WKPWP - Thursday Flagship - Keller & Sam Roberts on Ronda-Charlotte-Becky, their picks for the top matches at WrestleMania 35 (11-22-18)

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Choosing an energy company raises many questions constellation can answer all of them with energy solutions that fit your needs energy, efficient, simple, inciteful inflexible. That's what makes constellation America's energy choice. Learn more constellation dot com slash energy. Want entertainment designed just for you, then checkout, customizable, streaming TV for mixed Finnity. It makes your life simple easy. Awesome. Expended? He gives you, customizable, streaming TV options. Enjoy the most free shows anywhere on any device and even access your streaming apps right on your TV with x one. Go to any dot com. A one eight hundred eighty or visit a store today. To learn more restrictions apply. If you shop at Amazon, I have a request when you shop at Amazon, don't go to Amazon dot com. That sounds weird. How're you gonna shop at Amazon if you don't go there. Well, they'll go directly there start at PW, torch dot com slash Amazon, that's p w torch dot com slash Amazon. When you go there. There's a giant Amazon logo click on it. It takes you right to the Amazon homepage where you were heading anyways. But that small detour tells Amazon we sent you there. And when they get that message. They sent us a commission on everything that you buy. So it's a great way to support us without having to do anything different other than when you shop at Amazon start at p w torch dot com slash Amazon. That's PW torch dot com slash Amazon. Thank you so much for your support. Now, PW Tortsen spreaker bring you the Wade Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking current events in pro wrestling. All right seven. I was starting to talk vote crazy ten weeks or ten days it's fan. And we're like let's just hit record because we're going to start talking about stuff we wish recorded this. Sam has been is a vengeful up rooting of ten ten day stretch in WWE booking that I can remember. I mean, I know they're superstar shakeup in that feels real different. But the number of he'll turns injuries Braun strowman added to the mix with album surgery, the tone of the show everything just feels like compared to two weeks ago. I would have not have that August we'd be standing here with a topic list. We have on today. Show yen. No that's one hundred percent, right. And I think this is a lot different than the two per star shakeup because we're prepared for the superstar shakeup and the superstar shakeup is done by design. This is done by necessity, and we'll dive into this deeper, I suppose, but to me what the last two weeks has really proven not that we didn't know before. But now. We've seen how valuable it is that the talent roster the WWE not only has but has access to and by that. I mean, not only the active roster superstars, but the legends that they also have is so deep like the trouble that can happen in terms of cards and events and everything like that. And still be able to be pulled off is like nothing that I think we've ever seen in history. Well, let's let's actually set the table early here introduce ourselves, and then we'll hit on some of the the topics expand on that some more to. This is the way Keller pro wrestling podcast. It's the Thursday flagship happy thanksgiving everybody in America. It is November twenty second two thousand eighteen I'm waiting Keller editor of the pro wrestling torch weekly newsletter since the late nineteen eighty s and editor of Peter torch dot com and host of the way. Pro wrestling potions and podcasts and a bunch of yet podcast wrote the week, and I'm joined today by not Sam Sam Roberts from the not Sam wrestling show, and many other things w w kickoff show panelist. Sam welcome back. It's been a couple of months too long. Thanks for having me back. You know, I love doing your show. And I love doing it whenever you'll have me. On sounds good. Don't forget you can get this show ad free. A streamlined listening experience all for episodes of the white Keller show throughout the week. The post shows on the podcasts with the ads and plugs removed. That's for VIP members, only, and you can go VIP right now with our special sale three dollars and ninety nine. Cents for a full month. That's six dollars off the normal nine dollars ninety nine cents monthly rate. Go check out details at PW torch, VIP info dot com and enter coupon code sale three ninety nine that's sale. Three ninety nine. Get your first month for just three dollars and ninety nine cents. No further commitment can cancel anytime. You can also apply that six dollar discount to eight three month or one year subscription, if you would prefer that so go check it out PW torch, VIP info dot com coupon code sale three ninety nine no space just sale three nine nine. Choosing an energy company raises many questions, plus elation can answer all of them with energy solutions needs energy deficient. Simple inciteful inflexible. That's what makes constellation America's energy choice. Learn more constellation dot com slash energy this Wednesday. Enjoy early access to match us firms. Amazing black Friday deals getting printable. Black Friday doorbusters all day long like a ninety nine dollars Queen mattress nine dollar memory foam pillows and nine body pills. Plus get a free. You just basically do qualifying mattress up to a six hundred ninety nine dollars value free Korean and enjoy thanksgiving with your family, knowing you already got the best deals around your budget stretches further at mattress firm doorbuster offers available in stores only in while supplies. Last. Restrictions apply. Valid at participating locations only for over details. Visit mattress firm dot com slash sale. I mean, we could start at so many different places. Let's start with Daniel, Bryan. And what we saw on Tuesday night with his explanation for his heel, turn and one thing that I didn't talk on the fact on post show about that. I thought was was artful about Daniel Bryan is we saw him take a beating and be seemed as if he wasn't in Brock listeners. Leave. The announcers told the story maybe too heavily. I would argue too heavily in that. He wasn't in Leslie. And this was a mismatch means you're W W B champion, you know, he'd beat Asia styles. He's got a lot of wins. Even though he turned heel. I thought that was overplayed for drama for the second half of the metro to come back, but Brian on Tuesday night framed that in a way that undid some of the damage if you believe damage was done, which was I needed Lessner to beat the old Daniel Bryan outta me. And now, this is the new Daniel, Bryan. What what did you think of of? The turn was shocking on Tuesday the match itself was talking point. But in all got reframed, and we're all waiting for it to be reframed by Brian who we know is going to put a lot of thought into it. He was behind this turn or the idea of turning, and he's the type of person who we know from many for many reasons interviews he's done and his career. He thinks about this stuff. And he's got ideas. What did you think of the delivery on Tuesday night? I thought it was brilliant. I mean, I was so over satisfied with his delivery on Tuesday and just the justification and the explanation and the way he did it without blinking. And the way he did it without winking the way that that. This was the reality of the new Daniel, Bryan. And there was nothing in the delivery or what he said that made you pause and go now, and that doesn't really strike me. You know, whereas on raw we're still kind of waiting for a satisfying explanation as to why. Ambrose turned on Seth Rollins. Daniel Bryan was able to take ten minutes or however long his promo was and through. And it was it was a two pronged attack. If you will because I think that the style in which Daniel Bryan wrestled in at survivor series started to answer questions. Daniel Bryan started to answer questions. I think through character work and through the Daniel Bryan that we saw on Sunday. We already were explained that this was not the same Daniel Bryan that had just decided to hit AJ with a low blow that we were now being introduced to an entirely new person the way, he didn't do the yes chant. It's it's cemented that we are dealing with a he'll one hundred percent. He'll the is the way he mocked Brock listener the way he wasn't afraid of Brock. But also did sort of a chicken tight moves in order to get away from him. I thought that that sort of framed the Daniel, Bryan. Actor that we were dealing with and the explanation as to who he was idea that, you know, in those in those months of laying in a hyperbaric chamber trying to relieve himself of these brain injuries brought on by concussions. He realized what it means to fight for your dreams, and they'll fight for you. And this idea that you know, he delivers the fight for your dreams promo when he returns and still stays true to what he said in April in this. He'll incarnation of his character. I thought was great the idea that Daniel Bryan has been driven to the point of insanity because of the dreams that we've heard about so much and has developed a resentment not only for the fans not one hundred percent being behind him. But for the commentators in what they said, and like you said at the top of the show when he talked about beating the old Daniel Bryan out. Him. It did it acknowledged that what the commentators were saying at survivor series was true of the old Daniel, Bryan. And that that Daniel Bryan, the one that was sort of not talked about in the highest regard is gone. What is it? Like, there's been so many he'll turns the Daniel it seems like fans are going to be willing to Daniel Bryan. Explain why how you explain why. Daniel Bryan might succeed where Becky Lynch didn't. And we can talk about dynamics to this is probably going to succeed in that way. What are we learning from dean to an extent Daniel, Bryan, so far and the Becky Lynch situation, and maybe bring up some other examples of where he'll turn the fans go. Yup. We're willing to you in other. He'll turns the fans go, wait. Wait, this isn't what we want. Or we still like you. What what what's the difference here? And are there any landmines that WWE data Bryan should avoid that could offset that if you believe the premise that it's important that heels get boot? So I do I do like when he does get booed. You know, I think that a character like Becky Lynch actually turns into something else. And where originally, you know in August. This was a he'll that is getting cheered. Now, it's becoming this sort of, you know, while I guess technically still a he'll let's be honest, Becky. Lynch is well on her way to being the most popular star on the show, male or female. And I think that's where the stone co comparisons get drawn in whether it's fair not I kind of disagree with them. But that's a whole other conversation. I think that what's going on with Daniel Bryan is similar to what went on with Tomasz. Oh ciampa. So I think that the dean Ambrose he'll turn we're willing to boo dean Umbro's because number one since his return. He hadn't quite cemented himself as a baby face and number two. He did something so bad in the sense that he turned on Seth Rollins on the ninth dean Roman reigns. Made his announcement about his leukemia that it would almost be. I think on some level whether fans whether it's conscious whether or consciousness of conscious of it or not I think that fans won't cheer dean Umbro's because it is disrespectful to Roman reigns. And his contributions to the business to cheer dean Ambrose? I think I mean. Maybe I'm thinking too deep into it. But I think on some level whether fans know it or not that is what's going to stop people from cheering for dean Ambrose. Also, you've got a good guy like Seth Rollins that people really want to cheer. So they're okay booing dean Ambrose. I think when it comes to Daniel, Bryan. He's got the same thing that chump ahead in the sense that. We're booing because we want to be taken on this ride. I think when when you tell a story as well as Daniel Bryan telling this story. People are willing to do what you tell them. I think that we as fans want to be taken we trust the ride the Daniel. Bryan is introducing we wanna be taken on that ride. And if we cheer for Daniel Bryan right now, it's going to interrupt the story. I think that when you can hook people onto a story that they actually want to see they will react in turn because fans know on some level that if we blew Daniel Bryan this story that we're enjoying will continue. If we cheer Daniel, Bryan. It will upset this story and cause it to change directions. I also think that part, and I agree with what you said. I also think fans with Becky felt like whoa. We're not to the stage yet we were. We haven't gotten a chance to cheer the Vecchio Lynch that we love and have expressed that we love and we want to see her as a baby face with, Dan. Brian and to a lesser extent dean Ambrose, but it's there, I think fans were like, okay. We got what we wanted out of Daniel Bryan as a baby face, we we've a ride with them. And I don't know that they say it in so many words or think it in so many words, but there's a more willingness to let go of something after youth field you've gotten the use out of it that that you were that you hope for and I would think Dan Brown's baby face character sort of like, you know, in the keeper giveaway pile. I think it was in the giveaway pile like I think people were willing to part with it for something better. Even if it meant booing Daniel, Bryan. So I think that's at play along with AJ styles. Just being AJ styles to Brian is kind of like Seth is to dean, you gotta have a baby face who's more popular. To oppose them right out of the gate and Becky didn't have that. So there was that at play. And I also think there's just a faith that danube-rhine. If you're a Dan O'Brien fed is going to get more push. If he turns your right now that said, I don't think that there was great enthusiasm. Will we could go for brands? He'll turn I think people were like, okay, we gotta hear more was front for. This is very him. Is this just to keep protect ages styles. How do we reconcile that from doing another job to Brock? Why don't they just have AJ Brock? He's your fulltime guy. Smackdown. Needs a win. You got some at some point you want to send the message, the special attraction, Brock listener isn't the number one guy unless it's some legend. He's losing two or or Roman reigns. Type. So I think a lot of there's a lot of trepidation nervousness in shock last week. I think it's a justed itself as of the end of Daniel Bryan's promo last night. And this is me projecting. Because I haven't heard enough feedback to know to to say this for. Sure. But but my hunches fans are looking at the situation now going, okay? I think we're good at this. And I can do this this character does does that add to your answer in a way that you agree with? Yeah. It does. I think that I mean, and I think that fans were ready for it after the Brock match. I think that. The Brock match was so good that people like this Daniel, Bryan, you know, I I watched it from the floor in the arena, and it's it's super rare. The you get fans Channing same old. You know what? And then this is awesome. Within three minutes of each other. And it's all by design, and it's all this ride that they're on. And I think that that's when people start to trust the process. You know, I think I think you're dead on about people wanting to cheer AJ. And I also think that you're right about the idea that we weren't so sold on it after Daniel Bryan won the championship. And I think part of that is because Daniel Bryan's grant, he'll turn was kicking AJ styles in the balls as he put it on smack down. And we saw it already. I mean that way he said that too. I don't know. I can't remember exactly what it was that just remember popping for the inflection of balls. I was like no one's ever said it quite that way before I agree with you. But I think the because we saw Shinsegei do that after wrestlemainia and in the preceding whatever it was to pay per views after wrestlemainia as well. We were a little trepidation in the sense that you could are you the Shinsegei is still now in a better place than he was as a good guy. But he's certainly nowhere near the main event seen right now. And I don't think that anybody wanted Daniel Bryan to turn heel showed that he could take four steps back. Introducing the amazing iphone tenants, you'll love on T mobile but most loved and wires. It's the perfect way to stay connected to those you heart. Most fall in love with high phone S T mobile right now trade in the phone and you'll save three hundred dollars. Visit a store or call one eight hundred team. Service remaining balances to thank service and finance agreements required to seventy nine ninety nine down plus thirty per month times twenty four full price nine hundred ninety nine zero percents APR for well-qualified buyers plus tax on full price allow eight weeks for rebate. Introducing the amazing iphone tenants you'll love on team. Oh, but most loved and wires. It's the perfect way to stay connected to those you heart. Most fall in love with high phone on T mobile the right now trade in the phone and you'll save three hundred dollars. Visit a store or call one eight hundred team. Service remaining balances do all thank service and finance agreements required to seventy nine ninety nine doubtless thirty per month times twenty four full price. Nine ninety nine ninety nine zero percents APR for well-qualified buyers plus tax on full price allow eight weeks for rebate. Let me read an Email on this topic that got sent in for today's show. This is that can Texas. He said I noticed something over the last four months, and I wonder if w WBZ's picked up on it, Becky Lynch Amerson data, Bryan have all turned heel. Brian Ambrose are succeeding as he'll so far while Becky accidentally became the biggest baby face in the company, man or woman, the reason for this is one word irrationality, both Brian and Ambrose his actions where you're rational. There was no logical reason for them to do what they did. Whereas Becky had a reason for being frustrated. Most people could understand why she was frustrated in my opinion, the best deal turns are the ones where the fans are left asking. Why am I wrong? What do you think and all alleged to that a little bit because I think he's on to something where if people act he'll ish as part of if people act he'll in a way that would signify he'll turn, but fans are on their side and go. Yeah, you should be frustrate. You should act out. They're willing to put aside some other things that normally they would consider lines being crossed or undeserved people being attacked or whatever and go. Yeah. But I kind of see what's what caused him to snap. And with with dean and Brian. I think that is Deena Brian should have reason in their head that they did it that fans understand that should come to light. And you're still waiting for that with dean. It sounds like Brian. I think gave it to us, but fans should disagree that it's rash of rational reason to resort to what they're doing. Yeah. I think that's right. I think that the old. Sort of super villain model where any good villain. Then you need to be a super villain any any movie villain any bad guy. You have to understand their methods. Like, you have to understand that any good bad guy doesn't consider themselves of ad guy. Any good bad guy is working from a motivation where they feel wronged, and they feel like what they're doing is the right thing to do. And I think that that Email is right. I think that when you agree with the villain. It makes it so that you don't consider them Ville in either. And so far everything that Becky Lynch is said and done we agree with and whether we question the methods or not. We agree with all of it to the point where you know, who if Becky Lynch were truly a heal the person that put her on her ass should be the biggest good guy there is. And instead the fact that nyah jacks can Custer has turned nyah Jax into a bigger. He'll Becky Lynch is I think a key to is there. It's like ven diagram when it works. And I don't think it's just what Zach said, I don't think it's just like it's gotta be a number of things because I think like the ven diagram here is yes, we the fence have to sympathize with their frustration. But I also think there has to be that layer of that their baby face Ron has reached a point of diminishing returns. We're fans are willing to part with it for something better and third. You have to have a baby face opponent who fans like better in are willing to switch their allegiance to and I think those are kind of three key things where even if one of those missing might. But not as well. But you can't just have one of those factors at play. You can't turn back and have it work just because there's a baby face opponent. They like better you also have to have one or two of those other ingredients. So I think people want to kind of sometimes simplify it to one formula, and that works in this case, I think it's a good case study for because I mean, try to figure out why crowds react the way that they do CD to city country to country era to era month-to-month, even it's more complicated than one formula fits all. But I think we've hit on a lot of the things that that create a differentiation for why somebody who's kind of a casual watch would be like, I don't get it. Why can't Vincent man? Get fans to boot. Or maybe Brian James and Vincent company behind the scenes are going. Why are they cheering Becky but willing to boot dean, and Brian, and I think it it's always going to be multi-layered? But I think there are a few key factors that they should always have on their checklist. When they're thinking about a turn that they have to make sure they're checked or. Be worried that it won't work like the Becky pushback. Yeah. And I definitely think it's case by case. And you have to analyze the story that's being told in whether people are gonna agree with it or not and or even buy into it. But I don't think. Right now, you know, you could say in August that the Becky Lynch, he'll turn was not successful. But I don't think it's fair in November of two thousand eighteen to say that the character shift in Becky Lynch has not been successful. Like, I think that maybe it's not exactly the way they thought it would go, but reality is that they've whether they meant to or not created a new star in somebody that I honestly don't think they thought was going to be a star on this level ever. You know, they've theoretically stumbled upon a main event and what for wrestlemainia, and whether it was by mistake or on purpose. I think the were I think unsuccessful is the wrong word for what's gone on with Becky Lynch's character. Yeah. I think I think it's worked out well for Becky I would say that the strategy that went into turning her has been unsuccess-. Awful because it's had the opposite reaction. If I go bring my car in foreign oil change and the mechanic attempts to change the oil, and all of a sudden, it's like a Lamborghini. I'm like, okay. Okay. I don't really trust you with my cars. But thank you like, it's sort of right? Okay. Yeah. I have to say I feel like I because I was thinking the exact same thing. But I was thinking Ferrario. It's like actually what this is. Yeah. I was thinking to myself. You know, if that happened more than once, I would stay at this mechanic for the rest of my life. It seems great. Yes. And then we'd have to come up with a new word of successor unsuccess- because it wasn't unsuccessful changing of the oil because the mechanic set out to do something and utterly failed to accomplish his said task, but he's still into something better. So anyway, not to you. Now, you now you have a Lamborghini that needs an oil change. I wanna Nuba Catic altitude for sure, so I guess that's my point. Here is their goal. Their intent was for fans to be booming Becky by now, and they're not so from their mission standpoint, they weren't successful at their mission. That said it ended up in a good spot. And so that's good for Becky, I still would argue from maybe part of what got Becky over. No, Brian James doesn't get to take credit for this. I mean, maybe someday he can talk me out of it. But into believing that this was a master plan. Good luck. But but he doesn't get take credit for. But maybe to get to the point that becky's that there had to be a moment. We're fans got outraged that the Becky they loved look like it was being taken away in the end. It was a signal from the powers and WWE McMahon and company that that defense like you don't get us. You're you're going to push somebody. We don't like again and want us to Becky, and we're not we're not gonna take it anymore. And there's like this outrage among part of the fan base. Maybe that was part of rising getting Becky star to higher level. But Becky as a baby face did not. Have that? She was quirky, but she didn't have the edge in the Conor McGregor swagger that she has. Now, I I believe that they could look at Becky and say she needs to have a transformation, but it transformations don't have to be face to heal or heal deface. It can be something we book back in a way that causes a different version of Becky Lynch to come out that is according to traditional definitions, historically, he'll ish, but the Nelson never talked bad about her. She always works from a set of principles and her opponents are heels, but we give her everything else. That's made her popular right now, I think that would have been a smoother path to this point. And I think, but don't know that it would have been as successful as this one possibly. But I also think that part of this has to feel organic and part of this has to feel fan created, which is it does, you know? And I think it needs to have been given a direction by WWE that. Maybe wasn't the direction it actually went in. So that we could fully embrace it. And I think while you you can't say that the powers that be saw this one coming in orchestrated. It what you can say is they did something that they don't do all the time. And quite frankly, I don't think do most of the time, which is they rode the wave that they they listened. They changed course. And they they made decisions that made it so that we can get to a place now where the man is one of the most talked about things in wrestling. Yes. But if you're backing out of a garage, and if you're in the passenger seat and somebody's driving and they back out of the garage and every time they back out of the garage the river mayor hits the side of the garage door. And you tell them you need to turn the wheel a little more to the left when you back out. Okay. 'cause you're hitting the mirror and denting it and breaking it. Yes. Eventually, they turn left. But if they hit. If they hit the mirrors as backing out of the garage seven times before the eighth time. They finally listen to you. I'm still not quite sure I'm willing to Pat him on Pat him on the back and go great job. They they fought this Becky thing weeks after people were going. Are you kidding me? In the sense of the nounce, here's in their credibility. And I'm a big I'm so big on announcer credibility. I think it's so important of the main voice you hear at fans feel connected to them, and that they're credible in that they're not part of a propaganda machine that's trying to push them against their will. And with Becky took them too long. I really believe I don't think they stayed with the machine being trying to get fans to Becky too long to the point that it helped Becky, but it hurt the brand at hurt fans faith that the brand wasn't tried to manipulate them and strong arm them against their own clear inclination to want to embrace Becky and Heffer against he'll so they could cheer Becky and not feel that they were fighting the storyline. That was being pushed on them. Yeah. I think wrestling is different than parking cars in the sense that I maybe it's just me. Maybe because I'm. A fairly optimistic wrestling fan that when you know, they can go week after week of saying becky's, a he'll Beck is a he'll becky's a he'll bud when they end raw the way they ended raw with Becky bloody. And in the crowd, and that's the last shot. And that's our hero shot all is forgiven for me. And maybe that's maybe that's just me. And maybe that's a flaw. And maybe that's what makes me, you know, a Mark in the deepest sense of the word. But I kind of when I get one of those magic moments for me all is forgiven, and I go, okay. As long as we're on the right path. Now, I don't need to talk about what happened before. There's a reason we invented things like same day delivery and PB and J in the same jar. We'd love convenience, which is what makes Permanente so special. We offer healthcare coverage together. So rather than having your doctor over here and your insurer. There we provide quality healthcare and coverage under one roof. Bring you up for other important tasks like making a quick sandwich. Kaiser Permanente together, we thrive visit KP dot org slash integrated from this and hopefully with the Midland states incorporated. Twenty one St. Rockville, Maryland, two zero eight five two rents upon a morning. There was a freshly brewed McAfee coffee. He was made with one hundred percent arabica beans yet. Something was missing. Fear not in the distance assessment of the dead. The sunrise in west for breakfast. The perfect pair at McDonald's and mornings were happy forever. After. Right now. Get one dollar any size coffee in two dollars sausage mcmuffin with egg off the one two three dollar menu. I participation may vary. Kennedy combined with any other offer combo meal. I guess the key is is is the pros. They took with Becky something that can the Kennedy repeated, but with less collateral damage in do they know what made it get to that point. So that they can not make the same mistakes or maybe with tweaks given the specifics of the next circumstance learn from what happened with Becky, and the key is did it take them so long to learn that it felt like there was some stubbornness going on. And but but you're right. I mean, eventually you give them credit for doing the right thing. They I think a lot of fans would argue they didn't do the right thing which on CNN not turning heel. And that's a debate for another day. And I, but I understand the the notion of mad if they would've turned seeing inhale at one point in the question for years and years was who's that baby face who will take the spot of sina or rains, they had the baby faces if they just embraced different guys and turn ratio to it would have been a cash pretty machine so people can point to instances and smaller versions of two that weren't quite so. High profile in this case looks like they're doing the right thing. No, we got to see where she lands come wrestlemainia. Because Ronda Rousey on Monday seemed like I don't know this for sure, but I've watched only to be long enough to see messages being sent and the mentality of that company. Sometimes rutta Rousey seemed to be get Ron and Becky were just kind of going at each other on Twitter, but Rhonda's seemed to be doubting Becky Lynch for not defending or title. She was hurt because Rhonda showed up at Robert and said, I'm here and I wanted to spend my title 'cause that's champion student. No matter what I could have bought a fights. And I never did. Well, that's a good baby face promo. But in the context of Becky just did not show up at survivor series and Charlotte dead it to me. I look at it through the lens of is run a batting Becky because doctors won't let her wrestle even though Becky wanted to wrestle like I wasn't quite sure what to make of that. I think all rules are off when it comes to Ron and Becky they're just going to war, and I think it's fun to watch. But what do you think the Saikal? Of that was all about of Rhonda, San I'm a fighting champion went if becky's a baby face, and they really want. Rhonda. I think right now to be a baby face that seemed to be asking fans to choose sides. And when I hear those two arguments, I go I'm kind of on Becky side. She wanted to fight and she couldn't. So why is Ron to seem to be implying that she's more of a fighter than Becky in that promo? Well, you know, it's interesting, and I don't even know how intentional it is. But I maybe the WWE realizes that when you put Becky and and Rhonda in a match eventually nobody's cheering. Rhonda. It's just not gonna happen and quite frankly leading to survivor series. There's a lot of a lot of what goes on in. Rhonda's promos for better or worse has a bully element to it. The millennial man, you know, avocado toast, skinny jeans stuff that feels like a jock in high school bullying the nerds, which by the way. Wrestling fans, I feel like far away. And I don't think that I insult you. When I say this most of us, we're not the jocks we were kind of a little bit more nerdy about this stuff. And so or at least a lot of us were. So I do wonder if part of that is not intentional or they're just kind of allowing Rhonda to go with some of her instinct now, you know, I think that it sells the story. In the sense that the wrestling fans that Ryan is isolating are gonna cheer for Becky anyway. So, you know, I don't think it's destructive for Rhonda to do that. But you know, I do think that she was taking shots at Becky that technically were unfair. But at the same time, you know, Becky is skirting on this line where we're clearly talking about wrestling, which is a predetermined sport. And she's bringing up her losses in UFC, which is kind of not the same thing and unfair. So you know, I think that my gut coming off of survivor series and listening to the promo that Rhonda did on raw were number one. They're trying to remind the raw audience that Rhonda is a good guy. So if Becky is not there, and Charlotte is not there. Okay. I understand you're going to cheer for them. But they're not here. They're on smackdown. So while Rhonda's on raw please for the love of God cheer, Ronda Rousey and Rhonda did win the crowd over with fighting champion promo. So I think what she one of over to because she's not she's going against nyah Jack's. Yeah. Mitch you say as a credit tonight for being he'll, but it's also Rhonda's the surrogate to get back at ni- for what night did to Becky so Rana, getting cheered is Becky getting cheered when Rhonda's against nyah. That's part of this interesting. Dynamic that's going on in the women's division. I wonder if Ron would just going against ni- in Niagara had hurt. Becky, if what the dynamic what the dynamic would be, you know, it's interesting. You know, I think they still could get boozed for Niagara. I think that's what the the teaming with to Meena is all about, you know, I think they just stumbled onto some gold with fans being upset that nyah jacks can cost Becky Lynch. But I think that I think they still could have cemented her as a heel with the to Meena connection because people look at to menas a bad guy. I also think the, you know, the way Rhonda was talking Becky with to Meena nevermind. I think that the way Rhonda was talking they're they're almost leaving themselves open to do either the Rhonda Charlotte or the Rhonda Becky match at wrestlemainia. You know, part of me thinks that the WWE is aware that they may have stumbled onto some gold with this Becky Lynch thing, but they're hedging their bets in the sense that okay, we have gold with Becky Lynch right now. Does this last for six months? I think if you asked me, I would say absolutely it'll last as long as you allow it to last, and I think most wrestling fans feel that way. But I think WWE is hedging their bets, and allowing this thing between Rhonda and Charlotte to also be something that WWE fans wanna see. So that they can kind of choose a little bit closer to wrestlemainia. What is they're actually going to do because right now, we're open to either getting the Charlotte. Rhonda rematch. The becky. Ronda match or some kind of triple threat scenario. So I just thought that was interesting because not only did we get that non-finish at survivor series. But it was specifically said at on raw Charlotte, I'm gonna get you. I'm coming for you. This is not over. So both the Charlotte. Rhonda and the Becky Rhonda stories are continuing as we speak. Let's do read another Email here. This is Patrick from Australia my questions in relation to Charlotte and WWE's booking in general after being clearly booked as a heel on Sunday framed as a heel with the opening video package. The crowd still cheer like a baby face to me. It's becoming more a more common. Kurds W W B over the last couple of years. It seems that the so-called WWE universe. It's only willing to truly get behind any character that's perceived as a bad s and is willing to cross certain lines like Charlotte did on Sunday. This point is further highlighted when these characters were put up against wrestlers that are perceived to be corporate favorites such as Roman reigns. Or now, Ronda Rousey, do you think this is a reflection? To the fans desire to return, the W W B product to where it was approximately fifteen years ago, we're storylines. We're always edgy and limits were constantly being pushed also do you believe that a black that black and white booking? Feels and baby faces is debt loved the show, Patrick from Australia, Osama, I think that's another part of the equation when I talk about the ven diagram that it's not universal because Daniel Bryan Dana Brown was super over with Kane and fighting the shield the shield where the bad asses Brian would say was bad us, but the fence totally embraced him. So it's not a hard and fast rule, and we could come up with other exceptions to. But it sure does help. I mean, this is I would even point to Vince, McMahon's, ruthless, aggression speech. I guess post attitude era, I think fans have been conditioned by watching WWE to believe that ruthless aggression is to be cheered. We've had baby face. And he'll announcers Booker T on kickoff panel shows just saying it doesn't matter. How you went as long as you went to just get the job done. And I think fan sort of are like, okay, we're in on that which makes booking more difficult sometimes because the moral wines that that if had you created that framework when they get crossed it's easier to try to then turn somebody. He'll when they're decrying he'll uncalled for actions. But WWE, I think in the narrative is sort of told fans in the in this world that sorta for what's this or you're not grabbing the brass ring if you if you just play by the rules and try to win fair and square. So I think fans have got mixed signals. And so now, yeah, they are going for that just I of bad ass in that. That's that gets a reaction right now. Again, I don't think there's any one simple answer. But what do you think what Patrick had to say? Well, I think it's too. I think there's a couple of great points that he brought up. I don't agree with the bad ass thing in the sense that I don't think that bad ass by itself means we cheer them because I mean, it just in recent memory AJ styles is not a bad ass. He's a good guys great wrestler when he's in the ring he feels like he's going for that brass ring. And he and he gives it his all, and he's got heart and everything but Samoa Joe is more of a bad ass in AJ styles. And we boost him. Oh, Joe and cheer AJ dean Ambrose is certainly more of a bad ass than Seth Rollins. But we cheer south Rowan and we dean Ambrose appropriately. I think that the good guy bad guy. He'll baby face relationship is not dead. But I don't think I think that like you said, I think we're dealing with the van diagram in a lot of cases. I don't think did the baby face. He'll relationship is dead. But I also don't think that everybody on the roster falls into one of those categories. We watch. It was really clear on smackdown. Charlotte did not turn heel, Charlotte. What Charlotte did at the pay per view, certainly changed her character, and at the pay per view it felt like a heel thing. But Charlotte came out on smackdown. The fact that she was cheered was embraced. And she beat to heels. The iconic are one hundred percent heels. So the idea that Charlotte her heroin came out beat to heels and embrace the cheers that was not a he'll turn she's less of a baby face than she was walking in. Because you know, she got frustrated at the fact that she wasn't going to win the match necessarily and resorted to violence and weapons. But I think that Charlotte is I think that they're learning from Becky in the sense that okay, we just tried to turn her he'll straight. He'll and that certainly didn't work. So. What are we going to do with Charlotte here? How are we going to make it? So that Charlotte doesn't look like the golden girl that she doesn't look like the corporate champion. Well, it's hard to avoid Rhonda being the corporate champion. She's a celebrity, and she's always going to be. So maybe we play with that a little bit. And wait, maybe we make Charlotte into a bad ass, but realistically, she's not a bad ass. He'll she's just a bad ass wrestler. Now, Becky Lynch did not intend to have her face covered in blood, and you should not have a face with any blood after you're done shaving in the morning in part of that comes down to the quality of razor us. And that's why endorse Harry's razor. There's a weight to the razor handle the fit and finish. And balance to the shaving experience that is unmatched with anything I've ever tried before. And I'm glad that Harry's us a sponsor of this program. So you can try them out for free. There's a thirteen dollar trial set that comes with everything you need for a close, comfortable shave a weighted, ergonomic handle, five blade razor with a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, rich, lathering shave gel, and a travel blade cover. Go to harrys dot com slash p w torch to take advantage of this trial set. You got a thirteen dollars value trial set by going to harrys dot com slash p w torch. That's harrys dot com slash w torch to redeem your offer. And if you like the trial set, Harry's can offer you a good deal going forward. They offer their blades at a price much lower than the leading brand by. Selling direct to you over podcast like this just two dollars per played compared to four dollars or more. If you don't love their shave, let Harry's no within thirty days, and they'll give you a full refund. So go check it out. Get your trial set a thirteen dollars value at harrys dot com slash p w torch. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon prime? Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies TV shows using free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offer subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers made undis- reduce speeds versus some t mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon prime? Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three. Lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offers subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers made undis- reduce speeds for some t mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions. So on Sunday when Charlotte took out the candlestick against Ronda Rousey and Cole said why did you do that a five star match unfolding here in Charlotte, flare grant, the damn candle stick and hits Ronda Rousey with it. And and he says this is a minutes several minutes later for the beat down. This is a sad moment. And you've court gray saying, she realized she couldn't beat Rousey. So she used a weapon in Cole said. Yeah, it wasn't even match up to that point. She didn't need to grab the weapon and is upset that Charlotte. Use those tactics. I think Cole said, oh, yeah. He said something happened to Charlotte flare tonight. There can be no explanation for this. That was an attempt to turn Charlotte. He'll or that was a were gonna pretend we're trying to turn her. He'll so that fans rebel, and we create a new Becky Lynch like are you saying that was a master plan on Sunday. Or you're saying they're nimble enough to adjust by Tuesday to another complete utter failure of an attempt to turn somebody heel that fans rejected because they ended up doing Ronda Rousey who they clearly including Rhonda wanted expected to wanted to be cheered by the end of that segment. I think it's probably more the second. I mean, I don't I don't because it certainly at that paper view. She was painted as a heel and certainly on smackdown. She was painted as something else. Not a he'll so, and I think you can kind of get away with that when it's just one night because you can always say that the announcers read the Scituate shin wrong, and this was Charlotte's motivation. And like we said earlier if it's a motivation. We agree with. She's not a he'll if it's to be a he'll it has to be a motivation, delete understand. But we don't agree with once you re with the motivation or can sympathize with the motivation, that's not a villain anymore. So, you know, I think that realistically if I guess that we got to smackdown and said, wait, you know, I don't think we want to turn Charlotte into a he'll I don't think it's gonna work. We don't have Becky Lynch on TV. So we can't do Becky Lynch is a face in Charlotte. As a heel. So let's not do that actually. And let's kind of adjust and just make Charlotte a little bit more of a bad ass. And you know, maybe we can actually get the fans on her side. Which which I think is what's happening. I watched smackdown. And I wasn't sure if they were sure yet I feel like I mean, I joked about it. It was like a substitute teacher showed up and goes. Okay. So what chapter are will be on the kids didn't tell her like I felt like Vince had the week off and didn't show up. And everyone's like, so what has been swat us to do. And somebody said, well, I think he wants to this. Well, we can't re we texted. We didn't hear back from him. I don't know. So should we do this like, let's just hedge? Let's let's do a little bit of this and a little bit of that was Charlotte. Let's do a little bit of this a little bit. That was Shane and miss it. Like, I didn't smackdown felt like it was sort of in a holding pattern because they wanted to sleep on it over the holiday weekend and figure things out. And that's what I got show because when she came out, she wasn't slapping hands on on Twitter. After she was being he'll ish in a traditional sense. And yet in this segment. You're absolutely right. She was booked against to heels and was booked to to beat them. But even that felt kind of shoddy and execution like there was just that awkwardness. When painting spent several minutes deciding whether she's going to get in the ring or not, and there's these awkward moments of silence. And she does even though she has no reason to agree to do it like it was just an awkward smack dab in. So I say that 'cause I'm a little hesitant even re too much into what they did was Charlotte because I'm wondering if they weren't just hedging, and they weren't quite sure yet where they want to go with Charlotte. And if they wanted to be a Twitter, let me introduce this Email in a conversation about this topic to this is from Brian B. Hey, wait, and Sam I why wasn't the I want to read a second question first because it's what we're talking about short s for Charlotte's perceived lack of authenticity. I've noticed on a number of interviews. She stated she would like to be as confident in real life as her character is portrayed on TV. I try to be that character shows especially in a promos in it's being seen as in authentic. So I think another key to this diagram that we're talking about in Charlotte. It's going to it's going to be more of a challenge for her than it is for Becky because when when Becky walks out with Conor McGregor stri. That's swagger. She's owns the ring. She owns the microphone. She owns the crowd. She owns the moment. She knows what she's going to say. It's coming from the heart. And it there's no skip. There's no beat skipped. They'll skip beats Charlotte on Tuesday. It wasn't good. I mean, it was it was a rough segment. It was in the ring. It was rough. Their light was shown the moves weren't tight. It's just was an off night. I thought there was an off night for. Connex and mixed messages were being sent I thought was Charlotte compared to what was going on Sunday. I don't think she's found her stride yet. And I don't think what's being written for and how she's being steered and directed is serving her yet. No, one of the great things about watching. Pro wrestling, no matter what company it is the going on a journey with wrestlers Charlotte's on a journey. And I don't think she's confident as Brian is bringing up in the Email on what that lending places for her yet in we're watching it, and it can be a little painful along the way. Yeah. You know, I think that there's a lot to that. And I think that that that you may be right. There may be some hedging going on. And we may be still in the process of figuring out exactly where the Charlotte story is going. You know, I do think that Charlotte is in a better position now than she was, you know, all summer, I think that that Charlotte was damaged by the Becky Lynch, what happened with Becky Lynn. I think Becky Lynch's success. And the alternate reject in Becky Lynch being he'll caused some fan resentment towards Charlotte fair or unfair. And I think that Charlotte is just kind of getting out of that. And what she did it survivor series allowed fans to start appreciating Charlotte again number one because it was compelling, and it looked good. But number two because she was doing it in the name of Becky Lynch, which is actually what? Talking about about nyah Jackson earlier, you know, Becky, and the and the story of Becky is hitting a lot of different people because it's it's such a huge thing. And I also think that as an audience we're not used to seeing Charlotte in somebody else's shadow. Charlotte has been portrayed as the Queen of the women's division. Whether she's been champion or not the entire time. She's been on the main roster. There has never been a moment where the conversation about who is the best has not alternately lead back to Charlotte. You know, I don't think that people when Oscar and Charlotte went will on one at wrestlemainia. There might have been some debate as to who was going to win the match, but I think everybody has considered Charlotte the John sina of the women's division the entire time. She's been there. And I think that all of us are in this kind of weird adjusting period because Becky Lynch just showed up, and this is a superstar like there has never been in the women's division. There has never been a female superstar that has gotten the kind of traction. And the kind of attention that Becky Lynch has intellect as three months. It's I don't think and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you've followed this probably longer than I have. But to my knowledge there has never been a female to get the kind of traction and attention that Becky is getting right now. And I think that that's causing us to reassess the way we play Charlotte in our minds. Yeah. No, no. I think it's an astute point that Becky getting over the way that she has has caused a recalibration of everything of how the perception of all of it isn't. There comes a point. And it's part of I think what Becky is doing with the man catchphrase. I think it works under levels. But Becky sorta saying I'm not the biggest breakout star in the women's division ever or inex- number of years or right, now, whatever the framework is. I think I think the conversation gets to the point. It's sorta like right now, they're like, oh who's the best player in the WNBA and who's the best player in women's basketball? And there's going to be a great player in the NBA who says in the WNBA who says let's just talk about men's and women's professional basketball, periods that union say spot, tennis, any sport where there's men and women compete at a high level in high in high profile ways in professional sports, the caveat. You don't need to say when you once you have a breakout star in that sport. That's a female at some point the question stops becoming a she the biggest female, it just becomes issue. The biggest man or woman in her sport. Becky right now is the biggest most is the best most I say the the hottest breakout act in the early stage that WWE ES had since either Daniel, Bryan or stone cold Steve Austin, you might have to go back that far. That's they're onto something here. And I think fans are nervous that they won't know what to do with it but recalibrate six, but this should raise the water level for Rhonda not species getting in the way of Rhonda. I think fans are nervous that WWE. Having lived through the Roman reigns situation with punk on the tail end of pumps around. But especially with Daniel, Bryan. And Seth Rollins too in the sense it when Seth came back red hot at extreme rules copiers. Go fans wanted set to be the baby face, and they turned him heel kept going with Roman. So they kind of live through that. I think they're nervous and rightfully so going recalibrate. But let's let what's going on with Becky raised the level of Rhonda raise the level of Charlotte. Create a new star with nyah jacks. Everything that's possible in that be. Don't look at Becky is getting in the way of things, but helping things. Yeah. And I think that that is that's the healthy way to look at it. And I think that there's more optimism about the Becky Lynch story. Then there has been in the WWE in a long time. Because like we said earlier the WWE appears to be riding this wave. But I think that that is where it gets complicated that. WWE is presented superstars the way. They've presented superstars for a long time. In the in the sense that you know Roman reigns. We're not riding a wave with Roman reigns. Where we're this is the guy whether you like it or not this is the guy he's going to be in the main event, and before that it was John CENA and Boone on the women's side. It was Charlotte. And I it was kind of set in stone. What was going to happen ultimately? And we've finally after all these years, and it probably you could argue that Daniel sense Daniel, Bryan. But really Daniel Bryan was a blip in the matrix. Honestly, because you know, that was that sort of Daniel Bryan was this moment where that wasn't supposed to happen. But we made it happen other than that. You do have to go back to kind of a pre John sina era and talk about things then, but it does feel like WWE with Becky is. Finally, getting behind the same thing that this wave of momentum is. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon prime? Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offer subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers made undis- reduce speeds for some t mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions. We came looking for real main winter, and we found it we were headed to the lodge. The fire really the only thing I wanted was some hot cocoa and one more foot of snow. I forgot that days like this last longer than we seek this trail these woods these mountains. These stories they start with us. They stay with us plan. Your main winter can away at visit main dot com. Tomorrow on interview Friday here on the Wade killer person podcast for running a best stove interview. That I conducted several years ago was stone cold Steve Austin talking about a key time in his rise to become a top star. We kind of marched through week by week month by month a really key stretch in his rise. And it's a fascinating conversation. A fascinating interview. Hope you'll check that out. It's worth a realistic. If you missed it. It's absolutely worth a first time. Listen, so download our show tomorrow for that. Don't forget you can follow me on social media. If you haven't yet at the weight Keller and follow our brand at PW torch on Twitter, also on Instagram at Pedo with your torch and on Facebook, Facebook dot com slash w torch. You can also find me on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash Wade, Keller torch, check out the POW torch, live casts, also just search PW torch or pro wrestling torch. And you can check out the latest episodes of the. Life cast covering impact enacts t R wage. Emma may talked for pro wrestling fans and wrestling night in America the post survivor series, call in show, plus our weekly best of edition and the deep dive with rich fan. Just search PW torch or pro wrestling torch in subscribe for free a new show every day on the VW torch live cast podcast feet and check out Peter with your torch dot com for the latest daily updates at a Tores live, TV coverage live pay per view coverage how show reports and more that's p w torch dot com. Same thing for the world of enemy. Our sister website with managing editor. Mike Kisco is Emma may torch dot com. Go check out his work, and that of the anime torch team with their breaking news, live coverage, roundtables editorials and other special features and p w podcasts dot com features written. Recaps analysis and reviews of pro wrestling personality, hosted podcasts, it is a loaded with summaries of podcasts, you frankly, might not have. Time to get around to. But this will help you decide which ones to prioritize we've got the latest reviews of the latest addition of something to wrestle with including his take on survivor series ninety eight who wrote rocks. He'll turn storyline. The big boss man's major screw-up take teams who didn't have chemistry together. And why Vince McMahon wrote a letter of apology to Steve Austin? That's one of the top stories or right now on PW podcasts dot com, plus the review of the latest Jim cornet show. Steve Austin, not Sam wrestling's interview with David Arquette. He talked about the WWF wrestler who originally helped him train if other wrestlers took him seriously why he came back to the business and his thoughts data Bryant's he'll turn very topical. Plus primetime was Sean Mooney with Vickie Guerrero as his guests to review of that. Also talk his Jericho review of his latest show with Kevin Kelly recap and review of eighty three weeks with Eric Bischoff. Plus Booker T Jim Ross Ron Fuller's stud cast killing the town and more go check it out. Pete w podcasts. Dot com. It's absolutely worth a daily. Visit to catch up on what you're missing out on other podcasts that's p w podcasts dot com. If you attend a live wrestling event, please send it to us. Send us a report. I should say not the whole event that'd be impossible. But send us a report of what happened PW torch at POW torch dot com, any of you you attend. Whether it's W W B, how show ring of honor live event and x t PWG new Japan. Indy. Wrestling event with big names on it. Send us a report PW torch at PW, torch dot com, simply number the matches and say who beat whom and include a few details on the match, and maybe some notes on what you thought of the show, and how will attended it was that's PW torch at PW, torch dot com. We also welcome news tips at PW torch at POW, torch dot com, if B and says upcoming matches, you get an Email blasts from them about something that we might want to pass along to our readers or anything else. I wanted with professional wrestling that might be newsworthy for our website report. Or for us to just know here on the show, that's PW torch at p w torch dot com, we have to call the show the deep dive of the women's division. But another question as far as that goes wrestlemainia. What's your prediction, or we're going to get a triple threat, which I'm strongly hoping we don't because I want them to just have to really strong singles matches. I think fans would rather see a one on one match. They really wanna see and not have a third factor in it. That's my editorial comment in the midst of asking you what you want to see. And also where you think they go because they clearly have Charlotte deemed the top woman in the division until Rana showed up Rhonda showed up. Now, there's two dream matches supposed to be Rhonda, Charlotte. They had to give it away. They didn't have to chose to give it away on short notice mess mess around finesse Charlotte's character a little bit try to figure out where she fits into the Becky Rhonda dynamic, but Rhonda Charlotte, excuse me, Ronda Rousey, Becky Lynch is the number one match right now that fans wanna see more than throwing NIO or Charlotte into the mix. They have to deliver on that at some point. And I think wrestlemainia should be the place. But do you agree with that? And where do you think w WBZ's headed? Well, it's tough for me. I try to stay away from predictions just because as you know, it's a difficult game to play with WWE. It's because they can change at a moment's notice. And it's just kind of impossible to sit there and predict things I think that it's a little more constructive to do what you just didn't. You just kind of talk about what you think should happen. And where do you want it to go? And for me, I think that what should and needs to happen is dude the Becky Lynch, Ronda Rousey match with no distractions at wrestlemainia, and the reason for that is that Becky Lynch versus Ronda Rousey is a main event like in going into survivor series on Monday up until Monday of last week. I was saying, and I went on XBox podcast before the Becky Lynch announcement was made that she wasn't going to be at the show and said that really doesn't make sense to close survivor series with anything other than Becky Lynch versus Ronda Rousey and by far. And again, this is when it was AJ verse. Brock listeners still, but by far Becky Lynch versus Ronda Rousey was the most anticipated match of survivor series by a by mile on. So I I truly think that the matches now even more an -ticipant it'd that that people are dying for this thing. And I think that this is a match that could main event wrestlemainia in a way that you're not symbolically letting women main Ania, you're actually having women main event wrestlemainia that this is the natural and true main event that this is the match that people are buying it. Take it to see it's and it's really a rare situation because not only is it the story. That's got everybody all wrapped up not only is Becky Lynch quickly becoming the most popular wrestler in WWE, but you've got that celebrity involvement that every wrestlemainia needs. You've got your Ronda Rousey that suddenly. Also makes this mainstream things there's no reason not to put it in the main event, and quite frankly, a triple threat or a fatal four way where Charlotte or nyah Jackson's involved or God forbid a tag team, which would be the worst thing you could ever do is not the main event of wrestlemainia, I think even making it a triple threat where it's Rhonda and Charlotte and Becky that's would could still headline. But at that, headlined wrestlemainia it would be more about women headlining wrestlemainia than it would be about the match itself. And you'd be taking away a special moment, and you would be taken away. What would be the sort of career maker of Becky Lynch? It. Yeah. I agree. Everything you said Becky Lynch walking out as the. However, it structured as a challenger to Rhonda is Siham punk walking out Chicago against John CENA. I it is the match that has to go on last. It's going to be in an electric atmosphere. It's going to be when you watch a big U of C show when it's a one it's not a one fight show. Not that the undercard sucks. But that it's clear there's one match above and beyond all others that is antiquated. It's a dream fight. Both guys are healthy and ready, and it's time to break the tension and ring the bell and fight. And that's what Becky Ron it can be and it's one of those things too where just WWE doesn't need to do a lot for that to happen. You know what I mean like that? It's like, you just almost kind of stay out of the way, you know, Ronda needs to be steered a little bit just in the sense that she's new to this. And it's going to be a different situation that you probably initially anticipated. But obviously she's been under the spotlight and just. Just tell Ronda just be yourself. And let things let the crowd go where they go. Because this Becky thing is hot, and you have a dream opponent for wrestlemainia in that there's somebody who is in our universe perceived as being in your category of a star. But a different kind of star. This is going to be magic. And you're gonna look back on this as a special moment, and it might be all downhill from here. Like, it could be that special. So I mean, it could be great for years to come. But it might be, you know, not downhill, but on a lower plateau this could be so special. So I I'm with you. This is this is a match where it's not a token. Well, you know, you, and I have had these talks what match can go on last. Well, one of these five or one of these three it could be a case where it is. This is the singular obvious match to headline with. Yeah. And again, not a symbolic NADA. Hey, look at what we're doing WWE. We're letting the women do this. We're letting the women do that. Like, this isn't this is what the fans. Pay to see. And honestly Becky, and this is something that I had are on Sirius XM show the Friday before volition and this show I do on Sirius XM is not a wrestling show to mainstream show. And so when wrestlers come on the interviews are inevitably different. I'm their interviews that I'm trying at least to have appeal to a mainstream audience, and what I noticed with Becky Lynch, which is something that almost that very few superstars can do is that she had the ability to stay in character and stay within the story line and still be real life. You know, still not have my audience sit there and go. What are we listening to fake wrestling for this is stupid? You know to actually be able to talk about who she really is. And what she likes Imbaba and having casual Fun Radio conversation without ever being out of character. Becky. It's not gonna be this thing where you know, the mainstream morning news show is you're saying, you know, Ronda Rousey, the big stars got this match with this WWE person. Becky Lynch is going to be able to do every media appearance. And she is the one that's going to be able to talk people into believing who don't already believe that. This is the biggest fight that Ronda Rousey is ever had. And that's what Becky Lynch is capable of doing as many main events as Rhonda Rousey had in UFC, Becky Lynch, I believe we'll be able to convince a mainstream audience that this is the biggest most important fight that Ronda Rousey, he's ever had or life. Becky is smart. And and that really helps I mean like what you just described and being able to pull off that that interview with that different audience and still come across as plays into. You know, another thing that makes somebody hard to successfully turn heel. If the fans connect with them, which is a sense of authenticity. And I think that is something that Charlotte's searching for and I think it's there somewhere in there just yet to be fully discovered and then and then framed in shape for for for a wrestling show, and it's a journey that she's still on Becky is authentic fans since it. They like the authentic city that they see. And then Becky is smart enough to not let anything get in the way of that. And so it's been a really fun and unexpected story of twenty thousand. I mean, we always knew Becky was popular fans liked her. There was a bond there that went beyond her push a crowd reaction that went beyond how she was presented on television. And now she's in a position in part because of Ronda Rousey in like, you said the celebrity factor to reach a level that that a year ago. I don't think anybody dreamed of remember when we were all waiting for the natty, Ronda Rousey, Mitch. Yes. It's still might have. I do feel kind of bad that Mickey James got fed Iran on Monday. I sort of feel like they could have gotten more out of that. I know Mickey's been played as more of a sidekick. But that I don't know. I was I was hope like that. It's not like a top ten list of things that are let down to Twenty-eight teen. But then I get why they did it and why it was Mickey. And it's a compliment to her that they put her out there, and that's hurting sense. But oh, man. But now in Italian you think about the matches at Ron on the list, and it's like it just this blows now Becky just blows them all away. Yeah. Absolutely. If we may shift away from the women's division for just a moment and talk about what's that for what? Yes, I know. Let me ask this. And we'll work our way backwards from this. What do you want to see is the wrestlemainia? I'm not asking to predict Sam what do you want to see the men's wrestlemainia main events. What what what's in the cards that can be played that you'd like to see based on the way things are laid out right now. What what excites you or do? You think is the best choice. I mean, it's a good question. You know, I think that as exciting. As dent the new Daniel, Bryan is I think we just talked ourselves out out of a Daniel Bryan misery match at wrestlemainia. You know, I think we talked ourselves out of the crowning moment of Daniel, Bryan. Getting to beat them is for the championship, or whatever, you know. I had in my mind. I think that that's changed everything. You know, I it seems like we're gonna see Braun versus Brockett Royal rumble, which kind of cancels that out for wrestlemainia. And I don't know if that means that you know, personally, what I'd like to see is Seth Rollins versus Brock listener at wrestlemainia. I, you know, I I mean, I think that even if you have you know, I wouldn't mind just having them trade off like I think it could be interesting to have a he'll dean Ambrose versus Braun strowman in sort of a semi what maybe it's an intercontinental title. Whatever it is have he'll dean Ambrose skew off that way because we're going to you know, I would say it's a pretty safe bet that Roman ran and will certainly not be back in time for wrestlemainia. But. I think that's a possibility. But that's really just so that we can get them both away and put Brock Lesnie and Seth Rollins together. I think that Seth is the person who is really deserving and capable and the guy to define the universal championship. You need a guy. Right. I think we're all rains in the heads of the people that WWE was going to be the person who defined that championship. Because I think we've talked about it before that the universal championship has been around for I guess three years and has not been defined as anything, you know, Finn. Ballor was the guy originally pegged to define that title. He was injured. Kevin Owens didn't define the title because he was a bad guy champion and was chicken with it which he did his job. And he was great. But did in WWE the way the company has always been a good guy. By defines the Idaho, HOGAN, define that the WWE championship. And then you could argue that Shawn Michaels defined it for a period of time and John seen defined it and stone cold Steve Austin defined it. And and and that stuff that universal championship because it's been passed around to, you know, Brock Leser and Goldberg and really the only active good guys that have held. It have only held it for a very very limited time without any sort of substantial story behind it. So I think that that's really what I'm looking at going into wrestlemainia is who is the guy that it's finally going to have the opportunity to define the universal championship. And for me. It's death Rollins versus Brock listener. And even if you're sitting there going, well, that's not quite as big a matches. It could be. That's okay because you got Becky versus Rhonda in the main event. So why not give the semi main to set Rollins walking out of giant? Stadium with the universal champion, Geno. I like it a lot, and I don't really like another match more. I mean, like, I don't know what the runner up is the second choice when it comes to. If Brock wrestles wrestlemainia. Now, I'm not sure Brock Russell's at wrestlemainia. I mean, I guess that depends on his his UFC scheduled. If he's if he's going to have a UFC fight before then or an or is scheduled to have UFC fight very shortly. After that. I'm not sure he breaks away from training or can be counted upon be injured or or medically cleared to be there. But if he so I just don't know the status of that. I don't know we know that yet. But if Brock's in play then Brock retains against Ron, and and then Seth gets the moment that that I think would have been magical at summer slam this year. Let let the guy who's more of the people's choice and Seth get that that decisive win Danny Brian will never I should say never. They'll never be the first rock Brian match. With Brock is a hill. And Brian has a baby face having the spirit of metro Brian overcomes. You know, it's a David Goliath story and Brian wins in. It's unbelievable. Not have been a great moment and car that they could have played at number of times along the way, including this time if they wanted to but they didn't. So the options for Brock are limited. But I don't know who the second choices at this point to to challenge. Brock much less beat him. You know, I don't think a rematch has a lot of appeal. I mean, what is what is an alternate. One is the the second choice for Brock. If Brock works at wrestlemainia, will you you'll hope he does, you know, I guess the Cormie fight is probably going to happen in either February or March, you would think so, you know, I guess if he gets, you know, something if he gets hurt or even can cause there is that risk of him not included in time. But who knows I mean, knowing WWE, maybe they've got deals in place where they pulled the Mike Tyson Saturday night's main event card, and if Brock listeners not wrestling wrestlemainia day, is it crazy for me to say Daniel Cormie might be like at crazier. Things have happened. I think. I I don't know from raw in terms of the universal title. Who would be a better fit than Brock and Seth you know, I think that I I think that because of what happened on smackdown? One thousand people really want a triple h versus Batista match to happen, which you know, at this point. I think needs to. Smackdown is a little up in the air right now. It's a little close to call in terms of even who's going to be champion. You know, it's it's a little unfair and try to figure out the smackdown main event only because the entire landscape shifted over the course of the last ten days. So yeah, that's a little tougher. But yeah, I mean, I guess I don't know who would fit at this point the wrestlemainia main event unless it's unless you do a dramatic and you get tire ready in time. I mean, drew McIntyre is the only other name in either. It's drew McIntyre versus Brock would drew McIntyre is a good guy or maybe Braun dozen other. He'll turn between. Oh, and wrestlemainia and drew comes in to defeat. You know, if it's going to be drew McIntyre. I would think he's got to be a good guy. And I would think he's got a conquer a beast. Whether it's Brock listener or Braun strowman has drew McIntyre done anything in. There might be an obvious answer. Nothing going right now as I just think this question, what has he done anything? That's just so like he'll ish that it's that it would be hard to not have a long transition of him becoming a baby face like, what makes them a he'll. Really the only thing that makes him a he'll is his associations. So you know, the fact that he's. A couple of things his associations with dolph Ziglar. Now his association with Darin Corbin. I'm Bobby Lashley. And when he came onto the scene, insulting salting the rest of the locker room in saying that there's a complacency and that he's here to defeat that like, I don't think you can insult the rest of the locker room and be a good guy. But I think that those are easy fixes, you know, I think just stops insulting the locker room and doesn't hang out with Barron Corbett and dolph Ziglar anymore than. Yeah. All of a sudden, he's a super easy. Good guy. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't think that there's much. Anchoring him to being a heel. And I think that that's that one is probably by design. Yeah. So with with things with those things in play. I'm because I do think the lesson are. Listeners future is just I don't know. I mean, Dana white has said that he's unsure if Lessner is still going to fight Dan coordinate twenty nineteen it might be later. It could that could mean it's later in the year. I mean until I hear that announced. I don't know. And maybe WWE because Roman reigns is out of the picture anti for listener, you know, in in legends like, well, I'll just put off you'll see for until after wrestlemainia. This is this is crazy money. I'm going to take this and then in may assessment UFC situation. Do I fight? John Jones is John Jones has John Jones beat Daniel Cormie by then. And then you have Leonard Jones, which are which I would argue is a bigger money fight than listener cormier. Although any listener fight against any top guy is going to be a big fight. But Jones and Cormet are the big ones. I mean steep. It would be a fascinating Dirk Lewis would be a lot of fun. And I think a little bit fair of metro for Brock at that stage. So there's a lot of interesting things. But if listeners not in the mix, then you do have to look at true Seth and Peron as the three big raw players who are in the conversation and two of those three are likely to be matched against each other. But we other than Seth, and I hope I can say saying this being the baby face and not turning. I mean. Yeah. Like that you're right about this. I would pray about that too. So then then you're looking at Seth challenging or defending a baby face against either. He'll Braun or he'll drew or you have brought as a baby face against healed through or you turn on again and have to Rosa baby face. So those are I think the mix if Lessner isn't in the next, but I do think I don't think there's a v. Person to be in the universal title match than those four. You know, what I mean like inconsideration? Yet. No. Unless the Seth Rollins dean Ambrose thing takes a turn that we don't expect and DNA Umbro's ends up becoming a much bigger star than he already is. Yeah. That's always a possibility. I think it's a reach at this point. Because you know, Seth Rollins is Seth Rollins. But you never know you also frankly with the loss of Roman reigns. You never know what they're going to pull out with John CENA. You know, the idea that? At the Royal rumble. John CENA announces that he's going to be in it and actually wins the thing and wrestlemainia is headlined by John CENA versus Brock listener. That's not crazy. You know? I wouldn't not something that I would hope for but WWE loves big big big matches that they can put on billboards and movie star John seen over says you have see star Brock listener with the WWE universal title on the line. If not crazy. No, you're right. Yeah. I think that's it would have been remiss for one of us and to not bring up Johnson his name in that mix as either the plan or the savior for an awkward situation. If something just doesn't click, and quite frankly, you know, Batista. Isn't that insane either? I doubt it, but it's not that insane that again, and when you got the Royal rumble happening this stuff could happen. The idea that Johnson is in the Royal rumble is not like. Not only is it not crazy. It's probably more likely than it is not. The idea that Batista's in the Royal rumble. Maybe not quite as likely, but certainly not crazy that Batista would be in the Royal rumble. So you know, I think that there is a possibility that Batista and Brock listener is the main event of wrestlemainia with the universal title on the line. A lot can happen, especially given the fact that WWE is in this state of flux right now. Yeah. You don't know that that's interesting, you even through Daniel corneas name, and there's no chance, absolutely. But but John CENA, Batista, dean Ambrose, the three wildcards man, I think Bobby Lashley is not at that level. They'll Sigler not at that level. Kevin owns I don't think could be heated up coming back to get to that level valor Elias. No, so yeah. I mean, I think we got our core four, and then the three wildcards to consider anything else if in March, we're talking we'll be like, wow. We didn't see that coming right? And that's not necessarily a bad thing. You know, especially because in October. We wouldn't have seen. What's coming? What's happened? But in November coming so. Yeah. So we'll see. If you shop at Amazon, I have a request when you shop at Amazon, don't go to Emma, Zahn dot com. That sounds weird. How you gonna shop at Amazon if you don't go there. Well, they'll go directly there start at PW, torch dot com slash Amazon, that's p w torch dot com slash Amazon. When you go there. There's a giant Amazon logo click on it. It takes you right to the Amazon homepage where you were heading anyways. But that's small detour tells Amazon we sent you there. And when they got that message. They sent us a commission on everything that you buy. So it's a great way to support us without having to do anything different other than when you shop at Amazon start at p w torch dot com slash Amazon. That's PW torch dot com slash Amazon. Thank you so much for your support. So on the spectrum side. What's Dan O'Brien what what's the smack? What's the WWE titled Matt situation? Same question. Yeah. I mean, and that's a tricky one because you would have to imagine. So I think that Daniel Bryan is gonna hold onto the title. I think that it's it's a successful. It's going to be successful. I think you know. Where's that leave AJ styles? I don't know AJ styles certainly had this long run. So the question is who gets brought up to speed to try to to try to take the title away from Daniel, Bryan. Right. Because that that's what it is. And I I mean, I guess you could throw Randy Orton 's name in there. But I think that Randy Orton is not going. It's going to be a he'll as long as he's there. You know, I. So could they can they keep AJ and Brian apart long enough and build that anticipation for that in would would age as a face against Bryant is here with Brian avoiding AJ Jay has to win the rumble. Get the match be enough or did giving it away a few times a couple times on short notice on TV diminish it from being wrestlemainia, special attraction. No, I mean, I think if they have it at the pay-per-view at TLC. And then AJ wins the Royal rumble, and they don't have it. Again. I think you could build towards the one sort of climactic AJ styles. Daniel Bryan match, I think AJ styles versus Danny O'Brien is not a bad bet for how that would be. But it would be contingent on those two staying apart after TLC. Yeah. It's a third match or fourth match on wrestlemainia type match. He I mean, if you because you know, honestly, Becky Lynch is gonna hopefully and logically get smack downs main event spot. Yeah. And it should be the main event of the night, even though it will be you know, inter brand stuff. You know, and that you know, that could leave because the radically in order for that to work Becky would have to. Maybe lose the smackdown women's championship. And then win the Royal rumble. And who knows if she's got time to do all that in order to get over to the brand unless they just, you know, forget everything and say this is big enough like we're just doing this. And and I think that probably more likely than not they just do something where the the the GM's of the two brands come together and just say screw it like this match yet where it's just it's this matches too big. We have to negotiate. They can explain that in fifteen seconds and be done with an advance be like fine. We accept that explanation. We don't care just give us a match. We don't give. Yeah. They would see that as the exception. Yeah. That's when you look at some back down. I there's not if Daniel Bryan is a champion, and they don't go back to AJ styles. And I'm not crazy. I mean, I hate saying, but not crazy about that being the smackdown W titled represent the match that represents the W titled or Samania just because if they go through with it at TLC, and they keep I don't know that. Keeping them for four months is enough to build that anticipation for it to feel wrestlemainia worthy. So that leaves Jeff hardy Ramos stereo and Rousseff as your as your baby faces on smackdown. So I guess that brings me to the possibility of AJ gains the title. And Brian it's doing something else on wrestlemainia. So they give him the title run kind of say as a heel. But he's also made a mentor, but he drops a title. He has a feud with a wrestlemainia match with somebody else. And then you have AJ styles with a longer list of options, including radio. Who they're trying to heat up the win on Ray unmasking Ray. To me. I think AJ styles defending against Randy is slightly more attractive when I look ahead to April than AJ, and Brian, and I'm not crazy about, you know, getting I I know better than to get excited about Randy Orton matches blowing the away at just he's he's at a certain level of professionalism. You kinda know what you're gonna get and he doesn't really ever drop below that or exceed it, but storyline wise, narrative wise, I think that makes the most sense based on what we've seen of the booking right now. And it would leave you open for a potential Ray mysterious Daniel Bryan match, which would be pretty phenomenal thought. And again, we can go crazy here because we're far enough away from wrestlemainia that we can just, you know, throw stuff wall. Yes. See what fits you know, you talk about five years ago? Wrestlemainia thirty what all the controversy was around. What if? Daniel Bryan does keep the title from AJ styles. And we do we can still have AJ styles. Randy Orton match. We can do something else with AJ style else. What if Batista comes back to challenge Daniel, Bryan? Yup. What what if the sort of the the David versus Goliath with David being the he'll relationship that we saw survivor series gets repeated only this time we actually find ourselves and. Ling just for the sheer experiment aspect. Exactly does just because over the course of five years, we can get ourselves to a point where fans are cheering for Batista and booing Daniel Bryan in a match where Daniel Bryan is defending the championship. I like it's just it's interesting enough that it's worth exploring. I like it almost have to look if Daniel Bryan is a champion. You have to look for something from the outside coming it. Yeah. I agree. Now. Just throw out there when we're talking about wild. Character, Danny Brian. There's John CENA to Johnson and win the rumble and take on both Batista and scenic carry the risk that fans will then to your Bryant. I mean there is at risk. And that is a social experiment aspect of it. But I don't know if they want to mess with x fans like while we've enjoyed doing Daniel bribe. We're not gonna the John haters who love Brian for years aren't gonna then suddenly be like well now that brands he'll let's play along. I think there'd be some pushback in other told there might be. But, but but keep in mind that let's pay attention to the Batista that we saw on smackdown. One thousand not the Batista that we saw, you know, five years ago because what Batista from five years ago did in terms of not winning the championship. And Daniel Bryan actually being the one to win. And the interviews that he's done since then and the stuff that he did when he came back to smackdown one thousand and the fact that everybody loves him in the guardians movies, but Tista is a much bigger baby face. Walking into WWE in twenty eighteen then he was in twenty thirteen. Yes, totally agree with that. Another little factor. Kevin owns I haven't gotten an update on his time line to return. It probably isn't in time for the rumble, but Kevin owns winning. And declaring he wants to take on Daniel, Bryan as a baby face would be an interesting twist that I think fans would embrace and look forward to because it would feel like a fresh matchup, especially with the alignment to the personalities. I agree as well. Especially for all of us ring of honor nerds, I mean, Bryan Danielson vs Kevin Steen in the main event of wrestlemainia. It would be, you know, the the craziest thing ever, I think either way for Kevin Owens when he does come back, whether it's to lead towards something that wrestlemainia or or or if it's something different. Or if it's later, whatever it is. I think we need to go back to a a Kevin Owens. That's more similar to the annex t champion that challenged John CENA for the United States title and not a chicken, Kevin Owens. You know, I think we need. To get back more towards the Kevin Owens that we saw in St. Mr. wrestling, Kevin Owens, that's a little bit closer to Kevin Steen. Then the Kevin Owens that we've kind of gotten used to because Kevin Owens is so entertaining, and so fun. And so so his promos are so great. And he's such a good talker. That he almost distracts from the idea that he can actually be a credible opponent for people. On the second side of things. Let's introduce an annex t wildcard Royal rumble entrance slash call up into the mix. If I told you I had an authority, and I don't that inequity wrestler is going to be taking on the is going to win the rumble and take on the WWE champion on smackdown day Brian origins styles to likely people anyone any matchup jump out velveteen dream as a baby face against O'Brien. Black is a baby face against Daniel Bryan on to muscle Champa against AJ styles as a he'll like anything like that jump out. Be like, oh, yeah. Let's we have wrestlemanias set with the other matches in terms of the established stars. Let's use wrestlemainia to elevate somebody out of the gate as a call up. It's a fresh matchup. I like it anything like that. Yeah. I mean, definitely. And I actually got excited when you said that because something immediately jumped out to me, so we know we already know large Sullivan is coming up, right? They've been running promos. So that's a possibility. But we'll got me excited is. Yeah. I mean, I think Daniel Bryan versus Alastair black is definitely something worth exploring. I think that Alastair black. If you're going to have somebody from annex t come in and make as big an impact as actually winning the Royal rumble and actually going, and we're gonna use somebody from annex t to get the WWE championship match at wrestlemainia. I think the only. The one that is the most foolproof is Alastair black Alastair black. As a wrestler. I mean based on the match just alone based on the had to take over over the weekend. You know, I think that that his performance is so reliable and credible and realistic and cool and different that it's something worth showing that the gimmick is such real life that I think that Alastair black has the most potential to not get messed up on the main roster. You know, I think because velveteen dream as good as he is is so character heavy I think that velveteen dream is going to be needed. You're going to need to handle him delicately when he comes to the main roster, and you're going to need to and if slowly explain to WWE verse who he is like you're going to have to really handle with kid gloves because he's a superstar look like he is absolutely the future of this whole thing. But yet don't wanna ruin the velveteen dream character. Because it's I mean, it's such a great character. And I think if you're having somebody come in and win the Royal rumble and go to wrestlemainia as the good guy WWE championship challenger, your best bet is to go with Allistair black. Because as soon as you see Alastair black from the entrance. He doesn't even have to take his vest on. And you know, exactly who and what he is. Then once he gets in the ring, you leave that he can beat people immediately. So I think Alastair black versus Daniel Bryan would be an absolutely tremendous WWE championship match at wrestlemainia. Yeah. No, you make you made a great point there. And it's the crowd if you debut somebody at the Royal rumble wrestlemainia summer slam weekend, where it's the hardcore fans the hardcore crowd, you can get you. The those are the that's a bellwether moment for the more casual fans who go bring their kids, and it's sort of. Oh, this guy's over it. Yeah. You pay attention right away going. Okay. I don't need to decide if this guy is is a star the fans who follow this closer than I do have already seen enough of them to determine that. He is look star is first impression is of a star. You know? I mean, I think if if I was a kid, and I went to wrestlemainia with my dad and Alastair black showed up he would be attracted to that character. He would go like that's interesting. This is something that I'm into you know, because I because I get it as a person who doesn't watch wrestling. I still get what that character is. And he's he knows he is is confident but different you're like, I got to watch this guy. I don't understand what he's doing. But I'm glued to the screen watching what he does. Yeah. Yes. One hundred percents one more topic because I'm leaving a lot on the table for us because I'll be on your show this week to it's right? But I want to ask you about being the elite news breaking today that they have filed for some trademarks that indicate that. They are all elite wrestling might be the name of the company that they might be setting themselves up to launch their own wrestling company. We've don't it could be Jackson J J war ownership involve those rumors were there. Maybe some organiz suppression of that gaining as much theme as maybe if deserved in certain ways behind the scenes, and then on a number of fronts, but now maybe some evidence that there might be a new new competitor with big money behind it. I assume with big money comes a substantial TV clear, it's because without that. It's not a big competitor. But whether it's on WGN or TBS. So, you know, I don't know. I mean, like it's got to be a big top to your cable network tap that initial splash. What what do you think when I when we talk about that group of talent? And then the talent that they would assemble on top of that some other free agents in big names, and perhaps Jericho perhaps Ross to go along with the being the elite cast, wh what do you think is is that are there too? Many variables to predict if it can work or do you think? Oh god. Yeah. That could definitely work. I think he can work. But I think it's far from a given that it will work. You know? I mean, I think. When the N W O was the hottest thing in wrestling, and you made a pay per view that was just about the N W O it failed. You know what I mean? And I and and I think that the last thing you wanna do. And again, you could sit there and say, well, they did have pay per view. It was called all in. And it was one of the best pay per view the year, which is a hundred percent true. I love that pay per view. But I also think that when you have something that cool and it achieves its potential. You run the risk of the audience very quickly going. Okay. Now. What what else do you have for me? You know, there's something about an underdog. That is compelling and when it ceases to be an underdog it it becomes a little bit. A little bit more difficult not to say they couldn't utilize all that potential. But it just becomes a little more difficult. The second thing is, you know, they're never going to be WWE. Like doesn't matter. How much money you put behind it WWE is too big. You know, there's there's never there's never going to be a competitor for WWE. There's a conversation about number two. But I don't think that you will ever see again in our lifetime out competitor, a real competitor to WWE. So you also go, okay. You know? How badly do we want to be number two? Or should we be doing something that associates us with number one? You know, my and maybe I'm just a selfish WWE fan. I would like to see those guys into WWE rank I would like to see the Royal rumble get disrupted by Cody Rhodes, and the young bucks, and Marty and, you know, jump into the ring it would just those. I mean, imagine watching the Royal rumble and seeing those four show up and then seeing hangman page show up in annexed tea and then to eat add just for me as a selfish WWE fan. That's my preference. Now. However, if they do actually decide to start this other secondary promotion, I'm sure I'll be glued to it. What if they file the trademarks just to throw us all off? So that moment is even less expected that you just described and w w I wouldn't put it past them. No. Neither would I think there's a there's a huge. Possibility that there's that, you know, and there's an and the rumor of there being big money, but the behind those guys as been around for like two months now or so so, and that is something that could they could just be capitalizing on it. And I think that that would be the way to do it. But you know, I'd be super interested in seeing what they've got. And I'd be a fan. I'm sure because I was a fan of all in. But. You know, I also wanna see what they can do in WWE. I wanna see how the act translate to WWE. I I want to see that moment. That's that's the moment that I want to see I'm less confident than I wish I was that the the being the elite cast, and Cody will you know, that led by Cody and the bucks and then throw Kenny O, Megan I'm less confident than I wish I was that. Vince McMahon would would know what to do or stay out of the way enough to let it become what it could be. It'd be a big moment. But they're not six three even Kenya magazine. Not you know, like, and he's the biggest of the bunch. I guess they're just overall size wise, you'd be oh, he's the closest to a W W B heavyweight. But even he's not. You know, the Teesta size. There's nobody in that group to be that. And so I like I worry that outside of the controlling their own. And then they're they're approached their they're the quirkiness of what it is. That is the connection between them and their fan base. I think that can I think, but I don't know that that kind of quirkiness super serving an audience with it, even Cody said when I interviewed him a few months back that it was you know, that there's an ironic wrestling style to the bucks, that's not his thing. He's more of a traditionalist. He's you know, we saw that with Nick all this in the NBA title. But can you blend those two things and make them work? And if but both neither of them are what Vincent man, does, you know, like what code is kind of throwback turned down the house lights to spotlight and WHM Pierre ship, not putting the bear aside and all those kind of fun frivolous stuff to and what the bucks do when they're ironic wrestling style. I don't know that Vince will get that or want that integrated into his into. Company. So then they'd have to change so much that the people who are fans of them might be appointed in what they're doing. Maybe not maybe they'd love it. But I'm a little less confident than I wish I was I'm find myself more curious how big the audience is for that all in type approach to wrestling and the being the elite approach to wrestling, the wink and a nod super serving it you feel like you're part of it. I'm curious with big money and a big TV clearance behind it and bringing in some extra names how that plays out the idea of doing N W O only version of WCW never could work because the idea well who are the opponents or the baby faces if it's an N W only show, it just becomes a wrestling show with a bunch of people who say w after heels and faces fighting each other how does that translate in do they wanted to a problem with that probably less? So in fact, I'm quite confident less so, but it's still a factor in you brought that up to being errands, or how much of it was we had this match of moment and it worked can. Replicate this and stretch it out. I I'm more curious to see that in less worried than I am about them and WWE. Yeah. I think either way they have to evolve. And I'm I'm quite confident that they are going to evolve going forward. I think that they show up and WWE it has to be. Under unique circumstances. I they'll never get creative control per se. But there has to be an understanding that in order for this to work. They have to be allowed to do what it is that they do because you're right. It could go wrong. And we could ruin this thing that potentially could be amazing. Don't look at the bucks and say, oh, they're ready made for Vincent man to make money with them. No. Of course, not. But you know, we didn't look Kevin Owens that way. Either or generic o or quite frankly, we didn't look at Tyler black that way. When he was in ring of honor, you know, and they are different. We didn't look at Jon Moxley when he was doing death matches that way, you know. So we don't you know. But but and really we didn't look Bryan Danielson. I mean, that's one of the the biggest ones when Brian the the idea, and it took them a long time. So, you know, I don't know which side of the argument. He lands on quite frankly. But we didn't look at Bryan Danielson that way. And I think the idea that Daniel Bryan could have never existed and could have just been off outside of WWE doing his own thing, robs us of this great WWE character, and quite frankly, robs him. Of a legacy. And I think that the WWE is still something that guys need for that proper legacy. And that goes for, you know, and I don't know I wouldn't be shocked to see Cody Marty and the bucks show up and see Kenny omega just to Japan. You know, I I wouldn't be I would probably be less surprised if Kenny omega never shows up in WWE than I would of the others. But yeah, I mean, I really think for those guys I think that we need to see what this new version of Cody Rhodes is like in WWE. And you know, I think I think the bucks in Marty specifically needs some time in WWE. Sam tell people how they can hear your show, including a continuation of this discussion in a way. On on on your show. Tell people what to search for where they can find it and other things you're up to and how they can find you on social media. Well, my show is called Nazi wrestling. It's a podcast that come out every Thursday morning where we do interviews, and we do the state of wrestling. And we talk about all this stuff. I had. The disputed Iran, recently, I got to talk to all four guys. And again, those are four guys that people had doubts about what they would do in WWE. But I got to sit down with them for like an hour and actually talk about their whole journey. David Arquette was on this week. And he kind of was able to predict what would happen with him. He talked about how if he were in the ring and somebody were to take liberties, he's ready to fight back and a couple of days later, he ends up, you know, eating a light to from Nick gage. But this week I would recommend everybody. Download the thanksgiving version of not Sam wrestling because my guest will be none other than Wade Keller, and you can get that on I tunes Spotify, Stitcher YouTube and not Sam dot com. We're also I'm patriot. I do a bonus show where I have somebody in my life. Whether it's my wife, whether it's my dad, my brother, somebody who doesn't necessarily watch wrestling, and I have them sit down and watch a pay per view the lab. One that I posted was making my dad watch wrestlemainia nine and trying to explain to him. Why is it nine year old? I was so obsessed with this stuff, and it's a watch along format. So we do the whole three hours and those shows the active audience shows are available exclusively for not Sam shells at patriotair dot com slash not Sam wrestling. Great. Thanks. Thank you, man. You bet don't forget you can get this show ad free. A streamlined listening. Experience all for episodes of the white collar shows throughout the week. The post shows on the podcasts with the ads implodes removed. That's for VIP members only, and you can go VIP right now with our special sale three dollars and ninety nine cents for a full month. That's six dollars off the normal nine dollars ninety nine cent monthly rate. Go. Check out details at PW torch, VIP info dot com and enter coupon code sale three ninety nine that's sale. Three ninety nine. Get your first month for just three dollars and ninety nine cents. No further commitment, you can cancel anytime. You can also apply that six dollar discount. To a three month or one year subscription, if you would prefer that so go check it out PW, torch, VIP info dot com. Coupon code sale three ninety nine those space just sale three nine nine. Thanks so much everybody until tomorrow show was stone cold Steve Austin. This went Keller signing off. If you shop at Amazon, I have a request when you shop at Amazon, don't go to Emma, Zahn dot com. That sounds weird. How're you gonna shop at Amazon if you don't go there. Well, they'll go directly there start at PW, torch dot com slash Amazon, that's p w torch dot com slash Amazon. When you go there. There's a giant Amazon logo click on it. It takes you right to the Amazon homepage where you were heading anyways. But that's small detour tells Amazon we sent you there. And when they got that message. They sent us a commission on everything that you buy. So it's a great way to support us without having to do anything different other than when you shop at Amazon start at p w torch dot com slash Amazon. That's PW torch dot com slash Amazon. Thank you so much for your support. Won't entertainment designed just for you, then checkout. Customizable, streaming TV from xfinity. It makes your life simple easy. Awesome. Expended? He gives you, customizable, streaming TV options. Enjoy the most free shows anywhere on any device and even access your streaming apps right on your TV with x one. Go to expand dot com. Call one eight hundred eighty or visit a store today. To learn more restrictions applied. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon prime? Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offers subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members your customers may notice reduce speeds versus some T mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions.

Coming up next