Federal judge fears Trump involvement in DOJ cases could make U.S. a 'banana republic'
Tonight Michael Moore will join us. I'M GONNA ask him to help us. Assess Donald Trump's reelection. Chances Michael's always honest about this. It's going to be a good conversation. Plus we're on the ground in Nevada talking to voters about the Democratic Race and former Governor Bill Weld of Massachusetts will join us on what his stronger than expected showing in the New Hampshire Republican primary means for trump this fall but we begin as Rachel disgust with the country's rule of law facing a growing crisis as the controversy widens over the attorney general and President Trump's influence over the department of Justice. Tonight new controversial developments involve the people both at the center of the president's impeachment and the Russia investigation and the Department of Justice is deeply divided tonight because of the influence of Donald Trump as he tries to vindicate his allies to exact revenge on his perceived enemies. Here's what Attorney General Bill Bar wants you to believe. The president has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case. If he were to say you know go investigate somebody because and you sense. It's because their political opponent then attorney general shouldn't carry. That out wouldn't carry that that's what you might call a red herring. We'll discuss that just hours. After Bill Bar said that we learned that he has assigned an outside prosecutor to review the criminal investigation of a trump loyalist trump's former national security adviser. Michael Flynn. Let's just remember that Michael Flynn retired. General pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI investigation in the investigation into Russian interference two years ago. Interestingly and somewhat mysteriously Flynn recently tried to withdraw his guilty plea and effort which the judge rejected and BBC news is carol-lee reports the inquiry into Flynn's FBI interview could be aimed at several former officials. Trump has repeatedly criticised including former FBI. Director James Comey and former deputy. Fbi Director Andrew McCabe people with the familiar with the inquiry. Said they also said it could be part of an effort to make a presidential pardon of Flynn More Paddle Palatable James Komen Andrew McCabe are two of trumps favorite punching bags. Trump has repeatedly called for McCabe to be prosecuted and the Department of Justice. Seem like it might be prepared to do just that but today those are all the tweets. Ask You for maccabee prosecuted today. The Department of Justice announced that McCabe will not face charges and that has reportedly infuriated trump. We also learned that the federal judge who was overseeing the McCabe case raised alarms in court about the president's involvement in the case Judge Reggie Walton a Bush forty three appointees said in court quote. The public is listening to what's going on and I don't think people like the fact that you got somebody at the top basically trying to dictate whether somebody should be prosecuted. I just think it's a banana republic when we go down that road. And we have those types of statements being made that are conceivably even if not influencing the ultimate decision. I think there are a lot of people on the outside who perceive that there is undue inappropriate pressure. Bring being brought to bear now. Gabe and Roger Stone are all involved in the Russia investigation but there's a new development regarding the Ukraine scheme the Washington Post reports that as the impeachment trial was coming to an end federal prosecutors took new steps into their investigation of Rudy Giuliani including an interview. With a witness. Last week prosecutors have also sought information related to the former. Us Ambassador in Ukraine. Maria Vich whom you will recall Junie. Giuliani pushed hard to oust. Prosecutors have also inquired about two companies with ties to Giuliani's former associate left partis guy in the red shirt. But here's the weird thing on Monday. The Attorney General. Bill Barr confirmed that the Justice Department has created a quote intake process to evaluate dirt on the Biden's that Rudy Giuliani continues to collect from Ukrainian sources the Washington Post. Put it this way quote. The parallel developments mean that one part of the Justice Department is scrutinizing Giuliani while another is accepting information from him allegedly concerning a political rival of the president. Now this all comes as the president has made a stunning admission about Rudy Giuliani during the impeachment inquiry. President trump strongly denied sending his personal Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine on his behalf but lead an interview with Geraldo Rivera. Yesterday the president changed his story and admitted he did do it. Then Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine. Your personal lawyer. You sorry you did that. Not at all rudy was a great crimefighter. You know that maybe not anybody in this game so when you tell me why did I use Rudy? And the thing about routing number one. He was the best best prospect. You know one of the best price and the best mayor. He's just the best joining me now. Neil Caccia former acting solicitor general at an MSNBC contributor his the author impeach the case against Donald Trump. Neil good to see you. Thank you for being with us. I just think we need to remind our viewers. It's been a few days. People have had some chances. Soak this in. There is nothing normal about what has been going on at the Justice Department in the last few days. Bill Bar has made it seem like. Hey I'm the attorney general. We got prosecutors around here. We always sort of chew the fat and talk about sentencing and changing recommendations and things that we've asked for that's not really true and it's not really true when the only ones that bar seems to get involved in our things directly related to trump. Yeah all the. That's poppycock really to put it mildly. This is unprecedented. It is incredibly disheartening to me. Everyone who works at the Justice Department. I can tell you Ali you know. I've talked to a bunch of former high ranking Republican Democrat People who served in the Justice Department. There's not a single person who's not enormously worried about what's going on right now. I mentioned the politics I mentioned the top of the show. The bar throwing out a red herring here. I wanted just play a little bit more what he said and I wanted to get your evaluation of it to have public statements and tweets made about the department about People in the department are men and women hear about cases pending in the department and about judges before whom we have cases Make it impossible for me to do my job. I'm not going to be bullied or influenced by anybody evaluate that he doesn't have to be bullied or influence anyone. He knows exactly what trump wants. Trump puts it out as always in plain sight with tweets. He said later in that interview. I don't I don't see twitter. I don't know that anybody tweeted. It was only after he told the prosecutors in Roger Stone's case to re- to ask for a reduced sentence the lower range that he found out the president had tweeted about it. And I think the legal term you used in your last answer was poppycock. Yeah so look I mean. I think we should wait to hear what attorney general bars explanation is for. What's happened this week? What mishmash she was saying yesterday mean. It doesn't make any sense if you think it's impossible to do your job. You are the Attorney General of the United States. You then resign. You don't go and complain about it in an interview and by the way. I don't understand why he's giving an interview to ABC and not to the Congress United States. I mean these are some of the most serious things that justice permanent ever confronts which is political accusations that they are using the prosecution power to fix cases to help the president's friends to hurt his enemies. I mean he should be up there and explaining that now now later and you know this is an attorney general who comes in with a very blemished record. He falsely summarize the Miller report with four page with that four page memo before last week he stood by and while the president gave his his celebration for being found guilty in the thing the president said he attacked quote. Fbi SCUM and the attorney. General sat there and did nothing. I would think those kinds of things make it. Impossible to do the attorney. General's job the attorney general is of course the boss of the FBI. Let me ask you about that. On on March thirty first he will apparently go before the house. Judiciary Committee at Congress to maybe explain. I don't know what he's going to do earlier today. I spoke with Michael Conway who at the time of the Nixon impeachment was counsel to the House. Judiciary Committee asked him what he thought might happen on. March thirty first. Here's what he told me. We used to worry that someone would put their thumb on the scale of justice. Bill bars breaking the scale of justice. He's become the errand boy for the president politicize. The Justice Department completely the career members of the Justice Department are very demoralized by this and I think that the House Judiciary Committee will grill him. But we've seen in the hearings that he had before the Senate Judiciary Committee is confirmation bill bars Wiley speaker. He's not gonNA be flummoxed by this question he's going to dodge and move. He said he was going to enforce the rule of law. And now we see what he's really done. So Neil the one compliment. We can all pay bill bar is. He's a good talker is Wiley. He's good at this stuff. So what comes of bill bar going to Congress and being asked to explain himself? Well you're right I think bar is not trump. I mean trump is. You're saying about Ukraine. Can't keep his lies straight at all and he just gets confused. A Bar doesn't have that problem but I think bar has a deeper problem when he goes and testifies on March thirty first which is really the reality. Which is the president seemed to be bent on investigating all of the president's enemies and benefiting all of the President's friends I mean he's now launched investigations into investigators over Michael. Flynn the president's National Security Adviser Roger. Stone the president's campaign official. Close Confidante Carter page before that also someone who worked on the trump campaign so he's been launching all of those investigations and it's kind of like Ukraine in the sense of you know the president said what I did was right. I was trying to fight corruption. And he was asked well. Can you come up with any other example anywhere in the world where you actually cared about corruption and they couldn't then and similarly here bar should be asked you here you are doing the president's bidding time and time again you're now magically concerned about unfairness over Roger Stone? There are thousands of criminal cases in the system. Why you know each other have you. Yeah what other cases have you been concerned about the unfairness of which wasn't tied to the president's political favors in the life of comics guy? We could charge it all out. Look at it too distantly to say. Oh you know what every twelve days? He gets himself involved in one of these sentencing cases. We'd love to see that evidence to see how regularly he does because he is presenting this as normal. But you said something you said time and time again you made a reference to. I think it was about the middle of two thousand eighteen when bill bar private citizen former attorney general. Wrote this memo this twenty page memo unsolicited to Rod Rosenstein? The acting attorney about why trump shouldn't have to answer questions. Sounds like that might have been a job interview or an application. Because eight or nine months later he was confirmed as the attorney general who was then receiving Bob Muller's report didn't tell the rest of us for three or four weeks about what was in that report so it is time and time again. Bill Bar has shown us who we is over and over again. If anybody doesn't believe it now shame on them. Yeah and I just want to say one word about why this is important. I mean our prosecution system depends on people having trust that. It's not political that you're not using the awesome machinery of Justice and imprisonment and prosecutors to go after the enemies of the president or to help the friends. And that's how I always saw in two different administrations at the Justice Department. I saw so many instances in which the politics said to do one thing or even the White House's desires of the president's desires but the Justice Department said no. That's not the right thing to do for the country in the interest of the United States government. And they didn't do it in this president. It seems like it's always the reverse and when you say they didn't do it they people who might have been. Republicans people might have been Democrats people who were career prosecutors. This has been tested over and over again and generally speaking the apparatus in the structure and the spine of the Justice Department has survived this sort of effort to influence correct. And it's not just the career folks. I would even say the political folks. I mean I remember one occasion in which there was a White House official who is trying to lean on me to do something and I said `I will resign before that and that wasn't an uncommon thing. I mean if there was ever pressure put on someone in a way they would do the right thing and say I won't do that or I'll resign. They don't go and do the president's bidding and then go give some mealy mouth speech about how it makes it impossible to do their job but then they continue doing the job in the way the president wants them to do it. He'll always good to talk to you. Thank you neal coty? I'll just ahead. We're going to talk about the trump primary challenger. The former Governor Bill Weld in his take on the growing crisis at the Justice Department and we'll discuss his campaigns surprise showing in the New Hampshire Republican primary and why that could be a bad sign for president trump in November. I'm not happy with you. They got supposed to be happy with if I'm not in colonel. President trump is sending a signal that the Pentagon should look into disciplining. We sent him on his way to a much. Different locations died. I'm sitting here today in the US Capitol. You made the right decision. Forty years ago to leave the Soviet Union come here to the United States of America in search of a better life for our family. Do not worry military can handle him anywhere they want. I will be fine. The truth put a great ad pointing to just one still picture of vitamin and showing you. What everything that Vin. Men had on his uniform jacket. Meant about what that man has done for America. It's an ad by the Lincoln Project which is an Organization of Republicans committed to defeating trump in two thousand twenty after trump removed the decorated veteran. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vitamin from his and his brother by the twin brother from the White House. Vin Man had testified in the impeachment investigation on November nineteenth. He was removed two days after all but one. Republican senator voted to acquit Donald trump including this particular Republican senator. I believe that the president has learned from this case. What do you believe? The president has learned. The president has been in page. That's pretty big glass. Then Donald Trump told reporters he wanted the army to investigate Colonel Vin men but today the army flat out shut down that request. And here's what Senator Susan Collins. The last remaining congressional Republican from New England has to say now occupies pitch accents me very clear that I don't think anyone should be retaliated against that has nothing to do with the base and Spike Wedge voted to acquit Presley. One Republican who has a lot to say about president trump is this man former Massachusetts governor? Bill Weld. Now I'm GonNa talk about running for President admit it but during Watergate Bill. Weld was a council on the house. Judiciary Committee is also running for the Republican presidential nomination against President. Trump governor. Good to see you again. Thank you for joining me. Thank you governor. You and I spoke on the morning after the New Hampshire primary. This had not this. Other story had not ripened at that point this whole story about Bill Bar and Donald Trump and the Roger Stone story. It is kind of remarkable. I was just talking about Neil cocktail about this. That bill bar has spun this tale. About what the Department of Justice is and how it works. That is not in keeping with our traditions or or perhaps with your understanding of what it's supposed to be doing. Ali. I'm just sick about the whole thing. With the Justice Department. I was inspired to go into law enforcement by my work on the Nixon impeachment and I got there and I served seven years in a department under Ronald Reagan five as a US attorney into as in a pretty good job as assistant attorney general of the United States in charge of the criminal division first among equals in Washington. And my entire time there. I was dedicated. To try to keep politics out of law enforcement and I've never seen anything so brazen as what the president and Attorney General Bar are trying to do and doing on a daily basis. I mean when when ag Bar said the presence making it impossible for me to do my job. What he meant was Mr President. You're blowing my cover. Don't call attention to what I'm doing. And you know when I was at criminal and Steve Trout and Lowell. Jensen were my superiors in the Department. All career prosecutors longtime prosecutors. There was sort of an informal death penalty for anyone who interfered with the US Attorney's office in the field. Doing what they thought had to be done and that was that was a golden era of law enforcement and the president and his attorney. General auditioned for the job are trashing. That entire tradition and withered goes the rule of law and the idea of a government of laws and not of men and women. And I WANNA remind everybody you are a Republican and everybody. We've add on here. Who was a former department of Justice? Employee has the same thing to say that there have always been pressures they've always been pressures has always been white houses which wanted the Attorney General the Justice Department to do certain things but this level of interference is unforeseen. It's it's not something that we've ever seen before and it's not something anybody would have expected. It's unprecedented and when I receive tense from ranking people in the government that maybe I should go slow or fast on a case because someone was a friend of the President I was gone. I resigned and that was a good job. And so did the deputy attorney general of the United States Army Burns and so did his top aides and so did my top two eight. We weren't fussing around because the principle of the rule of law and keeping politics out of law enforcement was at the core of our professional commitment to. You're doing more than what most people who have made a national pastime out of lamenting this administration. And doing you're actually running for president but for the rest of us. What are the options here? March THIRTY FIRST BILL BAR goes before balance. You do share your committee for which Council what can possibly happen. What can come out of that. Well I think the attorney general is way over the line. I think the memo he sent in to Rod Rosenstein in June of eighteen was an audition for the job of AG. He is persuaded the president that in the president's words I have this thing called article two the constitution. It says I can do whatever I want. I believe that came straight from Bill Bar He Bill Bar used to be a good strong guy by the way. This is a new person to me. and You Know He. He has said that. The president basically has absolute power when he's exercising and he knew the power of the constitution. He can't be questioned. It doesn't matter if he took one hundred million dollar bribe to do it. If it's something he has the right to do he can't be questioned. Obviously not the large ludicrous. Well except what? The president's lawyers argued in the impeachment. Case is that if there's something that maybe the president's personal interest but there's also a national interest involve he's covered now not a lot of people believe that argument but that seems to have did that is that is also ludicrous. As is the president's claim that because he is article to that Article One the Congress has no oversight authority over him that flies in the face of the plain language of the Constitution. So you just. It's it's hard to imagine More than the president and I regret to say this. Bill Bar are displaying. Here governor again you are a man who's been in the arena the whole time and you're still in the arena against US president on Tuesday. You participated in the Republican primary in New Hampshire. And I just want to put the numbers up here. You got nine point one percent of the vote. Donald Trump got eighty five. Point six percent of the vote notwithstanding the fact that you got an uphill battle to Take them on in the in the election and I just WANNA maybe put up on the screen. The number states in which primaries have essentially been canceled? You're not gonNA have a fair chance to go up against. What is the fact that you've got nine point one percent of that vote? Tell you about the election in November. Well I think we can do better than that and Super Tuesday. I've got Massachusetts Vermont. Colorado California Utah. Pretty good states for me so I think as as people come to realize that there is an alternative to president trump in the Republican party. And that would be me and I'm still standing and we're going forward. I think we can do better than that. And that will You know be even more of a hole in the SS trump. Ship below the waterline You know Steve Bannon and said that if the president loses three to four percent of the in his words quote traditional Republican vote close quote. The president can't be reelected. Well that means you know losing nine percent the president's already not going to be reelected but I think we can do a lot better than that and it's full speed ahead for rest bill. L. You're doing better than still standing your thriving former Massachusetts Governor Bill. Well thanks again for joining US tonight. Thanks I coming up. The president's reckless post impeach would behavior makes. It seem like he thinks he's invincible. Are His actions doing more damage to his reputation? Then we actually think Mike Moore is joining me next to break down the numbers and give us some insight on what voters really thinking about. Trump as the presidential election heats up. So you want to be president. I've watched many candidates run for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it for this microphone. Mike podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from the many losers. The hope still lives and the dream shall never die so you. WanNa be President with Chris Matthews and MSNBC podcast search now wherever you're listening and subscribe episodes available now. She wanted to be president. I've watched many candidates run for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it. I feel your pain. My podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separates the few winners from the many losers. This campaign was and will remain the great honor of my life. So you WANNA BE PRESIDENT WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS AND MSNBC. Podcast search now wherever you're listening and subscribe episodes available now. Donald Trump is the first president in history who is running in a general election after being impeached and acquitted and it begs the question. Just how strong is the support for Donald Trump and his twenty twenty reelection campaign last week? A Gallup poll show Donald Trump with a forty nine percent approval rating. That's the highest in Gallup since he took office in two thousand seventeen bud. This poll is an outlier. Trump has never at any point in his presidency in any credible national poll hit fifty percent and in fact in four recent post impeachment poll president trump's approval approval rating. Never got near fifty percent. There were forty one forty one forty four and forty three now in a new University of Texas Texas Tribune poll. President trump is underperforming with Texas. Voters these numbers still look favorable for him but fit forty eight percent of voters in Texas. Which trump won in two thousand sixteen by five points now say they would vote to reelect donald trump? The poll also shows the president narrowly leading all of the top Democratic candidates in Texas within the polls margin of error. But it's important to note that trump did not receive a majority of the vote in any of these head to head. Polls joining me now. Michael Moore and Academy Award winning filmmaker. He recently launched his new podcast. Rumble with Michael Moore. Mike what do you make of all of this? Donald trump whether or not it seems reasonable. Hit An all time high in that particular bowl in the week. He was impeached. Yeah well known. In the week that he was acquitted acquitted so America loves a winner and not surprised that that people that may have just hung up the phone in previous weeks from pollsters call they might have said yes or a good beat the system that we are that way as Americans but no. I think listen. Let me the real concern here. There's a real underlying absolutely phenomenal. And I want to speak to this because I want to preface that anything. That sounds like optimism coming out of my mouth. I want people at home to know that nobody can slow down or think that they don't have any work to do. Between now and November. Everybody has to be off the bench and involved in a significant way or there will be four more years of Donald Trump. Having said that I think that what we've seen recently is that trump is actually very beatable. I mean a lot of people actually Democrats whatever. They're very nervous that refrain who'd we tech. Who Do we pick? It's got to be the first ones GonNa beat them all the polls are showing you for the last few months that there's at least three or four. Democrats that beat trump every head to head poll. Every Dan Pohl the Democrat wins. More you know more than most people head to head. Polls don't tell you how it all breaks down. Well I know this especially because of what happened in sixteen and what. I tried to warn Democrats as like. You're on in states like Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania that if the candidate if the party decides to flip off a state and literally not go to Wisconsin. That's what happened in sixteen candidate the democratic and it did not go other in Michigan. It was even weirder. We couldn't get yard signs. I mean literally nobody could get a yard sign and finally when I was making my film the year after I talked to one of the top people in the DNC Hillary campaign. I said just a quick question here. How come we get yard signs in Michigan? And he knew the answer as you mean it was on purpose he goes. Oh Yeah Yeah. We decided that wouldn't be a good idea for trump voters to see a lot of hillary signs on the road or on the street because it would remind them every day that they had to get out there and vote. I said to you made a decision out of fear. You're you're afraid of trump so so you thought people working in other words election going on. If you didn't put a hillary sign in the yard. I mean this is way this is what is killing me about. Democrats and people are gonNA vote Democratic to to be in the sense of this place of fear. Trump is not some invincible. You know large iron giant. That's going to crush everybody. He is disliked. He's the most disliked president. That'S RUN FOR OFFICE. Certainly an incoming president probably since. I hate to say Jimmy. Carter's numbers are pretty. Long was a great man but but there's no way that people should be afraid of him and frankly the more you sink into your despair. The more that that you just are in the state of anxiety the more power you give. The state of anxiety is shared by a lot of people. You are years of this but you. In particular are plate. You come from a blue collar place. You're a you're background your white man in America and when we look at the numbers of people who have high school education right so you looking trump demographic correct so look at the Congressional Election Study Tober November two thousand sixteen shows. The twelve percent of people voted in that primary reported voting for Bernie Sanders Bernie Sanders more. Yep then in November. They voted for trump. Correct right. Yes that's what happens. It was even worse in two thousand eight fifteen percent of people who voted for Hillary in the primaries between her and Barack Obama Fifteen Percent Hillary voters voted for John McCain even more in two thousand eight Democrats who voted for. Hillary voted for the Republican. More than what? What does that tell you? It tells me that we got by sixteen. We got better. We got better at it. Because there were fewer Bernie voters from the primaries who decided to vote for many of those voters their economic anxiety and their economic concerns are the same right they both Bernie Sanders and Donald. Trump have tapped into a rich vein of frustration. Yeah different way to put it up. Don't people in in Michigan and Pennsylvania Wisconsin and elsewhere more than more than pistol fit? What is gone on and a lot of people who didn't necessarily like trump saw him as this human molotov-cocktail that they could throw into a system that they wanted to blow out essential right well enough of those people by the end of the first year of trump. I think saw the error of that and they're not going to be true. Yes because you know more about this part of America I do. Yes because they didn't do they. Do you think they get their wages are not up significantly that the stock market's at affecting their are you kidding? Of course they're living living there who affected by the trade war saying we're sticking by trump. I can't I know I I see that on TV. And I'm just thinking this is bad casting or something I don't know where they find the But I shouldn't say that because I spent a couple of weeks in Iowa and it was so the the level of fear and frustration was so low low in the sense of people believable. Where Love Yeah? The level. Frustration was high level prescription. Was people were very depressed and They don't really know where to go or what to do. The question that keeps getting asked especially on this network all the shows how is it. That Bernie is so far ahead. Why is he still number one now? He's ten points ahead of number two in today's poll and seventy percent of young adult voters in Texas. Say they're for Bernie and you go to or how about this? Statistic of this is just last weekend. The candidate that has the most contributions from active duty servicemembers active duty military is Bernie Sanders. Why don't we hear that? Why don't we know why don't why don't we? I think that I think it's I think it's confounded the pundit class to. I think it's been. How did he get here? Why would people? He's not GonNa win a really well. I think they're the same people who told us. Trump wasn't going to win our guys like you and he'd be honest with you. We grew up. Sharing in a national border can is Bernie Sanders. The Guy who can create a coalition really. Because we know a lot of people say Bernie Sanders is in the Democrat. Really and if he runs I'm not voting for him. How do you address it? Honestly this is just my more. Llc No cameras. I can I can tell you exactly how high I have been. Investing it first of all. I Know Bernie. I've known for thirty years. You don't see this part in the clips on TV. But he's he's a person that is he says this all the time is speeches. I never see it. He talks about love and compassion. Love and compassion. He really does like the people that he's running with running against on the democratic stage. He he doesn't when I was out there last week in New Hampshire every day we get a memo from the from the campaign saying please remember. Be Kind be kind. Don't yes. Have the policy debate. Have the disagreement but only talk about actions. Don't talk about a personality thing it's wrong. It's wrong on a human his whole family from the campaign but still people watching this right now. They're going. I don't know key wing. Can He win? And it's that that jittery that nervous thing that what part of this don't they understand? I think that sometimes look in life. There's not going to be anything. That's absolutely certain. And you're going to have to. You're going to have to take a bit of a risk in your own mind but I'm telling you Continue that discussion because podcast. I actually so to see Michael. Thank you Michael Moore. I either break our panels or Lena Max Christina Beltran join me and later we'll get thoughts on the Democratic primary voters in the next thing that hey it's MSNBC's Chris as this week on my podcast wise is happening. I'll be talking with Jon. Favreau about the way to beat trump. I feel like too much of the conversation around. Twenty twenty in politics is a conversation. We're all having with ourselves so I wanted to do. Focus groups of groups of People Democrats probably need to win not just the Obama. Trump voters but non-voter sporadic voters. Romney Voters Clinton voters. And then I thought well I would go to all the different regions that we need and also talk to the activists and organizers on the ground about how they're trying to persuade the voters that's this week come. Why is this happening? Please search wise happening wherever you're listening. Now and subscribe. Trump is very beatable in two thousand twenty. That's a conversation I just had with Michael Moore joining me to talk about this early. Maxwell senior director progressive programming it Sirius. Xm RADIO AT MSNBC political analyst and Christina Beltran and associate professor in the Department of Social and cultural analysis at New York University. She's the author of the trouble with Unity Latino politics and the creation of identity. Welcome to both of you. So lean away to start with you. I want you to give me an evaluation of what Michael told us that that frustration that probably helped Donald Trump not probably obviously helped donald trump and office in two thousand sixteen. Maybe the same frustration that he says gets him out of office in two thousand twenty. Look I think that you know? There's been a lot said about what that frustration should be called whether or not it's so-called economic anxiety or something else but I think that there is a lot of anxiety in groups of Americans that we don't talk about enough and that also contributed to the two thousand sixteen outcome. So what I say is that. Why don't we look at all of the voters? Not just the seventy seven thousand but the diverse coalition that you're going to need and if a million black people stayed home if turnout dropped among people of Color in these critical states because remember black. People live in Wisconsin as well then that that is also a place where Democrats can surely benefit in focusing on turnout because any Democrats GonNa get ninety percent of the black vote but it matters. How many votes? That actually ends up being president. What do you think I think she's exactly right? I think I think democracy is on the ballot and I think that one of the big issues in this election is how do you turn non-voters into voters so rather than simply you know looking for the same types of voters? I think we have one task in this election. Right which is get rid of a tyrant and get rid of enablers of tyranny rates. So I think that really thinking about this in a more democratic and Broadway rather than just thinking about these three states. It's about down ballot elections. It's about transforming you know the whole vision of what we're trying to do in an election and I think that you know for me. That's one of the issues. Have a little bit with Bloomberg is I feel like we're looking for someone to rescue us and I think something that we really take seriously in. This election is that we are going to save ourselves so whoever the candidate is that's one question but the bigger question is who are we. The two thousand eighteen election actually showed a bit of what? Christine is talking about the idea that there were down ballot races. There were independent people who are otherwise not politicize. Young people women people of Color Women of Color who ran for office and actually one. It was people saving themselves. How does that become victory in two thousand twenty well? I think it should tell us that we should like Christie ticker students point not look for the savior. We're never going to find the perfect and safe candidate. That's definitely going to be Donald Trump. This is an American election. Those are usually close and so we need to do is build the coalition in order to do that. You pick the candidate that that elicits enthusiasm from the base of the Democratic Party which is a coalition of people of Color. And if you don't start there then you're doing it wrong. You don't start with the seventy seven thousand you start with the core of the party asked the Republicans to start you know with the John Casick voters and forget the base and so we should not do that on our side. We should focus on exciting black and Brown voters and they do you do that through speaking directly to their issues arguably every candidate. Who came out of New Hampshire? Said they were the one to do that. Everybody speech was about that. I am the one who can build the coalition who our viewers who are people who are watching these things supposed to believe. How do you make how do you discern who is because that's the ultimate strategic voting right if you want to defeat? Donald Trump you elect the person you think is the best coalition builder. But how do you determine that I know I think it's really hard to play? Pundit right to think about well who would I mean basically every single one of these? We don't have a transcendent candidate this year. We don't have kind of. I think the way Bill Clinton eventually popped out or the Obama. Did I think that every one of these candidates has amazing strengths? They galvanized certain segments of the electorate. But they don't galvanize every segment of the electorate or they risk losing one part of it and they risk gaining another either. You have the possibility of getting another so I think that rather than thinking about it. Sort of strategically tactically. He will really should think who excites me. Whose AGENDA DO I believe in and then fight like hell but again. I also think it's really important to think about if your if your commitment is to defeating trump. Then I think each and every one of us have to ask ourselves. What am I doing in the next nine months? What organizations of my donating to what group semi organizing within my joining the League of women voters like. What am I doing to transform this electric talking to my family members but it's democratic project for the public not the perfect rescue candidate. That will solve our problems. They're all in a way. This is a grown-up election. Because there's nobody perfect and we're SORTA forced to save you all going. Hold that thought Zelina Christina. Stay with us when we come back. We're GONNA hear from voters in Nevada. That's the next state to caucus. What what are they looking for in a candidate? Let's ask them directly and what could sway their vote. That's next. The Nevada caucuses our next Saturday. I'll be there but early. Voting in Nevada begins tomorrow. There are thirty six pledged delegates at state statistically very small but it's important for a couple of other reasons. A new poll out of Nevada today has Bernie Sanders in the lead with twenty five percent of the vote. Biden's and second with eighteen warns in third with thirteen. Tom styron spending a lot of money and time. In that state is at eleven percent peop- Buddha judge and Amy Klobuchar or a ten percent. Joe Biden just wrapped up a town hall in Henderson. Nevada and news embed Mariana so to my or was there and she talk to some voters to see how they're feeling about the democratic. Primary here are two voters Joe and Leslie talking about what they're looking for in a candidate. I`ma strong supporter Joe Biden. I like everything he stands for. I think he's the one to be. Trump trump has to go. That's it and I want the most honest and authentic human being the motel pathetic. Human being the possible to get in there like grandmother would the democratic socialist. My mother was. I am Joe but even Biden Volunteer Ryan Phillips. Says he will support anyone as long as it's not trump races in the past where there's been a very clear front runner. I'm I really don't know what to expect. So I think it's really healthy. The important for our party to have a robust primary You know I'm going to support whoever the nominee is and do everything I can to make them be the next president United States. I think that most Democrats will And hopefully most of the the candidates right now will encourage their actual. I'm Christina Beltran are back with me. You heard him Ryan just say Zelina. I'm going to support whoever? The candidate is the nominee. Is I think most Democrats will do that. That's a really important statement. Is that true? Will Most Democrats must people? We talked to say that but in the end will people come out a Bernie Sanders. The candidate will people who don't like Elizabeth Warren come out with a for people of color come out for Amy Klobuchar. She's ranking kind of zero with them right now. Is Michael Bloomberg going to trip up too many times? What do you think well? I think the question is. Will they come out? Yes if they had a reason so if the Democrats who are putting forward their plans. You know the amy closures in the people who judges of the world. They can't start with a sentence like well. I'm really trying to get support of the black community. How how are you doing that? What are you giving them So that they can show up and support you and I you know people who just has put forward a specific plan. The Douglas Plan for Black America and black voters can read that plan and assess for themselves whether or not they think one he can achieve it in to whether or not it will improve their lives. But it's those kinds of plans details speaking directly to that community. That's how you get voters to turn out so whether or not amy and Pete can put put in the work and earn. Those votes is an open question because part of part of that comes through time and trust and that's the advantage that Joe Biden. Has Elizabeth. Warren is another. I think under covered Canada candidate in the sense that she's building slowly so she's hiring staffers of color. That is a very important factor when you're considering campaigns. Who are the people standing behind the candidate talking through through the policy deal with them? And how it's going to impact those communities of color. Are Those staffers white and have no relationship to those communities? No connection to those communities or those those actually the community leaders themselves. The black lives matter activists the movement leaders who are informing those policies. And so I I would advise encourage voters listening to go. Take a look at who who folks have hired. What staffers are advising these campaigns so that they can actually authentically speak to communities of color and build those coalitions that they turn out November zillions talking about Douglas. Plan to judges plan but a number of these candidates have got develop plans particularly for disadvantaged communities communities of color and not all of them like Mike Bloomberg has been doing are tripping over themselves about that stuff. Elizabeth Warren has has been very strong this week about red lining A lot of these candidates have plans. And there's there's a sense that amongst communities of color and disadvantaged communities in America they have sensibility about these policies. That might they might find attractive in these candidates. Oh No I think definitely and I think that I think what's interesting is also the difference between familiarity and and being accountable to these communities because we have a long history. I mean Bill Clinton went on our Senio Hall and he played the Sax and he felt very comfortable with communities of color. He did the Romans violence and harm to those communities as well like the ninety four crime bill which you know. Biden was also a part of the immigration laws nineteen ninety-six welfare reform. Laws did enormous damage to legal immigrants. That was only talking about Bill Clinton so I think one of the things that these campaigns have to say is you know so someone like a club or a Buddha judge. You have to kind of say you know? I know you know me less right but I think one thing you have to do is judge me by what I will do and not just by the fact that I I seem comfortable in these communities. It's more than comfort. It's also about being accountable to the community. Every notable point. Thank you for that mountain and Lizard having trouble today. It's the end of the day. I'll get my mouth tomorrow morning. Maxwell and Christina Beltran thank you very much for joining tonight and tomorrow after I get a little bit of sleep. Catch the premiere of my new show airing Saturdays and Sundays from eight. Am To ten am eastern. Our first show is going to go in depth about why Michael Bloomberg is seeing a surge in African American support in spite of a week of racially tinged controversy. That is tonight's last word. We eat to live but food is so much more than that. I'm Andrew Zimmer chef world traveler and host of a new series on MSNBC. Join me as I explore our country looking at the biggest social and political questions of the day through the lens of food this week discover how are melting pot of cultures is reflected by the food on our plates. I've spent years in the restaurant. Business and without immigrants and migrant workers our food system. Would COLLAPSE. I'm tackling the issue of immigration on the Premiere episode of. What's eating America Sunday at nine PM EASTERN ONLY ON MSNBC?