20 Episode results for "Albuquerque Journal"

MISSING: Tara Calico

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MISSING: Tara Calico

"High Crimes Junkies I'm your host Ashley Flowers at I'm Grit and today I wanna tell you about a mystery in the Mesa's when a bright young college student rides away from home and vanishes into thin air investigators can only find the barest hint of what could have happened to her and that question still remains to this very day over thirty years later, this is the story of Tara Calico. Real Quick Crime Junkies. Before we jump into the episode, I wanted to make sure you realize that it's that time again just in case you're on the fan club not falling on social the Crime Junkie Merch store is open it's already been open to the fan club. So stock is Super Limited and it's going to be closing at the end of this week. So don't Miss your window everything is brand new. We have lunch boxes, we have scrunchy crunchies we have sweatshirts, sweatpants, t shirts so much great stuff. Make sure you get in there before the store closes or before we run out of stock, which happens every time but website is crime junkie podcast dot Com just click the MERCH TAB and make sure you snag yourself something before it's gone. All right now back to the story. On the morning of September. Twentieth. Nineteen eighty-eight a woman named Patty. Dole is at home with her daughter Tara in Bala New Mexico which is about a half hour south of Albuquerque Torres and nineteen year old sophomore in college at the University of New Mexico Valencia and she's living at home with her mom, her Stepdad John and her step sister Michelle in the Rio community suburb. Now, Taro's a really active girl she did track and cheerleading in high school, and now that she's in college, she still likes to stay busy playing tennis and she goes on these regular long long bike rides for exercise. So patties not surprised when Tara says that she's GonNa go on her daily bike ride that morning. Now, since his owned bike got a flat tire couple of days ago, she asked her mom if she can take her hot pink huffy ten speed bike out instead and patties like sure no problem. So around nine thirty that morning tar is getting ready to head out and she tells patty that she's going to be backed by eleven thirty because she's got to meet her boyfriend she has tennis game later and she has some college classes. Now she says, I'm not backed by noon please come get me and this may sound a little weird to say but Tara is really good at keeping a schedule and since she's already got plans that afternoon I mean she just wants to make sure that. She doesn't lose track of time like she wants to be punctual. So Tara says goodbye to her mom turns on her Walkman and sets off on her usual route along New Mexico state road forty seven. Now, Patty didn't love that Tara took this route so much because it's kind of isolated once you get outside of the neighborhood plus one time when Patty went biking with. Tara one morning along this same exact road she swears that they were being followed by a driver which freaked her out enough that she didn't WanNa go on a ride again now patty obviously like brought this up to Tara and she told her listen you at least need to be carrying Mace I. don't even really want you on this route at all but tars like no. MOM, you're paying ridiculous like we live in a safe place. This is a comfortable area. I'm nineteen, not nine and really isn't a huge amount that Patti can do about that. You know she says, you know I've I've always my concerns don't love it but Tara is an adult. Yeah. So that morning eleven thirty am comes and goes without any sign of Tara now obviously. This is back in the days before cellphones or even pagers. So it's not like they can just call or page like, Hey, are you on your way home? So Patty has to wait and really eleven thirty, one eleven thirty, five even eleven forty passes and pat he's not that worried yet after all a wouldn't be super odd for a bike ride to run a little bit. But taurus still doesn't come home by noon Patty decides to go out and look for her just like Tara had told her to do. Patty knew right where to look because like I said, Tara Bikes same route basically every day it's a seventeen mile stretch along state road forty seven heading southeast out to the railroad tracks away from Rio communities and then seventeen miles back. She drives up and down the road hoping to catch a glimpse of the familiar pink bike. But mile after mile after mile she sees nothing no sign of her daughter no sign of the bike. Is there any sort of like gas station or rest stop that she might have stopped at break? nope. There's nothing. So by now patties definitely starting to get worried because. We had super punctual person like she's always on time. She always keeps her schedule pretty tight but at the same time, Patty is still trying to stay logical and not immediately jump to the absolute worst conclusions. Now, the bike could've gotten a flat tires and things could have happened these things. Go wrong and she's probably going to see tar they're going to laugh about it later. But when Patty gets back home, her hopes are dashed when her worst fear start coming true. Because by the time she gets home having driven those seventeen miles there and back Tara still isn't there together with her husband John Who's Tar Stepdad they call the police to report her missing according to Ed Pierces reporting in the Albuquerque Journal law enforcement takes this case seriously right away and the search efforts get under way that Tuesday. They take Paddy Johns word that this is super out of character for Tara and beyond that all of tars friends. Say. The same thing this isn't Laker. She's so dependable. She would never just ride off and again she had plans why make your mom come look for you if you weren't planning on coming back the Valencia County sheriff's call in help from departments all across New Mexico we're talking the state police, the Bernalillo County sheriff's from Albuquerque they have bloodhound teams come in and they have a state search and rescue team all come to join in the efforts out searching on foot and horseback they even bring in some ATV's like this is a hard core search operation pretty much right off the bat and it pays off because that very. First Day Tara went missing searchers find some vital clues that make her family's hearts sink there right along state road forty, seven about four miles away from. Rio. Communities are bicycle tracks like the kind that would match the one she was writing. So without a bike to actually compare them to, it's a little hard to do a full analysis right away and say that one hundred percent this is hers, but it's definitely what they're thinking but the tracks didn't actually lead them to Tara or MOMS bike investigation discovery reported that the tracks look kind of spun out there must have been or could have been a struggle in that area. and. They also report that very close to the bike tire marks. They also find tire marks from a car along with a piece of broken tape player. Now, this tape player matched the same distinctive yellow, Walkman that Tara had and would always take with her, and if there was any doubt that it could be hers, they also found the cassette that had been in the walkman nearby. It was from the Band Boston and Patty and John are gutted because they know Tara loved to listen to music while she was out writing all of this had to belong to her and finding these things felt like a very bad sign. I mean. All of this looks like something not great. Happen was fighting this evidence able to help them narrow down their searches or find witnesses or anything. Oh yeah I mean because again, we started with the seventeen mile stretch of road. So we have a much more condensed area and police do find a handful of witnesses who say they saw a woman matching tars description the morning that she went missing there was a pair of ranch hands out working that morning and they tell law enforcement that they saw her heading north at about eleven thirty which fits right in with the timeframe of her being on her way home just like she. Promised now, this is helpful because again it narrows down our timeframe a little bit, but it doesn't get us a lot closer to Tara. So while police Valencia County, sheriff's are still out searching tars family isn't just sitting back and waiting patty and Michelle are all working tirelessly to recruit volunteers to help look for any sign of what might have happened Atara in order to bring her back home. The weather on Wednesday was really bad I mean bad enough that an air search gets grounded and much to Patty's dismay this is a really gross I mean Wendy rocket any and it's perfect to wash away all of evidence that they're probably. So desperate to find. But even with the weather setbacks, the Dole's don't give up and by Friday they've gotten over two hundred people to join in with a search for Tara according to the Albuquerque Journal ground forces are focusing on the east side of state road forty seven where it's more isolated, and while they're out searching other members of law enforcement are searching for more witnesses who might be able to shed some light on what happened that day and they get a break several more witnesses come forward and tell police that not only did they see Torah but they saw her being followed by an older model pickup truck with. A Shell Camper. This same witnesses say that Tara had her headphones on and she didn't seem to be aware that she might have been being followed, and if she wasn't aware, then how could she try to protect herself from whoever was behind the wheel of this truck now, even though these leads seem promising at bursts, none of these clues lead to anything solid not the Walkman, not the witness descriptions of the truck nothing and so all the Dole's can do is wait and keep grasping onto hope the months go by and like too many missing Person Cases Torres disappearance cools off and with no new leads the case eventually goes Colt. And then in the summer of nineteen eighty, nine Torres Stepdad gets a call that turns the investigation red. Hot. Fees episode was made possible with Stitch fix personally I kind of hate clothes shopping. You think you're a medium so you get the medium of the rack and it is wildly wrong sometimes big sometimes way too small and with. 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There is no subscription required and you can schedule at any time get started today at stitch fix dot com slash crime donkey and Hewlett twenty five percent off when you keep everything in your fix that's stitch fix dot com slash crime junkie for twenty five percent off when you keep everything in your fix stitch fix dot com slash crime junkie. July of Nineteen eighty-nine Taurus Stepdad John gets a phone call from one of his friends even over the phone he can hear how his friend is like super amped up. Super anxious. He's talking fast barely stopping to breathe and he saying something about watching the show a current affair and seeing a photo of Tara and instantly John's on high alert like now his heart is racing and he keeps asking what photo of Tara are you talking about like where the heck is this even coming from and the story his friend tells him is crazy and I have to tell you. So there's this woman at A. Convenience store all the way in Port Saint Joe in North Florida. This is on June Twelfth Nineteen eighty-nine. Now, she's in the parking lot of this convenience store and she sees a white van with a guy sitting in the driver's seat. It's just him nobody in the passenger side and this isn't a big deal at the time. But then when she comes back out of the store, the van is gone and there in its place is a polaroid picture lying on the ground she picked it up took one look at it and was so shocked that she knew she had to report it to police right away. And here but I'm GonNa send you this picture as a refresher is probably one of the most infamous pictures in the true crime communities. I'm sure you've seen it. I know we've actually talked about it in another case, but it might be good for you and for the audience to just get a little refresher. Oh. My God I definitely remember seeing this picture at some point in time it's a picture and you can't really tell where it's set but there are two people looks like a teenage girl and maybe a younger boy maybe like elementary school age. Yeah. The allegations a ten. And it appears that they're bound tape over their mouths. And they're both laying down on like a couple of blankets and pillows, and there's actually a book next to the girl right? I can't quite make out anything else and you can't see their feet in the picture right and you you like you know we're making the assumption that they're bound. But like their hands are behind their back, they're both by kind of laying on hands and their feet are out of the image. But like you said, they have duct tape on and I mean just like the looks on their faces. Are I think what? He has a very jarring photo. Yeah. It's chilling and actually this picture came up like I mentioned another case back when we were researching the Zachary Bernhardt case for one of our earlier episodes because for a moment police wondered if the boy in the picture was him now, obviously, that didn't end up like coming to any kind of conclusion but now this. Picture is back because you know it's been found in Florida and police in Florida, got to work like right away soon as this woman called them turned in this picture they're trying to identify the people in the Polaroid and the woman who finds the picture tells please everything she knows according to the thought catalog she described the driver as this guy in his thirties with a mustache. I, it's vague, but it's all they have an armed with this description of the guy and the van the police actually set up roadblocks right away for this person. But despite their best efforts, they can't find anything and they're you know working working days turn into weeks or trying to identify these people it's going anywhere. So when six weeks go by and the Florida police? Still. Don't have anything to go on. They turn to the public for help to see if anyone might recognize who's in this picture, which is how it got on a current affair where John's friend Saulat. So back in New Mexico when John Hears this story from his friend about seeing the picture on a in a fair about how this lady found it, he's instantly on high. Alert and according to people magazine. He calls the New Mexico police immediately and he and Pars Family Rush Down to Florida as soon as they can in their joined by the FBI who takes over as lead in the investigation and their first priority is to get that photo back to their lab for analysis, as you can imagine, just from looking at this picture this picture. At the time gets a ton of media attention all over the country because everybody wants to know who are these kids wear are these kids and are they even still alive because clearly they don't seem okay in this photo now, the tip start flooding in nobody can connect the boy and the girl with solid names until John. Dole calls the police in Florida and says, listen. Be Are Tara and I have a great like comparison. I. Want you to look at this picture of Tara and then look back at that Polaroid Oh my God. Yeah. I can totally see even of the colic in her bangs, which is kind of distinctive I think like. I don't disagree that. This could be hurt and Harris parents are even more confident and it's terrible because it's like there is hope and their darkest fears colliding like if that is Tara then it's wonderful she's alive or at least she was as of June but. Then, you have to wonder what's being done to her, and where is she now right now, patty is totally convinced that the girl in the polaroid is her daughter. She says, it is totally Tara without makeup and when she hasn't gotten a perm in a while and specifically she points to the scar on the girl's leg and she says that it matches a scar Tara has but even beyond the physical resemblance, Torres family says that there's something else in the photo that makes them even more certain of the woman's identity and it's That book that you mentioned, but you said that you couldn't tell but when the FBI you know blew it up and they even recognize just kind of the logo of the book because the book is called my secret Adriana by V. C.. Andrews and get this. The family is so familiar with what the book looks like and they can recognize it right away because according to Patty. That's Torres favorite book, and that's not only clue that the book has because according to the Albuquerque Tribune, there's a phone number scratched into the book's spine. The. Problem though is that law enforcement can't see all the numbers. Now, police have never said how many numbers they can see when I look at it I can hardly see anything. So I mean, obviously, they enhanced the image significantly and They didn't even say like, okay is this a number from Florida is a number from all over the country is at the first couple numbers the last couple numbers like we have zero details about this, all that they've ever said is that they were able to get over three hundred possible number combinations with what was visible and that only fifty seven of those were actual valid phone numbers which on the surface sounds like you know this may be like a great lead narrowing it down a little bit except none of. These numbers Pan out to viable leads and it's just another dead end. Okay. But what about the boy like if we are to believe that this is Tara do we have any idea who the little boy is? So initially yes they think that they do know who this boy is and this is where the photo starts to get even more mysterious because another set of grieving New Mexico parents Michael and Marty Henley they see the picture and they're like, oh my gosh this looks exactly like are missing son Michael Junior. According to an article in the Santa Fe New Mexican Michael was nine years old in April of nineteen eighty eight when he went missing from Oso Ridge up in Zuni mountains, which is in northwestern New Mexico and he went missing while he was up there with his dad on a camping trip to hunt Turkeys. Now, this area is about a three hour drive from where Tara went missing pretty much a straight shot about one, hundred, thirty, maybe one hundred and forty miles west depending on which route you take. Now just like with Tara, there was this massive search operation that didn't turn up any leads and Michael's case went cold until this fateful photograph turns. Up, and links these two families who never met who never had any other connections before together now something I think that is interesting about this though is that the Henley's and the Dole's actually react a little differently because we're patty is convinced and I mean one hundred percent dead certain that the girl in the photo is her Tara even though the F. b. i. analysis isn't totally done yet. The Henley's are a little more cautious and I don't know if it's like an emotional protection thing or what but they're just a little more reserved. Yes it looks a lot like their son but they are not willing to say it's one hundred percent him. Okay. So. I know that they disappeared within a couple months of each other. But is there any way to narrow down or like confirm that it's possible for these two have been together at the same time? So there's one way that they can do this and they actually want to research a little bit more into the polaroid. It's self to see you know you and I grew up with polarized to me. They've always been around but around this time right, they were fairly new and they knew that they could probably track even when that polaroid film was like made and distributed. So law enforcement reaches out to the Polaroid people to get this information and they find out that this specific type of film in the picture only became available in May of. Nineteen eighty nine. So the photo had been taken after that. So it's totally possible that these two in the could be Tara and Michael but even with that I mean again, it's just kind of confirming okay. Yes possibly. But the Henley's in the Dole's all they can do is wait because they have to wait for the expert analysis to come back from the FBI to give them the like definitive answers that they're looking for. But the problem is when the results do start coming back in the analysis isn't actually definitive. Now I know the photo gets taken to the Los Alamos National Laboratory, which is this like super renowned research facility in New Mexico, but actually seen different reports. About what they come up with. So according to the Albuquerque Tribune back in two, thousand, three, John and Patti say that the national lab told them that based on the ears and the hairline the girl is definitely Tara but in two thousand, eight, the Albuquerque Journal reported that the lab actually said no, it's not her. So I don't know who's version to believe or maybe like with additional time and testing at told them something different all those years later either way though there's no like pure consensus not from the National Laboratory or the FBI in August of Nineteen eighty-nine the FBI says while they don't think it's Tara they're not able to like one hundred percent conclude that way. Or the other that tars the girl in the picture and Patty can't accept that she won't accept that at some point and I wasn't able to clarify exactly when. But sometime during this agonizing summer of searching for answers, she actually gets Scotland. Yard. Over in the United Kingdom involved and they do another analysis of the picture adding to the confusion because Scotland Yard says Yup. It's definitely Torah and all of this back and forth is beyond heartbreaking but Patty and John Never give up even after the initial burst of publicity dies down and the perspective leads go nowhere because to patty she believes that her baby girl is alive and she will stop at nothing to bring her home. Tragically though for Michael Henley's parents they do bring their son home not alive but to rest his body was actually found in June of nineteen ninety up in the mountains about seven miles from where he actually disappeared and according to people magazine Michael died from exposure wait so he can't be going the picture. No, but. That doesn't change a whole lot because if it's not Michael I mean, that's still leaves the massive question of who it is well and I mean, you know me devil's advocate. We also have to consider the possibility that this photo. Is being fakes like, of course, it's a real picture but I'm remembering now reading into this a little bit when we did Zachary's case and didn't people magazine kind of pose the question like are those people in the photo really in distress? What do you mean? I mean like you said you can't really see if either of them have been tied up like you can't their hands, you can't their feet. They're kind of pose that way. There's no visible rope or handcuffs or. Anything and they aren't as like tensed up as you would expect I guess. Yeah. Makes Sense. I'm remembering article specifically mentioning how both boy and the girl don't have like redness around their mouths that they would have been there for a long time like irritating their skin. Plus people posing picture is nowhere near the end of the list of the weird things never learned so. I. Guess I don't know. Yeah, I mean it's not something that I put a lot of thought into or considered but I guess it's totally possible considering we still I mean to this day don't have one hundred percent confirmation of WHO's in that picture, but regardless faked or not. The image stays with the Dole's and haunted by this photo and their desperation for answers, Patti and John Stay I mean as involved as they can with the investigation and nineteen ninety-one, they actually go through the training to become auxiliary deputies with Valencia County Sheriff's department and I didn't know this is like a thing you could do. Sign me up. But I couldn't find Valencia county's requirements but I did get the current ones for a nearby county and basically you just have to pass a background check. You have to put in a certain number of hours go through this like Reserve Academy get law enforcement certification I mean it's not just like sign up I'm deputy a pretty intense process but at the end of all of this John and Patti can carry weapons they can talk to law enforcement agencies on behalf of the Valencia County Sheriff's department. So it basically gives them more access than the average citizen but still less than a police officer. Now with this new access patty gets pretty close to the old Valencia County Sheriff a man named Lawrence Romero because Lawrence actually. Lost a child over the course of the investigation he lost his son Lawrence Junior who died from suicide in nineteen ninety one. So they kind of bond over the great loss that they've each experienced and she becomes so close to the police like to point that tars brother Chris told people magazine in two thousand, eighteen that they actually sent her all kinds of materials. So she can help them with the investigation and I'm talking like super gruesome pictures of dismembered bodies to see if like by some off chance, it could be Tara and even though it kills her like deep down inside to look at these pictures, she's not able to stop. And, these are pictures that I mean it's hard enough for these seasoned officers to look at let alone grieving mother. In, the emotional state that she's in, but no matter what patty keeps looking agonizing over every single photo, they send hoping that it's not Tara. In two thousand, three, Patti and John left new. Mexico for a fresh start in Florida even thousands of miles away in the new state. The stress of tars disappearance weirs them down grinding away patties health and mental functions until she finally passes away in two thousand six, still waiting for tar to come home and still waiting for answers about what happened to her daughter. But it would have been two more years before any kind of answers would come in two, thousand, eight, just two years after PAT's death the new Valencia County sheriff goes on record with a shocking announcement. Episode was made possible in part with better help. Is there something interfering with your happiness or maybe something is preventing you from achieving your goals most days for me the main thing preventing me from achieving Michael's is my daughter's request for a third consecutive viewing of my ups. But let me tell you there are bigger scarier things interfere with my happiness out here in the world. Which is why I am so thankful to have better help. It's not a crisis line and it's not self help. It is professional counseling done securely online available for clients World Wide, plus they have a wide range of expertise that may not be available locally in many areas you can log into your account to send a message to your counselor at any time and you'll get. A timely and thoughtful response plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions ever have to sit in uncomfortable waiting room again, which is great. Especially right now, better health wants to help you start living a happier life today is committed to facilitating great therapeutic patches. So they make it easy and free to change counselors. If needed visit better help dot com slash crime junkie. That's. Better H. E. L. P., and join over one million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional in. So many people have been using better help that they are currently recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states, and there is a offer just for junkie listeners get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash crime junkie. In an interview with Valencia County News Bulletin that's published twenty years to be exact day after Tara Calico went missing Valencia County. Sheriff Rene Rivera says, he knows exactly what happened to Tara and he knows exactly who's responsible but that's not all in the same interview. Renee also says that these two suspects who were teenagers back in Nineteen eighty-eight eight when Tara vanished had help he says that when they got rid of her body, they didn't work alone and that he believes Tara Calico never. Left New Mexico alive not even Valencia, county now as part of his theory, he clarifies that he doesn't think Taurus in that polaroid even though it's never been linked to anyone else's case. Now he's been on the case for a long time since ninety six. so He's used to all kinds of wild goose chases from tipsters and psychics and everyone in between, and he says he's followed tons of leads and dug up multiple places where tar was rumored to be buried only to have it all. come up empty but now he's ready to lay out what he believes happened to Tara. Okay. So what happens so according to Rene, these two teenagers were driving along in an old pickup just like how the witnesses described and when they saw Tara riding her bike down state road forty-seven, they decided to follow her. He says that these guys actually knew Tara and we're kind of maybe cat calling her harassing her just kind of being jerks essentially. But then things took a really bad turn because. They actually hit Taurus bike with the truck. Now Rene does say that he thinks it was an accident like they weren't trying to run her over anything but accident or not Tara falls off her bike and from there these two men panic and they picked Tara up with her and her bike in the truck they abduct her dump her bike somewhere along the way and then Rene says that he thinks maybe she could have been hurt from the fault maybe she was threatening to call police s somehow things spiraled her abductors panicked because they were afraid of going to jail. Okay. But assuming he's right. It doesn't really speak to what happened to her after they took her we'll according to Rene in the same interview. He says that when the boys got rid of tar his body again members, they didn't do it alone and and you know I don't think he has a theory of exactly what transpired exactly maybe how she was murdered, but he thinks that these guys had help from at least two other people. But the he thinks he knows who they are. He won't name them formerly after this interview goes to press tar surviving family waits with like this horrible anticipation desperate to see these two mystery guys arrested. So they can finally learn what really happened to fill in all of those pieces get the closure that they've waited for for twenty long years. But here's the thing even though he says, he's got a solid case already put together against these two unnamed suspects Rene won't pull the trigger an arrest them wait what yet he says that he won't do it without some really rock hard evidence like Tara's body or her bike or even a piece of clothing. Now Torres family is beyond frustrated by this because. Why go public with such a bombshell if all you're GonNa do is just let it fizzle and John Doe in particular is mad and in his mind, the sheriff never have gone public if the department wasn't going to make a move and I totally get his anger I mean he lost a child, he watched his wife live with her grief like an open wound. He had to listen to every out their theory I mean for years and years and years. and. So now after losing Tara then Patty, I can only imagine that Rene as refusal to arrest his suspects had to feel like a slap in the face to John and his daughter Michelle who at this point Michelle's kind of taking over the investigation after Patty passed away. Okay. But to give rene the benefit without I can see that maybe public to try and put pressure on you know in the hope that these guys would turn themselves in and confess. Maybe, lead him to Tara's or remains or. Anything maybe, but I mean, it just doesn't happen that way nothing comes of this and Taurus family is left yet again to just watch and wait with no arrests. No new information tars disappearance cools off yet again. The investigation does continue go and more anniversaries past including the twentieth anniversary of the infamous polaroid from nineteen, Eighty nine and on this twentieth anniversary something interesting happens Jordan would Nagel reported for thought catalog that back across the country in Port Saint Joe, Florida the Chief of police himself. A man named David Barnes gets a pair of images in the mail of a boy with marker drawn over his mouth like duct tape to imitate the boy from the original polaroid. Now, Loft Investigations reported that these photos are postmarked for June tenth two, thousand, nine, two days before the anniversary of when this photo was found. Now at first David things as some kind of GAC somebody trying to be funny or more like maybe flip off the police but the local newspaper gets the same photo postmarked from Albuquerque the same day that David got his and when they received it, they turned bears over to police just to be. Safe, and the thing is I mean just like the girl has never been one hundred percent positively idead after twenty years neither has the boy. So law enforcement does have to take it seriously at least for a little while even though they're still pretty shorts s right because what it actually is connected exactly. But like we've seen so many times before in this case, these strange photographs calmed absolutely nothing because there's just no way for police to. Identify the boy in to track down where these came from other than where they're postmarked and honestly these photos in relation to Tara. Feels like kind of a stretch to me like someone with time on their hands someone who is kind of evil and and just wants to mess with police and bring up this horrible time in a family's life. As time continues to pass after two, thousand, nine, Torres step sister Michelle gets more and more into the investigation. Again, kind of taking the mantle from her Dad John who took it from Patty and she does everything she can to keep a light shining on tars case in hopes that her sister will one day. Get Justice. And then. Just when it seems like the answers might never come. The case gets brand new life. This episode was made possible by Ernest now's the time to get your student loan payments under control. You could be saving money by refinancing your student loans with earn. Even if you've refinanced before with today's low rate environment, most people could save by refinancing. Again, checking your new rate is fast and easy to start. You just complete a few questions online. It takes only less than two minutes and you'll get a personalized rate estimate without affecting your credit score plus there's no origination fee or any other fees, and now you can get a one hundred dollar cash bonus when you refinance a student loan with. Dot Com slash crime junkie. Once again, that's a one hundred dollars cash bonus in your pocket when you refi your student loan at Ernest Dot com slash crime junkie not available in all states visit. Ernest. Dot Com slash crime junkie for more details, terms and conditions apply. Ernest student loan refinance loans are made by Ernest Operations LLC nmls Number One, two, zero, four, nine, one, seven, California financing, license, number, six, zero, five, four, seven, eight, eight. Three Oh three second street suite four Oh one North San Francisco California nine four one zero seven visit Ernest Dot com slash licenses for a full list of licensed states. Today's episode is brought to you by simplisafe. Here's the thing about home security companies most trap you in with high prices trae. And create a lousy customer support. 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The fact that I hadn't heard our doors enter go off helped me know that she was safe and came to the edge off of how scared I was Oh, and you guys all of this coverage. I'm talking about starts just fifteen dollars a month with no contract, no hidden fees, no fine print and no pushy sales people signed me up and everyone I know please try simplisafe today at simplisafe dot com slash crime junkie you get free shipping and a sixty day free trial there's really nothing to lose that's simplisafe dot com slash crime junkie. In October of two, thousand, thirteen, twenty, five years after Tara Calico vanished law enforcement announces the reopening her case which had fizzled out after Rene announcement in two thousand eight didn't lead to any arrests. Nicole Perez reported in the Albuquerque Journal that a task force made up a both federal and local officials is being assembled to try and find answers once and for all, and this is a serious crew and we're talking agents from homeland. Security Valencia sheriff's Albuquerque Police Molds, other sheriffs, agencies, state police like they are not messing around here yet that's a pretty intense group but I guess my question is what made them reopen the case then form this super intense task force. Was it. Just that the case had been quiet for so long or was there something new? You know I'm not a hundred percent. Sure of the Albuquerque Journal article says that they were interested in solving just generally cold cases and looking at old evidence with modern technology and they had been talking about opening tars case for about a year before this actually happened but I found something else that I half to think is related. So later that same October. After, the case is reopened members of this task force conduct an interview with a former Belinda county sheriff's deputy named Frank McCulloch and he tells them about a deathbed statement that he took while he was with the sheriff's department according to the police report about this interview. Frank. Tells the task force that a man named Henry Brown wanted to confess some things before he died and that he knew exactly what happened to Tara in who killed her? As Boring tells the Task Force Henry told him that back in eighty eight, he used to live down the street from a trailer where this other guy lived and he said that this other guy liked to have his buddies over to get high and party in the space meant that he built and Henry would go over to actually party with them. And you know all sounds kind of innocent enough. Right. But the name of the guy who lived in the trailer was Lawrence. Romero junior wait isn't that the old sheriff's son the one who died Yup as frank tells the Task Force, Henry said that he was down in the basement one night right around the time Tara disappeared and he saw what he called a grave wrapped in blue tarp basically. The right size to be a human body. Then there are these three guys warrants and his Buddies Leroy and David and this other unnamed man with red hair and they kind of start talking about how they knew Tara, because she used to date a friend of theirs and how they knew that she took the same bike ride every day how they'd seen her on state road forty, seven on her. Usual route and they were out driving this old pickup truck and knocked her off her bike. But according to Henry they don't stop there. He tells frank that Lawrence. Leroy the redhead and David Kidnap Tara took her out to some gravel pits nearby and sexually assaulted her and she thought even though she'd just been brutalized Lawrence told Henry that she threatened to go to the police. So Lawrence got a Knife and stabbed her then he says that they put her body in the basement and later took it out to the Red Heads House, dumping it in a nearby pond apparently lawrence like to Brag that since his dad was the sheriff, he could pretty much get away with committing crimes and as for the pink bike, the group said that they took it to a junkyard where would never be found. Now by the time, the task force here's all of this. Again, Lawrence Romero junior has been dead for over twenty years. Henry's even dead and frank has resigned from the department there really isn't a way to prove or disprove any of this, but I think right back to that report that we talked about from two thousand eight and I see a lot of parallels you know when Rene comes out and he's like I've solved it I mean you got the teenage boys you've got an old pickup truck that accidentally runs into it's not necessarily planned and Tara threatening to Tau Law enforcement, and even this idea of a possible cover up and that. Would even explain why there was never an arrest i. feel like we see this a lot of times. It's not always about justice it can just be about politics. I feel like we've seen that too many times but the reality of it is that we don't have actual evidence of this I mean, we don't have evidence of anything. We don't even know what law enforcement did with this information. The most recent update I could find comes from Joe Lean Gutierrez Krueger who reported in the Albuquerque Journal this two, thousand, eighteen that it was unclear. What steps law enforcement took after this and whether they searched that pond or the house or the trucks like. We have no idea and of course, there's still the photograph even if that's not actually Tara Calico bound and gagged in the back of the van. Who is that woman and WHO's the boy next to her their stories deserve to be told and their families are surely missing them. I. Mean. It's been years and years and those families deserve answers or I mean if it really is fake like you posed, we need someone to come forward and confirmed that. So we can remove this from the investigation and from the narrative if it really has nothing to do with the case over thirty years later, the mysteries remain as puzzling as ever tar calicoes fate is still unknown and Michelle won't stop until she gets the truth she's actually teamed up. With a former classmate of Tara's named Melinda who has an investigative podcast dedicated to solving Taurus case in two thousand and Nineteen Melinda did say that she's gotten some new information that she's turned over to law enforcement though we don't know exactly what that is or if it has the potential to solve this back in October of two, thousand, nineteen FBI posted. They are offering a twenty thousand dollar reward for information about this case and they ask anyone with information to please contact them at tips, dot FBI dot gove or by calling them at five, zero, five, eight, nine, one, three, zero, zero. Again. If you have any information about tars case, please contact the FBI act tips, dot FBI DOT GOV or by calling them at five Oh, five, eight, eight, nine, thirteen, hundred, and as usual. You can find all the pictures from the story and our source material on our website Crime Junkie podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at Cranky podcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but hang around for a prophet of the month story. Crime Junkie is an audio chuck production. So what do you think Chuck D approve? Okay Ashley everyone got really upset with me and my rating scale. Last month and said that I considered a six point five to seven was actually closer to Tatton but. It was at least like a hard nine. Okay. That's for sure. But here's the deal you chose this story and I don't even know what kind of rating scale we're getting into. Yeah. To me unless like we are talking about puppies who grew up to be half happy healthy dogs who have a litter of puppies like a bike everything is is a hard eight hard nine to be and this one is no exception. So I'm not going to fool around with our listeners, grab your clean axe because I'm hoping that I can get through it if not Brit. I might have to send the story over to you but I'm going to try because I think it's a very sweet sweet story and it came to me from one of our listeners named Anthony. So I'm I'm honestly just going to read you the exact message that he sent me okay. My name is Anthony and I'm actually more of a recent listener although I'm fairly new just started three weeks ago I have binge listened, and in only three episodes away from being caught up. I love those dogs, segments you do after episodes, telling stories of dogs and I have quite the tear jerker about our puppy dame sal. My family lives on a farm in a small upstate New York town called Appalachian, and we adopted a purebred great pyrenees puppy to live with and guard our. Love Oh. Yes. But when we brought him home with us in January of twenty twenty, he was only eight weeks old. So he had to stay in the house to grow and get comfortable for the first three weeks or so he had to be near another one of our house dogs or one of us humans as he had some pretty crazy separation anxiety we would put him in a Kennel at night in the house but every night for three weeks, he would yelp and wine until someone woke up to let him out and every night for three weeks straight. It was always me I like Anthony already I know I would totally be a sucker for the pub I did it with Chuck. Why he's probably so not well behaved as he way like he's definitely like nowhere near crate trained, but he's a very. Burger boy. I would take him out of the Kennel. Bathroom, to three a m. but when I would bring him back inside, he made it up bundling clear that he wanted nothing to do with going back inside the Kennel. So inevitably, I, would sit or lay down on the floor with him and he would curl up with me until he eventually fell asleep also I can kind of just imagine this like fluffy white pup just like. No I'm not going to. Be Yeah and so cute and they curl up together. Someone would wake up every morning at six am or so and come get the puppy from me. So I could get an hour or two of sleep in bed again, every night that was our thing he wanted to be comforted and as much as I wanted sleep I wanted him to feel safe. And comfortable more. Guy Spoiler it's coming. As he grew in size mostly from eating the dog food out of are much larger dogs bull, we started showing him around the farm and introducing him to the other animals and dogs he'd be staying with in the sheep pen. Sal was a happy klay full puppy even as he grew and found himself sleeping in the most random places in the house. When sow was big enough we integrated him out to our pan with the sheep and the other dogs and he couldn't have been happier. He would play with the little lambs and our other dogs, and if one of the older sheep ever tried to challenge sow, the other dogs would come to his rescue. I love animals like all of them honestly, this farm life sounds amazing. One day about three weeks ago I noticed sow was limping on his leg pretty bad I brought it to the attention of the other family members wondering if anyone had a definitive clue of what happened and no one seemed to know. So I went out and did my normal routine of looking him over made sure. He didn't cut his pawn anything felt for broken bones looked for any kind of blood on his snow white to signify any kind of injury to explain this sudden limping nothing. As a family we came to the conclusion that he might have pulled a muscle chasing one of the sheep in his playful banter and we all agreed to keep a close eye on him just three days. Later I noticed instead of getting better, he actually seemed to be getting worse and was applying even less pressure to his way. So we took him to the vet see if they could find something that we couldn't to explain this, and what they found was going to take the very breath out of a all. Upon, x Ray Scans a dark spot was discovered on his elbow, not a mass, but instead, the lack of bone should have been there. When we asked for further review, it was concluded that are poor eight month old happy with life puppy had a very rare form of bone cancer and it was incredibly aggressive. They informed us that it had already begun to spread and it deteriorated the bone in his elbow so bad that it affected the nerves too. So he couldn't control the paw at all the DOC said, he probably wouldn't make it through the following weekend we're going to be OK. Okay One Tech. As they told us this, he looked back at US and smile. His usual everything is awesome. Smile. So we brought him home knowing that time was short but wanting you to be happy for as long as he could. We. Let him stay with the sheeps dogs outside at night, and during the day we made sure someone was home to bring him in the house and give him the loving. He's so deserved just two days ago. On Labor? Day. I went to the sheep pen to spend some time with him. But he refused to get up even degree me. So I did what any dog living person with do. And I sat down in the dirt next where he was laying, they started putting him. Only this time. No smile. No I got this I. got it. As a pet him, I couldn't stop the tears from filling my eyes. As I knew what he was trying to tell me and for a moment the only thought in my mind was I'm not ready to say goodbye. As, quickly as that entered my mind though. He leaned his head onto my leg and fell asleep leak and smears I pet him. The way he did when he was so small. And that's I knew that he was telling me it was time. I stayed with him for what seemed like hours just calmly petting him and soaking up the feeling of him laying there with me. When I entered the House afterwards I knew we would have to call the vet. Sal had to be put down Tuesday evening to end his suffering. And then we had a funeral service if you will. And buried him right on the property that he grew to love and all of his home. Anthony goes on to say. This is a sad story and I know I. so apologize for that. But he said he's basically telling it to us because he wants to bring some kind of awareness to dogs with cancer. In some way he said, he feels like there's not enough that's heard about it and he knows that Cornell University College of Veterinary Science does a great job in treating the animals. That are especially in his area but he said it's not commonly talked about unless you're in the situation where your dog is the one with cancer and needs and needs that so. Actually all you told me about this ways can you look up cancer research in dogs? That's all I mean you had to have known what was coming only? No but like this was this was even more heart wrenching. Then I could have even imagined. We usually like to highlight a shelter at the end of these segments but. Like you said, the main reason Anthony Centers sells story was to talk about dogs with cancer and how to help other pet owners find the help and support they need after. That cancer diagnosis. And I was looking into this because you asked me and I found the Animal Cancer Foundation and their slogan is uniting pet and human research for a cure and they are passionate about helping fund research to find a cure for cancer not only pets but in people to these and the have this incredible program called the Canine Cancer. Genome Project that actually helps map the genomes of seven of the most common canine cancers and make sure that research is shared not only with veterinary researchers in oncology field but also with human cancer researchers to help grow the field and the possibilities of targeting. Therapies for US humans and free best friends and the Animal Cancer Foundation has a ton of ways plugged in with their organization whether it's donating volunteering or fundraising, and they have this program that I personally cannot wait to participate in. It's getting to be too cold here in Northern Indiana to do it now. But next summer my family and I are definitely going to be doing A. Sippy Cup cafe. What does that? It's eliminates stand that is human and up friendly. They email you a little kid with everything you need to help raise funds that will go to help fund pet and human cancer research and can't wait and personally I went to think anthony not only for submitting sal story but for helping me the more aware of this cause and making sure that. Sells life isn't. For. Nothing his legacy will live on for years to come. Yeah. So keep an eye out next summer for that crime junkie puppy lemonade on. You guys want to figure out how to get involved. We'll make sure all of that information is on our website and. As, you hone in your rating system. This is a fifty year. Yeah. See you're you're getting better at that.

David Kidnap Tara Patty Tara Calico John Sheriff Rene Rivera Albuquerque Journal New Mexico Michelle Florida Valencia County polaroid FBI people magazine Torres Tara Bikes Michael Albuquerque Patti Lawrence Romero
expunge

Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

expunge

"The word of the day four February ninth. Today's word is expunge inch spelled E. X. P. U. N. G. E. expunges verb that means to strike out obliterate or mark for deletion. It can also mean to if face completely to destroy or to eliminate from one's consciousness. Here's the word used in a sentence from the Albuquerque Journal by Colleen. Lean hired and Katie. Barnett's now court officials and prosecutors are bracing for a possible flood of people seeking to expunge their criminal records beginning January first under a new law passed by the legislature and signed by Governor Michelle Luhan Grisham in Medieval and Renaissance Manuscript. A series of DOTS was used to mark mistakes or to label material. That should be deleted from a text and those deletion dots can help you remember. Member of the history of the word expunge they were known as Posta Dementia. The Punta part of the name derives from the Latin verb whom gourmet which can be translated as to prick or sting and you can imagine that. A scribe may have felt stung. When they're mistakes were so punctuated in a manuscript pungo Hungary is also an ancestor of the word expunge as well as a parent of other dotted pointed or stinging times. Such as punctuate compunction poignant can't puncture and pungent with your word of the day I'm Peter Sokolski visit Webster Dot com today for definitions. wordplay play and trending word look ups.

Medieval and Renaissance Manus Michelle Luhan Grisham Albuquerque Journal Peter Sokolski Katie Colleen Barnett P. U. N. G.
Congress Does Something

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

18:00 min | 1 year ago

Congress Does Something

"The. Hello. Hey, jim. Hey, what's up? What's up of you? Oh, just sitting around the capital waiting for the end of the shutdown. Jim Newell covers Washington for sleep. He join me for a phone booth in the Senate press gallery to talk all things shutdown worth thirty three days that I stop counting. Yeah. Somewhere in the thirties. I know we are. I mean, the last five weeks how many bills have passed in congress trying to reopen the government in the house. They're moving this week on the tenth and eleventh tenth and eleventh. Yeah. The speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi, she's been specially busy yesterday. She wrote a note to the White House postponing the state of the union then our office drafted yet. Another budget proposal aimed at opening up. The government it offers more money for border security, but not a wall over in the Senate on the other hand in the Senate. They are well most of them currently aren't even here this week. It's been that they've been on twenty four hour notice of if they're gonna vote on anything some have been here. So I've not been, but they sort of just been waiting for the bat signal that they're going to vote scheduled and today's the day and today is the day finally Dunton Anna only took five weeks five. Five weeks that is how long the federal government has been partially shut down eight hundred thousand federal workers are either furloughed or working without pay. Most can't collect unemployment because technically they are employed. The report that really got me this week was in the Albuquerque journal about a ten year old girl who broke her wrists sledding. But hid the injury from her parents her father works for homeland security had warned her that the government shutdown men. They didn't have money to spare. Today's the first chance congress has to turn this mess around the senate's going to be voting on two different bills to reopen. The government not many people have much hope that either gonna pass, but Jim Newell's here. Explain why we should pay attention to this moment. Anyway, stay with us. Okay. So today, we're seeing this first legislation that could end the shutdown moving forward in the Senate. But I wanna talk about like how we got here at the end of last week. The White House puts out this announcement that we're gonna talk about some kind of compromise. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Sure. So with pock that a total standstill around this time last week, the White House came out and said that we're going to put a plan on the table in a speech on Saturday. It was something that Jared, Kushner and Mitch McConnell had been working on incorporating the priorities of rank and file Democrats and our plan. We hope they will offer their enthusiastic support. And I think many will it was sort of temporary protections for Dhaka recipient streamers as well as Ben. Efficiecies of temporary protected status. Three year extensions that in exchange for Trump getting his full five point seven billion dollar wall. Request. That was at least how it was framed initially once Jim dug into the actual text of the Bill though, the new protections. They looked really narrow there were restrictions on. How migrants could apply for a Silom that could black thousands from entering the country? If hiked the fees for applying for DACA protections, and it would make smaller pool of people eligible, which is fine. If you've still got control of both houses of congress. But not if you're negotiating with House, Democrats or house speaker Nancy Pelosi. Yeah, it was just a mess. It almost looks like Republicans put so many poison pills in there to ensure that it wouldn't get any democratic votes. So that they could say Democrats are being in transient on this. Nice compromise. We put together I mean that. That's how cynical it seem. You know, the level of changes. It was not something designed. To get you know, seventy five or eighty ports, you know, has really struck when the president made his speech on Saturday announcing this idea he said he'd met with Democrats or his team had met with Democrats and need their voices part of that. Is that true? No. I mean, that's he had one meeting with Democrats last week. He had a meeting with some centrist House Democrats and their message to him was I reopen the government, and then we can talk. So, you know, I think that was probably a very generous reading on his part of what Democrats would be willing to go for and Democrats they reacted like immediately. Even if it's possible to react before immediately. I acted right. Even before his speech. They said they rejected it. Yeah. Nancy pelosi. I mean. Yeah. Before when she saw what the offer is going to be rejected it called it a nonstarter, which by the way, did not go over well with some centrist House Democrats. They at least thought maybe she could. Have waited for him to give the speech and then call it a nonstarter. And so you're putting your finger on something which is at the same time. That clearly President Trump is feeling some pressure to do something Democrats are beginning to feel that pressure to like a few Democrats were to let it ANSI Pelosi, right? Yes. Some some Democrats, you know in this new class. There are a lot of Democrats who took over district's. But Republicans have held for decades that are just, you know, turning some of blue, but are still very swing districts and so lane Luria who's from Virginia new democratic member. She's organizing a letter and collecting signatures still essentially asking Nancy Pelosi to holy vote on Trump's wall after Trump reopens the government. So, you know, this isn't really that big of an ask. I know if Pelosi what her thoughts are on it yet. But you know, you could if Trump reopen the government, and then they just held a show vote where they either reject the wall. Quest or they amend it to make it whatever Democrats want, you know, that's not really asking Pelosi to concede too much. But I do think it's important to note that some Democrats are getting a little bit restless, and sort of wanna get this machinery going where we're at least eliminating options. So we can find what is the compromise is going to reopen the government and guess when I heard about the vote today at first I was confused because in the early reporting was like Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer have come to a compromise. We're going to have a vote, and I was like, oh, wow. Maybe people have talked to each other. And like there's a compromise going on. But then it turns out that compromise is two different bills that have nothing to do with each other. Right. Yeah. It's just a procedural compromise. It's not actually a deal being cut. It is one vote. I on Trump's proposal which Democrats aren't going to go for and then a vote on one of the Bill. That the house passed that would just reopen government. Stop got Bill until February eights. So the big question wants that deal was announced was okay. Is this Trump and Republicans caving here? Like are they going to support this February eight compromise? You know, this this Bill that they're finally bringing up or are they you know, just going to reject it too because it needs sixty votes. And it's looking a lot more like they're going to reject it too. So you you have one Bill that the Democrats really don't like one Bill that the Republicans really don't like. Well, they're like it. But Trump doesn't like it. So they can't like it. You know says who? I mean says their own fear of, you know, having Trump go after them if they if they defy him. I expect the White House and expect McConnell to urge most Republicans not to vote for this. So do you expect that whatever happens on the floor of the Senate tomorrow? It's like we should pop some popcorn and settle in. And like watch. I don't I don't think you should ever pop popcorn and watch the Senate in expect too many fireworks. But what does he, you know, as the day goes on where say Susan Collins is where Cory Gardner from Colorado who has a tough race coming up is where some of the other senators who are in either vulnerable, or in, you know, representing more moderate states, if they're willing to go for this. If they're also those vulnerable ones, not going to go for the Senate has no chance, and then we will wear will. We I don't know we will be stuck as we've been stuck forever. So let me you've said like there's very little chance of either of these bills passing. So why hold the vote at all? Well, I think Mitch McConnell, you know, I think the criticism that he's not been doing anything has been refusing to take any votes. I think there was a little bit think that got him a little bit. And he wants to put something on the floor. You know, the reason that president tr. Trump came up with this whole proposal in the first place was Mitch McConnell reached out and said we need to get something on the floor to vote and lease. You know, look like we're acting and that, you know, maybe that puts a little bit more focused on Pelosi that she's not doing enough to compromise. So I mean, that's why they were putting Trump's Bill on the floor. And then, you know, Democrats. Okay. If you don't want us to jam shut the Senate down extend this for days and days, then you know, we'd like vote too. So it's mostly timing thing. Why they're putting the second vote on the floor. If both are rejected. Does it kind of force people back to the table or do we just honestly not know because everything is so unprecedented. At this point. We honestly don't know. I do think it's important that some of the pressures have just been sitting around or are starting to show themselves. You know, it's important. That McConnell was feeling. A little uncomfortable position of not putting anything on the floor. It's important that somehow Democrats getting a little anxious with Pelosi's. Position that you wanted to go she ate and we're starting to see a little action. And we're going to, you know, even if we see things rejected that can be useful in finding. Well, okay. This isn't gonna work this isn't gonna work. This sounds very pathetic Graham, describing, you know, this is them rejecting bills as progress. But it is. I mean considering last year it was just, you know, Trump canceling Nancy Pelosi's flights and stuff that was like where we were. So so this feels like a level up. It is a level up. There's actual legislative stuff happening rather than just. Yeah. Pranks and tricks and stuff like that. Okay. I wanna take a moment to talk about the characters here. You talked a little bit about Mitch McConnell. He holds a lot of power here as the majority leader in the Senate. You said you think he's feeling a little bit of pressure to act, but I'm just wondering why is he been feeling not so much pressure until now like is it just that he's from a state where there aren't a lot of government workers who is not hearing from his constituents. Why is he able to hold himself at such a remove the reason he is holding himself at a remove in the first place and sort of going by you know, what Trump wants and not passing anything that Trump won't sign. He does not want to get his caucus into a divisive fight with President Trump over how to reopen the government. And because they think that Trump will then put the blame on them to the Republican base for caving Democrats. So it's not something to deal with the reason he may be moving. Now is just that the shutdown is getting longer and longer Republicans in polls or getting the blame for it. Republicans are defending season, Colorado. Maine, Arizona North Carolina Iowa next year that they need to hold their majority. You know, not all these states have a ton of government workers. And that's probably why he was allowed to hold on as long as he has already. But we may be at the point where this is going to do real political damage, if you know, it goes on much longer, and, you know, Senate Republicans need to step in keep inside have his head a little bit. I mean, you're much closer than I have. Are you sure you wanna go there? I asked so well, I just think that's you know, he just prioritizes. What's the worst case scenario for them most of the shutdown? The worst case scenario is been getting into a fight with Trump over the wall and caving on his behalf. I don't think for a second that he thinks the shutdown was a good idea. I think that's the way he prioritizes it. And once he choose the path he doesn't really veer from it. It takes a lot for him to get rattled interesting because you know, the Republicans for so long catered to their base and still do. But now, it seems like the catering is out of fear like the student has become the master. But I mean, that's just me looking from the outside where just seems like they're really controlled by a very consistent voting population. Right. And I think in the in the Obama era, it was with the tea party and just the. The way they were very trigger. Happy with putting primaries on members. You know? That's the way it was controlled. And now with Trump I mean, all that energy is manifest in him. So you know, he's seen as the one fighting for the wall fighting for the base wants. So if you go against him a lot of voters will see that as directly going against the base by going against him. It's not a very healthy environment. I mean so much of these negotiations rely on personal relationships. Dec- does Mitch McConnell get along with ANSI Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. I don't think he gets along with Nancy Pelosi. But I think he respects Nancy Pelosi, and, you know, recognize her is formidable McConnell and Schumer, they're not like going out to dinner together. But I think they have a decent working relationship. Even if you see them trashing each other on the floor, like, I I don't I think these are all professionals here. I think they all understand what the other is doing. So I don't think they really. Their personal feelings get in the way of it too much. Okay. So if I'm getting ready to settle in for some C-SPAN today would my looking for on the floor of the Senate who am I looking to sort of be Lert over peeled off. Like what what should I watch for one on the first vote on Trump's Bill? I'd be curious to see one. If it got any democratic votes. And also if it lost any Republican votes because it really does have some things that would be upsetting to GOP moderate as well some of the asylum changes and then on the the short term Bill to reopen. The government the house passed one I would watch someone like Thom Tillis or Cory Gardner, just someone who you know, is interesting political territory in twenty twenty and see what they do if Republicans get a significant number of defections on that, you know, even if it doesn't get them to sixty it's gonna show sort of how deteriorating their position is. And how they can't. Really hold out on this for too much longer. You know, the last time we talked it was a week or two ago. And you said you weren't really seeing like the impact of the shutdown when you're in congress. I'm wondering if that's changed at all. I mean, you live in DC are you beginning to see and feel the shutdown in any new ways, you see like all these restaurants and bars specials for furloughed workers and things like that. And you know, I so my girlfriend, and I are not we're on a house search and a couple of houses we were looking at had to go back on the market because the financing fell through because of the furloughs. So, you know. Yeah, it's just everywhere in DC. Thanks. Furloughed workers gathered on mass outside of senator's offices yesterday. They hoisted up these styrofoam plates meant to symbolize they need to feed their families. They had messages on them like jobs, not walls hostage read another. If the shutdown doesn't end today these workers aren't going to be getting paychecks tomorrow. I do think that's related to to why they're having these votes on Thursday. You know, they 'cause their next paid as Friday, and they wanna have something, you know, they don't just want to let that happen. All right. Good luck in their Jim. Yeah. Thank you. Jim. Newell covers congress for slate with a smile on his face and a song in his heart. That's today show. What next is hosted by me, Mary Harris and produced by Mary Wilson. And Jason to leeann we've had a ton of help this week from Daniel Hewitt, leave us a rating and review us in apple podcasts. It helps other people. Find us also have little secret for you. If you've made it this far what next has an Instagram account. We're still figuring thing out. But go ahead and follow us there. Anyway, where at what next pod talk to your Friday.

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All Things Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes

Five Rounds with Brett Okamoto

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

All Things Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes

"Before we begin today's show I wanNa tell you about my house. Scott Van Pelt to in my opinion is pound for pound one of the nicest people at ESPN and on top of that one of the most talented two people at ESPN. You don't need me to tell you about Scott Fan peltier as a legend but I wanna tell you about his brand new podcast. It's called the S V pod. You'd like listening to shows about sports sports gambling or just total nonsense. Check it out. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. And it's a phenomenal. Listen anything this man does is great and that includes his brand new podcast. Let's check it out all right. Let's do it Back in your life on this Wednesday February Fifth Two Thousand Twenty Logan Everyone Amarah Hawaii. Hope you're doing well cloudy Kinda Gray Wednesday here New York City. But I'm excited. It's a big day for me. geared ESPN at the ESPN. Seaport Studios doing this show I for all of you than doing aerial the bad guy and then making my co hosting debut on the will cain show so if you're listening to this in the vicinity of three to six PM eastern time or even afterwards you can go back and listen to the PODCASTS. I will be on with. Jason fits a talking about like real sports non. MMA things baseball basketball football. Who Knew who knew this could happen? It's a little old me so I'm very excited about that. Pack Day Jam Packed Day. And of course we have lots to talk about as far as I'm as concerned because it's you see to forty seven fight week. It's the return of Johnny Bones Jones. This Saturday Houston Texas against Dominic Reyes up and comer twelve. No rising star can be the one one to unseat John. Jones and Don Jones is on the verge of history. And I don't feel like this is being talked about enough going into this fight John. John's right now tied with George same here for the most amount of wins in a UFC titlefight thirteen thirteen. You have sea title fight victories. They both have thirteen. He wins this fight on Saturday. Course was fourteen and then he'll stand alone and I think that's a really big deal and I don't feel like that's being celebrated enough and it makes you wonder of course. How far along would he be heading don into the legal issues? PD issues all that stuff more but the fact that he is still here almost nine years exactly nine years in March when I won the belt youngest champion Twenty-three Years Young Shogun who a UFC one twenty eight Newark New Jersey of the fact that he is still the champ is pretty amazing. Okay so we'll talk a lot about that fight and this car coming up on Saturday later in the program Mark Mundy of ESPN. WHO's already in Houston will stop by? Set the scene for us. I believe this. This is the first time in Texas which KINDA blows my mind. I mean the guys from New York lives in L. A.. Houses the first time in Texas for you but anyway we'll we'll talk about that and then in the middle portion of the show. We're GONNA talk to Dan Henderson. The Legend himself Dan Henderson former multiple time pry champion. You have see contender all that stuff more. We're we're going to talk. The Dan Henderson. Who I have not talked to in maybe four or five years and I don't think a Lotta people realize as Dan Henderson has been training Dominic Reyes for this fight and we all recall? UFC One fifty one way back in the day it was supposed to be Hindu versus bones labor day weekend. Two Thousand Twelve Henderson gets injured. They offer John Jones on ten days. Notice Shell Sunan. John Says No first time you have see history. They have to cancel the card in a white says that that you know this was a very selfish decision on his part on the team's part and they never actually fought. They did compete against each other. At a submission underground event several years later quits gently promoted by Sunan but the always be intertwined. And I think it's fascinating that to you have see legends. Dan Henderson and Joe Stevenson. Our Training Dominic Reyes for this fight. But I as you may know I was just in Albuquerque New Mexico Last late Thursday night Friday to interview John Jones. I love going Albuquerque. I haven't been there very much over the last few years. In fact the last time I was there was November of two thousand fifteen after the hit-and-run accident and we did that interview walking around in the park. But I find John Jones's relationship with Albuquerque and the whole Jackson wing team relationship without cookie because they don't have a Wpro sports team. I find it fascinating because they kind of are the pro sports team in in many respects and John said something to me in that interview which we aired on Monday Eh. He said something when I was talking about his recent legal issue about holly homes. Still being the most popular athlete in Albuquerque. And that made me think of our next guest who the last time I spoke to him was when Holly Home beat Ronda. Rousey in the aftermath of that victory and how big of a deal that was remember the parade and she was just celebrated needed like no other American enemy fighter before after winning. A big fight. Had A great reporter from the Albuquerque Journal named Jeff Grammar joined the show the Monday they show to talk about. How big of a deal? That win was for Albuquerque in for Holly Home and so now here we are about five years later. Wanted to have jeff back on the program to talk about about John Jones's relationship with Albuquerque. If in fact his statement is true all these years later despite the fact that holly is no longer champion it and he's still on top so without further they do. Let's say hello now to albuquerque journals. Own Jeff Grammar. Who covers all kinds of sports for that paper kind enough to join us on this Wednesday? Jeff how are you. I'm good man how you doing. I'm doing great and full disclosure for everyone. We happened to run into each other just a couple of weeks ago at UFC. Two forty six. Maybe the first time we've met in person. Maybe the second can time you were there covering some college basketball but you are able to also cover to forty six those great to catch up and I did really think of you When when I was there last week and talking to John John About Albuquerque and whatnot and so so let me ask you off the Bat Is that in fact. The true statement is Holly Home. Still A lot. More popular than John Jones in Albuquerque despite the fact that John is still a champion without question. hallways holiest place and we'll talk a little more about John's place in In this state and in in the city in particular Holly's place in this city is is really unique. It's fascinating to me She she is the Queen of Albuquerque. She could she could run. I'm for office. She'd win She she has a special place in a lot of people's heart. And there's probably a lot of even non-sports dynamics that go into that I guess. But she's she's she's beloved here When when she Rhonda as you alluded to you know they? They had a parade for they. They they had a big party. Down at civic laws in downtown Albuquerque and There there could be some different emotions in my mind with this I I have a daughter just loves loves holly home and You know growing up in and she. She doesn't know what Paul even does. I don't even think she realizes all he Is is a fighter and and and does that she does now. But when when Holly- beat Rhonda She just knew man that wholly owned she's from here and and that daughter also has another interesting connection that I think we'll probably touch on with with John Jones. Yeah and his daughter It's fascinating fascinating to watch the holly home part of Albuquerque It's she's beloved. She can do no wrong she. She certainly carries herself in the way that that brings a lot. How does that on and people that may not even like fighting or or not? Pay attention to it She certainly brings out something I think and people that That just makes it or easy to like. It's amazing. I walked off the air plane on Thursday night at the Albuquerque Airport and they call it a son by the way. Why do they call it? A some port in on airport without getting into off track annoy born and raised in New Mexico. I I couldn't even tell you. Okay it's It's interesting but that's cool support school And is a big kind of painting of Holly Homerun as you walk off off the plane that this At this one restaurant over there which then came to find out that her agent Len FRESCA's owns and now makes more sense. But I don't think anyone bats an eye because of the reasons that you just laid out. So how does Albuquerque feel about John. Jones it's different. That's for sure I don't think they're looking to Mexico. prideful Michael State a lot of states. Are I get that but New Mexico. not a lot of money A lot of people have grown up here with families you know. Years and years and hundreds of years for for a lot of families here Very prideful state. We we give Colorado to the north a lot of grief when they think they're chilies better than ours and we give Texas you know to the East a lot of grief when they spell chilly with an eye because they don't even know real chilly as anybody. Listening should know is is the green and red peppers and it's spelled with an and espn just so you know it's not chilly tonight. At the end we we get mad about things like that we get mad about people coming in and taking shots at our athletes and our people and and this and that and You know holly always one of ours and John Jones the guy who came from another state and moved here and has has had an interesting as you know well far better you know more documented than than I could ever do it the even at the Journal because I'm primarily a fight fighter our reporter reporter. I'm sorry he his his rise to success has had all those kind of sidebar moments that have made New Mexico. I think at times is reluctant to embrace him This is a state that loves its fighting. It's a combat state. It's a fight state. It loves fighters and Johnny Tapia Is the there's parks here in Albuquerque named after Johnny Tapia and the troubles and tribulations top you went through in in some respects people could argue. Oh you are are worse than what John both were destructive both were had self destructive moments and tendencies with with alcohol abuse or drug. You you know issues and stuff like that but but Johnny I think was always embraced a little bit more because he was from here and he was one of our own. But you know Johnny also did prison time. Johnny also had a history of domestic violence and stuff like that. So it's interesting that he's so beloved here John. There was a reluctance to embrace them. But I we'll say this don hasn't gone anywhere after the hit and run which was years ago now several years ago anyway he could have easily gone back to New York he could have easily. Just come here. In training like a lot of fighters do there are a lot of fighters that have come through the the Jackson wing doors that that do their camp here and then go back home which is fine. Everybody's from somewhere you you know. Everybody lives somewhere but John is chosen to make his life here he he lives here doesn't just parachute in for camps. This is where he lives now and I think It it might have taken a while but I really do think John Jones is starting to become embraced a lot more by this community and I I think that he probably slowed that progress down himself with all these issues but I I do think New Mexico starting to embrace down Jones a lot more than I would have said just a few years ago. was there feeling two thousand fifteen sixteen seventeen in in the midst of that really bad stretch starting with the the hit and run and then the other legal issues the PD issues of what is their feeling amongst the community like we kind of just want this guy to leave. He's he's misrepresenting us. Yes I absolutely. There was in fact. I think I I can't remember the exact language but the we had a call him in our paper and the Albuquerque Journal and then of course calms Can come from all different perspectives and opinions. But we had to call them in our favorite with somebody basically saying look. You're embarrassing our state. And if you're not one of those things you don't get to embarrass our state like that and Jackson link should should cut ties with you and it wasn't something I wrote. I I sort of have a unique different perspective respective on John. I think that I there may be a soft spot. And maybe even to a certain extent a blind spot because Our daughters went to school together and and and that experience as sort of maybe created a different perspective in my mind. John But Yeah absolutely there. Were people saying John Enough. Look menu embarrassed our state enough. You don't get to come in from some other state and and make New Mexico look bad by doing this and there were people saying such things. I don't think a lot of that or people that are around the training that he does and and know that he lives here year round that he wasn't just kind of parachuting in and dropping in for camps like he does make his home here and I don't think those opinions were necessarily shared by people who know him and as you you know and and despite community look John's polarizing guy and his sincerity is in question all the time. People always wonder. Is he being even being honest. Right now is he is he. Is Everything everything so calculated because frankly comes across so So I think people have a hard time trusting him but the guy is a new Mexican. At this point. He's lived here long. Enough has been spent a decade raising his family here. This is his daughters growing up in Albuquerque schools. And at some point you become a new Mexican and I think John Is there and I think the community unity is accepting that. But I'll tell you a few years ago. There were more than a few that were like. Look man just get out of here. You're you're not one of us and you're embarrassing us. Wow you know it's interesting I'm just coming from a school play. Excuse me that my son had and You know so when you talk about you know having a daughter in the same classes his and you get to AC- parents in a different light. Did you get to see a different side of John Jones. Like would he come to these school functions. Would you see in there. And he's just a regular guy. Does everyone treat him differently. first of all both My daughter you know full disclosure told the story. There's a few people publicly so it's not some big secret but My daughter and his daughter were really good friends in kindergarten and first grade. Same Age Actually my daughter's a little younger He was Saint Saint Grades And then they went into a different school after. I think first grade but Yeah I mean Jesse. And and their daughters are still to this day friends with my daughter in the seat. See other target I know my wife and daughter saw them. Just I think just last week or or a couple of weeks ago now at target and talk forever so I I remember when when our daughter's in school first of all in kindergarten or as a group of four girls Did talent show together and one was johns. All this daughter and one was my daughter and We you know we have this picture of them at the talent show and John's daughters tall and my daughter looks a lot more like a sports writer. Couldn't do any sports. They're gonna they can you ever you ever WanNa be humbled. Let me tell you man. Just go go watch you know your daughter play tag recess Don Jones dollars man. I did not give you a full deck of cards to play with like she My daughter knows no different she. She doesn't realize that. But it's funny because I I'm sitting here writing in the sports sports section every day about athletes and in this town and this was really the first time I I had a connection beyond just me writing about them. I really you try. And take an approach to tell stories as opposed to tell what happened in a game or in a fight or whatever you know this is two thousand twenty and at this point people can look on their phone and see the score of the game. We'll see WHO WANNA fight. You're trying to tell the stories of these people and I. I really think about four or five years ago when they were in school together I kind of took on a whole different sprint understanding or appreciate maybe or or just an awareness of these are people because I saw John Look Desi took the kids to school most host every morning that there were probably on different schedules but I would take my daughter to school one morning afternoon figuring out how to even put her hair in a ponytail and I remember thinking man. I'm Jones this guy on this pay per view right here is doing the same thing you know. Come Monday morning. He's probably trying to figure out how to put his daughter's hair in the ponytail. And I don't know if any of that's true or not but I remember thinking those thoughts lots and maybe giving him a little bit more benefit of the doubt and I remember going to like a dance that the the elementary school had for you know very informal. It wasn't like some some big dressed up kinda prompting that dance for all grades and and Don was there and and as far as how other people treat him I remember people you know wanting his time and taking him away from the dance You know the parents are in their kind chaperoning. Just watching their kids dance like crazy and in this room and and and Everybody wanted a piece of John's time so that that I remember being difficult to watch because he wasn't sitting there enjoying the moment quite as all the other currents work And then I think I've told you a so this other story right after Holly beat Rhonda In Australia that was in November November of what was that fifteen. I think two dozen fifteen right So that was November. And I remember around that time. I'm sitting at a tiny table and a tiny chair for thinks. Elementary School thanksgiving lunch with our kids. You know parents get invited to do those Thanksgiving meals. And I'm sitting there with John and his daughter's sitting there at the table with me and my daughter and we're sitting there talking a few days after the fact I believe it was about about Holly Ali home. Who He loves? Just a sister him here in Albuquerque and he he believes holly and I'm talking to John Jones about the fight that holly just had with Rhonda Rousey which is an experienced is that obviously is pretty unique. I think the people all our kids around at a very unguarded situation that John had and he he he wasn't on you know he wasn't when when you interview them or I interview him or anybody interviews them or cameras around. He's on. He tries to to be very guarded and protected and all that but around his kids I just saw a different guy a little bit and and it wasn't that he was much different But you could just tell. He's he's not thinking as much about how to be calculated about what to say and I think since then I I probably give him the benefit of the doubt maybe More than than most people around here but what I what I will say is over the last few years the guy gets out in community and I I really think he's. He's a part of New Mexico. And a part of Albuquerque as much as just about anybody at this point and and I think he wants to help this community I. I don't know if you always always knew how to manifest that in into action. But I think he's now starting to get a little more organized with all that and I think he is starting to do things in the community that that will make New Mexico embrace them even more. I think holly a whole `nother level and that's another story but I do think New Mexico's starting embraced on a lot more than they ever did. And you had that great seen During Christmas where he rented this big truck and gave out coats and whatnot so it was good to see him do that and it does seem to me at least like he really wants to be a part of the community and wants the community Munib to be proud of him and last year was an interesting one because first half of the year like he's he's active he's winning fights and all that stuff and you know he's fighting on international fight week and I think that's symbolic because Dana White at one point was very mad at him and said he'd never headline a show with him ever again so that's great and then literally a couple of weeks later we get this story about you. Know this this This incident at Gentlemen's Club and they couldn't find him. And we come to find out you know several months later. He pleads no contest and this is kind of I I almost feel like the community is numb to it. Like if it's another fighter it's a big deal but when it's John it's like this is just another thing. I'm wondering in in Albuquerque. When that that story came out? Was It really big deal. Like Oh God here we go again. Or are the residents of Albuquerque and New Mexico are they just Kinda numb to it as well and it's no longer longer big thing when he's in trouble. No I think they you know there's there's probably a a a certain amount of numbness to it but no still still made read the news on all the TV stations here and certainly in our paper and it was more of the same and some people's mind and and some IRO too. But I do think that was one that from the start start Maybe people either didn't pay close attention to it at certainly the the the hit and run or or maybe maybe they just didn't care as much that one didn't have the have the traction that the past incidents did which which was interesting because Looking in this modern age of of social media everybody I think follows stuff like crimes or or allegations like that a little bit more sports figures than than ever before which is going back to Johnny toppy I if he grew up the social media age. Who knows how beloved he would be in New Mexico It could have been totally different story. But I think the the the John Jones Situation at the gentlemen's Club at. TV's here in Albuquerque I don't think people either cared as much about or maybe they had become numb to it. Because it didn't it wasn't just a blip on the radar but it didn't have the traction in terms of of interest or coverage here that that the other cases did so. I don't know what that speaks speaks to. I don't know if that's a We don't care At this point. Just 'cause we're we're told we numb to it or they just people just didn't think that was a story or a case or an allegation allegation that had legs to it that maybe the other ones did so here. We are talking on a Wednesday before one of his fights and I still feel like it's a big deal when he fights arguably the greatest just ever and like I said at the top PECAN history on Saturday. It's still feels special when you get to see him. Fight because honestly who knows how long will get to see him fight especially at the top in his prime. How how big of a deal on the sports scene? I know you say that you know isn't necessarily your beat per se but in the newsroom in the community how big give a deal. Is it when John Jones is fighting. How big a deal is it right now? Three days before the fight. It's big I mean he he'll be it'll be on the front of our sports sections that you know the rest of the week. He's already been there I I think John Jones still moves the needle here. I think the UFC recognizes that. I I think I mentioned that a few weeks back to the. US always been very kind. Frankly to the Albuquerque Journal and the Albuquerque media market in general because per capita one of the best pay per view buys citizen in the country and in the world. Probably we For that matter it has always been albuquerque. Now we're we're not a huge population base. But like I said per capita people by fights here and and that goes for boxing certainly But with the Jackson wing you know the rise of Jackson Wing through the years that that certainly translated to to MMA buys as well so this this is a community that loves its fights and this is a community that certainly recognizes greatness in combat sports and and John Jones that so yeah. It's a big deal. There will be watched parties. Ladies there will be bars and and even local casino casinos right out on the outskirts of town anyway That that sell out theaters bars for for John. John Jones fights now again. The holly fights always pack the place and and do great too but John will have watch parties. All over town from people here albuquerque that that no no greatness and no John is that and when people see him around town when people talk to him when people talk about about him you get the sense slowly but surely that they're starting to believe he's a changed man that the troubles are behind him or is it kind of a wait and see approach at this point. You know what's interesting for first of all I don't know I do see him In the community Equa- he's he doesn't hide. He goes out to the grocery store he he goes out to stores and go yeah. I cover primarily low basketball. which is a big deal here in Albuquerque and he goes to games and and get cheered wildly? People love him and and I don't think first of all I don't think people that do hate him or do have a problem with them are going to go up in public and say anything about it. There might be some of that maybe embar scenes or something like that which she tends to as far as I'm told Avoid a little bit more than he ever didn't live there. There might be some people that want peace of in those kind of settings. But you know he's going out to the grocery store he's going out in the community. He's doing things that people go up and hug him and say. Hey Champ whatever all those kinds of things I think in those settings he's he's he's really embraced but I don't know your to your question about our people in this. Wait and see mode. I think there might be a motive like that's that's John at this point and and and some people just don't care some people love him anyway. You know that's that's where I think. Maybe the evolution of of Albuquerque embracing John is is that you know a why wha- a lot like johnny top you like we get he has warts and we get he has flaws and and he certainly hasn't ever denied that he's no perfect person but I I think there's an awareness maybe an acceptance of this guy is thirty two years old and and through. His twenties made a lot of stupid decisions and mistakes in his life. Is that the. We're we're big time not just minor mistakes but he made some pretty major mistakes that were embarrassing to him and maybe embarrassing a little bit to the community but I think people understand this this guy you know we we just accept that that that is the guy who's now trying to better himself whether or not you believe he is trying to better himself is up to you but I. I think that this community is one now that that embraces the fact that he's he's local champion and he's doing things in this community and that goes a long way he's not just hiding out you know in his house somewhere and he's not flying out after camps. This guy's doing the coach thing over the winter this guy helps. He does a lot of help with with homeless people in the downtown area and stuff like that and and I do think that his mom's influence sort of guides him down this path where he wants to do something. I just don't know if you always understood how to how to do that and I think that there's there's a lot to be said for the acceptance. He's starting to get now. I think over the last several years in fact I'm in New Mexico. Just just because he does the right things here in the community. I'm not talking about the fight scene and and some of the things. He says that that people still attack all the time in terms terms of piping up a fight or or you know his his social media interactions with people. I'm just talking about here in this community. He's starting to do the right thing. That people I think are recognizing fascinating insight insight Jeff. I really appreciated his twitter. Handle by the way is at G. E. O. F. F. G. R. A. M. M. E. R.. Jeff Grammar of the Albuquerque Journal. I really appreciate you come on great to have you on the show again and thanks for taking out some time. I know you guys are busy over there so we really appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you to I want to pick your brain sometime about. Maybe the outside view of Albuquerque and the enemy seen Jackson Link so anytime I'm kind of I'm giving you this perspective. Pick your brain sometime about your perspective to anytime. I'd love love that we'll talk soon. Are there is Jeff Grammar of the Albuquerque Journal. Great Perspective on John Jones and the way he is viewed in his adopted home state of of New Mexico currently resides Albuquerque. Of course trains out of there as well now Very excited about our next guest. In fact I am somewhat embarrassed that this is the first time that we speak. I think for years I checked my my my text messages more than four years. It's it's very embarrassing. He is an absolute legend of the game. And when I happened to stumble upon the in fact he was training dominant greys for this fight. I knew I wanted to talk to him about this fight. He is the one and only Dan Henderson. And he's kind enough to join us on this Wednesday morning in California Dan. Dan How are you. I'm great how you doing long time. No speak Dan how's life. Oh Life's good just Stand pretty busy and plugging away. What is what is busy mean to you? What are you up to these days? Well I've been obviously I have my jam and Coaching thing and and have my kids that that keep me a little bit busy but I've also been working on a project. I'm I'm putting in the building next door door to my gym is a big restaurant brewery. distillery Oh wow okay so retirement life treating you while you're happy with it Yeah I can't complain landed all just You know I'm I'm enjoying life for sure. Do you ever get the itch. Sometimes I miss it one more fight Not Really Eh. You know maybe I missed the competition a little bit but not the preparation restore. How's the body holding up physically A body feels good. I mean my body was fine when I retired. I it just That was more about not recovering as well as I I used to and and having to spend a lot more time laying on the couch after practice and not spending time with the family right Well it's great to have you on and it's good timing the of course True or false. You have been working with Dominic right leading up to this fight Yeah his last Two or three training camps are between fights also he comes down about once sometimes twice a week. Mostly come down and spar with the guys at my gym so this isn't the first camp that you work doc with him it's been two or three say. Yeah Yeah I think Yeah definitely for obedience and and and Wiedeman has improved a lot since you started working with him. And if so in what capacity Well I don't know you could accredit that to me but yeah he'd definitely he's young and he's athletic and he really is Loves the sport enough so listen to people and learn he's very coach -able and and You know definitely takes it all and soaks it in and works on new things. News and Definitely tried to improve himself. He's relatively young and the game went. When you found out that he'd be fighting John Jones? Did you think that this was the right time to do ed or did you think it was a little too soon. Why are you put me on the spot like that? Initially I thought it was a little let you send I. I mean I would have preferred him to to kind of get maybe one or two more fights in and and You know a little more experience. It's but you during this training camp I think I definitely have changed my my thoughts on that and and you know I definitely think he's he's GonNa Surprise John Jones for sure a couple of things that John is said about him that I want to get your take on the I. Was You know when people fight him. I'm just getting to the fight in his mind. Is the celebration rate you. You're so taken by the moment. It's such a big deal and then of course he's been there so many times in the past. This is old hat it for him. Do you get the sense from dominic that he's just kind of happy to be there and is there any concern that the moment you've been on this stage many times before as much as anyone is there or any concern that the moment will be too big for him No I don't think so. I mean that's one thing about dominic is You know you have certain guys that that look a certain way in practice and training and and and then they go out into a competition and and don't perform the way they should or could Or have potential to do and and dominic one of the ones that are is pretty much the opposite he he looks pretty good in training. And and You're pretty confident with it. But he always performs even higher and higher level and and definitely put all out there and you know so mentally I think He's always ready to fight in always ready to perform and do what he's supposed to. I do follow the game plan. You know since I've been around him and watching them in practice and Kinda helped formulate a game plan he's it is really Calls it well and and their coach so you know I think mentally i. I don't think that'll be an issue issue. But yes I've seen that not just against Jon Jones but against other fighters as well that that people get out there get in in the cage with them and all of a sudden you know Kinda don't perform the way they should or could. John said something a couple of times at the first press conference that they had in mid December Essentially saying he only has a left hand. We've watched footage is just a left hand. Left hand left hand. If I could avoid that I'll I'll be fine. And when he said that I was wondering if dominic or or the team would go back and be like all right now. We're just going to have to work something else or maybe it's mind games on his part. He is concerned about our left hand and wants us to work on something else so that we don't use the left hand. How did you guys take the fact that he kept bringing that up You know I I honestly don't pay attention to a lot of the press conferences and stuff normal Dan. I thought you love that stuff there so this is the first. I'm hearing of it. Oh Wow I I just think it would. We didn't even care what John Jones thanks we. You know it's more about prepping and your own game plan and making sure that You know dominant controls the fight and fight where he wants it to go and not let John Jones control the pace so I I think You know obviously because John John knows that Dominic has left and that doesn't mean he's not going to throw the left hand I I mean I've been hearing that for for years about myself and my right hand so it doesn't do me any good not to try to throw it and typically still land so so you know I think dominic has a lot more tools than what John Jones gives them credit for You know which is definitely the dominates advantage in your opinion. What is the key to defeating John? Jones what do you have to do in this fight especially early to dictate the pace I oh I think I think With anybody they just need to Kinda not let John. Jones control the pace and not let John Jones You know stand there and pick you apart and and put the fight where he wanted to be. You gotTa Kinda make him uncomfortable make him well test is cardio a little bit and push the pace Without obviously walking into something dumb but you know just kind of stay in his face and make them fight you. There is some kind of theory out there. There are some people who believe that he's actually slowing down that he hasn't looked as impressive as of late. He didn't finish Santos. People were booing. IMP didn't show killer instinct and let Anthony Smith hang around as well in their in their fight back in March. Do you subscribe to that notion as well do you. You think that he has kind of slowed down a little bit and this is the perfect time to pick him off. Well I I definitely think that Physically and you know I guess that that accounts for looking how he fights as well he definitely hasn't looked the SAM since his last Positive drug tests he definitely Doesn't WanNa get popped again and you know it's noticeable. I think in his performance so you do believe that he was using when he was on top. You're absolutely okay. Well there's some people believe You know is a sexual enhancement tail and it was a mistake but you this you don't get you. Don't get two or three times right. He's he just You know Kinda got got a gift and a slap on the wrist. I don't think anyone else Would have been so lenient. Do you think that there is a noticeable difference in his fighting ability now or is it just the body I think his his cardio isn't what it used to be. Yeah I think yeah especially since Someone in the Industry Kinda got popped for for EPO. Ah that might be a concern. And it's a noticeable difference You know among other things but I just think He's kind of playing on a level playing field a little more now and you know it it. It shows there's also a theory out there that he struggles against taller fighters right Dominic Reyes talk fighters six foot four. I mean he could hang with him as far as the reach is concerned as far as the. Hi this concern. Do you believe that to be true as well I think a lot of a lot of the taller fighters out. There have trouble with other taller fighters they get kind of been bad habits abets. Because they're they're hard to get get touched. Sometimes you know that they can kind of lean back and get their head out of the way pretty easy. We're not keep their hands up in the right way and and Just not be as defensive as you in the right way that shorter guy normally has to do. But you know with that being said I think You Know He. He has trouble with a few things. Taller guys or one of them and and fighting backwards is definitely one of them. Well now will you be in his corner on Saturday. No I will not I'M GONNA be watching that on TV and hanging out at at home with the kids so But I'm pretty excited about it. was there any discussion of you. Cornering hiring him. I'm not really not a whole lot. I mean. He has his His other coaches that he's had for a while and I'm just there to help out and you know he's getting me motivated to Try to stay in shape a little bit too Not Get so chubby. So Oh I've been in their sparring with him about once a week for the last two or three training camps and it's it's good so other than I need to get out there and help Sam a little more now to he was gonNA fight coming up so I'm GonNa try to keep that going with a second. You're actually sparring with him. Yeah really yeah. How many rounds Typically it's about one with him he you know he's got a few guys is in there so I'll go around with them and I go with other guys do Sam some of our other guys that are coming up forty nine years young. Dan Henderson sparring with number one contender attending the light heavyweight division. That's amazing well done. Yeah I suck air a little bit but I don't get tired. I do fine. Let me ask you how often do you about you have C. One fifty one and the opportunity. That was there. You could have been the guy to beat John Jones you land that h-bomb this whole thing is not aww anymore. Well I don't re- typically think about it very often but when the subject does come up it does bummed me out that I didn't get that opportunity because I know in my heart and one hundred percent. I would've beat them up. I mean I was the most ready for for that fight than I had ever been in my life. So and You know it's unfortunate but you know you can't Can't can't live your life on the whatevs right would you take. What would it like? Maybe soften that blow a little bit take some solace in the fact that you will have prepared the guy I to be John Jones. I know it doesn't take that opportunity. You wanted to do yourself but it would be quite the story. If in the end you prepared the guy to beat them You know I I just hope the best for dominic. It's nothing about me and it's not gonna make me feel vindicated it any other way but you know I just wish the best for Dominic and he works hard and and he's a good kid and very athletic and I think he's ready ready to to take on the The role of being the champ. Do you have a prediction. You foresee particular way that this fight ends. Well no I mean. Obviously Dominic is Proven that that he's able to not guys out in that first round But you know I think I think he's got a pretty good chance of Beaten Jones up In in maybe around the fourth or fifth round his his cardio's pretty damn good interesting interesting. Okay and last thing for you Dan. I'm just wondering. Do you still watch him a mayor. You Still Fan of the sport. Are you still in tune with what's going on or have you taken a bit of a breakdown retirement Ah I do not watch as much as I used to You know it's a little bit more difficult to watch sometimes with everything streaming online now and I definitely still watch certain fights. I don't know how the fighters out there. Now there's A. There's so many new guys and I've tried to keep track of Some of them you know between seeing belot orders one or two fights. It's every week right. Yeah there is a lot. It's it's changed a lot since you around but I'm happy to hear that you're still involved in the sport and and when I saw this I saw particular picture of you and Joe Stevenson an exit dominant like wow this is really cool and Cool story considering your ties to to John in the past. I appreciate you doing this. Dan I was. I was really happy that you wrote back to me. Sometimes it's hit or miss. I'm not sure I didn't know if that was still your your same old phone number from all those years ago so great to hear from you. Great to talk to you and good luck to you in the team by the Saturday. Good luck to you in retirement and everything that you're doing back home as far as your your businesses are concerned more. I will thank you create it anytime. Let me know all right. Thank you so much theory. Theory is the one and only Dan Henderson. How cool is that? Dan Hendel Henderson. Absolute legend of the game. And I hope that you newer fans know about what that man is all about and what he did in the sport and the moment said he had and the victories that he had in the big fights that he was a apart and he wasn't able to fight John on jumped. Never got that opportunity. That you've see fifty one and that was a shame but this man has had his fair share of legendary nights in the sport and really great to hear from him again and to catch up again again and talk about this big fight. So that's the perspective. As far as John Jones is concerned in Albuquerque. That's the dominant greys perspective. Now let's get a little taste of the scene in h town right right now. Let's say hello to my old pal marker money who is on location in clutch city as we speak and true or false mark. This is your first time name in the Great State of Texas. Is that accurate. That would be false aerial. I have been to sexists before but I've never been to the great city of Houston the first time in Houston. I've been to Dallas. Okay I've been to San Antonio Okay Cub Swanson versus Jeremy Stevens card way back one. Why I went to that he did? I've not been days. Now why did I go to that one. This is my job aerial. God coats wants Jeremy Stevens fight night. Kurt was a Banger. You're okay fine bluster this during your Fox days. Wasn't it correct. All right sense now makes sense okay. For some reason I thought you said first time in Texas now makes a lot more sense I mean in Houston h town clutch city. What do you think of it? So far what is had some chicken and waffles from the breakfast club recommended me by. UFC matchmaker maker ordinary mic maynard. Yes and it was fantastic. Wow fantastic stuff. Yeah so so far. So Oh good I would say any kind of Buzzer a little too little too early for that a little too early. I I've spoken to some Uber and lift drivers whereas L. David none of them were aware that there was a UFC on Saturday although one of them was a UFC fan. But he didn't see here on Saturday. That's not really a great sign. Yeah early Thursday night. Friday's when you really start to get the you know the sense of how excited the market is and how how big of a deal. This is there. Do you do share my sentiment here. Even though it may not be the biggest name opponent anytime John Jones fights feels a little more special right. It just feels different Brent and especially this one. He's on the verge of making history he can win fourteen fourteen fights for for for a UFC title. That's a big deal but it just has a bit of a different buzz to who at least for me personally how about you. I've I've always felt that way going back years Iro because we don't want to say we don't often see greatness in the sport because we do see greatness and I've made fairly often but we have never seen the greatness that that John Jones has brought to the Octagon I. That's I mean to me. That's that's a a a plain fact. It's indisputable he is. He's the greatest fighter of all time. Say what you will about drug test failures. I know there are other fighters who have a lot of accolades but I for for my money. It's John Jones and it and it has been for quite some time and I cherish every opportunity to see him fight because he is a true master Sir of his craft and the guy has never truly been beaten is only lost by disqualification. And Look I mean this may be. I don't know if this is a hot taker. It's not but eventually John Jones will probably lose a fight so I mean during this time where we're watching him and cherishing the fact that he's one of the greatest the greatest of all time something in the back of your mind is like is this going to be the time when he finally gets broken. It's been forever. He's never lost really two thousand nine. What's his only real? I mean his only quote Unquote Lost Matt. Hamill but I mean I think the time. The time is ticking. Getting a little bit older. I don't know I don't know if it's going to happen on Saturday but I mean right am I crazy to think that conventionally every item may fight or does actually the fight no absolutely I mean maybe not off. He's not trending but yes everyone at some drew. She has two losses and didn't lose for a very long time two thousand nine. I've taught my head. I think was his last loss. So yes absolutely And I still like I find it interesting having John Jones Card right after a conor McGregor card back to back pay per views because here's connor. Who is not a champion? Who isn't at least right now considered one of the best ever and and maybe that's wrong? Maybe that's right who knows But the biggest star in the sport the biggest draw yesterday we get information from. CEO of Disney. Bob Eiger about how great that paper you did and then you have John. Jones who in many people's eyes is the greatest ever. WHO's on the verge of all kinds of history and all this stuff and and like even when I read the comments about my interview with him people are like This guy cheater like I just feel like I don't know the fans have a very strange relationship towards a Mike even when he says the storm is behind me. No one believes him right or ninety. Five percent of the people. Don't believe him. I don't know if they're numb to him. Or maybe they're just kind of tired of the same old stories or I'm back and I've learned from my mistakes but I do feel like the fans are reluctant to truly get behind. You get that feeling as well I mean I think I think that's been one of the stories of John's career. I don't I don't know if he's ever really had an NBA fan by fan base completely behind him and he has not been able to drum trauma that that casual fan support. That conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey was able to drum up for themselves for for whatever reason I mean there are reasons. You could say that that John Jones for to do that. I think that right now for him I think the problem. I mean it's not really a problem is that he doesn't have. He doesn't have a great foil. He had it in Dan Cormet. It seems like that rivalry is now gone and done and right now you know he. He'd beat thous enter Gustafsen Banana Smith does. These aren't these aren't big names or not they're not. I don't think people see them as credible rivals for one of the greatest of all time and John Anjan whereas Dan Cormier was that maybe a Rashad Evans was that they had that personal feud the rampage Jackson they had there. was that personal thing. There there isn't really anyone who people kind of put right there with with Jones. And maybe maybe that'll be next. Maybe that'll be after this but I think he needs that right now for the the the more casualties to kind of connect with him again if he wins on Saturday. Do you think is next. Fight is at heavyweight. I do unless there's some kind of compelling fight for him that we that doesn't make sense. That is not apparent right. Now Al going into this fight against racist if that makes any sense I think. I think you'll be heavyweight You know unless Israel out of Sonya is GONNA move up to light-heavyweight next after the Romero fighting and fight Jones. I don't know that's realistic. I don't think it is but yeah. I think that I think Jones needs something I think he knows it too. I think the AFC he knows it all all due respect. I'm GonNa Courageous and you know we could be talking about mccray his beating beating John Jones incredible title defence streak on Saturday. But as of right. Now if you're asking me about the future of John's and what can you do to kind of get hot again. In terms arms of life heavyweight is probably one of those things. So here's how I mapped out this morning on. ESPN DOT COM. If he wins on Saturday I say the he comes back very quickly. May or June probably June because as the Brazil pay per view and fights the winner of Corey Anderson versus the I'm Buffalo. It's that's in seven days and so the timing is perfect and really if you look at the division now that Johnnie Walker loss those are really the last two guys left that can make seeks some kind of case and especially Anderson. WHO's been poking him in been very vocal if he wins and especially if he wins impressively which I would I would suggest to him to try to win decisively acidly so that everyone's kind of clamoring for you to fight you take that fight and buy yourself some time for the UFC? BOOKSTAVER SAYS DC three. Get that over and done with hopefully July August September so and then try to make your heavyweight debut Madison Square Garden November end the year with three fights and end the year fighting in the heavyweight division. I feel like that would be the perfect twenty twenty for John Jones. I mean all of that sounds great on paper. I mean there's there's so many question marks though especially with St Pe- CPA and DC though right right but we don't win. That fight is going to happen and could he could. He I mean is is John Jones at MSG in November against the wonder of that fight realistic. We don't don't know enough is going to be July August September But also of DC wins. He may vacate the title and just retire. Right right. which would be kind of the shame? Because we'd be on the verge of one of the biggest ever right and I wonder and I wonder how that would would would play out. It's going to be interesting. I mean so. They need to do Jones in Ghana at MSG. I met. That'll be massive. That will be massive. I think John Funding anyone at heavyweight would be of great interest and then the other thing of course is like Kenny. Stay out of trouble double for a whole year. The first half of twenty nine thousand nine was great and then we had the incident at the Gentlemen's Club which was not great. And we thought maybe that we'd be back to the old John Jones and he to have avoided any serious repercussions there an out here. He is fighting in February. And I almost feel bad talking about this in this way because I really do. I feel like dominant Greys isn't getting enough respect. Like I think he has a shot. Do I think he'll pull off the upset. I mean it's still John Jones and he hasn't given us much indication that he is a lesser fighter than once was. I know that's kind of a theme going into this fight still John Joe's do give dominic chance or do you think that this is somewhat of a easy pick. I guess I give them a chance. I certainly anyone a chance in the. UFC everyone is everyone is pretty elite in the AFC. And he's he's served his shot at the title. It's going to be hard. It's going to be a hard road for him because I mean on paper. It seems like Jones has every the advantage outside of maybe just a power advantage. People have talked about Racists kicks kicks but we're talking about wrestling talking about doc rob we're talking about just seasoning just just experience level at the very highest point of UFC and Jones has that in spades. So yeah the shot but it certainly seemed like the he's behind the eight ball going on on many many levels. Do you get the sense. This is something that John is brought up that like. He's just happy to be there. You're like you know you're in front of him right. You were at the scrum in in La just last week less than a week ago talking about it. He's taking pictures of himself on the the sportscenter marquee archy and for him just being here getting this title fight as his touchdown. Did you get the sense being in front of him that he's just happy to be there. I don't I don't I I feel like I look. I think he's someone who has been an athlete his entire life. He's been a competitor his entire life. And someone like that this this is his first. This is his first Rodeo. And I'm sure that when John Jones got his first title fight against Shogun would in Newark way back when in two thousand eleven he was doing the same thing by taking a picture himself on the Marquee Marquee and and so on and so forth and now of course we know what happened from there. I don't think I don't think race is like that. I think that first of all it's this is not someone who's been who's been a journeyman who's been around to Kinda getting his courtesy title shot. This is a guy who's undefeated. He's he's a prospect that were gets overused but I mean he's undefeated Vida Guy. He's he's I think he's twenty nine or thirty. He's not he's he's fairly young still in his prime so I think that he is going out there with the attention of winning and knocking off Johnson and by the way I feel like you know all all these conversations that people have about John John's nowadays I feel like people who you know. Forget just how damn good he has been and how and how damn consistent. He's been I mean he's been champion. I mean I know there are some starts and soft but for for I mean mean most accounts he has not. He has not lost height since he wanted to dozen eleven. I mean that's incredible Consistency yes amazing And I referenced that Photo in Toronto Verano before you have C. One twenty nine and he's on the stage with ESPN does a Aldo and dominic Crews and Anderson Silva. None of those guys are champions anymore and the majority of them are near title-fights oh Aldo somehow fighting for a belt in in May on a two fight losing streak but that's another story for another day it's really incredible and considering all the the the stuff that he has been through that he has put on himself the self inflicted wounds so to speak. It's incredible they still here. Chevy now this is a fun debate. That's come up this week and we talked about it on their own. The bad guys want to ask you. What would be a bigger upset in your mind? Raise beating Jones or Caitlyn Kagan beating Valentina Shevchenko for the women's One twenty-five okay. That's a good question I think I would. I would say race beating Jones just for the simple fact that Jones been doing it for so long long I mean again to me is the best of all time so it would be a shocking victory for Ray who still slow kind of guy who was not well known own even MMA circles so. I think that will be bigger just on that scale of things although I mean go with so good. She's just not nearly as established Babushka as as a champion Jones. It so that's probably what I would say. I think I think Shivshankar losing is a bigger deal. Honestly I think the gap between want to be a bigger deal big deal but it was more surprising result. I should say I understand. We're coming from because I think that goes as dominant dominant champion. But if you're if you're asking me who has. Who has the harder path of victory? I would probably say cave-in Kagan even though I think race also has a pretty hard pat the victory but but as far as the scope of it I I think grasping Jones is a bigger upset in that in that way. Yeah a bigger story. Yesterday I shouldn't say bigger the deal per se But the gap is bigger. She's currently a plus seven fifty according to our stats and Info and just by the way was a plus eight hundred. got into title fight back. In June BECO was a plus eight fifty going into the Ronda. Rousey fight at at one nine other people that were plus eight hundred other title contenders intenders. That were plus eight hundred. Alexis Davis Against Ronda. Rousey Chris Rossouw against DJ Valerie Latour no against Rhonda. Excuse me against you NJ check on the Ronda Holly Home Card Deanna. Kuhn Kaya Against Chris Cyborg so those are a few other names and none of them one so this would be a pretty big deal in its zone rate and I mean I'm I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable saying that. Valentina Shevchenko's is one of the best women's women may fires of all time already. Yeah I'm already. I'm already uncomfortable saying that. So I mean certainly that would be a massive upset. I I'm comfortable look I. I don't know why it was such a big deal when the UFC split the men and women pound for pound list. I've always done it that way. But I would strongly argue that. She's one of the best fighters on the planet right now regardless of yesterday and I think argument are there. I don't I don't think I don't think. Many male fighters disagree. I mean just just like pound for pound technique for technique. Right I mean who who. ooh A better pure striker than Valentina. Shevchenko I mean. As far as just the technique goes as far as just you know her her ability in that way I I mean. It's it's hard to envision. I mean just just look at what amended Nunez did Chris. cyborg get the Holly Home and look at her fights against Valentina Shevchenko very different. Yes mark has a great story up on. ESPN DOT com slash may right now about the prefight nerves anxiety leading up to a big fight. It's a really great read. I I love this topic and I've been talking to a lot of fighters about it just spoke to Sergio. Pederson Eliot Marshall about it on on my show Monday As a little preview before or you go which store in particular. There's one that I'm thinking of right now. Just looking at the article that is just like wow. This is crazy statement. But which anecdote from from all these fighters and you spoke to an impressive list fighters Kamara Donald's Aronie and Caitlyn UK. Gin and wonderboy Thompson Darren telling their Muslim. There's just a bunch of guys yeah Is there one anecdote in particular that that really stuck with you there. There are so many good ones and I really can't. I can't thank all those fighters enough for opening up to me about some topic that is sensitive and not many people really want to talk about their security is like that leading into you know very important event in their lives. I would say I would say Stephen Thompson probably I mean that stands out to me a lot I mean. He said that he wishes an asteroid. Royd it's you know the the arena. So he doesn't have to fight. I mean that's like a I mean it's it's it's funny. I know he watched a lot of like dragon. Ball Z. So maybe that that plays into that. But I'm Kaylin Kagan saying that. She jokes every fight on the way to the all hope the car gets into a crash and and we don't have to. I'll have to fight that kind of stuff and then someone like just engage. You saying like I you know I feel absolutely nothing like this. Just he's just dead inside going zoo us to fight which maybe maybe not surprising for Justin Gates Right. It's a really great reading another reason why I love him and may fight or so much. Because they're viewed as these tough strong wrong alpha males alpha females and yet they're so open to talking about their feelings and their fears and their anxiety leading up to these fights so it's a great juxtaposition there and This this story has it all so well on the story. I look forward to seeing you in in Houston tomorrow mark and I appreciate you taking some time out of your chicken and Waffles to join us this stuff. Thank you very much. All right there is Mark Romandie of ESPN setting the scene for UFC. Two forty seven. Houston I'll be there tomorrow. Thursday A to kick off our coverage at media day and then the winds on Friday and then of course the event also were having our prefight radio show four to six. PM EASTERN ON ESPN ESPN radio. They won't put that on the on the full screen during my Monday show but rest assured. I'll be taking your calls and we'll have some special guests join us as well but now everyone's favourite segment Sigmund of the week. Yes tease minimalist hip sir. Hey I like that little shy corporate jake there. Well I mean how many times I've been doing this radio show for a little over a year now and I still can't get on the full screen. I know no love for us in the audio business. It's amazing then you know these. TV Guy Sometimes. They have a little bit of A. I don't know they have a bit of an ego when it comes to what they do compared to the radio people and I like to try to bridge the gap by like everyone to be on the same team all in this together while trying to grow the sport of Emma may together here at ESPN. And so I feel like all platforms should be recognized everything that you just said. That is very much related to my minimalist tip of the week here. I'll tell you there's the synergy here so when I became a minimalist two three ish years ago I noticed it just became such a better person. My heart was more full. I started being nicer to everyone and brought more kindness into my life and in in the anime world. There's a lot of vitriol and all sports but in the world and in the online community there. There's a lot of hate going around and as a person who doesn't really like hate I. I like to spread the love. It made me think about this. So there's this theory out there. It is called the loving kindness theory and so what it is Ariel. Is that even. If you don't know a person if you've never come across a person in your life you've never met them. You just wish that person. The absolute best and I do this in several Instances in a day for example where I might walk by someone in the hall or have an exchange with someone whether that is a clerk or whether that is a customer service person on on the other end the line and after I'm done with that interaction with that person I decided to say to myself you know what I hope. That person has the best day ever that when that man or woman is driving home today that they're going home to you know to children to loving children a loving husband or wife and that there's going to have a great night out made me go to the movies or something like that. You just wish the absolute best upon other people that you don't even know and when I started doing that I started doing that at a point in my life where I was where I was not too happy where where I need to make some changes but didn't know how and that was one of the first changes I made. I read that theory in a book. The loving kindness theory and I started adopting it and started wishing the best on people and and by wishing the best on other people my own experience of life started to improve. And so for anyone out there who you know tears other people down onto trying to make themselves feel better. How `Bout you build other people up to try to make yourself feel better that works just as well love that it feels good to give people compliments? It feels good to boost people's confidence An end to make them feel good about themselves and I really do believe that. I couldn't agree more when you put that. Positively I feel like the positivity comes towards you do whatever you WANNA call it. Good Karma whatever. I totally agree with that. One hundred percent by the way. I didn't even know that this was top. You never tell me what your topics are before the show but you feel full in the heart when you are good towards other people's so yes amen preach that's a great. I feel like that's a good one. If you're a minimalist or not like that's just that's that's just like a good person thing exactly exactly and I know you you may say. Oh you're supposed to tell us about how to get rid of things whatnot like no. That is the first step. People think minimalism Melissa. Is this radical way of being that you. Just sit on the floor with candles on no whites and you just have nothing in your home like no. That's not what minimalism is. The first of a minimum of embracing minimalism is. Yes getting rid of things and experiences and other things in your life that are that are detrimental. That don't make you better but beyond that once you once you remove things you start to make other changes in your life how to become a better person loving kindness theories one of those things that I adopt. Amen Now Along those lines I believe our our our review of the week is very positive as well. Not so much so over fiend. Seven one five year has a one star review. Wow and I'm happy that you chose a one star review this week because I don't want people to think that we're just picking taking the five stars I mean I'm not trying to encourage one-star reviews but you know we're we're fully transparent here. Sometimes you got to address the one stars Amen. So here we go last week. Aerial proudly boasted. How he inadvertently started the Jones Evans rivalry by making sure Joan saying he evans from his interview made it on the air? What Kawana never asked Jones? That question would Evans have left Jackson wink so quickly here. In Jones having no problem with fighting his mentor national television. We all can agree. Evans was never the same after you left Jackson wink only winning two fights after losing to Jones retiring on a five fight losing streak since then going Vegan growing dreadlocks and considering returning out welterweight wait organization. Are you happy aerial. I'm totally trolling hopes. GST on the pod you guys should have a third podcast. Forty five minute once on Fridays his re answer questions that our views in Kohl's respect. Wow I think we started out bad and then we ended in a great spot. This clearly is coming from a quote unquote casual Israel. Because if I would have done that interview back in two thousand eleven as John. Jones is preparing to fight Shokhin. Who for the belt with the whole Rashad Evans story kind of looming? Coming out there. He was the guy who was supposed to fight Shogun. The reason why Johnson's got that title fight is because Rishaad injured his knee and so Jones as awkward as it was replaced his mentor. And so if I would have done that interview and not ask the question I should have been fired like like like quite simply. I should have been. Let go that day. That was the most obvious of the questions to ask and that is why I was shocked that they didn't include it in the piece. The three minute piece that aired during the prefight refi shows so no. I'm not ashamed was I- boasting. I don't think it was boasting. I was telling the story about how this thing almost never happened. Because some guy some edit room I'm in your city didn't think that it was newsworthy. It was boasting eventually. Trust me it would come out the fact that Jones said it was an indication that they were already not on the best of terms because prior to that he never wanted to address this and neither did Rashad and moments after John beat Shogun at UC twenty eighth shot told me literally minutes later that he was done with Jackson wink and that he was moving on and going to train in Florida. Now he decide that right then and there no but you know that kind of sealed the deal after John won the fight and they all made money and they had a good time another. Actually I think in a pretty good spot. It's a chill out. I'm boasting about the the divorce of a of a of a friendship if you will. I thought it was crazy that they didn't include it in the peace and I saved it with twenty four hours left Arrow. I always appreciate your history lessons. Thank you is this is all pre my fan but koby interview this week. Oh yes I know you were I was thinking of you. I thought that we should have had a camera wherever you sit during the show. I have no idea where you are in some cave. Dungeon little studio closet Just you probably just clapping at all the crazy things that he was saying. I just love your reactions to when he says outlandish stuff. He goes on a rant last question about John Jones and his past. And you just say Koby welcome back. Yes well I mean what else. There's no other way to handle this then. I'll say this about Kobe. Say what you will. The man kept his word told me that he would come on the show. I he would talk to us. I it took some time name and some people are pointing to the fact that hey he was You know he was away for six weeks and he claims he didn't have a broken job but you know the typical recovery time for a broken jaws six weeks. Just relax with all your conspiracy theories all right. It's good to have them back. He makes things interesting and and now we'll see where he fits into the welterweight title picture. I don't know if he's going to get that immediate title shot or the rematch. I don't think it's going to happen. Given his relationship with you of seeking the fact that he wasn't the champion Challenger in the fight ended in the fifth round. But it's GonNa be interesting time. Does he fight someone else. Does he sit out and wait. I'm curious to see how it plays out but for now we are at a time. TST A tight ship. Troy is running a tight ship. In fact I'm running. A tight ship is up to run over to do err on the bad guy right now and then again later. Today I'm going to be on the World Kane show. What am I gonNA talk talk about? I'm going to try to throw in as many. MMA references throughout the show. Maybe even if it's just like subtle things like I'm not impressed by mookie. Betts performance it just little subtle things for all of us if you can find the Easter eggs if you will. I'm looking forward to that. That's going to be a lot of fun man Steven A.. Just gave me a thumbs up. You see that that's it's the kind of love we have great on that note even gave me a thumbs up through the window here. My Man Steven A.. Museveni together taken on all the haters combat as Bros.. Come at us. Okay Radha time. Thank you very much all our guest today. Thanks to all of you. Continuing to download rate subscribe review. All those things things have more and feel free to be generous with your five star reviews right five start up. We don't mind enough with one stars enough of the hatred the animosity the vitriol loving kindness. Yes Amen Thank you very much Jeff. Grammar great stuff great insight. Thank you very much. Dan Henderson the legend. TSE just learned to. He was fifteen minutes ago. I'm glad that he is starting to learn is ever made. History will be on the radio four to six. PM Eastern on Saturday got a ton coverage coming your way from Houston and of course. I'll be there with mark Monday Brenner. Komodo and our entire team for now though. We're out of time thank you for listening. Thank you for your support. I I love you I will talk to you from Houston take.

John John Johnny Bones Jones Albuquerque John Jones Dan Hendel Henderson Dominic Reyes New Mexico Albuquerque Journal UFC ESPN Don Jones Texas Dan New York City Albuquerque Airport Dan Henderson basketball Jeff Grammar Houston IRO
All Things Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes

Ariel Helwani's MMA Show

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

All Things Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes

"Before we begin today's show I wanNa tell you about my house. Scott Van Pelt to in my opinion is pound for pound one of the nicest people at ESPN and on top of that one of the most talented two people at ESPN. You don't need me to tell you about Scott Fan peltier as a legend but I wanna tell you about his brand new podcast. It's called the S V pod. You like listening to shows about sports sports gambling or just total nonsense. Check it out. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. And it's a phenomenal. Listen anything. This man does is great and that includes his brand new podcast. Let's check it out all right. Let's back in your life. On this Wednesday February Fifth Two Thousand Twenty Logan. Everyone Amarah Hawaii. Hope you're doing well cloudy Kinda Gray Wednesday here New York City. But I'm excited. It's a big day for me. geared ESPN at the ESPN. Seaport Studios doing this show I for all of you than doing aerial the bad guy and then making my co hosting debut on the will cain show so if you're listening to this in the vicinity of three to six PM eastern time or even afterwards you can go back and listen to the PODCASTS. I will be on with. Jason fits a talking about like real sports non. MMA things baseball basketball football. Who Knew who knew this could happen? It's a little old me so I'm very excited about that. Pack Day Jam Packed Day. And of course we have lots to talk about as far as I'm as concerned because it's you see to forty seven fight week. It's the return of Johnny Bones Jones. This Saturday Houston Texas against Dominic Reyes up and comer twelve. No rising star can be the one one to unseat John. Jones and Don Jones is on the verge of history. And I don't feel like this is being talked about enough going into this fight John. John's right now tied with George same here for the most amount of wins in a UFC titlefight thirteen thirteen. You have sea title fight victories. They both have thirteen. He wins this fight on Saturday. Course was fourteen and then he'll stand alone and I think that's a really big deal and I don't feel like that's being celebrated enough and it makes you wonder of course. How far along would he be heading don into the legal issues? PD issues all that stuff more but the fact that he is still here almost nine years exactly nine years in March when I won the belt youngest champion Twenty-three Years Young Shogun who a UFC one twenty eight Newark New Jersey of the fact that he is still the champ is pretty amazing. Okay so we'll talk a lot about that fight and this car coming up on Saturday later in the program Mark Mundy of ESPN. WHO's already in Houston will stop by? Set the scene for us. I believe this. This is the first time in Texas. which kind of blows my mind? I mean the guys from New York lives in L. A.. Houses the first time in Texas for you but anyway we'll we'll talk about that and then in the middle portion of the show. We're GONNA talk to Dan Henderson. The Legend himself Dan Henderson former multiple time pry champion. You have see contender all that stuff more. We're we're going to talk. The Dan Henderson. Who I have not talked to in maybe four or five years and I don't think a Lotta people realize as Dan Henderson has been training Dominic Reyes for this fight and we all recall? UFC One fifty one way back in the day it was supposed to be Hindu versus bones labor day weekend. Two Thousand Twelve Henderson gets injured. They offer John Jones on ten days. Notice Shell Sunan. John Says No. First Time you've see history. They have to cancel the card in a white says that that you know this was a very selfish decision on his part on the team's part and they never actually fought. They did compete against each other. At a submission underground event several years later quits gently promoted by Sunan but the always be intertwined. And I think it's fascinating that to you have see legends. Dan Henderson and Joe Stevenson. Our Training Dominic Reyes for this fight. But I as you may know I was just in Albuquerque New Mexico Last late Thursday night Friday to interview John Jones. I love going Albuquerque. I haven't been there very much over the last few years. In fact the last time I was there was November of two thousand fifteen after the hin run accident and we did that interview walking around in the park. But I find John Jones's relationship with Albuquerque and the whole Jackson wing team relationship without cookie. Because they don't have a Wpro sports team I find it fascinating because they kind of are the pro sports team in in many respects and John said something to me in that interview which we aired on Monday Eh. He said something when I was talking about his recent legal issue about holly homes. Still being the most popular athlete in Albuquerque. And that made me think of our next guest who the last time I spoke to him was when Holly Home beat Ronda. Rousey in the aftermath of that victory and how big of a deal that was remember the parade and she was just celebrated needed like no other American enemy fighter before after winning. A big fight. Had A great reporter from the Albuquerque Journal named Jeff Grammar joined the show the Monday they show to talk about. How big of a deal? That win was for Albuquerque and for Holly Home and so now here we are about five years later. Wanted to have jeff back on the program to talk about about John Jones's relationship with Albuquerque. If in fact his statement is true all these years later despite the fact that holly is no longer champion it and he's still on top so without further they do. Let's say hello now to albuquerque journals. Own Jeff Grammar. Who covers all kinds of sports for that paper kind enough to join us on this Wednesday? Jeff how are you. I'm good man how you doing. I'm doing great and full disclosure for everyone. We happened to run into each other just a couple of weeks ago at UFC. Two forty six. Maybe the first time we've met in person. Maybe the second can time you were there covering some college basketball but you are able to also cover to forty six great to catch up and I did really think of you When when I was there last week and talking to John John About Albuquerque and whatnot and so so let me ask you off the Bat Is that in fact. The true statement is Holly Home. Still A lot. More popular than John Jones in Albuquerque despite the fact that John is still a champion without question. hallways holiest place and we'll talk a little more about John's place in In this state and in in the city in particular Holly's place in this city is is really unique. It's fascinating to me She she is the Queen of Albuquerque. She could she could run. I'm for office. She'd win She she has a special place in a lot of people's heart. And there's probably a lot of even non-sports dynamics that go into that I guess. But she's she's she's beloved here When when she Rhonda as you alluded to you know they? They had a parade for they. They they had a big party. Down at civic laws in downtown Albuquerque and There there could be some different emotions in my mind with this I I have a daughter just loves loves holly home and You know growing up in and she. She doesn't know what Paul even does. I don't even think she realizes all he Is is a fighter and and and does that she does now. But when when Holly- beat Rhonda She just knew man that wholly owned she's from here and and that daughter also has another interesting connection that I think we'll probably touch on with with John Jones. Yeah and his daughter It's fascinating fascinating to watch the holly home part of Albuquerque It's she's beloved. She can do no wrong she. She certainly carries herself in the way that that brings a lot. How does that on and people that may not even like fighting or or not? Pay attention to it She certainly brings out something I think and people that That just makes it or easy to like. It's amazing. I walked off the air plane on Thursday night at the Albuquerque Airport and they call it a son by the way. Why do they call it? A some port in on the airport without getting too off track annoy born and raised in New Mexico. I I couldn't even tell you. Okay it's It's interesting but that's cool support school And is a big kind of painting of Holly Homerun as you walk off off the plane that this At this one restaurant over there which then came to find out that her agent Len FRESCA's owns and now makes more sense. But I don't think anyone bats an eye because of the reasons that you just laid out. So how does Albuquerque feel about John. Jones it's different. That's for sure I don't think they're looking to Mexico's. A prideful Michael State. A lot of states are I get that but New Mexico Not a lot of money A lot of people have grown up here with families you know. Years and years and hundreds of years for for a lot of families here Very prideful state. We we give Colorado to the north a lot of grief when they think they're chilies better than ours and we give Texas you know to the East a lot of grief when they spell chilly with an eye because they don't even know real chilly as anybody. Listening should know is is the green and red peppers and it's spelled with an and espn just so you know it's not chilly tonight. At the end we we get mad about things like that we get mad about people coming in and taking shots at our athletes and our people and and this and that and You know holly always one of ours and John Jones the guy who came from another state and moved here and has has had an interesting as you know well far better you know more documented than than I could ever do it the even at the Journal because I'm primarily fight fighter Our reporter reporter. I'm sorry he his his rise to success has had all those kind of sidebar moments that have made New Mexico. I think at times is reluctant to embrace him This is a state that loves its fighting. It's a combat state. It's a fight state. It loves fighters and Johnny Tapia Is the there's parks here in Albuquerque named after Johnny Tapia and the troubles and tribulations top you went through in in some respects people could argue. Oh you are are worse than what John both were destructive both were had self destructive moments and tendencies with with alcohol abuse or drug. You you know issues and stuff like that but but Johnny I think was always embraced a little bit more because he was from here and he was one of our own. But you know Johnny also did prison time. Johnny also had a history of domestic violence and stuff like that. So it's interesting that he's so beloved here John. There was a reluctance to embrace them. But I we'll see this don hasn't gone anywhere after the hit and run which was years ago now several years ago anyway he could have easily gone back to New York he could have easily just come here in training like a lot of fighters do there are a lot of fighters that have come through the the Jackson wing doors that that do their camp here and then go back home which is fine. Everybody's from somewhere you you know. Everybody lives somewhere but John is chosen to make his life here he he lives here doesn't just parachute in for camps. This is where he lives now and I think It it might have taken a while but I really do think John Jones is starting to become embraced a lot more by this community and I I think that he probably slowed that progress down himself with all these issues but I I do think New Mexico starting to embrace down Jones a lot more than I would have said just a few years ago. was there feeling two thousand fifteen sixteen seventeen in in the midst of that really bad stretch starting with the the hit and run and then the other legal issues the PD issues of what is their feeling amongst the community like we kind of just want this guy to leave. He's he's misrepresenting us. Yes I absolutely. There was in fact. I think I I can't remember the exact language but the we had a call him in our paper and the Albuquerque Journal and then of course calms Can come from all different perspectives and opinions. But we had to call them in our favorite with somebody basically saying look. You're embarrassing our state. And if you're not one of those things you don't get to embarrass our state like that and Jackson wink should should cut ties with you and it wasn't something I wrote. I I sort of have a unique different perspective respective on John. I think that I there may be a soft spot. And maybe even to a certain extent a blind spot because Our daughters went to school together and and and that experience as sort of maybe created a different perspective in my mind. John But Yeah absolutely there. Were people saying John Enough. Look menu embarrassed our state enough. You don't get to come in from some other state and and make New Mexico look bad by doing this and there were people saying such things. I don't think a lot of that or people that are around the training that he does and and I know that he lives here year. Round that he wasn't just kind of parachuting in and dropping in for camps like he does make his home here and I don't think those opinions were necessarily shared by people who know him and as you you know and and despite community look John's polarizing guy and his sincerity is in question all the time. People always wonder. Is he being even being honest. Right now is he. Is Everything everything so calculated because frankly comes across it so So I think people have a hard time trusting him but the guy is a new Mexican. At this point. He's lived here long. Enough has been spent a decade raising his family. Here this is. His daughters are growing up in Albuquerque schools. And at some point you become a new Mexican and I think John Is there and I think the community unity is accepting that. But I'll tell you a few years ago. There were more than a few that were like. Look man just get out of here. You're you're not one of us and you're embarrassing us. Wow you know it's interesting I'm just coming from a school play. Excuse me that my son had and You know so when you talk about you know having a daughter in the same classes. His you get to AC- parents in a different light. Did you get to see a different side of John Jones. Like would he come to these school functions. Would you see in there. And he's just a regular guy. Does everyone treat him differently. first of all both My daughter you know full disclosure told the story. There's a few people publicly so it's not some big secret but My daughter and his daughter were really good friends in kindergarten and first grade. Same Age Actually my daughter's a little younger He was Saint Saint Grades And then they went into a different school after. I think first grade but Yeah I mean Jesse. And and their daughters are still to this day friends with my daughter in the seat. See other target I know my wife and daughter saw them. Just I think just last week or or a couple of weeks ago now at target and talk forever so I I remember when when our daughter's in school first of all in kindergarten or as a group of four girls Did talent show together and one was johns. All this daughter and one was my daughter and We you know we have this picture of them at the talent show and John's daughters tall and my daughter looks a lot more like a sports writer. Couldn't do any sports. They're gonna they can you ever you ever WanNa be humbled. Let me tell you man. Just go go watch you know your daughter play tag recess Don Jones dollars man. I did not give you a full deck of cards to play with like she My daughter knows no different she. She doesn't realize that. But it's funny because I I'm sitting here writing in the sports sports section every day about athletes and in this town and this was really the first time I I had a connection beyond just me writing about them. I really you try. And take an approach to tell stories as opposed to tell what happened in a game or in a fight or whatever you know this is two thousand twenty and at this point people can look on their phone and see the score of the game. We'll see WHO WANNA fight. You're trying to tell the stories of these people and I. I really think about four or five years ago when they were in school together I kind of took on a whole different sprint understanding or appreciated maybe or or just an awareness of these are people because I saw John Look Desi took the kids to school most host every morning that there were probably on different schedules but I would take my daughter to school one morning afternoon figuring out how to even put her hair in a ponytail and I remember thinking man. I'm Jones this guy on this pay per view right here is doing the same thing you know. Come Monday morning. He's probably trying to figure out how to put his daughter's hair in the ponytail. And I don't know if any of that's true or not but I remember thinking those thoughts lots and maybe giving him a little bit more benefit of the doubt and I remember going to like a dance that the the elementary school had for you know very informal. It wasn't like some some big dressed up kinda prompting that dance for all grades and and Don was there and and as far as how other people treat him I remember people you know wanting his time and taking him away from the dance You know the parents are in their kind chaperoning. Just watching their kids dance like crazy and in this room and and and Everybody wanted a piece of John's time so that that I remember being difficult to watch because he wasn't sitting there enjoying the moment quite as all the other currents work And then I think I've told you a so this other story right after Holly beat Rhonda In Australia that was in November November of what was that fifteen. I think he doesn't fifteen right So that was November. And I remember around that time. I'm sitting at a tiny table and a tiny chair for thinks. Elementary School thanksgiving lunch with our kids. You know parents get invited to do those Thanksgiving meals. And I'm sitting there with John and his daughter's sitting there at the table with me and my daughter and we're sitting there talking a few days after the fact I believe it was about about Holly Ali home. Who He loves? Just a sister him here in Albuquerque and he he believes holly and I'm talking to John Jones about the fight that holly just had with Rhonda Rousey which is an experienced is that obviously is pretty unique. I think the people all our kids around at a very unguarded situation that John had and he he he wasn't on you know he wasn't when when you interview 'em or I interview him or anybody interviews them or cameras around. He's on. He tries to to be very guarded and protected and all that but around his kids I just saw different guy a little bit and and it wasn't that he was much different But you could just tell. He's he's not thinking as much about how to be calculated about what to say and I think since then I I probably give him the benefit of the doubt maybe More than than most people around here but what I what I will say is over the last few years the guy gets out in community and I I really think he's. He's a part of New Mexico. And a part of Albuquerque as much as just about anybody at this point and and I think he wants to help this community I. I don't know if you always always knew how to manifest that in into action. But I think he's now starting to get a little more organized with all that and I think he is starting to do things in the community that that will make New Mexico embrace them even more. I think holly a whole `nother level and that's another story but I do think New Mexico's starting embraced on a lot more than they ever did. And you had that great seen During Christmas where he rented this big truck and gave out coats and whatnot so it was good to see him do that and it does seem to me at least like he really wants to be a part of the community and wants the community Munib to be proud of him and last year was an interesting one because first half of the year like he's he's active he's winning fights and all that stuff and you know he's fighting on international fight week and I think that's symbolic because Dana White at one point was very mad at him and said he'd never headline a show with him ever again so that's great and then literally a couple of weeks later we get this story about you. Know this this This incident at Gentlemen's Club and they couldn't find him. And we come to find out you know several months later. He pleads no contest and this is kind of I I almost feel like the community is numb to it. Like if it's another fighter it's a big deal but when it's John it's like this is just another thing. I'm wondering in in Albuquerque. When that that story came out? Was It really big deal. Like Oh God here we go again. Or are the residents of Albuquerque and New Mexico are they just Kinda numb to it as well and it's no longer longer big thing when he's in trouble. No I think they you know there's there's probably a a a certain amount of numbness to it but no still still made read the news on all the TV stations here and certainly in our paper and it was more of the same and some people's mind and and some IRO too. But I do think that was one that from the start start Maybe people either didn't pay close attention to it at certainly the the the hit and run. Or maybe maybe they just didn't care as much that one didn't have the have the traction that the past incidents did which which was interesting because Looking in this modern age of of social media. Everybody I think follows stuff like crimes or or allegations like that a little bit more sports figures than than ever before which is going back to Johnny toppy I if he grew up the Social Media Age who knows how beloved he would be in. New Mexico It could have been totally different story. But I think the the the John Jones Situation at the gentlemen's Club At. TV's here in Albuquerque I don't think people either cared as much about or maybe they had become numb to it. Because it didn't it wasn't just a blip on the radar but it didn't have the traction in terms of of interest or coverage here that that the other cases did so. I don't know what that speaks speaks to. I don't know if that's a We don't care At this point. Just 'cause we're we're told we numb to it or they just people just didn't think that was a story or a case or an allegation allegation that had legs to it that maybe the other ones did so here. We are talking on a Wednesday before one of his fights and I still feel like it's a big deal when he fights arguably the greatest just ever and like I said at the top PECAN history on Saturday. It's still feels special when you get to see him. Fight because honestly who knows how long will get to see him fight especially at the top in his prime. How how big of a deal on the sports scene? I know you say that you know isn't necessarily your beat per se but in the newsroom in the community how big give a deal. Is it when John Jones is fighting. How big a deal is it right now? Three days before the fight. It's big I mean he he'll be it'll be on the front of our sports sections that you know the rest of the week. He's already been there I I think John Jones still moves the needle here. I think the UFC recognizes that. I I think I mentioned that a few weeks back to the. US always been very kind. Frankly to the Albuquerque Journal and the Albuquerque media market in general because per capita one of the best pay per view buys citizen in the country and in the world. Probably we For that matter it has always been albuquerque. Now we're we're not a huge population base. But like I said per capita people by fights here and and that goes for boxing certainly But with the Jackson wing you know the rise of Jackson Wing through the years that that certainly translated to to MMA buys as well so this this is a community that loves its fights and this is a community that certainly recognizes greatness in combat sports and and John Jones that so yeah. It's a big deal. There will be watched parties. Ladies there will be bars and and even local casino casinos right out on the outskirts of town anyway That that sell out theaters bars for for John. John Jones fights now again. The holy fights always pack the place and and do great too but John will have watch parties. All over town from people here albuquerque that that no no greatness and no John is that and when people see him around town when people talk to him when people talk about about him you get the sense slowly but surely that they're starting to believe he's a changed man that the troubles are behind him or is it kind of a wait and see approach at this point. You know what's interesting for first of all I don't know I do see him In the community Equa- he's he doesn't hide. He goes out to the grocery store he he goes out to stores and go yeah. I cover primarily low basketball. which is a big deal here in Albuquerque and he goes to the Games and and get cheered wildly? People love him and and I don't think first of all I don't think people that do hate him or do have a problem with them or are going to go up in public and say anything about it. There might be some of that maybe embar scenes or something like that which she tends to as far as I'm told Avoid a little bit more than he ever didn't live there. There might be some people that want peace of in those kind of settings. But you know he's going out to the grocery store he's going out in the community. He's doing things that people go up and hug him and say. Hey Champ whatever all those kinds of things I think in those settings he's he's he's really embraced but I don't know to your to your question about our people in this. Wait and see mode. I think there might be a motive like that's that's John at this point and and and some people just don't care some people love him anyway. You know that's that's where I think. Maybe the evolution of of Albuquerque embracing John is is that you know a why wha- a lot like johnny top you like we get he has warts and we get he has flaws and and he certainly hasn't ever denied that he's no perfect person but I I think there's an awareness maybe an acceptance of this guy is thirty two years old and and through. His twenties made a lot of stupid decisions and mistakes in his life. Is that the. We're we're big time not just minor mistakes but he made some pretty major mistakes that were embarrassing to him and maybe embarrassing a little bit to the community but I think people understand this this guy you know we we just accept that that that is the guy who's now trying to better himself whether or not you believe he is trying to better himself is up to you but I. I think that this community is one now that that embraces the fact that he's he's local champion and he's doing things in this community and that goes a long way he's not just hiding out you know in his house somewhere and he's not flying out after camps. This guy's doing the coach thing over the winter this guy helps. He does a lot of help with with homeless people in the downtown area and stuff like that and and I do think that his mom's influence sort of guides him down this path where he wants to do something. I just don't know if you always understood how to how to do that and I think that there's there's a lot to be said for the acceptance. He's starting to get now. I think over the last several years in fact I'm in New Mexico. Just just because he does the right things here in the community. I'm not talking about the fight scene and and some of the things. He says that that people still attack all the time in terms terms of piping up a fight or or you know his his social media interactions with people. I'm just talking about here in this community. He's starting to do the right thing. That people I think are recognizing fascinating insight insight Jeff. I really appreciated his twitter. Handle by the way is at G. E. O. F. F. G. R. A. M. M. E. R.. Jeff Grammar of the Albuquerque Journal. I really appreciate you come on great to have you on the show again and thanks for taking out some time. I know you guys are busy over there so we really appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you to I want to pick your brain sometime about. Maybe the outside view of Albuquerque and the enemy seen Jackson Link so anytime I'm kind of I'm giving you this perspective. Pick your brain sometime about your perspective to anytime. I'd love love that we'll talk soon. Are there is Jeff Grammar of the Albuquerque Journal. Great Perspective on John Jones and the way he is viewed in his adopted home state of of New Mexico currently resides Albuquerque. Of course trains out of there as well now Very excited about our next guest. In fact I am somewhat embarrassed that this is the first time that we speak. I think for years I checked my my my text messages more than four years. It's it's very embarrassing. He is an absolute legend of the game. And when I happened to stumble upon the in fact he was training dominant Greys for this fight. I knew I wanted to talk to him about this fight. He is the one and only Dan Henderson. And he's kind enough to join us on this Wednesday morning in California Dan. Dan How are you. I'm great how you doing long time. No speak Dan how's life. Oh Life's good just Stand pretty busy and plugging away. What is what is busy mean to you? What are you up to these days? Well I've been obviously I have my jam and Coaching Ring and and have my kids that that keep me a little bit busy but I've also been working on a project. I'm I'm putting in the building next door door to my gym is a Big Restaurant Brewery. distillery Oh wow okay so retirement life treating you while you're happy with it Yeah I can't complain landed all just You know I'm I'm enjoying life for sure. Do you ever get the itch. Sometimes I miss it one more fight Not Really Eh. You know maybe I missed the competition a little bit but not the preparation restore. How's the body holding up physically A body feels good. I mean my body was fine when I retired. I it just That was more about not recovering as well as I I used to and and having to spend a lot more time laying on the couch after practice and not spending time with the family right Well it's great to have you on and it's good timing the of course True or false. You have been working with Dominic right leading up to this fight Yeah his last Two or three training camps are between fights also he comes down about once sometimes twice a week. Mostly come down and spar with the guys at my gym so this isn't the first camp that you work work with him. It's been two or three say. Yeah Yeah I think Yeah definitely for obedience and and and Wiedeman has improved a lot since you started working with him. And if so in what capacity Well I don't know you could accredit that to me but yeah he'd definitely he's young and he's athletic and he really is Loves the sport enough so listen to people and learn he's very coach -able and and You know definitely takes it all and soaks it in and works on new things. News and Definitely tried to improve himself. He's relatively young and the game went. When you found out that he'd be fighting John Jones? Did you think that this was the right time to do ed or did you think it was a little too soon. Why are you put me on the spot like that? Initially I thought it was a little let you send I. I mean I would have preferred him to to kind of get maybe one or two more fights in and and You know a little more experience. It's but you during this training camp I think I definitely have changed my my thoughts on that and and you know I definitely think He's he's GonNa Surprise John Jones for sure a couple of things that John is said about him that I want to get your take on the I. Was You know when people fight him. I'm just getting to the fight in his mind. Is the celebration rate you. You're so taken by the moment. It's such a big deal and then of course he's been there so many times in the past. This is old hat it for him. Do you get the sense from dominic that he's just kind of happy to be there and is there any concern that the moment you've been on this stage many times before as much as anyone is there or any concern that the moment will be too big for him No I don't think so. I mean that's one thing about dominic is You know you have certain guys that that look a certain way in practice and training and and and then they go out into a competition and and and don't perform the way they should or could Or have potential to do and and dominic one of the ones that are is pretty much the opposite he he looks pretty good in training. And and You're pretty confident with it. But he always performs even higher and higher level and and definitely put all out there and you know so mentally I think He's always ready to fight in always ready to perform and do what he's supposed to. I do follow the game plan. You know since I've been around women and watching them in practice and Kinda helped formulate a game plan he's it is really Calls it well and and their coach so you know I think mentally i. I don't think that'll be an issue issue. But yes I've seen that not just against Jon Jones but against other fighters as well that that people get out there get in in the cage with them and all of a sudden you know Kinda don't perform the way they should or could. John said something a couple of times at the first press conference that they had in mid December Essentially saying he only has a left hand. We've watched footage is just a left hand. Left hand left hand. If I could avoid that I'll I'll be fine. And when he said that I was wondering if Dominic or or the team would go back and be like all right now. We're just going to have to work out something else or maybe it's mind games on his part. He is concerned about our left hand and wants us to work on something else so that we don't use the left hand. How did you guys take the fact that he kept bringing that up You know I I honestly don't pay attention to a lot of the press conferences and stuff normal Dan. I thought you love that stuff there so this is the first. I'm hearing of it. Oh well I just think it would. We didn't even care what John Jones. Thanks we you know it's more about prepping and your own game plan and making sure that You know dominant controls the fight and fight where he wants it to go and not let John Jones control the pace so I I think You know obviously because John knows that dominic has left and that doesn't mean he's not going to throw the left hand I I mean I've been hearing that for for years about myself and my right hand so it doesn't do me any good not to try to throw it and typically still land so so you know I think dominic has a lot more tools than what John Jones gives them credit for You know which is definitely the dominates advantage in your opinion. What is the key to defeating John? Jones what do you have to do in this fight especially early to dictate the pace I oh I think I think With anybody they just need to Kinda not let John. Jones control the pace and not let John Jones You know stand there and pick you apart and and put the fight where he wanted to be. You gotTa Kinda make him uncomfortable make him well test is cardio a little bit and push the pace Without obviously walking into something dumb but you know just kind of stay in his face and make them fight you. There is some kind of theory out there. There are some people who believe that he's actually slowing down that he hasn't looked as impressive as of late. He didn't finish Santos. People were booing. IMP didn't show killer instinct and let Anthony Smith Hang around as well in their in their fight back in March. Do you subscribe to that notion as well do you. You think that he has kind of slowed down a little bit and this is the perfect time to pick him off. Well I I definitely think that Physically and you know I guess that that accounts for looking how he fights as well he definitely hasn't looked the SAM since his last Positive drug tests he definitely Doesn't WanNa get popped again and you know it's noticeable. I think in his performance so you do believe that he was using when he was on top. You're absolutely okay. Well there's some people believe You know is a sexual handsome Intel tail and it was a mistake but you this you don't get you. Don't get two or three times right. He's he just You Know Kinda got gotTa gifting and a slap on the wrist. I don't think anyone else Would have been so lenient Do you think that there is a noticeable difference in his fighting ability now or is it just the body I think his his cardio isn't what it used to be. Yeah I think yeah especially since Someone in the Industry Kinda got popped for for EPO. Ah that might be a concern. And it's a noticeable difference You know among other things but I just think He's kind of playing on a level playing field a little more now and you know I it. It shows. There's also a theory out there that he struggles against taller fighters right Dominic Reyes talk fighters six foot four. I mean he could hang with him as far as the reach is concerned as far as the. Hi this concern. Do you believe that to be true as well I think a lot of a lot of the taller fighters out. There have trouble with other taller fighters they get kind of been bad habits abets. Because they're they're hard to get get touched. Sometimes you know that they can kind of lean back and get their hat out of the way pretty easy. We're not keep their hands up in the right way and and Just not be as defensive as you in the right way that shorter guy normally has to do. But you know with that being said I think You Know He. He has trouble with a few things. Taller guys are one of them and and fighting backwards is definitely one of them. Well now will you be in his corner on Saturday. No I will not I'M GONNA be watching that on TV and hanging out at at home with the kids so But I'm pretty excited about it. was there any discussion of you. Cornering hiring him. I'm not really not a whole lot. I mean. He has his His other coaches that he's had for a while and I'm just there to help out and you know he's getting me motivated to Try to stay in shape a little bit too Not Get so chubby. So Oh I've been in their sparring with him about once a week for the last two or three training camps and it's it's good so other than I need to get out there and help Sam a little more now to he was gonNA fight coming up so I'm GonNa try to keep that going with a second. You're actually sparring with him. Yeah really yeah. How many rounds Typically it's about one with him he you know he's got a few guys is in there so I'll go around with them and I go with other guys do Sam some of our other guys that are coming up forty nine years young. Dan Henderson sparring with number one contender attending the light heavyweight division. That's amazing well done. Yeah I suck air a little bit but I don't get tired. I do fine. Let me ask you how often do you about you have C. One fifty one and the opportunity. That was there. You could have been the guy to beat John Jones you land that h-bomb this whole thing is not aww anymore. Well I typically think about it very often but when the subject does come up. It does bummed me out that I didn't get that opportunity because I know in my heart and one hundred percent. I would've beat them up. I mean I was the most ready for for that fight than I had ever been in my life. So and You know it's unfortunate but you know you can't Can't can't live your life on the whatevs right would you take. What would it like? Maybe soften that blow a little bit take some solace in the fact that you will have prepared the guy I to be John Jones. I know it doesn't take that opportunity. You wanted to do yourself but it would be quite the story. If in the end you prepared the guy to beat them You know I I just hope the best for Dominic. It's nothing about me and it's not gonna make me feel vindicated it any other way but you know I just wish the best for Dominic and he works hard and and he's a good kid and very athletic and I think he's ready ready to take on the The role of being the champ. Do you have a prediction. You foresee particular way that this fight ends. Well no I mean. Obviously Dominic is proven that that he's able to not guys out in that first round But you know I think I think he's got a pretty good chance of Beaten Jones up In in maybe around the fourth or fifth round his his cardio's pretty damn good interesting interesting. Okay Dan I'm just wondering. Do you still watch him a mayor. You Still Fan of the sport. Are you still in tune with what's going on or have you taken a bit of a breakdown retirement Ah I do not watch as much as I used to You know it's a little bit more difficult to watch sometimes with everything streaming online now and I definitely still watch certain fights. I don't know how the fighters out there. Now there's A. There's so many new guys and I've tried to keep track of Some of them you know between seeing belot orders one or two fights. It's every week right. Yeah there is a lot. It's it's changed a lot since you around but I'm happy to hear that you're still involved in the sport and and when I saw this I saw particular picture of you and Joe Stevenson an exit dominant like wow this is really cool and Cool story considering your ties to to John in the past. I appreciate you doing this. Dan I was. I was really happy that you wrote back to me. Sometimes it's hit or miss. I'm not sure I didn't know if that was still your your same old phone number from all those years ago so great to hear from you. Great to talk to you and good luck to you in the team by the Saturday. Good luck to you in retirement and everything that you're doing back home as far as your your businesses are concerned more. I will thank you create it anytime. Let me know all right. Thank you so much theory. Theory is the one and only Dan Henderson. How cool is that? Dan Hendel Henderson. Absolute legend of the game. And I hope that you newer fans know about what that man is all about and what he did in the sport and the moment said he had and the victories that he had in the big fights that he was a apart and he wasn't able to fight John on jumped. Never got that opportunity. That you've see fifty one and that was a shame but this man has had his fair share of legendary nights in the sport and really great to hear from him again and to catch up again again and talk about this big fight. So that's the perspective. As far as John Jones is concerned in Albuquerque. That's the dominant greys perspective. Now let's get a little taste of the scene in h town right right now. Let's say hello to my old pal marker money who is on location in clutch city as we speak and true or false mark. This is your first time name in the Great State of Texas. Is that accurate. That would be false aerial. I have been to sexists before but I've never been to the great city of Houston the first time in Houston. I've been to Dallas. Okay I've been to San Antonio Okay Cub Swanson versus Jeremy Stevens Card way back one. Why I went to that one I did? I've not been days now. Why did I go to that one? This is my job aerial. God coats wants Jeremy Stevens fight night. Kurt was a Banger. You're okay fine bluster this during your Fox days. Wasn't it correct. All right sense now makes sense okay. For some reason I thought you said first time in Texas now it makes a lot more sense I mean in Houston h town clutch city. What do you think of it? So far what is had some chicken and Waffles from the breakfast club recommended me by. UFC matchmaker maker ordinary mic maynard. Yes and it was fantastic. Wow fantastic stuff. Yeah so so far. So Oh good I would say any kind of Buzzer a little too little too early for that a little too early. I I've spoken to some Uber and lift drivers whereas L. David none of them were aware that there was a UFC on Saturday although one of them was a UFC fan. But he didn't see here on Saturday. That's not really a great sign. Yeah Wednesday's still early Thursday night. Friday's when you really start to get the you know the sense of how excited the market is and how how big of a deal. This is there. Do you do share my sentiment here. Even though it may not be the biggest name opponent anytime John Jones fights feels a little more special right. It just feels different Brent and especially this one. He's on the verge of making history he can win fourteen fourteen fights for for for a UFC title. That's a big deal but it just has a bit of a different buzz to who at least for me personally how about you. I've I've always felt that way going back years Iro because we don't want to say we don't often see greatness in the sport because we do see greatness and I've made fairly often but we have never seen the greatness that that John Jones has brought to the Octagon I. That's I mean to me. That's that's a a a plain fact. It's indisputable he is. He's the greatest fighter of all time. Say what you will about drug test failures. I know there are other fighters who have a lot of accolades but I for for my money. It's John Jones and it and it has been for quite some time and I cherish every opportunity to see him fight because he is a true master Sir of his craft and the guy has never truly been beaten is only lost by disqualification. And Look I mean this may be. I don't know if this is a hot taker. It's not but eventually John Jones will probably lose a fight so I mean during this time where we're watching him and cherishing the fact that he's one of the greatest the greatest of all time something in the back of your mind is like is this going to be the time when he finally gets broken. It's been forever. He's never lost really two thousand nine. What's his only real? I mean his only quote Unquote Lost Matt. Hamill but I mean I think the time. The time is ticking. Getting a little bit older. I don't know I don't know if it's going to happen on Saturday but I mean right am I crazy to think that conventionally every item may fight or does actually the fight no absolutely I mean maybe not made off. He's not trending but yes everyone at some drew. She has two losses and didn't lose for a very long time two thousand nine. I've taught my head. I think was his last loss. So yes absolutely And I still like I find it interesting having John Jones Card right after a conor McGregor card back to back pay per views because here's connor. Who is not a champion? Who isn't at least right now considered one of the best ever and and maybe that's wrong? Maybe that's right who knows But the biggest star in the sport the biggest draw yesterday we get information from. CEO of Disney. Bob Eiger about how great that paper you did and then you have John. Jones who in many people's eyes is the greatest ever. WHO's on the verge of all kinds of history and all this stuff and and like even when I read the comments about my interview with him people are like This guy cheater like I just feel like I don't know the fans have a very strange relationship towards a Mike even when he says the storm is behind me. No one believes him right or ninety. Five percent of the people. Don't believe him. I don't know if they're numb to him. Or maybe they're just kind of tired of the same old stories or I'm back and I've learned from my mistakes but I do feel like the fans are reluctant to truly get behind. You get that feeling as well I mean I think I think that's been one of the stories of John's career. I don't I don't know if he's ever really had an NBA fan by fan base completely behind him and he has not been able to drum trauma that that casual fan support. That conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey was able to drum up for themselves for for whatever reason I mean there are reasons. You could say that that John Jones for to do that. I think that right now for him I think the problem. I mean it's not really a problem is that he doesn't have. He doesn't have a great foil. He had it in Dan Cornmeal. It seems like that rivalry is now gone and done and right now you know he. He'd beat thous enter Gustafsen Banana Smith does. These aren't these aren't big names or not they're not. I don't think people see them as credible rivals for one of the greatest of all time and John Anjan whereas Dan Cormier was that maybe a Rashad Evans was that they had that personal feud the rampage Jackson they had there. was that personal thing. There there isn't really anyone who people kind of put right there with with Jones. And maybe maybe that'll be next. Maybe that'll be after this but I think he needs that right now for you know the the the more casualties to kind of connect with him again. If he wins on Saturday do you think is next. Fight is at heavyweight. I do unless there's some kind of compelling fight for him that we that doesn't make sense. That is not apparent right. Now Al going into this fight against racist if that makes any sense I think I think it will be heavyweight You know unless Israel out of Sonya is GONNA move up to light-heavyweight next after the Romero fighting and fight Jones. I don't know that's realistic. I don't think it is but yeah. I think that I think Jones needs something I think he knows it too. I think the AFC he knows it all all due respect. I'm GonNa Courageous and you know we could be talking about Tom. Accra his beating beating John Jones. Incredible title defence streak on Saturday but as of right. Now if you're asking me about the future of John's and what can you do to kind of get hot again. In terms arms of life heavyweight is probably one of those things. So here's how I mapped out this morning on. ESPN DOT COM. If he wins on Saturday I say the he comes back very quickly. May or June probably June because as the Brazil pay per view and fights the winner of Corey Anderson versus the I'm Buffalo. It's that's in seven days and so the timing is perfect and really if you look at the division now that Johnnie Walker loss those are really the last two guys left that can make seeks some kind of case and especially Anderson. WHO's been poking him in been very vocal if he wins and especially if he wins impressively which I would I would suggest to him to try to win decisively acidly so that everyone's kind of clamoring for you to fight you take that fight and buy yourself some time for the UFC? BOOKSTAVER SAYS DC three. Get that over and done with hopefully July August September so and then try to make your heavyweight debut Madison Square Garden November end the year with three fights and end the year fighting in the heavyweight division. I feel like that would be the perfect twenty twenty for John Jones. I mean all of that sounds great on paper. I mean there's there's so many question marks though especially with St Pe- CPA and DC though right right but we don't win. It's going to happen and could he could. He I mean is is John Jones at MSG in November against the wonder of that fight realistic. We don't don't know enough is going to be in July August September But also of DC wins. He may vacate the title and just retire. Right right. which would be kind of the shame? Because we'd be on the verge of one of the biggest ever right and I wonder and I wonder how that would would would play out. It's going to be interesting. I mean so. They need to do Jones in Ghana at MSG. I met. That'll be massive. That will be massive. I think John Funding anyone at heavyweight would be of great interest and then the other thing of course is like Kenny. Stay at a trouble double for a whole year. The first half of twenty nine thousand nine was great and then we had the incident at the Gentlemen's Club which was not great. And we thought maybe that we'd be back to the old John Jones and he to have avoided any serious repercussions there an out here. He is fighting in February. And I almost feel bad talking about this in this way because I really do. I feel like dominant Greys isn't getting enough respect. Like I think he has a shot. Do I think he'll pull off the upset. I mean it's still John Jones and he hasn't given us much indication that he is a lesser fighter than once was. I know that's kind of a theme going into this fight still John Joe's do give dominic chance or do you think that this is somewhat of a easy pick. I guess I give them a chance. I certainly anyone a chance in the. UFC everyone is everyone is pretty elite in the AFC. And he's he's served his shot at the title. It's going to be hard. It's going to be a hard road for him because I mean on paper. It seems like Jones has every the advantage outside of maybe just a power advantage. People have talked about Racists kicks kicks but we're talking about wrestling talking about doc rob we're talking about just seasoning just just experience level at the very highest point of UFC and Jones has that in spades. So yeah the shot but it certainly seemed like the he's behind the eight ball going on on many many levels. Do you get the sense. This is something that John is brought up that like. He's just happy to be there. You're like you know you're in front of him right. You were at the scrum in in La just last week less than a week ago talking about it. He's taking pictures of himself on the the sportscenter marquee archy and for him just being here getting this title fight as his touchdown. Did you get the sense being in front of him that he's just happy to be there. I don't I don't I I feel like I look. I think he's someone who has been an athlete his entire life. He's been a competitor his entire life. And someone like that this this is his first. This is his first Rodeo. And I'm sure that when John Jones got his first title fight against Shogun would in Newark way back when in two thousand eleven he was doing the same thing as why taking a picture himself on the Marquee Marquee and and so on and so forth and now of course we know what happened from there. I don't think I don't think race is like that. I think that first of all it's this is not someone who's been who's been a journeyman who's been around to Kinda getting his courtesy title shot. This is a guy who's undefeated. He's he's a prospect that were gets overused but I mean he's undefeated Vida Guy. He's he's I think he's twenty nine or thirty. He's not he's he's fairly young still in his prime so I think that he is going out there with with the intention of winning and knocking off Johnson and by the way I feel like you know all all these conversations that people have about John John's nowadays I feel like people who you know. Forget just how damn good he has been and how and how damn consistent. He's been I mean he's been champion. I mean I know there are some starts and soft but for for I mean mean most accounts he has not. He has not lost height since he wanted to dozen eleven. I mean that's incredible Consistency yes amazing And I referenced that Photo in Toronto Verano before you have C. One twenty nine and he's on the stage with ESPN does a Aldo and dominic Crews and Anderson Silva. None of those guys are champions anymore and the majority of them are near title-fights oh Aldo somehow fighting for a belt in in May on a two fight losing streak but that's another story for another day it's really incredible and considering all the the the stuff that he has been through that he has put on himself the self inflicted wounds so to speak. It's incredible they still here. Chevy now this is a fun debate. That's come up this week and we talked about it on their own. The bad guys want to ask you. What would be a bigger upset in your mind? Raise beating Jones or Caitlyn Kagan beating Valentina Shevchenko for the women's One twenty-five okay. That's a good question I think I would. I would say race beating Jones just for the simple fact that Jones been doing it for so long long I mean again to me is the best of all time so it would be shocking. Victory for Ray who still slow kind of guy who was not well known own even MMA circles. So I think that will be bigger just on that scale of things although I mean go with so good. She's just not nearly as established Babushka as as a champion Jones. It so that's probably what I what I would. I think I think Shivshankar losing is a bigger deal. Honestly I think the gap between want to be a bigger deal big deal but it was more surprising result. I should say I understand. We're coming from because I think that goes as dominant dominant champion. But if you're if you're asking me who has. Who has the harder path of victory? I would probably say cave-in Kagan even though I think race also as a pretty hard pat the victory but but as far as the scope of it I think grasping Jones is a bigger upset in that in that way. Yeah a bigger story. Yesterday I shouldn't say bigger a deal per se But the gap is bigger. She's currently a plus seven fifty according to our stats and Info and just by the way was a plus eight hundred. got into title fight back. In June BECO was a plus eight fifty going into the Ronda. Rousey fight at at one nine other people that were plus eight hundred other title contenders intenders. That were plus eight hundred. Alexis Davis Against Ronda. Rousey Chris Rossouw against DJ Valerie Latour no against Rhonda. Excuse me against you NJ check on the Ronda Holly Home Card Deanna. Kuhn Kaya Against Chris Cyborg so those are a few other names and none of them one so this would be a pretty big deal in its zone rate and I mean I'm I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable saying that. Valentina Shevchenko's is one of the best women's women may fires of all time already. Yeah I'm already. I'm already uncomfortable saying that. So I mean certainly that would be a massive upset. I I'm comfortable look I. I don't know why it was such a big deal when the UFC split the men and women pound for pound list. I've always done it that way. But I would strongly argue that. She's one of the best fighters on the planet right now regardless of yesterday and I think argument are there. I don't I don't think I don't think. Many male fighters disagree. I mean just just like pound for pound technique for technique. Right I mean who who. ooh A better pure striker than Valentina. Shevchenko I mean. As far as just the technique goes as far as just you know her her ability in that way I I mean. It's it's hard to envision. I mean just just look at what amended Nunez did Chris. cyborg get the Holly Home and look at our fights against Valentina Shevchenko very different. Yes mark has a great story up on. ESPN DOT com slash may right now about the prefight nerves anxiety leading up to a big fight. It's a really great read. I I love this topic and I've been talking to a lot of fighters about it just spoke to Sergio. Pederson Eliot Marshall about it on on my show Monday As a little preview before or you go which store in particular. There's one that I'm thinking of right now. Just looking at the article that is just like wow. This is crazy statement. But which anecdote from from all these fighters and you spoke to an impressive list fighters Kamara Donald's Aronie and Caitlyn UK. Gin and wonderboy Thompson Darren telling their Muslim. There's just a bunch of guys yeah Is there one anecdote in particular that that really stuck with you there. There are so many good ones and I really can't. I can't thank all those fighters enough for opening up to me about some topic that is sensitive and not many people really want to talk about their security is like that leading into a very important event in their lives. I would say I would say Stephen Thompson probably I mean that stands out to me a lot I mean. He said that he wishes an asteroid. Royd it's you know the the arena. So he doesn't have to fight. I mean that's like a I mean it's it's it's funny I know. He watched a lot of animation. Like Dragon Ball Z. So maybe that that plays into that. But I'm Kaylin Kagan. You know saying that. He jokes every fight on the way to the all hope the car gets into a crash and and we don't have to. I'll have to fight that kind of stuff and then someone like just engage. You saying like I you know I feel absolutely nothing like this. Just he's just dead inside going zoo us to fight which maybe maybe not surprising for designates right. It's a really great reading another reason why I love him and may fight or so much. Because they're viewed as these tough strong wrong alpha males alpha females and yet they're so open to talking about their feelings and their fears and their anxiety leading up to these fights so it's a great juxtaposition there and This this story has it all so well on the story. I look forward to seeing you in in Houston tomorrow mark and I appreciate you taking some time out of your chicken and Waffles to join us this stuff. Thank you very much. All right there is Mark Romandie of ESPN setting the scene for UFC. Two forty seven. Houston I'll be there tomorrow. Thursday A to kick off our coverage at media day and then the winds on Friday and then of course the event also were having our prefight radio show four to six. PM EASTERN ON ESPN ESPN radio. They won't put that on the on the full screen during my Monday show but rest assured. I'll be taking your calls and we'll have some special guests join us as well but now everyone's favourite segment Sigmund of the week. Yes tease minimalist tip of the we closer. Hey I like that little shot. He took a corporate jake there. Well I mean how many times I've been doing this radio show for a little over a year now and I still can't get on the full screen I know no love for us in the audio business. It's amazing then you know these TV guy. Sometimes they have a little bit of A. I don't know they have a bit of an ego when it comes to what they do compared to the radio people and I like to try to bridge the gap by like everyone to be on the same team all in this together while trying to grow the sport of Emma may together here at ESPN. And so I feel like all platforms should be recognized everything that you just said. That is very much related to my minimalist tip of the week here I tell you. There's the synergy here so when I became a minimalist two three ish years ago I noticed it just became such a better person. My heart was more full. I started being nicer to everyone and brought more kindness into my life and in in the anime world. There's a lot of vitriol and all sports but in the world and in the online community there. There's a lot of hate going around and as a person who doesn't really like hate I. I like to spread the love. It made me think about this. So there's this theory out there. It is called the loving kindness theory and so what it is Ariel. Is that even. If you don't know a person if you've never come across a person in your life you've never met them. You just wish that person. The absolute best and I do this in several Instances in a day for example where I might walk by someone in the hall or have an exchange with someone whether that is a clerk or whether that is a customer service person on on the other end the line and after I'm done with that interaction with that person I decided to say to myself you know what I hope. That person has the best day ever that when that man or woman is driving home today that they're going home to you know to children to loving children a loving husband or wife and that there's going to have a great night out made me go to the movies or something like that. You just wish the absolute best upon other people that you don't even know and when I started doing that I started doing that at a point in my life where I was where I was not too a happy where where I need to make some changes but didn't know how and that was one of the first changes I made. I read that theory in a book. The loving kindness theory and I started adopting it and started wishing the best on people and and by wishing the best on other people my own experience of life started to improve. And so for anyone out there who you know tears other people down onto trying to make themselves feel better. How `Bout you build other people up to try to make yourself you about it? That works just as well love that it feels good to give people compliments. It feels good to boost people's confidence An end to make them feel good about themselves and I really do believe that I couldn't agree more when you put that. Positively I feel like the positivity comes towards you do whatever you WANNA call it. Good Karma whatever. I totally agree with that. One hundred percent by the way. I didn't even know that this was top. You never tell me what your topics are before the show but you feel full in the heart when you are good towards other people so yes amen preach. That's a great. I feel like that's a good one. If you're a minimalist or not like that's just that's that's just like a good person thing exactly exactly and I know you you may say. Oh you're supposed to tell us about how to get rid of things whatnot like no. That is the first step. People think minimalism Melissa. Is this radical way of being that you. Just sit on the floor with candles on no whites and you just have nothing in your home like no. That's not what minimalism is. The first of a minimum of embracing minimalism is. Yes getting rid of things and experiences and other things in your life that are that are detrimental. That don't make you better but beyond that once you once you remove things you start to make other changes in your life how to become a better person loving kindness theories one of those things that I adopt. Amen Now Along those lines I believe our our our review of the week is very positive as well. Not so much so over fiend. Seven one five year has a one star review. Wow and I'm happy that you chose a one star review this week because I don't want people to think that were just picking taking the five stars. I mean I'm not trying to encourage one-star reviews but you know we're we're fully transparent here. Sometimes you got to address the one stars Amen. So here we go last week. Aerial proudly boasted. How he inadvertently started the Jones Evans rivalry by making sure Joan saying he evans from his interview made it on the air? What Kawana never asked Jones? That question would Evans have left Jackson wink so quickly here. In Jones having no problem with fighting his mentor national television. We all can agree. Evans was never the same after you left Jackson wink only winning two fights after losing to Jones retiring on a five fight losing streak since then going Vegan growing dreadlocks and considering returning out welterweight wait organization. Are you happy aerial. I'm totally trolling hopes. GST on the pod you guys should have a third podcast. Forty five minute once on Fridays his re answer questions that our views in Kohl's respect. Wow I think we started out bad and then we ended in a great spot. This clearly is coming from a quote unquote casual Israel. Because if I would have done that interview back in two thousand eleven as John. Jones is preparing to fight Shokhin. Who for the belt with the whole Rashad Evans story kind of looming? Coming out there. He was the guy who was supposed to fight Shogun. The reason why Johnson's got that title fight is because Rishaad injured his knee and so Jones as awkward as it was replaced his mentor. And so if I would have done that interview and not ask the question I should have been fired like like like quite simply. I should have been. Let go that day. That was the most obvious of the questions to ask and that is why I was shocked that they didn't include it in the piece. The three minute piece that aired during the prefight refi shows so no. I'm not ashamed was I- boasting. I don't think it was boasting. I was telling the story about how this thing almost never happened. Because some guy some edit room I'm in your city didn't think that it was newsworthy. It was boasting eventually. Trust me it would come out the fact that Jones said it was an indication that they were already not on the best of terms because prior to that he never wanted to address this and neither did Rashad and moments after John beat Shogun at UC twenty eighth shot told me literally minutes later that he was done with Jackson wink and that he was moving on and going to train in Florida. Now he decide that right then and there no but you know that kind of sealed the deal after John won the fight and they all made money and they had a good time another. Actually I think in a pretty good spot. It's a chill out an boasting about the the divorce of a of a of a of a friendship. If you will. I thought it was crazy that they didn't include it in the peace and I saved it with twenty four hours left Arrow. I always appreciate your history lessons. Thank you is this is all pre my fan but koby interview this week. Oh yes I know you were I was thinking of you. I thought that we should have had a camera wherever you sit during the show. I have no idea where you are in some cave. Dungeon little studio closet Just you probably just clapping at all the crazy things that he was saying. I just love your reactions to when he says outlandish stuff. He goes on a rant last question about John Jones and his past. And you just say Koby welcome back. Yes well I mean what else. There's no other way to handle this then. I'll say this about Kobe. What you will? The man kept his word told me that he would come on the show. I he would talk to us. I it took some time name and some people are pointing to the fact that hey he was You know he was away for six weeks and he claims he didn't have a broken job but you know the typical recovery time for a broken jaws six weeks. Just relax with all your conspiracy theories all right. It's good to have them back. He makes things interesting and and now we'll see where he fits into the welterweight title picture. I don't know if he's going to get that immediate title shot or the rematch. I don't think it's going to happen. Given his relationship with you of seeking the fact that he wasn't the champion Challenger in the fight ended in the fifth round. But it's GonNa be interesting time. Does he fight someone else. Does he sit out and wait. I'm curious to see how it plays out but for now we are at a time. TST A tight ship. Troy is running a tight ship. In fact I'm running. A tight ship is up to run over to do err on the bad guy right now and then again later. Today I'm going to be on the World Kane show. What am I gonNA talk talk about? I'm going to try to throw in as many. MMA references throughout the show. Maybe even if it's just like subtle things like I'm not impressed by mookie. Betts performance it just little subtle things for all of us if you can find the Easter eggs if you will. I'm looking forward to that. That's going to be a lot of fun man Steven A.. Just gave me a thumbs up. You see that that's it's the kind of love we have great on that note even gave me a thumbs up through the window here. My Man Steven A.. Museveni together taken on all the haters combat as Bros.. Come at us. Okay Radha time. Thank you very much all our guest today. Thanks to all of you. Continuing to download rate subscribe review. All those things things have more and feel free to be generous with your five star reviews right five start up. We don't mind enough with one stars enough of the hatred the animosity the vitriol loving kindness. Yes Amen Thank you very much Jeff. Grammar great stuff great insight. Thank you very much. Dan Henderson the legend. TSE just learned to. He was fifteen minutes ago. I'm glad that he is starting to learn is ever made. History will be on the radio four to six. PM Eastern on Saturday got a ton coverage coming your way from Houston and of course. I'll be there with mark Monday Brenner. Komodo and our entire team for now though. We're out of time thank you for listening. Thank you for your support. I I love you I will talk to you from Houston take.

John John Johnny Bones Jones Albuquerque John Jones Dan Hendel Henderson Dominic Reyes Albuquerque Journal UFC New Mexico Don Jones ESPN Texas Dan New York City Albuquerque Airport Dan Henderson basketball Jeff Grammar Houston IRO
Fame - Is It A Worthwhile Pursuit? -Evan Safford

MinddogTV Your Mind's Best Friend

00:00 sec | 3 months ago

Fame - Is It A Worthwhile Pursuit? -Evan Safford

"What would you do to get famous? We'll talk about it on this episode of the mind. Okay TV podcast. And welcome my friends another episode of the Mind Dog TV podcast on Matt. Napa, thanks for coming. It's great to have you here for this afternoon edition on Saturday. We don't often do the afternoon edition on Saturday but we made a special exception in this case, my sponsors today. Audio books now dot com you know all all about audio books. Now Dot Com I've told you about them several times. You also know about the convenience of audio books and I don't have to go through that whole spiel again, just a fair to say that audio books are very convenient way to keep up with your reading and become more educated or. More entertaining through the are art form of literature. Now, what makes audio books now dot COM specialist price point simple as that. You can get audio books just about anywhere and you know about that. The differences price point or the books now dot com. Less expensive than any other audiobook service out there, and here's the thing in the description after the show there will be a link my special link you will get fifty percent off your first order whether that's a single book or a monthly. Plan throw audible. Now Dot Com I. Thank you for patronizing my sponsors. It means a lot to me keeps the show on Yeah My guest today has a story to tell He's an entertainer, EDM songwriter and music producer but his story is more about and what we're going to be talking about today is more about an incident he alleged happened to happen to him recently which he called. Gay Bashing Now I, think it's a semantic term but I think what? He's really describing as a hate crime an assault, and there is a difference between gay bashing hate crime and assault and gay bashing generally thought of as just verbal attack in mean mean. Talk about putting somebody down cyberbullying all kinds of stuff gay bashing is generally considered verbal and although it's wrong, it's not illegal hate crime on the other hand is a vicious physical attack on somebody and then assault and what he's describing to me sounds a lot more. Like. That So we're going to get to the bottom of his story and figure out exactly what happened to the details of it again hate crime and and that kind of stuff is something we vehemently are Wanna see stopped in his country and try to spread some education about various issues that might Might help deal with this problem because it becoming rampant problem intolerance and you know physical attacks in general adjust and balance is just a bad way to address issues. So we're GonNa talk about that right now. Please open your ears open minds and helped me welcome in Evans Affect from Albuquerque new. MEXICO EVAN WELCOME TO THE MIND TV. PODCAST. Thank you for having me what's the mask? You don't need that in in in your apartment to you. That just way of trying to vote states social distancing Gotcha. So. So as I mentioned you describe your your attack as gay bashing, but I, it's more of a hate crime murder salt the way you described it to me you realize what the difference is I mean wh in terms of gay bashing be more of a verbal thing and hate crime and assault being the actual physical altercation. We're GONNA hear counts from friends of mine who have. been. To this. Be To the part wearing where they're almost dead. And they call that gay bashing. So I mean I'm pretty sure that I guess gay bashing would be worse than a hate crime I'm not sure but I know that is definitely more verbal abuse. Hate crime is assault and the and you go to jail for that the absolutely So tell us what happened to you give me the the actual details of your Salt. Sure well come before I can get. You have salt I WANNA Kinda show won't. Viewers exactly where I was at my in my life point for this thing to happen you know. because. This time last year I had I had produced a series based on my real life experience while I was Hollywood. And when I did it I told myself if I. Was GonNa make a web series. I was GONNA I was Gonna go for the highest honor that you could possibly receive which was the Emmy Award so I did it last year campaign for to be nominated for an emmy and I really did that as a way to launch my music career. And it did and. The day before I had a got attacked I had the biggest day of my career because I had headlined the Very First Online Pride parade celebration in the nation. because. I'm sure back in April they had initially canceled because. Because they're did initially. I had that opportunity and literally the next day while I'm outside I'm walking my dog I have my back terms. I'm actually getting ready to rehearse because I had an actress. An after show to do that night for the parade and all the sudden, this big dogs are shifting my little dog and then I see the owner in the corner of my eye I think he's going to. Stop his big dog from you know killing my little dog but instead, just Bam Bam Bam three three shots McVeigh's. and then when I. was happening I look about him and he says to me he's like you should have stayed your gas inside he says. I left that it now because I've. I've gone through so much with this individual. He he lives on my same address. He's a neighbor of mine I never talked to him before this incident as I still have never really talked to. But. Yeah he had seen me out. China celebrate pride day before with my mom you know because I was I was the headliner. So it was my job to get people excited. I was painted head-to-toe hundred like I am right now you know, right? I guess in a sense, he left me open to be a target. but. How do you? How do you? What makes it open to being a target? Will because I be outside singing, you know I'd be outside I guess being slammed bland. I shoot a lot of videos sometimes, videos that shoot they can include like drag Queens Flamboyant people I myself the label, my sexuality. Hang out with people who are a part of the LGBTQ community. So flamboyant entertainers have been around now for forty years or more even long. I mean you can go back to boy George in the early eighties but even before him there were lots of flamboyant entertainers who went out in public and and entertained in public and did not get assaulted. So what I'm trying to understand, what makes it a target for something like this at this point now at twenty twenty So, let me tell you what the real kicker of this situation is He got former front teeth right and shifted the rest to the side so bad with only three hits that I had to remove all my keys. I. Am and I'm still my twenty s and to get them. To get the implants is GONNA BE THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS RIGHT So since it happened to me, I've been trying to get my local press to do a story about it because I'm just like you know if they tell tell my state of New Mexico what's happening they'll do a story on and then I'll be able to raise that money. You know what I mean no problem. A dollar about three weeks ago. They finally ran a story about a hate crime a hate crime that was committed on a restaurant and three hours they raised fifty thousand dollars but here we are three months since my attack and they won't. I have emails of them. You know timing on. Oh we'll get back to you. Well, this isn't that you know what I mean founder from the news stations to journalists, journalists who I have personal relationships with. And still just. So why do you? Why do you think that is what do you attribute there? To print your story. Is I say that it's still because of the Duckworth thinking in my state that has always been here when I left hell leg when I graduated high school. I remember how homophobe and just how how it was in the air just the way they've there's just this this of thinking you know what I mean, and there isn't oppression out here and that oppression keeps people in a very, very angry, very, very violent just like that Cata attacked me. Well let's changed a lot since I lived in New Mexico lived in New Mexico for quite some time and seventies and early eighties and it was very open and I knew probably at that time I would probably say one hundred gay people and they had no problems with it so you're saying. The atmosphere New Mexico is completely turned to one eighty since then. She's reliving in in Albuquerque. I I spent some time in Albuquerque lived in in eastern New Mexico for the most part But I, I have a lot of friends in Albuquerque and yes I spent a lot of time in Albuquerque. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever the area called like a war zone. Yes. That's crazy that it was still called. So long ago. They're still they're still these people out here who I think that Ah She once a Mexican families are really really against being gay I know there from. My own experience, but just like friends experiences so and sometimes it's like it's always like. Comes down to the whole argument about the Bible. So. But I. I know there was a huge Christian. It's part of is still part of the Bible belt or considered by the Bible Belt, a lot of it, and there is that a part of it as well So back to the assault Oh, did you get a guy get arrested? No you didn't. Did you quote Of course, I did. Went up to. Okay go ahead. I was just GonNa say I'm merely on my facebook live actually because I'm just like you know what? Fuck this I'm not GonNa go through this alone because I've been I've been attacked for. For my beliefs before. So I go on facebook live I, call the cops, and and like I, feel like immediately I told that I was victim of a hate crime they treated me differently. And just just on on Monday actually had court on the phone with the person who who had attacked me and the judge was only willing to give me on a twenty five feet restraining order from the guy and then and then I'm shaky almost holds me in contempt because she has the nerve to tell me well, if I find out that your. You make him break his restraining order on purpose I'm excuse me. When I was minding my own business and knocked my fucking keys out, you know like, were there witnesses? Now. So you had no witnesses were unfortunately a and I I don't know I don't know the circumstances. But if you don't have witnesses, cops have every right to be success suspectful of that there could be ulterior motives there. So they have to check that out and but did they interviewed the guy today a question. Where did it go from? You made an initial police report on the day it happened was after going live on facebook. No it was it was during in like literally after I got hit I had gone a facebook live. I. Waited for the cops while I was on my facebook live. And on on on July Fourth, he actually attacked another neighbor to the point where he had a concussion and he has a gash on his arm not. Not My attacker but actual neighbor and and he didn't get arrested for that attack either no didn't. See Right now, my arm complex is actually being taken over by the homeless people. So like all the homeless people from all over New Mexico are flocking to to these apartments and Amino taking over it so so so so because of that I, still like the cops are like if they if they hit something about him that they would have to divide everything and you know get this crazy enough I was the one who actually broke the story to the news about this place becoming a homeless a place, but then even mentioned me either yet again, they didn't mention me just using stories were here's the thing I have an an if it this is absolutely true. It needs to be addressed and. But you have to understand the climate of the world we live in and the fact that you're drawing yourself a drawing attention to yourself as a performer as part of this. would. Make somebody says suspectful. Now you look at Jesse smell let that incident still heavily on people's mind and that was definitely a false attack and there were no witnesses so but she went on facebook live and then you call or you call the you went on facebook live, call the cops and wait for them to get. There is that video still online when the cops showed up of course, is actually get this on Monday what? was waiting for the judge I got the guy to admit to doing it on the phone on facebook live before the judge you on the phone while that's big. So Yes. He has because I asked him I'm like why dog? He's like this is a prank phone call on my dude we just called for the judge what are you talking about and yeah friggin admitted to it and He said he said the reason why was exactly why? Why? Thought because he's in a lot of pain you know I've been saying in a lot of the an a lot of the other interviews that have been doing that I'm pretty sure that he's in the closet. Because why else would you lash out against violently you know what I mean. that. That's that's not uncommon for for you know a lot of closeted gay men are. Openly Anti Gay and and very big in that way. So it's not uncommon to see that. So my question is, did you show the judge that tape of him admitting he did it the? Same phone call it was on the phone call so. At that point, she said that accident submit any more evidence. So I guess this will just go towards the evidence. For for the time that had them in in court because I'm dealing with. Organization who is basically being? My lawyer. At this point. But Lawyer in what sense you suing the? Guy. well I'm suing him. I'm also in the apartment complex because he should have been arrested before. So in actual police department because not even two days before he attacked me, they had called the cops on him because he was shooting bb guns at the homeless people. So it's like discussed should be off the streets and right now he is still a very, very sick guy. He needs to be off the streets you know he needs to be institutionalised but instead of, but why why would you go after the apartment complex rather than the police because the? Because it's not really the the apartment complexes responsibility tap somebody arrested to police departments. Him though. Delays at at the same place no. Yeah. Because it's it's it's an are lease that that you can't 'cause crimes here and right some he's still here. You know there are laws that. Protect tenants unfortunately from addiction as a landlord, a form landlord, I can tell you that fiction is not an easy thing, my friend So going after the the apartment complex I understand why you angry and and. And, would want go after the police department is would be your best bet there because as a landlord, it's almost impossible to a big somebody especially on on the kind of stuff that you're talking about unless you can have actually have salad physical proof and and eye witnesses and all this stuff, and then it can take up to a year because they have There are victims victor the. Tenants rights laws that are going to protect them from an eviction for a long long contracts. It's not like they. I don't think they could have prevented that but that's not for me to say, I'm saying it's A. It's a tough row to to get somebody affected. So I, understand I, understand your frustration and anger here So where where is it now the? And but there's a couple of things that trouble me you saying that the paper is they publish a story about a hate crime but they're not publishing your story because it's a hate crime and they don't WanNa deal with hate crimes that that doesn't make no. No. Because it was a hate crime against somebody's race is why Rate the article but but but for me, it's a crime against my sexuality and. That's why they're not doing it. So you think the paper is homophobic. I have. You know. What What? I'm interested come on what's the proof? Okay. So once the pandemic kit, right I was the first person in my in my state to offer a platform for nighttime performers, sexy techy making money with my safety safe distance virtual variety show. So basically, I just put all of those performers online liberty raise money for us. You know what I mean and I did this before other venues. So at that point, I was contacting the paper. Pain Cain celebrities cameo checks talk about our show and because of that, I had a talk to the paper and I was like you know this should be newsworthy and he told me that he was going to print the story. told me it has emails and said that never did three weeks later he found one about a show and it was a regular non homophobic show I mean I'm sorry. Non LGBT. Right. You're not. You're not promoting the lifestyle you promoting the entertainment. Well I guess because of my involvement with the community because this past year. The. Gay Community out here has really embraced me. So I think because of that you know of at some point maybe that peepers may think that I'm too controversial to get behind. And a see that's actually a couple of days ago I actually. I took some mushrooms and I really needed to take those mushrooms because I needed to have elected because I was. I was really really in a dark place because of all this, you know what I mean and know trying to get press trying to do the right thing. You know what I mean trying to be that person who I thought that they wanted me to be an after I had my Pitney I'm like you know what fucked me not being who I am is not helping anybody is not going to give me any closer to where I am are. Trying to go so I immediately went again on facebook live and I'm just like you know what I do drugs. Yes. Love Sex. Yes. I I'm on drugs right now and I bet you the cops still won't come because I had I. had you I called them for that guy breaking restraining order and cop sitting come to later didn't come. So sure mushrooms I'm like watch watch. Let's let's see if the cops come now you know. I know it's really extreme. But in my mind? I needed to. Break away from that. So at this point I know I know that they won't do a story on me because I'm obviously way too controversial and at least now. Give them a reason not to do a story on me other than whatever you know biases that that they might have had about me. Right and you have a lawyer now. A new lawyer knows you doing this program? Doing. This show. Yeah. I mean. Not. Necessarily know. Okay and you've been on other podcasts and he hasn't given you any advice on whether you should be doing these than that. Now. No. Does. It sound like a very good lawyer to me I have and I'll be honest with you. Because I understand why you feel the need to for publicity, but it should be his job. If he's your lawyer, he should be making this case because you as alleged victim here also have a stake in as I. said before getting some publicity getting some attention for your show business stuff. Right Upside down on me. All right. Now that's not a problem. I just make sure you're alright but so so it really the lawyers job to really take that on and take that aspect out of it because that's what's GonNa make people suspicious that's what's going to keep the paper from really publishing I think if you're a lawyer went to the paper and said we have a story or lawyers went to the cops and said, you know what you really need to investigate this further maybe get more traction out of it doesn't sound like he's a very good lawyer to me. Try. It is so funny too because like you know anyone who knows me knows that you know I've been I've been going after my dream of being able to. To a place where I can elevate the world of my music for a long time, I'm very very strategic. Even the closest people to me had asked me, they're like, I've had played. Against you, story. You have you have to realize that plays against you story seeing you as an aggressive guy looking to promote his music and trying to get him put himself out there. Will ordinarily make people suspectful that any claim you make on this is just a publicity stunt. You have to realize that that's why I'm saying you lawyer needs to take is on I would if I were you, I would recommend staying out of the spotlight and let the lawyer. But if he's not a good lawyer then you have to take it on. But he got. Great. You can tell I mean I'm. Very you know. Very, much a starving artist hold on a second I. Get it I get it up into stopping myself. I'm going to keep talking while everybody kind of addresses, Cameron stuff, and we'll be right back I totally get the idea of music promotion and and being in the entertainment business and being aggressive and in self promotion and all that stuff. It's an important thing for a young artist to get you name. Out there and it really is but when it comes to getting justice for an alleged crime that can play against your best interest in getting justice. So I, would get a better lawyer. First of all mean, I'm just giving some heartfelt advice you start with a better lawyer and let him handle it and because he's not a he, he did not advising you against going on a show like this. This is going to add to people's prejudice. People are gonNA cuss again Jussie smollet is in people's minds right now they're thinking this could be a publicity stunt there's no witnesses this guy's an entertainer a and he's and to be honest you came on here as an entertainer with the Damascus, all that stuffing and the turnaround which was an entertainment move. Now you were talking about this hate crime that happen to you people are going to be suspected. Come. From the heart here, man I want is if if it happened to you, I want to see you get justice. Right well, here's the way that I look at it. Okay. So you think about Mira Sorvino are Ashley Judd like Harvey Weinstein You know sure those girls wanted to. Further. The further their career, which some might argue that they might go and have sex with assorted Hollywood producer to make that happen and you know it's just the perfect recipe to say that, and then you know to discount their stories. So basically, when I see people who want to discount my story, first thing I want to say is You know it's a damn shame different JUSSIE smollet had to fuck make the happen to to you know the rest of us you know and. It really suck and now I understand what like you know victim say they don't WanNa come forward because of the the. Actual disbelief of it all. And and you know I'm sure that this guy you know what I mean like I said, he's lived here for two and a half years you know what I mean he understood. How strategic I am but he knows I'm driven as you know what I mean. Performing. So all I know is that you know he did that to me and you know it's like do I get to listen person does walk away with it you don't enjoy just like ends in so far there hasn't been any justice. So now I've been very vocal about the substances that I use and you know the you know the different liaisons that how because I figured that maybe the way that my people who were watching me wool. Think that maybe I need help and maybe that might compel them to actually do the right thing and actually you know make that noise Jackson behind me. because. I know what you mean. But let me just tell you something. You just made my point when you talked about the Weinstein victims, they didn't go on television. They had their lawyers go on television they didn't go on radio shows they had. Going radio show. Camera. But. So so the IDEA I. Hope I think we just lost him. maybe camera went off I'm not sure if we lost avenor is coming back but the point I was making right there is it behooves him to get a good lawyer to take the justice angle on this themselves because And he made the case to the the Weinstein people. People didn't believe that them or or cast doubt on him. Let me pull this one out in the new one in think he's over here and to stream there is The camera draft again, talk so I can make sure your mic working. On here okay So I was just saying you made the case with the Weinstein stuff their lawyers made the case for them they they weren't in the public making the case for themselves and I think if you want really want justice. And I think obviously I think you do I think the the best course for you and I'm I'm. Not. GonNa. Keep eating this dead horse but I think the best courses to bind a competent lawyer somebody who knows what he's doing and may have him make and him or her. I should say make that case for you because making the cases it's the same. As you know, you're GonNa you can always have doubt is because you're in the entertainment industry that's just the way it is. That's a fact of wife and there's nothing we. Can do about that, and the fact that you're an aggressive and believe me I understand being in the entertainment business, you have to be an aggressive self promoter you have to it's part of the life if that's what you choose to do its part of the light but the people are going to take that away from you and see that as a negative when it comes to get injustice. That's my. That's my only point about this. Right. But then at the same time she like. For Secondary I went on strike from releasing any new material. And For me I, just you know I can't. Obviously you know. I need to get famous as as I. Can because you know how dangerous? Youth everything. Sorry I have to turn on this fan of Sodas hot. And it's not worth and. The way that I see is is that all I need is one person to actually knowledge it. Hopefully, it'll be ellen beginner. On her show, give me that chance that I need and then and then it'll be like poetic justice. The fact that you know this, this incident is what is going to propel me to where I was trying to go. You know what I mean and Say Oh well, you know he probably get to himself and this isn't it's like. I'm a very smart person. I think there are other ways that you know I. I could have done duck down my keys and you know if I Sure. Anywhere. You know what I mean like. You know. My own piece out for fame ever. But you bring up this point that you gotta get famous That to me and I'm not telling you had had to live your life believe me. But for the wrong reason to be in music as far as my. My philosophy on everything I and I'm known a thousand artists in my life or more and have been active in the music industry since one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, five, and fame An. Self is a really impure goal. And it's not gonNA. If you WANNA make a living you don't have to be famous I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the cheating FAM- if that em that ends up happen but that s the goal itself is the wrong approach my friend it's it's just not it's not It's not conducive to. Getting to where you WanNa go if you WANNA make a living and you putting fame as the goalpost Y-. You're you're working against yourself you the idea is put out quality music that people will enjoy people by you'll make a living from that, and then fame is a byproduct of that Matt I need to get famous I that that's not gonNa Work Buddy it's not Look at somebody like to talk to you six nine. His. Maintenance career by basically rolling people and by being larger than life persona. and. People found value in that before he came became famous that's why he became famous. He he was doing it and people liked it, and then more people liked it and share it. So the fame was not the end goal getting people to enjoy the art was the was the end goal and that. was his goal is to make money off what he was doing. That's why he joined a gang money. It's not money is a good goal money making a living from it and making money is not the same as being famous. You gotta understand because I know plenty and we had a two nights ago. I had a musician on here who teaches people how to make a living from music and fame isn't part of the equation at all. and. So if you put that out there, I gotTA. Get. Famous. Dude you're not going to help this case at all you're not. Because that's why that's why it's like if this is what has to be sacrificed for me to be able to get where I've been trying to go like I said, I, was a little kid and I will continue to pursue until the day that I die. You know what I mean. Then you know this is small potatoes I guess and you know I guess. Fight that much more inspiring. You know what I mean mind and for me, the way that I've seen now is that. The Law Carlin is a you reap what you will so so it's like you know it may not happen when we wanted to happen, but it will happen eventually and let me just one of those things that you know I can't doubt it at all. I can't be passive as you so many people even after a year who have already given up people who were so bad last year you know who are having to take breaks up of sorts for media and it's like for me I know signed up for and you know. I've come to come to Florida turnaround now and if it makes it so I can't. Exit makes us. The frigging toothless Popstar. Then so be it maybe was a blessing from God? Again. I wish I. Wish you good fortune with with your music and all that stuff. But you said, you said, I need to get famous as soon as possible and I just that that idea is just not. In keeping with making music realistic. Though because of my age because I'm twenty nine years old. And I I really I relate by. Trying to break through into the music industry in into the popular three it's usually youth game. You know what I mean so. That's why I hear that I had my first midlife crisis at twenty four because of that. Exact. Attitude. That I hadn't like where when I was coming up I, recognize that the Beatles were. I'm dating myself here that the Beatles were all twenty in their early twenties by the time they were superstars and so I got it in my I in my head that if I'm not a superstar by the time, I'm twenty I'm a failure, and so I worked when I turned twenty I felt like value and then it became thirty because more people were making it in Iraq industry at thirty years old. So I put that goalpost and when I turned thirty I realized you know what it's not necessarily that case people can but fame should never ever be the goal if making. A. Living and fame or two different two different elements. You can make a good living from your art music without being famous and a lot of people do a lot of people do but and famous, always a byproduct of those people who adopt that attitude that I'm GonNa make this work. My first goal is to be as entertaining as I can't to add value to other people's lives once people get that and they celebrate me men, I can become famous off of the work that I've done but it doesn't work the other way around going for fame I and hoping the money follows. We'll see that's the life of me that while while it was on mushrooms, is that the world needs me to be authentic, right? That's true. That's the thing that's going to break into the mainstream because right now I thought to myself on like why am I trying to fix a smile when the rest of me is already deteriorating you know what I mean. I can never be Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber, and it's like a breakthrough trying to do that picture perfect pop star and then that's when it just hit me. It's like I need to be authentic and that's how I I had to come over here and you know tell you the way that really tell you. Exactly what you know Why am at this point because? It was it's let's deal with you know what I mean and. I'm. I'm amazed that I'd still been able to. Continue on without having some type of nervous because you know people who have been through what I've been through. Some of that never leave their house again you know. So for me. It's like. I know in my heart what was right? You know if you watch that the OH. You know. You. Really I am a hero because of the fact that literally the day after. I mean the day before I was attacked I was there celebrating fight try for the? Celebrated and then the next day I'm persecuted for my beliefs and now I'm still going on to make sure that this issue is actually being talked about and and then people don't forget you don't mean so persecuted how new swing me the persecution. I was persecuted for what this person thought that I was. You said after the attack you will pr. I. Understand the attack and I'm not sure that's being persecuted that being attacked and. Hate. Crime. It might be semantics here but that's a violent attack in the guy should have been arrested no doubt about it but persecution is something else where people continue and it comes from the system generally not from a single person. So persecution would the system allowing this person to Jackie continue to live on my same address again, another reason why being persecuted for my You. Know what I mean it is it is persecution. You think about that. You know it's persecuting because it is a religious accident with. With. Within a with like I don't know but it is being persecuted. You know. Are you are you still feeling some backlash from from Albuquerque in general people targeting you in in any way? For Secondary, I couldn't go on any dating APPs without people you know talking, Shit you know what I mean telling me. Oh, you deserve it. You know what I mean. It. Oh. Yeah. People have said that to me. And the kids to you out these people for their hatred and bigotry on that. I sure did I put him on my facebook Greece job at him and had over forty people you know custom out. Just just yesterday I had a I had podcasts host who show on going after somebody else who was trying to me you know what I mean maybe feel like when When people talk to me and actually realized you know the happy person that I am you know anybody will not doubt that you know this really happen and like I said I have it on camera you know him he actually admitting. To it but are realized that part of a bigger issue which is that my city my state is still very, very homophobic and right now what? Would have been doing them. I've been trying to track. You'll get like my like local pride organizations to start having more representation and in different parts of the city and actually taking a step too. I'm actually running for the president of Albuquerque Pride the election is actually next month. So Good. He now So you you were gonNA be the I. Don't know. I'm cramming this right but the grand master of this pride event or or headliner. So. That is that organization that who was sponsoring the event are they behind you in this? Are they doing anything on your behalf in this? The, lady who who had put it on she is She's actually has a lot of personal issues going on with the Albuquerque Pride because she's Las Vegas. Las Vegas Mexico prime show I hate to say but her. Her hurt all the issues that she's fighting for. She doesn't really know how to go after just one issue because that because of all the things. That you so vocal about it makes her look like she's fucking crazy. So No, she hasn't been able to really get behind me. She's on somebody that I really want behind me. It's actually another reason why I think that my prioritization out here was was really reluctant taxi get behind me. But now they actually had had just give me a call last week for me to actually interview on their show finally. So you know it's progress. Yeah Yeah. Well, it kind of sucks that the organization won't get behind you but the actual rank and file members the people who are part of that organization they they aren't bound by the organization they could still get behind you or are you have any of those people in Your Circle Fighting Foyer Oh. Yeah. Definitely. I have all the major players out here in the LGBTQ community. All right for for people because this is a worldwide 'em and my biggest is believe it or not as Australia. So they don't know they don't know fuck in New Mexico from from a whole wall right and with my second biggest is the US but then France, and so I have a worldwide audience so I just want to explain to. People for people who don't know and I'm here in New York Albuquerque is a tiny fucking town but in New York it wouldn't it wouldn't even be a blip on on on radar in New York State. So my question is for an entertainer wise to and this happened to you and you have so many problems with the community in Albuquerque why stay there So, okay. So you know how it should last year I made a web series. The web series is called help Hollywood tracking New Mexico. And the resolution from the web series. Message From It was that. You can make it in New Mexico, they that I don't have to be in a late to make it because the whole web series is about when I was in la one incident less homeless and then added moved back here. So. I moved back here and I made the web series because I was trying to make it manifest itself so that I could actually propel myself to to that place where you know I I've been trying to get you. but in a year's time my state has deathly has deathly let me down. But I've been here to to to try to give a role model to these kids and also try to change the breaking bad narratives that is in Albuquerque you know what I mean. I feel like it was Kinda destiny but that was brought back here because I wasn't la for five years. Five years had to come back here. You I understand the part about making it and you can make it from anywhere in show business. You can make it from anywhere, but anywhere is not going to be abusive to you anywhere is not gonNA. Be, too, up and knock your teeth out and then the police department ignore it. So if you're having that problem why and you can still sue them and seek justice even though you move away why stay there if the community is not supporting, the police department is not supporting distill a guy in your. complex who who hates you wants to beat you up for what you are. A seems to me not the best place to be, and I would probably say, fuck this place I. I can still make in and I'm not saying the state but the the community itself and the city of Albuquerque is not your friend why stay there. I almost like you're asking me to move in. Because I would love to come to long island like I would up everything right now to go to New York right now. Really It's not you have you been here. Have you been here? Yes. Yes. Well it's not much better here than it is Albuquerque Albuquerque when I say it wouldn't be a blip on radar in new. York is a lot like the small towns on Long Island and you know and most people think of a city they think in New York City they think of Los, Angeles, the ticket Chicago Albuquerque's not that it's no Babylon Long Island or or something like that no, I'm not asking you moving i. Have enough people living my house is I think it's really because my family's her you know what I mean. That's only good thing about it because delay I was having different problems out there. You know I was having problems being able to have a place I couldn't even rehearse without getting kicked out of places at least here because it's so remote you know I can sing at two o'clock in the morning and it's fine so. What about what about Santa Fe? Santa Fe is very much artists. Community is very open, liberal non-judgmental type of place, and it's only a hour away. What about what about? Honestly. If I went to a place with any with with any more or less people, I would probably go crazy because I've really missed the whole you know like and it's already it's already to quite here you know what I mean I can't imagine going to settle I actually I love Santa Fe Santa Fe was the best experience in my life best part of of traveling and living in a in a place that was not a big city and it was very conducive to the arts I found I found that the creativity in Santa Fe. was is as as robust is any place I've ever lived or spent anytime. So you know I'm not saying she left I'm just saying I don't understand I get your family's there but there's a lot of places in New Mexico you can live and still seek justice from New Mexico again you right in fact that you can make it from anywhere so if you can make it from anywhere wh why not? Town Roswell. I'm just kidding about that but Necessarily tied to an in a complex way, you know you gotTa Threat and it's only twenty five feet and the police are not really enforcing it. It seemed like you know I i. I would get the fuck outta there if it were me. Right. Right. Well, I think a lot of it was that I didn't want to leave and like you know have everybody just forget about it. But now I, have the restraining order in place I am looking for another place to live. You know what I mean I mean obviously, I'm not gonNA live in the warzone anymore I'm thinking about Knob Hill you know that's like a party town. Yeah but So where do you go from here? You're you're suing the guy and all you soon, the Police Department and the apartment complex you back performing or you're not out. You still in lockdown Aaron can't perform anywhere anyway he's still performing jets from your apartment on the web. What's what are you doing? Well just socks week I had I had a mini concert actually and it did it did it did take place at my apartment. You say like it's a bad thing just no I'm not saying like a bad thing I'm asking what you do trying to get some clarity on what you're doing because Becau-. Just tell you. Let me explain what way said that because where I am. Here, in New York, we were on lockdown and couldn't perform anywhere a lot of people doing web shows and that kind of stuff and that's fine I'm that's cool. But we about a month ago we were released from lockdown and we've been doing shows again and I I had a show last night. So that's why I'm I'm clarifying what you're doing not passing judgment on it so. Forgive me for being. So is adapted. You know obviously develop a lot of you know tough skin you know what I mean Y-. but I think it was just last week. Our governor said that we couldn't do any with. Doug, we couldn't eat at restaurants anymore again it again. So because of that I had some answering shows that actually I was hosting benefits I was going to be throwing but of course, those had to be postponed. So I did my little mini concert last week I did it with all the proceeds being donated to black lives matter and tomorrow I'm actually GONNA be performing at this venue here called the jam spot and it's going to be another night concert but they're actually GonNa let me use actual venues. Oh, it will be a much more. You know like live experience for my audience. So I'm excited you know Now at this point, I feel like like the like different venues the like straight venues as it was are now accepting me more. So I feel like there is progress. To Lake, it's happening you know. As explosion in Minority explosion was my way of trying to manifest my explosion into the entertainment business and Industry I'd still happening you now is it explosion or explosion because I think there's a Typo when you're a little name tag there and I it, it says expose them slow the. took. So it's an explosion. Yes. Okay, not a problem I just WANNA. Make sure that people understand what what it really is So just closing up here what when you perform what do you? Do it with backing tracks. The are you like a one man show you have a band what do you? What do you do? So I kind of do a mixture of. Kind of what you would see I guess you know like lead singer in a band but also at the same time I do a lot of performance. Are you know what I mean whether it's you know me like fainting me acting like A. For instance my last show I. had it. So I had the person film it while they were under the covers with. So is basically like I was on top of them. You know what I mean, but it was all done in one single take. So it was just laying on a different. Way Of. Performing lies in that sense, but it was still a live show. So I tried to do out of the box. Definitely. and. Explained to an old guy like me what exactly EDM is. DM is just electric dance music. So music that stand with. A computer basically. Okay. So I think I have somebody on the show this evening at eight pm that qualifies as that I. I just called it Electronica I guess that name dates me too. That's like an older name or techno or That kind of stuff is that different from EDM? I'm I think it is a sub genre of. Of EDM. Yes. Definitely. Labels fuck me up man I can't keep track of all different labels people put on music but saw thanks for educating me on that because I had no idea listen I got I gotta run game prepare for another show I have another show after this I encourage people to follow up on your story So we you have a website or they follow through your facebook. Page I have your facebook show page listeners Evan the entertained facebook dot com slash Ebony entertainers that where they can follow up on this story and and all that stuff for just the only that and also mind my instagram twitter. My only fans is Evans explosion. Okay. Sounds Say Send me any links in a posted a description so people can follow up on this story BE INTERESTING I Still. Only one big paper in a newspaper in Albuquerque or are they more than one Albuquerque Journal? Yep that's it basically. Wow man it doesn't grow I mean fifth forty years go by and it's still exactly the same town Well, it's been it's been informative and I'm glad you came on and and we're able to tell you story but I wish you success I again I'm just GonNa leave you with the advice. Get a better, Loyd. And have him do have him do the pitch if you really want justice get and lawyers worked pro bono get a good lawyer and help me and have bad person fight to fight for you and you concentrate on your music career and I think you'll. You'll probably both be better off in both areas of your life and music career and getting justice for what happened here if you if you take my advice and that's just from an old man who been down a lot of different roads in his life man I want to say I, want to see you succeed but does my advice for you take it or leave it but thank you for coming. Thank you so much. I really. Advocate Day and great success to you by. This episode is brought to you by put me in the story. In the story creates personalized books for kid by taking bestselling children's picture books and well up characters in allowing you to create personalized books that make your child star of the story alongside their favorite characters. 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404- Return of Oate's Foot

99% Invisible

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

404- Return of Oate's Foot

"I want to tell you about another podcast. He might enjoy pin-drop from Ted on pin-drop hosts Salim Russia Walla turning across the globe do find surprising stories and ideas from each place with local journalists, creators as your guides learn about a fun and fears art movement in Nairobi. Kenya, that challenges the common narrative of the region here how citizens designed a crowd sourced constitution in Mexico City, and find out why residents of Bangkok call a radio station instead of nine one one check out pin drop on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you listen. This is ninety nine percent invisible. I'm Roman Mars. from Birmingham Alabama to Washington DC all across the country. Old confederate monuments coming down many monuments to confederate soldiers and slaveholders are being taken down, either by protesters or by local officials in Raleigh North Carolina June eighteenth demonstrators tore down to statues from a monument outside the Capitol building. In Richmond Virginia protesters toppled statues of confederate leaders. Williams Carter Wickham in Jefferson, Davis. In Virginia Governor Ralph Northam ordered the removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert de Lee yes, that statue has been there for a long time, but it was wrong then. And, it is wrong now. And it isn't just monuments to the confederacy over twenty statues of Christopher Columbus have come down across the country to in cities like Providence Rhode Island Minneapolis Minnesota and even Columbus Ohio, Christopher, Columbus Statue. It is down the latest form of protest against racial injustice. People across the country. These monuments have been falling in the middle of historic protests against police brutality. Sparked by the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, these demonstrations have spread to communities, big and small across the country and around the world, and as they've grown, the protests have become about much more than police violence. This national uprising has inspired a massive reckoning with their countries past suddenly decades of inertia and footdragging have given way to decisive action. A few years back we did a story about a couple of controversial monuments in New Mexico Bay. Honored a Spanish. Can Kista door named one day on yesterday who was an early settler in the region? And yes, those statues have been back in the news recently too, so we wanted to check in with Stan Alcorn reporter. Who did that original story for us? He's Dan Hey Roman, so tell us about the protests. That happened a couple of weeks ago in Albuquerque. Albuquerque yeah, so on Monday June fifteenth I was sitting at my desk, following this all just through videos on twitter and live streams, and it was this scene very much like the ones we've seen play out across the country with confederate generals with Christopher Columbus of activists, actively trying to pull down the statue on Yata, really just with a rope around it with a pickaxe, and at the same time, people trying to prevent them from doing it. People who are. Heavily. Armed people who looked like members of a militia in camouflage so it was really tense seen that I was seeing and. Pretty quickly. The thing that you might be afraid would happen. In that kind of scene occurred. There were gunshots. And it was clear that somebody had been shot, and suddenly became a very different kind of story. What was like for you to miss all unfold? Know it was. It was a really strange experience. These are statues that I have known my entire life. Basically I mean. I grew up in Albuquerque I was following as this statue was put up, and now I'm like seeing people try to pull them down, and not only that as an investigative reporter reveal one of the things that I cover off is right, wing extremism and I was actually finishing up a story about. About right wing extremists, and it was as if these militia members with the kind of things that they believe with the threatened use of violence. It was like people from my reveal extremism story had suddenly walked into my childhood public art story, so this really strange kind of collision of world's yeah, it seems like a lot of our history is all colliding at this very moment where reconciling with huge stories or past and present. It's really something to to witness. So we're we're, GONNA go back to the that protests in the shooting everything that happened in the last couple of weeks, but first we wanted to replace stands original story, which looks at the history of on yachties arrival in New Mexico and the enormous battle over these monuments, which started back in the nineteen ninety S. check it out. January seventh nineteen ninety, eight. An envelope landed on the desk of Larry callaway. He was a columnist with the Albuquerque Journal. It was sort of a combination of. Press release and a ransom note and A photo. The photo was a polaroid of a cut off writing boop with huge Spanish spur. All in bronze. And I read the note. The note hinted that the bronze foot came from a statue of a man named one day on. Seated on a horse, it was part of a monument on the side of a rural highway near where Anita family, the first Spanish colony in New Mexico back in fifteen, ninety eight. Larry figured this was probably a hoax Mrs Stan Alcorn, a reporter with the investigative podcast reveal. There are collaborators on this story today. So handed the tip off to the newsroom, and a reporter called up the visitor center at the Anita Monument and ash. Is Your statue missing a right foot? And the guys are. And he went out and checked came back and he was. In Shock. He's. Gone. On JATTA is one of the world's lesser-known can kista doors, but his name is all over New Mexico their own Yati streets on yet a schools for decades there was an annual fiesta where one lucky guy would get to be own Yata complete with a Cape and helmet. There's even a song. Did on. Parts of New Mexico. He's treated as a kind of founding father. History is not all song and dance and wearing capes. He was a congested or all. The envelope Larry got also included an excerpt from a history book on yachties treatment of New Mexico's native people. It described an incident that ended with own Yati sentencing a group of men from ACA Pueblo, to each have one foot chopped off, if the symbolism of removing the statues foot was unclear, the note made it explicit it shed, we took the liberty of removing own yachties, right foot on behalf of our brothers and sisters at. level. We will be melting this foot down. And casting small medallions. To be sold to those who are historically ignorant. The statue sculpture cast new right foot and reattached it. The medallions never turned up, but the story stuck. You got picked up by NPR and the New York Times. I was a seventh grader in Albuquerque at the time. And what I remember is how the subject I found. Most boring history was suddenly this exciting mystery that remains unsolved to this day. Who Stole Oneonta as foot. And then there was the timing. Nineteen Ninety eight was the four hundred anniversary of own yachties arrival. There were court does Centenario celebrations planned all of this date? There would be theater parades a commemorative stamp in a second to the paper, these so-called Friends of ACA wrote we see no glory, and celebrating on your days Fourth Centennial, and we do not want our faces rubbed in it in other words, the point of cutting off the statues foot was to spoil the party and the centerpiece of that party that got a mention in all the foot stories was a quarter percent, the narrow memorial being planned for Albuquerque's historic center the proposal. Another bronze statue of Kwan Own Yata this one right in the middle of New Mexico's biggest city. But with all this new attention on own Yati, the second statue wasn't going to get built without a fight. I still didn't see the storm that was coming. It was still in an sympathy. Conceit Lucero was one of the organizers of the four hundredth anniversary celebrations in Albuquerque and one of the most passionate advocates for a new on yachties dot EU passion that goes back to her childhood growing up in nineteen fifties new. Mexico knowing almost nothing about own Yata or the states two centuries as a Spanish colony when I was a child. At ten years of age. I asked my grandmother who was a schoolteacher I was reading the American history books a sit. There are people do anything you know that's how I felt. She didn't know New Mexico history. All cheat new. was that her Spanish ancestors had come to the states centuries before the Anglo. Classmates who called people like her dirty Mexicans were the Anglo. Teachers who kept her out of a leadership club. And she knew that racism and ignorance at history where somehow connected. You if we make you feel like the underdog. And then we take away your history and take away your knowledge. You're starting from scratch. Conversations you don't know how to even participate. You just let the other guy put you down. Continue thought if she could just search out her own European routes, it would help her fight back. None of this is uncommon in New Mexico. Where people have been reaching back to their colonial roots and identifying as Spanish since eighteen hundreds. After Cheetah retired. She found a lot of like minds in local genealogical and historical societies. She learned how to use birth and death and baptism records to trace her family tree. There was the usual native American ancestor, but she was most excited to find branches like the one that extended back to a Spanish captain who brought his wife and kids through the Chihuahua desert on Anita's fifteen ninety eight expedition. She saw them as having transformed the region by bringing livestock and Catholicism and the Spanish language. It's start finding your family members in. You're going well. I never knew they did all this change how you saw yourself. Yes I. I never argued that one person wasn't as good as the other, but sometimes you were made to feel inferior, and at that point that inferiority left. And so it was that competitor was on the court, though scenario committee when they met with the Albuquerque Arts Board to discuss their request for a prominent new statue of. The man they called the father of the Hispanic culture and our state, who the fronts of outcome accused of destroying native people's way of life. was what happened at. Brought up. No. Was it on your mind. No. Was it something that you knew about. I wasn't as versed in as I have become. For people who don't know Akamot What is what is that? This is Alita or tweedy Suazo Anathema woman, who had become an outspoken opponent of an own Yati statue in Albuquerque acas the oldest continuously inhabited community in the United States. And it sits on a Mesa, three hundred and seventy five feet above the valley below. She actually carries a postcard of ACA to show people when she travels. It's a village built on top of Mesa. which if you're not from the desert is like huge rock pedestal, and that may suggest towers, the flat empty plain below all of it. Hundred Shades of Brown from Light Tan to depressed. It's incredible the tough thing with radios you don't have pictures to. Help people visualize it, 'cause. It's like no other place on her. No, it's it's not. It's beautiful. It's desert and Rox in sandstone and. That's where I come from you know, and unlike dozens of blows that disappeared after the arrival of the Spanish Adema is still here. Each year tens of thousands of tourists, drive and hour west of Albuquerque and then ticket tour bus up a steep road to the top of the Mesa. Just watch yourself. Don't get too close to the edge. If you happen to fall over the edge, this is the end of your tour, and no response will be given. Just keep that in mind. Okay on top you can see buildings made of mud and sandstone. The tour guide say date back to the eleven hundreds. Houses have been passed down through the same family for almost a thousand years now so now we're going to be walking past some of the older houses. Right up here. Folks all along the tour. Their tables where ACTA artists sell their wares mostly pottery. Just a tourist attraction, there are fifteen families that live up top year round and hundreds more like he's who go there for special occasions, funerals deaths religious fiestas. We were always there. What did you know about the history of your people in that place? That we came from the undo world. On the back grandmother Spider. Wandered the earth. And when we got to where Acuna was, we were told. This is what we're supposed to be. That's what I knew you know that. We've been there forever. Tweety also knew that when the Spanish arrived, they did terrible things to our ancestors, but she didn't know the details. Historians, know many of those details today because they were written down by the Spanish and letters, legal documents, these documents to quote on your taste, best known biographer skim the surface of events, and sometimes present on Jatta quote as he wished to be seen not as things actually were. which makes their description of what happened? Aca All the more shocking. After thirteen of Men came looking for food and were killed on Jatta, declared a war of blood and fire. In the most brutal account of the battle that followed as soldiers killed hundreds of men, women and children, stabbed prisoners, and threw them off the Mesa and set fires, suffocated, women and children who take shelter in sacred rooms known as Kiva. They then rounded up five hundred prisoners and put them on trial on Yati sentence those over twelve years old to twenty years of slavery, those under twelve, he separated from their families, giving the girls to the church, and the boys to the captain who just destroyed their village. And then there's the most infamous detail in a document signed by own Yata himself, it says the males who are over twenty five years of age. I sentenced to have one foot cut off. His cruelty to the innocent of Alabama was one of the twelve crimes for which on Jatta himself would later be tried and convicted by the Spanish crown as punishment. He would be banished permanently from the territories of New Mexico. This is the history that tweedy and I and many other new Mexicans were learning for the first time, as news of the stolen foot, ricocheted around the state that was the beginning of it that was everybody's first awareness, and at the same time we were also learning that the city of Albuquerque was planning to build this new much more prominent statue of. He had been cast out of New Mexico for ever. And now you WANNA. Bring him back. Put Him on a statue. It's still mind boggling. How on Jatta from a banished, can KISTA door to a father of New Mexico that people wanted to put on a statue. Is a story for another podcast, but the simple answer is. He was first the first to build a European colony in the region. Even if that colony was soon abandoned, he was among the first to bring wheat and sheep and Catholicism. And, because every people needs a founding figure Spanish New Mexico made the own Yata. It's George Washington. Even if he had been cast out forever, but it did not take long for the Kirke. Arts Board to realize that one day on Jatta was not everyone's idea of founding father. They could see that another triumphant statue of him on a horse would be a bad look for the city. So by the time the foot was cut off of the old statue on the side of the highway. They made a few changes to the plan. The memorial would need to depict not just on yesterday, but also the peaceful settlers who came with him and the native Americans who preceded and survived him. And the exact form the memorial would take would be up to a team of artists. They had a team to. But right before the newspapers got wind of the missing foot, they decided to a third when Nora Neuron more Scott the call. She was in the place where she's most comfortable. Her studio I mean who would want to be here right in the studio with a fireplace in the rain on the phone was the director of public art for the city of Albuquerque asking if she wanted to be part of a try cultural collaboration. It would be the Hispanic artist who had built the statue that had its foot stolen an Anglo artist and her a takeaway Indian artist from the Santa Clara Pueblo. The call was so out of the blue. This was a public art project I'd never done art. Really. This was with other people. I had been working solo. So I didn't really know I was listening. And did you say yes right then or do you remember how the Yes I said? Yes, right away because I opened my mouth and I said yes and then. Afterwards I thought Oh. I wonder what this is going to be like. She'd find out when she showed up for that first meeting in institutional room with fluorescent lighting a chalkboard. The other artists wheeled in a model of a statute. They'd already put together. It was. Another triumphant statue of one day. On A horse. And that's when they begin to talk about the granite pedestal. And how I could use. It. The the pedestal beneath Anita's Horse's feet, right? I felt insulted. I felt hurt. I felt marginalized I. Didn't think I could do that? Although in myself, I was thinking that there was a solution. That art could tell a story. That was truthful. were, quite literally refused to on Jatta on a pedestal, and the artists went back to the drawing board. But now, nor was in the public eye, and soon she started getting calls from. People who wanted her to leave the project entirely in protest. I didn't do that. When I refused I got some I think people were disappointed. But I realized that By me staying in the game. I would at least be able to. Fight for that voice that I. Think was so. Important. Not Just my artistic voice, but the voice of these people that had gone through this incredible experience that change their culture completely. And? I kept going back to those things. The Year of the four hundredth anniversary, nineteen, Ninety eight came and wet, and there was still no plan for the memorial, but the city would not give up. All the attention had made the memorial a very public test of whether the state was the land of try cultural harmony that it claimed to be. And, so every time the process hit an impasse, the city just through more time and money at it, hiring mediators and forming committees. At one point, one of those committees came up with a plan that would have restarted the whole artistic process plan compete aside couldn't tolerate it called for a memorial without on Jatta. Would focus on coexistence of Hispanics indigenous. Then we said it wasn't our celebration. You know it's your celebration now. It's not ours you don't get invited to a wedding. You don't start telling the bride and the groom. You should have had it this way or that way, or and that's what what it was. It was our celebration, but it was your celebration with public money and public space. That's in a in a city that has people of. All different backgrounds. Grant was for our celebration not for the ACA celebration or for anybody else's. As far as Cheetah's group was concerned, the presence of own Yalta, was non-negotiable, which made it hard to negotiate and the end there simply was no single design that everyone could agree on in fact, eventually, the artists stopped talking to each other. Instead they proposed memorial made up of two separate artworks, a series of bronze statues of Spanish settlers, including on Yata in full armor and nores response an abstract land art installation made out of the desert itself had gone from a small bronze statue to a memorial that would take up most of a city block and cost over half a million dollars, requiring the city to special bonds. Now the question was with the city. Approve it. Cheetah and the Pronoun Forces lobbied the city. Council while on Yati opponents like tweedy took their case to the people you know finding out. WHO's forests and who isn't? And how do we target the people in that area for them to call their councilman? That's the first time I've ever done that, you know. Becoming an activist with. I was I never I. Never done that the statue and also a highway the city was trying to build through a national monument of ancient petroglyphs was making first time activists out of a lot of Pueblo people. The first time that we really rallied around something activists, artists, citizens and city councillors. We're headed for a final showdown. This is gop fourteen, and now from government center in downtown Albuquerque the Albuquerque City Council. In, a series of meetings, the City Council auditorium was divided like a pep. Rally or Congress on one side was the pro crowd. Mostly Hispanic people around continues age on the other side was the anti on Yati Group. They tend to be younger and more diverse native Americans, but also Anglos and African Americans and a lot of people who identified as Chicano or Misdee- so explicitly embracing their indigenous well as European industry. The city council tried to give the two sides equal time to speak. And an hour after hour of public comment, they went back and forth, but not over the design of the memorial. Really they were fighting over something much bigger and much more personal. In American history are colony was the first in what is today? The United States of America. You can't pretend that we didn't come here four hundred years ago. This is really a matter of denigrating the Hispanic people of New Mexico. Do I have to stop. Some courage and listen. First of all soy cheek Gano. And unlike some Hispanics that are here in the audience, I didn't just get off the plane from Spain. On have to does not represent the best of my culture. You are not representing me and I just want to say that I'm sorry that you and a small group of Hispanics in this room feel like they have to slam and other people's culture in order to feel proud. There were dozens of speakers, but the leaders were women from ACA like Tweetie. I didn't know that the awful things that happened to my people happen to my people. The statue became an issue. I'm really tired of being used tourist. And our wears is the only things that matter. You! Don't do this to my people. Backing you do. Don't hurt him this way. It's not right. Thank you very much last speaker I l Sanchez Davis. It seemed like most people were on tweety side. But if the city voted against the memorial, it wouldn't just be saying no to this statue of own Yata in the settlers sent to Nora's landscape art. It would be admitting that this whole very public process that had dragged on for more than two years had been a failure. The committees that design it means debate all for nothing. So, when it finally came time to vote all those in favor, please signify by saying I those opposed. They voted seven to two to build a memorial that notion. After the vote count, you dilute Sarah, told a reporter. I think our kids will finally learn about their ancestors. tweety swallow and other Antione Yata activists formed a prayer circle in the city council chambers and wept. We've worked so hard. And it is, it didn't matter. It didn't matter what we said. It didn't matter what we do. It didn't matter that we educate it. It just didn't matter. If it all happened again today. Do you think it would happen the same way or What would be different. I think Indians I think. Pueblos are just a little bit more politically astute now. tweedy thinks what they learned was that the right arguments aren't enough? You need the right decision makers. She's one of several anti. Activists who went on to get involved in electoral politics. She's now the chair of the native American, Democratic Caucus of New Mexico and this last cycle she helped, raise money and get out the vote for deb Holland one of the two native American women who just became the first ever to be elected to Congress. Today if you go visit the Finish Memorial, what you'll see isn't Aena Day on a horse. It's a compromise. It's really two memorials crammed into one the first. You can grasp without even getting out of your car. It's more than two dozen life-sized bronze figures, men, and women, oxen and sheep trudging up a hill. One day on Jatta is in front on foot, no plaque with his name, and under the watchful eye of a security camera that may or may not be pointed at his feet, the second memorial right next to it looks from above like a huge dirt spiral, but from ground level. You really just have to experience it. It's a striking contrast to the kind of art that that's really in your face. I'd act and says this is what I mean. I think that reflects Pueblo thinking it's much more subtle. It doesn't articulate in the way we've become used to as. Civilized people colonized people. When I met Lauren Iran Homework I, get a tour. She just been picking up. Trash left inside her part of the memorial. She was holding a doughnut rapper as we walked down a dirt path that spirals slowly downhill into the ground. The street disappears behind the Berms of Jamaica's and junipers on our right and left. Then the buildings then on Jatta himself. Until finally at the center of the spiral, all you can see the land. and water trickling across Iraq. And I like that very much because I think. That's what it was like a long time ago. That's how I interpret the past. If you sit low to the ground. You can almost get a glimpse of a world before on Jatta arrived. It's an escape. But it's also intended as a confrontation between two totally different worldviews. Because as you walk back out of the spiral, this is what you see. Telephone lines the sculpture of. Yati coming here looking north. The Stop Light. It's all there. And so you see that. In some ways when they came. They brought us great opportunity, but at such a high-cost. The brutal. was forever. Affecting to us. And I think. We should never forget that. She hopes her piece of the memorial will remind people of that. But honestly, not that many people come here. The memorial doesn't attract nearly as much attention as the conflict over the memorial did I. think that's why it's important stewardship not only to pick up the trash, but also to keep the story alive. Because they're going to be a lot more generations of people coming. Wondering, What what is this? And that's where our story was going to end until last year when an old mystery reemerged, remember that first statue. We told you about the one that got its foot stolen. Well for almost two decades, the foot thieves had remained in the shadows, their identities unknown. And then one day Chris. Air The director of smoke signals and skins. Possibly the best known American filmmaker was chose this great, little new Mexican restaurant in Santa Fe I was sitting there. Eating a TACO with. My business partner and Someone came up to me and said. I have a story to tell you. I'm eating. My TACO and I said. Oh Shit! Not Another story. and. You know I heard a few key words, but I wasn't listening intently and all the sudden. It dawned on me I said, wait a minute. And I turn and I said. Are you talking about I? Think you're talking about. It was the guy who cut the foot of the first. Statue or at least he claimed to be a spokesman for the group who did the deed, and the truth of the matter is that I could never verify it other than I believed it. In the end Chris believed the guy in part, because he was presented with a very solid piece of evidence, when Chris met him for a second time in a forest of Pinon trees, he unwrapped piece of black velvet to reveal something. No one had seen for twenty years Lo and behold there appeared. Probably a twenty eight inch long. Bronze. PATINA D-. BOOT of a Spanish Kista door. And I said to myself wow. then I looked around I similar. So where the hell am I, and what the Hell am I doing here? A few chunks of the foot had been shaved off where they've made. A half hearted attempt to follow through on those medallions for the historically ignorant. But otherwise it was still intact, and still had the power to grab people's attention. KRIZNER's the identity of the foot thieves. He is not revealing it, but he did talk about their motivations. You know the party involved is not. Speaking from an activist position. And doesn't. Feel like an actress. This person feels like. A historian. He wasn't trying to start movement or affect policy. Just to write what on Jatta did to act a man in fifteen, ninety nine into the history of the colonization of new, Mexico? That story still doesn't have a statue, and maybe never will. But in the meantime the Friends of Alabama or holding on to on your face foot. Coming up after the break, we talk with Stan alcorn about everything that's happened with the day statues over the past couple of weeks, and it's been a lot, so stay with us. Okay so we're back with reporters Stan. Alcorn to talk more about what's been happening in New Mexico just in the past couple of weeks, so stan like you said in the beginning of the show here that it was really strange feeling they spent so much time exploring the history of these monuments, and then see them. Come up in the news again. So when did you start hearing that? There might be some new conflict around the statutes so the weekend before the protests that we talked about initially is when my phone started ringing. Tweedy Swabs, Oh, who had been one of the people vocally opposing the statue in Albuquerque called me up and told me I needed to look at the front page of the Albuquerque Journal because. There was only on the front page There was a new effort basically to have it removed, and there are people who were saying. They were going to oppose it in the courts, so she was emailing all the same people who opposed it back in the ninety s kind of getting geared up for yet another kinda like long bureaucratic fight to now finally remove on Jatta right where you go. Go to city council meetings and you, you know you talk and talk to historians and you bring all that stuff at, but but that's not what happened. What would happen next? Yeah, so instead of this really long slog. Everything started to happen really quickly so tobacco. I'm. There are two statues right? There's the original older Yati on a horse up on the side of the road with the foot cutoff. Cut Off. And then there's the Albuquerque compromise where on Yadda is walking with all the settlers and both of these statues. There's going to be significant protests on Monday by it. I started hearing from activists earlier in the day that the county up in northern New Mexico might be actually removing the equestrian own Yata that had its foot cutoff before people even got their. Stop Them from tearing it down. They were GONNA. Take Down I. is that the idea that does seem to be the idea? There also was already this presence of this right wing militia. The New Mexico civil, guard that has been showing up at black lives matter protests in New Mexico heavily armed. And so I think there was fear. Both of the activists attempting to pull the statue down, but also of some kind of violent confrontation right, they were trying to make a safer situation by not having this controversial figure at this moment. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So did you actually see the northern Mexico to get hold away like what was it like? Yeah I, it was just like rumors. Maybe county workers are doing something their trucks there and then I got texted a livestream facebook livestream by an activist. And I went to and. To some historic right now there is a bulldozer driving around and eventually there's a moment where the. Bulldozer or whatever this heavy equipment is called, it's big shovel underneath and just lifts it up and drives it. Down and chains. Did. It seem like. This. Was a joyous event. What was the tone of the people that were there? Yeah, so the tone was it was pretty joyful I would say from the people who are watching on the side of the Road but there weren't that many of them. You really got a better sense of the way. People felt about this at the plan protest. Because it's still occurred now. It was no longer really a protest, though because there was no statue on. Party. Yeah, it was like a celebration and kind of like ritual where it was largely organized by these activists the Red Nation, and there were speeches and then protesters. Pushed through the gate, and actually climbed up on the pedestal where the statue had been before and there no dancing, drumming and singing. Activists dipping their hands in red paint, and putting those handprints all over the pedestal that had held that horsens own Yata until that morning. God. So that brings us to the other on Jatta Monument in Albuquerque, so that the day that onions Sacha came down in Alqadi. There was this protest at Albuquerque, and we heard a little bit about the protests at the beginning of the show, but. More about what actually unfolded there, so it sounds like a lot of people. We heard from your original story like tweets Oiseaux. We're actually at that protests. That told me about that. Yeah, it was a lot of the same people who opposed it in the nineties had planned this peaceful prayer vigil to happen in the park across the street from the statues, and then so that's the way the protests starts out. It's the early evening. People are sitting on the grass. People are making speeches. Tweety makes a long speech where she's. Trying to inform people telling them about the history of the statue and the history of own Ya Tae. And it's there's a few hecklers at one point, but it's primarily. It's like speeches. Quiet peaceful. But at the same time, and really picking up after the per vigil ends, there's a kind of second protest. Mostly younger people activists who want to clearly take more of a direct action that's happening over at the statue itself, and so did you get a sense from tweedy? How she felt about this transition in the in the protests style, and what this felt like for her, even just what? It felt like just to be there back again after all this time really. Yeah I. I mean I. Think there's a certain amount of like okay. We have to inform people again, but but still it kind of like stubborn faith and hope that if people just understand then, they'll be able to call their city councillors fell will use the levers of democracy the way it's supposed to work and we can. We can do something about this, but as the per vigil ends and she's. She's driving away. She sees that people are now climbing up on the statue. She sees that there are these members of the New Mexico Civil Guard these mostly white dude's in Cammo with machine guns and she was really worried. I'm sitting there thinking. ooh, this doesn't look good, and I'm like well I'm glad I'm leaving because I don't WanNa. Be here. It was just no. That's not what we want. Want it. That's not what we wanted in some ways. She recognizes they have the same goal. She wanted to see that statue taken down, but not the way that they were doing it so this transition happens, and then it kind of chaos unfolds. Can you explain a little bit about what happened? In terms, the esscalation that led to the shooting so basically it starts out with people who are. Are Climbing on the statue. There's chanting their some defacing. There's tying assign around it, but things seemed to escalate when somebody takes pickaxe and starts chipping at the I guess it's concrete around ONA's feet with the idea to actually start removing the statue with physical force, and it's a chaotic scene, and I'm reconstructing this from a lot of videos from different angles, but it turns out what happened is. There is a guy who was pushing protesters down. He gets kind of pushed out of the crowd. He allegedly Mesa's some people. He's chased away and in these fragments video. What you see at the very end is he's being chased away from the protests essentially and in the chaos, pulls out a gun and he fires several shots shooting a protester. So what do we know about the shooter and the person that got shot after all the smoke cleared a few days later. What was the story? So the man has been charged with the shooting is actually a former city council candidate? Names Stephen Baca and much as he was carrying a handgun that day he's been very outspoken proponent of open carry I actually found a post on facebook where he was showing up at a city council meeting to talk about a plastic bag ordinance with his handgun in the city council chambers, and the man who shot was an artist and a protester in Scott, Williams Scott Williams is a white guy I'm a native. Americans I spoke with a close friend of his autumn CICCONE. And they were part of the same community of activists and artists. The two of them had gone standing rock together. We don't always see eye to eye. as far as background levels of privilege or access institution, but fundamentally we know what's right and wrong, and we've become very close friends, so he someone who, absolutely in her words, he was a person who was very intentionally recognizing that like as a white person he could put his body on the line in a way that other people may be couldn't and in her view. That's what he did that day. So there's this awful and just be clear. Scott Williams who was shot. He seems to be okay. He's recovering, but meanwhile what is happening with the statue? Yeah, so they did not have a lot of success with that pick, axe and rope. The statue was still there at the end of the night, but the next morning. Kinda similar to what happened in all call day, the government decided that in order to avoid further conflict. They would just take it down themselves so now you've got all the settlers and a couple Spanish soldiers, and then just a little did it in the concrete where on Jatta used to be. And, so in the middle of this one of the things that I started to get tweeted about was the foot shows up. Yeah. So if you recall from the story, the original nowadays statue from up North had its foot cutoff. There's activists that had it been keeping it hidden, and it shows up. So, what was that like? Yeah, this was a moment that you know. I did not see in the live streams and the videos that night I only realized this later. I think when I saw the photograph taken by Simone Romero a New York Times reporter. That was kind of amazing image where. In front of Tigray Park. You saw this black man holding the stolen foot above his head. Is Yeah just kind of like an incredible gesture. To realize that guy was a Brian Hard groove member of public enemy Brian. Hargrove Lea Yorker musician. People like to call me an activist. Most people from my time with a public enemy. That's amazing, and what is his connection? Yea, it will, so it turns out that Brian Hargrove moved to Santa Fe, and his wife and daughter are directly connected to the Pueblos New Mexico his wife's father's from that the suitcase Pueblo, but he kind of just got brought into this fairly recently, he was approached by some activists. He didn't want to give a lot of specifics. Probably won't be a surprise, but the people who are sort of caretakers of the foot asked him if he'd be willing to be part of this protest at jumped right on it, and all his asked to do is come down to the park in an old town to support that rally and to me it was a perfect opportunity to show a unity between black Americans and they've Americans that we can't afford to not see that we have to see that unity, and you know black people in America having gained the focus since this murder of George Floyd, but there are other groups that need the black lives matter movement to succeed because they're not being from and they need. Movement to succeed to give them a better shot to so he and other activists are making this explicit connection between the protest happened across the country. The black lives matter protests, and then also what's happening locally in New Mexico? It's really remarkable to see that that union. Yeah, and I would say everyone. I talked to seize this. They saw these protests as an extension of the Black Lives Matter Protests Ryan definitely saw them as deeply connected as focusing on the same basic lying issues, the same issue of own oppressed people being forced to accept a continued. Oppression and so Brian He talked about how he he showed up at the protest kind of quietly scoping things out when it was still just a prayer vigil, and then at some point at the right moment. Someone gets the foot out. Of the car and sort of orchestrates this moment for him where he can know, take it up and just. Hold it over his head in front of the whole crowd, but at least a few significant onlookers and someone who could snap a photo. And Brian described just what it was like to hold back foot above his head in that moment what I felt. I was I was doing these protests. At. Twenty years old now. My daughter is doing it nineteen. and. This is absurd. That's what I felt. that. She has to do this now. And I realized what my parents vote when I had to do it. So that crossed my mind, I was holding it. It's like wins. Is GonNA end? That's the question right for all of these protests. When's IT GONNA end and is it? Is this same fight can keep being handed down from one generation to the next, and the this country is never done things easy way. It's always done things difficult way. And so now he's got to deal with multiple issues at once when it could have dealt with each one of them when the time was right, although they all distant at the same time, because this country was built. Some blood of the people that are that are now. Protesting. But had a couple of centuries to deal with them. We've never dealt with it effectively. Only to the degree of the nation's comfort. Now countries forced to reckon and in Albuquerque New Mexico that reckoning is really just beginning not only as far as statues that to. They've already brought down the Diego demarcus statue. In Santa Fe, there's talk of other monuments that might come down, but for the activist, the particularly that kind of younger group of activists. They see this as so much bigger than statues I was talking to Autumn Chaconne. you know I asked if down. The statue was a success and that's that's not what she's after she wants to like. Force that institutions, the Albuquerque, museum, the city of Albuquerque Albuquerque Police Department to really deeply question and root out their own systemic racism, are we? We would like all Civic Chutian in the city of Albuquerque I. Mean True The nation throughout the world for start within the city to look at how. They have structural flaws that directly caused economic health disparities within people of color that there're institutional slung that make it hard for people of Color to get a job there to be treated equal to be paid fairly I mean this is complex and were we're seeking actual accountability rather than band-aid solutions, so own Yati may maybe gone, but from the perspective of these activists like they have not won the battle. This is just the tiniest first step. Yeah speaking of first steps. Does Brian Still Foot. So Brian he does not still have the foot. In fact, he says he does not even know where it is. I have no idea. It's not in my possession and I don't even know the person has so. I had no idea as the best answer I can give you. have no idea. Maybe they'll call me to show up with it somewhere else. I don't know, but if that happens I'll call you. Ninety nine percents invisible was blue's this week by Stan. 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Unsolved: West Mesa Bone Collector

True Consequences

00:00 sec | 10 months ago

Unsolved: West Mesa Bone Collector

"This is true consequences nces a true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest Welcome back to chew consequences. I'm your host. Eric Carter Lun Dean. Today I spent some time with a friend of mine named Alex Morris. Alex was interested in discussing the west Mesa bone collector which is a very challenging case to get into especially because it's not salt. There's really no resolution to it so alex down to discuss this case in detail you know. I wish I could tell you that together. We put our great minds to work and we were able to solve this case. Unfortunately that's not what happened and I can tell you though that we did some research We looked at several news stories as well as with Peoria and really wanted to provide you the most honest telling of the story as we possibly could so That's definitely something that is a challenge. it's definitely a challenging case I want to go ahead and think Maya our latest Patriot. Subscriber for your five dollars a month contribution Shen your contribution means so much to me and it also means that I can continue to provide content for each of my listeners. So thank you so much. My if you're interested in supporting this one man show please go to patriotdepot dot com slash true consequences and they are donation amounts as little as one dollar per month. Also don't forget to follow me on social media on Instagram and base book at consequences pod and on twitter at true cons pod more information mation about this episode can be found at www dot shoe consequences dot com finally. Don't forget to rate subscribe and review wherever you listen. Listen to podcasts and telephone about consequences. Thanks for listening. What's Alex Eric? How're you doing? Good how are you. I'm well thank you. Thanks for having me on yeah. I'm glad glad you're here so I've known Alex for let me think about this for a second. I was twenty one so I've known you for eighteen years years. Yeah yeah sounds about right. It's a long time a very long time. We worked together and anyway Alex ingred to join the show and to tell the story of the West Mesa bone collector which is not a story that I wanted to do so. I'm glad that you're the guy that did it. I mean I wanted to do it. Because it's a you know. True Crime Unsolved Onstar situation any Mexico home but I just it's it's intense and it's sad. I guess if I could do the toy box killer I can do this. Yeah that's that one's hard but I will you know. Give my two cents of course perfect. I definitely want to hear how you're GonNa tell me. Educate me about this horrible story. Okay well it's been ten years now since this all went down so between about two thousand one. In Two thousand five eleven women were buried on by unknown assailants in the West Mesa. Can we talk about the West because I think a lot of listeners. That are not from Albuquerque. On that's sure. So I just kind of want to throw the scene out here so albuquerque as you probably know if you've listened to some of the other episodes is the biggest city in New Mexico I think there's probably probably close to a million people just in the Metro area. The city itself I think is maybe five hundred thousand ourselves but it. Is You know what we would consider a large city here in New Mexico but it probably yeah anybody else disagreed with us live in any other big city and the West Mesa just sits to the west of the city. It's out in the desert under some volcano house. Up there there some petroglyphs within like ancient native American drawings on the rocks it can be a very beautiful part of the city. Just because it's so wild and natural end there's coyotes and a bunch of wildlife out there and so a lot of albuquerque residents especially those that live close to the West Mesa. We'll often go running out there on the trails and maybe do some motorcross or four wheeling rolling or whatever and the desert hiking so it is kind of a big part of the city I think in terms of people use it a lot so I think to find ah the bodies out there is a little. Yeah Gary. It's really scary. That's what she's getting how they were discovered them so that began on in February. Second two thousand nine win a lady named Christine Ross and her dog Ruka took their regular walk on the west side. And the dog had had actually found basically femur sticking out of the dirt and so she's noticed it looked kind of suspicious and she took a picture of it. Send it to her sister. who was a nurse? Her sister immediately was like you should notify the authorities and there was about to be a whole bunch of housing development out there and they had to get stopped because of an Arroyo was leaking or something like that. So for those of you that are not from here Arroyo I guess you would call it a wash in other areas so water from the higher elevations when it rains will rush down these Arroyo's into the river and they're like mini riverbeds and they can get pretty intense pretty violent if it rains enough. I'm so sorry I might jump in to take her. Suspicions were confirmed. It started a three month long. DIG At the country's largest crime scene It was equivalent to seventy five football fields. Wow so it's that's huge. That's a big big crime scene. I mean that's like there's one hundred yards in ten seventy any for seventy five hundred yard. Excuse me yards. Wow and they said that they estimated about over forty thousand cubic yards of dirt words. That's a serious investigation. That's crazy. Yeah this is from Albuquerque. Police officer Nadine Hamby said that she stumbled on those bones and end Magin just like happy hiking with your dog. And then you see some random bone sticking out. No no I don't think I could fuck down. It's definitely as a result of the subsequent police. Investigation authorities discovered the remains of eleven women girls and a fetus buried in the site as well there were the ages of fifteen and thirty two and most Hispanic involved with drugs and sex work. mm-hmm according to the satellite photos. Last victim was probably buried in about two thousand five. That's insane. I wonder they had to be thinking right away that it was a serial killer right. I mean uh you would think so and so that I think that would constitute a serial killer under that. You've seen Similarities in the Tamala Judy Young. No no with like sex work. They all the same like you know Profile which is you know. I think we're finding out now that that's kind of an evolving ammo for modern day. Serial killers they go after sex workers people who are struggling with drug addiction as well as you know. We know native women on reservations where it's going to be harder to either miss them or find them or or whatever our It's really sad. It really is and Toria Chaz. She was one of the she was the first one to be identified by the New Mexico. Exco Office medical investigators the dinovite him all basically by dental records to it was her skeleton along with the partial remains of another which were touched off. Damaso search total started. Do you like were you around when like in two thousand nine when all that was. Yeah Yeah Eh Albuquerque ago. It's the I remember. It was scary and then just hearing developed more and more you know they found more they found more bones. It was yeah. I remember watching that on the news at night and it just kept talking about how big the area was they were combing Mosul awesome and lived a hard life. Logging arrester sex work in drugs. Yeah I think I think it's getting better but maybe ten fifteen years ago or are more. It was a lot harder. I think for people who were victims of crime that were sex. Workers are struggling with substance abuse to be taken seriously asli and sometimes it would just be flat out ignored if they were raped or murdered or or anything so I think that's changing a little little bit. You know. Whatever they did in their life they deserve to be monitored absolutely not? I hope that that is improving. Because it's hard enough on the streets for sure these most of these were just kids. You know they're in other twenties. You're just young. I mean the oldest one is thirty two right so these weren't the oldest. One was cinnamon Alex thirty to correct. I guess something incidences woman Alex One of the victims here but it says you cinnamon Alex One of the seven who have been identified so far Before she disappeared in two thousand four told some of her friends that a dirty cop was chopping off heads and this is a direct quote of prostitutes in bearing them on the West Mesa According to a report from the Albuquerque Journal police have not revealed what the causes of what the causative the word to the victims out there so whether the victims were decapitated is not really clear just bones and the exactly but that hasn't stopped rumors from flying wildly on the streets of the city city. That perhaps there's a you know a maniac cop basically And that the police have refused to reveal details of evidence covered at the crime scene and eighteen depict called the bull on ninety two acre site west of the city nor had they speculated about suspects expect except to a Serb residence that if the murders were the work of a serial killer. The perpetrator has either died or moved to another city but despite law enforcement uh-huh and what they say. The mccown excavation has the community on edge for a while now. But you can't expect them to release everything that they absolutely no because that's a little hard. That's how they solved the investigation. They have to keep things close to their vest. Totally agree because you you hear about cases cases all the time where like a serial killer will call and say that they did it and usually the way that they know it's legit and they corroborated as as if they say something that only the killer would have known from the case through the evidence and usually sometimes those things will be held back from media yeah and and held back from the public so in and that makes a lot of soon the frustration. But you can't. You can't expect the police to release all that absolutely See the only one that was actually out of state was a selena Edwards fifteen year old runaway from lot in Oklahoma and she. He's the only African American in the only victim. From out of state. She was a runaway. She was somebody that's GonNa not be either cared about thought about or easily. We found. Yeah absolutely and they used. I think these like satellite imagery to discover when the last one was berry they did is that according to satellite photos last victim was is buried in two thousand and five so they must have just been watching the evolution of that area looking for disturbed dirt and stuff. That's kind of crazy. Well in the tire tracks rex kind of lead to one of hair. suspects actually. We'll talk about this talking about them So the the police do suspect that all the people people were buried by one person or persons. And that's why they're saying it is a serial killer and now the referring to this person as the West Mesa bone collector authorities. He's also believe. The murderers are closely linked to annual state fair which attracts large numbers of sex workers to the area in the fall which I did not realize actually Central anything that brings attention to central avenue can kind of raise that activity up. Especially if it's people oh coming from out of town mix yeah. I used to have run a restaurant central and it was. You would definitely see that increase. No official suspects have been named in connection with the murders and in two thousand ten award up to one hundred thousand dollars being offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the people that were involved that money is never got anywhere. Unfortunately right yeah I think that's the most frustrating part about this case. Is that not only did it end. But there's also never really been any kind resolution for justice for these women lost their lives and they did identify all of them right. So eleven veterans have been identified. I I believe so. Can I just read the victimless police. So we have Jamie Bella. She was fifteen Monica Kandal Ayala. She was twenty two Victoria Chavez. twenty-six Virginia Cloven Twenty four Slovenia Edwards. Fifteen shoes the run away from Oklahoma. Yeah cinnamon elks looks thirty two during Marcus. Twenty four Juliet. Though Twenty Four Veronica Romero Twenty eight Evelyn. Salazar L. is our twenty seven and Michelle is twenty two. She was actually four months pregnant at the time of her. That was her fetus discovered. So that's I mean and for people who are in a true crime in all of that like I think that sometimes it can be a little bit of a fine line. I mean we have to remember. There's eleven women in here who lost their lives. He's a real people with family members and friends and people who cared about them and whether they were struggling with drugs or her they were sex workers whatever they still didn't deserve to just be dumped in the desert like garbage. I think that's what's frustrating about this whole case it's been so long I mean very ten years and there's really no justice for for what happened to these women in his girls growth over this time there's been quite a few suspects that have come about to really stuck out more than anybody. I'm GonNa talk about some of the other ones so fred rentals. He was a pimp who was new missing winning and reportedly had photos of other sex workers and he died of natural causes. Unfortunately two that's nine so there was never any closure there Lorenzo Montoya lives less than three miles from the burial site. So it's convenience right there in two thousand six reportedly tire tracks leading from his trailer to the site. Where all the ladies ladies were buried and injured CIMBER doesn't six? This is a very interesting part of it. Montoya strangled a teenager who is also a sex worker in his trailer but her pimp as slash boyfriend. I believe was outside in the car. And when he saw her dragging her body out he got out of the car in shot and killed him. That's a little too coincidental. Yeah and he died in two thousand six so image and they said the bodies that were there were probably buried about four years so from Orlando Five. Yeah so Dowell makes some sense and in August two thousand. Ten police searched several properties in Joplin Missouri associated with a local photographer and businessman in connection with the West Mesa cases aces. They apparently confiscated tens of thousands of photos from the man. This guy used to visit the state fair all the time. Apparently these were some of the photos that the news and the and the police released everyone just to be able to show One of them was of a Anne also showed About five two six girls Two were just had their bags turn and they looked over their shoulder or whatever but the other ones actually showed ladies that looked like like they could have been strangled to death or were unconscious of some sort. And you can't really tell the photo. Obviously that's creepy. Yes a super creepy. I mean even if if he didn't do it still a scumbag. Why why do you have you have all this sort of like? What are you doing? Tens of thousands of thousands tens of photos. It was like I know I. I'm not letting go but I don't WanNa let this go. This is crazy. Tens of thousands of polaroid pictures of the apparently sex workers from all over. The they don't even know. But five of the May actually thought that might have been from Albuquerque and so they were trying to figure out if these girls were part of that you know. That's one of the big worries in this case is that this isn't the only burial site right and that there may be a lot more out there That haven't I've been discovered quite well and you look at somebody like Israel Keyes as a serial killer. His his motive was just to go like file over the country. This isn't is recused episode. But I just like it makes me think of this because he would bury kits in different parts of the country and then he would go back and he would find somebody and then he would take their body from one state into another state for like cross jurisdictional issues and like. I've always kind of questioned. If the West Mesa bone collector may be was as somebody who was traveling around. You know they were saying you know. The State Fair seemed to be possibly connected to this in writing It just makes me wonder. Maybe it stop because that person didn't come back to Albuquerque for awhile. I mean there's a really good possibility of that. He might have felt like the heat was getting on him and In once the they were discovered he might have said well. I'm not gonna go that place anymore. I won't bury them there. And we'll beer narrow barium in the mountains or out in the desert during the New Mexico is so empty for the fifth largest state by landmass. We have probably the second lowest population the third lowest population. There's a lot of open spaces law disappear. Yeah all right sorry back to uh the next one let's see here in two thousand ten A convicted serial killer. Scott Lee Kimball see that. He was also being investigated for the West Mesa murders but denied killing the women. So that went nowhere in two thousand fourteen a breakthrough in the case caused Albuquerque police to become interested in Joseph belief regarding the murders that had taken place Lee had been dubbed the mid school rapist for his activities in the one thousand nine hundred eighty s and. They said that he would often break into homes thirteen and fifteen year. Old Girls. Who Live near mckinney Middle School in Albuquerque and raped them ship although like a He's a hit and he's still in Prison right now For the crimes he'd previously committed in one case. There was a DNA sample. But the rape kit test. I wasn't rerun until two thousand ten in that eventually linked him to the rape on in two thousand fifteen believe was suspected by police by killing of a sex worker and his DNA sample was located in inner waistband. In belt of a sex worker found dead on central avenue. So I mean all these suspects that we've covered all so far uh-huh they all seem like they could all be responsible. I mean I think the two that really stood out to me or blee and AM on toy. Yeah me too and I think not that I know anything I don't really know but I would say for me. I would say until he was probably the most suspicious. Mostly sleep because when you look at serial killers their behavior they typically will be in an area that's close to where they are not the albuquerque's that big and bleak could be five miles away but yeah he's three miles away. Whoever this person was they knew what they were doing because when they buried the bodies is out there they didn't have the liquor clothing on them is which made it very hard to identify it? I you know so no. DNA evidence would hopefully been left. You know and in four years years that's all can pretty much can disappear anyway. On something they did find was a tree tag from a local nursery and they were. We're able to take that tree tag and take it back to the nursery and find that it actually Kenner went back to blee really. Yes but they still. That's I guess not enough to actually show conviction. Yeah it shows that he was there should be. I mean yeah I mean you would think that'd be a nail in the coffin but it. It didn't didn't really seem to do anything so when did he go to prison. You Know God. has those like dead Chatou. He's a creepy looking guy for sure at school molester case there is so he was convicted of a string of kidnappings rapes use in the eighties nineties. He was convicted in fifteen. But that doesn't say when he was arrested because he could have been arrested in two thousand nine right right. Yeah but still if they didn't find the bones of two thousand nine he stopped and that's why I think monty is more like I agree. I think so as well especially especially 'cause he died in Oh six. Yeah Ben. If that is true in the toy is the the actual bone collector was missing bone collector than I feel kinda bad about it because the won't be saw. They really won't right. We've never known we'll never really know unless there's somebody that knows something. Let somebody you know something that they don't come out about it. Yeah I mean if you know something about this and Joseph's the guy and he's dead. Contact your local police. I mean and let's close this case. Let's do some for the families 'cause They're the ones that are really having to you know suffer with this. Yeah it's horrible closure Hoosier Well I don't think ever closer. It's kind of what I'm learning but there's no at least justice something just just. I think what people want. Maybe I don't know I mean that's what I want in my situation The other thing to think about too is it's neither of those or if his none of those and maybe it's somebody else then. They could be still out there doing this somewhere else or here. Here Albuquerque has quite a few missing people coming up and disappearing insane. Insane Montoya Look like a creep to yeah he has. I sleep like a CREPE. Yeah I just think it's kind of a weird coincidence that he died the year after everything stopped. Killing a certain infects worker strangling usually three miles from the burial Simon of real convenient to speak out. How close it is to city you? You know how close it is shipment. My own home. You know okay. So it says here or in the caption lamantia. A man named possible suspects in the West Mesa case made several homemade sex tapes in one after a period of time. The tape goes dark a few minutes later later shows his bedroom and include with sounds like tape being unrolled. Oh that's Oh that's extremely creepy and and the girl that he strangled. He strangled her with that tape. The one that he died like a he made a like a duct tape rope. Almost they simply said so. Yeah they found a bunch of his ex tapes to. That's that's from the Albuquerque Journal. Yeah that's what I was one of the sexy count is trying the The the voicemail next I got that's that is so spooky. There's something so incredibly creepy about automatic hearing that I didn't I was not ready for that. I wasn't either. I was thinking that it was fake for sure. All right okay. So so. This guy calls a private investigator right and starts leaving voicemails. Yeah this investigator claiming to be the West Mesa bone collector. And I'm calling bs on that. I kind of agree with you. I think is probably someone that's heard a lot about the case and kind of wants to maybe a little Norvir -iety yeah more than anything thing and anytime you see them going directly to either the media or law enforcement whenever you see a serial killer like taunting the police. Yeah I've never I mean. Maybe they do. Maybe they go through private investigators. But that's just there's tons of voicemails from I think I say it's a fake guy. The Guy Yeah it could be just just someone looking for his little fifteen seconds of infamy crazy. I think it's Lorenzo. Ah I I tend to agree. I think Lee would not necessarily fit the whole sub the same memo. He's not doing the the same thing he's not looking for the same kind of victim lead saints just Kinda scumbag that just goes after kids Lorenzo seems more Actually like somebody that might have made this happen either way though like it just it just makes me sick to my stomach because the whole thing so messed up You Know A. There's lots of cases out there and there's lots of Things like this. That happened but this one is it seems to be significantly like a little bit harder to deal with. Just because of the scenario you know eleven women in the fetus found buried in the desert And that's a little bit harder to take than the disarray. The Cole case. I think it's hard. It's a hard case is a lot of people affected by this. I mean I'm hoping that if any of my listeners know anything they've already reached reached out to the police. But if anybody who just happens to hear this you know maybe you know somebody who knows something it would be it would be good just for a family seeks to have some sort of justice in this source you know at least know what happened Yeah the families you know. They're they're angry. I'm sure they're angry. They want their piece I can't imagine and they. I think they're getting frustrated too. You Know Laurie guy goes who was a childhood friend of during Marquez. It said in a nobody has listened to us so for so many years and these these girls all had dreams said one of the father of the missing in no girl wants No girl grows up wanting that and and so oh I think they're the frustration level's pretty high for them. Yeah I mean you have been over ten years now going on Eleven years without any any kind of anything I mean. Some of the families even claim that the local police have made no effort to find them after they were reported. Missing even The women knew each other from Albuquerque's warzone area which is kind of an area healthy international international district's my bad But they were all young Hispanic in many were of them were mothers and they had a high risk lifestyle though. I think that's that's the frustration. Probably for the family members was when when they did go missing because they were the sex workers because they were struggling with drug addiction. They weren't taken seriously and that's kind of the problem talked about earlier that I feel. Maybe I'm wrong. I've been known to be wrong a lot but I feel like it has gotten better in terms of At least from the superficial level it seems like maybe improving. Hopefully his more information about the the the photos. So in December ninety thousand ten Albuquerque police had released six photos of seven other an identified women who may also be linked to West Mesa. Nisa by police would not say how or where they'd obtain the photos and some of the women appear to be unconscious on many share the same physical characteristics as the original the eleven victims on the following day. The police released an additional photograph of another woman and this woman was subsequently identified by family members. Who reported that she had died of natural causes previously so then on December thirteenth two thousand ten police reported the two of the women in the photos had been identified as alive and could have viable information if they could be located? They know they're alive but they don't know where they are. Apparently this and this is from the guy that had the tens of thousands of hake sure. Okay so I think they started to kind of like figure out some uh-huh okay so that would make sense because he was in Missouri and maybe those women were somewhere else right. Okay okay frequent here during the state fair so the So this is definitely the largest Or most notorious serial killer in Albuquerque. Maybe not in New Mexico because I think David Parker Ray takes the cake. How many victims did he had these? They don't really know do yeah but they suspected he was killing him for forty years. She's so well in that. You know this person that did this like I said they. They could have have bail sites all over victims worked on this for a long time. But it's it's just one of those cases in you would think with eleven people. There would be something some shred of evidence you know. Maybe it is that little tree tag. That's one piece of evidence that could really unlock this whole case. Yes but with the situation the way it is. It's pretty difficult. The other thing too I think like if it was blee. Don't you think he would have tried to like get some kind of plea deal or something I mean. Maybe but they the the She's only a suspect. They don't have any direct evidence to like nail it to him to be able to say when it's not like we have the death penalty in they can't really like take that off the table for him or anything. He's just going to be imprisoned dude. I'm sure he'll be in prison present for a long time on anyway. That's just scary. Has Been in the most frustrating thing is. They just don't know. Aw who did it. I still think it's Lorenzo unofficial unprofessional. I would wanted to agree with that. I really do He just seems like it's a little too perfect. It's just such a weird coincidence. You know my opinion but well that was rough draining. Yeah but who knows maybe maybe somebody you know something out there. I have hope that one day it will be solved. Mickey awesome well. I think that's I think we got it. Yeah I don't know thanks for having me on the show today Eric. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening. Stay Safe New Mexico. Thanks again for listening to true consequences. Follow us on on social media on instagram and facebook at true consequences pod and on twitter at true cons pod true consequences is hosted written and produced by me your host. Eric Carter Line Dean. Thanks for listening and stay safe New Mexico

Albuquerque New Mexico West Mesa Lorenzo Montoya Albuquerque Journal West Mesa Alex Eric Eric Carter Line Dean twitter Alex Alex Morris rape Oklahoma Scott Lee Kimball Mexico Alex ingred Peoria Joseph
NM Forgotten Child - Jacob Jeremiah Landin

True Consequences

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

NM Forgotten Child - Jacob Jeremiah Landin

"Missing persons cases is seventeen year old. I'll listen Murray turney. Us Attorney was attorney. Bless attorney on this episode tackle mystery out of Phoenix Arizona with a lot of disturbing twist and turns seventeen year. Old Eliza Attorney managed Willis Attorney Eliza Attorney Eliza Murray turney disappearance turning. Today's a really exciting episode. Because we are talking about the case of Liz Attorney Today we are doing a Whiz. Attorney Attorney. Alyssa terminate listen Seventeen Phoenix Arizona. And someone reach down to either and said would you please cover the story of missing sister of ever since I have essentially been contacts daily with Sarah. Her name Sir. Attorney and her sister is elicit do the foods to elicit disappearance boys much most review home. Michael watching his own children looks very disturbing than a a warehouse another fenced off to the people that whether it was awful my name is Sarah Turney and you might have heard of my sister story before I promise. Never heard like this analysis for justice and going to tech deep into like never before am going to interview people. You've never heard from and going to expose more about the police my family and myself than ever. I must acknowledge that. He wasn't briefed on the case. Which you're not going to do I understand but he was. He said that he was aware that there were no sexual allegations. Which completely crazy to me. Because there's over twenty five coal in your documents alleged us so when he says that I don't know what he's talking and held back a lot for a long time and I'm ready to release on my own terms at least told me my best chances media exposure and I've been working years to amplify my voice through others but now I'm ready to make some noise subscribe to voices for Justice. Today on I tunes and most podcast players allegations were Sherry. Thanks reached certain there were no whatever you'd like to say. I'm not going to go round and round. It's all emails public record. And I'm happy with This is true consequences. He true crime and mystery podcast with stories based in New Mexico and the American desert. Southwest the following episode discusses themes which may be difficult for some listeners. It deals with issues of domestic violence child abuse neglect and child murder listener. Discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence. Please call the national domestic violence hotline at One. Eight hundred seven nine seven to three three to report child abuse or suspected. Child Abuse. Please call one eight five five. Three three three safe or dial pound S. A. F. E. FOR MY MOBILE DEVICE. New Mexico has never done a great job of protecting children from child abuse. This is an issue. We as a community cannot seem to figure out according to statistics released by the Child Youth and Families Division in New Mexico in two thousand eighteen. Fifteen out of every one thousand kids in New Mexico we're victims of abuse and neglect in two thousand seventeen. That number was twenty five out of one thousand to put things in perspective. The national average in two thousand eighteen was only nine out of one thousand cases and in Two Thousand Nineteen Albuquerque Journal article. Dan McKay states only three states had a higher rate of child maltreatment New Mexico in two thousand seventeen the most recent year for which data is available. I have said over and over again on this show but the problem of child abuse and Child Murderer. New Mexico is not new. These challenges and issues continued to plague New Mexico to this day and they will continue to be an issue unless we are willing to face it and address it. This episode is very close to home for me. It is a story of why started the show. It is the story of the murder of my brother. Jacob from thirty three years ago season two true consequences will feature stories. Like this in a new segment called New Mexico's forgotten children on April tenth nineteen eighty-seven. My Mom Brenda was working her shift at a local grocery store in Socorro New Mexico. She received a call from my grandmother stating that she needed to leave my baby brother Jacob somewhere so that she could go to church. My mom only had an hour left on her shift and figured my brother could safely be left with her boyfriend at the time shortly after my brother was dropped off. My Mom's boyfriend runs frantically into her workplace to let her know that my brother was on the way to the hospital. I start this episode. Speaking with my mom and walking through the details of the case at one point she becomes unable to continue as she is overcome with emotion. I will step in and continue the story for her then. We will resume the interview. I'm hoping that this episode will get people talking about the issue of child abuse in New Mexico. I did not initially want to release an episode about my brother because I was worried that it would be too intense. I now realize that by telling my story. I am breaking my own stigma related to this issue and if this story can help just one child in New Mexico or anywhere else then. It was all worth it. I'm Eric Carter. London and this is true consequences. Why don't we start with you telling me about Jacob which you remember him remember? He was funny. He liked to laugh and he liked to pull Jordan. Michael Silverware. Flail is silly. Boy Is really smart for being a baby. It was so smart ridiculous. I remember accused to take the swing and whenever between forward he would grab the front legs of the baby swing in the whole thing backwards. Just lay there and laugh Ted. Flip it over and he'd be like his little laugh. Laugh was amazing is brought me. Choi to stay here. Who so happy. Happy little baby while big baby. Big This big is ten pounds like huge me. I remember Got Pregnant and I told you mom. I'm going to have a brother and he didn't believe me. Thought IT WAS GONNA TO BE. A girl boy. Sure you're right. I love that little kid. He was really level. I just remember I wanted him so bad. I wanted to further so bad like I was so desperate dance to the Music Stereo and Walker and he would be moving is on and ask him what he wanted to scream. Even though he couldn't talk is screaming at me. 'cause I didn't get his and Do you remember how old he was when you dad split up here. His policies month navy. Think about six months. And we've moved from Texas not so it could be with family. 'cause I in Texas so I just remember. I don't know if this is like a real memory or not but I remember before even before Jacob and this isn't really probably the episode to be slamming my dad but I remember how difficult it was for you because it would just be you me. Yeah it was hard good. He was never around really who would go with his friends before we will come back afterwards. Slowly really wouldn't see them renew thinks he didn't think you know have a family. I need to feed it. Just the boat hisself is when I remember there were times where you were worried about feeding me and taking care of me. It was heart was little late. That lived in department really enough. You remember but we will take a walk every day and we would pray for God to help us defeat us. apartment complex by Food on the doors every time she would lesser Plus we've got everything you wanted to fix all the way down to the beef. He's everything we need. It was in that bag and got put her. There are angel. Serially out out. If if you hurt her or she came up. There was one lady put food on our door almost everyday. It's really I mean. I can't imagine how difficult it was for you as a mom and then just knowing that your husband without doing whatever it didn't matter the only matters you add k. Elliott a place to go. Nothing else mattered. I think the only reason I bring this up is because I am and it's important to set the picture of what was going on in our family. You know when we left my dad and he essentially would abandon us for days and days at a time and then call and be like bragging about eating lobster and steak and stuff. Do you remember that? Yeah he is ridiculous. It just wasn't grown. You wouldn't think about anybody like I said I guess he's naive selfless selfish. That's how they raised Mike. Adam would happen when I was like maybe three or four. I don't even know why I remember this. And if like making this up tell me but I remember one time. He wrote like washing the dishes. And you were just crying and I I remember I went up to you and I said mom I'm grown up. I'm going to be better than my God. I'M GONNA take care of my family. You did your smart beyond your years got got the whole picture not just part of it your mortgage loan than we were in your mind in your thoughts and had it all too well. I think I've always had a sense for what's just and what's not and I knew that wasn't right. That wasn't fair and it wasn't okay. Yeah so I understand. I guess is what I'm saying. Why why you decided to take us home why you decided it was better and I think it was. The right choice was hard because if I can work and take care of everybody I might as well come on. Man Do it here. We have had family people care instead of on buddy except you know and that one lady did. I don't even know what God bless so Jacobs like six months. We come back over here. Already started seeing. We were just talking like a weasel this way until my life basically because it was tell me lies They were would tell me. You know stuff to make me question. You're dug in all like he's calling Behind your back and isn't that I look at the phone Bill Insurance of Near but I didn't know he was using it to try to get me away from him like conniving kind of way just like was plane and plotting and thinking how it could get us to break up your end. Human pretty much did it. 'cause he left his wife. I left here doubt in. I don't know how it happened. But he weasels his way into my life. I started talking to them. I didn't even know what happened. I never really liked him but he was there. He Lake manipulated his way in. It sounds like he knew what to say in how to say. I think it's important to know that he was my dad's best friend. Yeah that's the whole thing. Liz in Ohio. It was using your debt to try to hurt me and he was your dad's best friends. I wanted to get back at him and the best way I could think of is in his best friend I would hurt him the best instead of hurting him. I put myself anew in predicament. That and Jacob we can couldn't escape yeah but you can't take responsibility for the actions of a psychopath. It's not your fault Lay Myself. Herman years but I've come to realize that it's not my fault. You have no control over his behavior. He and I remember when I first met him. I think like we went to his place to watch movies one night and he was like so charming and so fine like I remember all the. Oh I like this guy. He's actually interested in. He's talking to me and he you know so. I like anybody would have fallen for that. Anybody would have seen that as a good thing not saw through that because he was really good as good con at hiding who he really was. Yeah I don't know how many years is done. But here's a pro at making itself. Look good and making people feel comfortable around him and I think we have to learn some of those skills later as well. So you're you're giving him a hand in my life is in your life no matter what have been his way into my life. Even though I didn't like him and he conned me into you know I don't know I guess I kinda liked him on. Kinda believed him after a while because he was a good call an artist. He lied to me. I told me everything on Erica's I feel like everything moved pretty quickly. Before I knew it we were living with him. Yeah he was like. I don't know I'd even explain it. He just like some animal waiting to pounce Basically see what you mean. It's like he was waiting. He saw an opportunity in the trouble that you were having with my dad and and took advantage of it a sickly. Yeah that's still stories. He took advantage of me when I thought in. Hey really cared the most vulnerable to. Yeah and he didn't carry never but that doesn't matter for my listeners. Want them to know that we're not going to use his name. The person who's responsible for so much trauma in my family's life we just don't feel like first of all it's not a closed case it's still open even though its cold and I don't want to jeopardize any of that but also he's really not worth any mention or acknowledgement of WHO. He is Is As far as I'm concerned? He's just a piece of shit child killer so I think it again. If you need to take a break we're going into some heavy stuff here in a second so shortly after things started happening to Jacob it was like stuff stuff would have been like. It was sunflower flowers shells in his bed his crib. He was getting hurt. All of a sudden Unexplainable reasons and basically what he told me was lies. He told me that my son Knew Jacob in the head when he was walking by that he happened to see it. And this and that. But that wasn't true. He was obsolete I believe he hitting him every time he got a chance. Every time we turned our back he was hurting my child. Your brother I remember being blamed I remember being very confused and you know I think you know me better than most people and especially at that age really wanted to make everybody around me happy and so I think I said what people wanted me to say or what was being set to agree with them. Because I don't want to cause problems but not made you say that because he said for you not to lie stuff like that so I think he coerced you to say stuff. That wasn't really happening to cover his own. But Y- this point for me I wasn't. There was no abuse towards me yet from him like that he was still throw in. Yeah he was still relatively nice to me and would hang out and nothing. I don't remember him hitting me or or any of that at this time Touch you because he knew he would tell me about five. Yeah I think if almost six kindergarten time I remember I that because I remember love my kindergarten teacher. She was so cool and then I had to go to California and get any teacher. It's not I felt that I needed to remove you because even if something would happen I don't want you to be blamed and I knew that he would use No matter regardless and you told him that it was because you wanted to keep Jacob safe for me just because that's what he wanted to hear so you call me that I caught. You doubt my said you know this. This is happening. I don't know what's going on. I Want Eric removes situation. 'cause I just I couldn't understand what was happening and I knew what you were doing anything to your brother because you loved him. He's lived a little boy and I kept hearing you know. He dropped me victim about the Kirby dropped him. I walked by. He kept him. You know everything was like Erik did this. Eric did that and Eric. So jealous and you know it wasn't true and so I had to make sure that would happen. You're protected teacher He needed to get away from that situation. And that's all they knew that that time. Yeah but you also had some suspicions. I think I did and moment out. Did they told me? In a way as bump zip one day I rushed him to the ER data. Drain is hit. The doctor never told me in. Somebody's feeding them. Nothing they just took care of it meant syndrome and didn't really explain nothing to me and I was lost in confused. I didn't know what to do or who to turn to while it was like nineteen eighty five or six six thousand eighty six. So I don't know what the reporting laws were like back then for was nothing like it is now because they didn't have the Whatever or if even if they did they left that you you know they wouldn't help you make a joke out of it. WanNa talk about the time that grandma put him on her shoulders. Do you remember that? Yeah kind of she just liked didn't put her mom shoulder Lifted them above like you do baby. Shia. Pick them up. He didn't want no part of that at all. He was terrified that he and I win a night. When I got home I asked him. Why is Jacob so scared? Are you playing off them? What's going on? He's like out? Would you mean talking about antelope? Put him up a little bit and he started screaming at me. And just like freaking out. I said this is what I mean. You know. No baby should act like that. Why is he doing that? And he's just like Louis. He always does that whenever I do. Play with them like that any got you. Don't take him away from me and tried to do that. In Jacob was just screaming wouldn't stop added. Just take him away from him. I told him. Don't you ever ever play with my son liked that by ever? Catchy I swear to God over to and you know he said oil won't and I won't. I don't know everything came out of his mouth as lie so I think that's important for people to understand why we're so adamant that this is the person that did this Aside from the fact that he tried to blame a six year old boy all of this stuff Jacob like you talked about it a little bit. Before but Jacob was not a `fraidy cat. He was not a scared kid. He was crazy he was highlighted enjoyed. Like crazy stuff. Yeah being thrown around and stuff like that before. The city came into the picture. Like I even talked about how you pick up the whole swing with him. You said he pulled the Silverware Drawer Open. All I remember all the knives enforce member next so much nice. Nothing scared him so for him to act. That way was out of the ordinary for him. Because he wasn't he had no fear. Exactly that should bring red flags to anybody if their kid acts like scared of anything like that. They're holding onto you tight pitch into that. That's a sign. A real big slain. You I was twenty six and stupid of aluminium but pay attention to how they're reacting and what they react to because that'll tell yeah he So I remember. I don't remember a lot from that. I remember being in California. I remember going to school there I remember my God and I were like staying in Like almost like a garage if someone's house in bunk beds. I don't even know I think. Here with Nikki. Somebody Nina will take to school Chair I used to sit in the front her wheelchair and she would so I knew okay so I was okay with you being there for a little bit but I wasn't GonNa leave you there forever. I just wanted to see what would happen to get you out of that blaming game. He was plane. 'cause I didn't believe that on the words took didn't stop quick stuff got worse. You Know Jacob try to put him down he would just hold onto me titanium neglect goal. And you know that's something that people need to hear if you take your child's Licko. There's a reason as first sight. I didn't get it. I thought he just he didn't WanNa let me go. Because that was he was terrified. He was scared was holding on. It wouldn't WanNa let me go and I didn't understand why at all it was. Just a nightmare you know. And I didn't know opening had a job it's super smart and your golf and everything you know. He operates Before you left in I wanted to make sure you weren't blamed up and so I was at work and my mom called me about our before. It was going to get out and she said I want to go to church. What do I do with the baby or take him? And I didn't know what to do. There's no cellphones. There's no whatever only worked and I said I guess take him to Boyfriend. He was he was my boyfriend. Take him to him. I said it's only an hour before. Get out what can happen. Our exact words regret those words during that hour. I have also never told anybody. Analysis begging begging might manage. Please please go home. It's not busy. You don't need me here. He just laugh at me and say now go. Do this go do that and so I just made myself pretty and I just made myself work. Got a little bit busy. So jerking out a customer. I heard ambulance by but the move on in the store. He said Ambulance Already do you make a good? He's gotTa go. GotTa go and I just ran out of customer. They're out. I just left at I got to the ER and my mom and dad knew how they got there. And Jacob was in rural and I walked and I touched my baby is just and it took a tape I can you mama was always there with him. Data fly into Albuquerque. They took him to Presbyterian and the injuries were so pet them to you now trauma center so it became very difficult for my mom to continue discussing. Jacobs murder she really had a challenging time just getting through emotionally and I don't blame her for that. It's one of the most dramatic things that ever happened to her. I promised my mom that I would jump in here and share with you. The rest of the story. So Jacob was airlifted to the University of New Mexico Hospital and he was rushed into emergency surgery. He didn't make it. He died shortly after they took him in for surgery and he succumbed to his injuries. I'm going to do another episode after this. It's going to go through a lot of the legal documents that were created during the investigation of what happened to my brother. It's enough for me to say that. It was very clear that Jacob died as a result of a blow to his head and the medical examiner said that it was probably an open hand about the size of a man's hand. He also said that these injuries that he experienced the symptoms that he experienced after he was hit in the head likely would have started half an hour after it happened shortly after my grandmother. Dropped off my brother to my Stepdad. My stepdad him. In the head and within thirty minutes he was starting to vomit and convulse and went into a coma. The reason I say this because it was literally within minutes of being dropped off that he shows up at my mom's work and my mom. Here's the ambulance going by so from my perspective as a six year old was sleep in my bed in California. My Dad woke me up to tell me that there had been a terrible accident and then my brother was being rushed to the hospital. I didn't really understand what happened. But my dad told me that. I needed to get my stuff together so that we could go back to New Mexico. I believe it was that same morning. We jumped on flight and went back to Albuquerque. I remember that there was a state police officer along with my mom and my grandmother waiting for us at the airport as soon as we got. My Mom told me but it happened. Jacob pass away overnight. My sweet little brother was gone and I'll never forget that day. I'll never forget that feeling so what happened. Next was a little bit challenging for me to understand because I was so young but my mom ended up staying with her boyfriend at the time and things just got worse from there so we'll go back to the conversation. I had with my mom to talk about this so you can hear exactly what happened after Jacobite. I'm just can't even imagine what kind of monster it takes to to hurt somebody. A little rock can't even heard anybody and not only that like maybe we're biased. But he was like he was so sweet and so like funny and happy and like he was such a good kid was even though he was a little bit crazy tests not Beat him to death just because he's a baby. There's no excuse for that as just like animal. Animal would hurt child like that. I don't understand still to this day. I don't I don't agree I ever will understand. I don't think I don't think we ever will because I don't think that we have the capability to be that evil in inside of us. You know like I think you to understand. That won't on to hurt on that as your queen and they couldn't 'cause I'm not that person will never get it. How can you hurt somebody? That can't even fight back. Kenyan Wednesday help me does doesn't make sense that you have so much hatred in yard. He would just dispose of a baby trash Freakin said. I almost feel like everything he said about me and what he thought like I feel all of that was basically him? He was jealous of Jacob. He that's exactly right everything he said he was doing. He would blame me for going on. He was chasing after thirteen year. Old Kids stocking kids that I knew everything that he accused me of. He was doing everything accused he was doing. He was doing at all he just thought he would. Never get called is so slick fly through smart. Yeah he's still above the law and never gonNA get caught on. He had all those connections with the cops working for the county access to all the files they disappeared. I'm not really comfortable asking you these questions because I know Whatever you WANNA know. I'm willing to answer. I just don't want you to feel like I. I don't blame you for anything that you did. And and don't feel bad just whatever you want to just ask me 'cause I'm not gonNa Take Lake Lake. You think I just have to get the story out you know and so you have to know. That's why I'm willing to talk to you so You know it's you've told me this already. I just need you to say it for this purpose but like why did you stay with him? After the only thing that I cared about is finding out what happened to my son. I didn't care about anything else I just wanted to know the truth. I wanted to know what happened to Jacob and I stayed with him because like I said I wanted to hurt him. Like the way hurt me and my mind wasn't right. I wasn't thinking right. If ever known he was like that I would never ever ever been around him that I didn't know he hit it so good. He told me everything I wanted to hear you. So charming on such a con artist that I really thought he loved me. He didn't love me he just wanted to use me. And you know. Keep that over my head for three years He abused me. He put a knife to my throat. He said only way I was going to get away from him would be the body bag on. You have a dagger to your throat in this area leaving after they beat you and put a dagger to your throat and say that to you. Of course you're going to say no. Are we gonNA stab you in the throat and kill you right there? It's scary while I remember and maybe I'm wrong but I feel like after Jacob died. There was a good two or three years where it was relatively calm. He was just like he hit. He wouldn't even come around me for a week. After Jacob Dies I had to go look for him to see what's going on. I didn't know what was going on. Or what happened or all kept saying it was an accident. It was an accident and meet me at the graveyard so I could talk to you. Why am I gonNa meet him at the graveyard when he put my son? Undergrad in on thinking he's GonNa kill me over there where I read. That is in the festive report and really weird. That he I mean even for him. Not just once but over and over and over anyone Graveyard to top team at the baby. So creepy like that is sick. Yeah who murdered somebody an antipsychotic? The mother of the child you murdered to the grave of the kid doesn't make sense at all. That's just like what became understand that a psychologist or anything. But I just I always try to figure you always think about that. Like what what your take is. I can't there's no logic in that nothing to wanting to kill me. I still think he wants to kill me. But I'M GONNA speak my truth no matter of a project. Peter Novel Voice Deserves. One and I couldn't for the longest time even talk about it. When did he start hitting? After Jacob died everything changed after. I don't know what he told me that he had to get married to me because he filed some kind of papers he was going to go to prison and Viggo story. I don't know what it was. But he conned me into Marianna married him. What the JP. After all of it was over I wouldn't ask the judge for an annulment and I was granted one because it was so violent that nobody deserves is what the judge said so erased from every three years after the fact though that was almost three years it was eighty seven until nineteen ninety and every time we kept telling me tell you what I wanna tell you what really happened and he never did when I finally got the autopsy twenty forty pages long. It is 'cause I can't get through it and it's all outlined eight. They're spread happen to him. I don't know how much of this you know. After Geico Diet things started changing. Obviously hitting you and I remember I think we were still on the other side of the freeway. Still Kinda seem to be reversed living deco diet collecting. It was really in a single wide at that time before we the double weight on and I remember one day. We're going to go somewhere as a family with it was like you me. His hits have and you guys were fighting the night before and you were all like black and blue bruises on your arms. Your I was blacks. I remember we were all lined up almost like like. We're in the military all for us. And he was walking back and forth and he said if somebody asks what happened to your mom what are you going to say over and over and over again until I said this answer that he wanted and until it was perfect and until he believe me I almost felt like he was kind of like brainwashing us And also he would like get in my face you like. If you fuck this up on GonNa kill your mom the real quiet so that even his kids can hear it but he was like right in front of my face. There's a lot of things that happen that I never told you because he always threatened to kill us and I believe in. I believe resume grave. I knew he was definitely capable of it like there were times when when it was just him and I it. His kids were with their mom. And you're at work or something. This was like in the double I on mainstream. I wouldn't be allowed to leave my room all day like I couldn't even go to the bathroom and I remember. I had all this stuff in my room and I thought it was like. Oh Lucky Kid. I have a TV. Haven't intendo refrigerator. I have all this stuff in my room that most kids don't have but I think that was his way of imprisoning me make hostage. Yeah and so I would have to knock on my door and I'd have to ask permission to the restroom. And if he felt like I didn't really need to go than I didn't get to go in it gets worse. Sorry it's a lot worse and I didn't tell you not because I trust you because I want you to fucking die. You know a one time. He locked me in my closet. Put the dining chair against the door so I could get out of it because he was mad at something. I don't remember what it was but I couldn't be in my room. I had to be in the closet. I never told you feel bad about that. But I also didn't want us to kill either. He's always trying to save our lives up like and I remember always feeling like walking on eggshells. Do you remember when he would get mad if I gave him? What he thought was a dirty look. Clean the bedroom is cycle. Good massacre just any little wrong movement. Say something wrong. Do something wrong. Health breaks we. I mean we didn't. We really did anything wrong. Ever you know what I mean like I don't feel like Deserve that yeah. He's the one with the problem time where he'd be like. Stop looking at me like that and I just looked down. Spent a lot of time just looking at the floor because I was afraid that if I even just looked at him the business are beating the show. Get locked in my room. You know what I mean like. It was gonna be the same shit. It was even about you. It was just anything I it wasn't if felt guilty moment. Beat on me because of what he was doing wasn't even like nothing to do with us though. Is that like we never knew what was going to send him over the edge. It literally could be anything or nothing sometimes. Feel tired. Caveat to psychopath Be prepared because you never know I mean it explains alive why. We're both the way that we are in a Lotta ways you know. We're very looking both be very reactive and very emotional about being in its makes sense that we would have those reactions because we seem fucking look at him. Yeah can't even move without we glean what did you do in even just like the way? I ate anything and I think that really caused me to have a lot of hatred for myself because I felt like I was bad in damaged and wrong. I started to believe that they put it into so much the Every time something would happen he would always say finds out about this. I'm GONNA kill you. your mom and I slept with had a can of Auckland in a wider and a steak knife under my pillow and a bat under my bed scary but I knew I needed to do something to protect myself and I don't know if you remember this one time the middle of the afternoon and he locked me and his kids in our room and he was being the shot you for a long time and then you stop screaming and I broke out of my room window. Busted the screen window out and throwing rocks at your room window in my life saves joking me Dwyer pinker. Because I get a NIMMO's GonNa leave now is GonNa leave took me till almost jumped out the window got me must I remember? He chased me out of the House and I ran across the street to the neighbors. Those friends with that little boy and I was begging on the door. Mclamb be He's GonNa kill me. Let me he's GonNa kill me nipple inside. They already knew what was happening. I think they had to ice creams like nobody would ever hope there was a state. Cop living in employer. Maybe three houses away far enough not to hear. She pulled me in the house and she loved me. Ah Her parents all got along. Used to go right to the little white here a good kid and I remember as a call the cops. He's GONNA kill us. Nineteen ninety problems moved into that other trailer Gift him feel like he wasn't being as violent as the devil. I was the worst. I don't know why but he went cycle in there. All the time like Japan is days healthy smile in the next to kill you literally wonder what the Hell is going on because I feel like after we moved to that single wide calmed down. A Lot could save is busy stuck in somebody else instead of us. My cousin change at the bus. Stop to all kinds of stupid stuff. So she was fourteen thirteen if he was making like. Lewd Calls Colleen Come over at work. He thinks she's Thirty and I get mad at him because he's always staring at her in all this garbage. She is my little Savior Tsu. A tough is. She told me and she told him in his face. He was very outspoken. My family yeah yeah. She didn't Care Mirror right there for God in Harry. And that's what you need is to help you get out before they kill you. Yeah somebody that's GonNa stand up and tell you the truth in front of their face and then just don't care come hell or high water is coming out. I think she saved. Both of us did even though she knows she does because she went with me when I left him. Took the club Kurt and I took my sister That's all I needed as her in our big mouth. Then I go to get around on you I'm really grandly godly. I'm grateful for her for because I think if we would've stayed there I would have never told you anything. I don't think aloud it. She really didn't have any reason to be afraid because she says she didn't know what happening. And I think even if I think if she was there she would have still told you to melting often the whole time. Yeah I'm not GonNa say that to them. I'M NOT GONNA lie for you. I'm going to tell you hit her. Like that's exactly as you would be exactly. Don't care here the reason we're most scared Reason don't take communicate. You won't kill your mom lately especially Larry killed your brother so I asked this question all the time and honestly I don't know how to answer it but I think it's a question. We both probably ask ourselves all the time. Which is how is he still free. Who knows that's just like. Why did they never press charges or do anything questions somebody end? Just let them go after. They admit what they did ridiculous. I don't understand it still. I was shocked. I was reading the investigation report at the end. Where it says. Certain officer told the investigator. The ally detector test would not be necessary in as much as they attained confession. But they still do it. It's still did a lie detector tests that he felt Mentions the confession plice Solo Doughnuts into why they covered up. Yeah minutes right there in black and white lake. I don't understand Hematoma and subdural Hematoma. But I know that's not something good all those injuries he sustained. I'll understand Terms but if he basically was bleeding inside of his hilly's Tepe yet and he he hit him will Wentz in there were the medical investigator of the investigating officer. There's a couple of other people that sounded district in very clear. Yes homicide side by his. It's right there light intake do something else key need. I don't understand how he never. He never even had a grand jury trial. Nancy let alone a prosecution. Trial had nothing in never had to answer you. Said he did one night in jail one night and then he was gone. The next day is daddy took him out. Let's in then you go hide. That's not a guilt. That's so I know you were like pressuring the DA after you left him to do something. I always pressuring wedding raising hell. I just didn't understand why Still am I wrote letters. I never got responses and I just didn't know what to do once I could talk about it and I didn't know he was a liar and everything he said was once I got out of see one thing that amazing about you amazes me still using your probably the best person I've ever seen at documenting things like I don't know anybody that's as good as you at that. The reason why I know it's your smart about it when you go to to to court and you're trying to get a restraining order on somebody and you say well he hit me. What Day did he hit? But time we couldn't a stupid question is like he's breathing on me and you want me to check the time and check today like seriously so once. They did that to me. Forget it all right down so I read through a lot of your notes and a lot of it took me to back remember those days. I remember him like being right by my window. Saying Shit to me through the window I like. I'M GONNA fucking kill you all this shit when I was like eleven or twelve skill. China's Dacas I used to be so afraid like I would sleep under my bed. Remember Orange Bump Like an turtles IRA blanket pillowcase. And the trash can and the curtains but he'll be like under the bottom. Bunk are in heroin or your room. And you're like I don't know if you remember but my personality like who I am now. I was not like that. When you're really scared let's kick top can allot. You've changed. A lot became eric. Instead of trying to make you be or make you confess to her. Whatever is trying to do. I don't understand that either. 'cause remember remember. Get Mad at me because I would apologize like all the time for nothing. I was like I literally walk around saying. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry can meet. You feel like everything you did is wrong. Westbound everything even breathing. I guess reading eating having my eyes open just existing So yes I remember. I used to get in trouble because people yell at me for saying sorry. Not Sorry though. Things are too much in like I just come to. I was a scared little boy you know I was. Thomas is now. There's no other way to say I contact with anybody like I remember when you started dating bad and let me make eye contact. I wouldn't WanNa shake anybody's hand and like before all that. I was a happy. Hyper Reagan boy. Little Kid in to watch everything you did say choir and plays all kinds of stuff. Yeah it took me. I think it's a good year or two before I finally started to come out of that yet to realize that I wasn't good nickelback. Damn ever go scared of that for sure. There's no way I would go back to something like that around that time to do the other stuff. You did talk about her. Yeah that's why 'cause you opened up to me. You never had before mental out to me. I mean it's not to say that. He's a physical mental and sexual abuser to goods. But sadly and a psychopath and the merger murderer and a child abuser stirred number. Juan hurt somebody. That can't even defend herself. That's sad person so I know that for for you and me. We've been sitting on this for thirty years. We both have really. I think had a hard time. I are all family Our whole family changed after Jacob died like even everybody even the way they interacted with us as family changed relationships that we let them change a he literally perverted every aspect of our lives. Checked literally destroys even with our own family. And so you know. Of course we love our family still in. We're not we. Don't blame them for anything. It's hard to. I don't know how I would react in a situation like that either It was shocking. It was so shocking for everybody because everybody loved Jacob needs healthy. There's no reason for that. Tappan and I don't think our family had experienced anything like that at that level ever before that people got sick and died. But we've never experienced like murder you know when you go in with somebody you gotta check them and you go to school with them. You think they're normal. Are Normal visitors self to the world is normal but inside they really a- jekyll and Hyde Monster Killer in Austin sounds good molefi but it's for real and they can just go on every day in not even blink twice about it. I don't get it. You know people that I know that I'm close to when I said I was GonNa do this episode when I did the podcast first of all and I talked about Jacob. A little bit of people were like. You didn't tell me they wrote. It was murdered. Yeah I didn't I don't I don't walk around talking about this all the time. You don't not a topic of conversation. It's it's not something that I enjoy talking about is not something that I am comfortable talking about. Honestly because it hurts so much and Even the safety of my mom's house. It's still hard. It still hurts. It still yeah so you know. I just get so mad when I get accused of using Jacob's death to make money or to gay Mitchell ever like I don't want any of that care about pat like I'm losing money on this podcast and it's not about that at all in fact. The only reason I'm doing this the only reason I'm telling the stories because I think is important for people to understand that New Mexico has always always failed at taking care of children and that all of this stuff that's happening that has been happening. The only reason we're more aware of it now is because we have the Internet and because we have news instantly at our fingertips. This stuff has been happening forever. New Mexico his failed kids forever in a lot of ways. We're lasting education where I in child abuse. You know. We have so many horrible statistics and you know the fact that people are getting away with. It is not surprising to me getting that. It's not and so the only reason I'm doing this while maybe there's two the first reason is I want people to pay attention. I want people to be fucking outraged. This is continuing to happen. I want people to stop not carrying about what's going on around them because they don't like politics or whatever because it's like if we continue to ignore this shit it's GonNa just keep getting worse. So that's the first part. The second part is I fucked want justice. I Want Justice for Jacob. I agree I want him to pay for what he did to my brother here in our in the after to. Yeah I want him to pay for what he did to you and to me and to our cousin my cousin he not be allowed to live a happy life free of any worries at all. There's no reason for it. There's no excuse he should arrive in prison. We have to go to town. Wonder if we're GONNA see him or not like that's just disgusting. He's free in happy. Go lucky he got away with it too ridiculous. His family read something documented. Where somebody I won't say their name but they approached you came to my house. Thousands lead over there on Lease Lopez let the things that at present. She knows to knows exactly what happened and she knew. See my paperwork. She knew she said a couple of times. We tried to warn you not to be with him. We tried to tell you when you didn't listen to accept and they never did with Zamin. She knows she. He's the cycle. I Dunno that's been scratching my head ever since that day. So this was when you were Gung Ho trying to get somebody who listened to you going to Diego Police Yet China. Get it going. Get something why. Aren't you guys doing anything by? Did you not do anything ever like? I have this autopsy for what's going on like Cookham distinct cultural waiting for us at the hospital. I didn't they take him. You know he was there was there. Why didn't they take him? There's no reason not to like get on get. Did they pay off for what will was Louis before that? So the remember you actually reading here? You're talking to patients which unlike super grateful that he did all of that because it really tells the whole story but how he said they changed your story. And that's why he didn't prosecute that's why impressed charges and when. I look back at what your story was. It wasn't a story they asked you if you felt like he was capable of hurting Jacob and you said I don't think so exactly so that's not your story. You know that you answering a question right right. I didn't think he was A. Why would I lie kid with him? Nobody thought he was. We thought he was this great person at dismally. I would send my son to somebody that was like that if I need an I didn't change my story ever the I guess the problem for me the thing that bothers me the most. Is that just? The blatant corruption in the blatant like lack of any kind of human understanding empathy Willingness to just fucking listen. You know like we get maybe two feet forward starting to investigate the state police and then it just falls off the face of the earth. Nothing happened Murder Basically I mute remove Information Act request for everything related to this case from the state police another one with the county and another one to see because I feel like there's probably a lot more to this than we even know. Elon at least surprised. They never did anything not understand. Why still to this day so he were at a good place. But YOU WANNA get your last thoughts about whether you want to happen. I just think the story touches one life Even one person not optical we did it would be worth telling. I Want Jake Justice because it's not right that he couldn't talk couldn't talk and it took thirty three years for me to lead to story out and you know. I'm so proud of you what you've done what you doing and I believe in you and thank you for giving a voice and all the other kids as too late for mine but it's not too late for somebody else. You see the science if your baby hold onto you. Don't WanNa let go. Something's wrong pay attention to those things. Don't leave your babies. Would you boyfriends might be good con artists in or watching? I'll watch him. Don't do a good. I felt I couldn't do nothing about it because I was at work but I knew something was wrong. I'll look it up and I didn't pay attention to the science because I don't believe it because I've known him. I went to church with him. I went to school with him. I thought I knew this person and I didn't at all. I just want if it saves one child that outscored mother but else wants to go to this. That's what I want you. I know this was noisy. Anything worthwhile isn't thanks again for listening to to consequences follow us on social media on instagram and facebook at true consequences pod and on twitter at true cons pod. True consequences is hosted written and produced by me. Your host Eric Carter Dean. Thanks for listening and stay safe New Mexico

Jacob New Mexico murder California Child Youth and Families Divis Liz Attorney Two Thousand Nineteen Albuquer Eric Carter Sherry Louis Mexico Eric Arizona Murray turney Michael Silverware Sarah Turney child murder Us Attorney attorney
Dec 25, 2019

Sword and Scale Daily

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Dec 25, 2019

"Hello and welcome to sword and scale daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Wednesday December twenty fifth. And this. This is your Christmas Day. True Crime report coming up on sort and scale daily. A Texas teen is charged with capital murder after allegedly murdering ordering his eight months pregnant sister in staging. The death Qassim like a suicide New Mexico. Team pleaded guilty to second degree murder for for fatally shooting at twenty five year. Old Man during an attempted robbery and was sentenced to a mere thirty days in jail. Finally in Ohio woman is facing being multiple charges after December ninth des Moines area crime spree over the course of the day. The suspect allegedly intentionally hit a fourteen year old girl with her vehicle vehicle attempted to run over a twelve year old boy and finally accosted a convenience store clerk and his customers. Investigators say the suspect told them she ran over the a girl because she was quote Mexican. All this and more coming up on sort and scaled daily CBS Dallas reported. Good that police. In the colony Texas have arrested nineteen year old Eduardo follow and charged him with capital murder and tampering with evidence for allegedly murdering his twenty three year. Old Sister Brady on Arevalo on Monday December Sixteenth Brady on our of follow was eight months pregnant when she was killed. Britiannia was reported missing by her boyfriend on December seventeenth after she fell to return home after a visit to her family's house she had a past history streep depression and the discovery of quote suicide note and the Arevalo family home pointing toward the possibility of self harm however family members told. CBS Dallas that radio has depression had lifted in the final months before her death and she was looking forward to the birth of her daughter on Sunday. December twenty second variety on his body was discovered in an alley near the family's home and authorities. Say Video surveillance footage pointing towards Eduardo. As the main suspect at Wardha was picked up on Sunday night and police say he admitted to murdering his sister hiding hiding her body in a field and then returning to the field on Sunday morning to retrieve her body and leave it in an alley close to the family home. The reason for the murder. The arrest affidavit was quote an ongoing conflict in the family caused by variety on his mental health conditions. According to the Affidavit Eduardo told police that he returned to the family home on Monday morning and they got into a heated argument with variety. Yana they were alone in the house he he went to his room and reportedly thought. Maybe it's the time to murder her. He told police he then snuck back to the living room where his sister was sitting on the couch with her back to him. And he put her in a chokehold when she lost consciousness. According to the arrest affidavit he covered her head with duct tape before putting her body in the trunk of his car and driving it about an hour away where he left the remains in a field on Sunday Eduardo Return to the field and retrieve variety on his body. Gordo also reportedly confessed to fabricating the suicide note Sergeant. Aaron Woodward with the Call Police Department told. CBS News Dallas quote quote. The only reason he gave for killing her was that she was an embarrassment to the family. And he stated it would be better off if he wasn't there however her some family members refused to believe that Edward was involved in the crime in spite of the reported confession. Diego follow the older brother brother of Edouardo and variety ANA toll. CBS News Dallas quote. I know my brother. He wouldn't do something like this. He's a very kind very positive. Visited kind of guy very motivated. He helped my family out. He helps my brothers he even helped my sister. Diego Arevalo also told. NBC News Quote. It doesn't make sense that my brother would do something like this. He was either set up or something happened Eduardo. Our follow hello is still awaiting his first hearing in front of a judge and is being held without bail until then our next story takes us to a New Mexico the Albuquerque Journal reports that on Thursday. Seventeen year olds Santiago are. Mio was sentenced to thirty days in prison after pleading. I'm guilty to the second degree murder of twenty five year old Larry Santiago during an attempted robbery the murder took place on March first around five. PM In Tower Pond Park the area was full of families and children. Witnesses saw de Santiago chasing after two teenage boys identified Adas Santiago Armenio and his accomplice Jeremiah de la Pena Di Santiago chased the boys up a hill and when he almost closed in on them our Armenio shot him and then was heard saying quote. This is what you get de. Santiago passed away in the hospital. Jeremiah de la Pena has also pleaded guilty but has not yet been sentenced at the sentencing hearing for Armenio. The prosecution argued for the maximum penalty. Saying that he showed disregard to human human life as evidence they provided text exchanges between the two teens from days before the murder discussing the plans to set up and rob someone and as well as his utterance after shooting Santiago the defense asked for leniency claiming that Armenia Shot D Santiago while in actual fear fear for his life de Santiago was much larger than the teenagers and had a criminal history. They also cited the way their client quote changed his life. After the crime enrolling in online classes working full-time and planning to join the army they also said at the time of the murder or MEA was under the bad influence of his friend. Jeremiah Dale Pena. Because Armenia was only fifteen at the time of the murder the maximum punishment would have been four for years in a juvenile detention facility. Judge Christina your. Mio told the court on Thursday that because four years is the hardest punishment at her disposal. Zoll she has decided to err on the side of leniency. Four years in therapy will provide Armenia with a better chance of reforming than four years in jail. She she said quote. I just sent somebody yesterday to fifteen years in prison for shooting after a disagreement. It doesn't bother me to do that. But the laws are limited. And if I only have four years left I would rather you have four years in treatment. So that when you are an adult you can be an asset to this community rather than a drag on this community addressing the victim's relatives judge. Your Mayo said quote. I can only do so much but whatever I do it will not bring back Larry. It will not heal all your hearts or the whole that it's left in your hearts. There's nothing I can say or do that will help that. Your mio sentenced Armenio to thirty days in custody in unsupervised probation until he turns twenty one as part of his sentence or meal is required to visit high schools to speak about his crime and its effects Desanta goes relatives called the verdict. A slap in the face and his sister told the journal quote. It devalues human life and allowed our younger generation generation to see that. It's okay to commit a crime because they will not be held accountable for their actions anyway. It also demonstrated why this generation is Acting out in our community the way they do. And that's because our juvenile laws in the state cater to them after the break a a woman in Iowa is facing multiple charges including attempted murder after December ninth seemingly race motivated crime spree Hey I just I wanted to ask how many of you have credit cards. I'm sure that most of you have at least one. If so you know there's no better feeling than paying them off but you know it feels even better paying off those high interest credit cards getting a lower rate and saving money. That's what you can do with livestream. Did we know that the average interest rate for credit card is over twenty percent. That's crazy refinance your credit card balances and save with a credit card consolidation. Loan loan from light stream. You can get a rate as low as five point nine five percents. APR With Auto Pay. The online application is quick and easy no waiting in line at the bank or being stuck on the phone with representative. It's so easy you can apply from your phone. You can get a loan from five thousand dollars to one hundred thousand dollars with zero fees. You heard that right. No fees no tricky application fees no origination fees no transaction fees and no prepayment penalties TS. Plus you can even get your money the same day you apply light stream believes that when you have good credit you deserve a low rate and great service which is is exactly what they deliver. I personally never knew how easy it was to get a lower rate on my credit card debt until I tried light stream and to be honest. I'm not sure I'll ever go anyplace any place else since utilizing their services just for my listeners apply now to get an additional interest rate discount. The only way to get this discount is to go. odelay stream dot com slash scale. That's light stream dot com slash scale for an additional discount L. I. G. H. T. S. T. The R. E. A. M. dot com slash scale subject to credit approval rate includes point fifty percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply. I offers are subject to change without notice. VISIT LIGHT STRING DOT com slash scale for more information now for our final story the Des Moines Register reports that forty two year old Iowa woman Nicole pull Franklin has been charged in connection with two intentional hit and runs and racist assault on a convenience store clerk all of which allegedly took place within in a span of a couple of hours on the afternoon of December ninth on Friday police and Clive a suburb of Des Moines announced. The Franklin is facing attempted murder charges for allegedly intentionally hitting a fourteen year old girl with her SUV before fleeing the scene the teenager was struck around five pm while walking to her school for a basketball game. She suffered a concussion and severe bruising and spent two days in the hospital using using witness descriptions. Investigators managed to identify the suspect and take her in for questioning per the clive. Police Department Franklin told officers officers. She intentionally hit the girl quote because she's Mexican and made other derogatory statements about Latinos during the interview on Monday the Des Moines Police Department informed the public that Nicole pull Franklin is also charged with a second hit and run. That happened around four PM that afternoon noon. In our before the other teenager was hit witnesses told investigators they saw Carleen. The road travel on the sidewalk and hit a twelve year old boy at a demo. An apartment complex the vehicle was seen accelerating before driving on the sidewalk. No motive for the attack is known but the victim. Kim Who suffered minor injuries was African. American Franklin is also facing charges for an incident that happened on December ninth around five fifteen pm shortly after she allegedly hit the fourteen year. Old Girl surveillance video from inside a gas station shows Franklin spending more than twenty minutes during which she shoplifted ice cream through counter items at the convenience store clerk and yelled racial slurs at him repeatedly. Police were dispatched to the convenience store. Four and further report Franklin told them she was on drugs. They also stated that she was fidgety in people's were dilated consistent with substance abuse. A US court documents that were obtained by the register. Show that she smoked methamphetamine hours. Before hitting the fourteen year old victim. She was charged with assault salt in violation of individual rights public intoxication and theft. A trial date for these charges have already been set for February third. They hate crime charges being considered by the Polk County attorney. John Sarko he notes that hate crime. Charges are meant to enhance specific other charges such as arson criminal mischief and trespassing in the case of an attempted murder. It's not clear if the enhancement will infect the sentencing the desired way if Franklin was charged with both attempted murder and a hate crime. The jury may decide to compromise by dropping the attempted murder charge John Sarcoma Cohn told. CBS News quote. It may sound nice but it doesn't help anything. Franklin is currently being held on one million dollars cash. Bail will before we leave you. We have a short update Chad debacle and Laurie. Valo the married couple sought in connection with the disappearance disappearance of two children Joshua entirely have released a statement from the Rexburg attorney. Sean Barth Lick Barthel told the East Idaho news quote Chad Day. Bell was a loving husband and he has the support of his children in this matter. Laurie Bell is devoted mother and resents assertions to the contrary very we look forward to addressing the allegations once they have moved past speculation and rumour barth did not have any information about the location or the wellbeing of the missing children. seven-year-old Joshua Valo and seventeen year old Kylie Ryan have not been seen since late September relatives. Tips have accused Laurie. Valo of joining a colt with debacle a self published author of dozens of science fiction novels about the end of times and near death. Experiences dances the Daily Mail revealed on Tuesday morning that Chad Day bell was excommunicated from the Church of Latter Day. Saints this fall. That's it for today. Merry Christmas to you all. We'll see you tomorrow and until then stay safe. Yeah and sort and scale. Daily is an incongruity media production. Your host was Ryan Williams Research and writing by Hagar Barack executive producer. Mike Day if you like the show subscribing review if you'd like to write us with feedback or suggestions use the email address daily at sword and scale dot com talk

murder Department Franklin Larry Santiago Dallas second degree murder Adas Santiago Armenio Eduardo attempted robbery Mio Des Moines Jeremiah de la Pena Texas Santiago Diego Arevalo Ryan Williams Laurie Bell CBS CBS
Otras voces

Espa�ol con Juan

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Otras voces

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Dan Patrick Show - Hour 2 - Dan Dakich and Gary Myers (11-07-18)

The Dan Patrick Show

48:06 min | 2 years ago

Dan Patrick Show - Hour 2 - Dan Dakich and Gary Myers (11-07-18)

"It's all about me. Dan, patrick. There is more where that came from click back for new episodes all week, log broadcasting from the Mercedes men k which I could have a father son weekend, my dad's dead. This is Dan Patrick. My dad's dead. Welcome to the program. It's hour to Dan and the danettes Dan Patrick show this Wednesday. I'm not calling it a debut. I'm calling it an experience that is what we saw last night with Duke. I was just texting Doug Gottlieb. When do we turn on Duke because here's America excited to watch Duke? When's the last time that happened, but America's gonna go we're tired to do this isn't fun anymore? Dan dockage was there last night? Former college coach is his own radio show in Indianapolis. And also, he's a basketball analyst for the mothership. He'll join us coming up. Gary Myers longtime NFL writer wrote the book on the Cowboys. How about them Cowboys? He'll join us coming up. We'll talk to him not only about the history of the Cowboys. But also what's going on? Now. Here's Troy Aikman yesterday on the ticket in Dallas summing up his feelings and not masking anything. This team over a long period of time has been what it's been. And it hasn't always mattered who the head coaches bat. And so to me dragging me I'd say there has to be a complete overhaul of the entire organization. You just can't simply replace head coaches and say now it's going to be better. No, it it. It's it's been shown that it's not better. I don't know if you can do a complete overhaul here because the overhaul would have to do with the front office as well. And Jerry Jones Susan going allow that to happen. Plus an attractive job. Tim cowlishaw who covers the team for the Dallas Morning News. And I asked him what's more tractive job at Dallas opened up or the Cleveland Browns. And he said Cleveland, and that's only because you got a GM who's proven in John Dorsey because if you didn't have a proven GM in Cleveland, I wouldn't want either one of these jobs because I don't trust ownership the front office. But with John Dorsey there in Cleveland, Cleveland is probably a more attractive job. And then Jerry says, you know, we're gonna sign back Prescott to an extension. And then Tim cowlishaw said, you know, depending on how much you're spending I go. No the point is whether he's your quarterback or not it doesn't matter the price. And that's where I think, Jerry. There's no reason for Jerry to say we're extending back Prescott. You don't have to. But he did it Jerry loves to talk. And sometimes he thinks he can talk himself. Out is something where he just adds more kin linked to the fire there. We'll check in with the Lakers coming up a little bit later on your phone calls are welcome eight seven seven three DP show, Email address DP, Dan, Patrick dot com. I asked mclovin, when's the last time you had three freshmen score at least twenty points in their debut. And I believe it's Duke twenty years ago. Does that sound right, mclovin? Actually stats Inc. Goes back to ninety six on this particular stat and doesn't have anybody. So that's twenty two years ago. They don't have anyone yet. They're still looking back because they don't have it in their database. Okay. All right. Yeah. I'm just curious about that. Because I saw a stat of the day where he said hadn't happened in twenty years. So who would that team be twenty years ago that did that I got our poll question today, and we'll get to your phone calls coming up. It's bringing Dan dockage who was there to watch. Now, there were two games last night. The warm up band was Kansas against Michigan state, and Kansas is a great team. A great. College team. It feels like Duke is like a average NBA team. After what we saw last night. So coach joins us now. Hi, dan. How are you? Six five two thirty five down from two fifty one. I'm ready to go with you guys. I ready. Do you wanna you wanna get there right now with you against the dance and a shooting contest? You gotta beat some people to get to the champ. But yeah, I do I I have friends. I sometimes I can't listen generally, listen every day. But sometimes I can't and mad every time. You mentioned it. I've got. It'd be hard. Okay. But you have to go through mclovin and Seton to get to me to get to the wrong, but you gotta come up with a chap from the man cave. And I'll be sitting there with my ball with my Woody Harrelson hat ready to go against whoever gets it done out of you guys. That's it. If I got my show against your show five on five. Well, I've I've got I've got one do, sir. I would have to go into the sales staff and find a couple of gals. But I can I can do this. I can run five guys together from our station, but it would have to be half court because we eat a lot around. Okay. All of a sudden Damon Bailey can appear on your staff there. You can't be doing any ringers their regular contributor. Right. You you can't have Reggie Miller. How's that? Oh, he's the fifth Danette though. I know I've heard. And you know, what I love is. You're going to be guarding me. I love that. I can't wait. I'm getting a stance. Extend my arm ball. You man, you're gonna have to cut to get a bucket. His all I'm saying, you're not getting anything easy like RJ Barrett last night walking out and ain't happening big date. And I already torched you years ago. So nothing's changed. Did you charge when we played we played a pickup game in Dayton and Donny may was there and come on. You got the wrong guy. I've never met. Donnie, may I know he is you were there. You were coaching at bowling green. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Dan, I've never been in a pickup game when I was coaching at bowling green. I haven't been in a pickup game that was either on bowling greens. And it has sad Indiana University. This is sad talking about. I people will tell you. I have a photographic memory. No. You use you you used to coach at bowling green? Yeah. And then I thought kind of this guy used to be decent at Indiana. Now look at what happened. I'm torching him. I felt bad about it. I called and I said coach doc is not any good. Can you bring Calbert Cheney over coach I need somebody who can guard me Ricky Calloway, somebody is meth legal internet. Phonetic? Do you have PTSD from when I destroyed you think it's either that or the election? I'm not sure what's one, you know, know, how cold my jumper an IUD. I mean, come on. I owned you that day. But that's okay. All right. Whatever we can revisit it. All right. Okay. All right. Let's start with Kansas last night because Kansas number one team in the country. Do you think they're still the number one team in the country? No, no. I thought Kansas was good. I thought Michigan state's gonna get really good. But I know them one team in the country is to and it's not close. But I think Kansas if you said to me, and I heard you guys earlier, and you're so right, man. Would that be great? If it was Kansas Duke tonight, you know, that would be incredible or give them a day to relax and then come back and play tomorrow. I don't care Dan being there. I thought Kansas was good. I did. I thought Kansas the guard play of Quinton crimes was absolutely fantastic. And you know, you really not gonna talk about it because you're gonna talk about the freshman from Duke, but he was terrific. The big Lawson really good in his debut. I thought Kansas was really good until I saw Duke. And then I thought wait a second. Everybody else is is is not on this level at least last night. And Dan, I know you're tad delusional right now. But I try to focus here everybody that watched Duke. Play live in the building and probably at home. You could see a stark difference between between the size the length of Duke and even Kansas. But I do think it would be a very good game. Because you said, it's you know, somebody's going to games are different Duke was throwing everything again. But Kansas is really good. And I look for Michigan state that get really good Nick ward play. Well, he'll play really well during the year. All right. If you look at this the rest of the year with Duke. Where do you see where somebody's going to take advantage of them, or you know, at least make them susceptible? I think a couple of things, and I think you said it earlier, you know, maybe it was you maybe there's somebody else I've been listening. I'm driving up doing Cincinnati, Ohio states up driving over to Cincinnati. But I think a couple of things I think that you know, hype around Duke is going to get so big the environments. They're gonna play are going to be crazy. Like, even last your Virginia Tech was an okay team. I did the game. But Jinyan take beat him at Virginia Tech. I think a couple of things I think you gotta keep Zayn Williamson in front. I think people will learn that if he's going to he's going to jump up over you and make shots and good for you. But you can't you can't let him do whatever he wants to do. And then the the the RJ barrack kid is is a lot like James Hart, Dan, I mean, he owned boy, he he he gets into those gaps. And it's it's uncanny Bilas was saying it last night. There's just a there's an uncanny nece about a so you've gotta be the guy on the right? And the guy on the left have to be in helped early to slow him down a little. A bit. And you gotta make it tough for him to get the ball. But early in the season. Let me back up Kentucky's really good. I went to I went to the Bahamas and did their games against pros. They played a Serbian team that had like three guys that were I are gonna be first round picks. And there was eighteen or seventeen NBA scouts in Kentucky beat them thirty like Kentucky's good. But there's an assault going to believe that because they were then they were the JV playing against the party last night. It was literally that start who do you think is I if you said you can have RJ birds future or Zion. Williamson. Well at my age, I'm all about that money. So I think signed Williamson is a brand. I think he's going to become the shock because you've got a great smile. He's got he's got a great energy to him. I'll take Zion Williamson. He's got a cool name. You no matter who's better who's going to be better. I think right now. RJ Barrett is better. He's big like like like, he's not little. No, no, no, you know, Zion Williamson's massive, and he's strong. I worry about a couple of things signed Williamson. And this is going to be interesting. You know, Charles Barkley kind of set the tone for being heavy in college. And then really slimming down as he got to the NBA. I wonder because he's got great shoulders. I hope that that's what Zayn Williamson ends up doing. Because you you were talking about tractor trailer earlier, you know, big baby. There's been a lot in is it come into the league and things happen. And so. I RJ Barrett is is a not a good a great college basketball score. And he's only played one game. If I gave you Duke or the field. Oh. This moment. I'll take do. I don't think they're gonna go undefeated though, I think seventy six I didn't Quinn Buckner in the boys are going to be popping bottles. You know, aka mercury Morris in them at some point. But I I right now, I gotta take Duke. I just. And they beat a really good team and beat them by thousand last night. How bad do you think they'd be Kansas? If they played tonight. It's I played tonight. I would say it would go down to a five to you know, if I were gonna make a spread I'd give dukes and I'd get Kansas for five. Look last night. Jack white played great o'connell's making everything sign Williamson's throwing its shots with his back to the rip. You know? I don't think that would happen. And I and I think people would have a little better feel about how to play Barrett. Not let him catch the ball things like that. So I I would make Duke the favorite, but I would make a huge favorite if they played tonight. Are we going to run into each other at the final four, Minneapolis? Yeah. Hope so I I would like to meet you for the first time. Well, now, this will be the second time. But you like you blocked out the first that's the only thing you blocked out was was meeting me. Hi, I have to I have to sit in my safe space and and do some thinking because I've never met. Donnie, may I did know Donna her. I didn't know Dan, hip shirt. I do know Dan Hampshire. D I think you were sitting on the sidelines open for winners. And we didn't let you play. Yeah. Man. Who's the winner? Now, Dan who's the winner? Thank you. Thank you you. You're the best. I really I really love you guys show that told fritzy I thought that stuff that he did with his was kid's bar mitzvah bar. Mitzvah was really really cool. But he didn't ask you to be in the bar mitzvah video duty. I haven't reached that type status. Kinda wack. Some wacky. Mike just ruined share across the floor or something like that. That's that's been done. Were you on the team you weren't on that team? Were you big? Big d I was sitting right next to you know. He comes out. I'll tell you creek stories first time, he never he didn't wear a sport coat who've bomb, and I was senior. Okay. Wait, let let me sent this up for the on in sound so day in the mid eighties plan for Bob Knight at Indiana. And I believe this was an exhibition game. But oh, no. It was a big game against Purdue. Oh, oh, okay. At at Purdue. Yeah. No at home. Okay. All right. So I didn't set it up. Well, but that's as good as I can set it up. So Bob Knight is really steamed. And then you pick it up from there. Well, they just I hope I don't lose you. They just pulled me down to come into the game. And London Bradley made a couple of bad calls. So my man went to sport coat is the first time, he never wore a sport coat and obey blob. We're running out there. He goes eight, Danny. He's German guy goes eight he coach is going to get thrown out today we talking about it goes, not where sports. So. He he reads for sport coat. You really can't see it on the film. He didn't have it to throw. So he threw a chair, Dan. She God Randy Wittman, and I. One day. Counted he threw fifty two chairs against the wall and practice one day. So when he threw the chair, none of us were surprised, you know, when they big deal, but it parents it became a big deal you next to them. So you think if he had his sport coat there to throw he would have thrown that instead of the chair. Thousand percent absolutely once out. Yeah percent. It was a hot day in Bloomington has really a warm February day, and he had a golf shirt if he had his sport coat there have been no chair one thousand percent, I believe that. You lived to tell about it. And most of the stories you can't even tell. But that's why it'll be great to see again and have a couple of beers. And then you can open up the scrapbook force. I got a million of them funnier than the medicine. They're out ruder than a great to talk to you safe travels. And we pre sheet your time as always you guys are great. Thanks, guys. Dandong Kitch ESPN college basketball analyst, he joins his via the continental tire coaches corner. Continental tire is proud to be these -clusive the Dan Patrick show. No matter where you drive or what you drive continental designs tires for what you do. For more information. Visit continental tire dot com. Continental tire for what you do. Yes. He is it possible that you're confusing. Dan, doc with someone else? No, it's not. I don't think. So it's kinda hilarious. But it makes it it. It's fun that whether it happened or not I'm making Dan dockage think that he might have been there when I torched him you also referred to your jumpers and UD. Yeah. Which is why I e. Well, let's this jumper right here is birth control. That's how good yeah. Yeah. It's gonna stop. Stop watch it. Yeah. People. Yeah. Is shutting down any type of sexual Kennedy? That's how. That's how good this jumper is. I was on a roll, you know. Honor roll Germans. Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. I've been on a roll he's rolling. All righty. Let me change UD. I when we come back. We will talk to Gary Myers. He's written a great book about the Cowboys called. How about them Cowboys and your phone calls becoming up change the poll question check in with the Lakers as well. Like Doug GOP lead is gonna join us as well been texting back and forth with Dougie fresh after what he saw last night. So he may be joining us. Well, nineteen after the hour. This is the Dan Patrick show, whether you're competing training recovering Under Armour's create the best performing gear to make you better with two exciting new collections. Vanish and perpetual under armor is ready to help you focus on performance and take your fitness game in next level. Let me tell you about vanish, it's engineered to be more breathable. So you feel lighter and less distracted. That's huge for me. When I run I run pretty fast. It's also lightweight quick drying won't Clinger chafe, which is also huge in stretches without absorbing sweat. You can also track your runs, log, your workout too. Tap into coaching with as Matt my run, which you can sync with no arms connected running shoes or other devices like Samsung smart watch. And if you sign up for premium you can unlock even more tools to help you achieve your fitness goals. Download underarms Matt my run and my fitness pal in the apple app store or Google play store to get a free thirty trial premium for new users and take control of your goals today. Guys, if you're working out, and you're serious about it. You gotta get these are going to help you big time. So download Arbor's map my ride in my fitness, pal. And the apple app store. Google play to get a free thirty eight trial premium for new users and take control of your goals today. Hey, there diehards, here's some football facts. Even you may not know about the first football game was played in eighteen sixty nine and in an average game. The ball is typically in play for only about eleven minutes and finally pizza can someone should rates go up during the week of a big game. That's not a shocker. Okay. You probably knew that one. Here's another. Thank you may not know. And it's actually really useful. 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All of us at podcast one want to say, thank you for listening to this show. We would also like to ask a small favor of you. It'll take less than ten minutes. And if you're one of the first few people to fill out, the survey, we'll give you something for your time. We would like you to complete a short survey for us to help make things better around here. Just go to listening survey dot com. And everything will be right there for you. That's listening survey dot com, the first one hundred and twenty five people to go and complete this survey. We'll get a ten dollar gift certificate to restaurant dot com. And there is a chance to win an additional one hundred dollars Amazon gift card filling out the survey will really help us out. Go to listening survey dot com and thanks for listening. I got huge huge huge news coming up has to do with a movie that is reportedly going to be made. I don't wanna take any credit for this. But I did drop hints about this a while ago. And I'll have that for you coming up. We make way for Gary Myers. He is written a book how about them Cowboys. You know, you've been doing this a long time, Gary covering the NFL how many decades should you've been doing this nineteen Seventy-eight was my first nineteen seventy eight you're going to be in this movie, by the way, non not in this movie. No, no, no, no. I wonder now they made north Dallas forty about the Cowboys. Do you think that they would be as popular as the Cowboys? Are you got an, you know, the owner like you got everything that's. Could you make a Cowboys movie? Well, here's the deal that the title of the book is how about them Cowboys, obviously goes back to the Jimmy Johnson line had a little disagreement with my editor about the title because I was saying it's so synonymous with Jimmy that are the current day fans are the ones that before going to relate to it. He goes, well, do you have a suggestion? And because he didn't use my suggestion for the book. I'm offering it to you. If you produce the move, okay? And I give total credit to my wife. Okay. Where's grad a great sense of humor? People told me she has a great sense of humor because she married me. But the name that she should jested. Jerry does Dallas. How is that? Well, wow. Okay. Do you like it? I do how about I get Jon Voight to play Jerry Jones. That's good. Okay. Now, I got all the other who was playing who's our guy from John C McGinley could play Jason Garrett. How about that the guy from scrubs, and we're casting this. We get John Kaczynski in their John. We can he's become one of my favorite actors. Okay. We can work in. We can work transition from Jack Ryan. But you know, we can. Yeah. No, we can probably find a spot for maybe he could be the guy who cleans Jerry Jones glasses in the sweet, I was thinking more in terms of Jason Witten. But if you think, yeah, I think I'm wondering about that that you know, we make movies all the time. And if you're going to play it to a fan base there. Although do we know how would end if we did a Cowboys movie? They'd all die in the end. Been the Super Bowl and over twenty years. I know they wouldn't it would not be happy. They had the staying power as America's team that was the initial premise of what I was going on when I wrote this book when I started doing my research is how is it team that has been basically five hundred team for twenty three years. How are they now worth five billion dollars, which is considerably more than any other team? I think Manchester you is is second in about four point one or two, but they're over a billion dollars more than the patriots. Who was second. I think at three point seven. So how does that happen? And how are they more popular now worldwide than they've ever been when? It doesn't make sense almost because there's been no success on the field. It's a phenomenon that I go back to when they lost us back to back championship games to the Lombardi Packers. And they were only six or seven year old expansion team at that point. And and people just naturally gravitated to them. They were these this underdog, but a really appealing underdog, and then stall back came at the end of the sixties, and then the cheerleaders became a big deal, and they started winning championships. And they've just been able to sustain it without the success, which is amazing. But you have a guy Jerry's is clearly a great businessman, but why can't he use that same formula? And we'll maybe he is. But he shouldn't be the general manager. No, you let all the great dynasties ownership allowed. You know coaches to coach it feels like, and it feels like he's still impedes the process, but how can you be a billionaire, but not be a great business, man. And as far as getting performance on the field results. Well, we know he's in the hall fame because of what he's done to the economic economics. Should he be in the hall of fame? Well, if you get a judge by contributions to the league, then probably, but if is the hall of fame really for multimillionaires becoming multi-billionaire teaching multi millionaires, you know, what what he did around the league. I mean, all these guys the teams of Roger can tell going to get in the hall of fame. Well, pull taboos not in the hall. Yeah. But I think that there's the owners had a problem with Paul Tagliabue. Here's Goodell who's taken the slings and arrows and made them money. If you're looking at contributions to the game. I I'm imagining this Commissioner gets in before the previous one. Yeah. Because I don't think I don't necessarily think two previous ones get again on other than keeps us in two thousand twenty which will be the hundred year anniversary that they're going to celebrate for the league. I hear that they're going to expand beyond the five modern era candidates, the two contributors and the one senior, and I won't say they're going to open a flood gates, but they're going to try to right. Some wrongs of the past and have a much bigger class in two years than they do in a normal year. So that could be the opportunity while who's getting in that you're hinting at I'm talking about this. I think that's the one that the NFL is sort of embarrassed about that all the. The one of the two of the reasons that Paul's not was one because the that he signed as he was walking out the door, and he pushed it through because he wanted to retire two years later, they the opted out of it. And then they wanted to having a lockout and then obviously is a concussion situation. Yeah. Which was whatever reason was pushed onto the rug for for many years. But it wasn't like pull created it. He did inherited. It was just as bad or worse in the Roselle years, but it just came to light during the end of the Tagliabue's era, and and Roger headed Roger has tried to do things here, but they're fighting from so far behind with all these former players who haven't health problems that I'm not sure they're going to be able to clean it up. We're talking to Gary Myers. The book is how about them Cowboys available everywhere. I thought Denzel Washington for Michael Irvin. What do you think? Woo. He would probably about Michael, Jordan. That's a good one. Yeah. We could do that. What Will Smith when we work him in? We'll smith. I'm looking all my family. Now, maybe could be on the I don't know somebody's gotta be Troy Aikman. Maybe Troy is going to be Troy, maybe if you could ask Jerry Jones question, what's the answer you want that he has to answer? Is is how some you were looting before. How is somebody who is such an incredible businessman have such a blind spot when it comes to the football that he thinks he can compete on the same level as say the Ron woolfe were George Jones and Bill Polian. Bobby Beth third. I know he knows more football than any owner in the league. And I do give him credit for that. He played the game. And he's he's really stayed up on it in years before he bought the Cowboys. But he's just not smart enough. Football wise to to run a personnel department now to his credit, and I tell a story in the book about the Johnny Manziel draft in two thousand fourteen I don't know if you got to that one. But it's actually pretty funny that he was outvoted everybody else in the room to one crazy on not wanna take my cell and their list was three defensive players Anthony Barr who went to the Vikings Aaron Donald to wanted to Rams and Ryan shazier who. Went one spot ahead of them to to the Steelers and Steven Jones was thinking all along we never even didn't need to Scott. Johnny Menzel Chris day thought he was going to be picked way before the Cowboys were picking. So all of a sudden Shazia goes off the board and Steven oh my God. I gotta deal with my father now and Jerry's going one by one around the room. You think we should take man's? He'll perfectly aren't no, Jerry. We can't say he's he's shut out. He's sitting there by himself and to his credit at least he didn't force them to take man's out. Although he bitched moan about it. And Stephen were sitting right to his to his right? And as soon as they call on the league office to call Zach Morton who turned turned out to be great player, Stephen sla-. I mean, Jerry slap Stephen laugh so hard on the leg that kind of reverberates around the room and it gets in two zero. And he says son, let me tell you something I couldn't get to the spot in my life by plane things down the middle. And you just played it down the middle. And if that's the way you get a run this team. You're never going to be a success. Now, Stephen was hurt by that. Because his father's is idle. You know, fortunately for him. He didn't turn around and said, it was far the will tell me about the last twenty three years. With Jerry never he never apologized to him about it. But the fact that when Menzel was cut by the Browns joing, everyone ends day. Hey, we got a second shot at this. He never did that. So that was his way of saying. Hey, you're right. You had an exchange, and I had heard the same story in that is when Ezekiel Elliott was in trouble that I was told by a great source who said that Roger Goodell the Commissioner said to Jerry Jones distant say, anything don't don't let this just sort of smooth over and he's not going to get suspended him. And that's why when Jerry found out the Commissioner and suspended Ezekiel Elliott he went ballistic he was trying to derail his career. I mean, he went all in and then you run into you you print this. But you find out from the Commissioner the Commissioner comes up to you after he finds out about this story and says to you what? Well, let me get to spend it back a little bit. So the night before Jerry's induction in the hall of fame. He has eight million dollar PA. Party with Justin Timberlake, and one of the invited. Guests was Roger Goodell who five days later would call Jerry in Oxnard, California to break the news that he's suspending Elliott for six games in choices. Don't do that. You know? That's the wrong thing to do. But anyhow at the party, Jerry is standing there with a drink in his hand with Bon Jovi, and Roger, and I I write in there that Roger was there. Drinking on Jerry's dime, knowing he had his he had the decision made that point he just didn't want to ruin Jerry's whole fame weekend. So I have a great picture in the book of the three of them. Yeah. Staying there having a drink and the caption is that Jerry Jones was just living on a prayer. If he thought. Roger goodell. Suspend them. This is spend Elliott's I how the league meetings in March in it was in Orlando this year, I had my final interview with Jerry. And that's how current this book is I mean, I was able to get stuff in from that period of time some sending win a minute conference from and I said, Jerry, you're Volusia to me three times ready that somebody really high up in the league office assured, you that Zeke Elliott was not going to be suspended. But you wouldn't name who it was. I said listen, it was Roger wasn't. Yeah. It was. Okay. So he he'd miss it was Roger. Yeah. We knew it. But I got him on the record saying. Yeah. So now good for you a half hour later Rogers holding his end of the league meetings press conference. Now, I've known Rogers since nineteen Eighty-one, and we have been friends over the years, and but that has never interfere with me asking them, the tough questions, ripping on for Ray rice, the or anything, and he knows that. And that's one of the things I've admired about Rogers. I was eight. To really critical in the paper of him. And he would never he would. He would never call me about it. And he wouldn't affect our relationship whatsoever. So I get him in the hallway after his news conference. I said Roger. I just came from the meeting with Gerry whose insisting that you not anybody else. But you told them that Zeke Elliott was not going to be suspended. I said is that true? And he looks at me. And he goes the answer is no end period. Opium is there's something about that. You don't understand? And I'm thinking go on go on get madder. This goals. Hit me. I'm only the messenger. But if you want to blame me, that's fine. Maybe you should've corrected as punctuation the end period. Oh, peer maybe just NO period that could have set him off a little bit more too. But I was told the same thing that he said did you? That's why Jerry went apoplectic here on the Commissioner because he was told don't worry. He just don't say anything, and then Jerry had a whole lot to say after that. Well as recently as. That Friday afternoon of hall of fame weekend. Jerry had a press conference in which he was insisting once again that Zeke would not be suspended. You know, I mean insisting and you had to figure somebody was telling them. All right. The book is how about them Cowboys or it could have been Jerry does Dallas that'll be for the moving, and we have a spot few in them. You do. Yeah. I haven't quite figured out. What it is. Okay. Maybe Stephen Jones, I'm going to get you a big part in that movie to Stephen Jones. So when when Jerry steps down who takes over. Well, it's already been decided that a third of the team will go to Steven third to Charlotte an third to Jerry junior and that Stephen because he's the oldest and has been with Jerry since day one in one thousand nine hundred nine with with the Cowboys Stephen will have the league vote. Now, the really interesting thing to me, Dan is whether or not Steven has learned from his father's mistake. And we'll name a general manager Stephen is very involved in. Personnel now. But if he's going to be running this team on a day-to-day basis, he has to learn, and he has to know that the reason that the Cowboys haven't been the Super Bowl since ninety five is because once Jimmy laughed and left. Barry Switzer team to win a Super Bowl with that. They've never been able to replenish the personnel. And he also had a great quote in there. Well, it's from Troy Aikman where Troy and Jimmy choice. Yeah. We could have been Brady and Bill. Yeah. I thought that was the best quote in the entire other than in period. No, period. Yeah. I mean, I was talking to Jimmy. And he he said that and this is relatively recent that Troy made that comment they were having a beer and Troy could have been anybody. But Barry Switzer, and Troy would have been better with it. He still was upset that Jimmy left, but he hated Switzer going back to Oklahoma days ROY having a transfer. But so the sitting around maybe three or four years ago and in Jim e has no regrets whatsoever. I said you would have been the hall of fame ready. You would win four in a row. Don't you care about that? He goes, no, my primary goal in life is just to be happy. And I wasn't happy. I couldn't stand being there anymore. So choice system. You know, we we could have been Brady and Belle check. And I said to Jimmy what was your reaction? He says. And they would have been able to set the standard so high. It's at the bar so high that breeding bell chick never would have able to jump over that one good stuff. Gary has always and we've come to expect that the book is how about them Cowboys written by Gary Myers will be back after this. We'll get two phone calls. We'll check in with the Lakers. Doug godly will join us top of the hour. We'll revisit last night said performance by Duke all of that coming up here on the Dan Patrick show. Everybody's got it to do this. I get one for my wife drop off the dry cleaning pick-up, some milk figure out something to get out of the house. So I can relax. Here's an idea. Let's add save hundreds of dollars on car insurance. The good thing. You don't have to drop off or pick up. Anything? All you have to do is go to Geico dot com and fifteen minutes, you could be saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Do you like extra money in your pocket? Do you like not having to drive somewhere to pick something up? This is a way to do it. It just may be the most rewarding thing on your to do list today. That's Geico dot com. Hey listeners just wanted to take a minute to thank all our great sponsors. And all of you, great listeners for supporting this podcast. We certainly couldn't do without either of you. And I wanted to remind you that you can support our sponsors by going to our show page at podcast one dot com. Clicking on the support this podcast button. And you will see all our wonderful sponsors that helped make this show possible. Thank you for downloading subscribing, at of course, supporting and now back to the show all of us at podcast one want to say, thank you for listening to this show. We would also like to ask a small favor of you. It'll take less than ten minutes. And if you're one of the first few people to fill out, the survey, we'll give you something for your time. We would like you to complete a short survey for us to help make things better around here. Just go to listening survey dot com and everything will be right there for you. That's listening survey dot com, the first one hundred and twenty five people to go and complete this survey. We'll get a ten dollar gift certificate to restaurant dot com. And there is a chance to win an additional one. One hundred dollars Amazon gift card filling out that survey will really help us out. Go to listening survey dot com and thanks for listening. Stay tuned for sixty seconds of AP news headlines, right after this podcast. Gary myers. The book is how about them Cowboys. Dan, Patrick show. Brought to you by the twenty eighteen Mercedes AM G class with a suite of innovative technologies. One of the most intelligent cars on the road. Go to M B USA dot com or visit your local dealership. Schedule a test drive today. I teased big movie news. I don't want to over tease oversell. But would you guys like to take a stab at what I'm talking about? That looks like we're going to have a movie that's going to be made. A two hour film. You said we well, no, not not me. I'm not involved in this. Yes. Boeing the ESPN movie is finally in production note, I keep waiting for that. 'cause I move. You're going to be made. I haven't heard anything about that anything about the script. I just never contacted about anything not to be in it, but to give background. But maybe they've got all the background information from Jamila book. I here you go. Details are sparse. This is in variety. Details are sparse. With no information on what shape the movie could take a prequel, like better, call soul or something else or whether any of breaking badge stars will return. The Albuquerque journal includes a log line stating the film tracks the escape of a kidnap man in his quest for freedom as they get ready for breaking bad the movie. Breaking bad may have had its finale in two thousand thirteen but Vince Gilligan, according to variety has confirmed that Vince Gilligan, the creator is working on a film with ties to breaking bad. Remember when I asked Bryan Cranston about this. I said could you have made a movie on breaking bad instead of just the episodes there? And I think he said it wouldn't have been the same. Yes. Yeah. Because you kind of need all of that time to see his transition from a normal guy into a real like criminal underboss, kind of do he becomes so emboldened any falls in love with his life and his character? And who he is. He goes from this modest chemistry teacher to he's the danger. I'm the danger. Yes, polling we found more information. This the paper that broke his Albuquerque journal, according to the Albuquerque journal, according to New Mexico film office a movie called Greenbrier will begin production in mid November through early. Jane, February the film office wouldn't confirm or deny that the project was breaking bad film. But sources most of the projects have confirmed that production is Bryan Cranston going to be in Los Angeles next week for. He's not going to be an LLC. But he's hopefully going to join us sometime soon in New York could we call him see if he wants to. Confirm or deny involved in the movie, that'd be great for the team to break this one. Yeah. See if Brian's been involved in this because I've ever bringing it up to him. And he didn't think that would be a good idea to have a movie because you do need you. You know, you have to allow Walter white to evolve right in right in front of your very eyes. And it takes a while for you to see just how scary he can get in that movie and Wisconsin's been holding. Hi, matt. What do you have for me today? Dan, good, bud. Hey, I wanted to be a potential poll question your way. Okay. Don't contest and don't contest who you taking Zion. Williamson or primal brand. I'd have to know. I don't know. How creative these guys? Are this one thing to be powerful when you dunk? It's another thing to be creative. And I don't know how creative LeBron is. Because that's that's how you win. Now. I don't I don't think you're gonna win by power if LeBron's motivated. If LeBron is twenty three in motivated, I probably do LeBron although Zionists had he's had the. The position to be able to see all these great dunks before him. And and so he would have a lot of ammunition. They're whereas LeBron now LeBron's not beating Zion Williamson dunk contest five is watching the hawks last night. Of course, I'm that guy watching the hawks and Vince Carter came in Vince at a dunk just it was just fun to watch that he's forty one. I think he's tied with Robert perish for the most seasons in NBA history at twenty one I think that that's that's the case. But just watching Vince last night, Liz fun. By the way on Sunday night. It'll be the Cowboys and the eagles have about them Cowboys. That'll be football night in America. Starting at seven eastern kickoff at eight twenty is that in Philadelphia, mclovin that is in Philadelphia boy and Phillies getting all their injured players bagging and add golden Tate. Yeah. Sunday night on NBC. If there's a blow out there. I don't know. Maybe Jerry Jerry has great loyalty to Jason Garrett because the Jason's dad Jason's dad used to work for the Cowboys. I believe is his scout. You know, well respected scout. And I think that there was loyalty there. But at some point, you know, Jerry's got to do what's best for the brand. It's amazing. How popular the Cowboys still aren't they don't win? I mean, that's staying power. They're more popular than the patriots. And they have nowhere near the resume. I mean, the the Lakers have won. But you know, you have dips there. But that's still a strong brand. But you can't have a twenty year dip is Dallas had like the raiders have had a dip. And they lost that, you know, they're they had that profile and they lost it. But Dallas hasn't lost. It. That is a loyal fan base. That stays in puts up with this. The raiders got a great fan base to its loyal. But not like Dallas. Not like Dallas at all. All right update. The poll results. Mclovin. Okay. We still have a if you and it's Duke do you want to put up Duke versus the field that you ask docket. You can do that. We'll talk to Doug Gottlieb about this for she gave me mock headlines on Duke blowing out Kentucky, I feel about that. Okay. Do you wanna do four one for each freshman because when you tend to? No, you go ahead. It's only like eight of them, right? Yeah. Let's go seat and hit the music. Here's fritzy. Marquette lines. Dupe lowing out Kentucky Duke, blinded them with Zion. Okay. Blind to them with science one and fun. Kentucky now football school. Wildcats black and bluish from reddish. Sometimes you gotta green in Barrett. Okay. RJ? All right. Oh, okay. Coach that thing you do that movie. That thing you do. And after what happened last night, I think it's safe to say fried Calipari. I just don't think you should have led with Duke blinded them with Zion blinded me with Zayas. I know. But who knows that rat is that another eighties reference isn't eighty nine Thomas Dolby pretty big song eighties. This is your wheelhouse. I thought that was pretty cool. No, no. That one's not good. No. No, I I know this song. Fried calamari Kalahari. I like that one. You got a grand Barron. That thing you do that thing you do know it wasn't. It wasn't a big movie. That thing you do. Grin and bear it. All right. Black and bluish from ready one of the guys from nothing. Yeah. We do. We do the far the hotel Kentucky now football school question. Mark. That's good. That's fun. But Duke blind to them with Zion. I am. No. It's not good. Doug Gottlieb will join us coming up, and we'll check in on the Lakers as well. Hey, it's Adam Corolla pay. This is Kathy night from lady gang fish devolves from the Steve Austin show. This is Heather Dubrow from headache broS world, rob Riggle Tiana for Michael's picks. This Kaitlyn bristowe from off the vine on podcast one. This Veterans Day. I'd like to give a special thanks to all those who've served in the armed forces from army, the navy the Marine Corps, the air force coast guard and the reserves because of your bravery reaching live without fear because if your valour we can soar into the bright future because of your sacrifice. We don't have to sacrifice the liberties that we hold so dear we could not do it without you. Thank you again for your service and all of us had podcast one. Hope you enjoy a safe holiday weekend. Backstage for finds you won't believe and prices so low you can't resist. So what's hot for cold weather? Well, so it's fabulous. Find fo- best in jackets starting at thirty nine nine nine those votre bags you love. They start at twenty nine ninety nine and guys. We've got the police implant you'll live in all season starting at nine hundred ninety nine or all about keeping the whole family more. He never know what you'll find. You'll always find something for info and locations. Visit macysbackstage dot com. The latest from the elections, I'm Tim Maguire within AP newsmen in West Virginia. Democrat Senator Joe Manchin a target of the GOP and President Trump wins reelection. We got to stop. This absolute toxic. Scoring on his conscience in Tennessee, Marsha Blackburn, keeps the Senate seat in Republican hands. Really good message. Tennessee wanna conservative US Senator Harris going to Tennessee values. Democrats lose a Senate seat in Indiana Republican Mike Bron defeating incumbent Joe Donnelly in the house. Democrats have won three former Republic four former Republican seats. The latest Debbie Mirka, Sal Powell housing Republican Carlos Cabello from a house seat in south Florida. That is the second Republican seat in the Miami area to fall tonight and a democrat has won election over an incumbent in the New York City area. I'm Tim Maguire.

Jerry Jerry Cowboys Dan Duke Dallas Jerry Jones Lakers Dan Patrick Kansas Gary Myers football Troy Aikman Roger Goodell NBA America NFL Indiana Zayn Williamson Zion Doug Gottlieb
Why Many Guatemalans Are Leaving Their Home For The U.S.

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

47:59 min | 1 year ago

Why Many Guatemalans Are Leaving Their Home For The U.S.

"This message comes from on points sponsor, indeed, if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes, set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. From WB. You are Boston and NPR. I'm Meghna Chalker bardy, and this is on point the system is at full capacity. That's according to border patrol agents, speaking recently about immigration at the US, Mexico border in February record sixty six thousand migrants tried to cross or requested asylum at the southern border the highest total for a single month in almost a decade now in years past the majority of migrants crossing the border were single men from Mexico, but now it's entirely flipped. The majority of migrants are Central American families, especially from Guatemala this hour on point why families are fleeing Guatemala in record numbers. And what to do about it? And you can join us. What responsibility does the US have to Guatemala if any and if the US becomes more active or Mercer more supportive in Guatemala could that help stem the tide of migrants coming to the US southern border? What should the Guatemalan government be doing for its own citizens? Join us anytime on radio dot org or Twitter and Facebook ad on point radio. We are going to spend the majority of this hour talking about the situation on the ground in Guatemala, but we wanna I start in Washington with congresswoman Loren Underwood. She's a democrat representing illinois's fourteenth congressional district. She also served on the house committee on homeland security and last week the committee questioned homeland security secretary Christian Nielsen about family separation at the border, and here's part of an exchange between Representative Underwood and secretary Nielsen were you aware that the trauma of family separation is connected to something called 'toxic stress. I'm not familiar with that term. No, okay. Were you aware that toxic stress can actually change a child's brain? Because it's still developing. I wasn't familiar with the term and Representative Underwood joins us now from Washington, welcome to one point I Magna. So first of all have you heard of from secretary Nielsen since last week's committee hearing about whether DHS is taking psychological effects into account when they separate parents and children has their stance changed on this since last week. I haven't received any follow up. But I think it's pretty clear that they had not heeded the advice of experts like the American Academy of pediatrics who reached out in early days of that family separation policy implementation. Okay. So what's your response to reporting? We've seen recently that families and children are still being separated at the border. Now DHS says it's because of some of these parents may have prior criminal records, which requires the separation of families and children between know, how many and and how how long this is going to go on for, you know, I think it's unacceptable. We heard secretary Nielsen. Deny that a family separation policy formerly existed. She refused to offer us exact figures on the number of children being held in detention. She didn't know the numbers was not able to offer any specifics. And so we receive news reports every day that that demonstrate that this is continuing on. We know it's likely thousands of children being impacted and in order for the committee to be able to do. It's very important oversight work, we need candor. And we need a cooperation from the department of homeland security. The New York Times is reporting that. According to records, they reviewed that officially since last June. There's more than two hundred children who may have been separated from their families. But you're saying it could be thousands. I mean, how do we what's the real number? That's what we would like to know, and is not complying giving you numbers that crack, and they said why not well, we didn't hear a very strong rationale from secretary Nielsen last week. She promised to follow up. I'm eager to receive that information. We'll in your line of questioning with the secretary last week as you just mentioned again here. The American Academy pediatrics has written to the department of homeland security some six times to explain how family separation hurts children and US secretary Nielsen whether she was aware of those warnings, and here's part of her response. I am which is why continued assets committee to work with me. So that parents do not separate their children. There are sixty thousand last year that was separated by their parents. You're talking about two thousand children that resulted from there. Choosing to break the law, which is why I've continually us parents to go to a port of entry. So Representative Underwood that's secretary Nielsen. They're saying that the problem is parents deciding to bring their children to the border. What's your response to that? Well, I think that we are very clearly in the middle of a of a humanitarian crisis where number of individuals from many countries are seeking asylum in the United States. We have a responsibility to offer those individuals who present themselves at the border seeking asylum and with humanitarian treatment meeting recognizing the humanity in these individuals, making sure they have access to food and medical care. We saw two young children die at the end of last year because they did not get the needed medical treatment. And that is that is our obligation as the United States government. Now, it is very clear that the department of homeland security perhaps doesn't share those values, but it is reflected in current US policy that that is how folks should be treated. And so it is our. Job as the homeland security committee to make sure that the department is complying with those policies. We'll talk a little bit more about what the committee itself can do in its functioning as the as a body of oversight over DHS here because you know, as you know, customs and border protection is saying that this enormous spike in families that they're seeing in recent months appearing at the border is overwhelming the system at the border. So what specifically can the house committee do to alleviate the urgent situation now? Well, we can do many things, you know, as we get the information about the volume, right? The number of individuals that were talking about we can't certainly make more financial resources available for additional officers throughout the testimony secretary. Nielsen was unwilling to aknowledge the number of vacancies that the US customs and border patrol has. And we have authorized funding for a number of new officers. You may recall during the recent appropriations that were. Past when the government reopen. We approve funding for additional judges to prosecute them to process the number of individuals seeking asylum at the border, right? We know that we did not have enough judges to move through those cases quickly, right? We are willing to provide the resources needed. But we just need the information in order to respond accordingly. And so this is both about authorizing programs appropriating resources and providing oversight as delineated in article one of the constitution. So you saying that you need more formation about what DHS believes it needs. Because we we know how many people are crossing the border at read that number at the beginning of the conversation that in a month lonely at sixty six thousand this huge, spike, right? But I'm saying during the conversation with secretary Nielsen came in. She was unable to provide information about the number children currently in custody, the the volume of drugs crossing the border, right? She was not prepared to provide the committee with the detailed information. She did. Not know the number of bacon sees in these incredibly necessary officers to secure the border, and we as the committee a need that type of information to be able to approve the resources and support the department and the important work that they do and just curious in terms of how the sausage works sausages made in Washington, so how can you impress upon the secretary to deliver that information will you be asking her to testify again before the committee, would certainly we will be providing additional written questions for her to respond to. And there are variety of tool letters to all the way up to subpoenas that are within our jurisdiction that we could employ in order to obtain the information that's required. However, I hope that we were able to work in a collaborative partnership way in order to do this really important work. And finally last question Representative Underwood if I may as, you know, President Trump is submitting twenty twenty budget. Puzzle. And in it as we're hearing today, there's a request for more than eight billion dollars for a border wall in that budget proposal, and of course, Democrats oppose the wall entirely are we headed for another showdown here. Well, you know, what I think that this is an interesting dynamic, right? We saw the US house of representatives in a bipartisan way pass a resolution that is in response to the president's emergency declaration that happened at the end of February just last week. When secretary Nielsen came to testify before our committee, she identified cybersecurity as a greater threat to the our national security than border security. She said it herself. And now we have the president again trying to circumvent the Congress's role again as appropriators by requesting even larger sums of money for a wasteful and inefficient border wall. And so I don't know what the president is hoping to accomplish with this request. However, you know. We will continue to do our work to make sure the US seven border is appropriately protected, and that the American people can rest assured about the safety and security of the United States will Representative learn Underwood represents a illinois's fourteenth congressional district. She's a democrat and she also serves on the house committee on homeland security Representative Underwood. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Well, let's hear a little bit of from a veteran border agents who knows the situation on the ground regarding families at the US southern border right now, you're going to hear a little bit of tape from many Padilla here. He's a director of the joint task force west part of the homeland security department in San Antonio. He spoke with NPR's John Burnett last week and said the growing number of migrants is overwhelming his agents. They're preoccupied with medical care feeding and processing families padeas says instead of border security the entire system right now is that full capacity, actually, overwhelmed everything. Is maxed out and it's causing a lot of issues because the agents are being assigned to areas that are not border security related. That's Manny Padilla director of joint task force west part of the homeland security department in San Antonio joining us now is Angela co-chair. She's joining us from El Paso, Texas. She's border correspondent for the Albuquerque journal, and she's been reporting from both the US Mexico border and quantum Malla as well. We have links to her reporting on point radio dot org. Angela welcome to the program. Hi, thanks for having me. So we've got a minute to go before we take our first quick break here. But let me start ngelo by asking you. What have you been seeing in the past several weeks and months at the border regarding this huge surge of families trying to trying to enter how bad is the situation. We're seeing hundreds of migrant families parents with young children arriving at the border daily looking for border patrol agents to turn themselves in. They're not sneaking in they are looking for people to turn themselves in. And agents or are spending their days, picking up large groups of hundreds of people and shuttling them back to processing centers to start the asylum process because the vast majority of people are coming asking for asylum fleeing Central America, and we've seen a very large number of what a Mollins is just this past year. We're going to spend the rest of the hour talking about the situation regarding Mullen families in particular, but Angela Cuccia standby for just a moment. We are talking about the huge surge of the number of families seeking asylum and trying to cross the southern border in the United States, particularly from Guatemala. We'll be right back. This is on point. This message comes from sponsor indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help. Getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed toasted job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsored jobs. New users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR, podcast, terms, conditions, and quality standards apply. I'm Jane Ho-san and this week unlucky. No USA wisdom into one all female immigrant detention facility in Texas and a specific case to ask how and why this system allows for sexual abuse of detainees to continue year after year. That's this week on nothing USA. This is on point Meghna, Junker birdie. We're talking about the spike in the number of migrant families trying to enter the United States and request asylum. A record sixty six thousand migrants total in February alone requested asylum. The majority of them Central American families, particularly from Guatemala or exploring what's happening watt. Amal that's driving. This surge. We should say though, broadly speaking my the number of migrants trying to cross the US border now is still much lower than it was say in the early two thousands ngelo coach Arrigo is with us. She's a border correspondent for the Albuquerque journal with us today from El Paso, Texas. An Angela before the break you were telling us about how hundreds of these families are being picked up by customs and border protection almost on a daily basis. Now, what about you know, where they're being taken and the facilities and the immigration courts needed to process them doing do we know where these families are being held well their health temporarily in border patrol facilities that were not. Designed for families, especially families with small children, so people crowded in together, and until they can be processed. And then for the most part if it's apparent with child released with an ankle monitor within an toll to appear in immigration court, the best majority of people are seeking asylum. So they will start that long process that can last years, we have a really long backlog in the immigration court system and people have relatives and friends here. So they go off to other cities. They normally don't stay on the border and wait for their hearings. In the meantime, start lives here, and and often raise the money that they need to take back home. Even if they are denied asylum, which the vast majority seemed to to be these days be denied asylum. You say okay, though, sober we're going to really take a close look about the situation in Guatemala right now. But this one thing I'm wondering if if you've heard or observed in your reporting because how many of these families are coming saying that they have been told that if they bring their children they're much less likely to to be. Reported that seems to be something. I don't know if it's a room or something that smugglers are telling you how how many families are saying that. Well, I didn't want them on a few weeks ago exploring the this kind of mass exodus for seeing not just from areas that traditionally have had migration, of course, you have real reasons people leave grinding poverty, gang violence, sometimes government corruption. But almost everyone knows now that if you bring a child along with you that is your way time your ticket out of being in detention and smugglers are promoting this they are encouraging people, and they are kind of whipping people up into a frenzy say now is the time by now we're going to miss your opportunity, and there's a real concern because you hear a lot of rhetoric coming out of the Trump administration people feel it was told that the border is going to be closed down a lot of families. And so they're making a rush up. They're hoping they don't miss their chance. And of course, smugly organizations are profiting from this fear. Well, ngelo couture border correspondent for the. Albuquerque journal she's been reporting from both the US Mexico border and from Guatemala as she said, we've got links to her reporting on point radio dot org. Angela thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. All right. Well, let's turn now to to people who also know about the situation on the ground in Guatemala at the moment. Joining us now from city Iowa is Luis Argueta he's with us via Skype today. He's Guatemalan American film maker and producer. He directed a film series on immigration which included abused. The post Ville raid Abrazos and the u-turn and he's currently at work on a new film that will look at the lasting effects of family separation. Louis get a welcome to on point may. Hi may Magna. It's great to be here. Also with us today from Washington is Andrea Bill Tron, she's director of the Washington office of Latin America's citizen security program. The Washington office is a non-governmental organization that advocates for human rights in the Americas, adrenaline BELTRAN, welcome to you. Hi magnum. So can I just start with you know, what would you say are the major drivers of what seems to be a sudden serious spike in the number of families from Guatemala who who are leaving. I'm seeing up to ninety percent of the families right now who are trying to cross the US border. Maybe from just quantum all alone. I would say there are a range of factors that are driving migration from the region, but from Guatemala, one was noted as the high rates of insecurity and violence. So yes, you do see a decrease in the overall national homicide rate, but there's other forms of violence that families another Guatemalans experience, particularly in marginalized communities. This includes issues of gang violence, where gangs, try to gain territorial control of communities and pretty much set the rules of of the game, you have high rates of extortion. That tend to affect, you know, small businesses a taxi drivers transportation, you have extremely high rates of violence against women in the case of Watambwa and many of these migrants ending communities are also located around the drug traffic in corridor. Okay. In a lot of these communities on there is a lack of state presence. So criminal groups in again. Tend to gain control of of a lot of these of these areas. Okay. So Lewis jump in here. What what do you think are those major drivers the drivers are the same? But we also should look, and I totally agree with with the drama, but we should keep in mind. A few other things what is attracting people, and that is jobs and networks family and friends networks as well. As this very clear information go now, it's a lot cheaper. If you go with a child, and you better take advantage of this offer now because they make lows the border anytime. So when you say lot cheaper, if you go to child are you talking about like the cost that they have to pay smugglers? I don't understand Louis. Yes. I have been actually following a gentleman and his thirteen year old daughter who left what a off on the thirteenth of February. If he had come by. Himself. It would cost him. Almost twelve thousand dollars eleven thousand six hundred because he came with an under a child it costs him six thousand for both of them. So this is a, you know, a very sad recent to come, but it is an important one. Okay. So let's explore this a little bit more data. I mean, it sounds a racing here that in part because of how the situation on the border has been handled over the past year or so that are smugglers basically trying to they're just trying to deepen the racket right now and saying we're going to reduce the what we charged you you as a family to to smoke to bring you to the US border. Is that part of what what's driving this souther? Sudden spike. I mean, I would say again, you know, there are many drivers summer pull factors some are push factors. Yes. You know, you do have smugglers that pray and they're taking advantage of of the needs of migrants. And the fact that you have, you know, many families that are in dire sich. Relations because of violence because of poverty because of you know, losing their livelihoods in, you know, in a country where the, you know, the government has been unable or unwilling to address those needs. And so they take advantage. There's also, you know points to the issue of corruption, and the fact that you have, you know, systemic corruption in these countries in the case of Guatemala, but also the corruption that you see, you know, along the along the journey and how smugglers, you know, through corruption are able to traffic individuals, you know, through these countries, but Lewis told me a little bit more about a about the the what smugglers are doing and saying because I, you know, even six thousand dollars, though, it can still be many many times what a Guatemalan makes in a year. So how are they able to come up with the money so quickly if I made all go back a little bit of throw touching on something that ran a mentioned, you know, my my mantras always been followed them. Money who's making money out of this question. And I have coined a phrase migrants as merchandise and everybody is making money off migrants. And when we talk about smugglers, we're not talking about a lonely royalty. We're talking about representatives of a major network that touches everybody in government of nationally locally across the border, all through Mexico. And you know, who knows how far it goes. But just a year ago. A major RB official was arrested in Kazakhstan angle because he was laundering the money for gangs. You know, so the Koto is making a profit, but he's not keeping all of the money. So that's one thing. Yes. Six thousand dollars a lot of money. But if you have a motorcycle that you can sell if you have a piece of land that you can mortgage. And if you have a coated will lend you money for fifty percent of the cost at five percent the month. That's how you raise the money. Okay. So let's broaden the scope of our analysis here for a moment Edry on as you probably know customs and border protection put out a report recently saying that the highest percentage of family migrants from Guatemala, maybe from just one or two Guatemalan departments or regions, and that these are traditional mountain villages that have very high mount nutrition rates, high levels of food, insecurity. And so see C B P is saying that you know, that they're saying that current migration flows are complex. This is a quote from from the head the complex regional phenomenon require multifaceted response. But that this food insecurity might be a major issue. Here. What do you think about that? I do think, you know, one of the drivers of migration is poverty, and and inequality, and with that, you know, the high rates of of malnutrition, and you know, the fact that many of these communities are also around the dry corridor. So over the last several years you've had severe droughts that have led too many many families losing their entire crops. Again, you don't some of these are also located along the border where you know, you also have trafficking drugs weapons and other forms of illicit trafficking, traveling through those areas, and again these are regions where you don't have a significant state presence. So you know, they tend to suffer from high levels of corruption. Lewis your thoughts about that. Well, I think that one of the push factors that really hasn't been emphasized enough is climate change, and that will become even more important as as as the weather becomes becomes bad. So that's that's one thing. And I've seen people not just from the border towns of of Mexico migrating. We're talking about people outside and t-. Well, what Walla which is a fairly? You know? Oh, I won't say well love, but it's much less pow a pub poor than than consented angle or some market, which are the border. So the opportunity of coming at this time, I suppose to in may of last year when when they were separating children on a, you know, regular basis now, there's still separating children and parents. For three days. The man I follow talked about how he was plays in a cage inside Ayala and not far from him in another cage was his daughter, and he could see her, but they were separated for three days. Louisan Adriana so stand by for moment. Let's just take some calls here. If we can let's go to Horace who's calling from Montgomery, Alabama for us. You're on the air. Just like to broaden the conversation to include the US foreign policy towards Central America. Nineteen fifty four C I participates in overthrow of our Ben and other leaders in Central America. Then we use. He joked trade to finance operations Salvador and then outcome of the drug trade, we send back to El Salvador, and Guatemala, these gangs that were started in the US. So you as foreign policy has everything to do with what we're doing with today, interns, an immigration from Guatemala horse. Thank you for your call a Jeter BELTRAN, you want to respond to that the destabilizing force of decades of he was foreign policy in Central America. And that's a very good point that he raises the history. Sorry of US foreign policy in the region long history of engagement the support of very brutal regimes in the eighties. You know, the the involvement of the US with deportation of thousands of central Americans that aided, you know, the spread of gang violence in the region, the issue of drug trafficking, and you know, this highlights the reason why it is important for the US to support long-term challenge of how do you address these factors? How do you address these drivers of migration? So let's go to Patricia who's calling from Baltimore, Maryland, you're on the air. Yes. I my question is I know the US sends millennial funds and that's supposed to be for security. And I'm wondering what your guests. Think about diverting those funds with strict oversight to do something about gang rehabilitation a jobs education at cetera. Thank you. Thank you for your call Lewis. A get a your thoughts about that. Definitely the protest to be multifaceted. And the conditions in the sending countries have to change on till you have a do cash in health services and hope hope hopefully future not even a better future just of a future. There was a woman from Honduras interview, she was in the cavern coming couple of months ago. And she said I have four kids if I stay here by the time, they're fifteen I will have bury them all if I go I might only berry one or two. But at least even if I die I will die with hope of having a better future in the US. Well, okay, so Adriana the let's talk a little bit about let's say the United States did as Pacheco. The caller was suggesting divert funds are increased funds to economic development in Guatemala. She you know, she. Points out with strict oversight. But I mean, we've also been talking about how much corruption there is in Guatemala is such oversight even possible. Or would you have to root out corruption? I in order for the money to be effectively used for the Guatemalan people. I think it's important. And I think one of the priorities of US assistance to the region should be for combating corruption addressing the high rates of widespread impunity, and how do you build accountable ineffective institutions success in those areas will contribute to success in the other areas. Now, there have been very effective initiatives a rooting out corruption in the region, particularly in the case of quantum Malla that unfortunately now are seeing significant pushback from forces from the government enforces within the country, but these are initiatives of the US should support. I would also say that there are many courageous individuals in Guatemala, and in these countries that are trying to promote reforms in a make progress in these areas, and those are the initiatives, and the people that the US should be supporting in addition to what I agree is, you know, multifaceted approach Taty you continue investing in violence prevention in. Education and workforce development, and in other areas will address BELTRAN and Luis Argueta standby for just a moment. We're talking about why is major spike in the number of families coming to the US southern border is going on some sixty six thousand migrants total in February and just one month. And why so many of them are families from Guatemala, and what the United States can or should do to improve the situation in Guatemalan to address the migrant crisis. What the Guatemalan government itself oughta do we'll be right back. This is on point. Life kid is like that friend he go she when your toughest parenting moments. So my answer was do you believe Lucas, you're so Socratic wife kit for parents, an audio guide from NPR and the experts at sesame workshop check it out in apple podcasts were at NPR dot org slash life kit. This is on point. I'm begging to Chuck Roberti. We're talking this hour about why so many families from Guatemala in particular are traveling to the US border seeking asylum in the United States, and what can be done about it. And I'm joined today by Luis Argueta. He's a Guatemalan American filmmaker and producer currently at work on a new film looking at the lasting effects of family separation adrenaline BELTRAN also joins us. She's with us from Washington. She's director of the Washington office of Latin America's citizens security programme. And we're again, we're really taking a close look at what's happening on the ground in Guatemala. That's driving is recalling it these push pull factors in sending so many families to the US border. An adrenalin me ask you something. We were talking about anticorruption efforts beforehand, and how and why they're sort of one of the factors that are central to the issue in Guatemala. But if I remember correctly didn't quite Amal and president Jimmy Morales very recently want to. To end or revoke an international Commission Against Corruption a UN commission that was either at work or going to get to work in Guatemala. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Guatemala had been making significant progress in the fight against corruption in grape part due to the help and support of the international commission against impunity Guatemala known SEC. This is an international mechanism that is very unique because it is able to investigate, but it has to work hand in hand with local institutions to bring cases before the local court. So the prosecution the cases are are all handled by local institutions, and in this way, it is able to bolster the investigative capacity of the local prosecutors in local courts and police and it had been making a lot of progress. So. Much. So that you know, when the president members of his family, but also very powerful individuals came under investigation. He started seeing a very strong backlash against the the commission, but also against you know, all the progress that had been made in different areas. So what you've seen is really attempts and measures that the current government has taken to undermine this entire effort, and to you know, backslide on all the progress that had been made in the areas of judicial independence of security and other another areas. So it was working is what you're saying. Which is why the receiving pushback from political elites and the business community. But the constitutional court ruled that president were else couldn't just expel the commission. The constitutional court has ruled in various instances the last ruling, so the president unilaterally tried to end the agreement with the United Nations. That created the the commission in order that needed to leave and the constitutional core basically responded saying that that was a violation of international law violation of the agreement. Unfortunately, what you see right now is a situation where the president the can the government continue to defy the court, and that has created a crisis in the country. Okay. So Lewis, oh, get let me just get your your take on the situation that here we have one example in which an important effort to see to clean up corruption in Guatemala, which could then, you know, ideally, have cascading effects and improving the nation as a whole wants it started working. There's pushback from from the government itself or parts of the government itself. So what does that tell us about the challenges of of improving politics and the economy in the country? Well. Adrenals talks about how forces within the country have been trying to get rid of of this something very effective on thank option organization, but we should also know that there are forces outside the country, very powerful lobby in Washington DC, trying to change the of the American public opinion against this the this organization, and you know, paid by very powerful forces in the water Malla and they corrupt forces in what amounted on the dumb one their their tails to be stepped on. I think that we should also remember that this is a presidential election. And what Ahmadullah and that the US should really be looking that these elections are carried in in a safe, and and democratic way, it's it's fascinating that an attorney general that had to. The country because she was part of this anti-corruption campaign is now running for four presidents, though, you know, things things could change. Well, let's go back to the phones we're at one eight hundred four two three eight two five five that's eight hundred four to three talk. And once again, we're talking about the situation on the ground in Guatemala, and why so many families from Guatemala are coming to the US to the southern border and requesting asylum. So let's go to Erica who's calling from Boston Massachusetts Erica, you're on the air. Hi there. I wanted to mention that why haven't talked about the impact of trade agreement that bring a lot of product from the US, and it's undermining the crop of a lot of compassi some compassi in in a lot of people in the highlands of what the Marlins on medicals had to leave because the potato the potato. That's the main source in corn. It's just decline in the price that Klein in Seoul much in. It's not sustainable in more to invest in plant and potato crops in all kinds of vegetables. So people are just get an in depth. And have to leave because they they can't because of the poverty that comes from from the the reduction in prices of the crops, and and you know, like. You know, like, there's someone who has a chicken farm. He can't sell his chickens anymore. But there's a lot of chicken comes from the US, it's cheaper and a lot of Mexico. You know, their wellness over there now and McDonald there, so it's a free trade benefits a lot of US companies, but not local armless or local business will Erica. Thank you so much for your call adrenal BELTRAN. Let me turn back to you. There I presume Erica is referring to. I think the there's the Dominican Republic Central America free trade agreement that the US signed I signed many years ago. Right, right. And you know, the impact that the featuring agreement could have in, you know, particularly small farmers again, you know, as we as we had highlight it earlier on many of the of the migrants ending communities are located in areas or regions of the country where you have very high rates of poverty, and the tend to be rural in these rural areas, you know, it is estimated that I think over forty sixty percent of the population suffer from from poverty, and in the rural areas, eight out of ten individuals could be suffering from high rates of poverty areas where you have a lot of money attrition. And where these farmers may not necessarily own the land that they that they use to raise crops, so it's becoming very hard for them to have sustained sustainable lightly. Hoods aside from you know, the issues that we've also raised in terms of climate change environmental factors that have also greatly impacted. Food security in the in this area, right Louis. Get your thoughts about this. Yes, definitely peasants used to be able to take their save a little bit of their their corn crop and be a go to market to sell it and get some cash now that corn is doesn't bring any money because the US subsidize scorn is much cheaper. So let's just remember people don't leave home because they wanna go take a trip to Disneyland people come here because they're desperate, and they come here because they are jobs, and because people along the way from the smog alert to the landlord in the receiving towns are making money, and then when they get deported the private prison system makes a lot of money the private planes that deported these emigrants make a lot of money. So let's let's really try to see the the the overall picture Lewis. Help us do that. Because you knew you're right in in these kinds of conversations it's easy to get pulled into abstractions, right and policies and abstract. Language, but so so put a concrete face on this. When you say people are desperate waters. That desperation look like what are the lives of some of the people that you've you've included in your in your film, making about what their lives are like on a day-to-day basis. That's forcing them to leave. Yes. There was the man that I'm that. I'm following right now, he grew up of being one of seven brothers and last week. I interview him, and he was he he ended up crying and saying how what he wanted to do was to help his parents who still don't have a piece of land of their own or a roof over their head. They have to beg for place to stay. How he grew up with his mother cooking grass from from the surrounding areas and buying the cheapest Mehta that she could find so. She could feed the whole family, and now he wants to to repay all the efforts of his parents. That's the kind of this pressure that is bringing people here. Well, let's go back to the phones. Let's go to Alzira who's calling from Tampa, Florida. I'll see a you're on the air. Hello. The United States has always been the promised land. And part of the problem is people want to come to America. Well, one of my suggestions would be that. We should go to the people and assist them with the with basics basic things to keep them alive and an inspired by gifts. I think that would be a great help because sustainability comes from both sides. And if we go there, it would be the best assistance to them, and they would probably want to stay there. And and continued to create a better world, the people who live there will. Thank you so much for your call. Let me turn back to you. This is again, this issue of what is it that the United States could or should do if anything to assist on the ground in Guatemala. She raises the, you know, a very good point as we have mentioned, these are long-term challenges that are going to require staying long-term investment, and the US, you know, should be focusing. It's assistance on hard. We help these countries address these challenges and to ensure that there is, you know, strong firm commitment on the part of the local governments to implementing the reforms that are needed in order to create more stable prosperous insecure societies I think in the short-term, you know, there are many people that are leaving because they are facing extremely dangerous situation high levels of violence that do deserve the right to protection into asylum. And so we need to ensure that we do have an effective system. That you know insurance due process for these families and individuals that are seeking asylum in the short term Lewis, I'll get s q quick question here. I mean, we've been talking a lot about assistance at the United States could give back in two thousand sixteen or I should say two thousand fifteen in the Obama administration's 2016 budget proposal. There was a pledge for a billion dollars to assist Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala that appropriation was cut pretty significantly as the budget went through through congress. But I mean is that the kind of dollar amount that we're talking about? And if so what's your response to people who say, the United States shouldn't be spending any money, they're that that Guatemalans ought to fix the challenges within their their own borders. Okay. The billion dollars out of while my wanted that will be I think seven fifty or less million dollars, which is no small change, even lift consider even the two hundred and fifty million have been given. Watermelons? Let's compare that with the eight billion dollars in remittances that the Wasserman imigrants sent every year from the US. So you do the math, and it's ridiculous low amount. So this needs a Marshall plan and to those that say that the US should not be invested in Central America. Well, the US has been in Central America for years and years and years not giving but taking so a friend of mine recently said we used to have sugar here. But now the sugar is in the north and the ants will follow and great to the sugar. No matter how big the wall or how thick the wall is they will get gross. So we lost see this. As what it is. Which is a global problem. We should realize we have an aging population. We need the workers we need young people. People in this country. And if nothing else immigrants are the ones keeping the American dream alive. Our generations were comfortable, we're not struggling the way, these people are so it we still think that the American dream is worth fighting for. Let's let's keep it end to this. The strenuous less welcomed them. And let's help them make a decent living here and there. Okay. Well, Adrianna BELTRAN. We've got a comment that's come in from a listener on Facebook regarding sort of how to handle the migrant families that are making it to the US southern border here. And Paul Norton says instead they should go to the closest US embassy and ask for asylum there, and when it's approved they can show up at the border Paul says, we should pass a law like Britain required minimum income in no state assistance for migrant families. What's your response to that? So there used to be a program that had been implemented. By the Obama administration. Call the Central America minors program that did provide a way for families kids to apply for asylum in the country of origin. If they had family here that program has I believe was ended by the Trump administration. Again, you're talking about a large number of families of kids that are fleeing very dangerous situations. So I do think we need to ensure that we have a process that allows them to apply for asylum in a timely manner. And that, you know guarantees due process while again, you know, we invest in these long term challenges. How do we make these countries a lot more secure more stable more prosperous, so people don't are not force to leave their communities and their homes will address built Tron director of the Washington office of Latin America's citizens security programme a non-government organization. Advocating for human rights across the Americas. Thank you so much for joining us today. And Luis Argueta Guatemalan American film director and producer directed a film series on immigration, which includes abused. The postal raid Abrazos and the u-turn he's currently at work on a new film looking at the lasting effects of family separation Lewis. I'll get a thank you. So very much. On point is produced by Anna Bowman Brian Hartson ski Eileen Amata Stefan at Sonus Ellison poli James Ross and Alex Schroeder with help from Matt hoesch a sealed QB, David Marino, and Alex pay Neha our executive producer is Karen Shiffman. I'm Meghna chucker bardy. This is on point.

United States Guatemala Mexico Lewis president Washington Christian Nielsen Adrianna BELTRAN director Representative Underwood NPR Luis Argueta secretary DHS Guatemalan government Louis NPR illinois producer
April 23, 2019: Plastic Waste Crisis In Southeast Asia, Internet Star Oobah Butler

Here & Now

42:28 min | 1 year ago

April 23, 2019: Plastic Waste Crisis In Southeast Asia, Internet Star Oobah Butler

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Fidelity Investments, taking a personalized approach to helping you grow and protect your wealth. Learn more at fidelity dot com slash wealth. Fidelity brokerage services LLC from NPR and WB. You are I'm Jeremy Hobson. I'm Robin young. It's here. And now today was a national day of mourning in Sri Lanka there. Still a state of emergency in effect and the island nation held its first mass funeral for the victims of the Easter attacks as ISIS claimed responsibility for the bombings at churches and hotels that killed more than three hundred people local police had said the attackers were a local group, and there's been outrage that Sri Lankan security forces acknowledged they were warned earlier this month that that group might attack BBC security correspondent, Gordon Carreira is watching all of this. And Gordon, we know the US had claimed defeat of ISIS in Syria. Now this claim from ISIS of attacks injury Lanka is a credible. I think it is credible. Yes. We've just seen some more information, which includes a picture of some of the alleged attackers that ISIS has put out through their official news agency and identifying which targets they may have struck and that comes after an initial statement simply saying it was their fighters, but with no more evidence. But I do think this would help explain a crucial question which was how what looks like a local group was able to carry out one of the most deadly terrorist attacks we've seen in recent years. And I think there was always this question about group which would previously be known for vandalising shrines how that group could suddenly transform itself. Both in terms of who it was willing to talk it and on what scale, and I think some Roaf ISIS would help explain that. Well, and we were wondering and again, it's just speculation. But maybe the ISIS strategy was to occupy a lot of resources in Iraq and Syria fighting them, they're drawing, the the the Kurds and others in Syria. The US fighting them there while they did sit up operations in other places like Sri Lanka. I think. There's certainly a case that the the ISIS ideology persists beyond the end of the physical caliphate that they they ran in Iraq and Syria. And I think it's also the case that at the moment, they're very keen to show that they all still around. And so I think in a sense very keen to try and carry out attacks have been some others in other countries in some in some quite surprising places in Africa as well where where we've not seen activity, and he's almost as if ISIS is trying to say, you may have driven us ounce of what we thought was going to be all caliphate, but we all still around for the long term. And that's an important message from their point of view for their supporters as well because they want to keep their level of support up a not look like they already defeated organization. Well, what about what about the thinking that the Sri Lankan attacks might have been retaliation for the attack on the mosques in New Zealand? It's possible. I think there is some sketch. Tisza about it, partly because this kind of attack sophisticated detect we've seen in Sri Lanka would have taken a lot of planning to get hold of so many detonators, and they repairs to be intelligence warning about some kind of preparation two weeks ago. So if you if you count back from the Christ Church tight, which was just over a month ago. It seems hard to think that it all started and came together in that short period, it's not impossible. But but there's a bit of skepticism about that possibility. Well, and speak about those warnings that came to local police they were said to have come from the national. I believe it's thou Feek damalf. That's the group that they were concerned about that. They believe that that's the the group. And and what's amazing is that these police reports which appear to be basically intelligence from a foreign country suggested that this national toe with dramatic was planning some kind of attack perhaps on churches and the detail of their intelligence report is remarkable because it includes names. It indicates there was some kind of surveillance for the people of been arrested. Exactly. And really raises questions about why wasn't more done to either protect the locations or to go after the suspects now when Sri Lankan officials have been asked about that. They've said, well, we didn't expect anything like this. And of course, no one did. And this this attack really is completely out of any kind of expectation levels for the kind of we've seen in Sri Lanka off from that group. But still given that kind of specific intelligence is really going to be a serious problem for the Lincoln authorities to answer questions about intelligence failure. When they had that kind of intelligence and do not appear to have acted on it. Well, and to be clear again the national tau week to math. Yep. If the warnings came about them, and some members have been arrested is that ISIS kind of throwing them up as a front were they coordinated it is too early to be sure I think the question is is this a local group which had been around for some while and it'd been involved in. In communal tension between the Muslim and the Buddhist communities in Sri Lanka. And then was there some kind of contact with ISIS, which transformed it and shifted it. But what I think is noticeable as you take this group national toe with gymnasts which previously had been focusing on the Buddhist community and attacking shrines, and suddenly, it's attacking Christians and attacking tourists. Both of those are classic ISIS targets. So something looks like it happened to this local group which made it much more in line with the ISIS ideology. Now what that is. And quite where that connection took place that we don't know yet. That's BBC's security correspondent Gordon Carreira in London. Gordon? Thank you. Thank you. Well, we've been reporting on the problem of what happens to all the plastic. We throw away in this country used to go to China for recycling, but they banned plastic imports last year. So now much of it goes to other countries in southeast Asia. Instead problem is according to a new report out today. Those other countries can't handle all that. Waist as part of our series going to waste joined now by boat, but congress the regional plastics campaigner for the global alliance for incinerator alternatives, which published that report, she's on Skype from the Philippines. Bo welcome. Yes. Thank you. Well, which countries are getting this waste, and how much are they getting well based on our research. We looked at three of the biggest countries that are receiving waste. This is Indonesia Thailand and Malaysia and how much the getting based on our research. The Thailand was getting a more than a thousand percent increase. So that's pretty huge and that been right after the the band that China imposed on imports, and what are they doing with all of this plastic waste. Well, they're trying to sift through all these plastic ways. It's basically mixed ways than than they're trying to get whatever they are able to. Recycle from the waist. Sometimes they find money in our report, we we saw people they would see dollars and euros. And of course, they are able to get a few things like maybe Cupper from all the cables that they get included in the shipment. There are a few like hard, plastics, maybe a few classics that they can recycle. But in general, a very small amount is really recyclable the rest, they send it to the cement factories cement kilns to be used as fuel to be used as fuel. So then the fumes and up in the atmosphere. That's right. So all the pollution is ending up in the environment. So it's in the air in the soil in the water. And in the report that we without today. You can see stories of how people were suffering like there were reports of MS. Carriages? There was one farmer who said he had to buy water for his cows. So that they could drink water because she he could not give them water from his land because they were polluted. And have these countries in southeast Asia tried to push back or regulate what's coming in? Yes. A few months after that happened when China close its door, Stu waste imports Malaysia and Thailand tried to put in some restrictions. So they will be banning some imports of waste starting twenty twenty one I believe, so it's only a matter of time, then before these countries, it sounds like follow the lead of China and say, no more. Yes. Yes, right now, the bigger more waste is going to Indonesia because Indonesia is way more lax in way, more open to receiving the wastes. Now, if the waste is just sitting there in landfills in these countries, the concern around the world is that it will end up in the ocean. And a study in the journal environmental science and technology estimates that up to. Ninety five percent of plastic pollution in oceans is coming from Asia and Africa. Why does so much of it ended up into the ocean? Well, plastic is very light. It's easy to be carried by the wind. And also, sometimes they get carried into waters and streams and rivers. So that they drain into the oceans. So there's there's no regulation or any kind of measure to keep them enclosed facilities at this time. Because a lot of these imports are being dumped openly in open fields and farmlands and the have been converted into dumpsites. So what do you think is the solution to this? Obviously the world is going to continue to produce a lot of waste and a lot of plastic waste right now. What can be done well, primarily we would like to see reduction in the production of plastics. There is no other way. That we can reduce because we've seen that recycling isn't enough globally. We are only able to recycle nine percent. According to the disticts, unless we change the way we look at how recycling as Lucien we will never see the reduction in this kind of waste and the problem that it will cost to our oceans and to the environment in general. So we believe that we really have to cut down on the production the consumption and the disposal of plastics that is both a congress who is the regional plastics campaigner for the global alliance for incinerator alternatives will link you to their report out today at here now dot org. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Do you know the name Yuba Butler, if not he might be shattered? He's made a name for himself making a name for himself when he was a teenager. He made calls pretending to be Martin Davey rock band manager extraordinaire that was to get his band booked at venues later, he talked his way into Paris fashion week claiming to be Giorgio pepperoni the van beyond the knock off jeans jeans exist. The man does not never mind. He was wined and dined then there was his completely fake restaurant. The shed adul- which by enlisting his friends to make comments on trip. He managed to get the garden. Shed he rented to live in to be the number one rated restaurant in London his burner phone ringing off the hook. And when people would call the book he'd say sorry, we're full up then just to see how far he could push his luck. He turned it for one night into an actual restaurant with a friend playing pretentious waitress to perfection. Let's listen say a fateful vegetables on chef. Smart. They still lack from sizes to be a little garnish his forge the what from the chocolate bars. Just listen, we'll find out the video how to become Tripadvisor is number. One fake restaurant was seen almost forty million times on Facebook Hoopoe Butler, hit the media became a motivational speaker does not live in the shed anymore. And now he's published a very thin little book about how he did this. And maybe that's the point. Because the title says it all how to be s your way to number one Hooper Butler. We cannot say that word even though our president does. So we we asked that we go with Bs and welcome. Thank you so much in me. It is very thin little book. But there's a nugget in there about how as a little kid. You wanted to get something at the dime store or something and your parents said, no. And you went and what sold seashells. That's right. I took to the beach collected everything could solve them to pass us by and raised enough to go and off the toy. So I had the last laugh in that situation. And so a scam artist was born. He are selling shells to people who are steps from shells. How would you characterize yourself? I said scam artist wh-, how would you characterize what you do? I think I you know, I was entertaining people of always like entertaining people and of grown up a little bit. Now, you know in this book about this kind of method of using not being overly invested in. What you do and using that to achieve in life. And I guess the it changes all the time. Right. The way that we identify themselves. And yeah, would style is what I look back out. I think I was trying to entertain people and myself definitely, well, but you know, you wanna pull the wool over people's eyes. You you know, you go as Giorgio petty Onny. Fashion show. And you know, maybe some people would say well shame on them for being so easily fooled by the sky and these cutoff shorts you cut the genes down and put sunglasses on. But on those might say when it gets to the restaurant part, you know, people who genuinely thought that. Wow. There's this great restaurant. I wanna go see what what was your thinking? Here was it about really getting at Tripadvisor, which I think you worked around trip advisor at one point. Was it getting at that kind of pop up restaurant scene where people have to go to the latest greatest thing. Like, what were you trying to get at a guess the? I mean, I could have definitely been one of those people in the shed. I think we we are all those people who want to the shed the reason I wanted to eat those because they would told that they couldn't eat the nothing this already human about particular about these particular people stupid or that was most trying to say and then trip adviser, you know, I am a previous life worked in restaurants. Aunts and behind BAAs, and when people left one star reviews, the whole stuff would be you'd get it in the neck. So when I started writing, and I started writing fake reviews restaurants for money on Tripadvisor as like a young, man. It was kind of fascinating to me to see that this reality that a lot of people take extremely seriously was pops false. And I felt that that was worth exploring could be gamed, and in were gaming the system as you say when you were writing false will you hire to write false reviews for real restaurants. And then you start writing false reviews or having your friends right false reviews for a restaurant that doesn't even exist. And as you say this supposed to be this anti-doping algorithm on on Tripadvisor that nobody could get around. So I'm imagining that was part of the challenger originally. Can I get around it? And you did. Yes. I mean, the opportunities that we got through that, you know, I had PR companies on its represent me reduce rates companies who might in-flight videos. To advertise. London wanted to come film there. There was hundreds and hundreds of minus leper influences people wanted to eat there, and you know, it was a complete fiction. Well, here's what people were viewing on your fake website with which you set up your photographer friend, Chris. There was some food pictures one was a dishwasher detergent, tablet, covered in Honey, another a blood of foam, shaving cream, scattered with pepper, and this is what you were presenting as the food of the successful restaurant. What were you thinking as it started to rise as it you start to see? Hey, we're the number five hundred restaurant. Hey were number three hundred restaurant. Hey were in the top one hundred. Oh my God. I'm number one. And it you don't even have a restaurant. Exactly. An all come from that complete. Non investment in the whole thing. I was just trying to enjoy every step of the process, which I did greatly one of the food is actually it's a ham hawk. It's advertised is in looks delicious. But if you on crop, the image, it's actually an egg on my foot, and it was kind of an accurate way of someone every step of the way, you know. I'm I'm not a good cook. But I was somehow I was able because I was completely cravenly freed not being so overly invested in. I was able to make this restaurant success, and I'd never made anisinov success before the book pamphlet, really, you're passing on what you learn to other people about, you know, metaphorically figure out the shed that you're in and how do you get out of it and have a toolbox again. We're staying with a shed analogy of tools that can help you achieve this kind of an idea. But then like go of the idea as you said Fiat ways to game things like make something a game. If you've got a goal. But ultimately, just let go of it not care about it. Yeah. I think what it is. It's kind of trying to help. Okay. So for example, with this book, I would love to become an bestseller. But the thing is is the it's not stressful for me that pursue it would have in the past been very inhibiting. But it's not stressful for me because I'm hey, like, I'm speaking to you right now. And that's the the book is already a success because of that I love this show. And like if I don't become number one than it doesn't matter like bird. But if I two than whoever reads this book will can apply it to whatever they want. Well, two things Yuba number one of my God. If I help you get to number one. I don't know what I'm going to do to myself. I mean with all the authors that I know we die to get to number one and refer back to your slim pamphlet. But you also say that while you let go of really carrying too much at a certain point do not listen to the doubters at all. Now that you're super successful. Yeah. Living the high life. You also say don't listen to the people telling you how successful you are. I guess what? I'm trying to do is this is less about kind of helping people to achieve success more about helping them to not be inhibited Jermaine and just come into the length of the book pump. The thing is with the book is a wanted to. It's very deliberate. Like a wanted my audience extremely young and you combat to get people to watch the second video said alive and Rada full book. So I was just trying to create something that was reactive and felt kind of appropriate to release. Yeah. I hope that people could already would like people to be able to read this at like, I don't think it's beyond anybody to do that. Yeah. We don't trust you about ler. Because now we don't know if you sat down and said, I got a great idea. I'm going to put together a little thing about how I did this. And then I'll be a number one bestseller. Just like I was the number one restaurant. We don't know. I mean, do you have people saying that too? I don't know if I can trust you Joe just a guess that it's just like I would just have to go back to decide like his younger, then and I was reacting to the situation of grown-up little now, I was more focused on entertaining people before. Now, it's like Connell, all you. Try and help people kind of do that apparently have been inadvertently practicing Buddhist kind of way of thinking about things. And I I don't know like I think that this this value in that I wouldn't be sharing it and thought, However, I can sympathize because I did go Christmas dinner last year migrate auntie said, please don't send a fake version of yourself. If people that close to me and not trust me, then I don't begrudge for fitness you mentioned Buddhism. But actually, I wondered if this was a joke or not in your acknowledgements, you credit a form of witchcraft. Yeah. It'd be a witchcraft you really believe that. Well, I think that it's kind of it's sort of an in between me and my family because my name is very close to what do I would give us one aspect of this witchcraft that you say has shaped every major decision you've ever made. I think that the thing is with a is. It's just the I'm considered to be extremely lucky and play by my own rules, and that is a line somewhat with the values of a bear on told over Butler. The getting the book is how to be as your way to number one Oba you are delightful or could I just thank my publisher web publication puppy of opportunities to get in bed with big publishers. But I've been amazing or small Brooklyn op press and all of them. Thank you so much that was an absolute delight. Thank you so much. This is a dream of mine. Oh, you say that to all the interviewers Noah on the restaurant patrons? I listen to a genuine li-listen tambi are viewed is this is really a delight. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Maybe by the way, it'll be a witchcraft his born in the Caribbean. It's also called science and spirituality. I think Uber's serious about Obea. But again, we sold MAC and cheese hope cuisine. This message comes from here. And now sponsor ember. Wake ember wave the revolutionary personal thermostat. That is designed to help you feel cooler or warmer at the press of a button ember wave can put you in control in places like you're freezing office uncomfortable. Airplanes restaurants, trains, cafes and more named one of time magazine's best inventions of twenty eighteen learn more at ember wave dot com and use code NPR to save fifty dollars. Check ember. Wave control your comfort. We're learning more about that militia grew based along the us Mexico border after a member Larry Hopkins appeared in a New Mexico courtroom yesterday on gun charges documents unsealed in court showed that the F B. I was watching Hopkins in two thousand seventeen after witnesses said he talked about the group the United constitutional patriots training to assassinate Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and George Soros Hopkins lawyer disputes, this let's bring in Angela coach Arrigo who covers the border for the Albuquerque journal. Angela you've read through this unsealed criminal complaint. What more does it say? Well, it's very interesting the weapons ammunition charges that Hopkins faces actually stem from a different part of New Mexico. Not here on the board where I'm located where this is all playing out. It was actually in the follow 2017 that that the FBI went into his residence and flora vista. New Mexico and found multiple weapons and had been watching him and had learned through witnesses that this group the United constitutional patriots that he claimed to be the leader of were training. His home was the based for to Zenit, George Soros, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama because they believe that these is quoting now the complaint, these individuals supported antifa antifa. Of course. This group of left wing activists who have clashed with right wing groups in recent times, but we did anybody witness them actually doing that training. It's unclear the witnesses saw multiple weapons, and it was confirmed when they entered the residence and by that time Hopkins was had already had three convictions and was not as a felon allow to possess weapons or munition in in the complaint says he claimed these belong to his common law wife, he also had technical bulletproof vest. So so it's unclear and it also does say there were. Twenty people that that have been observed going to this it trailer park in this remote area of New Mexico to train, and I guess plot these alleged activities and to remind people this all came to light because video surfaced of members of the group rounding up and holding and detaining asylum seekers families people with children at gunpoint. And so this arrest was because Larry Hopkins as you said was not supposed to have guns. He was a felon. But the question is what happened with those complaints that he and the group were training to assassinate at that point a former president how is it that you can be walking around on the border then detaining migrants. I mean, can you fill in that gap? We don't know why it took so long. And of course, the group is and the lawyer filler Hopkins is the legend is these charges are kinda just pulled out of thin air to get him off the border. The lawyer for Hopkins also says his client did not have weapons here on the border that he was merely there at the. Camp now Hopkins identified himself to me when I interviewed him a while back as the commander of the group and talked about they needed weapons to protect themselves from drug, smugglers and human smugglers. But yesterday, I talked to the spokesman for for these United constitutional patriots. And he told me no he was simply a cook at the camp. So there's a big dispute over that. But it it is not clear why these very serious allegations and in this complaint detailed here, we're not it seems followed up on because cop-killer was out on the border and has been for several months leading this group or cooking for them. We're not clear to paint on your version of what was going on. It's Angela Kutschera a border reporter for the Albuquerque journal and Angela I have a feeling we'll be talking to again as this story unfolds. Thank you. Thank you. Aw. A competition known as the Olympics of hula is underway in Hilo Hawaii this week the Mary monarch festival brings in competitors. From around the world people from different allows or schools to dance to Malays or songs. Their led by Kuma, hula or leaders one of them is chaotic cope. Woo. Who's allows performing in the festival this year and has been a top finisher in the past. He joins us from Hawaii public radio in HANA Lulu kaneohe. Aloha welcome to hear now from Hawaii Malo Nui for having me. It is great to have you. And the Merrie monarch festival was named by the last of Why's kings in the eighteen seventies. King Kalac cut love who is credited with restoring Hulas place in Hawaiian society. He called hula the language of the heart and the heartbeat of the Hawaiian people. Tell me what is Hulas place right now in Hawaiian society hula has. Has changed a lot? But it has and still is the heartbeat of the people it touches upon every aspect of Hawaiian culture Fula is thriving at this moment, it has had another resurgence. I'm not only in the times of calico. But from the nineteen sixties in the nineteen seventies. Where culture and Hawaiian language was starting to become a little bit more prevalent, and Mary monarch is a very good. Benchmark. I guess you could say it is proof that hula is thriving. And you've been a competitor in this competition before what is it like to perform at the merry monarch? Well, I've been in many different roles at the Mary monarch since one thousand nine hundred ninety. So I've started off as a spectator. I'm from Hilo. It's just the. Kind of the fabric that makes up Hilo. It's part of that fabric that makes up the small sleepy town of Hilo on the island of E. And then I became a dancer since nineteen ninety. I was I've done costumes and laze and hair and chanted and saying in now, I'm taking my own Hulo along with my fellow from Buddha. Lana Padilla, we have our own Hallo Hallo, he McCullough who and we're taking them to compete in the whole scope of things, we're a very young allow the where the baby whom hula amongst some other baby formulas, and then among some of the elder KOMO Hulas as well who have been in this competition for thirty forty years. So we're very honored. And we're very proud to be able to take this journey with them. And you have to actually be invited to this. Competition. Right. Yes. Yes. And the waiting list is pretty is pretty long. We waited a few years we just celebrated our tenure anniversary. You know? It's kind of not usual that newer allows just all of a sudden in five years entering Mary monarch many people wait ten fifteen years just to get in. We've been listening at to one of your favorite hula San's ENA by the brothers Causey Mero. Why is this one a favorite of yours? And what do you do when it comes to the dance to this particular song? You can hear their voices strong gentle. It really tells the story of what tells them a little of what the song really talks about talks about new love it talks about. How love is like cease spray and how when when when you're deep in it. It's it's like being drenched by this cease spray of Enna, which is the most westernmost point on the island of all who we we had a chance to travel to and it's kind of a rough travel and rough hike, but once we got there it was just green and beautiful. So a lot of emotions go into this smelly. And a lot of what we call it. Pain and not just pain and agony pain of love that that when you're so in love in your soul deep in love that it hurts even if it's good hurt. There's EPA what is the difference between a man's role and a woman's role in Houla, some some you can't really tell a very big difference for us in our. Hello. There's a there's a huge different our boys. We try to teach them to be strong masculine as well as graceful. And what men often think is that grace only belongs to women or is a feminine characteristic, not soul. Not. So if men didn't have grace, we'd we'd really look awkward. The women really emphasize. As their hips. They really emphasize the grace in their hands in the wave in their hands aren't men that. We don't wave too much. I want to ask you about an instrument that we hear in some who this another one of your favorite songs is called Mahala. He nano. This is composed and reported by Johnny Lum ho in the background in this. You hear the Lele which is an instrument that Portuguese emigrants brought to Hawaii in the nineteenth century. How did that change hula? Well, it opened up a whole new world. I think hearing different types of. Keys and melodies that came along with Christianity and him music, and we actually have Meli or songs about the actually chance about the first time people hear the sound of piano or the sound of an Lali. Lele? And it's really interesting because now we don't think of it as such a big thing piano is a piano back in eighteen hundred. It was quite a change. It was quite a change. You know thing things that are introduced the mirror Hawaiians never saw a mirror before. Then so mellow were written about that. So it's not it's not surprising that letter came about and just kind of exploded. And now everybody's around the world is learning how to play. So let's just go back finally to the Mary monarch festival that you'll be competing in. I just want to ask you like how does it make you feel to hula especially when you're doing it in competition? That's an easy question. And yet such a hard question. How does it make me feel? Well, it touches on every part of my senses. Not just because we need to see and we need to touch and other people can see our movements. But. It's really hard to dance hula. If you don't feel it just makes you feel for me might also census start to work. All senses are activated. I am able to release emotions that maybe my everyday life doesn't allow me to at the moment. Once I'm dancing. Why I'm chanting? I'm in another world a lot of times. I don't remember a performance. If you know, if the my way Lua, my spirit is dancing. One of the hardest things is to actually captured it feeling to actually take your audience with you in into your Mela. Take them back to time. Take them back to those those experiences that your song is talking about that is Kiana cope Oooo joining us from Honolulu Canada. Thank you so much Mahalo and Aloha good luck in the festival. Thank you very much Mahalo new for having me. In Tehran today. The Iranian parliament voted overwhelmingly to label all American military forces terrorists last week. They voted to label any US forces in the Middle East terrorist. Today's vote expanded that and follows the Trump administration, designating Iran's wrote revolutionary guard a terrorist organization also yesterday, the White House said that now no country will be exempt from sanctions if they buy oil from Iran, President Trump reimpose though sanctions when he pulled the US out of the Iran nuclear deal last year, but he gave some waivers now he's rescinded them. Barbara slave in is director of the future of Veran initiative at the Atlantic Council, and Barbara were thinking the we spoke to you. When those sanctions were reimposed. How would you characterize this ratcheting up? Well, fortunately, at least on the Iranian side. It's it's primarily rhetorical political. At this point. I think the real concern is that Iran depr-. Private of oil revenues, despite the fact that it is complying with the nuclear agreement might actually pull out of that agreement and start exceleron ding its nuclear program, again, I want you to say that again because for those trying to we need white boards at this point to follow this and the president pulled out of the nuclear agreement and impose sanctions, even though every observer agreed that Iran was abiding by the agreement the logic behind the administration move, frankly, still mystifies made because had the United States remained within the agreement. It could have tried to negotiate with Iran and with other countries on other issues that are of concern to the United States instead by withdrawing from the agreement reimposing sanctions, what the US has done is created a great deal of enmity with many of our allies there, obviously, a few countries Saudi Arabia United Arab Emirates and Israel that have cheered on this move. But the peans rush. Sion's? Chinese others are very angry about it. So a year later, the US policy is showing no signs of success. So what do they do? They doubled down. And now insist that no oil can be exported by Iran to the rest of the world. This is this what is known as secondary. Sanctions. These are illegal under international economic rules, and the US is only able to impose them because of the strength of the dollar the importance of the dollar in the international financial system. So I'm waiting to see how the west of the rest of the world reacts will they still import Ronnie on oil. And what do we do? Then what do you which countries? Do you think might do that explain to us with these players? Are there are some countries that need the United States so much that they don't dare do it Japan, South Korea? Well, we understand that India said today, they will not buy oil from Iran. China and Turkey. I think have both been very open about the fact that they intend to continue to buy oil. India may stop for a while. But you know, a lot of people around the world not just in the United States are looking toward our twenty twenty elections. If President Trump is defeated many of them hope they can return to to normal business with Iran since this is really a policy of the Trump administration that has been rejected by indeed most of the Democrats who are running to replace President Trump. And what does it mean, you know, just give us more context for this? Oh, so let's say India doesn't huge country China, and maybe one other country do continue to buy the oil despite the sanctions, what does that how does that ripple out? What does that do to US China relations there in the middle of trade talks? It adds more complications to our trade talks with China at adds more complications to are already very troubled relationship with Turkey. But let's talk about American consumers. You know, price of oil is going up price of gasoline is going up you can't reduce Iranian oil exports and expect US oil prices or gasoline prices to stay low, which is another goal of the Trump administration. Remember that Venezuela which produces a similar sort of heavy crude to Iran is also having difficulties now it's under US sanctions as well US is trying to change the regime in Venezuela. So prices will go up for consumers. It will have an impact on everyone's economy. It will indirectly help the Iranians because whatever they can sell they can sell for more 'but. Why do you step back? Why do you think this is happening? Now, the Trump administration says that Iran is backing terrorist groups Hezbollah is a group based in Lebanon has there been a flare up of terrorism. I mean why these moves now? Well, I think it's frustration on the part of the Trump administration that Iran has remained within the deal if Iran pulls out then the United Nations European union will will put back sanctions that they had lifted under the nuclear deal, then the United States would not be alone in its coercive techniques. So I think they're really trying to go the Iranians into pulling out of the deal committing a major act of terrorism which thank God the Iranians have not done. I'm worried about possible as the military calls them second and third order affects in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. So there are a lot of ways in which you Ron Ken push back against these unilateral US actions. Barbara slave in director of the future of run initiative at the Atlantic Council. Berber? Thank you, always a pleasure speak with you. Thank you very much. My pleasure. And here now reduction of NPR and WBZ association with the BBC World Service. I'm Robin young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here now.

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Troubled Land

Fame is a Bitch

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Troubled Land

"From workhouse connect in Aj Benza vein <hes> he likes to be walked on a leash and play really dirty kinky sex keeps James is the guy put the cock and the peacock network. Okay Bitch. TAE EVERYBODY A J Benza here for fame as a bitch. This is your podcast for September ninth two thousand nineteen yes. The voice is just about shot. I'M GONNA try to get through these two shows today. A flu came back and knocked me on my asks over the weekend. I thought it was fine and Saturday night. I go to bed me just every time I swallowed swallowed a bottle of nails and staples barbed wire and taking some medicine but I think just rest liquids and all that stuff your mother told you it's going to get through this so let me give you like today. I tell you I spent a lot of time on my back and I wanNA talk about this show today. Because found fascinating I watched a documentary on the life of Quincy See Jones. I think it was on Hulu. I was going back and forth between Hulu Amazon Netflix. Hulu and I couldn't turn it off man. I've always loved Quincy Jones but it's almost impossible to remember all that he's responsible for with respect to music orchestration. He's done so much. He's one of the last remaining giants that are are still walking the earth right now well. He's in the wheelchair now most of the time but he was one cool motherfucker. He's still is but you gotta see this documentary. You don't know how much he means to you until until you see this thing everything from playing with the count basie band to heading up. Frank Sinatra's band to working with Michael Jackson making the off the wall album. I'm not to mention thriller and the Thriller Short Film Video which at the time was the biggest thing in music that damn thing got a red carpet premiere in Hollywood. He arranged <hes> the scores for so many movies in cold blood in the heat of the night the getaway the Italian job and let's not forget he produced the Color Purple Bowl and Adam a new this he actually convinced Steven Spielberg to direct the movie Spielberg was like nervous about any and he talked him into it and actually I didn't know this either. Quincy Jones basically basically discovered Oprah Winfrey and new the second. He saw her doing doing local news on a Chicago affiliate. He knew he found the proper person to play that role in the movie color purple didn't know that <hes> even the theme songs like TV shows like ironsides and Stanford and son was Quincy Jones work and he's gone back at his files and he was looking good stuff how much money he got paid for certain arrangements and you patch there. He was getting paid twenty bucks per arrangement for things in he did way back when twenty bucks to arrange an orchestra I can't it's I can't fathom it but I met him a couple of times years ago not that he will remember me but amendment the pot and a party thrown for vibe magazine which the magazine he started which really hit its stride in the mid nineties. I got around to tell them what the album Michael Jackson's off the wall meant to me. You know how when we used to play high school basketball the ball. We used to enter the gymnasium to the song. Don't stop till you get enough and that's all I think about to this day. When I hear that Song I think in me and my buddies run allowed the court to play basketball in front of our family and friends. I was wearing my chuck Taylor high top sneakers. I mean you know music. Invokes also memories in your head how I'd search for my parents in the crowd all that shit so he arranged the whole album but it's also an album that was playing in the Strip club. Gosh that we used to go to after our Friday night games so this is nine hundred seventy nine nine thousand nine hundred and off-the-wall came out in the summer of seventy nine so it was the shit our whole senior year and I remember strippers love to dance to don't stop to get enough and in that song would flow right into rock with you and I was having man me and my buddy. MARV used to take his mother's Country Squire station wagon which didn't always you start every time we put the key in but you know you kids. Nowadays don't know how lucky you had to take a con would break down as you coming back to the Strip club each it. It was very you know we we we are our hearts throats every fucking night but <hes> back in the seventies cars were very funky member that pre ignition thing a lot of cars cars hand which you would it would alert your parents. When you got home. Pasture fucking curfew the <unk> yeah I mean cars would would have pre ignition for like a minute after you turn them off and try to walk in the house. I'd walk into my car would still be spitting in my mother would be like L. A. J. What time is it. I ride my just don't worry about relaxed but Abed fucking cars were terrible back then and in two years after off-the-wall serwer serwer comes out and now I had a little bit of money in my pocket working jobs I could take out a girl here and there and those days as the song was always about WanNa be starting something and pretty young thing and beat it nine. Remember the first time I heard the song Billie Jean I was. Is that a club in Franklin Square Long Island. I forget the name right now but I know the name. I just can't think right now private is I can't think but <hes> when you have to dance if you saw pretty girl in a club you have to dance with her to get close to her. It took a lot of balls now. You just fuck a look at your phones. You send text messages to each other across the room. It's ridiculous now. Romance nothing back when I was there yeah you number from girl to write it down on a Napkin with lipstick stick. You put on your sweaty pocket. When you got home the last two digits of missing. You spent all day Saturday afternoon trying to figure out what numbers war that's real romance not handing a girl put digits fucking awful. It's awful so <hes> I will never forget. There was a girl dancing to Billie Jean and everybody stopped to watch this girl. I ended up talking to never made time with her but her name is Rose Valenti. I still remember that girl's name and it was nineteen eighty two. It's just you know something. Just stay in your mind so I mean I'm watching documentary. I just I couldn't get over for this. Guy's music and arranging and producing moved me throughout my life but when I first met Quincy Jones at that party he threw in New York City in ninety three to start vibe magazine. This is smack DAB in the middle of me being a columnist and running around with two puncture court. You're so that party was huge. It was at the very early beginnings of the East Coast West Coast rap rivalry war so the magazine was really important that magazine Zena the source where the two main magazines that were writing about and covering hip hop artists and rappers. That's what everyone was coming up in the rap game and the HIP okay <hes>. Snoop Puffy two PAC biggie tribe called quest Dr Dre Wu Tang clan old dirty bastard black sheep and last but not least this chick named Shiva who sang a song. What's up star loved it. Everybody was coming up. It was a great time to New York 'cause they everywhere and the music take balancing everywhere so I knew back then the two pop was sweet on Quincy's daughter. He got <hes> two-pack was known on for love and a lot of women but but dot Jones happened to stay with him for quite some time and it's been a long standing rumor. I know to be true that they were rashly engaged at the time of his death. They just kept it quiet. <hes> he was actually on his way to see the data the night he got shot in. Las Vegas yes and died in fact there was a moment where she actually might have been in the car with him that night but I want to ask Quincy about Japan because I had heard he didn't want to be with him and Quincy was absolutely convinced that a number of outspoken rappers were not gonna live long and the night of the VIBE party thirty. He got choked up. When he mentioned that he mentioned pox name he mentioned biggies name specifically and he got very emotionally he he's saying he wants to see you guys. I wanted to live longer than I live and he meant it because he started to cry but the straight up truth about Quincy <hes> he had a hard on on for two part. Two was on record saying how disgusting interracial couples are which is very hypocritical because DUPARC was fucking Madonna so oh I guess you can fuck a white girl. You just can't be with her. It was hypocritical <hes> but too cold out Quincy Jones for his relationship with white women <hes> uh-huh and grossly under cells what happened because park in his typically blunt way of speaking was quoted as saying back then all Quincy Jones dodges stick his dick and white bitches and make fucked up kids. You can imagine if you Quincy Jones. That's GonNa Piss you off and why you would say that about a man who was like the top of his game in the music that's to puck so he got him some shit because right after that that a couple of white girls who had messed around with wrote a letter to buy a limited in San Francisco and the basically the letter said you know you're in a threesome awesome with us. So what does that say about the night we had if you fucking both the bus white girls so he can he put his foot in it and I grabbed to pop one night and I'm like Bro. Oh I don't get it. You're against black dudes banging white girls but you know you're fucking Madonna. What's this all about and he knew he fucked up. He knew he shouldn't have said what he said he said. I'm going to reach out apologize it. You know I didn't see them as real people I shouldn't. I shouldn't have said that and that was the side of a lot of people getting a chance to see because he he really did have a soft off-side. You can't write you can't write dear Mama and not have a soft side but I knew he had a thing for good data because he mentioned mentioned a few times and he didn't WanNa fuck that up so every time he used to go to. La He ended up seeing Qadadha and I remember the first time he met Quincy he and Kadena where Jerry's Jerry's Deli and they were talking to Puck said he felt a couple of hands slam down his shoulders from behind and it was quincy and he said I want to kick it with you a minute man so could I walked away from the table and got all excited because Quincy Jones was at that point adapting. The Iceberg Swim Book called Pin and to pot wanted to make that movie really badly but snoop Dogg F every rapper America WanNa make a movie <hes> based on that book but Quincy had the rights. It ended up not happening but quits. He couldn't have been happy that his daughter ended up almost dying <music> at night that to Puck was shot in Vegas. You know it could have happened. It almost happened because she wanted to go to the after party. After the Tyson fight and Dan to park was concern and told to stay home 'cause they'd been a fight earlier that night with a crib and he told cadet stay home. It's not safe out so she weighed on their suite for him to come home and then she got a call as she was those off and she wasn't that concern because the president said to pox been shot she was like he's been shot five times before nineteen ninety-four so she goes to the hospital not expecting the worse when she got there. They handed her a bag of his bloody clothes. Jose jewelry and they told he's an ICU handed by a thread so it was almost not believable for Qadadha because a week earlier some mm psychic that to puck brought in had said that she saw to puck settling down in Vegas. The problem is she was right. 'cause Vegas is where he permanently settled but but the whole point of this story is that Quincy Jones was there for his daughter and as much as he was relieved that she never went out with him that fateful night right he was completely understanding with how hard she took his death because she was in bed for months after that and anyhow that seeing that documentary it brought back that night of talking to <hes> to Quincy and <hes> getting his feedback onto pocket all that shit but watched the go check this documentary it's on Hulu. I forget what it's called but he'll life and times a Quincy Jones something like that but I bet you don't realize how cool he is and how much he's went through till you see this doc. I touch on this our friend. Ronin Sinatra was added again over the weekend he <hes> he got a big tip. No this right now the story he wrote about Jeffrey Epstein donating millions to MIT. It's not something he was working on. He was handed that story board a whistle blower was was <hes> was happy with the way he attacked the Harvey Weinstein piece so he called rolling gave him everything so this fellow in his lab which happens when you're a big palace people do give you things but nonetheless. He cracked this big story about the university. MIT except the huge amounts of money from Jeffrey AFC not only that but they were accepting money and acting as if they weren't accepting his money they would name him. They called him the person who shall not be named. Ain't they made they made jokes about accepting money because they knew they would be looked down upon if people knew they accepting his dull and what's what's worse than that he was apparently directing. Bill Gates on how much money to donate to the school and what department to donate to this. It's a huge cover cover up and people are gonNA lose their jobs the the main guy at mit step down already. I was reading this stuff at four. AM The other night I couldn't sleep uh-huh six. I started looking at my phone and a happened upon Ronin feed. It just makes you wonder man what exactly Jeffrey Epstein an M. I. It were up to but it got me thinking what if the worst part of Epstein's operations were happening here in the United States. I I'm not talking about what his Caribbean island. You know what happened there what if that Caribbean island mansion and the story of pedophile Allah what if that were just there to distract us from what was happening here in America because he has that Zorro ranch in New Mexico and you gotta figure. Maybe this guy was doing things I know he was doing things way under the radar and all the dirty shit he was doing was happening <unk>. At that Spooky Property Calls Zorro Ranch New Mexico a ranch with not one single livestock on it by the way <hes> so yet Jeffrey Epstein was giving money to a lot of places aside from mit he was giving money to <hes> the Santa Fe Institute and it turns out the institute who is a global network of researchers who appeared to be aligned with Trans Humanism Right Trans Humanism. The projects like Epstein was knows known to believe in so if you look at Zorro ranch it's eight thousand acres in New Mexico with its own hanger and landing strip. It's an a very suspect location surrounded on all sides by Hollywood and the well connected King family we king families got tons of doubt but there is a buffer of about twenty thousand acres of Hollywood landscapes to the north of it and by the way this place was purchased. This land parcel was purchased by Tom. Ford the designer in two thousand one and suspiciously his name also so appears in epsteins infamous black book but with so many acres of land despite having a stable paddock this ranch showed yeah no signs of cattle or livestock and when you review the when you view the property through satellite imagery which I was doing all fucking Saturday morning there's no crops on it is no sign of anything. ARCA agricultural and every year the Albuquerque Journal the newspaper at their post legal notices what you have to do of what's being done at Zora ranch and the company was called Zoro Inc and there've been notices in the paper for years that Zora Ling one of the change locations of a well or dig deeper into new Akwa fires aquifers or or change the location of that well again and again why does that well keep moving and why would he need so much water if it's not using if he's not using the land for for intended purposes. Why is that water so import. What does he keep seeking permits to dig dig so deep. It almost seems like it's a bait and switch operation where you know he gets approval to build one thing and while everybody turns turns a blind eye. He digs something entirely different okay. This gets kind of complicated but it shouldn't be explain it very simply if we're using the industrial terms over we're talking about industrial settings the term reverse osmosis is used <hes> to remove dissolved salts <music> from industrial wastewater or treated industrial wastewater plants and the process involves big synthetic poles and letting the water the revamped rate in the sun but where is all the garbage water coming from on on ABC's property. was he building being an underground bunker. That's what some people believe an underground bunker with tunnels and all sorts of passages to connect him with a lot of different buildings the Hollywood sound stages that are being used. There's a lot of scientology buildings out that way. There are building. The Catholic Church keeps priests who were molested testing children. It's a sick fuck area back there so all this work with water and digging. I get the feeling and I'm not the only one that Epstein interesting was doing something underground because in this guy's mind he thought he was God you know he really thought he was God and I'll tell you what no one else is was talking about and I think is an interesting piece of news. <hes> Djilali Maxwell has a twin sister named Christine Maxwell. No one's really the people have said she's her twin and there have been reports that say she slightly older either way no one's talking about Christine Maxwell and it's odd because she he did work for the Santa Fe Institute back in the nineties for the Department of Energy. Now that's the position that has a lot of poll with with people the government cheese new president's she all sorts of powerful people that surround themselves with more powerful people and I think if you know I think everyone's looking at it just lane but meanwhile Christine Maxwell probably knows an awful lot of things about Jeffrey Epstein too but I think in the coming weeks and months <music> as well as these investigations proceed. She's not going to be able to avoid the fallout of all these people coming at her but I'm going to talk more and more in depth on the Patriot show today to sit and specifically about the Zorro ranch. I WANNA get some things out in the open. It have you guys. There's a lot of people doing their own work a lot of people doing their own digging. There's a lot of rabbit holes associated with Jeffrey these properties so for those of you who feel like you WanNa do that. There's there's a lot to look into but I'm GONNA. I'm GONNA end this. Show here because you can hear me. I gotTa do it on the show as well so hopefully tomorrow sound bad up the next free shelby. It'll be Wednesday. I'm sure I'll be good to go by then. Let me close out this before I go by thanking. My tippy might cream of the crop. I haven't done this in a while guys. I'm sorry I but I wanNA thank Angelique. Keller Chris Louis C. Lou Debbie Aniston Catherine Speed Catherine Stewart Patricia Markel Audra Fortune Chris Lavanchy Elise. He's Melanie Howell Wendy Magazi- Nicki Paterson George Canal Eric. For K <hes> Heather Brindell Alley Chichi Tran Angela Camino and Ryan Wolfe side about the boy skies. It'll be better days to check out these Patriot to hear more about Ronan Farrow article to hear more about the <hes> Zorro ranch and even a bit about Harvey Weinstein's latest news. I'm Jay Benza. That was your podcast for September nineteen. They gave up talk to thank you for listening famous. A bitch is an AJ Benza workhouse connect production featuring the endless wisdom insightful commentary and sometimes fucked up perspective of A._J. Venza executive producer Mike Agatha no technical producer Ryan Vazquez.

Quincy Jones Quincy See Jones Quincy Jeffrey Epstein Hulu Hollywood Zorro ranch Jay Benza vibe magazine Harvey Weinstein MIT New York City WanNa Puck Aj Benza Santa Fe Institute Christine Maxwell Michael Jackson New Mexico dot Jones
Probando probando  Capitulando la granizada y contraseas

Probando probando

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

Probando probando Capitulando la granizada y contraseas

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April 2, Hr 2  Jacqueline Tiley with Crossroads Safehouse

Mornings With Gail - 1310 KFKA

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

April 2, Hr 2 Jacqueline Tiley with Crossroads Safehouse

"This is mornings with Kale. Fueled by Great Western petroleum only thirteen ten KFI K. A. Seven oh seven on your Thursday morning. Thirteen Ten K. Thirteen ten KFI DOT com mornings with Gail with my puppy at my feet this morning. Zion Broadcasting to you from my home studio. Everything's fine just a practicing responsible social distancing. Well most of us are most of us of course under that Well Baying that stay at home. Order issued by Governor Jared Polis and maybe getting little bit stir crazy because well things have changed. You can't go out to concerts. You can't go out to theater while there's so many places that you just can't go anymore. Fort Collins nonprofit to crossroads safehouses bringing the music to u hosting. Its first couch concert this evening from six to eight. Pm joined by Jacqueline Kylie Executive Director of Crossroads Safehouse. Hey Jaclyn well good morning. And how're you this fine morning? I'm actually doing great I am a fairly new to crossroads And I work very closely with Lisa Papa. Who is our executive director I'm the Development Director Development Director. Are That's right. We're super excited to be here this morning. And we're super excited to have you so tell us about the couch concert Well for us. It was an idea and a different way to To do some fundraising in this time when we cannot be face to face With our funders. But it's also an opportunity for us to support Local restaurants in the area as well. So it's kind of a a two piece Concert Incense we told people to go out order undertake out from their favorite restaurant and so many restaurants support not just crossroads but lots of nonprofits in our area So we recommend people go out order early and then Just before six. Pm All you need to do is go to The facebook page or even the crossroads website and Click on the link For the concert event and it will take you to read. Tynan who is going to play live for us from six to eight so it's pretty easy. It's going to be just such a fun event. I don't know if you watched That livingroom concert that was broadcast Just this past Sunday where you had any number of performers Performing live from their homes. Vaster voice was kind of interesting because five of them were scattered across the country and somehow they managed to pull off the harmonies. So it's just a wonderful way to maybe. Oh I don't know yet. Some sense of normalcy in a situation and a time where it's anything but and when we look at these stay at home orders and the fact that Well we're spending more family time then. Perhaps we ever have before the sad reality of it is that well home isn't always safe. Is it no? It definitely is not And across the country we're seeing an increase in domestic violence cases and because people are stuck at home. Sometimes we're not seeing it just an increasing calls at the call centers We have a twenty four seven three hundred sixty six this year because February. Twenty nine days. she are crisis. Wine sees a lot of calls but There has been an increase in calls to Both the police department and the Sheriff's department is what we have heard. How has this changed? If any your operations at the crossroads safehouse well This crisis has changed a lot of things and it has changed A number of things for us. We usually Have an eight week. Maximum stay for residents and at this point We have had some residents who have had some place safe to go Who have exited However our policy has shifted so that during this time of crisis We are not exiting folks from shelter at eight weeks. We generally when people exit. They don't always have somewhere That is super stable to go and at this point in time it's hard for us in eight weeks to make sure Are there are less jobs in the workforce And many of the jobs that are resident would be looking at to help them secure both jobs and housing in that time frame so we have become more flexible in what we're offering to residents and shelter however we are still offering Emergency shelter even though we are fairly near capacity And we're also offering outreach to outreach. Clans who are not in shelter. It's just happening remotely seven twelve thirteen ten. Kfi K. a thirteen ten KFI K. A. Dot Com Jacqueline highly is development director with crossroads as safe house. I think this is just an amazing thing that you are doing on not only to support your own mission but to Support restaurants throughout the community. And bring just a little bit of lightness into our lives with. Tonight's a couch concert so give us everything that we need to know. All the details all right. The couch concert is tonight. April second from six to eight. All you need to do is order delivery or takeout from your favorite restaurant and then go to our website which is Crossroads Safehouse Dot. Org and it has the specific details. Just click on the link for the couch concert and then listen to retirement and send a text to couch. C O U C H At four three two one and you can donate to crossroads during the concert. Jacqueline tally development. Director Crossroads Safehouse. Thank you for this For getting behind this wonderful event and thank you for all that you do. Thank you guys inviting us this morning. We appreciate it And we hope everybody has a great day be well some fourteen now thirteen ten. Kfi thirteen teen ten KFI K. A. DOT com morning sweet. Gale live local. Fueled by Great Western Petroleum. Hey your member of the war I mean the out right outrage over. Those dreaded evil plastic bags turns out. They might be our saving grace in a time of cove in nineteen details coming up while the whole sports story in northern. Colorado the state in the country you tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two and Thirteen Ten KFI AKA. It's always your turn to comment text. Kf K. Eight two three one nine nine six to get involved in the conversation mornings with Kale continues now on thirteen ten KFI K. Yep and it's not a reusable one either this ask plastic bags those dreaded evil horrid. Plastic bags are making a resurgence to Comeback Corona virus. Seven twenty one now. Thirteen ten K. A. K. a thirteen ten K. dot com mornings with Gail live local fueled by Great Western Petroleum Yup as municipalities and states. Seek new ways to combat This novel Corona Virus Cove in Nineteen plastic bags. Used TO TAKE FOOD AND SUPPLIES. Out of stores are finding renewed. Popularity imagine as a safer alternative to those reusable bags. It's a strong reversal. For many jurisdictions with which have undertaken some pretty strong campaigns in recent years to ban the use of plastic bags public health officials store owners have acknowledged reusable bags brought in by their customers. Yes from their homes could potentially carry dangerous bacteria including the highly infectious covert nineteen benefit of a plastic bag allows customer to sterile bag and dispose out of it after a single use. So don't be stopping into Your plastic bag drawer in your kitchen. Yeah I know we've all got him. I got one too. But this greatly reduces the chance of the bags circulating around the community and in and out of Heavily tractive traffic grocery stores and other shopping outlets just last week. The mayor of Albuquerque New Mexico. Tim Keller paused their stringent ban on plastic bags of any kind for thirty days while guessing according to a piece out of Western wire president for the free market. Rio Grande Foundation said Cove nineteen concerns for health have temporarily driven back ardent. Plastic bag bans in New Mexico. Here's what he had to say. We have to bag bans locally Bernalillo Kelly County. Excuse me and the city of Albuquerque City acted I just two weeks ago. One of the big proponents of the Bag Band City Council President Pat Davis tried to close a loophole on plastic bag thickness guessing told Western. Wire that Hammering plastic bags at this critical time was out of touch yacht. Thank echoing his own op. Ed published in the Albuquerque Journal Just last week now. In his op-ed guessing pointed to many recent studies highlighting the health issues related to the use of so-called reusable bags that plastic bag opponents talent as a responsible replacement guessing wrote. Apparently Davis has no concern about the impact of this virus which has disrupted all facets of American life. This isn't mere hyperbole on my part of the problem with the reusable cloth bags preferred by Davis and other opponents of plastic bags is real Denver. Another major area that seems poised to act on plastic bags as well during the corona virus outbreak. Now the city of Denver was scheduled to implement a fee on the use of plastic bags starting July first but now Denver. I reports that likely the policy will be pushed back to two thousand twenty one to help protect public health. New York and Maine have also delayed implementation. Their plastic bag man's Massachusetts governor. Charlie Baker acted not only to allow plastic bags but went a step further and banned reusable bags. State Wide Baker said from now reusable bags or prohibited all regulations on plastic bag. Bans are lifted. Now some grocery stores have awaited state action and have prohibited shoppers from using those Lovely reusable bags. The National Conference of State Legislatures says that seven states including California and Connecticut. Have plastic bag bans along with several major cities like boulder? Why doesn't that comes a surprise Chicago? Seattle and Washington. A We'd love you. Boulder come on now Washington. Dc The organization also notes that State lawmakers have introduced at least ninety five bills in twenty nineteen alone related to plastic bags. They really need something to do. Don't they must of those bills would ban or place? A fee on plastic bags concludes Western wire. The use of plastic bags and other plastic materials is made possible from oil and natural gas byproducts. The Energy Information Administration says plastics are produced from natural gas feedstocks derived from natural gas processing and feedstocks derived from crude oil refining. Npr notes. That ethene is a building block for plastic and that America's strong natural gas sector is powering of booming plastics industry. This as a plastic bags. Make a resurgence of return to grocery stores. Shopping outlets near you to help. Combat coveted nineteen seven now thirteen ten K. F. K. eight thirteen ten K. F. A. dot com or any swit- gail from Lavar coming to you this morning from my home studio just in the interests of responsible social distancing with my puppy at my feet if your puppy your baby pet ferrets your hamster hampster cough but your pet hamster hug this morning. It's GonNa make you feel a whole lot better. All right coming up probably saw this really trip weld county jail inmate and four employees have tested positive for Co vid nineteen and Let's just say that Weld County? Sheriff Steve Reams is a little bit frustrated by the lack of Povich nineteen testing. We're going to check in with weld. County Sheriff Steve Reams when he joins US this morning at eight five and once again so many questions swirling around about those stimulus checks particularly if You're on Social Security. If you're a retiree if perhaps you didn't file a tax return in two thousand eighteen or twenty nine thousand nine hundred because you remember under the guidelines of this cares bill and again This means a check will be in the mail probably within the next three weeks for those that qualify but so many questions remain. It's so complicated on so many levels as to who was actually eligible to receive those chats. And who isn't so. We're going to work through that just a little bit with a great sponsor of the show. Tie Allen of H and r block of Greeley with two locations in Greeley to serve. You Tie Allen's going to help us kind of work our way through the weeds when it comes to those stimulus checks when he weighs in this morning at eight thirty five all right. There's jobless numbers came out today and Well they're pretty devastating but not totally unexpected as once again. The Nation reels from the impact of a covert nineteen coming in those jobless claims coming in at about six point. Six million. Many experts had predicted that that number would be about three point. Three million so again jobless claims doubled of what the predicts those predictions of showed us initially. Then we've got oil begging the question. When is that oil war ever going to end? Tell you what we're going to check in with Keith. Wineman Presidential Wealth Management. No shortage of things to talk about their for sure as he brings us some insights and perspectives. Right around seven thirty five closing it on seven thirty now thirteen ten KFI K. Thirteen ten career preps radio is northern. Colorado's home for the past high school coverage. Catch me Dan Patrick. And the DANETTES. Weekdays nine to noon on thirteen ten. Kf KFI seven forty one now thirteen ten. Kfi A thirteen ten K. K. A. dot com warning sweet gale lot local field at by Great Western Petroleum. All right so breaking Just yesterday afternoon Weld County. Jail inmates and Five other employees tested positive for Cova. Nineteen now four. Employees tested positive. I should say about five Those five employees were put on a ten day. Isolation order after showing symptoms troy coverdale thirteen ten. Kfi KFI news director. Now Eight. Try Good Morning. Gail it's a case definitely where you could see this coming and worse you. Part of the trend has been just on a nationwide scale even that presumes jails and the like Are going to be bringing grounds. Unfortunately for what is a nasty virus if you just think about what we're going through in our everyday lives and then put Put in the situations that The prisons jails faced with in terms of the amount of people that are in their facilities at any given time and it's kind of an eventuality. Unfortunately that your number of cases. Yeah social dents distancing not an option that is correct and that's where things get really ugly. I did see one case where someone is trying to apply social distancing but the bad part about that is that then you're isolating into a situation where solitary confinement becomes the norm. And that's just that much more Albany issue when it pertains to people's mental health as well as their physical health. Absolutely right we're going to check in This morning with a Weld County Sheriff as Steve. Reams a little bit frustrated over this entire scenario because of the lack of testing well and there you go again with a running team unfortunately in that is the the lack of testing. I have CNN on here This morning and well and they're talking about the fact that now you're seeing the private companies. That are doing that testing as Beijing. Such a dramatic backlog too. So when you do get the testing Now you've got companies that aren't ramped up to be able to handle the amount of tennis that is necessary for us to be able to try and discern what exactly is going on with this virus in terms of the heart and fast numbers. And you don't I know that in many cases if you're a symptomatic you're not getting a test at this point could lend you could be as thirty percent are silent carrier exactly exactly. And that's where things get problematic because then if you're a carrier and you don't know that and you're out in public and you're out interacting at the grocery store as an example You are making other people susceptible unfortunately or dealing with susceptible people who could then come down sick just because you weren't aware and that's the flaw with trying to figure out exactly where we are right now because if the testing doesn't take place then you wind up in situations exactly like What occurred at the county jail in? That is that the virus gets brought in by someone who probably wasn't aware that they were carrying it. Unbelievable This as the number of cases continues to escalate in Weld County. It does and As well as in Larimer County yesterday in Weld County moved past three hundred cases to three hundred thirty one guy's now at thirteen that remains the second highest number in the state behind El Paso County larimer county now over one hundred cases and five deaths. That have occurred in Larimer county since this virus Began to take hold across the region as we continue to watch it. But and I know you were talking with with kice just a minute ago as well. The number that everyone's going to be talking about today above and beyond is is a tension will number to it and that is the unemployment number that was announced this morning. Unbelievable realize that in two weeks we've million jobs in the country. That's incredible I mean it. Just I mean this is just we are in a surreal time. We are living real time. Historian it's up to all of us To find to try to find a silver lining if we can yeah absolutely and number others can in our lives but It's GonNa take some work to to try to find those linings every day. No doubt absolutely well. I join you From Afar broadcasting from home this morning practicing That safe a social distancing so a virtual elbow bump to you try coverdells thirteen ten. Kfi News director back at you. Gale have yourself a good day? Be well some forty seven now thirteen ten. Kfi KFI TO UNC. Bears target game coverage lives on thirteen ten. Kfi for more on KFI programs podcast sports scheduling news goto thirteen ten. Kfi K. A. Dot Com now back to mornings with hail seven fifty two now thirteen ten. Kfi Thirteen Ten K. K. A. dot com morning sagale fueled by Great Western Petroleum. The chance a while back To Talk to a Weld County. Sheriff a Justin Smith and he wrote such a great piece in the Fort Collins Colorado because well we are going through unprecedented tumultuous times test of every facet of our being. Begging the question can anything good. Come out of all of this. Well Justin Smith Sheriff. Justin Smith wrote something that I found to be uplifting and inspirational. Here's what he said surreal. That's the best way I can describe our current situation for the last decade. We've planned four and conducted exercises for countless natural disaster and emergency scenarios everything from floods long-term disruptions of our power grid. We've always known that a pandemic was possible. But now that one is upon the world it is surreal writes Larimer County Sheriff Justin Smith in the Colorado and I find myself reflecting on the words of FDR in his first inaugural address as our nation faced. What we know as the Great Depression? Fdr said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. President Roosevelt's certainly wasn't denying that we had a momentous challenge ahead of US instead. He emphasized that the biggest threat to our nation was panic. Those words are hunting Lee predictive of the situation that we currently face no. We don't know what Challenges Tomorrow Brings. However one thing must be acknowledged. Our Creator made us resilient beings and we have the ability to adapt to tremendous change as I've studied witnessed firsthand responses to disasters. I've come to understand that. What most unnerves people is the unknown when we face massive snowstorms are devastating wildfires. We know how they occur and despite their damage we understand generally how they will subside while those events may disrupt utilities and supply chains. We understand what recovery will look like and we can mentally define the threat and it's not our fellow citizens however when we face a disaster was such a significant unknown like the current covert nineteen pandemic. It isn't always so easy to define the enemy and that can play with our minds. Medical experts scientists working at a feverish pace to decipher fact from myth. Move unknowns to knowns find ways to slow the spread treat the sick and develop a vaccine rights Thermo County Sheriff Justin Smith. I have tremendous faith and confidence that they will achieve their mission. It won't be without some missteps but let there be no doubt they and we will overcome. In the meantime we need to focus our energies on persevering. That's where our societal power exists in our ability to adapt and overcome what is most important. What is most important is for us to step up to and not. Step away from the challenges. We'll be defined by how we treat our neighbours. During this crisis I employ each and every one of you to be a beacon of hope in your family and your workplace and in your neighborhood. Please don't be the person that hordes b the person who is carrying and charitable with your neighbors. You're in a position to help someone in need. If not with money than with even more important resources those are your deeds. I know it's difficult. It's difficult for so many but rest assured we will come through and we can come through stronger for the challenge and he leaves us with one more quote. A famous response from NASA lead Flight Director Gene Kranz during the Apollo thirteen moon landing mission as the astronauts aboard the craft faced what looked like certain doom the director of NASA expressed what seemingly. Everyone felt when he said this could be the worst disaster Nasr's ever experienced. Gene Kranz responded with all due. Respect Sir I believe this is going to be our finest hour includes Larimer County sheriff. Justin Smith let this be our apollo thirteen moment. Let this challenge represent our finest hour. We'll get through this together alone. Seven fifty seven thirteen ten KFI K. While the whole sports story in northern Colorado state in the country tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two thirteen ten. Kfi K. After mornings with gale's stay tuned for the Dan Patrick show the whole show and the herd with Colin cowherd only thirteen ten k. f. k. manmade the web how to jail for employees tested positive for covet nineteen this according to the Weld County Sheriff's office work for peace by Trevor. Read out of the Greeley trip about five other employees Were put on a ten day. Isolation order this after showing symptoms but they were not attested a source of some frustration for Weld County. Sheriff Esteems who weighs in at eight? Oh five this morning. Abc News than local news. Coming your way in just a few thirteen ten. Kfi K. A. Greeley Loveland LONGMONT FOR COLLINS. Closing in on eight o'clock thirteen ten. Kfi Am preps. Radio is northern Colorado's home for the past high school coverage.

KFI Weld County director Colorado Larimer County Kfi Justin Smith Great Western Petroleum Gail Kfi Weld County Sheriff Gale Kfi K. A. Greeley Greeley Steve Reams K. A. Dot Jared Polis Dan Patrick Denver facebook
379: Dr. Yumiko Kadota and Medical Burnout, Michael Sam Reveals NFL Struggles

Throwing Shade

47:46 min | 1 year ago

379: Dr. Yumiko Kadota and Medical Burnout, Michael Sam Reveals NFL Struggles

"We need your brains. That's in order to find great advertisers. We need to learn a little more about you. So please go to pod survey or pas Cervi, depending on what part of the country and dot com slash throwing dash shade. And take a quick and unreservedly that Cervi that will help us get to know, you alot better. Plus was he completed the survey you can choose to enter for a chance to win one hundred dollar Amazon gift card for Mr Dick pic himself. Jeff Bezos, terms and conditions apply. That's pod. Cervi dot com slash throwing dash shade. Thanks for your help everybody. I guess who Nelson Mandela no wrong again. Hi, it's main Mondo, turn your great idea. Did you what? Brian bought a condo talk to me about it. I had my eye on that Colorado is in the same building. Yes. Turner, great idea. And I knew neighbors I have to tell you why. Because they like having trucks apparent it's awful. They parked moving truck forty five hundred feet away from me folk lows. That's what my Iran's turn Turner. Great idea into reality squarespace. It makes it easier than ever launch your patient project with your showcasing your work or selling products of any kind with beautiful templates and the ability to customize anything easily make a beautiful website yourself. I'm making a beautiful website called no more three prong chargers. So you the prong off? That's a whole website everything you just said dot com. Yes. If you get if you do get stuck squarespace spaces twenty four award winning customers super services, they're out squarespace dot com slash shade. And when you're ready to launch the offer shade to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website, or domain. We don't belong in the ocean high feminist Aaron Gibson above a central Bryant Safi. This is throwing shea women's issue. LGBT issue culture Austin. We are at you tonight at Imos tomorrow night. We'll be in Dallas Saturday night. We'll be Houston during shade dot com slash tour for all tickets and Sunday, I'll be at caso getting handle it. My I have a picture show you which I know makes bad hot you love this Aaron loves to use other mediums for radio shows. I wanna tell you. I wanted to tell us, right? It is do and I will be able to describe it perfectly. Okay. We'll put it on the Instagram later. Okay. So I was reading about your favorite topic Victorian things. I do love Queen Victoria, and how she laid out her husband's clothes every morning true. Yeah. After he died. I would she do it. She would wash may do is. She was in love with them. No. She was very much in love with him. And so every day until she died she would lay out his close for the day because it was a very deep. True love story, which is rare Emily blunt, very rare. Which is why there was the thing of all the time. I ask her where should get breakfast lunch dinner. Are we getting a sequel to Mary Poppins returns, which was a sequel Mary Mary Poppins returns to the return? Mary Poppins can't get rid of our what is this? Mary Poppins returning things that actually didn't fit Mary Poppins, Nordstrom rack. I would watch that. So a pair Mary Poppins read the back of the receipt. How many days do you have? It's right. Sometimes it's final sale. You don't Mary Poppins doesn't know that by the way, this looks like Mary Poppins. Okay. So apparently, I was reading about Victorian shells shells, people were obsessed with shells and the Victorian era. Okay. So they would make things like your if your husband was a sailor, and he was going overseas. He would bring you back something called a sailor's Valentine, which is a bunch of shells shaped in a heart and you put in a picture frame. And then you put it on your wall to remember, your husband going to be honest with you. It sounds really ugly. It's so, but it would be cute if the sailor in Victorian times brought back the two shelves that go over the boobs for a bikini. Oh, yeah. Like a girl. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I like that. Okay. So apparently wants the sailor Valentine was once that trend was over town. Yeah. Then women's started going to the seashore. Desalegn come into this where they sell shells and making shell dolls that I want. I can't think of anything uglier. Yeah. Hideous Aaron showing me a picture of. Hello. Dolly style. Clam. Clam shells, clam shells in its figurine of Obama with an enormous hat and a parasol the info Bette midler, aloe. Dolly shells on native shell boardwalk empire had I would love. And by the way, that is what from now on when a when someone who I'm hooking up with comes over and knocks on my door open. It a crack and minute show them that doll and then slowly opened the door to see me revealed in full. Hello, Dolly gear. Yeah. I think what you should do when you make this shell doll is not glue. It I think you should put it together with some sort of like metal wiring or something. So that when you move it makes a lot of sound a lot of jingle jangle that'd be court. Why were they so into shell? Because they were like they thought they were onto some shit. You know, what I mean thought that they were like, oh, he discovered something that another. Way to make us feel rich. So because you're if you're landlocked or something and all sudden, you come back to Oklahoma City, and you're like five doll- shore. All the oil titans daughters from Oklahoma City would come back from their travels to the far east, which means North Carolina. Sure there would be like, oh, I was at. I was at the shore. That's funny. You should say that. And then they bring say sure. Oh, oh, okay. And then they would come back with these shell dolls and impress. God the whole their whole junior league or whatever it is like when on little house on the prairie reruns, which you do or do not watch new masturbate one of them would always like for Christmas. A girl would get like a red ribbon and she could not believe her luck. And she would just play with it for a full year, basically. But that's but that's based in. Okay. So when win England or about close where a huge thing. Oh, yeah. No, one makes clothes except me. I I want to dress up box me to address Bax spe Justin Timberlake when England wanted to get rid of all their trash people. And they trick them. Into thinking that America is the place to be sure or they did a bunch of shit where they would also like trick little girls into stealing spoons, and they'd be like gallon about you going to America Rosen colony style ribbons were often the thing that they had there was there. One thing her insisted they would be dropped off in whatever Plymouth rock, and then they would go to like try to find a room or whatever. And they'd be like all I have is. But a ribbon from the homeland because that's true. Yeah. It was now. And look where is the legacy of the ribbon? Now about me. No one wears somewhat. Did you say just stand ribbon? Can't we have that ended in nineteen fifty? I don't know. I don't think you've been. I don't think you've been to West Virginia Kentucky lately, I have where rock candy and ribbon candy are alive as well. What was the accident? You just said, please. Can I hear that again? Right canyon and brought where rock candy rim Kamiar or live is Wael. What what's that? That's my true voice. I hope you like it. What's still going on in the midwest those dots that are on that piece of paper? Like that's a candy that that is absurd. The easels. Yeah. It does. It looks like measles that you know. What's funny when in nineteen twenty nine when we had the stock market crash. It is what they would read the when they saw the stock market taking candy. That's like when the Titanic called for help. They all would read is that candy and during roll her too. Yeah, codebreakers. That's right. Navajo code codebreakers. And then now we now we eat the that's the, thanks. We give they knew it's fun. Some of its braille. That's right, right. What does it say? Anton candy candy. Oh, yeah. Well, guess what? I happened to me. This. Is it more exciting? No. It's actually it's excellent huge letdown from the shell dolls. This is it I'm gonna go first anymore because I want my stories are about your story was perfect. I wouldn't have changed a fucking thing. Shell though is I'm never going to some thinking about I wall wine amount of the kidding. In fact, I want one with a lamp shade on it. So where it's functional there. They make up on see I'm not joking. I went on because I wanted to I was trying to think if there's a way to like re imagine this for modern art, but there isn't so no. So this weekend. What happened to your dick is your dick healed? It's getting ninety nine point nine percent there addict up date. Thank you for the person who did the doctor who DM to me on Instagram and said, don't use hydrogen peroxide us, poly sporran have never heard of which is different than Neo. It is it has a different antibiotic. I think at it. Anyway, that worked wonders, and I'm pretty much all good to go off with it. I haven't I know you're dying for me too. I did. I did this. And how did you got this weekend? Did it hurt? It didn't hurt. It didn't just sort of paranoid the whole time. Yeah. I mean, you know, I climax, but it just I was like thinking about it was in the back of my head. Right. Okay. Did you have Halloween on is that why you're paranoid Kyo jet? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. That's what happened. It wasn't your it. Wasn't your dick cut? It was. You put scary movies on your right? I do all you saw. Shoutout to the guy when I was getting my haircuts sadder. Thanks for thing. On. Okay. Well, I didn't get my ears weren't covered in hair says you fair enough. I was getting my haircut, and I go to a very tiny place in a salon Republic. Everybody boats you go on tiny haircut tiny. And there was a guy waiting probably in his mid to late fifties sighing beyond belief, and it I it was a noise that I recognized that he was coming from his phone that I was like what is that noise? It's kind of driving me crazy. He was one of those that like full volume up on every notification received. Well, this place is so small and he's like every letter he types like, click, click, click low mouse with tap shoes. On exactly so I realized that the noise that was coming on over and over and over again because the grinder notification and that he and the also the noise of him, sending pictures, then I tell you that combined with the fact that I'd look over at him. And he was like. Okay. It was as if he were being it was as people planning his calendar that day, and he was just like receiving pictures and was just so disappointed. Couldn't believe what does what just wait. Wait -ment irritation. It was just the kind of thing you give when you've been in line at a Bank two long years. Like, oh, God is his Langan. And that's how it was like. God. And then click click click. He just sent pictures and then received some and again, just a sigh so over it. It was by the way, then he was my hero. Because I was like you give no thumb. They also why is he spending the time on there is that the is that the that? Haircut mate? He wants to fuck him fresh after a haircut. That's right. Wait did your person move toward they had a fancy salon and didn't weren't they didn't they move. They did move because their lease when haywire. I'll tell you. Well, the salon business is just Tony Aaron cutthroat. Oh, if you wanna be look, I have been lucky to have very a lot of fantastically normal hair people, but it has having worked in a salon for the French. Yeah. I tell you very nice operation. It's just too sweet guys who cut sweet hair great and they're tiny little space in salon Republic, which Rana hates. But whatever it is what it is. She she's she likes to think that things don't mean. I mean, he's probably still pay a lot of money for that haircut again. Yeah. It's a good haircut is a quality haircut. China doesn't understand Los Angeles. No, your hair looks great. It looks. It looks really is yours. Oh, thanks. It. Does anything than sodas your Sam? Hey, thank you very much. We've got. Some fresh air in here. Where are we going beat in air access and specifically in Austin? And then the next night we're going to be in Dallas. And then the next I we're going to be in Houston. And then on Sunday, you better believe it right at church. Absolutely. And while we're while you're busy not listening to throwing shade. No. You know what? I mean when you're done listening, this you should listen to deeper shade of shade. I have to say our guest yesterday. London Hughes knocked it out of the park. If you don't who she is she's about as up and coming as a gets from the UK. And yet check it out deeper of said, you get a free month with coach shade. Also are Oscar podcasts during shot Skar with Rana. And we have they missing out if you don't if you're not getting set your premium for two amazing shows. Yeah. Out right now, there's also throwing shocker and that code is Oscar is for free month. And we have the BuzzFeed panel coming up as well as we're going to be doing a post Oscar wrap up show, check it out. New year brings an opportunity reset and establish a new habits for her happiest held these cells and cut most of us focus on improving our physical health we need to resolve important mental wellbeing too. That's her called comes in. Help you sleep better date. Relax, if you had to come dot com slash. You'll get twenty five percent of a compromise subscription with includes hundreds of hours of programs like guided meditation that issues like exciting stress, focus. Including a brand new vegetation each day daily. There's also soothing music out. I got breathing exercises. General stretches relax your body. And more for limited time, you can get twenty five percent of a calm premium subscription. Adt com dot com size shape that seat eight L dot com. I shave get a limited access to all comes content comb dot com site Shane. The doctor is in and she's been in for a hundred eighty hour straight. And if he can't do the math, Brian that's a lot of days that's more than three days. And I'm sure of that. So am I that's at least two football fields. It's exactly so doctor you Meco Cadeau data a plastic surgeon and Sydney found herself at the ass end of burnout, medical burnout. Okay. According to a blog blog posts that she wrote that went viral. She was on call from Monday morning seven thirty AM until the next Monday at four pm. Good Lord Jesus Christ when she was done with her cycle, her whatever that on-call cycle, not our period guys every calm down. She got a whopping two days off. And at one point. She said she got four hours at interrupted sleep. And now is a good day for her. Now, I. And here's the thing. I get it. Like, I know it's not exactly the same. But like Oliver does like to sleep in my arms at night. But then sometimes he gets hot. So then he moves down to the bottom of the bed. And then hours later, he comes back into my arms. So I don't really get like reading. It's like what it's like operating. Yeah. I'm on call in bed all the time. Yeah. And sometimes I get an uninterrupted six or seven hours of sleep. So I get it. Totally. I totally get it. My point is I cannot can you imagine getting four hours of sleep in one week without ecstasy Coney Heo Hurtado live Cuba, die guide when you don't sleep. You get heart problems liver failure, you're fucking intestines. Go all wonky, your brain doesn't work. Basically your body starts shutting down. So the fact that they would do this to a doctor knowing full well as doctors that this is what happens she should be rested. Yes, now, she tried to requested a rearrangement she when she was logging after she had logged one hundred hours of overtime. She was like we possibly do something about this. Nobody did anything. She said non top of that. She was. Not taken seriously as a doctor by patients who were dismissing her kind of as a nurse, which is by no shame in being a nurse. They're doing all the fucking work. But she's she had a bunch of criticisms with this with what happened but long story short. She had an ER doctor, call her with non-emergency matter at three AM and she hadn't had sleep in like two days. She told him as inappropriate, and he told her to stop being a hysterical female at which point after she took a leave of absence came back was punished for leaving and taking a break. So was made she had to make up all of the hour. She was gone when she came back. So she had her previous workload plus makeup hours. I look I'm not a doctor. I know you are Brian. I I studied with the best Dr Phil, Dr Oz. Doctor on demand, doctor, Dr feelgood Dr patch Adams, doctor, I'm so glad you said Dr patch Adams because when you say, Dr Adams, people don't know don't act like new. Don't know Dr regarding Henry, Dr Neil, Patrick, Harris fiction character. Yeah. Dr doogie howser that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All the doctor. Yup. So she all the people. I'm married to medicine. Okay. After she went to her own doctor who is like you have to stop this. This is crazy got a note from her real doctor to give to her doctors who are boss doctors, they didn't do anything. So after twenty four days of working straight, she'd resigned, Cody I have a worked straight since God. What was I twelve? The last time you what made out with a girl. All right fine pretend to fifteen. All right. Caller fifteen or don't call me. At all, Jennifer. I'm still waiting for that paycheck. Who's Jennifer unrelated issue? She such a bitch. So she. Okay. So she resigned after twenty four days of work, even though she knew that it was going to get her blackballed from the medical industry for quitting, essentially. Now, I just wanted to read some facts about so this this blog post went viral. I it was hard to be a doctor. I didn't I didn't know it was like that. I didn't know it was crazy like that. You know, the sad thing is is that women make better doctors in general patients are treated by female doctors have lower mortality and readmission rates compared with male colleagues women's spend more time with patients during office visits and emphasize, preventative care and focused more on the psychosocial expert aspects of patient care, but the flip side of that is that patients are oftentimes more demanding with female doctors, probably because they expect more because they're women with a male doctor, you might accept like some behavior as just classic like while he's well, he's a male doctor. That's that's why he's not returning my phone calls, and let me tell you something I've had two doctors in Los Angeles, not return my phone calls, and you know, who they're not getting money from me or my insurance company anymore. I ever tell you about when I was at that party. And I ran into a gynecologist and. We're just we're doing small talk over the hump as you do. And she was like, I haven't gone to college. And I was like, oh, that's so funny. I'm talking about gynecology on our tour on our tour this year. She was asked me what I do. And I was like I had this crazy gynecologist here in LA. He, and I told her about the guy who took my out and made it have a cartoon voice also told me that I shouldn't get a double mastectomy because how will I breastfeed? Oh, you also know that he when I was writing my book, I was sometimes writing it in there because I would wait for an hour and one time he came in. And he was like what are you writing? And I was like I'm writing feminists book about like, you know, but bunch of different stuff like sex, Ed, and pay gap and all this stuff. And he was like my in it. Okay. Anyway. So I tell her all this, right? She goes what's his name? And I told her and she goes, he's my partner. They're they're in a partnership together. And I honestly at first I had the I was like. I felt embarrassed. And those like, oh, no. I was like you should do something about it. Because every time I say his name someone tells me another story about him. So anyway, hopefully, that's getting taken care of John. I just clarify say that the stories are at sexual what I've ever sexually assaulted. That's what I'm saying. He's just inappropriate. No. He just is like, oh, you're a comedian. Let's let's do some joke around well EA full hand in your fucking sharks. Yeah. Any Hugh what so point being women female doctors often experienced burnout at a sixty percent greater they're at risk burnout sixty percent greater than men. I didn't say any of that. Right. I know what you mean female doctors burn out risk is sixty percent greater than men and are greater risk for depression and are two to four times more likely to commit suicide and are very concerned about the consequences of consequences of reaching out for help because they don't wanna seem weak, and they don't want to seem like they can't do the fucking job, but their emotional sponges, and this is a generalization, but for the most part arguing so much more to patients because of their nature nurture. What everyone whatever what's expected of them. Perhaps they don't wanna seem cold whatever all the shit that gets wrapped up in being of being a female and they're getting fucking. They're getting burnt out because of it. I this. Doctor Kadota is doing something amazing after she quit. She is campaigning in Australia against the exploitation of junior doctors, and I hope more more hospitals understand the unique differences in experiences that female doctors have at their hospitals and take that into consideration. Because we need these amazing people saving lives here there everywhere. Patching up teenage knees busted from doing entry level par core on Santa Monica boulevard, helping breast cancer survivors, you know, helping if you have a hair plug incident, they can help you with that. That's true arns. Yes. Horned corn? Stuck your corn? Stuck inside? You've got corn on your feet. I did both gal both terrible. I say the next time. You see if you're female, doctor, which I only go to female doctors. Now when you see your female, doctor before she gets into the nitty gritty of helping you out you go. Hey, girl, take off your shoes. Okay. And then in your bag, you have whatever kind of lotion meant, a eucalyptus, whatever k- you take her feet. You put them right on your lap. And you just go to town massage them, but way to the lotion soaks in because you don't want the doctor then leaving because the hallways slippery. And then on and then. Yeah, you have a whole lawsuit. Then you get sued. Yeah. So you have doing something totally normal. I'm famous for my smile. Hi. It's me. What's your name? Gun gun gunny gunnysacks. Listen for all of you who need to dose something. I'm here to tell you quip is the best electric toothbrush created by dentists and designers. I'm calling it the best. Why is that? It is sleek. It is cool. I put mine right on my mayor. So it doesn't take up any counter space. It's not clunky. Like other electrical toothbrushes, truly it is designed so. Well, what do you think my gym bag it does? Okay. It when we go on tour. But he think I'm taking with me. All right. Okay. It has a built into minute timer. So at pulses every thirty seconds to remind you to switch sides has a multi use cover that goes right on your mayor. And also one of the first electric toothbrushes accepted by the American dental association. Seriously. I loved this toothbrush. Quit starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash shade right now, you get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush that you. I refill pack free at G E T Q U, P dot com slash shade. I say whenever someone comes over. They say do you like your quip because they see it. And I say, I love it guys. They're backed by over come into your bathroom. I don't know any delivery precipitates, vitamin save money become to my toothbrush collection. That's the one that night. Really cool. Don Cheadle moment this weekend on SNL. He when he was in trolling the band. Wore a shirt that said protect trans kids that was a way to pack up punch and deliver a message Chee, and as far as I'm concerned that should that's what late night host should wear stuff like that people. But why not is it just was so sh. Refreshingly cool that I it did sort of make you wonder like if I don't people just do this. What a great way to like show off a political message, especially like shirts or like a great way to say something without actually saying, and he was smart in that like, yeah. Who who's going to argue with protecting children? Nobody come for me. So Don Cheadle said come from exactly. I want to switch over to. What was the band? The ever clear. Very clear is ever current sublime in amount in mash up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So do you know I was trying to figure out how to to to their songs together. And since impo-, I can't even think it would ever clear song Batty wants me that smash Mel ever clear. Hey, now, you're an all smashmouth. That's actually the same song. Just different parts of it. Ever Clare early in the morning. I'm rising to feet who's that? Sublime light me best cigarettes ever. Hello mother. Hello father. That's ever. I am smoking. They do have a Hello mother. Kind of song. I thought I don't think the father of mine one. Oh, yeah. Father of mine. I ain't got no father of mine. This'll Maria to the tune of me. Okay. You. I hate them all to their awful if that guy hadn't died, they'd be playing county. Someone died from sublime. Oh. Oh. Football player. He didn't have a crystal ball. He couldn't tell it. He didn't have it, Michael. Sam recently spoke at an event in New Mexico. I believe and it was the first that we've heard from him in a while. And he was he was pretty candid about his struggle in the NFL and how he felt a little bit. Once he got in that. Yes, he made history for those of you who don't remember in two thousand fourteen he made history as the first openly gay athlete to be drafted by an NFL team. And he was a huge watershed groundbreaking moment. His career, unfortunately, it was very brief as a professional NFL pretty early, right? Twenty fifteen so eight months, he technically quiz. Citing mental health issues, but he did a lot of work, I guess on himself, and and has said that he's now overcome those mental health. I if you issues, but that most of the result from that had to do with forgiveness of other people including himself for letting it way on him so much including for family members. Who do not accept him have never accepted him who heard him in the past and still hurt him? Or who may be hurt him in the past any wasn't full circle, but that himself so and also, of course, the NFL themselves when he candid about specifics where he was just like these in general are like people who've wrong being mostly talked to general terms. He got a little more specific when it came to the to the NFL, again, the NFL has not had an out active gay player on any of their teams since Michael Sam they've only come out retire. Exactly. Ed. So it would be a huge moment in a sport. That could frankly use some great PR because I think everyone is basically everyone now any good parent should. Not that their children, enter the sports because I agree the lasting effects of it are and again, it's not even immediate the these people do not get any insurance that lasts them their entire lives. And they need it. Once they retire. They needed their entire lives because all of these brain injuries can not become symptomatic until decades later, it's horrible. They used their bodies discarded. That's right. Not to mention the way that they have the only is turned its back on people. Like, Colin Kaepernick, they could they could stand to do a good thing or cheerleader situation. Colin kaepernick. The factor concussion. They don't pay taxes, they don't pay their employees correctly. So. Sam said in the speech at the university of New Mexico that the NFL gave gave him a raw deal. He said it was tough to forgive them. I love football football gave me an education and gave me the opportunity. I so desperately needed at the time. I really am grateful for the sport. This is what drives me crazy not about what he said. But also, this is football and professional sports are a major come up for a lot of apple. And then they don't get protected and it's wrong. But it's wrong to have talent like that. And the idea that this is going to get me out of a situation oftentimes poverty oftentimes. And then you're not being taken care of it's it's actually unconscionable. So Michael Sam came out to his college teammates before his senior year at the university of Missouri that same year he won the title of SEC defensive player of the year, which was in two thousand thirteen which is a huge deal means he's a fucking talent. A huge talent southeastern conference defensive player is. Is where do you think that is southeast? Yeah. We're what stay like. Okay. He had expected at the time to be drafted in the second round, which is very high up. And how do I know how draft works? I'll tell you when Shane ki-ho a Gina ki-ho son of the real housewives of Orange County was drafted for baseball. It took like the thirtieth draft for his name to be called. And his dad was so disappointed. His that was a true peace of shet- and talented baseball player. He was good. He was good. Was he the best was he like, no Babe Ruth or whatever he was honestly earned. I have to be honest with you right now. He was no Babe Ruth. He was no Babe Ruth front who'd Babe Ruth. What team be he play for? Fuck. Yeah. Bay. What my babe babe my pain, and what's any Djinnit ge- ge- ge- ge-? Jeff Jackson Jackson Mississippi. I think he played for the for the show watch. Fuck you play for the Bochum bread trucks for the sharks. They use a jet the jet. He's a jet. He wasn't. He was a jet Bobo west side story. God who do I I liked the sharks better? But I like the song when you're a jet better. Yes. A hookah be sharks. Happy around song with the name in it. I mean, granted they got America. Which might be the best song. They music. Oh, that's what I was thinking officer cookies the jets. Go on. Okay. But the jets is a real team in the sharks isn't correct. Why aren't the sharks any kind of Florida do sharks? Yeah. What's it? Why does it Florida do sharks? I mean, I know I'm Minneapolis wouldn't but why not floor. It seems like the shirks would be a great mascot is it because too many people get eaten by sharks there. Yeah. They have a negative reputation assaulted jet s high Ritz. Yeah, the buck. The Broncos Broncos kick you right? A fucking fake forty Niners. Excuse me. Can you name one person in California who wants to be fifty? It turns out that Michael Sam. Did you just keep full of people who are it? Yeah. My he expected to be drafted at the second round. After all these accolades, and after a very successful college career, he wasn't drafted to the St Louis Rams until the seventh round which was one of the last picks that year that made no God damn sense. And even I know that according to the Albuquerque journal albacore kill Alba Kuku Albuquerque journal, Michael Sam said that he did regret coming out before the draft because it he he can't prove it. But at I'm here to say it hurt his career chances. It absolutely did. He said, I think if I never would have come out never would have said those words out to the public. I would still be currently in the NFL. I believe it do you think his do you think coming out though, somehow saved him from a life of like, it's a hard thing. It's like, so he might not know that. Yeah. It's hard to say, what's he doing? How's he making money? I don't know. He's not doing the thing. He loves I know for a while he was playing for Canadian football team. But I don't think he has any longer. Where are the why are why is everyone in the NFL so goddamn afraid to band together, and and speak out against this stuff? I guess money money. I guess they don't also just jeopardizing their Calero opportunity. But if you all if sixty percent of the seventy percent a lot of people did so many of those athletes took knees. And I don't know what the hell, I don't know. I don't Roger Goodell guys. I'm saying things, I don't know more like Roger bad L O. So also, I think probably in his estimate what maybe didn't help that. He thought his of inconsequential at the time. I don't know if any remembers this. But there was a camera on Michael sand. Because everyone knew he was going to be drafted. Everyone was surprised that came so late even though they sort of glossed over that. But when he got the news that he was drafted. He kissed the one person who had been completely supportive of him. And that was his boyfriend, and he did it right on camera and ESPN arid, and it was a big deal. It made headlines everywhere that was the big headline. And he said, well who the hell was I supposed to kiss which? Yeah. Agreed. That someone I don't know your family situation. It's highly. But you've insinuated that maybe they haven't been there for you. Well, and also, let's not underestimate the power of of kids young kids playing football who are gay seeing that on TV completely and not to mention the fucking bigoted straight Bros. Who were seeing that on TV and it being inconsequential, a rocket great or maybe a rock their world for a minute. Good. So Michael Sam briefly played for the Saint Louis Rams briefly played for the Dallas Cowboys then was in the Canadian Football League playing for the Montreal Alouette s- Lewis. Away. One more time. Please. Right. According to the Albuquerque Kirke journal, I keep saying that I'm not saying it anymore. Alba cuckoo. It's so easy. Fine. He was called negative names by players on the Rams. He also revealed. No what negative name he was called. You're a bad player. Yeah. Yeah. I like your shoes. What do you drink decaf? He also revealed the Fidel calbos coach Jason Garrett only spoke to him twice when he joined the team and the one of the two times that he'd spoke to him was to let them know. He was cut. He said that he'd liked his ramp. Rams coach a little better. Even though the team mates weren't as weren't very friendly. I think it was really touching here. And what we spoke about earlier was Nadia monta who is a student at university of New Mexico where he was speaking who identifies as lesbian asked Michael Sam. When did you start accepting yourself? He said that it really didn't have much to do with the NFL. It was after a relationship ended because he was ashamed of being gay. That's why their relationship ended. And he's that I'm not gonna miss out on love again. Which is a big deal. I don't know that sort of heartbreak. I don't know this sort of. I know the kind of heartbreak of your family not accepting you, I know that heartbreak. I don't know the the the double whammy of not having your family, accept you. And also not doing what you love. I'm very very lucky in that. Like, I love doing this show. I love doing the acting stuff. I do everything I do even though. Yeah. Sometimes it's annoying. I'm very lucky. I can't imagine having all of that taken away for me. And also not having a family. That's a that's a lot to deal with even because I think even when people Michael Sam is changing lives, whether but I don't know how it affects him and he needs to have a speaking agent title. Holy die happening. If you are in entertainment, and you're writing a football story, or you're writing a TV about football, or etc. Etc. Etc. They hire consultants from the NFL all the fucking tights. Right. If you want to Pat yourself on the fucking back for being a liberal Californian in the entertainment industry, you better. Call Michael Sam up and be like bitch. I got a job for you. That's right. Also I wanted to. Oh, sorry. That's why wouldn't just list them other teams that have animals that are I think is equally as dangerous as sharks, okay exist. Obey the Carolina Panthers. The Panthers will rip your fucking throat out there. But the very sexy the Atlanta Falcons, they'll just they'll take your eyeballs out everything. Yeah. Vikings. Airs? Eagles. You're right. Giants giant. That's terrified you after. You've put taking the beans. You're right. Why no sharks where are agw ours Steeler? What's a Steeler Steeler? Like fuck you Bengals ravens. Everyone knows ravens are just filled with lice plague. Maybe I'm thinking of pigeons. Well, the birds are birds are. Yeah. Yeah. And like catalysts, others others. Don't make sense lines are harbingers of death. Yeah. Where is this shark shark is a beautiful animal and without the shark. Well, there's the same. They could swim backwards. Brian, always San Jose, Sharks can exist. I've never said that listening to San Jose Sharks. What are they hockey? Yes. He said, no. In water that doesn't make sense. It's not the same. It's a good there. They've moved past being under the water. All right. Well, for now, it's acceptable. So would they do other fish things? I'm guppy. I'm a I'm a river snake is that what how hockey does is river snake? Ria de is. That's why I don't because I've gotten riverside. That's why you don't sue him in Texas lakes. No, there's fucking snakes. It's really any natural body of water because every time you'd be a tiny child trying to enjoy your childhood you dip your fucking finger or leg in the water. And then your mom comes and snatches you way, because there's snakes it'll eat you alive makes a newts and everything hotel. Yeah. And also moccasins. Yeah. What's that place in Austin where they've taken the river and made it into a little schlitterbahn, and it's not us in. How dare you know, something Barton spring Ovar? So filled with slime say really it is. But the pool that they've made from it is not almost drowned in that once well because it's slippery is fuck get is Sabrina. It's freezing. Yeah. They made it pool out of it is it heated. Can I go breeze? It's freezing. Yeah. I guess mindell. Yes. An N D E A. What you X? Oh, you're you're Cajun. I don't know. What I am. I did twenty may that. What do you think? That's what I think. Where do you think I think you're from the mid west or some for some reason tip it? Oh, Louisiana, so obvious. Where do you think makes it easier than ever to launch your patient project with you're looking to start a new business? Showcase your work published content sell products and more squarespace is the tool for you. What's my tool of choice bottle bought a what does it? Oh, you just can use models as a weapon, or what are you? Okay. Like you break it off. And then like you I would never do that. I just use baby bottles whenever I need to like hang a picture it. So you nail it in with a full full baby full of formula. Yeah. Have you ever seen? I feel like, you know, about having old dolls the baby dolls that look realistic. And then what Angela? So you do the same trick where you take fabric softener that looks like milk and put it in a baby bottle to that. She can pretend that she's wars. Yeah. When I rock her to sleep every night squarespace empowers Manjula. Yeah. Squarespace powers millions. And then I have Donald and is he aboard baby. Okay. Not a duck. No. Although it's funny. I'd tell him he's a duck just to play a prank, but he's a real doll. Anyway. So it doesn't really take it. And they don't trust funny to make you make yourself laugh. Squarespace powers. Millions of people from designers to lawyers artists to gamers, even restaurants jams to turn great ideas into something real optimized for mobile right out of the box. Nothing to Patrick upgrade? Twenty four seven award winning customer support had to squarespace dot com slash shape for free trial. And when you're reading along the offer code shade to save ten percent off your first coaches simple about art Domon. Squarespace dot com slash Shane offer. We're gonna be in Texas. We're gonna be a. Austin time radio. That's right. We're going to be awesome tonight at Imos. We're going to be in Dallas at sons of Hermann hall tomorrow night. We're going to be a white oak music hall in Houston on Saturday night throwing dot com slash tour. Get those tickets if for some reason, they're all flying just show up at the venue, and we'll be there, and he'll be there. Paulina IRA on and says hackles the clown a hack owes. She's never listened this podcast. I beg of you. Go to episode three seventy eight at forty six seventeen. There's a time coat and listen to Aaron Brian riff on hackles the clown. It may be the funniest unscripted two minutes. I've ever heard o- lily l h has really validating conversations when I was in middle school. I went to a Wednesday night youth bible study at Christ Presbyterian church. I ended up singing songs I didn't like what people who didn't like me one nine asked the church's leader what their stance was on gay marriage. I was born in something one of the truth. And they said they were taken aback and said the churches again. I it. Yeah. So there you go. Love love. Love says, Debbie six twenty. Oh my God. My favorite podcasts. Can't wait for every week Brian and Erin provide great comedic insight to our eft up world. I also want to say that very soon we're going to be having Dan savage is going to be on deeper shade in the coming weeks. And he he has some really interesting insight in on religion. And and sexually. Anyway, do you have any recommendations for this great nation throwing shade in Texas? Hello, we'll have our proud conduct t shirts will have a boot that you can write questions in. And we'll do a Cuban with the audience. There's a dance number. There's a dance number guys. This is the tail end of it. We saved the best for the biggest. We still be signing. Plastic shoelaces. If people bring them of up if you've ever silicon shoelaces. We'll absolutely I'm doing it like old rice necklaces. So I'm doing very small it to bring a monocle airy tiny, I have a recommendation for this great nation part of my Cui out your plastics, hashtag. Okay. I as you know, I go to the farmers market. I also go to the regular market. I buy food. You didn't know that about me? I have stopped using plastic bags for all the shit at the grocery store that you can actually take home without a plastic bag like LUSA rubella. I'll never forget when I made love to someone and it felt just like LUSA rubella. So get yourself some organic cotton net produce bags stat, you're going to feel good. You're gonna feel arrogant. You're going to feel great about yourself. Just like Brian villes every morning when he sees it as dick as it. Cut up. I'm moving its strength because of that. Yes. I'm hoping to find a new place where the headphone cut up my day. No, I I'm a proud Kandal owner officially all happens very excited and Bryan had a few Lisa read. Former guest of the show me with all of it. It's see anything is possible. Anything is possible. CEO's CFCS's. You love SIA. I love cheap. Thrills. Do you know see is from a place called Adelaide Australia? And I guess she hates it so much that when she did a tour for Austrailia, she skipped it. I know someone always to ask sometimes get Twitter things being like when are you guys gonna make an Passos stop guys? I love Paso. I think it's a beautiful city. I think that the way you stood up to win Trump visited was fabulous. And I thought that was fabulous. It's a beautiful city. It's a safe city. Trump spewed lies about it. There was just too much damage done to this sweet little boy with pleaded pants, and I don't know that I could ever do a show there. I don't blame me. I'm just saying, and it has nothing to do with the wonderful city at as it has to do with me. It always has to do with me. It's not you. It's them. Sure.

sharks NFL Michael Sam Brian villes football Houston Dallas Mary Poppins squarespace Austin Shane ki-ho Instagram Tony Aaron St Louis Rams Imos Austrailia jets America Mr Dick Jeff Bezos
Craaaazy Creeeepy Cults

True Consequences

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Craaaazy Creeeepy Cults

"True Crime Lab Xo from J Andrew Boy About True Crime. Join us as we cover. Topics like notable and unknown crimes. Serial killers costs. White-collar crimes the cult aliens. The hamburglar killer clowns from outer space heaters the money on the J. J. Dude with deep dives into stories narratives research. We hope you learn something new about even the most discussed cases. We never make fun of the victim or the victim's families but we sure as heck make fun of the criminals because they deserve it. We'll be covering topics each week so you always have something fresh to listen to. We can be found on apple podcasts. Spotify speaker stitcher and everywhere else yet get just stories as we traverse the crime leading world. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review to let us know what you think about our show so entered the true crime lab with true friends talking about true crime screaming This is true consequences true crime and mystery podcast stories based in New Mexico and the American desert southwest and like to give a huge shout out to my latest patriots subscribers. Thank you so much cat and Christopher for your support it means the world to me. If you enjoy listening to this show please. Rate Subscribe and review on your favorite podcasts. Are True consequences is fully listener supported to support this show go to patron dot com slash true consequences to keep up with all my updates. You can follow me on facebook and Instagram at you. Consequences pod and on twitter at true cons pod. The following episode discusses themes which may be difficult for some listeners. It deals with issues of religious abuse child abuse neglect and child sexual abuse listener. Discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is a victim of sexual assault. Please call the national sexual assault hotline at one. Eight hundred six five six four six seven three to report child abuse or suspected child abuse. Please call one eight five five three three three safe or dial pound. Saf e from a mobile device. That's pound safe from your mobile device for as long as I can remember. I've always been interested in weird things I liked books about unexplained phenomena. Ufo'S GHOSTS WEIRD STUFF. One of the topics that always interested me was the topic of cults growing up in the eighties and nineties. Colts were all over the media. I remember hearing about Jim Jones. The Rajni she's and yes even the branch Davidians. I watched the raid on the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco in horror and from the safety of my living room. What drives people to follow these charismatic leaders? Why did they follow them? Through some pretty insane ideas including mass suicide and abuse. What makes people susceptible to this type of control? This episode will not answer those questions unfortunately but it will look at the role of certain colts in the beautiful state of New Mexico. Some of things that I love the most about New Mexico. Make It ripe for this type of activity. New Mexico's fifth largest state in terms of square miles with a total area of one hundred. Twenty one thousand five hundred ninety square miles. That's huge New Mexico's also one of the lowest populated states in the US with a population of about two point. One million most of those people live in the Albuquerque Metro area. The rest of the state is pretty sparsely populated. This lead lots of Open Land. Where sinister cult could set up their operation. The two cases that we cover in today's show are just an example of two colts that either have operated or are still operating in New Mexico. This is not meant to be exhaustive. Look at all colts in our state. Because that would be a very long episode. Today I am joined again by my friend Lydia and we are going to be discussing New Mexico based colts. I am Eric Carter. Lon Dean and this is true consequences so highly. You Know Eric. Thank you for having me today. Yeah you're welcome. Hey I wanted to say thank you for connecting me with Aetna and really just trying to help me with Jacob's case. It means a lot to me. I wanted to do this publicly on the show because you just a really good friend and I want to say thank you. That's very sweet and I'm here to continue to help. Our fight isn't over. We're still going to work on it. Yeah next step is the attorney general. I think right. Yep so today I invited you over to talk about crazy. Creepy cold Insert sound effect. Creepy spooky sounds creepy and should do that. That'd be cool. Yeah so new. Mexico is pretty ripe for this kind of activity. Yes my story thunder here a little bit. I it's interesting. How many cults there are here that have been here and how many co leaders have been here. There's so many like we could probably do like three or four episodes about colts. Yeah just a New Mexico. Yeah I mean the definitely New Mexico is Kinda prime territory if you think about it. We have a vast amount of open spaces. And there's not that many people that live here so it's very easy to go under the radar here New Mexico fifth-largest date by landmass but only two million people live here one million live in Albuquerque in the metro. That's a lot of people that are spread out very far and we're not marketing to colts. We'd just want people to understand the new marketing campaign. Mexico Tourism Board colts come on down instead of shop here and I think part of the theme of what you see with cult leaders is. They don't like to be called Colts. They like to you know they prefer the term sect or like other terms like that so even though we call them crazy creepy colts. They probably would be offended by that. I mean Empha- shoo. I'm so glad you're here. You're like you're going to be very prominent and season two. I think you're going to be at least four or five episodes maybe more. Yeah I mean I mean. Do my best. You're basically a co host at this point. I'm just basic. That's the it well so I'm going to go ahead and go first. Fire that and I'm going to talk about the Lord Our Righteousness Church and I don't know if you've ever heard of them but they are pretty crazy. Pretty Creepy Pretty Coltie. Say It in the voice. Crew Cre- big. Everyone hates me now. I lost all my listeners. Delete this block unfriendly so the setting for this story so takes place in Clayton New Mexico. Have you ever heard of Clayton? I HAVE. It's a teeny tiny town in the northeast corner of our state and it is the county seat for Union County which both of us thought that had something to do with the billy the kid but I haven't been able to find any evidence of that is true. So maybe we're both wrong. Lincoln County Definitely Fort. Sumner has a museum for ability to get. That's right so it's a county seat for Union County. The town sits in an area of Mexico known as the Eastern plains. And it's the part of the state that becomes more flat starts to resemble West Texas or Oklahoma. Clayton is only ten miles from the Texas border and eleven miles from the Oklahoma border. City of Clayton has a population of about twenty seven to twenty nine hundred people just depending on what website? You're looking at and in the outskirts of the small town. One of the most infamous cult in New Mexico and the US based their compound they called it strong city strong city. The cut would be known far and wide because of the deeds of its leader. Wayne Curtis bent or as his followers know him Michael Professor. Why do you all the more devious people have three names? Gone Casey Eric Carter. London says nervously. John Wayne Gang. See who else do we have? We have who assassinated JFK? What was Lee Lee Harvey Oswald? Yeah there's a lot of three neighbors assassinated Lincoln. What was his name? Let's let's pretend like we know things we don't know anything. Wayne Curtis bent or Michael was born may eighteenth nineteen forty one. I couldn't find where he was born. I looked everywhere. I don't know but he did have a troubled childhood. Most co-leaders do he lost his mother at a very young age and according to him he was kidnapped and molested as an adolescent. He says by a homosexual. So I know Lydia that you're an alum H. C. Which is licensed mental health counselor? So can you talk a little bit about 'cause I was thinking that the idea of sexual abuse can sometimes be more about power and control and less about attraction but I think you said there are some of that attraction involved in it as well. Yeah and so that we can only really go off rope reports of people who self identify as essentially child molesters and they have shared that although they themselves may have been abused in the past as adults they do say typically that they have sexual attraction to children But you know you talked about him. Identifying his abuser as a homosexual and I just want to highlight. That is often used as a scapegoat. homosexuality is often uses scapegoat for those who perpetrate against children as a waitress somehow explained the abuse and those are two separate things and that the DSM used to identify homosexuality as a mental health disorder But obviously we know now. That is completely not true. Those two things are not the same thing You can be gay and you don't molest children like you a lot of people you know so I just WanNa be give very clear that. That is a common scapegoat of people who already hold anti lgbtq sentiments. Is that they try to say that. They are somehow more deviant or more likely to be deviant in some of the things that you see with leaders and this is just me being an armchair expert. Not really somebody who's been educated formerly in mental health but you do see a lot of narcissism in in those types of people in in abusers. In general I think you see some of that narcissistic personality disorder. This is just me saying things that I know nothing about but I figure absolutely right I would I would be. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them if they were to actually submit to a diagnostic bio psychosocial exam whether or not. They are diagnosed with narcissistic personality and so a personality. Disorder is very different than say for example. Like your your depression right. Like it's it's it's viewed very differently in very difficult to treat. I will so I wouldn't be surprised if they had narcissistic tendencies or oppositional defiant tendencies where they distrust authority figures. And maybe like you said it goes back to their past of where authority figures failed them when younger children. Yeah absolutely so. That was a nice little rabbit hole. Things going down that with me going to carry on with his story and adulthood. He became a seventh day adventist preacher and was divorced twice and in the late eighties. He denounced his faith and decided to forge his own path. He said I began to hate life and see most human beings as disgusting in their lusts and their behaviors. He brought several members of his church with him. And they settled in Idaho for nearly a decade. It was then that Michael moved the entire organization to just outside of Clinton New Mexico and again like I said they name their compound strong city. It was just a bunch of trailers on a dirt road. Let's be honest about that per second. It's not really a city. Well I can't judge we're from Sikora that just you just describes the core. That's my neighborhood. That basically that's where I live now. According to Michael he had a spiritual experience in June of two thousand he states. He was sitting in his chair in his living room and he claimed that God said to him that he was the Messiah. Truly right he says and I quote I am the embodiment of God. I am divinity and humanity combined. God saw that trailer and was like this is my gags the dude. I want this guy one sales right. I mean that's how it works. Yes shortly after this. This is where it gets kind of weird to women in the Colt came up to him of their own will allegedly and claim that they both wanted to be with Michael Sexually and allegedly. Not just that. But God had commanded them to do so guys like you better sleep with this guy or else why God sound like an office manager. Michael Scott. No He's a I don't know which they're talking to you but that just seems a little out there so get this. Michael then approached their husbands. Yes they were married already and convinced the husbands that it was God's will that these two married women be with him. Now that takes some Kahane's he. He took those levels was like y'all hey I can't do anything about it. This is what God said. God told me so. So you'll be mad. He actually did say this. If you're mad pick it up with God. Put it in the suggestion box. Just say a little prayer to God. How mad you are GonNa go bang your wife. Sandy thought a and there's the rest of my listeners leaving now so they're so happy. Shortly after. This Michael dissolved all marriages within the cult members. Were expected to change their names and give everything that they owned to the cult naturally like just through. Your marriages are dissolved. They no longer exists. This is my legal authority. Is My wife now. Yep God said peace our home you want to take it up a god. Yeah Jar. Call each call toby. Toby called Kelly and customer service. People in this is Kelly people who don't watch the office don't know what we're talking about. And they hate us even more. That's okay so children were not allowed to attend school. As Michael said it would be a bad influence on them. Aside from cult indoctrination there was no formal education for kids in this cult. Nail book learning none at all. Did they go visit the giant life-size arc though I couldn't find anything back but maybe yeah. It was really sad because one of the boys in one of the documentaries. I watched he was making all these models of the planets out of clay and they were really good. They look pretty close to what the planets actually look like. The interviewer asked the KITTIES. Like so if the world's going to end which. I haven't gotten to that part yet but basically they believe the world's GonNa end then. Isn't it kind of pointless to spend time learning about the planets and you could actually watch the kids brain breaking in of your eyes. It was really sad. He was like blinking a few times and he just sat there quietly. And he's like yeah. I guess it is Kinda pointless and then you can just see like all his hopes injury. Shadows really sat over. It was horrible. Felt really bad for this kid and I don't learn about science scientists the devil. I'll continue to tell you. How sad historians? It's really a horrible story for that boy. So eventually Michael would take several wives from his followers including the wife of his own. Son De Right. And in one heartbreaking moment you can see in the documentary. I watch which is going to be in the notes that Jeff seems completely heartbroken as Michael's describing the interviewer about consummating with his wife several times. Wow and the worst part about this too is jeff is still like T- Michael. This guy's God I love him. It doesn't matter. I'm mad at God because he told my dad to sleep with my wife but like I still love my dad and I still support him and I'm still like teen Michael. Yeah I think that brings a good point where we automatically assume that it's only women of a sack or something of a cult who have been identified as potentially being the victims of this abuse. But clearly you're pointing out. How the men to have become brainwashed and they themselves are exhibiting that survivor mentality of I. I'm angry but I don't know if I can be angry at the person who's actually abusing me so I'm going to point towards Scott Right. Yeah so sad and one of the things that was really creepy about. This documentary was one of the girls in the story. Talks about how people think. She's brainwashed and she makes jokes she starts laughing. She's like yeah. I guess I am brainwashed. Brainwash my brain of all my impure thoughts. Did she have like cackling hysterical laughter? Nova she had like crazy. Is Super Crazy Grin? Yeah okay no they all had that kind of watch my brain I mean talk about. I mean that is like you know like a literal interpretation of something that he's trying to minimize. That's very sad. It is okay so several people left Colt at this time and some parents even left without their children. The children were left in the care of Michael and the Colt. And this would eventually prove to be problematic for Michael as well as the Lord Our Righteousness Church does anybody give me. Highlight about like why. They were why they had to leave the children. Was it kind of like there? It's just easier to get out. We're going to try to get for help or so from what I read in what I saw. It seemed like the kids did not want to leave. They were all basically saying we're going to stay and the parents wanted to leave so they just. They decided to leave them there. Says I can't imagine making that decision. According to the cult Michael had made a couple of prophecies one. They said that he saw and told of the attacks on nine. Eleven prior to them occurring they also claim the predicted. The end of the world to be on October thirty first. Two Thousand Seven. So thirteen years ago this would now classify the cult- officially as a doomsday cult. And as you can imagine. This escalated. The crazy he even said at one point people who don't receive me. We'll be lost and destroyed. People who accept my testimony will be saved. There's a scene documentary. The crews filming while a mom shows up with the sheriff at the compound to pick up her daughter. Who REFUSED TO LEAVE? Do they say how old she is? I think she was like fourteen or thirteen. Yeah so this is where it starts to get pretty intense. So apparently Michael had given a sermon about being quote naked with God and so all right there is an actual scripture in the Bible that talks about being naked with God and all the interpretations that I've heard about Growing UP IN THE CHURCH. And my dad being a pastor and all that is it's really about being vulnerable and about being honest with God. It's not really a physical nakedness. But you can imagine how people can manipulate the ticket out of context interpreted into different way and so benefit starts with one girl. One teenage girl approaches Michael in his in his trailer and says. I've been thinking about your sermon and I want to lay naked physically naked with you. Like she's describing it. She says he sat there quietly for a moment considered it and then he said okay. So she's like fifteen picks all closed lays with him skin-to-skin from this more and more of the girls start to do this with a according to Michael. He just held them. He didn't do anything sexual with them. But in one interview he talks about treating the girls with the same respect as an md. He says quote people are naked with their md all the time and they're md even six fingers into women's sexual parts and quote insert vomit here. Yep that's discussing. That's a stretch bro. Like you are comparing yourself to a medical doctor and that. How is it that relationships somehow more nefarious than what you were doing with these little girls yet? No thank you. Well I think it says a lot about his his mental state that he equates that was sexuality you know in his mind. I mean I don't know that he does but it seems like that's what he's doing and yeah it seems. I'm healing them gentle healing touch. It's not an old ass dude embracing a naked teenager teenager. What a creep. Right one of the crazy things he did was. He announced that he would require seven virgins to conduct a ceremony. That would help us in the end of days. Why are virgins always necessary for like these events? I don't know like you get Virgins in heaven? You need virtues. To bring out the end of the world virginal all canine. Oh Yeah I think that God really likes virgins. Has Anybody asked him? Let's talk to toby. Toby on the phone right now. You guys okay. So after this. After this. The rest of the underage girls proceeded to light naked with him including the girl who was picked up by her parents. And the sheriff. So she'd done this before. They picked her up which is why they picked her up. One girl even asked Michael to be naked with her and several of the grows claim that they felt that God wanted them to have sex with Michael. And I really the I just. I'm sorry to interject here. I really think it's important that even though the way it's reported is that it's the girls kind of initiating this contact. I really want listeners to keep in mind that they have been brainwashed. They have been manipulated. These are not ideas that they came up with out of the blue. This after years of being years exposed to this guy years of grooming really right is what it is. One girl claimed that she would kill herself if he didn't have sex with her again. To your point I'm GonNa stop say something here that I want everybody to know because it's something that drives me nuts. Minors cannot have sex with adults. It is not sex. It is abusive it is rape molestation. It's all of those things but never consensual sex between two people because a minor can never give consent for that type of behavior with an adult. It's not possible. Yeah and so. Put this in context like these are thirteen. Fourteen year old girls. Who are saying that they they need to do this with the sixty year old man or a man in his sixties again like. I said they are not. They're not giving consent. This isn't a real consensual relationship. This is abuse. This is rape brochure and this horrifying and disgusting so even though the girls were pleading with Michael according to him. He said that he did not because he felt God was testing him and that he was not instructed by God to abuse the girls. Although I don't know that I believe him I mean it's really interesting. That he that his defenses. They were begging for it. And I'm the one that was like no. This isn't cool like God hasn't told me to do that. But let's just wait to see what he totally lameck with me. Because that's my yeah right like he tried to find the best case scenario to highlight rather than what potentially could actually happen so around. This time John Sayer. A former member of the cult left the Colt with his wife and two daughters. He became very concerned when he heard Michael talking about sleeping with the seven virgins from the ceremony. So again this contradicts. What Michael saying because he's talking openly to the cult members about actually sleeping with these girls. He told bent or Michael that it was wrong and they left the compound as a family. Another strange thing that happened in the documentary I watched was boy talked about earlier. He was the only boy the loan boy living in strong city. His parents had left without him and he was living alone hut so it seemed like the girls were all involved in the community and they were all like walking around together with everybody with the adults and everything but this boy was kind of isolated off by himself off to the side. It was really weird. Yeah I think about like the FDA a-list movements on those branches off of the Mormon sex and stuff where the teenage boys are isolated from the teenage girls. Among from what I've read. Is that because the leaders believe those teenage boys are a threat to their potential budding relationships with their soon to be wives. So I'm wondering if that was like the same dynamic again. This is just hypothetical I don't know could be. I mean it was very striking to me. That he was just left alone by himself right like he was the same age as my son. Right. Just go figure it out. Did peace out okay. So it was almost like the boys were not wanted or needed in strong city and eventually his mom came for him and his sister and Michael told them not to resist as they will be reunited once again when the days came he also encouraged the teens to have their mom sign over custody to the grandparents who were still in the cult. The boy sister went on a hunger strike at her mom's home nearly starved herself to death in protest which eventually resulted in the mom caving in and signing over custody. Oh my God so just sending her back to this disgusting I but what I mean. I can't even imagine what I would do. I don't I don't WanNA blame her because I don't know what kind of situation or what kind of pressure. She was under but be really hard for me to do that. Yeah I mean she's like well you're either killing yourself or send this you back to this. This perpetrator right. What do you do I? I don't even know I wouldn't have an answer. It says a lot to the girls state of mind to you know in her complete being completely brainwashed into this ideology that this is what she needs in her life she rather die and instead of being kept away from him weird so Michael was convinced again. The after midnight on October thirty first. Oh seven there would be a huge change of body as he described it. He said that his physical body would cease to exist and he would become a different body and so what his followers. I'm so he kind of changed it from the world's going to end to a more metaphysical kind of statement which was strange and you could really interpret that several ways but it seemed like he was being purposely vague so he never specifically said. This is what I'm gonNA turn into an attorney to an angel or an alien fly right a butterfly. I'm still a little bit different. I might have highlights next time. You see me or might not have a beard next time. Yeah you don't know what's up to God and my word different glasses. Yeah might be wearing a blue shirt and if it's different than I've proved the prophecy. You're right Yup. That's kind of a genius. You think about it really smart chilling scene. Journalists are there on the night of the thirty first and there aren't allowed to be on the compound but they're kind of on the road off to the side of it and they watch all these members leave the compound and they're all like screaming and chanting and laughing and hollering and there's like trumpets blaring in the background there there until after midnight and then it's like. Oh just kidding nothing happened the world and then you guys. It's interesting that you bring up like kind of this delirium this delirious behavior that they're exhibiting which sometimes you'll see when people have been you know like praying for forty eight hours non stop with no break no water no food and you become delirious so that's kind of what it sounds like. Yeah and I mean the world didn't then but we will but it but it seems like it is ending right now. Well now because he was only thirteen years off he really wasn't that far. All round it up yeah. His math was a little bit. Maybe he didn't carry the three. Okay yeah I mean he was using abacus right? We all know how difficult an abacus can meet. Maybe he was trying common core math and he didn't know how to do it. I don't know what did you see that meme about it was it was like this parent and a kid and the kids like. I don't get this and the parents I don't either. Unfortunately you go to a really shitty school right now and so. That's like a stab you know homeschooling during cove in Nineteen Daring Cova. Okay so what did happen. Even the world did not end was Michael was charged with child sexual abuse and arrested on. May Sixth of two thousand and eight. He went to trial and in November and was convicted in December of one count of criminal sexual contact with the minor two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. His defense try to stand on the position that there was no sexual contact in other words. They argue that the girl he did not touch the girls on their private parts even though he was nude and they were new together. They even went so far as to kind of demonstrate. His hand was perpendicular between their breasts. When you touch them and not `twixt betwixt and not actually on the breasts which seems like a technicality to me. The bottom line is as creepy. Old Man is naked with these little girls right and it blows my mind. There was only one count of inappropriate contact with a minor when the miners themselves are saying I laid with him. I wanted him to hold me naked. And he did you know again. It's not about their initiating is about what he did because he groomed them to do that he was an authority figure right. God in their mind right right so how do you say no to God? And that's why it just so alarming that the courts only found him guilty of one. Count when you have dozens of instances that himself admitted yeah no he was totally open about it and so we're the girls they were on on camera will. They weren't on camera but you could hear them during the trial and one girl was even like dancer if he touched if you touched her and she said yes but not directly on the breast like L. She was coached. Seems something totally code lingo that you would necessarily here? Yeah like when you were thirteen. Would you ever talk like that? No God so. He was spoken corn lyrics from and Limp Biscuit Liberals Nikki appropriate to talk about right now. He was sentenced to eighteen years in prison. Which was the maximum sentence for the charges at the time and as a result of sentencing and subsequent arrest he went into a hunger strike as a means to kill himself. Oh No don't to start. Just stop he some big. You're having a sandwich to to to kill your own He he said he would not allow himself to be fed by the hand of the beast. Baron Bart I can't help but think of Alyssa Edwards based this only strengthened the resolve of his son and other cult members comparing Michael's ordeal to the ordeals and persecution. Of Jesus. Christ. Keep in mind. This is the son that he had sex with the wife of. Yeah Okay Yeah and they also felt that Michael was betrayed by a disciple of Jesus and falsely accused of a crime. He did not commit though he was over. Sixty so in two thousand eleven. The New Mexico Court of Appeals overturned the convictions against Michael Citing. The fact that the grand jury was not legally assembled in the original case. And we don't know what that means so if any attorneys listening want to chime in and what that is it sounds like a really small technicality to the layperson. Let's call break. Call Edna but if you WANNA weigh in on what that actually means maybe it is something. That's completely serious especially in somebody's due process rights. Okay we give them that but it if if it is a minute detail or minute error. It's very frustrating for the layperson to hear that this guy is conviction is overturned by this small little. Yeah so luckily. The state appealed the ruling to the New Mexico. State Supreme Court and in two thousand twelve. The New Mexico Court of Appeals ruling was overturned and Michael was ordered to complete four more years of his sentence. He was released in Two Thousand Sixteen on parole partially due to the fact that he had been diagnosed with cancer which was threatening to take his hearing. That's all yeah so we only got you only serve eight and a half years of a sentence guessing. The hunger strike. It didn't work out very well. Ended up eating something. Well actually. I didn't include this but they did. The court compelled him to he was court ordered to eat and he was basically force fed and then he then he decided. Oh It's God's will that I should eat again. How convenient sandwiches so good actually got does want me to eat that he wants me to sleep with more of your wives and to eat. Jell food. Yep Yeah actually. He didn't each his. They let his followers bring in their own food. I'M NOT KIDDING. No yeah no yeah. So he's eating affiliate cheese steak sandwiches vegetarian so he's probably eating Tofu. I mean I'm a recovering vegetarian so so today all the websites that were owned by the cult and by Wayne Michael are off line. And there's been little mention of the group in the media since two thousand seventeen. They seem to just kind of fallen off the map so he's probably still alive. The group is probably. I'm just guessing still functioning. They've probably just learned to go deeper under the radar. Yeah that's what I'm assuming. Yeah which I mean if he is a pedophile in child abuser. He's probably not changed either. Maybe he just kind of increased his control and his brainwashing efforts to make sure that the word doesn't get out again. Yeah a lot of the things that I'm I referenced. And I researched with. We'll be in the show notes so if you're interested you can find on consequences dot com for this bar. As well as for Lydia's cult that she's going to cover and yeah so Lydia think it's your turn to talk about your creepy. Thank you so I'm going to be talking about this very unique situation and I'm going to preface this with. This is all based on allegations. I'm saying that because this group is still very active. They still have website. They still have a presence here New Mexico. They are still fighting legal cases and they have very powerful thirties behind them. So I don't want to be slapped with any sort of reliable lawsuit. Her name is Lydia Walberg. She lives at later. Don't you set me up for that? So obviously Eric talked about how New Mexico is sort of kind of prime territory but if you think about the US as a whole like we've obviously had very prominent colts. I would identifies colts or other. People have identified as colts within the United States. So you have heaven's gate. They're known for their mass suicide in their black. Nike's branch Davidians kind of connected to a little bit of what Eric just talked about Eric. How is that connection? Oh because David Koresh was a seventh day adventist and so was Michael. Tra- BESSER THERE. You go boom breasted. But like I'm not going to seventy have been SR prime for generating leaders. Because just that connection with David Koresh and and his group and obviously we know the Disastrous Raid Waco. Obviously the was hung to Jin. Jim Jones the Peoples Temple. The extra started in Indiana also known for our Vice President Pence. Not Saying there's a connection. I'm just pointing that out political bullshit outside K. slogan and obviously the Peoples Temple. Jim Jones led to the massive suicide in Jonestown Guyana. You also know that like a an elected official was assassinated when they try to go an interview. People at Jonestown heard that yes. That's a crazy story totally crazy but anyway back to New Mexico so we could be a good home base for colts. This isn't a recruiting ad. We're just pointing out the obvious. Lots of land. Not Many People. Lots of people living off grid here too common thing. Well I mean what would the would the Hashtag look like from the tourism board like instead of an true. Yeah called as you are cold as you go. Okay okay. Wait Nirvana's going to sue US down newsletter Wahlberg. So I'm going to talk today about a Colt who actually ended up settling here New Mexico near Gallup New Mexico and so this quilt may not be very well known There's still definitely important. And they're still very active and they have a lot of current litigation going on May Not be as well known as the Manson family but they still allegedly carried out some unspeakable crimes and they're known as the aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps so they started around Nineteen eighty-one Nineteen Eighty in Sacramento California and their original name was free. Love Ministries. Well sounds Nice. Yes right sounds innocuous. Safe DOT COM right Woodstock's they created a hierarchy similarly to the military people were identified as generals or colonels and according to the cult education institute the leaders Jim In lead green. They started out as colonels and now they're considered brigadier generals and they are the main leaders of this group now so they taught that Christians may have demons living inside them and so in my research. I had a hard time understanding what the actual teachings were so bear with me. I'm going to summarize what my interpretation was so if I'm wrong I'm wrong. You can comment and edit as you see fit but my understanding is that they taught that there is these demons naturally living inside your average Christian and it was a incumbent upon that that Christian to practice And have a devout faith to keep these demons at bay and whatever bad behaviors came out. That was the demon coming out and essentially humans were considered the food of Satan. So Satan was swooping up all these souls for his for himself And their goal was to eradicate that And that they were God's army they were here to to annihilate anybody who was a threat to their preachings to God. Oh sounds pretty chill. Yep suber show on chill in fact that the southern poverty law center identified them as a hate group because they espouse lot of antisemitic a lot of anti lgbt. Hugh sentiments Again they would say like those are manifestations of ungodly behave your according to the education institute the Second I'm biblical teaching and they called unbearable meaning like they considered other teachers to be biblical but they were in Biblical by Starting what they practice The manifest sons of God The Dominion the Kingdom of now so as a result of this teaching people were committed to aggressive Christian and encouraged to be part of a man child company or the comers so other groups involved with teaching they believe that there is an elite group of people And their job is to overcome the enemies of Christ and so it would manifest in different names so man child company the over. Comers they are. Their job is to overpower and annihilate the enemies of Christ so the name of group aggressive Christianity trading core. Obviously they had this prior name. They lead a mission Throughout Africa different countries in Africa around the nineteen eighties and started to make headlines as early as nineteen eighty-seven because one of their missions led to the malaria death of a follower. He was an American convert. He contracted malaria while building a religious outposts in Uganda And he was he was buried there basically. He was left to die there on the leaders of the group kind of washed their hands of it they left it to the family of the convert and the US government should fake figure out. What happened to him and try to bring his body back to the US. So should he. Yeah they were just like not our problem right. So they're building. This religious outposts that they called it. Which again has kind of militaristic undertones to it. And he contracts malaria. He gets really sick. He dies there his family in the. Us is like bring our son back and they're like it's not our problem so the family then had to coordinate with the US government. I'm not sure if they were actually able to bring his body bag so the coal actually started she move around the United States. They try to hide their names. They try to hide their leaders Because a former member began a lawsuit against them Around the late nineteen eighty s and. She was alleging abuse in this lawsuit. So according to the Sacramento. Bee A thirty nine year old. Sacramento woman sued the Free Love Ministries claiming that the Unorthodox Christian group help quote held her captive for six months. They took away all of her possessions. She alleged turned her family against her. Also she allegedly had to sign over her home. She unknowingly gave up legal custody and she unknowingly agreed to a divorce during what she called her captivity so yes she highlights all these abuses in lawsuit so during that time she alleged that her diet only consisted of one small peanut butter sandwich. That was stale She said that for six months wasn't allowed to bathe. She had no access to hot water She didn't commonly have access to a bathroom. They kept her in a shed. She says I was afraid to walk away. They told me this was my last chance. And if I didn't stick it out at Goad hell she says I was just mentally under control she said. I guess you'd call it brainwashed so eventually. She was granted judgment from the court for her lawsuit. And because of this judgment they continue to try to thwart any sort of identifiers from the federal government. Because they didn't want to be held accountable to this lawsuit that she won. She later shared that she was held in a five by twelve foot. Wouldn't shed with a low ceiling that prevented her from standing up straight. The other women would sometimes have to share the shed ending her. Her marriage was considered a test And that she blindly signed over custody of her children So they continued. The the group continued to try to fly under the radar again to avoid this lawsuit. Because they didn't want to have to actually answer to any of her allegations But they started popping up around Las cruces New Mexico and El Paso Texas which other reports indicate that they were trying to recruit there but neighbors in those in. Those communities were definitely uncomfortable with their presence there. The way that they presented themselves One Gentleman in Las cruces actually defined or described the leader of the cold as being a Manson type. He said when you look into her eyes. He said she was not a safe person. Allegedly well if you look at her pictures. She's really creepy looking her and her husband both are very creepy looking yes. The aesthetics are not pleasant. When they're wearing like full on general regalia yeah like a beret white linen dresses shoulder pads right patches on their arm right if they see some sort of battle so one thing that I was talking to Eric about is you you talk about like current trending staff during this Cova. Did a lot of people are staying home and watching Netflix. And I got sucked into the tiger king. Oh okay well. It's pretty good but one of the women that they interviewed. She was an employee of a large cat. Zoo and Myrtle beach as she describes cult like behavior and it really struck me because I was thinking. It's so easy for people from the outside to maybe say like well. Why would you endure that I? Would you put up with that? Why don't you just walk away? And I think this woman really summed it up pretty perfectly in this documentary tiger king so she was working at this large cat zoo and Myrtle beach and under the under the control and employment of this guy who identified himself as a doctor He is a white guy but he took on the name. Bag Von Anatole. Some SORTA like mystical India. Name on means Lord Right so basically to paraphrase what she said she said sure they tell you you can leave any time. You're not locked up. There aren't any chains keeping you there but there's other invisible countless ties that keep you there and that's what makes it so hard to leave right. Your finances are incorporated into this group. Your psychology is incorporated to this group. Support grew identity. Your identity right. Like typical abuser identity. Tear you down and build you up into what they want and again it goes to the blaming the victim right the idea of. Why don't you just leave? You're the one that's still their right. This is your fault. Yeah you ask for it right so I really think that. She summed that up really perfectly so going back to the aggressive Christianity colts so they were allegedly while their nameless the aggressive Christianity. They don't go by the name. Colt though allegedly So around the year. Two Thousand You. I see why. Fda here New Mexico. After sorry. I'M GONNA go for Children Youth and Families Division. Which is our our office that handles child abuse cases so it'd be similar to CPS in another state or whatever they call it in wherever you are perfect thank you know. No sorry nuts so around two thousand. They attempted to remove children from the compound in Gallup because they received reports of sexual and physical abuse so one thing that I thought was so surprising when I was looking at the research. Is that local law enforcement in that area so local sheriff's local state police. They thought that the report given to see why. Fda came from a woman who they considered to be not trustworthy in. This goes back to what I believe. Eric believes is listen to survivors listened to victims Again it's like a statistical anomaly for there to be a false report. It happens so rarely that. It's almost unquantifiable in terms of statistics. Absolutely so according to the Albuquerque Journal from February two thousand former police officer Darren white interviewed an unidentified woman who claimed in his reports that children in the sect had been sexually abused and were being intentionally burned. And so this interview was the basis of Cya fifties investigation but for local local law enforcement. They thought the allegation was flimsy at best so they said quote. None of these allegations have been confirmed state police Captain Glenn Thomas of Gallup referring to the women's allegations they're taking it from a witness who is shaky he said. What does that mean? I don't know that she I guess what they're saying. She's not trustworthy. 'cause I mean if you're talking about physically shaking maybe she's having PTSD. I think they meant like personality. Wise I think they later highlighted that. They considered her a transient. They said that she had made several other reports. Right that old card. Yeah so white said that he was daring white said. He stood by his story but he didn't want to comment on that news. Article those being published at the time. The woman was identified by authorities as L. Philan- who law enforcement officials said was a member of the group for a short time and was a transient police. Said Fallon had made unfounded allegations in the past and they said quote our department has had one or two cases involving her that turned out to be nothing said Johnny Valdez. Seib Lewis County undersheriff. I think it's the department's opinion that the case would probably have been investigated further before the state attempted to remove the Children Valdez. Said so it's really disappointing to see that. These local officials are kind of creating must barrier like this really serious allegation has come up and they're like hey pump the brakes. Let's just give them the benefit of the Dow basically I understand investigating further but when something as serious as child abuse child sexual abuse being raised. It's kind of an expedited thick and we also know. There's a critical moment of where you legally should be. Authorized to interview children separate from their potential abusers in order to determine if there is any sort of authenticity to those allegations will and I think the state really has a track record of not taking allegations of child abuse. Seriously until it's too late right I you know that's been the theme of of this whole season so far really has been you know the authorities not taking these allegations seriously and I really hope that something will change soon because if it looks like a crazy creepy child-abusing Colt it toxic crazy creepy child-abusing called and it walks like a crazy creepy child-abusing caller probably is wired. So so it's unclear. What happened with this original two thousand? Child Abuse Investigation. I couldn't figure out what the outcome was. But the group POPs up again on the radar around two thousand five when the main leaders the main generals of the group Jim Green And his wife. Deborah apparently got into some sort of scuffle with two other members of the group. And it's alleged that Jim threatened to kill his wife Deborah and that he beat two other members with the cane so his own wife. Yes yeah yes we'll completely stable guy completely stable and so Jim. Green is arrested but according to sergeant with the CBA La County Sheriff's department. There is no evidence of any criminal activity by the aggressive. Christianson and green has always been cooperative with authorities right. So according to the Albuquerque General Green was released. He apologized to the members he allegedly be and everything was Hunky Dory grew. We're good. Yeah we hug it out. So apparently everything was hunky. Dory according to local law enforcement the Albuquerque Journal again highlighted what I perceive as a blatant indifference by law enforcement. They said quote. The group claims to be devoted to the Bible there vegetarian. They model themselves off of the Salvation Army with an aggressive commitment to mission work taking in troubled people who want to change their way of life so basically crazy creepy called right definition. And that's coming from the sheriff's Department Sergeant Harry Hall. Was he a member or not? That I'm aware of so hall told the paper that in the five years of dealing with the Greens and the Christian Group. The only problems the ever had where people attacking them people vandalizing their property. They just love Jesus Yellow. They help they. WanNa make the world a better place. Y'All abduct people who are vulnerable them in their changing lives every day. It's okay y'All essentially. That's crazy that's the back in again. Two thousand five thousand six. So let's fast forward now to two thousand seven right so again. The cult leaders Deborah at her son in law. Peter in two thousand seventeen. They're indicted on child sex abuse charges according to the New York Post so members of the mill so this is again by the New York Post. They say members of the military style. Christian group in New Mexico were arrested on what authorities called horrific crimes against children so Peter Green the aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps Infants Lake. He was arrested in August of twenty seventeen on one hundred counts of criminal sexual penetration of a child. Deborah Green his mother-in-law and her husband James Green where the generals of the sect and Deborah was charged as well and again just reminder that for a long time. The southern poverty law center was identifying them as a hate group. Deborah Green and another member. Stacey Miller were charged with child abuse bribery witness and not reporting a birth So one thing to take note about Stacy Miller who's kind of this this co-conspirator or other women charge is that previously. Her husband had filed a missing persons report. And he said he hadn't seen stacy in years or their children authorities later discovered. Stacey was alive and well so where the majority of her children except for one her son. Enoch who had died at the compound at the age of thirteen of the flu they had just buried his body they never reported to authorities. They never give them access to medical care all because according to Stacy Miller that any sort of intervention from health professionals would circumvent what God's plan yeah so when this when he knocks body had been discovered that was back in two thousand thirteen two thousand fourteen and it wasn't until twenty seventeen Deborah Green. The leader of the group was arrested. So this teenage boys body was uncovered on the compound. But nothing happened at that time. Between when he is body was discovered and twenty seven million. People die from the flu all the time yet. More people die from the food than mine. Didn't know this but apparently the flue big deal it is. It is not too okay. I mean that was really a joke and I mean to be his expense. Because it's really sad that the way he was treated and the way his body was treated. That's horrible so I don't want people to think that I take that lightly. I don't know I think that you're you're highlighting that people do take it lightly right. Yeah me sarcastic. So the sheriff's office started investigating the group they say in twenty thirteen two thousand fourteen because Enoch apparently died of the flu so he was buried on the sect property. No one reported his death and when asked why she didn't get her son. Medical Help Miller said that she wanted to trust God. Investigators also said that a young girl was sexually assaulted and they believe that this young girl was smuggled in from Uganda at the direction of the leader. Deborah it's alleged that Deborah instructed. I believe her daughter to smuggle in this young girl from Uganda forged allegedly forged documents for the baby and that she was essentially kept as a slave for Deborah the the sex leader. Debra allegedly whipped. Her she allowed her son in Law Peter to rape her. She was nine. The girl was then eventually removed from children by C. Y. F. D. and the girl actually was able to testify in court against her alleged abusers. Girl it's horrible. Yeah and A and a judge actually made a specific comment to her saying you you were strong and they will never be able to take that away from you. You'RE GONNA go ahead and live out your life remaining strong. I just feel like this could have all been avoided. The original allegations seriously. I mean think about how many years had passed it. They original report came in two thousand. They're not indicted until twenty seventeen authorities know at minimum eighteen. Children live there as so that led to a kind of a cascade of other charges of failure to report births so again children are being born in the sect. Nobody knows who they are where they born there. Were they born somewhere else? They are not documenting anything. So that led to other charges till finally in September Twenty Eighteen Deborah Green the sect leader censor seventy two years. Whoever she and her husband have filed an appeal requesting a new trial citing what they believe is a huge error in the state's case saying out the the interview done with the young girl from Uganda in two thousand and six quote lawyer. Say A two thousand six psychological assessment of the girl from. Uganda showed no signs of psychologically being traumatized or depressed and denied abuse so in March of twenty twenty which is very recent Stacy Miller yes. Stacey Miller was. She pled guilty and was sentenced to Nine years in prison Connection to the death of her son inaugural. It's horrible. Yeah so that's where we're at right now so right now. The leaders of the sect are actively fighting their their sentence. While some of the lower level people have accepted their sentence. And that's why we are a little bit more cautious with this would segment just because this is an active case. Scher and and they're still operating as of religious quote organization. Exactly their website is live. Oh there's a lot of information about them online and I would never even really known about it until Eric suggested we start looking at this activity in New Mexico cult activity New Mexico. Yeah that was a crazy story. I know and still ongoing. It's going to get crazy about. Yeah so I think it's definitely if we can impart anything on our listener as Listened to survivors. Don't discount what they say as crazy as a story might sound. Hey We know now that stuff happens. People could easily get sucked into a crazy cult. And they're here in New Mexico. Yep so I guess I would just say stay safe New Mexico and don't join any crazy creepy colts even though it's easy to hear New Mexico and even if they were cool uniforms with hats on Washer. Damn hands off your hands and also stay home and don't call from people's faces and don't click on groceries and don't be a jerk okay bye. Thanks again for listening to consequences. Follow us on social media on instagram and facebook at true consequences pod and on twitter at true cons pod true consequences is hosted written and produced by me your host. Eric Carter Line Dean. Thanks for listening and stay safe New Mexico.

Wayne Michael New Mexico Colts Eric Carter Lydia Walberg Albuquerque United States attorney Michael Scott Jim Jones toby Spotify twitter Waco Lord Our Righteousness Church Aetna Davidians Sacramento Mexico facebook
Boris to face court over Brexit claims

PRI's The World

46:57 min | 1 year ago

Boris to face court over Brexit claims

"For the world's podcast and the following message. Come from legalzoom running a small business is a lot of work. It takes time and money and you on all the time and money, you have to go towards growing your business. But what happens when legal hurdles pop up along the way legalzoom is there to help get advice for running, your business from vetted independent attorneys, and tax professionals available in all fifty states. The best part is you won't get charged by the hour since legalzoom is in a law firm. Checkout, legalzoom's business legal plan at legalzoom dot com now and get special savings when you enter the word world at checkout legalzoom where life meets legal legalzoom dot com. Lying liars in the voters who love them today on the world. I'm Marco werman special counsel, Robert Muller, finally breaks his silence on the Russia investigation. And he says that according to Justice department policy his team could not charge a sitting president charging the president with a crime. Was there for not an option? We could consider, we'll hear what that could mean going forward for Trump and for congress, also the front runner to become Britain's next prime minister has admitted to playing the fool in the past, because we haven't maybe that you always gang on the people won't be able to tell the difference. But now bars Johnson is facing a real trial on a charge that he lied about Brexit stories and more today. Here on the world. I'm Marco werman, and you're with the world special counsel, Robert Muller ended more than two years of silence this morning. Now I hope and expect this to be the only time that I will speak to you in this manner. He then highlighted for reporters a few key takeaways, from the massive report. His office wrote and released last month summarizing their investigation of Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election and connections, the President Trump Muller, did not clear up. The did he or didn't he questions that linger around the president on the one hand there was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy. And on the other if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime. We would have said, so molar did take pains to explain the limits to what his office could do a president, president cannot be charged with a federal crime, while he is in office, that is unconstitutional, even if the charges kept under seal and hidden from public view that too is. Prohibited. The constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing, he's referring to a possible impeachment process. That's Kimberly Weli a law professor, who knows quite a bit about presidential investigations. She was associate independent counsel during the whitewater investigation of President Bill Clinton under the constitution. A president can essentially be fired through an indictment and a trial process that occurs, actually in congress and not in the criminal Justice system in a court alternatively in twenty twenty American voters can decide this man does not belong in office, another four years. And then if the statute of limitations have not expired on possible crimes, including obstruction Mr. Trump deprived. Individual could still be charged and indicted and tried criminally in the criminal Justice process. You'll. So what you're saying is, when Trump is no longer a sitting president, perhaps. There would be further legal action at that point, there certainly could be because Mr. Muller was cleared to say that if his team had competence that Mr. Trump did not commit a crime. They would have said. So, so that leaves open a rig real question as to whether he did commit a crime. And I think many former prosecutors have read the full Malo report and determined that based on the information in the second volume on obstruction. There's ample evidence to charge the president with a crime. So if he does not get a second term, potentially the statue of limitations would not have run and the Justice department could charge Donald Trump as a private citizen with the crimes that are potentially underlying Muller. Did you learn anything Kimberly, that was new on the question of obstruction of Justice listening to Muller today? I did not learn anything new what I thought was interesting. Is that he rephrased his report when it comes to obstruction of Justice? He said, we weren't in a position to exonerate, the president today, what he said was if we had confidence that he did not commit a crime, which is much more lay person's language than we would have said, so and he did not repeat the exoneration phrase that was in the report, and that was in a Bill bar, summary initial four page summary of the port, this concept of exoneration. He said, listen, if the we had confidence that he did not commit a crime. We would have said, so, so the big question is did he commit a crime, and he lays out the evidence them in the report and says listen congress go with it look at this at matters? And we'll just have to see how the political process shakes out going forward. You all those comments today from Muller, if felt like he was coming close to talking about impeachment, but not using that specific word, what? Do you think his statements is comments today, we'll do to the discussion on Capitol Hill about impeachment? You know, it sounds like the president's initial tweet in response to Mr. Muller's was pretty subdued for for this president. He said, there's insufficient evidence of a crime. That's very different from, it's a hoax, this, these are all on ethical biased attorneys Muller. Made it very clear. This was, you know, these are good people. They're fair and independent minded. And so I think this bolsters politically, the Democrats position that investigation of this president is legitimate. And as a constitutional law, professor. It has to be that way, whether it's this president or someone else might position is there has to be accountability for any government official do Muller's comments today, provide any new information, or detail to members of congress. That was not in the reductive report that was made public recently. No. But at what I think he does do is reframe the narrative reframe the narrative in a manner. Frankly, that would. Have been appropriate from Mr. bar. The outset Mr. bar said there was a no determination that there was any collusion. Mr. Muller today made clear that there was insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy conspiracy is a legal term collusion is not he also made the argument that obstruction of Justice is a legitimate inquiry. It's critical importance. He said, because it strikes at the efforts to find truth in hold people accountable. So I think Muller's independence mothers, do dishes measured approach his fact in LA approach his a political approach all of that as almost the grandfather, Li sort of thoughtful mentor coming in to the American public and saying, listen. This is the bottom line. And I think he's handing off a baton that sort of clears a little bit of the political noise, and the distortions, frankly, that have been, I think it making their rounds in the American discourse in a way that's really not helpful to the rule of law or towards separation power. We're kinda chatting about the headlines from ten minutes of molar speaking today Kimberly what, what else did out for you? It stood out for me that he opened in really closed. His statement with the question of Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. There were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every American deserves attention in the present tense, not deserved in the past tense, and I think we need as a as nation to focus on the integrity of our electoral process, the congress, and the president should get behind that and put the money into it, that's necessary to ensure that we've got a bullet tight electoral process. We do not right now. And so we could see a redo on twenty twenty of what happened in two thousand sixteen. And I think if you read between the lines, that's what Muller was saying this is really serious and, and that should be the headlines going forward. Not the he said she. Said with respect to Mahler in bar, and I'm hoping that Muller statement today will be how the report itself is framed. Going forward to Burley Weli professor of law at the university of Baltimore school of law. Thanks very much for this, my pleasure. Meanwhile in Britain, a high profile politician, is straight up going to trial for lying bars. Johnson, you might know him acts goofy unruly, Mafa, blonde hair known for his bloopers and his support of Brexit. We could if we had proper free trade deals, and he's a front runner to succeed Theresa May as the UK's next prime minister overtime Johnson has been called a lot of things a sly FOX, the British Trump, the clown prince and, yes, Aligarh. Why did you lie to you? I mean again. I mean we've all on that I never had Johnson himself admits to using artifice sometimes to get what he wants. Well, I said anything that as general tactic in life, it is. It is often useful. To give the slight impression that you are deliberately pretending not to know what is going on, because we honesty, maybe that you what is going on. But people won't be able to tell the difference. So you could say bars Johnson has a long history of bending the truth. And now it could be catching up with him. Stable, try to prosecute Marcus ball as a private citizen, and he's bringing a criminal case against Johnson. That is something you can do in the UK. The charge is misconduct in public office. And my BBC colleague, Dominic cuss Yanni says the case involves a legal concept that has its roots back in the thirteenth century. It's an ancient offense and impact, somebody can be found guilty of this offence of misconduct in public office. If a prosecution can prove that the official willfully neglected to perform, the juicy ole miss conduct themselves to shit degree that amounts to an abuse of the public's trust in that person is an office holder raw, the surprisingly unite find the offense can lead to life imprisonment. In theory, the two I doubt that anybody who's actually charged with this in the modern day we'd have the face anything like that. No today's developments with Boris Johnson possible future prime minister of the UK being summons to face. Some of the guys shouldn't have I mean, it's quite is quite turn of events, who, who is accusing him the he's been accused by a man who has said for a number of years now the Johnson's been lie. Now his name is Marcus bull. And he's affects me being crowdfunding campaign to bring a private prosecution against Boris Johnson missed the bull began this case, a couple years ago, effectively accusing Boris Johnson of lying over a very important part of the AU referendum campaign in the U K Dominic we just saw Brexit here, start their own party, bars Johnson himself as in the front running as he said for prime minister, it's easy to imagine. These accusations are jammed up by his opponents and by Brexit opponents what, what is Boris Johnson saying about this charge? Well sources close to Boris Johnson, the saying that the prosecution is nothing less than a politically motivated attempt to reverse Brexit and crushed the will of the people he affects me says that's the Mockus bulls up. Plan has been to overturn referendum Vira legal challenge. So in the woods, his targets is the referendum result RAV the mister Johnson himself, and in effect. He's all doing that. There is a freedom of speech issue hit. That's whatever you think of MRs Johnson was. He said he had the right to say as, as a political campaign. This all comes down to is, is a very famous elements of the referendum, which was claimed that the UK with sending three hundred and fifty million pounds every week to the European Union. Now this tentative prosecution against MRs Johnson claims that not only was untrue. But mister Johnson new to be untrue, and therefore to ally, and it was a lie that had a really key effects on public opinion. It is an interesting contrast to what we heard from Robert Muller here in the states earlier today, emphasizing that an elected official in this case, the president of the US cannot be indicted while in office. What will this do? Due to the gas in bars. Johnson's prime minister tank. This is the million dollar question in many respects because I imagine that some of his closest supposes will use this as munition. They will see. This is an attack on them on the stand to get the UK out of the EU, the key issue, coast. Boris Johnson's opponents is now that he's affects been summonsed accused of a criminal offense. They could also be very careful about what he says, because the UK has a little cool, contempt of court, which means that if these accused of a criminal offense, you have to be careful about what you say about them so that they all ensured a fair trial free of prejudice. What impact will these charges have on the Brexit debate itself? I think this case, if it goes ahead may in some respects, become one of one of the kind of resolving points of the whole log into about Brexit, because the arguments over this figure that was put out during the referendum that the UK was sending three hundred fifty million pounds a week to the eve is became a very, very poised. Innis debase in the UK back in twenty sixty and it's one of the legacy issues off the referendum, where lots of remain say figure was either downright role or or willful lie by people who used it. So if this case goes all the way before jury the jury decision one way or another. You gonna have people on whichever side, the Brexit debate saying, we'll I told you so. But it's going to be extraordinary. If it comes down to this moment of one of the biggest Brexit figures, and in a jury of twelve men and women, you know, having to decide Otemachi, his face, and ultimately, he added the truth will also of a key element of the campaign, which potentially would take the UK out of the that would be wild. The BBC's dominant kashani. Thanks very much for speaking with us. Thanks, you're with the world. I'm Marco werman you're with the world. Hundreds of prisoners held by have been freed since the fall of the self proclaimed Islamic state caliphat in Syria, that includes ZD's members of a Christian minority who were captured when ISIS swept through their homeland in Sindh jar northern Iraq. Many if not most of the men were murdered and buried in mass graves, the women and children were enslaved, only some of them survived their captivity under ISIS fighters. My BBC colleague Quentin Sommerville has a story of one family that story begins in northern Iraq. ZDC house and the Syrian countryside, a bully, please on a swing. His name is Nash out. He's eleven years old, and he's just escaped the horror of by us or the Islamic state made its last stunned for five years. He was their slave dummy someone done when they would fly us children, no matter what age and make us servants nutrition that children nicely like a piece of gold, but they kicked us out to sleep in the garden whole sheep fold. I don't know why they would buy us if they didn't want to look after us. The first time we spoke he could barely remember Kurdish. The trauma heen Jewish is almost unimaginable by who's was an infernal at the end. He was taken on August. Thirteenth two thousand fourteen from the ZD homeland of singer in Iraq with his mother sister, and brother his mum was pregnant, she was sold to six different IS fighters and their wives after a year. She was sold without Nash out shortly after his sister was sold to, and he was left alone. With monsters had that headache deserves the Joe had cherish. Melvin a possum called upper Nassir, you'd always speech us, no food for month only piece of thread, once a day, had a slave discount. But what of the rest of his family, had they survived the chaos and the terror of I s. ESPN. Greeny mobile phone footage from four years ago, the called the release of Nash outs mother Hosea for a ransom. She was smuggled out of Syria with children into the homes of a weakening husband, but it was a bittersweet moment, then shot unto sister, Julene or still in his lamb extinct groups grip given refuge in Germany. There was no relief and freedom for foes Lia while her two oldest children were still in Syria being silent, who's my boss? We physicist psychologists nights did not pass without tears. We couldn't enjoy delicious meals or buy. Nice clothes for the other kids, it was the most difficult five years, Humanika declared the level. Her years of Cup tippety being passed from IAS fighter to fighter. Many of them foreign was a daily torture. The waves of IS vitals were especially crew. Cutting never life. I'm meeting knife, fought me. They called him the mayor of real estate in recor. He was married and bought me as a slave for his wife. She was so bad and treated my kids awfully. She beat them. And look them in the bathroom by getting Mojave. But her family was coming together. Again, in March the Shia with the help of people smuggler and another run some Julian was fund and brought back to Iraq. So last week, foes, Lia was at Frankfurt airport. Heading to Iraq to see finally or two missing children. I'm sitting under the fluorescent lights of international arrivals were waiting for a flight from Frankfurt Iraqi Airways Nasha here as is his sister, Julene. He's bouncing around the walls. He's super excited. Is wearing is brand new bright red shirt, and Jelena's sister? She's a little quieter an a little pink dress with guate-. And they're both staring intently at the doors waiting for the mother to arrive. Finally the mother arrives. Scooping them up with Sobh's and showers of kisses. For the first time in years, the family can sleep without feel under the same roof. We all know the Islamic state groups crimes on the battlefield. This is where it's really filled. They've tried to destroy this summer. Tried to wipe out the entire CD people. But he didn't they failed Islamic state groups on the run. No. But the pain and the suffering that they've caused has been amplified tens of thousands of families here in Iraq, and in Syria to, and that's going to take generations to recover from it. The BBC's Quentin Sommerville reporting there on one Yazidi family. Now safely reunited in Germany. I'm not going to get all Sabi because she would not have wanted it. Deb. Cohen was a close friend who passed away Monday and what she would have wanted is for us to play some great music right now, as we remember her because Deb wasn't just my good friend. She worked tirelessly for decades to get musicians from around the globe to perform in this country. And she was a friend to the musician. She worked with, like Ali, Farka Toure, Deb was his road manager on several tours here in the states. She made him feel at home, because she had spent a lot of time with him at his home in Mali, who they didn't do devote on. No cinema. Divo- Columbus comp- is government. This today. Deb got to know artists like Ali personally, when he sings there that rich countries, should stop giving poor countries bombs, and offer water pumps instead if they really want to help I can see Deb talking with him under a starlit sky around fire about these crazy conditions in the world. She walked the walk. And she literally talked the talk, Deb didn't just speak several languages, fluently. She could tuggle between dialects Portuguese Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese Parisian French and Molly and French that made people like Ali Farka Toure enormously comfortable on the road in a country. He did not know if you ever saw musicians, like Ali Farka Tura, which was my initial connection to Deb or Brazil's Donna, the Lozo, and you betta Geel, or more recently young Ethiopian singer. Songwriter McLean Darrow, or even if you just heard their music, you're on the show, you have Deborah Cohen. Thank for being there. Loving funny socially, conscious big-hearted chaperone from stage to stage. I'm Mark a woman thousands of Lund's lead their country to seek refuge in neighboring Colombia among them, Venezuelan, doctors reported disturbing number of preventable, medical conditions among the migrants rising, maternal mortality, and, and more holidays malaria. The needles HIV and syphilis stories still ahead here on the world. I'm Marco werman, and you're with the world where co production of the BBC World Service, PRI, w h here in Boston, the political and economic meltdown in Venezuela has disrupted the lives of pretty much everyone who lives there. It's also caused the largest migration in decades in the western hemisphere, as Venezuelans, flee the chaos by the thousands many head to neighboring Colombia public hospitals at the Venezuela and Colombia border are struggling to keep up with the health issues of migrants. They're much like their patients the healthcare workers need help a lot of it, Meghan. Genetic is a reporter in Michigan, and she's been covering the problems at public hospitals face in the border city of Macau Colombia Venezuela Khokar system and the hospitals in the country are practically collapsed right now. It was like that before March. There were in the they were in the midst of the economic. And political crisis. They had massive food and medicine shortages. And just when everyone thought it was the worst, it could get there were crippling blackouts that struck on the country later or around early mid March, and it just absolutely devastated. These hospitals, there are very few medical resources, like medicine, for instance things like surgeries without antibiotics. There's no lights a lot of times to perform care. So you're seeing this population fleeing Venezuela, and going to Columbia for medical care in Columbia, these hospitals. What would have some of the major health issues, the doctors are seeing that Venezuelan migrants arriving with these doctors are seeing growingly complex cases? So they're seeing a spike and preventable diseases like malaria, the needles. They're seeing a rise in maternal more. Talib's and infant mortality, they're seeing a surge and in cases of HIV in, in syphilis. It's just more and more complex and honestly, more grave cases showing up to their doors. Here's what Carlos Sanchez the director of the hospital in my house, said to me. This movie in commodity don't know. Area to know Cornell comes from that Cronica corn bay. Did you witness any cases like the ones? Carla Sanchez was, was just describing when you were there, that most startling one, the most jolting one that I can think of is when I walked into the hospital's maternity ward, there was an elderly woman crying. She was holding a phone with the photo baby on it. And what had happened was her Venezuelan niece had gotten operated on her pregnant niece, I might add, but operated on without antibiotics in Venezuela. And when she crossed into Columbia to give birth they had found that she was severely severely infected. But the problem was that they didn't have any space in the intensive care units. So she actually waited five days to see if she could get specialized care, and then died while giving birth and her babies survive. So tragic already we're seeing a lot to deal with in in Venezuela. Politically economically and now on top of it all life, life threatening health risk in getting transferred over to Columbia, it, certainly making it difficult for people to seek and provide for people to get health care. What did people at the hospital say they were most concerned about first they told me that if the situation continues like this, if they don't get aid from, you know, international entities or the Colombian government, which is struggling in itself. Keep pace that they won't have the resources to care for both immigrants or Columbia. One man told me they were worried that their facilities are turning into cemeteries for the migrant population and now they're really worried because they're seeing more more violent injuries coming to. Their their doors. They're worried that this crisis because of the political conflicts is entering a more volatile phase. Would you consuls and Columbia still need Meghan of, you know, you said earlier, they need aid? What it what do they need? What is it aid bang aid? They need right now as what they've told me is they need funds, and more resources for higher level, upper level care. It's not just vaccines, and basic medical resources that they need. It's gonna be resources to take on these worsening diseases Mogens toiling about an assignment. She was on at a public hospital in Macau Columbia. Let's take care of Venezuelan migrants. Thanks very much, Meghan yet. Thank you. Marco. Okay. Flash. Moths may be fun thing to see her to watch on YouTube, but a flash wall, a group of border wall supporters built a half mile stretch of wall over the weekend, it's on private land in Sunland Park, New Mexico. But the local government is not a fan and yesterday. City officials issued a cease and desist. Order Angelica chore. Go is a border reporter for the Albuquerque journal. It's eighteen feet high, and it looks very similar to the border barrier. We have in this area right now. It has these tall pillars. It looks look you can see through it so like offense and they, they are in deep into the ground. And the thing is, it's a half mile stretch of border in, in Sunland Park, New Mexico, and on the other side of nap from Mexico. So this group who built it and what they do it. So this, this group is known as we build the wall, and it is made up of various people, but the two co founders of our dust in Stockton. He's the vice president and the other one person. The very high profile founders, Brian Cole flood at triple amputee in air force veteran. They've been raising money through crowd, sourcing January and said they raised more than twenty million dollars. And the stretch of wall is the firm. Most of their projects in will cost about between six and eight million dollars. The why they did this Dustin Stockton, talk to me at the construction site about what was behind this, this massive effort. We recognize the symbolic value in building it, but we also wanted to have a. Meaningful security impact as well. They are very much in favor of putting up barriers allot of the people involved, including former Trump senior advisor, Steve, Bannon, if you go out to the site, you'll see not just a giant American flag. But a Trump twenty twenty nine so very much in favor of pushing the, the idea that the president wants a wall. And if he can't get it from congress or through an emergency declaration that the private funders will put it up. But of course, it had to be on private land in order to get this done. So this walls pretty much done, but the town of Sunland Park New Mexico's not too happy. Right. Was very tiny town. And, you know, most people are going to build something anywhere large or small town have to go through city. Ordinances get building permits. The, the owner of the land dropped off his application on Friday and the building started on Saturday in the city, Sunland park says that it was not approved, first of all in does not have complete information. So said season desist until further notice. And so. This multimillion dollar big wall is on hold for now. The it's almost completely finished. In fact, there's a big on veiling celebration scheduled at the site tomorrow. Steve Bannon and other high profile members of this, we build the wall, a team are going to be on hand. Would have people in Finland said about this. Well, you know, real concern that this was this happened over long holiday weekend took five days to build. Nobody really knew what was happening. There is a, a group that is fighting President Trump's -mergency, declaration environmental in this area southwest environmental center. The head of that group said it, should it was done under the cover of night in that the people doing it, obviously, don't respect the rule of law. So there's a lot of anger and concern about how this was done in done so quickly. Andrew, I knew in my city of you build something without a permit even on private land. The authorities might well tear it down or order you to take it down. Is that a possibility with Sunland park in this flash wall? Well people in, in the town are calling for that, but city officials are giving the company, the opportunity to present the documentation currently the size of walls at her proved by by the city are six feet tall. So this is as well above that. But the, the we build the wall, people say they did everything correctly and they're gonna fight any effort to, to have something done with what they clearly take a lot of pride in building Angela trigger with the Albuquerque journal, thank you. Always good to talk. Thank you. Marco. Knife crime has been at an all time high and parts of the UK and British Somali teenage boys have been disproportionately affected. That's why some mothers are sending their kids back to east Africa. They say it's safer there than in London. Russia is mile understands. She was born in Somalia, and she's the mayor of is Lincoln near London. Wait for her to be killed, or just dependent take a decision a decision to send your teenage boy back to the country. Your family originally fled Jamal Hasan is in London and mentors at risk young people in the UK. And in Africa Jamal, there is a cruel irony here because many of these families were seeking refuge in London, fleeing war back home. Is it really safer right now for a young black man to be in a place like Nairobi or even Mogadishu then in the UK right now, one hundred percent that is full for the boys, the suicide bombings, that take place in Africa. However, these targeted it'll go off the individuals if you'll young eighteen-year-old, slur Boorda, who you know, you'll be talking to these extremist moves a one to commit atrocious acts by London. If you're wearing to a new fit description, you could not leave your area, you'll you can only move on to three miles permits as soon as you get area the boys from of areas. Your lesson dangerous, basically. So you talking about gang violence in London. Then yes, Mogadishu is inherently more violence that he then London even these tough neighborhoods of London. I mean that's the capital, Somalia, surely, they're not getting sent back to Mogadishu. There's just been a series of violent bombings this week. You have a point surely, so what it is. We'll violent tribe for type than than the UK. However cannot makes two things the things you don't make him look is that these kids are leaving the UK to scape. Knife crime gun crime. Yes. Unto people out, these attacks, all boys, that nuclei them all, you know, address, light them simply competition. Maybe the Senate drugs, maybe you know that you looks at him in the roadway, but when you go Salil this doesn't happen, but yes, they'll things take place in saliva on in other countries. But it doesn't mean families. I'll put that kid's lives endanger, any more so than making them leave the UK because this, this. Cystic seal, they're going through the roof on new, but he's doing anything about it. I'm speaking with Jamal Hasan from Somalia, who's been mentoring at risk, British Somali youth in London. And in east Africa, you're sent back to Kenya as a teenager was your storage amo- like where were you living? And why were you sent back when I was seventeen was wanted into problems? Finally sent me though. And said to me look, but the difference is this, this is why I tried to educate parents. I had read a good parents. Thank god. I came from compete five both opponents with me, so they sent me down set to look this is what's happened around you. This is what happened to friends and it's going to happen to you. So we suggest is that go, goats Africo, go to Kenya which is close to see what life is. Like the when you see publicy first site, when you see, you'll finally struggling when you see other young people making the life of themselves, perhaps own event. You understand the paternity is that you have in the UK locate fan off, all go as if I decide I don't want to stay what would happen, if you come back. So when there was read overwhelming, because I knew gonna stay ozone deathl- Showtime, not to take an orphan, and it was very difficult for me to adopt under the same time. You know, you have social sympathy for every Austin, begging. On the streets as a teenager. You know, I didn't have wealth to give them Simas one day. You know, somehow someway, I am going to help my people, wherever they are in the what came back on us. When I've changed by a puff alive. Dema one thing that has been aggravating, the situation for young Somali men in London. And you brought this up earlier is knife crime. I mean, the UK has guns pretty much under control, but there were a hundred knife attacks in London, and eight of those were attacks on Somalia and yet Cemalli makeup, only one percent of the whole UK population. What why do you think these teenagers were were targeted dental targeted in particular for being somebody, but the tug, it hit is they have roller does invade life when you become fifteen you've seen a lot of stuff all those years happens is people tell you, if you sell drugs to me, if you go into streets, you Royal to excise at violence, you'll make money. So the kids sought to do this wouldn't. They thought you know making money then realize you know what? No, I could feel finally could be the man of the house realizing that they only put ticking time but will those still by the imprisoned or dying Demonte of a sense of how the British authorities are dealing with violence in these Somali neighborhoods. It's very difficult. Full full for the UK government to a single out only Somali communities untried to God help them because this is this is a problem, that's affecting UK as a whole in particular young black boys. But the situation with the UK government by Kuttan, you know budgets Cozumel youth centers. This does help the current climate of epidemic. Knife crime is only going to get worse. I save this Assad is because of the ground, I work with these kids, the Alvin quiz awoke with or have worked with the gun pasta way. There are some that I work with not of, you know, a very vulnerable that who knows perhaps, good forbid in, in a few months, they won't be run unless because there's no support. So it takes people like me. To leave by profession to come up Oganization on going to different profession own to give to the community. We can rely on the government to come in a safety. His we have to also Dema Hassan mentors young people in the UK and Africa. Many of them from Somali families tomorrow. Thank you for sharing thoughts with us. Thank you. Thank you to speaking with you. Hey, their world podcast listener. We're creating a newsletter to help keep all of you up to date with everything. We're doing in the world's newsroom, we want you to tell us what you think would be most interesting most useful for you in a newsletter from the world. So I'm looking at US Super fans to help us out and be a part of the world newsletter. Focus group. I know you are some of the smartest listeners out there. So your input will be really important to have. Don't worry won't take a lot of time to send us an Email to my world at the world dot ORG and right newsletter in the subject line. That's my world at the world dot ORG. Gee and thanks. The federal government is holding about fifty thousand migrants and asylum seekers in detention and that number increases every day, that's more people than ever before. Because the Trump administration is not releasing many of the migrants after their apprehended. Meanwhile, the facilities that hold those detainees have become big business for private companies and some local governments. But there is increasing pushback cities in California, and Oregon have stopped immigration and customs enforcement from using local facilities like jails. And that's prompting ice to seek out other communities where they can hold migrants in detention. The world's Rupa should know takes us to one small city in Rhode Island where this has divided the community. Central falls is just one dense urban square mile. It's drawn immigrants for generation says a mill town now. It's majority Latino next to the city high school's outdoor stadium. Is a Brown concrete building surrounded by fences and barbed wire. That's the Donald w Wyatt tension facility known locally as the Wyatt. It's huge. You know you can't really miss it. I, I never really knew what was going on until this past March, then Ulama Ghana heard about it at her high school Blackstone, valley prep. The Wyatt was holding a hundred and thirty three people for immigration and customs enforcement or ice, people were protesting outside. Madonna was asked to speak at a demonstration, should never done anything like that before. And her parents were worried they're from El Salvador, where the biggest fears is okay. We'll let a few go speak out and then somehow this comes back to us, and we, you know, for whatever reason get in trouble or like worst case scenario, get kicked out of the country. Like they didn't want that. Madonna talked them down. And when she spoke, she was surrounded by city leaders, why it represents inequality. It represents inhumanity. But most importantly, why it doesn't belong in central falls, but it did once for another generation of central falls residents twenty five years ago when this struggling city needed money detention center seemed like a good idea to then mayor Thomas Zia. He's the son of Syrian and Lebanese immigrants. To the city the way it was the first in a nationwide building. Boom encouraged by the Clinton administration of publicly owned privately operated adult correctional facilities. It was set up as a nonprofit corporation with a board whose members are appointed by the mayor. Came in from the facility were I to be used for its operation. Secondly to pay the bonds and Thirdly, the city would gain any revenue, if the revenues exceeded those amounts, and the city did make money initially more than five million dollars. But that all stopped in two thousand eight when a detainee died as a result of medical McClatchy after that is cancelled all its contracts with the white the facility fell into deep debt, it tried for years to work its way out by getting back in business with ice. They wasn't successful until earlier this year via ruse revenue to be brought to the city that this new contract was going to accomplish. But then came the protests outside the white, followed by a move that really got people talking in central falls. It happened in one evening. The mayor abruptly appointed new board members. And those members voted to cancel the ice contract. They said the detainees hadn't had access to lawyers. Former mayor Lizzy ah was in the audience and says they had no proof. Interest of central falls is been centered on satisfying, the Hispanic population in us city and not being fiscally. Responsible to the entire ethnic populations city through proper management. It seemed like the central falls protesters had been successful began moving detainees out, one of them looked really young. Like he looked like he must have just turned eighteen Deborah. Gonzales directs the immigration clinic at the nearby. Roger Williams university law school. She was asked to come in to do a know your rights presentation for the remaining ice detainees about twenty of them wearing orange scrubs and white cloth shoes. Most told Gonzales, they'd come from the southern border to ask them if they knew where they were. They were like, well, it's in the US really, I don't think they had any concept of where those, she says one, young man knew he was being. Transferred out of the Wyatt and cried because he thought he was going to be deported. He held onto the table, and he said, we don't want to leave this place, although they were just going to another facility, but I don't think they were being told where they were going. I went to meet the Wyatt's warden Daniel Martin. He says, what people don't understand is that detainees are treated really well at the white responsive to detainees needs. Always the case in other other correctional systems and stuff. You know, Martin says he's used to locals misunderstanding, what he does version. You just have to educate them. Ryan, educate them and inform them as to what you know what we do in how we do it. We would hope they would, you know, support the fact that we don't control who who's house there on. Fortunately, this is a business. That's misinterpreted. Misinterpreted business. Maybe but still powerful, the why its bondholders struck back forcefully. They sued the city and there was a quick reversal. Once courts got involved in late April of federal judge ruled the Wyatt board couldn't cancel the ice contract. It was reinstated ice started sending detainees back returned. A large large number again, and we have been pretty much business as usual in, we're hopeful that things remain, as they are the judge made it clear he would be overseeing the future conduct of everyone involved differ results, but you have to be happy in knowing at least steps were to assure people's rights. The current central falls, mayor James Llosa is the. Son of former undocumented immigrant a lot to him just as explained to me to find the courage to leave everything behind. It was a risky was willing to take for survival and to be able to provide for his future family, which is us. So this hits me, so many levels with news of children dying in detention facilities. He says having more oversight for the Wyatt helps him sleep at night. Mayors sister on the front lines. They have to deal with these issues. And I think if leaders don't stand up matters are going to get worse. But it's an unsatisfying ending for high schooler than yellow Magana, she understands things can't change completely overnight. You know, you can't just one day them be locked up the next day, then be released. It doesn't work that quickly especially because of, you know, the government that we have in the society that we live in. But with cities like central falls, at least. Fighting back ice will have to work harder to figure out where to house its detainees. I'm just hoping that there's actually. Actually victory for the world. Rupa sh- annoy central falls, Rhode Island. And that's where we leave it today from the nanna Bill Harris studios at W H here in Boston. I'm Marco werman. Thanks for being with us. We're back with you tomorrow. Our public radio international.

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