Shame, Shame, Shame
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Plus, you'll get free shipping on your first order that's ever lane dot com slash hysteria, ever dot com slash hysteria. Hello and welcome to hysteria. I'm Aaron Ryan this week Michaela Watkins, grace par and Meghan gaily. Join me in studio to talk about shame. Shame. Shame who feels it who doesn't and who could use more of it Elissa master, Monaco, also joins to discuss why we shouldn't totally ignore opportunistic conservative shouting heads even though we would really like to and as always our hills. Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in. If you have hills to die on that. You'd like to send us you can record a thirty second voice memo on your phone and send it as an E mail to hysteria at crooked dot com. You can also get in touch with us for other reasons that way, but just to let you know, I'm not the only one who checks that Email address so send love notes and hate mail elsewhere or just don't some them at all. Also, if you like what you're hearing, please rate us in review on itunes. It helps people find us, and it helps people know how much you enjoy the show. Hello. Hello, darling. Love our you. Are we doing British accents today because I can't do them? I just felt like I mean, I respect that. But I just wanted to warn you that my British accent is embarrassing. This week has been a real bummer and yesterday, I started I sort of back at like an office job. And so I didn't have to watch the spectacle as an unfolded yesterday. But elicited did you watch Candice inside? You did. Okay. Did. Well, you know, I was thinking yesterday. I saw people talking about her her testimony on Capitol Hill on Twitter and social media, and I just sort of checked out of it because I just couldn't do it yesterday. But I just I felt very stealth for a time when Candice Owens would just was just going to be somebody. I didn't have to learn about until she was selling trinkets on QVC like until we're on the other side of her career. But now, I feel like no I feel like now that she's on Capitol Hill. She somebody who's who's place in the in the pantheon of. We have to break down a little bit. So first of all do you want to explain to our listeners if they don't know who can disowns is. Candice. Oh ns. What is her deal? We'll she's a bad person. He's a bad person. She's a right wing conservative commentator. And I think she's the director of communications for turning point USA wins in the conservative advocacy group. Led by Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk, I'm concerned about the size of that man's head. But whatever Ben she's done like a lot of you know, she got famous people probably I heard her her name bandied about when Kanye west tweeted that he loves how Candice Owen stinks about a year ago this month, actually, and she's also someone that people might remember is being a real allowed critic of the black lives matter movement saying that it was a bunch of whiny toddlers pretending to be oppressed for attention. So I think that in a nutshell is Candice Owens and most recently. Was cited in the manifesto of the gunman who committed the mass shootings in Christ's church. New Zealand where he said that she was the person who influenced him above all great. So it's a good thing. We have her on Capitol Hill testifying. Thank God yesterday. She was testifying before a panel. And she was talking I believe about it was a panel about it was about hate crimes and violence against targeted groups and people both parties get to select who is on the panel in Republicans picked her which I think gives them a pretty good example of where they're at nowadays, they're having Candice Owens sitting on a panel. That's talking about issues that are, you know, actually real. But she she came on. She was on the panel. The the big moment from yesterday was when my congressman Ted lieu of California played back to Candace Owen. Nhs audio of her kind of defending Hitler a little bit. And her face kind of twisting into I guess, her face did some gymnastics the whole thing was all political theater. It was it was upsetting. It was demoralizing. But I wanted to make our conversation about her bigger than just yesterday. And let's not give her let's not give her any PR. I mean, she doesn't really need it. The thing is like all of the usual. Like all the usual suspects were tweeting about how she just totally like owned the libs yesterday. Like Donald Trump junior tweeted about her Jack probiotic. I'm not gonna learn how to pronounce his last name Jack probiotic was like, oh, she's totally bad ass. Whatever. It's like I think that no matter what she does. She could have she could have been on a congressional panel and thrown up and then fallen over into the vomit and everyone on the right would have been like fuck. Yeah. She showed him, you know. So I've basically how they talk about Donald Trump. Yeah. Exactly. It's like, you know. We were sitting down to to play a game of checkers, and she came up to the game of checkers with a hammer and just like smashed all the checkers people be like she won. She won the game. And it's like, no, she wasn't even that's not what happened. But I wanted to talk about her specifically as an example of a specific type of opportunist that exists in the media ecosystem right now because Candace Owens wasn't always a conservative when she in two thousand fifteen she was a co founder of a website called degree one eighty which is a marketing agency that was for consultation services, basically. And there was a blog that went with that website. And it posted a lot of anti-trump content in the blog. There was some jokes about Donald Trump's penis size. Not flattering jokes about his penis side. Owens also said that tea party Republicans were quote, unquote, bat shit, crazy. She also said the good news is they will eventually die off peacefully in their sleep. We hope and then we can get on with the obvious social change. Needs to happen immediately. This is Candace Owens's words from twenty fifteen. So it seems a little odd to me that she suddenly the poster child of a specific type of conservativism. It seems to me that she was maybe being a bit of an opportunist. And I wanted to talk about where that fits it. Like have you always been in politics for long enough that I'm sure you've seen different generations of opportunists? Does this one seem better or worse than what's come before? It's terrible. I mean, look, you're the thing there's opportunism look like like, I guess like lobbyists build their careers on opera Tunas them. You know, like politicians see like a gap in society. Tell you how they can fill that gap. That's also opportunism. There is a difference between that and what I think has come before us and people becoming hateful as like their opportunity right for the lake or the likes further. It's like it's like you wanna go viral. So you say you like even if you look at someone like God help us like Roseanne Barr who's always been a bit bat shit. But then his gotten like a lot more batch it. That's almost more tolerable because at least she was always kind of bat shit. Right. This is like a woman who sees like fame out of becoming a of a racist. Yeah. The big it, really. Just a hey, I hate below. We're the real racist listened to Candice Owens, Democrats are the real raises. She ended Nash desouza have teamed up to find the real raises. And it's us. I just think you have you ever thought about this? Eliza I've I've thought multiple times like what if I was. I had no shame. The no morals if someone like me were to be like, you know, what I'm going to become a conservative who yells to camera that for for a living. I'm going to go through a fake public change. And I'm going to see where it can take me. Do you think like how big a career? Do you think you have you ever thought about how big a career you could have just were like I'm going to be -servative? Our cats would reject us. We would come home and there'd be cap his on our beds because they'd be like you fake bitches like my cat foods, not that expensive that you need to do this. But no because like I just think that like I mean, I've got IBS it would be triggered. If I became a really. Bad person. I mean, TamI Lauren is sort of is one of those two who seems as though she she's been taking positive reinforcement. She gets for being angrier and further to the right and more like a more of a cartoon, and she's taken that positive reinforcement and folded it back in on herself. And now she's like a parody of a parody of a parody. And well, it's like, do, you know who else is interesting just who came to mind as you were talking? So you know, that congressman Sean Duffy. Oh my God. He's my parents congressman. He's my parents. Rachel campos. He married. Rachel campos. Who is now some also looney conservative commentator. I want to be girl you made out with puck in the real world. Like, I just don't see the evolution yet. She was she's terrible there. They actually live in my family's congressional district. Or that's where they are based in like, it's they're so different than the people that live there normally like Sean Duffy in person is the color of attention. He is. Is so his so tannin his teeth are like West Hollywood white. And he's like so just so not how people look or act in northern Wisconsin. And he just really really really wants to be career politician. Rachel Campos is an interesting one because she's been chasing being a like, I'm just a mom like I'm concerned. Mom, she's been trying to be that on TV for so long. And it hasn't happened for her yet. Well, she was trying to be Elizabeth Hasselbeck. Yes. She was but nobody can be Elizabeth Hasselbeck because for as looney tunes as Elizabeth Hasselbeck was she was spectacularly perfect at it. There's nobody that can defeat her at being lunatic. True. She's the best. She was the Michael Jordan of being crazy high in near. She was she was she was the pioneer for these people. Because where did she came from what survivor? She did. She was a America's sweetheart on survivor, and then show you. Think they get their own. My God have we cracked the code that some of the looniest got their starts in reality in the in the pioneer of reality television. I mean, our president did I don't think you have the president. If he wasn't acting like if he hadn't acted like a boss on TV in a fake show on a fake said. And I think that that's sort of what the the media garbage soup that were cooking. And right now is is one that elevates people that are the craziest in the loudest and the most out there, and those are the people that end up being asked to testify to us. And now, those are the people that Donald Trump is trying to appoint to be the ambassador to the United Nations. And they're the people that Trump is giving high level positions within his government. They have no business doing it. And that's that's why I think it's important for people to pay attention to this thing. Even though there are a million. But I could list off a hundred things right now that are terrible that I would rather do than pay attention to these people, but we just need to just keep tabs on them. I think I don't think you need to watch tummy Lauren yell about the NFL into a camera on Fox News to get what she's doing. But I think if Tommy Lauren gets appointed is is as to testify somewhere gets appointed somewhere or gets elevated to more power than she has. And it's something that we should keep tabs on. Okay. Well, that's all the time. We have for this conversation Lissa as always thank you so much for joining me, and we'll talk next week. Bye. Bye. We have to take a break. But when we come back, more hysteria. Hysteria is brought to you by our friends at swell investing. There is a fundamental issue with investing in America. 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For a limited time, our listeners get a fifty dollars bonus. When they sign up check it out at swell, investing dot com slash hysteria. Swell. Invest in progress. This episode of hysteria is brought to you by quip one of the most important things we do for our health every day is brushing her teeth yet. Most of us don't do it. Properly. Quip is a better electric toothbrush. Created by dentists and designers quip was designed to make brushing your teeth more simple, affordable and even enjoyable the quip toothbrush features sensitive sonic, by brations gentle enough on your sensitive, gums, it also has a built in two minute timer that pulses every thirty seconds to remind you into switch sides, helping guide a full and even clean whip. Doesn't require a clunky. Charter and runs for three months on one charge. Why can't my phone battery do that? 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One of my co host here because I just love I'm an evangelical quip user, that's why I love quip and why they're backed by over twenty thousand dental professionals quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash hysteria. Right now, you get your first refill pack for free with a quick electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack for free at GE T, Q, U I, P dot com slash hysteria. Welcome back. We have reached the part of hysteria where we talk a lot about something. We think about a lot that isn't necessarily in the news. But it's in our heads. I I want to introduce the wonderful women that I have with me today first of all comedian floral print where Meghan gaily. Hi, how have you been? I've been good. I've been traveling. I've been traveling. But now, I'm working. So I have to stay here. You've been working in a room. I went back to work this week too. I really lunch and typing. You know? Yeah. Doing it. Yeah. It's like your whole day leads to lunch. It's fun. What we do is. Oh, it's oh, it's fine fun. But I get there being like what's for lunch, and then lunch happens, and you spend the rest of the day trying not to snack or then you're talking about lunch. Lunch was good today. While you're trying to also write a television show that Maria Bamford bit about people in an office. Like, yeah. About quiz knows. That's what I think about every time anybody talks about anything. Second. We have grace par heist needs. No description, everybody. Everybody knows you buy one in the world knows grace par. You're like the beyond say of grace par. Thank you so much. I only recognizing that. Benefit like, it's been a minute. It has been a minute. I'm good God. What have I also actually been working in a room for a pilot the last few weeks as well? And a lot of conversations about lunch. Lot of trying not to snack. I had soup before. I had in and out yesterday. I don't know if you guys had a pre in-and-out suit. Yes. Correct. It okay out soup free meal. Sometimes. Yeah. I like a pre meal that's an app you'd unappetizing. Yeah. Did. Oh, man. I I always order too much food when I order take out because when I order take out I'm at a point where I'm like desperate until order like three it'll be like, I don't I don't know what I'm going to want when the food gets here. So I order like three different things. And I always feel this kind of dovetails to the the topic. We're going to talk about today. I always feel shamed. By by the take-up people because they give me like eight sets of chopsticks, this is enough food for eight people, and I pick it up. And I know I just feel like there's a moment where the delivery person knows that. It's just for me. Yeah. And it's just it feels like an aggressive interaction last. But not least we have Michaela Watkins joining today. Hello. When's the last time you were embarrassed Michaela? Oh, gee. It's a it's a dry daily occurrence. I would say. You know, I can't stand it. I have to be introduced I next time because there's so many things I wanna come. I'm sitting over here being like yes super formula. That's incredibly goes dicussing. Yeah. Oh, dan. It's very, yeah. It's like a great way to go. I always talk about soup for breakfast wire opened a super breakfast part. Yeah. I in Austin, and then I had to apologize. When I saw it today because I was like, I was you know, wild place when I when I saw you in that bathroom, I was all over what happens. Ran into each other in a bathroom in Austin. That's all Austin during south by with thousands of people. We crossed an for. It was just a moment was like Meghan. No, no, no. I was about to go on stage at I felt crazy. With people. I never been on stage with like, oh, let's do improv is if we've been doing a pre oh, dear. That's a lot of stress pressure right there. Let's let's Fain chemistry. Well, talking about executive performance anxiety is I guess it it flows. Well, into what we're talking about today because the reason people get nervous before they perform is because they're afraid that it'll go wrong, and they will feel shame wait and make a bridge. Ryan what? I didn't I didn't jump on the usually leading the same. Yeah. Wow. That's a pretty impressive. I wanted to talk about shame. Because I think a lot of times the way that we talk about it publicly is something that's good or bad rather than just holding it up as something that just sort of is it's a tool that's been used to oppress people. It's a tool that's been used to keep people in line in ways that are actually good. And it's a way that we feel when things happen to us are unexpected. Or when people put things on us that we didn't necessarily want or earn. So it's a personal thing for sure it's also a social thing. And I think that it's something that a lot of people who should feel it don't. So it's this. It's sorta like money like the people who shouldn't have money have like so much money the people who should feel. Shame like don't. Yeah. Feel shame at all. So I'm gonna I'm gonna float this question to the table ones. The first time that somebody tried to shame you I I hate to out my dad for this. But like, I Barbie I was the youngest of three girls and my dad, really. He wanted a boy. And and I'm Michaela I was supposed to be a Michael and Barbies were not allowed in our house. Like, we did not we were not a girly group of girls. We did not have any kind of. There was really no vanity that was even okay in our house. In fact, I don't know if it's a combo of Judaism or just my dad's sort of more austere way of raising us. But it was just you just didn't indulge in fancy fairy tale princesses stuff at all. It was really frowned upon. And of course, I had these old books with these. Snuck into my house. No, I'm kidding contraband. But, but I had you know, books with with, you know, Grimm's fairy tales and all these other things with all these beautiful princesses in it. And of course, I would want to emulate them in the mirror and my dad walked in when I was sort of just up and making faces at myself in the mirror, and I just will never forget the look on his face. It was such disgust. It was like a, and I the only reason I remember that is because in my thirties when I was doing therapy. Relationships were working. I I kinda went back to that memory, and I had a sort of unpack it a little bit. And I think that there was this divide that happened in me where my feminine side. And my my other side, my masculine side, or whatever side were were sort of split in that moment, and I felt like to become sort of romantic or intimate with a guy ahead of kind of put down the jokes and the fun sloppy Michaela and become like, suddenly I had to morph into like. And now I'm sexual being. And with that voice. Take off your pants. And so I didn't know how to like put bring the two together. And it took like a lot of work to finally connect the integrate those two parts of myself again. So yeah, I remember I don't remember like I have a brain that works. Thank goodness where I lot of times like really bad stuff. All but the very worst stuff. I just kind of forget just forget it even happened. The very worst stuff you hold onto as like your little treasure trove of like negativity that every time and the good happens. It's like, but what about this? But I used to. I remember using shame as a weapon when I was a kid, and it's always been something that I've been very tuned to is like my superpower is the ability to make people feel bad about themselves. I felt a lot of internalized. Shame growing up. I was the youngest of boys. So by the time, I was born everyone was so happy that there was a girl. And so I felt very very celebrated but at a pretty young age. I, you know, I started struggling a lot with depression, and you know, just issues that seemed beyond what a young girl should be going through and my brothers sort of like acted out. But we're like really cool, and they went to see this counselor to try and help them sort of like curb their behavioral issues, and then when I came around, and obviously there was something going on with me. My my parents took me to see the same counselor and after two sessions, I remember him like bringing my parents in and being like this. She's like above my pay grade. And it was really so embarrassing. And you know, when you're young. Young. And you're struggling with that you're already ashamed. And then I was like this man who helped to my brothers who are like worse behaved than me can't even deal with me in front of you. I think so. Yeah. I mean, I don't think he said pay grade. But he was like he definitely specifically was like you need to take her to like a specialist that deals in Adelaide girls because she's she's just going through emotional issues that are that are very very intense. And so I shouldn't be required. Traumatizing? I mean, that's the thing that can stick with you. I mean, even to like as we were like looking at this outline in preparing for this. I was like God I feel like everybody was like really really great to me. And it wasn't. I don't fault. This man at all. Because I ended up going to see a woman who truly in so many ways ended up saving my life. And I you know, I credit my mom with a lot of that for being like, no she is like doing. I remember it was expensive. And my dad was like she's like everybody likes her. She's cute whatever she'll get over that. It's okay. And I just I wasn't. I just wasn't getting over it. And I I lost a friend to suicide at a very very young age. And I think that. Definitely sent my parents into like, a we gotta deal with this. This is real. But I remember being like, oh, I felt different than my brothers in so many ways, you know, they played on sports teams together to my brothers and going to the same college where in the same fraternity there two years apart, I'm much younger. And then I was like not only am I like gender and sex different than them. I'm also like weird. I'm weirder than them. Yeah. There's a lot of shame that that surrounds like mental health issues in different parts of the country in different cultures, and in some places, it's really normalized for people to seek help. And in some it's totally not normal. And I think that I don't know a ton about your family, Meghan. But I do know in the mid west. It's like totally not as normal as to light. Yeah. Seek mental help, you know. Luckily, my mom had struggled. I mean, not. Luckily, I'm sad for her. She very much saw immi like, oh, I was not treated and she went on to have. Very traumatic eating disorder and a lot of issues. And so I think she was like if we can nip this in the bud earlier than than I got. And she's also a nurse. She's very into being proactive about your health. And if that had not happened if I did not have that support from her. You know, I I don't think I would be here today. Well, I mean that brings up a really important point. First of all, I'm very glad to hear me because you're a delayed. But the point that you bring up where you know, your mother you talk about your mother's struggling with an eating disorder. And you talk about you being a little girl in not knowing what was wrong with you and being behaving fine. But also having this stuff, I think as women and girls, we direct. Our we direct our problems in word. And that's why a lot of times that we suffer. It's silently. And it's in these quiet like slow death, emotions like shame where it's something that we we direct like our hate in word, and we kind of see it sits inside of us and. It kind of quiets us down and keeps us from being who we should be. And it's I feels like a very female emotion in that in that moment. I wish that they had never brought me to see this, man. You know? I was like, oh, I'm doing such. I was a smile on the outside go home, and and be destroyed on the inside. And so I was like I can do that. I'm like really really good at compartmentalizing. Why don't you just like let me do that? And now as a grownup, I'm I'm so happy that they didn't let that just keep happening. But I felt so embarrassed and shamed. That I had to go to like therapy, which now, you know, is celebrated we live in California. This was the nineties in Indianapolis wasn't. It was you were going dark staircases today's place. Yeah. Grace, what was your experience with shame as a kid will, you know, I actually not not to pivot too much. But I was thinking about how shame affects me to to this day. And now as an adult, it's something that I think I. Count a lot more often than I'm even cognizant of the reason this this something thinking about it because I got shamed. Yesterday in a story that I'll tell you guys about briefly I have been living in this new place with my boyfriend since September. We love it. It's great. It's great. There are a few things here. And there that that we'd been kind of racking up as like, oh, there's a leaky ceiling. We should get fixed. There's a a couple of doors sliding door. That's that's not working. There's a door between two bedrooms that isn't working at cetera. So we we through series of texts we end up texting with our property manager. Who's like I'm gonna come over this afternoon. This yesterday, I'm gonna come over this afternoon. And just tell me everything we'll have a contractor come Saturday. And I was like great. So I have to do this alone. Because I boy friends working not a big deal at all. He and I talk about an advance. And he he tells me like, I'm really sorry. I can't be there. He can't it's work. It's totally understandable. But the reason that I that I came to understand that he was feeling bad about not being there because of what an happening, which is this guy comes up, and I pull out a list. And immediately this guys like, oh, God, you have a list now rolling his eyes at me. I'm so mad already. And and I this grace don't I know, I know, and I'm like, well, you know, I just we really love living here. And I I don't want to take up too much time. I immediately start apologizing immediately because his attitude to me is you are making my job more difficult. You also are a woman who's here by yourself. You don't know much about what you're talking about is. I don't I don't know that much about how things I don't know that much about car things these are two areas whereas women as as a woman, I'll just speak for myself here. I don't feel very knowledgeable. So yes, I tend to ask a lot of questions, and I tend to feel shamed. By men who tend to be experts in these areas when I ask a lot of questions in an in some ways that's better than being made to feel belittled or or condescended to. But all that was wrapped up in this experience of just being like this guy at some point yesterday. It was like why don't you just become a lawyer? And I become a lawyer what because I'm asking questions about the home that I live in. Right. I mean, like it's sort of ties into what Megan was things like she had shamed. Tied with the feeling of getting help you were asking questions. It's like anytime, we express an aeneid. Exactly that that we are somehow punished for it for having a need because you're supposed to be the need fulfilling and not the need Havers. Yeah. It seems like shame is something that is used against women and girls to like maintain the social order like if you step out if you're like, I need to seek mental health counseling. I need to ask you a bunch of questions about what you're doing to my walls. I need to my car by God. I just bought a car this weekend. And they latch relations how terrible I don't recommend it. Yeah. I don't recommend buying a car. I don't recommend cars at all. I recommend jet packs. My next investment may next cars would be a jet pack. It's my sad Goto with like car situations is I walk in. I try and have a full face of makeup on. I'm super super sweet, I'm doing a little off shocks. And then I'm like I have to call my dad, even though like I'm paying for things. But I. Make the assumption of like who knows where the money's coming from. And I call my dad and my dad when it comes to like my safety is going to be a pit bull. So I put him on. We're doing like a good cop bad cop from across the country and the good cop just happens to be a woman who looks good. Yeah. It's funny. 'cause I was thinking that the story of your dad, it's like, I just need to call. My dad Charles w Chevrolet. Now, you might have an opinion on how to buy a car. And the thing is I don't even think my dad knows anything. But it is. They're like, I'm, but my go-to is like all find them a, man. Yeah. They'll talk to the man. And then they'll come and talk to me that sort of thing. I totally get I brought my boyfriend with me. And he I ended up getting a good deal. But I don't know if I would have gotten a good deal if there hadn't been a man there for me. It's like on one hand, I understand why you would bring a guy with you on the other hand. It's like God. What if I were a single mom having to do this? And I didn't have a guy could. Yeah. That's fucking bullshit. Like how how do I stop this? Like, what can I do? And then follow each other trying to help you find your car. Just like we go this good. Is this going to be good? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It was it was it was crazy. But I think that like for for women and girls, it's a way to keep us in line. I mean, even when it. Comes. So we didn't even get into like slut shaming. Which is I think the term slut is usually the one next to shaming that we see the most frequently. I let my freak flag hair fly with my natural curls. Because like, I didn't even you know, we I always had this thing where I just wanted straight blond hair so badly my whole life because I wanted to assimilate I wanted to be normal so badly, and I felt that I was carrying around the secret that everybody knew that I was a Jew. And of course, it's passed down from like, you know, centuries of people chasing Jews out of everywhere. And in your mind, you're like, oh, that's why Jews became so funny because we're trying to take shame back or trying to be like where pieces of shit. I know. Like like Woody Allen is like I'm such a of shit. I can't believe I could date this lady ship, and it's like trying to take all that. Shame back and own it and make joke about it. But the same time it's still in there ripping apart a little bit. Yeah. Even when you're joking about it. It's it's definitely like it's like if you're drinking poison your drinking this poison. You're still like drinking the poison and everything up a quick counterpoint. Yes, please. I wish more people would feel shame throw that out there. So who do you wish would? I mean because I think you, and I were is Catholic right? Yes. Yeah. You raise guy was as well. So there's like there's a guilt. Shame component of. I think it's a cousin of Jewish. Shame. Guilt. Not the same thing. But now, my friends who are Jewish, and when we when I talk about how I feel like a piece of shit most of the time like, oh that sounds a lot like how I also feel like a piece of shit and not the same. Yeah. But similar like like for me. It was like my Jewish friends. The the guilt is like your mom would be like you never call me. And my mom would be like, you know. I'm all I'm glad. You're you know, I'm glad you're doing. So well that you don't need to call. Undercut different kinds of different flavor. But their cousins. Yeah. Yeah. I think that like, but they're you know, we feel it. We're feeling it when we remember it. But there are people that aren't feeling at gray. So there's a lot of people in entertainment who do not feel shame. I understand that in order to succeed in entertainment. There has to be an air of confidence. Unfortunately, quiet thoughtful reserved. Personalities with people who kind of withhold their skills until the moment comes to shine. And then they don't talk about themselves that often is very very rare. And it's not rewarded. Why would it? I mean in social media. Social media is a reflection of how we exists in society. The louder voices are the ones that get the most attention. But it unnerves me that there's I and I think there's a big difference between confidence and between cockiness. And I think we're seeing a lot of people feel like they have to emulate that that air of cockiness in order to succeed. Even clearly comes from a place of insecurity. Even if it clearly comes from a place of not feeling confident in themselves. They're just projecting that because they feel like that's what has to happen. And listen, we're living in the of Trump. There's a reason that that's happening is because we're seeing how blustery cockiness can make somebody Rice's success knows. What came first the chicken? Glad. Yeah. I feel like we were sort of heading down this path. And he represents that you know, that we said because I don't think there should be shamed. Except for a public colossal. Shame. You know, like you said, Erin, the people who sit should feel. Shame don't. So I feel like there has to be this, you know, sort of big wave of shame that goes out to all the people who support redistribution of shame. Yes. The shame goes to the people who support somebody who feels. No shame. Yeah. Who is in key incapable of feeling shame. And who's doing the most shameful things like that? We can send that way. But individually one on one I feel like we have to completely eradicate shame because I feel like it is from shame that most of hateful behavior. Does is sprung. I think that's right. Yeah. Like, homophobia seems like it's born of shame. A lot of a lot of seems like it's born of shame of of women. And I think that I think that the confidence thing is an important counterweight. We talked about confidence just the other week. But one thing I've noticed is that people want short cut to having the thing that causes the the symptom people want the they think that the symptom causes the disease like, so if they drive a BMW, it means that they're successful. And in reality, if you're successful, you might earn enough money to purchase a BMW. Also, if you're successful in bad with money, that's what you would do. But you know, it's it's like, oh if I'm if I project. Shamelessness then I have nothing to feel bad about. But that doesn't it doesn't work in reverse. You have to like work from the inside out in order for that to actually be true. I do think there's been a positive rise in sort of the branding of like, I mean, you'll see even like young adolescents in shirts that are like no shame shameless. Like that kind. I mean, there's a very successful show called shameless. So I I mean, and you know, there's some problematic characters on some problems. But I I do think that they're the generation sort of like behind us. That's in highschool. Now, definitely seems like they are not feeling as much shame as we did. And maybe it's just t shirts. Maybe maybe Jeff hashtags. There's there's obviously a rise in in the shame. They're feeling because we didn't go to school when there were social media. That would've really. Really ruined for me. I'm so I'm sorry to circle back to what you were saying grace because I think it is so interesting like that I did start to you did start to feel a change in the either. When people started to say, no, I refuse to feel bad about this. And that then toppled into I refused to feel bad about any early. Any? I know that dovetails a little bit with what Megan is thing because it's kids should live a life, basically free of shame. So that it can develop an explore themselves. But shame should set in. When you reach adulthood as away her you from doing things that are fucked up and hurt people. Yeah. That's like what shame should be. I wanna talk a little bit about shame and sex just because it's something that I think is often closely associated when I was a kid. We I I didn't grow up in a house where we talked about sex at all I remember being in elementary score or very early elementary school. When we got one of those weekly reader. Remember, those things were like four pages. And they're like, here's a new story for kids like pictures of penguins, or whatever. But I remember there was one special that was about aids because we as first graders needed to know. Wow. And it was like the height of the pandemic. But in Wisconsin, it's like we didn't really, but they handed it out. And I remember our teacher was like nobody can laugh when I read this aloud I remember my teacher said the word sex. And I was mortified I was so mortified because we just didn't talk about it in my house. I never got. I never got a sex talk. I did have my mom sit me down. Once when I was like in eighth grade and told me what a period was. But by that point all ready had a class called human growth and development, which was a very intense class where we use the correct words for things and on the first day of the class. We had to go around reading the definitions of things. And so I learned everything I needed to know about sex from school, and my parents never taught me about it. So even like in my house now, and I'm. Sorry, dad for blowing up your spot. I hope you're not listening to this because this would ashamed my phone. My dad is one of those people who he's wonderful father. But we would like as a family be watching the sound of music, and he would have to get up and leave the room in the scene. When captain von Trapp and Maria like make out. I know he he couldn't deal. So you'd have to get that's how like over to like any sex stuff. My family was so when I first became somebody who is sexually active older than probably most people it became something. That was like I had a little bit of like weird residual shame around went away pretty quickly. But it's something that I think a lot of people don't necessarily escape truly unscathed. What are your experiences with shame and sexuality? Well, I'm happy to report that I grew up not having a ton of conversations about sex either. But my parents in their retired years have become more vocal about sex than anybody else that I know, and my mom is the first one to make jokes about it. My mom's the first one to ask questions that I have no desire to answer about my own experiences in life in that way. And and I think it's it's really charming because I like you Erin grew up Catholic, and it was not. Really disgusted. All I also had three big brothers have three brothers. And so they they're still very much live. So the three so they didn't want to hear about any of that. There was not a lot of conversations about that. But but that change that shifted, and I think that a big reason why there was a shift is because the youngest of my three brothers who's gay when he came out, my family's very very very accepting so much so that my parents, basically denounced Catholicism in many ways because they're like well, not in many ways in all the ways because they're like how can we belong to this institution? That's not supportive of our son. And so seeing that happen. I could see my parents, it just shifted everything for them because suddenly sex became this thing that was not to be discussed sexuality with something. That was the same for everybody and the second that my brother came out, suddenly all those tropes that they knew to be consistent within every every individual was not the case anymore, and I think it opened their eyes which then brought in the conversation. So it was great. And I love the fact that my. Parents are in their seventies talking about sex. It's hilarious. That is amazing. And let's get them on the show. Meghan. Do you were you ever in a situation in school where a girl you watched a girl be shamed? For her sexuality like high school college. Oh, yeah. I mean, there was a girl who got thrown out of our church because she like someone in highschool made a sex video of her. I mean, not thrown out of church. She got thrown out of church. It wasn't even like a, you know. You know, it was just like a regular gas lecture. I mean, I had about it was very. The the preset. I'm sorry. This is above my pay grade. Just like listen I've seen the video. And so I. My reaction to that very much was like, oh, I never having sex. I was like so so afraid of it. I used to I li- that I'd given a blow job when I had it because I felt so embarrassed I never lied about giving a blow job. I did that too. I was really any like everybody is like right Ellie. That's the other side of like sex positivity though, if you will like live at your in a culture where like all the cool people are like sex positive, but then in your house, it's like, no. Negative, you end up doing this thing where I was like really well behaved, I never did anything. And I remember being in social situations where like I have to lie about how experienced. Yup. And I think that there are women and girls who choose to not have sex earlier. They don't feel ready when they're in high school or even an early college who feel like they need to pretend like it's like. Oh, yeah. Yard backwards. Shame years, no mail word for slut. There's just none. And you know, that was the first word that was the first way I knew how to put down a girl in my class. You know, oh, she's a slut. And especially if you wanted to remove her as possible competition, you know entity you were like I heard she slept with so. And so, you know, she slept the whole football team, or whatever, you know. And it's just sad. Women are sort of to shame. What any wits are to the word snow? We have like fifty different ways that the word for shame is sham. It's comes from German, which is Jonah. So. What what a fact. Yeah. Fund. The men's they thought of everything right, man. I remember being in college and Catholic college. I I went all the way with Catholic college. And I remember my freshman year. There was a case of like a girl who accused members of the football team of sexual assault. And the case when when like it I was being whispered whispered about on campus. Everybody was whispering about her. Like, she was a slut like she was. Oh, yes. She always looked up football players, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it probably didn't have it ended up being that all four of them were exonerated. But the way that we are I talking about it when we knew literally nothing about the case was the first the way the girls were talking about it. We're like this girl's a slut Mattielo goski. Yeah. Monica Lewinsky is a great one to kind of close our conversation on shaimaa. And let's Bekale are you comfortable sharing the Monica Lewinsky. Yeah. It's my best story. I I'm I'm happy the the the long and short of it is that I had a terrible horrific type. Yeah. We'll debate is tipped, but I had a really bad day on Twitter because all the trolls came out when I called our president racist because he is. And and so, you know, it was like on my Twitter, and my Instagram and Facebook, and I was real bummed out about it. And because I hadn't learned privacy controls yet. And now, I do so fuck you, and you can't get me. And so I went to this party that night and I never smoke weed. But I 'cause I makes me immediately so stupid. And but I was not having a great day. And I thought why the hell not and I walked in. This woman was just so kind and sweet. And like I was just like, so what do you do where are you from? Oh god. I don't know how to socialize. And then the long short is. She said, oh, I know this. Person because I give talks I said what about and she said, bullying, I said, oh, I had really bad day. Could she arms around me hugged me pulled me in like good? God how this woman read my mind. Like, I needed a hug I needed a full on hug, and I felt like all my troubles went away. And then as I was driving home. My friend said did you fund talking to Monica Lewinsky? I wanted to crap myself because. The fact that I said to this woman whose entire adult. Life was shredded since she was twenty two to say, you know, I had a bad day on Twitter just mortification utter total mortification I didn't recognize her. She's such a God damn delight. And I would have apologized would apologize because I too fell into that thing where even at the time. I would think I was in college. And I was like, I know this is wrong. I know that this is wrong the way we're talking about her. Ooh. But I just thought of a good punch line. You know what I mean? But I don't even know if I launched all the time because I remember thinking this is not right. But that's what I'm talking about grace when I'm talking about a grand public Uber. Shia. Yeah. But not but not individuals. So yeah, we need to have a panel decide who gets Uber shaved. And it needs to be a well vetted panel of professionals have good morals and like a good. Shame technocrats. Yeah. I mean, I think Uber could be shamed. From. Uber shaming right there. Monica Lewinsky should be on that panel for sure she decide who gets shamed. And who doesn't right? What an any? She wouldn't shame. Anybody wouldn't is? I honestly I've I've met her before as well. And she's a friend of Eliza who's one of our other panelists on the show, and she's just like lovely. She's just a lovely person. I can't imagine the amount of strength that she's had to overcome what she overcame and to carry on the wishes carried on and she so inspiring to so many people I think that's like as good a note as any to end on. I'm glad we solved that we sell. We solved it. We solved. Shame. We're done. We're done with shame. We have to take a break when we come back. The hillsdale Diane. This week's episode of hysteria is brought to you by parachutes. Everybody has a relaxation uniform. Whether it's a luxurious bathrobe, beware. Favorite quilt, you wrap around yourself. Or a pair of slippers you slide into your relaxation uniform is a wearable out of office sign. So now it says I'm supposed to talk about what I put on take the day off. But I work from home up until this week. I was working from home most days. And so what I was wearing what we're closed that. If my mother saw me, she would be concerned, it was like whatever was on my floor like sweat pants. Maybe like a sports bra maybe closed from the gym from getting home like five hours before that. I haven't really taken off. And I'm just kind of sitting there in my own felt so I like to imagine that my out of office uniform, it'd be a luxurious bathrobe like I'm in a Nancy Meyers movie, but really my out of office uniform is just whatever is on the floor of my disgusting apartment where I live. Myself. But luckily, if you're not gross like me parachute has many options parachute has great towels sheets. Anything that you would need to make your bed super comfy and less disgusting than the floor of my apartment, and I highly recommended I have parachute sheets on my bed. And they keep me cool. And I definitely feel like I'm sleeping on something. High quality when I take off my out of office uniform and start to act like a rational adult person and sleep on an adult persons bed. Visit parachute home dot com slash hysteria. For free shipping and returns on parachutes premium quality, very comfortable. Home essentials. That's parachute dot com slash hysteria. This episode of hysteria is brought to you by h h teen the teens are all right, and one of the reasons why is because of the books they read about the issues that they care about books like the ones published by h teen whose recent young adult titles include voices by David Elliott, the final hours of Joan of arc which touches on issues like freedom of gender expression, religion and standing up for a cause girl made of stars by Ashley Harring Blake and emotional in timely story about a girl whose twin brother is accused of rape every moment after by Joseph mold over a debut about two friends who survived a school shooting kids, reinforcing the importance of gun control and mental health education and white rose by Kip Wilson, a novel in verse about World War Two resistance activists. Sophie Schroll who Hillary Clinton recently called a hero who stood up for what was right with unflinching bravery perfect for teens or adults or for teens and parents who like to read together, h h teen publishes? Why for everyone follow h teen on social media and visit WWW? Dot H T dot com today to learn more. And we're back with more hysteria. We are almost out of time for this week. But we have one more thing. This is where we take adamant stances on things that don't really matter. The hills will die on. Let's start with listener hill. Hey hysteria women. This is Jen from Edwardsville, Illinois. And here's the hill. All Diane camping is absolutely one hundred percent. And not a vacation. If I have to do everything that I normally do at home, but with fewer resources in a smaller space with a chemical toilet or worse yet. No toilet friends. That is not a vacation. That is what you do when you're running from the law. S lady I worked my azoff all year long. And you know, what I want? I want a hotel with sheets and room service. So that's the hilby diet on while I wave at you for my gorgeous hotel while y'all. I love that. That's great. I feel like there's a lot of nodding around the table. And I'm a I'm gonna go ahead. And I'm not going to die on that hill. I'm not I love I love camping ranking. But I feel. Yeah. I would much rather be. I'm like kinda done with Airbnb to give me a hotel. I want to know where like the sheets are resurgence of hotel is coming for. Yeah. It's coming in my life. Lamping I guess, but then it's like I don't wanna be in like a kind of nice cabin. I'd rather just be. I think he'd do like a combo platter. I think you do you rough it for a few days, and then, you know, go take it self to a nice place for night. Yeah. I have a really good dinner. Everything will taste better. Everything will feel better. You'll have such a new preseason for things. I know roughing no roughing roughing. So I love I love I love. I love a rough. And you follow it up with something. Really nice. Like in a mill hike for like ninety minutes. That's fine. I like a boat of oh, I hate. It's just a prison. I like water prison so bad prison me. Me vote is three hours of me. Figuring all the ways we're gonna die. Yeah. I guess it's like also thinking about sharks. Even if I'm in a lake shark could probably get in here. A psychopath who lives below the waterline. Oh, yeah. They have very my brain goes. That's wow. Yeah. That's interesting. So I'm going to be afraid of. No, I'm in the ocean. I'm like what if a baby washed up? I just have these. Well camping. I like it. I like it. I think you have to follow it up with something. Nice. But I like camping. But I respect the hill. Okay. So my hill this week don't give balloons as a present of any kind. They are responsibility like flowers are like at least there is a responsibility. But at least they're beautiful, and they do all good. They smell good. And you feel really you can look at them, and you feel special a balloon is like giving somebody a hermit crab. It's like there's this thing that if I let it go. I have the stress of watching it float away knowing it's gonna like land in the ocean, Lambda, choke a baby seal and also like or I'm gonna keep it in my house. I'm going to successfully I'm going to succeed with a balloon to keep it in my house, and I'm going to watch it slowly late now aging heavily day. Right. Happy birthday. This is a this is bad up version of the rest of your life. Yeah. I'm going to deflate. And then you're going to be on the ground and someone's going to throw you in the garbage and be like, oh, I wish. Had gotten this, by the way. There's nothing worse than standing in line to get balloons to begin with party city is a nightmare place. It's a hell scape. It's terrible. I hate it. So no one is enjoying getting balloons to give as a gift anyway. Gift by if I would well lack congratulations to baby. I think they're nice supplement. I guess, but I think they're better supplements in the form like alcohol alcohol to an actual president would be one thing. But gesture balloon. Yeah. Like a balloon animal yet. But but you mean like like a child not for me. I don't wanna. But like, I don't know. Yeah. If I was drunk. I put one on the head. Anything's fine when you're drunk. I guess what? I realized I mean, I've been nephew who really likes balloons. He just likes it because he's a child. Yeah. But I, but generally, but then also if he has a balloon, and it gets let go it's the worst. And he's always going to remember. I just just don't just pass on the balloons. Yeah. There's other things that you can like straws hard pass. Yeah. Totally. All right. Who wants to go next? I'm so ready from grace Gracie raring to go. Okay. So today, scientists revealed the first image of a black hole. Have you guys seen it? No. I I read online. It's nothing. It's a blurry piece of shit. I don't understand why we making a bit. I get it. Like, it's huge, historically. I understand Lord. Yes. Yes. The Lakers a woman behind the algorithm. That allowed us to take a photo blog hole for the first time. Congratulations. What am I looking at here? What is this? You know? Yeah. It's that's it. That's the whole thing. I saw that at around it. It's it's been isn't learning. And then if you go in you're gone. Yeah. I guess so but doesn't that? Just click. Okay, guys, like an eclipse. It's not let me go subatomic. I thought it was a big old appointment, I'm very happy for the science community. And I know that this is a hot take a picture of Adolf is a disappointment. Yeah. Let me put my push. My glasses up my nose for a moment may that black holes are basically supermassive concentrated matter. Right. Where the clothes like the gravitational field is so strong that light can escape. So theoretically as you approach the center, you just your atoms. Yeah. Disintegrate did. I miss a whole year of middle school. You're all like matter. I learned from children's encyclopedia when I learned what a black hole was I stayed up all night being afraid that one was going to get me. Oh, wow. I was too young too young to know about black holes. But I was they're very they're very scary. I guess I mean that doesn't look that scary to me that looks like I just think that in this age of Photoshop filters. Give us something something. So you you would have accepted it with like Valencia? A hundred percent you could just like sharpen it a little bit sharpened the contract. We more concerned about the whole inside. Instead of that ring of fire around the ring is like the last I think it's just a release of energy before everything just kind of break that is fascinating. They come back. And I'm glad we're talking about black holes. I think that the visual representation could be better. You know? So I know it's rude. It's rude. It's rude to talk to black hole Brandon about hind it. No. It's just it's just a like if you looked at it from the side, there would be like matter matter. But like, yeah. Owns that. Yeah. It's it's really it's scare you know, when I was a kid, I was really afraid of it. But just now I was like what if a black hole swallowed all of us. And I would be fun. I wouldn't want quicksand as a kid would you've been scared of that. Slowly, dying insane that that that would be. That's interesting visual stuff of nightmares. Yeah. Tied come in. While you're in now. No, all right. Who wants to go next Meghan? I'll go next. I think bubble tea sucks. I think it's expensive. I think it tastes like sticks. I think if you like I mean talk about those straws we're going after tiny. It's like we need to get bubble tea straws gone first because whole schools of fish are getting caught in those. They're so mad if you saw the tapioca is we it tastes like sort of like. Kind of hard come. I mean, it's like. It's so if you swallow when you could choke on I can't hire businesses existing just from selling bubble tea, y'all got up y'all got a brand out because it's macho I love macho you're wrong. No. I'll I'll kick. Yeah. That's weird. I love it. I lift no, I don't wanna drink dirt about bubble tea. I agree with you that it's it's it's it's a scotch much. But I love like three to four sips of bubble. I don't want any more of a waste of money. I think that's how everyone feels my. They're like they want to like it. And the, and it's not I don't believe anyone really likes much like that texture. I don't know what it is. Hard. Come you, guys? Who does us? You know, big enough. We can admit it. Yeah. Mckay. Like somebody left the cap off the Pena's. Yeah. And then coming out in pellet. Yeah. Come just shooting down your thoughts. I guess. This is this is the blue. This is our first video sorry. And this is literally my dad is going to cry. Sorry, ryan. But you have the power to edit all this out that. Oh, yeah. That's true. But we're not we're not going to we're not, you know, what we need to be more. Come. Michaela. Do you wanna go less? Oh, sure. This is probably very banal. Because anytime you talk about cars and traffic in LA. It's like, but does everybody know the God damn rule about when two cars are trying to pass each other on a hill. Does everybody know that rule? It is you're supposed to pull over if you're the one with the with the like cars parked on your hand. I'm fucking your life. Oh, yeah. You're fucking my life. It's the rule. The rule is the person going. Uphill has right of way way. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. It doesn't always make sense because of the car situation. Erin, you have a great point. But you would fail traffic square. But if you go by has a tar twice dob like, I've definitely gun. Woo gone back on like in Beverly Hills. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna ruin the break capacity. Always to like pause. So like once they're in motion. They gotta kinda chug up the hill. Right. So if you're coming downhill, you think downhill would have right away because you're like, I got no brakes. Yeah. The way, but that's. Yeah. With my son. There's there's a. Yeah. There's that is the hill. That's all. You actually made die. So you're going to get an not going up this hill and then Michaela gets involved in slow speed collision because again. Because I really I will die on the hill of abstinence. Like with a Honda odyssey Pearl. That's I think the part of the reason why that even has to be a rule because cars are so big now like driving driving big car in LA. What a new a trash. Oh my God. I I just got one. But it's. I saw it. It's cute again. It's a hybrid electric. But but but it I get the finger constantly, and I and I feel like a douche bag in it. And I don't know how long this can last. Oh, man. Like a giant. Oh, like, Texas truck. Yeah. Texas big for vs. Sure. I saw murdered out SUV in my neighborhood recently. A what murdered out SUV? What does that all all black matte outside? Oh is that word murdered out? Yeah. Great. I learned something. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't about black holes. What? That that seems that seems a bit too much. Okay. Well, those are the hills that we're going to die on this week. We don't have to come up with a whole new one next week because I have to be your every week, and I keep having to come. It's like oh the other week. I did one about serial characters stealing from each other all the time which I was pretty proud of. But it was really scraping the bottle of my arm rain. Yeah. There's a steal a hamburglar. Yeah. It's like a theft based culture in the serial world, always stealing from each other. Yeah, observation thank you. Anyway, we got to wrap up race, Megan and the Kayla. Thank you for joining me in studio today semester, Monaco. Thank you for joining us over the phone. There will be more hysteria next week. Shut down.