Welcome one welcome all welcome you do yours and marchers to the beat of any drum at starbucks. We know that wellness has a lot more to to do with finding your unique journey than following the latest trends. That's why we have something for every taste every craving every mood and every you you like our new coconut milk law Tei an almond milk honey flat white because not journeys are the same and what makes it right is that it's yours. I love. Supreme is a production of iheartradio. Turned me up a little bit. I bet the Primo Role Supreme Supreme Roll Call Suprema Roll call premium clean. We making them chips for Sudan. Say fritos mostly beds accident ball. Toronto Jio at Darul supreme supreme a prima suffering. Well Roll Call. My name is sugar. Guga Nido to be right here on iheartradio. Roll off your favorite black one with my man Tito now. Jackson Brokaw Sat Prima Prima go name. Yeah Northern Indiana Boy Jackson family brought me a whole lot of joy. uh-huh pre roll call. Name is Terry Allen. My last name is Jackson Jackson. Yeah I come with the action. That's factual roll uh-huh roll roll so set free uh-huh. Wow Yeah. I just recorded a Song Jackson. This are second go to Jackson. Yeah yeah so we're we're experienced now we're we're honoring Jackson's ladies. Tell me and welcome to another episode. Of course love Supreme Surpreme. How you doing We got sugar. Steve Hello How's it going Scott. Good I'm never seen off thirty eight. That sounds like not enough data How's life stupendous and boss Bill? What's up wow even wasp bills? Happy their jobs you you know I usually start. Every quest love supreme episode with a barrage of hyperbole in praise that usually takes about about seven minutes right. If you don't know who our guest is the dailies Jomon sat and listened to cost love supreme and under a rock. Yeah some something in something. Shane Literally I. I will say a member of probably one of the most loving respected musical dynasties Celebrating Elaborating Mayor Fiftieth Anniversary. In show. Business wow I remembered soldiering in Brazil where it's like their tenth anniversary so business now it's fifty. That's incredible man. That's that's a legacy for. Yes Ladies and gentlemen what else can I say. But welcome Tito Jackson left Supreme Command Button Jackson regressing in you. When I walked in the room thought it was my nephew Harlem? Aw you taking care of yourself while always knew that you and your brother. Jackie had proper government names. That weren't your stage name Doc So how did you Was Tito your middle name or your. How did you get your moniker? Tito Papa Papa Joe Name me after boxer named Tito something I don't Tito's on your birth certificate. No it's not out. Never mind okay. My birth certificate name is Terry L.. Okay Tyrian Riana. Darrell Darrell Jackson. Those are so many names. Terrano Darrell Jackson. Darrell Darrell. Yes just the first middle the last like everybody else Margaret Terry almost darrow to talk on. I'm sorry what point were you miss. Every says I can remember all your life sibling. Most people know me Barry. Tito and what surprised me We have a corporation with the brothers in. My brother handed me a credit card American Express instead of having my real name Terry yellow hit Tito Jackson. I said Jackie I can't use right. I don't not one piece of. ID says Tito. Jackson Oh see I understand this because nobody in my family has ever called me by my birth name. I've always been either junior. Jim Book like really. Yeah nobody we call you bill. Yeah Oh okay only only my friends in in in people I work with coming by real name. Everybody else see another. I'll put this on the Internet. y'All mess yes June. I matter of fact oh you are so okay so tito was your ear nickname so always unless it's time to take out the garbage then where you like Attention SORTA chores. I have plenty of ice. Yeah so I I know. You're probably tighter recapitulating. The story over and over over and over again. Okay is there. Is there a question about Gary Indiana. That you've been asked that we don't know about well. Maybe I I don't know it depends on what you want. Ask what what. I'm really curious about I'm more curious about the creative process of of how things come together and I know that and without the whatever watchful eye of the iron hand of. You've drill sergeant. Joe Whatever but I know that to get to that level of perfection you have to put hours and hours and hours and hours is a practicing exactly so could you give me what a typical itinerary was pre motown down of you guys prepping for your talent shows. Of course I can't well. It was more like go to school. Come home put him books over in the corner. The Mike's already set up. All five microphones amp Sarah standby and we're doing it. And kids are still walking home from school and they're stopping hyphen. Bhai hearing the music pushing each other out the way. Try Take a look. Or whatever and we've rehearsed maybe three or four hours prior to doing the show that night usually coaches Chicago play the peppermint lounge of the high shop around something like that at home like two in the morning you know and Go to school school next day. Wake up his six seven in the morning go school. Were you allowed any downtime from when school let out to you home or was it like for me. The fear was you. Better be home before the Oprah thing comes on I had to be on After that bell by starts dancing my reaction when I hear that whistle. It's like I have to be home at three fifty. Remind me father's thing was when we weren't doing music he said don't let the streetlights catching yes. Those street lights are on the united in the house. You're in trouble yes. Okay so wait net. Can I ask a question. How often did you did you guys do the showcase all the talent show thing because you still where we rehearsed every day and we do our homework between breaks? Oh yeah and what kind of students. By grade students grade students we also travel with a tutor after after we had made it professionally and they have rules of course State laws. The kids have to work so many hours. Now he has to have so many Hours of a break so we have a teacher by the name arose fine and she taught she was so cool because she will let me smoke my cigarette cigarette right in class. I was smoking as a teen. You know rebellious Jackson. Some people say that but I don't think this is the first I really test the waters to like I'm a break curfew. You hit me with their bill. It was the myth to the whole guitar thing because it is that the way that was presented and and the the bio pic. You know you were doing cords and stuff for ready. So how long did it take you to from the first time you. I bet guitar to learn chords and all those things before the string broke. Doc took a little while to took at least three to four months. You know I was just plan with it and I. I used to go in Monka Luther. My father would play a lot of blues. Jimmy Reed three mom. Bb King All. These guys are most cool and I just thank you stare. You know he knew I was interested and I just dare and stare and when he would go to work he myself and Jermaine and Jackie he will go. I'm going to work for you. Boys touch my talk. I'm putting it here in the closet. You know we'd be being a key. You don't say that you WANNA touch even more so I Will Take Guitar Tab. Play it for hours. My mom would let me play it all day long and she said honey. You'll father can't be home soon. Put his away. You know so. She was protecting me me until I protest. During didn't how long did the Falcons last your father's. I have have no idea that because I was so young at that time. You know but they were around a little while I was basically Just a kid trying to play some music with mom my father and they would play blues all day and they had me doing. Don't don't they get all the lead parts and they give me maybe a minute at the end of the jam section. Okay you can play now. You know not play whatever I could you know mistakes and all whatever you know that was it. So by the time you guys were formed. And and the Falcons weren't necessarily doing no they weren't at that time okay. I see I just recently not discovered. I didn't realize there was a whole. Yeah I knew the steel town recordings right was a forty five but I didn't realize that there were a collection of other songs from that era but I mean of course you know someone's GonNa come up like start sitting in so half of it was just rehearsals. Whatever but at the time when you guys guys got your thing together with steel town? was that like an excitement thing like this is Jackpot. Can't get this. Oh yeah we thought we had may big time. You know local Labor while the Gary Indiana and they're they're reach wasn't very far. I think we thought we made some noise in Texas. We've made some noise and Gary. I can't think of any where else in America that it was hidden so that was pretty much the success S. of that I record. I'm a big boy now. Okay and knowing that you guys played the I guess you could say that but Chitlins circuit of the day. Were some of the venues that you major venues that were used to do. The Regal Theatre in Chicago and was that equivalent to the Apollo. Yes yes was Chicago. Version of Apollo Regal Theatre. We've seen in an open up for Jackie Wilson Gladys Knight poppy tailored Vancouver's. We were basically a local ban that pros use to come through Chicago. We we were the opening act and Every once in a while we go to the uptown and Philly and we'll go to the Powell theory here in New York and that was pretty much the big big dates for us so I would assume that your dad do all the driving. We had this other men by the number Jack. Richardson who was a friend of my father. He would do a lot of the driving because my father worked some time in Jack Richardson take us to the performances. What as my father went to to work? I'm just trying to imagine how all the equipment and there's no such thing as back line and all that stuff so yeah. We had a Volkswagen bus. Volkswagen bus. Load everything in the bus and back then you travel with your own. PA system as well as your amps. And every that's what I'm saying like. How did you guys squeeze we slept on amps? Oh Wow we slept your sat on the answer. We took all the seats out the car. Oh Okay I ah trying to figure out the configuration of how the amps amnesty. Too Man she can see the look on Lila's face van driving way further than you guys. Do this uncomfortable situation in the beginning. We didn't get our first doorbuster like our second album so listen it is Tito you compare. Nineteen a sixty S. No I'm just saying I I never thought about taking out the seat. Okay it makes sense. Hello uncomfortable but pre seatbelts to to kind of middle passage. Juries free seatbelts. Exactly you remember as you were a teenager at this time. Right y'all touring your teenager. Yes I was young teenager Major. Maybe twelve thirteen years. Do you remember what it was like going to different cities in this time of it was exciting. You know our I remember Toma Civil Rights Era to remember that they used to put us in the back of a hotel near the dumpsters. You know we were little kids making a loud noise. They wanted us to waive from the front desk really. So Oh yeah oh no one in the hallways and we did it. So can you finally put the official stamp. On who brought you motown. I understand Medicare it was actually. It was two people. I say it's responsible for bringing us to motown. And that would be gladys okay. Because she tells me the story every time. I'm Mike Are you one of twelve people now. Know Glasses night gladys knight big big instrumental And Bobby Taylor van Coolers Okay and We basically with Diana Ross story with Diana Ross just basically she presented us show the world marketing. Yes she just gone solo at. She's getting ready to do her first solo record at the time to write so that she had did it. Or what getting ready. But they use Diana Ross presents the Jackson Five. Yeah Berry was thinking of marketing Minds you Tommy. Cheung was. Oh yeah how. Many John was a guitar player. Did Bobby Taylor Vancouver's So how long was it to after that Audition at motown or at least the one that we saw that whereas whereas like official not long they got us in the studio perjuring ranch right away in our we were in the studio within a month and But the thing about it. What we you had did? That auditioned We didn't think we will be signed. 'cause Berry was in a corner very stern you didn't show expression and we like doing things two he like us and this and that and we had heard he don't want more children on his label he Kevin hard time with Stevie wonder with the social workers. He can't record. You already had with him in the studio for four hours. I gotTa take him home he get work at school tomorrow. Say What I'm GonNa do with five kids I can't handle one and I guess it was glad it's in Bobby. That convinced them that you have to hear these children. 'cause I always wanted to tape Michael ask. How is that or something like Mike and I never knew what the answer was? Yeah Erasing Bill. Speaking of five kids from the Chicago Land Area. Go Back to pre pre motown a little bit where the five stair steps where you guys like in competition with them we were friends are Steph. Steps is a great group. They're they're young route like this Jackson's were back. Then they had a song out by the name of ood Chow made a lot of noise said that time and they used to travel we would travel right behind them or with them. Or what have you. I was going to say Between the silver's of Tennessee especially because they got at such an early start. Leon told us there from Indiana to when he was born in Indiana in southend where I'm from that I forgot about the. I totally forgot about that. So I mean I'll never forget that course born in Indiana I remember so oh was it when when it's time to do these shows And I forgot even the most and said that They run into you guys often. Oh yeah emotions. He said we used to run into motions and back in the day it wasn't earth wearing far they were called the t box Simmons. It was a bad. The band called teebox and the they would play the same place The Hush APPA Rao and yeah. We came with those guys as well any motions. So you saying that a month after that audition you guys got the news. That you've got accepted motel. Yeah we got that matter of fact that we got that pretty much. I chat audition because he walked over to us. After we had finished our audition and we didn't know where he was going to say he walked over and says I'm GonNa take take your first three records number one. Oh Okay we say what that was unheard of especially about black artists. You know three records number one in the country right you know all the charts. He did four times. Yeah yeah so he did it four times. When do you officially consider like your last day or period in Gary Indiana as in rear view? Muir never turn him back. We're moving moving to well. We moved to California Back in Nineteen sixty-nine and it was funny because our neighbor This young lady by the name of Brenda White. She's always said you Jackson's all you guys and little house making all that no yelling going away. So you know our motivation in Gary Indiana who lived in Beverly Hills. Famed Brinda. My best friend seen just keep watching. You'll see you'll see ever circle back to her. Please tell me I haven't seen her since You guys don't see new for the New Year is upon us which resolutions. Since do you plan to conquer. In Two thousand twenty become more mindful or create a healthier lifestyle through diet exercise and of course improved. Sleep the sleep number. Three sixty smart art bed helps everyone get the proven quality sleep that will change their life. Use The sleep. IQ APP to help create a routine. The sleep number three sixty smart but is the smartest choice for a better sleep and the best fed for couples. It allows you to adjust on each side of your ideal firmness comfort and support it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep keep you sleeping comfortably through the night with sleep. IQ technology inside the bed. It tracks how your sleeping and gives you personalized insights for your best sleep. Discover proven quality. Lettie sleep with sleep number three sixty smart bed. Save one thousand dollars on a queen special edition smart bed during the January sale. Only at a sleep number store or sleepnumber dot COM com slash iheart. That's sleepnumber dot com slash iheart sleep. Number's the official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. My observations is with you guys. Is that your family was really the first to reap the benefits of the. I have a dream mm speech. I consider you guys really the first beneficiaries of kind of the cumulated whatever was being fought for for the civil rights. It's movement you guys were the beginning of veteran and then people you guys may WanNa do great and so on and so forth so but I know Oh that being the I am by being the first really being like the lone black faces and a lot of white white spaces and being I how fish out of water was your experience moving to Los Angeles. I'm assuming that you guys lived in Beverly Hills I. We've lived in Hollywood. I recall Queen's Road and then we moved to Beverly Hills but It was really exciting. You know we've never seen a palm tree or anything like that so just to land in. Lax Airport it was like exciting seeing the lights and the palm trees in the weather so tropical all these things like paradise to us. Nobody wanted to go back to Gary Indiana at that time. Cold winters freezing three or four foot snow to one but was there ever a feeling like at least with my experiences where I know like on the Moon Shark in a odd situation and I mean like an odd situation like everything's like redneck bell south but I just mean like showing of it. It you know a black tie dinners and the only black person here or that sort of thing. We're always motivated anxious and ready to do whatever it took in. What so you guys never felt like no no never had? Those feelings felt uncomfortable. Not really until they put us in the back by the garbage cans. uh-huh oh motown period of touring though. Yeah just Lau. We deserved give it. This is trash. So did you think of that point. The rigorous rehearsals and schedules would slow down somewhat a little bit. They didn't they increase matter of fact. But did you think that it would. I thought we made that means. You don't have to do too much of that type of thing you know but of course you. Hello Quests as musician that you've got to keep it going baby you gotta rehearse it and motown rehearsed us very very very heart art. They went through every little. Move every. Step everything okay sound motown period. What would now that you're in L. A.? What is is your typical itinerary? There we will go to school you guys go to. We went to private school. At first I went to public school to school called Fairfax High Ryan Los Angeles and That only lasted so long. Until after the solvent show and the hit records students chase us away we we we moved to Beverly Hills went to another school by the name of Universal High School and that lasts. I wasn't in that school two months. Then they figured out. We can't go to a public school so the guys were just that too famous to even. Yeah we had a few hit records out and the kids were like recognizing us and they would peak in the class and that whole thing screaming girls running down the hall in that whole thing. How do I feel I mean? Did it feel like like a goldfish or like it was Kinda scary because all the all the dues wanted to you but the sea and that whole thing you know so they figure. These guys can't go to school here. We got to put him in a private school. How close was for your public school experiences? How close was what we we know as Elliot Gang Culture in the public schools by? Did you have to worry about that. Well I remember I remember. My brother was dating this young lady by neighbor they will cap the bottom and Dorsey High School in Gary as well not gary. I'm sorry Los Angeles and the talking about Jackie. Jackie and This other guy from Dorsey really dug his girl and he came over. Brought about four. Or five guys over to Fairfax calling they self GonNa but you know. They didn't know that we're from Gary Indiana seeing talk about ABC girl. I think I love you but we can put some but when we have to 'cause we grew up in a hood how my father always told us to take care of ourselves because what he would do he would invite all the kids in the neighborhood over on Saturdays in have boxing matches. Make US box to kids. That wasn't I was wondering learn. How real that scene was like? Oh Yeah Oh yeah as you. How much should we consider that story? The the Jackson the story that Amir's referring to the American dream. How much allows a lot of this true? You know my father was rough. But he was an Asraf as they portray him they traumatize Daddy. Yeah Anyway so yeah I was going to say how often was the. That's the thing I never never had because you know because the age gap between me and my siblings or your last name is love so the yeah now I never. I never had that like you get my brother muscle. That's that's the one thing you never. You would never mess with. Yeah you would never mess with the youngest person any black because they always say I'm GONNA give my cousin fuck you pressure on Tito. Because he wanted to. I always thought you were the oldest anymore. I'm not I'm not. I'm third in line. Yeah I'm like two and a half years younger than Jackie but Jemaine always start face. This school care. He and we started. He was started in the defied. His battle Olym- run home and say mother not finding socially. How do you guys pair off as as far as peers like who is your? I'd never all of your close Yada Yada Yada whatever own but like you road. Oh Dr who who are who the road Dr Groups in the Jackson family or Jemaine and I hunger hung out together Marlin and Michael Kors hunger together are in Jackie. Just mingle damn with all. He was like big brother telling us what to do time to rehearse. Now you can't do that we gotta rehearse you know so he's the Alpha for BA. Yeah he was rather figured he was older than everyone responsible is okay. Let's see. who was the SNITCH family? Little the Tattletale Germaine. Okay tell everything he tells much. Tell yourself don't how it works the fan. You're you're right about that. You're right about that. There's Harry from motown wants pleading me tape of There's there's an EP K.. or not but kind of an audio EP K. of wrapping with Jackson Five. Whatever where you guys are just talking for half hour about your hobbies and all that stuff but Jemaine all of his all of his portions were about like kind? I provoke in the brothers. Like Michael Time when you got in trouble for data and Tito remember that time you got in trouble. I was like Oh like why is he in what. I'm also very curious about you and your brother. Jimmy's craft after as As guitarist and bass players now. I know that motown had a strict system. Which of course you long to get away from theus once? You went to epic but I will say that based on the evidence of a lot of live tapes that I've heard of the concerts and especially with going to Indiana the special the bacteria going back to you Indiana that yeah you to word the top of your game as far as like covering like really in in fine form what the funk brothers were doing on record and all those things. Yeah because Back ECHINACEA Jackson Fiber early days of doing concert tours. The are banned. Contentious consists of myself in Germain. Ronnie rancher firm Oregon Johnny China Jackson on drums and that was the band. So how often were you. Who's the MD of that particular of just Bam rehearsals missiles? Actually I was. I was pretty much. How were the early shows crafted? Not The adult period of the Jackson's but like the the early shows Utah prior to motown not prior to motel. Once you guys were doing motown because one one thing that I think that our audience doesn't I understand like when you're on your first two records. Sometimes you have to do cover songs. We did cover the day so we did a lot of the album album album songs. We have a lot of those songs were covers as well so Basically that's what we did we cover temptations or whether it was a Four top so whoever we did a lot of cover stint who were you while. I'm curious about your record collection like by the by the time that you moved ellum certain it. Oh Yeah you sorta accumulatively brothers and Miracles Corsa all the motown temps and and all that kind of stuff. OJ's we lose you. Go to like your favorite. who were your Jackson? Who is your Jackson's go to group was the temptations really far yes temptations we love to ESL? Why okay so were you guys at all thrown up towards being able to see real time where you kinda thrown off by the Norman Whitfield period of of that group like to go from what they were the smooth presentation of what assumed that is the blueprint of what you guys were to suddenly? Certainly there hippie. Let's keep up with sly stone period. Yeah think we'll seventeen minute intros and yeah we basically just trying to follow style you know The flight slide family stone is very musical. You know their little different type of setup than temptation patients type A group. They're more musical so we enjoyed that you know like songs like thank you in on this stuff you know. SLI- was demand you know. We Love Billy Preston as well our were you able to go to conserve. How often would you see other shows? That weren't your time off. Were not that off unless you on the show or we're running across some somewhere somehow. Yeah was there any act that not even feeling like They might be a threat. But like that's the level we need to get to like stair steps five stair steps was one of those groups that we used to look at and say that's what we ask to be like you know or that. was that rival. You know how you have reliable group or whatever. Oh Yeah what was it. Because I've only seen like maybe one or two performances of there's like like what was it about their presentation that well. I think we love the way they dress the way they cared theirself and they were professionals. You know we were trying to get to that stage in our game you know. So they had it already they would come over to the Just tear it up. The young ladies were screaming screaming and hollering chase them offstage. And that's what we how. How frightening was the Apollo experience? Even though I mean I'm talking about pass Azure our once you guys were even established like is this still feeler fear of like we still better rocket or else. Yeah yeah we never really Concentrated Trade on Like trying to go past what we've thought we could have been. We just did what we can do. Did did our best at what we could do. And that usually turned out to be pretty cool. So that's where that was I know that in the ball to motown Oh town. There are hundreds like to pack level Prince Level of volume of finished recorded songs songs that are fully mixed in everything And not you know the final nine or ten songs that make it particularly Jackson album like a think at last count I saw at least somewhat right like two hundred plus songs so what. What is the process of how songs were divided or like? How did you guys make decisions? We make that those types of decisions. You just told you we would come home from school right right in the studio everyday. If we didn't have a concert or on the road we'll go straight to the studio studio and do our homework in Studio get home about ten o'clock at night and that was it. We used to do a song a day. You know background vocals and if we had any clean up on the weekends wins so I'm an whose decision was it to like. Was it everything like okay. So here's some ten songs. And what do you guys. What do you guys dig? And well. I nothing motel pretty much picked the songs that we recorded ended up with Pal Davis in the corporation Freddie parented and all those guys you know they already had it laid out for us. They had done the keys. And all those type of things and they cut the tracks and have us to come in later to the Boko co-funding so the various producers James Carmichael. How David The MOZELLE brothers for second year. Dick Richards fries mysel- sale. Who did you who you are the brothers particularly favor as a producer? Well we we loved working from with Hal Davis because he was funny he you know He. We would joke a lot since and he was so serious about it and we're little kids just is plan on the Mike and not serious and he pushed record waiting here. We just start laughing and come on guys come on you you know. He was really really defied. But we also enjoyed the corporation which was d.c riches fund the sale and Freddy Parent and Berry Gordy. They called himself the corporation and there were a lot of fun. They were a lot of fun as well. They were young men just finishing. Shing College with a musical scholarships and they great writers. So how long were you guys giving particular song to learn and absorb learned it on. Oh spot learning in the studio okay. So like All right so home along and dense which sounds like twelve twelve minutes and all of you have designated parts so they take one by one or is it just let certain parts were taken one by one some pros taking as a a group in the like. I say we learned that Song Right on the spot. You know. We're going to the studio and in the Control Room. Sit with the producer and and he'll go through with this line. This is your life. Remain this year lime Michael Shoreline brothers and that whole thing so we can you answer question for me. I always wanted to know this. Okay be honest when the when you guys were recording rhythm child was there feeling the air like okay. There's going to be a bigger. There's going to be bigger than dance machine because basically it's the same Narrative Ama- same DNA DNA as dancing machine. So in my mind I felt like you guys really felt like she's a rhythm it's going to be like the new dancing machine in nineteen seventy four. That's the machine is only song you know. That song is so magical. I I love the song and I didn't think that so. I was just doing what they told us to do. Okay I've always wanted to know who brought in. I'll bet you for ABC album baby. I betcha I can't remember that. Think that may have been I can't remember. I'm sorry. I think very was hands on at least for the ABC record. As far as is navigating it very very would let the producers work with us and they would send a copy of the track or whatever we did that they to the him he was studying and give them corner notes and they try guys need your Clinton at all or was it just like here random fungus delic song for you guys do. We didn't know a George Clinton route. I'll bet you actually. It's a funk Adele Song to thank you you knew what I was thinking. Did you all right right so you I mean you were prominent contrary to Opinion all the brothers had parts on records. Include Marlin I. I didn't realize until maybe like maybe ten years ago that that's him riffing on Mama got brand new things don't say no in my mind always always Germain Griffin. And then and I'd I'd I realized that once I listened closer but Was it was the your desire being. So you're the only well minus MARLIN ORLEANS. You're the only one that didn't do any solo projects. Yeah I'm Well you know they give me those parts that nobody wanted. You know the low part heart. I've always had the voice in the family and so like I say Chitlins the temptations was. I realized group that we you know him frank exactly so. They looked at me like Melvin Franklin. And that's why were you stay now you low voice so I never got that opportunity to sing now but I only sing low parts. I would also also double on of the notes in background. Then they put me in and do a little base bottom part or whatever sometime I'll just make up apart too so I can be on record too okay. Okay so you get to do that because I was sitting here wondering like when did you guys get to touch the records because you said for the longest time. y'All just go in. You know your parts at at what point were you able to have a voice in saying what are we did do. How were you feeling watching? You're label mates Marvin Marvin Gaye and Stevie wonder especially go through such a creative kind of of blossoming. You know that you guys weren't able to have like how did how did you feel in observing like when you get your a copy of inner visions and fulfilling this first finale. It's like this is what we want to do. Well you know we always always idolized people like Stevie you know and wanted to do stuff like him and we actually asked to be produced by him. We did BUTTERCUP Cup. Yeah exactly we did buttercup in and you're supposed to keep you loving me I didn't realize that was. There's there's an original it's on. Let's get serious. Oh I didn't know buttercup was released. Yeah finally made the. Yeah once I have a follow up question regarding when they win Windham motown was putting that out. Actually got invited over to their offices to Here a lot of the tracks that they were going through and one of the tracks that they played us Was I see. I think the title was something like Tito Steam. It was introduced to us as a team solo track seeing that real but it never heard it. You actually got to hear it okay. I got to here. I can't remember what it sounds like but I do remember hearing it. So what what do you remember about that. I don't remember anything. Yeah maybe intended for. Maybe that was the last song That I recorded before we left. So you going to make my question in what way I wanNA getting there because the bridge now my personal favorite period of Jackson's is probably the period that all of you kind of like surrogate forget which is seventy four vegas variety show period predestined. So let's say like Survey to go and places. What were you personally feeling at that time? As far as where the brothers brothers are concerned. I mean your brother Michael Express that he felt like we were old hat and he didn't enjoy doing the variety show and all those long Alex and I'm pretty sure you heard it to be because we in the business you have what we call haters in the people used after we we had our first four number ones and then we started having songs that didn't make it to number one and people used to come up and say you guys are finished. You know the you're not gonna you guys. Oh yeah then. I gave us motivation. Of course right and We always wanted to write music in Produce our own stuff and that was a reason for moving onto Columbia records at that time epic because they gave us that opportunity To have a song or two on albums like the Jacksons that was produced by Kenny Gamble. Only on huff. You know they. They worked with us. What songs we had you know? They input their involvement and made it happen so that was a very exciting moment for the brothers to know that they were capable of writing songs. That people will love and like him by. So so you yourself. You didn't enjoy doing the variety show for it. Didn't bother me at all. You know I do. I was one of the members that whatever it is. I'm GonNa be there whether whether we're playing in a closet or planning arena. I'm going to be there. So is that because you just loved it so much while I just wanted to be a team player. Yeah and also like I think it would be like today if someone got a reality show we get a reality show some certain for you guys. It was like okay. Wait Osmond's have a variety show and shielding your knell has authorioty show and it was a point where last night in the pips head of variety show so brady bunch variety. Show exactly no. I know you drive funny but no. That's what I was was it. nope as trump the speaking varieties or not the right. But the the Vegas what was it like you know the Vegas residency started like two months after you guys got back from Senegal so what was what was it like the you know the difference. Why are you guys? Get your history. That's true that's true. I mean we're more about me the following time God everything you know It's been a long road but we Was that the first time you guys been to Africa Africa or yes he was. We went to send okay all about what was it like. It was very exciting. Getting off the plane. And that's where Michael get that Mama say Amo okay. That's what they were chanting to us. What we I went to Africa singing plan the drums? Mama say Mama Zahava Marcus Excel Mama say wow you know. I don't know okay take out the garbage. They also are there any memories whatsoever about. Because there's the infamous photo voted with guys hanging with the marlies in Jamaica. Is there any memories of of that period. You guys know that Bob Marley was royalty was just Guy With here wants to hang with. Well Gosh well. We had to show in Jamaica with the whalers Bob Marley was there as courts in the next day he invited us over to hang out and We go to Bob Marley's compound and guys hanging out in the trees freeze. It was really exciting. He took us through the whole compound. Show way he worked wrote this song where where he recorded. And what have you and I just remember that very very much. He was a great period and back then. Bob Marley was popular. But but he's not he wasn't as possible figure today. Oh He's everywhere now because you're hanging out with the marlies but from what we know you guys are. Were very religious family. And of course the legend of your father being strict. How did you navigate? or how did did he ever say any given disclaimers before. y'All did this or that or with them but he did. y'All say you better not do this you know. Oh yeah well we knew we grew up. Eddie we knew we knew what not to so so do. I guess that you did Jackson's never got a taste of the Bob Marley Ganga. No we just ask that they smoke. Yeah well that was the second question I wanted to see. If the Bob Marley and then judges never got a taste of no stars. We I wouldn't mind on me right now bag before before. I jump to Sony before epic by this point year. The Jackson five in quote. And I know that you were the first to get married and have kids and whatnot. So I'm assuming that you were domesticated but it just meant but the thing is is that here the Jackson five day so there's a lot being thrown at you. What was what was? How is it hanging in Hollywood? Like I know you have a massive car or had it seemed like foes ut K. Card in and everything like I anti Z.. Cars where you think yes first of all how many I ask him questions. That's the one that how many mansions how many cars do you talk about your the original Jay Leno like what was it about the anti cars and because anytime I've seen photos of you it's like you're in a garage with an anti car so like I always love com- mechanics you know. Even when I was a young kid. You know mom bicycle out the junkyard and and didn't do the gold card and then got into cars. I I love especially the older stuff like in twenty and that so doc. It's always been a love of mine and the how easy was it to get access to that back then. I'm just saying now like if I buy a pair of Jordan's like my business managers like a man and I'm Kinda cool now but still it's like a man but how many cars were you you for Jordan's just for sneakers but how many cars do collect back then I had about maybe a dozen. You store them. I have a warehouse to put him in right right now I have about twenty cars. Can I have a car. uh-huh and how many do you let your kid draw your own drive money they do. They don't have those cars they don't they can buy them. He got some rare stuff but is it the like. Are they cars just to collecting things. I collect that I would never utilize Jordan's I would never wear because they will explode the thing you gotta know. Jordan's will explode. After thirty years. I get out the hard way so I get a pleasure out a car. I'll find a car. Seven hundred dollars out. Redo it take every nut in boat out of it. Heavy powder blasted uh-huh original Jay Leno and this is you. Are you one of those people that can car kids all the carbon. My has probably got Greece recenter fingernails now from the from some car. I've worked at so even to this day. Like working on anti-car is your your hobby. Yeah not been building lately. We have been building a lot of the surfer type. Sixty Volkswagen buses. Yeah Yeah I love those things. Yeah I got about nine you super now. That's GONNA put the seats in the suspect. Yeah I'm just saying you know January twentieth my birthday. Say He'll get another way yet. So okay I'll think of something okay so go into Philadelphia By the way My elementary school was next to philly international broad street so once once in a blue moon in second or third grade. I'd see guys like flow going in going out gotta be freaky as a kid Jackson's going was seen seen actually. Actually what's weird is that you guys would even visit to say. Hi even after the fact like a think once before a destiny concert you guys stop by three thirteen broad street and only knew because like every human being in my school was out in the streets chasing guys. That's how we know. The JACKSONS are in proximity many But in kind of the slow process that eventually led to the destiny album leaving being PHILADELPHIA First of all how. How long were you guys physically Were you only there for like studio time or did you like live there now. We are only there for studio time and we get called in and we'd do an album in two weeks and do everything and move on so sleep sleep there for two weeks. So how long did it take for you guys to convince Ron Weisner as an in in just a man. Yeah Freddie demand in Walter yet and the cough to like okay we gotta do this on our own. Like how long did it well we. We went to epic records saying that we want to write some music in produce our some of our songs and what had happened. We had a couple of songs on earlier albums the coin place album and the Jackson's album and they did very well and They gave it was the green light to do our next album and which was destiny and we wrote all the songs and so when you guys were doing the process. What was the division of Labor for that album because now you guys have to answer to yourself? Did you have a family meeting and well I think I think we already had some songs Maybe Jackie had a song to I know I had a couple of songs and Michael has some stuff. We get together and write lyrics lyrics and help each other out on the song and Right about situations whether it was my mother and her politeness or whatever and that's pretty much how it came out all right without getting personal pan pizza okay. I often felt I always wanted to. Yeah no what did you guys feel about the lyrics of destiny. Because I personally felt that was kind of Michael's passive aggressive way of saying guys. I WANNA do stuff on my own and I don't know how to tell you guys 'cause to to look at the lyrical content. I've felt that that was his of all of all the I want to break free themes that he's ever had in his career that that was the most explicit direct kind of underhanded. I mean destiny. Goes there things I do for you. Goes they're pushed me way. Goes there even though is disguised as a love song. But it's Besley that's what you get what you give being polite. which I'm it was ever a moment where you guys were just chilling day like? Listen wait a minute like was it but you said that was about your mom's Yes yes thanks and and things I do for you yes yes yes we hit that. Go read those. I mean as much as you can uber. You out with talking okay. Since you Kinda open rabbit hole since you kind of opened that revenue and we're black. Can I assume that since you don't know any successful black person that doesn't go through survivor's guilt awesome. Do you understand what survivor's guilt is as far as if someone's successful then there's kind of be unspoken obligatory Tori need to take people with you and I know that there's friends and family and cousin Ray Ray and the cat you went to school with and let me hold of something and our phone bills. Cutting off froze getting cut off next week for Like how are you able to Matrix Dodge or avoid. You'll let me wholesome real quick like like. Oh man can can you help like am. I assuming that if the songs are factual in terms of people Using and that sort of thing how are you able to avoid. Or how easy are you with saying the word. No you know how is he. How easy in nineteen seventy eight? How easy is it to say? The word no like again like a though. We're down on luck that it is has school tuition next week. Yo can you help out yet at all like I just. I know no successful black person that manages to avoid. And you're the Jackson's which in everyone's minding America's like family royalty so. How hard is it to avoid hanger owns or people that ask ask ask ask ask take take take bets still happens today? You know You that's comes with the territory as you know you WanNa meet people that's Hanging with just to meet the another brother. I don't mean strangers though that you know distant cousins large clue yet you. I've been doing this for fifty years. In Jackson. People are still they'll ask you meet new people still ask but you can. I have a car. Yeah I'm turning. You know I try to avoid Gotcha journalism or whatever but I know that it has to be awkward being a a powerful family that you know you guys have a hard time just managing and navigating your own thing without the role of his like so. Is it that you change your phone number lot. We did that too. or You. Just want tour now. I want you know we have cell phones Beckmann. So you're lucky but We had a lot of protection from security in those type of things people who look after especially the people motown you know even when we go on the road or whatever and if the others other motown the people around they would be like parents you know they will give us advice. Don't touch drugs do this though that so we were school by the Motown's Oh talented staff in the in the arts. Is it easy to still go to family reunions or your high school or hang with friends like are. Are you still friends with people. You're friends with four years ago with friends that I have from Gary Indiana. Oh Yeah. That's it lessened. That's a miracle Tito is everybody friends with people from because I feel like we expect this from Tito for some reason. You feel like you still. I don't know nobody's buddies. Lost a lot of people in my life bunch of people. I just love sworn in my high school friends weeks getting hi everyone I'm Brooke Burke I'm making King admits and I'm sex and intimacy coach Leila Deville and we have a podcast called intimate knowledge. That's what this show is about. `Bout Sadak sucks but it's so much more than that. It's about the ups and downs near patients ship. Your sex life is about overcoming hop rake and infidelity. It's about understanding intimacy. And what makes you happy. And it's about everything he wanted to know. But you might be too embarrassed to ask. We're giving you you. Intimate knowledge. Listen to intimate knowledge on iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Find us in another Fo- element of your development as an entertainer is the live show presentation. Be Jackson's live show presentation tation. So in your in your mind with theatrics now entering during the the real earth wind fire their theatrics levitating. It is brothers and smoke machines in parliament. Fungal cadel here were you. Seeing shows then wasn't like Yo. You gotta see probable was a period when like this this and you know Earth wind and fire's the always had the great show some type of magic illusions whatever and We felt pathways GOI more similar to keep pick the concerts exciting to make people WANNA come see. And that's what it was like back. Then you know replant arenas or twenty thousand people you know how you get all these people in this arena and you had to have a show that offer more what than just amusing to be. I can't be as well. So so. What does that initial pitch late like? Okay we're we're all going to get in this box and it's GonNa be like pitch dark and there's GonNa explode they were gonNA come out with new outfits like you have people in the business that have these creative the ideas that come up with props and things of that nature. Whatever you can imagine they'll try to make it happen but this was new at the time so I'm in now? It's nothing to do for you to say all right Kanye West Eleven. Teach you on stage throughout the stadium. Put back then you guys would definitely like I thought my cousins were lying. There like boxing exploded like people leave it and so I aw owns accents show. I was like oh they really exploding so even at even the initial days of of of those stories stories like there wasn't a fear like way man like this too much like what the explosions and all that stuff no no. He was exciting. You you know the only thing that was detrimental was the commercial we did the Pepsi Commercial. Have you seen met final tate. I finally solitude so came online like two years ago. I didn't really have you seen crazy in twenty in two thousand nineteen or twenty twenty whenever they listen to. It's people are there's a whole generation do not know what you're talking about. Okay so there is a Pepsi commercial shot in which said explosions that speaking of Sparks Michael's hair and then was it. You put your jacket on top of his head no he. He called out my name I was was on the other side of the stage. He called out my name for help but that was too far away. I think it was one of the men who thought that quickly and like two or three years ago they finally put the actual with his hair on fire. I didn't realize it was that serious like it. It was John. Thira seven seven seven seven seconds of that and it would have been a whole new store. You like what was yeah. Well of course. Obviously what was the feeling of bet like it hurts us very much you know. We knew he was hurting and he was had the serious burns to Scout. And that whole thing and from that point I felt that was beginning of a lot of problems for him. Yeah he needed. He stayed in pain long time and just never told us or yeah but you guys knew he was yeah you tear up circling back on. That's what you get this lyrics. I'm sorry y'all out I just want Momma Catherine. What does she have bigger thing? What does she want? I know she had a lot in Chad nine children but was there more. Does she had wanted in her life. Like what did you think she was key. It feels like you're missing out on or can you know where you know. I may have twisted that that song things I do for you as my mom. Okay that's what you get like. Johnny Jackson thank God. Does Johnny Jack the Drug German. Yeah Oh wow oh okay. That's better thank you. Okay Oh man. What are you Japanese gyms and then the home and figure this moving skew out as crazy so with with the victory tour leading up to it and how mammoth it was? What were I mean you know again? One person's have been could be another person's hell put to to be on the inside of what was then the biggest grand tour of all time. Like what are your memories of the victory tour was was it sorta like Habes or was it like it's getting to be too much or no. It was never too much because uh being a black ban and probably the first black band to do those types of venues it was a pleasure to to represent and Do those we go into a city like New York or wherever we do a three shows at the stadium and Saleh mountain that was never heard of for black bands to do that. You know so we felt we were you know making a name for itself it creating history make landmark thought to say I gotta ask about we can change the world yes very Very sorry okay. Speaking of Bob Marley always felt that that was your rag world music. I love reggae right even on my Tito Times I have Raggi saw that I just said Oh yeah so yeah I was going to say. Was that your inspiration is sort of like a world music. Yes yes yes. The song's about changing the world. You got a lot of different styles in you. Because I was listening to one song and I was like you got the country in you do countries to to you know we started out singing. A Elsa cottonfields. Yeah exactly when I heard that was like what do they know about that but yeah my music is blues. I Love Blues. Who Do you consider like Kat e- especially to be around in Chicago this times? Were you able to see these legends. no no no no really no uh you guys never played Blues Clubs and we've places caused but ready Albert in now. Never saw advocating or any of those guys play I would hear him on record Albert King Jammy read. Bb King such. Who's your favorite Blues Guitar Player as far as tone in bb King and Albert Collins? Really love him. Yeah Wow okay okay. I have an article here from a right. On magazine October Nineteen seventy-one you also mentioned Jimi Hendrix was one of your favorites Jimmy Really. Were you thoughts on Ernie Eisley and as far as the direction of the is least took. Well he's he's Dope Ernie Stoke on Guitar. Yeah I I love his tongue. Okay so I know that. The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. And that your son's we'd be remiss it's not to mention your sons also have a successful seen career as well Were you a little skeptical knowing what you know. What the businesses we skeptical in sort of Encouraging meme to well like you said knowing the show business ups and downs of the business. I want they were very athletes. They played a lot of baseball about my Middle side was right number five in the state for baseball pitching and he was buried. Bond was very looking at him and wanted to go to the giants training camp and trained with them and at the time he was out recording his first album brothers. His brothers and They they they hung up the gloves. Water Brazil's pursue songs really. And I felt I tell them I say hey you can do in. Both you know when the baseball season happen give under the microphone. You can do both things was this. TJ Or Terrell terrel at Tehran's TJ was justice assists as as brilliant as an athlete as. Well Wow Okay so they wanted to pursue. They wanted well they. They didn't an exercise that they wanted to be entertainers because of me. And the articles of course how hard is it to keep them. Grounded didn't humble when their family are superheroes. They're pretty easy you know. When did they realize like Oh shit like okay? This is a normal. That's a good question. I don't I don't have to answer for you. But they always loved the business and wanted wanted to be a part of it. You know like They had gone to a Jackson. Concert was super young and they look at the outfits picking off the rhyme song it from home and Grab Bronze Matz and put on the record Jackson and I take a record. We're trying to be like us. Guitar told him. If you're GONNA do this you're GonNa do this. We're not speaking it and all that we really planned the instruments and really singing. I say if you really wanted to do who it. I'll let you use my instruments. You can go into studio mess around get familiar with things and they did then they showed interest. I got him some lessons. Take learned a few things here and there and that start putting them under the microphone in Studio. Are there any second-generation Jackson's that are just like doctor. Doctor Lawyer Yeah. We have. Accountants Martin. Kids are accountants and lawyers and stuff like that he the one. That's kids in show business even more important. Yeah like have some behind the camera to. Yeah I see that okay so for your what. Why did it take you so long to finally like really developed well? I don't think it took that long because long after the. The group had left epic I've seen a few times like You've had your Blues Revue Careerist Clubs. I've seen it a few times so during that period late nineties mid nineties. Whatever like what made did you decide to like sort of scratch that blues it that you had? Whether it's still there you know it never goes away as part of me you know but it Most of my fans aren't blues so I figured if I'm going to so they still come into the show like for you sell the funk and that's ABS- absolutely and I just figured I'd need to do something to satisfy their ears. You know so. I decided my first album. It's GonNa be for them. You know I just Pretty much finished the blues album that I'm not ready to release because I'm GonNa do take time to maybe third out be plus record just did a recording with George Benson and We do you. We re we redid rock me baby. Oh George mccrae's sorry. Oh wait baby all night. Long the exact. Oh sure episode where there's a bunch rot me baby. Yeah okay so And we have a BB stored on record as well. Yes does she play or is she she. She's a singer. She sounds fabulous to. Do you ever just go out and surprise. People go to like a jam session. I mean just. I haven't done that too much in my life. I've done on it before but not too much. Tito's jam session. We welcome that if through do some jams desk exactly the point where you were. You surprised at the reception of Tito. Tom and not surprised at the positive response. But you know I mean it's always a risk out there to. I've always been very quiet like I said and Never spoke out Nev- never never let my pants down. Whatever you however you WANNA put it to? You always hear things. I got here when I let my pass down to really how but verb but anyhow I oh I think the fans accepted it very well so I thank them for that. How often how do you guys divide your time now? with touring and during festivals. All over the world and downtime where people don't understand is that people always say to me you know. Uh this last time you seen your brother. I'll say well spent about two weeks three weeks two weeks three weeks. I'm say yeah people asking like when you're alone like where's the you know. What is it like you they want you to everything you know? You've been with them. All y'all yeah live in to see in my brothers. You know my sam every day for a month on the road you know when I'm not on the road I wanna get away and enjoy. Enjoy my life a little bit personally. Why see how the schedule is now? you guys. Are you know when it's festival time for Europe and all this there's other countries I mean. You guys are pretty much together so I saw you guys. When you first started touring Was Two two thousand ten thousand eleven and compared to what it is now some eight nine years later he guys like a full fledged operating machine. How do you how do you guys did by the time because I know that? I know that that could be tiresome. I'm one of those people. I don't WanNa see the schedule you know. I don't want to know what to do. I'm just GonNa do it do it. Yeah Yeah and that way see much easier. I need to know how you prepare because I was I told the guys. I was randomly on Jackson's tour in London about three years ago. And you guys still move your body's like fifty years ago and they're they're like how y'all do like twelve songs at leased. How do you prepare physically for something like that? This called not taking drugs and drinking and renew sleep in your rest Marlin Marlin still. Oh my God yeah seriously not a stressed out of one. I'm not not yoga. Atta not a Vegan. Not a not a Kito. Nothing just a mauling the heat on any red meat but he's healthy. You know we have a just do it. That's all we did. Just do it in a stretch of our warm up or Marla stretches. Of course they stretch I. I don't do anything I look at them. And when did you fall in love with the Derby. Been Wearing this thing for twenty five years. Here's maybe yeah back. They will kiss rolling around the UK. I win the lottery and I discovered bowlers. That's what am I was. I wrong. According to the Derby Derby so you traveling with them in the early stages of three t yes teenagers then yes they were okay so so I guess you think fifteen sixteen in something like a baton at age group. Okay can teenagers I see so what what is your well. Besides the teatime which you're contemplating what's your what is your future. What do you well? My future is to continue during my solo thing and enjoy it of course worked with brothers. I like Dua Blues Album and do that whole thing and the best basically. I'm looking for just doing my music. I'm a musician singer so I WANNA have complete success in that area. I think you'll have success in that area. I mean you're Jackson for God's sakes. You're jacking any other van request. Steve Oh boy oh no no okay. Now he's going to give me the car. I'm sure request again. What what's what's the Car You've had the longest of your car. I have a nineteen thirty Cabriolet Model a four that I adore her. Favorite favorite is not my favorite. When I had the longest? I've had that which one's your favorite that you have. I have a nineteen forty eight Lincoln convertible vertebral that I adore cages. Made me feel normal. Do you have a regular like Corolla just to go to corner store to get toilet paper. I was a Gilson. That's the ritzy grocery store. If he goes I live in La. Now so I just saw okay. I The U. T.. No I feel you know what is your car. What's your what's your store car? you run around and do errands guard or stunt. Every time I know I actually I colon incognito I have a few cars like I drive a a Fiat five hundred. Wow drive a nineteen ninety-seven dodge ram pickup truck. Thats download under eight. Hundred car is still consider that stunning. We see like I have a sign on or something like he does. Okay Quest Keeps Tito. He thinks I on key Ondeck just in case or what. My one fan say sent me down commercial. uh-huh before I let you go. Can you just tell one random is there. Is there just a random Favorites Jackson Story. There's a few that you can tell well when we were young back in the day and everybody know what Jamaicans like better. Just give me a Jimmy Jimmy Stewart. Yeah we used to have after the show you know the girls crazy on stage chase us off stage and come to the hotel we have five six hundred girls run into the hotel's trump got to get up the stairs up the elevators put security stairwells and at the elevators. There's an everywhere jemaine got somebody through. He told back in the day the older sisters. But anyhow Jemaine that Jemaine Michael shared rooms and he told my because I because he studies a little. He don't do this when he sing. Boone talks he stutters. I my my God I got a girl zero coming over so when she come here I want you to high so so guess the girl knocks on the door. Okay Michael Hi. Hi Mike Highs under the bed right so the young lady walks in the room and Jamaicans joined her in the all of a sudden she goes. Wait a minute I feel a third hand. Thank you very much. Welcome gentleman on behalf of course live the supreme boss Bill Sixty years. I'm B- Bill. Thank you very much Jackson. Thank you question. Why did you never get to curl? Never never get to curl curl bear O on me. I don't that ladies and Gentlemen Supreme. We will see you on the next. Go Round For more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to your favorite shows available now from Iheart a new series presented by t mobile for business the restless ones join me? Jonathan Strickland as I explore Laura coming technological revolution the restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there is a better way to get things done and they are ready. The curious excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in each episode will learn more from the restless ones themselves and dive deep into how the five G. 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