VE 18: Ting: My Experience Is Where I am From
The funny because we china something i've been using on a fairly like regular basis no matter where both like the messaging and the moma's auction and i think the reason why more comfortable with making posts on we charge well. Let's now work people on there in general because we had for example if some unlike sir comments on your photo like no one else unless they're also that person's friend not out to me a layer of privacy those great welcome to the pets podcasts and audio experience to scratch your cultural curiosity itch with three different don't themed shows virtual ex-pats bookish experts and changing scripts. Today's episode is virtually ex-pats. One where we discuss how moving to different countries affects what we do online ex-pat sergio pats. I went to a third culture kid event in shanghai earlier. This year was blown away but one of the presenters ting. She shared her experiences living in china singapore the u._s. and hong kong all before she graduated from college. How's that for a geographic pick. Trajectory ting had as many gio pets do a complex mix of conflicting emotions and experiences connected to this multi-culture multi-country identify more on her story in just a moment. I have some things i need. Tell you first and foremost the music that you're hearing in the background here. That's from daming custodio. I normally give him credit at the end of the podcast but i wanted to move this forward and let you know that every time you hear that music in this podcast it's him his website is damon. Custodio dot com this particular. Taylor song is from his mess of me album. It's called. I got to be right. You can hear the full song with the lyrics at the very end of the episode. Also our geo pets podcast newsletter number number three is out now. This is a weekly newsletter that comes out on tuesdays and china which is generally mondays in north america in this newsletter. It's growing inch shaping but generally speaking. I'm giving some behind the scenes information on upcoming episodes podcast recommendations that fit into our themes of ex pat life language and technology analogy and so much more go to steph fujio dot com to check out the most recent newsletter and of course to sign up for future ones so you can get in your email inbox. If listening to podcast makes you think about making your own. I can help you. You can get a free month on pod being which is my podcast hosting site for jia your pets podcast by using promo code pod being dot com forward slash virtual ex-pats. Don't forget the rest and if you are an ex pat. I am doing a couple of beginning eating expect podcasters online workshops in september. They're more of a resource dump. Were i'm distilling lots of information that i've hunted down and used over the past two and a half years my podcasting casting life september twenty sixth and twenty seventh go over to steph g._o. Dot com and check out the exact time zones if you don't want to record your voice but need voice voice for either your your company's project actually selling mine you can go to voices dot com forward slash actors for its last steph fujio what i'm not charging for our promo spots and the announcements that are carefully placed in this episode. I offer these two content creators into people that have announcements announcements that are connected to the topics that were covering. You'll hear a few in this very episode. Let's get back to tang although being in her twenties her location trajectory is something like this china u._s. China u._s. singapore hong kong u._s. China as your head swirling it mine was but hers wasn't and that's the thing this kind of frequent geographic change change might unnerved some people and even disorient them but for taking it seems like only solidified who she was globally not just in relation to one nation one place place one culture ting studied economics and global studies at university and it was the connections between her and her fellow t._c. Case that attracted her attention the most which is why she's currently working on documenting the voices of those multi-player multicultural individuals. I'll keep you updated and when her projects come out. I'll let you know you can partake in them as well. Let's have a listen to thank you so much. Tinker joining us today on virtual expats here. Can you tell our listeners a little about your virtual missile sell of course about me. Since geographic self this little bit complicated. I was born in hainan china. Aw i grew up in san francisco and beijing and for university i went to university also the u._s. But it was the east coast of the post to girl what's because and after that so i spent about a year in beijing again and since the end of last year i've made shanghai so there's quite a lot of different geographical changes in terms of that in terms my branch of self. I guess it's typical of any any other person who has the social media presence on whether the u._s. facebook instagram and in china. It's suggests we chat other than that. I also have a passion project. I liked to present online once fully completed in which i interview a lot lot of individuals such as people who grew up in a variety of different backgrounds and cultures creating this unique new culture the culture that's not either one culture completely or the other and i would like to document their experiences their stories especially those experiences looking in china highland share it to a wider community of people online. That is so cool now. Is that going to be an audio project of video project or a combination of the two right now. It's going to be like basically the interview that i'm gonna transcribe so it's more of an award for yeah but eventually we would like to develop into an audio project as well because we find that you know it's a lot the movie was you can actually hear people tell their own stories definitely awesome well. We have a lot on packing. Let's go back in time. I win was the first time mm you remember being online and the things you were doing online being huge part of your daily life. Ooh six minutes thinking i think because i was born in the nineties found okay. I found myself online like religious ever since i was. Maybe like i want to say. Six or seven into happens is that you know you're connected to the online world what i was doing online. I'm not sure but whatever six or seven year old light surfing the web reshaping the live at six or seven. Do you remember any of the things that you were doing at six or seven actually no. I think it was mostly because there it was a lot of online games back in our okay so might often bat but unless map at geographically. Where were you at six or seven years old so i was in san francisco when i was six or seven k t nineties sorry. I'm like trying to think now now now. I was still in san westbound actually go up to san francisco to two thousand one so you beat me there. No no actually i king to after two thousand two okay yeah yeah two thousand one or two <hes> how we were. We were wow dont although i was shaking back and forth between san francisco and backpacking overseas will say for the first years anyway so wow and then after that what would you say is the the next. What was the first memory you have doing online first memory. I have do things online. It's maybe typing something. <hes> <hes> and i think back then at least i guess just with a computer might not have been online but i think in china where he was education was a big thing there there would be a lot of programs that help kids learn english on the computer. Oh okay is that like the tutors to tutors that are really popular now awesome way earlier. Wave news are just like programs that teach use the word. It's more of like a one sided thing whereas is now very very connected directly. Talk to your tutors online. It was nothing like that kinda checkout you was that after six or seven or that was before vows before because let's get those softwares you can also use without being completely like connected to the vet see this is trips me out about i like i went through so many different stages of technology technology that when i meet people that were like the internet's just part of their early early years like see you never consciously learned how to type you always knew kind of had swipe wipe and pinch and do all that stuff yes. That's why when you were asking me about my first memory of my presence. I am like i just came yeah. I was born. I was on social media kids right now the millennials right right right like wow okay. What was the first time you member like making stuff online. I would say sometime around middle school. Which is probably you you know eleven or twelve. It's when kids started to feel the need to have a online presence to kind of let people know who they were as a teenager the things that they wanted to express so i kind of just follow the ball with that trend gotcha and were you still in san francisco at that point were yes. I was but i think even from the beginning. I was a bit more conscious than others about no completely exposing my identity online's. I just didn't feel like it was very multi. Dimensional mechanism of expressing yourself yeah. What is you feel like was missing. I mean i think the young age back then i kind of innately realize that you know young kids the person that they present themselves online is. Maybe it'd be what you think. Is the cooler parts about yourself. It's not i wouldn't say one sided but it's definitely not your whole self and i kinda feel comfortable. Oh about which is why even back then i was more productive of my identity aligning in i would say i joined the social media ways although so quite early age tall still a bit later to the other kids. Oh wow they were on social media before eleven years yeah my blown does one have to say about life before eleven years old to be on social. I think it was just time like my space became happy. People still remember that oh they you do my space comes up. A lot is one of the first things that people were you following my space yoursel. Yeah i was on my size as well. Why <hes> do you remember any of the band's that you i mean it's mostly music great. Also just people posting you know. I think my space thing different. It is still remember nearly side from like facebook lozad it kind of made it more easy to express yourself on my space that i remember back then you can change your background different picture provo and also i remember there will be need this thing where my space they have. You know these top friends and in your bio you write something about yourself a lot of kids which is have you know three or four of their best friends right something about them and i was like the cool how okay this is a lot different than i remember it being so wild because i think i've in my twenties or something when my space became popular and i remember the music and that's all i remember. I know there was other stuff on there. It's just i wasn't quite online yet and i was using a dial up modem and a lot of free a._o._l. Dips 'cause i was like super broke college too and so i was just eating my online time with limited so let's go in and listen to music. Wow did you guys have a home computer at that point. Yes i think it became necessary to have a home abuser then well okay so between the learning and stuff at six or seven or before six or seven years old and the mice at eleven years old bliss or anything else. You are doing online between those two countries. I think a lot. I bet we also use. I simply entertainment misses. You read different blogs online. That's kind of like how you learn about the world outside outside of your time little friends other than that. Everything else was quite vega. Let's say you're journey level about all of this online. Presence is already ready blowing me over the fact that before eleven years old you're thinking about reading stuff. That's outside of your friend. Group like whoa. I was reading about politics. I was probably just following you know some girls fashion bloggers but it was still something other than what was immediately view and that can can happen for a lot of people until their late teens early twenties or some people never gonna make it really easy for people it does yeah and not to judge entertainments entertainment and sometimes you just need to unwind exactly. I'm never personally got into cat videos but there are a lot of silly things that i look at online that helps you distress after yeah or long weaker home it where i'm like. I can't think right now. I just wanna let oh gosh yeah. There's there's so much of that all right so do you remember any of the blocks that you were reading point. No i think it was way too early. Ah so after that what to remember doing online so you were in san francisco and then. When did you move to move to the east coast during college right yeah those it before. I was still in san francisco. I guess when this happened yeah now talk about. I think i remember another thing. Now is also quite big in terms of kids online online communicating with one another number this before i might say after or maybe at the simultaneously by the messaging being software like your future eight was like a really big thing young people would just go home and be on it constantly and and it was right now so many busy things going on in my life i can't imagine just sitting in front of my computer and having you know constantly messages popov responding like every time they pop up nearly in scored on for like hours until you have to sleep but that was basically what a lot of kids did happen too because it was a way to stay connected with your friends after school as well as it was a great way to just get to know someone a lot better because you had all this highway. You can just talk to one another name yeah now in the chat rooms. Were you in ones that were like small group serves. It usually more of a one online communication angles usually awhile month communication as you're still on computer me think we're still still in the beginning of the toots early odds right <hes> trying to think of wind mobile phones became bic witness cheese while they were always there but i think back then texting was still like people do. I love tiny europeans in in asia about texting all my gosh because there's such a different flavors in it. I mean even just the terminology at all like what chris reason and i had this time period where i like dating british guys i love the fact that they were just the terminology often like ticked text message versus semes- for some reason made a big difference and instead of flirting with him in person a lot of times not always they would flirt after they met you via text message read so there's the there is these little differences that were like okay that's but that's still flirting okay yeah and then ceiling doing because when i moved to vietnam such crappy phone not because of vietnam because there was a broken english student in the water and it was text message it was pre mobile pre smartphone but i don't know i am everything big differences there but i feel like developments with technology. It happened really really fast in asia. I think why wasn't i wasn't in asia at the time as with anywhere like cut us never number flip phones like a big deal and all of a sudden there. What was your first phone my. I i think it was probably one of those really simple nokia's and then i kind of upgraded to those flip phone than it was like they'll slider slider phones that were really popular. I never had a spider with with the sliders blackberries now. There were many pallets that sliders like where a your keyboard is like hidden under your phone if you slide it back oh those were especially made for texting because it's kind of feels like many little keyboard. Oh i would have loved that. I think i think overseas with the nokia brick the one that you could throw against everything. They supposedly brought them back last steer but i haven't sake yeah but now smartphones are su- popular here that i haven't even looked because i'm just like it's almost like the. I don't even know what to call it. If you flip open like this and then it looks like a tablet but it's a little smaller forget. The terminology of it looks pretty cool though it is not as clergy italian one. It's very very new but i want to say walkway has went out right now but i cannot remember what they're calling that kind of phone <hes> because it's just it's like screen and screen and you just flip it up and down or you can just use it when it's closed just the top. It's really cool. I guarantee you. I will not get. I five versions of it just because it'll be expensive but really cool bebe seriously okay. Oh sorry so we're in the chat rooms and then really get a scratch your brain all the stuff up in china chow more a mechanism to kind of engage your friends and see what they're up to. Although i do in a really popular website back then is kind of like especially especially like at my life and on the little blurbs of people talking about things like a really funny that went on and and we'll always be like you know my life because this thing happened and i don't know why was so popular then but it was like a big thing among teenagers because i guess when you get home and you just read about the different things that went wrong with other people's lives. You somehow feel better better about yours policy behind it. I i would have read that. I probably would have bret that early. Twenty s to yeah like you know it'd be like the found things happened but then it would also be like really funny and they would be really sure like one blurb would only be three or four seasons. Oh aw i saw me too but yeah. It was just those things that you can kind of loose chocolates. Hi you're flipping thorough <hes> yeah question. The reason i'm thinking of my pres- hilton moment is his blog for a while and i'm like why am i doing this. Why am i doing this something an hour later. I'm like all cut up. And why do i need to know this. Oh my gosh okay so to move to east. Coast was says for college yeah so before that i was in beijing but college was in north carolina. Okay wait to san francisco beijing aging in san francisco until what age i was around for him fourteen <unk> beijing until at age tell i was eighteen. Wow okay so when you made the shift who so you went from china to the u._s. China into the u._s. to china while yannick we're getting really specific in college. I also spent what about one year of insignia for half a year in hogue hall okay so you've got a lot to china. I know oh but i'm like. I don't want to miss that. They'll be so china u._s. China singapore singapore hong kong. I'm laughing because i really like it when people have more complicated geography than me feel a little bit more normal. Oh no no no. It doesn't make me feel more normal. It makes me feel less abnormal yeah because i do not that kind of thing but just like if you said where are you from. I'm an giggle. You know why that's a really hard question yeah and that's a relief to me. Okay so china u._s. China you a singapore in hong kong china and you're not old enough to have all of this already okay now. You are no kidding okay so so far. We've got china u._s. So then when you came back to beijing was there any big shift in what you're doing online and that was fourteen years hotel. Yeah i would say i use was online more but i was doing them anything anymore. Basically basically as a kid you know like and this goes into like other issues to like you know how do you deal with the new environment and just into the new school system and so i think i was using a lot of time to adjust to the new environment and there was a lot more different things from your pick up in school. So that was is where i had to like really pull of my focus so i didn't find myself online that much anymore but when i was online i think i was still just using a a lot to talk with my friends. Does they connected with these childhood friends that you know we're still in back in the u._s. And that was really just became a mechanism. I'm from remain connected and not feel so alone. Wow okay so you came back to china at the beginning of high school. It was around the end the middle school in the mouse when china's a bit different it goes on all the way till the ninth grade whereas in the u._s. high school begins okay okay okay for the listeners stairs. That's the chinese college entrance exam and then go to university here well actually when i came back. There was the problem of my chinese not not being very good anymore and i think my parents really wanted to be to be able to pick up again and so when i did come back instead of maybe going to an international school. They put me in a local school which is a very hard transition. Yes immediately the whole academic culture. Everything was just completely indifferent because my chinese without depar- i kind of have to drop down by great so in the u._s. I was already now halfway down nice green but <hes> have come back here. I kind of have to like pick it up at like eighth grade. Yeah sauce back in middle school and that was where i had to really adjust to of being back in this environment. It was a lot of verse culture shock and you know all is like very stressful even middle oh school you have what you have called the joke hot which is also very stressful then that you take to get placed into pop notch high school. Oh okay so i would say although probably not as stressful you still stand. Maybe like a semester doing nothing but practicing exams uh-huh which was i was not a ban while i don't know about you but the first time i was exposed to the term and the population more importantly of t._k.'s t._k.'s third culture kids was about two years ago. It's when i was exploring a lot of cultural channels on youtube and following a lot of folks who spoke spoke multiple languages on social media soon after this i met tanya crossman who has so many different hats that i'm going to let her explain. What who she is what she does hi. I'm tanya crossman. I'm across cultural consultant working with international schools and other international organizations but i most well known as the author of misunderstood and the impact of growing up overseas in the twenty first century in misunderstood. I explore how growing up between countries and cultures languages impacts the way a young person sees as an understand and experience the world around them and how this different experience can create tension or misunderstandings between them friends and family. He didn't share that same cross cultural childhood told experience. I wrote it partly young people who grew up this way to say that it's not just me i'm not the only one other people feel the same way i do and i make sense in this context but i also read it for parents who felt anxious and stressing even guilty for bringing their kids overseas and worrying what this was going to do to their kids long term so i i interviewed and surveyed hundreds and hundreds of tasic as about their experiences so i can say the parents look. I don't know what your specific kids going through but he's what hundreds of other other kids in similar situations have said about their experiences. The book is full of this stories. What's helped them and what hasn't what support they need from the adults in their lives. I love talking about this stuff. I love talking to parents to tasty case to anyone that is cross cultural world so you'll find you'll ever sexual media. I'm on twitter as tennessee kay. I'm on facebook and instagram as misunderstood t._c. K. and my website is misunderstood. Book dotcom misunderstood is available as a paperback book pretty much everywhere online since it's reading this book i have recommended it at least once every few weeks and i have actually sent the book to two or three different people people who are parents t._c. Ks and i do believe that actually tanya and ting are now connected as well so yeah if you or someone you know is interested interested in the t._c. Experience or just wants to know more about interesting life that people like ting lead and the advantages and disadvantages of that and the emotional side of it then i highly highly highly recommend tania's book. Did you get that impression yet her collecting and projecting the voice of that population which she is actually a part of t._c._i. Third culture adult is a beautiful beautiful thing speaking of t._c. Ks and t._c._i.'s. Let's get back to ting. It sounds like you didn't have time for a lot of online stuff except for keeping in contact with your friends backgammon us yeah all right. So when did you decide to go back to the u._s. For pets yes in completed mills going went there with joel. Oh how my parents decided to semi tunisia show school again could kind of see that although i was getting more used to my new surroundings i it wasn't completely very happy so they thought that it might be better. If i were to national school and then went to university. We're seeing the u._s. For my education because they thought it was just more environment that was worth it for me so yeah after going to school i went to the u._s. North carolina okay well. Let's stay with the international school for a minute yeah. So did you have more free time when anew switched from the local school to the international school well yeah. I had more free time but an international blow. It was a boring school so basically lights went out certain time every night. Yeah it was a bit like strictness around. You know what you could do. Not since it's a boarding school are scheduled us also jam packed in that did have breaks in between classes or self study sessions. They can go to like eight or nine. How did you have a mobile phone at this point. Yes i did. I i remember this transition quite clearly. Actually even the middle school like i could see a lot of my friends. Were getting smartphone. I think at that time i couldn't in completely really grasped what smartphone was the difference what so never like really bothered me but i would say that the one the thing that really you know traffic to like feel like this is an assessing together smartphone was when we became really popular and everyone was using in return to communicate with other and if you have a smartphone you didn't hook shot and i was just like wow when everyone in your class had these he's like groups on their house you include. I hadn't thought about that because first time in china was in nanjing it was about probably nine years ago at this point and and we did have a which is now called a dumb phone which is so rude because it was functional but yeah i'd the basic phone but yeah when we checked came up. You had to have a smartphone. Wow what are we to get the market going to. We even thought about that. Wow okay so at that point. You wanted smartphone exactly and try to talk on this obviously especially in china. Even if you're you know at the age where most u._s. students they they kind of like work for their allowances in china's quite different so i still had some kind of vast my parents for permission to buy a lot of things and they were big fan of me getting smartphone. They thought it was just like this shopping wii so caught up in this focus on school that kind of thing i just in dave realize it because the witch craze i think caught up later for <hes> <hes> so they didn't understand importance of it but eventually ended up scraping serving enough money to get like a smartphone yeah to break the timeline for a second when you travel and meet people that have not been exposed to be chat. How do you describe it to them because i was getting a little flustered because it's so many thing yeah it is right now. Honestly it's become so big that like it's hard to meet people. It don't quite grasp what we is anywhere. I have f- i did. I would just say that you know it's messaging social media platform orm but like there's also a lot of other functions and you can do on china you know and it's also a huge mobile payments them and that makes life a lot lot user for many people so it's just a super all in one oh he's in san francisco okay with craigslist. I used a lot when you were there the website craigslist. I heard about it a lot. I think at that age i didn't really need to like sally. It's incredibly true. You wouldn't have needed department to look for apartments when you're wouldn't have needed to look for yeah yeah. I know i moved there after university so for me. It was like every question i had people said oh. You should check on craigslist. I feel like we chat is that ants on only wouldn't actually ever answer the first time you get it on there. Then you just know exactly yeah too funny too funny okay so you left trying to them and you went to the east coast which the huge cultural shift is yeah big. I wanted that because i do realize you know west coast completely different culture culture and i just i was ready to experience something new now. Did you see if people were using online stuff differently there. You're from the west coast also or is it just real life stuff that was different too much time has passed between what else in the west coast that comparison thoroughness so. I wasn't sure but for me personally coming back to the u._s. I remember this first month of college. This is made a facebook and apparently that was also way later than everyone else even the timing when i love san francisco because i was when the shift from face to face them starting to happen very giulino people were so this very new thing like oh yeah i found this you know other social media cl- among on it like you should ask me but i think i'm just slow at these kind of things i heard about is really hit me up like a thing that would become as big nowadays yeah oh. I didn't expect and you had to have like a university dot e._d._u. Address or something. I just got rid of that had to be invited in elliott sunday. I went through. It was like watching watching watching like i haven't ecology legit dress note that college wait wait and then finally yeah yeah so it was like a slow where it was really clever on their part. I don't know if that was intentional that anticipation asian definitely. I think make people want to be on it exactly yeah i yeah so. What are we talking when you move back to to the u._s. It it was two thousand and thirteen very recently. Yeah wow okay so what did you find yourself doing online then facebook and and oh well the freshman in college what you on the line is a lot it sits from you know procrastinating wash youtube videos. Does your choice words. Being of the university courses website just trying to get all of your studies together together. China rebel about the amount of work is just like powder on top of you than the amount of courses. You're supposed to take everything that emulates nuts yeah. You look at it and you're like oh. It's not a lot it's five fun but then you realize wife follow piss and midterms and finals happening about the same time for all five glasses. It's like yes may to be stressful. It truly truly is and it's yeah. There's no other experience quite like like it after university now that page you know it's yeah it definitely makes you tougher person okay so after your freshman year like any time during your university experience. Do you remember any of your favorites. My favorite wall whole you know like we discussed the barrier a lot of times. It's like you need to find videos that kind of allowed you to just really aetna think about anything that they can stupid but they can be like really yeah yeah so i think a lot of it was comedy channels. Watch you know some of the big youtubers nghien also. I think it was thursday night live. Those are just like the skits. I really enjoy washing as well as like different parodies. They did nothing for my brain cells but you know they were critical absolutely absolutely okay so after store at the same time as facebook. What other social media did you start taking. Pardon i think while i don't consider myself a super big social. I think facebook was enough to get me to be functional and be like hey man facebook <music>. I'm and i as i mentioned i'm slow at these things. Even though instagram was already a bit popular then kind of resisted getting instagram until a lot waiting last year for me. I tried it early on i was like because i had to arvy massive twitter person <hes> and i had gone on on and off facebook facebook for ten years until like last month so i had my main source and i was like i'm good. I don't want another one. I don't want to exactly exactly you wanna just have a main source of waste all your time which is so easy to do. It's easy to do yes. I wanted to just streamline it and just have one one but twitter kept getting clock for last year so i started going over to instagram because you can post to twitter the instagram so i'm like okay fine. While you guys are sorting out why you you think i should be kicked off for a while. Oh go do this and i got addicted to the videos and the pictures i really found that a lot easier than just constantly clicking and reading articles like oh no happening to my brave addition so yeah so streamlining on facebook sounds like a really smart choice to it so since two thousand thirteen so when did you leave college well for years later the two thousand seventeen you did it in four years. I think that's expected because i have some people that i knew that they were ready to work. Did it in three. What yeah what majors did these. What oleg not really hard messages but i think they were just like you know. We're ready to need then. Those are the high achievers that took like a classes. Oh mike eight. Oh my god i went to polytechnic school school in is around a whole bunch of engineering students who took like three or four. I'd still like semester because the courses the labs were so so intense that it took there are a lot of people it's just a who beyond four and five years for sanity sake of being able to do do some of the information or their yeah yeah. <hes> everyone is different. Wow yeah i so not that high achiever and high school or even in college i always wanted to just explore and share and learn about other cultures. Yes and other people and other things and one of the things that i've been learning about for the past couple of years has been podcasting. She podcast have to facebook groups because one's is not enough so i suppose that's high achieving. One is the general group that anybody can join in another. One is a five dollar fee. It's called. They're super squad group and i'm in that group. I i love that group. The attention that they give us is just insane. It is a life line to have that smaller community of women podcasters that understand and the trials and tribulations of trying to have a female voice be heard hi. This is jess and l. c. We wanted to quit moment to tell you all about the upcoming podcasting tobacco. We created just for women called. She podcasts live. She podcast live is being held. This october tenth thirteenth in atlanta georgia at the world world famous atlanta marriott marquis and it's going to be an absolute one of a kind experience that caters to women podcasters and those who are thinking about podcasting fasting. We started with choosing a hotel that not only has amazing ambiance and a four star spa but hotel rooms with optional therapies arcadian lighting air purifiers. There's an alarm clock that simulates the dawn we then created the content to be chock full of sessions that are specific to women's needs confidence beer supporting forty women through podcasting the power of being unique work life balance and optional morning yoga session of course we'll have sessions about editing social media monetization in and growth and every session is being taught by successful woman podcast her who has immense experience and knowledge and their topic of expertise some examples women firm edison research research simple cap pod fun who will small business the mock blueberry himalayas he rx. We've loosened the scheduled for more social and sleeping time <music>. I'm and plans to get your phone type podcast her two six six eight six six to learn more about she podcast live or does she podcasts podcasts live dot com. We'll see you there in atlanta. Hurry up and do it but with a wreck all right all right all right. Let's get back to tang and her story and her documenting t._c. K. voices in her own project okay so after two thousand seventeen singapore oh was in college it was for shane was actually so two thousand fifteen sixteen yeah and that was like a school exchange or just who exchange okay what we checking wall. I've changed my major like really the college club uh-huh econ major about four or five switches. I decide to study a global societies which is like international relations. Yeah that's the topic that just really germany and i felt like would be fit for my experience <hes> so it was after that i kind of decided that you know it's great but probably not the best place six of myself to international national themselves like i think i wanted to study abroad and since my area focused title is asia. I should singapore singapore. Just sit is it out to me because i visited once prior and you know it was just really known as the cultural bumpy politician. Nobody different people living peacefully side by side. I just a harmony of different cultural just living with each other so it just it was a huge appeal to me yet time yeah so what was it like going from north carolina to which is not terribly multicultural to to singapore that is pretty international very maryville. So i saw like i was liberated. I think it has to the fact that i'm still like a city person so just being back in the city again was a huge relief to me being able to you know be exposed to all all these different types of people especially on an exchange program because as you have this community where you have people from all around the world and i think that really opened up a lot of my few because back back then whether it be china or do you us all my friends who's use the chinese are american. I wasn't exposed has many other cultures on that okay and that kind of blew that exactly i wanna geek out about about two things one is when you from beijing back to the u._s. Did you continue to use. We chat evaluation the u._s. Okay yet and then and when you move to singapore in two thousand fifteen an ex teacher i really wanna ask you to compare the use of technology and the internet and both the u._s. Versus singapore. I would say there wasn't like a huge difference but one thing that was different singapore reverses against the u._s. Or china is what's very houston. Anyone you need you just ask for that wants out and and that was just also had like the first time i had to get what can figure out how to use it but what struck me as more private bit of communication mechanism as opposed to like you know maybe facebook we chat because all these are connected to the different photos shared in your online presence present. What's that was it was simply. A waste replaced techs nothing much more. That's that's a really really good point. I just got on what's up recently. I have some really really good point because it's just between the person to person with a person to grew yeah and it's is not exposed to the world. Why facebook exposed to the world. Okay now that you bring that up. I'm very curious why we want that because like facebook back look people you would like me once you would exchange facebook and you know all this information on this is exactly why off it for a decade because that got really awkward yeah yeah i'd meet someone and suddenly i had access to everything on their couch and access to everything democracy in the beginning. There weren't a lot of layers to facebook gear either their friend or you weren't exactly and i didn't see them again. I'd be like all awkward because i knew they had for lunch for the past week. Super dramatic emotional moment that they you okay post after post about and i'm like i think this is too much was just very strange. Exactly what census got rid of all of them. What's what what lights. Why do we want. That stuff online really got me thinking because it because facebook twitter instagram. They're all you can have private get messages but the vast majority of it is for the public consumption yeah people i guess just need an outlet to express themselves delve publicly in these social media kind of just like jump on that we chat you do have moments xactly but moments. I think we child is this funny because we chatted something. I've been using on a fairly like regular basis no matter where we both like the messaging and the option and i think the reason why feel more comfortable with making posts on we charge less so <music> now because i had like white people on their face because and we had for example some unlike comments on your photo like nelson helsinki that unless they're also that person's friend i've wondered about that but you're actually asked that question okay yeah and not just not to me with like a layer of privacy those grades and also you know they've also wrote out this new system where basically you can also just not show. Oh you're completely post the spirit days six months or you can hide honestly yeah so like also like privacy improvement so yeah. We'll feel a lot more comfortable because so many times the news about chinese and chinese media gets really distorted in the u._s. So i think it's funny. They you an awesome moment. I'm i think it's funny that we chat has more privacy option than the facebooks in twitter especially especially facebook yeah funny anyway sorry. I'm sure you get a lot of questions by people when you when you leave china about wjr china job in it's always like all you explain to them how this works that they never been and it's always like really you too often. It's a little to fear baseman. They want to hear the negative exactly and it's like why don't even want to answer that because one. I'm not thankfully from from there. The only been there for years maybe three if you really want to clump together but more importantly they're already they have an idea of what they wanna hear and they're not gonna hear anything but what confirms that and that's an awkward conversation to have yeah it helps for the person asking does have an open line for whatever you're gonna save okay but it just it depends totally totally does all right. It's a singaporean whatsapp and school wise tarbey really the to do with it much comparison wise in coursework that you were supposed to do. Research and things like everything was still pretty similar. You know like even most of the teacher feature you have. They were from you know the western countries like if felt really familiar but <hes> the only thing that was different was just like in terms of the students in class class participation how they were they friendly classroom discussions on a general basis at least the didn't feel us active tiv- as those in the u._s. nash just like more of a culture thing sure sure okay. Are you still in what's up now. Have you kept using yeah. I am john was up and i think the only reason that my best friend i met on exchange in singapore grew closer. Is there in hong kong because she's basing home. She's super private like she doesn't have facebook instagram anything that exposes her. I did head of the line except for you know communication tools like what's happ so it's something that i would just use the touch of her because otherwise we'll probably probably have to resort to email or something or calling with a phone. I'll blasphemy yeah. Well the good thing about what's happening to so. We also just call. Let's have become a thing that you would use cop two one person own equate pretty new to what probably a few months in can you actually make calls leaving voice messages. You actually call someone without too now. Oh sweet so much from this podcast is ridiculous. The reason i went back on facebook actually was because one of my guest mentioned that you could be in the groups and basically turn your time line off on the timeline part that was that really creeped me out the first time it was on so yeah ooh so now i'm back in all these groups for podcasting and different things but i don't have to deal with the lunches to intimate conversations nations but i don't yeah separating yeah yeah yeah yeah like a connections but i don't have to see everything okay so singapore and then hong kong would that weight is hong kong actor the u._s. on the author singapore. That was after singapore while you're still at university yeah thousand other things i did. Oh whoa okay were these exchanges three hundred universality. They're very open about about students being so with singapore year yes okay it was hong kong year where <hes> it was half a year after okay and kind of same questions. Why would the differences when you shifted from singapore hong kong online time wise. I think it's actually pretty similar like you know. People sell mostly like used what type in hong kong well. Oh yeah i would say school. Wise was also pretty similar. It wasn't like huge difference in terms of how people use their online presence but and let's say this more like politically heated discussions online at least because just because you know they're in a more politically heated an environment yeah so online political activism was really being a hong kong especially when i was there exciting during the time and with the new elections. Did you get involved in any of the he political stuff now i didn't i law number one. It was not suggested buyers that abroad get involved and to just because i felt like i didn't know enough about the situation to you. Jump into the commerce short that make sense or after year and a half abroad then you went back to the us at yes. I had to finish basically my last semester of university. Well how casey return to the u._s. For one semester and then you went to the these coast of the u._s. us for university but were half of that was overseas. Yes that sounds like the perfect experience but but like having it be in different for countries if that sounds like a really really cool exterior yeah. Did you have the intention to do that. When you first started university no i just. I don't know why i back then. I didn't think too much about why wanted even to go to university in the first place. It was one of those things i was like. Oh everyone is going. I will go but obviously in university. You really push to make more conscious decisions about what you want to study what you want to do if you live. That's what i decided that you know. I feel like it would be helpful. If i got more of an international exposure yeah that's just staying here for awful years. Gotcha now global studies as is that politics political science or yes so people always joke in my university that it's like the closest houses major to a non major me. I didn't mind that because you know i had a broad variety of interest and i like pow this meja kind of gives you the opportunity to mix and match those inches within global studies there will be different concentration or themes so for example politics global help and they'll be different area concentrations for other areas in the world for me. I chose one mets do politics and for region as i mentioned previously news. That's really cool us really growing. They went to a polytechnic and i didn't pick one engineering. Nearing course i ended up picking one that included many i did a course in mechanical engineering course in chemical engineering course it like it included waited all of them. We were supposed to be kind of middle managers that could talk to the business people and the engineers and kind of be yeah so it was actually really fun for me. I didn't end end up using it now. <noise> formerly yes yes skills could be applied though if massively applied to many different situation but not formally but it was really fun to be able the dip into all of those yeah. Everybody kept saying the happiest engineers on campus. We're the people in my group didn't have to go so far in to one. It's houston kind of engineering exactly. I was like yep. I'll be happy one. Thank you so global said. He sounds kind of similar. You had more variety than just just some more exposed to more disciplined basically yeah. That's really really cool all right. Where are we geographically you. You came back to the u._s. You graduated in four years and then you came back to china. Did you go back up to beijing or did you come to shanghai. Ah i was in beijing for about a year yes although i did chappelle year in beijing for your and then you moved to yes you visited or lived in shanghai before that point so before i went off to college briefly visited shanghai but that was very brief and i didn't do anything in shanghai except the touristy areas bud so. I don't think that was like before shanghai experience but i didn't like the other side of shanghai moved here all the different alleyways laying houses but i think for me why chose moved to shanghai schist because i just having moved to rally so much just get really itchy feeds mainly in one place and at that point in my life. I was gonna do a new job now. She's like you know what i'm gonna. Take this opportunity to get commission had enough fair enough and they're really different places yeah yeah. Let's stay online online. Did you notice any difference in what people were doing with their phones in beijing versus shanghai when he made this shift on their phones. Ooh i would say at least for me. I can't say for like everyone. I think this also depends on the type of people i'm i'm surrounded with but i think in shanghai like why my delivery more by the us really really yeah. Oh what i i don't know it's like accurate rallies people only because i feel like a lot of times whether it's because the busy or lazy walking eat food for traffic yeah but beijing is actually worse. That's true and beijing is also huge yeah geographic and it's very spread out yeah but it wasn't like i guess shanghai as well that like i the delivery not just but also for like groceries and everyday idols because like so convenient oh yeah i switched from trying to find stuff in stores to now if i can't find it in places. I'm walking by that day. I will just come home in order to go. I can't know where which store door this is even in looking at this and that one i'll message a few people and go. Where would you find this and finally i was like what am i doing. Everything's delivered. It kind of makes the process. A lot of fun is less of a scavenger. I know but there's so many things when i move to a place you know. There's so many things that you need that. I was just like that's it. I just need to get everybody keeps saying let's go ahead and the number of things you can get delivered if you can't get it delivered. It probably isn't the thing yeah everything is on top of but like here. There's also other apps for just fresh bursaries and it just makes life a lot easier especially. They're really heavy items. Oh my gosh yes. Yes yes and yes yet. This is the desk was delivered. All of these mic stands were delivered to be fair. That share is delivered a few weeks ago. That was delivered. Most of the other furniture is actually came at the apartment so it was probably delivered by someone else truly everything so crazy. That's interesting that it's not as popular up there. I didn't even realize as an ex pat. I needed a little more attention from my passport country until very recently. So why did i start to think about this is because has of the impending elections twenty twenty in the u._s. Now not really it's so simple tweet. I got from a michael rama's and he said hey stephanie vinnie. Could i trouble you to please reach. We might call out for survey participants for u._s. Ex-pat no not at all. I found it very interesting and i'll tell you why in a minute but right now. I want to have michael his own voice. Tell you what the research he's working on is for guys. Thanks for your attention. My name is michael ramos and i'm an american kim currently living in melbourne australia. I've been enjoying the gio pats podcast and i hope you've been enjoying it too so i wanted to let everyone know that i'm actually in the middle of conducting a study he could sure use your guys help. So in short i've started an online survey open to all americans living abroad who are at least eighteen years old the overall goal of my study. It's better understand that unique relationship between american expats and the united states congress and so if there are any listeners he's here who are in fact voting aged americans living abroad and wouldn't mind taking a few minutes of their time to participate in my study. Please consider clicking on the link provided to access access the survey. I really really appreciate it. Thanks for your time. I took michael surveyed. What did i think i thought it was super interesting. This survey questions were clearly trying to tease out out american ex pats expectations of our local and our national government. The questions did get me thinking of my own tenuous relationship with the u._s. and with the government especially right now and other than reporting my income taxes which some experts from other countries don't have to do other than that. I don't really hear from the u._s. Government. I have a mailing address in the u._s. And i have an email address and i have a passport but i generally don't hear from anybody unless something's going wrong with my income income taxes. Do i want more than that and i never really considered that question because i like the hands off approach. I wish it was more hands off. Honestly i don't have any conclusions by. I just have questions so i'm kind of curious what michael is going to collect with his research and if we're able to i will share this information as ask michael three search continues. I'd love to have him on virtual experts at guest in twenty twenty. I'd love to have him talk about the results of this research as well. Would you like that if you'd like to hear about that do let me know and i'll extend the invite to michael. If he is interested i am excited. That michael reached out to us and i'm excited to hear more more about what he's going to do with it in the future. Let's get back to tang so you've got the chronology down now. We have some questions from previous guests on your online experience. I can't so are you still just on okay. You said facebook whatsapp or those two places in social media that you're still every check and we chat and now you know it's funny that it was after we'll be back to decide. It happens okay. I think it's just because you know i was travelling. Somebody else put my travel somewhere. Oh yeah so i i think that was a pupil basically yeah now what they've done with pictures and videos pretty awesome yeah yeah. A series of them linked in for some reason linked in is getting really popular. Yeah i'm also late in thousands of middle of college but just to prepare for the future which had to have this profile in lake appear professionals as we want it was yeah but for almost a decade lincoln was just the sleeping sleeping sleeping thing and nobody was doing anything <unk> except uploading their stuff giving that linked to be and then all of a sudden about a year or so ago people started posting articles and pictures and different professional national things and talking about their their work day mike what just happened. I noticed that too like before. I would never be like lengthen looking through other people's love bali. Now i find it more engaging to lengthen looking at the feet. Yeah probably say one of the few things that microsoft stop test taken on and made better because i think that's probably about the time that it started to touche. Thank you uh-huh so let's see what are some of the questions of previous gas <hes> stevie who is a life coach in hong kong friday enough says. Are you happy when you use. I use social media wanted say happy just when you're on social media obviously just looking for something to entertain entertain us deathly very entertaining ills. That sounds borderline happening. We've talked a little a bit about it being easy to get caught up in what you're doing online. Do you feel like you're we play with terminology on this podcast to we've got ira whichever it uses and we wanted to counter acronym for that so we made up one v._r. Virtual reality life in real life so do you feel like you're iro vero life is balanced announced. What you do online doesn't interrupt what you want to do offline in real life space yeah. I feel like obviously sometimes. Do you have your bath as we just want to lay in bed. I should be fine but i think over all it is balanced but right. Now i think a big thing that has occurred and which also relates to a lot of people might be increasing posing as something of like online branding branding personal branding like who do you how you wanna present yourself and how for example how do you want to share like the different accomplishments or opinion that opinions you have a live with a wider audience which leads more people you know utilizing in social media in their favor and searches getting tangled up in social media <hes> being <hes> conflict consumer. They're producing more content dot caboose their self image so it sounds like you from an early age. Were very conscious of what you're doing online at any point in your life teenagehood or young adulthood adulthood did you find yourself pulling any of your friends aside and saying hey do really wanna put that online and giving them some advice about their online presence aw aw and you don't have to use names or anything yeah. I'm trying to get actually not quiet because happily pretty much. Most of my friends are pretty responsible that yeah they wouldn't coast a lot of inappropriate things online especially since nowadays. There's a lot of articles on on how employers could have so. I think people are more aware of that but that's probably for for the more public social media valley facebook twitter and we child is not so because it's more private like your employer can't just search you up. <hes> we even have your friends. You know you have the option to just block them. So we chat. I definitely like sees more content that reflects. I guess human nature by people would be more comfortable with hosting scene. Maybe like a screen shot of conversation. They had with friends on recheck okay. I've mentioned that that perplexes me a little bit yeah when people do that people start doing that. 'cause <unk> apparently recently well. The funny thing is when we went back sure graphically to what else in san francisco and talked about using aim as like an almond stor yeah so i back then that would be a thing goes well. If your friends set something like really funny you kind of like you have this little bio where you can post it and it will be something you can use the update not for long and that was like copy and paste not screen shot but we reach out. I think there's just always been there in and not when people post screen shots not just we check homers asian yeah any any message out yeah. They will have the comfort of knowing that their friends one of the other message is probably what anyone these messages right and then your friends on we chat you know if you posted mostly will help like the courtesy the of maybe using some absolutes much the icon photo sure sure of lake wherever they were talking to the just the content or sometimes kaiser just be like out there but that's probably like agreed upon but it'll be all kinds of things most of the time of you. I really like fun jokes between the two that just wants to share this is really funny but then other times it could just be like a huge disagreements. Johnson group chats thing that kinda just gets used to publishing people yeah. That's the version i've seen the armone ex-pat legal board and i'll see we sometimes arguments between employers and the employees always pissed thirty screen shot and put it over in. There and i'm like this is not going to help you. What are you doing if they find out you've done this. That sounds like it's just gonna snowball situation and i just yeah shock me the first few times i saw it. I was like you do realize that person's name as they are yeah every part of that conversation yeah definitely maybe like a bit less social media where unheard of this kind of thing and when people do that kind of screen up to the usually do it like send it to one person or like my example i just had was into a group the you usually see it. They're sending it to one person to say. Can you believe this happened or how funny is this. Oh yeah everything you know. You said i get screen shots of stuff stuff sent to me by friends i will send them to friends and then you would have people just we were posted to the public the and yeah it would be all type of things but most people i would say what had posted to a large group chop although oh i don't really see the difference became during that posting on your moment is maybe there'd be more people that you wouldn't necessarily want the in regular contact contact within the versus your moments you can really really control who sees yours and muzak ayers yeah still it's still shocked me to these take over sharer no social media so i don't know why because it because it's me sharing that information not somebody taking mine and that was private and putting. I think that maybe that's it exactly no or maybe just a pre internet chick. No one can be printed oy. I remember dialup okay. We're all my gosh. I didn't ask you this yet because you've country country helped so the wrong word. You've changed countries a few times. What languages have you used online language so of course on facebook and instagram again just like english. I feel like most it depends on like who my friends are on their mostly english-speaking and the way ago i would cut a ten to juggle around between english and chinese and many on what's the best way i can express that and i don't think it's a big deal because we had it's like obviously most of my friends is still a chinese but then you also have a lot of foreign sir using chat so it's become this whole mesh part of everything yeah family your colleague <hes> uh-huh. Will you be everything yeah. Do you ever switch. If you're talking to someone who knows english. I'm chinese. Do you do tend to code switch within the the message's. Oh yeah definitely happens. It only happens with other third culture kids because they have that you cook grass of those languages. It makes sense but usually i just stick to whatever language i i met the person in london. We met some populace when you are this language yeah. They got that gosh. Have you ever every deleted a social media post after you put it out into the world yes i have. I think most people must have because you post day. You realize this is not something. I actually want have out there so let me just leave that really quick hope bill. Ah i everybody has a job who was the first person i interviewed for this podcast hijo she she wanted to know. Do you share more stuff in real time or do you share it after the fact like a day or two later or something that's actually really pushing. They don't get a lot of people share in real time for me. I guess i used to share <music>. Time also depends because a lot of functions are may fishing around time. I remember back when oh yeah this survey. Okay i forgot to mention because my issue. It was over snapchat. Oh you're the first person to talk about. Snapchat is still around. I think so i just it's just gotten replaced by instagram's stories horse and now augie stories everyone is doing these stories can't put his what is this just popped up like two weeks ago yeah. Were you only on there for a little while. I think it was also one of those. Fads just became so huge. You can not anymore so i was on it. I guess i kind of like seeing suzy the appeal because it's like four maybe on social media when you pose. You have to think about it. They're going to be forever. They're less. You purposely deleted. Eh your your head doesn't even have to go through a filter weather. You wanna post this or not and most people on your snapchat is going to be your close uh-huh anywhere else so really comfortable. How long did it last for when you posted something like twenty four hours. Oh okay so people could scroll through for those twenty hours. They would see your stuff but after that point it would just go away your also your stories and then you can also send pictures now your friend. Mhm and those were just like once you opened it. They were guarding c- couldn't save pictures no but also like puff like for example. Your friend sent you a picture like opening. It'll be on the screen for like ten seconds seconds gone but you could say patience i sent you you scrape screen shot it but then they would know if you screen shot at really own. Send them like an indication that yes they will be aware of it. You'd you have to be pretty quick to also to open it and know that you wanted to step two yeah wow but because of the temporariness who was free the sense that sounds somewhat now where were you when you were using snapchat i think around. Maybe a little bit u._s. More so alexi no. I'm okay okay okay. I heard about it. I just haven't really oh you. Did i miss that they also like purposefully targeted like you know students yeah and my nieces since were about that age i remember them like talking about it with their mom but i just was like what another app go away uh-huh so saturated that point i'm like no can't handle it so do you think that in your movement commit from china to the u._s. and back at singapore hong kong all of these places. Do you think that what you did online change because of where you were or because of that stage each of growing up because you've used online stuff longer than anybody in your view yet so we've got the complication of what you're doing in life changing a lot yeah along with your geography along with online things becoming available yet i think i think it was a combination of all them because being i'm like social media slow. It's like i didn't feel like i had a lot of control or like what online mediums i chose to thrice myself it. Kinda just felt like oh. You're pushed by this big wave of like everyone else was using and sometimes it just becomes was like necessary to use this tool rate. You weren't really making the conscious decision like oh. I should get on this because because i feel i want to be as you get older. You have more control over. I don't know having listened to. You say that i was like yeah. You're so right and i feel like i still even though i missed. I didn't have that wave of attack. During my money listen to a podcast wave of tech anyway. I didn't have that digital pressure in high school but i definitely feel like once. It became a the facebooks in that like hotmail before casebook in those kinds of things whence those started to happen. I feel like even now now. I get kind of caught up in what's available online what new things people are using and i'll experiment with it and like it's probably more important job job wise where things are but i definitely want to go to the places where people are because that's where you find most stuff yeah so i feel like it's still relevant even now exactly actly to this old person right here. It's kind of hard to pitch in the current. Which is why i just fine the raising my best friend's couch. Stay away from it. I guess easier because if you decide to not jump in the wagon when it first comes on slide easier to ignore the rest of it whereas if you kind of hopped on to whatever it's like you're down this whole sloppy hill ooh very very very very big rabbit hole. That's so drew feel free not to answer this but the alexandria who was recently on virtual expats wants to know to use dating apps do you or have you ever used dating apps alexandra. It's very personal. Oh yeah i think i was also something that was like you felt caught in a way because in college i think a lot of people were like onto nourishes nine using it to meet people i guess yeah and that was something to people ever really fight friends on tinder. I hear people saying i just wanna meet some friends of news. Tinder is that real because i missed that entire rave i mean i just i also become a bit skeptical on that. It was one of those things that you hear. People talk about so much and you're like wait. What is this thing that you would like to curious. It's like what is all about and i think the ads like like i do at some point like you said but like i just enjoyed being on there and people watching these university environment yes your our friends like really funny like so. It's not i literally was married before this even so old so i thought it was just you saw the people that fit what you were looking for in the new to swipe one way or the other okay so you'd see like your classmates on their sometimes. It was nice seeing like buddy yeah. It's just like it's another social media arapahoe. It's different than like instagram or facebook night you just facebook and instagram you slide down your timelines. Keep swiping. It's it's like yeah. It's a way to entertain yourself. Oh i said this really creepy actually was really informative but it makes you a little to wear social media video where they talked about that swiping thing or the time like when you move like this and i just listeners. I can't show you what i'm doing but it's kinda like moving your finger down to go to the next the next the expert is a social media app as intentionally being like gambling <hes> being like a slot machine to redirect kind of thing and that's an intentional thing that we think what's gonna come up. It's going to come up and in fact that kind of excitement yeah so many people in a lot of social media. Just taking you know when you you know what will happen in real life into virtual is like you people watch real-life and then massive now you can people watch it. It's so true. Oh gosh i do that so i cannot judge. I am horrible on eh. Oh either. She recently biked from shanghai to london. Oh anyway even wants to know what would you do if you didn't have the internet anymore so that would take down all apps on your phone all virtual correspondence well aw that's shin people would enjoy life more in the moment you see. Cigarettes are so peaceful for me. I was like yeah three day in i'd start to worry and then start to pace than start to panic but i mean i think i think this question kind of brings me back to point in my life. I think it was college. I actually i i had this thought like none of just the whole online thing but like technology in general because i was a bit frustrated that like kind of in in college for example it was a huge vision school of course load but also like you discover everything is done through a project there everything under screen like in class you have to look at a screen the class you have to look at your computer screen and finish the work because there's no other way you can do it like an elementary eventually in like at least i would tell me like you've stopped option writing things down having on paper you'd have to faces screen all day but in college completely shifted everything and that just wasn't very yusup because high school's who was not like that yet classes are still small enough that teachers can just talk at you like right on the board and you can still hand in things so oh i think that was like a huge shift in terms of the amount of technology is using every single day getting bit frustrated with it and having that thought like think. Why do we need all this is like a too much for me but as with everything like i think people get used to things eason's so you learned to get used to that and and now at work you really can't leave your computer now such a vital vital part of what we do and i really wonder like i was in education for a while. There's so many times that i wanted to say that need to be honest grain <hes> do we need to be talked at with. I digital device or can we discuss this. Can we break this down on paper. Can we use the chalkboard chalkboard unending but in most places it was a whiteboard or whatever so it's like air there. Is there any other way we can do this so we're actually talking to each other not just looking at a screen and i love tech i love i love mobile attack but i think there's a lot of times that we revert to things that aren't necessarily productive for what we need to do and the kind of detaches similar i think we're are you going. Is it just the humanity enough screens times. It really does yeah dues the hat. What would we have done that with before like technology wise what was before the screen. It probably was the whiteboard in the chalkboard. Yeah people blue. Actually you know route stuff yeah but i wonder when people switched from papyrus flush paper to white boards and markers did did they have the same sort of kind of reaction to that question. I have no idea i remember one of the teacher. Turning things i went to they talked about <unk>. Pencils was once like innovative technology and i just went okay. That really makes you think like we get so used to like you. Were saying with the screens. We get so used to certain technologies just being there like i'm used to having a pen or pencil in my hand yeah but somebody at some point had to create that exactly what the heck were they using before oh yeah they were chipping at into stone or something where you saying or you think censored paint that they had to make with the brush. They have like extracts from animal here. I don't know i don't know i really wonder what will happen with her screen meantime because it is affecting our sleep to exactly yeah i think in the future might just if this anymore it's going to be a chore reality it because it will just be in her head's at that point it is it is but we don't have to be fatalist list but your answer like everything else you've described with your relationship to online stuff sounds very grounded. You're just like i'll just spend more time my real life or try john yeah all right so you've heard some of the questions at previous guests virtual experts have asked <hes> what questions russians would you like future guests to answer <hes>. Let's interest being. I guess oh my it could very well. Look back on like previous posts that you made after awesome. I have an entire customer okay. So have you have to plug every every chance i get. Have you ever looked back at a previous social like social media post by social media posts that you made and what were your thoughts. You knew what happens next right. You have to answer your question. No they said this one's definitely have my blog. Posts are a you know. It's almost like you don't recognize this personality because you run out of that the person yeah completely something different and i just find it really entertaining. Nowadays look back like you know everyone was like oh. I sound stupid back then but like now i was like you kinda learn to like you kind of look at it from a third person perspective respective now. This person was like this back then so i think it's always it's always interesting always like do this. When and i come across a breakthrough mild so should we oppose it. Just find it hilarious and entertaining and be thankful for college. I've have grown since then really healthy. I listen to far too many podcasts on podcasting not to get too meta and they say something very similar. They're like if you listen to your early podcast episodes and you're not embarrassed it means you haven't ground so. I think it's very similar to what you said. If you read something you posted years ago and do you not embarrassed but you feel some sort of like emotional distance from ed or you feel like that's a different person than it probably means you've grown and matured and that i feel like a positive step. It's not just about podcast. Every statement about all minor about podcasting can be extended to everything well on that note. I wanna thank you so much for an allieu virtual selects. Thank you so much. Thank you thank you to our guests. Take for sharing her virtual story with us for moore g._o._p. Up podcast episodes including the other two shows bookish ex pats and changing script goto steph fujio dot com s. t. e. p. h. f. view c. c. I o. or you can just search g._o._p. Let's don't forget the your podcast app. The podcast does not show up on your app. Do let me know and we'll make sure we get listed there. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions comments or to volunteer to be a guest on the podcast. My handle is literally steph fujio everywhere online line as promised here's damon <unk> d._o. And his band with the song i gotta be right off the massive mu album remember you can find all of his info including his albums and and his tour dates at damon castio dot com more next week see so knaw. I don't the day set the work. That's done that right now. I gotta be did the new the new new-ball supplies your grade back in iraq and then there's gotta gotta be bad list taste buds <music>. This will be bad data art <music> <music> w <music> and data <music>.