19 Episode results for "Alcatraz Prison"

Jon Meacham on the Roots of the Capitol Riot

Kickass News

38:12 min | 5 months ago

Jon Meacham on the Roots of the Capitol Riot

"You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Hey folks. I wanna tell you about a podcast. That i think you'll love. It's called gastropod. It combines two of my favorite things science in history specifically the history of my third favorite thing. Actually maybe my first favorite thing food but really. It's about all the weird and wonderful things. You never knew about what you eat. Every day. the two hosts. Cynthia nikki are delightfully funny and charming and they take you on deep dives into the most curious topics like whether new york city bagels are better because of the water or what. Scientists are discovering about the link between diet and alzheimer's. Wanna know why. American mangoes tastes so bad. And what that has to do with george w bush and harley davidsons. They've got that covered to in fact one of their latest episodes is probably one of my new favorites. It's all about airplane food. Yes airplane food and it gets into how we went from fine dining in the skies to lukewarm mystery meat under tin foil and they also explored the science of how cabin pressure affects our sense of taste and how those little packets of nuts became such a staple of commercial air flight is just fascinating and i love it when i learned something but it feels like i'm just listening to someone. Tell a great story. that's gastropod pod. The new york times wired ted talks. They've all chosen. Gastropod is one of their favorite podcasts. It's one of my favorites too. So subscribe to gastro pod on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you like to listen. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem witch trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle d b cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. All told with cinematic music and sound design. Subscribe for free on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Hi. i'm ben. Mathis and welcome to kick ass news all of america or i should say. Most of america was shocked and horrified on january. Six twenty twenty one. When alt-right protesters violently invaded the us capital resulting in one hundred and forty injuries and five deaths. It was a crisis. Unlike anything in our history but it didn't come out of nowhere and it wasn't without warning as conspiracy theorists like cunanan spread like a virus through the republican party over the past five years many supporters of donald trump grew increasingly hostile and violent both in their speech and their actions but according to my guest today the roots of january sixth go much farther back than that and he delves into the history of this in his new podcast. Fate of fact today. I'm happy to welcome pulitzer prize. Winning author and historian. John meacham back to the show to discuss the rumblings of conservative discontent that back to the nixon and goldwater eras how. The gop succeeded in squelching. The john birch irs in the sixties but failed to control the radical elements in the party today and whether or not the republican party can be salvaged plus john shares. What is late friend. George h w bush thought of donald trump and the rise of the all right the future of cunanan and much more coming up with jon meacham in just a moment john h of his pulitzer prize winning biographer. He is a distinguished visiting professor at vanderbilt university. A contributing writer for the new york times book review and a fellow of the society of american historians. He is also. The host of the podcasts hoped through history and it was said and now he's out with a new five part documentary. Podcast called fate of fact. Jon meacham welcome back to the show. Thank you very much well. John adams famously said facts are stubborn things but you argue on your show that they're not stubborn as they used to be. And in fact you trace the evolution or devolution of truth and politics in fate of fact you certainly seem to be a man on a mission john. Wh what is your goal with this. Podcast facts are not as stubborn as adams would've wanted or as we would want them you know the the mission is pretty straightforward america's at our best when actually agree on the contours reality Weakened in disagree and should About what to do about that reality. But we spin off into chaos and even autocracy when half the country decides. They're not going to engage with the evidence of their is. But they're just gonna make stuff up and we're seeing that in the most vivid Most tangible Most ambient ways right now and so. My my goal here is not to argue for some crazy liberal departure in american history but to argue for. What is fundamentally in classical terms a conservative interpretation of the world which is as edmund. Burke had it you address reality as you find it You are skeptical of broad ranging reforms because of the law of unintended consequences but you at least dwell in an observable and fact-based universe. And i think we're in a place where it's not both sides could be the left could go nuts does afternoon In in anything can happen. But they haven't yet. And what i wanted to do in the gas is sort of gift people for what it's worth my interpretation of the road to january sex and this enduring cult of personality With the greeter more lago. Well there's also a sort of a paradox here in that. The people who most need to hear this message are the very people who are most likely to shut down and dismiss it out of hand so my question to you is. How do you reach them. Yeah no it's a fabulous question. I had an old a old civil rights reporter who are for newsweek magazine for a long time. was in birmingham gumri everywhere is based out of atlanta. And i ask him once back in the nineties you know. Did you have a political agenda when you're covering the movement and he said you didn't have to have an agenda you just tell them the damn truth in the truth bad enough so i understand the point. I also believe that you can't cuddle people. You can compromise with people but you can only compromise when you have a shared set of values and right now. There's not a shared set of values their value is the classic will to power right incentive structure is holding onto enough votes holding on long enough that they will once again be in control. Broadly of of the fate of the nation. What we have seen in new is that this is not a sixty forty country. It's really never been a sixty forty country They've only been three presidential elections since world. War two where a candidate got sixty percent of the vote three Nixon seventy two johnson and sixty four and reagan eighty four. We're much more a fifty one forty nine fifty to forty eight country which is where biden is And if it weren't for the voters georgia this would be a radically different conversation. A radically different moment. But that's okay right. I mean that's that's democracy democracy. Is that if you're on one side. And i'm on the other and you win on this given day. I accept that result and then i muster my forces to try to beat you the next day but i accept the rules of the game. The republican party under in the age of trump has decided that if the rules run against them. They won't simply play by those rules to win again. But they'll just dismiss them both through and so if you believe in the country and do you believe that we are fallen. Frail infallible right. We're we're we're all central. We're all Driven by appetite next season and the point of the country is to limit those appetites ambitions. Just enough just enough to see if we can get to the greatest good for the greatest number and right now we are but it is a genuine fifty fifty thing right beside with fifty one forty nine. Actually the united states senate is fifty fifty and so my fear. Is that if you explain how we got here. There could be those folks who say you know what that's right. Let's think big new enacted lincoln. Now you mentioned january. Sixth the insurrection at the capitol. And i'm curious if the idea of fact really began with that event or was this something that you were already thinking about. Now it's a great question It really was a i have. No original ideas likes five ideas maybe on a on a good day and so the and they find different forms Ed so i am not pretending. There's anything blindingly original here. But i believe fundamentally that richard hoffstetter the columbia story on. Who really is kind of depressing if you do what i do for a living. Because he's basically said everything and did it about sixty years ago seventy years ago. He wrote an essay in october. Nineteen sixty four called the paranoid style in american politics and it was about biz inherently dramatic grievance driven narrative that was largely on the right where it wasn't just that the communists were against it. Was that people in high places in the united states. Were active agents of the communist conspiracy. So you weren't. You didn't just disagree with harry truman. Truman was a communist agent. He didn't just disagree with george. Marshall george marshall was a communist agent. Eisenhower was that. And so it's the self fulfilling self aggrandizing narrative and mike. My theory of the case is that one of the reasons the republican party was primed to go along with the trump here was because they have felt betrayed by their champions going back to the second world war. So if you think about republican presidents right glide is an hour ends a twenty year drought for republicans. But what does he do. He functionally ratifies the new deal. He appoints earl war to be the chief justice of the united states. Who then gives you a series of supreme court cases that continue to inflame The conservative based in the country. You have richard nixon in nineteen sixty eight. Who runs one way. And then comes. In establishes the environmental protection agency proposes a guaranteed family income. Which nobody could do today. Biden couldn't do that. Today proposed a healthcare plan that was actually to the left of obamacare appoints. Four supreme court justices one of whom wrote the roe versus wade decision. Any goes to china thereby betraying this red china cold war mentality. gerald ford very much moderate President reagan comes in kind of the hero of the right cuts taxes. Dramatically in nineteen eighty-one but then raises them. Five more times and federal spending rises under reagan and reagan who acted with support of evangelical christians never seriously attempts to pass school prayer amendment to the constitution or ban abortion. George h w bush is the proto example of all this because he governed absolutely from the center got killed as he put it on dead meat. You know hot Gettysburg address like rhetoric in. George w bush will tell you that there's a line between tarp bailout of wall street in two thousand eight and trump and so you have all this gasoline on the floor and trump's match in nineteen sixty four is kind of where you begin the time line of this again. What is the significance of that year. Why not the beginning of mccarthyism in the forty s and fifty. Why then partly because of ronald reagan. On october twenty seventh Nineteen sixty four. Reagan goes into a tv studio in los angeles and delivers a half hour. Speech on barry goldwater be have. It is still called the speech. Capital t capital s Like the sermon. On the mount delivered by the g. theater host. And if you listen to the speech. Which i recommend it is incredibly well argued. It is full of mine numbing facts. There's this is a funny clip in the first episode. Where and i remember this and listen to it not long ago but it's just sixty eight percent of forty two percent of thirty to produce debate and you can disagree with it right you can say. No government has a role to play in the marketplace. But the son of a bitch. New is numbers right. Oh he did and he spent all those years. i mean. there's a a wonderful holiday detail here. He didn't like flying in the fifties and he made his living after his contract warners was out. He made his living Being a corporate spokesman for general electric. He did the sunday night. Show actually guy. Two theories about reagan That are not exactly scholarly. Ones not a theory Ronald reagan created opie. ron howard. ronnie. Howard did a guest shot on jeep theater the night before they were deciding who to cast and Ron howard actually credits. Reagan with having been really nice on the show things The other is that Bonanza won the cold war because g theater was in black. And white and bonanza was in color and so hawse drove reagan off the air and therefore we communism is dead. So that's again that hasn't been peer reviewed yet but sixty four couples. Bona reagan gives the speech Hostetter publishes his essay on the paranoid style and the nineteen sixty four was the launch of the great society and the highest recorded moment of public confidence in government. Seventy seven percent of americans in the fall of nineteen sixty four. Trust to the federal government's do the right thing some or most of the top that numbers now seventeen percent so we went from almost four out of five americans to fewer than about one in believing in government and so i think all these forces were kind of there where you have johnson working off the kennedy legacy saying as as as johnson could say in his Wonderful humble way these are the most important times to be living in since christ was born in bethlehem giving you some idea where johnson put himself on the on the spectrum and there are all sorts of reasons for that that writers watergate vietnam. There's iraq there's The growing gap in wages And wealth inequality many many reasons. But no major party nominated someone much less elected someone who was so overtly and consciously a purveyor of fake narrated and back to reagan's speech and also trump a reagan's approach approaches rather brilliant. Because the other thing about it that distinguishes it is. He explains his own philosophical journey from hollywood liberal to free market conservative we never that speech from donald trump. Donald trump made the exact same although some would say a little bit more cynical and calculated than philosophical and yet he never gave any explanation of how he went from new york liberal to an outright conservative. In what's worse nobody cared. Somebody said today. I mean there's a there's this thing floating around might have been on axios. There's a trump voter maybe at the utah convention. That booed mitt romney or the guy says trump doesn't lie. He just says things in if they don't seem to be true they must be true. I mean that we're talking. This is nineteen thirty stuff. And i've resisted that For a long time. Now i'm not so sure you know. Democracy is fragile. It hasn't endured this long anywhere else. It would be arrogant and stupid and a historical us to assume that. Always going to work out so we're living in a world where citizenship which should never be seasonal is a stress gas and it's a constant one and I i do think president biden is part of his popularity is that he's not front and center for us bud. The forces that led to january sticks may be receiving a bit but they're only receding from public view. They're not receding in reality. We have to be forever vigilant against the. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back with more when we return in just a minute. I travelled through time to tell you this. Almost everything that happens in politics today has happened before has been debated before maybe in slightly different forms on my history can beat up your politics podcast since two thousand six been examining the history behind today's politics and adding layers of context to some of today's debates and telling some great stories by bruce. Carlson join me. Www dot my history can beat up your politics dot com or wherever you get your podcasts apple podcasts. Wherever else you get your podcast from learn how george washington. An fdr supported vaccines in their time. Warren harding or ulysses grant took stands on racial justice. John and abigail adams of what they had to say about free speech and the press way brahim lincoln had to say on that. What were the conspiracy theories that had to be debated during the debate over the constitution. We're things more partisan or less partisan in the past how mitt romney's dad broke ranks with the gop. Liz cheney's dad. Got his start in politics coming from a democratic family and many many other great stories and another thing we're balanced on my history can beat up your politics so i promise you won't be infuriated even if you don't agree. We take a balanced approach so listen. Www dot my history can beat up your politics dot com. We have one goal on the investing for beginners podcast and that's to spread education and foundational investing knowledge to all listeners of all backgrounds. If you're looking for. I opening guest interviews simplistic breakdowns. On current market conditions ends teaching of investing concepts. You've come to the right place if you're anything like us. The hardest part of investing was getting started. And that's why we're here. The investing for beginners podcast is focused on laying the educational groundwork to teach you how to invest your money to work for you and allow you to jump start your financial independence journey. Subscribe to the investing for beginners. Podcast on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever. You're listening right now looking more broadly at this phenomenon of alternative facts and quote unquote. Fake news isn't that something that's always been there. I mean if we look back at the political campaigns of the nineteenth century and even some of the founding fathers there was always deliberate. Disinformation outright slander. Yellow journalism. Is it really any worse today. Or is it merely that it's just amplified and has a farther reach. There's a slight difference between high purposefully and active addiction. There is a difference with hyperbole disinformation and so one of the great examples. Seventeen ninety six was the first campaign where we wanted to make america. Great again And it was adams versus jefferson. You know jefferson was attacked a french atheist. Which seems kinda redundant Adams was attacked as a hermaphrodite. Which i've never understood So yeah sure The taliban politics is perennial. But you know. Abraham lincoln in eighteen sixty when he was running against stephen. Douglas stephen douglas in eighteen sixty did not say on the day after the election it was stolen and in fact there were plans to try to disrupt the electoral college count in eighteen. Sixty sixty one. In winfield scott the head of the military at the time shut it down so hyperbole division passion absolute we could spend the next five years talking about examples of that but in american president and the leader of one of the two major parties actively disseminating clearly false information and having that may shin be accepted as true by extraordinary number of otherwise seemingly. Normal americans is different. Well i wanna ask you that. Because whenever i talked to historians like yourself about current events. I'm always surprised that they can usually come up with a precedent or comparable moment in american history for just about anything even when it comes to a lot of this all right populism and some of the more shocking events of the trump presidency but i have thought really hard and i cannot come up with anything comparable to january. Sixth is that truly an unprecedented event. I think it's the sort of i think. The civil war is example where you had two competing visions of reality that we adjudicated on the battlefield. The confederate states the rebellious states had their own interpretation of religion. They had their own interpretation of the constitution. They had their own interpretation of race which was interestingly more widely shared in the north than we tend to remember And we had to adjudicate by the sore and so whenever you say since the civil war you need to be careful. And i say that with with all care You know. I can find all book about this. I can find all sorts of things where fdr in nineteen thirty three. There was a wall street plot to throw him out of the white house because he was changing capitalism. You had You along on. Lafayette w macarthur on the right. Fdr on the ninety to build of office was having a glass of whisky and going to bed like a good episcopalian and an aide came to him. And said mr president. If you succeed in solving the depression you'll honors our greatest president. But if you fail you'll go down. Our worst nasty are looked at him and said if i fail. I'll go down as our last. So i yeah i i can play that game all day. The distinction there though is that in nineteen thirty two and in one thousand nine hundred ninety six. Neither herbert hoover. Al land played the frumpy enroll. So it is different. You mentioned amplification. I do think the the social media the in some ways the cable world is a return to a nineteenth eighteenth nineteenth century partisan media. We do have a machinery of perpetual conflict. They just requires fuel and it doesn't matter the quality of the fuel it can be dr seuss. One day in insurrection. The next but nobody gets up at a cable network and said it looks the scans the headlines at five. Am and says you know what. There's nothing to talk about today. We're gonna take the day off. So everything comes at you at the same level and so i have a totally parenthetical thought for what. It's worth that one of the win. The archaeologists of our democracy go through everything someday one cause for the lack of trust and the rising temperature is gonna be that in. Were moving away from this generation but that the cable news world which is now almost entirely almost entirely partisan is presented in vernacular that we initially adopted in this country for the transmission of news. And not opinion. So you're you still have a person sitting at a desk with an image behind them talking into a camera and that may this shift from information to two more propaganda more in cities right right because they have a level of authority when they're in that position. You're you're absolutely right and one thing that keeps coming to me You mentioned the john. Birch irs several times in this podcast nineteen sixty four and how the republicans including towards herbert walker bush were able to drive the berkshires. Out of the party. Why were we so unsuccessful. Fifty years later because it became the party. That's my point. Is that the berkshires. Were still an element of the party in nineteen sixty and sixty four the party. I believe because of this narrative of grievance and betrayal and ironically victimhood right. the world is a raid against them. The berkshires believed the world was arrayed against them. There were they were few in number sixty years later. I believe that the experience of guns went mainstream. And i'm not. I don't look. I don't think anybody. I'm sitting in nashville tennessee. I i suspect the demography of of my street we are the blue dot. I would imagine Dvd's another one or two but not many You know. I've got a neighbor. Who added trump. Flag made You can imagine are barbecues fun But i'm not saying that they went you know when when jeb bush and rubio and those guys collapsed. I don't think they all sat there and said you know what this is a lot like. Eisenhower ratifying the new deal. I'm going to now. They're not the what were they thinking is. They didn't want hillary clinton raising their taxes or picking judges. They didn't really want biden too but enough of them came through. I think it's in this goes. You're you're good early question. Which is how do you reach people who don't want to be reached and to my mind. I'm not a doctor thankfully for everybody. But it's a little like a checkup and sometimes you get good. News is sometimes you get bad news. And sometimes they tell you to lose ten pounds. And sometimes i tell you we gotta do something about that. You know that mole or whatever sh and this is a diagnosis and it may be wrong. i'm often wrong but i think there's something here and what's in what i hope. Is that people who have become captive to their own narrative of grievance wile attacking. Everybody else who seems to be a great may be able to see that this cognitive dissonance his bad for the country. They profess to love and i love this country. You know i'm i'm not a. I'm not william. Lloyd garrison who burn the constitution in the eighteen fifties pact with the devil. I'm with frederick douglass. Who said there's there's no soil so congenial to grow the growth of reform that american soil. But if you believe that then you have to defend these principles and one of the principals is reason matters your friends with george h w bush. You spoke at his funeral. Also barbara bush's funeral wrote his biography. He really represented that dying breed of the republican party Did you ever speak with him about what happened to this country. In the past five years can you give us some insight into how he viewed all this. The president died in eighteen. He was kind of befuddled by trump I think the man little strong What i think it's safe to say that. He saw this as the flowering of the the plants. He had tried to prune starting in the sixties. And there's a wonderful diary entry. It's one of the episodes From eighty eight number pat robertson ran for president. Eighty eight and won a straw poll in michigan. I think i think did really well in iowa and there was a woman who walked up bush vice president united states Whether you agree or disagree with george bush was you know a nice man and she starts feeling at lot of lug staring at him and being unkind any he he gave. He dictated into his diary of the tape recorder. And he said later is just ugly ugly ugly and no compromise trying to take over the party You know his father had been in the senate from connecticut He really did believe that. The party had to represent different points of view He was right in the middle of it and to some extent is political The price he paid politically as president was that he has his son would later. Say under estimated the the rights wing of the party for bush senior. It's a complicated question. Obviously because of his sons right a he had a tour. But what i think is. And he's out there talking about immigration and george w bush couldn't get nominated today in that in a twenty year cycle twenty years as we wind down here. Then i have to ask is the gop lost causes it redeemable or are we headed to at three party system pretty soon. What do you think lost. 'cause we should have a separate conversation about that for united right. I the the problem. One of the structural issues in american politics is because of the electoral college. It is very hard for a third party to win a national election. Because if you can't win to seventy plus you end up in the house and therefore in bloomberg looked at this for fifteen years you could get you can probably get to forty percent Plurality you can't get the fifty one percent you need in the new electoral college. I think it would be good. His personal opinion. I think it'd be good for the country. If as happened in the nineteen sixties as as happened various points in our history if the various elements of the parties were to reassess themselves But you can't here's here's a a a fearsome note of fearful note. The republican party right now is going to have to lose a couple of more elections before they see any reason for right they because they don't believe sixty seventy percent of the republicans who answer polls say they don't believe they lost so until you lose a couple you can't be forced into a A reckoning rethinking. Which again and. I'm not i'm not even a democrat But it only took the democrats losing to elections eighty and eighty four to get them to rethink and then they lost eighty eight. But you know the the the democratic reorientation which is now seems to be more of a detour. given were or biden biden's governing but they respond is an interesting thing. They responded to reality right. Exactly right and right now you if you look at the house caucus if you look at some of these senators what you see is a bunch of folks who aren't interested in rethinking their physicians. They're interested in retaking the white house. And if you're sitting retaking as opposed to rethinking then you're on your on. A course that i suspect will end up being i hope will end up being dilatory to them because i think not because i disagree was every policy presented by a republican but i do disagree fundamentally with a party that has made itself a vehicle for a personality as opposed to vehicle for ideas. Yeah this whole mentality of tit for tat and owning the liberals really as a cancer in the conservative movement. But that's a conversation for another time. Once again jon meacham. New podcast is called fate of fact you can listen to new episodes every wednesday and go subscribe. Wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Jon meacham thanks for talking with me so much. Thanks again to jon. Meacham for coming on the podcast. Subscribe to his new podcast. Fate of fact on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you like to listen and follow him on twitter at at jon meacham or at jon meacham dot com if you enjoyed today's episode then subscri- been give us a five star rating on apple podcasts. Detailed reviews are the best way for new listeners. To discover the show follow us on facebook at at kick ass news pod and email me with your comments questions and suggestions at comments at kick ass news dot com kick ass. News is a part of the airwaves. Podcast network visit media dot com. Check out some of our other shows like food with mark pitman movie therapy investing for beginners. My history can beat up your politics in many other ways for now though. I'm ben mathis and thanks for listening to kick ass news. An airwave media podcast.

george h w bush jon meacham cunanan united states reagan republican party donald trump Cynthia nikki alzheimer's harley davidsons george w bush alcatraz prison chris wimmer President reagan society of american historians apple johnson newsweek magazine richard hoffstetter Marshall george marshall
The Great Escape From Alcatraz: Free Men or Fish Food? | 204

Hysteria 51

54:25 min | 1 year ago

The Great Escape From Alcatraz: Free Men or Fish Food? | 204

"The shape I'm disturbed. An. Incredible. I think we're going to do a weird area. You can't handle the. FROU, frou. This. Easy. Steriods. Fifty one. The truth is out there. Won't find detail coming for you look. One of them now. Welcome in hysteria nation to the podcast it's never been to the rock but. Not. Nailed it. You didn't nail anything. We're talking about Alcatraz. Uncle. Sam's Devil's island the actual rock. Oh, my bed. Here we go. What Is took. Sebok Goto timeout. We have an actual show to do here I know you are. But what am I I? I'm. Anyway as I was sane. We are hysteria fifty one, and we are broadcasting from the lower fourth dimension otherwise known as Chicago. I am your host John Go forth and tethered to me miles away with simply can and some string is my co host the infamous. Mr Brian Hand. Thanks, John Sounds like the robot exchange program is going. Well Yeah, that's one way to for me. I can't believe you agreed to it, but I will say timeout is a new one That's that's a you know I, I. Hadn't really tried that before House that hatch pull that off and how's it working? Well, it's actually pretty simple I set up. We got a new dishwasher and I set up the dishwasher box. Put it next to an electrical outlet, and then I cut a hole in it and put one of those hamster bottles filled it full of vodka and I gotta be honest thrown in there with some electricity and Inva- keeps them quiet. And here's the best part. Since it's so small. for He kinda likes it because it's the only place that he can get away from a French lady lady fingers bottle rockets happy. Fourth. Of July. Him. Tracks so. I mean Ben where do you send Kyle when he misbehaves I? Haven't figured that part out. Nothing. I do actually seems like a punishment. It's like it's like trying to punish a two year old. I for instance, I put him in a dark closet for forty eight hours literally two days and he just sing show tunes the entire time. What's nice to know how you punish your two year old. Who also sang show tunes and News Weird. Karma. Well that's awful on many levels if you're near the show though and wondering what all this was or is or what's going on the first robot who is in time out is conspiracy about. Built him to help produce a show. But as you can hear, he sucks at it and the higher pitched voice is conspiracy bots robot minion. His name is Kyle. He likes the forementioned cheese muffins and apparently show tunes and Ghana wash man right out of my hair hair. Right, South Pacific, enough other speaking smell John. Tonight, we're talking a real life story that was made into a Hollywood movie the escape from Alcatraz and I will say this real quick. So you didn't miss speak because. This podcast has been to the rocker at least some of us have producer and I toured there about two years ago now. Post its Eastwood Ing and Connery Caging but we were there in. So that kind of brings up in my mind a good question for you. What's your favorite movie based on a true story? Well, first and foremost I would like to continue to use Nicholas cage is a verb I. think that was a wonderful edition connery caging. On its own caging on. Yeah. Actually I guess the neck use, it might have been an adverb anyway. Wow yeah, it's it's a good question I man. I'm just happy to be having this conversation. I've I'm I'm back after missing a few weeks being I was. I was in an undisclosed location but I am happy to be back. I've always undisclosed location and how I live my life. And happy to be asked Inane questions by you. So I'm going to guardians of Galaxy I. think that was probably my favorite movie based on a true story. The throw the front of every movie based on a true story and In all seriousness, a man. I've a few I really liked pursuit of happiness that will smith flick. I was kind of one of those tear jerkers. But also like a story that you have hard time believing was a true story and yet has an awesome Indian sometimes true stories because if stories don't have great endings. And one did. I really liked I really liked Lincoln. I thought that was Daniel Day. Lewis is. Lincoln. Well, it's like everything. He accent like how does this man I? Don't get it he just becomes the the day you wake up you look in the mirror somebody else cut your Daniel Day. Lewis you have been your whole life. Is Good, he's really good. I would say, this does not have a happy and in, but I really liked the movie the social. Network. Well. And and you you've bought yourself some time for saying that because. Not that they're listening I promise. I won't be in. Jail by the end of the day because didn't enjoy absolute trembling someone put one of those captures or whatever they're called had click all the boxes that contain a lizard just had a couple lizards and then Mark Zuckerberg. Also okay. I'm going to throw one other out there. Admittedly they probably took some liberties. But it is based on a true story. Zack Snyder's three hundred. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of liberties. I'm sure that guy's hunch was not nearly as pronounced. The only one obviously otherwise it's spot on spot. I got one. I'm only going to give you want and because it's the one you should have rattled off. I'm ashamed of you for not and You've even went on a little adventure with said person fire in the sky that Travis. Walton? Story. About. All right. All right. All right. That's fair. That's fair I. Apologize for John, to you. I. Okay. So you know what's interesting. I should be about when I went through the exercise in my head. I wasn't even thinking of like forty and Oh, well, I didn't. I didn't say that they needed to me. I was just giving. You should because you didn't say travis other thing is speaking. When you talk to Travis, Travis is. Not The story then. He's he's like, Nope, didn't happen now. It's fun. Could make a movie man they made a movie. The the big difference being he doesn't. He doesn't go as not my movie. He's like, no, no, it was. It was fun making a movie. It has nothing to do what actually happened, but it was fun. He also said that the aliens look like middle-age Asian men and they took him to looking to. So not a spaceship but you know similarities nonetheless I feel like that last part you might made up well, it was a comfort in, but they're. Just. Try to keep changing the names to protect the innocent. All right. Let's let's get to. To prison. which is something that you're probably going to have to get used to one of these days. John's let's let's get started. If this robots as you're much longer, I think you're right You start tells the story, but let's start the end and we're going to tell you how we got there. Let's do it that way. All right. So the year twenty, twenty, nanking I. Starting at the end and it's not the end, but it's kind of the end of the well, certainly the end of the movie. If you haven't the story were until you today's the escape from Alcatraz and it's about it's about four inmates who planned three of which who actually escaped Alcatraz whether they were successful in making it to land is another question but they they did they were successful in so much is that they were successful in never being seen or heard from again or captured the end. Well kind of. Sort of yeah. It was June eleventh nineteen, sixty, two again four inmates planned the escape three actually made the escape. But before we get into what might or might not have happened to them from that point forward let's paint the picture of everything that led to this moment like a French lady as Kyle. So. Fervently set earlier. Painless. He was he was foreshadowing. Yeah. Give us a brief synapse this if you will, of Said, story John Alright alright alright. So the Alcatel. Alcatel. It sounds like something you'd get for indigestion true. By the way, there's a gay bar in carbondale where we both went to college called club Trasbourg tra- traffic was short for Alcatraz. Well they had sale all I didn't even think about they had. They had those jails upfront It was the not so good kept secret that all these already chicks went up there for drag nights on Sunday. So the gay bar on Sunday nights was full of like dudes from college try to pick up chicks. Which I'm sure. The the gay community was just thrilled with right a fraternity. I don't know man maybe who knows who knows well, yeah. Yeah. In person cons, pros and cons. Well Anyway Are College stories aside, the Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary was a maximum security federal prison on Alcatraz Island one and a quarter miles off the coast of San. Francisco have you been there? Have you seen it yourself oh? Yeah. Oh I have not I didn't take the ferry. Disaster it looks like it's just right there, and instead on the harbor you know had a seal squawking at me and staring right at. The Pierre were that restaurant right? There were the ski the seals are Ya now if you're on Alcatraz. Wanted a quarter miles looks like it's like thirty feet. It looks like you're right there i. mean literally it it's like you look at it quickly, I could swim that. Don't by the way don't you don't try just don't only triathlons until you can swim now kind of like kind of like the DB Cooper jumper that you can't do it and be like. Well, I own a plane one of those and we actually do it for experienced jumpers. Yeah. Guy Don't worry about it. One hundred and fifty nine dollars you can do it. Sorry. But I digress. Yeah. So Alcatraz the the actual prison opened the island already there of course, it opened in August of nineteen, thirty four and closed up shop in of nineteen, sixty three. So it was around for roughly thirty years. It was intended specifically for prisoners who continuously cause trouble at other federal prisons. It's Kinda. Thought of as a last resort prison if you will to hold the. Ability for these people were just sticking them there to die so to speak. Yeah. Sometimes Literal Sundays figuratively and sometimes literally. One of the reasons that this was their their ultimate destination was that it was thought to be inescapable. I I don't know that anyone ever claimed that the building itself was inescapable but the whole situation was inescapable because even if someone made it out of the prison, they wouldn't make it off the water. Actually has these weird currents were it draws in and out in and out, and so they're like, no one's going to be able to swim it. They will die. So almost one of the it had its own walls and barrier. So to speak if you don't know too much about currents, if you didn't take your ocean classes. What we're talking about are about like rivers under the top layer of water. So the top layer of water might even look you know relatively placid it's now currents or those things that are always full of the singing surfer turtles in movies if you've you've seen them. That was a that was finding Nemo drove remember the current under the water had the surfer turtles. I've never seen finding nemo well, good for you. I'm sure it's a ticking time bomb you have a child but when. I mean it's coming. So, in other words, it might look fine but like. Another way to think of it is when you're at the beach and they say, you know, don't go too far. There's a strong undertow to pull you under the kind of kind of like that. Yeah, and if you if you don't pay attention to Baywatch and you go out there, the Hobie cat may get caught on the jetty because of the current you're GONNA have to call in for help. But we digress. So the point being with it being surrounded by water, it being surrounded by trees water that I mean even if someone did escape and if they were stupid enough to jump in that water, they were going nowhere but to the MANGAM. it. Also, we mentioned it was somewhat notorious. It also didn't help that some of the most notorious criminals of the day spent some time in Alcatraz people like. Al Capone who we know here well here in Chicago. Machine Gun Kelly, which was Brent's nickname in highschool. Machine. Oh you're yeah. Well, true. You did have a lot of nicknames. James Bolger John, Stamos and Robert Stroud who you might not know that name of. But when he was at Alcatraz long enough he became known as the Byrd Man of trees they all did time there and I went down a little rabbit hole reading I always thought of the Birdman of Alcatraz is like this. I guess what I was probably actually thinking about what's the guy in Shashank? Had the bird. What was his name? And and it turns out the Birdman of Alcatraz was like a murderous asshole i. Didn't know not a good man not a good man actually ran down a flight of stairs shelvin a shiver of screwdriver or something and. Stabbed a guard or an inmate like seventeen times in their neck. Brooks Donald, as you're saying that Brooks brothers yeah. Rick I read. Yeah We're going to get the mail if I came up with that, and then there's the the mustache guy who had mouse. In the Green Mile. Yeah. Yeah. We we have been we have been raised to believe that these people who have animals or who are named after animals in prison are kindly souls and I'm here to tell you that is not the case, right? Right right and not just because of that. John The it had a bad reputation with well of course inmates. It had stay there but also a lot of elected officials even like the US Attorney General. Started attacking it back all the way in nineteen, thirty nine. Years later, Robert Kennedy submitted plans for replacement to a little known place called Mary Illinois which we actually went to college right outside of their and the Marion Federal Penitentiary speaking of Carbondale. Right. If you look at a map, the town, the town do east of Carbondale is Marian the Marion Federal Penitentiary there was there was a at that time, a supermax, Leah level six It is no longer it's still there but it's not the supermax anymore they've moved things around but yeah. Yeah and I think it's so many tales school even if you have been there the anger was justified because living conditions on on Alcatraz. WERE AWFUL YUP it's smaller cells the most prisons you'd know privacy most you couldn't get a job work was considered a luxury. You know. So most of the time you're not doing anything and prisoners were routinely thrown in the hole which I have been in for months at a time it's just a windowless black room and of go there they'll actually show you in there is spooky is really weird to just go into this room and chunk in your in there. I was going to ask for clarification I'm glad glad to know that you meant the the actual prison cell on Alcatraz not not like I was just in the whole for a while when I was doing my stint. Examples a bad boy. Yeah. Oh, and ironically though I will say this Alcatraz had a reputation for serving good food. Yeah. So some people actually volunteered to go there. Then they got them the like fuck me I made a mistake. The eggs are good. It's like it's like the folks that took the original discounts. They're offering cruise lines when the pandemic started right I mean you know the whole disease things happening but can you I mean you're talking about a balcony room for nine hundred bucks? Yeah. I needed to lose weight. What's a little diarrhea? Okay. We're GONNA BE STUCK in Japan for how long. I'm hearing I'm here in two months we'll need to reevaluate. WE'LL SEE A. When we say officials were angered by it that anger was justified a literally from a dollars and cents. Perspective. Nineteen. fifty-nine report indicated that the facility was over three times more expensive to run than the average American prison Most American. Prisons cost around three dollars or at the time `Cau- who would cost about three dollars per day per prisoner. Alcatraz was close to ten dollars per day per prisoner. It's a big difference. You know three times as much San Francisco's expensive town. You're you're paying for the view, the view. John. It sucks. It's expensive and people get murdered. It sounds like someone and I'm not point names maybe three or four people might wanNA scape that I don't know. So what do you say we dive in? ooh. Yeah to the escape next on hysteria fifty one, the food was good I especially like Brown ruled so much better than yellow gruel. Day. Wasn't there wasn't there. I mean. Least Imprison asked her. Hey sleepyhead why so sleepy? Oh, it's because your mattress is a bag of potatoes and scrap metal. You should try a nectar mattress with award winning layers of comfort. You can sleep easy knowing you got incredible value mattresses start at just four, hundred, ninety, nine dollars, and you get hundreds of dollars in accessories thrown in as well as three, hundred, sixty, five night home trial, and a forever warranty. GOLDEN NECTAR SLEEP DOT com. What is what is actually in Gruel I always I always thought gruel might be. Is it like it's when you're out of Lipson assholes. I thought it was grain based I always imagined like cornmeal. Warn me L. that's what I. Think of that would have been yellow gruel day I'm pretty sure Bram girl we're not gonNA get into it. Let's see about like. When it starts to pro. Laptop. Okay. Back, timeout. Before we talk about how they did it let's talk about who they were. The escape es. Yeah. So we said well three we'll. We'll tell you about him. The Most About all four. Well. Yeah. The first one though the one everyone kind of knows John tells you know we're GonNa talk about him, I. Frank Morris in everyone. Kind of knows him because Clint Eastwood Played Him in the movie and he was kind of the brains of the operation. So He's the one that people kinda go to when you think of the escapee's I and when we say brains of the operation, meet a couple of ways. I just that it was his idea and he you know he had a lot of the he had I came up with a lot of the ideas as to the how and the why in the where and the WHO and all of that. But also brains in the sense that. He was one of the smartest inmates at Alcatraz, his I Q tested out at one thirty three, which is above. Average Iq let's just shy of one forty. One forty is considered entry level genius. So that is. where? Where mine fell? Seventy six. No we're not talking about yours by. but he was in the one, thirty, three, it is reported. Put Him in the top two percent of of folks spending some time doing some time Alcatraz well, and he was so smart that he was convicted at age thirteen I crime and he built a huge rap sheet over the next twenty years of his life the brains he also wasn't a stranger to trying to escape prison right? Right right right. He had been at the Louisiana State Penn for awhile and he hooked it out of there on a ten year sentence for bank robbery. He wound up at Alcatraz because a year later they recaptured him because he was you guessed it committing burglary. So small hut. got. Him. Small and he was literally make it out of prison escape from prison. You made it. You've been on a year. Don't do the things that put you there and I don't I'm not I. don't even mean that ethically I mean that like Brag medically well, we should also state real quick though before he served time in Louisiana, he spent some time Atlanta penitentiary and that's GonNa come into play because the other two escapees that actually made it out were the Anglin brothers, John, and Clarence and not not too much of a different upbringing from him. Clarence was I breaking into service stations when he was just fourteen years old and of course, the brothers together began robbing banks and other places establishments as a team in the early fifties and tried to go and when they were close to ensure that no one was there because they actually didn't want to hurt anyone. They claim they only used a weapon wants during a bank heist and it was actually a toy gun they had so. that. Actually is the one though that that got them arrested and as the consolation prize, they did fifteen to twenty and they got to see a bunch of the penitentiary. So you know they got a tour of the land but they did go to a few no rewards for being good guys. I mean, they literally only did it with a toy gun. At it sends them away. Yeah and by away they went to Florida State Prison Leavenworth Federal and then Atlanta in then the repeated after several failed attempts to escape. The Atlanta facility they were transferred to Alcatraz. That's right. That's right and to be clear we keep saying Atlanta penitentiary. That was the name of it right now we're. We're not saying that generically like there was a jail somewhere in Atlanta somewhere in Atlanta that was the name of it Atlanta Penitentiary. And like Marian is Marion Federal Penitentiary. The name of doesn't have some it's not leavenworth or you know I'm in Blah Blah Blah the rack and Clinton Alcatraz. So that brings us to the final member of the team, Allen West well, he starred in a well known television series in the fifties called Batman. NOPE nope. I'm hearing that's incorrect. I does bad joke and I'm going to apologize to everybody listening. He is a mayor out in Rhode Island for a while to. Side the point. The difference between you and me Brent when I come up with a bad joke, I wound up apologizing for you dive in deeper. Let's right. I, I respect your game. So, spoiler alert on Allen West this is the guy we mentioned it did not get out what Moron why and how all of that later, he was a low level car thief. But he also tried to escape prison when he was in the Florida State Prison. That's what landed him in Alcatraz we wasn't. Murderous asshole or anything like that. But because he tried to escape another prison, they shipped him to Alcatraz. But don't forget. He'd also spent time with some of those boys at the Atlanta Penitentiary and you know what they say you do time together you don't do crime together. So they're thick as thieves man. Who said was that like rock steady and bebop Yes. All right. So we told you the players. Let's tell you the game the escape itself if you were if you're paying attention as we not so subtly referenced it. During our. Previous. Crime Stoppers segment. You might have noticed that all four of these guys spent time at the Atlanta penetentiary and. It's thought that their their escape from Alcatraz plan worked so well and stayed so quiet because they already had established like mutual trust from knowing each other in. Hotlanta lay. I mean the the plan kicked into gear when they they all came together, not just at Alcatraz but when they were assigned adjacent cells in December? Were others right next to one another prison? And Butts. And Thieving Butts. Anyway. The the basic plan burnt was simple. Simple plan, but took a lot a lot to execute. Morris. Noticed that the stone especially around the vent in his room, the stone like the wall was built of. I guess flaky I read in some places that supposition is that was due to the C. airbnb salinity in the air kind of. But. Regardless of the reason he found that it could be chiseled and so he improvised a tool and started widening the vent behind a sink. He made friends with a guy named rent in the yard read could get things. So he requested a rock hammered up. No. And, of course, he shared plan with with the three other guys and they all got they all went to town widening the vent and to do so they used a mix of old saw blades found around the prison. Rate to have laying around in a prison Li literally took the words out of my mouth. That's the way it's described i. think what really happened was they were taking old Saab ways that we're going to be discarded from the shop shanks. Shanks, are us a guy? I have a hard time imagining years walking around the yard and you're like Oh. Yeah. Daffodil, dandelions in old saw blade. I just don't think that's the way it worked but. Either way they did they were able to procure old saw blades along with metal spoons that they stole from the cafeteria and an electric drill. They actually made with an old vacuum cleaner that's pretty fucking handy rid there and they used all of that to do the do the chiseling. But. They had to make sure that no, one would notice said, chiseling. So they actually fashioned cardboard and painted it to look like stone that they were chiseling away. Then they took the the vents in kind of glued it to that cardboard and painted it to be the same color as the stone and basically whenever they weren't working on it. They put that kind of fake faith stone slash vent back in place and no one would notice and no see but they did not use posters of Rita Hayworth. Right. But let's go to take a lot more than just a way out of their sales to get out of that whole. Alcatraz. Prison and off of that rock. Is GonNa, take a lot more materials and don't forget. There's literally. Privacy, in these cells in the cells were tossed fairly routinely toss means they search him looking for contraband of anything. Sarah. So once the holes were wide enough to actually get through the guys would climb through on a nightly basis and they went on link these rummaging runs looking for stuff through the utility corridor and it's kind of cool if you go there. So the the cells back up to this little corridor that is just there's pipes in it. That's all it was was just a hollow in the wall that they'd left in case anyone ever had to go in there and right now if you go in, they haven't opened up and there's Plexiglas and you can look down there but they were just in this cool little area where they could climb all the way to the of the cell block because there's pipes in there and no, one would really know that they were in their secret room almost you know but it was the size of the whole cellblock. This is the part that gets me about this story like there is just all the square footage that known as paying attention to my one of my favorite parts of this story. This little unguarded area they like set up a clandestine workshop like literally a workshop to to put together all the stuff they needed for this escape, and so they were able to collect I this is shocking to me over fifty raincoats. Lots of other stone stolen and donated when I say donated donated by other inmates, materials, and using all of the stuff they constructed life preservers. And those were constructed based on A. design, the literally found in a magazine popular mechanics. Designed for. Your ever needed to get out of prison. Ever. Needed to get off an island that just happens to be. A Bay in San Francisco or you can find is fifty raincoats will follow us for more recipes. They also were able to fashion a six by fourteen rubber raft. Out of the same raincoats use the said steam pipes and would like fuse the seems together. So that it was watertight. Ella the stitched it, and then they they like I saw a number of documentaries where they tried to kind of recreate this and they would find that just gluing energised steaming. Like none of it worked and they had to do all of these things which begs the question like how many versions created for they found. One that they thought was see worthing. But. They even made paddles Brent from scrap wood and stolen screws from shop right I mean this is well thought out. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't an overnight thing. They took months to work this out until they're ready to do it. Yeah. They they really did and and finally when it was about time they even there was a ventilation shaft, they could they went up to the roof that climb. And they found a fan in their way. So they were when they when it was time to go they were GonNa get past that fan by removing the rivets holding in place and oh by the way we mentioned they even had a home made wrench. I saw I actually saw a picture of the homemade is pretty pretty. On display there and its Croat. Now it's crazy the stuff that they used or add, and they would work with like the our during the day that they'd play music for everyone and everyone would be loud and sing along because they knew they were doing in there to cover the noises. The Oh yeah. Yeah. That's true and Frank. Morris. Had even. Requested I guess you could request musical instruments during to play during music time and he had requested. Basically, an accordion it's called What is the name of it? It's like a smaller accordion I, forget what they're called. But think of an accordion only smaller and they fifty of you were yelling at your radio right now. But he would use that to cover up the sound play to cover up the sound. Later when they needed to to inflate the raft, they used same instrument to inflate the rat scrape Yup Yup. So they started this December of sixty one and they escaped June eleventh. said, they had six months and that is a longtime for no one to notice you're gone. They were also on top of that too because they would throw close in their bed and they made heads out of. Shift paper, Shay, and they went and scooped up pair and the used paint and made fake head. So it looked like they were in their beds at night. Yeah Yeah. So it's prison paper machine. They'd use whatever they could get their hands on to to make paper mcshea love prison one. I don't doubt that you do. In fact actually Brent. Have you ever have you seen those videos for pre prison burritos? No. All right. So here's the deal. I don't know I don't know enough about prison to know where why you have access to certain foodstuffs in not access to other foodstuffs. Pantley. Things like hot cheetos and other types of functions and other types of chips are pretty easy to get from I guess the commissary. Along with Rama noodles are also pretty easy to get at apparently, tortillas are too. So a prison burrito. Take it basically imagine. My my is going in the wrong spot. When you say there's ticket take a big bag of. Okay Yeah Gross. Take a big bag of hot cheetos, crunch it all up. Then crunch up a bag of another of your favorite flavored chips pour that in take Rama noodles. Poor steaming water or boiling water into the Bag Rama noodles to let them soften or poor that whole bat or pour the hot water into the the actual bigger bag has everything in it along with the seasoning from the Roman noodles and depending on which video you watch they have other. Similar ingredients like beef, Jerky and things that they've been able to procure. Put it all together. Let it sit for five minutes and kind of soak up the water some dripping. Then throw it inside of a Tortilla and you've got a prison break I have seen you and I make not far off of that in college. What's in the fridge Velveeta cheese have a packet of Rahman to flavor packets for some reason for. Some dehydrated onions. Onions okay. Breaking all work with that one chicken breast. We're GONNA we're. GonNa eat this. It'll make enough for everybody. Let's go. So, anyway, let's next cafeteria fifty one as our Nokia, we're who we Do a prison Burrito I'm down. We should I always have regular Doritos here I could probably use those. Yeah. Yeah. I've been looking for an excuse to go out and buy weirdly flavored chips. Let's do it. All right. So We mentioned the prison paper machine that they actually did fashion is made from a mixture I. I found here of soap toothpaste, concrete, dust, and toilet paper. As you said. Are we talking about are we talking about paper? Michelle, we talking about. They they paid the heads that you were talking about with paint from the maintenance shop, and as you mentioned the glued that hair on onto, they'd gone from the barber shop. Then they piled those towels in the clothing boom. You're in bed or something. Yeah. You hadn't hadn't snuck out well, very similarly they won't be able to think they end snuck out, and then we get to the night among nights June eleventh nineteen, sixty to nineteen, sixty two they've done all this prep for six months. It's time for their escape it's time to do it. And they jump into the service corridor that we we talked about and Morrison. England's climbed to the shaft of the roof in it is actually reported. The guards heard something they thought and they're just like I think was on the roof they broke out of the shaft that goes to the roof and they're like I'm not going to worry about it. You said shaft. I'd shut up see by the I think in in prison guard school they tell you. One really loud noise. That's unexpected. Ignore it's called Chimney Hill album someone else's problem. Yeah. Yes. He yet. That's that's exactly right but then their whole in the boat, the life preservers the paddles You know all this shit up they got a lot of stuff. They slide fifty feet down the kitchen vent pipe, and then they got all that shit over to twelve foot barbed wire fences. It's amazing. They didn't even fucking puncture the raft on those. Then once they're on the grounds they're looking around, they find a blind spot they already pointed or or figured out that the guard towers their searchlights didn't really hit it very much and it was on the northeast shoreline. So they get their he starts playing the tune of his people really really they inflate everything. With the non accordia right and then sometime after ten pm known is exactly sure they helped raft and they were never heard from again. Now you're saying Oh contraire. That was three of them. One happened to Allen West the fourth one. Well the semen used the the you know the was holding up the crumbling concrete around the vent it had re hardened and it kind of fell is really good contacts. And he couldn't get to the whole. So he's like fuck it any went back to bed. But he finally did get his grill removed he he he went up he saw they're already gone and he'd missed his boat and so to speak. So he literally just went back to bed like, oh, well, I mean isn't that amazing after all of that prep work and everything that had gone into that? Yeah. It takes you a little longer than than you expect and well I'm literally. Staring at freedom on top of the penitentiary I'm going to go back in and go to bed and this is or because of him, this is why we know so much about it because when they got out, he is bother out what's fucking matter and he told the whole story and they were able to crop rate it by going into the wall and finding all this stuff out. He let them know how they had made their escape. The the silver lining there of him being a A SNITCH is that's how we know the story. We're telling you today like no, exactly how it happened Oh by the way. Concertina. Tina wire. The No. The the the accordion like instrument was a concertina is a concertina wire zone thinking of or I looked it up. It looks like a smaller accordion. The wire is like barb wire, but with razors that's interesting that Oh no, no no I'm talking about the instrument that the Clint Eastwood would play to To get all the snakes off the island. Wait. No, that's story. Sorry. So our heroes are out in the grand abyss that is water. What happened did they make it to dry land? They wind up at the bottom of Davy Jones locker they get scooped up by aliens. The misery behind this gaze ongoing. And what have new them is all one hundred percents solve next on hysteria fifty-one. Or your money back, province. Maybe. I should get a concertina to play while we eat prison. Breda. That's probably smart. Are you seeing law and orders I am. speaking of law and order. What happened? Where are they? Where are they? where? I. Let's talk about what we know as fact. Okay that's done. Into shows. The escape wasn't discovered until the next morning given the escapees ample time to get away Well, that's assuming that everything else worked out the way it was supposed to there was an extensive search once they were found to be gone over the next ten days. I mean federal officials mill, they brought in some help from the military. And they did find lots of stuff from the escape. Let me. I'm going to quickly I'll give you a quick list of the stuff they found. A paddle floating about two hundred yards offshore of Angel Island Incidentally, they also found another paddle on top of the actual building the prison building. So, they. obviously never made it to the water they dropped along the way in roughly the same place in the water on the same day a wallet. Wrapped in plastic complete with names, addresses, and photos of England's friends and relatives was found. Then also shreds of raincoat material believed to be the remnants of the raft were found and that was found on a beach not far from Golden, gate bridge and a deflated life jacket made from the same material was found fifty yards off of Alcatraz island. So lots of debris. Yeah. But that is the extent of the physical evidence that was found in the water and surrounding areas. And the word was like well. You know and he talked the FBI and they're like they drown trying to escape don't get out of here the end and he got to think that's something of course, the world's going to say. They want to do exactly like done and over with we found who shot the president we found the men. You know you just want to get all these done and over with the US marshals were like We're GONNA leave this one open a in another thing that people talk about too is even maybe those photos of the England's friends and relatives bet might have been some they dropped knowing it might be caught because they weren't going there so it might actually throw off. Some that Morris came up with they thought there's so much like was done on purpose was on accident I. Mean it's also not crazy to think the flip side that they actually did drown. San Francisco Bay. It's a really perilous body of water. We were talking about earlier I basically think about it this way a bunch of seawater shoots in again a channel under the surface and then shoots back out to the ocean. Like it's. It's like the rapids under the regular water young and it could easily take a man under or. It could also easily grab a raft and shoot it out, and if you're in a rap shot see you're screwed. Yeah. Yeah. Tend to be that way. But let's say that they didn't drown. Or get the you know in the bay or get swept out to sea. Where were they going? What do you think? The the most conventional theory the one that has kinda stood the test of time as they were heading for Angel Island that was technically the closest landmass I bleeding another one is in this route in the study of the currents around there is the men might have been targeting Horseshoe Bay and maybe even throwing their paddles, etc the current so that they'd be discovered to throw the authorities off like we said, and then mythbusters even got in the game and posited the fellas targeted the Marin headlands because doing it themselves, they found that that was one of the easier ways to do it. So those are things they say, let's say the did make John. Let's the important thing they did. Where would they be or where are they are? What do you think happened? Well, okay. So no matter how they made it less. You know with the supposition that they did which we have no reason to believe that they didn't or did there's never been a body or anything like that. So saying that they died is just as. It is guessing period right just like saying they didn't period. That's right. That's right. There's well, there's one report of a body seen by up. By a boat that didn't report it for till days later. But. There's a s O that that body was seen near the Golden Gate Bridge five days before that, there had been a jumper off the Golden Gate Bridge. So. Older right. So a couple, a couple disparate pieces of information. There's a guy named Thomas can't. He's a former inmates go according to him the three head more help than previously believed from inside Alcatraz and had someone waiting for them on shore to take them to Mexico. some even said it was a girlfriend of Clarence Anglin and the whole Mexico or south of the border assuming that we're going to run into a lot the problem with Kim. Story like a lot of folks believe him I think he was the one that. The story was told to a reporter in Kent was paid two thousand dollars for the story. He'd said he'd never wanted to talk and then they said we'll pay you and he goes okay I'll tell you the story but the guards they did talk to a couple of guards and they're like, well, he's pretty straightforward older guards and stuff so. It's a fifty fifty, but you know he could be telling the truth. Then he got John Leroy. Kelly. Who Somehow wasn't a serial killer But he just sounds like every every serial killers name out there Ee This guy he dictated in a deathbed confession to his nurse. So take this as one of those but he claimed the him and his partner picked up three men in a boat and transport them to the Seattle Washington area area like that's where they went to in later under the guise of. you know transporting Blah Blah Blah. They went to Canada with them. You know the long story and then he says Kelly and his partner murdered the escapees to get the forty thousand dollars that their families had sent them. So he murdered them and had a lifelong guilt and. Just got it off his chest as he's dying to his nurse. So they made it but one of their instruments of escape actually came back to haunt them so that one seems you know I, guess you know. I guess, and this is something breath I'm just going to briefly mention this this this could be its own episode I think if you're interested in this story, you should go research this on your own I could've spent a lot more time here. The family of the England brothers have Christmas card after Christmas card and letter after letter of the mother received Mother's Day flowers every year for Friday and they say that these letters are from the Anglin brothers and they're all post escape obviously basically like, Hey, they were alive and well, and their maleness here's here's proof right nothing other than that in there has been some stuff that came forward and said I am here, I'm here I'm here this one could actually I feel in maybe we will do that as an update the England. Letters on their own that could be a fun part time. Yet there's a lot of them they did it come from here didn't come from there is that there handwriting the rest of their lives up till now it'd be like eighty, forty, five years old. They've still gotten things to make you think that but speaking of this does not discourage or despair that the next place is Brazil. So the reason we're talking about Brazil is they had a nephew, England's unnamed kin widener and he told Daily Mail online that he is certain his uncle's made it a South America and established families there they they married they had children everything. he's as a family always felt or he said, we always felt our uncle Robert new they survived then on his deathbed, it's kind of a recurring theme here he admitted to being in touch with them for the first twenty, five years after they escaped and. He. They were down there they they had new lives. This is an interesting one. He even has photos of them from the seventies like nineteen, seventy six is one of them. They're standing in front of two men standing by what could be Brazil. Gas In their kind on the side of the road, and there's a big mound of dirt it could be them. It could also do you just reminded me Wayne's world Brazil we're welcomed we're in Brazil. I'm in Brazil. Take me woke do Brasil No. But for real though like it could be there standing in front of the statue of Jesus. Here. I am in Rio Beautiful Brazil but. I'll tell you I though it's just one of those things where the are Kinda maybe you know the other one that is more of a tip off to the marshalls was Florida there was a lot of credible sightings of people who said they thought they might seem them and they gave details that may be the public didn't know lake they were left to right handed and what color their eyes were and what they sounded like and little details that. made the authorities think that they could have possibly been in Florida and even if they would have escaped to South America that might have been some where they went especially, if they wanted to see family and things like that, and all these were kind in the Florida or. Georgia area every time that they were noticed in those areas maybe near the Florida Georgia Line who You're say what you're saying is that the England brothers became bath salts. Nordine Zomba's the Florida man this is their families. If you get the chance you're in San Francisco area go it is a fun thing when you. On the island, it is not cheap by not in it is a over mile just to walk up hill to get to the prison. So bring your walking shoes and it's fun though it's a lot of fun and it is a beautiful beautiful island and you get the best view of San Francisco you ever GonNa see like I said at least I did it in it's a lot of fun. So go do it. And, you get to see all the the you know they have books and all the the leftover staff is on display and cabinets, sny cabinets but on display and shelves and stuff, it's really cool this one I'm not GonNa? Lie To you I. Know There they were criminals John. But I hope they got away I I hope they did it doesn't hurt to know that none of them were violent criminals or at least. That I'm aware of like it's easier to root for them knowing that they were just you know stick them you know. Got Syphilis No, that's Al. Capone. I thought you were just telling US something. I talk. Allen and it does I, do feel bad for Allan West. Literally the ultimate WOMP WOMP like shoot. Burrito. So Brent win despite what we want. Let's let's wrap it up here. What do you think happened? The US marshals really thought that they probably made it. I think without saying that they did. I think that they probably did make it the FBI and the the warden. Just let you know they wanna tell the the know the lame that they didn't. there's enough with the which we do. We should come back to, but the papers, the letters, the the family members, the anecdotal. Evidence things like that to think that they definitely at least some of them made it. I we are in agreement. So not only are we agreement Ding Ding Ding Ding My kid broke my bell. Only, we in agreement I am on the side of the. I think they one hundred percent made it and I. S to where they went I, don't even know that I care that like I didn't do enough research to really care Zil doesn't let them extra here unless they allow it. You know so. I'm fine with. Brazil sounds good as anywhere. But we I think they went on to live long healthy lives they could be in their eighties but some of there are a lot of their family immersive lived into their nineties there. It's very conceivable. They could still be alive today they could still be alive today. Yeah I. Think they made it and I just think they're smart enough to stay off the grid and finally what do you guys think though how do you think or what what are your thoughts? How can they tell us John? Goto hysteria nation it is our facebook discussion group where we talk about all of this and a whole lot more including prison burritos. Just go to facebook dot com and search hysteria nation FACEBOOK DOT com slash theory fifty-one pod. That's our facebook page patriots fan patriots dot com slash hysteria fifty one you can get shirts host Joan episode not smell John That's longer available. Do all sorts of things up all night and radio dramas voicemail seven, seven, three, six, six, nine, seven, two, seven, seven hopefully the next time we played they'll be a little bit better than the screaming and nonsense that see by played last time he played them but hey. You get what you asked for users pay for gas right? I mean again, letting conspiracy by. Do. Anything. That involves this podcast the result is going to be. It's on us. Also, if you forget any of this, there's one destination his theory of fifty one dot com I, guess, I should say to go fo- PEDIA DOT COM. So that's right. They'll both gets you there So yeah, if you're planning on escaping prison. Maybe, skip desert that night you know in just make sure you can wiggle through your little space. That's all I'm saying and don't use extra contact cement there you go with that Saddam and Brent Been John He's been conspiracy but stay woke meet sex. Album. That's it for another edition of Hysteria Fifty one, John Brennan Brent will be back next week with yet more of the unexplained, the unexplored and the unheard of. Oh if it's unheard of how would they know about it? Anyway if you want to suggest topic, give us your thoughts or just make fun of conspiracy votes. That's my favorite. Join us in our facebook discussion group hysteria nitrogen just log onto facebook and search hysteria nation, or you can always tweet us at hysteria fifty, one part. You've been listening to of four hundred shines.

Alcatraz James Bolger John John Brennan Brent San Francisco Frank Morris England Alcatraz Island Brazil Chicago Kyle Atlanta Penitentiary Atlanta US carbondale Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary FBI Al Capone Marion Federal Penitentiary Clint Eastwood Ghana
Divine Experience Day 8

PASTOR LUCY PAYNTER

12:49 min | Last month

Divine Experience Day 8

"Good morning and welcome. This is the painter we daily insights in today as we close the week with this episodes of divine experience and we shifted to the new. Testament's i wanna share about someone who also head one great divide experience. I don't know if you know. The alcatraz island in the middle of the chilly waters of california san francisco bay. The famous alcatraz prison was built on this island. This present house some of america's most difficult and dangerous criminals during its ears of operation from nine thousand nine hundred ninety four to nineteen six to three. It was a maximum security facility that once housed the likes of scarface capone in the madeira. Robot the bodman of alcatraz and this prison was nicknamed that rock and although at dozen attempts to escape were meet it is said that not emit. A successively escaped their oak in the story. You're going to cover today. Good to read about the postage on who was exiled. A net similar island called the island of patmos but most was like alcatraz in the roman empire it was at role key desolate island that was used as a prison island. It was i it without buzz. In by sending you to potholes a prosecutor could mitt on you the worst possible punishment without necessarily putin you to death. So we're going to reach today. The bible in revelation chapter one vessel nine to twenty. The bible says i john both your brother and companion in the tribulation in kingdom and patients of jesus christ was on the island but is called patmos for the word of god and for the of jesus christ i was in the spirit on the laws day and i had behind me a loud voice as over trumpet sane. I am the alpha in the omega the frost and the last in what you see right in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in asia to emphasise to smarter to pack moss to that la to saudis to philadelphia and to allow this year. Then i dont to see the voice that spoke with me in having tons i so seven golden lamps tons any in the midst of the seven lamps tons one like the son of man cloth with a government down to the feet and got it about the chest with a golden but he's hand and hair were white like wool as white as snow in his eyes like a flame of fire his feet while like fine breath as refined in finest and his voice as a sound of many wars he had in his right hand seven sisters out of his mouth when i shop two edged sword and his countenance was like the sun shining in its trend and when i saw him i fell at his feet of dead but he laid his right head on me and seed. Do not be afraid for. I am the fast on the last. I am he who leaves and was dead. And behold i am alive forevermore a man and i had the keys of hades end of debt right the things which you have seen and the things which are and the defense which will take place after this the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand in the seven good lamps stance the seven stars are the angels of the seven charges on the seven lamps towns which you saw at the seven charges. Wow this is indeed explicit. John was in itself in this lonely in desolate island cameras of barren rock out in the open sea. The island was uninhabited. Isolated in people seldom visited that place. It was a place of total isolation and it was a perfect place for punishment and banishment and sunday. John to patmos was the perfect way to silence the apostol. And you know in this text that we have just read. John refers to himself as i john. Both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patients of jesus christ. He was well known. Among the charges of asia minor. He shared a calm on hope. A on blessed with him. They were together in suffering in responsibility. He was a pair of them as they were apart of him in been separated from the body of christ been separated from this call support. Base must have taken his tall on him. You know. i always say that when you're going through tough staff. It is always important to have a base of support. Look john deere separated from the call support base but he said in this state of despair jones says i was in the spirit on the lord steam he received this unique revelation from the holy spirit at a time when then seemed to be at the arrest for him got lifted him the normal sense into a state where he could communicate to him into a state where could reveal himself to him. It's amazing to see how detailed john's description of the events that took place. No as i as a re through these i. I remember several songs that have been sung even in my language describing the voice a hard the fiends he so the words that were spoken to him in so much cloudy. You know you can imagine the scene as you read it. The voice he had was so clear it will strike came as a sound of a trumpet. It was so pathetically calculated that it it. Ah called in his wondering thoughts but it is solemnized his entire flame. It commanded his attention. Wow if he saw was so clear the bible says that the law totally what you see right in a book send it to the civic judges the events that took place during the revelation one never meant to be forgotten the ah testimony to his calling ah testimony to his encounter with a lot. In so like jacob was left with a limp a lasting evidence of his divine experience. John was told to record the fiends he nest in szeged to the seven churches because beyond being a testimony to himself the testimony of john. On what is so was important for the empowerment of the whole church a man. I'm just gonna post there and just mention this sabal of the divine experiences of the law allows us to count the not just for us the for the edification of the body. John says the head. I turned want to see the voice that spoke with me in when i saw him i fell at his feet as dead but he laid his right hand on me saying do not be afraid on the fast and the last i'm he leaves was dead. And behold i'm alive forevermore. I try to imagine how. John must felt seeing jesus again their head been. They had been there had been prosecution. Some of them had been killed. Their authorities had gone to such lengths to discourage them to stop them from spreading the gospel. And then he was jesus in passing the very life source of the chat. His voice might have been different now. John remember jesus right when the authorities thought they had finally found a way to break john spirit jesus appeared to him in paso he renewed his faith he renewed his strength. He give john that much needed reassures. The was a plant. There was no reason to be afraid because she's never figure of divine glory. That was looking back at daniel. Daniel seven thirteen fourteen. You can read at your own time. He was right there with him in his splendor in authority john in this destitute isolation realized that he was not alone. John had known jesus for over three years when he was in the world he had been with him literally every day. But nothing could have prepared for this kind of an experience. He had been there during the transfiguration that we talked about in had seen jesus in his glory but this was different. This was the reason. Christ you know when god does his walking us it is not a one time event. His walk is continuous. He is ever walk into perfect us. The fast divide experienced during transfiguration was important to reassure the disciples of the authority and identity of jesus but a second experience was needed for the on going through and god did not hesitate to plead sent this experience to john for the sake of the church and it is my prayer today as we come to the close of the week with the law gratis. This kind of visitation movie experience. This kind of renew when we are at a place where we feel like. There's no escape when we feel like. We are trapped in situations. Too difficult for us milan. Lift us into a highest that we are in today as ted where we can experience his glory a plethora he could communicate with us may gave us an experience that we will be imprinted in our hats long enough to last us through whatever difficult situation we may be going through in jesus name i pray. A man amen. This is pasta. Lucy painter with your daily inside in this divine experience. Day eight shallow.

california san francisco bay role key desolate island patmos John john desolate island alcatraz island patmos asia putin moss philadelphia america john deere la John remember jesus john spirit jesus jones jacob paso
B&T Extra: The Nudist Cruise

The BOB & TOM Show Free Podcast

19:27 min | Last month

B&T Extra: The Nudist Cruise

"Do you own or rent your home. Sure you do. And i'll bet it can be hard work you know what's easy bundling policies with geico geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's or renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to geico dot com. Get a quote and see how much you could save. It's geico easy. Visit geico dot com. Today that's geiko dot com welcome back. It's another bob and tom extra. This is christopher. Not only is the bob and tom show live every weekday morning. But every afternoon we'll give you a little extra in case you missed anything on the big show today. Cornhole stupid world record some sports history at a crews on the way right after this species species species come back and grow strong. I'm glad one creature creature pitchers endangered no long. I wanna fry up any kernels recipe still illegal. It shouldn't be. i need to know. One taes of bri legal curiosity. I killed the cat. Who wasn't that tasty. Frankly on company dolphin. Free eagles sad at subway did their ball. And for those of you always need something extra here you go. This is bob and tom extra right now. If you gone over there well. I've got this world around alba and here's where we are kids. This isn't a world record. It's an attempt at world. Okay all right. The game that has caused countless backyard fistfights. That's right cornhole. They're attempting to set the record for the longest cornhole game ever. Oh the longest cornhole. I believe that was set in alcatraz prison. Nineteen sixty two spike johnson and johnson. They called him and took on ricky loose s. Right right wing says no now. I just wanted to call. His nickname was loose. F- yeah i i read it. Ron louis sorry louise sas. According to news channel nebraska. Somebody makes them news please. The game at the lord central catholic gymnasium began at eight. Am on july twenty second and was intended to go beyond noon the following day so it's a catholic game of course it's long the time to. I'm sorry their weddings void. Their brief. aren't they you kidding me. The ceremony sometimes longer long long ceremony. It was joke was Ever been new catholic wedding I got a wrap this up. I gotta get back mine and see because it's a long Central catholic gymnasium started. Adm july twenty time to be twenty six hours. Thirteen minutes dot daru posted on facebook that they had played past the official world record. And we're going to go as long as they could. It's not the last line in this story. You look infuriated. It is not yet clear how long they played four pretty easy to find out where to go several ride. You may recall. We had no communication with the outside world. I grabs. if you've got here earlier. You could have done your homework. I woke up. This morning realized i hadn't spoken for two days saturday and sunday. Wait a minute what did you what did you say i woke up this morning and then i realized i had spent the last two days quiet inside. We didn't speak to anyone days. Do not have a dog now. Had a dog you'd be walking up and doing the usual dog stuff didn't bother you or are you happy with. That's why did you notice in the green room this morning you. You're the first person i saw. I thought did. I piss him off voice two days. Oh i thought. I'd made some mistake again and self-congratulatory things well done really really microwave that meal. You didn't sing along did anything. I didn't know well so it was just one of those weekend. Didn't speak dog on the phone. Nothing so I'm sorry we're glad you're talking now talking about cornhole by the way cornhole by the way the easiest way to get through a corn maze no after the cornhole cut a hole right there and get right up. So they've broken. The record is up two days ago. They're still going. This is from upi. He's serious they're still in business so it's one guy one guy at least two i mean. Excuse me it's it's more than one set of people. It looks like a standard game of two guys. At each end organizers of world record attempt for the logs game cornhole in nebraska announced that they met their goal last friday. And they're still going okay. Andy fidora's you've never seen the half the time to be twenty six hours thirteen minutes so they'd be support team yes they have beaten that unofficial there already discussing attempting to burke another world record next year by tempting to hold the world's largest cornhole tournament all right number teams one hundred sixty seven. Well that doesn't that seems. Greg let your is a fun game. I enjoy it off. His fights a lot of drinking guys must be really hung over a lot of overhand corn. Back the cornhole bag throwing and that's sports out dow. You can't throw you off like that. I had no idea that was sports telling you you know we always end with a world record. We do whatever you do usually schwarzen- history with his world record and something about where we didn't have a history we didn't by god you're right hang. What do we don't have to watch you. Read it for the first about now. Let's see what will happen bell on this day in nineteen thirty. three joe. dimaggio ended his sixty one game hitting streak in the pacific coast league. Did you know that. Tom did not fifty six game hitting streak in the majors. The pedal sixty one game hitting streak and the pickle pacific coast league nineteen thirty nine on this day. Yankee catcher bill dickey it's three consecutive home runs and then went on to invent the dickie. The fashion accents accessory the no man's wardrobe complete without the fabulous dickey to people even know what a dickey is anymore. Well they better possibly from christopher dickey day we can have these guys come in and have celebrate that well everyday those dicky's workshirt dickey. Where's dickie's shortly. Oh yeah anything else on the state of injuries and on this day in one thousand nine forty eight the babe ruth story premier. Oh god starring william bendix getting. It's one of the worst. One of the worst sports movies ever made. Bay berth to play babe ruth babe ruth was at the premiere in nineteen forty eight. He was there. But it was the babes. Last public appear failing health. Looking good for he died coughed all the way through. If sieff is i took him what he there's a famous season he missed the number of games and they think that may have been venereal. Disease related very serious untreated cause blindness history. It's been the the movie is so bad it's great. He's they showed the babe drinking and it's always milk. And then they william bendix looks about seventy and he's playing the bass teenager hit his to some bad bad filmmaking somewhat They took some liberties with the store on this day in nineteen seventy cincinnati reds legendary catcher. My boy johnny bench hit three consecutive home runs off phillies pitcher. Steve carlton all right amazing. Let's leave him in there for one man was when they yeah Let's see on this day. Nineteen eighty-four expos. Pete rose tied ty cobb with his three thousand five hundred second single item that resume until the expos. I pay more human. Can't go there now. Gary carter there are no more nor expos. Oh so much. I know about baseball but still a better name. The guardians they are. That is a better name was suppose at expo. Sixty seven number montreal in nineteen ninety-two nolan ryan struck out his one hundredth batter for the twenty third consecutive season. Amazing very good. And that's that's sports. Okay thank you very much now. You go whatever you do. Good stuff always be nice. Work always be. Do you own or rent your home. Sure you do. And i'll bet it can be hard work you know what easy bundling policies with geico geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's or renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to geico dot com. Get a quote and see how much you could save. It's gyco easy visit. Geico dot com. Today that's geiko dot com. This is something that might interest. You tick a georgia. The georgia man has been named the winner of the ernest. Hemingway look alike contest in key. West house he sixty three year olds. Zach taylor beat out a hundred and thirty six other entrance at sloppy joe's bar the saloon where the legendary author frequently drank competing in the contest is a family affair for taylor on. Ironically he lost He came in fourth in the zachary. Taylor Look daddy wasn't he president. Yes i've always. Liked the joe that i stand father read. Whatever you're reading. no. I'm trying to find the winner in two thousand as well as resembling hemingway taylor said he shares the nobel prize winning authors passion for fishing hunting. And the life of an outdoorsman mobile. Yeah you also has one of those weird hats that hemingway with the giant bill. A picture of him. They couldn't have taken a worse. It's a picture of him from the top and it's all forehead this picture you can you. It's terrible they gotta be another worst picture. Chick is a. I think will win. It's dead on year next year. Next is my year twenty two. We've heard it all okay. That was somebody else. Okay yeah these these guys all look very much very. Why don't they have like themed. Hemingway themed meals at sloppy joe's. I've got the menu here and it's all like potato beat their potato fries mac and cheese by. I mean it's just like oh. I have the eggs. The sunnyside also rises. She had taken out on each side new yorker the slop. What is this They've got to have a sloppy seconds. Right this is a very bad choice. That here's all of. This is one of the least. The bad choice look at the sky doesn't look anything like him in all these other guys look just like him. The it's a very poor choice Oh wait a minute. Here's some specialty drinks here. You go pat. O the old man in the seabreeze. That's a good one. Papas papas painkiller. Shark attack the category three hurricane Seven day vacation during this. You're out seven days a week. Wow i rarely agree with you. Tom bye have to agree with you. I can't believe they made him the winner. There's the rest of the guys look a lot more like the classic hemingway than this guy's got doesn't have enough hair on top they but they have a sloppy re warheads all greasy. And it's probably hot there before had. I like the halloween version of hemingway content. What's that Post shotgun to the face. be realistic. All grease what else you got over there kristie. What else do we have. A medical case study revealed. A righty ended man's doesn't matter that he's right or left this is. I thought the same thing. This is a weird story anyway but they emphasize the fact that he's a righty. Yeah he is. Masturbation apparently lead to a stroke yard support by doctors at a graduate school of medicine in japan and a city. I'm not gonna try to pronounce detailed the case of a patient who is in the habit of pleasure in himself. Several times a day and specified. He was right handed. He went to the hospital after orgasm ing and experiencing a sudden severe headache that was followed by intense vomiting after the organ of course to the hospital a cat scan showed a life threatening type of stroke caused by bleeding into the space surrounding the brain. Wow researchers noted that masturbation causes an increase in heart rate blood pressure and non adrenaline plasma levels. Which could contribute to an increased risk of splitting a blood vessel in the brain that would result in a hemorrhagic stroke yards. The patient was treated and did make a full recovery. That's the good news if you'd like to read more and you're scared to death. Now guys check out journal struck and quite stroke journal of stroke and cerebrovascular diseases. Get my house today. yeah. I forgot that they'll be passing this out every boy school. Forget the salt peter. Remember going blind. You're not gonna go blonde come and go at the same time. Gentlemen leave yourself alone william please. I demand to know tonight the last time you gives a real date. Excuse me we're not doing. This is april nine. All right nine twenty twenty. This doesn't dorming or happen to anyone or is it just. Could this have happened during traditional intercourse. Right okay this no intercourse is intercourse. You don't mix stuff in with it. No don't care your this business of having there this incident of having a stroke after sexual activity in this case it seems to indicate that it was just from this man. The self pleasure ing just do it till you hit my brain bleed. I'm sorry kristie. Will you mentioned a nudist. And they all had their anniversary. Dinner interrupted by boatful of nudist. Loved that band devon live who sells also like a band. Reports john would see would yachts was dining with his wife at the river. Exe cafe on wood when a cruise ship operated by the nudist. Torbay son club passed by renewed newness if his wife would do none of these people were nudist would said the reaction of the other restaurant patrons was mostly of amusement and concern for their health as the wind was getting up. What that was a quote. Luckily that was the only thing that was the only thing that was the annual expo nude crews allows local nudists to party onboard hired pleasure boat while also taking in the views of the estuary. Your here's a picture of. I saw the picture of it. You can't really see. Yeah well it's lucky with the previous story. We had lucky. That guy wasn't on board said. The master master made himself stroke If he was on board them by definition. It would have been a tugboat that. You make that noise. Oh it's a. It's a feverish. Excuse me there are things. I can't on here. Therefore let us not pursue this Jeers phrases like get it. Daddy finish this seen picture this yes. It was a picture of this boat going by and all the boats go by people. Stand there at the railway. The the rail waving were they are the couple. Join our anniversary. This couple's eating a whatever riverside restaurant in this big boat goes by and it's full of a bunch of newbies. Religion lives on o- of a ship full of newbies. Ooh that was not those see with no pants on the erection of feral again. It's a tugboat. That's it for another. Bob and tom show extra. Catch us on. Itunes google play and stitcher for bob and tom extra. This is christopher. Take care of your body.

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The Birdman of Alcatraz

Murder and Mystery in the Last Frontier

24:27 min | 8 months ago

The Birdman of Alcatraz

"From the wilderness of kodiak island alaska. This is murder and mystery in the last frontier. With your host robin bear field in a land full of peril and vicious animals. Humans are the most dangerous predators of all. You might not associate the birdman of alcatraz with alaska but robert stroud often called the byrd man once lived in alaska and after murdering a man in juneau bar. He spent the rest of his life fifty four years in prison. He was in solitary confinement for forty two of those years. Stroud is one of alaska's most famous criminals. And if you're like me you will find his story fascinating. Welcome to murder and mystery in the last frontier. I'm your host robin bear field. And i'm broadcasting. From the heart of the kodiak national wildlife refuge on kodiak island in alaska stories change and with the distance of time historical characters often appear more benevolent and likable than they were in real life. I would love to tell you. A tale about a man who received two harshest sentence for manslaughter and was then. Mistreated imprison and while this version of the story has been told by some biographers other historians do not paint robert stroud in such a favorable light. I'll try to relate both sides of his story and you can decide if robert stroud should have been released from prison at some point in his life or if robert stroud was a dangerous psychopath who belonged behind bars. Some of you may even feel stroud should have been hanged when prison. Officials ordered gallows built outside his prison cell in leavenworth. What has not been debated over the years. Though is that robert stroud had a near genius. I q and his research and writings and advanced. The field of ornithology robert stroud was born in eighteen ninety in seattle. His father was violent and abusive and he removed robert from school when he was only in the third grade at age. Thirteen robert ran away to become a hobo riding freight trains around the country. He returned to seattle when he was sixteen and worked installing electrical fixtures he dreamed of alaska and freedom from his abusive father and nineteen o eight at age eighteen. He signed on with a section gang headed to qatar alaska to build a railroad in a saloon cordova alaska robert mit kitty. O'brien a prostitute. Who was twice his age depending on whose version of robert stroud story. You believe stroud fell in love with kitty when she nursed him back to health after a bout with pneumonia or stroud became kitties pimp. Of course the two versions aren't mutually exclusive. He could have been in love with her and her pimp but whatever their real feelings were for each other. The two became a pair and in the winter of nineteen thousand nine. they moved to juneau alaska in juneau. Robert ran into charlie. Dahmer an old friend dahmer invited robert and kitty to his cabin for drinks and a meal and during the evening when robert left to run a quick errand. Charlie attacked kitty and stole her it. When robert returned to the cabin dahmer was gone. And kitty had two black eyes and a red ring around her neck where dahmer had ripped off her gold chain and lock it again. According to which version of the story you believe stroud grew furious when he saw kitty either because dahmer had attack. The woman stroud loved or because dahmer had neglected to pay strauss's prostitute for sex. No matter which version you favor strauss response to dahmer's actions represents a pattern of behavior which drought repeatedly displayed during his life. Whenever robert stroud felt someone had wronged him in any way he reacted violently in this case. Stroud either hunted down dahmer and shot and killed him or stroud confronted. Dahmer verbally dumb. Marie acted aggressively and stroud shot and killed him. In self-defence stroud immediately went to police headquarters and confessed to murdering dahmer. Telling the police he. Dahmer had argued over money since alaska was not yet a state. Stroud was tried in a federal court. His mother hired a leading. Juno attorney to defend her son but the attorney was appointed to a federal judgeship shortly before. The trial began strauss. Replacement attorney urged drought to plead guilty to manslaughter convincing stroud. He would only have to serve two to three years in prison if he pled guilty. Unfortunately for stroud though his sentence was determined by federal judge e cushman a judge who had recently arrived in alaska and was determined to bring law and order to the territory. Cushman gave straub the maximum sentence of twelve years for his crime and sent stroud to the federal penitentiary at mcneil island in washington state. Stroud left alaska in nineteen o nine when he was nineteen years old never to return. Stroud was a sullen angry prisoner and was considered extremely dangerous. He remained in contact with kitty for a while. She sent him weekly letters and even visited him once but not long after her visit her letter stopped years later. Stroud learned. His family had asked the warden to block kitties letters because they believed it was her fault. He murdered dahmer and was sent to prison. Stroud was assigned to work in the prison kitchen at mcneil island when another inmate accused him of stealing food. Stroud was denied. Parole in retaliation stroud stabbed. The inmate in the shoulder with a paring knife. Stroud also assaulted a hospital. Orderly who reported stroud for threatening him unless the orderly gave stroud morphine due to this violent behavior six months were added to his sentence in nineteen. Sixteen stroud was transferred to a maximum security prison in leavenworth kansas. He only had a third grade education but stroud had a brilliant mind. He enrolled in a ten month. Correspondence course in higher mathematics and finished the course in only four months next. He took courses in astronomy and structural engineering and got an a in each class. He read every scientific book he could find and continue to take advanced mathematics and religion courses s mind expanded with his new knowledge his hatred for the guards who kept him prisoner also grew six months. After arriving at leavenworth strauss's eighteen year old brother from juno. Alaska travel to kansas to visit him the night before the planned visit a guard named andrew. Turner caught stroud whispering to a fellow prisoner. After lights out when the prisoners were supposed to remain silent instead of letting the minor infraction pass. Turner reported stroud to his superiors and strauss visitation. Privileges were revoked. Stroud was furious and confronted the guard in the cafeteria the next day when the guard raised a club to hit him. Stroud sunk a six inch. Shift in the guard's chest. Killing him instantly on may second nineteen sixteen. Stroud was convicted of the first degree murder of andrew turner and was sentenced to hang in an appeal. The conviction was nullified in may nineteen seventeen. He was retried and again was found guilty of first degree murder but this time he received a life sentence solicitor general. John w davis confessed. The prosecution made in the second trial. he hoped. The court awarded stroud another trial. The new jury might give stroud the death penalty in may one thousand nine hundred. Eighteen stroud was tried for the third time and this time he was again sentenced to death by hanging. Let me take a short break. Are you searching for new podcast and listen to well. Don't quit listening to mind. But i want to introduce you to a funny guy and his fascinating podcast. My fellow citizens Earth is in the middle of a crisis plunging deeper into chaos. No afc feel pain angela. Loss we can't stand idly by and let this happen. We must rise up in. Sorry damn it well. This is awkward. Hi my name is josh shell. And i'm the host of the lead started cult podcast where each episode myself. Some guests take a look at different cults from around the world for educational purposes. Only definitely not to start our own called join me every other week as we break down. Dangerous religious cults lyrical extremist groups and every other kinda called inbetween. Should i apologize for the terrible southern accent. Subscribe and listened to. Let's start call anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Stroud waited in solitary confinement and watched from the small window of his cell while workers built the gallows where he was scheduled to meet his fate. Strides mother appealed to president woodrow wilson and his wife and eight days before the planned execution. The president commuted stroud sentence to life in prison in solitary confinement. The sentence pleased stroud who liked to be alone where he was free to study and read one day. In june nineteen twenty stroud found a nest of sparrows that have been blown out of a tree and into the exercise yard of the prison. He nursed the birds back to health and raise them to adulthood. Prisoners were sometimes allowed to buy canaries as pets and stroud began collecting birds raising them and then selling the canaries to help support his mother who had moved to kansas to be near him. A new war net leavenworth made it his mission to turn leavenworth into a progressive rehabilitation. Penetentiary the warden was intrigued by stroud and his canaries and provided stroud with cages chemicals and equipment to study the birds. He also gave strauss's stationary to help him. Further his ornithological studies during his. Stay at leavenworth. Stroud raised nearly three hundred canaries and wrote to scientific books on bird diseases. The first book. The diseases of canaries was published in nineteen thirty three and a later edition with updated information. Stroud 's digest on the diseases. Birds was published in nineteen forty. Three stroud found a cure for the hemorrhagic septicemia family of diseases and birds and gain respect in the field of ornithology strauss canary business. Overwhelm the prison staff. Each piece of mail sent to or from the prison had to be read by a prison official and strauss sent and received so many letters. The prison had a higher fulltime secretary. Just read his mail also. He allowed his canaries to fly around his cell so his cell was filthy. When officials tried to force drought to cease his canary business della mae jones. A bird researcher from indiana protested and managed to obtain fifty thousand signatures on a petition to allow stroud to continue to operate his business. She sent the petition to president. Herbert hoover and stroud was not only allowed to keep his birds but he was given an extra cell in which to house them. In nineteen thirty-one one della mae jones moved to leavenworth kansas and started a business with stroud to sell his bird medicine. Prison officials were anxious to get rid of stroud and the problems he created with his business and his birds but strout learned. Kansas law prohibited married prisoners from being transferred out of the state so he married della may by proxy. This move in. Pierre created not only prison officials but also stroud mother who moved away from leavenworth and refused to talk to her son for the rest of her life. Stroud continued his business for a few years. But when prison officials discovered stroud making alcohol with some of the lab equipment they'd provided for him they finally had the ammunition they needed to shutdown strauss's business and move him to another prison on december. Nineteenth nineteen forty two stroud was transferred to alcatraz federal penitentiary a maximum security prison on an island off the coast of san francisco. California prison officials did not tell stroud they were transferring him until a few minutes before it was time for him to leave since alcatraz did not allow prisoners to have pets. Stroudsburg and equipment were sent to his brother. Alcatraz prison california built on a small rocky island in the bay of san francisco operated from the time of the us civil war in the eighteen sixties until it was closed in nineteen sixty three. The islands remote location made it the perfect site for prison but this location also made it expensive to maintain and the cost of maintenance finally led to its closure during the years it operated alcatraz house many infamous prisoners including al capone and machine gun kelly but the one prisoner whose nickname is synonymous with the prison is the birdman of alcatraz at alcatraz stroud spent six years in solitary confinement and another eleven years segregated in the hospital ward. A psychiatrist at alcatraz diagnosed drought as a psychopath with an i q of one hundred and thirty four confirming his superior intelligence stroud was considered an extremely dangerous prisoner and was described by inmates and guards as an aggressive homosexual with a bad temper today he probably would be categorized as a sexual predator. As he aged strauss's temper mellowed and jailers considered him less of a threat he loved birds and because of his contributions to the field of ornithology he had a following of thousands of bird breeders and poultry raisers campaign for his release from prison since drought had been convicted of killing a federal officer though his sentence for life in solitary confinement was never lifted in nineteen fifty nine due to his failing health. Stroud was transferred to the medical center for federal prisoners in springfield missouri. He died on november twenty first nineteen sixty three at the age of seventy three. He had been incarcerated for fifty four years and had spent forty two of those in solitary confinement. his thirst for knowledge never dimmed even as his health failed and not long before he died. He was attempting to learn french in. Nineteen fifty five. Thomas e gaddis an advocate for prisoner rehabilitation reported about strauss's life titled birdman of alcatraz. The book was a fictionalized portrayal of strauss's life and made stroud appear much less violent than he was. It is largely due to this book. That the facts about strauss's life have become so murky gazza's book was adapted into a screenplay and the film bird mana alcatraz was released in one thousand nine hundred sixty two. John frankenheimer directed the movie and starred. Burt lancaster stroud. Karl maldon as a fictionalized. Warren and thelma ritter strauss's mother like the book. The film portrayed stroud in a favorable light. The former inmates who knew stroud said he was much more sinister and unpleasant than the character. Burt lancaster played in the movie. Stroud was not allowed to watch the movie but while preparing for his role as stroud. Burt lancaster visited him in prison. According to lancaster strahl told him he believed he was repeatedly denied. Parole because he was homosexual. He told lancaster. Let's face it. I'm seventy three years old. Does that answer your question about whether i would be a dangerous homosexual art. Carney played the part of robert. Stroud in the nineteen eighty. Tv movie alcatraz the whole shocking story and dennis farina portrayed stroud in the nineteen eighty-seven tv movie. Six against the rock. Stroud has also been the subject of songs and video. Games was robert. Stroud a misunderstood man. Who was only trying to defend himself when he committed his crimes. Or was he a violent dangerous psychopath who needed to be locked away in solitary confinement. Was he rehabilitated. In prison and should he had been paroled in his later years. No matter how you feel about his imprisonment robert stroud was a brilliant man. Considering how much he managed to further the field of ornithology with only limited resources and supplies what could he have done with his life. Had he not shot. Charlie dahmer in a bar in juneau alaska in one thousand nine hundred nine. Thank you for listening. And i hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you to my patrons for your support. Check out the show notes for more information on how you can support this podcast and unlock extra episodes by joining the last frontier club. You can also search for this podcast on patriae on to learn more about the last frontier club. I'll see you soon for the next episode of murder and mystery in the last frontier Would you world hope bill.

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Case #37 Al Capone

Far Side Chats

28:31 min | 2 years ago

Case #37 Al Capone

"Those with day. WHO's the days of all is back? The white patterns what is up with never not be funny. It won't you're right. I know I think I said that. Right guess what I did today what did you do. I got a flu shot. ooh Girl I know your arm sore actually not too bad God. That's good Mike. Wait till tomorrow. Yeah I have a feeling. It's not going to always be that way but my cousin did it. ooh That's nice keeping. She doesn't listen to this. Well Jessica I'll get on the ball. I'll tell her I look you got a band aid. Yep She didn't give me Adora Bandai like I wanted a rude. I know she is the worst. That is the worst. I'm only saying that because she doesn't listen so listen this time so that take it back. Yeah exactly I I got my flu shot like two weeks ago. Overachiever I know. And I had scooby Doo bandaid. Oh I didn't pick it but that just so happens to be my favorite cartoon sane so I was fine with a man I love. Scooby Doo I know you remember that movie with the hex girls. The heck's girl. Yeah they're a three witches and they had a band no win expiring. Yes Oh yes I do that. Oh yes maybe just took me a minute. It's one of my favorites. Yes love that one me and grab eater yes but fun fact will scruff my dog was originally named scrappy. Oh I love Scooby Doo so much and then I decided that wasn't on his name. It was scruffy. Yeah so now he's school scruff. or Mr Bear your scruffy boo or little bear scruff growth growth growth. He's a little or crumble. Ma'am the grumpy man. She wasn't so we're on a huge Gamero group. You'll moon in. Yeah exactly. He's the guy he's Walter Matthau off of Dennis. The menace. Yes yeah that's exactly. Exactly exactly Mr Wilson. Yes yes he is set in his way. Yeah but man when he loves you he loves you. Yeah I know you know you you have to be on us get side yes you really. Do you have to scratch him just where he wants to be scratched Nobel PRI. He's a cutie his. He's the best anyway. Why did we get on that topic scooby? Doo Bandai band-aid in an more back full circle so this is a PSA go get your flu shot yeah It's supposed to be really bad bad this year. Yeah they say that every year but right this year there's already been one confirmed death in Arkansas. Yeah that's so scary and that was like a week ago so I can't believe that flu is not GonNa take me no me either not today Satan. Not Today Satan UH period Darshan point full. Stop End of sentence done anyway. Aw just like you probably feel like you're done with our conversation. We heard also done with our came you know what else is done. What And thank goodness because otherwise we wouldn't be here sipping on this one prohibition. Hey that's right it and if you thought that was a good segue that just listen to this story. A. Al Capone Aka Alfonzo Capone Aka scarface was born in Brooklyn New York on January seventeenth. Eighteen ninety nine. which fact is my GRANDPA's birthday January? Seventeen the exact day not the year but the day but the day that's wonderful you know. I just remembered that that's so cool. I know basically the same person GRANDPA. Hey many New York gangsters in the Early Twentieth Century three kings from impoverished backgrounds. But this was not the case for capone far from being a poor immigrant from Italy who turned to crime to make a living capone was actually from a respectable and professional family. His Father Gabriel was one of thousands of Italians who arrived in New York in eighteen ninety four. He was thirty years old educated and from Naples where he had earned a living as a barber. His wife Theresa was pregnant and already bringing up two sons. John's two year old son Vincenzo. An infant son Rafael the capone family lived near the Brooklyn Navy Yard. It was a tough place. Given given over to the FFICES sought by sailor characters that frequented the surrounding bars. The family was a regular law-abiding albeit noisy Italian American and clan and there were few indications that the young capone would venture into a world of crime and become public enemy number one. Certainly the families move to a more ethnically mixed area of the city exposed the young capone to wider cultural influences. No doubt equipping him him with the means to run a notorious criminal empire but it was capone schooling both inadequate and brutal at a Catholic institution be set within violence. That marred impressionable young man. Despite having been a promising student he was expelled at the age of fourteen for hitting a female teacher and he never went back at age. Fourteen capone met the gangster. Johnny Torio which would prove the greatest influence on the would be gangland. Boss Theriault taught capone the importance of maintaining a respectable front while running a racketeering business. The slightly built theriault represented a new dawn in the criminal enterprise. Transforming violently crude culture into corporate empire capone own join Trios James Street boys gang rising eventually to the five points gang theriault moved from New York to Chicago in nineteen. Oh nine to help run the giant Bronco Business there and in nineteen twenty cent for capone. It was rumored that capone or Frankie Yale sale killed big. Jim Colosimo Torito's boss that year making way for Torito's rule in one thousand nine hundred eighteen capone married middle class. Irish girl May Coughlin and settled down as a bookkeeper trying a brief hiatus from the gangster role however capone soon returned to working for his old boss. Jani theriault following the unexpected death of his father. Allen may they had one child together sunny and remained married until Capone's death as prohibition began in Nineteen nineteen after the eighteenth amendment went. Went into effect new bootlegging operations opened up in Drouin immense wealth in nineteen twenty five theriault retired and capone became A crimes is our of Chicago running gambling prostitution and bootlegging rackets and expanding his territories by the gunning down of rivals thousand rival gangs as capone's reputation grew. He still insisted on being unarmed as a mark of his status but but he never went anywhere without at least two bodyguards and it was even sandwiched between bodyguards. When traveling by car he preferred to travel under the cover of night risking travel by day? Only when absolutely necessary with his business acumen became Toro's partner and took over a manager manager of the four deuces trio's headquarters in Chicago's Levee area. The four deuces served as a speakeasy gambling joy. Wait and whorehouse under one roof. Lots of hats. That is a lot of hats A crackdown on tyring in Chicago meant that Capone's I mobster job was to move operations to Cicero Illinois with the assistance of his brothers. Frank Salvatore Salvador and Ralph Capone infiltrated the government and police departments between them. They took leading positions within Cicero city government in in addition to running brothels gambling clubs and racetracks capone kidnapped opponents. Election workers threatened voters with violence. He eventually actually one office in Cicero but not before his brother frank had been killed in a shootout. Chicago's police force. Capone prided himself on keeping his timber under wraps but when a friend and fellow hood. Jack cusack was assaulted by a small town. Thug Capone Track the assailant down and shot him the dead in a bar. Due to a lack of witnesses capone got away with the murder but the publicity surrounding the case gave him a notoriety that he he never had before after an attempted assassination of capone's friend and mentor theriault. The frail man left his legacy. I see of nightclubs. courthouses gambling dens breweries and speakeasy. He's to capone capone's newfound status. Saw Him moving his headquarters to Chicago's luxurious Metropole Hotel. As part of his personal crusade to become more visible in court celebrity this included fraternizing. Ising with the press and being seen at places like the opera capone was different from many gangsters who avoided publicity always smartly dressed. He said out to be viewed. You'd a respectable businessman and pillar of the community capone's next mission involved bootleg whiskey with the help of his old friend. Friend Frankie Yale in New York L.. Set out to smuggle huge quantities into Chicago. The events would lead to what became known as the club massacre where capone had Yale's enemies brutally attacked during a Christmas party capone's bootlegging liking whiskey trail from Chicago to New York was making him rich. But an incident involving billy mix wigan known as the hanging prosecutor. You're was to prove a major setback. For an unassailable gangster mix Wigan was mistakenly shot and killed by capone's henchmen during a shootout out between rivals outside a bar. Capone was blamed but once again due to lack of evidence he escaped arrest however the murder was followed to buy a big outcry against gangster violence and public cinnamon went against capone high profile investigations against capone capone failed. The police therefore took their frustrations out by constantly reading his whore houses in gambling. Dinh's capone went into hiding mm for three months during the summer but eventually he took a huge risk and gave himself up to the Chicago police. It proved to be the right decision as the authorities. Authorities did not have much evidence to charge him. Capone was once again a free man. Having made a mockery of the police and justice justice system. Ironically capone took on the role of peacemaker appealing to the other gangsters to tone down the violence. He even managed to broker an amnesty between rival gangsters and for two months. The killing and violence ceased but Chicago is firmly in the grip of gangsters and capone own appeared beyond the reach of the law. Soon infighting between rival gangsters escalated into street violence and frequent hijackings. Jacking of Capone's Whiskey transports became a big problem. One major thorn in the side of capone was Yale. Wants a powerful associate. He he was now seen as the main instigator of disruptions to capone's Whiskey business one Sunday afternoon Yale met his end with the first use of Tommy Armie gun against him. Capone also had to deal with rival gangster bugs Moran and his North siders gang who had been a threat for for years Moran had even once tried to kill capone's colleague and friend Jack mcgurn the decision by capone and mcgurn to avail themselves of Moran was to lead to one of the most infamous gangland massacres history. The Saint Valentine's Day massacre the one we all all know and have heard about exactly on Thursday February Fourteenth Nineteen Twenty nine at ten thirty in the morning morning Moran and his gang were lured by a bootlegger into a garage by Whiskey. mcgurn men would be waiting for them. Dressed in stolen police jason reforms. The idea being that they would stage a fake raid. mcgurn like capone made sure he was far away and checked into a hotel with his girlfriend when mcgurn men thought they saw Moran. They got into their police uniforms in drove over the garage in a stolen police car the bootleggers caught in the act lined up against the wall. mcgurn is men took the bootleggers guns and opened fire with two machine guns. All the men except Frank Duesenberg were killed outright in cold blood. The plane appeared to go brilliantly family except for one major detail Moran was not among the Dead Moran had seen the police car and took off not wanting to be caught up in the raid read. Even though capone was conveniently in Florida. The police in the newspapers knew who had staged the massacre Saint Valentine's Day massacre Kerr became a national media. Event immortalizing capone as the most ruthless geared smartest an elegant of gangland bosses even then while powerful forces were amassing against him. Capone indulged in one. Last Balletti Act of revenge the killing of two Sicilian colleagues whom he believed I had betrayed him capone invited his victims to a sumptuous banquet where he brutally pulverize them with a baseball bat. Capone had observed the whole tradition of wining and dining traders before executing them somewhat ironically. It was the pin pushers from the tax office. Who was deposed? The greatest threat to the gangsters bootlegging empires in May nineteen twenty seven. The Supreme Court. Ruled that a bootlegger had to pay the income tax on his illegal bootlegging business with such a ruling. It wasn't long before the small Special Intelligence Unit of the IRS. Under ELMORE IRA was able to go after Capone I love that the irs contracts and illegal business. I mean how do they know if they're paying in their taxes right. I mean it's illegal. Exact business itself is not gonNA report on. It just kills me but apparently it worked. I guess so. So capone left for Miami with his wife and son bought Palm Island state property that he immediately mmediately started to renovate expensively. This gave Elmer Iryh his chance to document. Capone's income and spending but capone was colaver every transaction. He made was on a cash basis. The only exception was the tangible assets of the palm island state which was evidence of a major source of income eventually capone's activities including the Valentine's Day massacre attracted the attention of President Berber Hoover in March nineteen twenty nine. Hoover asked Andrew Mellon his secretary of the Treasury. Have you got this fellow fellow capone yet. I want that man in jail. Millen set out to get the necessary evidence to prove income tax evasion and to amass enough evidence dents to prosecute capone successfully for prohibition violations Eliot Ness a dynamic young agent with the US Prohibition Bureau was charged with gathering the evidence of prohibition violations. He assembled a team of daring. Young men and made extensive use of wiretapping technology. While there was a doubt that capone could be successfully prosecuted for prohibition violations in Chicago the government was certain it could get capone on tax evasion in May nineteen twenty. Nine capone went to a gangster conference in Atlantic city afterward. He saw a movie in Philadelphia when leaving the cinema. He was arrested and imprisoned for carrying a concealed weapon. Capone was incarcerated in the eastern penetentiary. Three where he stayed until March sixteenth. Nineteen thirty he was later released from jail for good behavior. But was put on America's most wanted blissed which publicly humiliated mobster who so desperately wanted to be regarded as a worthy man of the people. I find it really interesting. That what got him was carrying a concealed weapon right after everything. He did not even tax evasion. Not The tax evasion just concealed carry so crazy yeah elmer iryh undertook a cunning plan to use undercover agents posing as hoods and Veltri Capone's organization. The operation took nerves of steel my friends despite informer ending up with a bullet in said before he could testify. Elmar managed to amass enough evidence through his detectives posing US gangsters to try capone opponent in front of a jury with two vital bookkeepers. Leslie Shiwei and Fred Reese who had once been in Capone's employment now safely under our police protection. It was only a matter of time before capone's days as public enemy number one were over. Agent S S. angered by capone for the murder of a friend managed to enrage capone by exposing prohibition violations to ruin his bootlegging industry. Millions ends of dollars of brewing equipment were seized or destroyed thousands of gallons of beer and alcohol had been dumped and the largest breweries or closed a march thirteenth. Nineteen thirty one. A federal grand jury met secretly on the government's claim that in nineteen twenty four. Al Capone had a tax liability of thirty two thousand four hundred eighty eight dollars and eighty one cents. The jury returned an indictment against capone. That was kept secret until the investigation was complete for the years. Nineteen Twenty five to nineteen twenty nine and just so you guys snow if we were to put that into the inflation calculator that is equivalent to five hundred forty eight thousand eight hundred and two dollars today. Jesus that's a lot of money I mean. I wouldn't mind having that money me either but I wouldn't be taxed liable the grand jury later returned. An indictment against capone with twenty two counts of tax evasion totaling over two hundred thousand dollars. Capone and sixty eight members of his gang were charged with five thousand separate violations of the Vol- Stead Act. These income tax cases took precedent. Over the prohibition violations fearing that witnesses would be tampered with having doubts that the six year statute of limitations would be upheld by the Supreme Court. Ah Deal with secretly struck between Capone's lawyers and government. Prosecutors Capone was was to plead guilty to a lighter charge and would receive a sentence of between two and five years when word got out. The press was outraged outraged and campaigned against what they saw as a blatant whitewash. The overconfident capone who believed he would receive less than five years years in prison. became less cocky when he realized that his plea bargain was now known in Boyd on October. Sixth Nineteen thirty he won fourteen. Detectives escorted capone the Federal Court building. He was dressed in a conservative blue serge suit and was is without his usual. Pinky ring and Godley jewelry it was inevitable that capone's henchman procured a list of jury members to bribe but unbeknownst to capone the authorities had been aware of that plot when judge Wilkinson entered the courtroom. He suddenly demanded that the jury be exchanged changed with another in the same building capone and his lawyer were shook the fresh jury was even sequestered at night night. So that the capone mob couldn't get to them during the trial attorney. George E Q Johnson made a mockery of Capone's claim to be a Robin Hood figure and a man of the people. He stressed the hypocrisy of a man who would spend thousands of dollars on meals in luxuries but gives little to the poor and unemployed how he asked could capone a possess so much property vehicles and even diamond belt buckles goals when his defense lawyers profess that their client had no income after nine hours of discussion on October Seventeenth Nineteen thirty thirty one. The jury found capone guilty of several counts of tax evasion. Judge Wilkerson sentenced him to eleven years in prison and fifty thousand dollars in fines and court costs of another thirty thousand dollars. Bail was also denied in August. Nineteen thirty four capone was moved from prison in Atlanta to the infamous Alcatraz prison in San Francisco. His days of privileges in jail were gone and contact with the outside world. Even through letters and newspapers were minimal however capone sentence was eventually eventually reduced to six and a half years for good behavior. Al Capone died on January twenty fifth nineteen forty seven of cardiac arrest at the age. A forty eight. During his last years in prison capone's declining health was exasperated by tertiary. Syphilis and he became came confused and disoriented after release capone slowly deteriorated at his Palm Island Palace. His wife May stuck by Cam until the very end. And that's the end. That's the end of Al Capone Fun fact alcohol and hung out a lot in hot springs. You did he really sure did. That's crazy. Yeah it's why they have a bunch of pictures of him in hot springs will surely I had no idea well surely leading. Now we'll ask surely do Shirley I'm should look at shook shook us. Look Okay so now that the story is over which by the way Highly interesting boom. You're telling me a fun fact about the scar on his face and why he's actually called scarface yes. We started recording absolutely. I will fill our listeners into yes lead in a useful scrap in a brothel saloon. A young hoodlum slashed capone with a knife or razor across the left cheek prompting the leader nickname of scarface face. Well that is just crazy interesting. I had no idea he was just in a bar fight basically so I didn't realize he actually a had a scar on his face. I assumed it was because he puts on other people's faces basically a joker. ooh ooh No. He actually had a scar on his face so crazy. I know right and the more you know the Marino and this is the first one I feel like he actually got his comeuppance. Yes in a while you know. He didn't go off to Florida like the last now. One of the last stories we cover died of heart failure. You know cardiac arrest. I feel like it just things kind of went the way they were supposed to go. Yeah I mean and he had a good life he did he related did some stuff. Yeah you know. You're a true far CIDER when you realize you're actually actually obsessed with stories just like this one. Don't miss out a more just like it. Make sure your subscribes to your notified. Every Monday of our new episodes where an itunes on spotify bye and you can listen on our website at www the bar side chats dot com speaking of which we always post photos and research information for each episode on our website. If you're like we know you are go. Check it out. We also post photos episode details on facebook and Instagram. We love when you guys get a story. Suggestions share our post host or even just like our content or always looking for new crazy stories. So let us know if you have any from the far side Far from being poor looney was one of the thousands of Turn it lands in a tough place. Given over the family was a regular law by Lulu. I'm GonNa read you. That remind beep but it was. It was suppose but it was composed violence that marred the impressionable impressionable it. I don't know why wait. It's between with his business Business Capone kidnapped opponents. Elections worker opponents election workers as part of his personnel Turkish as the most most at the most ruthless fear smarter than elegant of gang. Limbaugh how he asked could cone episode complete.

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REShow: Charlie Ebersol. Hour 2 (02-22-19)

The Rich Eisen Show

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

REShow: Charlie Ebersol. Hour 2 (02-22-19)

"Orig- is on demand. Your show your schedule. Fifteen minutes after ball dot com. Check out the casts at richeisenshow dot com. Run into old navy for fifty percents off all navy active. Today's only tomorrow and Sunday, all your favorite active leggings. Hoodies mesh teas and more fifty percent off tomorrow and Sunday. It'll be an old navy dot com valid to twenty three and two twenty four excludes in store clearance. All right hour, number two of the rich Eisen show is on the air. A fascinating Friday program. We had Howard Beck on the show last hour has the NBA fine. James harden, yet haven't seen it. Okay. I would imagine it's coming. I mean, again, I don't recall an M V like this would be you can't see Mahomes because Mahomes is young kid around for while. I'm Brady, you're like breeze. Russell Wilson brings his criticize the NFL before. And he has clearly criticized the officiating true. And by the way, we have not. Really hit upon yet. Which we we could hear the news. We learned Peterberg the director of the NFL one hundred commercial when he was here on Tuesday that he had Brees and Kamera shot that part of the commercial excellent Super Bowl commercial. He didn't they shot that within twenty four to forty eight hours of the NFC championship. Instead, it was the next day. So they they lose in that fashion and they're sitting down part of their commitment. There's no question that that had been set up set up before that they made their pointed round on behalf of the National Football League the day after that officiating happen that officiating nightmare, which Peterberg called what I called the day the worst non call ever. So. It would be like what would what's what's the just absolutes Brady coming out or the MVP of league that's been around for a while Aaron Rogers. That's a good one. Okay. Eratures coming out and saying John Kerry. You know? At Hockey League's kid somebody who's been around while or hockey himself when he was active. He can't referee are games anymore. It's been personal going on. And that guy cannot referee are games anymore. He hates clay Matthews. And and I know we're we're we're used to having a drama from the NBA. Oh, these guys had a brawl on opening night here in Los Angeles. That was crazy. As a matter of fact last night was the first time that Chris Paul and Rondo were on the same court since nothing happened between grow taking swings. You know, Joey Crawford, and Tim Duncan are. Legit threw out there. And how about Howard Beck saying last hour that he's heard? From his. Reporting perch, because again, everybody's on the everyone's right? There is no other sport where everybody is directly on top of the action quite like this that Chris Paul has said to officials. I I have a special relationship with Adam silver. I know the Commissioner, okay. So we're going to bring this up. And if he does do that, I wouldn't blame some officials basically have an issue with that and says he pushes his weight around as head of the players association. But the league cannot let stand the MVP of the league. Saying this guy can't referee are games anymore and that puts an inch. I mean, you don't think Breen in Van Gundy. And Mark Jackson are gonna talk about that tomorrow night on ABC when the rockets step into oracle. I mean, that's absolutely. Is there a website that that announces there is okay? It's on the it's an official NBA page. Okay. But it's announced at nine AM eastern day the game. So we know tonight's officials. They have to let these officials know you're getting on this plane, you're going there. So toss tres probably he's probably it is next gig. I don't know how often a referee goes back to back for teams games. Either. But if I'm the NBA, maybe I put Scott foster out there on national television right away saying you can't tell us what we're doing on the officiating front foster not working game tonight. So would assume he's scheduling tomorrow. Well, there's only let me do this. I'm just looking at this. I think there's a full slate. Fifteen games will be a full slate. Right. One two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve by the way, counting on the air is a flat out, Mike francesa move. All right. I just went full francesa on your they're right on to. I mean, I just really took out of Mike back after this. Very good. So that's what's going on in the in the NBA world tonight. San Antonio Toronto. I think the Toronto fans will give a full on standing ovation to collide tonight when he's announced because the last time he played San Antonio insanity. Tony was the exact opposite. And then you've got Utah and Oklahoma City. That's who. I would choose in my in the poll question, Chris, Oklahoma City. Yeah. What where does it where does that stand right here at the teams in the west of the best shot to beat the warriors? So he put teams two through four on there and added the Lakers thunder second twenty three percent rockets lead the way forty one percent nuggets. Eighteen percent blazers twelve percent Lakers by okay? A nice chat back backstage with Charlie Ebersol, the founder of the af which is entering week three Charlie's claim to fame. Biggest claim to fame is the fact that he was the executive producer in part who gave me my first ever reality show hosting gig first and only today, I'm still I'm still I'm still be interested in doing reality. Yeah. I have been born to put I've been put on this earth to give away cash and prizes as later on in April. When I I'm recording for I guess future use a paramedic. I'm doing the the is it is it a hundred thousand dollar permanent strain and given destroyed giveaway a hundred grand on ABC that change so many. I don't remember to be twenty thousand dollars went to like forty thousand dollar paramedics. Right. I was just looking up. There are full episodes of the great escape on YouTube. Are there really now the hundreds hundreds, and there are full episodes of me acting all mysterious for the greatest which one would you like me to post? We got the Alcatraz episodes Alcatraz, the USS hornet, my favorite one. Okay. The hornet was wearing I was. Was there and we Bertram van Munster who with his life released dog in year. They're the ones who do the the they did the great escape. But also do the amazing race the one that you showed right there the bone yard. Oh, the the plane boat that was cool plane bone yard is Dr in Arizona where all retired planes go. And and the military keeps there for. Just in case they need parts for other planes. But. It's a may. That was unbelievable at never been there before I'm gonna post this Alcatraz one, Richard. Richard our Chaz Joe I shot that overnight. I've been in Alcatraz prison at five in the morning and somebody needs to tell me if they can say the same. Well, Sean Connery can well. Okay. Clinton. Got away about that time. I've been there, man. And a couple of times, you know, I really cool watch the people who are in the greatest gape did not know where they were taken to. They were blindfolded, right, right? And had an aunt had a bag. They have literally was like a double blindfold situation blindfold in a bag put over their head. And they would be revealed where they were like they had no idea there. Now. Contrast like, boom, you're in Alcatraz. So, you know, the producers were always like you gotta play up the mystery you got to scare them a little bit. And like I said at the end of yesterday's showed the two things that I am not as mysterious or scary. I'm not so couple times. I would just like bust, you know, to have fun with them. And they'd be like, we this is not what we're doing. Just he got a it's big. It's mysterious. It's huge. You gotta play it up. Charlie gave that to me and every single person that worked on that shows like, you know, how great that show was I don't know how to get a second season. I would have loved that. Alcatraz prison. It was also a missile silo. I think that's in Tucson, Arizona. There was one that was a. Kind of like a haunted. Psych ward up in northern California. And I did a shot. The middle of the night. Right. Everything was in the middle of the night. Nothing. Like the Bonar is the only one in the daytime. So. I had I had a stand up where I shot something on camera like a thirty second piece, and I felt something brush the top of my head. And the middle of it. But I am as you know, having worked with me as long as you have. And folks who have consumed the show for as long as you have. And we pre she at that. I'm a lead pipe wielding professional. Hard hitting professional. So I kept going through it after the standup. I turn to everybody. I'm like what was that against the top of my head there? Like, it was a bad that now. It's so we then looked at the footage and the back frigging bat. Flu scrape the top of my head. Mysterious. Yeah. It was a lot of mystery right there and the bomber jacket. You are the one time. Checking the old podcast TV show. We did the split screen of you and Tom Cruise. I didn't have I didn't have the patches have the shades either. But that was on the on the aircraft carrier, which is outside Oakland, by the way. That's a reshot that in Oakland, California. A lot of fun. So basically with the alliance of American football gearing up for week three, congratulations. Charlie three weeks is better than once. I mean better than one season. One is better than the asking to get a second season. I'll tell you that. Does he know that you might del tufo when San Antonio takes on sandiego on the NFL network this Sunday night. Yep. It's going to sound spectacular. Of course. Are you going to the game you gonna from driving down right after the show after the you got a whole weekend, San Diego. Yeah. I've couple friends. I'm going out tonight with you gas lamp. Pacific beach. Okay. My friend owns a big club there they'd club. Now. Big big. Are you going to recruit for the Mike del tufo smoke? I yes, I will work on that. Actually. Right. That'll be actually part of what I'm doing. You may even have the smut fest there. We may move. No, no have on the it's on the island, CDs Escobar. We've gotta get again. But we don't have to lock all the details down now benefit concert for him to come out and could be in this place. Who's him to come out your guy James Jones, we are going to put together like we're gonna put together a PowerPoint? Well, I mean, we should work it with Charlie ever saw launched a league for crying out loud. He can help launch the Mike del tufo smoke fest. You have no idea what we're talking about. But Mike works with the alliance. So I'm on board. Because you heard us talking about it, by the way, the audience muted, and there's some just watching the pretty. He sounds great. Just like the thanks to that. People San Antonio. It's San Diego is just going to it's going to be just a perfectly sounding game. Thanks, very good to see Charlie. He's wearing some af gear right there. The alliance of American football gearing up for week number three. It's going to be a fun chat with Charlie when we come back here on this edition of the rich Eisen show college football benefit football, the greatest time of the year. No more waiting. The time has arrived for you to get in all the action. Don't wait any longer to make your own line wages and head over the bed. Online dot AG to take into the best bonuses in the business. You've promo code podcast one to receive a fifty percent. Sign up bonus today that's podcast one to receive a fifty percent sign of bonus. Whether you love college football bet online dot AG has all you to get in the action today, and they're our exclusive partner of podcast one sports net. Sign up today at been online dot AG and use promo code podcast one to receive a fifty percent bonus. When. You sign up take advantage of this incredible offer now bent on dot AG. That's bent, online dot AG. The online sportsbook expert. Okay. This is the thirty second commercial. And I'm gonna throw a lot of numbers at you. But please stay with me. And just fifteen minutes, you could say fifteen percent or more on car insurance. This company's been offering great rates in great service for over seventy five years in anytime, you need help you could speak to one of their train specialists. Twenty four seven the company is gyco. Go to Geico dot com today. Sorry for all the numbers and in five four three two one amount of time. Run into old navy for fifty percents off all maybe active. Today's only tomorrow and Sunday, all your favorite active leggings. Hoodies smash teas and more fifty percent off tomorrow and Sunday at old navy and old navy dot com. Valid two twenty three to twenty four excludes in store clearance. All right. We could tell just by even the first quarter of a football that this was something that was going to work out. And here we are entering week number three of the first inaugural season of the alliance of American football, which just received a done of cash. Two hundred fifty million bucks was just committed to the alliance of American football by Tom done in the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes and the founder Charlie ever sold back here in the program. Good to see you, sir. Thank you very much. Congrats on the the launch this thing. Thank you. And you know, obviously, lots how many months of work when this. Well, we were we we started this three years ago, but three years ago, we were three employees thirteen months ago, and we're now a little under twelve hundred. So what what was it just you sitting around a table breakfast table lunch table saying? No, no, no. When I directed. The when I directed the thirty for thirty about the XFL the my now had been. My dad invents, and I was doing interviews. And I was spending time Tom vit who is now my head of business. But he was the GM the XFL and he'd help launch USFL United soccer league. And we just started trying to say like, why didn't this work and the general says quality football, but also the business model, and so we think we built a business model that works and clearly Bill Polian delivered players stored Inari role player, in coaches, the coaches. I mean, look what you would what a league needs to do coming out. Is it obviously needs to look like the real thing which it did not only in some of the style of play. But in terms of you got CBS, the NFL network Leach report all on TNT friends. Yes, indeed are old friends whose one loan mistake. One loan mistake. Stilling still the highest rate unscripted show they ever great escape. Yup. Fantastic. So I got vote for which is nice boot reboot. Everything's getting reported. It's free aback. If just for the wardrobe. I mean, one of the great wardrobes of let's be honest. He's walking around looking like he stepped out of G Q safari edition. It's amazing. The bomber jackets. Yeah. James BOND meets Indiana Jones at this. Maybe not maybe maybe not so much of it. But that outfit. We're starting to get there. And then when we got you in the you're in the Henley with there, we go look at me with the planes behind me, although the beard would have been better. Yeah. Rugged well. More mysterious season to my publicist is like why are you talking about a show that was on television years ago? It's okay. We'll get to the af it this is the rich Eisen show, Charlie. That's right. That's right. Let not only do you need is. I said that's the look like it, and some familiar names would be helpful to but viral moments the first weekend, you got the berko hit that hit. Yeah. Was just something on everybody's phones. And the thing that I was saying is that if this. Was the NFL. We'd be talking about fine suspension. What was going on the blue tent or not? Instead, it was people. Just like, okay, that's a football hit. So a lot of the seriousness that always surrounds by NFL games was removed. And it just was people reacting for the love of watching football. Do you get that sense? So completely having a game of football. That is real which is never happened before an alternative football. Right. You never had. Everyone's gimmicky. Everyone's marketing everyone's doing everything else. Having real football all with all NFL names. All NFL, head coaches, all NFL GM's all NFL officials half of our officials are in the official development program for the NFL. Everything was meant to be real. And then you have that first game incident extraordinary game with great great plays viral plays. We were we're very happy. My dad famously said at halftime of the first XFL game. This is over we're dead. He's he said, yeah. Well, one team had twelve yards of total off. Offense in the first half. So so that's when he knew that was daisy. Right. So is there like a fine system in the af where? Yeah. But I mean you have to. Upon upon review and Spang Tom to it was a completely legal head. I'd like our players to remember to clip their helmets on that would have been helpful. But ultimately, who's a form tackle? I mean, we look at that. And that was good. I think from our perspective seeing actual NFL defenses and actual NFL offenses Gary Gilbert running the air raid offense last week, right? I mean three throws over fifty yards with with stunt plays. And who's good? And then another viral video was Spurrier. You're looking at the manna from me, God grant me Steve Spurrier Spurrier. Radioing his play in telling the quarterback to tell the receiver to catch. It. This time was Fant so we ran the preseason we filmed all the preseason games during the Pro Bowl weekend. And and Steve at the end of the game. You know, they're running their, you know, third string guys, they're gonna cut etc. And they're playing against San Antonio. And San Antonio starts getting back into it. And the earth San Diego they start getting back into it. They're getting close Spurrier's. Mike turns coaching goes we want to win this game. Right. The starters back in there. And this is the quarterback US. Cortege Chang Zhang is just just sneak that baby in there just think to sneak it in there, isn't that? He's best. God blessed. Us was Steve's Berg. Apparently, Tim Tibo revealed in his press conference with the Mets that Spurrier's constantly calling him to play. Listen, steve. Steve Spurrier is a indomitable force. And he is not to be stopped. And you know, Tim called me Tim called me after the press conferences, like, hey, got a lot of questions about you and spur calling like man, we'd love to have you. If you're going to play baseball. You should. I mean, look it's a completely different skill set. Now, he spent a couple years doing it. He and I've had I don't know. Half a dozen conversations spent a bunch of time at the Super Bowl, I respect what he's doing. And I'm pressed by what he's doing. And how many people are even close to capable of doing that? But yeah, if he wants to come back and play. Sure. Well, I mean, look when when the NF when the NFL network first broadcast Thursday night football game, as you know, the announcers in the NFL network. The first ever announces in the NFL network booth were Bryant Gumbel and Chris Collins worth and I would prefer to say this when the NFL network was three weeks old which in a way as despite the three years of preparation. That you've put in your league is just three weeks. Now coming up this weekend of showing the product to the general sports using there's no way just three weeks three months into the NFL network that Bryant Gumbel or Chris Collins would have said, you know, what I I don't mind being part of that. I don't mind my brand that I've built my entire career being latched onto that percent. So maybe a year in or something that's when Tibo if he's done with baseball. I know our goal is to be a developmental league for the NFL. Our goal is to get players back. Then fell created the NFL out in our contracts. Why we only have NFL head coaches. It's why we create a system all thirty two teams have sent scouts to all of our games have. Yeah. So and they came to our training camp. We had a we had a section in training camp. Does just for NFL to be able to do what they needed to do. So that they could see the players see the officials and see the coaches we just send John Kitin the Cowboys. So what we're looking for his play. Who want to get back into the NFL? If Tim decided he wanted to shot at playing in the NFL, which is not his alternate dream. He he should play for us. Because that's where you can do it any player that wants to do it. We're fully supportive of that. That's why we exist. If you wanna play in a spring league that is not about getting back to the NFL do that. But for us if you want the alternate dream and look our goal Bill Polian. And I and Tom Dunton, which is a remarkable thing about Tom is Tom didn't just come in with money and infrastructure came in with a full understanding, what division was which is to stand on the sidelines of the Super Bowl next year and say I knew him when he won the alliance championship. And now he's playing in the Super Bowl. Find me Kurt Warner's that that's where our head goes. And nobody's ever attempted to do that before. And I think that's why we've been able to win because the player quality's better so Charlie ever sold the founder of the alliance American football here, obviously, you are well aware of the reports that came out prior to the settling of the suit grievance between the league. And Colin Kaepernick that capper Nick was reached out to by the af is that by me, you personally calling and I had. A bunch of conversations about it. And I respect Colin first of all I respect him as a player Irish back. He has a very remarkable Dr in commitment to what he believes in. I also believe he wants to play in the NFL. And so I called him and said look if and when the time is ready, and you're you're interested in this. We would we would love to be the path for you to be able to do that. But I respect if either you can't or you don't want to and it was great. He he, and I he met my wife we had. I mean, we had very pleasant conversations. I'm, but ultimately, I understand where his head and heart is well was the reason why he didn't do it is why can you reveal why he wouldn't join the af two. I don't I think that's his story to tell not mind. Okay. And also, I think one of the things is ultimately. I think Colin is shown what the power of having your own voices. And I don't think as a league as owner a founder. It's my place to put words in the mouth of players. They should have. That was the goal of our league. We created a bonus system that bonuses players for being as Hines ward says the CEO of their own brand, we wanna give that I think a lot of challenges that are the leagues have is that they the symptoms are what we're seeing of the problems. But it a core. We don't see players as ATM cards for us. We don't see them as commodities. We see them as partners. And so we want to encourage them to be able to do that. And I think hopefully, that's a movement were able to tap into. Okay. And and your answer of his story to tell. I I understand that. But you also understand my position. So I'm gonna go follow up plea pleased, the number the dollar amount that was thrown out. There was that the reason why did it definitely best for me to let Colin Kachins. Let me ask you this. The conversation that people have that he doesn't really want to play football that he doesn't mean if that's true. I'm surprised because what I saw was a guy that was in the gym three and a half hours a day. Like is certainly I I've known con for quite some time. I mean, I I've I did a show with him a couple years ago for the Super Bowl. And he's a extraordinary athlete. Well-built all everything you'd want in that situation. He certainly maintaining that. So so obviously a health enthusiast or he wants to play just so understand having this conversation. I am not one of. I don't call myself in opinion, ater, or you know, obviously behind this Mike, I I have to have opinions and let people know what's going through my temples. I'm not one to say that I don't think he wants to play football anymore that he wants to be a social activist and use football as the platform. I don't think that I think he really wants to play football. I just think he said he wants to play in the NFL. Right. And by the way, we are not the sorry. We're not the NFL. You're not trying to be the NFL. We're not trying to compete with the NFL. We are in essence, a symbiotic partner, a developmental league to improve the ecosystem of football everything we've done is to create a path for Trent Richardson to be able to reinvent himself and say, you know, what all of that stuff that happened in the past. This was me playing for other people. This is me playing for myself. And look what it's happened. Look what Gary Gilbert gear Gilbert walked away from a futures contract in the NFL to complete our lead to do that. So if a player wants it, we support it. But ultimately, let's not forget this guy five years ago. Four years ago was in the Super Bowl. Oh, right. No. That's and and I'm not because everyone's like does you really want to play football? I think the guy actually does want to play football. I think we're quite clear on the fact that nobody has been able to pin. This guy down the way they wanted to they want to label him as things he's this. He's that regardless of whether you agree with him or not, right? You cannot question the conviction, and you can't question what he was willing to to put on the line and the truth matters, regardless of what he decides to do. He certainly changed the game of football and not doing it on the field. And I think you know, we'll see what he wants to do between the white lines. But. He's a force of nature. Hardly ever. Saw the af founder here on the show. The infusion of cash is that one way to put it for Tom. It's a heck of fusion two hundred fifty when it's a quarter of a quarter of a billion dollars the news that this is needed. Everyone could use. Case anyone's wondering, I definitely need an one does a quarter of a billion dollars. But to make payroll was that true payroll? Yes, do you think payroll is a quarter of a billion dollars just that if it was next week semi real tough? Quarter of a billion dollars a week. We're probably not running a great business. No, listen. Here's the thing. This isn't investor who is let's let's be very clear about who. Tom is Tom Dunton started from nothing and at twenty started a business that made billions of dollars. He is a very very smart businessman, and he unknown unbeknownst to me was looking at my business for over a year and had close friends in ties people that you, and I are very close to in the media business. I got a call from somebody who I respect to runs a fortune fifty company on Wednesday morning. And he said, there's someone I think you really need to have a conversation with who's interested in coming in. And that was seven at seven thirty in the morning. I got on the phone, Tom Dunin. He said this is how I would do this. Here's how the money is what I think you do money. But here's the infrastructure that I can give you and it was a I mean, the the truly unfortunate nature of being a startup is you make. Mistakes. Most most startups don't have the challenge of being on the national stage the way we are saying we switch payroll companies, and it's you know, it's gotten blown into something, that's really unfortunate. And I and I've spent a lot of time talking to a lot of players apologizing for what we did. We thought we were making it better by putting them on a system that would have the insurance the way it did and everything we've probably should on it two weeks earlier, we've learned our lesson there. But that was a confluence of events with what Tom Tom. He completely changes everything I go from being a startup company. This is what he said to me on the phone. This is the first conversation. He said, listen you've raised your series A in you're gonna raise your series B. And then you're going to go raise your series, see or you could take my money, and we'll just call it your series Infinity. And I was like what does that even mean he said you will never want for money again? Like, what do I sign on the dot? What does that actually look not only going gonna give you money? I'm gonna give you infrastructure. This is a guy he took me into a meeting with the heads of AT and T couple of days ago. And as we're walking I could have done that for you, Charles. Quarter of a billion. This is the part you can't do or walking out of the building. And I say man this meeting came together in like six hours. How did it happen in one of the top three people at AT goes? It helps Tom's the building. Yeah. That's right. I can't do that. Yeah. I was like I can't keep dropping the mic like I have to keep picking up. So Tomkins say something else, and I can drop it again. Well, I mean, look, Charlie obviously, you need for to be successful. You gotta have buzzed. You've got people talking about you. And you gotta have people trying to poke holes and trying to tear you down, you know, that better than anybody else. So you need Colin Kaepernick. No, well, he wouldn't come because you wouldn't pay him. Well, you need to this money 'cause you would make payroll, and you know, that people are saying that potentially to try and make sure you're not succeeding Tom during that whole thing and saying like, look, I what do we say? And he was like nothing. They're talking about us. They're talking about. Endlessly, Tom's got a little Jerry in him. He's got a little. He's got he's a let me let me really clear we internally called Tom NSA, not screwing around. Yeah. He's the guy who comes in. And has just like this is how we're doing it. And and has the has the vision of how to actually execute an chops bind it I've never been in a situation. Like that before this was a startup keep mine, everyone who tried to do this before had infrastructure. They had the WW had NBC General Electric. They had all this stuff. Tom comes in. And in an instant takes me from let's call it an adolescent company that's getting through it to in a fully structured adult company in in minutes. So we're going to go to the combine next week. And we're going to sit down with people, and we're not having conversations about, you know, tell me about what the backdrop is. I'm just saying here's the new chairman of my board. And by the way, Google. And you know, Charlie ever so here on the show, some of the things that you have done with the broadcast because you did have CBS NFL network, and you mentioned Turner. I love listening in on the replay. I told Pereira and blend of love it. I told them you guys realize you just wrote yourself job. Well, you know what though they can still we can still listen in. And this is one of the reasons why I don't know if the NFL would do it if we're listening them misinterpret live, you know, and so in any of the conversations you've had with the NFL have you heard maybe an appetite of them saying we like that we I so we had a lot of conversation, obviously, they're not only our network partner, but there are partner in a bunch of different areas. And and we worked closely with them and the PA to create a situation where players can leave under contract to go play in the NFL. Right. All of our rules committee. All everyone that's on our rules committee was on at some point time or currently is on the. Dell's rules committee your competition committee same thing. So we did not other than the sky judge which was was was polling in Pereira. Thinking of hey, let's put a ninth official in the box. What mentioned the sky judges the answer to the NFL's was his idea? He keeps mentioning I try trademark it though. Because there's definitely a three picture deal inside. Tell me cana- Reeves is not the sky tell me that right now. Stephen burcin out of the back room telling to come in here, we got his next. Things are all things that came out of deep conversations with them. I'm not a fan of the sky judge because I've in all honesty because I wanna see a flag thrown on a field. I wanna know that there's been a penalty that I don't wanna know plays done. Wait a minute. Somebody who can't throw a flag has technically to hear it. And that drives me nuts as I'm already driven nuts as a fan when there's a flag on the opposite side of the field on a related unrelated drive. Here's my let me let me let me take one shot at convincing. Okay. The NFC championship had sixty stop. You could stop. We had sixty four cameras. They'd sixty four cameras on the game. You want to guys running backwards while to whatever. Twenty one year old guys are up in the air doing all sorts of blind to the to the official where he is you just want us to rely on someone running back. We're not doing subjective calls around doing crazy stuff. But Greaves stuff that completely alters the outcome of the game. Then don't get me wrong. It's good for all of you guys. Because it gives you four new cycles to talk about how they blew the call. Ultimately, you're talking about franchises. There were millions and billions of dollars that are being decided by somebody running backwards with trying to catch what they saw. No man, you want to level of fairness, I don't wanna replay every call our games are two and a half hours. They're fast, and they're fun. Okay. Let me respond to that. First of all say is right. Surely you ever come on this show and call me Yuguy. Okay. That's not accepting them. No, no, no. You. Guys. I would hold on battling down stop stop stop. It surely oversold get back in your seat. No. What I am saying is even as somebody who does appreciate the value of endless new cycles. Yes. I would prefer to re remove that. I don't need the new cycles. I'd rather that call begotten, right? And if you do replay everything if you replay everything will not extend the game, he will not extended. They spend they spend four minutes and something like forty five seconds replaying whether or not Eshelman graze the ball on the field and your guesses. Good as mine if they got it. Right. I think they get it. Right. Yeah. I know but looking to Kate Cameron Fourcade camera. I don't know it looks like there's a fabric of his for the. For the kids for the sake of time ball, then for the sake of time. Let's stipulate on this that we might not agree on the sky judge. Do you think the NFL has an appetite to let us in on listening to the art McNally replaced center? New York talked to an official I think you're doing. Well, here's the thing. I will tell you there are and we've had deep conversation about this. There are technical challenges that are unique to that problem that don't exist for us because we could just put we we have a replay judge in the stadium. Got that. There is a technical challenge. It would need to be resolved. I think transparent. Look, I'm I believe in transparency. I also think that at the end of the day in the age of them for mation having someone pontiff Kate on what they think is going on versus showing what's going on makes no sense. Right. So I think that there's value. I think you're gonna see a lot of pressure from the networks to say this is look how effective this was. I think it's great. I think the other thing is making the coaches, I don't know some coaches might not gonna kick and all you need is one hall of fame. Head coach having something that is overheard is no disrespect to the AFC Mike del tufo over there has the wrong button came on like that what year was single Terry inducted into the hall of fame. No chance that he was on a Mike and then. No chance that he even knows which team. Mike single Terry coaches in the af none. He absolutely knows. It's the Memphis express. So legally staying. Loyal sons are Marquette too. All right. I got the fight song. One more segment in you, get one more segment and big I'm here for you. Every got one more year with the because I need to know how the hell Mike del tufo got hired. The only hire the best the the AFC Charlie Ebersol a little bit more with my good, buddy. When we come back. Hello guys semi fighter shale Senate. Check out my podcast. You're welcome with chaleston every Wednesday and Friday right here at podcast one. We cover the latest in mixed martial arts and everything else. Going on in the world of sport. Listen free to your welcome with shale, son and exclusively available at podcast one dot com and on the podcast one app. If you love the show share with the friend and leave us a rating and review. Hey listeners just wanted to take a minute to thank all of my great sponsors. And all of you. Great listeners for supporting this podcast. Certainly couldn't do this show without either of you. And I wanted to remind you that you can support my sponsors by going to my show page at podcast one dot com. Clicking on the support this podcast button. And there you'll see all of my wonderful sponsors that helped make this show possible. So thank you for downloading subscribing. And of course, supporting now back to the show. Stay tuned for sixty seconds of AP news headlines right after this podcast run into navy for fifty percents off all old navy active two days, only tomorrow and Sunday, all your favorite active leggings. Hoodies smash teas and more fifty percent off tomorrow and Sunday at old navy and old navy dot com. Valid two twenty three to twenty four excludes in store clearance. This day in history the miracle on ice happened on this day back in nineteen. The puppy still eleven. Going on. You just get goosebumps and your Al and Ken dry, Charlie Ebersol here. The af was your dad thanking on the Olympics that time in one thousand nine hundred nineteen eighty. Wow. You're born two years later. Yeah. I do remember that. I remember that anybody better than all know, there's I mean, honestly, he called me. He called me just before kick-off, and he and Madden have been two of my sort of fan. Shirley, boy, call from him, Charlie. Boy, what he say to you. He said he said, you know, no matter what happens. Congratulations about law, and then I walked out of the game. And I'm walking to the press conference my phone rings and I- instinct of -ly answer it, and it's Al and he goes, do you believe and they stop? Data's moment. Professional career. Put everything else aside. When I I did the London game this year, and sent me a coup on Email, and I voted right away to Suzy who, you know, my wife, and she's just like we got a frame that. I everytime. I come on the show, but I just want to drive home. The fact when I first moved LA alone, and nobody you and Suzie took me in for thanksgiving dinner. Good man as are good people. I've been to fuel your good, man. You're you have a great. Great white. That's true. That's a fact nobody understands I think, well, I mean, I think I understand no interest. How great she is. I don't understand what trickery is being what I'm saying back to the mysterious. The beard. I think is the yes. And she was the big proponent of the beard. That's why that's why it said so much staying power like it. It's good. It's all it's gonna screw up. Your you're gonna be a lot less error dynamic this week. And by the way, you know, we're taking part I do know that the Memphis franchise is obviously the the official the official charity of the Memphis expresses chewed. And I think some of the members of the Memphis express are gonna run forties next week. I'm gonna members of all of our teams are out of boy, are you gonna forty. I'll be at the combine. No, no, no. I am really. But you're gonna get down there. And you're gonna you're gonna fire out you're gonna try and San Diego this weekend. Can I do it in a suit plea gas? It's your workplace. It's your workplace in your work clothes, and you're not in. And if anybody says, he's Rippin me off show them photograph of me, and the bomber jacket that you put me in back in the day greatest by the greatest moment of the whole show. It's like four AM read where at Alcatraz the head of the network is standing in eighteen inches of water rewriting the teleprompter, while rich standing on a rock doing this thing. Mitch, and I are looking at each other like is going right now literally going on with our lives. Hey, charlie. Congratulations. One one of the thing. I'd love to see the NFL adopt. The the onsite kick in quotes that you do has anybody dies converted a fourth and ten from there. Thirty in preseason. I don't know we've done at this season yet. It's show. Good on fourth and twelve it's fourth in two thousand twelve to. It's a mathematical equation fifteen is the exact same likelihood you have of getting of converting onside kick. Okay. Fourth in twelve four th and ten the percentages too. Right. Yeah. Twelve is is sort of. It's our Goldilocks. What is what is it? What's the percentage about the conversion? Yeah. Our conversion or or the NFL's converge twelve well, we haven't run any. So I mean in training camp. It was we were like thirty something percent love you wanna see. The hands team makes no sense. I love Charley congrats on everything going on. Thanks for the pin. I've been wearing my af pin this entire tune in this weekend, primetime Saturday and Sunday for those of you who are just not going to watch the Oscars. We wanted to give you something for you and tune in to San Antonio, San Diego. Hear how great it sounds, of course, for Mike del tufo, thanks for giving him another gig. But Sunday night baby Charlie ever sell here on the show, Stephen merchant when we return with the news update as you read up your engines with the start of NASCAR racing season podcast. One is your pitstop for the best car podcasting around team up with Adam Corolla and friends on car cast as they explore all aspects of the motive space then drive into the pit stop to talk motor sports with shifting steer. Then speed to the finish line and spikes car radio as comedy writer. Spike, verison hosts around table with celebrity friends about all things cars. Download car cast shifting steer and spikes car radio every week on. Podcast one or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Run into old navy for fifty percents off all old navy active two days, only tomorrow and Sunday, all your favorite active leggings. Hoodies mesh teas and more fifty percent off tomorrow and Sunday at old navy and old navy dot com. Valid two twenty three to twenty four excludes in store clearance. I'm Rita Foley with an AP news minute lawyers for actor Jesse Smolen. Call him a man of impact -able character and integrity, and they're slamming the cops smell. It's been charged with staging what he reported as a hate crime against him in Chicago, juicy Sma, let's attorneys say Chicago police put on an organized law enforcement spectacle. When Chicago police superintendent Eddie Johnson detailed findings about the alleged attack on the empire store yesterday. Absolute Justice would be an apology to this city that he smeared AC comments like that one have no place in the American legal system. I met small North Carolina election board is ordering a new congressional. Election in the ninth district after seeing evidence of ballot fraud the Vatican summit on clergy sex abuse is continuing with cardinals calling for a new culture of accountability. One says of the church's past we have failed we need to seek pardon. I'm Rita Foley.

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Episode 531: A Bullet for the General (1966)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:22:29 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 531: A Bullet for the General (1966)

"An airwave media podcast. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast. You hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws. Like jesse james butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache we use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple. Podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. All told with cinematic music sound design subscribed for free on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you're listening now show people say could to see this movie. When they go to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. Who dr Golden when the bully turns red general will be dead l. tunisia the band alenia gringos a side by side. They kill for what they believe. Goal el santo. The holy one. What the lord giveth took away. I'd alita woman. She gave aid and comfort to the enemy then blasted into pieces. General needed guns. He got one golden aboard for the general welcome to the projection booth. I'm your spike white. Joining me is mr andrew volt. Hey mike is great to be. Here is a ponta once. Also back in the booth is ms sam degan hello. We conclude spaghetti western month with damiano. Dumb yanni's ken saba from nineteen sixty six released in the us as a bullet. For the general it's the story of a mexican revolutionary l. Chucho is kind of more of a gun. Runner played by john. Maria valenti and his relationship with his brother l. santo. No not that el santo played by klaus kinski and a gringo. Chucho names nino played by lucas stelle. We will be spoiling the film as we go along. So if you haven't seen a for the general before go back and watch a film and come back. We will still be here so sam. When was the first time you saw a bullet for the general. And what did you think. I wanna say. It was probably sometime about ten years ago. When i started to get into some of the non-typical spaghetti westerns like the not super famous ones. And this is around. The time. That i fell in love with john. Maria volante who is quite possibly my favorite actor and he is incredible here especially the scene which will talk about where he waves a gold machine gun in the air and says the gold machine gun for the revolution so like how can you not love that. It's dynamite and andrew. How 'bout yourself. Probably the same. I would stay at ten years ago. I mean i've been obsessing about spaghetti westerns innocence so the good the bad and the ugly on bed. Amax went betamax. Actually i came out and it wasn't just the violence wasn't just the sun on humor. I think it was the the landscapes of southern spain that captivated me and set me on this path of obsessing about italian western towns in the south of spain i ended up going to l. maria and Spending a couple of trips to spain wandering around the old spaghetti western sets and working out this idea of the l. moran weston what that actually means as as a sub-genre of european cinema and bullet for the general. I think i saw before my first trip to l. maria and for me. It's one of the most perfect l. marine weston's because it incorporates so much of the landscape around Elmore and tiberan us and and that really craggy grey brown desolate landscape. It just absolutely blew my mind. And of course they lyrical angle. The the idea of the western completely captivated me as well send me off another down another rabbit hole and you know he. We are talking obsessively about bullets for the general. This is actually i. I'm watch for me. I had i knew. I knew about the film i'd read about the film. It was listed in the top. Ten of a lot of lists of spaghetti westerns. And think i've owned the film for years might have owned it in multiple formats and just kind of upgrading. It but never actually watched. It finally ended up watching it and watching. It really is fantastic. And i watched the this that. I bought a documentary about valenti as an extra and it was just a really great documentary talking about him and talking about how his acting led to him being more of a revolutionary which is hilarious. Because in this. He's not really a revolutionary. He's saying all the right things cave a mexico and all these things but really he is all about the money or at least at first. He's about the money and he's kind of outlaw and was very much an outlaw. And you know the very first thing that we have is the major set piece of this road robbery where he is robbing the train for guns. And wow what a way to start off the film but even before that the very first shot of the film is these guys who are marching in line and they get to a wall and they turn and then they're shot and it just sets the tone for the film perfectly. That's the battle. Lg is monument that opening the first time i saw it. I didn't really know what i was expecting. Because at that point. I hadn't seen a ton of spaghetti westerns. And so i figured it was gonna be this kind of slow atmospheric thing lots of great music shots of the desert in spain. And it's like. Wow okay here we go just. The pace of the film was so surprising to me. You know we have this major set-piece of this train robbery going on. And i love the way that we're introduced to valenti's character where you hear these drums. And you think that it's on the soundtrack but it's actually digest that he's seen drag on his horse. Oh it's so great kettle. Drums no lasts. I love it. He's hype man how baroque. There's also this gentleman on the train. El nino whose real name is what tate the lucas tell character. It's kind of good that we chose this as the last western of the month because this brings together a lot of other things that we've talked about in spaghetti western month. This you know the very first one we did. This month was modelo. Which had lucas style in here. We have him in a different role here. We've thought about clusky when we talked about the silence and then jan. Maria maria valenti. I've mentioned him several times. I've mentioned the role that he played in fiscal dollars. Four few dollars more and here he he so close to playing like the ramones seem obviously seem facial features. The same type of scraggly. Beard the mustache all this but you could not get further away from ramon than elko. Chucho who is just this amazing character. Just a ball of energy throughout so much of this film. Maybe one of you will know the answer to this. I don't entirely understand. Why but in all three of the films that you just mentioned at this time. He's like in his mid thirties. But in all those films they put all his grain his hair. It's like what why i mean. He looks insane which is great. And if anyone who is listening isn't super familiar with him. Possibly my favorite thing about him is that in every movie he just has wildly different hair and he is one of the world's greatest hair actors like if you watched investigation of a citizen above suspicion every time has character starts to lose it. His hair gets crazy. So i think that's may be kind of what's going on in these spaghetti western season but it's like why are they trying to egypt so much is probably stress. I mean so much happens to his character a name when when you see. His moustache has being plucked out by the common dance. I mean how much more of a violation of that character. Could you get than his beloved moustache being news well and as a man of federal facial hair you know how painful that can be just pluck a hair and he just keeps doing it over and over again and i could just feel every single time he did it. He's still pretty good natured. Though which i think is such a great contrast to how much violence he's capable of just how stoke teaches is about the gold plated machine gun on how many people it can kill in. How many kids. But he's almost jolly when you look at that and saporta western time line. I mean this is pretty much the first. Yeah the first one. The jeanmarie volante character trend show is pretty much a prototype of the character. The thomas million would play in all the subsequent zapata westerns. He's that brise. In opportunist absolutely flagrant opportunities to use the revolution as a way of being able to slither like a snake through the landscape for his own selfish purposes but then inadvertently becomes a revolutionary at the end and so this lays down the railway tracks for all of those capucci and sergio salima westerns. That follow when. I was watching it again this time around for the episode. It made me think a lot about something like rossellini general delaware overlay which for anyone who hasn't seen it set during the nazi occupation of italy in world war two when the italians have basically kind of given up. And there's this character who is a con artist. Who is pretty much forced to pretend that he's this hero of the resistance and he ultimately becomes one because he sort of in that role and it's just so interesting to think about how these certain definitely certain italian art house films but also the zapata westerns in particular. Take a really cynical honest. Look at why men engage in warfare and so often films. Try to present it as black and white thing like. Oh it's always for heroic reasons in your defending your country and when you actually look at the way people behave in wars even civil wars or revolutionary wars like the mexican revolution. Which is what these apollo westerns are. All about it's way more complicated to that. And i just love that. This whole cycle confronts that and it says like people are in this for a lot of different reasons and certainly they can change their political leanings. But that cynicism you gotta love it when you consider what. Italy went through during world war. Two that cynicism deserves to bay there but then you also have coming out of europe particularly italy that central figure of the trickster which is such a deep rooted cultural thing and so it finds purchase in the churn show character an and tomas milian characters and i would say that attallah particularly italian audiences for this film would have absolutely loved and you see the trickster evolve into the terence hill characters in the in the trinity films. A little time down. But certainly that idea of of someone being able to flip the tables and and One upped the authority figures at so anoc eq. And it's so deeply italian. I would say after watching so many italian films those type of trickster characters especially in these zapata movies and especially as portrayed by thomas million. I feel like they often have some subversive sexual themes going on as well like in thomas. John's case he often plays these characters. That are very kind of confrontational of machismo. And italian hetero normativity or whatever you wanna call it and in life was pretty much openly bisexual. Also i think he enjoyed playing those roles but even here the relationship between january allante character and lucas. Stelle is bizarre. It's very strange. Especially because lucas stahl looks like a toddler who just became an adult that giant head of his. But like are they in long kulik fatal attraction. I ready a reading the film last night. And i was just like okay. Yeah this makes total sense. And even alex cox coles at one of the greatest mile romances of the silver screen. And i mean you couldn't get more of a contrast between the craggy jan murray galanti and that smooth baby like exterior of of lucas stelle. Who looks like he wandered in from a thirties gangster. Movie the way he's dressed in how like clean. He is compared to everyone else in the film. Let's get baby-faced custodial at love when the lady is trying to put the stuff up above him in the train and she brushes against him he takes out the handkerchief and just get that off the even the very first time we see him where he just cuts to the front of the line to buy the tickets for the train. All men and that little kid from for a few dollars more like od. Like mexico's like no. I doubt and you'll get that repeated seeing both with a little kid and then also with the railroad line right towards the end. And it's just like wow. This is really nice. It's very very smartly directed and written. Yeah the first time. I saw i read him as just being super racist and that homo eroticism. That sort of like misogyny angled didn't even occur to me until now as a lot of figures in european left-wing cinema would have represented lucas stelle being that young height ful. Deeply selfish character is the united states in the eyes of berry left wing leaning filmmakers. And there's a point with a comment says he's american. He has no soul but he has a lot of dollars. Still accurate. lucasville is america is basically exploiting the situation south of the border for his own ends and yet he decides to share the loot with his would-be lover and save his life which is quite strange. Jeanmarie of the lotto course feeling intense loves betrayal decides to turn on your and because of that bond that has developed between the two he feels a betrayal so much more acutely. Yes kind of interesting that that. It's a look deeper than you would. Initially suspect so many westerns in gen especially american westerns but also a lot of the spaghetti westerns have these very complicated male relationships. Where sometimes they're these sort of love. Hate bonds like leaving cliff always has somebody who can't get rid of the hate him. 'cause he's got that know big daddy energy but this one is even stranger. I think because of the way the political shift plays out it's like he becomes a revolutionary Joe it's almost like he becomes a revolutionary because he's opening his eyes to the way that nino treats mexican people but also because of that betrayal that you're talking about such a weird perfect film. Who knows consob exactly after we have this opening what the train properly. I just love that. Basically goes into high gear and becomes a series of one robbery after another after another. After another and i was just like wait a second. Are we supposed to take a little bit of a break. You gets no these characters a little bit more. We get to know them. What's remarkable is that with. This gang actually started to learn their names which normally with gang. You wouldn't learn their names wouldn't know anything about them you would know like. Oh he's the singer. He's the jealous boyfriend and that there's a woman as part of the gang was really remarkable as well and that they use her in one of these ploys. I really like that where she comes in as pretending to be a prostitute and has her big trunk. And i love when she's got that big old cigar and lights the fuse on the trunk and then we have that great moment of the soldiers who are so happy to have this new prostitute that they're going to open up this bottle of champagne and as the court pops open. That's when the bomb goes off. It was just such a nice moment. And she hide behind her parasol. Yeah out from the rubble. With a parasol it's just astounding and probably five minutes. Later after all this carnage has gone. You see chen show and he's walking around just guzzling champagne. That's really nice. John maria volonte in general is a very physical actor. Like he's always like sweating or gesturing or making his hair all crazy like he's very active and here. He's eating an almost every scene. he's either eating or drinking. But not like just taking a bite in chewing. He's actively stuffing it's mouth and as many scenes as possible. It's breath breathtaking on cal pretty much the entire film. Oh yeah. I have an endless supply of that in his pocket. Well that pays off to that moment when he rides into the generals camp. And there's the guy who's just like yeah we haven't eaten we've you know we have nothing and he's got that big old loaf of bread that he's just been stuff into his mouth me just like okay. I guess i'll give this a loaf of bread and it's such a bother for him. But i think that's actually kind of one of the first moments where he has empathy for somebody other than himself. Jesus marmots it is but speaking of jesus moments and empathy. This is the single most empathetic character. That klaus kinski has ever played. This is the only time in a movie. i think i've seen him in where he doesn't look like a complete psychopath. Though he has moment. Does we psychotic to see that little twitch in the side of his mouth and i'm just like oh boy he's about to go off don't like when he. He has his great scene where i love the scene in particular because i feel like it provides such an important balance point but they come into town and they're killing all these soldiers and there's a moment where you feel like okay. This is a bloodbath. These are bad guys and klaus kinski of all people sees these poor people who have been kept in this like underground open air prison and they're starving. They're basically dying of thirst and he looks deeply moved and sets them free. And you think like okay. Maybe they're not all bad and maybe some of them do wanna do the right thing for the country but then his way of punishing the officers who imprison them is to just put them in the same jail while having that facial tic like he's about to go off and condemning them to stop today's a goss 'lie-in than a father them. Yeah john maria just wanted to take their champagne and shoot them but clients engine soon when he pops up and hand-grenades like for the father the son sun all the spirit. I'm having a location nerd. You know where that scene was shot. It's a building called kotido. Don't fry it's the monastery from the good the bad and the ugly. I thought it looked so much of this. Looks really familiar to me. And i'm sure that's why it's all films pretty much within a twenty kilometer radius of l. maria. There's there's one little village. The village of san miguel is a little bit. Further to the west southeast of granada in a little village called pelotas. And where lucas. Stelle shoots the. The general is about climate down the hill from there but but The monastery from the bad and the ugly. It's south of tebessa south of The gray brown hills that you see all the way through the film. It's a little bit south heading towards the coast about five minutes. Drive from the village that lebron cleef and jan maria volante have this shoot at in for a few dollars more. No wonder it looks familiar to imagine it. You're driving around this place. And like i literally did drove around for about three days looking at Looking at all of these locations and sourcing the locations that monastery Which features quite heavily in the good the bad. The ugly is now a condemned building. But my friend. Hayes is still manage to sneak in through the bob wa. Of course you did and locals called the cops on us. We're running around the crumbling. Wolves going allow united taking photos of everything and all of a sudden at comcast dot circling the perimeter. Shit it's the fuzz will literally trying to hide behind the wolves trying to evade the cops and then ran out. Screw the hole in the wall back into the car and sped off down towards less albiric orcas so yeah so when i look at that building i go oh man. That's where almost got arrested. So bandits now is what you're saying because of this emma bandido. He's now a member of the hole in the wall game. That was that was very. There's such good use of the landscape. We talked a little bit about the train scene. that's fantastic. there's one moment when and it was very unexpected. You just don't necessarily see this. But nino comes down with malaria and they stop after fucking neo murdered. The last guy in the gang man. He's such a dick. And it's like i'm trying to think that pretty much from the first time you see this guy you're like he's up to no good but then we just keep seeing a we the audience keep seeing more and more of these moments and really. It takes a long time for show to finally see that. He's no good but he doesn't see that el nino murders the last guy in the gang. Throw the money away and it's just like. Oh yeah let's go. And they're riding along nina's not looking good and they stop and they rest for a little while that shot of him leading menial into this decrepit building. And you've got the sunrise going down on the right side of the screen. It is one of the most beautiful shots in the entire film and this film. That's filled with really nice shots gorgeous and wedded to the soundtrack. Well i mean. We have to talk about the music. Which makes that film galloped. Along you know there is this relentless pace to the film which is powered along by that. Jaunty mariachi musical must from a spanish composer as well. That's what i like. So much about these as they go along as i feel like they start to include more spanish talent like actors as well on cinematographers especially. And so like. I know they're italian films. But because of the sort of range of cast and crew members they just feel like this european mash up sometimes but in a perfect way when you look at the division of labor there are some films which are exclusively spanish. They don't necessarily sit in the canon of great european weston's and a lot of the italian ones that were just shot in italy with no spanish talent. They're also they also suffered the same fates. It's usually the co-productions. The ones that do have the majority of spanish talent in front of and behind the camera that works so well because without those vistas you know without the mexican looking extras. Who incidentally were all mostly gypsies. They would round up the local gypsy camp and stick them in sombreros. And say you now. Mexicans with these zapata westerns. That to me is one of the most interesting kind of like problem. Solving things is who we cast as mexican. What they actually look like. And where they actually. From like martine beswick. Who is wonderful as ed alita. But she already is kind of exotic looking because her background is very mixed. I think like she's british but not jamaican. Yes that's right And didn't she grow up. Her father was a diplomat or something. She grew up in the islands. Something like that but they put this weird kind of. I'd never noticed this. Until i watched the blu ray recently. They put this kind of kiki looking makeup on her. That i think is supposed to make her look mortagne. But she's already tan she using brown fights Your imagination okay. Good i was like. Is that just my tv looking weird. But it's it's like not much darker than the color of her actual skins. It just seems like a very strange choice. It's only the kill. Of course clubs kinski being the most spanish looking person that you could ever find on earth. They're blonde spanish people. The viking raids went down that coast so at least they say he's my half brother rather than my full because they look nothing alike but he's so good in. I love that character. And i hate that. Sometimes he disappears from the screen. Like not even just when he's in semi me and the rest of them go and see the general. It's while they're even doing these rates at times it feels like disappears and it's like oh come on back claus i really want to see more of you and i wouldn't be surprised if that was donal. Not getting along with kinski because it sounds like he really had his hands full between valente and kinski imagine sent him to madrid for awake and say look. Here's a bag of money just going to spend your time with prostitutes. Yeah here's one bag of money and one bag of coke. Could you get cocaine and italy at that time. Probably not one bag of money but then close kinski character makes that incredible reappearance at the end when Show is being condemned by his hero. Elliot's and the look of betrayal on santa's face is incredible when he he's looking at his brother who's sold out an entire village and i'm sure santa was probably witnessed to the mac massacres. Well since he was still there waiting for his half brother to retain and I think the look on his face when the crowd pots and kinski standing there in judgment of his brother. That is one of the great class kinski mountains. And i'm i'm totally with sam. I believe that Class was hotly better. It's almost a restrained performance yet. It is restrained. Claus is one of those actors. There's definitely a handful of them. Like this. nicholas cage. I think is the most modern example but where their style of acting is just always to eleven. I think a lot of the time they give better performances. When they're not just frothing at the mouth the whole time trying to be on and this is such a perfect example of that for me with claus because he's understated and i'm sure at this point anybody watching this movie for the first time. Who's a cult film fan. We'll know who he is and will expect a certain thing from him. And i think because the movie doesn't give you that it's almost even better the nicholas cage film pig is out right now. Where he gives one of those much more low key performances and he's getting you know accolades for it and rightly so because yeah he doesn't have to be at eleven every single time. It's great when he is but yet this is one of those moments in. This is definitely a great kinski moment than having just seen him. And the great silence. I mean it's just like wow this guy. What an amazing performance he can give him both of these films either completely desperately in the great silence but living within the law and then also here just this priests on the side of the revolution so it kind of puts him in an interesting place and it gets the breakout. Everyone's wildlife hand-grenades but yet when he comes through and it's just like this is my brother. I need to take care of this and It is so great. I also love their dialogue exchange. At the end where john maria is a dozen ever put up a fight like i really can't believe how good natured elchin show is for the whole film regardless of what's happening to him or what he's doing but he he walks off and says yeah. Okay you can kill me just not in this patch of of land that smells like goats we have to go a little further and then asks you know are you gonna shoot me in the head or are you gonna shoot me on the hard. Yuck essence yes. Because he's being judged by his hero and he realizes he's being a complete shit then he goes well fair coal and like he knows you don't get characters like that very often in these sorts of violent masculine world type movies where you have somebody who is instantly capable of self reflection and who realizes okay. I did something bad. That's the great thing about the trump show character that he he does have a series of epiphanies and they don't lead to instant enlightenment. Transformation but it's very slow series of of transformations which then you're off after which he reverts back to his normal selfish self but the moment where he's teaching the peasants the peonies in san miguel had a shoot rifles because he wants to a general. Yeah obviously realizing that is massacred all of those people that he wanted to be their savior and then of course the betrayal by el nino. It's those moments which lead him to suddenly go revolution. It's also really interesting. And i think refreshing to see a film about a revolution about leftist politics made by so many people who had those politics like. Obviously we mentioned john. Maria allante at the beginning of the episode super devout active leftist. But lucas stelle was basically kicked out of italy for being a to active member of the communist party. And if you don't know who he is. He's actually a swiss actor because his father really was a diplomat in south america. He grew up just all over the place from a pretty young age. Had those really active politics. But also i love that. Carla grevena is in this. She plays rosaria. Who is the wife of the dawn that they they steal his land steals car and execute him for basically for the crime of being rich but his wife who puts up such a protest she was. I think at that point or shortly after that. A pretty prominent member of the italian communist party and was john revlon's as longtime partner. So they were sort of hand in hand during the years of lead trying to help out as many italian revolutionaries as they could when we talked about el nino being america and here. He is going south of the border illegally to take out a leader of revolution. Not that we would ever have done anything like that in our political history. Never i wonder if the cia got the idea from watching this movie while in the also this is nineteen sixty six the way that he sees where the generals at and then immediately turns and sees basically the perch where he is going to take him out. I'm just like this. Feels very kennedy to me. This feels really kennedy. And when the what was that an italian weston that pretty much recreates the kennedy assassination prices at high. I watched that recently for the first time in my mind was blown. Isn't that incredible film. It's insane yeah if you've never heard of that it's a spaghetti western that basically recreates the kennedy assassination but changes some of the details so that it can be set in like the early nineteen. Hundreds is wild. Sogo that could be sold to america garfield. Yeah they can't call the character kennedy. It's interesting too that they don't show the shot and that they don't as far as i remember they. Also don't show the shot. that takes out el santo. Now they're react your they'll show you. The reaction shot on shows faces trench. Oh expecting that. He's the one who's about to be shot. But then he sees his brother get killed and then he hears that announcement. Somebody shouts out that. The general was shot with a gold bullet in. He's like wait a minute because he had already seen that gold bullet in el ninos stuff when he went through when he was helping him get better not through quinine but through moscow and i'm surprised that he ever made a recovery. Hey says cow. It's like a. What's that that american drama about all those greek people where the fathers like just spray. Some windex on it. And you'll be fine big fat greek wedding. Yes it's him in the mess cal he's like. It's good for when you're sick. It's good for when you're tired. It's good for sex mess. Cal the cure all letting you're pencil gringo. And then the ad that end that last bit of the film when he it reminded me a little bit of The shawshank redemption has just like. Hey if we ever get separated me at the l. zone nato or whatever it is and shawshank and it's just like oh yeah i'll be at this hotel and i love how castel comes in just again wearing the suit looking like the gangster he pants. Oh yeah and where's trench show. He's over with the peons laying on a park bench and just like waiting for him to come back in and that amazing almost execution scene that happens then but how they know is going to give you this money. And then it's the i mean. Got it is so judas. Oh no here. I want my money in gold pieces. I don't want it in paper. I wanted to gold pieces. Almost make a point when he realizes oh shit that scene could have been done much more quickly than it actually is and i love that they sort of drag it out with all those details like el nino makes the hotel desk clerk read to show this note that he's written him in case they get separated in. It's like he could have just so he could have said to him in a quick line of dialogue. I left this for you in case we didn't meet up but it just it feels very much like some sort of lovers quarrel type thing like it feel so personal very much. Let's meet at the top of the empire state building revolution to remember. Yes and he forces them to get a makeover. We even have the montage scene. As i was watching that i was just like got. This feels like jimmy stewart watching. Kim novak it made over here you also notice. That nina was lying across a mommy. Figure a woman who is probably at least three times his age. And it's almost like she suckling him when he's laying back. I'm pretty sure that was deliberate. Oh it had to have been considering the way. His character interacts with women throughout the whole film. I made this comment earlier. But i think the first time i watched this. I assumed that the movie was trying to code him as being racist against mexicans because the gang when he joins up with them tries to kind of tease him about. Oh you know. We're going to this town tonight. You can get yourself a woman. And he's like i'm not interested and is not at all interested in at alita but seems very interested in in rosario in the don's wife who looks very dressed very upper class and she's much paler she doesn't look mexican basically and it just seems so weird that she's the one that he kind of gives the most attention to and then as soon as atalanta's wearing her clothes then he pays attention to adelaida. It's very strange. And when he's watching valente dance with the woman. If this were any other western. Maybe we'd see those two ben dancing together but it was just like okay. This is interesting in felt very much like go dance. You know and i will watch you. And i will take notes. This book pasolini western. Oh my god. Or so lucas style. Has this great role and fast benders. Beware of the holy whore and fast bender made this western. That is one of my favorite movies of all time. Gets like zero attention called whitey. Fast bender had made a western. With lou custodial and john maria they definitely would have been dancing together and they definitely also would have had a shootout at the end and there would have been a bag of coke. There's certainly would have both on screen and off. And i don't think it's any coincidence. That when he finally shoots custodial that he shoots him in the heart. You know it's very very much like new betrayed me and now i'm going to get back at you. It's very much that Almost lovers kiss at the end. It reminds me so much of those melodramas. Where like person is getting on the train and the other person is staying behind. And they're doing that sort of like tearful parting scene and it is a tearful parting scene except of course Fucking shoots him in the heart. I'm gonna he didn't have a coming he's crying and then he basically lose. This is mind. He comes to his senses. I love how wild valentic's money breaks through and pie dynamite. Yes he gives them all of his gold and says don't buy bread with this money by dynamite any look so happy and then runs off between the train cars and just into infinity. I just love that shot because you really never see him leave he just goes forever as the credits start to roll disappears into a dot and it's nice that he's still alive at the end of this film. I'm glad that they didn't make a bullet for the general too but it was very nice. He doesn't you know he's he is enlighten. Now he has come to a census and maybe he will help the revolution will everybody else dies. Charles accept him. But i also love that whole arc begins with the train sequence and also ends with a totally different kind of train sequence and i love the line of dialogue acknowledging that where nino asks him. Have you ever been on a train. And he says oh twelve or thirteen. And he's like no no no. I mean as a passenger. Oh yeah first. Time location time now. That station i believe is the x. Which is about an and hops drive from l maria and that entire railway line between gordon six and l. maria every time you'd see a train In a spaghetti western nine times out of ten. It's that railway. Line between albury and guava aches at a possible through a little hamlet cold lacombe ahora and that was the town that qassemi built for once upon a time in the west. So you can actually stand at. The remains of that station am watched the trains go through. Because it's still an operational train line like kota. The train from elementary to seville one time. And you actually go through those embankments the cut into the into the rock. You know when the when the train is ambushed and you see the you see john maria playing drum. That's the train. Line actually cut into the mountains around tiberan s. and l. maria. The still at guanacaste still pretty much looks like that. They've kept the eighteen hundreds character so the colored tiles in the background. You can still stand in that room and look at the same tiles. Let the outside of the station is a completely different building. That is the station at l. Maria big beautiful ornate domed building that rod steiger and james coburn walkout of in a fist full of dynamite. Oh wow that's crazy. Train equals that singular line between one small town and l. maria. Yeah and it being an operational trainline means you can actually get an locomotive on there which they house in good. Ix you can actually see those trains within a railway museum and so the the place is still cruel in with straight with cinema history. It's like making a pilgrimage to these places because it. I call it sacred geography. The you actually stand on the on the same spot where. Gm valentine klaus kinski stood and you can feel that energy you know. It's it's about as closest to religious experiences. Probably ever get there. Is something very surreal visiting a film location for a film that you've seen a lot of times because you feel like you know the area or it's very familiar but it has that sort of uncanny valley type thing where you've experienced it but you haven't really physically experienced with like so many of my memories of growing up are not actual memories. Their home movies. So the i've absorbed those home movies enough for just like. Oh yeah. I remember going to that park. But it's like no. There's a film of that so that that's where you have that memory from for me you know standing on the top of the hills and al maria looking down into the rambler and you can see in bullet for the general the chasing the general's representatives through the s shaped rambler of stood on the top of one of those hills instantly. I'm nine years old again. Watching the good the bad and the ugly for the first time. You know what i mean. It's such a pot of dna that you have these images of now you're actually able to physically touch the objects that you've venerated from a distance and that have only existed in memories of moving images that you've been removed from now you no longer removed. Yeah you're feeding off that physical geographic energy. It's also funny to think about how westerns as a genre are so dependent on that particular location. I feel like there. Aren't that many other genres at least colt movie genres. That are like that. Where such a big part of why people watch the films and how they're made are really so dependent on location and with these. It's so fascinating because it's just like through this prism it's like an entire Talion reinterpretation of an american sub-genre but actually set in mexico but actually shot in spain. It's just just this wonderful fantastical reinterpretation of these like historical and cultural themes. I was surprised. Frankly when he ended up meeting the general the general wasn't a bad guy for some reason. I thought for sure he would finally meet the general general. Just be corrupt an awful and cartoon villain yeah stash. And when he gets the The five thousand pesos. For selling all the guns including the amazing golden machine gun got it when he goes up and he's supposed to talk to the general. I was just like okay. Somehow the general is going to be like. don't you want to support the cause. Don't you wanna put your money where your mouth is. And just basically be. They're absorbing money and guns from the sky just be one hundred percent corrupt and when he lays out what happened at san mcguire. It's like all different person. Not what i was expecting. A lot of the reason for that is because we're so used to seeing these sorts of movies that feature revolutionary heroes being made by some very different politics so they tend to present the revolutionary heroes as flawed as fundamentally bad people cartoon villains yet totally as cartoon villains. Because of course you have to be on the side of capitalism always so it's great to see one of these movies made predominantly by people with left wing politics because of all those little surprises. Like that where you're like well wait. He's there's not something more going on. He's actually just a good guy but the thing is all of the peonies you know. They all have dignity as well except for the guys who are dropping their rifles. But the guy who confronts don felipe. Hey in his farmhouse. And don philippe says you. You want to kill me. Because i'm rich. The the guy says no. I want to kill you. Because i'm poor and you kept the poor and all so here's your critique of capitalism in a tiny little colonel in like a ten second moment it's glorious. Okay yeah i can get behind that statement. There are so many of those similar scenes in movies where people especially poor people who have become outlaws and criminals are up against these corrupt rich people. And it's always that language of you just hate us because we're rich. You just hate us because you know we were successful and we worked hard and got these things that you didn't get an it's like no. That's not the reason you would just lazy peasants yes. Why don't poor people buy more money. If they would just get off their lazy asses. Well they could borrow more are. That's the that's the american way on. Now i know why you go into this program. Because i'm on the non-american unlike the damiano damiani character who can criticize america with impunity. Oh we can tell. We just probably will get angry. We will both get angry comments on social media about it. Well what. What i wanna know is when was it a bad thing to be communist. When did it become actually a bad thing. Are you asking this as a real questioner. As a hypothetical question is genuinely real question. You know when when was a bad thing to not be a liquor of the ruling elites a big part of the problem is when people in western europe and the united states finally realize basically when people in the west finally realized what stalin had done all of those right wing capitalist governments sort of use that as propaganda and said yes. Look all communists want these atrocities and so that's one of became not okay to be. Communist is because being communist suddenly immediately meant that you were associated with stalin and totalitarianism. And i think that you know was sort of the tipping point there in the late sixties especially the early seventies when all of those really radical filmmakers kind of had to take a step back and say like. Do we still want to be associated with the communist party. And so i think in the seventies after all of those really incredible protests in sixty eight and sixty nine. I do think there's this backlash where people are just confused about what they're supposed to be associated with and once the best way to protest and what's the best way to be radical. I mean we saw things like mile. Who was taking you know this farming nation and turning it into a much advanced society but then he does something like the cultural revolution where he just murders all the intellectuals and artists. And it's like okay. Well that puts a real kink in my chinese fetish. So that's why we've got you know good are making less in one. These things were just like well. I was supporting this. But now i don't know anymore and i can't admit that i'm wrong. Ever a big part of the problem is none of them one. Admit they're wrong. I mean sort of all those sort of like more famous. Intellectuals was like the last person to renounce his communist party membership and he just didn't want to admit that he was wrong. It's like all i get your dicks out of the way and just like stop tripping over yourselves in. They managed to to combine communism and socialism. So much that now in twenty twenty one people are lobbying around communist and socialist like their insult terms where it's like. I don't actually see anything wrong. With socialism equals read. Well there's nothing wrong with communism. There's just a lot wrong with stalinism. I think we will agreeing with the answer. Yes what stalin did was wrong in. What i did was wrong. And even when you go to china now they'll say yeah we've got pictures of mao all over the place but he did some really bad things. Okay thank you for at least. You're admitting that. I wanted to go all the way back to the beginning of the movie real quick. And that's a little bit about el santo. Being this monk character. I love that one of the first images that we see in the movies super religious and it is the captain from the army. Who's been crucified. And that's what's stopping the train and while crucified. But it's very much a crucifixion. Even though he's chained to this cross. And i love this lieutenant on the train and lieutenant is powerless to think on his own. And he is desperate to get to this captain and what to do everything he can't get orders from the captain and the way he's crawling underneath the train to get to the captain and i have to say. I don't think we've actually brought this up. But this is incredibly if not wonderfully violent film and some of that violence like i said his off screen so you don't see the general assassinated you don't see outside to get a bullet in the head but you do get to see a lot of other people dying. There's a lot. I thought the firing squad seen the fighting squad comes back several times throughout the thing but the moment that really just sent chills down my spine was when they finally start the train going again and it is inevitably going towards the captain. And you don't see him get killed but you do see that wonderful shot of the sword on the track run over by. Oh man like it is so brutal. What a better comment about organized. Religion can't remember which character. I think it's says why should so many people die for one man. You know why should so many people die in the name of jesus the captain. I'm not actually sure who plays him but he's incredible because he has that line where the lieutenant is trying to decide is just like at a loss and there's so much in this movie so much really subtle stuff about people just wanting to follow orders people just wanting someone to tell them what to do so the lieutenant is like desperately shouting down the train to this poor man tied to the train tracks tied to across asking him for orders and it's just so comical but the guy eventually shouts back. You know what you need to do. I'm not going to order you but work it up yourself yet. But he also says the life of one person is not worth the life of many and so it's like those lines are repeated. But i think trench oh says it again later when he talks about jesus logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of few one. It's a very pointed critique it these sort sacrificial forms of organized the word totally and i think the sword also is very purposefully used because you could see it as being a symbol of this educated military class officers because officers were the only ones who would carry those kinds of swords and so instead of literally showing him get run over the sword snapping in half feel like it just has such great resonance like it's not just destroying one man it's destroying also everything he represents so it privileged klotz so why should so many poor people suffer for one privileged guy. That scene is absolutely loaded with very sought on a cuma. But there's also through the film. No real silliness and goofy huma. Which almost seems at odds with the The serious and the cynical tone. They sit perfectly well because it is this european. Mix of the silly and the series. It's the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down. I mean it is just that goofiness doesn't make it so this movie it's just bashing you over the head with anything feels very of a piece even though there are these tonal shifts in there but it doesn't feel like you're getting whiplash like whoa wait a second. What is this doing here. What why is this here. We've just had to being a goofy sort and no way now. we're talking about massacres assassinations. This is too heavy but no it feels very much of a piece to me. It also makes me think a lot of recently. I watched fistful of dollars. And you jimbo pretty close together and it struck me. How much more of that goofy humor is in your jimbo than fistful of dollars. And it provides such an important balance. And i think it makes the characters seem so much more complex with very little expository dialogue and in fistful of dollars. There could be a little more humor. Maybe more of people making fun of clinton meal. Yes i mean. Because that's the most quotable scene in the film apart from aim for the heart. Ramon but really for me. It's not gonna apologize to the thing. I also thought it was interesting that there's a one town where she goes in and finds the younger boy that can read them right. Who was educated by again going back to religion. He was educated by monks and so he puts that guy or that kid. I should say in charge. I thought that was a really nice touch and then that kid comes back later on. I don't know if he makes it through the movie but it was kind of interesting. That should show is the guy who says who who can read and write and then put that person in charge but he also interrogates him and says who can read and write but now. Why can you read and write. Are your parents wealthy or the poor. But he was also put in charge of san. Miguel santiago completely wiped out. Remember so i don't think he made it to the end of the film now. Probably not it though. If he's anything like an american mayor he would be hiding out in some rich person bunker while everyone else was executed. So maybe he made it. He's the next dictator takeout and bullet for the general Yeah i'm surprised that we don't get like more of santos guys just like him and whole cadre of killer monks. That'd be pretty neat. That would be i. We should mention that You know there's this film is at the start of a beautiful ten years stretch of commercial and artistic hits from damiani and for some bizarre reason he chose to book aims this ten year period with bullet for the general and then a genius. Two partners joop aka. Nobody is the greatest with terence hill. A very strange choice of comic weston which doesn't have any of the graph tasks or the or the artistic genius of of Both for the general. It's almost like it's a throwaway film and it's almost like them You know almost Throwing away whatever goodwill that he built up with for general i was reading and i don't know why and i'm wondering if that shift towards i guess commercialism that you're talking about it seems like pasolini really hated him and i don't exactly know why maybe he felt like you know he started off making these more political films than than just kind of gave up. Maybe that was some of the higher. I'm not really sure. But don't forget that he wound up making amityville to the possession. It sounds like i'm making a joke. But it's fucking wild. It's really grim. It's way better than the first movie and has this crazy is political. I guess you could sort of argue that it is. i mean. it's all about this family who moves into the the original house from the first movie but the possession isn't chocked up to this supernatural thing not entirely it's basically like the teenage son has grown up in this abusive family and has these strict catholic parents who it's implied that the father like rapes and beats his wife. And there's this crazy. Incest subplot between the two teenage children. And because the sun is in this house and there's this supernatural influence. He loses his shit and murders his entire family. It's crazy so lots of weird stuff going on there about italian at italian american masculinity and catholicism's sort of running amok and being oppressive saw unseen since it came out so i should really go back and revisit. So weird sounds like fun. It is incest as alice. Final ways. Yeah there's a scene where he steals his teenage sisters panning for some reason quality cinema but part of that ten year dream run of damiani includes all of those you know political crime films like with franken ideal Confessions of a police. Captain how to kill a judge and i would think a lot of people compare his films to stood your salima because that left wing western angle for me. He's more philosophically aligned with some like elliot petrie investigation of a citizen under suspicion. They shave jan murray of allante. They obviously share your enthusiasm with as okay ask. Should we all. But his politic demiana is Political films of cynical deeply moral so. I think there's a shared lineage. There you know as they as they navigate through the late sixties into the very deeply cynical seventies after his. Run with franco nero. I know he made a couple of films with giuliano gemma that i think maybe are the last of that sort of political gasp before he was just kind of making genre films to make a living but he worked with definitely some of the greats. We're talking about religion before. And i just wanted to bring up the one thing for forget. Which was i love when he actually confronts el-nino about the golden bullet and el ninos excuses. Oh it's a lucky charm. And then pulls out this thing and i couldn't really tell what it was but i was listening to. The italian watched the second time in italian with english subs and for sure he says crystal and i'm just like oh okay so it's a little thing of christ's that is around us. I was expecting across to be pulled out but it seemed like even cheaper than that it was almost like a cutout of a piece of paper initials. Say oh this is my lucky charm. Like i thought it was a piece of wood from the original cross. Maybe i was on meds. Calendar had too much mass cal. I thought it was some kind of paper. Talisman type thing. They both have their lucky charms. And one of them's going to be used to murder the other person's hero have sleep okay. He's way he's gullible in the way. That people are gullible when they're in love. Yeah he overlooks all of ninos flaws. And that he even calls him nino child. It's like okay. That's what happens when you fall in love with a faysal assassin. Nothing good can come out of it. Even for a jesus slash judas character like couldn't you. There is a lot going on in this movie and it. It still amazes me that there's a whole cycle that started with this all about the mexican revolution. It just seems like a strange or maybe unexpected subject. But i'm so glad that they veered into that. Different geographic and political territory will once they stumbled into andulucia around the grey brown mountains to baroness and found the sand dunes. They went my god. We've discovered mexico. We can make films about mexico here and staying. That was very transformative because in very stark contrast with the western in the north of the country around barcelona and Around the mountains around madrid which are very grain or snug coverage When you do the drive from madrid down to l. Maria you can literally see the countryside change kala. It goes from green to that gray brown and all of a sudden. It's it's filled with. Olive grows and you go. Okay still a little grain but then you hit andalousia and it is dust and sand and bayrock and sage bushes. And you can't get more mexico looking or or you know. Southwest america than that and i think all of a sudden filmmakers were thinking shit you know now now we have this location. We can stop thinking about stories to feature within that location and out of l. Maria comes the cepeda weston's and i think pretty much all of those Co gucci ian. Salima films was shot within a twenty kilometer radius elmer itself which makes it a magical place were the pilgrimage. Yes you should set up your own. Like tour guide wanted to. I try to a couple of years ago. And and then coded head. And i'm eric and into a tv series. It's going to be one of my projects. Over the next couple of years taking people around to baroness and he was called film safari. You had a whole thing. All they will do it as soon as we've been allows me to and And i honestly believe that it would make a great cable show. I think so too film nerds running around film like going. Holy shit. that's the main star from company eros. I have to have me on their banging drums saying this is exactly where john maria stood. When when i will pay you say just to watch you like kettle drums in hand. I'll drown shit. That's an oral contract or my gun. I feel somewhat committed all right guys. Let's go ahead and take a break and we're gonna play preview for next week. Show right after these brief messages. I want you to start living a happier life today. As the listener the projection booth. You will get ten percent off your first month at better. Help dot com. That's better help. H. e. l. p. It's a great service which is available for clients worldwide. it is not a crisis line. It's not self help. Is a professional. Counseling service done securely online. You could timely and thoughtful responses when you send a message to your counselor anytime day or night. Plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. This is of course all without ever having to sit in uncomfortable waiting room. Go ahead tick advantage of this offer. Get ten percent off your first monthly visit by visiting our sponsor better help dot com slash projection. Booth join over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help. H. e. l. p. dot com slash projection booths to the old west is an iconic period of american history. Legendary names of the era still resonate today. Jesse james billy the kid butch and sundance wider p- bass reeves and the texas rangers sitting bull crazy horse. Geronimo and many more. The gunfights bank robberies train robberies and battles are still featured in movies and tv shows but on the legends of the old west podcast. You'll get the true stories and i promised. A true stories are just as action packed as the movies if not more. So i'm chris wimmer join me for the only in depth long form storytelling podcast dedicated to the old west. They'll give you the true story with cinematic production value enhanced by music and sound effects. Find legends of the old west on apple podcasts. Spotify pandora amazon music or wherever. You're listening now. American history is full of infamous people places and events. You've ever wanted to know the true story of the salem which trials for the nineteen nineteen world series baseball scandal known as the black sox scandal or hear about the masterful escape attempts from alcatraz prison. Or the mysteries of the bermuda triangle or hear the crazy details of gangsters. Assassins in thieves. Like db cooper bonnie and clyde john dillinger. John wilkes booth and lee harvey. Oswald join me on the infamous america. Podcast i'm your host chris. Wimmer on this podcast. You'll get the indepth true stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. The stories are all told with cinematic music and sound design and there are already more than one hundred episodes waiting for you to binge subscribe or follow the infamous america podcast on apple. Podcasts spotify pandora amazon music. Or wherever you're listening now you obviously podcasts. But are you also a fan of movies and television. Do you want to listen to a show that reviews entertainment honestly and cast pretentiousness to the wind. The debates bull film and tv topics in a fun. Good spirited way while still get into the heart of why we all loved them so much than doe missy award winning weekly podcast. The hollywood outside now available on your favorite podcast poor and the hollywood outsider dot com. Hey fans this is reverend scott. Just want to tell you about outside the cinema. Great company review cult films any cult film every called film. And it's something you should tune into so he could get a chance. Go to the website. Look these guys up outside the cinema and find out what the hot cult films are today. What's going on. These guys are right on the cutting edge of reviewing colt movies. If you're a cult member want to be a cult member you're thinking about being a cult member your mom's a cult member your dad's a cult member you're damned mother-in-law's cope member and outside the cinema baby you know find out what's going on reverend scott and that's out i'm chris cooling from forgotten. Tv and you're listening to the projection booth. The ultimate movie podcast. Don't plummet know the complex again woah. I don't walk through. Sonic youth owned by. I this on and it's not a book also mobile enough put. Thanks tom from the number but you can. You can boom a little more than i. Poppy martin that's right. We'll be back next week with tuckey booty as we kick off a month looking at movies from africa until then i wanna think co-host hindrance sam so andrew. It's the latest from down under sir. First of all. I have to say thank you so much for letting me come on rant and rave about l. maria. It's it's a pleasure and a privilege. I'm doing the lockdown thing. Basically working on about full projects at once while selling things on the online store that i sit up during covert Trash video archives dot com with printing up neat t shirts like santa versus the vampire women and for your height only. I'm hoping finish by the end of this year. A documentary on a melbourne hottest punk-rock. Fred negro which is his real name. Crazy of David alan combe meets g g. Allan meets viz comics. meets all kinds of craziness. He's a really interesting character. And i'm doing a book and documentary on suarez. The filipino director of cleopatra wong and the one armed excecutioner. So i will have stuff to tour america before you know it soon as the vote is open. I'm there mutuals and sam. How about you. what's going on with you. i am of course already working on a new book My book about world war two the legacy of world war two in european art house cinema came out just a couple months ago I also started a new podcast called to which the death nerve which looks at sort of psychotic cinema more. Broadly and will definitely have some spaghetti western episodes in the future. And you can find that at the cineplex punks network and basically everything. I'm working on. You can find listed at my patriot on which is just patriot dot com slash sam. And thank you so much for letting me talk about john maria. It's my favorite thing to you will thank you so much guys for being on the show. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks especially to our patriot community. If you want to join the community visit patriot dot com slash projection built every donation. We'd get helps the projection booth take over the world Seen this saw abba cussing mickey As the yoda maybe an the model. They're their home to the end of this episode of the rejection food and as the end credits roll. We wanted to thank you the listening audience here at the projection booth with host extraordinaire bag. An airwave media podcast.

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Alexander Vindman on Doing What's Right

Kickass News

44:02 min | Last month

Alexander Vindman on Doing What's Right

"You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Okay so most of us need to have great ideas consistently in order to succeed in our job but where do great ideas come from. And how can you increase your chances of having that great idea right when you need it. I'm todd henry bestselling author and host of the accidental creative podcasts. Join me for a weekly conversation with brilliant creative professional's authors and leaders about how the thrive in today's marketplace. We discuss everything from managing time and reclaiming focus to discovering. What really fuels your best work. Each week you'll discover how to be prolific brilliant and healthy in life and in worked. So if you find that you also need a great idea at a moment's notice from time to time. Follow the axe tree of wherever you listen to podcasts. You'll discover all the strategies. You need to be brilliant matters most. That's the accidental creative. Wherever you listen to podcasts curious about the nuts and bolts of the stock market. It's not just finance types anymore. Take it from a couple of regular guys. Dave and andrew who taught themselves about investing and teach it all on the investing for beginners. Podcast start with their back to basics series on episode forty three and use that knowledge to design your better financial future today. Nine hundred hours. Thursday july twenty fifth twenty nineteen president trump called ukraine presidents alinsky supposedly to congratulate him on his recent victory in the months that followed the american public would only learn what happened on that. Call because lieutenant colonel alexander vind men felt duty bound to report it up the chain of command that the president of the united states had extorted a foreign ally to damage a political challenger at home then men's actions and subsequent testimony before congress would lead to trump's impeachment and affirm vind belief that he had done the right thing in the face of intense pressure to stay silent but it would come at an enormous cost straining relationships with colleagues superiors and even his own father and eventually end his decorated career in the us army by a trump administration intent on retribution. Now for the first time then. Men offers a full account of his experience in a new book. Titled here right matters an american story and today lieutenant colonel veneman joins me on the podcast to talk about that. Fateful phone call. And why he got a sense that something was fishy. Even before the call was placed he reveals that he instantly knew he had to report trump's abuse of power even before the call ended how his army training came in handy when he testified in the congressional impeachment hearing and how a pressure campaign from the white house robbed him of his expected military promotion plus how he handles twitter trolls. And how he's showing his solidarity with other heroes who have run afoul of donald. Trump's angry mob. Coming up with lieutenant. Colonel alexander vind men in just a moment lieutenant. Colonel alexander. vin. Ben was most recently the director of eastern europe the caucus in russia on the white house's national security council. He served as a foreign area officer with assignments in moscow and for the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff as a political military affairs officer. He is currently a doctoral student at john hopkins school of advanced international studies. Senior fellow at the law fair institute and a visiting fellow at perry world house. He is however best known as the whistle blower who exposed president donald trump's infamous july twenty fifth twenty nineteen phone call with ukrainian president vladimir's alinsky which led to the second impeachment of donald trump. It culminated in lieutenant colonel. Men's dramatic testimony before the house impeachment committee in which he famously said here right matters indeed. That's the title of his new memoir. Here right matters an american story. Alexander van men. Welcome to the podcast. While thank you ben. I'm looking forward to being on kick ass news with you. It's a pleasure. We are now little more than two years since the infamous july twenty fifth phone call between donald trump and the ukrainian president and the impeachment proceedings. That of course followed has your life finally gotten back to some semblance of normality by now and not any semblance of normality. As i knew it my twenty year military career was Was guided by a laser focus on a public service and on keen focus on national security issues foreign policy by only real considerations were never had to consider like where my paycheck was. coming from. medical care I had to maybe think about like the next move in terms of Military that's all kind of gone by the wayside now and I'm involved in a bunch of really interesting things. Working on a doctorate s- A senior fellow at the law fair institute on the board of a non governmental organization. But it's kind of a brave new world trying to figure out what i wanna do and really kind of dealing with the after effects of Of doing my duty seeking to defend. Us national security interests in in my case really against the president of the united states is looking to undermine the very foundations of good governance and Free and fair election so not quite back to normal yet. I'm not sure what normal didn't look like from here on out But i'm working hard to kind of provide some security instability for for my family and figure out what i want to do the long run. You of course left the white house when trump was surrounded by scandal. And you came in when he was surrounded by a scandal. It's kind of interesting your first day at the. Nfc was the very same day in two thousand eighteen. When president trump with vladimir putin in helsinki. And he famously told a press conference that he trusted putin as much as his own intelligence community when it came to the two thousand sixteen election that was about a year before the ukraine. Call so i have to wonder. Wh- what was your overall impression of donald trump in the year or so prior to that infamous phone call. You know it's it's interesting. I think it's a feature of donald trump that he's as destructive to to himself in his own interest as he has to the country. Frankly oftentimes unfortunately he's terribly destructive on both accounts at the time before i had come to. Nfc i had done my diligence. I kind of understood that. I was coming into a perilous environment. That didn't white or operate the way previous administrations did but still saw an opportunity to do some good invents you. Us stirred interests. The reason i was offered the position is because i drafted the key documents for the for the department of defense on how face russia as an adversary and. I thought i could do the same thing kind of magnify nowadays. It's natural. I had reason to believe that it could be successful because hill was on the team And she was like minded in a in a student of russia in President putin and that first day. I learned that i was going to have some major major headwinds but i also recognize that donald trump had little to no interest in foreign policy. He was highly transactional he was or he would only kind of You know step into foreign policy. Where where he saw transactional benefit either with kind of rousing a constituency or for personal gain which which happened quite often unfortunately and he didn't really pay that close attention to russia or really the rest of my portfolio ukraine moldova belarus. To the caucuses. He didn't care he didn't you don't understand what why what what the value of those regions where to national security interest. So i thought i could still do a lot of good. Frankly i just knew the brakes on on being able to really implemented a russia strategy. That would help the us the way. I thought we we needed to do it. Well i wanna go ahead and just skip straight to that fateful day. July twenty fifth two thousand nineteen prior to the phone call. Did you have any sense that something was a little bit off about that situation between the white house in ukraine or the that this was not going to be a normal phone call between two world leaders of two minds. I was both very apprehensive and also may maybe naively optimistic. What i certainly had watched unfold of the preceding months were was a foreign policy being run outside of yours. Government channels a route rudy. Giuliani i kind of trashing ambassador. Ivanovich both directly or indirectly and don jr. who had zero clue about what was going on in the region or probably any at large rarely. Frankly it obey trashing career public servant and then those things unfolding of the preceding months. That were alarming. Need but i in a way this aggregated them from the from the president directly. Because i thought that these were people looking to curry favour. Ingratiate themselves with the president. It do the president's bidding and might maybe somewhat blocking my offer. The office of the president kind of didn't allow me to really even though i saw had seen really bad the double dealing for the president. I didn't really believe that the president was going to attack the very foundations of our democracy electoral process. So i thought that we put together a call on its merits. The president had already executed one phone call with of lenders alinsky the president of ukraine. I thought you know if it went anything like that. We could actually make some headway on normalizing the relationship providing ukraine the kind of support they needed to face russian aggression and In the days right before the call was initially on the schedule is pulled off. Because they're bachelor. Bolton the national security adviser at the time killed it thought there was too much danger and then it went back on is kind of perplexed as to wire. All this was going on just reschedule. Extent point Landed i just did what i thought was right. I provide the president kind of a script to follow much like he had done the first time around and You wrote the talking points for him. Correct yes yes. I like i had done previously. I'd written the president's talking points at written the brat background papers. I'd illuminated why. This is such a such an important relationship for the united states primarily because ukraine in the western orbit out of the russian camp which is where they wanna be. That's not where we're pushing him. That's where they want to be naturally is much more Enhancing of us national security. There's a famous line by signal. Brzezinski the national For jimmy. Carter which he states. It should not be under estimated that russia absent ukraine ceases to become an empire but ukraine. subordinating suborned by russia automatically becomes an empire and hire russia. That's already challenging. Us interests it would just be magnified right. It's an interesting situation. Because i mean it seems like the. The president at the time was already predisposed not to help ukraine just by virtue of his reverence for vladimir putin and his strange relationship with russia and then it seems like he had some kind of self interested motive to actually bolster that so In his mind. I guess there are plenty of reasons for him not to do anything for ukraine. And i'm curious. It's interesting that the national security adviser john bolton was conspicuously absent from that phone call. Was that a tip off to you. And i wonder if you think that he should have been if he knew that something was amiss here. You're you're the person that i asked that question in. Note that so i that he should been part of that phone call. He would have under under every single normal circumstance. He would be part of the Phone call he was conspicuously absent from the phone call because he didn't want to be party to what he had weeks before called a drug deal sensing that the president was going to demand investigation into a political opponent and he didn't wanna be there in a position to testify. I mean i don't throw you under the bus with bolton here. Do you feel that knowing what he knew that you know. Maybe if you had been in this position you would have wanted to have been in that meeting to cut the phone court if you had to do whatever you had to to stop if you own a hill in that helsinki press conference joked about like fainting to just kind of set the whole thing you know. Just kinda although book pull the plug on it and you would hope that Senior leaders in the in the pentagon to defend your national security are not in the pentagon in the white house. I would do the same thing. Jump on grenade took to defend you. That i think that bolton had a clear understanding based on his direct interactions with the president with mick mulvaney with with the senior most leadership that the president was potentially going to do this and didn't want to be in a position where he would put his kind of his own political life life on the line and have have to be in that type situation. The thing is that we don't bolton's never. He's given his account obviously in his book but he's never really given a full accounting of of the president in the presidential Misdeeds you know if if there's a like there was a effort to hold the trump administration accountable there'd be effort to kind of probably depose bolton on all the wrong He witnessed firsthand. Which is he. Well absolutely brought much broader in scope and in reading the book. You sensed i have some admiration. For john bolton maybe not from the policy standpoint which i'd necessarily agree with a lot of his policy but on his kind of cold Competence savvy kind of Political maneuvering same way. I in some ways. Briefly remarked on on radcliffe represented radcliffe questioning that. You know as a capable adversary manager now as you listened on that call. What were the the exact words out of trump's mouth that we're the big red flag for you or when did you get a sense okay. This is really something serious. And i i need to be listening very hard and take good notes here. I mean so. There's good thing. Is that like i done. These phone calls and i take a little government. Green notebook was taking copious notes throughout the whole time but I i knew immediately when the president got online. Just the tone suggested that this is going to be this. It started out with with clarity that the phone call was not going to deliver on You know improving their relationship with ukraine indicating that ukraine has got. Us support even though the secretary of state the national security advisor defense. Everybody who's on the same page in a kind of offering encouragement to ukraine as they're waging a war as russia's waging war against your the president was not on the same gauge. The president was the only one that was acting purely on self interest rather national strategist so the tone Alarmed me but as the Conversation proceeded in the president pennants braided dolinsky for ukraine. Not being grateful enough out for all the support that us gave Ukraine dolinsky saying you know basically being charismatic and engaging with With trump trying to win them over like you do like a comedian would do with like a unfriendly crowd and ultimately saying well we we do wanna we actually want to do business with you. Pandering to the president's interesting for transactional benefits will buy your javelin will give you. Money will buy gravelines antitank on missiles and the president immediately launching into i. I need you to do us a favor. Though that was that was the tipping point. And then you know the president of get his rant about joe biden's wrongdoing which is which is completely Meraj there is no. There's no credible evidence to suggest that and something i. I've done extensive due diligence on and the president basically directing both the attorney general and giuliani to engage his skin his administration to conduct under investigation into the violence so he could harm his his opponent. Principal opponent going into twenty. And this was the the beginning of a continuing enterprise to try to steal the election that we saw on a plow all the way through january. Six end the line that we we've now kind of heard him say to that department of justice just just launch an investigation. I'll take care of it from there. Now i should point out that you were not in the oval office with him during this call you were actually in one of the situation rooms with the nfc officials. A lot of people don't realize that there's kind of the famous situation room that we see in photos and then there's these other smaller conference rooms down there as you sat there with your colleagues. Did you see any of them. Flintshire winsor or exchange glances when trump blatantly solicited an investigation into biden. You're right it's this. Is there to conference rooms in the west wing. There's the candy situation room the big one. That's on tv sometimes. There's a small one that people actually have seen also when When the osama bin laden raid was occurring president obama and hillary clinton were sitting in that small room. And don't so it's it's a pretty intimate. Settlers are only handful of. it's there. Were only a handful of folks that were in. The room. And i saw people reacted to this. But i really didn't pay that close attention to what they did. I just kind of like took a quick look around surveyed what was going on and then really went back to the business of taking my notes and thinking through you know damage control. What does this mean for our bilateral relationship. What does this mean for. Us national security. in already. Knowing that i was going to report this because this was an attack on free and fair elections kind of the fundamental building block for our democracy. And i knew as my responsibility on my shoulders. Did to do something about it. I didn't really care carefully. Way with whether i was going to have support from other people because it was squarely my portfolio. Is that the director for eastern europe. The director for ukraine. And i was my responsibility to take action. So you knew then and there that you had to report this. This wasn't some you know painful process that you went through sleepless nights and all that immediately. I mean a lot of ways. It was a far easier decision because it was all in house all within classified channels all with the aim of leveraging the the the organizational structure of the national security council of the senior most attorney john eisenberg that had direct access to the president that could council the president on what he was doing being at minimum awful but likely unlawful also in an abuse of power and getting the president to reverse course and what what most people don't understand. Is that this president constantly. Reverse course audio considered tweets. You know he is kind of bravado. A public leagues but behind the scenes. You'd like flip back and forward on stuff. Be highly indecisive. have to backpedal on Considered ideas Fortunately you know he backpedaled on nuking hurricanes and stuff like that so They say that the president has checked already. Yes you're ready. You're the president. I guess is responsible for foreign policy but at the same time. It's good that there are people that check him on that because otherwise we'd be nuclear in new gingrich hurricanes left and right so now. The person that you reported to of all people was actually your own brother. That must have been a very awkward conversation. I mean how did he react. Not the least bit awkward. Actually i mean. My twin brother He's the closest person I have besides my wife and my daughter This is the first time we were stationed together but we. We are very very close. And i reported to him what i witnessed rather than made the official report as the reporting officer on wrongdoing. And the reason that's important class clarification is that i'm not trying to kind of a diminish his role but i had previously reported my concerns to john. Eisenberg that's where i was going back. The reason i wanted to talk to. My brother is both because he was the ethics official. But also because i wanted him as a witness to my official report to a chain of command so like this there were not be like a he said she said type of thing where i would have an uncorroborated report or something like that so You know he's my twin brother. So i could. I could take every bit of liberty you. You could see that in the book. You know where we're like. We're walking down. The hall is quickly bats around. I might punch him or something like that just for fun. But in this case. I walked in there Dead serious His office right across remind And i walked in closed-door in told him you know did get a bit of a dramatic positive matrices attention as eugene. If what i'm about to tell you ever becomes public. The president will be impeached and it was just a it was a cold assessment of the gravity of the Moment cold assessment of the assault on on our democracy of violation of the constitution without necessarily realizing all the repercussions. You know the fact that you know the president that this would become public the fact that this would play out through congressional action the fact that this would alternately. 'cause my career. I just knew exactly what i had to do. And i was going to be deterred from doing it. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be back with more when we return in just a minute. Welcome to the wild black podcast. A safe space designed by us. Ms especially for us while black is here for all the moments the times you wanna scream. We get it too. Will screen right along with you the times you just need someone to say it plain and make it make sense so we bring on expert guests who care enough to do just that the moment you need to laugh. Why does grandma have plastic on the couch. And who are these people that put sugar in their grits. Not me while black. Has you covered in the moments where you need inspiration or motivation. Our dope quote leans against words from our past to inform future. while blancas. Here to help you entertain you inform you inspire you and simply make you better while black freedom. Do yourself a favor and ride with us anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Nico- hit that play button. American history is full of infamous people places and events if you've ever wanted to know the true story of the salem witch trials or the nineteen nineteen world series baseball scandal known as the black sox scandal or hear about the masterful escape attempts from alcatraz prison or the mysteries of the bermuda triangle or hear the crazy details of gangsters. Assassins and thieves like db cooper bonnie. And clyde john. Dillinger john wilkes booth and lee harvey. Oswald join me on the infamous america. Podcast i'm your host chris. Wimmer on this podcast. You'll get the indepth true stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. The stories are all told with cinematic music. Sound design and there are already more than one hundred episodes waiting for you to binge subscribe or follow the infamous america. Podcast on apple podcasts. Spotify pandora avon music or wherever you're listening now and the pressure campaign ramped up almost immediately from what i it sounds like in your book What kind of pressure. Where you're getting from the president his allies all the people up the chain from you. Sure so i mean immediately. There was When when this became even before this became public frankly i was are already being kind of ostracized and the scope of my duties. Were being limited. There were a number of trips that i had taken with in a previous iteration with basketball team. That was in the national security adviser died in. Take this one on this other. Subsequently to this to my to my report you take three countries that were in my so. I knew i was on the outs a little bit. Above that was something. I could still live with because i could still be functional. There's a little bit of a counter like pride of going on these trips. Because it's it's it's your you get into represents a country by. I could still do all this things behind the scenes doing but when this became public. That's when i really became targeted in the president's the president's white house the president's press team set out a series of attack talking points ham handedly sending him not just fox news in laura ingram but to media that wasn't partisan wasn't friendly and remember an article in which the daily beast got a hold of this thing actually talking points with with letterhead and stuff like that inside. You know that laid out exactly attack of actors do alliances leaker by judgment stuff that would continue to reverberate through You know through the president's proxies from there on and then in the military was was weak-kneed in response to this assault on me. And i couldn't defend myself so you know i basically was taking incoming without having anybody to just support me from for my department and the military because they thought it was okay to kind of let me let me take it in. I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking. You were actually in line for promotions to colonel and other important military honors but that mysteriously stalled not just impacting you but many other officers who were up for promotion. I'm curious what was your understanding of the mecca nations at play behind the scenes. There and do you feel like the military failed you. I have a pretty. I mean i don't have full situational awareness by pretty darn good clarity. I know that there was a Besides the public campaign there was a campaign to block my promotion. There was a a memorandum that was circulated that was a Completely fraudulent about like wrongdoing. I had that instigate a an investigation into me which the army shortly wasn't gonna happen but actually ultimately did happen. The present chief of staff hauled in the secretary of defense the secretary of the army berated them for considering putting my name on a list. This promotion list was delayed for months in. You know this many folks who are affected. It wasn't just the people that were on the list that we're gonna that. Were trying to figure out what their next move was. It's also the hundreds more that weren't getting a promotion in wanted to know whether he still had a military career where they needed to start considering considering retirement so it was pretty clear to me in the conversation i had with seniors. That had told me that. I could no longer serve as a foreign area officer. That wouldn't be able to serve in any place that's really significantly more. I could collect a paycheck. Really kind of just have a cushy 'cause she and another or some other another senior general told me that i had to close to. The sun is certainly pissed off military officers. I knew i was. I was down in. The middle of a pandemic are basically submitted. My retirement with some confidence. In the fact. I'd land on my feet taking the example of my father starting over repeatedly but be well positioned because of education and so forth. I stepped out into the brave unknown brave new world. And since you mentioned your father Toward the end of your opening statements in your impeachment testimony. You shared that. Your father was actually a trump supporter and he tried to dissuade you from testifying. I'm curious. What exactly did your dad say to try to convince you. What was his argument. Well i think it's it's yes. He was a trump supporter but the basis of his council which has always been really quite good in astute and under Rich life lots of experience and a keen understanding power execture. His counsel was not based on the fact that he was a trump supporter. At least not. Mainly i mean there was probably a small component Where he just you know initially didn't believe that the president had done something wrong but he also didn't have the full situation awareness. I did so that was easily set aside. Because i knew more about what was going on than he did and he just he would have to live with when i when i took my actions but his council was more on the risks that he perceived to me based on the the understanding of power. He grew up in world war two. He grew up under stalin. You know in his early years and he understood what happens when you go up against power and he rightly assessed that Who's gonna cost me. My career and i think at the time was probably a little bit idealistic thinking that by doing the right thing. I wasn't going to be penalized by the by the military. But that's that's okay. It doesn't it doesn't change my perspective. On whether i did the right thing or whether doing the right thing is You're doing the right thing in these types of challenges Situations does not come with some sort of inherent benefits rewards. It comes with great cost. And the fact is i could live with the consequences of my actions. I will move on out. I'm going to have a second chapter. Another career i. I'll i could live with that so i think that's really the most important one of the most important takeaways. I have to wonder for the average american. We've seen movies and tv version of what it's like to testify before congress in a high-stakes proceeding like this. Knowing that many on the day us will act entirely out of partisan motivations and tried to impugn your credibility but it has to be impossible for most of us to imagine. That kind of pressure gives us a sense of what. It's like to actually be in the hot seat. Well certainly it was a it was a weighty responsibility with the eyes of america may in way the is a world of the world on me watching a lieutenant colonel in a in the in in the subordinate of the president of the united states. The commander-in-chief cast buying in marveling at the fact that something like this could actually unfold which is a testament to this country. Frankly in the way our processes work that the president was being held accountable held accountable for wrongdoing with that was immediately then an impeachment and removal or subsquently the president being revealed as corrupt and the electorate in twenty twenty So it's it's a pretty phenomenal process. That played out that very few places in the world could Would could have a witness something similar. This nature For me though. I also had the perspective of serving in under great pressure in russia where the security services the tired of the security apparatus kind of arrayed against defense attaches. They thought were don't in their in their thinking. We're spies in things that nature and i'd served in combat and i talked about the experiencing loss in the book and within the context. The things actually it was it was a little bit. There was some some anxiety. But i was is very very focused on my job at that point and put everything else out to the side and a lot of ways the public testimony even though is other. The bright lights of tamarack was probably less stressful than the closed door testimony. Because i've never experienced anything like that before. So i had one kind of iteration under my belt when i did the the public testimony in and that's why probably i came across his as unflappable. You say in the book that your military training came in pretty handy testimony Tell us about that. While i mean you know i i. There's probably a bit of lightheartedness tour i. I've taken a in preparation for going to moscow to get advanced training individual protective measures of end. You get some sere training like Resisting interrogation techniques and stuff like that and in a lot of ways. I think the those congressmen were prepared to attack me but couldn't really do that. Effectively on the merits because armagh subject matter expert on his part of the world i could expound ad nauseam about why this region's important what it means for national security and they could try to do like process complaints about whether i follow chain of command which i did or braise all sorts of other things. You try to attack my character but they couldn't really touch me on the on the So i think in that regard. I was about as well positioned as anyone could possibly be for this kind of situation. I had the the deep training in the military are able to respond to cooling under pressure. I had the deep knowledge of my region. I understood the facts in kind of the most detailed methodical way possible so there was nothing that those you know. Those guys can do really from a marriage standpoint to me. Because all i had to do is tell truth. It was really quite easy for me. I have to keep his story straight. I didn't have to kind of contorted myself to defend the president. It was easy in in certain regards. You wonder In putting myself in the shoes of the senators and prior to that the congressmen. Who were deliberating about this. I wonder if we got too hung up on proving quid-pro-quo. You know at a certain point. It almost became trump's defense. He kept saying there's no quid-pro-quo and the standard suddenly became whether or not there was a quid-pro-quo instead of hey a us president blatantly asked to foreign power to interfere in the us election and do something purely for his own personal political benefit. I mean to me. it seems. Wasn't that enough. Why were we. So why did we have to focus so much on the quid-pro-quo i think that's right. I think You know we intellectualized the The proceedings in Maybe one of the reasons. I guess my testimony was so effective is that i really kept it simple. I didn't talk about ukrainian national security ordeal politics. Which has really while within my comfort zone like. I said i could talk about this for days. I'm writing a book on it for my dissertation. So i mean i just kept it really quite simple in explained charge exchange the american people that this this president was attacking the constitution. The president was attacking free and fair elections. And i think that's a couch also within the personal Own personal story about my the arc of my family. Come to the united states. Zimmer brinson believing this country is different and that nobody's above the law and i think i would have a guests that that's probably the reason that might testimony counter landed the way it did not having been through the ringer and been on the receiving end of all his vitriol from the far ride and trump supporters and his allies. It's interesting. I heard that you actually reached out to capitol police officer harry done. Since he testified about the racial slurs that were hurled him. During the january sixth capital insurrection. What kind of advice did you give him. I gave them the same advice that i've tried to follow myself my own experience. Which is don't listen to the vitriol. I mean those are folks that you have. I'm sure very little regard for attacking you. These are kind of mouthpieces immoral individuals. You the stuff. That's coming across on on. Twitter is really cowardly. I could i could imagine like you know some little man Squirrel away in the corner of the basement in mid forties living in in In still in his mother's base benders like that. You know typing something away making cell feel good about it. These are not people in any way for Would warrant respect this. I did this thing. With arnold schwarzenegger aware. I went over to his house. Act after this talk. And he brought the conan's order. Because i called my wife patrol slayer and she got a chance to pose with the coenen barbarian sort and i did the same thing and stuff like that in wonder that tax against me with some guy bring out orders saying i'll go up against you with the sword. Look at me. i'm like what kind of person has a conan the barbarian shortage that is not coded. I mean owning is entitled to schwarzenegger's entitled doing it but what other than grown man has a sword in his house from conan's like come on come on right and i'm sure he doesn't have combat training. Do i'm sure if he a dozen or if he It was probably a soft skill. But you know. I i made it a point to to make myself available to him in counseling To just think about his inner circle the support that he's getting from those folks in disregard you know the folks that are like With attack him on social media. But i did the same thing with mike fannin who. I had a chance to briefly meet out Will which are situation room. Offer the same thing Pretty good heroic individuals. It was a seal. That testified against. Eddie gallagher that i've connected with and i've had the fortunate to to interact with in kind of offer some support for And i just think there's a kind of kinship with of folks that should have been Revered i guess for holding the line protecting the country living up to their oldest but our demonized by the very folks that claim to support the military support law enforcement and kind of now have the blinders removed about who these people really are. Well before we go. I want to touch on that a little bit. You famously said in your testimony and actually it's the title of your book here. Here right matters. We all want to believe so. But do you still believe that. Right matters for many people after the capital insurrection. After the president's supporters in his political allies tried to undermine an election you know when millions of americans refused to get a covert vaccine or even where mass to protect themselves and their fellow man just because they don't feel like it. I mean to me. It looks like a lot of people not a few but a lot put their own self interests or their political expediency far above. What's right if it doesn't matter if it doesn't even enter into the picture for some people. Where's the hope for this nation. What they're that's very very true. I think for too many people you know. Their own interests acceded the interest of the community. The community including the country itself and I've i've thought about this in some significant detail as you could imagine and i don't waiver believing that this country is unique different from any other country in the world where you don't have the same opportunities at anywhere that you do hear that you could come with nothing and end up in the white house. I also recognize that. This country is a working product. Progress has flaws and that if we want right to matter here we need to make it matter in part that means shaking off. Complacency that you know that that that's the complacency of we don't need to be involved now because biden's empower and things are going to turn back to normal. That's the complacency around using your voice. When i a small but extremely vocal minority attacks this country now tucker carlson Demonize the united states and our turn ism and so do a large number of The president's circus are in the gop a glorious party. The party of lincoln that. That's what it's become so. I think it's it. We do have some challenges to overcome. But i still have great faith in this country where to get through this We're gonna come out stronger like we did after two world wars after a massive domestic unrest in the civil rights movement another catastrophic pandemic in nineteen seventeen civil war. I mean all these things we've overcome and right now we're in the fog of war so we can't really see past our own Difficulties but i do believe We could get past them part of the formulas accountability. Arnold schwarzenegger talked about unity. And we need folks like arnold schwarzenegger and talk about unity. And the fact that were unstoppable. When we're united but my my My drumbeat is on accountability. Well again the book is called here right matters. An american story alexander. Ben thank you for your service. Thank you for your patriotism and for coming on the show. I wish you the very best of luck sir and you if you enjoyed today's episode subscribe. I've been give us a five star rating on apple podcasts. Detailed reviews are the best way for new listeners. To discover the show follow us on facebook at at kick ass news pod and email me with your comments questions and suggestions at comments at kick ass news dot com kick ass news as part of the airwaves media podcast network visit airwave media dot com and check out some of our other shows like food with mark pitman movie therapy investing for beginners. My history can beat up your politics and many others for now though. I'm ben mathis and thanks for listening to kick ass news. An airwave media podcast.

ukraine russia donald trump united states trump white house dolinsky bolton alinsky todd henry lieutenant colonel alexander v colonel veneman Colonel alexander vind Colonel alexander john hopkins school of advance law fair institute perry world house house impeachment committee Alexander van law fair institute on the boar
Special Report: Clark Collis on You've Got Red on You

The Projection Booth Podcast

58:33 min | 2 months ago

Special Report: Clark Collis on You've Got Red on You

"An airwave media podcast. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history all told with cinematic music and sound design subscribed for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast to hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws laws. Like jesse james and butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache. We use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Show people pay money to see this movie. When they go to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. dr do you ever think. Modern life is not for you. You do the same dead end job every day. There's no i in tain there is an i in in. There's an i in meat pints una going to me team on israel's life on its feet so one. Oh ever felt that. You're turning into zombies david today time now wants to comment cooling in judgment cold that you stay in your home. Khuhro must ri- all contact with the assailants sofa compete stopped by removing the. Hey destroying the brain for the has purple rain. Sort of the the batman soundtrack zombie comedy in british history is invading america. I can't if you're looking for a man taking a shortcut before moves nice vocal work at. We'll try to gather. Shall we one to thing that will redeem. My time is cooperation and the right partner. Don't call sean. Soon as my husband. And i i still love him. I still ring on my finger. You go to bed with it. Hey folks welcomed a special edition of the projection booths. I m your host. Mike white on the road. I'm talking with clark collis. He is an editor at entertainment weekly. And he's the author of you've got red on you. How shaun of the dead was brought to life. It is a terrific making a book when it comes to shaun of the dead. There's some stuff out spaced in there. Even get some hot fuzz. And they're talk about some of the other films that edgar rice has done. I'm a huge fan of those first two films from the so-called coronado trilogy and especially on the dead so sit back. Relax enjoy this interview. Tell me more about clark. Collison how you became a writer colors grew up in somerset's in the west of the uk. And we're gonna probably circle back to this later. But if you've seen hot fuzz the small town where fezzes filmed is the time where i grew up and it's actually not quite as small as film exit. Look it's gonna an enormous wealth century cathedral in the middle of it which edgar wright had. I believe at the cg when they sort of the opening shot coming into the time. But it's pretty. It's pretty small but ten thousand people in i grew up there and that's the tan where the direction of the hawk on unbathed driver garoppolo. He's a few years younger than me. But we had a very similar experience kind of growing up but in On the one hand it's a lovely part of the world really quite beautiful but on the other hand. You feel very distant from everything really. I mean the nearest city is bristol. Which when you're a kid you know design impossible like twenty miles away in london. Seems very far in hollywood. Seems much much farther than that. But i was always interested in films i remember when i was about twelve. My parents took me on the west coast of american remember landik and they had a billboard escape from new york of big an in britain. The e already have sunny. Then you'd have this of billboards movies. Anyone remember it was like a where you had rustler's they of cut out of the bill billboard so it wasn't like a normal shape was magic because it was a movie that itself would come out of the uk for quite some time because release dates. Were we. It took a while in those days for films. Wander around the world. This is the movie from the future by the future. It seemed incredibly agile to me. Those kind of experiences just really fueled an interest in film. And then i went to university in the united kingdom and for some reason just thought i was going to become like a famous rock drum. I played the drums. I was in a band. You know. i had the privilege of a middle class upbringing. So you kind of you just think. Oh well magical. Things are going to happen to be not gonna become a rock drummer. Which sends proposed us except for the fact that played in the band at college with this. Very nice guy will call in brother. Johnny day were in a different banned from that hometown of oaks. And that band went on to be radiohead. So it didn't seem that preposterous. For a few years that i could be in a different by became enormously successful cutting edge multi-platinum selling artists but develops waiting for that to happen. Essentially i'm an idol is written on. I wrote for the university in newspaper reviewing horror films and stuff that sort of the the classic journalists than wanna covenant surly and then a friend of mine who is also a writer was like you should start reviewing he had. He had started reviewing albums music magazines and he was like. You'll never guess. What not only were they pay you. Twenty five packs which is like forty dollars but you get to keep the records and to me. This was you know it was the university and so they have this thing. The milk grand where people from financial institutions come round and off. You know and you can interview with them. And maybe you got a job at will get stanley. Whatever had i done that then i would have had all the money to buy the records in the world. But instead i while i was waiting to be a rock drummer it just it just seemed like a it just seemed magical but only when somebody paying me to write about music but they would let me the. Let me keep the vinyl album as well and so started doing that. And i wrote for lender magazine in the uk. And then i started wh which was a Sorry select magazine in the uk which is a music magazine. And then i started working full implant magazine. I'm sure loyalist The great british film magazine. I i my first. Real sort of each was into this really dates. Beginning to molten on the set of cutthroat island gena davis ac- modine pirates film than a friend of mine became editor of music magazine new york called blender and he got me over to new york and i started working that and then at fifteen years ago i started working at entertainment weekly magazine where i'm still apple installments. That's fantastic. it's amazing that you were able to manage to live through the magazine. Wars and the death of fell out of print magazines. Let say there at the time of recording. I mean i mean. I mean putting. Hopefully we'll still be there by the time comes out but i love every weekend. I think people do love. Entertainment weekly stole a hugely part of the culture. And it's the way a lot of people get their information about all coaches still you know. And it's a magazine it's websites we have podcasts cetera etc. But yes every day. I'm like i could dream of being a drummer. I i feel that accidentally. I have got my dream job which is writing about pop culture. I enjoy but every day. I touched would that the job is still there. You've got news at your first book. It is my first book. Yes and this. Is you read a new show. One of the dead is brought to life preordained. Amazon.com sort of the egregious plug. When i was working for a magazine neon actually in the mid nineties. I guess i would have quite possibly being faxed a press released kid from wells. Roy grow up. Who had made a comedy western in wells cold fistful fistful of fingers. And i was tickled by this and sent one of our write off to interview him and sorrows away from is and then edgar wright may directed space which i loved that he made sure the dad which was terrific and so on and so forth and about three years ago. I suggested that we do entertainment time. Weekly did a oral history of of the debt. I interviewed garage and simon pank. Nick frost kate ashfield. Who plays liz. I spent with bill nine. I spoke with narrow palk. Who is sort of the i. Guess almost in some way. George martin was like the fifth. Fatal europol is who's the producer of edgar reitz films is sort of Both member of that gap and very well and then about two years ago. I wanted to write a book. And i thought what on down half the work here having spoken to these good folks so i saw signed a deal with nine hundred eighty four publishing share and i thought well. I'll write the book as it turned out. I've done about one percent of the because then major encouraging the project but edgar's somebody who wants to. I mean it's interesting because he is such a talented individual and in many ways he's so in control of his films but he also wants to credit all of his collaborators and so he would say well you know you need to speak to my other oscar. Who did a lot of the storyboards show the dead with edgar and obviously grew up without gun and he's also has always been sort of almost like a almost like a free lie. Freelance design consultant on his films. Worked on on. Scott pilgrim a lot of other actor's films but now this producer needed to this person and so on and so on so on i'm sure you find this projection. Sometimes somebody regardless of the person's title like everybody has a good story to tell and so almost accidentally i've been i like to think it's a pretty entertaining book about how you make showing the dad was made and the history of the the people involved but on i. He became like how to make a film. They're all these on so i've got. I had the great pleasure of speaking with jane walker. Who was the loser makeup office. And basically all of game of thrones before then. Don't show the dad. And she was just very great about how there was no money but you you may do and this and that and you know at one point. She said that i'd could confirm this. The zombies in shaun of the dead have these contact lenses in real life that wearing contact lenses an unedu- wanted to contact lenses that were totally paik and jay walker was like well. That's not a good idea. Because like why. And she's like go like everybody will be blind. The lenses are paint and everybody will be blind. And i'm i'm sure jane is somewhat ultra story middle of a comedic effect. Maybe not much but just like well. Imagine fifty people running around up pob on fire blind and i'd get your yuri wanna do that but it's interesting because it is it sort of became all the book is almost like a guide to you know how to make the most of not a lot of money and how much work goes into making pill parental. Yeah it is very much. The making of the impact of it was so well put together and so research. I mean at the end of the day. How many people did you end up talking with about forty people involved with making the film and releasing the film. Because i have. I have a chapter. Were talking by being released in britain. It was always planned as a theatrical film in britain but it was never. It was never show thing big released in the states. And so there's a whole chapter about how focused features in the states kinda earth. Within a very short parrot tried to put an end succeeded in putting show another data on the map before it's released in two thousand four. But i mean yeah. I smoked about sixty people but sometimes it would be. I mean i think my loss oddly was with was with zack. Snyder zack snyder. By army of the dads are recent. It was and one of the odd strands in the story is universal. Sure that is working title. Movie title essentially was owned by universal and universal. Exactly the same time the country was making shaun of the dead was also making donor of the debt. Zack snyder in toronto and according to edgar they would have meetings at universal in la every week whether it would go in alphabetical order through all the films and how is the film that were in production and how they were going and so would be missile. This film dawn of the data was spent snyder the other day in toronto and then they go through all the other movies and towards the bottom they showed the data. Somebody will be like the one of the executives will be like. I'm sorry we're make film. We'd make uncle dawn of the data. Also becky tumbles shown of what the hell is going up and alan jones. Who's the very well lone. British entertainment journalist specializes in horror. Visited the set of show of the data and then and then was telling me. The two weeks visited the set of dawn of the data in toronto and no one on the set of doing that believed that short of the debt existed and they used to see him. That was his droll british. You much but so yes. Zach started right at the end. I just sort of what he's shoulder. The debt. the funny thing is that he said it was zombie. Movie for even people who love fulfil nuts trying to use the phrase nuts if people really like our movies and then he said you know you can just tell. They had an absolute blast making. It didn't correct them. But having just read a book which i mean i mean lots of people have a lot of fun mickey the debt but i think one of the reasons edgar go wanted to cooperate with the book was point out. This was tremendously and it was incredibly difficult to get that financed and it was incredibly difficult to get made and then it was actually with to get a released in america. I don't think it would recognize that description of clearly. Everybody had a laugh making it. You know it can give me a lot on work. Making something looks like it was left to make is one of the morals of the book. I think i was really glad how you put a shaun of the dead in context as far as where we were with the state of zombie films and even talking about things like twenty eight weeks later where it was just like okay. When was that versus this. Because i remember you know that incredible. Montage scene in sean where they're going through the tv channels and they're talking about things that sound like it's right out of twenty eight weeks later. One official is prepared to comment. Religious groups are calling at judgment day as an increasing number of reports of attacks on people. Were literally being eaten alive. A witness reports sketchy one. Unifying details seems to be that. The attackers in many instances appear to be dead excited a sensational job. Cool ideological connection between those committing. The atrocities perhaps more garden along with cool girl will be called in to provide assistance. I'd always been interested in zombie films. And maybe quite late. But i was. I'm guessing what about eighteen when the dead came out. I remember watching that on video. The heldman nightmares better days. Even though i was quite an you know an adult person birdie that point. I think that's still kind of my favorite. It's because it's supposed to what i sold but then you know obviously you know i. I watched all the ramirez stuff. I watched the return of the living dead movies. And yeah just just in time to be america. When a few times. I remember interviewing him about did a thing where he was good enough to talk about ten terrible films. He loved which were all sort of like. I'd have to look up but was sort of like fifties and sixties swashbuckling. Movies or override. Melodramas no it wasn't like me nowadays. What did that. I guess it would be the room troll to and stuff. I doubt obviously or american from an older generation. And you know was you know someone who was the forties fifties films that he loved but yeah i'd always been interested in zone moves and it is. It is interesting because by the time they started to run on the dad which was summer of two thousand and one was dead. It was dead as the as good points in the book. In return of the living dead to. There's like a michael. Jackson jokes like a zombie. Michael jackson i guess riffing on the thriller video at point. Like that's the end of it really. You know that's people backing michael jackson jokes and it's only movies you pretty much done. And so ah. Govern film was written by people that is written by gavourites and simon pegg plays children in the film. They had done episode of space sort of rift on the only movie that was on a national network and britain but point was the simon and taken so much speed amphetamine that he stayed up all night playing video games and then find it difficult to tell you know what was really going on. So there's this opening sequence the episode siliconware zombies left right and center. And that's such a good time doing that. They thought hey wrote a comedy -bility. They thought that ace card was the people hadn't made zombie movies and years. And this would be something you know. They're gonna idea to the zombie roles essentially but this was something in a way wasn't that it was out of fashion but it was outside fashion. No one was thinking about zombie movies and so it would be fresh. I guess in the same way the american werewolf in london it which about your rights favorite movies was with acid and the howling were like seemed fresh when they came out at the end of the seventy s or get started agent. There's no one had really made a wealth mood so they're writing it short of the dead and they're pretty deep into it. One day signed them. It was like if you had of a movie called twenty eight days later and the title. danny boyle's making. I don't know what is unpaid guests who it's zombie movie. I think had said that he just smashed is add against the table for like ten minutes going. You know f i f. Yeah so that was the low point for the but in the end. I think that came out in two thousand. Two guests said that in the end he was quite happy because the very very different movement shoulder the data and it's a very bleak movie been silent would argue. It's not as movie at all. But that's a a lengthy discussion. i mean. i think he's right. But that's that's like a whole cul de sac. I don't think we need to get tired at this point. But i guess felt that it sort of set of the data in a way didn't really step on shore the dads territory but sort of reminded people that the of zombie movie genre and in britain actually shown that came out two weeks off to one of the debt. Zack snyder remake. And you know as i guess as it's quite likely went to show the dead thinking they were going to see during the dadan vice versa Edgar would would point at the chosen ultimately gross morton britain the twenty eight days later anyway. So it's a happy ending. I very much like that. You bring up some of the predecessors to mr right Such as sam. Ramey and peter jackson shaun of the dead feels like such a different film than something like the evil dead and it had a such a different making of but the both seemed like they're very very scrappy films to your point from earlier. Edgar always being interested in films in a way of say. I don't want to sound like grandma. Get off my lawn but nowadays if kids wanna find out a film nowadays they can just get on the computer. Edqa tell stories. I remember doing this myself. Staying up parana. Perron was showing at two o'clock in the morning. Then you stabbed two o'clock in the morning. I didn't have a video record and his parents would teaches. They couldn't really afford a better time. But i'd get managed to amass himself in this world anyway buying and gory or another kazini but then he saw there was a tv. Show the uk hosted by jonathan ross. Who is very well known tv presenter and is called the incredibly strange films show and every week there will concentrate on a different filmmaker and one week. It was. john waters won't make it was russ meyer. They did an episode on jackie chan. Who of course does qualify a filmmaker. What it has many remarkable talents. What really turned the kief edgar was they did an episode on sam ramey who was an production all evil dead two. I think the. I think the with sam takes place in the editing room. We'll be able to but it was in large part about evil dead. And how your famous story. About how. He and bruce campbell and smother friends you know got money off. Dentist the fund this this crazy production and talks about how he says. He just thought that before saying that he just thought. The film directors dropped off at universal studios by stokes. Basically bundle as as stephen spill the stalkers delivered steven spielberg but that is episodes incredibly strange films show towards him the to agree to a degree that anybody bifida metro suddenly put him on a road to being a filmmaker and then he and his brother go to like a super eight camera and started making films and then they wanna video cameras. So i'm making films with that but a nice sort of what's nice. Take what you've read a book. Sometimes i'm saying it's like a hundred. This is my first. There were definitely times. When i felt that my book was being do i was writing. The book was big. Inspired by ed gasfields and i am not putting myself on on the kind of level of artistry. He's operatic. But i did have this thing that if you mentioned somebody it's good like you. You don't wanna mention somebody only wants like if you look you look at it You know something pops up it pops up again and maybe again began the guy you know just you know i mean these things. I mean. it's a cliche but they're really Swiss watches one of the nice recurring characters. If you will in the book is current holiday who people now know as the direct of the non that wildly successful pondering film and he also was one of the people responsible for ends of london on. Mci sexy pretty terrific one. Some back december ivy but and go and know the same age and they both had short films at a children's or young film festival. An i ended car and then he just told the by saying edges film and ding. Like that's the competition like. This is the this is the film the the date my fell and then finding him and they would have both be fifteen and current was talking about stealing up. You know a drink from the bar of sneaking out with hoffa pint of bear and finding edgar and starting to talk and car and saying. What's your favorite movie and get saying evil that too and cards yanked me too and then current was like it all comes back. We will that too and then. Interestingly current helped the costumes for fistful of fingers gabe plays of zombies. In shaun of the dead there's like there are a lotta quite wealthy people. People that would become quite well. Our business sean of the dad. I think there's a one shot maybe web us current hearty joke Lady who is another good. Who would go on to attack. The block was playing zombies. Get killed at the same time and then finally you know carin makes he makes the none but then makes gangs of london and there's a scene in gangs of london someone watching show another data and he said it was. He said it was both a homage to show the dead. But also hamas to craven sam raimi's habit of reference in their references to the dead in one of the the diner. Dome street films unbiased service. Or i think pretty slow as in the basement of one of the films so he had. It was very important to me to talk about the film's on before there was a lot more of that originally in the original draft. But it's just it's it's you know. How do you find this as well. You just kind of want to include everything then you sing ono house. Sort of people have paid to read a book about short of the dad. We haven't mentioned the feldman like fifty pages. Because i'm doing the history of hammer horror than maybe. I should cut some of that. You know it's tough once you get the interviews. It's tough to like give up. I think i've quoted everybody else i know. I've never been asked to the book but books easier. Let you just got more acreage than than in a magazine. Laura or nepad cost appreciated that. And you talked about that. It wasn't an easy experience. And young filmmaking never is but especially when edgar is having so many difficulties with david dunlap cinematographer. Right right yes. There's a lot of difficulties between the thing is. I think it's a culture clash. Really that david loved done like was his furry experience. We've very experienced cameraman and he'd worked on raising arizona goodfellas he had been second unit cinematographer on a lot of big movies and i just moved into being dp himself and was an you know. He was twenty years older than edgar and had this incredible resume of work. Niger essentially this was his first film. Soy sauce with any kind of budget but it was like a low budget horror movie and felt that the david and his team. Let's say it was a culture clash between edgar who will do anything to make this movie and perhaps some members of the crew who would like. Hey we're paid to be ten hours and maybe we'll do eleven over time but you know we got wires and families and we'll get to go home at the end of that and i think there's inevitably going to be you know a clash staff and i think mean many many people who worked on shown of the dad worked with i guess subsequently marcus rowland the production design. I mean naira the producer lots and lots of obviously simon pegg. Nick frost you know. Make two more films. That david was not as aspect of puzzle or any of the movies. But i do think you have this. I mean it's funny because when edgar. I don't know somebody says he's not a shy answer. He's onset is not he he says himself is not a show that but he can sulk for england and he said he spent most of the shootings in a foul mood largely because of the difficulty what he perceived to be having the camera crew. But he's not someone that's going to and we can think of directors we've heard about who do screaming shy an on set up and he's not that but there was one incident where he claims i mean people read the book and so could believe who they want but numerous people have backed that up on. This was one point way. He needed to get shaw shot. He founded which back arafat of issues had exploding basically is his character in. The film becomes a bay. They needed they hadn't gonna show of his unexploded they needed it because it needs to be on the set of the wind. Just which is the public movie on. The sat was being torn down the next day and edgar asked the camera. Crew sexual crude. Why stay behind but the camera crew. So they wouldn't do it and just left. The sach office adjust toys his office about. I mean there's some debate. I mean i guess as he basically knocked over bookshelf and then maybe there's a little bit more damage than that. But i think in a strange way. That's quite worried about. Not this for the book and i had to say look given to make light or anything else than you ever do as the director is smash up your own office in a in a in a somewhat restrained fashion than you. You know you're doing fine. Produces and jimmy naira who produces someone must have said look edgar's like smashed up his office and reducing. Who was working with narrow. It was it was a best friend she said does nara clean up his office. He's gotta go. Is that a tidy up his own office. You dad tied it up for him and then actually two days later at amazing with david dunlap in his ruined office. This was like the one of the delay both agreed on allegedly that after a while edgar a david done got up and he said i can't. I can't huts made it suitable dies. I'm sure people read this will side with at guy. I think there is an element of culture clash between like someone who is very very young. As i said would do anything to get a film made and you know someone who was a couple of decades old that he was not prepared to do everything to make a move and regarded it sending regarded. This is more like a nine to five job now and you can get what admit i think some of the conflict did result in maybe detentions and stresses did help the movie and somewhat there is something of a happy ending. Actually i guess well over a decade or decade late at goes making baby driver and had to do a pickup. Shot kevin spacey. Who was working on the netflix shirt and david dunlap would become the dp of cards and so and visited the set of house of cards. Took the necessary material. Kevin spacey and he said he you know he was. He and david had a fleet amiable. It's not like really. I think it gives more sort of open ever again to me. He was like. I wish i just wish i wish i could have got them on board. They felt in a sense that he had it ultimately the was his because he said it's up to a direct to sell the movie to a his cost occur having said we. I mean there's lots of. I mean get didn't necessarily have a good time making movie. I think i'm not sure that has a good time with shooting movies. Don't wanna speak to you about that. But he does regard as quite stressful and because is the only because he's is someone that makes these movies in his head before he he's he's he goes on saturday. Obviously he would would credit. You know his his crew with with making additions and changes. I'm sure but essentially they shoot. What's his hat. And so you know it's his responsibility to you. Know every minute of every day on shoes to make sure the what's in his head. Winds up on the screen did have a good time on showing him that and one of the thrills already was talking to a lot of the people who played zombies in the film who get was not something that i would didn't expect to be interviewing too many on these ended up in talking to a lot of the because once again i would talk to one. They would say oh she talked to you. Know i'm still in contact with Talk to them and they want. I mean they really say they saved the show because this you know compared to be budget film that was made for four million pounds so brand six million dollars. I guess and the good thing is on basically. Don't need somebody famous to play the but you need a lot of and this was not a high production that could afford. It was a production of the needle on his couldn't afford them. And so they just sort of put out on websites and through the space fan club anybody interested in being as only will pay pound a database which even back in two thousand and three was you know betty by a bag of chips guessing but no these people came and stuck around was stories that towards they shot in the winchesters sat for several weeks at ealing studios and there was some. There was some mention that towards the end zone. Were getting off with each other quite a lot. I think who it was. But somebody said that you would go into a room ailing studios and find zombies like each other's fake scabs and it seemed quite possible that the at least one occasion twos on that sex on the pool table of the winchester who they might have been. It may have had more than what's i don't know but but it's it's remember next time he's watched the movie. Don't be had sex in my folder. What was your own experience with the film. When did you see them. What did you think. I saw it at union square cinema regal union swiss them like in new york city and loved it. I thought it was great. It was interesting. There is a whole one of the sort of running. Themes of the book is the name of the film. And how maybe maybe it's was not the best title. It's it's like old pun. Titles when you first hear it it's not good then if if the product is good that everytime you sort of forget. The hunt really liked the beatles when the beatles is a terrible pop the ats but no one even thinks about that. It's the beatles. Think the same thing happens with showing the data various people trying to get money off. He can tell the story about the office. Came at roughly as they. The dead the british version of the office. And i'd get talks about bumping into ricky jehovah's who had worked with in soho london wreckage of as saying. Well what are you doing now. And i guess that running zombie comedy and said what's a cool and he said shoulder dad device said oh seriously what's it called i i i remember thinking with that. Had good cannot exit signs like goofy combat a zombie and as is repeatedly. The boys really major at the book. It's not gonna become it's actually a zone become a day. But it's a zombie. Sanford as they satire of romantic comedies. It is actually a pretty straight horrified. Penelope will be woods. The end of and there is an amazing shop. I think shaun. And liz the full grand. I let me see bonelli builds on permits the last time you resolve. He rises up. Like bela lugosi. Basically and it's absolutely chilling. But no so so. I saw it union square. Am i your liked it a lot. I like to law. And then i saw the couple of years later. Which is a win win for me. Because i grew up in wells. And it's shot in wells and so it's almost like a psychotropic experience watching that an icon is really. It's really great. Great movies refunding. It is so big and britain's was a huge huge shit for But i just can't get boot quite beyond the fact that it's shot in my hometown and then pilgrimage sort of its own story. And i think i liked all of these. Storms straightening was what. I saw the world's end which i suspect is. It's like the least acclaimed. What's as the connecticut trilogy. But i wound. They've made this trilogy and it's great you know and you know in some ways. Obviously not a trilogy. It's all at some ways. None of the characters really differ joel morris to a degree but you know they have these in jokes and and just wanted achievement to make those three films and i'd i'd very much loved the end of the world's edwin plumbing begs kirk to tell Results in the coal is the end of civilization. That always gives me a chuckle. And that was the moment i saw on by. Jesus christ amazes. And i think you know it's sort of the opposite of a bit of a reaches a comparison but when you think of what they tried to do with the doc universe where it was like okay. We're gonna make twelve of these moods and here are the people that are going to be in them baba blah and of course they have made a moment or as i mean planning to make the kona trilogy at all. I mean here. Is there any reason. The coronado is bench which is for those brand of ice cream in the uk coronado in the first movies because it was a hangover. Nick frost characters hano run the movie and simon pegg to get him continente and the only reason it's in the second movie is because for the premiere. Positive short of the dads. Someone arrange to have like free coincidence and they were like. Wow if we could go in the second movie then maybe we will get more frequent letters and any reason in the third fell is the one of the journalists. Et goes talking to journalist doing publicity for hot fuzz. And the journalist said so. You're gonna make it go nazo trilogy like kristof Three colors and goes like it's going to be you know the st helens ice cream trilogy. Minova that they wouldn't have made three films. It just like the fact that just totally accidental shambolic anyth- shambolic but is totally accidental. They could have just. They just made one film. I mean if if that hadn't been released in america or gum to straight video. I'm guessing charisma. We'll take a very different very different positive. Wouldn't have been able babies together. Maybe that would make more. But no i like. And i think people appreciate like that people are able to discover this by themselves and it's the support of the fan that allowed them to make three films to a degree. People really engage. In that i would say that. I assumed that would come a point writing this book what i had enough of watching shawn of the dad and that just never really happened. I truly think it's a it's a really great movie. And in the course of writing even now if i'm feeling dire i've put on the queen stopping secrets and watch watch. You know simon pegg and the rest of them. Try to beat up. The zone defy landlord with Always smiling this is so amazing that they managed to secure the rights to all those songs for that film. Was that nick angel at the best sti. Also a spike. I'm laughing because yeah so. Is this gentleman nick angel. He was the music. Supervisor was music supervisor and lots of what entitled movies. I'm laughing because then decided to to name. Simon pegues character in hot fuzz nicholas angel and was a debate. Nick angel i said. When did you realize these films were big daily. Said he was attending satisfied. Southwest one year. And i guess was funded austin or abbot was was handing a responsible and he said the guy looked at the possible examined. Said are you the nick angel from hoffa's and they said yet so i. It was just waved through yet. He said that the actually said the getting the he didn't remember getting because it's to queen songs in the movie stopped me now and then is the best friend is a the title right at the end of the film in the films also got it was gonna track by specials and got. I mean there's a whole score is well composed by pete would add an donilon foot but y- nickel remember there being any particular problem securing the music just as a side note. Those who have seen the film will know that. There is a sequence y time pag nick frost try to kill twos obeys by ride by the records at the and there's more of a story to the fact that if you want to show the cover vital records in a movie you've gotta get mission from from the act from the band. Whoever holds the rights to that. And so the silent. See sean. As charlie's debut album and you see a couple of others you don't be don't see die straights because apparently legendarily attends turns out just rights the nicest lettuce imaginable Being like you know you don't know is but making this zombie movie. And the thing is that with the records destroyed of the records characters. Don't lie so they throw a throw dot straits record because i mean at the time dire straits of a tip one of those by the success way to a bunch of jerks they show that it's really shoddy record because i think it belongs to with him. It was just split up with sean. Oh and they also throwed batman soundtrack by prince refused to show through refused us rolling sign of the times the principal but they they throw the sentra and so i didn't even think they tried to get permission from prints. I don't see that cup. You do see guy that goes like goes just talking about walk. Fantastic plus chairs. Or i guess a whole bad her because you must have got the latter being like lubbock were making zombie film. Throw you a record. What a zombie. You give us the left yet. No problem at all apparently mocked not la is the didn't get the ladder or declined to have dire straits album throwing zogby so that did not come to pass and get somebody. There is an old saint. Arnold bush the scene where they they they thought about it. Instead of prince. Throwing david bowie records bowie fan and david bowie records zone base and so it would be a hard examples but it would be like ziggy stardust. Drew thronging dory know what about elaborate santrac. Yes so. The idea is there in throws elaborate centric zombies. And i guess i did. He recalled is sort of contact with someone in bowie's camden and the message bite. The bowie was weird. Elaborates on so maybe weight about elaborates being regarded as a bit of a bit of a joke. So so so that. Do you see frost and pegg and right working together anytime in the future. Every time i speak to them and eat every time anybody speaks breaking news they always say that if they will at some point i'm sure they will at some point. Think what is what it's worth. Bearing in mind with. The is essential to essentially done for project spaced. Shaun of the dead hot fuzz and then the world's end and then not people the determined not to repeat themselves but there are also people that are interested in writing about whether in life so they did two surveys of space two seasons of space and that was essentially a show about students. When i mean not students but you know very recent students people without jobs and then they did show one of the dead which is about a person who has like what are described luck mc jaw. But will you know just to dreary pointless nine to five job kind of the point of the movie and then how fuzz is is you know about people with jobs they the cops the policemen and then the wills ends radio lock you know erm olga the older people and essentially about as middle aged depressed suicidal alcoholic. Really pretty making it sound like a fun but it is a fun movie we will have seen it and so i think the problem is the people always want they liked. But someone's lost. Maybe they want someone to make that movie again or whatever it is whether it's an album and so when they were doing space people really wanted the season of spaced. But then you they you know. They can't appoint they thought about it but but they realize after too long and they couldn't bright show was about people in their early twenties when they were now in the mid thirties. So i'm sure they will work together in various ways the do together here and that. But but i in the same way wills and is very different to sean of the dad. Probably not to be necessarily what people or even hopeful but but unsure. It'll be brilliant in its own way and people will love it just as much. When did you send us off to the editor. The publisher and i'm very curious where that's in line with the pandemic well. That was an interesting thing is when i started writing thinking about writing a book about two years ago about a year before actually signed the deal so i started thinking about it before the pandemic and so i mean this is actually not finished until the pandemic was in full sway by original plan was to ended with the death of georgia mirror essentially which was narrowly would four years ago. I'm thinking in that vicinity. Because i mean there's a lot of stuff by george romero and the book and has interviewed him and obviously shorter the dentist a love letter to george moore zombie movies and simon joe tomorrow invited simon ed good to cameo zone based in london and then after he passed away it was one of the because at the servini for george romero's star of Walk of fame. And i wasn't that. But this video of greg. Nicotera spokane malcolm mcdowell who is one of ramirez friends ugly old. I didn't know the connecticut spark and edgar was tool king of the impact that romero had on him and on the culture in general and he was sort of flanked by these to be made up zombies and arvin but thinking. Well you know that's like the final scene had had good talking about that and that will be a sort nice bittersweet ending inasmuch as you know georgia's past but people are still you know mining is is walk for creative purposes and then the corona virus net and to be clear the fact that the current of ours had chapter. This book is like a zero imports to to be. I'm not like boohoo. May at all but the corona virus heads and a number of things happened including the fact that children certainly in the uk else wish it was all over the internet but i was in the uk during this period. And you couldn't turn on twitter with simon pag saying or shown saying oh we should all go down the pub and wait for this tool blow it so much so the failure on ed get tweeted. Do not do this arena. Remember like the good thing is that shown tried something and we should all try something. Don't try this because if you remember everybody dot pretty much. Everybody does that. Go the pop and then Simon a neck did a little remote sketch where they sort of. Reprise one of the scenes in the film but again advising people not to go to the pop. So what's the plan comb. Make sure she's okay. If philip has been infected follow the guidelines to the letter wanted to of course. I want to come. You don't go to liz. Quite hunt horny which she's my girlfriend. All right great all right great. Yeah i see what you're doing. I know it's twenty twenty but the original joke wasn't intended homophobic. It was more commonly. It's of island. Recreation of signifies no aversion to mush. Kindest what it'd be. Zombies told me his image ensure the dad was being used on some australian news network everytime corona virus. Like us item. That would be a little picture of him on the shoulder. The dead the corner. In that sort of a that then wrote an epilogue of explaining all of the ask. And i would much the everett not epilogue or i'd coast that episode but i guess it did add contemporary aspect. The film i mean it's interesting because it's film that you know help wrong about this but but a little books like this. It's like this from from the early seventies and how it changed hollywood. And that's not something i get into. This isn't a book about actual change. Hollywood because not sure it did think it's almost in opposition to think i'd get grew with this opposition to the opposition to the way the hollywood has gone the even though. Yes igor is what genre. And you know showing. The data is obviously indebted georgia mirrors films debris original piece of work and all of his films are very original pieces of work really while hollywood has increasingly gone original and unoriginal. And you know i guess. I think i'd get saying this in the book that people should remember the star wars original script once a. I'd hate franchises necessarily. But you need. Someone needs to dream up these leaders. In the first way have franchise. And it's i'm hard pressed necessarily to think of edgar in the same way that i think people like you know sofia coppola pd anderson. These people who you know distributed will have distinct divisions and. I'm sure that yes. The you know. There are ways in which their influence in which they inspire the people. But you know. I'm not sure you'll hard price looking at the hollywood landscape really to be like. Oh well clearly you know the the Inspired the way things go rhino have become overtime exemption. It just does it become more and more popular of the time. With the exception of scott pilgrim which are like for the most popular cult movie of the palestinians or eleven years. It's pretty good record. It shows must like an alternative history of what might have been degree. But at least you know the history of the no histor- so what are you working on now. Do you a plan for a second book. I'm kind of thinking about it. I'm honestly gonna see how this is received but a couple of thoughts no no entirely show it depends on the received. I say entertainment weekly. Keeps me pretty busy so i mean that's the other thing that i was writing while i didn't take any time off to do this so there will be some months. It was funny pretty during the pandemic. Wouldn't think you'd have to write so much by the fact that no films were coming in. And but but i mean again. I'm being tried. Legendary is a serious thing but memory of twenty twenty s mostly by Writing about how tenant was being would be responded for another two weeks brought forward days. Or whatever so yeah. I'm kept pretty busy with. I decided to stop and good nuts but yeah if people like this then i got some i got some baby not dissimilar ideas than books. They might enjoy but But we'll see where can people keep up with you in the book. People keep up with the book by pre ordering it at amazon dot com. You got ready to new by clock. Colors can keep up with me on twitter at collins. also instagram at scott collins. People can find me on. Facebook never realizing how horribly exposed i and so many ways less. You're probably shut down at least all of these cats pretty easy to find. If you want to read a mix of my two big interests a horror movies you'll charities so much like funded just total side. But but but but adam. Green and joe lynch the movie correct on cost a yield gitari benefiting marathon every year and. I sometimes think that it's proof that will don't exist. Inside my head that there is a divided horror movies in yorkshire terriers but people want to see bitches of cute yoshito. I haven't kept up with oldest all. The news on the new gruesome movie. So they can fundamental clark college. Thank you so much for your time. This is great talking with you. Know huge firm of the junction booze. I think you're doing god's work. I know is someone who operates in you know maybe not dissimilar rena a tricky can be to track that people but also how rewarding it can be. You know when you do so so please you keep up with good work throw. Okay don't out took An airwave media podcast.

edgar chris wimmer britain uk david dunlap nick frost edgar wright london simon pegg america Db cooper entertainment weekly Khuhro clark collis edgar rice david lender magazine apple sean gena davis
Venom: Our Return

Neue Encounter

1:04:58 hr | 2 weeks ago

Venom: Our Return

"This is new encounter. A podcast hosted by nick. Mussa to film loving brains during this week we as we review and discuss the films and our never ending watchlist. Oh hello hello period period. They don't understand but yet mercer just story about her therapist. Yeah but now. It's too late so celebrate. It wasn't really that funny but it was kind of funny. Maybe if i would've told it though i would have sent her this link to the episode and gone. Hey look i talked about you on. Go ahead no. It's too late now okay. Next week will have one next week. We'll just constantly bring her up. Is looking for free. Pro awkwardly started this episode. Because it's been a while shah sound like those youtubers here are like. Hey guys it's been a while Number really has it's been seven months. Almost our last episode was what march twelfth. Not knowing of looking at it. I was like just counting down the days and months since it's been down the days But we are back with new equipment. Let us know bids go literally the only person who will notice as blaze and he's still going to say it's ass he's going to say i heard that shit nasty crinkles to me so i can fix. I don't care what you got bobby blaze. He's lying. He told me actually he said i hate blue so much. He didn't say that. I'm so sorry. Please don't cry but yeah we are back on our podcast game wherein our podcast era. A lot has happened since our last episode nick. Now here we are in the same room. Yeah finally Okay it's been a good time. We've been exploring we've been having we've been sleeping. Our new home state. Morgan not home. St bernard new harming state is our new home. We live in the new state and oregon palm. Just want to say today. It was like the first day where i really felt like fall weather. And then it got fucking hot and then it got hot. It was forty five degrees in the morning. Nice and i were jacket to work. Windows were frosted and you know what it's just so much better than being in arizona. Still i didn't even check the weather in arizona care but i know it was probably like ninety degrees today and it's just so nice to experience like people are like. Oh it's fall weather like it's so nice to get fall drinks at starbucks baba and like i never experienced that the leaves are literally changing the amount of pictures of trees that i just have taken because every is stop everyday just to take a picture of a tree even though i on the ground there literally. I look at them every day. But i'm like oh they changed. This one tree changed more red today. We'll have to pitcher. Leaves would fall on the ground during fall in arizona. The stupid ugly crinkle like the little ugly leaf trees with purple flowers. The little bushes Yeah or those weird little skinny lincoln knees. Yeah there were like green but like the trunk of it was green Ugly no-fence there's on elephants actually. Yeah we've been exploring. We've been gone out to the coast. That goes a couple of times actually only got to the coast. That's really been the heights bar explosion. It's tough to go to portland specifically explore portland. Because we have a car to yeah. We have a car. But it's a real ass city. There's like a lot of things but like not really a lot of things and really figure out what to do like you either have to park and go to an area where everything is like in that area so he can just hang out in that spot because it is a pain in the ass to go from one side of the bridge to the other side of town across the bridge the other side. 'cause it's like a northeast southwest different districts. Everything is all split up depending on the vibe. You're trying to go. It's always about the vibe and so whenever moving to that's just our whole vibe since we've been here's the coast parks. Yeah go to golden them. When we're here we go to some far. I've read one book. I'm on my second book. I have read. Two pages of doom and dune is now releasing this month so so he's just not going to finish it. This is it makes sense the podcast back this month. I told you we should've just done seasons. Though like that was the end of season one and then now we started a new season. But you said no. We're not gonna stop. No we're not gonna stop. We only took a break because life. Life happens okay. Well that was. It could still be a season. That was the midseason season break. And now now we're on our back or back. A lot is still though. I mean so. Yeah we're both in oregon now There's a vaccine now. we're back facts. Babies of the theater multiple times since our theater. Here sucks cedars. We live across the street from theater though. That's really people where we live but yeah we do live across the street from it theater directly across. It's like no it's literally directly across walk. It's right across the street like the huge parking lot is across the street and then the theater is like diagonal from us. I would say but While away i also did experience my first movie by myself which. I think we talked about when we did want vision episode. No i i swear open but then he came on like summertime where we have like some type of discussion. Like this where we are like. Oh we're shouted discussion about about her first movie by off okay. Well we discuss it. I saw my first movie by myself. i saw quiet place to at the movie theater across the street. Had a panic attack. Got bad bad vibes stamp bad vibes because it's just a bunch of kids because this movie theater. That's where kids were. I've realized now. Even though i'm an adult Teenagers scare me. They're cooler than me. I will never be as cool as them. They just don't care they just exist and they scare me and the fact that every time we go into their fucking two registers take garden that when digs cash. I've come because you can't just the kids who is because you can't trust the kids with money because they're stupid. Yeah they don't know how to count. They don't open cash steals. They have to accept cards. Because it's just kids. He's he just figured it out just figured out. Why not just have the kid at the the ticket. Because they're all kids whatever anyways it's always the same curly-haired headed kid. We've only experienced one good worker and he seemed like genuinely like go. He was drying generally like enthused to work there. Yeah enthused larger can be that bad. Is this movie the With that actually. Yeah i would never think about that one. i understand you. Just don't don't don't give me your bad vibes. I just want to watch my movie. There pretzels also suck wire. Never going to have an alamo pretzel again especially because they close the alamo got bought out in arizona left arizona in alamo draft house. There fell apart majestic theater. What is just examples sickos and the the food here in the theaters sucks. It's literally by the got the frozen pretzels. But you can buy the grocery stores and they're cheeses that cheese from the cheese machine where it's like not even like nachos aren't even like big bags of nachos bag. It's like a snack. Size bag with bil- the grocery store. No when you're doing you know the big party sized boxes. People hand out for like halloween. It's like literally that tiny little bag that you put in like your lunchbox for a child or for halloween. Just they don't even put it like then award and they just give you the bag with a plastic tray of teas Gathered cheese sucks. Like i prefer the cheese. The the theaters have where it's in a little cup like already. It's not like the big bag of cheese you put in the machine like these people have like a cup of cheese already premade inside a little plastic cup bar. I'm just realizing. Is that alamos number one superior. We also theater like branch here. We've only to the regal or the century hill. one over there in beaverton. Yeah is it a told me about that. And they said it's alright Great is it a cinemark something like that. Anyways was our apartments furnished with furniture. Mersal was sleeping on an air mattress and she had nothing in here. And then i got here and i said to him he literally just said. Oh here's our mattress. I brought it. But and then oliver crap and then i just got us furniture. I am a furnishing queen We got new equipment so going back to that. Let us know of any better. We don't have a full slyke. That's setup yet those mersa giant cabinet and it's okay. Where would we put the computer. If we didn't have the cabinet you would just put it on the floor. Exactly it's impractical space but because big so that we can Have a desk set up again. I wasn't here to stop mercer from buying it so she bought it. It's really cute though. It just doesn't fit in our house right now. If we had a real house it would perfect. But nick doesn't wanna just save it till we get a real house never going to be able to own a house Yeah thanks boomers We still have a fatcats and their fatter than ever. What else does it We had a goal of watching one hundred twenty five movies this year. And that's a flop flop literally. This guy doesn't even want to watch movies like when we have time. He doesn't wanna watch. It's hilo infinite video game grind. He doesn't stuck on halo. Just being so excited for a low infinite. I just don't wanna do anything. This guy literally like. I've started playing playing playing through halo with him. Oh yeah Members have been playing all the halo campaigns. Yeah i was gonna play them with my buddy's buddies choi blaze but no-one no-one likes one came through alex is a bitch. I don't know what that is doing. The we figure out where he's at is in mexico for a long time apparently didn't have his xbox and stuff set up didn't have internet at hall whatever house he was living in with his other buddies blaze. I guys live in a whole new life. He's driving. He's just roy is right now in the military or the air force or whatever he was doing air force not the military so just specified. Wow because i texted him happy birthday. He never responded on just pretty sure. They just took away his phone cell phones. You only get one get one phone call one month and he calls his girlfriend. Not even his mom. I'd be crazy. Well it was just a joke What else anyways. We're playing through halo once you give them a quick review of each one. I'm also. I just wanted to say that's all he wants to do. He doesn't let me rest. He doesn't let me do anything else. Like if i have a free period in my day don't want is like we have to go right now. I don't want to forget the story. Like i'm like dude. We have our whole lives to play this game. Just calm down. We could play it next week. We can play it when i have a whole as a break from school and he said no. We have to play a two week break. We didn't take it was almost makes. It was played one level. And then the next level you are on your phone and then not playing was literally four days. No i don't think so It's fine cortana 's dumb I hate that stupid bitch. Herve everyone's halo reach and that's just not in that one. You know what i think. That's actually truth. That's accurate. I think so too But no i. I just i hate her. I can't i can't be enjoying. I can't enjoy the games properly. Because she just pops up her stupid fat little face with her naked body. Sexual is little persona master chief. He's we he's not weird but he thinks he's so much cooler than he is. An what what. Those were my thoughts. Okay i guess we have to get into the movies stuff because what of return is this is meant fifteen minutes talking about scrap into the movie. That's blaze's biggest complaint about our gases that we don't immediately talk about the movie but we have realized of side of movies bro. You don't care about our people you don't care about us. In gorgeous baseless podcasters movie movie bots. Talking about them to venom let there be carnage carnage stupid name. I don't care just came out Today actually like officially was the release date but we got see it yesterday. Yesterday's when we saw yes yes. Yesterday you got the synopsis. Yes go ahead after finding a host body and investigate reporter investigative reporter eddie brock. The alien symbiotic must face. A new enemy carnage the alter ego of serial killer. Cletus cassidy only ninety seven minute. Did you read letterbox removed. Andy circus director. This guy. yes this dummy mcgee guy gholam alerted rings. I'm never watched that. He's the ball from black panther. No he's literally the gay boss from thirteen day boss from thirteen going on thirty. And he's the durham yes Yet ninety seven minutes. That's what i wrote him. That's everyone's about how short the runtime is because it's the shortest superhero movie since fantastic four rises over Server and does. Maybe i really. I didn't see the fan force thick. The one that came out with miles. I never saw that one. I just didn't see any of them carried start. They're nice been runtime. I think that helped out a lot because it was very like i. I feel like it was actually the perfect time. 'cause i don't think i could have handled anymore of it literally. That's what i mean. That's what i'm trying to say. Because the first one was stupid. The first one is stupid. I don't remember the first one. I enjoyed the first one because it was so stupid. I was like this. Is the dumbest movie ever. But i'm having fun and that's fine and that's why i have like i don't have don't bad memories of it on like the wasted my time. I never watched again. Like he's all that or something. Sorry addison ray But this one is just marginally better. He just feels like a funny guy like just so weird that he's in this universe and he is a villain 'cause he doesn't even feel like a villain because he's just a funny guy he's like I'm just in your body alien. Tea is just a very weird take on venom. And it's fine because it works. It makes them money. And it's what tom hardy's having fun clearly i think he this is his favorite thing. He's ever done clearly but killed. He'll make like seven of these movies. No cab yeah Clearly what is working. They took about work from the first one. Which is everyone all anyone loved about. The first one was the relationship between eddie and venom And just like their banter and that's ninety percent. His movie is them talking to each other. And like i think. Andy circus even setting in a in a interviews like their old mary couple and they. He took inspiration from another movie. That i forgot what movie but as the same concepts old mary couple age-ish other break up. Get back together baba and they were fighting to We can have like a non spoiler. Section is love how we always have non spoiler sections but then we just end up going. We're going shut out of it because it doesn't matter we're getting into spoilers but we can at least quickly go over non spoiler thoughts of the movie and then going to spoilers Soda your initial bucks. Not spoiler non spoiler I had a good time. I didn't like the beginning. I was very confused confusion. Because i had. It didn't make any sense literally no sense at all because we were introduced to like new characters right off the bat. Who are you never seen you before them a long time ago. It doesn't really seamlessly connect with the first one. It doesn't really pick up where the first one left. It's just like slugs off like a prologue thing. And then i don't even remember. They reintroduces the eddie and he just i swear they're the cop like doesn't it change to like the cop being a grown grown up and they're like oh you have to go to the league prison to talk to him in the hallway right. Yeah yeah i remember now. But like edge. I was just like i feel like i was like a re tread as the end end mid credit scene. Whatever from the first one shows him interviewing cletus. Mccaw woody harrelson had like the stupid big curly hair. I don't recall literally that movie. Nothing i thought him and not girl stayed together but clearly i wasn't watching. The movie did not remember the first one i is no baby was there and they were both there. That's it I don't like the other characters. Like introduce them. And i just don't care about them yet. That's on them though. That's why i didn't really like the movie or like like like everyone's like oh. This isn't so much better than the second one. it's so great the first one then the first one. Yeah like. I think it's better than the first one because i don't remember the first one and i feel like if i if it was good i remembered it and i would have like feelings towards it so this one i feel like i like it better but also i'm like i don't care about them like any i don't care about anything that happens except van veneman eddie so it does everything better than the first one but not by much. I guy doesn't it still doesn't have a story that i carry about care about or characters i care about besides eddie and brock and it's i can't imagine them jumping from i mean but if they were to make like venom three it would probably be like the exact same thing again with just eddie brock bancer and or eddie and venom banter just eddie brock nyack. Because like when i it's so weird too 'cause yeah the way they have venom exist in this way. It just super weird. I'm so sorry. With this new microphones if you guys just heard me like weird quiet burp. It was so gross It again continue. Okay what. We are introduced venom in spiderman. Three from sami. yeah well was his first movie venom. Yeah yeah so like so. Venom story has always been. He starts out with spiderman attached to spiderman and then he gets the eddie brock but like that was our first. That was my first introduction. I assume i don't assume everyone's first introduction because blaze will be like i read common. Everyone will be like. I read coming. I watched the animated cartoon. But yeah like he is completely different. From what i know of venom now. This is a whole different venom. So it's just like super weird. I feel like that's fine because he didn't attach himself spiderman. I blaze explained it to me too. He was like oh venom. Is supposed to like take your darkest thoughts or like darkest feelings and like turn them up to ten. But he doesn't really do that to eddie brock. Because there'd be a fast versus bff's katie rise and he's a good guy in this one. He's not like a of little bully guy. Yeah 'cause yeah. Eddie like a piece of shit basically and i mean he's just a loser in these one. He's not a pizza shack but he's a loser loser even in the sam me one member. When he's like steals the voter shops the picture and everything does not being a loser. That's being a piece of shit. He's a loser I feel like. I don't i don't know much about venom Like i was an existence of a a thing if we were like. I don't know i don't even know where i'm going with it. Like he just doesn't make sense in my brain in this universe just doesn't doesn't fit in because he's just like some alien thing but like he's not like the old venom where he actually is a villain because he doesn't feel like a villain at all in these. He's just literally by being like chocolate inch. Tv watching he just wants to be free. Just wants to be when my hair Yeah so the this one. I still don't care about the story as they don't care about the characters care about the story a little bit more now on the credit scene. But we'll get to that woody harrelson performance. I didn't like he was very weird. Which i mean. He's buying a serial killer. So that's fine but i didn't like his performances disparity odd like if he existed like that in real life. It just seems weird wasn't convincing. He didn't feel like actual serial killer. He just felt like a weirdo with ugly close. His dialogue was very awkward. His accent goes to feel like he made his gap-tooth even more gabby must also didn't recognize michelle williams at all. It took me like she needed like three scenes on the screen. Find before really her first scene in the movie he was like the recast. The recast like no. That's her. she just has a face. That looks like a dozen belongs to was just stupid her bangs. Just they don't suit her. What does her hair looked like in real life. Because i know that that that's the worst hairstyle you could give. Her action. scenes are also fine but not really memorable which i mean. The first one was as well Ending battles cool carnage is cool carnage carnage not cletus casts cassidy woody harrelson. The carnage is cool. Like him. like he is an actual villain villain was cool. see and then how does villain have villains. It just doesn't make sense of an anti hero Benham's venice funny. When he first tries to fight carnage and he's like oh shit. Let's read one. We gotta i gotta go gotta go. We gotta go which they spoiled the trailers i saw on one of the trailers. It would have been funnier but of laughing multiple times throughout the movies. I think that's why overall enjoyed it. Those having having fun But at the end of the. I don't care yeah i wouldn't like i mean i would probably watch their movies where it's like. I wouldn't willingly put it onto rewatch but if it was like if i am out of house and people still have real. Tv and it was on the channels for real tv and out of all the things. I'd be like okay. I'll watch this. So i would watch the first one just to make fun of it because it's stupid But still have a good time. But this one i would. I wouldn't willingly put it onto reward. You'll be like oh yeah. Let's watch it but if it yeah like you said if it was something if it was on i would have a good time. I wouldn't be like oh no. I'm not watching though. I feel like that's how i have to classify re watches in my brain because sometimes people like don't understand my concept of rewatching right khazar things where it's like. Oh i will rewatch thirteen going on thirty period ninety seven minute running time definitely helped though. Yeah i think if it was any longer. I would literally. I don't think i would go like it would bother me but i think it would just be too much and i just isn't over yet like why is it so going on your The pacing of is also very rapid. Because of that runs. I'm just jumping the ending to though i feel like was very abrupt before like the actual like end credit scene stuff like i feel like the ending just period like after the fight scene. It was like oh my god we everything maybe Yeah it's over nothing really. I think it's just down to the story loose. And it's just it's just a very very basic story and there's not really loose ends to wrap up even though they didn't really wrap up a loose ends with bluebottle an honest spoilers at what's it okay we can go into I don't understand the mulligan turning into streak or shriek infecting him I didn't really care for her character. Either yeah i decided funny She would just yell and then carnage. We get mad at her shut. Your mouth literally hated her guts and then when she just wouldn't stop he was just gonna kill it. He was like it's over it's done and then cleared this was like No my lie down. And then eddie was like look. They're not good for each other. Where good with each other. We're perfect for each other. Perfect match and then venomous psycho. We are about to have sex with each other. Oh you better disgusting. They i guarantee. I think there's something like that in the comics. That doesn't even make any a couple. Let's seven movie. Does that doesn't make any sense. I'm gonna look it up. You're seco- i'm not sick. Sick eddie. or sicko mode activated Fight seamless carnage and venom was cool. I didn't expect them to kill him. Does carnage is like one of those iconic venom villains. He just ate him and he's eight. His i'm bad is about eighty eight cletus news like this guy don tom. Hardy's voice for venom is very hilarious. I need subtitles for it though. But very annot the scene at the club where everyone thought he literally coming out as as an ally lighter more like being gay or something and they're like yeah and he's like we should hosted closets amounts and he's just literally coming out to the world hold us. Lgbt movie okay. But they don't they don't you don't need to talk about that that's gross. He's literally lives inside him anyways. Um ah what else was when It's so weird when he transforms santa an are like when he's an aunt body because he's slim. Slighty has like a woman's body it's super weird and she's always just like the first movie to you. Remember yeah i remember like after i saw it in this one i was like oh wait. She looked like that in the last one to an everyone like laughed at the first thing is just funny that they of course did it again just to do it again. my favorite was when Carnage cletus hack. The police network from a gas station. Laptop lid i remembered. That's the one scene from the movie where i was like. Fuck yeah let's okay. He literally as we stuck his fingers in it and they just accessed police vials said need authorization code and is is in the ninety ages. Get on that software. Where did you go station left. He just said. Google me babu. Don't need her carnage was also just born to so he literally said i want my father. I guess he gets all the knowledge from benham because you know then talking about like he his billions of years of knowledge from the simba symbiosis. Yeah stuff. I guess that makes sense but that guy carnage literally why he hated venom so much. What do you like. what's your problem. Why why are you mad. Why you mad at you're born also didn't get that feeling because the whole thing with carnage Is supposed supposed to be that. He's like super scary because he's attached to a serial killer so he goes like like he's very scary like he's like a horror movie like but he didn't but he was just like a a villain i mean when he goes on the rampage in the alcatraz prison. Yeah that was kinda cool but spooky. It would've been clerk was rated r. because it's like all the deaths and stuff happened offscreen or like when he eats their head. It's like empty head like when the body. no. I liked her he was like. Oh i'm right here. And then he was like people who and then he killed her when when carnage when he came inside her little secret house and typing on the dr bruce shrieks thing so stupid. What is the point of going to go over there. And just taunt her because she can. Yeah just 'cause she can light boyfriend escape artists thing. Oh wait go. I know my son was on the doctor stupid. She deserved to die. Just went over there. Just tante i don't even know like. Why did they have her. Why did they want her what. They're not doing anything with her like they'd literally turn around just to have her pretty much. See them running. Isn't it make any sense uis. They're just so the doctor had someone to laugh at and make fun of. yeah because what. I thought it was like an old people's home like when you looked at the outside. Yeah yeah. I was so confused like why they have this truck in monster girl in their basement. None of them make sense. That's what i'm saying. The story the beginning very x. Men though like i was like. Oh that's something to so they say shriek. They mentioned something about mutations with streak. Yeah so that's the first mention of moons. I dunno. i don't know her back story in the comics though. So she's dead anyway so slow said about church bell. honor a scream I think that's those are all of my pot. I didn't really have a lot of thoughts as it probably simple. It was probably not the best movie for us to come back with an episode for because we're going to talk about the credit scene. But i meant like didn't have like a lot of thoughts but the only reason why this is an important piece of information is because of the end credit scene which is like if we already spoiled the move for you which i feel like. It's not even anything crazy until we talk about this credit thing. We forgot to mention that. You know you did mention the cop and streak nevermind. I thought those the first spoiler thing which i don't know what their plan is with him. I thought he died and you were like he deserved it. Yeah she lit straight up broke his back. There's no way he's still alive. I don't she's not a symbiosis. I don't what she infect them with. I don't want whatever okay. So we're gonna unless her stupid little soul like transferred. I guess who knows. We're gonna talk about the credit seen though the mid credit scene is no end credit scene so after the end credits seeing but it's the mid teen If you have not seen it already spoiled for you because people don't know how to shut up it's on talk just go. It's all over tick-tock literally today. I got multiple techniques talking about it and showing its people also there was a fan screening of them. Like was it last week two weeks ago. Thank taylor weeks ago and they were it was like a it was just fans so usually when they do an advance screening of a movie. It's like critics and like writers so that they signed like arms that they can't talk about the movie they sign. Nda's basically that they can't talk about the movie and they can't spoil anything and those are professionals so they're not gonna spoil anything. This is just a fan screen. These were normal people so of course they spoiled everything so i didn't think the leaks through. I was like they have to be true. Like the defensive of stupid of course they're going to talk about everything that happens Say i guess you don't want to know what the mid credits scene is. Up in the notes spoiler alert spoiler. You've been warned one hundred times to leak was that's you know veneman eddie or watching. Tv and then the broadcast of jameson from or far from home where he's revealing peter spiderman is on tv. So that wasn't. That's all that i saw was from the league's was that's what i heard is that it was on tv. But in the actual graded seen they clearly get transported to the msu. Yeah like that's why it's on our. Tv is now in that universe. Yeah so so. That was multi her. That was really smart because they couldn't stick in just have venom exist. And be like yeah. It's the same universe and then just review hang out. Peter piper because never acknowledged the avengers or anyone else he just was in san francisco all by himself and man was also in san francisco. But no menem was just as san francisco of the sews a lot smarter to have be transported. Obviously we don't know what transported them yet could be. Low-key could be one doctor strange's spell in no way home. Yeah we have. There's so many things aren't could have caused this whole thing. the end. just say all they have plans coming for us. They know it's gonna fuck in iraq. Wash it if it was doctor. Strange that transported them then that when they're watching it on tv that's not the same time that like peter's watching from times square and far from home because that would make any sense spell takes place. After is peter goes to to ask him to have everyone's minds race basically. Yeah so that would make any sense but yes crazy. He's now it doesn't make sense time. Line wise like where it fits in. I mean they'll fill in. They'll be like whoa unless it's like like in spider verse. How some of them were like the same event happened but some of them got thrown back like a couple of days or like yeah and so maybe like the spell pops it open and it. A good point brings him back like months ago. Like how gwen stacy inspired versus like yeah. Hers was a week before for some reason. That's why yeah she was going to school in. Yeah that could be a good idea for them to do. I mean that's a sony movie too. So they would just repeat it but but yeah they would just still the idea from it. Yeah venomous now onto something assumed Do you think he's going to be in no way. Yeah you think so. Easy easy easy. Did you see the picture of tom. Hardy wearing a noam hat. No that was also another thing that kind of confirmed it he was. It was like some areas something in his wearing a span. No him at so. That's even more like yahtzee in the movie he has the merge he's wearing the merge it could he be one of the centers was six in that moving. I dunno crazy spider-man. it's funny because venom. Like kinda recognize them like or like felt something when he's on screen bag high and he looked the screen unless he just said That's a sexy little head. Qazi love with. Tom olin he literally. He said another tom. Tom anyways that's really cool though That was like the best movie and it was just a minute crediting. Correct sorry november benham Here's just so cute because they were just watching. Tv own his total. Yeah he just like oh. Why did they keep secrets. Something jumped in bub-bubba like shut up. Dude shut up Breezy sued evans. Spider-man's gonna rock shit though like this whole new color right overhauling a mess of characters. That's how i felt in the spider man with the electro guy and and the andrew garfield wants yeah at tie Just so much too much so much gone on. That's also kind of the same thing with spiderman three especially had sandman and reimann areas goblin and venom. Crazy guys too much going on. They thought they try to. We'll see manner. Hopefully do right. This is going to be like if it is right. It's going to be so sexy but it is very exciting to because if they if marvel did agree to combine sonian sony's universe m. mc you as there was like an interview time ago. With his head of sony in the head of an kevin foggy and she was like yeah. Our plan is the like combined the universes and everything and you can see his face like he's a now and all that all that unless y'all let me take charge and that is also the thing from the mobile trailer member of the moebius rattler longtime ago maurice with jerry leto. The vampire movie. And it had michael. Keaton about Volterra at the end. No no i don't even know what you're talking about. Some more vious is is another anti hero. Whatever is like a whatever. Why would they bring. Jared lido leto in here this world. I don't know why does career. I don't know who loves him. Who's signing his is not act looking. He's not looking. He's not a good actor that he's done. I have not enjoyed like. I literally have not enjoyed glad. He's not the joker anymore. Even though it kinda is snyder brought him back sit bitch. Bids snyder cut wasn't even that great. Okay hold on. i'm getting. I'm so sorry i just wanted to start. I found sturgeon. Okay so yeah moebius this is going to be seized. Most down voted episode. Hope so. Because i said all y'all cider fans are gonna come for us release they're gonna crop the episode and cut it to just where we say that part and then later in the couple years when we get canceled they're just gonna post Probably yet moebius anyways vampire. It was supposed to come out a long time ago but it kept getting delayed. I think it's coming up next year But at the end of the trailer he walks by a he walks by a thing in the wall and it's spiderman but it's it's the most embarrassing thing because it's a screen shot from the ps four spiderman. Wearing the sam raimi sue. Whoever put that there doesn't know anything so everyone was like. Oh it's these spiderman existed. Miss universe could be tomlin's and i'm like no because it's ps four spiderman. It's a screen shot from ps four spiderman in. Its he's wearing. Sam raimi's sue. But he walks by that and then. When did this trailer exists along very long time ago. A long time and never heard of her but yeah he might go qian's vulture. I keep trying to save calgary. Michael keane is like he says something like something witty and so it was like whoa. He's in the new. And like i don't know what how they're gonna keep exploring. That was the entire sony all the sony characters and heroes and everything transported to them. You like venomous. Or what or they. They don't know what they're doing so they just at the to marvel marvelous. Like okay. fine. You can bring venom because venom is successful. Maybe and they made that mid credit scene. They said oh. Are y'all dropping your movie here. Just though the central a quick venom one made a lot of movie Okay you can maybe bring him in. He's had we like money. He's a day made a lot of movie some money. Now you'd i send money now you when you listen back. You're going to hear you the money you said money the second time when you said oh we like money but you said oh amid movie. I'll be boom anyways I think what did you give it on letterbox. Five three five. I think i would also agree written a review. No i was trying to think of what i wanted to say. Okay three of five. Yes not great. I don't know. I think the first one to two and a half. I feel so marginally better. But it's not so by law by lots Just a good movie. So victor asked me what what what i thought of it because he he. He's semi talk of the end credit scene and i was like yeah just and he was like. Oh what do you think. Is it a good movie. And it says all right. This is barely better than the first one. Yeah i was at work. And i was like oh just i saw venom. Maybe she was like. Oh i bet no. Now that october's big month though we gotta lots of movies. Finally we're gonna mercies never seen any of the daniel craig dame watching them. I've seen all of them. Besides sky fall. I just watch them for the first time earlier. This year will not watch to watch them. Yeah i'm not going to. I'm only going to watch the new one. 'cause t. mobile's gimme for dollar tickets for team on tuesday and Who else is in the movie either. Was him from nice out. Or anna yeah. I was like eva. Who anna damas beautiful woman. Oh yeah. I forgot because i was like. Oh they're both knives out together and now they're bff's because now they're in james one. Yeah so i'm going to watch it. 'cause it's just going to be fun but he's old. It doesn't make sense movie but like it doesn't extent how he's that old still like james bond daniel craig's james bond james bond like as a as a character because they just keep rebooting him. But like your old dude does retire. I don't care villains are still coming after you. Just go off the grid. Kill yourself do something. Well know each james bond's character or like each actor is a difference james bond. It's not like all sequels but he has done numerous movies him. Greg yes yes. His are all sequels yes. That's what i'm saying. You're just to retire. Yes like his james bond. I don't care about any other games on. I don't give a fuck him. As james bond he's done like seven movies so his james bond and his james bond universe is old retire okay but if they restart the universe and there's a new james bond he's twenty two call. They said they're going to start searching for jane's next he's probably gonna be forty something probably he's not he's going to also be old they should they should try a young james bond. They won't because they think young people aren't sophisticated and they want which is also why they don't want Woman or a box percents play it. Because they're not sophisticated. Yeah and they keep saying oh we just. Why don't you just create a new character if you wanna cast the woman or a person of color. Something we'll just great new characters for them. Yeah which it makes sense like. Yeah you can create new characters for these people but also like you. Why can't why can't they be these other. People like important figures as well because james bosnia the they're not going to make james bond their own. Why they they're not going to be. What is it. they're not going to create a character specifically for a black person specifically for women. Whatever just not going to. So why. Kick them out of the james bond. We're not gonna have anyone similar. Today's mon to give them took create something new for them. We're getting content that we would bring up in the james bond movie or as bound up. Cut it all out and save it for next one. We got james bond coming up. We got dune. We've got french dispatch. We got halloween kills. On the i literally and reboot we literally watched halloween's halloween original scenes. And now the sequel to the reboots sequel re sequel recent equa- so is coming out. Well we're gonna have lots asaf and it's kind of nice because it's going to be on peacock so we don't have to go to the theater. Also feel so weird. 'cause i swear. We just did like spooky season. We did that thing to. We missed out on our like year anniversary or birthday our birthday or year from our first upset. We missed out on our us. Now we're back into spooky season. We gotta do it again. But we can't do species in this year because there's too many movies that we have to talk about that we're supposed about if we were more popular than we could definitely jar patriotic finally and do like real movies out on the on the regular feed and then spooky season would be like a special thing for the pot are patriot. Malignant was greats We should have done an episode on her way. That would have been fun. Am black widow sucked if you hadn't haven't seen malignant to scott watch it. Don't even w try to be serious when you watch it. Just fucking very brain off and have some fun very camp jerry. Like if if this movie was made a long time ago it would've dass ass coke lawsuit for sure. I'd like to give it a few years like it's literally the perfect film. I so stupid. Like i think this is a movie i would. I would willingly rewatch. i think. Now outer it's it's it's pretty spooky to it's a good. it was. Yeah i was like oh. This is so funny and stupid guy. I would willingly like next next year. I'll probably put it on speakeasies. I'll be like y'all rewatch malignant Voyeurs sweeney not a good movie overall bud good movie because sydney's we need Sean she did what she did was she. They gave her and they gave her a sexual role. Yes sanjiv great She's all that great. He's all off horrible. I never i would horrible. I don't even have words. It was upon my worst enemy. I wouldn't really bad. I think that's a form of torture is making someone watch. He's all that. I just can't believe that. They made a remake first off and did such a horrible job with it. Like it is already getting addison ray any okay so here my thought they could have given addison ray any any netflix movie. Anything just they shouldn't have remade. He's all that they could have just made a whole new story made a whole new thing done whatever i think it would have been so much better but the fact that they were trying to copy this shitty little story line. They just made some influence or movie where they wanted to do. Make over cool. It would've probably been much better. But the fact that they were trying to remake she's all that yea ruined it because they were trying to literally follow the plot point feel like people. I don't lose. It was already going to be popular enough. They were gonna make their money back from the budget. Why did they need so much product placement. I can i take this game so scared movie and it was like the number one movie on netflix. Addison ray has so many little stupid fans who would watch it like they were so stupid. Candyman palsy movie great. It was great it was actually really good I thought it was just going to be like a silly little like music videos. Yeah like casey musk's some sorry casey. So sorry you're divorced. In it was pointless it could have been done better but housing houses actually had like a story line. She had a lot of stuff like put into it. She was naked suicide. The suicide squad. We also watched legally blonde the time for the first time it wasn't it's not important spelling but yeah it's a it's a classic so these suicide squad Regretfully say it is pretty it was. It was pretty good when i think about it now. Though i'm like i wouldn't put it like high on my list of movies for the year like it's definitely in the lower and but i had a good time watching. The green knight sexy. Great if you don't think dev patel's xy you're lying to yourself. You're racist actually. Okay hold on no you. You don't think. Deputy sexier racist space jam space jam. New legacy was not good but the best joke in there was about michael jordan and it was greats like i said black widow s. a. Luca was good look was q. I didn't feel the feels that everyone else felt but it was. It was good. Zola was susan. Okay i think i keep thinking about it. I'm like i think it's just cool. Because we experience the solo story like it was on the internet. We were on twitter. I was in class ass refreshing. Yeah and it was just happening that. Yeah that's the it's it's a movie it's just a monumentous monumentous. Momentus time in my life. I think they did a good. I think i think the i liked the whole social media thing about it whereas where would show like the iphone stuff basically. I just think a could have been better if i know eight. Twenty four was probably the best production company to make the film even though they don't really have a say. But also i feel like it's more the director stylistic thing but there was just a lot of stuff where i was like. Oh it's kinda dislike visual like. They're just doing suffer visuals and not. Oh yeah telling the story. Oh yeah. I means yeah it was a f- if nine fuck them we be to I can barely remember that movie. A stupid they went to space space stupid. They had literally are no longer like little criminal race car. Type driver people they're just spies. I don't know anymore. I said this. I said because everyone was liking it because it was just one of those movies where it's so ridiculous you end up enjoying it. Kind of like how how. I feel about venom and malignant. But it just wasn't. I just couldn't i couldn't turn off my brain. I couldn't enjoy. It was dumb and is like they weren't even trying they just know they're gonna make money they know it's a part of the franchise. People love this franchise. They loved the family. family stupid names. That came out of it clearly. Someone planted those beams from the studio for marketing. They said were funny. We have to drop these. Those means. we're funny. I don't care what any i watched in the heights. Nick did not watch the heights. But i watched. I actually really liked it. It's kind of embarrassing. How much i liked it. But i just really love musicals. I think that's mostly it. I watched the third conjuring. It was alright. Smyrna denault watch it. It was okay. Wasn't that as speaking as the first two. Oh that's when you watch that. And i washed in the heights. Yeah okay Bo burnham grades guy I think that's also crazy to me. Is that hold on. Before bo burnham i watched a movie on my own as well it was called plan. B it's at twenty twenty but it was more Like a fun time. I don't know. I just have a really great. We'll soon with haley. haley lu. Richardson was that one called On pregnant yeah. This one was called. Plan b This one was nice khazar Women of color or like girls of color because they're teenagers And it was just so. I know it was so different. 'cause like showed more of their lake family upbringing and stuff like that and just like one two lesbian. I don't know it was just different but it was also the same story who is nice. I liked it then. We watched bo burnham bo burnham that that's also it's also crazy to me that we saw him in brazil him and i love to recognise diviner uses. Viner i bring up all the time like guys in real life i was in. Everyone loves them. Everyone loves spill. And i'm like everyone's like yeah. He's larry's levin was comedian. And every time i tell people they're like what i saw monroe life. Yeah there was a qa. He didn't answer. No one asked him any good questions. I just asked him about his question. I wanted to ask him. But i know is better than what everyone else asked them. Yeah it was superior partout pretty good. We watched correla. Rollo's pretty good honestly surprised me. Yeah i i liked it. It was a fun time. A woman in the window ass. I'm sorry. amy adams that they keep doing this to you. I promise one day we will get you through this. I watched army of the dead. Which is zack. snyder's movie Kind of as well The handmaiden pretty good. That was a great. Mary gay movie. It was very gay but also it. Just you had no idea what was going on. They just thrown over and that was a crazy movie. You recommend movie. That's good one the handmaiden. Yeah You have to watch with subtitles. Always forget some people don't like Like it's a foreign movie. Dad's a foreign language movies I watched love and monsters. Which was okay. Let's begin again but that was my good movie. That was my first watch. I think you've seen like bits and watch as well. Oh i watched the charlie's angels trilogy. Yeah what it's not really trilogy. The third one is just a the reboot so technically it's just the charlie's angel Movies in general We godzilla vs kong kong godzilla. We watched all was asked them very disappointed in it. We watch tv baby. Great movie should've baby shiva baby. Yeah oh sorry i'm not. I'm not jewish which was very crazy uncut gems by bisexual Because we are less was march so yep cool just kept going just kept just kept going to make a mark in the thing to let people know that lightning round. It's just lightning review. Don't wanna listen to us. Go on about all the things we've sold they're going to listen. I don't give a fuck okay. I'll make sure. I'll tell everyone you have to listen to the and if you do listen to the full episode i will give you a dollar. You can van mummy. I will me dollar on patriot. Dot com slash new encounter. Actually you do that. I'm not giving dollar 'cause. I know everyone's just going to go and me for no reason. I'm poor. I only have one job now number another topic to end. Okay goodbye. follow us on all socials. New governor on twitter. We have facebook. I'm trying to utilize it so that old people can know we exist. Follows on spotify. Subscribe to us on apple. Podcasts said pedro. Narcan flash new encounter joining scored. We have numerous tears on our patriotic. If you don't want to give a lot of money you can give us two dollars a month. It's just for support nick's mom does it. She's our only follower We have a discord building our discord pea brain club. Don't ask why was taking down. Don't why i'm rebuilding or rebranding not really rebranding same branding but rebuilding and becoming a new so we have a discord join it. We're going to have lots of fun time. Discussions for tiny little pea brain community because we love you So far just a nick in our new one. Because i haven't told anyone about it. It's not fully finished. I have to finish the roles and stuff but other than that. It's ready to go and sheriff's with your friends. If have any if you have any funding would be much appreciated Yod spread the word. Pretty much it tell them these bitches watch movies the kind of sound kinda stupid but at least they're audio sounds better exactly 'cause that's on that cares about. I know one hundred percent of you. Ninety nine point eight percent of you only hope blissful. This episode was plus. We needed these marks because we live on a noisy noisy road. I'm surprised ambulance jinx right. Now there's going to be and you know what you as going to be grateful because you're not gonna hear the you're gonna faintly faintly hear the ambulances or whatever cardamon honking by. I'm gonna make my own podcast with this microphone and as an an as more podcasts. Ain't gonna be grateful because with our old eggs with our blue yeti ugly mike's you would hear everything we would literally have to stop cut out. Whatever interrupted us and then restart over this. We can literally. I would move on the bed and it would just you could hear them but like the blankets moving. This is a dynamic. Mike so i don't know what that means. It means it only gets the sound directly in front of the mike instead of all around it well so stupid setting on the blue yeti doesn't even i can work. Okay now you're just ramble. He's just going on bass loosening things. Miodrag were literally next week. We will see you do it next week. We'll see you next week next week. One hundred percent we will see with our eyes and if we get more will we will do the october patriots. Buki month things and we'll do more episode. Maybe we'll do that. Christmastime forgive christmas time. Yeah let us know. I have so many ideas and no one cares about us so please different thereby much goodbye.

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Episode 533: Daratt (2006)

The Projection Booth Podcast

2:13:00 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 533: Daratt (2006)

"An airwave media podcast. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history all told with cinematic music and sound design subscribed for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast to hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws laws. Like jesse james and butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache. We use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. It's people pay money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the protection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. Ambitionless sauce supra formula team miss item. Abedin's jimmy dean katina young. Typically betty. don't sneh the secretion no welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host mike. White journey once again is mr krista shoe. Hello mike thank you for inviting me to your podcast once again. I'll be cordial with you. I think last time you're on my show. It was thank you for having me chris. So thank you for having me mike and joining me for this month is mr spencer. Seems hello mike. Thank you for inviting me on. African cinema continues with a look at met saleh harpoons. Two thousand six film direct also known as dry season. It's the story of a young man. A tim and his grandfather and chad. Upon hearing that. War criminals have been given amnesty attempts. Grandfather gives him a gun and tells him to kill massara. The man who killed attempts father we will be spoiling this film so we haven't seen derived please try out the podcast and come back after you have. We will be waiting so spencer was the first time you saw the film in. What did you think. I've been trying to remember. Exactly when i think maybe two thousand fifteen or fourteen was on fan door. Which i think is still around. And because they have lar- african movies I saw the thumbnail. And i thought this like a fun action movie and well. It's not that and immediately became one of my favorite movies period. immediately bought the the french dvd. And like it's kind of. I been kind of loki obsessed with this movie for like the last six years and chris. What did you think durant when you first saw it spencer. I like how you mentioned. It looked like a fun action movie. Because i would contend it is neither fun not as in. It's not enjoyable to watch. But it is a film talking about a very serious topic and it talks about it in a very serious way. It is not an action film in any stretch of the imagination though it does kind of look like one and it is again. It is a i mean. Look at sake about amnesty and war criminals and who knows better about that than let's say the united states but for those who don't know about african history that is a huge part civil wars a massive part of modern contemporary african history. Unfortunately so but first time was this for the show and you know it was good. I enjoyed it. This was my first time watching it as well. And yeah when they were talking about like chad civil war. I was like okay. When was that. And i had to go look it up and only defined that there have been civil wars from sixty five to seventy nine seventy nine eighty six two thousand five two thousand ten which means that while this film was being made there was a civil war that was going on and i think that the movie is talking more about the sixty five to eighty six type of war. It seems like that would have been when a tim. Our main character was born would have been during that period and think. He said that he never knew his father. His father died. While tim's mom was pregnant so never got to meet his father at all. And of course. There's a lot of stuff about fatherhood about masculinity about responsibility. There's a whole lot of stuff about family in this film yet. It is not an action movie but man it was so riveting. I didn't know at all what to expect. I mean just so you know spencer. I don't read about these movies at all before ago. In so watching this for the first time i was like all right. I'm with this movie like pretty much from the get go and it took me places. I wasn't expecting. I was really happy with the journey and the other thing that i was happy about is the fact that unlike a lot of foreign films that you and i have watched together mike and i'm only speaking to the ones that you and i have watched and discussed together which is a fairly large list of things. This movie's plot is fairly boilerplate. Which makes it rather easy to follow. Which is something that we have had issues with in the past with foreign films because again sometimes just the way it's presented isn't it necessarily the easiest to follow along. I talk about you know. I think i would probably as you would agree. Might go to some of the japanese films that we watched even if they're intentionally misleading sometimes. They're unintentionally misleading due to the number of characters the complexity of the plot. What have you so. I also appreciate the fact that this is really new. Boil it down to its base elements. A boy is going on a mission to kill the man who killed his father and everything else is built off of that but that being kind of the entry way the opening part of this fill is setting that stage so quickly and easily in getting out of the way. I appreciate that gets right to it. It doesn't really add anything else that we don't need at the outset. I wanted to bring up the civil war aspect sites award but They're dealing with Terrorism andy former president idriss db but he was present slash dictator for thirty years and he died on the battlefield allegedly like a few months ago. The fine terrace. So this is civil. Unrest is still a big issue in the other thing is during the production. There was a terrorist attack in this where in the city during ali-ba cars birthday when he turned eighteen the star that inspired the next film a screaming man while her ruse my favorite living filmmaker. This is like stuff. I think about all the time but the major themes are family family politics in how politics can affect that they like the common african is always a politics in the sense of. It's a situation that they can't control. They have to make decision. That is not a moral decision. Just like they are forced into making a life or death. Decision on some level against their will if they don't want to make and there's always like a young woman in involved. There's usually creating a family where there without familial blood or anything there's a us like fathers and sons or like parents and parent-child relationships Dot is the prime like example of this is what haroon is interested in. You just described the entire velvet if all of his films are like that those topics transcend country lines. I mean that's kind of what i was talking to. The beginning of this right is like this is just so relatable as a topic in an idea that i think i mean you could show this to a lot of people who have no interest in watching subtitled films. And i think they would enjoy this. I think they would understand it and really be able to sympathize with the plight of the main character. It's premises silent film. You don't need dialogue. yeah in there are so many images that tell us so much of what's going on. I mean the first time. I tried to watch this. I was watching imprint. That was subtitled in french. When they're speaking arabic ohs subtitled in french. But then when it wasn't it just wasn't subtitled at all. So i was not necessarily that. Lost though i mean really. It's like i said at the beginning. He find out about this amnesty. The grandfather's like okay. Here's this gun. Go kill the guy that murdered her father and then they go yeah the discussions and the dialogue that they have really isn't that consequential to stuff it is much more about the images i mean think. About how many times we see an image of a man pointing a gun in someone else's face right from the get-go even when a tim like is on the back of this truck and is going to the big city. There's a guy who's just like. Why are you staring at me. And rather than have a conversation or anything or even rather than to threaten to punch him he immediately pulls out a gun and puts it right in the in attempts face. And it's just like okay. It's going to be one of those movies and there's a lot of guns in the face throughout this whole thing but then there are these much more quiet moments where you are just with these characters and really getting to know what they're thinking even without them saying a word and also helps you have rather emotive actors like yusuf two zero. He has a great look to him just out of the gate. I mean he is. One of those is an actor who he hit like. You always say my kid's a great face. He really does. And that face reinforces the sadness of this character in kind of the. I guess there's a lot going on with the character both text and subtext and they're also is a. There are a lot of things in this movie. Like you mentioned spencer that art are conveyed without words. To the point of this film doesn't even need them they. It's all i mean. It is almost unimportant the dialogue not gonna say it doesn't need to be there but i understood this movie with or without it and that is a testament to alibaba guy and use of two joel rose performances that they could be that emotive and expressive without the need to have dialogue the use of detroit performances. This like the maybe seven or eight time. You've seen it. It's still terrifying like the moment you see him us now. It's him like you see. You see the the the scarf around his neck and you see like this president is like well. This guy has a dark past. And like i can't even explain how how i know that amelia dislike. Uc him and it's like less clearly. The guy who kill kill the teams dad and it's interesting to how they pace it for when we do meet him because a tim comes to the city and again universal kinda stuff. He's just about minding his own business. When these soldier slash cops come up and just harass him. Mr beating him and he saved by this guy moose. I believe and that kind of takes the story into the other world. And it's a tim meeting him being friends with him and mussa takes home and i'm thinking as mother's like why does bring people home and if i like you think that the movie is going to go in the other direction and then eventually attempts. Just like hey. I'm not happy with you. You're always stealing things and fencing these things and then the movie shifts after they have what almost like a break-up like their friendship dissolves and then it moves to another part of the story and then as soon as you see nasar you just like. Oh okay yep this is the guy. This is the guy that we have been looking for my favorite little detail of when he gets beep on cops and in the beginning is that you see the chads flag tree next to them in. So it's like this very not-so-subtle way of like abuse of power and like every time you see the the military it's always abusing people or chasing people or something along those lines. Something like a serbian film. While i know it is very controversial for a plethora of reasons. Sometimes being unsubtle is the best way to just confronted. You don't always have to do everything in the guy you know in some textual guys only know reuters. Who use subtext. And they're all cowards. You can be upfront with the message. And i think Haroon as a director is like you mentioned spencer interested and cares about confronting political powers in a country that is widely seemed to be one of the most corrupt countries on the planet and it has a terrible track record with cuban rights. And we all know that in a country like that there have to be people who don't like it and more than likely it's almost everybody who's not in power especially again. If you're filmmaker we saw with films like crumbs mccoy naima where they're talking about the way they're being treated by the government and kudos to them because man. You're making these movies in your questioning. A government that's knowingly corrupt in the craziest thing about that is haroon was the minister of culture for a brief time. He was in the president's cabinet. Got to see firsthand. Which like i imagine He kept hurrying around just for pr. It'd make him look like not like not dictator even though he won every election for thirty years. That's not suspicious at all ninety percent of the vote. Each time to i'm sure knowing dictator would give themselves one hundred percent but ninety eight percent. Now there's a margin of error that i believe we have ways of making vote for us or at least making you abstain. Ah tim is an interesting character. And i read the acting of him is fantastic. But once this hour on the screen you just like. Wow this guy. I want to know everything about this guy. And i'd like how they just kind of give you little drips and drabs of him. Like why's he wearing the scarf. Wisey got this electronic voice box at a uses. Why is he muslim now. i'd like the. There's a line about you know you can go to the mosque every single day. And it's not going to change anything but he's trying to be a better person. I'm trying real hard to be the shipping. You find his wife you find aicha who is a pregnant much much younger much more the age of a tim and she tells her story and i will. I was talking to chris a little bit earlier today. I was reading a review of this in kenneth hirose book trash and he was talking about a point when the sarah beats aicha. And i'm just like. I don't remember that at all. What the hell's going on and i was so glad that he actually pointed to the exact moment. It's when sarah is coming home. And i think this is like after. He's confronted the other bread truck. Who's been going around town blaring loudspeakers and is basically taking his business away. He comes home only define a tim and a gym at gene. Speaking and a. Tim is making fun of him. He's like even doing like the the thing with the voice box. And just like i bring me my shoes or whatever so right after that and i try not wearing her head covering. She's not wearing her carrying right. And then you see tim in the house much later on and you hear this noise in the noises. Her being beaten. But i didn't did not catch that. The first time and only caught it after i read about it and then had go back and verify like that was really their private three. Most disturbing moment of the whole thing is listening to it and you know you know. He has a dark past. He's violent bella. Gary time he's violent the next scene or so he's like you can tell he's remorseful and realize like he like he doesn't say it plus Like here regrets acting out. He regrets it. But you also feel like at least with a tim or hit or his wife. They have a meter and time he fucks up. The meter goes down a lot. He's he shows remorse and apologize as it may be goes back up a little bit but it will get to the bottom eventually because with someone like massara. It seems to be that it was escalating. Every time it happened and it was. I mean it gets worse. I mean it starts out pretty nothing towards the tim and then he starts you. Don't getting violent with him and grabbing him and around the neck and hitting him and stuff and it's like okay. I mean we like you said spencer. He has dark past. He has a very sorted pass with the things that he's done and it's clear that he is struggling with it. But those moments were. Ucf breakthrough are really terrifying when you get the reveal of isis saying like oh so try cut throat but but then work. It's like in so casual but when you think about it's like that's fucking scary. Few survive that. I think one point even says like. Hey listen i've had a bad past like don't it's not necessarily a threat it's not like don't cross me because i could fuck you up. It's i know that when bad things happen. I get out of control so key realizes that. He's a flawed human being and he is trying to make it better trying to make it better through faith. He is flawed to the core. And i don't think that whatever he can can get him out of that but then there are all these moments. We feel sympathetic towards the sky. Like win he collapses because he's got a bad back at tim who's just about ready to murder him like one of many times though he's like okay. This is it. I'm going to murder massara. Like oh shit. The soul band fell down now. I have to help them to chair and really like. I don't think i necessarily said this Earlier when sarah meets the. Tim meets this hour. Nizara takes shine tool and has just like. Oh let me help you out. Like gives him bread even though attempts spits it out. And then there's a nice echo of that scene later on when attempt forgets to put yeast in this bread and nasa spits out. Do you think the forgiveness was on purpose or an accident. I think it was on purpose. Because i was right. After that beating san i go back and forth every time watch. I'm not sure if that was just like him being a kid in forgetting or if it's genuinely like him trying to sabotage i mean he does seem sad about it so i wasn't really sure if he did it on purpose or not. I mean that's the first time i watched seen i was like. Oh yeah he did it on purpose. But then when i re watch it today i was like i don't know he does seem pretty sad that he screwed up the spread because the bread at some point becomes a point of pride for him. Yona sarah this man that he's sent there to kill eventually. I mean literally wants to adapt a tim. That's like how close they get that put so much of a you know as soon as he is nice to a tim. It's like wow. This complicates things a lot. I assume we all saw that coming right. And i love that like i knew where it was going and even though it still went there i still enjoyed. I still appreciate it what it did with it because again with what this movie is is talking about. It's it's it's so universal that sometimes films like this that are so universal. Don't have anything to say. They just you know they give us stuff but they don't have anything to say sometimes showing us something exciting interesting takes the place of saying having something to say. This movie really is kind of this discussion. Ponderings on what it. What does it mean to be. Someone's father versus apparent versus. I mean it looks like you mentioned mike a lot of a lot of questions of masculinity maybe gay subtext. I don't know in the next haroon movie. The he's not moving france. It's on youtube. Toront- sex. Okra halted butter about immigrant. Family that moves to him. Paris and one of the sons is gay and that is a plot point. Antenna lemme very Human fund way. Where the dad is not happy but everyone else is like whatever. He's gay what we still love him. I wanna say that a read that. It's not illegal to be gay in chad though it can be illegal in a lot of african countries to be a so. Yeah harrow when he was writing about in his book trash he was really well. I was going into hamlet and this whole idea of like having to get revenge. You know hamlet's father sets him on that path revenge and it's like okay is going to happen. How's it going to happen. Can you murder. Someone in cold blood is revenge. The whole thing about you know dig two graves right one for your victim and one for yourself but then he also gives it a reading where he's looking at gay subtext and i was like okay so i wasn't necessarily seeing a lot of it between a timasoara but i was seeing it more with him and mussa tim and mussa in the way that they fall out just felt like if illich lover's spat as what it felt like but i didn't necessarily see it as as much as i think herro saw it. That part that he's talking about really is like the first ten minutes of movie which speaks to partially why that's there. I don't know i mean again. That beginning part of the film does seem not at odds with everything else but it seems to be set less important than anything else. It's just it's a part of the rising action. It's not you know it's not super important. We're talking about house. Universal like i would like to see. This type of story applied to like the american civil war or vietnam or like owner like bosnia in nineties. Like this is such a flexible idea. That i i want to see like other cultures. Take on what would be. I'm honestly surprised. We haven't seen something like this. I mean we've seen things similar but to your point. Spencer like giving it that like giving it maybe like a colt cultural spin to to it. I think would be also interesting. Because i mean. This movie is again playing in the sandbox. In the world of chad. If you were in the united states like you mentioned you have a lot more options. I think that would be pretty interesting. I mean the performances are what carry this movie. Obviously and if you got the right actors in the right roles look they did it with this. They i mean you know the two leads in this film knocked it out of the park. I would be hard pressed to believe you would not be able to do that in western cinema with just as good actors and really have something sp- something as special as this film as when this whole thing of being born again. You know like the way that nasa's trying to be a muslim and i noticed that after his wife loses the baby which was a very unexpected moment for me that did take me by surprise but cut the him drinking alcohol on the hood of his car. And i'm just like oh that is major. You do not do that in islam. So is just like again. He falls and falls hard and it's like he's trying to be a good muslim but boom as soon as that happened see becomes the bad muslim and drinks alcohol and one of the things i love about this movie mixie question. Can you feel sympathy for a war criminal who probably raped and murdered hundreds of people. I think it's hinting at lake. Maybe the eighty s when the dictator hocine. A hobby was power. There's something about some about that. Disarm details if he think he's referencing that and he might have been like one of the torturers under under front regime and the The dictator in eighties. He was a part of the civil war when leaders of the of this of orna sixties. And so like. He was surprised like it was going to happen. He's going to try again. Her roommate documentary about the court cases trying to get take him down and took like seven court cases to finally nail him. The documentary is on Ovid in it's heroin because there's some descriptions of the torture but think it needs to be seen to so people can know about this part of history and fun fact the. Us helped helped her. Hungary come to power. Oh no what a surprise. We got involved in other countries elections. What no way. We helped a dictator come to power years later. Took them down because then they didn't do what we wanted. What no night would never believe such thing would happen. Contemporary history spence was obviously lying. Yeah yeah i would never. I would never slander reagan. God knows he doesn't deserve it or anything yet is interesting with haroon because looking at his filmography. It's like yes. He's directed a good number of features but he's done a lot of shorts a lot of tv movies into your point. A lot of documentaries so he definitely dips in and out of different areas. Not all just feature narrative work that he's doing which i appreciate that he can go in all of these different directions. Yeah he He moved to france was in his twenties. He he moved out as a dictator has taken over He's lucky enough to get to escape. And he became the journalists. For a while which i think is part of why he gets politics so well it was able to like talk about politics in a way. That isn't To to me never feels preachy. Just feels like you know giving you the fact they need to know and putting people in situations even though this is set against the backdrop of civil war and these prior crimes. I don't feel like he's hitting us over the head. Yes there is that you know the the chad flag with these police slash soldier characters. But again. I don't think it was too heavy handed. One of the things that i'm most surprised about in the film is not necessarily what they did but what. They didn't do which. I really appreciated so like setting up that mussa character so i was just like. Oh he's gotta come back but then surprisingly he doesn't end it ends up being the soldiers that end up coming back in the soldier in the story. And when i tim beat the shit out of the one soldier i was like oh. I didn't see that coming neither. Did the soldier obviously who just got cold cocked with a board or whatever he hits them with and then i didn't expect a to take our attempt to take the gun and there's that weird moment on the bridge. The talk about that chris disease. She does us a soldier. Five and i believe looking at the scene. He does put the gun out the direction that guy passed him and he shoots you. Don't hear noises or anything. I was curious what y'all's interpretation of that scene was because that's the one of the scenes that really stuck with me. Because i know i know as should the three of us know it. Has it saying something. I'm not sure what it is saying. But i'm curious what y'all maybe your interpretations of that scene where i've always seen it as will align earlier were nasa says. I was like you when When i was younger and that is A team giving end to the anger into rage in him acting now unseen like if that's what he wants to do it may be a traveler on for like when he tries it when he tries to kill nasiriyah which. I'm curious Do you did you guys think he's actually capable of killing him. I think at the beginning when he first meets him. That would have been the moment. I think he could have even though he doesn't and there's that moment pretty early in the film when he holds us arm out and holds the gun out and he's pointing the gun at nizara and then he closes his eyes and looks away and then by the time he opens his eyes and looks back into cyrus. Gone if feels like that was even though. There's a few more times where i think he points a gun at At least there's definitely one point where he points a gun at himself in a mirror. But i think if he was going to kill massara that would have been a moment and i think after that. It's no he can't do this. He tries to to get to the moment where he would have been able to kill the sahra realistically by the time he got to that moment he couldn't do it anymore right. 'cause i mean though i mean a- tim is not emotionally prepared to kill massara at the beginning of the film but by the end of the film he is you see in that final scene. He makes that decision of his own volition. At the beginning of the film he is not prepared. Emotionally to kill him. There's no way. I mean this is fifteen minutes into an hour and a half film. Was others others. That weird kind of cognitive dissonance up by the time. You're ready to make the decision. You kind of have had the decision made for you. You know that's kind of the kind of the irony of the movie. Right is by the time you're ready to kill him. You can't even do it but like you said mike. The moment he had the best theoretical option would have just been walk up to him and his on the street. Shoot him and just walk away. And don't worry yourself with that but again he is not the kind of character or the kind of human being the way. He's written where he would have been able to do that and sleep with himself at night even though it was his own dead. I wanted to go back to that scene on the bridge because looking at the soldier that passes him is definitely not one of the soldiers that beat him earlier because the soldier that passes him is a victim of the war. Looks like he only has one leg and then the way that he handles. The director handles the pointing the gun. So when a temples at the gun he actually puts it at us. First and then there's a cut and then he's pointing it the opposite way of the soldier so it's really strange. It's like okay. We'll which cause the soldiers going screen laughed. And then after a tim points the gun at us. He is pointing screen right. So it's like okay. Did the image flip. Or what's going on with this. But yeah i definitely shoot see. See the arm jump. You hear the the sound of the bullet but you don't hear anyone scream or anything like that so it. It feels like like rage. He's just letting outrage dispensers point there is part of that thing that nizara says about you know i was like you. It's like you know. And i think it's you know it is kind of indicative that i genuinely believed that. We are all capable of immense acts of violence regardless of who you are and that's something important to comment on because again you have a character who is. He is the naive. He is the pure soul of the film. A tim is because that's the way his character said do think His family knew nostra because His dad was clearly military. 'cause he has jacket and the gun and then the way that the grandfather says. Do you remember me. do you know who i am. The heave and says. I want you to be humiliated the way my son was humiliated. And then he has the sarah removes close as like okay. So there's a lot of stuff that we don't know about the situation. I didn't even think about that. Seen a lot so like some some stuff is really starting to see other other points of view but one thing that i'm curious here guys take after one. Viewing is Do you think I was a gift for nostra. Kind of speaks to as much right not inflict thinly veiled terms. Yeah 'cause she said she had no choice. What it could have been as much as like an arranged marriage kind of thing or sorry to go back to Fiddler on the roof but like the whole thing like lahser wolf wanting to marry one of tabs daughters and it's just like okay. You know that was the way that you did it. The older man wants the younger woman. There is no better match for the younger woman usually. It's like okay. Does this guy have a really good job kind of thing. Can he provide for the daughter. Yeah okay good jones's own bakery so go ahead and give over the daughter to this guy so i could see it either way either as being an arranged marriage or this being kind of a gift to this former warlord slash soldier but either way i would think we would all agree it was against her will because she says much and that could even speak to may be because she is wearing the headscarf. You know maybe it's like the muslim thing that's going on. I'm not sure you know or could just be something that is happening in chad. I don't know and that's not me besmirching islam at all. That's just like okay. This could be a thing. So i know in like some indian places. It's still very common to have arranged marriages. So i have a friend who is muslim from pakistan and he got into an arranged. He was arranged. Married in. this happened two years ago. So this is still like i mean again. I don't think people don't think it's a thing. But i i think something kind of what you're speaking to my guess for westerners are exposure to it even though we have neighbors friends politicians. Everybody else who are from asian subcontinent. It is still not something that we are really exposed to in western culture. We're just not so there's a lot of like oh that's weird it's like no it's not weird it's just different the determine. I think that could be used. Now without. Offense is probably. It's a little antiquated. It's a little bit of antiquated. It's it's to me. It's kind of in the way western cultures like you go and ask parents for their child hand in marriage like that. Is that same kind of like very old antiquated. Not not something. That has a place in society in some respects. But people still do it. I mean it is what it is. It's not illegal so hopefully she was on the child bride so she looked. Yeah that's the other thing especially again third world country corrupt country person like massara involved. You could draw some conclusions if you really wanted to to bring up some modern history. That's becoming more. He'll across the continent Child brides it's not you know continent wide. Yep is still becoming more of a normalized thing to outlaw. That yeah it's just the age thing is the one that gets me as far as like that in the lack of choice but you know especially the have a decision made for you and to have that decision made for you before you're even anywhere near the age of maturity and obviously he's been having sex with her since she's got a big old belly and ready to give birth and that's a great signifier visuals signifier of our times past when they lose the baby then the idea of them adopting a tim becomes even more crucial thing where it's just like. Hey i want which is really strange when he says i want to adopt you but i i need to get your parents permission. That's really strange that you had adopt somebody that already has parents. Even though i think attempts name means orphan or at least that's the call him orphan. Okay so it's more like a tim. The orphan rather than tim means orphan. With my understanding. Okay that that would make a lot more sense because it'd be like hey orphan i wanna meet your parents with just seems like a really rude thing to say. I also find it interesting that the grandfather is blind and i don't know if the blindness came about because of war how long he's been blind but then when you're at the end of the film and you've got the sarah on one side of the screen who can't speak in his own voice anymore and then you've got the grandfather on the other side of the screen who can't see and then you've gotta tim in the middle with the gun and you're just like okay. What's going to happen here. But just having those cigna fires of the main who can't see versus the main who can't talk okay. This is a very interesting situation. Makes like have like a mythical structure to it homos and they and they make bread which is the universal food around every every culture and so has this lake epoch universal feeling to it i wonder what the blindness the muteness are meant to signify. I wonder what the director is kind of commenting on. I can kind of make my own conclusions as ensure y'all could the climax of this film the final final two two minutes of this film. Just they hit really hard there. I mean it is. You can tell the decision. And how impact will. It is the one that tim is making now. I don't believe for a moment that he was gonna turn the gun on his grandfather but a essentially killed his grandfather in a way because he while he gave wise grandfather Believing li got the satisfaction of nizara. Dying that is not the reality and while perception in reality as we all well know too well can now become one in the same in this movie. The audience knows that survives which the whole reason that his grandfather probably is alive is being kept alive by hatred for this man who killed his son a friend of mine. Marin kessler who was on when a check episode see Decide which star wars amp rob some interesting parallels to the virtual hillary with this with the giving the giving of sun his father's weapon like the lightsaber and then like darth vader with Nostra the voice thing and the emperor if forcing and the emperor with the blind grandfather like that like you know star wars. You know hero's journey. I can tell you guys at twenty minutes or thirty minutes ago. We started this podcast. If you had told me that that was going to be the comparison that would have been made. I would've told you you were fucking with me but it works. It works really well and again like you said spencer. It speaks to the universal themes because joseph cambell hero's journey lucas drew from the most obvious of obvious text to be influenced by the story writing bible essentially at least for for the traditional eros journey. You said that attend gets his father's weapon and then eventually loses it or it's taken and then he goes in and there's that huge closet full of guns that nizara has and again it's like. Hey can you help me out. My weight belt is in there and a-. Tim opens up the door. And there's just guns galore inside there but the gun he ends up with. I think he ends up with the cops gun. He steals that gun from the From the soldier even his. He's lost his father's gun. So it's kinda like when luke losses lightsaber in cloud city. But then somehow that little orange thing from one of the sequels found it and there was supposed to be like a whole story. I would imagine with that supposedly did they. Did they try that. Whole exquisite corpse lay of writing. The sequel trilogy glared you know what they say when a film from chad outclasses million dollar production you really have your priorities unchecked and not in the right order. This is a very classy film. Though i mean it did it one. What in venice. I think and i can see this. Just taken tons of awards. If it didn't it didn't it should have because like i said at the beginning it is really moving and really powerful. Not what i expected going into it at all like not that i expected you were going to set me up with a bad film. But i didn't expect to be as taken with this movie as i was and usually something that's quieter like this and more contemplative. It's just like okay cool. But my mind's might start to wander. Something might start thinking about like what i need to do the next day. Those kinds of things this movie. I was locked in from the beginning. I was just like wow okay. I'm here for this movie and it really left an impact. I didn't think it was going to have that much of an emotional impact. And thank you for bringing this to my attention to me is a perfect film. Not to be pretentious. Positionally send me is like this is the perfect mix of visual audio editing. Like the nails. Exactly what what's trying to get across perfectly and there is that sense of Kind of like you know. You know rebel. Filmmaking in a way like you know this is a film being made about a government in the country that you're critiquing. I mean that is pretty. I mean there's a ballsy To that that. I really appreciate because again. We live in a country where we're afforded a lot of freedoms and things that a lot of people take for granted and when you live in a country like chad where it's again widely considered to be one of the most corrupt countries on the planet as like when the top ten at least right. Yes usually top. Ten lake worse for women worse for people were for poverty like it's consistently low ranked compared to other countries one of the poorest. So there's also that so being able to create a film like this like you mentioned spencer that is almost a perfect distillation of what films should be and doing that in a country. Where you're probably putting probably you are putting yourself on the line by doing that. I mean again. It just speaks volumes to the transformative and important nature of cinema and entertainment but cinema specifically. Because that's you know subjection. Do you guys know about how to film it now So after a day of shooting they Haroon had to ship it to france because there are no no nearby processing places for film and so they would have to wait a couple of days. So don't wanna get shipped back. You know if they were good then they continue filming and so it was kind of a long tedious process of this making sure like it's actually usable footage and a little fun fact about chad. There's one movie theater. The whole country lowered so just tie this a little bit to last week's film to keep buki That film was directed by israel. Diop ma'am betty and ma'am betty's brother. Is wasp diop and wassim. Diop is the one who did the score for durant which. I didn't even realize going into it until i saw name show up on screen and i was like i know that name. Oh yeah. I just saw an interview with him about his brother's film to keep kooky so talk about a small world and they're obviously not even in the same countries. Deep app does a song for every haroon with things every single one. And there's been betty documentary where haroon shows up. I've been looking for doc me for a while. I cannot find it anywhere it. We're talking last week about colonialism and that was very very apparent when it comes to something like to keep hokey where they are really speaking to the love of america british culture of french culture. And the one thing. I didn't say last week. That i wanted to say and i will say it again this week because it also makes senses. Colonialism may go away as far as you know. France might not be occupying chad. But like i said before this movies in french you know there is arabic in here but this is a french movie so even if the colonizer isn't there people's minds are still colonized like french is the language that they're speaking. They haven't gone back to whatever language speaking before. The french came in so the rick and french bread. You know it's it's it's everywhere. Africa is the way that it is as a continent because of colonialism. Add like you said mike. It may not be there anymore but it will never not be there because that's why africa as a continent is in many ways the way that it is. It's unfortunate. i mean it's a fucking shame but let's not mince words here. It's it's awful into repeat last week. It's still being colonized by china. The new ones moon right in but the documentary is called ambati forever. it's a tv documentary that i guess was Made is made a cameron france in. I've been looking for a while for them. I cannot find anywhere. I'll see if i can uncover it but maybe one of our faithful listeners will find somebody forever and share it with us so that would be nice earlier. Chris you're talking about the feel of the movie going from like this young kid go to city hang a friend that switches organically like the main plot and like the whole theme of work and all that and like this. The editor is marie elaine. Dozo and chief editor on at least a couple dardenne brother movies and select Much refused see are dead movies. But it's had a similar type of feel and pacing were kinda like It takes it's time to you know to to get the runtime. It's not rushing not going slow to nath Particular pace well. what's nice about. It is again like you mentioned. This film is how long hour and a half and it doesn't even feel an hour and a half it. It feels like an hour. I mean it just goes. it's it. There are quiet moments obviously and plenty of them but A lot of this movie is just very much like driving action and like things just happening. You have these moments of nisar. And a tim in the bakery or doing those things but then you have moments where it's just things just happening and then then what we're just at the climax of the film. The climax came very quickly. I was surprised at it just happened. And that was that and then they go and it's like this was a fast. Lean little movie that just absolutely knocks it out of apart each scene builds upon the next upon the next which is nice like even today when i was going back and rea watching and then i was like no i really. I got a spot. Check that whole thing about him beating a chain. I was just like okay. We'll wears this at in the narrative and i was like okay well. was towards the beginning of their relationship and they can kind of chart their relationship. I was just like fast forwarding and then stopping and then fast forward a little bit more and you can just see that relationship build from scene to scene to scene the way that it ebbs and flows to because it's not just all happy days like oh cool. Sarah my father's killer. Let's be friends. There's a lot of stuff that takes place and a lot of ebbs and flows ups and downs as we go through this. So there's like. I am starting to like you know you failed your an awful person. Maybe i'm starting to like you know you're really awful person so it's like you were saying chrissy keeps sliding backsliding into the naissaar that would have been the beating aside. He's a monster at any point. But you know he is definitely not the. Let's say peaceful inner peaceful Holy muslim is baking bread. And giving it out to orphans and street children all the time though. He is trying to be that man and he's trying real hard. I guess the question that ultimately arises from all of this is can you undo the bad cosmic karma that you have put out into the world. Is there any amount i mean. That's the question that we ask right. That is the question is can you undo however many years in lives worth of bad karma that you have put out into the world and i guess massara does just enough. At least a tim's mind. I mean a tim's grandfather would not have think so even if told that the way that this man lives and what this man does his grandfather would still say do what needs to be done and put them in the ground. But i that is the question. The answer is a paired from the main characters. Mind but we are left to question if he made the right decision. And what decision would we make in his position. I always wonder this movie like Well what's next. What happens to a tim after this and also under like have there been other kids like that who have hunted down nostra because the given you know. The way he's talked about disgusted feels lake. There has be other other families looking for revenge right. It can't just be him interesting. That's actually a really interesting point. I mean imagine just other movie of i mean how many times business hour evade being you know how much. How many times does he do enough before. Someone does just come and do what needs to be done at least in their mind again. This is punishment fitting the crime crime fitting. The punishment is a question that only you yourself can answer. I can't answer it for you. So i have my own feelings on the ending of this movie as i'm sure we all do because again we're all coming from it from a different perspective and point of view but that know that's an interesting question because the question that i have is what is nasser. Do after the movie does he just unleash on him and kill him because he tried to kill him. I mean i don't know what. What is i mean again. It goes down to what you believe. The moment that nassir has at the end of the film. What is that moment. Mean to his character being able to say he didn't kill me for whatever reason. Is that the transformative moment where all of it stops for him or does he take that moment and turn it into the moment where he turns you know one eighty again goes back to his old ways. I would like to think that nassar looks at this as a second chance or like a second second chance and says okay. I really need to do the. There are those moments where. I'm not the good man that i want to be. But this is going to push him to be even better. That's what i would hope but to your point as far as like we all have opinions. As far as like should nizara be punished. Should he have not been punished. I'm glad we didn't start off this. Podcast like a bunch of jokers just like oh what the fuck man to. Sarah should be dead meat. This is not just like but yeah. I've got my opinions and i don't really even wanna share. I'm just like okay. yeah. I'm fine with this. The questions that this movie is asking are too personal to be answering on a podcast. And now. Because i don't want to. And i'm sure mike you and i and spencer could have a lovely delightful conversation privately about our feelings on this and we very well may when this is over. I don't know who knows i. It's not my cart or interest to push that but a movie to ask these kinds of questions for me is an important movie regardless of who makes it regardless of the language that it's in and regardless of where it came from if it's asking a question like this is the movie that people should be watching period price love that it makes you really think like can you sympathize with a war criminal. I still don't really know. I don't know if i can give a clear. Answer that all right. We're going to take a break and play an interview with author. Kenneth harrow about several of the films that we're talking about this month. And we'll be back with that right. After these brief messages this episode of the projection booth is brought to you by story. Blocks story block helps you. Create more professional video faster than ever while paying less for unlimited downloads from an unlimited library. 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We went to africa twice but in seventies but the what ruby into african cinema was when we went to cameroon. In nineteen seventy seven spent two years there. Cameroon was producing pretty great films. Initiating young filmmakers initiating really. Cameroon cameroonian cinema and they were french cultural centers that were of true african film. So that's what i. I really was introduced. I would say to african cinnamon. That i enjoyed it Good deal so that was my start. I remember during the that first series of films at the cultural center show. Jibril jobs took buki. That would probably around seventy eight to fillon came out. I think you'd seventy four. But in any event it was a strange experience because They didn't have subtitles and so took buki with mostly mostly. We were in cameroon where they do not speak and the film is also a strain trump. It's hard enough to be entirely sure what's happening when you've got i logged but without it. People were scratching their heads wondering it was kinda crazy introduction to african people there so that was one. I know that was one of the first feels that we saw during that that period. And how did you go about dedicating so much time and energy to talking about and writing about african films. At that time. I was that a fill a year in eighty two to eighty three naira african literature but senegal as you probably know is is probably the first country in africa that really developed an important film film industry i guess or film component and similarly spun is credited with being One of the founders. So i went. I went to a seven films. Actually got to meet him because doing Barriers between ordinary folk in the african film studio where he was out where he was situated downtown so i. I got interested in in african film at that time but my focus in research was primarily in literature. It took me probably twenty years before. I developed the ability to do more with film and have to say that it michigan. You have to understand. At that time there was no film program at michigan state. They would know film program in most universities in the country and talking about the nineteen seventies in one thousand nine hundred eighty s i never when we initiated the first film courses on campus said msu nevermind film program. Just courses individual courses which i with my friends Bill vincent on there were a few other people but most people were interested in film is just an additional side to people who also did literature. That was true for film. Studies throughout the country became an off shoot of literature literature departments until the offshoot actually became bigger than the thing that it was linked to initially so by the light. I'd say i'm not sure exactly. But certainly by by the nineteen nineties. I began to devote my time much more to film than literature. I did both for for many years but gradually shifted to african cinema as the main focus of my research that was in one thousand. Nine hundred are there countries that are more represented by having a film industry than other countries. And is there any sort of tie with those with the films that i've been watching. This month are very heavy when it comes to french and being former french colonies. I was curious if maybe the french influence helps that film industry. Or what your experiences with. Where the film centers in africa are well. If you wanna make a movie you need money and you need training. Were essentially board from working in cinema accepted in the most subsidiary lowest levels during the colonial period that ended in nineteen sixty after the after independence in the nineteen sixties The french wants to maintain ties with their former colonies and so they had very very close important ties with culture and they subsidized it. It took a while really was the nineteen sixties and knee share and senegal with first countries. Where you saw film developing not county south africa. I don't. I don't really pay a hell of a lot of attention to south africa nearly years because it was a white cinema. It didn't really have the attributes of african culture and civilization that i was interested in black people. Involvement in cinema in south africa was minimal But it was there. But i didn't. I didn't study so i studied sub saharan african film. I'm not gonna account north african. that's in additional com complexity to the story. But you're right in thinking that. The french were tremendously significant. And so there's a group of countries in what's called the suhel from senegal mali in burkina burkina-fasso in it which formed a group and the next to them his knees year which became a separate center for production film so they financed it and they it became possible with tremendous difficulty for for francophone africans to learn how to make films the french at that early point. We're not really training filmmakers but the russians during the cold war were interested and so a good number of the great early african filmmakers studying in moscow that they got grant money that enable them scholarships to go and study in moscow at meant. They had learned russian. They stayed there for a year or two years and some of the early great people do that. there was a bit of working with the french. But it wasn't until probably the. I'd say the seventy eighties that the french began to actually subsidised africans to learn how to make fills the other part which is written important too much details. But but this is significant. I said you have to have money to make a film so the question is i. Where do you get the money. It was not a commercial enterprise for the first couple of decades. So you needed grid foundations or national support. The it was some national support from african countries and not very much. It wasn't enough money for it. But the french were interested in doing that. And that may not only subsidizing the fund for making the film but more importantly in a sense for post production post production cinema means. You take the stuff you shot and you have a negative to who works on it. Montage or editing. That took place in paris under the tutelage of a woman called andre if she was a brilliant wonderful women who worked with all the african filmmakers I know there's been criticisms of the french framing this for french interest or audience. But the truth was that it was the directors who really had the control. I would argue. They had the control over. What films were doing. And the and that launcher really Respected the integrity of the lakers but the post production was done in parish. Some years later they began to expand and were able to do a bit of avian morocco and so on but it was a francophone enterprise That's what you're you learn to read about that completely truth. And that made in the sixties when it just began and in seventy eight thirty years there. As african film began to grow it was in the region of the suhel that i mentioned after that chain enormously significant. What happened And you need to know a little bit about it. Filmmaking is expensive it's because you're working on celluloid and the cameras and the and the processing of the film showing of the film at cliff money not just to make it but to maintain the cameras that show the films. And all that of course had to be subsidized showing of films in african was controlled by distributors. They mostly wanted hollywood films. Blockbuster films of kung fu films and things are that sort not african films. They didn't work to develop an audience in africa and so during those decades there was a an elite group of african people who could see these films but they were available increasingly easily for people like me. I taught it mitch. Eight california newsreel distributed the films. We all learned about them we stay. He studied them and saw them in conferences. But the distribution africa Was weak and they reason was at the films were not essentially popular commercial films. They were wonderful. They were brilliant but they were not cheap and easy commercial popular films. Which is what the distributors wanted that changed along with filmmaking around the whole world win in that great revolution towards a video film making in the nineteen eighties that changed enormously and again. It's a big story but the gist of it is for celluloid. You had to start putting in tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to make blockbusters but if you could make video camera you could make filled for cheap. And so there were two tiers filmmaking around the world that developed in the nineteen eighties. The one was the the studios. That was struggling to survive and did blockbusters on lloyd and then video film video video film stories. A bit complicated for some. It was porno for some louis religious films but for others interested in the local culture. They can make films on video so they were called video films. In african they began the late nineteen eighties in ghana and nigeria. That was a revolution and notice. Ghana nigeria not francophone countries anglophone countries. They were local. They were not subsidized by the mother country by the metropol. They were not even nationally subsidized and they were aiming at popular local audience. Which you could do by using local languages but also making stories that were filled with the imagination of people at home while it grew big in nigeria. It began late eighties in ghana. Nigeria very quickly picked it up. And in the nineteen ninety s there was a revolution and that revolution was the creation the explosion of a of a video of a film industry where there had been that an industry. That's just the culture but an industry that developed in nigeria and that became the model that became the model for filmmaking industries throughout the continent. The name for that film industry was not nigeria filmmaking but nali would bollywood and it had the same principles of bollywood like hollywood which is to make entertainment not educational films were uplifting firms. What have you but entertainment phil and dependent upon she. Production video gave way to dvd's and that digital revolution completed the trend the transition from a celluloid kind of elite quality form of filmmaking to one that became cheap dirty quick easy something that people made out of their garages just grabbed a few people this long they had a camera to make. Dvd's shoot dvd's they would try it. And i the films were extremely uneven. Core quality production post production was like zero quality It took probably fifteen years so we get to two thousand with things began to sort out and this is astonishing the same way you imagine how hollywood grew into an industry. How bollywood grew the same thing happened in nigeria and there was a point even to the point today where they were making between one and two thousand films a year early the most in the world and those films not you know. They weren't all successful. They were being pirated all the time. It was a wild with crazy period but it got sorted out eventually Movie stars became popular movie. Directors like kalani. Nfl lion came to be known not just at home but abroad. Now you go to net flicks. You'll find ally in films. And so what started in. In the way. I describe just as a commercial enterprise developed into a true absolute film industry. Your question was does this take place. Everywhere in the content of the answer is note that it's exactly the way you described it that there are some countries where we have a real true film history and film culture where you have actors in glare who become professionalized and most of all the production the shooting all this becomes no longer dependent upon european or foreign outsiders to do it but people who are trained at home and that's not everywhere but it's growing in various countries can used a good example where we see it happening now where that didn't exist. Twenty thirty years ago was no such thing. As kenyan trump and now it exists and other countries are trying to emulate. That people wanna make movies maybe everywhere they can't always but that's the the model which was provided by nali. Would we're going a little out of order this month. We started with turkey. And then we jumped to the mid two thousand ten's with durant and then we're moving back to con- and then we're wrapping up with. I am not a witch. I was curious. I some of your experiences with some of those films. I i know that you had mentioned to keep kooky already of course. I'm sure that you've seen it with subtitles since then because it is such a glorious film. I've written about all those films. I'm not a witch. I saw a couple of years ago. And that's kind of fuzzy. In my head i remember i liked it but i don't remember the details at all about the film. Let me do them a little bit in in order here turkey buki came out. I believe in seventy four. And the following year kala excel a came out by seven respond. middle nineteen seventies really too. Formidable major filmmakers totally different touki-bouki was much more aesthetically Adventuresome a little bit crazy. I thought that go da had an influence. There may have been others but it was a film that really rude in the direction of experimental cinema and was brilliant. I think that the the last long Unbroken montage shot at the end of taku buki. One of the great moments of all cinema kala was a film. A perfect film for neo-colonialism that is it's a complaint against the corruption of the new government and its indebtedness to the french neo colonial power so it was the most political powerful film you can imagine condemning the senegalese government for its corruption And it's indebted to the french government. Tuckey buki was more about the spirit of young people seeking to find their their way in a world of new where the possibilities were difficult. Close were were for where it was. Struggle of young people That kind of iraq represent the next generation cookie bouquets seventies. so when we get to the con- in a in the ninety s. We have a breakthrough. That's not a film. I paid much attention to but since you referenced it. I was able to watch it and i have to tell you much intrigued by now. I'll buy what that film is doing. He was meeting guinea a country which had been under a dictatorship of secretary in the years following independence. It was that it was a country which was really renowned for its music for its Wonderful singers the grows and for dance but not not a whole lot of film came out of at of guinea so this was a film that broke. It broke the codes and it did summit in some ways that i thought were extraordinarily genius. Well first of all your audience has to know that. Well in the united states gay politics queer politics. The trades politics by politics are part of our culture and we all realize that we went through a huge struggle in this country But some people aren't old enough to know. But i am old enough to know 'cause i i was born in the forties that We had the term in the 'cause it for those early years because people were afraid to come out and would have been punished or suffered economically and socially if they came out as being gay or queer or lesbian have you and then there was a fight they would like to civil rights. Struggle that struggle with the long ones and cut to the chase finally during as recently took as long as until we get to the obama years before finally the notion of something as radical as a gay people marrying became possible and and Adopting a child became possible and so in other words the normalization courtesy of being gay in our country took all those years in africa was different. It was not common people who are gay Were in some instances in the closet but it was deep closet. I have to say that when we were in yound in the nineteen seventies. We had a a frenchman. Who was tutoring us in french. And he was gay and he. He told us that they were nightclubs. Nine places that clubs navy but places where he would gather with gay friends who are african but they could not come out if they were gay and came out now all these years later we're talking. Almost forty. five years later in cameroon. They would be. They would be persecuted navy put in prison. That's happening still. Africa is divided between a small number of countries in which gay rights The struggle for gay rights is advancing slowly in other countries where people are still quiet in many countries where they would get wacked badly Were they to come out so under those could understand so under those conditions making a movie about people who are gay nowadays is political. It's not pure and it's not just entertainment. It's a political which you want to call it part of a struggle to advance a cause in very few films. The latest one. That i know made about three years ago i think in kenya call rafiki by When oregon hugh is a film that was opened in khan and condemned in ghana. They try to shut it down but when there was such an international outcry. They gave her permission to show it for a week in kenya. It's a big movie. we all know it. Anyone in african filmography. It's about two girls who develop You know a love relationship. It's beautiful film. There is successful but it sure as hell is a we wouldn't say an entertainment film as such trade. It's a film that trying to argue in favour so that khan was ahead of its times. I don't know how that guy did it. He made this film at first without the government knowing what he was doing and then when they found out they withdrew support but he succeeded. I think because in the nineteen ninety the french were perfectly cool with with With gay relationships It was there in african culture. Not just in a people social relations but in literature is well. I remember bound to violence was a A novel that came out early out of much. Sure the years the seventies. I think yeah i think it was the seventies and at one a huge prize in france Gongora thing in one huge prize at part of it did involve a gay relationship. They will gauge. Who were mocked in In in turkey bookie. There's a scene where a gay character named charlie's made fun of. Gayness was condemned screw the continent as being having been introduced by foreigners especially westerners french it was it was described as a form of corruption of african norms. And so on. And that argument is still used. But i have to say i believe that. The titus shifting slowly and it's really because african people who want to Have courage to stand up for do it if they if they didn't do things would not change but they are and so that's the con. It was a movie that with filmmaker had courage He persisted despite. Ultimately the government being opposed. The film was a huge popular success but breaking new broke new ground and it took a while. I told you about nali. Would i remember at least one film called jesse bill in hollywood films. Where the. Bobby watson the the spirit queen recruits a women to be a lesbian relationship so if you can get the lesbian relationship in but it's got to be an evil spirit or something which is an immediate. But it's represented on the screen and that it's not center to the point where you can't see it on the screen up. It becomes part of some of the dangers and probably the dangerous. A modern life or of western influences et get very complicated because in senegal there was a figure called the amfar man woman who is a popular entertainer in salary and that figure was a man who dressed up as a woman and we. We found the figures like the comet at times when we lived in senegal. So there's a kind of can and yet senegal is a country which is very very cautious about admitting The possibilities of of of gay people Having rates the kind also broke run other code thought which extraordinary which is at it shows off. The i don't remember having seen elsewhere in a african film. And goes with breaking the prohibitions on gay relations which is that one of the characters of develops won. The gay characters develop a relationship with a white woman but the white woman. When you first see her name is new. She sells cloth in the market. She's speaking the language local language as well as french with people in conakry. And you wonder any i is. She's supposed to be an african woman but happened turnout white in some weird way and then there's a little mentioned in the film. Oh well her mother died and she was raised with african women and so that whole business about the children who may be have a race identity which is unclear which was a popular theme in in africa because there are a lot of intermarriage between black and white people. The children will get lighter or darker and the children revealed the sexual relation of the parents. So in this in this film we have this character who becomes a love interest of with one of the gay characters. I thought that was kind of amazing. And furthermore at one point she's attempting to seduce demand with whom she has relationship into. Let's say a heterosexual erotic roddick relation and the film is very daring in the eroticism of of that scene where we have their love seeing represented in africa. In all the years that i've been there is been censorship. Censorship turned more are prohibiting political. Opposition from getting a voice. If there's a little bit of sex or some kind of sexy comment that would be okay. Nudity was not really a problem in in the films. Politics were but now the line between politics. Enga- politics lesbian. Politics is deadline. You understate is change shifted or they all become political in their way. Okay sure that we got them all but we we didn't get to the film that Emotionally with actually which is Durant i really enjoyed your thoughts on wrought especially Just the way that you picked up on. We were talking about gay teens. Into con- you kind of talk about that with derive and then also the whole idea of comparing it to hamlet. Thought was brilliant. When thank you what. Wendy major themes in african literature and then a cinema has been patriarchy and from the beginning until the struggle against patriarchy. Initially even before independence was linked to the struggle against colonialism. And that's because the figure. The figures white people power in africa in france. You say commend off. The words just sounds like commander said actual tidal given to the common ratio. That's owen. Who would who would be appointed by the colonial power. To control the region above the down would be the governor. So these these figures were patriarchal. I mean unbelievably powerful page oracle figures and the greed. Struggle that africa people had. I would say going back to the early literature. The nineteen fifties was that the authority of the father figure or the authority even of the african rule either local emirs or teams were printed. Whatever they were their authority was supplanted by the european colonials so the african father became subordinate to the white father to the colonial father Until we had a double father and the revolt of the sun against the father. Let's say in the conventional edible situations a patriarchy then became split became complicated. How is the son to determine his own independence and individuality in relationship to a father when his own father was subordinate to to a either away missionary priest which even complicated story even more or to the the white rulers so we have a substitution for this kind of situation when we have independence with independence. Now the white colonial rulers have been replaced and they replaced by african governance but the african governments after ten years became a struggle for power increasingly by military figures or by dictators. It were very few african states. That escaped from that situation Some escape with one party rule as in senegal briefly. But that was the the exception. Chad is a country. That was troubled by dictatorial rule down until the state in fact the latest ruler debut who is in power. When this film was made he he was they was just assassinated and replaced by by his his son. So here we have a film which in which we have of struggle between a What's your name abry and then followed by debut. The current ruler the one over through the other and in the film the support of the previous Dictator many were killed. And it's a story about a young boy whose father was killed during this period. And whose grandfather said you go out and revenge take take revenge for your father who was killed because the government is giving amnesty to all those people and we will never get revenge for the death of your father is father in hamlet. Hamlet's father ghost who tells the son that he must take revenge but he must take revenge against claudius who's married his mother in other words taking the father's place he must take revenge against the stand in for his father and when the drama of of hamlet is white is hamlet hamlet unable to act. Why can't they kill. Claudius he says at one point. He's got the knife in his andy standing recording of claudia. Sleeping he says now. I might do that. He can't and he thinks he and his thoughts wind why wind he said. I can't do it now. if i do he'll go to heaven and so it's it's His his his relationship to his father must obey. The father is now complicated by relation to a father substitute who's taken and who we now has to kill of course for foy disa- the oedipus complex and it's it has to do with the sun internalizing that father figure against whom. He must rebelled yet at the same time with him. With whom must also identify killing the figure that he identifies with means in a sense killing the figure who's also himself if he incorporated identified with the father if he rebel against him he's rebelling against himself. That's why the greeks speech in hamlet is to be or not to be. Should i kill or should i not can. They exist or not. Should turn the blade against myself not to be and then he goes on and said yeah. Maybe i should do it. Then after i die it'd be like having bad dreams. And so he talks himself out of it again. The same thing happened here and in one of the most incredibly rich seems you see at team. The young boy. He's got a gun and he's looking in the mirror he's pointing the gun at himself and his hand is steady. And he's you though the this is very much like he's thinking should i do it. And it's the seem that replicated of course the famous seeing that we have in scorsese right where You talking to me. Utah pointing a gun in the mirror to himself but when he turns the gun to to a thorough the the the father figure is handshakes. He can't do it. it's like he'd be shooting himself and he he doesn't have the power to do that. So it's definitely a film that has that edibles struggle of killing the father and it gets further complicated. because he's developed feelings for the mother figure and it's exactly the same way as it. Works out in hamlet. Hamlet is too close to his mother and here we have a team who is too close to aisha and it gets complicated. Aisha's payments figure in muslim society muslim With religious thought. she's the youngest wife muhammad. And there's a moment where mohammed has gone off and people that are following including aisha. Aisha she's kind of late behind somebody else's sort of helping take care of aisha that should mohammed punish isha for that relationship that got developed get spilled over into the filmer i should the is now a young figure like the young wife of aisha of muhammad and She's in a sense. History is being set up for that same relationship with Without with a team will become the sun figure for for her husband. It's very late me that you have one character who has the inability to speak where he needs to have an outside presence to help him speak. And then you've got the grandfather character who can't see it seems very it. Seems like there's something going on here with these two disabilities. Well that's a good point. I haven't thought that through. But i think that the disability is clearly it's a symbol for something besides the physical to disability that there. I don't wanna say it's a it's a flaw. In the case of the grandfather. I referred to him. As the as the if you will. The original patriarch. He's got in the desert. He's the one who sets a team out to take revenge. Revenge take revenge for the death of his father. He's very the desert scene in. This film is extraordinarily. I mean it it says oh we've gone back two thousand years to an ancient biblical period. Where this figure has his power but his blindness is like his inability not just simply to see her understand but to exercise. Total the power of the father. The father that figure of the powerful patriarchal father the father. God god the father. God who who gives the moral imperative to the son of revenge. The god who is who has the power to to launch the military rockets that that that will lead to his controlling the universe or in this case chad has been replaced and has been replaced by his son who is no longer capable. Or let's say interested in playing that role of the father. I think that both father that that nizara who's the substitute father Is like that as well. He's the owner of the guns. He's the one who killed at the behest of the previous ruler. He was the one that enabled the dictatorship to take power and it's adage that shift to a new regime that we see happening in the course of this film without team as as a representative of this youth of the new generation but the name teams orphan. His father's gone fathers did and unnecessarily can't take that police of the father that the patriarchy headed had demanded you could probably go back to sixteen o five or whenever was that hamlet was written when shakespeare was going through that same transition a not just simply and rulers but in the nature society of elizabethan society in the early seventeenth century. Very much like what was happening. I believe which the shift into mundanity and of power. That was taking place in chad at the time of independence the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies in nineteen eighties. So yeah i think your point is really important that we see these father figures no longer as capable of exercising the power of patriarchy which requires that the sun's move into the position of ultimately replacing the fathers and that replacement for whatever reason can't take place it can. There's a blockage in that replacement. And i love idea that whatever understanding we have of that we placement. It requires asking the question. Where are the female figures in the story and as it so happens it is that is that figure of the of the mother who's who is not seen elsewhere in in the film who is part of the animation would drive the action especially like that. The grandfather tells a team at the end. Now you are a man like that is what it takes to murder the other person to murder the the false father exactly makes my point because for us then that that is the key. Line which is ironic. It's ironic for two reasons. One is because the grandfather can't see what we could see so we appreciate the irony that he's deceived into thinking. Revenge is taking place but he's also deceived into thinking that his grandson has become his instrument of a revenge that is to say has become a man the way we understand the word band before haroon is wonderful. He's brilliant. He did a film called gregory with a handicapped character. who dances which is just astonishing. But it's the same story. It is an african story of our day that we can't simply create without conflict the story of the sun replacing the father when we realize what the father represented and with the father represented to the generation of filmmakers lake. High is that they were on the one hand. They raise the children that they taught the children. African values that they were the patriarch within the home but at the same time they were subordinate to a colonial rule which which was greater than their authority and and the the children of those patriarchs had to have appreciated the double bind that their parents were in on the one hand seeking to exercise authority and raise them within the culture as they saw valuable and yet at the same time subordinate to another culture which did not share the patriarchal or this case. The general values that the father would have had and so they were torn and i think the place where they were most torn from the beginning. I ain't nike. I could give you examples but the stadium for now with how the women fit in. Because you can't have that patriarchy as an absolute image of what it is to be a man well without the subordination of the women and in fact what happens towards the end of the colonial period and with the coming in independence is that the women refused to play that role of the subordinated dominated subjugated figures but insisted on entering into what we call moderna. That is got jobs dillard to drive as their children and so like seven whose law makes a movie called tarquini around the year. two thousand. we're all of a sudden. This woman is raising her kids on her own sending them to college. She's got her own business. She's telling men what to do. And the whole world is turned upside down with the with the picture of women so you can imagine within that world having now coming into its own as well as with people are going to say. Where did that come from. That's not our tradition. It must be those corrupt. Westerners brought that in until women were faced with the double bind of on the one hand not wanting to be subordinate and yet on the other hand not wanting to be seen as merely emulating european western american female values. Communism has been the most vex location for the entry into moderna for the for that particular reason that women insists on having. They're not simply their rights but their place that their agency. I should say women they want to be part of this world and they're making movies now and these movies had women women directors. Where did they do this. How did they get to do this. that shift of new period really. It's fundamental that we have women entering into that Into internet into that rule. I think that what a film like the rajasa clears away making it possible for us to envision. I should story that. She's a figure who matters and the next movie she'll be directing she won't be simply the wife of of the failed pitcher that resistance to feminism and to gay rights as that coming more culturally will more via religion. I know a lot of these countries that we're talking about practice islam. I mean is it just more of a historical thing that this is not accepted by society. I'm curious where that resistance comes from. And you're suggesting is more than one location for the resistance. Thirdly the first place to look in the easiest is patriarchy. It's in our day and age when you have a figure like trump who both Having sex whenever he wanted and so forth and half the country voting for him. It's not that western society is free from the same patriarchal crap That anywhere else. Struggle is similar in africa In in this country people might say something like well. You know you get over it. You realize that women are part of this world you think you have all the power but cuomo is gonna be thrown out of office where we're not in an age where men could dictate the roles are anymore. We live in age of me too. That's true in. Africa is well with the same kinds of pressures. If you ask it's it Religious is an islamic religious pressures. I could tell you within the church in this country. Traditional family values is a code for patriarchy perhaps his will and those same institutions of evangelical religion in africa are linked to the same the same forms that we have in this country in some cases. Least one that i know of is kind of horrendous. Were a a well known. Evangelical preacher in the states went to uganda and really lobbied. Their government pressured them to declare homosexuality satanic and evil and so forth. And you will. You'll find one way. I framed is resistance to moderna. Di that is a change. Where when people think of themselves as being part of a modern world whatever that world that word modern means it's often in conflict with the word tradition. Which is traditional which could be linked to religion. That can be truly in this slum. As much as it could be true in christianity though each each will use their own bible koran and find the versus they want in order to condemn it but if flips built ways i mean islam is not united around the question and we'll sanity is as you know if you look at the arab spring in the struggles that are taking place those who struggles that also have to do with the role of women in society and increasingly within the muslim world. Women are demanding their rights just to same along the same feminist lines as they are in sub saharan africa. That's been true. I can tell you we were in. We were north africa before sub saharan africa. We were there. The nineteen seventies and women were fighting for the right to wear mini skirts or to marry whoever they wanted works to get jobs. The same struggle similar struggles. That you find you find elsewhere lies partly there and partly the reaction against feminism against gay rights has been framed has been framed by traditionalist for by patriarchal forces as a struggle against western values that it gets linked to the notion that this came from the outside from colonialists now they want corrupt our society and we have to struggle against so get. That's not religious but the two over overlap in places throughout zimbabwe in southern. Africa is the same but you also have you have countries like south africa for example or gay rights are probably stronger than any other place on earth and there are other countries where they gradually becoming exempted. We started this conversation talking about you. And i'd like to wrap it up talking about you as well. I know that you retired now from msu. And i'm curious. Are you still working. Are you working on more books and articles the amer tired. It's been three years. I think since i retired. I haven't stopped working. I do have some graduate students who were still in the process of writing their dissertations. And so i'm linked to the university directly through them but it's a hell of a lot different when you're not teaching courses on film anymore. Watch a film. I no longer think. Gee i wanna teach that one. It becomes more like well. Maybe i'll write about it. And yes i'm still publishing. I'm still involved with other people in projects I'm involved in project right now. With the african studies association of choosing the best african film of the year to which we give awards every year. So that meant that. I've watched thirty or forty films african films in the last Couple of months to work with my colleagues to try to tra- very much involved with that. And i do branch out in trying to branch out a new direction somewhat but wherever i go at this point in my life. It's really african film. That supplies the location. Where imagine here's a topic. I want to talk about. Here's something i want to write about. I can't do it without taking my examples for african cinema. It's become in sort of driven my imagination. Imaginary to that extent presser harrow. Thank you so much for your time. This has been great. Thank you. I appreciate the chance to talk with you and i really liked your thoughts that you had they were really good jumpy points for me. All right we're back we're taking about durant and let's talk a little bit about the ending. Would it should have been was a. Tim comes in and he makes this is put on his old uniform and march around. And i'm trying to think of what else happens after people. I haven't read that forever. And i refuse to watch so no frame of reference for what you're talking out. At least it wasn't apt pupil. So that's what i'm saying. I thought you go with like the the tarantino version of a blood fast right. There's a shootout a tim grabs. It can't dog food and starts beating over the face with it. Then lights him on fire with a flavor. Yeah that's the ending that this movie deserves clearly. I mean why have a nuanced ending when we just have you know shit. Blow up. Leonardo dicaprio drunken pool. What's what we're missing it. He missed he missed. Well they should have gone back twenty years and a tim somehow defeats the forces that created the civil war in the first place and we just rewrite vices. Ourself we went from guaranteed tomorrow for you. Yeah one of my favorite. My wins in his whole movie to moments One is when the police arrive at the bakery and they have like a notice our nose but a summons for him were nasra and he gives to a team and a team reads it in a moment. You realize no nostra's illiterate and they don't spell it out. It's just a brief little character moment of like it's five seconds and it's like it tells you that very key detail which also kind of leads to. Maybe he was like brainwashed early on by like a corrupt government. And that's like the magic of this movie. It does these little character moments. That really make you think about everything that's been going on. The film doesn't go as far as to say like you mentioned spencer the nassir renaissance. I think i who knows how to pronounce it. We pronounce it. I assume close enough. Nassir era at some point in his life. I assume was a normal decent. Human being was not borne evil. Because the sodas born able does. I don't think would come to this conclusion. Later in their life so again like you said spencer. It really does keep reinforcing. Can you feel sympathy for this person. What does that mean. What does that look like is it. Absolute sympathy is there is sympathy with a hooker with a catch a. What does that look like when you have a character. moment of. He doesn't know how to read. I mean that again. that's just. It's pushing that sympathy meter and it's pushing that sympathy with the audience and it works. It's effective it's very effective and also not moment you learn that's not as name. His real name is Abdallah usa and so nas rouses a pseudonym alias. he'd been going by yes probably trying Not be recognized by people who he hurt during the war and then my other favorite moment is at the end when he traveled to the ground in these sorts the pray silently in the grandfather says killa scheunemann again. Which makes you think like canada grandfather. Hear him praet or is it just a grandfather wants to make sure like his grandson is finally a real man quote unquote or both. I know that is a really good question. Because i wasn't sure when he said finish him off like how we're things is he. So yeah that's a that's a good question and then yeah 'cause you can see massara praying. You could see his mouth moving. But i didn't hear anything. Maybe the grandfather had that daredevil hearing could given the man speaks with a voice box. it's just such a heavy emotional scene and it's earned. That's the thing too is doesn't feel like where the hell did this come from. This isn't earned it all. But yeah i was just like i'm here for this. I'm this movie. Has taken me someplace and ali barkai. Just i mean. This actor carries the film on his shoulders and as fantastic absolutely fantastic. He is an Movie white material which i think is great Clarinex alike there will be a horrific scene somewhere. And it's all aci is in it and you could My friend ron kessler. He argues that you could say that's a sequel to durant with with buck or. It could be him if he went. The direction is of his grandfather in like embrace. You know like you know. I like to emperor in price. The hate the anger i mean. That's what his grandfather wants. That is. I've been that struggle at the end of the movie is do you do the bidding of someone who is filled with hate. Where do you do. you abstain. Because the person that is being They are being asked to be killed is trying to do better right. That's the question in selena about like what would a real man do and Inevitably explicit. I don't think explicitly brings back masculinity. Is this kind of is. It's always there and if you're paying attention tension like you know you'll know it's also co op talking about like you know. What a real man is in the situation. I like that he team. You know when with mercy because if he killed them. I don't think i would like just movie as much now. And i don't think i would have felt about ten after the movie. If he became a murderer because he basically would have become the thing that he hates the most. I guess there is only will only is kind of one outcome for this movie. That really works then because from the sound of it. Y'all saying what you y'all said and i would echo that one hundred percent if he had killed nassir at the end of the film. I won't say that. I could not have come around on him as a character but it would have been a much larger hill to get over mountain to climb. You know it would be a harder argument to make to me at least to convince me that this is a character. Attempt now still deserves my sympathy. As a character even though he committed one heinous. Act if you're listening to you haven't watched it like it's not homework. It's very easy. Movie i watch. It deals very serious topics. And if you buy it breezes i. It's never oppressive any point like it's effective books. Not oppressive is the film of available easily with english subtitles amazon. Prime has it right now. Fan or has it always check youtube because you can find a number of african movies on youtube took might be on there but there's a french. Dvd that i have but I think there might be reach beauty but Bams on is the easiest way to go never used band or have you mike. It's been a while it's been a while. But yeah i think i still have it on my roku just one more that i've never heard of at this point. Cut the the crop up. Like what was the one i just i added keno now and phil movement to my roku keno. Now just feed you those numbers all through the day. Give little animations of like these numbers show an offer like a fisherman who pulls out like six numbers. Yeah now. i'm assuming keynote over. I think so. Yeah in the scene. I rented a title though. I thought i bought a title and so when i went to finally sit down to watch it i found that i had rented it in the rental had expired. And now it's not available anymore. So how that seems like oversight. You should just refund someone if they don't watch it. It's almost like they would log. How many times you watch it. It's almost like they do probably could complain. Get my money back but it was five bucks five bucks complain but who's listening. I like revenge movies time watchers. I always think like why. Don't you like revenge movies if because this one like really makes the question like what's the point of it. But then i think of flake isolate devil which is like in some ways opposite per still have soulful equality to at the very last moment. But there's still a party like this makes me this really question like why do i like you know people taking revenge in movies exactly because really makes a good argument of like actually should enjoy that. It's not it's not as simple as as you know. Movies make it seem well. I think that. I think that that is the point. That is why. I think you probably liked them. Because you're talking about the simple ones the fund the fund ones. I mean who doesn't like a movie where it's like. I spit on your grave or last house on the left or those are revenge movies right. I mean i mean something like that. I think it's because it's not that it's not done as deftly as this film. It's not done deftly intentionally because you can't in it in an audience that has some doubt about whether the villain quote unquote needs to die. If you want us to believe that the good guys are still heroes are still heroes morally. Good heroes you have to make the villains as reprehensible as possible and. This movie doesn't do that. Obviously that's the intent of the filmmakers to make us question and like you said spencer wonder why we like these things but we liked them because when they're presented well it's all about like how how far and how deep into the whole are you buried as the villain in the movie. I mean you wanna see them really get their come up and so but to your point is it is a little blood lusty at his little lab a little much archives. Let's go ahead and take another break and play preview for next week. Show on at all. She she fights so we see to continental. And i'm up on attica gani. You'll know quigley goofy tonight. I'm amy kazlo can move to combine with his looney of his. That's right we'll be back next week with a look at the con. Also chris and spencer will be joining me then. So chris and spencer chris specifically. What's keeping you busy right now. Over the culture cast. We are talking about television movies. Otherwise known as those things that people don't consider real movies. That is my job this month to somewhat change your opinion on that because okay well i try gonna try okay. I know it's hard i know. They have a bad rap in a stigma. I don't know why they're i mean. Look the fact movies existed all is astounding. Let's not kid ourselves. But we're talking about tv movies so we're going to be talking about some plays that have been turned into movies. We're going to be dying. Not some series short series long series. We'll see there's all kinds of stuff in august and you can find that culture dot com and you can find me and mike at barney miller podcast and twilight zone. Eighty five dreams for sale podcast and the culture tapes which you could still go and listen to it and you should. If you haven't kino's releasing the original series on blu-ray in october we are all that blue. Racer oh i pre-ordered already the dvd set has been out of print for awhile sure has and and you just purchased a product with these two gentlemen's voices on it. We are on the episode. The energy eater that is the many neto the bear spirit in the hospital. One with william smith r i p and spencer. What are you up to lately sir. August my my show Shoot japan shoots a pm player wave. Podcast we are covering contempt. Good darn movie. I think it's fine but interesting but the Wanted to guests loves it. And so it's i'm trying to convince me to to like more but it doesn't quite work wherever people. no i'm not big dr guy But and yesterday today tomorrow the rom com in thalji film which is a whole lot fun. And i think it's challah. The simpson movie is the other for august. I can't remember after change of schedule to Guest stuff happening. So and i'll be on grump higher podcasts. At some point recorded episode their whole thing. Is he pick a movie. You don't lake in the movie. You do like 'cause i picked mandy for. Why don't like an isolated delvaux for i do like and Another show. But i'd have no that moves from hell. I have no idea when my episode. We'll be out. I think i just heard the cries of one hundred fan boys go and what he didn't like mandy that turn it into two hundred fan boys because lavar burton said that One plus one equals two and at I'll give it two hundred there. Alex because also did not like that. Yes when he's drinking vodka in the bathroom. That's probably the best scene for me. Age a lot more interesting roles which i think it kind of has. I'm okay with it and the cheese cheese goblins funny. I mean that's you know. I am Kate cages generally like when the best actors working. Now in my opinion it just no now. People know how to work with him exactly. He's a very particular type of energy that some people. This like tom go crazy. It's like will then you get back performance in people. Think shitty. But it's and that's why you watch something like pig where he is very sedate but he feels like a powder keg just ready to go off through the entire thing and i like that. I think that restrained cage is the best kind of cage. There is well. Thank you so much guys for being on the show. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks especially to our patriotic community. If you want to join the community visit patriots dot com slash projection booth every donation. We get helps the projection booth take over the world. False can do repeat love you soon. This your house others. My mom come fame Own can't An airwave media podcast.

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A Girl and a Wheelchair

Optimism Vaccine

1:35:08 hr | 11 months ago

A Girl and a Wheelchair

"Hey welcome back this scene. I'm steve jordan. Me is always sexual dynamo. He's got a small bank account. Put a big heart atta myra. It's a clinical thing that are there we get by. It's all right man and we'll get you an ekg. They'll you know which on some medication will aspirin every day we find. Don't worry about it. Also joining us jacob pila. I'm jake that's a catchphrase. Now man that's what happens. All this podcast fame gets to your head and you come out with the catchphrase. You think you're going to get you fucking doll with like upholstering all that stuff. You're in it for the fame. Essentially yeah well you know you do You do much podcasts. And that's next to your on king of the world and Finally under normal circumstances. I would make some sort of an irish joke at jackie since expense. However this motherfucker jumps into our chat before we're about to record and says i need five more minutes on boiling potatoes. You irish motherfucker. How are you doing jackie soon. You could such disdain. For the great state of ally of idaho steve do we have any downloads from there because frankly the data was a wonderful at facet stable and yeah go fuck mashed potatoes nasa for four days. So jokes on you. Also when he said sexual dynamo is already like great to be here. Stephen adams up. I'd just off the terrorists clearly. The only way that i can introduce you is he's got a pot full of spuds. That's with the comically exaggerated irish accent. That's that's what i gotta do x. Ray so what do i guess. I'm jay talking absolutely nothing. When when the jackie gleason podcast all comes out. You press it. Stomach and dropkick murphys songs play. And that's it that's all there is well. You know we like to do these every once in a while. I always feel like it's a big mistake but with the lack of of real theatrical releases feels appropriate to wait until the waters of new releases. Be they on hulu video on demand or irresponsibly released into theaters where people get diseases because they need to go see ten in or whatever some new releases gentlemen and the first one we got up here this was originally going to be theatrically released. Its from the director of searching. And then wouldn't you know corona virus comes around and gets picked up by hulu and unceremoniously dropped in our lap. So yeah let's. Let's talk a little bit about run john to miss jack. What the hell is rose roundabout to music. That was really good. That that's much better than the filled spoiler alert spoiler run is from the director of searching. It's about a one play. But sarah paulson who we opened the film. She just had cha cha boots to be in very serious mental or physical condition medically contained. We cut forward many years later. Her childhood survivors ready to head off to college. She's got some medical conditions which is really an independent strong young teenager. Doing very well am and then. She starts having some suspicions about her. Mom's care of her including some suspicions medicine. She's been giving in this and that and she starts digging around and starts to uncover that maybe maybe her mom is actually the loving maternal figure. She thinks she is its pilots shifts. And that's wrong. Why did she have these suspicions anyways that fence mired one of many that really take leaps of this. She's suspicious that her mother has been poisoning her for decades because she has a script in the grocery bag dismayed out to her. You know if my dad brought on some heart medicine. I wouldn't look at the grocery bag. Ooh this is a great tribute to the excellent medical system of the united states with its careful labeling that proprietary software hoops. You have to jump through to get medicine so you don't die and yeah no. It opens up a suspicions Finds droves with her mom's name on the but the drugs cheese given each night by her mother and Yeah it's it's one of these films just kind of like tries to it's it's basically says the two actresses the mother and the daughter. They're pretty much the only people involved in the whole thing and it it just turns into kind of like what if the person closest to you turned out to actually be something else which you know fair enough. I guess what. This film fields Firstly i kind of predicted Two avenues would go down real early on. I went down one of those avenues. Which was kind of disappointing. Compared even to searching this fell more more on the rails and frankly i think the only say anything formed by searching whatsoever and it's that at least by the end of it. I was kind of like flies any of this happening. And i don't really get that i don't get even the small joys of that year. This is very unlike found something more ordinary in like tap down to like half down to like real cinema. I guess a real filmmaking genre one of one and it's just much more boring and less rewarding than even this first bad film yeah history. Yeah this makes me go like cinema sins on this idiot at the time. I i can't stand this fucking director. I gotta say but i all of the setup for this is crazy and nonsensical. Yeah this movie but again you're giving your daughter dog medication. What kind of dog. Medication is gonna paralyze a human for decades specifically medicine. That makes your go. That makes it dog's legs dome. And if you give a teenager keeps in a wheelchair which i don't what does she give her like seventy five a day a large dog by large dog. I'm your goal for yet. I mean my best summation of this is that a like frankly Gandhi the director. Isn't he's not filmmaker. He's very clearly like an ambitious middle manager. Like he's he's. His career is a google originally before he decided go and make films. And it's exactly that kind of energy of someone who succeeded in business interests that all just make films. Because i've got money. Now i've got the connections. And he has no business doing he's in. There's no talent or insights or anything to this is absolutely like you know this is the kind of movie you make when you read books on how to make movies and it's just the most charmless boring film. Sarah paulson is pretty much. Just like even. She feels like he's older quite here. It's just a bunch of people looking surprised for ninety minutes. That's it lego. Can you believe this happened. Yes i can because there's very few options here. So one of the things i've already expected to happen will happen. And it's medically unbelievable. It's narrative unbelievable. The of suspense aren't very suspenseful. Yeah it just. It doesn't really work on any level whatsoever. I so glad. I wasn't stuck in the theater for this that that is one saving grace. Yeah well i think like the director. A niche shanty. I'm not sure if that's how you pronounce his name properly. I actually try to look it up. And i failed miserably because i only spent two minutes. But we're gonna go with that anyways. It seems like he has an awareness of genre films but he absolutely fucking hates them. And you can kind of see that soaking through because the absurdity of this story if you played it up as just like over the top exploitation and sarah paulson is just really like cranking it to eleven. You can have something very fun here but instead you get mommy dearest but just completely muted. It's almost like he's like well. That's a true story but seems a little bit over the top to me. Why don't we just take it down. A couple of matches that does not work at all It's it's preposterous but in the most boring way humanly possible. It's it's utter dog shit. It feels very much like something that was right to. I'm eating anything. Mommy dead At falls through the act which also was on hulu which was like a fictionalization story of mommy dead indira's and feel free to watch author of those and status of particularly probably watch mommy dearest shortest on the most on point at the act is not bad though. I did watch that. it's time it's it's got moments This feels very much like the the focus group that determined that the act did well so why not just capitalize on that further with another iteration of fiction based on the same concept. And i do wonder about the the like i feel like this part of a broader kind of movement of horror. My trouble kind of thinking of other contemporary examples. But this idea of horror that preys on our most kind of close knit social bonds. In this case a mother ended dole for mother at sheild. And which of course. Obviously you know what kind of a thorough kinda mainstay of horror generally but disorders stripped down pared down version. That seems to be happening now. We'll talk with more with another film. We're talking about Pared down to people in locked in struggle for survival. Almost the rest of the world doesn't exist. And i don't you know it's it's restraint in this increasingly atomised society where people are being pushed increasingly towards kind of extremism politically left or right as a joke. Left extremism doesn't really exist guys. But anyway i want healthcare. I want to kill all the jews. And it's like these are not even comparable extremists positions but anyhow slightly. Yeah you know. But but like i feel like as as we moved to this position where everything is being hedged more and more extremist kind of antagonistic movement. These kinds of horror films Bray on very close social bonds Enacting some kind of a grander fear. We have religious losing all social connection whatsoever. And i don't know it's It struck me watching this film. Also also with the fact. That guy comes from google a company that has done no small amount of damage to social connections generally Yeah i i don't know i just feels a little bit annoying. The the you know the guy who worked for the company that pushes allows the extremism and so on is then also the guy who liked spins around and is making this shitty movie about your mom. Want to kill you spoiler alert. Her fears are well founded in her. Mommy's actually a person mentally ill but mentally ill. People are bad in these movies because there's no debt but he deserved i. It's really just like one flat thing. You know that. That sticks out to me i gotta say. Is that mental illness angle. And i'm not one to get prickly about the subject matter than a director chooses to portray but when you are shegog anti here your whole modus operandi to be too hyper normalize everything like you know these things searching and this are both intended to be very sort of mundane everyday occurrences that spiral end of these situations. And and when you ground your film that way and you make it about how this person who has like. Munchausen by proxy is straight up the bogeyman than Consists read problematic. I what is the aim of this film. Who's the audience intended to be in. It feels like the sort of thing that a bunch of housewives sit around watching on lifetime and then they just paranoid that people are out to steal children that and and i think the true crime broadcasts crew you know and again the idea that you know you're murder murder and crime will mostly be no your most your closest lovable Earlier it feels like it's preying on very what would seem to become more normalized social fears. I do notice this strange paranoia brewing about the family and i'm not sure what it's actually hedged inner what it will amount to but i feel it gets become more and more of a normal thing that you know. It's kind of like of course our loved ones will kill us senate with cova. I mean it's all about basically you know we just thanksgiving and family members traveling and they're gonna kill grandma on whatever you know it's like we're in just a very strange place but yeah. I mean in terms of mental illness. You say it's very normalized and he's going for something kind of slice of life in the beginning and sort of senior Normal monday it goes out of control. And if john waters made this fill this could be a lot of fun or serving like a doll. It up you know when just change things around a couple of small changes could make this really foreign phil but it just doesn't read like that. It's a slog it's like it's known mandates and it's just a slow hall to get through and with this with this tone to me. It's somehow reads more expletive than boasts other stuff. I mean we paired this with a frigging film by david cronenberg son and this somehow made me feel more nasty for watching it it just it feels so expletive today. I don't know. I don't like this bill. No it's it's got awful jack you mentioned True crime and I watched this with my wife and she immediately pegged like two minutes into the film. She said oh. Is this the gypsy. Rose blanchard story for those. That don't know gypsy rose. Blanchard was a girl whose mother suffered from munchausen by proxy and so she purposely kept her sick and bedridden for most relief and when the girl found out she actually murdered her mother and And she's currently doing time. I'm thinking that initial gonty took that premise. And he's trying to run with this. It can happen to you. Is your mother your really your mother. Are you really well. But it's such it's such a yeah like a medically inaccurate. Pull shit thriller. I'm flummoxed at how this is like has such a strong critical consensus from both like audience and critics online and this would searching to hell is this is like this is like burg box whereas just as movie comes out that everyone glommed onto his this whole new fad and that is just ranks up all the all the views on hulu but in a movie with such disdain. Enter this spoiler alert but the movement with such disdain that the doors start searching she starts to uncover maybe she's not the biological daughter of this woman. Finds like photocopies of social security cards and things in the basement but then they have to literally. Her brother has kept news clippings of the couple she still. It'll box drove me up. Why would you can reach of your disabled daughter. That was because your audience sir dough masses than you. Don't trust them to know who the most glaring. Obviously i mean. There's new reason for but this is filled treats its audience with all her contempt as well. I mean just yet in absolute just Assumption that you were asking slack. Jawed fucking moron. Here's an extra shop just to clarify for you and it's time movie. It's really annoying. I mean it did. Give me a good laugh when that happened. Pigs at the trough this slap up. God member i think the worst scene of the year is the the four one one call that she makes And then got connect for i. He throws out the director thinks he's cute because he's got these references. He did four one. One guy suggests dairy main as town and then she tries to get in touch to a pharmacy but the pharmacy would actually charge the phone. Bill so then she. The solution is she dials. A random number in a complete stranger. Google's the pills that she's taking to see what color they are to confirm that they are in fact the incorrect pill. And it's like this over long out. Bullshit suspense were a complete. Stranger is helping her out. Has anyone checked of strangers. Voices john show and like a crossover going crazy. He's just google search. It doesn't google searches because she can't use the internet so that's the director's first step. I'm not gonna. i'm not going to repeat the same tricks. We're not going to have google searches. What can we do next. I got it a four one. One call that's everyone else would do. What are you doing. There is no google searches now. Don't sell this movie short though because there is an extended like googling seen that serves no purpose. Yeah no it's fucking super tents because they don't have wi fi or something where this pharmacist violates hicfa so she can give her subscription information because she finds out she's a fan of escape rooms just from a photograph on cheese. Food loophole for hit but shea gets following dog hepatitis a real is unreal and they love the closet that the their beds from is attached to the vet next stores of Liquidity allows for the dog medicine to be introduced. A flaw format. It's this whole fill is like if you reverse engineer this you would just be an left with more by the star individuals. It's this is just the most slack-jawed series but film. I'm so into the dog medicine though. Like oh man i got. My dog is paralyzed back. Legs pill to drag his dick on the fucking carpet. There's no don in the film and my wife a former vet tech me that you cannot get a subscription for dog medication of any kind without a prescription bringing an actual dog into the hospital. They're not gonna give you drugs sight unseen in. Have you ever considered that. The mom dressed up like a dog or store or yeah baby she can steal a dog and give it back again. Or whatever you know. It's weird again because they frame it. Even though this film takes place fucking seattle then favorite as if it's like a small town of five hundred people where everyone knows everyone else's every move and yeah you did the pharmacist. Who apparently could fuck recognizer phone number when she calls at just knows everything about these people's lives would know that they don't fuck it out a dog guide. It's so stupid. It's a that you bring up animosity and again we'll talk with crawl later on with the next film. We're talking about a great element of horror. Cinema is like the local geographical kind of locality to a regional element to horror as something know. It's really interesting looking older films that were shot in specific parts of the united states or elsewhere and so. It's so confusing to me. That this film has such a complete lack of regionalization. I think it was actually showing canada. I remember correctly which fair that happens. A lot like it said in seattle like they live somewhere like the commuter belt for seattle. And let you say otherwise. It's like it's like a one horse town like with little one. Is this magical land. The little tiny like strip mall cinema across from the the event slash pharmacy place. It's just absurd. there's nothing about this rings true and consequently none of is it any link. There's no tension to be derived from situations that are link. Just fundamentally just goofy and hit known will acknowledge their feet so frustrating. It's like there's ways you could. You could sort of enrich this. Maybe make it a period film. You could set it before smartphones and before this ease of internet access while blah blah. And then you don't have to hanway boy all of this shit. There could be a main street because that existed at america thirty forty years ago but now it's just It's happening today right down the street you know. All your neighbors are villainous Yesterday be suspicious of all of them. You know community is dead. You're living next to a pack of maniacs. Just remember that well. I mean but at least you've got your your drug store that isn't walgreens or a cvs just You know joe's local drugstore got dependent. One run room theater that that exists across the street. We you can go see first run movies. That makes sense to carry is very normal. I will say the only thing okay. I recently earlier this week. I'll watch happiest season. Which also on hulu and is. We're not sculpted but a much better film. Frankly he wants it through ending on hulu right now. Happiest season much better but also very goofy Tiny town in pennsylvania and they have like grand independent cinema. And i'm just like that's not real Exist no way the only thing in this bill anyway. More realistic affected the only cinema. Their towns Shitty like like like third run like fucking shoebox. Buildings toughened will most rip mold. That's the only thing in his move. That was yeah. That's so upset. Surreal everything else porsche. It yeah. I don't know man. Yeah this whole thing just upset me. I didn't even. I thought the medical stuff was hilarious. The thing that i got hung up on was just like damn. This is a huge house in seattle suburbs and it seems like all the mom does is grow a couple of vegetables and occasionally go and do some substitute teaching. Look to be fair. I mean if she able to get dog medicine without having a dog. She's probably yet killing on the benefits game for this ship. Which mommy did endear actually covers in the act covers because that's what the woman actually did with her daughter. That she made sing was she. She asks for the public. There is no public in this film though she ends to support group in the first in first seat. And there's like a support group for people with with very ill children and she's just fine and everyone seems to be confused that she finds My daughter's going to call it and we find out later on. She has no intention reading your door. Go to college etc but also her daughters following. I mean she's in a wheelchair she has. She's diabetic. She has medicines for this but her daughter is clearly following. Like why is she in the support group for people who were crying about the state of their children every single day and her daughter is mute. Like at home building electronic unlike hoping to get into university and enjoying every know like having a good time nothing about this and the only reason that opening scene i think. He's just to temper the expectation that the daughter is sick or show but she's not backseat and again. That's like the phil was just talking down to people with disabilities so pugh and they can't even carried through a lot like it's just incredibly disrespectful film like adam says Illness is just shat on. Physical ailments are shot on everything shannon. The kill postman. They tackle public services. Disgraceful still is awful. Yeah what happens to the post. But i'm worried about him. Whatever they will. There's the that bloody. She drags him. Mike through the hallway a trail of blood. We don't yeah that's for. She cuts him but jake yes says he's just sleeping all these. Yeah yeah you're right yeah. She injected him with what. My wife presumes is appropriate. That she keeps in her trunk next to a loaded revolver and the thing about profiles at for it to be effective needs to be refrigerated. Otherwise you're just giving people salmonella because of the way in washington stace. Salmonella will kill you so fear is pretty bad. Have injected into there was a trailer diarrhea. Unwashed lettuce that'll fuck you. Can you talk about the scene where the daughter is locked home in her room so their solution to get out is to crawl around the river house with an extension cord and a soldering iron in a mouthful water and heats up the water or the window sushi over mom's room so she can crack it with the water. I mean steve. Lemme ask you why not just grab a heavy object from inside your room in carry that with you and just smash another window open as a scientist yes. But she's good. Science man would look at that. Scene is that it's clearly must be a single pane of glass for the solar iron. Your temperature change trick to work crackers as ed but the frame of the window look brand new to me like vinyl frames which suggests at some point. This woman changed out the frames in her seattle farmhouse but not the windows. She just laughed at them the way they were which who knows. I mean munchausen by proxy. Currently i guess all kinds of home improvement at scenarios. Who knows yeah. I personally would have just taken the soldering iron or literally. Anything else in just smashed the fucking window. I mean couldn't she just i. I don't know it's fucking dummy. Would thick cut because you're not a science man. She says she breaks windows. She doesn't all really everything while you know we've been we've been pretty hard on this movie but like you guys said the the critics love it so i figured i'd i whole review from probably the most respected film critic and outlet currently working view cooler. So help me god. No there's a new king baby watch the throne ehrlich. Next best picture dot com our boy. Mattingly shout out to the goat. He actually has like. He's got an army like baby neg leah's so he didn't write this one but clearly. All of these writers were trained by negligence. They were forged in the fires of negligence to create beautiful film criticism. And so i got to share this opening line from damn bears review of run because Just the ultimate chef's kiss moment has the famous phrase attributed to gianluca dard. Is that all you need to make. A film is a girl and a gun with run writer director and east gigante amends that statement a little. All he needs to make a film is a girl and a wheelchair does he not realize he also need. The mother would wouldn't work without a mom girl crazy. Mind that yeah yes sir. The chairman Yeah so that's just a quick question at when he released searching at this was just a little bit. After unfriendly and critics were infringed is terrible searching his smarten crazy good and they were completely wrong on. Infringed is a really great movie and searching. His aspirin pilot mitigated. Shared is through another movie like this. That's outright now. That came out recently. That's way better than this of a similar thing is going to be that guy who just makes shitty your version of an existing movie and gets all the credit or other like mommy dead indira's which is a documentary. That's couple years old. I'm just going like is there another one too. Can we think of like a a flipped coin scenario for ron. Is there one. I don't know. I mean i don't think so i don't i don't think it really works is just like shitty misery if you really wanted. Speaking of the pharmacist name is kathy bates. So oh god man. He's always cylinders. I thought i thought the drug that she kept trying to google. I thought it was the name of the the gas chemical return of the living dead as all that snow. Now this dude like one hundred percent guarantee you. This district is never watched a horror movie for fun. He would never walk return of the living. Data's yet because critics don't like that movie of it's not like smart. This dude like sedan watch kubrick animals like Unlike that stand that but the critics seemed to like it. So i better you know a better steal some surface elements from this dude is just a fucking like. He's a just a board meeting personified in film form. He's the guy he's the he's the google san outside. He is just an ambitious mid manager. He's not a filmmaker. There's no there's nothing in this film that will stay with not image or an advantage or a ellipses to the narrative. There's nothing in here. That suggests storytelling talent or filmmaker absolutely barren desert film technique. It is purely film on technicality. Well listen man. All i know is that all the characters problems would have been solved if they had google pixel phones. So just think about that. Mullah one over well i have a potential solution for jack a little bit older. But when we did into the dark for the podcast there was a segment about a daughter who had a gora phobia in suspected. Her father was actually. A murderer is in great now but is substantially better than this. I'll grant that and they certainly marry each other to an extent. See that works. I was just thinking as well at like tech rose. One point one return homeless people into wireless hotspots because they're all fucking inhuman psychos and as this thinking if they got their way that probably would have extended a wheelchair users net also would've solved her problem so we should probably listen tech people more like wheelchair users have their wheelchairs. Be like rolling hotspots. Any great if any tech rose are listening out there. You can have that one for free all right. Well gentlemen from the wild wilderness of small town seattle to the wild wilderness of probably small town seattle adjacent oregon or something. We watched a movie called alone. Follow your clothes as a guy who occasionally wears glasses and has moustache. I felt a little upset by this movie. It kind of paints this all in a bad light but this guy looks exactly like bt k. Is that you're gonna be. That's what i'm channeling. I'm trying to give myself this. Serial killer next door kinda of kind of look and i don't know i don't need movies like this ruining it. Just let eighties dad. Mustaches be normalized again. That's what i'm trying to do and no one's giving it to me. It's fucking terrible anyways. Jake what the fox alone. We'll just real quick. I thought he had more of a dahmer thing going on with the glasses. But we'll get into that. So alone is a woman is packing her life into a u. haul and driving it across the state to start over. She's gone through a very tragic moment her life and on the road. She encounters another motorist. And it's the guy the man as he's credited it's creepy guy in glasses moustache. Hold them steve jake. She counter steve and he starts messing with her on the road like driving slowly in front of her and then he starts popping up at certain parts of the route believe making her believe that is cars. Broken down and is this guy. Is it just a coincidence. Or is this guy actually out to get her for some arbitrary reason and that is the plot of this miserable movie. I don't know. I think. I mean i don't think there's movies by any stretch but compared to some of the other stuff that we watched. Yeah i was. I was fine with it. Like it's totally okay. And this is my big sales pitch for for alone. It is extremely lean. Also the point of its own detriment. It doesn't really do anything particularly wrong in an egregious way. Real like what the faulk. But it also doesn't really do anything interesting it is like the most generic book thing doesn't make any mistakes checks all the boxes but then it doesn't doesn't really leave you with anything. It's kind of like an emotionless void but formally it it works. i guess. Yeah this my my problem with this movie honors housing. I think i think loan is honestly as merchants. I've not been bond towards role. i think. A is my least favorite movies. Were talking about here. And part of that John heinz who is a real director. He's done really great stuff including the last at universal german switch if you if you scoff that wash them. They are really impressive. Action movies ended. The last one is like a series like it's a psychological horror movie. It's it's needs. Open you in a very odd way really fascinating stuff. This guy knows what he's doing. And steve said there's nothing wrong with this film's executed very well but i do understand who. This movie is four. I don't understand the purpose of this filter has a specificity to that. Kind of drags me out of your Talked earlier about ronin logo flavor. And getting it wrong at that. It's not you know what there's no logo favors made up. The regional flavor doesn't make any sense here is a sort of. It's a forest in probably oregon or somewhere. I don't know exactly where but yeah it's just there's nothing like this new angle into this film. It's about a woman whose husband committed suicide. She sat about cheese moving on. But we get new insights into his suicide or into her grief or into the murderer or the kidnapper stoker while he does the evil psychotic it likes stays There's nothing there's nothing there am you know i. It's just it's it's one of those films. Unlike the what makes horror work for me. You know a lot of cases at lee. You couldn't make things leaning were well. Certainly if you're working with kind of interesting ideas but if you're working to attempt that you have to insert something new and interesting something to make remember. Who what are you going to remember from a low. There's trees that's it that's like it's just a woman looking sad in a forest for ninety minutes you know there. There's there's nothing to make me. Think about what she represented or anything am. Yeah a weird story. Actually when you put it on. I was trying out a new set up on my tv just different plugs and stuff and obviously i found an issue with one of my cables which led to for the first couple of minutes while she's packing up the u. hall and the signal would just phase out and i would just it would just draw sounded name completely unlike a rhythmic like every couple of seconds like sound and image would completely disappear at uninjured comeback over the film would just come back up again and through sequence. I didn't. I didn't know that it was a an issue. You know it seemed like it could have been part of the film and it was actually. It was interesting because she's going through this like packing her life. And she's clearly dejected. She clearly travelling and she's driving the car the image which is drop out in cut-back open. She's still be on the road. Maybe in the same part of the screen or same straight or maybe would have caught to a different part and it was kind of strange kind of time. Dilation effect from this woman. You know kind of disjointed Disconnect from her own life was was actually looking back on it. That's literally the most interesting thing in this film. It's not meant to be there. Still you know after it. Dr repeated into the opening credits. I realized something wrong with my cable connection. I change the stuff. Around fixed us and the movie obviously. I think that's probably not a good thing to be able to say about phil. So yeah i'm i'm not a fan here. It's unfortunately this one. Just i don't see the purpose of it. Frankly it's it's so efficient in its its goals and i don't really understand the goals a certain tension sure but i mean it's fictional and there's only so much self insertion you can do in terms of what would i do in this situation. What would you know what happens next. The phil was to my mind just after the anonymous. It doesn't really bring anything new to the table. It just feels like a. And it's a remake of a film from. I'm not sure where scandinavian country. I'm guessing But it feels like religious a remake of a photo coffee. A photocopy just feels like film. That's just kind of degenerated into just kind of like singular motion that you're so familiar with egypt tend to just even just sitting in watching this movie. I just felt myself just to out just like like my brain which is disengaged legally. So yeah not fan. This is probably my honestly my least favorite of all the phones we discuss. It's funny 'cause like the one seen that does stick out to me like you said. Oh yeah what. What would you remember from this. The one thing sticks out is there's a really good like practical stunt like a car stunt occurs towards the end of the movie where they like flip a jeep patriot over and it looks really fucking cool. Shot really well and then that's hilarious. Because his whole thing is kind of minimalist exercise in intention and the coolest part would be basically straight from a universal soldier action. Bill shine slaked alec jackson. This is not the formerly. This movie is better than half of what we watched. I'm i wouldn't say this is the worst film but it is definitely the most disappointing considering the directors pedigree because like jack said universal soldier regeneration and day of reckoning are like two of the best action films of their respective decades. And this is just yeah just a very straightforward minimalists thriller. Why does this movie end with like a universal soldier type fight in the mud with these two people. One who is ben exposed to the elements in his barefoot in this had minimal food and water and in the other guy. It is in kind of drove me mad that the movie ends of the way it does not satisfying at all. I would wrap up the I guess the summation why thing is this film versus. Ron is kind of like this. Is a bad film by filmmaker whereas wrong as terrible as it is has one thing in only one thing going for which is that it is so poorly constructed by someone who has no business doing what they're doing that it is a curiosity rather than a film and in this case i would say maybe curiosity bests of film a bad film that that is the coin to thing and the only way they can account for how john could come up with something so stupefyingly boring. Frankly i mean like onto. This is like the james franco the rental like this. This comes in even below at least data like as much as they were annoying characters. You know when that went through the same Vibe at least they talk to each other for a while at least so many Happening this is. It's a loan. It's a woman on her own. Who sat her husband killed himself fair. Enough that's understandable. Why did he kill himself. We don't know what's her thinking about. We don't know boise killer. We don't know do you. I guess you couldn't. You can go wild with that. You can ascertain whatever you want from. But there's there's so little to work on here. I don't understand what what even the drive of this says. The script could be written he two pages it's pretty sparse and honestly i don't know it's hard to really recommend we seem to be in the minority It's it's another one of these stupid like run. I ran but that's that's different. Run is also based on king. Lear anyways hey ruinously but yeah. It's it's hard for me to be like. Oh i know this kind of person would like alone i. It doesn't really have an audience. It's not particularly mean or grizzly or twisty turny or there's really apply to other than it doesn't make any glaring mistakes and i saw. What is that like what what is it going for. Like i feel like it's trying to do the human will to survive and this meditation on grief but it it's not explored nearly enough in the film it again. I guess maybe if you're really into the revenue than you'll get something out of this is that i don't think she has much to live for to be completely honest. Doesn't seem like yeah. Yeah yeah well. I don't know. I the weird thought i had watched it as okay mic this this film contemporary pornography right in that like do explains point. Okay all right so contemporary pornography has a problem at all. It's that essentially due to the establishment of the first amendment protecting pornography. Like it's normal to make it now coupled with digital cinematography that allows you just run cameras for forever in low light. You can get loads shots really quickly. Means like contemporary pornography barely needs to have a story or a setup. You can just have to people bang for like forty minutes nonstop is farley ask would. That's the majority of contemporary pornography. Like it's forty minutes of two people are more banging and dawn whereas like back in the golden age of pornography marshawn film among other things. And you know offense. Come up with excuses to make it in the first place. Emit that porn films at all kinds of weird shit in them like characters at explanation work arounds and kind of just strange aura of kind of view no justification and a diy aesthetic alyce. That's why those films in the sense have lived on. Some of them are still fondly. Remember now because of these elements that were integrated not necessarily because we were like Foreign should be but because this is what was required to get it to work at all. This film feels like some. This moved to a point where you can get rid of all the bothersome elements and you could just make the straightforward. Just stripped down. We can get the shot quickly. Move on we don't have to tell the audience anything. They're used to wish they understand the genre. We can just pull up all the information leaving threadbare minimal survival tail and frankly Boringly no one's gonna remember this movie. This movie is going to be forgotten in like three or four months on the north shore anyone's going remember by twenty twenty one. And everyone's stuck at home you know it doesn't nothing there's no there's new sharm there's no nothing unusual. There's know it doesn't even have like a talking regional appeal. it's not even like a quirky. Townsfolk like at least get like some people in some town somewhere old entrepreneurs like a movie that was made here. It's just there's nothing to the film. It's just an assembly line production. That check is like a checklist of things. They checked it off. And it's all fine and it just released and no one's gonna remember this. No one's going to be. I cannot imagine anyone washington going. That's one of my favorite movie. I'm gonna walk out again or i'm going to watch this on blu ray like i cannot imagine anyone having that responses movie watching going. That was certainly film. You know. that's my dot smart. it's like contemporary pornography. It has it's just like they checked off all the positions and they move on their. Don't you know. I would say like i almost feel like and obviously we all came to a similar conclusion. So i'm giving it more thought than it probably deserves it. It almost feels like i'm missing something with this because it doesn't follow the same beats the disorder movie ought to in many ways. Like you don't really feel nature taking its toll on on our protagonist here i. It's really kind of scattershot. Once we get to this point where you know. You're not even half weighing in the movie when she escapes in the woods. And you're kinda like are at this is going to be the rest of the movie man against nature and this other guy will be lurking in the background on occasion. But it's just like this series of really brief vignettes must wear show a on river and then boom she meets up with this other guy and again the killers back already. It's broken into chapters for some reason. Yeah and the. The opening is also paced very strangely to like if i get that. He's attempting to build tension but it almost crosses the line the ludicrous when she runs into hp k. Like like six times on this road trip. It's like why do this but the only part of the film that rang in any way interesting to me is that there is this kind of building of studies clearly chasing. He's clearly following her but he has a broken the law yet. There's there's nothing actionable within us at her. As isolated woman understands that threat on shields. She never wavers like she. There's one point like towards the end where he stages a breakdown and he. He asked her for a ride and she doesn't give him a ride. It's like she doesn't break any of the rules in horror films. You're always like screaming at the present like don't do this. Don't give them a ride. Don't turn your back. Don't do this or that. She mostly doesn't do that. And there is an element later on into phil when she meets the hunter and he and the kidnapper finds the two of them have negotiate with hundred claiming that she's his sister in that she's mentally unwell because of the suicide husband. He's leveraging personal grief against her because he sees learned a few things about her know. There is a psychological to visit that is society that we may not. We may side with bad people. We were subject to social engineering. We can be manipulated by someone like that. The answer those elements of you know kind of i guess of social of dangers. Or you know the week we can be you know. What would we do in that situation. Those are the most interesting parts A so specific that. I don't think they read outside of the movie. And unlike year right at the end of it i mean it just ends in a big jeep flipping punch opened mode. Racked him over the head like seven times of the kyriacou. Jesus christ which the take this guy out. I see i feel like this. He reads strictly as metaphor to me. Nothing about this feels like realism. Feels like he's the specter of her husband's death. No matter where she goes how many times she thinks she's moved past it and left him by the back. It comes again and then she manipulates him towards the end. I just only wish you can get a one up on. Him is by bringing his own marriage into question which to me suggests he is a real for. I'm not sure read. His allegorical at all easyjet seems like kind of universe textbook like he's a killer sociopath like imagine a person haunts people for sport and pretends. He's on a business trip. And actually you know. When the when the point that i thought would have been interesting in the film. And they didn't fall when she met the hundreds wondering where they're working in sync and this is gonna be like you know. Multiple you know is ganging up. Like i saw the devil or something which was a movie that had like randomly cleats of serial killers who all other friends That's a much more amusing film for various reasons. But i'm yeah. I don't know he doesn't read his allegorical me. This reads like just kind of like it. Read The we're not gonna expounded anything because the world is so depraved. You're sick or you know you've read true crime stuff. You can't believe how like yvo ted bundy was that we're going to downplay all of those elements just like visages to do just wants to kill you and that's it you know it's very serious and yeah just kinda leads dole to me very boring and flat you know we need know there needs to be an authorship there there there isn't the author of specific getting stepped back from this and it leaves a very very bland text. I think we can both agree that Whether he's allegorical or just the individual. It's still bland text and not successful portraying either also a lesson you can take whereas if you do happen to run into hp on four separate occasions during your road You may wanna like all through your group get off. That main highway is not gonna go well that that is for australia. It's like it's very ground realistic. And yet he still has this. I know where you are at all time. Always there and it's gonna like this eighty slasher shit. You know if you're gonna go for like if you're gonna go for like you know grounded realism than you can't put that in there. You have to have some kind of an explanation other than like. I know these parts so you don't care how well you know these parts you down to the second of staging like a road accident and so yeah so doesn't even really live up to. Its own brief in lar ways. All right boys well. We gotta move on to other movies. You talk about. So let's let's turn things up a notch. Let's let's get a little nicholas cage action fair in here. We watched to jitsu common. You've seen this guy right now. Passes over the six years ago support a visitor from a distant galaxy. Poet warrior in the scifis space. Jake is this predator. For gamers anime weaves predator for dummies. That's for sure. What the fuck is this movie. predator for work meets world combat. I think would probably be the the tagline. If you're over one at seems a little bit more more aligned. His he has predator but like the alien has got like this dufy. Look in power. Rangers suits it's. I don't know this movie. This movie is just bad and it could have been fun. Because like that that twenty-second spot. You played with nicholas cage narrating that felt more riveting than anything than i saw in jujitsu which is hundred and two minutes of just how bad martial arts and not say that. The choreography is bad. Because there's actually some decent stuff in here but just the way that everything is presented is just all wrong. It does have a really weird feeling to it now. I didn't completely hate this movie because it's extremely low budget but it's that sweet spot of like not embarrassing but not too high. It almost feels like you're watching. Like sci fi channel and the year is nineteen ninety eight. And it's a saturday afternoon like this is the type of thing that would play on there. And it's got a you know a predator alien in a big stupid rubber suit. It's got a bunch of guys doing good fight. Choreography ruined by bad camerawork. And then a pretty hammy performance by nicholas cage and a story that makes no sense because it's like predator but also mortal combat and this happens every six years and also it's happening in a weird way this time because the main characters a pussy. I'm not sure there's a lot going on a lot a lot happening. So i i don't know i'll sergeant cutting engine is just say like i'm gonna fawn negatively but honestly i like this movie on the whole all. This movie is so k. cope around last you. A breeze does have that first person camera that she loves so much Either one fan of hardcore henry. I feel like it's worse like first person. Pov because it's it's horrible. I presume. pov at that. It keeps shifting like the director of arche bastard. Mine where the actor leg more senate out of first person report insane noth. nothing jacobs said is wrong above. The choreography is solid. The presentation is dog. Shit in many places but i do think there's a certain endearing characterists depicted in the director after just throwing a wall. What will appreciate about it is. The action is still quite clear. And and despite him randomly like a barrel roll with the camera over. That's clearly saying he wants to do is like that's the thing he invented is. Someone does like sober salt. He does a barrel roll with the camera. that's like he's being. I think he wants it to be thing. And it's very stupid but it doesn't work but yet did this. Movie is kind of like a honestly Because the underlying choreography is relatively solids. The only find that really indulges in some really great stunt doubling one involving nick cage who clearly is not hug Artists also clearly middle-aged. Beyond so you know it's strengthen each one of earth's greatest warriors facing off against an alien minutes not sure how he managed that this film to me has Goofy weird dolphin. It that i will fully acknowledged this parts of the film. I don't understand the story line. I can't explain i can. I can't tell you why our they have closed and make them invisible to the predator alien but they don't wear them or they take them down to fight him as if you're gonna fight him would you not want to be invisible. The alien has incredible healing powers. The human fighters are better than him. They keep afflicting rooms on him that if he were a human would kill him and then he just heels up and keeps killing them and then later on the cage. Talks with the alien is looking for an honorable. Don't understand how these things mesh did anyone else figure like. Is there a lawyer. I missed explains any of that. Isn't the alien like from time immemorial and he taught all these fighting skills to the order. You taught the jujitsu as significantly. Yeah presumably he would. I mean with all this time to practice just going around you know. Fighting the best warriors the every six years for memorial than he would presumably be the best fighter of the mall. but now he's not really but almost lean. Well i mean. That's suda really encumbered encumbered. The guy so you take it for what it is. I wonder if they even had like a working script for this thing. Because it's just a nonsense city cents. It's pretty scattershot and weird and also it. It just feels like it's made by someone who's like twenty seven years old and spend half the budget on cocaine. And i. But i was surprised when i learned that director is not a coke down twenty seven year old but instead a probably coked out like sixty year old because it's dimitri logo fetus. I dunno if that name rings a bell. He's a bunch of dumb bullshit like kickboxer sequels from two years ago. Things that maybe the world doesn't really need right now But what i know from is low. Movie called slaughterhouse rock from the late nineteen eighties of any of you. Guys seen slaughterhouse rack. I'm gonna watch that immediately. This to watch lead me paint you a picture of a better coq doubt idiot movie where a guy has like nightmares about alcatraz prison so he goes and visits it and then he goes with his brother at his brother is possessed by cannibal demon and so the guy enlists. The help of toni basil the. Hey i'm just looking at the toni basil's first credit like we're has this been in michael. Oy she's like a she's like a ghost tube but she's the ghost of like a female rock band or something and does the whole soundtrack. It's fucking awesome. So yeah. I mean you know it's it's not not the best thing but this guy is basically been making things on this level his entire life. He's he's just he never lost his his. I'm twenty seven doing too much coke faces. She's carried all the way through a good shit. I appreciate this movie like hassle. The main draw here for martial arts. Vance is probable. Tony jr is is in the film. Anna hates really flying. They have been there and he has two lines of dialogue. Doesn't speak english. they just leave of their. He does a couple of things. And that's it. He's just and he's not. The main character is not really important that the action by the end of this at their. I thought that was kind of fun. Em would say about this. Movie is the first the first twenty minutes of this movie. It never badgers them. Sadly like the end that is data is a problem and it. It's one of those movies. And frankly 'em if i were to deliver like a Destructural problem with this movie. And it's something that actually curiously affect a lot of movies of this kind of budget level is that there's too much action. There are a lot of movies you like. There's not enough action. like action. movies put on airs. They have people talking like shut the fuck up each other you know. Get get with the program. Not ju jitsu shoots who has waited opens with like three actions scenes back to back for twenty minutes without baron stopping like this one sequence. I guess where they talk. Talked that a translator this comic black movie it took Amazing i mean i a. Yeah it's it's pretty dog but honestly what re expecting from mortal kombat meets predator. Let's keep a real keeper expectations realistic here. But by by a certain point to this movie you ju- started kind of feeling like a little punch drunk. There's just action sequence after action sequence. Oil choreography solid and in a few places noteworthy Seven a big point show. You're kind of like a. Could someone just like talk for a little bit queasy. Explain something and even cages blonde are not with the audience surrogate. Because he's nick cage but the guy who delivers all of the like story elements and even he has to like fight. The main character in the middle of but when spoiler turns out. he's dad. Nick cage is like the main characters tapped into reason on says As a spoiler if it matters no it's just a throw in at the end smug about it. They're like oh you know like i didn't fuck either that's stupid. No one says they do each other bill. Anything about what's happening and this is why by the end of like why is why is this happening. Why is it every six years white as the alien wanna fight. Apparently the main character ran away six years ago or something in heavy aliens pissed now. He's preying on civilians and boy civilian stymied heavily armed. As you've got that down right jack. I think he ran away like i think he read away mere moments before we had the food's good that's okay because the opening sequence. I wasn't entirely sure that okay. So he ran away from the fight and got an mesia then like philip in like the last day which is really high stakes shit back in great okay cool. Six years prior nick cage had run away from safai. Even though i don't know right thing which is like what generation will be fighting. What time when the thing comes every six years. Why wouldn't this strapping son of nick cage. Be the one fighting in that. Go route i it. None of it makes any logical cage fights on the leakage ran away from six years ago when they find the alien like obviously like an expert reverence for nick cage for no particular reason which is in direct contravention to ever. He said previously in the movie. They do like a little honor move before they start fighting like they understand brooms they remind me of. I don't know if you remember the the predators. Movie from like two thousand and ten with adrian brodie which is just a bunch of con- convicts thrown onto the predator planeta for the predator sport at like halfway through the movie. They run into laurence fishburne. Who's apparently survived out there for. Who knows how long. And that's what the nicholas cage felt to me is. He's the guy who's kind of survived the alien all these years so but again this is just derivative of a weaker. A predator sequel. Not even the what it needs is just like any touchup. Frankly any touch up on the script would certainly go a log. Fuck away because you get no sense of this world at all this takes place in burma or myanmar whichever suits but yeah so it's about this ancient order of jujitsu monks or something except you never see any other characters except for the warriors and the warriors are in no way. Fuck it burmese. That's for fucking sure. All it's like frank grillo in nick. Cage insists essential like grizzled white guys like out in the middle of the jungle. And that doesn't it doesn't jive with the story you're telling frankly not like this is about recruiting the best warriors from across the continent. That what this is. What's mentioned that the story you're telling and again the timeframe thing is just the stupidest Jack the only thing. I think of as to why it would be six years. Because it's so illogical in the structure is that they were trying to set up sequels with the same cast as the could possibly think. oh absolutely. I think that might be adam. I think you hit the nail on the head. That is at the director of this swat with john williams from olo if to do we swapped directors those movies. We could've ended up with the low in probably wouldn't benefit from it but tsitsi could have for extensively but even olympic pretty fucking weird sky off a good. Yeah you know. What actually probably. Because i mean i i actually. I quite enjoy this. This is absolutely a beer and just put it on the kind of movie. It's as much complained about like a low having this this breath of detail. It's a blank slate. And then ron has details but they are all stupid. Don't make any sense. This movie has like so. How amidst all the porn shops has almost too much explanation known of that actually explained that he thinks this is an enormous amount of people talking about low or an honor and respect and fighting calmest and a portal and honestly it kind of translates into a movie that a you know auto remember this. This is a least thing it cynical certainly like it really is predator above all else like it is absolutely just kind of ripping off another movie incredibly but like what if they did martial arts rob than carried around like a mini gun. But you know it's it's kind like for the budget and the setup. There's a couple of there're a couple of really good martial arts sequences in this and i think jaws they did they do like kind of a big one shot sequence with jamie. I know it's kind of like the does your. But i thought there was something nice that because honestly i think the one take martial arts sequence in contemporary action saying cinema really took off with the protector jones Moon i guess. Is the tony jaw film. Has this phenomenal one. Take sequence and i really resigned to me watching that back in like two thousand and eight six remember when that movie came out fellow. You know it felt like things to change on balk which tony jaw felt like Like it's an epoch defining actions. You know that changed action cinema everywhere. You couldn't do the old stuff anymore because on balk just it was just no one even had to have full contact stuff you know i guess moving on to some degree you know the raid is like the rate honestly isn't even e- changing honesty. It's it's still in this way of song. Balkan the protector. So it's kind of nice to see tony's y'all roll back into the fold again to do even if even if it's like a pale imitation is kind of like you know. It's a very kind of calculating kind of thing you don't on this budget level. you know. it's it's kind of fun. The action is clear in terms of performance are capable. They're doing this stove even if she were directors swinging the camera in wall. Let's do this first person like a general cinema rule. I would add to any aspiring directors out there. If at any point someone says. let's do it first. Person never do that. It's always a bad idea. I think the only example that. I think it's not a terrible idea. Is that humphrey bogart movie. The name of which escapes that like opens with an extended. First person sequence axiom and outside of that. Don't don't ball very. This was an old march to that. This it could be. You does With enough coke in your system anything can just like these are connected now through interstellar comets and shit see. What i would says is too bad. This movie doesn't star tony. Jaide stars fucking sentient slab beef. Yeah he speaks english. You can't undo wise brain damage. Just make about huck speaking here. He speaks silent protagonists the ad. We've solved now really military bullshit. That doesn't have any place in this movie and cut your digital effects budget down to zero dollars. And that is true. The military set up with the stars A us occupying group in burma which is entirely That's believable but yet is like a woman i think to sexual tension between her and beefcake was dies. Yes and one of the many extended action sequences that opens the film on the knee athers. There's no other reason you know. I can this to so much wrong with this movie. But honestly isn't this cinemas all bags and this is the last thing. Say about this one movie. We gotta move onto butts in the last year. There's been worse. Nicholas cage movies released so big it. That way you could do worse you could do much worse. You can watch primal. I mean don't but you could. You really wanted to sell. There's that all right gentlemen. We got one last movie to talk about so How about something good. We possessor initial minding. It'd be locked in control permitted during this performance. Myross what the fuck is possessor. It's it's a worthy. Follow up to the work of david cronenberg. I think it might honestly be more interesting exploration of the evolving teams video. Drummed than cronenberg's ellen existence. Gu i find this to the kronenbourg son brandon coming into his own as a filmmaker. I think this is really good. Shit really good shit that good shit. Also my god before we get nuts bolts this thing i just want to say like practical gore effects in this are intense like be good but dan brandon crow. Hooper -absolutely i mean. I'm not. I'm not like i don't wanna come wanna get uncomfortable around like graphic violence in a film but like this movie is just uncommonly vicious which is great. Yeah this is. This is absolutely When you when you watch like run alone on any watching another movie you might just think like. Wow this is really good because it just like an idea under visual schema but i think possessor it's like this is genuinely good and i'm sure brandon cronenberg got a head start through nepotism. But frankly he's he's doing some good work here. This is a really interesting conceptual sci-fi thriller the puts me in mind of the central plot. Premises factory is the company that they basically except facination request during the job of killing people for providence and they have very novel way of doing it where the kid gets kidnapped. The person were urwah interfere with the person who are able to put some implant in their head which then allows them to insert another person's consciousness into that person so then they can control that person they can use that person as the actual kind of actor in a merger and then that person can usually commit suicide or whatever and it can be blamed psychic break and it's basically a clean assassination with no suspicion whatsoever and this is obviously sifi during which Reminiscent of ghost in the shell. Which zimmer ideas of digitizing consciousness of someone invading your consciousness of the affectively hacking. The human mind. But i mean in in their contemporary society where you have people like the first things i was putting mine drone operators. You know people who drive to work and sit down from computer pilot a plane blow up a bunch of people in totally different country than drive home and hold their kids you know. It's it's strange idea of this kind of dis- danc- ation between act in intent on kind of like a bureaucratic structure. And i kind of bleed out from that further to kind of an idea of effectively alienated from your job. Just generally maybe job isn't killing people but this idea that you're you're very kind of cognizance is a human being being owned devalued by corporation. You start feeling like you're not yourself any more start question at easter to wonder what you're working for Really great ideas in this wrapped up in a solid power annoyed thriller that as you goes out is just insanely violent. Which if you're if you're looking for just old school blood on the dance floor shit. This is like all allow just crazy. So i'm you know every onto a jujitsu. I enjoyed the other two suck but this is genuine. Like actually our choices. This is worth your time out. This is this is really good shit and i. I don't know like at first. I was struggling with this. Because i mean is brandon cronenberg's data kronenbourg and. He's work is so similar stylistically thematically to his dad. And so you have that. Direct comparison part of like brandon cronenberg. Please spread your wings and fly away from daddy but at the same time. Kinda like myra slew. To second ago this is this is really good. Shit he's taking a lot of the stuff that his father did and and really expanding on it and taking it to different places so i guess this movie's enjoyable on multiple levels. Because yeah it's it's gory and it's weird at it's smart and it's well made but also it's it feels directly linked to another filmmaker that i absolutely loved so. Yeah yeah that's the thing chad he's gone he's not coming back. I mean i guess he's making some netflix's thing but he's really been way out of this. We'll for many moons now. And no one is picked up that torch and a lot of that has to do with the industry. Cert- like the fox gonna make this this instance because i this is not a thing. That's going to get any funding in honor normal circumstances but again. I sure i'm interested to see how evolves as a filmmaker but if he wants to modernize the concepts his father pioneered than i'm here for. I think it's something that struck me is not just obviously am. It certainly would make think really interesting though. Bill with history of violence cronenburg's obviously chromebook senior film. which is also bad guy. Who's kind of hard wired for this kind of like predisposition capability this kind of ashbourne nature of violence in society. In how can manifest in act out. I think both films have some kind of a perspective. Long specific issue bought the ghost in the shell. Reference is certainly not insignificant of this. I think more oshii is is a very much on. Cronenberg's mind here there's several sequences here through fantastic sequence. They have 'em where the guy is the guy who's had someone hacked his consciousness. I am questioning his. I think actually might be on the time when he's getting implanted with the other person's consciences fantastic sequences like it's building skin on invisible leak skin being poured on just forming his face in deforming his face pulls off. This is very unusual. Kind idea for you know Malleable maybe you know conceptual within the kind of a digital realm which plays into the film series. But it's also. I mean this ghosn shell innocence the sequel to film. I made so reminiscent of the credit sequence of that visually. And so i think there's this real genuine. I think following up. Notches cronenberg but also like. Oh she's work. In terms of you know full. Human consciousness in a digital age is kind of a what we say like as a kind of got will be the right word for a corporate entity or something owned as a proprietary thing that we can access that we can manipulate that. Can steal or change your companies can have access to were or take home or whatever privatize your your entity. Etcetera your This film is just brimming with ideas enders visual sense to it is well aside from just the over violence violence. There's this wonderful sequences of overlapping consciousness. That's developed in these kind of unusual. Surreal visual cues and yet Honestly i think is this brandon robert second feature only after antiviral. I don't get any other features. Yeah on like really. This is impressive. you know like i know i know. He has fans but like fucking. Alex garland wishes he could make film his. Frankly experience at this. This is really really good. I don't know. I only watched earlier than me. A lot of what he was attempting to do with enemy. But go. yeah is nowhere near the filmmakers brandon. Cronenberg that's an connection present. Sarah i think he's in antiviral. Who was the main actress in inanimate which put me in mind of them as well and she signed in this film which is a role but yeah Definitely me at mind. The enemy which is yeah absolutely. I think a film that wishes they could be possessor or even antiviral viral. Frankly it this is. This is good. What were we talking about this. As a discount on the roster steve. You fucked up you know going into this is the whole idea was like. Let's do critically acclaimed new releases. And also this jujitsu movie because it looks dumbest faulk and will probably be fun. And i had no idea what i was. I was dragging you guys through a puck in ditch full of glass. So sorry about that. But i- possessors great. Yeah is also like with the like jackson to highlighted the scene. Where the possessor takes over andrea riseborough. Or it's like her. It's like a stop. Motion animated sequence. Were like her. Skin like melts in a time lapse onto the form of the guy who she's targeted and then later on. once his consciousness starts to fight back. This is basically like used in all of the promo materials. This image of like him finally getting access to her memories. It's like him ripping off her face and using it as a mask which is such a like a brilliant visual style. Yeah adam you you mentioned added. This could have been like a christopher nolan movie. Gone like it could go wrong. I think that's like this. This is twisty and conceptual like christopher nolan movie. But also smart in way that christopher nolan movies tend not to be Kind of weirdly. Melodramatic often the weirdest. And this is kind of like if you like enjoy inception. but you're also okay with watching people's heads just getting splattered. This is a great movie for you. Yeah yeah like nolan doesn't add. The fascination fascinate biology that the kronenbourg seemingly Inheritance in their dna or something. But i don't know this is such a bizarre clinical movie in some ways and yet kronenbourg The senior apparently his son. I'm gonna lump into the just approach is served narrative very different way than nolan capable. They both seem equally sort of disgusted by human physiology as filmmakers but in the numbers will dive into that disgust and nolan. Just pretend that everyone's a machine it's interesting you say that because what i really love to about possessors at this movie does the one thing right about a body switch movie where the first thing you do is you. Go into the bathroom when you look at your genitals which is what the andrea riseborough does through this guy's body which is really really just a great touch. You'll never see a dick. Christopher annulment freaky friday have find curious. Alliances are thirteen going on thirty. Yeah like he just or vice about vice versa with judge. Reinhold proud cinematic legacy really is truly all right gentleman while we're running pretty long hair so we're gonna have to wrap this up but Yeah i'll say again if you haven't seen possessor yet i think it's there's video on demand release of it i don't know it's streaming on vod. Now and i think the blue route one week after the release of this podcast is there a censored version of this movie because There's like an uncut. I have not seen a cut version of. Its like released everywhere. Possessor uncut. and there's like some. There's a lot of graphic nudity in this as well. There's even a full on. Erect sean. At one point yet. But i would. I would just caution the listeners You know there might be censored version floating around out there. So get the uncut possessor uncut yup check out some dude dick's therefore you all right guys. Well let's i guess we're gonna have to. It's time to put over shit. We're doing it so first of all. Thank you to our generous patrons out there and yet we got. We got more stuff coming for you in twenty twenty one and jake what do you. What do you put over this week. Shit i was not ready. Let me see. I look people off guard. S good myross. Look good right now. That's right well aside from possessor. Yeah i'm gonna go ahead and put over another Were out of the woods of flowing. But i'm going to put over another horror movie by dario gento that i had just watched recently called sleepless. And i know jack has recently watched this as well. I got a copy of the mondo. Macabre label But as far as late period post. Two thousand dario are gentle films. Go it's excellent. It's gorgeous i. There's a lot of like demolished faces in the movie. Yeah i would. I would say check it out if you think he's somebody who's losses like way after the nineties. No he definitely has still has a couple of good things. Left him so yes. Sleepless are gento. That is my recommendation. Right what you put over this week. You're i thought he would at least pick an geno. That involved the recently departed arunachal. Odi are all those are all great as well. Deep red highly recommended as well rest in peace. I'm gonna put over on something real stupid now. We had a game. Where yet for holidays here is called exploding kittens a little card game. Some sort of juiced up you know for the internet age if he will but Simple little thing but not mindless and yeah i. I'd recommend it. It helps pass the time of thanksgiving. Hymns factual surprise exploding kittens. You want a little car game through these holidays when the app to discuss things with being relatives. Check it out going -dorsements jack what do you put over. This week is in that. I can both endure sleepless. Which i think is fantastic and also exploding kittens is good fun. I feel very much in the loop so far. I'm gonna put over at francesco. Matteo fair the mataya fair which is a movie. I have been looking for literally for years. And i couldn't find a decent quality copy of any. I couldn't find any quality copy of for forever. I think there's an ancient italian. Dvd longer print. And i couldn't find torrenting downloading nothing Dead end after dead end. Couldn't find it. Apparently with iraq open rights issues and stuff well low behold a new four k. Restoration has just dropped on the criterion shot from the world cinema project. Or something like the something along those lines just on the criterion showers overnight. I can watch matteo in fucking tanny. Apiece sparkling perfection. It's a great film. It's exactly what i expected of. A francesca rosie film. It's a true story about a guy named to enrico. Matisyahu who the italian state oil company through the nineteen sixties American bridge hegemony of the oil industry and kind of used state funds to build his company and then started working with middle eastern african groups building their industries in competition and then he mysteriously died in a plane crash athens. Yeah so at royalties. Film is kind of a reconstruction of his his life goals. Matteis played by john. Maria belong to a in a fantastic performance and a really greatest kind of like a socially conscious political thriller with some kind of unusual documentary elements to francesco. Rossi appears or insert someone in his role was filmmaker here on there as like gathering information about his religious. A really great film. That kind of a Maybe a little diminishing allen that were more use this idea. But basically when it like the early seventies is basically like Yeah appreciate sure. This guy was murdered by probably americans so they can make more blood. Money am so a pretty pretty good film. Well worth it and i'm just so pleased that it's available. I hope a blu. Ray release falls but for now. It is on the criterion channel in the new restoration. Fantastic so yeah check it out the matteo fair all right and this week i'm putting over. I guess putting over dawn of the dead but not the movie itself Second site just put out a completely over the top ridiculous berge special limited edition of dawn of the dead. And it's it's probably the most absurd single film release i've ever seen in my entire life. It's huge like i have not seen. A single is released the thick on a shelf. It is a robust package. And it's like i. I think it's seven discs altogether like to audio cds and five this with a blu ray disc like four different of four k. you hd diss and there's two books in it it's just it's a lot it's a lot and while i've got it on my shelf and jake scott. His and jack's never going to get his because the postman stole it. How's that feel jack. It sucks deflects hooping. You enjoy your copy while mine is perpetually trapped in new jersey. Yeah if only you knew how great it was and it sounds goods. I'm really fantastic. Maybe can read the books to me. Own i will. I'll give you a call. Read those through. And i'll just i'll give my little soft little kisses stephen iowa tuck you into bed each night with a chapter from the dawn of the dead book. How yeah well. Maybe someday maybe well all nets. if you're listening to this podcast right now you need to do is a big favor. There are links in the description to this podcast. And there's two you need to click the first one will take to our tunes page and once you reach that i tunes page. Big favourite leaves a five star written review. Why would you do such a thing. One takes like two fucking seconds okay. It's not a big deal. Just please do it into it. Boosts up our visibility in the mystical itunes algorithm. 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There's all kinds of written content audio content new stuff common all kinds of things world world is his voice. Once you get on there all kinds of beautiful things for you to discover mirus when when we got We got that new bloom house. Think when's that coming hard for me to give a firm date. This sean. Glasses on a mini hiatus. Here it'll be we'll say december sometime. I want to get it out december. all right. that's good. It's common it's common. I just wanna put on the spot. That's all other than that if you have any questions. Comments death threats marriage proposals optimism vaccine at gmail.com at is standing by hitting refresh waiting for your emails. Also you can tweet at us at optimism vaccine and Yeah just say hi drop in. Say hello with that. Is that wraps things up so jake. Final word is yours. I'm jake i like. I'm jake ma. Ma ma mama mama mama. Mama didn't even used for that. I had it not my mom and.

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S1:E20  Metallica (debate)

Soundrise Podcast

1:19:22 hr | 1 year ago

S1:E20 Metallica (debate)

"You're listening to sunrise Rice podcast show hosted by Alex in Serbia and Vlada in Poland. Each week we cover different artists tour band and engage in an open and spontaneous debate and discussion about specific parts of their discography. Our goal is to expand their musical horizons and cover A great range of artists and styles financing patron Patriot Dot com slash stanway sport and social media at sound way spot. Hello everyone. Welcome to another edition of Sound Rice podcast. Hi, Alex scholar you doing today. Hello Blood I'm doing good struggling a bit with my allergies guys. Excuse me for my from my voice It's another morning episode Lada. How To feel about that? I feel great to be honest. I think it's the right idea to get this done in the morning while still full of energy. So today speaking of energy. Today we're talking about a very energetic band and a very famous one at that. So, Alex, would you revealed to our listeners who we're talking about today? Yes This band is a legendary legendary ban. You know they are one of the most influential here influential bands in their category and that's metallica. Now bladder I know that if someone would try to find, you would probably find you at metallica concert. That's your second home I guess. So can you share a bit? Bits of information about this band. Yeah. So I guess there's not much new we can say about METALLICA but. For those who may not be familiar with all the details the band was founded in La in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty one and they recorded their first demo nineteen, eighty, two One of the first deterioration of the band featured none other than Davis stain who went on to form another formidable act megadeath. There's a lot of. riot between Davis Stadium, the tally about the way he was kicked out of the band. Of following his departure Hamid joined the band to form the classic line up of Lars Ulrich. Jane's Cockfield Kirk Hammett and cliff Burton. So this lineup recorded three records which are now widely considered. Some of the greatest classics of the heavy metal genre. What's really special about metallic is that in many ways they helped define shape the thrash metal journ Rut even though nowadays, you'll find a lot of detractors among the thrash metal fans. Originally, metallica were true trailblazers genre. However in Nineteen, ninety, one, the band really hit the big time with their. Multi million selling album the blackout album more simply the self titled Album Metallica with the infamous black cover. This album was more streamlined compared to the previous work and sound somewhat more commercial, which led to these guy. Huge sales numbers. ever since Dan metallica has been somewhat controversial within the metal community some people think of them as sellouts as. The band didn't really stick with metal with a full integrity. it did not help the band went through several different. changes throughout the years experimenting with different sounds in different genres one may add especially load and reload albums and Dan the the much maligned saint anger that came out in two, thousand and three. On nowadays, Metallica some trying to reconnect with their roots even though their latest efforts. Kinda sound like a cross between different things they were doing at different points of their career and of course, they're still. Widely popularity still attract millions and millions of people to their concerts as they still sell millions of albums but not not nevertheless, there's still a lot of controversy when he comes to the SAXO. Alex. today, we're going to have a slightly different approach. We're GONNA try to talk about their entire discography, not album, but album, but more in in in the sense that we will try to talk about their two different areas before the blackout album after the black album, and we could kind of say that one of us. Is More leaning towards the early era in the other one leans more towards the late stage of the band's career saw Alyx let's start. With the question of what is your favorite metallica album? That's what I really want to know. Okay. Good question and not an easy one I'm kind of torn between load and say Tanger. even though both albums offer different. Different stuff. So to say different energy in songwriting. Now the the pads of the metal heads around the world have just popped because somebody actually said, the saint anger might be their favorite metallica record. Yes yes. Dear listeners I know that this is controversial in to add a bit of spice. I really liked the scenario drama Saint Tangere and I'm really Oh, come on giving your heart attack the slayer drum of own things on that record. That's what you like. Now I just want to point it out because I guess that a lot of. Opposition towards Saint Anger really dislikes that I really liked their drumming there I think it's really stands out makes the IT makes this album sound iconic because of the drumming? connick about it. I can just hang on the Fox Mike Kitchen and get the same sound. Yes and that's really boost the energy and a lot of have to say actually have to ask you have you ever. Heard that drum live on on metallica concerts. No actually nowadays wounded, Du-, saint angry songs they sound much better live and they don't have that great thing sound going on I recently heard frantic the last time I saw them live which was a year ago or less even. Before this horrible cove, it's time and they did a fantastic version of frantic. And guess what it did not include that horrible snare drum any category. Of Any Guitar Solo. So what about that the complete? Guitar Solos on Saint Anger. I really like it that way I'm not gonNA lie guys I really enjoy the album as it is with all these these different sounds with the absence of Solos. This is this is what Saint Saint Anger is and it has nothing to do with those Melodic Guitar Solos did you can hear on let's say and justice for all. It is about being consistent being concept with your punch she sounds so. That's what I like about saint taker. That's why it's kind of competes for the first spot on my list, but I have to say. At the end of the day, I think load is a better album and it's it's surely deserves my number one spot. Songs like bleeding me King nothing like from start to finish a ton of great strikes also select the album cover and I think this marked the difference air this is the first. Album that was pretty much different compared to the previous one previous ones. I that I want to point out is. James Capsules vocals. I think he sounded much better. Well, not much better but significantly better. No obviously better because I think that. With these older albums, she was leaning towards screaming vocals while and load. He was kind of more. Let's say grew being deep in rolling. Would you agree with that letter? Yet. Definitely. Change. His vocal style is evident past the black album and even on the black album you can tell. What's interesting about that time is that he started taking singing lessons around the time of the blackout album So yeah. I mean I kinda like James you know different versions. I think he's he's a phenomenal vocalist in terms of Kalki expresses himself. He may not have a great range, but he has a lot of power a lot of growth which really enjoy hearing anything especially in the load. Like. Oh, bad ASCII sounds like disorder take no prisoners attitude and he sounds really sounds January you know the thing is. This might be controversial thing to say, but as much as they love his vocals in the early albums and though that style of singing really fits the early albums. Perfect League I. Think he sounds more genuine low I. think that's who he really is. You know when he sings songs like how's the Jack built which is about his own personal demons fighting with alcoholism you can tell you know. He's digging deep into his soul, and this is something that's kind of absent from some of the early stuff even though the early stuff also cuts personal stuff don't get me wrong especially sons, leagues dyers, Eve when he addresses all the trauma that he had dealing with his parents. But Yeah I think there's something to that. To that style, which is present a load. Do you think that songwriting on both load and Sega were. Let's say realistic and more I dunno human less poetic and less artistic would agree with that. Well I would definitely say that the early albums had a much more elaborate style of writing and they were. Hiding. There's you know sometimes this might be a weird comparison but when I think about the early albums like muster of puppets arrived the lightning or and justice for. A. Kind of reminds me of the way. Pink Floyd made albums so elaborate. So rich in detail. The lyrics are very well thought out like everything is just. Everything is so. Intricate. But in a way that's very accessible. You know unlike so many other metal bands of the era metallica new to be both Artie and accessible, which I think elevating them up of all other acts and then with load and saint anger it's more primal. It's more disputing motion rather than a seeking some. Great Artistic Heights even though there are exceptions to that rule as well. I mean unloaded you've got sons like the outflow torn. Bleeding me which I find to be some of the great south guys ever did and they're also nine minutes affects. rich in musical detail just in a different way. So yeah, I kinda agree with your assessment there but speaking of that, what do you think about the early album? So defendants to correct the, you really lean more towards the late period with this quite unusual in very rare for metallica fans. So what do you think about those early records starting with killing mall? Dan Ending within justice for let's say black album as a transitional point. Okay before a jump to the older albums album. Sorry I just want to point out I. Really Liked Jason News dead as a person and I think that he Would he was if Metallica I think he was the backbone of that and really provided the soul of Metallica even though I think he's basically was pretty much underestimated. He has some really good rips on load but. I think that he wasn't featured enough but that's another story. Let me get back to your question. So the early stuff. Okay. So kill him all. I remember Lada. That when we talked about metallica couple of years ago. You said Oh killing molly's down the everybody likes and I think that killer mole is yes it is accessible and to me it sounds like. punk music meets heavy metal. I really actually what it is. Yes. And that's really cool I I. I liked the sound I like the album cover. One of the best metallica album covers in my opinion. And I really get kind of angry wet whenever a see some. Edits when someone is trying to make Caen M- of this album career because it's so good and original. So kill him all good album nothing nothing major to complain about here. Then the other albums are kind of going to. Step forward a step ahead. So to say, the right lighting has legend album artwork, but it has a different approach and I think ride the lightning is where they're legendary status starts to grow what do you think? Well. I would definitely say kill him. All is where the legend begins because I think killing a record that while imperfect obviously recorded by. A very young inexperienced band clean much defined the genre of thrash metal. I think that they combine that punk sensibility with their new wave of British heavy metal influences like diamond had do this priest. Stuff like that, and that's where they forced the new sound and then they took that formula and did something even grand there with it on ride the lightning where their songwriting became even more mature A. The compositions became more detailed, less punk oriented, but still pretty aggressive. they added a ballot which at that time interestingly enough for so many metal fans that dine that was considered a out adding a balance to your album. You know a fake to black is the ballot question such a hunting leaf beautiful tune about suicide. And the Beautiful Song Yeah and they just took it up up a notch with that one and then just kind of continued with monster and justice for all I. Think it's really hard to tell. Of It's really hard to to choose one. Out of those three records there so consistent and so so great. So it's only a matter of your own mood even though I kind of gravitate. Towards justice for role. But on some days when listen to master of puppets I really think it's The most immaculate heavy metal recording of all time just. It almost sounds other worldly what they did a monster. Just step at was feared the sound. Doesn't sound human. It sounds like it's made somewhere else outside this realm of existence, and that's why sometimes when you listen to the black, Gal more load, you may feel very disappointed by comparison. If. You just listen to something. They must've puppets it. So at Picking Grant and otherworldly Dad. That other stuff to sounds kind of plane by comparison and I think that's wrong. But that's call. You may feel if you listen to them back to back, I just think that. These lake directors, cab different sort of a strengths going for them, and these tanks are not any less important than what they had going in the early in the early years but still that kind of. Magnitude, I think is something unmatched by most metal bands? What do you think about that? I think that's a fair and objective statement that I think that you are not letting your emotions in your personal taste. Get in the way. yes, and speaking of diamond can you? You mentioned that bans? Let's not forget the grades cover done by metallic of Song Am I evil I think that's one of the first songs that I heard from killing mall. But obviously, we all know seek and destroy and with lash in other. Correct you bit because Ama- evil wasn't originally and killing mall but there are some additions where it's a bonus track. So yeah, it was recorded around that time I think after killing mole was recorded any came out originally on creeping death EP. So this was the time around. Ride the lightning or maybe between the two records. Okay thanks. that led I wanNA. Ask You about. And Justice for all. Now, you know that I'm a Bass I in the I always focus on baselines. I love that album because of its energy because of thunder guitar because also of the fast pace drumming. But how do you explain an? How'd you get over the fact that the base is so quiet on this on this album you know knowing that Jason Newstead a very cool and. member Metallica was their CUD explained that Well I mean there are many versions about this The most common belief is that the band was still so grief stricken after the death cliff Berkeley Nineteen, eighty, six, they're They're great. Bass player, the guy. The Guy was more than just a mere band member who had a lot of knowledge about music theory was able to contribute to songs in a major way. For example, for whom the bell tells, you can hear his wonderful line at the beginning kind of drives the song forward. And most importantly, he was their friend and they were a very tight knit group. So when this happened. They, almost didn't go on the almost refused to carry on. But then. After some considerations they decided to get a new bass player. Jason. Really wanted badly Jason when they're fully prepared he he managed to get Their set lists somewhere in learn every song every detail. and. They saw that this this guy was willing to give everything for this band and in mind you, it's really important to point out the Jason used prior to joining Metallica was the leader of another really good heavy metal, act flotsam, and Jetsam. So he left the spanned even though they were doing relatively speaking they were doing well, not like Metallica not even close. and. He was willing to give up that position of of creativity of leading the ban of being able to call the shots. To just be another Guy Metallica that's important. METALLICA was the metal fans back down I. Think. So the theory goes did they deliberately muted his base as a sort of trying to clip burke now, the van members still denied is to this day and they say they the problem was that the ears were shot from the concerts in they couldn't hear well in the mixing room. So they kept putting travel up and the base down, and as a result, you have the record where the basis barely audible. Which I think is a shame though as a kid when I listen to this record when I listen to injustice squirrel I, didn't really pay attention to the mix to the base or anything. I just took the music as it was and it was amazing. That way in a one thing I have to point out is it had this incredibly haunting sound which now in retrospect I see is the direct result of the mix of the record. So I'm not really sure that a different mix with improve the record I think I really love it. The way is now, of course, I think I would like to hear it with more base or with the different mix just out of curiosity. But this album to me's perfection. Just the band at the height of its power. James Vocal, severely came into their own. Because this really intense. Sound, the his scruffy vocals truly dominate here. Kirk his never had better solos. Than, justice for all. Most importantly, this is the most political of that career and it just shows this. With. Without, any will to compromise with anything. which. I think is directly. Responsible for fans being so disappointed with the later output because they felt that that banned from justice for all the band was willing to. Challenge the world was kind of gone. You know the the day, the band members sort of went soft by comparison. And the risks of justice for all just out of this world have to save James Capital is a true riff master. What do you say about that? I have to say and justice for all his probably my favorites. Old. SC allowed them not sure if it's injustice for all or kill him all. The melodic and it's yet ethical aspects of and justice for all is amazing and. As. We sit here record. It's August twenty four. Tomorrow and Justice for all starting thirty two years old. So happy thirty second birthday to injustice for all. I want to ask you about the drumming that I mentioned vowed to tweet talked about a lot in this episode. A lot of a lot of people out there allowed music fans say that large only as a mediocre drummer or if you take him out of metallic wouldn't be able to produce any think what do you think about his drumming skillset? Look I think. People, are. Exaggerating at times because loss to me sounds like a fairly competent drummer. On those early records, he sounds damn amazing on muster puppets, for example, I think. It's quite possible that over the years his drumming skills have some deteriorated and. Maybe, that's what rubs the fans the runway especially when compared. With a compared the drumming on metallica albums. To the drumming other heavy metal albums by slayer megadeath. Kind of leads something to be desired especially these last few records. But I think people have to take into consideration Lars. Or side James Is. One of the troop. Masterminds of Hispanics than that. And? I? Think. I think. If you take Lars Outta METALLICA. You won't have Metallica so simple as that. I think. There's no band without him or James Now in my opinion, this is my personal view is the James is the one who propelled the band to the star Dumb I think that without James Larson get anywhere but that being said, he probably can a massive role. In shaping the sound the making sure. That the songs are structured in a certain way. So I wouldn't underestimate him and I think he's still fairly good drummer when I see them live I really don't mind his drumming so much except one time in Bellevue when they played live I was kind of close to the stage and never ever in my life have I experienced this. His drum. So loud so loud. It's literally made me physically sick. Literally. Ruined the music a bit for anything that shows that the alarm Mike have a huge ego issue. I think nobody needs to be that loud you know. Yes, because the drums are you know always the loud distinction, but if it's allowed to kind of ruins the experience definitely. I really think he's a bedroom I think he perfectly suits metallica and as I said, I really liked the innovation of that hot. Drum that POPs nails. Elise please will lose. All kind of. All all integrity, we have masks so far throughout all these episodes you just GonNa. Throw it in the waves with your ridiculous statements about Lars. pod sounding drums. Look I'm in the minority here and I'm not a I'm not ashamed of it because it's it's something that always stands out always also Old Release. Yeah. Gone Gone. I'm sorry dear listeners I. Think at this moment, we have nothing else to do but the shutdown our podcast. So I apologize for the travesty that was being said in this episode and will try to bounce back in recover from this somehow. I can sense metallica fans throwing stones at us because of all days blessed statements from me. Okay. My final word about the. First Aero. So to say, of METALLICA, so I wasn't a huge fan of. The sounds especially the the base and not talking about the Solos. You know I really liked the melodic elements but when it comes to mixing goods and and the final outcome edges. Wasn't really my cup of tea compared to load and saint anger and also reload. and. I thought the vocals were better in ninety S in. METALLICA. So But I would like to wrap this up with your opinion on the black cow them so that the transition album Aleka. Well but I. Forgot to talk about. The Big One. The big album you know we we mentioned it but I. Didn't really get your opinion about muster puppets because that's the one where people go crazy with people think that. That's the album that makes people believe metallica is the greatest metal band of old time. So what's your take on that one? Oh yes. Sorry. I forgot that A. Case, semester puppets. Feature some of the greatest metallica songs you know orientation battery also the title track. Mestre puppets. I Dunno I. It really kind of associated with the metal genre leg. I would always single of this album is one of the greatest. But if I would to compared to my music taste, it wouldn't be one of the greatest I have to save letter to put shortly is the listeners another travesty that was said here. So again you have to, you have to forgive my dear colleague. He. He just up in another area in the. Obviously. This Louis Battle Right. I mean, he's the guy who likes corn. What else can we say? Oh. That's would be a really good question Do we have fans that like both metallica and corn and by Metallica I mean these old albums. On after there yeah. Probably. So if you're out there, you like both corn and metallic old stuff, let us knowing the comments you know let's let's break the stereotypes. Let's let's show people. You can enjoy all these things you know. There's no shame in it. There's no shame. It's just this coq host of mine called blotted likes to. Separate people and accused him of being. Traders and stuff yes. Not that if you just you just lack the sensibility on the stand the magnitude of the early. METALLICA, and for some reason, you prefer listening to people banging on cooking pots. Well. That was a good description I have to say. Okay. So Beck, semester puppets. And with all these, this is the case with all these own albums I can listen to them and I can show respect and see the originality and the. Authentic stuff. But I can't really go crazy about this. For the life of me, I just don't get it. I just don't understand how anyone can be different to this kind of music I think those. Early records especially. The ones from ride the lightning to injustice parole. Are such. Epic pieces of music that. Even this day to this day I still get chills when listen to these records even pretty much know them by heart and I've listened to them for. More than twenty years now I think I listened to justice for all for the first time back in Nineteen ninety-four. So that's a long period of time and it. Still gives me the same feeling. So just don't understand or a muster of puppets. No these sounds like the disposable heroes or Leper Messiah like this something so. So deep in the Sun. Solich. Just find it. So difficult to find any other metal bands the game similar field may be death I think even though I, didn't really grow up with death so I don't have that kind of attachment. But. Just, these albums are. Unique truly. Unique. Yes, they are and mine. I'm not indifferent I'm just not. Blown away I have to say now someone would consider that to be indifferent or. Ignoring the the true aspect or under appreciating these hours but. You know at a at the end of the day it's all about our personal taste of right. Well, yeah, but you know. You can only go so far with personal taste. But okay, let's let's stop joking around with this stuff I mean, of course I guess. For some people it just it just doesn't cut it the same way. But to me, it's interesting to talk about these more controversial album because we. When it comes to muster puppets or when it comes to ride the lightning I think most people will agree that these are great records. I don't think many people will actually playing these are bad in any way right. So what about the black albums as you already mentioned? The black album in my opinion. Is is not a step forward for Metallica, but it was a step that maybe they needed to make that time and I think as much as commercially came off. It was still of a wonderful record when when I was a kid I didn't really make a difference between this record and the earlier ones to meet was all the same kind of Metallica that loved and enjoyed. It was only when load came out that I was not confusion I didn't know what to make of it as a thirteen year old I think or twelve year old. Twelve year old. Yes. When load came out I was so disappointed because that wasn't my metallica was sounded like a completely different band but with black album. Yeah that's the same ITALICA. Did you hear on muster puppy? They're just more streamlined, maybe more catchy throwing in a couple of ballads but the is generally the same and I don't understand why fans make such a big fuss about it. Certainly fans just enjoying the music. It's a great record great rates. Maybe not as big because the previous ones. Who Cares I mean? It's still a great record, right? Absolutely. I totally agree. It was a slight step. Back. Compared to the previous almonds in my eyes I didn't know it was as they said, it was a transitional album and I couldn't quite pick the side here. You know it was difficult for me because I'm more of. second-stage. METALLICA fence. So to say, so this was slightly confusing, but you can't really ignore. The all the grades tracks here. Now, I WANNA ask you but you have to probably most well known song skew metallica entertainment and nothing else matters. Would you classify them as the best tracks on this album? No, no no. Not even have the see a both tracks I really enjoy them. They've been overplayed death but when A. Concert I really enjoy them in such setting. When I'm at home I, don't really want to hear them so much to be fair but to me, the real highlights of the black album are the deeper cuts. Sounds like. Co Lear though the God that failed the garlic failed such a personal song by James, and that's why I don't understand these accusations of the band selling out and stuff like that. When a band sells out, the don't write personal stuff. They don't write the stuff where they put themselves out to the world where the expose their own weaknesses. Let's say or their own traumas psychological issues. Addictions that's not what Commercial. Bands do so in my opinion metallica never really sold out in that way that sense they might have sold out in some other ways in terms of like being this big commercial entity that is soon going to turn into kiss and start. Start selling like a caskets with metallica written on or some shit like that. You know. So but no, I think these songs come from the same place that the earlier material came from. But maybe even from the more mature place in some instances, like with the God that failed were the unforgiven which I feel very personal songs. Yes. You just mentioned the forget. What do you think about the fact that the unforgiven has also The, forgiven to and unforgiven three like that's a really interesting continuation for a single song. The I really wonder how. About, because I always thought of the unforgiving to as some kind of reversal, the unforgiven one like he has a lot similar musical elements really enjoyed it. When it came out, I remember being super stoked about that song. But then the unforgiven three also south. Quite good. Especially, this new version they did with the orchestra. On sm too. So check data out when it's more available I think it's already available. So check that out but I don't know I really wonder how that came about what James was thinking whether it was an accident. In other way he stumbled upon the second song then maybe when they were doing death magnetic dig Kinda wanted to. Reverse. The. Clock. Go back in time. So I think they they wanted to revisit some of the moments in their catalog. So maybe that's why they did the third one. But yeah. Blackout album I think as a previously said, has a lot of personal stuff and. It's more polished has that Bob rock production but I don't think they sold out they think that they felt they needed to make a move towards more streamlined sound because they were kind of lost the those Progressive Rock. riffs that the and injustice for all contains and. I think that's what I like about metallica their willingness to change from one record to another. Do. You think that being able to switch between sounds and establish these different eras is something that characterizes a great band. You know if you're going to repeat the same formula for decades. You're basically not that talented which agree with me a lot of. Offer sure I. I wouldn't say that they're not talented if they repeat themselves but yeah, I mean the great bands. The legendary band the old went through different stages and change this sound and challenge their fans challenge the perception that existed about. You know. The Beatles changed so much within the span of seven years, and that's one of the things with. People still talk about you know how the Beatles were able to do so much with inserts shorts fab. So really don't understand the criticism metallica gets for changing their sound. Especially, load. I mean look at all these fears of there's like slayer in mega that thing they will never capable. Of pulling off the same trick. And I think that would make Talladega the greatest out of the bunch. And the. Few disagree. Please let me know why I'm wrong. So load you said might be your favorite metallic. Also think of load in very high regard, I think. It's one of those records that truly challenged listener because it's such a dramatic change when I was a kid I hated it for that reason because I thought my old metallica was gone but then with years really embraced it because there's so much to like about this record as previously mentioned the epics like bleeding me the upload torn. The, House that Jack built where Dang stocks, his personal demons, his fight with alcoholism balanced like hero of the day. So wonderfully crafted Mama's said the country ballot again, a very personal some clear it also great Shrek. Yeah. The band really branched out they were willing to try something new and I bet my life they knew they were going to have a huge backlash because they could have easily made black album part two and pleased everyone. And people say, oh well. But at that time thrash metal wasn't very fashionable anymore people didn't care about it. Yeah. But this was metallic and that time there was such major stars that they could have released anything. Any would have salt and they could have easily stuck with the same formula. So I don't think they did this to sell out I. think that James was probably under the influence of corrosion of conformity. Another great band, a band that were always friends with Metallica and I think he wanted to go in that direction do some stuff that's more raw has more of that stone, her garage rock, feel and But I think they did a spectacularly to this day. I. Don't understand people who claimed all load is too long or. They should live like. They should have taken the best tracks from load and reload than released one record. No. I think load is perfectly fine. The way it is I don't think it has. Any major filler moments I most of the songs are really amazing to listen to. So. Yeah. I I called it in a very, very high regard. I think it's one of maybe top three or four metallica records. Certainly better than the black album in my book. Definitely Oh finally, we can agree on something. as I said, I don't really have much that you're to such a good. Album leaning more towards some. Rocks. Rock sound so to say, but still keeping the the medal element. Also the lyrics and. Singing. You Know I. Wouldn't call it a metal album I. didn't think that matters. I think these kinds of journal labels only matter to people who are too narrow minded. Doesn't have to be meddled to be great. I don't know if I would classify load is meddle album, but I don't care because it's still a great record. In terms of sounds day meaning it would be easier to kind of classified stuff. But as you said, it's not the name that matter suits. It's the contents. Did. The actual songs here But the next album reload some say that it's just a continuation. It's it's a copy offload. What do you think about people that are saying that? I mean I. Think they're right because just. The leftover tracks from the sessions basically load number two some great tracks there though. The memory remains still a fan favorite after all these years. Every time when they do it live people just go insane. So I just got this time it like they trashed all these songs trashed all these records and then Bam or when they see metallic alive and they go into the memory remains everyone is going crazy when they go into frantic everyone is going crazy. So please make up your mind people do these records or not. Okay what what do you say? I. I'm not studying to question whether all these. Critical and. Moaning fans actually go to concerts. I'm pretty sure they do maybe not all of them, but I'm fairly certain most of them do and I think I mean I don't WanNa be harsh think I understand disappointment and criticism because I-. I was also very disappointed when I was younger and. I kind of. came to terms with the fact that I will never get another justice for all and master of puppets, and they should just enjoy these albums for what they are not expect any. Any more music like that because you can't expect the ban to repeat themselves unless ACDC not going to get it back. And who wants to ban like ACDC as great as they are no, I just don't get very fast. You work because they just expect the same old. You know like if I want to listen to ACDC our revisit the seventies records. So I think there's that and I understand some of the criticism, a lot of it is justified. But sometimes I think that there is some kind of schizophrenia going on because the same people who criticized psalms they go insane when the hear them in concert. Yes, I guess that's the question that we wanted to ask all the listeners that we have a the metal fans and Metallica fans here. Or Right. So we'll be going to the twenty first century. Vlada. With the infamous saint anger album. Okay, so I I want to say again from start to finish. A ton of great tracks frantic was the first of Saint of truck that I ever heard. followed by the title track same Tanger and. What are we really liked about it is. It's all about the emotion and the anger and the aggression about this album, which I really like in which is something that's I generally. Take from metal music ever I need that kind of energy I just listened to metal music or some other heavy. Types of music. So to say and I remember also the The music video frantic, it's so good. So personal. You know do whatever the music video letter. Oh Yeah. Of course I mean I've seen so many times. But ahead to say about saint anger that. I do understand the Katryn that it gets primarily because of that annoying. Pot Sound. You know it's so good. It's not good. Okay and another thing is. A thought a lot about this record. And the humor might main issues with this album. I evolved. At some points the sound too much like the new metal albums of the time of new metal are are artists. and. I just don't understand with trying to pander to the new audiences. Were they trying to sell out with this war? Now? That's a genuine question here because or were they just trying to incorporate these sounds because they genuinely like them That's one question I had. I'm not sure they don't exactly sound like those new metal bands. Thank Scott, because that's a redeeming factor. And the music is not that down. To to sound like limb biscuit or something. So thanks got for that. Another thing that strikes me is that I feel this record is unfinished. I feel that. If. You look at the film, some kind of monster. If you watch that film, you will see how many problems they cut the deal with at that time when James we have in everything in him being on a very. Carefully monitored schedule not being able to maybe fully dedicated himself to the record. I think that that's probably why the record kind of comes across as being some unfinished. Tracks here that I think the bank could easily do away with like invisible kid that. Goes Nowhere. It, just like based on one simple riff. The lyrics are kind of great thing A. Doesn't have much going for it. Dirty windows somewhat better of Gay Kinda. Catchy. Feel feels bit unfinished a bit. Well to unpolished even though it gets, that's the point of this record to be unpolished but. not this extent because there are other tracks hear that sound. Awesome and fully realized that have such a great emotional resonance the. Frantic as you mentioned now, some people not the lyrics. My lifestyle that style whatever I think. These lyrics might be a bit. might be a bit crane jeep at the same time a leg, the role emotion behind them I like James's vocals again. I think he's very powerful on some of these tracks and. I love that kind of bad ass attitude that he adopted on the low album this one to. Sanger also great track rate title track the famous Alcatraz Prison video was no the saint. Quentin Story Alcatraz closed with Saint Quentin Just amazing. Again, great riffs very melodic but he has some really awkward hip hop kind of backing vocals which I felt was also this kind of flirtation with NU metal bands, completely unnecessary complete despoiling the whole thing when I first heard that you know that part flush out flush out just look the Halla they doing what the hell. Doing That was my first thought I just couldn't for the life of me understand why ban so much integrity in such talent. Would include something. So Pan out in their sons. So they're stack you know it's still a great track some kind of monster, very good tracks, but my personal favorite is unnamed feeling. I think that's one of METALLICA's best tracks. Again, I, love those personal James Scott the Jews where he talks about his personal demons this time he sings about anxiety and if you've ever had experienced winning Sidoti, you can totally relate to this song. He perfectly captures that moment that feeling of anxiety and for that track alone I'd never ever trash this album and I think this album has some other great stuff going on for it and it's kind unfairly maligned by a lot of people but it probably has to do with those bad things that I listed that people can see beyond that What's your take on that? You remember when we covered corn in one of our episodes and we talked about all these. self-deprecation lyrics being so anxious and unhappy with yourself. That's that's you know that's the topic of this albumin. You're totally right. I. Think they drew some influence from those new metal bands. I mean, let's not forget. This album was released in two thousand three. So. The beginning of the two thousand was a new metal periods and live in metallica influence from new metal bands when they are like. They're so below that's what I don't get it. I think that they kind of played the. Risk, cut with reload and reload, and then want to go back and play it safe in a way. But is it was this playing safe? That's also good question because this is so unlike anything. The band is ever done before since. Playing safe in the sense of following the trends at that time Valetta. Okay but that that does justifies criticism in my mind and that's the low point of this record. But. Some of the songwriting and ideas and the Roy motion and James's performance really safes it. I think and I honestly feel that people who didn't like it back then should go and revisit it and give it another chance listened to it with with a more open mind tried to get past some of these flaws. Yes exactly. Okay. Blind I'm What went to also point out here. This is the album. This appeared actually. Where when they introduced their new basis now, Bob Rock played bass for this album but after releasing saint anger, their current bassist Rob Trujillo was card so that Kinda marked you. When it comes to their bass sound what he thinks so far is rupture hero been Heskey been a good replacement for Jason. Newstead. To heal was a great replacement mainly because of his chops because of his instrumental prowess. People still claim cliff Burton was the best Bass player they had and from the creative standpoint probably. But I think. To heal might be the guy with the best jobs. Now that's questionable but he might be i. mean he he's really stunning in his playing style and also he's such a great. Music Aficionado he did a documentary about Jaakko pistorious. For example, he's son who is now only what thirteen fourteen years old he already played with corn live. So I mean that tells you everything to this guy is a phenomenal musician and a great human being going by all accounts. So definitely a good replacement for Jason even though it's kind of hard act replaced Jason's energy and presence live on stage in a really regret never seen metallica with Jason. Yeah. That's what I want to say here I mean Jason News that might be controversial here but Jason News was basically TALLEC. In a notch show I think that he was truly the backbone of that band when he was there. Maybe Kinda like. Not The backbone maybe the soul of the van you know like they. He was the one. We used the live performances with so much energy and so much Vegan and I think that's something that they kinda lost a bid with his departure but what they gained into here was great professionalism. Great. Great instrumentalist. So I. Think it's a win win situation for metallica anyway. They're doing fine without Jason, and they probably regret the way things ended between them but maybe it was also good for Jason to leave Metallica. We see that nowadays, he doesn't do much because he has some physical. Issues. Some health issues that are basically consequence of his years with. METALLICA. So there is that too it's not that easy to be METALLICA. Yes exactly. Okay. My kinda final say about Jason is sorry guys. I may sound like a fan boy. But a really rates. Jason really likes these backing vocals and I want to ask you a lot of personally so knowing. You know all the stuff that happened between Metallica Jason. You know when when he was about to depart the Pant, do you think that Metallica did Jason Wrong after all these years? I don't know. It's so hard to talk about these things when you're not really privy to what was going on maybe they did. They didn't maybe they just had a certain way of doing things that he didn't want to go along with I don't know it's I. Guess It's not something you can talk about south not having the experience of being such a big fans and having so much fame to deal with and so much pressure I I'm certain METALLICA, had too much pressure to deal with. And some of it is their own fault the whole napster fiasco. But Let's just leave it that I wouldn't I wouldn't command. It seems like. Both Jason and the band. Are Still on good terms. So that's really important here. Okay one interesting question for you. Do you think that metallica would ever release Saint Anger with? Jason in the lineup? probably but. Yeah. I think it would have probably sounded similar. And I think. At this point, Jason just had to go with whatever other guys wanted. Meaning large. In James. So I think that's why he was so happy because he wasn't able to have any creative output and. That's why he wanted to pursue his own project, which is why they split up. You know he wanted to do things with his band echo brain, but the band members felt that. They had this rule that no member of METALLICA should have their own projects that they should all fully dedicate their creativity to metallica but then on the other hand keeping really getting enough space to express himself within the band. So that's why you got the. Split. And Yeah I think they would have released something similar may be somewhat different but. Pretty much similar sounding album. Yup. Okay So. We're preaching the final two records released by METALLICA. So far louder now that we're connectik. To be honest before I listen to the album, it was really a fan of the album artwork. So I had kind of high expectations and a positive prejudice so to say. But to be honest, the whole album. Safe to say that it was. Disappointing. Sorry to say that to to all to all the metallic offense especially, the younger ones you know I still see young metallic fans rocking the death magnetic t shirts. But I don't know I. Just Kinda felt that they weren't quite sure what they were doing here. Well just didn't sound like your favorite. Kitchen utensils but. No but to be more serious. I think. Back leak came out. The band was kind of. Getting everyone stoked for the record that would go back to their early. Period that would be sort of and justice for all volumes to everyone was prepared for that record they even. The even fire, Bob Brock and Hyde Rick Rubin. One of the greatest producer producers of all time the guy worked with slayer on their classic raining blood. So people were very excited about getting metallica back to their thrash roots and so on. And then their record came out. In some people losing. All METALLICA's black Blah Blah but it wasn't quite true right? I think that it's an interesting fusion of some of these thrash elements with. More. Alot. Reload era elements and. A good record at that not a bad record by any measure, a kind of a grower. Not. As immediate some other stuff but I really enjoy it nowadays when I, put it back on and really enjoy it. When I I listen to it, I was kind very critical of it. And just kept looking for flaws. A wasn't too happy about it and. I even felt saint anger was better because it sounded more real more authentic. This sounded like the band is trying to patch up. An album that's supposed to sound like a classic metallica album without actually you know putting in their heart and soul into it and I think that's why the album suffers a lot. From sounding a bit Solis at times a bit A. Bit Too safe too contrived. But the redeeming fact is that some of the riffs the James came up with are awesome and Kirk. Solos are very nice. Addition to this especially after the absence of any Solos and Saint Anger. So yeah, a good record solid record, but some with forgettable by comparison to other stuff. I totally agree. DOC have much to add here. obviously I think most of us would agree that the standard track here is the unforgiven the three. But the rest of the album just not nuts great. Good. Know about the standup track there's some good shacks here like That was just your life kind of reminiscent of blackened. I really enjoy then. Maybe the data to. Day that never comes. No, but I kinda enjoy all of the tracks more or less just feel like they didn't really. I just feel the band was in genuine. That's all I. Like they were trying to pander to their old fans. To their true heavy metal fans. The kind of failed that also the album was horribly makes. It sounds distorted. It sounds too loud. It's difficult to listen to. That's another reason why sometimes fans don't don't really like it so much. Yes. We kept to mention that after being released by Elektra for twenty plus years with that magnetic day went with. Warner brothers. Yeah That played any role I think that They were just trying to recapture the glory days and kind of failed. But, still released a good piece of music. Let's let's be frank about that. It's not a bad record just lacks kind of create this park that you had a load, for example or. Or even the blackout album master of puppets any of this stuff this was more like Metallica by numbers. Wells have lot of Wilson okay. And now, finally, the latest released from two thousand sixteen hardwired to self destruct. Shipping with your thoughts. I think. Somewhat better than death magnetic. I liked the production this it sounds better it of breeds and it's a really long record. So. Let's see the tracks I like how they kind of jump from different styles. From, one style to another like atlas rise something that could have been recorded by iron maiden. then. You have the card wires of kind of hearkens back to kill them all and. You have dream no more which is like the thing that should not be part to very lovecraft Ian. I really loved that they go through all these different ideas. I feel like they were much more relaxed doing this record. Again. It may not sound like super personal. There aren't many moments like death which I really miss I, Miss, James Getting more personal and more. You know I missed those songs that you can truly densify with on some levels but these are all good tracks you can mankind will it's a load like riffing which? I have to say live these songs sounded really good. I really enjoyed them. Live speed out the bone is the one dragged everybody was talking about when this came out because it really went back to thrash roots. And it was such a great. Long. Almost old style metallic attract but. Everything works on this track and. Apparently. They were really struggling into flame. The big thing wasn't into flame like the big deal before the album was released. Yeah. Yeah. But then when the record came out, spill out, the bone was the track everybody talked about another cool thing that they did here was the day they recorded a video for each track on the record. So, the masters spent a lot of money on that. But it was nice to see all these videos suit was kind of an event of sorts this record and it's such. It was better than the previous one. And it's also a bit of a grower at first. I was Kinda confused by it but once they. Once, they dug into it after the third or fourth listen it's really sinking. I was disappointed with the leading track hardwired I. Thought it was lazy. Dodd was very generic. But then everything else following that track sounds better so. Yeah, definitely, a step forward step in the right direction. Not, the METALLICA, the glory days, but the kind of veteran band still enjoyable still willing to try out things. So yeah, definitely a thumbs up from me. Good good I told agree was an upgrade compared to death magnetic and I can say that I enjoy listening to this album. Into aflame highlight but also other tracks as well. like M. I. Savage or mankind kind. So. Yes. It was a good direction for the band than. I actually wanted to ask you if they play some of these songs slide but I guess they do. A lot of them and they work they work especially in relation to the old material I think and the band really enjoys doing them. Yes and one thing that's interesting that I actually heard for the first time. Now, during during the recording is that they made. A music video for each track your I wouldn't really say that that's a positive thing. First of all, I S A music fan don't really. Watch music videos net that match. But this is a this is a long album. You know we have much twelve tracks year. Twelve music videos like that's that some flexing. Think. I think metallica always wants to kind of be ahead of others they have this sort of. Megalomania Cold Complex So that might be the reason why they did it kind of like the idea I like seeing these videos in getting a new video every week. I think for US spans. That's a nice fans service. So I, it cannot hurt for sure can heard. Totally agree yes and speaking of live performances Want to ask you. when you look at this current lineup and all the an all metallica costs you've been to. Who is your standout METALLICA member when it comes to engaging with the crowd? It comes to engaging with the crowd I. think they're all pretty awesome at that James of course, is my favorite also way comes to musicianship I. Think James is the backbone of the band alive. His reps are incredible he's still has it. Lars is kind of sloppy, but it's OK. He does his thing. Kirk is also bit sloppy. Sometimes I feel like he might be a bit tired of playing the same material over and over again. So that's acute problem with Metallica they don't really mixup up so much as they should because they're afraid to play load psalms, for example. The also don't do a lot of songs from Saint Anger Or. Any of these later date albums so that that's a huge problem for them live because then they end up playing mostly like black album, the tracks before the black album and as much as I love hearing them. Sometimes, it's good for the band to mix things up of it. You forgot rupture here Trujillo and I actually thought you would pick him as the the standout performer because he had. A News Corp. like. Saying decision ship is amazing but I don't know. His stage. presence. Bit. Cringe a bit cringe. It's like. Kind of. The Wannabe critical. He has his thing I really appreciate him as a Bass player I love will keep does with the music. But. He's stage antics. Just not for me, I, prefer Jason. Yes I think that rupture here. Actually, it reminds you of new metal beds I would say, no no. No No. Just. I don't know he's not like. His image. Like all these moves that he has the don't really fit cow I imagined metallica maybe because I grew up with Jason in the lineup. So it's very difficult to put that together, but he's still phenomenal musician. So I don't mind he can do whatever he wants as far as I'm concerned he's I wouldn't want them to replace him with anyone else at this point I'm not sure that I would want Jason to come back you know rob is fine. Okay Fair Enough A. Do. You have any team to head. I think that'd be covered everything about this great band. No nothing to add anything that it's important to remember why Metallica was important in the first place as much as they might. Be Rating nowadays and too big for their own. Good. There classic ban for good reason I. Think we'll be listening to metallica many decades from now. New. New Generations will be discovering them music. They will be like the Beatles of Matt Long in a way. That's a that's a strong statement right there, and I think it's completely justified. You know you have those other mental greats like Ozzy. Osbourne and Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden Judas priest but METALLICA's kind of in their league so saying the Sabbath and then everyone else. Okay. I completely the agree, I mean I'm not a huge metal. I'm not an active. Listener, but if I had to pick one band, that's that stands out at definitely be black. Sabbath. Yeah and okay. So That's pretty much it for today. Hope you enjoy this little, very short discussion that we've had. I before we leave I, just want to give a huge shoutout. All our patriots you guys are awesome Without your help, we wouldn't be able to do this and we're so grateful to have such faithful fan base. For the rest of you if you want to support us, check out our patron page. You support us with as little as one dollars a month and that would mean a lot to us, and also we would love to hear from you. If. You have any feedback whether it's negative or positive just let us now we would love to know if you're listening to us. So we are very eager to hear from you. He has. That's right. Okay. So we are about to wrap this up share the our listeners. Thanks a lot for listening to to our podcast feel free to engage with us to comment on our social media and the handle is the same sound way spot. Twitter instagram and. facebook and also what went to say here is that. we will release a special Minnesota after this episode. So we are giving you guys some bonus contact content. It is actually related to one of the former members of METALLICA. And I hope you'll enjoy that one as well So the next time all the best and seen a week right a review in then you can share it with the world in any social media platform, and then your friends see it and you can share and discover new shows together this steph instigator of pod Rev Day Podcast Review Day. Andy. From inspired money and I'm Ariel of ear buds podcast collective and cashbox. We're here to tell you everything you need to know about Padre which is on the eighth of every month of every year of every century every you get it we. Are Posting podcast reviews as part of Hashtag Padre podcast review. Day because podcasters work their butts off and deserve to know how much they've impacted your lives and you can do that through reviews. Even one star feels surprising would doesn't actually know that people are listening. Don't be a passive podcast listener writer review, Intel your favorite creator what you love about their podcast or about a specific episode and to participate, you just need to one review and we'll see you every eighth of the month padre. FDA because podcasters deserve to hear it. Hashtag. pod. Red. Day He O. D. R. D. A. Y..

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Episode 535: I Am Not A Witch (2017)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:13:41 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 535: I Am Not A Witch (2017)

"An airwave media podcast. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history all told with cinematic music and sound design subscribed for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast to hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws laws. Like jesse james and butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache. We use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Show people say could money to see this movie when they go out to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. who are Took a minute that visual while former. What are you what was set up in worship going bush between them long will settle window she income we will be true. What do you call scott. I won't by an fuel civilized injury night h so now i'm bullish the ones before quaver. They will day shula. How are you settling into new life chair. Why don't we take a picture together. They become more teeth. Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. Mike white joining me. Once again is ms sam degan. Hello and joining me for this month. Is mr spencer. Seen how. I wanna thank you for inviting me on for a whole month. African cinema concludes with the twenty seventeen film from run gano ni- yoni i am not a witch. It's the story of a little girl who is accused of being a witch shoe. Kind of just goes along with things. She's introduced to a whole witch community while being exploited by the powers-that-be. It's an interesting look at generals as zombie as well as the country's economic hardships. We will definitely be spoiling this film as we go ahead. You have been warned suspensive. When was the first time you saw. I am not a witch. And what did you think it worth been when it first was available In us 'cause the thing that did like a blend would release at tied with Streaming 'cause a friend of mine sly and boston a theater and he loved it and he talked to him about on my on my show last season this my third time seen and i'm still middle of road on it I have issues with the overall. It's the. It's a good movie that i would not say. Skip like it's still. It's still a good movie. But i there's some things we'll talk about wanting to get to it and say the first time during pre you know i saw when it came out it played at a film festival in lane and based on the very limited description that i i read. I knew i had to see it. Because i love these kinds of movies that play with coming age stories and magical realism and things like that. And it was such a surprise to me. Mostly because i think i can be curmudgeon about new movies and it was. You know nice to sort of fall in love with this one. I know i know your opinion that no real cinema has happened. Ever since the human centipede everything else is garbage. I i mean. I can go along with that with you. It's so easy to to be kind of grumpy and not specifically about human centipede but that tends to be my default that you know no good especially when it comes to genre movies. No good movies were made after nineteen eighty five or nineteen ninety or whatever the arbitrary date is so. I'm trying to get better. I had never heard of this film before until spencer. You brought it up even though it was. This is the most recent film of all the movies that we've covered only being released in two thousand seventeen so you would have thought that i might have heard of it but no not at all also one of the easier films to get. It's right out there on blu ray beautiful edition of it fantastic. So that was really nice as well and i was just. I was delighted by this film. I was intrigued and i was captivated by this movie. Especially some of the visuals are just so great from the geico when you start in that which camp. i'm putting that in air quotes and all of those women just sitting there and then when they start to howl and laugh and they've got the makeup on their face or the painting on their face. I'm like okay. What the hell is this. I am with this movie no matter what occurs and it just kept getting better and better as the film went on at least for me. I'm curious to hear spencer. Some of your issues with that. But for me i was just like i'm here for this ride and take me along the ribbons. The first time i saw it i was like wait. What's happening here so for anybody who hasn't seen it the witches in the which camp one of the elements that Neonates the director added because so which camps. I don't know if you've talked about this on past episodes for this month but which camps actually exist in places around africa zambia and especially in ghana but a detail that she added. Was this idea that the witches are tied to these giants schools with this really long ribbon and built into the dialogue. Is they talk about how things are better now. They have more freedom because they have more ribbon. It's so brilliant. Because it's just wonderful kind of satire. But it's also so heartbreaking at the same time and that's so many things about this movie is like it's funny but at the same time you're you're a little crushed but first time i saw i didn't realize it was like a dark satire as this like this is kind of doll but interesting in i of you with a neon. I bet she met reference slam and so with that in mind is like okay this issue since the humor but like dicamba for me never lands. It always falls flat. I didn't really see a lot of comedy. I mean i guess there is some dirk comedy to especially. I mean re- from the beginning when she is brought into this Police station the switch shula. Who's just this little girl who wears it. Looks like a burlap bag for address. It was a t shirt. Had hashtag booty call on it. Just the material looks a rough at that. That's why i thought it was a burlap bag. I think it's just the one thing. She has an so. It's been roughed up after you know how many years whatever who's had it and she probably went to the police station and this whole scene the name of the movie. Every time i walked by the blu. Ray i just immediately thought of monty python and the holy grail for we and then this scene is basically that scene from monty python and the holy grail. Where it's like you know this guy is like. Oh yeah she came into my field and she cut my arm off and he's still has two arms. I'm just like what makes you think he's a week. Well manu got better and the cop is like an what happened to your arm. Then and they said well then the dream ended. And everybody's like oh. What are you doing us. But yeah i i mean. There are some darker moments in the end. The one bureaucrat. Doctor or mr bonda. Mr bonda like he is kind of committee figured but also he's kind of scary to me like i never know what he's going to do and he is just there to exploit shula and use her as a tool for him to get ahead which i found fascinating that he is this government guy. Who's using this witch quote unquote but then at the same time. I mean everything that she does seems to be right. Even down to the rain will definitely be talking about that but when she accuses They have this whole line of suspects at one point who stole this old man's dowry money and she picks out the guy from the crowd who stole the money and then the actually finding the money at his place. And it's like okay. Did she really no that. Was it a lucky guess. Like i always saw that as the plant. The police planet there after she is decided it was him. I couldn't see them having the to plant. That was also. My assumption is that they wouldn't really have had that much money to go around stashing on on people but i like the ambiguity though the it sort of hints that maybe she has powers or maybe she just is using some kind of accidental intuition. She doesn't isn't fully aware of but back to the comedy briefly. I think mr bonda is the funniest part of the film because he's sort of this bumbling bureaucrat and so the seems like made me pretty much laugh out loud like the one where she so they make her. Go all around in this bus and wants mr bonda kind of figures out that maybe she won't be that useful working at the which camp so the witch camp and i don't think we've said this but the which camp it sort of doubles as like a tourist attraction but they also they also forced them to farm and so they have to do manual labor and be an attraction as like. Oh look at these scary witches and so it seems like once. They realize she won't be good at manual labor because she's too small on the other which is do become kind of protective of her. He starts carting her around and making her go on these like official outings. And there's this really funny scene where the doors to the buzzer locked. And she's inside the bus unlike all shoot have to do is get up and open the door. But she doesn't she and most of the comedy with her is that she just doesn't do anything and he tries to like break into the bus but he doesn't want to get a suit thirty. It reminds me of some of those like Earlier movies where you have like a some film new are like this. There's some sort of fantasy like this. Where you have these kind of bureaucratic satan type characters where. There's something fundamentally ridiculous about them. While at the same time they have that sense of menace that you were talking about mike. While he's got pat almost eighty. I mean look to him sometimes. I'm just like what's going to happen with this guy and yeah like you can tell that he is just interested in getting ahead by using her somehow especially when he goes to the one i think might be the only white guy in the entire film and he's just like it'll rain it'll rain and it's like okay. So i like the way that the convey that there are issues with the rain where we cut at one point to this big field knows this green tree and then they cut an. It's another field. I think it's another field and a very brown tree and then it's like suddenly this becomes part of the narrative is that we haven't had any rain and so he takes her to the dude who seems to be majority figure and it's like oh yeah it'll rain it'll rate in by this time. Yes she is shutting down. She doesn't want to be exploited anymore so she just hunches down and has this cover over her and she won't move or anything and then they rip the cover off of her and they start moving hands going. It'll rain it'll rain. It's devastating so you bond not as like the scary figure somewhere also so lazy in his business really came through this time because every opportunity where he can do something he says. I know you do it to the near person near around him. Selena threat is there but you be feeling he's never actually gonna lake physically her or like you know doing 'cause like he could. He is too late to do it himself. He is one of these people who's just fucking everybody over to get ahead and even the witches are fucking people over. I'd love that whole scene of the woman that shows up at the camp. And she has all those wigs. This whole horrible wigs and the which is just like a will use What shula gets because. When shula doesn't act of witchcraft that is deemed good. She gets Sacrifices so she'll get a whole basket with like oranges and gin and all these things in there and so now the witches are like oh well we can start to shula's winnings quote unquote and use that to barter for other things like these wigs that we suddenly find very necessary. It's so sad. And i think that's what keeps it from being just a black comedy is it's like every scene is undercut with this sense that she just doesn't have anyone and i mean that's how the whole thing starts is. She shows up to this village and they don't really know her because she's an outsider. They just accuser of being a witch. And she's it seems like she's too scared to say that she isn't and so she just because she says nothing that's how she sort of get swept into this whole adventure. But that's the part that kind of upset me. The most that i found to be the most depressing is that the other women in the which camp do kind of look out for her but also exploited her at the same time although the way that they i forget how they actually say it but she tried the lady tries to call them nikki massage wings but she switches the letters around itself. Funny it's not riana. It's like rihanna wig. Like beyond say is like it's a very like i do appreciate that of like the mongolian popstars which i like. Maybe as a comment on lake western culture. Maybe being translated retranslated like overseas. Possibly but may when thank you too much until like that that will thing it because the world that there doesn't look like it's twenty seventeen. It looks like it's much older. But then when they're like oh yeah riyan beyond say madonna. The are well aware of what's going on in us pop culture and it's like why. Why would anybody be interested or know what's happening there. But okay yeah i mean i think it's just kind of a cultural trickle down is you. Can't you can't avoid hearing about it. You said earlier. That this was set in zambia but the are gano on yanni. She found him also interview. She always specifies. She didn't intend it to be Zambia she's wanting to be like vaguely africa to show like it's say happens across the continent as a whole in like she made a point to never show a zambian flag or Mentioned san cities other. There's a brief mention of the capital lusaka. But she did make a point. To like not specify zambia. I mean i think. Because it's shot in zambia. It just as sort of easy to assume that that's where it's supposed to be set. I really appreciated the scene. Where they determined that she's a witch of the whole thing with the which doctor and kinda talking about modernism versus. Not he comes in and he's like look at me the way i'm dressed i'm witchdoctor. And he just keeps me like takes off as his pants. See i'm witchdoctor. Basically like nothing up my sleeves kind of thing but then in his headdress. It looks like gold lemay foil inside of there so it's like each of these traditional dresses that they have has a modern element to it. I even noticed with her when she's up in her outfit. I can't remember what it was. But there's something where it's just like okay. Well that's very you know twentieth century or almost twenty first century. So it's interesting that they have this mix of old the new and that you know you're able to take these older things like the The ribbons in these mix them with newer culture as well by on that scene with the witch doctor also very much appreciate it after we talked about tuckey buki earlier this month that there is an implied chicken sacrifice. And you get to see blood. Splatter over on doctor. Mr bound shoes but you don't actually could see the chicken being killed which. I was very glad that we can just move to more of an implied chicken sacrifice of death. Onscreen like to kabuki the stuff of that like it's traumatic in which the point but with like if it's a chicken could i've seen a few african films were chicken. Is killin seraing. Where i'm like it. I'm kinda okay with it. Doesn't bother me that much but i think it's might this because like into tuckey buki. It's it's a cow. It's like a fully grown cow. And you see it. Release last breaths in a goat which are the also big annual but a chicken. Looks like it's kinda smaller so it's not as a to watch are you specious against chickens. Okay i was definitely surprised that you didn't see the chicken died because i think i'm just so accustomed to it not to also be specious but in movies with animal violence of chickens and pigs or usually the first to go. People are the least upset about those. Because it's may be more culturally common but here. It really surprised me. The first time. I saw this. That there wasn't more time spent going into rituals. And you know ceremonial practices watching it again. The second time around. It's something that i really liked. Because it makes it seem like such a sham. A lot of time with movies like this there is this element of exoticism or of nostalgia for traditionalism. If you're talking about older cultural customs better religious or spiritual but here. It almost seems like everything that happens. It doesn't happen for any genuine spiritual reason. It's just this how we do things. And nobody's really questioning it so we're just going to keep doing it but everyone kind of seems to think that everyone at least My reading of it was everyone seems to sort of. Except when mr bonda says she's a witch while at the same time sort of thinking that it's bullshit were gonna said on one. I watch that. A major part of lee which camps in like the enforcement of which camps is complacency on both sides and so in ghana. She said that the which camps would have an invisible Statue that would keep the witches within a certain area but that can only work if they believe they they are witches. And so there's like this eight double and infra sambi of ribbon frau she said in. Zambia is an equally Bullshit fang of like it. It's there's nothing physically keeping them there. It's like the cultural Belief of lake there. The will force keep you here in both sides have to believe in it in order for it to continue while you mentioned lanta mas earlier and i agree like this is great for me for the use of the ironic cut. And you definitely have that here. Like talking about the scene with the witch doctor and the chicken and like at this point. I'm expecting this. Little girl is not a witch and they're going to prove that she's not a witch right here because there's this whole thing of like if the chicken dies within the circle then she's a witch and otherwise she's not and you don't see the chicken running around the circle or any of that kind of stuff seen the you see. That is pretty darned tiny. And i imagine that the chicken has the run of the room. So i'm just like okay. Yeah while there's no way this chickens going to end up in the circle cut you. Think they really kill the chicken or do you think these like the fake blood squirt. I think it was not killed for the movie at all from the use of the sound effects and from the use of the the spray of blood and the way that we never really see that i also appreciated that. She was using still frames though. I thought my blue ray hit busted for a second. The first time is still. Tv was fucking up when it happened. I always forget that scene that retired. But there's a couple of times where it's like. You don't know what's happening with this or like they put her in this room with a knife and they're like okay if you accept being a witch and you'll let us know in the morning and then of course cut into i'm a witch okay. I didn't expect that. I didn't expect that she was going to go along with this charade. And then the other weird part to me is that she might actually be a witch. That's a double complacency angle. Like if you think it's bullshit then she clearly believes in the the lie to bell fate with a witch versus goat angle. Goats are a common food at every everywhere. like name. clever yours but Is there actual choice because like the picked Which is a common meal. So i'm thinking she'll be sacrificed if you do to be ago. That is how i read. It is that she doesn't actually have a choice because they do say to. Were you know goats get killed and eaten and so it's like you can be. You can admit that you're a witch and stay here in this which camp or you can get your goat. And i'm sure telling a kid you could be killed in eaton. Maybe the kid knows that that's just Meant to be symbolic. But maybe they dom also i think it raises the this issue of complicity having raises this larger point about the fact that even if these women cut their ribbons or said they weren't which is where would they go on. What would they do mean this. Little girl has no family. The village that she tried to live in accused of being a witch because they wanted her gone. So it's like if she said no. I'm not a witch. She just going to go into the wilderness by yourself and i think that also is probably true of all of the older women in the campus. Well it's if they say. Oh i'm not a witch. I wanna leave. I'm gonna cut my ribbon. No one's gonna marry them. They obviously don't have any money. Saved up like it seems like there's nowhere else for them to go to go. Will contrast them. With mr banda's wife question mark or mistress assistant the which he saved by making her a respectable woman. Her magic trinket is that wedding ring and the way that she'll point at them. You like look at me. I'm respectable and when she has her spool inside of the shopping cart she still has to wear her ribbon which is just amazing to me. She doesn't have to wear it at home but when she goes out into the community she has to wear her ribbon and she puts it in your shopping cart. And she's basically they're pushing that stupid ribbon around with her and that seemed to me was one of the most horrific scenes is when people like look a witch it which in everybody stops in his throwing things at her and all those things just like she she's like no i'm respectable i'm respectable and off. That seem really got me. It's so horrific especially because the way the scene plays out at first when shula meets her. She's presented as this woman who lives in this really nice house and she has money and she has this comfortable lifestyle and she kind of tells shula. I followed everything they told me to do. If you follow everything they tell you to do. You could have a nice house. Anais life like this or you could have even more than me and so rapidly is revealed to just kind of be ally or this woman's fantasy. Mr bonda doesn't seem to be very nice to her and treat her like a slave. I love the way they're introduced is he's in the bath and she's like washing him and he she has to answer the phone so that he can take a phone call. It's like you don't really know who she is at first but when you learn later on the debts is wife it's like yep so you know that he's basically recruited her from one of the camps and there there are the older witches and their shula. Who's a very young witch and then the wife in the middle and it's like what happened to that generation of witches did bonda like sell them to other people like what. Why do we just see this huge disparity in age between these old cronies and the young girl. Nobody between it always sort of struck me especially watching the second time around. How in the beginning when they show up with shula at the witch camp and they tell the which is the women there you know. There's a new member of your community and they're all outraged. It's almost like watching a game. Show where everybody is supposed to respond with cheers or with laughter or in in some kind of prescribed way when he tells them. Oh here's new which to join you. They're all upset about it. And i can't help wondering what like. Why are they upset is because they know what's going to happen to her or they don't want the competition or partly because she's a child. Sure but why would that upset them like. She's too young. i was also thinking. Is this disparity in age. Is that middle section. That ring of the tree if you will. Is that when women were able to not be in that position in society and now we're going back to it. Issue a harbinger of things to come like listen. We are getting back to the ways of young people being accused of being witches and pretty soon these camps will have more young people in them. Your maybe they were married off. And i i think it might be combo of like they married off into a respectable homes or they got killed or I looking the history of the nba earlier today. If like a mini like meter civil wars or anything. And i couldn't find anything like connecting idea so i'm not really sure why the duration gap is there. It's all connected back to this idea that most of the women in those camps in in real life not just in the movie are women who are outcasts in some way and usually that's because they were too old never got married never had kids and so okay. What's wrong with them. How are they different. And i'm guessing that's why it seems so jarring that there should be a child there because she still has those opportunities. I can't stress enough. How incredible these visuals are. And we've talked a little bit about the ribbons and to see that flatbed semi with a big trucks. Oh yeah with. All of the spoils that are done up. In almost like tree of spoils and then the women out into the fields and seeing the spools unfurl got in. There are times where you just see ribbons flying in the wind and the sun and the background film is gorgeous to look at so often when i see a truck with the schools. It's after a great win. Mr banda is talking about A new truck a big orange truck from the government. And then get this nice guys like. Oh there's a new truck from government interests a a normal looking truck clearly a hand me down truck but it. Yeah it is so that that definitely was something that struck me right away. Just how beautiful. It is a living painting like you get like these still shot sat wake makes me think of color pomegranates. Very minimal movement maybe when blowing. Answer slake oregon. Oh her team. They're artists who know how. Make the perfect image. This is i believe her. I chair in with a lot a lot of shorts beforehand so she had a good amount of practice in order to come up with how great these images are and talk about just an amazing first feature. She really just knocked it out of the park. Even though i'm not too big on us movie. I i do wanna see everything else. She makes 'cause like if this is any indication like everything will be thought provoking interesting. She was either very fortunate or very lucky or just very skilled to get that performance out of maggie malumba. She is just terrific in this. Guess she doesn't speak a whole lot during this film so much of it is just her face and just seeing how she's interpreting these horrific circumstances that she's in. She's so wonderful. It was great watching this little girl. Just and her kind of stoic. Look against the rest of the world and she is so good she has. This giant is so. She's so good looking sad without really any other body language like the scene. That probably i think is the most heartbreaking is when she's in that little hut and her face is painted and she's she's back at the camp and she's clearly just supposed to be a tourist attraction in this british lady comes up and immediately can recognize. Something is wrong with this child. She's upset but the way the woman responds to it is just the worst like she sort of says. Oh you know is is anything with her. Is she okay. And you think she's asking out of genuine humanity in genuine concern and then the woman says like oh maybe it will make her feel better to take a picture. It's like don't treat her like a zoo animal. I'll send you a copy. I'm like what do you think she has a phone. I don't think so lady that the actress is a zambian. And i think she's probably friends with iran gano because gano she Barnes the nba. But she grew up in wales that actresses also welsh zambian while she does a good job being detestable. There the casting of maggie. Yes nba a week or two before they had. They were filming. On roy. ghana's partner. was taking pictures of A area and took a picture of maggie and she wasn't a fish lake apart Being auditioned initially and they went through nine hundred girls to try to find someone in Find anyone and it was Within the last week and she stumbled upon that picture again and was like. I want to find this girl and so they had to find this head of fine maggie in an area which was very hard because they had no clue what her name was where she lives or anything if she was a visiting for for today or whatever but they eventually found her and like with like a couple days left insulate. So this could have been very different. If circumstances didn't turn out the way they did. You nailed it. Same with the big is in especially what they do with the The two long marks on her face where it looks almost like tears and then you gave her in the that dress she wears when she's in her which get up and she can barely move the she's almost like an cocoon away. She's moving around there. And those i don't know if they're like bean pods but the way that they hang down almost looks like basset hound ears in front of her to. I mean just the way that they use the outfits as well can really play up her emotional feelings at that point even the alpha that she has to wear when she so. There's another one of the heartbreaking. Scenes is mr bonda forces her to go on a talk. Show the interviewer sort of asked him about shula and her powers in some. There's a who calls in is sort of outraged and says like how do you know. This is a witch. What if this is just a child like what is she. Why isn't she in school. Why doesn't she have a normal life. And because of that they're sort of guilted into sending her to school but they don't send her to normal school they send her basically to the school for other outcasts kids and she's made to be an. It's a pretty quick scene but because she has to still wear her ribbon and carry her school around. It's get immediately sets her apart from these other kids who are already set apart. They do so much with costumes and props in this. It's really incredible soon. The alpine on kids was pretty harrowing. Because i'm not sure how. Common is but with more traditional religions and may parts africa Albinos are are killed for their body parts because they're seen as like good luck or good. I like that and see. Not i know kids was like. Oh no it just makes mealy maybe tense up. 'cause like there are parts of even children of i children being till for body parts. That's definitely be sort of visual. Signifier that she's not in just a normal kid. School so heartbreaking on. There's one kid who doesn't have any is and yet it reminded me. I've been racking my brain this entire month as far as what african films i've seen obviously haven't seen and seeing those albino kids like flashed my mind. I was like. I saw movie back in two thousand thirteen. That was about and albino boy in a african village and finally i was like okay. What is this. And i had to go back through my records and found that it's three called white shadow and yet this kid. This albina kid is in constant mortal danger the entire movie because he's in albano so harrowing harrowing film. And soon. As i saw these albino kids i was like okay. Yes she's with the rejects of society. And even there. She has no respect when when bond wants her back he just starts bringing that ribbon. She's like fucking fish on a hook and just gets pulled yanked right out of the classroom. There's scene to earlier. When i think they're talking about her wanting to go to school and they give her funnel and she can put the funnel up to her ear and hear other kids playing and that was one of those first moments. Ours like oh. This film is going to be playing with our expectations. Here i did not expect her to be able to hear what i think actually was a classroom of kids because she put the funnel up tour ear. There is definitely that magical realism in the fancy breaks when Mr bonda shows up in and his car. I think i leaned more on. It's not magical bellyache. That's one element of the vm. Like i don't. I'm not so sure about that. There's even one moment to. I talked about the the guy who robs the dowry. There's a moment where they set up. Oh it's her in. I think school children. They're bunch of younger people in white and it looked like school uniforms to me and how they set up like okay shula which one of these did it and we don't know what they're being accused of and we never see. The rest of the scene is just this great way of setting it up to be like she is doing this often. We're not going to see every instance of her using her witch powers. I'm doing air quotes again. Because she's doing it a lot. Bonda must be getting a lot of stuff out of her and her fellow. Witches are just like oh yeah. We'll use her her winnings basically to be able to pay for these wigs. It's like okay. She is definitely in demand. I think she inbound are going out probably every day to settle disputes and with the first dispute With the the diary case. One little part of that i love is at the older women who say him. It was a dark one which is lake. I'll go colorado will never end end. That moment is a great one It's so it's so quick but so gutting you're just like oh god i'm speaking as someone who's light-skinned but like who can pass quote unquote but still like i'm affected by colorado minute something. I'm hyper aware of whenever it comes up a movies. Yeah it's interesting. you bring that up. Because i was reading this interview with neon anywhere. She was talking about. How having the film screen for western audiences particularly for white people. She felt like people were maybe not getting the humor or were afraid to laugh at it because they didn't want to feel like they were being racist or sort of laughing at the people rather than laughing at jokes. I'm satires tough but this is kind of like like. I wonder how this would play for like my parents in like organs parents. My girlfriend's white. Like i felt like my parents would fine like find or funding her parents. Who would be more kranji in like not even finish it and i think i cringe too much other than bindis. This behavior like those moments were cringely for me. But like. I don't think i was being overly sensitive about stuff but that could just be because i'm an old white dude. Yeah i mean his behavior is i think cringe in such a universal way. Because it's bureaucrat. Cringe where it's this. You know small lazy person who is just trying to amass whatever power they can by exploiting people that they perceive to be below them. And i think that's why it's such a great performance that he gives but is is the character so despicable will who is the woman that he actually kowtows to. At one point he comes in and he's on his hands and knees and she read them the riot. Act a little bit. But i couldn't really get beat on her and what she represented to him. Is she supposed to be the leader of the witch community because in the very beginning when he first brings shula he addresses. Someone as your highness. Your majesty i think. And that's the woman that we see later. Who really takes him to task. That must be at Representative for which is the film deals in so many interesting ways with this issue of misogyny and so to have seen where he gets chewed out by a woman is pretty great. I'm massageenvy note. So do you guys read. Every ending as the teen boys. That work at the camp in as they. They're the ones who killed her. 'cause i always seen as like the teen boys who kind of dual the bidding for bonda and his cronies like. I always see them as like. They're the ones who killed shula i honestly. Don't now i don't know either. I mean it is pretty mysterious. The way that she leaves. And then we cut to the back of that kid's head and he's listening to the modern music on the headphones and driving the two cows and they're the ones that bring back the body but they don't even really bring it back while they don't bring back in a nice way. It's all wrapped up in a white shroud and they just dump it in a field to the point where i'm like. Is that what i think it is. I'm not sure. I couldn't tell the first time i saw. It took a few minutes. Which i think it's supposed to but i also kind of wondered if maybe the implication was that because she did this ritual dance that it just made her sick and she died of exhaustion or something. Because it's so vague like you see no violence at all. Yeah it definitely doesn't smell right to me though. Yeah just that the dump off this shroud and then that scene man they shoot it so well keeping us away from the body and keeping us wondering what's going on. And the way that the witches run out the field is just one which at first and her with her ribbon trailing behind her and then another and then another then another and just the way that those ribbons are behind these women on my god. It's fantastic and we never get the satisfaction of getting the cut to them over the body and then it's cut to another thing where we see the. That's the shot. I think of the ribbons and the sun. I was talking about and then when we see them all dressed in red with white shroud amongst them in that overhead shot of them on the truck. It's like oh my god. This is so gorgeous and then it starts to rain. And it's like okay is shula magical. Did she actually start the spring. In and i feel that it had been her doing. It seems like there are too many coincidences of her. Potentially having powers for it to be totally skeptical about that. Same this is structured after zambian fairy tale in the economy thinking because there are a few african fantasy films i've seen in. They all do lake. Lo fi effects kind of this movie does where they can't do like cj or anything so they asked us figure like ways to imply magic inside. This country is a tradition of implying. Magic i was just one movie. Think it's elaine From eighty-seven scorsese the big fan of it but that has like a duel between the wizards. But it's done in his very like practical way of of implying. Lake shooting spouse each other in like hurting each other it but like it's in movie carries that tradition and i still lean more toward like like the rain particularly because like you get the busy uh the moment earlier if the person saying it will rain at some point so i voice as when will it rain. Yeah yes it will raise. It's inevitable and i do like that. Final shot of the s- pools without the witches. Oh it's so good. It also feels so unintended tied to her her death and the fact that instead of having this mournful ceremony they specifically call it a celebration and it has this sort of joyous tone like. She's gone on to do something more interesting than half to work for mr bonda like she's gone onto a bigger adventure and the which is going to go with her feels like her sacrifices freed them before her sacrifice when she's in a tent in it's colored red and used to get the voices from outside lake. That is so creepy to me in feels like superior the purchase or like you know the witches or are like you know talking and suzy's trying to deflect happening to get a lower lake this feels more sinister than that because he don't see like body shapes moving. It's a slake this chorus of voices. That won't stop talking. I don't know how old shoeless supposed to be in. You know the whole idea of her being in that tent with that red lighting going on i was just like is this. Her first period is this. What's going on here. Is this her her changing her metamorphosis into womanhood. That's not a bad thought that were time to the cocoon looking costume earlier. And then i guess well. And then even the shroud that she's in is almost another cocoon or maybe it's the the shell that she left behind. Yeah that is definitely. it seems like red. The color red plays a much bigger importance at the very end of the film than anywhere else and Orange comes up with mr banda because he talks about the big orange truck and then you see his first time see his wife offense. No second hottest is wife. She's wearing orange and he's warning. Orange tie injures our stuff in their house and that's one of the colors on the flag but apparently on a flag represents mineral wealth. And i notre match connection with like the flag colors belic. It's interesting like orange keeps showing up with that one character particular. I noticed how interesting their flag it just. It looks almost like a a german flag tip down at side but then there's that field of green and then that little orange eagle or bird rate over. That sideways tipped flag. It's very being a little familiar with graphic design. I would not let this out of the shop kind of thing. It just does not look like it balances out at all. I like the idea. The flags the world and these things like. Oh which is the one of one country's flag. That's actually a circle. And i'm like oh okay. That's kinda cool very different. And what each of these things represents the as i was fascinating like what is that bird all about. And what are these colors because everything has meaning you don't just whip up a flag it's africa so there's at least two two of the pan. African colors from flag will be on there. Yeah i definitely love that association between the orange on the flag with mr bonda as a government representative. I liked to when we meet him. The you were talking about the scene the bathtub. I like that. He's facing away from us. And so he's this mysterious figure the way that he's being shown the first time and it's mostly just yet his reaction to his wife his reaction to the phone call. I was like okay. That's pretty nice in that. Yeah he's living this luxury that this woman is bathing him. now let's Every mainstream right spencer. There are too few films that introduce a character in the bathtub and whenever it happens it always makes me think of waldo light eker from lara. Who is maybe the best character introduction of all time but is also supposed to be kind of living in the lap of luxury on the phone in the bathtub. Live in that life at trumbull with a very angle and like the the math realism feels like The guy who did Uncle boonmee and some three splendor Oh yeah if feels like fat or like 'cause liam matson punk see the describes like a the use of supernatural in those movies. Has it just part of the world. It's not like we're in the west in lakewood. Christianity based societies like the magic and like the real world are two separate entities. But like every bit about other cultures. It's the supernatural unnatural address part of the same world and he kind of blended merged together in this feels like an example of flake. The supernatural blending with blending with the With with like the natural world like we would see it. It definitely feels that way. And i really love films that do that. Yeah that she goes out to the store with her spool in the shopping cart. Okay this is just kind of a part of everyday life. I'm glad that they had that moment. Because otherwise it could feel much more like the witches are often this other thing and they've got tourists that visit them and all that but they're not necessarily integrated with the rest of society and seeing the one which who is now respectable and trying to be part of society like okay. That's good because it. It really took it. Put us in the rest of the world that we have because those moments with bonda bringing 'em shula to these different places. It doesn't necessarily feel integrate. I guess the stuff with the tv show as well also makes it feel like it's much more part of a much larger world but with that with the tv show if feels like maybe this world that you're living in. Mr bonda is not going to be around forever because people are starting to question this. They're starting to question you. Bring a half dozen eggs and say they're shula eggs. People are just like those reactions from the crowd. Yeah everyone is a little mortified. It kind of reminded me of the reaction when the girls and cuties are dancing in They're trying to be as quote unquote sexy as possible. And you have all those women in the audience just going what the hell is happening. What is happening right now. This isn't good and that was very much the reaction. I was getting from them watching shula on stage. Yeah that's definitely where. I was trying to go earlier when i said that. It seems like in this world people kind of accepts that they're witches or accept that they're supposed to believe there which is wall at the same time thinking that it's bullshit or being deeply skeptical of it. We talked about the witchdoctor earlier. I wonder the point now On garneau did and one of the interviews she cornell that witchdoctors in zambia as of twenty eighteen are still a thing in you have to be licensed to be which doctor that's awesome sometimes. Yeah but the the combat to that white shadow movie the way that they were chasing down the kids for their blood and skin was like that was all witchdoctors. You know we. We need this so that we can help now. Of course you know. Cure erectile dysfunction no. That seems to be like everybody needs that help right like. Oh yeah. I can use kids albino tongue to do this or whatever. Yeah i mean. That part isn't so awesome but the just the fact that you know they're licensed practitioners but my favorite thing about this by far is that it opens with classical music. Baroque music are the music major briefly. Selling that's important point out. It's vivaldi and the fact that they use a common thing i see a lot is classical music in like a barracuda era being used with wealth and like basically like upper class white people and usually it's never used with anyone male classroom lower in movies and tv and this opens with a witch camp. And you and you're playing vivaldi spring and it's like oh this is great. They're actually like like using it in a different way. Instead had a different association. Entertainment comes up. i think are are dallas. The first few times used with the witches. Every time. Vivaldi music comes up. There's great use of music in this film especially the way it occasionally uses diet genetic music can of cuts in some contemporary pop music in i just again. I'm sorry to sound like a broken record. But i just can't stress enough. How great looking this movie is that if you appreciate something a beauty you're gonna appreciate this movie just because it is so well shot. I never thought ribbons could be so pretty to look at. I just to me ribbons. Are this sort of trite old fashioned kind of feminine device and here. They're used in just the most stunning poetic way. What also sat and that place went to lethal double complacency thing. Where like a ribbon is fragile and weak in europe it easily but they believe you know You know they are witches men around them believe that they are which is so like For for the ribbon to be effective as a kid tick tick ethan from flying and killing people like they have to you know both sides have to believe that. This ribbon is that is that match or coal Instrument can't hurry miami to a little bit of cool hand. Luke luke gets. The at camera fits us strang or what he's doing but how he ties it to the bush and that he's pretending that he's peeing because he's like got Shaking it's it's tied so that it moves back and forth neons. I whole shaking the bush boss and all of these switches are basically on a chain gang at the end of the day. They really are though yet. To your point it's a beautiful freely riba chain gang. It's not a chain gang ribbon gang but it's still even though they're not manacled. It's still a chain gang and they're still being forced to do what is basically slave labor at one point. Thought they're breaking rocks. They are 'cause the the arrange though because they get to cut to the to the empty field and former like sorry no work today and then the iran cut to now. They're this you know breaking in rocks for a for whoever. i think. This is a good introduction at african film because the access and also wants pretty to like. There's a lot to digest. And it's not like i say touki-bouki because that one you should work to that because i don't want people going in and being horrified by the slaughterhouse footage in like this is a good like it will the slick a i see hence of maddie and haroon and Uh some ben and like all. The people like that in this movie like this is if you have not seen african film beside like district nine. Which kind accounts in my mind or the gadhafi crazy like Start here and then if you're into this and there are so many other movies to take it into our similar deal with similar issues yet. Such a like mike was saying. It's such a gorgeous film that i can't imagine people not being moved by it even even if going in they might not get any of the cultural references or anything like that. It's it. I think would be such a great starting place all right. We're going to take a break compla- preview for next week show right. After these brief messages this episode is sponsored by story blocks. If you've ever worked on a video then you know how frustrating it can be defined the right stock footage. It's always just a little bit wrong in the quality isn't there and this is where story blocks comes in story. Blocks offers affordable subscription options for just about any video needs any price you can handle so stay on budget while telling the best version of the story you need to tell. 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shula mr bonda zambia chris wimmer Mr bonda tuckey buki Db cooper sam degan mr spencer ghana spencer mr banda riyan rihanna san cities africa infra sambi ribbon frau Mike white apple
Episode 532: Touki Bouki (1973)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:24:20 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 532: Touki Bouki (1973)

"An airwave media podcast. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal out guitars prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history all told with cinematic music and sound design subscribed for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast to hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws laws. Like jesse james and butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache. We use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Show people pay money to see this movie. When they go to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. Who are Could be incomes. Plummet nov the complex. I don't why took a book for that. Overlap enough put rumble the sunday coupon thanks. Tom sets the number among my can booming and will do with Welcome to the projection booth. Mike white joining me once again. Is mr ben buckingham. Good evening good night. Auto also joining me for the first time in the booth is mr spencer. Seems who will be with me on this month. Long journey into african cinema safari. If you will thank you were invited me on. African cinema kicks off what they look at. Gibrilla de up these tuckey buki also known as the journey of the hyena. It's a story of two young people and anta who dream of leaving their city and going to paris. The film is also a portrait of life in senegal in eighteen seventy three. I'm not sure if there's much to spoil about the film but we're gonna try your best to do so so if you haven't seen tuckey buki turn off the podcast and comeback. After you have so spencer when was the first time you saw the film and what did you think. first time. What have been may be four five years ago back when hulu had Criterion movies on there and i was again to african history and african cinema and the opening horrified me and i didn't watch it again for about two years. I was not prepared for him Animal slaughter in the first five minutes. Yeah if you don't like violence to animals you might want to skip the first five ten minutes of this film. I was reminded a lot of like beaver. Say more or our the furnaces. He gets wurley. Grody slaughterhouse things going on in here but at least it's over pretty quickly and when i did revisit it i covered it two years ago. This point on my own show spike season This move became like. It's not my favorite betty. But it's kinda like it's the most important one. And it's when i respect and i i find more stuff to about every time i watch it and ben how about yourself spending on one for me. I never heard of stumbled across the latrobe university library. Thirteen years ago and i acquired myself a copy of that time and just never got around watching it and i just be paul to watch stuff forever i never saw any matted and it was just this off few came out of nowhere back no way partly for me and then out of nowhere mellon film festival play. I think it was thirty. Five mill- made up it. And i was like arcade screw the davide integrated. What should he went. There had a really ought not great experience because a her grand the short film A thousand suns A medical alpers actually embodies naisse and that allows the lead at the mika young forty five years after to keep your p and it's a thirty minute short something like that and they played had it before turkey and the doctor admits she doesn't give you a lot of context or meaning or inflammation and sir. You can't going okay. what's going on donor. These people gartner the connections. They making have no emotional connection to it was just like a mafia in Blow we we all just didn't connect with it because of that you're just too much out of it and i just hadn't gone back to it since and win. Came out that you were doing it. This year is like oh. Elliot's i'm totally onboard to come back to this film has Ugly in my life and revisited and yeah on a revisit. While i watch twice in weight and leftists at the relationship has been fixed. I i heard about this film just recently. It was miguel iansa so when he was on for the crumbs episode was telling me about some of his favorite african films and he described a film that i have yet to see. He was talking about a african western. And i was. Oh this sounds interesting. And he was describing people writing giraffes and all this. I'm like wow. This sounds really right up my alley where it was just like tears of the black tiger from the philippines where it was a From thailand where it was a tie western musical and so i was like yeah. Yes yep so. I started looking for westerns set in africa and tuckey buki came up on the list. I guess because of maury main character being cowherd and oh two key buki that sounds like a great title and let me check this out. And i actually showed it during one of our watch parties that we did during lockdown and i said the app this is right up by alex. Someone's spencer suggested that. I do a whole month of african films and i think the rest of this month is purely program by you spencer but to keep buki was one where was like. I really want to talk about this movie because it is. I can't say it's like nothing i've ever seen before. Because this is a senegalese film that is steeped in french. New wave but also at the same time. It feels like it's rejecting the french new wave so i really appreciate what he's doing with this movie. The french new wave aspects fascinating. Because i'm as i'm watching. I'm like would this particular group of maple really lionize and worshiping imitate to that level of people. Who are the colonize us. And i just couldn't see that in the ill when he stupid back to bare essentials filmmakers in the same position. God and the medi- it's young people reacting underneath afoul of french aristocrat capitalism and at birth during with war similar equipment in similar situations. They just come from quite obviously the may. This remind me a lot more. A cinema that period in the sixties than the french really like obviously much hugh waving is inescapable of said. Unless they're used ignoring it or coming out without having seen that as it gets more just because of his social political situations and is in time and the technology. I love those early shot. Especially when it's very fracturing early on when he's being driven down the street tied up up to the landscapes in everything. That's much more like how the italian she'd landscapes a french. The french too busy filming themselves to film landscapes to the italians have such a relationship with the land and especially the short-term from anta pressed against that rock us. that's so antonioni like oh my god. It's a log of attorney vibes in this more than i think. Got out or anybody else and the other one. French shoemaker ought feel is some go the chains out the window. John obviously has quite strong influences the surrealism such the other main crunched Wise and also tied into surrealism's definitely jewish friends. Who is definitely george. Frenzy is meta face and lessening. The blood of the base and judaic says well and the connections. That was one. I was just like oh man. I'm i'm back in rewatch And catch up on some of the ones that are being recently released. And i'm looking forward to it now. I haven't seen this. Hyenas has also the connection between the tar drums and transformations being trapped within System that it pertains to be Supporting you and encouraging but is actually just devour you and distract you this sermon. Connections in the course of the thing that really launched To fame was he's documentary about of the base which was a twenty five minutes. Took a set in the french abattoir Us and it's just only in black and white and it's just. This is what we leave with. This is what you say. This is what ignore is what's happening right now in the heart of the city and it's just presented as being you need to see this and as such a strong connection with that kind of mentality in how it's used and the idea of metropolis has a meat grind of slota which which is basically the narrative of the film. Hardly like it's such to mealy with like When the first Shots of said you see. Is you get there. were on to maury live which is he knows. Small houses poverty in the nabet growing. How this big city in immediately get in your head like the feeling of like no one living here to thinks they can make it there. It's so subtle. And like i like that and batty with mbeki journal like this doesn't tell you anything he assumes you are mature adult who can think for yourself and figure figure stuff out on your own the way that it communicates after watching it. Be watching for the first time this week. I was looking into more human talked to pass the old traditions of society. Which i already knew at a little bit about studying kali. Would this stuff. Now they use the vj's and that's another fascinating. Example of how african cultures Old different staffing goal to transform goals tradition in different ways to meet cinema but yet as is a great card from mum. All tradition is a tradition of images. What is said is stronger than what is written the addresses itself imagination. Not the ear. Imagination creates the image image create cinema. So we are in direct lineage as cinemas parents. That just sort of sums up. Betty's apart in this film that it's he's communicating so much cermony poets and using every single aspect of cinema to communicate that narrative with the character. Attitude the hot now to the metaphor narrative the political narrative star who narrative old others are in these film. Moving along meeting points in suggesting thesis and each one is like to the four different times and is emphasized different aspects much nevada using music and sound. But it's all of seen everything in cinema. He's putting to use as a all twenty twentieth century. All still retell was the word for that which is like a kind of like a botanist. That the stories of storytellers of that culture. And that's pretty much. What is traditional. Whitney's when he's in the cod naked being driven around and he's senior agree out solely with these things about being brought from. I think says sir. I agree with that that the You just told this film moments like reading a book in like house films the toll now. That's a really good comparison. Especially you have those moments where we're not even dealing with our protagonist and it's just like. This is life in senegal at this time. And we're not necessarily spending a lot of time in the car. were spending more time on the outskirts spencer. You mentioned that shot. I think of the city in the background and then where they live in the foreground and those just that major disparity between this big modern city in the back and then this woman selling tomatoes and peppers and things on her stand in the front and of course people coming by and wanting to buy on credit and i do like how antennas just like nope. No more we're stopping that no more credit on says i think onto more the protagonists than maury as because she really has presence she. Is this university student who is really learning about rebellion and revolution. I love how she walks around with that. Kinda green army coat Shirt underneath and she's just like fuck it. I'm here and she just seems like somebody that you don't wanna mess around with By the end like she's definitely more active than maury because maury to two side of same coin where they both are young and This one something more life but one has courage to actually pursue that. But one just can't do that. Yeah more can't get away from its roots. I always wonder though if she actually escapes or not because of the way that the film ends with them back on that rock when they were having sex though. I didn't realize they were having sex for the longest time i thought it was her masturbating. Because you just see her hand grabbing the motorcycle and doing that kind of reaction plus you hear her moans of pleasure and i'm just like okay she masturbating and then you get like that great shot because the rock author on his right over the cliff of Where the ocean is and then you get the ocean spray coming up. And i'm just like okay. Yeah that's totally an orgasm. And then when they cut and you see that she was on top of mauri. I'm like oh. I didn't even know you're there maury. Thank you welcome to the party. And don't forget that that's also indicate with these second animal sorta off the with having starts late on. The dole was an blood spraying a super super super intensely graphic and up to her. Yes it looks like. He's masturbating Pain slaughtered y-yeah. That is weird. The way that they cut between her looking down and the goat Yet is like she's looking down at that goat. He does a lot of interesting things. Were like okay taking these two very disparate things and cutting them together and doing that juxtaposition so that we can think about things in that way like ish she masturbating to this guilt slaughter and we get that gold slaughter coming back at least one more time and then we see the woman. Who's doing the slaughtering and doing the dressing. I guess it is when the chopping out all the internal organs. She's a very interesting character. And i love her reaction to everything and especially loved. There's a kind of a dream sequence later on in the film. When looks at an might or might not be a dream sequence. I just assumed that it is because suddenly everybody loves more in atlanta and it just like oh you are so great but also maurienne announce at that point i presenting as if they are rich and it just feels like this sequence of like. Oh now that you're rich. We'd love you and we you know we've always loved you and we want to be friends with you but that old woman who was slaughtering. The goat does not seem like. She'd be very sincere. Even though she sings a wonderful song to maury at that point. I love reverse shot of when cutting out the guardmen Really audrey vashon where. He's really obviously not making contact with but she's having a great time. Visas beautiful visits from made that is on me nada fall. She was an four Betty films the this hyenas lefranc vm. for film and law girl sold the sun. Okay i thought. I recognized her in hyenas because she does have a very distinct. Look at times in. This movie almost looks like her chin is really dark and the rest of her face isn't and i but then in other shots that's not the case so i wasn't sure if that was just my tv or if that was something that they were doing in the film but she's also got that interesting hairstyle with the two pieces of hair coming out from underneath her headdress. And then. I see that a lot more when china's the way that the hair is very different certain scenes especially when it feels like there's a judge who's wearing a a crazy wig. That feels a little bit like the barrister. Wigs was a take on tape off at interpretation It's something that nigeria still Superstar wigs and some other. The thinks that english no we we still do Nice it looks. That doesn't that doesn't look strange. Made so i see that as a living postcolonial country that still has that that it birth animal When they would on that kind of trappings at society sought to meant to be saying the same way. That's the common thing and all a former english african colonies. They still largely do that. Which is which which is like when you see it like with a africa's like this look so fucking silly. I don't know why you're still to unless england is how to dig thighs roots in date. I thought that she was the witch i believe. So because yet the markings on advice was was something to do with tribal witchery stuff. 'cause they were talking about ari the which money or something and she was screaming about hiring for rice and she seemed to be doing kind of slightly panter. Which kinda thing. Which is another thing. I like about these learning that A comes from theater. that was gone. He starred as the director was that does. He's quite comfortable leaning into that more. Rejecting to the back rows for some performances hacktivism not father's between enjoy. I'm not a fall. She was a popular singer and senegal and so like she was like the biggest time like the biggest draw for a movie. 'cause like people were known who she was just saying you know it makes me think twice should be playing that kind of characters. Welby visine steel. He hadn't she's got that great laugh that we hear mixed in to the soundtrack especially when they're the seagulls that are screaming or are calling and we mix that in with her laughter and see goats and waves and all this kind of stuff. That's fantastic the way that he's not just playing with image he's playing definitely was as well and especially when it comes to the perez song. That is this refrain. And i love how. It's this josephine. baker. I love the you know this black woman in paris. And so we've got that bit of contrast against these black people in a former french colony and francis steeped their culture. You know we talked a little bit about english. Culture francis cultures all over the place when it comes to this. They had just been liberated what thirteen years before the nineteen sixty when they finally kicked france out. The sixty was a big year when a lot of the countries were liberated. I mean they got rid of france but they didn't get rid of french culture and so everybody's speaking french or a mix of french and senegalese. It was interesting to hear all of it seemed to me with the with the language thing wolf is spoken with common people and worth retrievable or but pretty to wealthy. He's when he switched to french. And i said they're fully as like a A a class aspect to french and roof which in the been movie hala asala. it's a l. a. There's a joke in it Where someone says like when you're doing business you speak french not wolf. There's like a very distinct language barrier of win to use french on us french. Why notice for sure that the character i was gonna say he's coded as homosexual. They actually just come out and say that he's homosexual the they keep calling them fat but he's just he's chubby. Man this guy who they go to rob take all of his clothes and stuff in his car has amazing american themed car with the stars and stripes all over it. I mean he is one hundred percent speaking french or at least dropping a lot of french in when he speaking to his police. Captain friend on the phone. At times it's a little keystone cop ish. As far as the way that the cops are in the movie but the cops. I mean even when that guy calls the police station is like hey can i speak to this person. Always not here. Okay let me speak to this person. Always also not here and he just goes through this whole thing until he finally gets to a person and it's like what are these cops doing you know like the guy who's out there directing traffic looks like a total buffoon. The way that he's doing it and he also gets tricked very easily by maury and there's the other cop that he interacts with and i again. I love the shot river. Shot of the cop. You know with a low angle looking up at the cop. The high angle looking down at mori and once more cigarette is just like yep. Go on your way. I mean it's total like these cops are just here for graft and to make some money they don't care about anything that's happening in the world and it is very much in is that you feel like it's seen something specific to the time cultural political social the way that they has ended all it doesn't matter it still communicate something. Rv time is still amusing in the way. That is clearly meant to be amusing. Then it's just While interwoven over his aspects. And he's quite comfortable just shifting out. I don't even want to say that she genres. It's not as simple as addicts. It really does just from being a comedy to this. Might be a horror film. This this ethnographic ago. Now this is just like someone's heart movies on our back to comedy again. Flicks through that leaving. Aside the whole on ian clyde s kanda breathless. Kind of cine. Maybe crime narrative. It just doesn't matter just flicks through netflix. That was i think if i had a dull off every time. I said the word hybridization. When i was reading about this film betty. I think i'd be able to buy a new tv and it definitely is like. It's a hybrid film. These engaging hybridization like we haven't really talked about the bicycle very much yet the motorbike divide how it has horns as skull of zebu cattle attached. How attached to the front and service house present in one that images like so powerful even beyond saying jay z's that for one of their tours but matty. do pointed out during that tower. They never went to senegal so she's pretty Upset out correctly over The fact that they're using image from those famous than gullies movie ever. But they're not gonna torn senegal when you're using that image. I think it's pretty sight decided that anything is use appropriation. It is all actually on the topic for this film because it is colonisation. that's that that hybridization Do like hell is certainly judgment in this film visit is ethics but it's not it doesn't model as much if any that hind accepts that at this point in history where the past is gone. The future is unknown and different cultures of splitting infusing. Doing also things that just kind of follows people people's light autumn move through that and that's another thing that gives the film lakes across multiple cultures times. And i'm not sure if you to have ever seen Salako have not the sleigh. Oh is met honda. Which does another agree african film And filmmaker it's basically what happens. When african immigrants go to paris and with her life is like and turns out. It's not the it's better but not that much better. That's what i found fascinating the into the film. Servini in a compactor b-actor mind reputation is different. Everybody else is on. the kasey. didn't read during sleet and snow but the ending of that average ceremony with our like visions of the slaughterhouse. All that they like to be in like he's gonna get slowdowns like nor that the whole city with the connection to the fringe ruin the by. The base is the paris like Isn't eras without the twa at site at That's what he realizes that he will lose the sand and dirt and everything the air. It'll just be the slaughterhouse. Them that's why iran's i like it it seems less than give it another way Absolutely that mess yet. I got this like it's easy to connect with like black person. Watch movie 'cause like somewhat of salako is like oh i've experienced that in my life in a lesser away. This was fucking frustrating to sit through and watch all over again. Yeah we should talk about that motorcycle which is very you know the symbol of freedom and very much. I talked about how. I was thinking that this was going to be more of a western but there are times where this is kind of like a western especially when he takes his steed this motorcycle and ties it up with rope just like okay you know like coming into town and hitchin the horse up to the post and let drink he on. There are times when he's just like ties the motorcycle up so it doesn't get stolen but eventually it does and the person that steals it is a fascinating character to me as the as far as i know the only white person in the entire movie and this is how you there. The white french people in the boat. Oh thank you. Yes who was tweeted. Conversation fairy twitter conversation. Well the the only white person on the mainland let's say and he is dressed up just like tarzan and we. I see him up in a tree. I don't know if he's speaking anything other than possibly nonsense and chasing after them and eventually gets this. Motorcycle eventually crashes. The motorcycle dies. But i found it very interesting that it was this to me a very tarzan type character representing maybe what white people think of africa and one of the most famous white people in africa. Apparently that's Attended but i also see it as like people you know don trump donald trump junior who go to kill elephants just to feel a command. This like the cartoonish version of like this is what these people are actually like. That wouldn't make sense because that some of the divide between the physical. Approach all colonization through africa for the the civilized educated colonisation of africa which is represented by the twitter. Couple wanted music teacher. She's a teacher who makes what twice three four times as much as the african teachers. I love she has to point that out. Like oh yeah i make all this money on. I'm going to sock away this much yet. Her whole life plan that we get within five minutes. Direct gnawed Sociology pointing out fat in a lot of people believe that if they earn less than it must be a reason for it and they clearly weren't earning enough they would working on up to earn more and that was the reason why they don't pay less are finally dumb and terrible or the people that go to a foreign country. Make a lot of money off of the backs of of the people in that country and then piss off back to their original place and have a whole bunch of money now they can spend and yeah one of the first lines. Older white guy says something didn't even leave takao. Why would you go those laws. And he's the one that says after joke made up by journalists in need of copy my god. He's been Disarming memorable things in this. I did find a really interesting the way that i read the ending of him crashing. It and bright visit breaks to buy it breaks loose from the skull. Split is that white people can jump and they can't handle hybrid As as in that. That's kind of it's like. You're wearing a job handling this sheet storm than you poor more. When he runs away from the boat and runs and runs and runs. My wife was making run. Lola run jokes while we're watching this. And when he finds his bike. It's just like this is the only possession more really has in the world and now it's ruined. Thanks so much yeah. He's circus on escape. Is nothing else out. We don't even get in like we get more awareness of what anti has in her life but is just all we have is the bike and escape andy at short you referenced earlier when they're on the road after having sex images sorry next mullen said like they're on this. Ross that's just the very bottom of the frame are only just about enough to have a mean and the rest is just the And the border and they're looking off into that huge distance and that s always heads and it doesn't crack for maurienne to that marmot. He's about to take the step and he has these little vision his reaction and then it just freak out panic and is perfectly. I wonder too if he's going to get arrested after the cops are after him in these two various sinister sedans going down the streets and i i especially like the one shot where the two cars are coming down the street and there's no room really on either side of them and then one goes right. One goes left in the you know continuing to cover the city looking for these two criminals that ripped the sky off and i don't think they'd give a shit at all other than that. The sky was wealthy if he was just another dude in the village they wouldn't even pay attention to him. It's very i was thinking after. But who doesn't have that kind of nightmarish quality. Half peres has has at feels like a groupie described as the way all racing's coming affecting humans christine around different strange directions with that some of the surrealist aspects and traditions. But i had thought that the difference between an african version calf to retain European version is the white people are why because they think they're on top of everything but people do know why and this what dealing with sorry the calf risk for the emmys though disturbed freak out not these has presented by simple instead. It's more just journey. Which trips abroad but the title a turkey buki translate through journey. The hyena one. Vke what i can imagine is the hyena word or character. I mean from what i understand. the hyenas seemed kind of like. We're talking last month for spaghetti westerns about the trickster character that we have in italian Theater and it feels very much like the hyena. Is this type of trickster that we'd have in folklore for africa some of Kind of hyenas kind of demonic willow. The wisp lie in the league ties talking by rada is and join out into the night to be seen a gain in chad and that region. cer- africa. There's a common a belief of where wolves but it's like hyena like where. How eunice why the reason he feels about that because it would be hard inexpensive We really need. I would be much more scared of a hyena. Human hybrid than wolf human hybrid. I think just because of the i mean hyenas. Just the way that they're built is so fascinating with the shorter back legs than the front legs. Thank you i love. They're cute but they're little scary. Sometimes too i mean the laughter. The i mean. I've seen a lot of footage of them. Just light drooling like crazy as waiting to get their teeth into the karen. I mean i know who. I read an interview with the Talking about cowl. He's trying to use animals especially in hyenas to represent different people and hyenas. Don't necessarily kill really. That doesn't seem right to me. They are much more carrion. Feeders than active hunters. That's for sure. Do scare easily get and they garner they out. She can audits speak to a degree so that we see that in in in the main categories when it comes down to goltz events the going back to the high in fact like to the i always have to bring up that end the packs. If there is no dominant male the dominant female will grow a fake penis to late show. Her dominance in will enroll use it to like a show her command over like weaker males. That are trying to get her away. And that's to debate. Teapot to heinous medicine Somewhere i read that. He's in the board boarding. Backfield is yanni may integrate mentioned the only to feature films to keep and three and then hyenas in ninety will him back to pull the effort to get a feel may was that he wanted to find anta. They wanted to find this character and he found her in a play. Gold the visit and that the rich foreigner who comes back to caliban which is typically starts. In which raymond body grew up in and just reach woman comes back and they say the town. Please save the town where we need help of a and essentially she talked with her grevious Love when they were teenage ages Raped soulmate finder. The south who abandoned her screwdriver and She makes it pretty vicious deal and going back on watched hyenas and rewatch to hebrew. This is not a symposium on to absolutely not it you at was a great app into trivia relating tightening up because that's essentially what happens Embodies anta off being abandoned the world deter more inflated foam comes back having grown up to the rest of them is even down to the tiles site. This is hyena this hyenas flu one of the things. I love in the to feature films as the use of animals. assembles in the because both feature films open enclosed with the images of the same animal. That was in the beginning. So an tuckey buki. It's a her of cattle which we discuss the symbol of like Our house in ends with the hurtig with her two cattle. You could see as like the cycle just repeating eating all over again and has opened with the heard of elephant and then it concludes with a heard of elephant. Answers like this very symmetrical. Even those movies aren't straightforward narratives. They're still like a nice neatness of like opening and closing on the same image and that will make you think about like what image i know being way off in the wilderness of cinema. Too long. That all self about a typical annotating and non any narrative was complicated because it's it's a pretty straightforward film. It's a few random bits but at that time it certainly was a lot more Someone who this feature illnesses is incredible command of the fall because even though he is using these on experimental new wave techniques. Each's blends them. Pretty seamlessly said that it's even though at the time they jolt shock very out film and he has such a propulsion of. It's all sorts of martians. Joy anger just light. Who's you who to the next even if you'd like to get sewing dateable which is happening already being pulled into what's happening next and like it's so effortless and that's like the craziest thing it's it's like watching like ozone. Oh this is easy and then you think about it and it's like no it isn't this is. This is really hard to try to like. Pau everything going on as this much of this. And he's what with what. I saw reminded me of nevada. I g g of the hollywood films on who killed captain. Alex bad black. I'm about his last two films. That short films lefranc and Logger sold the sun those Continue semantically like The key themes of like The common Common people poverty that angle but Lefranc is basically Battiste take on a buster keaton or charlie chaplin. Type comedy i can see him being influenced by that i mentioned the keystone cops earlier very match. The scene with the cop directing traffic very much felt like it was right out of Amac senate comedy taty this. They like digest. Saudi doesn't really need dialogue of so much of his like the pure visual like buster. Keaton chaplain style comedy. In the other local sold the sun is like vastly different nisa a. Ll girl who's disabled. She has crutches because her Think one leg is to say. I forgot that condition but i'm and she wants to sell newspaper the the sun and she's told girls cancel newspapers and then She ends up talking to a lady who works in. Gartner says like girls can do anything poise canoe so then she tells the paper. But boys try to bully. You're out of it. But she persists in keeps trying and it's really wonderful movie about like per perseverance through You know as some that doesn't want you. It was his last film. he died before it. it got released. Think he died during post production. could he did finish. Finish filming us. Any of these fifties wasn't he. Yeah early fifty s i thank the disappoint dislike. Like what could have been like. I wish she could live now is to see what else he made. Sure to have been. Maybe like two more movies because he kinda worked slowly but still having those two movies would have been more than enough for me i. It's yeah haas our great but watching the to begin donnas in one way. It's just a beautiful circle. I like just fit together. Perfectly as a young man in the old man stating lot Of this part of the old tradition aspect isn't poked about sir readily from his talk about the genre films than films at lane into the ethnographic is. I felt a great sense of trying to hold onto memories in these films and some of those things that hold images longer especially around. He's harmed town and out like he was really leaning to letting the film show that space and soak it up and the whole the memory forever at its this fight out a light emotion underneath the film especially as once you find out about. This is the time town and everything is yet. It's atlantic's mattie de up's debut movie. Now as i say only saying the thousand sons the daca she did it trips till the a net flicks 'cause the cartoon announced they will release it at some point so i don't know when it's going to be so i try to get to it. Acp 'cause i don't know what's going to happen if they do release it when they need to release it. Atlantic's is kind. Takes a spirit of two kabuki but takes to now. And it's like this i could monitor version. But it combines like the tuckey buki Two young lovers angle but mixes it with like drunk carpenters the fog and And matty had did specify in multiple interviews. It's inspired by carpenters the fog. That's interesting because i think of the bad batch will watching this especially that dream sequences. They going through town. It was almost economist Memorial in bad batch words for lost the town where all the people join together to potty. Be happy in our k. And i don't is something about some of the images and the way it was presented in colonizing capitalism Really reminded me of At batch Simul an items well her iranian background. I wonder maybe she had come across the much. Travelled because especially this Had this story win was originally released in senegal. I can't find much on it. I know senegal has because there was that that are illegal that survived now. Like it's like son ben and messy and like a couple random others but there's a big movie scene in senegal seventies. It's just a lot of you can't access any more including the first black The first female black tractor to have a movie. I've released in theaters Safi faye and she was a contemporary of mbeki. Some ben in that whole crew people but like it's just not I think the the some of the summers are lost. Summer are just lake rights issues such as a slake I know i've got beat library. Random stuff helped me through my loss university without ever courage version. They libraries are decent collection. And i went looking for things. Autrey directly map film or relating to the country in area and came out with not and i very but it's it is has been Studies and everywhere. I looked in index and things like. I yeah cinema saudis. Life's to reference friends fan on that doesn't like to about africa. We is a lot. I have to admit to myself minded option to african cinema. Was gods must be crazy and arm for the pajamas. So hours go hang my hidden. Shame here but it wasn't my fault. It was the eighties nineties It was a lot more things. I don't know how. I missed hyenas. That came out. What ninety two ninety three. that's like. Okay i should have been aware of this movie. And i found hyenas to just be fantastic. You're talking about that quantum leap between the two films. I think you would agree that it's not necessarily a quantum leap as far as the themes and everything. It's just it's a little bit better made of a film and it is more of a straight ahead narrative being based off of a play. But amazing that you can take this play from germany and it fits with this material perfectly and also fits with this whole idea of this person coming in and paying people a lot of money and they just sell their souls and by the end of the film. The whole city is destroyed. There's nothing left of it. There's just a tree standing there and then the tracks of this big equipment that is raised it to the ground. I mean kit kit better when it comes to talking about colonialism i mean of course the main character or the female character that comes in is not the colonizer. She's one of them but she comes in from this land far away and has more money than the world bank and puts it all to us to enact revenge. I mean it was brutal but fantastic. Money is like the big evil thing that shows up in the to feature films and the two films that news career whereas the slake the need for money is is like the is like the worst thing in the world and causes so much pain and suffering in causes like late. It's the true evil of society in phoen- keeps showing up. It's the reason for everything about happened. All his movies is money with at scene of antennas. I'm not sure if it's her aunt or her mother with the tomatoes and peppers and then the woman comes by and it's like taking all this stuff and buying on credit. I mean that's almost the first scene of hyenas where we've got our main character and he's a working store and all these people are just like. Oh yeah i'll take this on credit and it just a for people listening at home so we've got our main character. The guy who runs a store and he's one of many people that live in this village villages not doing well economically to the point where the furniture in the city hall is being repossessed at the beginning of the film and of course the guy that runs the city hall is very upset about this and this woman comes to town and i don't know to ever find out what her professionals or was she at. It seems to me like she might have been an actress. She was in prostitution because of her. And then just said. She survived and made her fortune. Sir probably kroll public over a cool to get that won't somehow she lost a leg. It was a a plane accident and everybody died in the airplane accident except for her as an awesome singer. She's like everybody died. I cool now. I outtake. You'll get you usually like these yet. Who she's awesome. It took me well to to realize that one of her hands is not there There's a scene later on where she's holding her hand against her chest and i was like. Oh that's a that's a fake hand okay. Seem a little because oh wait your hands to gallard huma yet at the scene where he's talking to his friend at the store is like you're not going to sell out and get paid right and he's like no of course i'm not gonna i'm not gonna do that. And then like the next scene he He finds out it's A friend did sell out. But but you see like in his friend's house or wherever he has all his fancy stuff now and it's like how did he get the money for this. It's like oh and is literally. Craig ironic dark comedy One that's really task risk as he's just Dead man already do and real audience just like nice new yellow or the new helmets a thorough wearing yes. This woman comes to town and is like hey. I will give the town all kinds of money and i'll give you even more money if you kill this guy. So basically kill our main character because he had slept with her and left her pregnant in wrong her in the past and set her on this path but it is a path where she made all kinds of money and now can come back and inaccurate benge. It is fantastic. Because he's it kind of reminded me at one point of high noon. Especially i guess when the train was coming into the station or just about to pull out rather than him looking for the good people of the city that will help him. Fight these gun fighters. He's looking for the the people in the city who won't kill him because everyone turns against him almost immediately man. Yeah the gallows humor is wonderful because you know this guy is just aft and everybody in this town is just wants to screw each other over. In order to get money in betty himself plays a judge in it. Yes i love that. there's a lot of things. Where am i going to take this way. Say that way. What does this mean. Because the judge comes out and says that he was offered the job of being the rich woman's valet and appears to still be developed. Because like wait. It's the judge where jigger sir Oddity were for her ballet await. He's that doesn't make any sense. Eight i think he just his off valet while he was doing judge Wasn't and it was like. Actually the sounds like australian politics. Hyenas is almost like an episode of yes minister yes. Prime minister is sorry clyburn brilliant. I couldn't believe how could that film was. I mean even if folks don't wanna check out to keep hooky you must check out hyenas hit while it blew the top off my head with just how great the movie is. There isn't a little interesting detail in hyenas which i was just trying to find more details on it size but i was reading recently about how for a while and along. China has been going into a whole african areas and offering money to improve ours or infrastructure. And everything in exchange for the land rise and there is a young asian woman who is part of a millionaires entourage who just kind of lurks and designedly ever really sent to help times. And i don't think ever says anything now. She does at one point. The china thing shows up in a screen man when the best movies of last decade Shows up in this netflix. The burial kodro. that's a major theme. It shows up in some modern ones of the directly or indirectly talking about how china is involved in the economics of so many countries now and it's it's colonialism all over again one hundred percent yes because not only does she pay off all the people in this town but at one point. She says i bought the town. No i bought everything there. I bought the land. I bought the buildings. This is all mine so then she can do whatever the fuck she wants to by the end of this film which is destroy everything and we don't really see what happens to the people we don't know if they get to keep their electric fans or if they just are cast out penniless. I would think that it would probably be cast out penniless. Full-out and destruction of individual pettiness against the social group. Really strikes close to harm in this year l. Twenty twenty one. Yeah that was. That was pretty grim. I am. I watch the special film conscious city or the contrast yes. This is the first time it's ever been likud media arcade. Yeah i get what he's doing to the city symphonies particular like solloway almost version exotic version. The french liked to do But thinking back on it. That was the one that actually struck me as having the strongest gallows huma because so much of it is presented in the jovial. Travel log. flippant style where. It's told your dad as if it's like paris these the french dial up about on our way. This is a and it doesn't look anything like at because the at absolutely in that voice and that view it's actually like acidic city vaguely reminds me of her trauma more with a man woman angle in the city. Yeah last weekend. what's black. Caesar larry khan film and that was an interesting film. Had in the back of my head is always going in to tiki rookie at the two films. That they merit to american film is reminded me merced all one of the minds just lifted at by compilation design you. I would've said one of them. Like the definitely would have seen as those lighter. Gone john hayes like this esley. The use of sound like the use of sounding johnson has is riding lee similar to to Arts seventy three. It's early the clearly. The gone has had access to a lot more good equipment will be the experience at fis. Those two movies are like two movies. That like i. I'm trying to keep track of like a On larry boxton. Now there's a a radical black films that that in like so like it's too key. Buki hyenas contract has The spooks door Not by man. Oh come on charles. Oh yeah definitely that mining lola. Welcome charles. Well whited it's like yes in my youth emergency. These radical blacks are movies. That in generalists aren't discussed or easily available pretty much all of them. Like all i mentioned should be seen by everyone whether or not like if it's like something that that you're into like the give hazardous shot. Give to keep ukio shock. Give the spookiest up our door shot. Watch the late show like these aren't laker. It's it's good to have you know like tyler. Perry stuff whatever rican like that. But there's this whole world of radical black film though challenging structure and being acidic in mean-spirited and. It's like showing like the like you know the the truth in different ways in some funny sums of setting but like it's as these are for me extremely important in so that's kinda like i'm so obsessed with having these movies available and trying to find an outlet to like talk about them in right them one. It's so unfair to that. We're even just kind this african cinema month because you know it's like the european cinema month okay while you're talking like iceland or albania or in in each of those brings us such completely different films. You know you look at like a hungarian films like okay. Well now. I really need to put this in terms of where was hungry at the time. And when was this event in. How is the speaking to this here. I'm just like yeah. African films all fucking continent. That's what three times as big as europe. So it's like senegal. Has its own politics to itself Things that happened in two car are different than things that happen in the hinterlands in each one of these countries has its own thing going on so it is very unfair to just cast a blank and be like yeah. african cinema. four films is not going to cover african cinema. I mean this is a wealth of all these countries all of these different filmmakers all of this different cinema. This is a mountain to climb so at least we're like not even getting to basecamp for like thinking of climbing the mountain by like circling around with a few of these films but yet this is a wealth of thing you could and i hope people have you can have a complete podcast dedicated to the films of any one country from africa much less africa overall. I was actually just going to suggest to restart a nigerian on cost. Because they on average make more films than hollywood every year and we would be set for the rest of lives and they have to try and find out that that actually trying to line them because old largely distributed through a Loose pirate network. That's more official distributors. because once again Tom out there. It's like even cartoon. They have five african films now baby. I think that this would be more well nine now if any do syndrome had released it more than criterion. Because i actually think that this is more has more than five and a stylistic intent and organised that feels a lot more like the stuff i watch Stop watching criterion by kino had does a pretty decent job sometimes than There's milestone films but in general is like the the american aren't really focusing too much on africa. It's ns was some way like Actually can be earnest because they all. It'll be smaller less than To that film. Whereas it's the same criterion love. This case i mean i know i love the tension that has still just gets lost like this other many great hot here in films that just disappeared enhancing blue or anything in that so basically. It was a couple of the in adjusting to so just announced Clearly like pancakes or she'd be darned have enough african slash black films quick. What do we got. What's easy to release now and people will buy okay It's so obviously from what they were on amazon panic Over years for of black films compared goods like what maybe constantly ten to fifteen black films total out of over a thousand in only one annoy via by a black woman. They don't even have daughters of daughters dust which is fucking crazy the lake. That's like perfect for. I don't keep up much with mons cassese He's got a good. I for your. He restored salako he. He's responsible for that. That's one of the morrison box sets in its. Yeah i'm glad that marty seems to realize that there's more than just you know old films to are and have some european films that need restoration. That he actually does seem to put his money where his mouth is play. Okay yeah let's do. This contemporary film that very very much is connected. Diana's until uber venus themes installs exta. Nature's sorry to hear pat kind of fascism surrealism like assert comedy but also the light. The way is just the hyenas the way that the community experiences. This horrific terrible event is operatives. Wally individuals of light threatened backwards and forwards. In and even down to the teas partnering is very much like enter in to kind of like antidote inside this bullshit but a lot of On this bullshit. China they do smart job in to keep okay because they were obviously limited by the budget a lot of time so you can see some of the seems you know. That's what reminded me. Also the french new wave things like the tracking shots and cars down the street and then when the car stops you see the camera kind of move a little bit or the shot of the motorbike That's been crashed and you can see you around. It looks like it was shot with fish lens. A little bit so you can see the a little bit of the lens or lens protector. I guess around the sides. And i'm like okay. Yeah these are just like little rough edges but also the really smart thing was to not necessarily show people when they talk all the time into us. Some voice over. So it's like. Oh god you don't have to worry about sync sound that way. I mean at least it wasn't when these i'm turning member. We watch the movie recently. Where if a person was talking there would be on the river shot and then when that person talks they would cut to the reverse shot so you never really saw people move their lips with audio coming out. It was very cost saving to just do it all post. I know it was Gone in sixty seconds did a lot of that and a lot of voice over to say l. And then we're going to rob this imbaba's so that you didn't have to worry about zinc so i thought it was very well done in this movie that they said we're going to do these things and it comes together really well and then the look at hyenas near like okay. This is a regular movie like they had sound equipment. They had all of these things. This is shot. Like you know a regular and i put that in quotes movie so okay. That's great but i a lotta times prefer the rough edges. I prefer that stuff. Like you're seeing yeah. We talked about Brazilian cinema two years ago. And it's like seeing those rough edges in those earlier. Brazilian films like these guys are making movies. Despite everything in the world telling them that they shouldn't be making movies. Hyenas is on blu ray through hino. I have the old. Dvd from twenty years ago. That looks not great. But it bits good enough. But the blu-ray ray is out there and The bigger more famous ones are streaming typically. But it's kind of hit or miss Which ones are do get streaming princeton which by alas thing is been bootees for me. It's one of my favorite filmmakers. He's one of my favorite as pure artists of the twentieth century. Even though he didn't do much it's everything he did do. The sun's pretenders felt like it like touches my soul. And it's like. It's i find his movies like almost like spiritual and like is for me as a revelation of when i first discovered ambati and so i fully understand all his movies still but like there's something like it's fully connect with me and he. This lake is one of my favorite artists like period at the talk. Merged to the filmmakers in senegal who were is email old up where would guard. The natural england was going study in russia. The soviet film academy gay that it was very common for people from africa. Something not that the politics of communism and everything but that was when i went to studied primarily and so because he obviously eight-member Wind did this independently at mentha. He was free vers enforced traditions and free of having to address or support communism. Which pretty much all went to the school. They were ahead. Servia style. Filmmaking drummed into them is how you do it and they also Anticommunist anything like that s. inc a us a montage skill. I think i'd need to read a bit more watch ons because like the scene. Where is that. She's masturbating Being slaughtered it's is that hume keeping a bit up to eisenstein the montage or maybe not up yours but subverting it or trying to like the greatest so i like to take the communists like beautiful communication techniques. They're all tradition. And just kind of wanna so much in. This film youths the A early on the there's a group of sound like universities students and they grab him in a timed that they take the horns. Until i and it's actually my time like this title the cattle. They can hear the movie yeah. It's it's really quite intense in a moment forcing the second time was really clear Saturday are they all wearing western-style clothes his his neuro kind connection traditions in colleges resented and part of the communist reading group or whatever that anti is also off. So there's another little interesting connection there where they Fringe a communist french leaning single students so they attack on him as multiple lila's of meaning Alamein as everything is feels like it has some meaning just have to figure out what it was in relation to the time plays and it's fun and it's very rewarding as well. We're going to take a break and play preview for next week. Show right after this brief messages. And i want you to start living a happier life today as a listener of the projection booth. You will get ten percent off your first month at better. Help dot com. That's better help. H. e. l. p. 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So if you wanna listen to even more conversations on film head on over to culture cast dot com or find it all pod catchers full android and less programmable team a more jimmy dean cottee young typically betty. Don't slow the secretion tone mom it. We'll be back next week with a look at the film durant until then. I don't to think this week's coho and spencer. So ben what has been keeping busy sir just finished up working on an upcoming israeli. Tv show called the. It's about the twenty nineteen twenty twenty some of bush pies. We had hyun australia with a lot of those changes in body was remember. It's a six part miniseries running some parts production stuff on it had at. It's gonna be really interesting to say it's been a while since we've had national conversation with ourselves in such a way like richard rox randa alter and sam worthington a couple of friends of mine actually in it which is positive working. He looked at the neck just wrapped in the moment. Just join us vibe lockdown five delta and all that stuff while still being essential worker in television production which is interesting if you wanna hear me completely vent my insanity enraged In twitter at dissolve at two what. It sounds life when all that which in and spencer. How about yourself. What's new in your world my blog site wherever you call it. Jailhouse seven zero one japanese cult cinema. I have ten more things planned for it. And then i'll be done. I'll know i will add anything else to cause hook and focus on my african history site that red black and green Celebration mac and hit a celebration african history. it's doing research. It takes a while and democrat took mental toll. So i'll get back to that at some point but So those two an my podcast shoot pam player french new. Todd cast this august though. This'll be contempt. So you get to hear me be indifferent and try to avoid talking about. 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Episode 534: Dakan (1997)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:20:43 hr | 2 months ago

Episode 534: Dakan (1997)

"An airwave media podcast. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast. You hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws. Like jesse james butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache we use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple. Podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. All told with cinematic music sound design subscribed for free on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you're listening now show people say could to see this movie. When they go to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring dr Let me not at all record india. She admitted she fatty his chevy bake bloomberg's intercontinental in. I'm dan All of them guinea caribbean got. Kill me jammie police up by to to combine to his one millennial can why did remove his welcome to the projection booth. I'm mike whiteman we once again. Is mr krista shoe. Mike thank you as always for pushing my cinematic boundaries as much as you can and i always appreciate it. I am glad to be here and joining me for this month. Is mr spencer. Seems thank you for inviting for months. African cinema month continues with a look at con directed by muhammed camera. It's the story of two men manga and story guinea. Who are in love. Everyone and everything tries to tell them that they shouldn't love one another including mangas mother and stories. Father we will definitely be spoiling this film as we go ahead. You have been warned so spencer. When was the first time you saw khan. And what did you think it would have been. Aw a dot and who's on fan door somebody on there. It's all this on video of people want to watch it. Yeah i was watching raffarin films. I stumbled into this one. It's grown on me like i It's favourite it's not super watchful because it's kind of tragic but it's still just say It's one that i really like in. I like more and more Chris about yourself. What did you think i know. It wasn't intentional. That you had me on the show. Mike as someone who is bisexual and i know. We've joked about it. I came at this from a different angles spencer. I don't know your sexuality sending my business as someone who is open and bisexual as someone watching this movie. It was at times heartbreaking at times massively uncomfortable and at other times massively relatable similar to derive in a way it touches on some stuff that this area of the world especially this topic even now has a very hard time dealing with africa's stance a countries stances on homosexuality is really bad as bad as any of the eastern european countries like russia in regards to their treatment of lgbtq a plus. Yeah it was honestly. This movie was a lot like a lot a lot. I had to stop at a couple of times. I watched it twice. But it's there's a lot going on. I'm excited to talk about it. But yeah it's it's a pretty heavy movie. Yeah i'm research. I was going through like Countries with ultra bt. He writes stuff. And i found like a a for who did the list but it was like a score of like laws and conversion therapy stuff like that and a lot of african countries are at the bottom and i was not surprised. No i mean similarly to what we talked about in derived with the country of chad in its massive amounts of corruption. Unfortunately there is still a cultural. Push to denounced deny rebuke homosexuality. And this i mean you see a lot in this movie so this film came out in nineteen ninety seven which was the year that the story of brokeback mountain was written. I say it's funny. Because as i'm watching the movie. I just kept thinking of brokeback mountain. Because of the idea of these two guys. I mean with that one. It is two older gentlemen who are kind of already set in this pattern of their life. They're not necessarily old but they're in their twenties and just kind of like figuring stuff out still though they're being pushed in this heterosexual lifestyle type of thing. I just found it very ironic. That if anything in. This didn't necessarily informed brokeback mountain but it could very much be seen as like the african brokeback mountain. I guess it would be like a brokeback kilimanjaro. I will say it's a good companion piece again. It speaks to like you said mike. It speaks to similar themes maybe not entirely the same once. Definitely not exactly the same cultural ones because again will. I'm sure we're going to get into it. But there's a lot of cultural subtexts going on throughout this movie especially with the usage of the music the traditional guinean. I would assume gideon. But i'll just say african music. There's a lot going on here. Almost more so than brokeback mountain in many ways. Because brokeback mountain. Kind of again. This movie and brokeback mountain dew. Lack subtlety. i think that's one thing that i would. I was reading reviews of people were like. This movie lacks subtlety. That's kind of the point. There's no beating around the bush here with homosexuality when it comes to. The african continent like spencer said almost all the african countries are at the bottom. This is a known issue throughout the subcontractor the continent and then the countries within the continent as a whole so it's getting slowly better Like it's gained decriminalize in some countries and and sudan had a death penalty for gay sex in the repeal that law last year so it's overall things are inveterate still it's their fifth behind and you can trace it till colonialism with like the forcing her shanty on people plus like the how like a lot. A conservative christian by la churches in his country go to africa in day shreds spreader gospel. Whenever and sometimes gospel some phobic and so the problem will never end pretty much which is kind of the sad thing while i mean in this country within the last hundred years. We've had sodomy decriminalized in many states. Sodomy was a crime. Might still be on the books. I'm i would wager a guess. It probably is. Yeah there's a difference between repealing the law versus enforcing the law. Yeah marijuana is technically federally illegal. But the federal government's not knocking down doors in people's houses in colorado so enforcement verses. Maybe they are. I don't know i think i think it depends on the color of their skin to sure does. Doesn't it this movie yes. It is not necessarily that subtle. But i appreciate that. It doesn't pussyfoot around things we've talked about characters being coated gay or possibly open gay charlie character to keep ilke. I wanna talk about that first. Second the gay character that mike. You consider charlie character homophobic little bit. I mean it felt very much. Like here's this gay guy. Let's rob him but at the same time. It's not like anyone's exploiting him. It's definitely not like the cops are not listening to him. It's not like the cops are coming over to charlie's place in busted his head. They are very responsive to his complaints. Channel death i can wake can fanatically make sense of the geic with the joke of that character's kinda wake they wind really the iffy part of like. I don't know how to feel about this exactly. It's funny but also like i. I don't know if you could do that today. The character his character specifically reminds me a little bit. And i know this is a strange place to go. But he reminds me a little bit of a character from my own private idaho. I believe it was. The guy who got really turned on by river phoenix cleaning his house. For whatever reason. Charlie just had that same energy to me. I've never seen that movie. I've never seen either these movies. But of the to the one that i theoretically would have had the better chance of seeing. I have not seen might be a double feature. Is that river phoenix. Movie worth watching my own private. I know it's like his magnum opus. Yeah i remember really liking it when i saw it. I don't know if it holds up one. This one like i was saying it's not super subtle which i appreciate that we start off with our two main characters in a car making out so immediately i'm thinking of like you know inspiration point in those kind of things like is this a known out area. Are they making out someplace. Where they're known versus not are the hidden. These kind of things. Like i've seen turner remember what movie i was watching just recently where was like gay men in park kind of thing and just like god. We're gonna get busted here in this park type of scenario. I was wondering. Are they worried about that. It's also interesting to that when they go to school because these are high school level kids at the beginning of the film when they go to school. It's pretty known that they are gay or at least that story is gay and he gets chase down and made fun of. It's not violent but he's definitely being chastised for being gay and the way that the girls of this like oh do you take it up the poop chute and i'm just like a god and then even outside of school like it's pretty like all right. Let's just go up to this guy's car jump in. They're not really hiding it. Which i like. I said i appreciate that. I was kinda surprised by that. I expected when. I put this movie on again. Like you like you said. Mike and i try to cold to that best i can. I try not to do research ahead of time. I did the research after. Because i want to go win with no expectations and i did not expect that the movie was just gonna open with that. My expectation was very different because again i expected that this movie was going to spend time setting up. This is essentially immediate. Res- i mean we're coming in. They're already in a relationship which i wasn't expecting but like you said i think i think one of the smartest things that the director does is open the film with the two main characters being intimate with one another because it sets the tone of the movie from the gecko. This movie is like you said it's not going to be subtle. It's going to be up front and honest and it wants the audience to be able to see the directors honesty on screen and challenge there on. I mean this movie is about challenging our beliefs not ours. Yes culturally but obviously who it's being made for. He's wanting to challenge their beliefs about what it means to be. You know homosexual especially in africa. So it's i appreciate the lack of subtlety at the beginning. Because it sets the tone outright in the movie opens. It's the overhead shot looking into the car and then they cut to inside the car so like starts like this feeling like someone's watching. Then it's like the pathetic to like the intimacy of the two boys which like that really hit hard. This time of like a speed like immediately your turn into layer relationship and then it's matter of like trying to figure out who these two guys are with. Their relationship is to one another and then also seeing how that outside world is affecting them. I found it very interesting. That sewri we own the his father and a manga. We only see his mother. So it's like there's always that missing parent in both relationships which i found to be kinda fascinating. I don't know if if we're supposed to infer from that that because there's a broken family that that's why these kids are gay. I hope that's not the message. But i just interesting that both of them had missing parents in the relationships. I the way i personally interpreted. It was because they had that missing part of the equation. It allows this equation to be inherently lopsided notice the amount of stress and pressure that souris father puts on him. And there's no release now the father and that he doesn't beat him up but he beats it into him like this is what i have set aside for you to do. This is what i have done for you and you are going to do it. And that's an immense amount of pressure and then on carr's mother does the exact same thing. What's weird is i think. What the intent of that kind of dichotomy was showing that regardless of the gender of the parent. The message is being the same. And it's unfortunate that yeah like you said you don't get to see another person. Come in and say well. Maybe maybe weird being a little too hard here. Maybe you're because there is no the release about without another parent. It's just that one parents message the entire time that you get is mangas uncle. Who's like you really probably shouldn't be doing this. But it's my sister and she really wants this done so then we'll do this. Quasi conversion therapy thing. The angle feels like the class commentary of one has his father and his rich when his mother and his poor. I was reminded a little bit of monty python. Skit while watching this. There's the the skit about the father who was a poet and his son wants to go work in the minds Which is you know turning everything on. Its head our expectations on suit now. It's just an ordinary suit father. All i've got apart from the overalls down. The mind can not too bad mom using some. New tungsten carbide drills for the preliminary coalface carrying operations. That sounds nice to student. Carbide through carbide drew something they using coal mining farmers. Something using the of bloody fancy top singer left. London day did is new playoff. Is it national theatre tomorrow. Don't go well do you know about it. What do you know about molin to fly to paris. Back at the old vic for drinks at twelve deidra prenton television interviews then getting ten the rest of the problem of sexual maniac drug addict involved in the ritual murder scottish footballer working day and you forget you does show the boy. Stig wasn't good enough for you. Got to go off. The bonzi coal-mining full mining is a wonderful thing there. But it's something you'll never understand. Just look at you these off the few nobles outwit was. Yeah i'll tell you what's wrong with you your heads with novels poems you come home every evening. Reeling shut down to autozone. Look what you've done to mother. She's worn out with meeting film styles attending the ass. Wrong way lack gallon the new business. What is this crap about this. We didn't live to kenny. Our women just getting out of there. This kind of felt like that to me because souris dad is like oh. You're going to go to university and you're going to take over my company and yadda yadda yadda ansari's like. No i wanna be a farmer in. I just wanted like live off the land and do this kind of stuff. No no. you're going to go to university. So is is very. And i like that when he is trying to put sorry on what he considers the straight narrow path he immediately goes to that. Oh you're going to go to university like we're going to break this relationship by you going to university. And then only after. He talks about these expectations then does he say like you shouldn't be gay. That's wrong and just you know really lays it down that way like i found it interesting that he comes to that secondarily whereas mangas. Mother is just like no boys. Don't like boys like that No one has ever since the time of that man. I you know came from the primordial swamp. Just like nope no. It doesn't exist since time in memoriam. This is not a thing. I can tell you with absolute certain. Data's she seems a little out of touch. I would say almost entire society around them is out of touch. It's almost like we're looking in on everything. Like you mentioned spencer looking down on the car we're looking in on their relationship from afar and the society is kind of the is kind of in circling them and constantly pushing them in pulling them away in towards one another. I love that introduction of the mother character with manga the way that we see him in the background and her in the foreground maybe an over the shoulder shot and that we kind of reverse that and she's suddenly on the other side of the screen and he's up front. I really thought that camera was doing a really good job of framing. These things and i mean overall spoilers. But i thought that the film was very well shot and very well put together part of movie that i find fascinating that so i want you guys opinion on it. Is the director mohamed kamara. So his previous short films are about taboos. One is child suicide. One is the incest so he liked to challenge people's beliefs. And so sometimes. I feel i. I wonder like what's his intent lake. Genuine like he cares about gay issues and lake picture facing his people or does he just want to lake challenged people and see in challenging taboos of society. Like i'm not sure like how genuine his intent is at the same time. I i really liked this movie. I'm kind of curious. Your guy's opinion on on that. I can see if you're going to push taboos. Maybe you're not necessarily being as sincere as possible like maybe that that can be one way to look at things. but then i look at somebody like Like todd haynes whereas just like yeah no. I'm gonna continue to push booze with whatever. Obviously i don't like incest and suicide to homosexuality i mean maybe he's just exploring stuff or maybe might just be a provocateur. But i have no problems with that. I curious what your where you lean. Spencer because i i actually understand exactly what. You're what you're getting at because the way the movie ends i think kind of it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth but it did feel like what were you getting at this entire time because i mean again i don't want to the ending but to answer your question without talking about the ending directly when the film ended the the way i interpreted kind of the way the film ends colors the rest of the film for me in a lot of ways and the problem i have is did feel a little odd that the movie just kinda ends like that without doesn't even feel hopeful it just feels like what felt like mohammed calmer was saying was the homosexuality gets in the way a little bit. That feels provocateur. Ish less approaching and having to have an interesting conversation. Which i think this is an interesting conversation to have but it feels a tad like he doesn't have anything to say. But it's definitely provocative. I kind of came away from it saying Maybe it wasn't being used in a way that was entirely trying to really challenge people's views as it were not only. Is he dealing with a gay relationship. But then he's also dealing with the whole black white relationship by actually having a white woman in the film and then as a scene say graphic but it's pretty frank a knee or sex scene between white woman and a black man which i don't think you see in african cinema all the time of the ones we've covered so far. Think this the first time a white character isn't explicitly bad or like a cartoon character. This is the first time it was like oh like mu she the actual person who like like you know feelings and lake kohl's were like the the jungle boy and I took yabuki like that's cartoon character making fun of like you know. White people like owed africa to kill elephants and and whatnot. And you know then derive. I don't think you see why people at all. Not that. I remember at least it's an important movie for queer cinema. Let's not get that twisted. I mean it is a very important fail because again it is the first film of its kind period You know from africa's and that's again there were people who protested this movie big man. I mean that's that's the kind of climate that this film was being made and so it is an important movie. Do i think it is the best film to have a frank discussion about homosexuality and how it affects heterosexuality and heterosexual norms and expectations from older generations. I don't think so. But i think it's an important movie for a lot of other reasons. That detraction does not diminish the quality of the fill. This like a wishy. Washy answer. But i'm down in the middle because some half that like the this watch if fell more genuine but last watch it felt like our no. Maybe he's just trying to provoke people. But i like it kinda like i'm not really sure what like what his ways his was intentions. Were i think we would all agree. He was trying to be provocative period. There's i don't think there's a question of that. We basically said. I'll say he is a hetero man he had the he has a wife and children. I think why his point is. Kids is in the movie or his brother is in movie. Can't remember which it was again and it doesn't make the movie worse for me. It's just come element that kind of has to be discussed when you when you talk about this movie. Does he play the father character. He's the dad. His performance was really good. And it's interesting that he hasn't really. He directed the two shorts and the feature film. But other than that. I don't think he's directed anything and he's mostly known for his acting though he hasn't done anything. Awhile killed his filmmaking career. That's kind of a shame. It is but same time. I'm not really surprised. Because like looking at like tuckey buki and he and his like those are provocative but they don't challenge like religion that much in this skits too challenging like christianity and like religion internal this. I feel like that kind of really led to like him. Not really ever make another movie again and i love to see like another movie for him. This will only feature he ever got to make which i love to see him grow and do other stuff in like making like a more normal movie because he clearly has the skills to make a a a good movie. I do agree though. Spencer to your point if you make this movie you're putting your career on the line at one points story collapses and i think it's too scenes slater manga throws up and then collapses. Are we supposed to think that they have something physically wrong with them. Or is this just love sickness or like why are these two throwing up of course in passing out. Of course the first thing the pass through my mind was aids but obviously would get much worse than that. It's not just a passing out type of disease. So i i don't know what you guys think about how they both were passing out in film. This movie felker. Melodrama felt like almost like douglas. Sirkin with the how dramatic things get. Even though it's like it's the energy is low key but like what happens is kind of like wifi. Life is melodramatic. As i took that as like you know like love sickness more or less. I kind of see where you went. Mike and i was kind of in that same boat of lakers is. This are again. Because i had no idea where this is going so like are they. Is this where they're going. I mean again. The aids epidemic. This country is bad. What is bad and then in africa. It's worse way. Worse way worse i thought about it but i think yeah dispensers point. I think it's just like really trying to again lack of subtlety. I think that's like if i i would say that. That's probably it's just like a like you said like love. Sickness just overwhelmed with emotion to the point of like. Upsetting myself physically. I guess i can see that. Especially when i think about that in terms also of the mother character who at one point collapses and then she ends up in a wheelchair. I thought that was like very soap. Opera esque the way that that went down. I was kind of while that was happening. And then there's the point where they're like. Oh yeah your mom. I don't think they even say anything to him. He's paralyzed that's yeah airlines. Now it's like i. I'm glad you were kind kinda confused. Because i was like. His mom paralyze now from what and i think. It's the uncle is talking to a character and says we haven't told him all you know the truth or whatever and that was two years ago and then we cut to Bongani scott that very obviously fake moustache that his time has passed. Yeah that mustache was was real bad nobly. No that was the cheapest cheapest make makeup effects that they could use. Put it way and take ridiculous thing off. I took the mother angle as the melodrama. Anc up like talking about like 'cause it doesn't make sense. We never learned the truth but that does feels like like douglas sirk in thing to do of liking she's paralyzing wheelchair now because she sobs that with her son's romance with another boy. That's what i where. I thought it was going. It was like you know to use a bad example. Like in waterboy where the mama fades. It's like i'm so angry with you. That i'm going to like put myself into a position where it's like. Either you fix this or will stay like this forever which is insanely manipulative. Than if you're in that position right now in your life you need to talk to someone. 'cause that's massively manipulative and i mean that's that's the way i took it in this movie. I didn't take as she's actually in a wheelchair but maybe she actually is. It's a hell of a long con if it's not homosexuality. Is the devil coach klein and he likes me back. Waterboy ladies and gentlemen for the twenty percents that whole thing going on with the rituals around trying to get manga nappy. Gay any more that women taking the mud bath and flailing around looks like a graveyard or something. It was just like it was pretty intense and as she's doing this i'm just like okay. This is pretty much. I guess a version therapy like gay conversion type of stuff but this brand of that. My favorite thing was when they were like. I will help him. If this rock floats that is the most pumice porous piece of rock. I have ever seen. Do not try to put one over on the. I mean i know what they're doing but it's like it's like self-fulfilling prophecy. Nonsense where it's like. I if this works. I'll do it and it's like you already do going to work like come on. I love it though. Like it's gingerly. It's which doctor like you know. That's that whole thing. Where it's like if i would the dowsing rods like it's like this is a little different but it's that same like okay. Like think of them. A michele bachmann in her husband had like the facility or whatever the conversion therapy center then mike pence. Have one or some shit. Expensive thinking of mike pence has gone through the conversion. As far as i remember. Yeah they really played that down. It actually goes through conversion therapy. That's what i thought. I remember like before the election really got into full. Swing was hearing that and then just like how virulently anti gay he was. Her probably still is i was just like wow This seems a little suspect to me. I mean if someone hates gay people that much clearly. They're hiding nothing. Yes yes caresse. This is completely on the level. There is no subtext here in your right. As far as like the circassian over towns this. I mean just the way that time passes. I mentioned that two years to that just suddenly passes and then the way that we shift locations suddenly and we're back in the city and now manga has a job Working like in a fishery and then only to find out that who owns the fishery while it story and his dad and so there's that like very convenient thing and then we're introduced to this other character the white girl that we're talking about who yet i i thought i was like. She's supposed to be an african person or what's going on because she speaks french but she also speaks the local language. He works in the stalls. She seems very into the customs and everything. If you ever hands she has like a certain nail thing like her fingertip. So it's like that's the key Like that that the first time after like okay. She's clean some tourists. she's clearly a local person. Who's esino part of community. She's living in life. Yeah nobody seems to question that she's this white girl. Nobody seems to be like get the fuck out of here girl what he doing around here and that she was raised by an african woman that she who was a wet nurse and then her mom and dad had passed away or at least her mom had passed away. She's a fascinating character to me and the role that she plays trying to be that branch for manga to normalize and putting that in quotes for the listeners. Home normalize and become heterosexual that whole relationship and like that. It's kind of the core of the second act of the film because it is fascinating. It's not a black woman. A white woman that so it's like another. You know only taboo of you know. He went from Homosexual to now is us with a you know white. European woman and i get a sense of people will judge him for but there's still a sense of lake like that's a that's a bold choice to make for the movie and i think it's kind of the only choice that they could have made the director. Because i think it just i think it further reinforces kind of what's going on in this movie and a lot of again. I think it's a it's a. it's we're going back to this thing of subtlety. I think having it be a white woman as the secondary part of conversion therapy almost. It's very interesting again. It plays with kind of what we were expecting this movie to do where we were expecting this movie to go again. I didn't go into this movie. Even knowing that there were any white actresses white actors in it. So when i saw this white actress on screen i was very surprised and then her being kind of a massive part of the film was was very interesting and mike. It's it's definitely one of the more interesting relationships in the film production. I never noticed before kind of a joke. Because it cuts the city in a gravestone. And it's like oh shit is his mom dead. That's like oh no this new characters. yeah and she's very tied to his mother that she's even pushing her wheelchair. I'm like okay. So i guess she's kind of the moms caregiver now. This is interesting so and then it's very. Yeah no you should meet my son. He's perfect for you and they're just pushing that this relationship happens. The whole angle of like the force relationship is like every time. I want to get more tragic because like you see. He is trying so hard and and like i'm not sure if you guys suspected it fall apart like every time i see it. I know it's gonna fall apart is always feel so sorry for For new every single time. Yeah i feel very bad for her when they have. That aborted lovemaking scene. Because she's trying her best. I like that scene where she's standing in front of the mirror kind of evaluating yourself valuating her press and just kind of taking stock of herself before she goes forward with this relationship and that they have this attempt to have sex and he keeps flashing over to memories of hand. Sorry and at one point. She's just like yup. I'm getting no reaction here. What house going on and that amazing line when she gives up and says visit. I thought you weren't going to wear dress anymore. Oh okay. I don't know if that's just like a colloquialism or what's going on. I interpreted as a colloquialism she he. She says that you'd promise you never wear address and yeah. I interpreted it as a very interesting colloquialism that i had never heard before. Maybe it's not that but that scene that moment it could be the translation of this. I i know a little bit of french. I know enough. That can follow like certain. Like if i hear french movie i can. Maybe follow like a sensor to in there there a couple moments in this real like. I realized how much french light kind of new kazlas lives apart. Were Souris dad is telling him no. You're the best but the word frenchies better so it's like That's all we are translation. Ace they they switch it. That and then another points on french says some. You're better than this but they don't but these different words so know this translation is kind of interesting of like what they chose to Youth in english over you like direct translation their stuff about bracelets and hair that i wasn't necessarily following like she she puts on a bracelet and it's got words on it and i wasn't sure what the word said before she says the beach no I wou puts on a bracelet. Like as they are about to part ways before she says. Don't forget about me at thought. There were words on there and then yeah for sure when they're on the beach and i think it's like his mother. Mangas mother says to him. You're no longer my son. You banished forever but then she buys a bracelet and does that bracelets say take care of my son or is this just her saying that to him. I wasn't following. It was the one that says. Take care of my son okay. The bracelet that she buys that that the mother buys okay and then she says this is for sorry the leap from her rejecting her son to accepting him is. It's strange but at the same time. I i buy it. 'cause like she's the parent who's more open minded and cheese more. Shed have much better life like see like her. There's not much going on. In like she clears lose her son and so on some level. I don't think she believes what she's saying but she also i think she just wants to have some some later with her son. 'cause like there's you know what will given like. There's not much of her having personal life or relationship with anyone the way i interpreted that. Because it'd be yeah you're right my goes from. You're no longer my son. You're banished forever to the next seed. They go to the bracelet. Vendor the way i interpreted. It is is just like look at. You're not my son anymore. You're banished forever. But i cannot completely send you out back into the world without this putting this energy back to you to give to him him him big story. It's a very weird cognitive dissonance thing. Like but like you hear about it with kids that come out to their parents and you hear about the parent being like you know. You're not my fucking kid anymore but like still care about you. It's just different now. That's the way i interpreted it again. That's me viewing at the very different leads in. The film is being made through but trying to find a closer analog for personal experiences of myself and others. it's interesting it a common thing and it is a sad and upsetting thing. But at the same time it happens and renting. It's i'm glad that they you know. The director captured it. Pretty pretty simply. Frankly reminded me of polly given henry. That what one hundred and sixty dollars. Who's like not gonna combat. That's exactly what it is. It's that exact like now. Go away forever. But here's like here's my little partying. So that i don't leave you out in the cold right. There's that moment kind of going back a little bed where mangas going these trying to go to the factory. There's the stuff going on about like his fish in the prices and he wants to make more money and like i said the father of sewri is the one that owns his fish factory. And surrey's working there that whole thing of the father trying to keep mongo away from sorry. It's like a screwball comedy for like. Five minutes is just dropped in here with him running down the stairs and the way that he you know mr x. Sewri and like puts his arm around him and walks up the other way it was just like where is this coming from. I enjoyed it. But i was just like wow. I didn't expect the movie to go walkie for a few minutes. There some comedy here and there but that that's like the route link like if you like it was written as they at the county seen yet almost felt like a french farce for a few minutes. There like puerta and not subtle. The thing is the class aspect of one is poor one is Rich in stresses in a suit and dress very western. His home is always lit with lamps and electric lights. And the one who's pours always natural light. It's always dark and a house. One has a future in one has a feature. I'd like this touches on a whole lot of things. It makes me question where the hell sewri is. Living at the end like is that has house that maga comes to when he meets sewri and sary's wife and baby because it just feels like there's nothing in that house almost like it was abandoned and they just happened to be standing there. There is a line early on where sources come back to my home village site think. That's his home village in. That's and he's out are we. Don't know like what choices he made. So i can only assume that maybe have a like a home and home village. May he worked for his dad doing something but he's happened to be as other home but i'm not really sure. It was strange because i was under the impression that he was well off because he was working with his father. And i was expecting like Continue that like very clear. Delineation between the rich and the quote rich and poor. And they don't and it's like you know kind of speaks to something that we can have really mentioned but while this movie is about story in manga. It is very much mangas story. It is not souris story as much as it's mangas. Because we follow mangas story through. I would say the better part of the second act. I mean the second act the second. I almost the second and third acts pretty much. The second and third actor almost completely told from the following manga and how he goes to the conversion therapy. And then he's you know with ohio and that relationship sewri is just like he's just kind of off in the distance Like if it was a play you would see him standing at the very back of the stage or off to the side and like a window or something. he's not a substantive. Part of this film passed the first act which is an interesting choice because you would have thought there would be more things to mind by having the characters be kind of omnipresent throughout the story as part as opposed to one of them being the sole focus and the other one's just off doing god knows what even when they meet at the end. If feels like this is probably just a fashion of the time kind of thing. But the way that souris wearing that cap. And he's got the overalls on and they scott. Only one of the things done on the overalls. I was like taken back to the mall in the nineties. Type of thing like seeing kids where the one strap undone overall thing but to me. He kind of looks like a hobo. At that point of just like the fall on hard times i just was like what's going on because he's living his father's dream at that point right. He's i think still working for his dad. He probably went to university. He definitely has a girl and he's got a kid you know he's proven that he can conquer homosexuality so feels like he should be living on easy street but then yeah he's just in that like grass thatched house in super dim in there. But i guess maybe that's just his his village home versus his home home. It feels like his dad would probably wanna put him up in more of a bungalow. You know spencer you when you ask that question earlier about. Is the director camera. Have anything to say about homosexuality. As you being a provocateur. I think i've answered my own question as to why felt that because it's manga story and they don't share the screen because we don't see them share the screen very much passed the first act. I'm not sure what he's getting at. But he's not telling us the whole story because when manga shows up at the end of the movie he is home wrecking that families relationship. What he does. I understand that they're in love. I understand that there. You want to be together. But the way he plays it is so worry has not been a part of the story at all for almost forty five minutes and because of that it feels like that decision at the end is made quietly or in silence between the two characters and to me. It's like okay. I'm on board with. Why mangas making this decision. Sewri a little less so and because of that it falls a little flat when he shows up in stories like all right. I'm leaving like my wife and kids and my job like okay. She cries but she doesn't cry out. you know. She just gets upset that he's leaving. And i think she knows he's leaving forever but it's just quiet tears running down her face. She's not michelle williams thing it up and yelling and screaming at. He's ledger she's just like okay. I think it's almost like i knew this day would come and now it's here because the un another relationship with a white woman she knew of his struggles in like there's a part of where he's like i tried to. I want to stay clean. And so like clearly. The other like with their significant others. You know in their in their different therapies. Whatever they're like it's a very open this like discussions they're having enough of enough insight of like they're trying to have relationships with women and they can't do it can't bring himself do it. Sorry did apparently more than manga did presumably could have a very attractive milkman. Into the meat of amy and manga. Oh what the bug the praying mantis and the baby because it whole theme of his bb of lake them town of the parents sign them. A breed have children in the first time. The a maga meets the white woman. He will be elaine ship with She's with the baby and so it's very maternal. Motherly image of like change making a baby smile. And and so. It's like this very like again. Not subtle by very poet. Image of like this is life you can have. You can have a beautiful wife aching. Have a baby. Because that's what normal people have in quotation. Normal people will yeah and even him very early in the film manga telling story. I wanna have your children okay. That's an interesting way. Especially because they are kids themselves. At that point there may be eighteen. Probably graduating from high school. If feels like. But i've never loved anyone enough to tell them. I want to have their baby goes. We'd never really en- loveline guess it like it is also remember. They're teenagers so like this super intense melodramatic love story. It makes sense that with them being like eighteen year old. I was about to say my next door neighbor's kid. When i used to pick her up from school i would hear these kinds of things. That's why i'm just like that's for you. I mean it's it you know emotions are dialed up to ten. And that's kinda where they stay until they Myself included growing up. Like at some point you start learning how to dial it back and then you learn how to control the dial even better but yeah i mean i see it with my. I see it with my my sister's kid. You know i see that. Dial it's ten or zero. And like i saw it in this movie to you. See it like. I wanna have your kids you know. And then it's like back down. It's like okay cheeses. These emotions are just completely just being amplified the partway screwing manga. Scream as mom like that is always unnerves me every time it's so it's so primal and like and like the melodrama breaks into sleep. This is purely north confusion. But it's like it's like it's anger at like he can't be himself and like you know like i. I am a hetero man. Like like it really hits. Sounds like he wants to be himself in. No one in eastern. No one in his world is lying to it. And it's just heartbreaking and it's almost as heartbreaking though when he ends up getting the guy at the end because they don't necessarily seem like they're super happy. It just feels like this. Is i guess to the name of the film. This is destiny. This is the way that it's gotta play out and yeah it feels very like chris you call them a home wrecker and i'm just like kind of coming in here. And here's sewri with his wife. Maybe american and child and it's like yeah see you later. I'm going to go off with mangano and we're going to gonna lieven our jeep and drive off into the sunset. It kind of reminds me of like the end of the graduate where it's just like. Okay now we have each other now. What you know what what's going to be the next thing and it's like i would almost like to see epilogue to the film as far as what ends up with these two guys because they can't go home again they're basically non people to their own families. What are they gonna do. Are they exiled. Where do they go after this. Yeah no it's a another great comparison. My that i mean. There's a scene missing from the end of this movie. And honestly if i had. If i had been the one to make this movie the seed the way i would have had the credits roll. Is the credits rolling over a shot. Them driving away the their faces. Just so you can see that because again like you said you knew it in the graduate. Dustin hoffman and i forget the actress who plays the other leading that movie. The katharine ross. You see them in there like you said we have each other but at what cost to what end and like this is that same scenario here and it's it is emotionally. This movie is emotionally all over. The place intentionally and this ending is emotionally brutal intentionally again. I don't know what the directors intent was but regardless of his intent the the way the ending plays out is sudden emotionally brutal and then the movie just ends. And you're just like all right. What do they do now. Who knows fe. Don't even know around this time. There was a documentary called ruby sherry calendar directors names. It's very french names. After here said i. But once. French phillips brooks and they made sock theory about the gays transgender community and ob-gyn ivory coast and that was like the for lack of a better term. Like you know the the the san francisco of west africa. That was where if you were. Lgbt lgbtq those like the safest place to go and this hour. Long documentary is high pairs. His but i don't know enough if there was like kind of the shitty behind the scenes surf apparently burning has attached to it. But it's a very nice look like this is like where gay people in west africa are ancestry as like there are those people in the documentary is on our. It's on video and dvd out there but it's a really good movie. I highly recommend it. Like good comp- it'd be good double feature with paris's burning of lake ivory coast late ninety s and then eighties New york also film from two thousand called forbidden fruit zimbabwean film about lesbian relationships. And i would be curious to see how that film treats that films homosexual relationship. Obviously it's different gender but same continent same similar similar cultural expectations. I would be curious. How the director of that film handles the homosexual relationship in that felt because i'm abuse be curious to see another take not this one. There is more than you think. There's one couple years ago called rafiki from kenya. That gone law trouble because the government Did not want to promote it and have it be shown because it promoted crowley and just for reference. Kenya is conservative. Who point that if the please find like a dildo in your house you can be arrested and go to jail for. I don't know how long but like it's a good soul like that's like what kenya is Like so and there's that and there's this one from algeria called the road to love It's about a gay relationship. It's not as good it's messier than To con it's are checking out just to see like a north african perspective on lake homosexuality and There's a frontal male nudity in it which tommy off guard in it because i think toward like north african film. I do not think al al. Cps but you get to see one in it there's some scattered other ones but like it's it's still kind of taboo enough topic that Liquor happened to come are like it will end your courier if you do it alone now. It's getting better. i don't know for doug. Director for fiji issues may another movie. But i hope she may. I hope she is able to make another room and movie is definitely worth watching as a different perspective. Had i think i better point of view on homosexuality angle. Land kamara does so rafiki. That's that's the character from the lion. King correct it is the name mike. Yeah i believe the it's one. I wanna afro bubblegum movies which is abyss movement of lake african films that aren't depressing in series and trying to tr- they can be fun which i appreciate same time. He also needed the serious ones as well that the director of her fakey When you re Who i believe. She is a lesbian. But don't quote me on that fires somewhere of when it was. I mean if i can't remember but a for viet rafiki is e is on amazon. Last i checked so it can be sane and everyone should definitely check that out. it looks. She's filming a couple of new film. So obviously pandemic notwithstanding You know 'cause rafiki was to anti eighteen. Who knows when she started these other projects that she's working out but it does look like she is working on other stuff. So hopefully ricky did not get her into trouble. That camera got himself into related to more obt q. African cinema this one thousand nine hundred seventy seven is the same year. Another african film called destiny. Came out by yusef Trahin he's the guy to cairo station. He's kind of egypt's most famous director. I believe enough still has almost all his movies. One of the last movies also called destiny. Come out this year and he trouble with egypt in government over the years by having gay characters and his movies but he still somehow shall like sneak around and have a film crew egypt. And i highly recommend us watching his stuff like he. He was When a greats. And he's like in the forties to egypt kind of had a starting while they even had an egyptian version of rocky horror. Correct just with no gay sex or anything. Is that a real thing. Yeah it is a real thing. What is it is it weird. I mean is it. Just range Yeah it's pretty pretty bizarre. Because you know when i when i think of rocky horror picture all i can think of is gay sex so if it has no gay sex it is called fangs. Also known as an ya. Yeah so it is. It's a hetero version of rocky horror that defeats the purpose. But sure i guess. Canada rather than being Franken furhter it is a vampire thus the fangs of the title and yeah he pretty much there to seduce. The janet character doesn't necessarily seduce the bread character. Wow that is man. That's something else. Yup thank goodness for. I can't remember the guy's channel who does all of these You might think you know this film but it's been remade over here to neon harbor. He does some great stuff there. There's a bollywood movie on sauna flicks. I like it overall but it. It's kind of a weird. It's got to be better than eli. Ross i would think there's more music that's one thing that i found the death wish to be lacking as musical numbers of the movies were we. We're gonna talk about this month. The khan is probably going to have the lisa. Say about because on some level. I hetero so like parmi feels like should i talk about this movie. Yeah yeah your opinion is not valid because you are not homosexual as someone who is homosexual. You're fine okay. You're good you're there's been so much stuff written about and talked about movies that are gay themed by that sexual people think that's absolutely fine expensive to your point. I appreciate where you're coming from because there are people who are part of the community that i'm part of that will will tell you otherwise and that doesn't help anybody because your opinion is no less valid because you can't one hundred percent understand gay sex between two men. Yeah no. it's the and if anybody tells you otherwise. I don't know what to tell them so. I mean certain movies. Where like i feel like I i'm not qualify. Talk about it. I was on show talking about sarah jacobson movies. I told the guys on the show. Like make sure there's a woman on the episode caserne jacobson feminism and You know having a straight who's talking about her movies what makes sense straight dudes love talking about movies. Come on i know. I know but there's rate applies line straight white dude's love talking about movies even more. I mean that's free straight white nudes in a room together. You've got half of every podcast out available now so yeah i guess what we should've done was talking about the actress who plays google and just like talk about how great her racket and then we would be more like other podcasts. That's the heady discussion that we're missing here is instead of you. Saying she was examining her breasts. You were just your cat calling the entire time. That's what what what's missing. That's the best seat dude. My lord i found it really frustrating that when she and at dude redoing it on the table she was wearing her pants man. Come on your socks on sex bro. Yeah i'm so good with all that like it's just me and my ex pat spray. That's the only thing. I wear overall the movies really good. It's just that they're they're improved. That could easily be made. It's just the same time like you know kamar his career as a as of now still dad. I'd love to see maybe a follow up of of lakewood or characters are now maybe like a course correction course correction of the you know Weird elements of the movie. But who knows. I am with spencer. I'm glad i watched this mike. I appreciate again you kind of say before. And i'll say it again you push my cinematic boundaries. Pretty far this was not something i ever would have seen. Otherwise i guess might have given that. It's queer cinema but i don't search out queer cinema. I just watch it. I watch it as i watch anything else. It is something that i watch cinema. That just happens to be queer cinema. So i liked it as much as i could but i think dispensers point. I'm sure you'll echo. It is well. Mike the message of this movie. I can't quite put my finger on it and because of that. You know. Richard our friend. Richard hatem he kind of talks about like we talked about. I'm lucky lady episode. Actually over the culture cast in that movie the director doesn't seem to take a stance and in this one. It's kind of the same thing it's like. I can't tell what stance you're taking because i don't think you're taking one with something like this. It would be better if you did take a stance. Because i think the message would have more impact if it was clear from the beginning. What you're trying to tell us and where you're trying to go and what you're trying to challenge our belief systems on. I also wonder how much censorship did. He have to go through in terms of editing. Because there have been like some other. Roy moore like political african films. Like challah the been movie. That had re edited At eleven times or so before the senegalese government would allow them to some been to show it in theaters with a movie. Lake the con-. I really do wonder how much how much editing did he have to come are have to go through just to make sure like you'd actually be able to show it other than the kissing at the beginning and i think there's some kissing a little bit after that this is not real graphics stuff and then even when it comes to the aborted sex scene between moon manga i think. Nudity for females as much more normalized in africa if i'm to believe Looking at national geographic's for all those years but there's like the the like some foot play kind of stuff going on and some touching but it's not super roddick so yeah i am curious if he had to go through stuff because what we see is not super risque other than the idea of black men white woman black man black man the in and of themselves it's risque but what they show not necessarily that risque at least to me after the meek you when they're like a walking we walk in her to her place at night and there's this moment with a bus stop or something and her dress plans then with the background in his sherpa into the background instances really like beautiful like image of lake harass blends in which blend with like You know the ride back in like it's like a really cool set design thing that i count but wonder like how planned out. Was that 'cause like it. It's kind of amazing. I found three different versions of the film and only one of them looked descent like one had english. Subtitles burned into it. That just looked like ass and so at the beginning when they're wearing their schoolboy uniforms and they've got the white shirts good luck reading the subtitles because they were just blown out completely. I watched one. That had no subtitles and couldn't find subtitles for it. Any place and then. I finally watched one. That looked pretty darn good and actually was wide screen and look nice But yeah was not that easy to find a decent looking copy of this. But i didn't know until. I was looking around for trailers for the film. That like you said before it is on video now so you can buy it or rent it for not that much money. I think video keeps their rates. Pretty low so as will be. Jerry is also on video and the other language spoken in this pledge. French is Monica or I saw kabul different listed on dvd. I have is says a. 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Episode 530:  Sabata (1969)

The Projection Booth Podcast

1:56:41 hr | 3 months ago

Episode 530: Sabata (1969)

"An airwave media podcast. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast. You hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws. Like jesse james butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache we use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple. Podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history. All told with cinematic music sound design subscribed for free on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you're listening now show people could money to see this movie. When they go to a theater they walked. Cold sodas popcorn in no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. Who law Never misses pistol shoots too and look. That means you're dead people you drawn man and the gun one sup welcome to the projection booth. Mike white to me once again is ms heather drain. Also back in the booth is mr mark begley friend. It's bigly you're finished spaghetti. Western month continues with a look at the data films. It's something of a trilogy but not really some might say that there are seven films in the series but really they're just to in. We'll unpack all that stuff as we go along the original film. Hey friend at some data year finished or just sobotta was written and directed by gianfranco perelini released in nineteen sixty nine. The film stars leave and cleef as the titular gunfighter. Who's no stranger to gadgets. He moses into a place where the town's powerbrokers have set up a robbery of their own money in order to collect the insurance so begins to extort these pillars of society with the help of a mexican loud garrincha or currency depends on what your subtitles are saying. A native american acrobat named alley cat and a former friend-turned-rival frienemie. I suppose named banjo. We will be spoiling this film and some of the others as we go along so if you haven't seen sabado turn off the show and comeback. If you have we will still be here other. Have you seen this about films. Before that was kinda filed the category films. I read about for years and heard about amway's kinda checkout especially because getty western united bigger titles across a love abroad broadway. Socio this year was my time. Thanks you investigate the subotic films in the first one iras please i. I know we'll go further into it. I thought it was so much fun. Leave in cleef is in fact the man and this is one of my new favorite vanclief roles like he owns it like a estimate leather suit. An marchal yourself sobotta friendly. This was my first time watching any of these. You may have shown on a movie night. I did okay. i didn't see all of it. I believe when i watched was at the first one was there. Were a few familiar scenes. And a lotta times. I have to kind of cut in and out on those nights. And i miss certain things and i couldn't quite tell if it was this or a different test spaghetti western and now you've seen seven movies. They all kinda run together. Don't buy that is one of the problems with watching all of these. Yes and then me like a genius. I went and i bought the sardana of box set. Not the sabado box that because sir tana seem brighter gian-franco perelini sobotta was kind of his response to sir tunnel like he couldn't make another tana film so he said oh. I'm going to do my own thing and make some data and this was not my first time with the first about a film but definitely my first time all the rest of these films including the amazing third film. Which i'm very excited to talk to you all about leaving cliff all my god for a few dollars. More is my favorite of the lien. A dollars trilogy. At my favorite leona overall probably once upon a time in the west but leaving cleef is the reason. Why love for a few dollars more so much. And this colonel mortimer character that he plays in that movie so similar to sobotta especially the whole idea of the gun with the long candles so you can take care stuff from long distance and he uses that pretty quickly in this movie so i was very happy about that. Seem can outfit and everything to and just leaving cleef exudes cool like nobody's that's so amazing in this. And he has such a great sense of humor with his swagger like he's always gonna walk around with this almost late. That could've smirk but he's just kind of you know people try to constantly betray him in up here in. He knows he's got it like he knows he's cool is just that that presence of just like he is the man he knows. He's the man he's gonna show you white sand and also i mean at times. He's almost like super naturally talented just Especially the third at one point. He's just pop it up like like a monster like you say the guys rented from it. Also there's sa- bada and but he pulls it off like that's kinda the thing is that there's so many things in these films like if you're somebody if your viewers that likes who live in a land of logic everything makes sense. You do not need to watch the team. That's kind of like part of it. There's a weird magic especially with the this one in the third one is in both of those movies and comes back for dead in each one of them. I not that familiar with a lot of his work even in the spaghetti western genre but of what i have seen. I've seen him be as funny for lack of a better word. It was interesting to note that it wasn't just serious squinty eyes. I'm gonna kill everybody through all. The films are well through his two films that he's in and i really enjoyed that either liked that he was a little more mischievous i guess and i was glad that he was back in the third. I don't have anything against yul brenner. And i actually like the second one pretty well but i was happy in watching return of sobotta to have him back once you see him as sevada. It's obviously it's like when you see a like a rock band you'll have have any lead singer in it just doesn't work you know you're like that's not morrison that's aspirated from the cold. If it's like yeah but you'll Berries great. he's not. Jim morrison like this this to me. It's like in my mind. Subotic is a hundred twenty percents We'll go warranted a second one here. You're obviously he does have this colorful band of characters but even spotted just himself even if he was alone he reminds me a lot of will. Of course he reminds me a lot of like The man with no name as far as that idea or yo- jimbo the inspiration that idea of that. He knows everything that's going on and doesn't really need to figure anything out. He's kind of like colombo when this happens and he goes out and he kills all of the robbers that took this money from the bank and brings everything back and just like. Hey here's all the money. Isn't this great. It's like immediately sniffs out something's not right. And he pretty much can put his finger right on the pulse. And i just love that and so much of this is it's it is very jimbo slash fistful of dollars. Ask for me as far as him going. Oh yeah well. I'm looking for a reward. I think he starts at five thousand dollars and then pretty much he starts extorting all of these pillars of the community until he gets up to like sixty thousand dollars and i think the originals total that was stolen was a hundred thousand dollars so he just keeps race net asking price. Like if you wanna keep my mouth shut. Let's talk about a little bit more money. How about ten thousand about twenty thousand and then yeah now. He's got these other guys where he's going to split that money with them. Who is i love him. So much and alley cat who never says a word. He bounces around like a tennis ball and banjo this williamsburg character who constantly hanging around kennedy car. Monica in once upon a time in the west hanging around playing that banjo and you know the system between the two of them. But i don't think we ever really get the whole story. But i just love that. They're fucking with each other. The entire movie think we cannot heap. Praise on agnosio spothero as carranza. Who's kind of like the guardian angel of all three films like he's in these films share so many of the same actors in almost everybody's playing a different role excessively cleaved. But he's like he's got this great like big almost like i don't know falstaff energy. It's so much fun. And just so gregarious and his laugh. He's got this like like lab. It's easy to ask. You know you were mentioning mike. The hell sabado seems to be three or four steps ahead of everybody and i had read. I think in one of the pieces that you sent that. The director was fascinated by chess. That really great scene in the film or that plays out visually between sobotta and the main battery in this Stingl i'm going to try and keep names. I think that's the battery in this. One trying to keep names straight here. Who who reminded me. The actor reminded me of william finley the whole time. I was watching the movie all sectors. Something about that guys is. It reminds me of of diplomas. Little friend shows up in all his movies. But i just loved that scene at his dinner table when they're moving each of them is moving the wine and the you know he's got that came that shoots something out of it and cepeda obviously knows that he's moving the bottle here and the plate there and it just goes to that whole thing of he. He knows what's going on three four steps ahead which you have to in a game at chess is the other two batty. So there's the judge the banker in the rancher in the rancher stangl in the judge in the banker. I mean you can almost just forget about those guys. They just kind of represent the money and the power of the city but stingl is really the power behind the throne and he is a great match force about because like sobotta. He loves gadgets and he mentioned his keen that shoots out. I guess like spikes or knives or something. He also has this room in his ranch house. Where the ranch house which is just this. Incredible palace is actually like via dei mussalini. Right where mussalini spent to summer. And he's got this this big room these two like metal cutouts of men and he has these very elaborate duels that take place behind each of them and there's a secret hole in the heart of the one that he stands behind can use either a gun or that cain to shoot at his opponent that way but again subodh knows exactly. What's up with all this stuff. And i love that dinner seeing when he is moving those big flasks to block that cain in yeah very much like a long distance chess match with objects on the table is fantastic. Jingle has this kind of like. He's almost like spider playing with his praet. Yes kind of like coolness about him and like even as like this line about life is only worth living. Would you can face death with no fear. I also you know life until you. Fuck death in the gallbladder. That's actually my own personal favorite. Line your own philosophy team. Doodo care and poborsky all the way of all of the three main films. I think single is bad. I mean for the reasons both of you eventually. I think he's the best because he really is such a great foil for sobotta. None of the other ones measure up as far as sheer scuzzy. Nece i like his line about. I don't know if it's a marxist line were. I had watched rope the other day. And they say it's kind of similar thing like this kind of stuff is okay for people of a superior intellect and everyone else is at my bidding and that some him perfectly or Article with talking about a book that he's reading and it's basically the philosophy of that book is what he's quoting as far as like he's that upper echelon. He's a niche in superman. That's how he views himself any views. Everyone else below him. And he's basically trying to find maybe his equal and then ribbon review where they said that he's a homosexual and i wasn't really getting that he was coated homosexual and i know homosexuality is one of the things that comes up in some of spaghetti westerns one of my favorite being A one of the django movies for you've got this whole gang of homosexuals. But i think really seek stengel as gay at enough. You guys picked up on that one or not. If i just completely missed it. I didn't pick up on it but i usually. I'm not super well-versed in spaghetti westerns overall but a lot of times. That bad guy. The who looks like he came from the big city is portrayed effeminate leahy by their clothes maybe by their hair kind of looks like he might have eyeliner on. But when you mentioned that. I think i had read something that there was supposed to be this question about subotica and banjo and i totally missed out. On the first time. I watched it in the only thing that implied that in the movie that i caught the second time was i believe it. Subodh is says we used to play together that was like the only indication of how they knew each other. You know they've obviously got history like you mentioned. And there's there's somebody from his past and all the films that serves as a foil and that line. I was like oh i guess that's what they were talking about. He says it kind of oddly and it's not explained in any depth whatsoever so that's really the only homosexual coating caught if that's even what they were going for i'm not really buying. The thing is like with stangl is like he's kind of a dandy comparatively to the scruffy beer townspeople which i think make a dandy could be a great way to kind of show them villainous. He's not a man of the people or anything. But yes i knew like coded gay. I don't see it at all if anything especially with banjo i think he's a total just like poon hound seeking banja. How great is banjo can love band in that. That seeing the perelini just over derived because of this just fucking fantastic when he's going from banjos face to the banjo back through the phase back to the banjo in. It's all just like these like it's not even like a swish pain. This just like this swish tilt. I guess it is of the banjo back to the face back to the bedroom. Bikes to the face. And then when it just keeps getting faster and faster and faster and finally the sobotta suits the banjo and he's just like you're out of tempo. This may be my own sort of. Mike is very well informed with my own personal bias. Fan girl charles rocket to remind you chills. Get along better news apps who i was thinking of. Yes thank you okay. At least it wasn't just. Because i i like i like the cut of his. Jim and i'm like midway like holy shit. I know why because he reminds me shells rocket. That is so funny. Also see his facial features. If you put a wig on whoever it is i'm thinking of. That's the guy and i couldn't remember his name. That is exactly it you know. It's funny. I watched sir tanna the first one today mike. You mentioned that earlier. And i do believe it's the same director going as frank kramer as the sobotta films william burgers in that. He's got a little bit media roles so you might want to check that one out. It's pretty fun tilley noted. He's thyroid even his pants like he's got these lake pants with this great french. That has little bowels. So he's always kinda change in wherever he goes are usually. It's the spurs jingle jangle. But he's all about that. I mean it's it's literally bell-bottoms and you'll burners got some fancy dead's in the second one which will get to eventually. Let's talk about bell-bottoms the fact that we have one of the greatest reveals ever with his musical instrument of stories and especially 'cause leading to a lot of people are very like they'll take him seriously the kind of thinking of even even like his lover is just like sort of just like doesn't take look at instrument. Yeah kind of attitude midway gun. That is so awesome that only in ineffective they built it up. 'cause you know early on you keep expecting is it gonna be a gun because thirty seats audit with his like in saito sort of gun that can shoot from different ends in all this but the but he doesn't use it and so they they save it just Till the midway point then when he does reveal it. It's like oh yes the the greatest reveal and you're talking about the history between those two and i kept thinking that it was probably something to do with the war because i think garagic keeps saying that he was a war hero and the seems like it's set just a little bit past the civil war and is one of those like who was a i can really see single being a war profiteer and i can see like was sabado. Which side was he was. He was doing right by the war was he. Soldier was the colonel colonel mortimer. Like what is this story. And i think there was something there with banjo in him. Maybe even being an opposite sides. Betsy impression i got and i don't know if that was just from reading one of the articles that you sent or maybe even just the wikipedia page but it's not explicit in the film but that was my understanding. That's what i went into the film with and also having read a little bit prior to watching the films that i had that hidden shotgun or hidden rifle in the banjo sorta ruined for me. Because i knew that that on. I kept going well. When is he going to start shooting people so it was still a nice reveal when it happened but at i had kind of been spoiled for me but in all of the films there is some relation to the subotic character to the civil war As far as time and place for the films that's what it feels like. Yeah especially in these first three yup the first three of the unofficial ones Those are all over the place. So the first time i watch this it was one of those where i i just didn't really catch everything that was going on. And so especially the alley cat character was just like who the fuck is this guy because it's not just alley cat. That is there. But i love his reveal. When he's up on the roof fiddler on the roof and he jumps off in bounces like obviously hidden trampolines right but he just bounces and bounces again and then lands and he's just out there he is and there's also acrobats when it comes to the actual robbery itself and these guys just like oh. This guy stands on a piece of wood and this other guy jumps on it and then this guy flies up there and was just like wow. This is amazing acrobatics. That are going on but that is nothing compared to the third film which is a literal fucking circus. That was interesting. I missed that the kind of miss that the first time a watching the first film and they had this the coach with virginia brothers flag on it and they kept mentioning saint louis and surpassing seem to know who they were and what figured you know again figured it out that oh wire these acrobats here. i get it. They bounced up to the window. Got in that way robbed the bank and it seems like saint. Louis comes up quite a bit in a number of these films. I'm not sure what the reason for. That is what the history with saint louis is and the old west right. I don't know if it's just like the gateway to the west kind of thing you know makes perfect sense to me but yet to your point from earlier i mean stangl. Being a dandy feels very much like he was somebody from out east. Who's now out there. Just saying like at least rouf's that i can fleece this is going to be fantastic and the other thing. That's really fun about the films. Are all the gadgets. Like you've mentioned and how this again from reading the material is i believe the directors nods to double. Oh seven and i think he directed some spy foams so that for me was the most interesting aspect to these films other than lee van cleave being able to let go and not be super serious and squinty the whole time but i loved anticipating what gadget was gonna come up next as even got like an old record player and he's playing a voice. He's got this coach going towards these guys with dynamite on. I think that's in the first one right. Yeah that's the kind of trojan horse at the at the end of the film there where they think he's on the state on the coach and he's cinta dan full of dynamite with the little phonograph. i guess it's just a phonograph. Little wax cylinders. They used to use those pop up a couple of times throughout the series in the films as well the music in this in. We'll talk about music so often during spaghetti western month because so many of these scores are just classic by the main thing that comes up in here is fantastic than even those that moment and i noticed that the phantom of the theme. That's but that's what. I wrote my notes but at one point like that theme from the phantom of the opera plays and suddenly we have like a horror feet inside of here so good through a little gothic horror. Touch for us. Yeah that was great. I didn't mention that crazy. It sounds like a plank being hit or something. It's this weird like young boys that plays a couple times and i'm just like what the hell is supposed to represent. It sounds like the noise. That i can't even think of a movie that does this may be making this up entirely. It sounds like the noise to represent a boehner. Like in a in a certain or stop and i was like what in the hell is that more young which now any time. I hear that noise. I'm going to refer to it mentally as the boehner staying. There could have some. Oddly slightly gothic flourishes. Sorry i could see that especially in the beginning. 'cause the beginning of when they're doing the robbery have all this slakes kind of stormy night gothic music. And which is almost kind of off putting your bear to the rest of the movie thinking about it. There's no boehner staying in the in the beginning. What does that fits with the idea that we're talking about before too with the death and resurrection of sobotta because one point it seems like banjo. Who is now being paid by stangl on his two cronies to kill that kills sobotta and the take him out of town and then we find out of course nope about. It's not dead. And then he comes back for revenge than enact this whole plan. I mean it's very much like this is all part of the plan. Okay you're gonna kill me quote unquote. And then i'll come back and i'll do this. And that subodh is like a little bit of a ghost for bed so i guess that fits with the gothic idea to the style of that third movie. The opening not maybe gothic but definitely giancarlo with the colors and all that so. It's kind of fun when they hit on those different genres in these because it can be for me at least it can get a little bit old with some of the lesser spaghetti westerns. Where it's just the same thing over and over again. People getting shot and flinging themselves off of a hill or their horse and can get repetitive. So having those interesting odd touches really livens up the viewing for me. You mentioned blow seven. There's a line devils seven stuff especially the gadgets. Heather you mentioned the gun that can shoot out of the handle rather than just always thought of the barrel which is interesting. Trinity was a western comedy. But this is a different type of western comedy. Western spy comedy. Put inside of that and it it. It's not like anything that i personally had ever seen before. This weird amalgamation and i think in the wrong cans. It could have been a disaster but for me. This movie really works. Oh absolutely well in the in a lot of it too is like the the cast like everybody pulls off their each roles so well and especially the dynamic between lee being cleaved and agnosio as carinthia. And also i have to mention i loved aldo conti so much as indio which i guess is maybe not a politically actor for that character because but you know come on if you want and political correctness. Don't watch euro kalt probably from this decade and whether it's western or at but he's so greatness such a great physicality in this film he's completely mute but has a very expressive phase and We'll kinda researching this episode. And i was telling. Michael bit about this earlier. I found out. Albakov died in his. He was murdered and apparently he had under his dealings with the underworld at italy and had a gambling debts. It's well this is speculation. 'cause nobody ever found his killers but basically sort of the going thing. Belief is that he had a gambling debt that he had not paid off and he was. Yeah he was found shot in the head park. The only thing i read about him was that he was in the olympics. Maybe i was reading about a different guy that confused me too. Because i saw that too. I was because he's so physically. Agile unless you could easily believe it. but i think the other olympian other content was born in the sixties days. Time did not match. I think it had him in like the early eighties. Maybe in la the one thousand nine hundred and that would not make sense. So you're probably right. They got they connected. The two eroneous asli. It's wikipedia so obviously mileage gotta vary. You brought up india. And i'm just like the house india. I'm looking i'm like oh aldo conti oak. He's alley cats probably indio in like the italian version. But he's alley cat in the english dub version. I mean we just had this a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about the great silence where 'cause kosice to grow in the dub but he's or in the italian and he's loco in the english subtitles so it's just like okay. Which is it. why does this match in. It's funny that you know here. We are about us about a spa. I don't think they received name in the movie. And there's even a part where right at the end where garrincha's like. Hey what's your name and he's like oh did i mention it. And he says it and he just goes off into the sunset see later stranger. That kind of makes sense with this whole series though of who is sobotta. I mean he's different in every film played by a different actor in the second one and then once you get into the unofficial the four and i believe there's even more than the four that we watched i read at some point that there are like up to twelve and in one of them. I believe the last one that the last one released. There's no character names in that one at all. And i'm like what so. Then that makes me think about all this stuff like win studios these days. Take a script and they go. What are we gonna do with this. Well let's make this next die. Hard movie wasn't written as a diehard movie. Or i know this has happened with the saw franchise as well. I believe the second film was something. These two other guys that were completely on associated with the first film wrote and they said well. This could be a soft film. Just add a couple more crazy traps and there you go and it brings up that sorta cynical part of me which i really tried to avoid when watching these but you have to look at it like why did they make the second film Movie and they changed it at some point because characters. do i believe. Say subotic in that film. When it's the yul brenner character Just by watching the mouth movement it really looks like they're saying sevada and not india black or whatever his name was supposed to be it brings up this weird influence of You know these forests sequels and existing properties and trying to cash in and then also becomes almost like a legend where all these stories people pass around the campfire eventually end up being ascribed to one person. So that's how. I ended up looking at them like okay. Zapata is just. He's a legend in in this. During this time and these three different people did these wildly different things and at some point somebody just said oh. Yeah that was that was that was sobotta and not even getting into two again. The the foreign official ones and how they relate or don't relate to zapata at all. I think that that's such a cool. Take on this series of films and kinda just miss certain films kind of set when you have sort of a similar mythos in general kind of looking at almost like an urban legend or campfire tale. That's that's super cool. You can't meet him face to face and you can't turn your back on. What can you say about except audience suboxone. You'll burn at sobotta for you. Start off lever action thirty contain seven room fire remington and once ago brunner as they say you can judge a man by the company. He keeps like gypsy when he starts dancing. September everyday in killer right down to his tokes gringo when he went by the book. So didn't you the kernel. A marksman never missed a chance to practice. What can you say about sabado except audio audio butter. it's no wonder he always wears black directed and co written by perelini again and it's called addio sobotta. At least that's how we know it. But the original title was india black psyche deco set in grand field the and dot dot dot which translates and. It's funny because we were making a joke about this before we started recording india. Black you know. I tell you you are a great son of that that that is the joke. Is that every time in. It's very very Toco right from the good the bad and the ugly in when he says your son of a bitch but then they have the hell. I come over it so it doesn't actually say bitch. It's so funny. These movies can be as violent as anybody's business but they always watch it with the language with murders galore. But you can. I call someone and asshole or Or anything like this. That really threw me off. And i just got to say i love the original titles of all of these films and i really wish they were presented that way. I mean we could go. I made a whole list of spaghetti western titles and they pretty much. And i think you mentioned this on one of your episodes already mike that it kinda rival the audacity inventiveness of jolly titles and they really like to use ellipses a lot and it's just sort of fun to read those read the different transcriptions and translations of them like i have one. That's different from what you said. India black. You know what i'm going to tell you dot dot dot you're a big son of a dot dot dot and that's awesome just swap out deal black for cepeda and keep that amazing title instead of just audio sobotta obvious about it. You think it's the last one and so when return us about. I'm like okay at the second one wanted the third one. It's kind of like rise of the planet of the apes being before dawn of the planet of the apes and that doesn't make any sense. I those dawn. Then there's rise than those war but no it's rise on war okay flare. Whoever came up with that. Take your damn heads off of me. You dirty son of a dot dot dot that life is cheap toilet. paper is expensive. I love make my favorites. Like god forgives. I don't have a good funeral. Friend site tana will pay and they smell the strange exciting dangerous sent dollars. You could swap out dollars for something kind of sexy or gross on that one and you have a jolly title completely. I mean these are amazing. There are so many good ones where we're telling. My room is a lot my love of locked door. I can't even remember what the vice is a locked room. And only i have the key something to that effect made me have to go look up. The entire. history of austria was doing in mexico. It was one of those like okay. I think i remember that from history class that austria owned the mexican territories for a while. But i had completely forgotten about it. And so the whole idea of what is emperor mex- million in all this. I mean this movie is steeped in this idea of austria and mexico. And so you've got these like mexican bandidos that are going through here. That's kind of a freedom fighters. I mean there's a great scene where we've got. The the main villain whose austrian count is a colonel skinner demo stem yes Close to the stendhal Just like what the. I guess it might depend on which version you watched I believe i watched these all on screen picks the first time in a may have had to watch audio on what you sent over and i don't know if it was different on both but yeah it depends on who's typing them out. I guess going into this one. You know i was on such a high from the first one because as sues so i'd love all the characters within the first five minutes of this one you have a kenny lay. Anybody that's in a game. Remove feats knows exactly what i'm talking when you see a precocious child pop up in your like now please. I don't. I don't want a child in this universe i don't need some annoying and especially when the monk is trying to tell this boy you know. We don't need to celebrate. Violence and the monasteries been attacked and the and the kid says little juanita says the lord is sobotta it. He didn't get slapped. Because i don't i mean. I wasn't raised catholic. But i've heard i've heard legends family's catholic about if you get a little too mouthy with certain un's or priests you. You tend to get hit. A lot at southern. Baptists are much different for the record but the lord is about it which honestly i should've been titled to like what a great title with abby like step oughta as a deity. Yeah i'll deal is sabina. I'd like it sounds good skim all i thought he looked familiar and of course he is the scene guy who was the european pistolero in the begun down. It's funny 'cause the net one. He's going against leaving cliff in this one. he's going against yul brenner. And i gotta say you brenner. I like yul brenner but he is being much more of that character from the magnificent seven that kind of loner outsider type of guy where you can't really tell what's going on behind the facade versus leave in cleef who seems to be just having a really good time it doesn't feel like yul brunner's having a great time playing list in for me. It was kind of a letdown in the second one absolutely same and it breaks my heart to say that because i too i love brenner. Classic actor and he has such a great presidents. i thought he was bland on his. And i never thought in my life ever say that were bland yul brenner but here i am and that he's talks no he's fine you know but it's just an he does have that great black fringe way tight like he's he's always shown a lot of chest. Hair me not nastier but the thing is locate for like the wild west is just like you could tell he's lists than annual brenner ano- allah good ladies here. Are my brenner packs. You're welcome and i respect that but yeah it's just this one. I just felt like this film has some good stuff about it. Which will go into that really. Love but vanclief is sobotta. It's just there's no. There's no other person that is gonna satisfy this role like van cleave burners fine. I mean honestly after after spot watching some of the knockoffs i was. I was like i. Oh i oh you also interesting as a character in this. But he's definitely wearing flashier clothes in this weird added lines between the first one in the second one so obviously sabado and he's got this kind of interesting gun this time. It's like rather than being a cylinder for his gun. It's like this flat line. That goes across in the last one. There's osa cigar in it so like when he's done killing people he can pull the cigar out nineties. Got that form. Those this dean catered named ballantyne who i thought would think he was valentine and he's kind of the banjo person but not really. He doesn't play joe but he's just kind of like pain in the ass from by this past who just keeps coming in. He's just like yeah. I'm gonna fuck over. Whatever kind of deals you get going here sabado. Good luck with that and then you get a ignacia spa again as a scudo this in these kind of playing the same role but a little bit different but really for me. It's like him and septembre. Who's this guy who is around like ball-bearings drop one into his boot and he's got like a little cup in the tova boot and then he couldn't buy whip that thing. It's like this hacky sack from hell kind of thing where you can just murder people with these. There's another guy. I'm trying to remember what his name is if he's He's tunnel but he gets up and hill dance before someone is murdered. He'll do like a flamenco. And these there like clapping his hands tapping his feet and all this kind of stuff is just like does something. Bad's going to happen at the end of the stance lookout but man september even though it doesn't say anything he's like the character for me. It's like all right cool. He very much like alley cat or indio that he doesn't speak but i'm just like this guy's got charisma galore and give me the september a story. I love this guy. He was definitely one of my favorites in that. Second film. sal borghese. I believe the name after that played him. He just has mrs like silent film kinda quality. His face like he has so much expression is and you just tell. There's a lot of depth going on I totally would have been down for a follow up. That's focused on his origins and everything is so great and Also heke sec of death should be another spaghetti western title. What was it hacky sack from. Hell dean reed am. I am i original narrates. He reminded me of eric. Bischoff it a wrestling reference. Everybody gets meets. Bobby sherman and it turns out he was like. I don't know why there isn't a documentary on this guy. He is an american musician. Actually was kind of a pop star and like south america and then became basically rule champion of like communist countries of socialist. You know and became a very controversial figure over here or even though he never renounced zero citizenship. He wasn't really. i think. Technically an ex pat in the eighties. interview where compared reagan to stall it. And he got in trouble for that which i mean. He wasn't wrong pretty listening to hates it when we get political. You're well come. But also won't he was like a jailed. I think italy in the early seventies and was bailed out by the poet. pablo naroda. Where is this guy's documentary mean. Holy cats after further investigation. It seems that they are few documentaries on dean read including one called american rebel and another call. The red elvis disappointing though is the flamenco weaker of death is basically he distracts people with dancing. Then like ignasi owes character shoots them. I was hoping that his like his little dance. Shoes with shootout bullets. Or whip his spurs across. Somebody's neck at the end. Dean reed is in another Perelini film that is now on the top of my lists called soto achie- toka and it's got agnosio and ed it's got aldo content. It's got cell brigada. September guy and of course. I can't find it so i'm going to try and track that down some way. A lot of these other ones are on prime or or the screen. Picks has a lot of spaghetti westerns. But of course this one they don't so they're all matched up again in another perelini or frank kramer film which is odd to because those those credits come up. And there's italian names all over the credits produced by this guy at music by this guy and then when they get to the director they always go with the pseudonym. And i'm like i don't frank kramer out out bland that it's with ballantyne he does. He is a painter. But this seems kind of odd especially knowing that dean reads back rally keypad legit musical experience and that there's where he keeps having to redo like the villains portrait because he's like. I don't look happy to you ever look happy. Face is so good in love the monocle. I mean it's such a great touch and yeah he does look like he is. Just the world's angriest man at all times. Andy shoots the peasants that they've jailed or whatever i thought. What is what's going on here and then i'd caught on and i was like. Oh that's really brutal. The only thing. I really know about the austrian rule of mexico is that we got doses out of that so. I don't always drink beer. But when i do a great political thing that's going through this whole movie but subas the weak link in the film which is weird like i i would rather have a scudo be the guy who's just like okay. Yeah i'm gonna rally the peasants and me in september in the dancer guy. We're going to be the ones that take care business. Maybe the read gets in there as well. Cool but sobotta. You don't really need to be part of this fight spot. it's okay. I mean he does in the movie. He is part of the fighting. He'll helps out and everything was great. But yeah in in what kills me is like you said fuel brenner applicable of yul brenner. But he's kind of like a what blanket in this film especially going from being cleef who so expressive in the first one to brenner. He seems bored. I mean it's just. I mean he looks great. It's yul brenner. He always looks great other than like the cigarette gag which is a great guy admittedly like it just doesn't seem i don't know it's just not as much fun. I mean thank god for like the side characters because they that is worthy action is and you really do love them you root for them and it is really cool it. You're you're totally right on the political revolutionaries aren't heroes and the bad guys are basically this kind of colonialism. Sorta thing but it's just a great again. It breaks my heart. Might wanna dog on. You'll printer you're talking about the music with dean reed and there is a scene where he plays the piano on the they sort of have a little tete-a-tete with the piano and then it comes up again. Sorta like the line. We used to play together in the first one on banjo. And they talk about doing a duet. So i started going on or are is this. The coating again is the homosexual coating again with their past and gone for a stretch there. But i don't think they ever sit down and actually played the duet together. Or maybe i. i'm miss remembering but there is a little bit of musical Stylings in there with him. You're right. I told why forgot that because now that you said that i remember that because at first you like the by playing the piano and that guy throws a nine faddem because it's this blond guys being really rude to agnosio at his crew calling them pigs and saying they smell bad and the zavatta like gets autumn do throws a knife sparky's plan and i'm just like leave cleveland That's again. It was like a little kid which i will say this at least. Juanito doesn't pop up a whole lot in this movie. 'cause i was i was like if this kid's going to be a main character. This is gonna be rough. Thankfully he didn't he just pop up later on it like a saloon. Like what kind of modest kind of out of nowhere. He's just there again. You sound like a monastery in a cowboy movies. Suddenly i'm thinking they're gonna get all raped like l. Topa all united smogs please. It's like this isn't gonna end. Well the austrians shooting shooting down the peasants. I think that's literally had said. What is this alto power. Because it's just because most of the violence in these movies is. I mean a lot of it but it's very you know. It's not lake gruesome. It's not really what i would call. It's definitely not like peckinpah or anything like that. You know it's more especially by the third one. There's not a whole lot of death until more later on. And these aren't gruesome movies but that little seen in in the second one. I mean there's still not super bloody by any means but just the visual in the idea of it. It's so nasty. Especially when they're like. Oh let more than one of them go at a time to give the colonel something to you know to to really few at because shooting off one at a time super easy so let's let a group of them go. It's pretty hard core. The violence is almost her to of violence where there are some squibb's and a little bit of a pin needle of blood in it but you don't get the bucket of blood and big springs squibb's or anything like that. And i believe in one of the cheaper knockoff films. They don't even bother was squibb's people just get shot and fall down on the ground but the second one is one that really gets into that to having the stunt guys do flips and flops off of their horses and and like i mentioned earlier where it comes becomes very repetitive. In the shooting deaths. That's for me. What made this one drag a little bit those one of those sabado knockoffs that they are so cheap that every time they so somebody on horseback ron carriage they just show like they show them from the waist up and you can tell. Somebody's just shaking. Whatever set that. They're on because the clouds never move behind them. They're just going back and forth like in a very steady rhythm to and the guy who's quote unquote driving the carriage just constantly shake the rains. I'm just like what are you doing to those horses dude. It's very much like hey look at me. I'm driving and you just like are constantly moving the wheel back for it. Yes i did notice that. Yeah i it's probably the same one has one of them was very very obviously cheaply made so butters back. East judge jury executioner potus back. He's got his mind on a billion dollars in gold and he's got his sights on an irishman named mcclintock subotica's back. He's not alone phrase like bronco janda angel clyde mcclintock has readiness to after batas back would like to see the dead legends. Don't die especially when they're fast. The man with a gun sight is is back. And he's throwing his weight around a quarter of an ounce at a time. Batas back. so let's talk the third one word. We've got vanclief coming back. And it's the return of sobotta. Haiku zal ultra volta. So look out another time another gian-franco perelini also by renato eat so Who has been a co writer on a lot of these memory. Serves and the circus. Element the flipping the the india character slash allocate character in the way that he jumps around. Or you got those two tumblers that are helping robbing rob the bank in the first movie take that and times it. By what one hundred two hundred three hundred. Maybe because this movie literally starts in a circus even though you think it's very very 007 it's like the cold open from 007 film and then it suddenly changes into. Oh this wasn't real at all. This is a circus act. And it's like wow okay. And that's the tone of the movie. Through the whole thing is very much a circus western. I guess does remind me of hetero ski a little bit more in terms of like signed a which has so much of a circus theme. Here we have the circus in sobotta and savannah's just like all about it like oh cool. Yeah i joined the circus. Fuck you here i am. I'm sobotta and got even better. Gets this time kit. We had this be the the unofficial title is. Yeah i joined the circus. Fuck you. i'm sobotta. And that's like the whole title that review this this open all my god. I felt like any sort of quibbles i had with. Audios melted away within the first few minutes of this one. The yao at i believe. Are you talking about the circus. And the santa song gray and mark. You'd mentioned kind of almost that gallo sil- lighting and all my the reds and the greens Everything looks great. It's tense like yeah and then fucking clowns. Come out what is happening here. Why am i hearing the marionnettes kinda thing going on here area. The whatever that famous circus song is like here you go wherein the circus. And there's all the trappings is entry of the gladiators by julius few chick that opening is great. Probably one of my favorite parts of the whole series official and unofficial combined and a lot of it had to do with those touches. The the coloring was at. I wish that that would come up more. Because it can get so bland with the desert landscapes in the dusty landscapes in the towns that are pretty muted in color and kind of run down. And you know. I mean it's supposed to be the old west so i get that but the old west wasn't always yield west. At some point it was the new west and buildings painted newly painted in bright colors. Maybe and it was a nice splash of color. Figuratively and literally to brighten it. Up for me you're totally nailing. Why i can be so hot and cold with westerns and general. Because you know a lot of times you know in my experience. People will get a little bit not ambitious with the visuals as far as coloring but just like camera angles the movement and i mean even in audios. There's some great to sort of camera pans movements. There is a great sort of like tilting upshot in this one Sobotta like pulling off like he has a tiny pistol fitted into the heel of Angle so cool. And that's that's the gift of these. Three films is especially this one is just you know they're having a lot of fun. Giving you a visual presentation. That isn't just dust. Dust dust horses some dirty buildings out. Now you're you're getting a little more visual treat here. One is the one that fits into the palm of his hand too. There's like this whole thing about a metal but then he'll have the metal sometimes over top of this guy in it'll just be like in his gloves where he can shoot through his gloves. That people. And it's like whoa. This is pretty neat. Yeah he by set early on in the film. And you're like oh that's gonna come up later on that little pom pom pistols. Seems like that would burn your fingers when you're shooting it but that's just me doing cinema. Sins again or something. One of the bowler twins he and and alley cat from the earlier film. They both were those great bowlers throughout. And i didn't realize it because i watched i think the knockoffs pretty closely in succession. Awhile back and i knew. I most likely wouldn't watch them again but i did. Watch all of the official three twice. And he is the bad guy. In his jim sparrow in wanted sobotta. And i didn't even make that connection when i'll watch wanted sobotta but also wait a minute. That guy looks familiar. So i had to do my little thing. Like oh yeah. He's the guy that sets up and kills everybody to keep raising the the bounty on him. And i'm glad he was a hero in this because i absolutely hated him in that one in sobotta film. Yeah he's very desert land out but they were fun together the two of them the acrobats in this one. This one doesn't have as strong as a villain as the other to like this one. He's not really evenly matched with. So i deal with the fact that it's the villain it's the main one is the the top mcclintock. The whole thing is like you have this mcclintock organization coming in and overtaxing people and your hiring promotion like we see agnosio. And he's got a huge draw that has mcclintock on the side of it and by the ignazio spa with a giant drum is amazing. What a great visual any pounds. And he's like good citizens and there's a great gag later on or something hits it and he immediately just goes into the spiel and he's like oh way there's some great gags in the swamp so i kind of like the idea of of kind of the bigger scope ville and being just like this organization bilking these top people. I mean we would know anything about political parties or organisations taking advantage of good people or anything. Oh i got a getting political again. But they. I mean as far individuals little weaker. He does pray a lot. Like there's definitely sort of gary cut of like he's religious obviously at the end. Yeah he's a he's a bad guy and gold trumps everything. This one has the theme of irish people. As well like I think banjo might've been coded as irish in the first movie. This red hair but you i mean. They were spending a lot of money on red wigs for this movie. Because we've got a lot of people sneaking around the town with the red wigs which is kind of unfortunate We know the irish people were not treated very well in the old west and here their villainous as far as like Skulking around the town and my red wig in never know who to trust wa wa the villain. This didn't didn't work for me as well as the first two. Like this fella i. It took me a while to even clue into that. He was supposed to be the body of the film because he just seemed more like a lackey. One of the henchmen that would get taken out by their boss for not following through on on whatever job they were supposed to do and i was like. Oh yeah wait wait wait. He's supposed to be the bad guy and his wife is two timing him with now. I forget who. who's the. Who's the out clyde. Yes clyde you. How can i forget the matthew mcconaughey of this movie and then also trying to you. Everybody's trying to get the gold and is there a reason why it's always gold dust in these movies and not gold bars. Is that ehre correct or just out of necessity. It's it's odd to be carrying around bags of gold dust that can get broken and leak out like they do in the in the second movie it leaks out all across. The road is as valentine's trying to leave the same thing that doesn't that seems like a very very bad i teach. There's gotta be a smithian town that could melt that stuff down in bars right. Drink it over the campfire sometime you talking about how weak the bad guy was totally me. I forgot to bring up the marco zoo and elliott is in the first movie. Is the sky sharkey who it seems like. He's going to be a threat and then they hire him to kill sobotta get killed almost immediately but i just wanted to bring him because he is one of those familiar western spaghetti western faces because he plays wobbles in the once upon a time in the west. Who is a fantastic character. He's the guy that Henry fonda shoots and he's got both a belt and suspenders on. He's gives the line of like how the hell can you trust him when he can't even trust his own pants and john bartha also shows up. He was the sheriff in detroit city in the first movie. And now he's back as the sheriff in this one but again. I don't think he's supposed to be the same care. It's always a different town and that's when that's when things start to get really confusing even there you see a familiar face but you mentioned that. That was one thing i wanted to talk about from the first film is that they keep upping the an t to pay off the people to kill somebody even up to the amount that they originally stolen the. I thought that was hysterical. And of course it doesn't work out. We'll pay one hundred thousand dollars to kill this guy when only wants sixty thousand dollars and then it ends up blown away in the air at the end anyway. So kind of a circus keeps coming up like not so much visually. But it's like at one point when sadat's talking with mcclintock he puts on this little cylinder in. It's that music that do do the the phrase. The show's over. Get sloops and i love the twist that 'cause early on it's almost like a circus. It's like it almost like as he fallen kind of on hard times. But then it's kind of slowly revealed that basically there's a counterfeit guy working within the company and is trailing him and join the circus to keep an eye on them and so it all pays off also. The counterfeiter has the name of pickles. Pickles the name kept coming up. I thought do. I know who pickles is supposed to know who this guy is. Show him. i don't know they ever do at the end. They show his corpse. And then i was like i don't recognize him i. It's one of those things that loses me and movies and this is just a me problem where names are brought up and if the character has been shown or i can't associated with someone i get completely lost i mean that's why i didn't enjoy miller's crossing the first couple of times i watched it 'cause they talk about a lot of people who aren't in the scene and it took me forever to realize steve shimmy was mink in that movie. Some kind of shelter on my brain works like who's pickled pickles. And i could be right because it got kinda confused over like who. Who was this pickles. But there's a samer there's a guy with white hair that two of the mcclintock henchmen are kinda roughing up and they take his watch. grace sell. I think that was pickles. That makes sense again. you know. i told you hasn't email earlier. There were a few characters in my initial nets route. I wrote somebody as maybe mayor. So yeah it's yeah so some of the characters there's a little more guests for cover. Titles the names stuff like they refer to clyde as through tenant a few times than sabinas major so again. I'm going back to like okay. Were these guys in the war together in again. Did they serve on the same side. I'm guessing did but yeah this time. Clyde this character is very much that. Hey i'm the flying weightman i'm gonna fuck up. You're playing sonata. That constant characteristics like man. You need better friends sobotta kind of a blue solution that they fought for the south that it was the civil war and which is something. I don't think you would probably see. In the states. In an american western. Have the good good guy. The hero the titular hero at that. Be a be fighting for the south. Probably obviously for very obvious reasons writer. He's a good little shit again. I was missing banjo. I mean got the pants swagger illiberal banjo but he's a good kind of like good-looking. He'll ish flying the ornaments. I think the perfect scripture. I liked him actually. He was my favourite of of the Frenemies in the films and part of it was. I'm like who's he reminded me of and then i thought oh. Yeah this is this. is matthew mcconaughey character. Even whoever dubbed him at least in the version. I watch kind of had that little staying with the ashes plan. Yeah and i thought oh great. I'm not a big mcconaughey fan. But it just kinda tickled me that. That's what he brought to mind else. This was the sauce est of of the three. In my opinion there is a lot of like cleveland. And there's this whole thing rate subodh is getting it on with this beautiful showgirl first time slash prostitute. Yeah time gets it on in these six kind of exists in the other two but not definitely subodh but this one was definitely even have this character of the sort of light neb ish guy that nervously goes into like the saloon and he every everyday but he's afraid to talk to the girls and then he ends up like grabbing one of the boobs like it was but we can't say son of a bit and this is the one where that wonderful theme song plays. We finally get a theme for him. That theme song is crazy when they start talking about how. He's the nine fingered man and look to hear that part of one of his fingers leave and cleef sexual fingers missing from. What was it like something crazy. Like putting together a playground equipment for his daughter or something. Yeah exactly it's right at a saw. I've seen the picture of his missing finger and it is literally the tip of his middle finger. it is calling him a nine finger. Man is taking a little bit far. I mean you wouldn't. I don't think you'd miss it really. My cousin loss tip of his finger in lawnmower. You don't ever even really can't even tell that it's kind of funny that that weaves its way into the song because it doesn't come up in the film itself it. It's not a plot point that you know he wouldn't be able to fire guns or something or or they. Identify am through his missing finger. Ma'am always a nine fingered man. Okay well now that you say that it's weird. 'cause not so much in this one but how you'll british dresses in audio's is a lot like how tony i omega. Black sabbath wrestles. Oh yeah. I can see that especially with the french and he is busy put up. Yeah thinking about the saloon slash whore houses in the film and it seems like there's one each one of these. There are something again from the first one that i just wanted to point out real quickly when sobotta is in his room and this is a again a scene that gets repeated in at least two of these films were the bad guys are gonna come up to his room and take care of him and in that one he does this trick where he hides behind a picture frame. All i love this yes they walk in and you see the camera pans past him and you see him in there with his hand up to his chin and that for me was the biggest laugh out of all seven of these movies that we've watched i was like that is so amazingly brilliant. I just absolutely loved it. And i just had to get that in there. Because that's my one of my favorite parts of all of these movies. I'm so glad you brought that up. I laughed out loud when that happened. And then it's like it's a mirror as well like they see the reflection in the mirror but he's actually in the frame across the room. It's like what is going on but it was so good. That out loud is in one of the standoffs. There's there showing all these guys are going to have the shootout with sabado and there's like this jew's harp at one point. I swear it sounded like they made the instrument. Go uh-huh point mooring about like buoying boring like that. Almost like what the which is ridiculous. I mean anytime. You hear that instrument. It just makes me laugh. It's like my husband pointed out it's used in godzilla vs the smog monster and it's equally funny that too when hear your point gives ever really heard like a very sedate symphony or something with the jews harpen. It doesn't have the most dignity as musical instruments. it hearkens back to the boehner's sound. They're they're definitely a chase. Did this film inexplicably. Apparently it was listed a michael medved's nineteen seventy eight bark. The fifty worst films of all time. You totally deranged. Are you serious. I was like this is a great movie. I i- anywhere reason late guy. Already we all know is a charity. Anybody who said film writing or just film lover if you've read any of his staff this this guy was like the hot take king day and there's always gonna be that one film critic that says things like that's the worst film of all time and it's like really bad like have you seen movies. Have how many movies have you seen if you think. This is bad way inexplicable. I obviously didn't any of the knockoffs but this film is so much fun. I really i think that'd be the first one i think is still cohesively. The best but return is just. It's it's a fun house ride. And dina Cleef like aw you cannot touch the sky. Yeah i liked that they bring back the gag at the beginning with the guy getting shot in the face on this one Getting shot in the face to again. We have this resurrection. Kinda thing. And i think yeah the clyde character. He seems to be much more an ally them banjo. At least in this part where it's just like. Oh yeah. I'm going to be the one that shoot you in the face Comeback and i'll get shot and that will be fake and all this kind of stuff. So i like that like that. They're doing this whole thing in order to find out where this guy stashing the gold and that it's all up in this chimney. They find this little lever that that tricks it out. It's like a giant jackpot of all those gold coming down. It is a little strange that it's all about the gold. I mean it's very much western trope of like where's the gold. But you're just coming back from the mexican revolution kind of thing while at least gold coins this time not gold dust because that would have been held to clean up. It'd be choking in their confident goal for weeks alone. There knows gold. Dustin it and it's like now i gotta take this to the smith. God it's like that has ever watched chapelle show but he added lake are a skit about tv. Crypts were guy was late grinding goal or diamonds into his omelet his dookie with sparkle. And that's where my brain goes with us. You have some. it's like a cat eats ten soul. You know i do that. He still tries to screws about over at the end there. They've been in cahoots and he's gotta try a couple more times to to put one over on supposed to not pay off that five thousand dollars them. It's not as good as the first one. But i'd have to say like one. Three two is definitely the furred Strength of these films absolutely shell. They came out on my mic scaling. So let's go ahead and take a break and we'll be right back after these brief messages. I want you to start living a happier life today as a listener at the projection booths. You will get ten percent off your first month. At better dot com. That's better help. H. e. l. p. It's a great service which is available for clients worldwide. it is not a crisis line. It's not self help. Is a professional counseling service done. Securely online uk timely thoughtful responses. 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Redefine you a conversation for wellbeing is available on your favorite podcast app. remember to subscribe and downloads to you. Don't miss an episode. hi i'm alec mapa and i'm not matthew dempsey. We host a podcast. We get real your favorite celebs and talk about how each one of us in our way is. He's welcomed ben della graham. Hi there thanks. So much for having me year peppermint. I jake shears. I hey y'all doing. Louise welcome yardley smith. Thanks for having me. This really was terrific. I love what you guys. it's important and relevant and also funny and just a great way to help a person get through their day. You can catch up on those be ready for. New conversations worked mental health one episode at a time download and subscribe to alec. Mapa hot mess without dempsey psychotherapists. Today right now do it. Because we're not so bad. Join me jaime benning on the film entries cost particularly if you enjoy stories. Like design anita raiders to mirror convincing george lucas to push him around to help gain the support of his crew. On the ailing howard. The duck prime the door opens george. Everybody got george makes a beeline to me. I'm literally back against the wall. Who puppeteer tim. Rose's emotional story behind that connick. Admiral akbar short return of the jedi or some a proud of not sell. The all star was editor pool. Hirsch tackled cutting so many successful films. The thing that i learned from working with the parliament is that tension depends on o'clock. You need to have the sense. That time is running out. Maybe a screening sound designer jeans. Inciteful chat about these work on blade runner twenty forty nine not a not a single sound from the original blade runner in the new film. A great deal of inspiration. That's the film you mentors put cost with me jamie banning so they have nine times out of ten they have to send it back to you on opened his throat in the garbage can look exactly as we envision our life too but sometimes it works out and turns out even back. Gregor fisher is baking. Numbers is too because he was Appeared with january jones in love actually and january jones and kevin bacon appeared at x. men first-class class. I've kind of fade. Those very harold in kumar. Three d christmas now that about the right to threes probably names than the prince or whatever. The mind is a joke for the oldies. I just like to see Mr freeze hiring is bad. Guys going okay. So you're cycle right. Can you ice skate head over to i tunes speaker on stitcher put in the search box from pages. Great andrew from hate movies and you're listening to the projection boost laughing after listening to some serious film discussion. And i'm over in our ship. Whm podcast dot com every tuesday. A new episode drops us ragging on bad movies whereas here at the protection. But if they're talking about good party cinema related stuff go here for the cinema. Come to us for the last. Afterwards we ate movies. Every tuesday third important character in this picture would of course have to be a woman. Kickable wildcats manager frederick. Already difficult situation of our heroes to motel. Just what are you laughing at it. You hear mr very very important man and if this yet another killer shootouts. The tricks of the compared to courage of steep going are using this against this famous bounty hunter. Dick this coming and here is this. Is the bloodbath begins. Mr steve mcgown leon match. They want you in tombstone. We'll travel together cockroach sava of the way i stick. You don't want to travel with me. Okay and then they fell into the spider's web so again we find ourselves face to face. Still just hurts. Your hand will get you beating me. It's been a long time since i played. But it's cute little game while you turn. I shoot the bullets are supposed to this folks now as you know. I'm a pretty good shot but it's always Let's say possible the miss. I'm not quite you. And i want to play but you will. And should he miss. You'll see that we don't talk because we know that you are a murderer teacher. Six horses and the woman force the strong friendship between to ask stupid than the legendary us gallon beyond from peril. I tell you what you forgot all about Got my time initiation and the end up your car. The bigger myself camilla. I have a proposition. Pistolero van the man will between the two of us. The girl it'd be passed if you weren't so damn bad you're gonna have to kill me or thank you all right. We're back and we're talking about sobotta em we're going to talk a little bit about some of the unofficial sabado films. I didn't watch the grand duel. Which i wanted to watch that movie for years. It's from seventy two and it stars leaving cleef and it was released sometimes under a title. So it's out there but there were few that were released somewhat sobotta titles. I mean we'll talk about some of these titles as we go along so i guess let's talk first abou- wanted sobotta that one. I only could find under the title. Sabado dead or alive so feels like it was released as this about a film which is really strange because this sobotta is not like any other sobotta insofar as he's pretty weak. He gets framed for murder in here. And he's on the run through the whole movie which just does not fit the subotic character whatsoever. Yeah i had a hard time with a number of these trying to figure out who was supposed to be the subotic character and this one was sort of interesting. It what i guess. I got again confused. Which seems to be my go-to on. Why is this guy going through all of this trouble. And i figured okay he. He saves he set saporta up. Kills the poisons. The livestocks Water to set about up but then he helps him escape. I'm assuming they don't show who helps him escape. But it made sense to me later that it was him so that sobotta would be on the run and that he could go after him and kill everybody else that was after him to increased the bounty to get the bounty high and then he would kill Finally and collect the bounty. I mean that's what i took from it. Because i couldn't make sense of it any other way of all the people that you don't want to chase down. I think sabado would be the guy but in this one. I don't remember him using any gadgets. I mean the camera work is pretty just like okay. Yeah this is happening. This is a movie but it's nothing where you're just like. Oh wow look at this. This is thrilling. kind of it was just. It's like this would be a decent spaghetti western but as a sabado film. It's week sauce. I feel so rewarding. This is literally all of my notes. Angry guys arguing in italian. I can't. That's i could not get engaged with this one at all again. Maybe it's of those things where like if it was divorced from sobotta if maybe if one was to approach it just as a regular spaghetti western maybe it would fare better but i just. That guy was so bland though the subotic character. And i'm trying. I'm trying to look up his name right now. And i think he's american brad hair so he's one of those guys was a football star or something and then ended up being in probably sword and sandal and spaghetti western films and he is so bland in this. That was what really killed it for me. Please besides being Fused as to what exactly was going on or why this guy freed him got him captured freed him and then kept killing everybody that was going after him Yeah it was kind of a drag the next two films the there there's one from seventy areva sobotta which is not translated Properly but it's known as sabado the killer that one fit to me as a that and dig your grave. Friends about is coming Which was aubrey too. Fulsome migo yego subrata. Those films feel like they go together for me. And i don't know. I guess it's just the fernando sancho character who really kind of pulls the films together again. It's one of these is the same character. I don't think that it is. He's got a different name in both of them and one. He's got ten children and the other he's got fourteen but then again a couple of years past. I mean the really playing into the dirty mexican stereotype which is tough times to be like. Okay yeah it's kind of funny but at the same time you know like we just still subotica just about killed the guy for calling somebody stinky mexican and so this is very much that same thing. anthony steffen as the bata in about the killer and roof bell the saturday as the bata in the degree friend. But in dig your grave friend spot as bad guy which is really kinda strange. Suddenly he goes from good guy too. He's the guy that they're avoiding in in that way. He's barely in the movie. He just shows up and chases our guys away. Richard harrison seat mcgowan character and the fernando sancho uncompetitive character. They're on the run from the sky and the kind of make him into a joke at times. They pull the wool over his eyes several times. Well and it's such a wasted. Richard harrison if may ever seen the amazing bruce tation filmed challenge of the tiger. Richardson places this guy. Dick cannon and he is like the suave est marfo he has lay his estate has topless girls playing tennis for like no reason other to be topless and playing tennis. And he's got a stache he's the man. I love ridge in harrison and then here it just seems like it's kind of and i don't think it's his fall you know he's fine. Yes just like. It's kind of a weaker richard harrison. And and yeah the mexican stereotypes Ooh especially in grave it. You know when something reminds you of the music video for genesis is genesis leak genesis Illegal alien then. Good that is not. It's not a good luck and god. I hate that song. I was even more mad. I'm like great now. This is racist some offensive but then it also makes me like even like wow racist and reminded me of a horrible genesis song like thanks movie. Sorry i misspoke because to me the two go together are dig your grave friends about his coming in watch out gringo s- about a will return those are the ones that have the same mexican character because sabado killer. That's the one in. i'll just say it this way. So you guys know which one i'm talking about. It's the one with the two dudes mexican and the car. That's the that's the killer which stands out to me completely different. And i'm surprised that that one had sobotta in the name of it at all. And it's just like what the hell's going on here and then to have a car and all. This just felt so bizarre. The only thing. I liked about it. So it's bother and the mexican bankrobber name mangusta mongo sta the guy that plays him has a fucking killer and i wanna see more movies with this guy. And i'm pretty sure he was in. He was in one of the. I think he's in the original jangle as maybe the share for the mayor. So he's got this great look to him so sabado the killer sticks out like a sore thumb and ironically digging agree friends about his coming and watch out gringo about a will return fit together for me even though the original title of watch out. Gringo is judas tomas monday as which is a judas take your money so there's no sobotta in the title at all with that water and i don't think there's a character named sobotta. I ended up film. That's the one without the subotic character which i was like. Okay why am i watching this one with did you do to me. Mike what are you doing. I have to go back to this name dick cannon that we just completely washed over and you don't insert that boehner sound. After she says that. Name tom please dick hanan. Also that film features assane were bruce. Lay bruce that's the thing that first time they get i get confused with these knockoffs like how to pronounce it. 'cause they're all variations of things but He fights a bowl lay. Luckily it doesn't look like a real bowl was killed. As far as i can tell yes not cannibal holocaust or anything but But yeah. I mean dick cannon. Come on he's got the mustache of a cannon to like that's you see a man with that smart that smirk that mustache you know. He is swimming and trim unlike the non sevada in watch out gringo turn. I didn't think the the cinematography was better and this one than some of the other knockoffs in a do. Give the phrase necktie party referring to hangings. I thought that was creative. The mexican stereotyping you. That just really put me off of those two. And now now i've gotten so confuses to which ones are which but whichever had the same the same the same actor as different characters. And i thought like i mentioned to you. Mike that i just kept thinking of mel blanc. Doing his mexican characters in the species of pot does cartoons. They didn't hit a like that in the are the official trilogy with the Scudo Whatever his name was in the third one they didn't go that hard bronco ronco. Yeah you could see that. That could have been a possibility and of course. That's all up to the dubbing and going that route they didn't have to go that route and again that kind of brings up that question for me of how much of this was scripted. And how much of this did. Whoever was distributing this in america. Add to the characterization of those guys. Because i think it was on the episode for crumbs. Jesus shows the way the highway when you spoke to gil yon zo. He was like the script doesn't really matter. When you know you're gonna dub all this stuff you can. You can keep changing however much you want and the characters can say what they want. And so it just makes me curious to know if if that really stereotyped characterisation was in the films originally the you actually go like. Oh i've got to put out a max mexican accent for this character and then just lay it on thick as possible because otherwise it gets lost. You know if you're slightly mexican people like what looks like mexican character but you barely doing an accent or i can't even tell so you just like yes. Speedy gonzales upsurge just like just gone. Everybody got to work. We gotta get ready for the party. The way they refer to the characters that he plays in this. It's it's greasier and you know which is way more contemporary slander towards towards that. So it just really guys hitting the lowest common denominator here. It's not necessary. I get that we're in the south. Were near the mexican border. More likely than not and in all these films there are mexican characters but this seemed like it was the first time i've ever really kind of go into that level. I'm crying front. Yeah i mean it's really the closest and the threes. I mean the angel or angels in the third one man it it does get confused for all the conti like you if your alley cat is also alternately referred india but it's not really used derogatorily. He's a hero. He's total like stoic. Cpa agile at ask that you really love so i mean yeah that was kind of i think something very refreshing about those three that e kind of especially with the western genre especially with american ones. You kind of brace yourself. you know. you're going to see some things that have dated well. But i don't think you really have a whole lot of original ones these this the the mexican stereotype rough these off so it was just and i think all of us i mean we're all film fans. There's a lot of stuff we can enjoy love. That isn't the hasn't aged well certainly affects one would probably argue by eight. Like eighty percent of my favorite films probably fall somewhere into that at the time but even for that. Yeah it's it's yeah. It's a bit much and at least they never had indio or someone say to indio peace pipe or something silly like that. I mean it's it's barely even. I wouldn't even associate him as native american really other than his hair outfit. It just doesn't come up and there's you know there's no reason for to really sobotta. Never crete's him any differently because of that ad as opposed to even sabado the killer. There's a little bit of like you know. Oh yeah he's my mexican friend. Little prejudice commercial tracking wretched prejudices prejudice. React to someone because of their religion or their conquers spread out coups kim's driver making a friend. You are prejudice. You'd think of jimmy as you jewish friend and not your friend who told you that word. Oh edwato ha del. He's my mexican friend. I have to point this out. Just because i get a kick when this shows up in movies and has no real connection to my hometown. But they do mention the fresno fountain in dig your grave friend and a my ears always perk up. When i hear hear that word and movie so four films would be okay as again just western but as bottom films. It's not the character whatsoever. I would probably rewatch watch out. Gross about it will return and degray friends about us coming but of the killer once sabado. I'm okay if i never watched those two again the dig your grave and i may be confusing them. I put them in when i watched him. I think i put them in order of release. And i wanna say the third one. I watched which appears to be. Dig your grave. Friend seemed to me my least favorite in part of it had to do with the effect like the music was kind of like library. Music and there were really abrupt cuts between scenes. Were like took the needle off the record and then and put down another one on a different record and it was just kind of like And i don't think the image was good on that which you know is just something that happens when you're trying to source out all these films but i don't know i don't know which one side watch again. I'm trying to think of what had the most interesting stuff in a missing gadgets. We're missing some of the fun. Allow some of them were kinda dour and except for the one with the car that seemed a little bit on the goofy side but the i'd be hard pressed to return any of these great friends about his coming. I think the version of theft that i watched was actually like a fan dubbed slash fan edit of it because every once in a while they would be speaking english than suddenly. They jumped to spanish. Okay german i knew there was one where they go to german. Yeah yeah for. The last one was very german because the title came up in german and it ended with the german ward for end by then the other were there was at least one where they jump into italian and it would be just like weird like one off shots. Just like oh. Here's a shot. The sabbatical may be like you know. See or whatever. And i'm like okay Why was that not in the english version of this film. Like did you trim that or is it just missing from like how you're talking about how there's abrupt cuts and just the music turning off you know. Some of it is because these things are not preserved in. They look like garbage. There was at least one of them. That i watch where i was just like. Wow this is not even paying scan. It's basically just whatever's off. The side of the frames is off the side of the frame. You just get the middle part of that. So good luck on. I remember we had an issue with a couple of them being undubbed and or subtitled. So i know you had to track down different versions. So that's probably what led to these these kinds of chopped up versions and that always makes me think of the italian horror movies. Were all of a sudden. The scenes that were cut for american release or maybe even british release are just all in in dubbed italian and there's no subtitles at the scene. And you're like okay. Well that was obviously cut from our prints. And i just don't get to know what they're saying and that's fine because it's usually just dialogue scene said end up getting cut like that they're not cutting the gore and the sex necessarily or in these cases. They're not cutting out the the shoot shootouts. It's you know. Let's let's speed up the pace a little bit on these films. Get rid of some of the talking so many strange versions of these yet. What you're saying totally reminds me of like deep red. I think it was where it was just like the scene where the psychic is stalking is half of. It's an italian half of it's an english or like four flies. Five grave velvet. I don't think i've ever seen these version of that. It's always were. They will speak many languages because it's been cold together from all these different sources. I'm sure there's a better version out there by now. But back when i was on a gentle kick when we were doing a bunch of our gentles on the show your good luck with that yeah there's seems like that in phenomena which is one of the few movies that i know as i watched it as creepers as a kid i knew like oh yeah this is a different version. A lotta times. I didn't catch that when i was younger. But yeah you watch that. And it's it's jennifer connelly being being dubbed over in italian in certain scenes and like okay. This was some of the stuff that was cut out. And some of the nice like flag for you where it's like. Oh okay. I'm seeing what's different you know when i saw metropolis and it's like all of a sudden it gets it's the print that's beat the hell it's like. Oh this is the one that they rescued from like a brazilian film. Volt or whatever. So it's like oh. This is interesting as comparison tool but at the same time. I'd like the appear real beautiful print of this sets pristine throughout. I do appreciate being able to tell the difference. Actually because that whole idea of different versions of films is something that drives me absolutely crazy like. What's the definitive version of these films. Just got hacked pieces depending on the region that they were played in and we cut this stuff out in america. Because we don't want a bunch of talking. We cut this stuff out in england because of the gore and violence in germany because of this and in asian countries because of this and then it just becomes this thing where you get a disc from whoever whoever's releasing these film and there's five different versions of the movie and i'm like i can't watch. I can't watch this movie five times even though i like it. I don't want to do that when especially like what was different. Others one shot for one second. It was a horse that fell in the in. the british. didn't like the violence. Okay great yes. Sometimes i think they should call the swiss cheese westerns. Ourika take another break in preview for next week show a golden. When the bully turns red will be dead l. Tunisia the band alenia Side by side. They kill for what they believe. Goal l. santo the holy one. What the lord. Giveth took away at alita. The woman she gave aid and comfort to the enemy then blasted into pieces. General needed many guns gotten one bullock golden woman aborting general spaghetti western month concludes what they look at a bullet for the general until they wanna think this week's co host heather and marks mark with the latest with you sir. Well since we're still stuck at home kind of for the most part here. I'm operating under the smooth brain initiative and don't have much setup in the way of shows i just flying by the seat of my pants about the only thing i've got going on as i've got some swag up at t public now so if anybody's interested in getting a shirt with my logo on you can go to my website and track that down but that's about it. I just releasing stuff here and there and trying to wrote my daughter into recording episodes on things like that so hopefully the role to get back to normal or my world. We'll get back to normal soon. I have my wake up every Arriving this week and heather. What's new with you. Well i recently wrote about the twenty twenty independent film Brennan colvin's dim valley which slopes into the sensual and magical world of bottlenose. You can read this and more my work over at diabolique magazine dot com and other. I was very happy to see a new episode of our sorry and who issue of your newsletter. Come out. That was a great always. Enjoy that thank you and everybody's interested as the mondo heather newsletter plugging mic. Plug plug plug. And if you're interested you can send me email address over at my email address. Which is heather. Marie drain at shemale dot com. And i'll get you on. The list will thank you so much folks are being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks especially to our patriot community. If you want to join the community visit patriotic dot com slash projection booths every donation get helps a projection does take over the world fact. Do both is just say the fastest gun in the west. The only invincible in the country saw you're tonight vote for the money global invincible contract side mm-hmm only invincible latin countries on a final think Erin confirmed made it to the end of this episode of the projection and as the end credits roll. We wanted to thank you the listening audience here at the projection booth. Loop podcast with y. Host extraordinaire bang an airwave media podcast.

stangl sobotta yul brenner chris wimmer colonel mortimer vanclief subodh sabado cepeda frank kramer aldo conti jesse james butch Db cooper chess mr mark begley gianfranco perelini jimbo sir tana franco perelini sobotta sir tunnel
Special Report: Mad Dog Time (1996)

The Projection Booth Podcast

2:15:49 hr | 2 months ago

Special Report: Mad Dog Time (1996)

"An airwave media podcast. American history is full of infamous people places and events like the salem which trials and the black socks baseball scandal alcatraz prison in the bermuda triangle. Db cooper and bonnie and clyde and lee harvey oswald. I'm chris wimmer. Join me on the infamous america. Podcast for stories of some of the darker and more controversial chapters of american history all told with cinematic music and sound design subscribed for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. The old west is an iconic period of american history. I'm chris wimmer join me on the legends of the old west podcast to hear the true story of law unlike wider bass reeves in the texas rangers outlaws laws. Like jesse james and butch and sundance and native american battles of the lakota comanche and apache. We use cinematic storytelling and sound designed to bring these stories and many more to life. Subscribe for free on apple podcast spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Show people pay money to see this movie. When they lots of theater they want. Cold sodas popcorn and no masters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting is boring. Move off You're gonna die holiday for some shuna system. And then i'm gonna shed a boat shinbones for two more bullets almost dead and blow your brains. Just gonna shoot. Wants to far and then go home. A life in crime can be crazy considered back payroll but would the head of the mob coming back vic. Creek is good now bigger skipping out. Things are really going again insane. Welcome home. can you join us for around the rosie funny senate thanking loves jay park and anyone who doesn't kid. I want you to be very nice to ben but if he gives you any trouble shooter will just have to bite the bullet. Oh no that's the way it's going to be my way. No he had my waist okay. United artists pictures presents. I thought you should know she'd be joe because brand blown. If i told a story of power it's mad dog time but trail. He thinks nine day nobody and crash services in other words. Thank you all for coming whole shooting philosophy. Quick between here. The nick. Nick picnic over mic agitated people to kill me. Look at me. I just round bullets. Balkan gabriel byrne richard dreyfuss. Jeff goldblum diane lane larry. Bishop gregory hines. Kyle mclachlan book reynolds. Go pack your bags and leave town. Nobody tells me what ben hop home. Pack your bags and leave town joachin or is it. The medication been role home. Pack your bags and leave town welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. mike white. Joining me is mr brian commonly. Hello show me also. Joining us is mr andrews jones. You want to know my philosophy life on this special episode. We are looking at the nineteen ninety six film from writer director actor. Larry bishop mad dog time released in the wake of pulp fiction. It's something of a metaphysical gangster film with one of the most astounding casts ever put together the film stars. Gabriel byrne's as brass balls ben. London the man who's been left in charge while his boss vic played by richard dreyfuss has been sent to the funny farm. Meanwhile mick play by jeff. Goldblum has vicks girl. Grace played by diane lane on ice. We will be spoiling this film as we go along. And i don't really think that's an issue kind of needs to be spoiled. This is a request from address one of the projection booths. Lovely patron donors so. When was the first time you saw mad dog time. And what did you think. I told the story about how i discovered this film when we covered it as the first film on our podcast. The world is wrong. It's a fairly common story stumbling across a film and loving it and then never being able to find anyone to talk about it with. And i actually. I discovered it under the title trigger happy and that was in the late nineties so cut to a few years just a few years ago. And i'm starting to get into movie podcasts. And the projection. Booth was one of my favorites. You've talked with several people. I've worked with over the years and i was always kind of expecting you. Get to mad dog. Time as i added one film podcast after another to my diet i experienced something else that you may be common for listeners of film podcast is that kind of went from hoping you cover it to dreading that. You'd have the conversation without me. So eventually i knew i needed to start a podcast just to make sure that i could be in the conversation about this and make a couple of points that i think are really important about it and they are these one that everyone of the movie stars. The actors in this film gets the opportunity to do something. Great that we've never seen them do before and just on that alone. I often talk about. Gregory hines death scene like that should be his real of the greatest things he's ever done and i feel like that's true. So many actors in this and just that alone with this cast means it should be a film that is in the conversation so that and then the other thing is that this kind of personal for me is that i just feel like this has to be on the short list of the greatest jewish gangster films. I got to interview. Larry bishop and he. He didn't agree with that at all. He didn't see it in that way at all but that either that confirmed my hypothesis for me even more because i feel like it's just a genuine expression we can discuss that So that's my general experience with this fabulous film so brian. Did you experience film before. Andreas or did he take you. Strap you down to a chair. You know like marvin nash. And reservoir dogs and just make you watch the film. i found it before. I found andreas. I think i got it. There was a pawnshop in olympia where we both lived where i was looking for. Jerry lewis movies could for some reason they always had an abundance of jerry lewis films on vhs and psych went there and there was like a gold mine as getting. Oh the geisha boy cracking up this is so exciting and they had trigger-happy and as like should i get that movie. I heard it's the worst. I only knew it. From the roger. Ebert review where he just ripped shreds but that makes me want to watch it even more like that really makes me interested in what this could be and so i took it home. I think i watched it that day. Just because i was like. I've always wondered about that. Movie instantly. loved it very much and that was one of those movies where i had to strap a bunch of friends chairs and be like you need to watch this movie or at least scenes from this movie and i. There was a christmas soon afterward. I made a tape. And i put some of my favorite stained from this movie on that tape and gave it to people for christmas. Did you lose any friends over the film. Nobody agreed with me that it was good. I was definitely a man alone and so it took me. I think to be friends with andrea fears later to meet someone else. Who likes this movie. As much as may not definitely more than me even as much as i love it on loves it even more full transparency. I had heard of the film. But i'd never seen it until andres actually said you're going watch this film. I'm going to send you a dvd copy of this in the mail. Tell me as soon as you watched it. I will admit the first time i watch this. I did not like it whatsoever. But then i spoke with bishop. I'm doing my due diligence. I'm doing my research. I did my interview and as soon as he started to talk about it. Being in that kind of more kind of like a breakfast type of thing very very Waiting for good dole. Kind of stuff. I'm just like okay. This isn't a gangster film. This is a distillation of gangster film. And i think that it's very and well. It's lucky and it's unfortunate at the same time that this came out in the wake of a lot of pulp fiction clones. And so this kind of just got lumped in with these and it was one of these like this movies. Too clever forts owned bridges. Get the fuck outta here and yeah. There's that infamous. Roger ebert review where he just tears it to shreds and and then when i watched it again i was like okay. Yeah i think i get it now. I think i understand the appeal this move. I don't think i love it as much as you guys do. But i definitely can see the appeal. There are certain things like even watch it even the second time through. There were things that i never picked up on until i was listening to. Your guys says podcast on it. And i like oh rita in grace. Our sisters never dawned on me that their sisters and the way that the just the way the characters are introduced because they keep talking it reminds me a little bit of fellow the way that they keep talking about fellow all the time and othello takes awhile before it gets on stage. It's very much like that with vic and then it's very much like that with grace as well and when they talk about grace at the beginning of the film and like hey vicks coming back is coming down from the funny farm again blah blah blog. Grace in were you know. Hey jeff goldblum you're sitting on grace and she's kind of your grace in the whole. I love the word play and this film and then they cut to ellen barkin. I'm just like okay. It's grace and it took me even the second time. I'm just like wait. That's not grace seinfeld so stupid watch. A movie is smarter than i am. And i don't like to admit that. Sometimes larry bishop is a smart guy. He's like you know you know chm. Schopenhauer like how many times. You talked to a screenwriter. They dropped some schopenhauer on you. I mean this yeah. He brought he put a lot of philosophy into this. The cast has got gotta get you everyone like when you're watching those gunfights and the different gunfighter. Who come in like we could talk about how those gunfights or staged behind those debt. Those big wooden desk. Which i think is great but to me one of the first things about this movie when you first watch out just for like oh here comes someone else. And here's someone else. And here's and he's in it and she's in it and paul anka. What the fuck is it. it never stops. The film doesn't admittedly. Oh and then. Burt reynolds is here. And then richard pryor it. Just just keep turning over cards and just like. There's something about that. That i don't know i don't know many. I guess there are other movies that kind of do that. But the weird star power. And this is i think what the the first hook that and also jeff goldblum and gabriel byrne. I think particularly the two of them playing the kind of characters that we really don't ever get to see them play with gabriel byrne. This was like for me. His fish called wanda with kevin. Kline where you're like holy shit. Gabriel byrne can be really really funny. Nobody ever lets him do that. He just brew his through his whole career and who knew that inside of him there was just this clown. I always thought that. Gabriel byrne should've been way bigger than he was. You know it's like when the usual suspects came out like he was the name you know it was like. Oh yeah i've seen this guy plenty of times and it's like okay. I don't know who. This benicio del toro guy says oh. There's another baldwin brother who's this guy who's telling the story to the cops. I don't even know who this cat is. And it's just for me. It was all gabriel byrne gabriel byrne and he was just like the guy and then it's like he still shows up and things but whatever happened. Gabriel byrne kind of thing. It's like he should've been the star like now. It's like we talk about even with this film. It's like you talk about the stars that are in it and it's like forget that he's in it even though he's so great in it but it's just like he's not that same level as like a goldblum or dreyfuss or some of these other guys where you're just like. Oh yeah they're in it. This is amazing. And it's almost like and gabriel byrne. And i feel bad because he is terrific and i just wish that he had climbed to more stellar heights. Because he's got the chops to do basically whatever he wants. What would you say. The high point for him is miller's crossing probably probably i mean it's it's definitely not that possession film with patricia cat. You know yeah thank you. He's now in war. The world's he does a lot of tv. Were the world's the vikings or something like that was the vikings. I don't know which one and then he did. He was in treatment. I guess he figured out. Hey that's that's the place to work. But even like in hereditary which was a big movie. He was sort of less person people talked about. They talked about all the other people over. Even though he's one of the main people in that movie. I forgot he was even in that. Until you said it which you know shame on me kind of thing. I mean while toni collette just kind of own that movie and then that creepy fucking a little girl did you see death of a ladies' man that came out last year now. Great film gabriel byrne stars as a college professor. Who's who's having a brain tumor and it manifests as His life turning into musical numbers with leonard cohen songs. So it's all based on leonard cohen music. And it's pretty weird in great. I think it's it's might be the closest thing to his performance in mad dog time in terms of a sense of him being kind of play getting to be playful inside of it. I love that this movie begins with this. Waste over and this kind of like where in space and we're and this is the story of vic and vix world and we're traveling through the cosmos vicks world is very similar to our world. But it's an alternate dimension so it's almost like you can say anything that happens in this movie. Sorry roger ebert but everything that happens in this film is taking place in another dimension so it can be as weird as as crazy as non realistic as you possibly wanna get. Because this isn't the real world baby. And i love that. They have that caveat right there at the beginning to be like that set me up. We're gonna do whatever the fuck we want. We're in a world where we have gangsters that have shootouts behind desks or in a world where there's basically nightclubs do we see the sun at all this movie. I don't think we know sun and the only time they're outside or dislike these buildings around everyone in there in the you don't really when they're driving. It's all in the car and you never get really shot to the cars driving around very kind of cramped movie in a way listening to that interview. That dipa larry bishop when he's talking about how they're shooting in an alley and they're all these rats and ellen barkin doesn't want to deal with these rats and just like that was surreal alley it just. It feels very sound stagey to me in a good way. It's kind of that one from the heart artificial world type of thing at the very end. There's this point where jeff goldblum kicks a can. And i believe that he really kicks that cam but it looks like it's an effect like there's a string on it that pulls it up towards the camera and maybe there is what it's like. It's it's exactly it gives these these real places. I guess this weird sent the whole film. Has this weird sense of artifice. Cow mclachlan's lehrer. I was watching it again last night. And i just i laugh. Every time i see this he has a big like the their use of rugs in this film was great because they use rugs and desks to turn just these big warehouse spaces into what seemed like real places and his layer also has little jet in it in this red sports car and they're eating sushi. It's just a haul this like weird thing like let's make him classy as we can possibly make an income mclachlan's layer. It's like all this couches are kind of in the middle of guessing. An airplane hangar. But then you can't really use it. Because they have to move the couches every time he wants to use his airplane and then in the basement of this vicks place. Which is it. Looks like a big hotel nightclub really. They're not use the basement for anything other than to desks in iraq in the middle of his big. If you're going to need some storage for a building. That's i guess they put it elsewhere and just have private little john in any other movie. Those seem to take place in little rooms. But the fact that it's like in this big thing. And that i feel adds a lot to that kind of samuel beckett field at breakfast thing really makes it feel like theater and like adds to this absurdity the that makes it more artistic than if it was just a regular room. Just the fact that it's end as giant huge basement when the framing of those deaths is really nice to the way that they're on either side of the screen we see them and that we have these guys facing often it's basically it's like a showdown it's like a a leone fell but that they're sitting behind these deaths which also kind of says like the character from what's the time in the west who is really taking over the mythos of the west by building the railroad and he does more damage with a fountain pen than most people do guns and it's very much like we're not going to pretend that we use fountain pens. We will use guns. And we'll have these elaborate shootout here but always behind the desks which i was just like well. That's kind of a nice way of doing it. And there's just something about the difference of the hand movement of picking up a gun off of a desk as opposed to pulling it out of your holster. There's just something that's really cool about that. It's it also feels like poker scenes in movies like the because they're sitting down at desks desks there dressed. They're giving each other a lot of attitude. But it's all faces hands and that those kind of vegas kind of movements and that's the other thing you know you you talked with larry as well. Larry my buddy larry. We'd larry bishop as well because he grew up inside of the rat pack. I just feel like that's what all of this stevenson. When he's talking about vix world he's talking about like. I feel like the film is talking about that era of like. Can you imagine being a kid. And growing up with dean martin as like. You're just fun guy was at barbecues with you. Your dad's pal going to pick up a wiffle balls off the roof with result. There's just something i feel like. That's also part of the just a very organic feel of this movie. That makes it anything. But like a tarantino clone it might have wrote in on that wave but it feels so organic to particularly this one guys very odd experience of time. Like a child's i view of the rat pack. And that you kind of have that feeling throughout this whole film. Not like it's shane. And you're seeing it through the child's view is he's now grown up and delivered this to us but that's one of the things that once he delivered. Larry delivered that piece of information. It just opened up the whole film on this other level. It's almost like this movie. Needs an introduction. By larry be like. Hey just so you know what you're about to see but yeah i mean what helps is the The soundtrack where it's like you know if you're not hearing frank or dino singing you're hearing instrumental versions of it or you're hearing paul anka doing on my way. Which essentially was frank song until alvis took it over and then said vicious music really helps cement that as well the idea of this taking place in a nightclub i mean i can imagine that a kid like leary must've spent a lot of time on the casino floor even though you're not allowed as a child but i'm sure you know whatever frank wants frank gets kinda thing or joey who knows how much power joey bishop had in the the rat pack but yet it is it is fascinating that way in the more i think about it the more you know. We have talked about braxton back. And the more i mentioned othello. I keep thinking more. Shakespeare stuff. And i'm thinking of like this is almost like hamlet loses his mind basically war. He pretends to lose his mind. And this is almost like hamlet coming back from the looney ben you know and it's just like okay well. What state is denmark in. Now that i'm back you know. What kind of foolishness has my uncle gotten up to. My uncle brass balls ban. Sorry oh what a set of balls at. I those type of lines i would just like. Yeah this kind of remotely. Oh and you've got all of this subterfuge you've got the way that com- mclachlan this trying to manipulate the situation. And he's he basically is shakespeare villain especially the way that he's just like okay. Well this guy is going to take out this guy and this guy is going to take out this ad that i'm going to be in power and that's it and then you have like this other players that come in and they're just there to help this the nations of power brokering that are going on and then the kind of like a good shakespeare villain and a good chase. Lear spear play you get so many deaths. I mean by the end of this film. They're only four people that are still alive. Everyone buys like a shakespeare play. You're right are you a fan of christopher jones. Because when i talk with larry bishop he was. It's funny. He was the actor he couldn't stop talking about like when i of all the people in this movie all he was like. Oh you know. Christopher jones in everyone. I told i got this person in the because i told him christopher jones was going to be in it and now the film is actually kind of a reunion of wild in the streets. Because it's got. Larry bishop and richard pryor and christopher jones. That was my way and people hear this later. That was by way of getting in. With larry like you. You find that subject that you start the personnel fine. I usually. i'm like how'd you get into the business. But with him used born into it. But i'm just like i'd love wild in the streets. I was just like hey tell me about your experience shooting that movie and i think could be fair to people i think. He almost spends more time speaking about wild in the streets. The mad dog. Time but i was eating eating with a spoon i was just like i love wild in the streets so this was great. Tell me more stories about shelley winters so you were so. You are familiar with christopher jones. Yeah and so having him. Show up in here as the fake falco. Yes the trick next. That was great to see him. Show up in this. And then when richard pryor showed up on screen. I was like really. You've got richard prior to be in this. That was great. And this is like he was in lost highway. The next year. I think ninety seven was lost highway but he looks so much better in this than he didn't lost highway. His health must've just declined so quickly. And i know he's only on screen for like twenty seconds and mad dog time but still he seems loosen. He looks healthy and it was just so great to see him. Part feels like there was a scene and they made it into a dream sequence type in a way it feel like that part where you see. Larry bishop pesident. Mortician and then richard pryor and the way. It's kind of like or sorry. Joey bishop like the way kambas fading and out in the weight feels kinda dreamy. Feels like there was like a longer scene there and they kind of condensed it. I don't know for time because he thought it was more interesting. But like i wish there was like deleted scenes because i feel like that feels like a deleted scene. That's put into a booby shortened. Yeah unfortunately this movie has gotten no respect. I'm surprised that does even released on. Dvd cause you finding it in a dollar ban at if feels like that. It feels like when i was working blockbuster. This would have shown up one copy and if it didn't rent within six months they would have just thrown the ninety nine cents sticker on it and put it into the band. Yeah that's pretty much how i got. It was hollywood video. It's exactly what it was. It's actually kind of become a little bit of a. I don't know our and we've taken it on like with. The world is wrong podcast. We really want people to all the films we cover. We want. we want to champion. But there's something that's really special about this one. That just feels like we are. Podcast will have succeeded if we can get this film into the conversation because it just it deserves it and larry bishop is such an interesting film figure as an actor and all of stuff he brings. It just feels like this is a way into a very particular an interesting view of film then. Of course your your show has a lot more has a much bigger audience. So we're all we've already we've already achieved that a little bit one. Thank you for putting out on video so people can not have to try to find a vhs copy some place or like one of the elusive dvd's although actually we did uploaded to imyo so that when we released this but since then it has become available on to be so people can watch legally with commercials and hoopla. I watched it on hoopla today so you can use your library card to watch mad dog. Time commercial-free kids start doing your book reports on mad dog. I was completely honest. I didn't like this movie. The first time i've watched watching it the second time. He's just think there's so much more to this that you could write book reports on this. There should be a lot more scholarship on this because it is so dense and not only. Are there rhines in terms of there being a vic and neck and a mic through this. But there's also rhyming females that come through at there's rhyming ideas the come through it. There's just there's even just the refrain of like what is mad dog time. And what is the you pointed out on your podcasters that great line. Gregory hines where he talks about. You know mad dog time and trigger-happy all in one sentence and then the idea of Grace is the one that triggers vicks happiness. I mean they're so it's great that there's this level to the dialogue and he could just pass it off and be like whatever it's too full of itself but i really find that there's a lot of intelligence behind this thing and that you can't just brush it off no problem. Just be a whatever. Fuck this movie. But i think really you gotta give it some time and sit with it and think about it because there is more to it. I must say that this movie will possibly change your life. But there's definitely something to it. It shouldn't just be thrown into the ben and then people say oh that's just another tarantino cloud speaking of ca- tarantino clowns I i believe brian was thinking about. This didn't come up with some kind of a list of your favorite. Hair tino clones. So i'm a big fan of the tarantino clones and no one else is and there was a time right. Tried to start a thread on facebook. Awhile ago being like. Let's take all those post published movies ever was like why. Why would we ever want to revisit any of those movies. Ever and that's like a w- it was just a weird genre that just kinda dropped on our laps in the nineties and then they're still low remnants of it you know but i i just feel like and this will be i. It makes sense why it's grouped into it. And i feel like its existence is probably because pulp fiction. I don't think this movie could have gotten the money if you if a if a tarantino world hadn't existed before this and you have all your like actors from yesteryear mixed with new actors like people look funny so definitely works in that in that world of pulp fiction and it has the aggressive writing like tarantino but this is so much better than like a two days in the valley but but i'm also a big fan of like things to do in denver. When you're dead which is another weird take on tarantino genre or eight heads. All duffel bag is good too. I mean y you know like i feel like the all of these movies may be need to be watched again just because it was an interesting thing that happened where everybody wanted to write their clever philosophizing. Shoot someone in the face comedy. There were a lot of good things that came out of it. I actually i think. I remember liking to days in the valley. I think mostly because it introduced me to shelley's iran. If memory serves there were some good. There was some bad. I mean you could probably even say things like lost highway might not have gotten green that without this because it was. That was three years after i mean we wrote this pulp fiction wave for a long time afterwards and any time. There were gangsters or thoroughly written dialogue. Sometimes some more clever than others. There're some filmmakers for better for worse that are still working today because of pulp fiction. I mean you look at. I mean i love doug lyman but people were just like oh. We'll go was a tarantino clown. Or i don't like bryan singer but people are like. Oh yeah usual. Suspects was a tarantino clown and there was some good. There's some bad. I mean i. I don't remember liking truth or consequences new mexico but you know i did like love and a forty five so there were a bunch of these movies out there. I remember your point brian. There was an article written advocate. Vanity fair where they're trying to group all of these things and they were calling them scuz- cinema. I was like well. I don't know if that necessarily works or not. And they gave a pretty good list of some of these posts pulp fiction films and some of them were great and others. I'm just like oh man. If i never have to think about that film again like disney turns on the radio. I'll be okay with that. thanks does nurse battleground. it's totally if you really look at it. You can even count like bottle rocket or hard eight. Like you can even say paul thomas anderson started in that post pulp fiction tarantino sorta world in a way of like a hit man and like samuel jackson vr. It's about a heist gone wrong or everyone's talking about pop culture and a little bit of wear talking about what they're eating and it's like this whole i mean it. I think it the nineties which is into that like seinfeld is also the same way but without the murder were just people talking about what they're eating and pop culture. So there's there's something going on. I don't know if it was just all of culture. Canas died in the nineties and exploded is almost what it feels like. All the pieces kind of fell fell down by. Larry david and quentin tarantino. I hadn't really put those together. But that's kinda perfect. It's very this much the same kind of writing. It's tarantino movies in a way you can say your movies about nothing sort of like. He is more plot. But it's you know people talking about bullshit that not really talking about exposition. But talking about just what they did. Or what the eight or what. They're watching that is very much a ninety thing. I mean think about all the conversations. They haven't monks in seinfeld on the table for number one condiment in america. Do you know why because people like to say south extreme. If you have any salsa we need much also wears this also also bush be impossible for a spanish person to sell set and that gets between also you have the celtics after this also should show solution. I'm really serious. I think that's a good idea just talking. Well what's the show about nothing that's right. And then you have kramer in hawaiian shirts in everyone. In pulp fiction wearing hawaiian shirts just feels very much. Like seinfeld's obsessive comics and superman and that's very much like and true romance. I feel like there's definitely like a thing going on. There's a conversation between. Larry david tarantino in a way. This movie mad dog time fits into that world very much. It's a but it's but it's definitely shouldn't be thrown in need tarantino rip-off bargained ben like you said. I think there's something more interesting going on here. Part of is just lives in the performances. Like i think the performances in this oh special but also i feel like there is something. That's pretentious and the best way as we were talking about with this film. I think when the tarantino rip-off thing doesn't work is when there's a like trying to be cool thing going on and i don't feel like this is trying to be cool. Feels like it's going out of its way to be kinda goofy and it just happens to be. I mean it actually is very cool but that goofiness and that i don't know the pretension of gray the places called grace's dna and there's a because she has a baby and the just the just the philosophy the philosophizing and everyone has their own philosophy that this film is such a philosophical film. Like that kind of stuff just feels like it puts it just slightly a mall in a slightly alternate universe lake like fix world. It puts an individ- world. Everybody should love jeff goldblum for whatever reason you love. Jeff goldblum behead in malcolm or his role and invasion of the body snatchers. Keep bring something to the party and he brings so much to the party in this film endlessly fascinating to watch and i love the fuse. Now doing the typical jeff goldblum mendes. He's not doing that. Stuttering stammering thing that you know the takeaway teeny was just like okay. Just do jeff goldblum impersonation for this role in. God love him. I love him and four ragnarok but in this he brings something so different and he brings. Jeff goldblum cool. He brings that the long fingers tickling the ivories doing a jazz standard type of jeff goldblum performance to this and i just love him in this role he is so cool and just so damn sexy too. I think it's got to be the leash neurotic. Roy's ever played usually place someone. Who's cool but neurotic like address. Parker the fly but here there is no anxiety. He is the most calm person in the whole movie in a way and only only at the very end does he seemed to break when he makes Fun of ellen. Barkin wh what she said and he cut it turns into a little bit of jeffcoat. Like the jeff gobble you know in that moment. Raise all making fun of earn kind of excited about that moment. But before that. I mean yeah that part where. He's massaging ellen. Barkin like inner thigh. That's super hot at super sexy goldblum Like i want. Jeff globally next to me doing that to me every night. Yes please i mean. We all know that. Richard dreyfuss can go fucking shit and here. He is given a ticket. A you can be bob in this movie. You're not the doctor anymore. You're the guy from the looney bin and you come back and everything is wrong in your world. You don't know where your wife is girlfriend. You don't know you you've got this guy who's running stuff brass balls ben. Who's just a fuck up. And he couldn't lose his shit end. Just go crazy through this entire performance. Which would be very fitting with the character. but he doesn't is just. He is the calm center of the world. Even when he has that incredible moment i mean. Got the whole sequence of paul anka singing my way. And gabriel byrne trying to take over. I love paul anka and his reactions. Burns's straight men act sees doing some classic straight men. Acting in that scene looks annoyance. He keeps giving gabriel berman. He's like he just kind of any shorter than gabriel byrne. Just like looking up in these little like side. I'd like what is this guy doing. He's ruining my song and he's b.'s. Embarrassing himself and that's the scene. That when i showed the people that lose people for whatever reason they get such secondhand barest seen gabriel byrne like being goofy which is where two people and in him interrupting that song. I've had a few people be like. I can't handle this. This is too uncomfortable for mazes too embarrassing to watch and they leave that scene then they miss out what about to happened because it's so good so you were getting at the. I know that the moment you were getting to with vicks super cool response to what happens here with the m taking with a iron balls ben london taking over his song when he stands up and he just like everybody out and everyone just rushes out of the place not running just very fast walking because they know that something bad is about to happen. Actually the line is he says thank you all for and everyone knows that means. It's time to leave. And they all do everybody out except for brass balled. Ben london onstage. Richard dreyfuss out there. As as vic and then jeff goldblum as nick and the whole thing of pack. Your bags walk home. Pack your bags and leave. And he gives them the opportunity and he doesn't take it shoots him in the leg hop home giving them as many chances. It's like money. It's like the monty python bit with the soldier yeah now stand aside worthy adversaries. Scratch scratch off. Well what's that then were. Su tanya tansy. Ben does not know win. Shut the fuck up and does it goes on for ever like it just goes on. It's one of those things where it's like the joke like it goes on too long. And you're like okay. Well this is bad and then it goes. It goes on even longer and then you're like oh this is interesting and then it goes on even longer. Oh this is genius. I love this. They don't care. This guy is just going to milk this moment. And just you gotta you gotta be along for the ride crisis. Like i said he could flip out. But he's the calm center of the universe at that point and he never lose his shit even when he's about to Shoot himself right in the head. He's just no well. He's doing sinatra. That's the so larry. Bishop said that that character is supposed to be sinatra. And i watched at this last watch and his haircut. Drivers haircut is such a sinatra haircut and then when you see him just sort of standing very cool and he's doing sinatra which is not what you expect from dreyfuss which is kind of what i was getting into about like being such a wide so great as a jewish gangster film because you just very. It's very rare. When there's the jewish gangster maybe it's like a meyer lansky kind of thing it's all about the money and you just never get to see the cool sexy gunfighter boss characters being played by jewish actors. That's always usually italians italian. It's everyone could be a lot of different things but these guys playing these roles. And that's something i didn't even realize i'm jewish and something. I didn't realize watching the film until really thinking about doing a podcast about that. This was something that was unique and probably one of the things that spoke to me so much about it again. Like seeing jeff goal. Jeff goldblum usually plays a kind of a stereotype. He kind of jewish character and in this. He's playing. i guess he's kind of playing dean. Martin. dreyfuss is kind of playing sinatra. And i'm so glad. Larry bishop made this movie and gave these two actors that to have in this pantheon of all this other great stuff. They've done because. I love all their other work. But yeah dreyfuss getting to play. Get both of them. Getting to play cool is just as fun for me as getting to watch. Gabriel byrne play goofy. Give him some more to give this guy some dialogue to chew. He's so good with it. Does he said alan bark and the other of the other actors. That really are standouts. Angie everhart. yeah but everybody has their moment in this movie. Which is great. It's not just a cameo just for the sake of cameo like every death saying that everybody has is a great death scene. It's not just or you get shot and you fall down like from the very beginning and like we. We're gonna spoil this movie because it's a movie full of everyone done like the movie starts as michael j. Paul lowered getting shot. That's how you start your movie which is very interesting. And then you keep keeps going and like a henry. Silva's demise is brilliant and does his whole character sleepy. Joe but then he has this crazy laugh. You know before his final moments and like burt reynolds and like everybody in i. It's it's such a great and even like the non death scene but like rob reiner's in the movie for like a minute but he's great. Just give you his philosophy of life. Everyone has to give you their philosophy of life in this movie and it doesn't feel like stunt casting. it really feels like neither layer bishops longtime hollywood friends and just people he respects. I like billy idol. Guess people do they want to put in smoothie and it's you can never predict who's going to show up at his. It's not like other movies. Where like i think. I kind of know where these cam like what these kind of cameras would be like. Oh it's all like horror directors or whatever but this one had really keeps coming out of left field. Where like billy dragos in his movie. How weird it just. it's a. It's a quite the cornucopia of character actors and and they all did it because he got christopher. That's the crazy thing. That was the reason. I love that opening where were talking about. Michael j. polity got hammett the desk. You've got an unseen figure at the desk. You've got gabriel bird on the other side and then sleeping on the floor is the gel. The henry silva character eventually gets up and search the join 'em and then after powered is dead. I think that's when we see the third person at the desk is and that's super cool jeff goldblum. That's jeff goldblum sitting right there and it's like what a way to not introduce your character until that moment and i'd love to. I'm so glad Undress you ask the question. Because i meant to ask larry about the picture. That's in the room. Which is that. I think it's a bull lake tearing apart something and that it's based upon the picasso picture of the cabbie me the bird i course looking at the picture was just like well. That looks like picasso. But i know that it's not so i was just trying to figure out who did it so that it's not you know i. I thought that it was a An existing piece of art. So i was glad that you kind of got to the bottom of that and that they actually made it for the film. It's a really troubling image. For just a painting that's like the first thing that we see after this wonderful sort of alternate universe opening and it really does set this very. How long did it take when you are watching us before you realized it was a comedy and might have been some of the word play and might have been. I might have started laughing. Just when i started to realize that there was a nickel mckenna avik but yeah i. It was probably something. That gabriel byrne's it's very the the tone it is very is constrained enough. And they're cool enough in their delivery that it just feels like a stylized gangster from their killing people. And so you're sort of scared for your heroes a little bit. You're like you you kill someone in the first. Been kill michael taylor at the beginning of the movie. You're wondering who's the next person this guy is gonna kill like it's one of the things. I was watching it last night. I was trying to remember what it was like watching it the first time and not knowing what's going on you know i remembered there was. I think it had to have been gabriel. Byrne that got me laughing. It had to have been the at least that by the time of his death. That's just too funny in. Been billy idol brian. You brought up. Billy idol that whole thing and i think what has only dialogue. Is you the entire time. It's a silly in. That's the first time. I think when you realize that this movie is a truly no rules movie like even though it started him saints another universe you. Can't it settle in quickly like oh. This is a gangster movie. Maybe it's the forties or the fifties and the billy idol shows up with a very nineties. Look like very nineties. Looking billy idol. Like okay so against this isn't just like a gangster movie world. This is like a different. This is something else and like how mclaughlin is not the normal sort of gangster ville. And he's kind of nerdy the way he looks in his movie. He looks like you would like a reject from the show friends. He kinda has like a friends. Look away spiking. His hair spiked his nineties. Way and it just this movie. Just kinda doesn't wanna peg itself as just being like a a mazda gangster films. It's just it's gonna throw a billy idol at you or gregory hines or dislike a bunch of just very strange because it could have very easily been a movie of just like automating. Amar's ratpac is the fifties at scorsese like we're gonna have all my dad's old friends there the end and that could have very easily been this movie but the fact that once billy idol shows up and then richard dreyfuss which is also very strange in a movie like this like this is a no rules movie. That does its own thing. And am i correct in that the only actual tied to the real world in this movie other than music is that everyone's eating tic tac and they referred to take taxes the only product placement in the whole movie. And i think there's a scene later we see Ellen barkin kind of taking a tic tac out of her purse in everyone's is having tick tax. I don't know if this because it rhymes with everyone's name and he thought that was funny. Tic tac in with the victim in a nick. But that's weird white take tax and they talk about it. Data cirrhosis in the tic tac is the fake medicine that yeah common lachlan the stake for high china and jain rights. Ben london just ma-. I love you like let me go with them. His him messing with people is the best. I love that. Yeah a Almost rodney dangerfield ask you know like when rodney dangerfield comes into the country club owner. This is the worst looking at. I ever saw this. Poll the soup. Oh it looks good on you. Though i guess. Because of gabriel byrne being tied to militia crossing in my mind it does fit him being this kinks God yeah this. One hundred eighty degrees from that cool collected gangster that. He's playing miller's crossing wild man and yeah i wish they would just let him off the leash a lot more because he just impresses the hell out of me. Everybody in this movie impresses the hallam. Even times. Where i'm just like. Why is burt reynolds here again. I'm not really following. Why he's here. But i sure i'm glad to see him. It was such a nice thing. I want to say that this was pre booking nights. So this was before he had his big resurgence. What does he do. He's doing some sort of like sort of a brando thing like he with his fate. He's just he's doing. He's doing some wonderful mugging in this. He is having a lot of fun getting to just stay. Yes fake teeth. And this sort of like i've seen beretta's in a lot of things i've seen him be funny and goofy. I've never seen him do what he's doing in this movie. It's like yeah. I love burt reynolds. So another flavor of that should be seen by people that is just a. It's a it's a crazy thing for me about that. Like i i. I know i sound a little bit. Have been carrying this on my back for two and a half decades. So i wanna i i feel like i'm selling i keep trying to sell