81. Get Carter (1971)
I everybody thanks for tuning in and listening as always especially during these trying pandemic times. My guest on the pod today is someone I've been looking forward to talking about a movie with for quite some time. He's my friend and sometimes colleague Paul Heaney who's a year broadcasting distributor and television. EXEC who I had the good fortune to meet some years ago. At one of our various TV conferences markets that we attend all over the world, and he's just one of those people you immediately look forward to seeing. Every time you run into him. He's got a wonderful sense of humor. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of British history and television and movie references, and he is always kind enough to indulge my annoying Anglo affiliate so when Paul and I finally connected and brought him here onto the podcast, we of course had to discuss the seminal influential dynamic incredible. Get Carter starring Michael Caine. Here's my conversation with Paul about get Carter. Okay so Paul. Of wanted to have you on for quite a while because. You're obviously big film Fan your big television. Your Big Television Fan you. You are a pop culture fan, and you are. UK. Born in bread, and you have a comedic sensibility of the highest magnitude. You have really good taste in general. You are here because we want to talk about get Carter. One day, a professional killer went home to visit his family and found his brother murdered. Killed Him. Nothing? The only reason I came back this crack house. To find out who did it. And I'm not leaving till I do. Michael Cain is counter. Get cutters. Cut her gets you. I want you to I set the stage a little bit for when you first encountered this movie, and what your experience of it was, and particularly, since we're talking about UK cinema and anything British in general. How does the class structure come into this film? And how it was received, and how you received it and how Michael Cain himself? Broke molds if there were any in the British film industry. Wow so a lot of questions in I think. Thanks And I'll see you in an hour. Council actually yeah. When I was really young I'm called New Jason so thankful mentioned that, but so far be connected that in. Nine counts it when I was quite young and thought was too so find on. This is Michael Caine as a proper batty had this happened, so I was used to what Jane? Mile Time Favorites Zulu and Other Michael Came said so. Wow, this is recognizing hang. This is a really dark and dingy and depressing and. I. Watched it I think and then years later then it got picked up by Zeitgeist in the Land Calcutta. And some films I think that it's still. I, think would love to say that was an influence like maybe lock stock. A few nights ago. Breweries. Science Com Dan about cruise to what she never football game. No one's watching custard SEIS which is to channel over? A fact is no photons and he wonders up and turns the laser over. Net fuck off from somewhere else. Really knows Clara is imminent, but he doesn't want to miss the end of the game so calm as a coma picks up a fire extinguisher. STRAIGHT PASTA JAM. We're ready for action complex on the entrance, even orders an aristotle of the most ping-pong, tiddly in the nucleus sub and switches back to his footer. That's fucking it as As fracking says rory and he gobs a mafela booze. Covering fatty afflicts a framing matching with bird's nest, and the geezers outlawed the leaking gas pipe. Rory unfazed turns back to his game. Is Teams one tune. An even actually I disappear down rabbit holes to give me today now. That's all we're about. While some of your contributors are just amazing and I'm just so all Michael comes to my time. I'm just going to be a colossal disappointment, so I may try and distract your zero stupid jokes and impersonations if they don't mind, but now he's found some rabbit holes in a there's a magazine called Viz. is which is actually had time sides. Adult comic which came out in the eighties? And it's still going. It's a real colts amongst genova vs I used to work with an editor who? was from the UK and he used to bring in the profanity Soroush. We. We would not work. We would spend hours crying with laughter. Over the various, just horrible terrible, just completely politically incorrect terminology that was used in that's he turned me onto visit. So that's right I wasn't on from very beginning, but there's a character in it, and it's just A. It's a comic strips, lied the ones I grew up with it was inspired by kids ones, but in nowadays these adult strips and there's one called big verb basically Beethoven is against a London step by the end of every single. Of every single story every week, or whenever it came out with the four nights, hit always blow his head off with with a shotgun. If. You're not gonNA GONNA. Tell you down if not I'm taking myself. And Vice gave blow his own head off because he was right. I'm not letting you. scumbags tight may, and so there was a little bit of that I'm just thinking of around this on radio. Looking at it again I. Thinking this is actually I always say if you spoke to the Newcastle based guys at Biz. Where a get cancer is is based. They would say in. It might have had that. In around in that candidates show of interest is because actually. Newcastle's really proud of it tyneside because it's not just new gateshead as well. His house where he lives in the film is engaged, said, which is a couple of miles away, so that is really quite proud of it and. Though. Not Down quite a few things have changed things little concrete in Gos- where it was terraced bricks and things like that from the film. Where did where did you grow up? I grew up in north. London so I'm Yes, I'M A. From Irish parents. Will the immigrants lived in different parts of London, so where in a place called the Holloway road. All the Solana Shit until the age of eighteen didn't actually meet anyone English at that time since. My Catholic School run by Christian brothers. Same School paid a might suing the impersonates. Dreadful jesuits on another stories net do not disappear that how that whole so yes, and also notes on the Nachshon is very. You miss out. You missed the GOP end of your. Your was like doing you Himachal Canes Accident, which is slightly different south London it sounded a few miles south consul, which is just south of the river. I of course, elephant and castle where talk of. Time because I didn't know there was just drama school anywhere, I'd never heard of that and it's very difficult to explain that to people. If you, come from I mean we're talking about what? Sixty years ago. You know the elephant and Castle, but just down there. When I became an actor I, became an active quite accidentally, really because I was I was a soldier and in National Service when I came out I, was working in a factory with an old man, and he said to me unity do this all your life I said no, he said. What do you wanted to do life? And I said what I want to become an actor. He's so, but I don't quite know how to go about it. All. He said I can tell you she really is. This is okay. Company? He said my daughter's a semi professional singer. He said, and if you go to Celosias deduce pay agents. Opposite! Less Square Tube station in Chiang, crossroad. Die Have a paper in there called stage, and if you look in the back pages, they advertised for actors. Sit really he said Yeah. On, the Saturday when I was working I went, and said stage manager and Small Parts Horsham Rep. And I went and got a job. And that's how I started I mean I was making the tea and all that and running around after everybody, but you know. I didn't get very much money. I was always hungry, but I will always always happy when parts where there was meals. Tabah. Milo, Yuno! no-one not many people really I don't know. It's nine dollars to one of Hendrix's swipes Catherine of going who was coldly infantile casteel when she was being talked about as potential wife offender delights amongst on educating people in London that London especially been -fensive Casteel became elephant and castle. That makes a lot of I. Love It. Yes. Sorry completely bushes that really good London story of the benefit of time. Okay, sorry twenty miles apart two completely different accents. This thing that I love. I've six miles PA five six miles apart I'm not sound as a as a soul of East Lake Who's GonNa very much east. You know him and he's much more whining at as sorry Jimmy, He is so. He's more South East than any go. Yeah, you got different actions. Go just put you that. Some Dauphin xers well so. Our listeners in Dartford will be very upset with you, but yeah canes go a very much under accident so Okay, so Michael Caine in his career and I. Think Zulu was may be his first film appearance, maybe one of his first few. which famously he was cast as an upper class posh officer. What's the date of ill commission? Now don't tell me. I suppose you have seniority. 1872. May. Only because he says. The producer was not British, and had the producer been British. She never would have cast Michael Caine as an upper class officer and also. That roller just gone. He was actually supposed to go for that role. A didn't get a cold I mean these days he missed. The call we mentioned is wrong. You just have to check your wristwatch, shouldn't he? Might Show you get if? You missed the phone coal, but a Tommy turned up. go, he chose to leave. I said well. You don't like a cognate He says company actors got caught me. Potts, an se always says he's a cockney happens to be an answer so. As he was walking white civil, we do have. The left tenants as we call it lieutenant over there across the pond. Aided that rather well mean Julie's had plastic film. He did that coach. Officer I think really well, you know. He was switching away with his is the Russians. Going during his hunting, so yes, oh, he seems to have been. A The casting forget cancer. I can't imagine any other actor apartments Michael, Caine. Being in that role, admittedly in the film and in the book, you're supposed to come from that town, so he doesn't have a heck of a new concept action, but then if you left a young age, you wouldn't do and they all very very to most striking different accents will actually the book is set in a different town. Frant-, the director said it in Newcastle National Service out other really showing off now tend Auburn they on the close in national service and he He on notice that new Costlo was extreme poverty where. There are other parts of Britain London. They'll still going through this soul. Hey, smashing Austin powers many scots. Connie straight. You Know Union Jackson everyone's great and crew improving got Knowles, and it's bedpans and smoke and sky and. Grace is. An coalmining! Different story saw Hajjis wanted to maybe portray that certainly hit the nail on the head and it's. This is so dr of the North. I had to go all the way up the east coast. This isn't the fifty early fifties like cold. Grimsby stuff all the way out to north shields, and so on I see poverty, the likes of which I couldn't believe so when I came to make the film I remembered all of these places, and you look at this city. And you knew this was a place that check cod could possibly have come from. A justified. Impart Impart Jack's character. Incredible shot of and there's amazing photos of Ted Lewis. The author of the novel which get Carter is based, and then of course Michael Caine in the film itself that incredible shot, looking down the road with the apartment flats, which in the far distant background you have, the smoke stacks. I. Don't know if that's in Newcastle. Proper necessarily think is A. Is. An asshole gone everything, the background and everything there so in a white snapshot of time. That will never come back so. so Newcastle. Residents of lucky in a way this a museum pace to their city that will never be able to it some focus just looking at it again I keep thinking. That's the other thing I always thought. The film was in black and what? Washed it. It feels like is that's amazing. WHO's it feels like it's in black and white does next so richie? An Asahi Kobe semi. Off maybe a couple of how much color is in the film piped. Can think of Congress in that may be isn't great. All black and blue the Blue Range Rover whatever that following inning. Somebody Malcolm in there as well on Well though the director in the cinematographer wanted it to feel documentary like which I think placing the film in context in the UK at the time, so it comes out in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy one. and. I think it's interesting that John. Osborne has a very good role in this movie to. Live these days Jack. You get the material is Arkansas. You'll problem Mr Kinnear. Jack Thank you. I. We. Ran. Sometimes I think town just piss off to the Bahamas and at somebody else. Gland catch jacket drink. Is that what is happening in England at the time in Nineteen, seventy one. Where was there always this? Kind of fascination with the east end gangster and. The hard man and this slice of English life or did. Ted Lewis's books this movie. As you say you talked about sort of lad culture embracing this. That's really more of a ninety right when it became very fashionable again and when you think now when you look at Guy Ritchie. I some of those movies, but when you look at a movie like this and you read these Ted Lewis Books. It's like okay. Someone just gave him the blueprint to do this. Really really well that he didn't really come up with, but leaving that aside. Do the movie represent like a shift in any way to put these lives on display and not kind of in A. Condescending I think of the things that the book does really well and that the movie does really well. In doesn't look down or talk down to these characters who have chosen this life, but it also doesn't. Them. Other than. Let's say glorifies a little bit, but you know there's a price to be paid. Certainly the ultimate price not to Spoil Nineteen seventy-one get. Carter but Carter himself is the ultimate price at the end, it's not a life of Glamour and indeed all the Ted Lewis Books and horribly for these characters, so he's not looking at it and saying like Oh wow. Now I think and Cain says those days heroes. Go killed off all characters. Main counts got killed off, but he did on that. Bounce the car system and actually. You're right, actually this certain thing and it's another book a couple of years ago very famous book, and he said it is fascinating. John Pistons the professional vonts. Nevada cry brothers out. An s an amazing book about this the rise in full. Yes, and I saw. Transcend is class because? Neither I dropped by David Beatty with twiggy on It's probably not between. Sex drive's a WHIZ. With, holly with the with actors Terence Stamp said. So I suppose, yes, it's a question that was the beginning of so much more merging of costs culture, but it wasn't far before that's that the famous John. cleese sketched with Ronnie Barker. Rony Kubat where they have three counties I look down on him because I upper class. Up to him because he is operatives. But I looked down on him because he is look though. I'm middle. I know my place. Upper middle lower cost down on him and up to him, and so that that actually is still it was still very much going, and in the notes I think people much more much more sort of what's the word, maybe slightly less respectful than the south. The southeast was way you would get the cost system very much. Because of public schools because of London were, the north is much more cost less I think always has paid. Paid, and that's why people's much do much more accessible, and maybe it's friendlier up there as well the reason that so across system I'm people always say the bus, but the south then southeast dissipate less friendly I. Maybe as soon as you open your mouth, people know where you're from what school you went to probably in high in caps at that, that's why I had to change my voice this Matt militarist example you've got. Another they but they call it in the UK when you have to change your voice for broadcast standard. What's there's a term for the type of why shouldn't. Acution now there was a term. Of. That used to be the east to be What kind of continental elocution or something? Not. Right allocate famously didn't do that as an actor, so yeah I think. I think villains transcended nothing. Yeah, he's up in Newcastle in his Mohawk. three-piece suits, which for the why anti sons up in Newcastle with a briefcase Snell, thinking Kobe's ties to more clothes. Nice I suppose people that did wear things next say we have different culture only. Who that show is GonNa have to change that now especially because he's seen seventy concentrations, but he also handles himself. With a certain upper class, nece in terms of his dress, and how he orders his drinks, and no south thing they that felt like a there's always a certain resentment from the knowles use so the news coming up ahead sat trying to tell us what to do. Use Like I encountered that gun to mentioned the to go look. It was that was. That was a certain chippiness nine. I left it because I like coming up there because all of a sudden. Judge me when you open your mouth. Will you say reform? What is not where it's a nice still see you as a as a posh southern softly in anyone console I'm certainly not that. That's humorless nurse. Right their self deprecating humor so yet. Take Sawyer events about as good as he gets with Kanye East Coast snootiness isn't Disney when he. Goes across the road from the train station. Teams. That probably still there, that's amazing. Avenue Costa said I'm yeah. I mean it looks like and their own extras on night as well. Let's stay mining. Their extras and you can tell their extras. He ought to use that, didn't they? To get now I think came wants you to really realistic failed not just in the no scenes, but also in the fight scenes. He was in the army, so he's probably got a bit of that ABC's Solve A. Hose himself really well when he walks in there, because also he's paranoid as hell, his brother as tiny mysterious circumstances, he's looking around as soon as he steps out of that train thinking right, there's someone round he knows about I don't search for London for an arrogant London and he's cocky London because he's A. He's a bit of a gangster. He will think new council is nothing and I know he thinks that way so that I know he's a cookie Sava and you can tell the extra tools is slightly chippy and night deserves to be that because he's being baragan souls, amas nate he's. More or less an as being a bit so. I'll tell you I was gonNA. Be You know the whole? Going sort of stuff, but the whole way folks spokespeople. Also Mike. Hodges Cast Alun Armstrong as the bartender in that scene and talk about an amazing career that Kinda launched from there, and the reason he cast him, was because he wanted local actors local to be appropriate in that and that scene in the bar. There's two great shots where first of all when Michael Cain walks in. And just the way it's framed. He's in that suit and. It's not so much a working man's bar because there's old couples, it's kind of that pub culture where you have three or four different generations kind of hanging out there, but the documentary like approach is a few great shots of characters. Then never see again, but they're clocking harder. WHO This guy is! What's he doing here? They know he doesn't fit in already in either. They know who he is, or they don't the way they fill not as brilliant and there was a great shot where after cain orders his his Guinness. and. Just like in the book. Such a great deal which I want you to explain to me, he says. A. In a theme Blouse. Snaps his fingers in a thin gloss. What's the difference between a stained glass? Because a total gas? Because what we liked to drink out, which was also younger, trendier glass, which is the so classic pint glass and listeners will not this I'm describing with my hands it up with a leering late against the Guinness pint glass were off from the classic pint glass with the little little. Thing to talk just before the top called. Jr the other is one. The other one is the jug. Soul windows around the side in the big job, which is your? All Man's one year? Old Man is sold smoking syllable. Everyone was smoking they. You smoke in your role up in the corner with yet with the JUG. Those ones because you can hold ones Vigna standing outside. You know with you having a lash the legs Akimbo. To Kim boats, your mates or the by as much easier so hold. Where's the job is so relevant? Heavier. Soil last, so yeah, Yeah, I didn't even think about. Yeah, it was he signed told us not a thin thin in a thinning boss. Nothing else. Attitude, which is such a great detail, and that's in the book that's in Ted Lewis his book, and that's the on such a great example of the kind of minute detail that really makes ted. Lewis books so incredible, and that I think my hodges captured so well in the movie. Is that element which you know in an American film? There would then be someone who would explain that. Why is he wanNA seem glass. It and then some some insular character would give us the explanation you just gave, but I loved it, and they just let it play that way, and then there's the shot where. After he does that an older gentlemen at the Bar, who's who actually now that you mentioned it? He is drinking out of that that glass with the handle and the little windows on it, and he kind of looks askance at Carter and car came just does this visual double take and freezes the guy and the guy immediately goes back to his own business. As you know, he knows not to trifle. because. He's standing there and he sold owning the ball, but. Any not if John. Villain walked in there. He would have his own chair and his own seats are Iza. You can sit in the corner. 'cause. I thought that was a curious bit of constant earlier on. A curious one unheard it so boastful! It's Bay. You, wanted to get a Weisman. Look back in anger, so pigeonholed himself in because I don't know that that one was a curious costing and I'm not sure if it does necessarily work, could just plopped anyone with a bunch voice in there. He probably would have done the job we needed. We needed someone. CD device, someone sadie. Someone lives in someone a little bit and feats or someone a little Louche, which is how he reads in the part. In America, we don't I. Don't know John Osborne I. Don't think of a mass an actor at all I I sort of you know you think of him as a playwright and you know those famous works in you know him as being part of kind of. What do they call it? The kitchen sink movement at the time kind of like elevating the every day into lofty art, but And actually when I watched the movie I'd no idea who that was in the role. I just thought. That's a great little spot a casting there because I thought he exuded. A DANGEROUS looseness and then come to find out reading about John. Osborne's just messy complicated five marriage disastrous personal life. It makes a Lotta sense why he would be cast their because I think even at this point in nineteen seventy one he probably already been married three or four times, and was known as a character of. Questionable morals and. was. Probably a bit of stunt casting at the time. Maybe but we were talking about CAIN and When he when he arrives, and not hold so element of. Coming to this area of? Of realism of Knowles. unrealism wins from from and I. Think you're. Going to ask you, do you think not amount of my depth de Paul? Greengross always likes to use those of extras, and I'm wondering whether there's something there as well amount of my dad's a little bit, but the way they're real real lacking in place Sunday where he uses real They add something in Oh. Stephen without trying the best shop seen as well you going there. Who is most probably? Not He looks very much like an extra or a normal mother. An extra, so yeah, right? Anyway I think Paul Greengrass is a great. connective director to what Mike Hodges did in this movie in fact in our. Our episode about the Big Lebowski Guest Michael. Tournus was in. Captain Phillips! The Paul Greengrass film about this molly pirates. And to your point. He said that the style that greengrass worked in. was very similar to sounds like what my cautious was into here. I think just came out of a documentary background at this point in his career. He hadn't yet made the atrocity of Flash Gordon, so he's he's still somewhat artistically pure at this point, but coming out of the documentary background, and then greengrass his approach on Captain Phillips was to actually have the actors undergo the training required to perform the jobs on merchant marine. And then basically give them the scenarios with some of the beats that had to happen and just have them do it and the and and and Michael Turner said it was be a little disconcerting when you're used to the normal way of filmmaking where it's like. You know he said at one point like Tom Hanks SORTA. When is it when my shot coming? What's my close up? When do I get asked and that's not how he was filming it. and. It feels like this movie is shot very similarly to that where the details I think after he leaves the pub and then when he goes to his brother's. Apartment, the walls the light switch is. The. It's just an incredible location. Is So boxy for me. Growing up as well 'cause we had honors sold to pay the rents pay, moyes. We had lodges. And does last switches account the bike lights, the soul of yellowing walls disdain mattresses. The Soviet can smell the film minute. You know the the of smoke everywhere. That was am bedpans and it just that the the bed and breakfast place that goes into you know you can tell how unimpressed acid in the the the arrogance that he has in the that attitude landlady has to him and the moment he comes in here. You know with his with his high flew in southern ways, yes. And it's called. Las Vegas. It's got. It's got the electric light sign. I always like you know a big anglophile. I think we've talked in the past. All of the DVD series that I worked through light switches. That's a big I realize like when I watch the classic car as The smile as the. Tinker tailor the original tinker tailor. There's something about those. UK, light switches in that, and in Rumpole of the Bailey Ages in other series I've just binged crazily for like a year and watched all of. There's something about the those flats, the the the type of The way you turn on and off the lights is almost instantaneously class signifier. Yes, and also the Lai wouldn't come on absolutely straight solve It wouldn't be straight away with BS so the below bus just before will. COME UP UNABLE BIG disappointingly dim as well whenever I saw one hundred Watt Bulb gag science. Even kids the wow, look at that. We can have proper lights in A. Way The way those What would you call that row that his brother's apartment is in those with those last? The tears. Of industrial northern cities, so Newcastle was one of the industrial powerhouses because of shipbuilding, and because of coal, and soon after that that's why it's a museum pieces snapshot because soon off to that. That was so cold, urban generational urban degeneration Wa. The the loss of coal mines knows bake sort of older, the strikes in the eighties. A new council did actually has to send extent regenerates. Across Gateshead in Newcastle you've now. Is Hospitality Industry The carmaking making? As well, which came into the area, but it's still fail for it, and I think come even the announced a. it's never going to be. Anything a fairly tax, deprived area, but whole swathe across from west to a Of? Industrial cities the industrial houses of the of the Knowles. Catch you know the so-called British Empire going you know through everything so at that time signed with the bridges. You know it's much quieter now, but you can see in the film. The amount of of ships and Congo going underneath the new council on underneath the bridge is. It was imposed as it was a busy busy pool in. The final saying they are at. That's cold. That's all about feeding feeding industry so many assign many. Allegorical those little symbols in there, aren't they? Can Thinking I'm like disappearing down as a my thinking about is too much. You know all I think it's completely intentional knowing the having a fight and they're on more than. when Henry and of having the They'RE GONNA! Slack! Aid! As a Slang Cape Is. Is that so chipper. Find a slag heap of. Arm Really disappearing your also now ut Wanka, but still you might, but it might be. It might be a case of these low lifes, these scumbags. Audience dumped into the ocean with the detriments of the mining. That's probably also destroying the community at the same time. Is. It's scarring the landscape. Exhibits Coal Mining. It was essential that was it builds old. Is Towns allies communities? It was essentially when those friendly loving caring communities I mean. That's what that's what you get. A little bit is despite a haunt ship. In that region. They had real sounds Cliche, but the heart of gold, and they always say that region of England is so friendly and I'm show line coach. He's got that when he was going up down. During during his military service in the area, I'm sure he found Newcastle being a friendly place because you know they're a tough place, but they're very friendly will decide and also one of the things that's changed from the Ted Lewis Book is when when Carter goes to his brother's flat in the book. It's. It's much. It's Nita's pen. It's much less downmarket. Portrayed in the movie and I think that's probably a change. Because okay for going to be set in Newcastle who would who would his brother have been in? How would he have lived? I think they followed the realism of the choices that they made in resetting the location of the events of the novel, but in the book is brothers, apartment and his room is used to contrast the life of the brother with the with the life that Carter chose and so. The neatness, the furniture, the kind of almost military like cleanliness of the apartment is something that Carter very touchingly. Walks through and it's. It's there in the book that we get the story of how the brothers once so close in that shotgun is the is the device which is used in the book, and in the movie to illustrate that the initials carved on the stock both of their initials, and they were boys. They secretive the gun, and they went and ran away to the countryside in would shoot it, and they were they were brothers in. They were very very close, but then of course Carter chooses this life, and his brother was always morally upstanding and in the book that's much more fleshed out and much more a profound difference and also. A little, they they they glance at it in the movie with one line, but in the book it's it's a major story point that. Michael, Caines character may be the father of the daughter, not French the brother. And that's a whole. That's a very big part of the books kind of engine and in here. I think there's just one moment where someone's. And he yells it at at Carter. As approvals. It has an accusation and it's kind of just left there. You don't really get into its. I'm always interested when you when you. It's very rare that you have an amazing book. An amazing movie that are different, but both great in their own way, and this is an example of that. Because I was really blown away a huge crime fiction guy, but I had missed Ted Lewis Somehow I do miss that also you also think that Frank I've I've so. Don't think of him has been outstanding, not having read the books. But what's the film few times you saw state note frank is involved in something. You know he's not so. He's got some involvement on the dockside a little bit, so he's he's no not as menacing or is. A state in in crime as as. As kinds characterize. E So so me ended book maybe. Outlines much more of a difference between a contrast. I suppose it does, and it's Yeah, then frank is not at all, played that way in the book he's. He's A. Point it's a point storyline. That I actually would have, but I can see why. You don't do it in the movie because. You'd have to have children actors you'd have to you know they'd have to be good enough to plausibly play the relationship and the separation. It's a different type of a movie and I I can see what hodges did the other thing. That's impressive looking at the movie now. Is the image of the movie in Popular Culture? Now is that it's ultra violent. A CRAZY PULL! No punches ultra violent. Fast of blood didn't exploding brains. Not until you get to the very end, I mean it's the living definition of the slow-burn. Oh, yeah, I know so the the fight scenes close up unrealistic and you can solve. You can head, and he sold O K, so slap. Anything last CNS good on its. Some, Scotland sold saving private. Ryan way is face to face von. They will last right. Nice, but they none a yeah. It's funny what you said about. Originally I actually broke down some of the reviews at the time. and. It says this is the London Evening News. She's no longer around a revolting, bestial, horribly vaunted piece of cinema. L. I mean. What would I make films now? That particular John. And then other. Other critics lineups to take potshots at the film's unremitting bleakness in brutality, so Blimey, I mean it's not exactly just opium as I mean for all of its blatantness and it says here this is George, many a jazz musician, and also writing in the Observer, about as pleasant as a bottle of niche swallowed before breakfast. Wish actually is goes a rave review then. She Arabia. It'd be I. Think it was a slow burn. It was it became trendy. And it's funny. How many sorry I'm going off topic Beth? How many times do you get people so of one or told to Kane about his best films and I've found is quite a few times. Even seen as his top five or top ten or no cane, so other people knew how can be in his top five. Raise, it has to be, it's probably. I'm sure we'll talk about that. Lights says she has a low back chain himself. Bloody Hell Atlas as Kerman said you know this was just made for McCain. You know and he's got. He's never been as evil or as well cost, or is AJ yen? It's too bad that he He didn't get to play the character again I was thinking even now would be an amazing film. of course he dies at the answer. I guess he can't do it. You'd have have a little magical realism, but had the character lived. It would have been. Especially, if you've sold sold, may be game of thrones. Time seeing you could have had those white crushing them. They could have Alexia. That would have just saved deans who is a bit like Jon snow, going to seek Dentsu him and then then. That task. Reveal it probably wouldn't have been as Rabin had there been a second one now. In the UK that. The sly stallone version wasn't even released over here. Thank God I. Haven't seen it I've I'm going to do everyone the favor of not watching that I. Don't think there's any reason to go there. I can't I mean I. Get you know what the best that can be said about that without having seen the movie, but just presuming that it's awful, is that if sly stallone was such a big Fan of either the? The book or the movie that he used his power to remake it and start himself great as vanity vehicle I hope that's the case I hope it was out of his genuine love for the film in the book that he wanted to do it. And then, and in that case I'll give them a total pass if it's just like crass business thing that somebody was like. Hey, let's remake that with sly stallone. Things happened this story. You know we. Made a mistake sweet. Fall down. Kidding the trouble happened everybody. Does. But. It doesn't mean everything happy. Yesterday has to happen every day. WanNa. Do like spend your whole life looking backwards. I will I will I will never see that. There's no going to see that. If you do thirty thousand of these podcasts, maybe it might. It might come up you, might still she? You know what we haven't done debris of county. You know when you realized doing this Paul is that there are some movies. It's just not worth it. It's not worth your time to spend an hour talking about them, and it's not worth it to put all the time and effort into editing it to release it, and that's usually. It's funny to do a bad movie, and then you're sitting there. Watching this movie and you go at my God I have to sit through this well. One of my favorite times is actually. Doing An. Impersonation everyone knows, but in someone else's accident, so forgive me for butchering sly stallone. all your list of do. is on your big man. ME, do. Not Sorry that's bad, isn't it doesn't quite work I don't like it. Let's Talk Bush's way in and out of my house in the middle of the night. Tell me. Big Magic bag shape. Mates a fulltime job now behind yourself. Right. Not Mrs Founding. Such a great line. That's an incredible I. Mean we as brains, my mates, we use this so much. We must nine all the time about everything you know, so. I got the quite wrong. I've been saying. A Big Shape onto living, it's not quite right this is it's actually your a big man, but you're out of shape me. Do reliving right. Different Pick magic bad shape. May full-time job now, the either show. So we? Do It as a joke all the time now, so if you're having a baby, wrestle with the might just say you got custody say. Big Man pure shape onto living and will. Also, pop culture play tricks on US 'cause. I watched it as a kid had watched it for a while. Is that you sold think? Why does two alphabets who? Genial Sorry out raw. The carriage is Brumby, but he'd made Brumby the answer. plays out fraud. It's incarnation straight was the most character. In the Britain longest appropriate. Talk on about. Christmas you don't come to do like this staff. Leasing practice. A CHARITY! Eight. You'd be to. Not His plummeting is come up on. To Chart I'm. Not Pay me. Not. Kill yourself eight yourself. That's if I could you. Plays in the local shop, and for God's sake. What Michael Cain does is he throws? Sound from this over the top of the multi storey carpark can kills him. And Wade -Ly Altro. Asari Click on before in a very lifeless way but I'll see the stuntman in him was used to just falling on his head draws than using his own, but wait at that point. was He already on the soap? He won't say so time, so it wasn't a regular, but he was in their coronation street. Fans will kill me now to get that wrong well like in, but in a way. Isn't that kind of part of what the movie's about which is saying? Everything you think you love and Adore about British society is bullshit and I mean you can't have a A. You can't have a more delicate metaphor than Michael Cain, physically throwing the guy off a car park and to his horrific deaths below like part of what we're doing in the book and in the movie a little bit. Yet. Another year, right is another symbolic sane as opposed. Yeah, I think I think the lesson that we should learn from that same in among story. COP, his, building Higher because otherwise anyone can just trust anyone off the edge some low. If I was. If I was cliff, Brumby I would have said. Asfour off the edge of the. Too late you know he just goes to easily. I think I think the point of the scene Paul is that cliff is trying to put on airs with this ridiculous concept for a for a restaurant in the sky, and the repudiation of that is just picking him up by his lapels in his fancy suit with his two architects is Dan defied architects in waiting and just throwing the guy's body off the top I mean that is the north. Isn't it darkly funniest funny? You asked about British cost system there as the two. And you're right, sorry. I missed it brumbies trying to be sort of keeping up appearances. No that Sitcom Yup eastbound's bill sort of. Like airs, I'm not I could be the manner of this place soon in a right, and he's the guy who is. But. That's the hospitality industry events she does. Not. Say, it. Was You know the story about this, but that was? That was a protected building until they demolished it ten years ago. While less than so they wanted to keep it but I had to go it was a baby monstrosity over Prince Charles Cooler aqap uncle amongst oncle. Okay, so speaking of the class system and the north and accents I'm gonNA throw a complete wildcard. You my family and I over last several years. have been obsessed with the great British. Bake off. Okay and many of the contestants and their accents are clearly from the north. Why is that is there? Is there something to do with the friendliness that you're talking about, or is it a little bit more like? Is it kind of condescending in a way where it's like. Oh, here are the charming northerners and their accents like I don't hear a lot of east or South London accents in the contestants on the show, so when it gets to like casting British reality TV. How does it class system come into that? If at all you're, you're right. There is a lot more of it, and that's channel four, probably being being more inclusive if I'm honest and now if you've noticed. You know now when they're on announces on TV. In the UK this way more regional accents, a news rate is way more reason license so now. A she is up in Manchester, now child four's moved to Leeds, as we just have become more inclusive so rather than having a load of wine company. People like myself actions moved out and remember. You only have to go about. Seventy or eighty miles and people's voices do sounds a lot different, even seventy thousand miles, so you can. Go to the Midland's eighteen hundred. Do a good agricultural accent for me. That's my favorite while know because you could go out West Light. Go to Bristol Talking which is why he's so funny when people from. Point brain was funny because he's got so rural, so if not our thing at the end, so it's funny. People laugh at it and the bosses. Panicking, they're going. Oh, cutback, loose staff. You know that's the way forward that saves money will. Yeah who's to say that you know hiring staff went side money in the long run. Does a struggling soundman stopped turning up on a bicycle car perception. They trust me I'm taking these guys into battle and I'm doing my own stapling. Sergeant major spends all his time training his men to be killers. He doesn't Polish his own boots. You Bobby does votes, but you know. It doesn't mean. It doesn't mean have to do mind finding. And then you've got a comedy. IV hand cooled this country. which is sold pool white. Folks from Swindon. People need to pay the price for the by things they've done. We'll just keep doing them. Bring justice system. That's why I say. Out over from country. Some of our leading supermarkets horsemeat in their pice. Thousand, France before, but we're not in France when you. K- okay. And, they've got sold funny like that. They took a is quite not when I say overseas a gain of murder, but if you. Got To maitland's this. Nice little, and then you go on this people who can do it, and then you go up to Manchester Alright Flynn. The Galahad brothers affirmative. I. Is Smart. And sexy miles scenarios notable then. Exit jobs don't take the loyal scouts. On Scandinavian because I thought Thirty miles from unidentified katyal much. I sucked tractions across the pennines to leads. Which is you know? I know I like I like line Yamashita. Again you, there's West Yorkshire sounds. My say someone. He's not sure shotgun. No, no, I'm not on championship very different accents and he got fed up the one. Palestine into know someone's, which is where you got some Middlesbrough new cost up there. Those accidents and I'm not even GONNA TRY Boston why I'm on which is the Newcastle, Saint? Within Newcastle. Would you have strata of accents depending on class? Oh. No, no, you raise! Everyone has a Newcastle accident. That's a really good question, isn't it? And this is act on even com novel, Y- because those two guys at the top of. Those two guys you know. Architects then just post southern boys, and if you go. You just call Osh. People know it, but it's not a regional accent. It's just Washington, so of course Jackson doesn't have a region it just it just is push and it's just donald down the regional variation, so you could be someone posture Manchester just pronounced his his boss like bath You're still push right. So is just. So, yes, someone will know because you've pronounced your words a bit better, and you haven't let things like in Bristol people analogy ended woods weirdly say. Are you from the area. Are you from the everyone? Aerial Just thinking of not done a very good job of Bristol accident. Awful. Then it work. WHY DO THEY UP Pearl Company? Pearl. Parole. Lets. You, talking Bristle nude this. You can say whatever your life, but you. You'd be impressed, so you told funny. You put an L. on the. You said up Rou- up her. Any no bro. Prima Donna off the Coral Rozov Opera Company. You said pre McDonnell. PREMADONNA, it Donald Donald there's no no L. on the end of IT I. Speak. Your speech never changed on into a miracle for five years now when he comes home and East hills speaks personal. People used to travel was well. People never used to travel that much. I didn't. The less people travels on hundred and fifty two hundred years ago. The mold accents became entrenched, and if you go to other countries, you guys want, you can pick up. An accident is twenty miles away. It's totally different from I. Don't know whether it's assignment. probably knows much. My my wife and I were traveling once in Scotland, and we had we were there for a week or two weeks. We planned on doing what Americans do. which is driving a vast distance to just? Be in the car for five hours to visit somewhere else and I remember. Talking to someone at a hotel we were staying at. We were telling them that our plan was to. Take a day trip. You know like two and a half hours. Three hours away spend the day there and dry back. He's like. You can't do that. For Him. That was the equivalent of like. You would never go that far. You would never get in a car and drive three hours, and if you did do that, you would certainly stay for several days if not a week. And It was just cannot fathom that we would drive that far within a day. We wager we went for Dr Once when I was a kid, and that was a long time ago and we drove for about. Forty five minutes to an hour, and my dad has directions, and it was somewhere out near red, and I had a different action. That crop had a different action. I was thinking Jesus. Swear Alway. Rolling down though he minutes okay not rolling down the window. You know excuse me. Do you know where or no? You're rich? You Far? No! Jesus Christ I love. I love the fact that. Extra! English hasn't spread to fall. They all sound a bit line myself It's really loudly when you go east or West though South Sydney Knowles wife in the capsule very quickly, you will get. Proper, variations and sprint in. It's pretty near Long. Survives okay so another recent obsession of mine I would like you to give me. You mentioned Yorkshire. How does your selection of your t come into? British society in this manner, so for example I gave up coffee in January, and I switched to tea, and I've never looked back. It's been phenomenal and part of the fun of it. As you know I like to go down rabbit holes to get heavily involved in the minutia. As someone recently said in a film we were doing. I like things where you have to do the work in order to get the reward right so i. don't want to just go to the store and buy like Tetley or within you know. I WanNa find out what are the? What are the TS to get so I had post on facebook wants saying like t people. I'm into I'm getting into. What's my brand? What am I drinking here? Because I just picked up a box of berries. Which is an Irish T.? O. Varies Yariel I posted. The picture of the box of berries and I said this is phenomenal I love this and prior to that I drank pg tips and when I tell you this, this simple post sparked so much consternation amongst loyalists to various brands of tease it phenomenal and Some people were like. Are you crazy? You cannot drink anything other than PG tips. Other people say you gotTa Go Yorkshire. Gold you've gotTA do Mary's Red Berries Green. Why is this such a thing? Well I mean listen I really love along question, but it was so vic- drink tea on the bus with any Irish genes. That doesn't drink. On a nation that just drew t round the crown. How did that happen? Why not think he's I'm slightly hyper as you can probably tell. Must Take. You don't drink coffee either. Why have a coach of I turned into a rabbit base of twenty six hours. So you know, I'm out either one person. Say This question for you and don't even know anything about it. To do so talk about it, though even though you don't consume it, I talk about the fact that my wife is. If we have someone L. Great, it'd be nice. You've just might my folks. You know my mom that it's great. It would be like nothing else. Would they ever get offended by seven in the wrong way? See at Barry's. He is the number one so I love your soul of working cuss oil. Yo-yo Chitty is as well, but then a lot of people. As not site. You almost have many now would say done you. You'll builders in your people breakfast as well so bill to say so whenever we have someone. If! You have a tradesman, a window cleaner or someone getting WHO's? Somebody's. Taking bins out Giannakou tape. You would serve them a PG tips. Because then it's easy. You just know that ship poke standard. Thirteen hundred sixty fourteen amount to the cane is driving in the car. We used to have exactly that model. That's just so working men, so you'll see your classless just anything. Everyone's going to be fine with that. Is You PG tips? But if you WanNa, impress me, you do maybe Barry's orbiting respect the orbit of elk right, but Auburn has done Osman's gains anymore. Camels of the else. Sorry, it's brilliant. I think our colleague. told me once. Oh. No, you have to drink Yorkshire Gold. It's a proper builder's tea, which has an American isn't. What does that mean? I assume that means someone who has to go out and perform work. All Day needs a vigorous Hardy Cup of tea. Served in. Chips model with the AM. Yeah, themed us now in a thing, think within law in a thin gloss. The way came. I diverted you I just wanted to I went down that rabbit hole with you on. The other quotes about your big man while the other ones in that. Show on a never hear that never hear that expression anymore. Sean is just not. It's just not insulting enough. Where does he say that in? Got No. He's just telling someone to keep. Keep going and stop bothering him basically. Guys come in. Come into him. Yes, guys come into the room when he's a shaggy ladies civil and he's made when they come in and George Joel by the way you'll notice. file wall lived in Vice. He has a said carrots name on our good. It's just What's the couch Joe is is lived in face. He went on. To be a main character, not amazing. TV Series Space Nineteen Ninety nine. Oh, yes, I love that. Gary Anderson is nothing else, and any also did a Lotta cop shows. He was always either saw but then he starts a tight cops a lot more because he's Bevan honest sort of grim. There's a certain thing in in British acting where. and Alan is described this way as well. It seems appropriate for a certain type of actor to be described as pockmarked and George. Georgia will is described as pockmarked as his Allen Anthony. Not on the on an Armstrong Armstrong, good northeast name. court shows as Londoner. Yet still is yeah on strongest from the region of state, and that's how you mentioned earlier is isn't it great 'cause? I was expecting some really dodgy Jodi. Jodi is from Newcastle Right I was expecting some really. Don't you Jodi accents? Watching again about ten fifteen years ago. You don't get that. You don't get that. These people on putting it on the Rio and that's again so good. Because even now you'll get people. Act as a so good especially. British actors now going out going to the US doing American action. Sometimes, you don't even know the. National today up so. That's good in that film. They've all got the. The accidents and Armstrong Coast Africans are nosy, went onto, which was a big big TV series and he. You know announced. Ship New Console TV show lasted for him. I. Remember America when the wire was really big. we were all shocked that Idris. Elba was British. Snow a new because. It, was a little bit wasn't quite the oversaturation of knowing everything about everyone. That's in a show like that at that time. And I remember I think. I remember going to a QNA at the Museum of Television and radio on which he was either a panelist or video, and I remember the there was a shock that went through this hundred person audience. Joking is, is he? Is he putting on? Is this a bit and they're like he's English. He's pretty British. no-one knew goes. See was just show brilliantly dean into his role in the wire, whereas donate west of the other hands, dot com, exactly yes, bessette through the series, but at the beginning of. A little spotty in the beginning. Is when it's. Sueno, acts have use the corner that amounts to to get in trouble. Yeah, involved hoskins was so. You know had he been around now. He's American actions who to believe a lot basic. It'd be a what year was the long Good Friday because that was one. We consider doing I wonder how yeah seventy seven. So God it's amazing. How influential! This movie was then seventy nine, but it didn't come out until I think eighty, nine, hundred, eighty, nine thousand ACA under Yank is crazy. That's an amazing movie man, but you know what I think. Get Carter is more of the long Good Friday is so operatic and insane and brilliant. Is That's a different thing, but this is so. It's unadorned. Talkative and timely and the this is. An atmosphere this. Does is wreaking atmosphere, so it is raking atmosphere, and it's not just reading a atmosphere in the way that we're not looking back on the atmosphere, and it's sort of so bad. It's good. It's legit atmosphere, and it's legitimate authenticity. And Jason. What gives it. The atmosphere won't give the. House is the. Stat same June from the very beginning. Bird. If you hear it now, I think smoke. I think of billiard tables you think of the sounded two bulls mate, when the in table you think of people gone seeing often sold nfl out. Scorch the BAA is got. That is GONNA jazz sound to it, but Mike Goats. Just an easy reeks as one of it, doesn't it so about the cop is thinking when you walk in the line is low. You know what's interesting to me about that song. It's got Taba drums behind it, so it has this kind of this this jazz kind of soul funk. Theme. But, then it's got these tableaux drums which I think is also to me I. Think of like okay England is now becoming more of a multicultural society as we get into the seventy, s and beyond may be. Consciously or unconsciously? That's part of kind of because I. think that this movie is also about the change. That's coming the change that has occurred in the world. We ought to say that you know. The sixties didn't just end in the sixties like in one, thousand, nine, hundred seventy one. It's still the sixties, but if you just have a snapshot. That wouldn't be real whereas right now. John Wall who was in a band with with John Lydon, a job mobile agent a couple of it again. He did it. I've I'm not sure he said. The whole mystery of creation is contained within it. Wow and so and it was covered by maniacal. This may reminded me said. Will you go a home? The cover of? Human League there. Aw, yeah, on death, so they Very minimalist version is very SPA Those British drums use scribe from from that region. See that's the other thing is without getting too excited. Because this this goes into my whole British social history under the industry degrees of always one I. always want to bend conversation tools. Buck. Sheffield sounds as human league in from Sheffield. Just down the one bit a forgive my geography is. Is is in Yorkshire. I'm really yeah banned. From the WHO from that, so he's haven't seventeen see spit from that cabaret. Volts had a ABC lots of other bands on monkeys, but as a certain industrial sound. The Human League has because of the state industry there. Isn't industrial look to get copies of the bridges and you know the coal mining industry in steel everywhere. There is no snow. There is a working manding industry so I. Think you know to be fast as human. They figured that one out, and that was a nineteen icy as well when that came out. I. Don't think it will so stereolab. I've. Much more jazzy version so a French. French version of Prophet. If you like not a few more battles that they don't so. Film close and respected in honor it and and understand that it represents more than just this launching of Britain. Warr, crime, fiction and films, but that it's. It's that embrace of a life that people are probably only one or two generations removed from. Yet but that I think. That's right, I mean. The Dust Revolution was. I was really so of eighteen hundred just eighteen hundreds, and he just kept going and going and going old white through Victorian all through the nineteenth century. It was a powerhouse in so these cities you know those terrorists houses there, but a lot is terraced houses all sit around in Birmingham. Manchester London definitely the batch of they called in certain places may even places. You can tell where I'm the best thing shop wear. wear A. Yeah Yeah see that's in the yard at the back. That was the biggest people's gardens. Would God knows Satyam in only white. House so so I think yet again. The music brings out whenever we think about the film whenever I think I think about that track I think. Because it really is in Michigan it. It's. It's smokiness, isn't it? Right. What else do we need to discuss on? Get Carter. Wow that was she was a lucky break. She was really down a lot, wasn't she? So? She just picked up this job. She didn't really WANNA. Take off and I. Think you wouldn't have been in commend if it wasn't for is filled. Talk about movie. We should do on the podcasts yet. I'll just thinking that. My brother reminded me. He said you're going to do this of. Fun Sexy. You're right, probably have to that the British Clinton phone. Sex scene is still pretty Raunchy and erotic for a film of today's time really can't even imagine it coming out in Nineteen seventy-one in the UK that seems right, it's I had sons in game of thrones. That would've that would have been one of the role in chiseling. So she was in, let's say well. She goes back to the sixty S, but those are all just little. She needed that she needed not film. and. That leads to her. Yeah, let's she. She married sellers and sixty four. Oh, gre over by then I believe. Sixty eight, and then she had a son two years after this movie with Lou, Adler. You is American record producer and Los Angeles Lakers courtside omnipresence. says. She was moving up in wealth. She's quite good. The women actually uniformly in the film are pretty good and actually given more. Gaps and character than you would expect in a gangster film of this type this still not let's face. It is still not really well drawn other that still I mean. They're pretty badly treated on a on the whole in the field I'm like unless I've missed something so. Blindly you know it's pretty tough the way they trades. But the obvious, they're allowed complexity though I mean she's allowed the complexity to be in this relationship that with Michael, Caines character is clearly founded on something real relationships with women as well cain supposedly based this character on a real gangster and Allison Council. Who is mentioned cannot. Discuss at as he called it, yeah. You know SORTA fill y'all think of it well. I'm not married. If it is based on mate, I, so yeah. It was based near, so we will married. He said why we just way just gave us. Respectability was saying earlier about across system. You know this is keeps you respect to as well the marriage thing Marion quite well. You know As as as you say of his time Dolly Birds. They had to have the VIZOR. Their melania trump. In the mocking society. Gone. Yeah, so so I think gangs to you. What is crap? That, what as well I think someone describes new kosters a crack house in other words you don't really know. Cut some. Many on is chasing author Henry's. You wouldn't win. It can spoon rice against spoon. No I don't all right and. I think it spoon raciest. What you have a case schools. While no spoon in front of you, put an egg on it and you gotta run as fast as possible only out spoon with the ANC on not dropping the egg so so he's belittling those about to murder him. He's belittling him. you know any winning mode him as well? He's just a smile on his face. So S why I love the malevolence. Now wish he'd done more a night. He does tweet with being able in in films fog. Wish she'd done a few more on this because he just said it was made for him by could've done. Down to Ted Lewis. That's all in the book. That's the that's Jane that Ted Lewis was such A. going on Ted Lewis, rabbit hole and there's there's a book that's out in the UK right now. That's all about him, but you can't get it here. In the states yet until September but I think there's GonNa be a little bit of a resurgence of interest. Ted Lewis as a writer because. One of the things that so saturated throughout the books, basically, all of the characters sort of references are used through musical references to give a sense of place and time and all of the humor that's in the book and all of the insults to your point. Are also frequently used to indicate a place to class and all the characters in the book kind of insult, each other in various ways that tell us about who they're supposed to be. The ability of understatement to the two architects talking to each other. You know the understatement they use when they hear. brumbies body hit the car. Don't know is an. Funny Lines probably. Glued to disappear that. When any possibly be! I have an awful feeling. We're not going to get off cheese. No interesting for me, but interesting maybe for a US listeners. Yeah, how is that all about as stupid constant down because I'm to seeped in it, you don't realize but yeah I. Suppose it's the insults. They would be different insults because of a because of where they're from what school I went to you know who, in that, some Austria for wall in Australia people that ask you. What do you do the second question? Over here, people still say so. What do you do you do and then the next question? Where did you go to school? I was trying to avoid those. As developing a sense of humor, because if he'd done, I will ask you guys questions, but yeah. There along with along with actually how much people smoke? I mean my God. Am I? Know How many banks with sorry I'm using the word facts Sunday. Rain is cigarettes cigarettes. Yes, but some. Yeah, we call them finger multi national podcasts. People know that you mean cigarettes. Don't worry about Emma. Health and safety. On the side of that. No, you must have smoking. Bet It's very bad. If you calls, and then you have a public information phone with a man with a Pencil Masan. Saying smoking in bed is ready badly. Because fires bias can be L. Streets winning down, but did you know what lung cancer looks like? This was a fancy. Sort of basically. Because the tolerance so thin the cigarette smoke. The whites the chin. The concept. In sixteen money out his cigarette. Same lanes is me. It made him look. Over about lung cancer, and of course the united, Saturday, when that's almost might sound twenty five years since the end of the Second World War you know there all still a new Casa was bones, but you know not on the. Stats, but you shoot yawns and they would definitely be nonstop at home the moon. Everyone else so but you know there's this memory there the war, so they would have had bones dropping. Michael Cain now is I. Think Eighty seven eighty. Wall yet when I was doing some research, I was thinking Oh man it's. That's GONNA be. That's going to be a sad a sad and terrible day. Hope it doesn't come anytime soon. I hope he stays very safe insecure. I just saw an interview that he did. From interview, magazine that I think had taken place during the pandemic, and when I saw that I thought Oh, he'd better stay inside man, maybe not taking any. I'll show because I. I don't want to have to do the impression off mission a shy Sean. Not sure well I'm hearing of the moment. Please get well. It's you're listening Sean. You and Michael Owen she on the Golkar Roemer Rooney Television. Sorry about that by. Anyway watching bits of the man who would be king the other day. Yes, yeah, you're right, I mean might God that would be a dockside. But you know listen a life well lived. The Guy made every movie. You could make and about two hundred more so. And and the will wasn't as good. I can't do it. All I can do is rice on Brown Fails are still is a little piece of. Pop Culture being removed every time. Someone not naive. It's a little bit of your childhood broken off in falling into the sea, but he was in long geese move. That's more, isn't it? I? Think Yeezy wild geese keeps coming up at the came up. I think it must have come up doing the James Bond movie podcast, which took great umbrage to apparently as Long. Your S I guess i. Because I just don't mix up. Actually I think this comes to the English. I don't think Brits. Have ever been able to accept in Australia's James Bond. That's at the root of your dislike for George Lazenby, well I mean he's an ice cream and ice cream model. I mean never respects now. Sorry, mantra spent because it's my favorite bond film listen. It was secretly my favorite bunting for years, but with my mates you can never not have. Connery is your favorite right of course bad form generations underneath now now saying well, no joy is outside. is fiber on, so nobody says that the. They because we all WanNa. Wear. We WanNA WEAR THEM A. cocky SUV only one suits or or bubbles, so we all went away those because we. But. Lazenby was yet a script. He had the best Film Bay wasn't a best actress at the time. He would have been I. don't go down this rabbit hole with you. On. Minority though Michael Cain. Is One of those guys who is both a superstar, a movie star and an actor. Of the highest quality and he's type of he has the type of imdb page that on the podcast. We like to give our highest praise for what we call a working actor, which is not always somebody necessarily that you know right off the bat, but like an Alun Armstrong is is the definition of a brilliant working actor who's not a star per se. But he's someone who's probably GonNa have a hundred and forty eight film credits by the time has done Michael Cain must have over two hundred came to imagine what they must be. But? You know, so. He He says you know I never thought I'd be. I didn't want to be rich and famous because I knew I never was. Never based so that's probably why it came from a background known was a cleaner is Dan. Porter I think he's kept that, and he says he always tips clean as twenty dollars, you know. I always mickle light. I love that his name is Maurice Great. I wish he had changed it back. No, yeah, what is more swiped, wasn't it? And then he realized the It realized it was already wanting to change his name sewing so Michael. White's yes. There already was one i. think in Nicosia Person. SHOULD YOU BE Michael White has already Michael why? Down the window, and so the film posted for K. Megyn a yeah, and how what was his favorite actor, so he's a Michael Caine. The Ninety, two hundred and seventy one film credits, which is downing. May Not many bad films he. I know, but he self deprecates I'm seeing the hand. Nobody gets steak. Fa Josie Jaws Three. He's the enjoys. I haven't seen. Joe's is based on the enjoys to for ten minutes or pause to say famously. Have you seen? No, but I see the swimming pool at bought every day. But I think he's so self. Deprecating people think of him as a stop. They remain him because he doesn't respond to being reveres he wants to be a normal into. I think he's revered. He's absolutely revered us. You're not, but he doesn't want to be so. He, he He's just cool. What is cool? He has he and he didn't lose. He retained. That thing from where he's from that I think speaking of the class system. He's he's not the type of British film star who forgot where he came from, he was actually fortunate, enough smart, enough lucky enough to be able to make that to retain that as as part of who he always was on screen. And I think in doing so. He keeps him grounded in something he never would. He never would put on airs in that way. He would never tried to be something. He's not even though his profession is to be something he's not. Dis Dis a company thing, which is the thing from all cities. I think if you're if you're working cost person from the city, you'll always have this You Know Charm. He's got that. self-effacing Chom so that so that there is people around him if He says when he goes out for. Dinner People. He just has a good laugh about stories about all of these acting stories and I think national. That's what gave him his. You know. People Line Kim from the beginning, and also it does always Seder. Whenever I'm in a difficult situation. He says I always think about non nothing was more difficult than being charged on by a Mad North Koreans or Chinese soldiers. Removed when he fought hand-to-hand. With a bayonet. Scars Sandy said he smelled the garlic on their breasts when he was trying to evade capture when they're on a night patrol because. You wouldn't yeah. You're not really He says he never faced anything. He said sometimes he was looking forward to a good bollocking buying at by Director. He said even. He. Said what he say. Joan Houston sets him Because much Houston would end up being sean connery, which is no bad thing. Give an excuse to can't. You can't do an American accent? That's the problem ray. Sorry, but John Houston said. When he was doing a matter what became, he said he was from Iraq. We don't tend to me anything. He said well. Those does anyone comment. You just said speed up, he said. Speak Quick. On, his people's told Fosse on, agree not one for you. Paul. I'll save you with this tidbit. Michael Cain is one of only two actors nominated for an Academy Award for acting in every decade from the sixties to the two thousands. Can you name the other actor? Every decade from nineteen, sixty, two, the two thousands. Michael Cain has been nominated for an academy award for acting. There's only one other actor that's true for who is. Without the to the two thousands. To the two thousand. Nicholson. Yes it would be Jack. Oh. You look that up I know. Listeners for the record now I didn't come. And who is the only other actor nominated for Acting Academy Awards in five different decades. I'll. quit one head. Okay. I'll give you a hint. It's. My dear boy! Have you ever considered acting? But. Yes Olivier was nominated for an academy acting award in five different decades, beginning in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine, ending nineteen, seventy eight. Wow, and he said he said them. Cain said the Olivia was having real problems, not just 'cause. He was on valium during sloops, but he said he had real problems. With his acting in the end, he was doing British Time and he was on Valium I. Think he just being draw the national? I'm having trouble acting with my own face, he said. Workout have to do that is. That's probably that's like a high level acting problem that you get. You're laurence. Olivier Fall into traps like that. I won't acting I rolled acting problem. Yes, Okay Ball! What else would you like to hit on? Get Carter. that's con- system. Thing again is that you know he has a mock to you the coldest, red jank avoidable. You know he's the one that door. Thing I just as a great selection of cars and you last podcast. Causing there as well as there's actually the Sunbeam. Alpine gets featured in the bond. Film gets featuring Dr as well by. I actually think. Sports car. That's the. That's the sports car that the girl picks him up in after the parking lot is. A fancy sports car like Alfa. Romeo or something is other British idea of a sports car. Participants means not quite the most masculine title for a sports car. Alpine when you'RE A kid. Looking at those you sold line is. As. A toaster that's like a brand of toasters in America and they made cars. is also Westwood. It's it's working. Man's as we went. Okay working man's sports car if it's Hosta is a so if it's hosted could be a car and it's just something. I'm happy with that. That's a great hilarious montage that does is the driving stick shifting of the sports car intercut with the sex scene between the two of them. Yeah, brilliant, it's brilliant. It's so that's that's like maybe the one tip over into a little bit of cheese that I appreciate it always. There is a little bit of China or graded on top of that is. Going to say it's Tarantino's favorite film. Was Really. Favorite Bridgestone I say that I could see that. Style. It has effortless style. It's amazes me that Mike Hodges ended up making Flash Gordon Amir nine years later. I don't know how that's even humanly possible that that occurred. Probably do with a lot of cocaine. A. Need for money I don't know now you. We were talking one. What has this film influence and because Montgomery run out mentioned in once every crime film that came after it well. Yeah, it's sunny standbys. Also Montgomery said it's the is the best British gangster best postwar will pursue to film every night. was infamous honest discussing with few nights I would say sweeney. Sweeney was so of archetypal mid to late seventies. Early eighties. COP BUT NOT ALLSTATE COP. But long-running TV drama on Thames on. Is Debate and I think maybe that was the was the one because I'm actually, there's not a lot. The I would say the get concert if it was personified, tip his hat to anything else really because maybe long Good Friday Avi anything as you said. I. Think it's too good. To have anything MAY BE ON. And, then thing is before you had things like in TV subject things out the prisoner, which ruled a bit silly, not city, but they had a Hob name. But this was just crazy. No one else came along with this money fact. Bautzen. This much smoke. This much sticky carpet did I'm. In a in a in a in a thing us. No. It's singular like all like all great things, ultimately it has antecedents, and it has descendants, but it stands alone, and and whether Guy Ritchie cakes takes the lion ization of east end gangsters into. A more comical realm. Clearly does a massive debt to this film in these Ted Lewis Books, but again I keep going back to the books like the film Yes. Well, let's not forget. It was Ted Lewis. Who put this on paper as you see it onscreen? With greater depths. Greater characterization and and even more humour. Even more of this thing. We've come to then experiencing so many other places, which is that? Kind of appreciation of the the east end gangster, the cockney gangster right and it's that's the Ted. Lewis is the fountain from which I think. All of those other things that that want to explore particularly in the UK that type of crime life. Oh, the masochist debt to because he is the original. But I think by the time you spot goes out. It's actually makes it because you know you might just Jesus not worth it. It's level shots but Tim. You you, you should gun option. All of Ted's adshead Lewis is what because someone else will? I WANNA. Make a documentary about Ted Lewis. Someone I WANNA I WANNA get in touch with the author of his autobiography that's coming out because his life is crazy to. He died of alcohol abuse at forty. One and. He only wrote books for about ten years and I've only is. I read this one which in book form is called Jack's return home. And I read what's supposed to be kind of his masterwork, which is book Gbh job never read before which has a complicated narrative device where switches back and forth between now and then, but has the same type of Walloping Punch that that this movie in this book does at the end in an unexpected way, the same lyrical, unsentimental, yet appreciative examination of. The gangster life the crime life, but also had such A. Such a great way of kind of pre Tony Soprano showing us the cost of this life amongst your relationships and I think that's something that's Kinda hinted at in these books too I mean it's the talkative nature of what you said. Is Kitchen sink dramas in who they solve this? You know you're talking about light switches and stuff that we really are in Pennsylv- everyone apart from I, think by now so bike light lice, which is if you don't like Nikolai likes which is is the wrong podcast for us, Nice Johnston. Winds often, my downing sunk. That's the thing. Absolutely thunk! Higher up the ladder. You go your lights, which is a lot less noise. No, so, what else was my new bike? Your Table Top and. Your radio. Your phone said the only thing. I was GONNA sliced. Tomatoes him again in the right way, you bet your whatever. About your pounds the what would Michael Cain late night when he when he strides out onto the straight, a surprise, Allen's has out in that shotgun so terrible again a semi taking helium How would the haven't? He looks me a soul. I always think. thinking big, the Basque's so looking. In, but big in a bit handy China that guy would have been in the gym with his instruction for. It comes out of it looking like a real person. Yeah, a big bloke, but he does it for living sort of. James sold. Just, checking out his Paxton Jesuit. Iguana. Yup that's one we've lost in movies is is some of that sort you know soprano again? Twenties on Tony Soprano with. He's. A little bit more, you know yeah risk. Is something else okay well? Paul those fantastic. You acquitted yourself phenomenally well, I. Think you're going to have to come back. We're going to have to do another film. What should we do when you come back on the pods? Well let's do something a bit different than this missing. How many Just, it's. Go over well in the north. I mean you've taken some. You've made some some sweeping cultural claims about the north and I think I don't know. Are they going to welcome that from such a southerner like yourself? I don't know won't show. Sorry. A Monday, trying to you know your your your big upping it as they say, you're in the creation for it your. May Is it fashionable for the south to sort of. Look up to the north and and praise it or is it more? Cost my some. London I on British second during the second I'm certainly. hours parents, but I think yeah I have more in common with someone from the nose I'm probably would from. From the The Shi'as so I. Always say does that solve Earth Penis in ship. Yet I do yeah I do, but they'll just say. This. Is probably to do with full of things on that as well. Or that blessed I'm giving. It's not enough to do another another one. Yes, you climb both well. It was fantastic to have you on and thank you so much for sharing such great insight about this film, and about the UK and the class structure, and all the things that we know to depend on for. You. The pandemic alleviates so that we can see each other in person at one of our glamorous television. Global Conference stops in the near future we can. We can claim told glasses for the teeth to get county well. I'll have tea in a thin You know you know that the next time we do have a meal together. One of us is GonNa have to snap your fingers at the waiter innocent gloss. We real honestly privileged to be asked to on this because I'll always great, you did fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on I. Appreciate it. Jason everybody stay safe. But My. Inside? You'll doing all right eric. Go making good. Making a little bit. The prospects for advancement is. Pension. Juno. What Your Eyes Look. Out of. Your. Student. In snow. Says if you. Yes retire.