39 Burst results for "Afghanistan"
Fresh update on "afghanistan" discussed on Mentors for Military Podcast
"Let's get warm. So we ended up doing that and then That was kind of cool because. We we'd be sitting around the fire. And you know ready sat around fire. You've got flames coming up right well now we're dropping all this munitions. And some of them were dropping pretty close to ourselves and the over pressure. You would see the flame. I mean the lame of fires appear all the sudden. That flame would go. And then come back. Over Oh yeah, then there's Times that you're sitting there at night. We're dropping munitions and you just hear. Teen. Piece. I mean just debris is falling all around Yeah, it's a wonder we didn't end up getting hit by something enemy, just chunk of metal. That were displaying all replacement. That's how close we were we were. A lot of these guys dropping stuff on them TAT's CRESA. Guys! In marked yourself with the fire like you're talking about I thought you were going to say that things got pretty here. either. At one point you know with with you guys having a very setup just like they did the enemy with a bar. Yeah, that would have been screwed up. Yeah Luckily we were. Near, the only warmed up there somebody else's draft than anyone else so because they couldn't mistaken. When you ended up going in, Dera, were you guys one of the teams that went in? To the caves and everything and check things out after all the. We would intercept like we came across a few caves as we cleared through the mountains because we cleared through. It's basically you're on a path I mean they're the beaten paths and you're moving along these paths and you know we're dropping munitions on the forward of on the different ranges, and then we're moving through and going through some of the carnage that we're seeing. and then you'd come across. You know some of the caves and we'd go in and clean but they. You know they were never came across anything. That was crazy elaborate. You know what I mean it was it was elaborate in. You know this this hard ground in your life how to carve this audit. You know the way that they did carve into the mountains. You can tell the I mean they'd fought there for years and years. They knew what they were doing, but they come in and there would be a turn at the. To protect, so it wasn't if something blew up outside the entrance. FRAG was going into a wall. Doesn't you know coming into where they were staying? I mean they had stoves in some of them, so they were still able to camouflage some of that he smoke the way that they were camouflaging. Even there would piles to be able to burn and cook and do things I mean it was. It was pretty elaborate. Then you tell that they lived and survived up. There you know for a long time, yeah? About like you, said all the fighting against the Soviets and stuff in that area I mean they just constantly got pounded by them and was fighting, and so they They really knew how to dig in Yeah so this time frame I mean. What were some of the things that you guys really took away as the lessons learned? You know it's. More forced. We're forced to do this. A Lot. Nowadays is work with that indigenous force. You know early on Iraq. We were pretty much on our own. We did our thing and you know We didn't have any indigenous force that we had to work with, but as the years went on we, we had to integrate more and more and more, you know once you get into an area in and you start to help them restabilise their government and their military. Then you have to start integrating them. Afghanistan when we were up there in Torah I mean we had to do that from the start you know we had. We had different guides with us. We didn't know that mountain range and back then the technology is as good as we had it. We still didn't you know have a lot of good satellite imagery and really know where we were going to we relying on those guys and have them to work with them, but it was. You know it's it's tricky and and I think anywhere. We go in the world today it's it's a leadership challenge for all of our military. When we're working with those guys because you, you have to give them trust. You have to build that rapport, but you always in the back of your mind you. You know you have to be switched on and stay switched on because you don't know what they're gonNA do. You know. I mean I would say it's something that's forced on our military. Now. The guys that are in you know you're going to have to work with the indigenous force but just always have your head on a swivel. You know, be always watch your back. You know have a plan. I have a backup plan but you have to. You have to let your guard down to a point that you have to build that rapport you, do they they? They feel the same way, too, so you have to get some trust going in there and. Take some time to to learn some of their language in and you know, hang out with them a little bit, and it goes a long way it really does you know some of the guys that we had been able to incorporate them into different things that we did and and let them see some of the stuff that we had or even give them little things. You know a lot of them. They didn't have anything. Really nothing at all, so you know given them a warm piece of gear. You know peace cold gear. You know giving them something they I mean. They cherished it into them. It was gold you know, and then they'd have your back. You know in in different situations you know. was there something that you took away from this particular mission? As you started going forward? You know with one of the first ones against this enemy. Yeah, it was i. mean the whole thing was a was a big learning experience for me. you know it, it's. I had I had only then there now. Well, I was. I was right out about a year. you know in the unit? When this? When this all happened, so I was still very new. And everything that we did was was a big learning experience, and in it for a lot of guys. It was because you know if you think about it. I mean we had been in Bosnia. Presence in Bosnia and everything going on over there, but this was this was totally new. You know as even as we left Bogra and started driving to Jalalabad and started heading that way 'cause we drove there. We've fly there. We drove You Know Ten plus hours drove across the country and. It was it was hairy at times because you don't you know it's, it's the. It's the wild wild west out there. You didn't know who you know who to trust. You'd come through checkpoints and all you see..
Pete Buttigieg on Joe Biden's New Economic Recovery Plan
"Comes a covert nine tain. Of doing nothing other than predicting virus would disappear or maybe the drank bleach. You may be okay. Trump is simply given up. He's waved the white flag. He's walked away. This failures come with the terrible human cost. And deep economic toll. Time and again working families are paying the price. For this administration's incompetence. There's no other way to say it then incompetence. Speech at a factory in Pennsylvania today, the former vice president of rolled out his seven hundred billion dollar economic recovery plan today. He outlined his build back better plan near his hometown of Scranton Jr also happens to be a battleground state Biden's pitch comes as another one point, three million Americans filed for unemployment just last week as the pandemic continues as he said to take its toll for more, we welcome to our broadcast people to judge author veteran former mayor of South Bend Indiana, and of course, former Democratic presidential candidate. Thank you for coming on Mr Mayor and when you think about it. Infrastructure was always lying out there. Available to this president. It was a layup shot. It was an open net. All He'd had to do was name as he could have put his name on all those your tax dollars at work signs on the interstates. All he had to do was funded Joe Biden today gave it. A name pledged to fund it with fifty million Americans out of work. It's probably a good idea. No. Absolutely Joe Biden's put forward plan to make sure we're investing in American competitiveness investing in American manufacturing, which will do a lot of good in my part of the country, investing workers, research and development, and you're right, you know infrastructure is one of those things that. Frankly I. think mayors on both sides of the aisle. This president might actually deliver since it's very popular good for the economy. We need to do but. Even, this basic idea a. UPGRADING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE DONALD TRUMP campaign don. Didn't bother to actually do it. Joe Biden will because I think he understands the importance of a tour on. It's been something that's needed attention for some time, but now with our economy in shambles. It's also an opportunity to get people back to work. I want to play for you. Something this is. Telephone interview tonight, Sean Hannity Donald. Trump is how donald trump went after Joe Biden today. And he walks onto the stage wearing this massive mask. There's nobody on the stage, and then he takes off. He likes to have it hanging off usually the left ear I think it makes them feel good, frankly if you WanNa know the truth, and I guess that's okay, but you know when there's nobody around a. you don't really have to do that, but he feels. It's good and I'm okay with it if he wants to do that. He's got the largest basket. I think I've ever seen. It covers up you'll. You'll be wearing a mask to walk. feels. He looks good that way. So Mr Mayor? If he's GonNa litigated mask wearing masks size. What ear he hangs it off of in the midst of pandemic with fifty million out of work I'm assuming side. We'll take that fight. We Will Americans are dying is not a fight that we asked for, but and look nothing about district be political or partisan, listening to doctors should not be a partisan issue, and if you look at among the people, most Americans, trust medical scientists way more than they trust. Donald Trump but unfortunately a lot of his political protectors are allowing this to turn into a culture. Joe Biden wore a mask because he's setting an example about how to save lives, because that's what presidents did, and you know in addition to the bad policies in addition to the incompetent management I think the thing that's costing the American people most right now is. We don't have a president who has any? Any concept of the importance to setting an example of calling the American people who are highest valleys i. that's what Joe Biden was talking about from day one back when we were competing for the nomination, where his campaign was built on the left of the soul of the nation of battle, now underway the nation I think the reason you see our party united and a lot of independence in an increasing number of what I like to call future. Former Republicans all coming together to say that we want to lecture by the defeat. Trump is that you don't have to be a die hard rock real down crash to see that we need a better example set by the American presidency. Must be an interesting time for you as a veteran. You've got senator. Duckworth getting called a coward who hates America by a cable news host? You have lieutenant. Colonel Veneman men, putting in his paperwork. And you have this story of bounties being paid by Russia and Russia's President American lives of your brothers and sisters in uniform in Afghanistan and the Defense Secretary for one is a voice. We could probably use to hear right about now you agree. Do and I think that we need answered quickly about exactly what the president did not only his shocking inaction in the time, leading up to the story, came out his silence and inaction about the issue since. Ever, since the story is broken, I've been hearing from friends that I served with and look. This adds up to pack whether it's the way they talk about Senator Doctors who gave? More, to this country. Than just about any critics. Whether, it's the fact that a another were here. Colonel has career derailed fleet. Or the failure to protect troops abroad. It's clear that this administration has no respect for the military, and as one of the reasons why members of the military are looking for different. I think that represents a historic opportunity for my party. Keep reaching out again. It shouldn't be a cars an issue, the shooting way beyond politics, but right now we've got a very clear choice between somebody like Vice President Biden, who whose families military family whose son served. As somebody like Donald Trump, who's you know? Origins include going out of his way to avoid certain taking advantage of his millionaire connections to do it. As young man always rooted today where he just clearly doesn't care about protecting American troops, things like what we've learned that Russia to do. People judge, thank you very much for coming on great to have you on the broadcast tonight. Appreciate it
Fresh update on "afghanistan" discussed on Sean Hannity
"49 Pascoe NEWS Radio Wofl a 99.1 FM working on military spending plan I'm Rich Dennison Fox News. The House is working on a defense spending bill that includes some contentious items. The $695 billion bill would block the Trump Administration from using Pentagon funds to build a wall on the southern border. House Appropriations Defense subcommittee chair Pete Visclosky calls the Defense Department's diversions of money, habitual abuses of power, but I do want to express my upset with how these actions have irreparably damaged the department's credibility with the committee. The legislation also provides a $1,000,000 for army installations to change. Confederate names. President Trump has threatened to veto any measure that changes the names of military bases boxes. Rachel Sutherland in Washington. Ah federal Death row inmate was executed this morning after the Supreme Court ruled against objections filed it by his victims. Relatives Daniel Lee was put to death by lethal injection at a federal facility in Terra Haute, Indiana. It was the first federal execution in 17 years. At least five U. S. Military bases have been closed in Afghanistan, part of an agreement between the Trump Administration and the Taliban. President from special on Board of the talks made the announcement on Twitter 135 days after US sign the deal in Doha to large US bases located outside Kabul and another in southern Afghanistan will remain open 8600 U. S. Troops remain in Afghanistan, down from a high of over 100,020 10. Over 2400 Americans have been killed there since US military involvement began in 2000 won despite a pledge to reduce violence. The Afghan government says the Taliban have increased their attacks in recent weeks. Lucas Tomlinson at the Pentagon Vice President Mike Pence. It's in Louisiana today, meeting with Governor John Bel Edwards and other officials to discuss the state's pandemic response. Republican State Attorney General Jeff Landry won't be in today's meeting. He's in quarantine after testing positive for covert 19 America is listening to Fox News. From the Maas, Nissan Traffic.
House holds hearing on Russian bounty intelligence reports
"Officials before a House panel over reports Russia paid Afghan militants to kill U. S Service members in Afghanistan. General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and Defense secretary, Mark Esper, say they have not seen corroborated intelligence that Russia offered bounties to the Taliban for the debts of U. S service members. Congressman. To the best of my recollection. I have not received a briefing that included the word bounty versus intelligence assessments, alleging the Russian bounties was not produced by a Defense Department agency. The top Pentagon officials also told the House Armed Services Committee, there's no evidence payments led to the deaths of service members. Karen Alford,
Fresh update on "afghanistan" discussed on Michael Savage
"Filed by his victims, relatives Daniel Lee was put to death by lethal injection at a federal facility in Terra Haute, Indiana. It was the first federal execution in 17 years. At least five U. S. Military bases have been closed in Afghanistan. Part of an agreement between the Trump Administration and the Taliban. President from special on Board of the talks made the announcement on Twitter 135 days after US sign the deal in Doha to large U. S bases located outside Kabul and another in southern Afghanistan will remain open 8600 U. S troops remain in Afghanistan, down from a high of over 100,020 10. Over 2400 Americans have been killed there since US military involvement began in 2000 won despite a pledge to reduce violence. The Afghan government says the Taliban have increased their attacks in recent weeks. Fox's Lucas Tomlinson at the Pentagon Vice President Mike Pence's in Louisiana today meeting with Governor John Bel Edwards and other officials to discuss the state's pandemic response. Republican State Attorney General Jeff Landry won't be it today's meeting. He's in quarantine. After testing positive for covert 19 America is listening to Fox News. This is a paid advertisement for legal services sponsored by Attorney Andrew Van Arsdale. SAN Diego, California ATTENTION Boy Scouts of America sexual.
Muscling up to China and 25 years since Srebrenica
"Tom Switzer, he and welcome to another episode off between the lines now today on the program will be commemorating the twenty fifth anniversary of Europe's worst massacre since the Holocaust in ninety, ninety, five more than eight thousand people died in Shrimp Nitsa. The town was supposed to be a U N protected safe haven in the vicious civil war that tore Yugoslav apart instead the civilians ended up being massacred by Bosnian Serbs. Were lightning fast with their superior weapons. They easily overran the lightly. I'm Bosnian government troops and the token full civilian peacekeepers. The UN's Valley to protect the civilians inspired Washington to launch unilateral action against Serbia and end the civil war. Would things be the same today now? That's later in the program, but first defense. Last week the Morrison. Government launched a defence strategy and force structure review now the move signals a major shift away from the strategy outlined in the last defence white paper. Remember that just four years ago in two thousand sixteen. It plotted out Australia's strategic costs for the next decade. But that White Paper has as we know been rapidly overtaken by Vince covert China or that now the new review has promised two hundred and seventy billion dollars over the next decade to enhance Australia's defence capabilities with renewed focus on areas like Saba and spice capabilities and the possible development of hop sonic weapons will be fitting aircraft with long-range anti-ship missiles, increasing underwater surveillance and boosting fuel ammunitions reserves. Now, underscoring the seriousness of the shift, the Prime Minister even drew comparisons to the nineteen thirties and the lead up to world. War Two that period of the nineteen thirties. Is Been Something I've been revisiting on a very regular basis and when you connect by the economic challenges and the global uncertainty. It can be very haunting, but is the money too much or not enough is going to all the right places, and we'll do enough to safeguard Australia from China's increasing assertiveness and is rapidly growing military capabilities. What's the role of Australia's diplomacy? And all of this will joining me to discuss this at three distinguished guests. By skill is professor of Asia Pacific Security Studies at Macquarie University Holiday Bites. Thank you good to be here Melissa Conley. Tar is a research fellow at the Asia Institute at the University of Melbourne. Hi There Melissa could to speak again Tom. And Pay. The Jennings is executive director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. Tom No. Can you talk us through the top of scenarios and potential conflicts that the defense review is preparing us for the scenario that the review is focusing on is one involving a high end conventional conflict, so I've gone to the days of stabilization operations in t more Counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan This document is preparing foresight on onsite conflict. Involving countries that have sophisticated military forces. And, of course, the document doesn't say. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect it to say. That China is the problem. But let me tell you China is the problem that is the now neoplasia competitive that way of thinking about when we think about what's adequate in terms of the topic of military capability we need to have. and to does reflect to change. From past years Tom I recall when I started by defense career, we were thinking much more about the risks presented by Indonesia, and the so called low level in cushions in the northwest. Of course, that's no longer features in anyone's strategic thinking. Really it's about China and the risks that the People's Republic is presenting to all of its neighbors in abroad since in the Indo Pacific region and beyond I cabinet crudely putting it some sites laying the groundwork for fortress Australia US sign. This is preparing us to join a potential use LID. Containment slash war against China for example to protect Taiwan Peter Jennings. I think that is it covers a spectrum of possibilities. One possibility which I think is Epson you were in terms of language of the document is that we might conceivably end up having to face military conflict without being able to rely on the direct combat support of the United States, and that's what leads to discussions around extra stockpiling munitions and fuel insightful. But I think in general terms. Yes, the expectation is that Australia. Through its history has been a country that forms coalitions usually have like minded partners, the share the same types of objectives. And the the plan will design the Defense Force. Really gives us the capacity to do that with Rachel Ellis lecture, example, Japan but also with our traditional ally the United States okay bates skill. You've recently completed a review of China's defense capabilities and its recent military modernization, specifically looking at the implications for Australia Wind you expect the Peo- The People's Liberation Army and its navy. When do you expect them to have the capability to project power as far as Australia annual Pacific knives, well in many respects Tom, they already can I mean they have the long range missile capabilities to do that? Know as a from a standoff position launched from their own from their own homeland against hours. But what I think, the the new strategy is looking at is really the development of capability over the next ten fifteen twenty years, and that's by the Chinese own own acknowledged calendar that they would be able to by that time of mass, a large enough capability, both in terms of its long range strike, you know striking from their own homeland, but also bill to project. Project Power passed the so-called first and second island change and being a position to more directly threatened through those platforms Australian security. So you know we're talking ten or fifteen year window here and I think given the time it does take to try and respond to develop the the deterrent and defense capabilities for Australia. That's that's you know that's in some ways a short window. for Australia to be mobilizing in reaction Melissa Tali. What's the role of a strong diplomacy and all these well I think it needs to be growl. And one of the concerns when we look at the deteriorating strategic environment is we think all that's a defense problem? And so when the prime minister launches the strategic update with those comparisons with the nineteen thirties. It pushes US toward seeing in purely military terms but we don't just want to say things in that security lands, we want to think about all of the parts about national power projection, so that's diplomacy and development as well as defense I think if if people thought about it I think what we invest in all three strongly, but that's not where it is if you look at federal budget fifty. Fifty nine billion to defense and less than seven billion to diplomacy and development together the lowest point with ahead in our history and I think we missing that opportunity. If we don't take US seriously, the way that diplomacy and development can shape things in the world so I was struck. Today was a defendant looking at the latest poll on what are the major concerns that Australians have at the moment of the top threats in the world and the first five, a role nontraditional that drought, environment, disaster, climate change, pandemics, and downtown, global economy, and those places where you know military spending isn't going to help shape that environment. So we need to have an effect on those. We need to be thinking much more about what we can do in the diplomacy and development to mind Peter Jennings. What would you say in to Melissa's observations? Because they reflect a certain mindset that that perhaps we should be focused more on non state actors rather than say China for instance well, I think all of these you know threats that have to be taken seriously. I'm and simply because we're living in the middle of a pandemic for example, doesn't the climate change is gone away in this no longer going to present a problem to us. I guess what I'd say. Is that the you know the five things Melissa listed? That were in the featured in the low e Poland terms of popular concerns. Are also the things which could. In different ways late to the risks of conflict escalating in the Indo Pacific region generally so You know my my view, please while I would like to see spending on diplomacy increased. While I. Say Development Assistance is being something which is effectively the United soft in of Australian power, and the military is the hot end of Australian power. I think. The message against all of these areas is that we have just been underinvesting for decades underinvesting for decades, so we're we're all. High fiving ourselves at just reaching about two percent of gross national product, being spent on defense, but that is compared to what we spending in cold or years, which was sometimes between three and a half percent in four percent of rustic product. So what we have grown used to Tom I would say is. Free written on the United. States code tiles of security for for decades. We've dramatically under. Invested in the things that we need to do to strengthen Australia's position, not just militarily, but also diplomat. A now. We're rather surprised to hear the news that Gosh the bill is a lot more expensive than we really thought. It was only if you've got that confidence in the US. and. In fact, the whole trump stories, the story of the Americans really big being fed up with the rest of the world, thinking that the US can fund the bill for their security, so we're going to have to do more and I think we're going to have to do it against multiplicity of areas not. Justin sought the defense organization. We'll some scholars such as you want and James Current from the University of Sydney. They say that this document sounds a lot like an acknowledgement that the US might not always be there to help us out. By are we starting to plan for more independent Australian defense posture I think it would be a wise move to keep that option open when you think of the capabilities that the Chinese developing in which do have a direct pose a direct threat to Australia or could do so. In many respects, the I think the types of threats that you might not expect an immediate or even timely response on the part of the United States what I'm thinking here. Cyber capabilities is a huge priority for the Chinese. We already know what they see the sort of capability. They can wield against Australia and that's not the sort of thing you can expect a kind of cavalry to. Lead the charge from from Washington to come to Australia's defence slowly long range strike capability on the part of the Chinese capability. They already have in which are going to continue to develop. which could threaten Australia down the road now? These are capabilities that I think that Australia's going to have to develop their own defenses for. They can certainly do that with United States, but again it's not necessarily the sort of threat that we would expect some sort of traditional ally joint response not to make it well. Some of are in listeners will email me and they'll say that if Uncle Sam struggles to police. It's own CDs. Melissa. How on Earth Can Uncle Sam Police? The Asia Pacific region in the face of a rising China. What's your sense about us staying power in the next decade or two in look? It's difficult One of the things that strategic update looks at is more threats to the global rules order, and unfortunately the you know, the US is part of that. the US is not along with the strategies interest on things like global trading system, and a number of international issues like global health where we would say you need to be supporting. A Global Response that said I don't think the strategic update will be read negatively in. Washington, it's my guess. it very clearly couched in terms that I think the US will lock about Australia contributing more and having more self. that could be seen as a statement that we think that the US might not have outback, but can also be seen as something that the US has been for for a long time. I particularly liked a few elements of the update things like making sure that we have. You know material ammunition You know that aren't going to be disrupted. Buckle supply trying having more capability eight industrial cut suffering capability here antiques fuel reserves, which is not as long sane as an issue for us, so I mean those are things that are worth investing in. Regardless of US resolve because as we've seen from COVID, we know that supply chain can be disrupted very quickly and easily, and it's worth having eligibilities. Cepeda Jennings bite skill and Melissa Conley Toilet and Melissa. The Pacific step up last year. That realigned Australia's development budget to deal with some of the strategic challenges posed by China in the Pacific Do you think it goes far enough? The step up was followed recently by strategies new International Development Policy Partnerships for recovery, and that's made it very clear that strategies focus should be on the Pacific and also southeast. Asia including. Indonesia and team August. I think that has a very clear statement about what we want. In the region of being entrusted trusted development partner and influencing those societies that we think positive for four region. Again you're going to. You're going to say you. Hear this from me all the time, but again the problem is that we not really making much invasive lunch, so partnerships for recovery head no new money it talked about the massive challenges that covered as as creating for for the for the Pacific, and for for our region broadly, and the only funding announcement was that we're going to repurpose the money. We would have spent on sending Australian. Volunteers in scholarship holders. And we're GONNA use that so I I suppose I. Feel a little bit with all the areas, not actually include district update in that as well that what we've seen through the foreign policy, White Paper and International Development Policy through to to the defense. Strategic Updike is. We talk about how. how? What a time! These these frosty leaving a contested difficult awful environment that we've now got to leave in and the Dow L. Easy Times over, and then we say, and we're not gonNA. Give any new money so I mean the defense announcement is essentially just that we're going to continue to you know, extrapolate out the money that was planned to be spent in the twenty twenty six, and we're going to extrapolate that out to twenty thirty terabytes skill. Do we risk getting into a bidding war for influence in the Pacific? I don't know if it's a risk. If it is a risk worth worth taking. I mean obviously the Pacific region is so extremely important Australia's future. Both for for defense reasons for regional engagement for diplomatic reasons, developing reasons and the like. so It's quite possible that we're entering in a more competitive phase with China in this. SITES WRIST BYTES I'm talking about more the budgetary concerns he because in the wake of the Corona Virus Crosses. There'll be serious limits on how we can spend on these things scholley. Yes, there is and party left to be be developed for that, but you know when you're talking about your own backyard. I mean I I. I don't think it's the kind of country that can simply. Pretended it's by itself getting back pay to Jennings to the region, generally in the rise of what. Angus Campbell is of the Defence Force he's talked about the rise of political warfare, the idea of grey zone warfare things like cyber attacks, economic coercion influence operations that fall below the traditional threshold of war. He says we need a whole of government response to it. I, you seeing that whole of government approach happening in Campbell, or is this Manley focus on defense and the spy agency so far Peter Jennings. It probably is focused on the national security agency's Tom. That's not too surprising because you'd expect them to sort of pick up on the risks I. But General Campbell is right. It does need to be all government is. There's a whole lot of things happening there that simply cannot and should not be done by defense organizations. and. I think that realization is slowly dawning. Along as both of the speakers have said that actually ladyship comes with cost of infrastructure is going to play that role, but you know, give you a small example of this we. We have lost the ability to broadcast into the South Pacific and Southeast Asia. In a way that we used to very successfully over over decades to give us the capacity to do that. We're probably talking about you know that. He million a year forty million a year, which sounds a lot of defend. It's nothing if you're in the Defense Department. Let me tell you. But you need to be able to do things like that. To be the truth teller in the region to actually tell the region that there are alternatives to Chinese Communist Party authoritarianism I think that's what's needed with responding to this grey zone on threat. Is Actually to be the truth teller. In this part of the will and getting our system in Cambridge used to that reality to understanding what needs to be done. To starting at different type of conversation with our region. With our own people for that matter that that is a sort of a psychological change which I can see happening, but we're not quite yet. There's a bit of work still to be done to get to that point Melissa. Conley Tyler. Is, just responding on that. I agree entirely with what pitcher saying on on broadcasting. It's a small investment, such a an increasing influence. It should be Brian and I hope that did that's being seen. I think having defense voices. I will help a lot in a banks, seriously I'm but just went. When you ask Tom Balaton host government and what's happening there? There are some really good examples, so for example win. This Pacific step pop started an office of the Pacific was established in that apartment and tried and each job. He's to be that coordinating body, and it's bringing together the. The defense, the development and the diplomacy in a way that he's gone to maximize our influence. and I've noticed this a lot more discussion about that that three. How do you bring defense development diplomacy communities together? I'm involved in initiate the Pacific. Four Day and I think a lot of people not talking about what more we can do for that that joined up coordination to make the most about national instruments by skill. You're an expert on China. The elephant in the room of course is China doing need to be careful not to overestimate China's military strength. What about the weaknesses? Exactly right I mean you have to know your enemy's weakness as well as their strengths in the case of China, they are undertaking enormous reforming organization effort. They're pouring billions of dollars into new capabilities, but there's a lot of things we need to recognize I. Mean One is that the Chinese have not fought a shooting war and more than forty years. They are have no. They have zero experience in high end combat against a serious. Adversary, scenario, so that's not to downplay them, but to understand that they've got enormous obstacles to overcome that day. Themselves acknowledge that they themselves. No, they have to overcome, and that's why we had this window that we've been talking about. A fifteen to twenty years. to try and develop capabilities to get in front of the kinds of things that the Chinese want to bring to bear around. Around, twenty thirty or twenty, thirty, five, twenty, forty, paid-up Melissa to be continued. Thanks so much for being on our in. Thank you, tell my pleasure. Thank you, Tom. That was paid jennings. He's executive director of the Australian strategic pulsing suit by skill professor of Asia Pacific Security Studies at Macquarie University and Melissa Commonly Tyler. She's a research fellow at the Asia Institute at the University of Melbourne. These between the lines with Tom Switzer. Coming next, we're going to replay a version of a segment from between the lines. I 'cause commemorating the massacre of Bosnian Muslims at shredded Nitsa on the eleventh of July nodding ninety. Five twenty five years ago this week. More than eight thousand people were killed by Serb forces. It was the worst massacre. Europe had seen since the Holocaust. Serve softening up Trevor Nature for the army's final push into the town. Town of course was supposed to be a safe haven protected by the United Nations, but the civilians ended up being sitting ducks as I woke Larry. Hollingsworth Remembers I. Myself Feel Devastated and ashamed I was there with them? When we told them that it was a safe haven I watched. Many of these people walk in with the minimal possessions into shreds, knowing that it was a safe haven, and now they're fleeing out because we've let them down, let them down to the extent that within dies. About Twenty three thousand women and children were deported, and about eight thousand Muslim men and boys left behind where executed and buried in mass graves. Now, reports from the time described, frightening scenes stiffen overawed from medicines on frontier. Speaking he. Loading some of the children and women into buses, but there's no indication as to where it was buses, going with seen some horrifying streaming, going on women and children going into the buses being taken away from their family This was going on with a lot of crying a lot of panicking. The slaughter had been planned carefully and executed with precision. All the wall Dutch. Pace is literally stood by, and did nothing indeed even when the Serb assault on Srebrenica was imminent. in-command is still rejected Kohl's racetracks. Positions. Pope John Paul. The second declared ribbon Nitsa a defeat for civilization as media reports begins to reveal the scale of the unfolding tragedy. The UN says nine hundred thousand people are still unaccounted for. About some became clear as government soldiers emerging from the forest in central Bosnia, told of horrific massacres at the hands of the Serbs one young. People executing them on spot, but this didn't come out of the blue. By the time this massacre took place the civil war that tore the former Yugoslavia. Repot was heading into its fourth year. More than a million people have been displaced, and the world became familiar with a new term ethnic cleansing. So? Who is to blame for these well? Let's start with the United. Nations from ninety two to ninety, five shrivel Nitsa was the world's first union declared civilian syphon. It was supposed to to her aggression. It was supposed to aggression and set the scene for political negotiations to end hostilities between the Bosnian Serbs, and Muslims, but the UN soldiers in the SIPHONS. They were bedeviled by problems. If you declare an area safe haven in the name of the United Nations. Nations if you tell the people if they are safe in the name of the United Nations you have got to put the troops on the ground, and it's no good for politicians say yes, we go for safe havens, but we're not gonNA put the troops meanwhile the Europeans vacillated and equivocated failing miserably to cope with across at its own back door. America was also reluctant to get involved as then President George Bush senior explained in Nani Nani to. I? Something because I learned something from Vietnam. I am not going to commit US forces until I know what the mission is to the military. Tell me that it can be completed until I know how they can come out. You have ancient rivalries that have cropped up as as Yugoslavia's dissolved or getting dissolved, and it isn't going to be solved by sending in the eighty second airborne, and although on the campaign trail that Ye Bill Clinton pledged to reverse the appeasement of that bushes of Belgrade as President Clinton allowed the Balkans to bleed for three more years. French President Jacques Chirac was moved to declare quote, the position of the leader of the free world vacant. Trinite Sur changed all that having done nothing the before during the mass killings in Rwanda Clinton was galvanized into action, and crucially he cut the United Nations out of the Decision Chine on August thirty Washington led a night bombing campaign against the Serbs the NATO action began early this morning. The harsh light of fires and explosions coloring the night sky. Some people watched the bombardment from their houses, but after more than ten thousand deaths here in the last three years, most Sarajevans had given up any hope of outside intervention. Last night it came on a scale which could yet change the course of this war by the end of not ninety five sixty thousand nine hundred troops, including twenty thousand Americans were on the ground in Bosnia. Pace was declared. The BOEKEN's wars ended only because the US finally acted. He's President Clinton in November ninety five my fellow Americans in this new era there are still times when America and America alone can and should make the difference for peace. The terrible war in Bosnia is such a case nowhere. Today is the need for American leadership. More stark are more immediate than in. In Bosnia in the years since the Mexica Europe inaction was heavily criticised, and the US was held up for its global leadership in particular for its unilateral humanitarian intervention. This is when the US secretary. Of State. Madeleine Albright said America was the indispensable nation, and that idea would fade into the justification of the Iraq invasion in two thousand and three as a war of liberation, but he's a question with the US intervene. If the shrivel Nitsa massacre happened today from the standpoint of twenty twenty, we might ask if the era of US unilateral humanitarian intervention is well and truly over. Well, that's it for this week. Show remember if you'd like to hear the episode again or download segments since two thousand fourteen. Just go to ABC. Dot Net dot US slash aren and follow the prompts to between the lines, or you can listen via the ABC. Listen APP, or wherever you get your podcast. You can even subscribe, so you never miss an episode. I'm Tom Switzer continue next week.
Fresh update on "afghanistan" discussed on Dana Loesch
"Any habitual abuses of power. But I do want to express my upset with how these actions have irreparably damaged department's credibility with the committee. The legislation also provides a $1,000,000 for army installations to change Confederate names. President Trump has threatened to veto any measure that changes the names of military basis boxes. Rachel Sutherland in Washington. Ah federal Death Row inmate was executed this morning after the Supreme Court ruled against objections filed it by his victims. Relatives Daniel Lee was put to death by lethal Injection at a federal facility in Terra Haute, Indiana. It was the first federal execution in 17 years. At least five U. S. Military bases have been closed in Afghanistan, part of an agreement between the Trump Administration and the Taliban. President from special envoy to the talks made the announcement on Twitter 135 days after US sign the deal in Doha to large U. S bases located outside Kabul and another in southern Afghanistan will remain open 8600 U. S. Troops remain in Afghanistan, down from a high of over 100 1020 10. Over 2400 Americans have been killed there since US military involvement began in 2000 won despite a pledge to reduce violence. The Afghan government says the Taliban have increased their attacks in recent weeks. Fox's Lucas Tomlinson at the Pentagon Vice President Mike Pence's in Louisiana today meeting with Governor John Bel Edwards and other officials to discuss the state's pandemic response. Republican State Attorney General Jeff Landry won't be in today's meeting. He's in quarantine after testing positive for covert 19 America. Listening to Fox News. Lucky three Mobile news on the level on the go. What.
Norah ODonnell, anchor of the CBS Evening News
"Today O'Donnell joins us on skin from the couch. She is the anchor and managing editor of the CBS Evening News, making her the third woman ever to so anger, a network evening broadcasts before taking the helm of the evening news. She was the CO host of CBS this morning for seven years norad. Thank you for joining us welcome skin from the couch. Thank you for having me, so we're GONNA. Start off with Skim your resume for us. Will I went to Georgetown University I was Law Sophy Major? I was interested in a lot of different things in college so I had internships at always worked and worked at a law firm I. worked at the World Bank, and and then I injured ABC News and I think you know journalism really was what was the right fit for me? Just a deep curiosity about the news, deep curiosity about world events and people have to graduating from college I got a job at National Journal on a publication, a called the hotline, which was the original kind of aggregate her of news before the Huffington. Post and others got into the business of aggregating news. Even like you guys in some way, remember it well, and that also was like a crash course in politics, too, because we would. Sum Up every Senate and House race across the country, all the polling who all the key consultants were, so that really was a great crash course in politics, and then I got hired at NBC and MSNBC when I was twenty five years old to be you know it was one of the youngest correspondents at NBC history, and had a great career at NBC and had three kids, and then we all work on intelligent news underwear like personal services contracts. All of us have anywhere from two to five year contracts. In, so you know in each of those contracts, come up! You have an opportunity to reevaluate your next step and CBS came to me with an incredible offer to be. The chief White House correspondent for Obama's last term, and to be the substitute anchor for face, the nation, and I had always been ambitious about wanting to anchor a Sunday broadcast I love politics, and so to be able to substitute for the legendary Bob Schieffer at thought. This is really an an excellent opportunity, so. and. CBS. News and then Kinda. The rest is history should I keep going? No, that was perfect so something you definitely don't know I. and turned at MVP when I was nineteen in the specials unit, and I was like my first week on the internships. Let's say day two or three in you opt into the office. And you're the first professional famous news anchor I ever seen in person and I literally I stopped breathing I was so excited all I wanted to do is to be a news anchor at the time, and I was so nervous, and when you walked out of the room I asked one of the producers. What is she liked you work with her I will never. Never forget their like she's the best of the best, and I was like what makes her so good. And they said that she always does her homework and I think about that a lot and I'm curious. What is something that you your fans and people like us your big fans? What does the thing that we don't know about you that we can't Google? What I wasn't as good about doing my homework in college. And I did just fine at Georgetown. But I do I think certainly a professional that is dry. Always did know my homework because I do believe that preparation builds confidence and confidence build success, and so for me, you know certainly early on my career as a young correspondent with so many famous people at NBC legendary careers. My confidence wasn't a tie, and so I thought how can I be the smartest person in the room and no more than anybody else and. You know I just really did my homework. I really worked really hard to make sure I knew everything. The thing that people may not know about me. You Know I. Guess would be that I'm from a military family. You know I mean that certainly is my resume, but it's the one thing I mentioned because you know I remember in covering certainly the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq after nine eleven, a lot of people would say on television and Mike Barnicle on morning. Joe would say this a lot that Oh, no less than one percent of people have someone in the military who didn't understand these wars, but I grew up in the military. My father was drafted during the Vietnam War. State for thirty years I lived overseas and so I really do have a deep appreciation for those who serve my sister-in-law surgeon in the army and so I do have a really keen sense of the sacrifice that many people go through, and I do in some ways I almost wish that it was mandatory almost like in Israel that we had to sir because. I think you know certainly the discipline that they have is unlike anything I've seen those who sir. Let's actually start with that because I think it's fascinating talking about how you grew up and living overseas. How did this love of news and growing up with that military background kind of come together for you? You know I think one of the. First crystallized for me in some ways when Elena, Nachman Ost, who is still the vice president of talent at NBC? News said to me when I met her. When I was twenty five years old, and she said you know we like hiring correspondents who have from a military background, because they're very flexible and adaptable. They don't complain about being sent to different cities or states or around. Around the world they can talk to anybody because they've sort of been put in that situation where they have to be totally adaptable. Moment's notice
Director Rod Lurie on 'The Outpost'
"The new movie the outpost. It was the most downloaded film of the weekend, and it's an immersive experience. It's about an outpost in Afghanistan at the base of this valley. If you're just joining us, it was sort of a bizarre placement of this base. But what happened was there was a Taliban insurgency of massive proportion and the director of the film Rob Gloria's is talking with us. This was a true incident. It was chronicled in a book by Jake Tapper, and then you brought it to the screen. Yeah. Jake Tapper released that best selling book in 2012. It was great. You know, when I When I first time out to do it, I called Jake up and, you know, he just wants to talk movies. So I want to do is talk about politics. So we sort of have to divvy it up every time that way. Have a conversation just because you mentioned politics I want tojust also know this is not a political film at all. I mean, really like there's no, no, it's not Pro War antiwar, pro GOP Anti GOP Pro Democrats. Cetera. There's none of that. No, it's about it's about. We really focus on the eight dudes of lost our lives and the two living member to living survivors. By definition, They're living survivors who received the Medal of Honor. One is Ty Carter, played by Caleb Landry, Jones and the other Is Scott Eastwood on DH. He plays staff Sergeant Clint Roma Shay and And that's really worried for what it really is A chronicle of what happened in the battle and sort of the events that led up to it. I would tell you more than anything else. And you know you've got Orlando Bloom and it also it's funny that one should you know, Should you give everybody best haircut and the you know basic Army. Whatever that, you know, Whatever you call it, you lose track. I guess I'm trying to say of any celebrity in it all. It's all very immersive. How did you know that was clearly a desire on your part, too? You know these battle sequences and just the feeling over time is that we're actually there at the outpost. Well, you know, the one of the things that I did mark is that I shot most of most of the film every scene in one long tape in the battle sequences, things on these long, I think really fluid takes And so you know, there's you don't think you're in a movie. I don't think you don't see cutaways. You don't see You know Scotty's would shooting his weapon and then cut a bad guy going down. It's you know, it's all in the long fluid. Um, uh, shots and as a result, I think that you're you're deeply embedded in every scene. At least that's what we were. That's what we're going for. Well, All the reviews were saying the exact same thing isn't very well reviewed film. But I have to ask you, though, from a filmmaker's pinpoint as you're doing that all in one continuous shot. You have all of these things got here got bullets everywhere and you got stuff blowing up and you've got, you know, guys running this way and other people running that way and people climbing over, you know, I mean, there's a lot to choreographing end in one of those things doesn't happen. You gotta retake it again. Oh, so like, you know, that's exactly right. So we've got special effects. I mean, you already laid it all out on the special effects the actress to get it right. And I remember there was this one really, really magnificent Take That we did, and kid Landry Jones, who zeal just hauling ass hundreds of yards, and we're following in the hallway with the, uh you know this one camera and the camera operators exhausted when it's all done, but everyone we nailed it and everybody's cheering and high fiving and tight. Carter. The actual Medal of Honor winner is there and he's hugging and crying, and you got it exactly right and then our military experts Guy named Jericho Dem and comes up and says, No, no, no, no, no, You've got it all wrong. No, no, It's a mess back guy that I was holding his weapon like that doesn't look like one explosion. Supposed to look like I said them. Come on, man. It's a movie was okay. Well, if you want every military guy in America and the world elastic find, Okay. Let it all up again and do it again, You know, And that is the thing you you have to be loyal to story and also to the look of the film as He said before the break. You know you are connected to the military sort of in your own personal history. And obviously a lot of military people looking on this movie. Well, well, you know we've gotten look, I wrote an article today in the deadline and what I said was, it's really difficult to know the metrics of success are But to me how the veterans have reacted to this has been like, unbelievable. And and you know what Marc, also how the families of fallen reacted to this. That was really freaking way. Show them this movie last October, we flew them in the moms and the dads and the brothers and the You know the wives and the kids, and we don't know what they're gonna say after work, you know? The actual soldiers that were there, looking at the worst day of their lives depicted on screen. And these families are looking at their loved ones dying on screen. You know, a couple of people afterwards and you know, I I didn't realize they swore so much. Ah, but there was really in the end, very gracious. And they hugged us and they loved us because you know they're They're boys. They're men and their sons there. They're going to be remembered forever now and You know, That's not something every soldier gets. So you know, I know it sounds corny, more But you know, having been a soldier that is really it was really, really important to all of us. I think it's happened. The capper was a wreck that night, and it's really interesting to watch it because that guy's such a cool cookie when he's interviewing generals and senators and governors and ripping them new ones, and you know who he is, But you know, on a night like this It was a flop Sweating. So was so was I, but it was It was pretty amazing night. I mean, you have to. You really are trying to honor the memory of people and you're trying to honor those who fought so valiantly and the movie, I think does that with, you know, without knowing the history as deeply as you do, Obviously, I just I was riveted by it, and I think it's powerful, both emotionally and in every other way. The movie is called the Outpost. Rod Lurie is the director. It's got Orlando Bloom's got Eastwood mentioned Caleb Lander Jones as well, but it really transcends any kind of one performance. I think it's really one of those films that I was blown away by. So congratulations. Really nice job, Rod. Thank you, Marc. I I really really appreciate appreciate it. it. Thank Thank you you for for Allowing Allowing me me on. on. I'm I'm very very proud proud to to be be on on with with you. you. Mark Mark Johnson Johnson tonight. tonight. Thank Thank you. you. Robert Robert Florey. Florey. Alright, Alright, Rod Rod Lord Lord movies movies the the outpost. outpost. Thanks, Rod.
Jack Reed questions Trump's stance on Russian Bounties
"Says President Trump was not aware of intelligence or Russians negotiated with Taliban militants to kill US troops in Afghanistan, ranking member of the Senate Armed Service Committee Jack Reed, Democrat from Rhode Island, is questioning that stance. He had this information or Paris at least once in his presidential daily brief, And yet he had five conversations with President Putin and I don't think in anyone time did either raise this issue. The bounty information was said to have been included in the president's Daily intelligence brief dated February 27th. That's according to intelligence official apparently did not scuttle US Taliban agreement or the president's plan for a troop withdrawal from the war.
Vincent Brown discusses his new book, ‘Tacky’s Revolt’
"Vincent Brown welcome to meet the rices. Slavery is war. Tell me what that means. Well. In the book. I tend to think of slavery itself as a state of war, and in that I'm following the enslaved themselves who often discuss slavery as a state of warfare amongst themselves, most famously allowed Equiano who we know as one of the most famous formerly enslaved abolitionists of the late eighteenth century British Atlantic. said in his autobiography that when you make people slaves. Them to live with you in a state of war. Now in that he was echoing the philosopher John Locke. Who said that what is slavery? But the state of war continued between what he thought was a lawful conqueror and the concord now John Locke was trying to legitimate slavery. He was an investor in the Royal African company, and he actually helped to write the constitution for the colony of south. Carolina, which became a slave state. State, but equiano was doing something a little bit different than John Locke. He was actually commenting upon the conditions of slavery, the violence that was required to maintain people in slavery and the kind of response that was bound to come by those people who had been subjected so violently so for him, slavery was a state of war, and there were other enslaved people who echoed. Seeing slavery that way helped me frame the slave revolt in Jamaica. In seventeen, sixty, seven, sixty, one, which was the largest in the eighteenth century, British Empire as a war itself right as one of a series of wars, all around the Atlantic world that then ed up in this conflict in seventeen sixty Jamaica I'd like to look at your own life, and where that intersects with war, because you grew up in San Diego, and in fact, it was very early on that. You became aware of conflicts. I did well. I'm an American citizen. I grew up in the United States. I was born in the late sixties at the height of the Vietnam War and I I'm sorry to say that I can't name a five year period when the US military hasn't been abroad somewhere engaged in conflict with somebody over the course of my entire life, which seems to me like a half century of war having. Having grown up in San Diego I grew up in one of the largest terry garrison towns really in the history of the world the US Navy is as a major base in San Diego. The US Marines just north of San Diego have a major base and so coming through high school. A lot of my friends would join the military because it was the big industry in town, right. And of course, you know, my family had been had served in the army. My father served in the army. My Uncle A. Brother had done three combat tours I. Believe one in Korea and two in Vietnam, so the history of the military, the engagement overseas abroad in military campaigns was very much a part of my thinking growing up, and so when I thought about the history of slavery. It just jumped out at me that this history was itself a history that was embroiled embedded in a world of warfare, especially in the eighteenth century win. You have got Great Britain struggling in a century long campaign against its its greatest global enemy France, and all of those European wars then topped onto. The wars of enslavement that sent people out across the Atlantic into the European colonies in America, and what you have is a world of wars within wars, which looked very familiar to me like the campaigns at the US was fighting within the larger ambit- of the Cold War so by the time I grew to adulthood in the late eighty S. I was seeing these these late cold war campaigns in these post colonial states as as part of the larger Cold War, and then you see these proxy wars between the US and the Soviet Union fought out in places like Afghanistan right, and then of course by two thousand one, you see those kind of proxy campaigns between the US and Soviet Union growing into something else what we now call the terror wars, the war on. On Terror in Afghanistan and elsewhere I didn't see those things as continuous. I didn't see the terror war something uniquely different from most proxy wars of the late. Cold War period and my thinking historically has been to ask the question. How is it that one connects these longer histories of warfare together? And I do think that I was inspired to think that partly by having grown up in San Diego in a military town. And what about your, your family's personal history with war and with slavery? Well an african-american! My parents grew up in Virginia, and so they are descended from people who are enslaved probably as far back as the eighteenth century the Chesapeake Bay area. What's now? Virginia and Maryland was one of the largest importers of slaves in North America now I say north. America because the British empire imported the vast majority of its enslaved peoples into the Caribbean but for North America the territories that became the United States, the Chesapeake and South Carolina with a major importers of enslaved African peoples, and my family is descended from. Those people probably brought to North America in the eighteenth century. History was big in your life obviously, but also the arch. Yeah well. When I was in high school I I became very involved in theater and went to college thinking that I was actually going to do a theater degree. But at some point I thought well, you know I could probably do theater without a theater degree, but maybe I should have a backup plan and my second love in college was history, and that ended up being my career.
The Urgent Need to Make Disciples - Matthew 28:19
"Matthew Chapter Twenty Eight. I nineteen. Go therefore. And make disciples of all nations. baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit. So much, we can talk about here so much. We could pray based on just that that one verse in the Great Commission but I want us to pray. Based on one truth. And what? We just read that I think many people often miss. So when Jesus says, make disciples of all nations. That is not a general command to make disciples among as many people as possible. No, that's a specific command to make disciples of all nations Ponta ethnic of all the ethnic groups. Of all the peoples of the world. So Jesus told us to go to every ethnic group. Every people group in the world and make disciples there. So what that means is, if we are not working in our lives, our families and churches to take the Gospel. To people groups ethnic groups places where the Gospel is not yet gone. Then we are disobeying the Great Commission. Disregarding what Jesus is us to do here. And the reason this is so important because. We already. And our lives and families and churches even in our churches. We spend so little on missions. Taking the Gospel to other places, but then even out of that which we spend on missions. Did you know? That ninety plus percent of missions resources in north. American churches so resources we're spending on. Missions are actually going to places in the world where the Gospel has already gone. Where churches have already been planted. Many churches even Christians when we think about missions. We think all over Latin America. We think all over sub Saharan Africa. When reality is by God's. Grace The Gospel has gone all over Latin America. All over sub Saharan Africa Yes. There are small pockets in these places, these regions where the gospels now gone, but for the most part the Gospel has gone disciples of in May, churches have been planted, and it's not wrong by any means to come alongside our brothers and sisters in these places to learn from them to work together for the glory of God, no question at the same time. We're fooling ourselves if we call that emissions when the reality is were still not obeying the mission. When ninety plus percent of our resources are going to places where the gas was already gone, and Jesus has commanded us, not suggested not implied he is crystal clear commanded us to make disciples take the Gospel, the good news of his love to people. Groups places where the gospels not yet gone. So this is why I know why. We radical started urgent, just identify the places in the world, the groups of people in the world, even the countries in the world, where there's the least access to the Gospel and to mobilize resources to go to them. It's called urgent. That's what initiatives call like. Because there's urgent need, there are people dying and going to an eternal hell who've never even heard. Nobody's even brought the good news of how they can go to heaven through Jesus to them so I just wanted to lead us to pray accordingly. Jesus we. We want to obey your. Command. We want to make your grace and your glory known among all the nations. So we pray. That you would. Open her eyes. Inner Churches to see where the Gospel is gone and to work to take the Gospel, their and our lives, and our families, and our churches to go, and to send, and to come alongside brothers and sisters who are in these places, a few brothers and sisters. I think about that we're. Partnering together with these places in the world, God help us to get behind him and work with them. For the spread of the gospel of never heard gotta we pray you think about all these countries that we're focused on an urgent like Syria God for Your glory in the Megan disciples in Bhutan North Korean. Across India and Iraq and Afghanistan and Iran Laos Lebanon Nepal and some Malia and Yemen Jesus Make Your glory known in those places and use us to do it. Don't don't let us sit back. Content to hold onto the gospel or just to take it where it's already gone God, help us to work us our efforts to take the Gospel whereas Never Gone So that disciples made in all the nations. Just as you've called to do for Your glory for the glory of the name of Jesus in all nations. We pray these
‘The Outpost’: A War Film Remembers the Fallen
"There's a lot of talk about this film That's based on a book that was written by Jake Tapper called the Outpost and the Holy Moly. I mean, for those of us looking for a molecular altering war drama in this age of sheltering in place. Isn't this movie The outpost? It's an Afghanistan war drama film directed by the always reliable and former film critic Rod Laurie. And, as you said, Based on the 2012 nonfiction book, The Outpost and Untold Story of American Valor by Jake Tapper. And It's about the Battle of Cam Desh, which I knew nothing about which happened in 2009 in northern Afghanistan when 300 Taliban attacked the American outpost, Keating Which was built in a remote valley that was completely surrounded by the Hindu Kush mountains. And this was one of several outposts that the I learned this from watching. The movie is one of several outposts of the US Army established in 2006 in northern Afghanistan, whose purpose was to connect with the locals and stop the flow of weapons and Taliban fighters from Pakistan. So, but this outpost was literally at low ground. It was surrounded by mountains, so in a way the American soldiers who were stationed there We're sitting ducks for the Taliban. In fact, as the movie says, in the beginning of one analyst maintains that this particular outpost must might just as well have been called Camp Custer because everyone at the outpost was probably going to die. So at least you the viewer right from the get go because they Tell you a lot of this. In the beginning, you know the kind of war story you're going to be in for and what's going to follow, and this movie was anti war and anti war movies. They come very powerful, very visceral, very intense. And in one sense, it's nothing we haven't seen before. When I was watching it. I thought of movies like Paths of Glory in all quiet on the western Front of Gallipoli. But that doesn't take away from the fact that from the You know this story and the power and the intensity of what is an extremely well crafted and well acted movie. In a way it's torturing us having to sit through. This is kind of like Black Hawk down. It kind of reminded me of that, too, because you know, it ain't going to turn out well for these soldiers. There's a slow burning build up and the seeds are slowly sewn to a build up of what amounts to a 45 on screen. Massacre, but it's awfully good. I mean this movie if you have the stomach for it, and it brings, you know brings with it. A message seems to have to repeat it constantly and books and in movies and in history books you know before humanity decides it wants nothing more to do with wars and alternative. The conflict. It's It's a powerful anti war statement that says war is Hell. War's pointless wars. Ridiculous and you know, but we seem to Be constantly involved in them. And anyway, the movie was scheduled to premiere at the South by Southwest Film Festival this year, but it was canceled because of the cove it on 19 pandemic, But it's going to be released via video undermanned beginning today. So happy for the July everybody, holy cows. We put you through the wringer. You know, it's funny to remember you were you were talking earlier We were talking What? We have been talking about this about missing the big screen experience. Yes, yes and When this When this length came to review, there was a letter attached to it. I'm sure everybody got this all the critics, but I just wanted to read because the cracks because, Hey, hey, this is Rob Laurie, the director of the outpost. I am excited. You're going to be one of the first people to see our film, on the other hand is, I am sure doesn't surprise you. It's a bit of a bummer that I am unable to show this to you. The way was originally intended on the big ass screen with the full visual scope and sound every inch of this film was designed to make it a fully immersive experience. Dance boy Waas mean I even on the small screen. It was particularly the battle, which takes up the second half of the film. So from the person who made this film to a fellow film lover, I would ask you to please try and replicate the theater experience as much as possible. And by that, I mean that you watched the movie and a single uninterrupted way and on the largest possible screen with the best multi channel sound system you have available. Please take care to watch it in a darkened room with appropriate minimal theater lighting is there are a few nights Seems that may get lost otherwise, and on a technical note, I would kindly ask that you make sure the streaming player is set to stream at 11080 p or better this will ensure the best possible picture within the limitations of the player. In other words, please if you can know, watching it on your iPhone or your laptop that Zai anyway, I just thought that was it was a hoot. That's really funny, but I get it. I mean, I understand why he wants you to watch it in the best quality that you possibly can. Absolutely and Well, I did watch it on a computer. It was a big computer screen. But I'm telling you, I can't imagine seeing this on the big screen. I mean, you'd never be the same under really You'd have to be literally carried out. It's that powerful a movie. I really recommend it. But just with the caveat that you know it's a tough watch. But it it really takes you into this hopeless battle. Um, And there's a little bit of one little, maybe one or two rays of light at the end, But oh, and I also want to say, I want to mention this to everybody Thinking of watching the movie stated it is the end credits come 10 minutes before the actual movie. Watch it to the end to the end, because there's a lot of Great stuff in the end credits that I don't even want to go into. But it might be easy to just turn it off. At one point. Where are we watching? It is called almost and it's on. It's on. It's on video D as of today, Okay? Okay. Happy Fourth of July outpost. Okay, outpost,
Democrats call for sanctions against Russia
"Democrats and the White House remained at odds over an explosive intelligence report. Democrats are calling for sanctions on Russia if reports of bounties on U. S. Soldiers in Afghanistan turn out to be true. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says President Trump should have been briefed on the intelligence issues spend more time Reading. The daily Presidential briefed the president on show daily, brief layover, then planning military parades and preserving the relics of the Confederacy. The White House maintains the president was not briefed earlier this year because there was disagreement about the veracity of the
Pelosi, Democrats criticize Trump on Russia after intel briefing
"The two top Democrats in Congress say any threats to American troops must be pursued relentlessly there, rebuking the president after receiving a highly classified briefing about intelligence that Russia offered bounties for killing US troops in Afghanistan. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, accusing the president of being soft on Russian President Putin and distracted by less important issues. The president has called reports of the intelligence assessments of hoax and has thus far declined to address whether the U. S. Has or will respond to Russia.
Democrats say troop threats should be pursued 'relentlessly'
"Intelligence leaders briefed congressional leaders on Russia bounties Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer was briefed on assessments Russia offered bounties to kill U. S. troops in Afghanistan I believe that the president is not close to tough enough on Vladimir Putin house speaker Nancy Pelosi responded to the White House insistence president trump wasn't briefed because the assessments weren't verify the White House put on the con that if you don't have a hundred percent consensus on intelligence that we shouldn't be it shouldn't rise to a certain level secretary of state Mike Pompeii says this was handled incredibly well we took this seriously we handle it appropriately president trump is called news reports a hoax and Donahue Washington
Trump, top officials defend response to Russia bounty threat
"Congressional leaders from both parties are expected to be briefed today on the Russian military bounty reports intelligence officials including C. H. chief Gina Haspel and the director of national intelligence John Radcliffe will hold a classified meeting on Capitol Hill lawmakers are pressing the White House for more answers about assessments Russia offered a bounty for the deaths of US troops in Afghanistan president trump on fox business network's the claimant count down called it a hoax this didn't rise to the occasion and said the intelligence community didn't appear to believe the reports secretary of state Mike Pompeii said we took this seriously we handle it appropriately the White House says the assessments were unverified so the president wasn't told but intelligence officials have told the Associated Press president trump was briefed on the matter Jackie Quinn Washington
CIA did not verbally brief Trump on Russia report, says official
"The. National Security Adviser said the CIA. Tossed with briefing, the president decided not to tell him about reports that Russia paid bounties to the Taliban for killing American soldiers, because it was unverified intelligence. The claim from Robert, O'Brien came top members of the administration gave differing accounts on the status of intelligence reports on Russian bounty payments, and why trump had not taken action in response, but had repeatedly pressed to readmit. Russia to the g seven club of nations trump himself, continued to suggest that the allegations of Russia paying Taliban fighters to kill Americans were a hoax. It had been reported that the intelligence was included in the written presidential daily brief, given by the CIA O'Brien appeared to suggest it had not been included in verbal briefings given to trump who famously doesn't read written briefings. O'Brien was severely criticized for putting the blame for a major policy issue on a relatively junior CIA official. This is the same scapegoating play that the White House ran in the corona virus context, blaming trump's intelligence briefer for something that is chiefly in fundamentally a failing of the white. House staff said net price, a former CIA analyst and national security spokesman. He added. We now know the information was included in trump's written PD, which is how the intelligence community regularly flags items that the president needs to know meanwhile Mike Pompeo. The tree of state insisted that the Russian threat in Afghanistan was real and had been properly addressed, implying the president had been kept informed. A former senior US official confirmed that reports Russian. Russian bounties was circulating inside the White House before the summer of Twenty nineteen, but added it was likely that the president had ignored the news as it conflicted with his desire to cultivate good relations with Vladimir Putin. Some former officials said trump's resistance to intelligence warnings about Russia led his national security team, including those who delivered the PD be to brief him verbally less often on Russia. Related threats to the US a former, Taliban, spokesman Mulama Niyazi said the Taliban had been paid by Russian intelligence for attacks on US forces and on Isis Forces in Afghanistan from twenty fourteen. Right up to the present.
Afghan Contractor Handed Out Russian Cash to Kill Americans, Officials Say
"Afghan. Contractor handed out Russian cash to kill Americans. Officials say times reporting tonight that an Afghan contractor started as a lowly drug smuggler. Named rummage excuse me Brahma to Z.. Stands as a crash, central piece of a puzzle, rocking Washington his named in American intelligence reports confirmed by Afghan officials key middleman, who for years handed out money from Russian military intelligence to reward taliban-linked fighters for targeting American troops quote a security agencies connected the dots of the bounty scheme and narrowed in on him. They carried out sweeping raids to arrest dozens of his relatives and associates, but they discover the mysteries easy had sneaked out of Afghanistan and was likely back in Russia, but they did find in one of his homes in Kabul was about a half million dollars in cash. This time report is based on according to The Times a dozen interviews that included US and Afghan officials aware of both the Intel and these raids that it led to. Mr Azizi, according to the times quote collected the cash in Russia which intelligence files seen by lawmakers in Washington, described as multiple payments of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then there's this. The, price? Quote Afghan officials said prizes of as much as one hundred thousand dollars per killed soldier were offered for American and coalition targets. That's what. Putin was paying per corpse. Per Dead. American soldier! Award. You could get killed on one hundred grand cash. And this was reportedly briefed to president trump multiple times including in February of this year, and he has done nothing in response. The Washington Post in fact reporting tonight that he plans to do nothing about it still. He doesn't see why he should have to do anything at all.
White House Dismisses Reports of Bounties, but Is Silent on Russia
"The white. House is still trying to grapple with reports that Russia paid bounties to taliban-linked militants to kill U, S and coalition forces in Afghanistan and that the president was told about the plot months ago tonight. The Washington Post says trump has no plans for an immediate response because he quote does not believe the reports. Reports are true or actionable. According to two senior administration officials this morning on social media, trump again dismissed the issue calling it quote just another made up by fake news tale that is told only to damage me and the Republican Party just another hoax hours later, the praise the president made his first public comments about the Intel echoing his administration's lied about not having been briefed because the information had not been verified. We never heard about it because intelligence never found it to be. Of the of that a level where it would rise to that I'm sure I don't see many things that they don't think rose to the occasion. This didn't rise to the occasion and from what I hear. And I hear it pretty good. The intelligence people didn't even many of them didn't believe it happened at all. I think it's a hoax. I think it's a hoax by the newspapers and the Democrats. This was something that never got presented to me and they know that never got presented because it didn't rise to that level. Trump's national security advisor and press secretary offered reports. The slightly different take on why trump wasn't informed about. The Intel appeared to focus on one unnamed Diana staffer. The person decided. Early on whether the president should be briefed on this in the Oval in the oval tells briefing was his career senior career civil servant. Officer I and she made that decision because she didn't have confidence in the intelligence that came up and we had this. Ron Telling we started an interagency process to look at options so that if the if the intelligence turned out to be verified, if it could be corroborated, then we'd have options to go to the president with it was a career. CIA officer with more than thirty years a tenure who made the decision not to brief up in the national security adviser agreed with that decision. That was the right decision to make at this moment as I speak to you, it is still unverified. Today the Senate intelligence. Committee became the latest group of lawmakers to get a briefing on the from the administration on the bounty plot. A new report in politico says quote. Top White House officials confirmed lawmakers this week that the Russian bounty intelligence was included in trump's dealing written brief in late February Capitol Hill. Sources say even though it had not been briefed to the president orally by that point, the article does not. Not Specify which lawmakers received this information. The gang of eight members of Congress who the administration usually keeps in the loop on critical national security matters are still hoping to get their own briefing from the director of the CIA the Director of the National Director of National Intelligence and the head of the National Security Agency that meeting had been scheduled to take place today, but this morning it was postponed until tomorrow.
Trump calls reports of Russian bounties on U.S. troops a “hoax”
"Trump calls reports of a Russian bouncy An American troops in Afghanistan hoax but his national security advisor says the intelligence was important enough to share with US and coalition forces. At the time it was gathered. President Trump doubted US intelligence that Russia may have offered bounties to the Taliban to kill U. S soldiers. I think it's a Hoax. I think it's a hoax by the newspapers and the Democrats. Sources tell CBS News Details about the potential plot appeared in the president's Daily brief, though he has not said if he actually read them, Mr Trump says. What matters is that no one verbally told him the information intelligence people. Didn't even many of them didn't believe it happened at all. But national security adviser Robert O'Brien said the raw intelligence was worries them enough to share with the military, even though it wasn't verified because we were concerned about it. We give it to US forces. On the CBS News podcast, the takeout, former national security adviser John Bolton told Major President Trump wacked an interest in intelligence briefings. He's just not receptive to new fax.
Trump, top officials defend response to Russia bounty threat
"President trump dismisses intelligence assessments that Russia was paying bounties to Afghan militants who killed U. S. soldiers in an interview with fox business network the claimant count down president trump questioned the validity of the New York times report that was confirmed by the Associated Press based on intelligence assessments that Russia may a paid bounties for U. S. soldiers killed in Afghanistan I think it's a hoax I think it's a hoax by the newspapers and the Democrats trump also insist he wasn't briefed because intelligence didn't rise to his level as for the corona virus pandemic trump told fox business network's the claimant count down that he has tried on a mask it was a dark black mask and I thought it looked okay look like the Lone Ranger trump has criticized facemasks since April when the CDC purse recommended masks or face coverings to be worn for protection to acquire Washington
"afghanistan" Discussed on On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts
"Meghna Chalker Bardy. We're talking this hour about the agreement. Signed between the United States and the Taliban this weekend Indo harm and what that means for next steps in Afghanistan. We talk about endless. Wars are now in a phase of endless peace. Well let's listen to what General John Allen had to say he's former commander of the NATO International Security Assistance Force and US forces in Afghanistan. He called the agreement an important step forward in an interview with the BBC's news hour this weekend Allen also said the agreement did not go far enough to protect women in Afghanistan. I think for the United States have signed this agreement without having enshrined in it somewhere that the Taliban would adhere to a US formulation of how women should be treated in the aftermath of the inter-afghan dialogue. Which is phase two of this process? I think leaves women exposed. I think leaves them vulnerable at all that we have accomplished over these many years of conflict? I think we'll have been for naught if we can't get this into the agreement General John Allen. Speaking to the BBC well Muhammed's hill. Shaheen is a member of the Talibans negotiation team. Cnn's Nick Robertson asked Shahin about the guarantees. The Taliban will give to him in about The role of women their education. Because we're women want to have education and women won't have right of work. We do not have any problem with that Mohammad. Sohail Shaheen speaking to CNN. Well joining us now. From New York is Mariam Wardak. She served under two presidential administrations in the Afghan government. Most recently in the office of National Security of the National Security Council President Ghani's administration. She's anchor of South Asia. Diary with Mariama Daca weekly show on world news and Indian based network and she's also founder of her Afghanistan and online platform supporting Afghan women. Mariam Wardak welcome to on point. Thank you for having me and also with us from Washington is Michael Schulman. He's director deputy director and senior associate for South Asia at the Wilson Center. Michael Welcome to you banks great to be here so Mariam first of all. Let's just take this question of the future of for Afghan women had on. Do you think the what do you think of what General Allen had to say that? He's concerned about next steps for women in Afghanistan. I think it's very generous that the world community in general is concerned for the women of Afghanistan but I think that we also need to reflect that the world community did not know what was best for Afghan women at the time when they entered Afghanistan As an afghan-american. I felt that I had a responsibility. Show the best of both sides to both nations. When I was in Afghanistan for the past ten years I had to constantly explain to the Afghans. That isn't American. That Americans were not here to kill innocent Afghans but to fight the spread of violent ideologies in my time in Afghanistan the Afghan rule the people in the rural community did not understand why foreign forces were in Afghanistan. It was properly community to communicate it to them in why they focused so much more on Western ideologies being forced on the Afghan public especially when it came to women empowerment. And this this There was a larger influence in Kabul We should make a caveat here that Kabul does not represent the whole country in fact. It's quite disconnected. Those that are in Kabul are well are well aware of the current events and understand the foreign footprints and why the war is ongoing and Through their engagement with the diplomatic missions and private investors or journalists but that cannot be the same account for people in Helmand and Nuristan. I've witnessed early in my career that the disconnect and the The lack of communication amongst the people and Afghan government is where the issues rise and this is the sensitivity of Afghan women the Western ideology of empowerment cannot be accepted in Afghanistan. If it has not been expect accepted the region. Currently if you look at the region we have issues of female. Ah IN THE GENDER GAP within Pakistan India Iran. So how can we go into Afghanistan? That is much smaller nation and less established but all of a sudden wanted to provide all these rights and not even explain to the women's water not even explained to the women what their rights are. So what we are here for a second because this is very interesting. Mariam and I appreciate you opening up opening our eyes to this because as you well know Any number of senior level. Us diplomats and members of the military that that clip from General Allen. Being just one of them when asked again from the American perspective granted. What's the one thing that made it made these past eighteen years justified frequently? They will point to women in Afghanistan. What they tell the American people that that Eighteen years of conflict and war in Afghanistan was worth it because of what the US helped usher in for Afghan women. Are you saying that that's not true? Now the eighteen years was worth it because we have education opportunities in Afghanistan. The eighteen years are worth it because we have access to healthcare in Afghanistan. The eighteen years are worth it because Afghans were able to move away from from a certain segment of war. Being in the civil being the Dean did not only fight the Red Army but they also ABC Ganz especially in the rural areas so when the foreign forces came that diverted dot engagement. Yes we're we can stay where we are still in current state of war. The Afghan Taliban just announced that they're only fighting the Afghan National Defense Security Forces. That's the current state of war however the eighteen years are the opportunities that were provided. Were for all odd Ganz. It was not only for the Afghan women and if we want to look at the progress of Afghan women. I want to let you know that many of the women that are in power are there. Symbolically they very rarely have executive Power and this is a concern and this is something that I've fought over and over with multiple officials within the Afghan government. That you can't just have a female in the room and I give her voice. She needs to be incorporated into policy making decision and executes in the certain decisions. However it's very superficial and can I just I'm so sorry but are are the the gains that you just laid out that we're gains for all Afghan people. Are they at risk of slipping back if we eventually do see a progressive drawdown of US troops in Afghanistan? I mean I I only go by. What the Afghan Taliban stating and what other parties are stating the Afghan. Taleban have been very clear. That education will be eliminated. They're not going to continue to burn schools or or break down these opportunities. They're saying that the access to healthcare will be available so based on these committees these terms that they've clearly identified. I don't think that we will fall back. I know that everybody has a mixture of hope and fear here especially the Afghans but fear is because of the unknown. They don't know what's going to happen. And this is where the world community is responsible because you have to continue to monitor and you have to engage in into a and intervene when you find that. Many of the gains of the past eighteen years are not accessible anymore right so when it comes to Afghan women We have to look at this population as Afghans together highlighting Afghan women the game for the past eighteen years you're causing friction within the Afghan men and women in Afghanistan And it's enough that the Afghan men are fighting one another. We cannot have this engagement with the women and the men you have to. The whole community needs to evolve. Because when you are leaving a man that's behind and there's going to be tension within the household and you have to understand the Afghan culture. It's a very traditional culture the Afghan men the Patriarchal Society as much as we've had many narratives that it is starting to rise as a Matriarchal Society because we've Lost. Many men and women are now leading the households but many of the men have a larger. Say with a woman is going to leave. She's going to have educational opportunities if she's going to work. It's with the permission of her husband. Her father or her brother within that household so we have to evolve as a community We'll let me just let me. Just let folks know that we just to remind them that we are talking about the. The agreement signed between the United States and the Taliban this weekend and we want to hear from listeners. If your Afghan do you think the signifies a major turning point the agreement is being called historic if you served in Afghanistan. What do you think about the fact that the US and the Taliban reached this point does it mean anything significant to you based on your experience when deployed in Afghanistan Michael I appreciate your patience a lot here but just reflect on what you've heard. Marry him say so far about about Afghan women in sort of the fundamental changes. That have happened in the country. I think it's true that there have been some very notable changes in Afghanistan including once for the better and you know it seems that over the last two years for good reason. Afghanistan has been one big bad news story particularly in in media coverage here in the US as it should be but indeed there have been a number of advances. And I I would argue that Women's rights women's education has been a major advance and that certainly those advances could be squandered If the peace process doesn't start Or if it falls apart but You know I think that the the the major pointed to highlight is that what happened on Saturday the deal between the US and the Taliban it really is a milestone because it really is the first formal type of agreement or deal That the Taleban sign with anyone particularly the United States. And you know at the end of the day it puts off Ghanistan On a potential path to launching a peace process and I emphasize potential for all the reasons that we heard from Ambassador Dobbins earlier there was a lot of obstacles and I think what for me. What really stands out about this agreement is that yes. It's a milestone but also it's a huge gamble because it appears to give the Taliban a lot without requiring much in return. I mean we've been dealing agreement says it in just a few months. Several thousand troops will leave with no conditions. They're supposed to be a release of five thousand Taliban prisoners in a few days. They're going to be efforts to try to get the Taliban off. Un sanctions lists by the end of May and in return. What do we have? The Taliban agree to do sever ties with international terrorists in ways that are laid out in the agreement but in somewhat of a vague way and without any clear indication of how the Taliban how efforts by the Taleban to sever those ties with international terrorist will actually be monitored and enforced so it sounds like the bare minimum in exchange. Then right and there's also been some mixed messaging I mean I we've heard senior. Us Administration officials over the last few days. Say things at odds with what's in the agreement. The agreement does not remain suggests that the Taliban needs to be talking to the Afghan government and US forces. Were start leaving with the idea of having all. Us forces leave Within the next fourteen months. But then you had Defense Secretary. Us Defense Secretary say yesterday that no the Taliban really needs to be focused heavily on talking and making progress talking about a ceasefire So there's just a lot of Nicks neces- Djing and a lot of confusion. Which makes it complicated process all the more difficult to make sense of well. Mariam help us understand something because it sounds like everything regarding the future for for the Afghan people themselves a completely hinges upon the Taliban and the Afghan government's willingness to talk the those intra Afghanistan talks. You have optimism about that happening in a meaningful way. The Afghan government is supposed to represent the Afghan public. But unfortunately we've witnessed that. This was the lowest turn out and a president one on one with razor thin blade With raise them blame ratio here And during my years within the Afghan government I'm noticed there is a gap between the government. And the people so. I think that the Taliban shouldn't have completely excluded. The Afghan government should allow a seat. But I understand the will for the Afghan Taliban to just speak to the public directly. Now we have to. There's a few things that you need to. It's I understand why why the Afghan government is also upset now. Gang give government here are fighting multiple voices. They're fighting international terrorist regional terrorist the Afghan Taliban end criminal activity so they're stretched very thin but I've also noticed that they're also trying to engage with. Afghan Taliban president has yet to make a national address in the national language sending a message Taliban to come communicate directly to me. He speaks at them rather than to them and he speaks Through certain messages from the United States or through other allies. There is a a an issue here that the the world community has failed Afghanistan after the defeat of the US SR so there is a trust deficit between the ABC Ganz and the world community. And that's the fear of abandonment and that fear of abandonment is what's going to cause the friction within the agan people speaking to the Afghan Taliban. Because they don't want the international community completely leave so the reduction in violence which has ended today and many assume that ended because President..
"afghanistan" Discussed on On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts
"Ties with al Qaeda. The Taliban wants to make a deal. We'll see if they WANNA make. It's got to be a real deal but we'll see that last clip from President Donald Trump this past November. Well on Saturday in Doha the US and the Taliban did sign an agreement. So what does signal? And what will come next this point dealing with the Taliban and we're going to begin today with Ambassador James Dobbins. He joins us from Washington. He's a senior fellow and distinguished chair in diplomacy insecurity at the Rand Corporation. He was the special envoy for Afghanistan in the administration of George W Bush and Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan in the Obama Administration as well Ambassador Dobbins welcome to you. So what's your first thought on the significance of this weekend signing US Taliban Signing A agree the agreement. I think it's a positive step. I think the hard part is still to come. I think the timetables set out in the agreement are probably a little unrealistic. Aren't going to be rich but it's a it's a step in the right direction. Step in the right direction. And what is that direction well? The direction is a peace agreement between the Taliban and the Afghan government and departure for American forces. So tell me more about that because that seems to be one of the critical questions here about whether The the the Taliban Afghanistan government are going to reach some sort of agreement themselves. But I agree I. That's why I say the hard part is still to come. There are big issues that they have to face how to. How do they combine to form a coalition government? How do they combine the Taliban fighters and the arm for the army and police of the Afghan Republic into a single National Force? Those are big issues that will take a long time to work out. Well then let's let's go back a little bit or a long bit ambassador given the United States has been Involved at war in Afghanistan for eighteen years. The what is the what are some of the moments that you remember early in your time in Afghanistan that perhaps. If we had handled differently it would have taken US less than eighteen years to get here. I think in the first in the first few months we made three basic mistakes. One wants to believe that A new government With no army. No police force could be responsible for the security of its population. And Its territory. The second mistake was to Not Take advantage of outreach. From senior Taliban leaders including the top leadership who were prepared to surrender And the third Was To not recognized that although Pakistan has ceased supporting the Taliban government they hadn't see supporting the Taliban the combination of those three failures took a long time to remedy. And by the time we did remedy the Taliban had reorganized re-equipped refunded and And resumed a significant insurgency throughout Afghanistan. I see and so so therefore those those missed opportunities or those mistakes prolonged wars essentially they they created the opportunity for an insurgency to arise and create a violent resistance to the American presence There was no we talk about having been at war for eighteen years but for the first three or four years there wasn't a war that was a very small American presidents smaller than it is today And they were mostly focused on one thing down. AL QAEDA FIGURES And the Taliban were licking its wounds in Pakistan and getting ready to come back. So what do you think are the critical things to watch for in the next couple of days or weeks as the ink tries on this agreement between the US and and the Taliban calls for two things to a car over the next few days one is a prisoner exchange and the second is Opening of talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban They're both supposed to have a car by a tenth of arch. That's one of the deadlines. I think we'll be missed but those are what to look for The prisoner exchange And whether it takes place and then whether President Ghani Is is willing and able to form a broadly-based representative delegation to talk in. Dallas on whether to tell about are prepared to meet with them although they have said they would. We know. It's interesting because just today we're seeing reports from the AFP for example the says the Taliban are resuming offensive operations against Afghan security forces essentially ending the partial truce that preceded the signing of the deal in Doha on Saturday and that that this is happening just a day after president. Ghani said he would continue this partial truce until those talks March ten. So what does that signify to you? Look Reuss was only supposed to last for seven days And it did last for seven days There's no agreement to continue it president. Connie express the hope that it would continue the US expressing the hope that we continue but the Taliban only agreed to a seven day truce. So so this isn't a collapse of any kind of ceasefire then. It's not static collapses the agreement if if if someone wants to make it a a make or break issue. If Gandhi says he won't negotiate as long as fighting continues then the process will come to a halt. But it's not a violation of the agreement. I I was because I was just I was wondering if the resumption of attacks from the Taliban would put those future talks in peril and it sounds like I guess. I am headline okay. It might. Yeah Yeah I mean. There's so many things that could go wrong. This is a very delicate process and And that's why I think it's GonNa move haltingly but It you know. The Taliban did demonstrate capable of maintaining a ceasefire. That's an important point that they have sufficient command and control to do it And they get it for a week. Which is what they agreed to let me ask you. What do you think it works in this agreement? What do you think has been done right? Well I think you know we've been talking to the Taliban for ten years. We we started in two thousand ten in these negotiations and The major blockage for most of that time was we wouldn't negotiate in the absence of the Afghan government and the Taliban wouldn't negotiate in the presence of the Afghan government so trump and Khalilzad rather artfully Steps you know. We went around this obstacle by by forging this two stage process in which we could negotiate an an early preliminary agreement and then the larger talks with the Taliban and the Afghan government would begin and so the real question is will. They begin and we'll have to wait and see. What do you think the biggest differences regarding the US's position now versus what it was in two thousand to two thousand five two thousand six every year preceding preceding this moment now well two thousand to The US was refusing to talk to the Taliban Or even to to allow Taliban leadership that wanted to come over and Surrender To do so Those who did were sent to Guantanamo prison in American run prisons Afghanistan for for years Even below Ma. The top Taleban leaders are offered the cars that he would surrender if he was offered immunity and and the position at the top of the of the Bush administration this time persuaded Karzai to turn that down although he was inclined to to agree. So so that's a big change and that change occurred in two thousand ten under Obama when we decided we would talk to the Taliban the second big change who cared about a year ago when the US agreed to begin negotiations with the Taliban without the Afghan government in the room on a preliminary agreement that being a significant change. Yeah Yeah I was wondering if a third big difference is that the United States simply just doesn't have the will to in Afghanistan anymore. I think I mean I think that that's not that's not a total change. I mean Obama wanted to handle for Obama in fact declared in two thousand fourteen. We would be out by the end of his term. Whether or not there was an agreement. now three weeks after he made that decision Islamic state I out of Syria much pates Baghdad and And nearly took over the country and that was in evidence of what happens if you abandoned one of these campaigns prematurely so about backed off but Obama was insistent and trump was about ending the war and was willing to do so unilaterally if necessary and trump has been You know has wavered on this On occasion he's he's made very bellicose. Statements imply we'll stay as long as we need and other times he's talked about ending the war even even unilaterally. So I I think that that that war weariness on the part of the US is certainly one One factor that encourage the Taliban to believe that they were it was worth negotiating with the US. And uncertainty about whether we would leave was one of the factors they were certainly would leave and they wouldn't have negotiated so the uncertainty actually created an opportunity for negotiations well ambassador James Dobbins Senior Fellow and distinguished chair in diplomacy and security at the Rand Corporation. He was also special envoy for Afghanistan the administration of George W Bush and Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan in the Obama administration as well Ambassador Dobbins. Thank you so much for joining well when we come back. We'll talk a lot more about the agreement signed between the US and the Taliban this weekend from the Afghan perspective. We'll hear from you as well. This is on.
"afghanistan" Discussed on First Person
"What if he come out? The government in Afghanistan is unable to fight the Taliban the Taliban regained control of most. If not all of his son and end the various global jihadi terrorist groups three congregate not because of any other reason but because it logically they and the the Taliban have much more in common and will be welcomed much more easily than they would be in a country where the government really runs and extremists. He misses from another country are really not allowed to set up right now. The US has created a framework agreement with the Taliban but Afghan government has said. It won't participate participate. But I what is the framework agreement. The framework agreement is essentially That the US would draw injured done for a week. Taleban Bon promise that they will not support international jihadi terrorist groups but the Taliban themselves that an international terrorist group. They've attacked Americans have attacked attack. The American embassy more than once attacked Germans French British Canadians. Australians I can't understand how dare I promise that they will not allow or Isis to come back into Havana. Stan and be considered worth the paper. It's written aunts. I really really don't see. There's a framework agreement. All I see is a promise for those who just really want out so that they can use it as a fig-leaf Gli forgetting out. What is the legacy of the? US's seventeen eighteen years in Afghanistan. Oh there's a lot of positive legacy I mean a lot more would've gone. Young women are going to school. The Taliban didn't allow that the Taliban played football with human heads. If you remember. The Taliban were one of the most atrocious atrocious regimes in human history and all of that is gone and now the Taliban are themselves saying all of that was wrong so that is definitely a positive. The legacy that Americans can be proud of a government has been created in Afghanistan that with all its weaknesses and flaws and by the government doesn't have flaws at the same time there was always a concern that the US cannot afford to antagonize Buxton. Buxton is a nuclear armed country. Buxton has been an American ally for several several decades. It would complicate the situation if Pakistan was put under too much pressure so in a way basically the failure of the US in relation relation to Afghanistan has not been failure of its actions in Afghanistan but off its inaction in relation to a Taliban based in Pakistan Kazakhstan. I'm curious if there's anything else that you went off our listeners that I haven't asked you will. I would just say that your listeners need to think about what is common cullman. Between Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan countries America went in guns blazing and kind of came out route without a visible success. And I would say that. The real reason is a failure to understand the regional dynamics except politics and an inadequate understanding of the culture of the politics of the country. You're going when you intervene in another country entry You should know who Elisa You should have a minimalist agenda of what you're going to change to not going to change and you should have a time line in your own mind. In each of these cases those requirements were not fulfilled People that you supported like Hamid Karzai ended up running on you in being critical of you and yet you don't feel that you have somebody in Afghanistan and that you can trust as your ally so those are the errors that I think are the big lesson of Afghanistan and even now I would say that instead of announcing scheduled withdrawal America should be clear of what it wants in Afghanistan. Not when it wants it enough Afganistan thank you Mr.
"afghanistan" Discussed on FP's The Editor's Roundtable (The E.R.)
"And there's a couple of hundred thousand dollars for somebody doing a study and I said what are these studies about. You're trying trying to figure out whether schools in Ghana Stan should be more like New Jersey. Schools are Maryland schools. Something why don't you understand. You know Ghanistan. Based on before the Soviets game a decent school was a roof. A blackboard some chock a teacher and some books. Why can't we do that so when people here complain that Oh God the US visted and spent too much money in done around to them and say you didn't didn't have to you did that because that's where you make your decisions? It's not the port of this for. You could have done it all at much less cost. And so what has happened now is that. Nobody's thinking about the ordinal reason for going into Afghanistan. What if he come out? The government in Afghanistan is unable to fight the Taliban the Taliban regained control of most. If not all of his son and end the various global jihadi terrorist groups three congregate not because of any other reason but because it logically they and the the Taliban have much more in common and will be welcomed much more easily than they would be in a country where the government really runs and extremists. He misses from another country are really not allowed to set up right now. The US has created a framework agreement with the Taliban but Afghan government has said. It won't participate participate. But I what is the framework agreement. The framework agreement is essentially That the US would draw injured done for a week. Taleban Bon promise that they will not support international jihadi terrorist groups but the Taliban themselves that an international terrorist group. They've attacked Americans have attacked attack. The American embassy more than once attacked Germans French British Canadians. Australians I can't understand how dare I promise that they will not allow or Isis to come back into Havana. Stan and be considered worth the paper. It's written aunts. I really really don't see. There's a framework agreement. All I see is a promise for those who just really want out so that they can use it as a fig-leaf Gli forgetting out. What is the legacy of the? US's seventeen eighteen years in Afghanistan. Oh there's a lot of positive legacy I mean a lot more would've gone. Young women are going to school. The Taliban didn't allow that the Taliban played football with human heads. If you remember. The Taliban were one of the most atrocious atrocious regimes in human history and all of that is gone and now the Taliban are themselves saying all of that was wrong so that is definitely a positive. The legacy that Americans can be proud of a government has been created in Afghanistan that with all its weaknesses and flaws and by the government doesn't have flaws at the same time there was always a concern that the US cannot afford to antagonize Buxton. Buxton is a nuclear armed country. Buxton has been an American ally for several several decades. It would complicate the situation if Pakistan was put under too much pressure so in a way basically the failure of the US in relation relation to Afghanistan has not been failure of its actions in Afghanistan but off its inaction in relation to a Taliban based in Pakistan Kazakhstan. I'm curious if there's anything else that you went off our listeners that I haven't asked you will. I would just say that your listeners need to think about what is common cullman. Between Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan countries America went in guns blazing and kind of came out route without a visible success. And I would say that. The real reason is a failure to understand the regional dynamics except politics and an inadequate understanding of the culture of the politics of the country. You're going when you intervene in another country entry You should know who Elisa You should have a minimalist agenda of what you're going to change to not going to change and you should have a time line in your own mind. In each of these cases those requirements were not fulfilled People that you supported like Hamid Karzai ended up running on you in being critical of you and yet you don't feel that you have somebody in Afghanistan and that you can trust as your ally so those are the errors that I think are the big lesson of Ghanistan and even now I would say that instead of announcing scheduled withdrawal America should be clear of what it wants in Afghanistan. Not when it wants it enough. I'm GonNa stop thank you Mr.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Fresh Air
"The strategy or or lack of one as the war progressed You know after Al Qaeda was rousted following the nine eleven attacks And the Taliban government amount was toppled the government which had had given sanctuary to al Qaeda. There was the question of what direction to take. What did the Bush administration decided to do with Afghanistan? Did it lose. Its focus padded thing shift. Well it did lose its focus in. There's a number of documents that illustrate this in on almost an eye popping way and one of them is a a Rumsfeld snowflake a memo he wrote in two thousand to October two thousand and two. This is one year after the war began Rumsfeld dictates a memo to himself in which he says he went to the White House to visit President Bush to get his attention because he you wonder set up a meeting between Bush and two generals one of the generals was Tommy. Franks who is the head of. US Central Command was going to oversee the war in Iraq. That was to come. I'm six months later Rumsfeld also asked Bush. You know I'd like to set up a meeting with you. And General McNeil. According to the memo Bush responded well WHO's general McNeil and Rumsfeld said Well General Dan McNeill he's the commander of our forces in Afghanistan and Bush replied well. I don't need to meet with him. So here's the the commander in chief who's already taken his eye off. Afghanistan doesn't even know who his top commander is there and and is just focused on the forthcoming war with Iraq. Then there's some interviews that macneil gave is part of the lessons learned project which we obtain separately McNeil's unusual figuring that he actually served twice as commander of forces in Afghanistan on two separate occasions. And he acknowledges bluntly there there was no strategy. He says he was sent over to Afghanistan both times without any clear marching orders in one memorable line. He says that when he went over over is a commander of all NATO forces in two thousand six he has somebody defined winning for me. What is winning? What do you want to accomplish in Afghanistan? And he said nobody could define it for me. They said go over and do your best and try and do good things So again here's a commander that Bush had forgotten about who has given no clear. Marching orders and said quite bluntly we didn't have a strategy. They just kind of wing did is they went along. You know one of the questions that would have confronted. Policymakers makers was what is the posture. We take towards the Taliban which had ruled the country for many years and was not ruling the the country but clearly a presence in a lot of places negotiate with them. Do you hunt them down and kill them or put them in prison. What was the approach? So this this is a real problem that really reflects the core failings of the war. What do you do with the Taliban and in two thousand one the United States pretty quickly was able to topple apple their hold on power in Kabul and the Afghan government as it were and Taliban leaders were either captured killed or receded to to their villages or across the border in Pakistan In the Afghanistan papers one thing that becomes clear is that many people saw this. In retrospect is a missed east opportunity to negotiate an enduring peace with the Taliban. The Taliban was on its heels. It was it was defeated force But these interview you show that there were some Taliban leaders who were willing to talk at that point who were willing to have a discussion and their role in some kind of future Afghan political system the government but the United States itself as the conquerors at that point it had vanquished Taliban it equated them with terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and it didn't want to negotiate. It wasn't interested at sent many of their leaders off Guantanamo. So in retrospect this this certainly was a potential turning moment in the war in two thousand in two thousand three when we could have talked to. The Taliban did not now. Ironically here we are in two thousand nineteen the end of Twenty nineteen and president. Trump is the the first. US President to approve direct negotiations with the Taliban and the State Department has been trying to cut a deal directly with them for the withdrawal of US troops and some kind of agreement to negotiate a separate peace with the Afghan government. Now I'm sure. The argument against negotiating with the Taliban was look doc. This was a repressive religious regime which imposed oppressive restrictions on women and was truly ethical to all the democratic values is that we uphold so. Let's get them out of the way. Make a clean start and build a new democratic society in Afghanistan. I guess was the dominant thought. That was the dominant thought And it certainly understandable the the problem is that the Taliban while very unpopular and brutal and no question their treatment of women was abysmal. You know this is a really Stone Age thinking that went into their ideology but the Taliban represents tribally religiously a certain sliver of Afghan culture and society and to kind of assume that it could could be vanquished. I think in retrospect wasn't the right decision. It's a force has to be reckoned with and we see that more and more today the other thing was is there was no real foundation for a democratic Afghan society. Like we'd like to think our other partners in the war were warlords warlord's from northern Afghanistan and other parts of the country who were also oppressive brutal. Those are the people. We hitched our wagons to so Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Switzerland. Probably never will be but we kind of had this idea we could turn it into a modern democratic nation and that's been very difficult to pull pull off so two thousand nine. When President Obama takes office the Taliban were back I mean they had be- become a much more effective force in Afghanistan? Ghanistan as the American forces had been born focused on Iraq and Obama unveils a new strategy were were. We're GONNA get serious. What did he proposed post? So Obama adopted a counterinsurgency strategy. And by that he was trying to curtail the insurgency of the Taliban by sending a big surge of US troops one hundred thousand US troops fifty thousand NATO troops to Afghanistan to try and militarily beat back the Taliban while at the same time trying to win the support of the Afghan population by doing various aid projects building up Afghan infrastructure and generally trying to get the Afghan government build up to the point. Where would win the allegiance and supported the population so that Afghan villagers and people in cities would turn against the Taliban so he was essentially rolling the dice that he could build up? An Afghan government would win the support of the people while militarily defending off the Taliban. This is a very expensive proposition both in terms of taxpayer. Money from the United States but also in terms of lies of US troops troops is when the US casualty numbers and rates reached their highest points during the war but there were a number of other problems with his strategy. In retrospect you know the idea that The United States could win hearts and minds of the population was a dubious one because many of the Afghan saw the United States is foreign. Occupiers appears in many of them. Frankly cited with the Taliban they saw them as religious men many of whom were Afghan so it was hard to persuade many people in the countryside countryside that the United States and the Afghan government were a better alternative many Afghans saw the Afghan government as corrupt As his brutal as frankly a worse choice than the Taliban so it was hard to win those hearts and minds both from our perspective but also for the Afghan government we're listening to the interview fresh Air Davies recorded with Craig Whitlock an investigative reporter for the Washington Post who secured internal government documents about the war in Afghanistan through freedom of Information Act lawsuits after a break. They'll talk about wasteful American spending on poorly conceived nation building projects Afghantistan and the chaotic efforts to build up Afghan security forces. I'm Terry Gross. And.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Post Reports
"From the newsroom is room of the Washington Post High. There is the mayor wrestling with the Washington Post. Pick your brain on and this is coach. Reports I'm Martine powers. It's Tuesday December seventeenth today vets respond to the Aghanistan an Alaskan town facing an existential prices and controversial new law in India. The last week the Post published a collection of secret documents and audio recordings of government officials talking candidly about the failures of the war in Afghanistan and how those realities were hidden from the public generals ambassadors and aid workers ars and troops. WHO said this war was a mess and our strategy failed and we didn't know what we were doing literally use those words? That's Craig whitlock the the reporter that broke the story and fought for years to make these secret documents public while on one hand it makes sense because people have known the war hasn't been going well which is why we've been there. Eighteen years to hear a read these people who are in charge of the war admitting how the war was screwed up and that what the American people are being told about the wars wasn't true. It's really kind of mind boggling. If you haven't yet listen to that story from last week I recommend that you go back to hear those recordings. It's it's really remarkable and when the post published this investigation we asked for feedback from some of the people that have been impacted the most veterans who served in Afghanistan Stan and so far we've collected over one hundred and fifty responses so we're going to play some of them. I was like finally. Finally there's proof data that that it's unwinnable that every report that were most. The reports are being written was ally for all of us that went over there and worked so well hard and put our families through so much and there was never a strategy. We were just going through motions chasing ghosts through mounds me and my friends none. All of us were surprised like everything. That's what I'm saying like I when I came back I realized goes like this is not like a war war. This is like this is usually borderline. Ocupation this is not new. This is not news. I mean as news that it was known at that level among multiple administrations. But it's not new anyone anyone that's been paying attention for the last decade and it was the day after I got home. I was visiting friends and I walked into this whole foods. And it's like I hate him off. The poor people hate you all because none of you even remembers that there's a war happening. It's so far removed. And why do you guys get to not care about it when it's your John it's your responsibility is is is the care. And I just can't help but feel like no. We paid the price for a decision maker in Washington. DC's mistakes and it wasn't just us in the price also. Yes any people themselves after you know three years there and you don't see any progress from your perspective when you start to question. What the hell are we doing? There's a lot of feeling like you're you're sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill and you go home for six months and you come back and the rocks at the bottom of the hill and you're like well are pushing it again. You know why when we were there. We had the local elders. They came to US requesting to build the small dam down. Prevent the spring floods earliest limit. Their damage Plans together. Set them up to our headquarters in they came. I'm back the small damn it morphed into a massive hydroelectric dam and the residents of evaluating the overall subsistence farmers who had small herds of goats and sheep. We didn't know what they were going to do. With giant hydroelectric dam. It's not something did they wanted. is practical. Like we couldn't do anything with that and it was just the giant disconnect from what we were seeing you know living with these farmers in alley in what they thought they could do at either the Pentagon or On Barbara was a huge disconnect. It was night and day is basically traveling around interviewing Afghan police. My sense of this has always been that when it came to the police in particular in the quest to build up those forces as quickly as possible particularly particularly twenty ten when we really started to build police in quantity there. Was this feeling of you know. They're being created individually. The screening didn't appear to be very good for who got into had a lot of people coming into the forest who were on drugs a lot of people coming into the forest who are being brought in sort of defacto on mass because they were the militia forces of powerful people who were in police. He's not ready. So you know I would go to places where everyone I would talk to was a cousin of the head of whatever that police police station was and I can you. Can someone bring me someone who's not a cousin of the commander and there just wasn't anyone. There wasn't a family member on NAFTA. You got a lot the cronyism at local levels. I still to this day. Don't question why we went there. But it is clear that we transitioned from eliminate Afghanistan a harbor for transnational terrorist organization to liberals should go to school. And that's important and I like Mike Matt idea but as national security professional that's beyond the strategic abilities. The arming certainly our mission was pretty much. Screw the elections and area we were in. We were in our south. I I noticed it on election day when at two thousand nine when cars I got reelected when I saw the stuffing ballots. I said some squad leader Rosa K.. Like they're stuffing ballots stuffed ballots. I said no one has come your vote today but they're shoving papers into his box. That look like voting ballots. Aren't we here to make sure that this election goes smoothly. It doesn't look like it's going smoothly so I started getting a little. You know deter was there. He was telling what I was saying. Big Up you know. The didn't really appreciate what I was saying to them. So my squad leader put myself instead just monitor the radio. That's what you're we're GONNA do. Tell him to stop doing that as their country their rules and after that I was just like wow this this whole shit is is bogus after that I was just like. I don't know what we're doing. Yeah this is just. I didn't know what we're doing. Why are we there? If they weren't doing things properly.
"afghanistan" Discussed on The Current
"Younger generation to stand against option for you know women's rights and human rights or the justice and for you know better forms of governance Examples are evident in departments in the Afghan civil society and even into government in in government despite the challenges that we have with the government in Afghanistan and challenges. Are there can be a long list of it that I can say but we can see it's mostly led by by a younger generation. Average age is somewhere between Thirty five to forty four. The people got serving serving as key leadership. The government right and you are the director of Afghanistan's largest think tank that wouldn't have been possible under Taliban rule so what you just said and your presence in this job. Does that suggest that there have been improvements as a result of of the US. Lead presence in Afghanistan. Well yes but I tell you this sir. We cannot conclude eighteen years of intervention with a complete failure or complete success story. This is story has both insights one side of it. As I mentioned that I mentioned this now I was mentioning as an activist from the grassroots movements of you know home based literacy classes. as-as back in the time of the war. I'm talking about you know October. November two thousand one I was saying then that military solution was was not a solution to this conflict. And I'm saying it now. Eighteen years on that what I was claiming them as a young Afghan from the grassroots was right is pruned proved right. Because this war is not a war to be fought by bombs by airplanes by dismantling or eliminating some forces it's a war that's requires development requires interventions in poverty. Reduction requires intervention in building infrastructures education providing more opportunity for a country that is deprived because of the war prior to US led war. That started here. So militarization is an absolute absolute failure side but this intervention of the past eighteen years has lots of advantages. The thanks to which I am able to today live in work eric in this country. Thanks to which we have thousands of women working in serving in government. We have hundreds thousands of girls going to school the schools infrastructures or there and it's unprecedented. In comparison to any other time in the history of Afghanistan. The number of schools in the country across across the country particularly in rural areas is unprecedented however when it comes to quality when it comes to train teachers we have a long long way to go so there are positive elements. There are some signs of success that you can see in this past eighteen years but of course it also failures so for people in Canada who are who are reading about these new papers May and who may be asking themselves whether this war was in vain. What's your response? Why does sponsors? That part of his should have not happened. The military part should have not happened. No Canadian deserve to be killed killed here. Just because they've attacked some people on this side. The sources of terrorism in Afghanistan was not hidden here the sources were elsewhere which was not not salk at and so for that reason that part of it sending your sons and daughters for military services in Afghanistan was not really worth it. But then sending your money to rebuild this war ravaged country. Thank you for your for your money and think tanks to your financial assistance in the development inspectors now. We are much better place than any other time before. I'm I'm sure that that some Canadians are listening to you now but they also still worry. Sorry about the specter of corruption in Afghanistan and whether their money actually goes where. It's supposed to go. What do you say to that? Unfortunately corruption is a phenomenon that is the result of massive level of You know financial intervention without any accountability. the sources of corruption Shen or not only national national as well as International. I were making them as for. Accountability are so weak internationally. That bullpens the space where this corruption. So my message to Canadian I please. The Afghan people are taking more Strong steps to the word you know keeping their governments there non-governmental organizations Gore and more accountable more community based system of accountability is the solution to tackle the massive issue of corruption and that's requires some level of conditionality in the funding and support the Canadians and other international partners thus providing to Afghanistan whether they are private sector NGOs or government. All right we will leave it there. Thank you thank you or Zele. The name is the director of the Afghanistan research and evaluation unit an independent research institute based in Kabul. She is in Kabul Afghanistan..
"afghanistan" Discussed on The Current
"On with New York City on my own. The United States military has begun a gun strikes who'd been at war for eighteen years now. We're not winning. We're not losing presidents. Come and go but nothing really seems to change vital national interest to send an additional thirty thousand. US troops staff Ghanistan. Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win. US presidents Bush Obama and trump have all tried to win the war in Afghanistan but the words of those presidents are in stark contrast to a trove of documents published by The Washington Post. It's it's being compared to the Pentagon papers that revealed the failures of the war in Vietnam. The documents show top officials warn. There was no clear plan in Afghanistan. Some even believed the war was already lost. The documents also include revelations about Canada's role in the country the senior defense writer Murray Brewster has been looking into into this. He joins me from our Ottawa. Studio Hello Good Morning. Murray what did you make of what you saw the documents. I covered Afghanistan as the journalist or someone who has been intimately involved from the military development capacity or even politics a lot of what. We're reading here. The individual details. It doesn't surprise many people who have been closely associated with the war. What I believe is significant is to see it laid out in a huge compendium in just in all this detail? I think what's significant about. Vote what we're seeing is the for the first time I think there is now a stirring of conscience in the United States where they have begun to ask themselves very serious questions about why they have been at war for eighteen years. These were the results of interviews that are compiled by the Office of the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan reconstruction with the name of Cigar. Who did they speak to? They spoke to a vast array of United it states officials officials with NATO Both military and civilian political staffers and there's it's a mixture of interviews but also material that they've gleaned notes from Conferences among the documents. You're going to see. Some of the names blanked out there reductions etc where cigar was Attempting to get These people go on the record to talk about it. One of the things that I found incredibly fascinating where some of the lessons learned interviews that were conducted particularly with the the senior military officials and and As someone who sat and interviewed many of the senior military officials I it's interesting to you. Hear how pessimistic and Unguarded they were in those interviews in comparison to some of the Times that I've spoken with them. I'm sure yeah that's true. How prominently did Canada figure in in the interviews? There were a number of documents. I'd say about three dozen documents. That reference Canada into the documents are divided into two thousand documents divided into bins and There's a like looking at corruption option looking at the overall war strategy but looking at NATO as well NATO's involvement and That's where you find. Most of the references to Canada is in NATO and end in the timeframe roughly of two thousand and six two thousand. Seven where there seems to have been A lot of talk either by I US officials who were watching the deteriorating situation in two thousand six and seven Afghans Stanford closely or by military military officials notably General Sir Sir. David Richard Who was the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan at that time He did an interview with seagulls representatives. And he's He's British I remember interviewing him myself and thinking of him as fairly plain talk talk man but he revealed things in his interviews with this with his Rick with reconstruction report that we hadn't heard before what did he reveal about the situation in Kandahar and during his command he was very blunt and very plainspoken and he talked about how there were not enough troops on the ground and one of the things that I found incredible was that he recounted a conversation that he had with the then. US Defense Fence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld where he said directly to the US defense secretary there are not enough troops on the ground because Donald Rumsfeld was gobsmacked act at the increase in violence in two thousand and six and Essentially Richard said that we don't have enough resources and we don't have enough troops on the ground and end Rumsfield blew him off basically dismissed him and said that I don't agree with you like move on general and that's significant for Canada because at that point in the war. Canadian troops were under daily assault by a resurgent Taliban and There were casualties. we were suffering at that time as a nation. Our first major casualties in terms of killed and wounded almost on a daily basis and it led up to the fall of two thousand six the operation Medusa where because the Taliban had dug in west of Kandahar city and they had to be removed and it was just a spiral of violence and it shocked not only the Canadian public but the Canadian government. The Canadian government was looking for reinforcements was looking for NATO to send help to southern Afghanistan and here Donald Rumsfeld was essentially blowing that off. Why Hey he was blowing off I think for a couple of reasons? The first is that The Americans were fully engaged in Iraq at that point Iraq Iraq had Completely spiraled out of control and the US pouring more of its or most of its attention and money and its troops into Iraq to stabilize the situation there. That's the first thing but also to the Bush administration subscribed to a a notion that wars could be fought with lightly Light forces not a lot of Like heavy I'd guess Big Armies the best way to describe it Forces where you have a large amount of troops going into an area to suppress it and it took several years for not only the The Bush administration but for commanders including Canadian commanders to come around to the idea that that they needed an incredible amount of Of reinforcements to stabilize the situation in Afghanistan. Now now on Monday Our Defense Minister who served in Afghanistan was asked about these revelations. He had this to say there's no conflict It is very very complex once. We had a good understanding of what was going on. That's when figuring. This is not just a military solution. You need to start looking. At how how you do development. How do you look at the capacity building so a lot of lessons were learned very early on one thing that I can probably say the cleaner on horses and Resources that was put in by Canada had a substantial impact. What do you make of that response? Well let me just put it this way. I think it took the Canadian military. Awhile to make that logic leap the ministers talking about how You know once they had figured it out well it took them an incredible amount of time to figure it out. It took them a couple of years to do that but also to what the documents Kamenz show is that Canada knew that it did not have not only enough troops on the ground but enough financial financial resources to help stabilize the situation. It's one of the things that that General Richards mentions in his debrief to Seger. Is that Canada and in Britain did not have enough financial resources. Because you see when you go into a conflict and when you try to stabilize An an area during a counterinsurgency war you have troops that go in to clear the area but then they're followed up by development projects reconstruction to be able to Win Hearts and minds if we have to use that well worn phrase and there was an acknowledgement by Richards in these documents that the Canada and Britain which was in Helmand province adjacent Kandhar did not have enough resources to be able to do that. And that contributed to to the deterioration of the situation and the the extension of the war and It Richards noted that it was only the United States that had had the resources and the ability to be able to go into a certain area and be able to put enough troops on the ground and then then stabilized belies with by putting by rebuilding roads but rebuilding bridges by getting the power stations. Working again all right Mary much more to talk about. But we're going to have to leave it there for now. People people can see more reading reading your stories online today at CBC DOT CA. Thanks so much Mary you're welcome Murray Brewster the CBC's Senior Defense Redder. He was in our Ottawa Studio Studio. Retired colonel pat stolen can relate to the revelations in the Afghan papers. He was a key commander during Canada's move into the volatile Kandahar province in two thousand thousand six and he later became Canada's.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Post Reports
"<Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Speech_Music_Female> So <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> if the <Speech_Male> original concept <Speech_Female> of conducting <Speech_Male> all of these incredibly <Speech_Male> honest interviews <Speech_Male> was <Speech_Male> to make something <Speech_Male> that was essentially <Speech_Music_Male> lessons <Speech_Male> learned <Speech_Male> the fact that <Speech_Female> they haven't <Speech_Female> been made public the <Speech_Female> fact that there has been a <Speech_Female> huge fight to <Speech_Female> get them out <Speech_Female> into the world for people <Speech_Female> to be able to read <Speech_Male> and understand what's in <Speech_Male> them do. Do <Speech_Female> you feel like <Speech_Female> lessons are <Speech_Male> actually <SpeakerChange> being <Speech_Music_Male> learned. <Speech_Male> No I think <Speech_Male> this is <Speech_Male> why they weren't <Speech_Male> and that's why we're still <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> there Afghanistan <Speech_Male> with no clear your <Speech_Male> plan for getting <Speech_Male> out. Although the trump administration <Speech_Music_Male> is trying to negotiate <Speech_Music_Male> a <Speech_Music_Male> peace deal with the Taliban <Speech_Music_Male> but <Speech_Music_Male> from the war objectives. <Speech_Music_Male> <Speech_Male> Those lessons <Speech_Male> are apparent. Errant <Speech_Male> what the problems <Speech_Male> were <Speech_Male> but in terms of learning <Speech_Male> a lesson and how <Speech_Male> to avoid them in the future <Speech_Male> and come up with a new strategy <Speech_Music_Male> <Speech_Music_Male> or <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> especially if <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> we ever get involved vowed <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> in another war. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> I <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> think those lessons <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> still have not been <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> learned. People <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> are aware <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> of the problems <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> in Congress <Speech_Music_Male> in the <Speech_Music_Male> government but it <Speech_Male> again. <Speech_Male> There has never really <Speech_Male> been public reckoning <Speech_Male> about it. There hasn't been <Speech_Male> a public conversation. <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> There hasn't <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> been a public accounting <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> of <Speech_Male> what went wrong. And <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> why and certainly <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> not to hold <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> individual officials <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> responsible <SpeakerChange> for any <Music>
"afghanistan" Discussed on Post Reports
"Proceeded to relate to us that the mob gotten out of control at the airport and had murdered two ministers solidification. He giggle while he related. This much later emerged. I don't know if it was ever verified immersed I am a fiend continent headmaster killed but I certainly came out of those opening months feeling that even by Afghan standards the person the substance of this is that the United Tastes had to work very very closely with Fahim Khan. For many years he died in two thousand fifteen. I believe it was and later in his recording crocker occurred is almost joking with the interviewer care. The good thing about him con is that he is dead. Check always talking but again. The perspective isn't just that he was this scary evil character but this is one of our closest allies is in Afghanistan. The question the war for them as who are the good guys who were the bad guys and in these interviews the documents and recordings people repeatedly say either this. They say I couldn't tell who the good guys were. The bad guys the troops who go over and say show me where the bad guys are so I could fight them and this was unclear. Clear a Lotta Times. A bad guys were on our side. That is the question the debate that still going on to this day and is reflected in these interviews documents and recordings things that there is real disagreement with among US officials as to where to draw that line do we just take him inside and have a stern talking tune intel not to do it again to demand the be kicked out a government to we arrest them by Michael Flynn for instance had a very different perspective from Crocker on on what to do about Fahim. Khan I mean that would've meant confronting people Fahim be small hunt. Yeah that's right and when that when that happened you may remember this. You know there was an attempt to confront Fahim 's crew air force generals right and I think you may remember how that turned out. I was in his office. I was not pretty and you know what arrest the guy. This is the combat zone so flynn was one of those people who was saying that he felt the. US should have been more aggressive in trying to keep people in line or to Dole out punishments to people who they felt. Were doing doing bad things being corrupt Flynn would say yes. We didn't hold people accountable enough high up in the Afghan government. I mean there's a a Lotta guys that should have been arrested. You know you got to have accountability and so that that's part of the problem of instilling confidence in a population that they see it happening right in front of their eyes. We see it happening and we. We don't look the other way we actually actually enable it. I'll give you a good story of probably one of the wealthiest people in Afghanistan. Today he started out as a young Surfer Flint tells the story of an interpreter. Who was working with you as military also calls him a Terp for short talk about lack of accountability? So so the military commander is using this term and commander says I need this to this guy. He's talking to WHO's an Afghan. It doesn't understand anything tells the term you know and the guy says he says I'll buy it from you and Terp says okay and he wants to buy from your are. Are you willing to sell. You is yes this is what I'll sell it for. And he says well. How much is a cell to me for? The TERP says talk to the Guy Guy says a couple of hundred dollars Terp says twenty thousand so says okay no problem gives the couple hundred talks. Takes the rest if you remember that the US military and the State Department and International aid organisations. They couldn't speak to two languages Afghanistan. The two national languages are Dari and Pashto. Even today. We're still in Afghanistan. You you tell me how many how many actual. US members hours of our military US members of the military or policy people from the state that actually speak are too. It's a handful. So that's Shane chain. That's a policy decision. So we're really dependent on translators and interpreters to help us communicate but also figure out the lay the land. This was a common scene. You'd see as as a reporter there. I would see this happen where it was military be dependent on interpreter and sort of operate on the assumption that the interpreter is seeing their best interests. When in fact Flynn is saying that the interpreters jacking up the price unbeknownst to the Americans and he keeps doing that and keeps running and keeps doing the money's more and more and he's cutting deals? Everybody loves this interpreter. Everybody thinks the world he would see these interpreters become multimillionaires over time. Probably one of the wealthiest people in Afghanistan today. He owns a couple thanks. He owns a rental. Su The service. He started out as a young trevor. He says this was clear. This was is going on but again the United States just kind of let it happen is trying to crack down on it. I just think that you know how many others of him are there. That's right that's right. I mean there's there's probably hundreds of those types of individuals who benefited. Because frankly we. I didn't know what the Hell we're doing. We're not exactly sure who. The interpreter is that General Flynn is referring to if he identified the person in his interviews cigar. That section was redacted by the Inspector General for privacy reasons So then if all of this stuff was happening on the ground in Afghanistan why couldn't US officials be more public about that. And what did Michael Flynn say about. About the fact that the state of things on the ground was pretty bad and yet we were hearing. This message of things are improving. Afghanistan is getting better with every passing ENGA- well if they admit things are screwed up then there would be public pressure to pull out or in the war and nobody went to admit defeat. And so this is a problem. You this on Vietnam to. This isn't the first time in a war this has happened. This is really has strong. Echoes what happened during the Vietnam War where the military commanders or the presidents or secretaries of state would say well. It's a tough road. They're still fighting going on but we're making progress. We're making in progress. Because they don't want people to think that people are dying in vain or that. We're sending more troops or money to Afghanistan if it's a wasted 'cause commanders. Commanders and policymakers on the spectrum of news they want to be always good news operational commanders and State State Department policymakers for Department of Defense Policy makers they are going to be inherently rosy in their assessments and be unacceptable accepting of hard hitting intelligence and yet Flynn's is saying that it was clear on the ground that we were losing. We were not winning that despite spite. What the American people are being talked publicly things were not going? Well after I think two thousand six for me it was irrelevant because we we were just telling so many people it was making any difference at all. It's hard for military commander to admit things aren't going well to say we screwed up where we made a mistake or our strategy was flawed. None of them are geared to say that and nobody would admit the reality what was going on. And that's what's so striking about what Michael Flynn and other people. Seeing these recordings and interviews say was apparent we were losing. It was apparent. Things weren't weren't going well and yet in public people in the government kept telling the American people things were were moving forward. We're making progress and you know. That's a pretty damning comment comment. We hear it time and time and time again in these things if you go back and you look at the mission statement for every battalion and every brigade from the beginning of the war the essentially are all the same. You know it's defeat and destroy. The enemy protect the population. So they all went in every whatever. Their rotation was for a year nine months six months whatever their rotation was they all went in and they and they were given that mission they accept the debt mission the executed that mission and then they all said when they left left the accomplish that mission every single commander. Not One commander is going to leave Afghanistan or Iraq or anyplace. Not One is gonNA leave and go. You know what we didn't accomplish our mission okay. So if the next guy that shows up up finds it screwed up that wow man we just did a right seat ride. We had a great right see by our week long. Did our high fives. We're now in there. They do their mission analysis once they get on the ground and then they come back and they go man. This is really bad but yet the last time and last regiment that you just replaced. They said they accomplish their mission. They got all these wonderful stats about what they did. But the next guy that shows up and I'm telling you this is from from two thousand and two until today okay so somewhere along our our system and this includes the State Department Basler's local down down at the local level. Everybody did a great job all doing a great job really so for doing such a great job. Why does it feel like we were losing?.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Post Reports
"Enormity of the task and what did he say about how the the US was doing in terms of trying to help build back some of Kabul and some of Afghanistan. Well there is a real debate going on in the Bush administration at that point. Do we get involved in. In nation building in Afghanistan. We leave that to other countries in the United Nations. One point we couldn't tell what the task was what the US was there to do. There was a significant difference in view in Washington as to whether we should embark on a long-term nation building effort or order we wanted to par rolling our agenda very minimal when George W Bush had run for President President in two thousand against Al Gore. One of his campaign themes was I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building and like our our troops ought to be used to to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to to help overthrow a dictator. That's in our innocent. When it's in our best interests interests he had seen the Clinton administration had tried to do in Somalia and Haiti Somalia? Start off as humanitarian mission then changed into the nation building mission and that's where the mission went wrong and same with Haiti. I wouldn't have supported either but I'm GONNA be judicious as to how to use. The military needs to be in our vital interests and mission needs to be clear earlier in the exit strategy. Obvious so sure enough right. After Bush gets elected. He's faced with his choice. Now what do I do and Afghanistan they toppled the Taliban Taliban they chased al Qaeda Way. What responsibility do we have to rebuild Afghanistan and this was a debate that Crocker talks about we sure Gusau Rumsfeld at work saying minima minimum? Our job is about killing bad guys so we will have killed the bad guys. Who cares what happens next? That's their problem. And if in a decade and half we have to go in and kill more bad guys we can do that too. But we're not going to get in nation-building so so Ryan Crocker says. They were slow to come to that realization that they needed to take a key role in the reconstruction but that lack of initial widespread agreement about what exactly their role was and reconstruction. How did that become apparent on the ground in Afghanistan? Well for one they just always in we'd. US troops is there and diplomats and they had to function you know they had to try and get an embassy up and operating really. They were left with a shell of a building that they had occupied ski Pie twenty-seven years before how do they get from one part of the country the other there's no highways there's old goat as dirt roads toward a river because bridge was a very sobering experience. Then there wasn't almost literally nothing there. How do they get this country to? You can fly in and fly out. That took a long time just to do anything. In terms of military operations they needed to get some basic infrastructure up and going. You mentioned that one theme that came up in many of these interviews is the fact that people were really concerned about the corruption that they saw was that something that was the Crocker talked about during interview yes. Crocker was a key player in trying to determine how to respond to that particularly during his second second stint there in the. US Embassy in Kabul during the Obama Administration by then the levels of corruption had gotten very very bad in Afghanistan. Dan got very significant military presence. it'd be a whole lot of stuff you have to remember at that point. We're pumping the United States is pumping in billions and billions of dollars a year and Afghantistan whether it's direct aid paying for their troops troops and police paying to rebuild roads. Count on those amounts of money into a very federal state and society So it really ran the gamut the corruption it could be Afghan police having check points on the road demanding money money for someone to pass whether you're an Afghan farmer. Somebody going to school but also was very high level. Corruption terms of one of the biggest banks in Afghanistan Kabul Bank went belly up next customers have been pulling their savings out of Kabul bank as fast as they. Can you have to understand Ghanistan when we invaded. Aided they didn't have banks they just had money exchanges Hawalas which are the Islamic financial system of these money transfers but they build up a bank and the brother of Hamad Karzai Hamid Karzai's president of Afghanistan. One of his brothers helped run this bank. Kabo bankers biggest private bank in the country tree. This bank also was a repository directly or indirectly of most of the US and international aid. All this money to a large degree was is getting funneled through Kabul blank and it became apparent in two thousand ten that Kabul Bank. All of a sudden was on the verge of collapse that there were rumors was flying that they didn't have enough money to cover their loans because it was so mismanaged and because people were theoretically taking money out of mismanages and even cover it that that this is people giving loans to themselves millions and millions and millions of dollars in loans. Never having to pay them back so I think the investigators rescuers who were looking into say was more than mismanagement who was outright theft and fraud to such a degree that it was run like a Ponzi scheme former president doesn't Hamad Karzai his brother Mahmoud Karzai. He's denied any criminal or personal wrongdoing. Although of course acknowledges given that the bank almost melted down that there were a number of very serious management issues at the bank. So this was the kind of thing that Ryan Crocker was looking at and saying that as the chief U. S. diplomat in Afghanistan. He's confronted with this problem. Do we hold anyone accountable. By the time I was fairly clear to me that MM Cuban the entrenched in nature of corruption and the extent to which the establishment including Karzai's own family famously aimlessly Louis. Kahn was highly unlikely to be taken to bring people to account so Ryan Crocker says essentially. Oh his feeling was that the corruption was so bad in so ingrained in the government and the Afghan elite that there was wasn't much the United States could do about it and simply wanted nature corruption whether it's Kabul Bank or else is now beyond the armed the ability of common action president. Greg this unresolved unresolved problem that persists to this day really and Crocker's argument is yes they were corrupt. It was a mess but by that point it become so ingrained. I don't think there was realistically much we could do about it now. A Lotta other people will disagree with him on that. What are some of the other examples of corruption then? Dan Cracker notice in trying to deal with well. One person he mentioned in came up in his recording was a notorious Afghan warlord word called Muhammad Qasim Fahim Khan Dada Cash Tajik warlord who is one of our allies when we invaded Afghanistan in two thousand one you have to remember when we started bombing. The country in two thousand one on our allies were warlords for the most part people who were opposed to the Taliban and they were on our side only because they oppose the Taliban and al Qaeda but he he was also a pretty rough figure Afghans. This is a guy who had his own militia and suddenly found himself as the defense minister and vice president of Afghanistan. He's not a clean figure known for good government. This is a guy known for being pretty rough on his enemies Crocker had talked talked about first meeting Fahim. Khan being out and that point he he knew for him. Khan was this militia leader. He was the warlord from the northern part of Afghanistan. He was going to be in charge of the Afghanistan Defense Ministry not surprisingly. The early doesn't to the chargers got all messed up. You had people stranded at the airport and cold temperatures for hours if not days. There was a minister of civilization. was supposed to be in charge of all of this and one night. Jon Call the British Force Commander and I will meeting with Karzai fairly and seen Khan walked into the room. He was giggling.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Worldly
"Called today explained it drops every afternoon around four five o'clock right in time for your evening and Commute on one day we'll do the entire history of slavery and why it isn't being taught correctly in schools across the country the next day you'll hear from the Philadelphia rapper from meek mill all about his trials and tribulations getting booked on some charges when he was nineteen and then being on probation for over a decade after that trying to finally finally put an end to his involvement in the criminal justice system another show in the same week we took seven hours of a CNN climate policy marathon with the ten leading Democratic candidates and boiled it down into a digestible twenty minutes explainer for you and we closed out the week with an episode episode about Gerrymandering that features ACDC and Metallica and somehow like a notch random way. You gotta hear it to believe it today. Explain now. I'm playing wherever your podcasts are playing all right welcome back we are talking about the cheery three top of US failures Afganistan and why it seems like the United States can't win this war and we've been focusing primarily on the American enemy right now the Taliban and its association al Qaeda what has made it a relatively effective insurgent organization but there's sort of a flip side of the story. It's it's the US is trying to build up a partner her government so when it leaves there will be this central administrative state that can rule Afghanistan and prevent the todd from coming back into place. I accept this central government the US has been supporting has been very bad at being a central government and and I want to talk about why because I'm not sure I fully understand the reasons ben talk to me about the Afghan government. Maybe the dirty word of this an eighteen year long conflict is that it has morphed from a counterinsurgency counterinsurgency war from Delta Force Special Forces in the caves in the north of Afghanistan to really an effort of nation building and that's the thing that the United States hasn't done particularly well it doesn't have great attention span for and they face a particularly problematic landscape with regard to Afghanistan as I said before it is been dominated donated by strongmen warlords tribal associations familial ties that are entirely alien to western American in concept of government and that has been extraordinarily difficult compound that with the fact that you're rotating troops and leaders through I mean how many of our listeners here can actually name name a general McChrystal portray us and it's hard to even remember them. Those were years ago. We've been constantly rooting through our best and finest military commanders for a couple of years at a time with administrations that waiver in terms of their commitment to this conflict whereas you know in the on the Afghan in the ground in cub all the capital of Afghanistan nominally the capital but not a place that exercises full control over the country. It has been extraordinarily problematic. You've had as Alex said corruption you've had leadership that is rent by tribal factions and allegiances to part of the country but not other parts. This is a distillation of hundreds of years of tribal association and conflict but it isn't extraordinarily extraordinarily difficult place to build a government from the start and we started with you know importing. Hamid Karzai after a conference in Bonn in in September October of two thousand one bringing in a leader from exile who had a certain degree of authority but was really someone living outside the country and not to say that that was the original sin but that was emblematic of so many of the failures. I I think Ben I don't know if I'd put as much weight on hundreds of years of history and and tribalism as you would but I would say under any circumstances. It's quite difficult to demolish a government. I mean we did just destroy the Taliban two thousand and one and then try to put in a new one in its place especially one that doesn't have much of a history of bureaucratisation of a civil service of all these different things does that make an effective state in the mold of the United States believes ineffective state to be and try new install one when people are just like well. I could just take some of this money that it is going to the central state and give it to my family and my friends crushing is almost a natural state of things. It's very difficult for any government to get rid of it. let alone one. That's been Kroft. Foreigners sure I mean look at the way that we think about government right. There's an inherent sense of legitimacy that is born of the vote is born of government services that we give the sort of imprimatur in the agency to our government Afghanistan's government in two thousand one zero of that they were brought in from the outside and posed by a foreign power you know at the tip of the spear by guns and force as the Taliban fled into villages and out of the country and they didn't have communications they didn't have money they didn't never way to give services to these villages and places cut off that had never heard of these leaders who had been brought in from Germany so it was an enormously difficult enterprise right in the beginning. It's it's worth being specific about what this kind of endemic corruption looks like in Afghanistan. It's pretty nutty so the US has an inspector general called Sagar that looks at Afghanistan on and they just did a report this August on the state of the Afghan government and the US war effort there and they found something really astonishing which is that the size of the Afghan military had gone down by forty two thousand soldiers. This wasn't because you know forty. Two thousand people quit the military who defected. It's because those four thousand people literally did not exist. They were are basically fictions on paper for people to pay out money to themselves or people they wanted to be paying the problem called go soldiers and it's been endemic in Afghanistan Anniston as long as the US has been doing this nation military building effort. It's a really serious issue and when the illustrates the degree to which the attempt to construct rocked a military is hampered by corruption and a lack of institutional restraints on individual behavior so I want to take a step back and understand just the audacity of that project right so one we decided to not only install a government but try to create a democratic legitimate one and then on top of that train and build up a military force to defend that government and also act like a normal military That's an that's huge is that there's no wonder it requires eighteen years plus to do that and it's another reason why I think when we talk about what can the US win. Afghanistan why hasn't it. It's because we've built up the goals. We've basically been like we have to stay until Afghanistan can govern itself until it can work like a Western style state and that was always is going to be a decades long project the original goals of like defeat al Qaeda. We've kind of done that to a certain extent in Afghanistan. They're still budgetarist groups. There defeat defeat the Taliban were kind of losing on that. They're gaining ground. Although there is information lately that looks like we are starting to get a lot of them gained back some territory so okay so that's also so possibility but man if the goal now is stay until a government can govern itself and country can govern itself and be Western style than no like like of course this is going to be a decade you know honestly I think the US gave up on this notion that Afghanistan would ever be a western style government or state many years ago and is is just sort of drifted into this bizarre limbo where leaving isn't the right answer putting more troops in certainly in the right answer but look I mean this was a war from the from the Gecko that was supported and one in large part because of Mujuhedeen sort of guerrilla armies that were supported boarded an allied with the US did they love the US no not really but maybe they hated the Taliban more of the Taliban had come into their regions and that like we talk about the Afghan National National Army and all its myriad problems that is true there are still other armies all across Afghanistan that the US supported or hasn't disarmed better still armed that still have their own allegiances that still have their own ideals and missions and goals and it's this complicated morale so the the idea. I think that this would be ever be a state and links at least in the sort of fundamental thinking of US military and strategic planners that there's only one army that there's only one government government that went out the window a long time. It's also strange the way the US military has approached it to a degree right like we've had this plan of not only let's build up a kind of liberal democratic state but let's build up a professional big style military and so that means like building bases that have full electrical infrastructure and in one of my favorite examples goals that I read from someone who was a US military officer they're treadmills they just put in there and these places didn't have electricity these forward operating bases so they put these he's treadmills in these basis and no one would ever use them they'd say in plastic wrap because Afghanistan didn't have the capacity to run a military base along the lines of what a US military base as look like it just we were imposing our own pattern of what a military should look like on. Afghan realities not adapting tooth and I and I think in in some ways that's the thought that I'd like to leave you all and we'd all like to leave you with today. Is that trying to make Afghanistan Ghanistan fit the image of the United States or an image that is in view Americans had about what ought to look like is doomed project and and one that was never going to see no matter how many administration tried to do and so I want to thank our producer Bird Pinkerton an and I want to encourage all of you to rate Subscribe Review Worldly wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks lots next week.
"afghanistan" Discussed on Pantsuit Politics
"I want everybody to come to Camp David. It and I want to have talks with the government and talks with the Taliban and do this thing and have a big splashy deal result from it kate small problem the Taliban does not recognize the Afghan government as legitimate and they are not willing to roll into Camp David and and let Donald trump fix that historic conflict which is far more complicated then just withdrawing US troops and just withdrawing US troops. This is really really complicated. The Afghan government and President Ghani don't really want to do this Camp David thing either but they don't have much of a choice because elections ends are supposed to happen in Afghanistan at the end of this month and the United States has been Kinda saying I need you to hold off on those elections until we do this deal with the Taliban and a the political uncertainty surrounding the president of Afghanistan has kind of compelled him to come to the table but the Taliban says we aren't coming to Camp David until we have a final deal come to celebrate that deal but we will not come to finish it and we will not come to the table with Afghanistan's government armament so the Taliban as it does sins messages through violence and the violence starts ramping up including a car bomb that killed killed twelve people one of whom was an American soldier Army Sergeant First Class L. S. Angel- correggio Ortiz and that's when even the Camp David summit was never really on for sure it was decidedly off and there was no reason for any of this to be public but the president started tweeting about it. I love this sentence from the New York Times. It was highlighted in axios email this morning it says on display were all of the characteristic traits of the trump presidency the yearning ambition for the Grand Prize the endless quest to achieve what no other president has achieved the willingness to defy convention the volatile mood swings and the tribal in fighting that just about sums it up and I think what's so unfortunate disgusting tragic as that he's a TV president and we have all breathlessly debated the Camp David invitation the peace negotiation how realistic any of this was to begin with but the reality is that the people of Afghanistan will suffer real violence because of this have already suffered decades of violence because of the US policy in Afghanistan and because of the terrorism of Al Qaeda because of the Taliban and so to play this out for maximum impact to tweet about it to be ready and willing to shred these norms and to be so dismissive and flippant with these peace negotiations she ations. It's just these are the people whose lives hang in the balance not to mention our military members who are in Afghanistan and hurry put at risk and it's just it's so gross. It's like this is not a season finale. This is a real thing that has caused so much trauma in the lives of Americans in the lives of Afghans and there's no seeming recognition or acknowledgment meant that this is serious and this is not a reality show in that real people will lose their lives because of your flippant tweeting and I wanted to go back through that history because it is a reminder to me that this has been such a quagmire and all these talks are so fragile that we Marie living the situation where we were going to try to work with the Taliban under the Obama Administration and we lost that opportunity and we were there again at that fragile moment and you can debate all day the wisdom of trying to negotiate with a group like the Taliban and I have no idea what the right answer is. I think think pragmatically if the United States is going to see an Afghanistan not controlled by the Taliban we're going to be there forever right. There's just snow withdrawal and your history was good but the history of that country in violence and conflict like this starts way before September eleventh. That's the other thing I mean we're talking about. Sinche of conflict with major nations inside Afghanistan Russia England like with this is not that we're not the first ones at this Rodeo and the poor people of this country continue to suffer in the meantime and I think we're kind of shredding president trump trump for the wrong thing here is I do think working with the Taliban is just almost necessary if we are going to withdraw troops. I don't see another way and it's a huge gamble and I don't know if it will work in the precious I mean it just seemed like the most important media story was the preciousness of an invitation. I can't David and I'm like I don't. I think that's the takeaway here with love like if we want to have our station as a country about Afghanistan it's not because we need to treat the Camp David invitations with such sacredness and preciousness like that's not that's not the important part here. It's just isn't if conference it can't David could get this based on if that were meaningful to the parties at the table it might be worth thinking about you think about how many Americans have died in Afghanistan and how many civilians have died in Afghanistan Ghanistan. It might be worth doing that but that's not why Camp David was under consideration and that's not why the deal fell apart the deal fell apart in my reading of the reporting because this president wanted to do the final deal himself without understanding standing all of the intricacies of it and that is the prospective danger for the United States politically and as as you well said the danger for our soldiers and for people in Afghanistan is exponential because of this and and because he you decided to take it public when he didn't need to do that you know this I extended an invitation for the flash and razzle-dazzle of IT and now I'm re sending it for that. Same reason is a terrible way to conduct our foreign policy so we are not the only people who think that foreign policy via tweet is a bad idea. We are not the only people who think that inside the Republican Party because we have another Republican Party Challenger and here's a funny story when we were in California we we're going to record a nightly nuance about Joe Walsh and we started recording and I was like I mean it's not like he's still running ought to his girlfriend. In South American Beth those like hold up that's Mark Sanford and I'm like it's not him and then I thought it was the guy who yelled you liar at Obama and it wasn't him either and now to keep me doubly doubly confused now Mark Sanford the guy who ran off to South America actually is running against Donald trump in the primary. Yes he is and many of you. We reached out to us to say what is with the canceled primary headlines because Mark Sanford is end. Joe Walsh is in Bill Weld is in but there are several states that have announced they will not hold primaries so Friday Kansas said no caucuses here in twenty twenty for the Republican Party on Saturday South Carolina and Nevada did the same thing Arizona is expected to cancel as well so I want to try to answer the questions y'all asks. Can they do this. Yes they can the parties set their own rules about the primaries in the Republican Party the states decide what they wanNA. Do they have to lock Tober I to decide that the RNC doesn't have a role here. This is purely up to the state parties. has this happened before yes it has in two thousand four ten states canceled primaries to support George W Bush in Nineteen Ninety six eight states canceled primaries on the Democratic side to Support Court Bill Clinton Two thousand twelve ten state primaries were cancelled his support President Obama parties save a lot of money by not having their contests when they have an incumbent coming in the White House Nevada's. GOP says they'll save one hundred and fifty thousand dollars by not doing this Kansas will say two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The point is the parties would rather spend their there money on the races that are competitive than have a primary when there is an incumbent and this has been really strategic the trump campaign has worked hard to take over the state parties and install their people bill weld told CBS News that he's not talking to state parties because they're all run by people and so this isn't unprecedented precedent. Did what I think is abnormal is just that donald trump is abnormal right but that's kind of where we are so I wonder what this means for for these guys running against him in the primary I mean it's happened before but in two thousand four I mean president. Bush didn't really have any major challenges so I wonder what this means for. These big name challengers injures how hard they'll push stay on the ballot in these state primaries you know Joe Walsh is probably going to be best positioned to make a stink about this just because he understands media so well. I've been thinking about Boris Johnson. Stay with me for a second in his decision to expel the MP's is who voted against him on the brexit timetable from the conservative partying and how disgusting I find that on one hand and how honest I find it on the other there is a part of me. That feels like maybe this is just another moment in that bone breaking process around whether the Republican Party is anything besides Donald Trump's party and it seems to me that it's not and I appreciate Mark Sanford Joe Walsh and Bill Weld while none of them are perfect messenger and we could spend a lotta time going through their imperfections but what's the point of that thank you to three people who've said what's happening is unacceptable and I'm willing to do something about it. Even though I know what I'll be put through that process I'm thrilled that they're doing this and I I also think the fact that two former governors and this party isn't going to hold a primary you know former representative in Congress these are serious various people who have benefited the party for a long time and if State Parties and the National Organization aren't pressing thing to have a real debate about whether future this party is when the incumbent president is as chaotic and divisive vices as this one then I think it is true that the GOP is not a party other than the Party of Donald Trump and maybe we just need to get there and say it out loud and acknowledge aged so that something else can form or whatever happens happens but I don't know I feel more. I expected to feel angry. Sorry about this and what I feel more just a continuation of sad an resigned. I also often think about how especially in a democracy when you try to silence it only makes the voices louder because you can't because as much as he would like to be an autocrat he's not and so when he tries to shut it down you know because he can't do that. Completely is just just going to give life. It's just emboldens people. It just makes them think that you're afraid of what they have to say. It's easy to accuse you of sort of strongman techniques techniques and being afraid of coming up against challengers and so I mean if I was the trump campaign I would say no leave the doors wide open. It's fine because the more you try to restrict restrict them. The more you give them oxygen to grow. I totally agree with that. I would love to see a a mass exodus of people from the party saying this is unacceptable to me. You know when I my first reaction when I read that New York Times piece about this was I'm just so glad that I changed my registration. I don't want any part live. This is awful and I don't want any part of it and I wish more people would step up to say I don't want any part of this. I've heard the argument and I made it for a long time. If you stay inviting fighting you try to shift it but the deck is clearly stacked. You know what trump noses casinos and the house wins in casinos and I think the party is right now Beth thirty one compliment this week. I'd like to Compliment Governor Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan. She has done something hard. She made a campaign promise that she would not sign a budget into the law that did not appropriate some meaningful amount towards two point five billion dollars needed to fix Michigan's roads and bridges and she has decided to push that to the side right now to move forward in negotiations to finish the state's budget by October first and I just WanNa say that stinks that is difficult. That's miserable and it is the hard realistic work of governing and I applaud her for recognizing recognizing that having a budget is better than not having a budget even if everything isn't as you want in that budget and I think she will build relationships and credibility ability and be able in the long term to continue working on these issues that Michigan deserves to have worked on because of her willingness to compromise here and and very few people people are going to give her any Kudos for this so I wanted to be one of the few that will so I want to compliment the University of Tennessee. This is not very political but I love it so much I can't stop thinking about it and I have to talk about it so this little boy hand made his own own University of Tennessee shirt like he drew logo on a piece of paper and pinned it to his tee-shirt and he got bullied because of it and they remained him so so as teacher sort of put a call out on facebook and University of Tennessee not only sent them a big box of University of Tennessee Paraphernalia. They then took his design and have made it a real T. shirt y'all and it just it is warming my heart so much also because I was a child who wants tried to make my own t shirt I wanted to Arthur t shirts so bad so at pinned a cardboard cutout of globe to a T. shirt and and I just the open heartedness and like they've they've like some of his like his drawing spray paint on a couple of things around campus. I just love the way they've responded to this and totally embraced this little boy in made his life and said like new monitoring your design. We love your design. It doesn't matter what anybody else says. I'm telling you tearing up right now. So sweet I love it and is a big thing for people sitting in Kentucky to complement. The University of Tennessee is right go to University of Tennessee Fan. That's enough to turn me. Oh next step..
"afghanistan" Discussed on Pantsuit Politics
"Washington. DC Susan Page and in Dallas with MJ Jay Hager so follow the Lincoln show notes and come see what we do live and in person. Let's start with Afghanistan today. Everyone knows the president resident did some tweeting over the weekend and it helps me to take a few steps back from the tweets which do elevate my blood pressure to think about where we are overall. You can hear so much more detail about all of this in this series that we produced last year commemorating September eleventh and we'll put a link to that in our show notes just to kind of level set especially if you weren't with us for that series after the September eleventh attacks we you got a joint resolution signed into law by President Bush authorizing force against those responsible for the attacks so that was signed on September eighteenth of two thousand one and and that is the basis for our invasion of Afghanistan among lots of other things and we are still there today because of that authorization nation from eighteen years ago after that authorization the United States commenced airstrikes al Qaeda and the Taliban so let's talk about those people are I just remember at the Taliban is a Sunni Islamic fundamentalist political movement in Afghanistan. The Taliban refers to itself off as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and in two thousand one when we got that authorization for use of force the Taliban was basically running running Afghanistan they held power over seventy five percent of the country and President Bush blamed them for giving safe haven to al Qaeda he believed that Al Qaeda could not have carried out the attack on the United States without the Talibans support so we've been at war Afghanistan ever since and it has I've had lots of ebbs and flows in two thousand four things were looking pretty good. Afghanistan created a constitution. We said that was a positive step toward democracy. There were elections in president. Karzai was elected with fifty five percent of the vote. Then things got really weird on both sides and particularly in America we started the processing what had happened on September eleventh. We started thinking about the invasion of Iraq and connection with that we got totally disillusioned and war-fatigued eight and that is a very short summary of what occurred President Obama gets elected. He vows to withdraw from Afghanistan but in two thousand nine there was escalating violence is there and he recommitted an increase our troops he tried to narrow the extremely broad and almost unknowable mission in Afghanistan to defeating Al Qaeda data and preventing its return then two thousand eleven president Obama says we're making progress here. We're going to draw down the troops. We're going to start holding peace talks with the Taliban's liens leadership in two thousand twelve the Taliban suspended those talks and accused America every nagging on promises to work toward prisoner swap that in two thousand fourteen President Listen Obama says we're going to withdraw most of our forces from Afghanistan. Here's a timetable for that and the administration worked to broker an agreement around new elections in Afghanistan and so we have to this this ebb and flow ebb and flow will two thousand seventeen comes along and president trump has been saying he's going to get us out of Afghanistan can but then Isis starts to take hold in Afghanistan and president trump decides that we're going to drop our most powerful non nuclear bomb tom on militants in the country and we do that but we start peace talks again and for about a year we've been in discussions shins with the Taliban not interestingly the government in Afghanistan so Afghanistan's president has not been part of these conversations conversations it has been our special envoy and a top Taliban official discussing withdrawing..
"afghanistan" Discussed on PRI's The World
"The concerns of the hazara community at these talks to this day. Why not really people are not hearing. We've had leaders who presented their blood to be realistic. I feel like they're just a token there. They're just put there to present. I don't really think think they have a say. I don't think they're even being heard. The government officials are saying that this peace process is inclusive but representation is not a question. Are we talking about the actual issues about uncomfortable discussions on conversation of what is going on in afghanistan. No we're not i feel alexa very rush decision u._s. Withdrawal to bring the thomas back into this peace talks without any realistic transition or a solid plan lena tori origin is a student at the university of richmond. She is a hazara and grew up in afghanistan. Thanks a lot lena of course had. I stayed the trump. Administration thinks the u._s. U._s. is spending too much on foreign aid and is proposing to cut four billion dollars in federal aid spending. The white house is getting some bipartisan push back on that house speaker speaker. Nancy pelosi actually says the cuts could be illegal. So how much does the u._s. Actually spend on foreign aid. Most of us. Don't really have a handle on that. Some think it's about thirty thirty percent of the federal budget others guess. It's more like fifty percent. Steve o'connell was the chief economist at u._s._a. I._d. During the obama administration he joins us from swarthmore worth more college in pennsylvania steve. Let's clear this up right now. What percent of the federal budget does the u._s. Spend on foreign aid carol we spend about one percent rent of the federal budget on foreign aid and that includes economic and development assistance part and a part that is labeled security spending but is is also under the same budget so military aid to other countries also comes under that no most military aid doesn't come under that but there are some military assistance military related david assistance that is classified as non military u._s. assistant and what's the purpose of foreign aid. I think it probably he has two or three purposes. So we spend on a broad range of you might call human development efforts the biggest dollar we spend his on international national aid for health maternal and child health h._i._v. aids tuberculosis malaria and then we spent on a variety of other forms of assistance assistance for development infrastructure support of foreign trade our food for peace program development of the power sector in africa. A whole variety bridie of programs critics say the money that goes to foreign aid would be better spent at home looking after say veterans of the homeless..
"afghanistan" Discussed on WBZ NewsRadio 1030
"Rivalry comes from all right let's take a look at the soviets in afghanistan and how that rivalry plays into that and by the way i heard that we let the pakistanis help us decide who we back in that a witch which groups tribes to support and that of course since we're fighting communists they thought well we'll choose the most wildly religious ones because they are least likely to be absorbed by defeated by communism and so they got the most radical a couple things keep in mind right wondering the cold war pakistan was us allies to some extent and also to remember but you know when the us was fighting the soviets the directly to the cold war there was this real feeling of like you know they're the godless communists in the us is the country of religion so countries that were pro religion even if it wasn't christian religion were seen often favored by the us that was actually a key selling point with the saudis the saudis looked and said well could be with the russians could be with you americans well the americans at least are more of a kind of religious country so that that made a difference there but going to the afghan civil war and or some of the other stuff that happened in the region in the seventies late seventies and early to mid eighty s that's where the rivalry with the saudis and iranians of kept picking up steam because you had this iran iraq war so basically it wasn't just the saudis who are threatened by the iran revolution it was saddam hussein in iraq who is really threatened by the revolution because guess what he was leading a country that was majority shia and it wasn't that all the iraqi shia were like oh my gosh we just wanna do whatever the iranian leadership says not not all but there was this concern of hey we're going to be inspired by this revolution next door is going to destabilize me so what happened is saddam hussein launched a preemptive strike against iran basically big workout they're not gonna need me anymore because they have this new leader yeah not gonna need me or going to want to get rid of me and going to have some backing to get rid of me so he struck while he could struck while he could the saudis backed him and that angered the iranians as well and so basically became this coalition of the iraqis backed by many other arab states against the iranians this is going on at the same time as the war in afghanistan where the saudis and others are also funneling money to support some of these you heidi groups and afghan rebel groups against the soviet union i did the saudis support iraq and hussein because who was he fighting against iran their enemy yeah so ron was seen as much more of a problem now to be clear this saddam hussein in the saudis didn't have a wonderful relationship either if you remember in nineteen ninetyone after saddam hussein took kuwait his troops were on the border of saudi and there was a real concern that he was gonna roll into saudi arabia but it was kind of again one of these like enemy of my enemy is my friend things iran was seen as a bigger threat so they backed saddam all right let's take a break and we have one more segment to figure it all out here wbz with peter cross they open that big miles out came talk jay jay talking with bradley jay wbz newsradio ten thirty hey friends it's.
"afghanistan" Discussed on The President's Inbox
"But you've laid out a pretty pessimistic view of afghanistan you've noted that the taliban control the countryside no add that and they dominated helm on which apparently is the heart of poppy in opium production in afghanistan so the tally bonn have ample sources of funds you've noted that afghanistan's government is incredibly corrupt i think transparency international rates sir afghanistan hundred and sixty nine of one hundred seventy six countries you've noted that the government is shaky and not terribly effective i can certainly understand why american withdrawal from afghanistan will be bad for afghans because as you note there have been successes serb improvements in the quality of their life since two thousand in one but exactly how it a us withdrawal endanger us national interests why they're couple of concerns one is the the the broad terrorism problem there remain a number of groups operating in afghanistan alqaeda the islamic state lashkaritaiba which was involved in the mumbai attacks that do you retain relationships with local taliban commanders and so the concern is that an increasing taliban control of territory as we've seen in the past several years has opened up the opportunity for these kinds of groups to establish training camps to bring and foreigners to conduct training if you we look at the last several years the us has gotten lucky a few cases with knowledgeable azazi in two thousand nine and fis olzhas odd in two thousand ten both of whom had been trained in pakistan and afghanistan.