Focus on the latest news, reviews, and discussion about camera tech. Digital cameras, DSLRs, and the latest events in the world of photography sourced from leading talk radio shows and premium podcasts.
Photographing the Music Industry
"April. Welcome to another episode of this week in photo. I'm your host Frederik van Johnson. Today I have the distinct pleasure of sitting down with Jay Blake's burn. He is a hesitate to use the word veteran photographer when I talked to many photographers but Jay is a veteran photographer. He knows his way around camera knows way around white. He probably has forgotten more about photography and getting the image than many of us know today and because of him being locked down I got him on the show and I get to pick his brain on how how he's built up such story career shooting music musicians in that kind of thing so jay. Welcome to the show man. It's good to have you a veteran photographer in only seventeen years old. I might have veteran already. Well you need to stop doing what you're doing because you're seven. You're trouble my white beard. So you're you're in San Francisco. You're a San Francisco based photographer and You know for the people that are watching this and that we'll look at the blog post. They'll see some of your images and I encouraged over to your website which will link to from the blog. Post end the description in the youtube video. But let's just start from beginning man you you not the beginning beginning but just give it set the stage for us you know so to speak on the how you got into this type of photography music shooting musicians in celebrities and that kind of thing so. I grew up in suburban New Jersey in the nineteen seventies highschool from nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy nine and back. Then we have the Internet to tell us how to act or how to live over what to do not we were on our own and you know we pretty much live for sex drugs and rock and roll and the drugs were easy to get and ingest. The Rock and roll is everywhere the sex. We were just praying that we could get some harder to come. Come come a come up with the first two to play. That's why everybody says they become a musician for the girls right and and so you know trying to find and figure out my identity of who I was. I loved having a camera. I love taking pictures of my friends. My friends it was it was the early days of social media. You know take some photos development in the dark room and and give to your friends to hang on their bedroom walls or just to have and you know early early forms of sharing content and I built a darkroom and my mother's basement where I lived in high school And my senior year of High School. They built a dark room in my high school. Seventy nine the teacher for the photography class was the autoshop teacher. He's the guy teaching how to change your oil and fix up. You know change a carburetor or change your spark plugs or whatever it is they were doing in we call those people the grease monkeys whatever they were doing over there but he knew how to develop film so he'd be by default became the photography teacher and I was the very very first student to make a print in that darker. Nine hundred seventy nine and here. I am fifty years later. Forty years forty years later and still still doing it not not sniffing fixture in a darker but Still working as a professional photographer. So that's kind of you know. That was kind of the beginning at first borrowing my my dad's camera barring my stepbrother's camera Barred my dad's camera took it to grateful dead concert in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight. I Don photograph the grateful dead and then just you know just taking pictures and I think I was for my seventeenth birthday. My Dad bought me a you Sheikha. I think it was an f. x one think is what it was now up one. Maybe one or the other can't remember if you go back and look and and started taking pictures of my friends and and bring it to concerts and shooting music So that I could go take that film and and development in the basement and makes some eight by ten prints and hang them on my wall in my bedroom run create my own concert memorabilia and some of those photographs now forty years later are actually valuable and and have shown up in CD packages and box sets and and magazines pictures. That I took one is seventeen and eighteen years. Old
Sherry Hagerman Discusses the Importance of Education
"This Shamir young and I'm joined by my co host in of Florida. Skip calling Florida. This is really good because our guest today. Her parents live about five miles away. I don't want them to know that. I'm the King of Florida. Think that so. Yeah all right. I'll be the King of Florida. Just for the PODCAST. Cast how are you? I'm wonderful. I have some Florida envy right now. Here in Michigan is pouring rain. So I'm a little jealous of you Floridians while we had the storm this morning and got all the rain and now it's gone. Let's talk about one aspect of Plata pod. That's become very very cool if you think about it whether it's the Max or the ultra once you've got the base. It's kind of a blank canvas to do anything you want. What and I was looking at some of the things the other day and seeing some of the images on the instagram page that that Plateau pod shares and on the blog That are that are being shared. And it's very cool because everybody is taking things like the goose necks with additional lighting or changing up the kind of ball. They're using more. We've got that that I love that little square jellyfish phone holder. Because I've used that on an ultra of myself and while you could go out and you could get if you wanted something. Just hold your phone. They're a dime a dozen everywhere. But when you talk about putting the square jellyfish on Your Planet Pot and then you Wanna be able to do other things with it in terms of recording with your phone It it just changes the diversity of the product which would which are some of your favorite accessories. You know it's I. I love the goose next and I have to add by the way you know. We all have extra time right now with with everything going on with pandemic and it's the perfect time to experiment and explore with your style and creative projects and it's just very very cool and so I'm loving playing with goose necks and I mean just looking at stuff. That people are posting it so inspiring. You mentioned the blog. We've got toy photography up there. We've got Frozen FRUIT OF FROZEN FRUIT TO`real freezing fruit and getting really cool artistic shots. Someone else posted about. They were capturing images of their city from their car like not even leaving their car and the platypus helping with that. It's just it's very cool the different things that you can do and especially with the accessories available now well right now and you said it. We've all got. We've all got time so being able to play with this stuff and go from from a macro to anything with your cell phone and tie it all in together it just becomes one of these really diverse little tools that you've got to play with and it takes up no room and I don't want to turn this into more of an infomercial but you and I are both for for our listeners. Shamir and I are both involved in working on different plateau pod projects but were involved because we believe in the in the product and especially especially Larry doctor Dr t who is the founder and was down a looking for new application. So and here we go. Let's talk about today's guest. Let's get to it. We've got Sherry Hager. Men in the House and my friendship was Sherry. Our friendship is testimonial to an industry. That we all loved dearly. Sherri is an award-winning very successful. Winning and portrait photographer. But these days she's best known for a much bigger role and that's founder of Click on now just to give you some history on Sherri Sherri and I met I think it was either two thousand nine or two thousand ten when she attended skip summer school and that was a workshop series. I was doing that. Went all the way through two thousand thirteen. We've been involved in numerous projects. We spoke at different conferences together. Sherry and her husband. Jeremy and Sheila and I have all been out to dinner together. I love working with her and I especially love working with her team on. Click con- now click. Con- kicked off last summer with their first annual event Chicago. They broke all records with. I mean they just had this incredibly diverse educational and trade show event and it was amazing because you could feel the electricity in the air and I know that sounds Kinda. Hokey and sappy. But sometimes you go to a conference where it's kind of flat like a soda. That's spent left open all day long. It's got color. It's got flavor but no phys while this one had phys had a little of everything and people were so excited to be there. This year click on was scheduled to start About a month and a half August eleven so actually no. It's about two months away but like everything in our lives. The pandemic changed all of that. Now here's the cool thing team. Click con- isn't going to slow down so while this year show has been postponed to August tenth. Twenty twenty one. They're launching click con- nation on the same day that this you show was supposed to start August eleventh. The pandemic may have changed everything in our lives but moving to online couldn't be more perfect for the management team also known as the heart of Click on. So we're going to talk about education. We're GONNA talk about expanding your skill set. The challenge is building your business back in today's in in today's environment and who knows what else will come up on the PODCAST and I know I've gone a little bit too long. But it's hard not to do when you've gotta guess that you know so well so Sherry. Welcome to beyond technique. Hi. I'm really excited to be here today. And talk to your listeners and give them some good information call. We are so excited to have you. Thank you is on you now. Good information. Wow we have a lot I think between the three of us we can really figure out some good stuff here for sure for sure and you know. Let's start with our favorite first question. Just our listeners can get to know you a bit more. Tell us about yourself. Share your background and how you ended up doing what you're doing today. Well my goodness we're going really far back now so I started a while. I've been doing photography since I was six years old had a little. I don't know if you guys remember those Kodak. One ten cameras. I got one of those for my birthday but I didn't really ever take photography serious until I was out of college during college. I had taken a ton of photography courses because I loved it. I got my first real. Dsl are when. I was eighteen for graduation from high school graduation and When I graduated college I was actually going to become a Animation artists and work on movies Lake Toy Story and things like that for Pixar But I ended up shooting. Somebody's wedding and I fell in love with it so I became a wedding photographer. Spent about sixteen years now. But I've been doing that and I absolutely love it. I had a hard time coming out of the gate. Which skipped can attest to. And that's how I met skip. I actually attended skipped summer. School in That's pretty much. What gave me my left or my push and also really gave me the wants to educate other people so I think skipped summer. School is really where the photography part of it came out where I started catching on to pricing myself. Right and doing things right as well as wanting to get back to the community so both of them actually started right there with with his show that he had had But yes sixteen years. I'm number two in the. Us number one in the Midwest and Voted number six in the world.
Twelve Reasons Why I Still Make Prints
"Last week. I released the most recent issue of cocoa personal. Pdf of my work. And I received a fascinating email which has sparked a discussion here. Let me read you. The e mail to begin with it says Brooks thanks for the latest issue of cocoa. I really like these. Pdf's but I was surprised in this one when you announce the printed chat books from cocoa as a photographer who's embraced digital imaging. The way you have I was wondering why you're still making prints. I think that's a valid question. I have embraced digital imaging and obviously the twenty seven now issues of cocoa that I've published and sent out into the world or an indication of my enthusiasm for digital distribution photography and to be quite honest if I never made another print. It's not like my photography would not get out into the world because I get far more distribution of my artwork via these. Pdf's than I would ever get. If I only made prints as my finished form of artwork I've always made prince of one kind or another. I've always been involved in printed photography and probably will be for the rest of my life but if for some reason it suddenly became whatever against the law to make photographic prints. It's not like I wouldn't have an outlet for my photography so there must be another reason why I make Prince and in fact I sat down fairly quickly in response to this fellow and came up with twelve wins why I still make Prince. There's probably more but these are the ones that came off the top of my head. I is that it's my first love. I started photography is a print maker as matter of fact when I picked up photography seriously in the seventies if you didn't make print they're literally was no photograph. That was the only method to get a photograph out into the world. Well perhaps other than slides but not very many people were seriously using slides as a means of distributing their fine art photography and so prince was sort of the default. I built dark rooms as a matter of fact every place I ever lived in my twenties thirties. And even into my forties the primary consideration of choosing where I was going to live was based on. Could I build a darkroom there? That's how serious my commitment was to prance and basically Intel. Oh roughly about two thousand five or so. My photography was all about what I could do in Prince. So because it's my first love because of where. I am relative to when I was born in the history of photography and all of that my roots are so deeply involved in printing that I I'll never be able to give it up because I just I have so much fun which is actually my second thing that I wrote down. I just plain have fun making prints that didn't always used to be the case. I enjoyed the scientific challenge of the wet darkroom and because I had pursued science in my youth I was very comfortable around mixing my own chemistry and measuring things and all of that knows fascinated by it and that aspect of it was fun but I didn't find print making to be much fun. It was frustrating to me to have to guess how much to dodge and burn or whatever adjusting imprint. And then wait for ten minutes before I could turn the lights on and see it. That was always a bit tedious. But now with the introduction of digital printing. I have all kinds of fun. In printing to me is an entertainment activity. It's pretty consistent these days. It's not fraught with much Difficulty OR FRUSTRATION. And so seeing a really terrific print. Come out of my printer is mostly. Ajoy every once in a while. I get frustrated but it's mostly just a whole lot of fun. So that's the second reason I still make Prince. The third reason is the physicality of Prince. I enjoy digital images. I enjoyed the computer. Work as a publisher. I spend all day on the computer so I'm comfortable with it etc but there is something lovely about the physicality of print particularly these days when the inkjet papers are so wonderful because of the textures involved and the heavyweight involved in the the fiber in the paper is lovely I just love the physicality of printing hence my interest in doing for example folios as well as chat books. There's a physical process of cutting trimming sewing folding. All of that Kinda stuff. Not so much these days cutting matt boards like I used to but all of that physicality of print making is still something that I find very rewarding and a reason to be involved it sort of the hands on production. May maybe that should be my fourth. Reason is the hands on production aspects of making prints in particularly. You know you start off with a blank piece of paper and maybe a blank folio cover and thirty or forty five minutes later. You've got a beautiful folio with Prince and the Nice physicality of all I I. I just enjoy that process. As a real sense of accomplishment in the hands on production for both folios and chat books to some degree in matted prints although I don't do that much anymore the fifth reason is I just love paper. There is something about just the commodity of paper that has always appealed to me. I even experimented for a while in my youth with things like Origami just somehow having this beautiful invention of mankind Paper and what what a fabulous substance. It is in all kinds and it's not just photographic paper but art paper and paper that you write on and draw on a I love paper so that's another reason that I'm involved in printing which is tied. I suppose to my sixth reason for printing which is that. There's no device required to see a print or folio or a chat book. And the fact that you can handle the paper and you have that physicality of it and did it doesn't require that you own a piece of equipment or have a piece of equipment with the battery charge or uploaded to it or whatever. There's a certain appeal to that.
"I'm excited I sit down and talk with here you man. I'm disappointed you can't see me dressed in my finest and freshly shaved respect for you. Yeah and doing looking at work and seeing some of the presentations you've done and just getting a a really good understanding of what your career has look like. I was really inspired. Not just by the work which I think is exceptional but I thought that you were one of the few photographers who focuses on the things that you that you do in terms of the environment cultural impact of socio economic issues around the world and one of the things that you really adept at is providing a sense of connectedness between all these what normally would be disparate things in the minds of many of our of Westerners tend to have such a topic and self absorbed obsession with the world revolving around us that we tend to sort of exclude things that we don't feel have a direct impact on us even though it does and I don't think that at least for for for Western people that that something that awareness that you have it comes naturally. I think it's something that at least for me has been sort of a learned. I've had to unlearn that kind of way of thinking and open myself up and I'm wondering for you. How did that sense of that connectedness? You know that I see in your work. How did you come to have that yourself? It's kind of interesting here just to kind of explore this topic right out of the out of the out of the gate here but it's just an overall feeling that we are all one connected human being we are all one connected earth country. There's no difference between myself. And someone number Wanda a first nations person in Canada. A polar bear were all part of this great mother nature all part of this earth and I see it. All is our earth our collective future art collective history that belongs to each and every one of us and all of us have a vital role to play in this world so for me. It's I see that connection point. I've seen the difference between a billionaire and someone who's on the streets having a tough time in their life were all these powerful magnetic souls that are all on our journey in this world. I respect an extraordinary operation for really each and every one of us who are on this path. Was that something you always had or? Did you have a moment of epiphany when you were younger? That sort of allowed you to see the world in that particular way is definitely something that was important to me from the streets of Belfast from my times experiences in Sarajevo some of those really powerful experiences in Haiti in the early nineties. When you're just experiencing something that is so powerful and so beyond anything that you could even imagine you'd be confronting in your life and the humility that is absorbed through every cell and fiber in my body as I photograph and spend time with extraordinarily powerful people. That frankly have the power have strengthened. Have courage that I do not possess. I am simply an observer a witness in that sense and I am a part of this journey that they are on in the experience of their life than you know. Ultimate humility to me comes from there in the eyes of the people that I've photographs from really understanding the depths. What their day to day realities like and then how I come back to this first world. It's it's a difficult thing. It was brutal that coming back in landing at LAX. In coming back into this world leading. When I just left behind That Internet itself is extraordinarily difficult to the least. I remember crying literally walking down the aisles of a grocery store and looking at their Sushi in all these meets and everything it's like my God and I'm in Saudi bullets. They're dependent on what food they can scrounge. They're taking their lives in their hands. Trying to get water for their family and Sarajevo not being shot and killed and he does understand life and such a different matter that it really comes down to a pitcher of water feeding your family for that day or providing one meal and then coming back here to realize you know what we have at our at our fingertips some so it starts to really bend and the beginning years of breaking May to a completely different understanding of other majority are. Have you know a lot of other people around the world on? That's an interesting term. You said breaking you in as if you had Basically Foundation that you basically emptied sort of destroy in order to build a a a new one with being way of describing. Yeah I also think that for me I had an extraordinary powerful desire within me to witness first hand the history as it unfolds being an apartheid South Africa before Nelson Mandela. Send it to presidency a lot of the different war-zones in and out of the genocide in Rwanda Darfur wars in the Middle East. A lot of fees experiences really changed me immensely and really broke down the nature of what I thought reality was for me and for my family and what that word means to me and how it's manifested within me and how it is indeed. You know change the way that I view the world. How did how did you see your work or hope for your work to be used during those those early years of your career and how change what was really interesting. Is that one of the first major magazines that I work with was magazine that you might have depending on where you're at school was called scholastic so that was the magazine. Went out to students I received when I was a student so lineup really establishing a great relationship where the editor they're Lee buyer and I really started to take on a lot of these projects around the world on children.
"Hello everyone and welcome to frames. My name is Scott Olsen and I am talking today with Beowulf Sheehan. Beowulf is one of the most sought after most successful and I believe most important portrait photographers in New York. These days he has worked in more than fifty countries lectured at New York University and Yale among other places and if you go to his website you will see portrait of people like Oprah Winfrey Twenty Morrison Patti Smith Margaret Atwood Patrick Stewart in Kellyn Paul Simon and dozens and dozens of others. It is a body of work of which I am personally Quite envious good morning. Bill could he's got great to hear Your Voice. I do have a quick thought for you. I've not traveled to fifty countries the photograph I photographed in better than ten by way of commissions however I have photographed people from at least fifty countries and hopefully been able to travel to their worlds in cultures through those experiences. Okay I saw that on your resume and I was impressed and I'm still impressed. So tell me how things are in New York this morning. New York is a beautiful place this morning. The air is cool and crisp outside. I did have a short walk this morning. I am very fortunate that out my window. I have a cemetery so I get to see less trees and I have a great deal of quiet. What sounds I hear. Every morning in this new time of ours is usually One of two things that I hear all either your birdsong or I will hear the sound of a passing ambulance and of course happy to hear the former not to hear the ladder. That is the time in which we live summer mornings in New York. City yes Tell me about portrait photography but let let let's begin where people how in the world could you get into photography? How did you get into the kind of portraiture that you do specifically I into photography being a shy boy and wanting to make friends and prior to the thought of making friends? I wanted to be reacquainted with my father. My parents divorced when I was in elementary school. My father was out in my life for a few years and when he came back the beginning of my high school years he had a Konica thirty five millimeter camera. A Long Lens to go with it and when I arrived at high school which was a high school outside of my neighborhood I went to magnet high school for foreign languages. I was busted very early in the morning to get there. I was in the ethic minority in head a world of new friends to make and when I got to school my classmates were speaking about two things with which I was unfamiliar of the Miami Dolphins. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale and girls and I knew very little about both but I had been working in the summers and not really spend that money on anything beyond books and comic book so I had enough money saved to become the youngest person in the history of the Miami Dolphins the buy season tickets to the Miami Dolphins. That's impressive I go So what I had done was than I began to use my father's camera and I would take a tripod that camera that long lens invite a new acquaintance from high school to eat game. And I believe my mother had driven been to us down To attend these games and no one ever stopped me. The guards were very kind. They recognize me after a few games. I always went through the same gate that sort of thing and was able to watch Dan Marino or the ball around and make pictures and then make Prince of those pictures and share them with classmates over time developing friendships and of course Getting to know my father again. That's a wonderful beginning there. Is I know an extraordinary event. Though in your early connection to reading and that's possible yes but but I'll let you lead that so when you're asking the extraordinary connection is well. Yeah you you are probably the only you are the only person I know who's ever been bitten by an alligator. Oh this is true this this. I don't know all the people in your life of course who you know but but I'm the only person I know who's been bitten by an alligator and that happened to me in the summer of nineteen seventy six in June of that year. I was of course on summer break from school quite small and my brother and I were playing in the backyard of the home of a friend of my mother in southwest Fort Lauderdale where there are canals and those canals in some cases feed than Their Way West to the Florida everglades and of course. That's where alligators hang out. And some of them sometimes get lost. My brother-in-law had been wrestling. This lady's backyard was time to come into the House for lunch. I had asked the Lady of the House. If we could use your host wash our feet persons they were full of dirt from the grass and the young lady had said no actually better just a spicer feed off the dock and then it'll be quicker and I went I. I remember sitting at the dock. Enjoying splash on my feet and looking at my brother and my brother's twenty months younger than me made his eyes get bigger and he looks down on my foot. I looked at my foot and I saw the alligator close. Its mouth around my right foot and I went to some degree of shock. The allegation let go. He caught the outside artery of my ankle and bloodshot out. Allah a bad money iphone sketch. And my my brother then began to grab my body to try to pull my body up and my mother and my mother's friend of course had come out of the house at this time and they were lifting me from the document onto the grass. The allegation had gone back under the dock. And I don't know how much more time passed or how much blood I lost but I then at some point found in the emergency room of a hospital where my brother was born. Only a few blocks away and doctors worked in saved my foot. Save my leg. There was concern for infection loss and I was very lucky to have for the balance of the summer. Have Gone to the hospital every day to get my foot. Epsom salts to save it and that meant of course not being able to play games at not being able to enjoy summer camp not being able to do sports do much of anything involved mobility and that deepened my reading and then with it of course my drawing and my reading and drawing through my childhood in and beyond began with comic books and then onto more challenging books More INTERESTING BOOKS. Maybe more interesting stuff. The right word say because books are wonderful. And they're very very interesting. Otherwise we wouldn't have these films adaptations of stories that now the masses is seen film but the the books of course comic books would come out once a month and it was great to go to seven eleven after school and pick up those books but I would devour them so quickly and then I really wasn't in the mood to wait another month for the next book to come out so I would just draw stories myself. The drawing worked its way over time of course into photography. But that's a longer compensation which I'm happy to have
Self-Hosting Your Photo Gallery with Imagely
"Hey welcome back to another episode of this week in photo. I'm your host Frederik van Johnson in this show. It's all about image sharing galleries and wordpress. And I'm joined by Scott Widen. Let me make sure I don't butcher his name Kibbe wits. He's from the company that built this cool stuff. And we're GonNa talk about that stuff and a little bit deeper because I want to dive into the world of wordpress as it applies to photographers and Scott is a is an expert in all that stuff so welcome to the show man how you doing doing well. Thanks for having me no. I think it's the first time that you and I are chatting while I'm on while I'm wearing the image. -Ly brand usually. It's me as a photographer right when you were both at the time and stuff like that. So it's a little bit of a change of pace. I've always been at image immensely but now and now now it's center now. That's great man so you are. You're the chief community officer over there. What does that mean chief community officer? Yeah so I. It's kind of on the marketing side. I get to do things like this. Interact with other photographers with podcast. With youtubers with you know just do a lot of the interaction on social media and in person like I'm the one that goes to the conferences like photo plus expo and hanging out with people going out making photos and stuff like that so I to do stuff like that. I do the blogging. I have we have a podcast about wordpress four photographer so I hope that that kind of stuff right. So I'm I'm sort of the email marketing. It's kind of that. That guy on the guy who gets to your the thing I was hanging out with you. Get to be the face of the company. That's cool. Well let's talk about that so I have the tease. I talked a little bit about wordpress and galleries and all that stuff. So one of the reasons why you and I are having this interviews and you guys who you're about to or you have already depending on where you watch. This rolled out the ability for photographers to kind of in a way replicate what some other players in the cloud. Image storage space. You're doing like smug Mug and Pixie set excetera in terms of building galleries and assigning priceless to those galleries and allowing customers to come in and purchase from either a password or unpasteurized protected area. Which what you told me before. We even started that up until just now has not been possible. Take me through that. Because I'm one of those people I use Mug Mug. I still have my Pixie set account as well and some others And I'm a wordpress user. This week in photo is run on wordpress. Obviously be nice to have the power to have that in house to me. GimMe Gimme the gist of what you guys built. Yes so as you said Thirty thirty five percent of the Internet runs on wordpress. So thirty five percent of photographers are using wordpress. And many of them are using wordpress alongside something like smug monk and it's all good and well if that's what you want but for photographers. Who Want to do everything in one platform that they control? That is a wordpress site. You now have the solution to not only sell in and sell prints and digital downloads. But the prince you have the option to automatically had this refilled by a print lap and the first pre lab we integrated with is White House custom color. Nice and more will be on the way of course but for now. That's that's the only one that's there and the cool part is that yes next Gen gallery built on is a Free Plug. It has about a million active users. It's one of the most popular press ins ever. Definitely the most popular alary plugging is the fastest gallery plug in and it's more than just your typical gallery. Plugin display your photos. It has a full gallery management system in it and that system kind of gives you this it will. It definitely gives you the separation of galleries and not. Everything's in one media library folder. It's all separated and it allows you to fine-tune everything to put in different image tags. Which will import your exit data. So you'll have any keywords. What become tex which means you can create galleries based on tags? If you want we have You know titles and descriptions and things like that and when you the this gallery that you've created and you want to attach a priceless it so you create a price list as some prince from the lab. Some print options and we by default automatically pick the most popular prince from the lab. And then you can add more. You can even do at all if you want to destroy everything once and and that's your price list. If you want to add digital download you can do that and you attach that priceless to the gallery and you once you sell you sell your Princeton. You don't think about the part of come mattress. You don't have to think about The the the the printing the the the editing that comes after that 'cause you know you don't have to worry about replacing inks all that fun stuff on that. So you know like I said before having having been in being a user of these cloud based services the in this is a completely appropriate question especially for someone who's intimate with wordpress and and image making and how stuff goes but the word press. Yeah it's it's almost the defacto standard on the web for for many many many sites out there myself my my sites included but the double edged sword of wordpress is giants got his amazing robust community. Anything that you can imagine you can build and or configured to do but in my opinion or in my experience that's also the Achilles heel of wordpress because there's always updates and plug in conflicts and you know okay you. You're not really bill. If for me it feels like you're not really building on a on a stable foundation. You're building on a foundation that can reconfigures itself every now and then you gotTa make sure everything that's on top of it is good to go. How does how do you guys mitigate that with next Gen and Gal next-gen Gallery and the other services you offer so that if I do put my mission critical business and galleries up there and I have a bride? That's coming in that. Wants to see and by prince she's going to be able to see those and give me money so. I just what you said that that there's sort of this Achilles heel I like to say that We're presses amazing because it can literally do anything but it's also a sometimes a pain the butt because it can literally do anything from so so yes there can be conflicts with different plug ins. Yes you have to worry about. Updates at image league on top of potential complex all the time we get a lot of people coming in that might have a bug here and there and we have a team that troubleshoot said and and can handle those and we have a development team that is fast and we will address any conflicts or bugs that come up that are that need immediate attention if you're having if we're having a conflict with a plugin like you which has happened in the past then that's a plugin that is popular enough. We have to address it. We know that plug in is installed in pretty much every photographers website. We have to fix it. So but if it's if it's a conflict with the plug and then might have a hundred users total well that's not a priority because unfortunately there's not many people using a small amount of people. Yeah yeah so we have to go with with what is impacting the majority
"Thriving in the New Normal"
"Many of us are feeling a distance between our art in our daily lives. In my case for example. I'm not spending time with other photographers this week. I should be in the Humboldt redwoods with a bunch of you taking pictures and looking at them and talking about technique and all that good stuff. I'm not. I'm here in Santa Rosa. I'm not traveling. I'm not being hired to take pictures you know. It's really a different situation now. Your particular variables might be a bit different than mine. But I bet you're having many at the same feelings. So what do we do? What do we do about this brand off? The top of my head of choices. We have so first of all we could you know just roll over and die and I don't mean I don't mean physically die. I mean artistically die. Just say you know what That was fun now. It's over. This is the new world and a well as you may have figured out by now. That is not the path that I'm taking nor the one that I'm recommending okay. Here's what I think. We should look for the opportunities within the situation. Tried to capitalize on them and then move forward to. Here's the cool thing. Whatever we do now while we're constrained physically we're not constrained artistically. I'll get to that in a minute. We're not constraints so much artistically as we are physically physical of all the limitations I think is easiest to overcome. Unless you're like locked in a box which were not. It's the easiest overcome I I would take it any day over mental imitation emotional limitation spiritual limitation. I'll take you know being sort of trapped in my studio or trapped in my house over those other constraints so I have Internet. I have my tools at the moment. I have food on the table as a moment. The mortgage is paid. I don't know about next month but we'll deal with next month when it gets here. So what I'm thinking is all right. Let's take a look at five ideas that we could play with during this time of physical limitation in. See what we can come up with. Because here's what happens if we come up with something now then if the world starts to come back to some other kind of normal that involves US actually being able to hang out with each other or go somewhere on an airplane or do a number of things like that then we already know how to do that and then we have whatever we've accomplished during this time and then we'll have both and then what if we can intermingle both into something completely new all right. You see where I'm going here. Let's take a look at some of these things that we can do during this time of internment right number one more self assignments because just because we don't have the physical freedom that we once enjoy. That doesn't mean were confined creatively. We can explore how to stir those embers. Bhai creating self assignments and seeing them through and seeing them through very important. Because if we're successful we'll not only enjoy the fruits of our efforts. Whatever that assignment was. We will have a level of self satisfaction for the accomplishment. And I think this is really important. I think setting goals. That can be accomplished right now. Are Super Important. Because I'll tell you there are days that I get up and they sort of you know. Look at my life and just talking about you know my creative life my working life right now my financial life all those are mixed together. There are days I get up and I look at that and I'm bummed. I am bombed. I just go. How man this is so hard. This is truly difficult and then I'll just go ahead and get to it. Start trying to do one thing and then trying to do the next trying to do something new. You know all that kind of stuff and then I will have a little success. Someone will sign up for a course. Someone will buy a very expensive camera. Someone will do something that sort of puts a little energy into the day and then I get a little momentum and then suddenly I start having more ideas and then I get my energy going. Self assignments can help us in that same way that we set something up that we can accomplish that is worthy of being accomplished. Not only do we have the thing but we get the feeling that goes with it and right now. I think that feeling that feeling good that feeling like I can move forward that I can do something under these conditions. I think that feeling is super important. Because that's what moves us to the next spot. Okay so self assignments. I think are a great way to do that. And they can be anything you can work on for instance assignment for a lot of folks right now. they're just wrapping up digitizing memories.
Creating Professional Slideshows and Albums
"Welcome back to this week and photo. I'm your host Frederik van Johnson. Today I'm joined by Daniel you Cinco. He's the CO founder and the Chief Operating Officer of a company called Pixel Salou and they make some software called smart albums and smart slides. And I think some other things that maybe on the horizon. Hopefully we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA talk about the future of the company but Daniels here to talk about the slide show space and the album space and the cloud speech of how things are changing photographers. Daniel welcome to the show man. How are you doing? Hey Nice to see you here. Yes as well. We've been trying to do the interview forever. So now now you guys went through a launch and the software is out there in the wild. How's it going or people enjoying? Yeah Yeah No. It's it's been good. We've been around now for November. It'll be six years since we launched my sincere album the first version so yeah. It's been quite a ride for sure. Wow I've got a ton of questions for you on that specifically I wanNA talk about the competitive landscape for you. What the software is. Who's it for what problems that it does it solve and all that before we do that I want to? You know you mentioned you've been around for six. Years gives for the people that may not have heard of the company. But how did it start? Why did it start what? What was the entrepreneur problem? You guys were to solve Yeah I. I've been shooting weddings. Since I was sixteen year. Old Kid has been a really long time. I'm a certain to turn thirty five here so I've been in the industry for a really long time. I started. Actually when I was still film days I was learning film. Back then and I just had a lot of Guess back then. You know photography inside. I was teaching workshops. Those travelling was talking doger's and at the same time I had a friend who was a programmer developer. He said Hey. I have some ideas about some cool apps that we can build and you seem like you have a hold on line marketing and photography. Let's do this together. And so that was in two thousand ten so nine nine years ago and yeah we had A. We had an idea back then. It was like an IPAD APP where you could basically create a design that looked like a printed book and you would flip a flip the pages on IPAD and actually went. I just came out. I was one But we made the APP. We spent two years making the APP and we should go to a lot of her. They loved it but apparently not enough to pay us any money so we had one customer the entire time one from Saudi Arabia. Out of all places. I don't why or how that happened. She was very upset when we told her. We are closing the down. So but We we realized that that The big problem is not necessarily showing the album on an IPAD But actually creating it because in order for it to be prepared for the ipad. We had to go through a similar process of putting images on the page and making sure they're all lined up and they look good together and back then. Most photographers use either photoshop. Or in design and in order to upload to our APP you also have to use design and we thought that our project. We didn't have any customers because the process of creating that album for the IPAD APP was too difficult. So we're like oh we should have a companion APP that you can use to make the layouts that would be really really easy and so that was the beginning of smart albums and as we were making smart albums we realized that there is a big problem. Not just You know an IPAD APP design but making it design for wedding and portrait for our food for books and albums be printed because this is also the time where they're called flush mount books whereas the old old school albums you'd have basically openings on the page and you would slip for pictures in there but the new modern albums which were becoming popular. You'd have a entire page that was A whole print and for these albums for flush mount albums you needed to create designs and so we thought. Oh smart albums big grade help here as well to help with our grade printed albums and so when we launched it in November two thousand thirteen it was for the printed albums and they really exploded and change industry because something that used to take in photoshop days and designed probably a whole day. Now smart albums you can make you know in fifteen minutes And Yeah after that we we grew from three people back then to now over thirty people. That's been collect fight it right. Yeah congratulations man. That sounds fantastic. That sounds like the the the ultimate ultimate sort of Silicon Valley for the most part but the ultimate sort of Silicon Valley story of Guy Sees Guy has issued guy solves the issue turns out people like the solution in Bhai. It and the company grows right. Yeah except we didn't have silicon valley money. We have to finance it ourselves. That's the big big difference. Oh Yeah Yeah. I'M GONNA dive into both of these so smart albums and smart slides so just before we do that from from your perspective. How how has the or has the industry changed? You know in terms of what they want. So you mentioned going from sort of slip in prints and the evolution into the full page being a print which necessitated doing layout and design and all that. Have you sitting where you're sitting? Have you seen a shift away? From printing and into more online sharing through facebook can in that sort of thing or is it equal growth on both the physical atom side of the business in electron side of the business. Yeah great question. I definitely seen a shift toward more. Just shooting burn and you know we can the warriors type of approach where Dr Become wedding photography become a secondary job and a lot of cases. But those who try to make it their full time business and they're full-time thing. They realized that in order to make it a full time business. They have to make as much money on each client. That's possible because clients are limited. There are a lot of. I'm sure every photographer watching this will say. Oh my gosh. My market is so saturated I. It's so hard to make it And it's been a lot easier ten years ago. It was a lot easier and so with more photographers Everybody gets fewer clients viewer bride and fewer portrait clients so you have to find ways to maximize the amount of money you make from. Each individual client and prince albums are really really great. Way of doing that because clients want them. Most lines want them. It's just a matter of price and by saving what's might albums by saving time on design you essentially can lower the price tag of the album back in the day. Fifteen years ago malls photographers would tell you. Oh you have to charge something like two to three thousand dollars per hour which sounds kind of insane right now for a typical wedding. Typical bride is GONNA pay again. Typical bride is not going to pay three thousand dollars for album because she knows she can probably find something online. That may not be as great. You know shutter flyer or blurb but may not be as great but she can get something done for two hundred dollars or one hundred dollars and so was allowed photographers to make albums fast allowing them to lower that price tag because now they can afford to charge less for albums and still make it really good profit?
Has ON1 Figured Out the Connected Experience?
"So starting this June you can subscribe to a complete photo capture management editing sharing system that works on Mac. Os Windows IOS and android devices. It's called on one three hundred sixty degrees and there's quite a bit to unpack with it before you even get into the new stuff you know on one has been building a block by block a pretty good argument for being your photo management and editing solution. They've been working hard. The latest release of the one that it wasn't too long ago was photo raw and it's it's very nice and it rolls up a bunch of stuff. They have been working on before but now I really feel like they're pulling the whole thing together by adding this connected services cloud service and very importantly launching a mobile APP. Okay so you have the mobile apps for both I less than android. You have the desktop software for both Mac and windows and then you design a clever cloud based system to sort of help. You connect it all together with some pretty neat features. I'm GonNa talk about and then you do so at a competitive price. That's really what they're after here. That's argument and I have to say there's a lot to it really is okay. This service automatically keeps track of photos that you choose to access from any of your devices so that includes the Meta data and where you want to store them. The desktop and the mobile APPs share the same processing engine and I think that's important. Gazeta enables non destructive editing settings to remain in sync as well. So we've experienced this before right. I mean this isn't brand new with white room creative cloud. We can work on an image on her IPAD and you know get saved back to light room on our desktop computer in photos for Mac. Os allows us to do the same thing so it really isn't like this hasn't happened before I think the real appeal for those that are going to love. This will be in the details on how they do it and how much they charge you to do it right and you know sooner or later you know. We have to have the price discussion right and we're going to have it today as well. So let's start with some of the features so you have all the powerful editing features of photo raw and Federov. Their image. Editing application has been evolving very nicely over the last number of months. So you have that okay and those of you that that already have photo raw. What will happen in June is? They'll be an update available to it that will allow it to connect to the cloud. Service the on one three sixty degrees. Now you get to choose which photos to sync between devices and this is somewhat similar to light room desktop that allows you to choose a folder album a collection a collection. You have to remember. Which APP am I talking about collection? allows you to choose a collection that you can share of the creative cloud and then access it via your tablet or your phone on one takes us approach to so they don't take the all or nothing that you know everything that you're working on has to go into the cloud or anything like that. They want to give you as much flexibility as possible. Your original files. Wherever they happen to to be they stay there. Okay they stay in that location so if your original files are on your desktop computer and you decide to share you know the say album of images you know through the cloud service to your mobile devices into other computers. Your originals don't travel up to the cloud they stay on your computer all right so and and I think that's a pretty important feature what what on one does is that. It creates sort of a compressed raw file version of it. And those that you choose to share. And that's what they upload to the cloud service. Now they're compression. Option is four times smaller. They say than than the raw file itself but a very high quality so in a sense is probably fair to say that it is a compressed raw file. And we're seeing cannon do this we're seeing other folks do this so you know. This is something that that we know works and that can be quite good. Here's a feature that is going to be competitive with the service for one license. You get five desktop computers and five mobile devices. That's pretty strong. One of the the walls that I slam into a lot with my Adobe creative cloud subscription my photographer subscription it gives me light room mobile and so on and so forth is that is only for two machines. I regularly work with three machines and so I find myself always having to disabled one in order to enable the other and you know do all that kind of stuff so so this five machines. I liked that five. Machines is a nice uneven number. That's perfect for probably most folks. Five machines will work for me quite nicely and then they give you a flexible pricing plan. What THEY WANNA do is if you want to own the application itself photo raw you can do that you can buy it or you can rent it and roll it into the cloud subscription. Which is you know. Three hundred sixty degrees. What they're calling. So you have an option so you can either. You know. Say Hey I want to own the software and then you know all subscribe to the cloud service as I needed or as they don't need it or you know however you WanNa do that you have a couple options within the cloud service or you can say hey I just WanNa rent the whole kit and caboodle and You know just have them take care of everything and the pricing depends on what you're going to do and we're actually going to cover pricing in this segment. Now I want to read you a little something from their site. That explains what they're doing here. Is I thought that the copy was pretty good and I thought it made a lot of sense. At least I understood. Okay on one pulls off this magic by creating a temporary version of the photo under the hood similar to a compressed raw file and storing it in the cloud. The photo maintains the tone in color of the original photo while using only about twenty five percent of the cloud. Storage Space Atypical. Raw file uses for those who demand the full raw file at all times and don't care about the storage space uploading and editing. The raw photo itself is also an option. So you can go either way however I think to save money. Most people will at least give this a try. This compressed Rafal approach. Now as I mentioned before your original photo files stay. Put right where you keep them. Your original photos can live on any of your devices including external hard drives and file servers again. I think that's that's a pretty important point. You can choose to upload copies of your original photos to on one three hundred sixty degrees as well if you need to access the full original file remotely.
Innovation and the Clich
"Years the editor of Lens Work Publishing Brooks Jensen as an introduction to this topic. Let me begin with a little bit of inside baseball as they say. Did describe how it is that these podcasts come about. Oftentimes they're sparks from something. I read or something someone says to me or an idea. Get an e mail. Sometimes it's ideas that just bubble up out of nowhere. As I've often mentioned this happens a lot in the shower for some reason so I actually have a divers where I can jot down ideas before I forget them while. I'm still in the shower. And that's what happened this morning at phrase occurred to me out of the clear. Blue Sky jotted down. I had no idea where it was going. But I've been thinking about it all day in it's led to a very interesting train of thought. I WANNA share with you. The phrase is as a pursuit in life. The creation of art seems to be a dance between innovation an execution dance between innovation and execution. And here's what occurred to me while I was thinking about this. I've been listening to two different kinds of music of late. I've for reasons I can't explain really gotten into the piano concertos of Rachmaninoff. And I've mentioned that these are available on Youtube Etcetera. Play by this brilliant Chinese Pena's named Eugene and by sheer coincidence. I've also discovered a composer. Young woman who is very talented at composing classical music. And she's been exploring lots of other genres of music are names Nari Soul and she has been discussing of late in some of her Youtube Videos John Cage and his work. With what's called a prepared piano. He would take an open up a piano and attach things to the strings. like paper clips and whatnot and and the piano would make very funny noises and oftentimes. He would not really play music. He would just play notes and things and very innovative very creative. Very modern very sort of avant garde out there and she's been exploring some of his ideas so I I had these two things that are clashing in my brain the extreme precision and accomplishment of the execution of Rachmaninoff by Eugene Dong and John Cage and is prepared piano as explored by Nari Soul. I think these two extremes are what got me thinking about the dance between innovation and execution. LemMe ask the question. This way in terms of piano music which is a higher form of accomplishment. The extreme innovation of John Cage thinking way outside the box not only thinking outside of meter and normal harmonies and progressions but thinking about outside normal instruments. And how they can be modified in played with talk about innovation way out there so we applaud that to some degree and then at the other end of the scale is you. Juwan and her unbelievably precise playing Rachmaninoff. And the the execution that she brings to his scores are not only extremely high in terms of technical proficiency but also in terms of emotional content. So that's a very high measure of success. But can't we agree that these two are at essentially completely opposite ends of the creative spectrum? Both forms of music can bring out emotions. Strong positive and negative is zoom and both of them can be seen to fall in some sort of competition or scale of things. And which do we appreciate more? Well obviously the reason I bring all this up is because I'm thinking about this relative to photography to what's more important in photography extreme innovation here. I'm thinking of the inventive work from the imagination of photographers like Jerry. You'll Zeman or John Paul Capela Negro or Huntington Witherell or dominic rouse or the incredibly precise execution on very traditional lines. And here on thinking of Bruce Marne bomb and John Sexton and and even people like Steve McCurry. Which do we value more? The key idea here seems to me to revolve around our expectations. If we go into a piece of artwork with the assumption that what we're looking for is incredibly talented sensitive execution and we see something like the prepared piano of John Cage or the innovative of Jerry yells men or someone we might say. Well that's not what I call a picture because it doesn't look like what we expect a fine art photograph to look like on the other hand if we go in assuming that what we value. Is something really innovative? Something we've never seen before then we can look at work like. Oh maybe even Louis Balsam Robert Atoms and Lee friedlander Gary Winner. Grand and say well. That's that's not what I call a picture. But wow is that fantastic. Because it doesn't look at all like we expect a fine art photograph to look. I think it's easy for us to appreciate the fact that there are two camps. It's perhaps even easier to fall into one of those two camps without even realizing it if we're a traditionalist we're gonNA look at the innovative and the Avant Garde is being weird and certainly when people look at oh do sharp or Mcgraw eat they might look at those paintings and say that's weird. That's you know. Because it doesn't look like Rembrandt Raphael. On the other hand if greet and duchamp painted like Rembrandt and Rafael. We might look at it and say well. That's boring because it's not innovative so therefore it doesn't seem to add much to the history of painting and so we're not interested in it. Well we can do exactly the same thing in photography. How do you evaluate work when you look at it? Do you evaluate it based on its execution and how well it conforms to the cliche or do you evaluate it based on its innovation and how different and unique it is. There is a position in the Middle. Which gives me pause for concern. Because if what we're trying to do is have the best of both worlds have innovation and traditional execution for example. Then the only thing that's left is what you point your camera at that is to say trying to find something that hasn't been photographed as artwork before and turn that into your bailiwick or your creative vision. In hopes that people would look at it and say beautifully done traditionally printed man fantastic execution of something. That's never been photographed before and isn't that Nice. Do you realize that that's exactly what happened? In the early history of painting this has been discussed by lots. And lots of people. Certainly not a unique idea. And certainly not my own but basically the idea's this for generations for literally. Hundreds of years painting was of the human figure primarily religious pictures descent from the cross kinds of things but usually what happened in those paintings as they had to be set in some kind of scene and so there would be introduced in the background. Some little bit of a tree or a little stream or a building or something and with enough passage of time and hundreds of years. Painters started saying to the figure move over. We're we're more interested in what's going on in the background than we are in the human figure or the story and landscape painting was born but when landscape painting was born that way there were probably lots and lots of people around who said well. That's not what I call a painting because whereas the people this is just a bunch trees that's not very interesting so it was innovative but it wasn't traditional and it certainly didn't measure up to the kinds of execution that were expected in a portrait of a person or the painting of a of a story seen or some such thing
"Low Hallo photography lovers. How's it going today? I have another fascinating conversation for you. I talked to a British travel and landscape photographer today. Coal Trevor Publishes Images in magazines calendars and carts in the December. Two thousand eleven he presented to the Royal Geographic. Society has also exhibited in Ziada in Switzerland Ireland. He reached the final of the travel photographer of the year. In Two thousand ten eleven thirteen and fifteen and was also a finalist in the wanderlust magazine travel photographer of the year in two thousand thirteen without any further. Ado here is my conversation with Trevor Call. Hello Trevor I'm so happy to have you today. How doing very well. Thank you very nice to meet you to lash the first question. I often asked. My guess is very simple. How do you stay inspired? What's the number one thing that makes you go out there and photograph as a really good question for many years of my life? I told Jugular Vein International schools overseas so for me. Photography was always a part of that so all night photography established from geography and travel. So whenever you see things you have new eyes of men therefore the photography becomes much more meaningful so I guess. Travel is my main stimulus. Okay so and you are traveling all over the world. I have seen so many amazing images in your portfolio of people and landscape of different cultures and of of those people in their environment. So what is it that fascinates about those those people? Are there any answers you are trying to get you know to your photography when when photographing them? I've always had an interest in indigenous able those that have beaten in situ on the spot for a very long period of time I e the tribes of southwest Ethiopia and. I've just come back from a trip to Papua New Guinea. Where I went to the highland. Show it on. I guess it's the way they live. And the way they still connect to nature something that's been lost largely in our more developed world. It just fascinates me hobbies cultures. They're very similar in many ways and yet they're very different but the way they interact with the the earth sky above the elements and manage to look after the environment. And there's always been a little bit of the environmentalist in me jumper. I lived in West Africa for a year teaching and I live for four years in Ethiopia. So I'm particularly familiar with southern eighth yoga so I try to return there and take little voters there Once the air or once every eighteen months I real soft spot for Ethiopia in particular but also photographed different look different locations or all around to drive yesterday of an. I love together Namibia. I also love landscapes I mean. That's the other part of my geography really is just beings have more which so incredibly beautiful and Iceland or where I live here. My own country of Ireland is stunningly. Beautiful the perfect perfect place for tigers to capture light and landscape. Let's talk about landscape a little bit more later on on on the show here. Let's get back to people because it's really fascinating for me especially that travel to visit those different locations. Instead of one thing you would say that kind of stays the same when it comes to people standing in front of your camera like do you experience similar emotions or reactions when when photographing them. Actually actually no. I mean in in for example. I've only been to Papua New Guinea Than it's fresh in my mind the people are just loved. Having their photograph taken that were very receptive but some other parts of the world. I've traveled to Somaliland on travel to eastern Ethiopia. Where cultural differences make it a lot more difficult to take photographs a lot more challenging due to other religious belief or a certain shyness towards being photographed so sometimes sometimes you have to look not more I really think is important. Is Spending time with people not just going in taking your shot leaving. You have to know people you have to feel something on even those. That are difficult to photograph culturally. If you spend time with him you know you often get that little chance that maybe others don't get shots than becomes a possibility but this this first step of knowing those people better is is not a barrier which is also very difficult to cross. You have to kind of enter private sphere of someone or maybe a family. How do you start such process with people from different cultures different languages and so on while I always take a local guide? I always use local Enterprise people who know the people and that is my way it take find a good guide opens doors that otherwise you would find closed in your face some places. You just cannot go alone you wouldn't you wouldn't get up. She wants to get so someone who could translate to sit Iran with you and you can ask questions using their skills as an interpreter and that makes a lot of different so that first step becomes easier.
Creating Implied Nude Photographs
"A welcome back to another episode of this week in photo. I'm your host Frederik Van Johnson. Today on the show. I have the distinct pleasure of having a good friend of Mine Mr Grainger. You've seen it on the show before this time. He's joined by somebody. That's more cool than he is. Stephanie Fam- she happens to be a model and several other things that we're going to learn about during this interview. She and Matt collaborated on a project tutorial a training course on implied nude photography. So they're kind of the one two punch in that industry right now. We're GONNA. We're GONNA talk about some of the secrets that that photographers need to know about. In order to be successful in that genre photography and sort of avoid some of the pitfalls that that a lot of people fall into so men's Stephanie. Welcome to the show. How you guys doing yeah. Welcome welcome welcome okay so first of all before we before we kick this off. Stephanie can you tell us who you are? We all know who that is. So whatever but we don't you want to know about you and then we'll get to you. They will dive into the interview. Stephanie Fam- P. H. A. M. Pronounced Fam- like family tells about you what's your what's your involvement in this project. Hi Okay so I'm Stephanie. Fam often so I- model and I've been modeling for about ten years now and I have experienced an implied nucor gestures for about five years and in the correspondingly. I actually like give my two cents in terms of like the models perspective. Because like I feel like there's a lot of things that the photographer could learn more about the model side that could actually help improve their photos and also communication with the models. So that's pretty much are involved my involvement in terms of like how the course goes I guess myself personally besides model a also acting. I also have my own youtube channel. Who the yeah? I'm always busy workaholic. Content Creator. That's what you are contact. Magritte give us the elevator pitch for you. You and I met a long time ago. You were doing. You've since rebranded but back then you were doing stuff very specific to Nikon and now you've shifted. You've seen the mega you've seen the but you you've rebranded away from being brand specific tells about that journey a little bit so well to be honest. I I had the name that nicotine guy which I chose the day that I started the channel. Which actually we just had. I think it was the eighth anniversary a year anniversary. Forget the but it was definitely the end of January when I started the channel and it was just because I had a bag full of nick on equipment so I thought let's reach out and get the nickel and uses leitch at least but I'd never only looked at nick on gear and only all only used nick on Gade and it got to the point. Basically where was with one of my businesses advises? He kind of was brainstorming with me saying so. What's the best case? Scenario would be what you become an ambassador. But they wouldn't be able to talk about other brands and you wouldn't be able to give your honest opinion if it was negative about nick on gave which. I didn't want that and on the other hand you know. Think of an outsider photography. Gm is going to work with that for guy. No and if you're a food lover you may not want to view a channel Code. Gm Guy so seeing not only doing the economy. How bad just make it my night. But because it'll half of what I'm doing is actually about travel or technique oil eating seafood with my cats. That's not half my content that it's a lot of a lot of it's a lot of it. It's not just Nikon camera by cats are right here. Don't say anything bad because they're looking But I think with Steph. Seeing tra- she was a little bit too modest way. We've been working together for close to three years now. The she was that I think the first model. I will definitely the first model in the states that I really connected with. Getting working with an ongoing basis She still comes all the way up from Philly to New York to work whenever we're filming together and she brings a lot more to the table than just standing in a beautiful APP in front of a camera. So I've learned a lot from her about posing and to be honest about shed juuling and a lot of things about getting the most out of my time and amy good model at you know. I don't need to soften the She knows where I'm going with this but being a great modal isn't about being exceptionally good. Looking a great motivator. Someone who knows that poses knows they Anglesey's professionals reliable. Who's good tool book with Tixx Direction? Who understands the goal of the shoot and helps you get the and often the most amazing models I've worked with? Steph is an exception because she is very beautiful as well. The you wouldn't even notice them on the street it's once they hit their pose that everything lights up for the camera. It's not about looking like you just walked off a magazine cover. Shoot all the time so. It's all of that experience that I really wanted to bring to the series because in any shoot that I have with Steph. At least half of the Pos inspiration comes from her and from her experience and having worked with so many different photographers so she has a lot to bring to the table in the series rather than just dropping in a little sense here and there it was really about trying to show both sides of the process. Because you can't get I think anyway you kind of get consistent good results. If you're not both comfortable in a shoot and it goes twofold efforts a noodle revealing shoot and I think maybe even more so when as implied because if it's new to toot so nothing can accidentally slip into the shot. If it's implied but someone's efforts you don't have established relationship of trust. They may that element of is more going to be show and then I was intending. So let's find the part of the discussion around nude verses implied versus you know what here in the United States the United States is well known for its hypocrisy in in in puritanical. Type behavior right you know. We can show nuclear bombs taking on takeout on tire cities. But if you show a nipple that's the end of the world right so so let's put a fine point on that from the experts. Both of you guys. So what is what like where. How do you and your minds professional content creators? That that play in this genre. How do you define nude verses implied versus porn versus whatever right because people lump all that stuff together? How do you split out? I'll jump in and then if you WANNA tank it's It's I think it's a really good question and I hate to not give a precise answer but I think the fact that that is so imperfectly defined. He's wear a lot of the the issues. Come from that settling again that we were trying to do in. This course is to be clear that what I consider to be implied Abu Bwa or too much and not tasteful anymore will be different to staff will be different to. You will be different in every viewer so you actually need to have that conversation really explicitly and clearly each time with the model. Because they've I've shot with Steph a hundred times now more than that. I know this is what she's cool with this. What she's not cool with the stuff I we haven't shot so better. Check that with her but a lot of it. We can actually take for granted. Now that doesn't mean that if I go and shoot with another model day going to be cool and cool with the same stuff so you need to have those conversations again so if you're showing that shut there have asked sitting on her back. You know if you were saying okay. So it's going to be a new back but once you any private parts so for some people that may mean a little bit of bomb. Crises fine for some will may not at all it needs to be side on. Be Really really specific about it. So if we'RE NOT SHOWING NIPPLES. Does that mean showing the entire breast other? The Nipple is okay or wait intending not to show breasted all. It may seem pedantic but you really want to be totally clear on that. So that that takes the guesswork if before you get to the shoot we've both said Okay. These long laundry list of things Not going to be shot. That's cleared and these specific. Things are what we're shooting for. That takes a Lotta the guesswork out of there and something that we talk about in this series is and I think this is where and it's justified. I think there is a bad reputation in this part of the kind of I don't know there's mud in the water to explain it exactly because there are dodgy photographers out there. Who was saying. We're going to shoot. These actually may be shooting more end up sharing things. They said they weren't going to so. I think the key concept is if we've agreed that X. Y. Z. Said aunt going to be shown in the final image. Then why the hell that I need to be shown at the photo
Break Out the Fast Glass
"Digital story cats number seven thirty six April Twenty Eighth Two thousand twenty. Today's team is primetime. Break out the fast glass. I'm Derek story as we explore spaces in our home environment that we forgot even existed. Who knows what photo opportunities we will uncover in what better way to capture them to their full extent than by breaking out our fastest primes to document the shadowy corners of our lives. This week. I talk about five prime lenses that have become important tools in my new normal. Zoom lenses are terrific. When you're on the go when you're traveling on vacation and you want one lens that
The Aesthetic Moment
"In the nineteen eighties. I took a workshop from David Bales. Who along with Ted Orland is one of the authors of that really terrific called art and fear? We had a long weekend to work with. David doesn't ever so who were attending the workshop and he began the workshop with something. I've never forgotten. He asked us why we make art. And we went around the table and offered are somewhat stumbling excuses about what motivated us to WanNa make art. He then proposed that all of us were essentially the weird ones in society. He put it this way not not to insult but just to be more clear and more precise he said. Do you realize how many people there are in the world who have a camera who have no compulsion whatsoever to create artwork and so the obvious question is what makes us different. What makes us want to become artists with the camera? And since we're a relatively small group of people compared to all those who own cameras doesn't make sense that we're kind of the odd ones. Everybody else is normal. But we're the ones who feel compelled and he proposed that we needed to think carefully about why we wanted to make artwork. He didn't answer that question. He left it for each of us to stew on it and to come up with their own answers. And it's taken me many many years but I think I have a better understanding now of why it is that I wanna make art. Let me ask it in a slightly different way. What is it that we seek in the process of being an artist? Well some people seek fame or money or accolades. But I suspect that most of you listening to my podcasts are not interested in fame money or accolades unless they fell in your lap. I mean we'RE NOT GONNA TURN IT DOWN. But that's not the reason we pursue our art because if it was we'd probably be doing different kinds of things photographic -ly than we do so for most of us were seeking something else. What is it that we seek from our creative life? I'M GONNA go out on a little bit of a limb here and explain what I think. The answer is for me. It may or may not be an answer for you but nonetheless here it is for me in a nutshell. What I'm trying to accomplish with my art life is to have a certain kind of experience. I kind of got onto this idea with cardiac Brussels. The decisive moment in his thoughts about photography. I have different term. I call it the aesthetic moment. That's really why I'm photographic artist. I seek the aesthetic moment and I suppose in order to make that clear. I kind of need to explain what I mean by the aesthetic moment. The best example I can think of that isn't about photography is probably Haiku. So let me begin by talking a little bit about Haiku with a couple of examples. The great translator of Japanese Haiku of course is our H. Blythe. He did a wonderful series of books. There's a four volume set called Haiku. Each book is a different season and he also did a two volume set called the history of Haiku. I have loved these books now for forty years and I go back to them from time to time and RH Blythe says quote. The nature of Haiku cannot be rightly understood until it's realized that they imply a revolution in our everyday life in ways of thinking. Close quote that is to say the aesthetic moment. The aesthetic moment is the moment when we have a shift of consciousness. I I tend to think of it this way. It's a sudden and off an unexpected shift in awareness when the everyday act of seeing becomes a fleeting but meaningful glimpse at some sort of deeper understanding. That's a very coarse way of trying to explain an if you've had the experience you probably know what I'm getting at if you haven't had it maybe a couple of Haiku will help so here's a good example of the shift of consciousness in talking about in this Haiku a brushwood gate and for a lock It's nothing more than a moment of recognition. When all of a sudden something is seen little differently is seen unexpectedly when in this case the snail is not normally the lock. But we kind of see it that way because we're not gonNA go through the brushwood gate because we don't want to disturb the snail and so the snail becomes the lock. Here's another one in the old will. A fish leaps up at a net. The sound of the water is dark. That Haiku brings forth in me that aesthetic moment. I'm not thinking about the water. I'm not thinking about The dark but somehow the fish leaping brings us the darkness of the water to my attention and I have a moment when I'm sort of separated from normal consciousness and I have an aesthetic feeling for what is happening that I would not have had. If in this case the fish had not leapt up at nat so that experience sparked something in the person who wrote this Haiku. I think it was ISA but I'm not exactly sure. Remember that right. But it sparked an aesthetic moment and became the genesis of the Haiku. Here's another one. The Autumn Wind is blowing. We are alive and CONC- each other you and I I have this idea here of two people who've maybe spent the day together maybe they've been photographing together. And all of a sudden the autumn wind blows. And you realize the person that you're with is there. In the moment they become even more alive and even more real than they have prior to that that somehow there was that shift of consciousness that happened when the wind was blowing and the connection was made one last one the bright autumn moon on the Tatami Mat the shadow of the pine tree here again I visualized sitting in some old Japanese hut somewhere. And here's the bright autumn moon and with no other lights around all of a sudden because of this bright moon I see the shadow of the pine tree on the floor. And there's a connection now suddenly between the moon the pine tree the light and me and it's more alive than it would be if I wasn't paying attention so once again that sudden and often unexpected shift in awareness when the everyday act of seeing becomes a fleeting but meaningful glimpse of understanding of connectedness of really becoming aware in the moment. Lots of other photographers of talked about this. And it often comes up with a phrase. I've never quite sure I understand. And that is the Japanese term. Wabi Sabi I I don't I. I can't speak to that because I'm not really sure I understand what that really means but I do know the moment when looking at something ordinary I experienced that. Flip of wariness. Now I I'm not very verbal and I'm not a poet so I I don't do Haiku so for me. The attempt to express that aesthetic moment takes on the form of visual art hands on photographer. But one thing I do know is you can have that breakthrough to the aesthetic moment in all kinds of possible things in photography it can happen in the field
Sean LeBlanc How to book incredible portrait photography clients at expos
"Hey It's Andrew Helmet from impact images. Welcome to this episode of the PODCAST. I know you're GonNa love what Shawn has to share. He has an incredible story. And I think it'd be blown away by the success. He's having in such short time. But I would encourage you to make sure you check out his website to get an idea of the kind of work. This guy is producing before we get into all that. I've been thinking quite a lot about interviewed last week. With Zack. Arias and I've had a conversation with another photographer. I'M GONNA leave. He's nine out of this but he just could not believe he seriously thought Zach was making this up that he would go out and shoot one hundred dollar poets poets after making so much money as a successful commercial and aditorial photographer for big brands. That just did not make sense to this listener. We had a few back and forth. It turns out that Zach was being one hundred percent truthful. Amer God's to these poets portraits for one hundred dollars. He's actually got a youtube video up now. Talking about these executives the fact that he booked fifteen families in five of them cancelled in the graphing ten days families for one hundred dollars a pace to release fifteen minutes sessions. He goes into complete data. So there's no denying that Zach was playing one hundred percent truthful. I WANNA be clear. The majority of comments and feedback were just how refreshing. It was to hear from someone exacting so truthful and honest about the state of photography the industry dealing with Kobe nineteen and all the aspects of having no income and manning expenses. It's just frightening anyway back to this other photographer having back and forth. I think what we both agree on more. No we what we both agree on is. There's a really good chance. Even though exact didn't say this specifically that having high overheads a lot of expenses with little savings and the possibility of no work coming in is extremely dangerous and personally. That's where I see a lot of photographers leaving their lives and probably not only photographers. I mean we all like to have a nice house. Nice US new cameras. Modern computers a lovely looking home with NAS furnishings. Holidays kids with Nice things. I mean. They're all things that way we've been brought up to to want and then to pursue and go after and of course we all know we have to work hard to have those things as well but the scary thing is if worked rise up. Where does that leave us? Where does it leave you? And I believe one of the biggest things that come out of this corona virus pandemic is. We need to take a really close look at the way. We're living what we value. What kind of debt were go into what can happen if we can't service those debts for whatever reason it doesn't have to be a pandemic could be personal injury or illness? Something change China's economic climate. I mean war another could be anything and everything could happen to affect our chance to make an income to generate clients and Mike right siles but on the other hand we still want to have all those nice things so to me. We need to think about what we value more away. You place your value and how much risk or dead. You're happy to carry do. Do you really need to have the fifty or one hundred thousand dollar car? The lightest camera. Do you need to have the lightest fridge that you've taken on an interest free loan from the department store? Can you pay off your major debts like your mortgage before you start pursuing all those luxuries in life or some of them anyway. Is that a possibility because one thing is certain if you have no debt and worked as dry up for whatever reason you're going to be in a lot more of a comfortable position a lot less stressful a lot less reliant on government handouts a lot less anxious and generally in a bit place and when. I started thinking about this this whole thing. The first interview that came to mind was one are recorded a few years ago with Vincent Puglisi. If you haven't had a chance listened to that episode it's episode two hundred and fifty five the toddle that Iran we played episode had to move to a life of zero debt with your photography business. And he's the author of the book freelance to freedom. It's definitely worth getting back. And having listened to Vincent to what he shares and had different his life is as a result of living without debt. Because to me. That's the one thing that he's causing most photographers. That is struggling right now. The most anxiety. It's that debt. And it really is a frightening place to be with all that being said. Hope you are in a good place. I hope things have started to settle down and you can see a way forward through this. It sounds like it sounds like things are going to be slowly moving back to some kind of normal in the next four to six weeks. I don't know how that's going to affect you. Depending on where you live and your government restrictions and rules but it sounds like humanist dry they're gonNA start to slacken off the restrictions in the next four weeks whether that means we can go back and shoot weddings immediately or family portrait sessions. But it's looking like that's the why it'll be and that'll be great when that does happen. I just quickly on that topic of photographers. Not Working. No we covered a little bit of this Zack's interview last week. But what I found interesting is particularly here in Australia or New South wiles. We're being told that we can't work unless we have an essential business and for some reason photographers have jumped in to mmediately. Fly The flag for us not being an essential business and I get that. We aren't an essential business. No one needs photography to survive and this year a photographer that is but the general community doesn't need photography to survive. But I'll look around and I see shops open. I see electricians GonNa work plumbers going to work. I say build is going to work. Say My son going to work as a locksmith. Our all those things essential services in some cases yes they are like you may need a plumber. Plumber is essential if the toilets blocked with the drains not draining. But they're going about their work as they do every other day when there is no pandemic replacing taps tap washers. They're doing little jobs. They're doing big construction jobs. Is that essential? I don't think so now. I'm not suggesting that you should be out there working as a photographer doing your family. Portraits or photographing allotments. Or doing whatever you do for your dog. Affi business but I can understand that if you have to put food on the table. You'll do what you have to do to bring some kind of income in if you can do it within the rules. Governments is setting but for some reason. Photography is saying to have this great divide in our industry where you're the lowest of low if you consider going out to work if you're shooting port portrait's even though you're maintaining your your distance or you're doing what you can to put some food on the table and interestingly. I haven't seen a lot of pushback on Zach Zach Arias and what. He's doing what he discussed in last week's episode. I'm seeing very little pushback now. Is that because he has a higher profile because he's more well known in the Industry. Is that why people aren't screaming at that? Hey you shouldn't be doing that. Zach this is the worst thing. You're a photographer. What you're doing is not essential or is this something else at play here that I don't understand
Understanding Photography Education with Darlene Hildebrandt
"Welcome back to another episode of this week and vote on your host. Frederik van Johnson. Today have the distinct honor and pleasure of having a an longtime friend of mine. Darlene Hildebrandt on the show to discuss a topic. That's near and dear to both of our hearts and that's education and we'll topics education and photography. We're GONNA talk about both of those and it's more specifically what's Kinda the state of the Union in that area. Is it still save your money? Go to a brick and mortar school. Is it by a bunch of workshops? Forget all that and just learned from. Youtube is it by courses online. Darlene is here to demystify all that for us and and sort of dive into it. Yeah Darlene how you doing? It's long time no see Ed. Flynn too long. Frederic. How are you? I'm doing good I'm good. It's going to see your face. You never change smiling faces always exactly the same. I like it so few more as my hairdresser called sparkly sparkley hairs. Ono's I love those. That's good that is good. It means you each one means you're wiser than people that don't have cancer. Barclays sparklys roller Before we dive into the meat of the conversation I want to talk about the Just sort of you know the state of your union. The State of Digital Photo Mentor DOT COM. And all that stuff you know what's new and great. Yeah the world that you build. You've got a storied history. I mean you've worked with amazing companies. You've been in the education space as long as I have at least so what's what's going on. What are you guys working on? What you building. What is the? What's the state of the Union? So about as you mentioned. I've been involved in the education of photographers for awhile. Now I've been teaching locally for eight years already and I was the managing editor of digital photography school. Dps for five years. And I left. Eps A year ago to branch out and expand my own horizons and they wished me well. And you know we're all on good terms and we still talk and that's great And just in the last year we've been building Lor Tara fee tours. I've been to India and Vietnam and Peru in the last twelve months I posted on my facebook awhile ago that in the last few months. I've been on twenty seven actual different airplanes and been to seven different countries. Wow that is so so you know what that means. It means so we're we in the beginning. We decided to focus this interview on education. Clearly there needs to be another one that talks about travel and how to do it without losing all your stuff. Yeah and I think they go hand in hand together as well travel and photography and education because on the tours is a great opportunity for people who aren't usually in sort of immersed in photography as a day to day endeavor. It gives them a chance to. That's all they're focused on is taking pictures and learning about their camera every single day for two weeks or whatever it is and just by most. They're gonNA go home with with some more knowledge in. Just just just the idea of putting yourself out of your comfort zone right. It's like whenever even if it's just like for me even if it's just going to the next town over or into San Francisco and the burbs of San Francisco going into San Francisco proper. You get a different energy and it kinda starts tickling different creative synapses that make you WANNA try stuff. So that's so let. Let's switch gears and talk about education so set the stage here so there's there's the different modalities of learning right. Some people learn better by having their butt in a seat in an instructor in front of the class is some people learn better solo. Some people learn better one on one. Some people you know. Hey Youtube. Give Me Youtube and a topic. I'll figure it out in a deconstruct. My favorite photograph that way. Some people need online courses. That are focused on a particular subject or topic. How do you? What's best you know from from the photo mentor herself? What's the what's the best process to going from people saying? Hey Jane You. You might have chops as a photographer. You should really pursue this too actually being good. How do you get good so I think the key you missed one? Actually one modality of learning that is by doing and I think Like I talked about the semi classes when I teach in person classes and I actually have one last night We talked about the basics of processing last night. And you learn either There's actually studies done on this. You learn by either listening to somebody else speak so that could be a video or in person alive class Or by reading rain so any book or something like that or by doing and I think I think most people learn best with a combination of all three right so in my live classes I try incorporate a little bit of everything right so I have them write their own notes. A have them listen to me for a while and then we actually you know. Get their cameras out. We're actually doing style for computers if we're doing processing By doing like if I go way back in my history right like we're going back thirty years now. I'M GONNA date myself here again. The the sparkly airs Thirty plus years ago I went to college. Did a two year program. Which was you know? Degree program if Star Affi and I've been asked that question is if I was to do it all over again now. Would I do that? You know there's been debates about college programs like you mention and what I do that and I can't honestly say with certainty that I would at in this day and age because there's so many other avenues available that you can learn from like you said Youtube and all of those things what college does give you and what a lot of my students always ask me and my classes win. Am I going to get it? When is there going to be this magic? A Ha moment the light bulbs going to go on and then all of a sudden you know I understand my camera and understand light and all these other things and my answer is always the saying when you put in your ten thousand hours rain and if you're doing a college program course where you're doing it every day and you have homework you're GONNA get your ten thousand hours faster range you you're someone wants told me. I forget who it was. Someone wants us the same sort of ten thousand our analogy but they were saying from a photographer standpoint. Just think of your shutter finger as being filled with one million bad images and the only way to get to the good ones to get the bad ones out. Because it's linear right so it just take you gotTa keep taking pictures to get. Isn't that a cartoon persona quote or something. I duNno I duNno. Maybe there's a famous quarter. Maybe it's Karcher song but it sounds like something that he would have said about. You know your your worst pictures are your first ten million or ten thousand or whatever
Beyond Technique: Charles and Jennifer Maring Discuss Growing Outside of Your Comfort Zone
"This is Shamir Young. And I'm joined by my co host and social distancing buddy. Skip Cohen. Boy. Isn't that the truth? I got I got all excited yesterday. Because our daughter-in-law Us handmade masks. I'm serious that's so sweet. Mine is a pirate and she has got bumblebees. So the fun thing about the pirate is living in Florida. It looks like it's the Buccaneer logo so I have a feeling that I can't wait to go into a non-social distancing mode and having run to the supermarket and where my new mask. I don't know about you but through this pandemic I am constantly looking for something to fill in a gap on timewise. Now because I'm a writer and I do podcast and blog and all that stuff. I'm probably a little busier than most people are right now but on the other side of the coin. I am having so much fun. Just following some of the some of our own content over at Plata pod dot com on the blog and also on instagram. Oh for sure you know. It's a lot of photographers have downtime right now. Needless to say and one of the things that we can be doing is projects at home to stay creative. And you're absolutely right. Plata pod is putting out a bunch of cool content on their blog about project ideas that we as photographers and creatives can do at home so I highly encourage listeners to go check out. Platypus DOT com slash blog. Just yesterday we posted about macro photography that you can do in your own home another photographer. Joe Pelicans Own. We have a blog post from him about how. You don't even need to leave your car to take some cool photos. We've got some Lego photography as well on the blog is just a ton of cool ideas that we can do to stay creative right now and then if you run out of what you're reading on the blog wander over to instagram because Hilmar Smith is sharing something every single day over on the instagram page. And it's just it's from photographers from and they're not necessarily professional summer. Just good strong serious. Hobbyists others are working professionals. And they're all things that they're doing to change their perspective on the way they're capturing images and there's some very cool and fun ideas there especially to take advantage of during this pandemic near inspiring. So let's get this show on the road because we've got a great one today. Yes we have got Charles Jennifer marring with us today and this is truly a kick and I use that expression alive but this one really is a kick They have been friends of mine for a whole lot of years going back to my early early. Wpi days both of them are artists. Photographers there podcasters. Their writers educators and they couldn't be more diverse in their focus on business. They're also both Panasonic Bloomberg's ambassadors and they were to the very first artist take prototypes of the new Plateau Ball Ball head out for field review right after. Wpi most important of all and the reason joining us on beyond techniques today is the way they've changed their business over the years today. Marring visuals regularly demonstrates their commitment to imaging but together in style comes of wide variety of lifestyle topics well beyond just photography now right now. We're all going through the same challenge and your diversity and you skill set as a photographer has never been more important. The pandemic has changed all our lives. But we're not going to be hunkered down forever and we WANNA help you with ideas. So you hit the ground running when things get back to some level of normalcy. And maybe there's some things that are gonNA come up today in the conversation that'll help you change some of the things you're doing right now while you are hunker down so Charleston Jennifer. If I didn't totally screw up technology here. Welcome to beyond technique. Hi How are you guys today? Be here it's good to have you guys. We're so excited to have you both you. Two are definitely the dynamic duo of creativity and you know we like to kick things off with our favorite first question and this is to the both of you or either one that wants to take it. But could you just kind of enlighten us on how you got started? Give us your background and kind of evolution of high. You got to what you're doing today Yes so you know. I'm a second generation photographer. My Dad was a photo enthusiast growing up that built a darkroom in the house. And about the time I was seven years old and so just seeing I print come to life As a young child it's like it's like magic and so I learned to print long before I picked up a camera and then In my high school years I started picking up the camera and moving forward with it and It's just evolved from there and My my father. Photographs of weddings and portrait's When I was in high school but then I just Kinda took all of that and ran with it and so It's been an evolution. Starting at that point very cool and myself I mean I. I've always been really interested in arts and photography and I mean Charlie. I met when I was like literally eighteen years old. So it's been quite a journey over you know two decades together and you know it's it's really cool to be involved in something that you know as a young person you've dreamed of and then as an adult you see everything kind of coming to fruition. Well it's interesting because the two of you are both out there together as educators. You're both out there together as photographers artists. And there's so many things that you share and just before this podcast started for our listeners. We were talking about when when I remember my. I guess my first presentation broadcast or Ashley wouldn't have been broadcast. I think it was just a A blog post from together in style and Jennifer. You're talking about ideas for entertaining over the December holidays and that diversity. His you guys have stayed true to that constantly constantly but continually changing and morphing into some other aspect of our lifestyle development. And I. I'd love to hear where did Or or when did Together in style. Start to take shape and also and also. Let's talk about where you see it going because right now it's so relevant where everybody is hunkered down. But as I've reminded everybody and other podcasts and blog posts hunkered down. Doesn't mean hunkered down from Your Business what you've got to do to stay safe and healthy. So let's talk about a little bit about together in style and also things you guys are doing now. Well I think You know we've been surrounded by surrounded by so much lifestyle work organically We photographed many different books with celebrity party. Planner David Tara early on and we were just constantly lifestyle driven work and what we realized along. The Way with that was that we were bringing to the table. A lot of creativity to the photo shoots and we realized that we had our own knack for the vision of lifestyle and so as we started to interact and started to move more towards video. We felt like we should be sharing this so that we can build trust with our clients on a deeper level than I'm congested. A camera actually someone who has a sense of style and so I think that's where it kind of evolved from. Yeah an interesting enough. We've always been a the type of people that have embraced change we've always Seek new opportunities whether it was in photography or expanding our own availabilities in sharing our ideas with our clients and know sharing ourselves as lifestyle Experts and other avenues Such as like home decor or recipes or Just particular you know we would do little inspirational shoots and basically gave our clients at different perspective of who we were and it also challenged US personally to come up with specific ideas in T- them come to life you know I'm curious about you just mentioned The word challenge and one of my favorite things that I love to ask is about an artist's challenge photographers challenges. The challenges that we all face as we grow businesses and develop as as artists. And so I'm curious as you've gone through this evolution Of Imaging video and together in style are there any challenges that you kind of stumbled on along the way? And how did you overcome that? I think daily we have challenges and it's one of those things that is a part of everyday life and it's a growing pain And I'm happy to have them because ultimately it ends up in something that Either learned a lesson One way or another and And it's really a cool thing to do. It's it's interesting to go outside your comfort zone and to start to recognize the potential in living. I'm without feeling a
"Here's the editor of Lens. Work Publishing Bruce Jensen. Let me confess right here at the beginning of this podcast that it's not always necessary to know where you've been in order to look ahead and know where you're going but it's awfully useful sometimes to know the history of what it is that you're about to attempt and to know how other people have tried to do what you're about to try to do and to learn from them as they say if. I've seen farther than others is because I've stood on the shoulders of giants. What would this in mind? You can imagine my reaction when the following story occurred. I was attending a photo review session. I was doing reviews there and I was looking through a body of work from a young woman and in the course of normal conversation talking about her work. I said well. This work reminds me a lot of the work of Edward Weston which I intended sort of a compliment but also to indicate to her that what she was doing wasn't necessarily as new and innovative and revolutionary as she thought it was and I was absolutely nonplussed. When her response was who's Edward Weston she had previously explained that she had an MFA in photography. So I wasn't quite sure how to respond to the fact that an MFA graduate in photography had never heard of Edward Weston and didn't know who he was explained a little bit about Edward Weston and the history of photography and she then explained that in the program that she was involved in she did not have to take the history of photography as that was an elective in her program. And I I suppose that's okay but as you can imagine. I was a little bit discouraged by that. But I've softened over the years and I realized that maybe maybe there's more to this than meets the eye because the problem is there's no limit to that train of thought. Okay so maybe you've heard of Edward Weston but you haven't heard of Mortenson okay maybe you've heard of Mortenson but you haven't heard of Ph Emerson. How far back do you go? How much knowledge do you have to have? How obscure a photographer is necessary. In order for you to have what might be considered a legitimate excuse for not ever having heard from of course. Edward Weston's very famous photographer but fame is also something that is curious in this regard. For example I just recently discovered of novelist from the nineteenth century named J S Fletcher. I'd never heard of J S Fletcher and turns out. He was during his lifetime practically the most popular crime novelist of his generation. Rivaling Sir Arthur CONAN doyle and Sherlock Holmes. And all of that J S Fletcher wrote two hundred thirty some odd books and I just discovered I'd never heard of him never heard him referred to in any conversations but yet in his day he was incredibly popular so the farther we look back in history the more some people are going to be obscured by nothing more substantial than time and collective memory that does not however mean that photographic literacy is unimportant in fact. I believe photographic literacy is very important. And here's a good demonstration of why I think so a few weeks ago as in my local library looking through some of the books. They had for sale as part of their fundraiser. And I found an interesting older volume called the reader's digest reader. It's an anthology selection done by Theodore Roosevelt. Not The president. But the president's son I think Published in nineteen forty. The president died in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine so I'm assuming it's Theodore Roosevelt junior who died nineteen forty four. According to Kapiti he anyway so Theodore Roosevelt Junior along with the editors of Reader's Digest. Put together this election published. This book and Roosevelt explains in the forward that he'd stumbled across a box of old copies of Reader's digest which tempted him and he says and I quote. I sat reading back copies for hours every time I finished an article which was off my main course in which I shouldn't have taken the time to read. I thought that I'd read only one other well. At least only one another and then another short run that followed it and another subject piqued my interest and lured me on. Eventually he continues. I dipped into an issue ten years back. But here the interest was even greater the forgotten world came into being not reminiscent Louis but with touches of unmistakable reality. I was astounded to find. How much of the past decade? I'd actually forgotten and how much more I remembered only vaguely. Yesterday's heroes and manners changing social complexions penetrating vignettes tell the story of Art Politics Science and business to find. These things is to have passed before ones is the cavalcade of American Life. And as you refresh your memory. Here's the key phrase by the way Roosevelt says and as you refresh your memory you improve your present perspective. The current scene gains new significance. Close quote what a marvelous way to look at work from the past and couldn't everything that he said about these articles he was finding in old copies of Reader's Digest. Couldn't they apply equally? Well to looking back. At the history of photography that is to say if it's true for the stories in Reader's Digest. Wouldn't it also be true for photography and it motivated me to go back and look through some of the jewels that I have in my photographic library book that I haven't pulled out for a while and I was amazed at what I found for example? Some of those books that I may be purchased thirty or forty years ago seem much more relevant today than they did back then because they were looking ahead in such a way that now in the benefit of hindsight we can see how right they were. And how brilliant? The photography was in. How far ahead of their time? Those photographers were other books. Do don't fare as well. There are others that I have in my library that I looked at from thirty and forty years ago that now I sorta scratch my head and say I wonder why I was so motivated to purchase those books in either case as Roosevelt said the current scene gains new significance. So there's a reason to look back at what other photographers have done. And what the trends in photography have been and we need to recognize that not only is there value but there's no end in that because new photographers from the pastor. Being discovered all the time their archives are being uncovered think. Vivian Maier and that kind of story. But also there's a lot of people a lot of historians who are doing research and discovering really terrific photographers who weren't popular in their time. Maybe they had no audience very small audience and now in the perspective of time we can look back at their work and see. How really terrific was so the idea of developing photographic literacy as a part of our creative life I think is incredibly valuable. And here's another example of why while I was doing all of this digging through my library and looking back I ran across a reference to Henry. Fox Talbot's the Pencil of nature which I had heard about thirty or forty years ago I've known the existence of this very very historically important publication but I never actually looked at it or read it and partly because I didn't know that it had ever been published although I have no doubt that it probably has been
"Low fellow photographers Thomas here. I hope you're having a wonderful light these days having fun with your photography and even more importantly producing some images you are proud and happy with today. I would like to share with you. My conversation with one of the photographers. I admire the most and have been following for years. Today's guest is David Duchemin and I am pretty sure you have heard about David before. He's a world and humanitarian assignment photographer. Best selling author of Photography Books Workshop Leader and also a digital publisher. She's the founder of craft envision probably the best digital photography bookstore out there Editor in Chief of Photograph Magazine and contributing columnist to photo life. Enjoy my conversation with David. Duchemin Hello David. I'm I'm thrilled and honored to have you here. I know very well that you're quite busy. Guy Photographer teacher workshop leader. So so just that you know I appreciate it a lot that he decided to take a bit of your valuable time to join me here on the show. Thanks to be your thank you David. Do you remember the the very last photograph you to that? You were very happy with I do actually. And it's it's very recent I've just got back from a sailing trip in northern Canada in an area that we call the great bear rainforest and I have been there before and to be honest. I've done a couple of trips recently and Had Bad luck with weather in bad luck with circumstance and I was just feeling like I needed. I needed a win. You know sometimes you just have to accept that no matter what you're GonNa do in light room or Photoshop. You just photographs aren't doing it. And so I I was on this trip and I was sitting on a rock in the middle of this river waiting for this bear. And we have this this species of bear in on the West Coast and in very particular part of the West Coast of Canada that we call the spirit bear. It's a black bear it's but it's completely white so it looks like a little bit like a little polar bear with very rare very beautiful and I was air in the great bear rainforest to photograph these bears and I had been there a couple years. Previously there was shot. I wanted where the bear was standing on a rock. And they're such beautiful bears and I wanted something. That was a little more interpretive. Not just a little shot of a bear on a rocket thousands of a second so I thought you know if I could slow down my shudder I could get you standing in a stream. So is basically in the middle of a waterfall against the water to do to sort of blur and And it'd be really Nice contrast between the bear and this river. The problem is this bear just kept moving. You know and and I was hoping I was hand holding The equivalent of six hundred millimeters at an eighth of a second and the challenge technology has has advanced so much. The challenge was not me holding my hand. Still I can hold this lens at an eighth of a second. Get a perfectly sharp photograph except the beer kept moving and I was trying and trying and trying and I finally got it. And that's a long way of telling you about these circumstances but the the photograph just it you know you look on the back of the monitoring you just have this feeling that I can't even describing the moment itself with with the bear was unbelievable but that I finally after a couple of years nailed this one photograph in and captured that feeling of being there. It was pretty intoxicating. You just mentioned that. It's kind of difficult to describe. What is what is just about the feeling into kind of intuitive almost like emotional kind of reaction right to your own image. Probably like how would you try to define? What makes a good photograph? What is a good photograph for you? Well for okay. So there's two questions there are what does make a good photograph. And what makes a good photograph for me? I think everyone will have their own answer. There are there are reasons that we all make our own photographs. Things that we want to accomplish but for me. What makes a good photograph is one that engages that connects with people? You know when they look at it. They're not thinking. Oh I wonder what lens he made this with. Or what camera. I wonder what his histogram looked like. Oh my gosh. It's such a sharp photograph. There's something more their their story. There's poetry there's Emotion and mood that kind of thing that human connection where photographs goes a little bit past? The brain connects on a deeper level Not Without the brain but just on that deeper level where you're thinking about it days later or it makes you think a different thing or feel something. I just wanted to connect and you know the kind of photograph. It is will determine how it connects. But it's that connection that is so important to me. I do think because each one of us is constructed a different way we have different emotional structures and different memory is different histories and so on and then we always believed that. I mean those of us who are deep into the photography in Ohio really enjoying living it on a daily basis. We believed at what we feel will connect or connects with us. We'll kind of translate into you. Know we will send this message. Further and hopefully other viewers also connect to the image to the same story. So where do you think? Is this common denominator. Is there something like this? Which is kind of like a common emotional message that we can into image. I would say I would say common but not universal I think that you identified it rightly that we all have different memories and well so for example. This photograph that I made a bear. Some people were will react. with confusion. If they don't know that a white blackberry exists. I think it's a polar bear in Weiser standing in the middle of you know a rain forest Some people maybe that have had experience with a bear that is a deeply negative And have fear about it will feel a different thing about the photograph and someone that has spent time there in that location with maybe even the same bears will have yet another emotional reaction to this so I do think that there can be commonality and then our work will find its own audience. Some just some people just won't resonate with your work at all. They won't understand it. They won't like that's fine but you can't resonate with absolutely everyone but it will find its own audience and for those people. Yes that's those people are the people who feel this common thing about that photograph but even then it's not it's not specifically common is. Just I think in generalities do think Adding description at least titles photographs Mexican cute. Do you add captions and titles to your own images when publishing them. I think context is everything Tomas I think sometimes context can be important for example if I want my work to be put forward or to have a conservation message. I may include that photograph with a story or with a short paragraph. That explains some of the detail or some of the urgency or the statistics that are behind for example. These spirit bears or you know endangered an endangered shark or something. If you're using the photograph in that context yes it would provide more information than the photograph Cam but if you were putting it on a wall or submitting it for consideration for a major awards competition Then the caption would would be less at necessary because the work is stands on its own as as what it is so I think context is everything. Sometimes it's really helpful and understanding and other times it's it's not necessary
How to produce your own webinar with Glen Aspeslagh
"My guess is a CO founder of the popular all in one lie shooting production platform e Cam live. Please welcome Glen Asper slay. Hello Glen Haven Alley. How's it going? Oh super good now. Here's what's kind of funny is thank you so much for appearing on the show in such short notice I was actually working with the CAM. Live and I making do things that I'm sure you really didn't think of it to be designed for now going from a Mac to a PC I just I literally just push. This thing passed its limit. The maximum is not as powerful. Your tech support is absolutely phenomenal. I shot I shot them a message on a chat and within like ten minutes later they said. Just tell me what you want to accomplish. I wrote down. Here's the answer and within I'd probably say thirty minutes I had a perfect answer and a solution and I called my producer to tell them how exciting that was that often that we have down so anyways I very very excited and for those of you. That are listening. I'm sure a lot of you've watched our webinars on focus and even on Sky Lem and were using e Cam live and a lot of listeners. Been asking us. You know what platform using so who better to answer all of our questions that the CO founder Glen. You actually program too. Don't you Y- Is a small operation. Really my brother and I founded it My brother Ken and I are just Mack guys since birth and Matt Programmers. Ever since we were you know I guess ten years old. Wow so it it. It's like It's just our thing we've always done. We've always done software and we've been doing MAC software fulltime for. I guess ten years now. I loved your interaction with each other when you did the when. He launched the new versions. And you had a you guys got together you did. You did a little interaction I can tell you two brothers nothing I mean we we we love. We love doing that because we used to do. We do live on a cable. Show back when you know. Towns have public access cable studios so wondering when we were in high school we would do a show so you know twenty five years later when our marketing team wanted us to go actually go on camera we were like? Hey you know this is like old times. So so. Who's the older brother? Who's the older? You were a key candidates five minutes older. Oser your wanted twins but he always he always will deadpan. You Know No. We're the same age. That's what twins me someone asks. Well well I'm the youngest of six children in a in a very strong Italian Catholic family. So you can guess all the pranks and stuff were were taken out on. Me's the youngest child of that's awesome. We we love being on camera together when we love. We love this Having all these these numbers in and having a product that is just sorta center centered around. Social media is is just so much fun. Because it's it. It's not just the software in the coding and the technical things We just having a lot of fun. You know building a community and in doing videos and and making content. There's this the whole hoping of suspense such a blast. Great let's get to our topics and Topic is how to produce your own Webinar or stream live to facebook and to youtube and different platforms So what what was the purpose of designing e Cam live pretty excited about live streaming. When it first started to when facebook spurs started to promote their facebook product. We saw this as an opportunity to make a really user friendly Mac out to do live streaming and remember. I said Mac out because we don't do windows APPS We'RE NOT DOING. Iphone is tied right now. This is only on the map and we thought we had this background in audio and visual software. We can make this really slick easy to use APP. That just works really well and does one thing and does it well and that was what we wanted to tackle was this idea of of of live streaming really now a lot about live streaming gumming in like a really really cool thing to do. Well you guys definitely nailed it not ballpark So what are we talked about? Some of the features of Kim live now from my perspective. I can see from a designing phase. It's really simple to use. How did you guys come up with that? We wanted to do this. Sort of what you see is what you get interface. You know what I mean like when you go into can live you see. The main window is just an image of you of you. You know you whatever you see on that man windows exactly what your audience is. GonNa see so. That was the first thing we wanted to approach. We also wanted to have it really tightly integrated with facebook and in and then afterwards we added Youtube. It was originally thought of as a facebook product where with live streaming. I'm sure you're familiar with the concept. The best stream key and what a bit rate is and what you know. Resolutions and stuff. We wanted to sort of abstract that really sort of apple style. You know what I mean and say like we don't want people that need to notice Jim he is or what their bit rate is. We want to ask them questions like like that. We just want us to have a big blue button after you log in the facebook and you can go live on. You definitely definitely accomplished. I came from. I'm trying to think of the the platform now. It's a free software. I had a tip of my tongue. I lost it but so for three. One opiates Oh bs thank you. Yes yes yes. It's yes it's great but again like you just said you have to know your stream key. You have to know a lot of the stuff behind the scenes and that's just a little complicated and once you get the hang of it. It was fine but it looked to me like you took no. Bs Concept and just laid beautiful interface on top of it and said you don't need to know any of this other stuff. Click here if you WANNA go live. Click here if you want to just practice and publish it to yourself. So you know there was a lot of neat things. I've noticed for ease of use the way it was designed that that was a that was a big focus and then but then. I you know it started out really simple. The core feature is going live to facebook. Rolling prerecorded videos adding overlays and And screen sharing so those were the core features and then. Ironically you know when we started you know building a user base week people were were asking for features like crazy and we decided you know. Let's have some fun start having let's try and keep it really simple. You know not not make it into this big overwhelming. Why are cast or obese or something like that keep the interface really simple and yet still make it more and more powerful so now three years later it is has grown into this sort of full featured live streaming studio in. Our hope is that it's still. It's still easy to use and we didn't intimidate anyone no but multiple cameras which I thought was fascinating. I like the idea. You've ever boat gas via skype. So and I know we're using the software where we're using it more like a Webinar base. Where I'm teaching and I know you said in the beginning you ought to use it. So people can show demos and show to Tourelles I'm finding able to use it as a production to where I can't have. A couple of guests would be live from all over the country and they could share their demos so I switched to somebody like Abbas Shapiro. And so you know it's your turn. Show us what you would do with this image and Aiba takes over the screen and now all of us are watching his demo and then control come back to me and that I could switch it off to another person now. Was that stuff that you thought about the beginning or it just evolved into it. That kind of Kennedy came along a just kind of a bald The integration with SKYPE IS NEAT. Because it's it's it's not really it's not a hack at all skype. Has this concept of sending out the video sources of over the over an MD. I connection so we can tie that. They're Li seamlessly and like you said if if someone else's remote and they wanNA share their screen over skype that comes into ECON lab just like a camera. So you know you you plug a camera in Birmingham live at shows. Up this medically the same thing happens for a skype guest orest Guest sharing their screen so while there are kind of moving parts to the setup of doing Escape production once you have it all set at. Its It's pretty seamless and easy to switch around and punt and split screens and determine what we've what you want to be on the screen at any given time
FOMO and Managing the Exceptions
"Here's the editor of Lens. Work Publishing Brooks Jensen. I WanNa talk today. A little bit about the pragmatics of equipment and equipment selection relative to what it is that we want to produce. It's a topic that we've discussed before but there's a new take on it that I want to share about the nature of compromise to begin with there appears to be one prevalent strategy for choosing a camera and lens system and that strategy seems to be driven by the recently coined acronym. That's made its way into the photographic lexicon Thommo the fear of missing out and all you have to do is go look at camera reviews on Youtube or in the current crop of magazines. And you'll see that this is a big one. It's the primary marketing tool that camera. Manufacturers are using the implication being that you might miss a shot if you don't have the latest greatest camera but the premise of this idea. Is that the cameras should be capable of not only the photographs we routinely WANNA make but the ones that we might possibly WanNa make no matter. How unusual the circumstances and if we don't buy the right camera that is the one with maximum capabilities. We might find ourselves frustrated when that rare opportunity presents itself because of the limitations of our equipment and so they tell us we need to buy a piece of equipment that will handle every possible situation. I'm not sure that's the best strategy. For the simple reason that it unquestionably over engineers. Most of what we do. It also fails to include an important part of the decision making process known as the opportunity cost. Now for those of you who are not familiar with the term opportunity cost. The opportunity cost is what you have to pay as a result of the decision that you made to buy something else so for example if you buy a very high megapixel camera that's GonNa cost you a bunch of time Time to copy the files over to your computer and hard drive space and etc. Those are all things that you're going to have to give up efficiency of time efficiency of storage. You'RE GONNA have to give up all of that in order to pay for the advantage of having a high megapixel camera and speaking of that crazy megapixel rat race. We seem to be involved in. This whole idea seems to me to be wholly based on the idea that we might. I repeat might want to make a large print. Well let's look at that for just a minute. As an example of compromise and how we might alternatively managed the exceptions if we don't have a high megapixel camera for example so the theory of having a high megapixel camera is that we wanna make really big prints but of course if you WanNa make really big prints you need a really big printer and so there's costs involved. They're not just for the high megapixel camera but for the printer and the paper and ink in its CETERA. Now maybe you you'll use a service so you don't have to own the printer but let's set that aside for now because it has its own sort of mathematics involved in it. Let's just assume that you WANNA make your own prince so you need a big printer so the opportunity cost of having the need to make really big prince. Is You have to spend money on a big printer which means you don't have that money available for travel for lenses for paying for models or whatever else you have to sacrifice in order to buy the printer so let. Let's look at a few of these numbers just for grins. And by the way I know numbers are hard to follow in an audio podcast. But I'll try to do my best to make it simple. Let's look at for example. Epson printers in their list price so seventeen inch printers run between twelve hundred and two thousand dollars. How many mega pixels do you have to have to use these seventeen inch printers to make say a Standard Sixteen by twenty print at two hundred and forty? Ppi well you need a whopping eighteen mega pixels? That's it anything over eighteen mega pixels. If all you'RE GONNA make is sixteen by twenty prints is really not necessary unless you do a lot of cropping and things like that and obviously if you buy a seventeen inch printer you don't intend on making any images bigger than sixteen by twenty so you really don't need anything bigger than eighteen megapixel unless you wanNA printed a little higher resolution like three hundred or three sixty or something like that which I'll get to a just a minute. Let's say you WANNA make even bigger prince so you invest somewhere between twenty three hundred and forty seven hundred dollars which probably more than you paid for your camera on a twenty four inch printer. Now you can make twenty by twenty four inch standard size photographic prints at two hundred forty P P I. How many mega pixels will you'll need? Well you'll need twenty eight Megapixel for twenty by twenty four inch print. That's it so why spend the money for the sixty year one hundred megapixel high resolution camera unless there's some other reason than a large print but let's say you're interested in really pushing the envelope so you step up to a forty four inch printer and all? That's involved with that in terms of paper sizes and Matt Sizes and frames and Cetera. So you have a forty four inch printer and you paid somewhere between five thousand and thirteen thousand dollars for it. You are serious about this right so now you can make a thirty by forty inch print at two hundred and forty. Ppi You will need a sixty nine megapixel image for thirty by forty inch print. Okay so now you can sort of justify those high megapixel cameras because you need sixty nine megapixel but wait a minute. The reason you buy a forty four inch printer and all that's required to make it successful including the camera is because you are in pursuit of excellence. You're really pushing the envelope. You WanNa make print that is so outstanding that it's beyond technical question whatsoever which means you probably won't want to print a two hundred and forty. Ppi because a print it three hundred PPI or maybe even some people say three hundred and sixty PPI is microscopically better. And that's what you're interested in pursuing is the microscopically better. Well what do you need in order to make a thirty by forty inch print at say three hundred sixty PPI? Well if you work out the math you need a three hundred eleven megapixel camera which doesn't exist. And as a matter of fact your sixty or seventy megapixel high resolution full frame camera isn't even close to providing that kind of resolution which means that it will require some sort of compromise and the compromise might be that you have to do some stitching multiple exposures piece them all together to make the three hundred eleven megapixel file or you have to print at a lower. Ppi on your forty four inch printer to get your thirty by forty inch. Print and this is the nugget of the issue the requirement for some sort of compromise. I would propose to you that. All of photography is some sort of compromise and with that in mind than the fear of missing out takes on a different kind of reality. It's it's not really sane to be worried about the fear of missing out. It seems to me the more reasonable policy. The more reasonable strategy is to figure out what the exceptions are and try to manage those so if we thought through our choice of equipment sufficiently. I think it's fair to say that our choice will be made based on the fact that it serves us well for what ninety or ninety five percent of the pictures we WANNA make in my case. That's micro four thirds and it's perfect for my needs. That is to say probably covers ninety percent of the photographs that I wanna make in the size that I wanna make it okay. Fine but what about the exceptions? I'm obviously compromised with that camera. And it sensor size in its resolution in etc and there are some exceptions that are going to crop up that that Kamara's gonna be a problem for me. So what about that five or ten percent of the time when? That camera is not sufficient. What do I do then? Well seems like two choices. I can either forget about those images and just don't make them and concentrate on the ninety or ninety five percent of the images. I can make with my camera and be perfectly happy with it or I can figure out ways to manage the exceptions and develop reasonable work arounds.
"On today's show. I'm talking to Michael British fine photographer. Best known for his images of black and white landscapes. His work has been displayed. All over the world he has permanent exhibitions in the Museum of Decorative Arts in the Victorian Albert Museum in London National Gallery of art in Washington. Dc and in the Bibliotheque in Paris. Let's dive straight into my conversation. Ninety nine percent of your photographs are square format black and white images as far as I know and you have been doing that for for for more than forty years. So how on earth does one stay motivated and keeps shutting mainly landscapes in the same format for for such a long time. Good Morning Tom. Shannon Seattle you're in Switzerland so it's a slightly different time zones. I'm very interested statistic of ninety nine percent that you could be ninety seven point seven five. I don't ask much well. You know I I started with many different is many different. Cameras experimented with the panoramas in thirty five millimeters horizontal eight by ten four by five. Lots of different ones for the first ten years. I I use thirty five millimeter. I found as often happens when using the same camera over and over it becomes to be predictable which is has the pros aide also has comes because you tend to get little trapped into those formats and I moved into the two and a quarter medium in the mid eighty s purposely to break up my rhythm essentially on now used a waist level finder so everything was back to fronton slimy upside down and made photographing a little more difficult. And I think that is one of the keys to photography generally is that we don't want to get too comfortable at anyone at any one time. Now I've been using this camera on off since the mid eighties so yes thirty years thirty years to great camera at the same time. I've experimented with different other formats die off news holders little cheap plastic cameras I often feel that the camera has very little do to do with the photographic journey just happens the hassle but I use is is is really a utilitarian quite precise but very basic camera. It comes with his basic functions of Lens Body Film back Viewfinder and those are interchangeable. So if they break down I can replace them days. I can old lawn mower for me. I I know the camera very well. I don't think it has much to do with the camera in terms of one's passion for photography. I think it has much more to do with one's in a drive to discover to be curious to constantly be investigated and explorer I can see you know using the same camera for the next two hundred years and finding sufficient material to keep you motivated for many lifetimes. That never been an issue with me. There are so many places so many countries so many things to photograph them. I just look at that. I I just don't ever see it as an issue kind of the lack of inspiration for me. It is much more a matter of trying to rein in all the divergent diverse. Numerous different possibilities and I hope that that is for everyone is just life is so amazing the Janica so amazing though so many fantastic places to go photographs that it's difficult for me to understand kind of the lack of inspiration lack of drive. I think there's so much out there when you talk about the cameras you actually answered my question. You know which I have prepared for later so because I can imagine that Photographic equipment itself. You know camera. Lenses are relatively low exactly on your personal credit but in order to pursue a certain vision certain look or simply a similar format of images to choose photographic gear accordingly right. I think it means to me. It would make sense to us a digital camera with all these bells and whistles for example. It's just not my character. Ibkr semi old is like an old guitar. I've been playing these niyaz years. Yes go into electronics. Thrall Bandon all these other things but when it comes down to the instrument you're using it needs to be a part of your body almost a part of your creative function. I have no interest in the GADGETRY. A as such Simpler the better for my way of working but that is just me and as you say. Everybody has to choose their own instrument of communication so for some people it is drones and and various new cameras on techniques. And and that's perfectly fine. It just doesn't fit with my way of working. What was it that extended to you about this square format? You are mainly known for square format images. Right I would think so at this point. Yes but certainly wasn't the first ten years of Korea because I did use it. What fascinates me? I think it is. It is for me. An Open universe I don't find that. I am confined as with most other. Formats such as thirty five millimeter. In which as I mentioned you already have to make decisions of whether they should be horizontal vertical. And how do I fit things into this rectangle with a square you'll basically playing with four equal sides and so you can compose accordingly? I still have the option often. Use it to crop lighter not necessarily into scored. If you actually look at work I do. Not many of them are real scores. A slightly horizontal slightly vote to goal. Sometimes I make score into a panorama either vertical or horizontal. So for me. It just gives me an enormous amount of flexibility. Would you say Composing Square format? Composing Damages is in a way easier or is it just more open. I mean like you know gives you more options. I think it gives you more options. I don't think it's either. Easier are more difficult. I think it's just another possibility. And how about black and white. Because again I I would be hard pressed. I think to to recall a color image of yours. Only commercial only commercial work. I just can't find. I have a proclivity towards the monochromatic spectrum. So most of the work that I that I appreciate his monochromatic. Black White again. It's it's just a personal thing. I've often say that we we see in color all the time. That's how world so when you reduce something to black and white. It immediately becomes more of an interpretation. It's mysterious or more calming offer. Me More meditational almost often use the the the the reference to writing and I said I prefer to be more of a Haiku poem we just a few elements of simplicity but a great amount of suggestion as opposed to an insight encyclopedia with huge amounts of facts and description. That is not what I'm interested in doing road Does happen at all these days for you that you you know using whatever it might be Shoot some color images while not seriously I mean I recently finally came around to getting one of these smartphone things so I can take snaps of wherever I go in. Another polaroid doesn't exist this. Icu very useful. Because it tells me what I am when I go back later to Reference Place so yes. I photograph in color just to make snacks. But it really doesn't interest me very much into the first thing I do is converted back into a white to see what it looks like. I just find black and white enables you to use your imagination much more than color. But it's a personal thing in one of your interviews from from several years ago. I guess you said there are great photographs by ordinary photographers and ordinary photographs by great photographers. Smart knows days so let me ask you. You know for your own. Very subjective opinion. How often does Michael Kenna manage to to produce a great photograph? I'm still trying haven't got one yet but one of these days. That's an impossible question because you could never put out to the description of one of your own photographs are you are you. Are you happy own photography? Never an I don't think one should be Yes contend that I'm on this wonderful journey as being an amazing Expedition But I. I don't think anybody should ever be satisfied with what they do want. You be striving. You know there's this you know. My favorite football team has Everton and they have this motto. It's called nil. Satis newsy optimum which wanting means nothing but the best is good enough so you give your best all the time. You strive for perfection all the time but hopefully you never reach it because if you reach perfection the the image probably would interesting is one of the things I resist with. The digital revolution is that is so easy to make things so perfect so clean so tidy that they kind of lose the ability to To evoke a reaction to evoke emotion it becomes a little antiseptic. I think So affect Striving for perfection is wonderful. But but I don't think I've ever reached out ever. Will I hope
The Full-Time Real Estate Photographer
"Welcome back to another episode of this week in photo. I'm your host Frederick then Johnson. Today I have pleasure being joined by Mr Thomas. Large Lettuce is a Massachusetts based real estate photographer. Who is it his mission to teach other people how to do the same thing? He's crushing it in Massachusetts. And you know you're gonNA find out why and how and how you can possibly do the same thing in your own area. Thomas Welcome to the show man how you doing thank you. I'm doing good. Yeah this is good so just behind the scenes. We've been trying to do this interview for a while now but we were plagued by technical difficulties but both of us. Don't give up so we are. We are writing. I'm excited to do. So let's let's start with just a little background on you you know. So germ our previous conversations off line. I know that you were an agent. That transitioned into this side of the real estate world. Tell us about that sort of the origin. Story of Thomas sure So I wasn't exactly born with the camera in my hand. So that the way that I came to this place is kind of a mix of Random or aimless stumbling through life and it has a lot to do with An interest that I've always had in life in photography specifically but in business of always been really interested in starting and running my own business in fact I've started and failed at many many different businesses over the years Then I spent some time in the military after I came out Was when I got my real estate license. Which is another business idea of mind? Getting into real estate and Eventually my business. My real estate business started to pick up to the point where I was getting a lot of listings and I had some negative experiences with a local. Real Estate Photographers. So I had this idea or it gave me this idea of of you know. Maybe I'll try and do this for myself. And it took awhile took some practice I think fast forward a couple of years before I was actually pretty competent at it but once I started taking really high quality real estate images. People would ask me. You know who might photographer was and I tell them it was me so they would ask me. Hey while you did a great job on your listing. Can you come and shoot mine after a few inquiries like that of other agents calling me asking me about my photographer? Which was me. I decided to make the switch into turning into like a serious business. Not just doing it for myself. You know it took me a couple of months when I when I pulled the trigger and I'm like it's time to to actually take. This seriously took a couple of months but that's still really really short period of time When I started to replace my other sources of income and then now today it's my primary source of income Razi. That's what I want. I want to just explore that just for a second because you mentioned that you you transition from agent in to real estate photographer. How does you know what I I'm? This is coming from. A place of ignorance. Obviously not a real estate agent. Never I've never been on that side. Though I've sold a couple of houses and I know that commission that the agencies get is a good chunk of change so does that does the real estate photography replace those those those chunks of changes the change that you get. Oh Yeah Commissions. Completely crazy more than more than than completely. I mean more making more doing photography than I did doing real estate and I was doing well with real estate. Yeah I think it was the not the first calendar year but after the first twelve months of me starting this business and officially diving in I broke through the six figures and income and And it just keeps going up and up every year because the way that I get clients and the way that I manage my client. Relationships is super efficient. And I'm able to get a myself and my business in front of a lot of a lot of people in a short period of time and I'm able to provide them such a positive experience. Not just in the quality of the work but Fair pricing fast turnarounds. Great Customer Service. They stay so most people most real estate agents that call me for I listing that. I'm going to shoot for them They keep calling me back and the odds of them calling me back for every single listing for the rest of their career as extremely high. Like the I don't have very many people that have worked with me and then have switched to someone else so so client retention is is high with real estate photography. I mean if the agent is getting good work at a good price and they like you. Why would they even look for someone else? They don't so agents that are having a good experience they stay with you for a long time and then a real estate agent is going to list on the low end one or two properties a year for sale and on the high end one or two properties a- day in some cases so yeah there's some agents that I work with that they they literally make millions of dollars in real estate commission which is amazing but that means they sell a ton of property so building a professional relationship with them Is is huge about that. Because that's the other piece of this. That a lot of people that are that are watching this in that are listening in interested in getting real safe and the first step is okay. That sounds great. But how do you break into that? You know clearly. Thomas had a lot of breaks and luck and all this stuff how do I get into? How do I get my first real estate client? What would your advice be to those people well There's a couple of things that I'd like to pack out of that first. So you mentioned breaks and luck so if you just take a snapshot of my life my business today and you could say wow. He is lucky when I reflect on my life. I I tell myself like I am really super lucky but It was a lot of work to get to this point and the businesses running itself. Because of you know I built up a team. That takes run to the LEGWORK. We can talk about like the actual amount of time. I even have to put into photography. These days actually Which is not. It's not much built up a team and I built up a system that Works really well in this business and a lot of trial and error and in a couple of months I started to replace my other source my other income like real estate commissions But it was lots of failures and a lot of trial and error and a lot of Learning that took place even leading up to that point because like I said I've been involved in a ton of different businesses. So so you know. Yeah I've been lucky personally. Like things have worked out well for me but It's it's been a ton of work to get there And I want to point that out because you don't necessarily need a lucky break to build the business if even if everything was playing against you to build a business like this because it's like it's so easy to get in front of clients and the rules that you have to follow to create high quality real estate photography are are very straightforward now. If you're a photographer and you're not even interested in real estate photography. Maybe you didn't really think about it as a serious source of income or maybe you are but you're not really sure if you should get into it. I like to point this out. I have people in my audience. We even mentioned. I have the reason why I'm on this podcast. Because of my podcasts we have it so I I also host the podcast and I wrote a book on Real Estate Photography And a lot of people in my audience will be photographers of not just real estate. But they'll be portrait photographers or infant photographers or Family portraits of some people that like to focus on fine art and even wedding photographers people. Who are busy on weekends? Or maybe after their day job and they're like how can I make some more money? Add some dollars to my bottom line or take this passion of this hobby of mine. Actually start turning it into a money. You know to to either fund or to finance those bigger projects those passion projects. You have in mind or if you wanted to take it down the path that I have Support your entire life. Your you know your mortgage your car payments vacations with just photography. So there's a bunch of different approaches and a bunch of different reasons. Why people should get into it. I think especially if you WANNA take photography seriously.
So You Want to Do a Book
"Here's the editor of Lens Publishing Bruce. Jensen almost every photographer. I know wants to do a book of their work. I cannot tell you how many conversations I've had over the years with photographers. Who particularly in review sessions say? I'm here primarily because I'm looking for a publisher and would you be interested in publishing my work or if you're not interested in publishing my work can you tell me how to find a publisher or what. I have to do to produce a book of my work even if it means funding it and producing it themselves all well and good the problem. Is that when I talk with these photographers? A little more deeply about their desire to do a book of their work. I've found that few of them have any clear idea why they WANNA do a book. There's lots of fantasies that crop up about what they think book is going to do for them but generally speaking those are unrealistic ideas and there are primarily five of them that I've identified over the years that are reasons people say for wanting to produce a book and I WanNa take a look at those five reasons and and look a little more deeply at them so here they are the first thing people say is they wanna make money and they think that rather than selling their original prints they think they can make money by selling books second. They think a book will help them broaden their audience get their artwork their photographs in front of more eyeballs. And that's what they're primarily interested in his audience and so a book to them. We'll get a lot more people to see their work than having say an exhibition third. They say they want to add their voice to photographic history. They somehow perceive all the famous photographers. They know come from their experience of seeing work in books relative to galleries. We see a lot more books than galleries and exhibitions and museums and etc. And so they think they can add their voice to photographic history by producing a book and somehow put themselves in the Pantheon of the march of photographic artwork through the ages fourth. They say they want to be taken seriously or the way I tend to think of it is they somehow think that producing a book of their work is going to be some sort of validation of their artwork like they've arrived particularly if a publisher a third party agrees and solicits them to publish their work. That that's some sort of validation rather than if they were to self publish. Which has a lot less validation about it. And the fifth reason people say they want to produce a book is because they want to produce something for the ages they think somehow that producing a book will be more substantial than producing just their individual photographic prints and having a book out there that's in libraries or special collections or owned by people means that their work will live beyond them so there's a mortality issue involved now curiously enough all five of these common reasons people offer up for why they WANNA produce book have one thing in common and that is that they think somehow the medium of book publishing holds the key to all of this success when in fact the medium of book publishing is just a medium. It's another way to get your work out there in the world but it really doesn't hold the key to any of this success in fact what is the key that opens up. All of these doors is the quality of their work. But it's so much easier to focus on the medium than on making better more meaningful more sensitive higher quality photographs that. That's a mystery about how to do that. Every one of us are involved in that mystery. And that's what I call leading the creative life is figuring out how to make more impactful artwork. That is true to ourselves and at the same time share something of value with people. That's hard work and that's very difficult to do. Making a book by comparison is relatively easy and so the focus becomes. Let's zero in on the medium rather than on the work. Well maybe not to the exclusion of the quality of the work. But somehow the idea is that the medium will unlock all the doors and it just doesn't because each one of these has some problems involved with them and I want to take them one at a time. So let's start with making money. The problem with wanting to produce a book of your work in order to make money is that the financial aspects of. It's simply don't work the book. Business is not a very healthy business right now partly because costs continue to escalate on what it takes to produce a book tax laws work against you because essentially they make it a one year project. You can't any longer amortize your costs over the life of the book and there's this nitpicky thing called break even so. I know it's hard to follow numbers but let me see if I can share these fairly simply. Let's say it's GonNa cost you twenty five dollars to produce a book that's paper printing binding. The cost for the printer at twenty five dollars is what is going to cost you to produce your book and let's say you can sell your book for Fifty Dollars Good. Looks like you're going to double your money. The problem is in order to get the cost of the book to be as low as twenty five dollars for example you might have to print a whole bunch of them and just keep the math simple. I'll say you have to print a thousand so twenty five dollars per book a thousand a year into it twenty five thousand dollars and let's say that you can sell them for fifty dollars if you work out the math you realize you'll have to sell five hundred books just in order to recuperate. Your initial investment of the twenty. Five Thousand Dollars. It takes to produce the book and by the way it may not be your twenty five thousand dollars. It may be the twenty five thousand dollars of the publisher. It's the same thing they're only going to make that financial gamble. If it makes sense for them so the question becomes. Do you have the ability to sell five hundred books well again to make it simple? Let's talk about self publishing so you put up to twenty five thousand dollars. You produce the thousand bucks now. You've gotta go out and sell them. Well you start with your friends and acquaintances and your family. But of course a bunch of them are GonNa want a book for free so they may or may not give you fifty dollars a book because after all they're your friends and family etc and so let's be generous. Let's say you have two hundred friends and family members all of whom are willing to pay you fifty dollars for your book okay. That's two hundred out of the five hundred that you have to sell in order to break. Even you got three hundred books left to go now who you going to sell those two. You've already exhausted all the easy contacts. You have your friends and family. Now you've got to go out to the general public. Somehow which means you've gotta get bookstores involved which means distributors which means that the Reseller the bookstore is GonNa WanNa make some money and if you work through a distributor. They're gonNA WANNA make some money so you're no longer GONNA get fifty dollars book. You're going to get probably maybe twenty five dollars a book which is barely going to cover the cost of printing and binding. So you're not gonNA make any money on those now sudden you have to sell way more than five hundred books in order to recover your initial investment. Making money with a book is almost an impossible proposition. Now you can. And here's where it gets seductive. There are photographers. There are publishers. Who MAKE MONEY SELLING BOOKS. But the reason they do is because they have already an existing huge market when a famous photographer ansel Adams or well. Let's take somebody who's contemporary to take. Steve McCurry of Steve McCurry wants to produce a book. The greatest chances are he's going to make money on that book because he Steve McCurry because there are lots and lots of people who are fans of his well. How many fans to you have? If you're a very famous individual then maybe you can make money with books but probably for most of us. That's not a realistic assumption. So making money has gotta cross that one off the list because it's probably not going to happen in fact it's probably going to cost money. You might say well. I'll do a blurb book okay. Fine but you're not gonNA make any money on a blurb book because the book that sells for fifty dollars. That's produced blurbs. Probably GONNA cost you fifty dollars to produce it at blurb and so there's no margin there there's no way for you to make money might get your workout in the world but making money through books is almost an impossibility and less. You're already famous. Which always reminds me of that. Great Mark Twain quote when he said banks are always happy to loan you money when you can prove that you don't need it.
A Moment in Time, with Shari Belafonte
"Today. We're GONNA be talking sheriff about photography. So let's get into it Sherry. Welcome to our show. It's so great having Jose here so you have grown up around cameras now as a little kid all my life cameras aimed at you most again. Your Dad was Trenton Center. He was big deal. Back in the fifties sixties seventies. He broke down a lot of walls. Again everybody's familiar with his music and his acting and everything else. So you're smiling laughing about so. I was very hyperactive. Attention deficit as a child. I still lamb a little curtail with certain things now making native American blood you know wearing a bright orange camp right now you WanNa talk about it. Yeah Orange there you go. There's fast on. Go ahead I'm sorry. My Grandmother gave me my first Brownie camera. Now that's how far back I with the fan flash that you put the light bulb shit so I had that one. I was four years old. How many megapixel was and you would get this little tiny roll of film that you would put inside that Yummy and That was my first foray into being behind the camera and then instamatic semantic when I was I think I had a funny little polaroid camera that we had them all And my first legitimate camera was a pentax when I was eleven years old. Okay I was in boarding school by Matic or h three the it was. You know I can't remember I just. It was a thirty five millimeter Pentax Camera. That was dad's I know. Dad had a SPA top. Any passed it down to me so my entire high school was spent in the dark room. I smell like smoke. That was really attractive. Smell coming out of the yellow fingernails sitting in the dark. You Know Rolling and Rolling Rolling Rolling and then you know praying that you could put it in the CAN. It would come out and it wasn't all crumpled and you know so. Yeah I spent a good part of my earlier years behind the camera. And then of course like you said being Harry's daughter you know when we when he was on tour somewhere and there's Paparazzi or people taking pictures of us all the time and then Harry took pictures of us all the time that we never saw and it was the biggest joke because he was he always got get over there. Get OVER THERE. Get over there. Stop Stop Standards There. Hundreds and hundreds of pictures that were taken by. Harry and we've never seen a single one single. And why do you think that's the case? He just too busy to Kinda know if he ever developed and I don't know if there was even filmed the camera I think he had these Lycos and he just you know he just kept shooting once in a while. We saw him because he would. When he was a touring he would have these The program with this and it was always the big color program that would come with new. Buy A ticket and there would be pictures of us you know in there and we go to dad. Shoot that picture around. The house was photography kind of a respected medium. Was it an art to be an art. He did have a darkroom which he never went into. He just had it in the back next his recording studio but he did use a recording studio. Did use the recording. But Yeah we always have been shutterbugs. I think the whole definitely me more so than I think my siblings but Harry was definitely behind the camera. He was into like us us a very like a like like like scandal. And what about the Paparazzi and stuff? Maybe it wasn't. I can't even say that it wasn't like it is now because Paparazzi but was it A pain in the bud. Was it something that you guys so I was so used to? You know because what happened is my hair Harry. In Marguerite. My mom was marguerite. She passed away a few years go but they divorced. When I was very young actually separated woman was pregnant with me so there was always that kind of people trying to take pictures of that that was going on but there was a little more of a sense of decency for lack of better words with authorizing I mean. Now it's like Oh goes the there were lines. That were not crossed back then. I mean chances and stuff like that and they they definitely probably got onto your skin right probably worse today and usually think it was more of a magazine would come in. Ebony magazine would come in and say you know. Can we shoot you at home or and you know there was a story that was behind it and maybe the attorneys would go yet. It's good idea. Let's let's push that you know. Yeah we've always been around cameras for yourself. It's often family. What kind of things interested you would sort of you know? In the days I was in boarding school in Massachusetts so I I've always been a fan of black and white. I never learned how to process color and of course slides for the first things. You sort of learned. I never learned how to process but I was always into the dynamic of black and white so with the snow in Massachusetts. There was always the lights and shadows and you can stream you know falling through the ice no save. The camera saved the camera. Shot landscapes mostly landscapes. And then I shot everything and then as I got older and could start a fording stuff. I actually stopped shooting for a while and then when Sam. I got married thirty five years ago. Sam gave me my first Yoeskamnoer. I had by then already onto Canon cameras. But you know hey a one and the that great but then Sam gave me my first Kammer after maybe not shooting for ten years and we went on our honeymoon to Italy and I just shot like crazy like bags and bags film was carrying at the time. Kodak made what was called recording fill in the recording. Four seventy five four and as soon as you develop it would turn into a corkscrew that you can never hold flat that I didn't know because by then I wasn't processing okay but Three hundred you could you. Could you could set the The whatever you wanted I mean you couldn't with any film but this was if you decided to shoot at or if you wanted to shoot one hundred thirty two hundred or sixty four hundred. Just remember what you shot that at and you'd process it like if I shot four hundred three sixty I process it at four hundred by shoot at three sixty and I mean the detail was. It's crazy it's like mega pixels eight thousand and I just fell in love with that and then when Kodak stopped making it because they said well you know nobody's buying it because it was twelve dollars a roll and I know buying it. No please keep making and then shortly after you know film just kind of went by the wayside and now it's coming back. Is it coming back to us? Sales were up twenty percent last year. So you now actually have to try and find a film camera. I still actually have a rebel. Okay okay isn't it rebel? Originally rebels were killed. What was called the digital rebel? No megapixel but I did have for the Canon thirty and I was started shooting movies of Friends of mine. Who were directors said? Would you shoot stills movie and I remember get going into get a sound blimp made for my digital camera and the guys in you and Steven Spielberg's guy or the only people that have blimps for you. These eight thirty eight sixty. Whatever I add albertson blimp. Right Jacobsen Jacobsen recently closed down. There's no need for any other. No ex- exactly. I've got this this whole box downstairs in the garage is because like don't need the blimp. Next time lenses by the I worked on a movie as recently as Twenty fifteen and with a digital camera and they recorded a blimp ahead to go rent one. I mean even even that little clique. If you're onset now we have an issue thousand frames so that one was especially digital you shoot so fast. The first movie I did shoot I had asked me me. Leaders a friend of mine and she also is the executive producer and director of the morning. Show but at the time going back. You know fifteen twenty years. Whenever it was that I was shooting this I said to her. You know this is the first time shooting for a movie. What she's just keeps shooting shoot. Shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot so I did. I shot eight thousand seven hundred and seventy eight frames and thought okay. You know. I'm their mom. Put them all and give them. And then oh no we just need your best hundred. It took me like three weeks to go through every single one of those because I really looked like I was shooting movie. Everything was so slightly different. They know what would you take away from that experience? Really get an editor back to that five role mentality you know. They'll have a budget for three to five roles. And that's what you did shooting digital change anything when you when you shoot because obviously it did change a lot for a lot of people in this idea of shooting maybe too much or a lot or just the freedom they can give you. Some really changed a lot of people's now you know everything is it cyclical now. I've barely picked up my camera now. Also have a Sony seven hours and shooting with my Samsung Galaxy's the galaxy the first galaxy thing. I had a four note for one of the earlier. Ones the best pictures I've ever seen. I went on my God. Look at these pictures that I'm getting on my phone and now I have a lot of my family's mostly apple. Nothing you know not against apple but galaxies have much better pictures you know the Samsung just really has the better technology shooting with your phone and I know friends of mine even say your pictures are so much better than mine. Why is that slow data Samsung if Samsung only made and take get another phone? Get Your Samsung Stolz. But I still like I still like the weight of having a camera and shooting the cameras a different different animal. But now you know. There's a difference for photographers. I never was would call professional photography gallery shows and stuff but I'm not like Greg Gorman. Who was a friend of mine? I didn't shoot and I'm not making money like that as a photographer. And right now so many you can take so many pictures. I mean anybody can get good picture with their phone. You know you can. It's easier to get good pictures now than it used to be. You know you'd have to have a professional photographer do that. Well now I you know people take headshots their phones movies with your eyes. You can do anything. Us forces us to kind of rethink what I should be taking pictures of. And how many pictures should be taking reassessed kind of the nature of it and that's happening. I think you know this return to film. We're seeing people kind of wanting to slow back down a little bit trying to figure out what what's the basis of it. That's really what it is. It's it's a medium. It's like if you're an oil painter if you're into acrylics or if you're doing you know pencil drawings if you're into sculpture it's a it's all worthy it's just a matter of what your taste isn't what it is that you're shooting at that