7 Episode results for "Alanthea"
EG Head Coach Peter Dun hears your Spring MVP suggestions, Mid-Season predictions and more | HLL 164
"Will how do you do everybody. It's hotline league episode. One sixty four and boy. Am i excited to be here. There's so much to talk about tonight because we are headed into playoffs. Everybody that's right. It is playoffs time. We're getting some playoffs action going heroes layoffs cage. Ms ls are fighting each other. Or we do that. I don't think we're really doing this. John read it right now. Well alienware that thing their stuff stuff talk about stuff we won't talk about and it's most of what mark just mentioned and then we're gonna take all sorts calls First off let me go ahead to anywhere and game feel for sponsoring the show mountain dew. Game fuel really appreciate Their sponsorship mark is my constant co host. And this here mark going. It's going pretty good cited for playoffs. Anything interesting. this week for you. I got a like pastry holder. So the muffins i bake now can go right into pastry holder and it looks like a legit cafe in my kitchen. It's pretty dope. I should post picture like okay when i think of a legit cafe. I think of like a like you walk in. And there's like a glass sort of dream situation. Imagine apple shrunk down to fit on your counter top okay and you bake muffins. Now you have not mentioned this previously to me. I we so actually found a recipe for these honey. Banana muffins dope hell so just posted twitter. And then you can look at it okay. Can you post it your way of the show. Like with a link saying that we've begun at least posting the link into a peter move onto our guest for the night the day. The whole time loop thing has changed in the past forty eight hours. Now i'm confused Peter done is here coach for evil geniuses. Peter do you want to introduce yourself and sort of your history and league east sports since the first time you've been on the show at one nice to meet you The the head coach people geniuses. I worked in various regions before. You may know me as the guy who's who was helping to coach my lands to planes before lucky. That's very Performance of other than that looking forward to hearing two things. Yeah i know you from having the most clipped but inciteful tweets ever you like. I don't know when you start doing. But you have like really short tweets. That use like lingo. That was so four years. Just like i miss world so i did one tweet summaries of all the games by just every single game and then did a second tweet. Something interesting happened Via computer about that. I used to do this and they were so like. I don't know you had to see this is back when it was like one. Forty characters to summarize a game forty years and it was like almost unreadable unless like you just filled in words on your own for what you're saying it was really fun. I just realized that. I really like your tweet is so awful and we'll drive no traffic like to this screen shot of the stream. And like you're like all capital letters with some click bait and all that stuff. This is a trophy disagree. I already have three people replying. It's like more engagement can use the thing where you can look at your twitter analytics like individual twitter analytics right view tweet activities. You have that. Yeah okay so how. Many people have clicked the link that you put in it. Versus like last week's link clicks too. So i think people like it. Just it's i gotta compared to the other ones astros edge into a at right now says please upload lisa spotify and i can only imagine astor's like i'm not trying to call it astros edge you know but i'm going to anyway like astor's edge must have come to this channel and typed please upload lisa spotify having done zero search whatsoever spotify. 'cause i pretty sure since like we're on episode hundred and sixty four. I'm pretty sure since episode eight these have been on spotify and I'm just. I see that stuff sometimes and it. Just i it blows. It blows my mind. The emily ran one. Had one hundred eighty one link clicks by the end of the night. So we're gonna go find out exactly. How many just a picture of my life kind of cafe because there's not even like the thing is people miss even the fact that there's a link there they just see the muffins like i don't. Even the i saw the flickering doc these tweets are shirt. Rock tweeted twelve seconds ago. Oh wait this. Hotline league is on. thanks mark. Gurman accomplish that person came here from my twitch chat and everyone go click the link to fuck with the analytics also took the name anyway. Let's get into so first off. Maybe we ask peter a couple of questions about coaching. ag alanthea's lets. You wanna throw any his way at the start. After you've tweeted your muffins. I i would just like to hear a little bit about like how and a has been coaching here. I know you had a three hundred. Yeah interview and stuff. I think i saw on the front page of it. Not too long. Goes well talking about this but in case anyone missed it just like. How's it been here as like a scene and then also like with ecg. in particular. it's been great. I mean i. I feel like i've been misled about the climate california code invading the entire time that i've met him which is a good thing for me as i mean all i can say is. I've been here for three weeks. It's really great to meet the guys i mean. Obviously we have a roster from the veterans. It's mainly been out Teaching it's been partly down potty coachee pop negotiation for how we're going to classical style with all of these replaceable that competing styles of how Lighting also been working amateur in kademi. Who had their this series. That i wasn't wasn't the greatest serious Level in both games in both games ended in twenty five minutes but it's been fun with I'm really glad to be here. It's been hog working from europe because the delay of between in communication kind of made it impossible to be reviewed that so yeah mark. Did you know he. He only got here around. The saint. thomas proxy hit his visa issues. Paralleled like the bronx and stuff. I didn't follow this closely when he got here. I know for lock in and through the first week. Peter wasn't with the team. But i didn't know when he exactly got in a same day of boxer basically But obviously i you know. I can still coach. I just come to team coaching. It's just yeah one coaching in analysts. Back yeah how have you worked. much with. Kelsey directly calcined took quite a lot Just general But it's it's been. It's been good with cheese. She's many doing stuff from the collegiate on the amazon side so she doesn't really via we'll give Especially especially with the carribean. That it's been really great work. You tweeted something yesterday. So many tweet at unit was like what's it. What's it like to work with. Hang on. I need to go find this. What's it like to work with a player. Who like oh. How do you coach player. That runs it down amid said sorry. No idea i've never had a middling or who plays like this before the to the only two millions of work within the past three years of human And by those that absurd okay. I'm a fan experience with this era. Yes i don't know he get first blooded in a unbreakable record in the g. game. I don't think it's possible to die faster. And a pro game then. Then that one was very impressive i. I'm impressed but i mean the thing is that. Cotr dope in any games with gives us right so he was just on tactical was. How quickly could he get. I i see we will. We want to accidentally have Invasion get account Securing the win. We needed a genius. Okay well i'm sure a lot of people have more questions for peter as as the night goes on But a couple of different things so now we have our sixteenths. We know when they're going to be playing Folks can go over to. I'm not going to pull all of it up but people are can go over the wall to see the schedule Excuse me in the bracket What's interesting is that. There's a format change now for soap and by the way it's as actually they've renamed it no longer spring split playoffs. It's now mid. what does it. Mid season series mark midseason showdown showdown. That's right and And previously i think what would have happened is we would have had like a well. It can be g dig matchup. I think to start things like that. We wouldn't have started with the spicy matches. No offense peter We would've but now we're starting with t. l. tsm c nine hundred or starting in the upper bracket which i think is very interesting so we get like straight into some really crazy games especially at tsn t. l. game because i think a lot of people are curious like i think people project c-9 into the finals in there carries who's gonna join them there so that'll be fun. Wait was this exact same last time work but people are saying that the schedule and everything was the same last time wolfer spring in spring. There was six but did they have the schedule. Start with in the opera kansas. Yeah i'm pretty sure. I would need to look back. But i'm pretty sure it's it's the same you i. So sherman says it's a very similar format to leicester so i'm going to say that there are some changes And that's what i'm going with. I'm excited by the little changes that they made to make it. Even though i'm pretty sure there with three games a week and it was over three weekends. I think there's two games a week and it's over four now. Maybe i'm crazy. I be crazy. I mean what i say. It's fantastic rest week. At fourteen days before we have to plow first game. We don't have to take the taxi with zero two against that season. i love i love new format. But that's that's why you guys for six. You knew going to end up fifth cloud under this regardless so we got that We can take a bunch of calls on that. Who who ho ho. How do people think the games are going to go this weekend. And the strength of the different teams obviously easy questions for peter and then I think what's fun about this. This show which we get once or twice a year as i have not my votes for mvp or all pro or coaching staff. Maybe peter can convince me that. Ag deserves coaching staff But mark have you cast yours yet no With the dive and all this stuff going on and we have meetings today. i just don't have time and And peter i don't know have you can you. Can you vote. I assume okay and you have probably not cast yours yet okay. So here's what i'm going to say. Hotline league callers. You have disarmament build our ballot. You have in this moment. The chance to sway make arguments convince us any you know. Just let us know like maybe. Maybe we're wrong assumptions. I don't think we can say where we're leaning at or how we're going to vote because You're not supposed to reveal how you're voting but you can call in right now and make your argument for why you think x. Player deserves to be mvp or on the all team or whatever coaching staff etc. So i think that's also really fun because obviously starting soon that will start to get revealed so That's that's how the shogo anything. Oh mark anything else. We want to talk about. I already pulse people for some playoff predictions. Polls some stuff about you know talent development in the you're already pulling people i'm i'm pulling them right away. I don't want any i to keep the waiting. I wanna professional. I don't think i've actually ever talked with. Peter like like you guys have literally number scanning stuff but yeah i don't i don't think we've ever we've ever met and talked or anything if it's funny but then they may be. I just have to say that. I apologize because of the weight i will the cameras up the screen with all the chap is literally over this. If you see looking at that though action. That's doing multi moving contracts. Don't worry i'm always playing with my cat. anyone is going to be like. Oh my rude peter. Oh you know one thing. That got announced today that i forgot about because i didn't get an email. Pigmy me embargo And so clearly. It wasn't big enough information that right felt like they should. They should do that but The finals are going to take place at the theater. Here in la. That was in the announcement. Wasn't it on reddit. Yeah that's what i'm saying. I'm saying i'm saying. I had almost forgotten when we were listening off. Things that got announced recently midseason showdown actually having a live finals. Not not that people can offer. But at the greek theatre here in los angeles i think is That's that's cool. They're going to do it. Cross saturday and sunday for i guess the two days super like the the emerging beaches kind of showed up. I think the major regions As a brazil had their finals like a massive skyscraper in the middle of sao paulo would like isolated blocks of saint building helicopters. Show me And i think russia. I think the russian finals they had like a pilot's kate seth a comparably the exact thing that it was january said now we get light spectacle almost positive that that was was that summer or spring because i remember people were meaning the shit out of the during that time for like getting out out produced by by cb lal jin shot thing the one of the things that insane jin shot to where there's the guy on stage doing the snipes. I think that was cbo. I don't know there's a lot of cool stuff last year. Brazil sanchez live of the finals. It was always have the most ridiculous of while either. I'm excited for it. I mean this will be to my knowledge the first time that we have players sitting in on on a stage for over a year. Now so. I think that's really exciting. I also in. I'm really curious. I hope right is able to do something really. Cool presumably not having an arena full of of fans. Create some sadness. You know it's like okay. Well you can't get the cheers stuff but maybe you can do some really cool visuals You can do some sort of takeover of that area of lighter. Just fill the arena with virtual of sherman. Yeah i think it'll be great anyway. I think that's gonna be yeah. Should we take our we bring our first caller. Sure i guess. I will spam discord into a chat for people who have never seen this before. It's a live call in show. You can go ahead. Click this link when you get there go. Joined the puck calls. Putt call voice channel. Put your takes and your topics up in the club. Topics text channel. If i like put into the waiting room. We'll hang out. We'll do a quick audio check when it's your turn and then we'll pull you into the air room and If you are a sub thank you for suffer being sub be sure to sink your discordant which chat so that you can get access lee sub-topics channel which moves a little slower and does give you You know bit of a decent chance of getting into the call While we're waiting on mark to come back which. I need to pull up this. I can see okay while we're waiting on. Mark two comeback. Some sub shutouts Thank you to vent this official Bomber x. pilgrim panda flick neekam. I love you chat I-in scrub volts and spencer neutron squirrel squad here skurdal's squad back to the show. You've been on before yes. No i'm i'm another guy named skurdal squadron. There's different swirl squad. I mean it's the squirrel squad. Do it's just one of squad go. Okay sorry i thought that previously the caller had been the entire squad. I did not realize this was an indiv- individuals skurdal from the squad Where you calling from charlottesville virginia. Okay what do you wanna talk about on the show. So here's your so mark and travis and peer if you haven't chosen every p your mvp al-farsi my boy barney morris I think it's hard to see liquid succeed. How far ages from the i. I think the biggest thing that he does he just gets ahead are the whistle not and moves around the map. Help the team. I have stats extra back. I took five minutes to actually research just on on stats. So for him. His highest goal difference at fifteen. It's nine hundred five gold. The next closest hunia two hundred nine he has high sierra de at fifteen sixteen the next size impact at six he has a high sola kills nine at his high school kills. He is basically highs. Kp six eight percent. Second highest impact was. Also you know a good player too and has also the highest katie for top leaders. In contrast that to blabber who's the jungle or that's kind of in the running hit at fifteen is tie was torn is offensive tina's four hundred forty two versus three hundred anyone of san lorenzo. Pretty even there is. Kpi second it which is close to closer who has seventy six percent. And the basically the best that blabber dominates in his x t difference fifteen first blood percentage but he's also second hyphen katie sanctuary. So i think alpha just hands down has the best stats league. He's the best in the league and he definitely deserves your mvp votes mvp votes. What will you mean an argument for all pro top. Lehner right if if you're saying that he's like the best top lehner. But i don't i don't know i guess you mentioned the other stats as well i i. It's it's harder. I feel like when you're comparing across the stuff i mark. What do you think i mean. I think it sounds like from what i heard in the community and stuff that the two main candidates that people are discussing our blabber and al fiery. I think both of them. Like i haven't dug in and done my like full research. Where my initial leaning is towards blabber. I think his dominance over the rest of the jungle position for most of the split was pretty incredible. Far as obviously been been incredible the top lane as well but i felt like i saw blabber just takeover games pretty consistently in have a larger effect on the games. That was winning. I think far is incredible. Obviously he's the best top land league. He'll be my provo. Almost hands down to all those stats. That you referenced. But i'm going to eventually go back through and look at some of the wins and losses and be like how much they doing in each of them And i feel sometimes even necessarily al-faris fall. I felt like sometimes this team was not playing around him perfectly or like messing up some of the stuff like that game where they absolutely slammed impact for example through ginks the top lane and then like zero four impact ends up being better. It's like who's calling for them to dive impact the fifth time at like the inner turret when dragon is up in like some of those kinds of calls which is like. That's not really al. Faris fault and i'm not going to hold that against him but like there's an. There's a number of those kinds of places where i'm a little like got team liquid so i don't know i'd have to relook at some of the losses and some of those winds kind of reevaluate him because right now my early votes for blabber question which is how many talk this get as many rooms. This propagates. I mean it's it's it's like i mean if you can use mvp. I think atari isn't even the number one candidate team medical. Like i mean core. You just look at the recent game. You played against them. Who's the passengers top blowing. Zukas flash is. It's seven minutes. He's been pushes the passerbys roaming top the first time. We're gonna play the liquid. it's coach he's the one who's helping the dive in those types So i mean for me. It's like i mean i. I only a woods giving give me would somebody. Who's on the best thing is blah blah. And if you ask me who who's the one who's giving his leeds. It's kojak hot metro's moten metrics where he can but in matchups where took his unfavorable or even also say he gets the most of the top in the except maybe he Eventually make him. So that's affected. Yeah i think like Even like for example just because the freshman memory the game where he nar into the gp into the nar. The one hundred thieves game. That just happened. Santana went up there and they had a ton of free easy dives as well to help snowball and like. I don't want to one of the things. I don't know who's calling for you know like is l. Far just setting up the waves perfectly and be like hey santo or and after you finish your clear. This is going to crash the perfect time. Just swing behind keiko. Jj get a lane. Yada yada yada so. I think it's interesting. I mean i'm with you on blabber is going to be my vote. The the who team liquid should get the mvp votes though is isn't interesting discussion because i feel like everyone has kind of defaulted to far because of some of the lane leads that he gets whether or not all him or or those. Those rooms that you talking about. I mean the interesting thing is like everyone saying tactical is having an awful slip. That's the debate whether that's true enough. But if tactical is having an awful spend your lane is always ahead having one possible condition. Right so i talked about having your muscles pencil boys. Just yeah you can lead a horse to water but sketch two six. Two two in chat says is there a reason only has mentioned and then later accused twitched cia analyst of hating tsm. So i was about to bring that up to peter like do you think there's an mvp candidate on tsn because we were talking about this on the dive today and trying to be like you know sword rpo of of the tm players. Because even even if you're not saying you know this is my actual main. Mvp vote you have three votes or you for a second third. And so assuming. You're not doing too on one team you know. Sounds like we're both blabber and then maybe a team liquid player and then you're probably are voting for tm player. So who. Who would you or i throughout. Even fbi impact could be one What do you think of a about a csm mvp candidate and then like who would it. Be if you're going to do so the interesting thing on this is you. It's often hawks see how a team flight right. Puree teams always tend to play in a similar way and soda team swelled Dot also teams some sorta teams especially sitting seemed to this particular way right and the question is do. Tm play more like a soda team or more like a period of like soda. But i mean they don't play. This is not the to play like us big nauseates. It's team that plays like I mean a factor wholesale. Gee i mean they were pretty good right with gary They made they made. Third almost may worlds. I mean they were. They were good not like world class exactly but they were good map setups with a particular way right. And those are the kind of Map setups team out at up to now pay like old. Okay so i mean. Puree looks individually more impressive I don't know whether it's coaching stuff. I don't i don't know whether it's a. It's an individual shuffling thing. I don't know who meeting review but from the outside it looks like office cutting tsn. into how into. I'm going to say super controversial opinion habit turning into a special sitting. I can't tell the compliment or not I think he deserves credit. It's interesting too because sorta got super flamed through the first week somewhat justifiably for for really struggling in those first couple of games. He had a lot of mechanical errors in their dives. Look terrible and stuff like that. And i think that's one of the things that you know. We talk about the style that they've taken on. There are a lot of rooms out of sort losses you know. They're not playing through bottling there he's he's roaming quite a bit but like it's hard for me to look some of those early games from start to because i'm usually lasts like this is the most important player for their team. And i i try and be like what did this guy do. And over the course of all eighteen games kind of thing. Yeah and i. You like individual performance mathis like i wouldn't blame anyone for put the off various like number one choice like hurry individually in say the by. That's not what's here but it's just went looking for them. Vp generally. I know these players from a long way back. Unless it's like a new book and see how the goals they played in the safety and how teams trade around the initials interesting in house teams. How this has chosen ball to play like the period. I mean maybe they'll change your tacitus skurdal. I mean what do you think of of all this because it feels like you're like it seemed as though you thought was the fisher candidate but seems like our. Our lineup is unconvinced. And mark even going. So far as to basically say he's looking at blabber is his stature like one but i think is like more like also a visual thing of like what people see. I think peter portuguese actually insane. So killing i mean honestly. I'm big deal fan but the fact that that team liquid is still winning like bottling tv. Two's at that point out like even though tactical low running it down. I think like shows how good chorus So i think that'll maybe hurt l. Far if you splits votes with core or in general But yeah i i know. I'm fine with either player player. Getting i think tail has like the best roster and they're probably gonna just throw the whole midseason showdown coming up so moisture blabber knock it why i mean i think the only thing i can say is like stats wise. It's pretty similar to others in the league. Like that's that was what i was looking forward to say. Why not blabber But i do agree. Labradors takeover game. So he's really good. So i don't know. I mean i will push back a little bit on the blabber stats are close other jugglers. He has three point one. Kills an assistant fifteen on average and a game. The next closest is santa horn at two point. Two and this is like you heard a lot of jugglers complaining that this is support diff- meta And like oh it's it's a lot of power farming you know for a while there. Like scott full clear and do objectives. People that blabber was still is still an absolute monster in the early game and finding kills his gangster. Really efficient. He will just fuck up the other juggler as hard as he can when whenever he sees the opportunity to like. i think he is An absolute monster Well squirrels rather anything. You want to say before we move onto the next caller. Thanks guys appreciate it. All right off marcos to find our next friend Thank you to spencer neutron for three years Jaffe fifty eight for the one year of voro for twenty three months cheval crew blow lacrosse set for a year and a peter expe owner. Thank you we got. Julio here's my saying that right rohullah just rojo's okay. I can't sit with an accident and get fancy fancy and All right so rojo. Where are you calling from. Red oak texas red oak texas. What do you want to on the show. I wanna talk about the idea of Claire development kind of being a symptom of a problem rather than the problem itself so i think that staffing and coaching development should be the main focus of teams rather than just player development. Because you have have someone to develop the player before the player can be developed. Gotcha t think defines All the current coaching staff in the disappointing. No not at all. I just think that it's kind of unfair for some coaches like bureauc- sin who if given time maybe would be an incredible coach but he's this kinda thrown into the head coach position Or like another example would be mathie who stepped down from a head coaching position. So mathie intentionally. Like i did an interview with him earlier this year. He intentionally stepped down from the head coach position because he decided he wasn't. It seemed as though he's he felt like he wasn't ready for that kind of like on his shoulders. Again so I don't know if that helps your point or if you think if you're if he was given the time under and other coach or given time as support rather than as the head coach he would be a great coach now and he would probably feel more confident in the head coaching position. Gotcha so maybe. The ideas that were rushing people into head coaching roles. You you would argue. Perhaps that Are gaylon for sale g. Similar situation like maybe. He helped liberate with academy team. But we're repeating. A lot of people perhaps players into head coaching roles. You feel like we're doing it too quickly. Yes okay the the only question for you is like then are there to feel like. There's a lot of other candidates that are ready for that head coaching role. Like who because you obviously on. Tsm you have to have somebody else in that role before bjork's and get there so would you just have like an parth there. I mean that's obviously a difficult question. I guess my my take is very like long term focused rather than just. Hey solve the problem now and just clip it in ship it. But yeah i. I actually don't know how you solve the short-term okay well so so generally just summing up the whole thing the head coach role we have too many people that aren't ready for it yet and we need to give some of these folks more time to develop before they're in the head coaching role. And that's one of the things that are is slowing the development of vinnie and across just not just the head coaching but just in general being really intentional. Attentional making coaches rather than have shifting into the coaching position. Gotcha gotcha okay. Well peter let's show it to you because you you've obviously code for some time. I i agree. I had to check myself just before i was gonna say this because i think of Responsible because i was gonna say asian teams but that's actually not technically trip summation teams kind of divide. This between two. They have a head coach. They have like a strategic coach. Right strategic coaches the guy who wrestled stage. He's the guy does the draft. He's the guy who needs review and the head coach. The coach has no power to interview. He he will help individual people but head coaches volvos. abbas to be generalist and hassle game northern. Judy has to how to motivate discussion with this bet. What he's therefore is navalny guys strategic touch vanish strategic coaches there and he came will specialize specialized knowledge. Right by it's it's possible that as a strategic kociolek ten out tended to areas but it doesn't matter if you're in other areas because the head coach is going to be that covering for you right. And i think as we see most sophisticated. Coaching setups happened. We talk about kind of how a team works together. Onstage how you know you need to balance. Tv to hiding best you two weeks and i think you're gonna see that in purchase off as well like we talked about how how to balance a playing a onstage of yosemite to coaches. She conscious have all these people who specialists in communication conflict resolution. Nobody who hasn't gained much same same token you up everyone who's a specialist in game knowledge as well. You need to have a balance and sometimes if you have only people who specialists will begin. You don't have somebody has to go out to involve it's not the most convenient for that right. Because they have to fit another time folks. i think as as as coaching development goes And develops with your gonna see more sophisticated approaches from my fridge. I think you. I think you call expect that. Be insane talent development especially with young players. Unless you have unless you invest in your cabinet coaches just common sense academy matches more than than lcs because announced seo veterans. Who can who can take over lots back. Coaching responsibility for the new class. But who's going to do that. I mean you need. I think To that point though about the different roles that coaches can have because the caller sound like you need to invest in a coach. Who's going to teach the younger players. Whereas i don't think that's necessary for improvement off. It's great if you have some pro. Who's going to be able to like rain over like read lead. These guys are west. Dry seem really important for development. But i think having a really good environment for these players to play in and making sure that you have someone who has conflict resolution skills like you're saying that can when the players start butting heads on how to approach the game and what they should be doing this kind of stuff having someone who can who can guide that discussion so it doesn't evolve in the way that lena was sharing a story on separated about you know hostile and reggie playing a one b. One pasta should play more and still look. You know like having systems enrolls in place that you don't necessarily need someone to tell you how to play as much as sometimes you just need someone who can get the team moving in the right direction and so two callers. Point like yeah. You should invest in your coaches who can guide that development just as much as you should find someone who can actually give you the right answers to game related questions as well and sometimes it takes longer. It feels like to find people. Who i i guess. There's more people who can fill the conflict resolution role from outside the league ecosystem. Or who can bring that experience. You also played league versus like you need specifically a really high level player who also understands five five competitive or maybe they're specializing in a single lane. Or whatever but i feel like that knowledge is maybe a little bit harder to find a go ahead. I agree but also it's worth saying if you had a successful playing career you should naturally have an bumped. Jovan somebody who just coming in fresh but that a lot of players who even conventional Sayaka players who are star players in that time who you wanted from the teams who could give identity someday you'll humphry And who turned out very good coaches as a result at but at the same time you have people like new york. Don't really have that kind of a a high level playing pat you get these things from all areas So i mean. I think we have to be careful to fine. Cena people outside of the game of people where you need this oscar. Get people set against her. Going yoga going back to the callers take though which is about development of coaches. I mean peter. How peter mark mark. You're on the coaching in a coaching role previously. How do doesn't develop its coaches and are the elsia org doing enough to develop them. I mean this. I can say what i did back in the day and i mean i don't think i was fucking reinventing the wheel or anything but always looking for people to hire And i know it's a pretty scummy tactic that people hate about Hire people on the cheap and being like hey show me some portfolio. Do maybe a little bit of volunteer work. But we didn't have a ton of resources at the time now my salary is that big back then and so. I had a team of people who i would give projects to and see who impressed me. I would work with and mentor. In some capacity like on what i wanted to see different done and share how i was approaching the game and trying to fix problems and that kind of stuff and some of those people are still like in the scene like not like i made their career. I'm just saying like i was. I think the first person to hire them like tk. Who is still team liquid. David lim was a basketball coach before we hired him. And he's in your now. I think He's he's he's coached for a long time now. Though so like you know i. I don't think i did anything that crazy. But i think to develop coaches. You'd have to hire them work with them. The same way you do it with players and give feedback of what they're doing right and wrong listened to the players astra players what they think of this person like. I don't know. I don't think it's some insane regiment that you have to do. I agree with you. But i think if your head coach like i think head coach is often so i depend on your stoppage academy If you're like a head. Coach pronuncia steve. The guy who's leaving your academy team. They better have like but you better investment them because if they don't the good job and how to tighten development putnam coming out. You know the dave been told the game the same way right like it's i think it's waiting to the phantom In those people. And i mean for me like when i joined in twenty eighteen right we interviewed ninety-six people finally for a need Twenty two people. But but like i literally interviewed every single person who gave me a cold message on every single bustle. And i wouldn't say the of mack who were the two people with the timing of to be strategic consistent with the two best but they were the two people who showed that they had time for improvement on my crew. Who would just academically smart like a good plan for self disciplined. Were were like you know they. They realized that they had a good plot. How they going to continue to improve. And obviously that both now head coaches in dc doing trump. So i'm i'm not as as Yeah that for Gee i mean from my perspective like there's a lot of a lot of web. Eg doesn't egypt and there's a lot to find that i spend talking to collegiate coaches. And i'm just going to tell you that short you know some of it is because i will help other people at the also selfish right like i want to see who the next day coach to get them before. Anyone else does some so. Yeah so so i. I think it's possible. I think you have to develop people. And i don't think it's a case of just finding some good plan and developing them. Although account that that is waterford you have. You can be because if you've been a good laugh. You can demonstrate you. Understand the game at buckley to haul enough. Peter marks foul question on this for for the callers. Take our elsia swords. Not doing enough to develop their coaching stuff. I've been out the game long enough. That i don't fuck in really know what teams are specifically doing behind the scenes. I talked some coaches but usually when you talk about as a broadcast analyst. Usually when you talk to a team about what's what they're up to in this kind of stuff it's more about lcs day j- in howard the players in this kind of stuff. You rarely ask. Like what are your initiatives For leveling up your coaching staff. I feel like we talked about that kind of stuff. I guess but from my perspective. I spoke to like i said i. In twenty two people for the kind of the vote at tuttle has Could she soft out. And i often like what does an old can do to help you become the best version of yourself because you know we spend. We spend a lot of you talk about how you develop class. So one of the veterans. I'd like to ask is how. How can we as develop you. Like twenty of those people had never had to do anything for and you know my question. Will you vote for the head coach. No so what did they give you. He was like oh he said hello to the tokyo over lunch like one or two days a week and i mean maybe i just want to give the phone people might defaults to. This is from what. I've seen so far johnson Right by any people investing in invented this dove every need money. I mean like time right but bear in mind that i've talked to a small software people. Many of those people didn't have deep. So maybe it was. Maybe it was just a the phone. Something people But obviously like i can say vg's perspective. That's incredibly important by the way. When i when i was into. Vga said that this is the his he my How we develop plans and how we're going to. Scotland developed plus became scott. The defendant coaching stuff. And you must have but you have long into what if you're one. So that's i'm going to go with. No not doing especially peter said in like kelsey is in the chat. She says that a lot of times academy like the coaching staff was fairly fractured. Where it's like academies just told you just go and do stuff. I don't hear too often about like. Hey we went to like this coaching seminar. Or we you know. This team really did a lot to like help. Make me a better coach. I just don't ever hear that stuff. So i'm not saying i'm sure some or do a better job of it than others but i would bet a lot of them are just like all right. We hired this coach. Make our team better And by the way. That's not to say that i i bet you a lot of other regions. Have the same issue right like. It's very immature sports so i don't think that we're at a play place yet. Where is we can. We can be good about this But i i think it's definitely true that we're probably not doing much. Developer coaches rojo. Thank you oh yes funding. But i agree with everything trump said but also it's saying that in europe they have not to selection right they have you mazdas and they have like how many eighty amateur level academy level teams when you can prove yourself cut track whereas in america we don't have that. So where's your talent pipeline for coaches right. So it's not. It's not as much of your problem in europe as it is in north america because you can just look at all these teams that i coach looking over the success i conquered the duchy spanish league. This and you know this is what i cannot suggest trumpian in somebody new in both america. They don't have like this. Just martha's opportunitist even actually even on that point like you know the best thing you have is kind of what we're saying with the academy system but even then your goal with the academy system is more player development than necessarily like winning. You could say And so these coaches in the master's region and stuff and be like well. I got my team to the finals of our regional league. Which is maybe a better thing than like i like how would someone measure z l g academy this split You know from the outside. I think it's a lot harder if your goal is not i mean obviously you wanna win but it's a very different system then then The regional leagues it feels like in terms of what the end goal is. Well caller rojo. Is there anything you to throw in here really quickly before we Obviously ended up being a kind of was just a coal take anyway but yeah i mean i thank you for and of making the point a little better than than i phrased it But yeah i just really wanna see more intentionally making coaches rate and i think that as you guys noted it doesn't seem as other as that but I'd love to see it any any shutouts. You wanna make shout out to peter done Good luck in so. Thank you so much. I appreciate okay mark. I was told by charlotte. I was told by sherman. It's not called playoffs. it's called midseason showdown are we. Are we not calling it playoffs at all. Because it's like it. It feels like it is a playoff situation right. Yeah bracket people get out. And they're out until the regular season commences a sounds like a playoff to me. I understand it's not called spring. Split playoffs called season showdown. I expect you will still hear people colloquially whatever the fuck calm playoffs because i'm so tired of colleague wanna call up the. Ms yeah maybe mss's okay playoffs. Yeah plus you get all the the the memes with playoff stuff. Let's take a quick break. Talk about alienware our sponsor for the show Really appreciate alienware sponsoring so much of what we do here and I know some of you might have seen this already in my outros. But hey if you are in canada you can now save ten percent off the code for years and years and years has only worked here in the us. And i'm like well head cover. So i went to anywhere and we figure it out. It is like a different part of alien worse. What took a little bit. I apologize for the delay. But you can now use travis off if you are in the great expanse to the north of us. I don't know there's a bunch of nicknames or candidate wherever all of them at the moment You can save ten percents off your order. Yeah tim tim in the chat. Who's canadian who's on run it every week which is sponsored by alienware who does run it. Every week he can now actually use the code to save ten percents. Congratulations tim. you can now finally get the product at a discount that you've been promoting doing that. Show thank you so much to alienware for to talking about my hair rate for some reason thank you so much alienware for sponsoring the show and so much of what we do here. I really appreciate that and Congratulations to our canadians. Are now having the opportunity to type my name into a discount form. When you're checking out with your alienware product. Thank you mark off to grab the next caller Let's see we got some subs which i appreciated Olive loaf martin one. Oh one jacked or fifty three just in the fresh chief. I don't know how to see her name. But appreciate official sin and thais keep i think a couple more people we. We have seen nine blaine here. Our next caller blaine where you calling from. I'm calling from north vernon indiana indiana. Well what do you want to talk about on the show. I take is t. L. will not make finals. And not only that i think. Tm will knock them into the losers racket and then knock them out of that racket as well. Okay so so so give me operations to. What's the path all right so given schedule that. We've all seen it's going to happen next week. He is going to beat t l just because of the in a circle of suck okay. 'cause they have the head to head right. Yeah so like t. Lbc nine but tsn be steel. So just give it on stats here. Dsm is the skurdal to tlc terminator. Right the fuck. Did you call the water team enter so anyway all right so continue basically gonna happen is someone that had head cloud nine hundred thieves. I would hope so and then that would bring them down to the loosest racket. Who does te'o play. Mark in the losers bracket is Dig i'd have to look at that. Bracket i g okay. The job of i'm showing bit sorry. Continue i'm not sure how that would go. But so you assume l. beats whoever they face which is presumably. Eeg based off. What peterson because if if that happened cloud nine would face a sandwich cloud nine. I think has one head head right right. But but t t l has to order. It's for -til to face. Gsm again they have to face they have to beat whoever they face right which would be. I'm not sure how that might play out okay. But if they did face up again in the lower bracket i think tsn would just knock them down again. because i won't say that deals not nice kryptonite. But if i never faces them. They won't have to deal with it right. We're we're deep into bracket policy. Yes tolliday. i like this cold up because admitted this season is one to one versus every other plastic makes a big that have one in sixty child so he just wanted to go to the regular season. Matchups could the every single. Yeah yeah i just wanted to hear your take on it. Well so i thought no offense caller but when i thought we pulled you you're going to have some like we'll tsm. Does this real good. And i think jensen's been bad this splits. There's amid mismatch or something. I thought you were going to give me some in game stuff to dig into. But you kinda just went like here. Were their heads to heads. The split in the playoffs will play out exactly the same if you look at the games together though. Yeah kind of these. Do you feel like tsm. Naturally kanter's t. l. Besides the the record caller. I mean yeah to against him and i know i know you keep referencing the records i. I say it wasn't close but like i think if they went to a best in. Tsm's able to put together at least two. Oh i think they can pull up that last one. Okay do you have is it. What about the matchup. Besides the record do you think. Means that t ellis is weaker like do you think. For instance that buni has faris number. Or do you think now okay. So what about that. What about that. Matchup is top and jungle. It'd be pretty shaky for the tsm side. But i think other than that. It would be pretty pretty good for you. Okay so you think. Csm has bought an mid. And that's where they're gonna come through right market okay over doing okay. So let's set aside the record because it's if we all use the record that this is a an valuable arguments you know it's like well. Yeah that's how how played up previously so Mark and and pierre. I don't know what he wants to go. I will t l lose two years. I mean it's a it's a decent argument right like if if. Tsm is stronger than they can. Just bring 'em out twice. And i know peter that might have some unfortunate conclusions for you or implications but curious. What you both think yet gopher. Let's switch it up. You go i I mean if if you believe the is going to be jensen. He believe that Muscle gonna beat tycoon jet. Which is something that you can believe as an individual and i can see the occupants depending on what statue onto in what kind of aspects of the game than this is possible that it can help adding. It doesn't necessarily mean that that i'll mock oh travis with agree but like the i mean we all know how important if you believe the To stop them so how ballpit always meant to be Than yeah yeah i. We talked about this a lot in the dive. Today i did predict t. l. there but it was actually hard for me just because t elle's mid to late has been kind of shaky with some of the tax coal decisions With the way his jumped in died Quite a few times And so i don't think tm. I mean there was the dignity game where they had that huge blunder. But i feel like they usually don't huge blunders in the mid to late game lot comsumer more scaling focused and so i. I don't think it's i'm still going to predict yell. Probably but i. I can see where. Tsm wins and it's it's probably not lean like i don't think poe slams jensen. I don't really think in wa- suddenly turned into monsters and slam core and tactical. But i think tsl's early game which is the best in the league. Statistically and i think if you just look at how they move around the map and stuff. It's pretty good will probably get leased versus gm over the course of the series but if they don't shore up there pretty bad decision making sometimes just individual mistakes Then i can see a world where. Tm comes back. Tsm usually punishes people. If they have that they're and setups they did it. All split long to two teams if if a team went for someone baron and actually ended up. Tsm's pocket a superior raising his hand. You want to interject i would. I couldn't think of a team that had balancers. Oh yeah. I wasn't going to name anyone but yeah i think that's probably the way that i see. Csm winning the series if it does happen but i'm gonna generally towards the team that i think has better early game. we've seen a higher peak aditya. Tlc me already through. Lock in stuff like that. And i think they just have generally better players in most positions Which is why. I'm going to all right well. I don't blame if you have a counter for mark there or if you want to break down why he's wrong i really can't i really don't have one Reality is there anything. You want to say Before you go onto the next caller no chat out. Travis in the boys alienware and game fuel. Thank you so much for the call on. Thank you for the shout out so we really appreciate that no problem you do. I love becker shows this take and that's all he's gonna talk about if you trying trying to redirect he's like no two. Oh that's it. Yeah peter's version of of soft lame. You know he's like if there's a world where you think this is going to happen. You know that's that's your prerogative to think that way And maybe that will happen it. Okay marcus after. Grab the next person. Thank you to see our simba. Opec fan for gifting sub to tim obt sm fan for gifting sub to command attack and little sleepy for the prime Peter have you always wanted to coach. In in north america down wants to catch in every major region. So i've i've collected almost enough just have to try to the coaching career. hot Three hundred not easy. The last one who tried things did not go well for him. Fortunately he demanded his stomach stuff. Pretty pretty pony now. I wasn't talking about him. When i was talking about this past offseason. Hashes here hash where you calling from. Leesburg virginia shadows. My boy steve. Your boy steve. What do you want to talk about on the show. So basically senile will get to Finals but the caveat being like there the way to get there is could be a little bit a little more unconventional unconventional. Okay so how unconventional what. Way after winning against one hundred thieves they will end up losing. I'm losing against t. l. So i'm already saying that t. l. It's gonna win against a style and then they're gonna climb. They're on their way back up to finals. Okay so you think that they'll then sorry the do things they win or losing -til again in the finals. I'd say it'll be a a close match considering now they have an idea of off t. l. after losing against them. But i think it'd be a close match. But i do think senile. We're probably take it okay. So they lose the first time and then they rematch in the finals. Yep why do you think they lose to. T. e. t. l. In the first situation well so of course as we saw in the regular season we saw is pretty much clear that there was a lot of. There's still some growing pains that on-scene experiencing of course was i m t Most recently they basically just gave away the barren windy should've just clearly just committed to it and just run away as soon as knocked her an ultimate odds are say altered into it and it just they just walked out instead of just committed to it even though they kind of inherently won the fight overall. It's still something that they should have just Just just just dr guns too and and you can see a lot of ender. Games have been really over. Even if they're winning their gains hasn't been really convincing to satan to say the least gotcha Will mark you want to start off on this one. I mean. I don't know if i want to get into the weeds of they win this time. But then lose this time the win again. Warns against hundred t. yeah. I haven't pretty heavily against hundred thieves. I think that they're probably the favorite for me. The through playoffs right now. I don't worry too much about some of the losses. They suffered in the regular season. I think they were experimenting. Quite a bit with their drops with The five range comp and stuff like that which are pretty difficult to pull off. And i think that their individual levels haven't dropped a lot of that stuff was like. Oh you didn't black. The right person this one time or your your didn't force them through the traps of caitlin and victor gravity field stuff like those mistakes. I think are a lot more champs specific than just like player. Like i feel like i've seen tactical miss position a bunch for example of of a player that i think isn't necessarily playing great right now. It's like i don't i don't think nine i'm worried about medicine. Feels like a suits them pretty well. I think that they have great players in every single position. One that you would point to would be fudge as like the. Oh he's a liability. But i think they've done a lot better job integrating him. They can put them on weakside if they need to. And so when you go up against l. Presumably in the semifinals to the caller's point. We'll have to see what happens. Because i feel like that is kind of the biggest question marks still but that aside i think they match up pretty well everyone pound for pound in the playoffs. I would think is. I would guess that you would think mark that they win. That t. l. match because you have t l. beating. Tsm you said that you think is probably the favorite for the not a couple of weeks away. Let's not talk about that. Let's watch best to five before we get there. Okay okay pena. I'm just said to. Him listening. Really puzzled because i don't understand how they're gonna get to play 'em again when he just beat them in the market but i guess in a world in world with we have intonations your facility catches on fire or there's a fire alarm going off and you have to run across the street here do you think is the strongest team right now I think it's the way any works the shiites it's very very much dependent i think so teams have advantages against teams. I don't think it's always the teams that have won two zero But i think there are some teams in the league. That kamat beat see nypd. Why do you think that is so matchup dependent this year Because i think that teams haven't had enough time to adopt because there's need because there's three competitive games week right. The season's only six weeks long looking doesn't come people may say lockouts with i mean. Blessed team didn't have their football stadiums. people's adapted bringing coaching. Stop playing stuff. It takes off the timer. That means it. It's really hard to ulta sophistications different styles into your black So it becomes a lot about lock. The magic johnson. The how much how much it allows you to adopt. I think the system gives stigmatize A massive monitoring going to say the. Eg will go to go to light in. I m cited. What i will say is that the teams are the this weekend. Have my sweet ends. Four days scrimmage me thirteen days we can like boot camp. We can Nico with baby for goes with fayed all the chiefs all that kind of thing who help us in. Its matching go pay. You played the upper bracket of the euro three to four days to get your shit together against the team that place that has thirteen days scripts have nine days on you. What are you. it's it's it's great. You've been helping. They will have watched you typist by. It's really it's not. It's not necessarily batty's that's for the the loud noise. Just everyone hurt by the way it was like. What am i on my bed. That wasn't you stream alert that wasn't muted and somebody sent so many. I don't know how that happened. Because i didn't even see anyway. Sorry continue i hope. Sorry yeah. I was agreeing that like the whole scouting angle to game to watch them play their best to five while you just spend the first week training general stuff whether it's exploring comps or working on specific things in the second week you're like okay and how we saw them play and lose. Let's see if we can pick those kinds of things apart or what. We want to adapt from it so it is. I think a little weird to to have that level of advantage. I came how it was done last year when we talk about how spring was different last year. And i said i thought they were three days in a row and i thought that gave the teams waiting less time. It was one team with play on saturday early friday and then they would play on sunday again or something so the team waiting razz told me everything is exactly the same twitter its chat and then and then because he said that everyone else followed along and mocked me so i might be wrong. I'm just gonna go. Look someone else filled for time while i look and see if i'm actually seen well peter or do you expect to see an upset given what you were just talking about with the extra time like th as in. Do you think that there will be some surprises. Because of sort of this weird advantage that the low bracket teams get and of course the geography As sears point there is a there is with. Which is the. I would be shocked. Let's say each in the to me. Fluffed the lines complete in most mckesson said. I would be shocked even though i would consider. That's eight hundred club. Nine tail to be better than emotional aspect. I would be shocked if both the teams that went into the racket. Got up even though. I think that they are better right. Just because of how the how the system works. I think it faces teams in the racket. Much more so call mark. So i was sorta right. The first weekend was more compressed. It was the fourth fifth and then the next two games or the seventh of the so. There's like a random gap day in the six or something but it wasn't like a full week whereas whereas this time all because they had to make up for the week that we missed because of covid because remember we skip a week in the middle of spring split and so what they did was they crammed in. They had they had to fill for that extra week in. So that's why they did it where i think they had matches on like Wednesday and thursday. And then they i think they had like a captain anyways. We figured out. So that's that is a very different such a set of circumstances so to be. I think i think this is one way that the any system is better than the ease because they you have to play by the the second weekend especially in. The usa system is horrendous like no team in e you manage to win from the low bracket except that the only teams Any games it was always the high seat going through because you have so few days in that second become that you can go from having to testify into having to play to five with one day rest which is the worst possible if you have no dates than you. Can you can use the adrenaline to to get you through the next day. But if you have one day you you're too tired to like have really productive scrimmage. You cannot swim but the nobody active. And if you have arrestee than you lose a lot of the And that useful that happen so this system where you get a full week. Well caller think we've talked a lot about the set of circumstances you call in amount cloud nine center. Is there anything you want to say before we move onto thanks caller Basically shut out alier shadow game. Feel shuttle to travis mark and peter done go. Good luck in your games Peter i wish you the best best of luck and i'll see guys. Maybe next week. If i if i ended up putting something stupid for take for good will thank you so much for the clay right. Thank you okay. Mark is off to grab the next car. I okay so the alert that came through and the reason it was a muted was because it was it was like a patron pledge like i said pledged twenty dollars. I haven't had my patriot for like. I don't know close to three years now so i i didn't get an email message so i don't i don't know it must have been like a weird bugs streamlines doesn't even show like a a thing that on the other hand no deck gifted thirty subs having previously gifted like. I think another ten and another seven so close to fifty. Maybe they've they've done fifty today but either way thank you so much i will Try to get to those a little. Bit off red factor. Three's here red factor where you calling from. Hey how's it going. I'm calling from new york city new york new york city new york house new york city a pretty good A lot better. Than since last time. I calvin so that yeah well. What do you to talk about on the show right. This is a take. And i would like to hear peter's thoughts about it I before. I say i would like to apologize to papa. Smithian the chat know that this hurts me in my core as a fan take is as follows. I think some day is a perfect example of na dubbing a potentially star players edge. I watch peter in his podcast with dom and he spoke about how the the regional meta sometimes incentivizes play patterns. The hamper growth had a discussion about bluffing. And this is the only explanation that i have found for some days track record. There was a time in previous splits where somebody was literally carrying the teams corpse across the finish line. I think it was twenty twenty spring but everything blurs and then he f- he kind of fill out a form in the playoffs and they got kicked out. Oh three He randomly reverts back to this form where he exerts pressure but doesn't seem to have that fight or clutch factor policy in the chat says. Go fuck yourself caller. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Papa said never apologized for takes takes her good. I was always going to clarify that. I just really like the idea. Of very i just see it. More as like a kind of like a parent who's like gifted child started hanging out with a bad crowd the nfl folks and it's just like pretend take so much talent. We just ruined the okay so go ahead potential counterpoint. Which is so i don. What's going on behind the scenes. But maybe he thinks that this object is actually really good so he doesn't have to wrestle whereas all night plus officers hundred thieves. Maybe he didn't have the same confidence in this debate carry here. He's like you know. I can rely on up. I can rely on the goes up. Staple i don't have to smash affari right. The teamsters gonna win. If i even with joe vega even within your something about the site so so. Maybe it's a buckle confidence in his team But to me as somebody who really loves aggressive players have aggressively and will encourage my place to go aggressive even Impact to go really aggressive at times this year to be. I think it's a shame because of that's the kind of the kind of big letters that i like to see but it doesn't necessarily have to mean that he's got two liter right. It could be because his team he has open its misty a can go both ways we call it without seeing i will say it's probably one of those feels bad when you know. You're juggler clear top bought. There's clear bought to topped you get dove on the wave and killed look bought. Your juggler dies trying to contest grump. And you're just like all right. Go next fat. yeah. I don't like again. I'm just a viewer right. I don't break above platz. I don't have the insight or not like is to discern everything but i don't blame that on sundays. I've seen what he can do right like. I've seen him literally. Throw a dead team into wins. And it's like. I want to unlock that. But it's been so many years and we haven't consistently got him that like. I have no explanation for that. And obviously we're never going to know what happens behind the scenes but i you know i would like to hear peter. Saker mark stake. Travis can yeah i would love to hear. I don't wanna ask you two hundred percent. Repeat himself from dom show but Just like the broader point even removed a little bit maybe from the someday example so said the point. The point was basically that When you come to north america the type of game played that you need. In order to be successful. North america different from another regions because for instance it was used as compared to europe where europe your your rankings applies based on how much people you need in europe. Everyone is very high novel. So your advantage. Your optus gained for free. You don't get free lady faces you don't get i mean you do. Because maybe maybe judges get free. Vorster's whereas in north america you don't have to work is hard for those edges so so you can You don't need to play in the edges much especially if you you're stroke you will talk. I'm so so that was the the also Academy people remember focus to baltra negative plays so the people that looked really good in academy or have a really strong narrative about the people that tend to play safer on because people aren't going to look at that and say play they're gonna say look at that time when he messed up and manage how and dove will consistency which is kind of not what you need if you ultimately successful like if you wanna be up so it's not about the a paraphrase the debate saudi if if it doesn't make that budget consents but i spent like five minutes talking about Somebody in that second but basically you know that. There's lots of reasons why you choose that you don't need found the right Maybe it's you do it anymore. In this case i don't think it is. It can also be because the people have the ability to do it more. Sometimes you see that there are players who need to play on the edge more It back in that can be democracy. Really good i mean i can give yourself you noise in two thousand and nineteen kind of really played on the edge. You pick his assassins you just go in. Tries won't be night everything but then in twenty twenty when shadow came in and humans the guy who had who could only do the stuff because he was a rookie humanoid kind of dialed it back. You pay the control majors. He played more people still remember his answer. But they were stricken twenty nine hundred twenty twenty twenty s. They were in two thousand nineteen because he doubted back so he can go both ways on. I would say a as a player who has historically been one of the best players in the entire world I would love to see back in that form on because it will push to to to know that he has to work how to push offer in to be the best. So i love it when they pay placed by liberal That's absolutely this is not a halt tape. I dunno It can be either direction. It doesn't just have to be that. He he coptic could be the choosing box. Do you do you okay. So in this situation would be. He's choosing not to because he thinks that the team should play through the playmakers on that team should be like fbi or rail or closer. Right peter or yahoo. He doesn't think he needs to right. Because like maybe if you're in a really bad team if you'll really good player with really bad team you may think after bumpy nine every single bit by us meters us whereas if you have confidence in your your teammates maybe maybe you think okay. These guys play this way. Will disguise super super aggressive right. He's battled replay Me but i bet playing defensive so i will take the defensive button and let you know. Fbi basic progressively will close the place. progressively humphries wants to play it for for the For the emphasis. If you were coaching hundred t would you be like yo someday. I want you to play a rasa like go forward. Obviously i'm not trying to pitch me in a position where needed i will tell you that if you put me in charge of any team with any amount of last. I'm telling you about for me my spears. It's never should you buy aggressive. It's when should you play. So which is. I never told you. Played risk of might play aggressive in. And that's that's that's purely to. The i love i love. I think it was so if you were coaching the shy you'd be like i need to go more aggressive man aggressive enough. You know that a bit like the thing where he teepee back into the lane he dies at he knows the job is still is is helping the beta fish it out and then he just at the size of the second type Rightly with score aggressive affected sekiguchi. Pto talent you can it up late when you purchase away. Yeah i like the the broader point even remove something. Because i think is something i also want to offer before starting to before move off the point i also want to offer some data points to peter right. Like he's saying that he's choosing not to but there's some things that are standard whether you're weak side or strong site which is like i feel like he's leaning is not as crisp like for example farhi and about him but it seemed to be pretty clear consensus that despite being in such a week team he was like the top like toppling player in dc. And i don't know if i can say that if somebody didn't have. Fbi didn't have food didn't have closer Day he would look like someday of the past. It's possible top batsman north america's about. It's it's must. I think your point right but like it's show maybe maybe you can save the interactions with the individual states. Not not as good but the question is you know he's gone from. I feel so vast who is who's Douglas season. it wasn't be media's for a bit and then it was contract was on contracts contracts in high volume to a chat saying. Hello hope you'll decide. Cochise was into a chat side destroy Agreed saint i don did 'cause i can't zucchini and chances. He's in your team bro. I thought contract with like a really talked about in destroying mother does this year for which may be may be navy for instance. He feels that if he spent Holding setting up opportunities than they don't be taken advantage because i definitely hundred dive. Tall definitely seen them off in the lock. Yeah so i mean it's lucky copied them It's really hard to judge i mean received by golden. I always liked that. I was like i hope so too. Yeah i was gonna say the broader point that like because they don't really know necessarily why something's happening so much as he can say. Here's the symptoms. Don't know the cause exactly and so you know the lack of aggressive. Na play for a period of time. i don't you know. I can't tell you like last year. I was losing my shit that no one played any aggressive counter picks on red side and we just like default it's a tank versus tank and like conches got six percent solo q. Win rate highest presence champion the fucking meta and in north america. We don't play in like. Is that player saying that. Is that coaches. You know exactly why. Sometimes you see a lack of aggressive campaign styles or like in game decision. Making i i know but i ruled ever. I'd just say twenty twenty yukon top lane. Not being that up. Till i'm dead nearly like you just aren't as a region them. I just baffled. My imagine like zere just came like got reworked and he was six percent win rate in midland. None of your fucking mid lehner's played him. See you lose your mind unforgivable. Sin of north america marks wine was not faking kong and twenty twenty and i by the way. I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I just love that. A- it's i mean it's a consistent problem. Top layer specifically to point out but h trucks was also went when hr reworked play him. When victor top was broken. We didn't plan like any time. There's an aggressive toppling champion. You can be sure that north america first period was not playing. But i think there are a lot better this year Whether that's the players the coaches. I don't know who turned it around but a bringing players from other regions topping red factor. Anything you wanna shut out before we go to quick break. Yeah most definitely. I wanna shout out travis for the content mark for being into content. I follow your paycheck back. That was the thing. oh shit that's unreal egeria but at least as u. s. and other people in seeing Thank you peter. For being recent podcast. I am loving your your presence on your takes. Shout out to anywhere. Last time i was here was near black friday. I ended up getting a to forty hertz monitor now my my old feeble boomer is can see the crisp to forty hertz refresh rate and you know what else can help you out with boomer senses game feel. Been trying out there watermelon flavor. They got it down. Pat so grab yourself can try out very good. Thank you so much. Red factor for the call. All right speaking of game fuel. We're gonna take a quick break to talk about game fuel. I i've last time we were on the show or less than we did. The show We i think they're site game field dot com which you can go check out in the exclamation mark game feel and youtube. We can go look in the description. they were out of stock on like everything and again. I like to think it's because of it man and having nothing to do with like courage or heels But they've restocked and they're now available in california so I i think some are still like some of the flavors might still be out of stock so if some issues You can use that amazon link but Which is in the description as well and also if you do excellent smart game fill on the chat but you can also Hit notify me when available. Which i think is kind of nice. It's a feature that they have on their website But really do appreciate everybody who's been tweeting and shouting them out Shouting me out and all that. It's been really helpful. I promessi they've noticed it Be sure to check out. Game field dot com and then use code travis because when you check out with co travis you save five percents on your order of mountain dew game fuel and that is very much appreciated So thank you so much to everybody who goes and does that and thank you to gain feel for sponsoring the show. Appreciate all the support and again We didn't have. I know california was having issues ordering before it looks like it's been resolved so be sure if you're in california go check ah check it out if you missed it last time or if you went there yet thank you so much infield for sponsoring the show all right on to the next caller. Thank know debt gift. Another sub two free booze you antigen opium fad gifted us up to empire and contracts than Peru chew with the prime crypto Kristen for six months. Irish pigs Baudour michael for twenty nine months For kobe thanks for the next few months a little sleepy. Obt assem fan give to our got. Those and the note actress. Giving out twelve sub. Seven subs thirty subs. My god really appreciate Thank you so much. And it looks like we have a caller here The caller got here before mark. Which i thought was funny Gaudy is here. Gowdy boy where are you calling from. I'm calling from saint cloud minnesota and What do you want to talk about on the show. So my take is. That deathly should get the award for most improved player. This split I think that he's been super consistent for eg The man simply does not die And he still has the third best. Dpma eighty so. I i know a lot of people have been talking about dignity players like fake and so ligo but i really think that definitely has come into his own. And he's just been a rock in the bali and for this team. And if there's one thing that i know what i'm looking for an abc and my solo key games it's just consistency and knowing that the guy can carry if he has a solid lining phase and. I think that he's done that for this team. Before we get into the peter take on us. Agrees mark Is do you think neo should be eligible for this. Given like he was previously. I think he can't be rookie right well. Neo might be rookie. Because he only played two games as asta in so i think he might qualify for rookie regardless like sligo might be another example of someone who could win it. I think tom had a tweet about it. Where like just in terms of raw level of difference like during his time on hundred use legal had posted some like the worst mid lane stats and games in elsia history or something like doing fine. I don't think you have to present as a world beater anything. But he's like doing well you know. And that is a huge turnaround from when most lcs fans last If you did see it depends like kind of how you're you're rating this. Like are you including his academy games where he was clearly a lot better than what he had shown in the lcs then like maybe. He's not that improved. But i think you know i would. I would do it by. Lcs appearances and in that case sligo has has time. whereas i don't think it definitely i would ever say was amongst the worst performing eighty carries ever like. I don't think he ever had that that. Low of a bottom. To compare to. And i'm not trying to blame sligo here. I'm just saying that. In terms of output in the games like sligo was usually losing pretty hard so definitely i think he's improved for sure but i don't i don't know if it's he's he's kind of i don't it just feels like a big difference in in the last time that i saw sleet than the last time i saw definitely on the stage. Emily says played four games. Twenty-nine optic twenty four okay. I mean news new company come. Kansas must honestly honestly. I'm very confused about Fakers people kept telling me that this guy was like a dry copes of his like he was going to be such a hobby weight that he was going to drag everyone into the gutter. So i was like holy moly to be making say something i mean. Obviously like i don't think definitely could be the most improved if he was never like unsustainable got a little bit blog. There to for something. I mean to to me. Mike i need to. I don't want to the cupboard I would i would. I would say to the And i don't think it's close because i think he has been the with arguably the most responsible for dignitary students is on the season From coming out from new york because he was the one who is people high insanity in politics coming in. And i think that he's completely blown the mouth towards like easy. He's been super good. He should've come from one thousand But i never understood. I've ever disturbed hatred Just i think he definitely got a bit better ability. Compensate me beth. I think deputies definitely was a now. you're just. He has a better team rapid so now he can now he strikes show. I mean so. I i think definitely i think has been a good plan. I said that he has a group of things that he still used to walk on. He's not finished yet but would just say the heat. He's he's had a career where he has played with a lot of these had. He's had a career where he's played with a lot of rough circumstances. Let's say he hasn't had the Tactical you can say tattoos coming in. You know he's he's on into the right. Timely has the best unite. here has diamond encrusted. He is the one percent whereas definitely said definitely is like has had to grind his way up that the fight is way out. He's he's going to all of these difficult situations. I respect and maybe i think the full that over the course of several years back maybe to compared to the loss was in and he see you you could push him that he should definitely talked about in that category but said he go has to be the number. I just just in so much. He's from got gotti boy. Why do you think definitely sucks so much. I hadn't really thought about if perspective on You it's it's funny in order to convince us that your take is right. You need to convince us that he sucked more. We'll say i die hard fan and back when he played for c nine for a little bit even though i mean obviously like him coming in and like sneaky being gone and whatnot just like anything was going to be worse so it just maybe it just had a bad taste in my mouth and honestly like i just never felt like this guy had like that. Carry mentality. I always felt like he was just kind of sitting there. And i feel like on e. g. at least like what peter was talking about like he's influencing his players to play more aggressively and things like that And i think that this team is just a better fit for him and that improvement. I guess i've just seen so maybe it's just a team. I don't know but i was curious. Just kinda like on how. He has grown as a player just in the time that he's been with e. g. gelo g so i was the biggest thing that surprised me when i joined. Eg was aggressive impact likes to play the game. He's really comes. This is a team that wants to fight. And that's nothing reputation g. the death knows he's got eight ball around in those teams uk since karen. But they're going in and sometimes you know you need somebody to clean up because if you'll bring in as well then you're not getting field because they kill the enemy so say so exciting. I think it's a good. It's a good. It's a good fit for him Honesty that he has to be able to play both sides community plus he conscious ecologist defeating the whole the time of whether we'll see how that but i think i think that he stopped. Well the season you know. He's over for even month revisions. I'm pretty happy. Happy with with where we are very good. Why thank you so much. Gotti i I appreciate the raising the conversation on this. Because i think You know. obviously we didn't talk too much about that before so thank you is there. Is there anything you shut up. Yeah shots game. Fuel alienware travis. Honestly elsie spent a little sad put. You've really kept an interesting. So i appreciate all your content mark and peter And then just. Lastly i wanna shout. The ndsu league legends club. Think so much for the call thanks. Hey mark before you grab. Oh oh i was gonna say i'm looking forward to the you're talking about preparing cheeses and i'm excited to see definitely. I'm reading or make a reappearance in playoffs. I brought that up in my interview with definitely to bring the hammer dinger Twenty nine hundred. Jesus besides mark. I'm guessing the last call isn't about this and because we were talking about so we go. I just want to steal a couple of minutes I what do what do you think of the idea of an petering and pollen. But do we think that digs. Coaching staff has just coaches split. I mean they. That team over performed expectations so much And i know like the the ended up in fifth but we're constantly taking games off people it was. It was really close that they ended up getting fifth and I know i was thinking about this legal stuff and all that and the something i've had in my mind but i thought we hadn't really talked about this on the show. I felt like it was something worth worth talking about. Said directly charts. I can yes i mean. I don't think there's any discussion like you like who who in talking instead gsa Tlc nine right because because those people expected them to be like seventeen to one sixteen to and then all right. I mean that are they good but not as far. They're not the level of people thought with the strength of so. Then the question is who also. And i think the Even gonna make the argument right. Like i mean. It's yeah i think digs probably have heavy favorite. Tsm they looked pretty rough through their first weekend. but i think at least in terms of expected level from the talent that was acquired second is good. I think is better than most people expected which is why they can probably be in the conversation. I think most people had them powering third or fourth so like it. It is higher but dig. We we did this on. The dive went through our our power rankings for the preseason and then we do like every position each expectation each team his office like minus. Appoint or whatever in dig. Just fucking murdered us. We all had dig like eighth or ninth in their fifth and so like it. Just it just wrecked are also. I feel like it's so hard to go by standings too because like they were so close right like the distance between second and fifth in this. The situation is like not well the way it normally is. Yeah and to peter's point like okay t. l. is third day. We all thought they should be second or first. Why is that oh well they may be underperformed a little bit you know and i think coaches necessarily deserve the blame but that's just of how it how it goes in the ecosystem where you don't know what's going on behind the scene so you kinda just have to paint with broad strokes the argument i could see for Experimental right. But you can't you. Don't get points veteran experimenting and you shouldn't exceptions right. But the the argument i could see. Tsm is the team had a rough looking at a rough first. Two weeks of the season and people were saying steve mistrial and they got their stuff together and they found a way to plan they found a way to with and even some of their losses like when they lost the dignifies us. They they should let me just should get so i could. I could see the argument for But it's to me it's dsm. We'll take a seat in the kamikaze. Platypus playing devil's advocate. And saying if you subtract the games where dig. Just were kind of randomly given the win. What is their their score. Look like do. I get to subtract the games for. Tsm ran got parents from their opponents. Who should have gotten the baron. We get so if with every single teams wins and losses. Maybe you do whatever you want. Markets your vote. Yeah let's see what you mean though. It's just like you end up in this weird world of all these hypotheticals okay kamikaze. Platypus says at least. Read the whole statement travis. So just so that. I'm not paraphrasing. The struggle icy with just outright giving it to dick staff is like how many of their games were the other team giving away win if we subtract those games. And what is there standing like. You can see or you can devil's advocate any team into being coach of the split at candidate there. I said the full statement didn't their feet their own point of But you know. I gave produce veterans. A team either wins the game. They lose that us. You keep aol. Tv right. there's been times by the way we're that's not the case where where there was a bug in rather than remaking. Yeah steve. that's what i said. Look like in the game. I n t maple. When's the gave coaching staff travis. So so so. That's a team like the there's two ways again to go right. The team eight wins the game and they play begins you whether they outplayed your team. Canada t be throws its members they love and sometimes being that caps the flow is like impose a that it goes. Both ways right depends to me. Play in the southern makes it easy for tips to throw them one. But i think also it means the teams that people generally up the rating while ve eiji. I think edgy going into the playoffs. Bike have games the opponent. I the win. The game abuse again right buses winning the game will losing the game because again so so so there is something to be right arm. That i i have a question. Have you ever heard of john madden. I know he has really like a popular competes get. I'm really better. that's that's a. He has a football game. American football game but john madden is a. He was a coach and then became a commentator and he was really well known for saying like blindingly obvious things like team that scores more points generally wins the game. And i see a future. You're becomes the league of legends. John shaw all. I will say that other coach like your team has agency either win the game. The game is is a good thing. That's all right. Let's grab the next caller Marcus already off. thank you to. Its cuyler time to a wine. No deck gift of the sub to our last caller gaudy boy and then good job schwartzchild. Thank you for the prime. I am not the. Nsa is here Nsa where you calling from. I'm calling from her. Said california said california. What do you want to talk about on the show I won't talk about how each providing one of the better faces in the region if they're tending to compete internationally the ways that the sole lanes obviously impact injuries. Uk are constantly applying pressure to their opponents. Honest much more similar to what the is gonna face internationally in regions like year correa and china and everyone knows how good impact is. But i think he's gone under appreciated us shortly before we thought repeater again. We'll just be like yeah. I agree What do you think of all the criticism. You say underappreciated. But he's been actually criticized a ton people say a everything from like he's the worst mid lehner to. He's just entering all the time they calm. Jacuzzi you. Sometimes i so i what do what do you say to the critics who have said that as not doing well I state look this damage. Numbers in this elsia Split he is five hundred and seventy. Dm he has the highest gst at ten minutes and his constantly making plays that few to any other top line of probably wouldn't make and i think that should be appreciated. If you're actually going to compete internationally you should want people who are going to push the limits and actually limit test this gotcha well again before we get to peter mark. What do you think of this. I mean Even just on a play style level. I i would probably agree with it to peterson by more aggressive and some of the things we talked about in the episode. Even if you don't think like the best team. I think that they are challenging. People and trying to push things There are some areas. Where i wish you know. They were a little bit more consistent on But overall i mean. I do like the approach that the rosser seems to have all right peter as was this. What you're trying to do. Is it actually like who. Who cares if we go to world if we lose in group stage so let's make sure that if we actually get there we. We have the aggression we need. I really liked. School is up as point the so. I think impacting gay have been playing really really aggressive. Sometimes you will play to arrested. It's funny that whenever people talk about Talk about the times when he told us twice against legal advice to the tau add not about time where he's fifty against pucks with Pets pick Around the right like the fact that he's pushing its vaulted you these getting these massive leaves again some of the best Midlanders in the league and impacted by obviously for playground. But i think that. I think that jews uk. I don't think is blah. Like i think i think he he plays people play inter i i know. Impact accident Once enough lift ib. The i think she's who can consistently been the best bathing maddalena in the league. And i i don't think even but you can say that there are the things in the rest of the game that egypt's tv to up on a yukon Over the blame to those things on zika but some some of it is on justin k but some of it is obvious. But if you're going to look at pure stats like you do like the occupant off being being. Mvp you have to consider together. And i think that's only good for the region if you have price wounding two statin same If you don't just look at champion matchups but you consider how much he's been roaming ways numbers off because he's been voting really vide- law and also out. Hi his matchup is so If two different that you can have this stocks to how voting they need versus the other deep but this also stats for how well you elating in a matchup verses. How how how far ahead you should be matchup. Because everyone in the world right may not match up and if you look at those two statues. Uk's many happy mark is it. Undisputed that jessica as the best lehner or or mid leaner in lane the split. I mean using the metrics that talking about yes i was just looking at the silicon i knew zika was tied for first in the league previously. What was interesting. Though is i didn't realize perks. Heads six of his solo kills pre fifteen minutes whereas zika only has three there but kids nine solo kills. A lot of them are coming inside lane situations later on the game which was Looked at it. He's number one in. The league is the highest four percent league. He's doing it with a pretty middling jungle Proximity said seoul kills are up. There kills a sister up. Their purchase is kinda close to in a number of these. I think in that regard. Maybe you could argue it back and forth a little bit. That perks is probably the second best mid lehner and i would want to do a deep dive because they are. They're pretty comparable in most of of their stats. And even just when. I think about their game play they both are more aggressive. They both do something. You're like. whoa dude. I don't know about that like you. Really a game for perks just to give an example that everyone can think of perks has done a number of israel like oh my god So i would say probably between those two For for raw leaning It's either just. Uk perks Mark do you think that jews zika like zika seems to be one of the players that i've seen so many people trash on You know like it's similar even like when realme was on one hundred t for a long time or like. There's there's some of these players that like the community and some of the pundits tend to gravitate towards to trash on Do you think that with giuseppe. It's like to like i an ignorant plans watching the. I don't know how much of that is deserved. I mean obviously setting aside like personal attacks and stuff. How much of the criticism deserved a portion of it. I'd say because. I think one of the things we were talking about this. I keep seeing sharma diaper also. I saw it in media co stream talking about like they were being critical of someday. A little bit said in and they were talking about how he seems like. It's a free pass. When he's performing and i think the ways in which people underperformed can vary quite a bit Some players underperformance does not catch your eye. And i would say that this split the jensen has been someone who i think has performed to his own level but he's not like running it down and so like when you look at his team. In particular tax bill gets a lot of the the flames. Like a why is team liquid not dominating the standings this split and you look at like the time he gets stunned honor or does this dumb stuff. But i think there's other times where johnston is just not benefactor i think people gravitate towards the big blowup mistakes and under performances. Then they look at the player who just like to pierce point takes a matchup that should dominate and goes even in the lane or something you know like if you're taking draft resources and changing the way the cop place to to theoretically have pressure and be taking plates or whatever it is and you're not doing that that's not as notable as when zika takes lucian and dashes into a turret and kills himself twice in a row tap when the games this split and i think it makes it a lot easier for people to harp on those of players with when they're bad moments look like that versus a player. Who sometimes the confidence to do with the pick is supposed to do or or exploit an opening when he could have done it. So i would say the criticism fridges. Uk is often warranted in the respect. That like yeah. He does make a big big mistakes. That really catch your eye. But i think there's there's other players who are making worse mistakes. You could argue that. It's just not as as notable for example. I will say that no matter how faint you know you're gonna have bumble g awful But but i think. I can really like the. The task game has kind of affected people's perception of him too much. I think he's a look for you. Know the what are they could be. Mvp leagues like all pro. Yeah oprah right. I think he's a mock over. But i'm way vacuum is is Is documents at every like you profess woken system the vine but if he doesn't even make pro them that's sweet mark. Are you going to vote for zouk eight. You're all pro. Because otherwise peter done might lose faith and year. I haven't thought about it For midland at all. I would say that juke. Npr to that. I was leaning towards the third was pretty open. And maybe it is. I haven't honestly like. I said i haven't even thought about my mvp third yet. So i don't know. Maybe maybe even if i ended up making the right decision peter's mind i have a feeling that he will be disappointed in the region radio. I mean i've seen power rankings. That put like jesse gears like eight in the lien on leaning a my code power rankings permits this split. I don't think we got to. I think it was two compressive a season. I mean somebody. Somebody linked me like a power Who did it but it was like. They had all like four nine two eight inch. But i i can't remember wessel maybe just lenka. Yeah i don't. I don't think i saw it either. Unfortunately i would love to have seen it as perks. Guaranteed to be on all pro mark mark. Do you remember any other play. But lucien game it's a blur between wendy's games. Were in lock in or not. 'cause there was was there zoe game. I'm trying to remember. was that a locking game. There is a play that also stands out from from zoe game. That was super ridiculous. I can't remember zucca. Have a big Peter adjusting mass. But did you. Did he have a big zoe. Game during after walking like during the regular season ending empire says it was lock investing blocking maybe because he's that even proves my point with zika calling me out like that is that like the big moments when he does like that zoe game they just get like implanted into your brain. Because because it's just it just sticks out to you because to me i have been consistent every game but that this split at least so this we have elliott who up Academy i think this this like how how these things victim no month academy is actually suspects process but what it will say a lot of things that have been counted inside on the fact. That was a situation where i know you're gonna look at the them up but like begins columbine begin we lost felon where he takes him on tower such tease him. I collapsed while the killing of he takes a towel and then we can attend one. Get like full temple. The math we get we take the jungle comes on the backside and people in the first federal. I own my coaches regain out here. And he's into the whole game but actually if you're sending five people to kill and waking objectives find great i love but i will say that the that the if you play this game i wish people would remember more. His like rice gaping the Or is echo game. Which was i thought. Really good too with the second enough another good example of this so i also quickly. The deaths per game in june gay is second in the league. Desperate game and only one worse is ablaze olive. And i think that's another thing that people will over gravitate towards you could say for a negative stat when you say okay. He's died the second most times of any midland league clearly not consistent right but you can also say well some players arcadia players and that's something you would never say about gay and but the katie a player insult or or nagging of that is something that is harder to reinforce than just saying. Hey big number. I don't like Which is another thing that i think for even myself when you start checking your biases. It's like yeah. That's something that i'm probably biased. Towards which is the big bad number that i see you have all this being katie What all being like a busy gives them the tap right like aggressive last night. You know and you've got to have a balance in the team And obviously it's obvious who's been wrestling team. Who's cleaning by. But you call a team that has nobody playing right which is funny when you talk about katie players because that was the big rub on definitely for a long time. That people held against him. Oh he's the katie. A player but you have one player like case willing to start the fights in a lotta ways and then you have the players willing to like. Oh looks like a good one. I'll i'll follow up clean up. You know like that is to your point the balance that teams need to find just a quick question since we're talking about millionaires. We were talking a little bit about all pro so mark. Pugh jensen jitsu k. Perks like it's an interesting situation right because one of those can't make into your pro. I'm just challenge you on that and see you know you think zika probably up there. Yeah well i think it's especially we're too because eventually again to the thing where we're talking about the play styles and i think like the person i'm comparing with like poe and sages. Uk are pretty far apart in the spectrum of champion pool role in the team. Play style like we generally scaling mejia's and doesn't play aggressively through phase a ton unless it's like during sort out rooms are speaking sneeze coordinating with his team. Where's uk like we were talking about. The solar kills will pushes. Own advantages quite aggressively. Whereas p only has two solo kills the whole split but he's playing scaling majors and his role. His team is to do that. So am i gonna cry. Like when you start comparing. It's it starts to be a little apples oranges and at some point. You just pick pick one that you kinda thought was better and to be like i said i news faith in in the region. It's not the echo thing you can justify potential right like. I think you can make a of the other. Three guys should be that but he just chose the you'll valuing safety you're valuing like feeling you're joe valuing you're valuing all the things that i i maybe maybe about time that's all. It was better when you make pick. Yeah i think. I don't know it's it's tough because you also on the outside never have an idea of what's going on a in the team for why people play this way or what they what. They're trying to do all right Nsa is there anything that you would like to shine out before we close out the show. Sorry i know that we kind of took over your topic and went along with it but hopefully Out yeah shut out. Tim seven hewson Sorry if i'm mispronouncing that he doesn't really great content on academy and he runs a great stats code. Oracle's luxuriance go. Check him out as well as running. Run it thank god. I was worried. Iran how everything he does except for the show. He does with me Yeah thanks shadow. I think tim is great and Doesn't get enough attention. So i appreciate Yeah everybody go rach run it on my channel and then afterwards he check out the other stuff tempt us. Thanks so much for the call all right. that is the show Mark what do you got Nothing nothing doing really. You got nothing. Check out my my twitter to see a cute Bakeries looking cafe setup at my house my apartment that's Okay well go check. Go check out mark's twitter so you can see stuff it's great really appreciate Peter what do you got for us. What do you wanna shut out. What do you want to plug. Just say thank you for having me on and go checkout the Amateur capi proving. Second that's going on about now. John last tolman is getting all it it's been a fantastic tournaments of Modes going supports you'd affirmation on the to the nato listen. Didn't you say that there is going to be. There is a potential matchup between the two. It happened today. The matchup was not the basis of the book is the saw. That's right. that's what it wasn't the greatest series. Yeah go watch. It proved grabs a great system divided. Put in place this year Giving damage the teams the entity to show level even people that didn't get the jobs amounts of scouts and say screw. You guys like you should pick me instead of you bet. Am i think it's a great initiative can be great In the future what scouts. I mean it's it's an interesting concept. You have there that people north america would be watching these games and scouting them for talent. I thought okay. So he's there at least Empire says scouse the scouts. Thank you so much peter. Thank you mark Of really appreciate as always the show enter. Peter thanks for coming on and best of luck and playoffs. Sorry mid season showdown for me. I've got some other stuff coming out this week. I did a bunch of interviews so go check those out They'll be on my channel this week. We have a run it coming where we are going to. I think i think. Tim is going to simulate a full like bracket essentially for all of midseason showdown where he's awesome stats to like basically pretend those are the stats that allow you to win. And then see what the whole bracket is and then we will be able to compare that against the results so completely unscientific and who knows if It will end up being anything. But how cool would it be if he gets it all right tune in to run it to find out But yeah thanks everyone. This has been hotline league episode. One sixty four.
The Odyssey Finale: Honey, I Trunk the Kids
"Yeah you wept. As he held the white fi love the soul of loyalty in his arms. Last joy warms the joy that shipwrecked sailors feel when they catch sight of the land. Poseidon struck instructor well rig ship on the open sea with gale winds and crushing walls of waves and only a few of swimming struggling out of the frothing served to reach the shore. Their bodies crusted with salt but buoy up with joy as they plant their feet on solid ground again. Spirit deadly fate so joyous now to see the side of her husband vivid in her gaze that her white arms embracing his neck would never for a moment. let him go magical That's what happens. Afterward is the magic. That's where it comes from guys. You have waited patiently but this is it. it's time this is the epa conclusion this is where of the odyssey odysseus goes on his odyssey. Finally we've been we've been teasing it this whole time but this time it's gonna make journey inward best in inboard. Journey is okay. Who doesn't let you off with a cliffhanger. Last time i did i was sneaky. He wasn't it wasn't we're like a when you're listening to a radio station. And they do those terrible teases and they're like what happens next to name stay on will be as what happened doesn't and he strings is bo. We'll we'll a knack now accepts it. I thought i thought it was pretty good. I don't know why you got. Hey yeah yeah jealous. Sorry recap and we're gonna hit it off all right so last episode odysseus meets with penelope and he's still disguised as the beggar and he. He got leads her along. That odysseus is alive that he has seen him and that he was coming back soon but melby doesn't want to hear any of it. She doesn't believe it this and that will they end up sleeping in separate beds. Obviously because she doesn't know what's her husband and in the morning she prays for death from artists odysseus. Here's or an feel sad. But she comes up with the idea that she's gonna use otis's bow to find a suitor. Whoever can string his bow and files fire a single ero through twelve ax ratings without hidden the sides or anything. We'll she will mary. Oh this about this like yeah. Let's do it so the next day it was like blown away. Forget dustin i had those awesome puns. You did how good so the next day they have the competition and none of the main can string the bow and they get frustrated. They try everything they try. Greeson it up. They try put an x. Of the fire to kind of warm it up make more pliable still. No one can string the bow. Well they're about the call today when odysseus picks up the bow and he strings it no problem and he fires one single ero through all twelve. The x ratings. And that's where we left you off. Destin's wonderful teaser. Yes i am such a t. I know it so we start book. Twenty two. the suitors are all in shock that this beggar just string the ball with these and fired an arrow through all twelve ax rings like it was no big thing and while antanus is in the middle of raising his cup. Do the beggar being able to do that. Odysseus fires another arrow through his throat. Yes killing him if he falls back and he's flailing around and then he dies and still. The suitors have no idea who he is like. Okay now i do. You know what you just did okay. You made a mistake pal. Yeah yeah you know at first the students gonna look like that just happen and then when it registers they still don't figure it out there like homeless with an accident. It's like you're in trouble now. That accident is gonna cost you and that was a big old pile of oopsy daisy. Yeah was why did you do that. So after that odysseus finally reveals himself. He's like it is i see is and you all are going to pay for what you've done here. Well you're a. Marcus tries to be slick and talk his way out of it. Talk their way out of it. I should say 'cause he raises his glass and he's like well throw this season. Well no no not quite. He's like well. You wanted to abolish the centers. Will you just have. It was all antanus antanus. Did everything not uh us. You should let us go and odysseus is like. Yeah you got you kind of forget. I've been here for a few days. I've been kind of undercover boss. Yeah i've seen everything going down and none of you. Megan outta he will through stools. Yeah still in hooves and you mess with my dog yup poor dog anyway. Odysseus exclaims that. None of them are going to get out alive. And you're a marcus is like all right. We'll then you're going to have to fight us so men throw the tables of that'll be our cover. And then he draws his sword runs out odysseus who has a bow and arrow and he fires another arrow in this. Hits your marcus right in the liver east. He's dead so now. The two the two leaders of the suitors are done and after that Amphibious charges odysseus from behind and telemacus runs through with a spear until lamarcus does one of. He doesn't wanna pull the spear out of him because he feels that will make him vulnerable to an attack so he tells me this. Hey i'm going to the army. I'm going to grab armor and spears and stuff and all right. I'll just pick off these dudes with the bow. All right cool. I got this. Yeah so telemakos runs armory. He grabs spears for himself. Odysseus a felonious and your mass and he brings them back they gear up and this been picking people off of the bow but now he's geared up. Well milan theus. He sees an opening so he runs toward the armory is and tell the mockus forgot the lock the army so it's open so alanthea's grabs all this armor and spears and stuff and takes to the suitors stupid son yup so when they see When they see them the suitors gearing up. Odysseus is like oh. It must be a handmade on the help them. That's my bad. I forgot to close the door. And that's actually kind of a pivotal moment. It is the entire theme of this whole play. Homer is a master. I talked about this in the elliott. About how he wraps things up in a nice little bow. So you'll see that in a couple in all of these closing instances where he it up. The the blame game has been going on dishes. Won't take blame for anything. He's done all of a sudden. Here's this perfect out. It's given to the character as i've gone. Yes stupid slaves. I mean come on man given out keys and stuff. he's like. Yeah no you know what you trust me. I know your dad but I i dropped the ball on this. Maybe smacked him. That didn't happen. That didn't happen because i mean kinda. Just in the middle of your smacks wanna destiny disappointed that you didn't read the line about how he has prepared. And it was ripped off his rags now naked. He leapt upon the threshold with his bow and quiver full of arrows and he tipped out in a rush before his feet and spoke. Playtime is over assured again towards another mark. No man has hit apollo. May i manage it. He stripped down naked. Did did he really say. Playtime is over. Because that's not my is in a different version. But the main point that i want point out is like oh this is is book as negative jumps up. And he's like play tom's over i'll have what she's had that even back then they had the one line. Maybe this is not one to let you feel like you could take his place emasculated. He's like you think that she was gonna want you after this. This is a man. This is the sacking of troy. The sacher penelope you may not those walls are secure. That's that's that's yeah that's how it went down. You know what. I wouldn't put it past. That is that is his wheelhouse soliloquy on them so so milan. 'thus goes back for round to grab more armor and stuff well. This time he's caught by you may as in florida's who time up at the behest of odysseus to torture later they don't kill them. They just hog time so then. They returned to odysseus until lamarcus in the battle begins. Now the suitors throw spears but none of their spears hit anything they miss but every time odysseus and his men throw spears they kill for four people. One spirit kills one person eventually. Tell him carr's does get a little scratch on his wrist and your may gets a little scratch on a shoulder but other than that. That's really the only wounds they suffered. They're just picking off the suitors and then athena shows up as a mentor and she encourages odysseus to keep slaying slam all but she doesn't partake at first because she wants to test odysseas until lamarcus strength well after a while of them to slaughtering the suitors theme is like all right that's enough and then she joins and then quickly over there quickly all slaughtered. Because she's a god. Yeah she likes her sword and everything afterward she's like. Yeah that's that's not. Sit in the book. But it's heavily implied. That's that's debatable. As well but i like it. So we'll roll with debatable. Means completely made up by neal's telling you the whole thing because it would be completely different over. Like i'm reading along with you. Neil and i just didn't are you talking bolero fun. Who can't even find him. Any listing important characters but yet odysseus has been replaced by him the entire time. It was in disguise. Fun fact everybody Oh this is another name for it. It's actually a bolero. That is some stuff you would do. I sailed my ship today. They like that Thanks sorry so back to the real story. So after all the well majeure i should say. Majority of the suitors are dead. The the guy that. I tried the bo- he was. He's like a priest or something of that nature and he class odysseus knees mercy and he tries to explain. He's like hey. I thought what the suitors were doing was terrible. I didn't partake in any of that. You should let me go. No dishes he replies with ya but you are perfectly willing with taking my wife away from my house. So you're just as guilty and runs through the neck stabs him in the neck with a sword and just remember. This was Naked and if you call probably armor on now that's news. Virginia does not specify. So okay man. i'm just saying supplicating. A very awkward position to be into a naked dude. Perhaps now definitely is remember. He's collapsed around the legs and he's looking up. He's got his neck exposed. You know i mean my site level of it. It is what it is. So after odysseus runs him through next famous the bard e begs odysseus to be spared because he actually didn't partake anything he was forced he. He was not a suitor. The suitors forced him to be there. And you know seeing and whatnot way. Decide i bring nothing to the table. Okay yeah until lamarcus interferes until deceased to let him and a meeting. who was the herald. The let those let them both live because they were not willing participants. They were forced to be there. They didn't want to be there. And odysseus happily obliges and let's both of them live so he is not completely cold is kind of a weird weird situation like especially for like our culture to imagine where is cool to kill the priest. But like you're like this guy's just a singer you don't you do. It was like yeah you singers. I got you. The senior wasn't particpating. The priests was participating. I'm just saying homer likes to do his own horn. He's like the bard lived because no one blames the bard because because society he's society loves barred need us to tell a story he said. Don't mess with us around at district and they will do. They will so now with the suitors dead. They take alanthea's out and cut off his nose and ears then they disembowel him and then out of anger they cut off his hands and feet so he's toast an and i feel like odysseus intentionally like that was his plan all along to have a special in from alanthea's because he seemed to be the one that talked the most mess to him so saved a special place for him next Directly is summoned. The old nurse to someone who owed issues and eh i. She's initially in shock over the amount of blood and viscera that's covering the hall and odysseus but odysseus is able to calm her down and ask her to bring all the handmaid's who supported the suitors to him. This is the most this parts cold. This is is cold blooded. And it's dope. Yeah code dishes. So out of the fifty handmaid's she gives twelve names. So twelve out of the fifty handmaid's supported the suitors. So she brings the those twelve out to the hall and they are made to remove the bodies. Clean the hall so they remove all the bodies and wash it down with sponges and watered completely. Clean it up. then afterwards. They're taken out and they're all home. Telemakos hangs a mall and keep in mind that the bodies that they're cleaning out those were their lovers. Yeah yes they are forced to clean up their lovers dead corpses in their blood and then they're in their guild taken out in hong so pretty brutal pretty brutal. All i can say about that then. Odysseus has rick fumigate. The hall was sofer and fire before fetching penelope to get the taint out to get to get all the the metallica gore smell out of the hall. That's my guess right. Think that's all book. Twenty two purifying and pretty cheery. Yeah so that's bowie. Yeah so clever. Thanks man i mean. I didn't write that. I gotta be honest. I looked him up. But i deliver them. Well yeah you do them justice. Thank you move around so braille so that brings the book. Twenty three am book. Twenty three starts with a going to penelope who by the way has slept through the entire slaughter. Because of fina and ricky awakes are up with news of a deceased being home in slaying. All the suitors now initiative initially penelope believes yuriko to have gone mad and she got a chastises her a little bit. Like you know if it was anybody else. I'd have them punish but since you're old i'm just gonna chalk it up to be being insane and have their nose could often. I'd wear it around the room. Yeah she doesn't say that. But that's probably paraphrasing so you originally like no i'm telling you it's him till markaz known the whole time and i knew when i wash his feet and it's all the score of the left but it was like whatever let's go down there and see what you're talking about. I was so exhausted from you. Guys always trying to show me odysseus so penelope. Kind of begrudgingly goes downstairs. And she just sits there. She doesn't sit biology. She sits away from him. She won't address them. She won't even look at him and because she skeptical. It's actually discus and this angers till lamarcus tillamook is like really mom. You gotta be the most cold hearted person ever your husband been gone for twenty years. Now here he is. And you're like whatevs. Yeah yeah i mean. This is not how i pictured are fairytale family reunion. Yeah let's face it. He's not he's not hard isn't thinking about him like dirty dancing lifting her above his head. You now patrick swayze style that now than saying that's what he was in i corner corner but odysseus probably wouldn't like it like stop learning mommy know that could be so to kind of call them till Donald deceased hasim go get the bard and the women have a big party you know have the bard seeing make a lot of noise like your likes the big celebration and that way. They won't arouse suspicion from outside the palace they just literally killed all the young nobleman of ithaca. It's not that they just killed the suitors. They killed all the noble heirs of ithaca because they are the suitors. He's so that presents a problem in itself floods. Yeah so now. All the parents are going to want retribution. So they got to keep this as low profile as possible for now. They're gonna their game. Plan is to do it like a big weekend at bernie's kind of thing like everybody's not really dead. They've got someone behind them. Moving them around with shades on. Yeah because sooner or later no one's gonna ever notice did foolproof. Plan him so. Penelope remain skeptical and believes the god is tricking her. And that's starting to upset odysseus now because she's just like how do i know you gene. It's not you your about your. And he's like all right. This is ridiculous. I want to go to bed coldhearted. Someone's right you thought he was going to say that he's like you're gold art and he's like i just wanna go to bed okay. I'll have your rick. Rick move the bridal bed now this is a trick because his bright obeyed cannot move it cannot they cannot she. Could only odysseus would know this which i mean. There's a plot hole in. That's just think too hard on. Yeah just just enjoy the ride. All right don't poke holes. Just enjoy their so. This is says woman. These are bitter words which you have said who set my bid elsewhere. A hard task that would be for one however skilled unless a god come and by his will senate with ease up on some other spot but among among men no living being even in his prime could lightly lifted for great token is carved into its curious frame. I built it no one else there. A thick leaves olive shrub inside the yard full grown and vigorous in girth much like a pillar round this. I formed my chamber. And i worked until it was done building it out of close at stones and roofing it over well framed in tight fitting doors. I added to it then. I locked the thick leaves. Olives crests cutting stem high up above the roots neatly skilfully. Smooth with my axe decides to the line. I kept all true to shape my post and with an auger. I all alone starting with this. I fashioned the bed till it was finished and i in laid it will with gold and silver and with ivory on it. I stretched a thong of oxide. Gay with purple. This is the token now. Tell i do not know whether the bed still stands their wife or whether somebody has said it elsewhere. Cutting the olive drunk. But i know that you will not if it is moved. Yeah you will not stand there. I just murdered a bunch of people. So basically what he's describing is. There's an olive tree growing through his house. The palestinian carved the bed out of the top portion at the stump. As part of it so in other words another man would have had to come in my bed and chop the tree down so mad about that. Secondly that's my bed. Thirdly i'm a hypocrite because i just got done banging quite a few goddesses but i turned them down for you did not turn them down to come home to. My bed moved right. And that's where is. He's being unnecessarily salty. Well after penelope. Here's this and she is ecstatic. And she knows it's truly husband and weeping li embraces him and that night they recount each other's tails and athena actually makes the night last long so they can you know talk pretty much. Neil thanks doing other stuff. But that's not implied bullets very heavily imply implied at all. Twenty years. what happens is when years away. They recount each other's tails and how odysseus must leave soon to make his offer to the gods on an island or men no not of oars and salty meat. I'm just saying in order to fill theresa's prophecy that was saying dustin told in book eleven. I'm just saying i'm ignoring you. All right listen to me. Then they fell asleep. You alleged. no it's not a lay recant. They recount the tales. Yeah odysseus tells her the his entire story. i'm just saying dustin and then he falls asleep. He's been away for twenty years. He's about ready to leave again. Yeah get your mind out of the gutter scumbag. What one of his own marvin gaye playing on. Let's get it on. let's get it on. I was gonna say it. Now we've got the episodes explicit my bed man. Where do you go through each. That's fair. no obviously. The bad is huge symbolic right dustin. Yeah okay don't really agree with me on that. It's it's the pillar of their marriage and her when her would sh- mike the unmovable bed where no means faithful news her unmovable faithfulness in their relationship that you know strip also so there's also some pretty cool about it to this is exactly where homer is tying things together so the coolest part at least to me. You guys may disagree because you may be like dustin. I don't know i'm joe. I'm gonna pretend that everyone is cool and the white bellerophon and they like me symbolism will you really are pretending so the really cool part about this is so this whole time this whole story. We've had to two stories going on. We've had the journey of odysseus trying to get home through everything. He's fighting cyclops. he's maybe having affairs. You know maybe not try hard at that point but it is later is all because you've got shipwrecked by poseidon. Because he blinded some cyclops and told him you know dr will smack but then the other part of the story is penelope who has faithfully waiting for them. So those are the two stories we have going on. What's at stake for it. And that the intro court that i read that that's the time when homer ties it all up and it's such a neat little bow. Because he hits them with that quote where that similarly whereas the the way that A man and a wife and how happy they are to see each other just like someone who's been shipwrecks so he's throwing in poseidon there but instead of making it you know because he starts off with you know he were. Dishes is crying himself and then he could have easily gone and finished the whole quote with with and she was happy to be with him but now he he has an end with penelope taking ownership of the quote and it's with she embraces her husband. And it's just little details that homer does the way he wraps things up. We saw it and troy with the way that achilles tux premium into bed. The same way that he plays back to previous books and he just has this cool way of doing it. And then this this whole book with the the bed seen i actually really liked the scene mainly because as we talked about with the scene episode before our big symbol is the olive tree. And it's very cool that this whole time athena has been as much a patriot of odysseus as she has been a penelope so this bed that is growing there and the olive tree is definitely a symbol of their their marriage. Whether or not you believe as doesn't refuses to believe it's the symbol of their stability in their relationship but it's cool there. He put that much detail into it that he had a palace built around this olive tree which it sounds like that's probably a plot hole to some people but you've got to keep in mind. All the trees live till like three hundred years. They don't die easily. They don't need water and they're very easy to keep alive their watering it. Well yeah that's true but They're very low maintenance and they're also very hard to kill. Yeah so there's actually a part of one of the most famous aspects of the peloponnesian war. The spartans thought that they could just show up into at our atika and Just completely destroy all of their trees but much to their horror. After hours of cutting down the trees came back in a couple of weeks and they're already sprout new new little apart. So you know. All the trees aren't easy to kill. So it's the perfect perfect scenario and i. I love the way that he wraps that up. So we're gonna get one last goodbye to i think. Is it next week where he says goodbye to his dad or is that in this book deal this next one so he gets to are not saying goodbye but he finally his dad. Yeah because After they fall asleep the next day odysseus until lamarcus leave for farm. Well they leave four odysseus farm but oh this is going to layer tease. I tell them okkas Your your maze. And felonious are gonna go deceives farm and they tell penelope they give her instructions not to leave her room or receive visitors. And then athena cloaks odysseus until lamarcus and the swineherd in the cowherd of town without being seen and that's all book twenty-three ins getting out of dodge they do but it's just the amount of detail that he puts into these books. I've decided a thousand times. Just because you know the difference between the myths that we tell before this book and how quick and like to the point they were and then just homers detail of. I'm going to keep this little thread line going but this isn't going to be the only story that's going. We'll come back to him later. And then booked twenty one. They're like oh yeah and by the way that was because of this and that had huge meaning. Boy blow boo. Mind blown mind bone. Thank you for saying exactly what i just say. So then we'll kick it off a book twenty four now. We're going to get a little change of scenery here at start about twenty four. It starts with hermes leading the souls of the suitors who are crying into the land of eighty s. Now they're agamemnon. Killys are talking to each other. About how lacklustre agamemnon. Death was compared to how dope achilles death was which is hilarious. It is because he's an arrow to the foot. Yeah he took an arrow to the foot. But agamemnon is like yeah. You died in battle at troy and the funeral was amazing. We had a huge pyre and people were riding chariots and full armor and the horses were armored and then your mom feet is came up and we had games in the gifts were from fetus through the winners of the games and they were gifts from the gods so it was it was a spectacle and then you know we took your ashes and gave him a fetus and then feta soaked your bones in all and wine and ate them as doesn't say that They became one but usually yeah. It was his big thing. And i get home and i'll get killed by my wife and her lover cool awesome. It was like yeah. Yeah that's oaks man. And then he loved off. But then agamemnon looks over and sees the suitors amphibian. Because he knew his father and he recognized him he was like. Hey what are what are so many noble young men doing here at the same time where you guys in a shipwreck or were you like bill. Somewhere and got ambushed. What happened well amphibian. He tries to blame it on penelope. He's like well. We're pretty much because penelope odysseas why she refuse to choose. She refused to choose. A new lover refuses send us away. Strongest long she made this ruse about making a tunic for layer dis for three or four years. And somehow we fell for that we go for that and then finally. We figured out that she was us and then we wouldn't leave and she would pick anybody and finally dishes showed up and killed us. All agamemnon. Man penelope sounds dope. Yeah i wish. I had a wife that faithful my wife kill me. He's like people will sing novi sprays forever because for loyalty now. We also have to remember that clean. Them is not the devil she did. Not just kill agamemnon. Because she found a new lover agamemnon burned their daughter as a sacrifice before. Going to troy. Whether it's not like oh jeez throat. I don't think he burned. I thought he did burner. I mean after thing. But i think he killed her with the as how they sacrificed well either way. She was on fire one point so clean. 'em nestor had motive. Penelope odysseus didn't murder any of their children before he left at least that we know of so. She doesn't have motive to do anything like that. So she is loyal and with that we come back to to the world of the living and odysseus arrives celebrities farm. And i don't. I don't know why he likes to do this. But he's like you know what i'm going to go in and i'm not gonna tell my dad that i'm odysseus so glad you were as exasperated by this. I'm just like reading. And i'm just like why do you have to be. I don't get it. It's got to be an ego dude. He's like. I just want to know what people think about me and let's see. Yeah you only only really know how people think about you when you're pretending to not be you and your son might be dead. Yeah so using you know if you're dead so he takes off his armor incomes in there and his dad looks you know. Prematurely aged from the grief is has died of grief. Yeah so he's like you love those loan and the world's farming so i'm someone's string along a little more. It's so ridiculous. How much she misses his son but he was like. Are you lear ds. I'm looking for your son. i'm a friend. We met five years ago and you know he told me lived in ethica so i came here to visit him and layer. Like oh my son is dead and he starts crying five years. That's how long it's been. He must be dead like Shouldn't have picked five. Should've said one. Yeah so then. Once layer starts crying this is like. Oh i'm just messing around ad. It's me you know. Gives them a hug and everything. And of course lear doesn't believe him at first was like no. It's me look at. The scar shows them scar on his foot. From the bore layer it is you and they hogan rejoice in its. It's mary. they also had like some memory to that he tells them back. Yeah yeah you're right about the trees. S all the trees planted in which ones were his because it was like peach trees and stuff like that. Yeah yeah yeah you're right. He knew all the trees that he had planted when he was younger and name them. That one's barky bar that one's stroke going so after they rejoice they leave layer to farm and they go to a deceased farm and they're tell lamarcus your mays and Flotillas forgot his name there for second. They're cooking launch. And also there with them is a dolly's now dolly is is the father of millennials and milan 'thus and they're both dead and i don't know it doesn't say if he knows this but he's like having lunch with them and his like got their back so i don't know if he knows what happened to his kids but what is meanwhile this is going on came anyway. The goddess rumor goes through towns spreading word of the suitors demise. And obviously this is going to reach the parents and the parents retrieve the bodies which i mean at this point. Is it really rumor. I guess you should just be called truth at this point right. I should have sent someone man with some facts. Rumors are for unproven. But those guys are dead. They are there. They're dead anyone's ever been dead so the parents retrieve the bodies and then they hold an assembly about what to do. Now you pip this. Who is antony father. He wants revenge. And he's exclaiming that they should take their revenge on odysseus and his in lamarcus but as he simply is going on a female and meeting you know the ones that were spared they stumble upon the meeting and they say they're like hey the suitors with deserve. And it's mainly your fault as parents because you're letting them act fool they would still be alive if you pull the reins in and then let them do what they did right so if anyone should be to blame it's you guys and like whoa. Whoa well half half the assemblies. Like he's right. I knew kind of yeah of well. Can't argue with that. But then You pit this. He rallied the other half and they're like no nonsense. We're awesome parents. Let's go kill odysseus rabble rabble our our our so they gear up and they had to overseas this farm. Now fina goes to zeus and zeus. Are you going to let. Are you going to step in. You know all this happened but then you're gonna let the end users like a. This is your thing. Yeah if you want to help them go help them. This is this is all you. I don't care so avenue. So i told i'm gonna tell you. I hope aside and you want to drop a volcano on their heads due in june alone seriously stocks. Asta upbringing your problems to me. I'm sitting here scope and new women ruin it. Yeah i'm john. I'm troll and right now i'm on the hunt so fina comes down to skies as mentor. Oregon and as the suitor are not the suitors parents approach. Odysseus throws a spear ankles. You pick this. And all the odysseus descendants layer dis odysseus and telemacus. They're like they're kinda pumped because hey all three generations were about to all fight together as awesome. Well they probably would end up killing all the suitors parents but athena steps in and she's like all right enough's enough everybody's going to have peace and you're going to recognize diseases. The king which is absolutely hilarious. Because i'm just saying to the beginning of this part of the book when all the suitors come to the world. Can you imagine being that one guy who's constantly looking over like waiting for everyone else like so fight so wait. She stopped at after. I got hit with us. Beer awesome great so glad that we got that resolved after i died right perfect. Yeah and it's kinda imply that she kind of makes the rest of the parents. Forget the tragedy athena does yeah and then they all just accept odysseus king an pieces restore the book. Twenty-four itself isn't a very popular book because it's very anticlimactic was not just anticlimactic. But people think that it's an add on book because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense because in an ad on this whole time we've been told that there's no suitors fathers and all of a sudden twenty four. They're they're also point because they all went to troy is also than the at. The very beginning of the books are of the this book. I keep saying book. It's probably gets confusing. I'll just start referring to him. This chapters beginning of win. Odysseus goes to the underworld. The ghost can't speak unless they were served a certain type of blood. Yeah they're not served this blood they can just talk also. They didn't talk to each other before they didn't even acknowledge each other. Now all of a sudden they do acknowledge each other to get the point across. I don't know saves a little weird. I see where you go because it doesn't really tie in. Yep it's just because if it ended on twenty three. I people wouldn't have closure so someone's like i wanna i wanna close your. He didn't even see his daddy. Yeah yeah because you're right now that you say it. It doesn't really stack up. Not a whole lot of it makes sense. Learn a lot. Just look twenty three. I mean look twenty. Four was all right now book. Twenty-three is where it's at. But i mean the iliad kind of ended in a similar fashion. I mean there wasn't like gaping holes like look twenty four but it was just kind of like and this is the ending. Yeah i mean twenty. Three ended perfectly because aren't apple. Twenty but troy that all right right. Just have an aneurysm but choi perfectly because it was never about the trojan war so it makes sense that it ends with achilles accepting his humanity the the ending with odysseus telling penelope about the tale of his his journey makes sense as the ending. Because zack should be the ending. That's it's a book of tales spinner of many of many stories so it fits does does right and for the people at home. They're probably like well you know. Does he tell her the whole truth. He does actually. He does tell about how he had has. He had some goddesses and people were seeing clips. He spills the whole bean. She's cool with it. she is and i i. actually. I didn't think about this until i actually i. I heard someone say this This professor vander maiden she brought up you have to think about it from her point of view he saying you know what and also i had two goddesses that mortality make her husband came back to you and i came back to you and thank god. You didn't move that bad. Because i was about to regret it home because it was almost done. I'll swim back to calypso's office. Maybe we'll just teleport me. I'm not really sure how powers work. Neither she i mean she likes to stunt she does he likes to flick. So maybe she could giant eagle. Yeah in front of everybody. Exactly like that. So would you feel about the odyssey's homebrew brew mediocre. That's pretty good. I i really enjoyed it. Did you like the iliad or the odyssey more. I like the i did i liked. The ilia was good. Were the compassion that like actually got to read in the iliad. That was surprising to me because we only read experts in high school. I liked the tail of the odyssey. It was less like all over the place. Elliott was good. I missed our boy. Diabetes is lacking you see. The iliad had lot more moving pieces though. Green had a lot more characters to follow odyssey only had a handful and i like also the odyssey. Because i can see a lot of the inspiration for future stories. Yeah the first ever multiple stories at once once a flashback. You know like i. It's kinda crazy to think about how this is the first time it's been used perfectly. You know i. I don't know if i'd jews between i don't know 'cause i like them both but i'd have to go a little towards the iliad. 'cause there are a lot of dry parts in the odyssey and i feel like there's not as many dry parts in the iliad. The you know the subtleties of the autism. But you know sometimes you just want to be popping off. I can't wait for you to read the aeneid with us. read it read it. i'm gonna read it. We are going to read it. You're gonna read it we're gonna to have to. How are you going to tell the story. Justin still hero needs. Do you just write it down for me. No joke here. That's that's just ri- have your perfect. What could go wrong right. I did enjoy both. But i do think that the i i had a lot of fun doing both both of these books as episodes. I thought it was pretty pretty fun. It was you'll like. I said i. I've never really read both like i knew about both on new the mythology behind both but never like deep dive. Do you know what i mean. Yes and having to do it for these episodes. It was pretty enjoyable. Yeah it was like. I said it was definitely kinda cool. 'cause like eye opening or eye poking you yeah yeah i just. I can't believe that they only have. You read the random. Flashback experts. i. It's just so weird. Looking back at the odyssey was from high school. Yeah to reading it. Now because i thought it was all just his journey and then i'm like you think these would be more pushed because they're kind of the catalyst for all storytelling. It feels like our modern storytelling. I should say the they all stem from the blueprint. He is the father of western literature. Yeah if if you want if you wanna make a book follow these guidelines. You know exactly what i'm saying. Yes yeah so. I don't know why that's not push harder. I'll know man. I don't i don't i don't know why i think that i do think too. I mean i know. I'm into greek mythology. So i maybe a little bias here what. I'm trying to be objective and like buff in the iliad. I'm taking the iliad all day. Wait you don't like i do. I do not. Yeah i don't either. They're i guess We'll have to talk a little bit about obviously legacy of homer. Oh yeah man i mean. He's he's all right now that we're coming to an end was i so one thing i kind of went on a little bit of journey to see the influence is on it and i started making a note card with all the people and then stopped. Because it's a lot of people gonna feel like multiple cards but now that we've come to the close of homer's epics it's important to remember how widespread his influence was. It's not just on the way that people tell the stories because even in the the story that we told with the aura style. You'll notice that that whole point has very similar situations that we see in this book where there is. The it's the continuing. The story with agamemnon and clytemnestra or the fact that the blood feud that we see at the end of this and we see it from anywhere from the tennessean's of the world to the shakespeare's to sophocles to euripides to escalates. To all of these wonderful authors that all go out and make a point to say that they're all just writing pieces of homer. And i think that's really kinda cool. It is cool. And i started to think about you. Know why. why is homer. So important to us. And i was like. Is it because of like the this stuff is important to us. And i was like now because no one. No one really cares about the battle of fate with achilles and no one really cares about. The battle that agamemnon goes through when he gets home with his wife or that. You know the the treachery of women you know that we've seen these images so much because hollywood goes in. They scour through homer they they. They need it for the plot. So we're we're kind of almost none of that. They can't be what it is. But what's been recycled for thousand. 'cause like the famous quotas. There's only one tale retold. Yeah and since homer is our first source. It's almost like everybody is homer. But so i started to think about it. If you go back you can see that the the epochs have been preserved the most and papyrus which means that these are the types of stories that civilizations across the world had decided and took the time to scribe took the time to hide it. Put it in a library for safekeeping. The the one that has the most is actually homers works so throughout civilizations probably hundreds to thousands and the western world he has been able to transcend across thousands of years. Still but you you kind of have to wonder to yourself why and i think that. What makes homer so amazing is instead of just writing a story about his current time. He wasn't writing about greece as he was alive. He was a writing about greece. That was in turmoil. Meal greece was in the collapse of the bronze age. He was writing about what they could be. So we're seeing this. This wonderful and unique perspective of what life could be the greek way he's saying if we followed these most these methods these morality codes. We can become something great. And i kinda cool is is what happened because places like athens places like sparta places like the the list goes on and on he was such a huge influence that he and his morality code is what became important to us. We see it and the aspects of good versus evil the role that we play for our society. Even see that today. You know in commercials you'll see like you know just like little things that are expectations that we owe our country or our nation for being able to live peacefully in and that's something that he introduces and it's probably the first written britain sources that have it so at known written sources. It's just the the fact that he gave us those. Those awesome and perfectly put. It's not just like listed. It's not like the ten commandments of culture or anything like that. It's just the way that he was able to convince an entire population that was going through some things you know. They're just rally even though while. I'm pretty sad that we're going to be moving on from homer and i'm going to miss them. The coolest part is knowing that no matter who we use as our sources moving forward. We're going to see homer in them. Yeah so i kinda. We'd done the sooner so i could have noticed. That the escalates. And you're using him as a reference. Because i i probably would have noticed a little bit quicker but now that i know i know that as we're going forward homers always gonna be there he's done but he's never far behind and anything that you do in western civilization. That's why he's the father that's truth backs. Yeah did you have anything else. You wanted to say before we sign off. No i think that's it man just that it was fun it was it was. Oh all right by the word. Yes yeah guys feel free to check out these books and give them read for yourself. You know we can only do so much justice. But it's not the same unless i mean you could always just ask me to retell it in my way i could get get the new version of neo inspired version you it there. Welcome guys if you guys have any guys that you guys want us to hit up. Just give us a like a We're going to probably start going back into the more obscure that we pass along the way since we already knocked out all the olympia. So thanks so much guys appreciate it do next time. Tanya dame am guest in santa now for the rest of my life. The burden justin like. Hey i'm justin. He wept as he held the wife. He loved the soul of loyalty and his arms at last joy. Warm as the joy that shipwrecked sailors meyer. Say that It's weird worded weird.
The Odyssey (Book XXII), by Homer
"Book twenty two of the odyssey by homer translated by samuel butler. This liberal vox recording is in the public domain. The odyssey book twenty two the killing of the suitors the meads who have misconducted themselves or made to cleanse the cloisters enter than hanged then ulysses tore off his rags and sprang onto the broad pavement with his bow and quiver full of arrows. He should the arrows on the ground at his feet and said the mighty contest is at an end i will now see whether apollo will vouchsafed to me to hit another mark which no man has yet hit on this. He aimed deadly arrow at antanus. Who was about to take a two handed gold cup to drink. His wine already had it in his hands. He had no thought of death. Who amongst all the revelers would think that one man however brave would stand alone among so many and kill him the arrow struck antanus in the throat and the point went clean through his neck so that he fell over and the cop drops from his hand. What a extreme of blood gushed from his nostrils. He kicked the table from him and upset the things on it. So that the bread and roasted meats were all soiled as they fell over onto the ground. The suitors were in an uproar when they saw that a man had been hit they in dismay one and all of them from their seats and looked everywhere toward the walls but there was neither shield nor spear and they rebuked ulysses very angrily. Stranger said they you shall pay for shooting people in this way you shall see no other contest you are doomed man who you have. Slain was the foremost youth in ithaca and the vulture shall devour you for having killed him thus they spoke for the thought that he had killed antony by mistake and did not receive. That death was hanging over the head of every one of them but ulysses glared at them and said dogs. Did you think that i should not come back from troy. You have wasted. My substance have forced my women servants to lie with you and have wooed my wife while i was still living. You have feared neither god nor man and now you shall die. They turned pale with fear as he spoke and every man looked roundabout to see whether he might fly for but he rimkus alone. Spoke if you are ulysses said he then what who have said is just we have done much wrong on your lands and in your house but antanus who was the head in front of the offending lies low already. It was all his doing. It was not that he wanted to marry penelope. He did not so much care about that. What he wanted was something quite different and jove has not vouchsafed to him. He wanted to kill your son and to be chief man in ithaca now therefore that he has met the death which was his. Do spare the lives of your people. We will make everything good among ourselves and pay you in full for all that we have eaten and drunk each one of shell pay. You will find worth twenty oxen and we'll keep on giving you gold and bronze till your heart is softened until we have done this. No one can complain. If you're being enraged against us ulysses again glared at him and said though you should give me all that you have in the world now and all that you ever shall have. I will not stay my hand till i have paid all of you in full. You must fight or flight for your lives and fly. Not a man of you shall. The heart sank as they heard him. But you're amicus again spoke saying my friends. This man will give us no quarter. He will stand where he is and shoot us down to the as killed every man among us let us show fight. Draw your swords and hold up the tables to shield you from his arrows. Let us have it him with a rush to drive him from the pavement and doorway. We can then get through into the town and raise such alarm as shall soon stay. He's shooting as he spoke. He drew his keen blade of broads. Sharpened on both sides and with a loud cries sprang towards ulysses but you disease instantly shot an arrow into his breast that caught him by the nipple and fixed itself in his liver. He dropped his sword and fell. Doubled up over his table. The cup and all the went over onto the ground as he smoked the earth with his forehead in the agonies of death and kick the stool with his feet until his eyes were closed in darkness. Then amphetamines drew his sword and made straight at ulysses to try and get him away from the door but telemacus was too quick for him and struck him from behind. The speier caught him between the shoulders and went right through his chest so that he fell heavily to the ground and struck the earth with his forehead then telemacus sprang away from him leaving his spear still in the body for he feared that if he stayed to draw it out. Some one of the akins might come up and hack at him with his sword or knock him down so he set off at a run and immediately was at his father's side then he said father. Let me bring you a shield to spears and abreast health for your temples. I will are myself as well. And we'll bring other armor for the swineherd and the stockman for we had better be armed run and fetch them answered ulysses while my arrows hold out or when i am alone they may get away from the door. Telemetry did his father said and went off to the storeroom where the army was kept. He chose four shields. Eight spears and four brass helmets with horsehair plumes. He brought them with all speed to his father and aren't himself. I while the stockman and the swineherd also put on their armor and took their places near ulysses meanwhile ulysses as long as his arrows lasted had been shooting the suitors one by one and they fell thick on one another when his gave out he said the boat to stand against the end wall of the house by the doorpost and hung a shield four hides thick about his shoulders on his company head. He said his helmet. Well wrought with a crest of horsehair that nodded menacingly above it and he grasped to redoubtable bronze shod spears. Now there was a trap door on the wall. What at one end of the payment. There was an exit leading to a narrow passage and this exit was closed. By a well-made door ulysses tougher leashes to stand by the door and guarded for only one person could attack it at a time but agile as shouted out. Cannot someone go up to the trap door and tell the people what's going on help would come at once and we should soon make an end of this man shooting. This may not be julius answer. Melania's the mouth of the narrow passage is dangerously near the entrance to the outer court. One brave man could prevent any number from getting in. But i know what i will do. I will bring you arms from the storeroom for. I am sure it is there that you disease. And his son have put them on this. The goatherd melania's went back. Passages to the storeroom disease house there. He chose twelve shields with as many helmets and spears and brought them back as fast as he could give them to. The suitors ulysses heart began to fail him when he saw the suitors putting on their armor and brandishing their spears he saw the greatness of the danger and said to telemacus. Some one of the women inside is helping the suit as against us or it may be millennials dilemmas answered. The fault. father is mine and mine. Only i left the storeroom door open and they have kept her sharper lookout than i have go. You may put the door to and see whether it is one of the women who is doing this. Or whether as i suspect it is m- alanthea's the son of dolly's thus did they converse. Meanwhile milan theus was again going to the store room to fetch more armor but the swineherd saw him and said to ulysses who was beside him ulysses. Noble son of tease. It is that scoundrel millennia just as we suspected. Who's going to the storeroom. Say shall i kill him. If i can get the better of him or shall i bring him here that you may take your own revenge for all the many wrongs that he has done in your house ulysses answered dilemmas and i will hold suitors. Check no matter what they do go back. Both of you and bind millennials hands and feet behind him. Throw him into the storeroom and make the door fast behind you then fascinating news about his body and string him close up to the rafters from a high bearing post that he may linger on in an agony. Thus did he speak and they did even as he had said. They went to the storeroom which they entered before anthea sodom them for. He was busy searching for arms in the innermost part of the room. So the two took their stand on either side of the door and waited by and by milan. Came out with a helmet in one hand and an old dry rotted shield in the other which had been born by lear- tease when he was young. But which had been long since thrown aside and the straps had become unsown on this the two seized him dragged him back by the hair and threw him struggling to the ground. They bend his hands and feet well behind his back and bound them tight with a painful bond. As you disease had told them then they faceted news about his body and strung him up from high pillar till he was close up to the rafters and over him. Did you then vaunt swineherd. You may us saying melendez you will pass the night on a soft bed as you deserve. You will know very well when morning comes from the streams of oceanic and. It is time for you to be driving in your goats for the suitors to feast on there. Then they left him in very cruel bondage and having put on their armor they closed the door behind them and went back to take their places. By the side of ulysses on the four men stood in the cloister fierce and full of very nevertheless those who are in the body of the court were still both grieve and many then jove's daughter. Minerva came up to them having assumed the voice and form of mentor. Uc's was glad when he saw her and said mentor. Lend me your help and forget not your old comrade nor the many good turns he has done you besides you are my age mate but all the time he felt sure it was minerva and the suitors from the other side raise important when they saw her jalil's was the first to reproach her mentor. He cried do not ulysses begun you deciding with him and fighting the suitors. This is what we will do. When we have killed these people father and son we will kill you. Two you pay for it with your head and when we have killed you we will take all you have indoors or out and bring it into a hodgepodge with you. Lucy's property we will not let your son's leaving your house nor your daughters nor shall your widow continued to live in the city of ethica. This made me nervous still more furious. So she scolded ulysses very angrily ulysses said she your strength and prowess or no longer what they were when you fought for nine long years among the trojans about the noble lady helen you killed many a man in those days and it was through your stratagem. That priem city was taken. How comes at that you are so lamentably less valley at now than you are in your own ground face to face with the suitors in your own house come on may goodfellow stand by my side and see how mentor son of. Ousemane's shall fight your foes and your kindnesses conferred upon him. But she would not give him full victory as yet for. She wished still further to prove his own prowess and that of his brave son so she flew up to one of the rafters in the roof of the cloister and sat upon it in the form of swallow. Meanwhile a gelius son of master. You rimas amphibian. Dima thomas zander and paula son of collector bore the brunt of the fight upon the suitor side of all those who are still fighting for their lives. They were by far the most valiant for the others had already fallen. Under the arrows of ulysses a jelly shouted to them and said my friends. He will soon have to leave off for mentor. Has gone away after having done nothing for him but bragg they are standing at the door is supported. Do not aim at him all at once but six of you. Throw your spears first and see if you cannot cover yourself with glory by killing him when he has fallen. We need not be uneasy about the others. They threw their spears as he made them. But minerva made them all of no effect. One hit the door post another against the door. The point shaft of another struck the wall and as soon as they hit avoided spears of the suitors ulysses said to his own men. My friends i should say to had better. Let drive into the middle of them. Are they will crown all the harm. They have done us. Killing us outright. They therefore aim straight in front of them and threw their spears ulysses killed demo. Thomas dilemmas eighties. You may lettuce. And while the stockman killed sander these all bit the dust and as the others drew back into a corner ulysses and his men rushed forward and regain their spears by drawing them from the bodies of the dead. The suitors now aimed a second time but again minerva either weapons for the most part without effect. One hit a bearing post of the cloister. Another went against the door while the pointed shaft of another struck. The wall still am feminine. Just took a piece of the top skin from often lama. His wrist and to sip is managed to graze. You may as his shoulder above his shield but the spear went on and fell to the ground then sees his men. Let drive into the crowd of suitors. Eulogies hit your demus dilemmas emphysema don and you may as politics after this stockman hit to sip us in the breast and taunted him saying foul mouth son of policies. Do not be so foolish as to talk. Wickedly another time but let heaven direct. Your speech for the guys are far stronger than men. I make you a present of this advice to repay you for the foot seas when he was begging about in his own house. The spoke the stockman and ulysses struck the son of dha master with a spear enclose. Fight while hit artists. Son of evan. In the belly and the dart went clean through him so that he fell forward full on his face upon the ground then minerva from her seat on the held up her deadly aegis and the hearts of the suitors quailed they fled to the other end of the court like a herd of cattle madden by the gadfly in early summer. When the days are at their longest as eagle beaked crook talent vultures from the mountain swoop down on the smaller birds that cowering flocks upon the ground and kill them for the kennedy their fight or fly an lookers on. Enjoy the sport. Even so did you liz. And his men fall upon the suitors and them on every side. They made a horrible groaning as the brains were being battered in and the ground seed with their blood. Ladies then caught the knees of ulysses and said ulysses i beseech you have mercy upon me in spare me. I have never wronged any of the women in your house. Either in word or deed and i tried to stop the others. I saw them but they would not listen. And now they are paying for their folly. I was there sacrificing priest. I shall die without having done anything to deserve. It and shelf got no. Thanks for all the good that i did. Ulysses looked sternly at him answered. If you were there sacrificing priest you must have prayed many a time that it might be long before i got home again and that you might marry my wife and have children by her. Therefore you shall die with these words. He picked up the sword that agilis had dropped when he was being killed in which was lying upon the ground then he struck ladies on the back of his neck so that his head fell rolling in the dust while he was yet speaking the minstrel femi- of son of turkey's he had been forced by the suitors to sing to them now tried to save his life. He was standing near towards the trap door and held his liar in his hand. He did not know whether to fly out of the cloister and sit down by the altar of jove that was in the outer court and on which both our and ulysses had offered up the thigh-bones of many inox or whether to go straight up to ulysses and embrace his knees but in the end he deemed it best to embrace z's knees so he laid his liar on the ground between the mixing bowl and the silver studded seat then going up to seize he caught hold of his knees and said ulysses i beseech you have mercy on me and spare me you will be sorry for it afterwards if you kill a bard who can sing both for gods and men as i can. I make all my lays myself and heaven visits me with every kind of inspiration. I would sing to you as though you were god. Do not therefore be in such a hurry to cut my head off your own son. Tell him 'cause we'll tell you that. I did not want to frequent your house and seeing to the suitors after their meals but they were too many and too strong for me so they made me tell him hurt him and at once went up to his father hold he cried. The man is guiltless. Do him no hurt. And we will spare meat into. Who is always good to me. When i was a boy unless felicia or you may as has already killed him or he has fallen in your way when you are raging about. The court meeting caught these words of telemacus for he was crouching under a seat beneath which he had hidden by covering himself up with a freshly flayed heffer side so he threw off the hyde. Went up to telemacus and laid hold of his knees here. I am my dear sir. Said he stay your hand therefore and tell your father or he will kill me in his rage against the suitors for having wasted his substance and been so foolishly. Disrespectful to yourself. Ulysses smiled at him and answered fear. Not telemacus has saved your life that you may know in future and tell other people how greatly better good deeds prosper than evil ones. Go therefore cloister into the our court and be out of the way of the slaughter you and the bard while i finish my work here inside. The pair went into the our record as fast as they could and sat down by jobs. Great altar looking fearfully round and still expecting that they would be killed then ulysses searched the whole court carefully over to see if anyone had managed to hide himself and was still living but he found them all lying in the dust and well touring in their blood. They were like fishes which fishermen had netted out of the sea and throw it upon the beach to like gasping for water till the heat of the sun makes an end of them even so the suitors lying all huddled up one against the other. Then you he said to telemacus. Call nurse uric leah. I have something to say to her. Dilemma went and knock at the door of the women's room. Make haste said he you old woman who have been set over all the other women in the house. Come outside by father wishes to speak to you. When you're a clear heard this. She on fastened the door of the women's room and came out following telemacus disease among the corpses spattered with blood and filth. Like a lion. That has just been devouring an ox and his breast and both cheeks were all bloody so that he's a fearful sight even so was ulysses besmirch from head to foot with gore when she saw all the corpses as such a quantity of blood. She was beginning to cry out for joy for she saw a great deed had been done but ulysses chapter old woman said he rejoice in silence. Restrain yourself and do not make any noise about it. It is an unholy thing to avant over dead men heavens doom and their own evil deeds have brought these men who destruction for they respected no man in the whole world neither rich nor poor who came near them and they have come to a bad end as punishment for their wickedness and folly. Now however tell me which of the women in the house have misconducted themselves and who are innocent. I will tell you the truth. My son answered uric leah. There are fifty women the house whom we teach to do things such as carding wool and all kinds of household work of these twelve in all have misbehaved and have been wanting in respect to me and also to penelope they showed no disrespect to dilemmas for he has only lately grown and his mother never permitted him to give orders to the female servants put. Let me go upstairs and tell your wife. All that has happened for some god has been sending her to sleep. Do not wake her yet answered ulysses but tell the women who have misconducted themselves to come to me. You're a clear left cloister to tell the women and make them come to ulysses in the meantime he called dilemma cus the stockman swineherd begin said he to remove the dead and make the women. Help you then get sponges and clean water to swell down the tables and seats when you have thirty cleanse the whole cloisters take the women into the space between the domed room and the wall of the outer court and run them through with your swords till the are quite dead and have forgotten all about love and the way in which they used to lie in secret with the suitors on this. The women came down in buddy weeping and wailing bitterly. I they carry the dead bodies out and prompt him up against one. Another in the gatehouse ulysses order them about and made them do their work quickly so they had to carry the bodies out when they had done. Has they cleaned all the tables and seats with sponges and water while dilemmas and the two other shoveled up the blood and dirt from the ground and the women carried it all away and put it out of doors. Then when the had made the whole place quite clean and orderly they took the women out and him in the narrow space between the wall of the domed room and that of the art so that they could not get away until ammika said to the other two. I shall not let these women dia clean death for. They were insolent to me and my mother and used to sleep with the suitors so saying he made a ships cable fast. Who one of the bering posts that supported the roof of the domed room and security all around the building at a good height lest any of the women's feet should touch the ground and as thrashes or doves beat against a net that has been set for them in a thick just as they were getting to their nest and a terrible fate. Awaits them even. So did the women have to put their heads in nueces one after the other and die most miserably. Their feet moved convulsively for awhile but not for very long as for milan theus. They took him through the cloister court. There they cut off his nose and his ears. They drew out his vitals and gave them to the dogs raw. And then in their fury they cut off his hands and his feet when they had done his they wash their hands and feet and went back into the house for all was now over and ulysses said to the dear old nursery kleya bring me sulfur which cleanses all pollution and fetch fire. Also that i may burn it and purify the cloisters go moreover until penelope to come here with her attendants and also all the maid servants that are in the house. All that you have said is true. Answered your clear but let me bring you some clean clothes a shirt and cloak to not keep these rags on your back any longer. It is not right. I like me afire replied ulysses. She brought the fire and sulfur as he had been her. And you thoroughly purified the cloisters and both the inner and outer courts. Then she went inside to call the women and tell them what had happened wherein they came from their apartment with torches in their hands and pressed round you disease to embrace him kissing his head and shoulders and taking hold of his hands. It made him feel as if he should like to weep for he remembered every one of them and of book twenty two.
Archegos Unwinds as S&P 500 Flirts with 4000
"Introducing the new verizon business unlimited plans for as low as thirty dollars per line with auto-pay get five g nationwide plus massive data capacity plus spam blocking features plus mix and match the right plans for your business. Get more of what you need. None of what you don't from verizon. The network businesses rely on five g. Nationwide available in eighteen hundred placebos visa. Five g devices monthly pricing with five less lines on biz unlimited start device payment smartphone purchase auto pay paper. Free billing required terms apply A us equity sore even as bond yields surged plus a deep dot. What's really going on with the argos liquidation. Hi i'm jack farley daily briefing. I have the pleasure of being joined by real visions max. Wiki and western nakimora. How're you doing guys doing well. We'll glad to hear it was what did he. Let's start off. What do you make of the price action today. The nasdaq surging. I think as of now we're talking about three forty pm. Two percent for the day that on a day when you s thirty year bond yields surge by four basis points. And by the way. If i didn't mention the s. and p. Five hundred is add another alzheimer's hot right below that four thousand level. What do you guys make kick off. You've got an interesting theory relating to arca goski. While i don't know if that's you know specifically at the four thousand But yeah i think that the luck. Sgx is going to be testing for thousand for some time this clearly. A very you know hard psychological resistance Actually had a call out since last may As it was going through Three thousand of my four and forty theory that People on the exchange are familiar with and that would be spx for with forty million unemployed simultaneously Looks like i'm almost there at the the s four thousand part probably there at the forty million unemployed partout for for real numbers But the yeah. Close that position Last week and i think that we're actually Topping out here for reasons tied to a u. d. j. p. y. But yet but you know i'm not. I'm not surprised that it's going to just bump up against this this level for for some time. That's your fourty prediction. It's it's slightly grim. Max i want to turn to you. What do you make of the action in the bond market today. One term one word. The stuck in my mind is unruly. That's the term that was used. Describe the sell off in bonds over the past month and a half Today however biden us from unrolling his additional stimulus infrastructure which is going to cost trillions in addition to the one twenty nine trillion stimulus bill. That was already past. was bond bonded. Alanthea's weren't out there in full force. When did you make the. Yeah well i think interesting thing about the plan was as much as the spending others tax exit go along with it but the spending i think takes place over like eight years and the tax hikes to pay for it. Take about fifteen years as a little bit of spending and the mismatch there. I think that will probably play itself out in the bond market. I don't pay too much attention to daily price swings in the bond market. I mean i do think that yields are probably headed higher. I don't think this trend is over for the meantime I mean the main thing that people have said it's gonna stop. This is gonna be yield curve. Control while i do think that there will probably be yield curve control at some point. I mean that the market is at all time highs. Why does the fed need to backstop the equity market with yogurt. I mean that was the whole reason that everybody's saying like they're going to step in they're gonna cap yields gonna crash the market while we're at all time highs so i don't really see that happening and in the same way that carly bassman said a steeper yield curve. Serves some policy goals to. It's good for the financial sector while at least if you're not wrapped up in the holy ghost thing it's good for the finance sector But i i just don't really see that that end. That people thought was happening coming at least at this moment in time smack. Thanks for teeing it up for me with the setup for western. I want a. I want you to explain the goes saga over the past since passed thursday. Because it's been a huge story that has gripped investors the news media the investing public alike. But i don't think you're on real vision with a daily briefing. We've really explained it. And i understand you. You've been following this very closely your something of You know you have a lot of experience working in that in that world of working with with hedge funds. What can you tell us about about your theory. Explain it for us. what's going on with arche. Does okay so start by saying that. My explanation is complete speculation. everybody's nobody knows anything about what's really happening. That's the whole point of this is that there's zero transparency so anything that i say it's pure discussing so just want you know literally every single thing i'm gonna say right so So we won't know the facts and likely we probably will never know the real facts but it will always are west. I just want to interrupt your gonna make some claims which i am glad that you tagged them beforehand but like many other people we do have some facts. We do. Have some charts. We do have some data on the various stocks that have tanked the the different banks. You're right that we don't have an exact picture of different banks exposure all. We have are rumors and rumors of rumors Which we're going to get into. But i think we have been sort of You know in the players paid we've been looking at the wall at the shadow puppets and we re not really has not yet going on. So i'm glad that you're one of the few people who admits that that being said Explain you know. I but people who don't really know what's going on a what did go on and then and then share your view sure So last week You saw viacom discovery. Daca shares a few of the You know Chinese listed in the us Like by do Ten music and so forth. They just took a massive massive sauce. Fifty percents or more. This is allegedly tied to a long short fundamental equity hedge fund based in the united states but with offices in asia specifically in korea Called goes in. It's a tiger cub Julian robertson And tigers management and this gentleman named bill long who had pleaded guilty for insider trading back into two thousand twelve It's his family office fond family office because of the fact that he's not allowed to take Outside capital This is why you already interrupt you. Just quickly tell you. What family opposites for a family office is a rich person's. Pa with out yeah. You're so rich that you don't have to work in the investment business anymore your retire it means. Yeah it means you don't have to exactly you don't have to You don't have clients. You don't have other people's money it's your money and therefore that actually gives you some some leeway you have you don't have a mandate to that you have to stick by You don't have to report anything to you now. me not gonna have any withdrawals and you don't have To most importantly disclosure is very different and that actually worked in In in the favor of this so basically what happened. Was these stocks plummeted like absolutely plummeted especially on friday of last week on massive massive volume And what happened is that the. They're insanely leveraged they were Margin call for about twenty billion and they cannot come up with margin and so they were forced sellers of this now by they. I don't mean argue the fun itself. They were obsessively pretty much done. As it was by they i mean the try brokers For which right now there are four of them there is nomura holdings this credit suisse. Bill and morgan stanley That are kind of public. And then yesterday what service was You f g from japan as well These are the people who ah prime broker. Basically your brokerage you know your. It's it's your poker If you're if you're a hedge fund right dick provide hedge fund concierge services that includes stock loan and things like that as well and also includes things like if you want to trade And if you don't want to necessarily say show up As a You know on a on a filing as enlarge holder of a company you work with your prime broker and you can trade on swap And this is what exactly This sets fund was doing what they were doing is they trade Otc on over the counter a on swap and a swap arrangement is basically in agreement to trade. Were you have exposure to whatever security. It is directionally but you don't actually own the shares of it you own a piece of paper that represents shares of it and the prime broker is actually the one who who owns the shares. So if you look at you know the top holders list you won't find them there even if they are a top because you'll just see The primary listen goldman sachs more sally number songs and so it's actually. This is what they were. This is how they were able to Put so much leverage without anybody knowing because they're each us they're using each prime broker as if they were kind of a you know Their their their primary prime broker and none of them have any idea about the other competitor. Brokers that that this this hedge fund was massive risk. They thought that they were all the ones who were they. Were getting a hundred percent. Ob of the flow and of the you know the contract for differences or determine turned swamps and when it came to light That you know this this. This fund was not able to meet their margin credit suisse and Nomura especially were were really in trouble and so they basically apparently what they did. Was they call all together. The prime brokers said listen. We need to have a very early unwind of these positions okay no like blasting the market scaring the market like this is where all go down together if this happens so let's all work together and that seemed to work for like a day and a half and then on friday In the morning Sometime between you know like open an lunchtime golden decides to blast the market and breach protocol and after that it was just every man for himself and you know like viacom shares dropped twenty plus percent on tax You know atv average daily volume And and they you know the the funding is done right now. It's not about the funding more. Now it's about the prime brokers now. It's about credit suisse meltdown. Nomura you know potentially getting a credit downgrade you know. These stocks are taking fifteen. Sixteen percent hits There are more bodies. I think in the prime brokerage world to yet the surface and so it's just a really big massive black hole. Nobody knows how much exposure they have. Nobody knows if they're actually done on winding the positions nobody knows what other hedge funds are also long these positions that definitely also at called. If you get a security that drops fifty percent within three. You know three days So this way more unknowns than knowns So that's that's you know that's basically the very general gist of it. We want the best of both worlds. We want a hybrid a smarter. Hybrid cloud approach with ibm helps retailers. Manage supply chains watson. I while predicting demands with ease the world is going hybrid with ibm visit ibm dot com slash hybrid cloud. So that sounds like you don't think that this is quite over. Not necessarily that. It's gonna cause a huge risk off event but that there still is some leverage to unwind on putin. What do you think the signs are of that. Why do you think that one thing that i've got my on is chart already put up. is the present appreciation since last thursday of the stocks that were in a arcade goes his books or they were extremely leveraged to the big players like by tencent music But you know the other ones like gs tech. Do viacom discovery was interesting. Interesting to me western. We haven't seen a real recovery in that. Yes we did have discovery class. B shares tremendous amount today. It's a very liquid stock with you. Know only a three hundred thousand shares or so Better even extent But the fact that we have that flatness you haven't had a rebound especially in this market. Where every bit excuse me. Every dip is to bought. There's there's no such thing as a crash anymore. What did you. What signs are you seeing. That makes you think that you know this could be systemic. And then also what do you make the flatness we've seen since the crash. You know they have recovered well. First of all This question of whether it's to stomach everything is steady. If you're if you're working with an institutional proper if you're working multiple institutional prime brokers you are working directly with counterparties in the system. It is a stunning. Whether it's systemic around is not the question the question is whether or not the systemic Listen nature of it becomes a massive problem or not but it is very much tied to the system this is why you know Like ralph put out a video in at the end of january about. It's called a perfect storm of risk. Basically awards insane amount of leverage in the system all over right following jeannie and all that and end as well as the risk of one-sided position of the market right and so what happens is so one sided is what moves a single stock or like an etf or basket of securities. Leveraged is what. I call the risk. Glue that connects the rest of the global system to otherwise relevant bet. Gone wrong right late. Subprime mortgage defaulting a two thousand. Seventeen thousand eight. You know that may. Nbs products toxic to be long. Let's nothing to do with your ford position. But the reason your position got cut fifty percent in one week in october. Two thousand eight was because of leverage around system. Lewis right so So what i'll say is that this is not happening. In isolation this is not a vacuum. You don't have these stocks just plummeted and these are not obscured small-cap stocks right. You don't have particularly viacom which got trist on glaspie shares at eighty five dollars on monday and you are now looking if you bought that you are now looking at a mark to market loss of down. What sixty percent in with that same week. These these do not have these are not without consequences So the reason that. I think that this is still ongoing is because The biggest overlook reason. I think is that today is Is japan's fiscal year. End japan has fiscal year end in march at the end of march so Starting tomorrow or i guess today for me Is a new year. So what you do. What you see is that in the last two weeks or so of march every year Jabs corporations do window-dressing. They you know they. They polish up balance sheets. They make everything. Look as you know as clean as possible for their For their investors and all that and then they come out with the by the way we have a two billion dollar loss order. Nomura came out on s- less sunday and then gave a very statement saying we're going to have a two billion dollar loss because of events is really detail thanks And then they were basically forced to come out with a little more detail. And then i was saying you Visa all these guys are next comes out three hundred million But the fact that they're coming out a day or two before Fiscal year end where they push it off to. Next year's earnings means that it's that much of an urgent urgent thing right And what i suspect is that there are other banks like mizuho who is an underwriter of that offering viacom at eighty five. They're very silent and they have exposure. Who knows who. Else who have exposure as well but japan fiscal year end. Being's right now you're not gonna get bad news reported and so there's bodies buried within that. So that's that's happening And until that passes through you know. I'm there's no way i'm gonna see a like an all fair sign right And then In addition to that I also think that in terms of was like Counterparty risk it all that kind of thing. Okay if you're talking about A long short equity fund that this is what they are they're not mandated be long shot every but they're not going to be there not a long only short positions but if you see viacom driving fifty percent and you know all that where are all of the short squeezed blowups where where is the fuss twenty percent on tax volume Emt stock tech media telecom side. You don't see right. I i have not seen any squeeze so that i mean that itself is very alarming because that either means that those have yet to come and so this portfolio unwind is still very much in. It's like tip of the iceberg iceberg stages or Even scarier is that indeed hedge funds have dearest all of their short positions because of wall street bets and you no longer have short positioning in the market anymore. That is arguably much much more of a risk than what more can come from this. How much more of unwinding. There's gonna say i was going to add to the short seller because i'm talking to carson block tomorrow about this one of the stocks that That that dumped was jess x. And that stock has been a battleground stock for shortsellers over the past year and with all the stuff on wall street beds people been saying. Oh it's it's retail. The retail army is squeezing all shorts. What do you know. it's it's a tiger cub. Who's behind controlling. Like huge huge amounts of float for jax and really engaged in in what could only be described busy. We'd carson things at this company is a total fraud. He's on the record actually think institutional investors saying that that like. He thinks that all of the company's customers are chinese bots and so you know these big sophisticated investors. They know what they're doing. They're not surprised to find out. Like oh gsa a total fraud. They know exactly what they're doing. And so it's unraveling another narrative like we had. We had a congressional hearing where people were dragged in front of congress to talk about this thing like little duino game. Stop has not come out to be part of this. But it's a similar stock. It's a similar story And to say that to say that this is the only fun. That's engaging in this sort of thing is just not true It's just extremely unlikely to be true. So i'm interested to talk to carson about that and see because it does intersect with short selling a lot of different ways. I'm glad i'm glad you brought that up when you talk about these stocks. That have been short squeeze. I think you're talking about before the past week over the past. Let's say six to eight months right where they're actually up over the past year despite their tremendous plummeting over the past week because they've they've had a tremendous sore and you're saying that carson believes that at that is short squeeze in the same way that we saw stop. Yeah and that the people behind it who are probably also behind game. Stop like it's not like yes. There was some retail interest in game. Stop but the idea that these same type of funds that look at gs as an opportunity to short squeeze and to get long for non fundamental reasons on massive leverage into control huge amounts of flow. Why wouldn't they do that. Same thing on all of these other stocks that people have attributed to the retail army. Like i just no offense to retail. But you're not fifteen million dollars levered five x like you're not so i don't think you have the same ability to move markets as these guys who are literally causing. I'm looking at viacom a company. That is a thirty twenty. Eight billion dollars company now after losing fifty percent so like. That's that's serious moves that are happening because of this company and that's one fund or it could be more than one fund i mean. Do you think that this is the only fun unwound at this moment in time. Now no gordon Look i don't know how much they're delivered There obviously insanely insanely levered But the like you said you're not gonna have. What is it like over a hundred billion dollars with a market cap First of all appreciate into the cellar and then just disappear within a week on one fund right because first of all if it is one fund that's causing all of this. That's that's going to call. That's gonna cause a potential credit or a credit downgrade on on credit suisse and number on negative credit. Watch from sap japan. And you have the you know. The cabinet secretary from japan. Make a statement saying we are keeping an eye on this the financial services authority talk to the bank of japan saying we have our eyes office. If one fund is causing that much ruckus than llegado. Are we in trouble. Like they're not the only ones who are going to lose money so it's either that or the funds that are very much involved and therefore other prime brokers and again this is the leveraged glue right I refuse to believe that. They're the only ones who went along these. These names there are there are retail investors. There a long only asset managers they're pension funds and there are leveraged hedge funds. That were long these companies. It's you know. I mean i. This is not a very long was up zero percent in a month right so there was definitely you know it was definitely long positioning. And the fact that we don't hear about anybody else should be ringing alarm bells doesn't it. Doesn't anyone find it strange. That the like are they seriously the only ones that were that good bosley long and wave away you put. It was if they are the only ones. That's fucking scary because one fun could cause this much damage if they're not the only one we're not hearing about it. That's scary because we're not hearing about it either way. You slice it on. Mary exactly at and and things that we we don't know what's going on with this one fund if we don't even know what funds are positioned and are at risk and with who i mean this is. That's that's why there's so much uncertainty from from my end. That's what i'm saying. Everything is speculation trying to put the pieces together. But you know it's it's definitely look it's it's not a it's a very scary thing and again i'm going to go back to The lack of short positioning if you have a market that is absent short positioning. That is very very structurally dangerous short positions. I don't care who they are. What their agenda is or whatever maybe if you have short positions in the market at the market is you know nosediving you have and economic actor New an actor martin. Who is who has an economic benefit to buy into a falling market in order to take to take profit. You know if you're long you're buying into falling knives that's not good but if you're you know if you have sharp listening and market it acts as a stabiliser for You know markets in free fall. We are absent that and that's very evident due to the fact that there are no short-squeezes in this complete d. Grossing of you know of the entire hedge fund industry apparently right so You know it makes me think about like okay. January twenty the last the last week of january of this year. You know post game. stop week. That was a very of historic week to end historic month. So you have you know. The i think it was twenty ninth or the thirtieth of january. That was the highest cash equity volume traded in history. Ever it was fifty percent higher The next highest which was in october of two thousand and eight. It was also the largest call often buying day in history and then seven of the last ten most active call often buying dates in history occurred in january of two thousand twenty one so there was a ton of that going on but the and obviously that. Let's push up the market. But i also believe that there was a ton of short-covering happening everywhere at the fbi. You know in the fundamental longshore equity hedge fund land to rose their their positions and so that short-covering was also contributing to a lot of the upside. We saw earlier this year. That was not buying new positions. Of course some of it was stimulus money and all that kind of thing too but this community were closing up their shorts. I think that's what we really was pushing a market tire. And now that they're out of him you're seeing market stall support for this podcast comes from goldman sachs what goldman sachs expert and leading thinkers about trends shaping markets industries and the global economy. Stay informed with the latest insights from goldman sachs on the economic and market implications of covid nineteen available podcasts at yes dot com slash cova nineteen or any of your favorite podcast platforms. I wanted to do it in on. Call options in a sec but but West if i got it. You're saying short-selling can kind of act as a springboard because when the market tanks that actually generates cash for those who are short the market and they have cash to plow back in whenever what but if people are levered long than instead of getting a short squeeze you can get a long squeeze. Which is i think tommy thornton described it to me on friday. So i'm i'm a little bit out of the out of the loop because i've been following closely up until the past month the goldman sachs basket of matured stocks has done really well but over the past month. Sort of fallen out of that You know how how the shortage interests evolve over the past month. Had we seen that dynamic continue. And i've got a question i'm a pundit to both of you because west. I know you're a veteran. This world. Max i know you talked to a lot of big time shortsellers. So either one. The last i checked on the nasdaq data. I mean that that chart is just you know of short positioning. It's basically you know. It's leveled out for for years years and years. And then it just takes a hockey stick downwards so you know positioning has happened but the success of shorts on some of their targets has changed there has been a palpable change in the wind in the success of shorts targeting. I mean mostly. It's it's just like the shit's backs and these companies. Like gm axon harshly because of unwind. Like this which is not the same thing as the market sort of repricing based off of fraud claims like mo shorts would like but it still matters that they are getting some momentum. So i'll be talking to to carson about that one thing. I want to bring up as we've been talking about this. All is like a risk this all about the risk. The downside potential here. But there's another angle that you can look at it. Which is a lot of companies just went on sale. So western like. How do you think about that when something like this happens. There is systemic risk. It can signal you know broader downward pressure coming in in in the future but at the same time i'm you have companies half off What they were trading. At a week ago and i personally was on monday. I was on the phone. What's up with the fund manager. Talking and in the middle of our conversation is sorry. my analysts has called me three times And i guess like a couple of our stocks are down twenty percent on no news. They were some of the stocks that got into this. And he's like i gotta go. Can i call you back later. And he was like. I'm still busy. Can't talk but he just sent me his order music it clears tomorrow like we just bought. We'll find out whether i'm an idiot or not. So i think they have held up. But you know that's a levered. He's along only manager So he's not levered or anything like that but he he did take that moment and say this is a discount. Has anything fundamentally changed in my outlook and he bought into that so there is a completely other way to look at this that. Yeah if you're already long probably socks if you bought that secondary offering viacom at eighty five but if you didn't buy that secondary offering a buy com eighty five. I mean you're looking at just an incredible discount and a bunch of other names. Do if you're interested in participating but eighty a little too for you. If you might look good right yeah like if if if all people right which is which is the case so when when you hear about like traders are braced for monday open. Why why are they braced for monday. Open why because it just curious. Now they're looking for an opportunity right because they know that nothing is fundamentally changed the company he just got put on the sale rack. And this might be an opt to go along now. I'm not saying that. Therefore belong to say anything that you know sells off but you know when it's clearly a forced liquidation that's pushing the stock down It's you know. And it's something that you'd be interested in and you're thinking okay when the entire market polls back. This is a time for me to be able to cherry pick. Well you just got you know Cherry picked up in the market for you but the but that's so that's what i would have said for years until two weeks ago or to be now. This time is different. Here's why different right. Like i said in the absence of short-selling okay. This this is a long short fund and there are plenty of longshore refunds. out there they. They're not you know. Also getting rid of Having short exposure and you know being just really long the market. So i think that in the case right now. A lot of people are saying well. Yeah this is this concerning look at the broader index indicates. Green is fine. everything's fine. Everything seems very common orderly because under twenty years that right. Here's what i would say to that you launcher fund. You can't short stocks. United states because of wall street bets okay. you'll get squeezed. You'll get deaths. We used twenty x rate. You'll get melted trade Europe they are based in korea. But you can't short anything on the kospi korea a sack exchange because korea has a year long short sale band. That's been in place. They are not allowed In you know in hong kong singapore so that only leaves japan as the only active market. That they are trading that they can short. There was one short cheese on ruxton That was about two weeks ago and otherwise there was nothing. So what are the what are they doing. Are they really just a long. Only so i believe that they actually just became a kind of a normal hedge fund where they took a single stock long position and they shorted the index hole. And that's why you see on friday when all this chaos was going on you saw The indices and especially the the agency. So if you look at e. j. which is pan eu w y which was actually a career for example and y for that matter. They all ramp up into the clothes like in the last twenty minutes into the clothes on castles on friday. The somebody get some bullish asia on a friday afternoon. That's a that's a fairly a looks like a part of this online right so when people say that markets look fine. It's their green. What you're pointing at is a green market. That is part of an unwind of obsession of west. I'm glad you mentioned that. So you're saying that when the stock goes up when the market up pumps up that can be assigned to unwind as well because people were short the market so they have to unwind that position West amac's is a phenomenal conversation We're running out of time. But i got an invite to spend At least a western that we continue this conversation on the exchange know. We really only have scratched the surface. I i don't know if we've given the people at home definitive answer but you know when things are this murky sometimes. You don't need a definitive answer. Sometimes you just need a catalyst to To to learn more often than you know. I think this has been a very good conversation for people who are watching this on youtube. Can you please hit that. Lightbulb actually. don't hit the like button. I want you to smash it. I want you to smash button. Smash scribe button on and yet you thanks you west max. I'm glad that you joined. Because i as much as this sort of chaos but there's this turmoil roiling beneath It's unclear if it's been resolved yet is the unwind over and no one really knows what's going on at the same time the s&p five hundred hit an all time high today and is flurry with four thousand. In fact i'm going to check. is it. that four thousand level nope it hasn't hit yet But were extremely like seventeen points. Off so max western. Thank you guys so much for joining and will leave in. The descriptions for western is talk exchange. Thanks so much guys.
Halloween wrap up
"Hello and you'll listen into spooky fancy dinosaurs who terrified Edry. She told the she told book movies. TV shows add coach. Kyle and would mean this week again. Is Nick Nick and Dylan own. Not who hates. Hey It's painted as usual your other fancy dinosaur and our friends. Oh Shit my era. Little sitting down mock fellow defied gravity raised up and did a three a sixty head ten See so as we are talking through your ease. If you're listening to it on release date. It is Halloween. Everyone Halloway terrifying. I'm going to lock my doors. Closed my windows charge engine. Hopefully all the GOBLINS zombies monsters. They're come knocking on my door. Lost Eater signal completely see wearing my listeners. The wary takeout local Bible and chased out of your house her pie so because we have a large fan fan base in America. A lot of them will be celebrating Halloween. All all hallows eve. This fine evening so Harvard has a safe and happy. Halloween make the punch the special hod kicking punch. Yes Kiki would what way what AH hot kicking. Punches like really alchoholic punch would we since since it is Halloween and it's scary to go outside. What are we going to be doing today? Guys well way basically to be running down on some spooky experiences we've had We'll be talking about some of our personal favorite horror movies or horror media. Utah is terrified. You know I'm not into scary stuff. It's scary like roller coasters for that reason. Because they're fun are you afraid of Fun Cloud uh-huh What's fun about yourself serious talking Shit life of actually shaved myself as well. Yes it makes. It makes a good story to tell everybody else. I think think it's a gross story. Okay until anyone else. Yes and there's just a big mess afterwards and then you've got her throat you pads or clean but I'll just throw them out I it's just gross. You got all this stuff ready that you leg. Sometimes it gets into your shoes. It's just it's curse nobody wants which really i. I wasn't at the state of water pulling out of me at that time. What did you just have like a big market or something coming up like the luxury? Okay just a little the say you. What do you just kind of sat on the Roller Costa? And Get up. You guys you gotta you gotTa get off the whole road. Because you'll know I'm good to city I just wrote it old bay. I wrote the entire thing yup or have like a a response team. Did they just like the other guys. prude himself on the Roller Coaster Pretty good isn't he would have a shot response tamed. I think they probably would seal team six. That like shot team six kid. Yeah actually do. It's full of people sick and if they do that as well you know like you guys keep talking. I'm going to look That a guy So moving into the Spooky Halloween. Nick have you ever had any personal closing. Canas is with the paranormal kind. No it all this talk about this month since it is October for Halloween. I treat October like I do descend before Christmas month. In other words I watch watch one horror related thing every day as well. I do December good Just going back and watch classic Simpsons Halloween special. Oh some other shows. Halloween specials tells of the crib some old horror films Speaking on really well including that includes reading horror Mongrel other horrible literature literature is Whoa and today. I received out of the mail from Lhasa. We talked about a lot. More Bunga of Junji Ito His version of Frankenstein okay. Who Frankenstein's monster has that has the artwork? The artwork is phenomenal. All it is very as a course. He is very graphic Detail he can actually actually captured. How horrifying Frankenstein actually looks? He actually looks like someone who is made from assemble of Solan off pots nursing what the original story told and of course Frankenstein's original eight foot high high and close. He doesn't come back by a lightning bolt. He was religious had some needles and chemicals put into him and then brought him back the movies. Where the ones that brought into a lightning rod facing it's alive? Yes I was expecting. I read the original book and I'm like Oh yeah there is no yeah. That's the Cordoba Cord for the movie if there's an equitable Gordon the in the movie. I'll just finish deciding to anyone who has not read the original Frankenstein all seeing any original Frankenstein media it's not like the films and it's Quite very quite violent as well. So that's why just give people a warning as well Franken was pretty violent creature especially well sorry Frankenstein's monster for you. Hornets at the was very very very violent. Like he just trashed crashed. Everything basically as call has told us as well he threatened to destroy his creator unless he made a wife. So it's happened to design Linford. Well how 'cause it's just a question of love and lust and beauty. Let's let's pull back so treehouse of horrors. What is your personal favorite? treehouse of horrors. Make I always. It's the biased. One it's the I forget that I'm is what they are. But it's the treehouse of horror that the first time we had a simpson in Freidy So that would have had the first. The first of that three pot was the one where all the The statutes nor the advertisements came to love. And I was not evergreen. Yeah yeah that's the first one was nightmare on evergreen. Terrace next was one. Advertising came alive and lost one was hung it's trapped in the dimension and becomes freed. Has Anyone seen that movie tron. Actually haven't seen any visions really. Oh we we saw tron legacy together. I'm pretty sure know what the fuck us. Oh that would then. Maybe okay. Who would? Who is a guy would be that that? Okay Kyle crazy skating. rectory sodas calling me. Kyle doing wrong. Aw put a blood J. everything just follow your up for the whole day So yeah I grade. That is probably. My favorite tree has parts as well with the whole just looked so just the just. Don't move by the The zone be one the the pet cemetery one. Yes yes. That's a good one. You Kill the scariest. What is definitely V Galloper won the car. All the Raven Nevermore Lor voiced by James Hill joins signs. That guy's voice. Yeah that one just that was what I actually like literally literally kid. It's just such a good. Yeah Oh my God is actually good. But then you watch episodes today and you're like This is just terrible. Well it's come back for another. Those sorts Enga Net lex- next nomination couldn't find Aw about the Vomiting Authority like Cillete ceases to TAME SAKES YUP shocking to clean up until they're all like secret cleanup crews it. Would you'd have especially in Disneyland. You know what that means if it does it's onto markets they have like a a These the law and Order Disney like public public order unit. Didn't them God should be real. Oh Yeah so what about you Cobb in. Have you ever experienced anything strange. Paranormal we'd Not really no paranormal. I did hear a story of my friend though. Apparently an atrocious but apparently One he just saw like a red face in the and frequent not so much like Jimmy. Jump back and you look back and I wasn't there but Apparently him it was the true but Well Drug and just running within only exterior case way back in my old place is that a Wild House guys does He. She killed a behind my house and was tree that used to be of a cool to Nari legend and the tree would would Why are the branches of the tree would always be facing Like the right of it and then if you would stand on the other side that same broad you'll be facing left for some reason okay. The disaster elision thing. Yeah I don't know anything really that personally. Those like India Ah Indian burial original per ground somewhere Of Ad Inaugu at one point and like people Getting freaked out about that sheet. That get collected apertures were held on his supposedly happened bloody forty years ago. Something the longtime I dunno swindle big universals just like I'll let strict these white people seeking this the money and use burn some twigs and. That's Yup we just got her out. freaky people leave. You like birds and stuff Brad. Take it away. They're all gross and stuff that a hanging around and then they went to suck. They'll believe anything. Yeah money probably like like Two thousand dollars. They need to pay us. I guess you know like any way America when someone says was built on an Indian barrier grand. The new like isn't the whole place in you need very grip and a Viking burial ground as well. Yeah well let's Britain Britain's of Viking burial grand and cold ice sheet you know the dead I mean by now Elaine everywhere is probably a graveyard that we've Provo- probably about everyone is is it and it will come back to life it'd be like what is this this structure what is i. Don't understand inch by land. The dinosaurs came back. No this is my leg country. God I hate to have have Intense was that high tech ghost on hills. Oh God they'll be terrifying. Ghosts can shake. Have you ever noticed in my car. Movies Ghosts chait. They can walk through walls but when they want to they can hit us. And it's like okay. It's it's like you you know any kind of made up fiction. Really whatever kind of media they can make up any kind of rules so they want like bed. Yeah what is it goes actually do to you. Besides he nothing it can pull you across the room throw your and scratchy so it was shit like adult mobile purse. Do Dixon doll really bright. Like the back yeah. I don't know if if a ghost could physically interact with you if I was a ghost Step into someone thin turn on that power and chop them in half something pal they can turn on and off. I don't know they seem surge through like how does it work. Okay said basically when you're your in your Non Corp. buddy as a ghost you're basically a shadow viga but all of a sudden you can go Powell on Andy Turn and you can actually touch touch things and people and stuff sir. Are you particles then essentially you just floating massive off to images until you you decide to be part of the normal world until you move on to heaven. 'CAUSE you're empowered Qatari side so there's the potholes that invisible into you. Put light on them and then you'd see them dust nothing that's not have in this when the sun shines through like a crack and you conceal the dust flying around like that what ghost guts the dust off. Well you're the one that's tried to like pretend in the you'll like the expert on this stuff. You may still trying to impress us if you all right. All right in watching ghost hunters like nonstop up sorry ghosted mentions. That's Puglia Fiction Science Grease. I said I remember seeing a fucking assure. 'cause it was like five thousand dollars for paradox. Old Investigator Mobile. Ud of like the fuck is this sheet. Thank you and I have I. I have degrees in both spook. Allergy and Sukom etry fuck. That is the stupidest thing about live a fucking the city. I mean I mean what I mean. I don't see that having a paranoid Like paranormal degree GEICO. Paranormal is just understanding the unknown when it comes to stuff you can't explain isn't that's so gay but it's more the it's it's it should be. The science is a science like it's like it's a strain of science. It's it's like our physics and chemistry out the same thing like paranormal psychology. Paranormal heritable psychology tried to understand the psychology. Dr Ghosts Paranormal covers. Anything like legends to Bundy for If you look at you become like a zoologist whatever the fuck they called. And then you go luke maybe the bachelor POWs like the Unicorn so you need a special degree for that sheet They May to learn the papal together. That they they know Dr Lori like like it's like the default grave for people who donate to listen to this guy But I still think there's a lot of merits when it comes to the unexplained and the ghosts and ghouls and all that shit I like. It's not a university degree with five thousand dollars award of it. was that five thousand piece of paper it easy if someone pay for it fucking free bully this go spot paranormal psychologists. The ghostbusters was a fictional movie. neek but the real ghost transfers to get this and degrees. You've had the joy the drama club casting couch. So you don't believe in ghosts so spiritual evil and demons and stuff like that are no. That's not what I said. I think it's stupid to go go to school and go to like sub kind of paranormal activity fucking clause when really. It should just be under the Monica of sites lights sites. is you see something. The will to copy explain you use a process to explain it. You have to observe it. That's it's decides AIDS. Just go to a science. Just look at Heathrow. What do you think society is wrong that they don't acknowledge host? Of course of course is wrong. Just proper science course learn the actual scientific method of trying to prove something instead the one that you wanted to specifically Other degree in regular breath. David Allergy made any of the holidays. Just just become a sign. Well I think I think a lot of will but the thing is adding the paranormal Something in front of it. It's still a scientist like like. Let them have science degrees. They well a like a well known. Good ask you right now. Who are you talking about in this? Regard that lewd the conjuring dude so we still talk about fictional huber VCR or the country's based on a real couple the what the country was based on a real couple and country. Movie was their most insane case he was the only one Aid was the only one who's ever done X.. Zim Outside of fucking the church pretty much like okay. I've never actually seen the conjuring okay I thought it was just a movie that was based on nothing. But it's based on a true story. You told me yes it's based on a couple of days it's cold end. Lorraine Warren said lay run so if these people up they will have science degrees in science not not be Manala gist degrees the scientists that led to a university. Ed studied full like other. How many years and what is science not did they will actually site? Yeah I I guess. David allergies more dots style than in a science things at all. I think it's an exile. No but it's it's knowing about Damon's in all that stuff from two different historical events like from different from bibles different things like that so it probably feed on that theology or the odds more so than anything religious April like I don't think any papal XS in the Catholic Church ordained by science because they believe that she or are they the back by Joe Question Right you know of any D- meteorology soul whatever. Paranormal investigator. That actually has is a science degree. Some kind of Moss is in some arcade will the I'm tipping a lot. All of those guys have like Jed this studies degrees. Just just free bold that idea all right but anyway back onto a paranormal stuff. I had a friend that one point in life may we. We all actually had shed experience. I'm not sure if nick was there at any point though not think so. Nick well you gotTa tell this story before I can but knicker. Yeah yeah the story. I'm talking about I do pull it away. Son pulled away our friend in that He was probably just having psychotic tendencies and he could probably or we tell the story. Better actually NICA okay. So basically we had a friend who had episodes With we were at the at parties. All Oh hanging out and these episodes revolved around. What seemed like possession? Now the thing is the important thing that doing investigations negations in. Paranormal stuff is debunking stuff so more than likely it was either terrorists or some kind of I Dunno sleep psychosis. Would you call it that that I guess but the thing is bizarre and so insane I think it came to fruition that time that he actually started with you know just movements and I didn't say the first couple of ones he used to pick up stuff with one hand really heavy stuff talk in tongues and all that other we'd stuff yup and then he started becoming more audible. Yes referring to himself as a day Michael Full below below allegiance Yeah Legion there was all these other Damon's than I think the scariest night was when I think you and just team were at my place. We had some pizza. He went to bed. Not all of a sudden started and like main you punch him in the nuts as hard as we could. We try to go out. We'll pour buckets of water on him and stuff so the thing is you know. He was asleep all he was under something. Because any I I should know that bank punched in the nuts hurts and he didn't even flinch. I'm surprised he got up after that. He's just like Oh hey guys heard. How'd you sleep? Dylan's place one. Bub Did yeah. I do do actually I remember Yup. I forgot now Yeah he was just going nuts. Yeah and use the same rating the place just like trying to go to sleep. And he was just like thrashing around like whenever Yup the scares not. Is it my place. Because he was screaming so loud like it was deafening. Hell Oh like and then he took like you so you took your salty that Yep until uh-huh quarter of my soul offer fuel to compromise soul another time. No no no he took off your soul. Oh and then another time. He took the other half. You early. Have a quarter. Russell left good so basically I am destined to live in. Hell Yeah Eh off the wall. Free quarters souls already in hell a half my soul's in help supposedly so that's going to be fun when I die and figure that Shit I mean I'm I'm near the last quarter Yoursel wasn't that like youthful. I've have I have a half or so with Yohaf. Hasn't been exactly. Nave is mine bane. Exactly clean of of spirit in mind off definitely definitely not no way both community the ultimate scene right now man the unforgivable sin doing the unforgivable not walk into. Oh I thought you meant making a podcast. Remember but not quite cost. I remember that one is the table of contents white. What was that called the cast paw show record Lord voiced Internet for alternative? How shallow pop culture yes? That was an interesting kind of experience we had may new spent the whole night. I just remember it was so Peteris when we had finally finished up we were having a cigarette just as the sun was rising. That was like like that happens. Yup we'll have a cigarette. Your importunate like that happened. I believe in the unknown in a strange bizarre. All I know is that I don't really particularly believe in that a but I I it off. It's a ought to believe it or I just don't believe in it because if I if it is real that means in half my soul is with the demon right which sucks are refusing to believe. I mean the thing is even if it was real. y'All would be onto the devil anyway. So he kind of Jeep Tamilnet deal. You know we kind. Yeah we kind of we kind of the of the phrasing on him. Say We weren't below. I shouldn't it well a couple of months ago a couple of months ago we did a wage bull and supposedly some kind a spirit around me. That was not very nice at all. Yeah I need to talk about that. Why would you miss without sheet? Because let's Sarah. Sarah really wanted to try her sister. Jude spirit. That just wouldn't go away at supposedly. It was connected it to me and it was like not this is real. What are you fucking with me? And that's what I choose to believe. Let's say let's face it I mean. What can you say about a game that was invented by Mattel? All the pocket brother. Sorry I'm Grisha The thing is I still wouldn't mess with that just in case just in case Israel just because you open the doorway once you put away g bone hold on basically. You've opened a portal to anything good and bad to come into the World Yup So I just don't think that's very wise enough. You drag me to hell have any yes. I have some Cervi fucking fantastic movie holy crack. It's one I actually actually like speaking witches. Did you hear I'm Sam. Raimi's working on the grudge and other Arabia the grudge. Yes so we stopped making reboots of Japanese horror. I mean don't making it till I get a good one. Exactly good. They get a that one will keep them making it until it's dead one. Sorry not good enough can do it again. Yup I'm in eastern cinema should stay eastern because a we'll talk a bit about j horror. Maybe the premise promo zone Not Nick you've you be quiet a little bit. What's just been listening? I did about that with our friend. Yeah now the cost of story. I've heard many many times. Oh so so you you you never actually saw it. I never seen any of it or any of the behavior but I've heard the story many many times. That's what I was quite fair enough. Absorb with the harbour bb will October by the way what some of the better ones you save. Well being no as I am just thinking well actually had a really good watching with more before we watched the one thousand. Nine hundred remake the BLOB. Oh yeah that was great ed basically compared to your regional nineteen thirties. One Way. Yeah the BLOB. Basically yes they made it for a remake in the nineteen eighties and basically what they did is they took the concept of the Blob and they actually had really really good deaf practical effects so basically when the ball jumps on someone it basically melts them away inside them. And you get some of the mazing practical effects like a guy trapped inside of it and its pricey against everything Donald Donald stuff into live and just like melting each pretty great grandkids. That's actually really terrified. The Bulb how did they stop it Fraser and and then they shot it through space or disorder into it just broke up. Like the T. One thousand but it didn't come back again. If a peace belt. Why did just come back? Yeah that's what I even set up for the end like what happened at early in the film is that the blood turned up the diner randomly and try chase. Some people are at eight some people but once they escaped Escaped through the freezer. Because when I tried to come down the the ICEMAN eat freeze instantly and what happened is for some reason the priestess walks in and he just goes straight to it pulls jar out and patches it all up and then at at the end of the movie he's like it's going to be the world's salvation as it's unfrozen as high. Yeah A. C.. I'm moving to a top speaker. If that happens yes to Canada I talk to go anyway. Called just fuck the blow up here. That's the visit year is when you know all these concepts were new and had so much ahead immagination back in these days horror movies. Don't they really lack imagination in its get annoying and sadly mistaken age every area ideas being being done at least once Except that already worked and do it again you will let's say Good Terminator Right. Terminated with that in itself is a harvey right. Yes a slow. Yeah definitely. I don't know why they keep going on with his Action Film Keep making the exact same. Fuck trying to make Terminator two for some reason like it but they even don't understand what made two minutes to work they're like Oh yeah you know. Everyone loves that part with you. Know the truck in the bike. Let's just do that. Did this time. Small bigger all the movie was in be strikes for bet. Cool still that. May that DOC phaser up recently I think and yet it's not good. It's not surprising not well. I'm still going to have to say it. Let's anx we're going to have to say it just in case one telling you right now. The enemy terminated is not intimidating looking at all star. What should be movies are this? This is like pain. The bully to not punch you the face but he punches you anyway the same time. If I listened to reviewers they win because there's been a a lot of reviews on movies I've really enjoyed these dirt dirt watch the don't I never listen to the reviews. I watch a trailer. I'm like like all of this. is going to be crap. I can tell right away if a movie's GonNa be good. If it's GonNa be a mildly sometimes I am surprised but if I I see a trailer and I'm like that's going to be bad. I'll watch that when it comes to TV on Netflix. So whatever of you being with the trial elephant And saying how much excited you win like I said it had it had said I was excited because it had the original Sarah conal and does about eight nostalgia feel movie actually look good. Yeah Yeah did you say that. The reviews came out and it's bad. I don't really listen to it. That the the mass people say but already knew what you'd like if the trailers that it wasn't going to be that good if you actually look at the trial is it. It seems like it's just trying to be terminated the to basically this move these the existing laws of Halloween and the success of Halloween two thousand eighteen. Yeah basically really they bring in you know like giving these people money. That's that's all I'm saying I just. I don't want their movie. V ticket sales to be that Glen Eagle. I know that I have come down the stock path of movies. TV shows in pop culture. I think I need to do the mischievous by absolving absolving myself in these things. You what the audience I owed them that. Oh yeah but I want the audience to stand Stand together or not what she on our but this occupied is you know what's good for someone else and that's always gonna be the case is it is it. I mean unless you want the rock to happen whenever I'm just thinks the same way. How's your disagree with me Nazi not the world's with Tom Cruise. That's a good movie. Yeah saying I was thinking about this today and I've written a whole thing about that. That movie was not without at its problems but at the same time it was the best thing we had at the time was it. I mean within five twenty. I'm five it's kind of like World War Z.. A. Gay World War Z.. Was Bad but if they called that. Oh No shit lots zombies lobbies. It would have been good really think maybe lots of people love for some reason. Yeah because they didn't read the book exactly so I can understand. I could appreciate what Steven Spielberg was trying to do with the movie but at the same time he made some dumb choices like why did we have right. None to that shot people but didn't destroy a clothes. I mean what what the fuck will have. University Audience Batman begins came out in two thousand five. That one of the best movies like that. Babic is amazing Revenge of the C- wait. What's what's your point? I figured out. Hey Hey hey hey. Hey Hey. Hey the movie came out. That's a Hora since two thousand five instantan- with Keanu arrives. That's a fucking great movie. He has got the galaxy. Resort that sought to Sorta it was really good. And the difference. Rejects Rejects. Hey Nick your your favorite Superhero Tom. The fantastic tastic. Four came out some pretty good stuff actually look at their here. We're the world's did he come out during a time. That movies which is garbage so yeah right but what was your point. Yeah what good. What was your point? No that was your point. You said it came out in a todd where there wasn't anything good that came out and they just said it you just said it came out in a tie with those nothing else. Good literally what you said. Yes what did you say. Aided listened back to that but I've ever been to say that if I did actually make it what if I wanted to look. idiosyncrasy came out as well. That was a good masterpiece over support with will reward well to begin with my point right. Well we talk about. We're talking about Some some people are GonNa like things that available height and always the case. I think we're the world's is actually subjectively a bad move like it is a bad movie subjectively yes that it has a lot of plot holes in it. I think it wasn't actually well acted. I think the action itself was garbage. I think the entire pace of the story was looted like rubbish. I think were the world's the re the Tom Cruise want is garbage. It wasn't without its. It had a lot of problems and I don't think anybody actually I know what I said. Now I know what I was saying at that time that was all we had. That's what I said. Yeah that's what I meant. I meant in regards to war of the worlds. That's all we had in the World World War of the world saw anything. Yeah that's what I mean so I was trying to figure it all back. Yeah basically that's all we was getting the only other ones we came from that paragon fucking cinemas that made war of the worlds. Those really really bad once like if you want to see a really bad war of the worlds movie they are bad. We'll have you seen Worthy will wife. That one was fucking good. That came out in two thousand twelve. I believe Yes suffused before. The world's like fees are warlords if you also about seven years ago so I mean there was. That's really good actually very take on it. I think because it wasn't a rainmaker at the a imagine it was a continuation. Actually of the story. Yes because it was basically the aliens left and it was during World War One which was very obscure as well so strange back-tracked back-tracked obscure. He's talking about the city life. Yeah I mean it's pretty obscure like world was more World War One was obscure because they had this idea. It's like hey you guys are gonna run as fast as you can on at the enemy's guns the best. I believe that we're the wills. Just actually bad okay now going by what I've seen from the trailers of terminated duck. I'm going to say clearly that it terminated duck fight just God does. That's exactly exactly like rise of the machines. The third one up. It looks exactly like Terminator Two just with ago machines. Strange 'cause they tried to like retail the story in Genesis. But now they're trying to retell the story again like most. We'll genesis is actually the early movie in the series that has actually varied from the original formula. Sir We we. We had the first terminator movie which was a horrible. We had a terminator two which is an action and then the he every other movie that has come out has tried to terminate to accept salvation which was a war movie it. We're actually a different terminator movie. Maybe it wasn't very good but I could see it. They tried something new. At least where you can appreciate. What we're trying to do with salvation? Salvation they turned it into a war. They turned it into a war movie. So it wasn't. It was an action. Worby where yeah Temerity was an action thrill. I guess I'd I. Yeah yeah actually yeah added. The first one was an action Horo Russia. He was basically like another mosque. Kill Yell and then every other movie does come out Terminator Eh. Three tomato the DOC fate and whatever other films that I can't remember talking ahead. They all try to be terminated too. Yeah that's what I'm really thinking. My problem with the new ten minutes jumps Peru. Not just at the main terminators is they. Don't try to fit in with the environment like they did in the first two films. Yeah true that's to be meant to be obsessive and basically when you look at Butler festival and was on he was a big bulky obvious dude but the second one actually makes more sense because he taking a position of the figure of forty because no one no question police or anything especially when chasing off the teenagers and everything's all Pumpkins when they didn't realize that we're about to murder terminator three. That was kind of like that. The one where the lady to data published she got pulled over by the Cup said her breasts go. She just soak way out of the ticket. I can't remember. She killed ables of the Totowa. But at least that's after that film the temptation would stop trying to fit in and everything and it's just really not really on them find out in the public everything so stand the biggest cool stuff in public or k they gotta they gotTa flip over on these calls on a high speed at highway. Such an I'd be like. Oh that's fine thanks. I've gotta be cool. Okay that's the entire. I can just imagine skied. It's the okay you go to go are backing Bob and try to kill this guy. The coolest way possible using liquid knives and stuff. They're worried about trying to get a snot or apple. Kill him from long distance as a sneak attack the door at that it needs to be in a flashy way Skynet. It was like all right. I need to do this but bay discreet. And then you just start. Tearing everything up and Scott is there in the future rating the history. What what could we address what I told him to do that? is they executing his like the droid like line is like the only reason fucking the tape. One thousand got into that chase situation was because he had no choice because Johnny had intervened. Yeah do you know what would be a great movie. What they should have done what? They should have made a terminator movie to be what they should do. I was just a sheet with fucking time. Paradox bullshit they should send a term terminator two Gert back in time and kill. Arnold Schwarzenegger's Schwarzenegger's Terminator before he can hold Jug Corner in the second movie bag and we know our audio that would be also so I met our. That'd be all right so oh so. They built a day. That is civically designed to hunt to terminate terminators. Because there is a problem with humid's Hacky a fucking obey this at thirty them against them. You fucking turbay hacker boom well. Yeah it's so strange because second half of the contact the whole thing Elites but yet. Because it'd be so cool because if if they made that movie that you're talking about all they could do was all of a sudden to see how big of a threat as take decimates him like modern Dan and just entering their something. Totally changes the history. Yeah why not just you did not playing with the time that the fucking. What's the Time loop thing on judgment is inevitable. Yeah she's happened that it's always going to be happening. They could just play with it. faulk the paradox. She said another terminator back to Terminate Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator in Terminator through that is eat or Samsung Race and that way you just fucking bucket. John Connor out of the movie together. Who Cares about that then so I think this this really came about because you know how you know? I'll watch McColl it what's his name. The guy who does the sequels and relaxing James Cameron. You Know James Cameron had this idea about the sequels. Always the best one year had aliens. We had terminated eh two and then everyone jumped on board and it's like this is the formula. This is how you make a movie and they just haven't changed from it. I haven't I've moved on to the regions. Like I said they. We did try to change from Thomas Salvation but that turned out to be garbage garbage just noticed terminator two and yet it's kind of like a fifty fifty because you don't want to do the same thing over and over again but at the same time you don't want people to go to a cinema. I get something better not familiar with. Expect to know that I would see based on the things that have already seen something through different and lead. Unlike it to you. Do something different at Sundance. Art is like only getting into the data. That's right you can because it's something you held pash you passionate about it. You're you're hot. The the first two teammates really closely. I prefer to one or terminator two is well. And that's appropriate popular opinion but what about like other the day. That's like alien of Aliens. I prefer aliens of Alien. Actually say I prefer the the looking Hora as opposed to the action Hara yet. I just I really liked the space marines. They really wouldn't for me alliens true then the winning part of the filming time here and the best lines I had the best scenes I had all of it so so they made it for me. Came over man give over back the promos on within back from war. What else is on today's problem with Hollywood these days they don't have any ideas the running out of all they they don't allow easing like I've got a really awesome? ID FOR HORRID TV show. Yeah you want to hear it I actually confirm you'll nine. I tell us actually could what theory theory and not letting any talent out of ID's or they don't they don't yeah because there's a video of Freddie Wall Yes Freddie Wong. Yup Yup the The special effects on Youtuber US game highschool What about him in well basically we already know he's gotten unlike billions of us and everything he's big he's mobile of Saint he's content than most Hollywood films? Everything is awesome. Yeah well it comes down to. He's already deep met executives and people all Hollywood and stuff like that and they don't give a shit what you do on Youtube. They actually look they look down and you because you're not in the big boys club with them so they don't let you in. Yeah and that's what happened for this long. That we've had people on top have have stopped in the seventies. This is when it will moved in. And that's when I decided to start coming up. Yeah will eventually the Hollywood bowl. It's actually happening now. Eventually Hollywood's GonNa be like we need to get some of that. Youtube money are akin. It's not going to be long long before Hollywood. Release a movie. That's like youtube exclusive or something it's got to happen like a true would likely Lixin whatnot blowing up if anything. Hopefully cinema going to become obsolete and arms like like cinemas are going to be exclusively full extravaganza extravaganza like amusement park rides quote unquote yet. This way go see the movie this is where you go see there jumped Scampi but if you want something you know thought provoking and actually something they could actually talk about and think about your. You'll get here. We'll not not as long as the studios are in control. Not as long as these old white men he'll well like like I love going to the film. Have you guys been yes. Yes you've been there you have. Yes not neak. Yeah I saw the team. Oh yeah that's right Yup and Dylan. Have you been to the FIDA VIDA in Melbourne it's fucking it's inexperienced because it's you know you got fucking what are they called again. the USSIA. You Got Ashes. It's just an awesome vita. They play a lot of older movies. S to tear. Don't forget the most detailed cinema cinema cat. So guys your in the Victorian region and you do not know what the Astor theatre is. You should go check it out if you love your movies and whatnot. It's just an old school kind of cinema. The movie even starts the curtains open and everything being the seats are uncomfortable. The floor is a little bit sticky. It's got that old cinema smell. The cinema was man. What's that nick done? Look at the roof. It's falling apart. Something about the ceiling phone apart and stuff. Yeah the senator is following. The ceiling is falling apart that they also have a cat roaming around. I said the cinema. Big Cat yeah. You just Gov Pat. It's like wow what a Cutie Lassana and what would you say. I was just saying. It's just a it's at the start of Chapel Street. It's a really nice place but you know it's not but at the same time it is. You know you get to go see double feature. You can have some fun with France. It's just it's it's a good good not APP YEP shapers. It's fairly chaves. Well actually I believe so. What are the prices of the tickets? Sorry but there is a proud defying. I used to say thank you check out the prices for the Joko Knock on early twenty five bucks a ticket again. That's fine so it's about the same price as other cities unless you the Franken's good old shape Tuesday's this thought that she choose as Aung. Wolfensohn has super-safe sessions which is like twelve dollars. Fifty men it's the best I'm GONNA go check that out. Great Awake Man. It's awesome really. She told me this sheet shit. Rookie fucking her. Watch that in the Cinema Cham- Next Themba Saturday. Not not the number of micro check that out at yes though Yes well yeah What else is on today's guys? Yeah we'll talk about but we must be doing. This is just catch up. Yes this is just to catch up What else have you guys been doing? Do you watch many horror movies over the October period Not really really. I think I got into the habit of like whatever I got. A was a nightmare before Christmas. I was trying to the habit of watching that every Halloween clean and Christmas the second year and I was like yeah. I think I'll do this anymore. Much aside from that. I didn't really have any. They like Halloween traditions. That I do. That's that's a good movie because you can watch it on Halloween or Christmas exactly. Yeah that is true. What about unique? MOMA's you saying will basically I'm watching TV series of the medical scream Queens It's really it's good it's slash whodunnit kind of thing but it is probably the lace politically correct show. You'll say oh cool. What was the idea that you had by the way you say you have this idea for? TV show that's right. I had a taste of Hollywood's Davies. No one's GonNa take it right so it's called Ghost hotel right. Yeah so basically. It's a ten part series and at the start of the series it's the producer and main host host of the show. He's in a court case and the rest of the show is presented to you as evidence of a reality TV show. He had cold Ghost Hotel Way. Pay Plot Suspend Suspend Marvin not in this supposedly haunted hotel and h episode. You know it's like I now present you exhibit and then you watch the footage from that and it's all the different contestants died in horrible ways while doing it because it turns out the place really was haunted. Yeah so that's pretty much it. That was my strange different. It was different to the Max but it's still a bit different idea. Okay so now let's like it's a fan footage inside a real show so the show about a shell eight. What so? Basically the guy uses is the inception technology to into the mind of the judge and said I never said that never left by now and there's another there's another show that could've could've made they could have had a whole show Iran inception and called a day section and yet Yeah they should early do a deception one inch Rockford self deception. That'd be awesome TV series. Yeah Hollywood's just fucking drunk at the wheel man then Noah's scout I'm GonNa fuck doing these old studio executives K.. Eh Changing the God 'em jail anyway man who mgm anyway. It's is neely that time of the day. Hello I'm listening. I thought somebody was like going to say something else is nearly that time of day. It's seven o'clock is going to be coming around soon and try to like break down my door and for candy and then when they find out our have any candy they just GonNa fucking side trying to rip off my fingers and ate them and Stott children. Why not me? I'm going to be out on my balcony and I'll be like a great amount of great eminem's here come for them Sudan Vine my survey just just make a bunch of traps inside your house. It's like come get the candy. They're gonNA be like stop Bob Burian and everything to just like you said my castle. Those children her terrifying Do you guys have candy and stuff to give kids now. We keeps never come down this way. that I ended up so like something in advance old place and I think the first couple years kids can't buy with off of that like nobody showing up the area. They they'd be doing it actually recently candy. This year strategy rally were spent double on the amount of Halloween preparation that they have in any other year Rehab. So I've really like Halloween. Arc is just fun. I'm getting behind it as well. Yes the reason why I like it. It's because it's a real communal holiday like well. The holiday celebration communal celebration. Yeah brings a community together a lot more because I used to be in that goes you know how when you talk to people happen. They're like odd what he did all that stupid American tradition and then now I'm like it's fun. Do you not like. I'm Lexie with having fun because Christmas is also stupid American tradition. We celebrate that holiday. You'll hear. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I remember hearing inaugural where people are saying when the superbowl came out there like Oh why are you. People watching American sports like I think most of the sport what we watch on TV is American. Amherst they can start vines and everything you talk about of you. Growing up were American events like Ali and everything yeah so why why the Hell not actually embraces. bryce Halloween guys. Does he watch a horror movie. Mak- JACKER Lantin. Jack Alanthea's Osteo. I don't I really need you. Yeah I'm going to. I'm going to do one but won. The Sierra de tools a pain in the US us but I'll just go ahead and for the next big about doing bombing thirty one so I have a wife and one mine take pictures. We'll take photos. Malala Have Jack Alantic. Put them up on instagram than instincts. Yep I'm GonNa actually by our soul from buntings as well to help me with it. Yeah that'd help a lot because the it's really hard to do it with a knife. Actually guys what your hands be careful Yeah if you if any the Americans out there any good Halloween Kavi tips for the Jack Landslides. Can you are let us know about. Actually 'cause they probably have specific knives just for the the video talk about it. Well Philip like a fish Kavi knife would be really good. Really you need somebody. uh-huh and Perry knife that small tiny one. Yeah you have those two with that. They will work really well but if there are any tips and tricks take caveat Jack Alanthea's let us know cause was stupid Ozzy's darn well. I guess by the time they'll let us know be too late so after zoe prepared for next year. That's fine yeah we can always get a leg. I'm Brian Rouge between. Yeah that time where. It's seven o'clock. Yeah let's let's wrap this bad boy up. Yeah Yeah I'm good to wrap it up and I wish everyone is safe and happy. Halloween a spooky Halloween. I really love this game. Untidy guys Christmas is in the same month. We're doing is it sort of really. Ah Like Shea Joel. Now what was that. Sorry I gotta sheduled all the way through to January so nice on the drive. We're going to be doing another movie viewing sern. I believe as well as highly. Yeah I'm cool that you're what what. What are we going to be watching? Most likely not of the living dead not of the living dead held. Yeah because that is definitely on the freedom and all but is it because music and stuff. We'll check that at added some point anyway Actually happened was the movie was eventually originally to be released under the copyrighted name. Not of the flesh eaters okay. What happened to that with already? Something else so. They couldn't get a copy of that and they went back to the original name. Nine living dead but no one's ended the copyright foam for that and so it's just tried so many times to get it back at a friend of mine but they will not. It's been too long. Rose fuck deal with it. Ah Yes Jonah. When you have a chance patillo gross the dirt understand how copyright like how she goes into the very domain? So there's a few different ways one can be seventy years after the original making all x amount of time or it's like twenty studies off to the prison dies as well. It also goes into the main so whichever one comes first but then house mickey mouse longer for domain. These Disney owns the fucking everything. Nick Not Nick Disney basically copyright laws to earn the exclude them to game the system. Yeah they call it. The Mickey Mouse Lull because Disney basically went and had an argument about the free domain and said they products products too good for US pleads. So they get to keep it. And I just reinstate the copyright all the time they're the only ones that allowed to do is the also known as many Boehner Copyright Term Extension Act Effectively froze the advancement died of public domain in the United States for West covered by the old fixed-term copyright laws so this kind of phrase it like when I First Walt Disney. They I I at the same time. That's unfortunate but then how does lor fake you us here in Australia. So so these things that are in the public domain in America weren't necessarily be in public domain in Australia a casino. Let's say someone arrives to that distribution distribution rights to something here but it's a free man in America it might not translate to us. Oh lucky for us. Most of our audiences American. You're being loopholes. I will use them. I know right. Yeah Really Dreaming Role. They uploaded it so technically. It's not off. Ah Fault yes they really need to have like a in countries need to get together. It'd be like okay guys we to hash out an internet right of bills or something like that bill of rights I need. This is what being the Internet is connected. The entire will there needs needs to be some kind of piece of paper patch. Something that says what we're allowed to. What would not allowed to do? Yes I do too much work. Yeah Yeah but then that went. China puts like twenty trillion on top of his nine. But that's the whole thing. These China can fuck off on. I also love money please. Sorry
"Right now on your wolf. It's the most wonderful time of year as scott acronym and paul tomkins once again countdown. Your favorite episodes of carmody bang bang with four very special stoves for more follow at earl's on social media had listened. Hey it's paulie amy and if you ever to our show unspoiled and you want to hear more well guess what we have. A brand new exclusive stitcher premium series. Called screen. test is a movie themed game. Show where each contestant starts the bottom of the hollywood ladder trying to work their way up to being a movie. Mogul was singing acting and improvisational challenges. Every game is completely different and radically weird and strange and we have so much fun making us. That's right there's even themed episodes have christmas episodes in horror episodes. You're gonna love it. And if it sounds good to you can go to stitcher dot com slash premium and sign up with the code unspoiled to hear episodes of screen test. Plus if you subscribe to stitcher premium you can hear every episode of unspoiled ad free and your premium subscription helps us directly to thank you. That's right it's stitcher dot com slash premium promo code unschooled at stitcher dot com slash premium. Promo code unspoiled. The year is two thousand nine and will you let us lick it but film dr. Hello everybody and welcome to on spo. I'm amy nicholson. And i am paul scheer in this is the podcast where we endeavour to find the one hundred best films of all time. We have cold the afi top one hundred list and now we are off on our own list. Our own journey with little mini series and at the end of every one of our miniseries. We turn it over to you to pick the final one and we have been talking about fucked up families for quite some time and what better way than to end on. Probably the most fucked up family. We talked about. Which is the family in the film dog. Oh boy amy This was a shocker. I can't wait to talk to you about this. But we are also in a new year. And i want to address that and my past mistakes because you know last week when we talked about home alone i really devalued. Somebody's comedy prowess. And i don't know if you know what i'm talking about but i feel i did not give joe patchy enough credit for all of the comedy performances that he turned in And i wanted to play for you this clip. Excuse me excuse me. Watch it This is twenty eight to thank you for. I refuse get stuck doing it now. Don't i said that. I'm not going back so just shut up. Don't go back okay. okay. Don't go back that's it let me tell you. Can i give you guys a friendly piece of advice. okay don't ever go up to the drive thru okay. Always walked up to the counter. You know what i can do. They do at the drive through. They know you're to be milder. Wait before you'll find out that got fucked okay. They know you're not gonna turn around and go back so they don't spot. Oh okay you're about money. it's amy i forgot. That's really where i got to know. Joe pesci think view is such a hard edged dude and think about home alone as being like the loan like comedic performance. But he was doing that he was an easy money. he has seen career. I mean this guy i think. Why do we view him as a serious guy when he has a body of work. that is very broad. No you're exactly right. Mean my cousin vinny yeah. He's yeah you're right you're right i mean maybe maybe that that should go on the list. The best funny peci. Since i've been such a hard s about getting rid of goodfellas and send your listeners also agreed with me goodfellas can go. We can't lose. Joe patchy though so we'll patchy i liked that plan. Let's do that plan. I don't know. Why joe pesci a raced his existence from my mind because those performances were so meaningful to me. Like those are the ways that i got to know pesky but now only view him as like raging bull and even honestly irishman peci. Like i don't. I don't laugh. I don't do anything. I'm just a serious motherfucker. Yes so anyway. I just want to give him props. No reason you've got the imagining alternate hollywood history. Where instead of bob hoskins. It was joe. Pesci in who framed roger rabbit. Oh by the way. I would love to see amy. My my mind is now starting to even open up more. Because do you remember the super where he played a slum lord or there was a movie i believe that j.j. Abrams road it. It was like him. And danny glover could call the gone fishing like holy shit. I'm like like eight heads in a duffel bag. I just opened up a comedy wormhole right now like there are so many that totally i mean and with honors is not a a comedy but there but it was kind of like him doing his like dead poet's society man. Oh man why. Why did they do that. Why did i cut him out. He's got so much. love is imagined. Joe patchy being his own little bubble. Like if you wanted joe patchy you go get a job passionate passionate replacement but now wondering if there was a period in the eighties especially like after something like twins. There's this head to head between patchy. And danny devito who's going to get the job who is gonna be funny loud mouth guy. And then bob hoskins is like i'm from england and here. I am trying to take some of your thunder if there's like a a short bald man off and they're all just gunning i. Here's what i think about. I believe the pi. 'cause joe patchy did his we're really going deep into pash But joe patchy did his kid movie where he was like that famous photographer remember. That movie was like We right he put me g public. I believe the yes so he did that movie. And i feel he's more of that. Were bob hoskins. Felt more like a pi to me. I don't know of. Joe has she. I mean look you can do anything. But if joe pesci feels a little too street for For pi work. I don't feel he could have infiltrated toontown. I think he would have been too aggressive. Maybe maybe he just would have voiced one of the weasels all right. I like that So amy we're bidding a doodoo fucked up families and i've actually i know i say at the end of every one of these. I enjoyed this one a whole hell of a lot. We're gonna get a chance to hear. Your feedback is on twitter. We're going to go back to twitch. sustained tuned to our social media channels We'll let you know when that will be but we love to go on twitch and go through and just really focus on your comments and talk about what you liked what you didn't like and we'll do that again Always really funds. We'll go through a whole Family thing and also on their reveal what we're doing next with can also i think because of the new year and holidays we can reveal it. We're going to be doing next at the end of this episode. Give you reason to stay tuned. How about that at that. I just say to you listeners. At home y'all are so delightfully screwed up. Because i don't think i would have guessed that dog tooth audience. Pick for the for the after manly's film and you'll went there. Y'all like legit went there. And the more i've thought about it and we're going to really get into this episode with the more thought about it. What a perfect ending to families. Because it's talking about this families. We've wound up talking about so many different aspects of the world through the source of the family and then if wind up with a firm like this that is so allegorical in its use of the family it makes it feels like a good summary of this series because here even your euro land the most himself the director of doctors. Talk about what you can do with the family film. Well i think the families you know. It's very representative structural this society in humanity in general. I mean the way it organizes itself and you can see a reflection of family. Every kind of Group of people or bigger groups modern groups even similarities in in relationships between two people. I think there is various a c. Trains behaviors in themes. That are very similar. I love that senate because only now at the very end of this entire series. I think right. What if we took the we've been exploring about after family films and we use it to take it. Even one twists further to the world of allegory. You know whether we're talking about the tenenbaum's or whether we're talking about the mcallister's that all of these films are even about something bigger than the finley unit themselves so for that. I say you're most thank you and thank you listeners. For really adding a great final cap to this family series. And we're going to talking about it really in detail. I just want to say like yorgos. Alanthea's is a director that i am truly In awe. I like him so much. And i found the lobster probably like most people and then i don't know why dog tooth never registered to me. I heard the title. I didn't know his him. And when a size name pop up us watching it felt to me like what a hidden gem. Because i'm always so excited to see what he does. I saw one of his films. When i was in toronto at the film festival the premiere of the with colin farrell and Nicole kidman dare you dear. Which was it just to see. His films in a theater is a really special Is a special moment. I i kind of put it up there with the way i saw jackass. You're you don't know how to react. The movies all follow similar pattern. We'll talk about it all. But i was so excited. And if you if you're not familiar with his work i could also see how this is off pudding. I really think he's a special director with such a unique voice. It's drew and if you have not seen doctors yet. I realized prepping for this episode. You can see it for free and a bunch of places to be. Has it if you don't mind putting ads if you have shutter it's on shutter to though you are in for a treat to watch dog tooth for the first time i am so happy amy. Let's get ready to second thirty. Cm off the year is two thousand nine governments in the us and around the world pump trillions of dollars into the economy in response to the ongoing financial crisis the world health organization declares the h one n one swine flu a global pandemic somali pirates hijack a us cargo ship. That was under. Control of captain phillips. The story inspires the film. Captain phillips starring. Tom hanks as the guy in charge. Captain phillips who saves the day a us fight was derailed after being struck by a flock of geese and the pilot captain sully. Sullen burger made a successful crash landing on the hudson river. The story inspires the film. Celie starring tom hanks as sully another guy who saves the day. Michael jackson dies and barack obama is inaugurated as the forty fourth president in the united states. This year's movies include avatar up twilight new moon hangover and today's film dog tooth. The film is in greek. We won't really play a clip. So maybe amy tell susan it. What's it about all right. I will happily to that. Dr youth is directed by yoga's length of us who we know today as the filmmaker of the lobster killing of a sacred deer the favorite. This is what i would call like his breakthrough film where the world was like. Who are you. And he shot it in his own country of greece which at the time he made it was a pretty low point in creative film exports which he helped turn around Doctor is this really constrained movie. You've got six characters shot in one house. Roughly three hundred thousand dollars is what it costs to make. Wow and yet what doctors was saying. I really like what people interpreted duct tooth as saying It grabs so much attention around the globe. The certain regard at cannes in two thousand nine. It was nominated here in america for a foreign language. Oscar at in two thousand ten and the story is about two parents and their three children who live in a compound somewhere in greece. The father is able to leave the compound. He can come and go and he can go to work but the kids who are two girls and a boy they have never left the house and says they are now in their teens. Early twenties we see how they have been shaped by this really insular world that their parents have created for them and how impossible it's about to be to keep them quarantined from society especially because the one crack in the armor is at. The dad has decided that the boyd needs to lead in so he brings in a young female stranger now. What are my favorite details of this film is at the parents have brainwashed. The kids with this new vocabulary. You know for example in the film the word zombie. they've been told me and small yellow flower so in the spirit of inventing language the number ones on on the charts when dog tooth premiered at cannes. The week of may eighteenth nineteen two thousand nine. It could not be better because it is by the band. Who lived to coin. New words like for galicia's this song is from the black eyed peas and it is called boom boom pow. they're trying to cover swagger now sold three thousand eight you so two thousand. I got that boom boom boom get. I'm so excited. Talk to you about this. I also feel like it's a tricky movie to talk about because there's so much subtlety in this film. And i found it to be in a way a little hard to really get into the film as much as i want to because i think they're so much detail in the language and reading it is fine and i think you'd get the broad strokes but i feel like if you are a greek speaker. This movie is going to hit you even harder do you. Do you find that at all. I mean being weird about that. I don't know why this movie push me away a little bit with the subtitles Well i mean. I was thinking something similar which is that. This is the first time. I've really watched doc tooth. Since go the rest of yugoslavia most later work like for me by service. Dog tooth is one of the l. a. film critics Association members every year. We watch a bunch of films. Yeah i know. I'm is going on and on about it. Used to be treasurer. It was like wow. Yeah like marin rainey's the best and i wanna hear anyone telling me anything else we just a couple of weeks ago had our vote which is usually fifty plus people arguing about. What's good on zoos. Over zoom in person we have bagels. It's a lot more delicious but anyway so what happens. In the in elephant critics is like right. At the end of the year we get flooded with screeners. And there's a we love foreign films and neck open. So i remember. There was a member james rocky. Who was like. Everyone has to watch dog tooth. Nobody has heard of this movie. You all have to watch dog tooth and he really hammered it. And i watch us moving. I was like what the fuck did i just watch. It really has been sense. Like seeing more of who your goes. Length most is and how he sees the world i've been able to. Actually i think have a better grip on this movie. This movie makes more sense to me. Now that i know how his character speak speaking english. If that makes sense like i hear how he likes them to deliver lines and now i can hear the him them delivering the lines in his style in greek. That's really interesting. I think. I also took what i knew of him and brought it into this film so i i definitely was leaning forward a lot. I just felt like these little scenes these little moments like. I don't know why i'm thinking about this. But i'll bring it up when the father is whispering to the mother and the kitchen. They're they're having this conversation. Then he he's not saying any words he's just mouthing what he's talking to abuses mouthing. The words like seeing it pop up on screen. Like i was missing. Some of the more subtle cues. Because i was reading a little bit more and i think there's a lot of stuff going on in silence here which is why the silence set pieces. I think worked really well for me. I mean whether that's the father putting the fish ponder the daughter punching yourself in the face or the sun killing the cat in the backyard. Those those moments definitely resonated more. Because i could just really be fully invested in because there is so much done with glances and looks and and just the way characters interact and i wasn't able to be so focused on that which i think i would have been if it was an english. You know. I hadn't thought of that. But i wonder if part of why this film struck a nerve around the globe is because so much of it is silent. Chaplain can travel anywhere way. Like i think a lot of what seems to happen when this film came out. Is that people watch this movie. And it felt approachable because of all of the silence. Right like yours himself has been like i have heard people from around the world. This film played ken. I did all these interviews there from journalists everywhere. I've talked to people all over the world about this film. And he's like every country has different impression of what it's about e-e-e-e-no like their space in there for people to project either like you said that people watching it say like in america. They really clued into this idea of home schooling. They're like oh it's a film about home schooling your kids. You know because that such a big topic here in other people like projected. They're like oh. Is this a film about fascism in this country like fascist iron is this a political in england was like. Oh is this a film about how the world become too dangerous for our kids because they were in a spirit of like really work. Your the daily mail is always like this kid was kidnapped right at. I think there was one of those big crises happening around like every culture took this incredibly different meaning from the silent. Things are watching. And i think what again to the clip. You played at the beginning. The episode what i really loved about this story and i think why it holds us. Much weight is because it's a core tenant no matter who you are where you live what you feel it there. Is this instinct as a parent to protect your kin right in that if we if we eliminate every thing else. This movie is truly about that right is about. I am keeping them safe. I'm going to monitor them. I'm gonna do this. And we all can relate to that and and then everything else outside of it we can dive into and pick apart but that is such a simple conceit. And what i love about his films and i don't think the favourite does this as much but all the films leading up to the favorite. Now that i've seen this. They really let the audience play up like the movie is going forward and you happen to be dropped in. And it's up to you to figure it out and when things start to click in all of a sudden you want to go back and rewatch it because you feel like if feels like you're tuning in the middle of a film and you have to and and the rewatch ability of is so great and i remember feeling that that with kung sacred deer took what's going on here. What's this relationship. What i don't know. And am i dumb for not knowing you feel dumb. But he doesn't. He tells the right story but that idea of revealing crucial plot points not like who's a murderer but revealing back story flushing out the world really painting. This picture is really fulfilling in real time. It i think it makes you actually more interested in drama and his stuff is so fucked up. But i think by doing it like that you can accept the fucked up -ness of it if that makes sense because not all coming at you at once. It's like not an exposition dump. It's like oh oh and that and that and that and by the end of the movie oh shit they did all of that stuff but it was doled out over ninety minutes right. 'cause like my least favorite thing that a movie can do in the short line i was ranting rather couple of weeks ago twitter is that they withhold something like the example. I was used as the kid die. Guy is out diet until the third act of god who care like show me that the kid died and then make movies Dying to do something but don't just be like way will slowly reveals you a piece of information that you didn't have information you trap to be like you didn't know you fucking idiot. And that's why it's dramatic and that's not as effective. Now i i. Yeah yeah this is like you're playing catchup key gives you everything i mean even in that i have the kids. They're all in the bathroom but he shoots them separately in the bathroom. You don't really realize that they're in the same room together for a beat. They're listening to this tape. That's telling them you know the meanings of words that we all know is not we all know are not correct you know. A c is not a leather armchair. And you have their media. Just think of something very wrong in this world. And then you see the kids who were being shot individually of shows isolation and yet. They're in this room together even though he doesn't show them together like isolated but trapped in the same place in the first thing is i do is like have this competition about who can hold their finger underneath hot water the longest and they talk about the rules and how to make it fair and you are just plunged into this mindset. That is completely alien. You're gonna be catching up to it and understanding it and getting a feel for how these people think right away and this film that whole scene that i think sets up so much of what we're about to know was improvised. You know a lot of how yugoslavia the most lakes to work. He was who he told them what he want wanted them to kind of make overseen in an improvised holding the improvise the game the improvise their questions. They improvise the rules. They these actors came up with it because he's trying to create a sense of a sense of spontaneity even though his films feel so kind of rigid minted in clean and orderly and quiet. I think that that feeling the film has also shot on one lens. I think it's a fifty millimeter lens. Anamour fic- lent so the the movie doesn't really change. Its look so in a way it's very flat and everything looks about the same right like it's it's voyeuristic points in. Its very plain at points and you getting to see. I mean the budget of the movie probably dictates says well. I think his films are very stylish. Besides this one all of them you know they all have this look to them in. This is so bare bones that it almost feels like you are watching the video of the father you are brought into this. This kind of colder weirder world. i think Style works so good with that. Yeah it has an airless. Nece to it yes. I didn't realize how many of the films were doing this whole section. Had that kind of still camera movement. You know hearing. You're observing like your your viewer. What like thirty feet. Back as you're watching the sun be terrified of a cat and you're seeing house lays out at him coming in with guarded shares and at the end. Maybe we'll get like a very direct observational close up of a dead cat. So there's a dead cat in this movie we will get it kinda done in almost like a biology textbook way. It's not like done. Here's a dead cat. Zooming zooming zooming. Well i mean am i. I mean again. We don't even understand the idea that they think the brother is beyond the wall until later in the film like when you first see him yelling at the wall saying i washed the car better than you. I do like you are. You're looking at it in this way you are. You are of an observer in this house and as information comes out you start to. It's almost like when you're in an awkward conversation and you walk into somebody's conversation you're trying to put together the pieces and i remember like that i mean we don't know that the the sons beyond the wall back in that first scene do we. I mean no no i. It's been so long since i watched it. I thought he was expressing competition rivalry towards his dad. I thought it was at a meeting to yeah. Yeah and then you find out later. It's the brother wouldn't win. the after. The daughter has secretly slicing off pieces of cake and throwing them over the wall. And you go through this little. I feel like a little motion will kind of were a window that it was like. Oh she's stealing cake. That means the daughter has a little bit of trickery in her and she's a nose how to get what she wants for herself that she's figured out a way but it's not even for her than you realize like she's doing it to be nice to somebody else and it shifts again. Yeah yeah and we'd ever understand what the brother is like. Did they have a brother died. Did they have a brother that was sent away. There's this whole backstory. Why they even think there's a brother out there that's never explained. It's filled with imagination. You know amy. The new year is a great time for a check in. And what better place a check in in your head right a mental health checkup and better help online licensed professional therapists who are trained to listen and help with your issues including he. You know what we may all be going through right now issues of depression. 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I am all in peleton Anyway that's on the line that they told me to read either the world that we are introduced to in the very first moment and this is something that you caught and i think this is where his films works so much better on the second. Viewing 'cause i'm not picking up on that when that recorder is going on in the beginning. I'm like okay. i'm i'm i'm kind of in this haze of i'm hearing things and not together exactly. I'm looking at them. I'm like is this movie. shallow grave. Remember that movie like these are a bunch of people like living in a flat. Are they like fuck. No twisted people are going to reveal his a dead body on the floor. Like i'm i don't even know like i'm i am uncomfortable for moment once. I'm not looking as intently at that record. But it's set up in that first. Everything is a lie right. there doesn't have to be any truth to it. The fact like when the father comes home covered in blood like we don't know what is we don't know what israel and the and the movie doesn't even want to tell us that like you know it's basically we are as confused as the kids behind the wall and the couple times that we go out Past the wall you know reminded me in many ways of with m night movie. The one The village You know this idea of like a town trying to protect itself from the outside world. And they keep these big monsters. You know Which is a cool theory. I movies are good but But i love that idea of protecting your flock but the father's fucked up. I mean i'm saying the father. Is i think the mother is complicit but he is actively fucking them like he is not. It's not just like i'm protecting you. He's fucking them over to. It's like the parents you ever hear the story about the The parents taught their kids. Klingon it's like this this. These two parents only taught their kids klingon and the the kid was taken away by child protective services because they're not even an language that other human speak only on only cling on And i remember reading that. And i was like and again. This is a years ago. But i remember that because it's like oh you can create whatever reality you want and and i will be honest. I see it right now with covid to like edo you see. The reality is that people create and as my kids. We're not playing with each other. You know but like they're they come home from school or they say oh the so so kids said this in school. This kid said that. Oh there's the these realities and and some parents have did like lie and we all live out. The tooth fairy spoiler alert me. All you know santa all this sort of stuff but there's a lie to thirty doesn't happen to the tooth fairy comes to your bedroom. The parents bedroom gives you the money. Because he don't like the kid's bedroom because of a lawsuit some with like a legal thing about being your kits that idea that it also speaks to the delicate balance at parents have to play. You are modeling behavior and if you are weird if you are crazy. I mean even watching like queen's gambit. Sorry i'm throwing a lot at you but like this idea like like parents can dictate how fucked up you are. You may not even have a chance in this world if you enter in with a fucked up parent and that could be apparent alcohol at that could be a fucked apparent who is abusive. That could be a fucked. There's so many ways to do it but it seems to me that this parent is sadistic on some level. This father even though his want is a pure his his intention sadistic yeah. It feels acute wants to raise the perfect children. It's almost it's almost like Eugenics or something he wakes. What do they do all day. They exercise he watches what they eat. And that's about it like he wants them to be in really good shape and clean minded. I i dunno nazi ish ideal like you will be the ultimate empty headed physically fit soldier. You know are looking in skinny. The kids are all very slender. It makes a big deal like how slender they seem to be and yet like in his quest to make the perfect and perfectly well behaved child. it's completely doomed to failure. Because of the way he has to do nothing but li- like to create purity. He asked a lot fill. Their entire world lies yet. But i mean. I don't think he's trying to create perfect kids. I think he's like why would you. Why would you be creating that tape. Why would you be lying about a brother behind. The wally like the john to keep them from leaving to keep the okay. All right all right. Yeah i guess the question is like what are you going to do with your perfect kids when you have them. Yeah like where does. Where's the endgame. Like what they going. What are they going to do when you die like what. Now i don't know i mean and then you take that in kind of say like well. What if it's what if the father is then representing a political leader you know. Where does that get you. Where where do we wind up when we follow that thread like here we are trying to create again like a perfect society like is a perfect society doomed to failure or like or like what does a or what do you say to your populace to keep them more behaved. I think that any time. You are an unchecked leader. In any way you are doomed to create something that is not sound right like like when there's no system of checks and balances and that's insane like i think that that's in creative things to and i know you said you're a creative entity but he's not working in a vacuum there other people that are adding to his leading improv takeover. He's you know there's there's an energy there you may know you want but you're using other people to help get it but this father seemed the keys working in a vacuum and the way that the kids performed from the way that he performs for them. I think that absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's a new thing that no one's ever said and i. I think that that movie that speaks to this to certain degree like yes. It may start as a liar two and then got more elaborate and it's almost like getting high on your own supply. It's like oh yeah and what about this and let over you know if they don't even think it's as ill-intentioned as it. I don't think it's ill-intentioned. I think it's become unhealthy and ill-intentioned. Yeah i think you're right. I think you could imagine if you started as i'm going to protect my kids. You know like like they're not gonna eat junk food. They're not gonna watch bad tv. They're not gonna have friends. Who are bad influences. They're not going to go to a school. That i don't believe in who's gonna fill their head with stuff that i think is wrong. It just grows and grows and grows every yoga said to him when he came up with the idea for the film. He wanted to parents to be doing this out of love and that they come up with in his words quote ridiculous ideas to protect them to lie to them so that they can protect them and they think it's the best thing that they can do for their children. I think they're so stupid that they actually do believe that right. Well the and by the way we like just because you and this is this goes back to. i know. i've been talking a lot about parents in this whole thing. And maybe a associated with myself as a parent too much but just because you are a parent just because you're a boss just because you have a dog does not mean that you are going to be a good owner or a good person right and i think there's so many parents out there just because you have a child doesn't mean that you are like you look at them and their parents. Of course they're going to have the best interest but we don't know what they were like before you don't know you know there's like this this you know we don't know that much of and we know we see a little bit about him and he seems really. He seems unhinged in the real world. Seems you know like that weird guy where you big. Oh did you know that you know stephen had a whole house of family. And they're all there and all the kids are actually they were all They weren't even his kids. They were all stolen kids or whatever it stolen kids but You know what i'm saying like there's an element of this movie where that could be a part of that. Well yeah and then. I think the real world wound up making this film feel darker in a different way right when it came out because you're ago started working on this film and like shooting it before the joseph fritz okay. Do you remember that you know. I do remember to refresh my memory. Because i was in my researchers reading a lot about and i don't know if i get this hundred percent. Oh yeah okay. So joseph He was in germany and the story with him is he had a daughter named elizabeth it when she was eighteen he tricked her into like a basement layer that he had dug out in a back. Shed like an underground lair. He tricked her into going there and then he locked her there and then he kept in there for. I think over twenty years. She had seven of his kids. Some of them stayed down there with her some of them. He pretended were foundling that she had left on his poor. She pretended she ran away in that every so often she would just like come by the house secretly. Leave a kid on the porch. It seems like his wife believe him or maybe wanted to believe him The yeah like she eventually got out like in. This story broke like right before the film came out. You know this this kind of horrible evil man like in this guy fissile like he said himself like he said quote. I had to do something. I had to create a place where i could keep elizabeth by force. If necessary away from the outside world in he himself he grew up during the nazi era like he was ten years old when the nazi era ended and so he said for him like he he thinks that maybe that influenced his views about what decency in good behavior was and he liked to. This day has refused to apologize or show any remorse for what he did to his own daughter for. His grandkids were awesome. These kids like defense of his own behavior is he said you know. Just look into the cellars of other people. You might find other families in girls down there. Like i'm not bad. Everybody else is probably doing this too. Because it clearly makes sense I i it's so interesting because we you know there's a movie that came out two years ago. The room there are these cases that kind of pop up every now and then you know. Oh she was in a shack. She they were there. They were tied up and we hear this all the time. This want to control someone absolutely. And i think if we go out further it's just a wanton desire right that we all have on some level and not not. I think there can be healthy ways of dealing with this but this idea of this is the unchecked version of it. I need i. i don't trust anyone to the world. I don't trust that anything will be okay. And and and yes. It's militias and not advocating for this anyway but it is. It is an innate desire. Of if i can just keep everybody here i can. Just it will be okay. It's exiled almost personified. No way yeah. It's like anxiety and narcissism. I am the person who is right for this job. Like if they only have me as their conduit everything is going to be completely fine and thing is. it's not even just the father. I mean christos stereo. Google play the father like he has his almost accountant. Manner to him like he's on an evil tyrant. Either you know we were talking about the casting of people who are playing the heavy in films and he doesn't fall into you know like i'm a boot stopping villain world. He looks like a guy that you'd be like. Will you get me these tps reports. That's the kind of guy he is yet at home. He goes from like office manager guy to a person who wheels is awesome it thirty and yet when he brings in the security guard from his own place to service the sun which to yugoslav the most men like he thought that that the idea that like it was really important to the dad that his son have sex while daughters are never even thought of as sexual beings in that household to the father that he thought it really captured the hypocrisy of greek families that he thought greek families rise just like so like proud of their sons for going out there and completely like wanted to keep their daughters sexually out of mind. You know very like buddy buddy punch you on the shoulder kind of way but he brings this woman to have sex with his son up. Lead by an a calico in christina the gets a name she has a tyrant streak in or to you know she sees that these are people who can be controlled and she's she's going to see what she can get out of it what she can get for a hair hair band which you can get for hair lotion in. So it doesn't indict patriarchy necessarily as much as just indicts human nature. Yeah yeah Yeah i think you're right in that that to me is i don't know i just feel like that is makes this film so universal and even though it's so weird there's some element that you can relate to. It's so simple. It's so clean so effective right in and we are being voyeuristic in this family. And i do think unlike some of his other work which i think lays out a little bit more this movie really lets you like mirror your own life. What are you wanna take from it. And i think you're right like this is why this movie may have caught the world by storm because you can see in it what you want to see. Yeah and i think even yoga himself has really surprised by that. I felt that this was going to be. You know a small little greek film that you know very few people would see so you know it just was too much at one point for us But of course you're happy about it. the thing is that you know you don't know what it is that you did that you know Made the film be successful so you can not really repeat it And i don't think we really want to repeat ourselves in in that way. You know what really popped out for me in this watch in again. I hate that we always keep up but like so much of the world has changed for me since this came out you know in terms like the first hand experience of exhaust seen in the world that says in the sense. This movie came out in two thousand nine. Like we've now lived through a lot of quarantine like these kids are in. It makes it a little bit more. We've lived through tyrants and people accepting to control. We've the time of really talking about fake news and how people learn what words are. They mean my god. The kids will not launder saying the definition of seeing zombie is not that much different than the fact that generations of kids here under stand the difference between socialism and communism era. There's this year. Fear words that you get trained to to have this public fan reaction and yet what popped to me on this watch wasn't so much the suppression of ideas. It was about the contagious -ness of ideas. That one's like a little bit of information gets into anybody's head in this film. They pass it on. You know they pass on data of licking ito the parts on the idea of jimmy the favor for this reward and you get to see that idea kind of spread through the house in mutate. I love that idea of telephone know. And how we all interpret life. And i think that our whole life is telephone in a way you know we hear somebody we see something then we try to duplicate it you know whether that is on the simplest level you know you have a favorite music. Artists are actor in their. Wear a jacket or shirt or they danced. Certainly wanna learn that. I'm going to do that and then you start doing that. You know and it's like and that's not mind control but it's sort of like a monkey see monkey do you know it's like and we associate ourselves with the people that we like and we want to be like them and you know whether it's a friend group and this idea of what that must look like to an outside. I you know when you see and we talked about this in mean girls or you know where where it's like this. Is you know the lizzy caplan character. Looks out at the whole group of people like this is this is the deal. Here's who they are this who we are this outside. That can kind of pick apart the weirdness and sometimes i know for me personally. You know being married allows me to see the weirdness and my family. Because i know where my family is and i've grown up with them but then when you need that other item bake we do. What how's that go. You know what you never did. Xyz no and you know a majority of that is good stuff for different traditions. And things like that but you know there. Is that thing what you take for granted or how you do something or how you learned how to do something until someone corrects your or shows you different way. It's almost like you've been left in the dark and then we all have been so. That's you know we just we telephone off the people we around. That's so true that that actually gives my boyfriend said to me last night which was Talking to somebody about his script ed. It was a person he thought was like so intelligent. In person mispronounced. A really basic word. I think it was the word segue. Okay i think the person said segi And spelt s. e. g. u. e. Yes me this. Because i mispronounced a lot of words as well. And like. And i've realized as i grew up i mispronounce words just because i read all the time by myself in my house and didn't talk to people about the words. I was using my boyfriend. Has you being around you. I was now able instead of being like this guy. What's his problem correcting him. He's like oh he just immediately picked up on the fact that this was more of like an auto died act that he had learned words the reading. But that idea of like how you get information when you are limited into where you're getting it from they. Somebody said to me once told me like they're like you hear somebody mispronounce a complicated word Never think they're dumb. Always think they're person who's been trying to learn in. They love that idea. It stuck with me. Yeah mean that's me. Like i mean there are. There are certain ways that i like like i remember. I never heard jump. Brian's name before. John bryan musician. New has done a lot of great stuff and his name before and like i just like john bryan know. I just gave it a different. I'd just gave it a different reading. You know and it's and yeah you're right. It has nothing to do with me being dumb. But if you if you listen to the radio all the time you understand everybody's name. Yeah i find myself in those moments as well. It's you know it's just you never heard somebody else used them. Yeah and do you want to say like the word biopic. Which i get a lot of shit i should say bio pic. That is actually deliberate. I do feel strongly. It should still be biopic. And i'm just gonna keep it until people agree with me which will probably take the end of my life. And i'll probably lose but i am committed to that so don't worry. I know how other people pronounce it. I just refused to buy buy by that. Well that's a different thing and you're more than me. I love it. I take it. I i respect you for your choices. Thank you i mean. We start saying biography than i will switch all right the reason you have a reason. Look now it's the reason why people have all decided new york to call houston street house. Tin it's the reason why people in those feelers call. It was feel as in. But it's but if you were to correctly pronounce it. It would be los felice beano. But like there is an agreement that we have homemade. And when you hear somebody say like oh you live in los felices right out from here talking about you know you know. Whatever it's you know. But yeah i'm guilty of that as well. Maybe movie is about not. Maybe the movie is not about judging those who who have that. You know you know what i'm saying like maybe this. Maybe this movie is saying to us like these kids didn't want to be this way. These kids are not these people but yet you know if you're going to judge them it's almost like you don't know where they came from this movie about Maybe this is a movie about sympathy. Like what you just said like a movie where it's like. We have like further shun these people because when that girl goes into the world she'll be she'll be ostracized. There's there's an interesting thing about you know not cancel culture but this idea of you don't fit into the mold that's it and we give you one shot and you're out the door like we're not very sympathetic to that kind of stuff. You know being different being out of the loop you know. It's about no new. Have defend our. Your mold is weird are mold is not weird. You'd better get in if you're not of our mold than your fucking weird and we'll always keep weird. That's high school. I mean that's everything that we are. That's i think. Americans are like you be individual but individual within this parameter that we've already set up right and yeah like imagining that girl. If she wins she hopefully gets out of that trunk. Ill going out into the world. The people that she first meets. They're gonna think that she's hopelessly timid or sheltered or hasn't seen anything and they won't understand the just to be where she is took an inner bravery courage that none of us have ito to get to where she seems. Less than is actually more than any of us have ever have been asked to tap right. It's like i always get a little of people who decided to become liberal with their parents being liberal. You know people who grew up the third of households and then lake learned thought came to their own conclusions. I'm always like that. Take such a such a strength to take a step away from your family. That way that i never got tested on my parents were always very very liberal. And i look so up to those people i would. I would like to know that. I would have done the same thing. I'm not gonna talk about who it is. But i'll share you story share you story emmy Seven friend and we had been hanging out for a long time and we were on a movie together and she's absolutely lovely and fun and whatever and we're we're talking and she says you know I i grew up a scientologist. And i was like really. I did not know that. And she's like yeah she's like i i said well. How did you get out like what was the thing. And she's like. I saw that episode of south park and yeah and she's like that episode. I was like oh gosh. Born into it You know and saw that. And that started a journey for her to reconfigure her entire life. And i always think about that because you know so. Many people were born into something people who are born into a way of thinking away believing without questioning anything. I think we all need to question everything and we can kind of fall back like. Yeah actually why questioned it. And i like where i'm at so i can be that you don't have to leave. But i was so impressed with that. But it's like if she didn't see that episode she would still be that person but then she wouldn't be the person that i know. It's it's just you know there are ways of keeping people in the zone and and and and that and that actually protects them makes I don't know what i'm saying more than to sing like this happens all the time. It happens all the time and weird ways. And you don't know who's going to be that person or that thing that will at least allow you to question. Whether that's you know. Even in the amish community the rump spring i know majority of people go back after springer to be like. Oh actually i like this better. And that's fine but at least they got the get out and that's exactly what happens here. I mean 'cause what radicalized is the daughter. It's hollywood movies and we never even watch her. Watch them but we watched the effect that watching a movie has had on her. I mean the first thing we get. Is this idea from sitting alone. I sing her sit alone in talking to herself. That one of the films that she has managed to trade With christina is rocky for. I mean if we get. This is one of the few lines in english so excited to play it. Let's play that he has got baseball. T get about akitas On now and then from there like you know you got to infer like well seat. But she seen actually a fair amount of the violence. She saw jaws because she gets to give that lecture about the different types of sharks. Okay well we'll rocky. Four is not on the list even though it is my second favorite rocky. that's vacuum. What really on rocky for is amazing. She wants to be called bruce. There's that moment where you can tell that. She hasn't shared information with her sister. Because she's like. Call me. Bruce i wanna be bruce out. Call me bruce and they have that lovely game where the sisters like bruce and she pretends deterred be like. oh yes. it's me but the sister because she doesn't have this cinema vocabulary can't think of a name to call herself. she calls. she's like call me back back as like the driver's name she can think of she's looking at back and she hasn't been given the door that will open her into a new world of ideas and images. Yeah yeah oh and we also get snow that the girls watch flashdance and have to play a little bit of that dance number at the end where you could just hear the sound of her. She doesn't have the words even tell her parents how she's feeling how. She knows that she's been raised that she's learned. All of these have been kept for her. She has no vocabulary for this but she has physical movements that she is picked up from film. I mean now. They're really think about it. There's so much in this film. It is about how art in culture shape who we are and what we think you know. I think the first. I wish film. I was focused more on. I guess maybe what i'd call it. The paving over of life. How these kids have been contained in any idea of like where they could have gone or grown and seeing the world has been like covered in cement know earn. These walls are trapped. But this time watching it. I was struck more on how blades of grass still come through the cement. How this daughter is still able what what helps her break. Free of this game and thinking about the way the music is music is use your culture. You have that scene where the dad is convincing them that their grandfather wrote frank sinatra that their grandfather basically is frank sinatra as. He's playing a frank sinatra song. He is translating it for them but it's all his own messages. you know. Listen to your dad be behave yourself. You'll love the family by spring net boon. Because i hadn't occurred to me is like right now to put that in the movies next to each other and say like in one version art is used to brainwash in control and in the other version. Art when when you're when you're allowed to art when you're allowed to interpret it for yourself the way. The daughter allows you to be free in art. That is interpreted for you. Keeps you close like this is what this film is. His goal in making this film was creating a work of art that an audience member could take with them interpret how they wanted. I mean here's a clip of even him talking about this idea of interpretation being the key for what he does in not dictating. His films themselves are not dictators to be like. Here's my moral and here's how you should feel and this is what the world is saying. So yes but we always try to make our films quite open so there you know people can think whatever they want about them. We just wanna present conditioner. Situation explore characters and make them do things that we feel. they're relevant to what we're exploring and then it's up to the viewer to start thinking about the situations being engaged hopefully with a film actively and not just watching a film that says okay. This is this and this is what happened and this is what you think about this situation. I mean it's. I always try to avoid that. In leave things open and in the end people can have their own minds and opinions about What going on in the field so yeah. I'm really happy that people receive different differently. Sometimes people see too much into the film. sometimes they can't really make anything out of it. I mean it's But you can't control that if you if you're making this kind of whom that'll just really struck me. The answer to this film is in the film itself. No i think you're right. And i and i feel like i mean. Look what a you know. I mean that's what we're here is we're doing we're talking. We're talking about and that helps me understand it to me. This is you know we think about it as a movie about family. But we're also talking about it as a movie about the power of your own perspective and and how that creates who you are the ability to make your own choices. I mean the the idea of free will or whatever you know that is is extremely integral and in challenging you and and you know when you're in whatever culture you know whatever scenario that you might be in you you lose that you're right and that makes me think more about the three siblings as individuals because they all have access to christina this person from the outside world who comes like burying ideas here. She's almost like a smallpox blanket of like contagious ideas. That like will break apart this house and she spends the most alone time with the brother who by nature is just such an curious person. Perhaps he doesn't get anything out of it. you know. They have their awkward quiet sex and yet for as much as time as time he spends with her. Nothing in her is contagious to him. Like he doesn't ever get curious. He's kind of the mediocre kid even though he's the one who gets all the awards from the father which that there's this idea here but like how he gets all the praise he gets all the stickers he's the best kid but he does nothing in this film that seems better than any of the other girls like the other girls beat them to the airplane. Girls are smarter. the other girls are like more daring. he's so mediocre and he gets all the rewards and he does nothing with like this access to creativity that he's been handed. Well i mean. Look that i mean we're in a world right now. We're we're talking about like the ability of the white male to just all the opportunities thrown at him and even closed off system it's creating itself to yeah exactly but then where do you think this leaves the younger daughter the one of the kind of shorter smoother straight hair. Who hasn't rebel yet. I don't know. I mean. I think you're probably looking at like three. Versions of of one kid will now be up to her to find her which path she's gonna go on. You know she can go one way or the other. I don't know let's do. Yeah like she has a whole story that starts when this ends is she gonna. Maybe this is like what happened to the older brother. Is she gonna start throwing her sister cake over the wall or is she gonna have to get over that wall. Maybe maybe this movie is just saying to us who you want to be like. What is the version of you hear like who do you want to be the person who follows along or do you want to be person escapes in the trunk or do you want to be. You know your choice is yours you know. Yeah and like what pain are you going to put up with to get there. You know because like that. The older daughter leaves gets traumatized by christina. She does not seem happy about anything. she's not happy about any of it. She doesn't like it and she's angry and she's been hurt and she has to hurt herself in order to get out but like she goes through these challenges you she takes the and uses it to create something else for her life. The youngest by the way like I want to talk about her for a second. You know. she's played by a woman married. Sony issues A musician like she's not really an actress so she cast her. She was in this really cool art house punk band which you have to listen to a little bit of it. It's called. Mary and the boy is going to play a little bit. Because i love it. He asked a musician like you looked at her and he was like she can do this like i believe that she can just performance yes. She's amazing. she's passed away now but Music is actually all spotify. People wanna listen to it. Mary in the boys really cool. I'm now kind of taking it back. And i kind of feel like you know. This movie is what you make of it and i know that. Feel that with a lot of a lot of the things that we see in and do on. The show is whatever we you know. That's what art is. We just talked about that. And i'm i'm so curious to see what other people's perspective on was. I think we're talking about these big ideas and we're talking about greek cinema which is not really on the map or a very small point on the map. The cinema not the island of greece. But how does this affect is a big movie. It's a really big movie. It's a big movie when you hear about how doug tooth came together. It was actually reminded me a lot of night of the living dead. You know like what happens is your goes length the most He was working with an ad company. Kind of like exactly. what Georgia georgia merrill was doing here. Well i just realized goes in georgia like the same name. Anyways george in greek. But so he's working with this ad agency and they help. Give him the money to make this film. You know this really ultra low budget film. Just like george romero dead and it winds up helping to launch a new way of making film in greece greece's one of those countries where the government awards money to different filmmakers it. We'll give you money. We'll give you money and the types of films that the government has usually there up until this point liked to reward regionally like big comedies kind of family comedy stuff like nothing cerebral to this extent. That wasn't really their style or like you know serious dramas but nothing like this. Nothing kind of outside of the wall in for your goes slant. The most in his friends like he really wanted to rebel against this government. Funded greek film center. That really ran production so that this film that have been kind of outside you know in this independent wave became this film that really defined greece that greece themselves decide to put it forth as their oscar contender. It really did open the door for a lot of weird stuff to come out of greece. Because if you're a film nerd you notice like every five six years. There's a country that suddenly pops in all of a sudden everybody's paying attention to it in the world is coming out of here. You know i would say like fifteen twenty years ago. It was iran than it was romania than it was greece. And i guess maybe we're not like looking to see what other country is gonna pop next like. Who's like this woman right. I mean to certain parasite i think. Definitely yeah i mean i know. Create korean film is big but internationally or or more commonplace to a more naive film audience. I guess i don't. It's kind of like a confluence of events right. There's like the that's their. the talent. Has their friends who are also really ready to go. Whenever not spotlit of attention is put on them. So it's like this mix like talent spotlight. We're going to be looking for you guys. What's happening so that happened in greece and it started this thing that they called the greek weird wave. Which the filmmakers were part of. The greek wave felt weird about it. You know too but it was operated on this level of like high allegory. You know lake really interesting approaches to idea in thought. One of the columnist. Who's kinda film critic in greece. He said that. When doctor's got this oscar nomination you know it meant three really important things for greece. Admit that like greek filmmaker is needed to be extroverts. He said they needed to be extroverts. Not like in cinema and everywhere he so that it sells. It tells greek filmmakers that. What's exportable means. Whatever just has an identity like you don't need to kind of make a mass common denominator thing. You need to make a thing with a certain identity which i believe is true very much and he said that three dog tooth getting nominated. It's an investment from like hollywood to develop in greek cinema which worked it again. Didn't think yoga's vote constrained by in his own way cause any leaves knee makes films in english after he makes his next film out But yeah like i. I love watching this kind of thing sprout up. You know that this. It's a very different political system. Now now i'm gonna go small ramp but i was thinking when i was watching this Couple years ago that s timbo film festival in turkey's government is a lot more repressive than. Yeah then the greek. The greeks were sort of closed minded and how they delivered art in turkey. There's more of an institutional problem because aired again is a horrible person Billy in turkey off films. That are turkish. That get approved to be viewed. Even a film festival have to get this ministry of culture step into the turkish ministry of culture uses that as a way to repress films that disagree with aired against politics and policies and so i went to film festival and estan boom since. You're not really allowed to make films that criticized the government directly. Those filmmakers are also working in the world of allegory in. They're using allegory. To get ideas in there that the government can't say is anti-government. You know when it really pops out his. I saw this film. That was kind of an tone like this Because this is only maybe three years ago it was about a town in turkey where all of a sudden it just started to smell bad like. The smell of the town was so awful. That one by one people started to leave. People started have breakdowns theralac. Riots affected the economy and it was a smell. You know is a movie about a smell but it was clearly a movie about living in an authoritarian state but it never had chaso and i just worship films that operate. In this vein. You know that like that that are like are a lot of our usual kind of oscar winning movies here in america that are like. Did you know that sexism is bad. And did you know that was bad. You know that they give you that space to feel like you can contribute to. The conversation at the film is having with you the audience. Yeah i really. I like that and i feel like you know we we. I think it's culture often. Don't do that like we. We very i think we. We put sifi allegory and saifi work together a lot but we very rarely do allegory in our drama. And i think when you do in defend mother first second. It is ridiculed you know and and because it's a little bit more complex a little bit. You have to say that that was it the perfect film. But it's it is a tougher pill for people to swallow. I think doug tooth is very exciting. And i think the world of cinema so much better now that we have goes length was here and i love that. He is working with more mainstream actors. Because i want this out there. I love the favorite. And i know that lobster is a hard pill for a lot of people swale even film. I mean me too but Sacred like like sacred deer is the ultimate. Like you ain't seen nothing yet. If you bought the lobster was like. I always said to people. The secret dear makes the lobster looked like a fairly brothers comedy like night. You know and and it's of like he pushes but i like that. He is also doing something. Like the favorite which is their felt very different to me. And in a good way i he's still retaining all the things that make them interesting and i think he makes what is the most interesting thing about him is dynamics his family dynamics and and the way his characters are in his character so perverse and i love it and i can't imagine though that he has many i mean you said that people came in there we gotta watch this movie watcher sunni. Who's not getting this. You know what's interesting. I was going back. And i was reading these reviews and most of the ones i found were positive in completely befuddled like in a way that i found interesting like it wasn't even so much i'm taking these different interpretations from it. You know it's more just like here's a family where this happens. Wow i am confused. You know and i like it but i'm confused. You'd like roger. He said that dog tooth was like a car crash. She said you cannot look away in the greek director yugoslav. The most he tells us earth complete command of visuals and performances. His cinema is like a series of family photographs of a family with something wrong with it. His dialogue sounds composed entirely of sentences memorized from tourist phrase books. The message i took away. Was god help children whose parents insanely demand. Unquestioning obedience to their deranged standards and so he takes. He appreciates what's happening but he takes us really literal view of what it's about that it's very much about like parents and children in a o scott also liked it but he was kind of like at your viewing discourse maybe more along the lines of what was that. I don't know weird. I wish i could come up with something better than that. But since i can't invent a whole new vocabulary. I'll just leave it there in wonder if we had to grow up here as filmgoers in america to live through what we've lived through an order to grapple with this film on a deeper level and not just see it as literal. I mean i did find a negative review who. I don't want to call them out because they write for a blog and i feel like anybody who writes especially if you're not getting paid to do it godspeed But a person who went for blog provided with the only actual negative negative reviews. I could find it. This said They called it. A miserable consistently worthless piece of work is that it was infused with an oppressively deliberate pace that immediately. Alienates viewer compounded. By land the most is refusal or inability to offer up even the most basic of cinematic elements the ensuing lack of plot and character development. Insures that the movie for the most part both the feel of an especially incompetent. Compilation of relevant sketches. There's little doubt that the movies total absence of a mental quickly transforms it into an epic interminable experience while the frustrating absence of context air go. Why are the parents doing this to their kids indicates that the most has no loftier goal into shock the viewer by the time the laughably abrupt utterly meaningless conclusion rolls around dog tooth has certainly established itself as one of the most unpleasant and pervasively wrongheaded arthouse flicks to come out around in in quite some time. The movie's success among critics and awards groups alike. Nothing short of inexplicable. Wow look look. And that's i will say that you know leaving the theater for sacred ear. I what people thought of it you know. I think know. I don't even know if you can enjoy these movies. Like if that makes sense right it's like do i enjoy this or do i love talking about it. And i think that they can go synonymous you know. They can go hand in hand. It's not like oh. I've got a pop this back in and got but i like a movie. That is more aggressive and trying to do this. I don't know I wanted to ask you a question. That probably never really asked you before but emmy. Do you think that the aliens would like this. I wonder how closely this would emulate aspects of the aliens -ociety. I wonder what they would make of us. If this was the film that they saw. Yeah i mean in many ways. I will say this is the most pared-down simplistic view of what human culture is. For every reason we just spoke about the want of being protected the the problems with absolute power the importance of art and your own perspective. It covers so much stuff. Then the rebel the human like be a teenager and figure out where is my freedom. What can i do here. And i so that level. I'm looking at this and going. Well hell you mean this is the then. This is what we said you know. This is not a straight up movie. You can read so much into it. It's not telling you what to think. Maybe in many ways this is the perfect for aliens because it's it allows them to see us kind of unencumbered without any pomp and circumstance. In a way kinda just presents a lot of things. Now i like the. I mean that's interesting because like when this became the listeners choice. There's a part of me that's like. Oh i'm really excited to talk about that. I love how weird everybody is. Well done guys well fucking done but then part of us thinking. Although of course it's going to be like the lobster the favourite right like if we brought your goes length almost in which i would love to do. It will be one of those but now that we're talking about it more. I think there is an argument to be made that the purity of this one flexibility of it gives its its strength. I agree and i think that for that reason it is on my shortlist to go to the because i think it encapsulates so many things that we talked about but also somebody broader things and yes you can look at it in one go. This is a fucked up family. But it's so much more than that. And i think a good movie can kind of hide a deeper message in a very simplistic tone. You know like okay. this is you can just go. Oh my god and stuff like that. When the dad did that she punches the face. But you know. Do you challenge yourself to deeper right now. It's edging it out. And i would never have guessed i was gonna say that. No no me near well done audience. We are very grateful that you pick this film and we are grateful to end yet another mini series and this is a really fun one and as we end this one. I think we're gonna go into an actually. Maybe a little bit lighter or maybe not. I don't know if we're going to go. We're going to talk about another grand issue in our life we've talked about. We've talked about high school. We've talked about being scared. We've talked about fucked up families and now it is time for us to talk a little bit about love as our next series is amy. Give them the name you got the name. It was so good. I love it. It's called a couple of goals. It's what we're gonna be doing is films about couples not necessarily like romantic comedies. We're thinking about romantic comedies. First couple goals like a lot of these films. Maybe our relationships that you don't want to swoon. Over but you wanna tender with you wanna watch you wanna wrestle to talk about these couple goals and we did come up with a hashtag for this one because we're going to be doing of course an audience pick for that as well. The hashtag is hashtag unsuitable. So that is what you'll be using to submit your listener. Pick for our goal miniseries and we will tell you the very first of our films in the couple of series. Because i don't even think it's a surprise. It's clearly been agitating for for years. We're gonna kick off the series with when harry met. Sally i cannot wait. Don't fuck with mister zero Our men and women can't be friends because no man could be friends with the woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with. So you're saying that and then can be friends with the woman he finds unattractive pretty much want to nail him to grab no. I don't like to eat between meals all roll down the window faceless groups of clothes and that's the sex fantasy but having similar twelve exactly the same. Oftentimes i vary a little which part what. I'm wearing them about other women. The other nine my love to this woman and was song credible. I took it to a place. That wasn't human. She actually me out. Made woman me out hermit. Sally harry mattel is available. Wherever you can stream your films. Amy we will revisit fucked up families on our twitch stream and we will then i think definitively have a conversation with everyone listening and with each other to find out which one we want to send a space. How about that. I love it i love it. Let's do it. And paul happy new year man. I'm excited in the new year of watching movies with you. My fave i. It's been so much fun and a big. Thank you to rolling stone magazine for giving us a shout out as one of the best podcasts of last year. So thank you rolling stone. We love doing the show. And the more you can tell people about it and and let people know we have a great audience and it keeps on building and just keep on getting the word out people because we rely on word of mouth lead. You mean a lot. Because we're ito we're so deep into doing this. We're not like the shiny kid but the fact. Yeah we're still being appreciated. It makes my heart warm and speaking of that please. Rate and review us on itunes. I know it's a small little thing but it makes such a world of difference. We are always told that that is a big big deal and So we really would appreciate you doing that. all right amy. Twenty twenty one here we are. Let's let's go.
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