Moving Forward with Karine Jean-Pierre


Welcome to words matter with Katie. Barlow and Joe Lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm Katie Barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said had everyone is entitled to their own opinion not their own facts. Words have power and words have consequences. Our guest today is a political activist. Organizer analyst and author her experience dance ranges from presidential campaigns to local politics to grassroots activism. Korean jean-pierre is the chief public affairs officer for move on Dot Dot Org and a lecturer in international and Public Affairs at Columbia University. Korean is also a political analyst for NBC News and MSNBC and and the author of the new book moving forward a story of hope hard work and the promise of America Korean Jean-pierre. Welcome to our matter you you thank you for words matter for having me well first of all congratulations on the book. Your story is amazing inspiring. Thank you I WanNa talk a little bit about you. You are a first born daughter of Immigrants Haitian American And you begin your book with that introduction and talking about in your introduction to politics so take us back to that day in July nineteen eighty-eight when you and your siblings are getting together to watch your favorite Sitcom at the time. I am a different world and it got postponed or off for the Democratic National Convention at the time. Tell us about your family and and how you felt as a thirteen year old watching Michael. Oh Yeah I mean it was wild because I did not grow up in a family of politics takes both. My parents are immigrants. You just mentioned they were born in Haiti which was a dictatorship at the time they both grew up under like I said a dictator a dictatorship so politics having a freedom of speech wasn't something that they knew or understood and so at that young age watching Dukakis giving a speech and he had that story of an immigrant and it was just beautiful. It drew me in because when I was growing up I had to deal with being. I'm the outsider being kind of the other and not fitting in and so when I watched that it just it just did something to me. I was like yes. Yes and so we just felt it. We all did. Of course like you said my mom would call was calling him do Gaga. WHO's like fleas? His name was Dukakis. But yeah it was kind of that first inkling of what it means to step into the world of politics to run for such a large office and to move people right to really be an orator and to re AH presence where you could unify folks and make people just feel something about this country about what we have is a democracy and part of that feeling at the time also came from the song selection that night in Atlanta which was Neil Diamond's America. America is a little bit about that song. I mean that song as if you listen to the lyrics of that Song Very much fit into the story that Dukakis was trying to tell. We're coming to America being an immigrant. What America's all about? How immigrants are the fabric of this country and It really really resonated in the book I talk about how we all just jumped up and started dancing and singing the song and it wasn't until I was writing the book that I actually knew it was like Neil diamond road. The song who sings song and I looked it up I was like Oh okay. I am sure he appreciated. So you say that you wrote the book Not just to tell your story but to make politics feel all and see more accessible to others that are interested in that may not think that it's as accessible as as you want them to see I'm into anyone who wants to take part your path to being a political operative was not the usual one. Oh not at all talk about that journey and how it can lead to you and your experience in in thinking about writing the book I wanted to like you said write a memoir but also a call to action a sense of urgency. Really trying to push people to get involved in politics but in writing my personal story I wanted to be raw and honest and I and I share a lot. I share a lot of ups and downs some hardships that I had and the reason. Why did that because I wanted to connect with people and also be authentic and if anybody ever felt that they were having her timing they couldn't get back up? I was hoping that my story we would help them. But in that process I tell will how I got into politics like I said my parents are immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself and so growing up in that family and the immigrant family that Haitian culture. They wanted me to be a lawyer Doctor Engineer and for me it was the doctor and so I got pushed in the pressure in the community. And you know when we we are. The apple of our parents is right in for many immigrants and people working class people poor people in general. You are the person that's going to help lift your entire family out of the situation that they're in and so it didn't work out for me. Being a doctor was not in my path I suffered through some mental health issue. I talk about it really in detail detail in the book and so took some time to figure out what was my passion. What was what was it that was going to do and went to Columbia University? Got My masters when I was there. David Dinkins was the first African American mayor of New York City became a mentor. ESTER FUCHS WHO's really fiery amazing feminist a professor also at Columbia and Barnard became a mentor of mine. I went to Haiti for the first time came back and I was like okay. I want to get involved. Make a change and they said Oh you should get involved in politics do policymaking do legislation. You can change people's lives in that way so it was in my mid twenties that I decided that I was going to go into politics and I write that I write that story because many people they don't feel like politics as you said is accessible. You hear stories of folks in there like eighteen nineteen or in their teens. Who Know that? They're going to get into politics. Join Clubs who are part of a legacy family and it is a easy trajectory and for many people who look like me or grew up like me. It's not something that you think of or that is accessible so the point of the story is to say. Look I made it I. I got into politics. I got to work in the White House and you can do it too. It's not easy. It's hard but there is a path and we can all do this one of the things that you also make accessible in the books in addition to politics is at least finding a way to get mental health or talk about the health. I'm curious how you use the word raw which you most certainly are in the book about your experience in your journey going from not being able to even identify it and talk about it to to now being able to talk about it on broad platforms to many different groups of people from all different walks of life and backgrounds and encouraging people to speak speak about mental health issues to be comfortable talking about it themselves and to seek help whether it's your favourite running or seeing a therapist or something like that and I have plenty of political questions but I wanNA talk about That journey of for you being able to talk about that encourage others and if you've heard feedback on the book trail about making that accessible supposed to So mental health is so stigmatized and I wanted to talk about it in the book because I wanted to maybe find a way to not have it stigmatize in such a way and I'm going to be very honest to your listeners. Look I try to commit suicide. Thank goodness it didn't happen and I wasn't successful and so it was such a deep deep horrible time for me. I wanted to share that with folks and on the on this book trail. It's been amazing. I've had Had One mother came up to me when I was out in California and I've been ever been to Missouri Phoenix Massachusetts Georgia Florida. I've been every aware of Mitt. Everybody basically basically running a president like you're running to pay principal Yay finally gone. Hold me but she came to came up to me and she was crying and She had apparently written a book by her. Her son had committed suicide and I gave her a big hug. And we just kind of my letter cry and was comforting. Her and and I told her. Thank you for sharing. And she thanked me for sharing. And I've been I've been in most of the the audience That I've had and we talk about these different hard issues. People are people crying people are emotional and I think to myself myself. Well if I can change one person's life than I've made a difference with this book and then I think that really matters to me and so I've been getting you know really emotional strong feedback from the book and just from the talks that have been doing because not everybody has read the book when I talk in front of them and having that raw raw honest conversation seems to matter people need it and I think in many communities. We don't talk about it. We don't talk about the health. We hide it we. We don't talk about it freely. We don't talk about getting therapy and you see that playing out or people coming up to me and we're having those tough conversations and appreciating that that I shared that in my book while we are talking about it and since the topic came up. I want to let anyone know that if they are having suicidal thoughts or or what is called suicidal idealization. There is a suicide prevention line. That is twenty four seven and the number is one eight hundred two seven three eight eight to five five Korean mentioned in the book and we wanted to mention it here now back to politics will thanks for doing that. It's very important. So you mentioned watching watching Barbara Jordan at the nineteen ninety two Democratic convention and we actually did an episode on her speech from the House floor of you a few episodes ago featuring her and that incredible speech talk a little bit about her and how she inspired you so I just think black young girl in the eighties nineties is trying to figure it all out and you don't see a lot of representations you don't see people who look like you on TV just in general certainly not in politics. And so when I saw her and heard her I mean right she is just she just blows you away. Her voice just blows you away and it calls you you too attention so you hear her and her oration. You're thinking who is that and you listen to everything that she has to say. She commands hands a room. And I remember just the first time I saw her and I was like who is. Who is that and So representation matters seeing her and then reading about her about how much of the barriers she was able to break through in Texas of all places. I mean there's that story that one day. She was like governor for a day back in nineteen seventy nine so it say about it. It saves for a woman and it's aimed for a woman of color. I mean just a whole thing Georgia's still working. Yeah well That's a whole nother conversation Georgia. Yeah so it it just it just mattered. It just mattered to me and I remember reading a book about her when I was at that age too when I when I first learned of her and tried to just eat it up all the information that I can about who this woman is. And how did she get to where she got to. And even then even though I was like you mentioned eighty eight Dukakis ninety eighty two with Jordan and then even Obama down the road and Jesse Jackson as well because of all this representation that we all hunger for. I still didn't really think about Getting into politics no not in eighty eight nine ninety two not at all not at all. It wasn't until really Grad school that that I thought of it and then many of us were inspired by Obama's two thousand four convention speech and remember wanting to move to Illinois and just working for the guy named Barack Obama who is also an amazing orator. By that point I was already in politics but even when I heard Jordan when I heard Cockatoos uh or what I heard about Jesse Jackson's just kind of historical run. I never thought that I would get involved in politics because it just seemed like another world world right. It didn't make sense kind of jumping for once one state to another state it felt like very elusive and And that's why. Write the book because many many people like me at that time feels like Oh what is this. It feels like magic almost right right. So you worked for Tisch James Who is currently serving as the attorney general for the State of New York and has a little bit busy with a little bit busy? That are going on right now. tell us about her and what kind of leader she is. I knew Tisch James when I worked in the New York City Council and at the time when I was at the New York City Council in two thousand four and five if she was a newcomer and she had just got an elected and I remember watching her kind of rise. At that moment you knew that she was going to be a rising star. There's certain candidates that you meet and you just know they're going to do more than where they are currently where they've walked in the stage they've walked in on and she was that person and so in two thousand thirteen when I was asked to basically run her runoff campaign just for a few weeks and she didn't have a campaign manager throughout her primary race and I was asked to jump in and just get her through that Hump and she was running for New York. City public advocate. If she had one which he did would be the first Woman of color to have one in a city wide Election and so it was a big race for that moment for her and for the history that she was about to make can she did make and it was just an interesting campaign because she didn't have a lot of money and I was the first campaign manager that they had and it was stepping into something so different and she's she's amazing she somebody who energizes folks. She's a great grassroots organizer. She's a big presence. She walks into the room. She has that presence in the room and people looked to her look to her to get them engage and and to follow her leadership but it wasn't easy. Raising money is not easy especially for women women of Color and And it was a big race it was a race at ended up being very racial is unfortunately a became very ugly in those days of the runoff but it was a huge victory for all of us I was really honored to have been on on that campaign and led her campaign and help them get to victory and now she's doing big things for the state of New York and we'll see where she goes careen. Nobody knows more about losing campaigns than me my first three presidential but for me. There's like two lessons out of that one. Is You make your best friends on campaigns that you don't end up fighting with people over jobs because you're all unemployed together and you learn a lot about your strengths and weaknesses. This is not just of the candidates which yourself too flawed candidates in particular. You worked for John Edwards and Anthony Weiner talk about what you learn there. So it's interesting because Let me start with Anthony. Weiner I worked for Anthony Weiner in two thousand eight for about three three or four months trying to remember here and it was between tween John Edwards and Obama so John Edwards Anthony Weiner yes I know I know how to pick them but at the time when I worked for Anthony Weiner he was seen as the darling of the Democratic Party. He was looking to run for New York City. Mayor People had thought. Oh He's going to be mayor governor or Senator One day I mean they. They had held his career at high regard and I actually had a very good working relationship with I learned so much from him. And and look I know that It was reported that he wasn't the Best Boston. His colleagues didn't really care for him but my relationship with him was was was very good one of the things I learned from him as his press secretary. At the time when I worked for him he was the amazing communicator. He was dog. Get hard worker and the reason I wrote the chapter flood candidates as because we all have to deal with it. Especially when you're young you elevate hey you put someone on a pedestal. And everybody's flawed. We are offline and what happens when you put someone on a pedestal and they fall. And how do you manage through that. What do you do and I write that chapter? Because I want young people to be able to maneuver through that and you have to worry about your career you do you have to worry about. How are you going to get past this? What is it? You're going to do to get past this flawed candidate that may have just shaken. Everyone's life up so I ride John Edwards and John Edwards also had a good relationship with him and at the time we were when I was working for him it was in the two thousand eight presidential and it was just rumors at the time of him having an affair and then later on we found out that there was There was a a child eld involved in this too which is kind of sad if you think about all of in how went down but you have to go through this as a campaigner. These are extremes. These are two extremes James. I think these two candidates or these two political profiles but it can happen. And so how do you maneuver through that. How do you get past that? And one of the advice that I give as we should not put people on a pedestal. We should care about the issues care about what they represent but putting that person on a pedestal could be airy daunting at the end. Could be if you have a flawed candidate. Obviously this is another issue where I share your pain. But I'm wondering how do you compartmentalize art mental is i. I think you're right that all candidates are flawed. All humans are flawed. Yeah some are bigger flaws than than others but working in a campaign you're giving your life to it. How do you sort of block out? The things that you know are the flaws every candidate and I guess I mean rationalize may not be the the right word but work toward the things that you know are right it is Joe. It's such a good question because it is hard. I know and I've worked on some losing in campaigns clearly worked for some flawed candidates and It's hard because the young folks that I was working with my peers. They put their heart out for or candidates. And it's it's hard. It is really really hard but I see it as the bigger picture. I have to try and go beyond the person and think okay. I'm working for this person because I wanNA make a change. I want x to happen because it's important to me or they have said something to me that has moved me or they have a platform warm. That moves me and so I- i- compartmentalize it in that way about the issues. And what is it that we're here to do. What's the purpose who whose lives? Are we trying to change and you. You hope that you are working with the right person and you get that in. That person wins and they are true to their platform. But it's hard it is. I saw this many times like I said. It's hard to disconnect that and not feel that emotion for the person But we just have to do it because it's just you have to save yourself. You're working twelve hours working seven days and you have to be able to have your own life. You have to be able to kind of divide that and not be all oh land emotionally on a campaign because it's not good for you. It releases not healthy. Can we agree that. It's more fun to win. Oh my gosh. It's so much more fun to win. Dan which is why Obama's amazing that campaign but it is. It's just more fun to to win. It sucks lose. I mean that is just the truth. It sucks to loose use so talking about campaigns are want to ask you what the Democrats got wrong in two thousand sixteen what they got right and twenty eighteen and and what they need to keep the momentum going into next year. Yeah you know I talked about twenty sixteen it was like the other lous perfect storm for Donald Trump. It really wise. Is I think you think about it. You step back and there was low turnout for Democrats or low turnout general. which is a problem? There was a misinformation mation campaign. There was an energy that was missing from two thousand sixteen campaign. There was a swing we went from electing the first first African American president to swinging a whole new different way and historians will say that happens that tends to happen in our history and and I think many of us on our side. We're not awake. We were not paying attention. A we thought. Oh my goodness she's GonNa Win Anyway. I'm not going to go out and vote. Oh I'm not excited about about her or there's no way we're GonNa let him. It was just complacent and there was voter suppression. If you look at Wisconsin hundreds of thousands of people could not go and vote one of the states that we needed to get to that wonderful to seventy I mean that's that's the name of the game and so I think the lessons that were learned and I think people woke up after twenty sixteen. I talked to folks that I know and the fear. I mean you have folks who are really really scared about what's happening in this country especially if you're a person of color if you're a woman if you are part of the Muslim community if you're Jewish if you are of a community that is vulnerable you're worried right now and I think there's a reason why you saw a historic number of women coming out and running in two two thousand eighteen. Because they saw they saw the writing on the wall in what was happening and they needed to go out and vote. It's not easy to get women to go to run for office not just vote. Oh but to run and women raised their hands and said they're going to run for office and so. I think it was a wakeup call. A real wakeup call for folks. And they've been watching and what's been going on for the last three years and it's scary the divisiveness the ugliness and I think that's what you saw in twenty seventeen in states like Virginia in Alabama. You saw twenty eighteen in taking the house. Back and some governor's race especially in the upper upper midwest and Dan. You saw recently in Louisiana and Kentucky and now Virginia's Blue and I think people are awake and I think there is this awareness awareness of okay where we taking this country. What direction are we going to take this country and November twenty twenty matters and who are we as a country and I I feel like that's resonating very loudly now for whoever is the Democratic nominee? They have a hard job. I think we're going to need a movement we're going to need a movement movement to win in twenty twenty and so they have to be able to tap into that energy and create a movement and get more energy you. How are you going to get those four point? Four million people who did not come out and vote in two thousand sixteen but did in two thousand twelve for Obama and stayed home. And these just stayed home in twenty-six. How do you get them back out? How do you get folks who don't normally vote to come out? How do you energize the black community? How you energize young community so that is going to be really early? Release still tough to do. Even though people are wake you still have to keep that energy going and it does matter who is at the top of the ticket of the folks that were on the stage in Atlanta to any of them strike you as particularly able to lead a movement of the type that you just described. I think that the the candidates have to do a better job on saying why they are running and how they're going to win and really put out the existential essential threat. I have not quite seen that. I think it's great that we're talking about issues. It's a primary and that's what we should be doing and I think most of the the Democratic candidates are kind of on the same on the same kind of trajectory right. They WANNA make healthcare affordable and more accessible great. They WanNA fix immigration great. They I wanNA make sure we have a better standing in foreign policy. I mean there are things that they actually all agree. There's varying degrees but they want the best for this country in so now it's really really convincing folks. How are we going to win in twenty twenty and? I don't think that they've done that but I do. Think that I'm I'm in a place where the nominee could be a bus and I will go vote for the buzz. I think that we are at a crossroads crossroads in our country and if we do not get out and vote in twenty twenty. I'm scared. We are a young democracy people. Oh forget that and we have someone who steps in our democracy every single day who has not read the constitution steps on the Constitution who debases the the office that he holds and it scares me scares me for our democracy. In what does that mean and I worry about that three. Let me ask ask you if you were the campaign manager. For any one of the three of the top four candidates warn Bouche edge and sanders each of them have have a real base of support in each of them have not yet connected with minority communities. What is one of them have to do? I mean I can imagine a situation. I'll pick one randomly Warren. If she figures out a way to do that she has set herself away from the pack. But how would you advise Any of those three candidates. So here's really the problem. I think that they the three of them have binding is just a known quantity and he was has Obama's number two black folders no ham they respect him they appreciate him so the question is and black. Voters want to older older black voters in particular who support Biden they want to be Donald Trump and right now they are not convinced that the other three can beat Donald Trump. And that's the thing it's like. How do you move? How do you move black voters who are with Biden over like? How do you convince them that you can beat Donald Trump? That's the number one thing and it is a very difficult thing they're going up against not having the name. ID except for Bernie not having the name ID that Biden has and so it is tough so it is continuing to get out there. Be Authentic people want you to be authentic fantastic and policies and plans are great but they want you to be authentic. They want you to come and ask them for their vote and convince them why you are the person and that they can see standing up on stage next to Donald Trump and they can see you beating him. I don't know how this would look if there wasn't donald trump kind of scenario in this because that's where a lot of voters that's where they think they are like we wanna we wanNA beat this guy. We want to beat this guy who can do you it and right now. That's why Biden doing so well because in their minds they see that they know him. He's comfortable he has so many qualities that they are. Okay with and so it's hard. It is a very hard thing to do but they just have to keep trying keep going out there. Go to South Carolina. Talk to people ask for their votes. Go to to the places where you find. African Americans go into their community and ask them for the vote and convince them why you are the candidate that can be Donald Trump. Oh speaking of a candidate doing exactly that Senator Elizabeth Warren gave a speech on. Black Women in the workforce in Atlanta on the eve of the debate and and Congresswoman Presley had to step in in the middle of that speech to deal with Some protesters that Senator Warren at the time was was leading say their peace in the middle of her speech. What were your thoughts on how she approached what you said they should do? Go to where the people are. I think she did exactly what she needs to do. which is go to where the place where people are? People people are GonNA protest. They're gonNA protest and that's okay and they want their voices to be heard and you have to let them speak their mind and say what it is is that they need to say but I thought great she was there and she tried and I thought she's lucky she had presley to step in and deal with that moment because it is hard it is hard I remember in twenty fifteen with the black lives matter movement. That was a serious situation that young people we're dealing with the death of young Brown and Black Boys Brown and black women girls being murdered and killed and so they were trying to bring up an issue that a truly matter to them and you have to listen you have to listen. You can't turn away from it. You can't pretend it's not there. And so she did the right thing thing by being in there being in the community and talking to the community and sometimes there's a protest and you have to figure out how to handle that in a real way and twenty fifteen. That was tough for candidates dealing with the black lives matter movement and they needed to deal with them in a serious way because they were talking about an issue that affected the community so so speaking of dealing with protesters. You've written up beautiful book. You have a a really fascinating career but a lot of people. Will you know you as the person person who took on a protester to Protect Camera Harris. What was that like yes? It's so it's really interesting. I'm glad you asked me that question because at the time I didn't know he was a protester at the time. Hi My thought. Who is this guy that is coming on stage and I was worried I was worried for the life of and the wellbeing King of Senator Harris who is a black woman a woman of color running for president and we are in a divided country twenty four hours prior to that moment was the Virginia Beach? Shooting was a mass shooting and so I thought who is this guy coming on stage and my instincts just kicked in and it was. I mean it wasn't scary for me. At the time I was more scared for her and I stepped in wanting to protect her thinkings harm was going to be done and it wasn't until he took the Mike. Where you realize? Okay this this is a protester but at the time it was ono. What's happening? This is scary and and I cannot let this happen and I have to tell you. Join Katy that moment. I didn't realize this it started. This nuance wants conversation about how women feel the safety of women. I was shocked. 'cause you had three women onstage through when of color and I heard heard from so many so many women afterward who said wow. I've felt unsafe before. No one has come to my aid or there's times where I just feel. I felt this way I felt all you when this was happening. When you were trying to protect Kamla and so there was this real conversation that I was having with women about their own safety their own agency and and how they feel in the space and how they're treated and so it was an interesting moment it played out for? I did not know think it's GonNa go viral. You know you don't do something thinking it's going to go viral and did and a lot of it is because the emotions it brought up for many many people. Yeah it's it's important to note that there were three women of color on that stage at the time and as is often the case in this country the statistics of the way that violence impacts women of color versus even their white eight peers in this country are dramatic dramatically different and dramatically different in the wrong way. So it's important to highlight that before we let you go. We WanNa we haven't gotten to your day job which we talked about and move on dot org. I WanNa talk about that a little bit. There's over five million members I think but if you could talk a little bit about it and how it started when it started and what. It's looking forward to in the upcoming election. Speaking about the beginning of move Yvonne. I was having a conversation just this morning with a very prominent journalist who is asking me. Did anybody run ads in your defense in. Nineteen Ninety Ninety eight during the impeachment of President Clinton and I said of course they did. It was move on dot. Org that's where that started. That's how it started it. It was a very prominent journalists under forty. So I yeah that's the irony of move on to your point Joe. It started off off just like that. It started off because of how Bill Clinton was being treated and a couple of folks decided to start a petition and it was basically telling telling Congress to censure Bill Clinton move on like enough is enough and so that is how move on with started about twenty years ago a little bit more than twenty years. I think twenty one years now now ago and it turned into a platform of petitions It now has been involved in electoral politics and helping elect candidates it. is involved in pushing policy and legislation and Congress and it is more than five million people and so it is now the largest independent organization out there a progressive organization and for this coming year and twenty twenty we we will mobilize our members. Get them involved in the twenty twenty process because we still have to hold onto the house. We still have a lot to do besides the presidential election. There's a up and down ballot that we have to focus on and his training our members organizing getting them out to vote keeping them educated and aware and this is going to be the next phase as of twenty twenty that we do is really getting involved in making sure we win in November twenty twenty. That also reminds me of one other question. I think is important Gordon to talk about and you talk about in the book. One of the chapters is not all roads lead to Washington. You talked about the importance of state and local politics. Now you talk about the importance of reading the the actual newspaper as opposed to getting our news from twitter feed or even from the online version of the Journal of the Times or the Post. Because that's where you get. All of the local call happenings in. What's important to your daily life? Perhaps more so than the banner headlines But talk a little bit about I think politics is local. It matters it matters who oh holds local offices in your community and your town in near State and being aware of what is happening around you and so I tell people it's important to vote as Americans do not vote. Which is unfortunate? It's always low turnout so we all need to get out and vote and make sure we get our communities involved but we need to lead get into. We need to educate ourselves and read that local paper. Understand what your local elected are doing. It's very important it's It's imperative to your daily life and so I write about that and I encourage people to run themselves and it's just kind of leaning in a little bit more is what I try to do in the book. It's like what else we all need to be a little bit more political active little more involved in our community because it matters so. I think it's good to end where we started. You talked about listening to and dancing to Neil Diamond's America but you talk about that as a little girl and how that gave you optimism for this country entry in for the future of this country and that you still have that Yamassoum so as an immigrant as a black woman as a member of the LGBTQ not Q.. Community explain to our listeners. The reasons for that optimism. He I have to tell you while they're moments where it's really scary and you. You wonder what's going to happen next. I am hopeful. I'm hopeful for so many things. Because their last three years I have seen actions by people who have come together in this country to help all of us for example. The women's March when women came together and I saw it. I remember being on the roof of horror north capital we were doing coverage for MSNBC and seeing all these women just taking over Washington DC with their pink hats and wanting their voices to be heard. I remember that first weekend of the presidency where the Muslim ban had happened and people organically just went to airports took to the streets and you saw this amazing beautiful mosaic folks out there protesting and you had lawyers going to airports offering their services. I thought Oh my Gosh Josh this is this is hopeful. There's been stuff like that move. On held. A families belong together. March were hundreds of thousands of people showed up across the country to you. Give voice to kids. Babies being separated from their parents at the southern border when that story finally really hit the National Airways ways in two thousand eighteen the summer June of two thousand eighteen and how devastating that was but the fact that people came together and lend their voices and made themselves. It was very loud and clear and by the way. Now there's what seventy thousand kids who are who are orphaned and we don't know if they're ever going to be reconnected. I mean this is happening in Dr Name. What's happening with the administration is doing and just the electoral process since twenty? Seventeen of you know what we did in Virginia twenty seventeen now and now Virginia being blue getting Senate seat in Alabama getting gubernatorial seat in Kentucky and Louisiana and all these women running and winning and so I think I think there is hope I think there are things that could make us hopeful that you see people are coming together and and speaking up and now it's can we you take it to the next level in November twenty twenty and I'm hopeful in that as well well. The book is called moving forward a story of of hope hard work and the promise of America. It's a great read. Would recommend it for any young people thinking about getting into politics or people that have young people in their lives looking to volunteer going into an election year. And to get into politics. Kareen jean-pierre thank you. So thank you so much for having me really really appreciate thanks Joe. Thanks Katie Eighty. Thank you thank you for listening to words matter please. 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