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Coming out stories: Jessie
"Going to hear from Jesse now she's a singer a Dj and also a radio presenter. Oh I get to work alongside a radio one of other jobs. She was just in her final week. Him Co presenting. The breakfast show in this interview was recorded. I identify as a female lesbian growing up in Essex. It was very much like with the popular girls over the time at school and not just knew the. It was pretty goes. I was friends. Wave always in that popular group of the sports teams with And we always got the good looking boys kind of hovering around us of which obviously they became like really good friends with them. But I remember thinking why is shade? Itin him why is Hay's eighteen because I always though maybe I'll just fancy my friend school because she's really pretty say alike court she was. She's really outgoing. Range really popular. She's great person. You know that kind of thing thinking maybe I don't actually fancier live a new audit. I used to talk myself out of. It's just because you like what she's wearing kind of thing. So did you have a full-on crush with friends are modum best friend car. We speak about it now. All the time I always had quite pretaped. Fem boyfriends like the real girly pretty looking. Boys Lot really gorgeous. I mean sticker wig on like you have me different. You know a really long blonde hair and blue eyes that kind of thing but I would always got like a boy in the school for like two free weeks then that want to have a case whatever else fancy many more fancy someone else so you got around it that way you ever. Did you ever have any so-social called coincide? We're boys well had boyfriends growing up but like never kind of pass the quite kissing unquote phase until I got to sixteen. Hottest boyfriend is v day and he was a couple years older than me. When I sixteen. Yes I lost my virginity to a boy and experience. I just knew it wasn't I mean not love him but not like that mean and decide. I Wa- I was with him for year and I was thinking I don't want this to happen anymore. From the age of sixteen I moved away from home to go to this performing Arts College. I went to London. Said cops mean just slightly out of London and I lived there all of a sudden I got all this freedom from the age of sixteen had quite a bit of money in my account. Because I've done a lot of like TV jobs. Growing up performing arts stage shows in the western moments safety from got spunk connor. Sixteen I got friends. Who the Guy Boys Era Doreen Bird for college and obviously used to be like a fried are like come on. We got into town and we'd go to like heaven in London G. Y. When it was a story in London sixty nights not so it was in the ninety S. I'm yeah yeah late nineties and it was just incredible. I remember the first time we can in thinking. I just feel so high and at the time I still have this boyfriend in Essex. The LOST MARVELED UNITY TO I. Don't use remember standing in Heaven under the arches in London. And there's like this kind of Baolcony bit that surrounds the dance floor and you look down dots on remember seeing this girl. She's really fit and I was really attracted to. I don't just couldn't help a thou- I don't speaking my friends my gay male friends and they didn't know what I was going for all. She's happy to be going out with them to these gay ause. I thought you were straight gail. Just hanging around with look coming out for the law a few drinks always the Joe. Ca- me some looking down the balcony and this girl. She keeps looking at me but I couldn't say to my friends because it didn't know Oth- oh maybe a light boys and girls and that's okay. I've got bisexual friends. Maybe having all this free my heads the guys went to the toilet. Now you know what guys like when I go to the toilet. I took forever in the them. Guideline that stock saw. I like all way here knew exactly what I was doing. I just as they went away. I said make sure you come back away in this box. It was always packed. I'm looking at with the dance floor and she's gone whereas Cisco Gone Looking for. Oh what am I going to turn round? She was there a my face. She went you guy. And Yeah a believer city. I just went and we still kissing and it was like the most incredible experience of my entire life. I had my first Lesbian Kiss in heaven. Then she went on what she name. I was like Jesse and she said Oh. Hi I'm Laura. I'm just going to tell my friends where I am. And she she was doing didn't show. Yes you slightly older. The me lie. She knew and I'll just start as low fly baby into dancing when she starts then he walks off Patrick Species Leffler. That was me I was like. I was all in a panic but it was amazing. Incredible Fade in the NFL. And she go back Laura. Laura thought Noah I'll tell you so she didn't come back but you know I was kind of relieved because my friends then came back from the toilet and I did not explained by the way. I'm a lesbian now because I didn't know how always failing so they just about the toilet and things ripple nothing happening here and my friends. My best friend crease. He was longer than usual. So a Wolfer the dance ought to say and this. Chris was out yet. Either Chris Wherever you not. We've all been waiting for you. The was still up the balcony bay towards the toiler. This time I said. Where have you been all that was a massive Qaeda's a massive q? And Chris a totally black game and deny walk. Bad person for doing this is because I wanted to tell him what did just happen to me. I'll make Chris. Don't lie a know your I of just seeing you kissing this guy outside the toiler Ole all. Please don't tell anybody score Asia's whatever Russkoe shocked by the way. I'm very sorry to to the Scottish people but yeah I told him. Talk Bobby off just kissed. A girl just jumped this massive hug all throughout college. Chris was gay arm lesbian. We just had this collection together that nobody knew we love here so he had been kissing a boy saw. The toiler wouldn't totally blocked and got it. Rai Yes a totally go awry stays this one night of say Dave and tell you I was wearing. I remember every dates how it was such a massive. Carter point in my life. It was an awakening an awakening. It why love is the fact that you literally have sounds like that was the first time you'd ever verbalize those words. I'm gay and then within about three seconds you're kissing a woman. She just stuck tongue thrown up for where she's bloody gorgeous. She's ready Fan. I'M NOT GONNA say no and honestly wanted for such a long time and then obviously a couple of months down the line. Chris and I start going out together and my best friend best friend from college and like it was just so amazing. I had this guy best friend the I could be myself around all that stuff going school on new fancy my best friend at school. Actually I'd accepted everything. Do you ever told you best friend at school. I've told her since we still in really good contact now and we did have a bit of a case in a nightclub in the she went. You always fancied SCO avenue it co- cover stop it but yeah on. A sleigh is just amazing and then going through. I realized I thought I liked boys as well. I thought I was bisexual because I had such love. You still have this boy talk. So what happened to him? Well I just kind of Went Down Essex to visit my family to visit him. Nauseous largest is just not for me. Didn't she say to him? I can't be reviewed because on lesbian artist could earn just went ready. I wasn't ready and all that judgment. I thought I was going to get. You know I always as kind of grown up being around heterosexual people all the time like I didn't until I went to college. I never I've never had a gay friend or it wasn't until as much as it is. Now I I remember seeing grey notre ones in G. Y. On shooters that's amazing. He's gay made on TV. I just it does make a difference. Doesn't it having those role models and those people out Amoco's well that's really amazing what you're doing as well because having things like this. I think if I'd had this growing up it would have helped me to just accept to lot quicker like I went through thing whereas maybe if I just set with another guy I would be straight because I really struggled with. Don't want to be a lesbian for was. Why was there a period than what you really were in the closet and didn't want to admit it to be especially when I came home from college like summer holidays and that kind of stuff unites along six weeks? When you can't feel you can be yourself. I mean I don't need to have a badge. Sign on Lesbian. But you know if I saw Angelina Jolie on telly I want to be out. Say she fit mom more. Hold him back a huge part of May and of my life and there was this guy. It fixed incomes calm the Gary H and he says a fancy adult. I kept knocking on the door. Boot Ronald Flowers. I even went on a date things. My mom was always lovely what you should go on a date with him. I'm not in the end. Don't thinking what am I doing? So this one I sixteen. It was about eight months off to my first lesbian. Kiss only eight months in the closet though nothing. I honestly I've had a really easy story. Compared to a lot of my friends it was just basically me except for myself to mom. Mom I gotTa tell you something. I'M LESBIAN. She went all right. Then what you want dinner. Brilliant Mommy Brooks absolute legend but honestly since then she said to me awful guy for if as I thought. I'll just go with it but should well. He's not a phase now obviously off the married to a woman. Did you have any questions? She didn't have a she up in conversation again. She just went with their. You know and you know if I was coming out. She's kind of all we going to like an algae bt new tonight and then the next door to me and that kind of
Alice Wu: The New Queer Rom-Com
"I grew up in North Carolina at no another gay person like in life in a new inside that I had attraction a man but I also firmly rationally just reasonably believe I would just never tell anybody for the rest of my life. I totally totally the same and be. I sometimes feel like that. Plays into what you just talked about that notion of being like you do feel alone because all around you. You're seeing signifier of people started to date when you already have that kind of charade setup you're ready used to having to be date boys and like yes. This is great it was like I don't know any difference like I got to date a girl on compare so somewhere in my head. I thought there's just probably something a little like not even aware the gay just somehow like everyone else is hearing one song the I do not here and I just have to dance as if I understand that song even though I don't know what the beat is and I don't know what the melodies is. I don't know you know like I'm just trying to like not stick out for sure. You mentioned coming out at the last year of college in your bio. It says that you realized you require at a gender studies class Zachariah enough feminist studies class. Actually I took a fantastic amazing professor stealth Friedman who's like one of the preeminent queer historians in the world and so at the time this is like an end of nineteen eighty nine racism very different era and I remembered her giving us the assignment like so there she is. She's like talking and she ended up coming out to us as a class. Which at the time. We're all like a little startled by. And then. She said she wanted us all to write a letter to our parents which we wouldn't send a coming out letter to our parents that we would turn in. I speak Mandarin of my parents night. Don't how reader right like. Why would never tell them something? This important English so the idea of writing a letter to them would have made no sense so I thought well I guess I could record this on a on a on a tape so what I did was I went out and borrow two tape recorders and extension cord Because I lived in a two room. Double where my roommate also spoken understood mandarin but now I was like paranoid. If is recording my room. She would hear me say this and think. I was gay so then I put one tape recorder. My Room started loudly playing Cat Stevens footsteps in the dark to tape. It was like literally playing that I listened to the wind the wind of my soul and then I talk like the other tape recorder and the extension cord into the walk in closet and shut that door and I proceed to record this thing. I'd say to my parents and there then. I had to write a thing in English. My professor to explain what this was. I'm like writing this thing very academically about like well. That was fascinating for one thing. I didn't know the word for GAY and Mandarin. And maybe if you don't know the word can you think what it is I'm going on and on and on finally I'm like well? I'm writing so much about this because I am gay so there I said it and that was the moment I came out to myself and I even remembered being like. This is ludicrous. I'm sitting in my closet coming out of the closet like that. This is such cheap symbolism that like if I put it in a movie people would back. That is way too heavy it. But that's that's what happened. I turned it in That'll happen and I know your mom originally had a hard time with that. How'd she come around your sexuality? By the time you didn't move back in with her in San Francisco Oh yes. She came around basically by the time. Saving face came out and remember this moment. So this right before due to shoot and she and I are drive Sunday. Where like in her minivan driving down highway one and I just I like the sun coming in. It was like very comfortable and then also I just kind of looked at her and I was like so mom. You know. You've read the script. Now you know us about is kind of like you do realize at the moment this movie comes out. All of your friends are going to know why I'm not married. And there's long pause and she was like yeah and then I was like what do you thick? And she thought about it for a really long time and then she said I'm not gonNA lie. It's GonNa be hard that this is what you want than this is what I want for you. I remembered in that moment. Just being like it doesn't like. I don't even need to make the movie anymore like this like that was the moment where I'm like. You know because honestly I also thought when that maybe came out I was like Oh God. I'M NOT GONNA be able to eat any Chinese restaurant again. It's kind of a disaster and the big surprise for all of us was much the Chinese community embrace that movie like the Chinese newspapers wrote about that movie for like weeks like we ended up winning the Golden Horse Audience Award and Taiwan. Just like the some ways it's like the Asian Oscars and And that was a huge surprise. Mom couldn't have known that at the point she you know accepted me. I mean I guess that's the thing. It's such a sacrifice to make a film it really is so I think you really want to think about what it is. You're hoping to achieve like what that sacrifices for I think you want your humanity inform formula art and vice versa. I know you're joking. The top the interview about like Hollywood always asks what what's next but we are at the end of the interview and I want to know. Do you know or have any idea like what is next. It's so funny because it's it's like I know. My agents are champing at the bit. Because there's all these things coming in. I actually just been like listen. I'm going to devote this month to to promoting this movie like this is like a child right then. I WANNA like unplugged disappear off the face of the Earth for like a few weeks in reality myself like I've three ideas of my own that I'd love to like one in particular. I want to start working on. If any of them comes to fruition in a way that I think is worth sharing the. I'm GONNA probably work like the Dickens to try and get that thing made if it doesn't I am reading things things and it's not like I'm not like know like I'm making twelve years a slave. I'm not a big important moviemaker. It can be something that just purely fun right. I think I just need to know. What personally is the reason why I think I'm the right person to make it. It sounds so grand when I say it this way but if you're going to put that much effort in anything then you WanNa feel like you've left something behind the world that you can point to and say okay. Maybe this help to these people right because otherwise I'm not sure it's worth it
Alice Wu: The New Queer Rom-Com
"I wanted to bring you this brand new conversation that we had with Alice Wu. Alice is the writer and director of the half of it. Now a net Flix and the movie really captures that special period and a clear persons in life. Where you have this attraction this desire you have not needling of clearness in your body but you very much do not yet have the worst language to describe it so you'll hear us talk about capturing on the page and then screen as well analysis first film saving face the now icon ick lesbian calm the just reminder our new season debuts on May twenty eighth you can listen to it on any and podcast platforms and if you do please help us. Spread the word on Social Media. Doing things like that really helps our show continue to grow so thank you so much for that all right without further ado here's Alison. I'm excited to talk because I find your career so exciting because it is proof of two things one that it's never too late to pull a one eighty and try something new. You quit your career at Microsoft to become a filmmaker and also your new film films coming out fifteen years after I and I think that's equally inspiring because there is this myth in Hollywood that you can't take a break that you can't pause momentum. Did you ever have worries about that? Yeah I mean I certainly got into that myth. I thought when I left industry ten years ago I thought I'd left for good. I never thought I'd be back. And I left specifically because my mom had some serious health issues that were acute side. Dropped everything to go to San Francisco to help her with that and it just took a lot longer than expected and I remember the conversation on my agent called me to be like. Are you coming back like what is happening and I just in that moment was like no? I'm not you know because I never went into filmmaking like I didn't get started to my late twenties and I had a different career and then I went to San Francisco. Take care of my mom which was home right like to be able to focus on my family As heading into my forties was felt right and so had I asked you at that time. Would you ever make another film? Your answer would have been like probably not. Yeah I think I in fact I got asked that all the time because there apparently is a very rabid group of saving face vans always very small. But they're very very determined. I didn't tell my second. Film got announced all these people came out of the woodwork. All over the world. I've been waiting for another film and I'm like this is true like I had no idea but a lot of my friends are also there either. Queer or Asians and so I got asked all the time where they'd be like this movie meant so much me winner he making another one and I'd be like probably never like I'd be like you know you never know but I think that time in my life that chapter might be over in at that time that you were a caretaker were you happy and content doing just about you know. It's a hard one to answer. Because in hindsight it's easier to say yes when it's happening. It's really deeply uncomfortable win. Those roles are reversed and granted. It's again I haven't lived at home sensitive sixteen so it wasn't like my mom had been taken care of me in any direct way but emotionally. She you know she was my mom you know. It was very stressful but it also is probably necessary because so why it seems great now is it was a few years of a lot of you know fighting and arguing and and those kinds of power struggles but I think those are the things you kind of have to go through to get to real intimacy and I think while my mom and I I honestly can't could love me more my mom and I don't have anyone more than I love my mom but I don't think we have the most intimate relationship you know because there are a lot of areas we just didn't know how to talk about and now we do when you say. Was it like rewarding. It was but it didn't feel like while it was happening. But in Hindsight. I can't imagine anything that would have been more rewarding in in my forties and I hope asking that is a judgmental but I just think like looking at your story of you know working at Microsoft and quitting her job to move New York City to give yourself five years to make a movie. There's so much motivation and I'm Bishen in that. That then surprises me that somebody could be like content putting all that aside a such an interesting parallels so smart. I think about it that way. I think the reason why I think those two things are linked though is I didn't move to New York to become a filmmaker. I moved to New York to try and make saving face which I didn't think would get made by the way like who thought that movie was going to get made right. Fifteen years ago I went. I wrote that movie for my mom. That's that's sorry that's really literally nuance distinction between the two that you didn't set out to be a filmmaker you set out to make one film. Yeah I wanted to make that bill. We got made but I also think sometimes you know it's similar to I'M GONNA go take care of my mom if you told me during that time especially in those years. You're fighting that like somebody you would have this wonderful intimate relationship. You're my your mom. I'd be like yeah that's never ever happening. That woman is impossible. I love her to death which is impossible right but you do it out of your love for that person similarly and trying to make the movie. I did it out of my deep love for that. I guess that script and just that desire to be like well take a one in a million chance but man if happens. That would be amazing. But if it doesn't I don't think I thought beyond Bat when it actually got me I I really was like you know like what is happening right now. This is not this is a so again. It was a fun but very disorienting. You know I become aware that I am the kind of filmmaker that isn't as much as I love directing I love you know. I think I need to love the projects like I need to love it. Like it's like almost a child for me otherwise you sacrifice a lot like this is not a field. That doesn't demand physical and emotional sacrifices from me right like there's no world where it's like. I'm off making my film and they have plenty of emotional energy for my best friends and my family like theirs. It's literally like a number of months. I'm pretty much checked out unless it's an emergency and not to sacrifice so I kind of have to ask myself. If I'm going to do that for something. Is it worth that sacrifice so you set out to make a film not be a filmmaker? When did you start to identify as a filmmaker has a really good question? Because I don't think it was maybe not until this movie because I always was like. I wonder if that movie was just a fluke. I was such a fluke. It was like a really lovely shoot and I really loved being on set and I think that was when I was like okay. I still have a lot to learn. I've only made two films but maybe I am a filmmaker. Maybe this is something that that I actually. You know. That is somewhere in my blood. Yeah and I think that the half of it walks this really compelling line in terms of queasiness that a main character. Someone who doesn't have it all figured out yet doesn't have the language describe or sexuality. I think what touched me was the respect that the movie had for her and where she's asked in terms of that process in your quickness and you as a filmmaker met her where she was at and. I haven't seen that many films yet. Oh thank you for saying that yes. That's exactly right because I think people sometimes I'll get asked like now is Elliott Elliott. This and what I ended up saying at least seventeen. I don't know what you're like at seventeen seventeen out to myself and I did come out to myself to my senior college and it was painful at once I did. I had crushes on girls probably since the fourth grade like I just deep crush on the same girl all three years of high school and I was not out to myself. How is that possible right? It's possible for exactly the reason you just said which is we. Don't have the language aways to explain our emotions and when it comes to something as scary as potentially ones you know whether we are clearness or even just your sexual identity at all at seventeen. I think just the notion of sex can be a bit terrifying because it's so confusing. Yeah and not having all the answers as very real for that age It's real for any age actually but it just interesting stage of the coming out process to depit. Did you originally set out wanting to explore that when you were writing it. Yes so so. It's it's interesting because I didn't actually a initially and I think this often forms like the kind of things I'm just going to write for myself to direct I realize now that it usually comes from some sort of emotional question that I may have been wrestling with in my life like saving face while the plot is nothing to do what happened to me and my mom. That very much was about you know. Is it possible to have both romantic love and your family together? No not then take way right and now something has grappling with and I think the half of it started as me really grappling with for a whole bunch of reasons but grappling with this notion of what Love was and how you know like as a society we really exalts romantic love right and I think growing up. I wasn't allowed to watch TV. But I was watch classic movies and I was allowed to talk to Chinese soap operas because we weren't allowed to watch anything violent pretty much meant like romantic dramas romantic comedies. So I totally bought into this idea. That like the whole point of those movies at the end these two people hopefully end up together right and once they do. It's like the happy ending like right. Like the whole goal is to find your perfect other half and I think sort of a getting older and realising like The to kind of weird now like in my twenties that made total sense but once I got past that I started realizing it will even if you do find someone who like I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. It doesn't really seem like and then your life just ends in this wonderful crescendo right. It seems like and then life goes on and all these other things come up and thinking about that and realizing that I naturally focused so much on like my romantic partner. But they're all these other relationships in my life. That are at least as important in if I think about like the breakup I've had I've had yes. I've had a couple of really difficult romantic breakup but I wouldn't necessarily say that are worse than some of the platonic breakups. I've had like the breakup that can happen in apparent in a trial right like when a one can't accept the other for some reason. That heartbreak is devastating. The heartbreaks that happened with your closest friends where and those are often incredibly quiet. They're not like we had a fight. We don't talk. They're more like someone move. Someone gets a relationship and then somehow you feel less connected in the less connected and then one day. You're like you miss that intimacy right like there's and because with romantic relationships put a label on it when that relationship and you have to have a conversation but for friends you can just fade
"I'm Eric. Marcus out of the closet and into your podcast feeds once again speaking to you from my guest room closet revisiting the making gay history archive as a coping mechanism in the Cova crisis. I hope these trips to the archive. Help you a little. They helped me a lot here on West Twentieth Street. In New York City. Things have been slowly opening up the Jihad place on the corner. The French pastry shop across the street and soon our favorite restaurant down the block but normal not even close noisy traffic and streams of chattering tourists on the way to the high line park have been replaced by chattering. Birds Looking for mates or just hanging out the city that never sleeps is a surprisingly sleepy place to live at least in my neighborhood where many people have fled to second homes or other parts of the country so this is the Tenth Week that my partner. Barney and I have been sheltering in place here in the US at least nine hundred thousand or dead more than a million and a half infected along with a cold statistics. There's been much discussion about how this pandemic is the great equalizer that no matter who you or the size of your bank account. You're not protected from this virus. It's true that viruses don't discriminate but our society does and this virus has cast in stark terms how systemic inequality the termines. How likely you are to get sick and if you get sick how likely you are to die and that brings me to Perry Watkins. Another of the many people I interviewed who is just trying to live his life when fate and in Perry's case racism cast him in a very different role one that could easily have landed him. Six feet under Perry Watkins was Nineteen Year Old American college student living in Germany and studying dance when his draft number was called. It was thousand nine sixty eight. The war in Vietnam was at its peak. But Harry figure that after a quick trip to the army's induction center in Tacoma Washington he'd be back in Europe doing what he loved. He thought he had nothing to worry about. Because the military didn't want homosexuals and Perry made no secret of the fact he was gay in life or on the army's intake form that he had to fill out turns out he plenty to worry about. So here's the scene. It was mid November nineteen eighty nine and I was sitting in Perez semi dark living room in Tacoma Washington. It was too cold to take my coat off. Perry was bundled up to and explained that he couldn't afford to heat. The House. Perry was a handsome man with close cropped. Hair a beard and abroad smile. His every gesture offered a glimpse into his past as both dancer and a drag performer. I Clinton microphone to Perry's jacket and press record interview with Perry Watkins Sunday. November nineteenth nineteen thousand nine five thirty PM at the home of Perry Watkins in Tacoma Washington. Interviewer is Eric. Marcus tape one side one. I want to go back in history. How's that we're working our way back? Honey asks granted good very this is this is. This is kind of interview. I love talking to a lot of people the most torture to me is. When I ask a question you know. You don't think I'm going to get those kinds of answers okay Did you know you wanted to work in the military? I didn't want to check the box because I wanted to go in the military. You didn't weren't you know that's why I checked the box? If I wasn't planning to go into the most I check the box. Yes and I was drafted anyway. You check the box. That said homosexuality. Would you like to see a copy of the former leave you? I think you checked with the sexual. Yes you were drafted. Yes would you you draft nineteen sixty eight Vietnam War. Good thinking I would school yes. I'm not that Oh so we shopped. Yes what's absolutely? How did someone tell me the chronology of this you you you wit? You've got your shit. There's this thing to look everybody's as what you didn't realize that most people don't realize I was not trying to go into the military. That's why I told them I was. That's why I find it absolutely ludicrous. That the army is in court saying we don't want this man. Well why the Hell did you take me right so you you know? Excuse me and why am I the one that is being accused of being at fault? It is amazing but no I check the block yes. They sent me into a psychiatrist. Who said to me baited me? It was funny and I knew what he was doing. He came in and he says why. Did you check the blocks and I went because you asked me to fill the format honestly well. Did you object to going in the military? No I didn't want to go in the military whom did right but I certainly had no objection to serving my country. You used to be owns extremely so who I really check. The box was because I thought if I go into the military. I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm good. I know myself well enough to know that so when I get thrown out mom will be angry if I lie. That was why I checked the box. When I put out my mom will be more angry with me for lying that. Why didn't I just tell the Damn truth to begin with so then he said well what you like to do. I said well the same thing you know anyone who was gay likes to do Orlando Sex. Whatever no I mean specifically put this psychiatrist I looked him and said you mean to tell me your license okay. Because you don't what a homosexual does I? He got angry with me. I WanNa know what you like to do. So he made me tell him that I liked and get fucked in the ASS specifically then he turns around and says. Do you ever date women now. Stop and think about that. Do you think this is a man who's just made me say I like to Suck Dick. You're not gonNA ask me. Do I ever sleep with women. Do I ever have sexual intercourse limited over Fuck Women? You know you're going say. Do you ever date women. Well now. What clean do you know who doesn't who said yes? His finding was that I was homosexual but qualified for military service now according to the regulation and this is what I find it amusing because the army's always shooting about our regulations says homosexual can't be in the military you're right you're regulation required. That man make a determination that if I was suitable for military service that I was lying that I am not homosexual. The only way you can put someone in the military who check that box. Yes Sadr isn't Adrian. I'm draft walk into the draft board DOT com. Oh walked up. The steps and three guys looked up that I'd gone high school with from the time that I was in junior high school. I told people that was good. Why I had this relationship with the young man that told someone in my mechanical drawing class and I walked in and he told them
A Harrowing Colonoscopy
"You had your first homicide pins extra last week which I'm going to say was a glittering affair. Yes what you time you did. Proud is what I would say and make see the one listeners. Famous aprons are in so much agreement with the inbox has been overloaded with praise for you. Tell me darling and well the first one. I'm going to read it email. I'm GonNa read is from Jamie. He says his been touched by your colonoscopy story. So no wait till you hear about this so here we go from Jamie. Hi Folks Loving the podcast folks and the Bantu you have between you. I laughed at the colonoscopy stories. I remember my inexperienced back in my early twenty s like most young gay men. I was terrified of what was looking up there. I can trace. The day of the procedure arrived quickly after an exhausting day. Previous drinking four liters of toxic soap water. I didn't know how to do that. That seems weird. Maybe that was just his. I normally love sedation as well. But this day I drove to the hospital not realizing I owed requi- one and the nurse asking me who was collecting me after I. The nurse asked if anyone was clean after mid sedation. I wake up and also look up seeing my name on the TV. And the and of the doctor massaging my belly together camera to go round the Kink in my colon I subsequently asked where they recording it for me memorabilia. It's like when you get off a ride thought park which is a picture of you. GonNa Screen you. Can you can pay twenty quid to keep it. S post-recovery lamb bed dreaming of the Cavalry Dinner. I promised myself and thinking we will get to the hospital without someone collecting me. I'd go for soup after colonoscopy. Wouldn't you know two full for Hood Italy easier so that I can maybe smooth jam I jumped? I jumped up off wolfing. My tea and toast was dressed in waiting to navigate past the nurses station but I got caught my code. He's jailbreak matron came around the corner asking where I was going quickly replied looking down. The corridor pasta to random man shouted coo mark then shuffling by the desk in towards the man saying this random person was my brother. The nurse I kept going never looks back so he escaped under anaesthetic with a stranger. He had just pretended he needed a stranger and then used him to get past the Matrix. Next up was the crossing of the Joe Carry Trae. He's still going through the Capri here. Of course the joke carries driving in my head. He's on the run but you're right. You're right. He's probably driving a Jew carriageway to Knicks Crossing of cash. Way To get food in a local pub which I would hope to sober me up enough to drive post anesthetic to drive. Oh my well. Needless to say I am alive today. He says well. I think we should say we did not. We are laughing at this story but we absolutely do not command this gentleman for being so close with his hail. Colonoscopy sources of anecdotes for podcasts own colonoscopy is for life not for Christmas I feel a lot feels appropriate here Jamie says I would love to leave review but alas I do not use apple well okay. What do t shirt for you? Then I'd have to say I didn't wasn't much praised for me in that it was all about.
Carmen Maria Machado's Queer Horror Stories
"So. We are super excited to talk to author Harmon. Maria Machado when we first admitted Carmen on the show we wanted to talk about her memoir. That came out a couple months ago in the drain house. The bug is about her experience in an abusive relationship and plays with John Rouse like fantasy and horror. It is such an amazing book. And we're still going to chat with her about it but right before we were scheduled to interview her. The pandemic took hold and we were all told to social distance and this whole experience with the corona virus pandemic really reminded us up two stories and comments. First Book. A book of short stories called her body and other parties. These two stories are literally about pandemics and they are eerily similar to. What's happening today so we had to ask her about them. Okay so Carmen. Your first book came out in twenty seventeen. It's called her body and other parties in in it they're not one but two stories about pandemics. One is called Real. Women have bodies and the other's called inventory so my first question for you is. Did you know that this was going to happen? You know part of what you're good at. If you're a good writer as you pay attention and I feel like when stuff like this happens like obviously. I didn't know it was going to happen. But I think just generally being like an observer of human behavior an observer of society observer of just sort of. What's going on in sort of drawing from that and the idea of like what happens if you're a person who like you know sort of runs on like human contact like so many people immense suddenly. You're not able to have that contact. I mean I've done a lot of reading in the band played on the AIDS crisis in like. I think I was thinking about that when I was reading inventory. So that story inventory. It's about a mysterious pandemic that sweeping the world and and killing people and the story is sort of written like a journal. Like you get these brief entries written by the main character and what she's doing is recounting every sexual partner. She's ever had And what we found really interesting. Is that by telling each of these stories chronologically you get these little details about what's going on with the pandemic around her. I'm wondering how did you come up with that form and format for the stories? I wrote the story at a workshop that I went to end. It was a few weeks in an early on in the workshop. Another student had workshop to story which was can handle sexual content and was also very sexist and during the critique I sort of commented on the sexism of the story and later he sort of made a comment about how obviously I hated the story because I was prudish or that I didn't like sex in fiction. Challenge accepted exactly so then. I like you know I'm GonNa read a story. That's entirely sex scenes like I'M GONNA use the sexiness a unit of measurement for for this next story and so I sat down and I began thinking about. How would you serve? Release a little dribbles of information were like know. The reader is sort of getting sick. Little pieces of A story that's like much bigger League alongside the big stuff. There's always the small stuff you're always doing things like having sex while something really bad happens in the world around you look. It's always true Guinea. You're always making noodles while somebody's being blown apart in another country. Internet me or in your country like that tension always exists. You're living your life in the small ways always alongside huge huge large scale tragedy war and death and loss so the stories were shifts focused between what's happening in the background but like this young woman's sort of like sexual journey in sexual weakening the lens through which the The sorts of materials being examined and eventually collides in this thematic way. Because it's about like touching human contact and there was like a part where she sleeps with this like former CDC employee whose like if people would just stay apart we would not have this virus a hand right right. People won't do it and so he continues Sort of like you know the world is falling apart and yet like your junk is still going to be your junk like. You're still dealing with being a person exactly that your justice. So you're chunk no instrument I mean inventory and also like my other pandemic story For women have bodies like I feel like both sort of address. Those like it's like what does it mean to like? Have A job. All that's going on or to Lake beat nursing a crush on somebody or certain date. Someone WORD WHATEVER
Paul Burston: So Many Men, So Little Time
"It was nineteen eighty-eight so I would have been twenty two. I think I finished university and I devoted myself base being a full-time seen queen and I was having a lot of fun of fun. There wasn't really low drugs around that I was not that I was aware of anyway. People get drunk on beer or steal beer. Sometimes I could not that pint of that so it wasn't that kind of like glass frontier. We're happy to be seen. It was all quite behind doc windows. And it was like ultra ultraviolet lights everywhere because everyone's dandruff. On their showed there's video. Scrimmage was a novelty a video screen and a bar and you can pay money to choose videos. We should be done for videos in those days to watch pope whenever you want it to always have. Don't leave me this way by Bouncy. Cb there was always on when whenever into Harpoon Louie's that was on and there was. I WANNA dance with somebody by Whitney. Houston they take me back to those year to that place there were different of tribes within that as well so that look you had that kind of Franken Hollywood's look should. I was pretty those Saturday night at half and that was I was the only night at Heaven which I actually came out by going to heaven so I came. I didn't tell anybody I just went to have on my own and stood outside and I knew I knew there was GEICO. Having everyone knew that and I've seen something in time out magazine I think it was And I went to long understood outside. I spiked up. Hair like friendly McCullough from Akron. The bunny man. I had plucked eyebrows and makeup. I think two hearings in each year on knows that as well and I stood side for about two hours. Watching these men queuing up. None of looked tore like me. They all looked like village people and number shirts and moustaches and I couldn't. I just couldn't go in so I said as a chain smoking I went back to Waterloo train back to Richmond and university again but I went back the next Saturday and the next Saturday and then invention third week I actually picked up the courage to go in getting a little bit closer and I went down those hallowed stairs and I remember that the sense of the smell which I didn't mechanism bustos was poppers. Didn't what he wants to start old socks and you walk into this room and the first thing I heard was this guy sort of swished by saying so many men so little time extra popular tune if the time and I just turned and ran out again because it terrified me and then the funding we went back and I stood literally lately with my back against the wall. Didn't talk to anybody. Stood up against the wall looking people as nineteen of so terrified and then eventually someone talked to me and then not wanting another with that particular. One just generally without something with that particular. Someone broke my heart though. Of course best bastard but to do it come out. It wasn't the best way probably be go to pick new. Only be terrified. Puts ME IN MIND TO SWIM? You start off just you in the water. Then you float. He's on and yes and above our and then you start moving around and I. I've always tend to jump into things too much so I have my local Gay Mitchell. After goes the biggest gates and in the whole world. The time probably to do it. Yeah just throw from seven to that. I left. I'd many many many great times than many great times then over the subsequent years and there so many men so little time. Well they were yes definitely in both senses because we didn't realize then just many men. We're going to have so little time unusual. Change very very quickly became quite prophetic. Really I was making up for lost time. I had fun. I made lots of new friends. Even if you didn't the names at least at least we were together. I'm quite choosy like that. Yeah I actually had sex with somebody wants waiting for night bus into Vulgar Square. Actually in the night in the queue of the night in the kids. Yeah Yeah Yeah by. The National Gallery was no one else in the queue tempted to join in offer offer. Some kind of the neighbors and developed square knows. Days was a real hotbed activity. Whatever would come from heaven or Soho in the middle of the week and they just be. So many gay guys queuing the but Vulgar Square. Honestly say people from that period for similar stories of just like getting on the different night because you fancied some but in finding you in Eastland and you live in Richmond. Just there was. There was a hottie on the and hoping that they'd give you some wet they usually did of charity for me. Part of the fun of those of that period of my life was that you'd go out and you'd meet people and you would normally meet meet a cross section of people. I have friends all different ages. Different backgrounds and sexualities and genders much more fragmented later and I think that the sex it can victim of own success in a way. Because there wasn't there wasn't the connections after AIDS happens because that was a huge thing in my life or knows about twenty five twenty six most of my gay male friends at that point. Were some years old me because I was I I wanted to learn. I wanted to own it someone to be my older brother and teach me and show me the ropes and some and they were the ones that died so I lost all of them pretty much and then I became an aids activist and got me involved in that and the for all of the for all the things that I would not change for anything but a lot of things about the eighty S. I would never want to have back. But there was a sense of community. People did pull together and they did rally and there were. There was communication between different generations. Different tribes within within our communities. And now it is. That's true anymore. I think that there was a break in the chain because there was generation that was kind of lost to HIV AIDS. There was the generation that we're impacted by it like my generation who went to flow of grief innovation space sandwiches very traumatic. And I'm probably not really over yet still in there some degree and then it becomes a very difficult subject to talk about so you don't talk about it very often and then the younger kids come in. And they've got half of this happens. They know the history half the time when you talk to. You have no idea what was going on ten fifteen years before they were. Because why would you know? I didn't WANNA die. Young either. Must be about twenty two when I first heard about it my boyfriend at the time. Read something in one of gay papers and said we have to stop using condoms and I was like. Whoa and then I'd heard that someone I was at college with who was a mature student and he disappeared for a long period. He didn't come back after this term. I then learned on the grapevine that he was gay. Had THIS BOYFRIEND WHO AMERICAN. They basically both contracted dictionary and he died really community rapidly. I wasn't really. I didn't know he might just name to say hi to billy and he was the first person that was. I that I knew of and then the guy was living in the in the tower block with who I was very close to and it was the real mentor of mine. I moved and I went to see him one night and He was he was all something ought to buy it. The whole evening was very strange and strained and I remember asking him about how he say. Seeing somebody recently this new boyfriend and I saw how things go with a boyfriend and he said Oh. What's been difficult because he he's he's a he's upset because I don't I don't have sex now that I majorly positive. And that was how that was how he told me. And I just put the spray face on and just get through this conversation. I was absolutely shocked. Devastated because at that in that back. They're not meant to death. Sentence there was there was no treatment and I remember sitting to this dinner feeding. Obser- your phone and then getting home on the train and just crying. The whole journey home. He became really really quickly and then he was. He won't one of his dying wishes as you wanted to go to. Amsterdam you know Vietnam and his friends. Most of them were straight women elected person to take him and I went. I took him to them on this trip and I spent the whole time. What thinking he was going to die on me. And how am I going to manage to get him what I do? I was twenty four years of age. Twenty five this. It was horrendous. It was very frightening when he was hospitalized to visit him and habit. Bobi helping with things. I remember one time picking up urine bottle onto the bed and tipping acid typically myself and being paranoid even though I knew deep down that this was not something that was good pose. Any risk to me. We didn't really know people didn't really know no. There wasn't much information. And this is before lady. Diana went into the AIDS. Ward this before this sort of stuff happened it was it was still appeared it was not really spoken about if it was spoken about hushed voices and it was very frightening time and he was a very very good community minded person he he was involved in the running of the building and everyone knew who he was he would chair meetings and whatever and then after he got. L. Someone Daubed on his front door house of AIDS on his front door and then he died and I was really in the state about it and reading the papers. There was a meeting happening at the London. Lesbian Gay Entering Cow Cross Street and Farrington. Which is not no longer there but it was very popular but place back then and there was a meeting happening and his act up and I I knew I act up was happening in America. Knew what actor boss I went to this meeting. I just threw myself into it and it took up my life completely for like three years and it was way of channelling the grief because in an over over those three years it was just one funeral after another. He was just he got to the point. Where you'd actually dread answering the phone. And I used to a Filofax that was an effects back in the eighty s. My member year just taking all the names out taking people out because people are just dying all the time even my family. I mean little bits but they just did not understand why this was any different to my grandfather dying because that's expected because he's fucking eighteen easily and he smokes these ill and mentioned me dying and late. Twenties and early Thirties. It's it's completely mad. It was it was like there was a war going on but only we knew about it was the why was completely oblivious and yet within our world which is very very contains. Gay London world. There was a war going on and people were dying all around us and we were expected to carry on as normal. What you have the you do that.
Revisiting the Archive: Joyce Hunter
"So here's the seem. Joyce greeted me at her apartment door in sunnyside queens with a smile at the time. Joyce was just shy of fifty and had close cropped curly. Dark hair and wore large wire rim glasses. She was dressed in dark slacks and a button down shirt. She led me into bright living room. We took our seats and I attached microphone to her collar. Press Record interview with Joyce Hunter of the Hedrick Martin Institute on December Ninth Friday. Nineteen eighty eight locations. Sunnyside queens interviewer is Eric. Marcus tape one side one house. One in Staten Island nineteen thirty nine. I was born in a home for unwed mothers. My mother and father were not married. My mother was in what the Docs Ju plant. And My mother by the way was sixteen sixteen successors Kinda young and My mother got ill with Hepatitis. And then we were taken away when my mother was in the hospital. Today they call them group homes in those days. They called the more jobs though. Your parents were in dead from the time that I was five until I was fourteen. I was in. Did you have any sense during those years that you were somehow different? Different different definitely different. Especially when I was around ten I knew but you know you don't know what it is and it was like number one. They used to take us into movies every Saturday and that was crazy. Only about the women was only thing that I would focus on. You know what it is. You recognize difference before you recognize Sameness and I didn't feel the same as everybody else. So fourteen. You left the orphanage. I went to my mother and father in the Bronx new projects growing up in the Bronx on the streets of the Bronx. Is You hear everything? And then you get your first word Faggot and Queer. It scared the. Helen thought that somebody was going to come after me. I don't think that anybody knew although the way I you know I don't look much different is kind of like quote Unquote Bucci Looking. But I don't think they made the connection because I was very quiet and I tend not to at that time. Speak a lot believe it or not and then I went to a period grabbing. Talk A lot. They will went to therapy Tried to commit suicide at Seventeen. I was in a in a situation. That was pretty violent Very Abusive Yeah. And so that was a factor not being able to. I missed the kids from the home. You know they were eight years you know and I didn't like being very was so. The homosexuality was a factor. Family situation was a factor and I just thought it would be easier to be dead into live. My mother was like banging on the door. I stopped and she took me to the hospital and I never went back home since that was the last time. I was now when you were seventeen years old. Yeah I spend my eighteenth birthday state hospital so you so you saw psychiatrists there though. Once he served time. They're really I swear to God. That's how it was to me. I was away from a year. I guess when I came out I started seeing a therapist and I didn't WanNa be gay and I didn't want everybody to hate me. I wanted it to go away and some therapists said well. If you get married it it'll go away and I I well I wanted to believe it so I didn't at eighteen. I went and got married to a really nice guy. Did it go away no. I was married one year and then I met. I met this woman my first adult over while I was married. I knew it was never going away and I fell in love with a woman and I kept it a secret. I mean I was so I had never experienced any kind of feeling like that ever. You know not with no guy but it took me thirteen years to leave. The marriage and had two children did you. You must have felt trapped terribly trapped when I decided to come out. It was either killing myself or coming out but I had the kids and the kids kept me from doing such a thing and So I came out and I was a much better parent for it. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids today. Did you go to any of the early? Gay Pride Marches. I didn't go to the first one I was. Not there. Were sixty seventy No didn't go in seventy one seventy two. Tell me a little bit about that. First March I was kind of Excited almost arrogant gay rights. Now you know and excuse me for you if you like. It was like one of the things that the movement did for me. It gave me a vehicle to express my anger what we are about everything that. I had been denied my life that I had no adolescence. My childhood was Was Rob I always say that when I come back in the next life I wanNA come out to and I want to be able to enjoy being who I am. Let me just tell you how I got involved in first place because I think that might help a little like former lover took me down to the firehouse. And this was nineteen seventy one. I remember walking in and it was. It was a women's dance and I was like really overwhelmed. I'll never forget that moment and it was exciting and to see so many gay people on the street because people coming out in street never never saw anything like that when I was growing up. I didn't think any gay people at all and I just thought I was this this odd entity you know and it was like you know a wow. That's all I could say. Oh well it's just like you showed home. I was for me. It was like coming home. This is it this is this is this is who I
Homo Sapiens Q&A
"To this is from a woman Jay will us? What do my fiance and I do about people telling us the right way to make a family. Tell him to fuck off. Yeah I mean just imagine that people getting up in their stuff about should they adopt? Should they do surrogacy should they? I think they should listen. But when it comes to the point when this be annoyed she obviously is tell them it's their business and a. I mean what the hell. Where do people get off topic too? Yeah I couldn't agree more. I think that's just dreadful. Do you know do you not my dad said to me when I said my dad got arrested. So lovely man. Lovely man said I said to Moses going to have children with my husband William and he went. What like Elton John? An ice lead. No just like people all right we. Should we do one more? Do One more these next questions does your great thanks so much. That wasn't really a question. Okay here's another question from s Who is a woman? She says that she she feels weird to tell people that. She doesn't conform to the Normative society thoughts is really interesting this because so when at Christmas I was. I seem to be the elected educated to my wider family. On what gender politics is. Let's say queer politics you know. People are going to be two darling white. They want to be called they. What what is this all about? It's all opening up right now. And Sam Smith who has been on this book us and we adore. I love about them is. They have said that they're going to be Miss Gender for the rest of their life. And that's okay and I thought that was quite sweet. That's nice. They said the on an interview. Eight and also this fluidity of all I think is and also what is plan sexual or these severe. There's a lot I think the thing is. It's a lot for people to deal with. Especially if you're not coming into contact with people who are out of those things so I might thing is don't feel weird about it just present. How you you know. I think any in any situation. It's okay to ask to be thought of to described. And if that's how you want then people should respect that they respect that most of their attitudes of ood can't keep up like you. I know people who've things what I'm not allowed to Oriental. No I can't keep up is Asian. Know terrible things that but that is a very common sort of attitude. These things change so quickly and we come up. The thing was thing is they do change quickly. Sometimes you just have to ask and if someone asks you to refer to them or think of them in a certain way then. That's just respectful to do that yet. And if you are feeling you want to define how you are referred to. I always feel like Kinda need to just double roughly double the amount of time. You think it's going to take to get that across to people you know you do have to invest time and explaining because it is. It's a journey for them as well Jennifer them and it is an is confusing and people on the whole are actually very willing to be respectful just often. They make strange mistakes when they fill on the back foot and they didn't what say. Yeah you know to me so I think it's like practice test. It's a test and if you explain it to someone in very very basic way and still. They're not respecting you. Then that's a problem often. I think people will be but does I think what s is asking about. Just hard feeling that she doesn't she's not kind of conforming to hiring. That feels her just kind of going out into the world and saying hey you know what I don't I don't feel particularly like you and that must I mean I guess it depends on the circumstances you find yourself in. I I think we are in the in the show Lucky in that those sorts of things are usually much more easy for us. What it's like if you're in a bank or something and you want to see you don't feel no so I think the thing is keeping yourself in a closet or in a ghetto is only going to make you feel
Patrick's Coming Out Story
"Come out to hear from Patrick who's now a successful Mike artist but he got relentlessly bullied for being gay or growing up in Northern Ireland. I identify as male And I I have an interesting journey with my gender I think because I started doing drag or Soy's drag when I was about fifteen stain kind of progressed. I moved to Manchester when I was eighteen on. I pretty much was wearing full. Face to makeup wakes clothes everything every single day. I think I am used to chester. Oh God I can do this. I'm free to to wear as much as I want. And where did you come from that? You can wear what you want. I grew up in Northern Ireland so I could and I did wanted by think I was always trying to be little bit. Respectful of my parents particularly my mom because she was a little bit uncomfortable at the time about me wearing makeup and bought me wearing weeks and and looking of the Yes. I moved to Manchester and it all sort of exploded e kind of all sort of mixed together. It wasn't really drag. I've never really done to the performances. I tried failed dressing. Dressing up was dressing up and still is for me now and I kind of stopped doing it for a very long time as my career is make posits kicked off. I didn't really have any time. I think there's a good three or four years where I didn't put any makeup on at all but now I'm at a point where I wouldn't even know what it's called I. I'm a man who is gay who likes to wear addresses woman. Sometimes but I don't see myself as a drag queen but juicy self is somewhere on the sort of gender fluid spectrum may be I guess so by just don't feel like home fits with me if you turn because everyone likes putting terms things. These days I would say gender fluid would be appropriate up you would prefer gender. Fluid suspended male. I don't really care. That's the thing that when people these conversations like I think about a lot but I don't ever think about all. This is the term that identify with the most. I'm just I'm just. I'm Patrick and some does I like to lady some days. I looked like a man. Will you go out shopping or go out and make you might just as woman? No I'm on? I think that's probably why the the line is in a sense. I'm why wouldn't see myself as being gender fluid for me? Gender fluidity is someone who I probably would have been more like eight nine years ago when I would go out house with makeup on and with silly outfits on in fact my what am I. University lecturer actually brought me into her office. University and asked me should be cool. You anything different remain is that do we give you a different name? Which would like different pronoun or anything? I thought no and I thought what she questions to ask my. I'm just wearing these clothes. I didn't understand why. Why did he was different? But looking back then I was definitely much more gender fluid whereas these days it's more just address up that's quite progressive really to serve. She was a lovely woman. What's your pronouns? So it's the right way about. Isn't it to actually ask the pers- yeah definitely definitely? I really appreciate. That looking back was a lovely thing of Helen. Do well done Helen so looking back. Can you remember the first time that you may be questioned your sexuality then to know why I think I always questioned bisexuality? Once I knew what sexuality was I knew I didn't fit into the normal. I remember having imaginary friends as really young boy and I always wanted them to be boys. I always wanted to be called Tom. Which is really weird because if my flatmate listen to this my flatmates called so I don't want him to think I have a thing for the boy called Tom. I always want to hug them. I always wanted them to be close. I remember it being because they were boys. We have family video of me when I was a kid. Really really young and our next door neighbor. Child I'm running around child's Charles like calling out for him because I was probably obsessed with and then I think I grew up and I realized what sexuality was. It was like. This is always something that I've thought I've always been attracted to boys and also the messages we getting about people that were male light boys of your school in. Belfast was yes I went to school. It's an all boys grammar. School in Belfast. Very up at south one of these kind of really wheaties for school. Everything around may was telling me that everything that I was into everything I was interested was wrong messages. Where you're hearing. I think proved very young age. I was always some other was like the victim of bullying in a sense. A growing up in Northern Ireland with a British accent With Army family and Camp. So you you were bullied for being English Bison Primary School it was always English and getting a degree because of my accents and then when I went to secondary school turned into A. You're you're gay. Boy Gameboy busted. Dumbo buster bums. The walls was always a catchphrase. That was said when people woods when I would walk down there the corridor. And how old were you I mean throughout secondary school. So from twelve onwards funny because I came out and primary school do yes. It is well. This is an early one. I asked boy to be my boyfriend in Palm. He's GonNa last year of Primary School. I come into how all that would have. Been eleven eleven. The education system is a little bit different Nolan. I think he leave a year or something later. I can't really remember that I recalled. I was very good friends with him and I found him. I won't spend my boyfriend so I asked him. I remember what he said. I gotcha I gave them a note. I remember I remember sort of slipping him tonight. What he boyfriend but I recall what happened after that however I do recall giving him a phone call after school to talk to him because we would every night and his mom picks up the phone and I said speech Cowan please. Is this Patrick. So yes said well. I've heard about this. Fancying thing the what Jamaican and she said. I need to stop disgusting for how this is coming from light. This boy's mum and this is probably one of the youngest coming has gazed. I've heard you were ten or eleven. You try to get a boyfriend boyfriend then. The mother intervene jess and that was kind of that was that because I I remember being on the phone. Remember sitting on my mom's bad being on the phone shutting down the phone. That may be thinking. Oh this is wrong because I didn't really think anything wrong. I guess at the time apartments quite just wants to boyfriend but he obviously thought something wrong with it because he went straight out his mother. I so God what happened with the friendship. I mean that was the end of primary school more or less. Oh I can't quite recall whether or not we stayed friends. We probably did stay friends but when I went to different school you know secondary school so I didn't speak to him again and then there was one boy from my primary school went to grammar school with mate and I remember saying. Don't tell anyone like about the stuff that was kind of kept hush hush and then he's not telling people but don't but not until like our second year of secondary school and then everything's coming out and then I saw his playing to little bit. Once I came to terms with my sexuality and I was afraid of. I think I've sort of jumped straight into it in the sense that I had a boyfriend. I think had my first boyfriend when I was fourteen. Thirteen fourteen and he lived around the corner from my house. So we get the school bus with each other so you did you ever have any girlfriends it right into the boys in primary school. I have so many girlfriends yoga. Yeah in fact. I really love laser device. Full circle moment recently. That my my my main girlfriend primary school I have makeup for recently mostly. Nice but they would just like playing Casey chases and primary school and yeah. It's a secondary school and I had my first boyfriend when I was about fourteen and the dramas about cost because I actually joined the cadet force and my my secondary school And he was one of the one of the sergeants and he was older he must have been bus eighteen when I was about fourteen to. Everybody obviously found out about what was that reaction. Then if they like previously recalling Ubembe boy and abusing you because you are and then they found that you actually had a boyfriend in school and the school in the catas- when I think about those that are times I think buckle news stories. You know. It wasn't all that bad. I got grief everybody. Everybody has something to say. I was ostracized from everybody apart from my very very close knit friends. But I didn't ever quite lucky in a sense I never have enough. I didn't get that much abuse a on me although to be ostracized by the majority of your school colleagues. It's got to be very alienating. Very lonely place to be as well. I think actually is probably the most difficult people some of the teachers to accept or not so. I remember one of my house shooter. Whoever he was obviously being be is to shave my eyebrows off and draw them on again. Of course course I getting a lot of people about and he looks at you. You're not really helping yourself are you. And that was his way of dealing with them. Just GonNa Suck my teeth now just very much that I think about. There's so many stories from my school The head of pastoral care at my school he told my best friend. My best friend was crazy like a piece of artwork and included a picture of the two of us in makeup and to be pulled birth bus into into the school officer. Talk about the fact that we harangue makeup in this picture and he's holding my friend Anton. The Envy's children turned out to be. He gave that he would assign them not the head of Pastoral Care School. Well he's in the wrong job. I know awful. Man Said no support tool then from anyone in terms of authority figures. Yeah but I think very much. My my school wasn't a great place to be gay and with what was this. The nineties noughties The northeast expansively. Brezler not a Northern Ireland so back in in the way I mean. They've only just got marriage. Equality abortion right. Yeah exactly Hallelujah. Thank God but they're so backward. I think of my Johnny was coming out with a little bit easier than of my friends because my family are English. Not to say the Ron. Lots of very supportive very open Irish people because of course there are but I guess my family went as religious especially my dad and I didn't really have thought that traumatic past of of living in Northern Ireland. So what stage did you come out to your parents. Bearing in mind the trying to get boyfriend at the age of ten in progress and then got one by fourteen. I'm guessing he came out quite early to them you well. I came out to my Mama earlier. My Dad moved away to Luxembourg when I was about twelve. I think he moved off work. So this basically he. He wasn't really on the on the scene so I think I was about sixteen came onto him by counts. My Mum probably about twelve thirteen and it was a conversation again. Sat on the same bad. I phoned Calgary from. I couldn't say the words I remember trying to say. I think I'm gay and not being able to say gay and saying I I tell you but I caught sight yet and Saying oh I don't know and then going through listen different questions than eventually. We got to that. She's like Oh you gay. Yes yes let's sets and okay right. I think you're a bit young. So maybe we'll have this conversation when you're older okay. So then every now and then it was a diesel thinking guy and that was. That was pretty much for my mom. I mean my mom was always quite supportive. It's my my older sister is guy I was. My sister had the real hard time coming out so I could. So she came out. I know she came out later. I came up so see is five years older than me. Okay I think she was about nineteen twenty when she came out and it was traumatic. My mom would always say my gay people. I might like gay man. I just can't stand spins. And that was her catchphrase and she's very very much the complete opposite of that now. My sister's marriage has a little boy. My mom loves my sister. I think that's just Hearn prejudice her and
"You've got shared lady Gaga. Britney Spears Arianna they're all gay icons albeit very straight away ladies and I wanted to know who is the next straight white lady GAY ICON SO I deep coma from Thomas. Who's my pop culture expert? He's in the know to find out who that gay icon could be. Oh Yeah it's too early to label duleep. I mean she's fine. I guess she is a Grammy Award. Winning best new artist. Thank you know why I'm hype and so much but I mean my clear pop icon will forever be. Gino is all right next question number four. There's this stereotype that has long permeated lesbian culture. And it's that Lesbians Love Cameo in fact auto straddle did a survey about it and found that lesbians are more likely to own cats than any other group of People. I wouldn't know as I myself am a dog bisexual so I hit up Dr Rachel Cordesman. Visiting professor in women's Gender and Sexuality Studies at Wake Forest University. She curated an exhibition all about lesbians in cats by Harry. Cats have a lot of associations with southern entity and often kind of dangerous or deviant forms of feminine any so because of Lake Association so cats switches association so flake cats even with like pejorative terms for China after the nineteen seventies the sort of a defiant reclamation of cats with an different lesbians cultures lesbian feminist for reclaiming hats and now furthering this educational moment our final coup weary question number. Five is a question that I talk to. You Parker. Yes and thank you for making my next family. Thanksgiving more awkward. You're welcome you told me. Queer people love soup and you wanted to know why in so I went and asked my sweet sweet. Got Sister The undercut champion Baltimore. Why Queer people are so obsessed with soup she would. She said Parker. That's what I thought. I know. That's not a thing. Okay first of all you're making. It seem like us. Queers put soup on a pedestal. I'm just saying that UH squares like to eat some soup. I'm always being invited to sue cooking. Parties Soup potlucks. Even soup exchanges. But I mean everyone loves soup. It's delicious and it's cheap. But then I talked to my friend Kiana and Shalit's me and passionate messages like this. Why do I like soup so much? Let me tell you. Even though they look so easy and simple they could take hours almost like you know romancing a lesbian the seasonally simple but in actuality extremely hard true true but also Parker. I have a confession. I actually don't like soup what I don't like. It would have been good information to know about weeks ago. Well it still even though I don't like soup is still something I was curious about. And it's still something that holds up. I'm just a special anomaly. Okay versus So it's not a thing you have in previous Leslie. I coming up one more investigation from and it is a doozy Nancy. We'll be right back. No one is carrying soup around
Designing With Empathy with Sophia Ahamed
"I think for me My journey through kind of getting a deeper understanding of empathy and you know my role Not just in terms of career but and how I like to help others kind of their business growth. I'm developing more empathy as well Came from you know directly from my experience of losing my parents Since it's been about two two and a half years now within But you know my mother almost almost your life you know at at that time looking in my late twenties at that time and Life is just became very very difficult. I think that when you are in a situation where you're about to lose a think a very important person in life And you're not sure where that pendulums Swin It's almost like life concedes up and just become very where you just have very heightened awareness of yourself Your interactions with the world. The people around you and not in starts to come see it. It's not such a life. It's not a near life experience for me personally but it was more like You just start to become very hyper aware and I think during that time I experienced a lot of other people suffering through illness. You know my mother put her in a hospice for awhile. Because she just wasn't get an investor at that time was I go to work six. Am in the morning. And then I'll get get out of work around six PM. A hospital Tempe until the kicked me out. You know In you know you'd see people just waiting to die people who just need help but you can't help them any. It's very helpless feeling. I think that at that time I was working opposite. Just wasn't Saddam me in any way shape or form and you just become hyper aware fact that you know. I don't have wherever I was in late. Twenty S. How long have left to to do all these one do another ten years? Twenty thirty bucks. Michael Very big number now so is definitely put me in the state of awareness Does she have a terminal illness? No my mother Luckily she she did recover to the point where she didn't need to be in the hospital where she's just Heart failure so It was very touchy though. And that's GonNa last with us for live maintenance fee monitor for us for life But yeah that's that's pretty much just a bit. She's still alive today. Yes yes yes very very grateful for what mom you know. She's not going to be able to be mom. She was before flat on grateful again. Hyper awareness right. You just grateful that my mother's alive and that's very very important to me. In the way that you set that up I was like oh my gosh what what is going on. I'm trying to sort it out my head. I thought you said I had to do with losing my parents of like you lost both your parents at the same time in two years. Hold my gosh. So did you lose your dad or I did. Yes so just around the time of about mom back a stable position to be at home. He Edge Rearrange. The Bima sisters Arranged alive like my mom can't be on her own It's not that's just not going to happen But that's fine like I said I'd rather have my mother live and spin and be with her and spend time with her then then want to have anything else But a year from that. My Dad died Again very suddenly Knowingly expected this and so I in a way I kind of lost in both in in one way or you lost the mom. The you'd new in the now she kind of have to help her to care of her and she's no longer going to be the caretaker view. Right yeah I think that you know even though I think that you know obviously all adults and you don't need our parents to take care of us and that can wait you tensioness going home appearance job retention this holidays when people are like. Oh On see dad. I'M GONNA go see mom or my mom went for what you'd miss the little things and I think that's again since a piper awareness but also fuel for the work because you you get into smoking feels very singular. You know you don't have that person call on phone became an advice or hey dad you know whatever the awesome. That's just Kinda gone. So I think you know again. This bit heartache articulate because I think I'm still very much in that process of understanding my own kind of needs and wants and had fulfilled them but luckily I think a career path. That is very fascinating to me. You know being able to dive into work and have a great sense of empathy for the clients that work with A governor standing to needs and wants and also at the same time it gives me fulfillment and joy. You know. Perhaps I am in a way lacking at times because I'm still trying to navigate through this process
Saving Face with Alice Wu
"Hi I'm Alice. Wu a filmmaker improviser an order muppet. And I have a film coming out on. May first and I also have to say that. This is the honest truth that I have friends. Who are excited about my film but who genuinely are far more excited that I'm on this podcast coming out so I have to say this is like a true moment for me. Oh I'm full. Lead the sweatiest. Because I think you sort of know this because I've like I've liked twitter deemed as much but your first film saving face is one of movies of all time like I saw it at came fifteen years ago and I don't know what was going on in your life at that time and I'm going to ask you But in my life at the time I I just do not remember seeing something that felt as like sweet and like truly around calm. But it's so specific you're taking place in world that is so detailed that it feels real Which is what the best round comes do right is that they take that heightened feeling of romance try to capture it in an hour and a half or whatever but give you a detailed enough world where it makes sense and I just like. I've loved your movie ever since and it's it just alike actually changed my life. Your movie actually change my life so I just feel like wow clearly honored to speak to you. Do you mind my asking like a specific like when you say it changed Your Life I. I'm so honored like incredibly and also that movies much bigger than me. We can talk about that later in the reason. Why is exactly what you just said which is like I wrote this very specific experience but I had no idea I mean first of all who the hell thought that movie was going to get made right like fifteen years ago and when it did I honestly think again. It's much bigger than me. Not only because of all the amazing people who came together to make it but because of people like you and the other day someone from my high school who's seventeen years old wanted to interview me for my Highschool newspaper and she just discovered the movie and like her experiences. And what it meant. Make me feel really humbled so so yeah if you don't mind I'd love to hear what specifically you took from it. Yeah I'd love to tell you We'll there's a couple of things first of all. This is just like random specificity. My sister is a dancer. So one of the main characters a dancer. I don't know why like that was a great entry point for me because obviously also bought a Chinese American community in so like there was the learning about some culture. Specificity there was outside of my understanding. Plus the overlap with something that I know really well so that's just one thing that I'll say. Another part of it is the mom and daughter relationship in that film. You know I was at the time fifteen years ago. Let's see how long I been. I would've been twenty three and I was in a stage in my life where I was having really complicated experience with my parents and what I loved about or think what happened to me. Watching watching saving face was that it. It isn't a it just felt very real. It felt like a complicated real chop parent child relationship because the apparent parent is flawed. The child is not perfect. A potentially a workaholic than the mom is feeling useless in some ways because she's been separated from her community and so it just felt like I duNno. I felt a lot of I felt a lot of commonality with the characters and it also gave me something to look forward to like that. Maybe I would be able to get a relationship with my parents back and that it it could be then. The MOM also has a relationship with her parents so you see the way that generations are trying to deal with able being more true to their identity is really affected me at the kissing is cute and there's chemistry between the two main characters. Then that's him. That's a sweaty early review. Yes what do you think that? Like the best review ever I. I actually am really Touched that you could speak so sort of honestly in articulately and just like it was so emotional to- smart and end as a why I love that So now I'm articulate because I'm so moved by what you said and why I ask this because I think is a any probably any artist but certainly for me as a filmmaker in there's that moment when you're alone and you're writing and I think in that moment the thing I try to do is right. The thing that feels most emotionally honest to me And I generally believe that the more specific you are the more universal things become and that has to do with. I mean just as a as a filmmaker I fundamentally believes that were far more similar than we are different and that most people we pretty much want the same things we we want a chance to love and all the various ways we can we WANNA belong And we probably all want some sort of sense that we have a purpose in our lives right. I I don't think that really changes so much no matter whether you are gay or ear by or you're black or Asian it and given that And I guess for me. It was just a theory I had but a prove true when this film I very much wrote for my mom. I wrote it as a my mom going through a hard time. She had a very hard time with my coming out as gay. I came out my senior college and it was very difficult for her for many years. And I wrote this film in my late twenties Right around twenty seven twenty eight bright when the main character like at the main characters age and the goal for me was I was working through trying to tell my mom that it wasn't too late and her life To find love right and so as I'm writing this it's so funny because the whole time making this film. I think I'm writing it for my mom but I think it's that thing where once the film was made and it came out. I realized I'm far more selfish than that. Like a about me right. It's like I wrote it for my mom but when I watch it I realized Oh this is really about someone who desperately wants to be able to have romantic love and have her family and as Queer people we rarely get to see images of sometimes having either frankly but certainly not having both in a way that feels honest. You know it often feels either. It feels like we're watching like a ferret total fairy tale where nothing feels real or. It feels very
Revisiting the Archive: Ellen DeGeneres
"So here's the scene. It was four. Pm on Saturday February seventeenth. Two thousand one. I was in the hills above sunset boulevard in Los Angeles standing in the doorway of Ellen's modernist house looking at the video intercom. I was a little nervous. So I took a couple of depressed before I pushed the Buzzer after a while Ellen answered with a Hello. That had a question. Mark embedded in it turns out. She'd forgotten about the interview and I had to explain who I was. And why was there a minute later? Ellen greeted me the door. She really wasn't expecting me. She was dressed in a fleece top over. A t-shirt check Pajama bottoms and thick socks. Her hair was a mess. Not a fashionable bedhead mess a real mess. Ellen was very polite and apologetic as she led me into the living room along the way she introduced me to a very friendly cat a silver black and gray kitty with white paws and a white belly to match. Ellen's living-rooms loft like with lots of glass overlooking a garden. We took our places on a long tope. Mohair SOFA IONS in my backpack. As soon as I got my tape recorder out. Ellen's cat dove in to see what else was inside. I place my tape. Recorder between US ATTACHED THE LAPEL MIC to Ellen's top and oppressed record. Oh he'll join you probably but he's not real affectionate in that way Show up in hill. Walkaway wasn't allowed to do to sit right. The other one's more like that Saturday February seventeenth two thousand and one location. Is The home of Ellen. Generous in Los Angeles California Interviewers Eric. Marcus tape one side. One Citizens Building Ellen. Degeneres E. L. L. E. N. D. E. G. E. N. E. R. E. S. So all right. When did I learn about gay people? I really didn't get involved at all in any kind of politics or any awareness of gay struggles game movement. Anything at all until I came out. Just live my life and and All the way up in till you know I decided to make it public but every everybody knew That I was gay and it wasn't a problem for anybody so I just you know I live my life and I did my work and I think that's what a lot of people Choose to do and just Feel like there's no need to do anything else. It's fine like what's the what's the problem. Why do we need to do anything until you find out about the teenagers and the struggles that that most kids go through in high schools and and the statistics and the gate bashing whether it's verbal abuse physical abuse until you're really Confronted with that you. You don't think that there's a problem to growing up. There was no. We were never called names endeavor. Hassled about now not at all. Not at all. Inter family wasn't too shoe I I didn't know I was gay. I had thoughts of like liking girls. It was very clear to me that I liked girls. But it didn't think it was anything that I could actually pursue and that that was an option for you. I just thought you had a boyfriend. I got married and had a kid but I didn't ever fake it like I didn't pretend to have a boyfriend or anything like that I knew I had to fake it when I was doing standup On stage in your whole goal is to get the audience to really like you and it's hard enough to get them to like you when you're a girl on stage. I knew that that was going to be an uphill battle. If they thought I was gay it was going to be impossible. I had that all the way you know publicly until I came out because I knew that that would hurt my career. What was it that made you think what did you see? It's what I didn't see. I mean I didn't see anyone else that was openly gay and there was obviously a reason for that You you hear about the people that are in the business that are and you see how they handle their Public Persona and So you kind of follow that and when I decided that it was more important to be me and more important to live my life truthfully and to follow what. My Soul's path is that's when a lot of crying started and I realized how much fear and how much pain was a surrounding my sexuality. I didn't have a choice. Became is so big of a thing to me that it didn't matter if I was going to lose all of my money my career. It didn't matter it was what I had to do. And that became more important for the first time then. My career or quick was the process of going from most important to feeling. Like by. Don't say who I am. I can't well who knows how long it had been bubbling but when the the light bulb all of a sudden went off. I think it probably was a matter of a couple of months and I made that decision. I told my riders that that I was Gonna come out and then I wanted the character to come out at the same time so that kind of happened almost and then it took about a year for Disney to say okay. We're going to allow this when they were saying. You know I don't know and and I kept saying to them over and over again you know. You're a huge company. That can just cancel my show and move on and have another show you know. I'm the one that that stands to lose everything and if I'm willing to do this then at least you can be willing to do this. I just didn't care at the time you know if if I would have been fully aware of all the consequences and oh my God the you know the public is going to hate me and the the press is going to attack me and it's going to you know I'm really gonNA lose a lot of people Maybe I wouldn't have done it. You know but I don't think I had a choice and I was naive enough to think. Yeah but okay. They've already seen the show for four years and they know who I am. They like me. I make them happy. I see the response I get. I have people who you know. Love me who are grandmothers and young kids and all colors all ages and they're going to see gay people are not what they you know. Everybody has a certain thing. They cling onto and decide. That's what everybody is and so maybe I can help. Open their
Coming Out Stories: Tim Sigsworth MBE
"I came out to myself when I was probably fourteen years old. So that's a for a few years ago. It's a fifty one now. Was there a particular person or incident that made you question sexuality? Well I have every thing to thank my last girlfriend for owns worth and Co was a friend on on my stay on. We were dating and she knew I was gay and I didn't anyway. I I try to take my own life when I was a teenager because I was so petrified about what would happen if I came out as gay in the era of the crisis I thought I would die and that that my parents were desert me and know that panic. We could find me realize what was going on and she. She told me I was gay. Before I even thought about what was going on to me. I go to thank you for. Wow and so. She realized because you weren't acting her other boyfriends active presumably. I don't know I mean she just picked up all the signs the signs but really and I was trying to ignore it for so long. You know the turmoil will always starts before you actually go on to accept yourself and expect to you all so let some sort of place this time and a place so we are in northern England's in the early nine hundred ninety s away yes. I grew up on what was called to keep a council estate in Berry. Which was you know? I felt completely isolated in and I just locked myself in my room reading as a kid and didn't really have that many friends. My parents are quite elderly when they had me. So I'm in this world y. For a lot of isolation any shred of exploring who I was was just you know hidden away deep in the depths and that's why walls and nobody taught to and Manchester eight or nine miles away might as well as being a thousand miles away so you really felt that they didn't know any other gay people of the term absolutely a now. It's always ironic when you suddenly you go back to your hometown. And you see people scurrying around and think I went to school with you and your gay and I no idea and it's just is it just tinged with a little bit of sadness you think I could have had a group of mates at school who lgbt. I know idea but because they were going for the same thing that you're going through presumably just internalizing it and vocalizing it absolutely in. What's interesting for me? Actually one of the leads. That bullied me at school turned out to be gay. I mean I got a rendering bullied at school. Not necessarily because people thought I might be gay but I just got bullied. Generally and he was horrible to me and I just wondered if he knew because he certainly was hiding zone sexuality at the Time God. So what sort of things we getting billed for. It wasn't anything to do with sexuality then basically being swapped most of it but also because of where I grew up compared with the people I went school wage I went to bury grammar and for a lot of the Council of State that I grew upon the just unknown unheard of so there was a lot of lot. People thought. I shouldn't be at that school. People who were peed off by our well I was doing at school. And you know just mini picked on me for that. Plus all the usual stuff they picked up on little things in. How behaving you know my flamboyance and stuff like that. And they turned it into reasons to hate me since things. A lot of people have spoken to have gone through that homophobic bullying. But it sounds like it was bit more broad fear but still does massive Damage for for quite a long time. Did you find the yes? I mean I search low self worth and self esteem and without going on to what was happening at home the moment at it it was just. I didn't feel I at any words. Go for support and Kerr. And that's why when I finally made intimate Sta and to the Youth Group. It was a completely different. So I suppose kind of exploded my sexuality in a my Mid-teens okay so talk us through the journey from being fourteen to then finally going to this bt youth group at the first thing you did or did you. Did you tell anyone you will befall them? I'm Gina why didn't the the the irony is that the the age from fourteen to seventeen and a half? I think before I went to the Group. I just hit away. I'd sneak to a bookshop and get a copy of gay news or whatever it was called. Then you know things are looking the listings and gay times and do things like that and fantasize about who could be obviously channel. Four was taking off with some of the LGBT CONTENTS. Why was hidden in my bedroom watching the lgbt stuff that they were putting out so. I had literally completely private world until I got about seventeen and a half so obviously boyfriends it was just you accessing the world from your bedroom but not actually ever vocalizing it. No absolutely not obviously sizing my boyfriend what that might be like and thinking about but also. This was all happening while the iceberg was on tv all the whole world of remember the adverts for around HIV and AIDS. And he messages. Like this. And I was just. I just become petrified about right so basically been gaming Lucia family and your risk of HIV infection. That's that's the image I heard and this is legitimate risk of those of the. Yeah I mean I attempted to take my own life. Because I couldn't see a future I can see a way forward annoyed go. What do I do well? How old were you there? I think I might be fifteen a new annoy and take my all levels at that point so it was before took my all levels and the fact that my parents. I mean my parents are dead now but I don't think my parents ever knew about thought. So someone rescued. Yep I mean yeah. Well accent was wonderful and helped me see you. I walls and that was wonderful so I I suppose I come out to somebody other than lgbt people and it was over. And I always wonder who is now but certainly from South Africa. We just map. You know she lived to no. That'd be really interesting because she was phenomenal and she got me through all all
Make Australia Gay Again
"Okay. Jeremy. So you found these stamps. They're clearly very gay What what's the deal like? Where do they come from? I've never heard of this Gay Kingdom what is it where is it and how can I move there? Are you messing with this? Jeremy is even a real thing. It's actually real and I've been working all day and night to find out more. I've called experts from the United Nations. The Council on Foreign Relations. I've made burner phones. My apartment's walls are covered and post it. Notes detailing epic story behind this kingdom yarn. Did you connect them John? It's GonNa ask the same thing. Yes it's required and after lots of law sleep. I think I finally have some answers. Hermit sexual people have honestly endeavoured everywhere to merge ourselves in the social life of surrounding communities and to be treated equally. This is an excerpt from the declaration of Independence of the gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the coral sea islands. A nation created for life liberty the pursuit of happiness. And all things gay well technically. It's a micro nation. So we'll micro nation is a place that declares that they are a nation but aren't recognized by other countries So it's basically someone walks out into their front yard and they're like my front yard is a nation In their mind they are their own country but they don't really have any recognition or any kind of Legitimacy in terms of the global stage this is Derrick Thomas. I tracked him down after he made fun video online about the gay and Lesbian Kingdom. I created a youtube channel. That has an ongoing series on micro nations and kind of the funny stuff that they get up to so there see land of land lower Malaysia. Lieber Land Danica in the Game Lesbian Kingdom of the Cross island. Derek told me that this gay kingdom was born in two thousand four when Australia passed a law saying that marriage was strictly between a man and a woman with gay marriage all the rage in America. The changes here a designed to thwart any similar attempts legal recognition. At Dav aside their community is facing a new wave way of homophobia. Here's John Howard. The prime minister at the time. The definition of marriage is something that should not a time potentially be subject to redefinition will change so in an attempt to protect against future gay marriages the law said marriage is by definition between a man and a woman and every single wedding ceremony in Australia. I kid you not that definition had to be like at your wedding you would need to say the words marriage. According to law in Australia is the Union of a man and a woman. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in so romantic really but Derek said it actually kind of backfired and drew a lot more attention from activists about gay marriage than ever before Australia including one group in two thousand and four a group of gay rights activists who were attending the Brisbane. Gay Pride Festival Were frustrated with two thousand four marriage amendment act in Australia. They got on a boat. Well a seaplane That they christened the gay flower sailed it out to an island in the coral sea islands. Territory called CATO. Island planted a flag and said this is our country now Gay Marriage is legal. And that's kind of how the gain lesbian keenum of coral sea islands
Support for the LGBTQ Community is on the Rise in the US
"Comparing numbers in in this Will REPORT BETWEEN Sort of how support for the. Lgbtq community has shifted between the years. Two Thousand Fifteen and two thousand nineteen right just a four year period. Okay Yeah that's that's not a huge period. Not a huge period. But it's very interesting. They surveyed more than forty thousand Americans. Small it's not small and they've found that seventy two percent of this group said that they they favored nondiscrimination protections for lesbian gay bisexual transgender People and that was in two thousand nineteen study seventy percent great so you can like that. Wow like amazing levels of support when you think about how far we've come since early two thousands so that's that's really remarkable and And something to be really really happy about but there's something in these numbers knew there was a but I knew that but is shocking and mildly. Hard to put your hat. Wrap your head around okay. During the same period the number of people who said they oppose allowing small businesses to refuse products and services to gays if doing so would violate their religious beliefs In Two Thousand Sixteen These the which was the highest point right at sixty one percent of Americans said that this this you know they're they're an opposition to this make sense. It's not fair it's not write. This number is dropped from two thousand sixteen right to fifty six percent in two thousand nineteen. Yeah and and this is surprising. People are I I'm a little taken aback by this. That the numbers could shift like that It's just five percentage points but like still right like I here's the problem The messaging on the wrong side of this issue is so good. It's their messaging is easy. It's just religious freedom. Yeah exactly. This is a country that has religious freedom. Yeah and the messaging on the other side isn't getting through which is just if you practice it you know if you're open to for business in the United States you're open for everybody right and that's the end. I know it's it's a really funny thing. And and what they're looking at in this article is they're talking about specifically the cases that were sort of out there in the news do with like cakes for weddings and so Yes you was linked to gay marriage and so the support of gay marriage and and so people that they were seeing. No that's not fair. That's not right. Let it up. But you're right. They as soon as the religious right lost on the gay marriage issue and saw the numbers like the support out. There in the public is so high right right. They know that they're not going to win that. And they're just going to look like dicks right and they're not gonna get the thing that they their their plan. B which is they want to be able to discriminate against gay people in some fashion right right and if they held on hard to keep fighting gay marriage gay marriage gay marriage they'd look like dicks right would lose favor on these other issues and the public's opinion would be solidified. They're actually really. They deftly shifted their focus. This issue And it looks like we've got some work to do because this is so fucking wrong right and I don't get how people can how they don't see this right. If you support marriage right at a at a rate of seventy two percent of this country right supporting gay people in equality in equal rights just in rights. You don't have to go to their wedding. Yeah just have to like the FA you just have to be okay with people having equality. How can there be this disparity right in other sort of other rights the rights to go about your life and to go and get goods and services at any business that's opened generally to the public? Yeah but that's the problem is that they couch it as a right. I have the right not to serve people that I don't want to. I have a right to discriminate. Great and when he's a stylish that you don't really well but we've established that you have the right to hate them and you have the right to be addict about it. But the problem is the People. Don't understand what the what being you know hanging out a shingle means what it means to say. I've opened a business to the public. Right we gotta we gotta get on the
Revisiting the Archive: Vito Russo
"So then you were involved in activist activities through the early Seventies. What was happening by nineteen seventy one? Seventy two seventy three was that I was in graduate school in cinema getting a masters in film At the same time I was working days at the Film Department Museum Modern Art and I was heavily involved with the GAY activists alliance so those three facts sort of conspired to make me realize that I wanted to write a readable accessible book about the history of the ways in which lesbians and gay men have been portrayed on the screen especially in mainstream movies which reach most people. Because I felt that our image was at the root of Homophobia that people will be taught that the things about us as gay people. That simply aren't true when they were being taught this by the Mass Media. Buy Movies by whatever and that. If I could address that that that would be what I can do to help. What was the reaction? The book was published. I heard comments from people in Hollywood. Who say you know? This is a very important book. Because what you've done here is you've illuminated the ways in which we have not dealt with this subject dealt with whatever and. I wonder often I mean I have no way of perceiving whether or not the book did any good in terms of its actual impact on movies because I still see most mainstream Hollywood films. As homophobic history has brought us to a point where AIDS suddenly intervened and AIDS has thrown a monkey wrench into any progress. That Hollywood was making in the seventies and now people adjusts a scared to deal with the subject at all or be homophobic in the extreme. And you just can't go to a movie in which they don't slip in some fad joke. I mean a great film could be made about the tragedy and drama and the courage this community in the face of a fatal disease in my life. I've never seen such courage the way people are bearing up losing their friends. There's a story there. There's a movie there are many movies. They're they don't WanNa make you know because it's not happening to the real people the general public heterosexuals When did you become aware of the issue of as now? Let's talk about you personally. Affected you in quite dramatically yeah and I- steering territory. That WanNa talk about this new problem telling me In retrospect now that we all look back on it because of probably geography and Politics. I was and my friends probably knew about AIDS before most people in the country because of where we are placed there were a group of people who knew each other from fire island. I had met a guy named Nick Rock. We play cards occasionally and like myself was a collector of films. Nick was probably the first person I knew who died of AIDS. But we didn't know that that's what the disease was at the time. And it was only nineteen seventy nine. We were told that nick died of cat. Scratch fever which does not kill you. You know it's just not possible. The fact of the matter was that he had no immune system the dive cat scratch fever. It was about eighty two or eighty three when I really. The bulk of the bad news came to us and then my boyfriend got sick. And that was the beginning of an even more intimate involvement from me. Four of eighty four eighty five again. Jeffrey got sick and wanted very much to be in San Francisco. Geoffrey Geoffrey grew up in. Pittsburgh went to San Francisco state and loved. San Francisco. Didn't WANNA leave their and our relationship we've lived together for five years. We moved back and forth. Been Jeffrey got sick. He wanted to choose to be sick in San Francisco. And so I got a job at the San Francisco AIDS Foundation and I lived in San Francisco Jeff. Jeffrey was sick for a long time. A year and a half. I didn't know what to do to save him. You know when you love somebody you always feel like they're not GonNa die as long as you're with them you know I mean if you stay with them and you take care of them that they won't die and I really felt like you know against all rational truth. I could save him. Jeffrey became at the end. Very unmanageable emotionally. And psychologically. He was very difficult to live with and I was sick myself and so became a constant battle of how much stress I could put myself under. 'cause I was ill and eventually I had to go to Australia. I was booked to do a lecture at a Gay Film Festival. I was on my way home. They couldn't reach me. I was on route from Melbourne to Honolulu. They didn't know where to reach me. He was dying. He was in San Francisco. General and I couldn't get a flight out of Honolulu for twenty four hours. There was no space and when I arrived in San Francisco he had died the night before the last time I saw Jeff. He was in a drawer at the morgue. Nee opens it out. And they showed me him and I spent a few minutes him and I held his hand and said goodbye devastated by the fact that I wasn't with him and couldn't reach him and didn't see him before he died and also and I miss him terribly. I mean just terribly. He's been gone almost three years now and I'm still sick. I'm very lonely. You know it's hard to live alone and be sick alone and as many of your friends as you have and I have good loving friends and a great support system people cannot be sick for you know and they can't suffer you and they can't be with you all the time. Jeff had you during the time he was able to do and he did. Have someone fulltime you. I took him to the hospital and I took him to the doctor and I fed him and I cooked. I mean I. I did what I wanted to do but then Jeffrey was gone and I was alone and you get a cat by herself and there was nobody takes care of me who the hell is going to get into a relationship with somebody WHO's probably. GonNa die soon you know they don't WanNa put themselves through that. Most of the people who my friends are dead. Most of my friends are dead and at this age. That shouldn't be on forty two. Yeah and it's not natural by any definition of the word natural. It's natural at this age to have lost most of the people love. And so you throw yourself into politics. The images I've seen of you in the last couple of years. Why senior on television. I seen you in a very very activist. Roy Yes so it's been a hasn't been aged Has I was One of the people along with Larry Kramer and Vivian Shapiro and Tim Sweeney and a couple of other people who founded act up which became a whole new phase of activism. Not only for me but for the community in general and it's a new kind of activism because it's created a coalition which we would never able to achieve in the seventies stacked up is composed of gay people and straight people women and men black and white you know and effectively act up has been a very interesting experience because all these people have one thing in common and they want to put it into the AIDS crisis when by any means possible.
Asifa Lahore: Coming Out Stories
"Didn't always believed I was female. I When I hit puberty I kinda realize I was attracted to boys and I guess the time because like trans visibility was so low. I mean I go there. I'm chatting about like the late ninety. S I didn't see any trans people around me born and bred London. So I do not see Trans people around me so gay. People just assumed that I was gay. And did you articulate it to anybody? Then those people that you were gay. Did you ever commit your family's Life Gordon? I obviously like I'm from British Muslim background My parents are from Pakistan. And I'm proud of those identities but when I was growing up I felt really conflicted and I felt like I couldn't be myself and coming out was good. It was never on the table. It was one thing that I don't think I would have. I feel the time I'd never have the courage to tell my parents about me. Being who I am boy what. What did you feel the reaction would be? I think at the time I just assumed that they wouldn't understand. They wouldn't understand because Number one in like my mother languages of Job Like there's no word for gay Although I knew of at the time you obviously know that you know the word gay exists the word lesbian bisexual but in my own languages I have no idea how to say it and the other thing I thought obviously was religion would play a part of growing up inherently knew that it was wrong to be gay but I didn't know why but I just knew it was wrong. Say I just kind of didn't tell anyone so were you actively going to the mosque researching involved in pro. Yes I mean throughout my life. I've I wouldn't class myself. As someone who's like staunch by the book Muslim many people would consider me very bad in the sense that you know. I don't pray five times a day. I'm lucky if I make the the mosque. Once a week fostering down I give to charity. I believe in Gods but many people would consider me quite a liberal Muslim. Shall we say so as a child who busy going to the most can not having this conversation presumably some point you came around and you know what I've got the strength and this is the right time to hardshell. Ticky light it until more star gay. Yeah and I'll tell you exactly when it was so I sort of came out in two stages as gay one was when my younger sister found my diary I was sixteen. She was ten and she came to me and she said look. I know I've been reading a diary and I was like she had found out. I tell me about sister really sneak into my room but yes. She basically kind of confirmed somebody known minds. I live shows. I look. I'm cool with it. Just turns out MOM and dad because they're not going to understand that and because a lot of trouble so Kensington myself and it was only when I was like twenty two twenty three and I was at university. And that's when I kind of came out and all hell broke loose. And what's so? Obviously my mom and dad did not understand what it was to be gay I thought maybe there was something you know something wrong with me sexually in the sense that maybe. I don't know I remember. My Dad asking me was. Is there anything wrong with your quin or something or having right but I am discussing so many like personal things with your mom and dad is like cranes sit down conversation in the front room talk in the front room in my bedroom? It was me my mom and my dad. I don't think they wanted anyone else to hear what was going on. But they ended up basically taking me to like the local. Gp IN THEIR WORLD. They thought okay. There is something medically wrong here. Obviously like the doctor who again was from an Asian background in his sixties really stood up for me and he said look You know there's nothing that I can prescribe your son and I understand the struggles and the challenges around like culture and religion. But this is something you're going to have to deal with as family so I was then taken to the mosque and I ended up discussing so many things with my mom including like though a few things on the table one was celibacy which was never going to happen. I mean that boy I mean I was not going to tell my folks and my community that I wasn't a virgin but I wasn't but you actually discussed this with the Emma Lee. Yeah I mean Celibacy was quiet. It was like if you remain Saliba and you know you don't have same sex relationships you'll be fine. You know that was. That was never ever going to happen. The second thing that was really put on the table was marriage to a female. And the idea that if you marry then it will kill you like. Oh you haven't had sex with a woman once you're married and you have sex and you have. Children is Kinda like that side of you. Will you'll forget side of you like it. Won't it won't have happened so you must have felt very isolated insensitive. Nobody understood what you really go. Through a yeah. I felt super isolated. I mean my gay friends did not really understand. They will allow you just reject. Until why don't you just leave family and my Muslim friends obviously did not really know about me. I mean I I was living like double life and under that pressure at the time of sort of coming out. I felt like a really dark depression on. I ended up agreeing to like Marriage to like my first cousin in Pakistan and I was in that engagement for good six months. Did you meet this play around my cousin like when I was young on on frequent trips to Pakistan there was a period of my life like in my early teenage years. I lived him back some for for years. So you know I knew her and We were always good friends but you know when this whole she bang happened. It kind of felt like into really dog depression. I knew it was only when you know I I was put in touch with like lgbt charities in London where I began getting counseling. I'm where I began getting support I began meeting other gay Muslims and other LGBT Asian people. And I kid you not emma up until that point I really believed I was the only Asian Games village really really really I did. And that's a hard place to be really really hard because I kind of like felt like I was like a soldier at the time. Battening everything on my own. And you can't like he contact all these things on your own all these issues and it's only when I kind of felt like okay. I've found my people I've found my tribe. I went back to like my mom and dad and I said look. I'm not going through with this. I'm definitely gay. You know I'm not going to be forced into marriage to my female cousin and although you know my mom and dad will okay fine. There's nothing we can. No one can be forced to do this. It did Craig quite rift in the family because my first cousin is such a close relationship and stop me like going to Pakistan for such a long time because I was kind of a bit of a bit scared ashamed a bit like why did I you know why did I do that. Did she. Accept it did her family except in the end at the time but years later like you know one side come out and once I'd gone once I'd like established a successful career once I was out out to the world and once I went back to Pakistan like a good ten years after the incident they understood. Then
Revisiting the Archive: Shirley Willer
"And at that time was considered criminal. Thanked I remember being picked up by the front of my shirt back and forth by a policeman because I was on the streets at eleven o'clock in a head on slacks women's slacks and sports shirt policemen policemen. I was walking down the street trying to find a gay bar that I'd heard of women on and women's slacks but obviously made us Taylor as possible trailer clothing. Means what Brooks present. Now that I'm not talking about a man I'm talking about a woman's I had massive muscles here Made rebuild the top here. They costs fortune. I think cost me all one hundred twenty dollars to have tailored the policemen say anything that would he was hitting you too and he called me. Names Dan Pervert you acquire Uso me and so forth and you couldn't call the police. Could you didn't call. The police was a policeman but in fact I finally did find the bar and I'm not sure but what might still be. There was a seven seas where this the first bar you went to. So you got you got slapped around the first time you're on your way salmon and we're doing bar stupid question here. Was that frightening and was frightened. I was angry. Why were you had no right to do that to me? And that's been my attitude on. I might have done right you. How did you find the bars? How did you know about this all started out as most people do thinking I was the only one then? I realized there had to be more out. There wouldn't be any kind of books and it wouldn't be any definition but of course I didn't know how to war ended always Cormon came back. These nurses Miller came back in the navy and the army and then of course when they were working in the hospital we met each other and most of them were pretty flaming Queens. When you say these guys were flaming. Can you describe for me? What what that means. They will call it being extremely swish. The mannerisms were very limp-wristed. Even at work they would emphasize terminent characteristics. Thank goodness city. Hospital was simply didn't seem to pay much attention to it. They did the right to do the job right. That's all that matters at that time. Big Events in Chicago with the Halloween balls era gun Huge ballrooms one on the north side. When southside every Halloween all bars were off and everybody went in cost and all of us would get Tuxedos and over all the women and dressing are bushiest silos and we all go to balls The air gun was on the north side of Chan. Southside these particular big events where again run by the Mafia and We'd hired them scenes. You see and get a police escort through the crowds in order to get inside and one year gay people one year that people could be gay and it was the only visible sign that they're literally were thousands and thousands of gay people in the city. Where was the first time you went to this? And the nineteen forties was short short. We have to gotTA service because I remember. They dressed me how address you enter. Tuxedo and tied my and put makeup on me. I never worn makeup in my life wore dresses. When did you become aware that there was any kind of organized? There wasn't much unorganized organized movement The Oni organized group that I could find out about was one which was more literary and this is already by nineteen fifty early nineteen fifties and ten so what happened during the during the nineteen four. Then it was pretty much on our own volition that we would so many young women that were being thrown out of their homes so we started our own little informal groups and we take in all the kids. I take it out in the street and we would he pushing them to stop trying to hide it. be themselves. I believe that you should stand up becomes dangerous for most people. It's always dangerous for anyone who doesn't have any money in the bank. We weren't many of them endangered. Losing their jobs depend on the job. They would take no majority of wouldn't take jobs where they were endangered. They would go for the Dirty jobs rough jobs running elevator. I remember one in particular very bright girl but the only governor she could get was running an elevator because she wouldn't wear threats so are we didn't call ourselves any particular group.
ContraPoints with Natalie Wynn
"I've always kind of liked YouTube. I like the chaos of it. I don't even mostly watch politics. I watch a lot of makeup videos. I watch cooking videos. I WATCH VIDEOS OF COMPETITIVE EATING. I just I. I like the kind of like the way that it's so. Diy in the way that these personalities that would never make it not not any chance of making it in conventional media to cut millions of followers on Youtube. Natalie is joked that she failed her way into youtube stardom after dabbling as a musician dropping out of philosophy. Phd Program and attempting to make it as a fiction writer. Natalie pivoted to video this was in two thousand fifteen soon after she moved to Baltimore and the same year. The city's black lives matter. Movement rose up in response to police killing Freddie Gray and online gamer gate. Trolling and harassment was in full. Swing watching that situation and the black lives matter movement also just incredibly ignorant response from most people on the Internet. That kind of sparks. I think my early interest in trying to talk about these topics on Youtube especially once I saw that a lot of the politics that was going on youtube was like ignorant at best and like Senator Fascist propaganda at worst no things to the power of algorithms the more videos Natalie watched on youtube about things like feminism racism et Cetera. The more crazy shit she saw and the deeper she got into the radicalized rabbit holes of Youtube. My recommended videos feed on Youtube was suddenly full of these videos. Titles like feminism is cancer. Black lives matter is a racist terrorist organization. You know Like these are the talking points that were sort of growing on Youtube in two thousand fifteen. I knew enough to know that was bad. Natalie decided to launch her own YouTube channel. Contra points as a new wants to entertain encounter to all the right wing propaganda. She was seeing on the Internet and as a way to understand why these movements were bubbling up in the first place. Her first video was on in. Cells Aka involuntary celebrates and it's been watched more than three million times and this video. I don't WanNa mock insoles or lecture them or even sympathize with them. I just want to understand who they are. And why they're like this to start with. Sometimes the over thirty five minutes Natalie. Deconstructs in Selma Sajjan step by step grappling with their ideas and even offering some empathy. And that's the key to our videos and a real part of her success. So in your videos you confront a lot of toxic ideas around things. Like in sells for instance. So what is your goal? And how do you approach? Debunking these arguments while it is anthropological. I guess in some sense that is. I'm making a video to inform like a general public about this unusual online subculture. Most very aware that the people from that subculture are going to watch the video. So I I TRY TO MAKE VIDEO. That has like an escape hatch or like a life. Preserver a rope thrown whatever metaphor. I WANNA use that basically allows someone who's watching videos as an incentive to not feel like I'm simply just antagonizing them but also the at least making the effort to understand where they're coming from but my natural inclination when I'm reading this stuff is to be like. Oh Wow this is like these. People are horrible. Impossible to get along with their credit misogynistic but they're also like really really lonely and unhappy and I can try to make a video that doesn't just caricature them but 'cause that's pointless to me so. I try to give people three dimensions what I'm describing them when I'm describing these toxic online subcultures. Do you get the kinds of comments along the lines of like Yeah I mean Natalie. One's pretty liberal. But she's not like all those other liberals like I feel like that's a common trope among lake. I don't know in my conservative comment culture. Oh definitely like that's not not like other liberals is definitely kind of part of the brands like the one I hear the most actually is people say they don't feel judged by me They don't feel like I got a call from someone who said like I was only like transgender person. Could stand to watch Because I didn't make feel a dirty word during that. They would claim that about myself. But I'm glad they feel that way because that is exactly what I sort of go for. I guess WanNa make the videos. I mean I noticed early on that. If you're gonNA talk about especially the social justice kinds of issues. People are so defensive about it. And if you'RE GONNA get through to them you have to make a lot of rhetorical concessions. That might seem totally unreasonable. Like you just can't say the word transphobia most of the time it's just it's just people hate it. People hate accused of anything phobia. Just shut their brains. Doubted Shits shut their ears down. They stop listening to you and same with like calling calling. People Racist Sexist misogynist. There's a turn the time and a place for life using these words But it's not when you're trying to persuade general audience. In my opinion it just causes people to shut down. I think that's such a interesting in really important point in terms of like making the rhetorical concessions and it comes up a lot even just in terms of like you know questions we get of like. Should I call myself a feminist? Well that'd be to alienate. I mean just like basic is that. Is it more valuable to make some rhetorical concessions? If you are going to get through to a person versus using the kinds of words that will to use a term trigger trigger a lot of like hybrid conservative or like. Red Pill types. Well it's always it's always a give and take it's a question of. I mean you lose something when you make the rhetorical concessions often but for me it's about I guess I tried to start a strategize. I'm writing a script like how I can make rhetorical concessions without making ideological concessions to of my own
Revisiting the Archive: Edythe Eyde
"I had just moved down to Los Angeles in nineteen forty five after I spent two and a half miserable years being a secretary in Palo Alto. I moved down here. I knew no gay people in Palo Alto. As a matter of fact I didn't even know the Word Lesbian in Palo Alto and the way I did find out was I was sunning myself up on the top of the garage of the place where I had Rome and some other girls that lived in the building came up to and spread out their towels. I somehow noticed that all of their talk was The plenty of it. They never mentioned boys names and I thought well gee that's refreshing to hear some people talk that aren't always talking about their boyfriends and breakup and this that and the other one of the girls turned to me and said are you gay and I said well. I try to be as happy as I can. Under the circumstances but and they all laugh then they said. Oh no no and they told me what it meant and I said well yes. I guess I am because I don't. I don't really actively go out and search for BOYFRIENDS I. I don't care for that. And so they will. You must come with us to a girls softball game. The Game Wasn't exciting to me aboard the Tara. A May I mean. I just don't care for Sports. I know that's very funny for a lesbian to say but it is true. I never have cared for but I went along to be with the crowd. You see then the next thing next week or so. They took me down to a gay bar. I looked around man. I knew tears came to my is partly because of the cigarette. Smoke and I thought gee how wonderful that all these girls can be together so the girls could dance together there so I started dancing with one or the other of them. That would come over and ask me. I never asked them. They asked me because I was obviously feminine. I had my hair long and I wore jewelry and I just didn't look like a gay guy how you know. I didn't have the close cropped hair tailored attire. That was so prevalent in those days and I didn't do any of that jazz because I just didn't feel like it. You know and I was darned if I'm GONNA. I was going to do it just because everybody else did. I mean I am a girl. I've always been a girl. The only difference is I like girls.
Chromosomes... What are they?
"We're talking about genetics. We're talking about chromosomes. We're talking about A lot of things that you have a history working in so can you tell our listeners? A little bit about your history and your history professionally and sort of what what you have actually been studying what you've been working on. Yeah sure the so. The main reason I'm here is back back when you first met me. I was working on my undergrad degree. Which was in biology with Canova sub specialty in genetics So that was the first step and then after graduation. I decided that I wanted to do with a was get into testing on the clinical side of things As a job so I spent another year and a half doing coursework mostly to focus on those lab techniques and things like that and had to take my professional certification exam technically I'm ASEP. American Society of Clinical Pathology certified as a molecular biology. Which means I can do. Dna testing well and other molecular level testing But the specific site where I was working for about four years. Was Genetics lab in Boston. Where they did a variety of testing clinically for a variety of genetic disorders. They did some DNA sequencing mostly what I did you correctly remembered when we were speaking before. The podcast is what I was testing for. Was Major chromosomal abnormalities. That you can see without sequencing. A lot of the major six comes on normalities that cause many intersex traits that you mentioned fall into that category. And now when you say sequencing just because I honestly don't know what that means but I've heard it in movies I've heard it to me What what is sequencing DNA sequencing? So typically in your cell's DNA exists in a very very condensed form right because there's a lot of it. There are tons and tons and tons of base pairs that read off all the proteins that your body needs so it's usually very very condensed. So what sequencing means is that you are kind of teasing that out and reading one base pair of your Danny at a time in the sequence whereas what I did was more honestly higher level where we looked at chromosomes which are special versions of that contains DNA where you can see kind of like a bigger chunks of genetic material missing. But you're not going base pair by base pair. One at a time can okay. Now I think the the big question that my listeners are going to want to know the answer to is so does that mean that you could clone dinosaurs. I remember you had time. I mean I know the answer to this when our audience doesn't pull the whole who I directly understand the process but I don't think I should so it's not that you can't it's that you shouldn't. You're doing the thing that Dr You'd welcome said correctly. Which is they? You are in fact following what he is. He's trying to say. Which is that you asked you asked could you but then you ask should you said probably yeah. Yeah okay. So since we brought up Dr Malcolm Jurassic Park. I'm curious if there is any media that you've consumed that represents whether accurately reportedly The field that you have worked in the field that you are currently working. Oh boy there's a whole range to be honest. I I love to talk about them and provide a reading list and I'm trying to think about I mean. Usually usually they have it right on some level but then there's some level of detail that's either missing or a little bit inaccurate. There's only so much that you can understand a someone who's just like picking up reading books as opposed to actually devoting time to learning learning it right. I mean that could be. But also there's only a certain level of it that functions in your fiction. I think part of it to you. You know you can utilize it up to a certain level but it's important that everything in your story is cohesive. Don't WANNA I don't know too much detail. I think in a lot of cases so and I think especially with fiction. You WanNa make sure that you're building the world enough but at a certain point especially because it's fixing fiction. It's just like well at some point. I've gotTa Tell an interesting story or I'm just going to write a book of Nonfiction About Gene Simmons. Which that that. That is a book. I read fairly recently.
Thomas and Tranna Share What Life Has Been Like During the Coronavirus Pandemic
"China. We are six feet apart in. The studio is reality for the new world order. Have you been? Isn't it so weird to ask that question anymore? Lake were still so socially trained to be like. How are you expecting someone just to say? Fine Right. But no one's fault. We are not fine. I I've been thinking about a lot in this moment because it's all of your worst fears coming together. I think like being your friend over the years I I realize that your fear is really the fear of social breakdown. Yeah it's really the fear of society not really being able to work for everyone anymore. Yeah well I really regret watching the handmaid's tale year and a half ago. I regret reading every just opium novel. I've ever read in my life so last week like when this sort of really started to hit us here in Canada I sort of spiraled into like these dystopia n worst case scenario imaginings than. I really freaked myself out. You know but then I spoke to a friend of mine like whose whole family is scientists. And he just really calm down brought me back to. Earth so science is grounded. Yeah well you told me. We had a conversation and you were like. I'm only listening to information that is coming from the health officials and the scientists do think that's important right now. I mean I I watch almost every press briefing. We have this like really iconic doctor here in Quebec where we live is name is Dr Arruda. He has a way of conveying social distancing measures. That makes it almost like enjoyable right. Just take time for yourself do things. You never really have time to do but that you could only do at home like this is not a moment of like great freedom. You know the time to like we can't make our wildest dreams come true when when I you know. Social distancing is a new concept for all of us but when I was reading about it I was like wow. This is Isa's Paradise for China. No it's not no no. I'm definitely an introvert. I definitely need a lot of alone. Time to recharge. But I'm also someone who thrives on connection I mean that's the basis of everything that we do as performers. Getting up on a stage is not really about like my sort of selfish enjoyment. It's about creating this feeling of connection and like that's when I feel the most alive that's the part. That's very worrisome. With this is like I love live events live show heard. I've always said this and I've said it usually in response to the threat of the way you know. Social Media and online content threatens live performance. But one thing that I've said many times is that in my mind like the death of our society and our humanity is the end of live performance. Because it's sort of like one of the last things that still really brings us face to face with one another so right now in this sort of new normal but it's not really a new normal that we can get used because it's changing everyday but what's an average day for you right now in the midst of this well. The first few days I organize my books for some reason that gave me security and I felt like okay. I still have the books. Everything's GonNa be alright And then I live with roommates so you know like I'm never home so I never see my roommate But then we still don't really talk weird. It's this weird like we social distance in the apartment. You know which is good. I have my own desk. He has his death. The health experts would be in agreement. I try to wake up early ish and not like stay in bed but one thing. I did really early on was actually to deactivate in my facebook profile I kept messenger but the activated facebook and deleted facebook and instagram. From my phone. So I'm actually you know watching the news on television and being like Oh this is enough and kind of being able to feel when I've had enough information or you know even food like let's say I feel more connected to what I need right now in a really strange way. I'm weirdly calm through this and now like I don't have a lot to do but I am. I you know I try to write a little bit. I mean it's not all successful but I'm really a I'm really sort of taking stock is what I'm doing. Mostly what how are your days? I'm so panicked that I try to sit down and read and I just can't like there's so many thoughts going through my mind so I- surprisingly have been sleeping really well. Maybe this is too dark humor. Like I'm really saying this jokingly maybe we'll just delete it but every night before I go to bed I kind of I'm like I hope I don't wake up in the morning but I I do wake up but I I get it because when I wake up. I'm surprised that waking up and I'm still here I do this but I don't want to minimize the seriousness of lake suicidal idiot. But that's not what it is for me. It's just more like I'm just so overwhelmed that I kind of imagine that scene in sleeping beauty where sleeping beauty falls asleep and then all the good fairies go around the kingdom and put everyone asleep until she wakes up right. I'm like can we all just be in some kind of medically induced coma fix this. Wake us up when it's over because I'm Jay. I can't. I can't say that I've been super functional. I mean it's really hard to be creative. Yeah why can't I haven't even attempted that yet but at the same time to me. It's really an opportunity to get back to basics to get back to the essential to like not run around all day life before this was a rat race. You know and I think this has put a stop on the rat race for so many and I think I think a lot of people are looking at their lives and like what am I running after. Yes Roy and I think it proves that a lot of things like you know The nine to five workweek showing up at an office every day. Maybe is not the way to go in the future. Every aspect of life now is kind of You know is disturbed and I. I think it's bad like ninety nine percent bad but I think there are few ways that we could be like. Oh wait a second like for me. That's kind of the silver lining. I believe that's so strongly I think positive is more than one percent you know and I do believe in God. I don't know how to say this without sounding so corny but like I do believe that there is a universal force you know it is sort of guiding us moments especially like this. Come with a message you know. And I think that we've spoken about this on the show with our gas leak. We've spoken about you. Remember talking to law and morality about gentrification and the way that people in San Francisco can afford to live there and all of these communities have been pushed out. We've spoken about it in terms of what's happening here in Montreal. The way that rent prices are going up and up and up everywhere and people are having to get more than one fulltime job just to afford the basics and the way that corporate greed has ravaged the environment and it was like how much longer we're going to be able to keep that up for this. Pandemic has the sort of capability to shake the foundations of everything that has been so corrupt. This means that we just are looked after more and that we are all guaranteed a sort of basic living
Glennon Doyle: Untame Yourself
"My one thing right and my one thing is like trying as much as I can to stay in integrity so since that's my one thing. It didn't matter what everybody else was saying to me. How was it to actually live that now? Hearing you and seeing beautiful family and everything I don't want to say you know worked out but looks like you guys have fallen into this beautiful family together going back to that. How was it to actually make that decision decision to fall in love with via the decision to go public and just let the crowd falls? I mean for me. The thing that was most hard about that decision had nothing to do with public opinion or the book or whatever it was about my children. It was about my family as you. Well know it's like there's the world which lake will do whatever it will do but then really your world is the people that you can touch around you so those were the people that I was most worried about and I think that the reason I was worried is because I was just tamed. Into believing that mother is a murder right so I believe that a good mother does not break her child's heart. Good mother does not break up her family. So I might know in the depth of my bones that I am in love with this woman that I meant to be with her and this is like myself saying yes please but I can't do that because it would screw my people and then one day I was breeding my daughter's hair and I just had this thought which was. Oh my God I am staying in this marriage for her but what I want this marriage for her and if I would not want this marriage for her then why am I modeling. Bad love for her and calling that good mothering. Which made me realize how deeply I had been tamed right. The cultural messages to women are always no matter. What venue hear them from? Get as small as you can until you disappear. The way they do that to mothers is to say the ideal mother is a martyr the ideal mother is someone who just buries her dreams. Her ambition her feelings desires and calls that love and it took me looking at my daughter and knowing that she's looking to me to see. How does a woman live to figure out? No no no. The Taming of motherhood is saying no a mother is not a murder. A mother is a model. Children will only do will only allow themselves to live as fully as their parents did. So the call of motherhood the call of parenting is to refuse to settle for any conversation relationship room institution. That is less beautiful than the one we would want for our babies and what I figured out was this. Little girl does not need need me to save her. What this little girl needs to do is watch her mother. Save herself for me. It was one at a time figuring out that the one of the lies that women have been sold is that we cannot trust ourselves. We cannot go for what we want because it will be bad for our people that what we need and what are people need are mutually exclusive. Right that's why you always hear. Oh I would do that. I would go back to school but I can't because my kids I would do this but I can't because my kids and that's a lie that's utter Horse Shit like what is true and beautiful for us is always eventually what is true for our people right and there is no such thing as one way liberation. When you for yourself you automatically free everyone around you because freedom is contagious. So at the time you've built up an audience that was predominantly Christian women. What did you think the reaction was going to be? And then what was it in actuality? I had always been like for the decade before that I had been an outspoken completely like flaming supporter of the Algae. Btcu community like. I've been more gay. Pride parades that abby has and she's like the gasquet that ever gate I was intentionally creating a culture that celebrated inclusivity and differences and sexualities of all kinds. If you're still a part of my community that you understood that this announcement was less of a departure from our values and more like a manifestation of our values right and that's one of the beautiful things about living in integrity. Is that if you're always saying the thing that you believe on the inside you're always losing the right people so everybody that was there. They were because they had a they weren't all like minded but they were like hearted right. They were people that I would expect to say. Yes you have shown up you have shown us your untamed and whether we understand or not you are both held and free here