20 Episode results for "Abby Wambach"
Introducing 'And Especially You'
"Low sunshine. Hello central gotta make hay while the sunshine. What's this? This is Hello sunshine. What is by sharing our stories? We could change the world. Welcome to Hello, sunshine. What happens when we come together to connect in person? I'm so feel Bush, and I love to create community with women who liked to roll up their sleeves and get real about the world about ourselves because we are in this together in my work as an activist as a storyteller, an after an a producer, and as a friend, a daughter neighbor, a woman, I wear my heart on my sleeve, that means being honest and being open about how I feel and what I want and taking a stand for what I believe in. And that has required quite a learning process learning to be real and learning to use my voice, even when it shakes, and how I value that that opportunity to have a voice this past year. I was lucky to be part of a group of women from all different backgrounds who value it to we shared stories, music, tears and much. After with audiences all across North America is part of the Hello sunshine by together live tour. Our speakers heard their dreams their heartbreak and their Embiid. And I am so excited to bring some of the stories and experiences to you in this podcast. And especially you these are stories for all of us. We're going to hear from some of my favorite people in the world. I'm talking straight to your soul writers like, Cheryl, strayed, inciteful and home. Larry's comedians like Sabrina JR. Elise. And some of my personal heroes. Fearless women challenging the status quo like Abby Wambach and Levy AGI, and especially you will be in your ears. So soon subscribe now at apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcasts or wherever you listen again. That's and especially you subscribe. Now, I'll see you soon.
Believe in your own greatness: Advice from Tim Cook, David Chang, Abby Wambach and more
"I'm Bob Pittman and here IHEART. We know that if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. In fact, that's the problem that net suite by Oracle has set out the saw. It's time to quit flying blind and unlike growth for your business with net sweet. Schedule! Your Free Demo Right now and receive your free guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits. Go to net sweet dot com slash math. That's net sweet dot com slash math. You're listening to math and magic a production of iheartradio. I'm Bob Pittman welcomed the math and magic stories from the frontiers in marketing. There's no question. The Corona virus has disrupted our natural way of life. This weekend is high school and college. Graduates around the country missed their traditional end of your celebrations. We iheart wanted to do something to mark the occasion, so he gathered some friends. Important leaders, creators, athletes and thinkers, and we asked them to give a personalized graduation address, and we took those speeches, and put them out as pie gas called commencement, and we broadcast the speeches on the radio. Radio as well was a small gesture, but felt good as a company to unite behind him, hearing from people like Abby Wambach David Chang, Bill Gates Mary J. Blige Eli Manning and Katie couric well, it was inspiring. The words are meaningful not just to graduate, but to anyone taking on the world, so for today's episode thought I pick up you inspiring lessons. I heard and commencement life lessons that can be applied to marketing and business, starting some advice from X. Alphabets Moonshot factory, and it comes from the Captain Moon shots himself, Astro Teller. For as long as I can remember. I've wanted to create an invention machine. Not An actual physical machine, but a place where groups of passionate talented people can throw themselves unleashed an unfiltered at the problems they care about most and emerge with radical solutions that are ten times better than anything. That's been possible before. I've always imagined such a place at the love. Child of nineteen sixties, NASA and Willy. WONKA's chocolate factory. I've been trying various iterations of this since I was in my twenties and I'm now ten years into building a moonshot factory. A place where we bring the audacity and. Them embodied by the space race to inventing in launching technologies that could help the world's most pressing problems. Problems like food scarcity internet connectivity in clean energy. Born Google X. now, just ex. We've created things like self driving cars, delivery drones, and barely the healthcare arm of alphabet. What bothers me is? The X. shouldn't be the only moonshot factory. We need more many more, not just big formal moonshot factories. We need millions more people waking up day. More creative, more brave. Urgent to find tech solutions to the world's biggest problems, I know there's lots of intelligence desire in resources being invested already. No one gets up. Monday. Morning saying this week I'm going to make a grandma progress. And yet that is almost exclusively. What happens and it doesn't need to be that way. We are all superheroes. The ability and aspiration is hair, even if it's buried deep in some of us, what's holding us back? As individuals and organizations is the strong gravitational pull towards conventional ways of thinking and behaving. Most of us have been conditioned by the environment around us not to fail not to take risks not to make anyone uncomfortable especially, if that person is your boss, so most of US ended up being too cautious, too Afraid Rock, the status quo, or make something up, and the irony is, it works the other way around. The most powerful and painful epiphany of my life was to stop hiding my inner Weirdo you don't get joy power money a sense of purpose whatever you crave by protecting yourself. You get those things and you protect yourself best by unleashing yourself. Everyone thinks it's someone else's job to come up with the weird new ideas and take big risks. Being companies think radical thinking is for startups. Startup, say it's the big guys who have all the resources. Universities do great research, but aren't set up to build real world solutions. Governments get mired in short term problems and there you have it suddenly. It's no one's job even when it should be everyone's job to help solve the problems of our time. I'm forty nine I've had to create a special brand for myself is a useful crazy person, because I'm supposed to know better so I need air cover for saying things that aren't normal. Your ideas are unfettered. Your perspectives are fresh and you're being young. Gives you air cover for throwing out. Crazy ideas, so go for it. Let them rip. You have another big advantage. You don't already know the answers and unlike the experts, you know you don't know the answers. There are still lots of jobs in which experience says a ton of time and hassle, but when the answers to current problems are far over the horizon, and all the rules have suddenly changed like we've just seen the experts believe they know the solution and just have to implement. It is why they will fail. Experimenting iterating and learning. Is the only way forward and doing that is a lot easier with your advantage. You can admit ahead of time. You don't have the solution upfront. For. Extremely complex problems like the world is facing today. There are no answers. There is no playbook. I! Love the Astros. Says about embracing your inner Weirdo. It's advice. We've heard on this program a lot whether it was shaggy talking about tackling music in a new way for Scott Hagedorn talking about new ways looking at data or even David Solomon the CEO Goldman Sachs talking about embracing his hobby as a DJ in his free time speaking of David in his commencement speech, he shared a lesson about time a commodity. You can't make more off. Here's how he learned to make the most of it. I've worked on. Wall Street for over three decades. Our work involves at times array of valuable commodities stock spots gold silver oil. You name it. But even a beggar. We'll tell you the most precious commodity of all time. No matter how smart and creative you may be, you cannot create more time and once you've spended. There's no way to get back. One of the great lessons my father taught me was the value of time and more important how to be a good steward of this finite commodity. I was a teenager frustrated that I couldn't fit into my schedule. Everything that I needed wanted to get done. Academic sports friends rest of high school life. So my father had me go through an exercise I'll never forget. With simple printed calendar, he had me right in each days. What I needed to get done. Including eating and sleeping and how long I thought I needed to do it. I protested of course, but when I was done, I realized that I still hadn't filled my day. There was more time. If I spent it wisely. Gradually learn to be very intentional with my time how I spent it. What I wasn't willing to give up a budget my time a lot tighter in the process discovered more of it. We're time to get things done to explore new things to do. What really mattered to me? To this day I make sure that even with a jam packed schedule of a CEO I make time outside my day to day to be with people from different industries and with different backgrounds. Time spent fostering relationships with diverse people who enrich my thinking. And Challenge. My assumptions makes life a whole lot more interesting. It also makes me a better person and in turn a better, CEO. I, hope you'll be a good steward of the gift of time invested wisely and yourself and others. With people who think differently than you do people you love. People who love you? Some who challenge you? And more than a few believe in you. As, we looked on social media for themes to cover. Confidence is one thing that always comes up. How do you build it for yourself? But also how do you infuse it in your team's culture? Abby. Wambach has bought sombat as two time Olympic gold, medalist and fiba women's World Cup champion. She describes the moment she helped secure the World Cup Championship. And why believe in yourself is just as important as believing in the greatness of your team. I see my teammates running toward me from every direction on the field and from the bench they're screaming and laughing and hugging I five in chest, bumping, and as they rush towards me, each of their amazed faces asking. Did we just do this? Did we just save our World Cup life in the last second? What the Hell just happened! What happened? Is that we believed. What happened. Is that we never stopped believing. There's a chance that the national teams loyal Fan Club. The American outlaws cheer from the stands. It has become the life blood pumping through our national teams veins. It goes like this. I I believe. I believe that we. I believe that we will win I believe that we would win. I believe that we will win. Graduates as you step out into an uncertain world. I WanNa tell you why this chant should become the life blood pumping through your veins to. I, believe. You must believe in the I. You must believe in yourself that world. Cup played doesn't happen if each player doesn't step up and claimed her specific power and skill to deliver the impossible. Christie Krieger Carly Pino each had to believe she was good enough and ready to execute her part within the broader play. None of those women could alone control the ultimate outcome of the game, but each was hell bent on controlling what she could control her part her moment her belief. Collective success is determined by individual accountability. The, greatest teams are made up of individual players who each relentlessly believe in their own greatness. Graduates in this moment. As you step out into the world. You don't know what fields you'll be on how high the stakes may be, but you can know this for sure. There is a part out there that only you can play. When the ball come see you and it will. You will have to decide that you're good enough. No one else can decide that for you. Be Bold be audacious. Believe in yourself especially when no one else does. And when the ball does, come to you when it's your turn to make a difference show up like our collective future depends on you because it does. I. I believe. I believe that we. Must believe in the we. Speaking of Teams Chef David. Chang has been a star in the restaurant scene for a while. Now he cut his teeth with legendary Momofuku, and he's now an author and TV personalities well, but in speech to young graduates. He made it clear that one of the biggest lessons he learned along the way is it isn't always about you. Here's how he learned to take the focus off himself and think about his team's happiness. Because I'm a chef now you might think that things collect when I wound up in cooking school at twenty two, but that would be incorrect I did have a good feeling about cooking, but I was so mediocre in fact, I was just bad that one of my classmates actually quit the program because of my lack of talent. I'm not kidding. They told her that I was going to be a partner for one semester and that she couldn't switch. So, she decided to drop out than be my partner. I stayed at school mostly because I had exhausted all other options. It's crazy thing, but by mid twenties I had worked so many jobs and tried so many things I a good chunk of the world to yet. I was convinced that was all the waste I looked at. My friends could not believe how far ahead of me they were. Maybe, some of you know that feeling and if you don't I'll tell you the same thing. Life Begins Rider about where you are right now. Conventional Wisdom says that college at the time to experiment. But now is when you can truly accumulate data to your advantage. This is the moment in your lives to be selfish, so use it and be smart about welcome. All the heartache disorientation enjoy that you can most of all lean into situations that might lead to mistakes. You have to taste failure so much. And so early, so you know how to deal with it later on when the stakes are higher. On Sundays may feel like. It's just too damn hard like it's not worth climbing back up that mountain again, but you have to keep going. It's as simple as this honor your time here, but just as I. Urge you to look inward to find yourself your voice and your purpose. I want to tell you that conviction can also be dangerous or at least it was for me. Five or so years into Momofuku. The company gone from being an army of one into employing over one hundred people. Now we have several hundred and they were all unhappy. The problem was me. I was miserable to work for in my fanatical quest. I was blind to those around me and their needs in my little world all matter what was good for me? This somehow had an immediately affected the quality of our work, but that luck didn't last forever not only did our magic spark dim I was more alone than when I graduated college. So, I want to leave you with greatest piece of knowledge. I've gained so far an idea. We should all remind ourselves in times like these. It's not about you. Going to be happiest in my opinion when you try to be selfless. Love how David evolved to think about his employees, but his theme of perseverance and grit struck a chord with me to, and it's a theme. I heard Chris Broussard's speeches. Well, we'll hear more from him Tim Cook and more after this break. I'm Bob Pittman, hero, math and magic. We understand that if you don't know your numbers, you don't Know Your Business and the question for any business owner out there the one that might keep you up at night second guessing your decisions is. Are you confident that you've got the right numbers at your fingertips? Every business decision ultimately turns to numbers. You can't make the right evaluations and the right decisions if you have the wrong numbers, or if it takes too long to get them. In fact, that's the problem that net suite by Oracle has set out to salt. Net Suite by Oracle is the world's number one cloud business system, but the full picture of your finances in one place and real time. Right from your phone or your desktop, so there's no more guessing no more worrying that what you don't know could hurt your business. Nets week gives you the visibility and control. You need to grow with confidence without nets. We disliked driving your car, no speedometer fuel gauge or like flying a plane with no instruments and as a pilot. It's impossible to fly an airplane by the CD your, pants. But, with net sweet, it's night and day difference all of a sudden you can see everything that matters and that unlocked serious growth. Did you know that net sweet was the world's first cloud business system after twenty years over eighteen thousand companies? That's right. Eighteen thousand companies run their businesses. Annette's we that's because nets. Customers grow three times faster than the S. and p. five hundred, and so can you. You so go right now to schedule. Your Free Demo and receive your Free Guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash math. It's time to quit flying blind, and unlike growth for your business with nets sweet. Remember you can set up your. Free Demo and get your free guide today at net sweet dot com slash map. That's net, sweet dot com slash math. IHEART radio and state farm know that the graduation stage is the first of many, and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send off. They've always dreamed of with our new podcast commencement, featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend. I'm honored to have the chance to speak to to share in this special moment, Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience Chelsea handler. Dare to do things that scare you if you can embrace. Embrace, the unknown and fully jump into what life has to offer you. There will be much to celebrate and much to enjoy, and Kenya reflect on the work you've done and celebrate moving into your new phase. These iconic names all coming together to celebrate you. The class of twenty twenty listened iheartradio's new podcast commencement brought to you by state farm speeches are now available on iheartradio, APP, or wherever you get your podcasts and remember state farm will be there for this stage and every stage after like a good neighbor. State farm is there. Welcome back to math and magic where we're highlighting some of the best and most inspiring speeches from this week's commencement by guest, Chris Broussard is a successful sports broadcaster Fox sports, one and Fox sports radio, but that wasn't always the case. He advanced career through sheer determination, grit and long hours. He attributes to success to never having a sense of entitlement. Even if that meant taking unpaid jobs take a listen. Do not have a sense of entitlement. This business doesn't. Oh, you anything I. don't care what school you went to i. don't care what your grade point average was i. don't care how highly you think of yourself. It doesn't owe you anything. Your mentality has got to be that. I've got to earn every single promotion or advancement that I get. I'll share with you. When I first started doing national television. Now I've been in the New York. Air's writer for the New York Times and done some local TV, but ESPN was starting a television show called cold pizza. Now it's called I take. And the show was as seven am eastern time and they were asking local riders into New York. To come into their studio early in the morning to do his for the show, they weren't paying a thing and they were putting you in a hotel overnight, so they would pick you up early in the morning, and then you would do do the show. I the went so far as to when I was on the west coast, covering Kobe Bryant in the against the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Finals Two thousand four that I would be on cold pizza at four am Pacific Time so I'm getting up at two thirty in the morning to go do this show for free no money. And I had other writers in the New York area say I can't believe you doing that. How desperate are you to be on television? They're not paying you anything and you're going on it for you. I I say I told him you gotTA. Give me a hotel room or I'm not doing your show. You better. Pay Me some money, or I'm not doing. Well now I do national television and radio career, and some of these guys are as far as they like to be. In their careers I didn't have a sense of entitlement. I figured this could help advance my career I can do it. I will do it, and now I get paid amounts of money to do television and radio, whereas then I wasn't getting anything. Don't think that you're entitled to a darn thing in this business or any business for that matter whatever field of endeavor you choose to go into. Chris like so many of our other commencement speakers acknowledged importance of putting in the work, but there's another factor the CEO of Apple Tim Cook wanted us to consider as he's been reading about Lincoln. He's been thinking about how important it is to race into uncertainty here. He is talking about the courage. You'll need in this time and the success that can result from. Not being able to leave the house leaves you with a lot of odd gaps of time to fill. I've been trying to use them to read and I keep coming back to Abraham Lincoln. I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to put these times into perspective. You'll be shocked at how clever and funny and a life is thinking still, Liz, how reserved in humble man managed in noisy times to call others to hope. It's also hard to imagine someone more defined by their circumstances. Lincoln found his country on fire and chose to run into the flames, and he gave everything he had to bring his people chaotic and squabbling fundamentally flawed yet fundamentally good along with him. The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present, he said. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew we must disin- thrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country. Graduates. Your case is new. For you, the old dogmas had never been an option. You don't have the luxury of being enthralled you enter a world of difficulty with open is tasked with writing story that is not necessarily of your choosing, but is still entirely yours. You promised this day. Many of you had to fight hard to earn it. Now, it's yours think a new. Act A new bill that better future than the one you thought was certain and in a fearful time. Call us once again to hope. Courage is also something I heard. In CNN Miller speech to Seattle, never went to college, but that didn't stop her. From becoming a successful actor, designer and producer and her speech, she talks about the importance of pushing away feelings of materiality. She also talks about standing up for what you believe in and creating a culture that advances your standards, not the world and her case that having the conviction to walk away from a role she was passionate about. My industry is an inspiring one, but it is not always been a place where women are respected equally with their male counterparts. This is a global issue. We still live in rampantly patriarchal society. It is essential that women. We cultivate the sense of worth we deserve to feel. I know it's hot and will though the world is beginning to shift their deep rooted prejudices that exist around gender. Women. Represent over half the population. It is essential that the places you work in resemble that statistic. Be Great leaders. Be The generation to really fight for equality. If you feel superior, get yourself in check. Respect the differences between men and women, people of Color the Lgbtq community and value the contribution of everyone to a workspace. If you start a company that company reflect the world as it is. We need leaders especially in moment. Who Do not marginalize who listen. WHO K Be Those leaders. A while ago, I turn down a project. That I was passionate about when I learned. The my male co star was going to be paid more than double. The salary I had been offered. I was forced to make a concession between my dignity and self worth and a role. I loved I was being pressured to accept a value of myself. Which I knew was wrong. And will be it with real difficulty, self judgment, and even shame I walked away from that pot. And that change something in me. It turned out to be a pivotal moment in my life, not because I took the pope because I didn't. And at that moment my worth was exactly the value I placed in myself. I, guess what I'm saying his. Stand up for yourself. Stand up, others. Stand up before you know deep down is fair. So much success comes down to a sense of southwest. Cultivate. That strength is best you can. Don't value yourself based upon the responses you get from other people some imagine perception of who you might be. And don't give yourself away to others. Hold on tight. This is your life and your experience. You might know Guy Rose's voice from how built this or the Ted Radio Hour? I liked the speech wasn't about blind optimism, but rather was about looking for opportunities in this time as difficult as things are right now, the world is full of opportunities. Things just waiting to be changed and after hearing his speech. Thank, you might agree. Not GonNa. Tell you something that may sound counterintuitive. Smile. Open your eyes look out and understand this. You are leaping into what might be the greatest moment of possibility in modern human history. Now before I get too deep into this. I want to explain what I mean by possibility. Isn't wild-eyed optimism or a belief that history is an inevitable march towards progress. That's rubbish. Possibility allows for a whole range of outcomes, massive failure regression loss. But possibility also allows for growth and resilience and recovery, and most importantly the possibility to dream, and then to realize a better way. Possibility in May of two thousand twenty is an opportunity to re imagine, and then to remake the world. And to do this. You're going to have to take big swings swings for the fences swings that will occasionally be home runs, but most of the time we'll be strikeouts. But if you take those swings right now, not in five years or ten years, but right now you will start to remake are very very challenging world. Is Some of you may know of interviewed. Thousands of some of the most inspiring people on the planet, and some of them are swinging for the fences, but they need you to join them. Pat Brown. He was a bow chemistry Professor Stanford he understood that livestock production accounts for a significant amount of greenhouse gas emissions, so he started impossible foods with the goal of figuring out how to make meet real meat that bleeds in sizzles from plant proteins. He's already succeeding, and if he finishes the job, it could cut carbon emissions by twenty to twenty five percent. Pat Brown didn't wait for others to make a change he did. Jimmy Wales wanted everyone on earth have the same access to knowledge that he did, so he created wikipedia as an open source online encyclopedia that functions as a nonprofit available to anyone anywhere anytime. He never really made any money off Wikipedia, even though it's one of the most visited websites on the planet. Jimmy Wales didn't wait for others to make a change he did. Alice waters started a farm to table. Restaurant called Chez Panisse in the early nineteen seventies in Berkeley. But she soon started to see how industrial farming and agriculture were polluting rivers damaging the environment, so alice started a movement, called the edible schoolyard and today. Thousands of schools across America are growing their vegetables in harmony with nature. Now it's not gonNA change the entire world today, but it's start alice waters didn't wait for others to make a change. She did it herself. Alicia Garza. Opel Patrisse cullors. They lived and breathed injustice. They didn't wait for permission. They inspired black lives matter. Toronto Burke knew intimately about the silence of sexual assault victims. She didn't wait for permission. She wrote two words that changed the world. Me To. Gratitude and Vanessa. Still. Kids ignited a movement of thousands of young people demanding climate justice. They didn't wait. They didn't ask for permission. Now if you walk around San Francisco today. You'll see ads for startups that will deliver cannabis to your home through a sophisticated APP. You'll see ads for better work productivity software. One startup even raised almost four hundred million dollars to build robots to make pizzas. We now have another new media company. This one raised more than a billion dollars all with the goal of creating ten minute video clips to keep you glued to your iphone while you wait in line at the grocery store. And look people will make money off of these ideas, and that's fine, but if you really want to take advantage of this incredible moment in history, no this you can make it happen by deciding to be more like Pat, Brown or Alice waters or Toronto Burke or Gretchen Berg. Don't wait. Everything and anything is possible coming out of this crisis. Can you use your energy? Your youth, your boldness to take a big swing for the fences to answer these questions. I think you know the answer. So. We need you to spend the summer building a plan. You are the jet is we have been waiting for? We need you to take this mission. There may never be an opportunity like this one again in your lifetime, and it's okay to feel scared. This is a hard time. But I promise you. You have been given a gift. Now right now it's your time to run the world. Care The keys. In. Don't look back and one more thing. May the force be with you. That's it for this week's math and magic the speeches I drew from barely skim the surface from General Stanley McChrystal to Katie Corey Ryan seacrest to Hillary Clinton Halsey to bill, Melinda. We've got fifty plus inspiring commencement speeches waiting for you on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast. Go check him out. That's commencement speeches for the class of twenty twenty until next time I'm Bob Pittman and thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to math and magic a production of IHEART radio. The show is hosted by Bob Pittman special. Thanks to sue Schillinger for booking. Wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki tour for pulling research bill plaques and Michael as our for their recording. Help our editor at Ryan Murdoch and of course gale. Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel, mango and everyone who helped. Bring this show to your ears until next time. Are you confident? You've got the right numbers at your fingertips. I'm Bob Pittman I'm here to tell you that. Serious entrepreneurs and finance teams run that suite by Oracle the world's number one cloud business system. It's time to quit flying blind, and unlike growth for your business with sweet schedule Your Free Demo right now and receive your free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits go two net sweet dot com slash math. That's net, sweet dot com slash math.
Glennon Doyle & Abby Wambach
"Creators are tired of being paid and clicks and lakes social media and streaming platforms. Help people find your work but getting you paid is another story with patriae on. You can stop rolling the dice of ad revenue and per stream payouts and grow your creative career through direct support of the people who care the most. Your fans since patriot is build for creators advertisers. You'll skip the middleman and develop a sustainable income source by offering or recurring membership. Tier fans intern. They'll get to exclusive community premium content. And the chance to become active participants in the work they love. The creative system is broken. So we're a few our podcast or a video maker a musician writer and illustrator or a creative person of any kind sign up on petri dot com. Now that's pat r. e. n. dot com and change the way your creativity is valued by building the steady income stream. You deserve From the family podcast. This is designed matters with debbie millman for fifteen years dippy moment has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do how they got to be who they are. And what they're thinking about and working on on this episode abby wambach and glennon doyle talk to that beyond zoom about love career mental health. Line myself mentally ill il makes it seem like i'm about to get better. Today's sponsor lexus employees engineers who described the phenomenon. That when alexis is truly doing its job. You don't notice most of what it's doing. It sounds a lot like what. I aspire to do with visual design for lexus. The specifics of craft operate in the background. In order to get out of the way of the emotion they are intended to evoke chief designer. Koa suge described as being akin to how happiness works as humans. We aren't necessarily conscious of being happy. But we know immediately. When we are unhappy we noticed the absence of happiness. Not necessarily happiness itself. That kind of thoughtfulness and curiosity is what drives innovation at lexus. Check them out at. Www dot lexus dot com slash curiosity in two thousand nine kalinin. Doyle was married with three children and she started writing a blog. Called monastery book. Epa came any normal bestseller but on the start of her tour for book number two a memoir about the dramatic destruction painstaking reconstruction of her marriage. Her life changed dramatically. She met abby wambach. Have you walk is two time. Olympic gold medalist fiba women's world cup champion and six time winner of the united states soccer athlete of year word. She has also written two bestselling books and has a third on the way. Happy one buck and glennon. Doyle are now married. They join me today from their home in florida to talk about their lives and careers before and after they met agian glennon. Welcome to this very special. Episode of design matters the near state writers institute and the university at albany speakers. Series thank you. You're so played into being very excited to yard very excited to meet you too and my wife. Roxanne gay says hi. She's fans of both of you as well rate absolutely amazing together all of it everything that you really follow everything. Thank you glennon. I like to start by reading an excerpt from your latest book untamed. Which as of this interview has been on the new york times bestseller list for twenty eight weeks. Congratulations that is quite a feat. So i'd like to sit a stage for what am about to read for our listeners read large librarians dinner with a group of other prominent. You're there to talk about the launch of your upcoming book. Love her which recount your then. As i mentioned husband's infidelity and subsequent attempts at reconciliation and forgiveness. And there you are at this dinner sitting in your assigned seat despite your talent for public speaking. You don't like small talk and sitting in your seat about to eat a salad. Here is the excerpt as i'm reaching addressing. The children's book lady looks over at the door. I look over to. Suddenly a woman is standing there. Where nothingness used to be. She takes up the entire doorway the entire room the entire universe. She has short hair platinum on top shaved on the sides. She's wearing a long trench coat. A red scarf a warm half smile. Cool steel confidence. She stands there for a moment taking inventory of the room. I stare at her and then take inventory of my entire life. My whole being says there she is then. I lose control of my body. I stand up in. Open my arms wide. She looks over cocks. Her head to the side raises her eyebrows. Smiles at me. Fuck fuck fuck. Why am i standing. Why are my arms open. Oh my god what am i doing. I sit back down. She walks around the table and shakes hands with everyone when she gets to me. I stand up again. turn around face. her i'm abby. She says. I ask if i can hug her. Because what if this is the only chance she smiles and opens her arms. Then the smell. That will become home to me. Skin like powder and fabric softener blended with the will of her coat and her cologne and something that smelled like air like outdoors like crisp sky like a baby and a woman and a man and the whole world. The only seat left is at the far end of the table. So she walks away from me and sits down abby. My first question is t you tell us about your experience in that moment when you first met glennon what did you feel what did you think what did you experience with that hug. Tell us everything will leaving us. This event I usually like to see who's going to be at the event kind of pick out. The person was talk to the most straight and at the time. I was really struggling to figure out what i was. Gonna write in my book and part glennon sore. Her backstory was mashing. Mike current store at the time. So i kind of knew that there was made you get beat a person that i'd be able to connect with and when i got into the room and she stood up. She didn't write this in in the book but she actually ended up doing a little bit so nobody else stood up. So this is. This is most supreme awkward moment in all of awkward moments so because she stood up it kind of forced my hand in having to walk around the whole table to her because there again i felt bad right But as soon as i got to her There was something that was that was happening in a couldn't pinpoint the time you know. She asked if we could hug. We hugged and sat down and then throughout the entire dinner. I just felt so annoyed. I was not sitting right next to her curious about what the energy was happening. And then as the dinner on. I kept building a building and then We got literally three or four minutes to walk from that back room to the dais to the stage where we were gonna go. Try to sell our books to the library of america and it was an energy between us that was definitely both ways. You know schuman's many years sober. I was dealing with trying to get sober at the time. I was like a month sober and so i thought maybe our relationship would be based in sobriety and that she was made to get her mentor me through might early sobriety days and then you know i heard her speak and that is what changed it all for me on. If you've ever heard glennon speak it's hard not to fall in love with her and it's hard not to listen and cry and laugh within seconds so though that initial moment for me might not have been there. She is like she experienced. It definitely happened throughout the rest of that night. And i went home. I read love warrior. It was funny because the way love where the marriage redemptions like she figures it out with cragg in the end and at the end. I was like what i like at three o'clock in the morning. I like shot. The broken nose like can't be that on a stage. He wasn't line so my experience. Now i know that the very next time you met in person which was several months later you had both untangled yourselves from your previous marriages so you could be together but you did this before you even kissed for the first time and so in reading forward and reading wolfpack in reading untamed. There's there's not a lot of detail in those months. So i'm wondering if you can share just a little bit about how you started to move to threaten your lives together at that point so the wild thing is not just we had never kissed we had never been in the same room again freight until we both. We can tell that hotel room right. This isn't even in the book. But at the event abby having assistant to was dear french abbas assisted was watching from there was a thousand librarians in the hall that we were in and she watching me speak and she was watching. Abby react to me speaking so abby was kind of tearing up being very emotional and her assistant understood that audience with your very hard time at that point with sobriety. The assistant came up to me at the end of the event. Handed me her card and said. I don't know what's happening tonight. But i've never seen abby like this. And i just feel like she needs you in her life. Mrs unbeknownst to me i have no idea but my sister and i was stunned but i was also like well that makes two of us lady i that i should be an obviously the A few days later. I was just stunned by this experience for days. A few days later. I wrote an email to abby about sobriety about my experience early sobriety and i sent it to the assistant. Because i didn't know early surprise. Should i even be reaching out to her idaho. I said if you think that this is a good thing for her to read senate your. That's how we started emailing so than the assistant sent it to abby abby. Email me back. We ended up just writing to each other every single day. Just writing writing writing writing eventually. Abby later on put together all of our emails in a book for me and tied it was just inches and inches thick so we fell in love through two rooms pig. We found out through writing to each other. And you know eventually. I understood that i was in love with her and i just felt i had been through infidelity so i had been on the other side of that inside of marriage and at some point i realize okay i don't i don't anymore believe that i owe this man the rest of my life but i do think that i owe it to him and to myself to untangle myself before it just was what we had was still so pure and beautiful that i felt like i can't f. it up by doing anything that would in the long run feel icky to the family right so we just had to just freakin decide on the phone. You know and then. I sat down with craig and said i don't know if this is a workout with her but i do know i can't anymore. Pretend that this is what i want so regardless of whether it works out with ami or not i have to go. You know and it's made more complicated because both of us had. I lived in portland oregon. At the time she lived at naples. How do we do this without really even knowing for sure that this is gonna work out you know so we both had to take big leaps of faith in both dead thankfully in the other side to this the three kids right and crag and how you deflate. He handled this situation. You know when button told him first thing he said to her. I mean basically a joke but it's true like us. What i'll be nichols is about right and i was like. Oh my god. I think it might be and it really important town or even though what could have been a really hard time like we were all your both dealing with really hard things like. We're both trying to in the best way we knew to extricate ourselves from our former lives so that we can create room for each other in reading untamed and forward the memoir that abby was at the librarians dinner to promote the intricacies of the threads. That tie you together. And the first thing i want to ask you about is control. Abby use state this in the fall you this. I'll admit some hard truths about myself. I know i'm a bit of a nightmare to live with with my need for control constantly at odds with my instinct to go with the flow and glennon. You write this in untamed. I would say in my marriage with abby. I have come to understand that. I moved very controlling person. Okay and before in my other relationships. I just thought i was a very good leader. I relate by the way to both so clinton what the before before we get into the nitty gritty of control. I want to ask you what you think. The differences between being controlling and being a good leader. Okay so i believe that. Abby is an excellent leader. And i think it's because she finds a way to trust the people she's leaving. Abby has a trust in the universe. She has a trust that things will work out. Like i don't even understand what that me like things don't work. I work them right. Like i make them work at work. Then nothing works like she believes in people and that allows her to Bring out the best in people trust when an outcome happens. It wasn't exactly her idea. I think that's leadership right. I tend. I think the control thing comes with a lack of trust. Okay so i actually to my children to my way i am here to help you make all of your dreams come true so now i'm going to tell you what your dreams are absolutely right. I just want what i really wanted is just my best for you okay. So so it's a your version of best. Yes yes in that. Come which is balanced my i. I will tell you what the death and then we will go for that. I think the difference between leadership in control has something to do with trust. Well it's interesting because you've said that you think that a person can control people or love people but you can't do both figured that out in conversations and one of the things that's really beautiful for me. Being in a same gender marriage is that each. I mean we. Don't we talk about free things to the point where it's just like wolves ridiculous. Don't you think it's ridiculous so one day. I was talking to her about something. That i sometimes i feel like. I'm doing the thing where i'm just helping. I'm just leading. Abby can see through that she knows. When i'm being manipulative and doing the controlling things so she stopped me when jason glennon. I can tell that you're trying to control me right now and they just want you to know that that makes me really sad because i respect you and trust you so much and when you do what you're doing right now i can feel deeply that you just don't trust me. She was exactly right. So that's what i figured out. I can love her. Or i can control her but i can't do both because love requires his radical trust so we only try to control things that we don't trust them. See that i think think that is you know. There's fear factor. It's based on in some ways how we've been brought up in the way that we see the world in you have zaidi and that sets the scene for you right in certain ways so though you might have some controlling tendencies. I understand why you had them. And also the hard part for those folks who are in control and successful is that they actually think condemn. The success of their life is because of their control right. and so. that's why it's so hard to disassociate. So this need for control or proceed need for control because it's so closely tied in to the success of person's life in some ways. Maybe i'm wrong like that's true seriously that he. I don't pretend to know everything. This no i just know that my leadership different. They think it's interesting. I think that there have been times when i've had conversations with roxana about this and she's like well don't you trust me. And it's not a matter of not trusting her. It's a matter of not trusting myself in my life that anything could bad could happen at any given time and therefore i have to be on constant alert to make sure that nothing bad is going to happen and make sure everything stays exactly the same every single day. It's really exhausting. But i i don't think it's about not trusting the other person because i do feel deeply trustful of that person's presence in my life and feelings it's a matter of not trusting the world i have to protect is this needs to be protected. Don't you feel like it's actually a deep almost spiritual. it's a duke. Some people believe that the world is on their side and we are seeing a work. How and this everything happens to read and some people. Don't believe that thug. Abloh believe that if the world these together because i worried enough yet yes absolutely and also it's perceived a perception of how in danger. You are right like for me. i'll go into. I know best mood when when our lives are at stake right. So when i'm in fighter flight mammon nat experience for. I'm trying to make sure everybody gets out alive of some situation. Like this is a situation where i gotta go into that mode. That's the ad is where you think everything is life and death. yes it right. Like item on much of that is mental health stuff. I don't know. But i do live in fighter flight but the very thing that we couldn't marriage that is could be problematic. Is the very thing that makes you a best activists on the planet. So it's like. I don't know i can take some of it if you're saving the world. Yes i totally get it there times and i think you might sort of find this to be incredulous but there are times when i'm watching a sports game. Some sort of baseball game or a soccer game. Football game in my team is losing. I have to leave the room. Because i think i'm the reason they're losing has nothing to do with the play yet. Yeah yeah. I remember a time when there was a blackout in new york and i was in boston at the time it was a big blackout and i remember thinking. I'm so glad. I'm not new york if this was my blow dryer. So it's it's a worrying but it's also a grandiosity humility in thank you control the world or that. I'm responsible for all the bad things in the world. It's not like if something good happens like there's a rainbow and i'm like. Oh yeah it's what we take credit for none of death but we take responsibility for all of the night. I'm a why. I'm able to see the way that i see. It now is because i have been in certain situations that i was one of the best players or on one the best teams in the world and things went wrong and it was my and your business in there debbie. I was also struck by the notion in both of your books that you both have struggled with feeling like a fraud. Which is something that i also struggled with. Nearly every day in fact abby you have an entire chapter dedicated to the feeling in forward and it's hard to imagine the holder of the world record for international goals for both men and women. Soccer players could ever feel like a fraud. I mean that is tangible evidence. That's the nice thing about sports in math. Is tangible evidence. To goals is more than one goal. So there's like a clear winner here so so what do you both feel. Is the foundation of that fraud. Nece so that fraud ity word. I've made up. But like i think that the higher you are able to climb a mountain the less stable your footing is and i think that all people who achieved really high levels of success in anyway. We're not talking about just monetarily. I'm talking about Doing what they're wanting to doing the highest level. I think that feels so daunting. I think all people who find themselves in that position have to look in the mirror and one for how you this right. That doesn't mean that there is equal amount of knowing that you deserve to be there an understanding. I also think that women have a harder time believing that they deserve any kind of reward for their hard work because we've been kind of given a lie. Our whole lives that everything that we get is handed to us. Not so yeah. Those runs well and also to be people who aren't leading her out there leading and who have so many struggles right. I mean to be people who abby as a person who was being called captain america and they'll also struggling mightily with alcoholism. But you know. I am a clinically depressed motivational speaker. It's not it's a tricky tricky right. When i talk about. This concept imposters in jim fraud. Whenever you wanna call it. It is so much more relevant in deep in my friends who are women than my friends. Who are who are not women. And i and i do believe that's because we have always been a part of a culture where men can lead in can fail and men can lead and can have problems in men in that is never an issue but we all we live in a place where women are expected to be perfect whatever that means and so any woman who is in any particular place of power leadership who is also human feels scared about that and it and it's not a wrong feeling because women no inherently that the second bay make a human mistake the secondary their humanity comes to the forefront. They will be crucified for it now. Made up like that's what we do to women. We allow them to rise a little bit in the me. Take them down so whenever people talk about this as something we should just get over. I always think. I think it's something that we should study and know how to deal with. But i think it's legit back in two thousand seventeen. I curated an exhibit called. Text me how. We'd live in language at the museum of design atlanta. The collection was focused on the intersection of visual imagery and language. And how language is the connecting factor among the human race. It was built upon my belief that we live. In and through words we use words to express and define our reality somehow by having these concrete messages in one specific place where we can all view them at the same time. Maybe we'll get to enjoy that. Feeling of being fundamentally connected. Today's sponsor lexus has a similar philosophy. What of their core practices is barred from the japanese service and hospitality industry and it is called. He go refers to words and phrases and the japanese language that are used in a formal situation or that show respect and civility to each other. It's considered one of the most polite forms of communication and lexus. Wanted to apply that sense of respect when designing their cars. This is one of the many ways. Lexus puts people at the center of their brand to learn more about lexus visit. Www dot lexus dot com slash curiosity. Glennon came out when you fell in love with abby. Which means you came at around forty. I came out when i was fifty. Which was nine years ago and abby. Though you came out in college you still struggled with it. You'd think by now it would be easier but it still seems like something someone has to announce as opposed to just being that way. It's interesting that people still feel the need to announce their sexuality when they're gay as opposed to win their straight you know how do you feel if at all that. The world has changed for young people coming out now. I love this question. Because i think it has changed drastically in twenty years Our children our oldest. He told us years ago. He's like commander. Stand the fight or lgbtq rights but really like people my age care like just yanni. You love you. Love and my. That's the end of the story. He said that's a grownup promise. Cigar sets you're traveling. We have come far away and the interesting dichotomy between glennon is that axel have been learning to do around it. Because i haven't turned allies homophobia inside of me based on my upbringing being brought up catholics the fear god or whatever is inside of me glennon just doesn't have that kind of shame but i just think it's been such a beautiful thing to witness over the last twenty years the growth of our country the rights that we now have hopefully not pay. They won't be threatened over the coming years. And i think there's more to it when just like i just happen to not have shame you did. I think it's because we grew up in des came out in different times. So i've been were at the bank recently. And the man handed us people work for us to sign to become part of the stink and right handed to us and at the top it said husband and wife and i just burst out laughing. I just said do you have got to be frigging kidding me. Rex table is a look at this. You just handed us. This people worked at says to us right here that we don't belong where you're trying to get like man. Are you out of your mind. And she thousand twenty. This is what i was saying to him and so we worked out. We talked to him about welcome to this century and then got back in the car. In abbey was really quiet. She said why is it always. You speaks out in those moments. She said i will do that paperwork. I noticed it. And i wasn't gonna say thing. Is it always you and we talked about that so much. Here's what i think is the answer to that. Because abby new sheila's gay as a kid. She grew up in a time where she was being told. She was an abomination she had. She had stand screaming dyke at her from while she played on that she dated every single one of her girlfriends knowing that she would never get married okay. She was used to being marginalized. I grew as a heterosexual white abled thin pretty enough christian girl woman. Okay i was. I am not used to being martial last. It is shocking to me when it happens right and so when that win something like that happens to me. My initial reaction is to burst out laughing into something right. Abby has grown up a time where she's used. Oh yeah jack right. But i think that's what it is because we came out at different times and people like you who came out when the risk of so much higher are the people who earned the entitlement. I come to the cableway love for me. Yeah yeah. I have to say that that roxanne go through some very similar but but different types of scenarios because she's black and because she's living in an unruly body she gets. I can't even begin to talk about. And that's really her story as well but she gets so much discrimination. And i'm very similar glenn and i see it and i'm like whoa. Whoa wait a minute. What just happened here. We were on a on a work trip last week. And we were checking into a hotel and the hotel didn't seem to have a reservation and looked roxanne only and i looked at him. And i'm like whoa. You sound skeptical about the reservation. Is there a problem here. And i didn't think twice about it. I just said what i said. 'cause he kind of gave us a bad vibe and i wasn't gonna stand for it and afterward roxanne said the same thing like i would never said anything i wouldn't have said anything and i'm like i'm the same way. I'm used to a life of real privilege as an able bodied white woman living in new york city and it's shocking to witness the amount of discrimination that i now see. That's why it's so important for those who haven't celts. Certain kinds of marginalization 's in their life to speak up for those who are marginalized because this is exact thing. It's like that moment would have been missed by this bank. That glennon hadn't said something. That moment would have happened again to the next gay couple that walked in the door again. It had it not been for her. They changed her whole policy. Now spouse spouse right. Curtain from our partner should well. It's just Enemy think about a case so we are white semi famous people. That should happen to us. Tonight i talked to a friend after had said something online about feeling not aligned with the born this way narratives and there was a big to do about it and I had said something to her about my experience coming up in the acceptance in the love and the and she and i and she said well you know gain as clearness at this moment is accepted and embraced for about ten people in your one of the right leg but you your experience is not the experience still of most queer kids in this and we'll be doing for our son or son came out to us A few months ago or year ago now and just even thinking about his. He'll have a dif- it's congratulations. Thank you we were laughing. We've got one it was. It was such an interesting big for me. Because i still have incentives internalized homophobia inside of me. Oh so do i. When he told us my initial feeling was total fear he and i was so scared for him. In that moment did for me was healed. So many childhood traumas. Around the way that i experienced coming out with my mom that it made me understand that. Oh she wasn't afraid of me. She was afraid former u. And that is a chasm wide difference. It made me see and understand the situation very differently she is. She doesn't want to have a hard harder life and it is a harder life also way. Better life hokey better better than i've been on both sides. I know work. The har- you booth rate at length about your deep desire to be seen and how before meeting each other. You felt like you weren't really truly being seen by anybody. So how have you opened yourself up to being seen. I think that's a big struggle for a lot of people you want to know. It's like it's not about glennon. The way in which glennon loves me makes me feel not just seen but held right. So i've changed so much over the last four years and it's because i feel like i keep turning into the person i believe glen sees me be. Let's like one minute acoustic butter another. And and that's true in guides me gives me comfort in love rather than drag like. oh god. she's looking at me all the time. It's like no. It's feels inspiring. I think that that's the big difference between any relationship. I had before blended now. Good luck answering. I guess i guess it i You're really the only person that. I'm not always trying to do better than i am. What like i just feel like. I'm an anxious person. I'm just always trying to be calm. That i'mma controlling sooner always trying not to like. I'll never forget. The first time that i had i would say it's kind of like a panic attack win in front of you. We were laying in bed. And i just started this panic attack thing and i was in the middle of it and i was so embarrassed knows curled up in a ball. The bad we may throw you were just like holding me. We made it through. And then i said something like i'm so sorry afterwards in you said oh that's like that's just what happens to people who are najib as you are when you're just feeling the univer so deeply and i wouldn't change these moments for anything now it's like. Oh my gosh like literally have a panic attack with this woman and she thinks it's magic. There's nothing i can do to blow this up. This is the ultimate feeling of safety. Because because i've dealt with mental health struggles My whole life. I have this fear that like my shame. Fear is okay on crazy and eventually they'll figure it out and then it'll be over so to have that moment and half her see it as part of beauty not even a departure from it now. Yes you are crazy. Fire the not yeah. It is like anything that is hiding. That could be found out that will make you love you less gun. And you've written about how women are taught that the deep underlying belief about what we want is that if what we want hurts people it must be bad and dangerous and it was really thinking about this in relation to the dynamic between you and what you both do and i started to wonder about how that relates to sports and abby i was wondering if that notion flies in the face of being a competitive athlete demanding the ball and wanting to win. Does that ever come into conflict with wanting to be generous or wanting to give other people the opportunity to do. Well you ever feel that you need to share that a really really important question. Because the answer is and boats right the answer is both things can be true at the same time that you want to win. You want to be the best that you can be. You want ambition. You want money whatever it is right and you can also want the people to right and left time that i spent on. The one team was so important. Not just for me. But it's important for the world because they're trying to revolutionize how leadership can actually evolve and go out in the true in the world so our national team. The way that it's built is to push each other and by pushing each other by not being afraid of competition right a competing of of putting online not being afraid of that allows you to make gains. So for instance will go into a practice and we'll be we'll be competing but we're not competing against each other. We're competing with each other. And that is a totally different ballgame. Because when you're competing with each other right it gives me an opportunity outs. Morgan schwarzer goal unlike awesome great job. It's forcing me to turn up my volume. A little bit of this is where i got to step up and most people in the world. They're like jealous. They look at that moment in cash like she always scored on. She gives me the ball all these like all of that is internal insecurity right so building leadership platforms of of people. Who aren't afraid to put it all on the line to be secure enough in themselves. That they don't have to find jealousy or or our. They getting that. I am not right. Like oh just it out yourself like if a diverse set an paraphrasing here. But we're trying to break through this glass ceiling of the house. That a man bill. She's like i'm going to be your building my own house. That is what leadership is and we need to encourage women and men alike to you see each other and to witness their successes and not try to replicate them. Would you say turn up volume auto bit. Did you read them making pianos piece about the wnba ensue. Sue and and her sense that this this whole league is doing so much activism and we need to be paying attention to that. It really gave me the sense that we were all in this together. Somehow yeah i think is a very true important to note that the wnba has been doing it has been saying things doing things that live living it. They are at the intersection of sexuality. The race women like they are the ones to be watching and us white invokes the check ourselves. Why are they as popular as the national security. Because they're not wait. Yes yeah it's who do we hold up to our children as heroes and wisn. There's women one of the things that i loved about preparing for this interview was seeing the commonalities in your lives. Even before you met another commonality both shares sobriety talked about that. A little bit blending. You've said this about the experience you said since i got sober. I've never been fine again. Not for a single moment. I've been exhausted and terrified an angry. I've been overwhelmed and underwhelmed depressed and anxious. I've been amazed and odd and delighted overjoyed. I have been alive. And so i get the sense that you don't ever really want to be fine and want to sort of feel everything. Is that right. Well i mean. I think it's also scenario in which you just decide what you can't have many. I don't choose it. I'm never going to be fine. Like that is not my experience. Since since i was kid i think this is why i ended up. In addition is that i had very high highs and lows in is a deeply sensitive kid and still am and Food just numb out. Until i found alcohol which was an even better stronger number and then all the other things so i think that you just figure out on the ten year forty in your forty. Hopefully that you are who you are and you're not gonna change it so i'm not going to spend the rest of my life trying to be what com not gonna try to be calmer flying. I'm just gonna see that you know there are gaps in it right like the sensitivity that redmi me into addiction is also the sensitivity that makes me artists. Yeah and the fire that i have which whatever that makes me have hard times and it makes me sweaty and it makes me but it also makes me activist right. So it's just i think for me. It's a matter of working what you have and figuring out. Sometimes the thing that you've been told is your Your whole life is actually your stink. Yeah actually something that you wrote in untamed is something that really stopped me and i thought about it a lot. One thing that people most see most to avoid is heartbreak. In fact i once had a student tell me he was afraid pursue his dreams because if you failed he would die of heartbreak. And yet you say. Heartbreak is not something to be avoided. Something to pursue heartbreak is one of the greatest clues of our lives. And i just wanted to ask if you can talk about. In what way. how how. How can we use our heartbreak to fuel our future. You know my job. Basically for the last fifteen years has just been to listen. Deeply women right. That's what i do and it feels to me like what women want. The most is purpose and their people they want purpose in connection with. What if i die without finding my purpose what if i die without ever finding my my people know in what might potential yup and what. I noticed about people who have found both is. It's always people who've figured out. What makes them angry. What makes them heartbroken. What makes them. It's like the thing they can't stand in the world and then they stand there i would. It would still unique about people. Is that what breaks. Everybody's heart is different right for some people. It's animal rights for some people. It's hunger for some people. It's some people's racial injustice in brazil. And then what i find is that when people can sit with that india curious about it instead of just happy away when they can ask themselves. Okay where are the people in the world who are working to change this thing that breaks my heart and then they go towards those people they find their purpose and their people. It's like in the very thing that we were so obsessed with happy in this culture. He happy follow my bliss okay. Well we don't investigate the more uncomfortable feelings because there's no bond. I know this is my work with the rising and all the. There's no bond that happens. That is stronger than the bond that happens among people who are doing the same world changing work. you know. it's just in our culture. We don't teach people how to interrogate and get curious about discomfort. Like envy is another one of those ones we all avoid and we feel ashamed a bit but what i have found is i'm only envious of the people who are doing the thing that i want to absolutely i see it as an alarm bell. Yeah absolutely like. I was drinking all the time. If somebody ended me a book that was written by a woman and it was beautiful it would make it was like looking to descend because there was a part of me that knew that a braver healthier version of myself do that. Yeah she did. I did it did today. So i'm conscious of time. I have about another hour's worth of questions that i prepared to ask you but i'm gonna try to call it down to two questions from the audience that they sent me from from the institute and the speaker series and then i'll have one last question for you from me so last two questions i. This is from our audience for glennon. I can imagine that throughout your life. You've experienced backlash and heat from some people. When you feel scared or unsure about schering parts of your life with the world. where do you draw your courage from. That's a beautiful question. So i have to say that the answer to that question is that i see all of life whether it's my family life my work life. I see everything through the lens of sobriety through the lens of recovered k. I spent ch the first while from the the time that i was tend to the time that i was twenty six very very sick in addiction. And when i got sober i learned from the people in those circles that the only way to stay healthy is to be ashamed of nothing to be ashamed of no part of your humanity and what i also learned in those circles listened is that we're all the freaky saying that. There's no deep fear or deep anxiety or deep terrible thing. I've done that. A million other be blend that the more personal we get the more we get the more Universal we are. So what i try to remember. All the time is that. I my one thing. My one thing in the world is not to be like a is not to be accepted. My one thing is to stay sober. And the way that i know how to stay sober is to not have secrets. That doesn't mean not have any privacy but it means to not keep anything inside me. That feels dark. Shame for right. Because what i've learned is that over and over again by take that thing out into the light a bunch people say. Hey me too. And then it's a million times less scary. So and the other thing that i know to be true for me is that i don't when i look at women who were living out loud into need doing important work. Moving moving us forward. Every single one of them receives backlashes. Oh yeah what. We would call hate. So i would feel afraid if i stopped seeing any of that right. I feel like i was no longer doing my job. That's if you stopped hearing any criticism than you know you have the right. Yup and this question for abby. In what ways do you feel the sports world. Both professional and collegiate athletics can do more to support the mental health of their athletes. Oh gosh i mean ever biting anything. Yeah you know. It's hard because they just focus on the physical really. We had a sports psychologist at focused on team but never really harped in on the individual's mental health inner just their overall mental health capabilities and whatnot. So for me. I think pro sports. I think sports in general we have to make sure we remember the veasley robotics these these humans that were putting through all of these physical cases are people too and it's a really tricky battle because you know we just watched this. Michael phelps documentary waiting goal would think it's called essentially it's his whole documentary about olympic athletes. Really suffering from mental illness and on mental differs differences. And the truth is like you gotta be a little bit looney to do something like that for so long into sacrifice. Your body and to sacrifice ban lead time when there is a. There's probably some truth to the fact that all pro athletes have a little bit of mental health stuff going on so we have actually dedicates resources to these stigmatizing. The idea that you might be week if in fact do have some mental health. Because i went through it towards the end of my career. I just wasn't prepared to retire mentally and financially which caused mental health stuff to do how you do all the things. So i think that if i could give the sports world any advice it would be to invest in resources for the mental health of athletes because it will help long-term right. You're going to have fewer people. Committing suicide and not mentioned sorts are inherently dangerous dangerous right. And if you have any kind of head trauma involved in your sporty. It's increasing the chances of some of those mental illnesses affecting that person later on in their lives and we have to start talking about with our children. How did that steel rain. Not brushing under the rug not saying like oh tappin s On it's like not like we actually have to help. Our kids learn how to deal with mental struggles emotional struggles of being an environment or it's hard to imagine given how money times humans get colds or or even just sort of any random ailment. Think that at some point in your life you're not going to be affected by mental illness. It just doesn't seem even remotely possible to be able to avoid that. Actually it's silly. It's very silly getting to the point where we understand that you know. Physical health isn't jusque physically sick people we all and mental health isn't disturb mentally. Ill like we all have rained yet. We bring hillard to nurture and take care of it and we're mentally different. Well i let myself mentally ill. It feels like if i come in in mentally ill makes. It seem like. I'm about to get better not debbie or not or you're really really fit you just have to cope with better and i agree. Okay well we'll rebrand this. So last thing i want to talk to you about. If you're willing sex okay so this is what you wrote about. Sex pre abbey in untamed. Sex marriage is like an oil change. You just have to keep doing it to keep things running smoothly and later on you go onto state. That sex was a stage and i was the player. I knew how to be desired. I did not no desire. I knew how to be wanted. I did not know how to want. Then when you talk about this lack of joy with your ex husband your therapist ask you if you had tried giving him blowjobs instead. She stated that many women found blowjobs to be less intimate. You then promptly left the therapist so my question to you is this and it's a really serious one and one that i i have personal interest in understanding. My question is how did you learn desire. I want to know. Oh we're talking about the stuff. I think that as started to understand. Desire i think desire was what i felt during their. She mama like i think been woke up in me. That looks like i want her like it wasn't like i want her to want me. Which is how. I had always understood this situation of lake. How rang up. And how you you just find somebody who's kind of like checks boxes and the need to get them to like you and then whatever it was a visceral like i want her and then when we admitted to skip getting more and more intense. Oh my god well especially all those months leading up anticipation guide. You must have destroyed. That hotel room debbie so it was so intense and then in the first and this is making her crazy she is so get so ameris. Talk about this stuff in public and private way and i can't talk about it hyperactivity i still that so interesting. Oh my god. That's so interesting it's sad to me. It's a common barest to talk about it. What one i don't know anyway. Well that's that's the whole notion of asking about desire because there seems to be some shame in wanting things in asking for what you want and engaging in that kind of pleasure rooted Sunday all women have to deal with right like going after what you want and being saying at yes so so then when the first time that we were together in the hotel room it was the first time that desire completely took over and then i was not acting. I didn't even understand what sexless without active. Meaning that when i was happy. I'm so sorry. I'm gonna say this when i was having sex previously which didn't happen i would i would say to myself was okay this time supposed to be. This is the the noises. I'm supposed to be making this time was to be moving. This is what i should do. Or say or a okay. And then with abby an invite away i was to say this guy. I'm going to say this. W litters fantastic. And i've just forgotten that there's like a lot of other people listening but i think that since abbey was like the more experienced lesbian relationship meaning she had any experience. I think we both assumed that when we finally got together in that hotel room that she would be the like arm dog one taking over in. That was not the case. How awesome indicate surprising for you. Yes okay now you. I don't know the question was never had an issue. No i i never bought into the whole ademi's fairytale that women aren't supposed to go after a long always been of the mind that there's gonna be things that are going to be harder because i'm a woman but i sure as hell am hallways to go for what i want and then being in an environment like limitations team where you see extra about sexy. She's talking about the national noted down noted she's going to soccer. Yeah well you're around people and the world tells you you're alive you should us you. Should we just like whatever. We don't care if you're telling us we can't have what we want to go ahead and go build it in And so that's what we did and as it relates to snacks. Like i definitely that you took more of a leadership role in that way. I love it. It's weird we're going full circle here in so many ways But i also think that was important for you was a truth in reality that had to come away to make is situation that you're getting into more real than truer and beautiful because it was like i want you. I'm going to be led by my desire here and not let you take over you so interesting now. I love it. You are both six an extraordinary inspiration. Thank you so much for doing so much. Good in the world with your work for sharing your ideas about love and power and sex and thank you so much for joining me today on this. Very special episode of design matters for the new york state writers institute and the university of speaker series. Thank you desert sleeping. This was your beautiful. thank you. Thank you clinton. Doyle's latest book is the number one new york times bestselling untamed and abby wambach. Latest book is the number one near times bestseller wolf pack. Come together unleash our power and change the game. They also together run together rising a nonprofit for women and children in crisis. You could read more about their work there at together rising dot for this sixteen year we been podcasting design matters and like to thank you for listening and remember. We can talk about making a difference. We can make a difference where we can do both. I am debbie norman. Look forward to talking with you again. Soon design matters is produced for the ted family podcasts by curtis fox productions in non pandemic times. The show is recorded at the school of visual arts masters branding program and new york city the first and longest running branding program in the world the editor in chief of design matters media is zachary pettit and the art director. Is emily violent.
131. Abby Wambach (re-release)
"This is a show about individual experience and personal identity. There may be times when folks use identifying words or phrases. That don't feel right to you. That's part of what we're exploring here. Please listen with an open heart and as always I welcome your plate engage feedback and I encourage you to continue the conversation in your own life and with your own community welcome to Hey Queiroz Cami your according from my apartment and yes you can hear some laundry in the background rattling around my actual in-person human book tour is cancelled which means that all those pre orders were refunded and also while you are in your home For the next couple of weeks I have planned virtual events with some really amazing raiders and podcasters and etcetera so. I hope that you've been following on social media because you can jump on them on zoom. You just need the meeting. Id Oh I should have. This already pulled up. You just need the meeting. Id which is for eight zero zero one nine nine nine one six. All the information about the different events is on my instagram. And my twitter. I've got events with Teagan and Sara and Not With Teen Sarah with teagan Quinn. Her own human and also I just had one with Rebecca sugar who created Steven Universe. Some other really awesome guests planned an upcoming can join me from anywhere and virtually go on a book tour with me That's what I'm doing to try to stay sane. Also I WANNA shout out Libro Dot. Fm which is a site that you can use to order the audiobook if you prior to the audio audio book the book should come out. Oh my book should come out tomorrow by the way the twenty fourth preorder the audiobook view. Libro you can then designate your local bookstore as the recipient of that sale. I think is really important to try to keep local businesses viable during this time. So that's something that you could do for the businesses in city You can go to Libro DOT FM and choose your local bookstore But yeah you can also get my book through Amazon or affable Anywhere and it's called. Save yourself and it is out tomorrow. March twenty fourth. In the meantime we are re releasing some episodes of Query. Because our podcast to you is shutdown. This episode is a chat with my friend. Abby Wambach who is an amazing Olympian and soccer star and human being and author? And Hey shoutout to Abbey's quite glennon doyle whose new book untamed hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Enjoy this chat with abby end. If you can grab that book save yourself would really appreciate it. Friends Take Care Aka me here. I'm on the balcony outside my apartment. I realize wanted to add something. Cancel tour for me. Means no income for any teacher months that I currently no so I just wanted to tell you that If you have it in your heart feel like they entertained. Save yourself is also available as an audio or e book on audible books. The big guys have it Amazon. Has IT or a noble? Has It Yeah cancelled tour. Means thousands of books returned with the tickets are not sold so anything you can do by care about it or just enjoy it and I hope you like. It came feeling still no careless. Good Morning. Good morning morning morning. We're actually it's currently happening. Can you believe it on this show? I always have folks introduce themselves. Would you introduce yourself well? I might be. I guess you've ever had that. Got A text message from her manager with my own bio for this very moment a and I just WanNa make it known to your followers in your listeners that I am not reading. This is off the top of my head. I mean all right. Yeah Yeah let's go. Let's let's hear that off the cuff android. My name is abby box. You may know me from the time that I played soccer for the United States. For many years It felt like centuries Melik such a long son. Amazing career I've got a couple of gold medals I've got woke up. Tb chip on. I've written a couple books now. One is coming out in April. Check it out. It's a wolf pack But I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I am what I call the wife of Glennon Doyle. My wife is amazing. And she is Really brought me back to life in a Lotta ways. So that's the thing that I kind of attach myself to the most And the thing most past. There's so many cool things to discuss in that very off the cuff intro by WanNa Start Abby by I got a chance to meet you. We did some live shows together for part of municipal. By the way you are so funny like you're brilliant but you're just you're fucked your tiny. I swear on this of course yet. Your timing is so on point and you're funny and I just feel like we see the world berries similarly so all of your jokes really landed on me. Oh thank you for saying that you know. I don't know what it's like for you. I'll say when you started talking I was like. Oh my God humiliating. I think she's about to give me a compliment like shoulders changed. I'm just saying Oh look how am I going to survive this? You did it. I did it I got to the other side. I had a lot of fun with those shows that we did. It's like it's A group of people and I was the only stand up on the on the dates that we did. And that's like a very fun situation for me to do stand up in because I feel like I actually. I actually liked that vibe standing up like getting up in the middle of Some folks were funny but maybe not telling jokes specifically because I feel like I'm like Oh man if you liked those witticisms you're gonNA love these jokes. That have been crafted over years. You know. Yeah it's like. It's a perfect platform for you to just crush exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes we actually brought a real comic and put a real comic like yourself on stage you know together tours what we actually I met doing It's one of those things that I feel really proud of a been a part of it for a few years now and my wife is actually the CO creator of it And the whole idea was to get women. However you identify yourself to be celebrated end to celebrate From different walks of life from different artists in industries as you yourself found yourself to be the the actual comedian. I try to be funny jokes. Not Landmark like yours do but it was really fun to be able to share the stage with you and to see how real comedians actually work. Well what I what I also took away was watching you know. I don't I don't know how I would imagine that for you. That is like such a monumental shift. I mean I know that in your well. I don't know I would imagine I would guess that in like your role as a leader on your team and also as somebody who is so famous for the sport that they played that you had to speak in front of people a lot but was that often live like I imagine. You know you're like you have a lot of experience on TV. You have a lot of experience in the spotlight. You have a lot of experience. Speaking in front of large groups of people live yet. You know it's interesting. That's a good question because I think what I was able to do on steeled gave me a platform off the field and I think that you probably can understand this. That what your craft is right. What you're good at what you are. Probably most known for in the world of women that we can't be one dimensional In a lot of ways and I think especially in the early stages of women sort you know. Forty years ago title nine happen and It was one of those. It's been a long period of time that women have padded continually fight. What we currently now have And so I had. I knew at a certain point in my career I had to develop Not a speaking ability but the ability to get up and to tell our story and I think that's I like camp. I like didn't I never thought of that Abbey till this moment till you just said that to me. Yeah and honestly I think that many women probably don't understand that they've been having to do seventeen different things to enable them to do their one. Crass right men don't have that same pressure or responsibility and that is part of the long fight that women are continually having to go on and these these Requirements that it takes a woman to actually be successful is outrageous so the idea for me to get up and speak might hope. Is that one day. You know that that next player. Who retires won't need to have to have that same a skill set that that covers wide range because some people are stagefright. Some people are terrified. Getting some people aren't eloquent. Some people don't like that some people just WanNa play their sport or just comedy. You know and they should do that. So it's GonNa take some more time but It's not lost knew that I was lucky. Able to get on stage and to have confidence on stage and then have a story to tell like have a message. That's that's also kind of important. Yeah I think I think about that in my own job of course because I've lived my job. You know. I know the things that I had to do. That are tangential to my my specialty And I'm and I I like it and I. I think that there are some benefits but I think you pointing out the like of course is true and I think I've probably even said this. But the pressure on women in your field to lake. Explain the job that they're doing as they do it. That's what that's what it feels like in comedy a lot it. Sometimes I get this question a little bit less but I don't know five or ten years ago there was it. Every interview would include. What's it like being a woman in comedy and so it's it is completely it's a? It's just a lot of energy to have to explain what you're doing as you're doing it. I think that's a little bit what you're talking about two and yeah and it's offering rating because you know you spend ten minutes explaining what a woman's place is in Commie or in sport and I might get your wish for the next generation of women athletes and Women Medians Is that? They don't have to waste any time explaining what it's like to be a woman in comedy or woman in sort. They're just an athlete or they're just a comedian. Like let's drop stupid pronouns that people can't understand what freaking human beings. We go through the same stuff we travel. We SACRIFICE WE TRAIN. We blood sweat and tears the exact same so That's kind of my mission over the rest of my life. I've kind of made a new career for myself trying to make sure that the people who come behind me don't struggle in the same way that I did and maybe the same ways to eat it. Was it always soccer for you? Like you're a little kid. What were you playing as a little kid? I was playing anything anything right so I was. I still am a total attention or my wife says that I'm competing with the ten year old ten year old daughter for who gets she's like you're actively trying to get more attention than the child will youngest shower in our family like. I don't know what that means but yeah I was always a great athlete and I think that gave me a sense of confidence a sense of self and an ability that everybody else had so it gave me that. I think that other element that some people have inside of them to kind of continue to pursue that that elusive dream whether playing neyland picks or whatever. Whatever it is. You'RE YOU'RE END DREAM. Gold like the best thing that could ever happen in in in the thing that you love to do and I grew up in. A huge family is the youngest So watching my brothers and sisters play sports you know. I just kind of always had this knowing like I'm going to be able to do that a little bit better than them are. They athletic like today today today. Have Sport Sport Kerr even a even in like high school college sort of thing today. Play sports my sister back actually went to Harvard Basketball Harvard She was one of the number one three point shooters in the country at one point college. that was a very big claim to fame in my family until of course. I went to college in started winning National Championships in my other sister. She offer Xavier University. Oh that's where we went and met no way. No real yeah. My parents went to savoring mother. Have they ever been? What is it called Not Six flags isn't success. Oh Cedar Point I dunno naming places that are in Ohio. I have no. It was like it was a a an amusement park. That had this really crazy. Big Kings Island. Oh sure guess. They've been to kings island. Yeah I went there when I visited my sisters all I remember about the ad came from really athletic family. My brothers played sports all through high school and then kind of went for my dad wants college and never really pursued you on that so I was lucky I was lucky to be involved in a family that was very sports centric and valued for Given that I ended up doing it as a profession. Yeah what about your parents did they? Did they have some natural athleticism or any? I mean I'm imagining like what you would you tell me. Those facts The context that that's giving me that you weren't even like the first woman in your family to have to play college level. That's I mean that's extremely unusual and then especially like in the time when you and I were growing up 'cause like now like I mean this is still true now and it was more true than and this is not a huge gap between now and then in terms of time. But my dad was dad was a super athlete He was really quick fast. I think attracts ends. He football and wrestled but after high school went to go work for his father My my great grandfather and grandfather had like a a a farm San a little farm stand and then it turned into a farm so My Dad took over that business and never got to kind of see. The fruits of his Labor he lived quite vicariously through his daughters which which is so evident in the way that all might my sister Beth and Laura myself were very independent. And we're very strong in. My Dad will take complete credit for that but I have to on us in. Give most of the credit to my mom. You know being a a wife back in the gosh you know back in the late sixties early seventies Shoes a stay at home. Mom raised and raised US Catholic. So she had. She had a unique set of value systems in place and I think one thing that she really broke three from wanted us to break free from. Is this whole idea. That we needed to be reliant on a man Too Happy You know and I think that was something. All of us really took seriously. Mom always told me. Don't you need to make your own money and you need to put yourself friends a position where not serving. Only somebody else Yourself so I learned those real values and I think my sister's Eldest sisters doctor and now actually doesn't practice any. Martin mother of six children and then my next Laura she's she's a teacher so I think my parents did a really good job of raising us and they are not without salt. You know I mean God love them. They did the very very best that they could But I think you know they they really did put inside of US girls Idea of value system our independence not really has been with me throughout my life. Do you know where your mom got the idea like I think about you know her telling you to make your own money or something like that. That's like a radical concept. Yeah she got. Ill Nicholson piss money. Fair Enough Yeah. That's that's very good Causing effects as hard as he did right you can go to work in the morning all. She had seven children to to deal with a lot of a lot of people out there with Sushi work ten times harder because he was dealing little humans running around making a mess of everything so I think that I think that anger probably is a huge marker for her that allows her to to make decisions and allow her to treat us in deterrent dozen. Guide us in kind of a like. Put it in your words rockaway Well this is all like I I mean I can. I can really two ton of the stuff that you're saying you know. I was raised Catholic. my dad. My Dad always wanted to be a singer and then you know he's a lawyer so it's definitely there was a time when I lived in Chicago. And that's where he lives when I used to set up shows where my little sister's also singer and my family would I would throw these like Italian. Themed shows where my family would be backup singers for me. as a and by the way just so you know they love this job and it is very it's a very specific thing Having you know in my case I'll say having like my dad made all these choices to work hard to like further our social standing in like send me to private school things like that like semi to Catholic school to he worked his ass off to like shoveling asphalt put himself through law school so that he could send me to Catholic school which like honestly pretty sure that wasn't worth it And then you know so that then I could like turn around and like live the dream that he never got to live. I mean there's a lot of I have a lot of feelings about this a lot like there so there was so much loss along the way them trying to do right by US. But we have to remember. This is something I have continually come back to you in especially with my relationship with my parents and my mom you know. It wasn't easy coming out to them. It wasn't easy getting them to understand that I was going to do what I wanted to do. Whether or not they believed to be sin or whatever it was like I always have to keep reminding myself that our parents are good people and they were they were doing what they thought was best at that time because we have to remind ourselves at like. It's easy like hindsight is twenty. Twenty right in easy to look back on the history of our lives in all the things that went wrong and point blamed where parents were putting these crazy positions but at the time they were really truly feeling and thinking that That it was the best decision for us now. Could they could go back and cheese things now. Knowing who turned into of course I think that they probably would make different choices but they were assuming the time that we were going to turn into what would be quote unquote your average normal human being right and I think that that is really important for parents out there when they're making certain decisions about how to guide their children who lives is. You always have to remember that your kid could be However small percent it could your kid could be trans- your kid could be by. Your kid could be a homosexual whatever. It is whatever remarks you have to remember as possible so you never want to have to have your children unlearn stuff that you force them to learn as a child. Yeah that's real. I mean when did when when did you did that happen for you. When did you come out here? Folks just General Age Range. I was twenty two told my mom when I took her to a Mexican restaurant because I felt like I gotta do this in public for some reason. Oh I did it the Nordstrom cafe but it wasn't my my mom asked me but anyway. Yes Raboteau Norstrom cafe tuna sandwiches. Keep going on I you know and and I came out with this in the most strong way like me a little bit like I'm just like my personality is like I am basically all or nothing so I wasn't going to late whimper into the conversation I didn't want her to have any reason to doubt what I was saying so I basically said to her mom to tell you something I am a lesbian so you just the strongest word that you can use that makes it you know undeniable to here and she she. She did her very best. At the circumstances I think my mom has had known for a long time But her belief system made it harder for her to hear those words right so she told me a few times like no. You're not no you're not no you're not and you know ten years later. I had to come out again and remind her. I still am lesbian. Doma it was kind of our our our little secret that we didn't share with the rest of the family although I told my brothers and sisters Yeah cool. We've known forever you know so. Yeah that was that was when I was twenty two and then I think maybe when I was twenty nine seven or eight years later. Add to remind her that this was still the case had not change and this was my less when twenty two. What was going on in your in the rest of your life at that. Time like I'm trying to time stamp like were you out of What was what was going on. You just left to enter into the Women's professional soccer league was the it was then called the w essay and there's been a few integration since two thousand three is when I started to get more In invitation supply the national team in two thousand four. Two thousand three two thousand four mostly a main stay on the national team so once the national team stuff started to happen than it was real easy to sweep my sexuality under the rug and not talk about it Because I had this other massive focal point that I continue to relate with my parents around Wow that's really interesting. Yeah I mean if I were to go back in time I would do things differently because you know that was that was also not wanting to actually deal with the relationship that I was trying to cultivate with my parents in. So it's taken you know fifteen or twenty years actually have these hard conversations And you know being brought up Catholic. I was an I've I've just figured this out My struggle was. I felt like at the time I was having to decide between my mom and God or myself And you know up until six months ago. I'm almost thirty nine up until six months ago. I had this revelation like Oh actually God is not separate than me and Got Us not separate? The my mom and God is not church right so I had been feeling like this. This guilt Catholic Hill that were all natives feared an NCO less than shame about about myself. An average is getting really mixed up so. I'm glad that I've heard it's actually allowed. Have a little bit of dealing with my relationship with my mom because she's getting older. I don't WanNa have things that are outside so no for all of your listeners. Having the hard conversations now Will first of all saved conversation for you. Know you're just saving the conversation for later or or worse case scenario won't ever have it You Know God knows what happens after that. So have the hard conversations with your parents or your family now Get them to to see you. Get what you want to say Because you're going to have to stay at eventually get it over with. Yeah I mean as a particular set of circumstances though that to what you're talking about I was a little younger. I was But not much is nineteen but a lot of things were different between what you're describing in my situation. I was still in college. That my folks were helping me pay for and It was Catholic college and so I was still getting messaging. They're on like you. Couldn't you come out you could be kicked out of school So like for me that actually to your point It did sort of force me to have well. I I'll say I'll say this. Sometimes it's just like straight up not safe to have some of these conversations. You're talking about when it's safe yet but you're just making a choice or whatever and I get that. I think because of the specifics of what I'm talking about I did have to have those conversations like very into very Focused way just because Like I wasn't it didn't have any I didn't have this other thing going on or like a job or something else that was pulling me in a different direction. I had to dislike kind of work. It out with them. Over from like nineteen to twenty five is renewing old environment to you. Because you were being. You're asking them for their resources to go to to this crazy college. That's not allowing you to actually be yourself because of their belief system so it's it and I understand every situation very different. Obviously on safety is the number one priority but yeah That's our end I'm glad that you had those conversations. You know yeah I mean I have. I have a lot of compassion for you because like the pressure cooker of all of that. Kind of just. You know you're right like it did like. By the time I was twenty five. I was living back in Chicago and dating a woman that they liked and it was just like okay now we you have to get over this now look it was just it was so it was such a finite amount of time because it was so big and I'm imagining like in your case Yeah that's that's a long time to sort of carry that That like dance that you're doing where because I certainly did that during that time there was a you know. Went home for Thanksgiving and didn't bring my partner because or like brought somebody in. She was my friend like I did that all but it was all just very condensed and I certainly know how stressful that is to try to figure out like sort of who can hear what about your life like who in your life can hear what things about your life that. Komo compartmentalization is It's it's so isolating and And I I just have a lot of compassion for what. I'm assuming you must have been going through at that time. Which is a lot of a lot of like redirecting towards a sucker whatever or that also added a layer of pressure to the whole thing. Because I started to get a little bit more famous my name was a little bit more out there. And so you know my mom at one point just beg me not to come out publicly You know and it's this whole idea of perception. And the way that the outside world perceives your family in the way that I was raised. And how that's GonNa reflect on my parents so I have to hashing for my mom. Also but here's the thing you know it became this pressure cooker and that kind of led me down really difficult path towards the end of my career and a lot of things were kind of coming to a head for me and I was really struggling with alcohol In pills and and so that was the other side of it where I was placating and wanting my mom's security and acceptance while all the while not listening to my own needs And so I went the opposite direction in started making bad choices for my personalized for my personal body And so I think that there is. There has to be the balance of an protected. The there has to be protection in place for you in your cells. That is is long-term. Right as soon as I started to struggle. You know as soon as I actually started struggling and then you know when when it should actually hit the fan I got a Dui like my life changed as I got sober. And I was able to actually have these hard conversations on I was actually able to create boundaries and create a life for myself that felt really good because of my gang. S Not in spite and I think that I needed to get to that point unfortunately I needed to get so low that I just had nothing else but but the requirement of accepting who. I was and accepting of what a life I wanted and then go out and create it so you know as much as I would love to sit here and blame my parents for every little thing that ever went wrong in my life like I am here now. I'm because of them. Some of that struggle though it was hard and though it was very real has allowed me to get stronger in ways that I wouldn't have right and so it's not. It's not all for not right like I understand to everybody's stories different in everybody's Kane is different everybody's reaction to it is different. But for me I want to be the narrator of my story and in order to take control of all the aspects of it and I don't Wanna I don't WanNA blame I don't want to give out any of the power that have been able to curate for myself create for myself so I wanNA take that on myself and he. The strongest daycare can be yes. Be the strongest. Even be one thing that I feel like so often I mean even still now the messaging certainly when I was coming out even still now the messaging of Lake. But why do you have to be out? Or why'd you have to identify Lake you're wearing button downs all the time as like something that's queer or like. Why do you have to tell me about your life? You know like that kind of thing. I still feel like I hear that. I feel like I've heard that the entire time relates to you trying to bottle things up and it I it is. The premise is flawed. Because it's it's not A choice you know. I don't feel like it's a choice not sexuality. I'm specifically talking about whether or not to tell people what's real in your life. I feel like we still kind of talk about that. As if it's like you know Could sh should you come out or should you identify the things in your life that are part of Queer culture or should you Talk about what you like about being gay or anything like that and you know that's a lot coming from like a it's to keep us afraid. Keep US feeling marginalized often but I think another part of it is just like for a long time. I also think we're folks have have accepted that we could do this or that and I. I just feel like for long term health. It's not so much choice and that doesn't mean like you know everyone in your life has to know at this certain time in this certain way It just means that that like I. I don't I don't think it's the best idea for anybody to walk through their life being unknown by the people that they love our expression. I think you're talking about self expression right. And what makes comfortable is when they are able to express themselves in this little box that they live in or insular community that they live in and they see somebody lives across the street. Looks like them talk like them. You drive the same car who their kids go to the same school that is patriarchal system. That has been set up for all the rest of us. People to live by his. Like unknown codes of conduct be silent. Rules that we've been operating under and I think for the most part right people. Just do it like you ride. You drive your car. Rates other road is law. It's understood and we have these invisible codes of conduct culture right that either. Keep us feeling safe or unsafe. And I think that self expression is independent of each other. Every single person has a different reason or desire or way to create Who they are as an identity as a human as a Stanley as its nudity as a country. And what the Patriarch. He wants us to do right. It is they need to keep the people that they are governing and they are in power over afraid of each other so they've created. These boxes needs labels that make it easier to quote unquote understand each other and to connect to each other but actually what they are beers to keep us afraid of each other and to keep us apart because the number one thing for power fewer right. White Man. You're in power to stay in power to keep the people that they are in power over afraid of each other and I think that that's where this whole conversation gets an Fascinating second of all it's not easy An and by the way. There's so many marginalized groups that are being named. You're afraid of each other right. Oh I'm a part of this church so I can't be friends with any any homosexuals or I'm a part of this church I can't And and so my point being is off expression is such a beautiful thing but the culture that we live in is the thing that inhibits people from expressing way off because we might not have actual English words to define who want to deem is because we're multitudes right and so my wife's whether or not we talk about this all the time like we are. We ARE FLUID. Like you know we look at the political system right now and it's gross like obviously. I am not anywhere near pub inside but you actually look at what. Democrats stand for right now. That doesn't feel very enticing. Though I still going to vote for them it just feel ropes and so I've been made to see her not attaching myself to Democratic Party. Each has then all of my rights will go out the window but true this we have to get a little bit more comfortable in attaching ourselves to things that are not finite that are not binary because as we evolve as a species. You're going to find out none of that. Shit fucking matters were has and it never will. It's just a it's a bullshit concept that has been made up by white men to keep the rest of US check. Many conventional deodorants contain aluminum. Which forms of plugging your sweat glands to keep you from sweating? That's the ad copy and that is disgusting to say so if that's actually happening to you if there's a plug in your sweat glands. I've got great news. Native Deodorant is made without aluminum or aluminium. If you're in London specifically I think that's true across the UK. See you can feel better about what you're putting on your body while smelling and feeling fresh all day long no plugs dude of Deodorant is formulated without parabens or Talq. 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Hope offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. Lgbt matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor a safe and private online environment and get help at your own time at your own pace. Anything shares confidential. It's convenient because you can schedule a secure video phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist if for some reason. You're not happy with your counselor. You can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners get ten percent off your first month but the Discount Code Query so when it get started today go to better hope dot com slash query simply followed a questionnaire. Help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better. Help Dot com slash query. Okay can I ask you a follow up question? That's more personal on what you're talking about so I think the way that you present you know the haircut that you have in like the clothes that you wear For small you look awesome. Thank you Second of all you know it's it's still Osceola it's no it's still Like your vibe of I mean what are you? What would you call your haircut? It's like Chen shaved on the sides than there is like a there's with a skunk long. Yeah Yeah You know like that's still an unusual look and it also is like there's people that have been claiming. Erlich wearing or trying on masculinity whatever words WE WANNA use And I'm wondering if that's like always been comfortable for you like having the haircut that you have or like wearing a suit to an awards show or Like a motorcycle jacket. When you're on in front of folks that always been something that felt. Interestingly enough I think that I I'll be super honest like it wasn't I didn't start doing it until I. I actually comfortable in my skin in what that means for me is a stop trying to please people on me outside in started trying to please myself Which is a very foreign concept for a lot of women out there. He had tried to match your insides. The way that you look on the outside is a foreign concept for human beings right. They see somebody wearing what they think they should be wearing an and they tried to replicate it right so so. That's an extra colonel motivator. So I've been doing a lot of work especially over the last. I guess must be nine to ten years Because you know being the Captain Olympic national team for many years I also felt a massive responsibility to not be quote. Unquote stereotypical lesbian. I was GONNA ask amber. What your Harry's to look like you know like the Like the wrap up tape or whatever the heck that's called you like wearing your hair that's like a very Soccer thing and also is like I mean I you know. Of course I play sports too. I didn't play sports. The to the sense that you did the messaging that I got was like okay. Play sports like don't be gay about it and I can't imagine that that stopped as you continue to have more eyeballs on you like if I was getting that messaging in high school. I can't imagine that like suddenly that gets less. I would imagine that would get more well with me as it relates more eyeballs more fame were more. Responsibility Capcom. I just didn't want the rest of the world to think that our entire team was gay. Yeah that was something because I was. I knew that there are millions of kids out there who didn't identify in the same way I did. That would look at the team and see the leading goalscorer needed most famous player on the team and not be able to see themselves in me right. I got that but then you know Megan or Pino came on the scene and all these other young kids who dislike. Didn't really care as much as I did about pleasing everybody else out there And we had enough players that are making name for themselves and as soon as I actually started to accept who I was inside and not trying to please the people on the outside I started to wear whatever the hell I wanted to wear You know living in La for seven years helped with that because I was just in board shorts and sandals the whole time But then you know now my style. Whatever you WANNA call. It has evolved in a way that events for businesses in corporate corporate world in their business. This is the business attire situation. Now like all right. Well I'M GONNA WANNA wear. I wear a nice cool pair of shoes and a nice watch. That's not like excessively dressed up. It's I mean. Certainly there are no rules on. What is a business attire? If you're somebody who is like the kind of casual tired that you and I were. Certainly that is very difficult to figure out difficult to find. You have to. You know the the ideal situation is like that you have the suit made and then like how expensive is that? And how time consuming and all these things super complicated I also. I just want to say that just on the point just on that very small point that you made your thinking like. I don't want everybody to think I don't want people to think everybody on the team is is gay but the the opposite side of that is that we are fine with the idea that that people would think everybody on the team at straight. It makes me feel like I'm so poisoned. We're also poisonous in our own. Shame and guilt of stuff that you know any. Glennon is all the days trying to remind me or or or point out things that don't really ring true that are still of the old thought process of the the patriarchy. And it's like these are things. This is something that is so important. That's why I wrote. This book is because we are NAM to in bleeding. Some of the things we believe like we don't even understand that wearing wearing certain clothes as a kid for me when my mom put me in address to go to church or whatever it was she used to dress me. Intel Brits Clothing of course I wore that shit go ahead. It was absurd and add this metaphor like I felt like I was literally holding my breath till the moment. Unzip IT and get it off of my body you know And did I die? No but maybe like a little bit inside like maybe part e you swallow enough poison. You'RE GONNA get set and I think that that is our culture. I think that a way that we all interact with the outside world. You know we are all drinking in a certain amount of poisonous especially all of the little girls out there. In the messages they see about what it means to be however they identify a woman a man whatever it is you know like we try to point our kids to things that are obnoxiously pager right whether it be like a hooters commercial. We like point to a me. Say What are you guys see? And they said we see a lot of boobs and we see women trying to sell chicken wings and we're like okay water women's bodies for like they're for running and playing and thinking in studying and Mike helping each other like okay. What are they not right so like we are having an also away? Parenting was a perfect excuse to unlearn some of this shit. We've been. Wow that's amazing. I mean you know what that makes sense to me. It makes that that gives me a lot of because I read the because I read. I read the Booker and Wolfpack in You know my my thought was like first of all I was like. Yay absolutely everything. And there's like is so helpful in like right on the money and like you know and then I also and I think maybe part of this is like just because of my job. I read that book and I was like I wonder how much of this is like. I don't know if you've gotten I don't know if you think about Alexis but I often think about the work that I make. It's like literally the work I needed to see an and I didn't see it out there and then like now I'm thirty seven and I make this work in. It's like it's it's it's for you you know it's like for collect the collective view but it's like for the the sad little me and like that is it's like so much hope there because. Oh my God I've I've put myself in the position where he can do that and then I have like I also kind of like sadness and I think that's okay too. You know like sadness for that Little Cami that I'm like. Oh Man kid like I wish you know. I wish. I wish you didn't have to write this book at at the age that I am now a write this Stand UP SET BECAUSE I. I wish that this had existed for you. You know and I don't know if you felt that way at all in writing that like the orange you you become the teacher you wish you had the income the that you wish you had become the backbone that you wish you had enormous at that. That is life right. It gives us perspective that gives us a deeper wisdom and understanding of life. Widely did what we did. And you know a lot of the stuff that I write about on Wolf Pack They really are just basic rules. That we all operate like like every person every woman out there can understand the moment when they were the only woman in the right weather e at work or somewhere else in and they may have something to say the date they felt like this urge to talk but then they looked around and they're like oh I'm the only woman I'm just GonNa stay quiet right or when you finally get the promotion or you get the raise and like the only emotion that you allow yourself to feel as a woman is just grateful right like not like we need to learn that it is okay for a human being regardless of what gender. You are how you identify that when something good happens like be grateful and you also get continue demanding more leisure. What's a freaking birthday? I mean I you know I also say like for Queer folks Also we don't always have to make choices to put ourselves in places where we are in the majority like they're certainly like shows or bars or you know whatever meet up spots that you can assert coffee shop But that situation that you just described as just as much more prevalent for Queer folks because like I mean. I think we're seeing with younger generations. That like the number of people that openly identifies is shifting. But you know sometimes you're you literally are the only person not just in this room late in the office or whatever because of whatever like our geographic isolation Or you might be the only person that's like also a person of color you know or whatever. It is the the Many things that are true for you and identities that you carry that like you know might might continue to pile on recent stew shut up or whatever so I definitely think there's also a lot of clearness in what you're speaking about of course And that is why. I think this book is so revolutionary. Because it can. You can attach yourself. Any marginalized group can attach themselves to all of these these philosophies of thought because you know the end of the day like there are so many people out there that have been persecuted or have suffered because of their Their marginalisation whether it be their flatness or their their clearness or their gender or their sexual whatever it is you have been persecuted from for being person like like. I have to like sometimes actually break it down like think about person as a little bit a little bitty baby baby and like how could you mistreat this? This little baby. How can you? How can they need to this baby? How can you like? That's how that's for me. Whenever I have Reggie moments against certain people in our government I like. I don't WanNa be that anger. I don't WanNa be that ratings right so you know. I want to be given the same respect as I'm requesting from other people and I think empathy is the way through. We have to find ways to build bridges and I know for some people on their lives have taken them in many different ways suffering in pain. But I think that the only way we can go through. This is by reclaiming our power as people and giving each other the same. Kind of power individually And and it's hard building bridges honey otherwise everybody would do it in the world five. Of course I mean I think even just anger you know angers like real difficult to To figure out how to deal with because because there there are you know. There's like small anger and then there's like you know big anger. I mean I I find that myself. Sometimes I'm I'm just in this place right now where I am wondering if everybody gets to have a bridge built to them and that's just so you know that's a real honest place analysis of the place that I'm in we're like I've just really have felt in the last couple of years like I've been working to that end for a long time and now I'm like you have to. You know I have been like putting in a lot of bridge work and so like I really expect like a lot. More Bridge work on your end than that. I think you've been delivering and it's but that doesn't that doesn't You can't control other people so the brave sir. Absolutely also they cross it. But here's the thing like you also have non-negotiable like we're talking about people who cross boundaries that are not acceptable for anybody to come to your island for anybody China Bridge. You're trying to span across to any any person out there right so like your non-negotiables are your your batteries. And you hold onto them And and if somebody can make it across your bridge like more power to them for me thing. I'm certainly not like you're amazing so if like you don't WanNa Come D. and hang out with me on my island like chatter. Yeah Yeah Yeah Fair Enough. Yeah Cool Fair Enough Man. I okay this is. This is a part that I like absolutely want to ask you an. I'm just looking that we have about ten minutes left. So I'm going to redirect the in this area ready. I wonder if people ask you about this. You'll have to tell me okay. Abby like Highest goalscorer of any human ever and international play. True that is true. Yeah okay so we're like like a real like a real goat And you are in your late thirties. You've said how does your body feel. Oh Yeah so. Do people ask you first of all yet. Will they do? Actually because every person on planet Earth thinks I'm the most fit person on earth. No I feel like you used your body like you used your body hard and you're so good and you and you and it was for a long time. Yeah years and I'll give you a little bit of rundown. I retired at the end of two thousand. Fifteen and your listeners. May Not know this about me. Fitness was not my favorite so having to do all of that to stay fit and stay at the top of my game. So many years was literally and figuratively. Just exhausting. I was just so freaking over it. I didn't WanNa do another sprint. I didn't WANNA lift another wait so I didn't for two years. I became very sedentary. I gained some pounds. I will gladly admit that I scared myself in in in the in the bathroom naked a few times. Like what is that on your ass valuate? Where did you come from? And and that was something that I actually spiritually needed. Because like like I was saying earlier like this external and internal motivation and what was once an internal motivation to be the fittest strongest and fastest quickly became an external fear of not making the team and losing my position. Not Scoring many goals. So I've actually been doing over the last six months. I start working out again. Six months ago and I've been working relentlessly on trying to figure out how to internally motivate myself As opposed to this this fear this external motivator that kept me on the T for so many years And that has been really hard but my body really needed a break. I mean I have a a titanium rod in my Shin. I've broken my nose. My orbit toes countless toenails. Loss shoulder issues Tour Ligament in my knee hamstring issues. I mean countless angles brands so my body actually needed to actually govern to a little bit of a hibernation So long story short my body felt like Shit and I I let my body off the hook for a couple of years and I needed that. I really needed like that spiritual disengagement from my actual body and then six months ago I just started running literally like forrest. Gump running just like running not suffering. 'cause for thirty years as a pro athlete. You kinda get comfortable in what we call the red zone which top heart rate zone And that is the period of which your body actually starts to shut down so develop lactic acid and Your your your body down when you get into that red zone not to get too boring and scientific on you when you to the red zone. It's basically like you. WanNa kill yourself in parliament that expression because I know that there are a lot of mental health people out there but that that is essentially what you feel like you you WanNa stop everything and you no longer want to exist And so having thirty long thirty year long career in that perpetual state of always pushing your body to that Max was something that I got over really quick. So I'm just going on these long or scum runs. That's what I'm doing now while well first of all I think I mean maybe you know this but people who didn't have your experience in your career I think we're we're also dealing with the equation that you just spoke about which is like the balance between what are you doing for other people are what are you doing for you know the way you look or what are you doing four to compete in whatever arena versus like what are you doing for yourself specifically as it relates to our bodies so. I think like you've you're SP- your experiences like so specific but you're also like you know not a Weirdo and everybody else around. You could probably relate to this concept of trying to figure out You know what's the stuff that she makes you feel good and I also I also think good on you Because another thing that was happening. You're you're said you're like look in the mirror like what is that. What that was is probably like what you're body kind of should at you know because of how bodies change over time but the kind of career you had your arresting your own development you know. You're you're like freezing yourself in time. And so you know Cigarillo Encino man moment where like waking up and and everything by shing really. Yeah but you know that stuff everything. That's that's happening is like it is You're using your body like a different machine than most people do and I'm really I'm really happy for you that you took some time and space to to figure out how you wanted to use the machine that you have now. Yeah and it's a work in progress. You know like Sherwood Used to be servicing. My Body as you'll be able to go in suffer a now. I haven't made the switch that I'm not supposed to eat so many fuelling calorie straight so beaching my body that I don't require as many calories. I'm not expanding as many calories. I mean you know people wouldn't ever think about me but I really struggled with with food control in it's like oh where does this come from? Like oh the time that it wasn't. I didn't live in a chaotic experience. In my childhood was at the dinner table and so I tried to recreate that experience every single time I e and so I go completely non stop thinking always over consume in that that was fine when I was burning. Three four to five thousand calories a day but now that I'm probably bringing to two thousand dollars a day depending on if I worked out you know these are things that that I'm struggling with. So if you're struggling with three look or the way that you're consuming or or your over consuming you're you're on your phone too much like these are real life things that every person no matter how great you think. I am struggling much. Yes yes friend yes I was a big jock like I mean that's again really different results. I was actually never asked to play for the national team. Much to my surprise I mean I also wasn't good at soccer but You know I was. I was a hardcore athlete at a time. In my life where that meant that I could hide disordered eating in that space where I could Like do an equation. That isn't true for the rest of your life or not his on five thousand teams at once. You're not always a teenager. You're not always Like you don't actually always feel good eating only low fat twist cones for McDonald's So you know yeah you grow up in and you have to constantly reorient and uncover layers and I'm just glad to hear you're doing so much. Solid work. Like congratulations to you. I feel like I feel what you're doing in retirement is like it's I mean it's more than you need to be doing for like the things you've already done but for a person who's GonNa live like the rest of their life as if the rest of their life you know. I'm really happy for you that you're like doing all this work. Well one thing that actually allowed me the space to see a sober life is that my wife's took me aside known each other for ten minutes and She wrote me this email in basically an email she just said look at the world actually needs you and needs you in your highest best. Most efficient cells right and this isn't like a moral thin. It's not like you were bad now. You have to be good. It's like the world needs people like you and actually heard that for the first time like if we actually want things to change and and we want more beauty than we have to actually go out and do it you know and be it and And I that that goes into dislike. Always remember that were continually recreating ourselves every day. Every every week every month every year and it's like children like as soon as you start to get into rhythm your kids like they change like all of a sudden they're different different person in you've got like the Agile and moves so that you can serve them in the best Fossil Winston. The same grace needs to be given to each human being we're always changing and Yeah so I'm I'm still working on it and I'm sure off forever. Well that's a perfect place to leave it and I wanna just ask you before I send you back into your day. Abby Wambach to shout out a queiro. Can You Let our listeners know of a person place or thing that made you feel confident being who you are today? Actually somebody who I've I've just recently met over the last six months whose name is sandy ruled and he is an executive for verizon media I run a leadership program inside of rising media. And he is a queer fellow and somebody who is living kind of an an abnormal lace right in in our minds like in our in our like brainwash minds like gay folks. Don't make it to the C. Suite level right don't to executive level of big corporations in this beautiful man you know he has just been such an inspiration. Such a leader You Know He. He talks the talk and he walks the walk. He's brilliant and he's beautiful and he has really Not only helped me personally. But the way he walks in the world is helping all gay people everywhere and he's not that's not his mission. It's not why he's doing it it just who he is an I really. I really admire him. Look we'll think savvy so awesome talking to you thank you for making. Yeah we had a great time.
S E1: Rewrite the Rules with Abby Wambach, Maysoon Zayid and Bozoma St. John
"The podcast is brought to you by secret strong enough for women Callo, sunshine, alot Sasha. Hello, sunshine. Gotta make while the sunshine. What's this? This is Hello sunshine. What is by sharing our stories? We could change the world. Welcome to Hello, sunshine. Hello everyone. So feel Bush here, and I am very excited to be here with you as the host of and especially you stories for all of us. What happens when we come together to connect in person? I love to create community with women women who liked to roll up their sleeves and get real about the world and ourselves sisters. We are all in this together. And I'm thrilled to introduce you to our new podcast, and especially you. It's a place for all of us to be together this past year, I was part of a group of women from all different backgrounds. Shared stories music. Nick tears and much laughter with audiences across North America. As part of the Hello sunshine by together live tour. Our speakers shared their dreams their heartbreak and their Embiid, and we listened to stories of love and forgiveness and reinvention in this day and age of what feels like growing division. We connected every night was different. And every night was incredible. And I feel so lucky to get to bring some of the stories and experiences to you in this podcast. Our first episode of and especially you is about rules, breaking them and rewriting them. We've got soccer star Abby Wambach comedian may soon. Zayid and businesswoman bozeman Saint John dropping some serious knowledge today. So buckle up my friends. Let's do this. We're gonna kick it off with the amazing Abby Wambach, you know, Abby. Right. She's only one of the greatest soccer players of all time. I by the way, a huge soccer fan. So when I first met Abby a few years ago. I was completely awestruck probably made a fool of myself. And even now that all these years later agian I have been friends for a while. I'm still awestruck. But I think I at least hold it together. She is that amazing of a human being since she retired from her career on the field. She has been fighting the good fight for equality equity and inclusion and she got up on stage with her wife Glennon Doyle to share a little piece of her story. I got this Email early this year, and it was from the president of Barnard college, president biologic, she asked me to come get the medal of distinction, and and do the commencement speech. And I'll have you know, I have yet to graduate from college. So this felt like what could I actually? Offer people who actually graduated from college. So in the invitation, president bylaw talked about how they much appreciate it and loved my time that I spent on the field, but what they actually really admired more. Now is what I was doing after my career in terms of women's rights and equal pay. She called it a watershed moment in these graduates lives. So I had to then Dougal watershed moment. I was so shamed. That like I wouldn't even ask her. So for those of you don't know, it's like a turning point historical moment. And I started thinking about it. And I was like, you know, I think that for me to this could be a watershed moment. I was kind of in a weird place professionally because I had gotten enough distance away from my career and was doing this work and wanting and saying all the time like I want to change the world. But like I just didn't have like a complete direction and a purpose. And I thought you know, what I need to sit down and figure out what I want to say. And then when I looked out into the world, it felt really scary misogyny was running rampant and white supremacy has been out of control since the two thousand sixteen election. I mean for forever, but it's been a very aware. All of us are like, wow, what's happening. So it felt very tenuous than I wanted it to be good. And I I said, yes, I was brave and I said, yes. And then I asked for your help. Yes. Because when you marry like the best speechwriter in the world, you use her whenever you possibly can. For those of you guys don't know were married. So we sat down and thinking about what's going on in the world. I thought okay. Maybe this could be a watershed moment for the world to. And I started thinking about the landscape, you know, where we were in when I thought about the landscape made me think of the wolves in this, Ted talk. I had seen now in nineteen ninety-five. These wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park, and they'd been absent for the seventy previous years at first they hunted the deer and got them out of most of the areas that the deer head eaten away and reduce the vegetation. Now, what was really interesting is that they started to change the behavior of the deer. So these wolves who were once a threat to the actual ecosystem there started to actually make real changes inside the ecosystem once they were reintroduced. The deers were displaced from the valleys. So the vegetation started to grow back trees quintupled inside and just like six years, the beavers moved in and because of that the beavers built dams, so the otters and fish started to come back. Now, what was really amazing about these wolves being reintroduced is that before the river dams where he roading and collapsing because that vegetation, those dear were eating now the wolves come back and those riverbanks get stronger, so the rivers actually started to run an and perform better, the wolves changed the rivers. Are you guys picking up what I'm laying down here? We are the wolves. Women women are threat to our society. Right. But I believe so do I think everybody here believes that. We will also be our society salvation. Okay. So you have this idea that there are old rules that women have been following. And that we need to replace those with new rules to follow who wanna make change. So can you talk to us a little bit about an example of one of those? Right. So I think that it makes a lot of sense. And you understand this a little bit more for the story. So I found myself on a stage. It was the year after I retired SP's. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's a nationally televised sports program. It's basically the Oscars for sports. I found myself on stage next to Kobe and Peyton babe. They played sports. Basketball and football get the ball do the thing. So I found myself on stage next to these guys, and we were all three getting this icon award for entirety of our careers. All three of us were retiring that year, and I was on stage like this and people were cheering. And it was amazing. I was like, wow. This is amazing. I'm so grateful to be here. I'm finally getting recognized look at me, I'm on stage with like other men like we women. We've finally made it right? So that moment comes for me. Just a second. We walk off stage in the applause stops. And we ended up walking off stage. And I remember feeling like this this emotion. I couldn't put put words to. And I saw Kobe and Peyton getting their cars, and we all drove away into three very different retirements. Now, I think you goes can figure out what the massive differences here. They had huge Bank accounts. Right. And I laid in bed that night thinking why like what what is this feeling that? I'm having like what is going on? I was starting to get really angry and pissed. I was like what the hell have I been doing all along. I was the one I was one invited to the table. I was the one seat. Why didn't I speak up more? Why didn't I do more? Of course, we women we pointed to ourselves I like, it's our own damn fault. That's bullshit. And I remember just feeling like oh my gosh. I've been so busy being grateful, but I stopped pushing and challenging to make things better. Because I was scared. I was scared to lose. My my position. I was scared to get benched. I was scared to not be able to pay my mortgage. I was scared to get cut. This is every woman's story. We have to believe that the old rules that all women everywhere have been operating by are gone. Being grateful. Is an old rule. Being grateful and demanding what you want and what you deserve. And what you've earned is the new rule. Out with the old and in with the new, and you know, I feel lucky to have represented my country. I feel lucky to have been a part of basically, the winningest female professional team in the history of court. And we have to actually start figuring out in our own lives. What we think, you know, I feel so lucky to have been able to write this speech with Glennon because she tells me all the time time and time again, we have to sit down and write whether be I mean, I'm a terrible writer, but what this exercise did for me. It made me understand what I knew which made me know what I believed in. I think that every single one of us can do this figure out your own life right down what you know to be true right down things that you think you believe in if they will help us get to a more equal and just world because if not you can start creating old rules and new rules for your own life. So that you can actually travel to a better place. Being grateful is the old rule being grateful and voicing what we need and what we want and what we deserve is the new both. And that is a mantra right there. A while. We're at it. Can we also take a look at rewriting what it means to quote, unquote, be nice? I'm gonna generalize here a little bit. But I do feel like as women were so often raised to be dustbowl to take care of other people to be nurturers to put the needs of other people. I. My experience that's all bundled up under this umbrella of being nice, which so often comes at my own expense. It's been a really hard lesson for me to learn. But I've realized probably through trial and error. Let's be honest. The theories actually, nothing not nice about owning my worth about standing up for myself and about demanding to be treated fairly that feels like basic stuff, doesn't it? But getting to a point where you own those things is hard. So let's take a page out of abbey's. Book goodbye old roles. Our next story is for Mason's. I she's an incredible writer, actress comedian and disability advocate. She makes me laugh so hard, and she is rewritten plenty of rules in her life. So I grew up thinking that we had to be uncomfortable all the time. So I wear the kind of genes that you had to lie down to and then they would like a line into your stomach that would like bubble. And I wore shoes that on comfortable, and I made my pin straight hair big. And then I would sweat and like the hairspray would go into is I v uncomfortable. And so I was really dedicated to living a life where I was completely uncomfortable all times and then one day I put on the last pants like. Wow. This is gay and like now, I shun buttons and zippers in my shoes are Valco mazing. But extended out of my body and to the people around me, and now I refuse to be uncomfortable to make the people around me comfortable. If you need me this sin across from you in a room and believe that your politics is keeping for bigotry, and misogyny, and I shouldn't judge you because that's your politics. I refused to do that. I won't do it anymore. I'm like, you're a bad person. And I need you to do better. So like, I don't allow people to pressure me into silence because they don't wanna feel bad when they are bad people and accents to my career because I was really conscious about like being the only disabled person the room. I never wanted to be high maintenance. So I wouldn't ask people like build stairs on my trailer. Bring me straws 'cause they're like Bannon evil now. And like now now my writer is like super complex like I would like it golden tiger to walk me down the red carpet. I made them build me an elevator Australia. I was like just do it. And so I don't have any shame any more about asking for help. I do it loudly. And probably because I understand that. There's no shame and saying I can't do this without your help. And so I just won't be uncomfortable anymore. Yes. Yes. To elastic pans and yes to being as comfortable as possible and one thousand times over yes. To may soon. Refusal to sacrifice her comfort in order to make others feel comfortable. Okay. So before we wrap up today, we've got one more story from bozeman Saint John those is a force. She's been disrupting the status quo and fighting for diversity and inclusion at the highest levels for apple Uber, and now endeavor she's been a bad ass. Probably since the moment, she was born. But that doesn't mean it's all been easy. Bose is such an incredible example of a woman who proves that strength comes in many forms both in her bat assery, and in her incredible vulnerability her willingness to let us in and talk about her personal rules is something I am so excited to share with all of you. There was a time in my life. When. I thought I had a lot of time. You know, where I thought that the five year plan could work or the ten year plan or I'll do that some other time. My husband was diagnosed with cancer in may of twenty thirteen and he died in December of that year. It obviously changed my perspective of time. One hundred percent in the years following have become urgent wanting to do things right now not waiting making. Sure that if I have a goal about something that I'd do it can't be the the small things about you know, like, I gotta finish that pint of ice cream tonight. Because if I don't it won't be here tomorrow. Or has been about my own happiness in a job. And being like, I am not happy here. I'm leaving today. But then I feel like maybe in the last year or so I've become. Maybe more complacent again about the urgency and then yesterday. My friend died. Her name was Kim porter. And was. Years. Was a really beautiful woman who has left or children. The youngest are twin girls. And she was planning on coming to gun with me next month. Now, she's gone. We don't know what tomorrow brings we really don't Kim was an ill with my husband where we knew something was coming. She was fine three days ago. We were arguing about whether or not her son Christian should have a room with his girlfriend in a hotel in Ghana now. It's like, yeah. Let them in live. You know? And today, I was looking at those emails, and I was like damn it. So I am for Kim and for Peter and for myself. Going to live my life urgently everyday. Live life Kerr gently. Wow. Yes, I promised to do that to bows and honor both Kim and your husband. Thank you for sharing that. Wow. I am loving these rules. We've been rewriting and relearning I realized that in the past I've tended to think of rules as confining, but these rules one be grateful and demand what you deserve. Both aunt to refuse to be uncomfortable and three live life urgently post rules, actually, feel expansive isn't that interesting? I'm feeling inspired and emboldened prayer, which is just where I want all of us to be next week when we'll get into speaking truth to power with lovey, people assume folks, like me who are known as true tells who known as the honest folks just do it without thinking about it without thinking twice without consequence. We just do it. No. Join a scary. Every time you won't want to miss it. Now that you've heard, and especially you visit us on all the socials at Hello sunshine, and at together live events, I'm at Sophia Bush, if you want to say Hello and make sure to rate and review our podcasts wherever you, listen and hopes new people find our show in here these stories on this episode of and especially you you heard from Abby Wambach may soon. Zayid those must Saint John and me, I'm so Bush, and I can't wait to break more rules with all of you. And especially you is a production of Hello, sunshine. Together. Live our podcast producer is Sarah. Pellegrini. Those must Saint John was recorded live at Wilton arts center in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Thank you to our sponsors secret, WalMart and Jackson financial.
Play, with Abby Wambach, Nora McInerny, and Shantell Martin
"Hello sunshine. Hello. Central gotta make hay while the sunshine. What's this? This is Hello. Sunshine. What is by sharing our stories? We could change the world. Welcome to Hello sunshine. I'm Diane Guerrero and this is how it is where women tell their own stories in their own words, were unfiltered real and totally ourselves. Today, we find out how play can transform our lives and how we can all be a little more playful, your crane. The. To be. We deserve to be. Remember when you were a kid and playing was just the most important thing in the world instead of awkward adult dates, you got to have play dates where all you did was go to the playground and do arts and crafts or play. Make believe those were the days when I was a kid. I used to spend hours outside playing, hide, and go seek rollerblading rollerskating anything in the had wheels I would wanna be on. It was so fun discovering new things about yourself and you couldn't wait to wake up for the next day. He play some more. We have some incredible women here today, and I can't wait for you to hear from artists shantelle Martin writer, Nora mcenery, and soccer star Abby Wambach. Our first storyteller today never stopped playing shantelle. Martin is an artist, even if you don't know her name, you've seen her black and white drawings. She's collaborated with everyone from Kendrick, Lamar and Google creative lab to clothing brands. I've Puma and maxmara an all because she never quit playing. Shantelle is one of those women who managed to turn her own play into a career and get paid for it as an actress. This is something I can totally relate to. I'm playing pretend for real, but it's a tricky balance for creative people because where do you draw the line, get it draw the line. I'm punny, but seriously, what does it mean to play when you're play becomes work. When I think about play, it's funny instantly I think about what because I think the two for me, so into woven, I draw as a career, you know, I travel around the world. I mean, really amazing people. I collaborate with these people. I work on really amazing projects, and I do that with this pool of a pen or a marker or pencil. And to me, that's kind of the pit of play. It's it's something that I'm passionate about something that we will do as kids not truly something that I've always continued to do throughout my life. And you know, I'm very fortunate enough that that's turned into my work and and if play isn't an essential Paul, if your work life or your day, you know, that's also okay. But you need to find us space. You need to find that balance. It's interesting. I also know the vow does, you know, can you drool? And they'll say no control. And I said, well, that's absurd because you know, you drew as a two year old as a free year old is a full. Oh, five, six, seven, eight. Maybe even a nine ten year old. Of course you can draw. You can do something as a full grown Addo that you could do as a little child. But I do remember the first time where I was drawing an wasn't what in my mom was drawing. So my mom drew a picture of Al dog tummy at the time, and I remember just being kind of dumbfounded the also. Wow. The dog that she just drew looks like out dog. That's magic. That's amazing. Some real gift there or sorcery, and then I tried to do it and realize I couldn't, and I remember Finn in so discouraged the there was this tool or this practice or this activity that was excessive to me and that had been doing it, but somehow I couldn't tap into it in the way that my mom did, and I think that's really kind of special stage within all children's lives. You know, there's this moment where your house or your dog or the the person doesn't that like the teach house or it doesn't let your parents house and it doesn't it like how they've told you to drawer or how they've kind of been teach you to draw. And there's this my way you start to believe that you con and they can drawing is away the, you know, regardless of being an autism, no into way that we get to extract ourselves and put ourselves on on paper. It's a way that we get to experience something really personal between now head now hand and that practice or that exercise is so beneficial yet we take it away from from people at such a young age. We'll try to find out south. We're trying to seek how south and and this is something that we naturally do as children. So why would you not do that as an adult? You know, as children, we do it quite naturally because it is a Paul play and is a Paul of games in the playground, and it is a of what we do kind of every day is kids. And then you know, suddenly we grow up in it, we'll has to be serious and it has to be about work and it has to be about where we're from. Now, if I was to ask you who all you and you to answer without same what you do, where you're from and the roles that you play in life, how would you on sir? And it doesn't matter how educated you are, how smart you all? How traveled you all how old you off as adults. We all struggle to onto this question of who we are at the coal as people because we all so cool up with where we're from. We also cool up of what we do. We also cool up with the roles that we play life because those are now the labels that we carry. Whereas if you are children, they know who they are because they play every day, they all themselves every day they, they're on this with themselves every day. They haven't applied those labels yet to themselves of of kind of roles or jobs that they play in life, and. And so it seems bizarre that you would stop doing that as adults because you know, isn't that the whole point of her on this planet is to figure out who we all the cool, and you know, it seems. To be a shame to kind of go through life and then pass away only really knowing what we've done, where we're from. I'm Shanto Maltin autism question Finca connector collaborator. I'm someone that is just trying to figure out life fruit drawer in and fruit playing and Fru experiencing. It is so powerful and it's kind of realize just now why I get so uncomfortable when people ask me what I do, it's so impersonal, it's what do you do? What do you have? What you have to give instead of asking? Who are you? What are you? Love? How how do you laugh? What makes you happy? Can we all make a pledge together right now the next time we're out of party and we meet someone new. Let's promise not to ask them what they do or where they're from, instead do something, playful us what makes them laugh. Hey, I'm Diane nice to meet you. What makes you laugh? See, that's making me laugh right now. I would l- I love that it might. It might seem weird at first, but trust me, we ask everyone who comes to the show that question and sometimes their answers like Our Lady, Nora mcenery is are just too good. Honestly, people falling usually usually when I honestly, when I fall or anything, embarrassing happens to me, I really truly enjoy it. The other day I was walking really quickly into a target and the automatic doors were not ready for the speed at which I travel, and I just walked right into them. There is not an I laughed so hard even thinking about it now. Even thinking now it's so great. A word from our sponsor. We're going to talk about boobs for a second here boobs and knowing how to deal with them are a real lifelong journey. For us. Ladies trust me. I am practically abroad. Allah gist. What I'm looking for is fit, look, comfort and perkiness, oh, and price. 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Thanks for asking a podcast that favors real talk over small talk when she had a miscarriage and lost both her father and her husband, Aaron all in span of weeks. She chronicled at all. I on a blog and later in her book, it's okay to laugh. Crying is cool too. Through it all. She was taking care of her toddler, son, Ralph and like any new parents, Nora, and Aaron just wanted to be silly with their son. So Nora had no choice, but to set her grief aside and just play, which turned out to be a really good thing. Right from the beginning. Ralph was born into a house in into a family and enjoy a whole situation where the world was never going to revolve around him where his dad was sick. His dad had stage for brain cancer, and it's almost as if this child entered the world and knew that there was something bigger going on, there's something big going on and he was a part of it, but he wasn't. He wasn't everything. And and part of me does feel almost guilty for that, but really feel like we're giving him a gift that he. Will realize when he's older, like all the best gifts and you know, Aaron was sick. You is such a good dad. We had Ralph knowing that Aaron's life was not going to be a long one. We didn't know if he would be there for Ralph's first day of kindergarten, nor for offs graduation or for Ralph's wedding. We had a feeling he wouldn't be, but we went into it with, you know, all the best intentions and really having Ralph with Aaron was an exercise in just appreciating where we were. And when I look at the beginning of my first child's life, I had a newborn baby who are so needy horses walk after like two hours by the way and babies are like, I can't do anything for like ever. And I had a brand new baby. I had a husband who had just had a recurrence of his of his. Brain tumor who had just had another brain surgery who was now doing a whole new really intense invasive chemo. That meant that he would spend three days in the hospital away from us every month and that listing that out now I think, oh God it so much. But I mean, they had to be hard. I know that they were hard, but there are also the happiest days of my life, and I can truly say that I can truly say that changing Ralph on like a dirty chair in the college center that like I don't know how many butts of sat on this while Aaron gets his infusion. And we watch, you know, arrested development on errands, laptop that was the happiest. I've. I've been in like my entire life and no matter how Garin was, and he was so sick. They did this kind of chemo where when he got it, he would have to. You'd have to share his home body, you'd have to shave the whole buddy at a beard. You'd have to shave it off. And when you're a man who's worn a beard for a long time, shaving your beard off is so shocking. It disgusts your wife like, oh my God. You look like a giant sixteen year old. Some new like shave half of his body at half of his face and come out just for the reaction. It was always so funny like Ralph, you still laugh at Aaron, like Erin, did anything. I remember when Ralph 'as really tiny and Aaron wrapped him up in swaddled and then held him up to me and Ralph's eiser open. He's so alert. He's like a little infant and starts eating him like accord on the cob, but like a cartoon corn on the cover you eat at like a typewriter. And then dating back to the beginning like ding. He used to it when Ralph was her up China's Waddell, hold him like a good tar and pretend to strum him. Strom hard like he was definitely right. He wasn't playing like James Taylor. He was his playing some other. I've, I don't know the names minivan. So some cool band. I don't know you just so funny, like our life was truly like those kinds of moments of of joy, even though like you're just sort of walking the plank, but you don't look at the plank you look at at the person who's walking with you. Aaron and I wrote his obituary together on November. Eleventh. I remember it because Iran had been not doing well, and he had not been doing well for a long time. And he started to have seizures and I'd never seen him have one he'd had to. It had the one that you know helps has find his diagnosis. He had a seizure at work, and then I started having them at home in those kept happening. And I called the that had called his doctor and sector said, you know, just go go to the ER tomorrow and and they'll they'll check it out and brought him to the ER and. The people who opened the curtain where one, the hottest doctor I've ever seen worked in the ER. It was like a living KENDALL. It made no sense. I'm actually uncomfortable around men that good looking. I don't even like like them. I just want to slap them or something I didn't, but so the hot doctor came in and then the curtain opens in it's errands, nurse practitioner from the college department, and it's his social worker, and they are lovely women. Do you want to see them at the same time? No, you don't. And they explain to Aaron that there wasn't any more treatment to do that the tumor is back. Obviously, that's why he'd been having all those seizures and who's growing really quickly, and that they just wanted him to have a good quality of life and they're really good at making it sound like it's your choice and I remember Aaron going, well, I don't want to die, but if you're telling me I have to do and we were like laughing and crying and. We went and got pancakes. And then we went home and we wrote as of way. Per more Aaron. Joseph aged thirty five died peacefully at home on November twenty. Fifth after complications from radioactive spider bite that led to years of crimefighting and a years long battle with the nefarious criminal named cancer who has plagued our society for far too long civilians will recognize him best as Spiderman and thank him for his many years of service protecting our city. His family knew him only as a kind and mild mannered, art, director designer of websites and t shirts and concert. Posters who always had the right card again and the right thing to say, even if it was wildly inappropriate, Aaron was known for his long entertaining stories, which he loved to repeat often in high school. He was in the band, the asparagus children, which reached critical acclaim in the northern suburbs as an adult. He graduated from the college visual arts, which also died an untimely death recently and worked in several agencies around Minneapolis settling in as an interactive associate, creative director. Coma Klay, Aaron was a comic book aficionado pop culture encyclopedia, and always the most fun person at any party. His survived by his parents, his sisters, his first wife, Gwen Stafani, current wife, Nora, and their son Ralph who will grow up to avenge his father's untimely death. So I don't really know how to tell you how to find playfulness. In those moments. I can tell you that it's probably already. They're like the people who are listening to this who are going through something hard. We're going through the worst thing in their life. Verdi know that it's possible to find joy. They already know because they already feel it because feeling that deep of despair opens you up to the depth of like every emotion. It's like feeling in high definition, the good things and the bad thing. So the people who need to be told that are the people who haven't suffered yet. So that's who this is for is for people who have not been through it yet. You will like, literally everyone you love is gonna die. So look forward to that, but you'll have the hardest thing in your life happen. And within that. That awful terrible, horrible situation. There will be these moments of joy in won't make it better and it won't make it worth it, but they'll be there. I mean, I had I had a blog during this time when I look back at the writing on it, I think, wow, this is really pointed his truly trying to like, tell people how to interact with us because even if something sad happens to you in this is really the basis of like all the work that I want to do in the world. Like you are not your sad story and that you can be going through something really difficult. It can be the hardest thing you are going through and you can hate every minute of it, and you can still find something to laugh about. Norah story is so inspiring to me. We all have our traumas including me, but I have to find time for lightness to we are complex beings with more than just one emotion and the Mark of a high functioning woman is being able to be many things at once and let's face it ladies sometimes functioning in this life is more than enough. A word from our sponsor. I'm not gonna lie. I've been known to dress up. I love to dress up. I think that's part of why I became an actor other than to tell stories is to dress up, and sometimes I need a little inspiration, what's going to fit my mood? I checked out, stitch fix dot com. And it's very cool. It's exciting to see what they might send me like that Jean preppy blue blazer realness, yes. Police stitch fix is an online personal styling service that fines and delivers clothes, shoes and accessories to fit your body budget and lifestyle. Just go be boop to stitch fix dot com slash how it is and tell them you're sizes was styles you like, and how much you want to spend on each item. The questions they ask are fun and surprising and might help you get to know yourself. You're paired with your very own personal stylist who will hand pick items to send right to your door, then you can try them on pay own. Only for what you love and return. The rest shipping exchanges and returns are always free. There's no subscription required. You can sign up to receive scheduled shipments or get your fix. Whenever you want get started. Now at stitch, fix dot com slash how it is, and you'll get an extra twenty five percent off when you keep all items in your box that stitch fix dot com. Slash how it is to get started today, stitch fix dot com. Slash how it is. Our final storyteller today is one of the greatest soccer players of all time. Do I even have to introduce her because you already knew who she is. That's right. Abby Wambach. She's won two Olympic gold. Medals. She's been named fearful world player of the year, and she's a six time winner of the US soccer athlete of the year award, and she is the all time leading goal scorer in international soccer history. So it's safe to say, Abby is an expert on playing as part of a team. I'm not a professional athlete, obviously, but teamwork is a big part of my life, but sometimes I wonder how I can be competitive while still being a good teammate as women. We are always told to play nice. Should we listen? How can we have fun when the pressure's on maybe the solution is to redefine what it means to play. Abby is going to break it down for us being the seven. I think I've have felt like I've been on a team for my whole life from the time that I probably could stand up. I was trying to get involved in some kind of sport. I'm watching my brothers and sisters play and not being able to walk yet and maybe not being able to run yet. I was able to to kind of observe them. And because of that, it gave me kind of this desire like, oh, I'm going to show them. I'm going to. I'm going to be better than them one day. You know jumping off the diving board at at two years old. In writing down the driveway on a on a two wheel bicycle. I had never ridden a bike before, but I just had seen my brothers and sisters do it. So many times that I just I saw it. So I wanted to do it my first three soccer games. I actually ended up scoring twenty seven goals. From that perspective, you know, my parents were a little bit shocked and odd that I was able to do that. And that was my first experience at being in a team other than my family. And I remember after those twenty seven goals, my mom had said to me abbey, you know, why? Why don't you pass the ball more because she was worried about me like being that stereotypical best player on the team who just doesn't pass and isn't really liked by by their teammates. And I and I said something and this is this is proof that you can learn to become a good leader. I said, well, the whole point of playing soccer is scoring more goals in the other team. And if I can do that better than anybody, I don't see what the problem is. My mom laughed and she said, okay, we're going to have a little bit of work to do here. So the truth about being on a team is that there is no perfect team, no, no championship team. I've ever been on runs one hundred percent smoothly gone. Honor the days where there's a thorn -tarian coach or a few leaders on the team that can make things happen because they tell their rookies or the role players of the younger players. What to do, you have to actually incorporate everybody's skill set. It's not easy to get a collective group of people on the same page or beating as one as this one collective heartbeat. It's actually the most difficult thing. If it were easy than every team would win every every time that they stepped on the pitch or field or in the boardroom or whatever we're talking about, it is so hard to manage human beings. It takes extreme effort. It takes extreme love and it takes extreme surrendering. I think that the times that my teams have won championships, we were able to get for the most part, all of the players beating as one, many people think when they look at the women's national team, oh gosh, they're all best friends and that's why they win. And for the most part, we are friends, you know, but there there are moments that we have to have hard conversations. And we have to get on each other because at the end of the day, championship mindset and elite athlete mindset is about completing the goal and getting to a final and winning that final. For instance, when I was playing in two thousand fifteen, my coach and I, we decided and the coaching staff decided that I would help my team better coming off the bench and for a veteran, a player who had played, you know, over a decade as the leading goal scorer and the player who played many, many minutes almost every game almost every minute of every championship. I had an opportunity there to become an individual and sulk and complain and be upset by this decision. But my own personal feelings didn't matter as much as winning did. And the only way you can actually accomplish big goals, big dreams championships, whatever it might be. You have to. Collectively figure out a way to get on the same page and respect each other. Winning is defined differently by every person and every team in every business. And these are really important questions to discuss with the collective so that we all know what our heart is trending too, and trying to beat towards. Right. So for our national team winning was not just about standing at the top podium getting gold medals wrapped around our necks. You know, we wanted to win with honor. We wanted to win with class winning also can mean at times losing right? Because the biggest lessons in our lives are done when we lose or we fail are we don't accomplish our goal. So maybe our future self, right? Maybe we have to go through and experience some of that pain. Some of that failure in order to win in the end in the long run, you know, we're all playing a long game here, but to many of us are trying to sprint through our life. And we can't expect, especially women. Women have the standard of excellence of perfection because there's fewer women in the workplace. There's fewer women even in professional sports. And so our standards in the history of of human history are so high that we don't believe that we're given any grace in the failure. But in fact, I have experienced the opposite that the times that I have failed the most times that I have not quote unquote one even by the standards that we set as a team. I know that those moments, those failures are the things that turned me and my life into beautiful moments. I love sport, right? And I love competition. And I think because of that, I have found a way to make play and put play in in the most unplayable like things like doing errands with my wife. You know, I'll be dancing in the car or I'll be, I'll be dancing in the line at target or or something like that. So it's not hard for me to get into a playful mindset and because I played sport for so long and I played soccer for so long. I felt like I killed so many birds with one stone. I was able to play a sport. I was able to earn money as able to stay fit. I was able to travel the world. I was able to hang out with my friends basically all day. And so I tried to replicate that that lifestyle having having retired a couple years ago. I tried to do that in my in my daily life. Now. I am Abby Wambach former US national team player and the dreamer of changing the world. Okay. Let me just say it. We're all thinking it. Abby is goals, whereas my cousins might say. Now after listening to these three incredible women, I am fired up and ready to play. I know you are to grab a pen and paper draw something. Yes, you can turn of your favorite re re song and dance with your kids. Find a soccer ball and do your best Abby impression or just remember that thing that you love to do when you were young? I'm gonna go run out and create a dodgeball league that I'm never going to attend. Even if you don't think you have time give it to yourself. And speaking of next week's episode is all about that very subject time and how learning how to value our time is one of the most powerful things women can do. Like when I stopped everything to go eat that taco and get a manicure yesterday. Yup, I cherish that time and no, I am not kidding that taco was tasty. Af in all seriousness, the older and busier. I get the more value my time. And so should you? So I am very excited for you to hear what next week storytellers have to say on the topic. Did we mention Maria. Menounos was going to be on the show, telling us about how she learned her greatest secret about time. The secret was that this batter. Ars. Damp of fixing. On this episode of, how does you heard from shantelle Martin nor mcenery an Abby Wambach. I'm Diane Gaveto and I'm a bad as Queen protector of Justice, daughter of immigrants, change maker and human lover. How it is is a production of Hello sunshine. It is exact produced by Amy s. Choi, Charlotte co, Rebecca layer and Reese Weatherspoon our senior producers are Jillian Ferguson and CARA heart. Our development producer is Mary Phillips. Sandy sound designed by Jocelyn Gonzales. Our theme song Queen is written and performed by Victoria. Say it again? Say it again.
Glennon Doyle + Abby Wambach
"What's up everybody welcome back to couple thing Sean and Andrew a podcast all about couples the things they go through today. I am truly truly fan girling when I received the message on instagram when they replied yes. We'll tell you who they are in again. I ran lobster on house. I couldn't breathe I thought I was living. In a daydream when I tell you this John was. In giddy with excitement. I'm not lying today we sit down with Glennon doyle and Abby Wambach to legends in their own right and power couple together Abby Wambach I mean two time Olympic gold medalist, literally the goat and soccer I mean the greatest really known as the best soccer player of all time two time Olympic gold medalist. She's also a New York Times bestselling author as is her counterpart, her wife Glennon Doyle who has written books like love warrior untamed. Yes. We will link the information for that. Glennon is making a massive name for herself in the untamed world preaching this. Concept of being untamed being true to yourself. She is in the reading circles, OPRAH? Race Witherspoon Creston Mel I mean everybody. She's amazing. What's right. So this was the conversation that I think we put the most thought into. We had the most fun with and it was also the most challenging in a lot of waste. So here's a deal Glennon story is this she was in traditional marriage had several kids divorced met abby and married. Abby and so she has caught a lot of slack from dissenters but also has gained Colt liked devotion others, and here's our stance I think whether you are blindly in love with somebody or disagree adamantly with somebody for whatever the reason it's important to still be able to have a respectful conversation still be able to be thoughtful. So be able to listen in Glean things that you do like and you don't like and so. I enjoyed today because it's so much good things to say and tell you from fathers perspective that I want to be like them and so many different ways. Yes. I. It was the greatest conversation of all time I. This conversation of all time. How. Funny. I Love Them I want to be the best friends I just. Like you said, especially, now being mom to drew, these are two most powerful women in today's world. They are not afraid to be who they are. They stick up for everyone else they such a strong voice I truly I love everything they stand for and they are activists there they they profess to be activists they're known as activists and again no matter if you agree with them on what they're activists about or disagree with them on what they're about, still listen to the conversation be thoughtful about it. And take what you can from it. So that's why we're excited to have this conversation with you were excited to hear your feedback if you haven't please subscribe this show and raid it. Love to hear your criticisms your praise, whatever it is. Also today's Day because yesterday abby came out with the children's version of Her New York Times bestselling book called, Wolf. Pack. We will link the information for that down below, but let's go ahead and roll newest one with and. Abby. Glen and Abby thank you so much for joining US I. Just WanNa start off by saying I feel wildly under accomplished compared to you. Three amazing woman. It's it's an honor to be sitting in all of your presences to be honest. So Thank you for joining US l.. Eight year, win. To be here with you to. For this. So I. Don't know if know, but we just had a daughter not too long ago and I look at you three women and you're exactly what I want drew to be like with ambition and bravery and all the amazing things you guys have done and you haven't been scared to do it. It's been fun though coming from a pretty conservative Christian background my parents, Sean I. I got married. We're kind of hesitant because our arrangement was a little nontraditional in the sense that like my whole life then, and now is all about supporting Sean and like her ambitions, which is not the stat the normal conservative Christian backer I'm curious have have you ever? In ever told, you have a nontraditional marriage. Yeah I've had all I. Mean I was married to a man first marriage was. A little bit more traditional I think. Quite Conservative. Christian era. Much of your your first marriage. Yeah. I grew up Catholic we both grew up Catholic. And and then I was a real berry involved in a in Giang Church for a very long time. and was a Sunday schoolteacher. About a year ago and I. Didn't was able to do it anymore but yeah I definitely have also been told at our arrangement is Nontraditional. Yes. And you know twenty because for the most of my career on any partner that I have had has a much ways kind of that support system night Yutaka in. It's really cool now to be married Glennon because we are both independently. Successful, we'd be our own businesses, but with this untamed book and the success of that it's been. Really Beautiful. An amazing experience. You guys understand now being parents how? When you're so focused on yourself and your crash on, I know you understand with this is it's like it it is one of the. Endeavors and then to be taken away out side of that, retired to focus my energy on our family and Glennon released on. TAME. It's been beautiful to see it from this perspective. So I have kind of the ability in perspective that I've been in both physicians but yeah, traditional upbringing. I call myself kinda recovering tablet because you can imagine what it would feel like to be a little gay kids sitting in the Pew next to your mom and your family and wondering I'm what abomination means and wondering what all these big words mean bet essentially my being mice humanness meant that I was going to hell so. I've been fighting that quite a bit. But yeah, I I love the support system I love being in support services somebody else it's really I think what? You're. and. I think for us it's What I found works for us is that there's not. I used to have this idea of. So in every relationship, there's the kite in there's the kite holder. A. So there's like the one who's just like out there doing the same thing flying high and whatever, and then there's the one who's just like holding them study right and boker equally important and. The actually think that that works in the long run you know because inevitably the kite holder is getting sick of being the kite holder end, the kite is going to need to rest. And so I I love what we have which is that it's it's always a back and forth like the last year has definitely been you've been the hydrocare. and. Then the year before that Abbes Wolf pack book release in that was I was the title older than. And I'm sure you're from now it'll add I. Don't know I just think it's super important to both people have their time to be the support. That each has the time to be disappointed. I'm trying to figure out was that a tease for Abbey's next book maybe was that you know alternating years life gas. Being the Damn Kite. Your. It's true. That's true. Yes yes. Something, I absolutely love about the couples that we get to interview as it was one of our missions when we started it is I got so tired of how people. Put relationships into a box. They say, if you don't do this and if you don't follow these guidelines, then your marriage or your relationship is going to fail. And it's been cool to interview different couples who have gone through some very. Hard things and tragic things and they've had affairs or they've had I mean there's been. All these different stories we've heard where people have said you know what? I don't care what the world tells me to do. Now I'm GonNa go do my own thing. We're GONNA make work and I, think it's just really cool. To hear your story I told Andrew that. I don't know how I worded it but it was basically like you guys are my favorite favorite couple and the entire world to follow on social media. I di- overt Glennon you drinking obvious smoothies and just all these chronicles. It makes my day. But one of my favorite things that you guys do is you you show your relationship to the world it seems so quote unquote normal. But yet you're doing your own thing and you're showing so many people in the world that. The box that they've defined is completely wrong. And I just think it's a really powerful thing how you geyser. kind of living out your marriage and your own way and yeah, it's perfectly right. Is there is there a lot of resistance that you me on a day-to-day basis? To Way Yes but there's so many areas. A category. Resistant. Okay. Well so I think in in the you guys are both I think in your instagram. BIOS, activists for a lot of different things. Is there a lot of resistance for the things that you were activists for? Yeah, all of it yeah, no I mean I am A. Fierce feminist in LGBTQ. anti-racism activists inside of. Christianity. Which? Begins Problems. Customer to be that. Everybody. Agrees with me and feel good about me general. Yeah. I think so but also. You know. So much understanding and beauty and. I think that when we are really truly who we are out loud were not gonNA fit in any category I think that you can be sure that you're not. Being true yourself when you do neatly fit inside of the category with no one's ever. You know annoyed with you. With ever rocking the bowl. In. That doesn't have to be in terms of activism. You terms of family I. Mean we all know that you know some of the hardest boxes to break out over the ones in leave. So? Yeah. I. Think just added that I think that one of the most important things that we learned early on when butter knife I met. We, actually spoke to a lot of really amazing thinkers people who? Were close to US personally and also. Kind of famous in the world and one of the things that one woman said to ask you just have to love each other we were so worried about. What. What people would say she has children I. Come from this Christian Catholic background got a whole bunch of shame wrapped up in that and for us you know the reason activists is not to to change everybody's mind though that would be great. We don't believe that we can change everybody's mind but we try to do is educate people and as it goes in any kind of nontraditional relationship and what we're saying. Is a non wait a non straight relationship like that's what traditional means you know anything on margins on and I think because we are in gay marriage, we want to just be out loud and show all the things that happen that also happened in every other relationships in the world because. For US feels like the great equalizer that's like other than getting on a soapbox say, yes, we are gay and we are the same. No show. Glennon. Stealing might food and again shays. Begin the cabin doors open and need scaring her like we're just the same as as anybody out and. The only way you can sometimes show that is just Literally. Put somebody in your house will. So I do think it's so important to. Kind of. A half conversations, but I think the best way to have a conversation is to find similarities and abby when I look at your instagram. It's like it's like pretty much parallel to mine where like you're you're. Showing your spouse and all the annoying fine things that they do. and. So I think that I think to your point, there's so much power. In that I interrupted you. Say the reliability factor. I feel like again, going back to this box that people try to paint which never works or works for some people. But like you said Glennon, they're probably not being true to who they are in some fashion or in some way but the related ability factor when people watch you and they're like Oh. Yeah I do that my spouse does that my boyfriend, my girlfriend my what does that they start relating to a relationship and a like a form of love that is truly undeniable. And I feel like that's where it's. There's no argument. England, you said in your book that they don't have to understand me to love me I. Think and I think that that's an important thing where like a we all each of us has so many similarities. We have we also have plenty of differences, but we don't necessarily have to understand those differences to appreciate. Appreciate each other. I did feel the the drinking the milk shake abby. Not, my soul. Never, understand just to speak to relativity because I think that that's a way for people to feel safe. and I know from coming from the family that I'm in. It's like if you are like us in any way come on in and we can have a conversation rock around that one little thing. And I think that that's why Glennon are in I have. Such a reach because you know from from what it looks like I appear to be more masculine she appears sued more feminine but there are certain things. I'm so much more than she is about vice versa, and so there's this kind of confusion developing. That's also relevant inside of cases of the relativity that people can hold onto and I think what that shows is that no matter who you are if you are identified as a man or woman or anywhere in between it feels to me like human beings can relate in in some way in one way and like let us look for those relativity points rather the voice of points. In American family the way our family is so different. You know we are are people who were taught that. Divorce is the worst. A divorce is failure right. What you need to avoid is a broken family and what a broken family is is a divorce. and. So I stated marriage we both stated manages for probably are too long that. In what we would I realize when day was like? Oh Am I sure that that that the definition the world has given me a broken family is right because actually I see a lot of my friends out there in marriages where they are slowly dying in their children are not being served. In Emily seem really broken. And I see other family smoked married, right? Yeah. There's on this original structure Nice CD's other families who have shifted their structure but they're thriving and they're fully alive they're held in there and so. One of the the definition. Of A broken families, any family in which a member has to break herself into pieces to fit in I in a full family is a family regardless of structure that everybody is held and free in valued and seen and loved, and so our family is different. You know we have. Craig who is our? Most important person are Bir most important person is my friend. And we vacant we just went on a huge family vacation like it was don't get me started talking. Coffee Water Racheted Gunston. On. Trees. It wasn't. Just, fly trees, Aetna but Whitewater rafting. Zip Lines. Say. Artists when explain the? Whatever you want. But we were with Craig and his girlfriend and her. Son and our kids like they're just. There are ways. To do things, there are more beautiful visions of family than what we have in our minds. And sometimes in order to create the beautiful family were made for we have to go outside of what our Culture Thomas is acceptable. I'm love the conversation. Let's take a quick break and here from the sponsors today show is brought to you in part by magic spoon. So I don't know about you but I have been in the snacking mood. Lovely especially since we've been working from home. 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Free Today on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best scenes. Let's get back to it. So it's been brought up a couple of times I'm curious. I think Abbey you said, you're recovering Catholic what? What is each of your relationship to religion? Or God I think maybe more broadly now. Yeah. Mine's very complicated. I started a little bit before I was born raised Catholic and. from a very young age I realized that I was either going to have to choose God and my mom or myself. sexual or myself Being who I was gay person. and. So seventeen years old I decided. Okay. This is something I can't deny who I am. So I went I turn toward myself. Thank goodness. Until my my relationship with God at that point I became a hard core like eight years. That was like there is no such thing as God. Got Us. There is no god that's basically what I, what I was trying to make true for myself. In order for me to walk away from got. That, the God she did not believe you. Could. Actually. It's one of the things that brought me. To is her face in her her definition of God because. Can you tell the story about when we were? At an event where this? Yeah. So we were I think a lot at churches. Let it break churches. Crazy churches and we were were getting ready to go out to seek. Minister in the back. and. You just. Mr Must've been really wonderful because you just really opened up misuse I ask are you opening night? You always have suffers. So will. Pass. What do you mean by open and affirming abby? So we could. of. Churches that actually recognize gay people basically right. More specifics that I mean I would say that that's not it's more complicated than that. So an open Fermi church to knee in practice is a is a church fully affirms gay people. So not just they were that churches do where they say we welcome everyone. So I always tell people that if you WANNA know where a church stands, you do not look at the pews. You look at the moment. So if you want to know who would church accepts, it celebrates you don't ask they invite you ask who they hire to lead. Okay. Because what you will find many churches say we're open to everyone we welcome everyone. But if you are woman, you are only allowed in the nursery. If you, you will see no people caller on the you will see disabled people. You will see no gay people in leadership anywhere. So to me, the measure of a church is who they hire to lead. So to me like in many churches, you don't see anyone in a pulpit who looks anything like somebody Jesus would have actually been hanging out. Back Right. Now if I don't see anybody in Church that looks like a Radimov, it looks like somebody who is pushed to the sides like somebody who's marginalized in our culture then I know that what we have is not a church we have a country club. Right. So For me that is extremely important that the question I ask all the time before and asks you get a churches. Can You please show me? You have on staff? and. So back or yeah yeah. So. We're in the back of the minister says on. Abbey says you know I at a really young age with with made to choose between God and myself my deepest saw Anna chose myself. And Minister said Damn straight she said something like that and I look like It's not exactly it in what the conversation we had after I. Think this is the best way that I can describe the difference between faith and religion. Is that what I realized happened with Abby is that when she chose the Celtics, got made her when she chose. Being right when she refused to abandon herself to fit inside religious. She was not choosing herself instead of God in Church. She was choosing herself in God instead of church. When she walked away from church in that moment, she was doing that to protect God in her. Right. So if I had to define. What is to me? It is an allegiance and alliance a integration not with a man made religion but with the deepest soft, which is God, right. So I would argue that this is what Jesus was saying over and over again when he was saying I and the father are one. Right, the Kingdom of Heaven is not out there. It is in here right that there is a a deepest self that is like this. Little, piece of God that's been broken off at his inside each each one of us. What sometimes I believe is the danger of any fundamentalist religion. Is that in our in our in our the secret, the secret goes to these places. The secret wants to find God in indies. Places often is the place where they are most separated from God because what analysts any not just religion company cult any kind of group needs to do is separate a person from her deep assaults right in order to gain allegiance to that group. So, this is why and in the beginning of autumn analysts religions, not just Christianity what is taught to us in the beginning is that we cannot trust ourselves. In that is the lesson that is the hardest wicked. That is the story of Adam and Eve, which is you know do not follow your curiosity do not trust yourself you will be. Particularly misogynous because it's the woman who's the temptress in and torn away. But I think that what Abbey was taught, which is so sad and I work with so many families who have gay kids. Who Come to crisis point right where they have to decide whether they're going to choose their religion going to choose their child. Whether they're gonNA. See God more religion or they're going to see more in the being the child. Is that. There is a time where we actually believe that religion at the same thing. And And I think that that day in that Minister's office I mean. She literally said all those words to me within for five minutes and she's like, okay, I got to go on stage. Sit In Holy cow that he didn't say. I just feel like it was the most important one of the most important conversations in my life because I had turned so far away from God that even though I thought I'd turned towards myself also is turning away from myself when I turned away from this guy that I thought was church right so that ever since then I think that I have. been more in line with the vine. With God with a law however, you define that for yourself. I. Honor That and you because I mean Glennon's words, it was the first time. She'd me to see myself as godly in a way in Jesus. You know I'm obsessed edgy like, I, worship the. On. Okay. And that's because like I just feel like. It makes me. Crazy that we're never actually talking about Jesus in the Bible, we're never talking about the actual Jesus. Walked around like literally looking at at this culture and asking questions. Okay. Who is power forgetting religion oppressing? WHO's fired for getting? Who is religion depressing gathering? People together eating with them walking with them always directionally toward power right? That's where the crew is going the whole time. Right towards the Roman Empire right so so Christianity is this. Vertical and horizontal of gathering all the people who are marginalized always. Always going towards the power structure that is causing that marginalization right so at. During that time when Jesus asks who's power forgetting whose religion or pressing it was back. Then it was the tax collectors right? It was the. The the prostitutes, it was the lepers, right those are the people the powers pushing away that religion is oppressing. Now when we use when we use the Jesus story as a guide to the way we're supposed to be living. Now we asked ourselves questions than were gathering who is marginalized. Right? We are gathering gay kids. We are gathering the Muslim people. In this country, we are gathering the kids gathering the black. Only, incarcerated people we are gathering the immigrant families at the border. We if we are not gathering news marginalized people that we are not living Jesus did in any way shape or form right in if we're not challenging, constantly the power structures that are causing that marginalization then we're not is instead. So I just might vision of Jesus and the way the stories that he was here to teach us are are different than the stories we see about what Christianity is Jesus in Christianity to me. Can be two different things. The interesting thing to me I'm sitting here listening to I, think our theology is slightly different and that's totally fine. I think more. I think I differ I don't know how you feel but in in the sense that I'm not sure. I view God in us as much as like I I'm a huge believer and I've been so frustrated at the church because I feel like there is like a Christian mold like everyone speaks the same vocab and says like Oh how's your? You know what I'm saying I'm here. And so it's like like you know the Bible talk about the body of Christ and I my huge believer like we each need to figure out why God made us what we're good at like we eat have talents that are God given right and like the have specific uses so I think almost like rather than I think God in US maybe it's like, God. displayed. Almost like his work, but it's I mean I'm just curious. It's cool because I agree with a lot of the things you're talking about like the confidence and the sense of adventure in the like the transparency that leads to so much good stuff. I've warned Andrew about this by the way before we started. Debating, theology and I wanted to like. Well let's go. warned him I was like I. Think you guys could really like. This for a long time. So we have to be careful not to like get a point is not the point is not the differences I just say that because a lot of the similar fruit you could say from our different theology, which is I think. One McLennan taught me early on in our relationship is the beauty of language something that I say. A word that I use might not relate to you in any way and one Glennon Genius A. Trait a gun is makes her genius is that she can speak anybody's life may at. What you mean when you're saying God and and it might be a little bit of perspective shift you you might say, might theologies a little bit different? I have a different. From the root of it all my. Name is such similar stuff. On. Christianity right? I'm like God in me and you know it's got to. Go to war over the. Right. and. We've had these conversations so many times and again, and we could go down a rabbit hole. I have so many other things that I would ask you guys. But we've all we've had this conversation so many times about just religion in general how everybody interprets every the same book so differently and makes their own rules and our own molds nice that you have to do this and you can't do that and. They all contradict each other and they all say you do this you're going to hell but the next religion says you can do it and you're fine. It makes it makes no sense to me because. Yes we we argue this up. For throwing this. Sorry, but he's like, oh no, I am curious I. Wonder if there's any tension ABC from your Athletic Background Glenn I understand your new fan of sports. Your. Sport this. But as athletes. were. Constantly taught like. self-imposed suffering lead like the importance of that right and like denying. Maybe what we feel like those desires are you know what I'm saying like whether it's waking up before him as opposed to sleeping in or like the Diet though. Glenn your book is like it's all about falling your desires and I wonder how you guys have meshed that. Well okay I would argue with you talking. It about falling desire but I think it's really important to talk about what kind of desires I'm talking about. It's about our deepest truest desires. So like the way that I when people often you know who pigeonhole as like. Eve. I believe he was framed but that's fine. Like I am. Even bits dragging people to like their desires like that's one way of looking at it but. I also think that. We have a way of looking at desire which is looking at surface desires. The for example, if a woman comes to me and says, we cannot follow our desire like you know I wanNA. Have a bottle Malibu and night like should I pick all denier and I'm like, okay, that's not the I am talking about. So so let's talk about what's inside that watch. Okay. What does the bottle of Malibu represent for you because in a capitalist turn? To Matt Nisa. Capitalist. Culture. Capitalism's job is is still figuring out what the deepest desires are human beings and then attach that to their products. And then sell the products right. So what people are selling to us is our own deepest desires. We don't know that. So what does the bottle of Malibu represent for you? What is represents is a Greek. Right. What it represents is depressed. What it represents stopped performing in checkout like what it represents get off the hamster wheel closed down your mind like rest deep deep deep breasts. Okay. So when I talk about following desire, I'm not talking about, let's all go get wasted and do all of the things like whatever the hell are. You know little I'm talking about desire beneath the desire to do something Jesus talks about all the time right like I'm talking about like. The deepest deepest desires of human beings which are to be seen to be loved too deeply love to serve to be free. You know all of these kinds of desires that actually we were meant to in life and life to the fullest to have met in to help other people meet to us. So when I I want to be careful about that when you say about following your desires because on one Christian spin that is like, oh, she's just out here like forget Armageddon is next with what she's telling people to do. The other Hartland read the book is that when I followed my deepest desires, what happened is this army of warriors unleashed all over the earth at has become one of the leading. groups in reunited Emily's at the border in sports serving refugees in Syria in like when people meet their deepest desires, they are three in wild amazing waivers. All of what Jesus? And I think just to go back to like the the whole point of that question, the difference between my athletic career and this drive sports we're talking about that. I had and how how do we connect right like one thing that I've learned my retirements from Glenn. Is this the difference between internal motivation and extra motivation? So? Most of my athletic career, I was externally motivated right I was motivated by. Wanting to win gold medals by financial gain by. Awards by. You know praise I mean praise is motivated by praise. Knowledge Trait of mine. and. Then when all that stuff went away I had to. Dig deep inside of myself to try to figure out what that was about because that's like so ego driven right. So for me, what I've learned is that this internal motivation, the stuff that I've been working on past four or five years since I retired not only is it much more fruitful in fulfiling, but it's actually more in line with God because I'm not saying this because I think God is in me or When I'm doing something true to who I am, it will be in line with the world. It has to be in line with the world end. Service. In, there is this crossover between spirituality and athletics spirituality and Statistics. Spirituality. If, we can find our truest deepest and most true and beautiful life that we can possibly live and we live at out I do think that. The Kingdom of Earth's the kingdom does come down to Earth on some. Sundays. I think you both talk about a lot separately and in the same conversations is identity. Glen I think you talk about a lot in your book abby you've talked about with sports and just in your book as well. I know from my personal experience with athletics. My identity was wrapped up in whatever the world wanted to tell me I was I was just the gymnast I was just the metal nothing else. They told me what I could wear how could talk how I could act who I should hang out with all of it. Glenn you've talked a lot about the identity that you got caught up in with your husband in the church and even going as far as like eating disorders in having an image tied to it. I'm curious how your relationship has helped that working through both identities in world stigmas because I know, one of the greatest things ever happened to me was finding Andrew because I was wrapped up an identity that I didn't know how to get out of and he saw something different when the doors were closed and I could Kinda let that guard down and he helps me kind of heal through that and become. Who I was and I'm curious if you guys have. Gone through that together or healed outside of it and. I don't know like flourished each other. Andrew Good. Familiar to me I. think that you know I can only speak for myself but terms of identity. You know I had a whole life before I met Glen Did pretty good. Okay. Was Pretty. Islands and gold medals. Party way too much. And I actually met Glennon one month into my sobriety. Lennon at that point had been fourteen or fifteen years sober. and. You know. It was more like when we met, it was more like a wreck recognizing like a remembering of something that I had lost myself long ago. And I didn't have this language until she wrote untamed, but in watching her actually go through. Getting, untamed. Or. Containing herself. you know you can imagine what our relationship could look like behind closed doors in terms of being to women who are very introspective, very philosophical spiritual seekers and mystic doger's we have nothing else to do so we. All the time about any feeling comes up like it's the stereotypically what you will you imagine that is. What you? That is happening in. Half an hour organization the other night about whether I sat enough when she was. Like A really a decent. I wish she would have with me. That's what I'm. Not. Sure. You think you want until you find yourself forty minutes into defending yourself or whether or not you're Sata when the person. I mean I think I just relate to what you said deeply sean which is just like. This person like sometimes it just feel as if all life is a stage. In the air this person that you can just be backstage with You know Is finally that person that you that sees. The Act? An I think the act which is identity is what we do because we think it is what will make people love us and sometimes it does. You know. Usually, it's probably not love admiration, which is a different thing. But then when you find the person who loves you when YOU STOP The act? that. When you found. Your personal similar to again your past and I mean a lot of people's past I. Feel like a lot of people make the mistake of they find someone who likes the Act are loves it. They marry that person and then they get tired of it they get tired of performing when their performance goes away. They're left with like. Oh, I don't know who you are and this isn't going to work instead of just finding someone from the beginning. That appreciates you are like you said backstage. that. Just to to add to that to one of the things that we always challenge each other on is this. External idea of identity what has the world been trying to tell me who to be and how to be and what to say and wider say. Not just for me as a woman, but also for me as a former pro athlete. For me now, as a parent as a quote, unquote stepparents we call me a bonus parent like there are so many rules that we step into as humans also calls costumes that we put on. that. Aren't really what we want in terms of the way that it's been portrayed to us, right. So we're always constantly evaluating whether or not the identity or the assume or the thing that we've stepped into is what we want it to be based on what we want. Right. So if Glennon wants to wear five inch heels because that makes her feel good about her then I'm all for it but like Is that. Really true that it's what he wants to. Limp around all I as the five eleven woman who has never been vertically challenged day life gray. It come from you and the identity that you. As a person. You know in it's in. So cool. You guys will get esmine drew gets a little bit older but like as as your kid starts to develop their own identity, like we've got a kid who sometimes she wants to put males on, do you make up an also go out kick butt on the soccer field aware suit went down where suit one day and next day she's dressed up in like total gland slick I mean it's mind-blowing. But for us, we have to always constantly challenge ourselves and our kids like what is identity identity? Do you want what? What, what, what doesn't, and then you have to figure out what hearts you're resisting? Like. So you guys. Are Daughter for instance. Wear suits for a week and abby like a regard. This is so awesome. She's expressing. A free spirit she is expressing herself and then two weeks later she comes out of the bed bathroom with eyeliner on in nails and having. An average. And I'm like, wait a minute. WAY FROM GOS-. Suits expressing herself but nails is is like she's about to become. By nine feel like maybe we are bringing our own idea of what freedom is to the child, and that's where partnership is really good at the. Mir Rights Right. that. That's my biggest fear with her daughter as the world already is like Oh if you have a girl, she's going to gymnast if you have boys going to be a football player. The world already painting their identity for them which is. Makes, me fear areas. How do you teach a kid from day one to be their own human being? I love. To be themselves, your right is get them to themselves. and. Just have their whole life via conversation have an have. Parenting them be like the treasure hunt, not the expectation list. So when I remember a couple of years ago I put this in untamed. So tisch came home and she's like mom. Chase wants me to be an all of these nerdy high school clubs and I don't want to be in these clubs and I think we'll to spend just don't be in the clubs like what's the problem Jeez I don't want to disappoint him. May said Okay Child. Listen. Your job. Throughout your entire life is to disappoint as many people as it takes so that you never disappoint yourself. I and she said. Even you. Especially me. Right, because no matter I mean listen as you do we know some biggest bats Activist Athletes Actors, in the whole world and they can be doing the most amazing things in at the end of the day they are still trying to impress appears. All right. Sure. Their parents can have been dead for twenty years and they are still living every day. To earn the fake approval of. Right. That's like the biggest conditioning. We have to raise kids who we have trained not to not disappoint us to not abandon themselves right? Because every little being that comes into this world has his or her or their own. Might Bone Own. Relationship with God that made them. Right and I think what happens is that parents step in and become is fake gods right that the child is looking at us. For who to become in what to say and how to act in the NAT. BECOMES THEIR CAGE as opposed to a direct direct directors, no middlemen between your child in their maker right and so however, you would teach them to look towards that maker. Instead of us what we have to do, you would call it something else. I would call it like uncovering is part of you, which I believe is God right so The idea is to step out of the space. Of. Conditioning expectation writes the living their whole lives is this GonNa. Please I mean we listen drew will take her cues. She's a girl right I wanNA be clear. Yes. Are. Got Her her name is drew also so. You, never know. I tand no, which is hysterical is. Drew, it's a boy as like no, she's girl now. We get it set. You know you. Drew is going to learn from y'all in the way that you respond to her. If she ever gets into gymnastics, she ever gets into football if it's available for for drew, she gets older but like at the end of the day, I mean Tisch like the other day she said. Like. Under her breath out. I don't know if I want to play college soccer. Now's like what do you mean? She's like I don't WanNa disappoint you and I was like Tisch. I don't care what you do. It matters not to me the last time we spoke about this, which was like a year ago you wanted to play college soccer. So I'm going to help you do that if that's what you want if that's what you want, I'll help you. But like I'm not gonNA push this is all on you you get to you have to be the one that motivates yourself. There's GonNa be no like. There's there's there's no disappointment was the thing that must Gobert Saito other. Subject to disappoint yeah, like. They get to live their own life and they're gonNA have some ups and downs were going to be stability people for that Mike. If you need us work here but you have to go out and figure it out on your own in that comes at a certain age to Powell the Strip nine months old. She's not ready yet to totally do this on the road I'm sorry you can. Stay in there a little longer. Wait. You do get to this point where switch your role as appearance like if you're climbing a mountain together her for a very long time year, the guy. Right here like the following year the guy you're telling them every little thing, and then suddenly you'd like the Sherpa. You're you're like, just give me your stuff. I'm following you right like nine here on upholding your stuff and I'm like. Is, not. Easy to, make that turns. Allow. When you're control noble. That's for everyone. Happy. I I am. I am every day more and more. Amazed at how humbling being apparent as I mean Glenn, you said in your book like you, your goal is not to save them. Your goal is to watch them save yourself and like that means some so much even in our baby phase where it's like man, we want to be all like we want to be hands on even though she's kind of learning how to walk and like she bump she has two little bruises on her face right now and as brutal, but it's like. Like, you just have to remind yourself. You have to be like this. I feel like she has to have some bumps and bruises along the way or else abby exact same. For a while easily fall seem exact spot when. And then they get bigger and like that's I just think you just keep that visual of your of your your whole life of Jew with the little bruises on her head and the data's proved not that you're doing it long but that you're doing it right giving enough free does Oh. Hard. Till majors wait till. She's a teenager and the bruises on her little heart. I can't I just WanNa, wrap around our APP and You suddenly realize that your little Jesus loving heart actually wants to commit suicide. Ever hurt her like it's Well I. Know Our time is coming to a close I'm I'm sitting here trying to think about who's better at what is is abby better at soccer or isn't Glenn in better at words and stories? It's like this is this is really really fun is both have so so much incredible wisdom for. Everyone to learn and I'm we are just honored to be talking to you guys and please keep doing what you're doing because I want to grow up to like. Just. Follow you guys and be a fraction of what you guys are. I think it's so cool that you guys are doing this now couple things podcast is awesome. I mean Sean I been such a fan of yours I'm so happy free. All that drew is in your life I mean maybe not during coup-bid like pink. That's. Crazy making, but I know that you probably made. Some, really awesome memories and it's just the beginning drew is going to be so great. We are here for you. Whenever she gets older if you guys don't want to put her in gymnastics or American football, the other football is. Or? visit. Glennon that is how I won Sean Heart was only poetry. Anyway now. Hey. and. I. Want to tell you that why the thing about your your social media which I think is. It's just the way how you how much you love each other clear and when you said, you know your social media is like the cute annoying things that your? Whole thing about that is when we see that we think of he took that video and he thinks she's precious associates like. There's you can see how much you can see how you see each other. which is a really beautiful thing. So thank you for being Yael and Andrew call me anytime. You argue about. Well, I love the conversation we're grateful for your. For your. Time. In on both congratulations are in order for both your books. Please everybody go get them. UNTAMED IN WORTH Wolf. Pack Glennon Abbey. We'll talk later.
SMNTY Classics: Motivation Matters
"This episode of stuff mom never told you brought to you by Pantene lately. I've been using the pantene rosewater collation and it's fantastic not only does it smell incredible but my hair feels softer than ever like an actual rose petal yeah I said it and best of all all the Pantene rose water collection is sulfate free and contains zero parabens mineral oils or dies this really one of the reasons I love painting is because of their commitment to become of cruelty free company so using science to make great shampoo and do it without hurting animals which is awesome so try. The new painting Rose Water Collection. Hey this is Annie. Oh yeah influenza and welcome Steph. I'm never told you to exit of iheartradio. Is How stuff works did you play soccer as a kid Samantha no no well I came from a very small town so the only sports we ever had that were baseball softball football basketball and the story and maybe some tennis I guess soccer was no no soccer do soccer Nella J.. That's funny idea. Remember <hes> I played Falker and I remember it being this kind of battle to even get funding because all the funding goes to football right which is confusingly North American ball. I think I think people know what we're talking about. <hes> and it's it's sad because I was really competitive for a while when I played but when I became a teenager I was so insecure about my body and my ability that I quit it kind of goes back to the impossible goal pages yeah pretty much I got breasts and then I was like no guaranteed southbound about I'm embarrassed and it's still bums me out but in college my roommate had a poster of Mia Hamm. ooh Yes and I remember occasionally just being really happy like toast there yeah. I'm feeling this yeah get it get it. I mean bend it like Beckham. It was fantastic one of my favorites. I haven't seen that so long. It's been a while yeah yeah yeah <hes> but yes the reason we're talking about. This is the U._S.. Women's national soccer team just won the women's World Cup. Let's get equal pay yeah. That's what people started chanting in Eh team in the U._S._A.. Yeah they're about to meet up with <hes> some of the female senators yeah awesome well congratulations to them and Grad so pad number four number four number fourth one. Oh Oh no they're number one in four World Cup number four never and yeah while this has been happening while everyone's everyone's been watching this a lot of issues around equality and sexism have played out <hes> I remember there's all the talk that they celebrated too hard right. It was like not <hes> sports yeah uh-huh and then in <hes> immediately after they won the equal pay chanting <hes> and there have been so many reasons for so long that are untrue <hes> about why the women on the team don't get equal pay a number one being the women's team doesn't generate as many viewers as the meal team <hes> but the final game of the twenty nine hundred women's World Cup rated as one of the highest in soccer history when it comes to version. I think one of the other reason reports they've made more money. Yes they did or any than the men's team they absolutely did and you know you know win the last best showing for soccer in the U._S.. Was I'll tell you the twenty fifteen Senate Fiba Women's World Cup final <hes> and this year's viewership is twenty percent higher than the men's twenty eighteen final <hes> and the U._S.. Men might not have been in that game which is another point. We could make <hes> but that's still pretty huge right yeah. <hes> the team filed a class action lawsuit the Women's team against the U._S. Soccer Federation asserting they get paid less than their male counterparts for the same work and that they were expected to work under worse conditions quote for substantially equal work. I'm by denying them at least equal playing training and travel conditions equal promotion for their games equals support and development for their games and other terms and conditions of employment equal to the M in T- The prize. Let's talk about that. The prize for the two thousand eighteen men's World Cup was four hundred million dollars while female players will receive thirty million dollars this year. That's I mean snoop. Dogg set it pays women. He said if Snoop Dogg it chimed in like what the Hell Y'all that was my impression. I'm sorry is all right. That was actually me just saying it yes as me pretending like it would have been something dogwoods said but it's not yeah but snoop Dogg I get you. I hear you. I got you that same year. Twenty Teen Women's matches generated over a million more dollars in revenue than men's the U._S.. Men's team failed to even qualify twelve I last year and doesn't have the same record of success that the women's team does so. I'm just they're so awesome and like seeing them being vocal and like all about equality and l._G._B._T._Q.. PLA Right. It's been such a thrill and I'm so it's like seeing that Mia Hamm poster over get so happy and they're inspiring and congratulations congratulations -gratulations yes but let's get them some equal pay equal pay welcome to stuff mom never told you from how stuff works dot com hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm caroline and to celebrate women's history month which is March by the way all of March yes and also to explore questions tunes that we hear directly from stuff mom never told you listeners and also just from ourselves about how to become female trailblazers gender-equality instigators and fearless rabble-rousers. We're presenting this month long mini any series. We're calling change makers and before we get to today's fabulous an inspiring change maker. We want to give you a little bit of background about how this series came to be yeah. Let's talk about the makers in. Change makers because all of this was inspired by our trip to a women's empowerment conference hosted by makers which is a platform from A._O._l.. Gloria Steinem is godmother of sorts and makers is the largest video oh collection of women's stories and at this fantastic conference caroline I had the opportunity to chat with a few of those makers who are personally driven to change our environments and ultimately changed the World Hashtag N._B._D.. But we realize how change making consume intimidating I mean how do you start. What if you aren't a celebrity or a corporate superstar? What are the transformative tools that we all have regardless of where we are in life regardless of whether we're podcasters or not it will thankfully we have resources like makers that showcase all of these female role models who stories and insights demonstrate not only what incredible societal impacts women can create even today but also how each of us can find our voices and our authentic paths towards success for today and for the future so with that? Let's get to change making caroline. The theme for this many series episode road is motivation matters. Yeah we're talking to the incredibly motivational Abby Wambach and I find her to be incredibly motivating because I don't know win. Last time was that I heard someone who was just so determined to make waves yeah I mean she's motivating but she's also one of the most motivated people I think I've ever met and a combination of her motivation and the confidence the sheer confidence that she has to back it up. <hes> is something I think that we all can learn from because for those of you who don't know Abby Wambach is one of the best soccer players in in sports history. She scored more goals in international games than any other player male or female she's incredible and she recently retired and she has this massive platform and the kind of platform and connections that team is so out of reach for folks like US everyday folks but when we talked to her she also offered so much practical insight into the things that you and I can be doing every day to kind of become our own abby Wambach said you know what I mean. Well yeah and I mean Abby Wambach part of how she became Abby Wambach has to do with with her upbringing. She's the youngest of seven kids and so she really pushed herself not only to just keep up with her siblings but to be able to get any attention in huge group of people as the youngest of five kids I could one hundred under percent relate to this <hes> she talks about how she has a bunch of brothers and I think she has four brothers and she would kind of have to endure harassment sibling harassment from them they would often play hockey and she would be the keeper and they would just like pelt the hockey pucks with them they would also pull pranks on her but she had this Dr growing up that resonated completely with my experience as the baby in the family where she never wanted to win just because they let her she always wanted to win fair and square and so that competitive edge was there in her from the Gecko and not surprisingly that translated right to the soccer field where she these are playing when she was a kid and was immediately at the top of her game growing up and I think it was in high school that she really started developing her signature style of heading the ball. She's known for scoring via heading which as someone who played soccer for a couple years than I grew up with soccer players all in my family that just amazed me because I am just not great at heading the ball to be able to do the kind of force that she does you literally have to you have to be a hard headed hard headed. Yes thank you I was like strong willed no that's not right hardheaded and thanks to that hardheadedness and that incredible innate ability in two thousand and four she was further motivated in Athens Greece to lead the U._S.. Women's Olympic soccer team to an overtime gold medal victory against Brazil and four years later she was motivated again to heal from a fractured Tibia <hes> and fibula and that sidelined her at the Beijing Olympics and she had to sort of learn to be able to sit back and let others take the lead and for those of you who didn't tune into that women's World Cup in the semi finals finals the U._S. was playing Brazil and they were down and Abby Wambach and her incredible heading skills just general skills was able to score and tie things up sending the game into overtime and I think it went into penalty kicks and of course U._S.. One one they were defeated by Japan but that U._S.. Brazil game was just stunning to watch and in twenty twelve just a year later she was named as women's player of the year so which is honestly no surprise because of all of her internal drive all of that motivation that led up to that point and ever since announcing her retirement in October two thousand fifteen wambach has a new an even bolder motivation. She's talked about how her life was so shaped by title nine which a lot of people might not realize that title nine was actually not intended to even the playing field for girls and women's sports but because of that outcome it enabled her to go to high school and play soccer and then go to college and obviously continue playing and have access to soccer soccer or for our European listeners to football to having access to those kinds of sports and so now that she's been through the system choose at the top of the professional sport and now that she's retired. She's described her next big thing that she's clearly still developing as titled Ten Yeah. She has had the chance to meet now that she's retired. I mean I don't know if she's actually sat down or like rested for a minute but she's he's had the chance to meet all sorts of executives politicians just leaders in this country and in the world who have helped sort of open her eyes to things like the gender gap and she even visited the. White House and when Obama met her part of what he told her with that playing like a girl means playing like a bad ass Obama can like the father of two daughters Caroline. I'm sure that meeting President Obama was quite a thrill cut. I mean I would think that her opportunity to meet a couple of lady. PODCASTERS was I mean so far the highlight of just I'm going to say everything you know. Yeah I can see how we can really play Arolla in her continued motivation absolutely congress urban pushing Wambach to be even more incredible. We loved the chance to talk to her. She's a fantastic woman. WHO's again Christian already said this but I think it bears repeating? Her confidence is is out of this world. It's is really inspirational to see a woman who just absolutely has and I'm apologizing for this this time but she's got her eye on the ball. ooh I know you love it. I'd say that Pun was a goal a WHO thanks we'll so yeah let's let's jump into our conversation with Abbie and find out kind of what's on her mind as she enters retirement still getting used to sing former and right now. I am figuring out how exactly I'm going to change the world because that's what I'm GonNa do. That's who I am. I don't understand why people people wouldn't want to positively influence our culture. Our our daughters are mothers our brothers our songs and I think that I have a unique opportunity in a platform to be able to do that in a really progressive way <hes> that stands and <hes> and so it's going to be an interesting couple of years figuring it all out but that's that's the beauty of life you know trying to figure it all out so in addition to her massive platform which by the way now includes her own Barbie doll I mean I feel like you know you've made it. When you have your own Barbie Doll Caroline quick question also I don't WanNa get too far away from Wambach but if you had your own Barbie doll like what would be the Carolina Barbie doll accessories? It's let's see she would be carrying a Corgi and a sandwich. Yeah I think that would be Cortina Sandwich. I like that is separate hands though Oh can't unless it's a really well behaved Corgi that could put the sandwich on its head right obviously if you do it in the same hand corgis can eat the sandwich yeah but that would be cute to watch it would be. I'm just saying well. That's the Barbie Doll Carolina and I I will preorder when it comes out. I consider it to be part of a Lady Power Lady Power Sandwich today we have a podcast recommendation for you. Listeners it is a podcast called unpopular and it has some people involved that you might recognize familiar people's super producer Andrew and easy heard on this very show. Oh agitator heretic contrarian pariah enemy people have been called a lot of names for challenging the status quo but a lot of people in history refused to back down even when they knew their descent could have serious consequences unpopular is a podcast about resistors pariahs dyas rebels and revolutionaries about people who meaningfully oppose accepted beliefs and conditions from sitting bull to Galileo to Food Eliah ransome-kuti these people with radical ideas who took a chance on what they believed in inspired real change big and small aw whether they were fighting for the abolition of slavery a major change in scientific theory or dress reform they all rallied against convention to create progress every week. Unpopular draws a line between the disruptors of yesteryear and protests and nonconformity today is it worth aren't they to speak out when the world is against you listen and subscribe at Apple podcast or on the iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcast bag tool Wambach <hes> she has this lofty goal obviously she wants to create this thing that she's calling titled Ten which is essentially attacking the issue of the gender wage gap which is all around the world alive and not so well and in order to do that. It's GonNa take a lot of coalition building obviously and so we wanted to ask her about how team building and also serving as the captain of <unk> her team on the soccer field will translate into starting this movement because I mean she definitely has the individual qualities of a leader when she was talking to A._O._l.. CEO Tim Armstrong for instance. He asked for like three words that people who would use to describe her and without missing a beat he just said loud fearless and a winner and he'll Wambach in my life I think yeah I think we we all need a little Wambach in our lives and I like to though that when she talks about team building and pulling people together like she she's very clear that we need all sorts of people represented she's been quoted as saying we need men at the table to we need people of all different backgrounds and so when we asked her about what she was going to do in terms of using her team building experience to try to change the world she gave us some great insight but she also so corrected me on my use of the word try you have to effectively find out what motivates each individual at the same time still adhering to the collective goals in which she sets forth as a collective and and it's not easy by by any stretch it's it's very difficult to <hes> to motivate and find what motivates people. It's a hard thing you know I know parents are around. The world struggled to do that themselves but the truth is is the beauty of it all is in that form of motivating trying to find out what motivates people all you are really hoping to do is for them to learn about themselves solve so they don't need external motivation so that they can motivate themselves to be there Beth best off and to correct you <hes>. I'm not wanting to change the world and going to change and I think that that's a very very a unique and important justification because I will not let myself fell at that because I think it's too important now. In terms of failure Wambach has experienced it personally obviously losing games sometime <music>. I'm getting injured and not being able to go to the Beijing Olympics and she's also experienced it on the on the receiving end in terms of the failure of professional soccer to level. Level the playing field and even before she retired Wambach was in obviously still is extremely vocal especially on pay equity for female players because the disparity between what male professional soccer player will make versus a female professional soccer player is so stark if we just look at the World Cup payouts for instance the total women's World Cup pay out is fifteen million dollars which nothing to sneeze at but the total payout for the men's World Cup five hundred seventy six million dollars to that's a different set is a difference I think according to our math skills caroline that is a big difference approximately approximately give or take a giant difference a giant gap. Yes giant pay gap. I I mean when you look at what's going on with women's soccer compared to mend it is a stark difference like you said a first division. Women's soccer player makes ninety eight point six percent less then comparable professional men's players and this kind of gender discrimination is even reflected in the subpar artificial turf of the women's World Cup finalists had to play on and there's even been a gender discrimination lawsuit lawsuit brought against Fica to get the women on natural grass and that might seem like a quibble of Oh well who cares whether you're playing on astroturf or natural grass and the answer is it changes everything well not to mention mentioned that there was that one recent incident where they showed up to play on turf not grasped and not only was it not up to par but I mean there were rocks everywhere scuffed holes. They couldn't play on it. Yeah I mean it sounds like those kinds of conditions are just flat out dangerous and in speaking again to A._O._l.. C._E._O.. Tim Armstrong at the Makers Conference Wambach said it cost zero dollars to treat somebody equally and that fires me up. Why is this still happening happening? I'm pissed off. Yeah I mean she's really zeroing in on this pay gap issue in her retirement. I mean we well we keep referring to it as her retirement but it doesn't sound like she's slowing down or heading to boker anything you know she. She's talked about the need lead for real equality for all people and his even pointed out something that we've sort of touched on in a lot of minty episodes which is the idea that people are brought up thinking women are inferior and so so she's really kind of putting her flag in the ground saying this is my issue and I'm GonNa tackle this and we want to get her perspective to on managing failure especially as you're working toward such a lofty goal because the thing is closing thing that infuriating gender wage gap also requires confronting gendered notions of female perfection and learning especially as girls and women who are socialized to avoid risk taking and and fear to understand how to manage that in a healthier and more successful way in the long term. I think that that's a really great point especially because now that we're fighting for positions editions of power whether it's the Oval Office or positions on executive boards whether it's the token one female in the Executive Board Room <hes> women are expected to be perfect and fit this perfect quote unquote so <hes> system this image. I think that men have created for us. <hes> my my personal belief is the more times you fail. The more you learn. It's not easy 'cause <hes> knowing what society believes in terms of perfectionism from a female's perspective you we all have high standards you know <hes> and I think that that's a positive but it also can <hes> hurt us in some ways because when you do fail it's never about what you fail or how often you feel. It's always always about what you do when you're when the failure happens how how you react. That's your character. That's who you lar- you know when when you feel one time you learn it's experience you turn the page and you move on and the faster you can move on the quicker. The learn will happen the quicker that experience will set in and the more respect you will get because the truth is is most guys out there. They've been punched in the face at recess right where they get their respect is if they get up right where they get their respect is is how they get up where they grow their character is is what they do after when after getting punched in the face metaphorically speaking of course literally playground violence we actually think recesses now gone so back to the schools G-gree-greece now of course getting back up is easier when you have a good support network and arguably Wambach has had a large one since childhood we mentioned her six siblings already but we really wanted to know what relationships have been critical for getting her to this milestone in her career and life well. That's a huge thing you are you are you are the environment you surround yourself with and you know as as you grow older and for me as I've gotten a little bit more famous quote Unquote Stamina so a new in call myself famous but I've been able to meet amazing people amazing people that that have changed the world right and so I just picked their brains I put myself in environments where <hes> I can learn as much as they can but my support system is is surely my friends and family. <hes> you know I'm so lucky to have the people that I've had surround me over the last four months you know even even since the World Cup ended. It's been a journey. It's been a it's been a real journey because when you've done something for thirty years and then you kind of strip away from that you know you wonder who you are because identified so much of myself as a soccer soccer player and to shed a soccer player skin and now recreate and re grow so to speak the skin of this older more wise more pretty woman Dan it's been it's been daunting and so you need the people around you that that that can mirror for you right <hes>. I don't need somebody to tell me what to do. I need somebody to mirror me so that I can see what I'm doing and from. Doc near I can then make those decisions moving forward to to be more positive and happy instead of an ad today we wanted to talk to you about a new podcast that I helped produce right during our sent on the planet. Humans have made a lot of stuff. Some of it is treasured. Some of it is junked. Some of it is just forgotten about how do we values in the things we create what deserves just one more look vanishes into the past these questions underpin the new podcast of federal host Alex Williams who's a good friend of ours guide you through a wasteland of things that were just barely saved in some cases not saved it all part history podcast part sound collage ephemeral features interviews with historians collectors authors and more episodes piece together stories lost the time a missing chapter of American music history addicts worth of original television broadcasts only once in a mystery caught on tape that seemed unsolvable Alex actually interviews his dad and the trailer and I really really am proud of the work that was done on the show and I think think that you all will dig it. Listen on Apple podcast the iheartradio APP or wherever you listen to podcast and learn more at a federal dot show breath is Wambach is so motivated and so extremely confident but she's also logical. She realizes that everything that she's saying is a bold declaration but it is inspiring mm to hear her breakdown. How that motivation factor and all of its individual components can ignite the Wambach level of passion that all of us can practice regardless of day are athletic ability or history-making talent? We don't have to all have our own barbies as much as Carolina. I really do want a Carolina Barbie as soon as possible but we don't have to be at that level to start practicing these things and fueling our own motivation for the long-term yeah again the the confidence and single-mindedness is really inspiring from Abbey she doesn't settle this is not a woman who settled. She told Tim Armstrong and her makers interview. I no matter what I do. I'm going to be good at but that's not good enough. Apparently that's not good enough. She says I want to be the best it's going to be changing the world and fighting for equality so everyone has equal opportunities entities small goals boggles small goals but I do. I love it like you said she really does. Break down how we can all stay motivated whether it is to become a world top of the world soccer player or whether it's just to sort of motivate yourself moment to moment throughout your day caroline. Do you think that starting now if I really feel up my Wambach level passion and get on that soccer field I can make it yeah. I'm sure it's just like muscle memory right you know totally starting to head the ball again well while I was playing soccer though as a kid I was also taking ballet which muscle memory will be revived okay well. You don't do the pure wedding on the field. Yeah okay good to know save. The plea is for later which is a motto that we should all have by the. Let's hear more from Wambach I've played. I played soccer for thirty thirty years the last five or six weeks. I've been meeting with a lot of people have been doing things like that and like this so for the last couple of weeks I've kind of just turned turned into my brain off things here and there that I've done and it's been really interesting because if you're out there and you struggle to find any motivation or you struggle to figure out what your next move our next step is going to be. That's okay because I've been doing that. Also you know and people look at me as awe-inspiring athlete who overcome overcame challenges and now is going to take on and spearhead this change the world equality thing <hes> but you know I'm I'm a human being to. I'm not like I'm looking at myself every night in the mirror motivating myself like come on you can do this tomorrow I don't do that. You know I'm a person and I have fears and questions and curiosities not just about the world of about myself and I think that that's so important too often people immortalize and and put idols and famous people on pedestals that we don't deserve. I maybe tall steam over most women and men but the reality for me is I'm. I'm human and I'm I'm scared in moments too and it's not easy to <hes> to sidestep some of that apps fear and to go after something that you really truly believe in because that's my my belief is if you're passionate about something enough. If you believe in yourself enough then those steps that you take towards that passion towards that goal will will will happen and sometimes it's scary to take the first step but I promise the second and third and fourth step will be so worth it. Take it from me. I've gotten up. I've I've failed. I've stayed down a little bit longer than maybe I should have but all that stuff is good. It's like it's real deep-seated. Good stuff that you will carry with you for the rest of your life and you know even now. I'm talking and I'm motivated myself to get excited about working out later today and that's a very trivial thing right. I'm talking about changing the world but then some people have to scale that back I don't have the platform abby has like how does this relate to me. Listen you have to motivate yourself every day to eat well to sleep enough hours to exercise and those are really really important factors at being a healthy successful happy human being otherwise everybody would be happy right. Everybody would have a perfect beautiful life. Not Everybody does because it takes work. It takes it takes failure and success. It takes all the different things and once you bundle bundle that all up in one package hopefully you're older and wiser and and you have and you have a good unhappy life and it seems like a lot of what underlies Abby Wambach inbox excess and her confidence and motivation moving forward is a lot of self awareness to I mean yes. She has achieved so much. He's a world-class female athlete with few qualms for calling out gender disparities. You know but she's also an l._G._B._T.. Athlete who's been so comfortable with herself and her orientation to the point that when she and her partner got married and there was obviously some new media buzz over it. She didn't really understand Dan because she was like there was never really a coming out moment for me. I've always just really been myself and even the way that she describes herself like she. She's clearly able to recognize where where she might have some faults but also how that feeds into our strength yes. She admits that she is as she put it this. These are her words ours. I'm a control freak know it all but she says I'm sneaky about it. I think I know what I'm I'm doing but I'm lucky I have the ability to step back. It's important again as we've talked about to have that self awareness and she really considers her compassion and her drive to understand others experiences as two of her biggest strength. So all of this is happening. You know while really the world is watching and there are so many girls especially out there who see abby Wambach as a role model and I can only guess served as she continues her work doesn't plan on stepping back from her public visibility at all the role modeling will only continue so we wanted to talk to her about the responsibility that she feels regarding role modeling what what impression she hopes. She's leaving with everyone on the number. One thing I hope to role model is that you can be yourself. You can be excellent at what you do. You can win championships. You can break records. You can be be literally the best in the world at what you do but none of that will mean. You're a good person you have to you have to earn that every single day and it's how you treat the people amid being the best the best goalscorer winning championships so I always like to bring myself down to Ground Zero and remind myself that being a good person is the most important quality that you can possibly have and if you can have those qualities within all of the confines of having a successful happy life than than you've got. You've kind of figured it all out. You know what I mean and it's not always easy you know. Sometimes people won't their horns in New York City really annoy me <hes> and I get angry quickly <hes> but the truth is is that every single day is another opportunity to prove what kind of person you are and and I try to prove that I'm a good person every single day. I'm not successful at it. You know some days. I am too lazy some days. I'm too crazy. I don't even know what but <hes> every every single day is another opportunity to prove your worth and and we thank you events changing the world yeah I gotta say that it's comforting to know that Kabeer Wambach has those those kinds of emotional ups and downs in a way of getting angry clearly about issues like maybe not being paid as much as her male counterparts than just eh equality quality that she sees within society at large but that she can channel it and that we can channel that kind of anger into the powerful things into entire movement yeah and I think if we all could have even an ounce of Abbey's single-minded confidence and determination you know maybe we could all feel better about our opportunities that we have in seizing our opportunities to change the world around us. Yeah I mean in terms of the theme of motivation matters. It seems like after talking to abby yes there's that threat of motivation throughout her whole life that has led her to this point but there's also the connection between and self awareness and motivation so it seems like self-aware motivation matters yeah being able to recognize your weaknesses or failings and instead of feeling bad about them or letting them trip you up just saying I'm just going to compensate for them in other ways or you know whereas they might be viewed as negatives just viewing them almost as a natural part of yourself that you know you're just going to almost work around them yeah and also to the the factor of being motivated yes for yourself warts and all but also being motivated for others I mean it really seems like it was a transformational experience for her to have to take a step back in two thousand eight when she he was injured and watch her team and be motivated for them and clearly that same it seems like she's only spreading that farther because I feel like caroline she's motivated for all of us. I'd like girls and women and that's I mean that's what a leader is. Someone who's so driven but not only driven to benefit themselves but driven to make changes for the better in the lives of Others Carolina. I really feel like we are now. Introducing Abby Wambach the presidential candidate sounds like a good idea. Maybe she should pencil that. She's talking about all these world leaders yeah go ahead and hop on hop on in that mix yeah hot too well. Thanks so much to Abby Wambach doc for talking to us and now listeners. We'd love to hear from you. Maybe about your experience if you're female athlete or if she's one of your role models or the kinds of gender inequalities that you've experienced against and what motivates you moms seven House I've worked dot com is where you can send us your emails and you can also tweet us at mom stop podcasts or messages on facebook and links to all of our blogs videos and podcasts podcast so you can learn all the stuff. I never told you head on over to stuff. Mom Never told you DOT COM so we hope you've enjoyed this update date. This classic episode about Soccer <hes>. If you would like to email is you can our email is steph mediums iheartmedia dot com you can find us on twitter at mom of podcast and on Instagram at stuff on her a toll to you because it's always your super producer Andrew Howard. Thank you for listening stuff. I'm never told US production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or listen to your favorite shows in this episode of stuff? Mom Never told you is brought to you by Pantene lately. I've been using the pantene rosewater collation and it's.
Running Toward the Goal with Abby Wambach
"Hi everybody my name is romy welcome to the for the love podcast with your host. Jenn hat maker my mom. She writes books folks in speaks to cards but she mostly loves talking to amazing people on this podcast every week. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed the show. MM-HMM mayor. Here welcome to the show. This is the for the love podcast. I am super glad that you are here. So you probably know that we are in a short series. It's called for the love of finishing strong and I've got to be honest with you. I am kind of just doing the series for myself. To be honest it has been a year her and I know my own tendency which is to hit this portion of the year and just slide into entropy right like intellect absolute absolute inertia. Which never does what I wanted to do for me? What I wanted to do is fill like a break like taking a break and I have a breather and I'm resting in but it has the opposite effect for me? It makes me feel sluggish and and behind and off task. And that just doesn't work for like it's not. Oh good for my brain and so I thought I wonder what it would look like to consider finishing not just twenty nineteen strong with this entire decade right strong so so that is why we are here and I wanted to talk to people who could essentially shepherd our thoughts toward crossing the Finish Shlein of this year with energy and with integrity and with excitement in fouzy Azam for what has been and what is to come and who can sort of lead us in that place. This one's a real winner because she holds up a mirror and and says sometimes these stories that you're telling yourself like are these really true Because I see something a little bit different. She does this really well. We talked about this. At length in a hundred ways she is helping women and men become their best selves She's one of my favorites and I think the world of her so my guest today is abby Wambach. No big deal. Abby is a two time Olympic gold medalist FIFA World Cup champion. Dan and this is just so special. The highest all time international goal scorer for male and female soccer our players About finishing strong she literally finished her soccer career at at the top of the game into now. Abby is an activists for equality in for inclusion. which we're GONNA talk about? She's The New York Times bestselling author of not one but two bucks. I once called forward and her latest latest which I love in fact I was with her on her two or stop in Houston as her interviewer is called Wolf. Pack had a come together unleash power and take the game and you don't don't have to know beans about sports to walk away with so much depth from this She is the CO founder of wolfpack endeavor. Which is essentially revolutionizing leadership development for women in the workplace in Beyond I? It's her retread. Now is incredible. Abby lives in Florida with her wife my good friend and the wonderful and amazing glennon doyle who I also love and their three children. This is just a really special woman. Especial friend especial a special leader. I admire so much. The both the internal work that she has done with a lot of transparency and then all the lessons that she so generously firstly shares with her community To learn from. You'RE GONNA love this conversation I I- I scribbled a handful of really furious various notes while she was talking because so many things she said meant a lot to me. So I'm happy to bring a today. I really am. I hope you love this conversation with a woman filled old with character. Encourage my friend. Abby Wambach well it is Lucky lucky lucky me and lucky everybody listening because has my friend is on the podcast today and I love her and you love her. Abby Hi Hi Janey. You are one of my favorites. Not only do I stock you online but Your work your writing your huge Sumer. Once the second I met You I knew we were going to be friends for life. I okay thank you for having me on your amazing podcast E- were amazing and I had the exact same reaction to you when I met you like I can remember what arena we were in. I remember remember. We're standing weirdly. Remember what I was wearing and had some really meaningful things to me and I'm like Oh okay I get it. I get the Abbey thing. Now I get the Abbey Mania. I'm signed me up President Amir Fan Club so obviously the world you know knows a lot about you and your you know wildly impressive career on and off the field Are I think you know this but one time when you want Glennon sort of early in your relationship you. I don't even know where you had been. But she sends me a tax and she's like so so happy he's way more famous than I knew so funny. And so I wonder if you will indulge me for my listeners for just a minute To kind of go backwards in your story. Because I'd like to hear a little bit more about your growing up years and kind of I want to know about young abby. Like what were you like. What were you into and we're was your personality kind of baked in Or did you kind of have metaph- -morphosis because I kind of dead like if you would have met me in second grade you would never have believed the shy so so so so shy so anyway. I would just love to hear that. Would you kind of walk us through the early years. Yeah sure and it's so interesting you know just even hearing that question. I'm I'm kind of trying to be I'm in the middle of doing some impersonal work for myself about the stories that I tell for my life and the things that I remember because as I get older The the story that I've told myself just gets more cemented deeper and deeper into my psyche in my memory but that is what I think is true right. I actually you think that our memories work much differently than that and maybe my story isn't completely true all the way through and So I've been doing a lot of rewriting or trying to get to the truth of what my story is and I think that the exercise has been really Healing in many ways. Because I think for a lot of my life attached myself to some of the TRAUMAS of my childhood. Yeah up more so than the joy. And I'm I've always been such a joyful awful person in a optimist that I'm trying to go back and unfiltered her actually filter in more. d'you boy and and the Times that I experienced true happiness because I think as an adult we can just wrap our minds around all the times that we were wronged or or all the things that our parents did to screw us up that like we forget about all the things that they did that made us wonderful and beautiful and a life that had but yeah. I was a fun loving in Kid who knew that I had exceptional athleticism from a very young age. I was kind of cut like I was like I was like a little Olympian Serbian. Looked like a little quads. triceps and ABS- Ironically those all went away when I actually became came a professional athlete as like where's muscle like underneath the ice level of like skin. That just didn't give me those six pack apps. I'd never never had six backups. Why did they have anyway? I really enjoyed not being bored. Let me say that I I think that throughout my life that definitely led me down. Certain Dark Dark roads sitting myself is has always been a struggle will being still a now in my retirement and now I'm almost four years sober. I'm learning inning. Really truly like the art discipline which is like the thing that children really struggled to learn right is like to doing something in staying committed to doing something over and over again something. That's GonNa help you right like like I was committed to sport but I really wasn't committed to reading. I wasn't commitments. Committed to eating healthy as I possibly could. So I'm doing all of those things now and you know the story of my life that I have told myself is that I'm stupid. In the only thing for the world is it's my sport and craft and so I've had to I. I mean by virtue of needing to stay. I've I've had to refocus my energy energy on that because I retired for years ago. Who am I without soccer and it had to literally recreate that vision for myself? So it's been an interesting chasing few years Learning about this discipline thing I tell you what like I really should have done this much longer. Ago because as you know structure liberates and that is for sure something that I found And it just like a laziness. I don't WanNa do this like it's a third authoritarian carrion thing Thing that had to give up a little bit so I I really did have great childhood and so in some way is had a hard childhood I was youngest Angusta seven kids in a huge family and I had to fight for what I felt like was talk time or attention to equal respect life that I was given and also rail against it in some ways. It's interesting to hear you talk about that because you know most of us when we consider view and sort of what you've done in the world I think if you as an incredibly disciplined person like you should write a book undisciplined supplant. So it's interesting to hear you apply that skill set outside of the one thing that you're so like naturally good at and so easily your success asa so easy to sort of access but to apply that elsewhere which I love that completely fits into the conversation. I WanNa have with you over the next bit. I know when I was a kid had like I learned about the world through the Lens of other men and women that I really admired and respected and the kind of adjusted my pass As from from what I was seeing so who did you have. Do you remember do you. Did you have any influences on the kind of like woman that you wanted to be the kind of athlete. You wanted to be kind of really whatever it was yes I did. I had a lot of influences. You know it's interesting because now our daughters they have influences They're able to find people that look like them. That sound like them. That are doing the thing that they're doing and I didn't have that same experience because is growing up in the women's sports world in the nineties in the late eighties. There were very few opportunities for women In the professional world You have women's golf and women's tennis nineteen seventy two when title nine was passed. And so now you're seeing a couple of generations translator having a real impact. Yes I had women that I looked up to but you also have to remember this was pre Internet yet. Growing so like the the The women's national team started in and around mid eighties. I was born in nineteen eighty and when I got into like my teenage years and started to try out and train for higher level teams regional teams national teams. It's starting to get into my consciousness to start thinking about. Oh who else is doing this at like the oldest level and and so my consciousness started to get really aware Of Mia Hamm in April heinrichs and Karen Gabbara NFL acres and Julie Foudy and Christine Lilley. These women who who actually ended up playing right in with Gli ten years later. But you know I had pictures of MEA up on my wall and I had and this is before the nine World Cup right when in one World Cup at the Rose Bowl OFFER HER JERSEY. Of course really. Women's Women's sports kind of took off in 'cause 'cause this one tournament really truly made women's sports marketable down something that that both men and women can watch which turned the entire industry upside down And so I'm so grateful that not only was was I kind of a part of that long. Lineage wasn't on that team but I was on mute national teams that I was able to take take that that baton and kind of continue on. But you know it's interesting because I think about You know my my parents and my brothers and sisters in the inspiration that they gave me and and like I was saying earlier as much as they inspired me and helped me and drove me everywhere. Day also motivated me in ways. I didn't realize that I was specifically needing right. So I'm not saying this works for everybody but I was kind of an unmotivated lazy kid as related to my physical abilities My parents would have to bribe me now. Gathering they were like bribe me into scoring goals. They would pay me in college. which is ridiculous? I know not the way you're supposed to do things like pay goals. Yeah Yeah it's like paying kid for sure but the problem is is like actually motivate worked for you. It worked worked so I credit my parents for finding the thing that motivated me and you know of course. I watched all of the Olympics. Ever I thought that I was going to be a figure. Skater at one point Not Because I was good at figure skating but because it was my favorite Olympic sport to watch you know so yeah I've had some really cool mentors. I I think that some of the coaches that I've had pearson to Haga. She was my coach in two thousand two thousand nine two dozen eight to two thousand twelve and she was one of the most impacted impactful coaches. I ever had having a woman who showed me how to lead it in a completely different way a more authentic way which you know I had never really seen a woman due before was was really really important. I think Still driving much of the culture sure in inside the national team. Yeah I heard you talk about her before and I loved that story about how she sort of turned what Leadership But specifically coaching looked like on its head at that level. Of course and I see that in you I I see that shine in the way that you lied. I think leaderships one of your greatest gifts and the way that you right now show up for other people people and the manner in which you at this approach in which you do that is it's humble and wise all at the same time. It's gracious and generous arrest. You you manage this authenticity that sometimes I think women strong arm they power through in some sort of I think maybe effort to feel really strong in spaces basis that are maybe predominantly occupied by men. And yet you've had that example set for you and I see you setting it for other people the way that you're leading. 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Ns the struggle that most leaders have to constantly embrace so every single team Eh. I played on growing up I found myself to be one of the best players. It was just what happened. I was scoring goals. Not necessarily my fault or because because that was my job that was what did in Austin when especially when you're really young if you are scoring goals they assume you to be some sort of leader and I think because of the time that I was young I was given this challenge of holding people's complete Confidence because when you were one of the best players in you know what and when you walk into a room and you stay in you can feel everybody's attention turned burdened you one of the things that I always That I promise myself to always work on is to make sure that everybody in the room. C is seen because because I I know what it's like to be the attention getter and I WANNA make sure that everybody on that team are everybody in. That room has a voice. And there's they feel they feel seen and heard and that has literally been what I've practiced since a little kid and I don't know I think it's because being the youngest and I didn't get a lot of attention I think as I grew older got an end watched some of these older players on and and the way which they chose to lead was different the way that I would choose the lead on the Dick. The team that I stepped into generation was different than the team that I started on and I think that that is all it so it's a very small thing that people don't realize that it's a detail that people don't understand that twenty years ago a coach or captain. Tim could stand up in front of the team. And say this is what we're GONNA do and this is how we're GonNa do and then the team would go and do it right. How is a totally different? Ballgame you as a leader and as a coach. You actually have to figure out. Individually what motivates each player because when you gather a group of people all together the best way to come out with the best plan or or the most or the most goals or or the the win is to make sure that everybody everybody has a voice in everybody has a say in everybody has a term and that is how you actually create championship teams. It's not one or two per to people making the decisions that is like Point years ago the modern wave leadership is is getting the best people in the room coming up with the best plan together and then the creating the strategy to then go unleash upon whoever you're playing against whatever it is we're talking about. Yeah totally so. I think that you know for me. I really struggled early on in my leadership when when when the older players left and I was now this is kind of this team was dawn like Abbie here. You go here here. You're the keys and I tried to be what they were did you. But what I found is over the years is oh thank thank goodness PIA came into my life because she showed up in showed her specific unique version of what leadership looks. Yeah talk about that for just a second for those. Who is it was? It was so rife changing and up until this point. I had only really been coached by not just men. But but women who operated rated sure like Ben and and showed up into the environment believing and talking and being being like really started in hard core of course and not embracing the full beauty of their femininity. And I think that that's what he did so well she. She embraced the full being -ness of who she was both her feminine parts in her masculine parts in she just brought her total self to the team and then what she also did which is what is the most difficult thing for a leader to do because you have to give away some control is you have to let everybody around you. Bring them their full sales to the table to and you have to find ways to connect all of those people rather than searching for ways his American trait like Oh this doesn't fit. Your out is doesn't fit your out and it's like why would you leave one thing that you're all the way over in this camp and you're not you don't belong over in this camp anymore that's all BS. Like I think I think that's why teams are such a great equalizer in our world today because we can kinda a slice through the politics in the es of it all and still be sitting with each other at the end of the day. It's like we're actually dislike people and were allowed. I believe in different things and we still consider break bread. Like let's be real here. Only so long story short PIA shows up and she plays us a song very first meeting with they are and like for the first part of the song I was like thinking to myself. Who is this lady we are? We're screwed you're screwed food. And then you know everybody's kind of leading back and then as the Song Kinda keeps going. I found all of us and I look around and like at the end of the song. She just had us like she was like. We were wrapped around her finger and I was. I was amazed at when when greatness meets needs greatness with no judgment in those moments. There's magic and you can't you can't meet other moments or people people and have that moment of magic. He can't meet them if you don't bring your full self if you're leaving half of yourself at home or your pretending to be a more male version of yourself going into work because you think that that's that were calling upon it's actually the opposite is true right now. The thing that is going to solve so many of our problems Salem's is often leadership and to call on all these different parts of ourselves and utilize that whatever is necessary very into whatever the task at hand is that is leadership that is the leadership that follow. Yeah absolutely same and that's what I'm drawn to. It's not just what I'm drawn to. It's what I moved by. Hi It's what inspires me. It's what changes me and pushes me and I just think it's a great time to be a woman in leadership on any strategy like of course I'm listening to you as an elite athlete. Talk about this on a professional scale but everything you're saying translates to women in all the areas that they we'd That this it's a very very strange risk. Take to show up very true faced to show up authentic to show up vulnerable in spaces to lead with strength that you have out of the tenderness that you have And yet all my experiences say that is where the magic happens. That is where meaningful change exists that is where barriers are broken down and And so we know when we just kind of looked sideways at a lot of women in leadership right now the ones who are really making a difference or the ones you just described those are the ones And so I want this. I want to ask you this question because I'm interested to hear we had to say on this. The series right now on the podcast is on mm finishing strong because not only are we about to finish twenty nineteen. But we're about to finish a decade. You know which sometimes gives us a moment to pause is and really consider both last ten years next ten years And so you understand finishing strong in a a really unique way. Because you've you've been an athlete at the top level so you've a billion times had to push against what your mind or your body was telling you bill. That wasn't possible that you could not do that. You could not finish and host love for you to talk for a few minutes about everybody right now who he was staring down the possibility of defeat And the potential for finishing strong feels too elusive or a two impossible or Our minds and our bodies and the rules spoken and unspoken are telling US everything opposite. What how would you coach us more or less? Well first of all I think the mentality of finishing strong is either there or it's not and I also understand that I've had a lifetime of practice at this so it gives me a little bit of a privileged edge Over other people in. It's not easy. It's not easy to Not give up telling you this. I'm telling you this and this is what I think may be the most true thing That I could probably say on this. PODCAST is most of successful people that I know and and some are the most wildly successful people on the planet. But most of the people that I know that have found success in life just didn't give up. That's it that is it's pretty simple. It's like I know that it sounds so freaking cliche but just trying to like Step that it aside for like just not giving up because for me. It wasn't ever about winning. Though that that helped Scher winning always helps in having definition of what a goal is and and what what defining what a win means means like that's actually been something that's revolutionize revolutionizing my retirement is up before every meeting. Have I usually say okay. What is a win win? Your like. I need to know what I'm going for And and we define what that is and then I have like structure and I'm fine like in even if I tail and I don't win in that meeting or whatever it is I at least have some structure so I don't know I just think it's really important for people to understand that Most people are trying their very best. That's why and some things just don't work out but that doesn't mean quitting 'cause like what does that mean like. I am a person that pivots. And and if you're not in a position to pivot whether it be financial or emotional or family or whatever I get that but that doesn't clean you can't pivot in your mind. That's right so so for instance the other day. I'm training for half marathon. God help me. Oh my gosh. Why and yesterday I had to run twelve miles and I was on my eleventh mile. All Ages is the easiest mile run after a long run. Because you said you just get get it done. Yesterday I was suffering so bad in I I kept telling my running partner Mike. Just go like Elsie backer. Beth house like don't worry about it and she's like I've known I'm like listen. I cannot run any faster and so I'm and I'm not even looking at my watch and I'm just continuing to move my feet literally. That's I feel like I'm running Bricks on my legs and I finish. I am no slower than I was in any of the other miles it just I felt felt that way so so everybody would. I'm telling you is. Everybody feels like they've got bricks. Such A K and a few. Just keep moving forward in one way or another. Something is going to happen. The fact that you get to keep moving forward is the whole thing. 'cause listen I've been to the top I've won the gold medals. It's not about it's not about the end not about end. It's about who you do it with who you feel and like the self esteem that you build in your life for who you are who you're developing into it's the dreams and it's the dreaming and it's the accomplishments and it's the accomplishing. I mean like it's not about the final thing because by the way I literally like it's it's maddening. I got a gold medal wrapped around my neck and I stepped step off the podium and all thinking about now is how I can do that again. It's not totally right. It immediately evaporates if booth gone on. Get an that's that's probably a problem and who knows but it's just like that is life. It's like no matter how high you can climb the the old one place or another thing like I'm also working on trying to like lessened my need for materialism like the things that give me worse right and as a female athlete of course. I think that I was traumatized because I see all of these guys making hundreds of millions of dollars and they're driving all these cars so I'm like I think oh if I just couldn't get that car then then I'll be worthy and then I'll be wearing. Yeah I'm totally sidetracked. Here I just think it's important that people don't stop moving forward that is that's the deal. I couldn't agree more simple. That's the definition of it. And but you know what you just touched on something that I would love to talk to you about out because let's take the the idea of gaining any worse any like personal worth out of it because as you just said. That's a complete elite like house of cards but it has been really not just fascinating but encouraging to watch how people have come around women's soccer this year not just to celebrate. Obviously they're huge global success but to start talking about what you just said. which is this really important? Obviously long overdue conversation about fair compensation and what it means to be Paid fairly fairly for your work for your investment into a sport for your name and your lightness and so I just would love up to hear you talk about this What has it made you feel like Seeing this level of exposure because we talked about sort of nineteen ninety nine like the brandy era which was was really. You're right a huge turning point for a ton of us we can all remember where we were when she ripped at shirt off. But now it's kind of this next. It's this next leg of the race What does it felt like to you to see this happening around your sports specifically and people in power if you will oh putting their weight behind this conversation to do you? What do you think is coming next? What do you hope to see next? Well I thank you for asking this question because this is one of the things that I love. Love talking about the most For a lottery reasons. Obviously I'm invested in the team and what happens to them But were I've gone on with this. Conversation is bigger. It's wider and I just stayed with me for a second here because I think that your listeners might get a little nugget or two out of this which is so important. It's it's mind blowing for me because I've been going through like I said a bunch of learning from my childhood and where that begins for me is being the youngest of seven kids and having four older brothers and four older brothers and two older sisters so I grew up and I was just like one of the little like I was like one of the little boys like I was running around with my shirt off for way too long and they would put me in goal and I learned a lot from my brothers. I also learned a lot for my sisters but I have like an internal belief system that that I deserve to be treated like my brother's sure and so I've taken that arrogance. I guess I could call it that with me throughout my life and I think that Soccer also gave me a lot of confidence to walk into a room and to to to say how I feel demanded I want but I think that in order for all of us to truly understand the sexism and misogyny that runs even through our own selves. Even though we're like even though we're the feminists Out there internalized. It's it's it's so important to uncover your own stuff before before you even start looking at. Let's say this women's national team debate about equal pay. Because what you really think about. Women getting paid the same as mets great question because this is a been happening forever in every industry and now what's been so fascinating is we see this women's national team step up and start playing and not only are they playing but they're playing in a in a in a motivational motivational and inspirational away. And they're winning render doing it on the grandest stage and the remarkable. and Oh they're also not Getting paid the same. And so here's the number one debate that I hear well. The men's team brings in more money than women's team. Right right factually untrue. Like that like that should even matter. Okay great point like I get it capital. We live in a capital capitalist society but it shouldn't even freak it matter but still bill since two thousand and fifteen are women's national team has brought in more money for us. Soccer than the men's Nash. Right and they are still getting getting paid less than the men's national team so unfair the other thing that we have to really consider this is this is a little bit deeper kind of Maimi boring so so go. Kinda goes through a quick. Is this idea of original investment Men Because the sports world and the business world old have been always dominated started up before men by men they have had this original investment and essentially essentially what you see is that compounding effect of men's original investment and when when it it's literally like you know the Warren Buffett theory men have been in the game longer so they're reaping so many more return week. Women Only started invest we when we start investing in women recently so we just haven't gained gain enough time and enough enough momentum forward so what we need to do is we need to create policy and we need this women's national team to win their lawsuit so so that we can continue to breathe more life of possibility into the hearts and minds of all of us not just women by the way this is something that will also also affect our. Our boys are young men and our older men because there is something that happens to them to when they feel like they are only in control role in power than they are allowed to be there complete full self. I agree 'cause they're not allowed to vulnerable. They're not right you know like why do you think think men are always so aggressive in not all men. But most men's they're they're they're motion that they get straight to is aggression shit is anger and it's because they're not allowed to be as fully human as as US Women WanNa be right and so it's like we gotta figure out how to get back to being human so a long story short we have to find our own sense of how we were raised. And what kind of misogyny raised with so that we can start to unpack and uncover this stuff so when it does come up. We're not going. Oh well the men. The men makes the men make more. We're not like justifying mystifying. What's been happening because we've participated in it were saying? Oh Wow I am a responsible person and though it might not have been my fault it is now my responsibility to step up and to say the thing when it needs to be said and to do the thing when it needs to be done. That's great and it's possible and and it is with its to great effect. I also kind of came up through An industry if you will that has been created by men for men largely. And so I discovered as a grownup that I was primarily real happy just receive some crumbs from the table and and I saw that as well. Lucky me I got CROM. Some people aren't even in the room so discovering that our voices have power is really something and they do and I see it and I know you see this too with the girls but I see it in our daughters. That is where I'm beginning to see. As you mentioned earlier this residual effect of more women in leadership more women at the table. More women hired. I heard More women at the helm all of it. It's starting to have trickled down a fat to our girls that we didn't necessarily experience author age crumbs table generation to some degree. And so what in the world are we going to see in twenty years. Learning is exciting exciting hiding. But I like what you're saying because this isn't an area. I think where women can just sort of go well Guinot. It's going to be better in the next generation will just have what we have. We have a huge mantle on our shoulders here. We have a responsibility to have those conversations and to say those words Out Loud and to challenge the systems that prioritize some to the diminishing of others and and then to see that at work gets really. We're watching it in real time right now in our generations. It's exciting is so excited so really really hopeful. One of the best things in life is a good sounding board. I've said in a million times. 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They are giving you ten percent off your first month with the code for the love. Here's what you you do go to better help dot com slash for the love and use the code for the love to get the help you need that you want and you deserve right now back to our show and I want to talk for just a minute about wolf pack You know how I feel about it and we know that I love it and I talked about it quite a bit to my community. So they're familiar with it too but in it you know you gave us. You gave this community eight rules to essentially change the game these they're simple But profound approaches that every single person can cultivate in in our own. Lives this very minute. I told you that I immediately sent it to my daughter I just want you to pick one whichever one. You're filling really really like strong about today. I'd love for you just to talk through one of the rules that you handed us. And why do you think it matters right now and how you put that in the hands of people who are rounding out the year rounded out the decade. Yeah I think I I think that the making failure. Your fuel is one of the most important lessons that women can can that will extend and whatever they're doing longer that they will quit Much longer down the road. If it is in fact begging. They're going to quit. You Know I. I woke up in a culture on the women's national team that embraced failure. And on this idea of making a mistake right so sports is such a unique environment where you're actually only expected to be perfect a few times soccer specifically you're only supposed to be expected to be perfect. Pick a few times a game. You're supposed to be consistent and what that means is that you're GonNa make some mistakes and you're gonNA. You're not make mistakes but mistakes are part of the actual game so throw crab dealing dealing with the things that happen on an seeing them as a result of something and trying not to proceed down that same path to then have the same result right the definition of insanity like that's kind of the whole thing is like if you make a mistake. Just try not to do the same thing. Again that led to that mistake right but the thing about mistakes which is like the next level of mentality and mindset is to it as the most beautiful gift like. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah I get this. Because if you're if you're introspective or or you are trying to look inside of yourself herself. Sure your community he does. It's an opportunity for growth rates this. There's these things called growth mindset fixed mindset right and and all the best smartest people in the world have this growth mindset mentality which means Oh. I'm going to make mistakes and that's going to be a part of my right. It's not going to define me. It's it's like the the best people in my life bed I have ever met in that. I talked to constantly about this stuff they are. They're or not when when they look back at their life. They don't think Oh. Yeah well at one time when I did this great thing. They're like Oh yes that that time when I fell down that time when I fell down is what what makes me most proud about my mic. Being able to step up and get up right like that's what our minds are are on and then as is it as exports quote Unquote Leadership Philosophy leads me. It affects the way that I parent solely one of the most profound things that happened to me. Recently is Emma our youngest she has what's called Oscar Slaughters It's a little like Development Underneath Super painful right and I grew up in this big family where my form of mothering. A Ah for any kind of injury was always like Robson dirt on your end so instinctively. When Obama came home in started experiencing this pain I kind of went into that like wrote in instinct? Mothering the way that I was my third is what I did and I remember just feeling real bad about that and I remember are being Do moral inventory with with Glenn at the end of the night and saying to her listed like. I just don't feel like I did the right thing. I thought that I I think that I dislike just like totally bailed and was afraid to get close to our daughter and And she just she just said the Sweden I think she said they were GonNa make mistakes as parents and all we need to do is to talk to our kids about it until them that we're sorry and I'm sure Amer would love for you to to explain this and to policies and so okay so I stayed up all night are planning out all of the words and all of the things things that I'm going to say and You know the morning time come. She's up and she's like making a lunch for for school the next day and I go into it and I said am I just Wanna I just want to explain something that happened last night that I didn't feel really great about winning the whole thing and I said I'm just like I'm so sorry I don't want to be the kind of parent that doesn't reach for you and I want to be the parent that holds you. Even if I think you're faking it I wanna the parent that hold you and says that I'm here for you and that I love you and that I'm so sorry you're feeling this pain because it sucks at toll receipts Hurts and and of course you know. Oh she was ten at the time she's like okay. Run you're going to say that totally I think one of the most important portent ways in which we can teach our kids how to fail a well is to do it right in front of it and to examine time right in front of in real time. Yeah my Gosh. I wish that I haven't learned that. Lesson a million times out of experience but I have and it's true and you see that began to play out in the way that our kids learn to handle failure and learn to handle their own mistakes and learn to Sam. Sorry there's really no better way I mean that is the best example far Beyond our the talkie words about at all. It's just what they see as to what they hear US say. This is a question that I want to ask you before. We sort sort of. Wrap it up here like okay. So I'm thinking about myself in twenty ten the very beginning twenty ten and now here at the very end of twenty nineteen to like. I entered this decade while I just had three kids brand-new the fifteen year. Mark Mark. And then here at the end of got five kids we just hit the twenty five year. Everything's so have so. Many things are different in my life like my community has changed ancien. My leadership has changed and I would just love to hear you talk about when you sort of look over the last ten years of your life this decade and it so powerful Abbey to watch right now and you just everything about you tells me that you are strong and you're healthy and you're a happy and you are just thriving. I just everything about you right now just says thriving and so how would you talk about like this. Start to finish of this decade. I think at the beginning of this decade two thousand ten you you know I was thirty. I was recovering from a leg injury and really out to prove myself that on Wednesday the team that I was gonNA carry on into the future and I think what that also did that kind of goal that kind of mindset brought upon this fraud Complex shorter a So good in some ways that I felt like a fraud in all these other parts of my life because I wasn't the best in the world at I don't know paying my bills or or remember to do my laundry or cleaning cleaning my house like like there is. There is a price that gets paid. When you rise to the level that I was at for so many years and the only way I could figure you're out how to function or deal with it was through drugs and alcohol and drugs? I mean prescription drugs. After after I broke my leg in two thousand eight that became a mindset that I thought I could only perform if I had a painkiller yet like if I if I knew that had something at the end of the night to be able to let me sleep that you know you just fast forward that five years and it turns into something that I've had no control Hanley. I'm not well and it's just totally leap pulling My life so the first five years is were blessed with so much joy in terms of Mike Career career sure and then all secrecy in shame in my private life which is so bizarre. Is like such a such contrasting experiences. The in store now as as we're heading out this decade I find myself feeling and I said this Glennon a few few months ago. I said Babe you know what's so cool. She said why I said. I have nothing to be ashamed of so great I have no shame. Not Not an ounce of shame in me and of course I have made huge mistakes in my life and I've heard a lot of people but the way that I'm living in the in the Glennon like I think she lives inside an among her integrity. Yes there's there's probably no person on the planet that I know that it's more integrated than right wife Glennon and and I feel like I get just like all of that. All of the edges of that just keeps it to me and I just have found that Hidden it is giving me space to explore some of the stuff about myself. That is probably the reasons why I always experiencing all of that turmoil problems. I was afraid of myself as afraid of what I would find afraid of doing. This work and I was afraid presenting as the most strong athlete on the planet. I had some serious fear stuff going on and now I'm just like a little onion just slowly peeling back the Lakers and it's exciting. Because I keep learning new things and I keep on learning things like oh I thought that thing was the truth and it's like another no no that's just a story. It's totally true because it's not true all the way through this has been A. It's been a mind blowing decade and You know my wife is such She works harder other than any other person. I've ever met that also rubs off on me. I love to work workaholic. I love being out in the world. Love doing what I do. And more importantly importantly like the best thing that's happened to me in the last ten years is just getting these three children and and my wife and myself on this family. He level that I didn't know I had in me. I I I've never really done family before. It happened on the road. My whole life playing soccer in doing this stuff. So it's been and it's been great. It's been a real joy and Gosh I can't wait for the next decade had so joy yeah totally it. It's it's been enjoyed a watch too and and learn from and watch you just become a mom like boom just like that. That's how you had to learn and you didn't get a runway. The Mamas in a mom and yeah. Isn't it something to think about ten years from now lake. Like we'll both be empty nesters brandon. Let's just party let's Party let's set ourselves up for the next ten years Just just in a way that we want to be living are most full life. uh-huh you guys know. I'm a huge fan of war. Parker glasses they have the cutest frames quality top notch and to me. Maybe the best thing of all their glasses started just ninety five dollars that includes prescription lenses with anti-glare and anti scratch coatings. So if you need help picking your favorite favorite new glasses out. You just answer a few questions. If they've set up for you and Worby Parker will show you frames that are personalized to fit. Like your face ace and your style. If you have an Iphone X.. 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Try on Pairs. You'RE GONNA love him already. Know that you are an eye shirty to like worby Parker's for life. Uh Okay we're GONNA wrap it up here. These are three sort of rapid fire questions that I'm asking asking all the guests in the finishing strong series. Here's the first one and you probably have more than one so you could just pick. But WHO's an example to you Of what it means or would it even looks like to finish finish. Well finished strong a great question. I know this did. This is gonNA sound so bizarre but I look and I've been watching Hillary Clinton and I don't know where we're your folks fall on the political spectrum but I have just been watching her over the last couple of years since two thousand sixteen ecksteen. And if you have any clue what it's like to be famous like she gets the worst of the worst of it And what she has has done in terms of opening up doors for women to even be in the room in conversations. She's done maybe more than anybody else. I am so curious to see how her story finishes because she's had so much impact and I think that she she's doing it now. Behind closed doors in some ways is that the way that she's pivoting is very fascinating. It's just taking some time and being a grandparent in all the things but it's very very fascinating watching her because there might be no other woman inside our political structure at our government structure that has had more impact. Four women That's a great answer. I love that open ended. When here's the next question with the idea of a goal in mind be ah a really big win or even a small one? I don't really care but is there. Is there a thing of vet. You have inside your mind inside your thoughts That what what's your motivation to keep your foot on the gas when you haven't been in front of you that you're like I really want to see this through. Yeah it's interesting. I don't know I I don't know if it's just like a gift that I was born with or whatever but the thing that always kept me coming back to the the Game Day in and day out grueling days days that I didn't WanNa be there days if I did not WANNA laugh I didn't WanNa do sprint. Didn't want to be a practice. That was thirty five years old. I didn't WanNa do it anymore. And the thing that I would have been gifted with. Is this challenging notion that I don't know what my limit is until all I know and that is the reason why I can keep my foot on the gas is because I don't know how much time I have down here and we all have a finite time. That's the one thing we do now and I want to get as much done as possible. Because it's GonNa take not just me by the way it's GonNa Take D.. And the next the next iteration in the next iteration of the next generation to like really because progress is slow it just the way that it goes it has to start somewhere and uncommitted doing my part. Everybody else just has to be doing this. That's it that's it. Dropped out Mike. The last question and everybody gets this one in every series and honestly answered however you want it can like it can be big or small it can be really serious serious or not at all so the question is what is saving your life right now. It's interesting I think that I'm turning into a vegetarian Y OUR SON. He's he's sixteen years old and he has shown own need way in terms of it. Being not that big of a deal I have been a carnivore my whole life. I'm telling Alan you like I go to butcher shopping. That's the kind of neat that I got it. I go to the nicest steakhouses in the country. Like Desa kind of meat. Eater I abs- let's and And I have been really toying with the idea saw this net flicks documentary the game. The game changers the other day. And there's really something the thing about this longevity bit and you know I'm turning forty. I'M GONNA try to run a marathon next year doing a half marathon in a few weeks trying to do the body thing without this thing yet. a new chapter for my life. But I I really really think the thing that is saving my life right now truly is the idea of becoming. Vegetarian is becoming more true. It's not complete. They're not like I don't know if I can do dairy male or like butter Mayo and cheeser the things things like an hour Vegan Vegan. Vegetarian will think he trends to the. He's I just don't think I can ever give up those items uh-huh slow vegetarian baby Pasqua -tarian like Sushi is just like I don't know like that's something that saving my life and all the focus purpose for you in some way yes also my wife. My wife's as my life when she saved my life this student today better so we love her to. I love you both. I'm so happy that you're my friend and I'm so happy that I know you and thank you for being a really good friend to me in a lot of ways both seen and unseen it just that means so much to me and I don't forget that and that that matters and so thanks for all you're doing the world. I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate your friendship chip. I appreciate your honesty and your integrity. It's good for all of us and following and I'm listening and I'm right with you next to you. Thanks for being on the show today. Thank you so much jen. And guess what you taught me something new in terms of thanking somebody for being your friend like that really struck me so deeply like thank you you for being my friend. I am going to say that to all my friends right now. What am I saying to say? Okay everybody thank your friends for being your friends. That's a good way to sign sweet. It drew and I just love it so happy holidays. You love you so much and can we see thanks. Levy says she is literally the greatest Every since the word she's so dear. I hope you love that conversation. She's a great Guys thank you for you're listening thanks for subscribing. If you haven't already just it'll take you five seconds. Go subscribe to the PODCAST and you'll get every single week just in case you've ever missed him which I'm sure you have half moon. Covert agent hat maker DOT COM underneath the podcast Tab. Every single podcast we've ever recorded is over there including the transcript page which just obviously the full transcript plus links and pictures and bonus. Resources is such an amazing resource. That Amanda does a week in week out for you and so so You might want to go back and listen to a favorite. I do that sometimes because sometimes I'm so into the interview at the time I've got to go back and listen to to it as a listener to really absorb everything that I heard 'cause we have had so just a wealth of intelligence and and wisdom and goodness on this podcast so is one of the great joys of my life and so are you listeners. Thanks for listening every single week. Come back next week see then. That's it for today. Show hope you enjoyed this chat shirt subscribed to my mom's podcast and give it a thumbs up rating if you like it for the whole hat maker family. I hope you have a great week and see you next time.
Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach
"Open your hearts. Loosen your back. It's time for couples. Yeah this podcast where they can talk at exit. Vacationing with brunton cousin linked to messy situations and conscious uncoupling from netflix. To stabilize the hulu take six billion new jubal they you were eating therapy baby. Week took over one and a welcome to couples therapy. My name is andy and naomi. we're real life couple a real life couple of comedians on couples therapy in quarantine. We talked to a couple of people end today. We're doing a couple of different things in court date it is real coupled through a couple of different things in corbin except the live. Show the stepping outside of our house. Honest i'll tell you that's the one thing we're not doing that laugh. It was there was a it was like. i don't even wanna talk about this pandemic. i think there was a that's interesting. I definitely didn't think that was by laugh. I was tired of the joke and was like it wasn't like i was just like when it's funny because it's like thai a brittle housewife laugh at a at a dinner party made it like an off color joke and my brittle housewife laugh is no no no no but like the nineteen fifties brutal housewife like. Everything's going well. Our societies great. I really want to be a lawyer that feel better than what was the problem. I don't know what to do now. Able now what mabel. Mrs mabel has new friends and she misses them so we're going to see tomorrow's her third her third coffee klatch with peanut coffee klatches. Now it's called when like Klatch i now i don't know. Have you ever heard the phrase coffee panicked because my great. I used a word and i don't actually know. I thought it was just like people getting together to drink coffee and talk okay. Now he's going to look it up to see if it's really a thing well coffee klatch variants okay. So an informal social gathering at which coffee is served origin german. So i just wanted to. I just wanted to make sure that is clear. You're not using it. American phraseology because what we looked up your coffee klatch and its spelled k. a. f. f. e. k. l. eighty s c. h. Yes that's not in our par- lads no it says here. Dictionary dot com coffee klatch variant of the german coffee klatch a casual fund. God yeah well again. I think i've said this before. But i made the mistake of taking german in high school. We as opposed to a language that might help me. You know converse with other people in america would converse with anybody. No i think you know as a kid by parents. Roy take in case the germans takeover again right. You know what they're planning kit with you can get ahead. Yeah baby have those. Were doing drills. And a secret attic parents had built in our house to be silent. It didn't the first ago. It was like andy. Could you stop which able tomorrow. You'll you'll see eddie and peanut again are you. I'm dying over the trio idiot but they are really living in their retirement community in florida. Mabel eating peanut are deriving they are literally like what total age forty between the three of them. I think we talked about this last week. Yeah sorry everyone. Achuar brain rains have turned to mush in this month. Nine i'm out. I'm out of my mind. I'll tell you what i lasted. Eight months my brain was doing well for eight months and his mommy. I finally started to dedicate. I think i've been gone and only now just decided to lean into it. I was fighting it before now. I've just decided to not just be like. Why don't you re watch all of criminal minds. There are fifteen seasons at roughly twenty four episodes of season. Why not take me away. Agent hochner you know. Just watch their takeaway. Is that the kick guy the guy the guy. He was fired for giga somebody but he also created general. But it's also so wild to me that he's also greg from dharma and greg has been on television for over twenty years jen alphabet. Come on the show and spill the t about him tell us is kick anyone on the side of his arm and grabbed miss gibson. Kick anybody on the set of dr greg. Did you have to release his states to have to say this report in the news. Correct we in the news. This is hollywood secret. Oh my god damn a hot gossip rag podcast Sources say source close at my sources. Say what today's a great episode. Oh my god this episode. I just been waiting for it to come out in the world. It made me so happy. It is such an episode. you've already heard the dulcet. Tones of our wonderful amazing amazing guests. We are sitting here with the truest power couple. I've ever known glennon. Doyle and abby wambach. What's y'all trooper lennon. If you don't know is an activist and author of the books love warrior on warrior and her latest book untamed sold over a million copies. She's also the founder of together rising. An all women led nonprofit that raises money for women families and children in crisis. So she's doing good chance. She is good. Abby wambach is a two time olympic gold medalist fifa world cup champion and six time winner of the us soccer athlete of the year award. She's also the author of the book wolf. Pack and co founder of wolfpack endeavor a leadership training program for women. I mean glennon and eb changing the world. I said i was like aren't they. Don't you talknet newsreel. Like yes. I am enough game. I'm gonna write that book. Yes it's like so unreal. They're very they will literally they will lift your spirits and i hope you feel the energy that crackles between the four of us. I think it was genuinely enjoy talking to them. They're like you know we always have. I think we are very good at choosing guests for the show. I'll say that's quite people we want. Wanna talk to you. Who are decent human beings who are a delight decent human beings such a sounds so that so Such a low bar. No i'm not the world we live to be there beyond d said also. It was funny because this is one of them. Because i like them so much. I am met them already. But you hadn't. And this is one of those interviews. Andy embarrasses me andy. You got to win them over because we need them. And it was one of those where i was like and i just felt like you did really good sweetie. You're looking at me through. Your mom's is in this one. no. I think that's too harsh i would i would say was i was just. I was just very no no. I already told you in advance. But i was nervous. I was just. I just find myself normally. I'm not like i'm not as locked into one. Will the person think and this was one of them to like me. Yes there was one where i thought you were to talk about like a night. Crawler or gambit that night crawler kibet his faith. Hey where's that. Hey marvel marvel marvel stop talking. Get in touch with me. I want to write the gambit night. Crawler there's nothing. I love more than when someone tells a major corporation to get in touch with them. I mean i love it. it's like i found marvel. Why are you calling me or marvel tv. I'll write that. Tv show the adventures of gambling. Night crawler okay. Before we get into the vendors of gambling night crawler we want to get to the events of glennon and abbey. But before we do that we got a little bit of information. Okay you know we teasing this for two weeks now and it is here. Baby we have a link you can buy couples therapy quarantine crew shirts and my dream made reality. Ju blue t shirts. I am super excited about these t shirts and look. We've been talking about them forever. We've been teasing them on the show for a couple of weeks waiting for the t shirt company to make the link make the online store for us. And finally it's here. Www dot com press merged dot com slash collection slash couples. Therapy that podcast. That's a lot if you go to either instagram or twitter or the shy personal personal instagram. The link is there and you can link to t shirts is there. Compress merch dot com. But honestly we'll have the full link the full full. Grab your charts baby. I love this. This t shirt company. They make a lot of pittsburgh and they make a lot of pittsburgh t shirts and the shirts. The you have from them are very soft. Yes the hold up well in the wash and then you even my quarantine bodied if it will i know are you. What are you in there a small. i'm a small. Yeah so then. I would probably be medium so use that when you're designing your sizing us use our body. Look at our quarterback and just decide which you think you would purchase for sure. Okay the next thing again. We also have juba t shirts president quarantine crew t shirts speaking of the quarantine crew. That's what i was just like. Oh you're such a narc. Let us literally does not want to hear joy if you left you allow like when she tickles me. If we smooch mabel is a narc you guys. Everyone's day two pm on twitch we are live twitch dot tv slash couples. Therapy pod a beautiful our. I'm going to rant about what i hate. Andy is going to do a bit. Perhaps about the hall of presidents and disney world. Everyone is the audience. Though the point is we're having fun where lewis we're calling it group. We got t shirts. So join the fun okay. I think we've done enough. I think was one thing which is if you don't know what twitch is is basically youtube for live shows and you can it's free. You can go any browser. Just go to the link. It's not you don't pay anything you don't have to join anything. I guess you don't even have to sign up right unless you wanna like unless you wanna chat in group but not rush will love when people come together again. It's a free time. It's a beautiful. Our k now now now giving you giving you the best glennon abby roll. It turned it on. What do you mean him. We hit the record button and your energy went through the roof. You you woke up we. We just woke up a little while ago. Me was crawling on the ground. Like making the zombie imagery borough from the ring even worse. Look y'all not period started about twenty two minutes ago when that happened. Just like feel a cramp. And i was like all right hoodie. All right honey together rising. Think the live. We gotta get it. I gotta turn. It just means that you are a professional. Thank you so much. I am really really trying you guys. I'm so grateful to have you on the pod. this is just. It's what i've wanted ever since we met ed so to be able to unpack this now. You're meeting andy. Said to andy right before i said don't embarrass me you know. That's she. did she sat me down. She gave me a very stern talking about a half an hour. I love abby okay. Abby put up the pumps greed You feel hot if our voice. And i to andy get those conversations to me embarrass me in in not those exact words but i just wanted to give you a heads up this kind of conversations going to go and it's what you be prepared for it. It's just the way of marriage and we had one of those conversations this morning like five seconds. But if i were you i would just hold up a medal or two and i m yes. Unfortunately what you do on a soccer field applies not in marriage. While while not in marriage. Right so competitiveness and winning at all costs work. I actually thought about this morning i was. I was thinking about like obviously not anywhere. You're not netflix. not i. i'm like what is the the farthest away from an athlete of any kind same. Exactly me too. You know what i mean like. We're on the same page. Indoor kills me. I ride the exercise bike and our everyday play zelda breath of the while. That's true into andy. I do the elliptical an hour while i watch bravo no okay too but but i was thinking i'm like i had to recuse myself from competitive stuff because it it got so bad the competitive fervor though like the desire to crush my And i'm wondering like how do you how do you deal with that. Like feeling that has to be inside of you actually being an olympian athlete. I still have that in me all the time. Like to look for instance when gone and walking into the grocery store. I've got to like be one step ahead of her. Wanting by ourselves. i always looked at. I'm walking by myself chasing after her reports like people see us like the looks like what i've come to learn especially having children who also have a real competitiveness inside of them being a parent has allowed me to distance myself a little bit who from the ultimate desire of being the very best in the world and every single thing that i attempt to do right so like when we're playing monopoly or stopping of the sort with children. I see some of my weaknesses in that way. Come out because like i said i. It doesn't apply to rely life where marriage like there is no winning at marriage is just like you stay together. And that's how you. I think when remember last weekend when we had game night and we stopped playing the game. You were winning ahead. And you pouted for the entire. Rest of gay. Might be stopped playing a game that you were winning because finally finally our family found the game that i could win and their whole family just took their malls and went home. They were like. I don't play our. I'm like the first name. What game was it. Well listen fees ten. I bought it. Because i newly my pen and the kids just like they weren't really that into it because they weren't winning and so now we will probably never play face again. I will never have a chance at winning. I mean our family. We do like we play jeopardy games. Yeah we like word games. Like i like war. Let's just like. Let's just see if i chance if i can win this game. That is my kind of competitiveness. They're like what is it wasn't egypt. Was this online. What heading into soccer bowl. For many years you know ancient know i guess i get this like i'm resonating on this way. You're feeling feeling because it's just like look. I don't want to brag. But i could have been a letterman in high school quiz bowl. Could've i could've let her purposely. Said i don't want to because i didn't want to stand out. I don't want to be like oh you got what were you. What did you play lacrosse. What quiz bowl beating answered said. Let's not do fairly belykh way. 'cause like i don't have a competitive bone in my body because i look. I remember even like in gym class because pretty much. I've been the same since i was ten. So from ten to fourteen 'til other people grew it was like you must be sporty. And i was like i can't care act for the listener was we were saying. I don't have a competitive bone in my body i I turned. And i shook my head with a furrowed brow. Kate well then explain. Hey that comic. Get that thing that i didn't know that's jealousy doctor. Same by his jealousy just requires a bitterness. afterwards competition requires dedication before enduring. So many only and i just liked to be lazily bitter after something happens which is totally different than putting an effort which is what competence you right. Thank you for dancing act. I also think that there's a group of us that are marginalized. Unlike you andy. That might not know. Feels like to not get something. Had that moment of jealousy like matt lacosse team ball ball. Ball was quick. That's actually wwl. But although bul- bul- out game without event. Because i love playing basketball to combine basketball in jeopardy. Okay the tree actually glennon an abuser nutshell sense of competition in terms of like being like top lists like new york times bestseller list. Is there any sense. Do you have a feeling of competition from that area. I the healthy healthy desire to to to win those kinds of things. Mimi i but i also would have. I said what. Now i said that. I don't have a competitive in my body. But then when i think about that sort of thing that you're talking about or like when i think about politics i only crush everyone else right. So like my competitiveness in terms of politics can become almost homicide. So i i assume that that is son. Realm of i think that also has to do with. You're not necessarily. I know from from the looks of it. It looks like you're competing against the other new york times bestselling authors right. But i think what it more or less describes as like your willingness in need to be the amount of work that went into creating said whatever talking about. Can you turn that off episode like. It's it's really important. I think to get to the bottom of this because so many women were like. Oh i don't want to be competitive. You know because we haven't been handed the gift of ambition right. We haven't just been served at our whole lives and just kept feeding on it and feeding on. It is actually thinking about this on my run this morning. And it's like we actually have to keep reminding ourselves like being competitive or striving for new york times bestselling author. That is a place of mind. Like you want to always try to suggest yourself that you deserve to be there right and so when you might be excluded or left off of that near times bestselling list. That might be the same kind of food. You've been eating your whole life about being marjolein estate quiet. Don't be ambitious. And all that. Like i actually feel like folks women especially marginalized folks especially those who haven't had a work ten times harder to get that space. They have to remind themselves okay. Competitiveness is also fear of failure. Right so what happens. If i don't get on that list or what happens if i get off of that list. I think that women have to sell. It's easier to say. I'm not competitive. That i am competitive and try because then if i don't win i can just feel like i'm not competitor. Yes didn't fail my. Because like when i don't get it because there's a part of me and you've heard this person but there are parts of me like when i'm alone when i'm quiet i'm like i'm the best focus stand up and deserve the things sen when what's actually happening does not match that then it must be mean as opposed to like. Oh this is like a hard industry or it's so you know what i mean like where. It's like a lawless. So then i can't let myself want those things because if they don't happen it's me. You know what i mean and it's like it's like we always blame ourselves because it feels like blaming ourselves is easier to control than blaming a system home. Well that's that's what they've always said. When i grew up i'm sorry i don't mean to dominate this conversation but it's kind of important to me when i whenever a coach stood in front of a team of boys right and the coach said you know one of you out there is just like really slack in. You're not doing your part. Every boy in the locker room is like oh he's talking about somebody else. In the same coach goes in different locker room with full of girls and he says the exact same thing. Every girl in the autumn is thinking that coaches talking directly to me. So i think what you just said is really important men when they are given the same circumstance are like oh the system is really messed up women and indie. Sorry i don't mean to kay he understand get women are like oh it must be me must be me but for me you are the best yet. End up comedian while i was the are. It's just a wacked. Often there's a reason why glenn called you when you you showed up for on and and her campaign right now. We're so grateful. That was like the best three and a half to five minutes of my life. Corentin started so people. You've been getting so many people through believe i know they're so useful to you. Guys both bring together lovely people you know doing together together live and just like sort of your online community to like everyone. There is just like we are full of love we appreciate. You got the best messages on your graham. Thank you for your shining light. I was like okay bega funds. I mean just just sorry. I just looked at to see how we talked for about fifteen minutes. Just talking to you. Both seem very emotionally healthy. Very emotionally aware. Buoyant buoyant radiant. If i say this blowing smoke. I'm just like talking you like i feel lifted think i can. We be friends like in real life. I think like hanging out. I want to come. I wanna hang out with like game night and the dog. You know what i mean. You have a lovely. I think a cream couch that i would like to lay on. How how did you. How how if someone who is like perpetually well. I don't know. I have this weird like dialectic between optimism and just absolute i. What's worse than pessimism. I got not nile is. I haven't had a black pill myself. Not like not like that. A whatever the tail end of pessimism before you drop off onto read it fly so i'm just curious about how how're you how. How did you get there in that place. 'cause you both have been through shit. You know what i mean. It was like why we are. I mean we both have been through real real bad addiction. Almost detection right. We have been through versus marriages that made us understand what we didn't want. You know right right. So i think we do have a level of deep kind of you knew what it's relief that you see on our feet. There's no. There's no i really. There's no better human emotion than relief like you think. Some bad can happen. That it doesn't like that beats joy that relief giving so i think the buoyancy is relief pitched and it's so interesting because i think my relief is different than yours. I always because i'm hopeful Romantic i always felt like there. Was somebody out there that fit me and that would complement all the good and bad in me and what i wanted and that was glennon and so for me which is like a fulfilling of this self idea what i wanted and for you. You just had no didn't believe in any of this shit. But like i remember glen you close together live with this excerpt sort of kind of touching on untamed and sort of the process of you talked about. I remember this distinctly seeing abby and being like oh right and that being such a powerful moment for you. But i've always wanted to know what avary side of that was. I mean especially at the reason. Why i say that because it's very surprising to hear that glennon didn't believe initiate would. She was having an old moment seeing someone. And then you're the you're the romantic out. You have that feeling or was it like how how did actually get from. Oh like let's get a coffee. Okay yeah so let me set the stage. We'll actually use at this stage to your point to your moment. Okay well we were at a rating name it was a convention librarians or something. So we were at a table with a bunch of other writers. Just sitting much writer with writers and an n. Abby walked in the door and everybody just turned to stare because it was lake it was a bunch of writers like a nerdy little party and abby lee and like the captain of the lacrosse team walked in confusing lake. He was lost or she was lost. The mocking jay had arrived wiz bowl party so and i just had a very very strange reaction. I had one of these frigging moments at his humiliating for me to talk about. Because i never believed in romantic love the moment of my life. Now i have this love it for site story that i have to keep telling you guys look glennon space when she says love for site as bitten to a lemon is a bit because listen. If i used on this podcast i would've stocked up. But i actually think that's telling with because i didn't have i had never truly experienced romantic love and it was kind of painful for me to hear stories about being not like i. It was much easier for me to be like. That's not real Then to be like. Oh i have not. I have settled for something that is not that great so i actually stood up through my arms out in a very incredibly awkward way. That my family's still replays now. Whenever they want to humiliate she stood up and and put her arms as wide and instruct out as possible. and she's the only person that stands out in this table of twenty twenty people right and she is happens to be on the opposite side of the table and this is a very long wide table. Don't what what does one do when they walk into a room and one person stands up and opens her arms. Like you need to give them a hug. But there's this huge watts of people around it and then vows it hold on hold on to walk in between and so it made it made for moen for me because it's like oh shit i gotta go over there. But i can't like jump over this table so it's kind of a tight rooms on like steffi's behind all the and she still like this and then you know she. She gets a little bit nervous and doesn't abuse she she kind of his naomi and andy. I was thinking i'm stuck. I'm standing unstuck like real. Like maybe if i bow. She'll think this is just something weird that writers do they like when people walk in. Like how the hell else am. I going to get back to my chair. So i started step. I'm like going to get there quick. Because it's going to be real awkward and it's it's probably like thirty secondly we get over to each other and we she asked said. Can i hug you. And i'm like well that's why i'm here. That's why came all this way so we hugged we. Embrace in my seat was a few seats away from hers in. I remember feeling like the whole dinner. Like that was weird. That's what everyone thought and also and also like why do i wanna be sitting right next to her What's going on. And i remember. Having this conversation with children's author he just wrote a written a children's book and be and just like whatever the heck he was saying and just like my energy and focus was totally on glennon and afterwards we had to go get on stage to go like publicize are books like all the librarians in the country. We're gonna either purchase your book or not after this moment and for the three minute. Walk from that room to the stage. The dais Unloaded my whole life story. At the time i had just gotten a dui. I didn't know if i was going to include it in memoir that. I had yet to finish that was on deadline for telling her all stuff and she just like put her hand on my arm and it was like like a lightning switch. Like something happened. I was like what is happening. And then the whole time. I and then she got up to talk. And you've you've seen her action. I know and it was like i was crying and laughing and also like this is person i've ever heard speak words ever and one of my friends who was helping me out. She she happened to be in the audience at that day and she went up to glennon unbeknownst to me afterwards and she said. I don't know what's happening here but something is happening. And i need to get your information. Because i that abby means you and i don't know what that means. I don't know why. I'm saying this. But i was like. Here's all my information from my phone. See what else. And so glenn emailed me and i didn't know any of this was happening. I didn't know who my my friend who's helping me work out. You know in the world this. My assistant didn't know this. Two days later she emailed me 'cause glennon emailed jordan in jordan. Emailed me an email from glenn is all she wrote and you guys. A lot of people don't know is we didn't see each other so we were. We were in that room together right and then we after that just fell completely on emails and eventual goal hauls. But we didn't see each other again until we had both completely dismantled. Our lives to go can win. Never in the same room okay. So we made all of our decisions. We i told. Craig craig move dow. We'd the whole thing and we had never been in a room alone together. Ever okay was how tan yes. That's how lesbians do i know you. I see that me back so when okay. I have thirty station. It's always true. I wanna go back. I want to come back to this. But i wanna go back to something you guys both said about real feeling that relief. And i'm wondering if it's what i think about the relief was it that there was some relief. There was a script written for you. And you kind of just following with that was then you realize a way i don't have to do this. I don't have to like whatever the 'cause you're going to hear from virginia and abby. You're from rochester stamps. At new york. Yeah did good. Both suburban areas kind of. yeah. I think the suburbs. I think like people just following like like myself. This is the same kind of journey similar that i had. I was falling whatever the script my parents had for me. It wasn't a bad script but it wasn't really what i wanted and it took me a long time to realize that's not what i wanted and when i finally broke out of it it was like i became myself at that whole thing. You don't have to and it shorter. Yeah but like. I identify with you both because i'm like oh i like i get that moment of relief. That kind of like existential becoming no. That's that's that's me babe and and also was just this idea of you know as a writer and on the edges fully my whole life. I was just going to be trying to make things magic. Like i was and that was my as a willing life to be magical in. That's every sentence of audible born ship to work with gonna make this and so didn't have life calm and surprise me like i thought i thought i was control of making things as good as they possibly could and In my love life was just going to be good enough enough and so to have life at forty. How old was i forty two years. Old thirty yeah whatever. Come in and surprise you at forty just such such a relief to israel. And i have this thing by the way it's not shiny unicorns all the time you know like we have our shit that i don't i don't constantly wonder if life is somewhere else anymore Because i think that you spent so much of your time trying to make your life magic and you were missing the whole thing in that in that. It's not making life magic. It's knowing that you are magic like you were the magic and that is is it magic after around them. Do you see why. Have to be around because i need to be reminded. It's very william hill up. Hold on for one more day. That's the energy. I'm getting from him at all times. Like stay strong. Stay sober say present and i needed upper register now okay. You said y'all waiver each other for like a full as you went into your lives but then there's the question when you finally got together meaning in the same place. Was it everything you hoped. Or whether there's an rowing pains actually let s discuss this is where abby melts and tries to pretend she doesn't exist because she can't stand talking about sex this i don't even know if she was specifically talking. No i understand because know happy. I talk a lot on this podcast about being sex. Negative positive six negative. I just think it's too moist. Could fully understand the negative my whole life like life. I've been like what is this what kissing like. Let's put our toes in each other's mouths like i don't get any like i don't get it and i always felt lake sex with elegant oil. Change a relationship like you. Just keep doing it so that you don't have problems because they tell you you'll have problems if you don't do it so and it always seemed like a big chore and an act. I was acting like oh. This is where i'm supposed to make a noise and ice. I'm supposed to arch that dance. That's enough good descriptors on blue. Sell to answer a question. You won't make abby sad. I when we finally got together. I flew from florida to la. She was in l. a. And it was the night that she was going to get this award from the sp's sp's workers of the sport and outright and so it was a big night and we had been what six months right. We haven't seen each other for six months but we had gone through this whole thing of just deciding to be together and fly across the country to go into a hotel to see her for the first time and it was the most nerve wracking. I mean i could. I was notch. Like i was terrified. Because what if after all of this. And plus i have never kissed a girl before me. Yes that was gonna be. My other question is you. Is the game changer. Yeah yeah yes so you know. It could have gone any way but it did go a very good way. Excellent way in a relief way. I was like oh i get what the big idea is. I get what the big deal i remember you saying that you on the show unstaged. No sex could be good. We've it was that and the show because we did one in detroit where you. That's what you anti-lien uncle and betty came to the show and armies relatives. Yes they met briefly or maybe in the hallway listener the lesson. that's accurate. Uncle was like well. I'm very happy. They found each other. And and i was like. Oh you're like oh you heard about eggs now. you're uncomfortable. Glad they found each other. We'll take it. I know uncle eddie. Lovely just proof. It was proof that glennon. She's the her whole life. She's like sex was work and trying and bending its like all maybe that you just game and you just didn't even have the the the idea that that could be even part of your life. You're welcome. I figured out what there's this path they tell you to do. And for me it was like data sky and be with this guy. This guy you know. And then i was like we. There's other options better fit for me. I mean that's the like real. I was gonna say difficulty but beyond that violence of living in such a homophobic and misogynistic culture. That we live in is that it obscures. It reduces the possibilities of our lives down to this for the listeners. I'm putting my hand can really like existence is like my hands. My hands are as wide apart as glenn with years. That's really like what are possibilities are but like it's both. I think like. I think a lot of people i don't know i want to i. If i'm being generous. I think a lot of people are just have a lot of shit to do so they don't have time to think through the existential posssibility but also if i'm not being generous people lazy and all i just do this. I just marry this guy and then we we have. We have some kids. And then that's it. And i sit in a barcalounger. True was so lazy. Let's do some work here. It's worth it like people. Ask me all the time like gosh. You're so successful and you're so happy not only get that i'm like is work. It's every every day it's work you're you're you're not just getting oil changes but like you're working out and you're talking and you're like asking in your you know what's the word when each get something compromise like. That's a new player. That was perfect. You know what. I mean when something happens. That is true shifts kiss. What's it called when we both get something but like it's so difficult i mean. Was it just that like any that you had that kind of like. You're like oh right. This script was written by like a bunch of crumbs. I'm going to write my own. Script was at fatty piff. Me that kind of just like three off the page. Well i feel like i had been experiencing that if in different areas of my life that had an apply it to my personal life yet so lake my inside of religion like i have been asked someone. The internet was like christian blogger or christian. And i was like. I remember you talking about that so i didn't know if religion with a party was is i mean foget is right so iraq me a very long time to to be inside of the kind of the religious structures i was raised in an realize. Okay i think that. I've been put into the small lane of what faith is supposed to look like. Actually faith is a much much much wider. Like faking nothing do with religion and the religion was the small. Lena was going. So i had over time. That engender ideas of what girls are supposed to be like and what we can actually be like and political ideas of leg would an american patriotism looks like and what they tell us it is and what it actually can be like all of these ideas of little lanes. I've been put a put in that. I felt more expensive than That i had to kind of get outside of the cultural ideas in each of those things to feel at home. So behind of when when i you know when i first wanted abby and loved abby i think of it as the first time i ever wanted and loved anyone beyond the people i had been expected to love. Wrote that for me was the clue tying it to the other things like. Oh wait maybe in order for me to find a love that i can feel at home in to go beyond what i've been conditioned to want in love right richard dry so it felt more like just another on taming is what we would call it like just another breaking free from that existing structure just finally in my own life. I've just these ideas of religion gender. It was like oh my god. It's now it's okay while i let that sink. We're gonna take a quick break. Because i realized we've just been talking for nine hundred years. We had to take a quick break. We'll be back after this. Hey y'all breaking into the show very quickly just give you three pieces of information if you would like to support the show. There are a couple of different ways. One of them is our patriots. Now naomi i love doing this we We just sit on the couch. And i really dig in to our feelings. We dig into our feelings. We dig into our lives. We are really minding our love for content. If you're into that you can go to patriotdepot dot com slash couples therapy pod and for five dollars you get two bonus episodes a month and tons more bonus content. The other way you can help us out is little. We've got awesome t shirts. Don't we it. Hey look you know me you know in my little indie rock hard. All i ever wanted was cool t-shirt and we finally got him now. We got him got him. We got the the cool new design a logo. And we've got got a miss a bitch t shirts yes indeed and now if you want to help us out without spending a dime you know what you're going to rate the show subscribe to the show review the show handy down on costs no money take two minutes and it really does help us out. Yeah if you go to apple podcasts. And do that it's It's actually a huge help to subscribe to the show so obviously review it positively. Oh like i'm not asking for like seriously back so you could ask be supportive. That would be great. Yes we have voids inside us. Yeah endless voids that need positive reinforcement absolutely or. Let's fill that void by getting back to the show and we're back now. Glennon is obviously going through this. And she's like i m untamed. But i think it's very. I say that. I would assume people would think about you given that you were an athlete and you were kind of like you know you've got like wolf. Pack mentality that you weren't somebody who was stuck a lane but did you feel like you work in some ways. Yes so i think bit there are parts of who i am and who. I have become as a as an athlete that for instance. It's kind of how wolf pack book that i wrote kinda got started. I would do something and glennon would be like. Why don't you do that. And i don't know that's just what i do like. I made a mistake. And i'm like i'm going to try to use it. Make it better. The way that i've talked to the kids and try to like influence than in the way that they can like cheer on their teammates. You know and some of these things. Some of these ways in which women especially are condition to operate and behave. I kind of beat out of myself over the thirty year career that it had on the sports field and in terms of translation into my personal life. That is where for me. The evolution has i mean truly. I feel like i started to live for the first time when glen and i met right so i'm like a month sober when we when we first met. I feel like okay. No major changes my god right and yeah and so now as you know four and a half years sober. It's like oh. I had so many parts of my professional life and some of my personal life that like worked so well in terms of like this one taming the way that we see the world the way that we operate but i too am still so conditioned right like even though we learn we learn a lesson. Don't you feel like you keep having to relearn the same damn thing over and over and over and over again. No i deserve. I deserve this. I earned this i. I wasn't giving this earned this. I wasn't giving us so frustrating so watching blending go through the process of an what makes her so magic and special is that glennon can take such a complicated philosophical idea and make it understandable for the rest of us. You know the idea of of us having been taught lessons and born in a cage cages. That we didn't choose to be right. That power has put us women marginalized folks into these cages and into these boxes right so that they can keep power and i think that it's every person's individual desire and need to try to find the keys for themselves to unlock and to to move forward so i had some stuff that i had already like figured out but my personal life. She just helped me evolve and continues to do so. You know like. I interrupt people last. I get that that is real. That is a journey. I went on. I have been like you have to let him finish. We have just a little. We have a little touch. We do undertake. Tell us about the touch. Because i have tried everything and hatch. She seems she feels is too aggressive. And like canot rowing okay. Because the touch that we're talking about is under table. Molly squeeze squeeze that is so freaking passive aggressive aggressive. Yes this is why this is couples. Therapy help us do more of like a pressurized gone lay. Yes so like. I don't have the i just kind of lean my knee into his out just a little in a little tap. It does make me aware. Sometimes she's right. She's not always right sometimes. She's wrong about whether i need to stop or not. Sometimes i'll say this though. I think the knee it says more about naomi than it says about me. It says about her being uncomfortable in a certain moment both uncomfortable. Because she's right. Thank you glendon. Because she's oprah's book club. Said i was right so yes. I'm right now. i'm team naomi in general interrupting. I don't know. I have such a problem with interrupting of any kind like i experience it as almost like a violent traumatic. It's it's traumatic to me like with someone speaking. I think words are so important to me. People showing themselves are so important to me that when someone cut someone off. If is deeply to me i wonder if it is also a gender thing where it is like to interrupt and they're supposed to like put their ideas forth and there's this there's like when it's red through like a gender glands it's like no you're now erasing. I'm speaking as a woman. You're now a racing when i'm trying to say no. No i'm sorry you're like like i am. I m my my ideas more important when for meat like just personally experiencing it. My brain is so like flighty. I interrupt because like if i don't the ideas gone and i'm so excited as excited. He gets mike. What about this. And then i don't mean it to be a kind of like my ideas better than your idea. It's bat it's. I'm so excited about this idea. If i don't say it. My brain is so lake. See you. I see. I see so deeply right now so excited to talk about like okay. So is the art of conversation is conversation about saying every single because sometimes you have to let go of an idea to go with the flow of conversation as you. You actually might not be able to say every single thing because right so so it's flow and you have to surrender to it like there might be two moments where you're like damn. I just didn't get to say that thing and and now we have to move on and now we have a. We have an eleven year old. Who hasn't figured this out yet. So we will be talking about something right we will be talking about a tv show and then the conversation goes on and twenty seven minutes later. She finally finds her time to talk and she goes back and talks about the tv show because she has been holding that thought seven and has missed the entire rest of the conversation. Because she hasn't learned the surrender. Part low competitiveness probably steers me wrong. We'll i wondered if i should give stamps index cards so that like when she has a like the thing she needs to say. But it's other people's turn she can write the pinged out book he's a. He's a notebook for the thoughts. And then you can like put any a tweet. It's not a conversation at the tweet. Just put it out there and it's actually when you talk about the eleven year old. I wanted to ask abby. Had you had experience parenting at all before you and glennon got together because you two kids or three. We have three three. Yes okay so like i mean my god children just show up all of a sudden you have to like them in when i call it i have twenty something nieces and nephews so i have experience with children but not in parenting that a different ballgame altogether And what's been so unique about this is Their dad clinton's x. crag he gave me one of the best gifts that a person can give and he gave the these children permission to love me right the way that he acted with the way that he responded to the divorce and that has allowed me to step into what is oftentimes a much more difficult situation to create the relationships with these children that there are times when i cannot believe that i did not birth them myself. The amount of love and patience takes and frustration. You feel and confusion. And the amount of questions you get asked is bearable. It is one word to describe parenting on breaking beds unbearable. But you somehow do you go to sleep when you wake up and it feels unbearable. Say that you are able to do it. I don't know how parents can't you. What it is this same and the amount of togetherness the just given up answering questions. Did you said google just google. Because they're holding their phones in their hands and they're like what time is that then. You have a phone in your hand that shows you the time. It's above all of your snapchat and stuff at that from me. I'm like i of highlight depending on the kindness of strangers. I walk into grocery store. I'm like where me we're about like so they did get that from me. I never say that. Because i'm a good spouse. I feel like i guess. I wondered because i've always found changing found not apparent all imagine changing and being a parent to be in opposition. Because you have to imagine you have to in some way. Be this steady rock for kids right and give them this sense of. Everything's okay and we're going to do it. And so i look for. I don't. I've never wanted to be a parent because i think i'm like a little too unstable amy I i don't know. I mean i think that the one beautiful thing that glennon has taught me about that is too many parents. I think raise their children to be non human right like we are ever changing and we're constantly talking about the things that we're working on in the inner worlds that were trying to solve the questions that we're trying to solve on a daily basis and so our kids literally see us change all the time because we're talking about it and were experiencing it until we're actually teaching them how to be human because stability is false. I mean it just is like there are no stable people and and being the seekers that we are about creating the most beautiful and true life that we can imagine. I think that we are teaching our kids that they don't have to be steady state. They don't they don't have to have the same experience every day. Yes routine is good. We thrive in routine and that is in many ways. Something we'd teach them. But one of the strongest elements. I think of this family is that like evolving and getting better and learning and teaching and growing is part of the family and i feel like that idea is just another lane that like somebody showed you. That was like this is what a mother looks like. This mother pretends like like. I bought that for the first kid. And the first is. God is real and hubbard israel. After we die we go to heaven. What's happened just believe in you know. Everything's fine daddy will never get divorced. And and where's your fish. I don't know all things. Santa claus yes. Santa claus is that swore to god to them for twelve years at that was just like the just all lies and lies and lies lake so i just i feel not that is not important anymore now that that providing some idea that a mother is someone who is hidden her her fear and her ambition her weirdness and her you know all of that. I don't believe that anymore at all. I think that they what we are doing is raising people who are like on this train bound for humanness right. No matter what we do to our perfect we present ourselves they are going to in fact be human and if we showed them how to actually be human. Then they're gonna wake up one day and feel like we all feel which is that. We're doing it wrong because our parents never showed us with the full spectrum of humanity. Looks like i felt like we were supposed to be in this little wing right. So okay okay. There are three white children that high of hope for and in your house. The only thing your house to me is like the one. Good thing florida. I i stay in the house sunday. I'm gonna fly in. I'm going to stay in the house and feel any naming. Our kids are actually japanese. Half japanese so they aren. Yeah so wait so only. Two of us are white Okay as it should be outnumbered but it is interesting that like there is. I feel like as a culture. We are going through this kind of like. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I don't know why. I don't know what's happening. Talk about politics on the show. So i won't go into wide but i think as it culture we go through the spasm kind of like of this realization. There are these forces that are like no. We have to follow the script. Path that one path that's been written for us. That's been Dugout what do you do with path. You build a path. who Where and the rest of us are realizing wait. That path is meaningless. That there's a very drained of whether you are someone of faith or someone who is just seeking something larger right whether it's a religion like there is something that's been drained out of all of our lives and we're trying to recapture that we don't know what the next thing is. But we know that. It's missing and i do think it's i think it's interesting that you both that the moment of of you coming into yourselves was kind of like that moment of finding that there. Is this larger something out there and then just like trying to write what that is literally right. It truly literally also reading it for yourself. I mean it's good You know. I'm just going to take a hard hard turn. Abby henny i've gained the covid nineteen all right. I'm in this pandemic honey. And i don't know what to do with myself. You you mentioned earlier and it stuck in mccraw a my brain crow. You were running this morning you know. And obviously you've been exercise that you'd active athletes and were like three. But have you ever worked with anybody. Who just really can't can't move their body. What would you say the. I get free training. You're telling me. I'm having a conversation with a goddamn olympia and i'm not going to get a hot up. I think one of the most important things to know about me from this perspective. And this question is i. Don't think you even i bet you that i dislike working out more than you. I remember. you said you didn't like it and that really made me feel good. Listen to me every single day. Really i can't understand why this olympia. Who ran thousands of miles throughout. Her career has to do this. I didn't this body build up enough goodwill not to do anything ever again. That's what i kind of thought in two years in my retirement. I just didn't feel that great and my body didn't feel that great. And so i decided i was going to start working out again and those early days. Where some of my darkest they were. She was so sad. I was so upset. I couldn't believe how hard it was. And i promised myself one thing and this is for the first year that i was going to do something that would move my body for thirty minutes no matter what that movement was if it was walking it was walking if it was jogging if it was jogging and it was true like we would be in airports and he'd be like while i locked for the half hour like i walked in the airport. It was just mainly because a lot of what i have come to understand is what it does is not even mostly for the way that my body feels. It's for the way that my spirit feels about myself because truly it's the hardest thing that i have to do during the day and is the thing that gives me the most self esteem out of anything that i can accomplish in a single day knowing that and then applying that are two totally different things so trying to create very small at first goals about what it means right and and how to get there right so gone. Walk right in so commit to your goals. Never outcome-based which i think is so important. I'm gonna lose. No i mean you wanted to leave that you are never like i'm gonna lose. This was always gonna move. Wanna walk for thirty days right thirty days. Promise yourself you're gonna do something some movement for thirty minutes every day. Give yourself one day off a week so that can be yoga in your in your living room. That could be going for a thirty minute. Walk outside and then after the next month after that you reevaluate. Could i increase my speed to speed walk. Could i increase my my speed to very slow job. Plus the internet and making video of naomi speed. Lucky i mean just for that. Because this is what's happened is over quarantine you and millions of people right have talked themselves into it. This is the narrative you have in your mind. I have not been able to do anything. And i have gained some weight. You called it. The coordinate limiting which is free money. You've got gotta get your nineteen. Yeah good but the truth is and this is a hard truth for a lot of people to really hear. You had thirty minutes every day. God does she know. I'm no no no no no totally in your mind. We've got a we have to re evaluate how we're spending our day to go on a thirty minute walk. We can all do that. Yeah and i'm sorry that felt like a shame. Oh no no no no no did not to give me a talking show dante. No it didn't and it's also like i think in a way though it's like when it comes to all that kind of stuff you can't say anything to shame me that i'm not already shaming myself right. Which is exactly what you're saying when you're like. Oh it makes me feel the best about me. Because i think that's where i met at this point where i'm like. I am so over hating my body. You know what i mean. I'm like okay. I'm done with this. Which means okay now. I am ready to actually do it. Because you've got that. Sometimes you have to feel like i would say to me. He's like when when you feel bad you'll change when you feel mad enough when it feels bad enough you'll fix them right when the inside of your brain is screaming at you. Yeah please like when. I'm sitting on the couch for too long and my bridge. Just get the fuck up. Just get off right. And i think that's where i met with this. That's on like mccamley. You ally like got thirty minutes. And i need to. You know. I was always using the fact the also. It's the same thing though in florida. I'm like so fucking hot and it was like on fire and stuff where i was like. I can't get out during the day but honey we've got that nice dusk time you know six. Pm is the time now. I can't i can't make you can do it. It's just a matter of training your brain again like for me. It took a while right. I was complaining a lot. It was hard. And i have got myself into a place where i hate it still but i'm doing it anyway. Yeah and. I'm only doing it. Because i want to feel good about myself and i want to go along. I want to feel good about myself. Yes and this is for me what has helped and also knew me. You can't do the mask. You cannot do the thing that you least want to do in the day and that it ruins your life because you would but then that means i have to wake up early. No don't wake up early. You just have to do it. I because if you if you're if you're spending your whole day dreading the thing then everyday sucks so you've got a g john. I do the worst big bird. Worst thing first thing thing. Yeah eat the frog broad. If if there's been one theme throughout this conversation is the struggle against a nursia pulling out themes i haven't advanced degree fans baseline explain that to me every whether it's existential inertia whether it is aerobic inertia what i like this this we all get stuck in these states right and we whether it is because we think that that's what we're supposed to be in or because like it's like very comfy on that couch and orbited the los angeles is flow of like broken glass broken down strip malls everywhere. Whatever that a nur- show is you get stuck in it and the life in some way not to get too philosophical but it is like struggling against that russia right. Live is to find a way to strike against that inertia and to like even if you don't ever get there it's it's the struggle right. It's struggle as the thing. Eleven would tell me if you can shrink time between doing the thing that you know to do. Don't say you're abbas between the knowing in the doing like when you have to do the because the space between the knowing and the doing is misery yes right and we all push that space as long as possible which is why we're all miserable. It's like the moment and the catholic. I gotta get up and then you just miserable for the next three hours because you don't get up and like any writing or any writing for i'm like oh i need to do it. I feel like shit. And then when i finally sit down and do it was the happiest i ever and maybe this is another version of relief when i actually finished the writing. Even if he's like the draft one does the act of doing it. I'm like yeah. Ooh we live. And how long did you spend hours crafting emails to people explaining to them. Why i can't write the thing. They want me to write but it will take me hours to write the email. It's getting me out. It would have been easier for me straight to think. Oh my god. I'm not in my head so violently that i could break my neck watching and it's so interesting because i have been a procrastinator and watching glennon live for the last four and a half years. I watched her do the thing. I do it in shrinking that time between knowing and the doing. And i've seen it and i've seen how happy it makes her and i for a long time. Oh my god. I wish i could do that. And then i just started doing it where i would shrink the time and i work out in the morning now. Life is weird. But i'm happier. Been good with like even people when you're when you're talking to someone and you just don't like what they're saying and you don't like their vibe and in your head you're like i don't like this but it's like we're used to not i mean how great is it. I'm just always like i don't like this. I don't like what you're saying. It's it's an telling you work really. Yes it's awkward and weird you make. It's weird progress. That never happens when you are allergic to making anything up. What she says the thing that that everybody thinks that nobody says so. It makes might make a moment. Awkward makes the entirety of whatever doing so much better and unburdening on boring. Yes because the conversation is another late over. It was supposed to see this. Sounds like something. We're not supposed to someone we're not supposed to but then also you adjust things then things get interesting love. Your noise noises was like chipmunks. Oh my guy andy. don't use love this love. Yeah look at me. I know you're having my. I see you rushdie hand. Under shany's i'd take him just like i'm taking it in abbey and glennon thank you so much for coming and talking to us share love and light and hot tips. We just adore you. I am so excited to meet you. I need to be incredible because of because of your podcast. Also naomi Even more delightful than i thought so we have high anybody that is going to be partnered with naomi and you've met them and exceeded them allow and oh my god. I love you guys so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. You guys are awesome you guys. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week.
Movie Theater Return
"Class Two thousand twenty. We know things have been super weird lately. You were robbed of a graduation ceremony, so we found some people to write you Clinton speeches. John Legend he's a Hillary Clinton. She's into over twenty of your favorites from Dj, College Coach K. Abby Wambach two Alsi. They're all here to give you the wisdom that we could all use right now. Tune in I. Heart Radio New podcast commencement speeches are out now on iheartradio. APP or wherever you get your podcast. Own. Janssen he brown? This story is for you because you love you know movies. Okay? We'll. Movies in White. That order. Will. Be, we'll movie theaters J. be a thing of the past is the question movie studios have been offering some of their new releases through streaming services during the coronavirus pandemic, and it seems most people really really like being able to watch new movies at. Could I ask this question, guys? What does that mean streaming? What exactly what? When you watch it on Netflix. Natalie, Lou. Yes prime. How do the movies economically make money versus going to the theater? Do they get paid when they bite? They bother movie at home so as selling movies. Now you have to buy the movie. We can rent it or buy it at home. Yeah, and then you pay for the services well, plus some of these theaters have. Real estate they gotTa Cover Your Twenty One. Thirty five theaters. That's hard to fill that back up when we come back over this, but I love going to. Say It's not as saying that drive INS might get a little bit more than. Ever heard that'd be cool. Yeah, I'm GonNa Drive in movie off hail. You. Join? Back Yeah. Well. We'll have more of the every morning show and some trending stories coming up at thirty three minutes after the hour right after this you're listening to. Morning Show. Here's something. Good is a new show from the Seneca Women Podcast, network and iheartradio. Each day we aspire to bring you the good news. The silver lining the glass half full because there is good happening the world everywhere every day. We just need to look for and share it. Here's something good. A short daily show that offers positive stories, helpful suggestions and shared experiences to inform and inspire you every day. Listen to hear something good on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows subscribe now.
Abby Wambach and Glennon Doyle
"Hey. It's Sarah that's what she said was Sarah. Spain is presented by coors light the beer made to chill celebrate responsibly coors brewing company. Golden. Colorado. Don't forget to check out laughter permitted with Julie Foudy. She kicked off season for with Academy Award winner, Natalie Portman, and I have a feeling a lot more big name guests are going to be on the way Julie, Natalie, and a host of other powerful women are part of the ownership group of Angel. City F C, which is the newest NWS soccer league franchise find laughter permitted wherever you get your podcast. It was a great conversation that's what she said. That's what she said. That's what she said what she says that's what she said. Welcome to that's what she said conversations with interesting people from the world of sports, music comedy and more talking about their lives, careers, successes, and failures my guest this week are the amazing incredible inspiring, brilliant, adorable, successful, bad as powerful, funny smart legendary Wonderful Life goals bff goals, marriage goals Abby Wambach in. glennon doyle. They join me for a panel at this year's virtual ESPN W summit, which was a huge success. By the way. If missed any of it, you want to check out the magic. It can be viewed in its entirety online. You can select which panels you're. Interested in, go check it out We talked about so many things and really got to the heart of some of the biggest challenges and opportunities we face as a society in how to approach them. Both of these women are incredibly inspirational in the ways that they take ideas and things they care about and put them into action. You might remember Glen was on this podcast not long ago talking about her new book untamed If you miss it definitely go back and listen to that when it was amazing and if you haven't read the book, What Are you doing? Order it immediately, and if you were to write actually she's doing signed copies at select indie bookstores to help support them during Kovic off you check out her instagram. You can find the Post Find Bookstore store near you or one that will ship one to you, and you can get a signed copy. You guys are going to love this conversation. Enjoy. That's what she said these days everything is go go go. It's nothing but nonstop hustle all the time work friends family a million pressing social issues an expectation to be on twenty, four seven sometimes you just need a moment to turn off and hit reset. That's when you reach for cores light it's made to chill coors light wants you to know that. No matter what sport is on this Fall Saturdays? 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I am so excited for the next panel when I found out, I got to talk to these two ladies I've literally been looking forward to it for the month plus since it came out that, I was Gonna get to chat with them and I want to start by reading a quote that sort of shook me to the core when I first saw it and feels like the mantra for women of a certain age and a certain post. Enlightenment moment for them. It's attributed to writer Sophie Haywood, and it goes like this. The older I get the more I see how women are described as having gone mad when what they've actually become is knowledgeable and powerful and really bleeping furious. The. Next two women are knowledgeable and powerful, and while they are only occasionally furious when they are, they put that anger to good use and we should be paying a lot of attention glennon Doyle Abby Wambach before you say, hi I. GotTa go through these incredible things that you've done Glenn author of the Number One New York Times bestseller untamed over a million copies sold in fewer than twenty. Weeks also Number One New York Times Bestseller Love Warrior and carry on warrior. You Channel Your anger into becoming the founder and president of Together Rising all women led nonprofit organization that's revolutionized grassroots philanthropy raising over twenty seven million dollars for women, families, and children in crisis and into your current we can do hard things campaign forty days of outrage to action mobilization efforts leading up to the election. Wambach two time Olympic gold medalist fee for world. Cup Champs six time winner of the US soccer. Athlete of the Year award also a New York Times bestselling author Wolf Pack, and New Wolfpack young readers edition. You Channel Your anger into Co Founding Wolfpack Endeavor, a training program that's revolutionizing leadership development for women in the workplace and beyond your also on the board of directors. Together rising and you helped inspire that powerhouse group of women, including Natalie and Julie that we just heard from for the brand new NWF WFL team literally changing the face of sports team ownership. So now you've got the here on to God I can't wait till. I. Get my merch literally already texted foudy what am I getting my merch and hanging out with you as We had a pre call and as I've just said all of those wonderful things about you, we decided the only way to start this panel was to I talk about all the things we don't like about ourselves and why we're terrible failures because no one wants to listen to a bunch of bad ass women talk about how great they are. So I, will start up. Most of this hair is faker than the background behind me it is not this sunny and they're not people walking around behind me the hairs fake and also when I get really nervous instead of pitting out I, sometimes sweat through my underwear. So that's hot and great, and now I've shared that what about? There we go. Yeah. I, love the sweating I'm sweaty. Snetterton to actually. I only wear tank tops because my flooding get so serious I'm just going to do that now her disrobing already good start. Comfortable. The what's wrong with wished the I wish that I liked working out more in my retirement It's a grind every single day and believe me like I loathe this part of my personality because I just dread it until. I, do it and then I'm fine. But like I can't. Stop. dreading sacks Chai to get me for so long to run with her one day she came home and laying on the couch she said I just heard on this podcast that for every mile you run, it adds seven minutes to your life. was like, okay we'll take some sixty minutes to run a mile. So so I'm GonNa do this. Like actually. Right that you I like being rationalized your way out of that using facts and figures. That's that's the way to do it. Yeah, Matt. Let's start there though why do we have to do that? Glenn. You talk about this in your book and it's such a hilarious thing to read because we've all been there. You're watching a twelve year old soccer player and she's making you angry because she's proud of herself. I mean I. started noticing that a lot after abby night met and I would be at speaking events and somebody would raise their hand and say Clinton. When used to talk about depression addiction are hard life was I used to just relate to you so much. But now since you're happy and you've got abby and you become more successful I just find it harder and harder to lead to you. And I just always thought. Yeah. That makes perfect sense because every study shows that the more successful strong bold happy man becomes. The more people like him. And the more successful, strong bold. A women a woman becomes the less people like entrust. Her right says in actual bellcore and so women who are in any sort of living our lives out loud know that the world will only tolerate a certain level of confidence. And success in. So we know that we have to undercut ourselves in the beginning of interviews. I used to every time that I will talk about untained or talk about. Leaving my marriage abby I would I found myself in the first few seconds of every interview mentioning that my husband cheated on me. And Mentioning Real Quick nonprofit leader I raised money for women kits. And the reason I was doing that is because I knew that people would need. A permission slip to like me Okay. Well, let's agree that you did what you wanted because you had the right to. So it's just I stopped doing that although I just did it interview I have stopped doing it because I just want people women to be able to do what they want without any permission slip from anybody. Well, there's a ven diagram basically beyond say that's it that people that we let be fierce and love them anyway everybody else and you're I, mean, you're almost there is this book is going to be number one for one more week and that's it. We're going to stop liking I'm so sorry what disappointed like six minutes left Sarah I know it. Well. Abby. Why do we put other women down for being entitled because I? Feel like in sports it's a little bit less of that. Right we rise behind our great women goats in sports a little bit more than we do in other places, but it's pretty rampant still. Well our women's national team had an has a culture of truly supporting each other and. Really actually celebrated each other's wins and I think one of the reasons for that is because we weren't afraid. To turn up our own volume. I think a lot of times when people are looking at somebody else in their success. This jealousy in fear rises to the top, and then they're not able to actually make good decisions or see that they actually have more to offer. Right. So Alex Morgan scores, a goal Abby Wambach. Yes awesome, and now it's my opportunity to raise my level a little bit and I think that especially women. who have been told their whole lives to be quiet to not be ambitious to stay on the path essentially. Women don't know. Actually, how to turn up their own volume because they've never been given permission to do it so I think that women athletes are given permission because they're playing in a man's world and they also probably kick the rear ends of any male athlete or any man that they're talking to or up against. Yeah I WANNA see you in minute but I to what you just said I think there's an element of teammates and the Wolfpack that you talk about on your books and you talk about a pointers and rushers when a woman scores, there's two options were either rushing or pointing the goal score has two point at all the people who set her up to succeed and the rushers have to go to her and congratulate her for succeeding. You're not GonNa, win the sport if you aren't happy when your. Teammates scores, right. That's the goal that you're all going together towards. But but you also mentioned maintaining the illusion of scarcity is how power keeps women competing for the singular seat at the table instead of uniting and building a new bigger table. It doesn't happen as much in sports because you work together towards something but everywhere else there is this women, our enemies you should all hate each other because you're fighting for one spot all the spots go to men, but you get the one and fight for it. Yeah. That's why we have to forgive ourselves for every time. Someone says the guy's girl for somebody to call nine one one Hit triage out like God, what happened equip so much work. Missing Life. But also the you know we have to forgive ourselves for having that knee jerk reaction of jealousy because that's not our fault that's not innate in us. It was planted in us. It's because if we grow up in a world where every single table, there's twelve seats and two of them are for women right? Who's going to be more relaxed in light who's going to be more supportive of other people the guys because they don't they musical chairs as much as we do with each other right. So scarcity this idea that we have that we have to knock each other down and that if another woman has success, it means less for us. It's been true. Okay that is true and also this other idea we have a women are caddy here that so much. Women talk about each other behind their backs. I always think if little boys are taught to be direct with each other and little girls are taught to be nice to each other right. So we don't know why why can men just fight it out and get it over with to say the thing and get it over because that's what they were trained to do. Little girls women would be able to would stop stabbing each other in the back if we were trained as little girls to just each other in the front couldn't get it over. So this idea of having the the ability in the right to be direct with each other is not something that we learned as children it scares us when it happens. but we can practice we can D- condition ourselves from that. It's still happening a friend of mine's. was telling me about a daughter and she didn't WanNa. Play with someone in class and just said you know, I'm not interested in playing and the teacher called home and said, we need to learn how to make her nicer when she doesn't want to play with someone and she said, are you telling the boy set or are they allowed to just say I don't WanNa play and so it is but but what you said is so important because it's not just saying okay, scarcity has existed and therefore that's why we are conditioned to feel this way it saying that that scarcity is not real. It's something that's perpetuated by people who benefit from keeping that scarcity. And how once we're aware of it do we change it and that's everything and this book untamed and the lessons in Wolfpack are all about that? It's basically not just be be a great woman do whatever you want. It's figure out all the ways that you have been programmed to believe things understand why you believe them and decide if they're still for you and if they need to be a reality in the life that you're living and I'm curious if you guys had a pivot point where you thought to Yourself, Oh oh okay. I don't have to buy all this crap I get to decide for myself whether these things are real or not or was it gradual? I mean for me it was kind of a really interesting moment. It was the espy's onstage getting the icon espy award Mexico and Peyton and for me up until this point as women's national team player had just won the World Cup we had been received like like champions back here in the United States. And I kind of fancied myself. I was like, wow, we're really doing it US women right here we are, and then I find myself on the stage of these legends right and as soon as the lights turned off in the cameras turned off in three of US turned to walk off stage. It like smacked me in the face at. How different are retirements? The three of us are walking into would be. Their biggest concerns were where they were gonNA invest hundreds of millions of dollars that they rightfully earned. But my biggest concern was how I was going to find a new job to pay mortgage right and this was the moment where I realized oh I am not. Immune to the things that all women everywhere experience. You know I thought that because of my status or my time on the national team gave me immunity to the patriarchy, but it's just not true if this is happening to me, this is happening to every woman on the planet. So I had to reevaluate everything right because I- back in the day. said that I was like a guy's girl. Yes. You didn't I can I. Can. I can hang out with the guys you know like but what was I doing I was like. I don't know it just feels like I just wasn't really honoring myself. I was just fitting in I was taming myself. You were enjoying your proximity to power right? You were allowing your. So that's what we all like. Probably. A lot of people that are on this call are people who in some ways have gotten a seat at the table make who? An edited tendency when that happens just to let the door shut behind us to to feel grateful that we have a seat at the table and to then assimilate to the culture at the table, which is how scarcity continued writing. So we say, okay, I'll accept my power to proximity and in return for that, I will not ask for any real power. And I will not stand up for myself. I'll not stand up for anyone who's not at this table will be. Right. So just blowing up like getting to the table and then slowly blowing up the culture at the table is is what the privileges for. Right. It's good. And while you're on that Glenn something we do that in sports abby and we're like six feet tall. So we've gotten into a lot of rooms because of that and we've gotten that proximity to power, and fortunately we've been aware. Oh. This hasn't fixed anything but we've been smacked in the face. A little one we realized sexism is very real when I went on a job interview and I got harassment thought Oh I don't get to be the one woman in this industry that doesn't sexually harassed because I'm an athlete and because I'm tall and because I think I got this you get smacked in the face by it and it's and it's the same feeling. When you're reading untamed and you get to the section on racism because white women that proximity to power allows us to skate through life feeling like as long as we're not actively racist were doing all the right things and we are benefiting over and over from the white guys, and we are fueling the things that that caused them to succeed as long as we get to hang out with them that chapter. I told you already on the podcast you're on. That's what she said was Sarah Spain shameless plug and I told you I was sharing pages from the book and reading from it completely illegally some sort of copyright laws probably violated as I shared everywhere took pictures of the pages talk about that because that was a major moment for me in the book. Yeah. Well I feel certain. And then I'll speak for myself but I mean honestly it's all white women but. I do feel that at some wait. White Girls. We just kind of make a deal with the double and it's just like, okay. I will accept my proximity to power right? An and enjoy the comforts that offers me an in return for that, I will agree to. Again. For the real power. I will agree to accept things like all except the the protection from the police that they are created to offer me. But in exchange for that, I will never look over there and ask what police are doing in those communities. Right I will walk into my kids school make sure that every single kid has nine freaking ipads. But I will not look down at the school down the street and ask why they don't have clean water right I will over and over again except the relative. Privilege Comfort Protection White supremacists offers me. But I will never confront. I will pretend I don't know. About the destruction that white supremacy rains on everybody else right and so you know for me, it really comes down to once you understand that it becomes your job to understand that you have just misaligned yourself right as a white woman I have aligned myself over time with white men. And now with because there's so much racism and Misogyny A homophobe all of that. We see right now it is my job to align myself with everyone else. Isn't that the way that power wants it structure of power wants to start interrupting but the power structure structure power wants to keep everybody they are in power over separated afraid of each other we'll unworthy gatekeepers. We are the protectors right of white male supremacy and what's happening right now in our country is just that white women are finally understanding o our actually doesn't protect us at all. Like we're okay pretty much when everyone else was getting screwed. But now with this administration, we have finally realized Oh. We're going to get screwed too. So we have shown up that's that took us that to start showing up. But yeah, I mean, I just think in every moment like how do I betray white supremacy in this moment? I do I bitch in any and you can portray at any between on zoom meeting when somebody shows their racism are their misogyny like you can call it out. We have to stop protecting false peace and just the okay to make racism misogyny and homophobia uncomfortable in every area and just let it burn. You said that today. I will make sure every man, whoever makes me feel uncomfortable I'll make sure that to make them feel uncomfortable with their eyes or their gays or whatever. I'll look at them and be like what I did today though. One of the things that you mentioned that we can all totally understand is this idea of. Embedded messaging from society about our bodies and our beauty and everything. Every woman can say, we understand how for our whole lives, magazines and media and otherwise told us we needed to look a certain way and feel a certain way and our bodies. We do not do the same thing with embedded racism. We don't understand what watching the show cops at night with our family did to us. We don't understand that media portrayals of black men and black boys made us feel a certain way and until we acknowledge our own complicit behavior in that until we feel the same way about that training as we do about beauty training and the way media affected us in that way we're. GonNa continue looking outside of ourselves for the problem instead of understanding our own involvement in and I think everyone needs to read at least that I mean the whole book of course everybody has because it's keep selling but that is such a big part of it The playbook of Patriarchy is something that comes up in sort of both of these. How do you look at what you've been told your whole life and understand what's useful and what's real? How do we start to actually see the things that we've looked at our whole lives and decide because a lot of people will read these books and be like, Oh, I just accepted that how do we actually see them? This is a you question. Luckily. Still working on. Some. Of these things as just like roots underneath the ground that control us and we can't see them and they're they're just like beliefs that we have over time that have been planted Ms. What. Whitman's as we just said, you just have to examine and free thing we've been taught in the world or a book or religion and dismissed whatever insults are on. Seoul right and I think that sometimes we have to. I I remember when I was trying to decide am I going to honor myself and follow this love or am I going to go back to my marriage? Because I was to rock the boat. I almost abandoned myself because I was so afraid of hurting the children. I was so afraid of being a bad mom in one day I was looking at my little girl and I. I remember thinking I'm seeing in this marriage for her but what I want this marriage for her And if I wouldn't want this marriage for her then why am I modeling bad Levin Calling, Matt Good Mothering and this is the kind of experience that makes you realize you have bought a lie from culture and it's affecting your life is making you not make good decisions because the reason I thought that is because I have bought the lie. My whole life that a mother is a murder. That what we do to show our love is just slowly dot just slowly barrier dreams and our ambition and our hopes and our feelings and our emotions. In honor of our children, which is such a terrible legacy to pass down to our kids we all know how hard it is to be a fully human woman when you have been raised by martyr mother right and so that was one of those moments like this unconscious belief that I have because in every realm. The culture plans ideas inside of women, it tell them to disappear. Whether it's like a good employee a good employee accommodating whether it's like a good wife is submissive whether it's a good mother is a martyr at all means the same thing all means slowly disappear. Right. Yes. So for me, it's it was reexamining that belief in saying Oh a good mother is not a martyr good mother as a model. Right I want my kids to live released in beautifully in truly I have to do the same. And what I would just add to that is especially with the race conversation because like you stare when I read that chapter, it was years ago before you know when the book was getting edited and whatnot I remember feeling like. Low I like it like somebody took off the sunglasses that I've been wearing my whole life right and now the sun is so bright and I can't not see it right and so it's up to every person to uncover their own internalized racism. Like, every single one of us has it in us in it's not our fault. But right now that I know that if I don't do anything to cure my own internalized racism, then it becomes my fault. So what we we've talked about in those early days is like look I'm not going to say much about it until I have actually uncovered more of why this has happened to me why this is happening to the world educating myself on the actual history of this country. So that, we can start making our apologies and so that we can start creating the kind of country that that has been said that it is right the United States of America and I, want to be proud but a lot of were cast to go into it and it has to start inside each and every individual. It's good awareness. It's the awareness and it's the same as understanding. You know those embedded beliefs about everything else right I we have to say, why am I mad at this twelve year old girl for being greatest soccer And being out of it, and why do I think a twelve year old girls entitled she just really good at soccer she's not showing up, but you have to be aware why do I think that white if I've been told in my life over and over again and it's the same thing with that what you just said about the sort of freedom that you give others when you allow yourself to be freed the model that you give. To, your kids, I remember I was prepping for this message. My mom I said Mom why? Why wasn't I worried about being loud and being an athlete and whether I have kids are not whether what people think of me and I think so much of it is being raised by someone who was working who wasn't worried about gender norms and traditional roles and everything else and just modeled everyday the behavior that is of a bad ass lady. And you mentioned on Brunei Brown's podcast that your son came to you and your. Ex husband Craig. And told you that he's gay. and. You Thought and Craig said to you instantly, what if you Glennon head not owned who you are are boy might not have been brave enough to own who he was for both of you. What is that feeling to wonder what your son would have gone through if you had never acknowledged that you fell in love with abby if you had never left Craig and if he had wondered if he could be himself. I mean it's What has happened with chase and the way that our fam- I mean even Craig's reaction of saying of that being his. Reaction, he could have all kinds of different reactions. It was so generous in. So beautiful and just such an example of the kind of man that he is. I felt. I felt healed a little bit when you go through a divorce even if it's the right thing, it's a hard thing and it hurts the kids painful and there's all kinds of collateral damage. And so to know, and it can still be right. You know it's like something. I have to remind myself every time I see a little bags voyeur makes me sad that they're leaving and I have to remember the something can be hard and hurt and still be right to. You know that's kind of a mantra for me, but it just felt like, wow. It is true that the more we give ourselves all kids really need all our friends need are all anybody needs is to be fully to have permission to be fully themselves. That's it. That's all anybody needs. To know that they can show up. That's our definition of family. You can show up at the table you can change you can grow you can be different today the newer yesterday you will always be both held Enter. Know that half law difficult is, what is also what gave him that? Show. In the thing with chase the when he told us. I'll be totally honest like. It. Was One of the most intense moments of my life because you know when when you're a gay person, one of the things that you're told right is that the the world out there says don't ever have children because you're GonNa make them gay right. That is that is always been told to me from the beginning. But people that I. Love. and. So when this child brings us this information. By first reaction was total shock and then beer. And so my coming out story had little bit of drama and trauma probably is the better word for me. And what I realized is that my mom wasn't afraid of me. She was afraid for me because a same fear for me. Or my son crept in and I even to this day have to keep reminding myself like it's okay. It's going to be okay. He's not going to go through the same life that you had to go through to come out and to tell the world that your story in who you were. So for me, there was so much healing in that Gosh what a beautiful thing children can bring to your life in terms of healing those childhood traumas. Glenn in your book, one of the most powerful things you say about progress in our understanding our better understanding of lgbtq plus people are under norms or gender binary anything is progresses just perpetually undoing our no longer true enough systems in order to create new ones that more closely fit people as they really are people aren't changing after all. It's just that for the first time. There's enough. Freedom for people to stop changing they are it's such a beautiful thing because it's so simple and obvious. But so many people are fighting progress tooth and nail because they're just afraid of what they don't know and what they don't understand, and if they just simplified it down to let everyone be truly who they are in show up how simple is that how much easier is that then? What are we labeling this and who are you, and what are you, and that was one of the things I loved about this book to and when I had you on the podcast and you said, you know when you when you decided to let yourself fall in love with abby and tell the world and post this beautiful photo of you guys on the deck together in love you said, I don't really care what people. Think about it. That's not on me I'm fine. I'm great. I'm so happy. So you need to figure out why it would matter to you that I'm fine and happy and great and you falling in love with Abby and the way you talk about in the book is so romantic and also probably had a lot of women wondering if they were looking for an ambient of Adam. But that might have just been me protecting and. I'm just saying that the way you wrote about it I was like is that what it happens, they just walk in the room and you stand up in bow to them like a Weirdo. Wow. Yeah Yeah. Well, it did for you and everyone needs to read that part of course too. But Abby Yearbook is less flowery about how you met Glen and expect that book is later to come. We would all like to hear the other side story. Like when you walked in the room in this weird lady bound you and then asks for a hug. But in your book, one of the things you do get into which I love is the grateful stuff because as women we are told to be so grateful for everything we get oh, you're lucky you just get to play sports. Oh well in my day you didn't even get to have a job and you say be grateful but don't just be grateful be grateful and brave, and ambitious, and righteous, and persistent, and loud and demand which you deserve. So what's that moment where you start asking for things whether that's a woman and a CEO or my sister-in-law who's in a small town in Wisconsin and recently became untamed and is now like Let me out of what do I do in this small town. So how do you start that process of stopping just grateful and actually demand things? We'll gratitude is often the only emotion women are allowed. Let me repeat that. Gratitude is often the only emotion women are allowed. Right it's like an idea that everything that we as women earn has been given to us by that is that is a system that's been set up that we are playing like that's just the the world we live. So for me. I understand the desire to WANNA just like turn it on its head and go out into the world and be like, give me everything I deserve. But the truth is, is in order to actually go out and deserve it. You gotta work. You gotTA. Put the time in because you can't just go around demanding the ball and then not produce like the reason why that part of the book is so important to me is that Michelle Akers she demanded the ball and she showed me what is possible to win a woman steps into her power when a person steps into her power what is really possible and what made it so unbelievable is that she actually delivered right now this doesn't mean you have to be perfect because that's also another situation we don't have enough time to talk about but the truth is we have to start practicing we have to start practicing hey, listen I think I deserve this. You Know I. Want this in practice can start in your own home. Right has still talk to your spouse I, need more time for myself whether it's to get more skilled at your job whether it's to take care of your body workout meditate eat better whatever it is what? and. Know that this message of only being only allowed to be grateful is ingrained in every part of our culture like the reason why you know who's not sitting around at night writing in their gratitude journals. Gratitude. Okay. They don't wonder all night if they're grateful enough to ask for ratings thinking this is. Where my I have more I think more is the most subversive award that a woman can clan right just like more more power or equality more justice more love more money more peace more and more and more, and just know that you the reason why we are trained to be ashamed of our desire. Is because. If we constantly just feel like Oh this is good enough I should just be grateful. We will never challenge status quo empower will never have to be shared. It's a great trick of Patriot to try to shape must out of our wanting. Yeah I. Love that. It's grateful and though because we know the importance of gratitude, we understand how it can help us through tough times. But then we don't stop there. Then then we ask for more. Glennon you know your stories as sort of shining example of being able to imagine yourself as something other than what you are and yesterday we had this great quote be ready at any moment to give up who you are in order to be what you could become. You gave up the addiction and the disordered eating and jail time and being away from family where you couldn't reconcile some of your choices with their love being married to a man. All of these things and you were able to see it completely better and brighter place to be. There are people right now watching this who are not there yet and they can't imagine finding the piece that you found and the fact that you now say I don't I want more of what I already have. I don't need to go find something to make me complete. What do you say to those people who haven't yet made that leap or who fear making that leap of I have to change a whole lot and I don't know if the other side will look better. It's scary. It's really scary I mean you can have whatever you want. You just have to be willing to give everything you. Know. Going to be willing. I mean. They do know what they want. Right it's just like whenever woman comes to me and says, you know I can imagine more for my marriage, but I can't there's always a billion Butson I should but a good woman but I should be grateful. But so when we hear the language of should or shouldn't are supposed to can't a right a wrong that's all indoctrination right so that's a person who's in their head. So my job is always to get people to jump from their indoctrination to their imagination. So the way that I always do that with women as I say Okay Stop I know you can't. You can't I know I know it's impossible. But can you tell me a story about the truest most beautiful relationship you can imagine? I. I know I should have more at my job. I know I know I. Know I should have more purpose I just, but I can't leave my job. Okay. Can you tell me a story about the truce beautiful career you can imagine. and. In this amazing thing happens, which is the shuts down because the mind is just a hamster wheel of crap it's like this just. Just excuse NACRE. So the mind calms down in the in the imagination rises up in the imagination, the storyteller. and. Everybody has a story. That is deep inside of them about what their Jewish most beautiful relationship looks like in by the way, all my friends want different relationship. Okay. But most of them want a different relationship with the same person. Right, they just haven't gotten to the point where they've shared bravely their needs and their. Dreams and their it's such a scary thing to do. But what I know is that the truest most beautiful life. has to come to life one dimension at a time. It's like how an architect doesn't go from dream to building. Right they they have the dream and then they write down. And then it gets built. So, the starting place is always first of all when you feel discontent when you want more, you tell yourself that maybe. That you can imagine what does not mean you're not grateful enough. Maybe the fact you can imagine what you were meant for more. Right, and you just start asking yourself unscathed stories like what is the truth most beautiful relationship And then we figure out what's in our imagination is not our pipe dreams. It's actually are marching orders, right? We all have blueprints for our lives and they're not out there. Nobody's ever made them because nobody's lived life You guys. Since she's so amazing. I know shredding we all feel that way. We all want to be best friends with you guys trust me everyone reading. The book was thinking that everyone I told him doing this panel is like Oh can we all be friends afterwards like I'm working on it You know one of the things you talked about is with your sobriety is feeling everything and what's so much worse than feeling everything is feeling nothing and that's the same message for someone who has the stream for something bigger and something more. What's so much worse than potentially messing up what you have is to never actually have what you want and to just settle, and that's such a message from this book and it's so it's so amazing. I'm. Curious when you talk about the knowing in the book, which is sort of just like your gut and sometimes you label it imagination or knowing or God or whatever higher power how do you know when something is your knowing telling you? This isn't right for me versus anxiety stopping you and you listen to it and you let that fear prevent you when actually your knowing would be saying you can get through that. Don't let this anxiety slow you down. Well. Here's where I get a little bit Lou Sarah. They here's here's where we change from sporty spice dispirit sites a pay if everyone written. You've been sporty spice this whole time. Glennon Nelson. Okay by the way really quickly since you mentioned offsides, we need more non-sporty non-sporty people in our world because this is what you said about. This is what you said about offsides offside is canceled the soccer moms of convened and together we proclaim those offside loves our visionaries ahead of the game literally carry on speedy runners free I mean i. just want you to read a whole book about soccer with with insight like that. But back to what you were going to say, was it scary spice or what was what? Are We know serious spice I. Don't think that that existed but we needed one. Yeah. I know I'm I'm someone who's delicate. I've dealt with chronic anxiety and depression my whole life. So battling between what is real and what is my anxiety is? Everyday activity. what I know is that A person who was raised inside of a religion inside of a culture that taught me as a girl, all of the answers were outside of me right that. Out there. Not In here that I was listening to look to experts out there not in here that. There was a map for life. Right and supposed to ask out there and then follow somebody else's. An all I'm talking about with the knowing. Is that it took me forty four years to realize it nobody else note that all I was doing was asking other people for directions places they've never been. Right because no one else has lived my life. Nobody knows what the Hell I should do not administer none expert author not apparent now that nobody right so. All I mean by going inside for the knowing is that The. Biggest I think change that a woman can make in her life is not like a career change is not a religious change. It's not a political change the change from going like this. Going like this. From asking a world who she should be and what she should do. And just changing that posture to looking inside entrusting herself and that is all I mean by knowing I mean returning to yourself the trusting yourself it's like knowing. All all women and people know what they want right it's this knowing but the the how like put that into their real life that's when you can find experts right like how do I create a good life like that's when you sit down with the therapists but we all have that knowing inside of us. We just have to learn how to honor it and yet experts or something in the big things. They're not there's NO ASPER or minister book I can go to tell me to love totally I. I'm not saying that that's what I'm saying the logistics of how is giving yourself permission. Yeah. Giving yourself permission the thing. Yeah. Gosh I could talk to you guys just forever and ever and ever I want to quickly point out because I started with the things you're doing and we didn't talk as much about them as I would love because there's so much other great stuff that you guys can impart wisdom on but deciding abby to work with Natalie and everybody on Angel City F C and saying if you're not gonna Let. Me Sit at the table making a new table is unbelievable Glenn. You saying I, need to use this white woman power and take all this money. You guys are willing to give me and give it to predominantly women of color who are working in have been working in these communities and for these causes for years and do not get enough attention and funding and this quote that you have in the book. By Desmond Tutu. We have to stop just pulling people out of the river, go upstream and find out why they're falling in. It was another moment for me where people hiding their philanthropy. I'm going to give a bunch of money to a cause, but you're ending up being a foot soldier for the cause that you are against because you are fixing the problem and you're not getting to the people who are causing it. We are doing that with a lot of things in our life, right we get frustrated or angry or read about something, and then we do the thing that feels most comfortable or easiest to us to try to fix it. We need to go upstream more often than you guys proved that we're not allowed to own teams. Cool. I'll just make a new one and it's going to be bigger and better, and it's GonNa. Inspire everyone else to do that. Oh, I'm going to start a charity that raises twenty, seven, million dollars. Most of them are you know thirty dollars or less donations from all these different people this summit that I want everyone to to keep in mind throughout was not just ideas and insights but action and are out of time. But very quickly if there is anything else that you wanted to add or you want to try to drive home in terms of action, I would love to hear it because you guys are brilliant. I mean here's the thing. My wife wakes up every day, and this is what she does. I feel like I'm on the right of my life, but the truth is Taking that walk upstream is hard because you are walking through heartbreak after heartbreak after heartbreak, it is not for the weary. But it is the most worthy in the most fulfiling walk of our lives and we're going to just keep doing it over and over and over again until we die. Reach. Are you guys God? I love you guys so much i WanNa talk to you for hours and hours and days and forever and I want to move in. Okay. That was unprofessional. Thank you guys so much being here and thank you. Thank you for doing the work that you do, and if anyone has not read their books I, don't know what you're doing with your lives get on it. Thank you so much guys. Talking you online. Love You oh I'm Jane yes a wolf. Yes. That's what she said. Colorful days of fall are now upon us are your small businesses needs evolving despite the current uncertainty having the right people on your team is like feeling the warmth of being wrapped up in a blanket. So when you're ready to make that next higher lincoln jobs can help by matching your role with qualified candidates that you can find. The right person quickly linked in is an active community of professionals with more than six, hundred, ninety, million members worldwide getting started is easier than ever with new features to help you find qualified candidates quickly managed job posts contact candidates from a single view on the familiar Lincoln Dot Com as functions are streamlined onto one simple screen identify strong candidates. With their efficient rating system to help quickly get your job in front of more qualified candidates, and now you can do this all from your mobile device. No matter where the day takes you that's Lincoln jobs can help you hire the right person faster when your business is ready to make that next higher, find the right person with Lincoln jobs you. Could pay what you want and get the first fifty dollars off. Just visit Lincoln Dot com slash. Sarah again that's linked dot com slash Sarah S. A. R. A. H. to give fifty dollars off your first job post terms and conditions apply it's time once again for South Bitch sessions where I rant about something that bothers me and I, fix this week. It's people who have dug in their heels on their beliefs about co vid and refuse to educate themselves and update themselves with the changing information that we have in a way that's dangerous for all of us I just posted a long thread about this on social because I'm looking at the numbers going up across the country and I'm hearing the same talking points from friends and strangers alike online especially complaining about protocols and shutdowns pointing to mortality rates as the numbers that matter and yeah death is the worst outcome of Kobe but it's not the only outcome and a lot of people have said things like your healthy again in a week or two. which is ridiculous. In fact, the thing that scares me the most about getting it beyond the obvious of fring immediate series reaction or death, and potentially giving it to others' is what's known about the long-term effects. So if you haven't read about cove along haulers, please educate yourself. There's a great New York Times piece called when the doctor is a covert long hauler was also really powerful personal essay. The soft butch that couldn't or I got cove in nineteen in March and never got better. You can google both of those and take a read because there are thousands of people who were symptomatic mildly or ASEM dramatic when they had cove it, and now months later can't walk up the stairs can't poor bull cereal to other simple tasks, and if you haven't read about the brain fog, the covert brain fog read that too There's a New York Times piece. I feel like I have dementia brain fog plagues. Kovic survivors There's doctor saying there's thousands of people who have it and it's going to greatly impact the workforce. So we know that the effects of covid on jobs, the economy mental health, all of that the shutdown it's massive and we have to address it but we also have to address the effects on the workforce healthcare economy mental health in the future of people are sick and unable to work and not getting better because what good is it to be back your job right now if you're incapable of doing it. What if you can't exercise again, go for a walk play catch with your kid just go up the stairs without struggling. Can you afford the pre existing condition of having covert and a lifetime of that affecting your medical bills or a lifetime of hospital visits and treatments for the long term issues? I'm not trying to cause a panic. I just feel like people are not continuing to educate themselves. They've decided how they feel about. It and they're sticking with it and there is new information that we need to use one day if I snap, it's probably GonNa be about this and that's not sarcastic. I really feel like, I'm going to snap lately these days because I was feeling confident and trying to be optimistic but the way that people are ignoring it as the numbers go back up is terrifying. People are nowhere near as vigilant as they were months ago. So we need each other to get through this stopping, being stubborn or lazy or uninterested in knowing about the virus start reading again and listening to experts and acting accordingly I know we all have covid fatigue but. It's not going anywhere unless we actually listen to the experts and change their behaviors. And none of us want to be experiencing some of those things that thousands of people are months later after getting it there. I fixed it. I don't know. If you have a dilemma for me to fix tweeted to me at Sarahspain or go to the I tunes or PODCAST APP sure to rate and review and subscribe to. That's what she said and you can leave your dilemma and you're review maybe I'll get thanks as always for lasted about an hour. which she said. This class look haunted. Think. So about those two creepy girls come stay with us, he's truly frightening. Fairly, scenery missing Geiger's Great Service with Geico you get twenty, four, seven access to licensed agents. Thank. You creepy girls to see our room. We're GONNA sleep in the car now. We'd switch today for twenty, four, seven access to licensed agents.
Soccer Legend Abby Wambach on the Leadership Skills Every Woman Already Possesses
"We are so grateful to our launch partners, founding partner, PNG, and bank. Of America together, we're bringing you something good every day and it wouldn't be possible without their support. Welcome to this episode of here's something good a production of the Seneca women, podcast work and iheartradio. Each day we aspire to bring you the good news, the silver lining the glass half full because there is good happening in the world everywhere everyday. We just need to look for in share it. Here's something good for today. You don't have to be a soccer fan to know the name Abby. Wambach she's a two time Olympic gold winner. She's held the world record for the most soccer goals ever scored and she's been named one of Time's one hundred most influential people. In June of two, thousand Eighteen Abby Costas Sensation with her commencement speech at Barnard College a women's College in New York City. She told the graduates to claim their place at the table of power to be bold to demand the ball to make failure their fuel. That speech showed Abbas power as an advocate for inclusion and women's empowerment all of which makes Abby Wambach the perfect guest to help us kick off a brand new season of our flagship podcast Senecas conversations on power purpose. The new season launches tomorrow September ninth with a special six part series called getting equal. This series features fascinating conversations with amazing leaders who are focused on creating progress for women in the workplace, and in the world, the guest host for getting to equal to leaders known for their work to advance women in the Workplace Caroline Task Dad, group President North, America and Deanna Bass Vice President, global diversity, equality, and inclusion. Both of PNG. You won't want to miss their conversation with Abby Wambach about the practical ways to get more women into leadership. Here's a preview of their talk. Make failure fuel. Old Rule failure means you're out of the game new rural failure means you're finally in the game. and. Essentially what this means is winning fail you need to in your mind? It's a mindset shift. It's not easy when you fail you need to look at it as an opportunity, not a thing to take your ball and go home. It's the moment that can change your life. You can do it. I wasn't born like being completely fine with failure right I had to learn that the failures of my life we're going to be the arrows that were pointing in the direction that I needed to go. To steer clear of and I wasn't going to not try something because I was going to be afraid of what the outcome was. That's amazing. It's a is such an important lesson for young girls and for women to not fear failure. But like I love that you turn it into failures fuel, right? It's such an amazing reframing of how to think about failure. Yeah. I. Think it's important. Especially women when you find yourself in if you're in the corporate world refiner self. In male dominated spaces there's this mindset that we have to be perfect. You know men are allowed to fail up why the heck can't we why can't we fail and also grow rather than failing, get demoted or fail and lose all of our confidence and take our balls and go home like we have to be strong enough and courageous enough to come back and continue to fight because it's going to take all of us continuing to come back failure after failure the make sure that we have more representation not just in corporate worlds, but in governments in every institution. Listening to Abby Wambach is always so motivating and energizing. So. Here's something good for today. Women's leadership potential is unlimited and one way women can claim their power is to see failure as fuel and to exercise the right to fail as well as to succeed. That's just one lesson you'll hear from Abby Wambach in tomorrow's episode of getting to equal, which launches the new season of our flagship podcast Senecas conversations on power and purpose join us tomorrow and every Wednesday for this exciting new season. Thank you for listening. Please share today something good with others in your life. This is Kim as a rally co author fast forward and Co founder of Seneca women to learn more about Seneca women go to Seneca women dot com or download the Seneca women. APP free in the APP store. Here's something good is a production of a Seneca woman, podcast network and iheartradio. Have a great day. For, more podcast from iheartradio check out the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. We may be living in uncertain times, but there are certain traits all Americans share strength. Resilience. Creativity. And a belief that when challenges arise we rise even higher. Our Partner Bank of America, and it's more than two hundred thousand employees are committed to helping build a tomorrow you can look forward to. Visit Bank of America, DOT COM slash community to learn more.
Glennon Doyle Fell in Love with Someone Who Wasn't Her Husband
"I always knew that. I didn't have the romantic love that I heard about in other places, right? That I saw on the movies that some of my friends had like I didn't relate. I remember saying, you know, for me love is like a light and some people use it like Eliezer pointed at one percent and some people are more like a flood late, and they just spread their light everywhere. And that's the way I love. I just never once had laser like love. Gun into oil built career revealing her innermost insecurities and secrets about marriage, motherhood and religion. I threw her immensely popular blog, mama Sterry, then in a bestselling book a memoir called carry on warrior, and then in another bestselling book love warrior, she built her life on transparency. But then she fell in love with someone someone. She was not married to who would challenge her to be uncomfortably, honest with herself and risk everything. She'd worked for. I'm an Freedman, and this is going through it a show about how hard it can be to figure out when to quit and went to keep going on this episode. What happens when you've convinced the world that your relationship can be saved only to realize that maybe you don't wanna save it. If I'm a follower of your work. What do I know about your husband crag? And what is the story that you've told me about your marriage at this point? We got married very quickly after we met because I was pregnant was a bit of an arranged marriage. Sometimes wondered if we got married because it was the right thing instead of because we were the right ones. Even though we were thrown into this marriage. We built this beautiful little family. You would know Craig Tidiane incredibly kind person. You would also know that we had some some major challenges with intimacy very honestly about sex in connection, and how confusing often was for me not to be crass. But you just mean that you weren't like turned on by him or your sex life was not satisfied late. I just didn't like sex like I just didn't like it. I didn't. I felt like I was missing something. I always kind of told myself that maybe it was kind of like, my body issues became believe me when I was ten and I've always struggled with body issues and food issues, and so I just kind of tied it all up with that. Honestly, I felt a lot of anger during sex. This sounds so weird. But I truly thought of sex is kind of like the oil change of a relationship. Like, I have to do it every once in a while. So that things keep running smoothly. But it was never. Something that I that I desired a for sure always thought there was something wrong with me. Why is it? So confusing for me. Why is it? So why is there anger wrapped up in? Why is this all wrapped up in sex for me when seem so easy for everyone else? Of course. Now looking back. I know maybe there was nothing wrong with me. Maybe there was just something wrong. When did you know that something was just wrong? Where were you? I was sitting in a easing cold therapist's office. I felt ice. It was very strange because I just started having this hunch, and I didn't have a hunch before. Okay. I just thought there was something wrong with me that it just started having this weird hunched. And there was a missing piece of information. And I know this feeling well now, I've started to trust myself enough to know that if I'm super confused, it is very likely that I'm missing an important piece of information. Right. So we were sitting in the therapist office. And I was expressing angst about something in the therapists looked at me and said, well, I don't know how we can move forward until you can understand that. Craig is being honest about everything, and I just turned and said, I actually don't think that Craig is being honest about everything. I was just calling. Everybody's bluff, right, and damned if Craig didn't turn said, she's right? And all I can tell you is that it felt like a card game at that moment. So then in the therapist who is this man who is now completely confused says, oh, oh, okay. Hold on all three of us in that triangle nut room, the new the Craig was about to reveal infidelity, right? That was very very obvious the frigging therapist says. Okay. So there's a process for disclosing. So what we'll do is. We'll leave this meeting and Creggan will meet and then we'll all reconvene, and I just burst out laughing. I burst wild. Wild is. Okay. Okay. I'll just go back and give you guys some frigging time to get your story straight. And then I'll come back. Yeah. So so burst out laughing, which is now my new strategy for anytime. A man is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Because nothing freaks anybody out more than a woman who's just bursts out laughing, and I turned to them. And I said, I'm gonna go outside and use the restroom. I'm going to be back in two minutes. Craig is gonna tell me every damn thing that he hasn't told me yet, and I walked out, and I came back and Craig started talking, and he said he'd been unfaithful throat or marriage right after the wedding until this point. And that none of it was an ongoing affair was just one offs and any end the therapist at one point said what made you tell her this right now. And he said, well, I've been watching Glennon tell the truth about who she is and still have people love her. And I wanted to know if I could have that too. So how did you even deal with that as you were walking out of the therapist's office? What's going through your mind? I remember my rage being just that he screwed our family. Right. So I've come to understand that since Craig I didn't have passionate love the betrayal that I felt. So deeply was for my family. It was for my children. And I remember my friends saying it's so weird. Like, you don't talk about it. Like, I would talk about it. And I didn't know what they were talking about. Then it was always about my kids about my family, and how could he f- over this family, and it wasn't about our bond. And so you wrote a whole book about essentially lake in the big picture, not deciding to get up and leave. Right. I didn't. I mean, I decided to stay actually, I mean, I don't know. I think back on it now. And I was so frigging practical about all of it. I was that practical because I could be because I wasn't lost in passion. I mean, I think that women throughout history have made calculated decisions about the stuff. I looked down the barrel of the next years and decided. I have to find a way to buy some time here because my kids were unbelievably they were so little so what I'm gonna do is freaking warrior up in my own way that I know how and do whatever it takes to make this a little bit better for a while. And what that looked like for us is that we went into counseling. I went into counseling separately. He went into counseling. Separately, weeded counseling. Together, the truth is that he worked his ass off. And so did I we forgave each other. It took us a couple years, but I forgave him. So you wrote this book love warrior about that process about your relationship with Craig about this moment in your life. How does that book end? Okay. So I'm in this place where I have decided that our family has made it through right? It's years after the infidelity bombshell. We have been through Helen back. We have rebuilt a relationship, and I would say it was good enough. It was a good enough relationship. We probably had more respect for each other than a lot of people do. We had three happy kids. We had a good life. And I told myself all the time like have it all Glennon can't have it all so I wrote love warrior about that Turney. Then I finished the book with that ending. This is what we have. This is the new thing we've created the new marriage, and it's good enough. Send to my publisher. This book is now. Okay. So the book it's good. It's a good book Oprah chooses it as her book club book for the air. Hi, everybody. I'm here with Glennon Doyle, Milton while I'm thrilled to tell you that Glynn is the author of my next Oprah's book club, selection, it's called long warrior. Oprah doesn't mess around lakes. It. That's like the call that, you know, every author editor wants to get. And so now this book because everything has to be has to have a niche this book is now being touted as, you know, book about one woman's marriage, redemption. And how do you react to it being called a marriage redemption story, I mean, I feel the same way as I feel when people call me a parenting expert, I think it's hilarious. Like my entire goal is to be an expert to be marriage. Was that even mean, I remember Martha Beck reading level? You're being like all I know about this book is at eight a love story. I mean, it was it's it's not okay. I don't know what it is. But it's not you don't read it and think that is just exactly what I've always dreamed of. Right. So love warrior hasn't even come out yet and people like people like Oprah are promoting. Late crazy are talking about it as the story of how you've gotten yourself and your family to this much better place, or at least a place. That's good enough. And then what happens? So a few weeks before the publication of love warrior. Now, it must have been months at my first time, I was going to speak about love warrior public. It was a B E A this big librarians booksellers convention that happens once a year. I have two jobs. The first is to go to this little dinner with a bunch of these writers for whatever reason in I desperately did not want to go to this thing. So I walk into the back room where this dinner is I sit down I find the other person. Like, I always doing every situation. I try to find you know, the other raging introvert. So I'm sitting there at the table in the corner asking questions about her book, and I turn to the door and Abby Wambach said. She had a long grey trenchcoat on. She had bright red funky shoes on she was like almost as tall as the door frame. She had the coolest hayride ever seen. She just looked like she did not give a fuck. And and I looked at her in the door, and my entire being just said there, she is. It was the weirdest thing. The weirdest thing that has happened to me in a lifetime full of very weird things. I don't I didn't know what their she is meant. Exactly all I knew was that. There was a person that I had been waiting for it to come into my life for very long time. I stand up and like a complete frequent. I just I don't it just felt like a very important moment to me. So now, I am standing I'm the only one standing this entire room. And I can't explain why I'm standing, but it's too awkward to sit back down. Sushi goes around and shakes everyone's hand at the table while I'm still standing, and then makes it around to me. And we just look at each other and just hug and. I don't know. What happened during that hug other than I just was just like this hope? I n had never I've never kissed a girl. I've never like this is not something that is ever entered my consciousness, I've only dated men my whole life. So I was more shocked than anyone else could ever be shocked about this situation as soon as we get from dinner to walk to the day. I go into the bathroom because this is like an awkward transition time. And I can't handle transition time. So I go hide I come back and she's waiting for me because she wants to walk to the dais with me. So I'm very nervous. So she starts talking to me about her life a little bit. And she's just retired from soccer. She's going through a whole lot. We walk up. They've seated us next to each other on the dais. We stare at this room full of thousands of people thousands maybe thousand librarians she goes up and talks about her book. She sounds as fierce and kind of she looks. She sits down I get up and talk about my book. But but it is clear from your reading that like, you're married and total. This is a part of the book. You are currently promoting. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm walking out of the of the room. And I'm just like, I don't know. I just feel weird an amazing and my publicist so how how do you think that wet? And I said, I think it went amazing. I just I feel like I've such a connection with Abby. Of course, she meant. How do you think it went like with the book revealing of the book, I said, I just feel like I have this major connection with Abby. And she turns and looks at me and says, yeah, like you two would have been together in another life. And I was like what? I went home. I didn't know what was going on. But I knew something really important happened to me that had never happened to me before in my life. So I I'm trying to figure all of this out over the next few months. I Email my team. That works with me. And I say I need everyone to stop what they're doing and figure out who the curly haired assistant of Abby Wambach is because I need to write Abby letter, and I don't wanna give it directly to her. I think she's in a hard place right now with her retirement and some stuff that had happened with our, and so I won't her friend in the Sistan to decide if the letters good for her not found the assistant got the littered Hirsch. So this opens up what turns out to be maybe two month letter writing maybe month into this letter writing thing, I just sit down and say Jesus Christ. I am completely in love with this woman. I am married. I've got three children this book. Now is about to literally be released. Right. We're no longer in the prep time anymore where it's time to release it into the world about my marriage option. And I am madly in love with this woman. Oh my God. How did that make you feel? You know, what I felt like an I felt like, oh, this is the first thing that I have truly known for myself. Like this love is an idea. It's a feeling it's a reaction that is I can know for certain is from me because it doesn't make sense to anybody else. Nobody else earth would tell me to want. This isn't something that's been planted in me, by culture. This isn't something. This is so crazy that it has to be pure. Felt like the first thing that that had happened to me that I had decided as a free woman. Who is the first person you told about that decision? Sister. I don't really pee without my sister knowing and I told Liz Gilbert, what did they say I was sitting in the floor of kids dressing room. I son tried on suits for something. I don't even know what for what? And. The first thing I said to sister my sister, I'm in love with Abby. And I'll never be able to be with her and my heart is broken. That I was just like sitting there staring at the frigging phone because who does that to their sister who drops a bomb like that in text. I do so in the middle of a Tuesday or something exactly. And we've probably talked what twelve times that day. But this is how I do it. Right. So I'm looking at this frigging dots. Waning right back. And I can tell she's like writing any racing because it's taking awhile. And she just writes this sentence. She writes Glennon, you've spent too much of your life brokenhearted. And then I remember one of the first things that lives said to me it was early on. And I remember saying I mean, what are the chances? What am I gonna what are the chances of this actually works out? Right. That like I leave everything blow up by family. I blow my career I blow up all of it. And then what are the chances that actually works out? Like chances are that it's not going to work out. It was always the kids. It was the kids as the kids. It was the kids. And I remember saying, you know, what Carl young says is that said is that nothing hurts a child more than the unlit life of apparent. And I remember that all the time. And I remember looking at Tisch my middle child who's super sensitive. She's a lot like me. And she was always the one that I thought well, I could never leave because it'll break her. And I remember looking at her and thinking, okay, I'm staying in this marriage for her. But what I want this relationship for her? And it's switch things inside of makes. Oh my God. My job is not to like slowly die or settle for her to show her not to settle right? If she were coming to me with this story with this feeling with this background with this life with this marriage. What would I say to her, and I would say after the pain, what is the truest and most beautiful outcome for your family, if I'm liberated that means the people around me are two it just gets really messy at first. What were you thinking of in terms of like the options ahead of you? I could one I could pretend that this had never happened not speak to ABC gun and just carry on with this marriage this good enough marriage. Forever by shoes comfort and the approval of others and not rocking the boat and be safe. The other option was that I could go through all of the drama and fear of of doing of leaving Craig. And and there was no middle ground. One of my whole life mottos are ways that I live is to always keep my deathbed in mind. I know it sounds morbid. But like, I actually think it's a brilliant way to live, and I knew that. If I chose that option. One would have been turning my back on myself. So all I can tell you is it was as soon as I knew as soon as I could look myself in the mirror and say, I am in love with this woman. I sat down with Craig and said, I need to tell you something and told him that I was in love with Abby. And that I was leaving. The private decision has been made. But you're about to go out on tour, and you're gonna you know, you're you're public right about the fact that you are separated, but you're not public about one hundred percent of the stories that correct? Well, even the separation was I mean, even announcing separation was huge drama. You know, there were plenty of people who told me in my in my professional, circle you this book will fail. If you come out right before your marriage, redemption book hits the shelves and say that your marriage is over. No one is going to buy this book. What was said is this career suicide this curse suicide? I remember saying fine. I choose career suicide oversold suicide that is my choice. Right. There was also a trusted group of people who said no you start with the truth. It's so hilarious that everybody can have a certain opinion that you shouldn't tell the truth. But then when you call Oprah, and she says, no, we tell the truth. Everybody suddenly agrees that we should tell the truth. Percent it. I mean, so the phrase when you call Oprah. I'm like, yes. Tell me every right, right? And of course, as we know the book did fantastic. Everybody was fine. I had nuanced gray conversations. How hard marriages we talked about how there is no happily ever after right that we're always starting over again that the conversations were beautiful in real and so much better than they would have been if you know just tried to pretend that every story has a beginning middle and an end book does books and our lives go on to three months later. I announced agonize relationship. The response was. Utterly stunning league gorgeous. I think people are fascinated. Yes. About the relationship with Abby. And I don't think it has much to do with the gay thing. I think the reason why people are fascinated is. Because I did the thing that I wasn't supposed to do. I went after and claimed something that I longed for and desired, and none of the things that are supposed to happen to a woman who does that happen. Right. My aunt my life, actually became much more beautiful. It's like, wait. She did that thing. And and the world didn't fall apart. Glennon Doyle is the founder of mama Sterry an online community for quote, people who are tired of making life harder by pretending. It isn't hard her book love warrior became a New York Times bestseller, and not only are she and Abby Wambach still madly in love. They got married, and they live blocks from Lennon's ex husband and current co parent, Craig he and he have even played soccer together. Going through. It is an original series from male Tim, and I've been your host and Friedman. I am supported like a fine fitting bra by producers Eleanor keagan Meghan, tan, Gabrielle Lewis and Claire tie. This episode was edited by Joel level. It was scored and mixed by Hans Brown. Thanks to max linski who is always disrupting the status, bro. And everyone at pineapple street media. On the next episode. What happens when people are telling you to wait your turn. But your certain that waiting ruin your life. Yeah. I would always praying to God. Asking him. I'm asking you for Olympic gold medal. Give me a chance to compete for one. You know, I just want. I don't want them to discriminate against me because my age. Clarisa shields. I stepped into the boxing ring at just twelve years old, and she spent most of her time in the gym training for the Olympics. But when they told her she might be too young to compete. They threatened to take away everything. She'd worked for Clarisa tells me about how she was going through it both in and out of the boxing ring.
Is Borat 2 Really Happening?
"Today's episode is brought to you by meow mix looking for cat food with chart topping taste head to target and pick up your mix the cat food causing pert ammonium everywhere with one hundred percent complete and balanced nutrition for various life stages shop with target circle and save fifteen percent meow mix cat food. The only one cats asked for by name. Hi, this is Malayan verbier and this is Kim as a rally. And where CO hosts of Seneca's conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast network and iheartradio launching a brand new season of this podcast, which brings you fascinating conversations with leaders like two time gold medalist author and activist Abby Wambach, and actor producer Entrepreneur Justin Balboni among many others listen to Senegas conversations on power and purpose on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hollywood with Ryan seacrest Sasha Baron Cohen's two thousand six four movie was one of surprise smash hits of that decade raking in over a quarter billion worldwide and earnings Sasha Golden Globe and fourteen years. Later, it's a sure thing that Borat is returning for a sequel. The original movie saw Sasha dressed up as at and full people into thinking he was a real person the problem with the. Sequel now is that everybody's familiar with Borat but sasha figured out a genius work around in the sequel for is aware of the success of the first movie and thinks he's a movie star. So he starts wearing disguises to conduct interviews. There's a rumor that Borat to we'll see Sasha playing Borat who's then dressing up in disguise Sasha for at two in theaters next year that's direct from Hollywood.
Mother's Day Gifts That Empower Women
"Hi this is malayan. Veer and this kim as a rally and where co hosts of seneca's conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the seneca women podcast network and iheartradio. We're launching a brand new season of this podcast. Which brings you fascinating. Conversations with leaders like two time gold medalist author and activist abby wambach and actor producer entrepreneur justin balboni among many others. Listen to senegas conversations on power and purpose on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get podcast look into this episode of. Here's something production of the seneca women podcast work and iheartradio each day. We aspire to bring you the good news. The silver lining the glass half full because there is good happening in the world everywhere every day. We just need to look for in share it. Here's something good for today with mother's day right around the corner. We think the perfect way to honor. Your mom is to buy her something from a woman owned business after all supporting women don't businesses is one of the most effective ways to empower women. And that's why. We've created the seneca women marketplace an online source to shop from amazing women owned businesses today. We're going to suggest some great mother's day gift ideas from the marketplace. Many of the business owners are mom's themselves and if you know a woman entrepreneur be sure to listen to the end of this podcast. We'll explain how you can nominate her for the marketplace and tell the world about her business. But let's start with today's gift ideas you can find them all on the seneca moon marketplace at shop seneca women dot com now. Every cook produce a nice cutting board or bread board. The handmade ones from sheldon are especially good looking and practical check out. For instance there are two toned walnut bread board. The company was founded by wnba champion and olympic gold medallist elena delle done and again the name of the business is done for moms who are chocolate lovers and who isn't the good chocolate tier offers chocolate. That tastes good and does good. These chocolates are handcrafted. Ethical and healthy and the company has mission if breeding inclusive workplaces for people with autism over the past year. We've all gotten a new appreciation for athletic. Wear and some of the smartest looks around come from. Ps collective everything from colorful. Cropped hoodies to sleep shorts and leggings. The company was founded by federal night. Now here's an idea. Treat mom to a home manicure and do it with beautiful now. Polish from me show beauty. Founder katiba michaud. King had the idea for the company when she was pregnant with her son and she wanted to find nail polish. that was both nontoxic and luxurious. Check it out and to make your mom feel extra special. Consider lounge wear from sued. Ara these beautiful and cultural pajamas probes. Pants and tops are all made from unique textiles and the proceeds from sales of women. in india. worth the risk of being trafficked. You can learn more about dara on this week's made by women podcast finally. What's mother's day without flowers. The ones from lucky you come. With the personalised sweet message tucked inside. I hope that provided some great inspiration and remember that all these businesses can be found on the seneca women marketplace gouda shop seneca women dot com to learn more. And if you want to honor a mom per newer or a women don't business in your life nominate them to be. In the seneca women marketplace their products in stores will be displayed and they may even be selected to be featured on an upcoming seneca. Women podcast go to shop. Seneca women dot com and click the nominate button to nominate a women business. Thank you for listening. Please share today's something good with others in your life. This is kim. As a rally co author fast forward and co founder of seneca women to learn more about seneca women go to seneca women dot com or download the seneca women app free in the app store. Here's something good is. Production of a seneca woman podcast network and iheartradio have a great day for more podcast from iheartradio. Check out the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or every listen to your favorite shows. Hi this is malayan veer. And this is kim as a rally. And where co hosts of seneca's conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the seneca women podcast network and iheartradio launching a brand new season. This podcast which brings you fascinating. Conversations with leaders like two time gold medalist author and activist abby wambach and actor producer and entrepreneur. Justin balboni among many others. Listen to senegal conversations on power and purpose on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast.
This Power Couple Secretly Got Married, And We're Freaking Out
"Give yourself a delicious taste of happy with a starbucks caramel ribbon, crunch, Frappuccino, blended beverage swirl of ice cold goodness made for sweet slow sipping your day deserves a treat. Download the starbucks APP to order ahead. Classic Two Thousand Twenty, we know things have been kind of out of the ordinary lately. You'RE NOT GONNA get a graduation ceremony so iheartradio found some people right commencement speeches just for you. John Legend. Hillary Clinton. She's into over twenty of your favorites from Dj College to coach. Kevin Abby Wambach to halsey listen to iheartradio new podcast commencement out now on the iheartradio, APP. Ever you get your podcasts. Direct from Hollywood. There's been a rumor now for a while, but twenty one pilots, drummer, Josh done and insatiable star Debby. Ryan had secretly tied the knot. It's official. Yes, they're married. Debbie dropped the news during the interview with Vogue revealing. They got married on New Eve in Austin and even plan the entire event in twenty eight days. They've been engaged. Since two thousand eighteen after Josh dropped down on one knee in a tree house, in New Zealand of course, but decided to move forward with the wedding after one. One of Josh's best friends passed away and they were reminded. Nothing is guaranteed. Debbie tells folk. Josh's friend was excited that we were getting married and I never doubted that I'd know him through every coming phase of our lives. When he passed, it really rocked me and put a lot of things in perspective, it didn't feel important to wait anymore to stop being busy for all things to line up. Perfectly, intending to do things is not nearly as powerful as doing as we aren't promised tomorrow. Congratulations to the Dunn's. Erect from Hollywood. Rene Bach was only nineteen years old when she moved from her small town in Virginia to Eastern, Uganda? In two. Thousand Nine, Bach founded serving his children a feeding program for severely malnourished kids. The NGO quickly grew into an inpatient medical facility. The heroic image obscured a deadly truth. Rene Bach had no medical training. When it comes to missionary work and humanitarian aid in the developing world, what is the line between helping and hurting? We'll find out in the new podcast the missionary. Listen to the missionary on the iheartradio APP, apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Jensen carpet. I want you to listen to the new podcast from tree. Fort Media and iheartradio called the no sports report with Jensen cars. You See. I'm a comedy writer Die Hard Sports Fan. who was terribly missing the athletes I loved so much so every episode talking to them the best athletes, coaches, commentators and legends from around the world to see what they're doing now that we're all stuck on our cap. On this podcast, we'll hear sports figures entertain themselves and their families. We'll find out if they're saying shape if their kids are heckling them during home school did they almost burned down the house, trying to make their own bread? Are they sleeping in their jerseys and like I do up? No, just meet all right. Some of my favorite episodes have been hearing boxing legend Sugar Ray Leonard Talk about staying in shape and a driveway. Working out tennis whatever you can do, you feel much better or having Jay Williams. Explain his crazy NBA Khruschev idea cruiseliner for massive okay, getting Olympic Sweetheart Adam rippon to critique my fourteen fift-. To me. I don't care listened to the no sports report now and subscribe on the iheartradio. APP Apple podcasts wherever you get podcast.
How to Have a House That Looks Cleanand is Clean
"Hi this is malayan. Veer and this kim as a rally and where co hosts of seneca's conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the seneca women podcast network and iheartradio. We're launching a brand new season of this podcast. Which brings you fascinating. Conversations with leaders like two time gold medalist author and activist abby wambach and actor producer entrepreneur justin balboni among many others. Listen to senegas conversations on power and purpose on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get podcast this episode of your something good production of the seneca women podcast and iheartradio. Today's episode is produced in partnership bounty paper towels each day. We aspire to bring you the good news the silver lining last packed full because there is good happening in the world everywhere every day. We just need to look for it and share it. Here's something good for today. We've made it through the winter an over those long months at home. Many of us have developed fini routines that make us feel safe during these challenging times but now might be a great time to clear out the clutter from those routines because believe it or not. There are some cleaning routines. You've been doing that. You can now skip and there are others that can be done better and easier and the result will be a home that not just looks clean but actually is clean to find out what works. We're talking about home. Hygiene today. With dr sandra cash deputy medical director and infectious disease specialist at the west med medical group. She's also an instructor at weill medical college at cornell. Here's dr cash. Had to say thanks so much for joining us my pleasure so we know that keeping a clean house is important to our health and our peace of mind given your expertise. What are the most problematic places in the house so anywhere that you are seeing a lot of high touch hand. Traffic is really going to be what you want to focus on. So doorknobs handles faucet handles Refrigerator door handles anything that you know that. A lot of different people are touching a lot of different times Those are our key areas. You a target for cleaning and not just cleaning. Occasionally cleaning really repeatedly those are the the highest risk areas Shared items like towels bathroom towels in particular where people might be wiping their faces wiping their noses. Kids particularly Especially if you know that kids you know. Their idea of hand hygiene is is very different from an adult Those would be areas where you really wanna focus on on regular more intensive cleaning efforts. What have you been doing to improve your routine at home. Maya house hygiene regimen underwent a complete overhaul as a result of covance. Oh so it's probably a good thing in the long run. But what i do is i do a weekly kind of More deep cleaning the entire house. And then i really do a daily wipe down of of high traffic areas. I use in terms of cleaning ingredients. I prefer to use paper towels Because they are disposable And you know you kinda wanna use a disposable product if you are wiping up potentially infected surfaces And then i use you know a regular home cleaning products. I worry less about bleach. Unless i am cleaning a more high traffic area. And that's where. I will use Diluted bleach solution Nothing that's going to be too caustic to the skin. But i wear gloves. And i and i clean the surfaces down and i do that once today. Initially it was it was a chore. But it's really become so much of my routine now that it's just part of my covid regimen. Well that is great advice and actually. I think that people are finding the same thing that you can almost get meditative about cleaning shishlov once you get into it in our regular clean routines. Is there anything that you feel like. We could skip if we needed to save some time. Yeah i think that you know the initial kind of recommendations people made about cleaning everything out of the school bag when the kids get home on cleaning things that you're bringing in and out of the house taking your shoes off at the door. I think those are more remote opportunities for transmission. And i think that you know. That's the sort of thing that you could probably put by the wayside Generally any regimen that you adopt should be something you could do regularly and completely and so if you have something that's very laborious and just not gonna not going to happen. I'd rather you adopt a regimen that you can actually adhere to. That was so helpful. Dr cash has some great advice. So here's something good for today. We can feel better about our homes when we know our space is clean and safe and it's great to know what we should be focusing on and what we can stop worrying about. For example doctor cash tells us we should focus our cleaning efforts on doorknobs. Faucet handles refrigerator doors anything that gets touched a lot. By different people the items that children bring home in their schoolbags and even our shoes are less of a concern. And dr cash says if you get into a cleaning routine one. That fits your lifestyle. You'll be more inclined to do it. And it always helps to have products by that can help. Dr cash recommends paper towels. She likes him for cleaning. Because they're disposable we like them for handwriting to rather than claw towels for same reason. So here's a tip for bounty paper towels that can help make leaning more convenient. Grab a fresh sheet of bounty to leave your surfaces thinner than used lots. They hold up the tough kitchen messes and they're disposable both a very good thing for more great tips on how to keep your house clean. Go bounty towels dot com. Thank you for listening and please share today. Something good with others in your life. This is kim. As rally co author of fast forward in co founder of seneca women to learn more about seneca women go to seneca women dot com or download the seneca women app free in the app store. Here's something good is a production of a seneca woman podcast network and iheartradio have a great day for more podcasts from iheartradio. Check out the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Changing the World One Cookie at a Time
"Hi this is malayan. Veer and this kim as a rally and where co hosts of seneca's conversations on power and purpose brought to you by the seneca women podcast network and iheartradio. We're launching a brand new season of this podcast. Which brings you fascinating. Conversations with leaders like two time gold medalist author and activist abby wambach and actor producer entrepreneur justin balboni among many others. Listen to senegas conversations on power and purpose on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast look into this episode of. Here's something good. Production of the seneca women podcast work and iheartradio each day. We aspire to bring you the good news. The silver lining the glass half full because there is good happening in the world everywhere every day. We just need to look for in share it. Here's something good for today. Women entrepreneurs are known to be resilient to pivot when confronting adversity to persevere until they succeed. Today we're going to meet a young entrepreneur. Who's done all that and much much more. Colette devito who has down syndrome has turned her talent for baking into colletti cookies which ships thousands of cookies across the country every week. Now colletti cookies has thrived even during kobe over the winter holidays. A boston based company filled orders for more than thirty thousand cookies and like so. Many other women entrepreneurs colitis cookies is built around purpose. The majority of its employees are people with varying abilities. That's something colette is especially proud of. She told people magazine boat. Favourite part of my company is creating more jobs for people with all types of disabilities. And if that weren't enough purpose for one person. Colette also has a nonprofit called collective leadership which offers workshops on entrepreneurship. So how did this all come about from a young age. It never seemed to occur to collect that she would be anything but a success. After high school she attended clemson university life program which provides education and a college experience for people with intellectual disabilities. It's three year program but collect. Finish it in two years. And then she started to look for a job. Well we'll let collect tell her story from here klatt. Thanks so much for joining us lot. I am axing really happy to be part of this podcast. I just wanted to say first of all that we love your business and we love your cookies and we'd love what you're doing now. I understand you started your cookie business because you were turned down by all the jobs you applied for. What were you told by potential employers. I was not a bit of me. Who actually have a It must have a softly on. I was not a good fit. And is i actually a dot in the ob owner business so instead you turn your hobby. Baking into a business. Was that hard for you. I didn't know as the absolute own up is at the very indian. I loon high to become as auto fondle onto really well so orange on business. I actually known naff. My mom met my hammadi. What we hear that a lot from entrepreneurs they have passion to start a business and then they learned along the way how to do it now. Your signature cookie is a chocolate chip cinnamon cookie. That's called the amazing cookie. Why did you name it that Someone nag my family and suspense. They i've need to the bed of my creaky and said this quickey is a mr and that is why i were next to how of a cookie. Acts name note juan. Well that makes a lot of sense. So you've had a huge success since you started the company for years ago. You're always in the media. You're on tv your online and there's going to be a documentary series about you. How does that feel tv and being on the media it. I feel in elible. Addison happy i would say i feel in new chance. Saw water for people is actually have a dish. Ample this airborne is. I sees appear at ease and you are such an incredible role model. Thanks so much for talking with us today. Truly remarkable and collects mission is a big one to create jobs for people with disabilities and to change the public perception. Of just how capable. This population truly is and that includes collect working with the us congress to create laws that would make it easier for disabled people to attain jobs. So here's something good for today. Collective ito shows us how entrepreneurship can empower and lift up women and she also shows us what perseverance combined with purpose can do. You can support this amazing entrepreneur and her mission when you shot the treats at colletti dot com. That's c. o. L. l. e. t. t. e. y. s. dot com and to find more amazing women owned businesses visit the senate marketplace at shop. Seneca women dot com. When you do you can learn about the card by seneca women the first card that rewards you when you shop from women owned businesses. Thank you for listening and please share today. Good with others in your life. This came as early co author of fast forward and co founder of seneca women to learn more about seneca women go to seneca women dot com or download the seneca women app free in the app store. Here's something good is. Production of a seneca woman podcast network and iheartradio. Have a great day for more podcasts from iheartradio. Check out the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows made by women is brought to you by the seneca women podcast network and iheartradio through in-depth conversations. We bring you inspiring stories and shared learnings to help you successfully navigate. Today's environment benefit from the experiences of legendary entrepreneurs as well as everyday women in business who have found success. Their own way considerate your real world. Nba designed for the new. Now i'm kim as a rally and you can listen to made by women on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. You listen to your favorite shows.
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