Aired 2 weeks ago 3:04
Why the cost of airfares will never make any sense
Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal
From the news
Aired 3 months ago 18:59
Part Two: How to protect your most valuable asset - your health | Ep. 67
As we conclude this second of a two-part series on our country's healthcare system, we explore what changes are currently underway. And more importantly, how they will impact both doctors and patients. Department Chair of Health Policy and Management at the IU Fairbanks School of Public Health, Nir Menachemi shows us what these changes look like and how his team's innovation already saves millions of dollars in waste. SHOW NOTES: MATT: On the last episode, we sat down with the Department Chair of Health Policy and Management at the IU Fairbanks School of Public Health, Nir Menachemi, who took us inside why healthcare in the United States is so high, yet still has a low rank amongst other developed nations. Using the nursery rhyme, Humpty Dumpty, Nir showcased how, as a country, we’re pretty good and putting Humpty Dumpty back together, however we fail to explore why or even help prevent him from climbing the wall in the first place. If you missed last week’s podcast, I highly recommend you go back and listen because this week’s episode is picking up where we left off. Let’s get to the podcast… ||ROI Music Plays|| MATT: Welcome to another episode of the ROI Podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business, I’m your host Matt Martella alongside Associate Dean Phil Powell. And today we’re going to conclude this two part podcast by exploring what changes are on the way inside our healthcare system that will affect both doctors and patients. But before we dive into this week’s content, we just want to say thank you for tuning in today. We work hard to put out a weekly podcast that helps organizations make better business decisions. For those tuning in for the first time, we want to say welcome to the Kelley Family. We’re honored you’re taking the time to see what we’re all about. If you have any questions, suggestions for a topic you would like us to explore, or just recommend a guest for our show, send us an email to ROI-pod, that’s firstname.lastname@example.org. And for those who are enjoying our podcast, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. Your reviews help our show grow. So last week, Nir Menachemi said as a country we spend, on average, $10,000 per person in the United States on healthcare. The focus on that spending is being able to put a sick person back together. Yet, access to great care is only 10% of our overall healthy well-being. We fail to address or even prevent people from getting sick in the first place. Nir Menachemi: The healthcare system is a misnomer, and I focused on the term "healthcare" because we really have a "sickcare" system. We also don't have the "systemness" associated with the term “healthcare system”. Systems, and I think of the best analogy as the digestive system, it's a whole bunch of things working together towards one common goal. Our healthcare system doesn't work well inherently together across all these different settings. PHIL: He also used the term “fee-for-service” as a way to describe how doctors see patients. A patient is sick, they go see a doctor, the doctor fixes them and the doctor collects a fee from the insurance company. There are little to no incentives for prevention. As Nir also said, it can be perverse at times because the sicker a patient is the more money that can be generated for the healthcare provider under our current “fee-for-service” mentality. Leaving a lot of room for poor decisions to be made that ultimately affect us, the patient. Nir Menachemi: You ask someone in elementary school and they'll tell you it's your diet and exercise, and those are all those health behaviors that that in the 15 minute clinical encounter with your doctor, even though they know that's what's the most important, they just don't get a chance to focus on it, in part because that's not how the healthcare system gets financed. Reimbursement is for fixing you when you go wrong, not for when counseling you on what to do to prevent you from getting sick in the first place. MATT: So what can be done to change this mentality inside our current healthcare system? The first thing to understand is the culture of how we view healthcare as a country has to change. And here’s the good news, it’s already changing. Nir Menachemi: Right now, we're in the midst of a literal revolutionary change to how we reimburse healthcare in this country. For the last 7 or 8 years, we have been transitioning off of this fee-for-service mentality and on to what's called value-based healthcare. Leading the charge is CMS, which includes Medicare, Medicaid, and the big governmental payers of healthcare, and they're basically recognizing that we're at this crossroads right now. We cannot afford as a nation to continue spending as much as we do, and worse, we have an aging population that's going to go onto Medicare, the Baby Boomers. Mathematically, we just don't have enough money in the system to not focus on prevention anymore. PHIL: According to the US Census Bureau, there are roughly 76.4 million baby boomers that are starting to enter the latter years of life. And if we look at the industry data available, by 2020 the baby boomers are expected to double the cost of Medicare and Medicaid. And this “value-based” healthcare could give us the answer to not only an aging baby boomer generation ready to retire, but also how we can better our healthcare system. It starts with changing how physician offices are incentivized. Nir Menachemi: Value-based says rather than focus on fee-for-service, where the incentive is to increase the number of patients that you see, value-based purchasing are a collection of different payment mechanisms to physicians and hospitals that says, "let's see if we can incentivize value". Value is basically the ratio between cost and quality, so you can improve the value of something by either reducing the costs or by improving the quality. The way they're incentivizing value includes a full gradiation of different approaches. One of the lowest approaches involves what's called pay-for-performance - that says to a doctor or a hospital, if you achieve certain benchmarks amongst your patients in terms of either mortality rates, adherence rates to certain things, or the quality of the care that you provide reaches a certain benchmark, we'll give you a bonus. Pay-for-performance is a very low-level way to change fee-for-service to start being more value-focused. Pay-for-performance also includes the concepts of no pay for no performance, and that also includes not reimbursing for certain things that should've never occurred in the first place. Certain types of nosocomial infections, these are infections that occur within the hospital as a result of being exposed to the hospital environment. That should not occur, and if that happens, CMS is saying they’re not paying for it. Likewise, the whole idea of CMS not paying for hospital re-admissions - so if you are a hospitalized patient, and you go home, you should not be re-hospitalized in the next 30 days. CMS says that if that occurs, they're docking the pay of the hospital that first discharges [a] patient before they should've been let go. All the way on the other end of the continuum is something called accountable care, and accountable care says rather than paying you per person, per issue, per disease, per fix, it re-conceptualizes payment to be, an insurance company might assign a hospital company 20 or 50,000 patient, and say, "you are responsible for all the care that these patients need for the next year, and we're going to pay you a fixed amount per patient, per month." Once you accept that contract, you are responsible for keeping them healthy. If they all get really sick and come to you, that doesn't change how much you're going to make, you're going to have to expend more resources to tend to their needs. If you're, however, able to figure out a way to keep them healthy and keep their disease at bay so that they're not over-utilizing unnecessary care, you'll get to keep more at the end of every month because those individuals would not have used your resources that you've made available to them. That really begins shifting the way doctors and hospitals think about what their role is. Under accountable care, where you have what's called this capitated rate, this per-member, per-month fee that you collect - it starts getting you motivated as a provider to say, "How can I prevent this person from needing this expensive procedure?" You are now suddenly spending much more time on things that previously did not generate you revenue, but instead, is averting the bad outcome for the patient. That's in your interest, under accountable care, as a provider, it's in the interest of the insurance company who doesn't want runaway costs that continue to happen. It's also in the interest of the patient who does not want the complication soon in their future. As a nation, we're learning how to find the right combination of financial incentives to bring everyone onto the same boat rowing in the same direction, because previously fee-for-service was not in anyone's best interest, per se, when thinking about everyone together. MATT: The second thing to understand is this change will not come easy because as organizational leaders, we know how hard culture change can be just inside our company – let alone an entire industry. Nir Menachemi: It's very stressful for physicians, for hospitals, and for all the players where the rules are changing, mainly because these entities and individuals have never really been trained to think this way. You rarely learn in medical school how to keep someone healthy - you are focused much more on how to fix them when they are broken. Hospitals have never really developed the cultures, structures, or infrastructures to deal with people who are healthy. In fact, it's scary to all those individuals because under accountable care, for example, you are responsible for say, the population of patients that you are "at-risk" for - the reason why we use the term "at-risk" is because if they all get sick, it hurts you financially, not the insurance company, because you signed up for that per-person, per-month payment. How do you engage a population that doesn't walk through your clinic doors? How do you think about things to keep them healthy and managing their risk factors so that they don't get sick when the entire history of your business and conceptualization is about, "wait for them to show up in my waiting room, and then fix them". This involves lots of things that healthcare just hasn't been doing well, that we have developed much better outside of healthcare. I always think about how Delta, the airline, gets my loyalty based on status that they give me, and I sometimes scratch my head and find myself in Atlanta on a layover just because I'm so loyal to the airline, and what I feel like I get is a glass of wine and a bag of peanuts, but nevertheless, I am intensely loyal and play the game of I do what they want me to do, and they do what I want them to do for me. I love the upgrades, sitting in the VIP rooms, being able to have my luggage come out first, and all the things that they're rewarding me for my business. All the different hotel chains have figured out how to engage consumers. Healthcare organizations are now trying to figure out how to incentivize the patients that they are at-risk for to engage in the behaviors that makes everyone win. That is scary, in part because it requires business skills, healthcare skills, grounding in marketing, grounding in informational technology - because you need to leverage a lot of data that's available to you - it requires skills in strategy-making and operations, which operations really focuses on quality improvement, which again, plays into value. These are not the average things that physicians, for example, feel well-grounded in. PHIL: A baked in teamwork, as Nir said of allowing a sort of “self-governing” body so to speak create checks and balances across multiple health networks in order to receive reimbursement for providing valuable care to patients. Nir also said that a lot of physician offices are becoming part of a larger health network, like Community Health Networks as an example. He says this also helps in managing responsibility of a population under this new value-based care. Nir Menachemi: When you are an accountable care organization, contracting with CMS, let's say, for Medicare-covered lives, and you get 80,000 assigned to you, you as the accountable care organization needs to be able to provide every last service that this patient is going to need in your market. You need to cover all the different specialties, emergencies, primary cares, hospitals, rehabs, nursing homes, anything that this patient is going to need. You have to band together into these larger consortiums, either formally or informally. You could be acquired and literally be a subsidiary of this larger group, or you can contract with them to be business partners to share these responsibility and the care that this person needs. Either way, whether it's formal or less formal, you are now, as a group of providers, expected to coordinate what you all do for that patient better. For example, if someone gets their hip replaced, that might require a whole bunch of out-patient care prior, an in-patient stay, then more post-in-patient care, and maybe some nursing and rehab. Then, there might be some home health associated with it after the patient is home and still needing some kind of services. If you, as the entity collectively, are all responsible for it, you are going to start saying, "Wait, physical therapist, you guys are doing things that are not evidence-based, and that's taking money away from our shared hive that we were each going to get a piece of". Or, if the group determines that the orthopedic surgeons were doing things that were not consistent with some of the best guidelines, someone might say, "Wait a second, we have no money left over because one of the team members that's responsible for the entire continuum care that this person needs is inconsistent with best practices." MATT: And finally, the third understanding about how healthcare is changing is to see it in action. Nir Menachemi: My group here at the Fairbanks School of Public Health has been working on lots of different population-health management strategies, developing them in conjunction with partners: we work with Eskenazi Health, IU Health, and other health systems throughout the region and country. One of the innovations that we were recently recognized with as being the first place winners of the Inject Tech Competition here at the Life Sciences Summit in Indiana was an algorithm that is designed to improve and identify individuals who come to primary care clinics who might be in need of social services by clinicians, such as social workers, dietitians, mental health counselors, or medical legal partnership providers. We developed this machine-learning algorithm that's running live at Eskenazi Health right now, and basically it helps identify in the morning, with the entire roster of patients coming in today, it helps identifying based on every bit of information that's available to us - which includes all the info embedded in the electronic health record of that patient - all of the information available to us through the Health Information Exchange in Indiana - sometimes referred to as either the Indiana network for Patient Care, or commercially as the Indiana Health Information Exchange, IHIE - all the information that's available to us based on a zip code of where the patient lives, and we have either zip code level data, or in some cases even smaller census-track level data, of things like crime rates, how far they are from a food desert, whether or not there are sidewalks in the neighborhood, what the unemployment rate is, and we take all this information that is assembled from the POLIS Center, the Regenstrief Institute, the electronic health records, and all these sort of different partners that we have on campus, and we predict what the probability is of you, the patient, are of needing either a social worker, dietician, etc. That allows folks in the clinic to then match the neediest patients to the limited providers that are available to help with those needs. Going back to the original thing that I said, the vast majority of our health is a function of our behaviors, and our behaviors are a function of our life circumstance. If you're a diabetic who happens to live in the highest crime area and in a food desert, exercising and eating right is not an option for you. You need help with that, and let's just put this context, a teen with diabetes: mom's not letting him run around outside if it's a high crime area, she's not letting them walk back and forth from school if there are no sidewalks, she's not able to get the diet that this kid needs to get his disease under control because there is no place to buy that kind of food. And by the way, even if there was, it's unaffordable because the “healthiest" food is typically the most expensive. So, if we can have a dietician intervene during that kid's diabetic check-up, and instead of trying not to wait for that diabetic kid to have complications that he will then have to deal with, maybe we can proactively figure out a way to help that family cope with that kid's disease, given their life circumstances. Social workers know how to do that, nutritionist [as well], all of these ancillary "wrap-around" service providers know how to do that. Our algorithm figured out a way to optimize the use of those providers in such a way that we can address the behavioral and environmental conditions that are exacerbating people's health. What we found was - and this article just came out in the current issue of Health Affairs, it's been getting a lot of attention nationally both in the media and social media - that using this algorithm and these wrap-around service providers is able to save millions of dollars in averted unnecessary emergency room visits and hospitalizations for some of the patients that are most vulnerable to having their health exacerbated. This is just scratching the service of what's possible, but this was an innovation of leveraging big data, new artificial intelligent approaches to computation and identifying people at risk, and more importantly, deploys resources that we already have in the community that are just not being orchestrated for the end goal of better health for everyone. Doctors and nurses can do what they do best, social workers and dieticians can do what they do best, and patients embedded in their environments and communities are engaged in such a way that's consistent with their life situation. Everybody hopefully wins, and again, is rowing in the same direction towards the shared goal of improved health for the individual. ||ROI Music Plays|| MATT: So let’s recap. Last week we explored the problems inside our healthcare system, as a country. This week we went into what changes are already taking place and what we can expect as doctors and patients. First, how we view healthcare needs to continue to change. Baby boomers are reaching retirement and our current system cannot support them. But the good news is, we’re starting to see the change take effect. Value-based healthcare offers ways to give patients superior care by focusing on prevention and doctors more incentives to keep people healthy. The second thing to know is change will not come easy. As leaders, a culture shift takes time – especially across an entire industry. Healthcare providers are currently at work figuring out how these changes will be made. And finally, the third thing to know about this change is we can see it at work, right here in Indianapolis. Nir and his team have created a computer algorithm that pairs a patients highest needs with the right specialist. Whether that be a nutritionist, social worker, physician, or counselor, this program is already saving millions of dollars in unnecessary procedures – creating a win-win for both health providers and patients. This has been another episode of the ROI Podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business – where we work hard to help organizations make better business decisions. I’m your host Matt Martella alongside Associate Dean Phil Powell – we’ll see you next week.
The ROI Podcast
Aired 2 months ago 78:41
525 Back in the Saddle
This is the airplane geeks podcast, her emails to educate, inform you explore and expand your passion for aviation, and entertain you a little along the way this episode. We look at a new airline from the founder of JetBlue a proposed change to flight training regulations for experimental light sport aircraft, the devastation to Tyndall air force base as a result of hurricane Michael bombarded as law suit against Mitsubishi. A helicopter passenger saves the day when the pilot passes out and the Lionair fatal accident. We also have interviews from the great Pacific air show at Huntington Beach, California in the EA chapter a one four one stick in rudder fall fly in and poker run. It's all coming up right now. Welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast. This is episode five hundred twenty five of the show where we talk aviation. I'm Mex flight in joining me is I max trescott. He's host of EV. Asian news talk podcast. He was the two thousand eight CF I of the year, and he's an expert on the Cirrus aircraft. Mex-? How're you maximum? Excellent. Happy to be at home and doing a lot of traveling this month in happy that catch up with you here today, you have been a busy boy, we'll talk about some of your aviation adventures. I think a little bit later, but first let's introduce our aviation historian, David vendor who f-. Hi, Hello, everyone. How's everything things are quiet on my end? But I have a little bit of a public service announcement later on but I'm looking forward to being back recording. He s absolutely first off. Let me just. Take a moment to express my sincere. Thanks to all of you who sent your condolences on the passing of my wife. Lisa. I received messages on Email a came in on Twitter Facebook from our slack team texts and cards in it was all a bit overwhelming. But at the same time, it touched me deeply, and well it really made a difference. So so thank you for that. We took a couple of weeks off. But we're now back but starting a little bit slowly will wait a couple of weeks before we re engage the guest we had lined up. I think I need a little more time to keep doing all the things you have to do when when this happens. But meantime, I need to get back into the routine that comes with podcasting. So let's get to it. We'll start with the news is everyone ready ready from the west ready. Her. First item comes from Skift JetBlue, founder reveals details on his new tech focused international airline. We'd previously talked about JetBlue founder David Neilan, creating a new airline in. Here's some of the things that we know it probably won't be named moxie. I guess that's gonna remain the the codename probably not the final airplane airline name. Also Brazil's a Zule will feed traffic to the new airline, of course, Newman founded that airline. He's also chairman of that they're gonna fly from Florida to northern Brazil destinations. In fact, they say they're gonna fly hundreds of routes probably most without any nonstop competition. All of this, of course, is with the Airbus A to twenty dash three hundred formerly know, the airplane, formerly known as. The series and Neilan says that aircraft has the capability of taking off a really short runways it can fly for eleven hours. He says the maintenance and other costs are lower on that airplane than some of the older generation narrow bodies Scott lower fuel burn longer range, and he really sees that as kind of I think is sort of a key aspect of this this new airline. So, you know, it's always fun. When someone starts a new airline. I mean, you never know where it's going to go, but there's sort of some interesting features of this one. What do you guys think, you know? It's really interesting that he feels that they're going to city Peres that aren't currently being flown to him. And that really kind of struck me as you know, unusual. But then the fact that he's using the series. I guess allows him to reach smaller cities with smaller loads since it's not a huge aircraft. In yet still has tremendous range. The some of the city's he mentioned, for example, Scranton, Pennsylvania, which wasn't terribly far from where I grew up. And it's like, wow, that's not your classic destination to to fly into only because you know, it's a city of about one hundred thousand people, so it's not huge. There were some come on under Mifflin. Everybody wants to see that though will cook the cook. Sounds good to me. There are some interesting aspects of it. I mean, the one that really struck me the most was that he said that customers would not be able to initiate a phone call to the airlines. You don't have to speak to us. You won't be able to speak to us. You'll be able to reach out to us, and we'll be able to chat within we'll call you. And I'm like, wow. That's that's pretty unusual. But you know, that those kinds of technologies bring used for other companies. So I suppose it could work. I think we're just used to a little bit more hand holding when it comes to buying airline tickets and dealing with the travel issues. Yeah. He did talk about this this new app that will come that will really be the basis for the, you know, as you say the interaction between the the flyer and the airline, and you know, in some ways, it's kind of consistent with the way a lot of people like to operate. I mean, more and more people it seems to me don't pick up the phone and call a company or some provider of services, even though it may be faster, a more efficient way of communication and said people seem to prefer texting you know, chatting and typing at. At each other. So I can also imagine that being away that they can reduce costs here, you know, without having a a presence, you won't even be able to check in at the airport apparently without this app. You walk in you check in you know, with the app. So I can I can envision there being fewer employees in this airline. If so much of the transaction that you encounter with the airline is is taking place on this app. Yeah. Until something happens. Well, I I guess the agents on the other side of the app have the ability to to contact you to call you if that becomes necessary. But I suppose they'll try to set this up. So that that doesn't have to happen too often. But it will have to happen. Sometimes I would think and I'm wondering if maybe this is going to be more attractive to younger customers, you know, when you about texting dealing with apps and mobile check in. I'm kind of thinking of the, you know, thirty five or forty in in younger kind of crap. Now, granted, you know, folks older than that are able to do that. But I'm just wondering if they're going to have a kind of skew towards a younger demographic than some of the other airlines now, the it's Uber. It's an Uber airline. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Right. Right. I mean, I it's an Uber model and. I don't know if the airline industry will ever be able to follow that kind of model. Yeah. You don't think people are ready for that? Well. Or is the industry not ready for that? I I don't think that I I my problem with app driven businesses is they do really well when things are going. Well, but when they things go wrong. They're terrible issue. What's the worst thing that you can happen with a newborn driver leaving out things like sexual assault or anything? But really the worst thing that will happen is they don't show up for whatever reason. Right, right. Okay. What's the solution? You get another car to them. What's the equivalent here? Right there. There is not really I mean. Okay. You've got a major weather event like a hurricane in Florida. You've got all of these people who are supposed to go through the Caribbean to Brazil. They cancel one flight. You need to be book on another flight. Now, how do you communicate that to the people on the app? How does the app handle the volume that's going to quintupled because not only are you having to try to find flights for the people that are on the on the book flights. But what happens if you need to book them on a flight say with another airline? How does that work? Yeah. That may not work at all. So yeah, I mean, I mean does does the airline just threw up his hands say, oh, well, sorry. We can't do it on the app. Here's your money back. Go. Find yourself another fly. Right. Or you keep a minimum amount of staff on to support the normal day to day customer service issues. How do you expand or throttle the capacity based on circumstances beyond people's controls, which aviation's loaded with it? You know, it's not I don't know. I just a little cynical about this kind of model for an airline now. Could be the best customer service ever. It will probably bake United. Look like, they're complete idiots even say already are. I'm sorry. But couldn't resist could you? I couldn't. But that being said United has got people on the phone. And unfortunately, I know what it's like to be on the other end in phone when someone's yelling at you. But and I have all I have all the empathy in the world for those people who take those calls but an app or board of the point. Let's go something simpler than than flights. What happens if the app goes down? Yeah. There's no what's the backup plan. What's the alternative? Doesn't seem like there is one. But yeah. Trucking one hundred people in the you can't do it on the phone could suddenly topical. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm being overly cynical in their thinking about these things. But just seems like it's not necessarily the best model to be followed. We'll see we'll, and you know, if it goes, according to plan, we'll see kinda soon because they expect the airline to start flying in twenty twenty one. So there. There's not a lot of time between between now. And then don't know what's harder to to bring on bring on the aircraft or get the app developed. I'm not sure which of those two is his more difficult. But I don't know. I think you know, other than that issue. I think which is not insignificant, but David, but I I think other than that, you know, I think it's got a lot going for it. I think the I think the bombarded a planes will fit this Roe v these kinds of missions fit, this kind of cost structure, really really well, but the twenty twenty one is gonna come up pretty quick. There's one other aspect we haven't talked about. And that is that the founder also owns a Zule airlines down in Brazil. And he says that they'll be able to feed him traffic, and they'll do all kinds of things for his new airline that you know, they want to for other companies since he controls that company as well. So that's kind of an interesting combination that might make him stronger in the South American, you know, the code north South America's travel. Yeah. For sure in he is planning on flying not only to to South America. But from he United States to Europe as well. So yeah, this is pretty expansive plans. I think but can't wait to see how this one works out. I have realized this the the two twenty eleven hour range, that's incredibly long, you know, you think of you know, it's bigger brothers eight three twenty and stuff like that. I don't think those will fly for eleven hours. So that's pretty amazing. I don't know if I want to be in a series for eleven hours. I mean, it's bad enough flying Singapore. Whatever that ridiculous thing is it eighteen hours. But I don't think there's going to be any business class and first class seats in this thing, so eleven hours in the series. Not sure I wanna spend eleven hours in a narrow body. I think he is planning multiple cabins. Yeah. He is planning a first class a a life flat business class. According this article and extra legroom seats in coach. But I think they're maybe away from sir settling on the configurations of the planes, and it may be different for the different missions. I don't know. I don't know if he's going to make the the layout common across the entire fleet. But it's interesting. I don't know if anybody can pull this off. I think he's got a good shot at it personally. Yeah. I agree. I think trip blue is very successful air airline, and if he could replicate anywhere close. Oh that kind of success will do. Well. All right. Well, moving on ABC web reports new experimental aircraft flight training policy proposed. And this is something that would be under under a letter of deviation authority in L O, D A, Mexico that a lotta. No, I don't I don't call it. But this is something that's been an issue in experimental aircraft for longtime of the certainly I'm a flight instructor, and I run into people who want to get trained in experimental aircraft. And there is not a way to basically, you know, rent them. I guess you can hire instructors in your own personal aircraft. But the other just been a number of limitations. I think what this really will do. We'll kind of open up the the rental market for for light sport aircraft that are designated experimental. And I don't know that this is going to help out on some of the larger aircraft that our experimental that people might want to be able to rent and get flights Rushton. But certainly it's a start which was good. So let me try to understand this because I was kind of confused. So currently you cannot does this correct. You cannot charge. Someone for flight instruction for what an experimental or a light sport aircraft or. Both. Well, let's see. So they're different kinds of light sport aircraft. The ones that are certificates for sure those can be great a rented. And you can you know by flight instruction in them. And so on I think we're talking here about experimental elyssa, and I have to admit, I don't know the the differences between that and the certificate at once. But for sure for those in the past you haven't been able to, you know, make them visible for rent. And so you would be able to get flight instruction in those and less. It was a personal one the owned, and then I think you can have an instructor. You know, teach you in it. I'm not familiar with all the nuances. I just know that they it's not as clean a picture as it is was for ticket aircraft like Cessna's piper services. So that's interesting. So I it is a way to look at it that, you know, we have this category of of aircraft light sport aircraft, but also experimental. So I mean, I think we're talking about amateur built aircraft. And so by regulation, you can't rent them. And because you can't rent them. You can't get instruction in one unless it's unless it's yours. I think that's correct in. That's been a real problem for people who are building airplanes drink to fly them before. There's you know is finished in the I think that there may be ways that the industry has tried to work around it. But it, but I don't think it's been been real clean. So of course, the EA is very excited about this. In fact, the the government relations director says that quote, the successful publication of this rule in the accompanying policy. Change will create new opportunities in ultralight and sport pilot training, we see ultralights and light sport aircraft is an increasingly important pathway into aviation, and we are working with the FAA in a variety of ways to remove unnecessary barriers to access this is one small but important. Step in that overall process. So I guess the promise of this is good. I hope it. I hope it has the effect that they're intimidating. This is from Asia dot de que dot com. Mitsubishi jet faces another delay with bombarded a lawsuit where I didn't see this coming. Of course, the Mitsubishi regional jet. The RJ has. In countered. Lots of setbacks over the years. It's been delayed and delayed and delayed. Well, now bombarded by has filed a lawsuit that alleges that Mitsubishi aircraft received trade secrets from former bombarded by employees. So these former employees now work for Mitsubishi when they were at bombarded by they worked on the series jet. And according to the lawsuit these employees allegedly sent series data to their personal Email accounts before leaving bombarded by and then walked into Mitsubishi aircraft with that, of course, Mitsubishi. Well, I say, of course, but Mitsubishi aircraft says that these allegations are without merit. That's there. They're quote, and that we see these proceedings as a recognition of our competitive product in this lawsuit, primarily as an attempt by bombarding eight to stifle global competition. Wow. I don't know. I I didn't see this one coming. No. But you know, what I think that this is the case of if there's smoke there may be fire if the need this was set from the the company Email addresses. Well, it's pretty there's going to be a pretty transparent record. I think of of what happened in this particular case, and it to me this is reminiscent of what we see often in the tech industry where Google is hiring someone from apple or vice versa from Microsoft, and even with some of the flying car companies and Uber and things like that. It's very easy. I think for sometimes employers to make a misstep if they bring along some data or someone thinks I brought along some data, and these companies are are quick to to sue because you know, losing trade secrets can be worth countless millions of dollars. So I'm not I'm not surprised that the situation one happened in two it's being, you know, litigated usually companies try to put. Trolls in place to prevent this from happening, usually when you work at a company like bombarded or an aerospace company, you have a, you know, an employment contract or conditions of employment or something that usually specifically addresses this issue of taking company data outside of the company. And you know, my experience has been when it becomes known to the company that someone is going to be leaving that usually that results in them leaving that day. Right. You you do not go back to your desk, you walk out to the, you know, you're escorted out to the front lobby and out the door, and someone will pack up your personal belongings and let you know when you can come pick up the box. I mean sounds kind of draconian but companies. You know, like to protect themselves from from employees. Because if if that's what happened if Bombarda employees walked away with proprietary data and gave it to Mitsubishi bombarded as going to be well, they'll both be in hot water Mitsubishi OB in hot water for you know, utilizing this data, but Bharti is, you know, not without fault in this. If they allowed it to happen at least that's where I'm coming from. I think you wanted exactly the way I saw it from the years, I spent working in in high tech. And I think sometimes when these things happen. It's not necessarily that the couple of these that hurt fault. It's some bishops employees who figure hey can be the the fair-haired golden child in my next job. If I bring on the goods, you know, it may not be the the other company on the receiving end that had anything to do with it. But yeah, I've actually seen companies that have received things just immediately send it back. Full disclosure. It's like pay. We don't want this. Oh, yeah. Then I I think that's really the ethical thing to do in these situations as just make full disclosure immediately. Send that stuff back and say, hey, we're sorry. This happened. It was not our intent. And we wanna let you know. We're we're trying to make this right? Yeah. I mean, I've seen instances where a customer will provide information about one of your competitors unasked for you know, you just handed to you. And you, you know, you you need to know when that's proprietary information for a competitor. In the answer is not oh, you take it back with you to the hotel room, you know, after the meetings and pour over it. You know, you have to you have to return that stuff right away. You know, visibly in some way that is documented so you really, you know, you need need to have sense of ethics for these kinds of things and. That's I think that's the overriding word, and I don't know if a company cultures are going to be different in Japan versus for Canada. I just don't know. But for sure here in the US that would be, you know, treated as hit pretty strong breach the needed to be addressed. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, let's talk a little bit of military aviation. And we heard from a listener this was concerning the aftermath of hurricane Michael, which sort of blasted Florida in a few other southern states. He he writes, I wonder why they US air force hasn't built more hardened. Hurricane proof hangers in areas. Prone to recurring hurricanes the cost associated with the damage to the hangar. Queens at elegant would cover a few hundred hardened hangars. And there's an article in the drive. This is we we finally know how many f twenty two's were left behind it Tyndall air force base during hurricane Michael, David. What happened? There was some damage. I guess to the base maybe a lot of damage in some of the planes. Were there some were not there? What does this look like? Oh, this topic is burden me since the hurricane hit. Michael was kind of a special event it was on Monday tropical storm, and by when it hit land only a couple of days later, it was a category for hurricane people have no idea what it's like to force a major squadron were of aircraft out of an emergency evacuation. I can say that because I know what was involved because it happened to my father squadrons. A couple of times when you have a squadron of twenty four aircraft. Not all of them are flyable at one time. You have hangers. This listen wants to know why the Tyndall hangers weren't reinforced concrete. I don't think reinforced concrete would have handled the storm that hit Tyndall it basically leveled the airfield if you go back to when Hurricane Andrew hit. We completely lost a whole base there to know strength of buildings can cover the the magnitude of the hurricane that hit Tyndall this year. So couple of things one is from civil engineering point. You just don't put up a concrete hangar. You just don't do that the multi million dollars that it costs to put up a hangar. You have to tear down a hangar. If you replacing it. Yes. It's going to protect the couple of airplanes. But over time, it's still a huge investment in money, manpower and effort. Yes, the F twenty two is most valuable aircraft that we have the US air force inventory. We don't have a lot of them that could be argued that. Well, we should have bought more that being said, I personally personally do not ever want one life jeopardized for saving a God damn aircraft from a hurricane. There were far more important things to do than battening down the hatches for the aircraft. It couldn't fly out. So you're talking about evacuating the personnel evacuate the personnel. You can evacuate the aircraft. But in this case, we didn't have a lot of time. But you there's always going to be aircraft. In the hangers with engines pulled you're not going to drop everything to put another engine in the save the airplane. There were families on that base. There were military personnel who needed to get outta there in time. If you've got a week yet, you send the aircraft inland. You've got forty eight hours. You get the hell out of there. And we'll deal with fixing airplanes later. Well, why didn't we save the airplanes because our military's better than that? We save lives, and that base is toast. They're just starting to come back the planes that they flew out where they flew them to right Patterson. Yes. Each coastal base has a relief base when we had the hurricane two weeks before the name escapes me hit North Carolina full Florence. I believe Florence. All of those Marine Corps stations. Shaw air force base in South Carolina. Seymour Johnson in North Carolina. They all have evacuation basis, which are mainly inland. You know, we we have been in a vacuum. Asian base at willow grove for the navy at Oshii Enna and we've also enact from willow grove out farther, west to Ohio, etc. To get the planes safe. But no aircraft is ever worth the loss of life. And this base will get rebuilt. It will cost lots of money, but it's still a matter of lives and. The last comment was is there a cover up going on? They had plenty of time to act. No, they didn't the air force did everything they could to evacuate the important people, the wives the sons daughters, right? The bare minimum people stayed at Tyndall. Yeah. There were aircraft. I saw I saw the drone footage of the Q F sixteens in the hangar and hangers completely devastated. And all of that will get rebuilt, but I don't think Tyndall loss a single life from that hurricane which is far more important. Yeah. And in kind of amazing too. When you look at the the devastation from that hurricane. All right. Well, it sounds like when it comes to mother nature, even when we're trying to protect extremely expensive aircraft. It's it's not always possible. And. As you mentioned David there are higher priorities at times. So we may see this again, you know, with I I would change that verb. There's no may we will see this again. Unfortunately, as far as Bill Terry basis, go you wanna go places, and especially training basis like Pensacola and all the bases in Texas. You wanna be able to train and Tyndall you wanted to be able to train all year long. And there's a reason why those bases were there. The weather's good all year long most of accepting. Yeah. Well, but yeah. No. I I get your point at. Yeah. I mean, it's there's a reason why we've done what we've done there's some of the oldest basis. You know, you don't learn to fly in Chicago. And this goes for not that we. A lot of hurricanes on the west coast. But here's something probably don't realize, but Miramar Marine Corps air station. Miramar? I think is only maybe twenty miles away from the San Andreas fault. The more is almost on the San Andreas fault. Mother nature will always win. Yeah. All right. Well, sometimes you can grab control the situation yourself. Now, if you're fighting mother nature, maybe not so much but moving to another avoir story. This is passenger grabs controls after pilot collapses. Now max t sometime, I think probably, you know, people are pilots maybe daydream about what happens in that time where somehow the pilot is incapacitated. He and you get to jump up to the cockpit. And and save the day. This is sort of a variation of that story. But it's a little bit different. Isn't it? You're right on all points there. Yes. I think pilots often think gosh, maybe I'll be the hero and say the situation on the airliner when we discover that both pilots had the chicken. Going to eat some help up there. What's really going usual about the story was that the the passenger up safe things was not a pilot, and she was in a helicopter. He's thinking helicopters being pretty you know, helicopters are inherently in instate unstable. If you gotta let go with the controls for more than a couple of seconds. Yeah. You're. An unusual attitude in this particular case, it was a tour which was going on in Hawaii in a Robinson r forty four and this couple had just gotten engaged part of the celebration was to, you know, go for go for this flight over a why who shortly after getting engaged the the the the bride to be was in the front her her her fiance was in the back, and apparently the fifty seven year old pilot temporarily blacked out had some type of medical issue in became apparent that he was not increase the aircraft. And I think in a separate story. I read not this one that, you know, the the lady initially thought, oh, maybe he's, you know, joking or kidding about you know, being unresponsive. And yes, there are some people that might make that kind of a joke. I think scaring passengers purposely with those kinds of things is just, you know, just just. Terrible. Absolutely. You know, unspeakable, please don't do that to your passengers. It's not funny, and they probably will never fly with you again. But this was actually apparently some type of medical issue. They don't tell us exactly what it was. And as the aircraft apparently started to pitch forward die for the water of the fiancee in the back said to, you know, pull back pullback, so she crept forward on the cyclic. And so if the that was pitching forward pulling back on the cyclic, wouldn't he'd get it more toward a a level attitude. Now, they say that hit the water pretty hard and there were injuries but everybody survived. My guess is that if you know, he passed out, and he'd also let go of the the collective, and so, you know, most of the the upward force was gone. So all they really did was kind of get the pitch of the aircraft right before it hit. They weren't able to you know, perhaps arrest the downward descent as much as if they've been able to pull on the the collective the throttle or. Four is also on the collective and that had probably rolled down. So they were probably, you know, with a very little power as they were coming down. But yeah, I would say it's quite credible that she may have saved their lives by pulling back on the cyclic. You know, just in types. It's it's a remarkable story. Yeah. It really is. I would I saw the headline. I assumed that this was you know, an airplane than what I quickly learned that this was a helicopter. They would. Wow. How do you know who knows how to fly a helicopter besides a helicopter pilot? You know, not not too many others. Now, obviously as you said, she didn't fly the helicopter. But it does seem like she was able to to pull back the stick in a way that softened the blow maybe a little bit. So she ought to be feeling pretty good all three of them. I guess the the pie that there's a lot of detail. I just really what happened to the pilot other than this was some kind of a medical issue. But the sounds like it was. Maybe temporary. But the the FAA in the NTSB are investigating. And so we'll we'll hear more about it from them. Then for helicopter pilots who are listening in her may say sick like yeah, I did mispronounce at cyclic. So I I think I said it both ways, but you know, I've had a lesson and a helicopter somewhat familiar with them. But hoops, the I did I did miss pronounce that control. There. You did have one lesson was that interrupts John it wants as a matter of fact that was an art twenty two years ago with the Lantana airport, which has been in the in the news because of all the Tf Afars that are associated with presidential visits to to Florida and spent I think it was one point three hours tooling around in that thing and holy cow. It was fun. It was not just a discovery flight. I said give me the real first lessons that we spent time on the ground cover hovering. We spent time, you know, in flight the flight portion relatively easy by comparison the hovering, and we have least ten twelve not wind at that time. Why? Wow. That was really challenging to try and keep the aircraft in in one spot with that kind of wind. Yeah. The are forty four that was my one one trip ever in a helicopter, which was amazing. I was in the back seat. And that was just a spectacular. Way to spend part of the afternoon. Well, another water landing that didn't work out. So well from Australian eve lion Air, Boeing, seven three seven max. Eight crashes in Java c. Lion air courses, Indonesian low cost airline flying. This really brand new. I think as in delivered August, I think of this year seven three seven max eight took off from Jakarta crashed into the sea thirteen minutes later, all of the the passengers and crew aboard are missing and presumed dead. They they have as we record this, you know, found the site, but. Yeah. You look at the flight radar twenty four plot shows that they reach an altitude of about fifty five hundred feet, and then there was a rapid descent and off the radar and and somewhat inexplicable as well. You would think by that time they would have the autopilot on everything would be going. Well, now granted they were probably out. I mean, they were over the sea. And I think it was at night which case, you know, you get some type of disorientating over the water, but I wouldn't expect that from an airline pilot flying capable aircraft like this. So it is it is a little confounding this airplane crash for for Noel, unknown reason. Now, the water is more shallow there. I say more shallow. We've been searching for years for the the loss. Millage airlines jet this one I think they're going to be able to recover simply because it's a more shallow there. So we'll probably have eventually get to the bottom of what happened with us particular. Aircraft and the and the fact that it had maintenance issues today before. Yeah. Which may or may not be related. So it's certainly possible. Yeah. What what I'm surprised to read was that in two thousand seventeen touch. This was true. I read somewhere that there were no commercial airline accidents. No deaths and they were in the world. And wow, that's true. That's amazing. Yeah. I thought there had been some. But maybe not now air is kind of interesting. They I think their first flight was in the year two thousand and they are actually. The the second largest customer of of Boeing they've got a lot of Boeing seven three seven's a lot of Boeing aircraft over. Yeah. Little over a hundred mostly seven three seven say, they do have a seven four seven and they do have a couple of Airbus A three thirties, but lots of lots of new Boeings, and they have something like Saif hundred more on order. So they've been growing they they have had some problems in the past. If you look over some of the incidents, some of the accidents, many of them, maybe all of them, but non-fatal accidents, but some pretty serious accidents in that short period of time. Also, I think at one point they were banned from the EU. But I I probably shouldn't because I'm not sure I think it might have been because of poor the rival performance. As opposed to safety issues. But I did look just you know, before we record this. If there was some something new on this. And the New York Times is his got a little update on it. The New York Times it says a spokesman for the country's air navigation. Authorities said the aircraft had requested permission to turn around several minutes after takeoff. So that's that's very interesting. But it is a developing story, and there is even a little bit of conflict. And some of the reports is to the number of the the number of passengers that were aboard, but it seems like a hundred and eighty one, but it might be plus or minus one or two depending on which report you look at so very tragic, of course, our our hearts, go out to the the families of the victims and all those affected. Do the quick check and twenty seventeen there were no fatal jet air. Craft commercial accidents that were in about ten fatal 's involved turboprops cargo planes things like that. And the contrast that with twenty sixteen which they said, they're actually sixteen accidents among airliners. So that was statistically quite an anomaly. They have twenty seventeen co from, you know, sixteen accidents two zero in one year. Yeah. Amazing. All right. What's up with the geeks? You know this. This is sort of become the max trescott segment you're doing so you went to another AARP a fly in. I did I went to the fourth and final one this past weekend, which was in Gulf shores, Alabama, and if for folks who've never been there, it's a pretty cool part of the world. That's my third visit to a Gulf shores first time was teaching about ten years ago in Cessna four hundred aircraft and the second time was refueling. We didn't actually leave the airport property, but I like that part of the world. It's really really cool at the fact there was a there was a fire truck we saw the airport. It said big beach small town. I mean, huge letters on the side of the fire truck. And I thought, you know, that's that's very cool. That really describes it. The the beach runs for miles and miles and miles on this, you know, thin strip of land. But there was a good crowd at the airport. I would say from what I saw probably the biggest attendance of all four of the regional flying's were held this year. Whether turned out to be interesting in that Thursday the day before it rained a couple of inches, but things were clear by Friday. The I was driving from New Orleans where I flew into. Oh my gosh. At one point. I was down about twenty miles an hour on the interstate because it was so heavy that you really couldn't see very far ahead of you. So the weather worked out perfectly cleared just in time largest attendance. I've had it the presentations that that I've done. So I think it was a really good turn out all the way around. But then the fun part. I mean, the really really fun special part for me was on the way home. I left a little bit of really. So I could spend some time. Touring the battleship USS Alabama in the submarine USS drum, and I had never been on a battleship horse submarine before toward two different aircraft carriers, and these were distinctly different in really, very interesting. I mean, the thing I was struck by the submarine was just how small and narrow it was some of the passageways were difficult for, you know, tall adult to you know, to to get through. And by the contrast than touring, the Alabama was oh my gosh. This thing is huge. You know, there was just space galore. So veer to very interesting contrast. And the interesting thing about the album apparently is the only battleship in the world in which they've cut into the side of one of the sixteen inch gun tour. So that you can walk inside. Otherwise, only access would be very tiny door at the bottom, which I guess another the other battleships on display let you in through. So it's amazing actually get inside that turret, and they have a lot. Of the five foot tall twenty seven hundred foot pound projectiles in there, which the Alabama could shoot nearly twenty one miles away with good accuracy, pretty phenomenal be inside of one of these gun turrets, and you know, see all that from first-hand basis. Some I would encourage anybody who makes it down to the mobile Alabama area. Definitely check out, you know, the battleship and submarine. They also had a lot of airplanes on display. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time to stop and look, but they had this are seventy one Blackbird there. They had a be fifty to those who the two I noticed in a lot of other things as well. Okay. Mr trescott. Here's your question. Oh, no. I'm so screwed. Good. Let's see how well, you know, your submarine trivia of sure good, what was the US drum. They who was the US drum named after. You know, I think I read that. And I've forgotten it already. Go ahead. The drum fish, oh, what's a drum fish? They make a drumming sound all US submarines up until the fleet. Ballistic submarines and nukes in World War Two they were all named after fish swordfish drum fish mackerel. So if you go back and look at your submarine sub mariner history, you'll note that they were all named after fish in the US has drum was named after the drum fish. Which I read was one of several species which make a drumming sound, which was news to me. I had no idea that any fish did that so so there you go back. Search there's some there's some trivia for you to share with all your friends. Oh, and by the way, max all all three of the Missouri class battleships that are on display. The actually all four we'll let you go into the turrets jersey, Missouri. And oh God. I should know the last one, but Wisconsin. So you all of those on display now, the Missouri being behind the Arizona in Hawaii, the Wisconsin in Norfolk the New Jersey in Camden and off the top of my head. I. What is in San San Angeles was up here for a long time. It was in the was refused fleet. I used to see it sitting there with all the other mothball ships. But they towed it a couple years ago down to Los Angeles to be a museum there. So folks, just so, you know, I am an max I'll use this the drum into my just thing of the week. Yeah. In case anyone's looking this historian here got let go from his job two weeks ago. So he's looking for a new position. Well, it's knowledge on marketing, history, etc. So if anybody has any leads or some advice, I'll be happy to take it. I'm looking for a new adventure? And I'd like to at this point in my life. Maybe do something I really like in the industries, I really love. So with that. I just going to say if you wanna send me a note, send it to gave it at the US digest dot com, and I have had some real help from art. My are you a listeners? But again, I really would like to do something at this point in my life, where I'm in an industry, I love, and hopefully, unlike other podcasters won't make me leave pike casting. So we'll see. All right, good. Well, we've got us. We certainly got a great network of of listeners and friends, and maybe someone will have some ideas for David that would work out really nicely. Now, we've got a couple of recordings some from Brian in one from mica both of them attended some events recently different events in. We'll start off with Brian Bryan spoke with representatives of the air show sponsors FedEx and the Lyon air museum. And he was at the great Pacific air show was in Huntington Beach, California, just recently October nineteenth through twenty first twenty eighteen in Brian also talked with a former guest in aviation attorney, Ray Johnson and also some very very enthusiastic fans. But first let's start with Mark Foster who's president of Lyon air museum. This is Brian. And I'm here with Mark Foster, president Lyon air museum. Mike, welcome to the show. Yeah. Well, thanks for having us Bryant. Really? Appreciate it being a sponsor of the Huntington beach air show. How did that come about in Weiser museum sponsor of the air show? Yeah. It's kind of interesting few years ago before the show was even created some friends of ours came to see us one day, and they said they had this idea for doing an airshow at Huntington beach. And we thought, wow, that's a great idea. But how are you going to pull it off? And so we told them, well, you know, we think it's a great idea. We'd be happy to be on board. Let us know what we can do. And so little time went by. And they got in with the, you know, obviously, the local government here and got everybody on board and started rounding up sponsors. And next thing we knew you know, we were one of the major founding sponsors. And you know, we we brought our C forty-seven here for for doing fly bys, and and then we also we provide space on our flight line. So we do all the operations for the civilian all the airplanes that come in and perform the show just about on the exception. Like, the the funder birds. Who based out of Los Alameda here are on our ramp during the week. And that's all that, John Wayne, John Wayne. And the neat thing is, you know, when we built the museum John Wayne airport two thousand eight I knew right away having come from a place where we could do airshows, right? Where the museum was located being chino. Right. Yeah. I thought well, we're not going to do shows here. It's John Wayne for this too many airliners flying in and out of here. And now all of a sudden we have an ear. So that's literally, you know, three minutes after you take off your in the performance boxer the other performers box right over here off the beach. So it's worked out really really well to be able to, you know, have this show, and it kind of be our own show. Right. Nor there any challenges being at the beach versus a traditional air show at an airport. Well, you know to the the markers, obviously, the the box. I think you know, they got floating markers instead of stationary markers on runways and things like that. But no, I think crowds. Obviously, the crowds are a bigger deal because it's harder to get one beach on all that kind of stuff and you'll you'll notice the difference between this show if you were a die hard person who had to see airplanes flying every single. Second at an air show. Then when you're at a an airport, you can see them take off and land. Right. You don't get to see them take off and land if everything goes correctly. You don't see him take up your other than some of the search and rescue stuff and the paratroopers, you know, I it's coming in. But you're standing with your feet in the sand. It's a beautiful day. You got the ocean right there. So nobody cares airplanes. They're taking off Atlanta in front of you just to see them perform and everything it's the biggest party around. And I think this is probably one of the biggest outdoor gatherings of people in the history of the world will be Chet. Yeah. Yeah. Death ray. It's it's a it's a really big deal. So it's it's wonderful. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the museum and the collection? Yeah there. Yeah. Well, so we we built the museum the end two. Oh, eight we open it up in two thousand nine and it was founded by general, William Lyon, who was during World War Two. He started off as a flight instructor civilians plight structure training, military pilots, then he started ferrying airplanes all around the world. So he was delivering its very command. And then it was a combat. Pilot in Korea, and he flew c forty six isn't see forty-sevens. And then he'd be ultimately became chief of air force reserve, and that was a seventy five to seventy nine retires Major General, and he's he's been home builder in the area willing line homes. And so he wanted to make sure that the kids learn about the stories of the greatest generation. So you know, he started collecting. Yeah, he be eight twenty six and twenty five and then later DC3.'s and see forty. Yeah. See forty seven and then also seventeen and and we had those at the airport. He thought well, I gotta make this be place where kids can come in. So so we got secured a lease on the airport that we could build a big building. And and get the museum started. And now, you know, it started to be, you know, it'd be tours on a case by case basis kind of thought turned into seven days a week. Yeah. And you definitely have an awesome facility there. So yeah, it's a beautiful facility. And when you come to visit liner museum, yet one of the things that are a couple of things that stand out one is it's all glass on both sides. So. Look out through all these class pains. I think there's like two hundred seventy glass windows or something two hundred sixty ask the cleaners, and and that's only one side that's just on the runway side. And then the parking lot side, there's another bunch of glass there. So it's really open and airy the floors are painted white. So it it really it really puts the focus on the airplanes themselves, and because they're just in such a clean environment. And and it's kind of a neat thing for us. Anything new at the museum that you can talk about or anything coming up. Yeah. There's there's there's always something, you know, some of some new adventure some new event we're doing, but we're getting really into on the educational side. We we're already part of the Newport Mason unified school district six curriculum. And so we get the sixth graders coming in all throughout the year. And they meet our doses and so forth, but we just added aviation for kids program. And so it's basically an introduction teach kids more on the stem side instead the history side, and so we have a flight simulator. And you know, the kids come in they make lighters and they get to build them on the spot. And and try. Out our hanger, and then they get to take them home. And it's pretty neat deal as an excellent. The virgin galactic thing or something. I don't know. But but anyway, so that's good. And then we do these history on the flight line days. A few times a year we do open cockpit days for the airplanes. Now, we even have you know, we we have cars there's well. Which is kind of funny near museum that we've we think there's a big crossover, and we'll do anything to spread the word about the greatest generation. So the idea is if we can get car guys come in and see these really crazy. You know, unique cars we have and it gets more interested in the airplanes or gets their kids more interested in airplanes. And that's what what we do. So we do car events airplane events motorcycle events, but it's all around liner museum. And it's right there at the airport, which is greatest very inconvenient. It's easy to get to. It's kind of hard to find but easy to get to. And you know, where it is. It is on the airport. Sometimes people think it's next to or somewhere, but it's actually on the airport, but it's on the west side midfield, John Wayne airport. So it's basically a across from the terminal building you have to go around circumnavigate the airport ended up on the west side and the website for. Listeners to find out more about the Lyon line air, museum dot ORG. So liner museum dot Oregon lion is spelled with a y so it's L Y O N air museum, and you know, nowadays like Instagram and Facebook and all that we're Lyon air museum. So L Y O and air museum. So you can really see day-to-day what's going on Instagram, Facebook and our website. Great, mark. Thank you so much time. Yeah. Very great next up. Brian talked with Tina Rogers from FedEx who I say headed display an aerial display. Hi this Ryan from the airplane. Geeks Ibero, Tina Rogers Federal Express, tuna, welcome to the show. Thank you super excited to be here. Never show to have FedEx year. Why FedEx and why the Huntington beach or show? Actually, not unusual for FedEx to participate in their show because as you know, we are in airline very supportive aviation community. We have more than six hundred airplanes in our fleet and over four thousand pilot. So we are a member of the community. And that's why we support it. No, that's awesome. You just wouldn't think air show and FedEx aviation part completely get shared in are you based in Memphis, Memphis. I work at the world headquarters in Memphis, Tennessee, the weather here. Today's not such a bad due to either here today. Amazing. I'm absolutely thrilled. A couldn't couldn't have picked it better. Some fifty seven that's flying this up part of your mainline fleet. You've just taken it out of service for this airshow. And we had to look at our operation to figure out where we wanted to fly out of. So they're actually flying in and out of San Diego. Each day really crew members are staying in Huntington beach drive to San Diego after the briefing flyover fly back and then drive back in the mornings for the briefings so solely based on. And what we can spare for the air show coordinates ninety four the performance that they're going to do if they're leaving from San Diego that must take a bit. Yeah. It does. We actually have calls usually once every two weeks for about a month and a half prior to the air show with air bosses here. And with our crew members in Memphis, our maintenance operations control center and are GMC center. So we all have a coordination team that has conversations biweekly to coordinate the schedule and how we're gonna range and addition to what direction we're gonna fly airplane over the air shows one of the things that people have been talking about for a while now is shortage of airline pilots, a FedEx experiencing that as well it if so what are you doing to combat that within the airline pilots and started a company when it's brand new and it's forty five years old. There's some attrition in the middle of that. We've got a couple of programs that we're working on one of them is called purple wings, where we're doing pilot recruitment all over the country, one of the places that we did it recently was that EA which is the largest airshow in the country. So we. So we definitely have a plan in place to replace some of the pilots that might be leaving with new ones that we want to bring in awesome. That's great. And as far as performance today. What can we expect to see you'll see a little bit of a slow past at first? And then you'll see a little bit of a faster one and you'll wave as he flies over FedEx, not everybody's familiar with the wave of a larger aircraft. They kinda go side by side. And just kind of tell you the low that they're coming by. And they see you downstairs a little bit more of a tilt. Snow is here last year and saw the the fly by so similar to to that it similar, but they've done a little bit of movement over the air show last year they were farther away. So you'll find that it's a little bit closer to our Shelly. So you just get a better visual this a little bit closer to our tents that it was last year grew people looking for more information or FedEx or to join the airline where should they go for more information? Well, we've got a career website. That's FedEx dot com forward slash careers. So that's the easiest way to get information on what's available all over the country. We hire all the time in all physicians. Not just for. Pilots in our operations courier physicians in handler position. So we're actually in the middle of our busiest season of the year right now. So it's a good time to look into jobs at FedEx at somebody's interested. Fairly large facility at LAX. Are the flight crew space said of Elliott source everyone in Memphis. All over the place. They have certain basis. Everybody flies in and out of Memphis in and out of India. We've got we've got many hubs in other places outside of just Memphis. So the majority of our pilots are based out of Memphis, even if they don't live there, but you can also be based out of our other hubs and other locations. Thank you so much. Thank you. Nice to meet you. All right nixed. Brian spoke with Ray Johnson previous airplane. Geeks. Guest. At the Huntington beach air show, and I come across Ray Johnson. Former guest of the airplane geeks. Rick welcome back to the show. Welcome. How did you like this one? It was a great running into you. At the tent you had your table setup. So you've apparently gone from the beach to attempt to the major sponsored tent well done well this year, they they have this. It's new and it helps the whole show since Breitling pulled out. Was not happy. Pulled out they have to get sponsorship some other way, hopefully, more more California's decide to do that. And your air force Thunderbirds were here to show. What did you think of them this year, they were and I love them, and it just brings back memories from my own flying days, and that's kind of fun too. That's a it's cream on the cake. Besides the Thunderbirds would would other performers. Did you find interesting this year show? Well, I like I didn't get his name, but the very less than playing. It was a biplane. I thought he was just terrific the grandfather with five grandchildren. I don't care if if he is or isn't he knows how to fly. He was just terrific looked through the show notes and find out who that was. But those definitely an impressive and performance. Then there was the special yank that was what do you think of that? Well, that was a little hard to take it. I. I literally when I first saw I did not know it was coming, and I looked at it looked to me like someone put to airplanes together and was flying it around. And sure enough someone put two plates together was flying around. I was impressed that he could do so many hygiene maneuvers with something like that. That is very impressive. Yeah. Without a falling apart. This coming out of the loop and things like that. And I'm my love is with the thunder barracks and the F sixteens. That's my first love. And just refresh your listeners memory what what did he fly in the air force? Well, I had pleasure. My first year in air force. I was over in Vietnam and I flew forward air control tighten things. And then after that I was with a pilot in thirty seven primary jets. Then I went on to be eight minutes 'cause flight pilot t thirty eight which is the trainer version of the five and the t thirty seven sent time and finally. I got a chance to fly the fifteen writing in that was kind of fun. I like that with your practice specializes in evasion or one of the areas specialists in any interesting cases that you might be able to talk about what we just concluded one. But unfortunately, the manufacturer involved put up the confidential -ality audit to little Harvey of me to say. To say almost nothing. Can I two years of my life a little tough? But it went really wealth. Amac minds that was. In general. Gee practice. What's your what's your? Well. There's a typical client. What would they do generally representing good numbers of ten highlands crashing with lame toward the crash, and we find out that? In fact, it's some type of defect in the airplane maintenance problem with the airplane. That's typically what I do. And it's you know, it's my specialty. I guess you could say is is actually military aircraft crashes around the world. We've done cases involving fifteen Casey one thirty five f one five and others, but good grief, and if someone wanted to get in contact with you if they had a legal issue where would they find you? Will probably be my websites the best which is our PJ, which is my initials, Paul Johnson RPG law LA W, and then core seal our peak the corporation, and so it's our BJ Corp dot com. Great. Thank you so much. We'd be in the show is great senior here Huntington beach show. Thank you, Brian next time. All right. And that was episode four hundred thirty four I believe we're Ray Johnson was our guest. So you can learn more about what he does there. He then finally Brian rain across a couple of very enthusiastic of visitors to the show. Brian for the final interview the Honey Beecher show, I'm with Jessica and van. Hey, guys. Welcome to the show. Here watching the show with you your unbridled joy. Birds fly. Possibly explain what you're feeling what's in the demonstration team in the air. It was like giddiness just being a child again being excited about something that I've loved forever. There's nothing like it in our no other feeling my heart pumping feeling of them flying over the noise was the precision was what was it about the show that did it for you for me, the noise, I love it. For me. I think it's the skill the expertise, and it takes to get to that point where you can fly so close to another plane and not have any kind of worry or an and with the kind of expertise like you mentioned like just precision of execution. It's amazing to me. Citizens to become a pilot. My dad used to be a pilot. So I've always been interested. But this I told him even before we came it was I was like this isn't going to help with my wanting to become a pilot. In the military or commercial or what type of? He was a private pilot before he became a quadraplegic in. I'm he actually had a couple of flights before he became a quadriplegic. And he he's been pushing me to come on his own and still looking at him his face as all the demonstrations were going on that was he loves it. And I think that's he's passed it on to me, you can tell like just even the amount of people here, the joy that this kind of sufferings as it's in east it brings up the question to me because if he years ago when the government was going through peninsula, too and sequestration they stopped doing these performances. I think that that was his stake. I think I can speak to you and say the clearly that was that was mistake as well because inspires people right to get into the field of aviation. Absolutely. I mean, I can't speak to what was going on in the government. And where the funding was going and things like that. Of course. But but not. Being said, I do completely agree with you in the fact that if you take away the joy and exposure to to younger people, I mean, I'm not calling myself young. But. You are. Dot is definitely a travesty. You know, you definitely need exposure the skill. How many kids are here on the beach, right and ten of them aren't higher Jesus as a career? I think it's worth it. I think it's to that. I'm I think it's a world that you don't know into your exposed to you know, there's there's so many abilities of like other professions to just watching TV and stuff like that. But if you you're not there to witness, it, you really you're missing out mazing. I wanna see it again. Too bad to this day. Thank you so much for you, really think tonight. It's great there. You have it right there. Why one reason why air shows are so important? Okay. Before we get to Micheals report. We do have a positive airline story of the week. Who's got this one Maxine your I just saw this on Twitter a couple of moments ago when it comes from a former guest of ours. Jennifer who works for a or pardon me Jeniffer. It's it'll on the Twitter. She works for a large commercial airport in the midwest. And she just posted this on Twitter. She wrote a passenger accidentally took her husband's keys with her to Fort Myers rather than leaving her to deal with the problem on her own Southwest Airlines, flew them back on the next flight. Nice. I thought that was a great story. Now, I reposted that story. And I added a comment to it. And I said Southwest Airlines saves a marriage. Excellent. That's a nice one. All right. Well, now, it's listened to mica. He attended the EA chapter one four one stick and rudder. Actually, it's rutta are you DA fall fly in and poker run in. So here's Mike. After attending EA chapter one, forty ones annual Sperling farm pancake breakfast and fly in July. I was truly looking forward to their snicking rudder full fly in poker run in early October local helicopter pilot and regular airplane. Geeks listener, Ernie eating invited me to fly with into the event at the Lymington harmony airport from Sanford Maine for those of you following along on your charts at home that's a flight from SF 'em Sierra foxtrot, Mike to sixty three. Bravo. Well, it's actually a long drive for me to Sanford, then it would be to drive directly to Lymington main the chance to visit with Ernie and another opportunity to fly in a Robinson r forty four helicopter was well worth the extra few miles. I was going to be in the back seat of the are forty four this time as Ernie had a co-pilot that was fine with me as it would give me an opportunity to experience flying machines from a new perspective. At the beginning of the week. The weather looked like it was going to be fine. And we arranged to meet at the helicopter hangar. SF 'em it. Oh, eight hundred whether changes though, and by Friday night before the fly in we thought the event might be cancelled but chose to hold any decisions until early Saturday morning at morning at about oh, six forty five or any made the call the weather was just too unsettled to fly Ernie chose not to attend and I decided to drive up to Lymington anyway and see what was going on upon arrival at chapter headquarters. I was welcomed by name by Ron it's and the event organizer we had met before, but we'd been in touch via Email. He must have recognized me from the Sperling photos posted in show notes on episode five sixteen in five nineteen we talked a bit about the choice to go on cancel the event the radar. Sure looked like the weather was going to clear, and you know, once you make a logical decision based on the facts at hand, you can't second guess. It yourself due to outcomes Ron made the right call on the fly in and soda dirty. Although the fly in wasn't canceled. It was a cold grey day with a ceiling of around four thousand feet about half a dozen planes, flew in bunk. Chase was among those at did. He's one of the co founders of EA chapter one forty one. And we spoke with him on episode five nineteen bunk flew his beautiful yellow carbon cub to the event he certainly has aviation in his blood. He see bunk lives on the other side of the field from the chapter hangar and keeps his cub hanging by his house. He said he wasn't going to come to the flying in on the ground. So we got in his plane on one side of the airport took off flew the pattern landed taxi, the one forty one chapter headquarters and shut down. Now, that's the spirit and that spirit pervaded the entire event. You may remember my interview with Tim bickford who fully restored a gorgeous nineteen twenty eight travel air four thousand. He was there too. But kept his open cockpit. Biplane in the hangar. Just across from chapter headquarters the travel air looks said though, you could see she longed for the sky. I liked drizzle started around. Oh nine hundred or so and the poker on for later in the morning was cancelled it was a bit disappointing. But it wasn't sad at all you see even with the rain and cold. There was a warm camaraderie. Among all attendees. It was still a great breakfast with coffee, eggs, pancakes, sausage. And of course, all the wonderful hanger talk that goes along with any flying topics included emotional support. Squirrels local flying clubs and a newly purchased Cessna. One eighty thanks to launch pad hill and max t I was even able to hold my own when the conversation turned to a DSP both in-n-out on a personal level. I made some new friends and they go flying with them sometime soon and there's now an airplane each refrigerator magnet on the chapter fridge. So while cold and rainy is not the best weather in which to hold the fly in. You know, what it's not a bad time for one. Either. Still I'm already looking forward to the next big EA chapter one forty one flying that'll be at the Sperling farm grass strip and capable Lisbeth Maine in July twenty nineteen if you're going to be in and around southern Maine around that time, Mark your calendars for best deal day, that's fourteen July for those who aren't sure I hope to see you then for the airplane geeks here in Portland. Maine. This is your main man mica. Hey, mike. Boy, you gotta love someone who takes off from an airport flies a pattern lands at the same airport goes to the event at the airport. I think that's just really cool. Yeah. And of course, I always hear anytime somebody talks about emotional support animal. That's a squirrel. I think. Yes. But it's a flying, squirrel. So, you know. It should be permitted. Now. I'm kidding. You. Don't want to rodents on airplanes. Yeah. Mike mentioned refrigerator, magnets. I I actually have a few airplane. Geeks refrige-, magnets, they're they're small. They're about like business card size, magnets. So I may regret this. But if you'd like one write us at the geeks and airplane, geeks dot com. Send your send your mailing address. And you know, while supplies last as they say try to get some out. They may regret I may regret offering that up. But but we'll do that. Okay. That's it for this episode of the airplane. Geeks podcast. If you want to contact us by Email that's the geeks at airplane. Geeks dot com, of course, we have shown notes for every episode at airplane. Geeks dot com. Those for this specific episode you can get to directly by visiting airplane. Geeks dot com slash five to five and let's tell everybody where they can find us online in max trescott, we'll start with you. You can find me on Twitter at aviation. Newstalk you can find me on Facebook has mex- Truscott. And of course, the easiest way to find me. Just go to aviation news talk dot com and click on contact at the top of the page in David vendor of you can find me looking for jobs on the internet. But besides that you can of course, find me on Twitter on Instagram or on that show on Friday mornings with that guy. I love max flight. And of course, you can always check in our slack listener team by sending us a request to the geeks at airplane. Geeks dot com, and we'll be happy to send you an invite to enjoy the conversation with all of our other geek listeners at hang out in our slack team. All right, and you can find me on Twitter. It max flight look for me on linked in his David says at the UNLV digest dot com. And also with Mary Kirby at Peck's podcast dot com. Her out tros by Bruno Massoni, you can find more of his work at Bruno Masan dot com. So please join us again next week as we talk EV Asian on the airplane gigs podcast by rybody, you blew Siva. Thanks for listening.
Airplane Geeks Podcast
Aired 4 months ago 96:52
522 Aviation is Your Future at ERAU
This is the airplane geeks, podcast, hurry to educate inform you explore and expand your passion for aviation and entertain you a little along the way. This episode we talk with Dr petty Clark, a program chair at Embry, riddle, air nautical university worldwide about the upcoming aviation is your future course offered free online for youngsters, aged eight through twelve. Petty also tells us about airport and aviation sustainability. In the news, we look at the latest FAA reauthorization Bill eight, ten engine maintenance as well as new wings for the eight ten forgetting to pressurize the cabin misspelling your airline name, falsifying FAA medical records in beards and oxygen masks, and we also have a mini airplane of the week, the x. p. two twin Mustang as well as some interviews from this year's dark fest, including one very special guest. This episode is again brought to you by the out. Stewart air show coming up November two through four twenty eighteen in Stuart Florida. The winner of the aviation trivia contest has been announced. He and remember used the geeks podcast promo code for a discount on tickets. Find more at Stewart, air show dot com. Welcome to the airplane geeks podcast. This is episode five hundred twenty two of the show where we talk, EDA Asian. I'm max flight in joining me is I David Vanderhoek our aviation historian David, hey, max, sorry, I missed last week is, but sometimes the office takes preference over reality. So I apologize to our listeners for not being here, but you have to do you have to do to pay the bills. So you can podcast because the economies of this is not all that great. That's okay. We understand. We'll just make you work twice as twice as hard. This episode that's all get. You caught up. Also with us is max trescott. He's host of aviation news, talk podcast. He's the two thousand eight CFI the year, and he's an expert on learning to fly or purchase a series aircraft. He max. As west. How are you? I'm awesome back for home here. Two weeks in a row. It's really nice to be back home for a change. Our guest. This episode is Dr Patty Clark. She's program chair the MSN aviation and aerospace, sustainability at the college of 'aeronautics over at Embry, riddle, air nautical university worldwide. She's also editor in chief of international journal of aviation management. Patty holds a bachelor of science in professional aeronautics as well as a master of air nautical science with specializations in management and safety from Embry riddle. She also holds doctor of philosophy in business administration with a specialization in air nautical science management from north central university. That's in Prescott valley Arizona. How patties aviation career started with active military service in nineteen seventy seven is an aircraft jet engine mechanic. She followed that career path through several United States, Air Force, reserve and guard assignments. After leaving military service, Patty continued to work with the US air forces an aircraft and engine air force engineering technical services specialist petty went on to earn her graduate degree. Ultimately her doctorate. She worked on DOD environmental and safety projects and held several director positions at Embry riddle along the way. Patty was named the executive director in airport manager for the Valdosta regional airport in Georgia. In two thousand thirteen Patty accepted a fulltime faculty position in the Embry riddle college of air Nautilus. Patty, welcome to the airplane geeks podcast. Thank you max. It's a pleasure to be here and thank you for having me on the program. We're really looking forward to it. Patty is has got some interesting things you may recall that we mentioned. I think last episode and upcoming program an online program for youngsters to introduce them. To aviation and Patty, you're one of the what two instructors in that course while I'm one of the to lead instructors and Linda Weiland as the other one, we were kind of the ones that developed it, but there several other instructors in involved in it in it's it's actually technically called a moot on massive open online course. Who's a fascinating concept. We're gonna we're gonna dive really deep into that coming up. We're also I'm also very excited to talk to Patti about jet engine maintenance, and she knows a lot about that from her air force days, particularly on the a ten, but all that's coming up. I, we've got some aviation news from the past week, so I'll ask is everybody ready? Ready? Ready from the west. I item comes from the Washington Post, the FAA reauthorization doesn't address airline fees but contain some winds for consumers. Yes, folks. It's time to take yet. Another look at reauthorization for the FAA funding runs out in. I think less than a week as we record the September thirtieth. So max trescott, what are we learning about some of the things that are in this reauthorization Bill, Alex tech reauthorization for one thousand dollars. It does feel like a game show almost. I think folks probably know that every five years the FAA needs reauthorization Bill from congress. And unfortunately, congress for many years doesn't succeed in getting the Bill written in time. So then they will do temporary extensions of three months and six months and so on, which have been systematically called kicking the can down the road meaning they're not dealing with it now, but they will eventually get to it. I really thought that that's what was going to happen again here there extension runs out here on September. Thirtieth just a few days away. And yet over the weekend, the congress released a joint Bill that came out of conference committee, and I believe there's a vote scheduled for on Wednesday. So I'm really shocked given how many other things going on in Washington right now. But this Bill is twelve hundred pages. And so of course, I sat and read the whole thing. Just came out so haven't had a chance to do that. But there are lots of things that are in it and things that are not in it. Probably the the biggest thing. The thing I see in most of the news headlines is that the transportation department originally had apparently proposed that they would be able to decide whether the four point six billion fees at airlines, collect year for baggage, changes of tickets, seat, assignments, all that they could determine whether those were unreasonable. Well, guess what they can't. So that did not that got cut from the Bill, which means the airlines will probably have another five years to make billions on all these silly little fuse that we all get used to, but they did put a whole lot of other things into the Bill. So some big, some small, for example, this was interesting. They would require airlines to row refund fees to passengers for things they don't receive while that's kind of basic who would have thought that would create an aviation consumer advocate. This one I love would allow flight attendants a ten hour, respiratory between flights were than eight hours from the time. They're like touchdown until their next takeoff Representative facia from Oregon said, mostly attendants were lucky that five hours and that's totally true. I was talking with a career gently when I was flying and they were pointing about the short night that they were going to have this whole eight hours from the time you walk off to the plane till the time you walk on the plane. That really probably boils down to, you know, five hours of sleep for for people. So that's a really good move. And interestingly, this one kind of surprise me, they have included a provision for a seat pitch. So they want the FAA to take a look at regulating seat size dimensions, something that the FAA had previously said, nah, that's that's not our job. And congress appears poised to tell them, yes, that is your job. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. In I had an Email come through here this morning kinda shows everybody's weighing in on this, which was how I knew that the Bill had been, you know, had finally come out of committee. It's from the academy of model, onyx, and it says, do you remember his contact congress today? Tell them to vote no on f. a. a. reauthorization act. And they said that model aviation hobbyists have been flying safely in the skies since even before the FAA was created. This Bill will deal a devastating blow to our hobby, and they go on to say that the Bill puts the model aviation community under the third of the FAA which means agency candidate time impose a digital regulations. In addition, the Bill specifically imposes for hundred foot altitude limit on model aircraft which by the way that that limit, I think has been applied to drones in the past, but it doesn't fly apply. Folks have been flying model airplanes under a community based organization such as the the AMA. So for exam. Apple, I'm allowed to fly my glider what I'm flying the AMA field higher than four hundred feet. I don't usually do that, but apparently the organizations concerned that there may be more constraints placed on mile aircraft. Some of the provisions in here are I think directly related to some of the dramatic incidents that have occurred and been reported widely. So for example, this Bill would prohibit passengers who have already boarded the plane from being bumped. We've seen the, you know, the infamous case of the the guy being dragged out. There are prohibitions against vaping on board. You can't put live animals in the overhead bin to there was of course the dog that suffocated the as a result of that some other under interesting things passengers must be allowed to check strollers when flying with a small child, paraded passengers can board ahead of others. There's just a wide variety of things in here. One particular interest is that the reauthorization Bill woods. 'cause the FAA to prepare. There for a return to supersonic air travel, and in fact create an office of space ports, so, but the the seat space issue that that's another thing that you know you've. We've talked about a number of times that with ranking space with and seat pitch. Customers are getting so frustrated with that that congress is reacting to that. But I mean, Patty, kind of something that you would normally expect to see if enough of the consumer interest is upset about a particular practice that congress is going to tend to respond to that elapse -solutely and I'm actually kinda glad. I mean, I think we've probably all are glad to cut to hear that that they are kind of pushing the FAA to look at the seat pitch because as consumers in the interesting max brought up not being able to take a passenger off the air. Plane. Once they're boarded, you know, this overbooking issues in how they handle are actually quite a problem, but seat pitch. I mean me thinking about it, you cram so many people in little tubes, you know, on top of each other in load capacities, eighty ninety percent. Well, guess what? You're going to have problems. So I think they're really does need to be something done with the seats pitch issues. How about the. Venables on planes give the fact here. I know it figures on. Sorry. Dogs and yes, but dogs. That they should not be in overhead bins. Have no idea what people would be thinking to do that. I mean, you know, I've seen plenty of Fluffy's in whatever on the point that they usually put him under the seat, but that's that that should be regulated that they have to be of certain size in only fit under the seat. I can't believe people would do that. But then again, you know, people do a lot of things. I don't know. Anything in here that is of particular interest to you that you've seen so far from this Bill? Given our other show, I mean it the authorization Bill has a big affect on what we talk about on our Fridays, which is you a visa and drone authorisation and registration of UNLV's. And this is where maxes Email from the American Academy of model. 'aeronautics comes in is there is a urinating for every aircraft that's flying international airspace to be registered and to follow the regulations set up by the FAA. And that includes model aircraft now because and the drone operators professional drone operators are if they're going to be flying in zero to four hundred space and. We're going to be registered. They feel like the models will also need to be registered. So that will be a real challenge going forward to see what that balance will be because it the the drone operators are the ones actually insisting on there being registration, not the not the models that aspect of the drone reauthorization and the private program that we talk about a lot, which is the FAA working with private organizations to come up with regulations and letting letting the business world determine what they want to study and and the FAA taking a back seat to letting them come up with what they think of the regulations in the FAA sort of agreeing with it. So. I also noticed that there isn't a lot of talk about air traffic control. What do you think maxes? I noticed that the that seemed to be a hushed aspect of this, which is the privatization of ATC. Yeah, and I think they may have figured they wouldn't be able to get the Bill signed if they do that since that's such a divisive issue, but did some searching here because in the articles we've listed here, one of my pet topics was not listed there. One of which is guess what they're proposing to make a violation of federal law to make mobile phone calls while in flight which I think is great. And the other one, this cramped, my style a little bit choir. The FAA to establish reasonable measures to ensure people aren't pretending they're pets are service animals. So I'm worried about my service giraffe. You know the time line with her. Yeah, yeah. You know, you need the pony up on that story max. Okay. We need to quit horsing around there. You go. All right. Well, I think at twelve hundred pages, there's probably a lot more in there and maybe things aren't in there that will discover over the next few days maybe over the next few weeks or months. They think these things tend to be not completely understood in their entirety when they get past sometimes. So. So we'll see, but it should be a fun ride. Well, let's move on in. We have a story. This is from the air force, moody, eight, ten engine maintainers. Make history. How petty is going to help understand what's going on here, but the moody air force base in Georgia has a Chievo this readiness level of General, Electric t.f thirty four engine so's the engine's power the the tens, and it seems that all t.f thirty four engines in the fleet are repaired to serviceable status. And I guess this is a a significant accomplishment to have them all at that serviceable. Status petty. Can you? Can you kind of tell us a little bit about what this means? Midi air force base, which happens actually to be next door to me here they have what's called a consolidated engine repair facility, which actually repairs engines for several organizations and across the fleet. But what they talked about was, I think they actually have a two hundred eighty percent spare war ready engine or were ready material right now, the only were head to have five, but it's some some way they have fourteen spares engines, meaning they have no backlog of work or that all these engines are repaired. It is quite a feat having worked on these engines for quite a while that they have that many actually ready in serviceable. Meaning there's a lot of mechanics twiddling their thumbs right now. I guess. Yeah, I guess in some ways that's good. That means that all of the l. the engines are ready to be used, how the t.f thirty four is interesting engine. The the commercial version of that engine is the CF thirty four which actually powers number of aircraft including the Bardia challengers CR Jay's the emir e one nineties and one ninety five's and also the Chinese komax the a RJ Twenty-one and it's really well known as a pretty reliable engine in its thrust class. I don't know Patty, do you know? Is there much of a difference between the commercial version and the in the military version of that engine? Well, there's not a, you know, as far as the core of the engine, it's pretty much you know, this is nineteen sixties technology actually in the core of the. Engine there, but the commercial versions do have more thrust. That was always an historically, I'm sure it's still a problem today. The thrust of the Tia thirty four was was always lower than of course those fighter pilots wanted. But you know, I think the commercial versions do have several thousand more pounds thrust than eastern in with time. They, of course, have modernized decision, and it has a lot of, you know, they've redone the hot sections. Compressors have had some upgrades in. I'm just going to throw a tidbit out there about the tea of thirty four from the engine from the air force per perspective. It was the very first engine in all the engines within the air force inventory that we started doing any kind of parts tracking and any kind of engine monitoring. It was kinda Guinea pig for a lot of things. We learned a lot. We scratched our head a lot. And we actually, as I said, we've learned an awful lot that has contributed to that continuous improvement on that engine does the maybe you don't know at this point, does the moody air force base there? I mean, do they do overhauls repairs of just a t.f thirty four engines or do they kind of they don't. That's the over only engine. They actually do this and the old term leaves that he is with the thirty four, what's tearing it down the bug dust, and then you start back cover. And really, that's that's quite a. But for the most part in a nominally within the air force to do it at what we call the organizational or field level, the t.f thirty four was one of the few engines that was ever the maintenance was ever done that way. Usually the older engines went back to the DEP, oh, per se to be reworked, or they were done in a modular concept where you changed out the compressor module or the hot. Section lodge will, but it wasn't. I mean, this is an engine that they start tearing it down and you go all the way down breaking cases apart and putting them back together. So the only other engine say, well, they have the helicopters. They've got eight sixties and got one thirties out there, but those are pretty much just on condition cutting abatements that is done on that they do on those those engines. I see. I see. Now the ten is in other news is as well. We see that the Senate David has approved some funding for repairs. This is funding for, I guess, wing upgrades for the eight ten. Did we talk about this once? I think maybe we did. We've been talking about winging re winging eight tenths for a while. Now. They purchased like twenty six new wings couple years ago, and it's sixty five million dollars for the wings. The weakest structural point on the ten is the wing because that's where all of the ordinances carry. They needed to be rewind and because of the age of the aircraft you're talking about the newest aircraft are nineteen eighty block. It's an upgrade on a fund and it's proving that we're going to have a tens around till the end of time, even though they should have gone out the window a couple of years ago, but that's just me, yeah. All right. Saying it isn't so. And I'm just kind of at just clarify David. I think they are actually, they procured or they're actually as hundred sets of wings that are the last time I knew they were sitting at Warner Robins in the sixty. Five million will help them, of course, bring them in the depth. Oh, replaced those wings in it is very true that after forty years of flying, those wings are tired. All right. Well, this was a Senate measure, and we understand that that goes to the house of representatives now and we'll see what what they do with it. There's a fair amount of support in congress. I think for the ten has been for for quite a while, there have been efforts to retire it, but it just doesn't ever seem to happen he. And of course there are two sides to that and our our listeners very passionate about the ten in many cases, and I, I mean, it's got a well-deserved reputation. So we'll see what the house does with that, but now we have, I don't know, maybe a couple of items from the what were they thinking section of the of the news max trescott airline passengers bleed from ears and nose after crew forgets to pressurized cabin. How can that be your? I think this comes under the category of hoops, some this person back for training. This is just me almost inexcusable air if it was pilot air. I mean, I suppose that there is a mechanical issue that could have occurred, but you think the crew would have noticed it before they got folks up so high that they had trouble breathing. But let's just back up a little bit. This happened in India just a few days ago and it was the second largest airline. They're called the Jet Airways. So not a, you know, two bit operation. They've got one hundred twenty three aircraft in service, two hundred and thirty on order fleets, mostly seven thirty sevens. They're based in Mumbai. And they had a flight recently that took off from Mumbai and as passengers you know, started to complain. Some of them had your pain. Some of them were bleeding from from their knows one of them says, you know bleeding from, you know, various ears and, and you know, all kinds of places pretty terrifying. People look at some of the videos that were shot inside the the plane here looks like the failed that plane failed depressurize and yet kind of suggested maybe the crew forgot to to do it. It's just such a a basic thing to do if you're flying jet. Airliner thinking about my training, I just finished it. We could go with the Cirrus jetpack in Knoxville and pretty clear on every checklist we turn on that bleeders switch. And the believe there, of course, comes from the engine just before the combustion section, high pressure hot air, they condition it, they send it into the cabin and that essentially becomes the the high pressure. You know cabinet. In this particular case, sounds like that switch may have been off in that basically use the outflow valve on the pressure vessel open, which means cabin camp pressurize. And so the high climb, the thinner the areas people have hard time breathing. It's really pretty an excusable. If this was truly pilot air, the plane that turned around a back to Mumbai landed. Medical help was given to thirty of the hundred sixty six passengers on board. So it's definitely as you said, max y, what were they thinking or more likely they were not thinking, yeah, there's some reports that when the oxygen masks dropped that at least some of them didn't have oxygen flowing through them the airline disputes that, but I'm sure they can determine that. If you know if that's an additional problem here that's very concerning, but the aircrew has been taken off active duty as you might suspect. This sounds like a process. I mean. He in order to forget to do things. That's why you have checklists, and you know that kind of approach. So if something that is always supposed to be done is not done, kind of suggests some sort of a process problem, but it makes me wonder if they were distracted as they were going through the checklist, or if what at one of the folks up front was daydreaming. I agree. This is something that's clearly on the checklist. I would imagine that both pilots use that checklist more than five hundred times. Maybe that's part of the problem I think, is humans. Once we do the same thing too many times it starts to feel a routine. We don't pay quite the attention that we need to pay to it. So yeah, this is really unfortunate that that it happened this way. Now we have another story from the same. What were they thinking department? This is something it's all over the mainstream media social media. We see photographs of a cafe, Pacific airplane, newly painted airplane in on the side of the fuselage. There. There is so large logo cafe Pacific, except a Pacific doesn't have an f.. Misspelling year. Airline name seems like that's a big goof. I this. This is another one that I, I'm really at a loss to understand how that could happen. And I want I want an answer to a question that I've asked hundreds of times already. Yeah, and that is, was it just the one side. Yeah, I don't know because they're, they're, we've only seen the picture of the one side and clearly it's the spacing issue because I mean, they knew they, they knew they were missing a letter because there's a bigger space between Cathay Pacific than they're normally is. So it was whoever was masking it left out the letter, but I still wanna know if it was it was done on the other shot on the left side besides the right side. Yeah, that would tell you something significant. Now I went and looked on YouTube for some videos of airliners being painted, and we'll put some links to these in the show notes because it it kind of gives you a together. They give you a good understanding of how the colors stripes the logos, and all that are painted onto the site of these things. One is actually it's a time lapse video of jet stars. I Boeing seventy seven Dreamliner so it's more than just a paint shop. But at the end of it shows the paint shop, and there's also nice video of is Yana airlines, a three eighty being painted. And you know, when you look at the process for, you know how this happens and the the, the templates, things are spray painted by hand essentially. So I mean, a lot of people have are going to see the, you know, the result of the paint job as it's happening, not the mention when it's completed and it just it just amazes me that no one looked up and said, hey, that's not right. I think the air was just standing in plain sight, and I think sometimes that's an easy way to high things. If you're just so used to seeing the same thing, you start to ignore it. And I bet there must have been a number of people that walked by him. Just kind of glance in the up that's our logo didn't look any any further to it. Still wonder this problem. Highly unlikely but could sophisticated publicity. Department has said, let's generate some social media buzz. Let's go ahead and paint one of our airlines wrong and see what kind of you know, viral, you know, passing of this we get along. I mean, that's pretty extreme, but that that was just kind of the back of my mind is one remote possibility do, do you know how many hours it takes the mask out those letters? It's a lot of time. So I, I mean, to do that kind of masking, even as a model or for me to airbrush would be several hours not dementia, and that's just on a small model airplane to do that masking and screw up that badly into half to basically take the paint down to the metal so they can reapply the new logo, the corrected logo. I don't think social media organization could justify that kind of cost. This is this is a costly. Screw up aiming compared to getting five or ten million views. It might be cheap. But five or ten million views of people who don't normally fly Cathay Pacific Airways. I question I've affirmed believer in social media, but like, okay, how many people are going to wanna get on your airplane if you can't even paint your own logo. Right. Exactly. I think that would be the the problem with this. If I can't trust the maintenance people, should I be trusting the pilots? All right. Another story this from the Atlanta Journal constitution, delta pilot, accused of lying about mental health issues to keep flying. This is this is not good at Delta Airlines pilot has been indicted on charges that he falsified FAA medical records that are necessary to obtain an airman medical certificate. This is not good. No, this is an outgrowth of a probably the Germanwings flight that occurred in two thousand fifteen where co-pilot who had mental health issues crashed the airplane committed suicide and kill everyone. As a result of that, the FAA and department of transportation have been looking at ways to cross match databases in the US defined people who might have mental health issues but are trying to obscure them. And so four people were indicted and a US district court here in San Francisco last month for them airline pilots at this particular one was highlighted in the Atlanta Journal constitution article because he flies for a delta which is based there. I did look up some of the names and one of the other gentlemen here in California flies for for south west. So these are folks that are, you know, fly for majors with good jobs who apparently lied on their medical applications. And of course, making a fraudulent statement on your medical application, or even for example, on I across when you're taking. Check, right. If you were to say that you have more hours than you actually have. That would be a fraudulent statement which could result in a federal crime. So in this particular case, what they determined was that all four of these people had been getting help from the department of veterans affairs, and then when they reported on their FAA medicals what these VA disability benefits were they made up something else. So for example, this was particular said that the pilot had some type of major depressive disorder, and yet he told the FAA that the treatment had been for new strain and that tonight is and I believe he was a a military formerly military pilot, I believe, which is why he would have been getting treatment through the the VA. So I think we've talked before about how in the past pilots who had alcoholic problems would try to hide that from the airlines and these days it's possible to get treatment and still keep your. Job. I suspect there's still a fear that have for mental health issues that pilots might not be able to keep their jobs if they reveal any types of, you know, treatments they may have had for for mental health. So unfortunately, it's people got caught perhaps in Iraq in between a rock and hard place if they felt that they couldn't disclose this information and still keep their jobs as it is, it looks like they will lose their jobs for not having disclose it information in. There's possibility of jail time, right? If they're convicted understand maximum sentence five years, five years and fine of two hundred fifty thousand dollars. It's interesting in this particular case, the pilot that worked for delta was released on a ten thousand dollar bond. So that's pretty low. I would kind of guess that he's not going to get anywhere close to the maximum penalty, but you know, that's that's a tough way to end a an airline career at the age of thirty nine with a possible felony on your record. All right. One last item is from avoir. Maybe David Lee happy about this one, David, you still have your beers, right? I do. Well, max trescott. Why is that an issue. Well, it depends whether or not David has been, you know, wearing oxygen mask when he's been flying planes. So David, have you been wearing oxygen masks? No. But if I was wearing noxious mask, I would be not be wearing a beard. Okay. Well, there is a study which apparently has just come out which apparently contradicts the long held belief that having a beard and wearing action mask are incompatible with each other. So some study was done recently and said, guess what? This is actually not a problem. So apparently airline pilots now, no longer have to worry about that. You know, when they're deciding whether to have a beard or not. Yeah, web describes this this study from the environmental medicine physiology unit at Simon Fraser university. That's in Vancouver, and I like this. It says delivery of oxygen was tested by putting three groups of bearded men stubble medium length and. Bushy do a chamber simulating depressurisation out dude. And yeah, I guess they found that having facial hair doesn't affect the oxygen flow, and I think they're often things that just get per perpetrated or perpetuated. Rather, you know, for years people, you know, classic one that I always here, so you can't operate an engine over square. In other words, the amount of pressure. Pardon me. The RPM can't be higher than the the benefit pressure. And yet that only place to radio engines which they stopped building about seventeen years ago. Some of these things just stick around for a long time and how many nautical people go scuba diving all the time where oxygen masks and happier. I don't see anybody say, well, you can't be a scuba dive because you because you have a beard and you're still using full face mask. So it does. You know it? It's one of those, I guess, old wives tales, and I think it's basically because the air force want people clean cut and I just realized I. Headed right. The originally I started to say, which is that people say that you can't operate over square, which will be having manifold pressure that's higher than the the RPM when in fact, you can actually have any combination that shows up in the peo- h. and use that. We're speaking with petty Clark. She's program chair, college, 'aeronautics, Embry riddle, aeronautical university, Patty again, thanks for coming on the airplane geeks podcast. Let's talk about this Mook. This massive open online course originate from the women in aviation international chapter Embry riddle, right, right. We started a chapter of lemon and aviation international chapter at worldwide. I guess we're in the door third year now and we actually were the very first virtual chapter because in worldwide, we're actually truthfully all over the world. So it's a, it's a virtual organization. We do have some people headquarters, but most of us are dispersed. So the the moot kind of came about as a way because we are all over the world. It is difficult for us to as group. Do a girls in aviation day, which is held every year in the fall this year on not over the thirteen to be able to do some kind of event for us as a group was difficult. So we came up with the idea since we teach online courses, we offer mooks on a regular basis. We thought about and came up with the idea to build a moot that was targeted or aimed at children. And of course girls, but this is open to children. Eight to twelve is our is our target group, but anybody actually can register each just a basic information course on parts of airplanes, names of things on the airplane. You know the forces on flight. I think we have a helicopter unit a helicopter module in them. We also have one on space as well. So it's just an introduction as a way to try to get the word out about aviation into young. Groups because we obviously are not are. We don't see. Suddenly research tells us that we're not attracting people in the numbers. We need to in aviation with the pilots or mechanics, or you know, dispatchers, air traffic, control whatever the case may be. You know, we're just not drawing enough people and and you know, speaking with younger groups in aviation, groups of whatever put we found was that people don't understand the industry, so therefore they don't talk to children about it. So this was just kind of our our way of kind of reaching out and hoping we can get more kids involved. We did run this glass Gier we've had. I think we had about four five hundred total last year. And I think the last time I looked, we were up over three hundred enrollments this time. Our goal is fifteen hundred. So were real. If we get there. What's the length of the course? Well, it's actually set up these modules which are, you know, they're self paced. We estimate it would take about six hours for a child work through it. There's some reading or some visuals n. h. one of the sections of the modules has an activity, they may build an airplane, whatever we, we give them the information to do it, or it might be a puzzle, but it's not more than about six hours, but the the courses open from October the through the twenty third. So students can register now. And then anytime after the they can take the course once they finish it up, they can't qualify. They can get a certificate for finishing the course. So it's it really is to the kids how long they wanna take to to finish it up in kinder- kits enroll themselves. Do they need a parent involved in that process? I'm glad you brought that up mex-. This was something as as a university, this. Kind of a a different path for us last year when we kind of went down this road of understanding when you're dealing with children in right police. Oh, is a mother? I truly respect this disappearance that we have laws that about children in being online in their privacy in the right privacy. So since it is aimed for children between eight and twelve, they have their supposed to be and should be enrolled by parent parents Email address. So there's not any opportunity for any kind of bad behavior were were biding by the laws. So it's it's pretty strict. And thankfully, the canvas people that we deliver the course from the platform, they were very savvy on what we needed to do and kinda made sure week we had all the TS crossed in the is dotted so to speak. And how did you arrive at the specific topics that are going to be covered in the course? What was that. Process? Well, that actually was a little bit probably more of the easier aspect because the women in avian Asian international, they used to actually have some activities that were aligned with girls scout day, which I think that's a March and some of these activities were actually included in there. So we specially like the parts in a the forces on flight four forces. But I think we came up with a helicopter in this space because we, you know, there's so much more than just flying airplane. We wanted to tell him about helicopters which are not normal in any case, but still fly and to understand that space has some opportunities as well. So it was actually, I guess I would say I was the project manager on this, but at brought together the group and said, what do you think? Here's some ideas and I just set them off running. So that's kind of how we got there. It's kind of a tangential issue, but I'm curious the mooks of massive open online course. Is that just a concept or is there some bike official Mook site or something like that? Well, now it's a, it's actually a concept and I wanna say Harvard or Yale, where the very first ones to offer this concept for classes in this usually a free. You know, again, it's open. It's online ninety. Nine percent of him I think are more are free, but it's a concept and it's offered by different entities in different ways. You know, we use canvas is kind of our platform. We use for our classes and Emery riddle, but they also have a free version are public access version, polled canvas dot net, but there's other other platforms out there. So the move has kind of just a concept really in, of course, we'll have a Lincoln the show notes to the website where you can. Little bit more and in register in all that. And that'll be one of the that'll be on canvas their website, so don't don't be surprised by that. If you're trying to register your child, won't be an ember riddle web site where you register. Yes, I don't be branded with all of our information, but yes, it's canvas dot net. And just as we're talking about mooks. I will just say were actually running another one that is focused more on adults that will start in the vendor. It starts nineteen member runs through to December, and that's our small unmanned. You AS unmanned system, small AS systems moot kissed really for beginners looking the kind of understand if that's something they want to get into or understand more about the regulations there. And of course, we, we offer these mooks one to to share expertise. But certainly our hopes is that we attract people into our degree programs as well petty little bit about the the courses you teach. I guess there's a couple airport, sustainability, environmental management, guessed that. That's actually I poet call. One of our office of professional education p. e. course we, we have several certificates in program SU there. Unmanned systems is a huge piece of that one, but there's are typically program with this one that that management twenty seven hundred. That's an airport management certificate. I'm sure it has a has a different name than that, but there's about six courses in it for people. It's more of a professional development. This specific one talk more about the sustainability in the environmental management which somebody goes well, must lot of people say, well, sustainability is environment right while not really it is, but it isn't. But that course is, is geared toward people who are either in the airport industry or wanting to be are just learning. Again, just in handling their overall knowledge, I've taught that course several times. It's again, our one of our professional development courses. It's not one you would get credit for, I guess that's, that's the point. Are. You think airports are kind of stepping up to these types of issues, sustainability issues these days or making progress have a long way to go. Where do we stand right now with airports? I think it when you when you talk about airport since the stain ability, I often tell people that what I probably learned about sustainability. Initially, one was from parents, but then in the military of making things work without all the parts. But it was actually homed and perfected if that's the word from actually managing an airport in trying to answer all those needs with a limited budget. And so when we talk about sustainability, I think it's it comes down to every airport can make can make improvements and find ways to find efficiencies and improve processes immune to go back to that eight ten article that that talked about that continuous improvement. That's the whole really one of the underlying concepts of of sustainability is that you find way to keep him. Improving your processes and airports have have led a lot of ways. They've also lagged and some others. There's an old adage in the airport world that says, if you seen one airport, you've seen one airport and that's true because no tour like they don't have the same management system. They don't have the same issues from environmental to passengers to whatever the case may be. But I think there are some airports out there that are doing, I guess they're leading and providing examples for others. Dino seatac of course, probably. I think they're the first ones to develop what's called rather than a master master-plan. They're doing a sustainable airport, master plan, meaning that they're incorporating it into their planning aspect of how they will develop these projects from the stain -able perspective. And that's really what has to happen. It has to be frontloaded. So Seattle for San Francisco has led. In several areas. I think they're going to. They're looking to be our first carbon-neutral Boston, not so much in the south. Interestingly enough, we don't have any really wants to toe hold up that kind of the leaders. There Phoenix does a good job, but while but if you think about it, those are large airports that have the money to do these things. There are some smaller ones out there that are leading in areas, but I think as an industry aviator, we have, we have work to do, but all industries do, but I think it's the understanding piece that's gotta come first sustainability. You improve the environment by improving these processes in how you do things and how you make decisions. You know whether an understanding who your stakeholders are. Sometimes we forget to look outside the box and understand who's going to be affected by those decisions for the airports that are leading in this area. What is their motivation? Is it the moral imperative, or is there a. Economic imperative. Why are they taking action to become a more sustainable airport? I think it's all of those things. And if you think about a specially from Seattle have very progressive, very environmental in understanding sustainability and how they want to drive to better neighborhoods and better communities in better air and all those kind of thing. The communities have a lot to do with it because of of course, in the US sto- you know, ninety nine percent of our airports are still owned by the communities for the city's they reside in. So there's a lot of pressure from the communities. But I think you also have the leadership, you know is they have become more savvy and understanding that if you make better decisions on the front, and it's certainly going to be an economic impact later on, you're going to realize those officiency of pudding, say if you're replacing windows or building. A league designed building versus, you know, putting the minimal amount of money into it, or you know what kind of h. facs system are are put ever that you put in that those are decisions. If you make those now, you may caught the may cost a little more up front, but you're gonna realize the savings in the end. It's like changing to LED lighting on the runway. I couldn't believe the difference at the airport. When I managed poem, we out of desperation head to replace our runway lighting and we put LED the, you know, the savings was very substantial almost immediately that we could see, but it was more costly in the upfront. One topic relating to airports that we covered. I think it was a couple years ago now was the light pollution kind of issue his there been any progress on that front or airports, looking at the light that they sent up into the sky. You know, that's not something I've heard much about recently, so I don't know of a lot going on, you know, noise has kind of emerged again as as a problem because of again, we're, we've got more well. We don't really have more flights because they've cut back on some of these capacities. But we've changed routings you know, we're flying over places. We haven't before are certainly more concentrated routes. So the but the life pollution I haven't. Let's good point. I made you've made me curious. I haven't seen anything in a while, so I have to go look there. There's another course that you're teaching as well as that related to these issues. Well, that's actually part of the sustainability degree. The aviation in aerospace, sustainability degree which the first course we talked about is kind of a mini course that touches on some of these areas. But we have a whole degree program that's focused on aviation, aerospace organizations for that being airport, whether it be manufacturer, you know, part one of forty, five station OEM's or whatever the case may be that we all need to be thinking about, not just from how do we make more efficient engines in how they utilize fuel, or you know, the design, the next set of of wingtips and you know. You know, we find the weight saving, but the overall aspect that so from the designed to the end of it that kind of cradle cradle-to-cradle-concept that we are designing building, you know, flying and then retiring airplanes or parts or whatever the case may be with an eye to understanding what are we going to do with them in the end that it's not waste, and we use less hazardous hazardous material in making things safer procedures for people being equipment it, it's that holistic look at how can we be better what we do build great airplanes, but we can be better in these processes. We can take care of people better even down to paying better. This is all part of sustainability to create create sustainability. You've got to have three legs of the stool as we talk about, and that is economic leg, the environmental leg and the social leg. When. You can meet all those needs are find that sweet spot. Then you then you're sustainable. So we have, again, we have, you know, it's a twelve course program. This is our second year. I think we'll have our first graduate probably by December. We have some really good students have to say. I've been very impressed with were attracting the Boeing's Lockheed Martin Northrop. We have students from all over. I oughta those kind of organizations. So we're growing and innocent needed degree. It's more recognizable unfortunately, from a global perspective than here in the US. But I think we're, we're beginning to make inroads in those areas victory. Interesting. I think throughout my career, I think my observation has been that the design is more driven by. Lowering costs, lowering manufacturing costs, increasing performance of product, applying new manufacturing techniques, new materials to to achieve those things. But in this just might be because of my viewpoint being a little bit off to the side, I just didn't have a sense that there was a focus on what happens to this stuff later. What are the implications of all the carbon fiber structures that were that we're now seeing? Is that inpl- implication more environmentally friendly than aluminum or or less? So I have, I have no idea. Well, there there are, you know, with carbon fibers, we don't really know on some of those. We know that composites and fires and those kinds of things from smaller proportions in airplanes. I mean, even the ten has. Composite material on it that they don't react the same. Of course, as metals do you know we can recycle metals pretty easily composites, not so much. So what do you do with them when they're over with at this day in time, can recycle eighty ninety percent of an airplane by weight, but then there's a lot of things that are left when you talk about weight. I mean, what do you do with the interiors? You know, what do you do with those seats and those kind of things? How can we design better widgets of any sort. I mean, we've they've discovered. I think it was. I was in Belgium, you know, an interior that they're going back to using linen type material because it's a natural fiber in it's fire resistant to a certain extent too. So we're finding that sometimes it's not always innovation. Sometimes you need to look backwards a little bit to find the best solution. NHS. So really, sustainability is all about systems thinking in looking from beginning to end in any product or decision, even if you're just buying a new part, you may be forgetting a new bolt for an airplane. But if you have a choice of buying it from an overseas manufacturer for cheaper amount, but you don't know what those labor conditions are or how those people are paid, or if they're paid a living wage or you can buy it, you know, locally sourced regionally are even nationally and you can understand that supply chain, then that's a better decision. It's big, but it's not it's making its making logical in best decisions from beginning to end. Petty. You've really got me thinking about this now in ways that I did I haven't before well, good. That's the whole thing extra sky. What do you think? Oh, it sounds fantastic to me. I mean, it really makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it does. I say this degree is all about logic, really? Yeah. Well, in a way I guess most are in a sense, where can we find out more about the courses that we've been talking about more about Embry riddle, where can folks go to learn this now for the Mook? Of course you're going put us that. Yes, that late Inc for the degrees. Of course, if you just go to ER EU dot EDU, it'll pull up our homepage in. You can go to any of our three campuses, but we're in worldwide, and this is an MSN aviation in aerospace, sustainability. So it comes up pretty easily. And actually if he were type that in right now would probably bring the Meriva degree up as far. I know where the only one with that exact title and when we started the degree, the Rizzoli one other university that even taught a related degree pro and they were in the UK good. Now, maybe it's not fair to ask you to speak for all of them be real, but how is enrollment looking these days are, are we seeing more interest in the school is dropped off his the, the makeup of the of the students changing over time? Other trends that you see? Well, I think and again, you know, this is speaking from the perspective of a program ter I'm not the leadership, but I say the numbers and those kind of things we we see the overall picture what we're seeing strong enrollments. We had in probably two thousand thirteen fourteen. We did see some dips and and our enrollments, but we're really seeing a strong. Enrollments. I, I'm not sure. I wanna say we finished the year last year. You know, over eighty thousand enrollments that wasn't students that probably acquainted to injust in worldwide, probably around twenty three thousand students at any given time. And that's across three colleges. We have college of business college board science in college of 'aeronautics. But I think from the professional perspective, we are seeing students come back. You know, the the degree that I'm the program, tears aimed at that, that person mid level looking probably to move into a leadership program suburb. We're seeing strong results in there. We also are seeing younger students. There's a little bit of a change. I won't say a little bit. I think it's a lot of had this discussion with some brick and mortar, traditional student, our faculty members, excuse me, where they say that the online teaching is. Fad, but we're seeing and we offer still all modalities of teaching on ground in the classroom. We have a hybrid kind of eagle vision. We call it which it's video taught, but you would have a standard meeting every week and we have the the pure online. And I think today we're probably somewhere around ninety percent. The those class of all of our classes are taught online and we're seeing students who are younger coming in and where even kind of a kind of working to target that market into our worldwide online programs because maybe they can't afford to go to immer riddle campus and lived there, but they can live at home and take classes or they can start there and then they go finish their degree on a campus. But we're seeing just many more people find the convenience of being able to work an online course. You have a week. Eight don't have any demands of LA. How you have contribution dates, you need to contribute to the discussion, but they have a week to be able to do their work, and then they can still have families and they can still go to work and those kind of things. So we're really saying that we have such a electric and techno logical savvy population that that's truly spilling over very much into academia. It's probably I'm wondering, can I get a PHD online? Issur can. All right. So max, what would you get your if you did it online through memory. Well, that image riddle, dust still require that you have to come out for our program. You have a residency of like six weeks or something. What do you think max? What are you gonna go for? Well, I, I don't know. There's no PHD in retirement though. Aviation, but not retirement a hotel you? Hi. I'm thinking 'aeronautics engineering. I think that would be so cool. You know, as as an electrical engineer, it's like, oh, I'd like to know more about the 'aeronautics engineering. So signed me up Patty. Okay. Send us your information. We'll get you right in rolled that PHD as well. As well as long as I get to build an airplane as part of my final project. Oh, yes. That would be cool, right. All right. Well, hey, I idea for the the course that's coming up to we have been talking about which is titled aviation is your future. As I mentioned, we'll have a link to that in the show notes, but in addition, we'll we'll put in a redirect. So this might be easier to remember. So if if you go to airplane geeks dot com, slash aviation is your future. Just all one word, lower case. That'll that'll redirect you to that site where you can register for the course. So we'll give you that choice. There. Go to the show notes, airplane, geeks dot com. Slash five to two or go to airplane, geeks dot com. Slash aviation is your future fact. You can pause the podcast right now and shoot on over a great thing to do for your kids or if you know somebody that has some youngsters that might. Benefit from this kind of exposure to aviation, maybe you can suggest that to them. So really recommend it. This episode is brought to you by the Audi, Stewart air show to be held this November. Second through fourth in Stuart, Florida checkout Stewart, air show dot com to learn more in plan your Audi, Stewart, airshow experience. Now, as you'll recall airplane geeks teamed up with a steward airshow for a week of EV Asian trivia. Well, now the contest is completed in congratulations to the winner. Jamie McNally. Jamie has won tickets to the TD Bank dirty flight suit party. That's going to be held November second twenty eighteen at the Stewart air show how, again, learn more about the show at Stewart, air show dot com. Look for them also on Facebook in again, we're thrilled to be able to bring to you a special ticket offer to the air show. Use promo code geeks pied cast. When you check out to enjoy a special ten dollar ticket offer in that Stewart air airshow dot com. November two through four twenty eighteen at the Martin county airport with them field in Stuart, Florida. Patty, one thing that we want to do is you proposed. It's almost kind of a many airplane of the week, which is segment that we've done in the past not terribly recently, but I, you know something about an interesting Mustang that's being rebuilt not too far from you was David the jump into, but petty tell us about what's happening with this twin Mustang? Well, Tom Riley who is actually ever at the Douglas airport, which is probably about an hour and a half from where I live and actually was built as a military airfield years ago and has a great museum by the way a favor down there. But Tom Riley has been, I think he's been ten years in the making of restoring this x. p. eighty two twin months Tang and it's been about four, five years since I was up there, but it was just amazing. And I'll tell you that taking students. It's in and I was teaching a a, a safety, mechanical and structural factors course. So this was very relevant to them, but the students to actually go up there and see, here's an airplane in there remaking. Here's what a lightning whole looks like in in these older airplanes were making stringers and they were explaining and everybody was volunteer up there, and it was just amazing to see the work, the craftsmanship and the professionalism that went into this to this project. And as I read the article, I try to keep up with his blogs, but I'm been behind, but I guess they've actually got finished and he received his airworthiness certificate, gets the right the day before Oscat started, so they didn't get take it up there this time because they needed to fly fifteen hours, but I'm gonna go over there. I'm sure he's flying several different airplanes. Over there, but it was just just kind of fascinating really kind of see when I saw it. It was still in a lot of pieces on the ground. So it's come a long way. Gave it a little bit about the twin Mustang. What is this thing? Well, you take much Tang in. You glue another much Tang to it and you get a twin Mustang. Although that's probably what most people think it is. Actually, it's got very interesting history. Most people when they see a Mustang, they think of your typical p fifty one d with the bubble canopy and the kind of Mustang you see all the time and and when people say, fifty one, it's the image that comes to mind. There was a lot of other variants. One of the most important variants doesn't get a lot of notoriety was the p fifty one eight, which was eight, lightweight version of the p fifty one day. It was supposed to be a higher altitude interceptor. But from that came, the requirement of escort b twenty nine of very long range to Japan before we had the end of the war and what the. Crew North American did was they took the p fifty one eight and they built a new center wing section in combined to p fifty. One h is interesting enough. The originally the p fifty one. What what would become the p eighty? Two was powered by a Packard Rolls Royce Merlin engines. The right Merlin engine had to be geared because you would get counter rotating propellers on the aircraft and you would have a crew of two that could fly these long range missions to escort the b twenty nine besides the p fifty one age, they also got a fifty seven inch plug into the few slosh which was for larger fuel and internal radios, etcetera. Also the outer wings were reinforced so they could carry large air. Air drop tanks. So believe it or not. My co-host Mack said, is this actually a work of fiction, and I'm like, no, actually they built two hundred seventeen of them. Wow, they were the first aircraft in Korea to shoot down a Korean aircraft. They were primarily used as night fighters in Korea of the exercise gave the ability to carry the radars necessary. So one one cockpit held the pilot. The other cockpit held the radio operator, who would be the person operating the radar. So they could track the aircraft down and they did shoot. They were the first aircraft to shoot down a North Korean aircraft in the Korean war. They also were used in Alaska, and there's a very famous one which was a p fifty one b by the name of Betty Joe and Betty Jo flew nonstop. From Hawaii to New York in fourteen hours and it still is the it is the longest range. Longest distance still held today for a propeller driven fighter aircraft. Now, the world's record for the longest propeller-driven aircraft would be the rutan Voyager, which flu around the world, but the Benny, Joe is safe in sound. She went on to do some testing for NACE a, which eventually became NASA and then ended up at Wright. Patterson air force base. And I will provide a photograph of Betty Jo for the show notes to max. There is another f eighty two at the air force museum that was originally flown by that organization called the confederate air force. They, unfortunately, it was as a war bird in seventies and eventually. A major accident and the confederate air force wrote it off in sold it to another organization, and that organization was eventually sued by the air force. So the air force museum recovered that airframe restored it. And that f eighty two g is painted like a night fighter, and that's also on display as the air force museum. So there's three f eighty twos that Yar wear of. There's only one that will be flying or has flowed, and unfortunately wasn't able to get dodge kosh, but it is the prototype, the x. p. eighty two. What she'll discover is the the PD to slash f eighty two is in that timeframe where we changed designations from pursuit aircraft to fighter aircraft. So you see, Betty Jo is considered a PHD to be with the Rolls Royce Merlins. The other one is in. F eighty two g and believe it or not the air force decided that it didn't wanna spend the money on royalties to royals Rolls Royce. So the later versions of the f eighty two's head Allison engines, which were more powerful than the Rolls Royce engines and less expensive. 'cause we weren't Packard, wasn't having to pay royalties to royals Rolls Royce. So that's a little brief history of the p eighty two otherwise known as the twin Mustang. Wow, see what you started. Patty. Absolutely fascinating. Very cool. Very cool. Thanks, David, that's and so Tom Riley has a blog I think is Patty mentioned. We'll put a link to that in the show notes, and you can check out that as well. Now a little bit of what's up with the geeks. I will start with max trescott anything new aviation wise and your world? Well, we have a fatal accident at my home airport, fourth of September. So just a couple of weeks ago and it was the first one that had occurred since I believe twenty eleven about seventy years since we've had a a fatal. And I thought about it today because I was out flying with a student pilot in a Cirrus are twenty. And in many ways we were flying essentially the same profile that the Mooney pilot flew who died, which is really what made me think about it. But he was from out of the area. He was an angel flight, a pilot, bringing a couple people in for treatment at Stanford hospital. He had trouble spotting the airport, possibly because there was a scattered layer fog in the morning across the bay, and he missed his turn to final. And so the tower Gema you know, it turned back toward the final. So even when he was two, three miles away from the airport. He wasn't lined up. He was landing runway one, three, which we almost never use, say down sloping runway. It's it's got a higher dyke in front of it. So people end up a little bit high as they go across it. And he also had no headwind all to shorten his Atlantic distance. It was a direct cross win. We had firstly the same identical conditions today. And so it's kind of interesting with this student pilot. She did a really great job of handling, but there were definitely times when you know we had to apply a lot of breaks to be able to land in the twenty five hundred foot distance that we have on that runway. This particular pilot apparently bounced at least once maybe twice. I haven't seen the preliminary report yet, but those are the reports that I've heard from people who were there. And then he said that he was going to go around in that he has he'd come into fast and unfortunately, he apparently mishandled his his go around and crashed almost immediately afterwards in the pond. That's the. The the end of the runway. So for me, I think just kind of highlighted the importance for pilots to dente fight early anytime they have unstable approach, either high or they're a little bit fast or maybe they've got a high descent rate, maybe they're not lined up perfectly with the runway. And if you have any of those kind of conditions just go around, you know, do it, do it early, not every landing is meant to be. It's only gonna cost you five minutes to come back around and you know, in this case it would have saved the guy's life. So anyway, it was. He was a little moving to just think about being an almost exactly the same situation as gentlemen was a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, very sad. And he had a couple of angel flight passengers with him. Did he? They were in the rear seats. He had offered for one of them to to sit up front. They declined, and that's what saved their lives. Because the front of the airplane was essentially destroyed and they were able to get out of the back with some minor injuries. Okay. Thanks for that. All right. As we mentioned last week, Brian attended the dork fest, twenty eighteen event at LAX. He met a few listeners past guests. He says, now, Brian central hung, some recordings just minutes before we started recording the show. So we're going to listen to these, but we have no idea what Brian or anybody else's going to say. So hopefully they won't get us into trouble. But Brian does start off with the kind of an introduction to the event, I guess. So let's listen to Brian. Hi maxim, fellow co-hosts. I was fortunate enough this weekend to be able to participate in dork fest, two thousand eighteen. If you're unfamiliar with Doric fest, it's plane spotting, event put on by Brett Schneider of cranky, flier cranky cuts. Here's check out the show nuts for more information on the event. And if you have a chance to attend next year, please do. So it was an awful lot of fun with my recorder in hand. I was able to conduct a few interviews apologies in advance for the poor audio quality as we were standing under one of the runways at LAX, and it was very windy for recording purposes for longtime listener. So the show there is a very special recording. I was able to capture as soon as you hear the voice, you will know who I'm talking with, and it wasn't Dan Webb, although he was there and we did get a chance to talk, but he wouldn't allow me to record his voice to two potential issues with his current employer. But it was really great catching up with Dan max. I was also able to ask about his mustache. And he was clean shaven, but he said it will return again for mauve ember. I hope you'll enjoy listening to these recordings as much as I enjoyed making them for you. Without further ado here, few of the interviews I conducted a dork fest, twenty eighteen and I'm sure the rest will air on next week show. Fly safely. You're contributing editor and sometimes co host Brian. Wow, Dan, I would love to run into Dan. Okay. So let's listen to the first interview. Hi, Brian, I'm with was her Matt and Matt, you've to special guys with you here today? Checking out airplanes my dental twins, almost three years old Cameron Devon, and they are probably youngest dorks geeks here yet. Right now seems like it. So there's probably fifty seventy five people here just hanging out into note in the park. Yeah, I fair Sussman just watching planes. So how have you been listening to the show? I just kind of stumbled upon this whole group probably six months ago. Okay. I'm pretty heavy travel for work and pleasure myself and I've done, you know, the bigger Facebook ones like the points guy lounge and things of that nature. But as I kind of gravitate and meet other like minded people, they turned me onto guys like you and dorkcast and everything else. So that's why we're here and the wife gets two and a half hour break. Awesome. You're talking earlier you travel for work? Yeah. We have a delta jet taking off, right? And that's the breast cancer jet looks like. You get to spend a fair amount of your time when the United as well. Right, correct. Yeah. I'm based here in LA and United pretty much anywhere. I need to go with the exception of Portland, Oregon, there's no direct which makes me angry but stopping in San Francisco's kind of grind. But yeah, I do six to eight to ten trans cons year, my corporate office in New York, and then I travel everything west of Denver and Dallas to Seattle and back. And then a couple international flights here. Familiar with getting Portland tonight chose to go through Seattle to get there. A few more miles doing it through San Francisco. I've had to bite the bullet a few times and and be a quote, unquote, normal traveler, and. It happens. Yeah, sides of people here and looks like some free swag. Airplanes. You know, I think the boys are going to have an in and out shake, we'll get the wife approved shakes and fries. That way she won't have to make lunch when I get home. When I think you know, these kids are pretty pretty pumped every time to see a plane fly over our house because we're in kind of a LAX traffic pattern down in the south bay. So they're actually being quite good. You can probably tell everyone that they're not being rambunctious at all. They're just kind of happy as can be this at the planes. That was the idea. There's another one going over Henry. Thank you so much again, nice meeting you having me. Oh, great. Great. Great. Thanks, Matt. Thanks for being a listener. All right. Let's see what Brian's got for us. Next. I'm here with in from are Tony, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me or the possibly one of our listeners. So it isn't familiar with flavor at our twenty four. Can you give a description of what it is at where people can find? Absolutely. So we're alive tracking service. We take the information that comes out of the aircraft had combined with all sorts of scheduling databases and things like that to create a moving map of aircraft around the world. So we're, we're following closely today at LAX. We were online Klay twenty four dot com. Or we've got an app or Android app that you can download for free, and then we offer subscription as did you know upgrade your experience to to give you more. Africanus, looking for? Yeah, they probably should have been. A better interviewer research. I think someone from Renner twenty four before I just can't from member. We'll see. We've been here before exact right, agree talking with you. Use them enjoy the service. For talking with us. Well, thanks for having me. Cool. All right. Next we have well, I don't know why we have. Let's give it a listen. I'm here with Nick Benson of jet tip. Welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks for having me what is to believe it or not. I'm familiar with the service running. Oh, that's completely find. Jet tip is a smart flayed alert service. It's a run from the perspective of of an aviation enthusiast. So when an interesting aircraft has come into your airport via to an unusual, the version. And equipment substitution. A retro jet, anything like that? If it's unusual and coming to your airport, we'll send you a texture Email about it. Yeah, we've got into rival departure board also that has filters for an f. from an antique perspective. So if you just wanna see all of the heavies that are coming to your airport, all international airlines, different filters for that. If you just wanna see the outlier flights, it's got to filter for that too. And you do commercial only or. It's mostly commercial stuff. It's going to be the same things that are available on any of the other flight wear flight radar twenty four. We're abiding by the same list of the same block list that they are. Okay. So it's a trackable flight. Obviously, military operations, you'll have to go to eighty SP exchange or something for some of that stuff. But as far as commercial stuff, airliner movements. Yeah, there's nothing else like it took been around been around for about a year. Okay. Yeah. So it's really. Ten years? Yeah, it's still relatively new. So yeah, it's available at all major airports in the United States and Canada. We've got something over. Beautiful. Japan. Dreamliner just flew over that was coming to your airport, and they usually didn't. You'd get a text or Email about it. It's pretty cool to good service. It's a, it's exactly what I wished I had a few years ago when I started getting into f- geeky seriously, and I just kind of built what I wanted now anyone can get a subscription to it so, and it can be found that yet jet tip dot net. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you so much. Hurry jet, Kip dot net, Heddon heard of that before going to have to check that out. All right. Here's one more from Brian. I have come across someone truly special, and I'm sure longtime listeners of the show will recognize the voice immediately. Courtney, welcome to the airplane geeked. Courtney, welcome to the airplane, geeks, podcasts at it. It's always been that difficult to say fact. That's why we chose it was a, it was a a practical joke that kept trying to play on max, but he kept saying crackly. So the name just kinda stuck. I was actually planning on being then Jeff cantor you can't. That's the whole, the old joy, airplane, Keith casts is we used to take max been doing those, but those are the best part. We used to wait for the outtakes, but but yeah, I just saw, you know, episode, five hundred. What are we at now? Five tally fifteen? No, I I can't believe it and we were having this conversation before. I mean as much as those around of those around the airplane geeks podcast has have kind of been able to bask in the glory. Max has been doing this for ten years. Right? Like you said it's your it was your idea, airplane podcast. Not really. It was my dear to have Maxwell. The work. And he did, and he still continues to do any wheel doesn't so good. You figured it out out how to do the work. Well, I showed up much much later and yes, I said before the show that I'm truly amazed over how much work does when we basically said and continued continually amazed by how much he he does. Well, now you just need to move in the YouTube and then your Netflix show then real world. There you go. This is your first time here Thorpe fist kit is I've been meaning become just never the schedules never align. You know, you travel so much that it's tough on a weekend to to either be in the place you need to be. But the convention starts tomorrow in Long Beach. So I was able to to tie this onto that and listen to airplanes fly overhead and smell the smell the burning rubber from from touchdown. The winds just right. So it's it's great. This is what we do. Right, pretty fun. This is the heroine for us. Aviation addicts. So when you started the show ten years ago, did you really think it'd be continuing for ten plus years? No, God, no. No. Why who in their right mind would do that for ten years man. He's not in. No, I I mean, I think that's kind of the beauty of it, and I think that's why max has been so successful with it because it was never a plan to there was never long-term plant, you know, that's that's the beauty of it in that, you know, we wanted to talk airplanes. We wanted to talk about things that were going on. And so once a week we got together and then the next week we figured, let's get together and talk again and then ten years later here, right? Max is still doing it. So I mean, that's that's a big reason. I think. No, that the rubber I thought I thought a car going down the highway had a like a belt brave yourself, and they're like near played lands. I smell that like the winds are just right. For this, don't have smell cast every once in a while. We'll catch a good whiff of burning rubber. Definitely a another aviation smell since Asian, but there are probably what hundred hundred fifty. I guess most of them are are with us, but yeah, honored fifty people hundred people. Yeah, definitely. I always expected. There's a great turnout. So getting back to the show is this wondering there've been a bunch of co set of come gone over the years? What it? What do you think of how the show is all from what you imacs originally started? It's all one that the success, the version of how things move around. You know, it's, it's all one thing and that those who have the time, the ability are willing to put in the work in and add value to the conversations. Just do rob Mark and Dan Webb or kind of ones that I kind of pass it off to force max just kinda built just great people all around. Them through the years. I don't know. I mean, this is exactly what it was supposed to be. I guess never. There was never. There's never even one vision, you know, although. God bless max for for putting up with it for putting up with all of us for for the ten years. But of course you're crushing offloaded dreams right now by saying that there was no grand vision because here we are thinking that there was this master plan to rule the aviation podcast universe. You just saying to just happened? Yeah. If if there was a grand vision, world domination would've been about four years ago. Yeah, we wouldn't have settled for anything less. All right. Let's been so great meeting you and having this little chat. We're going to have to have you on as a as a guess I need to. I'm sorry, I missed the five hundred. I've been duly chastised by several people. I, I should have been there and I blew it. So I apologize to max for that and the rest of the group. But I just I'm tickled pink that you guys, I still confused, but tickled pink that you guys are still going and there's an active community. That's where it was all about. I think it's fantastic. Yeah. And the other podcasts, are those been spawned salt of this as well? That's right. There's only least half a dozen podcasts that I mean, if if the ultimate goal is ruled domination, you know, inspiring others to dominate their own worlds. That's that wasn't even conceived up. Right? So that's that's absolutely fantastic. Maybe maybe a little bit of legacy that that max will be able to leave behind. You know, sixty years from now finally hangs up with. With that United seven thirty seven flying overhead gonna draw this segment interview to close Courtney. Thank you so much. Thanks, thanks. So your shirt. What? How Courtney, you know, corden I have actually never met, but for those of you who are newer listeners back in two thousand eight received an Email from some guy. I didn't know name Courtney said this domain name called airplane gigs wanna make a podcast, and he's absolutely right. There was never any never any plan we, we started off and when we reached our third episode, we said, well, you know what? Maybe this will actually work and kept going from there. So I'm really happy that Brian was able to meet Courtney hope heaven opportunity someday then yeah, we gotta get Courtney back on the show. Love to do that. David, would you think about, you know, listening to according to hear his voice? Yeah, it's funny because I lay ever got to do to episodes with them, you know, and and. He, he left the show with Dan and rob coming on just as I the day I did my first segment that I sent in, you know it was it's really kind of funny that you know we were like two ships passed in the night. I've been on the show with them because we he's been on anniversary shows. We never actually got to do a real show together. Well, maybe we'll change that someday. So with that though, I think we're going to wrap this one up. I guess this episode was docu Patty Clark program chair, the college of 'aeronautics Embry riddle, university worldwide petty. Thanks so much for coming on the show talking to us about what about the ten. That's always cool. Is I told you earlier? The ten is my my wife's favorite airplane. We somehow I've got a dig out the photo from the Pima Aaron Space Museum where she's got her arms. Lovingly wrapped around the the Gatling gun in the front of eight, ten. What she has great taste? Yes, yes. Well, I'd like to think so anyway. So again, tell us where we can find every riddle online. And as as I mentioned, you'll be able to go to airplane, geeks dot com. Slash aviation is your future and Patty, how about Embry riddle? Just in general, it said pretty easy. Just e. r. a you dot eighty. You will bring you to our our, I guess that's our university site. And then you can see the three campuses and our degree programs there tastic. Thanks again, Patty, you can find us at airplane, geeks dot com. If you wanna send us an Email, that's the geeks that airplane geeks stuck com. If you visit the website, you'll find the show notes for each and every episode. If you wanna go straight to the show notes for this episode. Well, that's at airplane. Gates dot com. Slash five to two. Now it's tell people where they can find us online in David Vanderhoek. Where do we find more of you? Well, you can find me on our various social media platforms and our slack listener team. If you wanna join our slack listener team center city mail to the geeks at airplane, geeks dot com, and you can join our high profile listeners in have lots of conversations. But besides that, you can find me on Twitter if you can spell Vanderhoek. And of course you can find me on Friday mornings with that guy max flight because he doesn't get enough podcasting during the week, cocky about drones on the UAB digest in max trescott about you. Well, people can always find me at aviation news, talk dot com and click on contact with the top, and you can send me an Email just wanna mention. There's a new episode out of this week. I had about a three week gap. Explain this the details as to why I wasn't able to shows in that episode, but go in gory detail about what it's like to type rating into fly in the Cirrus vision jet, and. Also talking about answering listener question on ANR headset, so big long fund show. Great. He and you can find me on Twitter at max flight. Look for me on linked in is David said at the UNLV digest dot com also with Mary Kirby at peck sex podcast dot com. Our outdraws by Bruno Massoni. You can find more of his compositions where he incorporates aviation sounds into music, and you can find that at Bruno Massoni dot com. So please join us again next week as we talked aviation on the airplane geeks, podcast, five, everybody keep the blue side up and thanks for listening.
Airplane Geeks Podcast