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"Academy Moran Thank you so much having to be here and he's a software developer with access informatics, Betamax. It's been far too long. Welcome back hit has my good to see you again. I want to start with actual recognition. given the circumstances blast few weeks. We've seen IBM Microsoft an Amazon. All sort of slow down their roll out of facial recognition, particularly in relation to. Law Enforcement so we might go through the individually specifically with Amazon. What have they changed? Well Amazon did make some statements decrying police, brutality and systematic racism that came up in the protests about after the killing of George Floyd and they were criticized by people quite rightly because they supply the police with facial recognition software. It's called Rick. Spelled with a K. critics pointed out the hypocrisy of what they were doing. Supplying the police with face recognition, and then criticizing the police for the brutality, so they have responded to that and pulled back format IBM also have made statements about the justice in Policing Act, and they've also followed by agreeing not to sell their software. The blaze Microsoft, I think they have face recognition services in the cloud, but they so far have not sold them to the police so that they've said that they do that at the moment machine learning. Learning of course allows Massar violence at things like demonstrations, and potentially it means that people who go to a demonstration of course pays for process. Protest is a right in a democracy, but if everyone is able to be recognized by software, L. Mass it really, it's like having your votes. Being counted in democracy, it's just anti-democratic, so I think it's being used disproportionately. And of course there is research that shows that doc skins lead to more errors in Feis recognition, so you could say that the software biking in the privilege this sounds. Weird, but does it make any difference at these handful of big companies have stopped when they're awes-. Facial. Recognition stops around it. Do you think it has a? Meaningful Impact Sarah impact happens is the messaging and the public acceptance or rejection of what facial recognition technology means for us a society so are if there's big companies went supplies with that Tech Shaw some little upstart somewhere. We'll definitely go in do it. In dock rooms in DOT, com is. But I think what having a public compensation you know. The three of us now are talking about this, which talking about what it means and I I think that it's actually pot of those big companies social licensed to operate. To allow us to be able to talk about it as a community, sorry, a social license is the idea that when a big company operates in the community need to give them permission to do certain things, and I think that as a community at the moment whistled of a bit sketchy on what Algorithm, ICK, profiling and data recognition. Of facial technology actually means for us, and so that's why the debate is happening right now. Social Essences is such an interesting concept and. The interesting thing about it as a as a notion is that it's not really enshrined. It only really comes into effect when people get up and talk about it and criticize companies, and I guess the interesting thing about these particular companies paid, or is that some of the loudest voices decrying the use of facial recognition for these purposes? We're actually employees particularly at Amazon. Who I think had been quite vocal about the way they are in company was be using technology. Yes, so the have been some Amazon employees who who spoken out and There are rumors that they may be punished. As a result of that certainly Amazon cracks down. It seems on things like any ideas of unit unionizing or protests, and that sort of thing so yeah, they can use their own abilities. to control their own staff, and this is really disturbing I mean. I think if if the revelations from it would snowden tell us anything it's that if if government's or large organizations can use a technology for mass violence, they will do it, and even in the face of. Of Laws that try to prevent it, so it's very disturbing that these capabilities are out of the bag. The cats out of the bag if you like, and of course, if even if Amazon doesn't supply to the police is nothing to stop a third party buying the Amazon, service and then on selling it to the police, so it's really a you know. It's not something that we can simply control by. These vendors agreed to do something. I think it's GonNa be. It's going to be regulation. It's gotTa to be. Privacy. Regulation has got to be amped up. They've gotta be big penalties for abusing that trust given the prevalence of face masks. The current facial recognition technology to market does it work despite having the bottom half you face covered. Thousand particularly some of the technology. That's available in China. Wear masks are very. Mostert they get used to your face, wearing a mosque. It may feel like you're being a little bit more snaky and a little bit more private by popping that mosque on, but I. Tell you what the computers they just know that it's in a mosque you without a mosque same. Apples extra. Point Year. Apples updated the advice ID to handle mosques better in the latest version of IOS. And of course there's other technologies to in China. They have gate recognition, which recognizes people by the way they walk, so they really don't. They say they face at all. The only thing that we could do is have some sort of the their patents. You can use on a on your. Your face on like printed on a mask that are deliberately designed upset facial recognition so I guess you could wear a mask of a celebrity or someone else, but it's possible maybe to doing something like having glasses which have fake is on them in different spicing them may be some ways to counter this, but the recognition as I said using things like your gate. Your hides other things about you than by that will continue to get better. I mean the thing about all of this object, detection and face recognition is. Continuing to improve, and the right of improvement is improving, so it's a real battled to beat it at the end of the day. This technology easy to actually inevitable otherwise we can temper and control its roll out at the moment. Painter I can't say why to do it I. mean unless the laws become really strict. Government seems to be the ones that are using it. The Muslim in England apparently is completely covered in cameras in the streets..