13 Burst results for "Abdelatif"

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Cost of Care

The Cost of Care

02:43 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Cost of Care

"The cost of care is brought to you by the commonwealth fund. A foundation working to improve the united states healthcare system. The fund envisions a future. We're everyone regardless of race ethnicity and come gender. Geographic location has access to high-quality equitable affordable healthcare to achieve this vision. It supports independent research. It makes grants to promote policies and practices focused on advancing racial equity and healthcare as the cova nineteen pandemic has demonstrated healthcare and the us is rife with inequities. Millions of people across the nation are denied access to care they need the commonwealth fund is committed to dismantling systemic racism in healthcare policy and practice and to countering inequity in treatment patient experience in health outcomes for black people indigenous people and other people of color visit the fund's new instagram account at advancing health equity to explore the latest news and resources on our country's pervasive health inequities and how we can work together to create an anti-racist health system and society where everyone can thrive like many of you. I have voided going to the doctor for the last year except when it was absolutely necessary but now that everything is starting to open back up. I'm thinking about setting up some catch up health dental and appointments to help with this. I found this great app. Doc doc is an abdelatif compared doctors by their ratings and reviews from real patients. Just download the free tzakda cab the easiest way to find a doctor and instantly book an appointment with zok doc. You can search for local doctors who take your insurance. Read verified patient reviews and book an appointment in person or video chat. Whether you're looking for a primary care physician dentist dermatologists psychiatrist doctor or other specialists tzakda can help you find what you need. Tzakda makes healthcare easy. Now is the time to prioritize your health. Good azzak doc dot com slash cost of care and download the dock app to sign up for free and book. A top rated. Dr many are available as soon as today. That's z. o. C. dot com slash cost of care..

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"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

Democracy Now! Audio

14:27 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

"Their lives. We own the reparations us. We need to make sure that they are in good situations and continue to follow them and support them in attempting to make the rest of their lives for more. We're joined by two lawyers representing these men. Gary thompsons and attorney in private practice. Who's worked on pro bono guantanamo prisoners. He's the lead attorney for former guantanamo. Prisoner reveal men. Gaza also with us mark mayor staff attorney for reprieve. Us who's represented six men in prison guantanamo including abdulatif nassir who has just released to morocco. Mark let's begin with you. Can you tell us the circumstances under which he was just released. And what's happening to abdulatif nassar now. Absolutely thank you for having me. On the circumstances under which was released actually begin back in twenty sixteen as you said abdelatif. Nassir was held for close to two decades nineteen years without charge or trial. He was actually cleared for release by the periodic review board which is a parole institution. That was set up. Under the a barack obama's presidency and his staff by six members of a federal agencies from the united states including the departments of defense homeland security and the joint chiefs of staff. They determined unanimously. That up to latif nassir posed no threat to the united states or anybody and determined that he should be released from guantanamo. Unfortunately this determination came quite late. In barack obama's presidency and the state department at that time defer to the next administration as we all know was the trump administration president trump had campaigned on the idea of not closing tahoe and in fact not transferring anyone out of guantanamo and largely kept that promise so even though up liffey nassir was cleared by senior civil servants from the us government. He had to sit and wait until the political will within the united states changed and as thrilled as we are that i'll not nassir is now out that he is back in morocco and his with his family and is trying to start a new life and is focused on the future of the fact remains. He lost close to two decades of his life and that number and twenty-seven men are still there without charge or trial Waiting for the political will of this administration to change us up and mark may. Could you talk a little bit about how he came to end. Up in one-ton mojo. I was originally a captured and transferred to detain there. And why did he never received trial. Well i can say that. That the reason why he never seemed to trial is the same reason. Why a twenty seven of those men haven't received a trial either and that's because they have never faced any kind of charges at all they're being held essentially as prisoners of war ability. If nassir ended up in one tahoe the way. A lot of people ended up in guantanamo. There was a bounty program. Essentially that was being run in afghanistan and in pakistan. I believe i the number. I might be getting wrong. I believe what the balance is being offered for. P- turning over people to afghan-american pakistani authorities was close to five thousand dollars at the time which was a huge life changing amount of money and he. We happen to know. In a lot of cases of people who ended up guantanamo that they were the result of people lying about the people who ended up there Or simply mistaken identity That's the case of another one of our clients who still detained. Guantanamo bay met rabbani the stories actually detailed in the senate torture report that he was detained. Mistakenly because the united states believed he was another man named hassan ghul he was severely tortured including techniques. That haven't been used since the spanish inquisition. The united states eventually actually detained mr hassan ghul at the same prison bog rem that Mister rabbani was being held at missiles. Strauss on goal was eventually released from there but now twenty years on a much like the situation that opt to latif nassir found him in just a month ago. Achmad rabbani remains there so sadly this is a situation that we've seen repeated for a number of the men who are still detained and the colts have been growing for the biden administration to close guantanamo. A how could that be done. And do you think it's likely one of the easiest ways is to begin with releasing the ten men who have been cleared for transfer and working to release all twenty seven of the who have never been again charged with any crime or at trial. It's unlikely that any of those men will ever face any trial This is especially true. In light of the fact that as well i think is your viewers and listeners will know the by administration has announced that the war in afghanistan is supposed to completely end By a i think mid august was the last Estimate that they had. And i believe earlier in the show We heard president biden saying that Combat troops will be exiting iraq by the end of the year. That says to me. I think to a lot of observers that the that the wars that led to these people being wrongly imprisoned in guantanamo or ending If there was ever a right and just time to be releasing these ben. This is the time to do it. The only thing that might be lacking moving these algae there is political will if they haven't been charged with anything if they haven't faced trial for anything if the wars are over then the question is what can the biden administration due to solve this problem. The question should be what justification does the vitamin association. Still have to be detained. Be to be detaining these people. I wanna bring gary thompson into the conversation. The attorney who were pro bono for guantanamo prisoners and is the lead attorney for reveal manga. Zaw who is a former guantanamo prisoner. Can you tell us his full story. And then where he's ended up today. How a started a quintana. Thank you very much. Redevelopment goddess office from an area in russia called tartar stan and he began to practice his chosen religion freely in late. One thousand nine hundred ninety s. He was a professional ballet dancer. then drafted into the russian army and came to a point in his life where he decided he wanted to leave russia and flee religious persecution simply to live a life of religious freedom with his wife and then young baby They attempted to Travel south only reveal made it across the border into jika stan afghanistan and then pakistan where he was arrested in march. Two thousand and two by pakistani police is mark. Mayor mentioned Also sold for bounty to united states authorities who took him to barroom took him to kandahar tortured him. He suffered extreme interrogation and supposedly confessed under duress. He was then taken guantanamo in october of two thousand and two where he suffered greatly for many years under harsh conditions and sometimes solitary eventually he was permitted to have counsel which is where we came in and we filed a petition for habeas corpus. And in two thousand ten. Here in dc where. I live judge. Henry kennedy issued the right of habeas corpus in order the united states government to release route reveal men gaza from gano. If believe it or not it then went through the case then went through a six-year kafka esque appellate cycle where he was not released and then in two thousand ten reveal also want a periodic review board hearing like mr nassar that mark mentioned and that same panel cleared for release and then took the state department about six months to locate a country reveal to go to. He cannot go back to russia because russia has a record of killing or torturing a one quantum of detainees return to them so we thought it was our lucky day when it was confirmed that reveal could go to the united arab emirates where several other are. Dozen other ex detainees also went. It was always reveals dream to be in an arab country. He learned arabic and lonzo understood. Arabic culture wanted to be there and we really celebrated that day reveal was on the last plane out on tottenham oh the day before donald trump was inaugurated so it really felt like we had dodged Something terrible we were promised by our state department that the ui had promised them that Reveal would be released in six months that he would be treated humanely that he would be given job and a place to live in about six months time which is similar to the saudi program for expertise detainees. It didn't come to pass. It turned out that the uae lied to the united states government. These so-called diplomatic assurances were were simply allies and reveal along with about two dozen. Other men have suffered even more in. Uae prisons most notoriously our zine prison these now four and a half years and they're not permitted a review by international red cross or requests in they've been able to get out. Sporadic calls to their families With the help of reprieve where. Mr mayor works. The dots have been connected We know there's torture there we know there's mistreatment and the the men stuck in the uae like brazil. Had all said is worse than guantanamo worse than guantanamo is. So that's why with with eighteen men still there. We call the uae gitmo yeast as opposed to get more west and with the numbers dwindling. Now thirty nine eight with eighteen in the they're really a pair. An biden a serious about closing tano. He needs to in his state department. Needs to look into the concept of re resettlement Look at people like revolt and guys off some of the gaps. Garrett josh if i can. I just wanted to ask you about this. Particular issue of the uae has gitmo of the east to your analysis of what has been the us government's reaction to basically offloading prisoners to another gulag totally complicit the uae. Past all these men often. Uae and as far as we know did absolutely nothing to follow up on. Those diplomatic assurances. We apparently our state department at least under donald trump just didn't care Didn't care that they were lied to. And we've seen no evidence that that our state department even now under the biden administration is really doing anything to remedy the situation in the uae. Some people in the state department of told us their quote working on or they're in touch with people in the uae. But we're seeing nothing and in the meantime we're getting very very scared that reveal might be rendered to russia or in the case of the yemenis who are in a might take them back to yemen where they can suffer wanted to remind people what joe biden said the last democratic presidential debate when he was asked by. Pbs moderator michel cinder about closing one tano vice-president biden wiping to close one obey. Why couldn't the obama administration close to close guantanamo bay. But you have to have congressional already to do. It kept it open. The fact is that we in fact it's the greatest hit is an advertisement for it is an advertisement for creating terror. The image of around the world the fact of mark mayor your final words. The only thing that the only two things that i would add words to kind of hone in on something that gary was saying there He mentioned Having titian for rid of habeas corpus back in twenty ten that would have been during brock obama's presidency and that means his justice department was opposing That petition for rid of habeas corpus We found ourselves in a similar situation with our klein. Audela haroon goule His justice department Mr biden's president biden's justice department took the same position that president. Bush president obama's president trump's did we had biden he should Stop opposing these petitions of habeas corpus and begin releasing all of the uncharged men who remaining one time obey. Wanna thank marc mayer and gary thompson. Lawyers for at least two of the guantanamo prisoners. I made me goodman with one. Gonzalez stay say..

guantanamo nassir latif nassir biden administration united states mark mayor uae Gary thompsons abdulatif nassir Mark let abdulatif nassar abdelatif Nassir periodic review board departments of defense liffey nassir united states government morocco
"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

Democracy Now! Audio

14:27 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

"Their lives. We own the reparations us. We need to make sure that they are in good situations and continue to follow them and support them in attempting to make the rest of their lives for more. We're joined by two lawyers representing these men. Gary thompsons and attorney in private practice. Who's worked on pro bono guantanamo prisoners. He's the lead attorney for former guantanamo. Prisoner reveal men gaza off also with us mark mayor staff attorney for reprieve. Us who's represented six men in prison guantanamo including abdulatif nassir who has just released to morocco. Mark let's begin with you. Can you tell us the circumstances under which he was just released. And what's happening to abdulatif nassar now. Absolutely thank you for having me. On the circumstances under which was released actually begin back in twenty sixteen as you said abdelatif. Nassir was held for close to two decades nineteen years without charge or trial. He was actually cleared for release by the periodic review board which is a parole institution. That was set up. Under the a barack obama's presidency and his staff by six members of a federal agencies from the united states including the departments of defense homeland security and the joint chiefs of staff. They determined unanimously. That up to latif nassir posed no threat to the united states or anybody and determined that he should be released from guantanamo. Unfortunately this determination came quite late. In barack obama's presidency and the state department at that time defer to the next administration as we all know was the trump administration president trump had campaigned on the idea of not closing tahoe and in fact not transferring anyone out of guantanamo and largely kept that promise so even though up liffey nassir was cleared by senior civil servants from the us government. He had to sit and wait until the political will within the united states changed and as thrilled as we are that i'll not nassir is now out that he is back in morocco and his with his family and is trying to start a new life and is focused on the future of the fact remains that he lost close to two decades of his life and that number and twenty-seven men are still there without charge or trial Waiting for the political will of this administration to change us up and mark may. Could you talk a little bit about how he came to end. Up in one-ton mojo. I was originally a captured and transferred to detain there. And why did he never received trial. Well i can say that. The reason why he never seemed to trial is the same reason. Why a twenty seven of those men haven't received a trial either and that's because they have never faced any kind of charges at all they're being held essentially as prisoners of war ability. If nassir ended up in one tahoe the way. A lot of people ended up in guantanamo. There was a bounty program. Essentially that was being run in afghanistan and in pakistan. I believe i the number. I might be getting wrong. I believe what the balance is being offered for. P- turning over people to afghan-american pakistani authorities was close to five thousand dollars at the time which was a huge life changing amount of money and he. We happen to know. In a lot of cases of people who ended up guantanamo that they were the result of people lying about the people who ended up there Or simply mistaken identity That's the case of another one of our clients who still detained. Guantanamo bay met rabbani the stories actually detailed in the senate torture report that he was detained. Mistakenly because the united states believed he was another man named hassan ghul he was severely tortured including techniques. That haven't been used since the spanish inquisition. The united states eventually actually detained mr hassan ghul at the same prison bog rem that Mister rabbani was being held at missiles. Strauss on goal was eventually released from there but now twenty years on a much like the situation that opt to latif nassir found him in just a month ago. Achmad rabbani remains there so sadly this is a situation that we've seen repeated for a number of the men who are still detained and the colts have been growing for the biden administration to close guantanamo. A how could that be done. And do you think it's likely one of the easiest ways is to begin with releasing the ten men who have been cleared for transfer and working to release all twenty seven of the who have never been again charged with any crime or at the trial. It's unlikely that any of those men will ever face any trial This is especially true. In light of the fact that as well i think is your viewers and listeners will know the by administration has announced that the war in afghanistan is supposed to completely end By a i think mid august was the last Estimate that they had. And i believe earlier in the show We heard president biden saying that Combat troops will be exiting iraq by the end of the year. That says to me. I think to a lot of observers that the that the wars that led to these people being wrongly imprisoned in guantanamo or ending If there was ever a right and just time to be releasing these ben. This is the time to do it. The only thing that might be lacking moving these algae there is political will if they haven't been charged with anything if they haven't faced trial for anything if the wars are over then the question is what can the biden administration due to solve this problem. The question should be. What justification does the vitamin nistration. Still have to be detained. Be to be detaining. These people i wanna bring gary thompson into the conversation. The attorney who were pro bono for guantanamo prisoners and is the lead attorney for reveal manga. Zaw who is a former guantanamo prisoner. Can you tell us his full story. And then where he's ended up today. How a started a quintana. Thank you very much. Redevelopment goddess office from an area in russia called tartar stan and he began to practice his chosen religion freely in late. One thousand nine hundred ninety s. He was a professional ballet dancer. then drafted into the russian army and came to a point in his life where he decided he wanted to leave russia and flee religious persecution simply to live a life of religious freedom with his wife and then young baby They attempted to Travel south only reveal. Made it across the border into jessica stan afghanistan and then pakistan where he was arrested in march two thousand and two. By pakistani police is mark. Mayor mentioned Also sold for bounty to united states authorities who took him to barroom took him to kandahar tortured him. He suffered extreme interrogation and supposedly confessed under duress. He was then taken guantanamo in october of two thousand and two where he suffered greatly for many years under harsh conditions and sometimes solitary eventually he was permitted to have counsel which is where we came in and we filed a petition for habeas corpus. And in two thousand ten. Here in dc where. I live judge. Henry kennedy issued the right of habeas corpus in order the united states government to release route reveal men gaza from gano. If believe it or not it then went through the case then went through a six-year kafka esque appellate cycle where he was not released and then in two thousand ten reveal also want a periodic review board. Hearing like mr nassar that mark mentioned and that same panel cleared reveal for release and then took the state department about six months to locate a country reveal to go to. He cannot go back to russia because russia has a record of killing or torturing a one quantum of detainees return to them so we thought it was our lucky day when it was confirmed that reveal could go to the united arab emirates where several other are. Dozen other ex detainees are also went it was always reveals dream to be in an arab country. He learned arabic lonzo. He understood arabic culture. Wanted to be there. And we really celebrated that day reveal was on the last plane. Out on tottenham. Oh the day before donald trump was inaugurated. So it really felt like we had dodged Something terrible We were promised by our state department. That the ui had promised them that Reveal would be released in six months that he would be treated humanely that he would be given job and a place to live in about six months time which is similar to the saudi program for expertise detainees. It didn't come to pass. It turned out that the uae lied to the united states government. These so-called diplomatic assurances were were simply allies and reveal along with about two dozen. Other men have suffered even more in. Uae prisons most notoriously our zine prison these now four and a half years and they're not permitted a review by international red cross or requests in they've been able to get out. Sporadic calls to their families With the help of reprieve where. Mr mayor works. The dots have been connected We know there's torture there we know there's mistreatment and the the men stuck in the uae like brazil. Had all said is worse than guantanamo worse than guantanamo is. So that's why with with eighteen men still there we call the uae gitmo yeast as opposed to get more west and with the numbers are dwindling. Now thirty nine eight with eighteen in the they're really a pair. An biden a serious about closing tano. He needs to in his state department. Needs to look into the concept of re resettlement. Look at people like revolt and guys off some of the gaps. Garrett josh if i can. I just wanted to ask you about this. Particular issue of the uae has gitmo of the east to your analysis. What has been the. Us government's reaction to basically offloading prisoners to another gulag totally complicit the uae past all these men often uae. And as far as we know did absolutely nothing to follow up on. Those diplomatic assurances. We apparently our state department at least under donald trump just didn't care Didn't care that they were lied to. And we've seen no evidence that that our state department even now under the biden administration is really doing anything to remedy the situation in the uae. Some people in the state department of told us their quote working on or they're in touch with people in the uae. But we're seeing nothing and in the meantime we're getting very very scared that reveal might be rendered to russia or in the case of the yemenis who are in the might take them back to yemen where they can suffer just wanted to remind people what joe biden said the last democratic presidential debate when he was asked by pbs moderator michel cinder about closing one tano vice president biden wiping to close one obey. Why couldn't the obama administration close to close guantanamo bay. But you have to have congressional thirty to do. It kept it open. The fact is that we in fact it's the greatest hit an advertisement for it is an advertisement for creating terror the image of tonne around the world the fact of mark mayor your final words. The only thing that the only two things that i would add words to kind of hone in on something that gary was saying there He mentioned Having petition for rid of habeas corpus back in twenty ten that would have been during brock obama's presidency and that means his justice department was opposing That petition for rid of habeas corpus We found ourselves in a similar situation with our klein. Audela haroon goule His justice department Mr biden's president biden's justice department took the same position that president. Bush president obama's president trump's did we have biden he should Stop opposing these petitions of habeas corpus and begin releasing all of the uncharged men who remaining one tottenham obey. Wanna thank marc mayer and gary thompson. Lawyers for at least two of the guantanamo prisoners. I'm amy goodman with one. Gonzalez stay say..

guantanamo nassir latif nassir biden administration united states uae Gary thompsons mark mayor abdulatif nassir Mark let abdulatif nassar abdelatif Nassir periodic review board departments of defense liffey nassir us government morocco
"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

Democracy Now! Audio

13:44 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

"Comes as activists gathered last week in front of the cultural attache office for the united arab arafat's the arab emirates in washington. Dc to protest the planned rendition of former guantanamo prisoner. Reveal men gossip back to russia. He's currently being held in a uae prison after being released from guantanamo. In two thousand. Seventeen where he too was held without. Charge for fifteen years advocates. Say seventeen other former guantanamo prisoners are now locked up in the ua under inhumane conditions. This is helen sheet inger of witness against torture. He's with the rest of their lives. We own the reparations us. We need to make sure that they are in good situations and continue to follow them and support them in attempting to make the rest of their lives for more. We're joined by two lawyers representing these men. Gary thompsons and attorney in private practice. Who's worked on pro bono guantanamo prisoners. He's the lead attorney for former guantanamo. Prisoner reveal men. Gaza also with us mark mayor staff attorney for reprieve. Us who's represented six men in prison guantanamo including abdulatif nassir who has just released to morocco. Mark let's begin with you. Can you tell us the circumstances under which he was just released. And what's happening to abdulatif nassar now. Absolutely thank you for having me. On the circumstances under which was released actually begin back in twenty sixteen as you said abdelatif. Nassir was held for close to two decades nineteen years without charge or trial. He was actually cleared for release by the periodic review board which is a parole institution. That was set up. Under the a barack obama's presidency and his staff by six members of a federal agencies from the united states including the departments of defense homeland security and the joint chiefs of staff. They determined unanimously. That up to latif nassir posed no threat to the united states or anybody and determined that he should be released from guantanamo. Unfortunately this determination came quite late. In barack obama's presidency and the state department at that time defer to the next administration as we all know was the trump administration president trump had campaigned on the idea of not closing tahoe and in fact not transferring anyone out of guantanamo and largely kept that promise so even though up liffey nassir was cleared by senior civil servants from the us government. He had to sit and wait until the political will within the united states changed and as thrilled as we are that i'll not nassir is now out that he is back in morocco and his with his family and is trying to start a new life in his focused on. The future of the fact remains that he lost close to two decades of his life and that number and twenty-seven men are still there without charge or trial Waiting for the political will of this administration to change us up and mark may. Could you talk a little bit about how he came to end. Up in one-ton mojo. I was originally a captured and transferred to detain there. And why did he never received trial. Well i can say that. That the reason why he never seemed to trial is the same reason. Why a twenty seven of those men haven't received a trial either and that's because they have never faced any kind of charges at all they're being held essentially as prisoners of war ability. If nassir ended up in one tahoe the way. A lot of people ended up in guantanamo. There was a bounty program. Essentially that was being run in afghanistan and in pakistan. I believe i the number. I might be getting wrong. I believe what the balance is being offered for. P- turning over people to afghan-american pakistani authorities was close to five thousand dollars at the time which was a huge life changing amount of money and he. We happen to know. In a lot of cases of people who ended up guantanamo that they were the result of people lying about the people who ended up there Or simply mistaken identity That's the case of another one of our clients who still detained. Guantanamo bay met rabbani the stories actually detailed in the senate torture report that he was detained. Mistakenly because the united states believed he was another man named hassan ghul he was severely tortured including techniques. That haven't been used since the spanish inquisition. The united states eventually actually detained mr hassan ghul at the same prison bog rem that Mister rabbani was being held at missiles. Strauss on goal was eventually released from there but now twenty years on a much like the situation that opt to latif nassir found him in just a month ago. Achmad rabbani remains there so sadly this is a situation that we've seen repeated for a number of the men who are still detained and the colts have been growing for the biden administration to close guantanamo. A how could that be done. And do you think it's likely one of the easiest ways is to begin with releasing the ten men who have been cleared for transfer and working to release all twenty seven of the who have never been again charged with any crime or at trial. It's unlikely that any of those men will ever face any trial This is especially true. In light of the fact that as well i think is your viewers and listeners will know the by administration has announced that the war in afghanistan is supposed to completely end By a i think mid august was the last Estimate that they had. And i believe earlier in the show We heard president biden saying that Combat troops will be exiting iraq by the end of the year. That says to me. I think to a lot of observers that the that the wars that led to these people being wrongly imprisoned in guantanamo or ending If there was ever a right and just time to be releasing these ben. This is the time to do it. The only thing that might be lacking moving these algae there is political will if they haven't been charged with anything if they haven't faced trial for anything if the wars are over then the question is what can the biden administration due to solve this problem. The question should be. What justification does the vitamin nistration. Still have to be detained. Be to be detaining. These people i wanna bring gary thompson into the conversation. The attorney who were pro bono for guantanamo prisoners and is the lead attorney for reveal manga. Zaw who is a former guantanamo prisoner. Can you tell us his full story. And then where he's ended up today. How a started at guantanamo. Thank you very much. Redevelopment goddess office from an area in russia called tartar stan and he began to practice his chosen religion freely in late. One thousand nine hundred ninety s. He was a professional ballet dancer. then drafted into the russian army and came to a point in his life where he decided he wanted to leave russia and flee religious persecution simply to live a life of religious freedom with his wife and then young baby They attempted to Travel south only reveal made it across the border into jika stan afghanistan and then pakistan where he was arrested in march. Two thousand and two by pakistani police is mark. Mayor mentioned Also sold for bounty to united states authorities who took him to barroom took him to kandahar tortured him. He suffered extreme interrogation and supposedly confessed under duress Taken guantanamo in. October of two thousand. And two where. He suffered greatly for many years under harsh conditions in sometimes solitary. Eventually he was permitted to have counsel which is where we came in and we filed a petition for habeas corpus. And in two thousand ten. Here in dc where. I live judge. Henry kennedy issued the right of habeas corpus in order the united states government to release route reveal men gaza from gano. If believe it or not it then went through the case then went through a six-year kafka esque appellate cycle where he was not released and then in two thousand ten reveal also want a periodic review board. Hearing like mr nassar that mark mentioned and that same panel cleared reveal for release and then took the state department about six months to locate a country reveal to go to. He cannot go back to russia because russia has a record of killing or torturing a one quantum of detainees return to them so we thought it was our lucky day when it was confirmed that reveal could go to the united arab emirates where several other are. Dozen other ex detainees also went it was always reveals dream to be in an arab country. He learned arabic lonzo. He understood arabic culture. Wanted to be there. And we really celebrated that day reveal was on the last plane. Out on tottenham. Oh the day before donald trump was inaugurated. So it really felt like we had dodged Something terrible We were promised by our state department. That the ui had promised them that Reveal would be released in six months that he would be treated humanely that he would be given job and a place to live in about six months time which is similar to the saudi program for expertise detainees. It didn't come to pass. It turned out that the uae lied to the united states government. These so-called diplomatic assurances were were simply allies and reveal along with about two dozen. Other men have suffered even more in. Uae prisons most notoriously our zine prison these now four and a half years and they're not permitted a review by international red cross or requests in they've been able to get out. Sporadic calls to their families With the help of reprieve where. Mr mayor works. The dots have been connected We know there's torture there we know there's mistreatment and the the men stuck in the uae like brazil. Had all said is worse than guantanamo worse than guantanamo is. So that's why with with eighteen men still there. We call the uae gitmo east as opposed to get more west and with the numbers dwindling now. Thirty nine eight with eighteen in the they're really a pair. An biden a serious about closing tano. He needs to in his state department. Needs to look into the concept of re resettlement. Look at people like revolt and guys off some of the gaps. Garrett josh if i can. I just wanted to ask you about this. Particular issue of the uae has gitmo of the east to your analysis What has been the. Us government's reaction to basically offloading gitmo prisoners to another gulag totally complicit the uae past. All these men often uae and as far as we know did absolutely nothing to follow up on. Those diplomatic assurances. We apparently our state department at least under donald trump just didn't care Didn't care that they were lied to. And we've seen no evidence that that our state department even now under the biden administration is really doing anything to remedy the situation in the uae. Some people in the state department of told us their quote working on or they're in touch with people in the uae. But we're seeing nothing and in the meantime we're getting very very scared that reveal might be rendered to russia or in the case of the yemenis who are in the might take them back to yemen where they can suffer just wanted to remind people what joe biden said the last democratic presidential debate when he was asked by pbs moderator michel cinder about closing one tano vice president biden wiping to close one.

guantanamo nassir uae latif nassir united states biden administration united arab arafat helen sheet inger Gary thompsons mark mayor abdulatif nassir Mark let abdulatif nassar abdelatif Nassir periodic review board departments of defense russia liffey nassir morocco
"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

Democracy Now! Audio

13:43 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

"As activists gathered last week in front of the cultural attache office for the united arab arafat's the arab emirates in washington. Dc to protest the planned rendition of former guantanamo prisoner. Reveal men gossip back to russia. He's currently being held in a uae prison after being released from guantanamo. In two thousand. Seventeen where he too was held without. Charge for fifteen years advocates. Say seventeen other former guantanamo prisoners are now locked up in the way under inhumane conditions. This is helen sheet inger of witness against torture. He's the rest of their lives. We own the reparations us. We need to make sure that they are in good situations and continue to follow them and support them in attempting to make the rest of their lives for more. We're joined by two lawyers representing these men. Gary thompsons and attorney in private practice. Who's worked on pro bono guantanamo prisoners. He's the lead attorney for former guantanamo. Prisoner reveal men gaza off also with us mark mayor staff attorney for reprieve. Us who's represented six men in prison guantanamo including abdulatif nassir who has just released to morocco. Mark let's begin with you. Can you tell us the circumstances under which he was just released. And what's happening to abdulatif nassar now. Absolutely thank you for having me. On the circumstances under which was released actually begin back in twenty sixteen as you said abdelatif. Nassir was held for close to two decades nineteen years without charge or trial. He was actually cleared for release by the periodic review board which is a parole mike institution that was set up under the a barack obama's presidency and his staff by six members of a federal agencies from the united states including the departments of defense homeland security and the joint chiefs of staff. They determined unanimously. That up to latif nassir posed no threat to the united states or anybody and determined that he should be released from guantanamo. Unfortunately this determination came quite late. In barack obama's presidency and the state department at that time defer to the next administration as we all know was the trump administration president trump had campaigned on the idea of not closing tahoe and in fact not transferring anyone out of guantanamo and largely kept that promise so even though up liffey nassir was cleared by senior civil servants from the us government. He had to sit and wait until the political will within the united states changed and as thrilled as we are that i'll leave. Nassir is now out that he is back in morocco and his with his family and is trying to start a new life and is focused on the future of the fact remains that he lost close to two decades of his life and that number and twenty-seven men are still there without charge or trial Waiting for the political will of this administration to change us up and mark may. Could you talk a little bit about how he came to end. Up in one-ton mojo. I was originally a captured and transferred to detain there. And why did he never received trial. Well i can say that. That the reason why he never seemed to trial is the same reason. Why a twenty seven of those men haven't received a trial either and that's because they have never faced any kind of charges at all they're being held essentially as prisoners of war abdullatif. Nassir ended up. In one tahoe. The way a lot of people ended up in guantanamo. There was a bounty program. Essentially that was being run in afghanistan and in pakistan. I believe i the number. I might be getting wrong. I believe what the balance is being offered for. P- turning over people to afghan-american pakistani thirties was close to five thousand dollars at the time which was a huge life changing amount of money and he. We happen to know. In a lot of cases of people who ended up guantanamo that they were the result of people lying about the people who ended up there Or simply mistaken identity That's the case of another one of our clients who still detained. Guantanamo bay met rabbani the stories actually detailed in the senate torture report that he was detained. Mistakenly because the united states believed he was another man named hassan ghul he was severely tortured including techniques. That haven't been used since the spanish inquisition. The united states eventually actually detained mr hassan ghul at the same prison bog rem that Mister rabbani was being held at missiles. Strauss on goal was eventually released from there but now twenty years on a much like the situation that opt to latif nassir found him in just a month ago. Achmad rabbani remains there so sadly this is a situation that we've seen repeated for a number of the men who are still detained and the colts have been growing for the biden administration to close guantanamo. A how could that be done. And do you think it's likely one of the easiest ways is to begin with releasing the ten men who have been cleared for transfer and working to release all twenty seven of the who have never been again charged with any crime or at trial. It's unlikely that any of those men will ever face any trial This is especially true. In light of the fact that as well think is your viewers and listeners will know the by administration has announced that the war in afghanistan is supposed to completely end By a i think mid august was the last Estimate that they had. And i believe earlier in the show We heard president biden saying that Combat troops will be exiting iraq by the end of the year. That says to me. I think to a lot of observers that the that the wars that led to these people being wrongly imprisoned in guantanamo or ending If there was ever a right and just time to be releasing these ben. This is the time to do it. The only thing that might be lacking moving these algae there is political will if they haven't been charged with anything if they haven't faced trial for anything if the wars are over then the question is what can the biden administration due to solve this problem. The question should be. What justification does the vitamin nistration. Still have to be detained. Be to be detaining. These people i wanna bring gary thompson into the conversation. The attorney who were pro bono for guantanamo prisoners and is the lead attorney for reveal manga. Zaw who is a former guantanamo prisoner. Can you tell us his full story. And then where he's ended up today. How a started a quintana. Thank you very much. Redevelopment goddess office from an area in russia called tartar stan and he began to practice his chosen religion freely in late. One thousand nine hundred ninety s. He was a professional ballet dancer. then drafted into the russian army and came to a point in his life where he decided he wanted to leave russia and flee religious persecution simply to live a life of religious freedom with his wife and then young baby They attempted to Travel south only reveal made it across the border into jika stan afghanistan and then pakistan where he was arrested in march. Two thousand and two by pakistani police is mark. Mayor mentioned Also sold for bounty to united states authorities who took him to barroom took him to kandahar tortured him. He suffered extreme interrogation and supposedly confessed under duress. He was then taken guantanamo in october of two thousand and two where he suffered greatly for many years under harsh conditions and sometimes solitary eventually he was permitted to have counsel which is where we came in and we filed a petition for habeas corpus. And in two thousand ten. Here in dc where. I live judge. Henry kennedy issued the right of habeas corpus in order the united states government to release route reveal men gaza from gano. If believe it or not it then went through the case then went through a six-year kafka esque appellate cycle where he was not released and then in two thousand ten reveal also want a periodic review board. Hearing like mr nassar that mark mentioned and that same panel cleared reveal for release and then took the state department about six months to locate a country reveal to go to. He cannot go back to russia because russia has a record of killing or torturing a one quantum of detainees return to them so we thought it was our lucky day when it was confirmed that reveal could go to the united arab emirates where several other are. Dozen other ex detainees are also went it was always reveals dream to be in an arab country. He learned arabic lonzo. He understood arabic culture. Wanted to be there. And we really celebrated that day reveal was on the last plane. Out on tottenham. Oh the day before donald trump was inaugurated. So it really felt like we had dodged Something terrible We were promised by our state department. That the ui had promised them that Reveal would be released in six months that he would be treated humanely that he would be given job and a place to live in about six months time which is similar to the saudi program for expertise detainees. It didn't come to pass. It turned out that the uae lied to the united states government. These so-called diplomatic assurances were were simply allies and reveal along with about two dozen. Other men have suffered even more in. Uae prisons most notoriously our zine prison these now four and a half years and they're not permitted a review by international red cross or requests in they've been able to get out. Sporadic calls to their families With the help of reprieve where. Mr mayor works. The dots have been connected We know there's torture there we know there's mistreatment and the the men stuck in the uae like brazil. Had all said is worse than guantanamo worse than guantanamo is. So that's why with with eighteen men still there we call the uae gitmo yeast as opposed to get more west and with the numbers are dwindling. Now thirty nine eight with eighteen in the they're really a pair. An biden a serious about closing tano. He needs to in his state department. Needs to look into the concept of re resettlement. Look at people like revolt and guys off some of the gaps. Garrett josh if i can. I just wanted to ask you about this. Particular issue of the uae has gitmo of the east to your analysis What has been the. Us government's reaction to basically offloading prisoners to another gulag totally complicit the uae past all these men often uae. And as far as we know did absolutely nothing to follow up on. Those diplomatic assurances. We apparently our state department at least under donald trump just didn't care Didn't care that they were lied to. And we've seen no evidence that that our state department under the biden administration is really doing anything to remedy the situation in the uae. Some people in the state department of told us their quote working on or they're in touch with people in the uae. But we're seeing nothing and in the meantime we're getting very very scared that reveal might be rendered to russia or in the case of the yemenis who are in the might take them back to yemen where they can suffer just wanted to remind people what joe biden said the last democratic presidential debate when he was asked by pbs moderator michel cinder about closing one tano vice president biden wiping to.

guantanamo Nassir uae latif nassir united states biden administration united arab arafat helen sheet inger Gary thompsons mark mayor abdulatif nassir Mark let abdulatif nassar abdelatif departments of defense russia liffey nassir morocco abdullatif
"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

Democracy Now! Audio

08:09 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Democracy Now! Audio

"Military prison in guantanamo bay cuba this month the first guantanamo prisoners to be released under the biden administration return to his home country of morocco. Fifty six year old abdulatif nassir was imprisoned for nearly two decades without charge and was cleared for release by the us military since two thousand sixteen there. Eighty nine prisoners remain at guantanamo. This comes as activists gathered last week in front of the cultural attache office for the united arab arafat's the arab emirates in washington. Dc to protest the planned rendition of former guantanamo. Chinook reveal men gossip back to russia. He's currently being held in a uae prison after being released from guantanamo. In two thousand. Seventeen where he too was held without. Charge for fifteen years advocates. Say seventeen other former guantanamo prisoners are now locked up in the way under inhumane conditions. This is helen sheet inger of witness against torture. He's the rest of their lives. We own the reparations us. We need to make sure that they are in good situations and continue to follow them and support them in attempting to make the rest of their lives for more. We're joined by two lawyers representing these men. Gary thompsons and attorney in private practice. Who's worked on pro bono guantanamo prisoners. He's the lead attorney for former guantanamo. Prisoner reveal men gaza off also with us mark mayor staff attorney for reprieve. Us who's represented six men in prison guantanamo including abdulatif nassir who has just released to morocco. Mark let's begin with you. Can you tell us the circumstances under which he was just released. And what's happening to abdulatif nassar now. Absolutely thank you for having me. On the circumstances under which was released actually begin back in twenty sixteen as you said abdelatif. Nassir was held for close to two decades nineteen years without charge or trial. He was actually cleared for release by the periodic review board which is a parole mike institution that was set up under the a barack obama's presidency and his staff by six members of a federal agencies from the united states including the departments of defense homeland security and the joint chiefs of staff. They determined unanimously. That up to latif nassir posed no threat to the united states or anybody and determined that he should be released from guantanamo. Unfortunately this determination came quite late in barack obama's presidency and the state department at that time defer to the next administration says we all know was the trump administration. President trump had campaigned on the idea of not closing tahoe. And in fact not transferring anyone out of guantanamo and largely kept that promise so even though up liffey nassir was cleared by senior civil servants from the us government. He had to sit and wait until the political will within the united states changed and as thrilled as we are that i'll not nassir is now out that he is back in morocco and his with his family and is trying to start a new life and is focused on the future of the fact remains that he lost close to two decades of his life and that number and twenty-seven men are still there without charge or trial Waiting for the political will of this administration to change us up and mark may. Could you talk a little bit about how he came to end. Up in one-ton mojo. I was originally a captured and transferred to detain there. And why did he never received trial. Well i can say that. The reason why he never seemed to trial is the same reason. Why a twenty seven of those men haven't received a trial either and that's because they have never faced any kind of charges at all they're being held essentially as prisoners of war abdullatif. Nassir ended up. In one tahoe. The way a lot of people ended up in guantanamo there was a bounty program essentially that was being run in afghanistan pakistan. I believe i the number. I might be getting wrong. I believe what the balance is being offered for. P- turning over people to afghan-american pakistani authorities was close to five thousand dollars at the time which was a huge life changing amount of money and he. We happen to know. In a lot of cases of people who ended up guantanamo that they were the result of people lying about the people who ended up there Or simply mistaken identity That's the case of another one of our clients who still detained. Guantanamo bay met rabbani the stories actually detailed in the senate torture report that he was detained. Mistakenly because the united states believed he was another man named hassan ghul he was severely tortured including techniques. That haven't been used since the spanish inquisition. The united states eventually actually detained mr hassan ghul at the same prison bog rem that Mister rabbani was being held at missiles. Strauss on goal was eventually released from there but now twenty years on a much like the situation that opt to latif nassir found him in just a month ago. Achmad rabbani remains there so sadly this is a situation that we've seen repeated for a number of the men who are still detained and the colts have been growing for the biden administration to close guantanamo. A how could that be done. And do you think it's likely one of the easiest ways is to begin with releasing the ten men who have been cleared for transfer and working to release all twenty seven of the who have never been again charged with any crime or at trial. It's unlikely that any of those men will ever face any trial This is especially true. In light of the fact that as well i think is your viewers and listeners will know the by administration has announced that the war in afghanistan is supposed to completely end By a i think mid august was the last Estimate that they had. And i believe earlier in the show We heard president biden saying that Combat troops will be exiting iraq by the end of the year. That says to me. I think to a lot of observers that the that the wars that led to these people being wrongly imprisoned in guantanamo or ending If there was ever a right and just time to be releasing these ben. This is the time to do it. The only thing that might be lacking moving these algae there is political will if they haven't been charged with anything if they haven't faced trial for anything if the wars are over then the question is what can the biden administration due to solve this problem. The question should be. What justification does the vitamin nistration. Still have to be detained. Be to be detaining. These people i wanna bring gary thompson into the conversation. The attorney who were pro bono for guantanamo prisoners and is the lead attorney for reveal manga. Zaw who is a former guantanamo prisoner. Can you tell us his full story. And then where he's ended up today. How.

guantanamo abdulatif nassir biden administration Nassir morocco united states latif nassir united arab arafat arab emirates helen sheet inger Gary thompsons mark mayor Mark let abdulatif nassar abdelatif departments of defense President trump liffey nassir nassir barack obama
"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Podcast

07:38 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

"That due process applies at guantanamo. So i think it's really hard to handicap beyond bunk dc circuit because. It's really hard to know where the judges who will end up in the middle. We'll come down. I mean the last time the dc circuit her guantanamo on bonk was the second time they went on bonk and the military commission case. And you know what folks remember if they remember anything about that. Was that the sort of the two wings of the dc circuit were very strongly in opposition to each other while judges. Maleta and wilkins both wanted to rest on narrow case specific grounds that deprived either of majority. It's possible that that's where we're headed here where you know. There's one camp. That firmly wants to say due process applies. There's one camp that firmly wants to dozens and there's a camp in the middle. That's going to embrace the biden administration's position and you know that i think is going to accomplish. Absolutely nothing in settling the law if instead we somehow got to a majority for due process applying. You know assuming that they say. Do you process applies. But it satisfied. Ben that puts the by the administration in a very interesting position from the perspective of do they have been asked the supreme court for at that point right if this is hold as opposed to assumes that. The due process clause applies to the guantanamo detainees. But that it doesn't require more than what the jurisprudence has already articulated. whether or not it cert worthy. I'm not sure it's actually surf provoking. We will have to see on that point latiff. I want to close with you. The guy who bears your name has gone home. What happens to him now and and let's use it. as a reflection. On sort of seven hundred people have been removed from guantanamo and sent elsewhere. What happens to them. Yeah the sort of tip to talk about his case. I zoom out a little bit for him. He is very lucky that he has a family to go to a home to go to job to go to. There is a rehab center for torture victims. Basically in his home city of casa blanca. It looks like he. Yeah he sort of has a has a path back to a a stable life. One of the things i. I remember vividly. When i started reporting this with you know this is not sort of my my zone. I got pulled into it because his name coincidence but but my my kind of an assumption i had at the beginning was after being held for so long This man if you didn't have you know anti-american sentiment and urges and and motivations before all of this he certainly would have them after that he would come out. And i kind of i was imagining it. Probably the same way as a lot of these other seven hundred guys that they would come out really pissed and what i found at least in abilities. Case and in several of the other from guantanamo detainees that. I talked to him getting out. He he wasn't or he's not angry so much as from what i can gather from his lawyer and his family. He's tired and he's sad. He wants to have a family. He wants to kind of do the things he hasn't been able to do for the last nineteen years. He has a name picked out for his first born child. And that's kind of a. I don't know it's like a just the fact that this man for whom we had very flimsy evidence. We held him for this long. And kinda now. That's that's the only thing he wants to do. I don't know to me that kind of puts a lot of this. Yes this sort of fighting over over who these guys are like. He has a lot of health. Complications has permanent hearing damage from sensory overload From guantanamo according to his lawyer like he has held his issues he just wants to get back to his family. He wants to be left alone. that's kind of the picture that i'm getting and in this guy's case and you know it's clear there thirty nine other cases where maybe that's not the case but in this case he might be able to just do that so i wanna ask you this precisely because you're not a lawyer you've some. You're just somebody who's engaged the case of this individual with a lot of complexity in a lot of sympathy as i. It's been a while. Since i've listened to your series about him but as i recall you concluded that he was almost certainly more tied to bin laden then his lawyer is allow that the evidence of his engagement in any particular violent activity was not all that strong but he was certainly associated in some sense with enemy forces. Is that a fair summary. Yeah and also i think kind of pivotal pivotally like from what we found that there was no evidence that he had ever tried to harm civilians that he had ever sort of targeted or kahn. After american citizens like those two things to me were like spoke. Pretty what do you think you know should have happened to abdelatif nassir. He was captured by either pakistani or or northern alliance forces and turned over to us forces with a kind of tag on his toe that said al qaeda we're allowed to detain the enemy in wartime nineteen years of detention on. That record seems pretty hard to understand. Like what to you. Would've been justice or a appropriate handling of lot of nassir. I think the situation. He's in right. Now is pretty reasonable. I mean sending him to the fact that he's from a country that is an ally that has you know security apparatus that is able to keep tabs on this guy and you know yeah. Pay attention to him to make sure that in the off chance that he does re engage which the numbers from the obama administration and forward have been very low You in in the case that he does re engage like that he can be stopped. But i think that that situation that he's in right now where it's like sent him home to his family and monitor him. That seems like a pretty reasonable. Uh solution keeping him for nineteen years before. That seems very extreme. it's it's obviously. It's easy for me to say this now Whether if i was the person in charge Right after nine eleven might have been a harder call but right now i think that scenario that seems like a very reasonable scenario. That could have been true. You know even fifteen years ago we're gonna leave it there. Lot of nassir steve vladeck. Thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you and ben. If i can just say one thing which is i just wanted to say. Thank you in series. That i reported you us out so much me and my colleagues and your we're just really grateful for your help supply-sider the.

guantanamo bonk Maleta biden administration latiff military commission wilkins casa blanca supreme court Ben abdelatif nassir bin laden obama administration kahn al qaeda steve vladeck ben
"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Podcast

07:47 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

"Transfer of you know muhammad al qahtani so i i think either. You're missing my point. I wasn't clear and my money is on the line. Maybe both so my point is not that they ought to do this at the expense of every other item on their domestic agenda. Because it's not hard to imagine. How every single republican will react. My point is that it is not. We're not gonna get anywhere unless they do. And so. yeah. I mean ben. Do i understand why. Closing guantanamo is administration's expanding any capital. Of course i do. If i were in the administration would feel the same way quite. Possibly that doesn't change the fact that they're the only ones in a position to do anything about it. And that's that's why were stuck now as opposed to why we've been stuck previously. I do think there are things they can do. Short of you know using their razor thin democratic majorities on guantanamo. I don't think for example the video plea deal proposal requires any legislation at all and so in so far. That was something they were willing to. Do you know as long as there were defendants who are willing to acquiesce. Identify could be pursued. I didn't they could really ramp up the efforts to not just get all ten of the pr. Be clear detainees out of guantanamo. But to actually see if any of the seventeen not. Pr be clear detainees might now actually get through the process because that has happened before so i won't be as clear as possible. It is not that. I blame the biden administration for where we are today. I do not. It's that so much of the sort of reasons why we're going to continue to be stock are because of the political factors that will lead the administration to expand capital on the things. It would need to do to actually make meaningful dent in that number okay and this brings us very neatly to al hilla the dc circuit case a to which you referred earlier which involves has actually potentially substantial implications for a lot of people but i think particularly for the remaining detainees who were in abdelatif nassar's position that is people who were pr be cleared for transfer got kind of stuck so Walk us through where where we are with that okay. So is one of a couple of the seventeen detainees who have not been cleared by pr. Bees whose habeas petitions took a really really really long time. These are not like second successive. These are first petitions and al hilo along with stifle a piracha. And there's i think one other. Ms i fully to purchase i. It's it's even hard for me to keep track of all these things. Anyway so al heels case finally got to the dc circuit last year and it produced this remarkably two thousand and nine like opinion because it produces remarkably two thousand nine like panel where you had a three judge panel of judges naomi. Row a raymond randolph. And former judge riffs and for folks who don't have the dc circuits guantanamo jurisprudence committed to memory. Judge ran off is the one who wrote the opinion that was reversed by the supreme court in brazil. He's the one who wrote dependent was your first by the supreme court in hamdan. He's the one who wrote the opinion that was reversed by the supreme court in boumediene and he was the one who worked the opinion that was vacated by the supreme court in piazza has some views on guantanamo. So the three judge panel held a couple of pretty important things but most importantly it held at guantanamo detainees categorically. Do not have due process rights. Judge griffiths separate concurring. Opinions suggest that it was unnecessary to reach that conclusion because as various other panels had done at various other points. One could assume that you process clause applied if one believe that whatever process that detainees had received met due process standards. And then the the detainee. Mr al hilla sought rehearing on bonk from dc circuit given. How sort of one sided a panel. He had received. The disease agreed to rehear the case on bonk. But and here's what technical especially important only the due process issue. There were actually some other important questions that the panel decided about. Whether the scope of the government's detention authority includes the power to detain someone who is not a member of al qaeda or any of its affiliated groups but who provided substantial support to al qaeda affiliates through non-belligerent activity. That's a big deal to that is not what's going before the on the unbound is just as i am the due process question so of course this led to the question of well. What's the biden administration gonna say about the due process clause and again we're back to carol and charlie's report in an according to caroline charlie. There was a huge interagency. Kerfuffle about what the by initiations position ought to be where all three positions were represented. Basically the notion that the due process clause should apply to the detainees and yet was satisfied. Here the notion that the court should not reach whether it applies because even if it does it was satisfied and the notion that the it was not applicable. All three positions were aired. Apparently the middle one one and so the brief that we have not seen as we've been told by caroline. Charlie takes no position on the due process question. It merely takes the position that to whatever extent to process applies the procedures at guantanamo comport with due process. Exactly so and that's an elegant compromise. If you don't think about it that much the reason why. I'm i'm sort of wary of that compromise and the reason why i've been wary of opinions making that point. Go all the way back to. I think it was then circuit. Judge brett cavanaugh. Who was the first. Big argument is because various judges on the dc circuit have suggested that some of the critical procedural rulings that the court of appeals reached in the first round of post boumediene cases ben back nine ten and eleven were informed by the assumption that the due process clause did not apply so for example the notion that the correct standard of of the burden of proof is a preponderance of the evidence not clear and convincing evidence. Well judge silverman has all but said the reason why you know. They're not troubled by hamdi is because that case of course was about due process so color me skeptical that the dc circuit jurisprudence over the last eleven twelve years would look the same if the due process clause clearly applied to the detainees. But the larger point. And i'm just gonna say working now i'll shut up. Is you know whatever this means. For the habeas cases it has enormous implications for the military commissions because to whatever extent in the government can get away with the argument that the procedures. These defendants are the detainees are receiving satisfied. You processing the habeas context. You know ben courts have a much better idea of what due process requires the criminal context especially in the capital context. And that's where i think. Al hilla could have enormous practical ramifications on the military commissions side answering that question one way or other. And do you have an instinct about how to handicap the bank dc circuit on this point. And let me just make the question a little harder and do you have an instinct about if the on bank dc circuit agrees with you. What the chances are the. Supreme court would regard the matter cert worthy where i have to say. There certainly is not a majority in my view for the idea..

guantanamo biden administration muhammad al qahtani supreme court al hilla abdelatif nassar al hilo raymond randolph Judge griffiths Mr al hilla ben al qaeda caroline charlie hamdan naomi piazza Judge brett cavanaugh brazil dc carol
"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Podcast

08:41 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

"Not anymore. I mean i think i think the most ardent defenders of the military commissions have shifted to y if they were properly designed. It'd be okay right. Basically have shifted back to arguments about why they're legally permissible. I think everyone accepts even begrudgingly that the current circumstances is is is problematic but legally permissible is a very different question than functioning. Well of course it is then those. Those of us who believed in the idea of military commissions did so because the argument was and we were wrong that they were both legally permissible and provided certain advantages over federal regular old federal courts for certain categories of counter terrorism cases. That second half leave aside whether the first half was right. That second half of the argument was simply wrong and nothing. That's happened over. The past twenty years provides an eye oda of support for it and i. I don't know anybody serious. Who doesn't accept that at this point. I'd be curious what general martin's things I mean he's serious But but i'll just haven't been it's worth taking a minute to talk about. Why right yes. We can all accept. The commission's have failed or at least they're at a point where they are where they are mired in the mud as a policy matter. I think it would be. I'd be derelict. If i didn't say at least a little bit about why that's true. And i think some of that is just bad institutional design you already alluded to my love for the court of military commission review of court that so far as i can tell served exactly zero purpose except to slow things down but you know i i i just i know i'm beating a dead horse here but also look at nashiri. I mean the latest brouhaha is we're back to the original sin which is torture that if the government were. I said this as so often on on the national security podcast. I can't even remember how offense like if the government were willing to take the death penalty off the in the nine eleven case tick the death penalty off the table in the sheree and stop trying to rely on evidence obtained from the cia. This would go a lot faster and you know i. There's there's a tendency on the part of governments lawyers and some of the military commission judges to blame defense lawyers for litigating every issue for raising every objection with all respect. That is their job right. If the government wanted this to be a success the government and not the defense lawyers have has the means of doing. So it's just it just would require the government to make choices that to this point it has been unwilling to make that well and and i would say more fundamentally even than that if you replayed this tape in federal court defense lawyers would do exactly the same thing they raise every issue they would make every possible jackson and not take twenty years to litigate the thing because because because because federal judges are better are better at this and they are more competent this and they would not be doing everything was a matter of first impression so if i'm curious for your you've been ambient aware of the military commission side of guantanamo but your guy was never in it. How does it seem to you. Does it seem like this kind of crazy side. Show that it that affects ultimately a small number of the of the detainees. Well of relatively large number of the remaining detainees but like habit you know from the point of view who followed really closely somebody who was not in the system. What is too well in a way. Yeah i i. It's sort of a i feel like they're just different flavors of dysfunctional here. The way that ability nassir kind of was ushered through this periodic review board system. I think it definitely sounds better than system. All these other detainees are going through this military commission system but it also had its own kind of challenges and issues and problems. But i think it was like those were like sort of surmountable in hannibal handleable problems. But but but it is to me. I think it was the thing that steve was saying earlier like this is this is reinventing the wheel. It seems so arduous. It seems like a and that would be if again as chief said like if if torture wasn't even involved this would be a very arduous process and then to add something that is I'm not a lawyer. But i this phrase raw. remember the What is the fruit of the poison tree or like like to me. There's it's like you're trying to do too immensely hard things at once. It's like the thing. I image i have of the. Have you guys ever seen those videos of the the cars that are on two wheels in trying to change the tires on two wheels like that kind of thing like it's like why would you do both of these things at the same time. It already seems so difficult and this already seems so kind of legally precarious politically dicey. Like there's like it's just it's it just seems like this impossible corner that the government has painted itself into. I think that's largely right. And say here is and this is why i've been. I've been trying look for signals from the biden administration that we're in for anything other than the end of the obama administration and to be perfectly honest so far. I haven't seen much you know. I'm in transferring transplant op. Nassir is as as we've said like you know that was just cleaning up a mess. That should have been cleaned up in two thousand seventeen. You know. i haven't seen the by. The administration expend any capital on any of the proposals. That are out there to actually make minimal progress on the military commission side for example trying to actually see if any of the defendants will agree to plead guilty by video conference in civilian court. Which is something that you know had been floated a lot during the bondage. Even for early period the trump administration no political capital in trying to push the democratic controlled congress to finally get rid of the domestic transfer restrictions that have been in the national defense authorization. Act every year since what twenty eleven. So you know were stuck here. And it's not the biden administration's fault that were stuck. But we're not going to get unstuck without someone doing something and that. Someone's not going to be the detainees and it's not going to be the detainee's lawyers okay. I wanna push back on you on this. Because i think if you're a look say a law professor at the university of texas you get to say this but if you were in the white house counsel's office or the defense department general counsel's office and you had to look out for the interests of your client and your client was the biden administration. It would be very hard to say. Oh let's urge the administration to spend. It's limited political capital in a fifty fifty senate to allow the transfer to the united states of detainees who let's say unlike abdelatif nassir unquestionably did really really horrible things and some of them. Let's remember who a few of them are. Mr al-qitani right who is not charged in a military commission right now. His case was dismissed for torture reasons. But he's the guy who was trying to meet mohammed atta in miami airport and was turned away by an an elite particularly alert border guard. Twenty years ago twenty years ago like would you as a lawyer for the presidency in one form or another really urge the transfer of you know muhammad al qahtani so i i think either. You're missing my point. I wasn't clear and my money is on the line..

court of military commission nashiri biden administration military commission sheree obama administration cia Nassir martin guantanamo jackson government steve abdelatif nassir congress defense department Mr al university of texas white house senate
"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Podcast

09:11 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast

"Kind of if you were looking. I say i think from a political strategy perspective. We're coming up on the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven Guantanamo still being there is kind of a reminder of what went wrong. I think to a lot of people and in a way to get people out of there would look like a mic. One time a smaller or to get rid of it Or close it down would be a win for this administration that said they. You know it's it's really hard getting guys out of there abdelatif first of all as you said. He had that sort of transfer package. It was completely done. It was just kind of paperwork that got snarled at the end. Like you know the secretary of defense his signature on a piece of paper essentially and so. That's what was holding him up. But like if you look at sort of his case like he's going back to morocco a country that is a stable country ally the united states. He has family there waiting for a job there waiting for him a house there waiting for him like he he was i think on paper he was the easiest case to transfer one of the folks i talked to who is involved in putting transfer together said that his case was not a low hanging fruit his case was annot hanging fruit it was like it was just right there it was It was the layup that the biden administration could just kind of put in the bucket. So steve how should we understand this transfer. There are fortyish people remaining at guantanamo. How many of them are plausible. Transfers at this point and how many of them fall into this category of really really difficult to imagine what a disposition that doesn't involve continued detention. Looks like there are Often like to think that there are four. categories ben of guantanamo detainees. And you know for folks who haven't seen it. The new york times has a fantastic thing called the guantanamo docket which really is a super helpful breakdown of of all of this including the four categories so with the transfer of missile latif. There are ten detainees who are of the remaining thirty nine who have already been cleared by the periodic review boards. Who you know. Meet the other sort of internal criteria for transfer and so the question is just if the biden administration is going to be able to find somewhere to send them of those tennis. Worth stress in a bunch of them are yemeni and that has continued to pose difficulties on the resettlement question. And just to be clear that because you can't easily repatriate somebody to yemen because of the state of that country so you have to find some third-country country attributing to take the person. At least one of the ten is stateless which raises complications of its own. So those ten. I think it's right to sort of about this the way. Let's put it as no hanging fruit. Said the low hanging fruit are the ten you know who have been cleared in are still there. There are another seventeen who are in detention not in the military commissions who have not been cleared by. Prp's and you know. I think those are the most complicated cases for the administration politically that will be the last nut to crack in the universe at guantanamo. There are two of the remaining thirty nine who are serving sentences pursuant to military commission convictions. And then there are ten who are in various stages of pretrial proceedings in the military commissions. And that's it and so you know twenty seven of the thirty nine on the tension side twelve of the thirty nine and the military commission side and the twelve on the military commission side that have their own problems. But i think from the from the perspective of an administration that has not repudiated commissions. You know. I think it's safe to assume those are going to soldier ahead at whatever terrifyingly slow paced. They're soldier in the the. You know the real political challenge the by administration the the diplomatic challenges. The ted who have already been cleared the political challenges the other seventeen all right before we turn to the other major issues that arose which coincidentally involve those other groups of people. Let's finish up with with the transfer Situation latif have you been in touch with Lot of nassar's family owned with him. I you were sort of famously. Not able to have direct contact with him while you were reporting your story about actually surprised. You're not in morocco hanging out with him now. It's yeah it was. I was very tempted. Let me tell you But i basically in reporting i did. A number of interviews with former guantanamo detainees. And those were the hardest interviews. I've ever done in my entire career impart because these men have been through a lot and they are very i mean they have all kinds of sort of ptsd and they have all kinds of Hesitations and unwillingness which you can sort of imagine to sit and subject themselves to more questions and so to me. I like that was actually very much. My first impulse like here. He's got gets transferred. Just jump on a plane. But then i realized that actually probably more productive. What would lead to a better interview and a more kinda humane way to approach. It is to sort of give them a little time. Let them settle with his family. modal space. I didn't want to be you know the pozo going in through brittany spears bathroom window or whatever and just give them a little space and then and then kinda pursue it. After that. And i think that Yeah i i have been sort of in touch with him through his lawyer and and as well with the family Again through the lawyer and yet they are. They are ecstatic. They're so excited They are and especially because it. Sort of coincidentally thank happened to be. He'd when when he sort of the day before he lands there so he celebrating his first. You know holiday with his family in nineteen years so they are. They are Very excited they are very. They're also a little bit. I mean kind of tender transitional time for them. Yeah so i. I think it's kinda we'll see how it shakes out and hopefully i'll be able to To get that you know interview that i've been waiting for for like five years now. So steve let's talk about general mark martin's who was the chief prosecutor of the military commissions. And as you described contended for a number of years that he would be there through the nine eleven trial mark. Martin's has now announced his retirement. The nine eleven trials still hasn't happened. What happened well you know. We only know been publicly. Reported ben and and so. I think it's an important caveat upfront but there are coincidences. That seemed to give a lot of credence to the public reporting. So carol rosenberg and at least on one of the stories i think. Charlie savage reported that martin's stepped away as the result of fight with others in the biden administration albeit unnamed. Others about the position the government was going to take on an interlocutory appeal in the al-nashiri case al-nashiri folks may remember is the alleged accused mastermind of the october. Two thousand bombing of the us has coal. It's al-nashiri case where the dc circuit in twenty nineteen wiped away three and a half years of pretrial proceedings because of a conflict that the trial judge hadn't disclosed here. Now ben what. We're what everyone's fighting about is an effort by the government led at the time general martin's to introduce statements al-nashiri made while he was in cia custody and by every account accept the government's being tortured not at his trial but at least in support of certain pretrial proceedings and the military commission and that fight produced a ruling by the trial. Judge judge a cost a gosh. I think it was late last year early this year. Adopting what to my mind was a rather implausible. Reading of the military commissions act under which those statements could be admitted for pretrial proceedings because pretrial proceedings were not quote proceedings in a military commission on that the that was just a reference to the trial. Whoever has the better argument al-nashiri has appealed that to the court of military commission review and general martin. Sears for court my favorite court the court that has has done the most the most article one courts bad name of any court. I can think of so. The that appeals. Pending and the time in of martin's departure was the day. The government's response was due and on that date. Not only did you know the times..

biden administration guantanamo abdelatif military commission nashiri morocco Situation latif nassar Guantanamo latif ben steve The new york times tennis brittany spears united states carol rosenberg ted Charlie savage mark martin
"abdelatif" Discussed on Post Reports

Post Reports

07:40 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on Post Reports

"Missy. Ryan covers national security for the post this week. Abdulah of nassar was released from prison. Sent back to morocco and is now at home with his family. They will spend eat together for the first time in nineteen years which in there is is a miracle in a statement about a lot of said quote. I have no words to describe my overwhelming sense of happiness and joy and there are other people who have been waiting to hear about abdellatif s- release. It feels good from our perspective. Like i think the. Us government promised this man to give him. it's freedom and they gave it to him and that's great and it feels great but there are also ten other men alone who've already been cleared for release. That are just waiting. There were free on paper. But they're stuck there and besides that there are many men there that haven't gotten their fair trial. If you listen to a lot of podcast you might know this voice. It is a lot of nassir. He's one of the co hosts a radio ad and as you may have noticed. His name is very similar to abdelatif. Nassir that weird coincidence was essentially the origin of a whole podcast series. It's called the other latiff and radio. Lot goes on this. Deep dive to understand more about the guantanamo detainee who shares his name and miss is the story of a guy the other lut if nassir the one that the senses does not count the one that if you write him a letter and i have many times it'll just come right back return to sender the one that doesn't have a passport a driver's license a social security number or phone number for that. I've come to think of him as a black hole in black hole. And that's because the other lot if nassir is detaining. Two four four at guantanamo bay. We talk radio blog on monday afternoon. To hear about what he's been thinking since abdelatif nassar's release and about who. This person is beyond his identity as they guantanamo prisoner. This guy grew up in morocco. Nerdy muslim kid from the suburbs. You know middle class loved science. Had a kind of boisterous family. He felt a lot like me at the beginning. And so for me. I was kind of looking at this guy and i was thinking what happened here. The us government took abdelatif into custody because they believed he engaged in terrorist activities but his defense attorney push back on almost every premise of those accusations. She was saying you know. This guy was effectively the aid worker in the wrong place at the wrong time. He didn't do any of those things he wasn't al qaeda didn't have relationship with osama bin laden like nah. None of these things are true. Is what his lawyer said. And so for me. I thought okay. There's like a like a vacuum of information here except for two things which are diametrically opposed to one another and somehow has really been covering this man and somehow just because of my name. I've been sort of thrust into it and now i can't not do it. You know what were some of the moments from his life that you really honed in on or that you felt like you were able to get a little bit of a better picture of who this guy is. The reason moment though is a big question which was at one point in his life he goes to sudan and he goes to work on osama bin laden sunflower farm and it was such a mysterious thing because he was in before that he was in libya was with his brother his life sort of made sense up until that point and then for some reason he just goes to a country where he knows nobody to work going to farm. He's a city kid. He doesn't have any kind of farming experience. So far as i can tell paper. And why and kinda like trying to report that out really hard trying to figure out. Make sense of this guy's life you know. We came up with a interviewing his family. Basically you you can sort of piece together. Oh it has a little bit to do with. Maybe his mom's death or maybe it has a little bit to do with his feeling like You know he was a very promising. Young academic kidman potentially The first one is family to go to college but then he drops out. Because it doesn't go well you frustrated at all this academic promise and he's sort of spirals out because so much of this reporting process was was just like just piecing together just the tiniest scraps of information and trying to make a full picture of a life out of it. It feels like that. In inev- itself is part of. I think what is for many people so problematic about guantanamo. Is that because there is this vacuum of information about the people who are there. It's so easy for them to be two-dimensional even one dimensional Because they're just name in this kind of obscure black box of the us criminal justice system. And so i feel like what you were trying to do with this person. In many ways like push back against what guantanamo is at its core which is like taking a person and saying that they are a terrorist and then leaving the details at that. Yeah you're you're entirely right. Like if does feel like an erasure an eraser of a of a personality. So for example for so long in guantanamo. She's just Blackbox he didn't have a lawyer he did not so there was really hard to find out anything about it but then we got this one sheet and it was a list of his weights periodically. Way him and you'd be reading it and you'd be like is that like that's either a typo or a hunger strike like i can't tell or maybe he's sick and we were trying to piece together. Like what like imagine if someone had to recreate your life or try to try to imagine your whole life from just a list of your weight's over time. What do you know about how he was treated in guantanamo. He was not waterboarded. There were other. You know interrogation techniques that were used on him that some including myself would would call torture. For example sleep deprivation very prolonged solitary confinement sensory deprivation sensory overload. You've suffered serious hearing damage from being next to like noise machines that were running our generators. That were running for prolonged periods of time temperature. Extremities things like that. That i think i think most people would agree as torture. Did you get a chance to talk to his family or find out from them. What has been like for him to be in prison for did. I did get a chance to talk to his family. And it was very intense. I felt like they were family in mourning but without the kind of closure of a of a death and for them it's been nineteen years of just of just waiting to get their brother back to get some kind of closure to actually see him in person and be able to. Yeah kind of have this person back who've for for on tencent purposes besides like you know once a month video calls was like a ghost to them. Yeah well especially because my understanding is that he was supposed to be released from prison at the end of the obama administration or at least transferred out and then that didn't happen once trump was elected and that i can't imagine what that must have been like for his family to have the prospect of his freedom be so imminent.

abdelatif Abdulah nassar Nassir nassir morocco abdelatif nassar us government guantanamo osama bin laden Missy guantanamo bay Ryan al qaeda sudan libya kidman us obama administration trump
"abdelatif" Discussed on PRI's The World

PRI's The World

06:05 min | 1 year ago

"abdelatif" Discussed on PRI's The World

"Hotel. Sudanese people are muslim. Says ali will die to protect islam. If the former government made some mistakes all he tells me the new one should correct them but sudan can never get rid of religion altogether money but charlotte who um within sudan refuses. Secularism ali says in this transitional government was not elected which is true. The current government is supposed to pave the way for elections in a few years. People like ali say that big questions like the separation of religion and state must be decided by elected leader professor hassan el haj-ali mad agrees. He's a political scientist at the university of khartoum. Any issue regarding the future direction of the of the country should be lift to government mandated by the people hasaan argues. The transitional government is heading down slippery slope by trying to quote. dis llamas. is the country. Islamic principles profoundly influenced the way sudan's economy law and government all work. Hassan says so creating a secular system has major implications going to see a complete overhaul of our education system over judicial system or economic system has gone warns that if the government makes too many changes on social issues. they've risk backlash from religious conservatives. Because this is like you're trying to impose before from above bike. The government trying to make social engineering from in other words controversial issues about identity and religion though should wait but the current government has already started making big changes. Its recently introduced. Alternatives to islamic banking created a council to review family laws that are rooted and sharia law and making major reforms in its education system. We'll hear more about that tomorrow for the world. i'm holy mickey condie are tomb sudan. Sacred nation is our ongoing series about religion and nationalism around the globe with funding from the henry. Lewis foundation explore the series online at the world dot org slash sacred nation. Thirty nine prisoners remain the guantanamo bay detention camp after one man abdelatif. Nassir was sent home today to morocco. He was a commander in weapons trainer for the taliban in afghanistan but was never charged with a crime during his. Nearly twenty years of incarceration at guantanamo nassir is now in the hands of moroccan authorities. He's the first prisoner. That president biden is transferred out of gitmo and each remaining case poses questions about the future of the camp ever since the military prison was bill. Carol rosenberg is reported on deeply. She's with the new york times carol. Let's begin with today's news. What could this transformation for. The remaining thirty nine detainees at guantanamo. So first of all it shows that the binding administration is back in the business of trying to get people out and close the detention center. Which is the unfinished business of the obama. Administration your question about the existence of the base. I mean there's been a debate. Questions asked with each administration since the george w bush about whether or if the gitmo prison would be shut down. What does this tell you and just your own understanding having reported on the facility for so long that they seem to be adopting the obama playbook which is figure out how to get the people they can. And then i mean. They've made clear they're going to try to work with congress on trying to figure out the solution for the people they can't or won't send to third countries. You know mark. The only way to close guantanamo is to move guantanamo. The united states is to have a detention style setting for the folks they will not release the convicts or the people they want to put on trial and perhaps some people they think are dangerous and pick them up and move them to a. Us setting came to call it. Quintana north but congress has blocked that they refused to allow any of those men to be relocated to the united states for any reason not for trial not for detention not for medical treatment. So it's a big big climb for this administration to find the allies in congress to allow them to move however many dozens dozen to some sort of secure setting the united states. Is this a partisan issue in politics again. Get in the way of moving to the us. It seems to be kind of red meat in campaign season to Accuse anyone who's willing to come up with an alternative to guantanamo two accused of being soft on terror. That's sort of the line but there's no suggestion that these men will be released in the united states. The ideas that they would be tried convicted or plead guilty and put in maximum security south settings. So carol you recently returned to guantanamo bay after the pandemic kept you away for five hundred days. Was that the longest period of time. You've not been on assignment there since it opened in two thousand two. What did you see what was different. I spent well over a thousand nights at guantanamo across the years. And i've never been away for you. Know the equivalent of a full calendar year. Plus and what. I was really struck. Me marco. is that virtually every single person who works at the prison and all of the leadership at the base has turned over Came down with a group of reporters and a group of lawyers for the first hearing an and a case involving a man accused of being an al qaeda commander and the only people who knew what the last hearing looked like a couple of years ago. Where the prisoner. The press and the lawyers all the soldiers. Even the judge were new case. There's a lot. There's a lot to be learned by the new people who are going to be handling this procedures. Your ties reporter. Carol rosenberg has written about guantanamo bay. Since the detention camp was built in two thousand and two carol. Thanks very much for joining us. Oh it's.

sudan ali hassan el haj ali mad university of khartoum guantanamo mickey condie Lewis foundation Nassir guantanamo nassir Carol rosenberg president biden guantanamo bay Hassan us charlotte congress obama morocco taliban
Israel and Hamas Claim Victory as Fragile Ceasefire Holds

NBC Nightly News

01:25 min | 1 year ago

Israel and Hamas Claim Victory as Fragile Ceasefire Holds

"The media is where we start again. Tonight it is in gaza residents counting their losses and gingerly surveying the destruction as a shaky. Truce goes into a second night. The rockets that crisscrossed the skies and aerial bombardments now silent israel and hamas claiming victory. But at what cost tonight. We have reporting from both sides of the conflict. Here's richard angle. Gaza today is bruised and battered eight thousand homes damaged or destroyed. Hamas did not win this fight militarily claiming victory in the ruins because it kept firing rockets until the very end during the peak of the fighting we found dean abdelatif just ten years old but with a powerful message. They don't deserve today. i met her. What does it been like for you and your little brother throughout all of this. We don't care if they have weapons are anything else we they're scared of us. And we're not scared of them. But in israel today the prime minister also claiming victory warning hamas of a new level of force if it fired i on israel again. Nbc's erin mclaughlin met ron. Whose house was hit by hamas rocket before the cease fire. Do you think the ceasefire is going to hold. Who knows maybe a month maybe two maybe half year maybe a year but some point usually on and on

Hamas Richard Angle Dean Abdelatif Israel Gaza Erin Mclaughlin NBC RON