China is in the news. A lot and many people myself included feel that we should be more concerned and perhaps people are as to the influence their exerting in this country and their desire for much more It is it is nothing short of frightening. What the intentions of the chinese communist party. Clearly are an inroads. They've already made been winegarden. Has been a guest of ours before. He's a federalist senior contributor. Senior fellow at the london center for policy research fellow at the claremont institute. His latest article in the federalist about china says in its opening china wants the west to know it loves openness inclusiveness in cooperation. Their dictator said at the world economic forum. Recently that's the same man. Who is perpetrating. The genocide and working to crush freedom from hong kong to taiwan and far beyond ben. What should scare us most about china. I think the thing that should scare us most about china. The opposite side of the coin is that we should be scared of ourselves. Our own reaction to them. And what i mean by that is china has laid out very clearly that it wishes to be the dominant world power which means supplanting the us. Achieving dominance in every single strategically significant realm in business in technology in genomics. That article speaks in military affairs in diplomacy and beyond and america's response to that is twofold. One we don't we not only don't care about being the dominant world power but we're mired in woke ism national self loathing trying to destroy our history apologizing for all the values and principles on which our country is founded and at the same time we have our own china envy where our elites our ruling class wants to have the same power over the public as the ruling chinese communist party and is in bed with the chinese communist party so in effect the the thing that just scares the most is the percentage of people at the commanding heights of american society who are on board with the chinese agenda of becoming the dominant world power and actually aiding abetting and enabling that rise. So i had a guest last week. Who pointed out the chinese controlled ninety seven percent of antibiotics in this country. And you think to yourself. How did we get to that point. You know if if i started buying up stock in a company at five percents that would be a trigger by twenty five percent. The world would know if you were buying stock in a basic company. You couldn't do that overnight. How wh- when you're talking about a stock of something so critical to the nation's health literally how on earth have they made such inroads in this manner it. It's a great point and you can see to antibiotics in. Virtually every strategically significant area that impacts our life and limb the information telecommunications infrastructure and the entire information infrastructure that our economy is increasingly based on and not to mention of course hollowing out our industrial base while china has dominated in that realm and make many of the critical components that exists not only into billion technologies but in our most important military hardware as well. So how did this happen simply put. I would describe it in fold at way. China focused like a laser on dominating in all of the areas that eight new were required to be the dominant world power and that would give it leverage and power and influence over everyone else using this free and open trade architecture and financial architecture largely built by maintained by and defended by the united states. So they were. They were adept in terms of exploiting our weakness i in effect of openness and freedom and then on the other hand exploiting the greed and naievety on our side if you wanna look at it from the most idealistic sorta perspective. The the view of policymakers was free. Trade is a great thing because it drives down the prices of goods and it lets resources be freed up to go and be put to their highest and best use. America can can focus on moving up the value chain and becoming the high tech leader the information economy dominant player. And we'll let china take pick up all the rest of the slack where we dominated but it turns out that the hard parts of the dumb parts of the infrastructure in terms of the components that actually go into everything that we use in terms of the pipelines over which information runs in terms of our medicine itself and all manner of technology also around the health space is actually quite vital. And you see that. Most in a crisis like the corona virus crisis where the chinese communist party threatened to drown us in the sea of corona virus. Where the word they used through one of its communist mouthpiece publications in terms of not allowing those antibiotics to come here of course they also hoarded personal protective equipment and then handed out to the rest of the world shoddy personal protective equipment while it horrid the working functional equipment. So there's chinese. Being laser focused strategically the chinese communist party being strategically wade laser focused on dominating in these areas. Then there's our side perfectly ripe to be exploited if we're solely focusing on the short term economic impact of opening up this vibrant trade with china. And then there's the aspect of how china actually dominated over these decades which in large part involves using the full force of the chinese communist party to dominate. And his room so the perfect example of this being wildly for example and china has provided billions of dollars in financing for wild way. It is allowed while way to essentially run it. Losses undercut competition sell products at bargain basement prices in order to drive out the competition and buy it up because chinese communist party backed entities at the end of the day. Don't really operate in terms of the laws of economics. They really operate in terms of the laws of war. And that means that for the ccp dominating in these realms means that they can run businesses and losses essentially in perpetuity until they picked up all the market share. It's like if i if every industry to every single chinese back company strategically significant sector is essentially amazon accepted amazon backed by the chinese communist party. Well and this is the question. I want to begin the next segment with. I'll read our read. The line increasingly what was always implicit about the nature of chinese quote unquote business. That there's no line between where private business begins in. The state ends is becoming explicit as their leader consolidates his power overtly takes ever-greater control over the chinese economy. What i wanna come back and talk about is. It's not just that we're dealing with a state rather than individual companies within a state. It's that that state is also financing a military. That should concern us. We'll continue this conversation coming up. Ben winegarden is our guest. He's a federalist senior contributor senior fellow at the london center for policy research and a fellow at the claremont institute. We're talking about an article. He wrote for the federalist about china and as we went to break. Been my last point reading from your piece. I'd like to add another sentence from here. And i'll let you take it from there. It is long past time america. Stop thinking about its commercial relations with china in terms of doing business with the normal power and separating such business from strategic concerns. You sort of alluded to what others have been talking about. Which is we're basically doing. Business with a state not individual companies within a state and that state is is indistinguishable from a very aggressive military. Right absolutely right. And what i'm trying to get at there is. You'll know that. America and what remains of the free world is serious about its dealings with communist china when it stops talking about business and commerce with chinese companies as being about normal status quo business and commerce with companies as if it was in britain or australia or anywhere else across the world. We're dealing with the power which seeks to be the dominant world power which exerts myriad. I'm in total control in effect and in practice over any entity that operates strategically significant space. And yes there are. These purportedly legal distinctions between state owned entities companies that receive state financial backing companies. That just happened to do some work. With the people's liberation army and in in china and then purportedly private companies like they claim. Weiwei is a private company that's owned by its employees even though you can go back and the records and you can look at the ties of course in all of these organizations to the chinese communist party with the executives and all the major company is being members of the chinese communist party and that really means something that's not insignificant that means direct control on top of the state itself embedding its own councils and actually increasingly a controlling operational decision making within most of these companies but even stepping back from that you are not operating in communist china and able to become a dominant player in any space in the economy without the implicit if not explicit of the party because the party is dominant and the party cannot allow anything to challenge its rule as for this point you make about the military link here. China pursues a strategy of military civil fusion. Which is essentially we. Always we hear a lot about jargon about dual use is how you have a civilian application to technology and then potentially a military application the entire china's economy is essentially a dual use every single innovative effort that they make they steal intellectual property ultimately may be used by the chinese. Communist party's army. The people liber people's liberation army. And let's be i. It's worth repeating that the pla is the chinese. Communist party's military. It is not china's military so what does the military specifically to defend the party and its prerogatives and so what you see is and what. I try to argue here. Is that when you're doing business with any chinese entity. You're really doing business at the end of the day with the chinese communist party and they are making this evermore explicit they have national security laws so called laws. They really have the rule by law. They're not the rule of law but they're national security laws and regulations essentially. Say that if the chinese communist party is national security apparatus says we need to collect information from you or access or technology or speak to certain individuals within your company. You have to be a completely open book. So it's pretty explicit that anything under the guise of national security can be collected hoover it up and exploited and leveraged ultimately by the ccp. All of which is to say when we do business with china it has to be understood that you're doing business with the power that ultimately wants to dominate you then almost every single strategic thrust is directed towards that end. And so this isn't just normal course of business trade and until we're oriented that way in our own mind as a country we're going to lose because the other side is laser focused on it and we think that this is just the the normal course and one of the problems in one of the reasons we got to this point in the first place is because for decades our leaders and this is across the business world across academia and of course in washington. Dc have all been on board with this agenda of greater integration and accommodation with the chinese communist party but that commerce gives it all the leverage the difference but one of the major differences between what we're dealing with now and the cold war is that the soviet union was not in inextricably intertwined in every aspect of our economic life. The chinese communist party in effect is it's true. And you know if i if i tell you in my analysis didn't happen but it does many days that there was a revelation this morning of a spy at a research laboratory at one of our major universities. You wouldn't have to think twice. You'd say i'm sure it was a chinese spy and it always is. We had that situation here in houston where we had spying coming out of the the consular the consular offices and they were spying on what was going on at the at the houston medical center. We're seeing spies repeatedly working for the ccp infiltrating the research departments of our country which is where a lot of our nation's research is done with at the behest of and and by the benefactor of of the federal government. It's very disturbing. It is clearly a strategic effort to spy on our research at our universities repeatedly such that. It's a pattern. it's it's what they're doing. It's absolutely right. They are focused on getting whatever advantages. They can in high tech in everywhere across the information's fear. And then beyond and that involves infiltrating and corrupting and leveraging our research institutions are academic institutions. And by the way this is even down to k through twelve school there confucius institutes that have been bandied about when it comes to colleges but it's even impacting curricula from k. Through twelve mike. Pompeii a former secretary of state has said that even down to the school board level. The chinese communist party seeks to cultivate relationships and sometimes it doesn't at all appear nefarious. And usually it's even better from the cpi side if they're one or two steps removed so it's obvious for example and you have definite cases of this that the doj has brought of chinese nationals with ties to the people's liberation army or intelligence services. Who come here to study under whatever pretense to come here to study actually working in strategically significant realms you know in high tech research and biotechnology in genomics and the like but then you have even worse. The corruption one step removed of funding researchers in america. Who are american citizens have been here. Their whole lives who take millions of dollars potentially like the head one of the most prominent researchers at harvard university who was arrested over this Charged with this. So you have the the actual chinese national who will infiltrate us then. You have the corruption of the chinese dollars which is used to impact americans and then you have the more subtle measures of influence writing letters arguing that you should advocate for certain positions. If you're a state legislator and you're talking about communist china so it runs the whole gamut from the top of the us federal government all the way down to the local municipal county state level as well and it's an every single area and that requires a comprehensive whole of government whole of society response to their whole of government holds society effort to ultimately dominate us. And so that's why one of the reasons. I keep hammering this issue home. Is you have to have an understanding of the warfare environment that we're in. Which is that one side is fully engaged. Our side began to be engaged on the trump administration. And i would argue the most essential thing that it did. In the national security and foreign policy space was to try to inform the american people about the nature of the ccp and all of its various efforts across a myriad areas. But that said this could all be unwound very quickly under a biden presidency. And as i've argued leading up to his presidency and then the early days there's no indication that we are not going back to something like the status quo of continued in engagement. I put that in air quotes here engagement with the chinese communist party which means continued invitation for them to eat our lunch. You're exactly right and on another occasion will spend some time talking about the efforts. The chinese made the made to undermine president trump some of them very successful been winegarden. Thanks for being our guest comeback again. Thanks so much and they really appreciate it.