Hello and welcome to spy hards declassified where we bring you d latest spy intel straight for mount mysterious spy network but remember this information is strictly for your is only i'm agent scope and i'm cam the provocateur before we tackle the exciting film. We have lined up this week. I think we should explain what spy hans declassified is. Yeah i was curious why you're calling me. This is very inconvenient scott. I'm very busy right now. I get this abuse time guys. i'm. I'm i'm sorry for it. Okay so for me spy. Hans declassified is basically. it's not going to be an every week. Show is basically when we have the opportunity like we do this week. We're going to bring you the fresh take on a failed summit we have just watched. We talk about the noc list. It will be particularly in-depth behind the scenes information. But i think it's more of a fresh off the cuff take on what we saw about them or off. The cuff link vertigo. James bond style. Yeah this is an opportunity for us to give those first takes on newer movies. You know kind of that weekend kind of idea. We're looking forward in the future to doing movies. Like no time to die or a black widow but we have something a little bit different. I guess to launch this series right. Scott that's right. We were talking to the team over amazon prime and again. We want to thank them for this opportunity. And they basically give us an early screening of the film with tackling this week. Which is the curry from. A twenty twenty it came out in cinemas now being released on paid. Vod on the day of release this episode. Which would be friday. The sixteenth of april twenty twenty one and also. They have set up an interview with director of the film which is fantastically with talking to directors dominic cooke which we will be speaking to very shortly the episode. And then we'll come back and we'll talk about film symbol. Yeah that's i think it'd be a fun way to tackle this very interesting movie absolutely so i think before we fly over to the interview. Cam lets cookie. Just say what the film is and then you can tell us a bit more about. The director is well well. The courier basically is a cold war. Spy story about gravel win. Who was a salesman in england in the sixties during the time of the cuban missile crisis of ics roped into a spy story in russia With some Quite serious consequences. Who tell me more. Scott or maybe. Don't let's talk to the director about that and we're gonna talk yes to dominate cook. So dominant cokie fairly new to the film world but has a very rich theater background. He was a director and writer in theater He worked for the royal shakespearean company. The royal court Again this is one of the titans odd theater industry and he hasn't made a lot of films. He's done a couple adaptations of the plays. But i guess is is first real like film was on chessel beach starring tricia ronin. Who was in hannah a movie. We tackled early on in this podcast So i'm looking forward to talking to dominant cook about this movie and the fascinating story. That inspired it yeah. I wasn't too familiar with him. I'm not a big theater guy myself. Speaking with milo the hoffy why she watched the film with me. She pointed out. I had seen the holder crown which he made for bbc tv and i had seen on chessel beaches. Well he actually recent did not up. Tation of ma rainey's black bottom a couple of years ago. Which is now been done to netflix. So of course right right. For over to the interview. Now we'll come back and speak about the film camera. Roll the clip and we are joined by the director of the courier. Dominant cook dominic. Thank you for joining today. Thanks for having me now. I realize our time is short so we are gonna fire some questions at us fast as we can. But i'll starts off as we basically we just review fail monday episode and the first thing i really wanted to know is what brought you to this film. What got you interested in telling the story. Well i sent script with the big pilot script semi agents in the. Us just saw finished film. And they were gonna get you next though. Okay and i read punchy. And i just love this fit. I just egypt up. That soyuz extraordinary. I didn't even know it was a true story. There's nothing in the script. Said this is a true story of is sort of interest. And then at the end of the i found out that he was sort of the research. But i think to me in the end. What really so for me was the that it had to the will and most stories There are so many spy movies are solve the have the coldness of the count Is the center of the action of the film. But you don't get much almost personal cost of Relationships the personal relationships at the heart of it and because this story bolt as a regular person rather than a trained operative Allowed spice for that. I'm that that really sort of moved me and brought me to Okay so interested. We tackle spy movies every week. And they're such an established tone to spy movies. I'm curious if you were looking at any you know spy films for influence. Or if there's anything you kind of had in mind when you were tackling this project will. We didn't look at a few in the one that really stood out with society came in from a colt Because we will look in mostly actually have seen a lot of other spiders chunk we will look in most periods Maybe insane kind of tyne. And i loved about that was associates completely unglamorous will portray a routine really rothem plus and i thought. Oh that feels a bit more lights. Something more rail and we'll see how to sustain slows and intensity to it was brilliant. I had seen it years ago actually came back to it And actually otherwise that the influences on the film were more from hitchcock and other types of movies from the periods Then they're not the spy movies particularly particularly hitchcock movies. That jumped out. Well the one. The one i looked at my age anyways my notice from quite well The one looks lot with north by northwest which hot because it was around the same time was made around the same time as the events of the movie said because he said good at getting walters like to be in a situation. That is beyond your control and that of strange paranoid. I mean it is a registered to this movie. But i think that's so amazing about film you are constantly trying to catch up with what has over other. He's on johnny. Cut shop harry wrong and we it really difference. I thought about shooting a movie because Because walt he does i mean the example i would is one secrets that really close these incredible secrets in the In the cornfields the crop sprayer and and how he construct slats which is very tickle in. He still uses three camera angles. One is wide shop which isolates the person in the setting. So you've gotten have honorability you go to the reaction on quite quite tired. Cary wrong and then you get the clean. Pov which we used a lot clean points-of-view trace seeing the world through the eyes of the protagonists and the combination of those three types of shot. We used a lot in this movie. and h is in the shower scene. It's an old back. Combination is in all the key incident and it's magic nation. Because is you'll the information. Adrian but claimed heavy is so valuable in the mix. Because it really does put you into the boots. The character And if you look at the way we did arrive in the app or for example in moscow waste abuse that seat that combination. Yeah so my next question kind of follows on from the first one. Which was you'll i is getting into the film. And you mentioned you was handed the script and you hit knows a real story at the time but once you got into that and the the prices have actually putting it on the screen. How did you deal with it being a real story and translating that to the screen. It's such a complex question. Because you've got you've got your loyalty to the real people. And i thank you so i've got all the spirit very least of who they are. What happens But at the same time you've got to make something that's compressed. Huge he compressed. If you're tv series much space just get into the nuances. And they'd sort of sort of be be subplots in order that you have fallen last time. You've got to compress everything right down and you've got us to make something exciting so you know you'll tool but what are we trying to bring those two items together and i always feel if you're doing something that's drawn real life. You really do need to do your research and you need to act in. It's totally pragmatic response in what you find. You've gotta only really use to stop. It's gonna in home the bell and if you if you if you got the key thing He's you need guiding principle by which you can head it out information snotty spoke. So you've gotta decide what gonna make. It happens when people do novels. Same thing happens because if you do a novel novels like how long does it take to read an oval dates. But you get down to charge you which we want to talk about so grass. We sort of started the friendship and essential of the story being axes on which the whole thing and the about being the hall the movie so that in the amazing processor that we didn't get into it and then once i started doing the reading it was so interesting. I mean it was fascinating. I'm there were elements of research. That i found the defend in the movie and shaped on staying things and other bits netflix. Behind and of course you'll know the really hard thing about research like that. This is by. Its very exciting. Necessity secret that there is a lot of sort of fake news and actually the propaganda around this particular story would hew especially soviet union. Russia will actually happened. They what is accepted that is the soviet special events which was totally constructed to define penkovsky. It's it's totally fake. They had ecstatic show trial and there was. Don't kim entry made in the maybe seventies about it. In the soviet era unacquainted authorities was signed virus issue. So high up so much information to the west they had to do stuff to sort of help and get away and And they detained him and that version of events is now so when we went over to cost the movie we were getting quite how combat or people about what type of tracy was had wasn't hero until his decorates times he'd been in office. These things were put into a tv documentary compact and so. that's dist willful distortion Of the story and the very shooting happened with with a win. Which was that. You would slow home to shot by my sixty. Because otherwise they would take away pension as he was going on television on writing books with telling the truth and self aggrandizing. Fictions meant that the story was really an accessible as a brilliant book by he saved the world which i can't quite late in my research which is based on the cia papis which released in the ninety s so that was the first of was tightly rooted in concrete. Great information credit helpful. Because you know you've got your script but you need to sit on the stand of the big event and that was that was found useless. I'm curious the setting for this movie in the locations were beautiful. I thought the mood that came through. Those locations was really really effective. And i'm just curious. What the challenges you faced recreating you know. Cold war era moscow in this film. Yeah that was quite hard. I mean I had actually been soviet russia in the eighties trick which was an unbelievably helpful. But say it was even then sewed different anything i had seen before and since that it would have helped me and that she live productions so border be talking about my sleep. Have running ads retarded patients out there. I'd going on about the key lady in the hotel. will there. Were so many things that sewage and unique we tried to get into the the movie But yeah we went to quite a few paces which kiss we went to belarus minsk. We nearly chalk actually do two days. Because it's it's a monument talon as it extrordinary. Kgb that it's still in that era A very strange lights and they still gonna solve thirty foot nine in stock shoes left so we were gonna do exteriors that it turned out that we couldn't get so it wasn't reliable because the promise the access bills needed we showed it all in prague. Some of he's some of rescreen screen or vantage. approx got a lot of brilliant architecture and we. Yeah we serve huge amount research. I mean you know the props or fantastic. We tried to get everything absolutely bang on to get the feel of that world As accuracy possibly could But i have to say the fact that i had been and i've been rush since the various reasons for work. was very helpful. Because it's it's i think such a different culture atmosphere in russia to to to western europe That use of of need to easy what. I'm quick question about just benedict cumberbatch. I mean he's one of the for me the best things about the his fullness fantastic but what was it like directing him and direct team through that process because the physical change he goes relate run the film's very jarring in that. That that flip film takes that point. You say oh so. How was that. Just directing benedict in coaching well. He's i want him a few times before and he's very The self correcting he's a very good storytelling sense. I actually very director said that suits him because he's he student knows it's quiet story. Wise freesheet and a very physical so we sort of creates kind ges designate. As a lot of. I mean he looked a lot. The real preval win not lots of including win ship about who he really was because he was very working background from wales and he had a very operational slightly pushy grandiose mother wanted best ourself on in and he ended up marrying someone who's upper middle class living in chelsea but he slide restore to which i think is one of the reasons why connecting says the costea. He is like switch it by very severe dyslexia which at the time course understood or recognized kids who had to sexy news a school near during this whole festival and he was put to the back of the costs and and treated like he was stupid When he clearly was all and we noticed in the photographs of win every single. I about the any point in his life. He will the same time and We did our homework. I don't know how we found this out. This was not made found out someone in the woods. Drive team out the tie that he will was the nauseam university. Talk right And he had not actually attended nothing university however he had attended some lectures that as an outside engineering because that was his special special. Is you couldn't go in because it's dyslexia. And i just thought that was a. We boast fast on that as a clue actually redid newlyweds. Tired of seeing what. What i thought was so interesting was what kind of a passer is that needs to defend themselves strongly. You know from also of sort of put their status out there when they clearly hadn't really got that status and and i think you know he did sense. It's nothing recognized. In a way that i think see how exactly the same sense the very different And i think that that's selective Grievance was paused dynamic. select for them as a as a parent. I had a question about jessie buckley. Whose definitely emerging as a major talent and so many times when you see these real life stories translated to the screen. There's the wife at home character which feels so underdeveloped. I'm just really curious about the efforts you took because this character really did have a really interesting and dynamic role throughout the movie especially the built as the movie kept going. I'm really curious about the development of that character. When you're putting this together thank you. It was is really hard what you're describing it's perennial question of the moment really comes up a lot of the moment when you're thinking about how do you tell the truth about the post where it was white guys who were approaching the world. The owner the stories property of the people who don't that concentrate and So it's really tricky because we you know we we want focusing on her story I mean i have to say that. We were so lucky jesse because jesse of old people in the film is the person most different. She's playing she sought just sort of grounded. Open free spirit. she's not. There's nothing about buttoned up or hidden or indirect. Jesus for here. I am and she's also way way way younger than the character and yet east someone who is much older than she is I think that was that she absolutely reached outside road. Third time area into that period totally goldblatt sort of upper middle class top tight sense the emotions wrong and expression feelings role and unfortunately still exists in the uk. Now i think you could say i think there was a sea change. When princess diana died suddenly right to express being a public. It is part of our heritage. Is the parts of the public school system and she got that with a great thing addresses. She's so florida feeling herself. That the contrast between those qualities is what makes the performance. Really interesting. We tried as much as we could give her agency and we wrote a bunch of scenes of the ended up dropping what she was still doing stuff more in the world's i mean within herod's fatty narrow world women who was working at that time would have been like about extraneous. And you didn't shoot me yet But we tried as much as possible of challenging him pushing him and demanding. That'll be true. She eighty cents that she was some sort passage at sick. I'm aware of the time. So i have a couple of quick fire questions at the end if you don't mind Echoes so okay. Save this non courier related. This is this is spy film. So what is your favorite spy film of all time. You know what. I'm saying tv series of tinker tailor. Okay oh yeah. i'm sorry. It's breaking the rules that we liked that we like that. It's usually probably now. Looks really really clunky. And wobbly sets but i think the acting and this quick chain of thought was brilliance in terms of tension. Dykes and that's a false pulse with really that i love the ball movies i love that stuff bots i would say that. Yeah well you've led me onto the next question. Which is of course james bond. Who is your james bond while. Wow i thought next will be james norton but i'm not so sure now. Favorite the favorite. Sean connery this no. It's not what mean the conversation. They're just there is no one better and you know i watched I watched recently What was it nope He's such a he's such an interesting character because he's got the source of he's got that sort of Masculinity but really is a sensuality about this almost feminine. And i don't mean feminine. I mean this is the sensuality celebrity on a which i think. He's no price Camera you slightly by mumbled. So who's yours. Come just quickly. i always say connery's the best but roger moore is kind of my favorite. That's the one that brought me into the franchise. I get back. Because i grew up with right jamal. And the he seventy become heraldic in the end didn't it the lack of which stint pounds. Oh totally totally align very thin between austin powers at roger bower films right. Yeah that's what. I should have my favorite slimy. I'm getting the question i have is. What's coming up you next It's really hard to say. I've got the so like it's like being in the he trap gonna do at traffic control now idea when they can land but Film wise there's a a film of stephen sondheim's musical follies which is like they don't station so script. That which is about white from this you could possibly get but infrequent room for the peace and then as a a a a film that's on trying to produce the company off sets up fiction else and the film is a sort of. It's sort of drawn promotes really wonderful. Would with the film's intelligent comedy. Eight on an old world site erotica and intelligent people And using london as a romantic six He's a lovely script. He's very hadn't on. Who quote funny. It's very funny so so very different projects on. I don't know which one will line i. I'm hoping something will happen next year by tonight. It's so a given up making plans. I mean does impossible. The more you invest in the plan. The more disappoint you jerk in the but i'm hopeful some quite so we can bay. These days is hopeful. Yes well. I mean on behalf of canada myself. I want to thank you for the film. Firstly it's just nice to see a new film right now something different and fresh and new and it was a joy to watch it and it's been enjoyed spoke to you. Thanks so much guys. I really enjoyed that. So that was all chat with director dominic cooke now can. This is off first time doing a fresh. Take on a film if you will. So what did you think of the courier. I really enjoyed this movie. I thought it was a really solid spy thriller. I went into it without having any idea. Really what it even was and you know. I searched online. Apparently had an earlier title iron bark that has been switched on at least for north american release. Maybe international release even but that was the working title. And so i really didn't know what to expect and benedict. Cumberbatch is a guy who we really like on the podcast. He's i think friend to the espionage genre. He signed on to thirty-nine steps remained fairly recently. I am so. I kinda sat down. Not knowing what to expect. Irons really sucked into this movie. In this a true life story of a win. Who was just like this. Unassuming businessman who got roped into an espionage game that had huge stakes in this case. It's the you know the cuban missile crisis. So i was. I guess following along throughout this movie having no idea where it was going which is a lot of find like. I'm glad that i was ignorant to history that i didn't bother to read this. History book story Because this movie actually really was gripping and what i think was the most effective for me was. There's a lot of movies that are recreation of historical events. Sometimes they can be a little dry. What i thought was really effective about this one was that it was about the friendship between gravel win and his contact this Who is a possibly going to defect named oleg penkovsky and how that relationship really forms the heart of this movie and i mean we've talked about spy films in the past will in the future that are quite i and when you get to these kind of labyrinthine cold war plots sometimes the characters feel kind of aloof in a little tough to connect with and i found that this would be really overcame that with our relationship. What about you. I was somewhat hesitant going into this film. Just because i tend to have trouble with these more espionage release these john lecarr as that sort of weld the old like the end the dayton's as well with the harry. Promise maybe no billion dollar brain Crazy towards the end but at the funeral in berlin the gritty reality of being a spy. But will i actually go. I was really pulled into From the get go. I have to say i mean we'll get to performance slightly wrong benedict. Cumberbatch is the star of this film. He told me in immediately. This unassuming guy. He's obviously goes live so it out. He's a salesman and the us and the uk government. Lean on. this guy. I think it's very fair. And he is pulled into this spy flow and he has to deal with some awful consequences later on in the film. Yeah there's a great moment where they're actually recruiting him and it's just played out on his face as he's like kind of just like stunned like you want me to do what and it's played very tense and i liked it. There was always the sense of a guy who is not really up for this job not qualified whatsoever. He's not being given the whole picture. Because it's not really even safe to do that and it doesn't ever try to pivot into suddenly. He's a super capable agent. This really is a man thrown into a very tense political situation. Yes he's very unassuming guy. He says his life so now he's live with his wife and child is obstacle policy. Talk about in the film. But he eventually developed his bond which you mentioned earlier this brotherly connection with the oleg penkovsky character Ultimate life trying to save the world in their own little way. That's one of the messages of this film is two men can make a difference or two people. I should say yeah. It has a humanity to it that i really appreciate it because again going back to what i was saying in my intro there where i just said a lot of time. These cold war ones can be pretty chilly. This will be really goes out of. Its way to make these characters feel fleshed out and sympathetic in some way. You know Oleg who's played by merriman itchy That is a character that eat a lot of films. Older films tackling. This sort of story play. The russian characters as stoic to the point of being unreadable and often that comes across as cold and movies and i felt they found the real humanity in this character and that you could understand how these two guys is thrust into this. Very unfortunate situation would bond. Despite the fact they are very different. Like the differences feel like they're broached within the film in a way that i completely bought it doesn't feel like a hollywood relationship but i would agree with that but at the same time. They highlight the similarities between these people that live in complete different countries on different sides of high stakes. Game of russian roulette. If you pardon. The russian pawn the erlichs family his wife and kid and the stakes for him as well and i think that's what drew me into the Original question while i thought about the film i really enjoyed it. I think it was the relationship between the two. i know it will highlight again by the next performance. The kept me going through this hour. Fifty minutes of what could have been in different hands and my head to the director as well dominic in. What could have been a very chilly and onions attaining story. Yeah because sometimes when you're dealing with this sort of material it can get bogged down in details and i thought You know cook in his writer. Tom o'connor were really good at managing to create a story out of something that could get very complex. I mean the whole scenario in the situation was like Oleg manage to send over like five thousand documents to the brits into the americans regarding the situation of the nuclear powers that russia was Potentially wielding in the cold war and again that could lead to a very complex movie when you're talking about five thousand documents. How many trips as back and forth. But i thought the movie did a really good job at just streamlining the story to make it engrossing and building up the characters in the relationships. Because we've seen so many of these movies where the characters feel often like chess pieces in a larger game and that can work but in a story like this where it is based on factual events. I think you want to feel more of that human touch. Why found to be quite interesting as well if he looked at the film's we've covered so far. We haven't really done anything in this. I quoted espionage thriller. Maybe that's a good title for. I don't know but we've never gone down this avenue just yet we have touched on it. Lightly would has a hitchcock films of kind of brushed on this but nothing. That's gone the full sean. Carre yeah I mean you could say some of the harry palmer's may be funeral in berlin sort of wanders into this sorta territory but no we haven't done some of the serious stuff we have a couple of coming up on our list It's gonna be to dive into those types of films in comparison to some of the things we've done in the past but you're right like this did feel somewhat different than the movies. We've tackled thus far. I think that's probably helped to with my enjoyment. But i was again surprised because as i said i'm more of a pub coal action film kinda guy so i i would always tend to go for my james bond's more than my harry palmer's sorry cam. I'm not offended So i was as. I said i was worried going into it but they create a story that i cared about and carrots is like head about and in a setting which was quite impressed with is i created. This world felt real. It's based on real story. But i think again it's no tip of the the director because set-pieces the you know everything that i feel like the sixties it didn't ever feel out of place the performances felt tight and i felt drawn into this wealth that they create and also the location work in. Prague is really beautiful like this movie has some fantastic locations. It has the atmosphere of your classics by story. Where you get to see benedict cumberbatch. You know wondering into these kind of remote looking areas of of moscow and how terrifying it. The situations often look. It's a pretty great. Dr location work here. This movie has genuine atmosphere. It really does. That definitely helps to in some. The i was just checking on my notes about actually really carries. all the way through is Duality between the two main characters. You've got one living in this opulent western world this communist world and the stock contrast between the two and you think about like the fluffy life benedict cumberbatch character. Living and then you have a penkovsky who in the second scene you see. See someone get cooked to death right in front of him right. Yeah oh yeah. I think that's effective in establishing why he's in so much danger and white bennett. Comeback could be a lot of danger by taking on this mission but also sets you up for knowing where this character's fate may lie at the end of the movie. Yeah i think we should point out as well in terms of the real life story on what we saw on the screen here. So this is by says i said on real life story between these people and in the end you see an interview with the real Will win which is quite interesting and and they did potentially prevent the you know the cuban missile crisis from escalating any further. They potentially save billions of lives. Yeah yeah now i. This is something for me. That i maybe found a little lacking i found that you like atmosphere. This movie very much sucked being. And i love the character journey. But did you feel the real tension of the The cuban missile crisis in this movie. No particularly i. I know you're coming from on that. There was like news clips i. The background is. Attention was upping throughout the film. I didn't really feel any major overhanging tension. There was definitely like a sense of. I was who cool it. William with nineteen ninety-four the either in the wolves watching as only scenes of benedict cumberbatch. Checking for bugs in his room and having to make conversation whilst music is playing in the background so they can't be picked up. That's quite interesting and definitely makes everything feel a bit like the wolves are coming in on the but in terms of the cold war keep missile crisis tension. I didn't feel that as much better. Yeah because the movie does a fantastic job. Establishing on that anyone can be the eyes of you know russia like anyone could be reporting these guys. And so there's a lot of work done with just watching benedict cumberbatch stroll through a scene and it builds that tension like i felt that danger throughout the movie. So it's not a criticism necessarily of the movie feeling flat in terms of being dramatically tents. Because you get that in smaller more subtler ways but in terms of that escalating danger of the cuban missile crisis. I felt like that didn't quite connect much and you know this isn't a high budget movie. They weren't gonna be out there re staging sections of the cuban missile crisis. So you're right. They are working with Clips of jfk. Talking on the news. And what have you giving his addresses But that was one element rice said. Like ooh like if we could just maybe Pull up that tension a little bit more. I think i would be even more sucked in. I think there's a crisis point where they try and get penkovsky out of russia where he can defect to the west and that's the point where everything so flips and has definitely shift in target in the film because all the main characters are in russia Arrested the basically thrown into prison except for rachel brosnahan character who has diplomatic immunity. And you know a main character now in prison being stripped naked shaved down. Mistreated miss fed ends up losing a ton of whites. Which i wanna get to it in. A minute is in terms of bendix performance with that i felt that had level attention to it just the unknown of being in that prison. Yeah i mean. I didn't know the story going in and at this point i was really thrown for a loop. I really thought this was going to end with the two guys. Living happily ever after in the us or britain or whatever you know like i didn't have any idea where the story was going to go and Yeah i mean that's where a lot of attention attention comes from the characters throughout this movie and that's why it's so effective and yeah everything to deal with him. You know with With win being sent to prison in russia was it was harsh and the movie didn't pull its punches now did not Speaking of didn't necessarily quite work for me. I the other main character. We haven't responded to about is rachel. Brosnahan has character of emily donovan who plays the cia liaison between america and the uk and she's dead throughout most of the film just giving tips and directing Winds says resist being journey. And i didn't feel like she delivered particularly fullness. I felt like she wasn't really there. Okay that's interesting I think it's a challenge when you're playing the composite character because This this character was several people in real life right. Sometimes it doesn't translate great when you create a new character out of whole cloth for the movie. Because you start to go like this character feels like a movie character. In comparison to the other figures who feel like they're living a human story and That was kinda how. I felt with her I thought she was very effective in the scenes where she's fighting for them. You know where she really is wanting to accomplish this mission. I bought her conviction in those scenes. But it was more to me. The character's function often felt a little too little too neat. That may have actually been the thing i bumped on. It felt clean like she wasn't really involved in the well to dislike putting up and the easing about like bandits. Come character iran Broken down she looked completely clean immaculate. And i've actually been watching Recently in the marvelous. Mrs maisel all amazon and i can. I've seen her range. She can do everything. Rachel brosnahan terrific Indictment on her. I guess it might offend somebody to with the capture on page. Maybe what i appreciate though was with this character who could have easily been an exposition machine. They gave her moments of actual connection with the character. He said okay. This is at least working on a one to one basis. Like i understand how she relates to number batches character and you know benedict. Cumberbatch is characters. A wife is played by jessie buckley. Who is in the netflix will be. I'm thinking of ending things This past year. I don't know time has merged together during covid. So i don't even know if it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one i think is twenty twenty but You know often you have the wife at home. And that's the character though wife at home but i felt like they really gave this character quite a bit to do at a certain point and you have scenes with her. End the rachel brosnahan character where it felt like they were giving these two something to do just by playing off of each other in a scene so while i i agree like the you know. The composite character is a little awkward If felt like they were trying. They're trying to do something whereas a lot of movies would have just kind of wedged into had been like i deal with it. I can definitely understand that Into my head where rachel brosnahan character. Emily's consoling jesse character. Sheila 'cause benedict cumberbatch Cats imprisoned by this point. And she's telling her like don't give any information away to the press but without actually saying. Oh he's actually a by like she's eating her in the right direction to protect her and benedict cumberbatch character and playing the game and she actually sends out the british male spy. Moss out of the room kushner's econ handle. So compensation she's clearly in charge knows what she's doing. I appreciate that performance. Say yeah yeah like. It doesn't feel like a thinly written characters feels like one that again. It feels a little too good to be true. It's one of those characters who's always kind of in the right place at the right time. Saying the right things you go. Well this doesn't. I don't know you see better cumberbatch. His character really feel like a person. Someone who's having to adapt in the moment and also the penkovsky character. He's far more practiced in this world than comeback but penkovsky feels like he's having to improvise and you know having to recover an awkward situations whereas You know the The rachel brosnahan character. You don't get that as much but that's it. It's something that kind of stuck out to me but it also really didn't impact my overall take on the movie. I think it was waiting for the next scene with the two leads. Yeah when she's on inches given east of sap for the next thing to happen in the okay. Can we see benedict Which i say often. But that's that's beside the point. I mean she also has the unfortunate role for any actor is your job is to move the plot along and that is largely what has to happen because benedict cumberbatch by virtue of being a spy. Who's not even on the bigger picture. He's not going to be the one pushing forward on his story. he needs someone to keep putting him back. You know in these dangerous situations i think. That was moses onto. I just wanna touch on a couple of the main characters Maybe we'll get wrapping everything up Benza cumberbatch as you mentioned earlier with by massive fans of his work but this is a total force him. I did not expect that. yeah Because you know you think You know i'm sure he just kinda shot this between Avengers endgame in the next doctor. Strange movie You know. I'm sure this was just kind of a quick job for him and you could easily think that through like three quarters of this movie and then you get to this prison sequence and benedict cumberbatch really goes through a physical transformation in this movie. That really knocked me over. I was genuinely shocked at how well i mean. He looks pretty emaciated by the time. This movie's over. Yeah that's what really jaw. Because it feels like. He's having a bit of fun with the character in the beginning. He's he's playing spy and then the reality starts to set in then he's arrested but then that whole thing where he's stripped naked and they've shaved his hash Mustache off on just remove his identity away. The whole thing just reminded me of strange segue but like the second episode of the chain of command to park Ration- you see patrick. Stewart's character of sean lee Stripped down naked removed identity and the the avalon in the episode. Just trying to break resolve and the the russians in trying to break wins resolve. Get him to admit he was a spy. And it's heart wrenching times. Will you see that. This is a guy who's vulnerable throughout this entire story from moment. One that when they recruit him he someone who's highly vulnerable because he's not trained in any way shape or form to be doing this job and you think ok. Well that's gonna be the tension of a guy who's vulnerable at any In any situation that he's going to be taking part in this mission in then you get here and you realize that whatever vulnerability was there before as far exceeded now because you are seeing him literally as you said stripped bare wasting away. We're seeing brutality heaped upon him and being tortured. I mean i really was quite blown away at how committed a cumberbatch was to this performance. I mean it really did blow me away. I mean he was actually the exact producer on this movie as well so he was obviously someone who had some sort of stake in getting this movie made and he must have viewed this as a real chance to deliver that sort of gopher broke performance yet. His i think production company would part of the creation. This film i think That company as well but Yeah that whole. I did a little research before. He actually did lose weight for this. This pot he lost a couple of starting in white. So it's not one of those. Like chris evans digitally made smaller performance. Do as a little bit of that digital effects later on probably but he did lose a little weight for and it's it's visually striking reminds me of christian bio in the machinist Yeah yeah and i mean it's very wrenching like didn't expect to be this wrenching. When i started the first hour or something would not have led me to expect that. And when you see you know Penkovsky meet up with him in that prison. It is a brutal sequence like that moment is both the emotional high point of the movie and also just the most like gut churning moment. Yeah because you see both of your hair is basically broken and the only little bit resolve. The benedict's character has left. Is he found out that the cuban missile crisis has been averted by s- basically thanks to their efforts and he gets the tail penkovsky. Who doesn't know this that his what was at least valid incite lives. He may have saved his own life which we find out he's soon executed afterwards but he has saved millions potentially potentially the site the world based on his will he did i not give him some solace. Which is it quite quite moving on. I did not expect that from this film. I thought was really fantastic in this movie. I never seen him. I don't think anything. And if i did it was nothing of you know where he leapt off the screen to me but he many ways drives this movie. It's his story that Benedict cumberbatch characters getting drawn into and i thought he was really effective and he is at final scene opposite cumberbatch and like your heart breaks for this guy and throughout the movie like movie does a really fantastic job taking a russian character and making him not just sympathetic but someone who really does break your heart over the course of the movie. Yeah i i know it's been locked onto about benedict's before most but you're right. His performances is justice to him because he's playing almost like a mentor in some ways. But also this guy knows he's bringing this newbie into harm's way and feeling it must be weighed Being a god sees through the nonsense of communism at the time and and the reality of the impending threat of nuclear fallout and being. At just thinking i need to defect from my own motherland to try. And stop this at. That's a lot of white to carry on your shoulders. And i think he's performance ready shows. He understands that. Yeah yeah. it's a really strong performance. And i look forward to seeing him in more films. I need to check out. Maybe some of his other notable roles. I was looking for a lot of tv. Walk including imbalance station which is a a spy tv. Show as well. So okay. I can extra for the performance i would highlight. Is jessie buckley. He mentioned the elliott plays benedict cumberbatch. His wife sheila in the film and she has another tool orders. Deal with which is being. That's wife home character. But you know she goes for her own journey throughout because she thinks that benedict's character is cheating on her with a with his travels to russia of the it turns out that he's actually trying to save the world silly him but and she actually rent realizes that has to go and see her husband being broken down in prison by the end and again that that scene maybe same as the scene comes immediately afterwards with the two main characters each other again. But that's a pretty heartbreaking scene to and we'll handled by a Jessie buckley it is an when i initially saw her in this movie. Pop up you of go like boy jesse buckley's like a really really talented actress. I i wonder why she has like why she took this role like it feels kind of small right considering some of the other amazing work. I've seen her do. And then you get to that point past that you know around the halfway point or so and you go. Oh that's why she signed on like the movie actually knows that she's a bit of their secret weapon. And i think uses her very well. Yeah absolutely so. We'll just sort of wrap up. Final thoughts in the film offers As i say going into i was a bit dubious. I don't tend to resonate very well with the stock gritty dramas about the real spies of the world. If he'd be bulk about harry palmer in the past. But this i think the performances really lifted it for me. I was engaged with the film and hopper by the end. I just think. I tip my hat to direction and to the performance of the actors. Yeah i think this is a really entertaining movie. I think people will enjoy of i would imagine a lot of people will not necessarily be drawn to it because it kind of wears kinda that look of the cold war spy film which could look a little slow to people but i think they will be sucked into it in engrossed by It is a really strong character. Piece and i think that people should check it out just for that alone and they may be surprised about some of the you know almost too strange for real life. Facts that actually were the case. Absolutely can if you're a fan of espionage. Australia's all tense dramas. I think this is once checkout. Yeah for sure. It says like two thumbs up from us. Now you may be wondering whether is as we said elliott declassified episodes will not feature the nucleus hopefully we'll be revisiting this film down the road and and really talking to small so i thank you for joining us on declassified episode one next week we have the mackintosh man in another spy movie featuring prison sinoe too so if he liked those stick around and don't forget to follow us discreetly on social media app spy hearts. That's sby h. a. r. d. s. on facebook twitter and instagram. I of course you wanna thank amazon prime for the absurdities checkout film today but until next week listeners. Good luck among the shadows.

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