The Chris and Joe Show: Analyzing The Top 5 Picks
podcast listeners. We are amazing avenue. The espy nation New York mets site. I'm Chris McShane and every week Brian Salvator and I discussed the current state of the mets Automated Avenue audio the show. We try to look at the mets from a somewhat logical point of view and not get too deep into panic city. We also answer your emails give weekly music recommendations and try not to get too frustrated with the team. You can find the show on Apple podcasts on stitcher on spotify wherever you get your podcasts. And let's go mets. Welcome to the Kristen. Joe Show presentative. Isp Nation and Biglou view on Joe Deleo and joined by Chris from continuing our NFL draft coverage that. We've been giving you for a few weeks now. We're getting very close to the NFL draft meaning. The clock is ticking. Things are going to start to get really really interesting in these next few weeks with potential of trades and other various rumors circulating on who could go where which is why on. Today's show. We'RE GOING TO BE TALKING. About how the top five picks in this year's draft could shape out we're going to discuss. What are the teams most likely options for these top? Five picks that being the Bengals redskins lions giants of course and then the Miami Dolphins and how all of this relates to who will eventually be on the board for the giants win. The pick comes in getting right on into what we're talking about today breaking things down for the Cincinnati Bengals the first pick in the two thousand twenty. Nfl draft in Chris. I don't think you can over complicate this at all. It is so clear that the bengals are going to be taking Joe Borough and they need to take him and not look back. They need a boost at the quarterback position in any rumors about him saying that he wants to be traded or doesn't WanNa be a Bengal is a bunch of Baloney. It's going to happen. He's going to be their starting quarterback week. One of twenty twenty. It really is just an absolute no brainer for Cincinnati. Just take burrow. He is coming off a historically great season for Lsu National Championship heisman trophy. Just absolutely dominant play. His play under pressure is better than pretty much. Every other quarterback in recent memory has been clean. I just have to say watching. Lsu's tape during draft. Prep this year. It started to get frustrating. Because I couldn't not watch Joe Borough. I would try to be concentrating on the offensive line or just in Jefferson or Thaddeus Moss or any of these other guys or defensive players. They happened to be playing. And I just couldn't not watch borough. The things he was able to do last year were unreal. Just don't over think it don't even think just turning the card say Joe Borough and move on. There's really no other direction for them to go. In in less they really wanted to trade out of that. Pick in the in those Joe borough rumors of him not wanting to be being over true but again that is not true. I keep seeing. It's during a pop up on twitter from unverified accounts with Sources that they won't reveal saying that he doesn't want to be a Bengal. Don't believe any of that. Don't buy any into any of that. It's people that are trying to get clout or maybe they're trying to create a smokescreen. Whatever they can do to stir conversation. Joe Borough is going to be a bangle and the other alternative that is a bit laughable that I've seen in some mock drafts from various people and especially on draft twitter is that just in Herbert could be in play for this first overall. Pick and talked about how good of a prospect Joe Borough is. It just doesn't make any sense that you can compare the two Joe Borough the performances that he had last year against elite level. Sec Defenses and the things he was able to do in game in terms of his traits quarterback are significantly higher than that of Justin Herber. So there's no reason for them to even debate that debate who should go instead of the other. Yeah I I saw a one comparison for Joe Borough that just really stood out and I can't really argue against it and that is Patrick. Mahomes just watching borough the utter and complete confidence that he played with his ability to execute pretty much. No matter what defenses through at him and execute at a high level almost perfectly. Okay he might not have mahomes insane arm where he could throw it a hundred yards from any angle on his knees but everything except for that it. Kinda checks out. He's got that athleticism that you don't expect he can. He can throw from almost any platform. His accuracy and precision were ridiculous. He was completely unafraid of risk and pretty much completely unaffected by pressure. So I I think we spent more than enough time on this one. Yeah we're probably going to be breaking down this election. More than some of these other picks. Where do you know who's going to be the guy next second pick? The Washington Redskins is where things start to get really interesting because there's a number of different directions. They could really go. And the first and obvious one is chased young and the best available player on the Board. But that doesn't Rule Out Jeff Okuda in that also doesn't rule out an interesting take. You have here Chris. Maybe offense tackle. Yeah this was a a thought I had actually this morning walking the dog right now. Washington does not have left. Tackle Duane. Haskins there is some question as to whether or not he is in Ron Rivera. Plan for the future but we did see some really impressive improvement from Haskins at the end of last year. The last five or six games. We saw him just take strides and improved by leaps and bounds from game to game basis. And he was doing that really with just kind of a makeshift left side and if Washington really likes decides. They really liked him. They wanted to develop him. They need to find a left tackle. Because Trent Williams is not going to be back he has made that abundantly clear. He no longer trust the organization. He doesn't trust the franchise and he doesn't want to play for team. He doesn't trust so could Washington actually at an offensive tackle. We have heard kind of behind the scenes that the giants are looking very seriously at either tristen. Worse or Isaiah Simmons we have. There is another set. That are saying they're hearing that. The giants are looking at Isaiah Simmons or trading back. So what if perhaps what the other set is hearing is that the giants do want address draft Christon worse but it is possible. Perhaps even likely that Worth will not be there to be drafted so that just got me thinking. What if Washington basically does what they did with Brandon Sheriff and takes the offensive Lineman when people weren't really expecting them to? It's certainly a direction that I don't think a lot of people are considering. It's more of a possibility than really. Then people think could actually happen because like you said. They are in need of an offensive tackle because of Trent Williams no longer wanting to associate himself with the organization and it really is just a matter of how they grade things and if they happen to grade wirth's equal with one of these defensive guys if that is chase young then well they could end up taking him instead of young but it seems like right now that their best possible direction is taking chase young like I said Jeff. Okuda could be play if they're a little bit more in favor of taking a corner. The other option to here for them is taking a quarterback or trading back. And there's been the Smokescreen I would like to refer to it as of them taking two or maybe even Justin Herbert in this spot and I think that during draft time there is always going to be takes like this and it's not like last year with the cardinals and there was so many signs pointing to them. Moving on from Josh Rosen and taking cuyler. Murray and it made sense because Murray was a significant upgrade over Josh Rosen specifically for that offense well in this case. I really don't see them needing quarterback as much and it's the same situation as it was for the cardinals if Ron Rivera really wanted to change and shake up the quarterback room this much. As far as taking a better talent and Dwayne Haskins he would have gone out and signed Cam Newton by now. And that's a player that he is associated with for a very long time. But Kim Newman remains a free agent. Duane. Haskins still remains the number one quarterback in that room so that is really just an intent to try and get one of these quarterback hungry teams to trade up which is really the biggest stirring motion for these these next three to four picks in the top five. Yeah the other possibility we haven't really talked about. Is Jeffrey Okuda? Who kind of like an offensive tackle. Washington needs a cornerback. They traded away their best one and they do have a formidable front seven. They've got a good defensive line. Montas sweat was coming on at the end of last year. Not much was made of it but he did have seven stacks. He does own the fastest sack in the league last year. So if he is starting to harness that incredible athleticism he has. Maybe they could convince themselves that they don't need chase young. That reinforcing the secondary would pay big dividends. But Chase Young is. He has the potential to be a real spark plug and just a monster with the rest of their front seven and considering Ron Rivera Jack del Rio. The kinds of defenses date likes run. I wouldn't I would honestly be surprised if it was anything other than chase. Young truce young certainly seems to be the clear indication for them. Just like Joe Borough seems to be the best bet for the Cincinnati. Bengals things start to get a little bit more straight here at the third pick with the Detroit lions because this is where things could drastically change because Jeff Okuda if chase young does not slide and ends up going to the Redskins Jeff. Okuda makes a lot of sense. They recently traded Darius slay to the eagles so upgrading and bringing in a guy that can step in and start right away makes a ton of sense. There's comparisons of him to Stefan Gilmore in terms of his impact. And if you can get a guy like that who can step in and play right away like a Jalen Ramsey or Denzel award or Marshon Lattimore. You can significantly upgrade your defense. So Jeff Okuda's imply. Derrick Brown is also employed but also if they read into the fact that the giants really really want is Ahah Simmons they could also choose to take Simmons here. If there's just all the options that are available are taking defensive guy to boost things for a defensive minded head coach and Matt Patricia Yeah It is interesting to look at the second third picks in the draft. And say okay. This is what's going to happen here than this is. What's going to happen there? But if you the more you look at these picks the more you look at these teams the more options and potential options and potential scenarios. Start to present themselves. If it should be Jeffrey Khuda basically everything they have done signals that they are looking at Kuda as their primary target. But if chase young happens to be on the board. I don't know how you not pick him. If you're the lions if a Kuda is off the board then gliding. Taft will have to choose between Chase Young. Derrick Brown and both of those guys have just monstrous potential and I think you could possibly even throw John King Law at a South Carolina basically into that mix as well and really only a tiny tiny step back from Derrick Brown. He isn't getting as much talk as you probably should the national level but I just watch his tape folks. He is a monster and if you recall. The lions recently moved on from a former New York giant Demon Harrison. Who was their nose tackle? And Derrick Brown has a very different and also kinloch have very different skill sets than Damon Harrison. They're not profoundly these middle of the defense plugging run stuffers. But they have that in their skill set and there are a little bit more versatile they can do other additional things just basically space eaters first and foremost so moving on from Damon Harrison. Who's a veteran? They may be popping in? One of these defensive tackles is something that they're considering. Maybe that's part of the reason why chose to get rid of and move on and not bring back Damon Harrison because they knew at the top of the draft if they sit where they are at three and Jason's off the board we can going at their brown and we can get either an upgrade or at least the same level of play in his first year by bringing him and then the final option that we really have to talk about that. We discuss pretty much with all of these picks besides the Cincinnati Bengals of having the possibility and that is trading back because of how many quarterback needed teams there are how many teams that are towards the middle of the draft. That want to get that young guy to build their franchise around. There's always a chance that it seemed like the Miami Dolphins The Los Angeles chargers the Las Vegas Raiders. You know heck even if there's a possibility you probably wouldn't happen. Teams like the Pittsburgh steelers of the Indianapolis Colts but because they don't have first rounders they can't trade their way up into a position draft a guy but lions like like the redskins before them have a shot to get a good deal that allows them to trade back so someone could take two or Herbert end. Really Trades have to be considered with each of the second third and fourth picks. Really when we talk about the obe rules and value with the draft trading back is almost always the right choice just because that is how you can really maximize the value of a pick. You look at what the Indianapolis Colts did back in two thousand eighteen when they turned the third overall pick in two really a bunch of pro bowl caliber players by trading. Back to six in getting three second round picks. So if if you can entertain a trade back. If there isn't a player you have to have like if if your team doesn't need a quarterback and there is another team willing to trade up at work out a deal with you. Take that deal unless something happens in a player like chase young just a player premium position with talent. You just cannot ignore false. Trading back really is a very lucrative option here for these teams from two three to four and I. I think that there is a pretty strong likelihood that at least one of these teams. I think there will be one team the traits back because of a good offer from one of these teams who wants to secure their quarterback of the future. We're going to talk about the next pick the New York giants but before we get to that. We're GONNA take a very short commercial break as you probably assume the one pick that we're looking at the most here for the reason of this is a show that covers the New York. Giants is this fourth overall. Pick for the giants. And that's the reason why we broke down in disgust. The three picks in front of them. Because how does this shape up for the giants? How does everything a look ahead of them? And if certain guys are taken what is in play for them and Chase. Young probably will not make it this far. It would be very shocking. It would require multiple trades up by teams to take quarterbacks. The you'd need to for that to happen. And then young would fall to four but the the likelihood of that happening is probably not that high. It would take a lot for that to happen. The same thing with Okuda if if the Trades Jeff Okuda could also fall in b. m. play here for the giants but it just seems like the two smartest decisions is either taking attack electricity worse or whoever they have the highest graded or Isaiah Simmons to immediately impact and start on their defense. Yeah the the giants first option should be getting down on their knees lighting a candle praying hoping doing what ever they can to appease the football gods that would of those Ohio state players happens to fall to them because those guys could have just an absolutely massive impact on the giants defense. A coup secondary chase young would basically instantly provide a pass rush giants. Just do not have right now. We kind of been planning all up until the last month or so the season for the giants to be taking young kind of imagining what he would look like in giants blue. What number he would wear since fifty-six as out and then they won a couple of games and slip down to fourth overall but now there is at least a glimmer of hope maybe kind of hopefully somehow hope that winning a couple of games won't actually hurt them and they could get the player they really desperately need but in the real world. That probably will not happen. So we're left with Isaiah. Simmons and whichever offensive tackle on our personal physician board generic wills came out first Jesuits came out as ot one just because he probably has the best blend of technique consistency athleticism and he also plays a position. Naturally that the giants just do not have a starter at right now. So that is the pick there. We've also heard tristen worse for the giants. We heard that quite a bit. And then Isaiah Simmons. We've been over him a couple of times to say the least on this show. He would give them just so many options and so much versatility on defense. I'm not sure the giants could go wrong either way though I will say taking the Taking Isaiah Simmons would mean that they have to hope that there is a starting caliber. Offense tackled there for them in the second round that there isn't in an incredible run on tackles after them in the first round they have to hope that. Washington doesn't take as Cleveland at the top of the second round or Neang or print takeaway elbow prints taken with one of those guys. Is there and yet? That is a gamble but having simmons might make that gamble worthwhile and I think what would really need for the giants to take Simmons would be. They have him graded above. Whatever tackle is there? I tackle by a significant margin but also like you said they're going to have to have this forward thinking outlook of well. How do we grave? The second round tackles and we were talking about this before the show that it's really based on preference and and how teams have grade certain guys because there's certain guys that are probably going to be and should be early second round prospects but code fall to the third round just because of how these teams are viewing them It's a bit of a toss up and there's very little consensus about. Who is that early? Second round tackle prospect. Who are the best available guys early on in the second round so for the giants if they can't talk themselves into taking at least one or two those guys early in the second round if they're available or like maybe risking assuming that Josh Jones could slide that far or someone like Lucas and Yang? Not being taken early on in the late in the first round rather they would need all of that to happen and they would also need to be able to talk themselves into. I said taking one of those guys early on in the Second Round. If they can't do that they're going to need and they probably will take a tackle your because they don't WanNa risk not having that opportunity to fix and finally solidified their offensive line in addition to that if they can say to themselves well early in the second round. Maybe we can get a guy like Jeremy Chin. Who isn't the same player as Simmons but we can use him defensively in various situations. He's unique he's has a rare physical build is not going to give the same impact. But he'll be a quality starter. It's all about how the outlook is going to be instead of just being so focused and honed in on this one pick and who's available yet this is going to be a unique draft. I think it's going to wind up being a kind of crazy wild draft where there are going to be picks that kind of come out of left field come out of the blue that we just do not see coming just because the draft process has been really completely derailed from what it normally is teams. Weren't really able to visit with prospects. Go work them out of Pro Days. Have them to their facilities for visits and interviews and also we had A. I don't know if it was a record or not but we had a lot of prospects elect to not work out at the combine this year. Chase young didn't really work out. Derrick Brown didn't do much Devan Kinloch didn't do much. The tackles did but there were really a lot of prospects who didn't run didn't jump didn't do the agility drills so there. There is a lot of data that teams normally used as maybe not decision makers but to either confirm what they saw on tape or give them reason to go back and look at tape again that they just don't have and also the draft is going to be done remotely. There aren't going to be war rooms. Decision makers general managers coaches scouts are all going to be spread out and teams are going to have to have a real definite concrete plan or things could get really weird and then of course with the giants that we've discussed and we get tons of questions about this that we would choose not to answer all of them because we've had so many questions about it is that they could still seek a trade to move back and it's significantly based on if any of these teams above the giants move out of their picks if one of them does it opens things up for a team like the chargers or the dolphins to negotiate with the giants so they can beat out the other team from getting the guys that they want. There's a chance that both of them really like to our both of them really like just in Herbert and they don't want to risk the opposing team. Getting in that comes right into right into transitioning to the Miami Dolphins the final pick for this top five. It seems like their situation. Here is trying to trade up at all costs beating out the Los Angeles chargers from taking the top quarterback on their board. Whether it's to a or just herbert or even Jordan love. If they're that high on Jordan love they need to make up or hope that the chargers don't make a move to trade up and that they're guy ends up being there on the board for them at five? I really cannot imagine them going in any other direction then quarterback because two years in to the new regime of Brian. Flora's you need to start building towards that future. And you're not GonNa do that with Ryan Fitzpatrick. They're not really that. All in on Josh Rosen. They were starting Ryan Patrick for most of last year. He's not going to be there starter. Long-term now is the time for them to take someone waiting. Further down in the draft is just going to have negative consequences so they need to take whoever there is within these top five picks by any means necessary absolutely and trading up does carry risk it caries risk every year but especially this year because of how much we are missing especially with to US injury. He put out the video a week to two weeks ago of him yet moving throwing and he looked good but team still want to be able to look at him in person has their doctors go over him and really find out where in his recovery he is what his hip looks like how he how he is healing just all of those things that could could should will give them confidence that he can be starting quarterback again and for long-term but Miami might not have the option of not trading especially if the chargers do jump them or if they're even afraid the chargers might jump them. There are really two quarterbacks other than Joe Borough that are worthy of trading for and. That's to an herber. It's possible that we could see either Miami or the chargers trade up for one of those quarters Quarterbacks at second overall and that could trigger the other ones trade up at third overall just to make sure they get him and some other team doesn't come out of the blue with a surprise trade. You know we could see the raiders do that. It seems like Jacksonville. Wants to develop Gardner Menchu but we could also see them trade up they have they have the AMMO. They have the picks to move so it is possible that one trade could trigger another trade just because they don't have any other choice which could wind up. Even if the giants aren't able to trade back being very good for the giants. Well now folks. You have an understanding of what could happen for any of these top five teams including the New York giants all of the options that are in play all the guys that horror potentials for the giants to take at that fourth spot as well as who could go before them. If you think there's any situations we happen to miss on or did not discuss and you want to dive into them. Feel free to send us a DM at Jodi Leone or at Raptor N. K. I. R. Into the Facebook Page big blue view. And we'll discuss them on the mailbag show at the end of the weekend on Wednesday. We're going to be talking about the top of the second round and what could be in play who could be available. Who could go before the giants all of that? Good stuff for the second round because that's where things really get interesting like. We talked about earlier on the show. Sure it'll rates subscribe wherever you're listening to. Us and falls on Social Media Big Lou view and also stay tuned for Wednesday where we talked about the top of the second round. Hi I'm Brian. And I'm one of the hosts of the Amazing Avenue Network of podcasts. Each week day we bring you a different podcasts. The covers the New York mets from a different perspective every Monday. You could hear me Steve. Along with Ken. Lucas on from complex mcleans where we discussed the mets minor league system. Every Tuesday an unforgettable. Join me rebel. They look back on the career of a less. Heralded Minute Hi. I'm Allison Eid. Along with Maggie and Linda. I host a pot of their own each week. We look at all things. Mets and social justice issues in baseball. I'm Chris and you can catch Brian me chatting about the current state of the mets on Amazing Avenue audio the show every Thursday and then. Friday's we have amazing avenue in conversation where I top with interesting people about the New York mets. So check out the amazing avenue. Family of PODCASTS. You can get us on apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher or your podcast tr- of choice and as always. Let's go mets.