Iowa Caucus "App-ocalypse" kicks off chaotic month: Jonathan Martin and Eugene Scott
Hello from Washington. I'm Chuck Todd and this is the Chuck Todd Cast. We are in the middle of one of if not the busiest political new cycles. Anyone can remember just to recap this week alone Cox Monday to state of the Union which had the feel of a campaign rally the end of the impeachment trial and finally. Oh there's New Hampshire primary that comes up and now six days and that was before the curve ball all we got from the Iowa Democratic Party which had one of the probably all time worst election tobacco in primary history. I think now the Chicago Tribune starts to feel good about itself as a vis taping two and a half days. After the caucuses took place we still have over a quarter of precincts left to report results. Ladies and Gentlemen Welcome to twenty twenty. The good news was that the Dominion Register poll nailed it again. No data so let's dive right into the chaos and what it means for the Democratic race. I'm joined now by two of my my favorite political correspondent these days. Jonathan Martin National Political Correspondent The New York Times and Eugene Scott Political reporter for the Washington Post guys the house. You're a hangover to where I feel. I feel like an Iowa hangover. I haven't drank at thing. You WanNa hear how intense my hangover was. I was is not able to get a flight out of Des Moines Tuesday morning so after staying up late Monday I had to wake up before to drive. Two two hours to Omaha Omaha so better than the four hour drive to Minneapolis. I had to go to Kansas City to fly out. That's another I mean I've got a bit of a Iowa Slash Nebraska Hang. You're not sure what day of the week it is. I know it's not Friday. Unfortunately that's the Madison boasts Jay mark. Where where where's your? Where's your a hangover late night? Monday and early morning. I'm fine with a late night but I want the have results by Daniel. My hope was that we missed the paper deadline. But we'd still get the results to be able to have a story on the web headline sold school. We put out paper every time you and my aunt and on the upper east side. That's that's cares about that. Paper deadline is more than that. A lot of raiders. Chuck just someone that happened the Over sixty before we get into the presidential race I want I mean the state of the Union is always a weird or event in the midst of a presidential campaign and especially when the when the sitting president is running for reelection. It always is a reelection speech. But my word Mr Martin In some ways it was it wasn't a state of the Union. It was simply I guess. The president's reelection announcement yeah and and it was a very political speech. Venue that's known more for Rhetoric is extensively about bringing the country together in about talking looking at least pretend every state of the Union speech reelection. You're sitting president has political. Obviously but at least you have the Patina of some some kind of Sort of civic civic good beyond just one's own reelection but it's it's so Trumpian and it felt like a sort of I felt like version of a Fox. News show meets a primetime reality. Show you know you have won a scholarship lose home. It's Daddy's back from the front lines and and you serve this new conservative conservative talk. Radio host are going to be honored right but this surprise right here Yeah I mean it just felt like very sort of Barnum beats ails else. Let's just drop. It is trump. I mean Eugene it is and I do think we probably ought to spend a few minutes on what trump was trying to do with weird. You'll get a scholarship and you get a star and you'll get a medal right. There actually was a method to that madness. I think what do you think yeah. I think he was trying trying to create clips. Give people enough material to Point to to say that he is actually this great generous Loving mindful entertaining President I am particularly Material to present before are people who criticize him and that he is not My full of people call them a racist and what he's GonNa say. Look what I did with the Ski Airman Tuskegee. Right young grown in underserved schools. I mean he just kept giving You know his his supporters material to throw into There you know cousins neighbors and Co workers faces about Who He really is versus what he did yesterday? But I feel like the speech as a whole was a trump's speech was trump rally speech if he actually paid attention to a script and actually you know it followed a script the difference. Yeah and you know it it it it served its purpose in terms of you know giving his base what they wanted and I think the whole event which historically as John mentioned is about unifying You know both sides of the hour was was designed to appease he's the basis of both sides. I mean everything from you know. Nancy Pelosi is a response to the absence of the handshake. And while I think those who really value you know unity you know we're upset. I think the basis were pleased. You know in some ways it was a fitting state of the Union. Say where we are. There wasn't the you're right. My sensibilities were offended. Yeah I sit here and I'm thinking what are we doing to the Presidential Medal of freedom but by the way it doesn't bother bother me who he gives these awards to. That's his right. Why you're doing it in the House Chamber? I'll admit I'm one of those sensibility. People I look at this and people like to criticize me for that you know. Oh you're you care too much about that stuff but I I can't sit here and say we are rewarding behavior that got us to this place like the state of our union strong and it began with a with a with a blabbermouth and talk radio. I mean we're in polarize place right now. Oh and that speech last night and the response from Speaker Pelosi reflected where we are and So I guess at least authentic it reflects six the kind of state of the country and the deep polarization on both sides and the incentives by the way To reward your base our practice base politics themes themes ended are so strong in. These politicians are respond to send the Eugene. You know. It's funny the way when somebody responds to trump with trump tactic. Whether it's Marco Rubio in the hands moment whether it was Ted Cruz just rip it into a winning. When they were attacking his wife or Nancy Pelosi ripping the person that does that? Does the Trumpian move to respond to this incessant attack. They get criticized. Chris iced they. Do you know it is one of those things. You're like why we're heart. Were sometimes collectively as a society harder on people that imitate trump than trump. Yeah I think You know the phrase is let trump trump. It's not let us all be trump right and so I think The standard that he has put in place place for himself. It's not one that people want to see You know other Lawmakers and people in influence adopt But I don't I don't know Oh that Pelosi is going to get criticized from her base. I mean she's being praised if anything she People are disappointed because she's been criticized the for being maybe just perform tive they would. They would have actually liked to have seen her not do more in that moment like push back more when it comes to like policies is that trump is actually putting four ripping ripping a sheet of paper. Doesn't mean anything if you're not implementing what the base wants you know really progressive policy is opposed to what Pelosi does try to do more often than people give her credit for is actually trying to find some type of middle ground with the president. Right what do you what do you make of of sort of how the left is split. Still on how to deal with trump not surprising because he so uh-huh symmetrical it's not easy to figure out how to combat them and I think the Democrats are always divide between this notion of You know we have to try to find common ground and appeal to the broad middle of the country versus were software getting play the Republicans fight dirty and we always play fight with them and Boxing gloves on they. They bring a pocket knife to a nuclear war. I have been going on in the Democratic Party. Well before trump of ray were the software. Dupes oops and we are. We don't play hard. It's sort of gotten more now exacerbated by the threat of trump so nobody knows how to figure it out but the Democrats are still more afraid of the Washington Post and New York Times editorial pages and the right is like I say I know the leadership of the Party. Sure they they get they do care. What aditorial pages? Thank when they do these moments and I think that is why they get nervous. And let's be realistic. The editorial pages in this country of the big ones that Democrats care about now. They're looking for unity and also because Democrats are still the more institutional nap. Because they've got a sort of robust left of center a faction especially in their class elected officials That's where a lot of our politics and our public is used to have that especially in the Senate But even the Senate Republican caucus his now got much more trump a five gene. It was interesting. The the very direct pitch to some African American constituencies sees whether it was older African Americans with Ski Airman Younger African Americans when it comes to the issue of of school vouchers and school choice things like that and I'm going to bide by the off the record mindset of the president of the off the record specifics of what we had in the in the in this lunch where he previewed a a little bit of his thinking he absolutely they absolutely have a strategy of trying and he because he was he quizzed me says what's the best of Republicans done this century with African American voters and I said it was W in two thousand fourteen percent and he had eight and he goes. We can do better than we do better than and he's probably not wrong if you look at his numbers he can't move any of these other base numbers anymore and you start to look at margins. So don't lose it. Ninety ten lose it ninety lose at eighty eight twelve absolutely I wrote about that right after the speech for the fix I mean when you look at states like North Carolina and and Pennsylvania and Michigan if he can get one and two percent here and there a the black vote more socially conservative the Super Super Bowl at the elite at and and and that you know very poignant moment absolutely if he can convince you know enough voters that what he is offering hiring is a better alternative especially if the nominee ends up being someone to left for many socially conservative black voters or would that so that's different conversation as monitoring is Buddha. Judge is to these socially conservative black voters the fact that he had progressive ideas about gender sexuality. We have polling rolling that supports even from the Post that would be to laugh perceived as culturally to light. Is I think more we get in the left and right this is really about culture. Left culture right because we're not having an economic debate in this country. Just make a point to that across racial lines. White Hispanic working class man especially arguing arguing be attracted to the kind of Trumpian bravado especially how our Ernie doesn't get to know your burns getting those guys right. Now you know Bernie's numbers. Among on Latino men I know less than college and African American men less than college are nearly the same as there are with whites less than college. I think one of the huge challenges this fall offer. Democrats is to try to figure out their challenge with working class Matt across racial lines. If they are not spending a lot of money on that there are going to be in big trouble and there was a problem. Two Thousand Sixteen to by the way Not know an Eugene. This is the trap that I think the Democratic Party is in right now. Is They still think the swing voters the same and it's like look where we trump is. It's a different swing voter whether you like it or not. The suburbs have to be part of your base. Now your swing voter. Is this working class man. That is less than college. I mean definitely in terms of room to grow their turn out right so I spent a few. Ah Past recent months. I've spent some time in Tennessee in North Carolina and talking to working class men across the board when it comes to race in and the reality yes when they when you talk about cultural anxieties there is some concern about gender and sexuality and what family looks like and the reality is the traditional national masculinity for better worse you know posit toxic that Trump displays it could be winsome to some of those individuals but beyond just trying trying to focus on black voter outreach. I definitely think was part of that speech and it's definitely been part of the focus of the campaign when trump often talks about race. He's not thinking. What about black people primarily for usually brown people? It's I think it's white people that are concerned that trump is racist. And don't like the the idea of voting for a racist and so it makes them feel better where he can't be racist gave a scholarship and he you know the voter. He's looking for them. It's the college educated White Guy. Sure who is who likes. The tax cuts doesn't like doesn't like the sexism and racism just doesn't says I'm not that I don't I want to be associated with that and if he can give them enough cover as you just set out just oh oh he just that's he doesn't mean it look what he does. He would would a racist do that. He's he's best friends with Ben Carson. I mean I. I heard the vertical to the Office Park Dad in like some of the suburbs and places like Phoenix Phoenix and Dallas and probably be effective. They want to rationalize voting for someone whose behavior they find otherwise appalling but they generally are right of center themselves and if they find the Democrats nominated to be too liberal and they gotta have some rationale for for voting for trump and being able to tell themselves that now now he's not a bigger certainly doing all right. Let me pause here on state of the Union conversation. We may even sneak in a quick break because I want to flip to Iowa. But here's what I don't want to do. I'm I'm not. I'm not into dealing with the process. Let's do the numbers of accent great. That's what we're going to do after this all right. Let's move to Iowa but let's move on what we can see so you know it's I think everybody realizes disaster yes never gonNA happen again probably not all that stuff. Okay done we know the Kochs are over however what did we learn from these caucuses Eugene. What was what when you look at what we've seen so far and it looks like we know it's going to be good at it and burn one two? We don't know that final numbers yet. We but clearly Bernie won the progressive fight in Iowa and Buddha judge when the moderate fight in in Iowa that is significant regardless of anything else. If if you don't know your numbers you don't Know Your Business. Most companies don't have a clear picture of their business and that's why many businesses struggled grow net suite by Oracle is here to solve that problem as a business owner. Are you really confident. You're making the right business. Decisions Serious entrepreneurs and financial teams run on net sweet. The world's number one cloud business system net sweet offers a full picture of your business. Everything in one place finance inventory. HR customers no more guessing. No more worrying run in your business with confidence grow successfully on that sweet like Ring Hint Bollandbranch and over nineteen thousand other businesses net. Sweet business grows here schedule your free product for right now and receive their free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash. NBC Set up Your Free Product Torch and get your free guide today and net sweet dot com slash NBC net sweet dot com slash NBC. I'm not really surprised that Sanders won progressive fight in Iowa but I think what the moderates communicated and getting behind Buddha judge who worked really hard to get these voters You know who. Oh I'm he perceives not being that different in terms of a mid western sensibilities Than than himself is that they want a new face even within the moderate Lane so I think even closure wasn't new enough no not at all and I think a lot of times people think support for buying. It is about going back to the Obama days but I think backing Buddha judge said we like these politics and this ideology but we still wanted to be fresh and maybe four thinking and and I think that was a a a you know fact that we dan consider in terms of where where that wing of the Democratic Party would go timur. I was out there two weeks ago I think in one night I saw Biden and Fort Dodge which is sort of smallest community but you can call it a real town it is. It's a small. I'd call it a big town town big town now quite a small part of the state. That doesn't have a lot of downs the next day I was with Mayor Pete in in Dubuque which is more of a small city on the Mississippi River. The crowds were completely different. The energy The age the diversity. Everything about the events could not have been more different. That's part because the two communities that's also because the candidate it was clear then that Buddha judge had some ahead some energy that Biden didn't have and and a caucus that matters so much because again you have to be willing to show and stay there for a few hours and and that really helped Footage Iowans like the new young. The fresh them next Silmi. That's GonNa make them feel good about themselves and I they had one I would democrats say look. Pete reminds all of a sudden grandson and I always joke. That he's what he's what older. Folks want millennials correct but millennials any. Oh don't want they don't but you know what Eugene I would just say this you look at the entrance poll and you look at if you look at it as a demographic resume right okay for everybody. He's the best all around. He had the best resume he was second. Yes he was a number one among millennials. But he wasn't dead last he wasn't number one among old people. Dead last Bernie was dead. Last among old folks and Biden was dead last among young folks. I think it'll be interesting because a lot has been then written about how you know He. Is You know the choice. Have grandparents that what they want. Their young young exciting to be in his team hasn't been pushed back on that or offended by that. Ah Portrayal older people vote. I was GONNA say everyone keeps talking about you. Know The millennials being the largest voting block This go around and they are but they are the largest largest turnout block. But when a per- percentage it's matted matter it'll be interesting to see what changes they take moving forward if there will be any more you. You know millennials surrogate if he will be more aggressive unlike outreach at college to try to win some of those yeah he's got an opportunity now to present himself himself as not as far left as Bernie but not as we're status quo as Biden. Somebody they can actually appeal to their generational bases the Bernie a young bride. No and I think he's going to try to do that. The question I have belt after the last few months is is he ever GonNa win over non white and I just. I don't know how he fixes that the challenge winning can help. Winning helps and winning twice in a row really held. That's right if he goes into into Nevada to know Nevada. Look a heck of a lot different. Oh I I totally agree either and I think I got three. Oh by the way I gotTa think Michael Bloomberg regrets not falling in the primary. He had he decided he decided not to filed literally wait until the next day and filed in the superior taste about South Carolina for mistakes. That's an he should have. He should've said no caucus right. I get that and try to primaries. There's only okay yeah. Look Tom. Steyer has made inroads and taking votes from Joe Biden South Carolina almost entirely by virtue of TV ad that blooming Grove also afforded Eugene. Part of me also thinks that Bernie is not getting properly dinged for what I think was a disappointing showing for him. Because look at it this way and I think we all thought I think the most shocking number to me in the entrance hall was that there were more people who were Hillary Clinton supporters from the last time that people caucus than Bernie supporters. And and you know you heard the same thing I heard. We have eighty thousand people here. That Caucus Bernie the last time. All we need is half of them and we win this thing okay. I thought they were going to overwhelm the place. They didn't overwhelm the place. They did get hammered and polk county which was a problem. They didn't have support across ideological lines nor across regional lines even I think Bernie showed the ceilings lower than we thought and I wonder if that was because of One one of two reasons one. The impeachment stuff required him to blanket. You know in in Washington wet blanket for turnout for all he has. He has some high. I profile surrogate so I saw a representative Ilhan Omar out there but people wanna see the candidate and so his absence. I think hurt him. Also in terms of Clinton supporters I mean one should ask Hillary Clinton coming out repeatedly criticizing Bernie Sanders. Does it hurt. Hey speaking of the Hillary Bernie raisins my my colleague Neko and had a really good observation based on our poll that we did a couple of weeks ago which had Bernie up but but actually had pete second and was revealing was the breakdown of support between this field based on the the twenty sixteen county map. Yup and you can see where Pete strength was on the the northern and southern border of Iowa where Hillary was doing the best and six thirty five. It was right. I mean the right out right along I thirty I thirty five right. Yeah North and South and that's where Hillary did dwell and that's where pizza because he had time especially in final weeks. Yeah folks word to it through an impeachment. He had time to get five events a day and by the way he was doing five. A day still is usually two the three day five events today in all our communities especially when my thing chuck this was bewildering to me. Why was he only culet for president on the Sunday shows it was before who P yes? Trust me we'll be able to ourselves. I mean but then the hub for you. I know Joe Biden Day. There's no Democrat has been on. Meet the press more than Joe Biden and he has yet to appear on meet the press. Two Thousand Sixteen right and all that does screams is. They don't WanNa they don't WanNa because it's not just it's usually happy to do the TV shows that have been holding back on Sunday. And by the way not just Sunday Monday morning the the network and the cable shows now he was relentless I mean he was all over. TV and I. It's an older demographic they watch TV voters watch TV. But that's the story. I mean that's how it became Buddha. jags I hits music television. That goes on everything from like the breakfast club Youtube to more traditional TV. Who did this and sixteen a guy named Donald all trump? Yeah absolutely absolutely and I mean you know said after Iowa. He had about an hour of sleep. Maybe two hours and I believe the the guys in Litchfield Industry magazine Right. That's the thing the opening. Although I have not heard that joke in a long time God retired it's effective because especially when nobody else is doing it yes no. It's unreal issues to himself Ginsburg it. It's it's it is bizarre. I want to introduce one of the theories to Biden's problem that hasn't been talked about and I think it's this. I think the Iran debate at the beginning of January reminded. Because you talked about these moderate voters. Eugene wanted that some people looked at Biden and said Oh yeah we want to go back to Obama Obama but then what did the Iran debate remind everybody up. Oh Biden voted for the Iraq war. Yeah it's one of those and then suddenly if you're a moderate voter doesn't like Bernie the but but that judgment matters to you will then suddenly. Who's your choice it? I think that was a bigger a problem for Biden and look pulling hasn't surfaced it but that is win. He felt like he hit a wall. Especially when you're competing against someone who went to the war and had some some stories to tell about how difficult was and how it affected you know people ended. I was at a rally of Buddha. Just he talked about how much he loves coming island and how he ran into someone at the airport that he served with and like got to tell her story and is able to do all of that for someone who's Kinda reminescent of the Obama era while portraying himself as the next Obama so it just works for him in a couple of ways to take in a different direction. I think the most important day for ability judge was the day that trump came out in the White House and said that we are not going to respond to the Iranian attacks on the US based in Iraq and that we were not going to get into a shooting war with Iran. That's a key for because if we do get into a shooting war with a ROM and we're in our third hot war in the region I it becomes very hard for for a young player to be a commander in chief even given his military experience. I think once that moment faded and this thing about the trump era nothing laughing asking why we are on the verge of World War One day by the Caucasus. Three weeks later it basically. It's forgotten and I think it was forgotten once. We are backed way conventional race. A Gift repeat it is let me ask you the Biden riddle this this way. I feel like we're all sort of ringing our hands. Is it already over. And we just aren't ready to fully say it because he's the former vice president he's too formidable in the polls and all all this or are we actually giving them too hard of a time about his performance in Iowa. Either both in no I mean that's sort of cop out of I think it's kind of third way. I mean I think. I think there has been skeptical more skeptical coverage now the human fourth. But let's get the miles to win something something that is in South Carolina. He's gotTa know he can't wait this here on his guide. My point weight. Well yeah he can't keep yeah. I mean I think Nevada's pivotal to and he knew Newham if he finishes Fourth of New Hampshire can explain to me how he does well in Nevada. I'm well I I was GONNA say Latino Vogler voters which I know like Sanders. Anders is improving with. But I mean with women comes to black and Latino voters I mean you cannot write off. Someone who is leaning with these demographics has been for most of the Rates especially when the alternative for moderate is someone who's doing terribly with Black Latino only speak Spanish. I believe the only person that speaks fluent Spanish in this field as Pete. Yeah but I mean it's gone. Yeah it's not turning out to vote. I mean like Buddha Buddha judged by them with winning black voters against against black people candidate right not to pander to John Ralston but I think Nevada could really matter this tide you too because it's the it's the first state that not only has a more diverse demographic you know I now Hispanic black but also because it's a regular Democrats state. What do I mean Democrats Democrats? They vote in blocks here. You read a huge force machines day exactly. Yeah it's a caucus state with regular Democrats. Joe Biden can't regular Democrats from the Labor movement and from the party structure who are black Asian. He's one years my feeling Nevada and I'm a little bit cynical this way. I don't think the caucuses mature enough for voters to overwhelm overwhelm the machine. Okay in Iowa. The Caucus got mature enough where party leaders couldn't sort of wire it. Yeah why are you. Yes that is still wireless. I think it is right. And because of this Culinary Union power obviously I think there's a huge problem for Bernie right because the Culinary Union Union loves their healthcare plan. Okay and they don't like Medicare for all so that that's a big problem. I guess the question is is it does it become Emma Stop Burning Movement at any source and so does it help anybody who's in second meaning. They'll help footage or Biden. My point is this Eugene. If Biden isn't topping Buddha footage why do we think Harry Reid will help Biden. Maybe Harry Reid says all right. I'll put my finger on the scale for the for the younger Harry. Reid did this before. He bucked the old establishment and Hillary and quietly helped Obama. so He's capable of this. What I think people are so trying to see what happens with Buddha judge in New Hampshire before they make a determination? That's a component. Yeah let's see it again. This is not a fluke I mean but we know people have one in the past that you know have not enjoyed as much success moving four and so making a decision off of that one one contest that that I mean that is still has not been called right I think it's a bit Premature no doubt on New Hampshire is a big deal about is a bigger deal. I disagree we pause here for a second because after this one one. We're going to do all things Mr Bloomberg. Hey it's MSNBC's Chris as this week on my podcast. Why is this happening? I'll be talking with Beth. macy macy author of dope dealers doctors and the drug company that addicted America. The big problem. Is there still a huge stigma. That says if you're taking in one of these life saving medications you're treating a drug with another drug and I saw people over and over in my book die because of that outdated unscientific attitude. That's this week on. Why is this happening three? Let's come back all right. The Michael Bloomberg experiment. Good Band or the way that Michael Bloomberg is to be used to. I heard on vinyl a bigger fan of the Carlos Danger Project. That was one of my favorites. That was my. That was my Augustina from Mexico. I was a fantasy team named Carlos. Danger Project Much better than the Alan Parsons Project. So Showing Age Orellana the Salvation Army. All right so we're going to the Michael Bloomberg experiment and I. I don't know what to make of it some days. I sit here and say I get it other days. I'm like you know just because you advertise brand dog. Food doesn't mean that events that people we'll still want to eat it and find out if it works and we got to see what voters think you know on one hand. I think Michael Bloomberg is happy. Be about the chaos on the other hand. He could've used a bigger Bernie win. I think he generally please though with the way things worked out. And when I when I talked to voters who have seen the ads they call them effective. No and that's and that's what he wants. I think they are too and they hit they go issues and they hit trump and they don't really talk about him they do and they don't talk about some of his sweet weaknesses and he hasn't had to appear yet debate to defend them And he hasn't gotten the media needed scrutiny that the candidates who are competing in in debates and caucuses and primaries have. Where's the owners by the way to know? Absolutely are walking him either. He's after funny you a you know he could be a dark horse and You know it's it's not to be dismissed right now. There's two ways Bloomberg works in my head. J Mart McBurney gets is a little bit of a head of steam. He drops an envelope on guns and daddy either works or or totally boomerangs because every time live joked every time a billionaire tech spurning another socialist gets its wings. But I I I so I don't and it's possible that Bloomberg Org if it's Bloomberg Buddha Gin and and Bernie coming out of the for February. Isn't that advantage Bernie. Yup Yup because you've got to three suddenly Bernie to suddenly burning win the Alabama primary because of a three way split out of the picture of the point. I don't know I mean what is worn. Have to do a New Hampshire. I mean I think if you have to finish second and third is a disaster for her top too hard for a central. Explain the next order. Beathard you can't explain that away so Eugene is just not no sorry. It's audio. Well it's it's I think a lot of times I've seen reaction to warn that Her performance in Iowa should seto the conversations or questions about likability. And I'm my cow in a fourth place. Finish like and I mean what could saddle at a bit is if a first or second in New Hampshire and I think the challenge for warranted. Is there on election night in Iowa. Her people said on the record. This is a three way tie for first. The results next they come out. It turned out that she's not tied for fourth fourth. Closer to Biden. Who Four right exactly? So I think that they're they're preemptive spend turned out to be false and then I think compounds are challenged into raises the stakes for her New Hampshire plus. The fact that she has from next door has been a lot of time in New Hampshire and Should obviously have geographical at Vienna's I real fast on Bloomberg Mark. He wants chaos but I think he wants to burn anymore I think. Oh He. The look the only path nomination form is is a one on one with Bernie. I think that's that's right. I still don't think he went to that. Yeah I think that's a tougher. I don't I think it's a lot harder than people realize. Yeah but I'm curious about is you know aware. Non White voters wind up in South Carolina in Super Tuesday. Eugene what do you make of every day there's another African American mayor that endorses Michael Bloomberg. Yeah I mean and I I wrote a piece about how well black I think. Black mayor endorsements are more effective than black lawmaker. I think to. I'd rather have a black mayor than a CBC assuming that. I had these black mayor on the ground with black voters in these city machine. Thought they know they know what's happening. you know the and I think it gets effective and I mean you you have these people campaigning for A mayor who really does have to overcome with black voters because of stop and Frisk can and just other concerns. It's a reminder. It's when I saw those mayors endorsement. I'm I'm a skeptic. I don't know if the democratic ten is big enough for Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg me neither one of our members of the Party and they could end up being fighting to see who who gets to reanimate the Zombie Party. Isn't that a great story. By the Way Twenties Twenty Sixteen Donald Trump twenty twenty seniors and Bloomberg. It really does demonstrate. All the two parties are dead. How broken it's no I I I am? I am of a mindset that that they both need to break up neither party really. We need to start over. We should be already. I know it's four parties then and and if you actually had to build a coalition to gain power when you were in power you'd build coalitions to it. We don't know how to make coalitions anymore as a as a country politically and there's not a lot of incentive right now to to do it you are doing well. If you're stuck in stuck in this thing I mean it's pretty obvious what the four parties are right. There's a democratic socialist the democratic capitalist. This there's commerce. Republicans and the and the and the and the blue collar populist correct trump parties stuffed into currently and the and the two streams get to dominate the conversations of both parties because they're the energy of the primary right now they certainly I mean if it was Bloomberg Sanders Sanders and Buddha judge. The argument Buddha judge could have a Democrat is not as effective at winning the Democratic nomination as it should view all all right before we go the impact of impeachment if you're a Democrat who votes to acquit on something if you're a Republican votes present or and by the time I'm some people here this it will happen. I happen to think that the smartest play for Romney Jones Mansion all of cinema is to as as a block vote present. It's not guilty but you can basically say didn't have enough information. It didn't have enough in. That didn't have enough information to well. Well I think if they had started a block present you actually might have gotten a few more in it again. You vote present Tulsi and simply say didn't have enough information to acquit or convict. Make the witness argument but does anybody think voters are going to punish these folks within their own party. If they sort of move on the other side it depends on the state right. I mean I don't think Doug Jones has gone and get punished within his party he can. He's got free. He's got a little little little room mansion Well I mean he's not up for another four years but he he already votes mostly with trump anyway he sat with the Republicans at the State of the Union. NOT NOT SURPRISE IS I. I'm always as a former political reporter in Phoenix. I'm always interested in cinema. What do you make her the former progressive? I mean. What's what's the reinventions incredible? And all that know her best are the ones most flummoxed by her. I was going to be like when I when I talked to people who have looked at our over the past decade store. It's really fascinating. She realized one day that she wanted to run statewide. Maybe beyond a new. The math was the pass then the math and work unless you from the metal but look I think Susan Collins made a fateful decision to vote for acquittal faithful faithful. I think it's over she. She joined the trump party. Yeah and if you're in the trump party it's tough and maize very hard and made because the votes in Maine are mostly on the coast and they're mostly southern Maine and there's just not a lot the people in rural Maine that can that can save you and create a huge challenge for. She's always counted on moderate Democrats and independents on the Maine Coast goes to vote for who who otherwise we're voting democratic presidents. And they're not going to do it anymore because they don't split ballots anymore. That's not where we are on this. And they're not GonNa do it because her rationale is just not believable believable. She says she believed the president. Trump has learned from this. He won't leave even admitted anything. What's the problem and by the full product corn? Doug Jones. His his fate is probably been sealed to he knew that too when he decided to vote to convict on To remove on both games right. Here's the thing with with Jones. I think there's only there's one candidate it's impossible for him to beat. And that's Jeff Sessions I think of Jeff sessions of the nominee. He walks into the Senate seat because the Republicans that voted for Jones owns over more sessions trumped unlike session like a weird way. Trump's hatred of sessions actually make sessions almost bulletproof if he you can get the nomination up in Jones needs more otherwise it's difficult fight. Now there's no data so in some ways you can't disappoint your base right absolutely and I mean I think Jones. It's thinking long-term regarding what happens after his time in the US Senate and ways that we're seeing a lot of people consider in terms of choosing. What's either yeah? They're gonNA vote on. The president swears the houses and play. I think he's the only Republican that thinks the houses and play for Republicans. I think it's unlikely that there'll be a huge change in the house. I mean it it is. He's hoping impeachment can matter. I just do you think. Single person loses reelection to impeachment. I think there's a couple of house folks who who are in really read districts Who could have problems because of that but I think the larger issue is impeachment benefit is just polarization and demography? That's what drives our elections now more than events it polarization and demography and I think in a presidential year. If you're from Salt Lake City or Oklahoma City the low country of South Carolina and Democrat. It could be hard to survive by the way I've been thinking about this. I think events are going to drive this election that we don't know about yet more so than anything. We think we know right now. Do events like I'll give you one. There's an open supreme court say. Oh well short my point I think it could break us by the way and opened Supreme Court seat that Mitch McConnell attempts to fill in the next three months yeah it would break. It could break us. Yeah I mean it's February It's I mean this administration as you just said it happens when September comes around. No one will be talking about February news the NFL. We are so true and we know this every time we say it and we and yet we I got when when there was the The House Democrats voted through the US. MCA Oh my gosh. They're they're giving trump win this. This is so dumb like the idea talking about. US MCA like a week later. Let alone a year later it. Does everything moves in the trump era. And that's by the way part of the reason. Why he he hangs on is because there's five more things that he's going to say by this time next week? You know all right. Well everything's been said we just ran out of time to say good all all right Eugene. Where you off to next? Are you hitting the road in New Hampshire. I am not but I'm covering the debate going to date and then you're going early states. Yeah okay. I'm Greenwich bound tonight. Don't Mr j Martin it. What's the best new offering any decent food newspaper Manchester? It's called draftable a Boston and Ah I was talking to some operatives who are really going to moines is like now ten times better than Manchester it was always a food the moines it is good player. I'm sorry but I also loved. Just you know just the big chains that you just don't see Nice People don't realize how moines I can't tell you how join US transformed twenty and some gray microbreweries that was really awesome to the moines identity is is is just so fast and I really feel form for losing the caucuses. It's probably GonNa go because I think it had a huge impact on demand. I really did over the last Eh. Time Manchester's just still Manchester Concord charbonnet. Can't we move it all to Nashua. That was my Nashua court. Smith got got a ball is actually the most charming make the headquarters of all things. New Shows Portsmouth there in the summer and then Hanover. In the fall. The best part of the name Sheri. Here's where it's not nobody says. Let's go to Manchester. It just happens where the airport in February especially I was gonna say maybe move the whole thing to the summer. Yeah that would help. We're going to Charleston. You GotTa go you gotTa go you Jean J. Mart. This is exactly the type of postal podcast. I wanted to ask so thank you. Thanks John Appreciate it. You've been listening to the Chuck Todd cast from meet the press. Today's episode was produced by Justice. Green and Ryan Braun Matt Rivera's our senior digital producer and genres our executive producer. Steve Look what ties they had a podcast for. NBC News And our theme Music is composed by smoke media at this point. If you're still listening Conan thanks for listening big. Shout out to Cohn cast nice to see you know if everybody's GonNa have a podcast. We all have to listen to each other's podcast so Conan I'm subscribers thanks for subscribing to mind you can catch catch phrase daily on MSNBC every day at five and the big show every Sunday morning. Thanks for listening. And until we upload again what if all you're breaking news alerts had a voice. What would that sound like it? It would sound like today. Explain its Daily News. podcast from Vox. I'm Sean Rotherham. 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