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"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

08:14 min | 3 weeks ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"And get home because I didn't want to leave her. In that condition of uncertainty, for any longer than I had to endure. You okay now do you have any residual pain or or effects? You know I've I've been applying drops continuously? The the main thing and an important thing was to get the pressure to go down and this worked really well for that. The it's been sore over the past week. There was swelling in in a in Trent. Inside and behind. But that started to go down. A little bit light sensitive of anything that I is healing quickly, but now my my nose area is. Is, still so I'm just I'm grateful to the bridge of my nose for helping to serve its. Purpose and taking a little bit of that force away before it went here. You've been a journalist for a long time. How does this experience compare to other experiences that you've had covering these kinds of events? What is always been a degree of tension between police protesters are mediated. They are tense environments and there's been. Incidents and complaints within that but. Based on my experience in these types of events, this was markedly different than anything I'd seen before. It was different by the degree of the lack of clear communication, and it was different in the degree to which the projectiles coming from police, seemed continuous, and to some degree arbitrary, or at least hard for me to decipher what a why they were doing what they were doing. Like a larger question of the role of the press generally, and how important is to be able to bear witness without fear of harassment or assault? Can you talk about how important that is sort of the value and the role of a free press in the country, and how important is public trust in an accountability of government? In a I, think I rather than tackle those larger questions I want to speak to it in a more immediate, instead sort of visceral sense, which is I, was there. In that moment because there was a young man whose life seemed in danger. A young black man an. Since then. I've got in touch. He's nineteen years old. He had just graduated high school in Minneapolis was born in Somalia. He's being evaluated for possible long term, brain damage and I think that. It's important that journalists be there to document what happens in cases like this because. You know if he was hurt and if there was any unjust teacher in how he was hurt. That state needs to be told. and if there needs to be accountability, there should be accountability, but there's a need for us there to help document and verify incidents like this so that everyone knows that we are watching. What's happening now will be recorded for future use. I think that's important for the safety of like that young man. His name is Ali. And I was doing my job. That's the job I will continue to. Did the experience change anything about the way that you would choose assignments in the future or the way that you would cover them? It changed the it made clear that whereas previously in Minneapolis. Show up with a flak, jacket and helmet and goggles. Now you do, and that change that day people may wonder. Why weren't other journalists like wearing more protective gear? The truth is that we'd been doing this for years and didn't have to be under that kind of threat I think that's certainly not going to change the type of assignments. I take. It's not GonNa Change My. My basic cognitive, which is to stand off to the side, but within view of what's happening still going to do that. Just going to be wearing more beer when I do it now you're fighting back. You're the named plaintiff in the Class Action Lawsuit that they sell. You've Minneapolis filed against Minnesota law enforcement and affiliated government officials. What made you decide to join the lawsuit? I think a principal thing is that it seemed clear to me based on a pattern of what happened that day, the pattern of instances further with journalists and police, including some experience myself on the days that followed it. Something had changed. There was shift in the tactics that they were taking. There was an apology, but there wasn't any explanation, and there wasn't any sense of ability for who made these decisions, and why and I'm hoping that the lawsuit can help us understand more about exactly what happened and ultimately lead to accountability as designed to do both stop this from happening couplets understand why it did and hold people accountable for this that they met. And your feelings, or does that change anything or factor in to your role here? It made it a lot easier for me to step forward I. Other people had to go back to their companies and deal with a lot of back and forth there I think that there is nervousness on the part of. A large institutions if they are suing the police, can they continue to cover the police? Can reporters continue to cover the police, and while I was like contacted moment the fact that I'm a freelancer gave me a lot more latitude as an individual I, understanding other plaintiffs have joined, and I hope that others joined I kind of saw myself as a initial placeholder, the whole down the ground and wait for others to come. And what does justice look like to you in the outcome of this lawsuit? I see this lawsuit. Part of a larger process for justice in the can't be justice for me, not for alley, and frankly they can't be just as for me and not for George Floyd. There's a lot of questions that need to be answered. A lot of incidences need to be looked into, but I see what I'm doing as a way to chip away at. At that block and do it in a way that can provide us with more information that may ultimately help us get a bigger picture of what has been going wrong, and why then that Melissa may be useful in these other pursuits justice that are separate, but later to what I'm doing. Can you say more about how they're interconnected? What that connective tissue looks like? And somebody's very practical. You know the tactical decisions made by police that were affecting journalists also affected other people on the ground. You know there were two other people hit by rubber bullets in the head before I was, and I presume for similar reasons. If what I'm doing leads to a better understanding of how and why that happened, that may prove useful to those other people who were injured more serious than I was. Is. There anything that you witnessed that can sort of speaks to. The community or unity. I always remember the woman who helped me to safety at that moment I was extremely like shakeup. I could hardly see I just a motorcycle just barely missed me. I didn't know where I was going exactly and in that moment what she said was like I love you. My brother and it just felt like a moment of. Of Grace, in what was otherwise very influential experience and I I want to reach out to her to. And Dino! She was she a protester. Have contact information. I've been Her name was a deafening Brown and. I. I don't know if she was a protester. At that moment, she was just she was an older woman who was trying to make sure that was okay. At the same time like when I got hurt, other people rushed to help me at at that scene and I think. While this is a moment of conflict. Look around, and there are mutual aid donations happening all over the city in a way that no one is ever seen, and I talk about mutual eight people directly, delivering Guy Canned, goods and foods. The people who need them. And as coming together here, that is inspiring and I think historic, and.

Minneapolis Trent Somalia George Floyd principal Ali harassment Melissa Minnesota Dino assault
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

02:56 min | Last month

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"And resources, which is what? Movement for black lives and. A bunch of other black led organizations as well as that see you are calling for right now. So by divesting from police by limiting the role of police in communities of color were able to redirect the funds which are as I've said you know extraordinary. We spend a wad of money on law. Enforcement were able to redirect all of that money to other services that allows for us to add decades of racially driven social control and oppression as well as address quality of life problems and social problems at. Roots in ways that strength then impacted communities instead of terrorizing that. And if we are thinking about divesting, obviously, if an organization has less money than they have less reach, and so I think what's implied, there is that part of what the police do is not necessary. What actions what things are we saying you could be doing less of and we would still be so safe. It would be okay to pull these things back. I. Think about you know what drives street level harassment by police, and that we need to really end that street level harassment, and then forcement offense of offenses that drive it, and so these are. No incredibly non serious offenses. I really important to note that you know the FBI has said that there are you know only five percent of crimes for which people are arrested for every year constitute what the FBI consider as the most serious crimes so ninety five percent of arrests that take place each year, which is about ten million arrests. Are for a range of non series offenses. So Offensive Lake you know drug, possession and distribution. Thinking about the criminalization of sex work, thinking about driving offenses including driving without proof of insurance, driving a vehicle with an expired sticker. These are minor criminal walls and civil infractions and. I think something that's important to point out here is that the enforcement of these minor offenses not only leads to the criminalization of black and brown communities across the nation, but also can lead to death and murder, and that is what we've seen in cases like Eric Garner, in cases like George Floyd, who was targeted for such a minor fans that turned out to not even hold up. He was targeted for forgery and he was murdered by the police for that. So we really cut, you know he's ninety five..

George Floyd FBI harassment Offensive Lake Eric Garner murder forgery
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

03:16 min | Last month

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"What happened the Civil Rights Movement? Where there was intense violence that was instigated on behalf of the police, the police started the violence during a many peaceful protests during the civil rights movement, and we're seeing the same thing happened again right where we have peaceful protests on the streets and twenty twenty, but unfortunately the police are responding with violence with tear-gas with rubber bullets charging at people. So from you know, we have it from slavery to Jim Crow with police, being tasked with enforcing segregation walls and other laws that were meant to oppressed black people, and again maintains social control, and then we kind of see you know this uptick in policing and in the rhetoric on law and order and on crime in the nineteen sixties. When President Lyndon B Johnson declared a war on crime during LBJ's administration, you know he was able to pass a law through Congress and signed it into law in nineteen, sixty eight, which was the omnibus crime control and Safe Streets Act which created new agency within the DOJ at the department. Department of Justice tasked with funding state and local law enforcement with hundreds of millions of dollars, and so based off of this commission, but we're facing now with this like really targeted focus on lack round communities on surveillance, and on control was kind of was elevated to the sled fall I just want to pause there for a minute and focus on the funding piece a little bit, because it seems like the words, funding and safety have been linked since Lyndon B Johnson all the way through presidents to present day. How do we sort of decouple that? How do we think about funding and safety in the context of police? Yeah you know and I'm glad that you mentioned that. Because I think it really is important for people to understand that up until the sixties, seventies eighties nineties. You know we did it funnel that much money into our local police departments from the federal government, but with the passage of laws under both Democratic and Republican administrations. There was billions of dollars in. Billions of straight up dollars, but also resources including militarized weapons. Leading to local and state law enforcement agencies. Unfortunately the heavy focus of the eighties, nineties and early two thousands kind of tough on crime narratives that we really need ball enforcement to curb crime to enforce public safety to make sure our communities are safe and healthy, which is fundamentally misguided. Right now we spend over about a hundred billion dollars on a law enforcement on policing specifically on the state and local levels. We've criminalized so much behavior that does not need to be criminalised and that results in people being funneled into our criminal legal system into our juvenile justice system into our criminal justice system and And we.

President Lyndon B Johnson Civil Rights Movement Department of Justice Jim Crow federal government DOJ Congress
"at" Discussed on KQED Radio

KQED Radio

04:52 min | 4 months ago

"at" Discussed on KQED Radio

"Didn't make any sense with Monty his team knew that AT and T. was lobbying the Federal Communications Commission which regulates the airwaves in the U. S. to give it exclusive rights to the radio spectrum it would need to put phones into millions of cars using cellular technology most read in you that if eighteen team won the monopoly then they at Motorola would lose all chance of using the network for new portable phone AT&T was the biggest company in the world by every measure they have to the lobbyist in Washington to sign to every single federal communications commissioner we have a total staff of three people AT&T had two hundred was David versus Goliath if Motorola was going to stand a chance of persuading the communications commission has multi decided they'd need something spectacular they'd have to show them the future and actually make a mobile phone there were twenty people working on the phone itself if we keep in mind loses we dated to build the radio stations in the cells as well so there were another twenty or thirty people building these stations were additional people that have to set up the demonstrations in New York and the people who made the phone worked day and night because you had just three months to do it in did you and the management of Motorola Bakshi they put a lot of money into it and what was the biggest challenges to think up until that time radio usually have one channel one radio station and we have to put hundreds of stations into a single hand held device and we have to allow this device to talk and listen at the same time up until then people push a button to talk and listen we have to be able to talk and listen at the same time we used a brand new radio frequency that had never been used before a thousand records and we have to put all of them into a package that was small enough to be able to be held in your hand the Finnish phone contains thirty circuit boards and wave the equivalent of a big bag of sugar and when he revealed it to the press in a in nineteen seventy three you had at C. two prototypes in you in case we want the broke but you didn't have many journalists turning on fifteen twenty researchers certainly didn't get the a huge amount of attention once we made the demonstration there were stories about this phone where you could talk everywhere all over the world one of the reporters there was Australia and she said can I call my mother in Australia and we still of course we have our fingers crossed and she called her mother and woke her up in the middle of the night and she was thrilled it took the federal regulators however a few more years and the intervention of president Ronald Reagan to guarantee Motorola access to the radio frequencies it needed it was only in nineteen eighty three the Motorola launched the first commercially available cellular phone book most people thought that they would never be able to afford something like this the phone costs over four thousand dollars and the service was extraordinarily expensive though at the beginning it really was a rich man's toys a big became because Michael didn't it it was I think in the film Wall Street it was so huge compared to today's phones and did to get the nickname the shoe for him well you're right at the beginning that we call the tissue full but you will know that I am an engineer what I name the phone the Donatella Donatella stood for Brits yourself a dynamic adaptive total area coverage with the other tech represented was my dream of what the ultimate phone would be that you could use a matter were you worried that what a day after the environment and they would let you talk to somebody else is though there was nothing between you and we haven't quite achieved but we're getting very close though so there are some advantages to being a dreamer when did you realize just how huge this phenomenon was going to be only after the first several years when they were competitive phones on the market when they were lines of people ordering phones when you found out that in third world countries there were more cellular phones more mobile phones than there were wired phones that's when we knew that we were right that's Marty Cooper who's still inventing he was talking to Louis C. digo and you can see Monty circa nineteen seventy three with his admittedly bulky but none the less groundbreaking mobile phone on our website search for BBC witnesses street finally it's fifty years since a group of rebel nuns broke away from the Catholic authorities and set up their own independent lake community in California the sound like something of a minor event but the move threw a spotlight on the role of religion in the modern world and the position of Catholic orthodoxy Lucy Ben's been speaking to Lucy of an written formally sister Lucia who was one of the rebels.

AT
"at" Discussed on WIBC 93.1FM

WIBC 93.1FM

06:34 min | 6 months ago

"at" Discussed on WIBC 93.1FM

"By you I is going to have all free for one week three point play he made right before the five out was on AT and a final one of all three on the right way rather than take all three the **** and then rejects the fall spring awful first apple he played very well nine point as in the end it was a huge the basketball making things happen at the office of an arm on the second he gets in the game the second half seven attacks the ran as is to be at the office needed right back into this game ten point lead for the Hoosiers comes in a mix of white when Indiana needed to be very careful while Notre Dame because you're not paying attention defensively you start making mistakes doing the things that he did that first leave mom on Franklin shows a great example of how to do it is your local choice for internet voice security and James is for more information a little longer standing out there with a last minute here we come out of there to get the troops together here is a little on good for you everybody on the same page an arm on Franklin five first fall for it is a three point play conversion and he didn't get it to drop any and all loss to Notre Dame on the rebound across the time line with a basketball outside gives the danger comes level chassis he please give is on the left side the bass is actually chassis drives it in low skill set up and couldn't get the role on the rebound comes the joy brought is it also Finnessey who drives the other way pulls up to sixteen feet and misses the jump shot rebounded John moody and movie brings it back for Notre Dame off to get to a halt brother outside the movie movie thurs and often gives gives now with a basketball the White River he throws it outside and Alicia she's hands to go left side down on the porters this time to rebels it back out front now looks tries to work on fantasy camp throws off the gives out of the corner movie for three very Sir John believes this first point to the second half which is nice movies and kind of a slow day and from the standpoint of what he normally is able to accomplish what he knocks that one data that was big for Notre Dame Indiana's lead data ten again outside here is joy broadsoft Franklin top of the queue yes the Jerome hundred to rob for the C. right C. brings it back to the left hand gives to praise Jackson Davis now outside he goes to draw water lock in fires up a three and they're going to call him for travel to pick up for hello James harden three see a lot more here in basketball college basketball is not quite a doctor the new war the NBA has when it comes to that more poorly I think that's a four shot by drummers time on the shock he's coming off the bench I think you've got to fill up a sweat a little bit before you try to take that take the shots Indians got other options all physically right now that are really clicking here this afternoon I think that's a four shot by drones to see Franklin and hunter all go to the adventurers Indiana changes a lot of again the boxes back in so is out there Justin Smith here is down in the line almost got away or did get away with a travel trace crafted out of bounds is repeated are fed outside deliciously and now they will have it on the near side live jobs almost almost travels there it's a good example of Indiana keeping the basketball in front nice defense but off the green throws it right into the hands of the shots you fires a three masted Ellery bad enjoyed drugs hands in the air here's the rain takes it to the left of the circle rose of the quarter to al dura now looks for some help he gave up the gravel gives it over to join the baseline he tries to work on building kicks it out the door drive the scoop off the glass no chip Hannibal finally bad in the movies hands he gives it to her back down the other way finds the chassis in the left side he drives inside it was blocked by trace Jackson Davis and they're going to he may have drawn a charge that was not the case yeah my his it's a little bit of clarity but that's a a position there I'll stay in there for a couple seconds has its feet and offers a player just for us right into the late shift he goes to the free throw line first free throws for him today this guy's really good shooter any very sad when he's got is nine point now you have two three is the first I've got a field goal and now free throw here in the sector and suddenly Indiana's lead ism apparated out into the single digits as he can make an eight point contest of hits the second free to ours nine forty six left this was all kinds of time for the Irish and he has the second and the standpoints Napoli chassis in Indiana he's just an eight point forty eight forty seven the Anaheim nuclear store for because the time line is just about the joy brought on the way sit inside it was kicks a little blog guy you want to balance and Hoosiers will have a down only throw basket Pflueger comes up a little gentry has he has he almost looks like he's got his head down kind of thing that looks like and now he's tries to guard the monitor is just as far as a quick three short Reebok comes long drives inside the lane try to trace Jackson Davis this was a little bit Chris could handle it in India and as for the second time here in this yeah I was a little bit low really tough for trace to come up with it Georgie Miller is in his team right now defensively in the end I need to stop right here and right now cannot allow Notre Dame to get this to this is the right side in the hands of one who goes out to John moody top of the morning there's a to give right good one good one on the way.

AT
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

13:25 min | 9 months ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"From the ACLU this is at liberty I'm Emerson Sykes Afra Turney here at the ACLU and your hosts just across the southern order in Mexico tens of thousands of asylum seekers are stranded in squalid dangerous conditions they're seeking refuge in the United States but the US government won't let them in that's because of a trump administration policy widely known as remain in Mexico which forces the vast majority of asylum-seekers coming through the southern border to wait in Mexico while the US considers their cases the remain in Mexico policy is one of many new anti immigrant measures designed to Coz America's doors to people fleeing persecution it's human impact has been staggering shelters and Mexican border cities are overwhelmed and many asylum seekers are homeless according to human rights groups scores of silence leakers have been kidnapped extorted and sexually abused at the hands of cartels and criminal gangs for many access to the asylum system and the US side of the border is out of reach we're joined today by a Shoka Mokpo journalists working at the Aclu he recently traveled to see your dad whereas and Matamoros on the Mexican side of the border to get a sense of what life is like for the asylum seekers stranded there we'll also hear from US three Dominquez director of the ACLU's border right-center about the broader fight for immigrant's rights we'll start with the Rocca who's with me in studio a quick note for listeners getting in the spirit of the Halloween season you might hear some creek in the background it's just our forty storey buildings swaying the wind a show thanks very much for joining us welcome to the podcast thanks for having me so you're reporting from Mexico last week for the ACLU tell us what you're doing there so we thought that it was important to go to Mexico to actually speak to some of the asylum-seekers trapped at the border there so that we could hear directly from them about what their experiences are and get a sense of what the conditions are for people who are stuck there right now before we win it down to her and I worked with the Mexican photographer named Guillermo yes a little bit nervous about how hard it was going to be to find people where we're going to need you search different places until we find people who are willing to talk to us and in fact what happened was basically everywhere we went we found the kind of stories that I've been reading in newspaper accounts of people who had been kidnapped people who've been exposed to violence at the border it was kind of crushingly easy to attract people down and what stands out at me in terms of what I saw is just incredible amount of vulnerability and fear these are people who have made incredibly challenging journeys are fleeing real danger and persecution in countries that have serious gang problems political repression in some cases act of conflicts and instead of finding safety inside the United States they've been returned back dangerous situations in Mexico there is this sense of concern nervousness outright fear and feeling very perplexed about what is this system that I'm trapped in am I going to be able to make the asylum claim I thought that America was a place that could come to find safety and shelter and instead just being sort of trapped in this limbo so can you just Orient as briefly all the folks that you talked to are subject to remain in Mexico policy is that correct well is a little bit of a mixed bag so the trump administration has been very very skillful I think is word that you could use to describe it in constructing an entire laddis network of policies that have essentially dismantled the asylum system so remain in Mexico is the most well known because it applies to so many people but they've also implemented a policy called metering which traditionally when someone was making an asylum claim they would just go up to the border they were requested asylum from C. N. and they'd be processed and put into the system likely detained for some period of time perhaps released depending on the case and just see BP agent is a customs and border patrol who's in charge of policing the border yeah customs and Border Protection and now under metering what they've done is squeezed the number of people who can be processed at any checkpoints tiny tiny trickle so this applies particularly to asylum seekers from Mexico itself particularly in the southern part of Mexico there's a lot of cartel violence general political repression conditions people feel like they need to flee and remain in Mexico actually doesn't apply to them because again nationalistic can't be returned back to the country that they're seeking asylum from so instead happenings are being metered which means they're given a number her and told well when the number it's called up then you can come back to the border and we'll hear your case and process you through the system so in that case you had people who were living the in tent camps right next to the borders very very squalid burr difficult conditions and then in addition to them yeah most of who we met where people were subjected to the Mexican or policy that conditions in these camps who were providing the basic services with food the shelter anything about how they can make their way through the Alan process but I think that's kind of the problem is really the answer that question is nobody it depends on the city that you go to so in Moscow Moros is particularly our city so the Rio Grande valley which encompasses cities like Reynosa Nueva Laredo and Montoneros their Mexican stay called tumbled leap us the states bins issued a travel warning to some elite it's on the same level as at places like Afghanistan and Syria meaning it's so dangerous that the State Department tells Americans not to travel there at all so this city Montemurro so dangerous that the shelter facilities are very very limited so people have instead chosen to set up this tent yup that's right at the border it's sort of pavement and dirt area that's right next to the bridge that leads to Brownsville Texas and I think that that's one of the most heartbreaking things you have people who are waiting for these district court dates that are two months three months in the future living intense and you can see the united states in safety just right over the horizon I mean it's so close you can throw a football over it and actually there's been cases of people who've tried to cross the river who've just been so desperate eddings by this long wait he's impossible conditions and there's a little sort of outcropping above the river where there's a series of crosses who've been set up to mark the children who died when they've tried to make that crossing the conditions in the camp are very very challenging so you asked earlier who's providing food WHO's providing medicine it's really these small kind of ad hoc groups that are coming across the bridge from Brownsville to provide some basic level of humanitarian assistance but all of them sets that it's nowhere near enough for what people need the estimates of the number of people who are in this camp is somewhere on the order of about two thousand people well so many of them are just these tiny children very very young and the day that I reserve actually quite cold and people don't usually associate at southern Texas with the cold but a storm front moved in from Dallas and when we got there so-called the people actually shivering and their teeth chattering so this is not like a condition that people had expected when they made their journeys and they didn't prepare for it rained so hard the night before that a lot of the water had actually flooded into people's tense I spoke with a woman who runs a very small humanitarian aid charity and she told me that the medical needs for people in the camp are just completely overwhelming and her it just doesn't have the ability to really provide the kind of things that people need this is someone who's worked in Syria she's worked in Bangladesh Pakistan and she told me that the conditions in the camp reminded her of some of these places but the difference is in a refugee camp in Bangladesh for example to take care of Rohingya refugees you have the presence of a lot of United Nations agencies UNICEF there you'd have unhcr these agencies that actually have the capacity to do things like register of how many people are in the camp how many children the camp what the kind of medical conditions that everybody has but the United Nations is not actually come to set up these type of not yet what this means for people there is that there's really almost nothing to protect them and take care of them and it's just so shameful as an American heatedly our just kind of look around at this camp and see these these children are running around with mud all over their feet you know clearly look like they're a little bit sick I think to myself we're doing this to them this is not a byproduct of natural disaster this is not an event that's just some act of God that there was no way to prevent is an intentional policy that's intended to place people in this situation I found that to be very very shameful what's a devastating picture that you paint ain't than you mentioned that Mexican asylum seekers are metered but folks from other countries are subjected to this remain in Mexico policy in many of the folks you talk to you can you just tell us sort of what is the progression of their attempts to to seek asylum you know they apply for Salomon than they're put back in Mexico wait for these long off court dates and many of whom I understand are never even able really to to make those court so I think the important thing to remember about it all these policies is that the intention is not to streamline or fix the asylum system is to break it so what they want is to make it so different gold for people to claim asylum that they give up the typical I'd say for someone who's placed into what they call the migrant protection protocols which is a misnomer it's not pretty acting anybody is they will show up for their initial screening with the C. b. p. officer and traditionally Dow would lead to an interview with an asylum official this is a little bit complicated so I don't want to far into the weeds but it used to be that a specially trained asylum officer would run an interview with someone as they claimed asylum to see how credible their fear of persecution laws and what we're reading now is actually the process has been placed in the hands of CB P agents whose priority really isn't to help someone who needs to find safety their priority is an institution is to keep the borders is closed as they can't that's their mandate so what happening is people make their asylum clam and then they're told typically okay well here's your court date you have to go back to Mexico and eight and what's your court date comes up you can come back to the border show this piece of paper then we'll take you to court what they don't know most people aren't informed about this is that only the first court date of what could be multiple multiple caring's in front of a judge so someone is going to get one of these pieces of paper that says come back in three months come back in two months and there's no program to save for these three months here's a place for us to put you here's some kind of assistance for some way for us to shepherd in teach you what you're going to need to know successfully navigate this process it's really just kind of dumped across the border right technically what they're supposed to do it is as they're processing the asylum system if they say I am afraid to go back to Mexico they're supposed to be placed in a secondary interview process that assesses the fear that they might have and how you know whether it matches the threshold that they need to be exempted from the program but in practice that's really happening that's something that we heard from people repeatedly so even as harsh punitive is this policy is from it's internal logic of what it's supposed to comply with based on its regulation ends those aren't even being followed people say I'm afraid to go back to Mexico and often just said that's not our problem and people have legitimate fears about remaining in Mexico yeah absolutely like I said before I wondered before I got there was going to be difficult to track these types of stories down and in fact everybody I talked to had just unbelievably devastating story to tell so one woman that we met in a shelter in Ciudad Juarez told us the story that when she was close to the southern border that she was actually kidnapped by Mexican police the line the trump administration is giving us is that Mexico's safe it's fine there's who extorted her and sent messages that she actually played to me from her phone back to her family really I think shed light on the fact that there's really nobody to take care of these folks Dr Some people in Mexico there are some government officials are some shelter workers there's legal advocates who are just running around like crazy everything that they can't take care of his population but there's also equally a tremendous number of people who see them as prey okay let's listen to a bit of that interview.

ACLU Emerson Sykes Afra Turney United States Mexico three months two months
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

12:53 min | 10 months ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"From the a._c._l._u. this is at liberty. I'm emerson sykes a staff advocacy here at the a._c._l._u. and your host starting with the muslim ban in the early days of the trump presidency. This administration has announced new policies designed to keep immigrants out on a nearly weekly basis. This feels like an unprecedented wave waiver restrictions but anti-immigrant rhetoric and policies have deep roots in our country here to discuss another period in american history when the nation's gates were slammed shut is is daniel okrand an award-winning writer and editor. His most recent book is the guard gate bigotry eugenics and the law that kept two generations of jews italians aliens and other european immigrants out of america the book details the political dynamics created anti-immigrant zeal in the early twentieth century and the junk science that was used to justify justify it daniel estrin. Thanks very much for joining us. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks very much less than happy to be here. Your book tells an interesting story from the early part of our a twentieth century and in many ways you track a debate that culminates in the immigration act of nineteen twenty four. Can you start by telling us about that. Law and what restrictions it imposed the nineteen twenty four act was by far the most severe immigration restriction law in american history. I reduced the number of immigrants allowed into the country into one hundred sixty thousand as recently as ten twelve years before that over a million coming in every year and then most importantly it established national quotas otas based on the percentage of people from each nation that were already in the u._s. So that for instance ten percent of americans <hes> could trace their origins to to country abe and ten percent of the immigrants would be from country a. and the worst part of it. They didn't use the nineteen twenty cents to determine this or the nineteen ten or even the one thousand nine hundred sentences. They went back to eighteen ninety. The last census before the huge immigration from eastern and southern europe began and computed the shares that each nation asian would have from that so that the consequence was that as many as two hundred twenty thousand italians had come any year previous to the nineteen twenty four act in the nineteen twenty four act reduced used fewer than five thousand and similarly for all other eastern and southern european people in that state in place for forty one years well. It's fascinating that there was both an overall cap but also as you said these national quotas both of which resonate with the current time but sticking with the period that covered in your book. Can you tell us about what sort of political dynamics came together to give life to this act well. There were a number of things first of all the inherent xenophobia that has cropped up in american history from the very beginning you go back as far as seventeen fifties where a newspaper editor and pennsylvania wrote that the pennsylvania colony was being destroyed droid by the influx of germans were coming into not only to hurt the colony as a whole but also to even destroy the english language that was a newspaper editor named benjamin in franklin on to indicate how deep these routes are and then it goes at like a sine wave throughout american history and times of economic stress. Usually the immigrants are the first people to be blamed and i people do people want to keep out there was a period when immigrants were wanted very badly in the period after the civil war when bodies were needed to hugh the forests and to build the railroads and then when you get to the eighteen ninety s and there are so many economic trouble than a big anti immigration movement begins gents the sine wave pattern we certainly can trace through our history and i wanna come back to that but you talked about the issue of xenophobia and specifically race race played an interesting role. It's not exactly how we understand race today but race was central to the debate in one thousand nine hundred four absolutely true and what we mean by race is very different from what was meant by race at the time this cockeyed view of race the really divided <hes> even the european people's into variety of different races so that the predominant interview put forth by a really very linda anti-immigrant anti-semitic anti-catholic new york aristocrat madison grant he maintained that there were the three european races the nordics who are tall and blonde and brave and they built <hes> western culture the alpine's who are somewhat shorter and they were all right and they were artisans artisans and needed to have them around in the mediterranean's who were the lowest of the low they were short swarthy and they weren't worth a lot and of course that was speaking specifically about the italians talion whom grant despised and he said that the merger between any two the marriage between any two people from these groups automatically the offspring bring would revert to the lower forms of nordic married an alpine their children would be alpine's and if an alpine married a mediterranean their children would be mediterraneans and he wrote wrote the marriage between any two members of any of the european races and a jew would yield jew and the sense that there was a racial distinction not just a religious or culture or ethnic nationality distinction between say italians and greeks and austrians and germans really was unprecedented when there were different kinds of white people and the white people of the eastern european nations were deemed inferior the one one drop rule among europeans exactly exactly like that so yeah. You're right emerson to point out the comparison to today. I think that when trump began office and he was trying to keep out muslims from the arab countries he could have said he was trying to keep about arabs and the current controversy at the southern border the so-called recalled rapists and murderers and invaders that he has repeatedly invoked as directed against hispanics so you have a repeat of what happened in the nineteen teens and twenties leading leading nineteen twenty four act the consequences of that act were of course dreadful in tragic because of the number of europeans who could not leave your for the u._s. In the years following nineteen twenty four and this is in many ways sort of run of the mill prejudice racism that people have had throughout history he but there was an interesting dynamic that developed in the early twenties around eugenics. Can you tell us about eugenics and the role that it played in the development of this anti immigrant craze as sure this anti immigrant grades begins in the eighteen nineties with the influx of these in europe ian jews and the italians into the eastern cities of the us and from that point forward forward the anti immigration movement tried to enact laws that would cut down on immigration was led by senator henry cabot lodge the most powerful member of the senate in the period and and four times between eighteen ninety six and nineteen seventeen the congress passed laws that would have reduced immigration from those countries and four times james president's veto those laws and usually they would be to on the grounds that you know we our country of freedom and we make no distinction between nationalities. All all are welcome here. We are a nation of immigrants so the anti-immigrants needed to come up with something else and what they found was eugenics which if you'll excuse the expression was the bullshit science the the determined that there were different qualities of not just individuals but of ethnic and national groups and the eugenics movement begins in the u._k. U._k. really in the wake of darwin back in the eighteen sixties across the ocean in nineteen hundred and at first it was used to say well. We don't want people coming in who have obvious disabilities who are the term of art of the time was feeble minded <hes> they didn't want epileptics. They didn't want the blinds and want the death but by nineteen fifteen nineteen sixteen when madison grant wrote his book suddenly the the anti immigrationist who had been losing the political battle. They seized upon this and said this isn't in prejudice. We don't dislike these people. We have science that proves there inferior and we must pay attention to what science tells us and from that moment forward from nineteen mm fifteen thousand nine hundred sixteen until the passage of the nineteen twenty four law. It was eugenic argument that carried the day. I think probably the most chilling part of your book is the way that eugenics became common. Knowledge accepted by a huge variety of different people and subgroups within in the united states. What does it mean when the accepted science is wrong. It's pretty terrifying. We see the consequences of it. Then the as you say it was the accepted science the number of institutions that either added to the eugenic argument or spread the doctrine of the genyk argument. It's kind of scary. It was the cold spring harbor laboratories long out and it was the american museum of natural history. It was prominent faculty members at princeton and columbia and stanford the carnegie. <hes> institution of washington provided the financial support the harriman family they almost single-handedly paid for the initial eugenic research in the u._s. The rockefeller voter foundation was behind it so you had virtually the entire mass of american science and those who supported american science saying that eugenics was something that had scientific merit so it was not a surprise when the politicians picked up that call that people listen well. We're not prejudiced as i said before. We're not prejudiced first. We are just following the rules of science or is one particular <hes> anti-immigration leader a staunch progressive in fact in early backer the american civil liberties union said at the time you know we love the jews but that is we want them anywhere near us because it's dangerous. One of the central arguments in your book is around how how people's inherent prejudice led to public policy and then how eugenics was used to bolster that policy but it's a little bit complicated to understand dan what started this process and what was a legitimate belief by these people and what was just used as an excuse. How do you untangle that causal not. It's very very hard time tangle it but i think at its base inherent prejudices that pre existed even the arrival of the eastern europeans southern the europeans and then was aggravated by the large numbers that were suddenly visible to the anti immigration as the prejudices were there there was a built in prejudice particularly among the upper classes of the northeast and you find some of the noblest figures in our history embrace these prejudices and then when they stumbled and i think that was really the term when they stumbled across the genyk argument. They saw it as oh. I've been right all along. This proves my point that these people are inferior. If you begin with the prejudice and then you are provided an intellectual justification for your prejudice. It's not only gratifying. It's very very effective when we've talked a bit about what led to the immigration act of nineteen twenty four but let's play the the story a little bit forward what brought an end to this crazy world war two and the rise of the nazis what's he's in germany played a critical role absolutely what you see happening around <hes> one thousand nine hundred thirty one thousand nine hundred thirty two and then accelerating in the middle thirties is at the institutions that had supported the genyk arguments suddenly realize oh my god look what we've done and they begin to run away from it. They begin to drop their support for some say they you were never involved in it but there's this very clear almost humiliating sense that <hes> that these bogus arguments of these scientists have put forward are are the justification for the nazis and in fact there was a great deal of of connection between the american eugenics scientists and that's eugenic scientists they have been collaborating on various projects not necessarily race base but they knew each other very well. They have been collaborating for thirty years and you know as late as nineteen thirty. One of the leading german eugenic scientists comes the u._s._c. tours this various universities he goes to the cold spring harbor labs where he's accepted as almost as brother and this was the man who later wrote the nazi euthanasia statutes was given the gift of metal by hitler in nineteen thirty nine for all he had done to support the aryan race and he see <hes> even if the american eugenicist had not been meaning to promote nazi thought it was inevitable. Hitler read the eugenics textbooks while he was in prison. Even after the munich beer hall putsch nearly twenty s <hes> he cited madison grant in speeches and the connections were in variable so that finally at the end of world war two and nineteen forty six at the doctor's trial in nuremberg the nazi physicians. They used as their defense said well. Look what you're american. Scientists were saying we were only doing what they were doing and as i say in the book you know we're used to the phrase <hes> well..

madison grant united states europe hitler editor writer and editor pennsylvania american civil liberties union america daniel estrin mediterranean american museum of natural trump europeans emerson rockefeller voter foundation senate
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

15:27 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"From the ACLU. This is at liberty. I'm Emerson Sykes a staff attorney here at the ACLU and your host. With increased mainstream understanding of the long and deep history of racism in the United States, some issues that have long been overlooked in academic and policy debates are now gaining traction, one example is reparations broadly defined as some form of repayment for the harms inflicted on enslaved peoples and their descendants in more recent years advocacy, by the national African American reparations commission and other groups has raised the prominence of the idea it has become a twenty twenty presidential campaign issue. And the house of representatives were hold a historic hearing next week on HR forty a Bill to set up a commission to study reparations. So why reparations still important in two thousand nineteen how reparations work in practice, and what are the prospects for genuine change? We'll discuss these questions and more with my colleague, Geoffrey Robinson, a deputy legal director, at the ACLU where he runs the Trone center for Justice and equality. Jeff is a distinguished criminal defense attorney sought after speaker on race in America. Jeff. Thanks very much for joining us today. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Well, so we're speaking a few days before June teams. And I'm wondering what does June teeth mean to you and feel free to explain to our listeners who are less familiar with June? Teens what it is. Well, many people may recognize that June teens June nineteenth is a day when the word that the war was over that the enslaved people were actually going to be free was celebrated for the first time. So that day has both historical and philosophical, meaning as we look back now a hundred and fifty four years after the civil war ended to where we are in two thousand nineteen and this year on June nineteenth some special programming. What are you going to be up to this year? Well on June nineteenth, we expect there to be hearings in congress led by? Representative Sheila jackson-lee to actually discuss and investigate the reasons why HR forty should be passed and immediately following those hearings at one PM in the afternoon. We are going to be at the historical metropolitan AME church in Washington DC for a three hour event, a national form for healing and reconciliation on HR forty and the promise of reparations for African Americans, we are going to have speakers who will address the issue, some who testify in congress and others who will just be present on the panels will present that afternoon. And I am extremely excited about the opportunity to get this information out to as broad, a part of the public as possible. And of course, reparations is not a new idea. But h r forty has been introduced a number of time. Over the last several decades. What do you think is different now? Why is this issue gaining a bit more attraction? That's an interesting question, what I know is that the willingness and the insistence on discussing issues of racial Justice, in our political life has become much, much more prominent over the last five to ten years, and that's the process, where Americans don't like to talk about race. We, you know, wanted to talk about being post-racial when Barack Obama was elected, and people would just assume for get what America's history truly is. And I think part of that reason that people want to forget is the knowledge that if we acknowledge who we are. And what we've actually done, then there's a count ability for that. It seems to me that discussions of accountability for racial. Justice have increased in the last number of years. Bear are activists who have been the hind this. There are police shootings that have brought people to perhaps a different view of racism in America, just a combination of things. And for me understanding exactly why there is this new in heightened interest is important, but what I think is more important is understanding what to do at this moment, while I want to dig in a little bit deeper, on the history that we're trying to address, obviously hosting these events and the hearing on June teens is symbolic as you said, June teen celebrates the time when the news of the emancipation proclamation finally reached the last enslave, folks in Texas. But reparations is not just about slavery. I mean you talked about police shootings, and all of the other ways in which racism continues to affect the United States. So. Can you talk about the relationship between reparations in slavery, and also ensuing instances of racism, and disenfranchisement in the United States? Well, I think or many people when you talk about reparations the first reaction is why would we do that? No one alive today was inflamed and that's absolutely true. Slavery is not something that our generation or current Americans thought of or imposed or try to protect early in our history, but it is our shared history, and many American, simply want to wipe that out. So if we understand that America has existed longer with slavery, then without slavery spent a hundred and fifty four years since the end of the civil war America existed with slavery for two hundred and forty six years, almost a quarter. Millennium. Now, there is no amount of material resource or money compensation than ever be sufficient restitution for the economic spiritual mental cultural physical damage that was implicted on African Americans who are in slaved here. But what we have to understand is that it didn't just end in eighteen sixty five because what followed was the rise of the KKK, Jim crow laws and black codes in the south that were designed to keep blacks, as close to the condition of slavery as possible. Let's remember that in eighteen ninety five separate but equal was declared the law of America. Not just the custom and the law of the south which continued after the civil. A war. But now, the United States Supreme court is saying that someone that looks like me urinating in the same toilet as a white person, somehow demeans, that white person. And we can't allow that somebody that looks like me sitting next to a white person on a train, which is what Plessey versus Ferguson was all about. We can't allow that because that's somehow demeans, the white person. That's white supremacy. And there's no other term for it know that you can try and be more comfortable so people aren't offended, but there's simply no other term for it and people after realize that, that was the law of the United States for eighty nine years after the civil war, and till nineteen fifty four. So even if we wanted to say, let's just assume at the nineteen sixty five civil rights at just white. The slate clean and eliminated. Racism in America, and eliminated all future racism in America, and we know that's a joke, but just assume that that's true. Blacks in America have been quote unquote free for about fifty four years. And so when you put that into context, you can understand why the descendants of African American slaves are still being impacted by the vestiges of slavery today in two thousand nineteen specifically jar forty says it's a commission to study and develop reparation proposals for African Americans to examine slavery and discrimination in the colonies in the United States from sixteen nineteen to the present. And I think the examples that you brought up in terms of sitting next to each other on the train, or, or using the same water fountain are sort of emblematic of the old, Jim crow and reconstruction. But one of the points that we can point to wear reparations became a part of the mainstream debate was a twenty fourteen article by Thanh hoc- coats, and one of the things that really struck me about that articles that he says, look, racism. As we're talking about it in terms of reparations is not just about people being mean to each other or not being kind to each other, but it's really about theft. And so, I wonder if you can talk a little bit about those instances of outright theft. Well, or advanced when many people here, the term of -firmative action, what they think of our programs of uplift in the sixties and seventies trying to help black Americans get a foot forward and those programs were deemed to be reverse racism, affirmative action has been used to advantage, white Americans since the beginning of the history of this country. And if you think about it this way, is there, any greater or more extreme example of affirmative action than giving one race of people be ability to own another race? That's just the first example in sixteen nineteen in August of this year, we will be facing the phone. Four hundred anniversary of the first enslaved people coming to the United States, twenty and odd people. And that's how it was described in the historical documents came to America in sixteen nineteen a hundred and seventy years later, there were seven hundred thousand if you have ever held a piece of cotton in your hand, and I don't mean a piece of cotton, you pull out of an aspirin bottle, but a piece of picked cotton from field, you will know that a ball of cotton is as light, as a feather will by seventeen ninety America was producing one point five million pounds of cotton a year. I can't tell you how many cotton balls, it took to get to one point five million pounds. But I can tell you how many enslaved people that took the pick him seven hundred thousand in a hundred seventy years. We went from twenty or. Or so people to seven hundred thousand and America was getting rich fast forward to the civil war. Eighteen sixty the eve of the civil war cotton was now sixty percent of all United States. Exports yearly cotton production was now two point three billion pounds a year, and that's seven hundred thousand slave people in seventy years from seventeen ninety to eighteen sixty it had now, grown to four million and remember in eighteen o eight given the rule set in the constitution, the importation of such persons, because remember the word slave appears once in our constitution in the thirteenth amendment that preserves it for people who have been convicted of a crime. It doesn't appear anywhere else because the south thought that word was kinda harsh. And so they used such persons, for example. And in one article the constitution, it says you don't stop the importation of such persons until eighteen o eight and we know that there were a couple of ships of enslaved people that came to America after eighteen o eight, but the major trade from Africa was ended right around that time. So how do you go from seven hundred thousand people to four million in seventy years? You breed people like cattle. And if you go to places like Charleston, South Carolina to the slave mart museum, you can still see the price list for what you could die and enslaved African for and the highest price on that list, or girls, especially girls like between seven eight nine years old because by eleven or twelve you could start getting them. And you could start pumping out new enslaved people that you didn't have to purchase and improve your stock of ownership. This is the way America in rich itself from sixteen nineteen all the way to eighteen sixty five well, it's a tragic story but it continues. I know that the ACLU is about to publish a series of blogs, on reparations in one of them is about terrorism and economic injustice after slave -ment and tells of her stories of lynchings, and terrorism and theft of people's land and property and lives throughout the United States, post emancipation as well. Well, if you go back to eighteen ninety five and Plessey versus Ferguson that started one of the most violent periods of racial is terrorism in the United. States, starting in eighteen seventy seven and going to nineteen fifty. There were more than four thousand documented racial terror lynchings in America. And if you look at this attested from eighteen sixty eight to nineteen sixty eight what you've come up with is basically that for a century, an average of one black person a week was lynched in America, now, that is a method that is used to ensure that black people understand formal slavery may be over. But don't go thinking that you're equal in this country. One of the prime examples of this is the Tulsa massacre, and for people who haven't heard of it, if they Google or look on the internet, what you're most likely to find is the Tulsa riot of nineteen twenty one and people should understand the. Blacks and Tulsa, Oklahoma didn't do anything except die in this.

America United States national African American repa ACLU theft Jim crow Jeff Plessey congress Emerson Sykes Tulsa Barack Obama Geoffrey Robinson Trone center for Justice Sheila jackson-lee Texas
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

06:26 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Which I wanted to try to help to change for the better. What are some of the most pertinent issues that really started out working on the border? So when we first started this project the border litigation project. We were looking at certain issues that in some ways are very classic police practices problems, racial profiling. Whether people have the right to photograph or monitor law enforcement, whether community members can refuse to answer questions in border patrol checkpoint, especially when they've been identified as citizens for years and years because it's a super rural area and everyone knows including the agent that this person is a citizen. So why are they being stopped and asked about their citizenship questions like that I think that as time has passed and the emphasis on the border as a construct and galvanizing idea for certain bases has taken off the work has shifted and become even more life or death. Now, you have a full frontal assault on asylum, a real deviation from our obligations both under international law and our own domestic law to provide a place for asylum seekers to seek refuge and a lot of. Policies and practices that have been implemented in the last three or four years that really just speak to cruelty, they're unnecessary. Their counter productive, and they're not always easy to address through litigation. And so the other shift has been an ongoing effort building on work that border communities have been doing for years to try to educate the American public about what the border is. And what it isn't. Because I think that the misconceptions that persist are how these negative narratives have been able to come to hold so much sway. Appreciate your distinction between the border as it's imagined in people's minds versus the actual border as his give us a bit of context for what we're talking about when we actually do discuss the border, the so let's start with the department of homeland security D H S and some of this is alphabet soup. So does take some getting used to the department of homeland security has multiple. Uil sub parts three of the chief pieces of that department are related to immigration to our enforcement entities and one is a services entity. So the enforcement side of house, such as it is includes ice, which is immigration and customs enforcement, and is what most people think of when they think about immigration enforcement in America. This is where the abolish ice movement hashtag has really taken off in certain corners. But what's interesting is a lot of people including elected officials will use the abolish ice language when they're actually talking about the border patrol. So then the question is what's the border patrol the other enforcement arm in DHS is US customs and border protection. C B P and part of CB P is the US border patrol. CB P is the largest law enforcement agency in the United States. It has over sixty thousand officials within that are more than nineteen thousand border patrol agents. It's according to federal statute. Those officials are empowered to enforce certain federal laws within a quote unquote reasonable distance from the US border, a nineteen Fifty-three regulation, which as far as we can tell was enacted with no discussion or debate. There's no legislative history. We don't know how it came to be in place defines reasonable distance as one hundred air miles from any external boundary of the United States, the border patrol and CB p have interpreted that to include for example, one hundred air miles from the Great Lakes shores one hundred miles from any airport, which says a border. So if you look at a map, according to their interpretation of this regulation, two thirds of the population of the United States lives in the border people who would never think of themselves as Boorda residence. My. Favorite example, is the entire state of Vermont is in the border. So all Vermonter 's our border residents. Now, some Vermonter is clearly know that because they're up near Canada. But I don't think any American if you ask them, what is the US border would immediately think of Vermont, and increasingly especially since this administration came into power. The agency has started to say that that's the minimum distance where there are thority lies. So they're even shoeing that very expansive definition as a limiting principle. Is you said is responsible for enforcement inside of the interior of the United States construct of the interior in the border is false because border patrol is in the interior. I think a lot of people think about the interior as though it's distinct, but I'll give you an example in one of my freedom of information act lawsuits, we sought documents related to interior enforcement by the border patrol in southern California. And we got records showing that were patrol with stopping people. And this is before this administration. We're talking twenty twelve twenty thirteen two thousand fourteen people were being stopped in Orange County or in Los Angeles. Now, again, I think most people reasonably sort of practically oriented people would say the border is the border at the south. And so we're talking hundreds of miles north of the border with Mexico. But that if you view it from the coast. Of California or Los Angeles International airport. There's an argument that that's one hundred miles. And so it counts as the border, so more and more you see border patrol duplicating the enforcement of ice, which leads to many questions, including why do we need to federal agencies to do this kind of work? And the thing about CB p that I think a lot of people don't realize understandably

United States California department of homeland Los Angeles International airp CB P Uil Vermont DHS assault Mexico Vermonter Great Lakes Los Angeles America Orange County Canada Boorda residence four years
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

05:04 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"You tell me a little bit about your client. Rocky myers. What was his life like before? He was arrested. Rocky grab he's one of ten children born in New Jersey, his father was a severe alcoholic a lot of abuse. Growing up in the household until the father kind of left the picture for a period of time and rocky was raised a lot by single mom who didn't have money to fade or children a lot of times. He eventually in school was put into special education. In program where he was separately schooled because of intellectual difficulties that he had when rocky moved to Alabama. He was married and had four children. But had also been struggling with a drug addiction problem. They moved to Alabama to kind of separate himself from that from the environment that he was in and his wife had family in the Decatur area. And did you have any history of violence? No, sir. Maybe can you help me understand how you came to this case, I understand that you came across this case. I I did at the office here where the we have the capital habeas unit for the federal defenders, and we were newly formed back in two thousand and three. I believe rocky had his attorney drop his case and he had another person on death row assist. Him. With reading the information that he received from the attorney general's office. They were ready to schedule an execution date for him and told him that if he wanted to file a federal habeas petition. He was going to need to find someone to represent him at that point his friend helped him and called equal Justice initiative here in Montgomery EJ. I called our office and asked us to assist in helping rocky file a federal habeas petition in that was in two thousand and four which we did. So I immediately started working on his case and investigated his case and just to clarify. What is the role of an investigator in case like this? I'm a licensed, clinical social worker and work as an investigator in this office. So what we do is. We review all of the clients cases, we investigate everything that happened that resulted in the conviction. We also investigate. Everything that happened during the sentencing part of the trial, and so after visiting with rocky in heaven and understanding that he had some intellectual difficulties one of my big part in the role of this was to try to find out the information about his learning difficulties. So I met with family members up in New Jersey. I went to the schools up there and try to get records on rocky. And so did a really big investigation into his pass -ocial history. But at the same time because there were issues with his conviction. We also looked at talking to all the witnesses that testified at core. Because so many of them changed their stories. And then we found it's called a Brady claim. So we try to figure that out and do the fact investigation to prove that well when it come back to the myriad. Issues with his conviction. But I'm interested in what kind of picture those conversations painted of rocky Myers said you spoke to a lot of folks in his family, and that he grew up with what kind of picture did they paint of rocky picture that they painted of rocky was a person who was a nice, man. Good, man. Some of what Casey didn't mention about his upbringing was that he did come from a family, very active in their church. There were several people that were gifted musicians and singers. I mean, they actually toward some of the family members as a Christian docile group. So there was a lot of discussion about his faith and his beliefs that he was a good, man. But also that he did struggle having trouble learning and understanding and comprehending things. Description would be he was slow like he was slow at school and couldn't keep up. But then as Casey. Mentioned at some point because I think of his generational family history with addiction rocky became addicted and use drugs, but rocky never was convicted of anything or involved in anything that had any sort of physical altercations or violence. Well, it's really helpful background. Both in terms of what your role is in the kind of work that you do. But also understanding a bit more about Mr..

Rocky myers Casey New Jersey Alabama attorney investigator Montgomery EJ Decatur Brady
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

03:49 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"And so that's a part of the movie that as we were making kept getting louder and louder seeing dick Durbin question Cavanaugh about unitary executive theory looking back at Alito being questioned about it hearing the AG has been questioned by congress. And I think this is thing that Cheney certainly stood for he always believed an expansion of executive powers, and so on a legal literal level, there's that side of the movie on an emotional storytelling level. I think it's once again, the story of we have to citizens always be checking power that if we take our eyes off the ball, even for a couple years just assume power spreading whenever we're not vigilant with it as soom it's spreading and it's becoming unchecked. And that makes it a potential danger. And we just have to always be demanding transparency. And whenever we don't have that transparency. We should be very very concerned. Well, wanted to end our dramatic in deep discussion with a couple of lighter questions one. On behalf of my dad, who's a fly fishing enthusiasts. I wanted to ask about your use of the fly fishing metaphor throughout the story. There's a scene in the midst of the post nine eleven attack chaos, a close up of a catfish. I think under the water and later on in the final credits, you use flies as the sort of visual hook so to speak. Can you talk about why you chose to fixate on the the fly fishing, and can you give my liberal dead permission to continue to engage in this? Despite the fact that Dick Cheney's favorite pastime. Well, there's a quote from Lynne Cheney, and we played with the idea of putting it in the front of the movie, but it felt too obvious. She just said, look if you want to understand my husband, you have to know one thing. He's apply. Fishermen it explains. Everything about them. There's a patience to it. There's a level of catching every detail methodical nature. And it's the thing that Dick Cheney had Donald Rumsfeld didn't have Donald Rumsfeld as much louder much more impatient Lynn to a little bit more combative, although very brilliant. And the thing that Cheney had was he knew how to take a loss like when he tried to push H W Bush and the ninety one Iraq war to not seek the approval of congress of the UN and not do a coalition H W told him, no way, you're crazy and Cheney fell into the mode of good foot soldier and did his job as secretary defense. He understood how to take losses and move on. And I think the key to the entire movie is really the conversation. He has with his daughters when they're very young early in the movie. And they say are are we tricking the fish, and he says you have to find out what the fish wants. And then you use that to catch the fish. And the daughter says a good trick replaying or a bad trick replaying. And he says it's not really either it's fishing. We catch the fish. And then our family gets to eat. So that to me is is the way Cheney views the world, it's all very methodical. It's about process it's about moving forward. There's no real good or bad to it. It's just what he does. And I think in some ways the Republican party took on as well. And that's what those fishing wars are in the end, you see that some of them are like a bible with a hook in it. Like, they'll use religion to get supporters. You see the nine eleven towers which Cheney used to gain power. That's why there's a lawyer and that you see TV with a hook. And they'll use the media to get power. You see the White House? You see a surveillance camera, and these are all the ways that they can hook power. So it's two fold. It's the lore that you use to convince people, and then it's also. Chinese personality. That's slow THAAD ical personality. It's not a good trick or a bad trick. It's fishing in the final question picks up on the of powerful people and their daughters. Why do you think Jared Kushner and vodka Trump walked out?.

Lynne Cheney dick Durbin congress Donald Rumsfeld executive Jared Kushner Alito Republican party tricking White House AG Lynn Cavanaugh W Bush Trump Iraq UN secretary H W
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

06:05 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Executive agency level that have been unhelpful right now. For example, where fighting a rule that will make it harder for immigrants to apply for and receive public benefits, including housing and food stamps, and this threatens to make more people homeless were already hearing reports of people who are afraid to apply for these benefits because they don't want to jeopardize their immigration. Status. And so that's a whole population of people who are now at risk of homelessness. It sounds like a lot of the policy moves. You just described commanded. The Trump administration are of a piece with what you talked about in the Reagan administration continuing to dismantle whatever social safety net. We may still have in this country, are you afraid Maria that the current actions of the Trump administration are going to cause another massive increase in national homelessness. I am afraid. Yes. Not just because of what I just described but also because of the potential unleashing of war, criminals -ation in more violence. I didn't mention the impact or the role of racism in criminalization. But I think that that is a real part of the issue. And people who are homeless are disproportionately people of color even more so than the poverty population. And I think that is part of what is driving the effort to make people invisible or less visible to move people out of town out of downtown out of areas being gentrified, it's not just the visibility of poverty. It's also who is actually being affected and so the increase in racist attacks, thank does not bode well for trends in homelessness, and I am afraid of both increasing numbers and loss of support and increasing harmful actions against people for those of us who share your fear. Do you have any suggestions about what we should be paying attention to how we can get engaged how we can help homeless. Will be more visible. So speaking out, I think is the most important thing that anybody can do and being engaged Linda gli at any level of government. So, you know, if a city council, if you're a city council is considering legislation or policy to address homelessness, either be avoi- said says, let's look at why people are out there. Let's look at people as human beings, let's address their actual needs. Let's not go with criminalization as our response often policy has made the the city council level based on who is most vocal, but at any level of government, it's important to being gauged at the state level. If your state has a homeless Bill rights, you can support that right to Europe resentatives at the federal level right to federal agencies or two. Resident or members of congress and say, this is an issue that matters to us. One piece of good news is that there is some increased attention to this issue in congress in the Senate in particular to housing issues and along with them to issues of homelessness on we have lots of resources on our website were often being called upon to submit letters. We have templates and Maria do wanna tell people just how how they can find you online. They can find us at WWW dot NFC, HP dot org. That's our website were also on Twitter and our Twitter handle is NLC h he homeless. We also have a Facebook page in. We have lots of resources on these issues, we're in December. And I think a lot of people think about charitable giving towards the end of the year. Do you have any tips for people who want to make a donation? That addresses poverty or homelessness for how they can give to reliable organizations that are actually addressing real issues in their communities as a complement to your own legal work. Sure absolutely will for one thing feel free to give to the Law Center. We are the only national organization focused on using the law to end in prevent homelessness. We have a small budget. We leverage a lot of resources last year, we had over six million dollars donated legal services. So any donation to us will be multiplied many times over there many organizations that work on the issue on as well at the local level their groups of provide services direct services, that's important meeting. The day to day survival needs of people who are homeless, but advocacy is also really critical and. It's hard to get resources for advocacy so organizations that are advocating for systemic reform at the local level or the state level. I think should also be considered Maria. Thank you so much for joining us to talk about this today. Thank you Lee. I have appreciated it and enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to at liberty. Good luck. With those end of year. Turtle decisions if you'd like to consider the Law Center, you can find them online at N L, C H P dot org.

Maria congress Law Center Twitter executive Trump Reagan administration Linda gli Europe Facebook avoi Lee HP Senate six million dollars
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

05:35 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Century in the United States. That's actually, maybe a little bit more kinda Harum scare them messy than it is in Europe because the United States is in such flocks. I mean, the country is growing at such a tremendous rate nowhere else in the in the history of the world is a population growing as fast as the population of the United States grows in the nineteenth century. So this is extraordinarily flocks. And then the whole nature of the political system is undergoing this tremendous revolution. So in eighteen twenty eighteen thirties. American politics is democratized when all white men can vote which doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. Whether you're poor whether you pay taxes, whether you can read or write whether you're an immigrant everybody who's a white man can vote, and that's an extraordinary convulsion in American politics. But still people don't know what it means to be a citizen tell a story in the book but in. But in the eighteen sixties, the US attorney general charges fifth staff to go through every federal law in the constitution and whole Spruch or decisions to try to find a definition of the word citizen, and they can't find one like they're just is new definition of what a citizen is. And that work of identifying what a citizen is and establishing requirements for citizenship. That's largely the work of reconstruction. I can see the clear appeal for white men to come to America. They'd be able to vote who else is coming to America during this period of time for most of American history. The majority of European migrants come in families or in family groups, or even you know through this classical late nineteenth century chain migration. Is surely whole towns moving family by family across the Atlantic. With regard to the forced migration of Africans which begins very very early. That trade this really in the fourteen forty s and then begins stretching across the Atlantic by the early sixteenth century the forced African migrants are both women and men, and they're all including children that don't generally come his family's. In fact, the whole work of that trade is separating people from their families, an exception would be Chinese immigrants in the nineteenth century is chiefly men and a lot of Mexican migration in the late nineteenth early. Twentieth. Century is just migrant worker female migrant farm workers in other kinds of migrant workers. It tends to be predominantly men. I'm glad you mentioned Chinese immigrants in particular because one of the things that stands out as kind of a dark Mark in our immigration histories, the Chinese exclusion act, and that seems so starkly different as of you have immigration than say just decades before when people were openly pouring in can you tell us about the period in history where immigration became? Came such a politicized issue. And yes, so there's no federal law restricting immigration before h eighty one. And again, as I've said is there any possible conceivable federal apparatus that could have been forced such a restriction? Right. And that law in from the eighteen eighties is the Chinese exclusion act, and it happens to take place at the very time that the first Jim crow laws are passed laws that are segregating black and white populations in what comes to be called the Jim crow south, the former confederacy, but those things both follow on the developments. Eighteen sixties of the reconstruction period the fourteenth fifteenth amendment in particular the fourteenth amendment which establishes birthright citizenship, which has the effect of meaning that the children of Chinese immigrants are American citizens. And that's one of the arguments against it's a lot of people in congress who are posed to Chinese immigration get very worked up about the fourteenth amendment because of the birthright citizenship not. Because of what it means for Friedman women for the former slaves, but because of what it means for Chinese immigrants, and so the Chinese exclusion act is is sort of backlash against the fourteenth amendment in some ways. Right. And of course, so as Jim crow the whole regime of Jim crow has rejection of the fourteenth fifteenth amendments in the constitutional guarantees citizens and persons of due process and equal protection and the right to vote. So by the this tremendous political reaction to the liberal promises of construction period. Although it's not the case that that inaugurates an era of immigration restriction. I mean, the inaugurates era of Jim crow and the tragedy and atrocity of terrorism essentially terrorism across the former confederacy, and it also inaugurates Chinese exclusion. Which later also attach is to Japanese immigrants as well. Under different comes, but immigration from Europe is still entirely open for all those decades eighteen eighties eighteen nineties, nineteen ten's the mom. Modern regime of immigration restriction is the nineteen twenty four national origins act, which is stabbed his limitations of immigration from Europe. And is it self kind of reaction against progressive era reform, it's a reaction against mass democracy. So if you pull back from these individual moments to look for patterns across the centuries, there will be the ones that won't surprise, you write that extensions of rights to new populations inclusion of abroad, a group of people under the rubric of the people will elicit in response and set of reactions of different sorts that aim to restrict who the people are you've written a fair bit about the link between immigration

Jim crow Europe United States Atlantic Jim crow south America congress US attorney Friedman
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

04:53 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Is looking at simply giving people more access to information on where these systems are when they may have made a decision of that affected my life, and allowing some form of pushback to debate that decision, but at this point the ability to contest, an automated decision is not part of most criminal trials. I think you know, an example from Arkansas in the healthcare space, not the criminal Justice space with help illustrate this. So in two thousand sixteen Arkansas implemented a healthcare out for them that was being used to allocate health benefits to Medicaid patients and not only did it make some really fundamental mistakes. It was implemented in a way that left no room for override by the Medicare worker who was in charge of administering it. And how do we know that the system made mistakes, we know that it made mistakes because legal aid in Arkansas took a case? From somebody who was impacted by the system whose benefits have been cut. You know, we're looking at can home care patients. Right. These are people who often need help getting out of bed in the morning need help eating healthy getting put back into bed. Right. You cut your homecare benefits from twelve hours a week to something much smaller, and you're really endangering that person's ability to lip. So this is not trivial. And the reason we know this is that people raise complaints legal aid began getting calls. They decide to take this case at significant expense and time they were able to get people to review the algorithm. And it was only during the course of litigation that the fundamental salt flaws in the room and the software implementation of the system where uncovered and that was uncovered only after the system had been in use for. Yeah. Exactly. And only through a drawn out and expensive litigation process. So it's it's almost, sir. There are many more systems like this may be less agreed Asli harmful that are in use that we don't know about because they haven't been disclosed or that some people may know about, but that we don't have the resources or the time or the expertise to sort of push on a lawsuit or push for explanations. It sounds like it took a lot of resources just to uncover that particular code was flawed. Do you think that in practice local governments have the expertise or the know how to assess those systems before they're put in place? You know, I think this will vary. I think we have seen a starvation of social services and government services in the US over many years. I think that's a solvable problem. If we looked to fund those type of experts, I mean in New York City, which is the first local government in the nation to the patch legislation that is looking to implement. Albert MC transparency and accountability. What is that mean, what is L MC transparency and accountability mean in practice in this case, it means that the algorithms that are used in government would be disclosed to the public that there would be some form of deliberation around the use of such technologies, and that agencies that were using these technologies would be required to account for their use and hopefully to produce an impact assessment or some other analysis of what the effect of the use of such system would be on the populations. It was being deployed among I caveat, all of these. This is not in the law right now, the law as passed constituted a task force that I am a member of that is going to write a report that will be filed with the mayor's office late twenty nineteen this. Report will then feed into a lawmaking process. That will specify what the substance of Albert make accountability actually looks like in New York. So it sounds like these are the early days for a groundswell, at least at the local government level this systems, your describing have immense implications for people's daily lives their freedom their families. I it sounds like it's hard to really exaggerate the degree to which a decision making could affect us. All is this an inevitable, March towards our minority report dystopia and future or or their ways that the public can have a meaningful say can find out about these systems can object to them before they're controlling our lives. I mean, I don't believe in inevitability. I would just stop working if I did. A couple of years ago when these systems were being put in place, we didn't have this conversation..

Albert MC Arkansas New York City Medicare Medicaid L MC US twelve hours
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

04:37 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Such a diverse stay that may be the most of her state. I think so Florida may be competing with Los Angeles. Not even New York has maybe the most diverse area of of the country. It is the face of the emerging America. And in that respects, Florida does reflect I think the rest of the country. Howard. You are retiring after your twenty years of service to the CEO Florida is there. I mean if I can step in. Twenty one years in Florida and twenty three years prior to that has executive director of the ACLU of Michigan Michigan because I actually want to ask you you spent twenty plus years leading the in both states. How would you compare those gigs? Do civil liberties look the same in Michigan and Florida I realized they were in different time periods to so I don't mean to compare apples and oranges. But what would be your main takeaway doing civil liberties advocacy in those two jobs Michigan? You know, like a lot of the upper midwest Wisconsin in soda, you know, they come out of the progressive tradition. The labor union for dishing the ACLU actually Michigan grew out of the UAW. And so they are some deep progressive roots there in the labor union, Florida is a new state. It's an invented state you walk around Florida. And it's fine. People who are born in Florida. And Florida is like a newly emerging state without that kind of history. And it is a far more conservative say you go north of Orlando, and you are back into the deep south. I know Michigan has rural areas that are pretty conservative. But there is no part of Michigan. That is the remnants of the of the south, you You know. know, let's take what we thought it talking about on restoration of owning rights. I don't think it would have been contemplated in Michigan that people would be blocked for voting for the rest of that lives, Florida was a confederate state and Florida had a figure out how to rob the freed slaves of any political power. There's significant differences between Florida and Michigan is there. A standout career highlights for you. Oh, my God is so much just saving the right of privacy by one vote in the constitution revision commission. That means only every twenty years that happened this spring, I think constitutional Brigadier it only meets every twenty years every twenty years constitution revision commission meets and they have the power to place constitutional amendments directly on the ballot. There was a proposal to essentially radically shrink the right of. Privacy. And that proposal lost by one vote on my I was so shocked and elated at the same time. But I'm lucky because the very last thing I worked on maybe changing Florida forever by ending the system of lifetime felon just franchise van and restoring the rights of haute firs, many as one point four million people are you looking for to most in your retirement Howard, figuring out how to stay as politically active as I can the monk proce- around the world and here in the United States is onto defensive this scapegoating of immigrants. I mean, this wasn't dreamt up by our president. He took a page out of the playbook from European politicians where it's working in, Hungary, and Poland and Italy and places like that democratic values are on the defensive. And I'm gonna try to figure out a way to be politically active as I can't be to defend the values of the mock Racine that brought me to the Hugh maybe fifty years ago suspiciously. Unlike retirement Howard, but I suspect that the people have are lucky for your view of for tire -ment. Thank you so much for joining us today. Howard and giving us your your bird's eye view of life in Florida. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to add liberty Bahir to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if he can write a review we love to hear your feedback..

Florida Michigan Howard CEO Florida ACLU labor union Los Angeles America New York Wisconsin Orlando haute firs executive director Hungary UAW president United States scapegoating Racine rob
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

03:51 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"I want to change subject a little bit as we're winding up. So many commentators have noted the echoes to the Anita hill hearing during the confirmation, obviously, Justice Thomas. And I think those echoes are very jarring particularly in revisiting how Anita hill herself was treated at the time. Whatever happens with Kavanagh. Do you think we've made progress in nation in providing women this space and incentive to come forward? And do you think the EU's commitment to women's rights among other issues at all affected how the board received the credibility of Dr Ford's testimony and in voting to take the step he I think that certainly true. And I think that in terms of whether we as a country had made progress on listening to women, the metoo movement I think is really so important. And our women's rights project has been trying to design a current doc. It, it's activties to try to capture the moment that we're in. We're all of a sudden it does seem possible that woman will be listened to even if she doesn't have corroboration even if there's not a lot of evidence of the objective evidence of her testimony. So I think the fact that Dr Ford's testimony was so credible. I think that many members of the board wanted to stand with her into, say this very brave patriotic thing that she did to tell a intimate details of things that are really clearly traumatic for her and to tell them to the Senate committee just because she felt that it was her civic duty to give information that might be helpful to the Senate. So I think we did wanna make that statement and to disagree with those who say, well, you shouldn't pay any attention to her because you don't have objective corroboration you. You don't have her calendar saying where this happened, what the address wasn't, what time in what date and how she got home. So I think this is our statement that we do believe that women should be believed that women should be able to tell their stories back to the idea of partisanship. One thing that I said to the board at the beginning was that I thought that whether or not board members believed Dr. Ford's testimony was important question that everyone was taking about for themselves, but that that would not in itself be enough for the ACLU to decide to oppose to Cavanaugh that we think about our role as fiduciaries in our role is nonpartisan organization. And so what I has poured members to think about is one of Kavanagh had been a democratic nominee and somebody who we predicted would be very favorable in civil liberties. Would we reach the same conclusion and. Posed his nomination on the basis of these same factors on the basis of the credible allegation of sexual misconduct. But you know, show partisanship even if it been in the other direction, etcetera. And quite a number of board members were struck by that, and they said that they were quite certain and committed to the idea that this standard should apply in a nonpartisan fashion and that if there were a democratic nominee who raised the same doubts as to fitness to serve on the supreme court, we like to think they're all the same circumstances that we would take the same position. But this is not about politics. This is about an individual who the board concluded has not made the case that he is a fit person to serve on the supreme court. Susan, my last question for you is prompted in part by comments. We've gotten from some of the listeners to our podcast who say they would love to know more about how the folks we talk to got into the gigs we're talking to them about. So could you just give us a just a quick summary of how exactly one becomes president of the Saliou what I was elected president people would ask, well, how did you become a civil libertarian? And the story that I love to tell when I was inserted grade and I, I discovered that my public school library had the why new..

Dr. Ford Kavanagh Anita hill supreme court Justice Thomas Senate president EU Susan ACLU Cavanaugh
"at" Discussed on At Liberty

At Liberty

04:13 min | 1 year ago

"at" Discussed on At Liberty

"Let's turn to the issue of temperament. Certainly what struck me most about the hearings was that judge cavenaugh came in in a mode that I would like into snarling and began with a very partisan shot across the bow about those hearings being related to Clinto Nian conspiracy the ACLU, as you mentioned, has sued about every American president in history. Did the board discuss the potential negative consequences for a legal organization that practices in front of the court after formerly opposing a nominee who may very well end up sitting on that court and who now has made plain intention to remember those who have stood against him? Well, I can say that in two thousand. And six when the board decided to drop making an exception for supreme court nominees. That's another explanation that was given that we do very frequently appeared before the supreme court, and it's very important to us that we are regarded as a neutral, new affair. Litigate. I can say that both Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas have commented over time that they read a c. l. u. briefs in cases because they regard us as an honest broker, I think those risk Leo's words. So I think it's very important to us and a number of people had said, well, we don't really want to prejudge justices and Ben appear before them after we've said, we don't want you on the supreme court, right? That was one of the arguments in two thousand six when the board was just discussing whether or not to make an exception to the policy and that argument was raised in a what if we were to oppose judge Cavanaugh, would he then. Bear a grudge and vote against us just because we opposed him. And there were a lot of members of questioned how true that is impurity. I don't think we really have a lot of evidence about whether or not a judge would tend to you hold a grudge against a particular organization that had opposed him or her. And I think in some ways it may be plausible to say that maybe a judge would bend over backwards you to not show bias against you. So I think that wasn't an important part of the decision here in terms of concern. But what you're saying that temperament, I think there are two parts to temperament. One part is just our is somebody explosive. And here I saw recently somebody dug up a quote of what Senator Lindsey. Graham said about sunny soda Myer at her confirmation hearing, and he said she was so angry. She was so explosive, and she didn't have the temperament to be on the supreme court and it's standing. So I thought it was really pretty interesting that Jude Cavanaugh would be judge played a different standard and the standard that at least he applied to soda Myer. But I think that the ACLU wouldn't necessarily want to go there. So when I say temperament, I don't necessarily mean just that. You know, he has a demeanor that sometimes he might yell more if somebody else that not necessarily something that would disqualify them from being a judge. It's not good. But what in my mind, what board members were more concerned about was the part of what we're generally calling part of quote temperament but is really more about partisanship. Can that be fair up? Cheap touches Roberts famously said at his confirmation hearings that he's tested on pyre, and he just calls the balls and strikes will if you had somebody you're thinking of hiring as an empire before the bulk game, and they started screaming about yet how much they disliked one of the teams it you wouldn't hire them. So the possibility of partisanship here I think was what was a main concern to some board members. The reason I don't think we're reverting to the business of always deciding whether or not to oppose cream court justices is that. This is almost like a perfect storm. We have the credible allegations of sexual misconduct. We have the inadequate investigation where you can't really tell what evidence there is big picture. We have the additional allegations which have not been investigated or presented to the committee, and then we have judge Kavanagh's own testimony, which ethic show several different things. It does show an explosive temperament, but what worries me more is that there are suggestions that he would be going into the supreme court as partisan. And we have concerned about whether there is a bias there that would disable him from doing the job of being fair to all lit against..

judge Cavanaugh ACLU Senator Lindsey Antonin Scalia Kavanagh Clinto Nian cavenaugh president Myer Ben Roberts Graham Clarence Thomas Leo c. l. u.