131. Abby Wambach (re-release)
This is a show about individual experience and personal identity. There may be times when folks use identifying words or phrases. That don't feel right to you. That's part of what we're exploring here. Please listen with an open heart and as always I welcome your plate engage feedback and I encourage you to continue the conversation in your own life and with your own community welcome to Hey Queiroz Cami your according from my apartment and yes you can hear some laundry in the background rattling around my actual in-person human book tour is cancelled which means that all those pre orders were refunded and also while you are in your home For the next couple of weeks I have planned virtual events with some really amazing raiders and podcasters and etcetera so. I hope that you've been following on social media because you can jump on them on zoom. You just need the meeting. Id Oh I should have. This already pulled up. You just need the meeting. Id which is for eight zero zero one nine nine nine one six. All the information about the different events is on my instagram. And my twitter. I've got events with Teagan and Sara and Not With Teen Sarah with teagan Quinn. Her own human and also I just had one with Rebecca sugar who created Steven Universe. Some other really awesome guests planned an upcoming can join me from anywhere and virtually go on a book tour with me That's what I'm doing to try to stay sane. Also I WANNA shout out Libro Dot. Fm which is a site that you can use to order the audiobook if you prior to the audio audio book the book should come out. Oh my book should come out tomorrow by the way the twenty fourth preorder the audiobook view. Libro you can then designate your local bookstore as the recipient of that sale. I think is really important to try to keep local businesses viable during this time. So that's something that you could do for the businesses in city You can go to Libro DOT FM and choose your local bookstore But yeah you can also get my book through Amazon or affable Anywhere and it's called. Save yourself and it is out tomorrow. March twenty fourth. In the meantime we are re releasing some episodes of Query. Because our podcast to you is shutdown. This episode is a chat with my friend. Abby Wambach who is an amazing Olympian and soccer star and human being and author? And Hey shoutout to Abbey's quite glennon doyle whose new book untamed hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Enjoy this chat with abby end. If you can grab that book save yourself would really appreciate it. Friends Take Care Aka me here. I'm on the balcony outside my apartment. I realize wanted to add something. Cancel tour for me. Means no income for any teacher months that I currently no so I just wanted to tell you that If you have it in your heart feel like they entertained. Save yourself is also available as an audio or e book on audible books. The big guys have it Amazon. Has IT or a noble? Has It Yeah cancelled tour. Means thousands of books returned with the tickets are not sold so anything you can do by care about it or just enjoy it and I hope you like. It came feeling still no careless. Good Morning. Good morning morning morning. We're actually it's currently happening. Can you believe it on this show? I always have folks introduce themselves. Would you introduce yourself well? I might be. I guess you've ever had that. Got A text message from her manager with my own bio for this very moment a and I just WanNa make it known to your followers in your listeners that I am not reading. This is off the top of my head. I mean all right. Yeah Yeah let's go. Let's let's hear that off the cuff android. My name is abby box. You may know me from the time that I played soccer for the United States. For many years It felt like centuries Melik such a long son. Amazing career I've got a couple of gold medals I've got woke up. Tb chip on. I've written a couple books now. One is coming out in April. Check it out. It's a wolf pack But I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I am what I call the wife of Glennon Doyle. My wife is amazing. And she is Really brought me back to life in a Lotta ways. So that's the thing that I kind of attach myself to the most And the thing most past. There's so many cool things to discuss in that very off the cuff intro by WanNa Start Abby by I got a chance to meet you. We did some live shows together for part of municipal. By the way you are so funny like you're brilliant but you're just you're fucked your tiny. I swear on this of course yet. Your timing is so on point and you're funny and I just feel like we see the world berries similarly so all of your jokes really landed on me. Oh thank you for saying that you know. I don't know what it's like for you. I'll say when you started talking I was like. Oh my God humiliating. I think she's about to give me a compliment like shoulders changed. I'm just saying Oh look how am I going to survive this? You did it. I did it I got to the other side. I had a lot of fun with those shows that we did. It's like it's A group of people and I was the only stand up on the on the dates that we did. And that's like a very fun situation for me to do stand up in because I feel like I actually. I actually liked that vibe standing up like getting up in the middle of Some folks were funny but maybe not telling jokes specifically because I feel like I'm like Oh man if you liked those witticisms you're gonNA love these jokes. That have been crafted over years. You know. Yeah it's like. It's a perfect platform for you to just crush exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes we actually brought a real comic and put a real comic like yourself on stage you know together tours what we actually I met doing It's one of those things that I feel really proud of a been a part of it for a few years now and my wife is actually the CO creator of it And the whole idea was to get women. However you identify yourself to be celebrated end to celebrate From different walks of life from different artists in industries as you yourself found yourself to be the the actual comedian. I try to be funny jokes. Not Landmark like yours do but it was really fun to be able to share the stage with you and to see how real comedians actually work. Well what I what I also took away was watching you know. I don't I don't know how I would imagine that for you. That is like such a monumental shift. I mean I know that in your well. I don't know I would imagine I would guess that in like your role as a leader on your team and also as somebody who is so famous for the sport that they played that you had to speak in front of people a lot but was that often live like I imagine. You know you're like you have a lot of experience on TV. You have a lot of experience in the spotlight. You have a lot of experience. Speaking in front of large groups of people live yet. You know it's interesting. That's a good question because I think what I was able to do on steeled gave me a platform off the field and I think that you probably can understand this. That what your craft is right. What you're good at what you are. Probably most known for in the world of women that we can't be one dimensional In a lot of ways and I think especially in the early stages of women sort you know. Forty years ago title nine happen and It was one of those. It's been a long period of time that women have padded continually fight. What we currently now have And so I had. I knew at a certain point in my career I had to develop Not a speaking ability but the ability to get up and to tell our story and I think that's I like camp. I like didn't I never thought of that Abbey till this moment till you just said that to me. Yeah and honestly I think that many women probably don't understand that they've been having to do seventeen different things to enable them to do their one. Crass right men don't have that same pressure or responsibility and that is part of the long fight that women are continually having to go on and these these Requirements that it takes a woman to actually be successful is outrageous so the idea for me to get up and speak might hope. Is that one day. You know that that next player. Who retires won't need to have to have that same a skill set that that covers wide range because some people are stagefright. Some people are terrified. Getting some people aren't eloquent. Some people don't like that some people just WanNa play their sport or just comedy. You know and they should do that. So it's GonNa take some more time but It's not lost knew that I was lucky. Able to get on stage and to have confidence on stage and then have a story to tell like have a message. That's that's also kind of important. Yeah I think I think about that in my own job of course because I've lived my job. You know. I know the things that I had to do. That are tangential to my my specialty And I'm and I I like it and I. I think that there are some benefits but I think you pointing out the like of course is true and I think I've probably even said this. But the pressure on women in your field to lake. Explain the job that they're doing as they do it. That's what that's what it feels like in comedy a lot it. Sometimes I get this question a little bit less but I don't know five or ten years ago there was it. Every interview would include. What's it like being a woman in comedy and so it's it is completely it's a? It's just a lot of energy to have to explain what you're doing as you're doing it. I think that's a little bit what you're talking about two and yeah and it's offering rating because you know you spend ten minutes explaining what a woman's place is in Commie or in sport and I might get your wish for the next generation of women athletes and Women Medians Is that? They don't have to waste any time explaining what it's like to be a woman in comedy or woman in sort. They're just an athlete or they're just a comedian. Like let's drop stupid pronouns that people can't understand what freaking human beings. We go through the same stuff we travel. We SACRIFICE WE TRAIN. We blood sweat and tears the exact same so That's kind of my mission over the rest of my life. I've kind of made a new career for myself trying to make sure that the people who come behind me don't struggle in the same way that I did and maybe the same ways to eat it. Was it always soccer for you? Like you're a little kid. What were you playing as a little kid? I was playing anything anything right so I was. I still am a total attention or my wife says that I'm competing with the ten year old ten year old daughter for who gets she's like you're actively trying to get more attention than the child will youngest shower in our family like. I don't know what that means but yeah I was always a great athlete and I think that gave me a sense of confidence a sense of self and an ability that everybody else had so it gave me that. I think that other element that some people have inside of them to kind of continue to pursue that that elusive dream whether playing neyland picks or whatever. Whatever it is. You'RE YOU'RE END DREAM. Gold like the best thing that could ever happen in in in the thing that you love to do and I grew up in. A huge family is the youngest So watching my brothers and sisters play sports you know. I just kind of always had this knowing like I'm going to be able to do that a little bit better than them are. They athletic like today today today. Have Sport Sport Kerr even a even in like high school college sort of thing today. Play sports my sister back actually went to Harvard Basketball Harvard She was one of the number one three point shooters in the country at one point college. that was a very big claim to fame in my family until of course. I went to college in started winning National Championships in my other sister. She offer Xavier University. Oh that's where we went and met no way. No real yeah. My parents went to savoring mother. Have they ever been? What is it called Not Six flags isn't success. Oh Cedar Point I dunno naming places that are in Ohio. I have no. It was like it was a a an amusement park. That had this really crazy. Big Kings Island. Oh sure guess. They've been to kings island. Yeah I went there when I visited my sisters all I remember about the ad came from really athletic family. My brothers played sports all through high school and then kind of went for my dad wants college and never really pursued you on that so I was lucky I was lucky to be involved in a family that was very sports centric and valued for Given that I ended up doing it as a profession. Yeah what about your parents did they? Did they have some natural athleticism or any? I mean I'm imagining like what you would you tell me. Those facts The context that that's giving me that you weren't even like the first woman in your family to have to play college level. That's I mean that's extremely unusual and then especially like in the time when you and I were growing up 'cause like now like I mean this is still true now and it was more true than and this is not a huge gap between now and then in terms of time. But my dad was dad was a super athlete He was really quick fast. I think attracts ends. He football and wrestled but after high school went to go work for his father My my great grandfather and grandfather had like a a a farm San a little farm stand and then it turned into a farm so My Dad took over that business and never got to kind of see. The fruits of his Labor he lived quite vicariously through his daughters which which is so evident in the way that all might my sister Beth and Laura myself were very independent. And we're very strong in. My Dad will take complete credit for that but I have to on us in. Give most of the credit to my mom. You know being a a wife back in the gosh you know back in the late sixties early seventies Shoes a stay at home. Mom raised and raised US Catholic. So she had. She had a unique set of value systems in place and I think one thing that she really broke three from wanted us to break free from. Is this whole idea. That we needed to be reliant on a man Too Happy You know and I think that was something. All of us really took seriously. Mom always told me. Don't you need to make your own money and you need to put yourself friends a position where not serving. Only somebody else Yourself so I learned those real values and I think my sister's Eldest sisters doctor and now actually doesn't practice any. Martin mother of six children and then my next Laura she's she's a teacher so I think my parents did a really good job of raising us and they are not without salt. You know I mean God love them. They did the very very best that they could But I think you know they they really did put inside of US girls Idea of value system our independence not really has been with me throughout my life. Do you know where your mom got the idea like I think about you know her telling you to make your own money or something like that. That's like a radical concept. Yeah she got. Ill Nicholson piss money. Fair Enough Yeah. That's that's very good Causing effects as hard as he did right you can go to work in the morning all. She had seven children to to deal with a lot of a lot of people out there with Sushi work ten times harder because he was dealing little humans running around making a mess of everything so I think that I think that anger probably is a huge marker for her that allows her to to make decisions and allow her to treat us in deterrent dozen. Guide us in kind of a like. Put it in your words rockaway Well this is all like I I mean I can. I can really two ton of the stuff that you're saying you know. I was raised Catholic. my dad. My Dad always wanted to be a singer and then you know he's a lawyer so it's definitely there was a time when I lived in Chicago. And that's where he lives when I used to set up shows where my little sister's also singer and my family would I would throw these like Italian. Themed shows where my family would be backup singers for me. as a and by the way just so you know they love this job and it is very it's a very specific thing Having you know in my case I'll say having like my dad made all these choices to work hard to like further our social standing in like send me to private school things like that like semi to Catholic school to he worked his ass off to like shoveling asphalt put himself through law school so that he could send me to Catholic school which like honestly pretty sure that wasn't worth it And then you know so that then I could like turn around and like live the dream that he never got to live. I mean there's a lot of I have a lot of feelings about this a lot like there so there was so much loss along the way them trying to do right by US. But we have to remember. This is something I have continually come back to you in especially with my relationship with my parents and my mom you know. It wasn't easy coming out to them. It wasn't easy getting them to understand that I was going to do what I wanted to do. Whether or not they believed to be sin or whatever it was like I always have to keep reminding myself that our parents are good people and they were they were doing what they thought was best at that time because we have to remind ourselves at like. It's easy like hindsight is twenty. Twenty right in easy to look back on the history of our lives in all the things that went wrong and point blamed where parents were putting these crazy positions but at the time they were really truly feeling and thinking that That it was the best decision for us now. Could they could go back and cheese things now. Knowing who turned into of course I think that they probably would make different choices but they were assuming the time that we were going to turn into what would be quote unquote your average normal human being right and I think that that is really important for parents out there when they're making certain decisions about how to guide their children who lives is. You always have to remember that your kid could be However small percent it could your kid could be trans- your kid could be by. Your kid could be a homosexual whatever. It is whatever remarks you have to remember as possible so you never want to have to have your children unlearn stuff that you force them to learn as a child. Yeah that's real. I mean when did when when did you did that happen for you. When did you come out here? Folks just General Age Range. I was twenty two told my mom when I took her to a Mexican restaurant because I felt like I gotta do this in public for some reason. Oh I did it the Nordstrom cafe but it wasn't my my mom asked me but anyway. Yes Raboteau Norstrom cafe tuna sandwiches. Keep going on I you know and and I came out with this in the most strong way like me a little bit like I'm just like my personality is like I am basically all or nothing so I wasn't going to late whimper into the conversation I didn't want her to have any reason to doubt what I was saying so I basically said to her mom to tell you something I am a lesbian so you just the strongest word that you can use that makes it you know undeniable to here and she she. She did her very best. At the circumstances I think my mom has had known for a long time But her belief system made it harder for her to hear those words right so she told me a few times like no. You're not no you're not no you're not and you know ten years later. I had to come out again and remind her. I still am lesbian. Doma it was kind of our our our little secret that we didn't share with the rest of the family although I told my brothers and sisters Yeah cool. We've known forever you know so. Yeah that was that was when I was twenty two and then I think maybe when I was twenty nine seven or eight years later. Add to remind her that this was still the case had not change and this was my less when twenty two. What was going on in your in the rest of your life at that. Time like I'm trying to time stamp like were you out of What was what was going on. You just left to enter into the Women's professional soccer league was the it was then called the w essay and there's been a few integration since two thousand three is when I started to get more In invitation supply the national team in two thousand four. Two thousand three two thousand four mostly a main stay on the national team so once the national team stuff started to happen than it was real easy to sweep my sexuality under the rug and not talk about it Because I had this other massive focal point that I continue to relate with my parents around Wow that's really interesting. Yeah I mean if I were to go back in time I would do things differently because you know that was that was also not wanting to actually deal with the relationship that I was trying to cultivate with my parents in. So it's taken you know fifteen or twenty years actually have these hard conversations And you know being brought up Catholic. I was an I've I've just figured this out My struggle was. I felt like at the time I was having to decide between my mom and God or myself And you know up until six months ago. I'm almost thirty nine up until six months ago. I had this revelation like Oh actually God is not separate than me and Got Us not separate? The my mom and God is not church right so I had been feeling like this. This guilt Catholic Hill that were all natives feared an NCO less than shame about about myself. An average is getting really mixed up so. I'm glad that I've heard it's actually allowed. Have a little bit of dealing with my relationship with my mom because she's getting older. I don't WanNa have things that are outside so no for all of your listeners. Having the hard conversations now Will first of all saved conversation for you. Know you're just saving the conversation for later or or worse case scenario won't ever have it You Know God knows what happens after that. So have the hard conversations with your parents or your family now Get them to to see you. Get what you want to say Because you're going to have to stay at eventually get it over with. Yeah I mean as a particular set of circumstances though that to what you're talking about I was a little younger. I was But not much is nineteen but a lot of things were different between what you're describing in my situation. I was still in college. That my folks were helping me pay for and It was Catholic college and so I was still getting messaging. They're on like you. Couldn't you come out you could be kicked out of school So like for me that actually to your point It did sort of force me to have well. I I'll say I'll say this. Sometimes it's just like straight up not safe to have some of these conversations. You're talking about when it's safe yet but you're just making a choice or whatever and I get that. I think because of the specifics of what I'm talking about I did have to have those conversations like very into very Focused way just because Like I wasn't it didn't have any I didn't have this other thing going on or like a job or something else that was pulling me in a different direction. I had to dislike kind of work. It out with them. Over from like nineteen to twenty five is renewing old environment to you. Because you were being. You're asking them for their resources to go to to this crazy college. That's not allowing you to actually be yourself because of their belief system so it's it and I understand every situation very different. Obviously on safety is the number one priority but yeah That's our end I'm glad that you had those conversations. You know yeah I mean I have. I have a lot of compassion for you because like the pressure cooker of all of that. Kind of just. You know you're right like it did like. By the time I was twenty five. I was living back in Chicago and dating a woman that they liked and it was just like okay now we you have to get over this now look it was just it was so it was such a finite amount of time because it was so big and I'm imagining like in your case Yeah that's that's a long time to sort of carry that That like dance that you're doing where because I certainly did that during that time there was a you know. Went home for Thanksgiving and didn't bring my partner because or like brought somebody in. She was my friend like I did that all but it was all just very condensed and I certainly know how stressful that is to try to figure out like sort of who can hear what about your life like who in your life can hear what things about your life that. Komo compartmentalization is It's it's so isolating and And I I just have a lot of compassion for what. I'm assuming you must have been going through at that time. Which is a lot of a lot of like redirecting towards a sucker whatever or that also added a layer of pressure to the whole thing. Because I started to get a little bit more famous my name was a little bit more out there. And so you know my mom at one point just beg me not to come out publicly You know and it's this whole idea of perception. And the way that the outside world perceives your family in the way that I was raised. And how that's GonNa reflect on my parents so I have to hashing for my mom. Also but here's the thing you know it became this pressure cooker and that kind of led me down really difficult path towards the end of my career and a lot of things were kind of coming to a head for me and I was really struggling with alcohol In pills and and so that was the other side of it where I was placating and wanting my mom's security and acceptance while all the while not listening to my own needs And so I went the opposite direction in started making bad choices for my personalized for my personal body And so I think that there is. There has to be the balance of an protected. The there has to be protection in place for you in your cells. That is is long-term. Right as soon as I started to struggle. You know as soon as I actually started struggling and then you know when when it should actually hit the fan I got a Dui like my life changed as I got sober. And I was able to actually have these hard conversations on I was actually able to create boundaries and create a life for myself that felt really good because of my gang. S Not in spite and I think that I needed to get to that point unfortunately I needed to get so low that I just had nothing else but but the requirement of accepting who. I was and accepting of what a life I wanted and then go out and create it so you know as much as I would love to sit here and blame my parents for every little thing that ever went wrong in my life like I am here now. I'm because of them. Some of that struggle though it was hard and though it was very real has allowed me to get stronger in ways that I wouldn't have right and so it's not. It's not all for not right like I understand to everybody's stories different in everybody's Kane is different everybody's reaction to it is different. But for me I want to be the narrator of my story and in order to take control of all the aspects of it and I don't Wanna I don't WanNA blame I don't want to give out any of the power that have been able to curate for myself create for myself so I wanNA take that on myself and he. The strongest daycare can be yes. Be the strongest. Even be one thing that I feel like so often I mean even still now the messaging certainly when I was coming out even still now the messaging of Lake. But why do you have to be out? Or why'd you have to identify Lake you're wearing button downs all the time as like something that's queer or like. Why do you have to tell me about your life? You know like that kind of thing. I still feel like I hear that. I feel like I've heard that the entire time relates to you trying to bottle things up and it I it is. The premise is flawed. Because it's it's not A choice you know. I don't feel like it's a choice not sexuality. I'm specifically talking about whether or not to tell people what's real in your life. I feel like we still kind of talk about that. As if it's like you know Could sh should you come out or should you identify the things in your life that are part of Queer culture or should you Talk about what you like about being gay or anything like that and you know that's a lot coming from like a it's to keep us afraid. Keep US feeling marginalized often but I think another part of it is just like for a long time. I also think we're folks have have accepted that we could do this or that and I. I just feel like for long term health. It's not so much choice and that doesn't mean like you know everyone in your life has to know at this certain time in this certain way It just means that that like I. I don't I don't think it's the best idea for anybody to walk through their life being unknown by the people that they love our expression. I think you're talking about self expression right. And what makes comfortable is when they are able to express themselves in this little box that they live in or insular community that they live in and they see somebody lives across the street. Looks like them talk like them. You drive the same car who their kids go to the same school that is patriarchal system. That has been set up for all the rest of us. People to live by his. Like unknown codes of conduct be silent. Rules that we've been operating under and I think for the most part right people. Just do it like you ride. You drive your car. Rates other road is law. It's understood and we have these invisible codes of conduct culture right that either. Keep us feeling safe or unsafe. And I think that self expression is independent of each other. Every single person has a different reason or desire or way to create Who they are as an identity as a human as a Stanley as its nudity as a country. And what the Patriarch. He wants us to do right. It is they need to keep the people that they are governing and they are in power over afraid of each other so they've created. These boxes needs labels that make it easier to quote unquote understand each other and to connect to each other but actually what they are beers to keep us afraid of each other and to keep us apart because the number one thing for power fewer right. White Man. You're in power to stay in power to keep the people that they are in power over afraid of each other and I think that that's where this whole conversation gets an Fascinating second of all it's not easy An and by the way. There's so many marginalized groups that are being named. You're afraid of each other right. Oh I'm a part of this church so I can't be friends with any any homosexuals or I'm a part of this church I can't And and so my point being is off expression is such a beautiful thing but the culture that we live in is the thing that inhibits people from expressing way off because we might not have actual English words to define who want to deem is because we're multitudes right and so my wife's whether or not we talk about this all the time like we are. We ARE FLUID. Like you know we look at the political system right now and it's gross like obviously. I am not anywhere near pub inside but you actually look at what. Democrats stand for right now. That doesn't feel very enticing. Though I still going to vote for them it just feel ropes and so I've been made to see her not attaching myself to Democratic Party. Each has then all of my rights will go out the window but true this we have to get a little bit more comfortable in attaching ourselves to things that are not finite that are not binary because as we evolve as a species. You're going to find out none of that. Shit fucking matters were has and it never will. It's just a it's a bullshit concept that has been made up by white men to keep the rest of US check. Many conventional deodorants contain aluminum. Which forms of plugging your sweat glands to keep you from sweating? That's the ad copy and that is disgusting to say so if that's actually happening to you if there's a plug in your sweat glands. I've got great news. Native Deodorant is made without aluminum or aluminium. If you're in London specifically I think that's true across the UK. See you can feel better about what you're putting on your body while smelling and feeling fresh all day long no plugs dude of Deodorant is formulated without parabens or Talq. 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That's more personal on what you're talking about so I think the way that you present you know the haircut that you have in like the clothes that you wear For small you look awesome. Thank you Second of all you know it's it's still Osceola it's no it's still Like your vibe of I mean what are you? What would you call your haircut? It's like Chen shaved on the sides than there is like a there's with a skunk long. Yeah Yeah You know like that's still an unusual look and it also is like there's people that have been claiming. Erlich wearing or trying on masculinity whatever words WE WANNA use And I'm wondering if that's like always been comfortable for you like having the haircut that you have or like wearing a suit to an awards show or Like a motorcycle jacket. When you're on in front of folks that always been something that felt. Interestingly enough I think that I I'll be super honest like it wasn't I didn't start doing it until I. I actually comfortable in my skin in what that means for me is a stop trying to please people on me outside in started trying to please myself Which is a very foreign concept for a lot of women out there. He had tried to match your insides. The way that you look on the outside is a foreign concept for human beings right. They see somebody wearing what they think they should be wearing an and they tried to replicate it right so so. That's an extra colonel motivator. So I've been doing a lot of work especially over the last. I guess must be nine to ten years Because you know being the Captain Olympic national team for many years I also felt a massive responsibility to not be quote. Unquote stereotypical lesbian. I was GONNA ask amber. What your Harry's to look like you know like the Like the wrap up tape or whatever the heck that's called you like wearing your hair that's like a very Soccer thing and also is like I mean I you know. Of course I play sports too. I didn't play sports. The to the sense that you did the messaging that I got was like okay. Play sports like don't be gay about it and I can't imagine that that stopped as you continue to have more eyeballs on you like if I was getting that messaging in high school. I can't imagine that like suddenly that gets less. I would imagine that would get more well with me as it relates more eyeballs more fame were more. Responsibility Capcom. I just didn't want the rest of the world to think that our entire team was gay. Yeah that was something because I was. I knew that there are millions of kids out there who didn't identify in the same way I did. That would look at the team and see the leading goalscorer needed most famous player on the team and not be able to see themselves in me right. I got that but then you know Megan or Pino came on the scene and all these other young kids who dislike. Didn't really care as much as I did about pleasing everybody else out there And we had enough players that are making name for themselves and as soon as I actually started to accept who I was inside and not trying to please the people on the outside I started to wear whatever the hell I wanted to wear You know living in La for seven years helped with that because I was just in board shorts and sandals the whole time But then you know now my style. Whatever you WANNA call. It has evolved in a way that events for businesses in corporate corporate world in their business. This is the business attire situation. Now like all right. Well I'M GONNA WANNA wear. I wear a nice cool pair of shoes and a nice watch. That's not like excessively dressed up. It's I mean. Certainly there are no rules on. What is a business attire? If you're somebody who is like the kind of casual tired that you and I were. Certainly that is very difficult to figure out difficult to find. You have to. You know the the ideal situation is like that you have the suit made and then like how expensive is that? And how time consuming and all these things super complicated I also. I just want to say that just on the point just on that very small point that you made your thinking like. I don't want everybody to think I don't want people to think everybody on the team is is gay but the the opposite side of that is that we are fine with the idea that that people would think everybody on the team at straight. It makes me feel like I'm so poisoned. We're also poisonous in our own. Shame and guilt of stuff that you know any. Glennon is all the days trying to remind me or or or point out things that don't really ring true that are still of the old thought process of the the patriarchy. And it's like these are things. This is something that is so important. That's why I wrote. This book is because we are NAM to in bleeding. Some of the things we believe like we don't even understand that wearing wearing certain clothes as a kid for me when my mom put me in address to go to church or whatever it was she used to dress me. Intel Brits Clothing of course I wore that shit go ahead. It was absurd and add this metaphor like I felt like I was literally holding my breath till the moment. Unzip IT and get it off of my body you know And did I die? No but maybe like a little bit inside like maybe part e you swallow enough poison. You'RE GONNA get set and I think that that is our culture. I think that a way that we all interact with the outside world. You know we are all drinking in a certain amount of poisonous especially all of the little girls out there. In the messages they see about what it means to be however they identify a woman a man whatever it is you know like we try to point our kids to things that are obnoxiously pager right whether it be like a hooters commercial. We like point to a me. Say What are you guys see? And they said we see a lot of boobs and we see women trying to sell chicken wings and we're like okay water women's bodies for like they're for running and playing and thinking in studying and Mike helping each other like okay. What are they not right so like we are having an also away? Parenting was a perfect excuse to unlearn some of this shit. We've been. Wow that's amazing. I mean you know what that makes sense to me. It makes that that gives me a lot of because I read the because I read. I read the Booker and Wolfpack in You know my my thought was like first of all I was like. Yay absolutely everything. And there's like is so helpful in like right on the money and like you know and then I also and I think maybe part of this is like just because of my job. I read that book and I was like I wonder how much of this is like. I don't know if you've gotten I don't know if you think about Alexis but I often think about the work that I make. It's like literally the work I needed to see an and I didn't see it out there and then like now I'm thirty seven and I make this work in. It's like it's it's it's for you you know it's like for collect the collective view but it's like for the the sad little me and like that is it's like so much hope there because. Oh my God I've I've put myself in the position where he can do that and then I have like I also kind of like sadness and I think that's okay too. You know like sadness for that Little Cami that I'm like. Oh Man kid like I wish you know. I wish. I wish you didn't have to write this book at at the age that I am now a write this Stand UP SET BECAUSE I. I wish that this had existed for you. You know and I don't know if you felt that way at all in writing that like the orange you you become the teacher you wish you had the income the that you wish you had become the backbone that you wish you had enormous at that. That is life right. It gives us perspective that gives us a deeper wisdom and understanding of life. Widely did what we did. And you know a lot of the stuff that I write about on Wolf Pack They really are just basic rules. That we all operate like like every person every woman out there can understand the moment when they were the only woman in the right weather e at work or somewhere else in and they may have something to say the date they felt like this urge to talk but then they looked around and they're like oh I'm the only woman I'm just GonNa stay quiet right or when you finally get the promotion or you get the raise and like the only emotion that you allow yourself to feel as a woman is just grateful right like not like we need to learn that it is okay for a human being regardless of what gender. You are how you identify that when something good happens like be grateful and you also get continue demanding more leisure. What's a freaking birthday? I mean I you know I also say like for Queer folks Also we don't always have to make choices to put ourselves in places where we are in the majority like they're certainly like shows or bars or you know whatever meet up spots that you can assert coffee shop But that situation that you just described as just as much more prevalent for Queer folks because like I mean. I think we're seeing with younger generations. That like the number of people that openly identifies is shifting. But you know sometimes you're you literally are the only person not just in this room late in the office or whatever because of whatever like our geographic isolation Or you might be the only person that's like also a person of color you know or whatever. It is the the Many things that are true for you and identities that you carry that like you know might might continue to pile on recent stew shut up or whatever so I definitely think there's also a lot of clearness in what you're speaking about of course And that is why. I think this book is so revolutionary. Because it can. You can attach yourself. Any marginalized group can attach themselves to all of these these philosophies of thought because you know the end of the day like there are so many people out there that have been persecuted or have suffered because of their Their marginalisation whether it be their flatness or their their clearness or their gender or their sexual whatever it is you have been persecuted from for being person like like. I have to like sometimes actually break it down like think about person as a little bit a little bitty baby baby and like how could you mistreat this? This little baby. How can you? How can they need to this baby? How can you like? That's how that's for me. Whenever I have Reggie moments against certain people in our government I like. I don't WanNa be that anger. I don't WanNa be that ratings right so you know. I want to be given the same respect as I'm requesting from other people and I think empathy is the way through. We have to find ways to build bridges and I know for some people on their lives have taken them in many different ways suffering in pain. But I think that the only way we can go through. This is by reclaiming our power as people and giving each other the same. Kind of power individually And and it's hard building bridges honey otherwise everybody would do it in the world five. Of course I mean I think even just anger you know angers like real difficult to To figure out how to deal with because because there there are you know. There's like small anger and then there's like you know big anger. I mean I I find that myself. Sometimes I'm I'm just in this place right now where I am wondering if everybody gets to have a bridge built to them and that's just so you know that's a real honest place analysis of the place that I'm in we're like I've just really have felt in the last couple of years like I've been working to that end for a long time and now I'm like you have to. You know I have been like putting in a lot of bridge work and so like I really expect like a lot. More Bridge work on your end than that. I think you've been delivering and it's but that doesn't that doesn't You can't control other people so the brave sir. Absolutely also they cross it. But here's the thing like you also have non-negotiable like we're talking about people who cross boundaries that are not acceptable for anybody to come to your island for anybody China Bridge. You're trying to span across to any any person out there right so like your non-negotiables are your your batteries. And you hold onto them And and if somebody can make it across your bridge like more power to them for me thing. I'm certainly not like you're amazing so if like you don't WanNa Come D. and hang out with me on my island like chatter. Yeah Yeah Yeah Fair Enough. Yeah Cool Fair Enough Man. I okay this is. This is a part that I like absolutely want to ask you an. I'm just looking that we have about ten minutes left. So I'm going to redirect the in this area ready. I wonder if people ask you about this. You'll have to tell me okay. Abby like Highest goalscorer of any human ever and international play. True that is true. Yeah okay so we're like like a real like a real goat And you are in your late thirties. You've said how does your body feel. Oh Yeah so. Do people ask you first of all yet. Will they do? Actually because every person on planet Earth thinks I'm the most fit person on earth. No I feel like you used your body like you used your body hard and you're so good and you and you and it was for a long time. Yeah years and I'll give you a little bit of rundown. I retired at the end of two thousand. Fifteen and your listeners. May Not know this about me. Fitness was not my favorite so having to do all of that to stay fit and stay at the top of my game. So many years was literally and figuratively. Just exhausting. I was just so freaking over it. I didn't WanNa do another sprint. I didn't WANNA lift another wait so I didn't for two years. I became very sedentary. I gained some pounds. I will gladly admit that I scared myself in in in the in the bathroom naked a few times. Like what is that on your ass valuate? Where did you come from? And and that was something that I actually spiritually needed. Because like like I was saying earlier like this external and internal motivation and what was once an internal motivation to be the fittest strongest and fastest quickly became an external fear of not making the team and losing my position. Not Scoring many goals. So I've actually been doing over the last six months. I start working out again. Six months ago and I've been working relentlessly on trying to figure out how to internally motivate myself As opposed to this this fear this external motivator that kept me on the T for so many years And that has been really hard but my body really needed a break. I mean I have a a titanium rod in my Shin. I've broken my nose. My orbit toes countless toenails. Loss shoulder issues Tour Ligament in my knee hamstring issues. I mean countless angles brands so my body actually needed to actually govern to a little bit of a hibernation So long story short my body felt like Shit and I I let my body off the hook for a couple of years and I needed that. I really needed like that spiritual disengagement from my actual body and then six months ago I just started running literally like forrest. Gump running just like running not suffering. 'cause for thirty years as a pro athlete. You kinda get comfortable in what we call the red zone which top heart rate zone And that is the period of which your body actually starts to shut down so develop lactic acid and Your your your body down when you get into that red zone not to get too boring and scientific on you when you to the red zone. It's basically like you. WanNa kill yourself in parliament that expression because I know that there are a lot of mental health people out there but that that is essentially what you feel like you you WanNa stop everything and you no longer want to exist And so having thirty long thirty year long career in that perpetual state of always pushing your body to that Max was something that I got over really quick. So I'm just going on these long or scum runs. That's what I'm doing now while well first of all I think I mean maybe you know this but people who didn't have your experience in your career I think we're we're also dealing with the equation that you just spoke about which is like the balance between what are you doing for other people are what are you doing for you know the way you look or what are you doing four to compete in whatever arena versus like what are you doing for yourself specifically as it relates to our bodies so. I think like you've you're SP- your experiences like so specific but you're also like you know not a Weirdo and everybody else around. You could probably relate to this concept of trying to figure out You know what's the stuff that she makes you feel good and I also I also think good on you Because another thing that was happening. You're you're said you're like look in the mirror like what is that. What that was is probably like what you're body kind of should at you know because of how bodies change over time but the kind of career you had your arresting your own development you know. You're you're like freezing yourself in time. And so you know Cigarillo Encino man moment where like waking up and and everything by shing really. Yeah but you know that stuff everything. That's that's happening is like it is You're using your body like a different machine than most people do and I'm really I'm really happy for you that you took some time and space to to figure out how you wanted to use the machine that you have now. Yeah and it's a work in progress. You know like Sherwood Used to be servicing. My Body as you'll be able to go in suffer a now. I haven't made the switch that I'm not supposed to eat so many fuelling calorie straight so beaching my body that I don't require as many calories. I'm not expanding as many calories. I mean you know people wouldn't ever think about me but I really struggled with with food control in it's like oh where does this come from? Like oh the time that it wasn't. I didn't live in a chaotic experience. In my childhood was at the dinner table and so I tried to recreate that experience every single time I e and so I go completely non stop thinking always over consume in that that was fine when I was burning. Three four to five thousand calories a day but now that I'm probably bringing to two thousand dollars a day depending on if I worked out you know these are things that that I'm struggling with. So if you're struggling with three look or the way that you're consuming or or your over consuming you're you're on your phone too much like these are real life things that every person no matter how great you think. I am struggling much. Yes yes friend yes I was a big jock like I mean that's again really different results. I was actually never asked to play for the national team. Much to my surprise I mean I also wasn't good at soccer but You know I was. I was a hardcore athlete at a time. In my life where that meant that I could hide disordered eating in that space where I could Like do an equation. That isn't true for the rest of your life or not his on five thousand teams at once. You're not always a teenager. You're not always Like you don't actually always feel good eating only low fat twist cones for McDonald's So you know yeah you grow up in and you have to constantly reorient and uncover layers and I'm just glad to hear you're doing so much. Solid work. Like congratulations to you. I feel like I feel what you're doing in retirement is like it's I mean it's more than you need to be doing for like the things you've already done but for a person who's GonNa live like the rest of their life as if the rest of their life you know. I'm really happy for you that you're like doing all this work. Well one thing that actually allowed me the space to see a sober life is that my wife's took me aside known each other for ten minutes and She wrote me this email in basically an email she just said look at the world actually needs you and needs you in your highest best. Most efficient cells right and this isn't like a moral thin. It's not like you were bad now. You have to be good. It's like the world needs people like you and actually heard that for the first time like if we actually want things to change and and we want more beauty than we have to actually go out and do it you know and be it and And I that that goes into dislike. Always remember that were continually recreating ourselves every day. Every every week every month every year and it's like children like as soon as you start to get into rhythm your kids like they change like all of a sudden they're different different person in you've got like the Agile and moves so that you can serve them in the best Fossil Winston. The same grace needs to be given to each human being we're always changing and Yeah so I'm I'm still working on it and I'm sure off forever. Well that's a perfect place to leave it and I wanna just ask you before I send you back into your day. Abby Wambach to shout out a queiro. Can You Let our listeners know of a person place or thing that made you feel confident being who you are today? Actually somebody who I've I've just recently met over the last six months whose name is sandy ruled and he is an executive for verizon media I run a leadership program inside of rising media. And he is a queer fellow and somebody who is living kind of an an abnormal lace right in in our minds like in our in our like brainwash minds like gay folks. Don't make it to the C. Suite level right don't to executive level of big corporations in this beautiful man you know he has just been such an inspiration. Such a leader You Know He. He talks the talk and he walks the walk. He's brilliant and he's beautiful and he has really Not only helped me personally. But the way he walks in the world is helping all gay people everywhere and he's not that's not his mission. It's not why he's doing it it just who he is an I really. I really admire him. Look we'll think savvy so awesome talking to you thank you for making. Yeah we had a great time.