9 Episode results for "Al Farhi"

League Rundown - Episode 341: I Got the LEC Back In My Life - LEC Starts This Weekend

League Rundown: A league of Legends Esports Podcast

1:04:08 hr | 8 months ago

League Rundown - Episode 341: I Got the LEC Back In My Life - LEC Starts This Weekend

"Hey everyone ian here. With a very special announcement the league run. Podcast has a brand new discord server dedicated specifically for league rundown listeners. Just like you. This new discord server is a place for you to interact with us the league rundown crew as well as with other fans of the podcast from all around the world we have discussion channels for live games from all four major regions as well as for all of your favorite riot game such as league of legends valerie team fight tactics and legends of tara. We even have channels where you can give us. Content suggestions as well as feedback for the podcast. Also if you join this new discord server within a week of this episode going live you will receive a super exclusive super special server founder role. I've included a click lincoln. The description of the podcast. That will take you straight to the server so you can start hanging out with us right now. We here at the league. Rundown cannot wait to see you all there now without further. Ado roll the intro. This episode of the lcs rundown is brought to you by moxie and zen checkout moxie zan dot com slash t force using the code trinity force for twenty percent off your order. Premium high-quality inexpensive boxers. They're made from bamboo to help week away. The sweat which leaves you feeling fresh. Compared to the other brands none of them will keep you as comfy as moxie and said thanks. Hillary shots fired single. Win the game by game biking biking too service. Hello and welcome to episode. Three hundred and forty one of the league rundowns slash lockdown. This is season eleven season. Twenty twenty one baby and we already had a little bit of a kickoff last week. But this week i got the l. e. c. back in my life which is of course the loving title of this episode because the starts this weekend. And who's excited for it. I am your host sean duffy. Who else is excited. It's odin saudi. I am hell. Yeah it's jack's rock-hard there. It is baby. Could you do it again. And amalfi sold there. It is love it excited not only for the league that he probably won't watch much of anyway but for something else says well yes so i already put in announcement at the very beginning in the episode. But i know there's some of you out there. That probably skip that every time. So i'm going to say it here. We have. All of us are very excited to announce we have a brand new discord server is it is it. Is an exclusive league rundown. Discord server for our podcast. All of the hosts are on. They're coming out with us. Play games with us. Watch games with us. Talk to us. Talk to other fans talk about other riot games. Talk about life in general. It's just a one stop shop for all of you league rundown fans to hang out. It's going to be awesome. The server is organized on like the other t four server And it's gonna be awesome and everyone who joins within the first week of this episode. Coming out gets a super special exclusive server founder role. There is a click a link in the description of this episode. Click be there. it's awesome. Thank you yeah. A really excited to launch this. It's really cool. Liens put a lot of time and effort into trying to create something that would be more fun and more curated for people who are really interested in professional league in less interested in being toxic and astles to each other. So please come join us a much more casual environment. Talk all sorts of professional league We will be there. We will be active because we like the community. We like the people who listen to our show. We really appreciate y'all doing this because otherwise we don't have a show every week without y'all karen and listen so thank you and come complete games with us. Come chat with us. We'd love it moving onto news riots. L. p. l. update appeal and elsie k both started up the past week in the l. p. l. It's been about three games for one team or one or two teams and most teams have played only two games team w e currently undefeated at three zero also undefeated at two zero edward gaming royal. Never give up and l. n. g. Everyone else has a couple of losses here there up. It's very very early. And we'll see how these teams action checking out as they play each other. There are seventeen teams in appeal and chances are the bottom for absolute garbage but the rest could all be very very interesting. Elsie k update. Two games played here for most teams. Jen gee and don. Juan gaming are currently hide at the top at two zero lot of people at one and one all the way down to the bottom. We got sandbox and on at zero and two only ten teams. There's a lot easier to cover them all about being boom life goes on l. e. c. Starting the twenty second of january. We are so excited nine. Am pacific time. Friday friday friday saturday at eight a. m. pacific time. This is great. We are going to get another basically double header. This starts in the morning. And then in the afternoon on both friday and saturday we get. Lcs lock in tournament action returning to us including the group stage on friday and the finals on saturday and sunday. But lic's got a little more in store for us. Y'all might have seen it on twitter already but frostier and has announced that she will not be returning to cast in the should not offer any additional explanation for it So we don't know. Was it the neon partnership was at other things behind. The scenes about has teased a new announcement for something else. She's already involved somewhere very excited to just watch. I don't know because. I don't think there's any chinese teams that are great valerien yet so seems kinda odd for at a jump over there. We will see definitely. I don't know if she's even going to stick around with right. I think it would be surprising to me personally if she stays with riot after leaving the which seems like the best brand to be associated with for frost given what we know about her cast changes though in addition to her leaving. We're actually getting to changes to the cast. We are getting too massive upgrade. I think in caja l- and foxtrot not upgrades over frost. But just over. The general cast caja is a recent pro. We've already seen him during world. I thought he brought excellent insight. I love what he and alarm in. The lcs have brought to their individual casts very fun very personable. And i think it's awesome. That they may be left the proceeds because it was a time but they found a great landing place. We saw this a lot of the beginning of league like season three season four. We got to retire. We got to see jat retire. All these big names very early retired and became casters and they immediately some of the best because they knew what was going on. And now we're finally seeing a new of that coming through both in the lcs and the ldc. I think it's going to elevate the game and also kind of get rid of the staleness that both the c. Kinda suffered from towards the end of last year and the has suffered from sincere three cough. Cough foxtrot an awesome new edition as well. He's been in and out of the casting seen for the l. e. c. for as well as the masters league region and also the couple the other amateurs leagues within the uk. Like he was one of the. Oh gee like youtube content creators for league of legends. He's about to say he's been around for a very very long time. And he's kinda you know kind started at the bottom and grew all the way up and now he's actually he's a caster which is great. I liked this guy. I think a lot of people like this guy. I'm excited for him. yeah he's your classic brit juggler. That was his big thing. Is the fog struggle with jungle videos like season. Three i think is when he started. He and sieve hd or very synonymous in my mind. It was foxtrot if i wanted to learn fox shop and stole lost up actually get. Yeah foxtrot stonewall we're like. Oh i wanna learn something in the game. Hd was okay. I want brainless smooth brain fund. Was the fun youtuber. No longer just. Because i don't think he's updated. That's it. there is one other piece. Actually i guess for people who are interested. The lcs academy will be starting january twentieth. So probably about the same day. You're listening to this. That's the same academy system we know and love where you've got your vets trying to make another another run at it and actually this year. We're seeing a lot more new faces within that scene. So i think if you're gonna find time to be invested in the amateur scene there is no time like the present in the lcs especially given the talent that we're seeing on the actual stage and how cough cough well or not well. They've been performing so far this tournament. We might end up seeing some of these names with the official jersey on the stage sometime soon. The tyzzer shifting hell yeah brother. The graves arising the tides are shifting roster changes. This isn't really changes. So much as announcement sent tauran received visa. Al farhi just played the lock in tournament so the only imports that have not received their visa belong. To what team gentlemen. Of course not other team is no other team. That is so synonymous with mismanagement than counter logic gaming and they are really driving that point home whether or not. It's their own fault. You know this is kind of the luck that they make for themselves time in and time again so kind of hard to you know divorced the two things here in other news. Lic and kia renew their vows for another year very very cool a title sponsorship. Just coming right on back for the ldc they've already got all these commercials filmed and no one wants to fill more commercials in the pandemic so it seems like a great investment to just keep that baby running kripo a name you know and love. You might know him as boris. You might miss kripo. You might known as the one hundred percent win rate. Navient at one trick. You might made that really cool. Look at the air. Look at the aero zone. So he's got some great calls when he's been on the desk for world's crappo is a return to content creation. He took a massive step back in the league scene following a little bit of scandal. That happened almost five years ago. I think at this point the scandal that yeah. It was a long time ago man. He had been a caster at that point. Art retired from pro. Play was a really well. Liked caster specially paired with who. I believe retired like the next season from casting as well really really beloved personnel very excited to see him back in content creation. Don't know when he's gonna start streaming didn't look too deep into it but it's really cool to see him come back and make it come back and i'm stoked and my hope personally is that this is a stepping stone for him to eventually join the broadcast or content creation team for the llc. As well i love to see that he has so much. Insight has been around so many different words i think four or five different org since he took the step back from casting so really stoked to see what kind of stuff he can bring. What kind of stories he can bring to the table all right speaking of stories we yarn to spin over the last weekend we had basically all of the group. Stage games played out for the lock in tournament. The only ones remaining are about ten games. No five games. That are currying on friday before the quarterfinals so surprisingly kind of weirdly only one team is actually done playing all the group stage games this weekend and in fact they're just done playing because in group a seal g went one and four in his eliminated from playoff one in three one and three. Excuse me sorry all four games in for yeah. I just imagined another loss in my head which is probably more than fair so as things stand right now. Tsm team liquid immortals are all tied at two and one in group. A golden guardians is one and two. But they're still qualified because only the fifth placed team in each group is eliminated and does not move on in group evil geniuses as we all predicted are three zero a perfect score seni- at two in one immortals at one and to dig natasa one and two as well and fly quest looking for their first win at two. Luckily for fly quests. They've played the least amount of games. Have two more to play realistically. They probably only need to get one win. I believe do they play this weekend there. Three more Snowflake losses two more games to play they play immortals and evil geniuses they pick up one win does every and they're probably stylings now they've there's five teams within the group. They play every team wants for a total four. Okay gotcha gotcha. Yeah the can't play themselves. Yeah well gee i think again fair so good news for fi- quest you've only got up to go. You do play immortals. Which picked up a win. But i think it was very surprising. They looked very weak. Unfortunately they did drop the game to dig natasa which would have been. I think easier team to knock off its perch. But there's there is hope for fly quest fans and you get to play. Eeg the perfect score team and moral so boy. This could be rough yes. That's there's really not much more to talk about. we could try to talk quarterfinal matchups because we don't know them until literally friday night and then they start the next day. There's really not much else to say. Which is why. This is such a tough tournament to cover. It's why we didn't do predictions to begin with. It's one of the reasons there's many reasons why including not knowing who the hell the rosters were actually going to be spending group stage of world's tournament of worlds very similar and it. We're seeing a lot of mistakes. I mean just from the cast over the past weekend lot of just really weird decision making from every team honestly one hundred thieves the fact that sealed you able to pick up. That win over them was shocking. Considering how strong they looked in every other game we talked about this a little bit before the cast as well. It really feels like we're watching screams like more than anything else to me. Like teams are doing a little bit of experimenting. You're definitely seeing like teams that have only played together for like three or four days and it really shows teams. That still look like they came out of lou teams. That looked better than any of the clash teams. I played against and some that looked less coordinated than the class teams. I played this weekend so for the the cops are definitely comfort. There's not a lot of new in this tournament in the little bit that we are seeing isn't going as far as we hope i. I think there's not a lot of new because there's not a lot of new in the meadow. Honestly it doesn't feel like meta has shifted hardly at all since Last season like we were still salata. The same picks Like power picks We'll see k. A. l. p. l. are almost the exact same picks. What world Yeah we've seen some new champions like the casa is like super super popular now. Galileo has gained a lot more popularity A lot of the lot of champions are still the same I'm sure we'll continue to see the likely through the rest of the tournament. I hope we'll start to see some shift. I do know that right has looked into adding some more potential to other eighty carry. Builds will show which won't actually add diversity. All it will do is shift from these three to five eighty carries to a different three to five eighty carries. But at least that'll be a little different. Something something i think as we as we see the new items get a little more fleshed out. We'll probably see the meta shift again a little more towards something else. Hopefully something new Similar it's being played a lot lot. Samir which is honestly a trap champion in like the k and l p l like i think it has a twenty percent win rate outside of the so yeah find a way to get rid of her enacted man even though he looked amazing this tournament but still so tired of for next and every year the same like we pick reluctant top line and we pick a jungle synergies with him. That's how we decide our team about the teams. Then we could rent a down real quick the teams that are going to be moving on a little bit. So let's talk. Dsm how did tsm look. This was a team that was adding the brand. New shot caller. The veteran the world finalist sort already was hopefully going to turn some things on its head did have a lot of brand new players only one player on the team who was still starting from the end of last season. So this is very much a roster that is finally coming together of these players actually played with each other at all before this season and they fucking looks like there. It is talk to us. Jack's okay honey. Looks like the last couple of years of whom he he individually made stupid mistakes across all their games speak a looked. Fine power of evil looked fine. Lost sort looked fine. None of them looked coordinated. Yeah that's the story of many of these teams it is but some felt like less coordinated the other. Yes for sure for sure which shows the fact that they're two and one despite looking massively uncoordinated or more so disproportionately so i think kind of shows their actual strength. We're seeing them play. I think better than most would have hoped and you could be a little upset with the play. that's happening. Actually on the rift relatively speaking place like kinda hard to compete with that and this is a team that looks like it's just going to get better so so long as they continue to mash which. I think we will actually see that growth over the next two weeks. The this is a good team. This is a solid team. And there's another really good team here. Team liquid owed him there. Two and one is well actually know what. I'm going to have ian. Take that one. Ian talk to him about team liquid. Te'o looked on you know similar to what you're talking about on Tm they individually. I think look like they're playing. Well i think that jensen had There was one Which game was a it was the one where he played cassiopeia One hundred game the one hundred these game where he of ran it down a couple of times. But i don't think that's a uniquely. It wasn't his fault. The olafs fall but Yeah overall i think that If you're a team liquid finn. I don't think there's anything to be worried about. I think that all of these players you know they look fine. I think there's lots of room for this team to grow and mesh. I think this is going to be. We're probably gonna end up seeing this a lot throughout. This is like individually the players. Look okay but as a team as a coordinated five man. There is lots of work that needs to be done on many of these teams and i think the team liquid is just one of those teams. I wanna add on that like not only were saying oh individually blah blah blah l. Looked already you can see his peak like my god. He is really fucking good. He and someday actually i think really mirrored each other. This whole weekend were individually. When they were on their own you were just like oh shit like these guys are fucking greater impact as well. Yeah all three of those really. Were like oh god what the hell by ever washed. A north american tournament into impressed with toppling. Yes you can see it in the golden guardians game and the steelers g game. Don't watch the hundred game. But it's like just absolutely destroying on camille like seven and one on camille hard. Carry four zero on gangplank hard. Carry like yeah. This guy is popping off already and i really hope we get to see more of this right because god. It's been too long yet. It looks great. I think the other thing is all three of those players. Much less extent for impact were coordinated with the team. They were didn't quite translate their lead as effectively as you would expect in the loss. It was real fucking bad for all those players. But it's one hundred thieves. It's week one baby. It's week one of a weird tournament far literally. I landed on tuesday. You know like relax. Things are going to be fine. Odin tactic one hundred thieves under these looking like we hoped they would be an absolutely dominant the fbi who he have not skip to be. They are a brutal bottling to go up against and they other than dropping an early death to core and tactical they kept kept good grasp on lightning phase. The entire time will they got to be too kills in both of the other games that they play like a minute. Three or some one hundred ten. Tsm game Absolutely fantastic the the seal g game. I feel like this game was just an instance of seal dragging team down to their level of experience because two games the game in a liquid game one hundred these really really good like they look like a top tier team but the seahawks game is really really rough. man. I don't know what was wrong. One it's a rough thing where diamante dante's oriana while not being a bad champion forum isn't the kind of champion that he normally uses to blow a game open and making that room for closer and now someday and this game like closer and someday we're expecting the same amount of space that they were granted in the in the other games and it just didn't come through someday. Had a really rough game. The engages came in at weird times and then it just amazingly solo on sale g and griffin on sale. G played two of the like the best game of their year. Probably in this. I fucking game of of the splits are of this tournament so like it was just really an impressive show from solo in griffin in all honesty. this is the kind of peak i'd hope to see consistently a wiggly now griffin. Yeah happened subs. yes will be gone. Solo will be gone griffin at least the sticking around the academy player so he'll still be within the organization whether or not we see him step up especially after a really really bad twenty twenty. We will see but sealed you. We won't cover them yet. Golden guardian sir. Jack's talk to me about golden gardens their week so far i mean they were fine like they went one and two. It's not amazing at all. But like i dunno golden guardians so down on these guys. It's fine expecting them to do anything and they played much better than we were expecting. I feel like i feel like niles. An iconic coming off. Yeah they're both collegiate players and both of them had amazing performances even in these losses iconic when six and one in the loss to so really nice performances from some new player also. I am surprised. Duffy hasn't said anything about sticks a after actually looking alive for the first time in fucking years. Yeah i was going to get to them when we talk about how excited i was to watch a game and finally see sticks. Say pop off again. The unfortunate problem was he was wearing the other team's jersey at the time but he's actually looked really good like just solid. You know he's not this standout player for them right now. We're not seeing them and going. Oh my god like wow. This is resurgence. I'm being like okay. I was worried about sticks a being the veteran presence to build around. But i'm watching the game so far and there's some bright points across the map specifically niles and then to slight lesser extent iconic that you could be built upon and if sticks continues to play as stable and smart as he looks to be this weekend like this is a decent roster this is a roster we already said could have growth and if they start this hot they're not getting the results you want but if they start like this and continued to develop throughout the year like this is solid. I'm excited yeah. I think the kind of big takeaway is that sticks. Say it doesn't look like sticks say was a mistake to to to put on this team right. Not absolutely and if you're going to grab any of the to the sealed you bought lane to start a team with. I think the next team kinda of told you which one you should be taken out. The correct choice was stick say conceal g worn in three. Yeah they were just bad they were so bad. My god they were bad everyone was bad solo had one good game so to griffin the other games. They were atrocious terrible. Yeah even the game they won was like what how that was. Basically wild turtle just be like a comp difference can free fire and that was it like it was it was battle valves the whole time it was like you couldn't tell it was gonna win until the game was over. It was the opposite of a coast game right up until when the lose the game. They're winning. It was up until the game's over. I still have no idea what's happening this garbage bad bad game that they happen to win but they didn't deserve when they came. They really didn't deserve to win. Any games at all. I mean they sucked po. Beltre who. I'm used to watching as the most stable player on this roster was really bad like this is a bad weekend for him while turtle i think like probably the shining light of the roster of like the actual three and he was bad like not good. His leaning was so rough. But i think that's almost vindicating my own personal love for stick say and like dislike of smoothie yet again a bottling with smoothie sucks in to to this is a consistent theme we saw turtle be able to hold a tv to by himself last year. Yeah like ignore would leave him and smoothie while being in lane makes turtles job harder. Turtles is a bad player at all. We've seen him do very well. Historically and i think this is one hundred percent on his support right now also before we move on from them i know he's a sub. I hate that wigley. Renamed himself to griffin. I know it's his last name but wigley was such a good name. it was griffin's also a great name event himself so that people forget that he's cra- trash one of the best handles of anyone to come on the last five years it was very griffin's is really good same thing with apollo it's like oh damn like those are some solid fun names just use them too bad screen name previously so him changing. I'm like yes. He was wizard was bad. May man don't knock him in his various play. Baby that's group a jump on over to groupie so we can stop hating on seal g for at least one more episode group who you tap on every episode. Hey so long. As they keep deserving it will keep hating on them speaking of teams that deserve it. Odin hit me with the beautiful evil geniuses weekend. I didn't think this team would be this. God damn good but they came into this tournament hitting on all cylinders. And it's all perfect. It's crazy you put zook as fence karen and ignore all on the same team. They're just gonna keep going in constantly and they're gonna keep finding fights and it's going to go well and then they in all that chaos created all over the map by that just allows impact. Who was on every single game and made it look like the most broken champion. In league of legends. Right now absolutely dumpstered fudge his replacement fucking not his replaces. Sorry i keep. He absolutely dumpstered fudge. Coming in here is the new hotness and then just proceeds to like not need to carry every game but has the best performances we've seen he enables the fuck out of his team is just nuts. I loved it. This team is so good. I expect them be top three now. I think the biggest surprise for me because impact. We expected to be stable top layer. Like that's what he does. It's already what he's done before. I don't think there was going to be much of a drop off about his individual performance. The way he's mesh with teams awesome but the biggest thing for me and the biggest question mark we had about this team is. Can he play with the team. Can he actually do something. Can you be functional. And he's played very very well this whole week. Answer is yes so far. He has been very smart. he's playing correctly. He's playing with his team. He doesn't feel like the one lone ranger trying to like claw. Victory back while the rest of the teams like dude. What the fuck like. We're fine if you just with us know he's doing really well and he's obviously playing with a chip on his shoulder. He had a whole interview where even talked about it. I'm very excited for this league team. We definitely underrated them if they continue to play like this. Our predictions are a little scuffed. Because they're looking they're looking good already and i'm excited for what we see going into the playoffs and how they handled best of situations because they've got some really good experience here and i mean god i fucking love. Peter done like holy shit crap already like if this if you can really truly quantify a coaching a coach's ability like it's gotta be at least somewhat. How did they get this team to mesh. And they he put together brand new different personalities altogether and they look like they're really good already and if they continue this trend continue to grow like he's done before another rosters. Fuck peter done for coach of the year. See nine ian hit me too and one weekend. Yes so other than the The game where perks just kind of decided to to end his ass off a little bit. i'm pretty satisfied with the results of this weekend. I think that Obviously there is a massive skill ceiling to this team based purely off of the talent like the names on the roster. And i think coming into this. Everyone's big question mark was is c-9 going to look like coherent as a team coming into this and i think for the most part they did. I think that they You they're bottling looks. Still very solid blabber. Looks excellent right now. And you know fudges. He hasn't gotten a lot of experience on like a huge stage yet. So we'll wait to see. He doesn't look bad but he didn't look amazing. But you know. He's he's new. He's a rookie right And you know perks the game. I think he looked alright. So yeah. I'm super excited to see this team grow. I think is just such a massive massive skill ceiling here just waiting to be unlocked by this team and hopefully By the time l. c. really get started the real first week after this tournament. I think that'll be the the time where we can say. Yeah this team. Looks like they're gonna they're gonna grow into the team or You know maybe they need to do a little more work behind the scenes. Yeah i interest for the record. I think they are going to be like you know a good team. I don't think they're gonna come and be like I think they need to grow more. It's like i think they're gonna. I think they're going to do it. I like some of what i've seen from the team. I like the things. I kind of expected to like from them. But i'm worried that i'm not seeing and it's very early. The things that i would have liked to see out of a nineteen perks. Surprised to see the orn on fudge was interesting. I do like that. We're seeing him on a tank. We're seeing him on some other picks it's good to see like diversity there. I wasn't impressed with him on any of them. Okay yeah like. I wouldn't even put them in the realm of serviceable considering how good some of these other. Top liners look of the teams that we expect to do well throughout the actual season c. Nine did the least to make me comfortable with that. Pick like i felt like okay. There's a growth here. I can see some great peaks happening. C-9 i failed to see the peak from perks. I failed to see a peek from fudge. And that's fine. It's literally three games. Like who gives a shit but like those are the things that i saw other teams start to answer questions for me about. I haven't seen emc nine. We'll see what they look like next weekend. They're pretty much. I mean they're guaranteed moving on to the quarterfinals. With two wins at this point pretty much they could still see niang it up and miss the the gauntlet stage. But i think it's pretty secure. I think for For fudge. I definitely agree with you. I think that like he. He's looked like mediocre so far but then for perks on the game he had he ten of in today's game but the others who games he didn't really he wasn't on a It wasn't his job too hard. Carry those games. I don't think. I think i'm looking forward to waiting. And seeing when he gets put on another carry like another game. I see like a rise or something like that. They can just hard carry and that you a game felt very much like he came in with just a chip on his shoulder. Like definitely i'm better than everyone. Because the dynamic just laid it felt like he was just like i'm just gonna style on these forward for kill all. Yeah for sure. I would have rather it been yasuo than yona i feel like he might have gotten more done yasuo with gale forces. No fucking joke. But jonah is just an individually stronger champion of the two right now but yeah. That's totally. i mean. He's probably a hell of a lot more practice on the oslo to he might have was gonna come well known for the yeah immortals one and two. I have to say the one win is more wins than i thought it was going to get so down. A few players yeah. I'm kind of proud of them for that But in fact that dignity us into their fucking faces yeah game part of the problem. I have with like really be like hey like job. Mortals was the fact that the they'd be was also digging to us and the way the game was played was like. oh yeah go created. Quick question asks asked for me here real quick. Because i haven't been playing as much because my internet's bad graves isn't supposed to have a cs lead on carthage. Ever right or is he just that raves is just like right now in the hands of people who are competent with him. Impact his see a thirty deficit from the car. I think he's he's one and i'm not a juggler so please correct me if i'm wrong but i think he has one of the fastest clear speeds right now. One of the healthiest clears and his dueling. Potential is just like god here graves basically because of that. Yeah yeah it's comparable between the two on top of that. Graves has the ability to like invade especially with winning lanes and stop carcass of being able to farm. However the stiff that was at wasn't really on what graves did so much as it is on what dr didn't do. Doc did not play the pick. Well so blows me away that he even pick it and implant this poorly with the kind of player he is. He's been put on cars like several times throughout his career in every time we see him. Play it we're always like dude. Why would you pick that like. I haven't seen this keeps picking any other region yet. This is the first time. I've seen carthage. Because i've been watching a lot of l p l l c k i haven't seen any of those regions pit carthage at all or even a pick like really similar to carcass so Yes it's just a little confusing. Yeah i think there's a lot going on only go ahead one amazing game and then he had this year where he didn't get a single kill and it. The duality of the champion was very much shown. Rather go one in ten or you go twelve and ten right like that's how it works. You got it. Ten deaths bike regardless immortals. Picking up a win with majority of their team out. Well yeah three of their players out missing a jungle or eighty carryanne support right now pretty impressive to act at least get that. And this is the full toss roster. Yeah yeah go up against what's supposed to be the strength roster and beat them now we'll jump over to digging toss right now and talk about them we already hit their highlight which is solely go had a great masterful game on i think during that game we saw some really good play from afro and lou little lesser extent. But it wasn't like it was a pretty good game and so they go looked fantastic really good mechanics just smart decision making and i really saw that game without. Oh shit jimmy harrison. The boys this might be a team to watch. then he watched the other two games. You know okay well but there is right but hope ray. We saw that. They have the potential to do well. So there is something there if you're a dignity s fan it's not all doom and gloom. There's a spark whether or not that turns into anything or if it fizzle out fizzles out and dies is going to be on these players on the coaching staff to really assuage. But i don't. I don't know we're gonna find out really tough talk more about them because they'd go one and two and yeah. We already kind of covered their win. Loss by quest zero two. They get two games on friday and that's really it for them. They got a step it up. They gotta get at least one goddamn win or they're gonna be worse than seal g. for the lock in tournament. Now fly quest is playing both immortals and evil geniuses so it's going to be a pretty tough day to get to wins. Hopefully the one over immortals is all they need. I don't know how. That's i'm assuming there's gonna be some tiebreakers. I have a feeling immortals and dig. Aren't going to pull any win off scenery ag so probably unlikely but it is just a one off. It's best to one and we saw dig natasa win. You know like anything at the very start of the season did get a win against fly quist. Yeah yeah so why quest means to win out basically yeah fly quest and i still think they're jose today auto is still not here yet. So they're still using an i other than that. They have the full. Roster annex is a big up and coming talent. But i think this weekend just showed. He's not ready not yet he. He made some really questionable decisions. That would work. Great and solo q really aggressive over the top like unwise decisions that he would not get punished for a less coordinated environment that he just got inst- punished for instead so it looks difference really bad performance in both these games. I think it might have just been the an excise. Different style of play. Licorice wasn't able to step up with it but he had a really rough game. Both if you're playing top lane in pro play and you can't rely on your juggler and know what they're going to do. You're really behind. So i don't blame him so much for that. Although i think he did make some really poor individual decisions as well but it's so hard to judge players and even though we're judging the fuck outta cg because we can but it's hard to judge players when you know that they're playing with subs. It's hard to just play this. It's easy to deceive g true. I wanted on my tombstone. That's really it. I don't wanna i don't wanna get too much into it. Because they've still got half their games left to play for the group stage itself. We do the quarterfinals this weekend. And we can start judging really heavily then because we get to see whether or not coaches are informed can coaches draft and a best of environment. Now that we've actually seen a full weekend of play. How're team's going to adapt. Are we gonna see evil genius. Continue their streak and go undefeated here and carry it into the quarterfinals them. Kind of fumble. Here the line are we gonna see fly quest. See golden guardians with rookies. There's a lot of question marks. we're going to find answers to seal g. No no no. We're not let me let me shake the magic eight ball that is non-existent. Good no good to go all right. That's enough for north america because we're jumping over the pond all the way over in beautiful bavaria in berlin germany. We are starting l. e. c. action. We got the l. e. c. It's back in our life. We've already talked about the casting. Changes and i am excited to run down the team's real quickly because we need to talk about them before we jump into friday's games. It's been a whole week. Probably since you've heard anything about we did cover them last week in a very specific focused for the entire split episode. Definitely give that a listen if you haven't yet we'll do our whole run down of the teams. But we've got g to fanatic misfits mad lions rogue shoko for astrologers s k gaming xl vitality or the teams competing so the only real changes audience is now named changing strauss which was already their parent organization last year. And let's talk about the upcoming games. I'm super stoked for the first game out of the gate g two versus mad lions to start off the twenty twenty one season. Odin what you got for this game. What are you looking forward to what he thinks going to happen really well. I'm looking forward to reckless. I'm looking forward to caps. I'm looking forward to a g. Two coming out of the gate guns blazing. And i'm looking forward to mad. Lines holding their own on c. Madeleine stepping up. I wanna see how this year goes. L. this is going to be another mad lions rookie roster essentially versus g to establish titans. Same thing as it was last year just a couple of different nameplates on both teams. This could be really cool to see g to showcasing their brand new eighty carey. Which i think. I mean fuck dude. That's up massive is pretty insane g to can come out of the gates firing they can falter a little bit and wall to shrug it off and say it's fine because my god on paper. This team is a monster in every sense of the word mad lions. I'm really excited to see their new rookies. See how they play. See if they gel out of the gate or see a bunch of jitters see if they have a similar style of play as last year because the meta really hasn't changed significantly or if we see something a little bit new a little bit different Especially given the fact that they now have a top leonard who i think can actually go toe to toe with some of the middle to top. Range top liners in the l. e. c. right now whereas aroma was just kind of near the bottom tier. We're gonna see what happens. All predicted g to win this game. I think to literally no one's surprise astrology versus s k. I will take this one because someone has to do it. What am i excited for. The next game. The next greis. I'm grateful to riot for putting g. to mad right there to start us off and then to give us a nice little snooze her so i can go back to sleep with strongest versus s k. Just to give you a rundown. This is white knight versa jackson. The top lane. Then zara verse tax in the jungle nuke duck versus blue in mid lane jessica versus zoo in the bottling lane and promised you versus treats and support. We know half of these names. We've seen the rest of them. And i think been relatively unimpressed by everything we've seen from them. Yeah this is this is going to be a wet noodle fight. Whoever wins we lose. And i'm saying all this so that they make me eat my words and this becomes the most exciting game of the day for absolutely no reason. It's a bunch of rookies to im- excited rookies. I'm excited to see something. A little bit different will see. I have zero faith in the coaching staff of either of these teams and therefore very little faith in the product. They're going to put onto the rift. Verse excel ian hit me. What are you looking forward to here. We have rogue across the board. I mean do you want what do you make talk about you man. You know. I gave you one that we've talked about a lot with excel so you've got some kind of little lead in there. I had to give the misfits one to jack. So that's coming up. i mean you. Both both teams have like some new players on them. I'm excited to see new players. Am i saying the right words. Yes keep going. I think rogue is gonna win. Because i think they're new players are going to perform better than exiles new players. This is good good content. I think that what's I need one more point. I got. I think the coaching staff from from there. It is Is going to is going to do real well. They're going to do a good draft and then they're going to win the game. Perfect couldn't ask for anything better than that. Summarize every point Excel's the team. Of course that we kind of have a little bit of a home or boehner for because they've been kind enough to come on our show and support us and we definitely appreciate that. Thank you now to the grant russo at guilty sports wise awesome go follow him on. Twitter definitely cries dan. Shekhawat basically are the top half. The map for accel cries returns. Which i just think it's such a big question mark. We need to see if he can actually play anything. That's going to be useful here. You can't really pick vladimir right now. Sorry you got to pick something else. You can pick the kale. But it's been pretty damn heavily. So i would not recommend it especially in to the camille or even the orn like this is a real rough in the top lane for every pick we've seen from him and rogue. Oh man odom omni larson based on how he played inspired. Han somma i. We don't really know trimbe. So that's the question. Mark there but rogue looks like one of the teams. We expect to do well this year and excels a team. That's kind of experimenting around to try to find the right set of players to put on the rift without breaking the bank with a really really good bottling in patrick and tori so i'm excited to see how they match up against on selma and the new support but otherwise this is a really top-heavy map for rogue versus excel and. I think it will play out that way. We all got rogue win in this across the just like said s k when the last one yeah just summarizing what you said again vitality versus shock four owed and baby gotta talk about vitality. I know how you feel about that. One they're coming in to look a lot stronger. we hope. Maybe they're keeping most of the same roster not too many new just a new top liner and juggler. Schemes is new so the last year last year. Yeah so it's really just a new top later. So hopefully we can see some actual standout play from them but four was really good at the end of the last year and only made upgrades. So it's going to be a hard one. Yeah really excited to see the blue tank and how they return if they can keep the form from last year. I mean that's a team to be reckoned with the problem is it took them so long to find that for him and it was pretty much too late Literally got in at the end at the red light at the buzzer. So they need to start a little bit stronger this year. Like please please lads make up for the fact that your actual soccer team is given me heart attacks constantly. I'm pretty excited to see how shock looks. I think i mean fuck date it's vitality. I really liked duke as a coach but this team just is always a nightmare in always worse than the sum of its parts so maybe they can prove us wrong but they got a lot of ground to make up our right. Jacks you get the other marquee match the friday misfits verse fanatic. Hit us all right. So i'm obligated to put misfits winning their first game of split. I'm not actually expecting them to win. But i'm gonna put them to win anyway. Like fanatic made two changes. They made a mild downgrade eighty carry because they were forced to an upgrade in midland. And this was a team that made quarterfinals at world's end looked good. Misfits is a bunch of rookies of than kaban vander reserve k. I know isn't a rookie. But like he was very hot and cold last year. So we'll see i'm rooting for him. I think fanatics going to win it. But i'm putting misfits as my official prediction. I action the other person who put misfits here. I else put fanatic. And i really actually think misfits might win this one. I think reckless is a massive hole for fanatic. I think that's a huge huge issue. He's been as far as i'm aware like the backbone behind this team for year after year after year and replacing amid later so you've got to carry positions outside of self-made who is a carry in his own. Right especially right now in the meta and you got to replace those and figure out how the game's going to look and fanatic. Last year took literally the whole year to figure out how to play league of legends. I think misfits just has less to figure out right. I mean so you do have well. I guess we have large coaching. Changes on both sides official coming into misfits being the new general manager over there and then we have yamato cannon coming in as fanatic coach. Which with these pieces. I think d'amato can do a lot of good work And he's always shown at least strong performances. A keep keep in middle of the pack yet. I mean like you were saying definitely should be able to saying reckless like that is the definition of a franchise player pretty much like eighteen. Captain someone that you have built a team around for years like that it cannot be understated. How big of a hole that is to fill in a team. Yeah and i don't know how big of a voice the rest of the players have. So i don't know what what's filling whatever void that both nemesis and recklessly behind them. So we'll find out. How resilient team do. They adapt to what they've got et. Cetera et cetera. I think this is really going to be good match. I'm excited for both this and g to mad more than anything else so really stoked for this on friday saturday. Shoko four verse excel. I'll take this one. I've got excel everyone else's shell co for i think just based on what we saw at the end of the year. The slight upgrade of schulkin may like this makes a lot of sense. I don't even know if i'd argue. It's an though. I really like oto. The changes that shell could made. Don't make them much worse than they already. Were an excel. We're still not sure what to make of them. I think however there's a difference of momentum. Here shoka ended the season kind of on a low they had a really high peak and then just kind of crashed and burned whereas accel feels like they were constantly building and building and building. They miss yeah. They have a two year plan. That's the idea behind their identity. It's the idea behind their makeup as a team. And i think that gives them a little bit more closure a little bit more stability coming into a brand new season. They don't have to build on something improve themselves. They have something solid stable to build upon. And they're still bunch of young players and they've got a great great bought lane. Who absolutely love and i think this is a team that can be reliable enough to make playoffs. The split and i'm really pulling for them is a lot of a homeward pick. Absolutely but i do think it's also picking on the volatility that shell schulkin showed the entirety of last year vitality versus misfits. Jacks he gets to cover this baby. A million. this one is just vitality is a big question. Mark their top lehner's new but so is misfits the rest of them. Were kinda hit or miss last year. So i'm rooting misfits. 'cause i'm me but also i think this is a much more reasonable game to predict misfits to win until vitality wins a game. It's hard to predict them. They're one of our predicted worst teams. They will definitely pick up individual wins and we should all get memed every time that happens. Because that's just how things work but yeah. This is a team that has not shown much of anything and misfits. Looks like they'll be pretty fucking good. Assuming they're assuming everything goes as planned mad lions versus. I'm not even going to talk about this. Yeah we've already talked about how little we like strauss as a roster as a team as an everything. Mad lions yeah. They got some rookies but they do have a core. that's returning. that should be pretty good. They've got great coaching etc etc. We've all got mad across the board s k versus g to this. Y'all this is called this is the original l. Classic oh these are the actual to spanish organizations going at this four fanatic versus g to this is before even youtube versus august k. Oh right by mistake. I keep forgetting the new king round that long ago but it is also lots new team versus also lots of spirit of old speed a to classical how about that will roll with that one. I watched a you spirit. What is a christmas past. The spirit of teams passed. I work with that. We'll keep working with workshop at we all got you to cross the board s k versus was our stinker of the gay a stinker of the day on friday it's distinct still remains with straw or with s k due to should be handily wiping the floor with them fanatic. Verse rogue is going to close this out for the l. e. c. weekend saturday morning for most of us. I'm pretty actually hyped for this. Matchup rogue made some changes. I think pretty solid we all really like what we see from them fanatic. I think is going to take some time to gel. Odin your thoughts on fanatic. Chris rock. I've got rogue i think the upgrades their upgrades and i. I don't know the regular season was better for rogue last year so maybe it will do the same again. We'll see. I mean it's it's a hard. It's hard both teams are good looking good. And we haven't seen this match should be close from expectations. This should be the best match. The week for alesi should be the closest in terms of what we think they are on. Yes exactly all of this stuff. It's you can tell they. Were very to like say anything. We really don't have a lot of like to talk about each matchup because we literally have no of knows what things to talk about. We have nothing. We went over kind of what these at teams individually look like already last week. You should definitely take a look at that episode. If you haven't already to hear our thoughts on the rosters as they stand on the back room on everything that we think we're seeing for these teams and it's really hard to take that and translated into something on the rift because like said we haven't seen these teams on the rift now. This is all pure speculation. We're going off complete assumptions. And it's hard to say. Well you know here's champion pulls this is championship pools this because some of them like we haven't actually seen play and their positions. There's a lot of rookies others like we don't know what the champion pool difference is going to be. Also the champion change from last year and most of these teams like reliably decent at those play. Those teams are at those characters. Excuse me so far. Did and they've had a couple of months now to figure shit out and unlike an a. There's not a lot of import problems in llc. Hey we might see some subs. It's this is the roster ish megawatts will go for it. Forget about it. That's all i got in that voice so this is going to be really fun. I'm really excited to see some of these teams. I'm excited to see some of the new rosters as they gel. I'm stoked to see some new rookies. Lez always has a couple of rupees. Rookies that just pop the fuck off. I'm hopeful that they're on the mad lines or potentially on excel the likelihood of that being the case is probably pretty low. Given how many other rookies there are. We might see vitality suddenly rise to the top of the pack. We've seen more surprising things. And i would love for one of these teams. That were absolutely shitting on now to make us eater on words because they pop off. So here's to hoping here's to you l. e. c. and welcome back all right. If you want to join the conversation. If you wanna be part of the cast. Ian they should be following us out our discord lincoln lincoln right now. If you haven't already it's going to be awesome we also have. I didn't mention it before. We have a little feedback section on the discord so you can give us feedback and we have a show show show suggestion channel. C can give us ideas that you think we should do on our show. If we like them we might do exactly. We've done it before. If we don't like them we still might do them specifically because we don't like end so if you just suck go into the feedback channel and just tell us how much you hate us. Yes please do. I want to hear directly from you. We are trying to keep that Surfer a little bit more positive than the other one. So this voice call if you want to. Yeah just keep it in voice rather than. That'd be beautiful. Definitely hit us up on their follow us on twitter. If you are already we could definitely use the boost worst. Use it a little bit more. I've gotten a little bit more handle on my own Time spent as we continue to grow all the community stuff. I'm hoping to utilize everything we've got just to kind of grow a little bit. Put our name out there. Get other people involved. People like canvas super awesome to have him on the show. He's an upcoming castor. He's doing all sorts of things. He's been talking with riot about some opportunities as well. People like cg meco who's been awesome enough to come on the show and actually dig it rehired by g to work with the academy team for the upcoming year. Which i'm really excited for him. For and i love to see him grow and all of our friends the show. We love to see them grow a lot so help us help them. By elevating our voice we can continue to elevate. There's totally appreciate it. The biggest thing you can do for us this new season starts is tell your friends and the second biggest thing you can do is give us the nicest review you can wherever you listen to this podcast. We'd love obviously a five star review if you can't give that to us than definitely right in our suggestion box rather than submitting your own review because we want only five stars may be but that's gonna do it for us. Thank you guys for listening to us. We would not do this every week. Without y'all carrying listening sending a suggestion sending us playing games with us and everything and all things so thank you. We love you and we'll see you next week.

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The Dive | "Let's Get Ready To..."

The Dive

1:37:05 hr | 4 months ago

The Dive | "Let's Get Ready To..."

"Elo etta welcome to the die presented by honda season. Five episode sixteen. This is the f- pursued immediately. Holloway cloud nine's glorious three zero stemp he'd to victory sumo tournament an evil and may pose. We're not just going to ignore this was that we're gonna ignore the kobe episode or something. Yeah well we can address that but first things for anybody even do care. We goes through what he does. I'm just saying the master plan worked out perks. It is one to power spike week to perks as well. You know like all the all the memes and the prophecies came true as planned. It was it was an absolute banger. Absolute banger great job. Kobe episode was funny as well. I'm gonna have to go back and check. The tapes Me just cracked honestly. Though groups were were packed with a lot of good stuff. Right if we're going off of the the north american thread and memes ozanich tournament. was added to north america residency for their players. And yet they now get their first team through which is what basically was the play in stage to the main stage and congratulations to penton net. Let's go round of applause. All around honestly also had cool upsets from you know paying gaming got a lot of a lot more competitive games and winston within than having the past Dfm as well today giving don wanna run for their money. every game. they played them getting the win. Off of cloud nine If we add vietnam two worlds Plan stage. I'm actually really excited for plant states this year for world you know with the with the performance of these wildcard regions thus far at msi groups age and hopefully oh my god Vietnam will be able to actually come as well. It's actually going to be filled with. I think it's it's going to be amazing. I mean one of the things that i really hit home. I think both watching. Msi and prepping for this tournament as well is how good a lot of these players are mechanically. Now i think that in the past it was much more common for for the the major region teams just slam the games through leaning face just because the basic skills were not on the same level. Right you know now. That seems so much less common. These guys are really up their game. I think mechanically almost across the board and it's getting more and more difficult to continue being them right now. It's more things that i think are are less obvious like the decision making macro plays you know maybe not all five in the murray strong individually in these types of things but i i've been really impressed and i agree koby especially with the fm Their support. Because i think it's steel is going to become resident so gang up in a believe is mixed up that they're going to be having so they should be even stronger vietnam. We haven't gotten to see a while they've been looking really good. The pcs has been looking good. So i i think it's really really exciting. Got some mark. Zale hit with the dfm works. I i was definitely gonna say that like on the point about like individual mechanics. Reasons that people are losing anymore. It's like well. They should have won the first time. They've played terrible decision at triple at the third hip you know and it's like those areas are falling short now. As and even this game they played it was scrappy back and forth their playoff versus the former world champions sale. It's not that funny. I just cracking me up. This is getting good that you can even do like the push a little. Yeah the little pushups up. Just say. I think it might actually work. It's going to work best for sale. Because he's got the ball as well as i say a lotta evil mastermind if we go to the movies. Okay if we go by the movies dr evil you know what about what about the cool ball people like you know. We got been diesel. We've got some sweet stuff. You know the transporter. I was definitely bad. So those are some big dubs. Football people are. We got some six apple. Podcasts reviews the meta the meta shifting. Never saw this one coming. We've got a few this week. This one comes for mr travvy. X. d. says diva's peak league legends content. Will now the jail. Xp is gone at least portland out for jazz. Also mark deserves more recognition. I mean look at his hair. Zale more shots at the ball guy. I see. there's a trend here on this episode. We got another one here. This one's from caldera eight fifty seven diva's great love the show. Never miss an episode coming in with the meta breaking counter pick. Marcy is the best on the show. He brings the best analysis the funniest jokes. No offense the other guys back and not standby with all these. One sided reviews once again. Great show catholic. Kobe five-star last one. Here this is how to break them in. This is everyone's idea ever ever had enough of the markazi abuse marks the al farhi of the dive pulled down by four recile deep and now wow grow to the all right five stars. They for the reviews. Good like this. I made a lot of alta cows. This week's i'm not working. Msi for the main broadcast. I had a lot of time to make other accounts. And make all these reviews as you noted as i didn't have many much variety in them. They're all kind of like break. The meta marks cool i. This is interesting. You know 'cause unprompted. We had the initial review like the initial meta bros marks. See that's how you got onto onto the show and now you gotta you gotta praise marcy. So i'm interested to see what the gold medal will be going forward here. I mean this is classic. Internet reverse circle jerk cirque one way and then always. It's just the way the internet works. It's coming back the other way baby marks on top. Let's go your times are not gonna last long because moment in the spotlight for everyone just like wait a minute. Wait much hype over same thing markets way too much credit on the time all right you can leave us your reviews on apple podcasts. I love the one these week right onto the msi meta there was so much talk about what was going to change. You know what picks we're going to be the hottest coming into. Msi this week were the big standouts for you. Guys leave solo lane baby. Let's lay it down right off the bat. We add a bet brewing. We we talked about this before the show started sales. Going to try. And weasel his way. I always technicalities air Mark as the impromptu judge for the situation he is a partial is also been voted by viewers as the best part of the show. So i get a man. You can trust all right so kobe wants you for people who don't know what was the and what is his defense afterwards. So the bet was on is so lane sin was going to be successful and prominent. Msi and honestly it wasn't. It wasn't just the doubts about this. I saw the comments as well. People are like You know. Kobe agree with your take. I don't think koby solo q. Israel indicative of pro player. I remember yeah if you if you know the right things to look for in so look you. Every strategy starts solo. Q i you know. It doesn't actually just start in pro play. You just have to look. You know not things anyways. I was very pro. Leeson willing to bet on it but we never came up with a bet. So we don't we didn't have we'll figure something out if you if you want me to pay up you know i don't wanna be women out on the bet but for me. The main thing was. I didn't think it was going to be prominent middling top lane. I felt like fits in more. Because it's more of like the standard bruiser tankeea style whereas i didn't think people would play at mid because i think it changes fundamentally the way you have to play the game you know. Removing control mejia's removing more. The team fights style and a lot of teams aren't comfortable playing. You know the rent actions. Ms and that sort of stuff. We did see some lisa mid. We've got four of it. A three of them were from chas and seren played one game so it is in their none none of the kind of like tournament favorites have played it yet. But i'm going to be excited to see if that develops because it's definitely. I'm all on board the plane. Leeson hype train. I think that's of their. I've been interested in though that the pros all seem to think that it's just garbage for jungle but in solo. Cue to talk about sola. You point that you'd made it's actually dominating you know it's the highest win. Rate of the three roles by far is actually jungle even when you're looking masters plus the highest levels it's like fifty six fifty seven percent win rate last i check so it's definitely crushing it in solo q. But i've seen a number of jungle as adema cy talking about how is just trash in the jungle right now but it's interesting because you know perks in his interview. After they actually had qualified you know he mentioned how everyone coming into the tournament. Also thought ooh dear was trash and that it wasn't going to be the met at all and now he's like well it turns out still the best. So yeah i of bone to pick with that because everybody did definitely not think that was that everyone thought heck room was dead and those two are misquoting slightly. Maybe i don't wanna to his mouth definitely some wiggle room there but you know serbo chem tank getting nervous Was the was the only like real directed towards you. Dear you got some attacked average stuff feeding san stuff take previously but yeah he's still just fine clears justified as well and still get the damn fast so all right so we have to think chaz for being a fan of the dive and making sure that as a loses the bet he'll be doing the leeson dance He's going to recreate you got to be able to do some flips. We'll get some wires. Attach good were marker like the choice. I'm welcoming our new overlord. Mark the new era here on the dive. Let's keep it going. I mean you've got to pass some reasonable policies. First before you tighten the grip on. Okay you gotta make the monkey dance. I was going to be in for you. Go with the populist on the on the medicine moving on from the best we all agree that they will be doing something The rumble was really interesting. Because that was like the super high pick coming in it was probably most often about it was terrorizing q. As well and it started to be played a lot and it still is played a lot but it felt like especially on the last day some of the later days the priority rumble dropped from being. I pick must first pick kind of thing to you. Know being taken a little bit later and you know even like for example was just take the into instead. I have a theory that it's because while the champions raw power is insanely high rumble is not like the easiest champ the world clears easy and like you can generally press the buttons kinda run at people but like maxim and like. Get your over your alz and everything correctly. It's actually pretty difficult. Is somewhat difficult champion. So i think it's something that the true potential might not be unlocked by a lot of jugglers picked him up two weeks ago. I'm wondering how many here's my take on your take which i have heard a decent amount of people come up with and i have been spamming. It three i know my soul cube fans. Don't trust it. It's okay that's fine but Been saving it one guy who said the oil. I know my soul acute doesn't matter. I see you but i'm willing to take the compliment for mark because i literally so rumble. Jungle is not a brand new thing okay. There have been multiple years in the past where rumbled jungle has popped. Its head up. It hasn't been nearly to this degree because it was not center as far as past plus or anything like that I play the contracts. I played and a lot both those guys pride themselves on the rumble jungles You know. I think it was two thousand and eighteen. Maybe the most recent one regardless island. I'd never picked it up at that point other surges of rumble jungle. But now i had to jump into because all pro players spamming it. It was so big and my first three games. I just cruise to victories so like if it's that hard maybe random jobs will go back door or big like the only tricky thing is deciding on if you want to smart cast or not smart cast your ultimate and. I do recommend if you have not played rugby for to have it. Not smart cast so that you can get a feel for the range. But i quickly turned turned to marcus. And it's like i know people sometimes complain it. It's not that hard. Right coming up and visualizing where ahead of time you're going to want it is the hard part and finding those really good rumble ultimate s-. That's definitely a skill But once if you have the brain power. I don't think the mechanics of it take too long to actually master and then the rest of it is just like okay. You're oftentimes intentionally overheating in the jungle. And that's just mashing all your all your t.'s. Intentionally overheat on the buff so that you percent max. Hp just nail this a buff and with the extra tax speed so it hasn't it hasn't been too hard the first couple times i maybe mismanaged he Like once or twice accidentally. Silence yourself when you want to alter or something like that But it's actually really easy to get to the fifty heat threshold for the bonuses and easy overall to use it my actually take on it. Was that people because it was so prominent in all of these prominent figures like rumble is busted. Everyone's like agreeing here. Rumble buster busted number one. Everyone just takes it too far and sometimes you forget that this synergies of champions are still incredibly important yes rumble is super bust and a lot loaded into his get now. He clears like a monster. In addition to his previous strengths and some people have been overlooking the previous strengths and synergies setting up hard crowd control to keep people on the rumble ultimate. So many times we've seen games whereas rumble with like nobody else has hard. Cc so you okay. I'm clear pretty quick but there's a lot of other champions that clear quickly right now. Rumble does have really doing power. But the biggest coolest part about rumble was always these like. Oh shit is chinese. Got rebel jarvi again. We're coming all these cool names and you have rumble with other giant aol. We heart see siege that team. Yeah so i. That's what i think is like it should be super high priority but you should not drop your your main constructive. Your theory crafting on setting up with the super strong synergies to actually get the most of it. I think we're seeing teams kind of You know get into that nuance now rather than just like. Oh my god. Everybody said this is the most okay. We'd better i pick it type of deal so jarve and four mid come into pro game near you soon. So jargon is actually more likely cause side aside from jungle the most recent jarvis were support jarvis But i don't think it's that specific example is super likely at all. I think the heart is coming in other forms. That are a lot easier. Leona nautilus galileo. You can also put rumble mitt. Romney was actually really good mitt right both in you. i think it should work in pro So that is the other option I tend to think it's it's it's still strong pick. I think people are being very action every one way and now the other way you know as far like oh it's insane it's trash you know. I do think that there was a number of pros. Who who were pretty poor with equalisers like it's it's not that hard to place. I agree with you kobe. I've played a number of myself. The forethought right. Yeah like do you do it. Horizontally or a long someone. There was there was number. I can't even remember the exact game but it was a rumble. Jungle against illusion. I think it was maybe against lions. I want to say where it kept. It kept us like being put in a way where he could just dash to the side instead of having a run back through it as they're trying to engage and like cutting off the path that you're pushing them into things like that are more important so i think it's still gonna be in there and i still think it's really strong is for sure really strong. I do think it'll be dropped below the like god like you always have been on red or gets into i. I'm predicting john as well better at it. It goes back up and priority More as well deserved to be named lights as we. I talked to the stuff that we talked about in our last minute. Talk coming into. It has actually come true so how we do it this way. Have there been any surprises. Because i think these common things have been talked to death. Dob morgado has really good clear. She can double clear on. I think you know. I think that has been good and solid. Unit has actually been rising priority in silla q. But i didn't wasn't sure that we would see it right. And i'm not sure if anyone else will see it over with more just like chaz special but those those did surprise me. That was pretty Do you have any mark. Because i have. I have one as well from watching the just solo q. Accounts from e. u. s. I'm hoping that kiana gets in here. and we heard some interviews afterwards to where Directly after his jonah game. He was like okay. Yeah you kind of in a lot matchups after go into it willing to sacrifice a lot of cs and then and try and play on your power to get those bills. The ultimate is always going to be insane. And johnny is one of those champions that has core tenants in her kit. That are very valuable for any any stage of league solo q. Pro play doesn't matter clash normal games How has it on. Ram is l. Yeah because i'm like the walls are not there so match. Maybe like the middle of the map to the side because it's so fat but still not that good medicine. Maybe maybe zoe was seen a little bit more than i initially thought she was. And i mean like when the games against it was annoying just like she's like all over the map in tends to. If you're control measures she has some good match. Some of them so Timmons was an incredible zoe. He was popping off really hard and then a couple of the people. Pick it up so it was a little bit more than i than i thought we were gonna see zoe. I like to that is always in the game. You can always throw out. You can always thought that that hail mayor that cautionary tale and you could like well. They may be behind zoe. Trouble bubble could win them game. At some point you speak. You went on a gary. Where were you gonna say though mark. I thought you were going to say about the deals. They were twos. We bearing already. I think without and both with and without summer spell book as well one of them wasn't even with summersville book paddle star doing a decent amount of davidge one thing. I am a little bit curious about is. Are we actually going to see. Some more of the lake. There was talk about jinx and even cog coming into the tournament we a couple jinx game. One game it's been basically engage only with like a couple of tom. Catch games in there you know alongside virus and that's a little bit different But i'm anxious to see if there will be development with. Disengage supports like if we get anything. Anything like in chantiers alongside cog or alongside jinx. I i think that's selena. Kind of curious about two for me that actually hinges on the success of these top line tanks. 'cause we saw cloud nine super successful back to back Fudge on top lane. You know damone. Kia is ready to combat some tanks. They'll be a hell. Yes so there's defe- possibility there. Because of your friday toback stuff like jinx steph like caucus is also rise already all right so Onto the honda. Mvp section here for the honda mvp. Today we're gonna take a twitter question. This comes from robb at bp. Robin hauser aerobics. Who is the best player not from a major region at the tournament so far. Who made an impression on you during the tournament. Oh there are so many. I'll i'll let go go ahead mark. Not your the overlord okay. I'll take the layup every from dfm. He's pretty consistently good for a little while now actually made a number of international tournaments in a row and every time he just gets a little bit better. But he's been hyped up quite a bit now and i think he looks pretty legit and so he's probably the one that was the most impressive just outright but i also feel like he had gone more hype than some of the other people that will probably talk about as well which you gotta zale so is not counted as a major region anymore. Officially right so so. Do you think dog was actually really quite good. I think he he impressed me. I think holy phoenix as well to. Adp's that i thought played really really well for their team You know they're two of the is farmers. I think they lane. Well i think they team fought well largely in general like i said earlier. I just think a lot of these guys have really impressive mechanics and it was. It was fun to watch. Yeah i really like especially holy. Phoenix are willing to play these. These wind lane win game type of champs like elissa and samir stuff. I was so freaking side of the first game that we got and they banned they triple banned him and then he pulls out This amira a pops off as well. So i yeah. There are just so many individual players A major regions. That really impressed. I like actually call out a dog. Oh for Because the after the first game we had this one where he just like stares down the nautilus hook and gets hooked and You know they they lose off bottom line. I was like oh shit but he just popped off game after game after game after that and was was in a lot of the games actually the most impressive player on that team Which is saying lot since. I have a pretty big bias towards maple with all With all its history so definitely agree. There i'm going to choose a to net player Because these guys nobody gave them any sort of credit coming in including myself bio pet. There i thought was sick. Even when we were talking is deemed talking we mostly focus on pablo because of his all experience. Because it was why champion pool you know because of the way ally their games with i thought bile stepped up really big for the team as well. I mentioned it as well with this. I've only shadowed tin owns. Because i think they lost that game and i think it was their first one against mad lions but just like that was the performance so sick that game and it sucks. I don't. I don't think that game but it was. It was just incredible to watch him. Like and i think afterwards kaiser. An interview was like yeah. That was crazy. It was really scary. It was also a lot of watching the games and seeing all their fans popping off on twitter. Everything yeah yeah rob say and all that stuff like the community is pretty insane. So it's definitely fun to see that grow our we're gonna talk about the rumble stage. Obviously be talking some about the group games but we're going to be kind of looking forward towards the rumble stage and the teams that qualified. The games that they played during group stage demoin aren g mad. Lions cloud nine. Psg m. penton g g. Those are the six qualifiers and guess what let's get right into the meat of it then because right after this is still the same day that dom one is looking very very mortal very very Fallible as as a team and it feels like they are going to have to revert some of the champ selects where. We're getting out into a lot of new territory. And they didn't seem comfortable with it. And so that's why. I'm like i actually expect a big a big reversion for someone to see their elsie k style. And they did it. You know already. Some of these Group stage games and yet we still a bit even to slow losing a lot of ground in the early game You're getting picked off in different places. Some of the team fights actually weren't even as clean as we expect from this team Previously everyone's like don juan number one for sure maybe there's like a decent percentage that we're going for l lp k no brainer. Obviously they're gonna be topped two regions and yet coming into this one l. p. l. Their group looks so much easier you know. Obviously they'll also only had three teams so it was. It was more repeat stuff after felt like you had a gun a good picture of it And then and way more Way more open if the tournament feels way more open just over all. Yeah i think so. I mean i was one of the people who was predicting dom onto. Probably take it and i mean tournaments are long people look at certain parts and then get drastically better. We've seen that world's planes and then those teams somehow make it out of groups and they're like winning the so that can always happen but right now our angie's playing better right now. They're the better team through this week. And then the next week as we will flip back to on. But i think orange is the new favourite after that. I know we talk about like the level of competition. And i don't want to put pen to. But they were lacking the bcs who was supposed to be the pool two group or pool you seed for their group and that would have made it much more competitive. I think have been harder for tonight to get out as well as maybe would seem so challenge. Angie a little bit more because they just seem ruled their group but how we've seen the other major region teams struggle against their will fourteen. Excuse me. I think it's fair to say they are. Angie just looks the best even even just saying like okay yeah. They don't have their pool but just look at their wins over the pool. Three and pull four ones much more dominant and i think that they play the end of the best. They have not really struggled on individual level. The their team decision making has been really really crisp as well as just individual dominance and they were doing it with like with who never won just like picking up new stuff along the way to let me put on my hat and go curveball. Then mark guess. What are angie didn't beat any pool one seeds did they cloud nine did checkmate. Three zero boom lawyered best team for orangey. I mean it's tough like orangey played cleanest games that's not close but also think that you will regressed a lot. I think that You know they were a lot weaker regionally and they looked a lot weaker internationally. So you know really. You're in a group that is probably the weakest group that there's ever been internationally So you know they did dominate the group. You can't like. I can't take anything away from our angie but i also my opinion is not affected at all like my pretournament feelings on our angie are not affected at all by them beating up on penton. And you'll well. I think pinton played above expectations. I think you will play below expectations and those were the only two teams in the group and is clearly heads and shoulders above and they just kinda beat up on them. You know when. I look at at the other two groups they were just way more competitive so the fact that mad troubled more the fact that don juan struggled more as the other pool one teams. Just make sense to me i think. Dfm looked better than penta net as well as you. Well cloud nine. I think looks stronger as well than those other teams right. Psg clearly looked. i think stronger. Even you mentioned pain looking a lot more competitive almost taking a game off matt right so i just feel like the other groups In a war more competitive. And and that's why. I at least for me like my pre-tournament expectations aren't really that shaken dominant did look a lot more vulnerable. But it is best of one and even the interview about trying to experiment a little bit with some picks and find their style. And i do still feel pretty confident. That don one is going to come out and look a lot more dominant in phase two Once they have kind of like they're established read on the meta especially knowing that tanks becoming back in. Kobe was mentioning. You know if they wanna play. That's i'll the there's still a pretty incredible team. Just real quick to on the on the group being the weakest group ever I think there's a lot thing that things that go into that. Yes just as you mentioned vietnam pool. Two seed isn't there in it. That's already going to be a huge blow but then also both the other teams had their regions. Had stuff to to even. Just be here. Ozanich region obviously a lot of the players exported And so that was a huge blow. That's why expectations were so low and for unicorns of love to your point of them looking worse. That's why coming into this. I was so sad that they lost the gadget. And then they had to go through this. This eighty kerry swap where where you going with Trying to go with the french eighty carry having the language problems and then bringing bringing a lot of who still in school. He's at this moment like working on his masters while he's playing an msi. Apparently he's thesis that this time. He's yeah his his time is divided. Okay a. plus. He was on a break from league because he was dedicating full-time to school previous to that. So it's these these things that you had to overcome for for these opponents plus the fact that they don't don't even have the team. I don't think anyone should be offended by that. But it is the fact of the matter right so yeah and i think to that point like that's why i wouldn't say orangey like flew up. In my opinion. I don't think it changed at all heading into preseason or expectations. The real reason is because looked worse. We're skipping over groupie a little bit here. But as the what was the retirement number one like you know. I don't even care really about group. It was it was weird. Orangey stopped at great. What happened with don juan. And why were they struggling Really hard they should have lost the game to dfm who are good like they should have lost that game even their second game was pretty scrappy for a portion of the time stuff like that. You know the fact obviously nine. I think raises way more doubt In what they're up to and like you're saying best ones this happened before with teams who who struggled more during these portions and stuff like that but they definitely look like. They're struggling a little bit. Yeah i i wanna use specifically their first game vs. Dfm as the example of you know nlc k. You you wouldn't get so worried. Even if they had a little deficit in the beginning of the game because you had so much faith and then being able to set up for the mid game objectives performed so well in. These team fights con- always on his tank. Bring him down and yet in that game they only one because because dfm rushed it at the finish line that game they had to have that opening of the fm rushing into the shockwave. Wave into the aol. At the very end there. Right over the last inhibitor. turret And and it was just not it was not this sense of control or the structure that you're used to thinking of when you're watching donlon games and they're going by the books so i think that is where a lot of people's faith in the team was shaken. I still think you know individual play. looks looks pretty strong for them. They showed at multiple points within the group. They still very capable of setting canyon up for a lot of jungle domination There were still a lot of these early games. Where you know. He steals away for rapper. Camps in a row or something like that So again. Yeah i do. Think they have a return to form but They've definitely shed that shell of invincibility that they kind of felt like they were coming into the tournament wages because they dominated elsie case so heavily. Yeah i mean for for me. I had some problems with their drafts and draft an early game or the two biggest focuses for me for one You know. I think to speak about nine a bit. You know you mentioned the the near loss. Dfm the first game was competitive as well. And then kinda hit a point. You know between cloud nine. Excuse me. And don juan it hit a point where fudge cada couple times in the jungles and fights broke out. Things went bad but cloud nine. I felt like pretty heavily out scaled in that first game and have the game on a couple more minutes. I could've looked bad and it kind of felt like that happened As well in the second game but called nine held on and kind of hit that critical mass where he hits four five six eight times. The game gets incredibly difficult to actually play out. Victor has range and a lot of these champion. Start to get a lot more difficult to play With shorter range over on the dumb one side playing with silas playing with casa As opposed to victory. Swells that asana. And i do agree that there was obviously mistakes. And i'm not trying to paint over that overlook. That just to me. Because when i when i washed like the individual levels of play it's still felt really high. It felt more about how how they were drafting. And what their focus was in game rather than something that they couldn't fix right And that's kind of why. I still have confidence in them. That they'll they'll be able to adjust their approach and they'll be able to come in with a little bit of a different look because it's not like these players haven't played aggressively in the past right like this year. They were very slow in the l. c. k. but You know in in the past. They have had more aggressive. Look when that was the meta. So i think we'll see some adjustment from them coming into the rumble stage and i'm kind of excited to see that. But i wanna talk about cloud nine of it. If if unless you get a little more one more thing. I onto dom one. I decided to make a call back to when we our previous episode coming in msi. I also said because coma. Is the coach. Look out for testing in group stages they psycho to this team. They also got who men do and okay they. They definitely dropped a bit more and and had a few more weaknesses hours expecting But kobe has a history of this. So it's not out of the realm of expectation now. Struggle bus was all that unique pictures of nautilus. Sorry go ahead. no no get in. That was i was. I was going to say like some of these things are like. Yeah huge all draft. Something a lot of the players on reforms to do their own expectations. Little to show maker getting caught out of position trying to take fights not knowing where people were going to end just getting blown up quite a few times to him so i think that they can improve speaking of nine going through the first half of the round robin their players are making a lot of individual mistakes which went away on today to be able to snag that three. Oh and get out of the group so obviously individual play can can rise and fall over very short periods as well. There are two things that i wanted coming into today. One obviously blabber clean up the mess clicks the stopwatch thing that's like either had the wrong key binding or fat fingered or whatever Clean up the little things that you could fix and practice tool like the spots for double farming camps. Clean up the this. Is this grab do things. As i said the fourth second thing that team it's a malaver was one of the things. Okay that was all one thing. The second thing. I know my figures for the second thing is that i wanted to see have a dominant late-phase funds after dominant topside. Guess what he did lease. It was like one i want to say in one fell swoop leeson smashing it and in the hands of afterwards some people were trying to make it sound like oh like he smashed lane phase con con. Was like you know that's not true. Concha was still pushing in jason's you're supposed to do. He was still mining turk plates by hand but it was more with the plays later. That fudge made such a big impact as well as on the gangs set up for the gangs blabber with the first flash in being able to get that kill you lands the q. Everything like that. So i i got exactly what i was looking for from cloud nine today. streaming the other day and everyone kept on coming in How do you feel with all these player interviews about everyone. Flaming cloud died. You think they're gonna get out. Are you on kofi and blah blah blah blah. All this stuff know. It was kind of overwhelming wave. And so i was definitely relieved. I guess to see some of that. Resurgence from from them so quickly i feel like because there have been a lot of international tournaments in the past where the north american representative all have honestly similar thoughts of Ways that they can clean it up or improve or whatever and then it doesn't happen in time. how many. How many times have we been the same situation. And yet we're sweating bullets to the end and we lose a tiebreaker. Or something like that every time. After the first three days you know the post game fill like blabber any must suck and it's like no he's just he's underperforming well you know whether a bad games pressure whatever you know. We can't really say on the outside. But the extrapolation of that so far she attacking like senile and like how good they were. It was insane especially just one tiny little interjects here especially was funny. Seeing people use the scuttle crab example while saying the argument that bladders looking bad now because he's a against better competition. I'm what the hell are you saying. The ms scuttle crab is more alluring than the north american scuttle crab. Shut your mouth. The north american scotto crab is just as a learning. Okay that's the competition. Did not make him him do that. The other thing that was great was the unification of jugglers. That came together over that. I know the raising their hand. I've done it. you wouldn't get it. You know that thing like that. Play in yankus popping off so hard like no one st jungle dipping against. Yeah yeah is so funny to see that is very unifying on the journalist coming together and then just everyone just coming in a it was insane to be like the minor regions. Were throwing like hella shade. Like anyone can get out of group. C except c-9 like ought to be really really that that hard like so sweet vindication a little bit to be like listen. Listen we're north america. I'm not gonna say we don't have our problems in our struggles but like the degree that it got to was like. This is insane. How trash people just assume that that is i mean. I think it's honestly just like it's just engaged with beijing at a certain point. It's just one of those things that if if you go to. Www dot twitter dot com and you type in any minor region lull. You're gonna get some likes and some re tweets and i think it's like it's not a lot more than that at a certain point where people people wanna make these false equivalency. Kobe's talking about the talking about the skull crowd play as liked justification that the mvp lcs is trash and therefore the lcs is trash. And all this sort of stuff. It's like unless you're trying to make the argument here that. Msi jugglers have the ability to mind control. Their opponents into inting at the school crab like that's not a not a an example that really holds any water And and so it's definitely vindicating. It feels good That they had a really strong performance in in what was the toughest group by far right on the second second. Set of games right. I'm not going to defend the first set of games. There were some really poor performances. Beiber was awful. Th they flew some stats. I can't remember it was when you're casting the first set but it was like a at whatever ten or fifteen something like that you know. He was plus four hundred and then. Msi in the first three games who was like negative nine hundred fifty or nine hundred eighty or something like that like his earlier have been awful right and and it was bad play. It was maybe a bad read. He did get interviewed and he talked about how he felt like The mistake was going for for picks that can't fight early. They can't form fast You know like the kindred. I think is mostly what he was talking about has scaling but then he was up against a more ghana. He got absolutely put so far behind us. Couldn't keep pace in the jungle. So you know. He felt that it was mostly off of the reader. At least that's where he can't before the interview. I don't think his day today was perfect. There was still some silly stuff The invade on the marana death was little bit careless. I mean the wildcats game. I guess it was at the end like care less about because it was like everything was already decided and so it was it. Was it twenty. One kills on jus- card nine side. It's twenty one minutes but there was some sloppy stuff around scuttles there to specifically for the more gonna invade. This is actually two times now. Because i i like talking about specific plays and specific strategies here as examples. There have been two times. I don't remember the exact What the other team was. But i'm sure that you'll also remember it was split map and the team defended instead of agreeing to the split map right when you laid invade on your opponents other side in an attempt to split top versus bottom the other side has the choice to traverse over and try and fight you off off that side. And you can do that if you have the stronger mid and bottom if you're trying to chase them off blue in the in the case that blabber was the one getting chased off year. You can do that if you have the stronger lane priority. And it just this. That is two times of examples from these group. Stage games where that happened. So and i'm glad that one of them was directly to cloud nine. Because i was like. I thought the first one should have been an eye-opener. Hey everybody's not gonna just handshake on your deal that you've decided this split map here and be happy with it. If they have pushing lanes they can come and try and punish you for it. So that thing i should be an eye opener and should reinforce the thing that people have been parenting all season. Long of how important it is to play for jungle for jungle camps. Just because heck room got said whatever glue factory whatever that means people are trying to attack from got screwed right just because of that doesn't mean everything else about the jungle doesn't remain the same. The the core tenets of the jungle are all the same. We haven't had these structural level changes to the jungle yet that they're teasing for next season. Just because the champions are different you still have to focus on that. Don juan do it really well. Mad lions actually do it really well with. Oh ja We haven't gotten to start talking about mad lions but we'll probably start talking about them next. And i think that's one of the things that cloud nine need to refocus on and it seems like today was one of those refocusing points part of the reason why they had stumbled so much in the early parts of the game. Then you could tell like. He was frustrated with blabber with their jungle on the grasp on the meta how to play a rounded all these types of things. i think that was causing cloud. Nine a lot of these problems in their screams and in the stage games And by the way those the they've been having terrible screams for most of the time had. msi which. I think also leads in part to a lot of these interviews where you guys talk about the super catchy like flame titles where people are not sucks ass. They're not getting out. You know if if you six zero them screams or something you know. Maybe you say that too. But i think those those things obviously have been To some degree you know corrected as saw today. I think the i think too. That journalist that you're talking about was the fact that actually fall behind on that because steele didn't play a aggressively enough. I guess you'd say afterwards he kind of just let him go back and farmers hold jungle end up on boss. i get bought. Scotto crab free credit. Call it a free death. Yeah yeah. I mean ended up. He ended up way ahead. Steel that higher game off off of that initial kill because he has like. Yeah you stop the split up but you also abandoned a whole quadrant to run across the map and now you're you're clearing again and i think it just shows that like when you do punish someone and catch him out in the jungle. There's more work that has to be done. You can't just let your foot off the gas. And i think that's what stealing there and blabber do the job covering and i think overall like cloud nine has legitimate strengths to spend bulk of really good all the entire time even when they were losing they were they were usually the best performing and perks has been really good. He's been on half his game. Picks don't have that much agency to victor games. One oriented game and two their losses. Run on those and you kind of just had to sit and watch the team kind of fall apart this victor game again. He's getting doable. The time this was against a dumb one and he was able to actually turn these plays around because blabber was actually even so when they come to game he flashes forward has the the really nice placement of the gravity field to get the double stunned. They get the w. on stuff like that like that was all so sick and then when he has agency perks is absolute clapped. The game the game the lucien game all three were like just hard smurfs game so i think it's not like the who knows exactly we're going to because they could revert a little bit to to go to more to those those initial games and i don't want to pretend like they're in the clear now. Every day is going to be like this three day. They'll probably in some drafts and stuff to again or something or has a bad place. But i think they're clearly much better than what was shown and in their first games and this was the kind of the cloud nine. We're waiting for when we were getting a little excited about them in a yeah i would push back a little bit on the like perks. Only look bad because of the like passive picks because actually his oriana game victor awful from like where he was positioning itself to missing. Basically every shockwave like he was completely absent in their first two games. So i think he deserves some. Some heat for that blabber obviously got a lot of criticism and i think rightfully so i think bob was awful in his first couple of games there. I think perks was amazing. On this donna game but i thought his first two were like he was really underperforming. The lane as you pointed out. I think it was great I'd also say perks. That rebound where he just looked incredible today But also fudge deserves a lot of credit overall has been very good even in the losing games. He's had some bright spots and really nice moments and stuff like is he the best toppling near here. No i don't think so. My opinion has not changed in that way but the steady improvement of budge from the beginning of the year to now has really really impressed me right like it went from. This guy is the worst piece of crap top winner in the league. Like he's going to be the reason you lose every time to like maybe he like gonna lose but not that bad and Maybe he can carry some games alec. You didn't get the alpha. I couldn't even get ahead of them. And now like he had a game where he legitimately really really was a big reason that they want against. Khan who was who most people are pointing to is the best player in the tournament so is better than them no but he has improved leaps and bounds. And it's great to see that he has had confidence on the international stage right to be able to to bus out the lease into play aggressively to not be scared as the youngest player in the lcs that me Gives me a lot of hope. A lot of confidence for this guy's a career in for the rest of the tournament from him. So you know. I'm cautiously optimistic about cloud and i. I don't think that they're tournament favorites. I don't think anyone's going to try to sell you a that bridge. But i do think that you know they. They have a legitimate shot to to make to the knockout stage and be competitive in the best of five and on the best day. Hey what happens right like no one was going to bet on t. l. to be either much for that bridge. How expensive is that bridge bio twelve million for eleven by that sucker for me one of the big points and why it was one of the things i was looking for coming into the day for the two things i remember. Only two laver was that he did it on at least in and some of these plays later on then again you have to make big place you have to get in there with a safeguard. There was one he q. Then safeguard ward hops over to kick on the carry back through the rest of the team. You have to make those plays on lee sin. It's not the same as playing cy on where you can provide a ton of value by ram in your head into people and putting on your shield dying forward. Then you die you get backup. You walk forward again really great. They're really way to get out there and give it your all. I thought that was really important. Plus i really like when you guys were talking about. Perks is actually fudge. Who was doing the missing. Ping's which is it's hype up. Its equivalent of like a lot of times in valerie. It's way more common because your teammates will die. And you'll be the last person and everyone's yelling and hyping you up when you're about the clutch something but league of legends whence your team spams question mark pinzon you after you do a good play to me. That is like it's all the you'll you'll you're like ten million bucks. Oh yeah what happened there you just got styled real tank mechanics you talk about simon mechanics mechanics. He's side leading. He's just watching perks. Question opinion the whole game. I question are paying. But it's usually diamond joel. Embiid context is everything we question. Mark kings it could be. They're hyping yup. Five in a row varies either. Let's move onto my lines though brady juicy on. We were pretty juicy on cloud nine. I'm actually really really hyped now to see how this team performs in the rumble stage because coming into this thing. I was most confident about for mad. Lines was their team fighting execution. And they had some interviews and some of these games after the group stage games where they're like. Oh yeah you know we were just. We've not respecting them But there were errors. The air kind of uncaracteristic errors. I was not expecting to see from his team. Coming in. yes they also they comfortably got through. There was never any real panic for For the fans For for this groups age at least for the team I would say one of the biggest bonuses in surprises for the team is how well karzi was playing and how much more confidently and better. Because as was one of the you things that even even fans would couch against was like okay. What our bottom lines. A little inconsistent like kaiser dominate karzi. Were a little bit. More you know can have can definitely have some off. Games might not be the biggest. Carry all the time He he absolutely popped off and that also allowed people to just throw praise all over kaiser. I was like kaiser's nautilus game. Especially those casting engage after engage after engage setting up so much for his team. So i'm super excited to see this squad and how what how far they can go especially in the stage. Because last year at world's it was the same bottom line they definitely have a to prove humanoid. I think perform extremely well individually as well and we've are already kind of slightly touched on. How well they play with l. Ya and and have that junk the jungle focus for the meta as well as team fight focus for the meta. I feel like their head. Their heads are in their correct space for this. So i think they're in a good place to have. The small adaptations the med evolves in rumble stage. Yeah and i think talking a little bit about like preterm expectations and stuff after the last episode dive and i was like people were putting above them. A number of people did not just kobe. A number of analysts. I didn't put them above them. I said they could contest them. Because you guys they were for sure number one right but other people did put them act like legitimately them question mark and yeah exactly. Actually those actually went in there but it wasn't just like it was. It was a general community sentiment because after in the threat afterwards i was like what is the eu fan perception. Because i was a little disconnected. And i was surprised to see how negative and a lot of ways people were around mad lions because they were saying we'll definitely should get out and then after that we'll be happy to like make quarters and lose gracefully but i wouldn't be surprised if we lost in the in the rumble stage and i was. I was surprised to hear that people are being like. Oh remember g vacation days like it could be like that who knows Because this is the worst thing we've sent in a while that is like are people really that negative like as a region is so much better now than it was in those days. And if you if you consistently if you send g to every year and then you don't send g two and you're like oh well. This is the worst thing we saw out. It's not cheap dealing with a comedown but being like oh. We'll be lucky to like you know we'll be happy if we get out like it is going to get out of the rumble stage. I mean maybe. I'm spoiling predictions here. We'll do that later. But like i was surprised to see people so heavily doubting The general community because they they showed up pretty well. I'd say in the room stage. All things considered like yeah. They had some some if the games where they like through leads but they were really consistent about building and then the games were they did fall behind the also came back in those games. And i think there's a lot of variation that goes on in the best one games and the fact that they were able to weather most of that pretty well and like they have a lot of things that they can still improve on. I'm still saying. Don juan in you know. Our angie are more favored than them. But i i was just really surprised to see how much doubt there was in that that i dive thread. That went up. When i asked like what do you think And so again. I think for the mad lions players. This probably feels really good This thing i know that there are some interviews where they were a little like after some of those games through a little bit but still one they were like but i think overall they had a pretty good showing. I feel like i'm being set up to be the villain here. You guys are going so positive on. I'm honest thoughts. You do the post. Dale try on the poster on the bus. I just think that like so. I think they did fine they. I never doubted that they were going to get out right i had them as as never one. They finished number one. I think that that's all great. You know i'm with you. That i think i i'd be out sage i do think we'd be remissed and not talk about some of the like very clear weaknesses right like they had not only not only did they drop a game. They were really close in a number of other games to losing right including like The game or starting up ended up paying gaming excuse me. pg outdoor game. You know the back the back door where like there was a time djing salt. That would have got them the win. You know there was a couple little things that like. They were like a hairsbreadth away from losing to a team that they're you know massively favorite over had some other competitive games as well right where there was very close and to me like that is not inherently a problem. That was close games. It was more that they're mid game. Throughout the event i think was abysmal. Right like i think thirteen team fighting is great. Big thumbs up early game was great. Big thumbs up there. I think they had a good read. I think played well around elliott. There's lots of positives right. you know. i'm not trying to like jump on the on the hater bandwagon. Here or anything like that. Because i think there's a lot of politics there. But i think we would be remiss in not point out like the glaring weakness that i i i felt like everyone saw which was their mid game their mid game was this like black hole where they would get ahead and then they will do some troll stuff or not necessarily playing well on the map and fall behind right like i want to say which which was the game was it against the wildcats. I think their first game against the wildcats for example. They've got multiple barons and they were like going negative and gold during the baron's because they are not really mashing side lanes. Well it was the same problem when they played against paying gaming in the game. They almost lost their when they were. Actually you know. Playing against robo was blamed the camille and they were kind of refusing to match lanes. There are struggling in the mid game right and so to me like that was a big weakness if they can clean that up. They're gonna look actually really good right. And that's my big question is. This was your glaring weakness. It was a big problem but it's so obvious to me. It's so obvious the team too. So if they can actually improve on that. I think they can challenge these top teams and i think they can really surprise people but i also think if that doesn't get better you don't get to throw away the mid game against orangey or don juan or some of these teams and expect to actually win right and so so that's kind of my takeaways. That like all very positive. Lots of really good things for them but the weaknesses were extremely obvious and pretty consistent throughout almost all their games. I would i go ahead mark. Okay we both did the exact same thing okay. I just want to say that. That's what i was mentioning when talking about their interviews that they're giving afterwards where they're talking about a lot of these instances and they're they're doing the the laughing it off or brushing it off. We didn't respect them that that sort of thing. Those always come with caution for me. because If you let yourself get into that pattern or that mentality some teams can pull themselves out of it. Some teams cannot and some of the uncharacteristic mistakes i mention were actually in team fights. Their team fights were not universally good. There were several of them where they did have these ones where they are. Someone is is far miss position over to the wrong side so that person gets jumped on and they're too big of a deficit within the team fight to salvage and yet they flood in And a lot of those times where against wildcats in the wildcats did very good job of jumping on on those players and on those on those openings even sometimes in a disadvantaged numbers to to get these to get those victory so those are those are some of the things is cautioning against an an alluding to for the beginning because coming into it. I was like yeah that that is being strangers. has been their team fighting but even in that and some of the execution And it does have to do with the timing on setting for some of these Particularly so i think Whipple at the end of the day when they qualified through you know. He said they threw. I think he said so. I think it's a pretty shared opinion that they have very negative unmatched. Every player is probably a little bit of that. Like out there even. Yeah i could play john. Go play top. I could play mid lane a couldn't drag a compliment out of the analyst crag up listening yeah d- it's just like what people seem to do from europe about them. I don't know but they. I think they're better than than i mean. They have those issues like you talked about the game. Obviously get cleaned up the one game. They did lose though. I do give them a little bit of a bit of a passport because it was a weird draft or they have the zoe olaf and afterwards in the interview. They're saying like we didn't really practice with that and we don't we don't really wanna play that I think it was a situation where they had lead that game. They threw it at like some barron bait attempt thing that they're doing it the hard on. I think they were uncomfortable with that draft. And so you know it's not saying everyone has bedr- absolutely lose games. You can't excuse everyone's game losses when they have a bad draft. But i think that was something was like okay. Let's just not pick olaf with zoe ever again probably a pretty easy takeaway and so i think the cleaning up the mid game is a big issue. It's not saying that you just do easily. Like don't pick zoe this an easy fix. This is a hard one. But i think that they have like strong strengths to offset that at least the consistent thing. It's like a different problem than nine. Had where it's like okay. They just didn't show up some days and played outright terrible versus we consistently get leads. We consistently make really good place. We also sometimes we also frequently throw those but then we also recover so like in that sense. Actually think that it's a good problem to have that. It's a consistent problem. You're not just trying to put out fires everywhere everyday. It's a thing. They had a lot of strengths. Right like the good outweighed me by far like i'm not super negative on this team like i'm surprised as well i. I didn't realize your action with the fans kind of had them that negative on the team. When i had asked on twitter at least it was today or yesterday or something. If people were a bit more positive and the expectations rising people were basically saying the must be dna that was like the number one number one response of like. What do you want from elis from mad. Lions have to be and then you know at least semi finals and like have a competitive series seem to be the kind of common consensus which i think. If you're expecting to go against our angie dom one those are good expectations. The have yeah. I don't to kind of kind of wrap up our rumble stage expectations. What maybe was the biggest shift if any in your pre group stage kind of rankings expectations of these teams Because for me like the big standout shift are maybe don wanna bit down Orangey doesn't really move it all because we do. There's not a lot of data there So so that one's kind of left untouched. I think he s g is a really interesting one because well first of all they talk a lot of shit about cloud nine. So i'm really ready for this rematch. But do you feel that there were any big like massive paradigm shifting moves from a from cage. All things considered hinton even even though there were a lot of these upsets right Even if you say penton mark you're probably not going to move them above any of these other teams that we mentioned you're probably expecting them To be at the bottom of rumble staged. It's great that they got in and that is a you know that's an No over over expectations but I'm pretty sure you're you're a team with the general point of like i think everyone probably does l. p. l. a. c. k. number one number two and at least i had called nine and mad as three four and that really hasn't hasn't changed i would say Psg maybe up for me. Because like while. I didn't think they were week. I was still unsure how how the regional success would translate because it never felt like their challenge. And it's always hard when you're watching You know some of these regions and a team slams. Everyone and it feels like they're not challenged. They're they're not getting like any competition so of course they went right is kind of how it starts to feel and you know you're watching mistakes and you're like well. None of this stuff gets punished like wooden other team. Punish those are the questions that can be difficult to answer. And and from that lens i think. Psg did go up in my mind because they showed that they actually can be quite competitive. I think they were quite competitive In in the second game with mad you know that was a pretty good game. Obviously they started out really bad with that first game and i think that was like hecker game and stuff and it just all bad. They got absolutely blasted by mad. That was the most dominant game of that group But after that. Psg really did start to look quite good. I think that they can be competitive and I i would say that. They should be considered like in the group of of kind of like cloud nine and mad and And then as well of like challenging for one of these potential knockout spots. You know. I wouldn't be shocked if they could steal away one of those spots so you moved up to where i had them so. That's why i didn't have the moving much. I agree with that. I thought that they were. I mean they did get to lion. And i thought we're going to be better but like we're about at the very least. I think they showed that they were able to challenge him in that second game the first game felt really bad. But in italy set mid kinda like it was a weird draft in the meta and after that they kind of moved away from that and they still seem to have a little. Bit more uniqueness like these ear and stuff like that so we'll have to see where where they go against even stronger competition now. But i do like you know we talk about dogs maple. I think hobby has been alright as well playing a little bit more aggressive style. Things like the chase games like over overall. I think they have a number of of pretty good players that can get lease and knock it trounced when they go up against the cons and jeff. Who's and stuff like that. I wanted to focus specifically on Because he was the one with the eyecatching headliner for the interview about any team. But cloud nine gonna be able to move on from the group stage. And i i actually a pre pre that quote Had a decent amount of notes on individual mistakes that he has made so far in the group stage for this team. So coming into it. For me. I was like. Oh wow so. That's he's going to have a lot to hold up to then as we get to the rumble stage and he's going to have to actually put up here because already coming into it. We know looking at at their play in the pcs that oftentimes he is going to be weeks. I did not not a lot of Resources and attention And yet is going to be a lot about the mid jungle especially with subbing out Their bottom line and bringing in dog oh and have a sub eighty carey but I think there were a couple. There were several times where he mismanages a minion. Waves and also does not respect a opponent jungle present so i am super looking forward to to all of those matchups. We are having some more spice added to it. Anytime we get extra added incentive of all about it. I the person i'd say for them. That that scare me. The most is actually kai wing. He had some really suss. Plays that i was just head-scratching especially like the mad lion's games are some of the most important ones like you know you have hobby and maple making a play on of the fight in just for no reason on the owner. He just ease into three paul man that one play. Yeah that was one of the big turning points that game. I was just like what are you doing kai wing. You're willing to to you. He had an ultimate zone the three people from collapsing on his three people and then he actually went into it. I was like he's he's gotta clean up a little bit. Actually since since you start throwing some shade of hobby. Let me and the only thing. I know that that was a really good one. Because that was definitely a team com split and i remember specifically to because you know the camera is up on. Oh my god they just got this pick and they're running through the back lot and they and they get this big win and in the replay. It's like what went down here. Why is leona in there. Even where i think it was like buying them time. You know zoning and you look at the replay and they're like you did not have to go in at all their max range real leona and at that point you're like oh this is the split point where you look back over your shoulder and you're like boys we behind me or are we in this way because i got it right i hit the oh i see i got him going in and there was no look over the shoulder there no nothing in the calms of they're like we're out this way we got the pick you know it's actually killed off i think it was a solo lehner even that they got the humanoid yeah it was it was big thick and then you see on the other half he's like zenith played and you're like oh lines You know get a counter killed there. And then it doesn't reward them with any objective because You know they lose pressure so that was. That was a definitely an individual instance in those two also put a lot emphasis on on communication. That is that has to do with people. Talk that up to team fight awareness. You know a lot of teams you don't want to have to use calms space for stuff like that sometimes And that's you know that's an instance of onstage tunnel vision and not being corrected with yoke a caller whatever in there as well which got to. Well i kinda give opinions already. I think that they're like like there. Carries are very good mechanically. I think maple dog. Oh are really strong. Mechanical players especially like looking some some of the games. They had some issues. As far as far as i mean i think draft was a big issue. I was kind of like had. It makes up in my head where i was thinking heck room game but it was like what mark said it was. That in italy sat game I think that didn't really work. I've watched them. You know in the pc s if felt like sometimes you know. They don't do the due. Diligence on their invades and on some of these plays that they wanna make that they. They may be punished for Like at times there. They're very confidence like moving aggressively almost like some of their opponents were over respecting them. So i think that's something that can catch you when you're playing gets better teams when you're so dominant in your region. It's almost like this. Or of invincibility. You mentioned for someone i feel like. They have that in the pcs where teams don't necessarily challenge them on certain plays which maybe they shouldn't be able to get away with so i think that's something that we may see them struggle with in the next stage. I wanna talk about penton. A bit though Obviously we we've kind like brush over them and touch them a little bit But you know this was like a pretty miraculous result right three-team group aside the fact that you didn't play as well as they did last year. Aside they literally lost their league most most of or at least they're perceived best players. I'll put it that way Got imported over over to the right you know. They're no longer even consider imports. So it's like they. They all joined a lot of teams fudge himself as one of the teams obviously like rome. fbi destiny etc. Like a lot of these guys all left the league. They lost all their sponsors that loss their core teams that are in there and they rebuilt and the fact that there will have a result that they never had yes. There are extra circumstances. Yes there are some things that that you have to take in consideration there. But i thought it was a pretty incredible performance and besides that they were just so fun to watch like from the trash talk the unicorns of loss to the coach with the finger guns and the glasses like every time. He's out there You know they had some swag. They had some style the twitter game on point. You know th they are like mimi ended up. They're having some fun and and they were playing. They're playing with confidence right. And like when you when you see their cameras always look like they were having fun with it. They're laughing even when they're losing. Which i know sometimes people means you don't care about keeping a good attitude right so you can stay a beaten. Say say actually positive about the game. So i enjoyed watching them a lot. I enjoyed seeing the story in the success with a lot of the cool picks coming out with a lot of personality they were shown so i just had actually a blast watching them. You know if you look at that group like originally it was like this group is going to be pretty terrible. Argies is gonna stop anyone who cares you ignore the r. g. games and then you just kind of pretend that it's like a five between you and and it was actually kind of a banger group like i really enjoyed that best of five. I live a lot of fun watching that. So i'm really happy for them. I'm really happy. For a lot of australian friends and casters and people who either still work in the or used to work in opel or or evolving the teams like obviously. There's so many people involved in sports from atlas and rusty in razzies over there frost over there like so many people have actually come through the o. Pl and it's affected a lot of people so it just been cool to see them have that success and kind of like how how fun and how excited the region has been. Yeah the boys couple. A couple of things They they also directly credited the fun and positive atmosphere as giving them the the ability to reset and go into basically the game. Five of their their best defy with unicorns of love and throw down with some of these like the head and everything and their meaning the entire time but they also have a lot of people you know follow pablo at least on twitter because he because the allstars interaction gave him a lot of followers and he has a pretty big voice it so he's very outspoken and he's been talking about the the hate after the very beginning the opening and and some of the losses and misplaced that he had directly getting all of these super negative messages and having to even stop using Or stop looking at replies from people you don't follow and trying to like cut down and pared down on some of the social interactions that type of stuff Especially when you're the sole resented representative of a region you have to have a galvanizing team atmosphere to be able to deal with that stuff a lot of the time and so to the point of like how much fun these guys are having had the good attitudes and they're always there dancing they're joking they're creating mean templates for us onstage bringing up the whiteboard jog this stuff is just is just so so positive just for the entire league for the entire scene for for all of legal legends east sports is you know is a very good look i would say because there there can be a lot of negativity. Sometimes at swamps through these things you know of course also had a crazy happy ending which was changes. Everything you know. They actually did win at emperoro. So now i bet all the people that were originally flaming him like my bad. Sorry about that. I forget about the earlier message. She never doubted you. I forgot what the other thing. I just started so happy recovering. All you're going to talk about the drafts and how much you liked champions in march still coming out and the got tops. All the aid carries mid that they're throwing around the also got the cart. This coming out. Still the 'fiddlesticks their bus. Now tons of cool stuff. That's what you're going to say that you love. You love drafts. Keep an interesting game to game. It was something else know that it was better than that. Blau remember what it was. Play his poise trying to save a lot of the the minor region of you. Sami like the loss. Superfund holy phoenix had a great interview. He was he was an. Og to may world's all the way back two thousand fourteen and there's a lot of really good personalities people dean of course love had some good ones. I think after they lost this ed mid november who the f. does that who picks at blind after never playing jazz does that too well has town copy does not agree with you. I actually agree with you. I think all those even kobe. Hate your guts. I respect you. Mark all the different changes that they've picked. I think were a lot of fun right. Papa was was pretty well. No we talked last week when we were kind of. Dr preview the babu champion ocean. He only replayed a single champion. You know throughout this. He plays two games in italy and then he had kindred more ghana fiddle six bear carcass rumble graves hit all kinds of games. Got those the assassins coming from jazz. We've got the ari prayed played a whole bunch of different stuff. Even bio panther had a pretty good variety of the top lane so it was a lot of fun. And while i won't say like i i would never bet that they're going to get out of the group. What i will say is that they could upset a team and that could decide the group. They're there in one of those situations where we talked about the positive atmosphere. And they're kind of like no fear attitude they are going to come out swinging. I guarantee you they are going to have some wacky picks prepared and try to steal some games from teams right. Try to swing for the fences here and maybe maybe they really surprised me and do more than just take a game. But i mean if you lose to them that could be your you getting eliminated from groups right and that is is really really big Because when we talk about op- psg and mad and cloud nine maybe they're competing for that three or four spot You know maybe there'll there'll be a a shakeup expectations and cloud nine or matt or whoever really performs and they're not the ones you know kind of on the break. But that's the expectation If one of those teams is on the edge of qualifying loses one game to this. That can decide your tournament. Yeah as well Some of the things in the areas that these picks are gonna come from are born of necessity because they were also tweeting about how literally after they won they had no one discrim and they just play solo cue for weeks and weeks and weeks and there are tweeting about meaning on a yo we that is analysis fearless with. What's that down there like. They'll grab stuff from anywhere. Okay i it could come out of come out of a dream. You know the four coming. They're willing to do it. Okay do just crazies. Hell sip which which is a great you know approach to it and sometimes it is born of necessity. Yeah it's shit situation like losing the all. These top players that that got exported not only do they. Can they not feel those players. But you don't get the practice against those players either so you lose practice partners for the team that is going say say oh i can't read that okay ramp. That's just screen. It's not even a script outlined in the outline arguing back in all caps related and then beat his argument in this document anchor questions. I'll take us away your terrible mark all right. This is the first one comes from g. Vinca teeny i believe it was longtime guys qh. Intini here heard from clement. Show had helped of other chinese stop leaners when he rose up even though they would play against him at some point and we also seen chest at at international events players will ask the national rivals to come with them and help in the match analysis. So my question is. Do you think that this would be viable in league and would other players willing to help their opponent or is the coach stuff just enough i mean. Imagine a forty or impact helping at msi. Thank you guys. Love the show and for kobe. I liked this question. But i would like marco. For because part of the beginning of the argument that he and his l. were happening was zale. Wanted mark to wrap us up on the previous spoi- mark speak up. Let's be the final boiler. There said i wrap this up. I think a questions anyways to answer the question. This does happen on and off rain. Overdid it with sealed g in two thousand sixteen. I think because i was one of the immortals ran over and houdini and the loss they make worlds. And i think he he went to help you positional coach for them. It's happened before happens on an off. A lot of pro players even not for international events will work together. I know a lot of jugglers talk together. Just what they think is strong and like things i know. Top winners played a lot of ones. Like when quast. When i worked with quast he and dr sean would won't be one all the time. Different matchups you have different. People weren't warming you up before games in when you're waiting to play you have a couple of hours and like for else yes. It was very frequently. You had a couple of people that you liked playing against and so. I think it's something that if you have the resources for it doesn't hurt. I mean it's probably going to be pretty boring the player who's helping out because you don't really partaken screams because you don't want to disrupt the flow. Generally he'll wanna do too much of it would be like backseat hanging out and giving your opinion when it's when it's called for so i understand why teams don't do a ton especially for some people might be kind of a vacation. You play a lot so overall to bible. It has been done before though. I don't think you'll ever see a thing. We're like a whole team. Blake is flown out as scream partners or something so i. I know that this was definitely done a lot. At the very beginning of league of legends e sports when we were first starting there were all all kinds of times where i would hear inside stories of and it really mattered where the tournament was back when we first started because there was there was a more galvanizing coalition for You know countries and regions wanting their representative to bring home You know the championship so And i don't even know if to this day now. If i should really say like any of the stories so i just won't but Yeah there were. There were a lot more instances of this and then sometimes win teams have other regions would find out like they'd be jealous and or they would even want like. Is that allowed. And this is crazy. Unfair advantage. And all this like you know almost even to the point of Of drama kinds of kind of comes out when entire countries or regions are getting behind their representative and funneling as much help and and stuff as they can into it. It is super super died down. And i haven't heard rumors even close to on the level of things from previous years from the early years recently because of the points that you mentioned like not only now Is there A lot more focused on your own competition or you do teams need to take breaks because the the schedules are insane and so any opening should be used to not burn out on the game and stuff like that but also. I think it's because there are there are so so many more championships now is in history and more regions have Have have already one. So it's not as big of a like. Oh man we gotta get ours now and our needs to get it right now so cool bigger question. A- only thing i'd add is also a lot of the teams have big coaching staff now to write and position coaches and whatnot. So the maybe feel. It's also less needed. That wasn't the past but definitely question. think situationally could be great right. We got some twitter questions here. We're starting off with a hard hitting question from captain flowers. What is your favorite kind of taco. Go ahead because off. I'm just went off mark spot marquis so excited for this one store tacos soft-shell you know you get pineapple in their on throws the mine unions us. Good i i like. There's a lot. The most ordered thing i got was from his place. It'll hold wall place and it's mostly steak tacos. Mistake was really go. Little diced onions and swann. Show and stuff is but softer hard mark. That's the most dividing only answer. Saw no charge. I know that this is going to be a dividing point. And that's why i want to drive it home. You know what. I like. Hard tacos better. Yeah i said it okay. Everyone go to fight me on it. Screw you guys. there is another answer. Hard tacos are lit. Okay i grew up with it. My mom would fry them up specifically home for us. Fresh home fried are crispy tacos their way better. I'll give you two reasons. Why sale still going. No honestly i i really. I really do believe that. I think part of the reason why i also don't believe in evolution you know there's two sides i've backs covy. You're not really seeing art versus. Maybe i do like nachos. Of course you like nachos. Okay now how. How far is the leap from nachos to crispy tacos not that far okay. Especially if you're flying the tortillas yourself I think one of the reasons why so many people hate and will ridicule you and are gonna make fun of me for san crunchy tacos. Is that almost all of the crunchy taco sources. That you get from you know eating out or there are no sources okay. I agree that crunchy tacos from fast food places or honestly Even most of the restaurants that i've ever been out to Are are pretty shit but get like a nice little toast like soft taco. A little bit right and i feel like you get the positives of both sides that way right like when i go and get street tacos which is usually where. I'll get an la because there. There's some bomb ass tacos You know they'll always like sear on the grill and then and then it's like you know has as it's all brown on the side so it's a little bit of crispy and then they put putting all the feelings and stuff and it's still like pliable But it's got that little bit of crisp had mama kobe's tacos show converts you my friend okay on this. I'm the first thomas conscious move the goalposts because like if we're just talking about like frying it up a little bit. I do that too. And i cook my own tacos you know. That's not a hard shell though. That's not hard show. That's right exactly. So that's that's the thing for me is is if when i think harsher i think those they're basically a big chip big chip off pipe chip soft show with with some. You know a little bit fry on is different. I'm down with that for sure. All right well we're aligned kobe's wrong onto the next question here. This one comes from medic. Do you think don. Juan kia are tournament favorites after the group stage. Do you think are disadvantaged by having played a higher tier team in their group initially interesting. Do you think. I think the more interesting part is the is the second part of talking about our energy and is it actually a disadvantage not to have a stage game versus like a strong pool two seed i think so i mean i i would say i would say it's the idea that loss and being challenged can reveal the areas that you need to improve right and yes you can do that in scrimps to. I'm not neither but stage. Games are different than than screams. They're usually a lot less loose. So when you are pushed especially because we essentially have double group stage before round robin donlon right along push and they're like hey we're going to go and we're going to figure out we're going to change up our stuff and we're gonna come back and we're going to be ready to go. If our angie's read was wrong they don't really know. I'm not saying it was but if you kind of miss out on that opportunity a little bit to be like shown some the holes in your game i was gonna say somewhere thing because if you think you're the best then no matter what you just happy to to be. The other. people and having more competition during the siege games isn't going to throw you because what we think. We're better than anyway so i think of course it's a bit of a disadvantage not to have a tougher team in your group. How severe is it. I wouldn't say too much. Because like you said scrimmage and so much more other stuff going on yeah that that's that's the main point because it's really hard to make the argument that not having a good team to play on. Stage is better. That's going to be really hard right. I guess the the thing is the degree to the disadvantage of not having a strong opponent that you play onstage. I'd say the only the only drawback would be that then. You don't get scrimps against that particular team if it really is a super strong team then you lose out on screams but you get the stage gates versus. So that's you know better. So i feel like there's no world where you can make the counterargument so there is the answer is yes that is a disadvantage and you can liken it to like You know super saints The harder you get beat up the stronger you become as long as you. Don't die so you need to get beat up a bit more to get to fully max out next one here. This comes from Koran secure. I'm not sure brown that right. Who's your turn it. Mvp thus far. Or what's your all star team. Perform this in each position. If you guys wanna hit the all-star question. I think that's pretty cool if you have some answers aren g with canyon and you're not gonna swap out cry. The hell mark. I think shoemakers had some suss place about parts book parks. Yeah humanoid yeah what about l. Your you wrote denmark. I would maybe put kaiser about volkan listened. People challenge them. Uk stage play on the nicknaming. He's their back with one. Okay so honestly though. Because let's i think person per team boom. Okay means for sure that are g representative okay canyons for sure the dom on representative yup. I'm aligned lou. Midlands you up. Perks are humanoid irks. I'm going perks. Because i'm going Top okay okay. These are eighty jerry got. Yeah that that's a pretty good team. Y'all well done all right. That's answer brings we'd go guys. Here's here's here's another hard hitting question. We got a couple of them here today. This one's from abu says the swaggie. Est hinton net gee-gee member this one for me. I'm sorry you're probably fisher for for yourself there. It's got to be the coach. I mean like is it even close the coach out there with the finger guns with the shades. He's got the cool fit. He's looking good and you know every time they go to the coach cab like all right not so much on the finger gun trade. Maybe i thought it was hilarious. Maybe not swaggie to be fair but it was bombed. He's got my vote. My vote mark. I would say bio panthers another one who gives them a run for his money out of game okay but swaggie can also be in game. Oh sorry pablo no way come sets sit ups true. Oh the senator tower shooting you. That's what i thought you were going go with it. I forgot i forgot about it. But you're right. Blind said is also pretty. Swag practice blinds. Ed in your elimination game to win and then me. I'm a big fan of b. M. and taken tower shots while doing sit ups and the tower sites are actually not doing damage. See some good stuff. Banger tournament episodes. That'll wrap it up for us for now. Thank you on the for making this episode possible. Remember you can check us out on spotify apple podcasts. Anchor died for the voice questions. Send us those. Their sub to the youtube channel. It is youtube dot com slash elsie. Yes and we also appreciate the apple. Podcasts reviews those help us out. If they're funny might get on the show pretty cool you can also continue to send us the questions on twitter hashtag of the rumble. Sage begins this friday with. Don i are angie at six. Am pacific time. That's going to be insane. That'll start the day and the finish it off. It's just as good mad. Lions versus cloud nine absolute banger n. a. e. you. We'll be back next wednesday to break down all the action cloud and i guess out that.

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League Rundown - Episode 350: 3 Point 5 Fudging Fiddy

League Rundown: A league of Legends Esports Podcast

1:01:39 hr | 6 months ago

League Rundown - Episode 350: 3 Point 5 Fudging Fiddy

"This episode of the lcs rundown is brought to you by maxine. Zen checkup marks in zan dot com slash t force using the code trinity force for twenty. Percents off your order. Premium high-quality inexpensive boxers. They're made from bamboo to help. Wick away the sweat which leaves you feeling fresh. Compared the other brands none of them will keep you as comfy as moxie and zen off jimi shots next single win the game by biking biking biking pick messiah. Thank you hello and welcome to episode three hundred and fifty of the league rundown slash lockdown spring split twenty twenty one playoffs brought to you by the trinity force network. This episode is lovingly. Entitled and a bit of a throwback three point five fudge fifty because we have hit our incredible landmark of three hundred fifty episodes and for anyone who remembers h two k. Rich baby who were pulling away way back. I'm your host sean duffy. I'm joined today by the three amigos who have been with us the longest. We've got odin about a howdy. We've gotten what's up. We've got jacks chris. Tv slash. Jackson won there it is. Let's jump into the news. We've got an interesting episode because we only had this past weekend and we have l. e. c. coming up and lcs plan action so really excited about. That could be a lot of fun as we dive a little deeper here something. We're not going to dive too. Deep into though ceo drama. What you mall may have been falling since about january. When i believe the civil suit was brought forward by a former employee of riot towards ceo. Niccolo lauren he was accused of sexual harassment along with some other things. Right ghost crawler. Who has jumped over to basically creating and producing and designing the new memo. That will be coming out from right in the next twenty years. He did post a couple of public court documents that were pursuing to that particular case on the side of the defense. Which is the ceo. Currently of riot. I would encourage everyone who hasn't and who wants to be more informed about what's going on there to read them. I think it casts everything in a very different light from what was originally cast in other than that. I don't think it's really important for us to weigh in on it. And i don't want to do so anyway. So we're gonna leave it just at that and instead were to jump on over to the eastern side of league of legends. We're gonna talk. Lp update baby royal. Never give up still in. I at twelve and two. If you have not watched the l. p. yet you need to make it a priority to watch a royal. Never give up series. They are fantastic. I'm so looking forward to the playoffs here for the believer in their final week of regular season. I'm really excited to see which team actually comes out on top because in second place. It's a tie. Between edward gaming and team world elite at eleven and three one game behind world never give up and looking fantastic in their own fashion. Although i don't think as dominant as our g has jd gaming at eleven four and fourth-place rare adam and top e sports tied for fifth fund plus phoenix staying in the playoff positioning ten and five and seventh and soothing. Your world's finalists at eight and six. I believe the playoffs for spring. Splitter still eight teams for the l. p. l. so that really rounds it out invictus gaming. I believe needs a win for the game. That happens this week. Which i think is tomorrow or even tonight so it will already have happened by the time you listen to this. If they win they do secure playoff seeding so might be the top ten. I am too lazy to look further l. Ck update lads don juan gaming. Still leading the pack. Fifteen two gingy wave back there. Three games behind at twelve and five hundred dropping to t one honourable east sports eleven five and third-place fourth-place roaring back up the standings. And what did they have to do to make this change start faker and suddenly one starts winning. They're ten and seven d x seven in fifth place and in sixth place. Red force at six and ten. That's it l. c. k. l. p. o. Are both rapidly heading towards the end of their actual seasons in fact let me double check right now on live. March twenty eighth is the last date. So this is the final week of elsie. K action l. p. l. action will end on also march twenty eighth. But this this is really it. This is all we get for the regular season. And then we're going to jump into playoffs. Which is really nice because as we do the finals for the western league's l. e. c. And we're going to be getting just kind of a touch a taste a preview of the mid tier teams in these eastern regions before the final start and we can just watch. Those very excited could be superfund. I'm really hopeful that we're going to get an absolute banger of a series once we get to the msi between all these different teams. 'cause there's some there's some tough-looking teams don gaming versus orange. A best of that. I'm so looking forward to all right roster changes as we're heading into playoffs. You very rarely see anything here. However has strauss has officially parted ways with nuke duck that is it felix apparently is there mid lehner for the remainder of the year. Unless something crazy happens. I have to say. He's absolutely earned it. We also don't know nuke duck was benched for performance. Reasons seemed to be something else when it originally occurred. All of the team is now maybe unexpectedly performed so much better. And i don't know if there was a personal reason for him to just completely partways or if they decided he's just not coming back he might as well move on. Do wanna point out. Please please if you are a north american team. Don't don't do it. Don sky yeah just knew if you're listening to us go become a positional coach for some team like you're not top tier anymore and i don't want you taking up a spot on the academy or regional rosters. That can be taken by up and coming talent. Go coach someone and help them be those up and coming talents. Unless you're gonna get a hell of a lot better fingers crossed her. It's been the year the duck for awhile and it's come up just straight quercus in other news community discord. Ian talk to us. All what's going on. It is awesome over there. We got every game. We got watch parties going on basically all the time now. l. e. c. Is happening this weekend. Some there's going to be lots of stuff for that. I'm sure jackson's probably going to be in there. I actually can't this weekend. Because i've been loving the watch parties with the community unlucky but yet it's a ton of fun it's awesome. We have a massive community pickles in the sleeper app for the playoff bracket. It's super cool. I i think it's too late to get involved in the sleeper stuff but there are only lcs. I think yeah you should join the community discord and hang out with all of us. Watch the games together. It's a lot of fun. It's yeah and everyone is super nice absolutely and we. We're doing all sorts of things. A bunch of cuny members of put together more awards. They did their own community member awards for mvp and first team and second team all the things that you expect from right Which we actually have only seen. I forgot announced this earlier. We did see. The i team pick which actually coincided exactly with our own community member picks for the i team which i thought was really funny but not necessarily unexpected. First team official. Lcs all-pro was al farhi blubber blubber. When you read it just doesn't quite read. The same blabber perks and core so three cloudy members are yet three members. Two team liquid members blogger. Sounds like media's zach one tricks murph account. I like it someone right to him. Make that happen from there. It gets really. I think interesting for the official counts. I actually really like our community counts. Because dr doc makes his way into the second team for all pro. Fbi gets his fucking do and at least makes it to the second team. And i don't think he even gets picked for the official one which is an absolute travesty. And more importantly neo gets into our third team which i was absolutely well deserved. We get really weird from their rookie. The split i did. They announce the rookie of the split for the officials. I have to find. It will be announced on sewers. It say what the hell reveal the honda. Most valuable players revealed april ninth. We won't see that till the finals coach. The split will probably happen. It's gonna happen this weekend. Which honestly coaching session with. One hundred percent. Go to the dig team specifically j. I m y harrison jimmy harrison. You know real our community. One had twenty five ballots that people put in in our community nineteen winston jimmy harrison. A man you're listening. If you're listening and i know you know who we are because you liked my tweet about you earlier we love you. Come on the show. Come chat with us. Talk to us about how you refused to take up. A hashtag gamer name in order to coach the team. That's all we really wanna know. I think that'd be really well. Deserved fingers crossed. It happens are mvp went to blabber. I believe which is not unexpected at all. And it's who i personally had. we had. Revenge is rookie of the split. I don't really know who's gonna get rookie of the split. I'm kind of clueless about who else might be palo fox which is my own vote. But it's kind of an interesting interesting season in the for this split because the others who could potentially count don't technically count like solely. Go fake god and neo who you would think of as new players. But they've actually played more than half a split already in professional play so they're no longer eligible even though for the most part they were just subs. So that's it for what's occurring over there. Come join us. We have all sorts of fun surveys. Fun things you can come be a part of come weigh in on and then argue with us amicably about the results of. It's a big fun times to join us this weekend if you can all right. that's it. We covered news covered ourselves. And now it's time to cover the most beautiful region. On god's green earth the region that has spawned countless meta's and even more meta jokes. We're gonna talk. Lcs action from this past weekend baby. We had two series that seemed like they would be potentially good in that one of them looked close in the other one was going to be a stop and the kind of got that sort of we're gonna start with the first game that occurred on saturday. It's team versus. Tsm this is a classic match up to the money teams in the nfl. A history going head to head and both of these rosters i believe are actually the most expensive rosters right now. Team liquid verse. Tsm we all picked him. Liquid windass this and we were vindicated. Pretty heavily in a three to one victory by liquid themselves however it was not clean game. One was literally tsm's blues and then they did. They did exactly lose it. I thought everyone. Tm brilliant for like the first twenty five minutes of the game. They're playing really well. They were resilient if they lost like kill in the beginning of a trade they came back and got to kills for it really like interesting play. They killed off fiery like it was nothing just to start out the entire match. That was the first blood of the entire game the entire series and then bearing. Tsn through so hard at this barren like you can see if you look up the match history. The gold graph. They had a six thousand gold lead within four minutes. It was back to neutral. So basically the baron fight plus everything that team liquid did with the baron. Buff completely erased the entire boldly so for this game one. I think this is something. That i'm probably gonna end up repeating through like all the games the series J- step the fuck up this series in every single game on He had multiple this game. That were like team fight. Changing specifically there was like a three man or four man one down at drake that basically wiped the cuts because that was jensen positioning the ball perfectly and just leaving there and then timing has old when they forgot it was there so this game as well as basically every other game. This series was just a masterclass from johnson I'm this it's jinsun playoff buff. This guy's just build different for the playoffs man. You spend so much time. I think as a team preparing especially now for our furry because it's such a different matchup before when you had impact in the top lane. Yeah you had to worry about him. But it was more like Contain him like maybe leave them on an island. Like it'll be okay. You'll try to deal with them later. You can't do that without far. And so i'm really heavily focused him and honestly did a pretty decent job for two three games for a while and then he broke containment multi-threat team the s. And exactly and this showed jensen can do when he's not the one just supporting the monsters around him. i do want hossa point out this dammit control donna. What is it with tristan age. For both of these two carries my god lost and tactical could not stop looking at the w key and just thinking baby in la. So i'm really glad they only played on a two out to the four games because it was painful. For both of them i feel like they. They both only had two deaths. But i feel like they died seven times just by like there where they were in the like. They had to use so much to get out of every fucking fight because they put themselves as such terrible positions. Somehow we had wild turtle on both teams. This series food damage doesn't mean you have to hit them with it Burst but her sustained damage especially late game is so strong that like i don't understand why they're doing it. Also i just go ahead oh So for game. Twos specifically. I wanted to bring up. How well team liquid played the early game in this game. They basically got need an speaker To a point where they just could not play the game And it looks like who was just tilted off the face of the planet Pretty much from this moment. Onward in the series it was really bad Since tornado going nine eleven the series In a lot of it was off of some crazy toppling shenanigans. Early game and jensen also again. I have to mention had the best. ra game. i've seen from anyone all season out of like any major region. This like he. Hard carried this team on ari. I wanted to call that out specifically because sawn complained about how quote unquote us chad. Honestly more than anything. It's that dumb ass item. I just stupid champ. Dumb champ can do but it works well for jensen because he doesn't typically play like he plays her like control mate. So you're not expecting this big burst out of it and it's not really what he goes for. He goes for using every skill got in his arsenal just to land the charm and then a latte allows everything else to follow up on it so the damage isn't really coming from him. Ninety percent of the time. It's just that he's creating the opportunity for everyone else. Which is i mean obviously seemed like a really good to play it. And maybe that's the way it's supposed to be played and whites failed otherwise got just fuck it. Hey this is stupid champion. Wanted to make fun of you because shit on tsn so brutal and even though he just went off like i think almost overshadows that poe was excellent. I thought rebel series like he's zero in two fifteen minutes into that particular game on lucien because he has no option like he's not even putting himself in a tough spot he just gets so gang banged then so brutalized. There's nothing else he can do. And his top side of the map is a dead way rambles down so much gold. Oh yeah who needs on his signature rumble. Pick and getting his ass shoved in like oof. It was really bad. Yeah and then game. Three even in game three the one game. That team liquid didn't win. Johnson still looked awesome on the silence. Pick it was like they. They waited all the way until the very end of draft to give jensen the counter pick and they got him silas and he he tried his heart as drag this team kicking and screaming over the finish line for clean three. Oh but unfortunately it wasn't meant to be for this one. And i kind of what sean was saying of power of evil and jensen both playing extremely well. Power evil zero zero and fifteen on the serafin into a playing. Well jensen silas. I thought it was really interesting. That they got the win with the serafin. Because i was looking at this series zero two. And i'm thinking this is the first thought that came to my mind. Which is there was a period of time a substantial period of time probably up until he retired that the argument could be made about. Who is the better midlander bergson. And there were definite links of time where poe honestly looked like. He was better gelling better. He was playing with the team better. He was getting more done solo etc. But i was watching the game. Like i can't pull it off on the seraphine. That's essentially zillion the same version of a supporting kind of mid lehner where they're not the carry right and the other team. The team mates have to carry around him. And if this team can't pull that off you know how's that different. From what bergson. And had to do what he to do or succeeded in doing and the fact that they pulled it off in that game was like. Oh this is kind of nice. Like there's a good argument here for him. Just being that perfect buric replacement and then he goes on lucian and fails to games in a row. Unfortunately i just thought it was a really interesting way that he was able to empower his teammates with it in the same way. That bjork's in would have done on this zillion speaking of the stupid seraphine pick this pick is just disgustingly good at stalling out games. It's like a game four was it should have ended so much sooner but surfing literally. Just doesn't the game to end in it's awful So broken Yeah this champion is disgusting needs to be nursed immediately but yeah johnson again five. Oh and thirteen twisted fading game like yeah. This guy. has jensen had an immaculate series. This game vs this Yeah and immaculate series every game looked excellent versus arguably one of the best mid leaders in the league power vehicle how did power viva also had a good series and johnson just had a way better one So yeah this guy was absolutely the name of the Like the headline name. Mvp one hundred percent this series Absolutely yeah i i know sean mentioned it earlier but my god if there's one thing to take away from this stop jumping in on tristan of please every adc. Does it like everyone. Why yup it's i don't get it. They're looking for the reset and like half the time they jump. It's like one hundred and fifty two hundred health off. It's not even shuna gun that shoots from really far away also under doing it into three people. They can fee also. There is one thing one other thing in game three. I think they corrected themselves in game four. But it's it's kim tech pietra not purifier. It's kim tech future fired and they got it wrong all game and it tilted me honestly terrible and we should write a strongly worded letter to riot that they don't know the name of their own stupid items. How long ago. Captain flowers isn't paid to know the name of items. He's played paid to shout and be excited. So coby come on. Coby is captain. Fires just jinx. This is a topic for another time. We'll get there jinx. But i think wow first of all yes. This entire series can basically be summed up in the top rettig comment on the on. The reddit thread that just says unfortunately for tm l. far woke up this morning. I would like to throw in there as well Unfortunately you know. Basically all of team liquids top jungle in mid woke up and then tactical and core jj or more or less just along for the ride Yeah i would be very very scared if i were seen nine right now. Yeah we're going to jump over that series in a second. I do want to because it's just a series. We're not talking about every single game. I want to point out. How top heavy entire thing was. It felt so often like the bottom line was just inconsequential victory. They weren't though. The tristan is were super important. In each of the fights fights were won or lost by whether or not lost or tactical were popped early for the most part and i think it But it culminated in game. Four where they put lost or tactical on fucking civil. Abc's like the team fight adc. You can get right Had her do the traditional creek carry building not the new dark harvest. Medimmune builds that has been tearing up solo q. Yeah it was an interesting. Just set of picks at the israel for team liquid in their loss was a really interesting pick and didn't really work at all like he wasn't actually able to escape any the pressure that was thrown his way and just kind of fell apart. I didn't really get it. I know that the pro bill now is like supposed to unleash insane. Amounts of damage especially mid game But it just didn't feel like it. Did shit i this game too. Yeah basically anything affiliates too much. Yeah it just feels weird like i think. They're still both teams. Felt like they were still drafting in a meta. That didn't quite exist anymore. We're players felt comfortable picking this pick into that pick. Even though in the context of the current meta just don't work anymore. i fell into. That team isn't half bad at all. But a philias. Just period is stinky. Unless you head so yeah. It's a really fun series. Honestly and tsn fans their stuff to be proud of especially that game one but the one thing that really we liked that we saw from tsn for awhile was their mental and speak a mental boomed after the ending of game. One real hard. They came back and game three and they did take that one and pull away and win rather convincingly outside of jensen pulling some wacky ass plays out of his ass to save the day after the time but other than that they were actually just winning that game outright but team liquid the opposite on the two other games and just crushed in every single position slowly just dragged the game out and one really really solid play from team liquid beating. tsm's awesome. Because i think they lost the head to head zero tubers. Tsm's that right. I think that was correct because they got the third seat so yeah really really cool really well done from team liquid to turn into the playoffs beast we expect. Tsm's there's positives there but definitely a lot to clean up. However ian what happened in the series between c. nine and one hundred thieves. I can tell you what happened. Closer murder win mental boom harder than anyone ever seen in my life. Maybe it's because he doesn't have a midlander anymore. Yeah dude i. I can't feel good about this as a c nine fan like game one was an absolute mim fest and then game two and three literally just felt like one hundred leaves head tilt it off the face of the earth in it was. Oh so bad. Realme is not good in enclosure. Just could not play the game for the life of him. One of the worst game. Three series didn't really do much with the lead but closer had one of the worst invade attempts. I've ever seen literally giving over perks. I blood and double buffs at level three or something. And oh god it was. It was like dude. You can't play like this you can't solo invade in an f. Four people collapsed on you. What are you doing it was. It was so embarrassing from Closers perspective and then on Something that i really wanna touch on for the series is We saw it way back in lock in tournament fudge versus someday. We saw someday hard gap fledge in the top lane in this series. We saw fudge hard gap someday. It was a complete reversal from the beginning of the The beginning of the split and it makes me so happy. It's like this is like fudge got so many games in him at the beginning of the series and he has gotten so much in him Like he's constantly improving this entire split in. It's it's so nice to see new talent. Just doing very well right. Absolutely like at one point fudge on cihan beats the shit out of somedays. Eight trucks to our. Hr has to retreat and run away. How does that even happen. After getting can't right like they did. You hit a point on ceylon. Where unless like the is for some reason building armor pen. You just use this win by default but it was before. That moment usually happens. The crazy part. It's just a really like be offsetting. All of that should be a slap fight. I also was the point. That i think sean had mentioned it before it was like. When was the last time on nine that you saw like a really standout series or look really good. I think that this was a very good series from perks. Probably the best. We've seen all split from him so far He looks yeah he he looked genuinely on point this series he was landing oriana Lots of great shockwaves. Just playing very very well. He had a very good yona game and then his tryst ana was okay but again you know suffering from a little bit of interest on going in and subsequently just insta dying but yeah. This perks is looking the best we've seen him so All split fudges looking the best. We've seen him. All split blabber an absolute monster right now And then and vulcan are both looking pretty stable so this. I'm really excited to see this team. Go up for team liquid and a five game series. This is what i've been looking forward to. Basically all split dude perks made yona especially just look fucking broken at one point in a team fight. I pointed out to my wife. I'm like okay watch perks. He's down his bottom left corner the fucking screen and then he gets over and kills a dude in the top right in like two seconds and then snaps right back to the bottom. Left like a zoomed out team fight cam. He covered the entire screen. Murdered a dude and escaped in like two seconds. Only do the one where he just caught. Fbi amidst a group of three other champions by diving from like the mid lane like the middle of lane almost right outside the that middling turner turret dove to the second turret killed snapped back completely in blabber. Did the same thing on olaf in the next game. I can't i hate that real move. Play this entire scene. Yes because he didn't fucking do anything they gave him. Complete draft priority with last. Pick every fucking time and he did absolutely nothing every game. Other than give perks the free fucking mid lane. he has ever played. it was it just. It was like playing a game with a hole in the middle. Like what the fuck was supposed to do here. I this this. I'm i'm with you completely and it's part of the reason why it's hard for me to put a lot of blame on anyone else. Aside from closer is because perks was able to absolutely dominate this game and it was fantastic to watch but what he did more so than just like clapping and midland which he didn't do to be fair like he was not solo killing reopen constantly. He was not even getting a major. Cs lead on rio. Maria was doing all that stuff fine. The problem was riano reema would like go into the lane. Farm rendered like that was it. Perks would clear out that blaine. Because he was completely unimpeded then he would go run into the hundred thieves jungle and go do whatever the fuck you wanted and did that. Constantly up war give vision take camps and then you know blabber is like hey i know exactly where. The enemy juggler the entire game in. He he just does blabber things he kills you like because he's blabber rate it just created such a massive team which is i think closer somewhat to blame because he allowed the situation to get out of hand and then tilt him in which i think is apparent when he goes for that desperation grump kill and then gets killed by four people collapsing on him because his entire topside had been gone blabber taken everything from him because of how poorly he had played the top lane to to with someday and how little pressure is being exerted by roma so he was fucked and he was trying to find some way to stay in the game and rather than doing what is the correct move in that case in a professional setting which is saying. Okay this sucks. What can i do with my time to help my teammates and get them ahead. He decided if i can't get ahead. This team's gonna loose. So i gotta be like overly aggressive and tried dumb shit and hope i get away with it and see nine absolutely destroyed them every single time. So that's the only reason. I think like ir should not necessarily be aimed at the all the members of one hundred thieves. I don't even want to necessarily blame just roma i think he was stuck in a really shitty situation. It's a no win place to be to go up against the guy who is the reigning now. First place i team. Lcs mid lehner to be a player like romo with the backstory has where he wasn't good enough already before i just don't think he's ever going to be. Lcs ready and if na mid lehner's improved to this degree n being the people actually playing here in rather than the native talent shoot. Dude he screwed. He's just not good enough. He's like golden. Glue them to really succeed to a degree. I just don't think he's actually capable of and i feel so bad for demonte all this. I would've loved for him to at least get a shot at a game here and see if that would hope but i know they're not going to start him. This weekend i think they. They need to stick to their guns. Like as an organization they made the decision to end up lower bracket partially because they decided real moves. Gonna be there starter and if they decide at this point you know. That didn't quite work out. Then they have one week of real practice with their actual mid lehner and that's probably worse to be honest especially against who they up against a start. It's g the dough they get dig. Yeah honestly you could probably put in real for this game. I mean i really liked the way he goes played. but he's not exactly a lane kingdom monster. yeah anyway. I just want to point this out like this team is still struggling to figure shit out and closer like fudged really did well against someday right like absolutely. The growth is massive. But what do you do as a top lehner. when you're jungle is playing so erratically and doing the dumbest shit possible. That weird stutter. Step that occurred in the top lane. Withn italy worked very clearly someday said hey i want backout as the teepee was coming in and closers like no no. No we got this. That was that took. Like three seconds to be communicated so instead it was almost a double kill just giving up for free. Closer donated his buffs over instead just for free. Yeah it was who've this team needs like four or five team building exercises every day. Know they need to be like tied together for a full twenty four hours have to learn about each other. They need to go play laser tag together. Maybe a nice little beach retreat. Like damn. There's a lot going on here. It sucks 'cause teams looks dope dude. There's so many good players here and see nine. Put all of them dumpster. The only i do want to point out who he. I thought who he played really really well. He just had nothing to work. With and fact. I thought he invoked in played very like close. That was probably the best match up one hundred thieves truth. All right positives though. Massive positives for one hundred thieves. Excuse me for nine. We've already talked fucking so strong This next match. Which will it's just jump right into the guys where to jump into next week. The preview of next week we've got eeg versus tsn and dig. One hundred. Thieves is gonna have to wet our appetite before he died into the winner's bracket the following week. So we get some some some games for sure. These will be games of league of legends. That are occurring on our screens in front of us. We started off with evil geniuses versus. Tsm we have csm across the board Lads how does evil genius win this one. Don't that's a harsh spotlight. Do they have an advantage in any role may be top and jungle. Maybe top top top right with through impact. I feel like the only somehow impact tested dumpster many but maybe who is tilts off the face of the planet for some reason and the impacts gaps him every game. I don't know. I mean he could play lucien top for some fucking reason us. You also maybe Maybe sorta just has like really bad games. We've seen him look terrible champs. I don't like they give for naked impact and then like. I don't think any of this is going to happen. Who need looks like good. Enough sorta looks good enough. Power of evil looks amazing speakers. Like pretty good right. I don't think the yeah. I just don't think that. Eg has what it takes to win this especially you know what if what of zouk aliens lynn's tales right like it's just over right and and this is kind of a bummer. For ag is if they drawn hundred thieves. This is a way more interesting discussion because gap either hundred mid leaner really hard edges. Uk is the strongpoint for way. More fun to watch. This is a bad match up. Evil genius is their best that they could put forward against. A team of equal. Strength is that they can split. Push really well. They're actually very very good at it to create the kind of pressure that they need to either achieve split push goals or force different objectives for them. But you i don't think that's possible for tsm. They're actually very good mid gay macro team And evil geniuses does not have what it takes to even be in a position to split push effectively. I think against this guy. These guys anyone have anything different than three. Oh i can. You can always see like yeah. There's a possibility they take one but at three zero three one. I don't think it can go to could go to five years. But i don't think it will i am i don't think it will. I think it's a three ot. Tsm however i will put it out there week. Six last week of regular season eeg did beat tsn. Pretty soundly playing through impacts specifically. Yeah i think that's kind of what we were talking about like. Say three to play through all say three one one game whom he has like an off game in impact. Good excuse me. Impact has really well. Yes you're looking for one fucking go for it. Yeah i think that's it though you throw your eggs and the impact basket and it works. That's your saving grace you. Everyone gets one all right well. That's it for easy for tm where we got. What i think is actually a really fun matchup whether or not it's gonna be great league legends. That's a little up in the air. But it's going to be a blast to watch we get dignatories versus one hundred thieves. We have a split cast here. I actually still have one hundred thieves. Everyone else has stigmatize. I think this is going to be a close series. I like the way they match up. I think the biggest weakness of one hundred thieves is also not a strength of dignatories. Which is that mid lane. And i'm expecting them to bounce back from what was just a clear series of full goddamn sent tilt against cni Ian how did stigmatize win this. Or why do they win this. I think the I think it's gonna be through africa. Africa's playmaking i think the Like mid late game playmaking from africa is super super good. He's been showing up really really well. All split He's looked like africa's back baby. This guy this guy has been looking on point. You love to see it right. and then i'd super excited to see doc. Continue playing you. Know whatever basically whatever he wants Yeah i think dachshund looking looking also pretty good also neo. We were just talking about new bottling. Osgood i'm super excited for full series of who he versus afro. Yes that's the matchup. I'm super excited for. Yeah i think this going to be. So i think they match up really well you can kind of almost feel the afro mu like Not the teachings of the right word but like the the style plays of rubbed off on who he in terms of what he prioritizes how we plays them well and then he put his own spin on the mall. Say a man. it's so easy. Support is so easy. And you've got to really exciting young bottling talents on both teams. I'm really stoked to see the baht lanes goto v. two. I think more than anything else. I don't care about any other part of the map. To be honest. I think these all have potential to be very explosive. That's you're just hyped. About afro verse. Who he because they were on sale g together when actually good yes. I'm excited to see them. Like both succeed ish on these other team both look good right. They both a great. They both like the focal points of their teams to like exceed and do well and both been exceeding expectations placed upon them for like a year. Now i don't i mean one of the reasons we're putting hundred. Three's ooh that top side of the map is ugly for toss. The bought side matches up pretty well and so long. Closer isn't deciding to do his best wigley impression like there's shit that can go down topside. That does not work out well to be to closer. Control the fuck out of someday. Like i think one hundred could win this. I mean if closer doesn't tilt his own teammate. Why i have dig a three to. I think this game this series goes to five game. I think these teams are girls. Let's say i think five game series three two. I'm going to toss because. I don't have faith in closer to not. I don't have faith in his consistency right now. One hundred shaky. They look really shaky hundred hundred if play. I'm never going to vote for them to win the series. Yeah it's literally that i'd be saying three two hundred if they were starting to monte and also dig has a much better match up into tsm. And i'd like to see some fall out of this. You know what that is a more than valid reason. Yeah understandable have a nice day. It doesn't really matter because tm's going to get knocked out by whichever of cloud nine or team liquid loses to the other one anyway. It's very probable is going to be good looking one last thing that i wanted to mention before we jump on over to the e you predictions because i forgot that we weren't gonna talk about t over soc- nine This week i wanted to mention the series versus one hundred that nine head. It was not all sunshine and rainbows for c nine. There were many points were c-9 looked just like someone Perks be it Why am i blanking. On our eighty blabber yes. Thank you Perkins vin specifically just getting caught randomly. And i think the team liquid is a team that will punish the ever loving. Fuck out of that and that is like. Cnn's big weakness randomly sending someone getting caught out. And it's like. Oh oh no. We lost all pressure on the map. We lost all control of baron. All control of drake and then at all. That's nine specialties. During massive gold leaves randomly right so Yeah so it was not all sunshine and rainbows especially in game one for c nine. So yeah. I just wanted to make sure that i said that because we we gave them a lot of love but i gotta keep him in check so for listeners. Who are confused. Why we're not seeing team liquid cloud nine this weekend. They will be playing on. Sunday april fourth. They get a week off because they won the first round. Congratulations enjoy your time off. Everyone dignity. I think also is now running into hundred thieves. That did notice mistakes. I made now. They weren't able to actually win the game off the but did capitalize. And so i i mean i still think. Hundred thieves is the right. Call the one. Last thing i want to say. We could have a shirt discussion on it before we move on. If we want to hundred thieves also has a lot of playoff experience. A lot up against a team that has virtually none like the only player really on this team that has planned experiences. Afro like substantial amount. Starbuck had some mostly failures asked. I believe played in a playoff series. But i think did they win him. I don't remember exactly. It's been a while so when he was previously named asda. There's a lot there and dig to toss head coach as much as we love jimmy harrison to death like he has never been placed in a best of situation where he's really had to make like this the right sorts of drafting kabuli calls for. I believe in our boy. We believe in some good jimmy harrison need to. It's like the twitch chat memes like chalier energy little little like give emoji. We need to leave from the rundown podcast to jimmy harrison. I'm calling on all of our community members to figure out what emoji we used either ryan with harrison or jimmy. Those are the things we need the dig. Natasa one's easy. But gimme gimme jimmy. I don't know what that would be. Don't spoil it now. Don't do anything weird or do weird. I don't care. I'm not your mom. My brain just goes to double dragon and double dragon three when they called me and jimmy for some fucking reason. Wow that's obscure. I don't know if we're going to go with that but i like we were minds at. Do you know where mind mind is right now. Jack's you predictions. It's hop over the pawn baby. We're over here in berlin. We're gonna talk l. e. c. upcoming action playoffs startling. They start hot leads. They start hot. Because we've got one of the classic matchups of all time kicking off the llc playoffs fanatic versus s. k. For those of you have been around for a while. This was the premier matchup for awhile is the original classic. Oh and then s k went boom extremely large boom and then they came back and they were stinky but now they probably have the rookie of the year on. This team potentially intriguing. Although i don't know if he still qualifies for rookie of the year. I wasn't sure about that. The rules are weird. We had a whole argument trying to figure that. Out on the subway or on the dischord server. And i don't remember what our conclusion was but as as a team that's playing significantly better than any of us expected them to this. Split and fanatic is shaky as all hell. That's why all have exactly gonna make owed an answer that yeah absolutely correct. Yes we do. Yeah even with that. The experience fanatic brings to a playoff situation where pro self-made hill sang upset. Niesky com on single one of these veteran players and turn on. Oh yeah exactly. This is an organization that has shown shakiness in a regular season. And then turn around and easily come in second place in playoffs like they do this for fun now. I don't think it's for fun split. But this is a team of vets to go back to the point about data thieves. I made this is a team. That knows what they're doing when it comes to a best of an s k. This is mostly brand new to them right. Who's on s k. That is really actually sat through a best of before we've gotten from genesis lost. Yeah treats as it. He then lost and got benched. Degenerates make the playoffs last split. I think he made it and didn't do anything. Like the yeah. He was in summer. Playoffs went zero. Three two shelter okay. He's the only one with playoff experience. Yeah so there's a lot that they're gonna have to learn extremely quickly against or that has nothing left to learn except maybe about each other. Because what's going to beat fanatic harder than s k can. It's fanatic themselves. This is their series to lose. And it's going to be lost because they're not on the same page and hilla saying isn't a place he should not be and self-made isn't a place he shouldn't be. And whipple is down zero five. Zero skinny is definitely going to split. Push at least one of these games for no apparent reason why he does. And that's why i'm giving it three one fanatic. Not three ot frankly that's fair. I would agree with the three one. Odin rio three easy clap okay. A three one three one baby. I'm kind of excited for this. Because this is going to prove a fanatic playoff buff israel or if s case the real deal and climbing up with a bunch of no names rookies and in these guys are in the lower bracket it is elimination. If they lose they don't get a second chance. go bigger. go home berlin or go home either. Go home go. Wide or ghost felt gee two versus shoka. Oh four is our next match-up. I am so excited for this partially because i just liked the match up. I think it has fun. Storyline partially because just going to absolutely clap. Shoka in a way that cannot defend. Because he's not on the cast. Tonight we in fact even. Don't worry steve. We filled in shock. Oh four four you talk to yourself. you're right. I totally forgot. We've got g to across the board. It's playoffs it's the g. Two has not lost in this scenario. For what two and a half years quite a while. Yep i don't know if they remember how to lose in this situation too because they lost. I don't think it was in the finals. League knocked out early by someone else. I think you're right and i. It was like two and a half years to do is. Let's see twenty twenty one. It was probably two thousand eighteen twenty two. And that's what. I'm looking at right now. She's no king forever. So i might as well be shelved the they are up against the big shell a train. This is the team. This is the dream. Can they put something together. Light is if anyone can do it right. It's not going to be rogue. It probably won't be mad. Yeah s is not happening is if anyone's got a chance this might be. This might be the david running into goliath here. We've done it before they have they've won. They've beachie to. I'm trying to think of a good argument for how they do it consistently in a series of g to just decides that a little too hard. Gt means little too close to the sun and they get three owed by show. I don't see a world where that happens. I see a g too close to the sun and still then maybe loses one game if they lose one game. I expect the very next game. They just come out. Try hard absolutely destroyed. Just like a twenty two minute game. Yeah probably yeah i. Just don't there's not going down the roster like broken blade debt is not a good match up and in fact you ban trucks and broken blades essentially useless. Ninety percent of the time Jungle gillies one of those coin flip players of all time. This could work like if he goes god mode and can actually get specifically alba ahead in the mid lane. They've got a shot but it has to go up against caps. Probably the best western midler ever. Who's looking really fucking good for the most part and then you've got neon and limit and limit has stepped up massively this year like he j- way way better than we expected. You're against mickie now. Good luck would you do. He's at every point. Yeah god i think like a barring a covert outbreak. This shall not like this might be the best bet but good news for shock. Oh what happens if they lose here. Jack's they get to go to the lower bracket and play. I think the winner of fanatic s k. I think you're right. Because i believe would then go into the next match after that whoever whoever loses their. So that's positive you can take that with you to the bank to the lower bracket. Unfortunately we've got three zero or three one across the board here for g two one last series to finish off this next playoff run. We've got a match up. I think is excited should be. We've got to be mad. Lines absolutely mad. Lines versus rogue jacks. What do you think of this series. I think this is going to be a good series. I think these teams match up. Well we have probably the best juggler in the league right now and inspired against a rookie juggler. Who's got something to prove and has been looking amazing. Like that should hype. I'm genuinely excited to see that. Matchup and all of the lanes like mad it. I think matt is definitely not favored in this match. Rogue is the favorite but matt is not far behind in any of the individual matchups. I'd agree the brogue styles used to get these small leads right and then use their macro play to keep growing and growing growing very like korean light like so many western teams of performed with success on however this is a team. That's a lot harder to do that. Against which is why madd lines is in third right why they are actually matching up here. This is exciting. I'm super stoked for this. I think there's very clear pass for success. Right inspired has been really really important for rogue. If ilya can get in front of him you know can rogue even get ahead enough to start strangling at a game the top lane. There's some really interesting matchups. They are because you've got oto. Who's maybe the unsung hero of e you finally got his paws dogs. This split player of the games from and earned them deservedly. Right up against who's had some really good pop off games and then other games where he's just invisible and the bought lane kaiser kind of rules. This team where kaiser goes. This team can succeed and cars. These had weakness as a mad player like not been great which might be. that's where rogosta to they. Go bottling go to top. You really want to arson ahead. Because he's been so so important so strong but that's a tough match-up in a humanoid and a two with humanoid larson inspired is like the two strongest players from each team like hell. Yeah it's fucking go for it. I hope that's what they both go for. Let's get a bunch of random to in the mid lane. Oh yeah please. Dear lord Prays aright anything else before we decide what we think. The results will be here. No seeing none. I've got mad. Lions winning three to. I think it's going to be a five game series. I think they're volatility is gonna come out in favor of them and i'm super excited for it. I think they're coaching staffs great ian. What you got baby girl. I have rogue three to a odin have rogue three. Oh oh baby. Oh i love it. Jack's going rogue three one. I think mad takes a game. But i think rogue is on average better blood and i'm gonna make you explain a little bit. Why does not want wanna single game. I think rogue is really trying to step up to be a contender for the title and they need to really push in like digging deep here and put a strong performance up against mad to make anyone think they're going to be able to be g. Do okay fair. Enough looking ahead. To kind of solidify. Why something why. The results should be as you think they are. I appreciate that. I like it. that's it. That's all we've got kind of a quick episode. It's weird. Should we just add like thirty minutes or and bullshit. What do you think. I can just take all of our bullshit from the beginning of the show that i like always added out and then put it at the end and then yeah that'd be fun all the things that are probably wildly inappropriate. That i can't put in the podcast. None of it's that interesting. I think the most people. It's just really stupid jokes so yeah definitely throw them in. Let's do it. That's going to do it for us though. Thank you guys for joining us. We've got a really fun weekend especially over here. In the that's coming up the end don't forget the l. p. and l. c. k. Is this week. If you've got a chance catch those. Last of regular season split games are angie and don gaming and both regions are the top dogs and deservedly so take a look at how they are playing out. Because don't forget that it's best to threes actually to see a little mini series going on c. Get a couple of games out of that over here. It's exciting and even closer to home. Come join our community discord a good good time. We're gonna have a lot of fun to your home. Yeah you can join together with a whole team together. You'll have how many people on your team. Jack's five yes and all of you together can be a shooting odin star. Yes you could be five stars clashing together or playing valor in together or joining together and legends of ruined tara to put together some fun decks and practice them against each other. You could also be giving your favorite league of legends based independent podcast. Five stars or big old thumbs up on. Whatever you're using to listen to our podcast from we would love it. We would appreciate it by the way. We have like two hundred fifty people almost in the discord server which is a little over ten percent of our listeners. Every week which is just beyond wild the fact that even ten percent of the people who listen to us bullshit every week would care enough to come and join a community and come on with us is insane are of valor and clan. Essentially we've got like ten to eleven people who are all willing to play Different nights of the week so we all jump in. We've gotten so many five man's together out of we haven't done as much league but loved valor in daycare role in the disagrees. The name that yeah come on in when you get to name your or give yourself a little tag for what region of league you like to watch you could also now tag yourself a little gun and get the valor daycare tag. And so when we wanna play we just tag you and say anyone invalid decor want to jump on in. If we have enough interest in other games we could potentially do that as well but complied with us coming out with us. We're here all the time. It's a fun community fund server and we'd love to see their thank you guys for listening to us windows without you. We love you and we'll see you next week. Bye bye bye i.

jensen lehner serafin yona Niccolo lauren Red force Don sky al farhi dr doc harrison jimmy harrison winston jimmy harrison palo fox bergson sean johnson sean duffy jensen silas poe buric shuna
The Dive | 2020 Worlds: TSM's Bjergsen Retires, Semifinals Reactions, & Finals Preview

The Dive

1:27:23 hr | 11 months ago

The Dive | 2020 Worlds: TSM's Bjergsen Retires, Semifinals Reactions, & Finals Preview

"Hello and welcome to the dive bar. Honda i am confused at choir this time because travis is sleeping specifically ashforth wake up. This is season four episode. Forty the finals episode. Yeah is it's funny. I do a show at travis. And he's like. I halfway down kobe sleeping at like nine o'clock at night and now it's like seven thirty in the morning show to be quiet. What's it come on. Get on the same page guys. I wanted to yell and have fun schedules. Will you can yell travis here you gals much see what travis plays on speaker so i'm gonna travel. I can't yeah. I guess it's gonna go. Yeah perfect well. I mean honestly if trump so except kobe but he's speakers and he's the blame not us. Yeah that's true now wrong. They blame for most. Things aren't good rule of thumb. We start the show with some pertinent news. Because we're still during world you know we're all excited. Finals is coming up and yet north. America waits for no one. Okay we got. The drama started already. We'll roster moves are coming out. All kinds of rumors flying around. Buicks retired and moving into into being coached This is this is hi. i'm already super excited for the off season and we're not finished with world's at the center retirement was was interesting. 'cause like so i. I had heard a rumor couple of days before that. He was probably going to be retiring. But i hadn't heard the coaching part. So i was like less shocked than some other people. But i was. I was kind of happy that it meant. He was still sitting in the seat right. You know that he was actually still going to be involved that he's still had to the competitive drive and everything. I think that is really cool. Still like seeing that kinda hit me harder than than i thought was going to just in realizing like. Oh my god. There's so many. Lcs memories that barracks is a part of and has been for so many years like he is so just tied to this league in the history of this league when you think back to so many your favorite moments in favorite finals like he's in the mall winning or losing you know he's always there. My favorite finals was the very first finals of the only ones he started. Two thousand thirteen. That's crazy yeah. It was not i. I definitely wasn't on the hype train. You know cope like this is crazy. And i'm like yes crazy. I'm sad i was. I was bummed. Seem like you're saying if all these great memories. And i think that i was missing. Him is going to be one thing but also like looking forward. It's also feel sad to me because you know this was our arguments. I think the best midland in the last split regardless of what happened at worlds and whatnot. And you know. I do think it's still closed between him and jensen peo- some of these other midlanders in the league. It's not like he's so far above them like he was showed up. But he's still really really good. Mrs just blow to the league In terms of engagement. I think any lines disagrees with that. I'm not saying it's it's crazy. It's crazy in the way that kind of like we're referring to your accent has almost always almost always been a part of the us. Yes and all the almost always. Yeah exactly ben the center of tsm. They changed their name so they don't like it when people call them team solomid anymore because they rebranded. But that's what it started out as and there's only been two solo mids team. Solomid it was reggie was bucs in and brixton is what everybody associated with this team because only old fogies like us even remember red and has been the mid layer allowing the regius not as much longer. Yeah and of bigger importance. To so yeah. I think that's why everybody's reaction. I is this kind of what because he's still performing with perform. Well it's not like oh he dropped off and anyone you hit those highs again exactly you you think about retirement anything guard at their wash. They can't get a job anymore. Now they're going to go into retirement outdoor picked him up right or or. Maybe it's like they're going only get a really bad or something but yeah you know. He's easing beacon Everyone's roasting dsm. Because they did poorly at worlds. And i think that's sad You know to have as the final note for bjork's in But i do think that you know one of the things that i was really thinking about like after my initial wave of like. Oh that sucks like he you know. He's he's one of those guys. I associate so heavily with all all of these great. Lcs memories One of the things. I was going out about was damn. We never got to see him on another team. And and maybe that sounds like cold to to sam or like shot. I don't mean it as that. It's more through through the point of view of i have been of the opinion over a number of years internationally. That exam was like as good or better than a of midland who are doing better than him at events right and it's lake. I always kind wanted to see like what he succeed on a different team in a different environment with different pieces around him Because we knew that he could play like it's at such a high level but like other players from a had more success than him when it came to the international stage so that was one of those things that i was always like. I thought before being retired he was like gonna join c. Nine or he was going to go back to europe or he was gonna. Do you know there was going to be some other part to it. Not just the entire tenure on tsm and there is like a beauty to that. But i just of feel a bit sad that he never really got that international success like you can point to the tournament but it's just not the same in in the league world Shoot you know about my. Wc on the wall behind you just out of frame liberal world champion. He gave me the approval. So yeah i have. No no power was i. Was i alone with thinking that you guys. Maybe it was just because when you started out your thing of the main things i was thinking of and i was i. I'm not i didn't want to disagree with the point. I don't disagree with it but it's not something that really crossed my mind. I realize i was like you know i. I never had a desire to see him. Know on a on a different team and i started thinking. Okay so they have changed players pieces around him but it has always been you know. Tsm and has always been the same owners And only speculation goes into coaching staff. And all that type of stuff. So i guess you could say like you know a real deep rooted change to see you know what what other factors you could control Might be interesting. But i i gotta be honest like what. I my first thing i was thinking of. I was thinking replacements on my who the hell is is signing up is the you know the shine. The goat is your coach. He's gonna be better than us sitting down behind you unless there's like unless it's like caps or or like or like one of a handful of people there's going to be better than hughes people are immediately when we're talking about this news and everyone's talking about it and people are like oh who you think. He's going to replace him well. I say i'm not super excited. Unless it's actually caps a rookie or or something like that. You know unless it was they would have to be. It would have to be almost a story of of some diamond in the rough you know. Oh my god somehow. Nobody knew that this player was the same player that owns like three accounts on these different servers in top ten of challenger of all these different things that it was like this story is it. Yeah it's just like fairytale story of like some unknown rookie. I was like okay. Know that would get me excited if tsm tried to do the same strategy that they did when they found brixton. I really think that that is just so hard to repeat. Nowadays when every single team is getting blasted for not finding rookies. Everybody's like is peeled right now and to be fair burks pentacle in europe before it came over. You know like he wasn't exactly he was a rising star already for a lot of people still though like remember at that time like he's still on not even an llc teamer at that time a whatever whatever we used to call it l. c. Yes you see us too. I'm just joking by the way. No offense It was. I still remember it being such a big thing because we are having a similar conversation to like we're having now are like team solomid it's supposed to solo mid and reggie's been the only did i mean i was gonna say i i would love if there's some training store where buric since just whipping kid into shape and one b once all year round and just beaten and into four graphic with these kind of forest where you that that was. The other thing for me is that. I i felt like it almost had to be someone. Who's at the absolute peak already or someone who's brand new and really young and and burkes is going to mold them into the perfect midlander right like i can get behind either. Those stories secret child a four year old. Something like are talking about sword right. I admittedly don't know a tremendous amount about sword. But you know like he isn't he's eighteen. He is now eligible for for elsie ass. Right you know he's been on the dsm academy someone like that coming up. Like i could get behind that. I do think that if you get someone who's more like. Ooh this is like a middle of the pack guy and he's pretty known and and he's a replacement for dsm no one's gonna feel excited about it Because you're has such an incredible story like needs to be someone that's already on his level or above or someone that's brand new and has potential and i feel like there's almost no between you can't you can't pick up like belter or golden glue or or someone like that and be like yours. Are newman leonard grass. Yeah i think we're all on the same page about that. It's just crazy to go into this new era and there's less certainty because when reggie retired they're happier and that was. That was a one to here. We go this is. The passing of the torch was obvious it was announced. I think during world as well. Then if i remember correctly and they had a video out in it was all this stuff and you know they had. This highlight montage here he was. You know copenhagen wolves. We think he's going to be insane. Everyone kind of had already identified him as the next in line behind the alex each's in the expected and the frog and that were still dominating europe. This was the young blood that we were able to get singer claws into. And there's not that same story here which is why it is is a weird or transition on top of all the factors covered so losing being hasn't midlander universal agreed. That's hard mess. Bergson i am. I am actually really excited for coach. Eriksson because paying attention to the offseason. Yes there's been all these roster rumors and a lot of them are team would related. The other big thing that is happening is like the great purge of coaches. I have seen more coaches tweeting out. You know tweets and favorites still allowed to talk to other like just across the board lit on fire here and big name one suit repaired kane think us all ton ton and ton of people and i do have a lot of confidence in bergson from just all different sources you know when you have player testimonials that have played with and against him talking about his character talking about how much they love playing with him in game out of game in reviews Ethic all of these things. It's like there is not a demerit on on your resume. I'm trying to dig up. Something i thought of one thing. But it's like you know it's drama related And we're not. We're not getting into that game related. I can think of. Is you know having to players who disagreed on how they should be playing right and like frustrations about that but then on the other side of burks won't have the same issue with them right. So there's there's always gonna be somebody of heads when you disagree about how to play the game but to me these seven years and the biggest thing to me is work. That's why i am a big believer that he will succeed because to me. I i really think that most things in life just come down to. How hard are you gonna work out. Because it is a skill to be learned like anything else. He obviously has the game knowledge. douglas talking about how bergson has always reading all these leadership books in coaching books. And all this stuff like that. He's already interested in it just from the players side so this is obviously something that you know. East is interested in a passion for and i think it would be really cool to see him retire highs as a coach than he did as a player like. I don't know how you would feel about that. But i think it would be cool to see like you know bjork's in the coach getting out a world's groups like that still still story. Be funny to watch. Watch the hater. Straying rationalized barracks and was the problem. But he's still the coach. Well maybe maybe he could be a better coach player right and that's saying a lot but who knows there's no reason to say that he can't yeah. I mean it is true to as well that like to curb some hype around the just. Because you're a great players. You're always going to be a great coach. There's there's plenty of examples that traditional sports. i will say in in league. It does seem a little bit better. I think the transition a coach is a little bit easier. It seems. I think a lot of these guys. Imperious in particular has already done enough for. Tsm that it's borderline coaching already. It sounds like About trying to get people on the same page and all this stuff and like you know players have have a lot of power and it does feel like they do a fair amount of coaching already. So i don't think it's as as big of a league. It's that's an interesting crossover. Because i've seen some people bring that up as one of the negatives of like okay. We've been criticizing. You know some things about gsm in various stages of the history of the organization and coaching is something that comes a time and then they're like okay. Well if you're also attributing some of it which is all pure speculation you know every everybody in almost all of these Coaching evaluations is doing. Most of it are speculation. And just hear it. It's like so Those are always hard to put together. But i i am definitely more confident in him. Being announced as a coach than i can actually see myself being for For almost announcement right you know player or any on honestly figure and When north america release yeah. It's it's pretty exciting to follow. I think one thing that he may have as a challenge. Especially depending on what the roster says like is a role from peer to authority figure right. And i and i know that sometimes that can be difficult and i've had talks of blair's even about how that can be difficult even just like becoming the shock collar and at the end of the day. It's like you are the voice of authority and it has to be a bit of a different dynamic right You know some of the coaches. I've talked to that. I think are really really good. Coaches have talked about how. You can't necessarily be friends as much as you like. There has to be more line right. You can always be like your best bud because at the end of the day when you say jump they say ceo high right and i think that that can be something that can be difficult especially if if you continue playing with someone who is a player that's like on your level and as one of the things and more appear than than someone that you would just be like dictating to. Yeah i think that's. That's a huge concern. I mean the one lucky thing is you could say like. Hey he's been a part owner for a little while now so you probably already had a bit of a screwed up power dynamic and so i mean that's that's mostly because i agree it's interesting to point a particular probably being the one person the lcs currently who has the resume that can go toe to toe with beer. And if you're just gonna like you know pull out the receipts. Who should we listen to. But i think it sounds like based off how about some of his clips and stuff. I think he really respects really likes him and so i don't. I don't think it would be an issue but so to be speaking of double lift you know. He also mentioned that he was considering retiring alongside him and then we also have a bunch of other rumors coming at the same time. i click on a touch on a team liquid ones as well because We are this is also the final episode and so we're gonna have to eventually start talking about currently legends now jensen with the reported four point two million dollars cash in over three years. Congratulations friend if that is true Al far being speculated all this rumor still as as the fill in for team liquid top. does seem pretty hype And then i think the most muddy of the rumors is the san torn one for jungle for them. But it's it's crazy. How all of these rumors are surrounding team liquid. And coming into this year. I had already heard a lot of Is maybe four months ago or something. I had heard rumors of all the a org. We're like oh my god payrolls getting out of control. We're gonna tone it down a little bit and then you hear these headlines. It is like steve is not down. Well jacking it up senile on the other hand though like we talked about this before but they're they're losing rick licorice getting right. That's that's tone down probably valerie. So maybe some By do think that team liquid is like the most far away from like any talent and raise up the young ones and there. They are the like by of when they're big guarantee. Success jackson is a north Resident now my friends. So that is the highest paid go onto the north american. Technically that has been the strategy for a long time. Right is is salary You know by the stars and big with with your wallet. Exactly the go go with the safe play right. You know if they are making money doing that at their organization business being settled doing that. Then i think that's great But you know it is crazy to think all right you know. Some of these rosser rumors are true and room salaries al. Faris was to be over million year. I've heard rumors that in will be up and around a million year jensen will be one point. Four million a year Tactical you know he would be on the low end you know but still probably a couple hundred thousand and i've heard cordage as up around a million a year. So you're you're looking at at a team that is like closing in on like a five million dollar salary for one year for for your starting roster right and maybe it's below that like it's four and a half or whatever but i mean holy crap right and that's not even getting into your coaching staff and your support staff and they have the biggest one facility cost and everything and i'm like oh my god that that is like you're getting close to like the the low end salary caps in traditional sports. I assume they're going to hire a bunch of new people but when not talking about the lighting on fire of coaching staff. A lot of the people catching fire from team liquid. By the way. I mean jesse jackson there because he just got your back. Maybe he's the one doing the lighting today. When i got here on the water. He's not going to be associated to kick in another rumor. There's the dig sneaky rumour as well Which i know is a contentious one on the topic of any talent because presumably. Johnston is getting moved then So that's the big one. I think i've heard that is picking up some interest for people about one. I'm super happy. In general sneaky back in the league because with barracks and gone double lift. You know is so like oh i was even considering retiring bucs was you know like i definitely want some of the old guard. Starpower big names in history in the league something to comfort you something familiar. Afro sneaky is about land sounds fund. Does it's not gonna be the same if sneaky team and it's not like a top team second field the same. I don't think right if if they finish like seventh-place or place or something like that you know that's not going to be the triumphant return. And i think he's a really big competitor. I had i had heard in the past some of the reasons that he wasn't coming back. Was you know wasn't getting offers from top teams. And wasn't you know exactly what he wanted with like he wanted to compete kind of thing. So it'll be interesting to see. If that happens. I will say lasting on ontario for me at least is that like this. This can come off as like negative on. Like oh my god they're overpaying so much but that's not really how i mean it you know. I i do think that if that roster comes to be rumored rosser with al faris intolerant and everything like that is incredibly exciting right I think that is a team. That has an insane amount of talent. I think a lot of people especially don't really know el-farra because he was on origin was simply seem right in in in summer. And i saw a lot of comments on who the hell's al-farsi like why are we paying that much for this guy. Never heard of him but you know he he was first all pro right he was he was slamming on on a bad deep and And i think people would be really excited to watch him when when he comes here so it would be cool to see see if It happen and if that big spending can bring the international success the jason. Yeah i think they seem like they have won the offseason so far. If all these rumors come true and outside denied it doesn't. I don't know who could contest them. I mean we'll see what happens with the dick situation. We'll see what happens with csm and stuff but just based off early named named valley it feels like tail the big winners and maybe the favorites. Nobody should be able to contest them because they clearly are already previously showed like they are willing to spend the top dollar to be the top team so if a team does win the offseason over them. That is an upset on par with you know some of the you know the other big upset about it has to come from actual better scouting and better management and one of the areas to do that. Now is obviously with the the news trying to delve into that treasure chest of of of talent and trying to kind of hone in and train up and see what kind of configurations you can make. And we're just remember though that it's not as though they're upgrading over over total subs and people's opinion on brooks at has lowered a lot but at the start of last year people were looking at the box signing this big hype signing t. l. And pretty excited. I think the community was pretty excited. I think munity was more excited than that's fair. I mean i think santona is definitely better and way higher stock right now but impact is also someone who has been very good for a long time. al farhi. I think people like on paper are expecting. Okay if he was like the best or or a second bass arguable. Whatever with wonder that he would be performing better and being more flexible play style. Wise and dash should be an advantage detail but impact has been really good and on team liquid and on sundays other teams. He has really been really good at you know when they were doing international. Play right like when we think about the final round and everything so it's not as though they are just eliminating some bottom tier players and upgrading them. So i mean. I would say on paper. They were supposed to be the best team by far this year. Too and the got ninth and then third will say to when when people you know are looking over at at os challenges that because that's new. Don't forget the speeches that we've been giving all year long on hon. Building up north american talent And finding new north american rookies. Like i think the hundred thieves project of the hundred these next Tsn cloud nine. I think Them sort of along with team liquid as well have been doing a lot already in that area And i know that a lot of teams are more focused in that area I would also say just on that little last last tiny thing on all these roster moves and newtown every building everything like that in the in the one about digitize with bringing sneaky and in moving johnson. i don't think You know the like na talent discussion Comes into that. Because sneaky is is the definition of north american talent and i i think that discussion should should not be like expiration dates of players. I think it should be you know drive and skullcap and these types of things From player so we get older. Players can be really really successful as long as they're as long as they are actually driven. I mean look at look at double lift. I think reckless is a good example example. There's a lot of examples. But yeah i'm down to move on into semi semifinals. And we're obviously going to have a lot more off-season talk wants some of the ross's get more solidified. There's some big rumors who want it. That's on world semifinal. Reactions top is out. That was the big surprise for me them. Losing tuning You know looking back at it now. Seeing how how it shook out. Were you guys surprise. Do you think you kind of make sense here. Given how the teams are performing already in the tournament i am. I am still surprised because the things that i thought what that we're going to be true. Were still true to some degree for for top and I mean yeah they did pick the orn which is like you know. There's so much less flexible. And he hasn't played thirty eight games. Well the game was there one loss and he didn't look that great. He wasn't terrible on it. I i was like you know. That's i find with picking on there but I just thought suiting The way the way that team fight and and slowing down. Some of these team fights their targets election The coordination between their carries when they are going to kill an enemy carry is so good. That you know you you can't you can't really dispute in those moments And that's where a lot of the big moments for them came from because in a lot of the games It was clutch team. Fights and clutch might steals from s. o. Fm you know these games. I felt like almost every game. We're getting all point and keep getting denied soft points by either good setups or or or just you know this might go going the right way there and i just think i'm still surprised. I am so amped for soothing I we'll get into it later. I definitely think they are still underdogs but for underdogs to come up on top multiple times in a row has has gotta get you on their side. you know. yeah. I think to go answer. Zales quest for me i like. It was in retrospect a little bit in line with how the term had been going. You know. I think it's hard to shake the domination of top you sports domestically from your mind in some of these things. But i mean. I've been doing super well. Torment like said knocking off. Jag you could tell. All their players had leveled up significantly since the playoffs. That had happened domestically like they were playing. Better at world Everyone look there wasn't like a single weak link you could identify. They're really solid team with some pretty unique strengths Like bin s m and stuff like warm along like they are a really really good team. Missile thing is surprising that you know now that you've seen this run of getting person group with which has some pretty good teams and then beating j g like it's actually not that crazy. They could take down top. Who i think you could also didn't have you know by paying semifinalists in a huge accomplishment. It wasn't quite the level. We were all expecting out of this team. You know like night was hyped as the best player in world's best mid lehner and he was really good no shade but he didn't dominate angel in any any real game of. Maybe the echo game where maybe popoff game and still lost that one you know so like. I think. It's a little in line with how things were trending in the tournament tuning. We're shining up. They were doing well. They're playing all these things off. Top was good but not quite the level. We expect coming into the tournament and upset happens. I always say the one thing. That really was a big surprise to me. I watched a lot a lot of top throughout the l. p. l. so like that stuff is still very in my mind right and been you know. You're saying yeah. There was no like weak weak spot but being trashed by zoom in the quarterfinals. I feel like that got largely overlooked because because they won the games but been was up like forty at twelve minutes in versus gp which a lot of people consider a winning matchup for gp right zoom was consistently trashing. Been the only game that was doing well in lane. Because i went back and i actually watched all these lands cussing sarah considering doing for linking them The only lane that been was really. Well i can remember was the one where she one ever gave his clapped so when i saw that and pair that with how top played against the consuming in the playoffs where they focus top they played around counter picks they camp for three six nine and they and they crushed been right. That was the strategy. I was expecting an on. I'm coming into this thing. All right three six nine zoom are considered the top two In the league zoom trash last game top is is a team that is able to play through toppling. Play cow books play areas. They already did against the team. They swept them doing it. That's what i was expecting. And the biggest prize of he was. They didn't even try. They were playing around toppling at all. I was actually so disappointed. That wouldn't see it whatsoever and you know there. There's a lot of criticisms or knitting criticisms but like the mentioning of been doesn't play tanks because he hadn't really played oriented. All three six nine is is one in six on ornell year. Click worst by far. He doesn't really play. Takes either. Except i guess i on. But he's playing a little bit of that. I mean that's where i was going to go. Because you're saying like we. If you look at quarterfinals been was trashed by zoom. Was getting a lot of strong strong. Picks like rejecting and stuff. But if he's supposed to be respected in isolation usually yeah but at least not be down. Forty s no but rejecting can with john coronation stuff when when lane but but look at look at tops quarterfinals. If you wanna play that game they did nothing top. They just like they ended up taking on and stuff because they couldn't play well. Bottling was getting and guess what. Jackie love had another pretty poor performance relative to his own high-standard again. And so like. I actually think what happened with. Top in quarters happened again here. For the most part they walking had the blueprint. I would say you know to your point. Just just do the same thing though. They were adjustments. Made on the side of suiting from from the from the same. I'm not saying they did the exact same thing. I'm just saying that like struggles that top had still existed in semi's and then after the one jas game they just abandoned kerry top for for top. I really wanted to talk about it from suiting. Side and the adjustments that specifically fm made because a lot of a lot of them when they trashed him in semi l. p. l. was it was the counter pick plus it was carson up there each time getting the first blood for them an s. o. Fm getting farm leagues. And i think that they really learn their lesson from that one in multiple of those games. sim had forty s leads over carson and yet top and bottom were smashing so hard You know bottom by themselves. And then carapace on on topside let it didn't end up mattering even when sm could go up and and get a solo. Kill on three six nine. So that's that's what. I thought you know a good. A good adjustment was made from this team And how i feel like. Fm is been so flexible when we're all just talking about kindred and graves and italy and stuff. He's still in some of these games like the ones where they have double carey solely lehner's he plays the jarve in And he always has his tendency where we are talking about his his tank builds even on likely sin and stuff and then and then putting that together with the team fights that they constructed and and how he's using using this to be You know the focal point for setting up those carries. I just thought man i would. I was really enamored with the improvements that they made Yes i i was also disappointed in top them and jackie loving you on that to me is actually like how they did in in the regular season ending playoffs them when they put them in the regular season they three owed them playoffs. Like topped slammed the this year in p. l. right and in a large reason was jackie. Love new andrzej. Just were winning every lane. And long i think has as really leveled up and not all. It wasn't just about the lane. 'cause i do think the jackie has some good games had some good lanes but even when he was playing from an advantage he failed issued team bites right like to me game one was so where they had. You know so much emphasis on gain this wrong ahead and esa famous manning all the time up there and we'll kong's a little bit. Hadn't it's like great got kong ed. But mid mid is losing hard to rookie and bought is losing art due to jackie. Jackie love right. Or excuse me. I said rookie tonight. yeah so it was like mid about of interest as top. And i'm like all right. All you have to do is just not into the team and the game is yours and then both dragon fight so only critical fights of the entire happen. They have full vision of the wu kong and they just like run into him and die. The second was actually so horrible. The second one three six nine is literally fighting. We'll call the wall and been used his first charge of all and then jackie la flashes in range of the wu to try to kill a support and like all right. You just flashed a second chargers lukoil and kills him and it was like things like that. Were so disappointing to watch this to me was such a good to funding team and they just seem to completely lose lose sight of their wing conditions and how to team fight around this week long. It's like side even though he got some teepee flank. He was standing there. Your jason mark and both times and then you walked into died and we lose the game. You could definitely tell. And jackie hide this tendency. Come out you know at different times as well. Those mistakes from him And and the frustrations. I did feel and especially when we listen. Afterwards where he's telling yang jiao to devour night in the middle of a team fight and stuff and you have that kind of micromanagement come out. And and he knows and a lot of these games that Neil he's the weakest link jaw There's i just feel so bad for him. You know 'cause when everyone's looking at you and you you know you're messing up to it's like it's like when you're getting blamed and you can't say anything back because it's true like man. I felt so bad for him. Afterwards you could see like he is. He's really holding back a lot of the most a lot of rumors that he's getting replaced and things like that so it's probably knows that's exactly the thing that he knows and it's not one of those things where you're like. No you're wrong book. You like right all right you gotta go the silicon mindset where you start playing team like. You didn't give me any help this team. You should have been battling for this wing. Carson was consoling him. I always like. Oh my god. I feel i really emotional attitude. So positive spending the sending side i was gonna say the flash wolf storyline. I mean just one of the two Being able to pop off you know sort aren't making a finals was cool to get that now. He's got extra quest to curse positive. Tears now are like that was just such a cool story line. Where he he's like. Well i'm going gonna lose like you better win now sort art you know i thought oh. That was really cool. And it's it's adding a weird retrospectively adding even more history onto that flash wolves lineup and you know like look at how insanely good. These five players were from this region. That didn't have a ton of talent behind them. And how insanely good they were able to be to kinda carry the lms for a couple of years especially carson and sorta come over to them too. Yeah i was gonna say even so maple right now and people like we don't talk him but During the flash floods era we focus on maple so much and he truly was performing during during that era as well and i liked the code. The coaches are getting mentioned. A loss to the multiple coaches from flash wolves that have that have found success fluid when still hanging in here as well and so. I think it's just a really cool story. That extra layer of of the like these flash will players. Still still popping off in shaping the history of world's did Did you see sorts interview after where he was talking about. Your accent Barracks retiring and and i thought that was actually really interesting Because it was like. I i hear bjork's in because he says like speak a language that he says dame it's very i was like what what is. What is he for him after he just one seven finals and and it was really interesting. It was like through through the lens of like you know here's another player was been around forever and and his career is ending and i've been around forever to and like i need to make the most because like essentially like you don't know when it's going to end you don't know when your last shot is and like to me like that that like really resonated that was really cool and just the idea of some lives advice failure. These are these guys who have been around forever. And who played alongside each other. And who have you know a fight against each other at events over over like an entire tech practically right and this is the best shot that sort has ever gotten to really reach those. Those true high is reach. That international glory knows he had never met before now. He's in the finals right. And i and. I think it's hard not to root for them especially alongside hongkong if the is having watched the hong kong Story you should. But i mean the things that this guy went through you know getting abandoned by his parents you know essentially like having to come up by himself and even the struggles in in like the israelis the pro scene And some of the things he dealt with their you know a qualifying to the lv al with team and then having the owner after all these trials and tribulations that sell their spot without even consulting them and then so he's not in afterthought he finally got in like it's it's it's just a crazy story and it really does make you cheer for them and i think that suining As as much as i was disappointed with top. I'm so pleased with soon because they have developed and become a much more complete team You know in the l. p. l. If you watch them was really just. Sos famine ben. And where are they going to be able to carry the game and if yes you one if no you loss right and that's like how it felt for the most part angel and were more like these these journeyman these players who who would be good and team fights with the game was about them because svm was either spending all time farming or spending all this time helping been for the most part. And so i do think it's really cool to see see evolution of the team and see that the ballet and it's actually really improving in stepping up and becoming the focal point in some of these games and in some of these series and though angel i still don't think is the focal point. You know angel is is getting some respect to because i mean you even look at that that game four against hop where he was just slamming on the akali right and a lot of people had had really kind of looked at him as like. Oh he's control major guy but really he can play assassins any spends assignment his insult. You playing assassin. So it's like he's more dynamic than than the credit is given to him. And i think it's really cool to see the total And it does really make me want to cheer for them. You know going into the final because again they feel like the underdogs in. You're like ooh could they really make it happen. But you know coming into worlds. You wouldn't have thought they'd be would've thought they'd be top. You know the jury was out on if they should be favored detour. Not but like they're run has been incredible. Free pointed out that they would have basically the most impressive run worlds if they win really like that point. Because people's kind of power ranking loosely. Was the top three was jd. Top and donlon. They already beat. Jd top in fives and then the number four that a lot of people had or number three arguing in arguably Was g two and they beat them in groups right. It's like two over g two. They won best. If i were taught at one of our. Jj if they win over dom on you beat the four best teams three of them in best of five to become the world champion. That is arguable. that is like there's no bracket luck. There's no nothing that is the best run that has ever happened. I think worlds. Yeah just quickly also On the angel point. I want to interject some status. Because he is he is doing so much work with so little he has He got the eleventh most which is not very much. Cs between fifteen and thirty which is often how how you measure exactly or not yet. It's it's really says a lot. How he continually is kind of this workhorse and you see him. Picking oh for the team Picking peaking whatever midlander fits this composition and then for him to pop off in the cali game. That's why i was just getting so excited for him because he finally got to be. You know one of the you know the stars of this team and in that scenario even though it does come up pretty rare for this team. He he really shined plus he got to do it on his signature picasso which they always you know always. Zoe is always mentioned as one of the main ones and super feared. But that's what made me happy for him. But i also all at margot i wanted to tack onto and you're talking so much about Soon ensuing stories. I think don. Juan is Has really good story as well with their meteoric rise in competitive league of legends and does need to be represented more. Because everybody's just it feels like it's just that now as cooler are just so good we gotta get on there. So i think they do at least need representation and i wanted to. We'll talk about them and their go ahead. Mark i don't even remember angels good They'll need them in. I don juan. He can't be this control age mid lehner sitting there while the rest of the team carries. I don't think you can. You can do that and hope to win. And the fact that you can pick as opportunities You know one game four arises and it's time for the akali and you see i mean to be honest. I'm not sure why he thought this was the best to call anytime. Tk and an oriole on the other side makes it sound like it could be a little difficult team fights. He pulled it off. So i mean i think the fact that he can went given the carry tools actually carry is going to be huge them if they're going to actually upset and i assume we call it an upset Don yeah i mean that that actual team competition and that is one of the ones i I'm doing like an extra segment on because it is so cool. How the utilize you know double split pursers of jackson. Cali to then have leona jargon bring a team fight together and actually how difficult is because you can't fry front to back as you mentioned when you have to malay carries and so they they have these creative ways with sm And sort are getting these engages and the two soldiers getting on the priority targets is Th that gave me so much confidence but To speak on on on for a little bit people still need to people still need to remember And jumaane who is a great segue because last year Was was where most people kind of You know became affiliated with with don juan and became a You know some people got became enamored with a story it. He's he's wild west you know he's gonna go fully greed style with klepto and call you and then he's gonna slap you in your face and still win the game and all this stuff And then with them and that was pre that was that was built up. With all of this scrim god stuff where before they were even in the l. c. k. They're feeding world teams in screams. Because there were a night other teams around For the world seems as they as determined goes on and so there's just so much hype around them and for them to lose last year in quarters versus g to A lot of people start to Kind of write them off and And and their reputation took a hit there but that was literally You know the this is still part of the rise. Then this is only a two years in the making for dom one for them to go from l. c. k. Team two quarters to finals of worlds to animals as heavy favorites. It's a crazy. Assent and they. Their average age is is pretty much the same as the average age of the players. How how young these guys are. So you're wagging her finger mark is that is that no no no. No i'm saying like this hopefully can put to rest some of the like. oh we. We lacked leadership veteran show leadership. Maybe but like oh. We didn't have experience in these kinds of things. It's like shooting top had seven players. Who had never been to worlds before playing there and a lot of them were. Were super young. You know don bentiu world's once before. But i don't think that they like leveled up just because they went to worlds wants to think they loved up. Spring was not instant level because spring and elsa wasn't the dream that summer was for them. So yeah exactly like people got better for sure. I'm not nine. That growth can happen. But it's not like you need some level of experience like oh yeah bins eighteen now. He's that's why he's in the world finals. He's got it all figured out. You know like. And i these two. I mean i think this should never have really been a big talking point as much as it has been in the past about rookies and all this kind of stuff like come on. You can do it if you're good. That's that's your was the same in the jd suny series. It was like the old guy with like any international experience was sort heart. It was like nine of the ten players basically like having having actually many or at least been. They're very very little. Maybe this one. I'm forgetting about but Yeah i mean. It's it's completely true right and i think it is this kind of new wave of blair's right. This absolute elite level teams from the from the k. Are all like brand new players. That are just kind of rising to these incredibly high high so fast and daban has as just impressed me the most of any team throughout this entire event and it and it doesn't feel close. I don't feel like they've been challenged at all. Throughout the entire event they have what two losses now in the whole thing One loss g to in what was not even remotely close semifinal no losses in the quarterfinal one lost. Jj after they had already locked. I in groups that's it. There's there's just like they are so strong And i think that they're such a complete team that that it's really really hard to attack them. Because they do have a wide variety of strategies. They have incredible players pretty much. Every role. know. I do think that There was like some criticism kinda thrown towards their bottling and stuff at first but like people are realizing that like okay will their bottling actually is pretty damn good to can't really attack them that much you know Ghosh's actually been playing very very well throughout world st- We saw show maker like his is unreal. And it's getting through pick them because there's so many other things that you have to worry about like that last game on t.f. solo kills caps mid teleport's top off the base kills top lane than first altus words. Bottling kills them to like notary can can counter pick you and slam you can play a tank can play lulu an internet well that claiming martinez giving true. We can do that. He can do it all. Gets you a man who could do both But i mean he he can be like the. The primary carey can enable Kenyan who's had an incredible incredible tournament we've had multiple games now where he's found a good matchup for luta alongside a graves who he can then just like give farm to and just like funnel into this guy and then make him ridiculously hard to take down later on so they are just so strong because if such a diverse range of strategies i think their preparation is better than any team that i've seen as far as you know they're they're pick bands and stuff and they're like actual game level ones in the parisian. Been really good I guess to be fair. You know we did see Gts some incredible incredible level one especially in their quarter-final or got to give credit there. But i just think that donlon is like such a powerhouse. Such a heavy favorite. It's it's hard to not have them as the foreign above favorite You know coming into the finals. And i wanted to touch on you. Know we can try and jerk some tears from the from the the downside for the stories to people are talking about go specifically you know playing multiple years. This is not a guy that is new or dominated for a long time. He was one of the ones. That played for multiple years enters. Bb oliver's so much loss and and having to deal with you know fan flame flame and everything that goes with being on the losing team to have a big redemption ark and make it all the way to finals with favorite team the most dominant elsie k team is is also uplifting because you kind of when we are touching on earlier with You know feeling bad for the players that performed and know that they're performing bad. I think it's it's uplifting when you do get redemption stories like that because this is not something that's been handed out right you mentioned it. He's actually been performing well. And i feel very firmly that this world's once again has proven really heavily that you cannot hide weaknesses in any lane. If if you do have a weakness like you know okay we already use them for but support you die. This one of the most favorite teams but fanatic. They smell blood. They attacked that stuff every game over and over where multiple people all game long maybe an example closer to home like top lane zillow had go of it we've had middling carries we've had jungle heart carries it's It's it's really has shown you do need every everyone you have to be robust. Yeah i think that goes stories really cool. I mean he's still young to twenty one and but he started twenty fifteen. So like yeah. He's young but this has been through the wringer a little bit because people get chewed up in the case. Sometimes when you have these tough performances on your mental. Yeah so i think that balanced school and i think what's also really cool about it was in the regular season. He was like yeah pretty terrible. It was like negative ten. Or something. And i think a lot of people jumped on that. It's like look. He's not that good but he was playing a team game. You know like when you have show maker canyon. Nugget topside imperil. Who wants to rome gal. You're like okay. You know. I'm not gonna get in the way and say feed me. I wanna look good two guys and then the finals. They had the caitlyn draft when they they slammed. Dra humble yet my time when he got the caitlyn lex urine or now and he got his moment and he slammed that game. I think it speaks to kind of how we talk about. Angels show When putting the right moment he can do that to go. Ghosts is that where most games. You're probably not going to be the focal point. When it's time he can step up and crush you. And i think that's why don juan is so good because you get these teams. That are triple threats. Not like all three are activated at once. Like i might have been more that style in the past where everyone's trying to carry every single game. They are playing team games. But picking the moments when it's right for them reminded me of a story from way back when for me from from middle school on my on my basketball team. One of the things by coach said to me that stuck with me for so long. 'cause it was It was early on one of my first Truly competitive teams He tried to suck me in for For foul shot to win the game. And i like i was really really nervous. I was like are you sure and just me asking. Are you shirt to him. It was like sit back down only want. Yeah i only want someone who wants the ball You know someone who has confidence at this moment and so moments like that where You know it's a player lake like angel who has the lowest amounts of farm between fifteen and thirty given to him by lane assignments from the team. When you get the akali pick to go. Legendary is is so big. You know you want players that went when you give them the ball. They want the ball. They have the confidence they will dunk it like that. Even if you have to play other roles that player doesn't need the ball is not demanding it all the time like as a coach that you are in love with that player. You're so happy to work with people like that. So yeah. I think getting back into the dumb. I you go scott to show some of that in this series as well that he is actually a monster in his own right and i think it's a little bit talk about the the one game that youtube one. Because that's maybe what people are going to look at. And i and i mean that the way that. Gt1 their game was through this one. Three one was by playing silent more effectively. It was by attacking. If you're a nonstop they he got with the tftp in And caps which is way more effective than the sideline becky and then show maker. You know who took the silence which is supposed to be a good answer. The caps was was playing around your denying the all being stolen at critical times. Always kind of the first one to make the play And that's something that it's like it's hard to say that's a recipe to be down one because g to one of the best macro teams in the world and one of the best teams in the world that just playing that style. And i'm not sure that you can say all right soon just like go. Bg to in the side lane. It's not something that i think they can do like yes. There was the one three one game with the economy and stuff. But i just don't think it's the same. And i and i do think that you have to be able to play the map against against someone and be able to deny some of these critical picks from show maker because i think if show makers getting playside lanes and getting to be the one who who's actually dictating the pace game on t. f. it's gonna be near impossible because he has such a strong lehner and also is able to influence ever on the map. Yeah i I think we should get right into this. It's so fun getting into the into the actual final matchup. I always start from the underdog side to try. You know look for ways in and then as outcomes and he's like no we're going to slap this is but i really think you're a couple of specific picks have have shown to be really effective and i think the core is is what holds those picks together The leona and the twisted fate. Having this card see see engage options from your support role and depending on the rest of the team. Comp like i'm just using these as examples the twisted fate. it's it's the aspects of the kids at these to bring where you continue to try and force these errors on the side of don juan in in their setups for these plays and this is holds true in both of the the losses It was the Jd g game Early on and the ended in the one g two one they lost It's not necessarily these specific champions. But those tenants kind of hold true and i feel like su ning sunni. Pick a lot of crowd control from their bottom lines. It's it's either you know. See see kerry plus c support or At the very least a c. C. support and heart engaged and. I'm i'm just looking at the last piece for them to actually pull together which has been kind of more more aggressive takes towards the mid game because a lot of times soothing They haven't been so aggressive in some of their attempts to to cut plays off or to find picks i and they look a lot at team fights and they've been really good at executing. Those team fights by think with don juan. They're they're so good at then that once once they get their setup. It's going to be really tough. So i was looking more towards You know some of those things with the long range And mobility to be able to try and punish that like. I like the other thing i'd throw in for for something that happens in las is like is a lot better than last year but the whole kind of like run it down like he can boom in a game not not liking mental booms for the series or anything but like those fewer games can happen and bins also highly volatile. He had a pretty rough game in one of them as well. And so i do think if you can make the series a little bit about toppling which it feels like. They want to do in general based off their whole l. p. l. store history. You know like you can maybe make the series a little bit about toppling. They can do some interesting things. been still hasn't actually played when he had that the early then it's kind of like a flex but i wonder if they can actually put that in the toppling we'd interview afterward. He was like i have never scrambled shed champs pick or said it but he was like yeah. He hasn't played that in a single stream. You know but my some games. It's good i thought it was. I thought it might be a little. They were like he doesn't have any champs slept. I was like whoa Pity finals the play. But it is that the you know the jungle that's been whittled down really funny. Yeah just like if they can find adventures in-draughts doing clever things to try in because negeri also is a great pool. You know bouncing between lulu kiara tanks. Whatever and send does hold to one of those tents with the hard to see in the mobility to be able to make those types of plays with its fate barred leona. Fm style. To where like he as a farmer as he is smart about drinking and and making plays in these kinds of things he usually ends up building for the team and playing for the team and a lot of ways and shot is a team centric. Pixel i i hope to see like these kinds of things. Working in standings favor will bit some interesting drafts. Some toppling focus top tv. Two's these kinds of things that they can. Maybe pick on. Gary a little bit. I my worry. is that when i think of. The two big picks are the ones that i kind of perceive as the big pigs for been has been jackson. gp And i do think that it makes red side so incredibly important when we already know that nouri has has lou as an answer is so happy to play in the gp. And i also think that one of his best picks if not as best pick is canon and that is really difficult for jacks so now. These are the kind of like some of the concerns. That i do have. I do agree is much more flexible. he's he's playing a larger variety of styles. You know when we look at the at the jd series it was basically just like gp every single game right You know and he already has. Four jackson played. Ben does as as well. So like i do. Think that jackson's pecan can really work. But like from from my point of view when donlon's on blue side they're probably just gonna play play like aren't right. There's going to blind orne or maybe rejected and acting e even though been actually did three six nine. The jacksonville matchup. That's not normally how it goes So i mean. I i think that like you either benji b and you pick for next in or you just blind orange and you don't really care i'm going to return to banning on every game. Because they previous to that they had banned on every over naked. Because it's like brennan is actually good and everything has except gpc banji p. And you play. I just think that like to me like the toppling. Mashups are very easily dictated by dom one based on based on what we've seen. There's there's nothing that been as played that is actually good interacted with thanks. Thanks band you. What do sf You know you haven't played it yet. It doesn't matter. Slap him with a quin nicer netting. Get him back. I forget back for semifinals pl. Though i will say i mean flexibilities great and if you can play multiple styles that's better than just being play one style but you you can have one style like you can't just be like we're carry. Todd loses to the picks that the other guy has i mean hopefully he can think of over next encounter in some capacity a bike. It's not like we're this new thing you know he's been they've been playing into all year so i think it's bins most big champion. Yes i think he should feel comfortable with the fact that the guy wants a blue side. I pick or whatever. Early rotation a reluctant. That's not that's not new in any capacity as well as a fact that read size actually favorite in this. That's what i'm saying. Is i think that on red eye down one will be able to counter pick pretty for top With like lulu and cannon and these types of books Whereas like i don't i don't think that There's the same flexibility at least that has been shown pursuing. That's my concern and i agree. It is fine. It's all like all picked an extra. We lose the game. My point is just i if if you think that in asset go big for them to win this series. I think it's going to be really hard. A really hard series for on based on how these plays the plate and based on the picks at the inauguration shown. yeah. I mean i'm totally. The one's gonna win the series bandwagon. But i do think the same arguments were kind of being made about three six nine and like all this stuff. And then he just picked jackson to it anyways and he's like whatever dude i'm gonna play jackson. I'm going to win. Because i'm jackson. I'm ben and i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna try and make this work and esso. Fm's going to help me and you're not gonna be able to shut me down and you know for the most part it worked and wants to just take jackson. They're going to camp his lane and make it about toppling. Like and i think like saying with roadside being favorite thing. Yup both sides are going to prefer red side. So if you're early taking the rejected red side still is winning more games than blue in this current meta which is cool by the way because i almost never happens with how good the toddler worlds. It's cool to see. Actually they brought the world is now exposed to like. Hey when you actually howard counter pick read of it's pretty good So i'm excited to play to it out there. You're be the victim of air. It all out right now. They got the pick. Got a jungle and support ganked and then t.f ganged up like a minute later and he was almost won't be doing at all of us. I was cracking up my goodness. Yeah i felt felt pretty rough for for negative but yeah i think i think the fact that we're talking too much about top shows how important will be in this series. I do definitely agree. Things specific things though like Kenan really does slam jackson really hard. So you know maybe this is a more extreme scenario And there's a reason why everyone's you know bad Ben ben favoring tomlin this for this long sitting sitting needs to have have an ex actor right. They need to have someone playing above expectation. Because you're looking at everything on paper. I like don and it basically every rural like you know. I guess wong fung arguable i guess. So fm is arguable. Those are the ones where. I feel like That's that's more for grabs. You know you could make the argument about sort are two versus barrel But i do think like on paper dominant so heavily favorites. You need have players stepping up. You'd have that's where it comes in for coaching and preparation to like ken. Ken been come into the series. And everything that i think has now thrown out the window because all of a sudden you know he's playing the kennedy he's playing shannon east all these different picks or he brings the nahr it or whatever right like that is the kind of thing that i think can can really Mix things up and kinda throw a wrench gears for donlon. Because they need to have these big performances standout performances From from their players to upset them and the other thing. I can't remember who meshing this but it was like the idea that coming in last year a lot of people were thinking gee to coming into the finals. We're going to be heavily favored and like fbi wasn't really gonna be able to match up and fx. Just kinda ran over the manila game right and like none. None of the things. None of the reasons that people thought she was going to win. Ever came to fruition. Because everyone's like gte gonna get control. The map split them out and they're going to play silence. They're going to do all the stuff. Fbi can't do that. Well turn affects because they just beat you in the first minutes. everything right. And that's that's the kind of thing that can come in and like make predictions sounds stupid and assuming can make that sort of madge kaplan through preparation through picks through you know Unexpected kind of stuff. I think that this is going to be an incredible series. And i really do hope that it's going to be really competitive Because i think that the world's the knockouts h has had so many really exciting series. And i and i want this to be dom on really getting challenged. Because for the most part it's been cruising right and i feel like if they just cruise the final infield brady anticlimactic. Pitch for swimming is that they have been making magic happen and and it's not looking at individuals It is it is looking in a similar way to the fbi story where it was a lot about how they approach the game and and how You know doing be had perfected the roaming mid style With tian and and they were so good so used to doing it. I think that a lot of the magic from has been coming in. Were keep coming back to their execution in. Some of these team fights As well as so a fm Chain being so flexible with with his jungle To change to their needs so if it if it does become this story like you're saying and this this awesome finals. I think it comes in in that kind of picture and we get more of these super flippable moments of outplays and crazy coordination along all the been barrel and precise things things going off. So here's hope for that. I'm i am. I think so. I don't know if. I can present this in a way that you guys won't laugh. But if i was a betting man i would put my bet on don one. I think they have a higher chance to win. Your heart says. But i'm going to pick suining even though i think juan have a higher chance. Where's that spun clip where he on cool down one of these one of these worlds cool down was saying like anytime you hear. It analysts. say my head says this but my heart like they're really saying their head just ignore their other prediction. They're just trying to like the couch. No i'm not saying anything about head or heart. Like i think i'm going to have a higher percentage chance to win but i'm choosing soon i'm not gonna mess around with you give you any of that bullshit. Just after eight ben prediction. I'm going anyway. I really don't care at flip-flopping use the opposite on the twitter prediction for the twitter poll. Both sides try to says. Yeah i'm gonna slam ostlund my twitter prediction right about. That's that's that's the real move is such a scattershot and be like if anyone wants to check me on all like places you'll find but then that lasts last week the one that's right. This is really good for it. What about you guys. Let slam Predictions get into. And i want to believe in assuming upset but i might my gut feeling is. It's going to be antisemitic. Three zero three one. same thing as a semifinals. I just think for similar reasons to why why fell that way about g do but i really do hope that soon can can bring that like next level and can have something new prepared and make it into an incredible series but my gut feeling is if these two teams the same level that they've been playing it's going to be a three zero three one for it. I'm on sale. I I doubted don for the last time versus g to predicted. Oh said it would. It wouldn't actually like whoever one probably wouldn't be close. The bright side is even get flamed on twitter for john so nope but that fourth game made me feel pretty stupid. You know where. That's trying to get dancing. Rift harold in the world semi Records this world's one teams finals rectal not just european once Our first seagoing zero six. That is a record for us. Let's record record. for first. major reasonably specify mina region was mad. Lions your fast. This game ever in world history reverse sweep yeah rivers. I number one seed not not now record records. Well good record for for donlon fast. Exactly good for top hooper natty supermassive. Yeah yeah hey no no. No supermassive supermassive Unicorns moved on. Oh you're talking about the elimination thing. Yeah anyway it's all perspective. My point is these teams says one of these new records better take notice and so when when they have dance trying dancing rift gerald and world semifinals. That's probably the one that you bet on. So yeah i'm going A three one and i missed. It could be three. Oh and i. i feel every world's like once the like the best team in the world. They they usually just end up smashing files by the time they get there because they've built apologised momentum in like the the meta's more figured out by finals and a lot of these things are happening in so unless suiting really is the second best team in the world which i think they are. They look really good but they sure are but they can also then rise to the level of the first best team in the world now at the medicine settled and both teams have been grooving a little bit like i feel like you know the variation gets pressed out as you go which is why i think dhamma would because sales point when he's referencing freak and free talking about if you wish is the most Like it's not like they didn't do all the other steps there either number one or another to for sure having taken out l. p. l. number one number two to be clear the reason i said that was because world finals are traditionally stops. And i feel like it's because of those things like your maybe not the actually the second best team which has happened earlier on the tournament. You have a pretty define meta by this point. And you have these teams with momentum and stuff and they're grouping and there's probably quite the same level of of uncertainty so yes probably could be the second best team but you still have these other two concerns weird though i will say and i fall. Victim this too. There's like the decided yet. We're top one. We probably would think it was closer. You know what. I mean like it kind of that mental thing. Sometimes where it's like because it's a team that you expected and because breach Expectations were top into amman. Were the two big dogs. If top got there you might be more willing to believe even though soothing just be top. It's it's almost like the idea that like the magic is going to run out right. You know soon gonna turn back into a pumpkin. The clock strikes midnight at a message across trash but like but if this is their true level right and if you believe that they are performing at a higher level rather than top jd year performing worse That's where it really comes down to to me. Then because those things are true then a lot of it comes down to context of how how the wins and losses. Look you can have a computer. Have a computer do ratings based on You know placings and stuff like that but so much of it is how they look when they're doing it. Yeah don don. Juan looks which just i test like watching them. Look absolu- the best. I think also to the point about like how we feel about these things is. It's hard to throw out the entire years worth of data so to speak or at least like the last split even. If you don't wanna go back to spring for relevance reasons but like don. Juan spring sending listening in the playoffs. They were eleventh right. I mean they've they've been on meteoric rise if we want to talk about meteoric rises as well going from that to fourth or whatever. It was in summer but yeah therefore don. Juan has just been stopping all summer. They stopped they stopped they stopped. They stopped the stops. Have been non stops since summer started for someone. So that's why. I think it's not just worlds. That were probably like for why you feel like but you know what's better top. Were finals both splits right. So people don't throw it all of history just because you've got one different thing to happen and even in spring where we're like. Oh yeah you know wasn't as grain spring they weren't as dominant they. They were still fifth in spring and then fourth in the playoffs and springs good. It wasn't like Crazy crazy anchor questions. It easy the first name is easy. Nick shields nailed it nick. Hey guys it's nick shields first of all why to say huge fan of the dive and you're all excellent casters analysts and i hope you keep up the excellent work. My question for you is if someone takes over this weekend. Do you think we'll see basically another iteration of dominance that s kt had previously. And by that. I mean do you think don one has what it takes to if they do stick with the same roster to claim multiple world titles and bring l. c. k. back to its former glory seeing how that one hasn't really been tested to well this tournament and they've seen pretty like destroying every team in dominant fashion. So i wanted to know if you guys think that this could be like the next s. k. T like reincarnation or do you think that like after this performance teams will catch up to them in the offseason and another team will come to challenge their title Thanks again and looking forward to the show when it comes out like this i like this question And it cat reveals that he's been watching for a long time because only people that have been to pay attention to league of legends for a long time like thinking terms of dynasties people who who have just started tuning into lowly sports or even the past few years It's it doesn't spring to your mind. That quickly and i've learned i've learned very very quickly that that was such a special thing with t. Do not hand out. Oh maybe maybe it's a dynasty after after a single world championship win because we've had so many teams win and not even return like the fbi whereas the whereas i g now like at the time that they won you know the winner always seem so dominant you keep on having all these three zeros And as as hype as as i will get I've learned to be very conservative with handing out you know. S k t s titles for for that that you really gotta prove those i think Who can say about that part Know maybe maybe down launch excuse running back and they stop and they stop and the their sat levels esqotique did some stumbles even during that dynasty. Like did it make worlds in two thousand fourteen. But then they came back in twenty fifteen. But i think one thing that people forget with the era of korean dominance was it wasn't just s. Kt like i might be getting this fact wrong. But i don't think they lost a best of five to another region During like twenty fourteen we had. We had several career finals in a row and or like the semifinals would be. Skc verse rocks. Which was the hype this match and then. Sat would be some ch- a like it's happened with the team And i know that they they were m s is where we're career las pl there were Teams in groups that got knocked out. Who unperformed in groups from l. c. k. But i think part of the reason that the era of dominance just felt so like you draw korean team. You're dead in in a knockout stage because no one could beat them during that time and even if delmonte becomes sat. I don't think. John g is becoming samsung white and blue. And you have like these insanely stacked rosters from all the all the korean teams. I don't think that that will happen. I don't think because then you're asking the l. p. l. to regress you not like hey can elsie produce the best in the world but also are these other reasons going to be incapable of producing teams can challenge the second and third best from from l l c k. I don't think that part will happen again. Yeah i agree. I i don't think that like elsie. Kay former glory ever coming back because to your point it was such an insane. Level dominance across the board wasn't just one team winning world vinyls. It wasn't just one team barely. Winning world vinyls. It was like you create your dead right. And i think you put that really well and i also just tend to think if i had to guess i don't think don juan is going to be repeating. I think that the teams are so good. And i still believe that the l. p. l. is by far the strongest league. I don't think it's close. And i think that you know as far as like depth of teams my feeling is that top and d. g. both laid worse than their average level in this tournament. I think that other teams will be rising up to challenged online even if one does remain the best elsa gates am. I just don't see them remaining so much better than everyone else in the world that they get back to that Sat levels dominance every year in the mail. There's some insane. New team of like mostly rookies. Like i was v five this year. Who is on the rise like who knows at the beginning of the insane and next year in the world cow from mole. He's a s- murph. I i would also say because you got me reminiscent And even just bringing up the times where we could not see past You know korean teams. I think something that really hammered home was specifically. How insanely hard samsung white did smash. When when they took over when they came in for that year and one 'cause people still to this day will bring up that team as the best league of legends team of all time and and that was not an sat roster so that was one of the things that just really was a vice grip on it. I need to move on. Because you're next question. Yeah this one's from me. Where does five in the meta mark. Kobe you me nick. Fan of the podcast. I just want to know. What do you think about my big rocky boy. Mel fight and where he fits in the metal using his strong using his week. Do you think he's cute using just so you guys think is big rocky boy's cute. He's really cute. I think he's especially acute into. Ad top leaders. Such jas a better if it's a whole team the more the better for sure I think they've al fayed. Does i think that he's situation. Although i don't think this is something you should be blind. Picking personally Because i think he sucks against. Ap top liners. If if i'm playing a blind fight i play casio or vlad arise into it every time and has no fun So i think that that is something that can be pretty difficult but I do think that in times when people are blind picking like a rally or jas or those types of even even camille. I think mouth can be incredible. I think Even the first game of suining burst tops was a game where malfa could potentially worked into the jase. It makes your team completely different. You'll have a powerpoint early on because not really playing around but in those kinds of games you can play. We've seen malachite a couple times at world's already as well so if you're wondering go look at those games Try and find a games. I know impact had one a couple others. Yeah it usually wins when people do picket. Yeah because people only as counterpoint. They'll be like okay. You're showing four. Ad right now and you're only is some single target ap or some assassinate piercing like that and use it. Yeah it's it is. Also if if ken gets banned in like a protection for jacks angle and and they're trying to do something like that it's also a good into into like jackson. The and then the other perot is obviously the you know. The heart engage That that you do bring onto like possible poke cops. That's why it's so. Good verse. Jason because jason's usually in comps and he's also sorry to tangent back a little bit. But you got me thinking. Kobe your boy. Your roommate travis made a video about the best players world's ever seen and they talked about samsung. Whiten it and there's some stats in there. That are like how dominant samson was if anyone's curious about that just go bandy dandy and mata their control over vision was insane. You shouldn't have brought me back. Mark all right keep going to jail was the last one mitchell agra no i believe and he says and he best from five in the past you would like to see become seven. Hey guys the show my question is. Is there any best to five in the past that you would have liked to have seen become best of seven zero spoiled it for me. He read the whole thing. Then like the little kind of the -til. Dr of it was actually just the question. So i should not read the. Do you have your answer. Because i i wanted to shoot from. The hip is fast fast as word gets their down for sure. She gave me the courtesy. You like you spun on me. You had the gun dry and you're like what about you know like there i think. Gts ktar series. I mean there's been some really good runs A lot of the finals aren't really the usually the bangers. So those the ones that i would wanna see see more of gobi. D two team liquid. Msi so that wouldn't be the fastest best interest. What do you say. I think katie edgy would be cool to see more of a question how much that was coming. In as well a and then. I think there's more et cetera. But e d g i is. Sat at twenty fifteen. Msi had an interesting one. I think there are some some of those pretty cool. I mean honestly for me anytime. It goes full five games. I'd be down to watch more if it's a five game series and it's close right like if you said top fanatic wanna play more games. Yes i'm watching him right. You know like anytime. it's really close in. Those are the ones that i want to see more of because it's is going to continue that way. How much more do you have to give. D have more counterparts those types things but i would say in general bessis evan. It's too many games though. When you mentioned the top fanatic wanna mike if it is a reverse sweep and you feel it you know the kind of drifting away from the team that started zero would be where i would say. Maybe maybe not this too. Oh and then there's four wins for the team right. That's true though they'll make it feel close but you never know what happened right then. The reversals then losing four in a row. No one comes back impossible of all right. That is going to do it for this week's episode of the dive. Thank you again for tuning in and thank you to honda for making this possible. Takes donlon one at three. Am pacific on saturday in front of a live audience for the first time in a long time to find out Who on the or the world championship.

travis reggie bjork ashforth jensen peo bergson Solomid kobe burks pentacle buric newman leonard grass europe rosser jackie rick licorice lehner jensen al faris farra
The Dive | Imports, "Who's the best Robin," and LCS Week 3

The Dive

1:21:54 hr | 7 months ago

The Dive | Imports, "Who's the best Robin," and LCS Week 3

"Hello and welcome back to the season. Five episode seven. We've made it halfway through the split and as a quick reminder. We are going to continue to push out these episodes at five. am on tuesdays. So set your alarm if you want to wake up because we will not let nobody waking up that early. And he's sports kobe. Hey on the east coast man people different time zones will wake up that. I think you have a better chance of saying before you go to bed. You can catch the dive five. Am true true to ask your mind your so. Look you games after you die to the boss valhalla again. And while you're going to get your your body back you can listen to us. How has that been market. I heard the travel. Times are really bad. I think israel is saying that. Yeah so. I'm pretty early in the game. Be my first boss and like the knicks zone is pretty close. But i do feel like i can see in the future a time where i'm going to be like i don't want to have to wait. I see me just like build a new town or something again. you can be portals. You can build a little towns along the way but like damn the travel time is something that game for the second boss. I was playing with my friends. It took somewhere between an hour. Fifteen minutes an hour and a half minutes to get to just to get there and then it's like you get there and we kill the boss. And i was like i even wanna walk back now. I think i'm good. Thanks gonna lock out. Never play again. So that's where i'm at fell head forever. Yes if i ever accomplishment. Let's give them have to walk back unless maybe my friends the portal or something building new homes. Yeah we did but then you have to. You have to get everything over there. Anyway doesn't matter it's pretty let's talk a bit about fantasy. I lost again. Fantasy sucks harm the winner. I want today. Fz kobe kobe just luck. He just doesn't realize how lucky is if you take you. Direct your eyes to the point against this is how well your opponents are doing against you which you don't control at all really nine hundred sixty. Two point lead band away. The most points against any in the league complaints against doesn't include the bands. You got nine hundred sixty two points against the base. I have thirteen hundred. Sixteen points against me is the base. We got the same. Amount of points earned kobe. I also have the highest points band away from my opponents yet again. This week. I bend away seven bands from crumbs and i would've lost if i did not ban away points from cross judge presiding judge mark z rules in favor of kobe. His wins are legit. He's not just a lucky dog. He is the ban lord he can get. There could be a coach gap and he could also be a locker dog. it could be both. That's the best to be to be skilled and lucky. Yeah exactly yeah go ahead. i'm currently neither. I'm just I have a roster. That's not playing. Well even my first pick like okay. My still bottling is going to struggle some games and gonna gonna turn stinkers. I expected that. I did not expect the amount of stinker games. I'm getting out of some demonte as my first you picks so. I'm definitely feeling a little sad. Dr talks the hero and my team right now. I'm loving him But yeah. I'm not not feeling great. I think i'm gonna stay down. The bottom of the standings their tactical tactical really steps it up. He's not doing so well for me. Tactical really has not been getting the points. I was expecting i was like well. Just one locking of course a marksman is going to be racking up all these kids. They're going to be winning all their games. Tactical really has not gotten too much done for me at all and blaze. All of has been like tank in my team. He one hundred point gap between plays all of in every other mid later every week. It feels like got mega point. Seven points in his first game and like three points in a second game. I'm looking over my phone. And i was like ninety points so like what. Am i supposed to do here. Come on blaze. All you got to ban away every single champion appointment later played or else you're screwed by niles or something. I band away. The only positive game that niles had crumbs got negative points for having him. I was struggling for sure. I've seen him have back to back. Negative point games for crumbs this week so at least i don't have house. I guess but a word attending league. So there's no roster swaps to be made because every player has been picked up so You know maybe. I just got a got a big plays olive to to drag out. The games gets more dragons or something you know my my match also and it came down to like ten point difference or something and i had impact as the last player playing and i was just hoping that e. g. wouldn't as them and that it would go like elder elder dragon and stuff. It was that exists. Uk went back for the elder to help you get those fantasy points to it will. He didn't elder he got. Yeah got infernal soul. But you know this was. They had that one fight in the base and impact with him but his tv got interrupted. So we got no assists. Otherwise i actually would have won if he got us on all those skills so close. Yeah yeah it came down came down to the very end. He's been pretty fun. You know it seems like retirees has already won the whole league. She's like four hundred points both second place or something the triple cloud nine however she has just absolutely farming. Everyone our big topic this week. If you've been on social media all you've been seeing meves about it you've been seeing re tweets on it. Imports imports imports. The owners lawn them. Fans hate them the players even though it's all the rage right now there's go go ahead go. I'm just kidding imports. The fans definitely don't want the entire league to be to be important to the overall especially with how much You know work has got into getting even the conversation going around building up new. Na talent and infrastructure and investing you know the next generation of stars and players Coming fourth i think it is really easy and simple to lay out the theoretical owner side of this which has been talked about ever since we had to import rule by the way. This conversation is not a brand new conversation. It's just come to the spotlight in the community right now because all ten teams Have kind of got a lot before at the same time and some some interesting characters have had some interesting takes on it in a very public more. I will say like okay. So and i'm not. I'm not for removing the rule. By the way. I'm just going to lay out there For their side for the simple side of it it's simple supply and demand for their argument. They're saying yes. We want to make more competitive teams if we increase the supply we should theoretically with the same restrictions And even if they claim oh we're going to spend the same money You should theoretically be able to get You know stronger team to have more Players to scout through they also could save more money Because things like inflating salary of of a player that has residency in north america. Right now really does go through the roof because of the import rule and so that's that's kind of the setup for it they're they're it's a lot more nuance than that though. And you kind of ignore the fact that then you lose out on on north america the north american players. Yeah i mean the the side the problem. I have some with like the owners things. I haven't really heard a great argument for why they think this will actually be good. Not just for like one team. Success potentially at world citgo little further but like for the scene as a whole because it's global rule. They have just sold ownership over what happens to this rule. You know it does affect every league and it would be largely as far as i can tell negative. Not just for north america. We obviously take north american perspective. Because we're all an eight year but like you would see talents from other regions coming over. Like if you're going up against jovi and let's say you're also not show maker on the rx or whatever and you're beatty d like maybe just come to na and you and you you have better shy winning a which sounds good at first for us but then l. c. k. becomes less interesting less competitive because a lot of talent gets spread around across the world which is not great already said any talent lofton get pushed down and it is something that also one of the things that i've done a couple of polls on other situations like on hotline leaguer on twitter and stuff and it's about seventy percent of fans seemed to be against it know not saying that like this is the optimal polling but at least from all the data i can find seems pretty heavily not what the fans want and it. It gives big like you think you do. But you don't vibes from from like wow classic like that's that's the kind of vibes. I'm getting especially with how the owners are interacting with fans who are saying they're not interested in this It's very big. You think you you don't fives. I mean i just think it's of course the owners want this right. It gives you more options. Yes if all you care about is either being having options for for your rosser to you know it's like okay. I want to spend all this money. All right now have more players choose from. I don't have to get this guy on my team. If i could buy a korean play for a million said gray okay. I understand that and i also understand the perspective of i want to save money. I'm an owner. I want to spend the least possible amount on this team. While having the best possible and well you could maybe do that. By buying up amateur players from europe or korea or china you know go checkout you masters by a team go watch a little bit of the l. pl academy by team right like i. I understand why they wanna do that. To your point mark. You know you're saying you haven't heard a great argument for why it's good for league. I think that's because it's not good for league. It's not for the scene and there is no real argument other than hey like oh week win worlds maybe or hey. I'm gonna save some money but they're not going to say that because that's like not a good argument for them to make because fans don't care and i think that at the end of the day it's it's weird to me that like in these owners statements. I'm hearing the like alongside that we're going to put more into a cat like misdirect. No you're not like why would you do that. You know they're they're already is this year has been the biggest push forward on amateur and academy and any talent coming into lcs. And it's like an now is when you're making a big push to have no import rule to me that that's the exact opposite right like these are two diametrically opposed things. It's like if you get all of these imports and you unlock players from all these other regions. There's no reason there's no logical reason to continue putting more money into emperor right like there just isn't that people are going to double down there. Investment for amateur for the scene when all of a sudden. You don't even need any players anymore and i think that if you fill the lcs with imports you also kill any motivation for up and coming talent in north america even try to go pro like why would i bother if the league is already filled with imports from from around the world right. There's just no spots to be had. So i i think it would be a huge blow to To the north american scene. And i also think you know coming from a background backup to cast autographed too. I watched all the matches. I played all the time. I lived in in the pro gaming house. With all the starcraft guys right like i lived and breathed starcraft. I was around twenty four seven and to me even though like the l. was the highest level. You know that was a the korean league and yes. Sometimes a foreigner qualified him. But like pretty much only koreans. I i loved watching dsl but wcbs was basically and it was like the equivalent of worlds. Right where you have people qualifying for all the region they will go and compete and my favorite memories. All my favorite memories of soccer matches were watching these like underdog stories. A kind of warner take down one of these incredible koreans and having this feeling of cheering for the home team right cheering for the underdog. And i love that and when they did you take them down. You had these memorable matches that just stick with you. And i have the same feeling when cloud and i made semi's when -til made finals of msi when seal g you know made files. Msi these matches were so meaningful to me And when they removed the region lock essentially what happened. Was you by korean players. Then just go qualifying every region so all the north american representatives became became korean all the european representative essentially became korean. You know minus maybe like one or two of the absolute elite players. Like maybe there's like a scarlet in their authoritarian. Or you know a whatever estefan or something and it just like killed the feeling of the home team right and to me. It's like if you bought them one and put them on in lcs. And damn one world again. Would i get that feeling of like. We finally rightly lurs alert. Look look how. Kobe reactive when cloud. And i made seventies the man was was emotional like that was a genuine reaction that was amazing right and i felt like that too right like armor washington game also casting that game by was jumping up and down screaming like we were like people were feeling like. We're going to cry and like we're you know we're emotional we're vested and it was like dad. We finally did it right. We've finally fucking did it and you will never get that. Never if you remove the import rule and you fill the league with a non-resident players. So i'm really passionate about this. I really hope it never happens. Yeah the the craziest part of me. I agree with everything that you said is is the timing of it because as you started out we had so many episodes where we're talking about building up any talent and our starting to see you know the emergence a tactical on the world stage had a great performance and speak an all these budding stories. That are starting out just a just to come in in with this. You know Removed the import rule. Now seems like Kind of a crazy coincidence of timing there that there is no way that i i don't know how they would think that anyone would have a positive reaction to this and i guess it's no surprise that there hasn't been and that's that's why i'm surprised all ten owners are seemingly for it because yes it makes their jobs easier in some sense but it also you would think just like long-term great for those reasons even like a volkan had a tweet. About how like okay you bring them over make them playing a for a year on sixty paying with worst competition and then you put them up against the best team like. Do you think they win. And i think most people probably not and that's assuming you get the absolute cream of the crop best team that you can possibly assemble in this situation so like i don't see it really resulting in what the owners want anyways on top of the fact of all this stuff and a lot of the arguments just really don't laugh for me like a team saying like oh we're a global france worth global organization. We have teams in rainbow six. That's from europe per brazil or something. That's different seen you play in a regional league right now. We have a regional system here and there's comparisons to overwatch league and stuff but overwatch league was a single league you know all the teams had to play in that league. There was not another league in korea that play with better competition and better players that you could just watch another night that those people could be fans of all the korean players who played an overwatch. Lee brought the korean fan base with them. But if you get discount dom juan on a they're not going to necessarily bring the korean fan base with them and so like you get this really a lot of really bad comparisons that i just don't think hold up all under scrutiny and like you said it's a lot of feels like a lot of misdirection instead of just stating the actual case that you think that would that would be the strongest case because none of these really hold up. You know like you think it's going to be easier to win. Maybe i would rather hear that argument. Then like we're we're global org some of these kinds of things. Yeah i've heard some the fans you know. I think most fans are against it but some of the fans of also seen referencing churchill's words like well. I don't care like i cheer for cheer for the yankees the yankees get the best players from wherever they're from and it's like. Yeah but there's there's a difference because there's geo location intra-regional sports right for the raptors. And i don't actually care if if the raptors are eating or not because that is what the team that is associated with my home right like that is is something different and i just don't think like realistically that the lcs and really most sports at all Are actually ready for jill location. And that's kind of to me like felt like it's been proven a bit I don't think that it really worked with overwatch. it's enormously expensive to actually have a home city and try to have this travelling roadshow all around all the time not just travel expenses but actually all the teams having to set up their own like stadiums own studios and everything to be able to have it in different locations. It's just not feasible really at this point right. There is still that that gap. And i don't think that you can sell out in sports stadium. Besides maybe like an l. p. l. where it's just so enormous And they actually do have some geolocation different cities. i just. Don't think that it that it's ready right now. for for almost any game or any region except maybe china. So i i think it's important to to maintain ties with regional players. And the only other thing i'll say and then i'll let you guys go wherever you want is that. There's already a ton of imports in the league right. It's not as though there's no imports here like all. The top teams already have to imports. Plus someone with residency pretty much right. Like look at team liquid right. It's just tactical you have Jensen who he built his career here and that does feel very different than just getting fresh important. So i think it's great that he has earned residency because to me is basically just any player if felt the same way about in these guys built their careers here in the earned that residency But you know team. Liquid has to imports They have you know. Stay in turin. And jensen who are europeans but earn residency and then one and a player who has residency right like. It's not as though there's not already a ton of imports and the league. There are the thing i like about residency is it removes the mercenary feeling that people are scared of and that's what people are scared of with this news of you know fully removing an import rule and being scared of full teams being bought up. Just coming over winning leaving and not really building. Those connections or setting down roots buric skin has had is basically whole career in north america for sure. A north american player even european fans. Don't try and make the european midland jokes with with brixton anymore. Like four sure through and through like these these guys are making their whole lives When they move over here about about north. America the whole careers but also. They're you know they all have girlfriends. Their families a lot. Lots of stuff is like it's just. I think the the skit the only scary thing is like you know the i guess just coming back to the mercenary. Feeling that that's what that's what people don't want and then and we've seen some of these arguments gets taken to the extreme of of like. Oh so you don't want you don't want any foreign players and that's just. That's kind of a falsehood right there. Yeah i mean. Everyone is fine with a path residency because that gives them time to grow in the community in the scene. You know you start out you know. Maybe we're not super connected to core. Jj the first time he came to north america you know but then over time and having more success in spending more time in the community people warm to him saying with impact. You know like people were excited to get a world champion at first. But i think the over the six plus whatever it is years. He's been here. It's grown to be like all the top dimes memes and all this stuff that really contributes to the community that you don't necessarily have if it's someone who had never played in the seen before Sales earlier point. I get that same feeling. If if i see impact up on stage clapping people for north america and actually getting a victory l. Yeah i'd be fucking cry cheering and screaming right us off because impact is impact. Is a baby like yeah. That's that's the difference. And i will acknowledge that like some fans. Don't care and i don't want to pretend like these fans don't exists or not acknowledged their feelings and stuff because like if you're fan. I just want the best team available. I wanna watch the highest league of legends. And you want you know. You don't care if team liquid goes and spends money to if this rule got removed and they grabbed a bunch of people. And you just you just wanna see know. Team liquid succeed. That's fine like that's totally okay. I don't. I don't think that's necessarily you're wrong to think that way but i think you do have to acknowledge that the majority of the fans do not think that way and the scene as a whole will suffer from that and you still have the option to watch the highest league of legends right now like i know the time zones aren't great but like you can watch l. p. l. you can watch l. c. k. And watch those best players in the world currently in our minds and see them compete almost every night of the week. You're not really losing anything with the current setup that you would get in the new one if you did. Remove the import rule. Exactly i mean if you don't if you don't have any ties to team or to the region and you just care about the alleged team just go watch the world champion team play right like and i think that it's it. There's evidence that people do actually care. You know maybe they don't necessarily You know it doesn't hit home into until they do watch but like l. p. l. l. p. l. english broadcast is going to be fair and i think they have wonderful casters. Actually really like it. I watch a lot of l. p. l. but when you look over the last handful of years like the opium has been dominating and two three years ago like size tune into to an l. p. l. english broadcast on twitch and top games. We'll get some visa viewership but like open up five thousand people watching right And there's not a youtube stream for l. l. english that was the whole viewership and sometimes it's a lot better than than it is growing As i said. But you know. I think at the end of the day like i love having the connection to the players. And it's an na rookie coming up. I've probably seen them in. Zoellick always seen them at amateur. I've probably seen the mclean. I've seen them somewhere. You know like revenge coming in some players asked me like what's the difference between a new any rookie coming in and an l. p. l. And it's like well is a good example. Because he's he's accused are so it's like maybe that one's like a little bit too unfair or whatever But still like. I got to watch him play and like you so many times and see him on people streams and i was excited to see how you match up. You know even guys like niles. I watched collegiate right and i got to see them win in collegiate and wondering how they're going to stack up and i think that you do develop a connection Because i watch a lot of two extremes. I watch a lot of of this stuff and you get to see these players of the year so even if their freshly lcs some experience with them have some experience watching them and you know have maybe some preconceived notions and it makes me excited to see them. Go to the next level all right mark. I know you wanted to talk about this. I want to talk about this a little bit to most competitive lcs. Ever you know. It's i feel like it's something that comes up every year people get excited. There's a couple upsets. And then someone's gonna yell out. Most of 'em are is it the most competitive lcs we've ever seen no no not at all not even close. Not even you know within smelling distance of that You know we have some teams that are legitimately far below the others. What giggling distance. How long how strong is the smell like. There's another saying. I couldn't quite remember about farts smell to you. Dealt it yeah. I don't know whatever the point is. It's not close all right. No offense gene golden guardians. And you're not you're not even close to nine or hundred years right now and we have had splits where this split ended in. Everyone was within like three games of each other. We'd had a six way tie for second or third place. Whatever it was in two thousand eighteen spring hundred was like last place in within the last two weeks grabbed first place in the regular season or something like we had in saint splits. We had splits with envy in lira. Jangling were they were like not over cakewalk. And like he would he would hulk out on you and they were like actually decent as the quote unquote last place team. You know like. I just don't see how this can is even close to me and even the top end like you can maybe say that like. I don't think nine right now is like this insane. Oh team with one hundred also this insane oh team and by the way tosses this insane oh team in like we're going to have a great international performance or i don't think there's evidence of that so two thousand eighteen summer three games between first place and seventh place between third place and seventh place. Just put it into context that that was i think You mentioned spring. I think summer was even closer to like that to me. Was the split. That i was thinking of where it was like optic went nine. Nine didn't make playoffs and second place was cloud nine with two more wins than them. You know that was that was insanely close. As far as standings as far as competition. This one feels pretty like there's there is. There are upsets in the habit surprises. And i think that's what's leading to this feeling of like. Oh my god. I thought sealed. You'd have a couple more wins. Or my god tells only five and four and they just one lock in. Wow this is really just beat this team. Oh my god. So there have been upsets. I do still have that feeling though that like by the end it's going to be the top four is going to be glad ninety. Sm hundred hundred isn't ntl. And i like that. We have a really strong for up at the top and and if they can toss can continue to surprise itchy upset that will be even more exciting but if we have four or five teams that legitimately could take down and playoffs. Plus is going to be incredible. Like that's going to be so fun. You don't need ten teams and really we don't have ten teams that are legitimately challenging for the championship right now. This is a problem whenever anyone uses hyperbole or goes for a most ever statement because if if people are making the statement hey our top end of the league is really competitive right now. You guys like yeah yeah great. I'm all on board you a great one because we have had a lot of seasons where it is only a few teams at the top. That you know are You know the top three teams and then you have maybe a middle bracket and then you also still have the bottom one but right now i would say you know top six because i do include dignatories and i do include evil geniuses in this band with cloud nine. Csm hundred thieves team liquid as all being able to take off each other easily on on any given day. And i think that is exciting. And that's the feeling that people are are latching onto. Yes you do. have the you know. Bottom bottom four kind of on the outs on the outside on the bottom. But you know that has been been kind of the story of this split of development rosters and the development leagues and split is. Maybe i don't have data because we only have leaks to go off of and rumors to go off for For salaries for teams. But this is at least very close to a year where of yet we have had some of the biggest discrepancies team spending ever because their situations are so different. You know a cloud nine pm obviously having those really big highly publicized giant signings and then teams like golden guardians coming out with videos a talking about how their funding is removed. And and they're going with this different route so Given that kind of stratosphere of difference. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah i agree has has been a really fun. Split not the most competitive ever. I would say the honda henry time. What opondo we love you. This time. we're going to do a fun award So we're gonna talk about instead of you know who's the actual honda. Mvp or who we think is going to be that we're going to mix it up bit so this is going to be the benghazi hort bangor even really worked for it. But who do you. Guys think is the second best player on the team. The best second best player so like means robin award batman because bangi was really good. And i'm not trying to make anything. Yeah yeah he was. He was rarely even the second best player in his team. And he didn't get the attention that he was almost kinda memed as not being that good but he was actually really good. He was not the flashy player. Okay so it's the best robin award. I like the robin award for sure right. Who's your who's your pick for the best robin So we're saying currently right so we kind of have to have to do right now. A little bit off of off. Palette teams are doing right now. So you gotta go with a team. That's got an obvious batman. Also so i'm saying i'm saying right. Now labradors batman. Yes and i'm going to say that. Vaulting robin okay. Nope nope go ahead. Vulcans vulcans cat cat girl cat woman to me. Yeah like the third the third one or what work. Yeah yeah lower on batman. I guess back girl he's focus back girl then is robin van is event is the i think the most consistent member on that team i almost never see then being dumdum messing things up ben. Incredible as a consistent care for the team and blabber like you're saying batman making all the flashy plays robbins. They're swooping into like you know i don't know is falling apart. Give me so. I wanted to up. And then ask you guys who who fudges your man world for this because you can make batmobile and fibers flowers driving around in butler. What's the butler sandwiches. Alfred like blabber uses him right blabber he's useful to blabber so he's got to be like the batmobile or maybe he's like batman's utility. Yeah like you know. He's he's one of the batterings or something you know blabber can go up there and be like go fudge and throws out his fudge fudge likes maxim and then get some kills and throw back to fighting crime. My problem with the with the cloud. Nine example is. There's there's a lot of good candidates for for robin power rangers. Yeah yeah exactly does kind of feel like that. So i was trying to go down the list and and trying to go through it with either team liquid or dignifies every team liquid core. Jj batman yeah exactly and i was gonna throw a robin to alvar so so that was my team liquid one but my boss one i then got stuck on like okay is I'm pretty sure. That dr doc is batman. Because he's doing all the the jungle challenge. They literally built the team around him. He was the first one signed But if if africa is robin robin is is looking pretty buff. Think go ahead. I i was gonna say i don't know if dardar personality wise we'd be able to handle being called the robin of the team. You know like. I think africa take that and be like whatever man be chill about it. But like dot has to be batman. You can't them number two. But i feel like i feel like afros. Kinda the rookie. Whisper player of the week this week. He's east common feeling pretty batman to me. It's it's a. It's a tough call there though but those are some pretty good answers. I i like the segment. this is a fun one. Maybe we'll come up with some more fun ones But that's gonna be r haunt. Mvp section thank you again. Honda onto the lcs. So we're at our. Midway point of the spring split right obviously. We're six weeks into competitive because we had locked and everything but we are at the halfway point. What are you big surprises. Like what is actually mostly stood out to you. Thus far nine games and i'd say there's one big positive and one big negative in terms of like perception that it'd be dig and dig has been very pleasant surprise. They're really fun to watch the do creative things. They're generally pretty active. I like washington sauce games. And i'm glad that this team of five a player's going out there especially with younger players you know competing with with neo looking great and stuff in seattle. Just been like what you just one. Lock in like two weeks ago. Why are you losing all these games. Now that's been a bit of a bummer. But i'm not too worried about them dig natasha's for sure my story because afra- mu people been calling for his head. His career to be over people were calling for him to retire and yet he does it again. He's been performing really well by himself by the way not. Just oh the rookie whispering on raising up these rookie eighty carries. He is performing individually so well. He's leaning all these hooks. Allah star initiations Seeing him back on the On the all star once again Really does bring bring back some really good memories. plus then they've got the all these guys that were rejected from all these different teams you know. Having the the old hundred thieves solo lehner's fake audience alito. Get like their chance in earnest after popping in and out Like what what are the. What are those dogs Prairie dogs out they had their little elsie asa popping up poking their heads out. Hey we're here so well. We're moving around the You know import restrictions for the deep got a couple of games. Lcs kademi say who's playing whack-a-mole owners like down back now with like their permanent starting spots. They get their chance in earnest they. They're getting time on on their to to really develop synergies and improve with the team and they're performing well and it's it's You know. Dr doc obviously has has very log in Controversial story as far as internal stuff with the teams and relationships with You know players and coaches and all that and I i just think this this squad has a lot of personality and story built into it and the fact that they have won so many games and got the upset over. Tsm is is one of the hottest stories. I'm loving it. I would say five. Mcdonald's can't win all right. So i dig sauce. I think a big story for for everyone They've been a lot of fun. You mentioned t. l. is as being disappointment. I i would echo that. But i'm i'm surprised that you didn't mention seal. G is one of the standouts. For disappointment i mean i. I think that everyone is kind of just like quickly. Accepted are seal g. You suck but i feel like we. We had them. In a decent position you know when we did our pre preseason power rankings and yes of course there are still nine games to to play in the split But i think a lot of people that i had talked to had had the feeling that seal g could come out of the gate. Pretty hot right. it's like okay. Got the team with all his veterans. This prepo belt being swapped out and everything of course and pre brock's having the visa issues and whatnot. So there are some confounding factors. But i think a lot of people felt like. Hey you know. Turtles pretty solid things. Things may be looking out. Maybe they'll pick a bunch of wins early and then they'll they'll finish. Maybe like six to eight th range or something But maybe they could squeak at a playoffs and they have just been so bad in in the mid and late game and has been shocking. It's also like. I think it changed me a little bit after this week Becoming into this week. I was looking at some of the early game stats and they were like doing pretty well. They were v. i think as far as as far as early game stats went as far as goal. Difference and fifteen and some of the earliest asked. They've really good first rate for nine. Let's but they just lose every game after that and it's it's kinda surprising so if feels like there are some things working for them but they're so abysmal. As far as their laking mid game decision making in shock collar that even with good comps and gold leads. They seem to just never be able to win a game. Yeah i mean we had them in decent positionings Before the season started due to the players that they did sign yes they also ran into these issues and so they part of it is that they didn't get to start with these players But i mean we even had people in story meeting saying Like you're wrong. Seal go to start out real hot out of the gate with you. Know all these veterans and the intact all this coming out But i think part of the reason everyone is so quick as soon as it fell apart to be ready to be like never mind expected that that's five zero d because that is that is a story this brand around club because of so many of these previous years turning in this way and so when you have games that are starting out so good for them and getting these gold leads in multiple multiple ways. Not just for You know vicki level ones. That happened to work out. And then they they throw around these objectives or don't have great setup or are have poor matt movements later on or whatever reason started dropping these games. Everyone's like okay. You're not gonna fool me again. Because i've been fed for a long time. I know to expect the counter logic. I just think that it is it is both it is both funny but also kinda sad that that has happened again because i really do feel for as much as they keep on saying. Oh yeah we don't wanna have excuses with all these issues and stuff like that You know that is. It is a big hamper Heads i this is just feels rough. 'cause it's it's like the character at the I don't want to go back to the band. Never mind over plan but yeah exactly they. They're always getting kicked down there at the bottom. Can't catch say. I see them as as team rocket they always have a little victory early on in the episode. They get to somehow but you always know she's going to get away. There's just ever going get you. That's the winds. Always gonna find. Its way out of their grasp. We're gonna go blasting off again you know. That's that's the i'm with you on the somewhat higher them early. I didn't feel bad when. I drafted seal bottling. Initially when i saw the roster for fantasy okay well. I don't think he's going to be a great team but this sounds like some decent value or middle fourth and fifth pick and you've seen some of the bright spots in why people were. I don't want to say hype on them but at least like sodom as a middling team when you see these early games been has actually look decent the last week and a half on his own game as well for the most part like he's he's been fine. You know that they are than this. You know this is ridiculous. I'm getting ripped off. Why are they one eight that this is not right. Okay and then going back through all the games you know. There's this moment there's that moment there's all these different things that have happened. And kind of the most frustrating thing to me i think is that because they invested so much in veteran talent this time around part of the reason why people are like okay. This is for sure you know a good baseline. They're they're gonna be middle of the pack. This season was a lot due to. Hey they do. Have all these veterans of so much game experience. And it's kind of crazy that a lot of the downfall has been around You know some of the later game calls The setup for objectives but also You know deciding between two and pulling off some poor timings. The communication seems to be one of the biggest things that's lacking that definitely can also be attributed to moving in and out players. It's it's tough though because the communication shock calling you know like just being Composed those are things that you associate with veterans right. So it's like yeah exactly. It's just it's just weird. It's like they have the exact problems they wouldn't think they would have right. You know and golden guardians who is like the most green team you expect to have all these problems. You expect to be more of a dumpster fire in the late game. They're they're the ones that are actually having more wins than z. So i definitely think it's. It's really pretty depressing for for a sealed in for their fans because now this is a team that i was already frustrated with because of how they built their roster. Because i felt like they were using the old wave of just like going to the most known quantities like pick up the the brands that you know instead of actually you know taking a swing at player development and it felt like that had been pretty big change in in the league and how some teams billing rosters this year but they didn't really latch onto that and not only did they not latch onto that. But they're doing worse on teams. That did so it feels like twice as bad because they probably could have saved a lot of money getting rookies and been doing the same as they are now but with maybe more bright prospects of future so Sealed definitely down in the dumps. One team that. I think isn't a surprise. That is you know positive We didn't really talk about much. Last week was caught night. Right cod nine up at the top of the table. Yes they are are coming off a loss but sitting at seven and two in a number one overall they feel like a team that has already did well and lock in to be fair But they felt like they did a big jump for it out of the gate. Wealthy l. was kinda slowing down and some of these teams were having some troubles. Csm was still having struggles especially in those early weeks. See nine has looked really good and a question. I i kinda wanna pose to you guys is how do you think fudge has developed. How are you feeling about him halfway through this split now right you know four thinking okay. You're you're a title contender. Will he be a liability going forward going into playoffs going into potentially you know them masai showdown in msi and all that stuff. I think fudge has been good. I think i said this. I think right after the walking tours like i don't think he's as bad as he looks here because he plays some far right at like back to back investor five earlier on the season than ever seen before with less time to level up going up against two of the most veteran players but some of the best top leaders in the world honestly of course him look bad would be expected and i think people kinda went too far until like. Oh my god look at him. Losing these matchups in a best of five we'll getting targeted so now things have even a little bit more the other way. I think he's improved. But i think somebody's is just a natural state from not having to play far and in some day ten games in a row so yeah i think part of it is just that for sure. He has improved. He his lane control. I think is one thing that i've seen Dramatically improved from some of the early games and it. They have switched their strategies to him a lot more You know playing like groggy absorb topside and not trying to play around that. So i would say yes he. He definitely has improved and stabilized really well for cloud nine. But if you're talking about liability as far as this cloud nine roster was built to win. It is built to win north america. It is built to win international. Play as well. You also need these options of able to go back to what they opened. Some of the games in the split with of playing camille. Jack's matchups and playing top carries and playing counter picks on top side and focusing up around the topside because you know blabber did it when they were against ignite teepee multiple times in the opponent team. Did not actually play. Well around topside. Which which made it look a lot better for them But i think that's definitely going to be the next hurdle the next checkpoint four him i i do think he's been on a good and steady Pathway for improvement though for the team is just that this team is up there with you know we have the team. Liquid cloud nine ranks. You know even hundred. I think in there now if they built a win So you are always looking at. How are they gonna compare against the best. Yeah i think fudge has earned his spot in the power rangers. he's not not a liability and that's about the team. Everyone's so good across the board. You know vulcan then so he's a power range of lis lis popular fan bill ranger. He's billy the blue ranger interest. Blew up later. He was the nerd. What does it call any transformers. It mega sort or something mega source the combination. Yeah yeah exactly right. So he's like he's like maybe like the something. Yeah he's part of the vegas parties have a one legs or he's in there. He's part of it but he's just like he's like the foot you know you know is dominant foot. It's the back foot right. I'm playing kickball. I'm kicking with my other foot. The other yeah. Exactly your kicking foot or so the fudge food to stand on you know he's got be that tank it's gonna be that stable ground. This guy's Stuff shows can we ruined. Poke them on. We've got a ranger sam. For next week we need to sprout. I think we need to keep it going into your system now. We'll have a different theme. One here coming up all the six and three teams. We got hundred. Tsm dig all sitting around there. How are you guys feeling about you. Know there's a lot of kind of feeling. I think in the community. Now hundred have regressed a little bit that they may be getting solved a bed or not as good as people originally thought. There's also obviously people on dig. Nas are kind of expecting the other shoe to fall and them to start losing games like where you guys standing with them. How do you feel about. Gsm for one hundred thieves. The starting there. I don't think there's any huge regression. I think that there is always You know leeway built into a lot of these games and they came away with winds in quite a few games where they screwed up big early on people. Look back at the record and they're like oh man you know they they want all these games. They've been winning every single game now they're regressing where they started dropping some and they're focusing really hard on the actual match result rather than the match itself. There was an inherent risk all along in these. These games and it was fun to watch. It was really exciting. And i love it. But even their coach tony was to keep the on saying like i feel like we could beat any team but we could also lose to any team and and you see in some of you know. Some of the plays that come out. I really liked that. They still retain this very focused direction that they want to take their game. They know themselves. They want to push limits. They want to take risks. They wanna do tower dives. They want to You know get more out of every objective trade without giving much back to their opponents. And so i think it's a good path for them to be on. I don't think it's a huge regression. I think we're just seeing some of the other side of of The percentage place actually the the the most recent loss was definitely also a playing a bit worse so so there is that there is always going to be some variants in stage. Play though yeah i wouldn't. I was cool on them a little bit. If i'm being honest though like i think other teams in the league have improved a little bit from lock in like. Tsm right now is obviously not the tsn from before digs obviously better as well. Some some of the other teams in the league have stepped up So it's it's not even necessarily like hundred got worse. But i haven't seen them continue to get better. It feels like in recent weeks got to keep waiting nine nine has gotten better for shirttails regressed but like hundred just seems to be still one of the best teams in the league for sure but i haven't seen them really do anything new and like you said like their place. I i liked it there so proactive to replace some of them don't work out and then they do sit around and games. They don't like make big game losing place that like blow the game up a thirty minute law so i think even argue that a bit of a positive for them. Maybe but i i haven't seen the individual dominance that i've seen from some of the teams even someday has taken a bit of a backseat compared to how it was during the tournament and the coordinated dives have not been as clean either. Yeah that that is one of the things that really stands out to me. And to kobe's point there is very on these place right when you're going for a dives not every dive can be perfect. There is inherent risk associated with it. But it did feel like in locking in the early weeks that they were just able to pull it off like that every single time now. They're having more of them turned around on them now. They're having feels like less opportunities to get that setup to do it because think teams are always expecting it and are trying to craft their game. Plans somewhat around that I think hundred a really good team you know as far as their midseason form. Fbi had interviewed this weekend. I think it was. Fbi saying that. They're the best team in the league and he feels that the best team league. I'm not buying what he's selling for that just yet I i think that they are. You know a top three top four team right now and could they continue to make that improvement and have that grow throughout the second half deadly. I think there'll be a championship contender. Potentially but right. Now i do feel like they. They have taken a little bit of a step back in my power rankings compared to how they looked in lock and just because like you said other teams are improving. It hasn't felt like they have as much Speaking of some of the teams that are improving i think. Gsm feels like they're finally getting their together a bit. They are looking Quite a bit better yes. They had their loss. I'm trying to remember who that loss was that they are actually coming off of. But wasn't the dig one was it it was. That's what i'm thinking. If i can pull the history. Yeah it was was the did game which which honestly that. That game was kind of not a great one because it felt like they were just forcing things that they really didn't need to you know opinion. They had a really really good scaling copy at the topic. Quirky like have the ability. I feel like just win a game with almost as that combo alone. Just play it slow. And they're playing a pretty even game whether then it felt like they. They were pressured. You know when at least like looking at it from the specter point of view. It's so easy. 'cause usually the goal you're like the gold is closed. Everything's feeling pretty good. But maybe they felt like they are on the back foot so had to force it baron and stuff but i think that was just a bit of a bad game read and they kinda misunderstood the position that they were in 'cause they could play that game slow and probably just one late for sure But dsm still prior to. That was a six game winning streak right and overall it feels like they have found their footing. Much better sort are individually. Look so much better and is also working with the team much better and i think the incorporation of him into into their squad is so important that was their big bet for the offseason is getting this superstar support and bringing him and he's supposed to dominate the legal core dj. So i think it is really really key. That not only are they getting these winds. But he's been a huge part of them right. I think it was the saturday game. Where he wro- mid got kill. Mid then immediately basis goes top gets kill top like he was a large part of a lot of their wins. And i think that spells pretty good things for them. Yeah there are some specific things that you can easily point to with the balance that. Dsm kind of have brought to their team. Where a lot of their early losses were You know a lot of misplace early on where they were making some super rushed calls and some soup arrest individual place. I even just minimal trades that who was going for but who needs specifically. They clearly made a directional change within the team to say. Hey you are going to play more defensive minded a lot of time it is going to be weak side he's coordinating. He's teepees well with them. He's not taking as many of those risks. Plus another key thing alongside that is power of evil using his teleport so frequently for the team. I i wanted to put up a counter And i didn't go through all of the games but he had Six of his of his early teleport's across multiple of their games to cover four teammates. Lotta time as it is top side when people are attacking honey But it was it was also four bottom side a lot of of using his teleport fourteen rather than to get back to lane. And that's changing the whole course of these games because clearly decided we are going to counter some of the first moves that our opponents make instead of extending ourselves for for a lot of our place that are not working right now and it started with that big sweep You know the the easier game on bottom side but it kept on going. There are so many plays side lanes. He's getting there even later in the game I just think that. Gsm started covering a lot better than they had been before. And i think a matches a lot of the identity you would expect from. Tsn based off some of the players like being a lake in control major player for the most part like slowing the pace of the game down looking to negate some of the other teams place to then out scale or whether to do control other things like that. I think they simplify their drafts. You know who needs just blind. Pick duty now for the most part he had it. I figured if he got in the game but he had been four in a row prior to that. I believe in five of the eight games. He was blind picks. Feels like he's on duty of like. Yeah we know you have some crazy stuff but who is actually player despite what people kind of have the perception of him being this crazy counterpane guy who wants to game played around him for minor. Interesting actually is decent about playing with team so overall i think simplified their game plan. They're going kinda later than some of the teams like hundred thieves are trying to do. But it's working for them and their personnel. So i like it feels like a bit of a beard approach i can. I can see the coaching guiding hand. Saying no i don't i don't go. It does feel like someone who is just like calm down after some of the some of the early loggers is year. Just wait twenty five minutes so funny you say that. Is that a good thing or a bad thing right if we just get the same. Tm that you've had so many years. It's like disease ben spell trouble for international. Play when you're talking about. They're playing calm. They're playing a slow coach. They're going there real quick. I would say they were all they were in trouble and need you need to say. Have this calm down reset moment. I still would. I definitely agree on. I can see where you're going. We're like okay. Now that you reset. It's basically a launching off. Point stabilized back out there. I was gonna throw on sort like that but this guy is still going ham like he's still sorts making plays on the pantheon and the rail and stuff like. I don't think i've seen them just like totally go af k. Farm for twenty five minutes. They're still making place so i'm not. I'm not too worried about like a totally reactive. Play style right now. We've touched on a little bit. But what do you think is wrong with t. l. You know two teams. That definitely agreed. Next point g. two teams. That were really hot in the lock in right of course egypt and do as well in the knockout stage but there are undefeated in their group to certain point one game. Obviously one lock in both. These teams are sitting at five and four middle of the pack. Was going on bad time to ask me. I was drinking water. Well could have been kobe. Kobe is like now. I'm re is reading something. I'm not looking at The seattle you're drinking water issues are that they're bad. No i think they peaked a little bit too early. Maybe i think sometimes like training and these kinds of things. I don't know exactly what. The regimen was tactical said. He's been feeling a little burned out and they did win. Lock and torment and certainly i agree. It's not good. But that's what he had an interview it He thinks that's why he's not quite playing as well. I can see a world. Where did they tried really hard for locking or something a bit of an emotional rollercoaster downturn of like a. We did it and then you're in the week one kind of feeling so i can see a little hangover. Maybe but i. I think the bottling has not been playing. They were hard dumpstering everything. In walking tournament yeah far was leading the top leaders and solar kills per game. Bottling had been getting killed nearly every single game and they were naturally winning so hard that i think that they kind of just do that like show up two lanes and dive because we already have the wave built because we already chunk them out with better trades and we already have priority and the other lanes to rome for this dive. And i don't think that's all going quite smoothly and they have struggled to make those plays happen once the individual whether it's they dropped off to the teams caught up you know on the other side of it i would say i am happy that they they did not reactively off of just The the slight dip go. Okay we are also going to revert and stabilize end. just cover. They stayed true on the same course of constantly pushing the tempo of the game constantly looking to be the ones dictating. What objective is coming up next. Jay still even after he did have a couple of of poor performances And as the leader of the team Still constantly looking for these and pushing the game state forward for this squad and we saw them immediately bounced back. They had their you know match of the week highlight versus cloud nine. Guess what even though team liquid Were on a downslide. They were still extremely proactive They kept out fiery On Off it wait. What was his pick. It was rejected. Yeah see they kept on lane dominance. did die a single time. They they push lanes. They have core. Jj initiating for them. They did not let up on that game. It was one of the quicker games that we've had in the so I think that yes. The tactical has come out himself and said hey. I am struggling right now. i got burnt out We we have been working on internally and And they did have some some poor performances in a couple of their games but doesn't feel like they've had any big crisis so worried. I think they're going to bounce back strong. I mean the other thing is even just as they're the best early game team the league by lot right. It's like they have an average goal difference of like over fifteen hundred ahead Second bassin leagues under one k. So like more than fifty percent above in that if the fastest time in the league so in their wins that pretty dominant have good early games. So i think they're gonna thinks the other. I'm honestly more concerned now that i heard that burnout thing though actually hadn't seen that interview to me that that's kind of worrying. Honestly were week three in spring lawley. Sports has a year rough year as far as like it is grind. Let's be honest these players grind. They play a lot if you're on a bad team. It's actually kind of cushy like you get a lot of time off to be honest. Play offs couple monster. Msi exactly you don't make playoffs. Then you have a huge gap between you know the regular season in the summer and then huge gap after summer when you don't get But if you are a top team and you're going to the finals you're going to msi you're going to world you're going all stars going all these things you have a long year ahead. You right like he's got a play till november. We just started. We just started six weeks ago. And he's basically got until november to get a break like to get a serious break so if you're already feeling burnt out this early I hope that they can make some serious adjustments. Because he's a very young player. And usually i would say a lot less common With you know the guys who are really fresh league can really excited about it. And and generally they're more known as the grinders and it's often the veterans who have to like play some some less games not a rule but it but it is more common that way so hopefully they can figure that out because that makes me a little bit worried for tactical and how. He's going to be feeling come. Msi come summer come worlds. I definitely Recommend you watch the interview because he they go in depth about it. He talks about out of coaching. Staff is is is working on it already with him You know he's doing some stuff. Outside of league access league was literally the only thing that he ever did Even though yeah. He is pretty young He has been grinding away for a long time to get to where he is now. so I think it's good that it is on their radar. They have notable people working on it and helping helping him with it. Or how about edgy. Good bad we thinking good. There's no way that a bad is a possible answer here For for g. Consider what what you kinda expected from this team. And their performance. Thus far. I think it has to be good because as much fun as it was to laugh at me about zook as back to back tyler dives ins. I think that he actually has been very strong for this team It's statistically not even an argument from his previous year last year How much better. It has been for him but also the rest of the team. I think impact is such a good for this putting impact with to do gay and we don't even have you know access to their calms just from knowing those two people knowing those two players it does feel like it should help out and balancing a lot every team mate. I've ever talked to who's played with impact talks about how much he adds to their macro to their shot calling How good he is communicating from the top lane which is very important for your soul. Lehner's especially later on and he's already shown it in these games. You know just this last weekend. The the super mimi Tilt proof type of game from him where he gets camped and he's apologizing afterwards Sorry i got camp guys died to that geic. You know. I i should be able to get out of these situations and still performs the team fights. I just think that this is definitely one of one of the heart warming stories. I think because it also does have some of the guys like got benched Definitely got super hard flamed before even coming in because he had that small stint that that people just stick in their minds. You know first impressions really do last a long time in mean a lot And i think that he he has also been performing. Well so i give it a thumbs up I guess i'll be scrutinized here. 'cause like i don't disagree with any said i think on an eyeball test level like i've been more impressed by them than their record has shown like oh definitely people thought he was gonna come in and just be this safe katie player. He's actually been pretty good. And like ignores ben. Ben you know the level you would've expected in hope coming from fly question impacts. You could argue. It'll be better and they're five and four so like on the one hand yes. I agree that a lot of the players stories feel a lot better than even the teams story a little bit but place them. I think powering wise around v six ish their fifth sixth ishr now tie with team liquid there where we honestly expected even if it looks a little bit better so i i. I can't see them. Negative definitely not negative. Not on the negative side. But i just don't know like on the positive side in the middle man i love. I love this turtle mark struggle. We're trying to have possible positive. Takes because this is what i focus so much on his how the beyond game scores. How of how games. Look a definitely definitely fair. Mark tower right now on e. g. man. This look so much better than i thought. And they're five and four. And i'm not sure that they finished much better than ten innate. Either you know like maybe they finished eleven seven or something like it's just so it doesn't feel like a huge success for players. It's like preseason expectations versus now is yeah okay. That's that's about where it was. But the reason why i feel a little bit more. Negative amar side is that i got really excited at the start of locking. I was like damage your way better than i thought. Right like. you're you're actually super positive. This is sick and impacts. You know bus connecting and slamming. Everyone acting back to back back to back and their expectations better. They got us excited. Like oh gee okay like what. You're sellin. I'm like it and then it was kinda just back to what i was expecting. Which is why it feels a little bit disappointing to me. It's it's not zest or by any means but it was cool to see impact playing so dominant right And i do feel like everyone's like oh it. Actually it's actually not a place i'll change. It was just rejected and then rejected has been perma band against him. All spring split and impact is just look like impact. And that's not bad by any means. He's a great player player. he doesn't play. You know generally like a lot of lane pressure stuff. Yes he did. Have that one game as you say where it was getting camp and he had some good things happening for him But i do feel like in an era where we're getting more counter picks and whatnot top line and we started to see jack coming out a lot. Is this answered camille. We're getting like ignite camille and we're getting all these more aggressive things. He does feel like he is a step behind As far as the medicos you may impact into camille. That i'll give a shit about. Jack's forget but the problem is and will want be nine. The problem is he's he's getting people are blind picking stuff into him and it's becoming that situation before when gp was super meta and you just knew he impact didn't have an answer so people blind pig against seattle and he would just pick a tank and self counter and it feels like. We're getting back to that now. Which which is the the thing that feels a little bit a little bit dicey where i'm like. Okay well how high is your ceiling. Then because if you're just gonna blind ignore with the rally up and stuff because you don't have any other exits like that feels a little bit bad. I think that he plays really well on the champs he does have but i just don't think he's ever to move outside of that wheels. I will say another thing adding to my happiness and positive take for. This team is listening to the players. interviews afterwards where impact actually addressed this specifically saying that this team this e. g. team trust him more than team liquid and and they are willing to play and pick for him For what he prefers. Now i would have liked the house. They yeah i would have liked it more if he actually had slammed in a rally. Pick your and we had. We played i. I still. I've taken on good faith. Okay freak was like he said this and then he doesn't pick it. I'm saying he's lying. He's he's not doing that at all. Going free freak has a tendency to go with the bad faith arguments. Maybe i'll go but it's nice if they trust them but he's got a he's got a show. Okay great they trust you then show that you can do it. I don't trust you keep tries to convince me. Moving onto to three of the onto much immortals fly quest golden guardians a currently in the bottom half the league kind of expected Is there anything about any of the three jump out to you like overall. I'm relatively happy with them. Even though they're not winning records like we talked a long time about g so moral psychological So i would say you know. Couple of hits reme- golden guardians. When i think about it. I'm actually more happy with how they did than i expected. I would not have been mind blown if they didn't win. A game this year or at least the split actually wouldn't have been that shocked with people strategically collegiate are there. Some glaring arison their gameplay. Yes surprise surprise you. Two guys that came straight from collegiate were playing against you know bob and his and his bud tim and now they're playing against someday al farhi right. It's like okay different. His name's barney there. You go true so you know it just feels like it's such an enormous step up from the competition that they had and you can see how that is is being punished right. Iconic i think is extremely passive. He doesn't seem to adapt his play style based on the draft. Which i think is is pretty huge problem. I think the pantheon game was a great example of that. Where it's like. You did all this cleverer counter picking you flex picks your pantheon top with your last bit grass to make that support and then you get you know this matchup into camille where you're gonna gain nonstop and then you're jungle ever came top single time the whole game and you've been useless And so like that was his point for my connex like okay. Well you didn't even really know what your wing condition was. You didn't change the game plan at all. You're just gonna farm and hope that you do well a game and like he's pretty good at that. He's pretty good farming in tv fighting but like you need to be able to do more than just one thing. Especially if you're drafting for something else. I mean not. Niles has gained law critcism. But i mean niles is a huge weakness for his team right like his leaning. Isn't very good and it feels like he plays. This sounds like worse than i mean it but it feels like he plays. How how i do. And how a lot of people doing solo queue where it's just like you just play though the jungle it doesn't exist right and you you play you play for the one purely and when you watch the absolute best hop leaners. They are so good at knowing where the jungle could be knowing when to back off knowing when they're safe when they have to base at timings with the wave in a bad spot like they just understand this at a much higher level and that to me is one of the biggest differences between the good solid players and the great Competitive top liners is such an understanding of that. Because you wash them. These guys always impresses me. The most is like al faris or someday impact or these guys like their wave will be in this awkward spot not not do it to any of their own fault but because of pressure because that's happening the map gets split in half or whatever and i'm like oh man you're so screwed and then you look ten minutes online and they still have like eight or nine or ten per minute right like they didn't even really get behind off of it. They somehow managed to stay relevant while being pressured constantly. Not dining act. So i think that's the now's clue needs to work on. You know even even the grabs game where like he tried to stay around and reset the wave when liquor should just teed back in there was like any own. There's just no chance he was ever going to be able to do. He got way. Too crazy So hope hopefully we'll see the development week over week The fact that they actually did pick up two wins. I think is pretty positive for golden guardians I'm more down on them. I expected actually more out of like west I thought that they were going to be more sitting. You know up with like the g. kind kinda style grouping. Yeah i I i think that licorice has had some some standout moments for this team. But i definitely. I don't know i guess. With of the success of some of the other developmental rosters at different moments. I was expecting more explosive moments. Like that. from fly quest as well i think jose diaz has also had some Good highlight moments but I guess i had to extend my my allotted time for for development roster for this one As far as you know the ramp up time for them. I'm still pulling for them and hoping that we You know see those. Those improvements realized on stage but it does feel like it is taking a little bit longer than expected to circle back to building endurance. really quickly. i was gonna say that a lotta times. People watch their games and their winning and they get really critical about having closing the game out like with goal ablaze. All of in particular being really slow about you know go interesting to. Yeah but at the same time. Like i think people need to remember that this is like a super developmental rosser and so to your point. They still closed that game out and didn't throw it away. When we've seen teams like cg throw away games that were arguably as winning a position. You know like. I don't fault them too hard for it. And it's like overall a positive sign. And i think just need to remind people chill out a little bit. When the the new player who's an academy player playing with collegiate players doesn't make the optimal play like i'm okay with it even if it is a little painful in the moment. We're not holding the team liquid standard and fly quest totally agree one and more out of out of liquor squad. But i do like the mid leaners for them in a mortals. I think insanity in an excuse me pal. Fox both looked pretty good. So i'm definitely feeling feeling good about a lot of these teams actually in the players on them i i think one thing that could actually see some pretty big gains for fly. Quest is just the other players on the team like learning how to enable liquorice if that makes sense because one thing i did really notice it and i'm not trying to say he's perfect. He's definitely had some rough games to That's not really the point. But just when i have seen him in winning situations The gangplank game that he played really stood out to me where he they did. Get them ahead us integrate spot and it just felt like they weren't really sure how how to push that forward and i don't know if that's him to ask him for them just being a losing situation but it's like there's not. They're not getting words out for him to split push they're not actually you know. Shadowing him with their juggler to to defend him on this bush to be able to enable them to extend their lead. And that's i things like west has struggled with is actually even when they get themselves into a pretty good spot being able to extend that advantage and knowing how best to do that right if you have a strong player on your team how are you going to enable them to extend that lead instead of just having it stagnate and i think there have been a couple of examples. Have like less have got at least like one. Strong member But aren't really playing around that member to to help enable them to carry the game all right. Well let's jump into a quick anchor question here as we are bumping up against our meeting time in the afternoon because we have had some technical difficulties this morning so anchor question number one right off the bat adam. He's got a question about mundo possible. Rework here how to make him viable for pro onstage with getting a rework. How could riot balance him. Missile at his kid identity stays the same with windows goes where he pleases no artsy but make him a viable pick for the pro stage. Thanks guys to me that the problem with muncy has always been you know in from workout play tests and with the designers and stuff in the past. I just think that characters are so. Reliant on healing for their tankinis are inherently hard to balance. Because it almost just like depended upon your opponents not knowing how to build to be successful and with with you'll cut being so prevalent in the game right now. I just don't think that mundo in its current state would be effective so to me. The answer is how do you actually balance him and keep his identity. I don't think you can keep the kid identity. The exact same i think. He has to become less reliant on on healing to be tanking and and get that elsewhere. Still have the guy throwing levers and abbas have has abilities be similar but maybe make the the ultimate more about the move speed more about you know taking us or something Because i just think that when you have a character. That's heavily reliant on healing to make him it's so easy to counter that every every every bruiser in the game just like russia's executioners against you in lane and then in five five there's now sixty percent he'll cut items that are gonna destroy you so they have to shift is bauer elsewhere. I mean With a healing not not being a unique part of his game anymore with healing being so prevalent across every other champion in every room and it can be basically Any item even now with the with the power of gorge drinker I definitely agree on the healing point as far as the rest of the kit. I also think that a tank If he is going to remain a tank and he's not pushed into like some sort of health. Dps may champion a tank without hard see c like actual stun or actual snares not. Just slow and without a dash is really hard to to make fun. If you're just if you're just going off the theme of. I can go where i please. That is that just doesn't sound very fun or interactive to me Because you can stack them with tenacity and you can make them hard to take down. But i think there does need to be some other factor added to the kit You know some sort of mobility more mobility. Maybe if you don't want to go the route And turn him into like. There's so many other tanks jets maybe maybe mobility and and that is the way to go. Put unstoppable on a on an actual non ultimate. Cooldown is his e goes on stoppable figure from the orange or not. Has an unstoppable on a non pulled out but then you go like two feet lawyer through no no you press it and you go unstoppable for four seconds and you just run wherever the hell you want. I don't kiss. I'm the reason the mundo got in there before was because he was so hard to kill right. Like he'll cut was willis common and he was just so absurdly tankeea. That you could get away without actually having super super era high amounts of c. c. Because he has he is a really easy laying face like you can just farm cleavers pretty much forever. There's like very few match ups that really really punish him because of that You know it's it's not that bad to farm but he needs to be a super tank to function if you're not gonna see or have a pretty high. Gps actually be able to threaten going back. Line Because of the don't have enough utility to get in there. But i like moon to have letterman longtime. Because i think he's terrible now so hopefully that rework is Is going to bring some new life to be cold scenic. Better all right. That's going to wrap it up for us now. Thank you again for tuning in Thank you to honda for making this episode possible. Remember that you can check us out on. Spotify apple youtube The new youtube channel by the way dot com slash l. c. s. And you can also send us in your questions on twitter using the hashtag. The dive lull or. Send us your voice messages on your anchor dot. Fm page at just again next week five am on tuesday.

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Raz radiates Playoffs energy: What's up with the locked bracket? Who DESERVES MVP?! | HLL 183

Hotline League

1:54:25 hr | Last month

Raz radiates Playoffs energy: What's up with the locked bracket? Who DESERVES MVP?! | HLL 183

"Agree it's highly episode. What eighty three. I'm joined by three people to people. I can't even count. It's because i said one eighty three. My mind went to three. I'm having a month in a monday. Monday's sack what's very exciting. Is i found out. Just moments ago Because i've got jury duty this week. And i don't have to report in tomorrow and while i believe in doing my civic duty it would have required us. Moving rift reaction show around. If i had to do that in that would have been a very inconvenient for some people so a criminal is gonna be on the list because of you. I don't know if that's hub jury duty where you're sipping during duty. No you don't have to report so what you do is you. Have you ever gotten it before work. I got a bunch of times but it was in massachusetts. I've never done california jury duty. Yes so this you like go there like keep your entire week free and then check at seven o'clock the night before and will let you know if you have to show up so all week long i have to like i'm in this weird limbo state and then i find out anyway. This highline league If you if you weren't familiar and it's brought to you by wear and mountain dew game fuel which i am drinking reality seal g. What little manziel problem with seal eating seal hanging rocks back mark has an animal. That's attacking his seal g hoodie. Show cute though you become such a good kitty he was a really shitty kitty for a little bit. Now he's a good kiddie. Yeah well as is he better than the last time. I interacted with him. Oh much better okay. Because it doesn't look like he is based off what's going on now. This is much better all right anyway. Mark how you've been pretty good. I just came back from the dive. You will see It's an interesting episode. I highly recommend everyone checks it out. it'll be a lot of fun. Nice i plus one. That i was not on it but i saw some things was co. No kobe was not on it. Yeah i was gonna say i know. He was out of town this past week and he came in. I didn't know if you've got any time to be on the show so is it. You guys have. Are you able to save you. Have a guest or if it's just sales sitting there freak freak as is the kind of usual standing. He's okay well the week you were there frequent there or you. Weren't there frequently out. There were two chest. Move on all right. I'm teasing investigative journalists. Okay i'm taking. He's trust in your life mark mark. He's he's content creator not a journalist doesn't have any ethical standards to hold himself up to mark you about how you're doing how you doing. I'm doing good disease a cat off me. I'm doing great what's been going on in your life. I don't know to be honest. what hey razz. How you've been doing welcomed show episode. I try to ask mark. What's been going on in his life and we've done this for a hundred and eighty two episodes on the hundred eighty third. He's taken great offense to it and is rapidly trying to move away from it so every time i'm here i just see a relationship issue between both of you guys as is the case you ever build something together and then you know it's like you're committed to the thing you're only together to see that thing through but you're not actually there's no more love you know. Step away from divorce. Once hotline league is old enough for college and we don't know many more every word of leading everybody does. Yeah we we. Have we been doing it for. I think four years now. I think four. I think we started. This is the longest league show ever made. I don't know if drive is longer the dive. It's been like five. Oh you know what you're right. But the dive cheats. Because this change of of people you know mainly jam for me but yeah true rask. How're you doing well much better. Now that i saw this comment for munster a shoe that says what the fuck mark has lashes on. And i just didn't notice up until this up before the start of the show. I mean i can tell the makeup generally speaking but not the lashes. The muslim noticed the rest of the broadcast. Make home. my goodness. I did not see that. Come into the light. Whole las blue light push rish which which which is man is flying Have very long lashes as well. It's just can't yeah. Well they're not fake. Continue doing well You know doing. I dum well and other work. We came through end of season. Which is fun now. We get to go into all star voting and all these things and i get to make fun of someone's ballot once the they come out you know that's there's always gonna be one person that's like. The auto is the best juggler and you're like where did this. Oh the latin american journalists saw so. I'm i'm waiting for stuff like that. I i. I have not submitted my ballot. Yet marker you will save you some yours. I haven't done it yet. So what's great is and this has happened on previous hotline leagues as well. You callers you. The audience of hotline league. You have the. I'm not saying that like we're going to go based off of what you tell us but you can convince us of certain things. Like so-and-so deserves mvp on so does rookies on deserves the best. They would need to be damned defense to unseat our opinions and judging by the show that i've been on consistently i have not been hearing good opinion. Their defense sometimes advances. The callers are usually pretty good. I usually good dive into the conversation. And then there and then it's the backpedaling with show. But i actually think for everyone's like oh. All the callers are bad. We usually have one or two callers every episode that are like way out there and then everyone who pretends like that's the way most of the are whereas a lot of times people like the criticism people should libraries that. Sometimes these are more. Like luke takes then they are hot but but what else to say. Oh go ahead. Marc fudge interviewer. He said that the mvp voters are not intelligent. I did. I actually did an interview with him about that The expand Yes are you gonna do that were you. Say watch the video instead of just telling us so. We can have a conversation about what the expansion is. What the problem is. I don't remember entirely what he said. I don't want to paraphrase it because i haven't re-watch it yet. Attempt to guess what his his his answer was. Only certain people are unintelligent marketing razz are really smart with their voting. But there's a lot of other questions people people there we go. I think you know what i think. That's exactly what he said. It sounds right to me in my heart. In fact i think. I remember hearing that i was walking down the street. Maybe i was right next to travis apartment and maybe i heard that coming out of the window so i can confirm that get razz. Yeah we always try to sail. What have you been up to and you. You talked mostly about the league stuff. But how are things going with you personally personally. It's fine i. I don't think much of a personal life. A lot of it comes down to go right so it's just like work. Then i stay here and play some games and then i go on twitter and shit talk some playing the world's ends with you neo and also a right after that 'cause i purchased the other game which was Ace attorney Chronicles good capcom is notoriously bad at Localizing games from that series. And so finally. They've opened the door on that one. But i'm still waiting for the perfect prosecutor game so you know it is what it is. I i appreciate one of the things. I think i've said this about oh i need to move the sub thing one of the things. I think i've said previously that. I appreciate about you. Raza's that you're one of the few people. I feel like besides myself. That just plays video games. That are not path of exile world. Warcraft early grind lord competitive. Yeah yeah narrative story though my job. That's my childhood only narrative games. I play like fantasy. Rpg's apparently octo pass traveler and the witcher and that kind of stuff. But i'm talking about like the kind of like weird nintendo shit. Yeah i wanna be same. I aspire to be great about to be very into nintendo shit. Okay anyway now that we've had our fun little discussion in the beginning of the show This is a big episode because We are now officially done with regular season which kind of felt like a bit of a slog to me although it was very exciting but man just Nine slog. It was an exciting so it just like you know now. We're ready to finally see what's going to happen in playoffs and You know what i i think. It is like we had spring and because spring was shortened. It for me if made some split feel very long But we're here at the playoffs time and it's exciting We also have some eliminated team seal gene flake west. I'm sure we can get taken in at least for each of those We we had a reprieve from talking about seal g. But i now know that we'll have to have at least one caller probably to talk about that and i love that call. Let's does do more of those. There's some fun drama down. There's some fun drama that took place With the hundred thieves academy stuff which. I'm sure some will call into either already. Got one lineup for that. Excuse it or say it's okay and we're going to do something a little unconventional i would like to Razan mark have you guys seen little clip that i put out about peter done yet numb resident. Okay i'm gonna play on stream Razz i'm just going to link it to you on my twitter so that you can. I guess you can watch it on the stream. Whatever the budget on the street But i did an interview with peter done where he said something very interesting And i really like it. I feel like it sets up the stakes for playoffs. Maybe you guys will rain down. I say it's a take but we're going to go ahead and play. This clip firm appear done interview that i posted earlier today. You can watch the full one on youtube channel but catching a second. What was interesting. Because i think this you're seeing kind of like a battle. For how should i say for the soul of the lcs and in that these these old traditional teams tau cloud. I'd when you think about them what you think you think about them being super passive scaling teams that like allow the enemy team to to to play into the. I mean how to win today against us in the house the game played. It was when they had a four k. Lead they were still waiting us. I made mistakes. Nine are the exception cloud. I know the team played proactive aggressive style. They're not doing the best right now. But i'm sure that we find by playoffs. And if you play that kind of defensive reactive style and you go internationally you will go zero six groups or you will like you're just gonna look like you can play to scale as long as you are better individually than the opponent. You're against and so so for me. The question is is the region as a whole good enough where teams playing aggressive league of legends can win and go and go and represent an america north america in international tournaments and have a shot against these top teams. We're just going to send three teams at wants to get into the game and have them it to the chinese in the korean teams When they go to when they go to shock. I mean that that that's reality of where we are right now so for me. I'm sure that people think about these. These strong teams these teams and teo see nine pm half that forever but it's up to us to show that there are other ways to play the game and there are other ways to win and i hope that we can do it But i think that even if we even no matter what happens. I hope that teo antezana combine can learn from what we're doing on the side. It is possible to play that different style. And they don't they don't learn those lessons if they go and we don't. It's going to be the same as it is every single year but i think well equipped to handle international competition right now provided we do okay lane phase to tell you can never judge them face issues but the back within the game i think. I think we're pretty happy with where we all right. Peter okay so I really like his that as like a conversation starter. I'm not saying. I necessarily agree with it or disagree but i wanted to have a brief conversation about it here and i'm hoping because because one of the things is like narrative of this really cool situation. I maybe i don't want to steal the lic old guard versus new guard or new old kings new kings type thing but it. I almost kind of feel like peter's making fitting a stake in the ground kind of like as a campaign thing where he's like. Listen cheer e. Yeah yeah she cheer for eg peter done the bernie sanders of the nation. should be careful Lot of people in our audience have differing opinions there. But he regardless he. He's like pushing back against the establishment and is trying to get People to care about eg and and why he thinks they are the better candidate to go now obviously is not a voting things we all vote for which teams are going to world's every year but i think it's cool because i like the stakes. He's laying out there for the teams as we had in the playoffs. And why people might need or maybe should want to see hundred t and g go through instead of tlc nine or tsm. He gave some credit nine. I think for for perhaps playing a little bit more proactively. But i'm kind of curious from both of you and maybe hopefully somebody in the chat right now is furiously typing some sort of take about why. He's either right or wrong or something. I'm curious marcon and razz What your take is on what peter said. I should iras. Yeah go for it. I think it's something that myself in a lot of people have felt for awhile about. Na teams You know being these defensive teams who mostly just want to mark holding headphones off listening i. I'm sorry i hear music star some. i'll go vessel. I lose my but like yeah. I think there's been times but to you. In north america was able to largely not play super proactively. An kinda just skill. Check the other teams and win through that Not like they were totally bad. I don't wanna just like shit on every champion for but i think A lot of their stuff was reactive punishing mistakes. And you can't do that at the highest level start going up against the best teams in the world and that's why they start to struggle more even sometimes teams that i would say seems proactive in north america. Whether it's the pressure of the moment or the other teams whatever it is. They end up being less proactive This reminds the video we have on the channel of you ranting last year about the the the what was it the tower dive or something. Like that where you're just frustrated that one. Tsm two thousand sixteen in summer was actually likes super proactive. Think game here. I think it's twenty sixteen. They were super proactive in na. They will always dive by and play around double if newest sick but then like when they went to worlds they just seem to not be able to get the priority that they're used to getting in north america to just go off twenty four seven and they didn't really have many other options and so like a team like eeg who is more down to just fight. Shit will never not do anything. I don't think there's a world where like i was like. Oh man because ease losing leaning faces. Which peter don't even talked about. They're a little bit that they're suddenly knocking to make place. I think that they still will. His point is more just like hey we might get slammed in lane. It'll make us look a lot worse than than our actual play style issues really quickly before we throw the razz. I'm curious mark. Do you think hundred t also belongs in this category. I'm not. I think that they're different. It feels weird. Because i feel like hundred. Thieves have played a couple of different places over the course of this year and in the last couple of weeks i've looked their worst and so it makes me a little hesitant to be like what is if we send hundred thieves. Am i worried that they're all gonna stand there lanes and not doing and lose like maybe actually i would be a little concerned about that right razz. What do you think about what peter said. And what mark said. I guess i mean i agree with them Early side with the peter on the sentiment of playing to passively right. I think you need to have points within your draft that you can actually fight and play around early like and i think one point that he didn't mention that i don't think the problem is like there was the game that he addresses Team liquid in which. They had like a four k. Go lead in. They didn't they just played slow and choke the enemy out. And i think that's one thing to point out like ldl teams. If they're if they're behind they will find angles scraps. Like you still have to be ready to fight or at least like Take fights if they forced you on this issue on something like that. Something that we're probably going to have to talk about when world comes about That if you if a team has a lead they need to be able to actually do something with it Push and meeting the more aggressively but that being said Actually so i'm not too concerned about hundred thieves on on that bark on that mark. I actually think that a hundred are. What's it called in the same frame of mind when it comes to cloud nine and you will genius. I think they're in aggressive team. They tried out a lotta shit during the season. But i just think naturally. There're team that wants to play A lot more loose. That's i think they're a worse at that cloud nine. I think my biggest issue with hundred thieves is that It's been a more rounded decision making If things go bad in a one hundred these game it's almost like they're guaranteed to go worse because they don't know when to cut their losses and then just play from behind they'll just double down and it'll get worse they'll try and save each other off it and they'll die and it's like okay. This could have just been one loss camp but it just turned into a larger fight. Now you've lost even harder that's like literally my biggest thing is just decision-making when things don't go their way initially like that. I've said that at the beginning of the split and the like it literally happened in their. Gsm game So i don't wanna go in to in depth until i'm like until someone else comes up with a take on that one earned the days but like So like i. I think if the league is one by t. l. and tsm yes that is that would that'd be problematic. But not even that bad as they were in the past like. They're they're literally not the same. Gsm whatsoever in terms of playing slow like sort will hard for fights whom he is constantly like giving if statements on like a if they fight here. Then we'll like You know the-these definitely incredibly aggressive so And and the team does not play around. And maybe that changes in play. Offs necessarily like around power bills win con. Maybe that changes. Who knows 'cause the meta just did change towards control majors. Now but yeah. I'm not concerned at all of what peter's concerned Lcs being the slow play meta going into worlds. They will just be the worst teams. That's just going to be the reality. Feel like i mean so. Tsm's not like they sit back and just scale and do nothing you know. He's gonna play aggressive. Speaking make things happen in the early game. It's all comparative. I think is like the point for me is not that. They don't do anything but compared to l. p. l. teams and More aggressive teams. Tm is not at that level And i think that's more peers point which is hyperbolic say they sit back and do nothing but when you watch your games. Of course simmons doing things But i think it's the idea of risk management and other than houdini. Some actually has an. Maybe they have pretty low tolerance for risk like you know they're not gonna like fifty fifty insanely hard. Yeah and same with ti. So it's like these guys don't do anything but like a lot of the times. If fight doesn't look on their terms they might not take it up. Then then speaker speaker fights. But i don't think speakers just like a i mean he's not blabber in terms of just like lab is going to kill himself on scotto crap speaker smarter than that and that's credit to speak a knock against him for people saying like worried about that. I'm just saying play style wise like they're not gonna they're not gonna flip. Things generally argue that. Well we will see i. But i do like the idea that this sort of sets the stage for for playoffs as we head into it and i think is going to be an interesting thing to see The other thing. I want to bring mark if if we if we don't have a take to we have a take about top lehner or fudge slush impact stuff. It'll pull that many take sex or we're talking about This is a relatively involved. First thing that you know it's fair fair fair The other thing. I will here. Here's what i will say. We'll we'll all throw this out there. As bait for people who want to get on the show i would love conversation about impact verse. Houdini verse fudge. Because i see people so die hard in these different camps. Where like some people like it so peter done in that same interview. Obviously very biased. The coach said that there's a the biggest gap in the lcs between first and second is in terms of role is between impact and everybody else on top line. And then i've seen a lot of people and it seems like grass have strong opinion about say like actually who needs way better or say fudges way better and ever people seem to be very very strongly divided about the stuff And so i. I want to I think it'll be a good discussion. Because i think i've as rare that i see so many people so strongly in the camp of of this type of thing so if anybody has a take on that mark. I'm sure we'll be pulling those and looking for them for a while. But while we wait real quick just to hop into finish my thoughts i wanted to highlight this point a little bit more again about the productivity and the amount of action that happens in the game. Tm is the second lowest in combine. Kills per minute in the league right now. Okay so even by north american standards from some of these other teams. They're not taking that many fights. They're not being that risky. We're golden gardens like runs. It sometimes is high up there. Eg dig fly. Somebody seems so there. At point seven one combined kills permit l. p. l. i can't they're all higher literally. The entire league has a higher combined. Kills per minute then. The lowest point seven four the high point nine three c. Same thing no one is that low point seven three is the lowest one is the highest. So when we're talking about productivity and risk management as invert. The talking about you know like coin flipping is also not necessarily productivity. There is a distinction in these different categories but just in terms of the amount of action that they are taking is lower on a global scale. And that is what. Peter is talking about for people. Who don't believe this. I don't know what to tell you. Team liquid is at point seven. Three they are also on the low end. This is the point when you look globally. It's not that these teams are bad. It's not that they don't make plays and there's zero productivity and their games they know how to make leads but when you compare them to the speed of the game that the rest of the top teams in the world play it. They are slower. I mean the only reason that really compares his l. c. k. And that is a notoriously slow league as well what is the what is the lowest in that the second to lowest the lowest is and it's just point seven seven one. Let's geez just like they can't win like they're they're really bad. You're not finding fights that they can win exempts. I mean this is always been the case in terms of relative to It's like the absolute versus relative relative to l. l. They will always be slower than they will always be more risk management. And so like do. I think that's ever gonna change no based off competition. That's not gonna change. You're not going to have like teams like flacco. Kademi like us academy by the way when i say data me know when they brought up their academy team for the There were just so bad in the first ten minutes in their landing face but there are still a team had like a great mindset about like. if we're behind we really like looking ahead talking about when like a how to take a fight to get back into the game decline in and knowing. What's the perfect time of doing. So these are things that more and more teams should just be doing But if you just not challenged then there's no need to play a faster game when i say need like need in the c. And so every time a team goes through an international event. They're learning this. The learn the lesson mid event. You're like we need to play faster. We need to have these basically like failsafe points within our draft and then the lesson is like man we need to. This is just the way we need to play when go back to the lcs then they go back to the and they have like about three months in which is like. We don't need to do the share back to winning this god so someone in champ started playing this person but down for cards says there are these are bad stats to because peo- doesn't play assassins in whom he usually just slip pushes. That's no you're looking backwards. That's our point. Is that the whole meta for the majority of the split. Was malay assassins in like aggressive champions in the mid lane. It's only slowed down the last couple of weeks but they were never good at that style. They don't win with lucien they don't as asan's generally they they win with control ages in. That's his style and that's the point. Is that like when you go internationally. And someone's picking this aggressive shit in leaving your lane in diving bottom and being in weird places you know like you have to be ready for that and and that's the point. I mean at the very least. Here's here's the the tsa copious. I feel like which is it's good for. Tsm that teams like eeg exists in the league right because like too to both of your points if historically the elsia has played too slow in all the teams are playing this way. Then what i think. What rise was saying like you go you start screaming these teams when you go off to world or msi. Assign like whoa. These guys are doing crazy stuff. And so you know maybe the fans should be happy that a team like e. g. exists or that golden guardians or fly quest exists as perhaps as ironic is as that may seem because they are are forcing fights and being more proactive which is more in line with what they should expect to see at the very least lic pl competition at world. So it's always a good thing when we have different play styles. Yeah everything will change once the bootcamp start coming up. I feel like literally every time. The bootcamp starts from any team even g to like g to when they went as far as the finals. We're getting stopped by. Asian teams gotta change as much again in a and basically like frame everything to what they need to do so at least from that perspective of not concerned Though it is a good time to literally start during the season so it is what it is all right. Well we have He can as much liberty as we can with our pre call segments. So it's time to get into some callers do it on. Yeah let's let's go through the all right. thank you to casey clark. Yeager bomb stone mall denying for gifting. Five subs the real divert. Who says oh yeah for the six months count. Zero zero wine. Sober quit her. Is that it. Oh and blue jays here. Blue jay remind ever from a guy is calling from ontario. How you guys doing good ontario california. Yup moved from canada ontario california. Where he wanted to that. I know you're not in canada okay. ontario canada. Yes okay i was like what do you wanna talk about on the show this week and you talk about on the show. This week blue jay. Yeah my take is about the bracket. I think that the playoff bracket being locked a terrible system and i think. Dsm should be able to choose their their seat like they have every other year. I'm a little bit. I'm a little bit puzzled as to why they made the change. Honestly hey i pulled this take for a very specific reason because there's a reason that this is happening. Wait let's i want to hear blue explained before you explain head. Explain what i think. The first seed should be able to choose their think. There's a benefit you just think that should always be the perk of being versi. Yeah i think that. I prefer the number one team being able to choose and i. I don't know if this is well. It seems like it's possible that one hundred thieves now could have thrown their game by putting in their kademi squad to get Edgy on their side of the bracket knowing where they would be. You know what i'm saying like. They knew that they were going to be on the lower part of the upper bracket and now they were like well they could have been. I'm not accusing. I'm not saying one way or the other. But it's possible that they purposely put in their academy squad just so that they got the teams they want to face mark. So there's there's a couple of things pack. There's that whole hundred thieves situation which i'm sure we can talk about but as far as i'm aware and this is who told us me which makes sense when i hear him say is in summer twenty twenty because there was dynamic seething with a lower bracket which is caused golden guardians to play. Tsm twice in their best of five almost like back tobacco. Whatever it was you know because it and then they get in. Removing dynamic seating stops these repeat conflicts from happening because the bracket isn't changing on the fly. And that was the problem that tsn benefited from last time around was they got to play golden guardians again. You could argue if it was a benefit or not but it feels weird golden guardians at least to say. Hey we just beat the best of five and we're playing them again. So as i understand it. This bracket change was with the explicit re purpose to remove repeat matches from happening. And as far as you can in the bracket because at that point there were a lot of teams that you know. Golden guarantee played so along. Mark just said We have kamikaze. Platypus works for guardians. And i know has has worked it on some of the format suggestions to to write previously. So as i can tell you exactly why the changes made a fixed bracket is needed prevent early rematches or radic bracket which was mark. What mark was saying. If number one can choose it takes massive bracket manipulations prevent round one winner rematches and in addition the reward of being. I is you get to face an easier opponent. The only reason this debate is going on right now is because some people think eg the rightfully earned third seed is not actually the third seed in terms of skill potentially. Why one hundred thieves. Maybe one hundred thought that right. Maybe i'm not saying they did not say why. Yeah potentially you could. I mean in any scenario right. Yeah earth's first and second seat. I guess you could make the argument in. This is what i say too. So you can maybe make the argument. That first and second don't have that much of a difference in their our in the bracket depending on what else has happened in the bracket in terms of how many good teams there are whatever in theory. You should still be in a better position because you don't have to play. What is the third best team usually. So that's not on the brackets fault. That's the league is this time around. Additionally you only have to win a single fucking best make worlds you. Have you get the by and then you get a extra life by getting first or second seat like that's a pretty massive advantage already. So i think it's kind of overblown I mean it's very confused into money because When i ask players and teams and all this stuff for the past couple of weeks who are the best teams in the league. Right now everyone says. Tsm g then you end up in a situation where people are like. Oh they're dodging eeg. Who supposedly perhaps even the best. I mean i guess it probably depends on if you're asking a tsm stand or not. But like i it just it is a fascinating thing to me in. That people are like they. They will say e. g. is the best. But then there's a bunch of people who believe eeg is not the best to sort of provoke this conspiracy theory. Yep yeah sorry. Go ahead rest. Yeah pretty much. I mean for me. The first puzzling thing is like the whole what. I'll start with one hundred six point which is I mean barth came out with his tweet saying that they could just be dodging g. 'cause they don't think that they're number. They're a top team And if that's first of all that's something you can never verify Literally ask every team if you even asked like a to call I think i forget. Which interview was i believe it was. Then who the best like teams were people resoundingly sable genius and when you hear from the fans and when you hear from like or just see the games from evil geniuses geniuses at the top three team so for me that part isn't even an issue At least from the standpoint of like is able geniuses atop team. I think the most confusing thing is that we're unsure at the rate of progress Cloud nine and team liquid or having right. Now it's like that you don't know what they're going to be looking like in playoff times cloud nine has gotten much much better but i would still say genius a team best team so like from that perspective. I just think that's bullshit point dynamic receding like. That's another one. Where i know we already had that conversation and i i just wonder how much advantage do. We have to give a i c team because like what mark just said was literally like yeah. They're one best of five away from worlds. They got an extra by They're going up against what would be what's it called Weaker opponents. Yeah what could happen. Is like the typical orangey idea of like they could. A team could just play poorly during the regular season and not have their full roster and then come in and have everything ready by then but then like that. That should just happens as happened every fucking split pl and alp. Yell doesn't have like dynamic reseeding. They have like a a pseudo gauntlet in which like all of those fears. That he mentioned are has always been in place within those systems. So it's one of those things where it's like this kind of mentality is what brought us to make Random like massive complaints of the l. c. k. system of the first team Team being put into the finals itself we at some point you have such a large advantage. Already where it's a slippery slope of this type of conversation like that's my main issue with your and as the point. Chaz well they have i if both the and to see when they have site selection over two so that was that was another. Yeah that was another addition that they added in from some year this year. Not used to this. Yeah i mean like it's like how how much you want you. you want to. Just get seated into the finals. Like elsie k. It's i'm with you. It's like how much how much more do you need before. It's like just fucking when your best of five if you if you're one of the best teams it's funny somebody i think somewhat maybe sardonically chat was saying like playoff perks as real or like you know. Some people are like. Yeah but see nine is gonna look better all stuff and i'm just like it's really weird if you create a bracket or like a format where you're like and we have to plan around the idea that some of our teams just suddenly become way veteran. Play it's like. It's such a bizarre concept of lake. That's the thing that will always be the case in literally every league like a l. Whenever you get to the final week it depending on which team is really fucked it up during the regular season and is now inform. It's like okay. Then you have at least some power of whether or not you're going to get to like the opponent you want and your main objective is to just be as good as fucking possible so when it's playoff time that you perform with the see that you are given like if you are the first seed you're given the by you're giving theoretically were the worst opponent you just need to perform now and maybe that's just me coming in from like watching and loving Nhl as a kid growing up. I don't watch as much anymore. Because i've moved far too much but watching nba now and watching the sea that they've had and and for me. What's always mattered is performing during the fucking playoff games with advantage that you were given there are always going to be anomalies and things that are thrown your way that you kind of have to get over like those. Are the those are the trials that you have to face and in this case the trial it should be theoretically. They're weaker team. So that's it's also ironic has dsm. Last year was the team that was weaker in the regular season but drew and perform during the playoffs. Like they were the team that You know where the intangibles is in a sense in comparison like that nine alright are right now. You just can't prepare for that shit so please just perform in playoffs. That's my point. I think is a really good team. Though i think the dsm right now is the best team in the league. They shouldn't have to worry blue. Jay feels like everybody unless call disagrees with you. Do you have any quick rebuttal will. Yeah i so. I actually think that they do bring up some really good points because i was unaware that actually stopped people from replaying each other when it comes to the bottom seed or the bottom bracket So that's actually something that makes me feel a lot better about it. However i do want to ask. Is there a possibility that. Tsm or the number one seed would still be able to pick their team that they play against and then the bottom bracket would still purposefully avoid teams that they've already played. Is that a possibility or is that just not ever on the table. So i good. I'm pretty sure it's possible if you are manually. Doing it. which you can do. But then arch. Isn't the team going to complain. Then like on the bottom bracket that you push them into having to place someone that there be like. This is a tougher matchup. Like oh now i don't play the same team again but i have to play this harder team impossible. Yeah right like if he loses dig. Moose eeg then beats going guardians. And then i'm plays t. L. like i i. I'm just. I don't know it's possible but that's really difficult to to go through over just like a fifteen minute call you. You're always going have some. They can play like no system is ever perfect. Everything is a trade off the idea that when people i hate this when people are just like critique formats all the time like oh well look at this problem. That's come up now. It's like every formats have a fucking problem. You kind of see that. In the way i feel like the lcs makes format changes all the time. And i feel like it's always response to the thing that had happened like the year before. And it'd be like oh no this. What has a problem and then they get. So it is kinda like whack-a-mole. I feel like sometimes where you even in the chat. That the conversation of like. Hey you know people are saying. Hey it's really hype that that rematch is happening again. Like you know what. I mean like the thing that we were avoiding. That's hype and i would agree with that. But then literally at the time. People were complaining of how bullsh- i'm talking from the fan's perspective of how bullshit was because they saw that from the team saying why are we facing this team again. Just like there's always going to be a negative side to this. It's always going to be the case. And so that's why. I don't like the slippery slope argument because we're in terms of making a regular season matter so much for the team. That's at first that you give them more and more and more advantages than as a fan. I'm watching basically lopsided games for the first place team to get all the way to the finals. And i'm just saying like i. That's the one thing i don't want happening. I'm not saying to go in the opposite direction. i think i've made it very clear that i think this is a good system. The only thing that i would not like about this system. And i've had this conversation with cut gut on this one which is like even though eight teams for this system makes it really fucking citing because you have a lower bracket that we've all wanted that's eight teams in ten team league either either. We had more teams to this. Make getting into plows worthwhile or or that's the one thing i always ate is because i've always thought getting into the playoffs as A challenge in and of itself And for some things of course. It's a challenge. But sure i get some really fun games in double bracket but let's get some more teams in the lcs then blue jay we have razz here. I don't think i have a call for this. I mean here on this topic. One hundred thieves benching their kademi team thoughts. It just sucks as a fan. I don't blame them whatsoever. Honestly for the record. I think they have the right to do whatever the hell they want. But it's like oh well this game that could have meant well did mean a lot is now. It doesn't mean as much because you just know that it's heavily weighted on one side. So i think it sucks for the fans but if you're one hundred thieves like maybe there's some issues because they've been losing a lot lately right maybe like i don't know what kind of situation they're in. And what's going on behind the scenes with them. So i think it's hard for me to judge I just know as a fan of feels kinda bad. I feel like everyone will forget us in three weeks like the thing. So you'll say to though on that is that i think that even if you're see nine and you're pissed or your t. l. And your piss. I think those teams would do exactly the same thing if they thought it. Benefited them so i don't think like i don't think they really can say much. I think every single team would do what they think is best for them. And i think that it's up to the people that are running the league to make the rules in the best ways so that no one can take advantage. That in a seni- do something like this longtime ago. I'm trying to remember. I thought they did something really substance and players towards the maybe. It wasn't shopping in their whole academy team or something. It's not uncommon in. I feel very strongly that. I don't give a fuck hundred. Th-this earned the right to do what they want by getting sexy locked. You know and eighty strategically correct for them to do this. Because one you're starters get a day off. Go go get food. You hide whatever your your starters might have played against e. g. who you're probably gonna play again and in playoffs in two weeks and you also get to develop your academy team and put them up against a really good team and see how they perform like. There's literally no reason. There's actually no reason. You can give me to start my my starting roster there what i do that well just because teams are always talking about how valuable stage games are versus grins. They say screams doesn't really teach us that much. Where stage does an extra game could see it. Radically squad played thirty games. One more second matter. I'm still with you mark. I agree with you but you said. Give me one reason so i gave you a reason all right all right. You gave me a toilet bowl reason causey. Platypus says Nine did do this against clutch and it was their entire academy team. And i think they you mentioned the you got clutch if i recall that as well which i in this situation on both ends with. Csm complaining about not receding. And whether i should bench my team in two thousand fifteen summer we were playing seal g last game to decide who gets first place and we knew. Csm was fourth adding that detail travis. Either not that in the whole they'd be clutch mark finish. I like the shave that he threw in there at the team And so we talked in the room. We're like yo. If we be g here we get first place. Which means if. Tm wins their match against the fifth seat or whatever we probably play them which is scary because we thought csm was way better than the regular season record. And you know what we did. We went out there and we gave it our best and we beat we. They were probably trolling a little bit. With some of the places they made and we beat their ass and then we drew tia sam and we fucking lost in playoffs now. So thank you for the call. Thanks for having me anything. You'd like to say before we go to a quick break. Yeah mark. I just wanted to show your casting. It seems like you've kind of revitalized yourself. And i like it so i think you're doing a good job. I agree you revitalize yourself you were kinda decrepit and falling apart but you revitalized yourself. It's been nice to see you know firm has been to has now you know. That's that's i agree with you. Blue jay but yeah no meam honestly. I think you're doing a really good job. So i thought i'd let you go but thanks for me on the show guys. Thanks bye to thank. You not gonna give them color of the night. That was a great. That was a great call. Travis can't give it to regular. Well i can't give it to regulars. It is harder to give it to canadians but it's discrimination raider. oh Only because because a lot more difficult to send them a product that is only available in the us but then you give it to somebody in new zealand. We've done it before. I think i have gotten it to blue. Bluejays well But i also just feel like i mean that's a take that like san torn and read it in a ton of people had. I'm glad you brought it up. But like there is nothing revelatory. They're razz ed. His in his take the same people are gonna watch this youtube. Video are just gonna go to this time stamping that's it he deserves. He's giving you clicks well That's not that's not what drives the keen fuel call of the night of victory caller. But you know. What does dr everything we do. Trump's covered industries alienware Vigorous much earlier for sponsoring the show. A one thing that i wanted to to mention and i think they are still available. If you're listening to this show right now. i've been telling you all i've been telling you about alienware arena which you can you can Discover by going to ailing. Were dot com slash. Travis i believe that there is a banner up at the top. I know they're always changing it. Yes it's this joint alienware arena today and And one thing. I've been telling you about all the there. Well some of you might be familiar with back for blood which is a spiritual successor to left for dead. I played a tunnel. Effort did back in in college and They are they are giving. I mean i actually just did this because i did it. It's not even a thing. Where like i hit the upright this. I just got an email earlier today. That they have back for blood Beta keys that you can get right now. Off alien were arena. And so it's not even like i had a conversation with them. I just saw the email clicked in and got the the beta key. I believe they still have some It's hard for me to tell 'cause i've already claimed it but No actually. I can't see the there's still a ton of these available right now. So this is one example of the cool stuff that you can get for signing up for alienware arena and you can get right now you could just go over to ailing comes as travis. If you're listening to the or the or watching or listening to the podcast. I don't know if it's still available. You can go check. But they all sorts of stuff like this constantly as is completely free to join And so please sign up for ailing wearing a please do so through my link and maybe you can go check out the back for blood open beta right now. Just get this free key. But they got a whole bunch of cool stuff. There's a keys deal. See keys for different games Access to close betas All sorts of really cool stuff so we. We love ailing arena. Thank you so much alienware for sponsoring everything. We do And again this is just a cool way. Where like you can get access to you. You can help support the show even by not like not necessarily even going out and purchasing an alien. Pc maybe you're not in the market yet But you can sign up for alienware arena and that stuff also helps us out as well so i went ahead and put lincoln and the twitter chat for it. Hopefully you guys can do that. It would be swell and Thank you so much anywhere for sponsoring the show penna in the chest cool shirt thank you. Thanks talking to me. He says cool shirt. Oh he does say at rather plasma there we go there. We go got this shirt recently. And i was really excited about it. And i have a cool shirt travis. I'm wearing a team shirt right now. Our team gear mark sitting over there and sealed g stuff raza's and golden guardian stuff. I wasn't one hundred stuff i change. While you're doing your ad push route. Nine pants audio. Don't forget we have a caller here by the way quick rob welcomed the show where you calling from. Am conference troy. Michigan troy michigan. Have you been on the show before. I have welcome back. What do you wanna talk about on the show. I'm gonna talk about the broadcast of it. I'm kinda surprised ice to this but mark also pulled the call. So i'm very curious polls how mark is surprised by the taco broadcast. You snuck on so Kind of stealing an idea from the c. n. evening But we should really try and get some Some pros and coaches on the analyst desk and even the castro desk for try cast now that we have teams that are at play playoffs. We can try and get players from those teams can help players built. Their brands can make the broadcast more interesting. Bring some seimas more analysis and different perspectives especially from like specific lanes from specific matchups. These players can bring and I know we've had some some success for this. Even with like caja. He you know. He came on as a guest meals e and now he's one of their best casters than i think. It would just be a great idea to do the season. Why do you think this is a good idea. 'cause for me. You know we throw at half these players every year anyway. So there's a fifty fifty chance that whoever we invite under the broadcast is going to be competing. Lcs why are we spending time building That that brand well. They could continue their brand even on the broadcast. If they do a good job and a lot of these players they even stick around in amateur and academy even if they're not in the so we could even bring players to watch the lower levels. Remember peter talking about trying to save the soul of the lcs we need to take more fifty fifty s bringing these players on and you hope to god. They're still in the next year. Yes i think that that would be nice. I mean i was obviously being a little sarcastic with my my query. But i i i think this is cool. You just have to pick the right. The right people. But brock's for instance is a great example of somebody who i would love to see a join the the broadcast for playoffs for some time. And and you know he's always got amazing wisdom. So yeah i think i can answer or at least like they might be some this one one thing that mark. No this one for sure like there is a good portion of this blit. Every post game was a player. was a play post game like literally every game and i think it was like i don't know how many weeks um and we also invited coaches we had The empty coach Bring them on and they just you just do an interview with them. He's talking about like making them a guest host for the analyst. He's gonna guest casting as well like so like. My thing is finding a player that is because i i love this and i think the i know that the producers would love this too. So there's two things to it. I like having a player that has that interest in like being on the show and being unlike a desk in all these types of things and like who is really fucking good in terms of being a communicator. So there's that aspect of it until like especially with the Lcs being with a lot of new players Getting them and like seeing how good they are. Now they are is one point and then another thing and this is just the curse of north america. What does what does the player do after they're done. I'm asking you to go. They go to academy they stream. That's running they stream. It's more like i happened. I really like that doesn't happen. Whose streams right now well before he went back to sea algae. The month was streaming. Yeah doing that like for that is not it's not. We're you're talking about retirement right well. I mean retirement is a quote unquote whether they get back in or not and another thing is also like i think people who are great communicators. I think right now are like grayson. Who moved into coaching for people Golden glue. that's what i meant. Second say his name not a golden goose great communicator. I one thing. I can't even speak to the past like literally only fucking game on this year I think the from whatever this for sure interest in it we just need to get. We're doing the baby steps. First of like getting them on the desk more and more a guest hosting i mean. That's just means that we need to get a player that isn't playing at all. I think and we literally have we have What is it. Media says is literally own show On sundays which is what is the name of that show again next level next labelle perfect. You've just recently on it now. I was not recently on travis. Choose your words wisely. I literally thought you were on recently. Or you're gonna be on soon. I thought he was being no. I was on on week. Two or something in those eight. Okay maybe that was. I haven't watched it in several weeks. And so maybe i'm maybe maybe two months Is how long. It's been since i've watched it. I haven't seen any of the recent episodes kazaa. There's another analyst also back confusing you guys take different temperaments. I literally just thought you were on it very recently. No i don't know what what over time masterminds. Now i wasn't but i do line-by-line everytime so like that's probably i know you're the host of lane by lane. Just recently anyways on topic. I think the idea of getting pro players on the desk is great and i think especially given that the we have eight teams and players as rasp was just lamenting a little bit. That is the perfect testing ground. I think for best to five cast with a pro player. Maybe don't do them for all the games in case it's rough or something you just get them for like a guest for game to and make it a try casper that one game to get that experience and see how it feels this player who who might do more of them or something. I feel like that's a pretty safe environment to do it. Given that they're usually not like high stakes games but they're not usually like the biggest teams in the league. And that's an area for the casting angle. I think for the desk. It's a lot easier. Like get fucking jose on. He has a brand right now. He's streaming. he's the third-biggest on twitch right now or for legal legends. Like that's someone who i think. The north american audience has nearly the exposure to him than his actual fan base. Has i know he's he's streaming in spanish. But i just mean that. Like i mean. I've talked to them we. We've seen him on the broadcasts. He speaks english fine. He could do the desk. Yeah yeah i i. I struggle so much with stuff like with hose. Ideo for it's it's tough for me like one. I'm not saying i don't think this is a good idea but i will say like part of me feels sad because if you told me jose de auto does not start for an lcs team. Next year i would believe you if you told me. Brock's does not start for an lcs team. next year. i would believe. That's not what i want but it is just a tough situation because we have such insane turnover in the league right now. That like it's these types of challenges. Like i i agree. This is a great opportunity to build the fan base around a player. But i feel like we frequently do this and then like they disappear for like a year or more and all that is lost. So it's it's tough. Finding stability is for sure like the first challenge after last year to losing a lot of players. People talk about And a lot like smith is another great example of like ends mickey sneaky also having a really strong performance at least on streams so getting those type of players for sure is one thing but one thing that i do like is getting the opinions of leg north american legends. Like high right. That's on the desk. Now this stuff. But i i like that stuff. But it's we do so much content with former pros. You know what i mean. And we do sell a little content with current pros which is why they yes travis and not worry about it through the league next time just say yes don't say don't you the reason why there's there's a downside to it just say yes say yes de rance said about the high stuff you know. I like seeing high on the on scene point before you're like. Oh well the problem with bringing jose on our brock says they might not be lazy. I raise it if only because i think it highlights the next step which is for us to make sure that there's less turnover in the lcs. I'm saying this is a great idea. I agree with you. But i think it is if you stop it at this point. If you just say we're going to bring these guys on and you don't talk about the broader picture. Which is we need to lower the turnover of players in the lcs than it is a situation where you are like not solving like the bigger picture. You are just sort of tweaking this one thing that may or may not even have any result. That's why i raised it. Because i think a lot of people think at look at the stuff and the problems that the league is facing and they see one small specific thing they go. Oh you know like we. We really need to have players. Do some more interviews or we really needed. Have you know x. Thing happened and it's like for me sorry. I feel very passionately about this as you can tell. There's huge systemic issues with the league right now which is what's causing it to have historically low viewership and i. I really want to make sure that when we do things like. Hey let's make sure we get some of these players on the The broadcast s that we also one think is it likely that this player's gonna continue on in the in the future or is this like wasted energy or and to how can we ensure that players continue to start on teams and we don't have as massive upheaval as we've seen recently. Yeah i mean. I actually kinda miss the context before but like comey said you know just having a player as a guest throughout the entire day. I love that idea and to your point if that happens it happens like a good example. is on the eu desk for a full day. And i'm just saying if that would happen right and for whatever reason 'cause you has a pretty high turnover rate with pleasures while 'cause they put pull in a so many players from their masters and he just doesn't play anymore like max loehr. I don't even know if people actually know of. Max laura's in the league before and it just doesn't pan out then shit happens and one of them would stick and if one person six. That's good enough like you are now built a now built brand. That's fair my apologies to mark and tarez for the aggressive tone which i took in the previous conversation tognella this yelling fun rob giant good idea rob and in fact as as a show of my agreements with this agreement is a green seward. You're gonna get wait. Not that one you're gonna get the game feel victory caller of the night. Thank you so much rob. I'm honored for your take. You should be. It is a huge honour. Please me on dischord To follow up on that do. I don't know rob if you have any final thoughts on any of the stuff before i give you your shadow moment. Yeah i'm just I'm glad it's sparked a good conversation. Some my favorite moments on the desk were when we got like alarming caja Happy to hear that people are onboard. Riggott any anything you want to say before we move on to our next caller shoutout to gain fuel on alienware of course and shut up to the ohio state university rainbow six siege program. They're doing good work there. I was about to say. Because i've heard recently that ohio state university has a great league program as well and i was excited and then you're like siege. I'm like well don't ever go. They're doing good work in a in a lot of games. Yeah thanks so much rob. We'll catch you next time. Thank you all right next kala. yes mark ear. So he left. I was gonna say mark your your facial expressions where you do like these the the big ice of like you just did for next caller they look so pretty right now with the eyelashes. It's up a little bit since. I know it works really so it's gonna be a long time since type till the next time i have the saw if ever yet okay Vegas aberg sober. Equator elimination of the noble it for nineteen months photo. Ll mr mallett. fish sticks. Forty-four for two years america's bucci Blue frost i knew the the scuba diesel Whether mullet and narrow for forty two months holy moly retro paint for four. Thank you everybody who sub stories. A very very nice. I see some people even go back and do it during the the stream Just bob danish is here. Just bob danish. Where you calling from albuquerque. New mexico from where albuquerque new mexico albuquerque new mexico. Have you called in previously. Because i know we had an albuquerque color recently. No no long time. Listener first-time caller. Well glad to have you on what you want to talk about on the show. So i think. Eg should sweep all three awards. Coaching staff member of the year. Peter donna should be joined by rookie of the split Danny and mvp impact impact has been severely underrated. I think he last split. He was one of the top. Three top liners. And but i'll far was clearly above the other two and this split with that gap of all being there. He's clearly the best player in the league if you look at kill participation goal difference by ten. Xp pretend it's by ten he just has great stats and he has the same status as far but in more than twice as many games and so his criticism is that he's this tank player but he has on vigo akali knocked her and now. He's forcing reluctant plans going to the playoffs. I love them. Suzy azam Oh boy okay. So let's break this down one by one I definitely agree. Ag is is up there in conversation for coaching staff. The split who else is in that conversation market rent marxist enjoying twitch tap popping up I love it. I think realistically only beer beer awesome. Okay i mean and narrow and going gardens have been a great job but like tenth to eighth to says the sexy headline it needs to be. Yeah so i would probably say those two teams. I don't know for as another one hundred thieves. Yeah i mean they did good but it just feels weird that they started hot than fell apart. A little bit not fell apart. But you know start struggling. More which do teams say i e g and tsm are the two that are probably actually competing for with hundred being the third on my ballot. Att smu edgy. Golden guardians immortals. 'cause it's like one of those things where like most improved team also kind of blaze plays into it as well but immortals last half Summer didn't feel too good and some yeah was also pretty Didn't make sense for me. But like immortals in golden guardians definitely improved as a team. Quite a bit i'll say. Tsm i'd say dsm you think some of her it's between hurting including in your suggesting it's tsm and e. G are the only options. I think there are four options once again. I do hate coach flick split. Because i don't fucking not going onto coaching staff. They've brought to for they have broadened. It some yeah but you still don't know how much of it is the players in. How much if it is is the actual coaching staff. Like that's why i can say you know going guardians in mortals because it's very clear like concepts that they're working on got much better at to like okay. This is something that you could various very. Well see like a coaching staff. Having a hand in and you could say the same thing for tsm evil genius one hundred percent. But that's why. I just don't like the award but if i was at the say something that i probably i'd be dsm i watched tsm's documentary series. Does eeg have a documentary series. God how can i evaluate. Peter done if behind the scenes. I can't see him telling players. They're not good enough is that what must does not assume documentary says. Don't get excited. We're not good yet okay. They developed danny did they or didn't develop himself. I will say though like in that context. I mean i like it's so hard so hard to to danny develop himself. He's like a seventeen year. Old has skipped academy I dunno okay. Well we're never gonna have that chance if they didn't have an both in academy team an amateur team which they picked them up from the amateur team and some lcs teams that. I don't have that. I will say that golden guardians find that they don't have it because they essentially have like so many goddamn rookies on their academy team that it's essentially an amateur team and they also run their academy in amateur events like okay. That's that makes sense but a lot of teams dila withhold now for them. Well we were talking about. Danny which leads us to call her second point. Which is the rookie of the split. And is it okay. I'll proposed same thing is it Just forgiving an olive. That are running for that. Give the year rookie year with. Aren't you could say either helps or hurts ablaze all case so i think you know as you're kind of saying that travis is between those two ablaze all technically played the whole year whereas danny only played a single split the first half of the year. For ablaze all sucked. The second half is pretty good. I will say a lot of the problems for golden guardians at the time was definitely jungled top lane and not mid you. Factory prices like one of the better roads the bins in that team us playing Decently well Like it's one of those things where for the full year. I'm still on the fence about a between him. And danny danny definitely had an explosive summer and he was on a damn good team I don't think it was the best. He was the best on that team. Because you just literally have bilges. Uk ignore it just hulking out full jordan impact supposedly the mvp contracts like like the problem with evil geniuses that they have too. Many players playing performing. Okay now you don't have that But to that to the point is that like. I think it's between olive who played fine in spring and played insanely well in summer but played the full year versus danny who definitely played well For a good portion of summer split. It's the zion versus. John moran discussion except that discussion. I always think about that discussion. I'm so glad you brought up Mark you with your eyelashes or if Like these made me look less angry. Because i feel like a lot of the times when i space out you go marquis. Okay mad about something here. You think it's contemplative instead of destroyed. Piss yeah i think you should wear those every episode. Sorry continue so i was. I was ready to move. I feel like we both said like okay. The first two you can argue. Maybe the guys have a yeah. I know it's up in the earliest. Mvp caller controlling. no way. i love impact is great. No way who are your. Mvp candidates mark Speak probably abadaka. And then i would even say ges. Uk over uk over impact. Okay yeah it's different. I feel like this the hardest year to vote for. Mvp we're doing shortlist of best players on evil geniuses and this may trigger the fuck outta eeg. Like i may either. They agree with it or trigger. Them is like i think for sure it is the best player in eg and then you're not a lot of people listening is praised because he's support player and you know and play matches not going in his direction but for sure ignore had The most consistent in hawkin at all season long and then i'd going back nets on his own team in impact had an insane split and had like that record. Blake breaking game versus stigmatize goal. Difference so like they just performed really well and in terms of my. Mvp candidates beka fide. Juke abadaka is is still on their Yeah there there's absolutely don't even think impact was the best player in the league. Now he's the top. I think he's like top three only because al wasn't playing for a good portion of the split or eso. But yeah al. Faris had been playing the way. He's been playing. Recently for the whole split. You would say impact is the fourth best top player in the league as the reality. I yeah i've been placed on my all-pro yet exactly between fudge huni and impact. I agree with leaving alpha off just with time of games played But he would he would be on there. So i don't know who had bump but yeah it would make it so that there's only three options Just to tremendous jews. Uk get so many resources. Yeah if you're good player. I'm gonna fucking play around you dude. That's how the game works. i don't want who am i gonna give resources to. And here's the thing like they're always. There'll be players to get resources. I don't like that as a a knock on somebody because like we will say the same shit about caps or perks or something. It's like you'll then did he. Do you give you the game. Like what was the return on investment. Oh i got a lotta shit back. Okay perfect but couldn't you see the return. Isn't that a good argument for a player who doesn't get many resources razz by that same as if the return on investment is. He's helping to get you the game with very or he's being very quote unquote packed full with very little resources than that. Return on investment is great. You know. I am an impact stat. I impact much higher than most people. It sound like. If you wanna play some phone screening split look toppling. List is really bugging competitive in spring split. I had him as my top two next to a al fiery and no one had him now. I feel like there was some people probably evil genius. Numbers had like But in summer split. I just think that you can't Fighters just performing well throughout the entire damn splitting. He didn't have a benefit of a good team for the half. That split half that split. His jungle is running down as his midland running down another the reality. They didn't have an eighty carry. And you is still performing that. Well like fudge Playing well regardless of the situation news. Probably the best lease in in On his own team if not in the league and then of course you have tony as a conversation and Yeah and the impact comes in march and we have a quick discussion around as uk. I don't know if you have another call her about it but not really. I think this is funny. If people say like oh return investments better on impact because you invest less than he does stuff still and it's like it's much harder to be the superstar of your team than the one that isn't actually played around. That much i would say generally asked elevate a team or if you wanna play weakside like hey do you wanna play camille furor. Gp kerry's and yet to peter's point impact was strong so he got a lot of resources actually. i'll double check this real quick in a second but more theoretically conversing here like i. I much more impressed with someone is like. Give me the fucking rock. And i'm a carrier ass then like i'm a stand the corner. Catch the ball when you pass to me and hit the open three. You know like yeah ones a lot less resource intensive. But i want the guy who can actually like. Gimme gimme the game. Someone in your judges said Fudge only played leeson once split. He plays It six times. It's literally tied for his most played. Don't tell guys don't do it. I'm fucking blow up. You want me to blow up on. Actually they do. But you don't all right up to peter's point as well about impact playing nine and being weeks honestly i agree In jungle proximity behind who need liquor. Chanel fiery So yeah he plays like he's spam in and other strong side and they invade and they control and they play really fucking agro point peter impact. It's all these resources yet still is able to do much with it. What peter just helped me realized impact not the star doesn't deserve but honestly look here's the thing impact is playing really well if i see someone voting impact as mvp at the end of the year. I'll be like. I would love to have a conversation with them. Because they have a defense. I still would for sure. I like. that wouldn't be on my vote on. Yeah but like if someone else did it was like okay. That's defendable I did. That's why i'm going back to the the very beginning of the show. Which is. I can't wait for those ballots to come out because you always get some wild ass of ballot from somebody. I just feel like this. Okay you'll get obviously like you said the jose. Do best wrangler ever thing. But bird eighty kerry again gonna stop. I think it's gonna be really messy this year. I think just because it's because the league has been messy Not just like. Wow just vote for claude nine for everything because they are undefeated. You know almost undefeated Excuse me just. Danish sounds like these guys disagree with a lot of your takes. I don't know if you have any any lessons you wanna instill upon them though. I think it's it's just hard for a tank player to win. Mvp in mark's world. that's fine i think. Impact does a really good job of taking his lead in vigo and nar and wu kong and knocked her and a collie dude so many tanks up there the top line right now you plays on that one orne game. Let let let the caller talk but he takes his advantage and wins his team the game and i think that's where i think he deserves credit. Fuck you mark this. This call was sexually chaotic energy. We're like we're just responding to twitter chat half the time. We're not like yeah. We're we're all over the place. Sorry call her. well i have. I have one tangent unless bob danish. I don't know if you have anything else. You wanna follow up on otherwise. I have one final tangent for us. If mark does want to see where. Peter done shows his clear vision for g. You can just watch interviews by this interview. Trafford they're pretty good all our. Let me tell you you got like. I said you swum for three fences. I don't how to put this. You took three shots. Two of them might go. Ed one is definitely an air ball for me okay. The last the last thing that we kind of started to touch on. And i wanted. I wanted to go back to really quickly jews. Uk this is a player who you know if you're if you're if you're reading read it if you're ever looking at twitch chats people say he's just emptying he's a coin flipper. There's all this stuff from like twenty. Twenty that has sort of Pervaded the twenty twenty one stuff. So i'd love to hear from mark and razz. Do you think what what do you think of him. Is he a coin. Flipper is he still intaking as is twitch chat in any way right on the stuff are they way off base. What is what is what should the accurate picture of juki be. I'll start first with this one. I think whenever people take this terminology it's usually picked up from justified game or a slew of games like the first week or two weeks. He had yeah. Yeah some coin flip moments and it was like stemming from of course the previous splits as well and so like that statements comes but he was still like halting out. I gotta stop saying that he still has like doing incredibly well in the first ten minutes of the game in phase and then the rest is split uses playing really well So of course. Like if i'm at the end of split looking back like hell no. He was in coin. Flipper uses a uses. A really good player backed Consistent player But if you were to ask we to res- re three res-. I'd be like yeah. He was going flipping so there should not but nowadays. He's not going to believe that he's he's playing in that manner l. No he's not and and a lot of it comes down to the fact that i think the team is just better as all. So yeah i. I think like we talked about how public perceptions sometimes lags behind reality even for analysts. You know like oh. This guy had to bad weekends. I could weekend. Oh well okay. Played a little better and then second good. Only oh okay. He's a little better like they're good weekend. That maybe you're like oh wait. He's actually playing well but technically he's been playing well since week three and so i think that kind of stuff public perception definitely happens even happens us to and so basically saying week two which is seven out of nine weeks. He's been playing real fucking good and he plays a different way than a lot of people in the league. He super agro. He wants to actually get every advantage that he sees and will will force the issue You know he. He's very proactive. I think one thing. He did was have a pretty narrow champion pool for a lot of their positions. Which helped i think they did less experimentation. Somebody other teams but to their credit like they're they know what they wanna do and they they seen have plenty of picks to get it done so i think he is the real deal and it has stemmed off catering the team towards juki more than changing djukic admit. Meet the team you know like. I don't think there's really that much of a half way if you look at each spring. I don't think like decision wise. I think they're smarter. I think they're max better in terms like the place down on the fights that they were picking. I think it's very similar in the rest of us. Gotten more on the same page is it. is it likely because it sounds to me like an From whatever we said it is unlikely we would see e. g. Play this style if it wasn't jews. Uk sort of pushing it so quickly. I'm not gonna vote for him. For mvp boiler your. Maybe i don't know or at least in terms of my first vote. I don't think so. But what i'll say is i cannot imagine swapping just uk with any player in the league in having eg retain their play style while there you go. So he's he deserves more than the community seems. Give them is. It seems to be your both of your stances. Since person you can put probably see blaise olive riley. Who's who is the closest player in place now. Uk that you can put in right now. Maybe perks perks is a decent option. I guess is not throw a few mill. Do milley's exactly okay. People on chat now spamming a million different people. Okay bob danish. Thank you so much for the call anything you want to shut out before we go on to our next caller shout to the boys of the tsa down discord server. Thanks for having me. Shout out to the boys. Thank you bob. Danish catching okay. I relieving gorge out of the conversation. I mean just wasn't the best in the first five or so weeks because the team was having problems so he had anybody. Do you guys think anybody from tales in any conversation for anything. Maybe some like third or seconds all pros if i really like i think tactical and core. Jj might end up on this for me. Yeah we're just talking about thirds for sure. But if we're having a conversation about like the others individualistic awards than they're not on the list. Mark is off to grab the next caller. I think you to retro paint and anke to pancakes for the subs. If you're watching the show right now and you have a prime sub that is available. It would be super swallow if you sent that my way because costs you nothing. I mean i guess it costs you the subscript but like you know. It's kind of built into something. You're not going to spend money in this moment and it is very helpful to the stream. It is shockingly helpful. And i shot at your name at some point in time and i would love it if you would hook it up. We have a lot of great supports this season. Like who he I've already said the genius support multiple times. Now support an supporting. Is those the send a prime sub to my twitch channel guys can all be great supports. luna's here's how you say your name that's fine. I guess is it may backwards. Yeah it's my name backwards. Okay so should. I just call you manual manual. Where are you calling from I'm currently in columbia columbia. Oh wow okay well. What do you want to show Well it's kevin reputation. I guess but i'm gonna about how fudge speaker should be the empty front runner. Sincere fudge and speakers should be the mvp front runners using one gap between the two of them. Do you have a Oh fudge pudge by. But by far i mean i'm talking about ninety percent fudge even though it's kind of samy from the last. Yes okay by the way. Are you nine fan. I guess not pricks found you of like shit but yeah okay. Wait fucking bob. Danish lights me. When i pulled him for i confuse i was like man. I could've sworn i pulled to people to talk about the match-ups coming up. And i thought one of them i thought leading manual was one of them. It's because bob. Danish take in in discord as eeg will go up to zero. Then push them at a and go to to to close it out three two. That's fucking for any just goes off about mvp stuff and then manuals take from bob. Danish at seven thirty three pm seven split. Mvp seven fifty. Seven after i said. Hey any predictions for this weekend. And then i pulled him. This mother. fucker is a topic that he actually wanted. Well the sounds like he had screwed over manual. Maybe to bob danish. I don't blame. You sounds like there was some confusion. I apologize for mark hostility. Also run from him and manual. I'm sorry that mark started screaming obscenities literal obscenities in the middle of your explanation. We try to run a professional show here and sometimes just goes a little authorize. How are we gonna punish mark. Why oh why. Aren't you continue. Mark is already punished. He's wearing an me. I'll leave goofy stuff Manual please continue. Why do you think fudge in speaker should be the front runners for mvp. N- okay so fudge i think. Overall he's one of the lane has been in the worst possible situation in the league amongst the top teams. I mean there's been a huge mess. I guess t. has also been cut shaky but i mean ever. Since the beginning with a van whole thing add blabbering pigs. I've been kind of coy flipping running it down for most of the time So i'll be looking at stats and fudge has got an twenty six percent counter pick rate which is the lowest amongst any tumbling it. He just gets the anytime can frustration and this is mainly because he can play especially anything. He's top of the leak and kills that lowest doubts highest per minute. He's just insane again by himself. Probably you know we can talk shirley about him getting resources and game draft with your continue. Yeah with Blabber coming fairly often doubling volkan coming sometimes but the thing is every t- every time can get a bit of help toppling me from his evacuate lehman manipulation leads to him. Getting huge leads Posting minutes and just getting tons of kills at Getting skin. I get to some of those kind of few games. They wanna in the split it. Yeah so we have playing k. Champions like leave yego gwen. He can play essentially anything we haven't been. We haven't seen fudge getting exploited for any of his speaking. I mean split over. Yeah let's let's look I guess. I think he's probably taught player in the hottest team right now. You know some people say gee i think tsm's fling cleanest legal laden's in the in the league less coin. Sleepy he has never been liability for. Tsm you know. I think i speak just carried any game he can. He's never brought any problems with. Dsm helps lanes get ahead overall. This is the best in the league right now. I feel like your argument for speakers a lot. Weaker than your argument for fudge fudge. You're like here's all the stance was speaker. You're like he doesn't ever make. Tsm lose the game. You know life shit speaker okay. Yeah that's at the beginning of the show. You said you wanted to publish so did the previous caller kind of fucked me is. I literally have the same damn take him. Which is i think someone. I'm hoglund is like gee this guy is like wait a minute. I actually agree with them when. Mvp res- I would lean toward. I'm not gonna fucking look. You can when she was out on the voting list. Okay would be your highest candidates yes bugging spoke fudge and speak are both of my one of my higher candidates like he just named do people who are yep make sense as like. I don't even need to hear his defense at that point. Because i'm like you know same wavelength. I'm with you there captain. I'll give you a nice little staff to throw in there too about resources. I mean everyone sound like people think that five heavily played around game. He's not he's actually one of the lowest proximity top players in the league is Sorry coupon no. I was going to say that he. He's at eight point eight percent jungle proximity compared to who he's at thirteen point one licorice twelve point one alpha. Twelve point one. He's he's basically the bottom of the table down there with solo and jenkins in terms of active players. He's he's the least played around top later league because as they said as many. We've management's actually really good. You never need to fix wave. I don't remember you know times for the jungle in usa hover escorted wave in to help him and just like watch. Nothing happened because is he's the he's not a great spot so actually think In game resources he's he's pretty as people were saying good return on investment yup to to things that i think a couple of times People have mentioned volkan tends to go tumbling But i think it's just banned like dives top lane which used regular plate not necessarily like damage invested in him so a twilight. I guess yeah they. They put in a lot of resources in the ops. Out of them up. And so like to your point when you said gary champions like leeson and all that that's actually like they're safe pick where you're like don't in you're still be very useful as the game goes on like that's that's just them picking this champion because a it's a flex but bid seca safe Blind pick that can go for so like he's giving. He's actually not taking updraft resources at all. Like i don't remember. I'm sure it's happened more recently. But more often than not he is blind picking So it's one of those things where yeah for sure fudge and speaker both are pretty high. I also do think that people are stepping on the hundred these players because they were also m. i for the net for the last two weeks of the split mostly like doug i think doug is just too sure should be in the conversation and it would be a shame if he just didn't get any votes because he is i would say that he's my best the mid right now next the so in terms of just full split which this award is about. Yeah mark are reasons. Why fudd shouldn't get mvp. Yeah because there's better options negative. I don't really have much. i should say. Negative to say about fudge It's more that. I think there are other options. Go all right. Here's a non spoiler thing and that. I can output out there. Speeco would be a little higher than for me. Nary a little higher than five. Yeah you think or fudge than speaker. Sorry more speaker than fudge. Gem was bigger than fudge. The like why I mean he's the main sources them the return on investments like insanely good. I don't remember a bad game that he's had At throughout the split again even going back door because now i have the benefit of literally going back to the first five weeks of the split and washing it through and a lot of. Dsm success has been through him some through something atop lane. But i think that there's a larger load for speaking to carry as well. Gm so nine. I'm not comparing it to him. I'm saying that. I'm not comparing it to fudge because i've i've already said multiple times that i has had a lot to carry but i think the impact that speaker had throughout the split was just a little better saying sorry really quickly just to clarify are you saying. Tsm's heavier for speaker than noted that okay said no to that that you're making it more. That's why i asked for clear for patient. I misunderstood so. There is a request for clarification. You were able to clarify for me thank you. All right we Shall we continue speaking. Good yeah speaker and fudge good. Apparently in both your speaker martin and ask you love. Rank speak over fudge or fudge over speaker odd. God speaker be straight and bus in no kizzie. There you go. I think that really sums it up man. Well what would you What do you want to say before. We take a quick break. Yeah good good. They're they're really good. Great child think they give very well manual for the call and we'll catch the next time later. I feel bad for emmanuel. 'cause he did just come back come immediately after an already done already like discussion that we had on the mvp boats so we had to double down on the vote and on top of that in my opinion take with the thanks the episode. This is the episode that everybody's gonna be talking about mvp stuff. I don't think it's bad to have backed mak. Mvp conversations that's bad. I feel bad for him. Because like i when i pull. People generally member like what topics. I've pulled already. You know and then when i go into the waiting room and i'm like hey you're up next. What's your topic. I don't remember exactly because there's like six people. And i'm doing the whole show you know i don't remember which topic aligns with which person so i'm like. I know i haven't mvp topic in here. And so when the first person goes i'm talking about just zika or impact. Mvp as like. Oh i guess this is my mvp. And then it wasn't and i got bamboozled by the first guy and then the second guys like wait. My was my topic now. I'm screwed. And i'm like yeah my bad listen. It wouldn't be. The show's all about casts. You know we embrace it here on hotline league. You'd watch something else and you know what else we embrace mountain dew. Game fuel a delicious beverage that you can find at gainesville dot com says travis and if you use code travis you'll say five percent on your order which is fantastic This is the charge orange storm flavor. There's a variety of different flavors which you may be interested in trying including a mountain dew flavor if you like mountain dew But there's something. I believe for everyone and by going over to gilda comes travis. You're an an ordering case you're going to help continue the show because While mark might say that he treats the show this is i think in the pre show conversation but mark might say that he treats the show like friendship. I still have to pay him to To appear on the show you know. So there is a business aspect to it and in order to compensate him I get revenue from Sponsors of like mountain dew game fuel and then once every eight months wants The amount has accrued to a point where it's financially disastrous to me. He sends me an invoice. That is literally so much that i can't send it and i have to send in multiple transactions And i couldn't Pay him if it wasn't for mountain dew game fuel this is a little more unique shows. the ones that i've done talking six figures they snakes i there are there are There are limits that financial institutions pit on certain transactions. And i would say that mark builds it to where i guess making too much wishy sent me an invoice more often anyway Sorry sponsor plug is getting a little personal going into areas. That i should be. Let's get back to the product which is about india game. Feel victory in a can go grab some. It's i love it. It tastes great by the way only ninety calories which is going to be far. And that's if you wanna zero calorie version. They have that as well. But if and that's what mark drinks but if you are more rotund like me know if it regardless. If you're looking for an energy beverage that is lower on the calorie count And maybe still in the regular version. You can get that only ninety calories on the on the game feel Beverage so thank you so much to mountain dew. Game fuel for sponsoring the show and Please go purchase and use code travis. So that i can afford to pay mark zimmerman the money that he demands for me Razz now left and we miss him so much to get next caller to what is his signature What are the signatures that he has his his chair. I don't know what signatures the c. d. it looks like seniors right around the thing rather this team's flames or the signature or do you have do people signet. Sign your chair other planes flying okay. They are playing ticket. Sorry dan did. I know not know something about this out. Be selling instantly. It looks like silver sharpie. That's why i was confused. Okay thank you to Flyweight stealth black. Ll cho- v. Wow choice wants air subbing the show. That's great be crow. Twitch land shark more for gifting five subs very generous of them and smoke dog for the twenty seven months. Told me to take my glasses. Then i can't see it's not that bad but it'd be a little blurrier freesias here freezing where you calling from. I'm calling from fairfax virginia fairfax virginia. What do you on the show. yes the my take. Was i think that this weekend. I think team liquid is going to be cloud nine I think there's a few reasons for that The main one being that they're going to have an extra week of scrimmage with the full team most importantly santorin joining after his extended breaking. I watched the interview to travis kind of influence. This take a bit. But i already kind of felt that but this kind of helped secure that i guess. Well i'm very curious Why i keep people earlier flaming me for saying very cares all the time. I'm very curious how why you have more confidence in them because we just saw them yesterday. Play each other and clinton i know for sure and i think so considering that centurions first weekend back he only had one week of scrimps with the team even with the game that core. Jj played worse than usual. I still think he played well. It is not you know his close to mvp self. I think he had one of his more off. Games tactical looked fine. He got caught out once in mid game In considering all of that it was still a really close game in team. Liquid had a lot of chances to win that game cloud nine came out ahead. Deserved to win that game But that that plus another couple of other points including i think i'll fiery is better than fudge pretty solidly al-farsi got robbed at. Mvp last split in my personal opinion. I'm pretty high on him. Just as a player. I think he can one be nine any game that he's placed into cleaner more consistently so i think that's that's a that's a big part of it as well. I like to stick rows. You like this. But your big fudge stan. Yeah i mean like. I think i said somewhere. I don't remember where. I said that. I had cloud nine winning. But that's because once again like cloud nine. Ti we actually just don't know what they're gonna look like when they actually get to the best of five because both of these teams of like change improved pretty drastically deal because they literally just got center in the final week. So and then they staunton the first two games one Another one versus evil geniuses. In like i have a lot of stock into those games. 'cause even when santorin came in was this entering that made that team better. I mean tactical encourage. Jj literally popped off in those two games and In the lula game. Johnson literally camped consistently but played really well around it. And then i'll finally put like the team just look like they were online and so is it farfetched for me to think that l. will come into that series in win that series and actually be much better. Go back to spring split Finals performance. Like yeah it can happen. Do i think that's gonna happen right now. I would say no. Because i've had too much faith through all split long in both cloud nine anti l. and i've lost prediction both For the faith that it will come back before. And i'm putting my foot down now is gonna win god damn it whereas you said t. l. can come back to spring split finals performance in spring split finals. They lost yeah. I know i know but at least the team around them. Oh you lost was mostly talking about with the intended roster because at that finals. They didn't even have their intended roster right that they they had our mail on that one so like the fact that they even got there is impressive enough. They can get to that point. They just have a very little time to do it. If i can add one part on top of that. I think that. I'm not. I never really said they're gonna get back to spring finals level but the reason i don't think they're going to get there either. One is because the short amount of time with their full roster yet also. Because i don't think they need to get their cloud. Nine isn't where they were in spring finals. I don't think a lot of people are I don't think a lot of people were expecting them to cloud nine to win finals. Maybe get finals. But i don't think it's the majority opinion that they're not the number one seed you know. They definitely not playing as well. Perks especially Kinda kinda underperforming to where he was on the g. tube. gt days. So i think with a combination of this extra week of screams with santorin again this again personal take. I think i'll far is extremely good. Better than fudge. i think. Perks and jensen. This split are about even perks a little bit. Better tactical i think has quietly been extremely solid. This flint is probably my third or second. Best eighty carry in the week core. Jj is core dj. If he doesn't play off he's gonna play amazing. So i think combining all that with c-9 not as being good in spring. I think i. I really can see team winning the series. Here's the worst thing about this. Oh yeah mark. Hasn't said is point but like the worst thing about this. Is that just in this split. Hasn't performed that well and agree. I agree and also will there's that aspect of it and then there's also the aspect of like tactical gordon. Ajay also have an ad like the strong performance. This split. i don't know about like yeah anyways but all that doesn't really matter like the first seven weeks of the split early. I'll say six weeks of the split doesn't really matter to the recent discussion. About how will they look playoffs. So i have no fucking clue At the moment. I'm leaning towards cloud nine because they literally looked better in week nine in that in that game and there I like the place that they have a lot more than i would. Let's say team liquid So it's one of those things route. Say right now. That's where they are in terms of rate of improvement. Or you're hitting on outraced. I'll still go cloud nine so it's our. I'm still going that direction. Why i think what's interesting is Oh mark hasn't said his take yet but anyway what. I guess i'd say is interesting. Is that team. Liquid is only screamed with santorin for four days before they got into the their last. Weekend's game so it's interesting because they definitely have perhaps further they can progress even though it still only one more week. They'll have literally twice as many screams with santorin to be getting into a better place. Oh mark go ahead. sorry. I know you were going to say something. This is good. We can say by to freezing just on the show. One more thing i wanted to say. Here's say i'm on the cloud. Nine train dive. Sounds like it runs on the cloud. I trained. I was one of the certain about it. I said three to nine. I think i agree with some of the points about like individual players on team liquid in multiple positions. You could say playing better Bottling i think vulcan might actually be a little bit inc. Let's close by. I think tackles veterans van toppling. You've been playing longer al farhi. When he's on forms of nuts mostly leaning you could say is better team. Play stuff i dunno. It's very very close. And i'm not quite on the full like team. Liquid hasn't beaten the top team yet. This split argument. Would you hear a lot. Because they've only played four games of their actual starting roster out of what was it thirty. Five thirty six can't do math. three round. Robins nine seven whatever the fuck anyways. They've hardly played with their starting roster's one of the least rauscher's they actually play with but equally. You can't just ignore the fact that they haven't started many fucking games together. They haven't actually played that much together. And so like they don't have like the same senator. They'll even though cnn struggling doing some weird stuff to You know it's like they're in a of likud has like a ton of practice the other so for me. I think it's really close. I think it really depends on. Also what shows up you know are are they to also have a playoff buff. Because they're another team that's not playing at their peak right now so isolated any fucking way too seriously predict this game. Well there you go a freezing. No i i basically. I think it's definitely really hard to predict. I'm just kind of shocked that no one is voting for t. l. everything i've seen on twitter. Reddit twit streams everybody thinks is gonna win and i just i don't it seems like it's a slam dunk for them. I completely disagree with that. I think that we've seen what t. L. can do. We've seen a cloud nine can do i think tales come out ahead but i really do think it's a toss up. I don't think it's such a slam. Dunk everybody's making it out to be is If t. l. doesn't make it two worlds there will be no liquid. Update ali's cherry now. She's she said about it. Yeah love the liquid update good time. Hey l. cut back. Thank you so much for the call anything you wanna shut up before we wrap up the show Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate the guys time Santa was right. It was disrespectful Leave it at that vote. Okay you just drop in that one in leaving calculator. Thanks for all right. That is the show mark. Zimmerman what do you got for us these expression watch. Watch the dive tomorrow to see. Why look like this heightened. i think you should. It's a good look anything else. Mark no you should also is the mark. I it's all you buddy margie. Scher you know how it is guys. Elsia has playoffs catch me. They're also twitter. You can catch me. They're only sometimes. Because sometimes i also get hit by the dmz police And also another thing this or that just this week lesser that. Yeah so like obama goes on vaca- it is it is guys so you know it's razzle plasma got to come in and do as part of the team So watch that when it comes out. That's about it. I would twitch stream. But i just don't dream anymore and people who are still subscribed to me i apologize shouted to razz for helping me and vienna last week with a A sponsored stream. That was very nice. Thank you razan. Thank you for always coming on the show I we have a i have. I did like ten interviews this past weekend. So there's gonna be a ton of stuff dropping on the channel in fact. Don't leave the stream yet. Because i'm going to be airing some of those interviews on the stream right after this just for fun kinda show stuff off and we won't even due for release the first one. I'll give you guys a freebie. We won't even do a sub goal. Also shout to cycle of gland which is a book series. That i've been reading a lot of lately. I'm back into reading. So maybe we will. Maybe we'll see something heading the book channel soon. I know i've been saying that for seven months or so but It's it's been good to to do some reading. but yes dick around afterwards. thanks mark thank you razz. Thank you And we are. Yeah every seven mark. Just say thank you to meet. So i said it was like what am i saying that was. I was a little uncomfortable. I will We air the show every seven. Pm pacific on mondays. So be sure to tune in We love having everybody in the tweet chat. Everyone and twitched at so nice and supportive and never rude or disparaging and It's also available as a podcast on spotify and other inferior podcast platforms not all influenced by the fact that i've apu- spotify original. That's been highly. Thanks everyone for watching kitchen next week.

peter north america manziel mark mark Marc fudge Razan mark teo antezana eg peter marcon nintendo ontario mark scotto rask california twitter Raza travis bernie sanders casey clark
League Rundown - Episode 370: Frozen 3 to 1

League Rundown: A league of Legends Esports Podcast

1:51:06 hr | Last month

League Rundown - Episode 370: Frozen 3 to 1

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There's an incredible four thousand k. Led spotlight on it to really help you see exactly what's going on down there a whole bunch of different guards to give you the desired tramlink that you might want. And if you've been thinking about manscaping already jumping in now would be an awesome way to support our show and again the rest of the term force network. Don't let your balls get hard stuck in d. to get twenty percent off and free shipping with the kotei force at manscaping dot com. That's twenty percent off with free shipping at manscaping dot com and the code t force t. f. o. r. c. e. Unlock your confidence and always use the right tools for the job with manscaping. This episode of the league rundown is brought to you by moxie and zen checkout moxie and zen dot com slash t force or just use the code t force for twenty percent off of your order premium. Inexpensive boxers made from bamboo to help wick. Away sweat leaving your lane. Feeling fresh compared to the rest none of them will keep you as comfy as moxie and zen for your shots single win the game by game biking biking biking site learning school. Hello and welcome to episode. Three hundred and seventy of the league rundown slash lockdown brought to you by the trinity force network. This is the summer. Lcs round one playoff review round to preview and the l. e. c. round one playoff preview. This episode is lovingly entitled frozen. Three two one. I'm your host. Sean to tuffy i'm joined today by three esteemed co hosts. We have jacks which dot tv slash jackson. We've got badger. I would like to say that. I'm on cloud nine but i don't know if that means is a good thing right now it means you gotta play an extra aratu playoffs worse. We got bickel third new record there. It is slowly making your way up. It's kind of a bloody thing to be a rundown co host. I think a lot of usurping here or there a little fratricide all i think ultimately in good fun kanga mongoose could not be with us this evening because they're doing stuff within the professional leagues seen something called the jeb. So pretty excited for them. Definitely check out their work and the next week and talk to you all about his own experiences and everything else as we really jump deep into the playoffs and as things are happening in the amateur and the academy seen right now as we speak right news top of the hour. Let's talk elsaesser mixing things up a little bit because l. p. l. playoffs do start this coming weekend while elsie k wakes weights one more full week before their own playoffs begin but the has something to offer all of us. In exchange in fact they announced a new sponsor f. A what a coin based is that what it's called cryptocurrency based exchange. Yeah it's crypto exchange app. This is very interesting because only what a month and a half ago maybe longer than that god. I don't know what time is three months this point. I don't know. I think it was was hsun or was it may when they announced it it. That's a we'll take it. What if it was the beginning of june. June fourth is when they sign the deal. There you go is the much-maligned at least for a short period of time announced sponsor for tsm that was worth multi millions of dollars and was going to be banned from broadcast by riot games due to specific restrictions regarding the broadcast regions in which their games are broadcast specifically for league of legends and valerie and then the goes ahead and Signs their own deal with fte x. By the way back in january there were some tweets from the f. t. ceo and president. About how much. He absolutely adores league So i think we can see why specifically this is where his money is going pretty cool overall that it's fat fat deal for a large period of time. If you guys watched this weekend has already made its way onto the broadcast and it is localized so it is going to be part of the actual individual broadcast themselves that are oriented towards particular locales since and cryptocurrency in. General is legal north america. No problem with throwing f. T. x gold lead any other sort of gold really specific events in the game. I just wanna say while. I'm not a fan of the f. T. x. gold lead branding it the same as like the revenues. Thank you very much gold advantage. Get it rate. I don't pay i. I hate all of that shit. I love having the gold advantage shown on broadcast in part of the broadcast. You i because then you don't have to mental math. The two teams gold to try to figure out how far ahead one team is over the other before. Guess seriously practice knowing what sponsors didn't have the money to put it together like little two hundred fifty pixel box. That's on the top of the screen. We can't we can't do it unless someone's shovels us like one hundred million dollars. Subtraction is really difficult. Him an an excel sheet is literally the foundation for like ninety nine percent of the world's economies and one little change could totally fucked something up to san clue excel can't make playoffs. There clearly. Microsoft needs to sponsor the and have an excel goal difference in lic region. I don't care israelis. I just wanted to go. I think after the success that had had an lcs this weekend i think more regions will start taking it on didn't l. p. l. already do this though l. p. l. has individual gold totals almost showing a lot of the time on the side for each player. You can consider. Its don't leave. I'd like it. However we are continuing to take more real estate outside of the actual viewing experience of the the league game itself and the l. Does that with their gold graph. And i think there's you gotta find a nice middle ground. I liked the goal differential overall. Especially right now. Team fight meta in a lot of as the team fight the team. Gold really does have a pretty significant impact versus individual so anyway more money more money going in the first cryptocurrency thing. That right is allowed very locale specific. We're going to see. I think this kind of evolve and grow who really knows the cryptocurrency is here to stay seven years from now when this deal runs out. There's so many different things in the pipe works for a lot of different nations. So we'll find out Things we did find out this past week the lcs all pro teams were announced. And your first team. Jacks would you like to announce the all pro first team according to the players coaches and quote unquote analysts as well as media. Suddenly so number one. All pro team for the has fudge in top lane speaker in the jungle juice zika in the midland fbi is the kerry and core jj as the support. All right instant reactions here. Badger hit me by players. Five different teams. I think all of them are well deserving. I think the only one that really sparked too much of a debate was the core. Jj who he wants. Just because i think they were like what ford was like somewhere between four and seven points off i think four between who he encouraging seven and total between core. Jj who he and volkan and so. We always have to preface this with our listeners. This is regular season. This does not take into account the playoff games. That just happened This was announced right before the playoffs as well to really though coordinated a really showed why he was deserving for first steve all support. We'll get there down the line. I think a big issue people into we'll get into it is there were will in particular one specific support. People felt got robbed. We'll get there in a moment actually to moments second team bickel. You want to talk us through that. sure thing. In the top line we have impacts in the jungle. We have closer. Midland butlin danny and support. Who i mean pretty damn good as well. I think the argument. We've already talked about support and i team. I actually think there's just as good an argument between impact and fudge particularly in the split fudge definitely had the narrative to go with but impact has been fantastic as a top liner an e. g. is the team. That's on fire as we end the summer split as well but pretty good all around. You've got closer naba yoga. They're together as they are in the rift. You've got danny the rookie jumping all the way up here to second team. That's insane. I don't know if it's fully deserved but you have. Eeg players now. Making up three of the players. So three of their five players are here in the top three. That's pretty pretty special. I think arguably the only reason you don't see contractors. Vince scaring here is because they split a lot of time together but they were both very very good. And then no ignore. And i honestly couldn't tell you why because i thought he was actually very very good and pretty instrumental a lot of things but vulcan inc also super super instrumental and those the difference between those players and the ones even below them very very small thirteen. I'll say having four hundred thieves members says a lot about how they kinda grew as a team over the course of acquiring one player and then getting into the point that they are at this point and so thirteen thirteen badger. Okay yes you are. Thirteen is whom he blabber poe tactical in volk in. Wow yeah so one of those players on this list. Cata sprinted a little bit this weekend yeah. I think we'll talk about that. Once we get to those games bickel. I want your take i In regards to blabber speaker enclosure were like miles ahead of every other juggler. I speak one hundred thirty points. Closer had ninety blabber had like twenty eight like there was no consensus third juncture in in terms of support for jj who he in vulcan were neck and neck and neck and i think ignore was right behind them in that pack. There was no like standout first team. Second team third team support well-deserved there a lot of supports playing out of their mind. I mean i'm a big who he stand. I thought he played really well but then he had some games. Where sprinted it core. Jj team liquid number to talk about. They look this weekend but he's like the backbone in the brain of this team as it fell apart in terms of roster over half of their split right in fact technically speaking. They didn't have their full team outside of two weekends so the fact that they did as well as they performed you know you could. You could argue. It's part of the. It's the core of the team that really mattered. And that would be our boy. Jj so now that we've talked about all three rosters. I wanna point out. The one player that i think is a glaring. How is player. Not on any of these rosters. Sorry pete implants just don't think he played enough. I think i think just having jenkins for more games than anything else like especially like since the first half our game was as we hit was the was and then he came in and it took him a little bit of time to readjust get back into the system and flow of things and everything like that was. I think it makes sense to have Fudge impact in houdini fair. I just wanted to point out how weird it is to have someone that many people are saying is the best top later in the league right now. Not in the top three on the. But it's fair bickel. So i think when looking at this it gives us a pretty clear idea of how the to unannounced awards of rookie in the split in. Mvp are going to go. You have one rookie on that list. Chances are he's rookie the split and it's nearly year. I guess he does only have one split to his name so i think he will be enough either. It's hemmer blaze. It's him ablaze. Olive like that's just all it comes down to and if your number one team only has one player in the first team all pro or the second team all pro you know who the mvp is. That's a reasonable gysi. uk argument. But i think there's a speak argument. And there's a fudge i had so this closure for down i had speakers my mvp as number two. I think those three could be deserving. This is pretty good. i think pretty solid list overall. There's actually a difference if you do all just the pros and cannot remember for the life of me with the i was for that but i think impact replaces fudge impact. He replaces court. Jj it was okay. I can remember who. He or vulcan record jay. Okay so there's the argument there that both of them have kind of the media narrative going behind him and that's why they ended up there but still pretty deserving also you get in the top three here pretty fucking good like let's be honest. This is pretty awesome. He's some you make three teams that look like this. Those are really fucking good teams all right and now for my favorite portion which is the coach of the split This is something which. I think has a little bit less controversy in recent memory because there have been actual claims distinctions made by certain media personalities. And even some of the on air talent where they don't even pick the coach they decide. Hey you know. I don't feel comfortable knowing exactly what. The coach does with an any given teams environment. So we're simply not gonna votes the set a lot more outsized voting coming from the players themselves. Who probably just have better insight to what each individual. Excuse me. Individual coach does even if they're not on the same team because all these guys are for the most part friends they all chat together etc. And i think something that comes as no surprise to anyone who watched this split evil geniuses. Peter motherfucking done came away with the coach of the split extraordinarily well-deserved. This is a team that looks so different than it did. Just a year ago or even a split ago. The growth of this team has been immense the direction they've gone the ability to they've really create for themselves to lean into particular style and just run away with many parts of the league with it has been really fun to see and to see them. Be just so different than everyone. Else's well huge props to peter dunn the spice organization for years later continues to put out some incredible incredible talent. I just think it's how much they were able to. Just figure out by being like okay. We're going to get this rookie. Eighty carrion. he's going to be able to to potentially take over games and we're going to figure out just uk and then the the six the six man with double jugglers is so pivotal. What it comes to the best of five series. Didn't even mention that. This may be the first time. We've actually seen a double jungle work anywhere. Lic lcs s. l. p. o. Honestly when they had and contracts. I wasn't rosser. Was super underrated. Because i think they they did the whole seven man roster thing and the problem was it was seven man instead of six man. So you couldn't take that internationally. And have the golden glues vince scare and and then the contract's jensen lineups play in the same tournament and golden blue. Basically went as a player coach. Almost i think that's part of the hits against it. Is that when you see contract sub in for spin you're now expecting. Oh this is a different look like. You're not seeing something super. You're not seeing the double saab and be like okay these to play together like this. You're seeing contracts and okay one player difference and they're looking this good with it and that's really to me. What sparked the peak conversation about. Wow like this is really working really well. And we've seen other. Like i'm thinking specifically elsie k constantly tries some sort of to jungle thing that was like t. one style for three years of mediocrity. Who was trying to find one juggler. Who would fit and so is less of a six man roster and more of like hey please just one of you jugglers workout. And that's i think the big benefit here is even with the c nine like the swallow. It was fun. But i don't think it actually had great success rate. I think it was good but like not particularly better than the other one bickel still t- one style. They were in three jugglers and spring in the running to in summer i said three years of mediocrity and i'm counting just from two years ago so the train here. That's fair. yeah. Peter done well-deserved unfortunately are a hometown. Favorite jimmy jimmy harrison harrison. Not really in. The running here did kind of faded real real fast especially post doc until acadian really got rolling with this team. And we'll talk about that in just a few minutes here l. p. l. finished the regular season playoffs start on thursday l. c. k. Like i said before as one week left of game so two games about for each team before playoffs but the l. p. l. bickel playoffs this thursday. There's like three thirty five teams in the l. p. l. who actually made it into playoffs. What's important to know. Important things to know before i get into the teams that made playoffs. I wanna touch on just one two. Maybe three that didn't so first off. Victory five everybody knows the team that didn't make it zero sixteen. No wins the. Do it run the perfect split that they did a few years back. They did it again. This one pains me. Invictus gaming did not make playoffs. This may be the last we see of two of the greatest players of all time in rookie in the shy. And it hurts me just immensely. Jd gaming the team. That was the second seed of the l. p. l. lessees amid quarter-finals. Went up against suining. Went head to head against don juan in groups. They don't make playoffs despite running the exact same roster. Apparently you need about lane to win. Majnoun and Just team people might be interested in. Everyone knows shadow from mad lions. He joined l. g. d. This split the missed it by once. They came into eleven the top ten make it. He looks really good. I think him and you're going to be the foundation of lgbt. Come they go so fingers crossed for them. Let's touch on the actual playoffs. Holy shit stacked confusing hell. Yeah so the l. p. l. has modified keva hell bracket so basically. There's a topside bought side and they both branch down until you get to a final four that becomes a double elimination f- px and edward gaming where the top two seeds of the regular season they auto quality qualify for the double limitation bracket as one to. Everyone remembers. Orange was struggling. They were one in five coming out of msn. Look oh no what's happening. They bounced back like hell. They went on a nine game win streak and finished the regular season in fourth place and are looking hot and on fire they finished fourth so they will be on the same side as fun plus phoenix you know what else is on that side of the bracket toppy sports with doing fantastic split on px. Probably the best midland there. A man contesting him is night. It didn't show up world's last season but he did something a lot of people didn't think was possible. He broke mearns so local record. Marin held the record for thirty one solo kills in forty four games night got thirty. Five solo kills in thirty eight games. Direct was said and twenty thirteen as way fifteen. Two thousand fifteen so he got a long time ago four more solo to start that side of the bracket you have allergy versus shooting ellen g tarzan from griffin fantastic juggler. Suining last year's world finalist. All those are on the same side of the bracket bottom sign the bracket you have itchy in the double elimination round before them rare. Adam it is a team that has been underestimated. continued to pop up their main. Show-offs are i boy who used to be eighty care for e. g. in two thousand eighteen worlds where you may remember from and fo fo a former midlander from the lms now pcs after that second round be lg. Billy billy. They took the foundation of the five. That was good and made them better by giving them. Eighty carry aiming to pre god. Pp got amick fantastic. Bottling aiming has a great split here in israeli reason. This team is succeeding. The high school janitors favorite do. Oh by the way. Amy moving on you have w iverson. Gw has probably. The most underrated bought lehner in the league in breathe. The man is a monster arguably top three despite how stack a talent pool is. Omg has a standout rookie and cream. He makes assassins. Look flashy basically we have to make double limitation. You wanna see shawn. Breathe is what i really wanted prince to become. Yes i really liked prince when he came out two years ago and looked phenomenal and then just completely hard fell off. So fingers crossed for breathe. So the way the l. p. l. works. Is you win the summer playoffs. You go towards if you have the most championship points. You gotta worlds the four. That are left after that had to originate to jail. Now sir do regional gauntlet to qualify for world's f- px r. n. g. edward gaming in rare adam have all already qualified for the world. Qualification regional finals. That leaves two spots between toppy sports. Soothing billy billy w. e. l. g. Omg this region is stacked. Everyone mostly agrees that f. Px looks like the best team in the world right now doing b.'s. Playing out his mind this fbi px looks better than they won world. This is doing b.'s. Best split ever period full stop. Orangey reigning champions back on form their terrifying. Edward gaming has been consistent as all hell and has a fantastic bottling in mako. Inviter this those are the three teams. Everyone agrees is likely going to worlds. That last spot is up in the air and anybody can take and i'm so excited. This can be a some good shit. If y'all are up late you should definitely be checking this out. There are fewer matches really that you have to keep up with right now over the weekend. We've got some time watch for the first matches on thursday. You could also watch odds as well. That's that's what i mean. You know you got to. You got some time on a saturday. Yeah pop on some some l. p. l. playoffs. You will not regret it. All these teams left has something to offer first game once again on thursday but if we wanted to watch the later galette is day one day and then the next one. They play again So the gauntlet itself. That'll be a bit after the finals itself. The playoffs are gonna go for a bit. They go at least until I believe beginning of september is probably when the finals are so we got some time for that and for anybody that wants. Just a summary of halley l. p. l. is going if you wanna game to watch wanna series twice saying hey what am i missing f. Px g the two top teams number one number two. They played in the last game of the split. Decide the number one seed. Go watch this. I'm not going to spoil anything but at one point. F subs out there star. Top liner duggary for rookie willingly. It's incenting abso what once again. That's the for l. c. k. We still full week of play left before we see playoffs there. We do have the top six teams though already secured a little different than what we saw over here on the west for both regions where literally came down to the wire we do have live sandbox. Nong shim red force. Donwon t one gingy. A freak freaks are all the l. ck playoff representatives. They do have a similar. Sort of style to qualify. Though for world's isn't that right pickle Yeah so the way the c. k. Works is they also have win. Playoffs go to world's most championships points. Go world's their gauntlet works a bit different. But in the end it is the goal to decide who goes to world's fun fact with the l. c. k. That tops six five of them still have a chance at first place. There's a chance we have a five way tie for first place there. The top four teams alone have the same number of wins. They're both at all. Four of them are at eleven the difference between him and sandbox tied at first and donlon and t. One tied at second is that have played one more game and have one more loss is wild coming down to the wire. Definitely keep your eye on that. We'll talk more about elsie k next week as we approach the actual playoffs themselves. Because we got some stuff to talk about here. And i'm eager to get to it but before we do we've got something else we've got some more praise to lot it over in the eastern regions badger. There's a particular team who may or may not have done what we should be probably calling a reverse victory five. The hell is happening so psu talent in case anybody. He hasn't literally been checking in discord in the insert. National journal challenges when eighteen. Oh and previous they. look unstoppable. honestly they're really fucking good so they just finished that up there. I see there eighteen now. Did today even trop a single map. It's best that once. I was the best ones okay. It's expensive one day. Drop a single map. They played wrong number. I think it's likely that they ended up being. I think they're gonna drop one map right within playoffs like it's probably on 'cause dog i was going to have one game where you just kind of pops the fuck off so they need one so even back. In spring they went seventeen one of the regular season and then perfect playoffs till they come out. Get better than that. And over the course of the entire year of play. Drop one map one game. This is the team that at an international event with a substitute eighty carey made top four. Took games off of mad lines. Took games off of the eventual champions. Orangey this team is better than that team. This is terrifying. This may be best team a pcs slash lms has ever had it's competing with that flash wolves team. I was cries in flashbulbs and like twenty seventeen. Put it out there. They have a team with a world championship to their name. T. p. one world season two now the game very different now. Then but are you going to say. They're better for regular season than a team that literally. One world's from that region. I wanna see the full roster. I do too. That's the big the big kicker. We still didn't get to see this team play internationally. This year i think chance making it out of groups. Yeah there's there's like did other teams across the world right now that i could see making it out of groups in worlds. Just you gotta figure out. Who's drawing hill. There's going to be a group with an l. p. l. seed in elsie k. seed. Nps g talon Clever is gonna get stuck on air with them and own six again. It's going to be the number one seed. Oh gosh flash. Tsm it's going to be tsm two zero six. That'd be would be so unfortunate for them to draw the hardest group in probably world's history. I want to say what's the craziest thing to me is that. Ps cheese looking this incredible and with all the rumors were hearing about for the past like just a couple of days. they're about to sign the greatest footballer to ever play the game in messy so things are getting even crazy. I wanna push back. Badger said that we need to move on fanatic orangey s. Kt in the same group in two thousand eighteen. Yeah but it also depends on which lc which because of team. Because i'm just saying. I can't imagine a harder group than that win fanatic. Was that good. That's season that was by far the hardest group that has ever. That was actually a really good. That's a good one. But i think this one has a chance if with. Ps g insert elsie. K team insert p. team. And if it's like any you team like if we get something spicy like a g two. Could you imagine gee to in this group. That would be like i would want to be a three three across the board and then have to tie-break full the. Oh my gosh. I think i love this so much. But we're definitely getting a little bit of yourself so we got some other stuff to cover here including the return of an e you mainstay visit. Chachi is actually returning slightly to the professional scene. He announced that he was actually joining mad. Lines themselves as the top lane coach Which is really fun. 'cause chachi coming from you oh l. and now coming back to help out splice which is where the original team he also came from. I think this is a really really fun. Dynamic here mad lines of course being branched out from splice just really really cool and armlet is looking stronger as the weeks have gone by or the past two weeks specifically. He's gotten better and better especially last week. We didn't even have to see them. Lose the chachi. Change is going to just elevate him even further. And if you want to elevate your lic viewing activities. You know what you need to. You need to join our league. Rundown community discourse server jump on in. Here we've got llc. And pim's thank you very much to marina and mini quant for putting those together. I think of. We're able to do them last weekend. I don't remember if we got them out. Quick enough for the two games but we're hopeful to get them for this next weekend succumb on test yourselves against the best of the best and also the worst of the worst. Because that's really what we all are. Come join our community in houses. Starting at four thirty on wednesdays usually brought to you our very own mongoose. Depending upon whether or not he's available he is jumping more and more into doing the amateur and academy and other professional circuit here being involved a caster and referee. So it's possible that he may not be available but we do still try to get something going on wednesdays. We've had in houses so come join our fives all in house. Come join us. Play other games as well. Who knows we weren't play. Lego star wars three. Or something fun hell. Yeah bickel you put together the see. All pro voting. I think that still open correct is still open. I'd like to get some more votes in because right now i think we're hovering about ten for the llc and like twenty for the. I'd like to bump that up a little bit. Plus for any people that do watch the elsie k. Or the l. p. l. There's all pro voting for them as well. There you go jump on in make your voice heard we'd love to hear it and on that note we're going to dive in to the most beautiful place on god's green earth a little studio in downtown santa monica where the games are technically not being played because everything is still online. Unfortunately that would be of course c-9 and they were in studio institute. Also we didn't talk about the next week. Oh yeah then being in la instead of yeah jersey since i touch them right now lcs finals. Unfortunately there's this little thing called covert and there's this big thing called the delta variant and everything is spiking up all really the united states over and the world over honestly and just to be safe especially because these teams have to go from the finals over to a world event in china. The lcs's elected not to have the new jersey event. Unfortunately it will all be held in l. a. Instead i don't do they confirm it was in studio. There's no spectators. They will be going to begin giving refunds to everybody. Yes if you ended up buying your tickets really unfortunate sorry. This did not work out but no that right probably now. Has that prudential center still on its radar for the next time. They're able to do some sort of tour and they did learn from last split. They're not doing it outside. Venue they will not be doing that for the finals. Perks may or may not be making the finals. But he no longer can't complain if you bought airline tickets or hotel reservations for the finals in jersey. Try to get those cancelled and refunded. Good luck. yeah. I know a lot of airlines especially but even hotels will cancel you say vid so can sometimes be your magic words all right on that note. Let's talk about this first. Round of playoffs of evil geniuses versus data toss on one side and see nine versus team liquid on the other and we kind of had our expectations shattered honestly for both playoff series. Let's talk about the first one that occurred chronologically and honestly in my opinion the more fun. One e. g. versus dignatories. Who we got everyone. Here got this one. Right for the record checks. I'd love for you to give us the groundwork for this was a three to one for. Eg but was it as convincing as you would have expected. No i think. I said yet last week that this had better be a three o. Or worried about e g going forward Which i will talk about when we start previewing series but this was this entire series was about the middle lane. And that's what we expect like. We expected this to be a middling centric series because zuk as on one of the teams I don't think we expected it to be midland. Centric in the way that it panned out as being been lane centric. I'm still tilted by building a random zealand sitting on it for the entire fucking game as yasuo. I have that in my notes. I think i have a let me go back and check random zeal. yes Still a random zeal. Yes no damage on decio all that stuff. It was great it was a boris was winning. I just wanna point out. He might have been a starcraft fan and was just trying to show his love for pro toss as a zealot so wanna just lay. That out could totally. I'm just assuming he hasn't played yasuo since twenty. Twenty when yasuko used to rush bantam dancer. He played at twice the only word game four. Yeah he should've he did so. I mean it'll big reason. They're throwing him on. Yasuo is because you don't need to hit skill shots you just follow up on your god joan works. Acadian had a fantastic series. Just arend has should acadians caracas. Actually it was like the reason they want game two and the reason that game for was so close because his grog Insane also rally is a really fun champion. I mean we're talking about this mid right now. Yusuf on orillia was good. She that was like he played also in a rally. And then what did he play in. He oh kindred kindred. Game the game to watch the series. If you haven't yet just skip game three do not watch it. It is horrendous fate. God get literally what hit double cs by like the eight minute mark. It's a mid kindred into lucien that i just proves without a shadow of doubt that i don't know why the fuck you pick this lucien like i don't know as a top lane that's all i can say is there was a lane toppling. Oh my god of aside that bickel keep going. I mean what happens when you have a world champion six time world qualifier one time. Msi finalists two times msi qualifier. Four times they'll see us champion against a two-time place play-off qualifier that one in four. Who did i don't know who did fake odd more dirty. The lcs broadcaster impact just brutally sobbing him into the ground for four games. Okay faith odd in game. Four held his own. He held his own in game. Four and that's true. In one of the games got a straight up solo. Kill on impact. That was that was. Because i couldn't remember what they have it in here impacts impact barely survived the second like the first game and he was down twenty seven minutes but then he managed turnaround and actually have a pretty decent impact. Well the you mean. Impact went down in the top line and should around and was extremely powerful and important in the rest of the game. Okay feel like. I've heard this first game. The five man face breaker he got on the double t. p. from both sides i just looked at that i watched that shit and i'm like this series is over like pack it up go next. Let's get to bring him out onstage. I some really interesting. Takeaways came from this series. One damn close to if this there was a skirmish happening on the map dig was the better team digs. Skirmishes were fantastic. Excellent at finding the right pick they great at picking up that. I kill to really start the snowball of a to be two or three v three. The problem became when they could not achieve that. And then eg would show with a five-man squad and other even strength wipe dignatories or be up one extra player and stigmatize never had a chance but win dig found their opportunities. They were great. They actually made some really good hands. Checks up against e. g. I was thoroughly impressed by what i was saying. Any other thoughts. Eg verse dig. I think let's let's say good things about dick because they have to go down. Luckily they do get that second chance. Right bickel i want you talk to me about what is dig. What is there. Good thoughts going into the elimination series. Next week dig held up against one of the best if not the best performing team of the split better than anyone expected yasui was not necessarily the strongest but he had good moments. Mio afro also had their moments. Acadian looks fantastic. Usually want this guy played great but they lost. We mean at this time. Acadian was fantastic. Fake god as we said soa killed impacts. He didn't have all the best games but he did have. Everyone had their moments in. It's exciting because e g is arguably the toughest opponent you're going to run into if you can hold up against eg and now you play mortals that's a whole nother ballgame. I think. I think one of the big things that you can take away from this acronym moon needs to be on engaged support. He can't play. Like the brahms or eddie and chances or anything like that. You have to have him on something that can go in. You have to have him on leona you have to have him on an alistair you have to have him on a recon something like that like you have to have on something that he can go all gas no brakes get in there start. A fight agreed. It's not that his brom necessarily was bad because actually they didn't have enough agency in play making when he played. They need him to be the playmaker for this roster. it's not. He's bad if they don't have other people able to make plays in the way africa make place to kadian him really like god. God's not gonna be the one to find it these sui certainly shouldn't be the one to find it. I should acadian because like his groggy. His groggy engages. Were really good but like that was once that was probably a one time thing is teams will either disband it out or learn how to play against it over the course of the week. I do think one other positive about dig before we dig into. What went poorly. Is there bought lane. I talked last week about how. I really like neo. An afroz had a great split. I thought they both play overall. Very well thought neo was pretty damn good and they gave everything they could in the two v two in the two threes in three virtues as well and the team fights i was pretty pleasantly surprised that they continued to play to perform as well as they did. However they're down here for a reason badger fifteen seconds. What is digging to worry about up against immortals is sui actually against the insanity isn't bad but like zazi could take advantage of the jungle matchup and i do think that revenge is a better top later than fake god because god was exposed besides that one little one little a good leaning phase out his his his minutes one through twelve in game four. Were pretty good but everything else was suspect. Fuck the we'll get into that particular match up in a little bit to really dig deep into it. let's talk about the winner again. Evil geniuses jacks. What are you worried about. After the series kimmy one or two things that you're specifically worried about g honestly. I'm worried that they're going draft. Jews zoo a scaling team fighter. Because i felt like a lot of game two in this series came down to zika on something. Like a zere doesn't do to suitca things at all And it made it really apparent that like they need him to be able to be a solo threat okay. The lack of the south from the midland. Bickel anything to add onto that. I'm curious if they continue 'cause they stuck with contracts this entire series. Do we see him against one hundred days or do they swap back the scare him. Do they try and swap out for a better match up. I think that'll this is a much bigger test. In theory than dig was so. that's exciting. Okay fair enough all right. Let's talk about the next series. We got here. See nine verse team. Liquid. this is one in which we were split fifty fifty. who is gonna win this one and badger. I came out on top. We chose correctly and team ever doubted them and never doubted that. We can't take that away from sealed. Oh team liquid won this series in three one and badger. Was it even close. No i don't think it was. I think i think there was a little bit of trolling in game three. That was going on. But like other than that i think. The t l was like hard gaping them pretty much for the most part blabber was pretty much running down for three of the four games may be part of a four game but like perks. Didn't look good. How far it was top capping fudge lake. It was rough. It was rough if you're a c. Nine fan you definitely are watching that in your dislike shit. This doesn't look good before we go further pickle funny enough. The one player who looked decent or solid for c. Nine was the player they benched earlier. Van looked good. Everyone else did not blabber had his moments and then sometimes when to use a move instead just use splash and it was not very effective. Okay i wanna push back a little bit. Because i felt like this was a way more even series than you guys are selling as while. This was a three one game. Four came down to santo getting a baron. Steel that turned the game around is. Sandra does not steal that baron team liquid loses that game ninety nine percent of the time literally. We would have gone to game five. We would add silver scrapes. You have a game. One two weren't close. I understand that and okay actually. You didn't finish your point. And i will rebuttal on this because i will explain to you. I think the series wasn't close and this was also the series where we got to see the weirdest bottling interactions of any series. We have seen in the west. We're both core. Jj and vulcan. Just say fuck bottling. One of them literally had less than one percent. Do oprah happen. I actually read enough fast. And they mentioned this on the broadcast j. core. Jj had a point four percent dual proximity from minutes. Three to fifteen in the only time. He was there close to him as well when they were taking dragon. And then volkan had six point four percent and that's when van came up for retail than they did a rift herald dance for a little bit of time now what champ specifically was cordial cordial was on hsien so he played a river hsien support and literally left lane at two minutes and twenty two seconds. Because i was curious and went back and watched the and he left after the first candidate after the first kid and he's just like fuck it technical you got the siblings forcible out of the lane. It was the classic like anime dad. Experience there for the birth of his child. And then just gone on an adventure for the rest of the series bottling just became a solo lane we had basically what used to be fairest mid versus zig maiden the bottling. 'cause a lot just because you're in the verse zigzags basically ferris ones the matchup against zeke's pre getting tier las chapter and then after that zig has the porsche so various can easily get like a player. So get a little bit of pressure denies minions but after that i reset when you're able to get your items on newsdays yours yours. The zags is going to push in and he's going start pressuring to it and tactical. Did that just perfectly fine. He was content a-ok just sitting in the bottom line just af k. Farming the entire time and just pressuring the bottom lane whilst vet. It's like if you're going to join your team you're gonna lose your tariffs or you're gonna lose at least two three plates ki l. with al. Dari in centurion looks like a completely different team. It is night in the age and they are a threat. That's i think the biggest positive for us is the difference team liquid had and the way they played and the way they looked in the way they carry themselves from everything. We saw this entire split to what we saw this past weekend. You can pretty much throw out summer. Twenty twenty one team liquid and come into this with a fresh look because they certainly did. This was an aggressive team liquid. They had early game plans. They went for stuff before the fifteen minute. Mark which is not something. We're used to sing for a team. Liquid jersey san tauran back with older. I don't think they did. And they were shellacked the beginning and never really recovered at all throughout the entire series. Which is another reason why i think this is so one. Sided is because yes cloud nine does get that game back in game. Three and yes. They are winning and potentially in the driver's seat for game four but they lead up just off the gas a little bit and team liquid specifically san torn comes flying over the wall to steal back the chance of securing the playoff series itself. This is the t. l. People have been asking for so long proactive. Not waiting on mistakes pushing trying to force the opponents make errors. You are being proactive here. This is what people want to see when you go to an international stage. This is what we've been looking for for so long. And i think t. l. If they can keep this up. it's fantastic. We haven't talked about one player yet on team liquid. We've touched a little bit on fiery not enough considering how hard he destroyed five where we talk about. Johnson this is where we talk about the jensen redemption ark question. Mark question mark. I think this is my god. He's ever played like this is the best stretch of games that he's performed because literally okay so back to my notes first thing i wrote for game one after they drafted was jensen leeson dot dot dot go next and then one thousand four five six lines later put maybe jensen is good at least in because he had this play where you also there was sixty percents. Forty percent perks. Bulking up but Jensen is getting ganked. And he goes in on perks and he plays it makes aggressive place and blabber and blabber and volkan are coming in to gang he kicks perks over the raptors wall and lands the q. Barely by the way he almost missed the. Qe almost fucked up the execution. But we're not going to talk about that. Because he made the play he hit it baby so he hits it. Kicks kicks them over. The wall follows perks across and of course cour-. Jj is right there on leona raid. Follow up to tv too just in case they try and follow up on it and everyone's just like holy shit. Maybe jensen is actually really good characters that we thought he was bad at because everyone was like man. Jensen leeson's can dog shit and then whoa involved. He played really fucking good in regards to jensen. I want to talk about his counterpart perks. That we've always talked about. It's playoffs playoff perks. Big man coming out to play. This is where he shows up. He was not there. He did not look good. He looked. I'd probably say the worst player on his team. He hard gap by johnson. And also wanna ask tenuously. We saw vigo. Get a lot of elaine nervous. Why are they playing him. Top in mid. He's john seriously. I think he'd toppling one just because he was a like fudges had so much comfort and he just needed something that worked for him at this point. Because i'll give dialed on far at this point and he's just like i need to go back to comfort they banned jay's they get gwen out of the picture like those are three of the big picks and they take off the table so he could either gone with like a set o. Gpa was also banned to. I'm just noticing that like there was like six top leaners. Take it off the table at this point. And he's like screaming bottom of the barrel and it's just like we gotta get something that works for him so back to vigo and he actually looked have way decent on it so i just think straight up not even fudges thing i think the top line just kind of works. I think it's okay. Within the like the system that runs up there and the match ups are generally sees but middling it is fucking trash and i fully expect them to pull it out at least once next weekend. Yes i do. And that's my biggest concern here. Is that nine was not a team. That honestly looked behind the meta outside of those first couple weeks when they came back from. Msi but suddenly in this match up. They looked lost completely. Lost i think part of that is we saw a new side of -til drafting. We saw a lot of picks we had not seen from them before. We did not see santa written on much szechuan. I don't think would see tactical on his right this weekend. Yes yucky. we haven't seen zik J. paul up fucking river shannon definitely came into the series. They did their homework. I liked really good. Go ahead no go ahead. I so basically they just look really good. And so we. We're gonna get to the part jacks that. I'm going to defend why the series wasn't close. Because i think the big thing about game one and game two was built such an fte x gold advantage. They were up so they're not paying us. Badgered can make them even. If i want to teo was in game two was up. Six k gold at the eighteen minute mark against a team that is just like we wanna poke. They had it was. That was the various jas lake. Diana weird it was weird. Like we're gonna poke you in. Then we're going to try and engage on new. But they had you know gang fightback back in gin so like you can't get onto that team like that's just the advantages. The -til does build up the entire time from their early game. Aggression everything like that was just so much bigger than c-9 was when they actually won their game and in even in game. Four t l had the advantage in the early game like they were winning the skirmishes they were up like forte. Gold at like the fifteen minute mark so l. Always had the grasp on the series. It's just when they led up the gas a little bit or they did a little bit of quote unquote trolling. I like to say is when c. Nine was able to take advantage of it and get back into the series a little. Jack's i was gonna say the game too was the vigo mid game. Yes it felt like if they just had put parks on either yasuo or that makes sense and putting him on vigo instead is like this is like a worse version of the good one thing. I they did the diana so then you're just basically walked into this point and it's like well shit what supporter we're gonna play. And then at that point leeann is gone. Thrashes off the table. Nautilus has gone. and so you're dislike. Well we can either play like a recon or an alistar or from like. that's it like. They just pinch their support pool so much waiting that long instead of going to the support i for the juggler and a big issue run into specifically in game two with that various and that jas if you are behind on a polk comp you have no cultural yes that's it that's it for you. Yeah i think it's actually not a bad idea though to try your game one to try to do a polk cop because it's one in which if you get a little bit of a league actually persky material is those games and actually kind of crazy thing going back to Spend game one and game two at about the twenty minute mark. When they showed the gold graph was first unsee nine but he was fifth in the game. Al farhi santorin jensen and tactical. Were all ahead in gold in front of every see nine member at that point and it wasn't even close there was at least like a five hundred advantage on Avary member at that point. This is a great series for team liquid and a really really tough one for seni- see nine now drops down. We're gonna talk about their actual match up in a second. But they do. Go up against golden guardians. Jack's c-9 what did you think was. Okay what are some positives about c-9. Coming out of this then stabilize ever vulcan. Looks good when they flip heads blabbering perks did look good at moments but they looked very coin. Flippy okay bickel. Village still knows how to freeze there. it is. There's the freeze all right for your punishment. You're going to have to tell me. What are you worried about foreseen. I if they play like they did against t. l. i get golden cartons. A weaker opponent. You can't do that if you play like that. If perks plays like shift if fudge doesn't show up if blabber inside his ass off golden gardens will punish you ain't you will lose that game and it will once again be no sneaky. No world's though sneaky no world theory go you're just getting in all the good twitch memes here i love it all right. Badger team liquid. You're feeling feeling really high on the horse. I think right now really high in the horse at this point i so the big things with t. l. Coming into this next weekend is if they play the style that they are and tsm doesn't figure it out they can dispatch of tsm. They see nine but we'll have to see how that goes kinda see what coin flips go on and the draft. I mean we talked about the various. At this point. There was a little bit of discussion. The discord mcsherry during the desk by the so you can get my full up-to-date hot takes. Because that's where. I draw a lot of them. Outside of podcasts We i was curious of. Tsn was going to do the zigzag barriers coin flip almost just like having lost play that lane solo against tactical and see how that works out. Because it's definitely but as sean and bickel space just immediately went to full disgust. Look i was expecting him to. I don't think. Gsm is going to force themselves into a situation where sort art is going to try and back up by saying core. Jj the only reason you one world is because you were playing ardent meta or whatever it was. And i'm kinda curious if he plays rome v rome and if we get another like point five or six point seven percent diesel proximity game that comes out from them is like an ego check at some point but i think santa horn core is better than speaker sort are as a roaming jungle support. Do i think. I totally agree with you. I think individually. They're like pretty damn good matchups but the the synergy that was shown between core and sent torn injustice series was instantly better than almost anything we've seen from tsm. They've had some games. Though were essay and speeco were just on point together. And i actually think if you want the best out of both. Tsm and team liquid. You have really low jungle proxima or really low support proximity. I really think. That's actually crucial essays rome's to either create pressure on one side of the map or alleviate it by warnings specific locations is integral to success but korge does the same thing and we disarm absolutely use it to great success. Bickel last point. And then we're gonna move on issue run into is lost is a not a wind condition for tsm. He will not hold up as well against tactical as vended. I think that one v one goes even worse for tsn than it did for cloud nine that agree with that in a big way also. It's a lot easier to make an impact if you pick the zigzag by the way in that matchup if you're stuck out on bottling but you can still toss a bomb halfway across the map. You're still technically involved. That happened a few times from the team liquid perspective. All right t. l. What's one thing you're really worried about. Bickel tell me what you're worried about from tim liquid. What out of this series made you uncomfortable. I think that pretty smooth series. I think the one thing to worry about is they're going up against the best jungle in the league right now and speak up and i think he may be able to match that pressure that san torn brings and if sort is on point like he has sometimes shown throughout the split. I think they are a dangerous combination. That can go head to head with that centurion core. Jj matchup we're gonna find out it's going to be a banger or i get to that in a moment one last thing badger. Promise me you're gonna wrap it up with this. Yeah i just think tied tickle on not utility at this point i could honestly see like an ash coming out for him. Potentially cause ashes kind of good at this point and still too if you wanna play that instead of a virus so if the coin if the burger flipper the coin flip however you want to call it look for tactical to play more utility because if he has to play like a hard scaler like jigs or something like that. I mean caitlin caitlin thrashes. Good but like if play jinks or something like that. It's kinda rough. Yeah i think it just doesn't quite work with team wants to do but we'll find out more going to be really exciting. We've got four playoff matches. Though for the we start off with seventh-place immortals versus the lowest seed dropping out of this second through sixth position. some dignity toss up against immortals. We have a split. Cast here myself in. Badger both actually have immortals continuing their little recent success here from the end of the regular season. Jacks and bickel are sticking with dig despite their loss to evil genius. Just this past weekend. Jack's why does dignity toss beat immortals. Still because dignatories showed a lot of poise that they're actually worthy of having been in upper bracket in their series versus g and immortals. Look like shit. At the end of the season. Fair badger immortals. Why do they win over dignatories. I think this series is going to be really close. It's definitely going to come down to. I think zirk say versus. Acadian is definitely going to be a big matchup for this one. And i think has been the better juggler throughout the entire year. And i think that zirk say being better than acadian and then Revenge being better than fake. God going to be a lot and then raisin destiny are going to be able to hold their own against neo afro. And they're going to figure out the draft and things are gonna go out well for them that that to me is the most surprising part of it is that you would say that bought lane which i think has struggled heavily when not playing pigs would actually match to you neo and afro who played. Eg spot lane. Almost tit for tat. See i think easy easy lane is bad lane but like once they get out on the map and they get everything going like i think raising destiny is fine and like the tv too but like once they get out the team fights and stuff like that. It'll be a little bit more interesting. But i just think that like the difference as well as like guilloux in the back room compared to i don't mean to slander are boy but jimmy harrison educators. Don't you get his name out of your mouth. It'll be interesting. It's definitely i think that wants to be a five-game banger. Though so i think a big thing like you said is going to be that bottling but i think raising destiny are awaited coin. But they're waited tales. They have hop off moments. They'll have some loans can some of the best in the league where they go toe to toe and they win but then they also have games where they enthusiast off and sadly those games happen a lot. More than we'd like. I think in a game that could go either way. I can't put my trust in them to carry it out in the best of five and i think dignity tosses learn their lesson in they're gonna put Afro more on those engage champions that we wanna see okay more than fair the trump on over to the next match we have last place. Eighth placed golden guardians literally making it in by the skin of their teeth in the victory of another team entirely and the final game of the regular season squares off against homeboy cloud. Nine cloud nine obviously dumped out of that top six contention. I have cloud nine. Jack says cloud nine bickel has cloud nine. Badger has golden guardians all right. I'm gonna kick us off here. Cloud nine is just a better team. I fully expect a team of this veteran talent and this giant backroom staff that they have to see what happened in this past week and go. Wow we were fucking off. We were wrong. There's some things we need to retool. We need to fix. We do not have a right. Read on how either to use our own strengths or how to play against what might be coming up this next weekend. I think they already play well enough against the style that going to give to them. I don't think there's anything. Golden gardens does spectacularly well. And the only thing that i'm really worried about if i'm cloud nine going into this is are we gonna get another tales perks for an entire series. And is that going to hurt us enough. If a ball of is the one who's getting ahead. And then you gotta look at the top line and say wow fudge you got absolutely shit on bio ferrari however liquorice is no al faris and outside of that very first weekend with golden guardians as had maybe one game otherwise i thought he looked good other than that he has gone from either shit on completely to spectacularly average cloud nine has a lot going for them. I think actually the thing they need to worry about in terms of blake. Maybe something that's not fully. Everyone's radar is that bottling the golden gardens bottling chime has been better over the past couple of weeks he's definitely improved law and i'm always going to point this out. I stick say as that needed damage source has been excellent. He is staying alive constantly and team fights and pumping out shit tons of damage and is a big reason. Why golden gardens was winning. A bunch of these later team fights is that going to happen consistently. I don't know. I think seeing i'm used to be aware of it and draft around that possibility because that's how golden guardians wins is. They stall out long enough. They get into a team fight and they're able to clutch it out all right badger. Why does golden guardians the eighth-place team. Who once again made it in solely. Because another team beat the former eighth-place team beat our msi representative cloud nine featuring first team all american top later in fudge and perks literal. Not world champion go. You're making it sound closer that it actually potentially has the chance to be why. Msi whatever you can think of adjustment. Can you see and you can point at from this cloud nine coaching staff in the last six months. That would say that they are ready to come into this. I have i. This may be a hot take. But i have zero confidence in this cloud nine coaching staff. Meanwhile on the other side you've seen a narrow a coach who's got nothing to lose on the other side of this coin that has taken the team that is now a hundred thieves and pretty much all of a hundred thieves and dog and whatever he took this team and led them to an upset spree. Almost to the point that this team made fucking world slash here. I just don't think that. I think that a narrow is going to be able to come in week off. Look at the tape. Be able to figure out what signs weaknesses are from those four games against team liquid. What goes well for them. What doesn't go well for them. What can we play. We've got potential rookie of the year and blow of we've got liquorice who is at one point the best toppling or in north america. We've got iconic rising up jungle superstar potential in the making because he has a chance to with this team and like china's looking good like you said chiming sticks have been looking good. This team is poised on prime form to potentially make an upset against a team. That i don't think is actually that good if if this is the meta that we're playing right now. This skirmish team fight heavy. Whatever i don't think blabber can hold up in this blabber too much of a coin flip. So i listened to i watch next level. If you watch the next level with media's great show by the way when you go into it he was always talking about. How zika was this whole home stock so homey sock is a term in malay where you just give a stock to your opponent for free like a friendly kind of thing. Blabber is new homey socks when it comes to the shit if you get into a skirmish get into a two a three b three three before three whatever it is and bladders and fall with it. He's going to give you a kill no matter what you are given a free kill anytime. This guy looks for a or he's gonna fuck up to the point that he's going to kill one of his teammates. I just think the golden guardians come into this and they're going to upset. I think i genuinely think golden guardians three one. I just don't think nines able to make an adaptation. And then you're gonna see this losser. Roster get liquid is besides fudge all right golden guardians team ownership. You know our bake account. Make sure you make a deposit before the weekend That was your featured talking points. Here thank you to badger Which was maybe the most impassioned defense of an eighth place team we've ever seen. I just think they're going to. I think they're going to win. I generally am not convinced by this. Cloud nineteen more than fair. They were unconvincing as all hell this past weekend blew out to other teams whether series we got a highlight here in the lcs and these are the ones who really looking like the actual worlds representatives hundred thieves versus eg takes off then tsm versus team liquid. Here's the kicker for both of series. The winner of either one goes to worlds. That's it full send. They are guaranteed top three. Absolutely fucking wild hundred. These are i wanna hear. Jack's talk to me about myself. You have one hundred thieves. Badger and bickel have evil geniuses. Lay the groundwork all right. So we just saw evil geniuses absolutely smashed dignity toss but you know what the big differences between dignatories at hundred thieves under thieves as a second all pro mid lehner right behind zika as opposed to bucking yasui. I don't think evil geniuses can smash the other matchups. I think they're awash more or less like you asked me to pick between someday impact asked me to pick between what we don't even know whether it's going to be contracts or spend scaring versus closer probably get a bit closer probably a seventy thirty two where i'm like there. You could make a case. And i wouldn't call you stupid for making a case that contracts are send scaring was the better player. But i disagree with you And the bought lanes. These are the best bought lanes in the league. I think these teams matchup super evenly. This is going to be in exciting fucking series and we should not see zoo pages smashing his opponent three or four times like we saw versus dig. I'm so excited that we ended up with the match ups. We did ask you just how it was going to work regardless give seating but we got to active heavy fighting teams two teams. That wanna make you make the right decision rather than the other way around. In one hundred or cg and then on the other side we got the two plotting boring teams one of whom looks completely revamped. So things are maybe changing quite a bit here. I'm stoked for both of these. I have one hundred as i said. Jackson hundred thieves bickel. You've got evil geniuses. Why do they take the victory in this series and punch their ticket towards this series is exciting as hell. I think a big thing to note is how that regular season came to an end is eeg was hot. Hot hot and one hundred thieves was not not not under the started off the season. Fantastic they looked by far best team in the league but they haven't had that same spark in the second half and eg has kept growing and growing and growing. And i think at this point. Evil genius has taken over as the best summer team. I think this could go either way. I think every lane can go either way. But i think one thing. Jack's mentioned that. I disagree with is in someday versus impact. Normally i'd say agree. Fifty fifty not this year someday is not himself in impact is more than himself and i think that will be the start of that is the small seed that eeg needs to grow into a lead. And i think they can take it and run with it. Yeah this is going to be good there. I think there's some points of power for both teams. If i'm one hundred i'm actually looking at the same thing i've talked about every fucking week. It feels like free. G explained the fact that jews zika does not care where he is on the map. He's gonna fight you and if you can do that which i think. One hundred thieves absolutely team that can suddenly you have an advantage in the mid lane and more importantly g has a hole there and i do think the river of energy flows through that mid lane and if zika as off his rhythm in any way shape or form. That's the victory con. everything else could be a. She might even have impact smashing top. Which seems unlikely that it's a smash but may beginning an advantage but if that midlands not going jeez way who things get real. Rough and hundred. Thieves have a great coaching staff. They also have a coach well known for maybe over thinking a little too hard and appeal five. It's just add some extra spicier with report returning to the ac all right. Any last thoughts badger hundred thieves. I e g can you keep it to fifteen seconds or less closing ever. Keep anything to fifteen seconds or less. No they used up five right now. I just think. Peter is a better coach than repaired and g is going to become more prepared at also. There's an invented interview there was invent. I can't remember there was an interview came out with Ges uk that. I just actually posted in the discordant office in the lcs channel but basically peter dunne gave jews. Uk the green light for whatever he said. Do whatever. do your thing. You're not going to get bench to worry about it. You got this buddy. And then i think i just think jay e. g. wednesday. I think they're the best team. In north america. great. I'd be excited to send them to world regardless and all right let's go to the next one got. Tsn versus team liquid a classic match up between two of the heaviest hitters in north american history. Tsm here because they were first place team liquid here because they turned themselves around in just five short days. Wow and that's particularly. I think why myself badger and bickel all have team liquid taking the victory here. Tsm ended the regular season so strong so dominant very clearly in possession that first place position but this past beal five-man wow recency. Bias may be best to five bias. Perhaps but team liquid look fucking good and like they are the antidote to the slow steady methodical. Play that tsm has been utilizing since twenty. Four boy bickel talk to me. Set the set the ground rules for this one a little bit. This one is also exciting. Going into playoffs. I fully expected if t. l. made it here is would be easy for tsn tsm if we're ignoring spring playoffs because best five completely different thing. I think that makes it more difficult but in the regular season. Tsm is five. Oh over team liquid. They've lost a game jenkins with far bit with santorin beat with her male. Tsm's beat them every time but this new look team liquid. I think has what it takes. I love the players on t. l. in the match ups i think alf ari. When he's playing is the best top leaner in the lcs. Full stop sinturin has been on point as of late. Jensen if he plays like he did against perks. Holy hell and then core and tactical against lost. I love the so good. This is going to be such a blast. Jacks as the the resident team liquidator not the only one just resident one. You have. tsm here you have them. Continuing their dominance staying in and essentially the first place and punching their ticket two worlds where they can once again go zero six against the number one seat of number two seed of elp and the champion talk to me about why not s. m. beat team liquid. This weekend didn't you just say it's the storyline. Tsm has to win the split so they can go. Oh six thousand worlds and disappointing once again now but serious answer is power of evil has actually looked on form and like the biggest competitor that this version of janson is gonna face potentially hemorrhages. Uk are the ones around like. Oh boy this is gonna be fun. Dog just doesn't play as explosive of style so much excited about that matchup but also speaker because the best juggler in the league. I think and i think can expose santo on or are you in ways that blabber just didn't lost and sorta i've been looking a lot better i do think they are weaker than their team liquid counterparts. But i don't think it's as dramatic as it would have been like second third week of summer when we were really down on this team spot lane. I think they've figured out how to gel and are playing a lot better. And frankly who needs a fucking coin flip and maybe he'll flip heads and there's no. I think the key thing for me that anything is he relied so much on that nocturne pick post nerf. Don't think get away with that against the way team liquids looking and not against far not over five games. Bickel i did go for. Ti but this hardware one because even though we all went this way except for jacks tsm's the number one team for the split for the season for a reason and they should be treated like that. At least give him some credit. There'd be oh five. I'm not competent. And there'd be oh five. I'm going to be on either. But so here's the thing t- lb gsm three one both times they played in sprint. We got raw. The only reason t. l. didn't win. Spring is because our mayo had to come in because sanatorium had health issues coming in. We got denied the best. We got denied what this best five was that we saw last weekend. This time around. I just don't think even with a week. Prep i don't think. Gsm has the guns to handle t. l. when they're firing on all cylinders at this point te'o unlock in tokyo. Got second place with a sub subs. The only reason taylor got second. 'cause they got a substitute juggler. Te'o comes out and they just go all again. All gas no breaks. They hit that when they get into best fives and this is the roster that everyone has been waiting all split to pay for their for them to play with. I just don't think that. Tsm has the firepower come back. We i mean we have all these accolades. Tsm's first team. Juggler poe is third team made. You've got who needs third team. All top lane off ari didn't play santorin didn't play. We've seen this shit all split long that it took so long for this -til roster to come back together that i don't think. Tsn will be ready for the the force the storm that is approaching for me even simpler than that were approaching. Best of environments. What is the number one. Most important part of the entire match for best of drafting its draft and what is the most suspect part of. Tsm's entire game. Plan is their draft bar. None even if you give them a draft on the rift that can seem to pull something tangible together. Is it good. No does it wind sometimes. Yeah now you're in a best of and you got to figure this shit out against an opponent that you thought you knew and within the past five days before your playoffs you suddenly have to throw out your entire game plan and retool and i do not have. This was an e. g. roster that they're up against i could say ooh okay. Peter done maybe could figure out. Scene is robust staff. I think they could figure it out. Given five days would they would this. I don't know but has shown consistently over years. Even an inability to adapt to anything with any sort of quickness and we have most of that entire staffing team. Still here there's still a major part of the decision-making tree and yeah unless team liquid seriously regresses from this past weekend and maybe we just saw their peak and they can't achieve it again. This is an uphill battle for them. This is the real challenge for two rookie. Ish coaches in cold and bergson s. Two fives are aware. Coaches legends are made. Let's see it happen. Who steps up. Who falters great. Way to put a tsm legend pearson and splice legend. Trashy up against each other once again all comes back to splice boys. I can't stop it all right. That's it for the. We spent a lot of time here because there's so much fun stuff to talk about but we gotta jump over the pond. Everyone we gotta talk. L. e. c. Start up this weekend. Oh my god. I'm so excited because there are so many banger matchups even the weaker matchup quote unquote. Here still looks like it could be a hell of a lot of fun and there's a good story line here anyway. We've got rogue versus misfits to kick us off. Then we jump into mad lions versus g to then we wrap it all up with fanatic verses vitality self-made revenge to her question mark. I'm using that a lot today. I don't know why just questioning everything. Let's start at the top rogue versus mad lines. We have a split cast slightly in that myself. Badger and bickel all are choosing the single most dominant team in the region. The team that literally does not lose two teams worse than them. The team that has consistently been the top two conversation over the entirety of 2021 with probably the single best juggler and definitely the most dominant one we saw over the course of the entire year and the split up against a bunch of misfits. Jacks is the only one who picked misfits yours think which comes as no shock nor surprise and to listeners. Jack's talk to me. Lay the groundwork for two week break between the end of the regular season and now rogue versus misfits era promise last week i was going to come up with something to justify this the best. I've got because frankly. I'm an idiot for picking misfits but it. I'm going all in on it. That's the spirit we already saw misfits dominate ninety percent of a game versus rogue. It was weeks ago did they dominate ninety percent of that game versus rogue because they had a stable bottling here at popped off and veto popped off and raise orc is still arguably the second best in the league right now so if misfits are going to win this series it's going to be through kaban vander being a stable. Bottling that does not allow Why can't i remember the names of the bottling for rogue unscom somma too. I know but it's because of being stable bottling not beating them but preventing those two from snowballing out of control while veto and here it play out of their minds and popoff and raise. Orc plays the game. He's been playing for months and we have seen flashes of true greatness out of here it they have dumpstered opponents that should have been there betters in the regular season. They have to do that in this playoff series. Bickham play devil's advocate with jackson second. I did pick rogue. But i wanna add something for the past two playoffs. Rogue have common is either number one the number two seed and they've had advantageous match up got to pick their opponent or against someone's considerably weaker. Last time it was against mad. Lions they picked them the time before that. It was fanatic. I think the pick them to both times that lost they dropped the lower bracket match up. They were supposed to win when they were still this. We beat the worst teams. Lost rogue have always had a playoff consistency issue. I don't want to call them chokers. But it's what has happened consistently. And i hope they can overcome this. 'cause i love roque i want to want me to the title so bad but i think it is possible that misfits can capitalize on that and take advantage of that okay and badger to tell us specifically why rogue winds. They're the better team either. Don't miss is going to be able to hold up to a team. That's got the best topple enter the best drug player. The top three kind of consistent. But he's not going to be flashing up to win you games mid and then the boss best bottom lane in europe. I just don't see how miss can hold up to this. I really don't hans check baby all right at in this case on's check all right. That's it for rogue versus misfits jumping over to the next. I hate you got. I can't believe i haven't used it yet. I need to use that more often. That's my thing now. Mad versus g to mad lines versus gamers as well i am so fucking hyped for this matchup. I love nothing. More than liverpool games. Champions league football and mad lions versus gamers to it is just pure chaos and pure fun in every single way. These best between these two squads have been bangers every single time. It's only been like three times in total this point but they've been fantastic their two squads that played very similarly in terms of aggression somewhat calculated. They like to make moves to force their opponents to react to what they're going to do they both team fight very well in the late game and both right now even have probably the two best late game team fighters in the eighty. Carry position on some. I think definitely deserves to be in that conversation but right now those two are just stacks beyond those three really are stacks beyond everyone else in the league kaiser literally king of the rift so excited for him to go up against mickey who is brilliant at so many different ways at playing support. This lane caps has actually been exposed. I think this year more than we've ever seen them past his first split when he really was just straight up coin flipping and he really didn't know what was going to happen and humanoid. He's kind of re- i think reverted. He's gotten better over the past couple of weeks but he had a period of time where he couldn't stop getting caught in the solar lanes and that's stopped happening. The big problem. I had was armagh in the top line who has turned things around in a big big way and wonder hasn't been the dominant force. We've sometimes seen for him. Whoever two weeks no recent. Wow patch fingers crossed. We may see a return to form here for him. And i think the big stylistic difference beyond everything else because i think everyone else plays very similarly. I think the karzi aggression versa reckless safety. That's a difference. And i also think it's l. ya i and i have it going. Elliot's way the reason for that is the two week gap. I think yoccoz is one of those ex mathie types right now where he can control the flow of a game. He does a very good job. Typically of shutting down his opposition being in the right place going for particular objectives a really typically helping out one or two lanes and getting them ahead. It's been the bottling consistently They've done a really good job. Obviously through caps. Which i think has been cranked up a little bit over the past couple of weeks as they found more success. It's been him really doing the to v two with caps in the main rather than leaving him on the island where he used to excel but now cannot quite get over the hump on his own but with that two weeks prep. We've seen him come into the league and just blow everyone away doing things that no one thought he was going to do and every time he comes back from some break away from league which has really been the beginning of spring then into msi and then from a regular season. No one what he's doing. He's just all over the map going crazy and i don't think she too is going to be ready. I think illinois is going to pull out something crazy. They've only got five games to figure out. And i don't think they do. I'm expecting a fortified game banger. I really am. These are two teams that can just wash to feed off their back. They don't care though. Jump into the next game without a thought in the world. You know being like a goldfish. No animals happier than a goldfish because they got a ten second memory. And sometimes that's what you gotta do especially in the best of thank you ted lasso. I'm fucking excited. I have mad. Badger has mad bickel. Why does to win. Because it's g to even though that's not an argument anymore like it used to be the to never lose now that has not been as consistent issue but gee to avalon much better. As of late than they did for that first half of the split they had a real struggle to start but it seems like ever since kept shaved his head. they've been picking things up. Reckless is still that consistent carry threat and holy hell. Is this entire game. Just going to be exciting as hell. I think the top lane is still very volatile because yes we've seen more arm recently but he's not on that form that he used to be. I'm still hoping for more. Hopefully he can reach that. But until then. I'm not confident. Yanko has the experience. He has the x factor. He has the clutch factor if need be. He's a veteran. he's been in these day after day after year after year. He's been in these positions. He's been to the finals of world's set. Ap's won and msi. I know these are all historic arguments versus current arguments but clutch factor matters. Because in the end this is such a close match up. Someone needs to step up. Put their foot down and say i am making the play that is going to win us. This series and i am more confident that someone on g to will do that than someone on mad lines. We'll do that but if someone mad lines does it. It's gonna be ilya or it's going to be karzi who've been fantastic all right. This is a really good matchup. Definitely watch this game. You got enough time. Come on guys if you're gonna watch a single c. playoff series this weekend. I think this has to be the one for you. It's the closest match up. It's an explosive matchup. We're gonna talk about the next one which might be very one way fest as potentially the previous one was however before we get their big thing. I don't think we mentioned whoever wins. These games qualifies for world's that's that's when you're in zone. Congratulations yep both rogue verse misfits and mad adverse g two operates in that same way and otherwise. It's a wm chest fucking mental. So let's talk about the two teams down here at the bottom. We got fifth for six up against each other. They do not have the advantage of double-elimination. If you lose this one you are out. The winner then has to face a loser of the tiebreaker that occurs between rogue the loser of floors oversee So in that case it would be potentially misfits or misfits. Yep exactly all right. Let's talk about it. Fanatic vitality bickel The groundwork here so we all agree on one thing. In particular in europe there is a top five and there is a bottom five and in this case we have a top five team versus bottom. Five fifteen fanatic. We all agree is just the better team. Almost all around. I say almost because of the revenge tour of a man who put on a backpack in the final week of the regular season and said i'm dragons team to play offs if it kills me because self-made is not one to question because if anybody can pull this off it's him and he's still looked good over the last couple of weeks. Even when vitality was not great self-made was still honestly ahead of most of the players on the rift period. No matter who they are up against that's for little revenge tour. Is that enough kill. It's not so can leader. Just not please just just stop. Just don't just please. I want this for me and for you leader. Look at me. Look into my eyes on this podcast. Thank you the next going to gal eater three. Churn yourself at a gallon so the crazy thing about it is upset got married. So he's joined the married man meta so that's all the evidence i needed that fanatic was going to at least make world at this. Point is the of said is now married. Gotta win to make account ambition married when worlds doing be married when worlds fanatic twenty twenty. One champions confirmed maybe we'll find out maybe get married. Yeah we don't. We don't know who else is getting married around here. There's four teams coming from china. Twenty different possibilities overall already married but yeah but we don't even know if other players are married is like other possibilities because who knows. Yeah how much do this game. I'm pretty sure he's married to league of legends. He's also actually married. All these players are like that. There's really not much to talk about here right. Vitality has so many fucking holes. I don't know it doesn't matter who they put in that top lane. Adam is so aggressive in such a fucking monster. Slt who i if he gets beaten by. I'm just going to be. Ot from now on because it's going gonna get eaten like a nice little snack or agenda. It's all going to be pretty rough up there. The bottling it should be better than it is right. I think that's the biggest thing is. If i told you bought lincoln actually figure there should out. This might be a series otherwise midlands england round shop. That is going to be like. Hey maybe if you know crunch shot actually pulls his head out of his ass for once in his career will. Here's the here's the thing. I'm trying to find a win condition for vitality. It's not through leader. It's not through. Slt lebron just jurado combo enabling the map lake. That's just the way that you can say that that has to happen or it's over and they have to enable them out by getting someone ahead and it's not gonna matter if it's a salty and it's not gonna matter if it's leader. I don't think maybe a little bit more there. But i really do think crown shot is the key to success here for this team. Outside of self made himself actually obviously doing well. I think a big thing is we've seen hilla sang struggle. When he's not on those engaged champions he's played more ghana twice and it has not looked good if vitality can find a way to manipulated draft and move things around in force him onto those defensive. Non engage non hilla sang type champions in fanatic minutes to botch draft enough. I don't know two weeks of time. Right fanatic was looking really rough at the. The split agreed agreed agreed. They've now had two weeks to retool reset themselves and get ready again. And i think that the way we saw them come out swinging in the beginning of the split shit. They just kind of replicate even a quarter of that success. They probably three one this right. Does anyone have anything other than fanatic. Winning this in any capacity. I know we all pick them to win. But is there like any shot in hell for vitality windows upsets honeymoon. Yeah way from legal legends was way too much mazzola married man we saw a. I really appreciate you. Try to vocalise something here. But i did just see three. Very deer in headlights. Looks as soon as i did. Ask that question. So none of us have any clue. Vitality pulls out lil l. p. l. news that rainy just popped up apparently victory five is merging with ninjas in pyjamas. Yeah i just posted that whole nv. fire I don't know if it's going to be like that. Ed are g gigabyte marine stuff. But we'll see the lpn so happy and ip back baby all right. Well we're going to be back after this weekend of incredible games. If you're gonna watch anything at all you've got watch adverse to in the l. e. c. If you've only got time for one matchup coming up for the because there are four hundred thieves for cg for me. I think that's going to be the really good fun matchup. If you're a longtime fan like us though team liquid might tickle your fancy either way we have four playoff series this weekend's where the winners of them auto qualify for world's we will have four of our six western representatives already picked out by monday morning next week which is fucking awesome just to reiterate we actually didn't i believe even say this. But you probably want to know win the goddamn matches are that'll help you a lot and usually we're pretty good at that friday august thirteenth nine. Am is misfits versus roque eight. Am the next day saturday the fourteenth once again. Ps is mad. Lions versus to east sports sunday august fifteenth is a repeat at eight. Am pius t. Vitality versus fanatic jumping back over the pond. Because we didn't talk about it then. When do they start. Thank you for asking thursday august twelfth at three 'pm. Ps two we have afternoon games here. Immortals versus dignatories three pm again. friday august thirteenth golden gardens versus cloud. Nine saturday the fourteenth. We do the same kind of schedule where it goes back. One hour two. Pm ps t. e. g. Verse hunter thieves. Sunday august fifteenth. Same thing here back in our one. Pm team liquid versus tsm. We've got four straight days of incredible games across llc and lcs. These are going to be some really fun. Matchups with some chance for upsets and some chance for just absolute shellacking and we're gonna find top dogs at the end of it all and that's it for us here us top dogs of the lcs rundown because we made it to the end of the episode. And i think we kept under two hours so america and thus the world. You're welcome guys. And i really appreciate. I appreciate you keeping each segment under five minutes. Five of course being the number of stars we'd love for you all the give us on wherever you're listening to our podcast app. If not you can give us a big old thumbs up. Tell your friends tell your grandma. Tell everyone about us. We'd love to get in the ears of more people out there. It's how we grow as community. It's how we bring more people in to our discord. We could play some more games together. It'll be super super fun once again turning discord come jump in be part of the conversation. Have fun with us. It's total blast in here. But that's it that's going to do it for us here. At the league rundown finally of relief. We're going to find out exactly who were sending the end of this weekend with only one spot remaining for each. Thank you all for taking this journey with us through a very long and sometimes tortuous twenty twenty. One we love. you will see next week

bickel elsie k volkan trinity force kanga mongoose Midland butlin danny vulcan inc Peter motherfucking peter dunn yasuo jimmy jimmy harrison harrison Majnoun foundation of lgbt Badger ellen g tarzan fo fo
League Rundown - Episode 353: Perkz and Benefits of a Mad Mad World: Brought to You by Captain Flowers Oops, All Bangers a Delicious Part of a Balanced Finals Weekend ft.18 Games

League Rundown: A league of Legends Esports Podcast

1:55:15 hr | 5 months ago

League Rundown - Episode 353: Perkz and Benefits of a Mad Mad World: Brought to You by Captain Flowers Oops, All Bangers a Delicious Part of a Balanced Finals Weekend ft.18 Games

"This episode of the rundown is brought to you by moxie and zen checkup marks in zan dot com slash t force using the code trinity force for twenty. Percents off your order. Premium high-quality inexpensive boxers. They're made from bamboo to help. Wick away the sweat which leaves you feeling fresh. Compared to the other brands none of them will keep you as comfy as moxie and zen off jimi living. Those shots single win the game by fighting pick winless thank you hello and welcome to episode three hundred and fifty three of the league rundown slash lockdown spring split twenty twenty one finals. This episode is with so much love entitled perks and benefits of a mad mad world brought to you by captain. Flowers oops fingers a delicious part of a balanced finals weekend featuring eighteen games. I'm your host sean. Duffy joined tonight by a full cast. Full summitters rift squad. We've got ear title. We've got odin. We've got jacks twists dot tv slash jackson and live from the studio. We've got kansas. I can't tell you said grains because you fucked up the annunciation of the word or if you're making a plan words grains either way. i'm upset though. I was trying to really like draw. In the fact that was supposed to be like eighteen grains of whatever grams or something and just area. This is good as i can. Just add more to the title just games slash done adding things to the title. Half the space we can. We can add more remembered for everyone listening. Now who is just confused as all hell because our titled probably takes up the entire screen of your podcast. We could have made it twice as long. So you're welcome. America and also the wards speaking of the world. We've got a ton of news before we dive into what happened this finals weekend. So let's start in the l. p. l. because it's the only major region that has not actually finished its entire spring split right now. We are awaiting the second to finals team. That will go up against former world. Champion fund plus phoenix. They will face the winner of e. g. versus r. n. g. a really interesting time period for all of us if you've been paying attention to the l. p. for the past couple of years neither of those two teams are. I think are really the ones you would think of right now. There's no uzi anymore. So why is still on top. Eighty has had its moments in the doghouse. But they've been a rising to the top for this split Way that we got here over. The past couple of days is fun. Plus phoenix actually beat. Ad to start off this round robin really between the top. Four teams are in top east sports and then fun plus phoenix by beating. Edge advanced directly to the finals. And he d g themselves have to fight our and gee there's just a lot of g.'s. Here for the chance to be the number one g out of the l. p. l. and being the representative at msi in iceland. Because we're all gamers hell. Yeah hashtag gabor's very true elsie. K update yeah. This was not a shocker. Dom on gaming are your elsie. K champions a relatively clean three zero over jen. Gee game two was really the rocky got and it wasn't much at all Even chevy was having excuse me chevy. Bdo was put into a blender and a big big way for most of the honestly. I think it was. The first kill of the series was a solo. Kill onto him in the mid lane and that was it. The cast really hard to hype up the series in make it sound like really interesting and stuff and they had some cool stuff but god damn lake dumb one is just unreal. Like this team scary. They're absolutely nuts. They're going to be a joy to watch. As will whichever l. p. o. representative we get that arrives in reykjavik. Good luck cloud. Nine confirmed that they're already. We know all the representatives in group. So i came in before cloud nine manages to beat damn one but loses to both wildcards and gets i so actually. That's a great fan club. They become the best even. If they don't make it out of groups they still become the best performing international team with that performance Let's actually talked about him so group a we have the l. p. representative who are still waiting for the representative. We're all still waiting for them. The representative we are waiting for them and penton net dot g g. You penton net tonight. Yeah sorry but i know you got really excited if there is a. Was that an team internet correct. Oh god rip opio man. I miss you. This is still. I mean they're still here. This is their team. Penton dodgy actually the e. representative as well. They get to be here in a formal league a riot back league but they still technically exist works at a tournament. I believe an actual probably talked about this next coming weeks so no further questions your honor. Let's talk group. B. we've got mad. Lions representing the. We are still waiting for the three other representatives which are going to be the pcs the tcl and see below us just to back it up a little bit. Let's go back to group ages for everyone who doesn't know the acronyms. Maybe you're just now tuning in you've loved to find a wonderful podcast. You wanna give five stars for and you've stumped the ours. We've got the chinese representative the l. p. l. the vietnamese representative of the bcs and the russian representative the al. Up against the oceanic representative impediment dodgy group a in groupie we have e you european representative mad lines up against pcs. Which is the pacific region. Really the island region there Up against tcl. Which is the turkish region and finally cb low which is the brazilian representative. We are still waiting for those three Looks really good for mad. Though which is not maybe so great considering how well they performed in an otherwise favorable bracket at world's But this is a very different team. I think they're gonna find success here. They went up against it in against g. two and then against rogue and we're gonna talk about that and here and came out on top and i think they can handle the pressure here. Group see this. Is the fun one. Because it has juan gaming and cloud nine don juan of course from korea cloud. I'm from north america with infinity east sports and detonation focus me infinity. Sports is the latin america representative which is a combined. Latin america north and latin south. That changed. I think at the end of last year. Detonation focused me. You many people may remember because they are often the representative out of japan and they will remain so this year the only group where we never with thing or excuse me every representative from at this point. So that's the groups Can cloud i make it out. Yes those fucking yes gonna find out. Just how good blabber is amen to that and if perks is worth the price one splits. Great title. True is title already. We will get to all that momentarily but odin before the lcs final started there was a performance from a particular group. Would you like to tell all of us what that group was called you and finally new pentecostal single abso lutely has ruined king. Super super cool. We got teased. It's a new single from pentacle. The are gonna come out with a third album really kick ass that You know hey. Everything else may fall apart or on energy production. We may like give you shots of cameraman's butts during the game. We may just get to see a deer for like thirty seconds segment. But god damn it. If you get us in a music studio will pump out something pretty fucking awesome although the is kind of catching up with that requires so. This was not as cool as when brazil had a pentacle concert for their opening ceremony. Because they in cost you fucking cool but still join land on stage singing. I know the audio was piped in and some people are upset about that. But he's the one who did the fucking song who cares. Yeah i think they were actually good. I didn't know that it's gonna be album. I just thought it was a single. I'm super hyped. I love the pentacle albums. That's like half my workout playlist expand. Its fairly good. Classic style heavy metal. It's great i love. Amen wonderful what else you love to see the l. e. c. average viewership continued to increase up thirty five percents such a massive growth. It's insane and this is the second year of their rebrand really to l. e. c. from just the lcs eu. It's massive what they've been able to do. They found their own form their own rhythm. They're doing all sorts of things. We've talked over the months for while now about all the different sponsorships all the crazy stuff. They've been able to do now. They've got this little thing where it's all eight bit which seemed really cool and actually works really well with The amount of time they're able to spend actually in a studio given cove and the pandemic They have their whole little. Emo thing that they're doing as well like it's just a ton of fun love to see this being rewarded. The finals between rogue and mad lion's not the titans quote unquote of you beat g tubers fanatic in the finals. The same split last year not by much. But still there's growth continuing to occur and that's insane and so awesome for the l. e. c. I mean gts fanatic series is like on a normal day that draws a ton of viewers like you would expect a gt fanatic finals to be like the biggest like nothing can top that right so for seventeen thousand last yet so for a finals to come along without either of those two teams in pretty not handedly but like it broke it by more than just a couple thousand So that's that's just awesome man. i'm. I'm lovin the eu lcs. Like what i do. Watch the production values awesome. It's they're doing a bang-up job over there keep it up guys absolutely. Amen speaking of l. e. c. Let's stick around here because we've got some awards to talk about. Reckless is your mvp of the c. Right after him as inspired and then oto omni thoughts. Jack's hit i mean it's a regular season award and i think based on regular season reckless absolutely deserves it. Okay fair enough. Anyone have any rejoinder. I was annoyed. I thought reckless was good but like so strong yet. Like i i get it i get. Why reckless wins. Mvp like it's reckless. He just moves over to. They still get first or not just that but reckless looked better earth regular season. Gt on fanatic. And a couple of years i agree. Yeah that's so he's getting those. Mvp's that he always lost a caps. The top three is hard argue with inspired klis. Yeah inspired would be my number two. Yeah yeah this is pretty good things. Get a little weird later on. We'll get there in the second l. Elia is your rookie of the split. I think there is a very close contest here. Between annoying and trimbe. I think for regular season. It could have gone either way. They're both very successful. Both did a shit ton of work. And we're so impactful. I think it makes sense for you to get it because he was so much. More noticeably impactful for the entirety of mad lions Run in the regular season but this is either deserving right. there's some kick ass rookies. Every goddamn split in this stupid region. Noxious gimme rookie. Gimme gimme rookie and smoke to go with it The coaching team. Is this a shocker. To anyone that rogue the coaching staff. I am i for one absolutely bewildered. This is what i'm looking for. Thank you for playing into this ian. Tell me why you're so upset. Because gt should've one barrett is no absolutely this is right. This is absolutely one hundred percent deserved. I think the only arguments you can make are for the third place team in mad. Lions with a brand new rookie and still looking good enough for third but rogue competing with g to this insane not with reckless now and go tit for tat with them anymore. Said yeah it's tough to argue. These are all great and then we get to the all pro team which is gonna look real funny in a couple of minutes here said like ten seconds ago. Yeah can't could you tell us what the members were for the all pro first team. Oh clearly the best players in the region that you know are gonna be representing the region that next upcoming large international tournament right. That's how that's how it's always been and there's no way that fans participated in the vote could of ever skew the results in a way. Never mind it's all members g. two and they got third-place hoops all g little. It's extra frustrating. Because this is a regular season award wonder yuccas and mickey do not deserve to be most confusing to me like trimbe inspired oto omni should have been number one. All pro for those roles. Cats and reckless totally valley did make withdrawals like this season in the regular season is. This might have been mickey's worst season in like arguably ever. Maybe he's saying yeah. This was nuts. Rogue does pick up for the five slots for a team to so at least you know they were right there behind but trimbe does even make top three. Which i'm just and then you have. I think kaiser. And i think yoyo makes their team. I don't remember. I stopped reading beyond that because it was just so funny. The all pro team scam players. They couldn't get into second team their matt players that should have been in second team first team unlucky fans stop voting or vote sensibly instead of just voting for your team. Yeah and maybe if you're a member of the media over here in l. c. s. Don't just vote for players because they're from your region for mvp cough cough because you're mvp over here. In north america is drum roll. Please thank you so much in who is the mvp. It's your boy blabber. Who else could it possibly fucking be. This guy is absolutely just run. Train on every other juggler the entire. Lcs basically carried his team to victory. the yeah. This guy's insane like el-farra was the runner up in l. Also had an insane season but it was just nowhere close to the amount of stuff that blabber did for for his team have fbi and a distant third which makes sense. I mean a lot of the hundred thieves across the finish line. Yeah the gap between like blabber and then just everyone else yes. Right now is huge. I will say there was a lot of hate about how far not getting this up until yesterday's games and then people shut the fuck up. We will get there very soon. One caveat for these team liquid games that we will cover san and they're starting. Juggler was not able to participate in any of the games. They're playing over. The weekend was having some really really bad migraines and honestly given the fact that the finals were set outside into the sun for part of it. That probably would've killed him so for personal health. He stayed out For the ability of the team he stood out instead. The player formerly known as grigg and now armao Stepped in instead are mayo. Whatever you wanna call my just gonna call them armoured because it sounds like lamelo and i think that's funnier and he can't do anything to stomach other news in. What should everyone be joining you. If you have not already should open the link in the description of our podcast enjoy our community discord server. It's awesome you have a bunch of great people there. We do watch parties sometimes. I'm sure we'll be doing some for msi because that's a high tournament Yeah come watch. Msi with us. It'll be awesome. You play games with us. You can try and take rank one away from mongoose on the server. Good fucking luck to anyone trying to do that. yeah you should totally join the discord sever. It's a great place for all. I think we're one member away from two hundred and fifty at this point so you can be the last one you can make two hundred fifty amen amen to that and if you join our community survey you get to participate in all sorts of fun things with us. Like being part of the sleeper pickup which we have one winner who actually rose above everyone else and that is circuitry who had nineteen points got three correct and round one to round to a single one around three and then picked the winner correctly and cloud nine. If team liquid had one i would have run away with the entire thing. I did was not correct in that one pick and so i dropped all the way down to eighteenth so we have a lot of people up above us. There's a tie here. In second between badger and sunshine will you actually have still lost a circus circus trie. Are you sure no. You're right because he got the points from the finals eighteen. I was winning up into that game. And then i lost so unlucky but super fun. We have no award for anyone winning these things except for bragging rights fact we maybe we should give them a little little special tang. That'd be fun. Special player on the discord server. Little pick them champs seattle. I think there's one other thing that ian you probably wanted to mention regarding the finals we're going to talk about the final themselves and a little bit but there were some caveats for what was happening there. Yes join me to talk about the Stuff that vincit. Yeah this was a yeah. Go ahead and explain this real quick. Basically this was an interview This is just like a short little clip of an interview that did and it was basically someone asked him like. Hey what did you think of the The whole setup that we had like the stage and like you know in the fans not being there but still being out on stage and stuff and he basically said he was like. Yeah i feel like the entire stage is inadequate for competitive integrity. He complained specifically about the sun being directly in their eyes and Whenever the wind would blow it would really cold and so they had to use quote. Hand warmers on cooldown In the stages apparently kind of rickety like it would shake around whenever the wind would blow with not great Be vin was not happy with the quality of the stage at. I'm sure that all of the other players felt similarly however according to sean at least this is what had to happen because cova restrictions thank you cove it. I'm glad we got something. It wasn't great but we are going to talk about a little bit. It did not look like the actual competitive nature of the finals. Themselves were really disturbed. That much Both teams looked like they were ready to fucking play and they played out of their minds. But part for me about the stage was hearing i. I know some of the refs at the show and one of them was saying the drone that would fly by that was present for the Saturday but absent from the sunday ones because literally the first time it flew by it. Sounded like to quote was three lawnmowers at the same time. So the coaches that is. I don't care if not flying by her. Players and production was like okay. You you make a good point. Imagine you're trying to communicate with your juggler gang or something and then all of a sudden you're coms like would be awful. They willing to compromise. But yeah still got to play outside regardless Not be played outside. Thank god for that. Well that's because the entire island will be destroyed by volcano in the volcano right. Oh that we're finally getting magma chamber in real life if you don't make it out groups you get dropped into the volcano like your stitches crumbles down and then he just like a battle royale vinyl really gives the whole you have to swim home thing kind of a different look gotta swim through magma. Same alright well. Let's talk about a region that did not bring anyone any shame unless you are a certain samurai fan. Let's talk the l. e. c. the second greatest region on god's green earth. We're going to start with the semi finals. The waiting team in the final was of course mad lines and they awaited the winner of rogue vs jey to every single. One of us just looked at this matchup and said you know what gee to owns rogue and the head to head they own rogue every time they play them they've been in this situation before in the losers bracket they're going to take it again. What did they not. They did not succeed in beating. Roku finally overcame their demons and crushed g too. I think rather convincingly thoroughly deserved to be in the finals meaning. The finals was two teams. Bt two in the playoffs can't really get a better pedigree than that. But let's talk rogue g to jack start us off all right. So rogue g to this was a weird series mostly because like okay. You expect when you hear that g. tube got three one. You expect it to be okay. They were trolling. That didn't really feel like the case. It felt like gee to was outclassed. And that's not at all what i expected to see going into this like larsen stepped up and was able to match caps. I don't think he really beat caps the series but he was able to be caps. Either which is not what you'd expect. It's fucking caps reckless. And mickey were not able to make things happen but it didn't look like they were just controlling goofing off. They just couldn't beat handsome and trimbe like inspired lately at yankee. Yes that's that was by far. The biggest mismatch of this series is inspired. Looked like the best juggler in a yang janos. Frankly in this series. He looks like a juggler on amid bottom tier. Lsat unreal nonexistent. Linkohr's felt in this entire series are viable felt like g. Tube came into this with hore matter. Read as well with just how their picks rolled in but like most of them were fine but it just they did. It seem to have enough edge out. Team fight wrote which is so strange to talk about but there just the coordination wasn't there. Something was missing. It felt like well. We all know what's missing big difference. We saw reckless for years failed to be a leader for fanatic and not want to be a leader at all and leaves to go to the other team and replaces that team's leader so it's yeah it's so watch the players are so good. It's it's tough to say that. When i would argue that reckless was probably the best performer on that series. It's tough to say like. Oh the it's because they lost leader. I agree but like it's hard to put the burden on reckless right because like he also showed up the most. I think the yeah more or less across the board it felt like rogue just outclassed to They just played better league of legends. A five game series And that's evident by the fact that it didn't even go to game five right Yeah yeah like inspired in larsen and hans somma trimbe oto omni. It's like going looking at all. The players like everyone had moments in this game in the series where they all popped off and did great things in its. I personally love to see it. 'cause i i'm really enjoying like the new guard right of you coming in kind of taking over. Now it's like okay cool like you know it. We can't be stuck in the past forever. Tom in seeing young fresh talent do very very well and be successful. Is you just love to see it. I want to say that there are some issues that rogue always g two which is that. They can't get rolling. They can't get ahead and then even when they get ahead which was very rare they just fell apart after. Like the twenty minute mark when do to basically decided you know what we've kept the game close for long enough for only down three k. Despite somehow being down like twenty kills two five were still like in it. Lets just beat them in the game. Now in this instance for the basically the whole series rogues early game was so much better than we've expected from them in. The past is usually a team that tries to get ahead then tries to hang onto it and then slowly chokes you out. They went ahead early. And then even when g to do their counterpunched. You always like expect from this team. They never got ahead. In fact every counterpunch see weaker than what rogue was hitting them with her for everything that throughout them. Yeah they were doing really really good job controlling early dominating and enforcing g to into mistakes and g to uncharacteristically like weren't taking advantage of anything that was in front of them and i think that's the biggest surprise for me is not necessarily that rogue played. Well because we've been hearing that from. Everyone like reckless said. I think last weekend that he expected rogue to win the whole thing. Because of their scrim results so incas yes same with the ankles like this is a common theme that rogue looked really good and they showed it and it was incredible to see but i was a little shocked at how poor g to looked after a full week of prep were. They knew they were already seen cracks right. Like this wasn't a surprise this weekend that they were going to look a little poor. I didn't do anything over the past seven days. That made me think they actually prepped. Particular showdown at minimum. They should have taken it to five games have been able to this. Matchup is close enough to where you should have been able to take it to five games. and yet they're just. It looked like there was no hope of that happening. Basically inspired was a monster inspired arson both so so good and this is i think this is a series. This weekend really honestly has kind of cemented. Haunt saw in my mind is top. Three eighty carries good. He was so he played very very well. Do we want to kind of the each game. Oh sorry kings court is just going to say like there's a huge stylistic difference between like the way reckless for example plays and the way hans somma plays on some a. He's got a reputation for like some international performances any domestic performances of of like teen going too aggressive. But he's like that eighty carry. That doesn't care about his katie. So he'll do crazy shit to win a team fight whereas reckless type of eighty kerry. Who was like. He's so focused on not dying the yeah. He has very impressive stat lines. He does a lot of damage still but he's knocking him. Always make the crazy play whereas you're going to always trust on somma to make the crazy play. I think that that worked out really well for rogue interesting because that plays into the one victory that has their very first game. What is reckless playing is playing center. He's dealing damage from a thousand miles away and that was their only success then picked gin which is another champion that you deal damage from one thousand miles away you can or you hope to at the very least you play very well in that second game. Top of the map completely. Yeah man not un- installing. Wow did not do it for wonder because had himself a motherfucking series which is in stark contrast to what happens in the next series which is pretty wild. Let's talk what some pics to knock turn. We had a nocturnal like flex choice here in the series which was really fun to see but then when g to played it with the jungle it didn't look like he really knew what he was doing with it and oto played it and the top plane of all things looked fantastic. It looked phenomenal in that kind of i think plays into. Maybe i think it was jack saying that they may have had a poor read on the matter was that odin was g to felt weird. This series i felt grow was happy to play an older style with italy and lilia and g. to just with a worse comp in that kind of older team setup that we were seeing all the way through the beginning of this split but we know coming into this playoffs. There was a huge patch. Change and a lot of big picks were really not contested in this series like they should have think or he should have been picked bam like she has been sandwiches on cap. We've seen that be phenomenal on. Both definitely was banned not so much she wants games like no one's business. It is really weird to see both and we talked about this a little bit last week but to see both the finals from an and then the picks being so different because the different patches kind of obnoxious bill yeah. Why don't you pick a right. You don't want that pick section. I couldn't even more because now good etc anything else before we eulogize gamers as well no really got nothing else to talk about. I feel like there's a lie again to hear it. The old kings are dead man. The oil kings are dead. There's a new rain. Yeah i almost had wanted to suggest calling this episode regicide. After saturday and then sunday happened. Things get wild. Yeah this is a great fucking weekend and we're gonna talk more about rogue But real quick gamers as well. We gotta do some sort of eulogy. We've done it for every team. We gotta hit him with this Vacation time that's it. That's all i've got gamers to it's another. Msi vacation things something's change. Something's remained the same very used to it in fact i'm pretty sure that they called their weekly series video. That came out today vacation. Time or something similar to in on the joke. When was the last time wonder yangos. Mickey got got some time off so a tournament. This might be good for them. Finally having some time or they can take off and like actually relaxed. Maybe not think about league for a week or two. I don't know when the last time they got to do that was except for wonder who think about until he comes in and plays the game after with this victory. Three one emphatic. Victory three in a row after dropping game one against a sarafin mid by rogue over gamers to they advance to the finals. The next day against mad lions. This series is a fucking banger. It is so good it is incredible five games all the way through. We get to run through every emotion. Possible we get to see major strengths from both teams. We get to see exactly what they do. Well we also get to see their weaknesses. Exploited really really affected reverse sweep the hypothesis of all in the your drako's have an emotional breakdown in the middle. Yeah it was an incredible series if you have any time and you have not watched anything. Stop what you're doing. Now give us five stars and then go ahead and open up the five game series here because it is so much fun it is absolutely worth your time games five stars. The each of the game is five stars absolutely and we get. We deserve one-star for each game. Just exactly about it Definitely check it out. It is incredible. This is when we really got a dive into. We can't just give us a little once-over treatment like we give the semi's let's start with game one. Jack's talk to me about rogue versus mad lions game one because rogue starts off on the hot foot all right so rogue actually wins the first two games but for game one. The story of the game. Frankly was inspired. Just right place right time. Every time and hans obama larson were there to fucking carry when he was rose heiress pitching. Yeah raphael and various. I really liked watching this deal there so much locked down here. I'm loving i'm loving. We're seeing the various comeback. But it's not fucking with olive all sold on hit various it's fucking actual creek. Varis feels like season three again. Let's go to hustle. Plays it very very well. He hits so many arrows. It was brutal dude. His embarrasses empowered. W if you have three blighted if you're like three blade stacks on you. Dead shit hurts. Hong saba was phenomenal at proctoring. Legal tempo landing on absolutely hitting you with something to profit was every single time. It's walk down to portland. He was doing it. Jus- repeated a crazy to watch and something that repeated honestly throughout all five games except for maybe game five is the strength of the rogue. Bottling this is a team that's really been heralded for how well oto omni has made either in the strong side but mostly the weak side But we actually got to see to two kills. I think almost every actually every single game every rogue got a to kill. Yeah think so. Yeah that feels right. It's either four out of five or five games. They got a straight up to be to kill on either karzi or kaiser really just getting them in the two and it translated game one two and then it failed to work as successfully because the top side of the map doesn't go their way. Give our mood focusing. Woo calling to Oh man we're going to get to that in a second but let's talk game two. We can really break these down. Game by game we get the oriented pick here in the mid lane from rogue which is really fun. And we've already talked about it like this is a big pick and they actually do focus on it in this game five series and it's really weird that it wasn't showing up the day before at all and then i mean this is a typical road game right. They get ahead. They just choke out mad lions. You'll you'll you can literally do nothing. Because in the versus hecker matchup. If one of them gets ahead then they get to outrun outpace out outgained the other. That's really it and there's nothing unfortunately the mad can do but game to odin talk to us about game too because things aren't quite as smooth for rogue throughout this entire match gate to is even closer. You still are watching it and you're like okay. Rogue rogue looks good but mad lines is putting up much more pressure this time through with again just and then this this is elliott bringing the volleyball and just gagging constantly jumping on top of people flying in from left and right and it looks scary. Rogue is having a hard time with it. There's a lot of objectives flying back and forth. That's fucking i. If this was the game that was full four four right before they before they waited for the learn everything just an absolute does like slaughter and then rope pulls it out again for an e for a finally that second win and but you're feeling you're seeing what mad has in the tank and road just scrape that game to write off the bottom of what's really interesting watching. All of these games for both regions is how little the gold graph has to really matter in the late game team fight. We see multiple times in both the previous series with g two and rogue in this series and in the series over north america that the team with the significant anywhere from three to six k gold. Advantage isn't necessarily team that actually pulls out a victory in a team fight. This is usually like post thirty minutes or so. So items may not have really had that much of an impact because it's a pretty close their already close to full build at cetera. But even then i mean this mad team loses the final fight despite being up by six k. Despite having three ocean drake's it doesn't matter. That's why i mean you always start telling people that watch league. Oh no the the numbers. The big numbers. That are the kills. That's not like the score right. Like team with a more kills isn't necessarily winning. I you also get to a point where you have to accept the same thing for gold. I mean it comes down to team composition it comes down to team up positioning in fights that is the biggest factor and who's going to win those like mtm prices who sets out for them better and who execute on them and yeah. It's crazy that like the series was still so close because then we go on into series red lion just stars like outperforming in these team play. This game was so close that when ended rogue had to in hibs down yup. Yeah this is like the definition of the closest possible game. You can have more or less this series. I think the mvp for the series has to be like the winners because mad lions does does win it. What do you think maybe he. That's that would be a great choice. I think it has to go to like armlet because his individual play was phenomenal. However both of these teams live or die by the performance of their midlanders and they went. Tit for tat. The entire series and the winner of every game was the one who made the most late-game impact every single time. In fact oftentimes han summa and or karzi were dead and all that mattered was whatever one mid lehner could out damage. The that happens. So many times you midlanders dude. It's just built different. The first two games humanoid does well leaning and is fine but then when it comes down to like the mid to late game team fights completely falls apart in fact that in the second game the entire turning point is he. just whiffs a shockwave. Ultimate at barron soul or. Excuse me barrasso dragon. Like he whiffs it and that's the go button broken. Just go in. Because there's what like potential five k. Worth of damage just gone. That's like not only the damage their entire team fight like. That's the of the nar altea. That's the combos into the nar. Altea right it's like the volunteer engaged with the ball on top of them like that's their primary engaged. Yeah he scoffs it and rogue just takes advantage and runs it over and that gives them the opening they need but game three onwards their fortunes. Churn humanoid were members to play league of legends past fifteen minutes and things get real fucking scary for rogue themselves odin. You wanna talk to me about game three a little bit here. Who did three really juicy because road comes in with an interesting. Comp karma top interests. Donna donna midland and then caitlyn morgon about bottling which we haven't seen it all recently going into leona israel hoping to have a bunch of shields disengaged try to keep the kong volunteer leona off of them. Yeah that works. Within our isn't the god of lancs like he's been learning from odom nays years of playing league of legends and he learned all the best puck and flank routes and just every single team fight. This game are mood is behind them. Alternate and rogue. Just can't do it. Just can't win these fights benz of get super hard for them. And this is what we really start seeing that put on the gaps and really show rogue how. They're going to play the rest of the series. Yeah mads entire team calm. I mean the the listen to this. It's woo com volley bear oriana azriel and leona just go. Yeah it's a massive go buttons. It's giant good luck one ability much less all one black sheep. Yeah there's only so much you can do and you could try to keep the caitlyn alive. But if someone's caitlyn doesn't matter you can maybe stop the leonal. You can even stop them from getting knocked up by wu kong. But it's still just she's gonna come down and you have a full squishy could smacked a great draft great adaptation by mad lions to pick something. That's really atypical. In the loop on top and it really is just the impetus for this real hard turnaround from the success. That rogue was having in game one and game two to what ended up happening here in game three. I just was still close as hell by the way. I just believe that gave it over two games in a row like the hong did so well in game three. But it's that you just don't expect worth it a lot of times if that happens. You're just like okay. That was a fluke right. We're just gonna play leading face different. We're gonna play. The team fights different. We're going to be aware that there's a kong so we're not going to allow him to flank. Did the same thing happened. Yeah so it's it's kind of the hubris of that right. But what. I imagined those calls being like when you leave a pickup because it's only one game in a best of five and you're up to two to one of the series you're probably like okay so we'll was annoying but now we know how to deal with it. Yes you the i don. I don't know this is like me. Kinda spit ball what the thought process should be how it goes and that makes sense but then after losing to it twice they still wait till second round of bands to ban it in game five. They're lucky that mad didn't just pick at the end of the first rotation of picks or are they lucky because it doesn't matter the and you're so would have changed their fortunes unfortunately or fortunately game four. Let's jump into this. We get a lot of larsen on eighty carries this series. This leon tristen third game. We get them back on the lucien here. In fourth games does this qualify as an official shellacking twenty four minutes. This one was brutal. Was this close. I think this one was close for breaking the record of fastest game in a final. I think missed it by like a minute and thirty seconds. But it's damn close is pretty much just ellia in armoo running around the whole map just destroying everyone and the game was actually close most of it and then and armoo like are just like okay. No we're not even going to give them a chance. No no flicker of hope here just crush and then barron spawns and then they get it immediately and then the game just ends. That's kind of a common trend not common but not an uncommon trend. I guess i should say for both this series and the final in north america. The twenty minute or twenty one minute. Barron happen to have a fight. I don't think either teams planet out accordingly. But they happened to take a fight. They do it cleanly enough that they can just churn and pick up the baron on spawn and then just march into the enemy base. Losing well here does not work so well in north losing a baron at twenty minutes feel so bad because you just lose so much off of it you do not have the stats to clear barron minions like at all you don't die mana. Yeah you're screwed. Which is what happens here. Twenty two minutes start breaking the base and then it's another fight that's game that's it. That's all she wrote. This is a brutal clapback by mad. Lions really putting rogue on the ropes but to their credit rogue doesn't just crumble right. They've now given up two zero lead there even to to they're going into really high pressure game five wherein they let this weird pocket pick through twice in a row. They still insist letting it through. They did doesn't get picked against them. Which is one great thing for them. However they still aren't able to pull it out despite a much better early game winning watch much better early game like they were up like seven or eight k gold to that and this is let's see what are they guy once again. They have the senate. Tom canche bottling so really strong. Power bottling there. They get back on the respect in which he picks into the naria believe And then they have. What i think is the strongest pick here and it doesn't work out for them. Is they get the rise. Midland dude imprint soared. She tried so hard. There is like three or four team fights where he was not the last one alive but he was the only dps left handsome had already fallen and he almost killed everyone so many times. The problem was kept being almost right. Yep almost only counts in horseshoes. Enhance your needs and a really came down to. There's a single fight around mid lane that he cannot get access to. He's unable to get in there. Will everyone else's in this giant may lay it is the most perfect time for rise at the one. Who's just you just has to walk all the way round and it takes six seconds and by the time he gets there everyone's dead. Yeah due to the geography of the map. He stuck in the river as everyone else's fighting on the other side of the wall near the mid turret and it takes him. He sits there trying to cast spells over the wall but he can't quite hit me one. And so for a couple of seconds. He's dancing back and forth as a victor is just unleashing unholy hell upon the entire front line of rogue by the time he's able to arrive fights over baby that's it and that's the turning point. The game is no longer in rogue's control at that point and this is the. This is what i said earlier right. The mid lehner's humanoid is able to unleash everything he's got while. Poor larson is sitting there staring in like javert from les miserables. Just looking in the window like please just a person i can throw this at doesn't workout for him and unfortunately rogue doesn't work out for them they get another three dragon lead. This happens a lot. Three dragon leads and then just can't quite close it out can't get the soul and finished the game twenty five minute. Mark is really when things completely turned on their head and rogue loses control. Mad lines still by the way after that fight. They're still six k. Doubt gold wise. It doesn't change anything but this ties. Into what i was talking about earlier. The money is all on the tanks so they can take a little bit longer but there's not enough damage to follow it up and actually finished the fight against this mad lines team. This is why relected doesn't skit. He scales better than it used to. But it's still not quite there. Oh i loved this series banger. I i'm so sad that my team did not make the finals. But i am more than happy enough after watching this mad rogue fucking slam. I was a blast. I love watching both of these teams play and seeing them in finals like this is incredibly refreshing a longtime time fan and the way they played play belonged there. This wasn't some you know. Oh the finals. We're gonna play kind of scared where to play released safe. Neither of these teams played it safe. They were aggressive geico. It worked out better for rogue early than it did for mad and then it's swapped a little bit then it's swapped back There's a lot of hope. I think here for people who are worried about either. The growth of l. e. c. is a whole or just are showing really as the from the west in msi or world's things are looking really good out of the would like to mention one thing before we move on from lic We were talking earlier about like oh who should. Mvp for this npr. That can we give mvp for his casting. Loved this guy. Him and together are a really high energy color combo which is interesting to see. You don't see that a lot but like during that series drako's was said earlier having an emotional breakdown route but then it was careful and enter that. We're also picking it up like getting just as excited as a play by play typically does but it worked i. I actually liked to the balance a lot because it felt so authentic. They weren't forcing excitement at it. Wasn't like okay. They're just like artificially raising the stakes. Here they were all just really excited to watch that game and it was really fun to hear that kind of balance. Yeah i i agree. I think angel enter the whole cast and trio works. Really well for me. Yeah this is a really good I don't want to call it an upgrade but it's different than what we've usually gotten in the finals right for even the but lcs as well to get a really solid trike cast that worked particularly in this way. Yeah total joy absolutely worth it worth the price of admission which is zero. Yeah speaking of mad lions. Fix your store website please. I want to buy some. This is really good. I think we've eulogized every team. Let's talk about rogue jacks. Would you like to eulogize this rogue roster and their performance throughout the spring split. I mean i'm just sad because like someone had to win mad. Lions fucking deserved it but roque fucking deserved it to like so well. They stepped up so hard like they deserve all the props and they should not feel bad about losing man lions. They played their fucking hearts out. Yeah that seems fair. All right my turn. Mad lines boy. What a see. I did not think that they had it in them. I thought for sure. Youtube is going to come back. Have learned their lesson and clapham that did not happen and i said that we team and i think actually faced off better against you mad. Lions were a team. I think that was going to be able to deal with rogues attack plan and after seeing the first two games. I was like shit. There's going to be a quick three zero. I guess but the mental fortitude this team displayed. This is a team that last time they were in a do or die situation they collapsed completely but swapping in illinois has been just an absolute rejuvenation of this entire team from start to finish the way they pulled out all three games. I cannot love anything any more than i love. Armagh turning the camera after game two and saying three two and then doing it again directly on camera after they won the third game three to like that is the big dick swinging. I wanna see from representative at an international event. Yeah our moods. Staring into the camera was so. I've missed somebody like him. We need that. We need that cocky confidence. It seems to be something that comes out of turkey because broken blades. Done the same thing or something. Very similar on the shock over roster. Let's talk my god. Is this guy really a rookie. Holy shit like his own. Mental fortitude is insane his smarts the way he reacted appropriately the way he could pull the trigger instantly knew where to be adaptability to everything that was happening was just like off the charts and then humanoid the one thing. What is the one thing. I've always said about humanoid you guys remember the one thing you stop dying in the sideline and things will work better. Because incredible. he's alive and the problem for a while was just trying to stay alive. And i was the problem game one and two and then he figured it out. Stop dying boom instantly. Honestly the mvp. Just stop forehead. Yeah. just don't die for head. Come on mortar to kaiser had it right. Death is the strongest form. See you don't die you don't get. Cc'd game over karzi remembered how to play league of legends. When it mattered the post which is the past. He had been struggling with this. The entire split really carried by his entire team but figured it out particularly in game three onwards pulling out the signature. Azriel it's very helpful to be as slippery as as real when you're struggling and got back into form still continue to give kills in the two but it didn't end up mattering in the end and kaiser came. Back is the king of the entire rift. The last three games. Superfund so excited to see this team redeem themselves on the international stage. Cool any final words or thoughts about l. e. c. before we hop over the pond if if they don't make groups that msi. Can we remove the major region status from lic. i think that's a little cruel to a whole. Which has performed well. However i would say we should force mad lines to change their name to sad kittens i agree. I'm glad we found a good compromise with that. We're gonna just had to make the european fans a little salty. Gotta leave him salty. 'cause we're crossing the ocean baby and we're heading down to not downtown santa monica because that's technically not where the greek theater is which is where the semi final and final were for the l. c. s. finals this weekend which were to fantastic series despite team liquid after this about their starting juggler and bringing in greg or are mayo as all of the mayonnaise based jokes to make very clear. I still think our mouths. Funnier up stick with that. Let's talk the first series checks. I'm not even gonna make you talk about. Team liquid verse. Tsm instead kangaroos talk show. I'm not. I'm going to make things for you at some point in the near future. So don't worry this. Just you know pumping the brakes a little bit kangaroos. Do you wanna start us off by talking about. Tsm versus team liquid. I would love to. What a series dude. Tsm and team liquid came for blood and they came with a really really fun. Just fiesta games too. I mean rwanda memes skiing i. I don't know how good i feel. Ears but by heart was happy. My brain might have been a little confused by some of it. But i think overall. Ib the facts. I just want to give props to mow or mayo. I'm going to say are mayo. I can't get on this strand. Sorry shawn are mayo. Standalone for actually showing up. I mean this i. I don't know if anyone's been dead. She the like the amateur academy's right out of the proving grounds. But i got to watch this guy. Be the first team knocked out approving ground team looking academy first. They was the first day of god and they got the second academy and looked like me. They might be favorites in that whole tournament. Then he goes from that earlier in the week to actually just it in the last minute for team liquid and showing up here in a series and i think he actually played pretty well like. I don't think he was at all like getting carried throughout the entire series. You've had a pretty good performance so I think if you're team liquid. You're just like hey. at least. We made finals right. I mean we all know what happened on sunday. But this is not what i expected i thought after hearing that it was gonna be r instead of being torn was like yep. That's that's going to be like a three one. Dsm maybe a three tm honestly but it really show. What how. I expect them to. So i was okay you to describe the series in very simple to understand terms team liquid played two games vs in one two of them and then they lost one team. Liquid guy really really angry angry team liquid in game four because didn't get a single kill team liquid. Got nineteen of them. Yup that's the closest. I think we've gotten to a perfect game in a playoff setting and specifically third place. Final setting like mike. God this this game was just it was. It was watching. It was so unreal. Because it's like how can they. They can't keep getting away with it right like team liquid. Just the keep making it out by the skin of their teeth and then. Tsn gets nothing from it and it was so sad but same time. Like can't be can't be that said but on the flip side. I would also like to say we saw jensen troll the fuck out of its team. A couple of times in this series unreal levels of troll like this. She would get reported and solo. Yeah there were some really poor choices. Made from both teams over the entire series. Was i old. We're also kind of fun to watch just like basic things most of the time except for when he didn't write plays inviting. You didn't do this. Not in this series next. He does get caught a couple of times in his old and dies in the next one. And we're gonna get there eventually. This is a really weird series. Just like overall yeah we. We saw that any pick from johnson counterrevolution. Which didn't work. I mean it didn't feel like it. Works were team. Likud won the game but definitely wasn't because of the anti. I really wonder if this is straight up. Just the twitter poll or jensen was like like what like come on. But it was game to won the game but it wasn't because of jensen at all. Faris monster gangplank. That's all that matters. And the nocturne combo which is just insane to deal with a squishy like lilia. Lujan donnas what are they gonna do about that thought. It was really interesting. Because i may be wrong. And you guys can correct me here. The nocturne pick seem to me to be more of an eleven six. Pick and eleven six tech. But it's being used to great effect here and eleven five. I guess it helps to maybe be up against the lilia. Which least dominant in technically. Get to me. i don't think it did. I think these others got nervous more than anything else. And the big thing about the nocturne is again just the compositions you can make with it right now because if with lilia niggly like just if it's not like an era or hack hacker lockton immediately knocked. Her is more viable. Because if you can just like blow up the enemy jungle or a single target with something like a gangplank or kaisa backing you up. That's why you pull this off. It's for the combo. It's not just for the pick itself. And i think picking it with other globals bolsters. The pick is well like it snowballs. When picking nocturnally twisted fate becomes like exponentially more scary than just justice twisted fate. And then you throw like a gangplank in there who can t from across the map teepee or do anything like that. It's just it becomes unplayable for the team right like this was Gp nocturne kinda like they go. They go in flash tapers. Yeah oh and as well by way it's just a it's just a dive com go. We were talking earlier about a go button. This is literally go button cop. It's fucking any come on on top of that though. What the hell is this. Tsm comp and game two. you've got nar lilia. Lucien tryst and groggy. Some doesn't know how to drive true. It's true it's true. Con explicitly state sets such an odd calm. Because it feels like it doesn't do anything it's like it doesn't really have like good engage like nour's engages pretty conditional ragas engages of conditional as well. It doesn't. it's not super tank. No-one on this team is super tanks. Like no science. There's no chill gaffe like sustained damage. But you're so squishy like his. Tsn takes a regular season match. And then they go into whom he gets a fucking miracle gnarled in a fucking late berry they somehow win the game and everyone's sitting there just like you know that was worst sheriff if ever seen but they still won the fucking game mike. Okay now but we we'll guardian so that's works. One thing that they have here is a lot of range like i. I feel like that's kind of the game plan was accomplished this. You just have to hope that lily bowling ball you sleep lucien. Old trish johnson gets a reset. Garages can follow up with an old stuff. Like that where you just kind of go for. They have no like the clean team fight with green. The range only works. If you don't have like if you're facing comp dives onto you like rail nocturne gp that gp slows you nocturne dives onto you relatives on any flash stunt like kaiser dyson. It's just unplayable. It feels like it kind of proved to be too. Yeah they did win one game though. Csm did win one game. Yeah they believe it's one game three is yeah which they have two backs against the wall and they pick something really normal you get the oregon recon bought lane you get the ori mid which is massively contested. Pick the whole time and you get a renewed in topside For some really good strengths. There is it just north. America thing that recons popping up or is that of over kenobi. A little. I think i've seen it in l. p. l. I remember thinks it's not an uncommon. Pick it's not super common like you still do. Tend to get the trifecta of wral groggy. Alistar to thrash it's gonna to thrash the con That's a good question. Do you know. I think it is Which matchup the thrust into the con-. Yeah yeah. I love thrash indirect on another four four rash. That's definitely favored matches. Recall three into thrashed. One on game three even the game. They want but i still feel like wise team. Tsn picking that matchup with looks. Great for jay. I'm not sure. I do think this comes down a little bit to something. We've talked about before which is sort arts chapel and is comfortable with certain things like i don't want sort are taking thrash ever seen him on like skill shots. I mean i'm looking at the bands of relatives taken off allison taken off and you already grabbed oreo. She doesn't really have a great ball. Delivery system right now so. I think that the idea is like you're kinda sacking lane partially Let's see but like i don. I don't yeah. And also on his countered by thrush to so at that point. It's like are you even more out of her. You have more engaged. Range from the recon was wait. Was al all-star still open. No he was being done. Well actually stand up to three okay. I don't know we could sit here. Podcast where we just pick and banned for them and we'd be wrong. Yeah so game they do pull it back back back against the wall and then eventually and team liquid gut. Angry team liquid showed up to very very angry. It went from our mouth to our mayo and he was ready to make a sandwich the entire. Tsa team do you guys know a little fun stat. You guys might know this one canadian one tell me how many kills whom he got over the course of the entire series. Ooh ooh yeah. No the answer you the trombone man. Yes is zero yes. It is not get a single sane. Not even one. That's how brutal this was an on assist. They won that game and he's still gonna kill tweet elected three times. Yeah i can't even say. He was playing particularly bad because the entirety of tsn was not super great over the full series. But just having a stat line like that. I kind of feel bad for him because that is going to get brought up every single best of for the rest of his life. It's like the. Oh god it's like the picture of lep. Yes literally the same thing. Just display that next to the last salary about from him. Yeah this is really rafferty. Sm fans if you didn't watch the game this weekend look away Do not. It's just not worth your time. Nothing really looks good for them. Team liquid looks a little bit rougher which you would expect but our mayo has some great plays dragon. Steals renner needs because knows no way should have gotten those but he did so really heavy props to him for stepping up. I think we need to eulogize. Team solo mid jacks. Would you like to do the honors of eulogizing this team. You know all right. Tell get to you. I know i knew this was coming. So power of evil lived up to expectations. He looked even in this series. He's still looks like the better. Mid player overall jensen and. That's saying something since he fucking lost power evil. Your beast sort lost. I think are coming together. I think come summer. They will actually threatening bottling but they clearly not quite there yet. Speak up is the best juggler. Csm has ever had four tsn. he is the first time we've ever seen at. Tsm juggler not turned into a glorified ward. Oh you're going to do the odd one like that. Yeah the odd one. He was all right. I'm not gonna disparage him. But very very very long reads yeah. He's not just being turned into award. He is still doing his own thing. He is still playing well with the team. Speakers the jungle or tsn fans have been waiting for for like yes. And i don't know how much of that is speaker himself and how much that is. Backroom stuff that has changed but whatever it is this is what. Tsm needs in the jungle. Good for speaker whom he did not completely fuck up and lose everything be shit like i expected. This is possibly the best. He's looked since coming to an a. Which is to say. I really didn't expect him to look good at all. He looks fine. Not in this series far he just straight up out classroom every everything else. The season exactly so this. Tsm roster did not suck nearly as much as i expected and they can be a threat. Come summer like how we had. The guy who had them predicted sixth-place finish to for this team. He did it. Mostly positivity can i think for the Being competitive in summer is well spring. Split matters now so it's like hey like we didn't win but like we're still in really good standings for for the rest of the season so you're gonna world. I was at least shocked remotely if dsm is simply the number three seed. Go into worlds. Yeah i could see it. The pick may be worth. It's weight will see Totally agree tsn fans this week. And may have sucked. There's some major upsides probably coming your way relatively soon. So with that said we are going to jump to the finals which was team liquid against the winner's bracket champions c nine. This is a rematch of so many matches that we've had this spring split. And i mean hundred percent lived up to it this is a fricken banger of a series wasn't and you know who gets the honor of introducing it to us. It's none other than that trombone guy. Please ian take it away and tell us about the c nine first-team team liquid spring split twenty twenty. One finals live at the greek theater with the deer. Windy and gonna go going back. Basically this home. I get this fucking series dude just game one was just like what the fuck in my watching like. The gold graph looks like like my heart rate during the game. It's it's up and down and up and down up and down and then finally forty eight minutes team could manages to close out the game but this kind of set the tone for the whole the whole series more or less with these two teams. Just slugging it out yet. We want to start game one. I think we do. But i think there's something very important that we need to talk about. And it is the very first thing that happened every single game. Oh yes so. Fudge killed fiery prefer not fudge alone. Far died every single game. I bled poplin. Four out of the five were fudge and blabber. We'll get to the fifth game later but we should save special but yes affari had no no good very bad lane phase pretty much every single game and it was. It was basically the exact opposite of what we saw in the walk in tournament the tournament we get hard gapped every single game and he just wasn't fun. It was a huge gap but this time it was the exact opposite. I don't know how much of that comes down to santorin. Not having the jungle top synergy. It just felt like blabber in fudge just playing better L. far should have respected the combo more especially when you're playing You're playing champs that are relatively easy to not feed on right Yeah so like shawn said starting off l. Far you was the target for i nine basically this entire series. They painted a target on his back and did not let up for all games. I think that's so cool considering the narrative coming into it to like okay fudge has been developing but affari is like hands down the best top leaner looking in right like house fudge gonna match-up against him and then this is what got like. That is such a turnaround from what we saw from the beginning of the season even through a lot of the season two. So it's really cool to see the cloud nine had this like such a focus strategy going into this like no. We are going to trust fudge and more so than that. We're just gonna trust like we can put al farhi behind and he will kind of stay behind Yeah for sure. It wasn't just like the fact that they killed them once like over targeted. Yeah like i said. They painted a target on his back for all five games in. Never let up on it ever. It was it was pretty brutal. However i guess we can go ahead and get into game one probably however from team liquid side. It's like hey you can't topley game. Well guess what. There's no pressure. Mid johnson does gets to have the game of his life. He goes ten and one on victor and just destroys everyone. It's ten kill victor. It's gonna show your whole team game one i. I don't even know what to say about it. Honestly other than like johnson did really well and this was just the most back and forth game. I've seen in a very long time. This game was just like rogue matt game to where it came down to the final fuck and fight and that it was just roll the dice to pretty much one. That fight won the game and team blake. What's comp was better for one hundred percent. yeah team was they. Were better for your team. Liquid compass so good you have the full tank on never dies. You have the hecker to go in for god. Tear engage the victor. Which just does insane damage lake him. I'm always surprised at how bercy this champions of being Desire in real good champions league game like always and the great thing is victor keegan. He's kind of mid range but he can play from long range if he needs to and he can fight for himself. Xichang can kind of cake for herself too. So it's like this is much less impactful. This isn't like a jinx comp where it's like oh all you gotta do is hit that ultimate on jinks through the hecker of messiah new deer running. And it's like it's it's kind of harder to get on the carriers of this. I think the seraphine comp works really well if you have something to combo with it and see nine kind of did they had the alistar but you have a callisto. Cliffs doesn't do that much damage. Late game in serafin wants to scale until late game so it feels a little bit mismatched for that. You're not going to be buffing up this callisto to do crazy things. You're not going to really be combo going into it with something. Like i dunno like alty right or anything like that. An israel alty There's there's any number of things this game was just an absolute insanity just cannot express how crazy this game was. This was like watching rocky one chest to absolute fuck heads who have no idea how to fight the just beating the shit out of each other. There's a punch getting thrown every half a second connecting straight on with the other guy's face and they're just going back and forth back and forth until finally the horsey is left standing and team liquid. Picks it up and runs it like silvester stallone to the finish line This was a really fun game. And then it sets up for a game. Two were finally they decide perks. You know what we're going to take you off the more support he midlanders. We tried it. it's worked previously. But hey how about you. Having oriana seems pretty. Hey it works like we got to see. Get to see playoff perks. This series definitively. Yeah this is a. This is a god damn bombo combo to from like the way past. We got fudge on mouth. Fighting the classic. Yep with a hecker So you had this ungodly ability to deliver the oriented anywhere. You're gone as well and caixa diving on top of advertising. What i loved about this. Is they over. Indexed on engage so much that silver spell shield was fucking useless. Only blocked the engages. We have two more that are hitting you in the same moment like you can still shield either the malfa ult- the hecker alt- oriana the q. I guess you can't really or the reconduct take your pick me up. The nine comes back but however this wasn't necessarily a clean game team liquid huge gold lead in this game. They had almost a seven gay gold lead and see nine. Caught it all the way back. I don't know what it is about c-9 in this team having the ability to a taking gold lead in throw it in be take a goal deficit in still win the game somehow. It's this team defies logic. They i think more than anything. They do a really good job of playing to exactly what they're caught wants to do. They failed to close out early enough in game one for their comp to really be the definitive one at the end and they got out scaled and they lose but in this one they actually scale really well Really really well and it's easier to pull off as the problem with the twisted fate calms is you can have a seven k gold lead but into game. You're still just a twisted fate if you're not in a side lane if you're not catching people out or you don't have like the other core for of your team. Ridiculously fat enabled the team fight. You're not gonna do that much in a team fight. Not nearly as much as an orientation cannot split versus this comp. Just you can't fight hecker him like they're going to catch you out so this is one example. I think that the gold leed. Yeah you can say oh. It's surprising because they have that goldie but then you look at the coffee. No no longer surprising was on gets the team by phase. This is a competent. Wants to team fight and absolutely. They're going to win those even if their ten k. Behind right there as long as they find the writing gauge they gotta kill the fights over The big problem here more than anything was the fact. That team liquid gave up to drake's at all if no drinks are given up to see nine like there's no longer that neutral objective the needs or split pusher to join. You can sack a few drinks but that didn't happen. Because by the time that twisted fate was able to like just solo turrets and three or five seconds every neutral objective had to be fought over in a five five in his old range like he can't split he has to be at least somewhat close to the objective true. This split push comp. I like it. That i'm seeing it from an a team. I liked it. They're trying it but then we're also seeing why it's harder to pull off not only just in general for any teams but also in this meta. It's fucking tough to do a one three one and really like do it. Well unless you have nocturne right. You've got some pretty obvious. Thirty second global game two done and dusted one to one game. Three and start us off. Maybe oh man. I mean. Just continuing the hype. C-9 falls behind ever so slightly early and then the balloon. This gold lead into about five k. Ish and they throw a little bit come back a little bit through a little bit more and then finally they win one definitive team fight in the game. But just oh my god this this entire series game like game three included. We're just absolutely nuts. Like the like you were saying that. Nocturne pick from blabber It's great to see you love to see it Making it work real. Well i'm I'm a little questioning on the affiliates. Pick from team liquid in this game. How does everyone else feel about this. I love you like it. I'm fine with him. Fellows is and specifically threats. You really need the thrash. As long as it's paired with for a thrashing the okay really do want it. It could be really strong especially if your enemy has dive you really as fellows want to be dove into With the different types of guns. There's so many different methods that you can utilize to either. Save yourself or just deal insane amounts of damage so long as you're cutting backwards This is not bad. The biggest problem for me actually isn't necessarily the affiliates pick which is into a nocturne. It's into it actually works really well. The biggest problem. I have is the twenty minute. Baron attempt by team liquid when they're in the lead and oriana using her own to secure the barron which ends up in a four man. Wipe like they they lose everything of it. Takes is one hundred gold bear in play us. Really bad yeah. Momentum was gone at that point it's why like it was. I loved the idea. Twenty minute barron. They could have peeled off if they wanted to. They would have gotten rid of at least one teleport from c. Nine they could still thought they would have been okay. The disengaged said they decided to go for it. Maybe armao are mayo's excuse me doesn't communicate that he has or doesn't have smart. I don't remember what the deal is. But oriana holt. Secure it seven hundred thirty. Hp or something just like blew my mind because as soon as signs saw that they're like oh yeah we go we go and not only can they just go. They have literal single button presses. That are needed to go. Yeah not all. Victor all had real every one of these champions just pressing a single button and just goes. Yeah karma shield. Yeah full mantra shield. The craziest part is like perk. Starts this fight at like twenty percent health like he gets jumped out in the like lead up to the baron and he still. Is there like a double kill and puts out tons of damage. Also i just wanted to say. This is the draft that is worth watching simply for zale spinning a yarn. At the first round bands he sees italy he sees lilia. He sees hecker band. He talks about how they're trying to funnel the the jungle to a certain choice. Talk about like when they want to force it to like an dear olaf choice and that's that's whereas ails brain is and captain flowers then comes back and he's just like man you look at these bands and you spend all this story this why you're the smart guy. That does the smart talkie stuff. Because i look at them and i'm like they'll four legs heard in any and van years love much. It's such a good due to you've got so much the seriousness in zale and then camp flowers sitting there saying what did he say in that. Tweet i don't know i'm not saying it. Out loud recording medium. You guys can all check out zale and and kevin flowers twitter feed long than i am proud of to realize it in. Italy has four legs in the cougar. The regardless of we were talking about like the shockwave and with ping and all that. But -til still wins this game. It felt like eventually fell. Eeo just he's kind of inevitable if he gets the yeah just murders. Everything and cloud nine. Did not have a mega tank. That could sit on a fellas face for a second. Did i did question the affiliates. Pick earlier mainly just. Because i am personally. I'm not the hugest fan of it. I feel like the Relying on the thrash lantern can be heavily exploited. We've seen it many times before but it did work out in this game But yeah it was like team. Liquid takes takes the lead in the series. But it's not. It's not the cleanest game not lake at all. Yeah it's not convincing all right anything else game through forgo came for not really. I think at the beginning of the game. I confuse the gold graph by accident because they use the us like the c nine. -til blue color for team liquid gold Got it yep. The blue red as always been perfect. Let's talk game. Four we get fudge back on the garages top. Which is something. We've seen him perform incredibly well on probably a single best champ all split we do get the rail alistar bottling which is just like par for the course we once again. Victor victor victor victor. And then something that hasn't been popping up much at all in a for some reason. Although we're seeing it. I think a lot more around the world zoe for all my god. This is all was hush for local. yeah can't gets. Do you want to talk us through game for i mean is. This one doesn't matter because all it took was one bullshit bubble. I have no idea how that didn't hit core. Jj you look back at that replay. Five people right is i feel so bad for tactical ziya you you have ultimate the self field for those situations and flash. Nobody expects that bubble that actually land in that moment. You think okay. One of my teammates is going to get by blog or by bog does or i mean maybe they just didn't see it coming like usually pro play. You expect zoe bubble ripe but like it just looks to me like core. Jj whistle yeah. I'm going to walk. No worry i got this and then don't gauge on the role and we can so fucking hecker and fly over. The wall is sold alastair. Wait a sec. Be this this entire game for was just perks. Bubble like those. The entire story of this It was such a close tense game in the now bubble landed and as soon as you saw the words drowsy appear above tackles head it was like oh no is like i don't think i don't think he can live through this dive t. l. The dragons set up they were break there that vision. They will waiting for it. It was going to pop up. They were gonna take it and they were gonna fuck in. Move on and win the game. They were going to deny cnn from getting soul in to another. Yes do it. Was poking team manages to pull everything out of their ass. Somehow it's amazing. Ganga's i mean i just i. I'm in shock. That cloud nine were able to actually pull that one off. Like i still do be fair. They were doing very well throughout the game. Really if we if we actually break down the game they were stacking those dragons. They had gold lead for like the entire time so for most of it. Yeah very small. But it's still you know d- perks. Zoe was popping off but like dealer able to get the baron. And you expect at that point. It's like okay now. Comp is really gonna come online the a lot of range with things like the nar he can also split push for my impression of the sideline jensen to poke under turret. But they just didn't quite like break the base enough and then they yep you'll back for that dragon and then that fight happened so it's like it was a game that felt like it could have gone either way throughout the whole time. It's like oh hey club. Small leads or doing well. Then he'll get that it's like okay cool. Now they're going to swing back to golden their favor but if it just comes down up like that was the deciding factor entire game would also i wanna i wanna go out of my way to say. This series felt like a battle of blabber doing his thing but it was like a battle of the mid leaders to me. It was jensen versus perks. Fighting it out this entire series in this game that both midlanders doing almost identical damage actually twenty. Five point six k from perks. Twenty five point five k from jensen and they both did absolutely the most damage on their team in team fights if you watch them it's just you know throwing like altea laser q hiding his ass off right stunned fields zoning off the whole team and then perks just laying paddle star after paddle star landing these insane. Sleepy trouble bubbles that by the way that wasn't the only good bubble that he had another one where he was like point blank on a tactical but as soon as that bubble landed is well. It was like you saw the entire. Just go right And this is what sean was talking about earlier is seen playing to their wind conditions. And i mean. Hey if i guess if you're wind condition is a single ability from perks. Fuck it though you gotta do. We gotta do i. I also i guess we. We should probably say that like that. That didn't lose tim. Liquid the team fight immediately. It was then the following flanked by perks. scalia. Double-play buy perks because jensen was still alive and we saw throughout the weekend. If the mid leaner victors alive he can carry team. Fight eighty carries dead. But it's the way cloud. I'm played after that bubble after that pick under tactical. That's what was really beautiful because like everyone feels onto dragon. But then vulcan stays out perks. Wraps all the way around the blew off into could strangle and just keeps pressuring jensen whose to frontliners are like below fifty percent. Hell so really tough position for deal to play out from there. They could have though. I still think that they had a chance if they had just committed to say cordray jay. You're going to die but you're gonna engage into the dragon pit and then maybe gen or yeah. Johnson can kind of clean up and try and do some more damage there. But it's hard. It's really hard in that position to say that maybe could have just backed off. Said we're not gonna fight them for older dragon. We still have three up so we can reset and just wait the two minutes off elder dragon maybe give it up in a inhibitor for it but there's all hindsight right like this is all like us as you know. Armchair analysts say the wrong thing. That decision has to be made in a split second after the bubble land. All of that. Well i mean. They had a moment of respect. They actually had a moment after the kind of fight broke off where it all three members of team liquid cordial foreign jensen back off towards blue. Buff and you can tell they. Make the decision as three to wrap around contest at the elder drake. They just don't actually pull off the contests. Are we talking about the same. Fight the crazy. It's a long fight. it's a very long. I thought i thought i thought tackle just died instantly at the start of the fight after the bubble he does. Yeah no no. this is just cordray jail far in jensen. Did i say taxable. I'm sorry if you probably the fra a frontline at jensen that are alive. Yeah okay i'm sorry. That was my bed. So good But yeah so at that decision. At that point it was a decision by team. Liquid to try and reengage pertz still played it so well as it's like he wants team liquid decided initially not to back off the base and they tried to contest perks had at that point rotated and blocked off escape pass so then they didn't have a choice after they're like well screw were stuck here now and then they all die and then cloud nine proceed to win so yeah it comes under the bubble but there was still decision-making from team liquid. That wasn't quite where i think it needed to be. Just i felt like this game. If tactical had taking cleanse team like what would have won the game to simply because the whole game i felt like fudge was a liability. He went this api groggy build. That felt like he didn't fucking do anything. Except in the one fight where that bubble lands fudge lands the lands his damage. That's the only time fudges damage was ever factor in this game hitting it when it counts. Yeah but at the time had tactical had cleanse fudges damages never relevant. He's just a shitty squishy groggy. Voice team lynnwood have won this game. There's a lot of what's in this game. Yeah there's a lot of what if a baby trump. And i think this whole finals because of the fact that it's just slugfests for the most part it's a whole series of what it. Yeah ok. okay which makes it so fun. Can we talk about game five now though. Yeah i mean set it up for okay all right end of game for we had a new comp new look from seni- they needed to get this. Poke comp ahead somehow in order to actually have any hope of winning because otherwise the team fights will never come online. They find it in a miracle bubble. They get the even the series to to into we're now into rocky five and if anyone's seen all the rocky series congratulations. I haven't i have no idea what happens on the first two but in this particular rendition rocky five game. Five of the lcs flit starts with god damn haymaker out of left field my lord. We saw something that made six little here up a little bit. Wherever he currently is maybe still employed by hundred thieves. Ian talk to us about game five. Okay so it. I guess it all starts with draft c-9 nine drafts syon silas tristan. A- an alice star and ceylon is the crucial part of all of this. So what happens is blabber perkins vin ended up invading. Our mayo's topside jungle and they take the buffs and everything. It's like okay. Cool but then what fudge does is he goes and executes to the blue buff slash grop intakes. Both of them. i think. And which means that. There's nothing for our mayo to go take in vertical jungle with so c nine. Just got like a thousand gold lead from the very start of the game because not only did they take the crop in the blue buff with the The syon on passive they sent their bottling fucking toppling to gang l. Far from behind like he wasn't ready for the tristan alistar to come from behind him after they took the blue buff so he was pushed up in the top lane and it was it was a level one. Kill for then. It was like i. I just what what what is happening like. This is the most insane level. One i've seen in years. It was in the cast. Were freaking out and it was just. It was insane. It was one of the most five head plays. I've ever seen this. This was an amazing throwback to the good parts of the lane swap meta before it became the four zero turret pushes. Yeah i thought was really interesting about this was the this was obviously. The strategy and draft like they. Clearly were drafting for this. It didn't just show up as like. Okay here's our here's what we can do. I think the snow. They said they'd been because they said they'd been practicing this from a long time. And they I think is blabber. Said that they were waiting for the right time to pull it out and holy shit the fucking balls on this team to not pull out this comp. When they're in an elimination game in game four they saved it until game five. It's it's hilarious. There's actually a in the amateur scene. There's a team called zoos gaming and their juggler rbm really big name. I don't know if anybody remembers aim at all but he. He tweeted during that game. He was like by the way we both grimm's and our scrim partners wanted to quit the game because they said nobody would ever use this. This this is a strategy that has been going around like it's kind of it's a rogue strategy but it is known by players in the pro to amateur scene. So it's kinda cool that yeah cloud i willing to do it. And we saw them execute it utterly perfectly like flawlessly because they even got the kill in toppling. because it's a fucking show gas pick. He can't get away. I don't think this actually pans out as well as it does without them. Picking up that kill. That was mass so far behind. Al far is behind. Now you're gonna chill gap and they kept putting him behind that game. It was like it wasn't just the one kill. He went to seven that game. And that's a bad matchup for on and now suddenly it doesn't matter so it was like everything that could go well for c. Nine did everything they could possibly terribly also team also. Oh my god perks in this game or just absolutely playing an out of his mind. Silence game i love watching this champion so much. One the threes at one point in this game and wins and kiss all three. And it's just like that's that's illegal chant this interest talking about this like it starts draft. And you're talking about the syon. And i was like to purge pullout silos in game five. I me and my roommate were watching. Four round four counter. That was the final pick of drafts by the way. My roommate looked at me and said this game's over perks. Cloud nine win. Malysz had been banned in two games. This series by cloud nine toga hecker already available like some tasty altis. I've never seen a silence. Just dive in the enemy. Victor does for the. He'll real quick and then back out again and just like over and over and over and he knew jensen couldn't trade back order so he would just chest. Bump in the middle of the bucket laid juice just just to see if you do anything and he just won't just the most chad silence play. I have ever seen just comes in his ear and lays it out his first all was taking our mayo's old when our mayo's level for cops i. I saw purse coming up. Wait is he gonna like. How can he do anything here. I'm like oh. He's two levels up. The juggler office this was was this the match that had the. Oh god what are you doing. Our mail was that this one where you just like stuck around the top lane just to die again or is that a different match I don't remember a moment specifically like that. The moment that i'm referencing he tries to just go for a gang. Forget flash out of fudge cool. But then they perk shows up perks. Perks walks up through the heck rooms altea because at the time he might have been the only one that was level six in the whole game at that point. But this is also this. I wanted to point out in this game specifically the difference in macro play between perks jensen because they both played very very different games. This game perks roamed almost the entire game. It felt like he was constantly like twenty or thirty us down the jensen but every time he would roam he would make something happen he would get kill snowball elaine taken objective. Something and jensen didn't really rome. At all he stayed in lane and farmed and he really roma's victor. Like you need those minions act especially with new victor. It was like you know. Once once the team fights started rolling around it was like okay. You have a twenty s lead. I've been making things happen all across the map. The entire rest of my team is ahead now. And it's a team game so yeah just two very different place aisles. This game and perks. Just giving an absolute masterclass and how to rome in effect your lanes as amid leaner who needs to far millions when you can farm dr carver's steaks and champions. This was a gts burks perks online. This is we we talked about this. We've talked about this a lot. When was the last time you saw a perks. Popoff game right and we did see that a little bit throughout the playoffs. But i don't think anything exemplified of more than these two last games the finals. And if you're going to show up it's the last two elimination rounds positive way for you to actually where is perks in his comfort zone. When he's down in his back is against the wall and he comes out in just destroys everyone every time the the g. tube playoff buff looks like it was mostly perks. Buff more than anything. Also i just want to put it out there because it's hilarious as much as van. Did not like the outdoor venue. at least it meant. He couldn't break the trophy when he lifted up. This is a lot harder. Lcs trophy is definitely still significantly lighter than the elliott trophy which almost draft because he was not expecting it to be so they had like two or three people holding at any given point. I thought that was. They didn't learn. Don't make it heavy. They don't do arm day. Come on or at least have canvas be the trophy presenter. Yeah i was Basically for for team liquid versus nine. I was thinking in my head which before the series. Which team would. I rather have represent in a. It's msi regardless of who. I want to win the series. Which team would. I rather have represent us in my conclusion. It came down to see nine only slightly probably sixty forty nine. My reasoning for. That is because i think that team liquid plays a very safe game for the most part. They play very traditional league of legends. And they they always have for the most part How that matches up very well versus teams that you can take advantage of that slow strangulation kind of style However i think nine is risk. Takers they're not afraid to get their hands dirty and try crazy shit and if it doesn't work it doesn't work but they make it work a lot of time and i think that style will match up a lot better internationally than team liquids will. I think that it's much easier for a team. That's better than team. Liquid to just outright beat them then it is for a team that might be better than cey nine in some aspects. But cnn always find some kind of fucking crazy shit to do right to come back and keep themselves in the game. See i think that in terms of msi representation. I'm pretty glad that the one going more than fair. And they earned it by the skin of their teeth and the blood of their midlander. More than anything else. This is it. This is the team we're sending to. Msi to represents all in iceland and fingers crossed they do us iceland but mid season is the msi. That's what stands for now. Do want to just point out spends little lucky donna. There's so many crazy plays that happened this weekend. It's so easy to forget about these. But yeah he had he was like he. He got laid three resets in the fight. That led him john-paul to just barely apparently apparently thanks t winter school flash the wall and he gets stuff evolve. Are your job who tragic. Oh it's it's so that's league of legends right like it's so close. It's a game of inches in. Sometimes you just come up one in short game pixels baby are right before we move on. We need to eulogize team liquid. Ian would you like to do the honors. Sure it is your teams defeated foe and battle so it seems only right so team liquid. I think played a valiant split and valiant post postseason they l. Far out of the gate impressed all of us in lock and tournament and continued to look amazing the entirety of the season. He got runner up for mvp rightfully so. I think that was an argument to be made that he could have gotten the mvp. Maybe not you know. I think blabber deserved it but there's an argument there right l. fiery had an absolutely amazing season. I think that jensen had For the most part also a great season the just across the board team liquid look pretty good for the majority of it. I think also our mail came up so huge in this This weekend he absolutely stepped the fuck up. People writing team liquid off is getting just three one three owed by. Tsm they're just over and he stepped up so big he just. He filled what his team needed and he did. His job perfectly I think centurion also should get a shoutout. I think he's looked pretty good. The majority of the season. I think he struggled a little bit in the playoffs before he had to You know unfortunately not play because of migraines but just across the board. This team looks really good. There's so so much to look forward to going into summer. Split and I think earlier we said that. Tsm could easily be the third seed for World's this This season and i think the team liquid easily looks like the second seed currently for world's There's so much to like about this team. And they took nine to five games and almost one. It could have easily been team liquid so absolute the team liquid for everything. They've done this split. I hope we get to see more of it because this is a very very good team all right and with that. The horses will be escorted behind the barn and put down into the beginning of summer. Split but we will see the see nineteen representatives once again. Msi which is going to be super hype. And i don't want to give too much away but we are hoping to have some really good content for you guys as we lead into this mid season invitation. Also that's i'm so excited. That cnn gets to play msi because they got fucking robbed last season rob so harden. They finally get to play msi which they should have been because there was no messiah last year. Thank you covert so thank god yes. We totally get to see them. Actually international competition number one number two representing an a as the sole representative at an msi. This is super hype. Unfortunately for perks does not get as reunion against g. too but there's plenty of story lines here especially up against fbi gets his reunion against damn one and damn one gaming. Yep damn wanna call out canyon by the way called out g to earlier last week and said yeah. I don't think we're gonna see them. Msi them right so this is going to be fun. Really really excited for the next couple of weeks. We still do have as we've mentioned before the final coming up next weekend we are gonna have some great pre. Msi content for those who've been falling us for a while which i think is vast majority owned. We appreciate it a lot. We liked to do some sort of pre international competition content. Where you can hear about. What are the other teams who's actually going. What minor region teams. What the heck's happening who are you. Where am i We'll try to answer most of those games best as we can. What game is this. It is not doda three We will do our best to answer all of these on our overwatch to podcast here league rundown of so make sure you stay tuned and while you're at it you know you're probably gonna look at your little podcast app you're going to notice. Hey what are those little little white stars. Is that what they are if you could go ahead and turn those into a filled in color which was gold and maybe a full black one or the other that would be greatly appreciated. There's a little little option. Usually we can say like right of review. You know what we should do. A little review fun thing. It'll something something that we can read maybe post. Msi's were all waiting for summer. Split to really kick into gear Something a little fun you know. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you don't like. Tell us what you like again. You've got to make it a nice compliment. Criticism compliment sandwich. That's management one o. One you're welcome the negatives yes yes exactly and he really want a sandwich the two and know what sandwiches at best the five stars at the top baby gotta get that. That's the garnish on the criticism. Sandwich we'd totally appreciate that. It would be honestly huge help for us as we try to grow as a podcast as we hopefully get our voices into the ears of as many people as possible and make everyone mad at us. It's always fun. Thank you guys for listening to us. Won't be able to is that you join our community discord. We love you talk.

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Pre-season and off-season issues, LCS in uncharted territory | Hotline League 152 feat. Raz

Hotline League

2:28:50 hr | 10 months ago

Pre-season and off-season issues, LCS in uncharted territory | Hotline League 152 feat. Raz

"What's up everybody. It's hotline league episode. One fifty two and boy. Are we happy to be reading you. The show because other shows in the space have decided. Just take the rest of the year off. You know like they're just they're just not interested But we've got so many more episodes to go this year for you including this one and we are. We are so desperate for your time and money that we can't afford to take it off true whereas the other things can true. What are you what are you what are you wearing. I put my hoodie on just on my head to keep my hair up. It's like a hairnet this is. There's a tiktok trend where people where like they do that with their hair. They put like a towel or something on their hair whenever they are trying to have a like a pseudo conversation when it's like a one man or one yeah it's how they differentiate themselves yes. Yep yeah generally by by saying that that's like the girl in the in the tiktok so anyway indeed. I guess that's what we're doing here. It is a special episode. Everyone because we only have guests on the show and tonight we've decided not to have guest. We've decided to solely dedicate this episode to you the viewers and because of that. We're also going to not really have too many likes dedicated topics to discuss Instead we're gonna let you guys. It's open open mic night. Here on hotline league. Were you choose the topics i mean normally. It's usually within the confines of what happened in the past week. This time we want to hear whatever you guys want to talk about. So i love how you try and spend this positively. It's a very special episode where we finally have to take all the calls about people what people think a good format would be. That will never see the light of day so actually. I haven't done the video. We what i was gonna say. Do we want to go down that rabbit hole. Because that's like the rabbit hole. We opened up and say we'll talk about anything and then people start talking about. Let's copy i strikes format. Or let's i mean it's still funny. You say that. Because i was am how valid rants for new format for next year is going to be. It's what every league fan. I think wishes we had right. Which is like they showed me. I think i wanted to say this They showed me the stuff under embargo. And then i think. Peter retired and so then. I couldn't do the video that day. Because i was doing that video and i just haven't gotten around to it yet but like one of the notes in there like presentation to me was like it's shamelessly global at. I like that is something you could never say about legal agencies sports And the way that it works right like this year we had one international event. I guess Next year to with with msa. But i think we can talk about that So if people want to talk about the balance that's fine I think the only things we should avoid are like. I feel like once every anytime we do this whether some of the top people always call in with like the same topic sometimes like. I don't know there's so there's so many like repeat themselves can be bad pickup. Thanks but there's some that are just perennial favorites right. Lake proser rose north. America are lazy. That's just a people of that. One did happen this week. Though because there was the translation from crown yeah from ambition to twitch stream two so in interpreting bring it up. Which lauren who i. I like a lot responded to. Yeah a couple of people. Did i think it wasn't it was also there. Was somebody else on optics. Kelsey moser had a really funny tweet. She did too but there were a couple of people that like Not so accurate by the way this episode brought to you by alienware love alien. We're real excited about them. We also have. I was hoping to announce this episode but mark knows what it is but we have a a supposed sponsor coming up soon that we are both. We're just waiting to sign the paperwork. I was hoping it will get solved today but unfortunately not be able to listen on stream as part of the sponsorship. We don't talk. Don't get me in trouble before. I get this paperwork. Signed s anything specific thing six. It's it's just it's subjective. you suck so much anyway. Let's get into the show We are killing me right now. It's a it's a dj sponsorship to be able to listen to music on his streams worst so anyway let's talk about stuff so there was the crown thing their wedding normally. We don't want to talk about that but there's an actual reason to talk about it this week. I think it'd be down okay. Yeah if people wanted to call. And i just don't know how much there is to say. I mean if people want to ask people can ask us questions right like people actually are more. What north american elsie has culture is. I think we have a pretty good understanding of like the culture over here in how things work. And so i think sometimes yeah people are fairly ignorant on that stuff or they do think people are lazier. They think that they think like the la culture really does anything it would be like. We go out for food too much order too much. Yes exactly that i mean. Loss got confirmed for. Ti samson can be artesia. Some topic for the week wasn't already confirmed with the double. If enough i mean he leaked it. But i don't think he leaked it in the past week even But it was official officially announced. I think i put that video out. Or whatever and then I don't know. I think i think most of the rosters are confirmed now and we have not. I think donald we did one. That was speculative for like the the signing day or whatever But we did not do anything now. That a lot of the stuff has been solidified so people have take like. Wow digitises you know. Not what i want them to be. Or they're great or whatever like everything has been kinda confirmed for the most part now so i think People will be able to chat about that in a way that maybe they weren't able to previously any who actually mark didn't do our normal thing of like how. How are you how you been this week. So i just got confirmed for my new apartment today. I need to get the check and sign the lease and suffer tomorrow. But i'm moving. I'm moving legitimately like a block a half away from you yes. I didn't know if we were going to. If you want. I should have asked beforehand because i wasn't sure if you were comfortable with it but legal aid dude but Yeah mark is going to be moving a block away from me which is is. I don't even think it's a block and a half by the way it is like there's one block between us on one corner and on the other side. Yeah block is used very liberally. It's more like a neighborhood suburb. I will be able to exit the front of my place. Walk two minutes and be at the front of mark's place which is great for covert. You know. I'm really glad to be moving so close to a friend in in this year of all especially when the stay at home order in elliott's lifted like walk around the neighborhood with masks on. I guess we're pretty And especially after cove. And i'm wondering if this is something i know you're not going to like the idea of of doing the shooting late together. Yeah i was thinking already. You were thinking about how you didn't want to do it or you're thinking it'd be a good idea. I just thought about as an idea. Okay actually just said no. He said after covy gets lifted wise ashes delivery not only being able to hear half of it because she just heard what i said about dan. This show together. I think it's terrible. I well we'll be doing at your place your mind probably mine. I mean probably off. This sucks for two people. I can clean it a little bit and the reorganize a bit and then we can make it work. I think which is you to microphone input. Yeah the now. Because i've got the focus right and so i can. It's got to the one thing i did was. I made sure that has to input. So i could buy another one of these. Very expensive microphone. Shadow subs in the chat and And then you. And i could talk together and this and then i guess we'd have a separate laptop. You could bring your laptop. I could provide you with one and then you could still handle that stuff. The only thing that would be weird is like i would hear your conversations next to me when you go into the chat to try to like pull people right but i think we could. I think we can navigate it. Honestly i mean we could and we're definitely getting a little ahead of ourselves but like i don't know what the benefit is. Stay tuned everyone. Twenty twenty one mark and i will be doing live in person episodes with each other for no reason for no benefit to you the viewer. I'm very excited. we'd have to. We'd have to bake in some kind of a better. It's shows are better when you're in person. But i feel like you and i have done so many remote shows at this point that there's there's i i don't feel like we talk over each other at all the way that like happens on other products with people have less time to get it. You know. I think it'd be good. Shot us out in the youtube. Comments already shut down now. I don't think there's any reason. I don't think there's anything we get out of it. There wouldn't be any creatures in the background of the camera and doing obnoxious just in viewership without my cats when you ask you what they're up to but then people wouldn't get timed out in the twitch chat so frequently time at times of people out what they're up to chairs on the way it's great love it winner you winning january moving Just listening to this podcast by january first is our move day but our lease is up till january tenth. So like we'll probably move slowly over that week. Gotcha well anyway. I'm excited about it. That is good level watching the timeouts. Come rolling then all right. Should we talk about legal stuff i guess. Do you want to explain. How the chagos. Yeah the way this show works is it's a live call in show so we will go ahead and take your calls. It should be a decent night to get on everybody It's been a bangor of a week. But for some reason you know i i feel like it'd be a good week to try and get on spamming twist chat with the discord link. Go ahead and join up when you get there. You're gonna want to join club calls or calls to voice channels once you get in there so no can hear your mom in the background cooking then in the club. Topics techs challenge. Go ahead and put your take is normally. We prefer to go for takes But i think like travis saying this week that we'd be more willing to take just questions about the league seen as a whole about what what things might be like whether it's the do we think any pros work enough for whatever. What's it like to be an interview or anything like that. I think we'll take assuming we pull you. You'll be moved into the waiting room where you will hang out until it's your turn to come. We'll do a quick audio check first and then you'll be on air talking with us. I already see some some conversation in the chat. That are romero strain. Remember the repeat things. Callers who say things like there should be geo location for teams We've had that call. Maybe ten times over the course of the show already or elsia should move to chicago As also painful one. So that stuff. Like i get that. Not everybody watches every episode but there are some things that just like we. I think we're tired of talking about them. And so yeah to call. Yeah fisher Go ahead my salon related. You finish your thought. I was gonna say if you are by the way a a sub be sure to sink your sub stuff with the discords. The you're taking the subtopic chat and again. We have a little bit less viewers than normal. So if you want to get on the show this week to do it because good chance of of coming up this week's to no. This is a good episode. Everyone here's what. Here's what i told mark about this earlier okay. Listen if you're listening and you're like me racial turn off. Listen i told mark earlier that some of our our best episodes have been the. I think people like the mahmoud call that was i think when it was just you and me and we felt like. We didn't have anything good to talk about that week. Oftentimes these open phone line. Calls episodes are great. So i have high hopes for this episode mark. And i don't want you bring it down Yeah so. I started playing haiti's this week. That was the other thing. Sussman dog talk about it. I enjoy the game having a lot of fun with it but there. There's a lot of hype given to the narrative to it. And i just beat the first time and i know that it's not it's like game shows. Keep you keep getting the narrative but is there like tried to look a little reading into like so what am i. What am i playing for. And it sounds like there's a bunch of little narratives that all spin out with each character on their own you progress at their own rate but as haiti's really decorate. Can you go grab our first caller. Fine. thank you to some the subs. I mean all the subs. But the ones that have substance the star of the show which are More awakes ethics. I am just in t. And alistar cast casey rama kelly mill sound wave surfer almost one year tom shoe for twenty five months communities streams jay schroeder raging pianist for eighteen months. Dazs does gaming. Pj salt easy. G thinks everybody to our subs. I i really appreciate it Hello enigma. where you calling from sorry to meet the street this is you are very quiet. Let me turn up. Go ahead again. A smart able to hear them. Yeah i'm trying to be too loud because it's a four in the morning. I'm calling from sorry in the uk Hear him say he's calling from syria in the uk. It's four o'clock in the morning so shall be quiet No i could not hear that. I have met two hundred percent so i'm surprised you can hear him. Maybe because i'm using those other legacy sound systems but okay. How are we going to give your taken the market. Just explain it okay. So my day was the with within the lack of changes to dragons and how strong mythic items are on. Item spikes games are going to feel even more than this. You just like over aaliyah which could make viewing boring. Because i was gonna say you can keep going all. Keep relying once you've done. Why don't you give what he said so far mark so that okay because there's dead air for most people so what he said was with the changes to drag a mythic outings being so strong that the potential for snowball game is going to be higher. Next season gotcha. Any thing else. We're with them. So i play on in amex. University league will end games. Just feel over really early which can make it a lot. You're just kind of sat there with the other team to end and it may come excellent more difficult especially with everyone just picking The game champion ago felt by this year and like out halfway through law games. Because it's all done wins over. Yeah so. I think. I've heard this is one of those ones. I think i've heard a bunch of times just about the snowball potential in the game. Going up damage is too high. These kinds of things and i feel their most prevalent in the in the preseason Said we didn't hear the second part. So i don't know if you were going to reiterate that as won't yeah. He said basically that he plays on an amateur or collegiate level team effectively and a lot of the games field doomed. Pretty quickly And i was just saying that. That's something that i think is a feeling shared. Most often in the and riot is usually pretty good about trying to address that if it's still an issue as they slowly balanced game more more. Ideally that kind of goes away. But even if you know. I think there's a point to be made that if you reach first item in your first items monstrous and my first item. You know two minutes before you because i'm winning the game. I will snowball game even harder especially with objective control and stuff like that but there are other levers they can tune even without just nursing those first items Rubberband mechanics this most often. The one that you see as well as making the big objectives a little bit harder to take so if people are snowballing really hard you make a little bit more difficult to take in in these kinds of things to try you. Slow the snowball down. Maybe mythic item slowly break. That model Th they're able to do some things with nutro to slow the pace of the game back down. But yeah i don't i don't think mythic items are gonna totally break even if it feels like booty right now in for the next maybe months before things start really getting ironed out here. Can you By the way. When i did hear that you're from the uk so thank you for calling from the uk. It's very nice of you to stay late but mark. can you explain a little bit. I'm kind of curious. What people's general. Because sometimes it's hard for me to sort from the general complaints like right. It will change or will complain about anything right like you can lightly change the color of the river and someone. Who's rift and there'd be a thread talking about how terrible it is in the visibility game a joke and i can't believe that they're dedicating whatever so so what you know among the people who actually think about the stuff in consort like stuff. What is the general reaction. Been to all the changes. That game has gone through. I mean i think a lot of the more reasonable people or less reactionary. People don't want to put their opinion out publicly yet. I think that they're probably in alignment with a lot of what the general fan base is saying in terms of some of these concerns and the precedes a bit of a mess with like win rates. And what's good and what's not and stuff but they're giving right at the time to iron those things out i. I was just saying i play. I coached in at once where they released targets. Brace for the first time and it was so fucking busted we played. We were playing like this online torment qualifier thing in and we bought four tar gones. Five tehran's actually in our juggler would go between top and midland using tigon stacks because it was so busted so like you know and fixed eventually you know the meta did not become jugglers. Doing i clear. And then hovering and lanes for tigon stacks But you know the game tends to break like that when they do these kinds of changes And i think you'll see over time that get fixed. My point was more on the is not the one specific one broken. It's the the general power of these items is quite high which is kind of the point. But i've played games where i was playing sheds broken us. Plenty game hsien. And i just got to some kate before the other farming lane bet on them. And then i just my that's gonna make jangling which which lights lane you have strong side. The other person just cries basically yeah. I think that's intentional. From right with the mythic. So i think that's good design but i'm just concerned. Is that going to make like couldn't make your ships him more boring because the games can become over. Yeah i'm hoping learning curve as well like if one at power spikes are significantly stronger. Now people might not be adjusted to it yet. Like picking up sunfire now verse. Picking up some fire. I item previously. You know it's not. It's a difference in whether mythic provide and people might not realize. I can't fuck with until i get my own mythic item and i think that could be one of the areas that people will adjust you over time especially in pro play. People are better about respecting power spikes than sola q. Where people just kind of keep running it down anyway. Sorry i it seems like we're having a hard time. Other people are also having a hard time hearing you so not sure what has as happening but i do really appreciate you calling in. Is there anything you want to shout out before new on university eastbound worry sports Sadly a teen didn't win newman. Nfc muppets well. Thank you so much for the call. I shut shut shouted out his university team for those couldn't hear him anyway. I think so much and we will catch you next time. Mark his messaging me on skype right now asking me questions and because i have a new set up i haven't turned off the so. Yes my bad is okay now. It's my father should've fix up before we're resorting to on the show right out. It's going to be a great show. Everybody just know that like it's the best show we've had months mark speaking of mark. Do you want to tweet about the show. Since you have done he he left anyway okay. I think we're turn off sound okay. I think we're turnout so hopefully it hasn't happened now Thank you to insulin shots for the twenty months in the prime cheney core gifted a sub. Thank you very much for the gifted anyway Hopefully everything is sorted. We're sorry to light last caller about that This caller. I wish we wouldn't have to hear as much Raspberry calling from. I'm calling from los angeles california. Okay well we can hear. Unfortunately what do you wanna talk about. I'll show well there has been you know drama. That's been bubbling up for the entire season. I think actually for the full year and you've done a great job at sweeping under the rug the first one which is very obvious. It's constant war. That's being waged. And that's you know the c word really. Sorry what's the second thing. The second thing is the fact that you took my ship away and you refused. We decided to take. This is the second call mark. We couldn't we couldn't. This is a great mont. Too many end to you. But this injustice has gone on for too long travis. Why why did you lose it. In the first place. I was just being a contributor to the chat. You know i was watching along with everyone else. A people's men on might say. And i made a few comments that were critical of you. And your your you know. What did you say comment. I have no idea what i said. I literally don't know you probably have actually hang on. Can you chat type in the chat. So that i can see the problem. Is you have so many news hawks so frequently chat that like. It's going to have to scroll for awhile. And what is your. What is your twitter handles. razzle-dazzle them. It is resolute pleasant. Okay get on there. Let me see if i can find out of there. Because i didn't want to be what listening to myself while i'm on okay. I'm scrolling up. As this was a while ago. I feel like it was six months ago or something like that was a long time. This is this is how good you are being able to. Just sweep it under the rug. All right there's i. There's so much of the content in this chat. Log is just you screaming expletives or all cap things like ha ha fuck and ll i'm fao. Like so i also consistently shit talk your your the people that you bring on in the show. They have a bad. Take the entire notes that avenue. And and i always ask the to be nice and so whenever somebody with a sword is hard flaming. Okay so you got. I've found that you got timed out on and on july six trying to go to that point. I definitely said a lot. I said the seaward. Okay yeah you spammed. See for k c for k. I'm not gonna say the full expert of course but you spam twice nearly every time. And i don't think that That is maude behavior for this. This show i mean and then i timed you out for Six hundred seconds. And then when you came back you immediately said wow and then you said the word but with spaces in between and you said travis his unwanted me hashtag justice for razz hashtag justice for razz. And to me. So it makes me worry that you did not learn in the did not reflect on your your time pants. I was paying lacking crucial perspective. I am out here on the ground working with the people a grassroots movement for k. And for myself. I people of himself. You have to understand this travis. You can't just be up there in your sky. High apartment your ivory tower Dislike looking down on the community. You have to be able to understand what the people want. Here's the thing it's like you know. He's a maverick. Sometimes he's going to go against the grain against you but he'll also before you in those times where he is for. You carries extra weight for the time that he was against you. Yeah here's my problem. I was actually. Because i just wanted this call which i don't think is necessarily contributing to the content of show. Perhaps to actively actively tributing viewer attrition both in the live form and in the podcast and youtube and lowering my like twitch. Sorry like watch hours and watch minutes on my platforms. I was seeing. I was just mod him so that i could quickly resolve this issue on. Just move on But after reviewing the logs and hearing the way he is arguing his case which seems to be like what is if what he did was not an issue. Leaves though apology s. He's just like i didn't deserve it. Gave me a mod which is like just not this not. This is stronger than the current acting. President of the united states compare my case to the billions of cases. He's levy towards this current election. If that's your argument you can get right about how about this. Also varez his. His interactions in our twitter has skyrocketed since he's got on the call nonstop spam since raza's joined the call. How about that. I i think i think he went from this. This call which is useless doesn't really contribute much content show to now bringing up political opinions which will also turn off according to the most election approximately forty eight percent of our viewer base if we reflect general of america Then it was just like this is mark is just hard tanking the show right now and now he's pulled raspberry person who rise will be help. Help with very good is gonna stay here time. Now i can do my time. How purple purple req- thank you for the sub cheney core. Thank you for. oh harare. got before nolan. I oh thank you for the four months and then stealth thank you for the four as well communities here community where you calling from. I'm calling from san marino county. California san bernardino. It's a beautiful place. I many times on my way to vegas spent. Most people don't know this. And i'll admit it here at the secret about me but i spent two years of my life in victorville california so very familiar with the high desert community. What do you talk about on the show. So what i talk about. Is the recent interview. That perks made about coaches. And how we think a lot of them are just quote stealing a paycheck and and how he thinks only they'll only expos can for the most part be good coaches and how i think that's a really bad mindset as a pro player to have and is one of the many things preventing the west from ever actually performing consistently well internationally so i did not see this. This interview was this on recently. I saw on twitter at this. It was spanish integrated think. I saw some youtube videos. Pick it up. It was a he did. I think it was a croatian. You actually. i'm a little nervous about translated content. Especially i mean there was a there was a lot of things covered in that about you know. Was you given the opportunity to go to fanatic. And all these things i think. I tried to look for the people who are skeptical about the interview and they were saying maybe he was a little bit of tongue in cheek but at least the the the translation seems to be good. Let me tone was quite carried as well but it's tank it on. It's on it's like well we'll pick a benefit of the doubt. I want to start off with this. One by saying because i've read that interview or at least like what was put on reddit as well and i understood it. I'm just cr- coming up memory of since it does seem like the threat has been taken down first of all is that the case has been taken down. I don't know it was like two days ago. So i don't know where it is so my understanding because Having read the interview is that he was referring to like in the past that this was certainly the case that there are a lot of coaches Stealing interviews news talking about his current coach coaches a positive feeling paychecks stealing injuries as dealing so like i felt like that was more of a statement of the past rather than the president and did reference the more ex professionals like ex-pros coming into the scene and kind of comparing to traditional sports being a positive. 'cause like of course like Ex-pros definitely have like the experience of can convey that and have the game knowledge So i i didn't necessarily see it as like an indictment on current coaches. But i'd have to look back at it. It the the whole paycheck sealer thing was definitely a little bit more targeted towards the past. But i do think it's an interesting conversation. Have about player coaches verse other people who come up in the scene or what have you so it was removed because not your post has been removed because reports are not allowed as well as topics that have already been covered. ever okay. It was also removed because they context lists mimetic or inaccurate. Titles are not allowed. So i don't know why that that went there. But i'll link the in the In the twitch. I think i'm right at odds. Don't put me to read it jail if I'm not allowed to link delivers president. I soon if it's a thread safe to to share so just no. I'm doing this. Not out of malice. But just i'm scared okay. Anyway i linked to the twitch chat so interesting Was this because the title of it was based off of the title for this was. Why didn't you go to fanatic. Because they didn't let me perks interview on a current podcast so maybe they did share this in another threat as well but this is like one that got close. Ten thousand votes on on the sub. Reddit okay. Well it looks like like a video and also because it's removed. I can't click to the source so i apologize to everybody for the situation. It being seen as a video just because it was a full transcript or like a from the read before so this might not be the threat or it was deleted. So you can't see it anymore. Whatever okay sorry. Let's just move on and go with the taking of our coaches a paychecks. Whether or not that was entirely. What perks mentor not. Let's us go with that topic If they are non pros so whereas you're very obviously biased because you are a coach Well currently not in a official coaching role. I guess but You have for the past year coach for a team and you are not at a previous pro. So i guess what is your take on all this how much. How much money did you steal. How many paychecks. klay monthly. Well i mean like from the america that i know like no. I don't think that what the hell am i here right now. All right quake okay. We're back i think was. Yeah that was. That was what. I was referring. If you know the answer is no. I think from all the coaches that i've known like they do provide a bit team. It's more of a question of what do they provide. And it's also a question of like if because obviously i don't know. I think this is the most dangerous topic because we actually just have no idea what the fuck happens behind. Closed doors now much like do. They actually provide their team. Are they more. Like what co- You know they're referring Perks is referring to his current coach. Which was like strong analytically but bad magic players they said But like that's something that really depends coach coach. Like what are they offering to their team So the idea of paycheck. I hate that conversation because like players will never fuck and say about their current coaches or previous coaches and then the community will definitely hop onto the train. Where it's like. They actually have no idea like where we going. It just feels like it's just the weirdest question about time unless there's for sure evidence based off of like interviews or how the person carries previous teams. I mean we heard. I would say like mark have heard a lot over the past like seven years of a coach just not contributing much to a team or not being functionally helpful or whatever and i feel like a lot of times we have to. I mean correct me. If i'm wrong but like we like when we're voting for coach of the split. You kind of have to do a little bit of reconnaissance on. What are the players actually saying about the coach behind the scenes right. Yeah i think some people just stripped. Don't vote. I still vote. And i my reasoning being. Yeah i don't know anything about any of the coaches and so i'm going to do. It's not like anyone has an unfair advantage in this category. And i'd rather have this award. Go out the not understand that it's like yeah it's not like it's a fucking analytically driven war where we sat down and tested the coaches. It's a fun award. And i'd rather have a fun award than not so. That's my perspective. Whenever i vote for it you know. I don't think it does any harm. So i wanted to vote for who i think sounds like. Yeah it's narrative driven to you know like jack audit because he took ninth place. Obviously jasper i don't know if jets the best coach in the league all of a sudden in his first split coaching. But you had a strong story behind. It was changed to coaching staff this year. Too i mean here's the thing. I love the idea of awards just because it is more of a celebration and it's not a negative aspect and anyone that makes it turns it negative the community. We don't wanna talk about that. Necessarily i just think that like the fact that it changed to coaching staff. I think is a positive. But it's always gonna be a question on Like what are we valuing like in. This case was probably the easiest one because of the the position change the had right but next year. If there isn't going to be a huge change with so many new rosters like how do you make that decision. And the way. I view it. Is that like the team that can communicate that the best like with more content. Let's just say for whatever reason. Random example under thieves comes out and has an entire fucking content show of just like their coaching staffs. Suddenly that would boost their. You know branding on that aspect of it versus a team. That doesn't say a damn thing about it so like that's what i'm as you already said about narrative that's what makes it hard because you have no idea. Well that and like so. For instance. I think narrow is some claim i mean. Let's stop talking about the awards specifically like okay. Okay i i think narrow for instance is a good person to deserve acclaim because people consistently rate especially this past year. Their rosters being like a tenth place team. Or whatever. like let's say this roster that everybody's like well we don't know what golden guards doing if they make playoffs and whatever that replaces the spring split finals or whatever. Then then i think people should say like oh this team it well and like. That's probably a credit to their coaching staff that they were able to take Rookies that a lot of people didn't particularly have a ton of faith in perform. So i agree with that like i. Here's the thing because obviously there's going to be you know. Everybody knows coach with golden guardians academy so there is a bias. Tend to to that i felt the same thing but that's not really an advocacy for the award right. It goes against it because every like most of the time the team if not all the time that gets the award is a first or second place this success what people will recognize rather than the improvement of the players would away from the award. Right like we're just talking about like i think narrow stands as a response to whatever the ridley potentially translated interviews with perks like like i think he has a pretty good track record and he's even like gone outside and of the the role that he has with a team to build stuff to try like tools and to try to improve north america as a whole like that type of stuff. I think indicates that coaches can provide value. Even if they're not appropriate. It depends a lot on what the players are looking for out of it. Right like somebody. Who's gonna do. Drat like i can understand. How a pro player would be like. I don't want to sky who does not understand high level league of legends or has whatever to be the sole decision maker in our draft which is potentially how some teams if not now in the past have operated verses just or is this person here helped mediate. A discussion between us and like beer is actually the coach. You know Which is a thing that a lot of people talked about this year so I just it's like such a broad topic that making that blind statement of is. I think a tough one to two here and i know you. Lsu players have a very different opinion on coaching. Lcs does as we discussed on our live episode of hotline league at reference. Last year with you coaches and peter and different people are one thing that i just wanna add this. 'cause i don't want to seem as though like perks is just saying this thought he would. I've read. I thought it was like understandable. I thought it was also a positive. Take on the fact that moore you know x. proser moving towards coaching. I love the fact. That golden glue a bureauc- sin. Gaylon people will not know for sale. Gee i forgot what moon. Yeah a move into coaching position. In although it might turn a little be a little rough on the first split because the experience is necessary like they command a lot of respecting the come in with a lot of like in bill knowledge from playing previously. Mad is another one. Exactly empire matt coming in as an academy coach as well as is really good So i think. I took it as more of a positive and also. I didn't think he was calling. You know current coaches check steelers so those or at least the ones that he knew about. So that's the to takes. I throw in there along with auto. What said was that in the past and even to this day i think there is less a rigid system for testing coaches than there are pro players. Like there's no ladder for coaches show. He's cia. Yeah but the mode. That even i love somebody's gotta challenger coach should have worked out and it didn't like this is some. I did an interview with and looked at his resume. I hired bad coaches during my time. When i was in with team liquid often hiring people like i misfired. Plenty of times who. I've found some okay once but that's just going to happen. I think more drastically than with players due to that situation. And so i think in the past. There's probably ben a larger especially when the coaching boom started to happen around season. Four and five. Were we all need coaches now right. It's officially made this position. There's probably a lot of people who got off that. Were not qualified. Some people are have been coaches only for the cameras. I mean especially in the early days. Yeah i got weeded out. Because i was a trash cheer coach. And then the other thing i was going to say which is the caller's point about it not being good mindset about ex-coach's only. I somewhat agree. I think you know to what the point is said is why i think a lot of people prefer ex players being coach because at least they have this basis. That roused was talking about where you at least know they have this experience of being a pro player and going through the grind and understanding it. But i think there's plenty of value to be brought from non-traditional not expert player coaches which is why the the the perks interview was a little weird and this is why i wonder if there's a translation air about how like it's moving to be more like traditional sports having more ex players whereas i feel like a lot of traditional sports where there are pro players who are coaches a lot of the best ones where like collegiate level you know the almost never were were like goats whereas like a lot. A lot of players to become coaches. Don't work out that well. That's actually fair. What do you think of all this community. He's i think it's fair that it very well could have been a translation error and also hearing how kind of your planning perks mindset on that. I'm more. I'm less angry but like i must like irritated towards the comments that i was when i read them getting really think them fully. I think it verse thanks. Yeah of course they so much community. Is there anything you wanna shot or say before we go onto the next caller. Yeah as one hundred fan. I wanna thank golden guardians for our academy team for the two thousand twenty season. And we're gonna take your counting players. I make them into a will make worlds for that twenty twenty one season. Raza any thoughts on a minute. He's saying thanks one hundred days because they took it. He's thinking guardians developing hundred of course. Of course anytime. Thanks so much appreciate you. Thank you wait mark. We got hard flamed again. For being hundred t haters way. What did we say no but This happened. I think after the last episode where we say yeah. People said that we owe because we we were talking about the golden garden stuff and because we said that we disagree with nate shots stuff About how everyone wants you to succeed every year that we are hundred haters and i was getting down voted in a reddit thread for for. I know that people don't go to read it. Feel like this is petty Like people legitimately we hate hundred t which is just not true. I don't hate hundred eight hundred. Eighty no one hundred t. I only hate nate shot. da. I love papa. I'm waiting for the next thread now. It's so weird people out there think this and then like enough people did that. I was people. Were just like are you kidding me that you you think you don't. I'm like i don't hate them. It was so weird. Feeling talking giving me a heart in ankara. 'this earth staff. I really appreciate because they have drake kohner. Who's my favorite toronto raptors superfan and all that That they had the oviedo decal people not know that. But that's like the dark golden Black yeah i mean. I don't know what that means. But i i returned to us being hundred i was gonna glazed over the say. I think we're definitely not like hundred stands and we don't like hype 'em up at time but i'd say like i don't know how you could hear me talk about immortals dig moss algae and think that somehow hundred thieves is the team that i i take issue with them. I mean in their first year we gave them an incredible ton of praise for being the best of all the new franchise teams well. And like we. I i feel like we talked papa. We give them a lot of credit for one hundred program kelsey and stuff like it's a monolith like we'll praise the parts. We think deserve praise. What were the other teams. You named your down. I didn't put golden guardians in there. But i probably should have said i m t and who else i said. I am digging. Seal the three from last year. I don't have fans who will be man. I mean it's punching down for sure. But i also i mean we talked about. We talked about golden guardian. A little bit. I mean they have some fans hundred thieves as you can see. Oh my goodness he's somehow linked golden guardians into it you. I was talking about the other teams. Dan i was saying that. There's some guys got some fans. I've practical and guardians a bunch. Okay okay yeah and you heard. The fury is residents hanging out by tails between my legs and iran where we pull whereas a caller and now he's just here on leave. Whatever you want to stay you can stay. I don't i don't mind staying here. It's quite nice. I don't have a plan so mark. You wanna grab our next caller. Yeah for sure okay. Anyway thank you by the way to some of our more. Recent subs jordan. Ll a dark alley. H t who says victorville blows great jamie ninety two a thing dak game or girlfriend and mark lag large. Think for the prime any other prime gamers out there. Saris appreciate Blue so many gifted five subs that deserves more attention than blue jays omega. I think the practice. It's christ for the five. Gifted subs blue jay. Welcome to the show where you calling from ontario canada. And what do you wait. Razz is also canadian. You guys have some sort of like you guys pals we are cousin. Yes exactly you guys go out and tame moose together yeah. He built his igli right next to mine. We've been growing since we were kids. You know percent what do you what do you wanna talk about on the show So my take. Is that the off. Season from a management side of things seemed abysmal and tsn fans should expect better from tm disorder. Deal took way too long to finalize and it really costs i mean the sorter deal. Do you want to expand on any of this. Before i dive in. Yeah i can. So i need to like be adamant that like saying seemed abysmal. Just because like. I have to admit obviously i don't know everything that goes on within. Tsn and stuff like that just from the outside looking in it really looked like a really rough off season for tsn the main thing. Let's just talk with disorder thing. The main thing is that. Like i think that because that deal took so long to solidify. It probably hurt them from having other options wants. It fell through the first time that deal and it probably cost them a lot more to obtain him once sort of realized that they had no more option if that makes sense. Do you get what i'm saying without. Yes yeah yeah. Was there anything. Else that you your. There's a few other things. But i mean let's let's i think probably start. Are the main thing you find disappointing. Yeah well there's also the double thing. Like i mean i understand. Wft hadn't really made up his mind. But if you're tsm you need to make sure that you know who you're eighty carries going to be moving forward because it hurt them with the stuff. And like i said. I can go down to whole rabbit rabble here so yeah. Let's let's just start. Sorta thing i mean the reason. Why tougher me on. The sorta stuff is because it. I mean everything that we had heard me sound as though there was complicated. Factors there like it wasn't as easy as like the the perks and al farhi thing and so is really difficult for me to fault them. I mean areas. I will fault them. Because people think i don't ever criticize them. I think they did not do a great job of managing fans expectations like there. Was this kind of weird back and forth on. You know andy tweeting out stuff and saying that he was really excited about things and coming on the show this show even in teasing stuff and then like you hear stuff is falling apart and then like peter it just like it was it was tough and i think they were excited on my guess would be excited at the idea of getting sort art and building a super team and they got over us and then things started to get kind of wonky and end up with losses. Adc and your star a d. retires and people weren't expecting whom he i think like there was probably a lesson there on how to manage the stuff from i dunno fan communication perspective And i think that's an issue. It's hard for me without knowing the details on what their problems were with. Sort art to know if it's fair to fault them on that i mean they. It's not like they're they finalize their roster pretty quickly after the offseason right. I mean. I think they were able to announce that with basically one week of the the opened. Try signing period beginning. So it's not like this is like late december or early january and they're figuring out what their support is going to be It just feels that way because we now have like a media culture that i participate in where you like as things before anyone has signed any paperwork. People are essentially getting an idea on. Who's going to be on teams. So that i have a tough time with. I'm surprised you don't have you. Don't fault them more for like. I think a lot of people do think that that team is pretty wonky especially compared to him and he'll that's a. That's a place where i am surprised. More people aren't being critical of them. So i have more of that as well like. I'm surprised that they went after. Who knee instead of like liquorice for example like i don't know if they were in. I figured they would be interested in licorice. I thought that you would be able to outbid. Fly quest for licorice. Tsn but that didn't happen. I'm not sure if that's because they weren't that interested or what but that's another area that i think they're definitely at fault is looking like travis. Okay you can continue on. But what is this. Oh it's the snapchat filter you. I didn't have a video. I don't. I don't think it's time to disrupt the show to try to get you on video anyway. Sorry i was gonna say. I kind of agree with travis point like i think it's understandable france. We'd disappointed offseason whether it's the actual names collected the way that it happened. Which seems to be kind of herky-jerky and not like a smooth acquisition about it. Sounds like whatever we don't know. It went down. But some of the drama between peter and the oregon like with the support situation like i think there are a number of things that you could be disappointed in but since we don't know what happens with sort are in particular why there was a hold up like if it was like. Oh they temporarily got outbid lost his somehow or something that had to get it back or like it was just in the goshi. Ation thing then maybe you can put that on them for not just wowing him and making him want to sign with them one hundred percent but if it was anything to do with v says or us climate with covert and stuff. Like if it's if it's any of those concerns they're pretty outside of to have a hard time faulting team. I you know the suspect way. I should have put it is. I'm going to have a hard time faulting team for taking one week longer than other teams to sign a player that probably has like a complicated immigration situation during a pandemic you know and is like a star player that a perhaps demands a good amount money so i think that's a really good point but the way that i look at it is we were told this was the narrative at least was that it fell through due to taxation reasons. Is that true. Is that fair to say. That's what we heard on twitter. I don't know if it's fair to say because we okay. Like i have not heard enough to feel confident. In that like y- even the people that were talking about this stuff like deleting the tweets that they had made about that topic right so It's i just have a hard time like d saying this was the problem that they ran into you. Know yep well. I'm glad that's exactly why worded it seemed abysmal because again we don't know everything that went on. My point of view was that it fell through taxation reasons and my thoughts are like. We're going into season eleven. Now if you're making a potential deal with someone you should be able to tell them exactly how much they're gonna make going into the next season after taxes and all that stuff like this is stuff that like. This shouldn't happen in season eleven. In my opinion this is stuff that should happen in season. Three or four. So if if that was the case and that's why the deal fell through. That's where i'm a little bit like come on now. I think that we should be prepared for that. But if that's not the case then i mean you have to give benefit of the doubt right. Yeah even some of the tax stuff like i. Don't i'm a fucking idiot. So if there's some weird tax thing going on between china taiwan in the us because sort from the pl or excuse me flashbulbs originally. They were taiwanese. I don't know what that situation is at all like how taxes and things like that would work out between those countries. Sure but let let me. Let's expand to talk a little bit less about the stuff we don't know about and talk instead about the other stuff. I i'm actually very curious. Blue jay what do you think of how everything went down other them. Because i think. What's very funny to me. Is i saw this this threat on the ti sub reddit. Which is a i quite. Enjoy that sub reddit and it was like last week. You know it was like last week and the person's like oh no we're getting who knee. What the heck are the next week was like. Oh please dear god tell me where at least getting hoodie because it was actually maybe they did do a good job of managing the situation because fans i think were ultimately scared. What it seemed like everything was going to fall through That they weren't going to be getting anybody and so then ticket whom he made people start to feel a little bit better So are you asking exactly. I guess the question is like what do you think of of their final lineup. And do you think fans should be happier relieved. I mean what set aside the sorta apart like. What do you think of that. The lineup seems okay. But i think kind of what you said earlier like this is not a tsm lineup like tsn. Fans should expect a little bit better. And i do think that it is really funny that like well. I don't know if a year ago people would have said. Tsn signing who need people would have been full of question marks right but now that like who needs the save your is really saying something about csm. I think that says a lot are are you saying says a lot about the order. The fans who saying that that who needs to savior travis. No i didn't. I think trump is saying trump is. Who are you saying is saying oh see the. Tsm sub reddit was like terrified that they might not have a a eighty or a support or atop leaner Because it was like we might not have soared art and may retire and so. I think it's very funny now that one week after you know I not now. But i think it's very funny that one week after you know people were freaking out about who knew. They were begging for who need to end up on the team because they might have not had anybody starting. Yeah it's a good point. Honestly i'm trying to figure out what the original take. So you're saying that you are upset. You think that this is an upsetting offseason outside looking in for time. So i'm saying that for a team that is to the caliber of i'm like this is one of the top awards. I think that the offseason should be had should have been a little bit more smoother. I don't think this would ever happen to see nine or i would say. I don't think things would be a lot more smooth and maybe that's easy to say until it actually happens but yeah my concern here is that you said that we should be giving them the benefit of the doubt because a lot of these things are unlike unknown. Like the whole taxation thing. Sure i the way. I saw it kind of like what we've arctic to kind of. Wrap it up from what i've been hearing which is like yeah the. Dsm went for something ambitious. Probably one of the more ambitious things like Probably the most ambitious not think about it because even rookie going to the l. pl even that huge that was like it's probably not as big of a competitive shock is to just going straight towards north america in comparison to like carita l. p. l. While you still believe like you can be a champion a championship winning winning team internationally. This one is a huge change. And it's worth six million dollar deal. You know like among two years right this for me. That was insanely ambitious so for them to even go for something like this like. I don't know how much of a rocky road. But this is a big win. The dab sort me the reason why. They had to spend so much because their backups. Were like your second option was no longer ignore because he had been signed. It was now like ziesel or hawk or something like that. And i think that's why sort was able to you know. Get bank one of the reasons. Of course the world's finalised right so this is my fear. Is that like how based speculation that is because like sorta was. I was what i would imagine like the original run forty s like the. He speaks the language. She is a world finalist support. One of the best now in the world like a somebody that you would wanna go. And i think deserves said the asking for this kind of money. obviously gsm fans will be having some ptsd because of the previous supports that they've had in yellow star in committee But i think that they should be learning lessons from like those days and sorta it is a different person so like i just think that this is for sure a really good pickup for them and i think a lot of the idea. I don't know about you. But i'm just saying the of like questioning from the fans come from loss trying to fill the doublet and lost is a really fucking good eighty gary. I agree so the fact that they're able to have lost sort are this is all speculation once again. Like on the rest of the ross. Because i don't know actually how much has been revealed or like have been announced. I mean i don't know. I don't know shit from where i am right now but like they would have be speak a new knee like. That's a top d roster or four depending on how under thieves go. I the way. I see this is that i think everything is really good from this team except for like obviously the question mark in a top line but if you look at the whole pool of top lanes in the in the next next year i think it's gotten like significantly weaker or at least like just based off of How do i put it like Experience obviously a lot of the players coming in like a good examples. Like you have. God revenge Niles fudge. a. Lotta these players that you can say like a few them. Fudge is a great example of someone who has already shown great strength. but he's going to have like rough times in premier league for the first few weeks. So i think that whom he actually at least with first few weeks look really good and this team. I think should be able to play. I'm talking about the sim should be able to play whom he style. A sort was on a team that was actually planning towards their top side of the map so like it feels as though even from a stylistic approach that they can play stop and they have a really strong coaching staff in fact that the coaching staff aspect. I think is really strong. So i think you're right like i would imagine that getting all of this together. It'd be really difficult because of the how ambitious getting sort was But yeah that's i thought. At the end product was still good. I would agree with that too. Even though like i totally agree that i actually do think they have a good rosser but i think that the way they got there was not a really smooth off season. I guess is what. I'm trying to say and also for all the people in the chat saying. Tsm hader make up your minds guys like two weeks ago or three weeks ago i was. Tsm fan boy. Now tsm hader make up your mind guys. Welcome welcome to being a personality. You criticize team that people like and they're going to say that you hate them unless you just say what everyone wants you to say. Any given point in time estimate show a huge every every lcs kelemen is biased for and against every lcs. Orc anyway thank you so much Blue for the call. Anything russia out before we move onto quick break. No just the thanks for having me on the show guys. Cd goodbye have you all right. We're taking a quick break to talk about alienware. I know. I know you guys hear me. Talk about them. All the time But as want to say thank you to them as we head into the holidays because i really appreciate so much of what they've been able to do for me this year We are. I know i try to be transparent with you guys. So i'll say we're talking to them Basically this month about what next year looks like and i think because of your support for the show and the fact that so many of you guys have like literally during black friday sales so many of you guys hit me up and we're like. Hey what's the discount code or what you were al or whatever is it that i can help by something and support you because i'm looking at getting system and that i think is very much appreciated because it reflects in these conversations to have with them now around what next year looks like and In a world where. Nobody was doing that where nobody was using code. Whatever it makes those conversations a lot more difficult because they might not know how much people actually care about the fact that they're sponsoring this content. So yes they could. I also add something into this ad advertise long as it does not hurt my relationship with my sponsor. No because i'm not. I'm not you know i would. I understand that. So i just got the xps. Thirteen probably a few days ago. Actually which is a dell product for those that don't know dell owns alienware yes so it's Xps thirteen with. It's a two and one. I even got the stylus and it is fantastic. It's favor laptop And i just got so like the fact that i was able to do that in usurped my previous laptop which was my favorite laptop. Big thumbs up. I definitely i would definitely refer this laptop to anybody. That's wondering how would like which one they would get for. Good well there. There's a testament to this. They actually sent me a one of those two as well or they recently sent me the same Thirteen to in one as well. So i i appreciate it now. I have something even even more portable so Thank you so much to and to anywhere for their support of my stuff and thank you to razz for shutting out there fantastic product and be. If you're interested in getting something. Be sure to use travis. Enough q four. That doesn't always work outside of the us so just a heads up and That can save you ten percent off and then also Be sure to check out. Actually one thing. I can tell you. Is that if you've been looking for thirty seventy i saw today. They just tweeted they. Now have systems with thirty seventies in them. So if you are buying thirty seventy and you want to to get a system that has in it. You can now officially do that. Aol dot com. Slash travis fudges shot. He says great. Show travis which. I assume means that fudge was paying attention earlier whenever razz was talking about him. Because i feel like he would have reacted to that because raza's was like all those new topless coming in our all dumpster trash camp. I is gonna suck for the first couple of weeks. Top lane has gotten worse. Lied because of players make fudge. Unbelievable all right. You know the truth. He's been watching by the way i do. I do have a thirty ninety in the system now to i've switched this new desktop system as thirty nine people in the chat talking about three thousand series. Mark you want to grab the next caller off. He's already on it. Yeah it's guilt christ for the five. Gifted subs omega diamonds zinc. For twenty five months. People think twenty five months. I guess last month lot of people had twenty four rocks. Rock stag thank you for the sub Santoro thinking the five months s and Gym shorts son appreciate it. mark has returned triumphant with gourock. Why is your name korac. It's just i changed. Names lot magical was probably easier okay. Oh you're magical clause from the twitter chat. i'm now. I'm worried because i feel like you've been trying to start stuff on this episode Where you calling from. I'm calling from new york. Ethica ca you go to cornell it's nice. I went there. One time talent. I went to rit through with a few times is stop at. What do you want around the show. Corre so My topic is basically like given the pipeline in. It's always going to be like talented. Tom is always going behind. Are their league's der boy. Like north america as leaks is always going to be behind other leaks. So we're just doomed. Well i mean we might have like a golden generation like that mammoth team for or like flash wolves for carina but for just like outside of relying on stuff like that kind of why do you think that our development seen will always keep us behind. I think it just like the way. It's adapted like even with a new format changes. I think are sick. I love the coaches and seeing everyone's like people in the problem. I think it's just like the way that it's tongshan and like how far behind been just going up until now like there's a lot of catching up to do and other things are always innovating noise going for it. I think it's not insurmountable but certainly like as time goes on. It's going to be harder and harder for people to catch up. Can i start with this one. Yes sir you start with coach. Because i enjoy the fact that this call is come in now i know that you just referenced. The new changes right but also even adding to the fact that like oceania. Now being north america not only just blood. Instead of course geographically speaking close ocean exactly think talent development. Actually in a pretty good spit it should. I shouldn't say it is because we really just depends on how the actual System actually progresses and also if the players that are going through that system are are reasonably improving another addition to this is also in houses that have only really grown which is great to see not even just like the core. Jj houses but also. I've been watching the earlier in houses. Release coasters with revenge Dr dock and all that a lot of it is incorporating amateur players and going through reviews that i think are insanely beneficial to players like that like when when when when golden gardening academy got in oregon and got in chime in and this is just not to them like everyone that's new income into the scene like it is a huge influx of information that goes through them about like a primer like competitive environment even if they've already been on an amateur level it is a completely different game so i actually would say that that i'm expecting it to really boom and the next two years. I think we'll see a lot more. And i think you know the kademi system quote unquote will actually have a much easier flow of talent from amateur to academy because now teams will be forced to. Do you know what happened with matt. Lions which is oh my top lehner just got beat by this guy swab. It was swab aroo. I think i think the direct competition is always the is the major benefit. So so your point yes. We are behind because of it. And it's due to natural reasons for comparing ourselves to korea in china is huge machine in large population size for these servers but the biggest reason another big reason not the biggest rely. Another big reason was because of the system Underneath the major league. And i think that we finally moved that kind of pillar and budge. That's making it better. By the way i random question razz. Sorry goes up but Is we are the core. Dj houses taking place on the tournament. Server are those all live if love learnt they do that on the loping ones being like academy amateur players as well that do not like aero it sounds like they had negotiated so that coming amateur could play on those servers. The other thing that could be true right now. Is that the tournament. Realm servers usually stop getting updated in preseason because they don't want to devote resources to putting always passions into a server that people aren't technically using also there's a list of like for instance. They gave him a number of accounts or like the saying. This is how many players brown per team. And so if you're bring on which is like any amateur player that wants to play. That's being vetted you're not going to be able to give them an account on time. So there's a lot of basically barriers to that empire in kelsey also said into a shot that not all the players in the country right now so it's not even like la service guaranteed to be the best for a lot of people. So i'm sure it's a bunch of a bunch of these factor put together i. Maybe tournament has been updated. I'm wrong but i remember at the end of the end of the year after world's round basically died and it stopped getting updated and all the accounts get wiped. Once the season starts again. So you'll have to hand out those coats. Well i who i mean. It would be nice like the logistical stuff. When i hear logistical reasons for why we can't you know have an ideal environment. I always just want those to get solved. Like if we spend all this time talking about how bad ping is and then it's like okay. Well we have a solution to that and then people can't do it. I mean. I know you can't fix somebody who is traveling. I get that. But i would. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people that are playing in these an houses would benefit from being able to play on the west coast server. I mean once again. I don't think that's the biggest benefit of being in the in house server for the new players if we're talking about new players coming in like amateur academy or new new academy players the biggest benefit of being in these review sessions with more experienced players or even not even like the post game reviews but also just being engaged lobbies and yeah exactly contrast of two supreme useful from what they've been doing. I'll say to go back to some of the original points of the caller. And about being behind travis sermon that great double. If you interview from season one season two about how about rosettes that sorry go ahead and say what it is so if no one's ever seen this this interview from season to it was on i think it was on in the league way back in the day and correa was playing in some im's and they were good but they weren't dominating and said i might push this a little bit. What would never catch up. Because china has an extra year of experience on them and they would always have the extra year of experience. and there's no way to get that year back and you know career which is always be behind in a. Yeah i am. I'm sad because i thought of that as as the caller and i didn't get to it in time but yes there is a perfect example. I mean and you can take that interview but you can also take like people thought korea would only ever dominate and then You know started to be kind of week for a and people thought l. e. c. I'm going to piss off all of the eu lcs for a long time. Lots of people felt like you. And na lcs were like the same tier and they were just both dramatically behind korean china and now lic's undisputedly better than north america and desert pretty big contender with a china. China wants last finals. It's well now. They're the best in l. Ck's going to be playing second fiddle minutes. Who'd okay. i'm just going to put this out there. I've only being when. I was in china the time or even oceania. I've only heard the debates between europe and china being second place at what point in time with north american that discussion was too. I think you're north. America was second place everyone just eu was shit as north america. In two thousand fourteen. You got no seeds out groups and then he got to in. Tsm anna cnn. So there's there's a time around two thousand fifteen as well. They had a lot better show. And this is. This is the problem when we do the stuff. It's like when we said that there was a tie on the last episode that was considered like top to abc in the world. It's because we have all these people that started watching and twenty seventeen and they're like what are you talking about then is never been the case. How dare how dare you besmirch the integrity of my teams in my region as like. Okay well you you. We've we've been covering this little longer than you've been watching but anyway the caller's point i agree. The gap in a is a serious issue. And i don't believe we'll ever be like hands down the most dominant region in the world but to say that like our talent development pipeline will always behind these other regions. You never know what's going to happen. Maybe the eu seeing collapses for some reason but north america goes strong. And then we're in totally different. You know in in environment so you just never know but i would say there are issues that rashes talking about that go beyond just systemic fixes that any has to deal with. Those are much harder to improve. I think it's fair to to be relatively pessimistic. But i think the moves in the right direction are all good. Yeah i i think that stuff is fair of things are actually more on the structural side because there are things we can't fix and i've never really focused on them like the service is stuff like that like we're going to be slaughtered for a while. Whatever that's fine can't change that. But like i one of the reason i was really happy. Rats stick around with like democracy cup and cusp aqap tournaments where like like even amateur players and like lower tier i guess teams at the time algal. Ldl would play like high up lake Chinese teams are high up korean teams. Like i don't think i've ever been more hype. Offend like when snake and king even the kingdon sky wasn't as. Because i wanted them to be like i've never been as high as like when they did really well into mafia and stuff like that isn't really here and league At least in north america there. That's why the amateur tournament like i'm hype about that. But like this do not putting lcs teams like other teams like county. Players can like outperform like current. And a lake elsie. Starters people like that That's why like those are some more structural changes that i was like world more focused on but this is still like a really great discussion. Yeah i do wonder if there's a world where you can mimic relegation in some some form Like i don't know if it's good or bad for the league if we're sending like dignatories like let's say golden guardians doesn't do well next year with a roster like down and they're getting beaten. I cloud nine academy or something like that. I don't know if that's good for the league that it would look that way. But i also think that it does. It does put pressure on teams to perhaps make rosters. That are are not embarrassing. I don't know. I think i think it'd be okay because it's all still kind of the same pool of talent so to speak. I think it'd be really bad if some you master teams came over and slapped. Na like seventh eighth ninth tenth teams. Oh god fucking. Was that all chinese steam. Yeah yeah i mean at least they. They didn't win anything technically. They made worlds but anyway Thanks for the call. Anything you wash up before we move on to our next caller razz. I used to watch. I talk shit ton back in the day you frost drexel etc etc karen. Not carrot kelsey. Moser is here to shut travis to. I've been watching since. Think steadily even when i didn't actually watch league but shit like everytime i after worlds i stopped watching league just because it's so sad but some are your content. So is there so is really good. Thanks thank you so much for the call appreciate. Yeah thank you and thanks for sticking around to world this time on. My name is travis effort. This is who's league is it anyways with myself. Alex penn gnome san all the shit. Who else nick. Allen and allen shocks there we go back before shocks just skyrocket into the stratosphere and left me far far beneath her begging for subs on my twitch stream thank you it's gilchrist for gifting us up to d. webs And if anybody else has prime game or sub. I'd love to To get that prime gamers up from you Because i don't have big. Budget deals with red bull and mastercard. And mr dog strong is here. Mr dong strong kong from. What's going on your loud. You're very strong whereas dong start. Where where are you. where are you calling from. Yes i turned you down but continue okay. I'm calling from seattle from seattle. nice What do you to talk about on the show So the first thing i wanted to talk about was with both. Wnba retiring the record for the most individual lcs titles won't be broken for at least another twenty five years. What with the new. Lcs changes the new format changes. Because the thing about double has wet seven. Titles you're snacks. Six and each player can only win possible of one trophy per year. right as opposed to take. It's going to take twice the amount of time is your somebody to surpass dublin berson. Lcs tied a record right so take no hang on I'm not saying you're wrong but my answer is it is difficult to know. It depends entirely on how riot plans to position. This qualification tournament to msi. Because now supposedly there's going to be a tournament qualifies people to msi. That does happen in the middle of the season that will feel like spring split finals but ultimately not spring split finals. Because there is no spring split. So what if they decide to position that is like this is a tournament that awards trophy that is on par with what spring. We consider these to be champions for like if they do that. Somehow which i think is pretty hard to do narrative league given that like you're now saying that all these games matter equally all the way up to summer then that would work but so people people in chat generally want this spring things still matter like in terms of empire fudge saying that but i will say to the caller's point even if the spring split does matter just half his point right so instead of being twenty twenty five years. It's ten to fifteen or ten to twelve or something. Original statement said fifteen. But i want to go a little. I mean either way if if you're right and there's only one title then it's twenty to twenty five if you're wrong and there's two titles steal your take still plays the same. It's just you know now. Ten years so i think i think either way we can talk about this. I think sh okay. Should we do you mark. Should we talk about the even if it should count or is that just because we so we'll will they be adding a title for aside. Trophy for the qualification. Because i thought it was just tournament for all of the things that i know is is has been said all things. I know that i can discuss publicly. Have said publicly about them. And so Win right reveals this information in the future we will know more but The to this point in time like we. I don't know about How they plan on the information. I don't know or that. I do know that i can't talk about. I don't know how they're planning on categorizing that tournament seeming. Go ahead mark. I was gonna say just assuming that the tournament. Structurally similar to spring finals. Or like the spring play offs and whatnot. I would want the title to count. I think to your point. Travis is a little hard to figure out the term to use. Because you can't say spring champions when it's half like maybe you say midseason champs or something or maybe maybe there's a tightly up with that makes it work but assuming that the difficulty levels the same. That's what i care about. The most is like okay. You had to win a series of best five. Be crowned the champion. If you have to do that. I think it's like i think councils like a mini trophy in my opinion because it's ninety two worlds so it's not an l. cs championship. And that's what matters when it comes down to the history books one of those things. That whenever i see like there's been a change for a tournament format like the nba or something like throughout times like what matters actually more so wbz but more to the point is that you can't either you change the wording of it or did go back to the point of this guy. Has this many championships and to the callers point. If you're just going for a one long season then you do get you. Take away the frequency of it. So that's true there. It's hit that record. You gotta you gotta enlist in the fast. I think actually. I think what you do is for like for like an episode like run it. We just did these run on like double lift and beer since career. I think what you do. You probably have to Two different categories. You have like trophies lifted and then you have championships one and i think the championships wanted. You're only gonna be able to get one championship win a year. Now is my opinion. You can get multiple trophies. A year Because maybe you win multiple tournaments But i don't know if you can get multiple championship wins was kinda like what my my take on these things. I care much more about the spirit of the tournament than like the narrative of it which is the same reason i take issue with some of the oji worlds was because they were so far removed. From what the actual format of an and difficulty level of what words became. And it's how i'd feel about this. If it is a different event like legitimately ran differently. Different rewards you know people start preparing for it differently if it's different than i don't like it. Being counted the way springs to count but it's effectively the same thing but we just now combine the splits. Then i would like to find a way to continue to count them. Like i said well. That's means you call it amid split champion or victor. Or i don't fucking care but if if you're playing a sixteen sixteen best to five elimination tournament that plays exactly like spring and qualifies you to. Msi it's literally just a spring championship. It is the same thing all right. Well anyway let's move on to say except for whoever's at tenth th place now is already set to the back of the line and the explicit terrible for the losers. Yeah people in the chat asking like to elaborate on like fifteen and twenty four. Yeah that's what i was gonna say. Let's talk your take. Yes essentially like you know. I i guess now. I have to say pathetically no hypothetically if the new format is one trophy one championship every single year. If some new player comes in north america and say i want. I want to get more trophies than or more more. Lcs championships than double left ever has which is seven then. That player has to win eight straight years in a row in order to win it in the fastest time right so obviously being that dominate for eight years in a row isn't really realistic. So that's why. I came up with this sort of like fifteen twenty range. I mean the thing is who who else is close right like x. smoothie expertise close but i mean we'll see how he's not he's not even starting on lcs team. Yeah so who else is would be like in the next range in fact as four. I think there's a host of johnston and win a lot for a long time. I speak names but twitter has four hurdle as four impact has four jensen too. I feel there's some. There's gonna be some player that we're not thinking of. That's been around for a long time but actually so many of the old guard just retired or like are not starting out here so like i. It's gonna be really hard now. I think it really does feel like a new era. You know like like with the format changes on top of one hundred percent. Twenty twenty one. He's a basically a reboot of lcs in so many different ways So you're kinda right. I mean especially depending on how they count the championship thing. It's gonna be really hard to hit that level. I've not only not only the because actually there's multiple ways of thinking about it because not only is it. Just there's less opportunities but also like main you have to be like if you're creating a dynasty that dynasty has to withstand like twice as long as the previous dynasties for these other teams. Yeah that's that's why. I hope that they can maintain some semblance of normalcy between the changes in in this potential format just because otherwise you have to start really thinking about the two different areas like it's just not fair to compare all it that that's already the case though because like from i would imagine season three two season for like you just had players who were winning i. Im championships in winning ipo championships. And so there'd be like a huge trophy case for players who were like moscow five players or W e players that now you can never really get that same amount trophy. So i just think that we've normalized that era where you're like. Internationals are now just two trophies so we just if the new changes are big that that will be normalized in a year or two. This can mr thank you for the call. I thought this was really interesting. And ninety into my mind that i had not really considered You know i think maybe had been buzzing around a little bit but this is a great way of coming at it so it gives me a question to ask right whenever i finally get a chance to talk to them about stuff. I actually like to expand it. One more time if i could sure So basically do you think that like when comparing potential future great players down the road do you think that maybe potentially Players like beard sin could potentially be compared to somebody like bill russell in the nba. So for those who are aware bill russell who he was. Nba player back like the nineteen forties and the fifties severe. Very early on in the nba's Isn't it when the nba was in its infancy But people tend to hold something. Like michael jordan's six championships to a much higher value than bill. Russell's eleven so you know again like hypothetically if you know we do have this one championship trophy. a year format moving forward into the future at one point. Do you value Less championships over the raw mana championships. That players like uplift berson had in the to split spree year era raza mark thing. Because i'm not traditional sports boy. I mean like in general first of all. I think these retirements that we've been seeing including Does mean we should have like a hall of fame for league and it should be global. I know that. Ltl is doing a hall of fame for themselves but fuck that we should have eight minutes a global sport like it's something that ever lived there are so many fa. That's what made sports honesty of for me. Better than others Traditional sports where you are watching every other regions games you are a fan of every other regions games. So like you're saying them in their own region succeed and you just want to be able to kind of celebrate that so to ask the question. Yeah like. I do think that they'll be seen as like the goat for years to come. Because they were the best in their craft for so long. And i think that for the zuma's of the future we want to. You know a a hall of fame to kind of talk about that. Yeah i think it's also unfair to the point about eras. Think about them that way too. I mean You know what was good in season. One and season two from a skill level in an achievement level is not really the same thing in season. Four five now nine and ten before the eastern regions were recognized as regents. You know those international were lot easier to win and nowadays. It's like holy. Fuck chinese team in a best of five. You're actually dope as hell. And i think the standards change with the times for me so like i think. That's something that to keep in mind when when you start talking about greatest players of all time. M j didn't win more than bill russell. But fuck if people don't recognize the greatness. Thank you so much for the call. Anything you wanna shut out before we move onto next caller Just think of me on the call. Thank you for coming on. And we just say that guy sounded suspiciously like Sneaky city too much like sneaky there. I kinda realistic the call. I wasn't picking on. i agree. Listen you again some love in the chat papas razz. Hello he was in steinle like sneaky. I was. I was having problems when he was laughing. When he laughed like thousand no way please. S metrics the prime. And so many things. Thank you for the thirty two months and the prime d- sure i need to get out more like what does it have to do with the point. A hand here. I mean you're not supposed to get out right now. We're under stay at home. How to walk with you know. Yeah you're actually use your cell. La right now right okay. Don't you sound happy about prongs ninety nine. Is here prins where you calling from. I am calling from brooklyn new right now from brooklyn new york. What do you wanna talk about on the show. So i wanna talk about the top three teams. They all see us. I'm really looking at cnn. Good look really strong. And what kind of what that means for the bottom teams in the league. So i know we have a lot of teams that are more budget oriented this year with we grocers. We call this development oriented yes and does actually point bring up about development teams pacific. Golden guardians was kind of what that means for those teams like kind of if they have a place. Because i know like gordon specifically i remember when i get into the league hunter with rosser center on high like everybody was spending big but golden guardians of been more temper. Their hundred kind of talked about hutto golden more developmental at the time And that kind of became true. Look what happened last season. They had a really good team. Another whole team got shipped up to one hundred thieves because of what i assume. It's like batteries and it's kind of what a sounded like. He's basically said as much on hotline league and on the The video that he put out. Yeah so it's kind of like if you have these teams that are kind of developing telling What happens when another team with the higher budget by them off. Lower teams develop fans and another point is that we also have a lot of kind of a rookie is coming in into the league. The with all these strong teams fans kind of have to expect that teams to look weaker than what they might actually be. So i wanna focus on your first point rather than than your second point at first at least and then you can remind me to go back to it if we need to. But i think You raise a really good point which is in traditional sports and in other places There is a reason to care about the teams even if the roster changes dramatically right because those teams do a good job of establishing brands for themselves because they are rooted in locations. And you just like your whole family becomes a fan of them. I know mark has multiple sports teams. That i forget that he is a fan of and his family are fans open. I don't know any that doesn't exist in the lcs really and so becomes a huge issue whenever okay. I was a fly quist fan last year. And now am i still cyclist fan because like whatever i would the reason i bring it fly quest though is because i do think that their brand they have they succeeded in twenty twenty. I think in a way that we've never seen another team succeed in the league in terms of establishing a brand which is amazing because they went from being like a joke to like. Actually i think the gold standard of what to do to say you know you are this I think next year people will know like fly. Quest will continue to feel a lot lifelike west in a way that like if you throw it all the players from their team it becomes kind of difficult You know not to bring up a bunch of stuff that we've talked about on the show previously but mark and i have discussed golden guardians. Did kind of okay job with like certain visual elements and branding in the pictures that they've had but not like a great job in comparison to somebody like fi quest I think hundred thieves is kind of like one hundred has built like a higher level brand think always a great job of trickling down to what they're like league team is but there's something there to And i so. I think it's gonna be really important like if you're a team like dignitaries or golden guardians or something like that. I think your initiative should be okay. We have now decided. I think previously by the way the vast majority of the teams were all saying we're worlds contender and like only this year in going into next year. Have we seen team starts. Say guess what. We're not a world's contender. We're going to try to build. This does taint team. And so so. I think it's going to be very important for those teams decide. They are not world contenders to start giving their fans something else to care about and And a reason to like root for their team even if they're not necessarily gonna be. Hey my name's steve on. I just spent five million dollars to win the split or this year. I don't know for asset. He wants to throw him before for. I give my angle on it. But yeah i mean i agree. I think there's there's a portion of fans he want to see younger talent. It's not going to be every single fan. But there are the tom shoes of the world who want just to see the young guys in there and you can probably get those people as fans just by putting in yazoo or whoever. They think deserves their shot. You know and the marketing that you make around this player then is not. Is he going to be the best in his first split but like hey what's it like playing your first games. What is it like doing this. And so you're you're narrative really changes to present what the pro players going through younger player versus tim time we watched it in a micro series so mini series about the. There's fresher newer things you can try and present to fans and different story lines so i think that can be a way to secure fans. I think you're storyline. Should change every year based off. What your teams actually trying to do so if you are a contender or maybe they even think you're gonna be start being tender. You know you start pushing out different messaging and these kinds of things to your point about the budgets though which is a is a concern that teams will kind of just get feasted by bigger teams. It's possible i mean this happens in most sports. You know big market teams. Get the big name players. That's probably going to happen in lead to some degree i mean. I don't really know if there's anything really to stay to it. But that's just how it is it's teams will have the last laugh when the big spenders all go bankrupt and they're like ha ha now. We're the number one teams. Because steve spent too much investor money and now his empire has collapsed so like there are teams like energy pacemakers in for the you know the l. key on the old days trying to remember the other team. Scenic storm is probably a good example. Like things that i would consider like farming teams. That would do the finding of good talent but then would never kind of like naturally reap the rewards or be able to build a lasting brand. I don't think that golden guardians were that simply based off the messaging. Because it's not like as if it was like. Oh yeah this is just who we are. It was more like it even presented by hundred that this was just a complication because of what's happening in the nba For the year and there was an intent to keep the team together So those are the types of things i like hearing and it does blow. Because you're right if you don't have players even just one player right that is sticking with the team from split the split than you're basically pressing the restart button on branding The only way that i would see in which team can actually somehow retain a fan base or create a fan base around it. I ll as you mentioned fly questions. Done a great job around creating those initiatives to be able to say. Hey you know what. I'm a fan of this in daily life right like being able to talk about the environment if i'm a politically minded or like environmentally minded. I mean now. Have a team that i can immediately just kind of cling to as my side piece or even just as as a primary fan. We're going guardians have been kind of pushing through content like video content. Just one hundred has been doing it too. But golden guardians like mini documentary has been fantastic. And so if you just see more content something that you can see. Maybe merchandise that people can be more like a big fan of and if they're incredibly well at being able to get the personalities from like players like now who i know has a great personality out to the fans immediately. Then you can get like a cult fanbase. Yeah just to answer the question quickly. Like yeah if you if you complete overhaul your lineup. Good luck you're never going to be able to reach the the team. The top three teams and brandon. But i wouldn't say that going guardians are necessarily that unless if that continues on. That just happens for next few swiss than it's kinda dude. I think another interesting team to look at is public last year with digging toss twenty nineteen colored after the ross ahead in summer Demonte vulcan cody son. How they kind of just completely swept through. I really looking to be like a kind of a phantom. A lot of fans were looking to them like to kind of see what they would do. Next season and there are completely blood and digging. Tunnels didn't really retain much fans from that kind of interesting to see With fly quest like they really had branding focus around. Like wasn't focused on the players. Which i think was really interesting. The league yeah right. I just don't think i mean i think kelly said this last Week fly quest is the only team that knows who they are and they all see us and what they stand for. I mean like i get that. They're going to take issue with that. But like steve will say winning and excellence and cloud nine will save winning and excellence and he assembled. Say winning and excellence and like okay. The people like winter like you should be trying to win if you're spending that much money and it's not like a big brand you know Now that doesn't mean that they haven't done good. Branding work in certain areas right like i think Cloud nine has done some cool stuff around trying to build You know like a sort of little leagues thing or like. Trl has great merch to undertake. Great march like have marseille have apparel. I remember i was. This is why if i do hate hundred this. Why hate them. Because i've been told. I can't say march i have to say apparel but And tsm has like their websites and stuff. I guess but but like ultimately those are not great. It's very difficult to latch onto a team for those reasons and like if you did surveys of people and you say what is what do you think of when you think of flight question. What do you think of when you think of cloud nine. I think frequently people will list the players on cloud nine whereas people will list. The branding elements fly quest. So yeah i mean. We'll say this though the correlations going to be there for quest because while they made this initiative there were also insanely successful competitively like next year if they just you know our booty if they're just shit then like that's probably the most important thing kind of recognizing wait a minute. Is this branding means something. Because to your point. I disagree with like the idea of saying because like at the end of the day you have like teams that are trying to be competitive. There's no that's going into the split in saying that we can't make it a world And so one hundred thieves a good branding already. They have a really successful one. That you already mentioned From other games but also just from their payroll line and Yeah like flight. I'd love to see if they can still retain fans when they're if they struggle though. I think they have a good team as well. But i don't necessarily i think a lot of the fan base is just therefore a successful team as anything that like kind of with the players themselves Team should kind of help them build a brand or on themselves. But also the and i think one good example that that kind of helps branding of the team has fence garin from last season. I think he should have gotten a raise for his genius in bangor tweet live evil because easy wasn't doing that well but i think everybody knew you know the hash cycle of evil and banger tweet from throughout the whole split. Just get example of kind of a player heavily branding around the team and not just the player itself that kind of can retain fans but teams need to help the players. You know brand for the teams. Yeah yeah Eatery sorry. We're running a little time. We've got two more calls to go. But prongs thank you so much for the call anything you want to say before we move onto the next caller shutout alienware. Of course alienware dot com slash chavez. And thank you for having me. Yeah thank you so much for doing that. I really appreciate it by the way everybody that does that. We should let you know that. I'm legitimately having somebody cut together. A compilation of all the time is fans have shouted out this stuff especially in the past like ten or twenty episodes so that when we talked about twenty twenty one stuff they can see just like the fat compilation of that nocco. Is that your name. it's nikolay but you can call me. Not anything is fine. Mako we make lovie how. Where are you calling from. I'm calling from philly. Yes that's about it what you want to talk about on the show I wanted to say that would have been like a top tier team. If hotshot g was still like a top decision maker in sales. You like reggie isn't he is more like stephen t. l. or jack and see nine And i think this is a this is. You can probably see the sincere. Gee if you go back in history like two thousand fifteen two thousand sixteen. Cg before Madison square garden but a majority of the Controlling share. I believe a from she'll g. and then you kind of shied away from the scene. I think that was the moment. I think Started slipping in my my sense because they lost a leadership or a primary target. Okay maybe maybe i'm saying. Is that venue lose. Like such a figure like a leadership figure. They lose a target. So in in terms of steve you. Can you always know that he always comes out and says we want to win worlds and no matter what he always leads the team to you know making sure that they've been world and he will do whatever he has to do to make sure that happens. And i think seal law stat type of leadership and that type of a gamer leader. Boeing much like a lot of the other teams. Have i love the stake. Oh you i hate this take Looks like i love the idea so we can just go onto. I want to hear my point too. Because i think you're giving yourself the floor like we just go onto. What i'm saying is to our objection. I'm a host here. Thank you very much I think that losing a central face hurts. Your ran in this. Like really deeply hurts your brand. Because he was talking about wanting yeah. That's why okay now. If you're trying to change the topic maybe we should go with my take first and then we can get to you later. All right before travis might take. Is marcus a jerk. Because i like hotshot. I don't wanna flame him but i now feel like i have to speak speak. I have seen take like this a number of times over the past couple of weeks. I don't know if it's always been that going. An or not. But i felt like i had to take eventually so here we got i mean. I'm not flaming not flaming hajjaj. Good things. i now have to disagree with you. Trust hopefully the scam train and chat will help finish. And then i'll be good. Okay so i disagree with this. Because i don't think that the success that she had in twenty fifteen in two thousand sixteen was because of hotshot Based off of my understanding of the way that roster functioned at the time like People forget about chris. The coach that was with seal g. At that time but i remember people giving him a lot of praise for for that Tony I like it was it was it was mostly that that team and it kind of coming together. Finally after years and years and years of it. I mean we had on the show last week talking about peter's time but like there there were years and years of getting pretty close to being good and just always sucking that finally got to that and like i like hotshot was to mine knowledge not actively involved in the creation those rosters Especially at a certain point And so. I do not think that like like we should he. Let's also defined really quickly. Who what nothing. Sorry go ahead. Let's also define really quickly. Who at cg right now are making decisions around the roster's Sense the massacre square garden. Pickup occurred minor. Sending it has been combination of nick allen when he was there a friend of mine but perhaps didn't build the best rosters Trinity who has been there for a very long time even before madison square garden was there. But i don't think has won anything since he arrived or created that compelling rosser seems like a nice guy like i i hate being positions like this. Where somebody who's nice. I have to speak critically acclaimed. He's had any competitive success while he's run a lot of the competitive side of sealed g at least league side now the tough who over there and then like you can talk about whether or not weld in or some of their other coaches have been involved like none of the people on this list have been able to do much now. Part of that might be because madison square garden is not giving them the budget that they need though. I believe that they will probably be middle to high end of the the numbers depending on how you calculate it this coming year but like i. I don't i in my opinion. If madison square garden is guilty of anything it is not throwing out a lot of the people that have been running the competitive side and haven't found the results over the past couple of years. That is i think they're guilty. Neko came you as well. You're getting a little bit of. Yeah i just muted. I just saw that. I was going to say also to go. Even even prior to further back like hotshot wasn't running as this is cynercit winning. He wasn't in charge of a lot of the day to day stuff even further back. I think his mom took over a ceo for a period of time. Also be malaria time. There's also the militia era right like there is a number of people who prior to the mass and square garden sale. I heard that they had issues. Like i had heard rumors back when i was. You know these problems with crt can they pay their players is is like i like almost every offseason. I heard that their rosters is gonna blow up or something and so. I think this is one of the reasons that reggie gets a lot of credit. Because when he had all the eyeballs on tsm he really locked down everything for them. Not just on a competitive level but a team branding level and all these things to become one of the most successful org league. And i don't know if that that ever happened with cg which it does all feed into each other. It's not strictly competitive. But it's all of that combined to go out and be able to make that happen. And i think the stuff that happened with sales you was a lot of things going right at the right time. Like six was really important. Obviously w was a beast. I think the man find their stride and then the next roster also has some carryover with some really good talent but then it just never reclaimed that. So i don't know. I don't know if i agree. But yeah okay talking about this the wording of this one which is obviously the purpose of it before razz. You take us in different extra. I think fucking direction. I want to hear what nocco was about to say to kind of. Soften let's go your direction which is actually a different direction. I did after getting some inside. Travis and also mark from behind the scenes which i'm not aware of i kind of understand what you are saying and i kind of agree but i would like to say that perhaps the victory that did in two thousand fifteen two thousand sixteen probably was like you said they came together and it was the right time at the right moment and everything was correct for them and they did it. But i do think the lack of seal jeez prominence or their standings they could have been like a top standing team. And i think that the lack of that is because tate lack of strong leadership reggie st or jack and i still stick with that because i think if i had someone like that they could have been potentially a top tier t top tier league team. But i also think since the madison square garden acquired them. Now i do know that. I don't know if it is correct but i've heard that then majority of the profit for many of these teams or many of these brands come from things. Like streamers and many other things and e sports sometimes doesn't make a lot of prophet. Not sure if this is true so if you go in that direction i can see something like a big company like madison. would probably invest more on the streamer side or getting that kind of stuff than the actual team. So i can see how it could get lost in a less priority wise for that team or that org in general and then loses over. Focus but yeah. That's what i think. Because i think strong leadership is what actually makes the whole team. You know push forward stronger. Even an llc concede g2's lot being a very prominent figure in the scene and also a prominent figure in the team. And even if you look at the top. Three teams like tears. T l and t nine am. I allowed to talk travis. Yes okay thank you. So here's the thing like so if we're talking like the original point about You know having hotshot now having shot like your main owner front facing union like person is bad for a competitive standpoint. I agree with that. I disagree with that because obviously like the decisions he made at the time were strong. Strong then doesn't stand the test of time but since mystery came in who was there ordered facing face of ownership like the no winston or. They don't have that it doesn't exist. It's not there like the closest they had was their head coach in tony. No no talking about the York last year coach no less yelled welding greenwald and green and barely it was. It was barely the case right for well First of all like from a branding perspective. It's really important to have someone who's communicating this to fans like consistently has a large fan base at the time like it's obviously deteriorating your year bullock having that forward facing person to be able to communicate your decisions like to talk about this and just to be there is really good for your organization and also creates a sense of responsibility or accountability. Where that's not necessarily there. And i think that the decisions makers that you've been talking about travis obviously share that burden but it's not being answered to right. That's my. that's my major issues. That i do think that they need afford facing ownership or personality so that fans feel like there's a sense of accountability when things don't go well so for the past. I don't know how many years i mean nick allen. I think it was supposed to be that when he was there whether or not he succeeded in that role or not people can can decide for themselves. But i i. We're running on time. But i will just say since you launched into the brand side really quickly. I agree. I think mike. My doubt is with hotshot can suddenly come in and build this amazing top tier roster. I think that that is not clear to me. I do think hotshot leaving the scene. Essentially is doc good. I was not too long ago that they had the like hotshot verse reggie assam versale g. Who's going to get their hair dyed thing. I think it was like in two thousand eighteen and like that was a fun element. The hotshot was a good presence for this league. And i do miss him being around though i think he would probably be getting on a flame if he was still the face of of sealed. You at this moment in the same way. That organization is but i've talked about in the past like it is difficult because i don't even know who i should interview at that organization about anything because they just don't have they don't have like a tricia you know or a jack or any of these people so i do. I do think we would be better off having hotshot here. I don't think he would solve a lot of the problems. That neko nocco. I'm trying to remember how yes but niko but Yes unfortunately we're winding down though. So is there anything you want to shut up before we go onto our last caller. Can i just say my last point at this. I thought okay good. Excuse me right now but go ahead because for me It can change our entire perspective of seal team if they like years years prior. If they're said it's a budgeting issue. It's budgeting issue right or if it's an issue just making the wrong decisions. I just want to know when the like pre before the year begins what their expectations are but even talking about the beginning of this year. The expectations weren't coming from. Cgi was coming from people who are talking to see g. It was like saying oh. They thought this and this and this about their team like okay. That's great. I want to hear that from them That's my last point. Thank you so much for the call. Caller is there any any show. You wanna make before. We are not really but shadow to you travis for being a really nice interviewer in majority and jarrett mark for actually looking through these hundreds of topics and actually making sense of it and then also shadow. It arrests for being a good analyst and also shout up to my friend alexander if he sees this. I'm going to be like high. That's all he's also. Tsm hardcore tm slash double lift fan so he was very sad when retired so and so so many of us were thanks so much for the call. Thank you for the opportunity to have a good appreciate him saying that was a good analyst. Mark you you are. The sister of information he sorry left. Unfortunately he can't hear you Thank you to all the people who sub during our scam train Peron mars mac as photo. Ll duke by fall. Jfk gone k. Us silo cutie and More than i'll very shortly. Nicole is here returning caller to the show nicole. Nicole remind everybody where you're calling from. I'm calling from vancouver. Canada vancouver canada What do you want to talk about on this episode. So i talked about it kinda last time. I want to bring up. Kind of like women in east fourth m i take was specifically like a why women are less likely to get involved not only gaming and escorts but i think a lot of it is based on the fact that in still aren't it's not really considered the common thing women to became gamers which leads some to be steered stereotype. As soon as they're seen as like a gamer and i just caused a lot like negative attitudes in the community and a lotta toxicity that drive sleep or their way Do you want a good topic. And unfortunately i wish i wish we had. This is a topic that i think could take like thirty minutes or an hour unfortunately a little bit overtime but And so i. I apologize to anybody in advance if it feels like. We're not covering this as well as we should. But you want to expand a little bit on us and you can't just talk about like what it put down I i really think there's crushers and attitudes from everywhere. I think Kinda like having your personally by family and also my friends like is something that i talked about with them because as soon as i bring it up like none of my family really plays games on my friends really liking. You know it's really like. I don't know i feel like girls aren't really comfortable sharing ex. It's almost seen as like weird or you know all those stereotypes with the eagles game girls all that they don't see just a normal thing to do so. I think that chases people met by other thing was also about the community because as soon as you see like kind of a girl in gaming right at his kind of like a crazy. Hanger like whoa. This is a little unusual. So i think that really drives people that immediately stereotype them and say. Yeah okay gamer. Girl locks player support player. All these things where it's like yashar. It's funny sometimes but it really does add up necessarily frustrating to not really just be treated as your average player and also. I think this might be a little bit controversial. But i think riot kind of contributes to the stew off at the time and i just want to disclose That girls who like you know the da stuff star guardian stuff. That's fine you do you. But i really think click. It goes really over the top to the point where it kinda becomes a joke like. I've seen a lot of criticism. Acadia thing which i think has been kind of a marketing tool to get more people who are intellect became popsy Or you know a lot of girls into it. Seems like a moral Pendant thanks no you. Click on. That will get you into early. It's gone really over. The top. people are criticizing it. You've also kind of seen this in audit female teams There was one a few years back. I think neither china acharya three support players was a complete mess. And it kinda makes a big joke almost girls and associate status cringe as weird and i think all these things don't really help out. How did the stereotype. so sorry. this is going to say something. Like how i think can kinda be fixed as you know trying to just get rid of those labels and see women gaming more normal thing is obviously. We have frost shocks Kelsey evenly some of the ios tricia in. It's like they're just eastwards. They're here to discuss it. And i really think it just needs to become more normalized. I'm not gonna hit this topic. First travis iago for yeah i actually. I really love this topic. Because i think one idea that i have and it's not even a new idea. It's completely old one. But the point that you made about all women teams. Like i think the intent should be really really clear in genuine from the get-go sometimes like the all woman teams in In china a good example of it can feel against not even cater to women and cater to the men in the scene which i think is not genuine. It's not correct click. I and i've even seen amateur not amateur Third party tournaments one was held in montreal. Not so long ago. That were an all women's team that i thought was a big positive for the at least for women just because it kinda hit what you wanted like. Or what women. The scene want which is like a normalizing factor a genuine way to generate interest in kind of allow Women who are higher ranked or competitively minded or just wanna kind of sense of community in the game that they love an access or a way to kind of format team and be more involved which feels like more of a gateway to what we'd want For the future which is who are like have a lot more women in the competitive pool in challenger or grand master. You can always pick like strong women who are currently there but obviously like creating a stronger pool or a larger pool is something that we want and what you said about the community kind of demonizing and using eagles and all these things and being misogynistic we've seen examples of that and it's not just legal specific it is definitely e sports Ends pro traditional. Sports is something that we have to be. Cognizant i if you wanna be able to Attack for sure. And i think that's a if feels really difficult from where we currently are so one thing i would love to do one i would love to see happen is if riot started by creating a all women like terminent tournaments it could be at an amateur level. It could be at a lower level for sure. But just so you know if you are You know clear level. Maybe but like if you're if you are interested in you want to be able to be a part of a community Kind of be more I guess more embedded in the scene then. I think that's a great way to start. That's i think that's a first step that i'd love to see an attack on 'cause i was going to hit it. Yeah i was. I was gonna say even on the competitive side like i know nicole. You mentioned Sort of female faces that are highly visible. I as somebody who's covered this game for so long as an eastport. i remember. There was a very long time. Where like if. I ever met a woman at an event It was she just absolutely found shocks to be like the most remarkable fantastic person ever and shocks. My friend thinks he's fantastic as well. But after i really a while i realized like people don't again kind of going back before oddly round before frost and i mean calcium and been around for a while but i think maybe in less visible roles there were not. There's like if you were a woman that watched league sports. There was one person anywhere Highly visible that. You could see which was like shocks and i think that that kind of That representation problem was pretty clear and and it. I think the message. Like i get i get that. Not everyone is going to like this conversation because not everybody feels great about it. But i think the message that sends when you look if you are a woman and you're watching league sports and there is like ninety nine percent dudes. That are a part of this. It's like oh this is not a place that is for you And so i have been happy that over the past several years and we are nowhere near where would be great to be. But i am. I've been happy to see at least more. Prominent female faces a show up in the scene among the team executives among broadcasters among analysts. Gts has an analyst now That i saw interviewed on the world's broadcast that is doing great work So i i've been sort of excited to see this this progress over the years. I hope it continues in that way. Yeah so one of the things. I was gonna talk about some of the sentiments of seeing into a chat. Which are i think. Common sentiments that were at one point that i might agree with when i was in high school or something but i've changed a lot on over the years. One of the ones is like everyone gets it. Bad in gaming which i think is something that a lot of people say kinda reflexively when you talk about the culture surrounding women gaming and downplay some of the struggles. They face people who don't know. I did off for a couple of years and like getting. The curtain pulled back on what her experience was on twitch compared to other people. It's really different. There's definitely an extra layer of hate that in. Like i guess you know like attacking that goes on and so like it's something that you might not notice if you are not close with someone and see it personally because otherwise it's it's very easy to make some of these statements to dismiss some of it and you know this is arguably the best women game of all time getting this kind of stuff you can imagine how it is for more regular people and so seeing that another. You know that. That's a comedy you see. And it's it's. It's one that you have to accept that it's really. It is worst for different groups of people different minorities in the different groups. And so it's definitely something to be aware of as well as fact that people talk about how population size kind of nicole was hitting on about how people are expected to be gamers as girls like. There's almost this expectation that they're not gonna take it as seriously which is just as weird fucked up expectation that people have that they're not going to try hard or something you know. There's a lot of this kind of stuff i think. Vienna travis is mutual friend between us talked about this as well to some degree. I think. And there's a lot of these kinds of things that people a kind of put on women who play league and stuff and it's not. You can't paint a blanket statement for all these because league's community might be different then like i don't know like animal crossings community like it's just fucking night in day when you start talking about stuff like that but for competitive gaming you know there. Is this really harsh stigma of there's less women who do play competitively because if you don't know hoffy story I mean this isn't. This is pretty public so i don't think it's anything i can't say but like she started playing. Wow when ex-boyfriends playing all hit him in his friend told her that she wasn't gonna be good and that's why she became the best because she was like. Nah fuck these guys but not everyone has that mindset and you start getting beaten down as soon as you start playing almost and you know how many people have the mental resilience win but how many people have the mental resiliency from the start doing something that people tell you. This isn't for you. You know how many people are going to climb to the top of that as fact that there's probably less approaching it from that angle You know i think it's a. It's a really complex issue. I i just said to maybe say my final bid on this and then give the florida nicole before we close out. The show is like i. I think frequently about how weird it is that we as a society have decided that video games are for dudes generally speaking and it's like think about every other medium that is out there like music and reading and writing and Film and all the stuff imagine if we just decided like films are for dudes like women. Don't watch films that's calms but that's it. It's it's such a weird thing. I suspect that you know years from now becomes more Is like a general thing and like the the folks who don't game right now age out and all that stuff demo changes like we're going to look back and be how. How weird was it that at the very beginning of all this we just decided video games for dudes whenever they are like the i mean. I think everybody in the chat will agree. That like video games. Are this amazing wonderful artistic medium and there's so many different types of it so to imply that like The genera or the medium video games is not. It's just really. It's a very strange way of thinking about things But nicole. I know we are. We are really over time. But i wanna make sure that you have the opportunity to say any other sort of followup thoughts or anything else that you think about with regard to the stuff. Yeah i just It's actually kind of a good transition. Because i was going to talk about how i really the biggest thing preventing audio women from not only you know just being an east west may be playing at a high level because i think sports is like a really unique opportunity that in the next decade or so. We'll see it becomes more equal like play like playing between men and women the warm start startling because there really isn't that you know physical whole kind of barrier that you have traditional sports right I think honestly most of this is a cultural thing. And i think a lot of it does come from your family and friends because just like always. I always had my gaming for my parents. Because i knew you know you get the comments like all. You're gonna just live in my basement all day apple blah mega those two but like when my brother asked hip games all day. I want a pc bubba. It's like oh ha ha you know. Look use earth like my parents literally like refused. Get new see like now like you have to pay for it. We're gonna make sure everything's okay. What will be really brother had way easier time and i think a lot of issues the expectations right and just not used. Maybe girls like having that grind. I think that just in gaming general angrily disincentivize girls from grinding the game console. Of all those you know like judgment model. Make their friends where it's not really comment. Their parents Whereas with boys it's more of a normal set you know like everyone goes home. Plays video games with a friend but not every year old when they start. I think it's a little bit. The parents don't know what to do. You talk about friends. let's basically yeah i. I'm slow rice. The bape responded to things into a chat because some people are maybe some people are are. Maybe you can change the minds here. And it's worth the battle. Yeah i'm just trying so some people say i hate how everyone turns it into a demographic thing Some some times people just are not interested in stuff. As as if generally speaking women have just subsided. inherently biologically like video games are are not for for me. I would say. I would encourage people who have those opinions to go To any there's tons and tons of stuff of when valerie voice check him out the way that women get treated in that game versus the way that dude's get treated when they shop on voice chat and like i will say when i was younger. I don't think. I hope. I was never as terrible as the people that were in that but i definitely probably made jokes about. Oh girl voice or something like that voice chat and i'm happy that i've matured to a point. Where like you know. It's stupid thing to do but like a anybody who does not think that women in the gaming space face considerably different reactions to existing in it than men do and have a very different experience is just fooling themselves. I think also going way. Way back. I i know this is just like a one off. But one of the original gaming Things that was very popular. When i was a kid was called a gameboy There are very subtle ways in which you can market products to men. Instead of women and frequently by the way the exact same product will be repackaged and marketed to men or women in a very different way. So there's a lot different reasons why There is a long standing trend of marketing video games and treating The gen the genders in video games very differently i can i can add one more thing. Kkk two things on this one actually one kinda hitting my own personal experiences but also just another talking about like just to piggyback. Your point about like You speak to a woman in the scene like i know. Oddly in the you're gonna ask her if she already been very vocal about it. Shocks has been very vocal about it within my family like there's a very deep cultural differences between men and women like i would have to fight to do the fucking dishes. You know what. I mean like that with my own mother by the way my own mother has this thing ingrained in her own herself about like the the the generals in what one should be doing one. What shouldn't be doing like those are the types of things that exist within each and every house like i'm sure people in america and canada of different stories. Everyone has their own stories. But like if you wanna know a person's perspective in their own situation. I'd say like really learned from that like understand. That's another point another point that i wanted to buy my own thing like Yeah like for sure. It's insanely hard for women coming in and like even like talking about a specific thing. I i get messages about Like no black people in the scene because like for me at the very least i knows i had to have a thick skin if i wanted to be on the internet with The anonymous shootout. Here i hate voice chat. Because i remember vividly when i was like thirteen. Playing so calm now is in the southern service that i heard the end word a lot of times that shit exists and i got pissed off time so like that's why i think equities important that's why when i talked about having like a women's tournaments to strengthen the community amongst them and feel like they belong because it that if that's not the case in the current environment and you're currently still having these conversations with people to understand your perspective then you should also strengthen the environment over there so that they feel like they're still welcomed i. That's something that. I think really should be the first step Because it's not going to be quick. It's not going to be easy and it's not going to be popular but you should still fucking do it anyways because you know it's right. Yeah to chairman the really quickly. Just want address something. I'm seeing which i know that. This is a very serious topic. But it's hilarious because kobe rated channel horrible types. Not only did this show during this very serious topic but he also told them to spam the obi and so everybody showed up with the raid. All immediately tried to do the rate spam. All immediately got timed out by nightspot. What a great way. Mark wildfire has yes serious stuff. Like the women exclusive tournaments. I think people often look at it from a flawed like from their own perspective as a dude. I'm excluded from the storm. They think is increasing. Somebody even said saw in the chat this time was like its increasing segregation by having women only tournaments and it's it's not about trying. This is not the lcs level. We're talking about an event to make a subset of minority group of people feel more comfortable attending events as a whole set like they can have a their own environment. That is more comfortable for for people to plan 'cause if you've ever been to like women like if you've ever been to emily cheese if you've been to like just like i've gone to local smash events and it's like ninety nine percent dudes and it can be uncomfortable so i think the point is not to separate people but to give people with similar interests a place to feel comfortable in then hopefully that increases overall numbers and participation in events. And then they're still they're still the totally open ones like we're not saying get rid of other events it's not like this mutually exclusive thing where to have one event you must cancel other events. It's yeah i think that's that's something that often gets mixed up with some of the ideas that people are pushing for So i saw. Ali wants to come on a message. Sure but And instead of instead of me of her understanding that. I told her that we're thirty minutes overtime. She's now maiming. Me and the torch but what if we swapped here for me. I think i think the show has got odd. Unfortunately we can't turn this discussion. I think it's important to have it. I wish we had more time than like but we are thirty minutes over time frame and hopefully you know something that we can talk again in the future so Thank you nicole so much for the call and for raising this. I think it's important. Is there anything you want to say. Before we close out the show maybe from sat out or something are you sure can't get awfully on and just cut the show short. Cut the show here and then you let a post show segment awfully. Because i love awfully. I would suggest you went on. I would suggest you. And i feel very sad right now because i'd love to make this happen for you but i i was just reach out and maybe you guys can do something together because i unfortunately have like sponsor thing i was planning on doing right after this and then need to eat and it's also getting close to him. It's going to be midnight. And by the time i'm done with a stream so i followed as they can't have a longer is there. Are there any shots or anything that you want to make. Before we close out the show. I will shuttle awfully hit me up. I love to talk this. You love the year there. You go very good. Well thank you so much Nicole for your time and we'll catch an exam. i pay that is the show Mark is there anything you want to say at the end of the show here now. It was episode. I like taking the more open ended calls fortunate that we pulled too many people before getting to the last topic Which is a big one minute. Useless topics thank you. Had one droning on youtube gironde on the last two topics tough are definitely deserve. The time i feel like it was difficult because there's hotshot don't want it. That's a complicated topic about somebody that i know. I don't want to just like yeah i know. Hopefully we have another stinker of episode. So we can. That's really slow so we can. We can maybe delve into another complex topic. More at the start of the shows we allocate the proper amount of time for true or something razz. Ini shots since you ended up being having a co host with this episode Big shots and nicole for the last question really enjoyed that one like i thought that was a great topic and i think any future topics or shows or anything Around that subject would be fantastic. That's you implicitly signing up to do them yeah travis. Getting there can't can't wait latch. Oddly yes. I think what we will do is in the future if we do. Bring up this topic. I will try to get off. Leon i promise that because it is tough. I think for three dudes to appropriate the responses that we the topic deserves. Yeah and it's it's not planned thing. I mean that's the whole nature of this show. Is this kind of wherever pops up and chat and we saw it so he pulled it and figure it's better to talk about it even if it's a little too short and even if it's not you know it is three dudes i think better to talk about than just sweep it under the rug and just you know. Get house my philosophy on this as well either way Thanks everyone for watching. I will hopefully have more content coming out soon Still waiting on that reginald interview. Which i don't know when it's gonna show But hopefully ends up happening and stick around on the stream. because i'm going to do a quick sponsor thing before i head out to get food Either way thanks so much. Mark and rows for the show. Thanks to all of our callers and this has been hotly upset one fifty two.

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