20 Episode results for "Abusir"

The Beautiful Struggle to Forgive

Focus On the Family Daily Broadcast

26:43 min | 1 year ago

The Beautiful Struggle to Forgive

"Watch your favorite focus on the family broadcasts on Youtube. Subscribe to our Channel at focus on the family dot com slash youtube and get your daily dose of family. Strengthening encouragement subscribe and watched today at focus on the family dot com slash youtube. Just told him verbally told him that. Julie I forgive. Forgive you and I'm sorry for what you're going through now. Two things happened. There wasn't an immediate forgiveness. It's all done. I exuded the forgive process process but I realized at that moment that the forgiveness wasn't for my dad even though I had to tell him it was for me. That's it's Jason Romano Talking About Forgetting His Alcoholic Dad and you'll hear more of his story today on focus on the family. Your host is focused president and author Jim Daly Ellie and I'm John Fuller. Okay John. I have a challenge for the listeners. Today think of that person who has hurt you deeply. I mean to the point where maybe you even haven't forgiven them yet. might be a parent a sibling. A friend former spouse maybe a work colleague. Now ask yourself this. Have I truly extended forgiveness. Because that's on your side of the equation. Has Nothing really to do with them. The one who offended you forgiveness is complex and we get that. It doesn't excuse Abusir a harmful behavior of course but forgiving. Someone does mean that you'll let go of bitterness and leave revenge I would say judgment up to God Someone once said forgiveness is surrendering my right to hurt you for hurting me and I think that's a powerful way to sum it up John for us as Christians Showing mercy to those who have harmed us can be one of the most beautiful ways to display. God's amazing grace to hurting world. That's the testimony of us as believers levers and our guest. Today is a wonderful example of just that I would agree. Jim And as I said Jason Romano is our guest. He's an Emmy Award winning a sports journalist a former ESPN producer husband and dad and has a book that we are offering today. Live to forgive moving forward when windows. We love hurt us. We've got copies of that at the website. You can look for details in the episode notes. Jason Welcome to focus on the family guys. It's great to be here. Thanks so much for having. Yeah well I WANNA say good job and being a wonderful husband and father but then I wanna talk to you about being a sports journalist to most of the order. I appreciate the way I need to thank you so it's pretty fun to work at. ESPN yeah only cow. It was a dream job. It really was in many ways and I got to work there for almost seventeen years. I did production mostly behind the scenes but got to spend time with some of my heroes got to meet and become friends with some of my heroes that I grew up with the person who the forward to the book is. Is Darrell Strawberry. Who is my sports hero? He's been on the broadcast. He's a great guy and he was my hero jerseys and kept his stats and Hasselbald. I just baseball cards and suddenly I'm spending a day with him. ESPN so yeah. It was an amazing amazing opportunity. Let me ask you this off the wall questions. I mean when it comes to us as believers and and we are in a sports saturated environment. I love sports too. I played in high school playing baseball football basketball. How do we as believers? How do we peel back a little bit? So so it doesn't become an idol. You know it's so hard. I think this is so hard and you're talking to a guy who sports was my God for so many years. Even after I I became a Christian I became a Christian at twenty six twenty seven. I had to Kinda learn in a slow way. That sports really isn't that important to the grand scheme of life but you know. Sports is such connection Jason especially between fathers and sons and this was really your story and it was hard for you. You had a pretty positive view of your dad until one night. I think you're at a football game or a baseball game What happened? And I'm telling Ellen Yeah I so relate to your story because I think we had the same father but he hit it it's probably Fortunately common with a lot of people who are listening my dad. You Know My earliest memories of my dad. My parents got divorced when I was six. So I really didn't have a a ton of memories of mom and dad being in the same house. I haven't really no memories of that so it was always kind of like spend the weekend with dad and spend the week during the week with Mom but my Dad Love Sport Love Sports and loves sports and I mean he just I. That's all we still talk about to this day. And so my memories of him are pretty much all revolved around sports. Good and unfortunately bad and and I write about adverse chapter in the book. I take you to Nineteen eighty-four and it's my first time ever going to an NFL game. It's the eagles and the giants. My Dad is a good one die. I hard giants Fan. And we all get in the car me and my two brothers and my dad and my step mom patty and we'd take the drive from Albany New York down down to Philadelphia and when you go to a game. I remember arriving and seeing this stadium and walking in and just seeing this giant one hundred hundred yard football field and thinking. Oh my Gosh I'm here. This is amazing A ten year old kid. That's just the greatest thing ever right. Eleven year old kid and as quickly clea as excited as I was to the game of star and so just really be laid with joy at turned sour really quickly because my dad who had been and drinking at that time and he was still on his early to mid thirties He's getting his drink San and getting his beer anymore sitting in the seven hundred level with these Rabbit Eagles fans and he's a giants fan and probably halfway through the game. I just remember my dad suddenly getting into this verbal sparring and lots of bad words words being said and I thought this is not right so I'm confused here what's happening. Why is this happening and my dad was unfortunately really intoxicated and then we had to drive home and it was the scariest four or five hour drive? I've ever remember as he did because he was drunk. He was drunk. Jason One thing. I caught in the book that really Captured my attention because a little boy. You Stop Calling Your Dad Dad and started referring to him as Joe his first name but it's connected to this disappointment appointment explain. Why did that? In what protection was it providing little Jason. Yeah it was weird because there were times what I call on Dad and there were times when I call him Joe and I figured looking back. It's funny you remember things as you start to write a book and all these memories come back Aquino things. I hadn't thought about dryers and I was working with my co author Steve Copeland and we were talking and working through it. And I'm like I think I called him Joe More than I call him dad growing up and then we're starting to expand on it and I realized a lot of the Times that I was calling him. Joe Is the Times that he had been drunk or hung the things that would embarrass me. And I'm like that's not my dad. That's just that's Joe. It's not my dad. My Dad is the guy who sober and supportive and loving which I didn't get a lot of and so I found myself calling him Joe a lot more than now I just resonated with that again having similar father. I never did that but I could understand the relief of doing that. This is not the guy I love. It wasn't because especially being so young. You're confused it wasn't till I was in my teenage years till I really started to see this man. I had a problem. Something really was wrong and off when I was eleven ten and younger it was more confusing than it. Was this normal. Everybody does my mind's not able to process that on a mature level teenagers. But you know I even took that with me. As I'm writing the book there were moments where I call him. Dad Even into my thirties and early forties. He's and there were moments when I write about him as Joe even writing the book so it was still Kinda resonating connected with that now. Forty five years old. Where was God in this picture for you? I mean I mean obviously I don't think your dad maybe your stepmom or your mom had real commitments of faith but did you sense. Did you have a kind of a child like belief that there must began a god or i. I grew up in a Catholic household but to be quite honest with you. I'd never heard or understood. Salvation Jesus faith the Cross grace. None of that. I really had no religious anything in my life. GROWNUP evolve for you then that that knowledge that awareness Nisus not until I was twenty six years old. It was my brother. Chris My middle brother. Who is the first family to be saved into beginning true relationship with Jesus Christ but after a few years in watching him live out this faith truly live it out not just everyday hammer it home? I'm to me but watching how he loved his wife how he loved his newborn child how he loved his family. It was different and it was attractive and it wasn't until two thousand one mother's Day One. He introduced me to Christ. And that's how the journey began. Yeah you have a story and this is really again. It caught my attention. You have a story where your feelings feelings of hatred so maybe it started with embarrassment. I mean I can relate again being embarrassed with your dad at that literally game which bears wrong and slurring and talking to the trump and he I know is thinking he's helping you while you're at bat but you WanNa just crawl into a hole because you're so embarrassed absolutely but then you talk about about a day that you can remember that embarrassment turned into hatred for your father described that hatred is is such a you know I think of the word hate now Alan I and I I hate the word. Hate is just such a hard thing to think about. But it's real it's very real and as my dad got older. And there's a lot of moments where I discovered hatred for my father if you want to call it that You know him calling me in college in asking me for money to college when I was in college. Remember I don't have money. I'm in college. No College student has money. And he's calling me and saying hey I'm behind on this or that and I need to borrow are a few dollars and completely wasted. When he's calling and then he calls and sort of the first time I ever heard him say that he wanted to end his life? When I was in college and I was so angry and bitter at him and at twenty years old not empathetic and wanting to help him? I was just stopped at him so mad. I can't I hate my dad but then a moment comes when I'm in my twenty four twenty five year old stage when he calls up and this is how bad it got for my dad and he's he's drunk and he calls me and he tells me that his wife Patti had had died in a fire. And we'd love Patty. She was step mom and so close. We hadn't seen her in a few years and so we're all very sad and he's crying thing in two or three days later. Maybe a week later he calls and he tells me he made up the whole story. Oh my goodness he made up the whole story and I said why would you do that. And he said listen I I don't know I saw him so sorry. It was just shows you the fact that he was so in such a bad place at this point this is one thousand nine hundred ninety seven or eight that he had to lie to try and get people to feel sorry for him and then he had to come and tell us what happened that he was lying about this whole thing and that it was a moment when I come up the phone I said to my wife I said I can't believe this guy really hate him. How can he lie about the death of his second wife and there were more stories like this unfortunately but it was a a pure hatred for this guy that I had to work through myself and this is pre Christ for me so I had to figure out what that meant to innocence hate? My Dad. Jason You have really set the table and I think the listeners fully grasp that emotion inside of view that hatred that had developed for your dad and some are connecting with you saying yeah. That was my dad to whatever their situation that that overwhelming sensitive I just wish this person was not in my life because it's so destructive. Yeah but then you begin to turn the corner you start to is in in your book you say you started to feel which was the first step to forgiveness? Help the person that hasn't put those two together. What would it mean to help? Help begin to feel I think at that point You know I call it feeling. The pain is what we're trying to do. acknowledging that there's pain you you know a lot of us when we're angry at some when we try to just suppress it or Put a big wall in front of an pretend. It's not there and for me. That's what I did for many years. I mean I I talk about when I went away to college. I looked at that sort of a boundary for me to get away from my dad. You know get away from all the garbage and crap that I was you know living through having him be close to me and around me in my life. When I started to feel the pain I think it was probably around the time when I had gotten back from college and I just met my now wife dawn and I'm having somebody to talk to and I also went and got some counseling early on? I didn't go through counselling as I got older. My counseling. Yeah I guess was was with the Lord and with you know my pastor and people like that but I went to a counselor before I became a Christian. I remember just bawling my eyes out in thinking. Why am I crying right now over this? Yeah I shouldn't be this man. I can't stand this guy. Why am I crying? And it's because I knew that I still cared about him five. There's grief it was almost like a person who would cry when somebody passes it was grief and it allowed me to begin the process of feeling and understanding thing that okay I have pain. It's not it doesn't feel good but it's there let's acknowledge it and not try to like push it away and ignore it because so many of us do that and and for me. That was really the first step in moving forward when I realized it eventually I had to come to a place to forgive him. Yeah and you mentioned Chinda Meeting Dawn. What amazing stabiliser? A spouse can't be that other perspective and you know I'm a big believer in Christian in relationship. That your spouse complete shoe. Yeah so you're blind spots. They often will be able to see things differently from how you see them. Oh she didn't and and be able to bring some reality right so true and my my wife You know we got married. We weren't neither of us were Christians got married in the Catholic Church but again didn't really have a faith or care about religion or God or anything like that but we had each other and even our motto at our wedding was to become one and so we we didn't even realize is when we were getting married that we were sort of living out the marriage and of Biblical sense the idea of to becoming one person which is which is right from the Bible but having that I am coup came from a very strong mom and dad together still together to this day relationship married over fifty years and have been together and and not knowing what it was like to be around such broken in that realm and so she comes into my life and I write about this in the book that I was almost scared to bring her into my crazy family. You know darasing ago my goodness they'll look over here don. Yeah don't worry about that. I just you and me. Don't worry about my crazy. Yeah Dad and all the guards going on and I remember the moment when she first saw the effect that my dad had my life and it was right before we were getting married and inviting my dad to my wedding. He had missed all of those big moments in my life. When I graduated from High School graduated from College? He missed him oh he was. He was in Rehab or Hawas Awas binge mode or whatever and just not doing well and he missed all of those what. I call pillar moments in a young person's life so I had no father to attend these things and celebrate with me and so at my wedding. I really wanted to have him there. It's like listen. He's missed everything else. Let's bring my dad to our wedding. My wife was great. She's like whatever you think is best you know. Oh Your Dad I'm all for we invite my dad and then like five days before week before I get a call and he's wasted drunk and I found out that he had been on a binge for five or or six days of drinking and I had to Uninvite my dad to the wedding. Say One thing you was hoping he could be there and my wife again was so great on supporting but I knew that this is her day. Even though it's our day this is her day said to be the perfect day November of nineteen ninety nine and so we uninvited. My Dad ad in dawn was greatly great and supportive but there was a void there. Yeah everything is a perfect day is one of my favorite days in my life but there was a void. Yeah let's talk about the twelve steps of forgiveness that you really go after in the book and we only have time to cover a couple of them but let's hit a couple that that really are important and then folks you need to get a copy of the book and we'll post those if we can't we'll post the twelve at the website so people can see that but What what are some of those important things in that twelve steps of forgiveness which so many steps I break the book down into feeling the pain evaluating trauma Alma transforming the wound and living to forgive. And I think it's the transforming. The wound was not necessarily in part of the twelve steps. If you will that that but I think that's a big one because when we get a hold of coup got it and understanding forgiveness that we ask for every single day right we come to God and we say Lord forgive me for the things. I've said that the things I've done things I've thought and then we turnaround in exude forgiveness to others literally putting a hand to God and saying I got this. I don't need you. I think that was exactly his point with the woman caught caught in adultery. Right yes that was the xactly point hand to the face and so I think one of those steps if you want to call it a step is to understand what God's odds forgiveness is about he exudes it to us for free. All we gotTA DO is ask. It's undeserving do nothing to earn it and it's there every day over everything that we've ever done that he forgives us. And so it's like the old prayer. I learned when I was in a Catholic boy. You know the our father The Lord's prayer forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. It's literally Jesus words telling us. This is what we need to do every we day. It's not easy because that pain is real and we've been hurt but the step the process the the move of understanding God in His forgiveness is about and then trying to do that to others looking at people with an empathetic heart looking at people in different ways not through our lens but through Gods Lens I think that's one of the big steps to go forth with is just understanding forgiveness aspect of Christ is in this kind of ties into the whole thing. How how you did that with your father? Yeah which is the right place to land. How did that happen for you with your dad? It was a process as I like to. I tell people forgiveness continues to be a process even after you sort of start that process but my dad was in a really bad place about six years ago or so so his alcoholism and drinking continued but he was compounding that with depression and he had a lot of mental illness things. What's going on in his life at that time and when you put alcohol and mental illness or depression together it's a recipe for disaster ways right and so my dad is really in a bad state in the middle of two thousand thirteen and I get a call one day in June of two thousand thirteen from a nurse at a hospital in Albany? New York. ORC telling me that my dad had tried to end his life that he got to the point where he just didn't WanNa live anymore and he took a bunch of pills and and try to end it but I guess he got really scared because he immediately called nine one one after he took those pills and the ambulance came took him to the hospital in and saved him. But I get this call from this nurse and just to give you an idea. This is only six years ago. How bitter I still was about my dad when I got the call from the nurse that He was in the hospital. For this reason. There was no empathy on my part. Yeah I just said really. I'm so sorry to hear that And she's like well. If you WANNA come and visit you know you can't. I said no I said thank you very much. I think I'm okay. That's a wounded person. Oh my gosh I was so I was so I was wounded and I had no empathy for this. I had no sorrow. I had no to be honest. I had no love in that way. but over a week's period and I remember going to a small group. Pastor was leading at Pastor Joe and I said to him ironically the same name as my dad and I said I I said I'm not really knowing what to feel right now and honestly before this I had pleaded and asked and told a lot of people about my dad's situation and asking for for prayer but I couldn't. It's like I always thought God can forgive you to Joe but I can't right you know that's how I looked at it in over the process of about a week I started talking to my pastor and he just said you need to read what Jesus talks about with forgiveness and how it doesn't matter what that person's persons done it's about it's about you and you got a lot of wounds right now and literally a week later I get on the phone with my dad and I talked to him at the hospital and he's broken in empty and lifeless in just sounds horrible. Unlike any time I've ever talked to him in the past and he's telling me at that point he still doesn't. I WANNA live. I don't even know what I'm doing here and I remember just at that moment. My heart opened and I had empathy for the first time in my life for this man and I just told him verbally told him that. Julie I forgive you and I'm sorry for what you're going through now. Two things happen. There wasn't an immediate idiot forgiveness it's all done exuded the forgiveness process. It was process but I realized at that moment that the forgiveness wasn't for my dad even though I had to tell him it was for me I was the one that was stuck in bondage. I was the one that had these sort of change on me. Keeping me down in the clear evidence of that was when I got the call the he was in the hospital. I had no no feeling at all. Yeah there was. I wasn't I wasn't going to jump in the car and go visit my dad and help him love him. Be there for him like most people would like my wife calls me right now and says you know if somebody calls me and tells wasted in the hospital for whatever reason jumping into car right away but that's a terribly wounded person. That which I did with my dad as well. It's like totally get it. It's hard but I finally to the point where I told him that and then it began the process S. of forgiveness understanding Jesus and understanding that if I'm going to call myself a Christian here and walk around and put this on social media media and eventually like write books and things like that then I need to be able to forget. I can't hold grudges. Yeah I can't and this includes the most hurt wounds that I've ever experienced with my dad. I cannot hold a grudge there and so it was a process but at the point where I finally came to forgiving him. You know it was in six months a year before really started to see you know situation with my dad starts come back and focus now the irony of this whole story. Is that from that day that my dad went into the hospital. He hasn't had a drink since. That's that's incredible six and a half years now and his sober and it's it's clear miracle from God now my my dad does not have the sort of relationship that I would hope that he would have with with. Jesus I think he believes in God but he's very still struggles with that world a little bit. Pray for him we do. I tell people if you WANNA do anything for my dad. He sober now but he still needs to prayer prayer because he's not ready to fully some of his life to the Lord but he cannot deny that there is a miracle has taken place Jason. That's one of the sensitive things I want to mention here and highlight for the listener. Who may not have a deep or even a relationship with Jesus? This is exactly the profound nature of God and his character for you to be able to make that turn for you to feel empathy. That in my mind is the spirit of God. These are the things that come from him. Those are the characteristics of God in us as human human beings that have his divine nature so we can over complicate this it has to be a bolt of lightning notes. That moment when you feel. There's someone that you've hated. Hate it all those years. That's the spirit of God Jason. It's been so good. I hope you the listener have a better understanding of that if you've got that bitterness eating being away you get a copy of Jason's book in if you can afford to help focus on the family with the gift of any amount and we'll send it our way of saying. Thank if you cannot afford it in your in a tough spot call us anyway. We'll send it to you trusting that others will take care of that expense. It's so important it from our perspective that you have a tool in your hand to help you get through this area of bitterness. It's key to growing in your relationship with Christ Christ so do it. Don't hold back. Don't be embarrassed we've been at it for forty over forty years we've heard I think we've heard it all you never want to say that but You know what we'll be able to talk with you call our counselors and let us share the love of God with you and our number's eight hundred. The letter A. and the word family or look in the episode notes for further details. Well as we closed today let me just think of listener commented on Apple. PODCASTS has the the user name and interesting one quick fan nine nine nine This person said thank you for this awesome resource. There have been many times while I listen that I think what about and then just as I think that one of the hosts asked that very question that was on my mind. I tell everyone I can about this. podcast thank you are we we so appreciate that kind of feedback and we encourage you to leave a note. share your opinions about what we're doing here through these podcasts. On behalf of gym daily really in the entire team. Thanks for listening today. Make sure you subscribe in join us next time as we once again help you. And your family thrive incorrect.

Jason Pastor Joe Jesus Joe More Jason Romano High School Julie John Fuller patty Youtube giants football Emmy Award Jim And ESPN Abusir baseball Chris My Jason Welcome
NPR News: 02-05-2019 3AM ET

NPR News Now

04:52 min | 2 years ago

NPR News: 02-05-2019 3AM ET

"NPR podcasts are now available on every major platform checkout all our shows at NPR dot org slash podcasts. That's NPR dot org slash podcasts. Live from NPR news in Washington, I'm Shay Stevens. President Trump's inaugural committee says it is reviewing Justice department subpoena for information on its donors and expenses. According to the Wall Street Journal and New York Times. Federal prosecutors are looking into whether the committee illegally accepted foreign contributions and whether some donors expected political favors Federal Reserve Board chairman Jerome Powell had dinner with President Trump last night, but made no promises on interest rates. Steve Beck ner has more. Trump has long urged the fed to stop raising rates after the fourth rate hike of the year. So Wall Street in December pal pledge patients in raising them further a commitment renewed last week when the fed left rates, unchanged Powell insisted the feds non action had nothing to do with White House pressure invited to dine with Trump pal discuss prospects for growth jobs and inflation. But the fed says he did not discuss his. Expectations were monetary policy. Pal stress rate moves quote will depend entirely on incoming economic information. And what that means for the outlook and develop fed decisions will be based solely on careful objective and non-political analysis for NPR news. I'm Steve Beck ner. Voter registration groups in Texas or challenging plan to purge thousands of residents from the states voter rolls. As actually Lopez with member station. K U T reports the lawsuit alleges the state is targeting people born outside of the United States the plaintiffs in. This lawsuit include the N W C P league of women voters and a group mobilizing young Latino voters civil rights at journey say the state's effort targets and threatens the voting rights of naturalized citizens and people of color Tommy Abusir Clancy with the ACLU of Texas says he thinks the voter purge is politically motivated this voter purges is coming right on the heels of the twenty eighteen midterm elections. Where? There. You saw lat next and then other minority voters voting in unseen before proportions in Texas suit was filed in federal court in Galveston so far the third lawsuit. In federal court challenging Texas voter purge for NPR news. I'm actually Lopez and Austin the National Transportation Safety board is trying to Termine why a small plane crash into a Los Angeles area. Home Sunday, killing the pilot and four people on the ground to others were hospitalized with moderate burns NTSB investigator Meyer. Smith says the probe will focus on why the aircraft broke apart minutes after taking off from a local airport, and you over Linda, structurally structural integrity of all the airplane where he broke off. Why broke off? But at this point right now, I cannot speculate on what happened Smith says that gathering all pieces of the plane will be a challenge because of the debris is spread over several blocks. You're listening to NPR news. General Motors is laying off about forty three hundred office workers this week some twenty two hundred white collar, GM employees have been taking buyouts another fifteen hundred contract workers have been let go since November. That's when the automaker announced plans to cut eight thousand positions GM says it hopes to raise profit margins and invest more in autonomous and electric vehicles. A federal bankruptcy judge has approved a debt restructuring plan for Puerto Rico. The plan includes more than seventeen billion dollars in government. Bonds backed by a sales and use tax senior bondholders will receive ninety three percent of the value of the original bonds, well, junior bone holders will recover. Fifty four percent security is tied in the Venezuelan capital. Where opposition leader one white. Oh is calling for more demonstrations today the country self-declared? Interim president is urging supporters to turn out in large numbers as part of an ongoing campaign to force nNcholas Maduro to call new elections or resign the BBC's Jane. Reynolds reports. One quote, we've seen suggests that he wants to make it the largest demonstration in the country's history. Pops even in the continent's history. Of course, that might simply be a way of selling the demonstration. But it gives you an idea of the kind of ambition that the opposition has at the moment, and the kind of momentum that they feel they have for the first time in many years. Now, they now have a man that they can call president self declared president. But of course, word of caution. One Guidote does not control the country. He doesn't control ministries. He doesn't control the armed forces of the security forces ABC's, James Reynolds, I'm Shay Stevens. NPR news in Washington.

NPR President Trump NPR fed Texas Jerome Powell Steve Beck Shay Stevens Interim president Washington Lopez Wall Street Journal Smith Tommy Abusir Clancy National Transportation Safety United States General Motors
Saving Your Marriage From Divorce (Part 1 of 2)

Focus On the Family Daily Broadcast

27:34 min | 2 years ago

Saving Your Marriage From Divorce (Part 1 of 2)

"Focus on the family has helped for troubled marriages, we came here with broken hearts and crushed spirits, but we're leaving with great hope and tools to mend our marriage. It's with hope restored a marriage intensive experience. Our premier Christian counseling program provides in-depth quality care that will make a difference in your life and your marriage. Even if your marriage is on the brink of divorce. We can help scholarships are available. Find out more at hope restored dot com. So you're in a situation like that with your marriage. It seems impossible. There's just no way out. Look what's happening. It's been years like this. And Satan is pushing you're done God may not be done. And it's not going to be done with that marriage. There's always a chance with God's help. So God is asking you to step forward and faith follow a series of steps. And let's see what he can do. And we know he can do anything with God's help. There is hope for your marriage in. Dr David Clark is our guest on this. Best of two thousand eighteen focus on the family. He'll be offering some of that encouragement to you. And we trust you'll stay tuned. Your host is focused president and author Jim Daly, and I'm John Fuller, John in every marriage that I'm aware of and I try to take little surveys that when I'm traveling talking to people you're gonna hit times where there's conflict there's misunderstandings, and maybe even hurt feelings that's kind of normal in a healthy marriage. Both spouses come together to work on their issues as. As they arise through good communication, healthy conflict. Which is why we talk about strengthening your marriage so often here at focus on the family. But when we don't deal with issues as they arise a marriage can become stale unhappy, and you and your spouse may get to the point where staying married doesn't feel worth it anymore. And I'm telling you that's not a good place to be today. We're gonna come alongside struggling couples in give you the hope that the power of God. And yes, some work on your part will be required for your marriage to be better and that can make it a much happier. Marriage. Once again here focus on the family. Our heart is to strengthen and save marriages one way, we do that is through our hope restored program specifically designed for couples that are on the brink of separation or maybe even signed the divorce papers already, and if you're hurting in that spot, let us help you four out of five couple. That's what I said four out of five couples who go through the program are still together two years later and doing better. So I think it's worth your investment to check that out. Maybe not for yourself, but think of the witness and testimony has a Christian that you have in Christ. It's important that you'd be mindful of that as well. Yeah. And you can find out more about hope restored when you call eight hundred two three two six four five nine, and I mentioned Dr David Clark is our guest. He's written a number of books and has been here before several times always a very strong response from you our listeners, which is why we're bringing this program back today in his book is I don't want a divorce a ninety day guide to saving your marriage. David welcome back to focus. Well, my pleasure to be here. We love having you here, you just so energetic. Number one, your fun to be with. I can't believe you can contain yourself in a counseling session. You must be a very interesting counselor. I. Dude when couple is in front of you or are you just in their face? I'm never subdued. I can see tell them what to do. And how to do it that coming to me? I don't say, well, how do you? I have never ever said an accounting station. How do you feel about that? You get right to the point and come on. Yeah. We're going to get right to it. I love it. And let me ask you you believe there's some good news about bad marriages. How three words join the club ninety nine point nine percent of marriages get into the danger category at one point or another five to seven years. Huge problem area the seven year, which is real. And then you if you clear that then it's going to be the eighteen to twenty year, Mark, another huge upswing marriage breaks down annoying habits, male female, differences communication, problems conflict issues. Plus, no one ever taught you how to be intimate in a great Christian home if mom and dad did that they did it behind closed doors. I don't know how to do it. So you married is going to break down. That's the bad news. In fact, in this great book, I don't want a divorce a ninety day guy. To saving your marriage. You mentioned kind of three basic marriage types. Let's start there. Good. I were unhappy but willing to work on it or marriage is struggling we admit it. We're going to be honest here to adults, and we wanna get better maybe and there's different categories in that main category. But that's not a bad place to be. That's a good place. They're recognizing. Okay. We're struggling we're roommates ruts do better the couples who don't have the honest conversation where I'm I'm unhappy. You're unhappy wherein trouble. Those the ones that I'm getting divorced. If you'll voice it and you'll you'll seek a plan like my plan or your pastor, or or focuses resources, and the intensive are awesome. They're excellent. I sent couples to the you can make it, but you've got to have the conversation and you have to start doing something before it's too late. Let me ask you this the want to we're gonna come back and get the other two real quick. But what about the want to that? You're describing how does it couple recognize? Okay. We still have I want to do it better in. Well. Oh, good question. I mean, that's it. It's usually going to be a conversation brought up by one of the spouses, probably going to be the woman because they're sensitive, and they know what they're missing your basic guy. Doesn't know what he's missing if there's food on the table, if we're okay in the bedroom. If my job is okay, we we're good. Hey, aren't we good don't not realizing the wife is dying inside? So she's going to bring it up. My theory is a good man going to get it. You have to bring it up. You've got to be very direct he'll realize. Uh-huh. And then we go through a series of steps. And that if he loves his wife and chances are he does. Okay. What do I have to do initially? He doesn't know what he's missing he'll do it for her. And that's fine way to start eventually a few weeks into the program who realize oh, I've been missing I'm not deep. I'm not close to my wife. So that's what the ones who comes initially from. I love you. You're saying we're in. We're in trouble. I'm going to respond to that. What's the male thing about that? Why are we blind to that? What is it ego erasing? Hey, even though we've got our issues. It's okay. Partly that. We're in. To control, and I don't want to feel like I'm out of control in my marriage. But underneath the real reason is, uh-huh. If this is really a problem much is going to be required of me. I'm going to have to learn how to be intimate. I'm going to have to really get deeper with my wife. I don't wanna do that. I don't know how to do it. I'm not good at it. And so if I can somehow convince her that were okay, then we don't have to do this health. The dumbest argument in the history of the world. She's already saying I'm unhappy. We need to have a response to that, sir. Yeah. All right. Let's go to the other two. You mentioned the were unhappy stage but willing to work on it. What's number two? Number two is my spouse won't change many spouses are in this situation. Probably the woman could be the man polit- say, it's the woman, and you have a husband who is not going to divorce you, but he is pretty much done with you. He is not going to be intimate with you. And he won't do anything to change. He won't read my book. I don't want a divorce. He will not go to a seminar. He will not go to with intensive. He won't talk to your pastor. He's not gonna make any changes and this can happen over period of years. There's and the whites dying inside what am I supposed to do? If I have a husband or spouse like that. What does the church offer me? Well, Dave Clark Louis book and focus is we're offering you a plan a clear plan that will get his attention. Hopefully, motivate him get him to repent from his sin because that husbands in serious sin. If you're saying our marriage is in trouble that can do anything to work on it. I'm breaking one God's most important laws. And so that's a center, and we're going to confront that set and we'll come back around on each of these. We're gonna explore them more. But we wanted to get the basics right up front and the third one. Then is what my spouse is send big time. And I don't know that he deserves being married to many longer, right? This is the catastrophic crisis when the roof just caves in I found out my husband is looking at pornography, and it's been a pattern. I found out. He's got an emotional affair going with someone at work or Suzie that he knew back in junior, high whatever or or he's got a full blown affair or there's been alcohol problem a drug problem. Fi. Financial irresponsibility. He's gambling. He's wasted our money. He's done something that or she's done something. Just outrageous. It's extremely sinful. And it's a massive crisis. How to heal how to enter the system at that point get the Senator repent and get into recovery. And then he'll from what has happened. That's the challenge of that. Right. I wish and I'm going to say, you know, every time you're voicing the he did this. You're really saying he she the spouse. But it's fatiguing always have to say, he she. So, you know, unless it's specific to male behavior. You're you're really trying to refer to both genders that could be in trouble. Right. Exactly. And women. Are I hate to say this women are catching up in these categories? So that's it. So you've got this ninety day plan. What can a couple expect at of the book and the resources to help? I mean, really is it that simple ninety days. It sounds like if I could be that bold. You're going to help me lose a little weight. It's ninety days because I say it is. One hundred ten could take eight hundred eighty who knows? But it's after thirty years doing this. I I have developed a plan but doing this now for twenty years this book comes out at twenty years of of I know this works. It's exactly what I do therapy. So it's tested. Couples thousands of riot girls. I don't work in theory. I don't write a book. I don't present a seminar until I know it works. It works for San unite. And we went through many these steps the blonde deny the blonde by writing a book helped me out here. We just clarified the blonde isn't affectionate term, and she's good with it Oshii issue. Love you call the well, let's spend the rest of the time right now talking about marriages where both spouses or unhappy. But they're willing to work on it. We'll go a little deeper with each of these. How do you think these couples typically get where they're at what creates the roommate mentality? I think it's the nature of the beast is just what marriage is like a happen to the blonde sandy ni-, and we didn't even expect it to. But it did. So this is pretty normal. It's very normal your infatuated your love, you get married then you start. Into getting to find out just how hard it is massive adjustments annoying habits. I can't believe she's like that Santa found out that I'm a slob. She didn't know that because we weren't living together. Unbelievable world-class slob you thought she knew that about Dave. My roommate in college didn't care because he was a slob too. I never got the memo here. So that was a big issue. And then things are already starting to breakdown. And we don't know how to be intimate when you lose the rush the adrenaline the power of the infatuation. Oh, you don't have anything left. Now, we have to learn how to develop intimacy. No one's ever taught us don't have a clue you're given often in the church and well-meaning people, and they're wonderful church is wonderful. But you're you're given the the goal, but you're not giving the how to say that's a good point, man. So that's why focuses here about that. And you do a wonderful job. No one else. Does it like focus, and then you're already kind of on the edges, and then you do the one thing. That's guaranteed to kill your passion. Stone cold dead. You have a CHAI. You know, what what will you think what he had to your mind? Then it's all about the baby I'm gonna win own. Our Emily KMart. I it was just like catastrophic. We are allies were just came to a stop. We got to keep her alive. And then it was we've got to stay alive. She's killing us. She was yelling at times. He's very feisty. She's a wonderful person. But oh, so that that or know where she gets that. I just gotta say. Funny. You also give some advice in the book about this kind of marriage. You suggest we take these marriages out back and shoot them. What do you get into? What is that all of them? So most of my couples and they're shocked out of their heads. We're sitting there at the end of the first session. I gotta tell you this marriage is awful. It's dead. Take it out back and shoot it. We're done. And they look at me. Like, why are we here? I thought he was a Christian that Bob. I say look your first marriage is over we're not going back to that one. We're going to read you we're going to heal from what's happened with God's principles. We're going to put into place the brand new marriage, which is going to take you the rest of the way. So that's a little juxtaposition. I use a really seems to work now. It's true, okay? To successfully build a stronger marriage. You believe couples must strengthen their relationship with God. I everybody that feels that ways. Now saying, yes, we're getting to the spiritual component. That's so true. That's foundational. We would say what does that look like though in practical terms? What does it look like to strengthen your relationship? With god. When you're in this kind of marriage. Here's the nuts and bolts, I'm assuming and it's a good assumption. Because I always ask couples when I see them, do, you know, Jesus Christ. Personally, if not we're going to do that like right now because without God's help you're not going to make it. But then the second one is how you personally doing in your relationship with God through Jesus church. Attendance may be a little lax. I'm not having a quiet time. You're not close to God surf. You're not close to God. Or ma'am you? We can't do the steps in my book. We're gonna have to we start with that. Let's get your faith back. Where it belongs. When a Satan's most effective tools is using marital unhappiness to draw you away from God. He's a master at it. I don't want to go to church we're unhappy, you know, and we're just drifting apart. And so we don't wanna pray together everything falls apart. But it's you and God, that's the main thing. So we start to getting that back and most of the couples on my office hang their head. They know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't get back. They say, you're right. And the man will say, I'm the leader. I should make sure we go to church even let me ask you David at. That's an interesting observation. With the couples that come to you. How many come to you that are struggling that? Do have a, you know, good healthy relationship with God. They're reading the word regularly. They're praying regularly. Maybe hopefully praying together regularly. How many those couples come in for help three percent three percents? Obviously. Thank you. That's that's why it's in the book. It's major league. I am not close to God it's own with God's power that I can love this opposite sex person. Once I lose that connection. I literally cannot do it. You know that fits with national survey work that it somewhere around one to three percent that the whole the whole country of Christians would say that if we're engaged with each other. We're healthy spiritually very few people have marital difficulty at the level that it's going to tear it apart. Let me ask you as you believe the breakdown of most marriages is a breakdown in communication. We see that here at focus. It sounds so simple. I was talking to Jean the other night. And we're talking about how many generations do we have to go through. You know, when will we say oh. It's communication because we've been talking about it for like two thousand years, you know, that we need to communicate better we need to love and respect each other. Why is this so hard to do if it's so obvious? You know, nobody knows how when you're dating and even early in marriage. You think you know, how you think you're having deep conversations? In fact, you are not because you don't know how every parent listening should actually sit their kids down. And there should be a crash course over the course of years actually, teaching them how to communicate with the opposite sex. Nobody does it because you don't think to do it. Well, that'll just work out. We worked it out. They'll work it out. Now, we need to have as part of primarily education this country, and the church can be involved in that very clear, I'm gonna teach you how to communicate. That's I do with my premarital couples. Wow. That it is. Yeah. Huge. They think they already know they don't know. So that Arab communication the book the ninety day program addresses at head on another one. And this. I think is. If not equal to maybe greater than because it starts. Everything outs selfishness. I mean, I think doctor Clark the main reason God set it up this way, why opposites attract I mean, he's probably smiling a bit because he's moving us toward his character selflessness in marriage speak to that issue of how selfishness can destroy marriage noble. It works every time. It's tried and tried every time, and I think of my marriage specifically, I was I have a wonderful mother. Kathleen clark's. I'm sure she's listening to this. I was give her a hard time. It's always the mom's fault. Anyway, she wait a minute. I'm sticking up. She was so loving. And so gracious, and I I was the baby it's great to be the baby. And so I was spoiled I come into marriage. Everything had been taken care of now. With a great kid. Don't get me wrong. I was a kid, and I really was didn't give them too much really messy well, except that's right. Amum didn't seem to care just shut the door. I come into to marriage with sandy. Oh my goodness. The expectations. She first born by chance. No, she second boy, which is more of a firstborn born. She's a doer. She's a mover. She's a shaker. She tells you what to do. And I do it. She's a rock, but I came in totally I'm Barbara. I thought that if senators met all of my needs will of course, I'd be happy. And then if I'm happy she'd be happy a lot of guys feel that way was the dumbest thing in the world. So I had to really revamp loving her. We had some great conversation talk about communication. She sat me down early marriage and said, look, I'm doing everything here. Dave where della seminary, I'm doing the laundry, I'm working fulltime and I'm typing year your papers late at night. I would hand them to her and say, would you type this and I'd go to bed. Oh my goodness. Incredibly south snares daggers are flowing right off your right now. Goodness. What kind of a husband was that arable semi said, you out of your mind. And so I started doing the laundry star doing the dishes when she cooked got a part time job because the burden was too much on her, and I did my own papers. But more than that ahead. Learn how to love this beautiful blonde. I had no idea. And so I had to learn how to how to talk with her how to make time with their how to how to really meet her needs and have conversations that would be. Deep for her. Our first year was rough rough rough rough. Yes, okay. For the men that are listening. Let me ask this question. What does it deep? Good conversation. Sound like I mean, we're down to one on one buddy. You literally, I you let you wipe find that guy might think this was a great conversation about me fix the car engine, or whatever it might be the are doing exactly, you know. But I don't think so. So you let her use. If you've got the guts you sit down with your wife today. And you say, Honey, what is deep conversation. She'll laugh ahead of you kidding. You've never ask that probably faint. But that she knows exactly what she wants here. And you let her know in Chile, you know, what what she needs. Well, we will talk about a topic. And you would say this, and I would say that. And you'd asked me certain questions, she knows is that a good question to start with it is what is a deep conversation with me. What would that look like Honey she knows the answer, and your particular woman will be able to tell you and choreograph it and. You'll soak him in a work on that. So it's like a training. Exercise women have a PHD in communicates. So we shouldn't be shocked by the speed in that reply when you asked that question houses, don't be upset. It was so quick because she's been wanting to answer that question for a few years pass, and that's male leadership. You need to be asking her. What are your needs? And that's one of her key needs. Let's start working on the she will be beyond thrilled. And then together, she'll teach you how to communicate. She absolutely will. When again, you mentioned it someone's going to be working terrier part the enemy, and he's so successful. David. You mentioned writing a letter of responsibility to your spouse that sounds again a little intimidating as I read it. What does it mean? I'm sitting with a couple this is second session leave establish some of the foundational things as we've discussed. And now, we're going to talk about the homework assignment is going to be and they bring it in the letter of responsibility. It sounds bad. Are it does? But you know, what? I don't care. I know that you know that. And I explained it look you because they come in for a session. It's all about the other person. She met map at bat, you wouldn't believe. And then she goes back. Oh, yeah. We'll how about you. Bozo. Pep pep. I say this is not helpful you probably right in what your partner is doing wrong. But it doesn't help you can't do anything about that. So stop the rocks and the bottles, I'm gonna have you look in the mirror, very solidly pray over this. And write actually write out the mistakes you've made in the marriage for next time. You can hear a pin drop in the counseling session. But you know, what that's how we start. That's how Dr Clark starts. That's how the bible starts. It starts with looking in the mirror. The log in your eye. Take a look be very honest about mistakes regrets things you have to work on. That's a and then b as what you're gonna do what you wanted to change those things couples that come in and a lot of them try this because a resistance they'll come in. And they haven't done the assignment, I'm not gonna see them again. This is a progressive series of steps on not mean about it. Well, sometimes the depending on if they've had by or not in the morning anyway. So I will say no this is. That we're going to cut this session short because you don't have the homework. I have no other agenda here, and you can go now. And you're gonna pay me that nips it in the bud. That's good. I know another one that you talk about is focusing on your spouse's positive attributes that could be so hard, and, you know, especially if you if you have a critical nature, which I think all human beings, do it's whether or not you let it out of the cage and because it's so flesh -ly to be critical. And you know, that's again, one of the things Jesus talked about is bite that tongue. Don't go there. And how would we think about being less critical or not critical and more positive about our spouse? How do we do that? We'll to great question, Jim when a marriage breaks down as you know, it's all negative when they're sitting in front of me. They're all netted, the positivity is all gone. That's how they started in their relationship with positively. So we bring that back, and it has to be forced I say, you're not going to like hearing this. You're not gonna wanna do it. When. Not worried about your feelings. You just have to do it faith in God faith in this process. And hopefully love for your spouse. It's going to be developing comp we start with compliments I'll say this next week. I want you to come up with a list of fourteen very impressive and real compliments for your spouse and physical attractiveness character, what they do for you, a spiritual qualities has to be a real list, and then you're going to drop an in seven days to complement today. One in the morning one in the evening that beginning it's the most awkward thing in the world. They don't want to do it. I can't think of anything positive don't come back to my office until you have thought of positives because they're they're they're just totally buried right by your dysfunction and Satan's pushing them out with a whack so when they start after that week things are starting to change Tim too. Because they've said something that is true. And it starts to connect them. So we start with that. Yeah. And it works now. And it it's so true. And it's so important it goes back to communication like you're saying let's end today. Talking about. Conflict, which is you know, again, another all of these are so critical. I keep saying this is important. This is important, but the lack of communication and dealing with conflict in a healthy way. Is what got a lot of couples to the point there at now. Right. The point that they need help what does healthy conflict, look like and David, you know, this folks are gonna Email us or contact us and say if you're Christian you shouldn't have any conflict address at to those people have big problems. There's nothing worse in my opinion. I'll tell couples this then a couple that has no conflict. Why? Oh, my it. Sounds right though. It sounds like a good thing and very Christ. Like that's not true Christ had conflict with a lot of people and they killed him. That was that was pretty conflictual. And he always told the truth with got him and all kinds of trouble. Even though it was done with love if you're a voiding, you're avoiding what is actually going on. So you're bearing things abso. Right. And that's keeping you far apart. And so those kind of couples have I'm avoiding all these issues that are really bothering me. I'm not talking about a lot of things I should be talking about. And so you pull away apart. You're going to have conflict you actually want to have complex built into God's system. And if you handle it the right way, there's all kinds of passion and conflict working at through finding out things about your partner. You never knew closeness results the making up his sweet the whole thing works. That's good. David man, we have flown through this. But we're not done we've covered topic one. You know when the couple is unhappy, but willing to work toward it. We still got to come back to the one spouse not being willing and kind of dig into that. And then finally when the the big sends occur, whatever that might be infidelity or Abusir where there's something happening that needs more serious contemplation, maybe separation those kinds of things. Let's come back next time and cover that. Can you stick with us? I'm not going anywhere. Okay. Good. Let's do it. And let me speak to you, the listener. Maybe you've been listening all along in your spouse aren't really fighting anymore because you're no longer even talking really what we were just talking about that good behavior. But there's no intimacy if your communication is non existent or hanging by thread, and you need someone to talk to about your marriage. We're here for you. We have carrying Christian counselors who can start that process. And if you're in real difficult straits, if if you're thinking, I no longer want to be married to my spouse, we have hope restored, which is a great program that you should at least inquire about it's worth your marriage. I think to make a phone call, and we're here for you in either situation, and I hope you'll take us up on that we want to. See your marriage thrive in Christ. That's our goal. Yeah. Make that phone call today and talk to a counselor get information about hope restored and ask about resources. Our number is eight hundred the letter a in the word family. You know, having a great guest. John like, Dr David Clark on it. Sparks the emotion. It opens the heart up people are going to respond today. They're gonna be hurting. They're gonna say what your guest was talking about really got hold of me. I'm there, and we don't want you to just follow away from the conversation. We want to continue this discussion. And we want to help strengthen your marriage. Like, I said, you know, every month our counseling team fields over four thousand calls every month. I'm proud of that. And I'm so grateful to the folks who help underwrite that you know, you are directly partnering with us in that way. And one of the ways that you can help us. Us meet these needs is to give a gift of any amount. And we will in turn say thank you by sending you a copy of Dr David Clark's book. I don't want a divorce a ninety day guide to saving your marriage. That's our way of saying. Thank you. And maybe you're in a good place use it for a neighbor, a friend, a relative, but let's do ministry together. Yeah. And you can make a donation online. Get your copy of Dr David Clark's book and find other helpful focus on the family resources. Just look for the links in the episodes and on behalf of gym daily and the entire team. Thanks for listening. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

Dr David Clark David man Dave Clark Louis John Fuller Jim Daly partner Kathleen clark president Chile San unite Mark Jesus church Suzie Jesus Senator sandy ni Emily KMart Abusir Santa Dr Clark
Episode 106 - March 15, 2020 AFP: American Family Physician

AFP: American Family Physician Podcast

29:06 min | 1 year ago

Episode 106 - March 15, 2020 AFP: American Family Physician

"Hey this is Steve. It's March Seventeenth. Twenty twenty when I record this before we start this episode. I wanted to provide a brief comment about the Cova nineteen public health crisis affecting our world right now as you know lots of things are cancelled the NCWA tournament the Masters Golf Tournament. Movie releases and Broadway shows graduations weddings. But you know what's not cancelled family medicine now more than ever. We see the importance of family medicine. You all are on the frontlines. Caring for the health and wellbeing are patients and communities. Thank you I'd like to share some thoughts. I saw on twitter from Rene crisslow. Md A full spectrum family physician on faculty at the University of Minnesota. Here's Dr crisslow with advice to her graduates entitled Breathe. So this one is for you folks. You know who? You are the grads. I've taught family medicine physicians and Medical Students for more than twenty years. I'm talking to you. We are in the clinics hospitals emergency rooms and the ICU's remember what I used to tell you. People don't need us when it's easy. They need us. When it's hard will. It looks like it's going to get harder for awhile in when it does. I want you to remember your training. I don't expect you to be perfect. I don't expect to know everything. I expect you to do what I do. And what we've taught you to do. We step up every time we do our best we then evaluate and injustice indicated by the results. We expect you to remember as you were trained. These are not cases. These are not advocates. These are people and they are your patients. They are someone's daughter. Someone's mother someone's father someone's son and we have the honor to care for them. It is a sacred duty. There will be a time many years from now when they will tell the stories of the time of Code Nineteen. That's not why we're here. No one may ever hear what you've done. Just do your best. Now take care of each other. Now take care of yourself now. Tomorrow is a hope for a better day made real by every choice that we make in the present you will need to have faith in yourself and each other and when you can't believe in yourself remember that I believe in you breathe much love Krige. Thank you Dr Crisslow for sharing this with us at this crucial time in our personal and professional lives of course. This crisis is ongoing and rapidly. Changing family. Medicine is here and we will always be here and on March Twentieth Twenty Twenty match day we welcome more than four thousand new family doctors to our ranks. I'm sorry to all of you that your match day celebrations were likely canceled. Consider this a small celebration welcome. We are so glad you're joining us. Finally I'd like to refer people to to resources for family doctors. That might be helpful as we tackle. Cova nineteen risk in our communities. Check out the link on the homepage at www dot af p dot org and check out to recent blog posts from two of our American family. Physician Editors Doctors Middleton and Lynn the first ones entitled Corona Virus Disease Twenty Nineteen updates and resources and the second is optimizing mental health during the covert Nineteen Pandemic. You can find both of these at. Afp Journal DOT BLOGS DOT DOT COM. Okay folks that's it. Take care of yourselves and each other. Here's the episode. The AFC PODCAST is supported by the American Academy of Family Physicians and by UNC network physician recruitment currently recruiting for UNC healthcare and thirteen other UNC affiliated hospitals throughout the State of North Carolina for open opportunities more information please in an email to physician recruitment at UNC health dot USC DOT EDU man. Hey and welcome to the American family physician PODCASTS FOR THE MARCH. Fifteen twenty twenty issue. I'm Jake I'm Michelle I'm Melissa. And we are residents faculty mostly residents of the University of Arizona. College of Medicine Phoenix Family Medicine Residency. Today on the podcast. We're GONNA be talking about managing hypertension using combination therapy. We'll have a steps look at a practice guideline on GPS. We'll talk about medication. Used TO REDUCE RISK OF BREAST. Cancer Will Review Genital Ulcers. And we'll wrap things up with an. Afp clinical answers rapid fire round the opinions expressed in the podcast our own and do not represent the opinions of the American Academy of Family Physicians. The editor of American family physician or banner health do not use this podcast for medical advice instead sear doctor for medical care. I on the docket managing hypertension using combination therapy and this comes to us from doctors. Dustin Smith Robert Linen and Peter Carl's guard. Thanks Michelle and Jake for volunteering contestants in combination anti hypertensive Trivia Ready. Let's start with a softball. Can someone remind our listeners of the J. Eight criterias hypertension treatment thresholds and the general first line medications to us? Oh I definitely know this one. Treat to a blood pressure. Goal of less than one forty over ninety for adults aged eighteen to fifty nine and patients at any age with diabetes or chronic kidney disease entering otherwise healthy adults over the age of sixty two a goal of less than one fifty over ninety for general all comers first line medications include ace inhibitors or arbs. Thi- as I diabetics or calcium channel blockers but there are some caveats in special populations in which you may want to choose one of the other classes over another okay so with those blood pressure goals in mind. It seems obvious that one indication to start a second anti hypertensive would be in patients who have inadequate control with monotherapy but in patients. Not already on anti hypertensive medication. At what blood pressure would you consider outright initiation of combination? Therapy two hundred over three hundred. That blood pressure. I guess I would treat it if that was a blood pressure. I'M GONNA go one sixty over one hundred. Yeah SO SYSTOLIC. Blood PRESSURE GREATER THAN ONE. Sixty or greater than twenty above goal or diastolic blood pressure greater than one hundred or greater than ten millimeters of mercury above goal would be the reason to start outright combination therapy or two hundred two hundred hundred. Yeah it was close next question. The combination of which two classes of first line anti hypertensive should be avoided is an arbs. I was GONNA say that. That's right. You should avoid ace inhibitor. Plus Arb- in combination as this can increase the risk of NC dream disease and has not been shown to have any mortality benefit. Moving on the Jhansi. Eight found witch strategy superior with regards to initiation of combination anti hypertensive. Therapy patriation of monotherapy to maximal dosage. Before adding second agent or adding a second agent before reaching maximal dosage with a single agent definitely adding a second agent before eating maximum reaching maximal dosage. I'm going to support Michelle and not answer trick. Question who neither strategy has been shown superior likewise for adding a third agent. Let's talk more specifics. About some special populations in black patients. At least one anti hypertensive should be from which to classes of first line? Anti hypertensive medications thighs. I'd calcium channel block thing. We're a good team Michelle. That's right speaking of Diet sides. The preferred that is II. Diabetic is close allies. That's right patients with heart. Failure with reduced ejection. Fraction should receive a witch classes of anti hypertensive medications to improve morbidity and mortality. Going back to the ACE inhibitors Beta blocker. Nice in ace inhibitor. Orb Or Andrew tents receptor knepper lisin inhibitor or Arnie plus a Beta blocker. Once the patient no longer has symptoms of volume overload are indicated the addition of sperone lactone or Appel reknown to ace inhibitor therapy decreases morbidity and mortality in these patients especially after acute myocardial. Infarction consider a diuretic based on volume status. How ABOUT FIRST? Line anti hypertensive medication for patients with chronic kidney disease with protein area. Feel like I'm just repeating myself but ace inhibitors. Ace inhibitors or arbs have been shown to decrease progression to end stage. Renal disease finally for our diabetic patients does it. Matter which of the sign medications you choose. Maybe yeah sure about that. Answer of a maybe like Depending on their property screening right right so not unless they have protein area. In which case use an ace inhibitor or an Arab next up we have steps remember? Step stands for safety tolerability effectiveness price and simplicity. This steps looks at s. Ketamine or name-brand Bravado. Vodka for treatment resistant. Depression as Ketamine is an isomer of ketamine and acts as an antagonised on the in. Methyl D aspartame receptor. Its exact mechanism is unknown and it's labeled uses for the treatment of resistant depression in those already. Taking an oral antidepressant. Jake what do we know about its safety? There are a few safety concerns to mention here so the risk of abusir diversion with this. Medication is quite high in caution is warranted in those with a history of drug abuse or dependence. Dissociation and sedation are the most commonly reported side effects and after administration patients should be observed for two hours and not allowed to drive until the following day. It can also raise blood pressure so patients with a history of vascular inr `ISMs ATM's or Intra Cranial Hemorrhage should not receive it s ketamine should also be avoided in children adolescents pregnant or nursing mothers or those with a paddock impairment. Eliza is it tolerable. Well Ma- adverse effects are actually pretty common dizziness. Vertigo and nausea happens in twenty to thirty percent of patients. You also mentioned the blood pressure issue. Seventeen percent of patients will have a substantial increase in their blood pressure within two hours of administration to other common side effects are Hypospadias Asia and anxiety. One in twenty patients will discontinue the medication due to these side effects. Will that's not super reassuring. Hopefully it's effective I them. It was studied in two. Rcti's against Placebo where patients depression was not responding to at least to appropriately dosed antidepressants. And the addition of s Ketamine did not show a clinically significant difference in achieving remission. Although in patients that did achieve remission significantly fewer patients relapsed while taking ketamine with a number needed to treat a five. Please tell me it's redeeming. Quality is that it's affordable. Though right you would be incorrect. A one month supply of the induction phase ranges from five thousand to seventy five hundred dollars depending on the dose maintenance doses range from the slightly better twenty five hundred. Thirty seven fifty I don't think I even want to ask him about its simplicity. Yeah the International S Ketamine must be given under direct supervision of a health care professional that is enrolled in the manufacturer's risk evaluation and mitigation strategies the initial doses fifty six milligrams and then either fifty six milligrams eighty four milligram. Dosages should be given twice per week for four weeks then it should be given weekly for four weeks and finally after nine weeks it can be given every one to two weeks want to bottom line. This one four streak. No I don't but I will and here it is. It's costly their safety concerns and requires pretty substantial monitoring plus. It doesn't even sound effective so it really should be reserved for patients with resistant depression. Who can't undergo other things like e C T receive IV Ketamine? Okay guys. I'm excited. Let's hit this practice guidelines and this one is group. B. Streptococcus disease updates guidelines for the management of at risk infants this kind of replaces the CDC's two thousand ten guideline for GPS and is based on evolving epidemiology new data and changing practice. Standards this comes from the AARP and endorsed by Aycock. Gbs disease is the most common cause of newborn early onset sepsis and a major cause of late onset sepsis in infants there are two flavors epidemiologically early onset. Gps is from birth to six days of life and late onset is one week through three months of age. I let's screening screen. All pregnant people with vaginal rectal culture. Thirty six to thirty seven weeks or for any pregnant person with preterm labor premature rupture of membranes before thirty seven weeks rectal. Vaginal culture isn't needed if into natal urine culture was already positive for. Gps NUCLEIC ACID amplification. Tests are not recommended for GBS screening in February. Twenty Twenty Cog published a committee opinion on the prevention of GPS early onset disease in newborns that reported that GPS nucleic acid amplification tests can have a false negative rate of seven to ten percent therefore acog recommends against routine use of this test if NASA T. results are obtained for an intra-party impatient with unknown. Gbs Status Aycock recommends that patients receive antibiotic prophylaxis if they have a positive. Gps result or a negative GB S. A. T. result with risk factors of justiciable age less than thirty seven weeks rupture of membranes longer than eighteen hours or maternal fever a negative. Gps N. A. T. Results can eliminate the need for antibiotic prophylaxis if none of these risk factors are present. Let's talk prevention of early onset. Gbs disease who should receive intra-party antibiotics for prophylaxis all patients with a positive antenatal. Gps SCREEN GPS bacteria at any point in the pregnancy a previous infant with GPS disease or those with preterm Labor or premature rupture prior to thirty seven weeks. Additionally those in Labor at thirty seven weeks or greater who have not been screened should get intra-party prophylaxis if they develop a fever or have ruptured membranes for eighteen hours or more. Lastly and this one is new current recommendations state that have. Gps status is unknown. But the patient is known to have had GBS colonization in a previous pregnancy. In part in prophylaxis can be considered the committee. Opinion points out that those would be colonization and one pregnancy. Have an estimated fifty percent risk of colonization in a subsequent pregnancy. So it's reasonable to offer prophylaxis as shared decision making process in this scenario. Okay so you've determined that profile is indicated. What's the antibiotic of choice? Penicillin remains the drug of choice. Ampicillin IS AN ACCEPTABLE ALTERNATIVE FIRST GENERATION. Cephalosporin for those penicillin allergy and low risk for NFL axis and Clinton Mason for those with high risk for NFL axis. But only if the susceptibility the Clinton Mason is known and if there is a high risk for NFL axis and there's Clinton Mason resistance go with vancomycin newborn assessment for early onset. Ubs disease involves looking for clinical indicators of disease like vital sign instabilities supplemental Oto requirement or need for. C-pap mechanical ventilation or blood pressure support. Cbs's should not be done routinely to assess for risk due to their lack of clinical. Utility hypoglycemia should not be considered a sign of early onset. Gps disease all right guys. Let's talk about assessment of the newborn once they're out and this is where the guideline is a little less clear. They give us three options for infants at thirty five weeks gestation greater recommendations now include the option to use a multi variant risk assessment with the neonatal early onset sepsis calculator which considers risk factors and clinical condition to identify the level of risk and provide recommendations based on that level the calculators available online through Kaiser Permanent Day recommendations also include an option for risk assessment based only on the clinical condition of. The newborn. Antibiotics are administered. Only if the infant is ill appearing this is based on the fact that risk of early onset infection is reduced by sixty to seventy percent if the new warren is in good clinical condition at birth. The third option for risk assessment is what previous guidelines have recommended the so-called category goal risk assessment in this approach a maternal inter-parte fever. It would result in blood. Cultures Impact Antibiotics for the well appearing infant or for the infant born in the setting of inadequate intercomm. Pardon Prophylaxis they would be clinically observed for thirty six to forty eight hours for infants. Born earlier than thirty five weeks obtain a blood culture and start and pick antibiotics. If the cause of preterm birth was cervical insufficiency preterm Labor premature rupture of membranes enter amniotic infection or acute or unexplained non reassuring fetal status this regardless of intrepid on prophylaxis. All right and so then for the infant. That's born before thirty five weeks but falls in the low risk group like those with maternal or fetal indications for the preterm birth birth by C. Section in the absence of labor attempts to induce Labor or rupture membranes before delivery. What do you do with those ones Elissa? If the MOM has received adequate inter-party prophylaxis than the infant does not require empirical antibiotics if there are no signs of sepsis or maternal intra-party Fever. Great thanks for that overview. This is a big change because it replaces that two thousand ten. Cdc Guideline that we've been using for so on like ten years K guys we're GONNA put prevention into practice here. This putting prevention into practice looks at medication used to reduce risk of breast cancer. And it comes to us from Dr Tina Fan from arc and Addio faulk laid. Who's a general preventative? Medicine resident at Case Western the USPS CF recommends offering to prescribe risk reducing medications to ASEM dramatic patients who are at increased risk for breast cancer and at low risk for adverse medication effects. This is a grade. B recommendation although there is no specific cutoff for defining increased risk for all patients. Those with at least three percent risk of breast cancer in the next five years are likely to derive more benefit than harm from risk reducing medications and should be offered these medications if their risk of harmse's low the. Us does not endorse any particular prediction. Tool to calculate a patient's risk though various risk calculators are publicly available for use you can also use combinations of risk factors to identify patients at increased risk of developing breast cancer. Examples include patients over the age of sixty five with one first degree relative with breast cancer patients. Forty five years of age or older with more than one first degree relative with breast cancer or one first degree relatives who developed breast cancer before age. Fifty patients forty years age or older with a first degree relative with bilateral breast cancer or a personal history of a prior biopsy results. Showing atypical doctor or Labile. Hyperplasia or Lobola Carcinoma insight. You Okay Jake. Tell us about the meds to mock sutphin relaxing and aroma taste. Inhibitors have been shown to provide benefit in reducing risk for breast cancer in patients at increased risk only tomography is indicated for use in pre menopausal patients to mock. Sutphin AND RELAX. Athene may decrease the risk of fractures in patients with osteoporosis. Eliza what about the harms to mock Sutphin and relax iffy in have an increased risk of thromboembolic events to mock seven has also been shown to increase the risk of development of endometrial cancer and cataracts the risk of enemies. Israel cancer and thromboembolic events are higher in older patients. All three classes of medications may increase the risk of visa motor or musculoskeletal symptoms in some patients determined to be at increased risk of breast cancer. Should be offered risk reduction medication however these potential benefits should be balanced against the potential harms of adverse medication effects. Great let's on a main topic. Genital ulcers differential diagnosis and management. And this comes from Dr Michelle Rohit from Georgetown. When you guys think genital ulcers what comes to mind that's a question for the ages Michelle but really I think. Hiv Syphilis Hueco. Just named the most common causes infectious causes are much more likely but there are some non infectious causes. Well we'll start with the most common herpes simplex virus one and two Jake. What would you expect? On history and physical for herpes. Simplex the classic genital HIV is most reliably diagnosed with observation of painful shallow ulcers investigators on an earth space. These are commonly preceded by pro drill. Symptoms of Tingling for some infections can also cause constitutional symptoms and lymph at an apathy and notably impatience. That have recently started antiretroviral therapy. There's an increased risk of outbreaks a presumptive diagnosis can be made by observation of these lesions or definitive diagnosis by pr of the ulcer or vesicles fluid. Elissa had we treat hse Eisai Clavier Valley. Cyclo viewer or Fan. Stickler can all be used with varying doses durations. Physicians should treat without waiting for serologic results. Treatment has been shown to prevent HIV transmission reduce healing time and relief pain. Suppressive therapy should be offered to prevent transmission as patients with HIV to have viral shedding up to ten percent of the time in the absence of an outbreak. This has agreed B. Recommendation. Even on suppressive therapy there is still a viral. Shutting and transmission can still occur in pregnant women. Suppressive therapy reduces the risk of recurrence by seventy five percent and reduces the rate of c-section due to H S V by forty percent. All right. Let's move on to the second most common syphilis. Jake what do we expect here on? Ancient be the characteristic. Lesion here is a single painless indicated ulcer with a clean base otherwise known as Shankar. These patients can also have tinder. Inguinal lymphatic apathy. Men who have sex with men have the highest prevalence of syphilis and the physicians should routinely asked US population about sti symptoms trap. Nima Paladin can be identified from the schenker or lymph node aspirin. Whoever is doing that on dark field microscopy or by direct fluorescent antibody a presumptive diagnosis can be made with a positive non trapani will test like our PR and confirmed with a trip minimal test as the RPR can be falsely positive with certain conditions. Eliza what can you tell us about this treatment? All phases of syphilis should be treated with intramuscular penicillin G Benzathine. Two point four million units. This is one of the few times that if the patient has an allergy to penicillin. They should actually undergo desensitization. And then treat with penicillin. Sexual partners exposed within ninety days before diagnosis should also undergo treatment due to the high prevalence of syphilis in men who have sex with men presumptive. Treatment should be initiated prior to results. Nontraditional Antibody titre are used to monitor response and treatment is considered successful with a four fold decrease in these tigers in pregnancy if syphilis is untreated it has an eighty percent fetal infection rate and forty percents stillbirth or miscarriage rate other infectious officers. Include the Schenker oid which usually presents as a non-integrated painful lesion with Pigeons border and FRY will base with an acrostic imperialist exceed eight painful unilateral lymph at an apathy can occur and it may transform into those scary booze a whopping seven patients were diagnosed in the US. In two thousand seventeen though the non infectious causes are pretty rare but include psoriasis. Shed Syndrome fixed drug eruption sexual trauma or Wagner's granular matosas and to rounded out Elissa. Tell us about prevention and screening the US pse F recommends screening for syphilis in those at risk pregnant women but against HIV screening and ace symptomatic patients including pregnant patients and remember to offer pre exposure prophylaxis for patients at risk of free HIV which includes those previously diagnosed with syphilis. Bottom line here. Most genital ulcers diagnosed in the. Us WILL BE H v one or two or syphilis. Our guys under ready. We're going to wrap this episode up with. Afp Clinical Answers quickfire round. Remember listeners if you want more information about any of these topics checkout a p dot org slash. Atfp here we go. What therapies are effective for the common cold over the counter? Analgesics Andy Congestions with or without antihistamines. Not antihistamines alone and for kids. Nasal ceiling irrigation menthol. Rub An honey. If they're over twelve months no cold meds in kids under four for maintenance fluid in hospitalized. Children should hypo tonic or ice. Oh tonic solution. Be used as tonic to prevent hypo natrium. Ya with a number needed to treat of eight. How should you counsel patients about e cigarette use e cigarette use is not recommended for youth? Talk to adults about the hazards and Safe Storage. And try evidence-based cessation methods. I is cognitive behavioral therapy an effective treatment for postpartum depression. Yes the addition of CBT reduces depressive symptoms more effectively than usual. Care alone like medication and other therapies. What is the best approach to treat multiple Actinic toasties of the head topical five percent fluorouracil once weekly for four weeks? And that's Rep. Nice job guys. This is renee crisslow from the University of Minnesota Department of Family Medicine Community Health. Go gophers please. Email us at a p podcasts at W. P. DOT ORG or tweet at AFP podcast. Please rate and comment on Apple podcasts. Our podcast team is Jake. Anderson Caroline Blogger Stephen Brown. Sarah Coles Elissa Cori- Gene Victoria Herbert's Rosenbaum Michelle. Somare and Hilary. Tamar are sounding technical guru is tyler. Coles theme song is written and recorded by family. Physicians Bill dabs Ryan Evans and Justin Jenkins. This podcast is brought to you. By residents and Faculty of the University of Arizona. College of Medicine Phoenix Family Medicine residency. We'll talk to you soon for the next edition of the American family physician podcast.

Rosenbaum Michelle Jake ace inhibitor Ketamine Sarah Coles Elissa Cori- Gene American family physician Rene crisslow Eliza family physician College of Medicine Phoenix Fa American Academy of Family Phy Penicillin syphilis Us Michelle I Cova University of Arizona Genital Ulcers
NutriMedical Report Show Thursday June 27th 2019  Hour One  Dr Bill Deagle MD, CRN Talk Radio Launch Show Signal July 1st 2019, Red Deer Velvet DR First US Patent STOPS Aging In History, Latest on Epigenetic SONG of DNA Therapies,

NutriMedical Report

59:50 min | 1 year ago

NutriMedical Report Show Thursday June 27th 2019 Hour One Dr Bill Deagle MD, CRN Talk Radio Launch Show Signal July 1st 2019, Red Deer Velvet DR First US Patent STOPS Aging In History, Latest on Epigenetic SONG of DNA Therapies,

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He will provide a consultation and other proper advice and other technology augment, your recovering take care with nutraceutical dot com. Sonic life of Sheen's, while the most amazing therapies have darkened Bill provides is the best time leave exercises. She on the planet to whole-body vibration, opening up the muscle to reduce insulin resistance improve perfusion released them cell therapy wrote the body and genetic may stimulate the by to release DNA activated. The genetics therapy with the sine wave curve of frequencies given for Tomek residents. But cited Linus Pauling for minerals and amino acids. Hce production of messenger. Correct structural protein enzyme deficiency for almost every illness. There's nothing like the sine wave therapy for improving body healing for exercise. Also the genetic treatments. Dr Belkin provide can help neutralize futon cheese or Z states and Elvis, get an sonic life machines, who Dr Phil Diggle at neutral medical dot com. Contact us at neutral dot com. Triple eight to one two eight seventy one or go to the website and medical and gives a contact Dr bills available to help you get well. Fanatical. Welcome back. Really appreciate. All you people there that are not only taking nutraceutical Neutra medical deporting our ministry. It's a health ministry. It's geopolitical conservative ministry, and spiritual ministry to give you the truth and all these areas and you can go to neutral medical dot com. There's links to other websites clay and iron dot com or Christian and above top secret classified information technology site, clay and iron dot com. Which is like the statue and playing Jenner prophesied by prophet, Daniel. We have eagle hyphen network, which has not only our show. But all our, our co-host show up people's well the nice thing about the network is we're now building pages for every one of our calls, so clan Klein, John, w spring darker, your Winker, all have the some pages, and we have a rotating banner at the top of Berta products and we change that, but as you listen to all of their shows by going there and searching for the sub topic you're looking for. So it makes it searchable. So we have a little AI. We built into the system that we've. Launching here, a couple of announcements last week, I got a patent on my product red deer velvety are, which the first product in the world with a US patent that actually stopped aging. I'll explain a little bit, you need to building blocks nor to rebuild your body every day. Now, a lot of people rely on their food, even if they have an organic diet, the problem is our food is deteriorating. Specially over the last century, we have studies going back in the late nineteen forties. Siri nineteen nineties new purpose agriculture 'cause they're often quite a bit ahead of the research going on their research, going on by even medical communities, looking at what causes animals become sick. For example, if you have a deficiency of trace elements like selenium it kills turkeys. They actually die of ruptured air to gain. Here's some sewing. You have to understand that. The soil depletion is pretty serious and without minerals. You don't turn on skull Abbas land. You don't turn on your genes every body protein and enzyme requires mineral to turn on the messenger, Ernie to actually do it. And there's a frequency of that mineral cockatiel by Linus Pauling back in the early nineties, the master of stair chemistries allowed to create with Watson Crick, the discovery of DNA, stereo, chemistry's, very important, because the little telomeres, Lil intended, the end of your chromosome talks. Ryan channels in this call your nuclear plaza, the hold your eukaryotic DNA and what it does basically is open the ion channel minerals and taxi turn on production of messenger, earn a to make your structural proteins and enzymes. Now, there are some effects of amino acids, but the primary thing has minerals. And so I do now of EPA genetic frequencies therapy by basically doing blood tests or quantum tests to identify which minerals a balanced in only your blood. Blood, which we can do. It's very slabs like Brady in valley labs. Great Plains lab on whole blood, and they do advanced technologies for identifying nuclear spectroscopy using plasma neutron spectroscopy, which is using neutron beam. We can then determine which frequencies we need to put it. And then we give you the minerals. No. Of course vitamin max and minerals, plus our Albion key late. So they're super high absorb because it's a special award winning technology. We have other layers of technology. I have mono Tomic deteriorate depleted minerals that I advice specialisms on a custom make them on a console and I have pretty well. Every been, you can imagine from them, which, by the way, people started pronounce about molybdenum is necessary to do methylation pass based to get rid of home assisting condemned charter, while your brain. But also methylation mile Nate your brain to create your digestive enzymes, and also to protect against performer offie and to detox heavy metals and toxic chemicals, because the street primary pass base for detoxing methylation. We attached message group Glueck around a nation of the Garonne, radical molecule branch and methylation pathways, and self Atia self Asian methylated and glucose on a nation and. Those are supported by our vitamin, Royal max formulas minerals, plus, and especially the life support formula, which are drink contains face to detox support now. You need a combination of signal plus up since, and I'm pioneering technology EPA genetic frequency therapy. Rife did this back century go and using the frequency tables, based on his research will, I've actually advanced beyond rife and what you can actually calculate it out. Is I'm working with a solo scope. Now right now at ten this little scope to go at the acupuncture point to extract specific body frequencies disease right now. I'm can do it right. And my studio in my lab here, but I'm also working on technology to actually do cancelling frequently so down the road, I want to create a diagnostic devices. Doctors nurses can use in the future, maybe ten years, or five years from now, when I get the patents as they can actually use it to diagnose disease and actually put noise canceling frequencies to turn off the quantum bio circuits that allow cancer spread or artery Diplock or to identify a pasture neutralize in your body like lime disease. So that technologies Maxine discovered house works for not only human. But all lifeforms, which is based on the song of the NFL, call literally, the voice of God, speaking to our DNA and how the create structural proteins enzymes, and the origami DNA that actually recruits, the structural frequencies to create a hierarchy of code, how to create at hand or die, or for example, tree, or fruit or seed any living saying, basically is based on frequency at holographic DNA. I worked on the mathematics, my first lecture on this was nineteen eighty to call on maser cytogenetics panel by this, including Dr Rowlands, head of the department of biophysics at the university of Calgary Alberta. So I have skill sets Neri's are much broader than every doctor. Now, what I'm doing is what's called functional mess and didn't exist, especially when I went to medical school, but, I'll just only dealt with dead people living, pathology, or integrated message deals with living trying to extend life and reduce drug need, or to integrate it with, for example, if someone came in I talked to a gentleman yesterday. Got a bad knee. Now I'm going to range from to see north beak surgeon to clean the out doing minor repair of the minuscule partial repair of the ligaments, and just get out and put Highland, which is six million polymer, while we give him nutraceutical regenerate stem, cell support and via regulatory peptides developed by the Russian Academy of sciences. And dr. The head of the kademi of anti-aging medicine Europe, now was the head of the research facility in Russia. In Saint Petersburg, and these by regulatory peptides, many researchers now at American elsewhere develop these different types of peptides, different organs. He's helped regenerate specific organ tissues, we ones for joints, the brain, thyroid testicles over his liver kidneys. In fact, use them in what Mark Benham and up in Hollywood, actually, to regenerate his kidneys, and he's kept to else's out for two years with hat an illusion photon and my nutraceutical. So we haven't given them all the layers of provide, including he has not had a stem cell fast, but he's actually stopped losing kidney function till he's not getting a kidney transplant less. So what I'm doing pioneering things that are totally new with red development, DR capsule, three hundred molecules and six hormones are protected, so they're not destroyed by your stomach acid peps or these sexes enteric digestive enzymes. So that a lot with genetic frequency treatment, we are looting step. By step toward car-crazy diagnosing on conquering metal the aging disease and we're not very far. We're matter of months years, decades lay from conquering, the actual process of aging, which is basically informational is not the hey, flicked theory, or the shortening of the telomere theory, or any of these theories. It's actually information flake, the ever really good fodder cocker to photocopy something, the hundreds welded copy is still high quality. Well, that's what we're doing is increasing with these technologies at supplements, and our supplements. Neutra medical very unique because they're bioactive aided, vile vailable bio persist, in other words, we jump all gene defects, whether it's conversion of full of acid to five methyl fully reduc days activated be six or any other supplement fat soluble vitamin, which is completely different irregular, Simon. What happens is our interests goals are bio, converted bioavailable, envir- persistent. And that's really neat. So our drinks like life support ageless neutral, complete, which is the best ridge. Greece drink polyphenols. Randy oxidants are glycemic secen tastic for muscle building for weight loss and diabetes control. And now we ever new product Kito power, and I have my drink beside me. And the core of my drink is power once coop, which is three different salts of Kitone bodies meeting, famed frankness rides glycemic, which will actually block are hydrates and lower insulin and combine to bring me now I can add to that mega muscles amino acids. Dr wolf to build up mouthfuls exercise sonic life machine for a fraction of a second. You have a four G effect, some using resistance bands or lightweight those waits for a fraction of a second piece by four hundred percent in terms of the effect on gold. You tended that PROST and your muscles to make you stronger what that means without putting yourself in danger like cross fit. You could actually dramatically increase tighten up your muscles lose weight regime metabolism, pump Vatican bumpier per full blood vessels. Because blood perfusion to your tissues, initially heart contracting, that you get a secondary contraction of your blood vessels, that causes secondary sharing force of your arteries, arterials, vascular bed with nitric oxide, and that pumps blood to your tissue and all the blood flow. Back to your heart is not due to the heart heart does not pump any blood back to it self and only pump to the lung fields and then to the era and the secondary contraction of your arteries trails pumps to your per free. I've worked all the signs of this based in research published by cardiologists are also physiologists that have published non Newtonian fluid dynamic equations, because I'd vent science knowledge, very few doctors including cardiologists, understand this. I worked with Harvard cardiologists back in the late nineties ninety two thousand I only do laser scholar for mission. Blood viscosity, by the way, blood viscosity is not ready to the intrinsic and extra blood pathway so drugs, like eloquence relative, or dangerous, because he tried to interfere with blood. Pathways. There is not an average Malibu blood past week, people have hyper viscous blood that informed Klotz, like Adria. And if there are one of twenty five percent of the population could sort of that cloud from the ready to left, and then up to their brain to give a stroke blood thickness, do to clumping of antibiotics and the outside of cells, and redux potential, and we can reverse that we can reverse that with therapy. They float on sound generates on your body, the hyperbaric chamber can have zone concentrator pumps into the chamber, and we can give you the oxidants, like R H, two plex hydrogen ultra sign would be wanted to get rid of single of oxygen. We have cell detox glued aside. Hydro proxy radical. We have the Gamay plus trials took Farrell's and get rid of the Nitra proxy radical have cell defensive plus the most seven times, more absorbed Coon anywhere else in the world. We have a new powder that will be bringing out in private labeling shortly. That is Ron twenty to thirty times more absorbed, cocoon you can mix drink or you can put in a cream and it has amazing properties. Curcumin tomorrow is the only herbal that actually gets rid of cancer stem cells and outside kind autoimmune disease, cancer, and serious chronic infections, like staff, Oreos live disease, or virus fell, pioneering all his lab tests. Catch some scientists, I use imaging studies Emory C T scan quantitative electron flow, grams spec, blood flow, scans whatever I can review the ball, I do video. And guess a new video link after the consultation of review my love. Patriots reform that I've put together so you get a very, very thorough consul for. And it connect to other clinics pudding, surgical, clinics stem, cell clinics, cancer clinic, free insulin, potentially chemo. I don't do it but for people like yesterday we had Dr your Winkler and Carlsbad who's about twenty minutes away. Dr Uragan force, if I need anything, of course, they don't have any major news. It's minor stuff. I have little exit flared up recently, and he would be the doctor for my family and my friends. I had a friend who actually had cancer, who enter cancer, every Dr Winkler and had dramatic results improve it. So what you need understand, is provide you free starter protocols. No charge. Twenty five ninety five percent of my call backs to people by Email or phone, our free. I will tell you what protocols gentlemen, in UK that Astra protocol this morning. For example, you want one for page pylori. In fact, let me just. Gentlemen, is whereas in the UK here, it is, is name is Jody and Jodi in UK wanted us, the first started level, that'd be gastro he'll chew tablets four times a day. Zinc Karmazin the hill got this office stomach Berber stat in two cups with each meal, dine fifteen jobs in water with the plasma hiding to kill pathogens Alison Medi-Cal three times a day. And I would have probably add to that a probiotic like living probiotic capsule twice a day. You could also add living probiotic ultra one every third day. So you want to recall, nice got because officers spouses, if that dispels position it was called SIB L, or small bowel overgrowth that can cause pancreatitis chronic Cain, crank or tastes. We're lead to cancer. And because there's no nerves in the pancreas, you don't get warning before you to deters to cancer. So I recommend someone hears. I still test RAB normal despite houses. We do an ultrasound of the proud of them to look for. assists, her Pancras, if that's positive I recommend scan pet scan to look for cancer, after we do cancer cell markers, if they're positive they're not positive. I'd recommend then do treatment for CBO and then make sure the mccanns at so markers disappear. We're like Naga lays another markers. We can measure it labs. So I'm adding a layer of coal living pathology testing integrate with surgery medicine intensive care, for example, if someone's dying in hospital of an infection are high power seen even if you're gonna call Mont. So a feeding tube. We'll turn off your side of guide levels, along with whom and will decide to kill you. It's not the passage into kills you. It's your own immune cells releasing cited kinds. We can do that now today. Neutra medicals new chew silver is a new Angstrom, silver wrapped in hydrogen liposomes, ends, amac envelope to deliver to target tissues. It will kill viruses, bacteria parasites passages. 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Yeah, gary. We have Gary on next hour. Now what's happening is Mark? Did the research on the nine eleven mystery plane? You've also done research, many other topics I wanted to do to mention because do you have websites purchase your books and other papers. Website for my nasty book the book about nasty Christianity. And that is. Nostitz secrets dot com. And that features that one book my to nine eleven are featured at trend dot com. That is teasing Tom in EDA. Why dot com they can give. Amazon. Yeah, so yeah, those books, what is the name of the book? And I think it's it's one of those books. It's called what black nine eleven. And the other one is the nine eleven mystery play. Yeah. Say a little bit slower. So people can hear because little bit of muffling in your phone. The what's the title of the first book, they can go on Amazon, or trying books tier I. N. E. Y. Y dot com trying to dot com. What's the first book again? Go slower. Nine eleven black nine eleven. And what's the other one is called nine eleven mystery plane. Right, right right now, the cici's that you have of those, and I'd like you to summarize, what is because we're gonna talk about a new paper today, we're going to post up talking about earth changes. And I've been tracking this for number of years based on information I have from regular classified sources. For example, as I mentioned on the testimony gave you this morning. I was given security clearance. Same levels of present or above called above top secret to work and take care of employees that US missile defense and space commanded many other classified projects, including the virtual world project shreve air force base. And what you do is talking about nine eleven because I was the exit examiner for the P Murrah building when major swinger was way, doing airtime in Fort Hood, Texas, and because of the next down to the commander in nineteen when it happened the building demolition, because it was. Listen, it wasn't a explosion by Tim Zimmer vais or Stras Meyer from east Germany. Whatever demolished that it was actually bombs, but inside the building, to demolish inside actually viewed this with a with a phrase magician experts end even generals on my show over the years, because I've been doing a show on clear channel back in the nineties, two hours a day on Wednesdays with Mark Allen cre-, call after the best medicine, then last working, and half years. I've been on Justice network Republic radio rents network. And now last expensive of my own, we'll be we've been sending Cigna for the last two years to red state talkradio. Number one talk radio network for internet and revolution radio. And we'll be sending signal over also to Sierra talkradio goes and every platform on the planet pretty well. So the information I provide provide more classified information about more secret projects in hidden knowledge than India, their individual and human history. And I'm not exaggerating. When I say that, and I bring on experts like. Self geniuses to track down, and find an always, and find things that says you don't have to necessarily have all the answers the thing that I say it's watch for to my entire show, is you don't necessarily have the answers, but ask better questions. And when you ask better questions, you start finding alleys the answer to a question you haven't asked yet. So you're two books if you were to summarize what those two books were. What would you say? Black nine eleven and the nine eleven mystery playing. If you're saying nights a couple of minutes. What's your main ceases, you? Discover the or the backbone of those two books, which I believe are essential reading because we're gonna time history where the globalist that are controlling our world and Estado government. The deep state, that's running. Our world is not our elected officials at all. It. There's a smile group running the country and. Definitely been the setting up and staging these attacks. No question about it. The. Eleven I would recommend as a starter as I one to look at for your listeners, I present evidence in there about the insider trading. That happened before the two or three days before the attacks. And we have learned has been there been new disclosures in the last year of information act requests. To these occurs Exchange Commission and they have Lisa one of documents that confirmed by research and the range of other people that this was inside. Is curious and Exchange Commission information. There was a paper trail to the people who did these trades, and the SEC new and they just covered it up. Right. But was going on. With also gold from the Bank of Nova Scotia's disappeared from the bottom of the World Trade Center tower two. There was also a notice given to a lot of people in the building, clothing. The vestige company from Israel one was in the building. My wife's cousin who's father was African. Then his her mother was my her mother's grabbed my wife's mother's sister. Their daughter actually was a fater with a master's with. NBA v and her husband at the World Trade Center in the mix division of the building. We're told not to be in the building. So she wasn't in the building that it was. He he when he came back, yet, when froze that our towers claps, he didn't know that she hadn't received a notice because he was a north Manhattan at a different site forever. And he tried to search through the debris because most people realize when the buildings were Tamala they were. They were demolished with micro nukes. Ardi Xie expose of corden possibly, super survey, and the only nation, researching super surveys, high explosives, Israel, and I have actually, the radiological analysis of the US Geological Survey, including fifty five times, higher levels of tritium in the World Trade Center tower, we know that no steel building and is fallen due to heating of carpets and drapes and material inside the building anything paramedic including people concrete, or any Pearman, neck structure, including alumina was APR is, including the at ten tower on top of the building. But the explosion of high energy x rays and neutron flux particles, and I'm an expert in nuclear physics as well. Here it was the training, they got interested in doing the research on nine eleven. That was the first thing that got my attention. When I heard about the tritium. Finishes. Komo's my Ed. Thirty of these Rulli nuclear weapons program. So I was formed about that, so that I was able to find out anything new on that particular issue. But I found out a lot of other things that led me to conclude, you know, that definitely was an inside job. Now, here's what happened is, I was the exit examiner because interested as way when the five special ops team came to me to be post examination after they went through the debris of the building Mira building in Oklahoma City, one broke down and want me to check his arm. Okay. He thought he had a radiation burn to radiation and said, they had reached detectors went off scale they removed to US army Gordon's near micro, nukes, REX, and Expos of C four pineapple in the Myrrha building. And when he had lose time near bar near fort Carson, they court martial them, and then they held me into the boardroom at Saint Francis hospital in ninety five and fired and gave me, desperate. Now, I'm not exactly Mr. passive as you probably know which is why I'm still alive. So I told major swinger in the board that you're going to give me a letter reference, and fifty thousand cash severance as you come within five hundred miles of me and my family, I am also by that time it was good buddies was delta sport force in special ops. I was their doctor when I said, I'll take you out. So the next day, I got the letter of reference in the fifty thousand and within a few years. I also then was exiting the examiner and appointment under reserve Admiral John Hughes for FEMA the FBI FEMA, the FBI CDC in operation top often, dark waiter, doing radiological, biological wargame terrorism for the United States government in Colorado. So I know more classified information and talk about a publicly than anybody person in history by a large margin. Now, what happened is that I know that the Israelis put the bombs in the building, and these security officer for the World Trade Center was Mark was, was actually the Marvin. Bush, the brother of George W Bush junior. The last day of work was nine eleven and ten years to the day. George Bush senior announced the, the, the new world order before nine eleven nine eleven. These towers where symbolic of ancient Hebrew temple thing called gestion Boaz when he wrote means he shall restore and strengthen if you look at the site rate now for New York City, and we have professional tour guide take us years ago to New York City, you have the three towers at the World Trade Center, we have the, the. World chaser wanted to basically memorial there and you have the one liberty tower. Right. The new replacement for the role truth state center towers, the what people have done is I've tried to do radiation, toxicology labs in America. My old alma mater, and other because I'm background in nuclear plasma physics. Okay. I'm not just a regular doctor, a chemist and nuclear expert in belong to nuclear visions of AAC on for years. Okay. So every lab is down the last lab trim down over three years ago in Japan and the Japanese lab told me after several months of trying to go sheet to get my material from the World Trade Center in analyzed, that the US State Department told them, they're not even allowed to talk to Dr deco now I haven't tried Russian or Tiny's labs yet, but I've tried labs from Europe, Germany Britain, France, Japan, sills Africa. And everyone's turn me down. Because US State Department in the NFC intervene down. I want you to know the reason why I'm not dead is because people out there, including people that listened to my program because I have people feeding me formation inside government agencies two years ago, I got the fake quota shopped ide- of Barack Obama was born in Kenya and his own grandma. We'll say she was upside the delivery room when he was born in Kenya. And I actually have the original end Photoshop material from the NSA sentiment because an agent was listening to my show. And sent me the information last year I had a guy from San com talked about North Korea and how they were tracking North Korea because all the nukes and North Korea are Russian Rossa, Tom, what side Moscow actually give the guidance systems in the rocket engines and everything, and they just upgraded since even Trump was there for the first means with, with Mr Kim. In North Korea. And they've operated missile systems further. Now, people need to understand what's going on is dangerous. So people like yourself and myself. I'm forming what's called a Samuel council, which means we need to get him outta we model talk if whether half an hour week with President Trump. He's got globalist idiots Mang. Platon form Satan? If you wanna call it advising protect. Warmongers giving example now. In the military, because I took care. I've been taking military, I've been I graduated forty story thirty nine years ago for my last year residency, but I graduated forty two years ago for medical school, and I've been around a long time, I'm sixty seven and a half, and I've seen more stuff than most people with multiple lifetimes and some the stuff. I wish I don't know. But I am brave enough to talk about it. And the reason why don't come me because you out there, I had one guy years ago, said, well dig, all if you know all this stuff, and you're so smart. What are they just killed me? I said, because if they killed me, you knucklehead might believe now, this is this is why my show was being suppressed even over Genesis because he told me the last time I was there last year. And if I couldn't even say in a commercial for my products that I had a show in the network because Alex and the people behind, Alex, by the way, Alex Jones was fully supported by these agencies including say father was deeply. And others that are out there that are basically their sinful opera trying to control the narrative. I'm a real American patriot and a real question and a real spiritual person that end understands it for Mason, at a level that I can't fully explain to people because it's too much for people to kind of absorb that my level of knowledge, but I'm gonna explain a bit a level that they can number one survivors changes that are coming. For example, just got an Email today from my context and Ireland and they have an article here, climate verge the airland set to ban private cars while planning mastered world world migration. Now you gotta understand or globalist know something's. And we're gonna talk about that in this next segment because you have to understand you're gonna hear on my show with experts life. Mark Gafni things are never going to here on coast to coast, talk radio anywhere or rate television or videos, you're going to hear things. You've never heard before that are going to make. Sense. And when you pray on go to hear the some of them stone say, you know this guy's not lying. He's telling the truth and raising good questions. Water is one of these central's of life pure water system to daughter Bill recommends includes four faces the first phases, linear charcoal, second-phase eighth best reverse osmosis, membrane, third phases in exchange, resum almost absolute water molecules that even in freezing for little spikes, because you're so clean. They crawl over each other. The fourth phase is a calcium magnesium, ninety parts that makes water ph rice attack. We have a whole host of one hundred system countertop reserve system. Prepar system, two hundred eight thousand five hundred auto flash system and the whole system of water for your dishes for bathing a cetera. Nothing life. Your water from Dr build eagle. Get it at Neutra medical dot com. 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We'll have to arrange for you to get the care, pars gold are darker build eagles detrimental seven here for our site as well set you up with the ICO coins, mature MAC and cheese. You're safe with medical every day. Improper digestion Mel digestion, is very common are correction is with nutriments gastro Zayn plant-based broad spectrum. Ph enzymes and digestives digest is restore stomach acid, and Pepsi, and the gas design is supports the pancreatic enzymes with plant based. Enzymes you could improve gesture dramatically reduce food allergies used just biosystems small vial over girls and improved overall body nutrition by digesting your food properly. Amazing formulas available neutral, medical dot com supposedly contact contactor building for a starter protocol for your just by else's small bowel over goals, or other problems with Mellon gesture or ulcers. That's Neutra medical dot com, and you tear, I medical dot com. Triple eight two two eight seventy one you can get a free starter. I'll just by contacting us by phone triple eight to twelve eight seventy one or by Email stay. Well, every day with Dutra medical in your life, the first hour of the neutral medical report, Monday to Friday deals with health, wellness anti-aging technology, but especially Friday, firing line is the first star with the host is Michelle Daego asking your questions bay to us by Email and phone triple eight two two eight seventy one or contact us dramatical. Your answers are given on air with breeding photocalls into science and technology explained simply behind, why we use this protocol to try to help you feel regenerate and valve, your house return, though, toxic poly pharmacy we integrated with regular medicine surgery and provide you a logical protocols anyone can get a free protocol by just emailing us starter. 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Doctor bills you try dine is simply the most powerful healing formula is try dine clears the body of all known pathogens scores into an alkaline state, and even promote tem cell regeneration order, bills, new, try dine today at triple eight to one to eighty seventy one or visit us online at neutral medical dot com. Welcome back. So we've got some interesting books here and I'm just going to run through this. If you go to Amazon or go to, to try and day dot com. You've got a couple of interesting books. You've got one here called nine eleven mystery plane a mystery to flying around nine eleven and the vanishing of America. Right. And then, of course, is all planned out. People have to realize the Patriot Act was actually written up to five years before by a battalion of attorneys year before nine eleven happened. Okay. Remember nine eleven happened very, very early on in the time of George W Bush senior junior. But actually the plan during the time of, of, of Bill Clinton, including the engineering of the Joint Strike Fighter, the thirty five which is not drive Strike Fighter at all. In fact, I have from Woolsey American, and Russian sources it couldn't fight nineteen seventies version, MiG jet in a firefight. So it was designed as the stealth bomber to bomb at six hundred kilograms nuclear material was the radar signature of bird up to almost mock too. So could fly over at target and blow it all the hell and there'd be no warning with thermal signature of. Missile coming in or anything else. So people known island was inside job. You've tracked very clearly this mystery plane. And then you have this book all black dine eleven and also talks about money, motive and technology. And you up dated that from two thousand twelve to two thousand sixteen and you had initial two thousand twelve of the black nine eleven and then you have another call a NAS tick secrets of the other reasons the initial chanting seems the initiate or teachings of the last supper, which I think, is, we'll get into that in another show. But I want you to talk about your books, and, and then I wanna get into what you talked about today. This article, I'm gonna post up voters changes because I don't have all the answers, but I have some pieces of the puzzle, and if I take my pieces of puzzle from Mike Haas, fight sources the earth and the history of our planet, and the human race is quite different than what you're told by the public or by teachers universities, or even public religions. It's not the same as it. Actually not. We have to. Have to discover, and they, they don't tell us we, we don't learn that in school. Do we blow Harry? Two months before I joined went to school nineteen Seventy-three. I was told I should join a medical journey. So join Firoz sigma now. Tapped up by Dina Madison and I'll get into another show, but we don't have a lot of time left here, but the knowledge of the human race the knowledge averse and so on completely different, especially the people have kept knowledge are the orders, which is why they believe they are supervision. That's why I don't care what holy book worship with withers tobacco Gita the ranch. Yeah. The book of the dead, the Steffi Zaira the bible. They don't care what holy book, as long as you're going to come into their initiative order and learn secrets about the nature of the human race in planters, and our galaxy in our cosmos, and these knowledge is are kept by people. Believe it or not. They're in different layers, so that they can be manipulated by people hired higher ups that are basically loose affair control freaks and. A lot of knowledge is actually pretty scary stuff. I mean it's pretty weird. It's like real Star Wars. For example, very first thing I was taught at US base command, does that we control every cubic centimeter space, teen here in Mars. And I said, you mean here in Mon and the director of space, command said, two miles underground, in foreign forty seat theater. Run by digital exempt from former Disney corP writing a movie explainable depletion nuclear weapons for forty five minutes. We contain canola every Sam eater, you talked about our space Leach, which Gary Mackay member that Asper Scottish kid tacked into the naval computers and got it in the, the flightless of international groups of a flight people Star Wars that fly between hair and Mars. Now, people don't know what I know. I mean public and you don't hear it even on Costa calls, reader elsewhere. But I took care of John gala who work with Phil Schneider, and the underground telling machines, Bechtel corporation, creating underground, cities, and by the mid nineties, they're actually making a new underground city, or dumb every seven weeks on average, gene. Gene. Six and ten cubic miles in size, most of the ones they like were endorsement magma domes, because the crust of the earth moves on the mantle. Every so often, which means that, let's disjunction where the actual cross slides and the hotspot feeding volcanoes goes, they I discovered this when they did imaging from space to look foods called gravitons imaging, which they have what's called torsion field, imaging so they can identify say a submarine via Russian signature at the bottom of the slurry trench off of Japan, which is miles down. Well, the actually could scan for the years to look at minerals. So all mineral resources underground facilities, including ancient wants to go back tens of thousands of years are all mapped up by these peoples by space command. I know. Okay, this is not just a theory people Jonathan gray whose main archaeologist is actually been some of these underground cities in Asia in Turkey and South America. Okay. So this is not a Siri is the fact. Okay. And so you have not only nine eleven is an inside job when planned out years in advance, but now even the green agenda. The Democrats are pushing the screen gender, because there's something more to it. Isn't it? And I don't have all the answers, but I got some really good questions as a paradox. An anomaly is an answer to a question. You haven't asked yet, and you're really good at chasing these your genes at this stuff guy. You're really mazing so tell us about your latest paper and how this ties it to nine eleven. Well, I really excited because yesterday I was able to show that my work is accurate to within one degree of latitude longitude. Tells about tapering what would you discover? I discovered that three in sites, and they are. Con it Mexico City, the great term in there and the two minute of. T O, G, goo Bolivia, which is really close to lake Kaka and a third unnamed site, which I discovered, we've Google. Looking down from a dust. I've found ruin these three sites point originally mind like the great pyramids today to the North Pole and win the coast of the earth mood. Of course. The alignments were thrown up. The alignments they over Baffin island Canada and I'm able to show that just yesterday with a different data set. A completely different data sets that this scientists estimated location is accurate than one degrees latitude longitude and you don't want the used it is. So be the beauty of it is the elegance simplicity of it. He is simply let me tell you the fact that I haven't shared with yet one of my friends, I went to high school. This was a real athletic guy. And he was interested notion artery to like I was back in the early seventies any wet with the Bedford of student, which all mass visits in Boston. Op Tabatha Nyland, and they exumed the tasks of ancient mastodons that were six times, more massive than largest African Bolelli with tusks, I think twenty four to thirty feet long. And the fairly found them, some of them frozen in the permafrost where you had judge in their mouth like food in their mouth that were frozen solid, which means, like, dropping the entire animal that large into a giant VAT of liquid nitrogen. So there was a tropospheric conversion energy, froze them like the movie the day after tomorrow instantly liquid talking with topping temperature to minus almost two hundred below zero. Like liquid nitrogen temperatures. So what we have to understand is the world is a lot different than what people think, and there's been. Cataclysmic cycles in the past of this of this planet that have collapsed. The population seventy five thousand years ago, it was a giant volcano in Tumba, and that one destroyed the population. It was currently living in North America until ahead to recall, nice by people crossing the land bridge formation. In North America around fifteen to twenty thousand years ago by natives, eventually went down all the spine of central America, South America. But in fact, the population diverse was reduced to matter a couple thousand seventy five thousand years ago, was a major explosion in Tomba, MBA, now, there's also been crystals types when they pulled Vaga traumas across the bottom of the ocean floor looking for you boats after World War Two, they discover there was zebra pattern of the flux of the magnetic field. Was it frozen rocks coming up the inter oceanic cleft, and those rocks are called ringwood? I if you could actually determine the change of the direction the magnetic field of the earth by seating direction change in rocked into the rocks itself experts like I have an expert I'm going to bring on a program. Northwestern university. That's research ring were light, and all of the volcanoes and all the. All the earthquakes driven by nascent water released from rock deep in the earth, and water lowers the melting point of, of rock turn into magma. So all the MAG ears, and all of Cannock activity of the mantle is Jim by nation water. Coming out of ringwood, I, there's an interesting now ringwood I'd is released when there's a pulse of magnetic field and plasma from the sun. And when that hits it releases Mason, water and drives super volcanoes, earthquakes, and all of the planet. It also causes thing called lists Feerick disjunction where the cross move so in the early nineteen sixties they were doing advanced research, nuclear technology including what's called torsion field. Gravitons imaging called torsion field imaging, so they could identify like say rushing, submarines under the bottom of the ocean. And they mapped out not only the underground volcanoes all over the years. But this God's pockmarks they realize what it wasn't. I these are. Volcanic, magma domes anywhere from four to twelve miles size all over the earth that don't have any hotspot feeding them anymore. So either thousands or even millions of years ago, these formed and across moves the no longer fit their, the actual ideal place that are being built for underground cities called dumbs all of the world, not just here, but China and elsewhere, the second most popular called matrix cities, whether you're greeted tunnel and John Falah and Phil Snyder. We're telling the sodium cooled nuclear reactor zero degree debris tunnel and put a Tri radiate track. And then putting fiberoptic cables in the ceiling and vacuum it out. So the high speed MagLev trains, could travel up to two point two undergrad who've basically vacuum tunnels, there'll liver. Question, eight magma chambers evacuated, like just inside so that humans could actually get in there and use. Yes, they are. They've been already drained. So basically, some of them are thousands even millions of years old, and they happen, whenever the crystals. For example, right now, you can actually see it happening because as part of the crust is near Hawaiian islands and hotspot feeding the Hawaiian island actually moved off shore. So another building a new island, people know this off the coast of Hawaiian island, which is the largest chain that actual hotspots moves. So the crust is actually moved to the point now where it's feeding area off the coast of Hawaii island, and the and the kilowatt volcano, and so on. So what we're saying is physical structure. We're seeing also moves where Visser via sin Italy is about to blow, again, the volcanoes in crustal slips are carrying Indonesia, so activity all over the world is increasing, but the thing that triggers, according to scientists, and I'm going to get him on the show called Ben Davidson and other experts, they think it's triggered by solar activity. And when the sun has the CME crow mass objection you don't just have. Light. You plasma particles and gravitons particles call his bows on particles. And when they hit the ring, they released nascent water releases super volcanoes, earthquakes and induces across full slip each time. It happens. There's usually somewhere between twelve and sixteen hundred miles of slip of the crust on the mantle, and because Ives classified information. I have I have intuitive over a period of years ago, a number of visions that the crustal slip of yours is going to North America. Elsewhere, twelve hundred miles over two months, which is the speed of a senior walking with a Walker one point two miles an hour, over two months. And at that point, the equator would pass Vanna, Q, not northern South America, and much of the United States be subtropical or tropical, and much of the far east, including Asia would move into the polar area and would be basically in the cold north. How's that? We have a cool reefs. That the. Eighty plus degrees. Same ancient maps of Antarctica and article was on pole. Right. I want to get you back on this week. Gotta get you back on next week. I have time on Tuesday for you at one o'clock Pacific. Let's get you on one o'clock Tuesday.

Neutra medical dot com cancer Dr Bill US Neutra Dr Phil Diggle Amazon World Trade Center Linus Pauling John Hughes Dr Bill eagles George Bush Turkey Kenya
Friday, February 22, 2019

Up First

13:34 min | 2 years ago

Friday, February 22, 2019

"Even the apparent winner of tainted congressional race. Now admits I believe in you election should be called the state agrees and residents of North Carolina's ninth district will vote again, what could a legitimate count reveal that. Steve inskeep. I'm David green. And this is up. I from NPR news. Chicago police offered some of the evidence that an actor staged an attack on himself this publicity stunt was a starter. Chicago didn't certainly didn't deserve. Why would Jesse Sma let higher two men to put a rope around his neck, and why would he pay by check also a summit at the Vatican forces Catholic leaders to face victims of sexual abuse. Pope Francis promises changes, but how much can he change the church? Stay with us. We'll guide you through. The stays news. Support for this NPR podcast and the following message. Come from twenty three and me explore your DNA story with over one hundred twenty five reports like caffeine consumption by twenty three in me health, plus ancestry kid at twenty three and me dot com slash up. I support also comes from American Express you want to build your business. They can help you build your business with financing solutions for eligible business customers the powerful backing of American Express don't do business without it. Terms apply. Visit American Express dot com slash business. North Carolina's board of elections has heard enough yet days of testimony persuaded the board that a congressional election with tainted witnesses described how a political operative mishandled absentee ballots. The operative was working for Republican candidate Mark Harris, even his own son offered damaging testimony before Harris given. To me that the public's confidence in the ninth district seat. General election has been undermined to extent that in new election is warranted. NPR's miles parks has been covering the story all along either miles. Hi, Steve what made it clear to Mark Harris that his apparent wind by nine hundred five votes was just not going to stand. So this really came down to the viability of Mark Harris's version of events for months since the election. He said he knew nothing about the absentee ballots scheme that investigators have been laying out which was performed by a man named McRae. Dallas in the eastern part of the night district. Mark Harris said he knew nothing about that. And that he was not warned about Dallas's potentially illegal tactics. But that has been losing steam all week long. We heard testimony on Wednesday, which was really key from actually Mark Harris, his son, John Harris, who's an assistant US attorney in North Carolina. John said, he he warned his father specifically about Dallas. Tactics. Here's a clip. They say in this process, and it certainly today's differently than I would have done him. And isn't there evidence to warn them? There was emailed evidence as well as verbal warnings. There were especially there was one especially damning Email in there where he sent an Email with the North Carolina statute that laid out it how it was a legal to collect ballots, which is what McRae Dallas is accused of doing. What Mark Harris says is that he just didn't heed his sons warnings his sons was based in DC at the time. He had never been to blame county. And Mark Harris says each he just chalked it up to youth that he believed MacRae Dallas denials that he was collecting ballots over his sons warning which were based on this data analysis that he'd been doing on election results from previous elections in blatant county. Okay. So we have this finding of bogus activity in the election of ERI close election. It will be re run is Mark Harris. The guy who's campaign was guilty of this behavior is he allowed to run again. He is allowed to run again. The question at this point is whether he will run again, we know that in North Carolina. It's required in not only hold a new general election at this point. But also a new primary process. So it's really unclear whether more cares is going to be able to gather that Republican support in the state after he has all of this baggage from this week long hearing, whether he's going to be able to gather support from Republicans in and take on democrat, Dan McCreary again in the general election. It's still really unclear he hasn't even said that he is going to run yet. I suppose there's also the question is to whether this will become one more democratic seat at the end of this two thousand eighteen election in which a lot of Democrats won seats in the house of representatives or whether Republicans would hold it. How Republican had this been up to now it had been very Republican in recent years, but Democrats are definitely excited about the possibility have having another shot, obviously. The whole fact that we're here at all is based on the fact that this was a very close election in two thousand eighteen and since Dan Macree, the democrat who was running against Mark Harris since he rescinded his concession after the after election day, he has raised a lot of money in the in the in the weeks and months following that. So Democrats are expecting they've also made election security, a huge campaign point looking twenty twenty you connect that with the fact that mccrae's been able to fundraise Democrats are really excited about this possibility miles. Thanks very much. Thank you. That's NPR's, miles parks. Police in Chicago have offered some of the evidence that a hate crime was faked. We're talking about the alleged attack on Jesse small lead an actor in a series empire. Police superintendent Eddie Johnson says the attack the racial slurs. Even the rope around mullets neck were false this stunt was orchestrated by smollet because he was dissatisfied with his salary. So he can cock the story about being attacked now. Police and prosecutors say smollet paid the attackers by check although the actor is still maintaining his innocence. We're joined now by Peres shots correspondent for Chicago tonight on W T W, Chicago public media. Good morning. Good morning. Thanks for having me. What information stood out for you? As as police and prosecutors laid out their case, just the the specific detail that Cook County prosecutors had on this all the evidence that they had compiled text messages interviews with witnesses in the outline their case yesterday court where we're small let allegedly sent a text message to his friend Abell Darrow who is an extra an extra on empire. The text reads, quote might need your help on the low you around to meet up and talk face to face. This point smell at Johnson mentions air the open is is upset that a threatening letter that police say he sent him. Himself. Although it hasn't been proven yet was not getting the attention. He wanted to to receive. So he talks to bell Abell into deuces him to his brother Ola going as if he can trust him. And then he hatches this alleged plan with him. And then of course, we have the check as well at the end of that I wanna play police superintendent Eddie Johnson, again, let's listen to put the national spotlight on Chicago for something that is both egregious and untrue is simply shameful people in Chicago, do not seem happy to be associated with this, including the police superintendent as you can hear in his voice there in the mayor of Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel issued a long statement condemning what happened and making sure that everybody knows Chicago is a place of tolerance. There are a lot of people that have signs in their homes at say hate has no home here and Emmanuel to drive home. The fact that people here really mean that and Eddie Johnson reserves that kind of motion for particularly heinous crimes that he that. Happened that he comes in and talks about says, you have to wonder what's going through this man's mind in Chicago as people around the nation. No the homicide rate is really high and more than eighty percent of those murders. Go unsolved juxtapose that with this case where twenty four detectives were working on it from the beginning so much media attention on it, and it charges were brought relatively quickly in this. So there's frustration that that crimes there was. There was a the murder of a one year old recently in they have no leads on that. But this one got solved right away. Parachutes. Thanks very much. Thank you. He is with Chicago tonight on W, T W, Chicago public media and joins us via Skype. At the request of pope Francis. Bishops gathered in Rome to address sex abuse in the Catholic church. This four-day summit began on Thursday with a victim from Africa, offering extrordinary testimony detailing how she had been raped by her priest leading her to have three abortions over a dozen years. An influential cardinal from the Philippines Lewis on Tonio Tugay acknowledged the church's responsibility. In the abuse, we humbly and Soro fully admit that wounds have been inflicted by us bishops on the victims. And in fact, the entire body of Christ NPR salvia Jolyon in Rome covering the summit. Hi, sylvia. Hi, steve. What's the goal of this gathering? You know, keep in mind that in the past the Catholic church treated clerical sex abuse as an issue of thin and forgiveness. Now it's being pressed to treated as a crime that requires punishment. And the pope wants that every Bishop. Here leaving Rome. Knowing exactly what he has to do in cases of priests abusing children in terms of responsibility, accountability and transparency he wants them to understand that abuse is not a first world problem, but a global phenomenon and to press that point as you said there were these these videos of these traumatic testimonies of five anonymous Abusir Veivers one man accused church officials of having turned into murderers of the soul and the pope also handed Abba list of Twenty-one concrete proposals. Most of which have already been adopted in the US, but they're totally new for bishops in parts of the world where they played down or even denied that they have a clerical sex abuse problem. Well, it's interesting Soviet since this is a hierarchical organization word comes down from the pope normally that in this case, you have word coming up from victims because victims are at this gathering. What are you hearing from them? They're here in droves. And they're planning a big rally tomorrow. There's a great deal of anger exam. Spiratou with the pope here is Denise Buchanan Jamaican woman, who's the co founder of the group ending clergy abuse when you consider that in the United States at thirteenth amendment was an end to slavery. Yes. There are problems. But that's law made the difference. Why can't you do the same thing here that locking end any abuse of children? It can end now. Now, the proposals to the bishops were very concrete, but they fell short of victims groups prime demand that it become universal church law that abuser priests and the bishops who cover up for them will be automatically dismissed from the clergy. In other words, zero tolerance up to now. The Vatican has always justified the absence of universal rules by saying that clergy could be unfairly persecuted in our -tarian states where Catholics are threaten minority and yesterday the Vatican's top sex crimes investigator archbishop Charles chic. Luna stressed that. Dismissal decisions should be taken on a case. Case basis, which sounds fair. But you can certainly understand people who would not trust the church to make that case by case decision as their reason to think that meaningful reform is on the way depends on what part of the world. We're talking about churches that have already been battered by scandals have adopted. Strict guidelines may parts of the world and cultures are nowhere near that one of the summit. Organizers father hunt Zoellner pointed out that in many languages, including Italian the working language at the Vatican. Does not have the equivalent word for count ability, which he says means there hasn't been much reflection in these cultures. So probably some basic rules will be adopted, but you need to change the mindset, and that's going to take a long time, Sylvia. Thanks for your insights. Thank you. Stay. That's NPR's, Sylvia. Pohjola. I for this Friday February twenty-second, I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm David Greene. Producer is Jacob Pinter. Editors are Steve Mullis and William Jones directors are actually western and Lindsey toddy. Can you young second? I and we hope you start your day back with us right here on Monday. And since the news, certainly does not stop when podcast is over. You can follow us on Twitter anytime, we are at up first, we'll give you daily round up with the most important stories of the day up. I hear each morning because of your NPR station, your financial support lets us do more things like this show. Support your NPR station now at donate that NPR dot org and start to weekend with NPR's weekend addition, which you will find on your station. Oskar season. And we don't want you to show up on the red carpet on prepared. That's why pop culture happy hour is here to help you sort through the nominees and separate the best from the rest. Listen now, and we might even help you dominate your Oscars pool.

Chicago Mark Harris North Carolina NPR NPR Steve inskeep Democrats NPR Eddie Johnson Dallas Jesse Sma Rome Steve superintendent sylvia David green Pope Francis murder John Harris caffeine
Fotografer - Kim K Sorensen


28:52 min | 9 months ago

Fotografer - Kim K Sorensen

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Living la Vida Georgia. Programa 1

Podcast RadioViajera

48:27 min | 1 year ago

Living la Vida Georgia. Programa 1

"It you're looking to me steps in your email list of community. Did you so give me well. You must be afraid of Manila's because they'd leaving the field clear but gus get the quincy statistically little places than cocoa so little I mean did they even have this lady f Pisces Another's Leila's mythos Leonidas comparison just at the dustbin when the Mafia n-i-l-l-a-s Demi News your those eighties to race and if you remember the also take uncared as literacy though this the Athen was those nosy cathedral this deficit and yet the owners be enough. Just I'll just career ended up prevented. Also that could not exe good look at the the theory was clearly directly enough. Thank you get hidden. Doors couldn't booker that Eskimo putting him my innocence theaters. They'd go yes in in body gray. Lock your yet gasping. Those details give her unsolicited wasting but also could get impress. Discussing Mafia must put a domino theory was the liberal outdoor diskin throughout your Clementino at the number. We look at a letter lay studio studio. Hannity went off. Your list is above the could be the ETA speak does need reliable Thurston the Glen Glenn Wheelers Gallipoli. We wanted him. I give him as this love won't be Thin Sacramento Casino. She knew what they would win again. Got Even see then he must have good resources without leaving young. Does that have been dealing Goldie. Get the author of the dollar swooped. The thing is to Donald Cycle leaving. Here's love of Moore's legal their heels here. Is the London dock your this is so funny because this Theroux or this bill osceola. Pasco see definitely okay fuel. He says the personal this theme against the Inca those lady that aimless a in the final day both into US update gramma in but simply associated with this see there. Was this deport. 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Magic Maker: An Interview with Designer Zaldy Goco

Dressed: The History of Fashion

46:36 min | 2 months ago

Magic Maker: An Interview with Designer Zaldy Goco

"Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more. is that shakespeare. No it's geico i here. Yeah that's shakespeare from one of his published works be not for awakening and may give it though the batteries for fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more no. It's from geico. 'cause they help save people money i hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare gyco fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. I'm alec baldwin. Listen to my podcast. Here's the thing on iheartradio. It's my chance to talk with artists policy makers and performers. I always like to say. I like being an actress but i love being kristen. So i've prioritize that a little bit more than my like desire to spread my wings or prove to people that i can be some dramatic actress listening as much as i liked talking with interesting people. Go to here's the thing dot. Org and subscribe now on the iheart app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Just the history of fashion as they production of iheartradio seven billion people in the world. We all have one thing in common every day. We all get dressed. Welcome to dressed the history of fashion. A podcast where. We explore the who. What when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and hosts abra callahan and cassidy zachary and dress listeners. We are back. Welcome to season for of dressed. Can you believe at april four seasons of this podcast time flies. More than two hundred and twenty episodes produce. Wow well thank you dress listeners. For joining us on this journey and we are excited to bring you. What is sure to be a very fun season for so fucking back and april. A lot has happened since we last talked to are dressed audience just over one month ago and i don't know about our listeners but i am so looking forward to today's episode. A much needed respite from the twenty four hours new cycle. I cannot agree with you more and because of that. We promise that today's guest is going to deliver that perfect merger fantasy and fashion because today we are joined by the one the only salty known professionally by his first name. Zoology saudi is an emmy award winning costume and fashion. Designer perhaps best known for his twenty seven plus year relationship with group. Paul but that is actually just one of the many aspects of the designers prolific career from an early career and modeling and then transitioning into the world of side. Salty is now a world renowned talent having designed for everyone from lady gaga britney spears to cirque du soleil and we are so excited to learn all about his history process and inspiration. Saudi welcome to address. It is such a pleasure to have you here today. We are so excited to have you join us. Thanks custody april welcome. Welcome i think. April joins me to say we're excited to have you here with us today. It's kind of a bit of an understatement. We're both huge fans of your work and what you've done and we dive into your incredible career trajectory. We would love to hear a little bit more about what started at all for you. For instance do you have like an earliest memory of when you realize the transformative power of clothing. I definitely from like my youngest ages like whether it was like clothing it was definitely fabric and from the Even the times like a a infants. I remember having this very soft blankets in the blanket was cape. it was my cloak. It was like my ten. It was like a gown. It was so many things to me. I realized how like the office that fabric against my skin with that piece of fabric maybe feel like or who has made me like i could be Whether it was like a superhero or you know like some kind of wrapped grecian. Something i don't know. I was aware of the transformative power of the fabric. You know somehow sort of led me down. That road had a lot of freedom in how i dress myself. As the kid. I was able to make choices that going back to fabric. I remember a time. Like seven. And i had cited like pull all of the sheets of in closet that olympic liked and i told them all and start like draping gowns on myself and thinking. You know like how amazing this square has become so used to do little runway. I didn't know what the hell i was doing. I was planning such a kid. But you know little worrisome for the parents you know lay whether it was just getting sheets dirty or whether it was a red flag you not encouraged. But i definitely felt it. You know it's like it's the same thing. I do fabric from a body and i'm like oh this looks like a this type of you know like we can do this visits. It's really like the earliest connection house. A better visual. It's really my own experience. Yeah and so as you've just expressed Very young age. You're able to look and see all the possibilities of fabric and clause. And i think i read somewhere that your grandmother had a really important role in in your relationship fashion as an early age to she definitely did more so in like just art in general because know back in those days you came philippines. She stayed for like three months. You know and so she always stayed in my bedroom. And i stayed on like a pullout bad so we kind of became lake. I was sort of like her best friend in a weird way this little kid but she was very artistic and she did have fashion school. I learned later in philippines among other things that she did. She taught me how to draw with pencils using like grid. She taught me to like hanes with melted. crayons Up just the idea of materials and what you can do with materials and how funday could be a real. I guess thinking outside of the coin box honestly and that exploration materials. You've continued further in the eighties and nineties. You studied at parsons in. La and also at f. f. i t. and new york we are all alums of of fit. Here i'm you know. I got the mid ninety did from that school i had a great time continuing at you know because after the of like regular college experience in la just was like. I just wanna get in education. I don't want to socialize. Wanted to you know it's wanted to do work and learn and get out. Of course you are also modeling at the same time right. No not i mean modeling really came out like sort of around the i mean. It's sort of like kinda hand in hand. I guess my first sort of real modeling job was with stephen myself for interview magazine and they were shooting like children of the night before there is even like formally like these are club kids. He was like my first photo. Shoot but it was really me just me. Which is a very undrawn. You know and i was always drowsiness or people thought it was a female. It was it was one way or the other. It was definitely more eminence. Especially when i was younger and but it really wasn't until i met matthew. Who was my boyfriend at the time and was together with him for like ten years but he was like a pretty famous makeup artist. Who only work like myself inclined to like major campaign like was big deal you end like he is the one who would you like test makeup on the and kind of like ring that part of me out and sort of the next step in that was suzanne bartsch who when she saw as parallels i had already been going out to clubs alone but when matthew gathering she's like oh you should be you know a twins when was like five feet five inches taller than me. Why any you know it was just like somehow we him like the duo and within that do i think is when the real fashion world song. They're like oh. Wow you should really be model you know. And it was like christine in a little bit. Because know i really studied as used like at school to become a something and i want to be a fashion designer but i really got pushed into model you know. And you model for terry mover you've modeled for vivienne westwood. I mean these are some pretty amazing. And it was eight like levi's camp that like ran for years and It was good. I really like that was one of those. Like ice won't be known for my talent. You know as as you are as an art student. I learned to accept how great insight that was into like fashion world. It was different vantage points and just had access to at least a major photo shoots with blake. Major editors sitting there and like art directors than the makeup artists hair. It was really incredible. So i'm so thankful that i did get. I think if actually all those things that people sort of like kind of cord push me into doing you know because in one way or the other they always come really beneficial part of my lights so it would appear that the nineteen nineties really laid the foundation for what would become this prolific career for yourself that you built for yourself in both costume and fashion design for the stage in the screen. You started your own label. I believe in two thousand and two you also designed for gwen. Stefani's label lamb. You did this show. stopping tour. Drove popstars from lady gaga britney spears multiple shows for cirque. So lay all the while you've been designing rupaul's drag looks for twenty seven years and counting. Is this mutually reinforcing relationship between fashion and costume design. Something you intended or did it. Kind of naturally evolved with your interest in. The opportunities received like a lot of things few decades ago a couple of decades ago. People really liked you to choose like a box. You know like. I am of this you know like and if you are fashion designer what are you doing. Wasting time dressing popstars. You're not serious. Designer ends them some. I fell into it a little bit. You just can't it because you have people are smart people around you encouraging and telling you either experience. What your experiences. But everything is and it's like a different paces than so it's like you know it's like i really started making clothes for popstars making clothes for lady ms cure you know in my early days and then rupaul and all these so i think i had in my mind like a real distinction of lake. There's fashion which was what i set out to do. And then there was costume design and it was like you kind of didn't mix the two but the more and more the i would do fashion the more and more sort of hostage design the world's kept pulling me in and i couldn't say no it was too interesting like you can't say no to gwen stefani like if you went to the line of clothing with me okay. You know you can't say no to doing michael jackson's final tour or like i had apprehension about doing cirque du soleil because i i guess i didn't really know it. I really wasn't paying attention to it so much. I knew what it was. But i hadn't been to show since like oh and i loved it but i felt like it was gonna take me away from something but it really just led me into another part of my life that would really become like at this point more dominant part for now. You never want to put that. Limits of this is who i am now but forever. It is who i am now. It's like i definitely love costume design. And like i think it's because it's like the line is so much fuzzier now like you know whether a costume designer stylist designer fashion designer of. It's like it's really all like it. The creative process and like people are more accepting to like understand the as one thing really you know so i love it. I'm like. I'm so happy that i also got swept into custody. Design communities like a different community. Love it you know. It's like all the people. I've met a whole different world than the fashion world and yet same. I'm such a huge fan of cirque du soleil and you've done i think three shows with them. Now can you tell us a little bit about designing for volta to me. It's compared to the other projects that you've done and you have such incredible resume to me. Cirque du soleil seems like it would be its own entity in that they're defying human capabilities. Basically and what they do and then. The costumes are such an integral part of that story. In the end it really becomes in ultimate combination of expression of leg language. I seek a fashion and costume and music come together. I definitely Because my first shows were about. They're both michael jackson themes and maple with so much concentrated his image about fashion. Like i definitely wanted everyone to sort of like connect with the people on stage and in a way that sort of more relatable as allegro. I love this image of these outfits. I want to be this character. You know like. I wanted to feel inspired uncomfortable with the help on stage so much so that they can envision themselves as part of it you know and i think every show. I did that in both. I went even further because there was like a struggle in these People's now because there's no music or languages in different words like there is. There is a narrative going on there was more Kind of like defining the different parts of yourself in the sort of like finding your freedom at the end of it and it's sort of like defined in three different types of families of Sort of like elites and play your everyday city people go about their lives and the people who live off lands on the free spirit so three distinct type characters that kind of needed to tell the story through the colors and textures attitudes That they had so dead like at any time. If any of those people are on stage together he was clearly know different families on stage at the same time so i worked really hard to like make great distinctions of lake where elites like the only time we ever see metallic are on is in italy's world so anything that's shiny in hard. Is there in this sort of like everyday world. It's like you know an expiration of gray. Everything is shades of gray. But it's beauty. The constantly go is very fashionable. It's very like cd ends very like tailored in the in the freeze. Its like i might push was making things Off of the land so like a lot of the outfits are patterned off of like backpacks like any packs. And you know anoraks in light comedy items. That might be discarded. You might find secondhand that they all get to be put together With les seen or crocheting or shredding up the fabric relieving it into like tops for the free spirited. The i only wanted things that they could possibly have made themselves with their own hands. You know so it was. It was a great sort of leg project to explore. Define m and i wish it was still running. You know right now. Meeting with it was doing amazing and getting better every time every time i saw Proving on the show but who knows who knows what happens hopefully this year. There's something happens. You know. Absolutely i have to say i come from film and tv too costumes but i started in theater and there is nothing quite like when you worked so hard on your costumes and your teams worked so hard and then you actually get to see it happen right in front of your eyes. I mean it's just the most incredible feeling it is and it's like you're yes the moment you really lead up to whether it's like you're designing the tour you know it's like finally the dress rehearsal has come like looking at everybody everybody's you know contribution working together onstage. The first time in it's exciting it's exciting. A nerve wracking stressful. But it's really yogi mostly moseley. You're so excited. I'm mean moving and you can get to the next level cast this new year. I finally decided to do it. Yes i'm going to make a lasting change in my life and restart that keno diet that. I've loved in the past if i'm doing it. I'm doing it right. And that's why i've already installed kudo cycle the best app to stay committed to kito diet so whether you want to lose weight or simply improve your habits. Kito cycle makes it possible because kito cycle offers a healthy eating guide with easy to cook recipes. Meal plans grocery lists and even tips from nutritionists. Plus they have workouts motivation and a cool tracking feature to keep yourself in check and listen address listeners. You can take advantage of our deal. Going to kito cycle dot diet slash dressed for eighty five percents off. Your annual subscription chai qudos cycle with me. This year go to kyoto cycle dot diet slash dressed fillon the quiz and received personalized meal. Plants use the code dress for eighty five percent off your annual subscription. You'll have it instantly on the kito cycle app. Do it all today. At kyoto cycle dot diet slash dressed to show how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera. Star gracious me. My car has storm. Damage had to file a claim. Could it possibly get worse when my claims team leave me for someone else. Someone less intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team promises to stay with you. Throughout the process hunt never known such loyalty. I can't wait for the second season. Geigo great service without all the drama. You are working with britney or lady gaga or you know some of these are massive like tours that you're designing. Where do you start like uninsured each individual project kind of like dictate certain aspects of that. But i'm just hoping you can tell us a little bit about the design process for some of these some for some of these larger tours or like you get a call from agents or Their agent or other people. Whatever a immediately like. Oh my god. What's going to be you know like maybe you've heard a song from the album but you don't even know album if you don't know what it is. You get ideas in your head already of just ideas in general but then what normally happens is. There's like a creative deck that comes away from the towards designer or director and this could be have gotten to creative Leg one hundred. Seventy eight pages. And i've been at like here's the thought of the piano on the stage with the light you know it's like you know what we're doing it all different things but you know you're part of A big vision. That is all in support of the one acts and You know like you. Just hope that you're focused and what you can contribute to that deck harmonizes with everybody else in like we all celebrate together and everything just works together for this incredible moments. But you know it's like. I said we're working with incredibly talented people's set designers out sound people's alive in people. The you know it's like it. It's a huge huge production Of people really have to come together and really. it's like only true vision is amused. And that is your artist. You know and that's the person who gets you through. You know like you. Listen to music nonstop. listen to you. Know if it's available. This should run of the show. You can actually start to visualize what these where the moments of high moments with Now the calmer moments are the ballads and like you can start to find a rhythm of flake how you want to reveal character and still be exciting ends of the earth and how collaborative are some of the artists that you also work with in what they wear on stage. I mean every luckily everybody that i work with has really strong identity and very strong point of view and also really good idea of their cells. You know like who they are to themselves and who they are to their fans so very nick normally very involved you know like i can't think of anyone who's doesn't have an opinion of what they they like to see. You know but i. I mean that in less than a tour situation where we're like every single second we need to think about real. It's just a jump back into that. It's like you know we have such an easy report that you know no matter how big our work is and how much we do it's It's only like a understanding in stride that we re take those projects goodness and you guys have been working with each other for two plus decades. Now in oddest thing. It's like you know we're working together more than ever. You know like who would actually thought that you know. I mean i think we definitely doing like six version Shows this year alone. You know third leg. It's a lot not surprised but Only so happy to see this lake at reus influence and outlook being spread into the walls. The hostages force like i've always Spiritual powerful bean. Who lena has something to show something to say. You know how. I've only seen room before we even start working together at i meet in a nightclub. You know as as a lot of these relationships in new york happen. It's just in the nightclub scene. And i remember i normally don't introduce myself. People are walkouts people but member. I couldn't resist walking up debris and just saying like. Oh my god you know high. You know like i saw you last night. You know you look so amazing but Outfit you know as you are right now. Amazing and i wasn't thinking of it as being kinda shaded or anything but it was just how unlike i've said many times ruth zad when it works it works. It is something that i've always remembered. Oh you can wear something three times for. It doesn't matter and i love how that's happened. In recent years like on red carpets and people like with my ten year olds a juror bias. Address wearing it again. You know like. I love that idea of recycling quotes. Well we have a big sustainability platform on on the show. We talk about it. So yeah yeah. I mean like definitely loves to pull from the archive and surprise me at like i'm gonna wear this at. It's like from one thousand nine hundred ninety two nine ninety. Whatever it's always fun select Crews mind works with Her archive of her own image. And the you know formulating the future of the end the current image that she has now and i know that you. I think designed wanna rupaul's like the cover of the supermodel of the world album which was a lot of people credit with launching rupaul's career. How did your relationship. How did you start working together. Well it happened actually with the through. susanne bartsch again. We were all on this tour. In 'em japan of like these nightclubs like in three different cities travel. Macaroni and other people like joey areas Andrew and we'd all. I'm not a performer. But i would be. They're kind of like a look as host a member in in one city 'em ruses was like. Oh i think my record deal is actually going to happen. And i'm going to need some guys wanna like work on my image with me like image design that was like i didn't really necessary again even back but it was we stood. Yes you know so just started. They're very casually again like at a nightclub asking who do it. And then it led to world wonder randy invented in grew also longer than me from the air and then we start talking about amc cover. The image of the album. Copper ends That there was imbued video shots time. You've seen this model video up. You know the freedom of filming in new york. Like i'll go jumping fountain in front of you know the author hotel just getting you no permits. It's like film until we feel you know it's like to love that freed up. That was amazing. I love it so surprising. Like the moments like. I love all the moments ever through have always been incredible Like as she's turned out to be one of my most amazing muses ever. Had you designed every single outfit. That rupaul has worn on repose drag race. Can you tell us a bit about that creative process and how you continually find inspiration. I've read in multiple interviews. That not only does repel give you complete artistic license with your designs for her. You also conduct zero fittings because you have worked together so many times for so long. I mean it's true it's like we don't have fittings. we've really never had fittings For drag race ever. Until maybe like really i mean councilman one hands but it is. It's like when you know somebody's audie and like not only when you know their body when you create a body it's phone and boney it's it's a stuffed body you know i think you really know the dimensions and the proportions of that body and you know what length address is going to be wearing which he'll or whether you're sending the shoe or not it's like you know we've learned so much end gains that much trust with each other as well. You know. it's it's like. I have it with a few of my clients where i just you know. They don't necessarily need to see sketch. Don't need to see whatever just like knowing going to rondebosch wherever i'm going to the mat gala account. It's very rare rare rare special kind of relationship in you know but we do talk about it. You know we talk about you know. Do we want to show more legs these this year do we want. Where do we wanna go. You know but there is so much freedom and a lot of that freedom against to be explored in my studio with my since. And you know it's like we say it's like our favorite of project they love doing room. You can almost do anything. You can possibly imagine within a timeframe. And i think i read that you start with textiles like you you talked about how. How formative textiles were in your relationship to fashion and costume design. And then i think i've read in a couple of different interviews that you really start with the fabric as your inspiration for a lot of these designs and absolutely and it goes back to my blankets. It's just like the brick end. The fabric is transformative yonex I learned this at a glorious. Fit in a drake class. Where it's like you know. Force your fabric to do what you want to do. You have to listen and see what the fabric doesn't wanna drake over there. It's like you have to work with you know like once you're sure of how your fabric works. It's like in the possibilities. A new set of those parameters you you know it starts to help define what you what. This dress is. Be the end up on paper Or could just end up on her in the head and start coming out in style. Tape ends in africa that directly onto the form but yet it is the fabrications that really dictate the design having very sometimes it is designed where mike. This is what i need. You know whether it's led lights. But normally i started famvir. You've mentioned earlier. You've referenced re things from the archive and I actually worked as a curator at fit. So i'm in my own collection of he's new against you. Yes guys were still operating remotely right now but you have a standing invitation to chemicals it definitely so that that that makes me wonder like where are all these clothes and Keep most of the staff. Does it just like most or aunt everything everything in very well you know in my heart. Happy exactly very oh and fresh so that you know like twenty years later know in poll spandex stand at crass with glue glitter on it and where it now and it still. Where all you know. It's like a it is important that an i lou knew the importance of this archive. You know and you know. As as i was like reu you wanna wear. This dress is like how many more opportunities gonna have to wear this dress. Is i want to wear this dress again. you know. That's that's how true is this a little bit of insight into it's like what am i going to be a worth. That's amazing good afternoon. Would you like to try a free. Sample of our double fudge brownie oh sure womb mesh very good. I'll just take one more just to be sure yup still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico. saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance Macadamia nut i taste. Take one more sir. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. Is that shakespeare. It's geico that shakespeare from one of his unpublished works to be not for awakening. Nee give it. Though the berries for fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more no. It's from gyco 'cause they help save people money. Well i hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare gyco fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more. Ruth told vogue in two thousand eighteen. That i would not go anywhere without salty since supermodel. Our communication has gone from shorthand telepathic. I mean you both have such a wonderful bond. And that was also exhibited. Your work in collaboration was exhibited and what i loved. Aj in the queen was such a good show. And i'm so disappointed. It's not renewed. Can you talk a little bit about that process and designing for for that. tv show. Because i thought that was such an incredible story. Thank you thank you thank you. I think Yes a lot of people wish it could have gone to. I can season to explore more But it was really one of my favorite experiences with withdrew and also in costume. Design really was my first costume. Television would unresolved drama. I mean it was show. It was like my first experience. And you know Work with incredible. Tracy feels a costume designer and You know she did everybody. I did grew and all forms counts. And every i mean like the idea of trying to lake separate ru at you know because i wanted to. She's so famous. You know but separate ru is like we'll hairdo and with hair color. Make her another personality and a for me it did and you know i really like tried very Not hard but i. I was very aware of making distinctions between Drag race consumes in costumes ruby. You know lakewood Wouldn't put group hall. You know in Metallic pink fringed chaps on a drag race but it certainly made sense you know in asia and the queen but i just loved it so much because it was so lush and designing for a different type of a scripted show with lighting crew. And i mean so beautiful like i love you know like in drag race. I mean you know the lighting is just like a beacon light will soft blur where all the colors. The beautiful bed in you know. It was shot so on on film i. i can't remember but it was not so beautifully a Textures all sparked everything. You could see everything ends I was happy to see every single bits of the costume. Because we really have the time and have a great budgets and the great teamwork with directors and with a tracy and with everybody and abusir production lake really create something special that felt very different than ru ends up that challenge and i hope we get to do it again. I hope you do too. Because that's so good and the purple chandelier dress was one of my absolute favorite naked. Thank you and like the the making of that stress. It was lake. It was intense like it took a lot to make this like again. But like i said at the time that we don't get necessarily ensue. Every outfit of drag race We it was amazing. A great experience ab uplifting was a great time long our burs rewarding on the less. Even though we didn't get seasons well. I love how you point out like you know. Obviously how you style. Rude differently than the character ruby. And that kind of brings up the point. You know you have been in drag seen since the nineteen eighties. What changes have you seen in that time. I mean it's it's funny. How they're you know. Sometimes you see changes Funding how you're like all the same in contours. Same bob la is there's more availability of imagery of the idea of perfection of the tools and respects. You know like just the more people that with the more creative voices canal and get to share their art with everybody the more knowledge everybody gets you know. It's like back when i was doing drag. It's like oh my god. There's a store it's like you go to miami like america this week stores. It's like exciting Now it's like when can pretty much giveaways league they can get a chest. Plate can get you have. Major tools are available to them and and also like teachers and guides. You know like thirteen seasons of rupaul have might and created a global community that there's like a lot of support thank fun competition. I feel like it's more fun in a way you know less lake All competition feeling. It's definitely more in the spirit. Fear of i think that's i think the difference i see but it's perfection. I mean everyone is so amazing. You know like i mean you. Just look at them like they're superstars. You know all the people that passed that show a share and speaking of superstars and fun. We can't let you go without asking. If you have a favorite ensemble that you've designed for rupaul. Over the years. We certainly have our favorites. But i just wonder if there's any favorites that you have our most memorable. And then i also had a question if you decide the queen elizabeth dress for vogue and leave it shoot a half to now not do any leverage shoot. I wasn't in time and that was just like a last minute thing where you know Anne wanted that image. They just happened to be on the warner lots. That was ever able to gather. I would love to have been involved in that for sure. But i don do work with anne first time on the vanity fair upper and That's really wasn't that long ago. But it was thanks for on so many levels from an achievement level for ru and for the communities. See a black man superstar drag queen on the cover you know a vanity fair. You know like when i grew up. Vanity fair being regaining there was. I couldn't even imagine how famous you to be the cover of gaining fares though. Haven't that moment for ru and to share with everybody and working with anthony bowitz Who is legend and just knows how to deliver a note. Lake really deliver a concept image in alaska image. It's like be part of that. Was something amazing. Because you know like if it didn't even exist that day of the shoot it was like It was something else. And i had created an outfit with all these towns that were on a white outfit in any for. I don't think i'm gonna shoot. And i was like you've me lay three hours. Give me three hours. Nobody dared me and my team. We're gonna go in the back. And i'm gonna make this other outfit in like literally walk into stage as last Being put on the outfit and really turnouts if it became that cover outfit which covered with gold at this outfit just it was like a magic again. One of those magical moments that just happened in the moments and with all helmets are they are together anza a really one of my favorites just because of the experience and actually it's event view. Ever and of course ru has this sky high white wag and this beautiful skin toned bodysuit. Apparently your team put together in three hours. That's covered in diamonds. And it's just it's such such a a sunny image. Yes oh my god in curtis and raven who the hair makeup knew who won emmys refers emmys last year the show. It's like such an amazing job on the cover. It's like completely what we all wanted was an iconic image to like survive unless So we're curious. What's up next for salty. Do you have any upcoming projects that you could share with us. Hits about definitely we have our six shows that we're working on this year and there is certainly some rumblings from vegas twain but nobody's loose so everything's berry Maybe you know. I was working on this really big project in the uk We started right before lockdowns in march of last year. And you know. I'm hoping that we're hopeful that that is still up when we leave but then i guess there's some things i can't really talk about you know it's a whole new year and hopefully macos ackman's laying. We get alike returned to all the real work that we know we can do. Yeah well here's to stab twenty twenty one and everything that brings for all of this. Yes sir weights baldy. Thank you so much for being here with us today. This was such a tree. And i was so incredible to me. You and talk to you. Thank you you too thank you so much. Thank you so much. I had a really great time april. That was certainly a tree. And there's so much more about all these career that we did not even touch upon in april. I don't know if you knew this. But we talked about saudi working as a highly sought after runway model early in his career. But did you know that the mannequin company team created a salty mannequin. I did not know that. But i am hoping to later on the season. An entire episode on. Bruce stein mannequins. 'cause they're not sure Average mannequin and also we heard all day mentioned the levi's campaign that he was part of the nineteen ninety s. I think it was nineteen ninety-five we didn't delve into why this commercial was controversial and that is because he appeared in drag in this fiber one commercial leaves five a one and that was apparently so controversial at the time that the commercial was banned in the us. So this is clearly pre rupaul's drag race and that show has been really really instrumental in bringing drag front center. Pop culture and salty has had no small part in that transformation both literally and figuratively. He has had such a prolific career already and shows no of stopping anytime soon so salty. Thank you again for joining us today and we are very much looking for to falling your work well into the future. That does it for us. Today dresses nurse. May you consider adding a little question fantasy into your wardrobe next time. You get dressed. Remember to tune and this thursday for our very first fashion history of the season where we talk all things per your request frazier ten and we love hearing from you. So if you'd like to email us please do so at dressed. Iheartmedia dot com. You can also direct messages on instagram at dressed. Underscore podcast where you'll find images accompanying each weeks episode. You can also follow us on facebook at dress. Podcast without the underscore. And if you have a moment and wanna take time to rate merv. Us on your podcast listening platform of choice. We would appreciate your support and as always special thanks to producers. tc tcp holly fried. And everyone else that iheartradio who makes the show possible each and every week more dress thursday trust history. Fashion is production of iheartradio from our podcast. My heart radio is iheartradio apple podcasts. Or wherever else you listen to your favorite shows this year. I'm finally going to restart the kyodo diet. I've loved in the past but if i'm doing it i'm doing it right. And that's why. I've already installed kito cycle the best to stay committed to diet and lose weight. Easily and healthily hero psycho offers easy recipes. Meal plans grocery lists and tips from nutritionist plus workouts tracking feature to stay in check. So go to kita cycle dot diet slash dressed and use code for eighty five percent off the annual plan. You have to do it now. So visit kito cycle dot diet slash dress to get started. It's safe to say twenty twenty one of the most difficult years ever for so many. That's why i'm here to ask you. How can i help. My name is doctor gail saltz. I'm a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at newyork presbyterian hospital host of the new weekly podcast. How can i help with dr gail saltz brought to you by the senechal women podcast network and iheartradio. Join me every friday where you can ask your most pressing questions and i will answer with specific advice and understanding. Listen to how. Can i help with dr gail saltz on the iheartradio app on apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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El Mandilorian

Los Compas Lounge: a PSA for Brown Men

42:38 min | 4 months ago

El Mandilorian

"Off welcome to announce a pse for brown men we are your host. This is this year my name is relevant and this is a podcast about brown men talking about issues that matter to you we talk about things that we don't usually talk about in the brown communities. We're just three regular kompass sharing our experiences to inspire positive chains. Combine pool precede. We have one ready for you acorn paso. I'm really excited about this topic because we're gonna be talking about. What am i favored shows. The mandalorian meant meant mandalorian. Maybe oughta do. We're not talking about wars. The mind the loan monday long amount delorean off. I was prepping for monday mandalorian. That's the only why you know what i guess. That's the topic. That's something we could jump into guys. So how do you want to start off or starting monday lawn. Well i guess maybe ticket like word for word he could be translated to someone like a guy that wears a a neighboring an apron where mandela monday is against the the dude who doesn't wear the pants in the family then. Yeah so so working growing up here this monday long. It's very derogatory against the man right. Because they're talking about him being week doing exactly what the wife wants us to do. And you know it's very pervasive in our culture. Not even just make most. Uganda getting like the opposite of Much evil you know they say. Does the house chores listens to. His wife does it. has has to ask permission to go out and those are characteristics of body a little bit deeper. Psychologically speaking right we live in predominantly male culture society here in the us. And then it's very you know mexico latin america. It's very much. He's more at so in order to break donny. Mad essentially emasculating. Him right. so you're you're taking away his manliness or his manhood When you call them. I'm on lawn if you really think about it Sucks dude because you really breaking somebody down even though you're joking about it right. I mean it's like in all honesty. It's like each has got to call a friend. You just got to call a friend when you see him being monday law and you know it's like it's just part of our culture you know like the way you know. I think i think we've all been you know guilty as charged somewhere somewhere in our lifetime and you know and Like you were saying. Or i think you when you look into the deeper a bit. What exactly you're really trying to say you know to to the to the do that you'd is called out you know that that they're lesser than you you know or that they're not a quote unquote real man or like a like the governator once said you know Your girly man percents arnold schwarzenegger back. When he was the governor of california back in the days he literally said that man he was calling people out. And i guess. That's the version of monday lawn. You know like girly man. And i mean. We'll say like that happens a lot like when when you're in a circle of friends and somebody gets a chick and then after that duke got ask permission out and stuff like that you know we got you know. We got a bag on oven stuff. I know i know. I've been i've been. I've been guilty of being called on the law. Man i remember Many years ago when When i was dating who would be my first wife. I remember actually havi we we were. We went to a mutual friend's house and I don't. I don't think you know i didn't want a drink or something. Really how convenient recall. A friend had a party and so then after that he was saying that he was going to take his girlfriend. Like all right cool. You know we. I mean we was going to be the first thing that we met his girlfriend. So he shows up. And i got a ruben. Because i don't know before we didn't have that much money we never would bring the beer like we which we take a few extra beer so that this way. When they ran out of the beers we have a few extra eight ruben. I snuck you two beers here. You go like all happy and rubens. I figure out well for him going for his chick. Robens a really. Don't feel like drinking today and in my head what would it mean for like drinking. I never heard those words come out of his mouth ever feel like drinking. Today i was shocked. I was it was true. They'll do i was being monday. Learn about it. Because you know. Because i wanted like to portray different images of me and listen that i remember that through my head. I go like a monday. But i did wonder kalamata in front of his. His girlfriend was the first time i met her. And then and then. I remember another time. We were not to To accommodate club two drink minimum and this this fool ray was by non alcoholic because the same as like like to use like six dollars for a virgin cape cod or seven dollars with vodka. That he was told six full. His girlfriend went also. Yeah it before. They got married when he was trying to letter that he was somebody else you know. Hey you know what. That's that's what we go through that that we said that you're pretending to be like you're somebody else and you're you're kind of lying to yourself right because you want to impress your girlfriend your wife or whatever. It is but your friends knowing that all is the way. I don't know you're lying to yourself. You're lying to to your lady friend or or you would be girlfriend or whatever you know so i think that's i think that's even worse because you're building you're building something on a lie you do drink you know. So what the heck man know but but yeah man. I think that's i think that's a layer of of monday lewis. Monday low neasman. Just mandalorian is part is being a liar. Dude seen lion monday liar. Something that i that i was thinking about. Was we internalize it. Sometimes right because we might have like ha ha luxembourg joking and we're you know at least side and we're not drinking but it's like could incite fuck man. My hobby was ragging on me. And it kind of hurt. You know or like being. I'm going to get them back. You know i'm gonna wait until he gets his hina in. I'm gonna call. I'm a colleague. Bob and it's like a little funny psychos like now. This guy has a girlfriend money long. And i remember Like with my cousins is the famous tauruses vigo out man with my girl cousins and the guy cousins and the girl cousins Ma do they know like if i'm single whatever and they only app and she primoz crazy. He's you know. This is twenty thirty years ago. Whatever it was pretty and it's all of a sudden you walking awesome pizza instead girlfriend boom. You wanna shot nine on kuhlman by calling your and then you're butter reach for the shot and you feel the ladies you kind of get it but you don't you like shit so you have to kind of all right. I'll take why not take. Well i'll take you what do meaning but and then you remember. 'cause maybe have a conversation that who's that closing right there. Y'all craze later. Oh nauseous says my cousin. You know good but then you're mighty at least for me. I stick connect shit. I caught myself having to readjust kind of fake it a little bit and i got called album kirk cousins and then like i've known internally as like having that conversation with myself shit man fuck that. I don't want to have a girlfriend. Because it's going to cramp your style myself. So that's that's crazy right there. Yeah i know so. I guess like there's different levels of monday loan. I mean because it's like one of them is like when like when you get your girlfriend or with your whip. You're all with you know you rather be with your girl and to be out with the guys and stuff like that you know but then after that like i remember when one of our friends that that he was the first one to like like have a girlfriend move in with their whatever. And we're like ask it like you know like chandola career like you know making fun of and stuff but you know i mean. He's he's he told universities. Are i get more action in in one week that you do all munt that apply. Does he equivalent. I remember back in the party decent after high school. You know the girlfriends these were just girls. That were actually just france party. They're like oh ever saw song saw She's wiping it. I wish aussies down but she's wiping it today. And it's like part of the culture mandate. He's you growing up and and i wonder if wiping it is their equivalent among the loan. I guess it's not just the not just the guys. Are they call it. Well the the pagan pagan. And i guess it's the way of maybe evening at evening. It out you know or maybe making sure that we don't go overboard whether it's the woman or the man you know in the relationship that yeah you know what. I'm going to be a monday long because you know the other weekend or maybe last month i went overboard. So you know what you got to call it this going to call it this time around. you know. maybe that might be a bit of it. You know it's like you fucked up and you got to. Yes she'll walk a straight line for a while. You need something interesting having the on like if you really really think about it like not to get too crazy seriously. This is kind of a hard topic but you know. Domestic violence is pretty big and mexican american culture and much. She's will culture. Yeah so if you think about it that beg on. It has real roots monday. Lawn right when i'm gonna whip your ass litter to prove. Yeah yeah and then the lady. Unfortunate his wwi seen burkino makira. You know and it kinda sucks. I mean i remember When i met my wife When we're going out. I mean really i. I did Previously i just like a like party on on that i was. I was a party animal on colleague. My brother will call me. Hey dude over kyla go. Dude i go to. I'm hungover myself is a catch. A cab over here you know and so i was just catch a cab and then which is like gum continue the party or whatever this was before ruber and stuff you know and Then when i got my my girlfriend when my wife which was my girlfriend at the time then after that i just like now you know what it's like i'm happy here. Yeah i mean. I didn't tell them that. But it's like. I be kicking back. I go up and i wouldn't be all hung over all the time you know. And so then he's like oh come over you know and that was like nah do ban. You know you have to ask permission or subtypes. Oh that was another thing that sometimes. Oh next saturday we're gonna go to. Let's go while you know. Let me get back to me. Get back to it. What are you a monday. Lonergan have to check. See if i have any plans. Monday lawn mundy loan. It's like it's just like you know what that means like been respectful. You know it's like i. I could tell them. Yeah i'm gonna go and read the left me. I can't go. That's even worse. You know. I didn't get permission. Reminds me of when all the guys when we would all hang out for. And whatever and for some reason so wouldn't be able to go or we'd have to like plan our plan our our trips beforehand and remember what i would always say. Hey make sure you get the weekend furlough. Gos- the wi fi you know for the weekend furlough man. Sometimes you know one of us would wouldn't be able to make it and you know and that's been monday lawn man i mean and whoever did it make it all weekend. We'll be talking crap about them behind the well. They can't even talk behind their back because they're not even they're also another another time. When when i've got called out is because like one time we were forgot what it was. I just had my oldest my oldest son. He was my only son and it took him with me wherever i went. You know so. We my brother's having like some barbecue or something and we go there and it's just me and my son and he crap so of course after change diaper. I'm not going to leave him with with his diaper. You know so then frigging. Hey what can achieve cheeses diaper guys diaper like. Some guys are like dude. You would never see me. See me changing. Any of my kid's diaper anytime. I'm so i remember having it's like hanging out with my little boy you know it's like if i'm gonna take them going have to be able to change his diaper you not in that. I'm not even crap all over himself. You know so you know. But that's a good point too if you think about Or whatever poverty you want to slice it. A lot of our peers. France they fall into two camps right. Either fucking dude. Your wife should be doing all that shit or i never teams attract diaper. You're never gonna catch me changing a diaper reverses like me. I embraced father could. Yeah that's crazy. Because i was in love with my me for my child you know and the same thing i would take my buying lira and hang out at the get and and you know i would do and out remember getting crap for too much of maybe. That's why you guys must be from the platinum mandalorian you. We're at the at the mandalorian guilt. President of the money being anti mighty long is now like a on a semi serious note. I think we sort of mentioned it earlier. I think you know being monday. Loaned basically finding that balance within your relationship man and and you know and And honoring our relationship and having a mutual respect for one. Another whether it's things like changing the diapers you Young gentlemen have done with your with your kids. You know what i mean. That's the showing one respect and showing too much dottino and you know and love that you have for your kids and for your family and you know what i if that's being monday. Long then plug. You guys should be proud of that part. Yeah you know what i mean like. I said i wanted to take my son. I wanted to take my son. I wanted to take my kids everywhere you know and you know. Sometimes i take them for extended length of time they have to be able to have to be with. Who changed diaper. As a matter of fact. I remember before it got a baby. Somebody gave me a gift that i it was like it was actually the the the mandalorian handbook the which can give afterwards. I'm actually i have. The heavier official cards didn't give you the the mental handbook. I couldn't really shows you. It shows how bad it was a for first time fathers fathers. You know it had pictures and everything how how to do the swallows and even abc's subtitle monday knows how to improvise on denver's all you know you could get just a towel and put some duct tape like. He was like a macgyver macgyver. Type of fatherhood and book like how to do different things. It was pretty cool and now he brown proud. Psa always create positive relationships. Real men don't trip on gender equality. They strive for balancing their relationships. But this doesn't mean you have to be a push or get offended when your call you and monday loam we'd be honor to have you as copa. Please subscribe to our podcast on your favorite listening app. We as men brown we attorneys and this became real for me. Because i had to give up my job. Essentially my full time job at africa. Fifteen years and i i you know in theory you know because my wife and i have such a great relationship i like. Okay yeah i could do it. And make our move over to the valley here in california and for what i kinda thought about it but it kind of kept messing with me a little bit of a brain thinking about that because it's like I had this great job. Great flexibility pretty. Good pay on now. I'm making the transition to. And i gotta find a job gonna find some sort of income early on. It did mess with meal a bit kind of made me think about like shit man. You know like my wife is taking care of me like mike. She's amazing she's making more money than i am. Like you guys are switching the the normative the social normative. You're you're no longer the breadwinner. The you know the the man with the pants and you know man of the house the man quote unquote man of the house. You know dude. I mean. I can't even imagine what you know what. That is what it feels like to go to that. Psychologically because everything that you're saying you're going against what society says you as a man should do you know and and i don't think people understand that i mean you know Just like the whole thing that you mentioned in cryer. Boys don't cry. You know that's a lower level of what you're going through like i remember i used to work at lax. And the traffic was crazy home. I never i take me over an hour and a half to two hours and so sometimes i hated that time of the year win. I would leave my my time. I leave to work with a by six thirty or something like that. And i wouldn't get him to a bollocks six thirty so it's like when they leave. It was dark when they come home. It was dark. And i remember when they changed the time. That all right. When i get home there's gonna be some sunlight so there i'll be able to play with my kids a little bit in the in the sunlight. You know i mean. I don't ever remember looking forward to the daylight during the daylight savings time change or whatever you know but i remember that when it was primarily for to spend time with the kids know what Twenty years ago thirty years ago before before we had kids we were the ones who are we talking. Shit right yeah. We're to to ruben. Whatever happens my friends. Started getting married even getting married. We we say terrible things about our friends getting y- that's my so much smack. Because they got married. We couldn't under i give it six months. Hukou hukou we would bet we certain friend and how long you know. We thought that he would last year. I mean dude just jacked up stuff like all marry now. We have kids you. We all have kids and reuben has graduate child. You know and here. We are due for like or or here. We are looking back how horrible we were and and now in a. I don't know if we get. I don't get defensive anymore. But he beloved. You know you know what i mean. It's like i i right now. I love the life. I'm living you know it's like i love being married. I love being a father. I love Well i'm just gonna like been the provider. I love like everything you know. I mean it's like. I never thought believing the lifestyle. I'm living right now. I mean i mean. I guess way before i when i was younger but then i went for a long time with not even thinking that like that. This was going to be a life that i was gonna live. you know. Well you know. I think we were. We were kids back then do in her twenties. Even though you know you're an adult in your twenties but you know how much do you really know man. And i think a part of it was an speaking for myself. It's like maybe part of it was was fear and part of it was jealousy. Yeah i was gonna say. I was gonna say jealousy had something to do with it you know and I mean even though we always want the best for our friends yeah. It's sort of like when you're a kid and you know and so one has like a like the candy that you want. But you can't get you know. Or if i borrow your but yeah you're like hey i want that too but i can't have it and so on but i think make it chose to our maturity you know and how life life has shown us you know that things are different. You know we have once again. Different life priorities into and Maybe you know well. I'm thinking back to the beginning. You know we we. We said the mandalorian you know and a the you know the way the mandalorian. Wha what's his. What's his sole purpose to protect baby. Yoda any costs. Ask me anything that. He changes his diapers as his diapers. You would think you would know how to change his diapers. But hey but i mean but you know like so using that as an analogy you the mandalorian soul You know you know sole thing in life is to make sure that little baby. Yoda is safe is taking care of. And that's right he's you know. And the mandalorian were originally like enemies of the iota but but but he's taking care of them. And i think that's where we're at now. I mean it's like you know what i'm here to like like like like harvey said you know to provide and take care of my family and it's gone beyond providing take care. I love them. This is what we do as brown men. This is what we do as as brown fathers i mean as we do his father's period but you know but you know we're let's campus you know and unfortunately i said earlier. I don't see this enough man. And an i applaud both both the. I'm proud to say that you're my campus for a lot of reasons and this is one of the reasons you have made difficult life decisions to put your family first. You know and And you can still go out and party and everything i know. There's sometimes you know when we all get together. You know and sometimes i get a little hurt. Because i wanna hang on a little bit longer. Yeah but i know. Hey you know what we have to go back to the family. So i'm cool with that you know. And that's the sort of my childish ways at times. And i think we all i think we all have a little bit of that every now and then we wanna we wanna stay out a little longer. But you know the realities. Hey man you know. I have to go to work tomorrow or you know what i had to take my my son to school tomorrow or whatever the thing is you know but but yeah maddening sake. We're not monday. Lowness were mandalorian. You know our purpose is to take care of our families man. My encouragement is to step it up. Man i love manda up. That kinda sucks but step. Step it up. Be the real man you want to re and forget this whole shame and internalizing of being. You know being called into question you know. Forget all that man. it's like reflect inward and being the man you want to be. Yeah it's funny because maturity with maturity you not because i remember being called Monday lawn. let's say like or like saying that. I was whipped. Or whatever you know. Like when i was in my twenties or something like that and at that time is like shit you know like i'll show them like i'm not even gonna call my girlfriend. I'm just gonna stay out here with you guys. You know as ever get in trouble later. Whatever you know it's like and then you know this time with my wife now like i remember when my brother was starting to get hurt because because i was in spending as much time with them or whatever he starts start telling is well. I like don't even have item. He's not gonna make it. You know that. After that. I remember a friend tells me also also. I heard that i heard that you that your girlfriend doesn't let you party anymore. And i go like john like trying to start picking at me and i go. I choose not to party as i choose not to party. I choose not to party like trying to like you. Know like serbia dating with instigated. But you know at that point. It's like i was like i was happy with my girlfriend. It's like i if i went out with them. I knew i knew it was going to end up Probably end up party for the next two or three days. Just frigging be recovering or something you know versus go with my new girlfriend. You know it's like you know. I mean it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me. That they were that they that they were trying to instigate me that they were trying to the comey monday lawn. Or whatever you know like your whip with a mullet whatever you know it's like put whatever label you want it. I'm happy and that's the key right there. Bop call me whatever you wanna call me. I'm happy and that's the journalism izing that i wanted to share. I was sharing with you guys earlier. Once you're turning the lights happiness right or your turnover is the power of being soft determined that you choose as a man to be with your wife to be with you. New girlfriend to be an equal partner. You're recognizing relieved or not here recognizing the power and recognizing that it's a beautiful and powerful thing to say. I'm i am choosing to not go to this party and get off drunk for two or three days good under the lion. A- newland be drinking beer. Not that i'm choosing to be mckeon. Immature committed relationship and that's tough many respect. It could be respectful. You sit right there but But to be more precise you're choosing to be a man period. Amanda knows how to make their decisions. Not a boy who's learning to be a man but you're a man now and maturity is part of it but it's not being matured being a man you know and and understanding you know there's a time and place for everything right now is not the time or place to go out. You know right now. Choose because i want to be with my with my partner. I want to be with my family. And that's all that matters plain and simple in on a basically you know part of my american but having the balls to stand up for for what for what you want and what like you said makes you happy. What makes you happy right now. Being with my family with my hanging out with my my wife and making it a net flicks night and yeah plain and simple man. You know not But com but it's not so simple because part of it's part of the life experience that we can all be when we're twenty one years old you know even when we're thirty one years old you know you in forty one. No but but when we get there. Isn't it funny. How life becomes simpler. You slow darned to make your decisions. Things slow down our remember back in the day. Even sim analogies like we used to live life hundred miles per hour. We didn't know what the heck a stop sign was right is like bam bam bam. We look as far as we look as far into the future as the weekend. Exactly and then like you said to bomb a turkey and now we have We take the foot off the accelerator. We just slow Closed enjoy the mole. Man joy. the kids the y you know could be a parent beloved. Feel the moment. And if that's what makes us Monday long these days than shit. And i guess we're embrace it you know or at least ira and i think that's another part of being a man is is embracing everything that a man is. You know i mean your your partner. you know. Know she is. She is your balancer. You know and you can't be balanced if you're if you're a relationship is imbalanced you know and Because if it's always about me me me. Guess what there is no we you know and And that's part of to be happy you know and learning learning to be yourself because you're learning how to be yourself with your partner. You're learning how to be yourself with your kids because you're growing you're evolving as a human being human spirit as a brown man you know and once again you know. That's that's the mandalorian. So what happens now. Like like you guys still call other men might be lowness or you're right. It's part of the you know for example when a see like a lifetime ago i forgot what it was even with my daughter like she was saying. You know your friends when you when you when you can start bagging on each other. You know and it's like this is you know got. Yeah yeah because we're told me like either you it even you when when you know. You're talking to that. You were stay at home with the beachie monte nido and said you know we got and maybe maybe it's something that we say jokingly now really malice anymore and like you were saying a you know it's because we're compass that we can talk crap with another because that's all it is you know it's you know just my mother's remember. I told you in an episode in a previous episode. That started with a coworker or call. That are. I felt our conversations. Were going real. Good in your thing. So i call with. Somebody may where you have to call me to her. You know you know like you guys like that. You guys are gonna call glove right back where we're at now in the maturity level because either with my my my my in laws my brother. My brother's in laws of here. We party up the safety ups off the bag. I'm leaving what about you. Do stay here by wife's my car. I gotta go by akshay. i didn't finish. I shake it off because it's funny and that's nothing because it's funny. I was gonna say growing up growing up like my dad had a friend. You know that he will come visit them. Sometimes they stay here for a few drinks and then after that his west right is gone. Or i was actually my desk compiler. He's my brother. David's Godfather as okay combining yummy roy. The as i did when we go visit damage the roads will reverse. You know it's like by by dow dot com okay but competitive yemen boy yet. The muscle yet. The use that line on my house party. No i'm not driving. I tell i tell them. I pre pre pre a preemptive strike strike. Yeah go as not spur me ever centralized get you on your mic there. Talk to mike. And mike over the it to pop leasing by mid latching of the beer but only next time next and the wives. Like shit like yeah. Don't worry about driving or she's driving in. What are you gonna do with my bobby. Nine can be. They're offering me a dom and is being hospitable. Man that's better to be hospitable than hostile dog. Styling style beatable. Yeah so yeah so you know you said that it was two people you know what i mean. I do like you. Like ruben said without malice. And so it's like you know like my younger nephews or or You know the younger people you know. I'm going to do with malice. But but i when i do see one of my nephews is being a little too much of a pie or something you know. We'll we'll call him out on it. you know. i mean it's like you know what it's like. You have to put some limits or cousins or something like that. It's like so i could be. It's good and bad right. If it within friends and family courses they're kind of saying hey dude grow some rope grow pair come on yeah and the be joking about it but then when it's done with malice that's when it sucks. Think man when you come out in front of people to make fun of to to you know but yet but that's going to seem like like for for like people that are really respect or whatever you pull them aside and tell them individually. you know. It's like there was a friend that went like his girlfriend was like like no i. I'm calling me okay. And then later on when we were alone i do. I go the way you're the way your girlfriend was acting with you. Go after the look. Great especially your public. Yeah exactly in front of everybody everybody. Yeah yeah yeah. But i didn't. I didn't kalamata in front of them on the under on the add to the fire. Yeah yeah exactly but you know what. That's a good point in reality and it's sad. I've seen other dudes who are totally like who could be. And there's a power dynamics there where the life is is not balanced. It's not balance off. The wife of the girlfriend is crushing. This dude or just using them as just crushing them right in disguise. Soul is crushed and it sucks. When i see that it's not painful bovine. That's like literally emasculated. But that's that's that's beyond the mandalorian way out on the abusir exactly a balanced and on the flip side you know. I think we also have to be conscious of us as men when we do that to. You know to our partners you know to our female partners you know and You know because. I know i've done it in the past where i had to be looking on in all being the big hole because it has to be rubens way you know and i think we have to acknowledge that that you know. Sometimes we're the ones that are doing that to you to our partners you know and You know. I don't know if there's any word for that you know besides just being an asshole but you know You know we have to acknowledge that as well. You know how many times we been the ones that have quote unquote put you know our girlfriends or Our girlfriends in plan in place you know put them put them in check you know and And it doesn't work for them. Either man you know so. I think as as you know as mature Mature men something. We ought to acknowledge as well. And also teach our kids and our in our contemporaries that you know. If they're doing that you know like like you know like on the flipside like would would hobby do with his friend. We have to pull our friend over saying you know what you don't have to be. You don't have to be that way. So are we cool with being monday. Lowness now at grown men. No no no once again. You're confused we mandalorian student. Are we meant lauren's so where mandalorian because this is the way is the way if you like what you heard go hit subscribe to our broadcasting gibson five view it really means a lot and really up on this podcast we invite you to visit us at massamba lunch dot com to share your ideas at suggest topics for future episodes until next uncle bus. Be proud be brown. That's right be safe to next.

ruben kompass mexico latin america Robens six dollars virgin cape seven dollars primoz crazy twenty thirty years chandola burkino makira kyla go lawn mundy loan dottino rubens kuhlman donny mandela arnold schwarzenegger brown
The First Steps of Impeachment with Carrie Cordero

Words Matter

42:45 min | 1 year ago

The First Steps of Impeachment with Carrie Cordero

"Welcome to words matter with Katie Barlow and Joe Lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm Katie Barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled to their own opinion not their own facts words have power and words have consequences our guest today is the Robert M gates senior fellow and General Counsel at the Center for a new American security. Kerry Cordeiro is also an adjunct junk professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center. Go Hoyas A. C. N. N. legal analyst and a contributing editor of law fair carry has served in numerous US singer positions at the Department of Justice and the Office of the Director of national intelligence including as counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for National Security Senior Associate General Counsel at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney Advisor at the US Department of Justice where she handled critical counterterrorism honor terrorism and counterintelligence investigations carry Cordeiro. Welcome back to words matter. Thanks so much Kitty Carey. Were very lucky to have you. Today on our listeners are very lucky given your background and the complexity of the issues that have surfaced now in the last roughly two weeks. I want to start by establishing shing a couple of things you know. There's a lot of noise out there. I think a lot of people are already talking about the deep state in someone working within the government to undermine the president there's a line in the whistle blowers complaint that I want to read and then get you to to react to it is routine for US officials with responsibility for a particular or regional or functional portfolio to share such information the contents of a telephone call with one another in order to inform policy making an analysis so it's within the government and the interagency process information is being shared all the time so there's nothing nefarious about the whistle more having this information correct. I think that's right given that the phone call was between the president and a foreign leader there it would be individuals on the National Security Council there would be individuals within the intelligence community who have various responsibilities for that region of the world old and the issues that originate from that region of the World Ukraine and the surrounding area that would all be knowledgeable about interactions between between at high levels between the two governments so talk a little bit about the process of in this whistleblower complaint again he or she writes. I'm deeply concerned that the actions described below constitute quote a serious or flagrant problem abuse violation of law or -secutive order that quote does not include difference of opinions concerning public policy matters. I'm there for under the law fulfilling my obligations to report this information talk about the procedure of how a whistle blower or come to a conclusion and how it gets to where we are now now that we have the whistleblower complaint in front of us. This complaint was thoughtfully. seriously developed in a way that looks to me like it was prepared knowing that it eventually I would probably become public. it carefully quotes the statutory sections it is well crafted and organized knives and clearly written so all of which is to say the complaint reads to me that the individual who filed it understood the gravity of of the situation and understood the scrutiny that the complaint and self would fall under and so it wasn't just something that was thrown together other as if you know somebody writes it an email. This was a carefully drafted and thought through complaint the second piece with respect to that part you mentioned does does not include differences of opinions concerning public policy matters so what that is intended to address. Is that all the time there are individuals in the government who are employees individuals who are employees of the intelligence community who might disagree with policy going on in the US government that happens every single day as a person who is working in the intelligence community knows one set aside their own personal views about policy matters or political matters when they go to work every day so that's intended tended to be clear that the person is not making this complaint because they disagree with the President's policies or or the administration's policies and that this is not about a policy disagreement. This is about what the complainant perceived the way the statute reads a series or flagrant problem abusir violation of the law so much of the discussion in recent days has surrounded the phrase urgent concern the inspector general of the intelligence community believed that the details of the complaint from the whistle blower were of urgent concern and that set in motion the whistle blower protection and a timeline but the head of the National Intelligence Mr McGuire went to the Justice Department for an opinion Justice Department led by Attorney General Bar that took the view that this wasn't urgent concern. It's Wayne what aging concern is and why it seems to be important here so urgent concern is is in the statute and so it has to concern something that is within the purview of the director of National Intelligence and that's where it seems to be there was a disagreement between Wean the Inspector General of the intelligence community and the Department of Justice which was was asked by the DNA general counsel to give an opinion the Justice Department took the position that because the matter at issue issue pertain to the president's communication and discussion with a foreign leader that that wasn't something thing that fell under the director of National Intelligences Authority and that was one of the reasons that they held up providing reading the complaint to Congress. It looks like the Inspector General took the position that because the allegation was impart in part about the president soliciting foreign assistance in the campaign or election process as we we shift into the twenty twenty presidential campaign that because election interference is a subject matter that is under under authority and preventing against it and collecting intelligence about the intentions of foreign governments to interfere in our elections that very much does fall all under the authority of the Director of National Intelligence and so there was a substantive disagreement about the application of that urgent concern will carry. You're pretty smart lawyer. WHO's right. I think there is a strong argument that given the subject matter which which is plainly clear from the text of the transcribed call or the summary of the phone call that has been just released. He's so far that the president endeavored to solicit the assistance of foreign government in the the election in order to obtain derogatory political information to harm his political opponent that falls within the issues is that the director of National Intelligence and the intelligence community are involved with as a heightened matter of concern. I mean if we go back and we look at the recently departed from office director of National Intelligence Worldwide Threat Briefing from Early Twentieth Nineteen interference her fear Ins in elections and democratic processes was something that was featured prominently in the intelligence community has been very consistent insistent about its communication to the public and to its congressional overseers that foreign interference in elections remains an ongoing issue so there is in my judgment substantial ground for the individual to have made the complaint and for for the Inspector General to have thought it was appropriate to provide to the congressional intelligence committees and just stepping back from the analysis of the taxed of the statute in particular because the individual who filed this complaint at least based on what we we know so far is is a member of the intelligence community. I think it's safe to assess that that if the person could not make the complaint to the Inspector Spector General of the intelligence community where else could the person have gone. I mean this is somebody who has really made an effort to follow the law to follow the procedures. They did not go running to the media. They did not go running directly to Congress even they went to the inspector general of the community with in which they are that person is employed and so there is no other recourse for this person to identify hi wrongdoing that they believe they have information about Carey before Katie gets into the the details of the phone call and the effort by president trump to allegedly influence the behavior of the Ukrainian government with the military aid. Do you have any concern given and how political the Justice Department has become and attorney general bars role particularly in how he handled the MOA report that somehow how politics had a role here well the analysis of the office of Legal Counsel obviously would be in this circumstance chance was would would have been coordinated with the office of the Attorney General. Their analysis is not outrageous ages so I think I mean one can make the argument that they make. I don't agree with it. I do think that the attorney general obviously severely damaged his own credibility with his handling of the Mullahs Report and so there are substantial questions about whether he is willing to allow the justice department to be improperly influenced by the president and the White House and the text of the phone call of course reveals that the president certainly views attorney general bar really in much the same way that he views Rudy Giuliani Johnny as his personal lawyer so in the text of the phone call that we have now with the Ukrainian president president trump says that he will have both Rudy Giuliani and attorney general bar follow up with the Ukrainian government about the potential investigations of the Biden's Lydon's and so that indicates that certainly the president views attorney general Bar much like a personal lawyer or a campaign adviser or somebody who has on his team and willing to use the instruments of the Justice Department to further his political objectives. I think it will be very interesting to see as the facts are are revealed over the next few days weather attorney general Bar knew his name was being used in that way so carrie. I WanNa talk about the July twenty fifth call and now we have the whistleblower complaint that describes the call in several different individuals perspectives of that call and the readout of the call itself from individuals participating on the call and we know that there are several members of the intelligence community and others who were listening in taking notes participating dissipation in this call and I want to rely on your breadth and depth of experience here particularly with Odeon I to talk about the human element of what it would be like to be in the room when something like this happens and we know from the complaint the whistle blowers complaint that it says directly quote the president used the remainder the after an initial exchange pleasantries the president used the remainder of the call to advance his personal interests and we know from the now unclassified if I'd read out of the call at the bottom of page two that presents Alinsky is talking about purchasing more javelin in the very next line from the president is I would like you to do do us a favor though so given all of that information in knowing the types of civil servants that are human and participating in this call what is going through their reminds or what would go through your mind in the room. As this is happening and then what do you do in the immediate math of that well first of all it's your you're right to point out that there would have been a number of people who were knowledgeable about the phone call taking place who perhaps were listening are were her not you who were knowledgeable about it right after it occurs. There's whoever wrote the summary of it. It's a little unclear really from that release of the text of the call whether it was transcribed or whether it was somebody's notes I mean it is quite detailed. Although I have seen some reporting pointing running out discrepancies between the amount of tax that's been released versus the time that the call was supposed to have taken place so I think we still don't know exactly whether that summary that's been released is the every word that was spoken in the conversation. I think given the context of the president asking the foreign leader for a favor in the same nearly the same breath that the foreign leader just described defense issues between the two countries and a potential purchase of of arms that many national security officials who would have been listening to that or made aware of it quickly would have known that that something very wrong wrong was going on here it also one of the issues that that I've been trying to emphasize in the discussion of this this week is is that this is exactly what the Mullahs report predicted so the report was all about volume one was all about laying out the two thousand sixteen trump campaign's willingness to receive foreign assistance so I think it is nearly impossible that national security Kirti officials when they listened to or became aware of this conversation that they would not have immediately recognized that this was not only the president being willing to receive foreign assistance but that this was him requesting foreign assistance to you find a political dirt on opponents and to look into issues that are old and stale regarding and conspiratorial oriole regarding the Hillary Clinton emails both issues were mentioned in the phone call so I think it would have been jarring to officials and and now that we have the text of the complaint it certainly looks like individuals who listened to the caller were knowledgeable at the call were talking about it with each other and acknowledging that there was something Amiss. Yeah I actually wanted to ask you about the both of those mentions in the readout of the call because there are Lippi's in some interesting places and I don't know if those ellipses indicate perhaps a reduction entitled removal of information or just information or something getting harder to hear of for those participating on the call but the first place where there's an Alexy's in the readout it says quote I would like you to find out what happened with the whole situation with Ukraine. They say crowd strike followed by an ellipse sees and then the second one is Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into that ellipses so I if you have any understanding of what those ellipses indicate whether that is an actual substantive redaction or just something that fell off from the call but then what do they signify. What do you think is the substance. They are in that conversation station. And what's the import of that missing. You know I don't know I don't want to speculate why the ellipses are there again whether it was a summary that the words words were intelligible or whether this is something information that was removed more deliberately. I tend to think that if it was information removed deliberately Louis then eventually it's going to come out. I mean at this point. We have the director the acting director of National Intelligence testifying in open session in front of the House US intelligence community. We have the complaint with limited reductions being public. We have the White House having released a summary of the call and if there was something scratched out of the out of the transcript of the summary that is going to come to light so I think I'm going to hold off on speculating speculating on it for now as to the substance so again the to substantive issues that the president was requesting the government and of Ukraine to get information investigate or get information to provide to him and his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani one pertained to this alleged server that the president seems to think still exists and he mentioned the company crowd strike which of course is a United States cyber security company that is extraordinarily knowledgeable about foreign influence in in our our electoral systems and had been involved in the investigation and according to crowd strike they have provide they provided long ago all of the relevant forensic information to the FBI the I so that's what that reference was pertaining to but again a political request on the part of the president and then the second is the second second part of this conspiratorial thinking that that there is something worth investigating with respect to the Biden's both of these. He's have nothing to do with. US foreign policy and I think that's a point that that we need to emphasize which is there is no credible argument that discussing those two things whether they are conspiratorial or they are just a non understanding of the part of the president. Whatever is the reason there that has nothing to do with US foreign policy and there is no credible argument that it does and it demonstrates the president as the complainant complainant the whistleblower complaint it alleges it demonstrates the president using his position as president using his Ford Affairs Authority his conversation and with a foreign leader which is supposed to be about international cooperation and defense issues and serious national security issues. He's trying to exploit that relationship for his political gain and that's corrupt. I WanNa ask you going back to being in the room and what happens in immediately after obviously obviously we know there's a readout of the call someone is charged with typing that up and providing that to individuals that participated obviously we now know from the complaint that several people people were talking about the call and perhaps their concerns about the call and the corruption that you just mentioned but then we also now know from the complaint that the the readout from this call was originally on one system within the White House electrically and it was taken down from that system and then put into a separate computer system reserved for codeword level intelligence information and used for for example for covert action as the complaint says. How often does that happen. The complaint says that it's not it's not the first time that a readout from call has been put onto that server but how rare is that in the context of everything else that was going on walk us through that process a little bit and if that would make your ears perk up so I didn't personally work in the White House so I can't say for sure that I have personal knowledge about whether or not that has ever occurred across various administrations. I will say as a former attorney in the intelligence community that it certainly has the appearance of using the mechanisms of classified information that are intended to protect classified information which by definition is information if revealed would cause caused some sort of harm to the United States whether it's serious harm or grave harm depending on the level of the classification the reason the classification system exist this is to protect that type of information information that would cause harm to the United States. This would have been information that is politically damaging damaging to the president and one of the issues whenever the intelligence community goes through a declassification process so reviewing a document or something that is being reviewed dude for declassification purposes a legitimate reason to keep something classified is that it meets that that definition I just mentioned that it would cause some sort out of harm to the United States national security in illegitimate reason to keep information classified is that it looks bad or for its politically damaging or it's embarrassing to an administration or even to a government agency or to the intelligence community itself those are not legitimate reasons to keep information classified and so this looks like that it looks like information being squirrelled away on a system meant to protect national security information but instead being used to protect embarrassing or politically damaging information and that seems like an inappropriate use of the system. Have you ever known an official to AH shift a classification because something would be embarrassing or heard something along those lines no not in my experience Harry. I did work at the White House and that particular. The report of the complaint really struck me. I think you're right about the national security concerns versus the personal concern for the president but but this doesn't appear to be something that was more highly classified and was so sensitive that fewer people could see it. You're right. It was embarrassing. This actually feels like it was put in a box where the people who legitimately would want to see this to do their work could not find it that in the parlance of Washington screams screamed the word cover up knowing what you know about how the inner agency process works. Where do you think that might have come from. I mean who who in the White House would would have looked at this and said this is so serious. No one should see this beyond the president and the Secretary of state well according to the complaint the complaint itself. That's been declassified says that White House officials told the complainant lenient they were quote directed by White House lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system where they were stored and instead was loaded into the separate system so according to the complainant it was done at the direction of White House lawyers. It wasn't the National Security Adviser who had some overriding concern about our national security. It was a White House lawyer who may very well been looking after the president's political insurance. All I have to go on right now is what's in the complaint and so the complaint says that it was at the direction of White House lawyers you know it's an interesting point about lawyering the White House. Lawyers are not there to protect. The president's ends political interests. They don't work for Donald Trump. They work or any other president. They are White House counsel. They are there to give advice to the president in his capacity as president and so it is an open question question and I would imagine we'll be an area that the the intelligence committees will be looking at as to why White House lawyers if if the complainant is correct gave that advice but just as a lawyering point and a government lawyering point the role of the White House lawyers is to to give advice to the president and the institution of the presidency not to protect his political interests for this. I'm asking you for your opinion opinion now but haven't these lawyers and they are individuals rather than an institution given the attitude they've taken towards the -secutive privilege in in fact even arguing that people who never worked in the White House have some protection under executive privilege and that there's something called an executive community that appears to be a new creation out of this White House counsel's office. Haven't they at least created the impression that they're working for the president personally not for the institution joy. There is an argument that this White House certainly and the Justice Department certainly have adopted extraordinarily expansive expansive view of executive privilege there certainly is a strategy to make broad claims about privilege and I think that is a bit of have strategy in terms of dealing with the various inquiries and investigations that are open across multiple committees of Congress. I do think those assertions of executive privilege even if they are extraordinarily extraordinarily broad are a a little bit different than analogous that White House lawyers might have been giving a direction solely to protect the president's political political interests and trying to bury if there's an allegation that they were trying to bury ah document that revealed the president was not faithfully executing his oath of office in his position so I think there is I take your point but I think there is actually Salihi Asleep distinction. I want to ask about the congressional investigation and the next steps that happened here so we know that Congress is going to have to investigate this and it relates to a lot of classified material and a lot of individuals are mentioned in the report The complaint the complainant's report art so I I want to talk about what's the best way for Congress to start doing this. Who is the priority and how do they prioritize what comes next. I and knowing now the early Republican talking point and the defense about the complaint is that the individual that wrote the complaint has no direct knowledge pledge and they're just all of these people that were talking and this person really doesn't know anything for sure so how does Congress one combat that and to to effectively marched down the road piece by piece and gathered the information. They need to actually get to the bottom of what happened when it happened and who did what in response so Katie. I actually don't think this is an incredibly complex investigation to conduct first of all. It looks like most of the information that is is at issue in it is not classified so this complaint was written in an unclassified way. There is a short classified addendum that was attached to it which the president has facilitated and directed a substantial part of it would be released in redacted form so most of the complain actually seems to be unclassified. The tax of the phone phone call has been released by the president so no more assertions of classified information and that no more assertions of any kind of privilege in that so there actually is quite a bit of unclassified and unprovoked information that is already available to the committees. I think the next step I think first of all this complaint complaint has been made and provided now to the House and Senate intelligence committees and I think those are the committees the two committees best positioned to conduct the Investigations Gatien of this. It was extraordinarily important that the Senate voted the other day to make sure that in a unanimous ananymous bipartisan way to make sure that this complaint was provided to the intelligence committees so that was an important bipartisan step on the part of the entire Senate on it and at this point I expect that the intelligence committees are going to hear from the whistle blower end the whistle blower lower will be able to identify who the other government officials are that provided the information that formed the basis of the complaint and then the committees can call those individuals to be interviewed so I think there's actually a pretty defined set of individuals that are we'll have information relevant lynch this investigation and the complaint and the text of the phone call are already available so I don't. I don't think it's an overly complex investigation and I don't think that classified information is going to be that big of a bar in conducting it so it should be able to be done fairly quickly to be honest. I think thank you tweeted about this but I wanted to ask what you call. Rudy so that was in response to a report in a publication that was reporting wording that members of Congress particularly in the house and I think it pertained to the House Judiciary Committee specifically that they were considering whether or not to call Rudy Giuliani Johny to testify. I do not think that the House Judiciary Committee in the context of its impeachment inquiry should be calling Rudy Giuliani in an open hearing. I think that would be a circus. It would be counterproductive question as to whether or not he would be forthcoming and truth telling and they don't need it for the purposes of this investigation. The relevant information is did the president solicit said foreign information and the assistance of a foreign government for his own political purposes. It's already there in in the text of the phone call now. It's just fleshing out that information and determining whether there were other instances and other phone calls that confirm that and I I think there are factual questions that need to be explored regarding the timing of the withholding foreign assistance to Ukraine in the context of these conversations taking place and so right now. It looks like there is some circumstantial evidence that those two things are connected but the connections are not made explicitly in the taxed the call that has been released so I don't think that this is the time to distract from this serious inquiry that can be conducted by the intelligence committees to backtrack and have a Lewandowski type hearing again. That's just not constructive and I think the other thing is that this week as this complaint has unfolded dead with the Senate resolution and with the speakers press conference announcing her you're endorsement and approval going forward of of an actual impeachment inquiry there is a seriousness of purpose that we have seen in from war members of Congress and again I I refer back to that. Senate vote on the resolution and also some comments even from one one or two Republican senators in the past twenty four to forty eight hours that indicate that there are some members who understand the gravity of this allegation and I hope that going forward Congress will act in a way that continues to respect the gravity of the allegations that are made Carrie. You've been incredibly generous with your time so let me wrap up with one question. A viewer a member of the Intel Committee. It's clear from the denied that the whistle blower will be allowed allowed to testify privately to the committee. What are they two or three questions said you really need answers from from the whistleblower directly. Certainly the information that the committee members need to obtain from the whistle blower are who are the individuals that came to the whistle blower to report this information and shared this information with the whistle blower because the whistle blower does appear to be one step removed from the actual conversation itself so the the whistle blower can identify the additional fact witnesses for the committee and then. I think a second important avenue Vanu of inquiry is obtaining more facts to understand what was going on with the decision to withhold the foreign assistance tends to Ukraine. The combination of those two factual channels together should give the committee a pretty clear picture of of what transpired this summer carry. Thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time. Your insights your wisdom thanks Joe. Thank Gary that would be great interview with Carrie as always her knowledge and experience. It's incredibly helpful to those of US sitting on the sidelines for this one Joe. What'd you think yeah. I thought it was a very timely. I'll speak for myself here. Sometimes you get caught up in the politics of it and you don't really understand the underlying foundation of how the law works and why a whistle blower does what they do and how the structure works and I think Kerry was very good at walking us through very methodically how the whistleblower act works lie. It was normal for someone to have this information and put it all altogether way did as opposed to someone in the deep state who was spying on the president. I think she was a little reticent on the involvement of the attorney channel. That's what you'd expect from a lawyer. I'm a little less generous there. I really think that the idea that the inspector general of the intelligence community seizes seizes as an urgent concern. I don't see how anyone could interpret it any differently and that it was not relevant to the deny that seems it's absurd to me. It seems exactly what bill bar does in almost every case which is he axes the president's private attorney rather than the Attorney General of the United States but that's my opinion in an anyone listening to carry now has a much better understanding of the basics of what now the politicians will debate as politics always overtakes the substance well. I think that's exactly right and I agree with her that the individual who wrote the complaint either is a lawyer or had a good one or had some legal training. She's right that they walked through the facts they cite the law explicitly clearly know flowery language as a part of legal training. That's that's the best riding according to the point just straight factual statements I think it'll be interesting to see what the individual testifies to about the other individuals that were actually directly involved involved since it appears. That complaint was not directly involved here but I think she's right. I think this is presents a lot of unclassified information that gives Congress plenty to go on to do its job which she also said. Oh Elsie opinion that there's nothing there there you can disagree with it but that's that's what they did so now. The ball is squarely in Congress's Court to do their job to investigate to follow up into get the full picture of the story here. I completely Louis grew that you're right that this was written very very carefully in a very both loyally strategic way and with an eye towards making taking this case of eventually to the Public Joe. I wanted to ask you from your experience. What's it like to be in the White House right now. Unfortunately I I do have some experience of a White House that is facing impeachment and it a couple things that I think are applicable. One is it's terribly frustrating to work in the executive -secutive branch and to know the issues. You're working on whether you're working on healthcare immigration taxes the budget is you. We know it's going to be ignored. you know for the next three to six months maybe through the end of that to the next election and and the reason is frustrating. Is You need the media to pay attention to the things you're doing in order to build public support for whatever initiative you're working on so that you can get the money for Congress or Congress to pass a law to get things done. You also have a psychic need to have your work recognized so it's terribly frustrating. It's depressing it literally is depressing to wake up in the morning and be afraid to look at your phone hesitated detail there because of my time it was looking at the newspaper my all my phone told me was if I'd missed the phone. Call the emotionally very difficult time. I think that's where the comparison Jason Zan so. I can't really speak to too much about trump. I would say the trump. White House is woefully unprepared for what's about to hit them now now that may seem crazy because they have been in chaos and crisis since the very first day he took office but this is very different. Let me go back to the Clinton administration. We have a pretty healthy sophisticated communications. infrastructure that was able to push out the information we wanted a system of surrogates who would go out and make the case we were making and a very well respected White House counsel's Office had provided us with the content we needed to deal with a lot of of these issues and that was a big part in in helping the president get through a very difficult time in the White House staff getting through a very difficult time. This white has doesn't have any of that. I mean we're past two hundred days now since the White House has held a formal briefing with the press secretary by herself up. They're taking questions. They've missed that opportunity. They don't seem to have the infrastructure around getting messages out what they have is the president's twitter account and in some circumstances stances the president's twitter account you know he's very effective at driving agenda but it's now the president who is under investigation and you know the thing we learned which which is. I think the most profound from nineteen ninety seven nine hundred ninety eight the time period of impeachment was the president needs to show. Oh the public that he's focused on what they care about not what he cares about and the president's twitter account is reflection only what he cares about. He cares about saving himself off. He cares about lashing out at his opponents. He cares about playing the victim card. He cares about self pity and indulging himself and that my my view is a recipe for political disaster. People wonder how did President Clinton during the investigation get up to seventy three percent job approval when he was being impeached the highest of his term wells because the public got insight into the to president which was he was not focused. publicly on the investigation was focused on getting the People's business. Done and president trump has done just the opposite. I just don't think there's an upside to the politics politics pity in the politics of self indulgent. I may be proven wrong. It's been done many many times but I come back to this idea that they don't know what's about to hit them and they are not prepared for. What's about to hit them all right Joe. Well thank you and we're grateful to carry as always until next time thanks Katie. Thank you for listening to words matter for more information on our show and hosts visit words words matter media. Dot Com please rate and review words matter on apple podcasts and other podcasts providers.

president White House US Congress Katie Barlow attorney Justice Department Rudy Giuliani Donald Trump President Clinton Joe Lockhart National Intelligence White House Director of National Intellige Ukraine Biden Assistant Attorney General for Attorney General Bar Senate Kerry Cordeiro
Lessons from Past Pandemics with "The Great Influenza" author John Barry

Technovation with Peter High (CIO, CTO, CDO, CXO Interviews)

49:33 min | 9 months ago

Lessons from Past Pandemics with "The Great Influenza" author John Barry

"Welcome to Techno Vatian a weekly conversation with people who are shaping the technology landscape I'm Peter Hi. President of Meta Strategy Advisor Technology Executives Sports, columnist, author and your host. Each episode of innovation features insights from top executives thought leaders at the intersection of business, technology and innovation. If you like what you hear, be grateful that you give us a rating on Itunes, or through whatever other sources you use for podcasts. Please subscribe so you don't miss a thing. Thank you. My guest this week is John Kerry John is the author of the number one year times bestseller, the influence of the story of the deadliest pandemic history, a two thousand four book on the last, Global Pandemic nineteen eighteen, so called Spanish flu due to the current coronavirus pandemic. The book is a bestseller again eleven years after its original release. In this interview, we discussed the Genesis Story of John's book in the lessons of the pandemic of one hundred years ago today. We talk about some of the most interesting aspects of one thousand nine hundred pandemic, while also getting into some of the deeper scientific details in comparing the influenza virus to the coronavirus, we also discuss the critical importance of honesty and transparency of leadership in the face of this crisis, the failures of the federal government in its response to Covid nineteen and a variety of other topics before we get. Get to our interview I wanted to introduce you to our sponsor 's Ohio and the company's President Timothy Cosby prior to taking on his current role, he was the chief information officer of a number of companies, including reliance industries sears in trek on and the Warehouse Group. He's now at Soho a most unusual enterprise software company, and wanted to share some perspectives from it. Timothy Take it away. As business grows Peter More employees come on board they get. Enrolls teams and divisions, and suddenly that spirit of customers century city starts to disappear. Putting customer first enter becoming an empty slogan. Zoro is built on the whole, and that is no different. When we talk about the desk, we have taken on the challenge of serving over fifty five million news globally on our clouds around the clock. For US customer service is not a department or responsibility of some team, either entire operation and a commitment that touches everything that we do. Who we built so as to deliver a great customer experience providing right solution at the right time with near real time information to act quickly to have a meaningful conversation with your customers. You need customer context. Pasta interactions links to crm bug tracker projects, long conversations, recent negative feedback and macro crayons. We've found that giving these on different tabs can be a huge pain. Hence, we created a whole desk that prioritizes tickets with the entire knowledge base on a single screen. And we found that this save couple hours a day for an agent. Think about it an extra day per week saved. Manages CONC- finer detail on their screens and have time to think more about customer happiness. Soho desk built make customers more empowered agents more productive, and manages more impactful, thanks, Timothy, and now onto our interview, which was recorded in front of live audience. Thank you so much for for joining the conversation, it's Great great to see you, thank you. been looking forward to our conversation as well. With up to talk about some of the specifics of a the virus in one, thousand, nine hundred. began to be records team to show you correct me where avenue this off January of Nineteen, eighteen some of the first reported instances of it relatively mild in the early stages, but it like a lot of corona viruses. You tasted and really deadly vein. Of Its can't came in September of that year and glebe is a four month period where a lot of the killing you estimate. Worldwide somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty, two hundred million at a time when the population of the world was a third of what it is today, a a six, hundred, seventy, five, thousand roughly. The United States alone audited about some of the differences in the virus in nineteen, eighteen versus the one. We are currently. In fact, one of the reasons January was when I was first in Haskell which was the first place anywhere in the world, where there was a report of lethal, ours and the first known outbreak woods. For Riley and I could actually trap people from rural Kansas too far Riley where their families had people with influenza pneumonia, which is why game with Alice it based on. You Know Eucation, -cation rates and dating modeling, and so forth it looks now that the virus probably was around longer. Than January nine, Eighteen Haas as early nineteen fifteen. Nineteen sixteen. Maybe That's all based on my lane. We don't really know. I think the virus initially in its first way was not very good at infecting people. I. Get more of the world than it hit was pretty widespread in western Europe. It did hit some US cities. But a lot a US cities probably most US cities did not experience any spring wave. There was not a single death. In Los Angeles in the spring of Nineteen, eighteen, not one. But the virus did get better at infecting people and turn more virulent. That fifty to one hundred million figure, the first person to come up with that was McFarland Bernadette laureate. Expand who life studying influenza. Spent pretty much backed up by epidemiological research more recently. The two biggest differences between corona virus. Implants virus. number one in twenty mutates much much much rapidly. Virus does mutate, but they're both aren a viruses are viruses or Single Strand. DNA. Virus has that Helix so that double helix serves as a proofreading mechanism two strands because they have to match, so it didn't take much less rapidly aren't a biases a mutate faster than Danna viruses? But drawn Mirus does have a proofreading mechanism to correct its mutations which is quite unusual for an IRA virus? So that's one of the differences. In, one, thousand, nine, hundred eighteen in the spring. Even though is generally mild. There were. Plenty of pockets. where it looked really really dangerous. Plenty of hints that it contained within itself. The possibility of train Berry Berry Lethal. There's been incredible surveillance. This virus there isn't the slightest hint anywhere in the world that this virus could become more lethal. There's any mutation that's in that direction. There's some question that there are some mutations that may make it. Easier ailing allowed. Get more, efficient at infecting Cells that's possible. Although there's been a lot of pushback on at, but there has been a mutation that at least in cell culture Looks like a like it might be the case. But Another huge difference bearing important is timing duration. Incubation period for influences wanted to four days must get sick to. Viruses to to fourteen days. Most people get sick little over five. You're sick longer. You said viruses wander. All this. When when influence strikes a community whether one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighteen or today with seasonal influenza. It'll go through any given particular community basically six to ten weeks. in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighteen, probably two thirds of all the deaths occurred about fourteen or fifteen week period, but in particular community was even faster bat. And Crown our. It's positive moves to are slowly. It's just hangs around longer. That created much of if you had closed everything down. In one thousand nine hundred team, the duration would have been much much less stress on economy would have been much much less. And so forth and so on so that's one of the big problem sacred chronic virus. Creates a both of them transmit. Before people have any symptoms. Virus at a longer period. But by the same token that length of time gives you an opportunity. You do it right to do the testing in the contact racing which is being done. In many places around the world quite effectively, not so effectively in the United States Influenza. You wouldn't have time to do that really because the incubation area. So I. Guess That's probably the biggest difference is the timing. And Yeah. A little bit similarities though are. The sort of from. Grainger? I mean it's it's? It's not I, mean the. Site of kind storm is killing mechanism at the same one, thousand, nine hundred and many people died of secondary bacterial infections. The way, the nineteen eighteen biracial would infect pretty much every Argon, which is not the case for influenza normally. The way, this virus infects pretty much every. Are you know cardiovascular drugs neurological? You know whether. I mean I could could quote from. From the button to the kidneys. Everywhere and that's what we're discovering about. This virus, primarily respiratory virus, and yet it's getting everywhere. So we only have. It was finding when h five n one for a surfaced, and you read some pathology, or it's and they wrote that you know these findings have never previously been reported and influenza. Bang number read the nineteen eighteen pathology ores. No finding from from bird flu had not been reported. In one thousand, nine, hundred eighteen. So you begin to wonder. Whether or not there is. Some generalization you can make about. Possible. Pandemic viruses that jumps face a respiratory I. don't. I haven't just begun to think about that myself? It's a pretty small sample size so you don't really want to generalize on. Sample size at small. Other on. You, it's great you talk about how in nineteen eighteen people would go from. Twenty four hours from first symptoms, presenting to bleeding, not only from there, is that their their mouth and nose? But also there is of years, talked about the people turning blue to the point where it was unclear what race they were the right as a nation of of oxygen you also talk about. The fact that it was a disease that attacked mostly the people that were in the prime of their life very different from this one. It was not necessarily the young and the old. It was actually the people that were like in their twenties and thirties important. It was the fact that they were. Fee that their system was finding it so hard. You've talked about how it was a a war in lungs, and that young people's lungs could fight. Order was actually that fight that that often owed its. Right I. Think. You should. A. System eight changes as you age it strongest when you were younger. and. The nineteen eighteen virus along with. covid nineteen I could bind. To cells in the lung itself, seasonal influenza does not do that. h five n one could bind to cells in the lung. But not to the upper respiratory tract, which is why it's not transmittable. Between People One thousand, nine hundred eighteen buyers. Both upper respiratory tract, making it easily transmissible and. Sells deep in the lime, so you're essentially starting out with viral Maga and the same thing with Toronto buyers. And the immune system has some very lethal weapons. and. It was throwing. everything added. At. The virus in the battlefield was the line, so is largely destroying no longer lisa lungs ability to function i. In that is site kind storm that is mechanism surra which. People are dying today. The irony is that now younger people immune system. I in general is strong enough to fight the disease off. Completely or at least keep it mild. Whereas in the elderly, their immune system is not enough. To prevent them from getting the disease or a serious manifestation of the disease, edit is strong enough. To create that site, a kind storm in the lung so sort of a catch twenty two situation. I want to. Get get students at some of the applications for for the current situation in your own sort of thoughts about the no lessons from. Eighteen that we might still be able to learn from in the current circumstances I. Do want to linger for a couple more thoughts with regards to nineteen eighteen, one of the most fascinating aspects of the book was the description of Woodrow Wilson. And Wilson was singularly focused on World War One Obviously, joined the battle. The your prior was eight focused like a laser on this like a lot of leaders because we were on a war footing don't use it, but it was a fact that he there was censorship of the press, and as a result of the censorship of the rest, certainly echoes we see a little bit of of maybe not to the same extent day, but there echoes of disinformation people acting on wrong information to their own detriment perhaps but. In fact one of the reasons why it was called the Spanish flu Spain entered the war in still had. A did not have the me. submission, or the the the press was essentially allowed to report more faithfully than we're many countries, and so on top of the fact that the king also a contracted influence during this period as well I it was fascinating to me. This evolution of the process of Wilson his impact, both in terms of is is styling those who might spread good information. But then also this tremendous irony that he contracted himself on his trip to Europe and really You highlight how his contracting that really changed the trajectory of the world because of is giving into the demands of Clemenceau during the. Of the end of the war. Can you talk about one of the most fascinating learning for me? in the. You know I wanna go back to what you're saying about the center in the in the US. and. In Europe, it was outright censorship and the US, it was more of a self censorship, which was very very effective nonetheless. I the. Government did pass a law that made it punishable I twenty years in prison to quote out right print, or publish any disloyal profane scarlets, abusive language about the United States. This was actually upheld. By the Supreme Court. It was rigorously enforced us to congressman. Was Sentenced to ten years in jail under that law Oliver Wendell. Holmes generally known as a champion of free speech Opinion Upholding Law. To phrases came out of it. That you're familiar with one. Was You don't Chat Byron Aground Theater? And the other. S- clear and present danger Homes he does. arguments to. Support the. Vincent about uphold the Law But you had this threat of of enforcements for any criticism of the government at the same time they committed cut. Form something called the Committee for Public Information Propaganda Machine. The architect that community. Committee said. Nothing inexperienced tells us that the truth is superior falsehood. And all that matters inspirational value of an idea. So there were roughly a hundred thousand so called four minute men would go out before every public meeting. whether it was avoidable, show or school board meeting any public gathering. And give a very brief talk. So that that is the context between the everything of course was paused through there, no negative news. And practically every newspaper in the country willingly Fell into line and to give Wilson you know. Some justification, the largest demographic group in the country would German descent. Question whether they would fight against Germany. Ireland in one, thousand, nine, hundred sixteen Easter uprising. Lot of Irish. In the United States. Would they fight on the side of Britain? Even in World War Two Ireland became a haven. For Nazis after the war I even. It's another story, but I went to Northern Ireland right about some things and ran across many people who'd been sentenced to death after in absent you. who were living freely in Ireland? Pretty strong, anti-british feeling. So, this infrastructure existed. In the country and Influenza came along and sort of fell into that infrastructure was captured by it. So Wilson never made a public statement about the disease but National Public Health leaders. There's no Tony T. back. National leaders were saying things like this is ordinary influenced by another day. and. You've already described what could happen. Some of the symptoms people very rapidly learn. This was not ordinary influenced by another name. which contributed to in the worst cases, almost a breakdown of society? Didn't ask me about that. Yes, WE WILSON UP OR I. One of the. According to? Comprehensive reviews. Of the pandemic published in the twenties. You. By multiple traits. Noted the same thing. That second only to pulmonary complications or neurological disorders people were. disoriented. psychotic. Paranoid. Other People Alvis Acts wrote about it in the awakening hypothesized that that they were victims of. Influenza virus. and. We're also finding krona virus today as many. Complications Tint You know. An autopsy reports one thousand, nine, hundred and actually found changes in the brain. Caused, either directly or indirectly by the virus, somehow crossed the blood, brain, barrier or toxins it. Be mean system might have been something I'm not sure exactly what the explanation is. There were physical manifestations in in the rank. And, in Wilson did get influence a while. He was negotiating the peace treaty and had A. Severe! Attack A. Very high temperature. Doctor actually thought initially he'd been poisoned. Gastrointestinal symptoms, which was not uncommon with nineteen eighteen, not that uncommon today with virus. Anyway. Everyone around to noted changes and his thinking. Whether Woods Irwin Hoover who is White House usher are Herbert Hoover? They are. Bir, SI-. They all said his mind wasn't functioning properly. A never seen him like this is a very hard time for him And prior to in our literally couldn't remember an afternoon decisions major decisions made. Before. In prior to is illness. He had been adamant and insisting. That the peace treaty include A. Fourteen points most of the principles that he had articulated as to why the United States it ended the war. What he'd called the Peace Without victory. In WanNA punish Germany. And you know clemens, though Golden, pro, German and so forth and so on. Clements nickname Stanley was the tiger. After. He said he's actually still negotiating for. He's recovered from his sick bed. In this weekend state in mentally. Not Up to it. And he gave in on everything pretty much everything to clemenceau through a bone in the League of nations. That's the only. Surviving Element! Of the fourteen points. I. It was enough that you know. He had entered Paris a hero to the World Keynes called him. The greatest fraud are. A dozen of his top aides to whom went on to become secretaries of state. Net in disgusted. Decide whether they would resign on mass. Half of them did resign have decided not to, but you know the disillusionment the discussed. Treaty Wilson himself said if he was Germany. Wasn't sure it would China. You know. It's possible that. He might have caved in on everything. Even if he had not gotten sick. because he cared so much about the League of Nations. and. Maybe Clemenceau would have insisted enough, but you know Wilson was is stubborn. WHO's in obsessive personality and not given to compromise on anything? You probably could have gotten something like the treaty through the Senate creating the League of Nations if he'd been welded, make some compromise in that. That was not his personality you. You were for him or against him. At any rate. You know we don't know what would have happened. All we know is what did happen. He did get sick. He was disoriented. He was weak physically and mentally. And unable to reason. And he did get. Yeah. That was a major contributor to. The War Second World War. Yeah needed fascinating story. Thank you for for for retelling portions of it there John. I don't WanNA fast forward ahead. Two lessons from that experience for today and actually John You don't want it. Look at somebody who so steeped and the conclusion of your book is so precious as to again written in four is so precious What would likely come what the next pandemic might look like even its origin, and the reasons behind it. I'm curious when you saw this beginning to mount as somebody with much more than passing knowledge in an interest in this out hundred the way in which you you operated. Did you How how long did you wait before you started quarantining yourself I'm curious if you're just being so steeped in this if you had deeper recognition than than others around you. On the Middle January, it was pretty apparent that this was going to be a worldwide pandemic. I and I actually sat down. I was sitting in an airport aboard. In I remember, it pretty well was my mother's birthday. I was coming back In Like January twenty eighth or something decide while nobody else's written. UH, so. Our righted and op-ed, saying that this thing was the working title was. This virus cannot be contained, although is ended up being published. By The Washington Post as question again. This virus be contained. Probably not I decided to who am I. Punches a little bit. But. It was very obvious I thought to anybody understood anything about these things. Had, no special knowledge does what I was reading newspapers. I wasn't getting any other reports And I was puzzled from the beginning that the government wasn't. Taking more aggressive action, I remember sending a draft of that op. Ed to Mike Oester home. Whose name you probably rack, recognize one of most. Frequently? Breached lay quoted. Experts on these kinds of things probably the leading expert, I'm Bandanna. Preparedness in the country Mike good friend of mine, and I sent him on draft. I said you know I mean what's going on here. You know they say there is no community transmission the United States. It says well. They're not testing how we know. That was a major mistake and you can't blame for that one. the initial guidelines were well below White House decision, making and germs of to test in terms of I live in Orleans. Mardi gras clearly Contributed to spread. In this city. For a brief time, New Orleans had the highest risk fast growth rate in the world. But at at the time of Mardi Gras, which is not just a couple of days several weeks on process. You know I didn't do anything because I didn't think there was any community transmission I was quite prepared to the quarantine. Myself but there's no need to do it if the virus is in in your community. Obviously I was mistaken. We now know it was. Many places in the United States by Margaret's was February twenty fifth. Once once it did surface, I've been pretty good. I'm trying to protect. I'm over here over seventy. I know I don't like it right. All supposed to smile. Thank you. So my wife is too, so where concerned, fortunately we don't have any other underlying conditions other than our age. But. I did know and. You know it comes down to fouling the public health guidelines and. And calm. I mean complying with You know I guess I've written to op-eds for the Times into for the post All of essentially conveyed the same message. Great Irony here! Is That we can. We can't control it. We can sort contain. Countries around the world. Including Western societies. have been able to do that. and. We're not. Doing you know as far as I'm concerned we've got. We don't statistically have the worst record in the world. Probably the UK does. In terms of per capita deaths. Sweden's ahead of US per capita deaths you know there are experimenting with their heart immunity, which is not going very wells lesson. Ten percent of the population has been exposed. And as I said they're on a per capita basis, lead the world and our lead US I think they're second to the UK. You know the lesson. came out in nineteen, eighteen to lessons And when the Bush administration past seven billion dollar bill for pandemic preparedness, bioterrorism stuff like that part of that. Planning process to figure out what to do. If endemic struck and I was part of the early stages of good that process, not the detail writing of the plans, but the conceptualizing. What I would always say in every meeting was tell the truth. That is the number one lesson from nine thousand nine hundred. And you know I close the epilogue book. There have been four different epilogues Nellie. Are afterwards a Lisa last. Age or sows in the same. You Save lives, and you maintain order. If you let people know what to expect to what's going on and including what you don't know. It didn't do that in nineteen eighteen. Because we're a war wasn't in Wilson's self interest, but he did think it was in the national interest. Right now the truth is not untold from the White House I and it is going to kid has killed people, and it's GonNa continue to kill big. There are countries where they delve. A Singapore. There was outright panic initially their prime minister. gave an extremely informed. Candid. Transparent being a operative word these days speech calmed everything down. You know Singapore hasn't been project. They've had for other outbreaks, but they've daytime pretty well. South Korea the same thing. Germany the same thing. Merckel had a seventy seven percent approval rate. Highest of her of her career by a wide margin because she was cantered, let a let everything hang out there and they Germany did not have such a great start in terms of testing and traipsing, but they caught up rapidly. And in this country. You all know what does happen it's. Incomprehensible to me. One of our audience members, the chief information officer of a major technology company had a question for John About transparency is audience member made the point that if you're transparent whether the news is good or bad, people will know what to do, but there appears to be a lot of opaqueness in the government's communications with the American public is audience member asked about the psychology behind that, and how that squares with John's earlier comment that if we're transparent authoritatively than the right outcomes will happen in the general population. To oversimplify. You've got. It's become a partisan issue. If you know is made a huge thing out of it, you know I was taught into congressman several congressman last night in a Texas Congressman told me that there is a bar. In his desk. where? They will not let you in if you wear a mask. It's become A. You know. Statement of your masculinity although the mean. I don't know femininity would be but. If you're you know people wearing? Another congressman was saying he was wearing a mask. Cross pass someone else wearing them ask. The other guy said you're a democrat. To be that way, but the mixed message Jane. Has I confused and then and helped in terms of CDC initially also saying, don't wear masks and then reversing itself. A? On the particular issue of masks. That's. been a problem But. For months trump. Was trivializing it. Then was perceived as an and you know so as Fox. It was perceived as a partisan cloy. Presidency So. Even though the information is, and then they started questioning the death toll, saying that those aren't really accurate that their phone numbers and yesterday dance rights piece in The Wall Street Journal saying don't worry about it. There's no second way it's all over gone by the media. So If you're not particularly informed if you're watching, Fox and you're not gonNA, take this nearly as seriously. Now. That is an over-simplification. There's a lot more to it than that. I'm part of a messaging trying to figure out how to reach people and we've got folks in that group from ogilby research in Pailin hair who are extremely sophisticated. In behavioral science and you know they can give you all sorts of subgroups and personality types, and so forth, and so on now you reach each woman. Some of them are liberals But I think that the main over well over weaning, that's right work. problem has been the white. House is when he says one thing. I mean donny cheese got death threats. Y-! Y You know have not half, but several public health state public health commissioners have left their jobs and last couple weeks because of the pressure on them, and and sometimes people outside their homes sometimes just email threads sometimes burble Abusir tied up. Why is that the case now because? They haven't been backed up by. Authority. And that authority is White. House You know I? Think had you done that? To me, I think the dumbest thing trump is done as a politician is his handling of this I mean this could have handed him re-election. If he'd gone out there and taking charge aggressively. I think he would have the approval ratings that miracle add you know in the first state, people rally around the leaders in crisis I and if you recall initially, he had this highest approval ratings of his presidency. Shortly after the country closed down. When he said we're at war with the virus. I. But that approach on lasted provide eight or nine days. And then he started slip backwards and the Hydroxy Clark Wayne and. Everything else so that that's. Why I think the. Message has been clear as to what you should do, but not everybody believes. May. Believe that that's what you should do. But. For either loyalty to the White House. Or they don't think it's that serious and it's overblown you. Don't think it's necessary. And that message has not consistent. Another audience member, the digital intact chief of made a real estate company, asked how John saw the current pandemic, playing out in his prognosis for our country in terms of what to expect going forward. She also asked whether he he would consider writing a book about the current pandemic. LAST QUESTION I! A few weeks ago I would have said absolutely not. I'm in the middle of working on another book. I'd have to suspend work on that. But more recently you know. I'm not committing to it, but it's it's. It's a possibility. In terms of Prognosis I'M NOT SURE! Right noses for what in terms of scientists. As I'm sure you're all aware particularly. Given. What Peter! Spent much of his time doing. Technology and so forth. Practically every lab in the world is shifted its focus on exaggerating but still. You, know! They're all everybody's. covid nineteen. I. There is more sharing of information. Than there has ever been. A between normal way competing. Scientists and I'm sure you all know. Scientists can be as competitive anybody else. Yours more interdisciplinary work now. Than there has ever been on any other subject. You know people trying to solve the problem. I I'm not a scientist, but I'm on Google Group of. Over two hundred signed his in over thirty countries. Every WANNA boom went pretty much. Every one of whom is published in nature you know. A very very cop journal. And you know just the trading of information. On these emails and the collaboration there is extraordinary and. I've talked to some folks it you you see. About introduced supplying a things going on there, physicists. Applying they are just looking at the problem. They look at things differently in a in applying their knowledge Not by office this, but physicists physicists. So in the science that's similar to what happened. In nineteen eighteen, and you know we made incredible progress erratically. And, of course, we have many more tools on hand nineteen eighty. Now if you were asking about what I think, the course of the diseases. You know I don't know because it depends on what we do. The viruses and going anywhere. Susceptibility is more important than seasonality I think we're now. It's ninety degrees here in New Orleans. It's ninety degrees in Texas or more ninety degrees in Arizona. Florida. I I wrote A. Piece in the I guess it was the times in late, April I. This also co elected A study with Oester Home Mark Lips a Harvard epidemiologist. Saint largely the same thing. Ninety five percent of the population, still susceptible to the virus. It's highly transmissible. And, although viruses respiratory viruses. Can to be able to survive less long in high temperatures outside the body. Than in low temperatures. That's true probably true with this virus, although we don't know for absolute certainty. In addition in winter people are indoors instead of outdoors. Osso you get respiratory diseases in much warm winter than some, but was sought to high percentage of population susceptible than. I don't anticipate a significant drop off in edited in a disease, and as you know as I just said it's already in the nineties throughout the south in. We're saying plenty of spread We. Never really had a first wave. We stop the first wave. We probably have half a million at least half a million dead today in the United States. But we intervened. By stopping it. That, you know kept so much of the population susceptible. The virus is still gonNA work its way through the population sooner or later. Until we get good. Therapeutic drugs are vaccine. If. We don't get those vaccine for four years, although much more optimistic, there's no reason to think it'd be anything like that will end up with sixty or seventy percent of the population exposed the virus infected by the virus. It'll just take a lot. If, we don't intervene at all. We could get to that number. insect sponsored than monster. Something like that. We are interviewing. We're not intervening in the way we were. On April first. But we are still trying to intervene. You know it now looks like the virus is not all that easy to catch. It's you know. Somebody. Sneezes right on your yet. You're you'RE GONNA. Get a pretty heavy viral load. but if you're walking pass somebody on the street. That's not that's pretty low risk off Mites in other words, things like doorknobs. That seems to be lower risk than we originally for beer. There are two studies. One said twenty percent of those infected respectful responsible for eighty percent of the gates's and other, says ten percent. They're responsible for eighty percent of the cases. You know if you can I D and we know from SARS Moore's some people shed more virus than others. Trouble finding an identity and and getting. On in addition, other super spreading events occur are from. Situations rather than an individual consumes shed web, Iras. Say in terms of actual projections. To quote my my op Ed. I would see not so much. A series of waves in a second wave as I would see a series of swells. Within, occasional, angry white cap. How high that swell gets? Really depends on what happens in that particular community. Living in New Orleans you know another analogy would be could see hurricane storm surge. If we really screw up. You know the the. Piece that I the the study that I co author with. oostrum in. Lipstick Talked about three scenario else one very similar to what I just described one. Really a huge wave coming in the fall. A, which personally I think is less likely a I guess a point of raising it in that study. was you have to prepare for the worst case? In another little bit. Essentially the same thing is is swell site. Know slight difference shopper. So in terms of the course of the disease. Right, now I'm less optimistic than I was. Because of the number is coming out of Texas. Florida Arizona and so forth a pragmatic California. But you know you can still. To a significant extent, protect yourself. An expert import. I think maybe in right now. Best case would be if things got bad enough. In some of the states that are now seeing significant growth. That could remind everybody. That it's not over. And they may rededicate themselves to social, distancing wearing the masks over and so on. And a realistic worse cases that doesn't happen and we get a really really. Big outbreak again. It can be regional. Have to be national. And you can probably still protect yourself, but it's or if there's more community transmission. John Thank you so much. We really appreciate you joining us afternoon for a stimulating conversation very interesting that you're both about your a indepth research that led this really phenomenal book for those who haven't read it with great influenza is certainly worth your time as well as for sharing your your perspectives on what might be ahead for us in immigrant brand crisis, but we really appreciate your time and your insights. You're very welcome. Thank you -joyed. Thanks for tuning in, please join me on Monday when my guest will be deep Lonnie. The chief digital officer of Mars.

United States influenza Woodrow Wilson John Kerry John New Orleans White House Europe Texas Germany seasonal influenza Peter Hi congressman scientist chief information officer federal government Los Angeles Timothy Cosby Single Strand
Nasdaq's CEO on capitalism amid coronavirus


36:08 min | 1 year ago

Nasdaq's CEO on capitalism amid coronavirus

"The talk to politico money. I'm Ben White and I'm working remotely you might be working remotely so politico hosting live conversations on zoom and today I'm joined over zoom by Adena Friedman. She's the CEO of Nasdaq. Talk about the wild ride. The markets have been on the last two months the economic recovery from Cova Nineteen and what more the federal state governments might be doing to help us reopen. Dina Good Morning. Thanks for joining us. Learning it's great to be here. Good to see you over zoom if not live look forward to when we can all gather again together hopefully relatively soon so let's start with markets. It's on everyone's mind. Obviously you're not the chief. Market strategist or chief economist. There In fact you running the whole show but I want to you. Something that you know is on a lot of people's minds and that's what seems like kind of a disconnect between the underlying economy the terrible jobs numbers. We're seeing the rise in unemployment. What are going to be terrible. Gdp numbers starting this week and then even worse in the second quarter and yet markets are doing remarkably well a pretty well yesterday and have come off lows pretty significantly So my question to you. Is there a fundamental disconnect between markets right now and the underlying economy? Do you think that we have to recognize that? The equities markets in particular are really future ranted so when when equity analysts and investors consider a companies in what they're fundamentals are and what their prospects are for the future. It's really the future that drives a lot of equity values. So that's number one number two. Is that there There's your there's a clear distinction you can see the markets between companies. That are weathering this twice as well and companies that are deeply impacted by the prices. So I do think that you are seeing a distinction in egg returns and valuations based on business models and how people are gathering through this and then the third thing is the impact of all of the government actions whether fiscal stimulus and the monetary stimulus. And how that impacts people's access to capital their ability to manage through this and make sure that they can frankly whether through it By getting access to capital they need to manage through the crisis right now. Yeah I was GONNA say I mean it makes sense to me. That companies like Amazon and Netflix would be doing really well since. We're all still getting our Amazon packages delivered and like everybody else. Binging Netflix and Amazon prime at night. But then you know it makes a little less sense that Some other companies might be doing as well as they are wondering. You mentioned the Fed and its significance. involvement in pumping liquidity into the economy and helping to maintain orderly markets particularly in debt markets. But obviously helping the equity markets to what part of the rise in stocks do you think is attributable to but the. Fed has done. Yeah it's hard for me to be able to give a blanket answer that question but I certainly think that the fact that the stepped in to make sure that they are providing equity into the critical aspects of Connie whether that's the treasury's in Municipals mortgage-backed securities Commercial paper all of those actions. That they're taking are creating a sense a- liquidity which means that then I think investors are feeling confidence that if a choose to Get into stock or get into an instrument. They know that they will have the liquidity there to manage their investment going forward. I also think that obviously a low interest rates are creating an ability for companies to raise capital that they need to raise at very low rates. Which then is helpful towards their overall equity value because at lower cost of borrowing so. I think all of those things are kind of in in combination creating a son of lift in terms of the overall sentiment. But I do think it does come down also to business models so I if you look at the healthcare industry. Nasdaq is the home. About Ninety. Four percent of all is tech. Companies in healthcare is one of our our great segments within within are listed companies and Dave. Many of them have done quite well because frankly their business models aren't necessarily disrupted him if they're a biotech company looking to do research on a treatment that's a long term proposition. Investors recognized that and can reflect that appropriate in their value whereas if you are in some of these industries that are heavily impacted. I think first of all. There's the the hit that they're gonNA get just from the short term. An investor has a slightly different us. Helen the last. But you know what's the short-to-medium term impact on their business against the fact that the government is providing them some some cover and some capital to make sure that they can manage through that and I think that's helping lift the executive values knowing that they do have the government To help them help them weather. The storm right and there was some question. I write about this today on politico if anyone wants to go and look at it. The idea that there may not be another big federal stimulus in this maybe some additional aid to states and local governments. But there's going to be a big fight in Washington over. How big the next Support Package has to be with Republicans to worry about debt and deficit not wanting to go big again and counting on the fact that this reopening that the president is pushing pretty hard and that Republicans are invested in that we can kind of pretty quickly and safely reopen states as conditions merit. But there's no guarantee that that's going to be successful and that we don't get fresh outbreaks of covert nineteen That might require a big federal response. I mean when you think about risks to markets and the possibility that we could get you know a real reversal What worries you The most like there are people who fear that you know stocks. Run UP A lot. If we start to get bad news on how the reopening is going. There's a long way to fall from there. How do you think about that well? First of all we're in unchartered waters whether it's the government having to manage through circle at seventy manage through it. We're all in on wars right now so. I think that there are plenty of things to be concerned about in terms of how you're managing through that on but the thing that I think everyone's most focused on is. How do we create a sustainable recovery? And how do we bring people back together? And how people to start living their lives again and allow the economy kicked back into some sort of fear on in a way that does not create of the of the the shoot nature of what we can dealing with over the last several weeks so. I think that there's going to be a lot of caution should be a lot of conservative but also there's a much more awareness now and and I think that's the one thing we all have to recognizes. We were going through our daily lives. Free Unaware of what this virus was with the toll. It was taking and how fast spreading. It's an invisible enemy really and so I think. Now we are starting to make that enemy more visible. We need to continue to get it so that it's much more visible testing whether that's a testing for illness itself for testing for antibodies. I think that's one of the critical next steps that is is being taken to make sure that we can start to bring this enemy away. That will help a lot because it'll moderate behavior that just also just the general awareness is gonNA moderate behavior so I think that help us make it so that is less likely. We're going to have as a shooting issue As we have right now but the key is is diligence patients on and inconsistency from the state to make sure that we try to do this in a way that says you know frankly as uniform as possible recognizing the state is in slightly different condition. Right now yeah well. Let's talk a little bit about comfortably with reopening. I mean obviously. It's up to state governors and city mayors to a large part to decide when to relax social distancing and all the rest of it but a lot is going to be on CEOS like you to decide when it say for employees to come back to the workspace. How they come back to the workspace and that's obviously a digital marketplace. You all are pretty adept I would imagine at working remotely And I imagine you had a decent experience with that but when you think about When it's time to get people back to market site In Manhattan or other Nasdaq locations. What's going to make you feel comfortable to do that? First of all Nasdaq is a global business. So we have offices in thirty countries around the world and each country's GonNa have its own situation. How best to bring our employees back into the office provide the technology to over one hundred markets around the world. So making sure that we can continue to offer that break service that we offer. We've been able to do that very successfully from as well as running our own markets or come home environment so we do not have to rush ourselves back into the office. Ninety eight percent of our employees are working from home today. We are successfully. Managing markets were successfully managing the technology and data analytics capabilities for our clients around own. So we can be a little bit more patient potentially than other companies in the context of what we're going to be looking for number one is certainly You know the infection rates and the death rates declining the government's making a formative statements that either states or countries can reopen and then on top of that creating a transfer public transportation that allows for proper social distancing as well as it should reopen schools and other public services that make it possible for employees to go back to work and then once they're in the work environment we will create a social distancing environment within the workplace which means that we will not have all of our employees at the same time so we will likely reestablish the split team environment that we had before we went to her home and we will figure out ways to make it so that our employees feel that they have a safe work environment in the office but again we can be patients. Not A re company has the luxury of having that patients and so what we have been in with. We've been working with the Business Roundtable and organizations to try to come up with a set of standards or essentially best practices that companies can follow. Can help them establish the right way forward in terms of bringing people back to work. I want to talk about your interactions. With the trump administration. The president has obviously been convening lots of different business and bringing in CEO's and really focusing on the reopening aspect of this. I also WanNa ask you after that How satisfied you are in general with the federal response from the start of this virus. A lot of criticism that Warnings were ignored in January and February. And we got a really late start on addressing cove at nineteen but Have you been in consultation with people in the White House on the reopening process? And if so kind of who are you talking to so our primary in reactions are actually with regulators so we have active dialogue with the SEC. Primary regular here in the United States and with the F. Assays in your on so we are really more engaged. With afraid season we are specifically The administration we work with a larger in industry organizations like the Tiki the chamber and others to have a proper interaction with your instruction then we do have interaction with the Department of Homeland Security and others to make sure that we are have access to the office are critical function within the United States on the economy so we've been interacting more in that context than specifically you're talking about. I think that We Are we definitely are having our voices heard through the right channels to make sure that he will understand what it takes to maintain the markets. Keep them open and safe. Keep them operating the right way. I'm in working with the financial industry to make sure we're creating the right environment for the markets during this challenging time and then back to the question of the overall Federal Response. The main critiques There are a lot of critiques of the Trump Administration. How it's handled this Unprecedented or not unprecedented. But once one hundred year virus contagion And that we could be in a better place now had The president kind of heeded warnings early in his intelligence briefer and other forums that this was going to hit the United States. It was gonna hit it hard. We could have prepped Testing earlier we could have been social distancing earlier. We got a lot done a lot of things differently. That would have made this look like a very different situation as some other countries have done. How do you think the president's been incredibly impressed with how the government in general has acted to this situation? Meaning the fiscal stimulus the monetary stimulus. I think have been extremely oppressive. I mean you're having to get fifty people to agree on a huge spending bill and I think that they've done the right thing of focusing on small businesses and individuals on as well as some of those really critically hit industries with fiscal stimulus. The monetary must've been unprecedented in terms. Of what the. Fed has done to support the economy. So I think the reaction has been really impressive. I think the general this is as you said once one hundred year event. It's never happened in our lifetime or in pretty much anyone's lifetime. That's pretty much anyone seventeen but I do think that it's it's impossible to know exactly looking back is always easier to say things that could have been done differently. But in when you're in the middle of it. I do think that people are doing their best to try to find a pass Lords. The one area that we are very focused on is increasing testing capacity. Because we do believe that the best way to fight this enemy since we don't really have a lot of weapons yet we don't have. We don't have a back seat is to bring this enemy into the light. Make it so that people can know what status at any time so that they can manage their lives and keep other people saved in the process. I think that's the most important next step is to really ramp up that testing capacity in very away. Yeah do you think we're anywhere close to where we need to be in terms of testing to really successfully reopen states and companies. That doesn't feel to me like we are despite some of what the President says his press conference that on aggregate sure we test more than every other country but per capita we certainly. Don't how comfortable do you feel with the level of testing where we are now? Yeah I mean I think I tend to focus on with medical professionals are saying and I think in terms of the counseling. We've gotten. I think that we do need to ramp testing whether or not we can bring people back together and create other another environment that allows us to start to to reconvene is one thing but to make it so that everyone has that confidence and we can continue to really bring life back. You know everyone back into a normal cadence. I do. The testing needs to ramp considerably on. You've saw a stat that one of the professional said that we should be looking at increasing our customers by about two hundred thousand today and I think that's about a And you're right. In terms of other countries countries that have been very aggressive and successful so far at least in managing virus have had very high testing rates per infected person and so we need to find a way to kind of bring testing rates up significantly per infected person. And I know that's a huge focus of throughout the government right now. I want to get into some more. Nasdaq specific things and market specific things in a minute. But I do want to look at the broader macroeconomic picture for a moment and get your thoughts on it Obviously we're going to have first read on First quarter GDP tomorrow. We'll probably get something like you know minus five six second quarter. Terrible MENACE THIRTY MINUS FORTY The optimists people in the White House Say we'll get great third and fourth quarter numbers and we really could have a v-shaped Recovery I'm not particularly in that camp thinks it'll be that easy How quickly do you think this economy can recover from? What is a pretty dramatic and shocking? Hit like we haven't seen since the Great Depression. I think we have to assume that there will be. I have to say a slow ramp to the recovery than than Avi I. I are a lot of elements and aspects of life. That have been completely disrupted and they in everything kind of works together right so our our own tourism industry is big economy. Obviously energy is a big part of Konami as well as consumer retail. I want to be able to go down and good my favorite restaurant and my husband go. There's a toy story nearby. That has a lot of great games and we love to go in there and and enjoy that and going to feel you know. I want that that back part of my life to reopen. We also have to feel like we can do it in a safe way instead. There will be other restrictions that are still on society of the coming weeks and months That will slow that recovery and make it harder for us to kind of get back to the normal capes and certainly it'll take a while before people get back to traveling I think that's where treatments other the next stage of fighting this virus is going to be very important to getting people back into the conference state of a travel in an environment that has got a huge driver of economic growth. So I think those types of things will take a little time and we have to assume that treatments and other Next stage Improvements against the virus and our ability to fight. The virus will be really critical to getting back to that real normal. In the meantime cut new a new normal that exists that will be pretty limited. And I think that's why the recovery based slower than a V. Yeah I should say Dina's joining us from Chevy Chase Maryland this morning which is where I grew up actually grew up on the DC side of Chevy Chase Circle up in New Jersey now in New York for ten years. But you mentioned your favourite toy store in your favorite restaurant nearby. I wonder what they are and whether they were there when I was growing. I bet they were. Actually because it's the same lies at all. I mean the one. That's really close to us is child's play which is just as the store and you know it's just it's a special place like kids it's a magical place for kids but even as adults they have great you know great beams and other things that you go in and they have experts there. It's you know you don't just go and wander around. There are people there who can really they. They've played every game so it's a really great. It's a special part of life. You know those are the types of things that really enrich our lives and we all want those small businesses to first of all sustain themselves through this so I am very pleased to see the fiscal stimulus. That has been put in place helps but I realized that I visit hasn't rolled out exactly perfect but these small businesses really do need our support. Those are the test. That's the part of our lives. We want to return to so we need to make sure there's businesses are there for us to return to them is so I am hopeful that the amount of money that has been given out so far or lent out so far is going to be sufficient. But that's the area there. I think where the government is going to need to continue to find ways sustain this society and up until we can find a way to get people back into stores. Erkersley child's play. I do remember I think opened up of late when I lived there. The restaurant That you love that's nearby well. That was a new one side. I guarantee not been there. But there's an our police avenue which is a nice okay. There's lots of good options around Chevy Chase. These days wasn't always the case. But let's let's let's take into some Nasdaq specific stuff. And I know there was an interesting. Sec statement recently from the Commissioner about the risks of investing in US listed. Chinese firms including with Opaque auditing the risks involved in investing in some of these sort of warning investors about them What were your thoughts about what the SEC said sure well. I think it's first important to note that the US is the home to how many all over the world for a very good reason. Which is that we we are. We are the home where we have diverse and the rich set of investors in the world. You know people who really dedicate their lives to really with retail grocers in and institutional investors who really understand the global economy understandable landscape and can therefore invest in companies Ross at night states successfully but the foundation of our markets. It is one of disclosure And so the. Sec is the is the kind of the bringing together point for this. Luger's in terms of all the regulatory documents that they have to review and they have to manage but it is a bigger ecosystem or not so we have the accounting firms the underwriters and the regulators who all have to come together to create the environment for companies including companies from other other countries. What the SEC. Chairman Clayton stated. I think is is an important first step in acknowledging that we have to find new ways to enhance the disclosures better available for companies from outside the United States to make sure that they are meeting the same standards that we expect companies in the United States. His statements are first step. But I think that the most important next step is for him the SEC to convene all elements of this ecosystem so bring the accounting firms underwriters in the exchanges together with the regulators to say how can we free a better environment for descriptors. 'cause he's given a warning but now we have to solve that problem right. We can't as Lou the warning we have to find a Passover together and it takes all of us together to figure that out because it seems like there've been efforts at warnings before but they haven't had that much impact or investors ignore them or whatever sounds like. You're thinking about more kind of specific action. Yeah I think warnings our first step but but I saw your business back on individuals and the brokers to kind of figure out how to keep those things when they're relatively general in nature as opposed to saying okay now we've established the warning as almost a precursor to action so that we as a as a system so the as a regulator as well as all of the people who are inputs into this process we together need to find a path forward so that we don't have to be issuing warnings that we just improve the system overall Gotcha. We're going to get to a couple of twitter questions since we've got five or six minutes remaining these things go really fast. But I I WANNA give a shout out to my colleague Kelly who knows a lot about market structure than I do and sent a couple of good questions in Hello Kelly. I hope you're watching. The first one was when will Nasdaq apply to do direct listings and involve primary capital race? Like NYC is doing. I ended spotify lawsuit. Change your idea whether they're a good idea. Well today actually Direct things are not available for primary. Meaning you can't raise capital through reckless thing whether that's on Because she's not available so that requires a regulatory change that the SEC would have to consider and approve that would allow for companies to go in and actually raise cup with reckless thing and there are some concerns around that in terms of establishing a process that gives investors proper access to information first of all but also to the potential pricing ranges. And other things that they get when when he goes for an IPO process. So there's a lot of logic consider before a primary Has Done but secondary issues is what we call direct listings where you're not raising capital. Your your market are available and Nas Again. Your and we do execute reckless things And so I think that is something where we are looking at. How do we continue to enhance that experience? Both for the company and the investors. And it'll be interesting to see how many of this come forward in the context of this situation where companies may have been well-capitalized with four. But but they may be looking to seek to raise capital on going forward whereas may not have been thinking to do that on before Situation started so the next several months in probably through next year. You'll you'll see. Ipo's being the predominant way that people come to the public mark Gotcha The other question she sent was actually one that was on my mind to and that's about circuit breakers and the question is there's been talk of private investment firms The effectiveness of marketwide circuit breakers kicked in During that big sell off in March when we the low on March twenty-third does NASDAQ WANNA see those Changes or should they stay where they are? Are The circuit breakers. That are in place now sufficient Where they do they need to change. So one of the things that we actually experienced For the first time ever in March so while we put them in years ago really on the back of Osh crash on and that was an industry improvement that was made out of trash and I think it was actually important. Industry and permits may which is to allow for the market to come together and take a pause when needed I I actually agree with the spirit of it. I agree I think we executed them well so meaning as we actually dmed as they were designed the executed. I think now is a good time. Though we've had some experience with them to look back and say okay when they affected when were they not effective the one the one on moment when a survivors it was triggered that I think people are are going back and saying was this the right. The right time for retrigger was literally triggered something like seconds after the open so we kind of knew going into the open. It was going to be a down open the minute we opened the stock. Market's it all it. All kind of the market dropped more than seven percent and they figured almost immediately. That's where I think we can look back. And say is there a a period of time where we have mark said aloud? Before we we use the the circuit breaker types of things will will all be looking at together But I do believe that the circuit breakers in general are ineffective means to create a pause to allow investors to recalibrate their portfolios against obviously a significant downward shift in the market sentiment and allows them to re re re shift their their portfolios to reopen. And we did see that. After the circuit breaker triggered the declined did slow or stops they can be affected but we should obviously be looking at how we can improve them right. So you're basically saying that if you see futures indicated you know way down. Everybody knows that we're going to have a big drop at the open in. That drop materializes maybe a delay in the circuit breaker to allow some time to see how it shakes out. If it continues to plunge obviously you want a circuit breaker in there but having one that's almost immediately after the open might not make sense. It actually created systematically you know for us. It was fine but for the firms around. That are all connected. I think that that was more challenging. And also we have different trigger levels. So there's a seven percent I think ten and thirteen so we can look different sugar levels based on time of day. Scott couple of their twitter questions. Before you let you go about your day One of them is what are the most important things that businesses can do to get the economy back on track. Well the one thing. I've been incredibly impressed by. Is this notion of what I call cooperative. Capitalism so businesses have in. My opinion really stepped up. In this crisis you've seen companies that have changed over their entire manufacturing abilities to to manufacture ventilators and masks. And they haven't been asked to do that. They've done it because they know it's the right thing to do. And of course the the rationale is to save lives in economy. Kick back in gear so they have a dual purpose to their goals but stepped up. You've seen other other companies. I A significant philanthropic engagement Within community organizations and making sure that people are are get access to food and capabilities. I've seen you've seen the network providers do a lot to make it sit at their network abilities available to all all segments of the population on. There's I read about why bursary store that was buying up excess food from farmers to go to give to food banks. There's a lot a lot that the companies are coming together and they're doing really amazing. Things should mention of the healthcare industry. The level of collaboration across health right now is is unprecedented. And you hear that among researchers developers vaccines manufacturers of of all of the equipment that we need as well of course to health professionals in all working together. It's pretty remarkable. Actually how businesses are coming together to try to find a way to bring the economy back so that that level collaboration cooperation is amazing. I think as we go forward and we start to reopen a different parts of the reopen of different states coming upon businesses to do their best to try to bring people together back together. Safeway because we do want to create a sense of normalcy. We do want to try to bring people into back into the environment and I think that's going to be part of the responsibility. Business is to bring people back into the offices. Yeah here's another one on the federal response and the election twitter user asks has the Election GonNa play into the economic recovery and will the party's able to collaborate to create the necessary stimulus over the next six months. I mean this is going to be the next fight in Congress. The extent to which we need care is two point. Oh And if we have one how big is it and what's in it? I think that everybody agrees you're going to have to plus up the P P P small business loan since they're gonNA run out again this week maybe within a couple of days It's obviously something had problems. But at least has gotten money flowing out Some degree to small businesses. So that I would think you think part of a stimulus but what else do you think we need? And do you think we're going to get one What else from federal fiscal stimulus level? You think we need to see. Yeah so first of all. There is obviously a lot of ideology that exists in politics. Who stays but when it's really needed we have seen the parties come together and in in a very short period of time and collectively find a paso or to create a similar for the economy and and obviously the urgency of the matter of the the crisis. Situation that we're in is is really causing them to come together in a way that we wouldn't ordinarily see but we have to have some faith that they will continue to find a pass to putting money where it really is needed. I think one of the areas that we're going to have to focus on our states themselves so I do think that the state there are states that are going to be extremely impacted by this tax. Revenue is going to be extremely impacted by it And their ability to continue to fund all of the work. They need to do at the same time that they're having significant. Revenue Shortfall is going to be something that the federal government is going to have to to consider in addition to continuing to really focus on the small businesses and focus on the impacted workers. I think those are to me. The states to small businesses and the impact workers will be the areas that the federal government are most equipped and best equipped to be able to continue to support in the months ahead. And I just I do have faith that they will. They will do their jobs because they know how for it is for all of them frankly to even even going through this election cycle. We're GonNa let you go on a second. I WanNa ask you one last thing which I try to ask everybody who comes on here and that is to tell us what their covert nineteen life is like. Walk US quickly through a day in the life of Adena Friedman and how you go about Running giant company. And at the same time you know walking your dog and doing all the rest of the stuff that we're doing tell us what your daily life is like. Sure so I start off very early. I get up and exercise. I have a Palestinian and it's a thank goodness. I have one of those so I'm able to exercise in the morning and then have very much a normal routine in the morning like half. I'm at the office. It's just that once I'm dressed. I just walk across the hall instead of instead of getting into a car So so that's the the beginning of every day we do start off our day everyday actually with senior executives call. We are always on videoconference site kind of staring at the screen mode. I do like to see and I want everyone to see us all together. I do like the fact that we're in our own environments. I would have to say. I think the team is closer than it's ever been because of the fact that we pure into each other's lives a little bit more. We're engaged every single day and we're making sure that we're managing the company together In the in the best we can and then of course I go through the day. I have a lot of client. Calls calls on specific initiatives state. Focus on our future We have very resilient business. We're very fortunate on the businesses. A very resilient business we provide software and services data is well as our markets and they are operational and they're all critical says to our client so leaving with to manage through this well so we are still making sure we're planning for a future or executing against the future vision of the company And that's how we focus and then at the end of the day I have both my adult sons are home and so frankly. It's been very nice to have that time with them. We eat dinner together. Every single night. we generally played ping pong or cool after dinner. Nice Nice I come back and get online and finish up. I think it's interesting. I find the same thing in terms of colleagues getting to know them a little bit better over zoom and seeing their dogs and their kids and their houses and connecting in ways particularly somebody works in New York and most of our folks are in Rosalyn. I've gotten to know colleagues better through this than I store. Which is a weird thing when you're locked up in your house anyway. We're totally out of time. I WANNA thank Adena Friedman for joining us. Everyone who tuned into livestream. Everybody who sent twitter questions. We really appreciate it If you're not morning money reader should be you can find it that politico dot com forward slash morning money We're going to continue to do these. Virtual live events across all politicos various different reporting teams. You can always look for those on political live so keep tuning in We really enjoy doing these in Edina. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you very much all right. That's our show. I'm Benway my thanks to Adina Freidman for joining me. Abusir is any race jam. It is our senior producer and Irene. Noguchi is our executive producer. Subscribe to politico money. Wherever you're listening you can follow politicos coverage of the grown virus in politico nightly newsletter. And in morning thanks for listening and stay out there.

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Mason and Ireland HR 2: More Fallout

Mason & Ireland

41:14 min | 1 year ago

Mason and Ireland HR 2: More Fallout

"Hey what's going on. It is Wednesday and Lakers magic tonight at Staples Center Just a while ago a little bit earlier Sam Kennedy. The president of the Boston Red Sox was asked about the cheating scandal. Alex core of course manager. The Red Sox fired yesterday. The cheating scheme was used by the red sox during the two thousand eighteen season which they won the world series title. Here's what Sam Kennedy said. How much do you fear this cheating scandal will tarnish your two thousand eighteen world series wet? I'll take the directive from the Commissioner's Office office. We're not going to discuss it. But again we would. Since the question's been repeated I'll repeat that we would ask that people fans ends reserve judgment until we know what the MLB investigation reveals. But as we stand here today do you still believe you beat the dodgers Rogers Ferron. Swear absolutely yes. We know Sam a little bit. He he was. Larry Lucchino top lieutenant back when Larry's to becoming the show on. There's no way he can know if they'd be through the value may know what's in that report and we don't but let me bring up. Something has to do with his baseball stuff. You've been beating the drum. They've gotTA gotta be tougher on the players to the players. Not a thing and I think baseball has made a mistake by telling players. You can't say I completely agree green. We haven't heard from Altoona we haven't heard from Bregman we haven't heard from anybody. From the dodgers. We even heard from any of the players on the other teams about what the Astros going. Now now I am and if you've listened to the show over the years you know this I'm completely against being balls and thrown at players but you may Are Old School. Used to work in baseball. And you have taught me over the years and other baseball people have taught me over the years. The way scores get settled is And and I'm thinking Greg. He's on the phone but I'm thinking that he's working on your. It trouble ticket. That's exactly what I was doing that. I didn't even know what the hell traders don't I mean. Isn't it safe to assume again. I am morally against ever Throwing a baseball on purpose. Somebody I think somebody could lose an eye. Eight miles an hour advice mace. You've always taught me. That's how things are marshalled out in baseball. The first time the astros come to town particularly to play the dodgers. Oh Are you imagine aren't. Isn't somebody getting in the ribs. I mean isn't that the way baseball also handles justice if the if baseball this was ten fifteen twenty years ago nothing to the players. I don't do anything. I agree with you on it so if they do nothing. Yup can't I make the argument that they took the Astros and red sox by cheating took money out of the dodgers player's pocket's direct. I mean it's it's as if they walked up to him and took their wallet. I am guessing. Somebody's GonNa get hit aren't they. But I'm guessing guessing that this isn't part of what you're talking about. I'm guessing that the best punishment for the Houston. Astros is is that everywhere they go. They are booed relentlessly one. You're going to see signs everywhere now on I'd that's legacy. I don't know how good Jose Altuve as I mean he won the MVP award when he was cheating. mookie Betts won the MVP award while they were cheating. Who knows so good there who knows it'll be anxious to see how fans vote for them in the All Star game normally altuve is a lock at second base in the American League is now? Here's the other. Here's the other dynamic. That'll be interesting Caesar's put out a list of number of wins teams will have This coming year the Yankees one. Oh two they had the dodgers at ninety ninety nine. They've Astros at ninety seven. Ninety seven wins for the Astros. I think it could weirdly. Have the effect of helping the Astros. The Patriots remember at either deflategate patriots went on a roll. It's US against the world. It's US against the world. It could actually work in their favor. which would suck Yeah I I. I don't think that's the way punishment will be meted out. I do think baseball made a mistake by not penalizing any player now. The one thing that I wasn't thinking of And you know reading more about it. Is that the players in exchange for testimony stony were given immunity in other words. Tell US everything and we won't punish you. That may be the only way they could have gotten to the right. And that's probably the only only way you could doesn't do that interview with the athletic. None of this comes out. No and and and those guys keep on cheating if if Mike Fires doesn't do that interview new AJ. HINCH DYLAN'S A job. Jeffrey Jiving Mike Fires is actually you know. He's probably a pariah in among baseball. I think he's going to go down as somewhat of a hero. I think history is going to be very kind to mike fires. Do you think among other players. He's going to be viewed as a goat or as a hero. I think he's going to be viewed as a rat. We really and nobody likes Iraq. But I think it's unfair because without him we never get to the bottom of this but no he'll like. How do you think there's a difference? I think hosing viewed as a rat but he blew the whistle on on the steroid era. He go back and look at his book he he was one hundred percent. Rose sure yeah and I think history is going to be kind to Jose Canseco but you know the one thing you don't do you and I both loved mob movies. Yeah is you. Don't go against the yeah. It's snatches get stitches right. Mike fire saved everybody. But I think that other you think on some level dodger don't you think Clayton Kershaw is is thankful that Mike fires blew the wishes. But how about the the Astros teammates won the world series. Well I mean among those guys he's going to be viewed as snatch but among the rest of Major League baseball the people who were victims of the Astros cheating and the victims of the red SOx cheating. It's good to know exactly how it went down on the good to know. This never gets fixed next without him. Correct I'm not sure what the domino that fell was that exposed the steroid era. I'm not sure if it was Consejo. I'm not sure if it was the book Shadows and Kennedy Kennedy. I think was had a big you know. Sports illustrated cover story about how his MVP year he was completely rooted out. Yup and then once you know once the first domino fell than all the rest of them fell right. But it's fascinating to me that no players are going to. I heard I was watching earlier today. and Tony and Mike were saying that they think Carlos Beltran has a chance to survive. I think no I think would be nuts too. I think why would you. That will be the first question he gets every day. Yeah Done Don from the first day of Spring Training. How do we know you're not cheating? Do you regret cheating you know. And by the by the way in New York tabloids page six. Yeah not not even paid six the back page. Yeah it's it. I can't keep him okay. And so let's let's let's there's so many branches on the street. Let's examine that branch. All right. You mentioned how many How many Games does Vegas think the Astros are GonNa Win Ninety Seven? Okay and did they. Do you remember what the number was for the red sox. I do not recall the number for the red sox adequate so these are jobs these two jobs and if the mets fire Beltran and three jobs these are jobs that are what they would call in the real estate business. Turnkey right you walk in with a chance to win the division the day you take the job. These aren't rebuilds. These aren't you're looking for a young manager. Who can you know be these are? Do you think Bossa Eighty nine. It's pretty good. Yeah all right do you think. Veteran F- Ruben World series caliber managers are going to be brought into the fold here. Do you think dusty Baker gets a call. Do you think buck showalter alter gets a call because these things are turnkey. I mean it would make sense. Wouldn't it well. I mean at least in. They are talking about promoting bench. Coach's what good does that do. The bench coach coach was was part of it was around. It was part of covering it up was complicit in it. I think they should be required to go outside the organization baseball executive if they do. Isn't it a good day for anybody who's been to the world series as a manager. WHO's not working jobs? Those are great that Houston job is a great job. Yeah they I think the show altered dusty Baker. Their phones have to ring right. I don't think any of those guys get called by the way I agree I agree. I think they're old school. Managers and and Houston is a new school organization. But Thong guys that you probably have never even heard of or former the players that just were recently retired and just kind of go into that most likely getting the job is Joel spot. The bench coach this last year for Ej. Yeah I'm when You know Jeez I wonder if I call. I mean it's weird because you want somebody that knows how to get to the world series but you're right you get somebody that embraces this new school of GM sense down the lineup card right by the and maybe in Houston with no Jeff Liu now the GM Liam Watson down. Now it's his lieutenant. It's the Guy Right under him. No yeah fire to nine top and got fired. No but it's there if they hire from within it's GonNa be that same data driven approach approach. Yeah and that means it's going to be data driven manager. I mean that's the way that organization runs. There is a reason. Why people are hacking into Jeffrey Munoz database? It's because he's got got unbelievable information and analytically. They had. They were the state of the art team in the League. Somebody goes and gets art. How wherever he is commission on a layer just old manager right? Well the old managers who've been in the playoffs right. That's what all those guys have in common. But you've got to indicate data and show. Walter Walter have one world series. You've got to Dave Roberts's be very collaborative. Now they're going to be looking for. We talked about this earlier in the week. Dave Roberts is not the favorite son out here he could get a call and interfering would have to decide whether or not to let him out of his deal and you guys would be okay with that. You guys wouldn't mind I to me. It's it's too late in the game because spring training monitors are about to report. I mean those teams. They start in a month. The I know the second month and we're not going to see any punishment to any players know except maybe Beltran because he was graduated to a manager show. Yes yes In that team the mets has at least has pitching you know they. They aren't completely a dog with fleas. I mean I I think everybody's picking Atlanta to win that division again but the mets could do something they're not terrible dodgers report February the thirteenth which is in less than a month. Today's a fifteen. Yup Yeah Nets are eighty three and a half. Yeah so they could you know that's more above five hundred about five hundred Metzer mets. I think the mets are kind of a mess to be honest with. I think the biggest benefactor of all this is the Yankees because the astros throws in the red sox that to other best teams in the American league just got kneecap right and you wonder if Joe Madden is sees this as an opening you know that everybody thinks the astros are locked to win that division named get Joe Man. You're getting Shohei Ohtani back. You probably don't have enough pitching but you have my trout you you signed Ren d-o-n young which is a huge deal. Maybe an opening for the angels to make some noise. I mean I think the angels can play for a wild card this year. Oh I absolutely think they can. I mean that trout hitting back to back with Ren dawn is going to be in. Maybe Otani is going to be interesting. Getting Yeah I really hope that you put Otani in the middle of those two. Yeah I hoped that they would add another frontline starting pitcher but they didn't or any starting pitcher out. Yeah hidden but you know all those fifty spent their money on rent on all. This turned out to costs so much money. They were crazy crazy numbers that were floating around like our coal was dead. Set on being Yankee and you know Strasbourg ever seriously thought about leaving all of these guys. That are Boris clients. You knew we're going to break the bank. He's just great. Great is job yes he is yes. He is Scott sturt representing sportscasters. We'll both sign up. I will absolutely signed by the way. I'm unrepresented right now. I would definitely sign up with Scott there. You go somebody get hold Scott until more looking. Yeah I'm a big Fan Mason and Ireland. ESPN LA What's the story with your technological problems? Oh my computer doesn't work. Yeah so but I'm just brought my computer from home and the call screen doesn't work so if I call. We don't take a lot of calls but if I call you by the wrong name. It's because I have a call screen. That is now gone. It's red it's out of focus and every fifteen seconds or so it goes to this corporate Greg's Brum I. That's why I was trying to get a ticket for but when I leave. Are you going to go right back to phone calls. Of course and guess we're actually can have guests on the show. The Howard Stern show either of those the book guests like really really good guests. Man We're going to take quality phone calls the reason we don't take calls now. John is because Greg hates eighteen. Okay he doesn't know how to screen call now. He doesn't know how to find the seven doing concept of you hate the callers. I hate the callers. I I love the people with phones. Who Call in? You're such a liar time. That's a liar out of their day. They're busy gangly to contribute to the show and you just shun them. Yeah I don't understand. It serves amazing. What's going to happen? And you hate Michael Thompson and show producers start the show producer Abusir interviews on the air. I think that would be a great fat would be a disaster. I do what do you feel you can bring to the show. I think we should let one one person on twitter audition for the on the air. You guys have fun with it with you and Are saying this. I'm in the I'm in the interviews. You have. We interviewed anybody. Know we have some tomorrow writing a new manager point for honesty right so you have an interview he lied. I'm sure you WANNA show is all about the truth John Truth Allied Hansa Solorio. Nothing you were promoted like three weeks ago. I would when you talk about your promoted three weeks before Christmas. Sure you did whatever but anyway we have two people coming in tomorrow. We have some on Friday. Give me names. I'm not giving you name. I you know I'm gonNA WANNA Google. I'M GONNA stakeout. AMANDAS office can keep an eye on. Who goes in there you should? You said you'll see it. I will ask me about who goes in there. Tell me if this is right or is this not this is this is truth time okay. I was told that we have no say over. Who our producer that is correct correct? Does that make sense when we were talking earlier in the show cup up Shabak yet. No she's not Rob Pelinka Right Mandates Mitch Cup Championship link is very collaborative. He says Lebron in a d well. Who who else fills sales office? Roslin one st humanize and Mitch Cup check does what he wants and leaves Kobe. And instead we've got a dictator says you will take who give you. We'll think about it this way. Your last two producers are the ones choosing for you. Who's going to be here so you think we made no you guys a little bit and what you guys need and want? Yeah as long as it's somebody who wants to take phone calls and can book guests. I'm good first question. Will you take phone calls and will you book. Yeah that's good all right. So here's something my wanted to get to. Let's see we did that. We did that we did that. Oh here's something I wanted to get to tell me if this I'm gonNA tell this story. It's in relation to the to the cheating scandal. The line cheating astros okay so when I was a program director in Toledo Ohio. The Band Milli Vanilli was a gigantic thing. Blame it on the rain and we had We did a the big concert with millie. Finale before after they'd been exposed before okay Nice req- which people don't Know Milli Vanilli turned out. Was Lip synching thinking. It was two bald guy's really saying ninety three too proud to present Millie Bonilla at the Toledo. Sports arena can. We found out three months later. That Vanilla was a fake. They were a fraud there you go. They were a fraud. You know what I did and it was too much fanfare and we got a lot of attention for it. We filed a class action lawsuit against ARISTA records for fraud. We had promoted. This concert hurt. People had paid money out of their pockets to go to that concert and we felt we were entitled for Financial Damages. What happened to suit? Ultimately it was thrown out okay but it went away before it actually got thrown out. So are you suggesting that if baseball fans filed a class action action lawsuit against the Astros of the Red Sox they might get some run. Yes we absolutely might get some run all right now. Let me take it a step further as I mentioned earlier. The dodgers made it to the world series in each of those years. Yes they were. The most aggrieved party essay. Were they also could probably get get together in a class action with the Yankees. Who were playoff team jeers wrecked and say these people Jose Altuve AAC Carlos Correa Alex? Alex Bregman took money from us. Right you get X for winning the World Series you get Y for coming in second. We want the the difference right. Couldn't that lawsuit. I mean it would probably get thrown out eventually but couldn't that lawsuit get some run right. Well there's gotta be somebody ready willing to take this on or you kidding. I mean lawyers are looking for lawsuits. I mean I'm surprised. Hasn't been filed already. Yeah would you be now litigations litigations tough right. You'd have to be like deposed. I all this office out and then okay so I remember when and we were on the air when it happened. Yup David Stern made the unprecedented move of blocking the Crisp Paltry That was one of the darkest days and we would go on the air and we would say you know the Lakers should file a suit. Yes is unprecedented. The Lakers should sue the NBA and ultimately Jeanie and her family decided Jeanie Buss and her family decided. We're in a league or business partners with these people. Even though were extremely mad at the end screwed and by the way we do business with them moving forward was not going to sue them. That was an antitrust violation. And here's why the League owned the New Orleans the Hornets at that point repellent as Davidson would always say. I wasn't acting as commissioner. I was acting as owner of the Pelicans they own them. Which means it is? It absolutely absolutely is antitrust. I always thought that the case should be pursued They elected not to. Do you think the dodgers would play the same card in other other words when you would go to the dodgers for cooperation. Either for the players to be witnesses for Stan Kasten or Andrew Friedman to participate. The day would eventually end up in the same place that genie did and say look the Astros and the red sox are partners of ours were in a league together. We can't deal. I don't think it is fans that would need to drive. It gets fans. I don't think that I don't think that Stan Kasten in in the dodgers willing game against Yeah Houston Astros. But I do think fans could mount an effort And you know what I want more than anything is to just rub. Houston's knows in the embarrassment harassment and the shame of this do they have. No shame aren't as an Astros Fan. How do you feel right now? Well aren't you ashamed that you that you have this stigma sigma and and here's the weird thing Major League Baseball issued this edict that they don't want anybody any players talking about this right or any teams talking about this including the Astros you've covered spring training as a reporter. Yeah aw pretend I'm Alex Bregman our Jose and you get your first shot at me. What are you asking me? Yeah I'm asking you all about this man. This is going to be an and by the way I think there's nothing nothing like and by the way this is how I think that's GonNa go go ahead your report. I'll be Jose altuve. Jose is a how much help did you get during your MVP season from the banging of trash cans and and the Cheating scheme that was outlaid by the League nor Oslo in no that won't work. How about this Major League Baseball prohibits me from answering questions nations about that subject? Now do you think that's going to hold. I don't think it conventionally. Somebody's going to have to talk well. They're all going to spring training. Yeah they're all doing media you're going. It'll be SU surrounded by reporters the entire now trying to formulate an answer my head. I think the best way to do it is to do it. Andy Pettitte did about steroids. Remember when Andy Pettitte either showed up in the Mitchell report or at somehow got linked to that scandal and and they asked him about it and he said Ed we were wrong. We shouldn't have done it and it'll never happen again. Is that does that get him out of it in other Kazmi question asked me any question lasts how much. How much did you get from the cheating scheme? Some and because of that we were wrong. We shouldn't have done it and it will never happen again. What can you say to the teams like the dodgers that you beat using the illegal cheating scheme? I wish we wouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I apologize to them and anybody else that was is affected by this looking back on it it. We just shouldn't have done it. Do you think you would have won the world series without it I do but now we'll never know now. Now nobody's ever going to do the interview. Just when are they going to say they're gonNA THEY'RE GONNA go. NO OBLIGATION GLARE GONNA go no comment. They'RE GONNA go. We're we're. We're not going to address that we're going to we're going to do. They're going to do mark they're going to do the mark. Maguire answer do the Mark Maguire. I'm really I'm not here to talk about the Patsick we'll ever hear. Ah I'm not here to talk about the past. I don't think anybody questions about this year. I don't think we will ever hear anybody with the Astros. Say I'm sorry well. Aj hinch already did. I'm talking about these players and I'm talking about these play. It affects their brands forever. Well it affects the brain. I mean the brands have been unaffected by acknowledging by saying. You're sorry you're basically admitting that you might not have won without it. That's why I don't think anybody will ever apologize yeah. I don't think anybody will ever apology. You read Jason starks column today in the Athletic I did not. I will share some eighteen addresses all the points that you got into Jeff Passan yesterday okay. I'll share some common. Okay Cool Mason and Ireland. ESPN LA. Hey what's going on. It's it's Wednesday. Lakers vs Orlando Tonight Lakers looking to make it ten in a row ten and a roll and John will be there after the game tonight John. That's too bad for the cavs. It's GonNa say you saw but you actually were there for the good half. I was there for the one component. Yeah exactly there have them out by thirty. I think they're GONNA win. And I know Anthony Davis no Ron Rondeau but everybody else expected to play. Yeah good we're giving away. What oh I've got a spot in the L. A. Kickoff event which is at the Commerce Casino this Saturday one hundred seventy five thousand guaranteed not prize pool? And let's see got a very simple easy game We've got the phones loaded up here. We go yes I just have to wait for my screen green to get unblocked and not read and I can tell you that Brian from thousand oaks is online. Hi Brian or guys. Go good man so Brian. I'm looking for the name of a movie. The name of a movie got it. This movie star in. It's it's a gambling bling movie. Robert Deniro Play Sam Ace Rothstein in this nine hundred ninety there you go. Wow that was easy. That's any wins. Hey Hang on man took all your other guys go pound sand. Yeah now you you have argued that not only should major league baseball. Punish the owners and punish the player. Yes there should be some vacating thing. Yes I'm completely in favor of taking the trophy taking the world series rings and taking the title away from the city of Houston okay. So Jayson Stark says that he's been talking talking to people Jason worked for. ESPN for years and years and now he's working for the athletic. Yep He's been talking to people around baseball and they tend to side with you. That more needs to happen but he makes an interesting argument What you're arguing is that? What the Astros did in two thousand seventeen shouldn't count correct okay so he asked this question? What exactly about it shouldn't count would just the results of the world series not count or other series two would the dodgers and be called the winners or would the world series B.? Nobody winning and you've said nobody the world series would be. Nobody went. Okay what about the regular season with those games count yes would those Astros Astros winds count in the history books or would they forfeit every one of those one hundred and one games. They won if they did. With those victories then be assigned to to the teams they played. Then what would you do about the standings. I think all I really care about is the title. Okay how about and again. These are all questions. Tensions out right how about the stats compiled in those games. Would you start stripping them to. Would you take away. Jose Altuve as batting title. I I would put an asterisk next to his batting title. I'd have it the two hundred and four hits that he got would they disappear off his baseball reference page. No they would still be there They would would still be there. Would we be an asterisk on his. Mvp Award what about should we change the stats of the pitchers who gave up those hits. It's because they had an unfair advantage. Why not Again I think people play for rings people play titles people play eight for championships. That's the part of it that I care about most okay. And what would we do about the box scores. They tell the story of the history of the sport. One beautiful game at a time would re rule that everything in the astros box scores was ally. Should we zap those box scores from the record books and the Internet. I think all of this it by stripping the title right all of these other views will change in other words. If you strip the title. Everybody's GonNa look at Jose aalto vase Two hundred and four hundred and four hits and say I don't know if it was real okay It will essentially put an asterisk next to everything. Jason's Jason is talking about all right and he goes on to say and this is my argument. See The problem here. These things happened. They all happened. We have witnesses. Mrs We have records. We have those box scores. We have videos so once you start messing with what happened. Where do you stop? How slippery slope way too slippery Tomase said exactly where you stop? Jason You stop with the title you take away the title you take away the World Series rings and you take away the world series trophy the title away from Houston Okay because otherwise we're whitewashing the entire thing okay. Here's here's his counter. Do you remember what that world series meant in that time and place to all those the people in Houston who had just survived a powerful hurricane and found much needed joy when that world series parade rolled through their town. What do you tell those people? Could you please stop higher our office so we can delete those memories from the hard drive in your brain it will have as we just decided that Prado ever happen. Everybody is going to have to square that in their own minds. They're gonNA GONNA have to square it in their own minds. I understand there was a terrible tragedy there but it is. There's a penalty that must is be paid he says let's think about the PD era. Barry Bonds got to keep all seven of his. MVP's Roger Clements gave bags zero of his. Cy Youngs Manny Ramirez. Won a batting title a home run title and RBI title and a world series MVP even to PD. Suspensions didn't cost him any. Okay but what do you think of when you think of very bunce steroids. Okay what I want to make. Sure is that in a hundred years. I think we're there when people look back the record books they're going to see Houston cheated in twenty setting and Boston cheated in twenty eight. I think we're there. I think it's GonNa Stan. I think that these two days of stories three days now have been so extraordinary and the penalties paid by these managers. These GM's Greg. When I say Houston Astros two thousand seventeen? What is the first thing that pops into your cheaters trash cans? I think it's forever. Yeah I think when I say Jose Altuve now cheater. Yeah when you think of nineteen eighteen. Nineteen black socks. Do you think of cheating. I can't hundred years but there was a penalty to be paid. Joe Jackson didn't even cheat and I think of him as a cheater just because he was tied to it. Guys are branded for life. All of them. Well I hope so because that's ultimately why that's where your if that's where you're going. I think think you're going to get there. I think they're going to find I you know. Obviously the offenses are nowhere near the same. But I think you're gonNA find that these guys we're GONNA try and go back to away things were they're gonna find what OJ found. Nobody's interested in hearing from you. Nobody's interested in you going back to the way. Things were I think they're gonNA anytime Jose to has four hit game you're going to say Wonder if he cheated right. The problem with them to is that there in the Internet era a leave the social media era social media dots. Actually forget that's interesting. Social Media does not forget. The Internet does not forget anything. Just just look up Hashtag. Houston asterisks right and see rabbit hole that yeah I mean that actually makes me feel better as long as they have a permanent stigma Ma Long. Is this follow line from the data and risky business permanent records. That is it's on. Your permanent record has as long as I know that one hundred years when little kids look up who won the world championship in two thousand seventeen that they know that they were lying and they were cheating and that there was a scheme team and that's why they want as long as they know that in one hundred years. I'm okay with I think we're there now. This is their legacy from now on. You know and and it's like anybody think about it anybody that's involved in a scandal. This big Yup like bill cosby provided years and years of really good entertainment. Nobody cares no- his legacy is completely completely something else. Yeah you know. And and I think you're gonNA find that with the Astros they cheated and even though they didn't get punished in in the in the baseball courts they're going to get pub punished in the court of public opinion and to your point the court of public opinion is different now because the social media. Yeah No. It's true it's true. Hey fifth row. Fridays is going on right now. Now fifth row seats see Lakers spurs on Feb four plus an autograph basketball. Anything we say today can be on the quiz Friday at five o'clock doc and there will be a question from each day this week. The best price we give away fifth row seats All right coming up next for you. Great News for USC the Trojan Football Fans Really. I will explain it next Mason Ireland. Espn La that's not nice of you to tease USC. Football fans and save okay rough year here I wanna I wanNA bring this up First of all if you If you haven't been following this Mike Bone the new athletic director Germain changes yesterday. Kishan calls him. Mister bonehead Mr Bone hit. That is not accurate. Forget about that Mike. Bone one of those interviews. We've ever had. Oh you don't even see it. Wasn't that bad greg. Oh that was that was that was Tesla happy interview chance. That was not a happy interview he may never come on this show. I think you know we don't have the US contract anymore. I doubt he will. Yeah if I was saying I wouldn't come on. I bet it's not accurate. So the Athletic Department may change his yesterday. Steve Lopes who had been there since. Nineteen eighty-four eighty four. Yup started as an assistant. Strength Coach was fired along with Ron or he was in charge of the fund. Yup and Steve Slopes was kind of the guy behind the guy with both pat. Hayden Hayden and Lynn Swann So there are changes over there and they're rebuilding the athletic department from the ground up lot of people upset including me. The Clay Helton remains the head coach of the USC TROJANS but there are a couple of little nuggets. That I thought were interesting number. One odds for winning the Heisman Trophy in Vegas right now. Who Do you think the favourite is for next year Trevor Lawrence forever? Trevor Lawrence is at seventy two justin fields from Ohio. State is at four two one. Guess WHO's at nine to one Keaton slow heathen slow vis a nine to one. He's really good. He's really really really good. Then I open Stewart Mandel. Who's a college football writer he has got USC you as number fourteen in his preseason poll what is Yemen the PAC twelve? Do you see what who's who's is there are there PAC twelve teams ahead of that. Easy Oregon's got a look at it. But here's what he says. Trojans will contend for the PAC twelve title standout freshman quarterback heathen slow biscuits back wide receivers unrest Saint Brown Drake London at five star Brew McCoy and four star Gary Bryant junior all the running backs return whoever clay helton hires to revamp. US's disappointing disappointing. Defense inherits promising. Talent like Drake Jackson and Talanoa who Fonda so that is a very optimistic mystic look at USC football. Here's the problem. Clay is still the coach right but I mean store storm does a really he. He'd reach more of of Clay Helton than we do. Yeah that's a good thing. We like Klay personally. It's just that he. He has a very good coach. I don't think we should ever say that again that we like him. Personally we've established we've well established that we like impersonal. There's new people tune in every day. Yeah he's Super Nice Guy the now. UCLA is ranked if US's fourteenth what's it's Ucla like fifteen or sixteen or unranked what they're unranked. The chip Kelly Express. You heard me unranked. Well then what are we ranked in basketball. Okay we're basketball school. I I don't know I don't follow college basketball. Were you ranked or unranked that right. Yeah a lot of organs number eight by the way Oregon's number eight in the next year full that was Cincinnati said coach. Right Mick Cronin. So so you got Cincinnati's basketball coach. We got his We got their athletic director. Yeah apparently there's hype line between here. You know but Alex would sign with the dodgers today. You know it's interesting. You remember when the dodgers traded all those guys is to Cincinnati. Yeah they traded GIG and Alex Wood and Kyle farmer and all those guys now farmers the only one left. Yeah that was a big hall for the reds. And they where where's PUIG next year. I've read a free agent. I read that. San Francisco is very interesting Seo Really mean we face them what eighteen or nineteen far anxiety gets him again. Yeah yeah that would be somebody. They're going to be an awful team. San Francisco is going to be absolutely awful. They're in a complete tear down rebuild. I get I'm guessing that sixty five win team next year. And bumgarner just gone slighted. They don't have a lot of page. tweet gives some gives you somebody is divorced man. Come on yeah. Yeah and he would be really annoying San Francisco as going against. UCLA is going to be very difficult to watch. So who's the dodgers big challenges that Colorado Arizona. I personally personally think it's San Diego. I like San Diego ally because I think that I think many hitting no they do your your commitment to peace they have hosmer Fernando ts one year better. That was just as rookie year trying to anybody sales on that Tina would scare me. They signed Chato. Well Manny Man. I've shot and we know what manny is a great player. I mean he's he's hustling isn't as you know it's not he's not Johnny. Hustle Will Myers air. 'cause Mer Chris Paddock is a good picture. is a very very really drew as I say this about the padres have an excellent stadium. Now here's the thing. I think San Diego is going to run second but but I think they're going to run twenty games on the dodgers. The dodgers will and dodger fans. I think we're all frustrated that nothing has happened this year but by doing nothing we are still guaranteeing ourself spot in the playoffs. The dodgers will win an eighth consecutive division title when Seven Straight Division and should of how to world series in two thousand seventeen maybe twenty eighteen. Think about the way that legacy changes man had we won the world series 2017. Nobody would be complaining about anything. The dodgers are doing right now but right now. They're the team that cannot get over the top. I just show you how like as you know my wife. Lisa is not a giant baseball fan Dan Yup but even she has gotten into this so she sent me this text this morning. RANDOM THOUGHT ASTROS players should be forced to issue a public on camera. Apology to Kershaw. And all the other pitchers on the dodgers I agree would be good for the kids to see it would be. That is a pipe dream. Is it not know it would be a public public service announcement. Jose altuve cheating is bad kids episode of curb your enthusiasm where they made. Larry David stand outside a restaurant with a sandwich board. That said I steal silverware right right habit that we make a Jose. altuve prater out in front of Dodger Stadium with a Sandwich Board as yes. I cheated the dodge like out of the 2017 world series. You know what I took from that conversation. Oh man curb your enthusiasm comes back Sunday. Hey how great is excellent All right coming up next Lakers are home to the Orlando Magic. Interesting comments from Jared Dudley the other night We'll have this coming up for you next. Mason and Ireland E._S._p._N. L._A..

Astros dodgers baseball Houston Astros Jose Altuve Boston Red Sox Houston Lakers MVP Greg US Yankees La mets Ireland American League Jeffrey Jiving Mike Fires League Commissioner
Wildlife Tourism Behind The Camera


30:27 min | 2 years ago

Wildlife Tourism Behind The Camera

"Support for NPR comes from investor dot gov, presenting this message when it comes to investing. We all have questions and investor dot gov has answers. It's your free resource for tools tips, and information about investing before you invest investor dot gov. This is one A. I'm Sasha, an Simon's sitting in for Joshua Johnson in Washington slot sell fees, elephant rides tiger hangouts dolphin swims. These are just some of the attractions offered by the wildlife tourism industry, and they've become so popular these days there nearly synonymous with contemporary travel. The industry isn't new, but thanks to social media platforms like Instagram and Facebook. These activities are more visible and marketable than ever before wildlife. Tourism allows visitors to enjoy animals up close in their natural habitats. But what happens when you take an even closer look at the industry are the animals enjoying themselves to at what cost to animals is business booming. Here with me in studio is Natasha, daily a writer and editor for National Geographic, covering, animal welfare and exploitation. She's the reporter behind net Geos June. Cover story about wildlife tourism behind the scenes the tash up. Welcome to one A. Thanks. For having me. First things. First Natasha, what do we mean? When we talk about wildlife tourism talk about the wide array of experiences that this includes right, so wildlife tourism really can run the gamut from going into the forest with binoculars looking for birds to going on safari to having these up-close experiences with exotic animals. So it really does run a there's a vast spectrum that it covers. And now you made a short documentary that showcases some of what you found while traveling. And researching this story, here's a piece of that documentary. She's. Mccain behind the stadium where the elephants perform, and we found this juvenile elephant on. He has a gaping at his temple. He also has broken leg. The other one is chained up. He looks totally emaciated skin and bones. This is forced shape. I've seen an elephant in Thailand. All in the name of entertainment, while I have to say, I, I watched that earlier. And, and as we were just discussing a lot. Yes, being there in person was extremely difficult. So just a little background on our story, so photographer. Kirstin loose. And I traveled around the world over the course of about a year, looking at various hot spots, where this industry is thriving and that clip. You just heard was from a elephant attraction outside of Bangkok Thailand. And we found this, juvenile elephant behind a stadium gives an overview of where all you went to right. So we traveled. So we really wanted to go to hot spots around the world where this up close, these up close encounters with captive wildlife are thriving. So we, we went to Thailand where there for about a month. We went to Russia, we went to Hawaii, and where this all started to rewind was actually in the rainforest where we are looking at these experiences with Slavs, Caymans, Anaconda, etc. That's what I was just gonna ask you what kinds of wildlife tourism, did you encounter along the way? Right. So we're really looking at native species in each place. We went, so and the reason we're doing that is because, for example, you may go to Thailand as a traveler and something that's kinda often at the top of people's bucket lists as wanting to get close to an elephant, or a tiger. So we really want to look at animals native to the countries where we were traveling to see how they're used for these unique wildlife experiences. Laura tweeted, she says we went on our honeymoon to Thailand with visions of writing an elephant upon arrival. We were warned of the horrific condition used to break the elephants and opted to visit a sanctuary instead where we could feed the elephants and give them a bath. It was more expensive, but far more humane. Right. Ring a bell. Yeah. Absolutely. So I think that this is increasingly I mean, first of all tobacco a little bit. What I think Laura is describing is a process that is pretty universe. Missile based on what we found in our reporting. So in order for an elephant, for example, to be docile enough to interact with humans up close to give those rides or even give those baths or perform tricks. They have to be trained from a young age. And so we encountered hundreds of elephants through our, our time in Thailand, and spoke to trainers, etc. And typically what happens when elephants is young is at the elephant is separated from its mother, and that it is slowly trained using a an instrument called bullhook, which is a wooden stick with a metal hook on the end to comply to sit to stand to tricks and essentially to, to be able to obey the owner. So I think that's what Laura describing what she heard about before she went there, and maybe she didn't realize before she went the is prolific throughout the industry. Can you describe a bit more about the conditions that you found upon your travels and tell us what kind of responses do tourist get when they actually ask these attraction owners about the living conditions of the animals? I know Laura she says she was warned. But sometimes people ask, right? So in terms of the living conditions that we. Countered. So in large part, I would say what we often find is that elephants at these elephant. Camps are confined installs when they're not out giving rides or performing. I'm usually they'll have a chain around their ankle be attached to a pole, and they don't really have an ability to move very much. Typically, they won't really get to have other interaction with elephants elephants are very social, so not being able to have that interaction can be a red flag. So these are just some examples of the conditions that we would see repeatedly while on our travels. And how did seeing all of it make you feel to be honest. It was it was difficult to see I think that it was not everything we saw was as horrific the clip. You just heard. There is absolutely a spectrum, and, you know, some days where it easier than others. There were times that Cureton and I would see a specific situation and truly be blown away by it and be very saddened by what we are seeing. And then there are other times that we realize, okay, this is not nearly as concerning us. Maybe we saw yesterday. And I think that really represents industry of the whole there is not kind of one size fits all situation that each elephant is in, but overall, they're all largely part of this industry where they are trained for the most part at a young age to have these experiences. Let's go to another clip from your documentary. We went to elephant valley and China Thailand. They have elephants that have been rescued from the traditional industry, and tourists are not allowed to get close to the elephants. This is probably the only interaction that tourists gay world here. It's next time so they're able to feed each of the elephants bananas, and you can see this barrier. Is there mostly for to prevent people from going into the elephant? Elephant grounds. So it's totally voluntary and elephants Tom for snack time. And then they can leave whenever they want on. So it's. A sustainable option for elephant tourism in the area. So Natasha these attractions are technically legal. Right. You know what kind of action can be taken either on the part of the industry, or on the part of the consumers? Yes. So I think it's really important to know that everything that's going on. Thailand with elephants, and Tigers, etc. These are a legal activities. The they're all league. Yes. Everything. That's that's happening that we described that you just heard are above board and legal and authorized by the government something seen as nothing is wrong with what is happening, right? Exactly interesting. Now, we mentioned earlier the role of social media in popularizing these attractions. I know I for one have been dying to go to Thailand, and I'm thinking, oh, wow. The first thing I want to do is take photos with the elephants, because that's what everyone does on my Instagram feed, but what else has changed about the industry if anything, that's exacerbated the issue of ethics here? Yes. So I think what you describe is actually a really common desire. You know you. People love animals. They wanna get close to them. You go to Thailand and absolutely. One of the things most people want to do based on year of reporting talking to dozens of tourists is close to an elephant. So I think that, yes, this is exasperated by the fact that I mean first of all these activities are nothing new, this is not something that's popped up in the last few years by any means. But what really has changed? The game is social media. So just as you describe you may be scrolling idly through Instagram feed. See a friend or even just, you know, celebrity or influence or that you may follow having this beautiful picturesque experience with an elephant, and you might think. Wow. I really want to do that as well. So what social media functions as a centrally viral advertising intentionally or not for these experiences, zuzu wrote on our Facebook page. Please stop writing elephants and camels swimming with dolphins taking photos with any animal, you are participating in and funding their abuse. Right. So I think that the key thing here is that most people do not. I want to hurt an animal, most people, do not want to think that they're contributing to any sort of abuse. So what I think is important to remember is that it's extremely important to do your homework to do your research. If you don't want to be to think that you may be contributing to these activities than you really want to research a head of time. What you're getting into before you pay your money at the door to buy a ticket, but also before maybe post it to social media and recommended to your friends and family. You wrote in your reporting that you're most concerned about elephants and Tigers why. Right. I think the nature of the elephants and tiger industry in Thailand, and I keep bringing up Thailand, because it's where we reported from for so long is massive part of the tourist economy. So there are about thirty hundred captive elephants in Thailand. And a huge majority of them are part of the tourism industry, and they're so popular and remained so popular that these experiences are something that is a huge sort of dementia. Of this wildlife tourism industry. I'm Tigers, I'm glad you brought them up because there are two very popular experiences with Tigers. Well in Thailand. One is snuggling a tiger club. Cub a close you'll go to a facility, you'll have a baby tiger, you'll be able to cuddle it for five minutes, and then sort of move on, on another really popular activity is posing with adult tiger cubs, like right next to them. Getting your photo taken. But what people may not realize is that tiger cubs are often speed read for this industry, which means they are their mothers are bread over and over there taken from their mothers shortly after birth and Tigers are only little for so long. So in order to always have new baby Tigers to cuddle a business half to always have new baby Tigers. So I think that, that's maybe something people don't realize by just going for a few hours coming up. We'll discuss tips for ethical animal encounters on vacation. We're speaking with Natasha daily writer and editor for National Geographic, I'm Sasha. I'm glad to be with you. You're listening to one A from WMU and NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Google veteran. Mitch Hoyt founded skinny sticks maple syrup and he's showing that small businesses can do big things, Mitch started making syrup from a few trees in his Wisconsin backyard, and now is connecting with customers worldwide with help from Google tools skinny sticks is one of millions of small businesses using Google to grow learn how Google is helping businesses in your state at Google dot com slash economic impact. Nineteen sixty five Darkin street in Somalia, Obama and a murder. A new podcast exposes the laws that kept this murder from being solved and explores memory myth and accountability for a crime at the heart of the civil rights movement from NPR light lies. Listen and subscribe now. This is one A. I'm Sasha, an Simon's. We're discussing wildlife tourism with Natasha daily of National Geographic, the not all of what you saw in your travels, was necessarily grim or unethical talk about animal sanctuaries, and other more ethical attractions, right? So the sanctuary sort of movement is something that is really grown in Thailand over the last few years and largely this has come from tourist demand. I think it's important to note here that this entire industry is driven by consumer demand by consumer dollars. So as people start to demand, different experiences or want different things the industry does follow. And so what, what you've been seeing in the last decade or so, is that many tourists have been increasingly aware that there are issues going on in this industry, and they have they've, they've been seeking out, more natural more humane experiences and the market has followed. So over the last several years in Thailand, you have seen a opening of. Places that call themselves elephants sanctuaries, and this is, you know, there's absolutely a spectrum and sang these sanctuaries are in large part, vastly more humane than elephant, attractions were the elephants give rides all day or do tricks. There are some issues involved in this is that, you know, often people may do Google search for elephants sanctuary. You may come across a website. It says we're an elephant sanctuary. We don't offer any writing, but then you may get there in the may offer an activity that still relies on interaction like bathing, for example. So while this is in many ways on improvement in terms of the elephants day day life, it may still raise red flags because as long as that up close interaction exists that elephant will have to have been trained in order to stand next to you. So I think that these are red flags that the industry still working through and is important for tourists to know that if you really are seeking an experience where you can look too hard line between something that you think that won't. Contribute towards elephants Abusir training in any way. You'll probably wanna see seek experiences at offer observation only so this brings me to, to one experience that I had in Thailand, that you actually heard the last last clip from. It was a place called elephant valley in chain. Ri- Costa chain. My Thailand in the northern part of the country. And this is a place where they're five elephants have been were previously in the logging and trekking camp industry. And now they live at this, this sanctuary, where they're able to kinda roam free, they're able to interact with each other tourists, come in small groups, but tourists cannot get close to them. They can't bay them. They can't ride them. And what this means that the elephants can sort of just be elephants. So when you're looking for these sorts of experiences, if that's something you're interested in you'll want to we recommend based on what we found in our reporting is that observation is something you really want to kind of keep in mind, the tasha is there, a cultural component to this conversation to, to what extent is this shaped by how different countries view, animals and animal rights? Right. So I think that, you know, a cultural anthropologist would be able to speak to this in depth. So I think I can't necessarily comment on cultural expectations within cultures and explanations for this. But there are a few things that we do know. First of all, we know that over the last fifteen years, glue tr- trips abroad, taken by people around the world have doubled. So this industry is growing, but we all in how big is it? Let's, let's make that clear. What's the scope, your money, moneywise? Right. It's actually really tough to determine no one really knows. There hasn't been any quantitative analysis of what the financial scale is of the wildlife tourism industry. So hopefully that's something that will continue to be researched in your stay calm. Okay. But we do know is that this jump in tourist is driven partly by Chinese tourists were taking twice as many trips abroad as they were as any other nationalities they were a decade ago. So this is something that we encountered, as we visited various tourist attractions owners of these Kemp's would frequently. Tell us that the shows and the rides are desired in large part by their Chinese visitors. So for whatever reason that is. I'm not quite sure, but that's a reality that exists something that I think. Is important to note is that, you know, in China, there aren't any federal animal welfare laws, so that may in some part contribute to possibly a lack of awareness or different attitudes towards the treatment of animals in captivity. So that and whereas, you know, in the west there, frequently new stories about animals around the world who may be in conditions that aren't ideal to the reader. And so this is something that pops up and up. So I think that maybe an increased awareness may contribute to the fact that some western tourists are desiring a experiences that are maybe a little more ethical. Is it wrong to project one's own ethical standards onto other countries? How do we navigate something like that? You know it's tough because there aren't any universal standards for these experiences. There is not any body. You can turn to that will tell you this place is something is somewhere where you should go in this place, isn't it's really actually difficult to find. And those guidelines to sort of tell you what to do and what not to do. I think what something that we can turn to. It's called the they're called the five freedoms, and these are really sort of universally recognized by veterinary bodies in the US and Canada in Europe and around the world as standards through, which we should treat animals to mitigate their suffering. He said the five freedom. Yes, they're called the five freedoms and some examples of the five freedoms are freedom from hunger and thirst, freedom from discomfort freedom from pain, or injury freedom to express their normal behavior and freedom from fear and distress. So if you're able to look at these experiences through those lenses it may help you identify okay? You know, this experience that I'm researching online doesn't seem like it adheres to the five freedom standards. So that may help you evaluate for yourself which experiences you may want to contribute to an ultimately. That's what this all comes down to is people arming themselves with the knowledge of what goes into this industry and being able to identify for themselves. What they may want to pay money to contribute to Natasha daily is a writer and editor for National Geographic more. Just ahead. Stay close. Good. Support for one A and the following message come from the platinum card from American Express conversations and civil debate in our society push us forward and connect us with the rest of the world with the platinum card earned five times membership rewards points on flights booked directly with airlines or with American Express travel. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Don't live life without it. Visit American Express dot com slash explore platinum terms apply. And before we get back to the show, a wanna share some news about the other podcast host how I built this. We're returning to San Francisco for the second how I built this summit supported by American Express be joined there by founders of companies like Instagram slack, away, bliss, jet blue and many, many more. Visit summit dot NPR dot org to learn more. And I hope to see you there back now to our conversation on. What's really, behind those cute sell fees with wild animals, with national geographics? Tasha daily Stewart emailed us. He says, why are we targeting so-called exotic animals in the east and not say riding horses at a dude ranch in Montana? What's the difference? Right. So I think that one thing to, to note is that horses, for example, are domesticated animals. They've been domesticated for you know, a very, very long time by humans. They're used to interacting with humans. And so the training process to get that horse to give a person, a ride at a dude ranch, for example, is very different from the training process that goes into preparing an elephant for a lifetime of, of these up close experiences. So I think that, that is one distinction that we want to keep in mind, and that's really, why we wanted to look at specifically wild animals in captivity in, in this reporting because wild animals specifically undergo various in many forms, especially in Thailand, where we were training that has to allow them to, to, you know. These encounters, for example, in two thousand seventeen you reported on tool that Instagram, added to its app to alert users of possible animal abuse, Hugh. Talk about that tool. Yes. So, so in two thousand seventeen and this is following a story, we did in the Amazon, and very quickly, what we are looking at in the Amazon was actually wild animals being poached from the jungle illegally for use in the tourism industry. So Slavs came in Anaconda, etc. And after our story ran Instagram, actually responded to they're aware of the fact that these activities are shared through social media. I think that something that's important to keep in mind is that they're none of the business of policing behavior. Their hands are tied when it comes to stopping people from sharing photos of these experiences, especially if they're legal such as in the case in Thailand. But what they did was they, they targeted dozens of hashtags associated with wildlife tours. I'm like, sloth selfie tiger selfie. I believe, and so what, what happens and still in place. So when you will. Search Instagram hashtag sloth selfie a pop-up will come up on your screen that says something along the lines of the content. Your viewing may be harmful to animals. Click here to learn more, and it takes you to a page and Instagram's help center with lots of information from various NGOs, and animal welfare organizations educating people on what they might want to look for. So this is a great step from Instagram in sort of, you know, approaching this issue on their platform. But are we seeing these kinds of initiatives elsewhere? Yeah. I mean, I think that elsewhere in social media. Yes. So as to my knowledge, so far, what we've seen to date is this Instagram movement. But I think it'll be interesting to see what happens in the months and years to come, especially now that this issue is so much on the radar, I think of a social media users, it'll be interesting to see how the kind of social media industry response. No, I want to read an Email from Matthew. He says, I was in Mexico with my family at a wildlife park, and they wanted to swim with the dolphins. My fourteen year old daughter at the time y. Watch the harnessing and corralling of these mammals and turn to me and said, I don't wanna do this anymore. We no longer go to these parks zoos or circuses as the rest of my family. Agreed. It wasn't fun to watch animals forced to entertain. So the young child was able to see that something wasn't quite right there. I think that's really interesting. I think children tend to based on my experience, ten to have a really keen, kind of sense of what, what you know what something may not feel quite right. And I think that, that actually raises a really good point that it's so important to trust your gut. When you're out there on vacation, especially in a place you may not be familiar with. You may not even speak, the language should if something to you in that circumstance may not feel quite right. Then it's important to sort of listen to your intuition. Now, let's say starting I'm starting to plan a trip and I go to Google right. And I'm looking for ethical animal encounters. What should I look for online? Yes. So I think it's really important to know that don't necessarily just pay attention to the language used on a website. If a place calls himself a sanctuary. Okay. That's great. They may be a sanctuary, but they also may not be in Thailand. For example, there are no sort of regulations in terms of who can call themself a sanctuary, and who can't that word can be thrown around willy nilly. So I think that what you really want to do is, if you're interested in having these sort of experiences, it's a great place start. Yeah. Google ethical elephants sexual ethical tiger experience, for example. But then once you get to the attractions website or their page on Tripadvisor. You may want to look at one and two star reviews so often, the kind of negative reviews are where animal welfare concerns are detailed. You also want to look at actually the activities that a place offers if they're offering interaction that, that may be a red flag. If they go to their way to say, we don't offer any any interaction. Here's why that may be a good sign if that's something you're interested in. So it's just really, really important to arm yourself with the knowledge now is it possible for any wa? Wildlife tourism to be truly ethical, if it means animals are being held in captivity just sort of on that same thought you were just on. How do you frame the conversation of ethics? Right. So I think I don't think that captivity is the problem at all. Here, there are, for example, with elephants, domesticated elephants, elephants. The thirty eight hundred elephants that are in captivity in Thailand cannot be released to the wild. These are animals that are now dependent on human care and have to remain in given care. So for the concept of kept wild animals, and captivity is maybe not the focus that we want to that we want to highlight. We're really looking for is the treatment of animals in captivity. So gin you can go back to the five freedoms to sort of evaluate experiences through that lens. You can really look at how when you're there on the ground look at how these animals are being kept look, if they have social contact with other members of their their their own species, look at the, the space, they actually have to Rome, that's really important. So I think that, yes, like, we don't want to frame this in the sense that, you know, seen animals in the wild is good. Good seeing animals at Kipp tippety is bad. That's absolutely not the case. It's more a case by case spaces. There's a massive spectrum of how animals are treated, and you just want to do your homework. And just so it's clear who decides what's ethical is there like a certification process? There's not. I mean, that's, that's kind of the, the big challenge of this no-one, decides what's ethical. I mean, I think that if you if we're looking through what's ethical looking at what's ethical through the lens of. Okay. Are we mitigating suffering? And if, if we, if we put the standard of suffering sort of our baseline, we don't want to contribute to animal suffering. Well, we're seeking entertainment than you can use that as your baseline in your approach and through that you can evaluate whether that animal is suffering or not, or whether they're thriving. So I think that that's something that the five freedoms really come in Hindi about looking for experiences that offer observation because again, there's just a huge spectrum. And if you're looking at observation only in a natural habitat, it's likely that, that experience. Since may be less likely to cause suffering for that animal. When read an Email from d d says there is currently popular commercial from financial firm showing an older couple bathing, elephants and meeting with their financial advisor to ensure that they can do this every year. Do businesses ever consider what their ads promote other than their products? I think that's a very important point that, you know, for example, I think the, the show amazing race recently went to a location where they wrote elephants. So I again, this is something that comes down to awareness. I don't think companies and the industry is maybe even necessarily aware that what they're putting their commercials maybe racing these red flags. So again, this isn't something that just comes down to, you know, travelers needs to be aware. I think that the whole, you know, advertising community as a whole needs to be aware. It's something that the more aware people are the less likely they are to inadvertently, promote experiences that may not be ethical right now. Let's talk about who's doing it. Well. You know what were some of the countries that were handling wildlife tourism, the best, and where would you tell people to gravitate to when they're looking to plan trips that involve animals where specifically, right? So I think it's, it's tough to say, which countries are, are doing this because I think that these activities go on. There's, there's a spectrum in every country in the world. For example, these tire experiences, I describe in Thailand, they also exist throughout the United States. So this is something that I think what it comes down to is that in many countries. These experiences are legal and I think that's important for people to know so often people say, well, why can't these animals just be rescued? Well, it's because there's the it's it it's legal in the no one's breaking any laws necessarily. So I think that what people really want to do is tell be able to tell for yourself know that your dollars actually changed the industry. The entire industry is so entrepeneurship that when demand when, when consumer demand asks for something new the industry will. Follow and briefly National Geographic is also getting involved and raising awareness about this issue. Can you talk about the new social media campaign surrounding wildlife? Tourism briefly. Yes. So we, we've started a head called hashtag, NAT GO wildlife tourism, and we're looking for people to sort of share this one chair Bill image from our story to raise awareness in their own communities because what's so important. This old comes down to people spreading awareness themselves this movement will live and die on people spreading awareness to their own friends and family. And so I think that getting involved on social media is key. The tasha daily is a writer and editor for National Geographic, covering, animal welfare and exploitation. What's next for you? I'm not sure yet. That's a really good question sky's the limit right in attached. To thanks for being with us. Thank you so much for having me. Today's conversation was produced by Katherine think and edited by Miranda. Full more to learn more about Katherine and Randa and the rest of the. Team. Visit the one eight dot org slash staff. This program comes to you from W A AMU part of American University in Washington distributed by NPR until we meet again, I'm Sasha, an Simon's. Thank you so much for listening. This is one eight.

Thailand writer and editor Instagram Natasha Google Tigers NPR elephant valley Sasha Bangkok Thailand Simon Facebook Washington dot United States Mccain Laura Kirstin Joshua Johnson
Tuesday, Aug. 11 Christian and Melody Cooper, Infectious Disease Expert Dr. Michael Osterholm (Repeat Episode)

The View

37:36 min | 8 months ago

Tuesday, Aug. 11 Christian and Melody Cooper, Infectious Disease Expert Dr. Michael Osterholm (Repeat Episode)

"You're listening to an encore episode of the view. The CO hosts will return Tuesday September Eighth Live for season twenty, four premiere. Arcade and pay attention because the view starts now. The sucks stops here as the president threatens to come for big tech for how he says twitter is censoring him facebook. CEO Mark Zuckerberg says, social media sites have to face backs about free speech I believe strongly that. Shouldn't be the arbiter truth of everything that people say online. and. Christian Cooper is here to talk about the viral video of him being falsely accused of menacing a woman in new. York's Central Park an African American band accordingly threatened myself and my dog. Plus. One of America's leading experts on covert nineteen Dr Michael Oester home talks about the risks of reopening. If a second way could hit harder than the first and how he's been warning about another pandemic since two thousand five. Here come hot topics. With whoopie joy behar, sunny hostage in and Megan McCain. Now, let's get things started. Well. Hello welcome to the view everybody this morning you know who finally acknowledged finally acknowledged the tragic milestone of one hundred thousand American deaths from covid nineteen because he spent most of the last twenty four hours ranting about twitter trying to censor his free speech for fact, checking his misinformation about mail and voting. He's issuing executive order against the big tech companies today and he may have an unlikely ally in facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg watched the clip twitter decided for the first time ever to fact, check one of president trump's tweets. I wondered if you thought that twitter may have made the wrong decision here we have a different policy I think than twitter on this. I just believe strongly that that facebook shouldn't be the arbiter of truth of everything that people say online. I think in general private companies probably shouldn't be a special platform companies shouldn't be in the position of of doing that. Sunday. What is you know who actually have the power to do about this I mean they did not. They didn't fact. Check him they just. Put additional information saying there's other information out there. So what what's the difference between fact checking and what he's talking about and does he have the power to do this? We'll fact checking certainly isn't censorship, which is I, think what the president is complaining about so he's not being censored, but he's also saying that know that he can sort of shutdown these private companies and that's really at issue here because private companies are the first amendment applies to governmental entities. So he really has very little power when it comes to a private entities I'm not quite. Sure what the executive order he thinks he can do with it because it seems like his power presidential power in this area is really really limited. The Communications Decency Act was passed in the late nineties and it protects companies like facebook like twitter social media companies from things that are posted by other people. They're just sort of a third party provider and when they take the extra step to. Fact check someone to to make sure that the information out there is out there for everyone to compare for themselves. The law protects them in doing that as well. I'm not quite sure where the president is trying to go with this. Right. So what I mean, what what do you think is really motivating all this. Well as she says, first of all, he loves twitter a loved it because they didn't fact check him and that's why he likes facebook and why he hates the New York Times and the Washington Post because they are run by the FCC I guess and they have to well whatever I'm not sure about the legality of that. But I know that they have the ability and they do fact check the president, which is why he hates them but as because he wants us to believe that mailing ballots of fraudulent meanwhile. Kelly mcenaney she just we just found out that she voted by mail. A dozen times in Florida and trump himself has voted by mail. He. Now, another thing there's a primary for the Republican Party coming up in Pennsylvania and the trump bites are encouraging people to do mail in ballots. So so I guess it's okay if it's a on his side, if it's not on his side, then it's not okay your say but even said myself. So he said if I, if you ever agree, let me quote trump. If you ever agreed to mail voting, you'd never have a republican elected in this country again. So this is what's behind it. He does not want people to vote by mail. Okay. So Megan's you'd think that Sucker burg has a point about social media platforms being hands off when it comes to free speech. Actually do and I think it's really smart of Mark Zuckerberg to go on Dana Perino show. She's obviously a former Bush administration official and she works for Fox News, I get smart for him to be utilizing conservative media. I. Think the idea that Jack Dorsey is neutral or unbiased person in all of this just isn't rational and that's fine. Every seal very private company is. Free to have whatever political beliefs they want and believe, and he has publicly given donations to people like Tulsi Gabbard I believe he's a proud. Progressive and that's great. I think part of the problem here is I don't understand what anyone's talking about. So the president wants to censor a public platform where he has eighty billion followers and twitter wants to start fact checking tweets. Now, we're going to go down this road, every journalist, every commentator, every teenager who says that they can run you know whatever a hundred miles in two minutes is going. To, be fact checked that's not logical. You might as well shut down the platform in its entirety I. Think all of this is Kooky theater on the parts of the tech companies and on President trump and I think they're all virtuous signaling to each other's bases and audiences and I. Think. This is a complete waste of time especially with one hundred thousand jobs right now and by the way the. Balloting. You just said joy that's not accurate. Arizona has voted read every election since nineteen fifty-three and sunny pointed out a few shows go over seventy percent of Arizonans vote in by absentee ballot or by mail. So it's just all of this trafficking and complete and utter inaccuracies and falsehoods and I for one it's Thursday. We've had a long week have no time for this. To say I've tried to. Guide, joy. No. No go ahead. Does the delay just go ahead Vickie right? I was just GonNa say I I find it extraordinary since. As. We said yesterday I I don't know any conservatives that. have been constantly blocked I. Know People have had issues with conservatives and Liberals. But for the most part twitter people say whatever they want on twitter for one. I'm kind of glad that you know they are fact checking stuff that is you know really having to do with everyone's health. You know this when you're talking about covid nineteen if you're talking about what you can do at the ballot box I want to know is it is true I. Want someone to say here articles that gives you a different perspective I. Don't mind that when it's coming when it comes to those big things I don't think people you know teenagers who lie about how fast they can run or how many girls they actually took the round thing. But. I do think that the government should be aware that people do want this stuff fact checked and if you are concerned about it, don't be s the facts. You. Know I just think it's you know people have been mailing imbalance for my whole life. And I've never heard anybody say oh, well, we can't do that now. I, just too much. But before we go before we go to break joy a we have a friend who's passed and I want you to talk about him a little bit is one of the earliest in loudest voices in the AIDS crisis trail-blazing outspoken activists Larry Kramer passed away at eighty four and he left a huge impact and the I know you knew him as well joy. Well. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that I mean I interviewed Larry Kramer many times once on my radio show I mean, he believed as his website says he was an activist in the truest sense. And they say. We advise and inform we demonstrate we are not silent. I, think that that is the legacy of Larry Kramer that he refused to be silent in the middle of the AIDS crisis and he spoke up and he created the Gamons health crisis and act up and when I interviewed him one time on my show on CNN he said people should have a mouth like you and me. And I'll get us into trouble plenty of trouble. But that's the way that anything changes if you open your mouth and speak out and another another quick quick interview I did with him I said to him one time on the radio show I had why are you attacking Elizabeth Taylor? Elizabeth Taylor is on your side who was going after Elizabeth Taylor and he said because Elizabeth Taylor will do something. The government does not hear me does will not hear you just like now where alone in this you have to talk to the people who actually can do something and we'll do something. So he left quite a legacy Larry Kramer, the world is sorry place without him right now in my opinion. And he was also brilliant playwright. Play called the normal heart which you may or may not know about it's extraordinarily we'll be right back. Minneapolis burning angry demonstrations erupt over the video of the arrest that led to the death of George. Lloyd is this a protest, a riot or another example of a double standard in America? Come on now. The view from home these days, it gives the unpredictable. What's coming and that means neither to you. So let's start. This is going to be good, but this is still the only place in daytime below ladies view hit Martin. Where the biggest names have you heard it first on this show, this is the realist conversation on TV. So good we the people are the ones that have the power from their homes are for. The biggest challenge for us? You have to say what you're GONNA say shut up and we're not used. As we had the same innocent weird. The view all you ladies that's how we roll. Oh on ABC. Welcome back. It's protests last night protests were held in Minneapolis demanding justed justice for the arrest that led to the death of George Floyd, and our cops used tear gas fires and violence broke out and critics are calling it a riot, not a protest and the mayor. James Frye. said if he were white, he'd still be alive which I thought was very telling this is a mayor who happens to be white. What do you call it? Sunny Now I think I call it pain and fear and anger and frustration people need and want real social change a people that have been ignored for years in. Minnesota people who have been subjected to four hundred years of enslavement both in chains and and systematically at, and you know what? What struck me when I watched the police reaction to the protests we didn't see that kind of reaction would be when you had the antilock down protesters people were storming. Government buildings with guns and yelling in police officers faces. And putting them in danger. We didn't see this kind of reaction but the reaction that we see with these protestors fighting for social change protesting for social change rather is very different. We see. A Rubber bullets and tear gas and then people wonder. Why? There's this much anger and frustration. It's because of that disparity in treatment it. That's why I mean think about Colin Kaepernick he lost his career for fight for protesting for what happened to George. He lost his career Floyd lost his life. People are frustrated, right? So, joy scenes from last night familiar to you. and to you, whoopie. We have been around a while. I've seen this before I saw this watts i. saw it in Chicago after Martin Luther King died but I think that this is different. I don't think that this is not just about the police right now people are out of work millions of people are out of work. People are angry about the healthcare system in this country it's overrun. There's no leadership at the top. There's no plan there's nothing but Republicans in Congress refusing. To give more money to people who need it We're in a lot of trouble in this country and I pray I woke up so tearful today not just because Larry, died believe me I'm crying for this country I feel is that we are in so much trouble and I i. see what's going to happen unless something something comes about that that curtails this misery that we're in and I feel like we're in there's no plan in place there's no plan. Right Megan. You feel things are going to get worse before they get better. Is that correct? I Echo. Joins Sunny worth saying I think there's we talked about this yesterday there's an expectation when people are cooped up in their homes forty million people unemployed and then they see the murder of unarmed black man by a police officer and I think it was inevitable. I. Don't think it's ever justified to loot and steal but I do understand this happens in many instances over and over again whenever there's you huge huge crises and huge responses. I. Don't remember some of the instances un whoopy-doo joy. But I do remember Rodney King and it's amazing to me that it seems like we really haven't progressed that much since then and that happened by the way when I was eight years old and I think. That we're in a moment in time where I feel very hopeless, which is unusual for me because I'm such an optimist about American. I actually had a moment this week where I had to call whoopee before the show saying I. Just don't know if I can do this today and that I've never done that on the three years I've been on this show. So I can't imagine how people who are out of work and seeing these kind of videos or feeling, and I just hope for leadership with legislators in Minnesota which we are obviously not getting on the national level. I have to agree you guys I. Mean You know? Here's the thing I believe it's going to get better because. It has to I'm not going to sit by for very much of this. Anymore I don't think any of us are. So once we inspire each other, we inspire other people to get our behinds in gear because this is not GonNa Change unless we change it we'll be right back. He went viral forgetting this reaction to asking a woman to put her dog on a leash in new. York's Central Park African American band. For recording me. So. Christian Cooper joins the view to talk about starring in the video that captured the hazards end hate black men face in America next. It's so much on the line America. This is not gonNA change unless we changes the view is honored winner of the Emmy Award because now when it matters most, this is the place to be her the Emmy Award winning view on ABC. Hey. Welcome back. Chris Cooper is a Harvard graduate, a pioneering Comic Book Writer, and A. Bio Medical Editor for Health Science Communications. But a lot of America was introduced to him this week as a black man who asked a woman in New York Central. Park to leash dog while he was trying to bird watch and it was with this response there I've asking. Pleasing. please. Call the COPS. please. Call the. African American men threatening my life. There is an African American. Recording threaten like self in my dog. Threatened by Bannon to ramble. So joining us from New, York is Christian Cooper. From la his system melody who posted the viral, the video that went viral. Welcome to both of you I mean. You Walk in Central Park on Monday you come across the woman and her dog. And the is not least -sposed to be on a lease. So take us from that moment forward. Ramble is area of Central Park which is protected because there's a lot of wildlife there and a lot of delicate planting. So it's posted all over the ramble that dogs are supposed to be on the leash all. At but unfortunately we've had a problem with this for many many years and people think well, you know it doesn't really apply to me. So we've been twenty while get enforcement. So I'm walking with Harkin, and this dog is tearing through the planting and so I say the woman excuse me Ma'am but dogs in the ramble after Gumbo we time sign is right there next year and she's like, yeah but you know where the dog runs are closed and he needs to exercise. That, you can take him across the drive to this other part of Central Park right over there and let them run on each all you want outside the Ramboll until nine am he's just like, yeah, that's moment. It's evolved from there until. A lot of us have been recording these incidences of stock more behavioral, regarding, regarding the leash laws. And so I pulled out my. documented. So that we would have. Some evidence of what's going on in the Rambo and she didn't like. She didn't want to point and I was pretty adamant that long. The colletion I was GonNa keep with Gordon. So that's when she said if you keep recording me during the call, the police and Dublin African American man is threatening my life. And I'm like. Yeah. So You know at that point. Let me take. Your wife capitulate to that attempt to use a race to leverage wanted or do I sort of stick to my guns and keep recording and I really kinda decided consciously I'm not gonNA participate in my own humanization I'm GonNa just keep doing what I'm doing is. Anybody else and she's GonNa. Do. Not. What Happened Yeah Right You. Posted this video on your twitter page and went viral and created quite a stir. Tell me what is your reaction or response to? The fact that the video has received so much attention it's all over the place and The girl has lost. The woman has lost her job also, and what was your response to of that? Well. I was, I, was shocked I'm I'm fairly political on twitter. But when I saw my brothers video, it was personal and I just imagine what happened to Mike Brown or George Floyd happening to him and make sure no other black person. Would have to go through that kind of weapons recommendation of racism from her and I wanted to shine light on it, and there's been a response from around the country around the world. and. For me. What's important is that there's there's a discussion about this now and it did. China light on the problem I just. Wanted to have happened in the first place in this racist can kill you. Could've killed brother and a lot. There were comments about his his education and his job as being for the reason why there's been such a big response to nine understand that because every black life is is important on his valuable. But if the cops showed up, they wouldn't have seen his resume or known his job you know if they put him in a chokehold in. Megan. Well a Christian since the video was released amy has lost her job. Her dog was taken away by their shelter that she adopted from and she says, she has been getting death threats. You have said that you're conflicted about what's happening to her can you tell us why? First of all about the death threats been unequivocal about that ever since I've done that James Getting. It's important and it is contrary if you think that what she did was wrong that she was trying to bring death by cop down on my head then there is absolutely no way you can justify then turning around and putting a. Threat on her head. So that's gotTa stop. That's that's not acceptable. Everything else that's happened to were you know I I just? I don't. I'm uncomfortable with the finding someone by a couple of seconds of what they've done you as a structural situation. She had a moment of very poor judgment. Would? No. No. Excusing that it was a racist at because it was racist at. But does that define her entire life? I don't know only she can tell us if that defines her entire life by what she does going forward and what she's done in the past. I can answer that. So the the is is a makes me uncomfortable. Christian. Amy has issued an apology that said in part I want to apologize to a Chris Cooper for my actions when I encountered him in Central Park, she says, I reacted emotionally and made false assumptions about his intentions when in fact I was the one who was acting inappropriately by not having my dog on a leash. I hope that a few mortifying seconds and a lifetime of forty years will not define me in his eyes and that he will accept my sincere apology. Do you accept her apology? sceptre apology it's it's. A. It's a I snap I. Think he's got to do. Some reflection on what happened because you know up until the moment when she made that statement and made that phone call, it was just a conflict between burder the dog. And then she took it to a very dark place and I think she's got a sort of examine why and how that happened and I wanNA move it a little bit beyond her because it's not really about her and her poor judgment in snap second it's about the underlying current of racism and racial perceptions that has been going on for centuries. Hermitage the city and this country that she tapped into, and so that's what we really have to address. You know not specific. Superb. But why why are we still played with that in? How do we fix it? Well it is systemic. I'll not on lie had a whole big thing to say but. I just WanNa to say thank you for coming both of you and. Maybe, we'll make a better person maybe this will all make a better person and maybe it starts with one person. Thank y'all for coming we'll be right back. Could Memorial Day crowds ignite a second wave of corona virus how effective are masks and what's a realistic time line on a vaccine? One of America's leading experts on Covid nineteen Dr Michael Oester home on the realities of reopening during the pandemic next. The view is sponsored by indeed taking a trip to the bank is the last thing business owners need to be thinking about is a free online business checking account with no minimum balance and no fees, and you can apply in as little as ten minutes. Money magazine called them the best business banking option for freelancers and entrepreneurs sign up right now with no minimum deposit at as low dot com slash view and get a free copy of as low small business. Starter Guide spelled as E. L., dot, com slash view. Welcome back the swarming crowds on Memorial Day weekend. Made it clear that people are in a rush to get back to normal? So right now, one of the leading voices on the corona virus is here with a reality check about the risks of opening or reopening the country please welcome infectious disease expert and author of deadliest enemy our war against killer germs Dr. Michael. oester home. So. First of all welcome Abusir back in two thousand five you like many. Folks like yourself scientists people who are looking. said a pandemic like this one was going to come and that time was running out and that we needed to prepare for it. So now that we didn't prepare and the grim milestone of one, hundred, thousand deaths in the US has happened. Is there any end in sight or are we going to be living with corona virus for a long time? I. WanNa. Thank you for having me. Let me just say to put this into perspective were not for the second of the night indicate, and that's an important concept. Keep in mind if we talk about being prepared or get respond about five percent of the US. Population Day have been infected with this virus some areas like New York City naturally higher across the board about five percent. This fighters will not slow announced France motion intelligence about sixty or seventy percent of the population infected in developing some immunity or we get back vaccine that had published that same year seventy percent. So we have to understand with all the pain all it suffering Dow. And Economic Disruption we've had to date were just beginning with this. We have understand this is going to be many many more months what we have to deal with. Dr All fifty states have reopened at least partially at this point, and now the number of new cases are on the rise in approximately seventeen states, which is concerning but yesterday Dr Fao g sounded pretty optimistic and said that a second wave in the fall is not necessarily an inevitability. Do you agree with that? Are Sooner put out a document several weeks ago, looking at general scenario from that five to sixty or seventy percent level on how that might occur. This is a grow buyer is not a flu virus, which is the past experience we've had. been largely around flu. So. In a sense, we're not sure how do that sure has economic within virus today and in those that document we have three different scenarios might have it was Akwa. Virus again with no experience, maybe it'll just be hostile ican ballot of this kind of what we're seeing right now is happening where we see hotspots like we're seeing in south. America right now in Africa. Some areas of the United States or maybe just what I would call basically a slow burn where it just doesn't go away but it just stayed. Third option is the one that concerned very much and that's why I'm we're based on historic data for ood pandemic. We see I lay off last two or three months geographically it's the spurs but not heavy in any one area. Occasionally, one city might have more cases than another and then it goes away literally those Dharma we don't know why we don't know. What happens to it and we go through two or three months quiet everyone thinks how we won and then it comes back with a vengeance in that second way as what happened in the eighteen and so we far right now in uncharted earthly, he don't know what's going to happen I worry if we suddenly saw the decrease faces that would action signal maybe Wires that may sound power intuitive I don't like cases. People to get sick or die but I surely don't want to see. It looked like a flu virus experience because that the devastating come late summer early fall. Doctor, we saw the crowds gathering at pack beaches, pools, this Memorial Day weekend, no mass, no social distancing people from the now infamous party at the lake of the ozarks have been asked to voluntarily self quarantine for fourteen days. But still how far back does this type of behavior set us I know I've been very concerned about the the behavior of so many people who don't seem to realize just how deadly this disease can be. Really doubted in perspective we have to understand that in fact. Nothing has done what the viruses done since nineteen eight. And if you look back, you'll see that eighty five days ago. This conceive without even the top seventy five. Last month a number of days it was the number one hundred. Per Mad so you're right. This is a huge issue. The challenge we have is we're going to be an old trade see Matz our more how we gonNA respond we can't be in lockdown. What we actually out what does people high risk? I'm happy to report that they're very little evidence and outdoors activities posted anywhere near the same was indoor activities so that somehow we can't lockdown for eighteen months. We can't the same time with this from Willy Nilly. So we're all trying to figure out how do we help guide? Through this and and I worry about seeing March balance together. Right now, I would also were if I saw out in the case of started route because it would go to the point that I just made split. Fires. And so we're on shared surgeries in. We've gotTA figure it out and we can't accept the fact that this guy go away. It's not. Yeah, that's very important and today news came out that six feet may not even be enough to stop. Enough distance to stop the transmission of that virus. What are your thoughts on that? I actually agree our center has. been promoting this issue of protecting yourself as the key measure that we all can accept. The check. Assam. Degrade five of business in Texas but we can protect ourselves. This libraries has a very major component of transmission called Aerosol. Every time I speak I'm taking little hundreds of thousands of little tiny microscopic drop they're coming out of my mouth until in this world if you want know Mirasol looks like think about the last time you saw the subway I mean your house and you looked in that sun being all my I would thus be house those are floating of same things go into a department. Store. Your four miles away and smell perfume that's an aerosol. Every time we sweet that happens if you're in my office serve me right now in these speaking for a couple of minutes early air assaults here. So it is more than sixty however the closer you are someone and the further away get the risk dropshots fanshawe an outdoors is much less than it is indoors where there are the virus stays in rooms and it's only changed with the chain of doors of win of the movement air itself with disobeyed. quickly. That's why being or right now is one of the safest place to be. Well. So we're GONNA come back with more with Dr Home we come back. Welcome back. We're back with Dr Michael Oster home joy. So so dr decision whether to wear a mask seems to have become a political debate. Even though it's been proven to slow the spread of the virus trump refuses to follow CDC guidelines and where one in public he even mocked Vice President Joe Biden. For wearing one. Tell me you worried about the messaging coming out of the White House Sir. First of all I. Regret that it's. Kind. Of An issue, we need to keep it as a science. That's how I approach things will continue to. I think that mask masking play a role in reducing the transmission of this virus. But think at the same time there's been a effort made to put mass forward as the solution in there or not. It is about distancing are we have calculated for example, if you had someone who was infected with the virus had cloth masks which remember leaks out of the sites, it's not. Back factor this Michelle funnier these aerosols we just talked about lead usually out of the science. So I'm standing next to a personal as a mascot, their infective or intern I'm affected they're not within two minutes you will transmit the virus official enough level transmission and they become infected. If, both people have now signed. That's four minutes that truly is a hell. But as you can see, that's not the answer it's about just. It's a combination with masks, Washington's and is again about you putting yourself in the position of being around a number of people that can transmit to you. So I think we need to bring this whole issue back. It is not the overall answer that some who have never studied aerosol science are according at the same time. When you can do anything to reduce the risk s import. So let me just just want to ask you a personal question I. Let's Say I'm going to the doctor next week or somebody WHO's watching has to go to the doctor is it safe to go to the doctor if he's wearing a mask shea and I'm wearing a mask and we're washing our hands is that Cole or not? Just got done Sharon review that one of your infected enrolled the other two minutes more. You'll likely transferred to each other on the other hand. The Shirley is better than not having suffered factional that transmission was much. So. Will you ask insane nothing around this denic right now state is it safe for what can we do to reduce the risk distancing as key if you're in fact, illness shouldn't be at work if you're ill going there should be a caller call how you are seen and that risk is reduced. When you're in the doctor's office, we're seeing patients all the time with infectious diseases whether measles chickenpox or in this case covid nineteen. So area office should have all to make sure that that risk is reduced between you and the punishing senior. Thank you our thanks to Dr Michael us to how we will be right back. Thank you. Well, that's it for today you know. It's Thursday we want everybody to. Look out the window if able to go outside, take a deep breath and be glad that you're still alive we want you to take a little time also to enjoy the view and don't forget to wash your hands.

twitter Central Park America Megan McCain president facebook George Floyd Larry Kramer CEO Mark Zuckerberg Christian Cooper York Dr Michael Oester Minneapolis Martin Luther King Elizabeth Taylor ABC Minnesota James Frye.
Stacey Lannert Pt. 2

Crimes of Passion

43:40 min | 6 months ago

Stacey Lannert Pt. 2

"Due to the graphic nature of these crimes listener discretion as buys D- This episode includes discussions of sexual abuse violence and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. Eighteen year old Stacie Leonard Sat with her head in her hands inside the cold interrogation. Room. Through the spaces between her fingers she saw the detectives looking at her with narrow suspicious is. They didn't understand. They couldn't fathom what she'd been through. She thought about her little sister Christy. Officers had taken her into custody to. The idea of the sixteen year old going to jail meet Stacey, stomach lurch. After a minute of silence. One of the detectives finally offered Stacey a weak smile and tried to sweet talk her. E Prime Minister, he could help if she told him the truth. But Stacey couldn't tell him what had really happened. All she could say, was that her father her she wouldn't give details. The last decade had been one long unspeakable nightmare. She was too ashamed to admit what happened in that house. The detective side and said. If you don't take the blame it's going to look bad for your sister. At that stacey sat up street locking is Solti. She responded. I'll tell you whatever you want. Just let her go. Hi. I'm Lena Hobbs and this is crimes of passion a podcast original in the legal definition. A crime of passion is violent crime that occurs in the throes of extreme emotion leaving no time to reflect on the consequences. But in this show, we explore how passionate relationship sometimes lead us to criminal activity. How does a husband and wife become killer and victim or killer and co-conspirator? If there's a thin line between love and hate what manipulates our relationships into deadly results. You can find episodes of crimes of passion and all other park has two originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. To stream crimes of passion for free on spotify, just open the APP and type crimes of passion in the search bar. Last week, we discuss stacey landlords relationship with her father, Tom. Beginning. When she was just eight years old Tom Sexually Abuse Stacey. For over a decade. Her only consolation was that her little sister Christy was spared. However on July Fourth Nineteen Ninety Tom Raped sixteen old Christie for the first time. To Stacey it became a tipping point. Her father had finally gone too far. This week, we'll see how stacy's anger and resentment finally boiled over. We'll discuss the resulting crime and the glaring injustice at the subsequent trial. Will also explore how stacey persevered and managed to turn a lifetime of abuse into a message of hope. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. On the afternoon of July Fourth, nineteen ninety sixteen old Christie Leonard insulted her father forty four year old Tom after he refused to give her money for a haircut. In any other household, the matter would be trivial but Tom who was unstable drunk and sadistic reacted with violence. He threatened to kill Stacy's UPI Caitlin then pulled Christie into his bedroom and raped her. Eighteen year old stacey slammed her into the locker door powerless to protect her sister from their father's abuse. When the ordeal was over, Christie escaped her father's room and ran outside with stacy the two of them jumped in the car. But before they zoomed away, stacy stopped in her tracks. She couldn't just leave. Without a fight. Stacey stormed back into her father's home determined to give him a piece of her mind. He ruined his daughters lives. He destroyed the people he was supposed to love and protect. She was going to make him understand the horror of what he'd done. As soon as she stepped through the door, however her resolve suddenly faltered. Painful memories came rushing to the surface and drain the energy right out of her. Instead of pounding on her father's bedroom door, she collapsed onto the living room couch and sobbed into a pillow. Then out of nowhere the sound of a gunshot cut through her English. Stacey froze. A second blast followed suit and she snapped up. Behind her Amir foot above her head to bullets had torn through the wall. On the other side of the room, her father smirked at her brandishing a twenty, two caliber rifle the barrel was still smoking. There was nowhere for her to run stacey stared at her father too stunned to move. She thought he would shoot again at any moment, but he made no move to fire. Instead, he lowered the rifle, leaned it against the wall and walked away. Stacy. Listen to her father's footsteps recede as he returned to his room. For another moment, she sees still as a statue. After. He shut the bedroom door stacey tiptoed back outside were Christie. was still sitting in the car. The two of them spent out of the neighborhood, not quite sure where they were headed. After. Driving in circles for awhile. In, Christie decided to go to the VP fair an Independence Day celebration in Saint Louis. Although, they just experienced incredible trauma. The sisters acted like everything was normal as they headed to the fair to meet with some friends. Before I continue with their psychology. Please note I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but I have done a lot of research for the show. A two thousand twelve article written by psychologists and psychiatrists from Duke University, and the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor Allen the different coping strategies commonly utilized by victims of sexual abuse. In this case, Stacey and Christie were suppressing their emotions which is known as avoidance coping. Though. She'd endured more than ten years of torture stacy. Had never told her sister that Tom. Raped, her. Neither of them had confided the details about their father's physical and sexual abuse to anyone. There avoidance copying left them emotionally isolated even from each other. According to the article evidence seems to suggest that avoiding coping may be particularly detrimental with regard to the development of future psychiatric. And sexually abused children. Researchers hypothesized that avoidance coping may stop victims from seeking outside support, making it more difficult to cope with and he'll from trauma. At the time however neither stacey nor Christie realized how distant and alone they really felt. In her book Redemption Stacey wrote. We were accustomed to living with terror inside our house. Then we'd walk out of our Hellhole and act like everything was okay. But things weren't okay at the VIP fair Stacey and Christie drink together hoping to forget what had happened. Then they went out to eat and stated a friend's house until around eleven pm when stacy was sober enough to drive. She originally planned to get a hotel room, but then had a terrible realization. In her rush to get away from Tom, she left Kaitlan the puppy back at the house. She had to go back to save the dog. She was sure Tom would kill it if he hadn't already. The two of them arrived back at the house around midnight. Stacey meant to slip in and out as fast as possible. But once they got inside Christie went to grab some of her stuff from her room. Tom was passed out on the couch. Stacey didn't want to think about what might happen if he woke up. Christie ran her bedroom while she was gone stacey notice Tom's rifle leaning against the wall where he left it. Stacey watched her father sleep. He made her sick. There were too many emotions, guilt rage shame and hatred sort through her head spun the world, a spiral of pain. She had no idea what she and Christy were going to do. They could afford a hotel for a few nights, but it wouldn't take long for their money to run out then she knew they'd end up back at Tom's house because nobody else was there to help them. She was desperate as long as Tom libs Stacey thought she and Christy would never be safe. They could run but he'd find a way to hunt them down. There was nowhere to hide. Stacy looked at the rifle then Tom. Snoring on the couch she was defenseless as he would ever be. Stacey. Grab The gun not letting herself think about the consequences. She just raised the rifle, closed her eyes and pulled the trigger. The bullet ripped through Tom Shoulder Stacey opened her eyes to see him bolt. Upright, blood gushing from the wound. He Winston pain then screamed at Stacey to call an ambulance. But. was done listening to him. She fired the rifle again. Then dropped it on the floor between them. As she watched the blood cover Tom's torso stacey immediately regretted what she done. While her father doubled over in pain, she scrambled to grab the phone, but it wasn't an its usual spot. She turned around and ran down to the basement frantically searching. Halfway down the stairs she remembered what had happened. Before Tom had dragged Christie into his bedroom, he ripped all the telephone wires out of the wall. So Stacey couldn't call for help all the hatred returned in an instant drowning out her sympathy. Tom had sealed his own fate from the basement she could hear him cursing. But by the time she got back upstairs he passed out on the couch probably from a combination of drunkenness and blood loss. Stacey. Pick the rifle back up. She fired a third shot straight into her father's head he died instantly. Cristea. Rushed out of her room and screened Stacey couldn't tell her exactly what had happened it was already becoming a blur to her. She knew she'd done a terrible thing. But she also knew that Tom was never going to hurt her or her sister ever again. They were finally safe. Stacey grabbed her puppy and the rifle off the floor and ran outside. She put the gun into the trunk and then she in Christie sped away from the scene. When we return police find Tom's body. Hey Park Astor's starting October. First, we're bringing you the scariest most hair-raising ghost stories ever imagined every Thursday on the all new original series haunted places go stories, Alistair murdered summons, a new spine, tingling tale of rates, phantoms, and chilling apparitions. These stories come from all over the world including Japan India the UK and even in Rome. Don't miss stone cold classics like the Kit Bad Algernon blackwood a sinister account of a condemned murderers final wish and the links go to fulfil it and the misery a Spanish tale of a wandering musician who here's a terrifyingly beautiful song and a burned-out monastery and is doomed to capture. It's notes until he dies. You can find and follow haunted places go stories free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget October is our favorite month and one of our busiest. So make sure to search podcast network in the spotify search bar to see all our new shows. If something is interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, better help online counseling can help. Better health offers licensed professional counselors who specialize issues that can affect your mental health and well-being. You. Can get help with things like depression anxiety stress lgbt matters, family conflicts, grief self esteem, and many other areas. You can connect with your professional counselor in a safe in private online environment. You'll get timely thoughtful responses plus you can schedule a weekly video or phone sessions plus anything you share is confidential. There's no rush you can get help on your own time and at your own pace and better help is more affordable than traditional off line counseling and they even offer financial aid. It's so convenient. You can start communicating with your counselor and under twenty four hours without ever having to set an uncomfortable waiting room. So many people have been using better help that they are recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. Start living a happier life today as listener, you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash passion join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better. Help H. E. L. P. dot com slash passion. Now back to the story. Forty four year old Tomlin or sexually abused and raped his oldest daughter eighteen year old stacey for nearly a decade. On the afternoon of July? Fourth Nineteen Ninety he raped his younger daughter sixteen year old Christie for the first time. In the early morning hours of July fifth stacy shot and killed Tom and his home she and Christy then fled the scene. Stacey jumped Christie and her puppy Caitlyn off at a friend's house where she knew they'd be safe but she had no idea what to do next. She needed to talk to someone she trusted. Around four thirty am she drove to her friend Ron's house for help he offered to drive her car to a nearby river to dump the evidence. Meanwhile. Another friend Jason came to pick. Stacey and Christie up together they formed a plan. Jason, agreed to drop the sisters off back at their father's house where they would pretend to find tom dead then ran to a neighbor for help. The idea wasn't exactly foolproof as soon as stacey saw her father's body she got dizzy. She managed to get a neighbor to call the police, but by the time officers arrived both sisters were sick with guilt. Their cover story was clearly ally within minutes. The JIG was up. Officers Hand Cup Stacey and Christie and brought them in for questioning. Seeing her sister in custody broke stacy's heart. Tom's death was her fault. The idea that her sister face consequences for her islands was too much to handle. However when detectives question Stacey. Trouble putting her motivation into words. Detective Solti had experience with domestic violence victims and could tell stacy had been abused. But when he tried to prompt her for information, she only answered him vaguely. In the past stacy's cries for help had been met with indifference or further pain she had no reason to believe this time would be any different. In Stacy's own words. I could hardly speak let alone tell a high school stranger a man what had been through. But when Solti reminded stacey of her sisters position, she opened up not about the abuse but about the crime. She took full responsibility for Tom's death and beg the detectives to let her sister go. By midnight on July Fifth Stacey was formally arrested and sent to the Saint Louis County jail. Despite her attempts to absolve her sister Christy was also put in juvenile detention. Stacey lay on the metal bed completely exhausted. She'd been up for nearly twenty four hours and needed to sleep. But when she closed her eyes, all she saw was her father a rick to smile plastered on his face. A part of Stacey couldn't believe Tom was really dead. It seemed like he was all around her just waiting to pounce as soon as she let her guard down. She, worried that if she fell asleep, she would wake to find him standing inside her cell or worse lying beside her in bed. Stacey thought she would be free from all the sphere once she fired the gun. Show killed Tom because it seemed like the only way to escape him. But even now he haunted her from beyond his grave. During the night stacey was kept awake by nightmares and flashbacks during the day her thoughts never strayed far from Cristea. Although. She missed her sister terribly stacy's lawyers assured her. It was a good thing that the state put Christie juvenile detention. In meant, she was being treated as a minor and likely face a much lesser charge if she was prosecuted at all. But the lawyers were wrong in late August. The state decided to charge sixteen year old Christie as an adult. After almost two months Kristie was transferred to the Saint Louis County jail and the sisters were reunited. It was anything but a joyous occasion. All it meant was that Christie was facing possible prison time. Shortly after their mother Debra came to visit her daughters for the first time. Instead of comforting them. Stern she wanted to know exactly what happened on July fourth. When Stacy didn't offer swift answers deborah lashed out. She blamed Stacey for everything especially sixteen year old Christie's incarceration. Stacey solve read. Deborah. Was the only person who could have saved her and Christy She could have asked more questions paid more attention, even flown stacy and Christina Guam and freed them from Tom Forever. But. She didn't she chose not to. Instead, she lunged across the table ready to claw her mother. Another inmate had to hold her back. Deborah left the visiting area after that she stacy wouldn't speak for nearly two years. During that time Stacey and Christie had to navigate legal proceedings with almost no familial support. Police still unaware of the extent of Tom's abuse. Assume the sisters conspire to kill their father to inherit his estate. Because his mother had recently died Tom Assets were valued at around five hundred thousand dollars. Although sixteen year old Christie didn't want a penny from her father. She was so nervous during interrogation that she simply told police what they wanted to hear. Ultimately Christie was cowed into accepting a plea bargain. She pled guilty to conspiracy to commit murder in return for five year sentence. In January of Nineteen ninety-one about seven months after Tom's murder seventeen year old Christie was transferred to Rennes Correctional Institution, in Cedar City Missouri. St To was offered a plea bargain. If she admitted to committing the murder for monetary gain, she would serve just fifteen years. But Stacy refused murdering her father was the worst thing she'd ever done from that moment forward she wanted to be better. She would rather spend the rest of her life in bars than agree to a false story. Still a mental block kept her from being completely honest about the abuse she had endured. According to Dr Christine Grogan an author and professor who wrote about Stacy's case reluctance to break the silence regarding father daughter incest is quite common. Indeed, Dr Grogan writes that in at least one other case of daughter killing an abusive father the daughter pleaded guilty to avoid recounting the past in front of a judge and jury. The decision to choose silence over possible freedom was likely influenced by numerous factors. But according to an article published in the National Women's Studies, Association, Journal the pain and shame inflicted by sexual abuse have silencing fax. Although Stacey was able to say her father sexually abused her shame guilt and fear her from giving specific details to her lawyers this intern harm defense. It was over two years before Stacey actually went to trial in the meantime she searched for small moments of happiness at the Saint Louis. County. Jail. She started seeing a court appointed counselor who gave her a workbook called the courage to heal. The workbook change stacy's life. showed her that what Tom did to her wasn't her fault. It helped her view herself as a survivor, not just a victim. Because of what the Book Taught, her Stacey was able to begin the long and arduous process of forgiving herself. She also rediscovered her love for her mother, a bomb that Tom had been chipping away at since Stacey was a toddler. Stacey wrote her mother a letter and reconnected with Deborah as the date of her trial approached. Two weeks before twenty year old stacie appeared in court in October of Nineteen ninety-two she got wonderful news. Eighteen year old crusty had been released from prison after serving just half of her five year sentence. Stacey couldn't have been happier. Although Stacey was haunted by her actions on July Fourth Christie's release meant that all the suffering of the last two years had an entirely been in vain. With the possibility of a life sentence still hanging over her head Stacey accepted that she may have given up her own life so that Christie could live hers. Before she entered the courtroom on October Twenty Seventh Nineteen ninety-two Stacey new things looked bad. She needed to make a compelling testimony to convince the jury that she killed her father and Self-defense. But according to Stacey, she still couldn't use the word rape. Even after completing the workbook her shame and guilt overwhelmed her. It was one thing to talk about her past with her psychologist but it was something else entirely to tell a room full of strangers what she'd been through. She couldn't bring herself to testify on her own behalf. Unfortunately her public defender didn't know the severity of the abuse so they couldn't testify effectively either. There was no physical evidence. That could definitively prove what Tom did in stacy's inability to provide details made it possible for the prosecution to argue that she was making it all up. To make matters worse the prosecuting attorney's boss was a man who had a reputation for letting sex offenders off easy. Although. It hasn't been proven that Robert McCulloch, the prosecuting attorney's boss new thome personally they both frequented the same bar and were members of the same social circle. Stacy's old Babysitter Wendy and her court appointed psychologists both testified that she had been sexually abused. But macculloch argued that the courage to heal workbook planted false memories of abuse in Stacy's head McCullough claim that Tom was a drunk and violent man but that didn't make him a rapist. McCullough openly called Stacey a bald faced liar and insisted that she killed her father in cold blood. He wanted the twenty year old who he sat murdered her father for his five hundred thousand dollar state prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Anyone who knew stacy and Christie knew how tenuous prosecutions argument was Tom Hadn't been able to keep a job since he got divorced the assets he did have weren't liquid and it's unclear whether or not Stacey and Christie even knew how much money they could have inherited. Nevertheless. The prosecution argued that stacy was planning a hit on her father. When he didn't work out, they said, she decided to kill Tom. Stacy's violence had been motivated by self preservation, but it was difficult to defend in court since her father was asleep when she first shot him, there was technically no threat of imminent danger. In an attempt to argue insanity expert psychologists testified that stacy was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and associated disorder a condition that caused her to lose memory and awareness allowing her to detach from her body and leave reality to cope with abuse. DISSOCIATION can help one cope with trauma, but it can also detach one from the consequences of their actions. According to criminologist and professor Dr Kathleen and. Stacy's combination of PTSD and association meant that it was highly unlikely that she could access the higher article processes of the brain associated with thinking deliberation and judgment and formulate the intend to hurt her father. The jury however wasn't interested and why Stacey pull the trigger even if she had been suffering from PTSD and dissociation, she still murdered Tom and that was all that seemed to matter. After five hours of deliberation jurors returned the verdict Stacey Leonard was guilty of first degree murder. Stacey waited over a month to receive her formal sentence in the meantime she kept up with Christie who had since finished her ged and gotten a job as a waitress. Unsurprisingly Christie, continue to struggle emotionally and psychologically. Her relationship with stacy became strained as she found it difficult to speak to her older sister. She was overwhelmed with guilt because she was a sibling who walked free. Stacey was more than ever in December of Nineteen ninety-two when judge Steven H Goldman handed down her sentence life in prison without the possibility of parole. It was by all accounts except the prosecutions and excessively harsh punishment. Judge Goldman himself said the decision was severe for twenty year old and that a conventional life sentence would have been more appropriate. Usually parole is only withheld when inmates are likely to reoffend if released. And refusing stacey the possibility of parole the prosecution characterized her as a dangerous criminal, rather than a young woman driven to violence after a decade of abuse. Stacey tried to appeal case but to no avail. After that, she decided that she couldn't spent her life dwelling on what could have been. She knew that although Tom pushed her to make her bed, she still had to lion it. Up Next Stacy tries to find a way out of prison. This. Episode of Crimes Of Passion is brought to you by simply safe. Everybody wants to feel safe in their home. The best way to get that sense of security is with simply safe. It was designed to be easy to use. So protecting your whole home twenty, four seven has never been simpler. You can order online with a click of a button wants arrives just opened the box places sensors and plug it in. Now, your home is protected around the clock. As a new homeowner making sure my home is secured of the importance to me. So the fact that I could easily install simply safe myself and get such great protection was a big relief. Plus I don't have to worry about any outrageous monthly fees or two year contracts. In fact, simply safe's professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at just fifty cents a day. It's a great deal for what the US News and World Report called the Best Overall Home Security of twenty at simplisafe dot com slash passion, and get a free hd camera. That's SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash passion to make sure they know that are show sent you. Now back to the story. After murdering her sexually abusive Father Twenty Year Old Stacey Leonard was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole in December of Nineteen Ninety two. She was incarcerated at Rennes Correctional Institution, the same place her younger sister Christy had recently been released from. It was a battle to stay positive inside on one hand. Stacey was glad to be free from the abuse that defined her childhood. Although, she still had nightmares and flashbacks. She knew Tom couldn't physically hurt her anymore. She focused on healing by connecting with other survivors. Her mother Deborah frequently mailed her the survivors of incest anonymous newsletter in Stacey inspired by the story she read eventually published an article about her own experience with psychological dissociation. She felt good after working on the article, but struggled to find a greater sense of purpose behind bars. Her life was essentially at a dead end. Accepting, her faith became more and more difficult as the reality of a life sentence again. Five years past than six, then seven. Even. as she approached eight years behind bars stacey stayed in contact with her lawyers hoping they would help her find a way out. Unfortunately, they all guarantee. Her sentence would be upheld even if she tried to appeal. An appellate courts judges do not hear new evidence or witness testimony. Instead, they simply make sure laws were applied properly in the original trial. Without increased expert testimony on her psychological condition, it was highly unlikely Stacey sentence whatever be overturned. There was however one more option she could ask the governor of Missouri, Mel Carnahan for clemency. Stacy completed her petition into Carnahan toward the end of his term in the year two thousand. She explained that she had been driven to commit murder by a decade of severe, sexual and psychological abuse. Although, she couldn't put words to it at eighteen years old she had been suffering from battered child syndrome or BCS. According to Dr Henry Kemp who first coined the term in nineteen sixty two battered child syndrome is a clinical condition in young children who have received serious physical abuse. At the time however, Dr Kemp focused on the physical manifestations of BCS. was mainly used in court as a way to prosecute child abusers. It would take decades before the psychological effects of. LIKE PTSD anxiety dissociation hyper vigilance and nightmares were researched. Just a year after Stacy's trial the first judicial decision validating the use of battered child syndrome as a defense for murder was written. In nineteen ninety two stacey situation was somewhat unprecedented by two thousand. However, it seemed clear that the harsh sentence she received was a miscarriage of justice. According to an article in Saint Louis magazine Governor Carnahan had every intention of granting stacey her freedom but he died in October of two thousand before had a chance to sign the papers and formerly commute her sentence. Stacey was devastated but she wouldn't be deterred. Her freedom was so close she could almost touch it. After Carnahan's death a new governor Bob Holden took office. Although. It would be almost four years until he was up for reelection Stacey filed her petition once again and early two, thousand one. The following year she did an interview with Glamour Magazine Drama Public Sympathy for her case. She was nervous to discuss her past with such a big media outlet, but according to her lawyers popular support can make or break her clemency petition. The Glamour article included a section entitled was Stacey Leonard Sentenced to harsh that included similar cases and their verdicts all of which were more merciful than Stacy's. The author of the article and the CO author of Stacy's biography Kristen. Kemp pointed out that cece sentence was almost unimaginably harsh. When looked at through the Lens of legal precedents. People who murder their parents after prolonged abuse almost never re-offend and benefit much more from psychological counseling than imprisonment. Stacey was not a violent person. There was no reason for her to stay in jail. Soon. After Glamour published Essy's interview people all around the country knew her name as Bob Holden approach the end of his term in two thousand, four stacey waited with bated breath to receive word from the governor. Olden commuted the sentences of a few Missouri inmates but Stacey wasn't one of them. In fact, he ignored stacy's petition altogether. At thirty, two years, old stacey had been in prison for a total of fourteen years and it looked like that was just the beginning. After Governor Holden refused to commute her sentence stacey. Fell into a depression that seemed impossible to fight off. Powerlessness was pervasive behind bars. The only sense of agency she had came from small choices. She could make throughout the day things like whether she wore her hair up or down or what color sock she put on. Stacey tried to cope as well as she could and her free time she trained service dogs and taught fitness classes. Deborah Christie came to visit her every so often and she lived for these moments of connection with the outside world. But even. So when the evening came, she bitterly watch sitcoms in the common area and envy the families laughing together on television. Stacy's lawyers encouraged her to stay strong for every governor that left office a new one entered. Matt Blunt a younger, and perhaps more merciful man than Bob Holden was elected in two thousand five. Despite everything she'd been through stacy herself to feel hopeful. She filed her clemency petition for the third time and waited with bated breath. Matt Blunt was up for Re election in two thousand eight when stacy was thirty six years old. Most governors commuted sentences on Thanksgiving or Christmas. But both holidays passed with no word. Stacey felt the bitterness return. Governor Carnahan had been ready to grant her freedom eight years prior it wasn't fair that Holden in blunt didn't honor his decision after his death. New Year's Day. Two thousand nine came and went without a whisper from governor blunt. Stacey resigned herself to the fact that she'd be waiting at least another four years for freedom. Then, on Saturday January tenth two, thousand nine as she was reading a magazine and the common area, an officer called her to the front office over the loudspeaker. Stacey, stomach dropped at the sound of her name. She assumed she'd done something wrong during the morning headcount to get yourself in trouble. She shuffled to the front office staring down at her feet. But when she arrived, there was no grim punishment waiting. Instead an officer told her she had an important call. A small bud of hope bloomed in Stacey when she picked up the phone, her hands shook with anticipation. When she heard her lawyers voice on the other end of the line, her heart skipped a beat. covernor blend had just ordered her immediate release from prison. The phone almost slipped right out of stacy's hand. For a moment, she couldn't speak. Then she started bawling. For so long Stacey had felt nothing but guilt. She believed the Abusir father put her through was her own fault. She felt responsible for Christie's imprisonment. She regretted pulling the trigger on Tom Every single day. But Governor blunts decision to commute her sentence meant she'd been punished long enough. If the state could forgive her she could forgive herself. On January sixteenth two, thousand, nine, Stacey walked free. Her Mother Deborah I came to pick her up and hugged her tightly over the next few months Deborah and others help stacy get back on her feet. It was difficult to adjust the world had changed drastically between nineteen ninety, two, two, thousand, nine. Stacey change to. Prison. Didn't have mirrors the last time she'd seen her own reflection. She'd been a skinny twenty year old her face and body were so different she hardly recognize them as her own. Less, than six months after her release, Stacey was invited to do an interview on the Oprah Winfrey show. She used her platform to tell her story an advocate for victims. According to Stacey abuse could not be stopped until it was brought to light when Oprah looked at stacy with sympathy and understanding Stacey felt for the first time in her life entirely redeemed. Sometimes. When she was out in public people recognized her from her photographs in Glamour or her interview on Oprah. All of the feedback she got was positive. People didn't look at her with disgust the way she wants looked at herself. They were happy. She was home. Today Stacey lives with her long term partner Elliot Freeman and Maplewood Missouri. She runs a nonprofit for victims of sexual abuse called healing sisters. In addition to her charitable work, Stacey attended law school and now has a career as a public defender. It has been difficult for Deborah Stacey and Christie to rebuild the relationships especially with the publicity surrounding Stacy's imprisonment and release. But all three Leonard Women have worked on healing together. Christie is now married with a daughter of her own coming into her new role as a mother has helped her reconnect with her family. Stacy doesn't regret the year she spent in prison in her own words. I regret the actions that led me there but I really like who I have become. Having that behind me, it moves me forward. Thanks again, for tuning into crimes of passion, we'll be back Wednesday with another episode. Among the mini sources we use for this episode, we found redemption a story of sisterhood survival and finding freedom behind bars by Stacey Leonard in Kristen, Kemp extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of crimes of passion and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not, only to spotify already have all of your favorite music Banal spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like crimes of passion for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker. To stream crimes of passion on spotify, just open the APP and type crimes of passion in the search. Bar. We'll see you next time when true love meets. True Crime. Crimes of passion was created by Max Cutler his podcast studios original executive producers include Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, carly, madden, and Bruschi Kovic. This episode of Crimes Of Passion was written by Kansas Alan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon I'm Laney Hobbs. Don't forget to follow haunted places. Ghost stories for the spookiest thrillers ever imagined collected from all around the world, and throughout time Alistair, murden brings a new story to life every Thursday. Follow haunted places, ghost stories Freon spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Tom Shoulder Stacey Stacey Leonard stacy shot Deborah Christie Tom Christy She Debra Deborah Stacey spotify murder Christie Leonard Tom Raped Stacie Leonard Dr Henry Kemp Christie Governor Carnahan Alistair officer Governor Holden Jason
#29  "De mon canap  la course la plus dure au monde " Interview de Grgoire Chevignard

Dans La T�te D'un Coureur

59:30 min | 1 year ago

#29 "De mon canap la course la plus dure au monde " Interview de Grgoire Chevignard

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S2: Ch 09  Sripada Sri Vallabha Blesses the Washer-man

Guru Charitra

1:00:20 hr | 2 months ago

S2: Ch 09 Sripada Sri Vallabha Blesses the Washer-man

"This episode is brought to you by gigi. Productions fought kushner. Knows she she live up this seat jaakko sheba. She gives a d that's that he wouldn't be born in he won't be in. His next book does have his buttons new a that this would your as she would be so that you'll be netted another incident which she bought us see raw. Midi she by suge. Thought these fluids krishna being rebus also used to bit day. Lords of gould's forshing he you have. She bought us shen kinds. The he used to wash the driving used to so deep devotion in him washing up. It still happen to. Was abby nearly confluence as you should win. Washington way to the ligo with his fuels. Washy he saw was vice beating. The woman was very rich arguments at their whole. Many gods be watch the game Would bazant seeing a ballgame. He thought i'll go. He is was said that often about a little was leaving. He started thinking how happy you would be if he also were to be born in. His mind was relieved. Gus the msci by the team was leading him she brought up knew what was mind and he had love for you because of this devotion and the services he was tweeting she bought up toward that he was listening to be born in hawaii. Signed me is own desires. He follows say it uses desire gang even the life why why now that was open for the group's songs for him. He said i am not any pleasures of the word. You want me lease definite for maintenance book but not forsake me. Luke to your question is so compassionate use what is going on in your unanimous spe- designs many times. We think the masa hottest be. He doesn't understand the we are facing or you're suffering. But he's he's on ninety sometimes. Life is not by the way we re going to do some of these. We have licenses but at least a mobile the the great muster on mighties city fashion. He flew everybody's hots innermost desire that which do wonder whether it is with job family. You gots editing and with the desire what did is back also league but it's not going to come easy lease remember that the she bought is compassionate. You know what does he wants. His mind's designees so even before he ordered list to you wonder sometimes what what we have. This happens i do have a nice. You know this feed on his soul to everybody. Whether it's the you're wanting one non life you'll at least one song ping which we get. We assigned life has to be infected exactly. That has times when i should also us on every one of us. I wish i had this at this age. I would've joining might vicious women of my lifestyle. I didn't get to your goals at that moment to want us to fight in having it's exactly see what did he or what seeing me getting salting or on tv right now so that a row In this lifetime because my life is already very you wish to leslie please. Lesson next land. I know as a king wine and on the agoo these l. forsake me in what he sees exactly was up. 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Have i do malays all of these exit late that you have an evil has to go through with any company will be getting from us wearing offer something that is office johnson. Yeah we feed. Enough is enough one day money. I want my life. Three nice routine notice the beacon of but awesome should all this will be. It's lace fabulous long machinations. He said the state of mind. The choice of how you could live with you and does not want anybody you the word for you being examined by life any all duke. Nice eating zoom also. Excuse so we'll do it. That night changed perspective or was really good. Nice the joy students. They can either be happy. This with why gos- southern patience on their desires that which the was unforeseen desires into. Why didn't get the money. They didn't have a fool. The ad sacrified this located fitzroy's worst z. One bottle. This'll be you can fight your mom your evali this lou abstracts of your mind will want billions for your miserable seat how you take a. We'll see the word. It's hard for me. It's not easy. But i will still be awesome but laughing me a storm that sway receipts said for you and you are. Your worst wide goes either days before dawn. This your hanso let your mind over you. All short don't say things he's never going to show the upset over receive ordinary seat. Everything is happening for your though. Even one the start this button wages lot way to give you that says all accesses. It's not letting you see that. That will happy than women to plan. Your mind is great to see you against the dividing. I this war against this whole and see everybody's back wide visit Lewis getting he is giving everybody s exempt you actual sees fairly. He's weighed eating with her. Is not my issue. All beats in this league even give speed Bodily gaetan few people were rejecting grew jingle growing free men yet. A we speak at that time again. You know what on this. I go to ready dot. Because he's not the challenges all struggles. Which is the bottles british way. Because it doesn't want you to you know essentially becoming the mind. Recedes on hawks at the table remedy is chad. Believable jaggi Or have you must've if he has even you the voter just seizes the me. That does all the magic. And how fee everything will be fine. Just be swapping doina staff at that will be to die. Don't go speed silence. Only just don't have to react because the longer react mine so those is okay. Let it be nothing. It's not as awful society's not easy have vissel do the wilson But the is best. You see election with standoff goes. This are going to see time so fast you might see. It's not the city. You agree to be fossil tonight. Talking rice right gave listen five to four. But it's one hundred rice et drunk that you form is. Nobody's either wire was able to reach the decision though having the seas so rate is about of life doesn't matter see doesn't matter the block. I gave the dog in the nominations. That you only by resources. Nobody wants to nobody. Laughable fiji gobi savvy beaches. Teaching about this is nothing. Major action on the at failure does not defending your hands. It's not who say they might lose you. See disease is your has won seok Nice so why but you have to give the best you can see i have. I didn't do my other. Mr. what could be the outcome is not going to happen. That was also normal. The what is most important shut cop and some they cyber lessons. The which shays white ghost we lack beaches ambitious is extremely walking the Stay gone and impose. Even in the west zimmer days she lachey though batagay masculine you the on this uman when his own game were dying. He was walking the blissful seed. Can you seek though you see everybody fighting each other guy the gory scene and you ll be all even be. So upset jagger us on balance renewal not washed. Everybody dying his young. The yoga glenn was dying each just watched it will set godless. How because he knows every team is this. What is what has we wrassling end. So you're one going to die to how we do so he understands the missiles and ending. This happening agreed were my. I'd say you have fixed missile state the stack the acting my so. Don't she shows even read it. Why do we give examples of lachey. Because he's the highest teen your Additives danny he will go the graphic and the body among this accord be maddening. Gross not bad. So we gotta eddie's falsehood number one to this or alluded is the so. This is one need to stop but when you will have a more. We have by the way we see would says. See gordon everything. Seagoing heavy one. Happy this way to easy to see you. I can reach the knowledge of the even at the oddest that stands within the issue yak. Then you have like biden on his goal so you should z. Disturb you have your seats of radioactivity. Said that she's awake. What this new saw. Jesus although we will but it give up giving him some ways watson nieces that you will see how long you have to do so. Leave the board league buddy Bdo how does we have way more Your job is to rent cabins again. Saimaa season that somebody will sit. D you just have superfluids. We all Read this this this that. You give a ballpark this workload after becoming Today even keep saying the soon see Tomorrow when did not have this morning's or not it's not because even salal a simple do muster west. This all is well when you use one fight where he goes what is right. What is all for you read. I know what he does. He knows your week. We'll weakness on that. Which is you may not process. So that is what his way to this week. That is low role to see. How your You suceed is that that object or incident is suit studio fifty one and two day. Use your the next and nobody's gonna try to be very interesting. We healthy you can teach you needed to achieve or overcome off your mitchell or something that water many when you least expected to see whether the student body you are now and the time we surprise you end up yappy why that it'll that object Day with the soft mind on c. Ready to student fifty. You see gatting. wash wash piggies on your your feeder back destined menu so salacious all hoagies happening so happy love seat at why that is seeking group. The issue is up some he sees that. Do not ever lost it on your working or sydney lettuce. Grace lobbyist beyond my head lisa resp- listen Musician i that would that again decided not position. That's only priceless of in old. Old jacob crisis tina michigan owning your rate. Which is never let the grease from. How can i knew. Doctor always seek for greece session. Awesome when awesome. She netted diesel. Your next book on the novosti. Sammy you you by white rock a enjoy. All of your house johansen. You will have my do not magazine fall back in the fall. You ain't got nation than as she says for be that it is not allegedly Of the citizens one should coveted naive by one. Everyone s by gordon liu which is about all the or the enjoyment seeing how much have hamas money not. Easy hiding the basal. Now these fogle spirituality because normally the just that you get all your life is a would that you should have him again Your as she baciu dana that he still got into boston off for whereas he see by the mobile. The mobile that does not augie Senses one should go back to night. You should not go. So that's nice because before the mississippi garnishing come up and teach everyone get into that. It's not worth it. But once the ordinal about wall the enjoy medicine achievements lackawanna. Cheese is having basil on so seat. Life were gone at this exactly sheet. She is celine noted that knowledge anyway because of your washing dishes. E mixed game believe this. The great masters vague fashioning. How did this isn't the viable air teasing so. So don't don't this is seen anything sox mostly based on the my white goes. We have not done that. S not quantity this have visual opposite. We mark good bad Licensed let's way when leading online at gos- dot com. Because i begun to. Nobody do what is it. The goose null the understand what you are the standard abortion they go. How the view of or to dissolve. This'll see what you unglued golfing. But it's not anyone benefits east green assault because a weaker gates mazes devotion because of your devotion she botchy malignancy or does this because his devotion that once. Yeah the roussel you wanna have orioles e servi shot Beaches have dreamers. So she bothe- she decided later that he should know his soldier on the visit off his he had the natural system. You had many yani sauce on the ball judi. Somebody's many had you buy that. That's the age or devotion and source of the rue Excellence of the mon- or night edition cost to be established over a spiritual accidents. These disciples alone the bottle bliss and everybody that was a big while ensuring that they were built bias the be thought or who suffer by some of the more this word so that is the goosing they have achieved this many riesling. What did he say. Your need souls on this voyage. Were those who wanting to be on the spiritual sitting on this bar that he had yet lead the sufferings open. And what does he do. He leaves the this robot so he leaves them from the saudi. He could debt disease. Waste hospital you must be softening gotcha. So he fixes all because he absorbed he. He did his faculties That is associated with it. You had to buy that software Rations aso's to the he had inviting. Why is the word by that is because we are not getting forward. Some rate is getting especially what happens. Is that every law the garbage or leaving the conway's vice reading that has to be guided floor issued that the practice has been you the revival in god. We should go. This was the had other. Bogus do manifest decided. Okay this is something new to stand and know she bother she labus Dial or feverish. Why is that important which will be the lost. The needs given this morning to enjoy it. Mine had children giddy blessed screen and what not and the austin sensual pleasures. And you forget. This isn't so gordon syfy nominee hopefully on bobble unreligious. So by that so yet that they will be will do and coo. The back is office. Yea shin so as to the soviets to do is highest wall where she then you get in your that's icefall so the glue ciba onto the lunacy. You're who she says these reborn in science piece when you often we sentenced to offer i was so vegetable. Says this seat. It's not been than. I am going to get something who's not deepest Intrigue especially the moneywise which she wou- innovative audited matter. We don't respect him. We disrespected We got his physical use at the team. That green likely would be. I'm fortunate that whiting's looks the physician. Judy be honest. Work to see the sense says isis. See the physically fall. We'll have to see the divine foam understand what it needs to spec the wanna eat tuna scott. You all do that. Rule not for those disciples. He's talking about when beat the abuse for them did. Do i see that the already soccer unique lawsuits this unity. Except that the awesome goldsman. What would we wanna go. So this is a vegan motion happened supports a falls on the signing. Won't release unfortunate league team leader one piece by only the diesel muscle gan. You'll be even do that on this town. Just saudi would. You won't be that is and then you will pick timothy four that the false operas that he wore braces were walls of this meyer. August says that not said he said the he abusir be extremely an auditor and that is what his. That's what that's the Crease and episodes usually gated so that you have had the puppy. You will be glitzy video. Who's this to seek an audience would be. This is what happens. You get that greece so wasted wish. doesn't exist. So so what does he see this water so that you want the sand was. You're able to use some all dating worship on the soviets to do these ambiguities in your heart liberation holiday decoration by some yoga meditation on that or meeting. Buckby mock liberty should exactly you emotion so of your group. So please make this your your your google har- so never forgave that the baptist shouldn't i'm of one of zones one so again we will end on international But would though someone losses docile discussion. About what more of life has been ready been speed. You must go this. I didn't understand the booby. What does speed mention your waiting for all the morning. Goldman because you're more out any one person who's like this is three one billion one. That's exactly buddies loss in the material world. That will why would sit back. is gone up of the were missing from legal now. Love locker businesses. We already saw mission so easy. Inform the one codes awfully do that. You want to join the that. I wrote that. They're northern we again. it's only to the ice detachment nation once again lashley. Why would be your job. Hustle vice mileage june. Nothing actions you just have played son benched by water i be the most beautiful one White beholding wall you'll be so swollen ankles to discrimination wasn't the Gordon this one is bathed by begin. Divorces you want a water burnden. That's how easy many late someone will place and lose licensed warm jacci. it is not the was enough so none see ordinary retired. Licensed do buying back half. Don't want on shis having that you would have to see gordon. Everyone even young west. You should be but because white on my income so stone. So we'll see than go your way and that can be justin. How can you go back again or legal to be motions overseas only through demotion and under the district of your ad archie in order The Through your mouth and chango rusi one beat heat chatting even when the worst sense Even defense stay the naval majerus. So on just have one that she read the all night. In the mongol i seen a. She walked into the waters off the peoples and disappeared just as notchy now had aided out dining multi. He said the waters he said. I you go all out of. That's injured under the woolsey. One of the most of the the although she bothered she by Join yet it is known that he did countless nominal and soon unto us to do so in this race fall to all those who have said they're haas on the way fall and offer their devotion to let faulk in olson's yadi and these against somebody warned. Listen on staff was late on the lord's disappear more dramatic estate. The which is what. I'm honest and the which money this not you will go. Had john's yet. Did his law that he hit that he appear via stump bliss number of fans and sugandi usa rusal. And we'll make up you yesterday. Said it is not the tacit on chiba. It is your feign. That stole need. Become shooting the job way. Have such a devotion. How much your your says for the lawn. How much seeks your said in that particular. See that is why. Would you be just one way one. For an example this the bond robots as the the on canadia and then. He's not the c. Show way too low or it's not as simple as what was having a vegan does seem naci we bought it got worksheet so these are different aspects so which aspect of the day one. What should the fall district menu. Washy the wall that is gone you on the issue and see lachey that way. See the you'll get a spec- some they could try them on out too. So you want to see is in lachey you so anyone. You'll read the easily established. The rule in that wall will be. That is the fall which manifested. Because that's what you agree. That is what was feeding in your feet that wall that wall nicest thing so again decisions you lead singer i that you really manifesting. Ming seeking redemption saturday. The joining even though beautiful. That's what is mentioned you. So he does. This is in student body. Used to do the goodful. So that only legalize do everybody. Naked is seen by You have the his greece to the divine. We should be able to see this fall in that particular auto nation. So it is. You will be making dom so see. The my lord will manifest roy Was this gun action. Since your shut hop absolutely not only that be but we'll see your feet that grew god. He got new. The grace to recognize rang. So offline response is extremely seed. The grisly be recognizing when abuse. And the reason why you see. Were she your f- gordon because sometimes the losses you a warning. This is talking about. She bought up got in the ready fault pace when the law sin using warning. That is working forest to have that you should be to see owning everybody which means you mortgage go. But can you have the grease see either gulf ready usually which me oh to oh higher for should not be exceeded surrended. I actually seen once. War was huge this g monday. Only sean racial so. When five o'clock in the evening because was supposed to be over the daniels Five invited Just revenge as a huge go. Every weighty will go who happen to be offered and then you a jim. I simply time to be a huge push. Anyone going on so often anybody to go on. The ocoee was done at the be the for them. Los anybody stopping this. So we rented forward. Nobody's is we saw the ought something. We did. The the relation. The denver who the chemo. The sentence vitamin shoppe. What are the denver. Every time we give you the shots at the bios offenses over so we go to shop. Lenders this when your notes. I'm super scared. Goals so into. It's a can just see those eagles lachey he's asking you to subdue gave me eat for my hand to go guy he's job he gives us a darn dog you to see you so he just he wanted so isn't an easy exceeded so so many fall could we don cnn gooby. In easy it'd be human wall in the hall leisure animals getting any. Do you have seen at that moment. Diarrhea costs because it is only a woman to region is not to be able to more than a few mass. It was just a minute when the dog came into the low three though but talking. You mean dr jump you might gig with. How sweet wasn't your disgrace. That's how you should be even with the nice inviting me. Betsy aureus awesome. That's why zoo warden gordon buddy. Both lake saw all. You just hated gordon that why you what was what happens you actually. Would you hit a but what happened. Just we goes to see barring that have rejected. that is a big challenge in life nissan. Stand you'll need able to discriminate. Disseminate needs to see gordon. Everyone wanted to set the that which that is created is on view this a mild with this the subordinate guy. Go get your what is happening. What is happening having morning. But it was on the stand that i am not. The board is already defeated. Unfortunately because we have so a national award mine senses ego and something somebody on back. Somebody's laughing i had will be innocent. Talking book is bigger. Go bass. Mon- somebody's in a moderate as you'll meet usa today or go and people just because in a position that you would be as as the baker silver gold line's you'll see read e suburb antique. We bought reason. Why graciously. Who is because that's how on but we don't understand that when that even tablets you'll get sober gets that's off visit deeply to worry and the even more often use waste more. You watch us take warnings. More people expect you. But what is the scene that you're not on sundays. Who's your water. A sex change we. Nothing changes onedrive complete born. Why are you still getting the listen. I along the way gonna wait. I am that poem. I am the on the one and this. Listen is disloyal. Easy that that phone est. Regardless we something is happening somebody's greenback was reportable us again. Assisted by chrishell Where even the most good use of the dasa was the meal. You know why so that. They did destroy who they are gordon naked. Divvy graciously do all sorts of jobs. How might be this. Hubble via david david dweller city so that you and i we should follow this legal. No job is being this. Then you'll pay you walk Age all your holiday job because one either clean. The you know the especially notions one morning when you're waiting and national You have league. I got some language. Somebody should these role. Is it more than how are you. Don't get your move had eagle which is also beaching bit nor jobs. Jobs jobs always be sitting is a dull all the minor little Knees and back is that needs to be done. You will be sent as a boss would make Thrums and all those order being to do at least what base of eight dhaka's so can you oscar homes. And that's one of the lessons resolve. Anomalous will video. Who's the boss. Limited copy masters policies around eighty monday. Where he who's who have young. I'm talking all Buying the muscles even be the then on. What does the by the cycles. diggle editing. The book finding the door owning this team under the leave the go back on this little position. Nothing nothing that that is the actions of unity. Solid ball. What is the most important this to be over the eagle grey muster reading the. It'd be anything more jober be joke. I know what you really utilize before this was not no. You're talking about the washer vandy. Lestrade saloon off. She sang when lachey shine on visiting this month or for him. They've been coming by this week. who john she's bank. She was a dp washing the yards of the over there and she's coming at least launching but now at the turkish. Now say i. I on your mortgage disease. Chris nights imagine she falls a note. He's she slow. Masha is home to the layover needs. Leases was attracted could slope of you likewise eight will be in the presence of watching. They want what he says she finished. Not the chiefs. He's so he's. He's a masculine desires to jump on that so craze you you see anything except that law firm. It's not the north. Even wall the uk dissect love which makes them fee. Because what happens to you how you're spending or so so you are so excited watching. You actually is a stop adults stock in your and then once she Avenue to too. I know what she does too he just hordes a woman just live set up like that and students home. She'd be gross into beautiful home woman and he saw you in that although he's rigors at up she she was on venus and she does gorgeous. She becomes. Gordon goes boss. And that's just what does it mean he's be you will pleasures were the the divine this beyond a human might stand on the staten Will be held jefford when she was a doctor she saw him. I just wanna be. That's lawrence all week. It's not physically show. You're not talking about the godman axiom. It's above the overhead. It's the law you you just wonder also That disorder is on about and this is ninety s he's a magnetic everybody's attracted that is not a senior on the snyder who cannot get attracted lachey. Let me tell you this. I don't know that's why it is and that's another major Marketing that they now reading on your everybody ladies jangle and everybody used to run after him. He's always there for everyone everybody. He'd be also lean on mine on will be the bees and that is way she talks to moby. See how can you move from one end to see what the most important need the sad. Isn't that every one of us have a wonka. Sean we have all upset. And he's him within optimal says that though me this say the whole lean always talking about this way you need to become one with. Oh gosh. she's not was living in your heart attack me. The maybe dog's name which people t will reduction. Cows uber beans it. Will somebody starting own mehta gotten noel. Anybody it to say but song and miss do you want the ogle. The level version one warning needs to logan mine. What is what does the job dean. And how you feel and that the don blessed john and finally eases russell that he heating du- moser all adding the puppy that's been arcus this magic you done told insists to divine the divinity. The that's why he said want me giza lawson. But he's not going the story gore but me that this divine long so that shopping. I'm see that you continue. Boggles upi and receive off. Which is dating your spirituality. So although she had big john his avocado yet Godless face and sue continues to use this fall along those who have said they absorb that twenty fall off that the home end was this does as the nine chapter of jaeger describing Predominant you'll thank you for joining by. I'm visual navidi. Happy we get the home. She relieved that. They'll jesus don this bruce Jays all over the loss of the on the She thought she should. She really did gu-guy home. She could not sonoma the age of.

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NGOPI #14 - Pernikahan yang Dilarang dalam Syariat Islam

Radio Fajri 99.3FM

59:04 min | 6 months ago

NGOPI #14 - Pernikahan yang Dilarang dalam Syariat Islam

"This bit the. Sea On. Has. With the. Oil The. Office. Champs on. Has. With the. The Oil. and. Fees many Lanna. and. Is via mobile. Selah, want equal or Matola he over two. Hundred. lizzy beating that Musalia Health Awareness. Of Muhammad. Ali Mohammed. Bird but ingredient. The ampoule. as I needed smarter nearby Gallini Gatumba Liberty Dum boom well. At Blend Wendy get 'em sweater wonky Dan is allowed, but some of them we. End It's level obese at the gym could abandon the onion and demand the won't. Won't put all. But in the Islam me at that, they were lucky that because a Mutt that mcgarry and. Then, Sierra yet, another some very near wake then didn't they come in once again and never year Indian wounded Overton Roxie Dickerson but that Gary directly needed Lopez of bless the bless Apollo's milnes Milan Tika. Wake Daddy's ahead. Angers October. Worry would say he. doper the ending entangled will pull it. He gets over three boom but but would were he jerry ebbing Pucallpa. Would, end over end this the as good enter bake sale up yet it's. A lovely new dollars. La. A schizo. A law but okay he. Allow me. Together the. IDEA. Then when you leaders in the three years visa and Yankee attack. A. Daddy year that he that is their yell he yet. Those the thought of. A Haroo Dean is E.. M. A.. E. Will make up. Maybe in the was he more they won't get an expert on April. But a Nika Hanyang laron allow Michetti. Islam was number. That, we took. On you can have that. For her. Own Little debtors at. Seven. Hundred Law Helicopter Lady Michelle is that Sad Nigo very how many? The beheading number. Three, then yet and. Menial. WHO had against? Why show? Is that. How Fitness routine. Is the game and he goes out and uses. The how a picky eater. Chelsea but Manhattan until. By fame? than. a system of A. Either but but again, the could yet then kin. The Sangha or essay he. Thought Amer Buggy. Winner Pratt the and had that on the gap. SEMENZATO. Number illness at the. CIA back to the cut, the will be an October. Get Out Connecticut on the role. That we've done pal Ki Surat Fatty Harrison. You. But. That's. A killer sang at. Guest ear. Than Diana submit, this up in ammonia. But with. Tennessee to walk on. The can but Muhammad down. Tough Sierra Martha maps. Than than fatty within. Duca Shirahama ten total at failure than Tun. Than Tahseen. Within Lancelot kidney young putting Harrods tuna by lackey. But some Shaffi. Among Momirovski Aparna Manelli Gaddi that I'm GONNA lend yeah. Get the. Mickey Standard Nealon. Than then. have. A sheltie. And taliban-style internacional at the moment. Could yes. In the Nacional Book, I'm not your now. Did He. Can Memory. Can Mataitoga. Chef mark would a Geordie. Modibo Marcus. The. Mungiki show. Be. Innings Mutton Jaren. Yet Andrea di Di di. Buggy. Sonata panicked could yet donatella. Custodian and he was fighting and there were open a million sanit. We'd done sort of at the. Medicine Osama. Scalia. Zero. Kim. 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Bake at the. upper low. Number again in Iraq see. Yeah. But some comedies. Any tight me and MSU Lionel. Some. Other beginning in the Leeann and help when you among guy at the beginning in Louis S Walker. Get educated under the knife streaming. Video Diary Divest Book that Congress, meeting the of ideas that I think the. That either to get any then. upper when musical tickle. pedantic again. The sort of how do you need you to put balancer? How can like webinars and down? Dr Seuss. And the? Via Beedon. Utopia The. Concept busness Russell Loss Alani Selah show ended up. These. Concept. Than you are. Allowed awesome also. Making caused. By cerebral numberless the. Hottie. Here Say Bungalow. Check the spending new defend fits. The website, the STI ad that I see that I d. Come. With the end you get the. A. Butt. Nicotine. Nanny tap any. Woman. happening. FM. Young. Vatican to minorities. Let me get the Minorities Carolina. Communion Muka will be nurtured in town up Moreland you're number car. Attica Soy Standard, an issue now. Nichole, between ninety to enjoy. Copper Thais we are. Do I doubt and baton? On books bad gay. Vanillin, skelly Marini who show It's the Do now to. Bunch. Up on your behalf, the tide them Nico pricier more Marinda in. Patton by. Ilya. But good wanting. This it a the data to combat. He put my scenic opening for the but I did I did FM one math and didn't the ended up in. The body panelist, you'll get their. Kin Suda. Police L. MEA to be. migden. On the website you're not, I mean. A lot of yes Amos y'all is day my. Mom. booming. We're going to get remodeling coming down with the. Banias Data Mani is the yeah. Does that. The Elliott though soup with that of them want you pay ain't going to get the bus. By yen today the was y'all. Sheila. All opposite bloodless bussiness blended again be. What's up Juca telling? The began the anything anchoring the do Nehemiah Kanye. Beer Update lie here the throw. Bruce at home equality among on. that. Gregoire Hawks Yeah Yeah. This is bitcoin designers who died. A live streaming. Yes. You like an defense. Gary meeting at idea fighting. Then we'll give that up. The lunch area with his own show. Though Hopper clan and Alyssa. How Michelle Sherry Atkin? Allah Islam Muslims are now among. Did Monica. Glendale Kandari. Can Get Omar. That'd be. Representing. Laron. lemesurier. Is Love. I. Can, predict putting Kanye non-islamic. Get up. On him to the BEGINNING MONICA THE CHARITY Caller. MALKIN UNECONOMIC? The. Tang Masala in the. US Bogus. It's about going on tour Mantica depend can Monica. An Kita And that Sarah. Can. You told me that it. Are Sal you get. Dary who look here in England visa. Fellow or Antonio bike in shallow, the can nobody can cut back. The has the. Yeah. Get the. Process on the Momentum, Utah Decathlon? Being a Pentagon. Now. Among around Huambo Adele. Monica Hanyang CALCUTA SAT deputy that Malignancy Dini anti-saleh. It'll putting them on notre up start to calm. You could this company can the on anti weather Cahaney Luna near it again damn. Bucket color thirty whole. Yes. I just. saw the hand seeing Yuban around Worse Bahamas in Etowah. Yon Monica. That concept. Saleh. But when Young Young, the do at. Me Who are Maqsoud Maqsoud Aminata Sherry Mustard to to join. The. Show at dickey's opposition between. Now BSA that I'm Kardashian fikile. Denisova key to slow alarm and umbrellas. Pullman can have any muhammed can Harry Nina Kim what mood had the Manetti Matt? At. took. And ONE YOUNG LADY TATA PANEL LOST! An. Ally to. The Pinnacle Waddady GALATA deputy in Asia. and. Then a toy only laurent can seeing it that he took a lot of Hokum Vicky at the heart, I'm the macro bad Manuka how? Did you. Get. Out. Momentum India the blogger it is more to. Buy, seed and seeing. 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