Aired Last week 1:11
Kim Komando | News 96.5 WDBO
Certain iPhone apps are reportedly tracking their users' every swipe
From the news
Aired Last week 0:18
America Trends | Biz Talk Radio
Creepy iPhone apps are recording your screen without permission
Aired Last week 0:30
KNX Midday News with Brian Ping | KNX 1070 NEWSRADIO
Some apps could be recording your screens
Aired 1 year ago 2:43
Air Canada Discussed on Fresh Air
Aired 1 year ago 1:58
The Bangkok Podcast | Expat Life In Thailand Via Expats from Canada
Air Canada Discussed on The Bangkok Podcast | Expat Life In Thailand Via Expats from Canada
Aired Last month 52:53
AvTalk Episode 49: Shut it down
...likewhatAir Canada On this episode of abqtalk Indonesia finds the lion air six one zero cockpit voice recorder. We look at the...
AvTalk - Aviation Podcast
Aired Last week 15:37
766: Renata Mihich, Managing Director, DHL Global Forwarding (DGF)
DHL is the leading global brand in the logistics industry. The DHL family of divisions offer a portfolio of logistics services ranging from national and international parcel delivery, e-commerce shipping and fulfillment solutions, international express, road, air and ocean transport to industrial supply chain management. With around 360,000 employees in more than 220 countries and territories worldwide, DHL connects people and businesses securely and reliably, enabling global trade flows. With specialized solutions for growth markets and industries including technology, life sciences, and healthcare, energy, automotive and retail, a proven commitment to corporate responsibility and an unrivaled presence in developing markets, DHL is decisively positioned as “The logistics company for the world”. However, I wanted to find out more about how the company has been transformed by technology. I also wanted to explore how DHL invests and looks after their people to deliver amazing results. DHL’s Renata Mihich is the managing director for DHL Global Forwarding (DGF) in Canada. She has an interesting and compelling story about her 20+ year career with DHL, which started in customer service in Brazil. She’s moved up the ranks ever since to head up a major sector of the company in Canada. Responsible for a staff of 350 people, Mihich manages the operations and P&L growth of all six Canadian DHL Global Forwarding branch operations, steering the overall development of country sales teams. Under her leadership, she has successfully steered the DHL Global Forwarding Canada group towards executing group strategy and achieving expected results. I invited her onto my daily tech podcast to learn more about her success story and how DHL is embracing rather than fearing technology.
The Tech Blog Writer Podcast - Inspired Tech Startup Stories
Aired Last week 27:10
Alyssa Dver Courageous, Kickass Confidence
Alyssa Dver Courageous, Kickass Confidence e:firstname.lastname@example.org: alyssa.dver w:AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com, FB and T: @ConfidenceInst Chief Confidence Officer, CEO & Co-founder of the American Confidence Institute, Alyssa Dver is the expert on the brain science and social secrets of confidence. In individual and group programs, Alyssa shares confidence-building tips, tools and techniques at MIT, Wharton, Harvard, IBM, Spotify, Wayfair, Pepsi, US Air Force, State Street, Liberty Mutual, Staples, Royal Bank of Canada plus many other companies, conferences, associations, and non-profits. “Kickass Confidence: Own Your Brain. Up Your Game.” is Alyssa’s 6th book. With a popular blog and web show, Alyssa is also a finalist judge for the Stevie’s Best Employer & Women in Business Awards.
Aired 4 months ago 45:33
What You MUST Know if You Fly Commercial Airlines & The Amazing Benefits of Taking Time for Yourself
Spending time with annoying and irritating people can be hazardous to your mental health! That’s according to some research from my alma mater, the University of Southern California. I begin this episode with that and how to bulletproof yourself from the negative effects of those most irritating people. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Annoying-people-can-slow-down-your-brain-Study/articleshow/16765621.cmsWhen you fly on a commercial airplane, I know you have questions about how commercial aviation works – or sometimes DOESN’T work very well. Patrick Smith is a commercial airline pilot and blogger at www.askthepilot.com and author of the book, Cockpit Confidential: Everything You Need to Know About Air Travel https://amzn.to/2CfqIPY. He joins me to answer some of the questions you think about when you are sitting and wondering in your airline seat. Sometimes in winter, you have to stay warm. And as the weather cools off, it is a good time to discuss what’s really important to staying warm in cold weather and how the body reacts to preserve itself when temperatures drop. http://theweek.com/article/index/254754/how-to-keep-warm-outside-5-science-based-tipsWe live in a time when productivity is essential. There is always more to do - but wait! Is striving to do more actually an effective strategy? What if I told you that taking time to unwind, relax and nurture yourself actually makes you MORE productive? You need to hear some important research from Jamie Gruman, professor of Organizational Behavior and a Senior Research Fellow at the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada. Jamie is author of the book Boost: The Science of Recharging Yourself in an Age of Unrelenting Depends https://amzn.to/2pSD8G0. He joins me to challenge everything you’ve ever thought about productivity and getting more done. And you are really going to like what he has to say.This Week's SponsorsLinkedIn Talent. To find the right person for the job and get $50 off your first job post, go to www.Linkedin.com/somethingSimplisafe. For amazing home security at a great price go to www.simplisafe.com/somethingGlip. Sign up for your FREE GLip account now and support this podcast by going to www.Glip.com/something LinkedIn Marketing Solutions. For your free $100 ad credit to launch your first campaign go to www.Linkedin.com/somethingMadison Reed. For 10% off plus free shipping on your first order go to www.Madison-Reed.com/somethingJet.com. For a great online shopping experience like no other go to www.jet.com Hotel Tonight. To get $25 off your first eligible booking download the Hotel Tonight app and use the promo code something.
Something You Should Know
Aired Last month 46:55
Ben Stiller On 'Escape At Dannemora'
The message comes from NPR sponsor, the American Academy of PA's with thousands of hours of medical training and versatile skill set p as are expanding access to team based care when it comes to quality healthcare. Your PA can handle it from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air today. Ben Stiller tax about directing the Showtime series escape at Denham Maura. It's based on the true story of two murderers who escaped from a maximum security prison in upstate New York in two thousand fifteen with the help of a woman who wasn't Floyd. There some scenes were shot in that prison going into that prison. The first thing I thought about was getting out that was you know, like, I was so happy to leave. So it doesn't shock me that anybody in their would wanna get out, even if you knew that the odds were against you this series stars Benicio del Toro, Paul Dino. And Patricia Arquette who just won a Golden Globe for her performance. Whilst killer was editing the series. He started playing. Michael Cohen on Saturday Night Live. Attorney at law and also sometimes not law that's on fresh air. You probably know my guest, Ben Stiller for his work acting in and directing film comedies and lately for playing Michael Cohen on Saturday Night Live. But now he's getting praised for directing the seven part Showtime drama series escape it down Amora yesterday. He was nominated for an award from the directors guild in the category TV movie or limited series escaped from Dan Amora is based on the true story of two inmates who escaped from a maximum security prison in upstate New York. In twenty fifteen the series is not just about planning and executing. The escape is also a character study of those two inmates and the woman who worked at the prison who helped them escape both inmates. Richard Matt played by Benicio del Toro and David sweat played by Paul deneau worked at the prison tailor shop were prison. Uniforms were made they convinced the civilian employees who ran the shop. Joyce Tillie Mitchell to get them the tools they use. Used to dig through the basement walls and steam pipes of the old prison to escape there were able to manipulate her through sexual relationships with her they told her they wanted to be with her after they escaped with a really wanted was for her to be with them just long enough to get the getaway car and get them to save place. She's played by Patricia Arquette who just won a Golden Globe for her performance. The series opens with our cats character Tillie Mitchell in jail. This time is an inmate not an employee. She's being questioned by the New York state inspector general who's investigating the escape. The inspector general is played by Bonnie hunt. Nice to meet you Joyce. The report calls meet Tilly till it is choices my mother's name. When you call me joy. So I feel like you're talking to my mother. Is your mom still with us? Good. I love Noam. My mom's just a phone call away. Thirty talked to the cops four times in seven days. I understand. Yeah. So what is this? What's not get into any details until this dog refer gets here. I mean, even though it's all taped. It's actually more accurate. This girl specially should done with me fifteen years. I did a comparison. I was right. You too steep. Please, please. Now, I'm the inspector general for the state of New York. Oh, so a post office. No the post offices, federal I'm state. So if there's any corruption in the state agency, it's my job to find it and stop it. Whether it's a state park or the port authority, and I report directly to the governor. Lose my job. Should you? Ben Stiller, welcome to fresh air, and congratulations on escape at ten or more with their aspects of this story that most interested you. Well. Yeah. I mean, there was the actual escape part. And I really was into that. And as I learned more about it and read more about the the prison itself. What really interested me was how they were able to do this how they were able to get away with this in twenty fifteen. It seemed like such an old fashioned sort of escape, and I thought, wow, that, you know, how can that happen in in today's prison system, which you know, when you think about the prison system in the United States, you think of it as being sort of it's not it seems sort of depressing, obviously. But at and you think of these institutions, they don't seem like they're state of the art. But to actually, you know, have people be able to do something like that was fascinating to me. Me that they could get away with it in this day and age, and so that part of it, and then the relationships that developed a guess in the prison that allowed them to be able to get the tools, which led to Tilly, and the fact that she was actually having this interaction and relationship with these two guys, which then led to the environment, the tailor shop, and what exists in place, and how that works which was really really interesting and something I'd I had no idea existed prison tailor shop where both of the inmates and the woman who helped them escape work and they make prison. Uniforms. They're so what was so surprising to you about that? Just the fact that it was so I don't wanna say loose, but open in terms of the just the way the actual physical setup of it which was forty or so inmates. Who are in a maximum security facility for you know, committing violent crimes in a room with one civilian supervisor and one corrections officer, and that's it. And these these men are, you know, working with scissors and shears, and you know, all sorts of instruments that could be used for bad things. And it's just sort of like an honor system that's going on in there. And and how low tech it was really low tech. You know, really novato cameras. There's that back room that they would go into that Tilly would go into Lizzie add with covert sexual relations with the inmates. Yes. Yes. And and just how how the whole thing was sort of kind of like operated. Its first of all it's a business core craft is a for profit business. That's so, you know, the civilian supervisors overseeing these inmates who are working for. Or something like thirty five or forty cents an hour, and they have to meet a quota, and it's kind of a strange situation. You know, it's just it's because you know, when you think about that that these, you know, the the civilian supervisor has to fill quotas, and these workers have to be motivated to do that when they're prisoners who were working for basically, hardly anything. It's just a kind of a screwed up dynamic. I think you were able to actually shoot at Clinton correctional facility. Indiana Maura where the story is set. Did you have any protection when you shooting in there? Did you feel like you needed any did the correctional facility feel like you needed any? The first trip that we took in there. We got shirt into a little trailer that sort of a permanent trove of ahead setup and a meeting room in there and the superintendent and the deputy superintendent and a bunch of people who were administrators at the prison gave us a talk and told us what what we're going to be doing. And that the tour we were going to be taking, and you know, basically said this is a dangerous environment. And they were going to do everything they could to keep us safe and keep things as low key as possible. But the reality is, you know, you're in a prison. And so you don't know what could happen and. They tried to walk us through spaces at times when prisoners weren't there in the spaces. So like we were actually ushered into the sort of this small little office area. When you first walk in where the corrections officers can lock themselves in to turn on lights and things like that. And because the timing was off they had all their probably about twelve of us from the crew we all kind of jammed into that little office while they let the inmates go out for lunch because we were they were behind schedule, and that was really strange experience because you know, here we are all jammed at this little office. And then you know, the inmates were looking at us. We were looking at them. And you know, they're they're human beings. They're people. But you know, I'm sure they had their thoughts about what are we you know, what what are these visitors up to? And then you just see that, you know, the reality of life for for for these people, which is very, you know, it's regimented, and it's an obviously they're all there for. But as you know, in terms of like the human condition of it. It's it's pretty heavy. So one of the things that you depict in the film, which was in new stories, you know, about about the escape and also in the inspector general's report as how sex was for favors and how the two inmates and the woman who Patricia Arquette plays who was assigned to supervise, you know, the civilian employees scientists supervise the tailor shop where the two inmates worked the two inmates were who escaped were manipulating her. She was manipulating them. It was kind of complicated game that they were playing, but because of the sex for favors thing, she ended up smuggling, you know, helping to smuggle into them with the tools that they needed to escape, but you know, you also depict the sex that at least some of the sex that they had and you had to decide like how are you going to pick that it's a key part of the story. It to keep hard for like the motivation. It's a key part for how the inmates got the tools they needed. The inspector general's report makes clear that inspector general concluded that the character that Benicio del Toro played Richard Matt did have sex with Joyce Tillie Mitchell, but David sweat, the inmate whose divide the the the the escape and is back in prison. It's unclear whether he definitely had sex with her or whether it's just people saying that he did because he denied it and Tilly denied a two. So you had to decide should you pick that or not? But so let's start with their decide because it's definitive in your version of the story that they actually did have sex and that even when he wanted to stop. She kinda wouldn't let him. Yeah. I mean, we we decided to make that choice because of the evidence that we saw in reading the reports and reading the interviews in the transcripts and even for me talk into David sweat who still denied it when I talked to him. And and look I'm not saying that definitely happened. But in our estimation from looking at the evidence of how many notes were passed between him and her how he was kicked out of the tailor shop for going in the back room with her how he she was taking pictures of herself naked pictures of herself in her private parts and giving it to him and he gave her his undershirt as as we depict in the show. And also we really felt that there was a relationship going on there that was going beyond the bounds of what they both say was happening. Now it could. We could be wrong. And I you know, I know that Joyce Mitchell spoke out about it. And you know, I was clear in saying this isn't a documentary, but I wouldn't have put that in there. If I didn't feel that that was closer to the truth, and what they were saying, but that is our our stipulation. Yes, she she called you a liar and an idiot. A son of a bitch idiot and a liar. And yeah. Accused you of exploiting her story for millions of dollars. Yeah. Which is not I'm not that's not happening at least in terms of the monetary aspect that wasn't my motivation. That wasn't. It's not what's happening. I I was fascinated by the story. And she you know, she has stuck to that story the whole time. But it's you know, it's also clear that she was not truthful when you look at her her multiple interviews with the state police, and and then with the inspector general, and how many times she contradicted herself and change her story. So you know, I I said I don't have any ill will towards her. And I understand that. It's probably not a great experience that she's having right now, you chose not to try to meet with her. Is that right? Yeah. You didn't meet with David sweat, the survivor of the two inmates. He's the one who's played by Paul Dottino. Why did you want to meet with him? And what what was that meeting like? Well, it was it was really interesting. I I wanted to be with him mainly because it spent so much time on the research, and I wrote a letter to him and then the department of corrections when they decided to start helping us offered us a access to go meet with him if he agreed to meet. So I just wanted to, you know, sit in sit across from him and see what what he had to say about the escape especially I mean, the details of the escape or really the most interesting thing to me about talking to him. And why I wanted to talk to him Lizzie really proud of what he accomplished by figuring out how to escape from a maximum security prison. I think he had a my experience was with him was that he was very affable. And he had a sense of not really wanting to boast about it in a way that seemed like he had accomplish something that was good. I think he really made made it clear that he knew that he had done something wrong. And and didn't wanna seem that he was kind of proud of it at the same time. He offered up all the details that I you know, could could ask for and was really, you know, specific, and yeah, I think, you know, I think he does feel like he did something. But he never once boasted about in a way that he thought it was something good that he had done know. I don't think he was trying to to sort of, you know, bask in that David sweat who you who you met with. So he had. On July fourth. I forget what year it was July fourth of. Thank you. He and some friends had robbed a fireworks was a fireworks in munitions store. Yes. I think it was a fireworks and gun store sometime. And so that they stole a lot of stuff and they're going through what they got when a police car. What was actually a deputy sheriff pulls up. Do you want to join it describe the crime? It's pretty horrible. Yeah. I mean, it is it is. Yeah, they they were a bunch of teenagers. I think he was I'm not sure how old you maybe twenty or something like that. And he'd already had a record and had been in detention before and they had yet rob this store, and they were transferring these guns from one from a pickup truck into his car or the other way around and this deputy was on patrol in. Mm-hmm. County New York, and he just happened upon seeing them in this parking lot. He saw something was going on and he pulled into the parking lot. And he got out of the car and started to draws weapon. And you know, an announced that he was police and and David sweat shot him. I think thirteen times and then and then ran him over with his car, and then his friend came over and picked up the officer's gun and shot him two more times. And. You know, it's a horrible crime in kind of a senseless crime. And and that's you know, that's what he did to be sentenced to life imprisonment, and the the really it's absolutely horrible that he shot this deputy sheriff the fact that after shooting him thirteen times, then he gets. Then the killer gets in a car and runs him over. That's just twisted. I mean, that's just sadistic and twisted. And here you were talking to him. So how much of that? Did you keep in your mind? How much of it? Did you try to block out while you were talking to him and trying to get as much information and insight from him as you could? You know, well to me, that's what the interesting thing is about incarceration, and kind of this story that we're telling how people act in life, and they can do a horrible thing, and then life goes on, and then you know, there and they act normally or they, you know, are not, you know, they don't act like a monster. Which is why these guys were on the honor block. They were Matt and sweat who both committed really really horrific crimes were at totally. You know, good behavior in prison the whole time. That's why they were giving these privileges. So it's that strange thing of trying to reconcile somebody who's done something really bad, and yet you're sitting across from them, and and they're acting normally and they're being nice. So I think that's just human nature that you don't go to that. Unless the crime has been somehow. How -ffected you in in? This is just being being honest. You know, it's affected you in a personal way. You know, you're going to have that feeling, but if you don't know this person, and they're just across from you, and they're acting normally and there, you know, trying to, you know, be cooperative. It wasn't. It wasn't in the forefront of my mind. But it was obviously the reality of what had happened. And that's what's so disturbing in a way, I think so. So do you know what I mean? Like, it's a strange thing where it's it was if I'm just being totally honest. It was easy for me in the moment with him to let that go as I was asking him details of the escape. I'm not saying that's a good thing. You know? It's not something. I'm proud of. But the reality was that since I didn't have as per an, and then as I, you know, so as I learn more about what he had actually did a done. And actually when we filmed it when we filmed the scene to to, you know, have a small feeling of what that reality was of what happened, you know, it actually, you know, affected me much more. And then as the reality of the show came came on the air, and the fact that the officers relatives were going to see this, you know, all of that rotted much more home to me. And I just say that in that it's trying to liberate I think it's easy sometimes for human beings to disconnect. And and I think I was probably a little guilty about when I was sitting across from him. I guess it's Ben Stiller. He directed the seven part Showtime series escaped from Dan Amora after we take a short break. We'll talk about shooting some scenes in the prison from which the two inmates escaped and Stiller. We'll talk about playing Michael Cohen on Saturday Night Live. I'm Terry gross. And this is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from duck, duck go in a time when some big tech companies or surveilling your every move online. Duck duck. Go has a private search engine that allows people to search without being tracked, plus their mobile, apps and browser extensions. Block sketchy add trackers across the web. Visit duck duck go dot com slash listen to take back your privacy. That's get back to my interview. With Ben Stiller we've been talking about the crime that landed one of the two escapees imprison, David sweat. Let's talk about the crime that landed the other escapee in prison. For murder, and that's Richard Matt who's played by Benicio del Toro in the series. And oh man talk about gruesome. No, he he killed his former boss, and he came to the boss's house kind of forces way in ask for all. You weren't you take it from here. Yeah. Yeah. It was his boss was older in his seventies. And he somehow heard that he had what he says in the what it's in the police reports he said that he'd heard that he had ten thousand dollar stacks. He kept on saying these his he has these ten thousand dollar stacks. And he was going to try to, you know, get them from him. And he ended up with a friend of his tying him up putting them in the trunk of his car and driving around for twenty four hours, and and basically torturing him and then eventually killing him and dumping him. By lake tunnel Wanda up near buffalo. And then I think it's actually in buffalo, and then he came back a few days later and severed the body after it had basically been frozen out there and then through the body parts out into the lake and hit them. And. Yeah, that was his crime is really. Yeah. I mean, I think Richard Matt was really a much more of a cold blooded killer. It feels like when you read about what he did. And versus what David sweats impulse killing fills like that. What was that? What that was. But he had you know, then he killed somebody else in Mexico, Richard. Matty was in a Mexican jail for eight or nine years, and then got extradited back for this crime. When before he went to jail for the. For the murder. So he has a career killer in criminal. I have to confess I had trouble watching the scenes of the murder and torture. So I'd like to know how far you wanted to go with it. Because you really I I know you really wanted to convey the horror of this crime, the brutality of this person who you might have had some sympathy for in previous episodes because you don't show the moat murders till the end of the series. So you had a lot of decisions to make about how how detailed to show the murder in the torture. Yeah. I mean, it's a sort of a. A judgment call as in terms of what is too much, and I do I know there are certain people who. I would show it to when we were in the editing process who felt that they couldn't watch certain parts of thought it was too much. I had to kind of go off my own subjective feeling about what was important to to see about what these guys day. But that's always that's always a came down more as we were editing. It got less and less terms of what we saw. But it's very brutal. And I mean, the intention behind it was hopefully as an audience, you, you know, our jarred because you've it's what we were talking about earlier developed this sort of I don't know impression of who these guys are based on who they been for the last, you know, five hours of the series who are just guys in prison trying to get out which is what you're experience would be of them. If you met him the way I met David sweat is a guy just you know, sitting there across me. But the reality is that they did these brutal crimes. So that's why. Felt it was important to have it be shocking and brutal as a viewer after sort of being lulled into the reality of who they were now. Something I kept wondering watching escape down. Oh, more. Like didn't these guys ever watched a prison break movie? Like, no one it never works out. Like, even if you scape like your shot or you're brought back to prison it never works. Like, could you think about that? Well, no, I mean, I didn't think I would. Here's what I mean for me going into that prison and spending a very little amount of time in that prison. The first thing I thought about was getting out that was you know, I'd like I was so happy to leave at you know, after a while it was fascinating. Or even when we were shooting at the end of the day. I was you know, I felt so fortunate to leave. So I it doesn't shock me that anybody in their would wanna get out. Even if you know, you knew that it was the odds were against you. I mean, I think you have to have a certain type of personality to actually say I'm going to go for this. Because the, you know, the flip side is if you get caught, you know, you're in worship. But these these guys were aware of Shawshank, Redemption, they actually even made a joke when they got to the outer wall where sweat saw the wall. And he said, you know, this is like Shawshank, Redemption, it's going to take us. It took them twenty years. And like Matt says what's going to take us ten or something? And we actually had that dialogue in the show. And I took it out because it just seemed too self referential, but that actually that. But sweat says that that interaction happens. I think they definitely knew about, you know, I mean, they they knew you know, movies and pop culture and all that. But I think they just had a desire to to really get out of that place. And they did, you know, the other thing is that sweat. Did do this dryer on the night before when he finally cut through the pipe on the other side of the wall and got out and he got to the manhole cover at about three thirty or something in the morning on. I guess it was Friday night before Thursday night before because he left on a Friday night, but he could have left without Matt. And he didn't. And when I asked him he said that well they just had this plan because till he was going to meet them. But he said if if if he hadn't have waited if you had left he could have just stolen a motorcycle, and he probably would have gotten very far, and he could he could easily have gotten to Canada in the middle of the night and gone through. And it would have been much tougher to find him. So what are the ways they escaped is the David sweat found? This like giant hot water pipe that was turned off for the summer. He cut a hole in that crawled out out of that it led to a manhole cover that he was able to open and that sort alter mentally led them to escape there were a lot of steps along the way. But did you literally shoot in that pipe? What we shot in a pipe. We shot in eighteen inch pipe, which is what they were in. We'd it wasn't that pipe. But we basically recreated the the the set based on the actual dimensions of the of the area that they were where they got to that. They basically he went down through that catwalk got down into the bowels of the prison and found his way underneath all the buildings to the outer wall. The base of the outer wall of the prison, and they're in that going into that outer wall was a steam pipe that was coming from the power plant that was about I don't know about a thousand feet away from the prison. So he knew that that steam pipe led to the power plant. But this wall was in the way, and it was a seven foot thick wall. So that that we recreated that that pipe in that area where the outer wall was where he did all the cutting. And then we've found we found locations. We've found a prison in Pittsburgh that was about one hundred and fifty years old even older than Clinton, and we shot in the actual underground area of that prison, and we also shot in waste treatment facility tunnels in Yonkers New York. And then we also built and built pipe sections. Also. So it was a combination of all those. Is Ben Stiller? He was just no monitored for a director's guild award for directing the seven part Showtime series escape at Dan Amora. We'll talk more after a break. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from each raid. Are you ready to make moves with your money? Invest with each rate and you'll see how simple investing can be no matter your level of experience each rates easy to use platform keeps you in the know about your money every step of the way, but it's not just their platform that sets them apart. Each rate has the people to offer guidance and support to make your money work hard for you for more information. Visit each raid dot com slash NPR each rate securities LLC member FINRA as IPC stash shepherd thought she knew her dad. But then one day a stranger called a home phone is in my ear, and he's saying your fathers. Did you know that the story of a fallen hero? And a mysterious obsession that drove him for decades this week on hidden brain. Let's get back to my interview with Ben Stiller, he directed the seven part Showtime drama series escape addendum, Maura based on the true story of two murderers who escaped from a maximum security prison in upstate New York in two thousand fifteen so some of your shoot was at Clinton correctional facility with a story actually happened. And you were I denied permission. Then you got a personal meeting with governor Andrew Cuomo, and he gave you permission. What did you have to do to convince them that this wasn't going to be another version of Oz? I didn't have to do anything. I mean, we reached out and talked to his chief of staff and she. Talked to him. And and we told her I told her what we were doing because we were able to get access to any any prisons in New York. And I felt that as the governor and the New York state film commissioned. They would want us to have at least a chance to shoot more of the show in New York just for you know, for the revenue for since two New York story. And so I think that was part of it. And he was like, yeah, we want you guys to be telling the story here, and and to bring bringing the business to New York, and and he was also really fascinated by the story. So when I talked to her she got us in touch with the department of corrections. And I think they talked to them and ask them to be helpful to us. And the they said they would open up the manhole for us, and let us shoot outside the prison. And then he said do you want to have a meeting because I'd like to hear what you're doing? And so I sat and talked with him. And he wasn't in any way questioning me as to what we were. You know, what was going to be in the store you never once? To see the script, or you know, you know, make sure that they approved of what we were doing. He surely wanted to. I think just here what I was interested in the story. And then he at the end of the meeting he said, well, what can we do to help you? And that was the moment where I was. I was thinking of the hundred people back at the production office who were you know, we didn't have a location in a as like, well, can we shoot at the prison and he lifted his teeth savage. You gotta shoot you gotta shoot at the prison. Right. And I was very happy. But really the fact that they allowed us to shoot like any of those scenes were Tilly and Lyle or going to work, and you see people going in and out of the prisoner or even just shooting the prison itself and all the exteriors the aerial shots. And the manhole that they unsealed the actual manhole for us during the O C, you film, the escape with the real manhole we filmed him when he comes it when they come out of the manhole that's the actual manhole, and that's the actual street. And that's the actual. Let's basically what happened when they came out of the manhole and episode five when they walk around the block and decide to walk down the street, and you know, have a cigarette that that's according to sweat. Exactly what happened, and that's the place that happened in. Vinicio del Toro play. The convicted murderer and prison escapee as both charming when he wants to be and just really terrifying and crazy at other times threatening out of control. Did you give him any suggestions or any insights into? What you wanted him to bring out? Yes. Because I'm going to tell Benita they'll Torah how to be intimidating and scary. I really felt like he hadn't achieved that and I could help him out with that. You know, he I I loved working with him. He had so many specific ideas about how to approach this character and make, you know, make him a full character that was obviously very very manipulative, and and able to intimidate and operate in that world, and so I relied on on his instincts a lot of the time that I would then kind of go back and forth with him on and insert scenes. I'd have more of an instinct of what I felt should happen. But he always had a very very strong point of view. I mean, one of the things that he suggested that I I thought worked really well was in the first episode. We originally had him doing something violent to somebody on the north yard to show that he was a dangerous guy because violence happens out on the north yard people. Get shaved, you know, people get beaten up things happen out there and. He suggested that we cut that scene and not show Matt being violent until the sixth episode when we see the flashback, and I thought that was a really bold choice on his part. Because what he was basically saying is I can be intimidating and scary without having to show any violence. And I think our show is probably like the least violent prison show ever made. You know? I mean, it's really except maybe for stir crazy or something, you know. I mean, it's not there's no there's really there are no scenes of you know, there you don't see any except for you know, obviously in prison. Outside of prison in that one episode episode, but that one episode but other than that one episode there there really isn't anything else. And so that was his choice. You know, he said, I think this'll be much more effective to see the violence of this guy. You know that deep into the story Patricia Arquette gained around forty pounds t play the prison employees. And what what issues does that create for you as director because there was also, you know, the scenes that are shot when she's in prison or jail, and so her weight changes depending on what the time is that you're shooting. So it takes time to gain weight and it takes time to lose weight. So just as the director in that situation is supposed to being the person who has to eat a lot or stop eating. What what are the issues that you have to deal with? Well, I was concerned about it. First of all because those shoot was so long the shoot was eight months long, and I really felt like she needed to gain the weight too. You know, you can't just wear sort of, you know, a suit to make you look heavier. I, you know, it changes her face and all that and she was also wearing teeth and and contact lenses to make is Brown because she has these piercing blue eyes. And so it was a whole bunch of things. But the weight was really really important. I felt because she has such, you know, she's very classically beautiful woman who has these movie star looks, and it was just trying to sort of get away from that for this character, and it was tough because I kept on encouraging her to to eat so and Paul dano was working out with a weight coach because he he's, you know, not as built as David sweat was David sweat built up in prison because he was. Afraid of getting beaten up so all of them had to commit to to changing their bodies. Let's take a short break here. And when we come back. We'll talk about playing Michael Cohen. If you're just joining us, my guest is Ben Stiller and he directed the seven part Showtime series escape at Dan Amora, which is based on a real prison escape from twenty fifteen. We'll be right back. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Royal Carribean who invites you to discover that adventure doesn't happen. If you just go along for the ride with Royal Caribbean. You can tell gravity to take a flying leap as you skydive at C take a new culinary world tour on board every night and discovered different island destinations all in one trip. Why just vacation in the Caribbean when you can go on an adventure with Royal Caribbean. Come seek at Royal Caribbean dot com ships registry Bahamas, a rent prices leveling off what's the best job after college? And is our labor market actually, healthy listen to planet. Money's daily podcast, the indicator to find out so we have to talk about my playing Michael Cohen. Saturday Night Live. So let let's start with a clip. And so this is from December first and President Trump is feeling lonely at the G twenty summit in Argentina. So he calls Michael cone and moral on the phone. Of course, he wants to talk about what he wants advice about how to handle the Muller probe. So here's Alec Baldwin as Trump and my guest, Ben Stiller as Michael Cohen. Stands me. Who can I call someone who I know will always answer. Yes. Cohn. Speaking tell you anything you want. Mr trump. I'm not supposed to be talking to you. Mike, I'm going to get in trouble. But my Mikey cocoa and cocoa puffs. Okay, fine. I can't say no to my Donald Trump. You gotta give me out of this. Who can I give up to the feds? What if I put my son, Eric it's old age makeup in a fat suit and say, it's me, not sure that'll work. Just be Eric will never catch on. Sorry, Mr. Trump. It's over. Michael list? There are some things that can never take away from us. Our late night talks. It got him on tape vacations to Moscow sees the records. What about hairstylists blind with the shaky hands? He died like months ago. I'm sad. You're going to prison Michael you were like a son to me. Then why did you make me do so much illegal stuff because you were like send to me? Alec Baldwin and my guest, Ben Stiller and Saturday Night Live. How did you become Michael Cohen on us? I got a call from an Email from from Lorne Michaels actually was emailing Lauren to tell him that. I wanted to bring my daughter to the show for the first time who's sixteen and and it was the week. I guess this came up, and he sent me back an Email and said, oh, that's great. Yeah. Definitely you can bring an oath, by the way. Do you have a Michael Cohen lying around? Meaning do Michael Cohen impression lying around which I of course, didn't and that was that. And then, and then I, you know, I tried to YouTube him and trying to come up with some version because he didn't really talk that much talk that much and and that was it. You know, that's the way it works on SNL. They'll write the the piece, you know, maybe on Thursday if you're lucky, but usually on Friday or even being written rewritten on Saturday up till the show. So sometimes I would get the call like on Friday night. But that's how that happened the first time in your New York. So. Are you in York? Yes, I'm yes. I'm in New Yorker, and and it was pretty convenient. And also, I was in the sort of like in the midst of editing, Dan Amora, so it it was a pretty funny experience to kind of jump into basically, the the opposite experience of editing editing where you're sitting in a room with an editor. And just kind of, you know, not in any mode other than sort of watching and looking and and then all of a sudden, you're like being thrown into live performing in front of a national audience, which is not my favorite thing to be so much fun for you. The first time you walk on stage as Michael Cohen, and here, the audience's response, the audience goes crazy. I mean, there's nothing like being on Saturday Night Live and the craziness of it. I mean is really there's nothing like that feeling of I don't that feeling in the pit your stomach, and it's just you know. Tonight Connex show, and it's live, and I I was actually just talking to one of the cast members last night about how that's a gene that certain performance have which I don't I don't enjoy that. I don't sort of, you know, live for that. I I'm much happier. Doing multiple takes, you know, making a movie or you know, not having a few shots at it. But there's certain performers who are so brilliant at it at doing that live. I think a lot of the cast members that are on now. But so, yeah, there's nothing like that feeling I find it incredibly exciting slash stressful. And then it's really fun. I mean, it's really really fun when you know when something works, and and you're in that, you know, it's a cycle one of kind sort of experience. I know what season is mostly movies and the. The Emmys are in the full, but is escape at Denham more. Does that qualify as a movie for award season? We qualify for like for the Golden Globes. We were nominated for best limited series. And for the Emmys will be in the best the best limited series category. And and then there's there's other there's all sorts of categories. You can stress out over. But. Yeah, that's what it'll be under this stressful season for you. You know, I've never really been in the mix in terms of award season for things I've done. Honestly. I mean, we want an EMMY back in I guess ninety four for the sketch show, the Ben Stiller show that the Judd appetite night did and we won that nine months after we were cancelled. And we were most anybody. So after that, you believe anything is possible. I guess, but you know, over the years, it just hasn't really been in been my thing. So it's very nice right now, like the fact that we're nominated for a couple of Golden Globes and the Patty one who so I was so grateful to be in the mix with all all of those shows which were so accomplished and so good. And so, you know on on that level. I'm proud that we've gotten some other nominations, and I'm just, you know, it's really fun. It's all sort of feels like, okay, great. You know, this is happening for the show. I'm very proud of the work. We've all done. Well, best great to talk with you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ben Stiller directed the seven part Showtime series escape at Dan Amora, which is available on demand. Yesterday Stiller was nominated for a directors guild award tomorrow on fresh air. I'll talk with Rachel Maddow and Mike yard. It's about their podcast bag man, it investigates, the bribery and extortion scandal that led to the resignation of Nixon's first, vice president Spiro Agnew, the podcast reveals some new twists in that story. It's a story that has important parallels and lessons that relate to the current investigations into President Trump. I hope you'll join us. Fresh Air's executive producers, Danny Miller, our interviews and reviews produced an edited by EMI salad. Phyllis myers. Sam brigger, Lauren crendall, Heidi Simone. Theresa Madden lose eighty Challenor and Seth Kelly. I'm Terry gross.
Aired 4 months ago 50:42
Best Of: 'First Man' Dir. Damien Chazelle / Leonard Cohen's Legacy
Support for this podcast and the following message come from internet essentials from Comcast, connecting more than six million low income people to low cost, high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more now they're ready for anything from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air weekend Armstrong is on the move. Thirty eight year old American standing on the surface of the moon today Damian Chazelle writer and director of whiplash and LA La Land tax about his new movie. I man starring Ryan Gosling as Neil Armstrong, and we talk about Leonard Cohen as a songwriter poet and father with his son. Adam Cohen here remembers when his father was composing his best known song. Hallelujah. For the failed. All major. Babble. I remember coming down to the kitchen table and he was there with a nylon string guitar in his underwear, and they're always be versus to consult support for this podcast. And the following message come from made well where the motto is good day start with great Jane's made well has options for every type of Denham Devoto men's and women's styles, extended sizes and more and you can recycle any brand of old genes in made. Well stores made well works with blue jeans. Go green to turn them into housing insulation for communities in need for every pair you bring in, you'll get twenty dollars off in new. So stop by a maid well store or go to made well dot com. This is fresh air weekend. I'm Terry gross. We're getting a picture on the TV that video image was being transmitted, live from the moon to NASA and around the world just after the Apollo eleven lunar module commanded by Neil Armstrong, became the first manned spacecraft to land on the moon. Moments. Later Armstrong became the first woman to walk on the moon and said, these now famous words. Oh, man. Biathlete. That was fifty years ago when NASA didn't have the computer technology we have today, and that makes the successful moon landing even more remarkable. My guest Damian Chazelle directed the new movie. I man based on Neil Armstrong's life in the nineteen sixties. When he was an astronaut and took incredible risks to test new spacecraft's and fly to the moon. Armstrong is played by Ryan Gosling who also starred in the movie musical LaLa land which detail wrote and directed Giselle won the best director Oscar for that film. He also wrote and directed whiplash. Let's start with a scene from I man astronauts Neil Armstrong. Mike Collins and Buzz Aldrin played by Corey stall are seated together at a table at a press conference in July nineteen. Sixty nine taking questions from reporters before embarking on their Apollo eleven mission to the moon, Neal. If it does turn out, you'll go down in history. What kind of thoughts do you have about that? One thought hits you? Gosh, supposed. That flight successful or planning on that flight being successful? I just met how you feel about being a part of history. I think I can shed some light here. The responsibility. But it's exciting to be the first. If my wife is excited, she keeps letting jewellery into my PK. You're planning on taking some of her jewellery to the moon bus jer what fellow wouldn't want to give his wife bragging rights. Neil, would you take anything. But I had a choice dig more fuel. Damian Chazelle welcome back to fresh air and congratulations on. I man, you know, my first reaction when I heard you're going to make a film about Neil Armstrong and the moonwalk was what? Why would someone who so absorbed in movies and jazz and musicals make a movie about an astronaut and space. I love the film, but I was wondering when you will offer the chance to make this film, how did you see yourself being the right fit with it? Well, you know, I, I, myself, I think had the the same sort of initial, you know, I, it didn't really line up with the sort of films I'd been making our or kind of had in my mind, but I think after thinking about it for a little bit and and during the region Hanson's incredible book the movies based on its struck me as a story about dreams and the cost of pursuing those dreams. And you know that those are similar thematic terrain at least to to whiplash in Lal and and and, but just on this kind of grand cosmic canvas. And so it seemed like if if I could tell that story and tracing this sort of journey from the kind of intimate home life on the ground to the sort of extremes of human experience out in space, there could be some sort of through line that connected those. It could be really interesting. Well, you manage to connect. I man team usable in two ways. One is that in the film anyways, I don't know if it was true in real life. Neil are. Strong had written lyrics for a musical and college, whose title was college spelled backwards. So it was like eagle. And and during that that is true. That is true. Okay. So you must have read it to that. I, we've been too self conscious to make that up if it weren't true, definitely true, Neil Armstrong. And during his son's birthday party, he puts in a cassette of Oklahoma. Another musical reference was that you slipping that in or did he like Oklahoma, he liked Oklahoma. You like they would play Camelot a lot of throughout the house as well. Apparently, I mean, he was a big show tunes fan. He was a big kind of big band fan, big fan of the instrument, the thera men, which we use a lot in the in the score. So lots of lots of little MU musical idiosyncrasies with them the say, lineup, with my own. An experience I had watching the movie, and I think a lot of people probably leave or Willie feeling this way is that, you know, I was alive for the moon landing, and I remember watching it on television at all, seemed like so incredibly high tech. And now fifty years later, seeing a reproductions of the technology that was used them. It looks so relatively low tech. I mean, car dashboards look more high tech today than some of the control panels in the space capsule they're like knobs and analog meters. And it just makes you wonder like, how did they do this? How do they do this without the kind of computer and digital technology that we have today. It makes it even more astonishing. I think, you know, it's, it's it's astonishing enough that human beings have ever walked on the moon, but that they did it over fifty years ago with the technology that they had. You know, these capsules were not really. I would say we're not kind of reassuring to look at when you're about to get into them. They're tiny, they're rickety. They, as you say, are totally kind of analog and feel. I mean, often they feel more like extensions of the machine age than the space age. They feel like things that you'd expect out of a World War, Two submarine or tank movie very much the opposite. I think of how at least my generation grew up thinking about space travel, which was high tech, which was, you know it was everything having to do with space, travel in the movies was sleek and grand and clean and just the epitome of technology. And really, this was this was a time where you know we were being thrust into the future before the future at arrived. And I've just find that fascinating and you have a group of people literally making it up as they go along. An example of all the things that could possibly go wrong in the Gemini eight flight the this is like the first. There's going to be the test of the first space craft to dock with another spacecraft to see if that's possible. And so you know, Neil Armstrong's on that mission and as he's getting strapped in to the space capsule before takeoff on this really daring into interest mission, they realize his seatbelt isn't working like the mechanism stuck and well, one of the members of the tech route says, does anybody have a Swiss army knife? And it just makes me think about if the seat belt isn't working, just think about all the things that could possibly go wrong. And that's a kind of constant theme of the movie, like all the things that could possibly go wrong and how amazing it is that any of this happened. It was one of the big things I wanted to try to get across because I think we almost take the moon landing for granted today, and maybe it's because the sort of image of NASA at that time and and that we've lived with since was the sort of high tech image you describe in this kind of image of of sort of the Pitta me of technology and the epitome of individuals. This idea of superheroes basically walking among us who did these deeds were almost easy for them because they were just so super heroine. I think it's much more interesting to think of these people as ordinary human beings working with the limited technology that they had, you know, scrounging things together, figuring stuff out fixing things with Swiss army knives, doing calculations with pencils and paper, and also, you know, the families. I think there's the whole untold story of kind of what this actually meant on a family level. And so to me, it was really important to, you know, at every juncture be looking at Neil in conjunction with with Janet with Janet Armstrong. I was lucky to spend time with before she passed away and and and and talk to about this period in their life. And just, you know what that means to a marriage, what it means to a family where you're trying to raise kids, you know, in Neil's case too, you know, literally perform, you know, for example, this gem eight mission which came this close to resulting in his death. Something I, I didn't know about it was a total near catastrophe in space that almost cost the lives of two astronauts and end the program right then in the mid sixties and he comes home and has to, you know, take out the trash and clean the pool and help make his kids breakfast in the morning. How do you, how do you balance those two things? I think I'd just I found that fascinating. You know a moment that stands out in my mind from the film is right before the moon flight. NASA puts together a press statement about the deaths of the men on the flight because they're planning for possible catastrophe. And so you know, they're basically sending this astronauts off into space, hoping they land on the moon, but if they don't doesn't guess they don't. Nasr's preparing, you know, basically a eulogy, a press release eulogy. Did did that actually happen. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can find the you, you know, you can search online in event of moon. Disaster was sort of the, you know, the the sort of heading on the copy. And so the sheet of paper, you see a cure Hines who plays about Gilbert than the movie holding is is pretty closely modeled after you know, the actual sort of formatting and paper that you can find online and the wording is is word for word. And it's a really, I mean, it's it's, I actually really love that that speech because you know, thank God. It was never given, but in a way it encapsulates and such a poetic, beautiful way the willingness to sacrifice and and this kind of reminder of the greater goals of all of it. You know, there's a a line in the in the speech that says basically a from now on anyone who looks up at the at the moon will know that there's some part of another world that is forever mankind, and there's just a a, you know, obviously a combination of tragedy in reading that knowing what the intent of that speech was, but yet also at the same time, this incredible kind of hope and. This sort of unifying kind of outlook on what space travel could do, you know, and what these sort of risky costly brave ventures could maybe do for for the country and for humanity. I was wondering if the astronauts Neil Armstrong new at NASA was writing his obituary, Justin gays. You know, I, I don't know that for sure. I think you know one fascinating thing about Neil and his colleagues was just how close to death they lived their lives and seemed willing to live their lives, and it's also not a conversation that's unique to test pilots are astronauts, you know, it's something that families all over the country and all over the world conversations that they sometimes have to have any sort of service for country often involves, at least that risk and it's something I think it's helpful to remind people of my guest is Damian Chazelle. He directed the new movie. I man and wrote interrupted LA La Land and whiplash. We'll talk more after a break and we'll hear from Adam Cohen who's the son of Leonard Cohen. Adam wrote the forward to a new collection of his father's previously unpublished poems lyrics notebook entries and drawings called the flame. I'm Terry gross, and this is fresh air weekend support for this podcast and the following message come from each raid. Are you ready to make move. With your money invest with each raid and you'll see how simple investing can be no matter your level of experience. Each rates. Easy to use platform keeps you in the know about your money every step of the way, but it's not just their platform that sets them apart. Each rate has the people to offer guidance and support to make your money work hard for you for more information, visit each raid dot com. Slash NPR each rate, securities, LLC member FINRA as IPC. I'm Terry gross back with Damian Chazelle. He wrote and directed whiplash and LA La Land, and he directed the new film. I man starring Ryan Gosling is Neil Armstrong. And you mentioned you had the chance to talk with Janet Armstrong who was Neil Armstrong's wife? They were married, I think for thirty six years and then divorced. What were some of the things you learn from her that help you understand what she and she's portrayed by clear Foy and what Armstrong we're going through during. In this period in the sixties when he was an astronaut? Well, one thing I think that Neil Janet had in common was this ability to put on a face in moments of incredible upheaval. You know, it was something in their character. This sort of, you know, mid western kind of grit that they had that also was very much a product of of of their time and their culture that was just able to do the impossible without complaint. And you know, I really got a vivid sense of that when talking to Janet, you know, I, I would ask her things like, you know, well, how did you? How did you do this? How did you? How did you feel when you know you're, you're, you're moving from place to place to say, you're moving from juniper Hills, California, where when they first moved there for Neil to be a test pilot, the x fifteen, he's working incredibly dangerous job. They're living in a cabin with no running water, no electricity. And in the middle of nowhere, then they moved to Houston after, you know, after suffering a grievous loss as a family. And you know, again, Neil is working at dangerous job and and away eighty percent of the time and who knows if you'll ever return. I mean, just, you know how, how did you cope? And and she would several times just look at me and almost with a shrug say, well, sink or swim, that really stuck with me just that it was as simple as that in a way. But of course, complicated is that, and you know, so she vividly remembered. So many of, you know, the kind of day by day activities and instances that we depict in the movie, and a lot of it was even down to, you know, lines of dialogue to quite emotional moments in the movie. For example, when when Janet, you know, late in the film insists to her husband that he sit down and tell his kids before he goes off on his moon, mission sits down and tells them that he may not return them do that in real life. Yeah, yeah, the this, this all human law. This was is already recorded in Jimmy Johnson's book beginning to actually talk with her about it, and you know, talk through what that conversation actually was and then what the ensuing dinner table conversation actually was. I mean, a lot of that scene in the movies taken for beta from what she recollected from what her son's Rick and Mark were incredibly helpful through the whole process of the movie recollected senior talking about and apparently in real life to Neil Armstrong, didn't really want to have that conversation with his son saying, I might not make it back, but she demanded that he has to do it in that she wasn't going to do it. He has, Yup. Do that. And he does, but in this incredible like low key way without really without really showing the motion. Yeah. I mean, I think for Neil in particular, but it applies to both of them in order to, you know, the only way you get through something like a mission like that, or you know, for example, through some of the losses that they experienced as a family, the only way you can get through or at least the only way they felt they could get through was by trying as hard as possible to hold those emotions in check. But that's sometimes a difficult thing to do, you know. And I think I think Neil in the movie and I think you know, I in real life to a certain extent with someone who I think was more frayed of engaging with those emotions and and actually sitting down and facing them and talking to people about them than he was hurling himself through the atmosphere and flying into the void of space. You know, he, he, he was a man without any fear. They were a married couple without any fear except for the sort of deep gnawing fear that I think they constantly had to deal with day by day on the ground. I want to ask you about the music that Neil Armstrong plays on the moon. And I think this is the music he actually brought with him to play after the space landing on my right about that. This is music. He plays on the way to the moon, I think, is what you're referring to on the way to the moon. Yes, yes. So it's, it's a less Baxter piece called lunar rhapsody. And what I find really interesting about this is that you know, this comes under the category about of genre that's been described as exotica, but you know, this track has. It has like if I may describe it this way with all due respect in hill Armstrong, like Hollywood style, celestial voices therapa in this incredibly like florid piano, it's it's like in my opinion. And again, with all due respect, it's pretty schlocky and having their kind of transcendent experience of like being on your way to the moon and playing really corny. Crony version of what you know lunar might be. It just strikes me as so. Is this strange? I, I somebody I know how interested you are in music and how like you play music. So how did it strike you. I was I was fascinated by it. You know, it was another surprise among many, you know that I've learned about when learning about Neil. It was actually thing that Ryan himself had stumbled on. You mentioned in Japan since book that Neil liked this track, and I think it was interesting about it is, you know, it's not just that the track itself is so florid or you know, or so little known. There were also more famous tracks music that that Neil and some the other astronauts play during the course of their mission. They played a piece from by divorce shock and and whatnot. But this, you know, strange, little less Baxter tune was something that was actually the Neel and Janet listened to together that they loved together when they were young and in love and in college. So to me, what was interesting was that someone in space, and as I learned someone who was, you know, who is having going through a tough time on a family level in a marriage level. Would kind of unexpectedly play this track that really, no one listening, no one emission control. Certainly, no one in the world overhearing would have any real connection to, except for the person he loved, except for Janet that actually have found really moving and felt like another way of of tying earth to the moon, you know, time space and and the sort of cosmos to, you know, those intimate behind closed doors moments between husband and wife. Why don't we hear a little bit of the record that we've been talking about which is called lunar, rhapsody. That's Luna. Rhapsody, which Neil Armstrong played on the way to the moon and it's used in the new movie. I man, which is directed by my guest inches l. who also directed LA La Land and to and also wrote and directed whiplash inches. Thank you so much for talking with us. It's been great to have you back on our show and congratulations on so nice to be back. Thanks for having me. Inches l. directed the new movie. I man and won an Oscar for directing law land. My next guest is Adam Cohen the son of Leonard Cohen. When Leonard Cohen died two years ago at the age of eighty two, he left behind many unpublished writings. Some of his unpublished poems lyrics, notebook entries, and drawings are collected in the new book. The flame Adam Cohen wrote the Ford at also produced. The album is father recorded shortly before his death called you on a darker Adam is a singer and songwriter whose album like a man when gold and Canada in twenty twelve. He was born in Montreal in nineteen seventy-two Adams going to talk with us about Leonard Cohen as a writer, performer and father, and tell us about working closely with his father in the final year of his life. Leonard Cohen's lyrics have depth few songwriters have achieved reflecting reverence and despair. His attraction to beauty and his knowledge of broken this lyrics and form by his Judaism. His practice of then Buddhism and his doubt some of his many well, known songs include Suzanne so long, Marianne, famous blue raincoat, Chelsea hotel. Number two, everybody knows tower of song. I'm your man. And of course his best known was frequently recorded and performed song. Hallelujah, Adam Cohen, welcome to fresh air. I just want to start by saying, I love your father's music. I left his writing and I feel privileged to have had the chance to hear him in concert and to talk with him on our show, and I'm grateful for the chance to talk with you today. Thank you for being here. When I interviewed her father in two thousand six after the publication of a book of his poems and songs, he asked to read a poem that he'd just written that hadn't yet been published, but it's now published in this new book the flame. So I thought it would be a perfect way to start with your father's reading of that poem a street from our two thousand six interview are used to be your favorite drunk. Good for one more laugh. Then we both ran outta luck and luck with all. We had you put on a uniform to fight the civil War. I tried to join, but no one like the side I'm fighting for. So let's drink to win. It's over and let drink to when we meet. I'll be waiting on this corner where there used to be a street. It wasn't all that easy when you up in walked away. But all the that little story for another rainy day high know your burdens heavy as you will it through the night. The guru says it's empty, but that doesn't mean it's light so that strength to win it's over and let's drink to when we meet all be standing on this corner where they used to be a street. You left me with the dishes and a baby in the bath and your tight with the militias and you where their their camouflaged will. I guess that makes us equal, but I wanna March with you just an extra in the sequel to the old red, white and blue. So let's drink to when it's over and let's drink to when we meet all be waiting on this corner where there used to be a street. It's gonna be September now for many years to come many heart suggesting to that strict September drum. I see the ghost of culture with numbers on his wrist, salute some new conclusion that all of us have missed. So let's drink to when it's over and let's drink to when we meet. Hobie waiting on this corner where they used to be a street. Leonard Cohen, recorded on our show in two thousand six is Adam. Cone is my guess and the new posthumous collection of Leonard Cone's final poems, lyrics notebooks, and drawings is called the flame. It's just been published an includes the poem that we just heard Adam. What does it mean to you to have some much of your father's latest, you know his work he did before he died collected in this new book. I, I'm just so struck by hearing my father's voice. I seem to be listening to almost more than I ever did even when he was alive. I love his poetry. I love his words. I love the way he marshals language. I'm weary of discussing my father. I always have been, especially when you have a person who had such an inimitable way of and command of language. So I'm hesitant him. I didn't even know whether I should I. I'm not certain. I should be here speaking about him, but it's a stirring subject. And I have been enlisted I'm enlisted in the. In the campaign to let everybody know how wonderful I think he was. I wanna play the title song on the final album that was released when your father Leonard Cohn was still alive. It's called you want a darker and then we'll talk about working with him on it and this is it's what can I say? It's a great song. Out of the game. If you are the Hilo means I'm broken. If line is the glory, mine must be ashamed. You want to duck. Kills. Sect of. Five in the human frame, a million candles burning for the help that never came. You wanna darker. Ready. S. Leonard Cohen, from the final album that was released while he was alive, the title track you want darker. My guest is his son Adam Cohn who wrote the introduction to a new collection of Leonard Cone's, final poems, notebook entries, lyrics, drawings, called the flame that song so much about facing death and of having a God who allows suffering and accepting the suffering, but yet not being like happy about it or trying to make it seem like sufferings. Great. No, he's not trying to be spiritual in dismissive way of all the suffering that we endure. I, I wanna read what he wrote about you for the liner notes of this album. He wrote that without your contribution, there would be no record. He said at a certain point after over a year of intense labor, both Pat who wrote the melodies and I co incidentally broke down. With severe back injuries and other disagreeable visitations. In my case, the situation was bleak the discomfort acute and the project was abandoned. Adam sense that my recovery, if not, my survival depended on my getting back to work, he took over the project established me in a medical charity to sing and brought these unfinished songs to completion. Preserving, of course, many of pets haunting musical themes. It is because of my sons, loving and courage meant and skilled administration that these songs exist in their present form. I cannot thank. Enough. What were you able to do for him physically to make it possible for him to record the Avas he mentions you put him in a medical of chair. Can you describe the setup that that you help create for him? I think maybe the more interesting thing certainly to me would be to to just say that we were riding some kind of mysterious wind and the grace of the occasion. There was an urgency to the entire mission. And of course it had to do with his serious health issues. He was mobilized, he had multiple compression fractures of his spine and involved in incredible monastic effort on his part to to be present to deliver the way he did, but there's something about his work in general, not just on the last help him, but he invites you into your own inner life because he takes the inner life seriously. He's not like one of these contemporaries. I won't mention any names, but there are many wonderf-. Contemporaries of his who have in my estimation, become nostalgia axe their nostalgia, because there's somehow they've succumb to the temptation of going back into their older catalog and their regurgitating things. Whereas this man was speaking from the very wrong that he found himself at in life. My guest is songwriter and singer, Adam Cohen who's the son of Leonard Cohen. Adam wrote the forward to a new collection of his father's previously unpublished poems lyrics notebook entries, and drawings called the flame will talk more after a break. This is fresh air weaken support for this podcast and the following message come from TIAA TIAA supports people who are driven by purpose. Those who build others, instead of just wealth who give back and never give up whatever your purpose may be. TIAA will help you live your definition of success, whether you have five hundred dollars or five million TIAA. Will get you where you want to be with investing advice, banking and retirement planning, start today at TIAA dot org. I'm Terry gross back with Adam Cohen a songwriter and singer whose the son of Leonard Cohen. Adam has written the forward to a new collection of his late father's previously unpublished lyrics, poems notebook entries, and drawings. It's called the flame. Adam also produced the final albums father released before his death called you one at darker Leonard. Cone was very weak and in pain when he recorded it, is there song you remember from your childhood that sticks in your mind song that meant a lot to you? Maybe even a song you remember your father writing. I mean, when I was really young, I remember him composing Alleluia. You remember him writing it? Oh, yeah. I remember him being took him twelve years. No, it started. It started when I was very, very young had here versus I think eighty four verses to that song. I remember coming down to the kitchen table and he was there with a Nyland string guitar in his underwear, and they're always be versus to consult. And I remember even being invited to sing with a group of people in New York City when he was recording the song for his own help them, which by the way, Sony time didn't wanna put out. Mazing an amazing turn of events to have this man's popularity have grown. You know, he lived in kind of conic anonymity by those two. If you buy that unlikely union and two grown in popularity so much at the end of his life and for to get back to your question for me to have set on the side of the stage, you know, watching my old man at five years old and all the way up to into my forties. The whole canon of his work is his living inside of me is playing in my head is triggered by conversation. So for Hallelujah, as you say, there were eighty four of versus think he ever recorded all eighty four, but did it take twelve years and eighty four verses before he considered it completed because of dissatisfaction with versus that he'd previously written or because the still so much wanted to say in the format of that song as. The popular poem states of poem is never finished, but rather abandoned. Do you think he was frustrated working on it for so long or that it was satisfying? I think frustration was expected. The success of being able to let it go was, was the unexpected. You know, I think he has as very vocational from the earliest days he would wake up earlier than anybody new to black pages and and gave up an enormous amount or what he would refer to his compromise enormous amount. Go back to that song came so far for beauty left so much behind my patience and my family. My masterpiece unsigned. You know, you quote the, you know, some people subscribed to to the philosophy. I thought best thought, and that's often attributed to one of the beat writers. But your father believed last thought best thought. Yeah, he he edited. I take it. He edited his songs a lot. He went through a lot of drafts. It was a constant process of filtration and refinement for certain. So what? Why don't we hear? Hallelujah, you fathers version. Sure. This is this is Leonard. The more there's a moratorium on that song, you know, in my family. So. Transgression. Yeah, refrain please refrain from playing Hallelujah because. Oh, I think he felt like it was going to cause Leonard Cohen, fatigue or something, you know, or give give some other songs chance to get played? It was. It was partly joke in partly his own exhaustion. I think with with the song. In spite of the moratorium your family has on. Hallelujah. I, I think we'll play at anyways. You're okay with that. God, I'm gonna report you to the bully police. Okay. They're here this morning. There was a secret core. And please the Lord, but you don't really care for music. Do. Goes. The. Fall. Maria. Strong need. Leonard Cohen, singing, Hallelujah. And my guest is Leonard cone, son, Adam, cone, and there's, he wrote the introduction to a new collection of posthumously published Leonard cone lyrics, poems notebook entries and drawings, and it's called the flame. So you know. How Louis I think like two hundred people have recorded Hallelujah, and but it didn't become well known until Jeff Buckley recorded at like maybe ten years or more after your father recorded it, which is just so strange, but it's a sign of how I think there was a period of years when your father's genius wasn't fully acknowledged. When you know he had the initial period of hits. And then I think people just a lot of people just kind of drifted away and then rediscovered him. And what was it like for you and for him during that period? One when I think he'd been a little bit forgotten. Yeah. I feel like my father probably felt like his whole life was characterized by that by that description that he'd did been forgotten, forgotten by the angels forgotten by the, you know, cupid forgotten by. I know that he was not satisfied. He was a seeker. I wasn't satisfied with either the position that he had for the most part in society. He wasn't happy with society self, that would bet. Deepened the conflict. He wasn't. He wasn't satisfied with the people aid chosen to be around him. He wasn't satisfied with his role as a father. He wasn't satisfied with his role as a lover and through this layer upon layer of disatisfaction, he somehow mustered an incredible buoyancy and ability to be one of the most delightful people anyone ever came across. And it wasn't with any sense of bitterness or judgment. I think he just felt like he had this shabby little life and his only solace was was the work itself. And that's what made the end of his life that more Stanishev surprising, delicious. He know this unexpected ability to to fill, you know, twenty thousand seats and in any major city in the. World. These reviews from people that were like, you know, the like they were reviewing the Sistine Chapel itself. It was accompanied by commercial success in accolades and. To see him. Take his hat off, you know, and thank the jubilant audiences one after the other, which to see a man who was genuinely surprised and delighted by the reception that he thought he was never gonna get in life. When I saw him probably in the late two, thousands, like two thousand nine. Maybe I can't remember what year it was. It was kind of like being in a church or synagogue. There was this sense of like devote the devotion of his fans to him and his devotion to the music and two things larger. And he ended it with what struck me as a benediction and forget exactly what he said. But you know to those of you who are going home, you know to your families, enjoy your families and to those of you who live alone enjoy your solitude. And I thought like people don't say that that's such a beautiful thing to say. It's a lovely way of sending people home and sending home people who are going home alone. On joy, your solitude. Yeah, me these songs. Find your in your cell. The tude lessons may the blessings actually the exact quote. As may the blessings find you and your solitude. I thought it was just beautiful. This is a man who you know all the, we had a reputation as a ladies' men. You know, he was. He had to grit his teeth at the ten thousand nights. He spent alone. He understood something about solitude. Do you feel protective of his privacy? Because in my opinion, like your father was very elliptical in his writing and a pretty private about his life. He looted to a lot of things and his songs, but never quite came out and said them in a direct way. Oh, I'm not certain. That's that's true in terms of the use of the word direct, but I will say that to speak on his behalf feels like a little bit of transgression. You have a man who has designed his life around trying to not demystify process, and his work really does speak for itself. So you know, of course, I urge people that just consulted if they're interested in it, it's it, yes, it's complete with contradictions. You know, you go from things that are actually quite directed to things that are mysterious and allusive and designed to be transcended because of it. But he was preoccupied with the the broken of things, the asymmetries of things. You know, as he says, forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything or in his most famous, Hallelujah and doesn't matter which you heard the holy or the broken holler Louis. So he was always preoccupied with the idea of the imperfection of things yet there's there's a crack and everything that's that's where the light gets in. I don't have the line exactly my fingertips. But I mean, it's the ring, the bills that still can ring. Forget you perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. So you are born in nineteen seventy-two, some of your father's most famous or already written and recorded. By the time you were born Suzanne selling Marian, hey, that's no way to say goodbye. Burn on a wire, Chelsea hotel who by fire. So did you hear this? He didn't need me. Did you hear them a lot when you were growing up? I mean, like when I was growing up, I thought about songs and singers, but it didn't think about songwriters just thought about like, what's the song and who's singing it, but but you are you. Your father was a song writer. Seamless have had an awareness that songwriting was a craft that something people actually did, and you must like grown up with these songs. I don't know if he played them around the house. I don't know if you even heard them when you were. You know, of course it heard them. Yeah, I was a five year old on the side of stages. Watching them being performed, of course, can't into the looking at the faces of of audiences, you know in in different times and places, and I was a deep, deep admirer of the melodies of at first, you know, as a child, just the melodies the generosity of the melodies. And then as grew older, there was the complexities in the beautiful marshalling of language. How old were you when you're. Separated. Five, six. I'm not the door member. So how much did you get to see your father after the. I'm in a relationship now and the imperfection of a union between two people has been demonstrated to me in vivid colors and dimensions, and the fact that my father was able to stay in his children's life despite those complications. And then some was remarkable is remarkable to me. My mother moved my sister and I have to across the world many occasions and not just to get away from him. In fact not to get away from him at all, which is to follow her own whims. And my father would often even parka caravan. I'm at the end of a dirt road just to be near us. He he's always been part of our lives. It always he always maintained a role in in our lives. Despite my parents separation. Caravan is like a mobile home. Oh yeah. The like, what do you call those? Like a jet stream kind of thing? Yeah. I remember my mother moved my sister and I all the way to the south of France where we lived and those long dirt road and he bought when he sort of caravan Jetstream type things, put it the at the t. where the road met the dirt road and he just lived there. My mother did want him on the property. So you know, every day after school bus would drop us off and we'd see dad and his caravan. Well, he did that in variations of that Trump tire life. And then you know, as I say, they could the the intent to be part of his children's live the deliberateness with which he contorted his own life and scheduled to to make sure that he was present in our lives was a feat. There's something really terrible that happened to him than in its own way as maybe responsible for the revival of his career and for his reconnection to people around the world. And that's that he had an accountant or a business manager who like drain your father savings and sold the publishing rights to your father saw that's kinda like stealing his soul to sell all the publishing rights to his songs. I mean, that's just seems like such a transgression in, like, I think your sister who discovered that it happened like if other didn't even know. Yeah, you know. As he often joked, it is hilarious that he thought he could resolve his economic woes with song and poetry and incredible the that were the canon of his work with his devotion to blackening pages and melody that that he built the life he built for himself. And when he experienced this, this episode that you're referring to, it actually did compel him back out of retirement back onto the road. And that is what was part of what I referred to as the most sort of joyous unexpected episode of his life which was to to discover that all this time absence had made the heart grow fonder who knew he'd always benefited from this kind of icon status. You know, people at Kurt Cobain and and others, you know would quote him and, but it didn't result in the kind of massive. Field and lo and behold, from this economic crisis arose this most unexpected and. Festive of periods in his life, say festive. I mean, it was incredible to see the. The amount of universities that suddenly started teaching his works studying his works or even whole rabbinical clan. Adopting his lyric says liturgy, Madison Square Garden and the oh to twenty thousand seaters Sedley being filled aid never sold more than six thousand tickets. So thank goodness for that economic crisis. So did he ever get the song writes back because no, it really those are gone. Adam cone. I really appreciate you doing this. I know you, you're not not very comfortable having about your father even talking about yourself in this kind of setting. So thank you again so much. Thank you so much most gracious and patient of you. Thank you. Adam Cohen wrote the forward to the flame the new collection of his father Leonard Cohen's, previously, unpublished lyrics, poems notebook entries and drawings. Especially weekend is produced by recent Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer, Audrey Bentham our interviews and reviews produced an edited by any salad, Phyllis, Myers, Roberta, shorrock San brigger, Lauren, crendall, Heidi, Simone moods. Eighty thea Challenor and Seth, Kelly. Molly seavy nesper is our associate producer of digital media. I'm Terry gross. Dance me. With a burning.