Jerry, Ryan and Sam McGee Deliver Laughs, Tears and More in Sidelines & Bloodlines: A Father, His Sons and Our Life in College Football
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City podcast network a collection of charlotte podcast produced in and centering around the queen city and also a proud number of authors only air global radio network broadcasting radio shows podcasts about offers to a worldwide audience homeland. Dissuade the producer and host of this podcast. I'm recovering trial lawyer. I'm the author of a trilogy of books. Were lawyers save christmas kind of a cross between my cousin. Vinny and miracle on thirty fourth street. And i write stories and i love books and love dogs and love beaches mountains and flos fishing sports in reading and more and i'm excited about today's episode. So let's get two days up soon. This jerry mcgee ryan mcgee and sandy co-authors of satellites and bloodlines. Father his son in our life in college football reappears ron mcgee begin attorney sandy. Football is a lifelong passion phone from going up Jerry mckie strike for decades is one of the most highly decorated officials in college football history. Silence of loans rival team up with their father. Jerry show lessons learned between the white lines. Featuring a cast of characters runs from no-name small college athletes and coaches to one name legend such as hopes paternity boat of gays provider rare and often larry's clips inside sound of college officials detailing her love for the game commences accomplished professionals from all walks alive to voluntarily dir sisley insults public criticism and express goal of doing one's job on a very public stage in a way that will hopefully not draw any attention l. That job is from stories. Brawling hassle referees offer small talk george lucas fighter rosebowl heart tugging story. Young signs in the stands will saturday as a stream of profanity. Lateness salts director father drowns out the marching bands. Some delivers last tears. The deeper understanding of the sport we go football. We start the show. Jeremy rating from section early in the book about. Wha in how they do it they do it because they love it. I've learned two things about officials over the years. The first isn't they orleanians mistakes. It's like a player. Turns the ball over or coach calls wrong. Play at the wrong time. The second is truly officiate. For the love of the game they have to especially now youth in high school. Officials have to deal with crazy parents and they're making no money. Most college official aren't making much money. Either they all have full-time jobs. These days their names are out there on social media not once had an officials say they are doing it for the fame or the money. There's not much money and the best you can hope for. Is they do it because they love it. Someone else who loved it. I introduced them to to do this job. You have to learn detachment every game. You work is the most important game. You ever worked. Whether it's michigan at notre dame a rockingham at hamlet. When i first started working high school games in eastern north carolina at least the third of the teams officiated were being coached by guys. I just going to college with but holding is still holding. No matter who who the people involved are so. I learned very quickly to check that at the door relationships teams. You might have read for us a kid. They must names. You can't be objective if you don't and two thousand and two. I worked a houston. Bill between southern miss. An oklahoma state had an incredible wide receiver. A loud watch that kid play early in the game. You had a sixty yard catch but we call it back. Because i got him offensive pass interference. I wasn't alone. Virgil valez longtime great official. Had it to less. Miles was oklahoma state's coach at the and he said word all the way across the field to me. Tell the phil judge this rashad woods. He's a first team. All american and i sent word back to miles. You tell coach that today's eighty two. 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Oh and speaking of audiobooks and now christmas around the corner. I'd like to let you know that my free books the the christmas courtroom trilogy or now on audio books and you can find all three wherever you like to get your audio books and also that libro dot fm. I'm really excited about the fact that i connected Lift an actor in la who is the narrator for this series. His name is bill h jones. He's best known for his role as rod remington from fox. Tv's glee but he's also appeared in a number other shows days of our lives. The king of queens the drew carey show and much much more really funny guy. He does justice to the series. This across between my cousin. Vinny miracle thirty four straight. If you like to read better than you like to listen to audio books you can now get the first book Free as an e book. It's permanent free on all major online platforms including amazon's kindle and we also send you a free copy of that I book if you sign up for the charlotte podcast newsletter. What you can do with the website. We don't Spam you if you do that. That takes too much time. We do provide a biweekly newsletter with the information better authors readings with video links and other information at the craft business riding and what our authors ripped through so. It's great way to keep up with what's going on the show and engage with our author community but enough about books audiobooks and newsletters. It's time to get to this very interesting episode about a family that loved football. You're gonna make Dr jerry mcgee. He's a star. The book sidelines and blood is a father. His sons in our life in college football and he is the father to co-authors ryan sambergen jira fish cows low for many years and was selected. Do so in a number of high profile games remember eight halls of fame including the north carolina sports hall of fame. We're not calling games on the gridiron. Jerry served a senior level or four private colleges and universities in the carolinas twenty. Three years is present wing university. He served two terms in the president's council chair to football issues. Committees represented college football on the board of directors of the national sports official organization for six years. Ron mcgee is espn senior writer in york times bestseller our with gac who offering dale earnhardt junior racing to the finish in two thousand eighteen. You start with. Espn staff of the show rpm two night during which time he began contributing to espn the magazine and espn dot com. Just totally nascar fox. Sports net three seasons and for five years served as editor in chief. It nascar media group for turning to espn. Full-time rod is a five-time sports. Emmy winner six time national mortar. Sports press association of the year and pen the script for the documentary film. Dale near about. Paul newman covered all forms of motorsports in college sports as well as major league baseball. Nfl and everything from space jumping to snowmobile racing. He co host. Marty mcgee on espn radio and sec. Network with marty smith. Sam mcgee is an author trial lawyer and fishermen and the young brother to ride He met his wife marcy while he's an integrator. Wake forest university mirror meknes. After graduating you'll law school and later mr political ten gerry spence. His trial lawyers college salmon. Marcy the proud parents of two children both him speak mandarin. Love sports travel. There's is a household of four people completely adore one another spend most of their limited time supporting each other's pursuits. Spite sam being busy trial. Swim meets and baseball tournaments. His family does allow them to write and fish to an addition to co authoring sidelines. Some blood loss father and brother his debut novel carlos creek is forthcoming from fire ship. Press in two thousand and twenty one. It's a book inspired by families. True civil war store jerem gay walking like you arrive you welcome. Hey how you doing welcome. Glad to be here. Yes so congratulations. Author of the book before we dive into the store to this book Let's talk about the journey putting this together When did you side As the three geese to write this book into this process will say to say that we. We began writing the book Twenty years ago. When i started speaking at the sportsman's clubs a different Rotary clubs around north and south carolina. When i finished speaking someone would say gosh. You need to write a book about this football stores and we just kind of laughed and took a note here and there whatever we kept saying. We're going to write the book. But but obviously i had a pretty demanding job and Ron have demanding jobs. It was really hard to find the time and we finally committed to one another to do it and Sort of more time together and looking at old films and here we have a book. So ryan you kinda took the lead in this you use your narrator voice in the book and then i we trump. The boxes in were salmon. Jour's voice come together from your perspective right. This spoke ron obvious what dad said. I mean it's it's You can't do my job. And i learned in writing this book that that there's a huge part of officiating at work this way. In the sam's job this is just what we do every day. And for sam salmon our kids most of the conversation that we have with our friends when it came to sports which is most of the conversations you have when you're a young boy is Senator dad had done on saturday or where we had been on saturday with that. And so we had all these stories stockpiled. And i was real fortunate that i was able to write a book couple of years ago with heart junior and a book edge came to me and she said you got a little bit of momentum right now i think we could whatever you wanna do. If there's a project you've always wanted to work on. This might be the time to do it. And i was like. I got the one and And called dead. Sam's i think i think we've been telling about it. We should write a book. Well i think we can actually write a book and so we were very fortunate that we were given the opportunity and and I think it turned out. It turned out is great as i was hoping that it was going to cry and picked it up and read it very quickly i was. I don't know if we were facebook Whatever saying we got to get this next question. You sam You get. Your father was accounts president ryan. He's espn writer commentator. You're a lawyer. You're in the trenches court. So headed a father in two sons over successful different professions figuring out how to do anything together much less. Well you know you mentioned dad's one that refereed four hundred football games at ryan's sports so you could have asked me. What's the law. You're doing here well. One of the best things about this land is is that it. We all live within three or four miles of each other But ron are busy running around and and have teenage children and have all their activities disorder forced us to get together and do this and it's real easy for me to say i don't have time for this. I don't have time for that. Or or for ryan to say. Hey i'm covering this game this race. Got this article right But this of this kind of made us get together and a lot of times. It was over launcher eating pizza. Watching game films ron's basement but it really made us get together and do what we really enjoyed. Do which is around and talk about these about the story of I'm glad we did the book. So that the books out there but for no other reason it really made us get together. Reminisce of some stories to their listeners Sometimes i listened to hear about how riders work in early come together in this really probably a division responsibility in iran. You said that you wrote a book. The delaware our junior giradi net yourself researching yourself. This is a book that requires more Together and talk about the division responsibility in how you actually called us off. Well i kinda basically. It was sitting down with sam like you said at lunch or sitting down data at lunch and i thought i had lantis a pretty good view of what all the best stories were but the most pleasant surprise in whole process was the very first launch. I how would sam a over by park road shopping center. He told me five stories. I had never heard inside. I thought i knew all the stories. That's just you know egocentric sportswriter guy thaw. I remember them. All i was there and within five minutes. Sama toby to three stories in mad at dad. 'cause book came out a while ago and still a radio interview here. He tells another store. And i'm like am probably should have been in the book so it's added that i i. I really believed that. I knew more than i knew. And i think that was the best part as far as the riding responsible and it just was a matter of you know. I kinda knew what the time line was and dad had talked about. I knew the points that he wanted to make about officiating but also knew what the highlight stories were for for sam myself and so it just was a matter of putting a time line together in a way. And and then we had all these amazing crossover stories with the likes of bobby bowden and mike leach. And ray ray lewis in these guys in trying to figure out way to we those and we just kind of gave them their own sections. We use those as the chapter breaks which i was a good way to not have to shoehorn those stories in in between our story. Let us have the chapters. And then we'll let you know the the celebrities. Let them have their own deals in between so once these guys kind of agreed to the format. It just was a matter of me. Making sure that i had all of the best stories from them and dropping that into account the outline that we put together as as a very readable book and personal reflections in it to get good reception. His inscription right option came on larry stories. About the strange place. Referees powder sporting world found myself Into a tail family fathers and sons. Now we never forget the way dot com that sort of property question for me star with jerry. You got this family of you and your children the in college football talk for just a moment jerry. About what that meant to you to have your son's in your life while you're going through this experience as a college official We've always done things as a family you know. We've made decisions as a family. We traveled as a family. And and it's been maybe a little closer than than some families. But i had a job Our primarily a fundraiser for universities. Before i became president of course after your president. You still still fundraiser. But i saw. I had to travel lot and a lot of times i'd leave on on tuesday. Get home on thursday and pacman football bag and leave. Wait wait on friday. And get home saturday night or sunday morning. So if we're going to have family time you know. I had to somehow figure out a way to involve them with me and so occasionally the limit on tobacco road you know how to game at carolina duke or wake forest even virginia. The family could go. But so many times i was going to florida. State was going to clemson house going to new jersey. Some and they couldn't go. But but i'll try to run with me occasionally but just the two of us not take slam occasionally just the two of us encounter involved in what we're doing. Let them set in on the officials meeting and have dinner with the officials. And maybe have a chance to make the head coaches and and so kind of let them understand what. I was doing no saturdays when they weren't a rail so but was about as on to get them involved as much cut. And that's nice as saying you're the youngest of here. The two brothers show you accidental storing book by a ficials. Everyone take it off as a kid we kinda off-balance probably trump From your perspective as youngest and tag along with your dad. What made you to be a part of this experiences. Her father's mitt. Everything me you know when you're the youngest and Near a small kid like i. Was you a lot of times where you feel like you're having to fight your way in. Make sure you're getting the attention that you might walk and This it always made me feel like i was a part of it and you know like after game when the when the crew is in a hotel conference room eating pizza talking about this player that play or or you know whether it's to maybe there's some criticism but more often it's to say. Hey good job on this player you really had that Downfield play nailed. You know. I'm in the room you know and even get to contribute to that conversation as as a pretty young kid and that really made me feel part of it or if getting into the stadium early in a walk in the tarp the orange bowl or the rosebowl the day before the game at the orange bowl when they're trying to figure out how to run the buffalo across the field from colorado Or being a ball boy at scrimmages at nc state. When i was a kid it did it. Did a lot of things made me feel like i was part of the game but also made me feel like i was part of my dad's world world of adults out there and that's that was kinda my best glimpse behind the curtain when i was a young kid. And i think that was part of the thing. The referees hatemi dad traveled a ton. But you know he was there. He was coaching my baseball teams. He was involved in our lives. And i'm not sure. I realize how hard he was working to be present for us even when he had a job that made him traveling a hobby that made travel I got addicted to that hat. And i mean it. My teacher couldn't get me to take it all and literally fussing trying to get me to take it off for school picture and i'm absolutely you're refusing and other kids chime in some of our yell and take it off and smoke keeping and and as the hatch state oh my head Mom would have to fight me to get the hat off for me to take back. Your is continuing doubt. It was training to one day deal with the latest. Wade's of the world. Exactly so you are also very proud of your dad. And i think having read the book your colleagues. Espn you may. You may comment. Did you see that official do that. So we know there's a controversial so talk about that. A little bit being able to be present involve as you're pursuing this career in sports That's would sam's talking about about getting to the stadium early. That's addicting like once you get a taste of that like you know. I've never been drugs. But that's walking into that stadium and that feeling that you get in your spine you gotta get that hit again and a. Yeah i get that feeling again. And so i the first time that sound. I've one house hotline credential. Were i was thirteen. He was ten. i remember looking around distinctly and thinking. I got to figure out how to do this. All of these people here today on the sideline photographers and the washington. Post in the press box. They're getting paid to be here and their feeding them lunch. How do you. How do you get to do this for a living. He's are all grown adults in so awesome my whole life. I remember the second time. I had credentials Photography rentals was duke maryland. Game at duke and at halftime the photographers real. Like come on. Come with me and we walked up through. The grandstands went into the press box and they gave us a box with a barbecue sandwich and some fried chicken and a chocolate chip cookie a bag of potato chips and miss north carolina. Walt bought and said hey guys how are you today. And then mike while i. Hey guys what's going on. I was like and then we walk back down to watch second half. I was like i have to do this. And so my goal goal at that point was to figure out how to be able to do that for a living and and that was You knock on wood covid notwithstanding that's what i do. Yeah my colleagues they are. I think jealous of the perspective. I have on the game and osama both have owned the game. That other people don't but you taught the kids coaches or former players and they learned the game differently and so salmon. I learned the game different. But even this past january of twenty twenty back when everything was normal in the press box the superdome jumped up during the tv timeout with ficials arguing. And all my colleagues like okay. I got no no watch him. I said there s in the back. Judge is really mad. I said because the guy all the way across a field just threw a flag. That was nowhere near where he was. And i said look at them. They're having an argument. The white hat was was officiating. An argument between these guys. And they're all ok ryan whatever. It affected the crew. The next couple drives. That's that's the way. I watch football and You know sam tells a great story in a book about sitting on the top row of orange bowl and screaming because louisville had twelve men on the field on defense. sure enough. that was the flag. Does starting this guy. I mean one hundred miles fulfill this guy was like. Do you always count the players on defense. Sounds like yeah. don't you didn't everybody. That's kind of how we learned a game. I love how tag along the part of the experience. What are the reasons. Do this Same reading this book is when i was younger. A high school official. He comes from a lot of officials fishing without officials. Who went on to the nfl. He was selected Of the white house travel was probably fourteen or so. I have my little eight millimeter at passes and now he gave it up. Come watch me play football because you can figure out friday night watchman. Fridays to that whole experience. I mean i can relate directly to awesome some of the stories that they told so and also We're gonna put this out in december two thought. Really enjoy this of your weather today. So report out too close adversary his death cup years ago. Just for be about this topic knowing how important west ham. Though i am a france he made as official. I guess jerry. That is one of the things that comes out of this. You know some people have mission buddy. Some people have buddies they watch or are they play cards with you. Had a group of france that you wet and officiated football games with needed hold on doing it In hospital you sometimes gotta run out four. That's exactly right and literally a my best friend. The worl- guys officiated college football with and That was a hard thing about retired from officiating. Was you know you don't bump into those guys. They laid little from boston to miami. So you know you probably never gonna see them again and now. That was really hard part. Because for nearly four decades had been a- vital par part of my life. one thing. I will a mission. You're dead fish hostile. That's where the fun is you know when you get to work. You know when he work in the rose bowl is a great experience but not a lot of fun because it kind of becomes work. But i always. I was so appreciative of the men. Who helped me move along in hospital. Officiate you've got me started. I used to always go see them. If i had the orange bowl or rosebowl always by hat or shirt or something down rocking out. Have lunch with a. We had her shirt. appreciated them. Helping me get or was. And i got my last year. The national championship game last game took a bunch of rockingham l'herbe and handed out to people that i loved and enjoyed working with over the years. Now let's talk about the book time before we jump in store near its sidelines. Bloodlines and is father is signs in her life and college football on the sidelines. Think i where songs come from jerry. You're positions was asylum. Yeah again to college Salon because we didn't have fill judges. We only have five officials but when they added the position. I moved down field basically. You've you're twenty yards downfield with the plank coming right at you and you got a lot of long run you got past interferences. Golan plays in line place. I love plays. He got illegal blocks on kicks. And that sort of thing but it's It required a great deal of running much more than most of the position so but now that's enough to be the question. I guess i did. That was fast enough to keep. I knew it could keep up with a running backwards. You know our neighbors Particularly back in the shelby days back in early or late seventies early eighties and they'd see dad run. Wind sprints in the backyard is running backwards and In the reasonable. Because that's you know if you watch the officials that's an infected one time that i've ever officiated anything i the. Sec network South carolina scrimmage and. They put me a dad's position and the next day. My calves were just screaming and a reasonable because running backwards on those turf shoes for from three and a half hours and so yeah good and plus you get a head start in the beginning. They didn't give him a headstart end of his career. They give them a head start so you know if he wouldn't they got beat to the goal line would give him a hard time at the same conference book where you can call us. Oh yeah now. I thought i nailed it but it was stunning. You talk about the sideline. It was stunning. Having stood on the sideline for all those years. From when i was sam our ten thirteen years old. You don't think there's that much of a difference when you walk five feet on the other side of that white line is that day. I walked out there when by studying this. Whatever man i got this. I was behind the whole game and now say this. The guy on my sideline a i had to help him because he just had like knee surgeries a former. Nfl players how to run down the field with every play. Got behind me and the one play i thought on nailed was right at the goal line. And if you read the book you know the only couple of plays of dad's career that he's still you know still sex. Were all these kind of corner. Pylon you know End zone plays. And i have one of those thoughts. I just nailed that man and then we had an evatt time with evaluate repressed box. He chewed me out. He's i think he's got words. Were your father was never out of position in however many years he officiated in you were not in position all day today. Running back thousands of acres of back and colleagues always ran back. It's always felt like you'd better go back because the running fast achy. Just one sam of it. The other part of time was bloodlines. And i can see lines. Sorta go in family when each Sometimes get kind of You know body else. I last fake with all the yelling screaming and everything else is coming on. Where did that talk. But i think it's primarily from the from the family aspect. Although i'll tell you haven't been on the sidelines for some games particularly when i got the ball boy scrimmages at nc state and ballboy firm. That does a lot of actual bleeding goes on satellite but But really it was. You know the fact that it's not just football but it's what it meant our family to all of us. Obviously we've already talked about you. Know how How ryan and app came along getting to go to games as a kid and how it made us you know see that adult world and and have a close relationship with our father but but really you know mom i mean you can tell that reading the book you know. Nobody enjoyed those weekend trips. And the travel to different places More than mom did i. Don't think anybody enjoyed the bowl game trips. More than mom did for some reason. When i think back on it now the game was it is important to her. As it was us. Actual game But for some reason the one example it always comes back to my mind is when we went to the rose bowl. The first time dad had when it was arizona state ohio state and it was going to determine the national championship. And the part of it. That mom loved the best was we got to go to the big warehouse where they were assembling the floats and had those millions flower petals and they were attaching them to those A floats for the for the term roses parade. And i mean she was on cloud nine never left that warehouse away. That ran and i didn't want to leave the football field but we got to get in their early to walk around the field but but she loved all that she loved all that as much as any of us. But that would just kind of close. When we talked about bloodlines. It was all of us as a family Enjoying college football and everything that went with your book covering in china it's It's three stadium. Sad lands your father's in the middle smiles on your faces. It just looks like you're join this experience. Which was the that was the first acc championship game. It was played at the gator bowl in jacksonville florida. State and virginia tech. We thought that would be my last game. We'll have planned to retire that year. And the picture. I plan to retire but actually Decided to stay clean warriors out both high tailed at the jacksonville. We were going to see dad's the last game. So yeah no we love. We left home with little babies hoping. And we we got down there and listen but that day. It's funny because salmon. I as we got older and had kids that we weren't able to go to games like we used to and that day was one of my favorite memories of all time because salmon that you look at that picture stadiums completely empty. So that's what we're talking about. We got there early in salmon. I went out to the fan zone. Try to kick some field goals and drank some free dr pepper or whatever was going on out there and then we sat in the state. I was telling my daughter story yesterday about a about samina. Sit in the grandstands at that game and watching martin man's and so it just that was one of the best days and then they made us leave. We were mad. 'cause we wanna leave the game tight game. Sit in a van and that runs off. The field gets van. We're like congratulations on great career. And police escort out to the highway holland. Buback hotel daggers. I think i'll do one more year. Did three more years. I we're gonna come back listening diamonds. Some stores have. You're gonna find out the answer. The question access more excitement You can officiate. Sigma maneuvers rose. Also stay with us that quick. Shout out here to the team that helps me promote The podcast and the authors impair on the podcast starting with the social grip marketing as a crater. I love collaborating with other creative people especially kind social. Greta know craft and i appreciate they've done with the look and reach of schaller's podcasts facebook and instagram pages. Waiter been easy and fun to work with their efforts show they generally want the podcast seed even have kind of a nice bedside manner for those off the wall ideas. I throw at them from time to time. Offer either clever tweak or better the instead it has a podcast mission to help authors. Tell their stories. I didn't realize until way explain it to me. it's social media's whole best storytelling and they work hard to digest that. Oh and did. I say they have a sense of humor. Definitely a plus in the world of social media and then when it comes to Publicity and engaging with events And also helping to authors. I really love working with spellbound public relations. Particular hannah turner. Who is the chief guest literary cook bar wash through there. She brings so much energy incitement to the table that even the most self conscious introverted. I don't own horn. Kind of client will find himself excited about marketing provided smart creative and tommy marketing ideas and actions for this podcast not mention furring talented authors to the show. She's an initiator who is responsible created easy to talk with and makes marketing fun. What else could you want in a publicist. So if you're like his first name social media hell for some publicity helped You know whether you're an author business. Whatever checkout social marketing and spellbound public relations and hate just one more thing. Since it's christmas here. I thought i would share just a little clip from the third book and the christmas trilogy sam. Who's on the show. Appreciate this being a lawyer. This is a sane end the book where one of the protagonist has to deal with the somewhat of an unruly lawyer on the other side. The first few months of the reindeer hubbard lawsuit. Todd raker three things about torino winter. The president of tiptop toy company his new client. She was headstrong mysterious an uncompromising her behavior today in her deposition was no exception. The court reporter. I'd tarinah ready to take down. Exactly what she said. But torino was silent in response to the last question. The reporter glanced at raker. But he could only shrug. Did you understand my question. Robert greenback was the lawyer for the plaintiffs victims. He liked to call them. I understood it. Renew replied well. Greenback was impatient is the answer. Yes or no. It's not that simple. And why not because answering. Your question does not answer why. The hover board didn't work. Greenback was a big man when he stood up to get water from the credential. It was all effort with a bit of wheezing. He poured a glass. Took a swallow and turn to the court reporter. Read back the last question. The court reporter complied was top toy company. The manufacturer of the computer chip that caused the reindeer malfunction torino. Winter still. Didn't speak greenback setback down. I will break it down for you was tiptop toy company. The manufacturer of the computer chip. Yes and did. The computer chip control the flying abilities of the reindeer hover board. Yes and did. The reindeer hover board the most sought after christmas present in the last fifty years. Turn out to be a complete disaster objection. Baker said argumentative. Rebecca puppies chest. Mr acre this is cross examination. of course it's argumentative. your client is the one being difficult. Mr greenback this is not closing argument. The objection is to the form of your question in particular. The words complete disaster. Please rephrase your question. You don't think it was a complete disaster. Just a disaster. I'm not the one testifying. Breakers said i couldn't agree. More greenback said record. Didn't enjoy this part of the legal process. Defending deposition was like having a cavity filled with up novacaine. All he do is grunt object when the dentist liked. Lawyer struck his nerve torino. Winter appeared unmoved by the bickering among the lawyers. Her facial expression could best be described as confident but in different she looked to be in her sixties tall fit well shaped woman with porcelain skin complemented by silver gray hair. She brushed a fallen. Strand of that hair. From in front of is is and stared at greenback. I am fully prepared to answer your question. Even though it is ill-conceived presumptuous end sarcastic. Robert greenback became more aggressive. And salting me is not a good idea. I'm sworn to tell the truth mr greenback. That's the way you wanna play it. I'm not here to play with you sir. I can see you or not. A very playful person. Raker made a note on his legal pad that said remind climbed to be respectful and then circled it. Greenback tossed a notepad. We'll come back to this topic later. Tell me about your company. It will come in handy when i got the judgement that put you out of business torino. Winter ignored the jab. What do you want to know. She asked for starters who owns it. I have a fifty fifty partner is name next question to rena said one that has something to do with this lawsuit. Greenback slammed his fist on the table. Causing rakers papers to scatter and the water and his glassed swirled he shouted at raker. Do we have to go to the judge about this behavior. Raker remained calm picked up his glass and took a sip of water. Perhaps we should i. Can the judge know you lost your temper and tried to break my table on the other hand it would be quicker if you just laid a foundation for your question. Fine greenback said ms winter was your partner involved in overseeing. The manufacturer of the computer chip. No you're not going to tell me his name. No and it's not a he. Honestly what makes men think that women can't own a successful business. Greenback didn't apologize. Let's focus on the business itself headquarters. Greenland manufacturing plants. Us uk italy and argentina. Where was the computer chip made greenland. Who designed the chip. You're looking at her now. We're getting somewhere. Greenback said torino. Winter brush some lint former sweater. It took you long enough listeners. Back with the gerry. Ryan is sam mcgee comic book sad bloodlines of our life in college football. And we're gonna talk and stories now from the bucket. One of the stories is about the interaction that takes place between officials coaches have in their house what they call the wall of screaming and ranch concern the rave During the sam the so you ready. This is about the middle of perry picking up the space. That always grabs the attention. Visitors is what. I have always called the wall screaming. It's a series of framed photos. Purchaser newspaper photographers around the nation images. We spotted on sunday mornings airport. Newsstands while we were waiting to fly back from games or in the later years on university websites. Many of them are big months. Standing at the goal. Line at penn's penn state's cartagena's halls and a touchdown against usc in the kickoff classic the meadowlands in nineteen ninety-six up with frank howard at clemson in nineteen eighty-six standing with the florida state captains moments before marching to midfield for the coin. Toss it inaugural. Acc championship game in two thousand five eyeballing a catch by george detects. James johnson versus archrival georgia. In the game. They call clean old fashioned hate however the best photos are the angry coaches. There's joe marcin. The man who built south carolina into something other than also ran the introduce the gamecocks black jerseys and their two thousand one space. Odyssey stadium on the sideline during the clemson game in nineteen eighty. Four old dependable is screaming his jaw unhinged and he appears to be pointing directly at dad. Who appears to be totally ignoring the coach. Caption that accompanied the photo in that sunday morning. Paper read coach joe. Marson explains his point of view to a less than interested official. The most notable photo on the wall screaming was taken in tuscaloosa alabama on october. Six two thousand six. When duke visit alabama crimson tide head coach. Mike shula is standing at most two feet off. The back of dad's head is mouth wide open in his hand extended to underline the point he so angrily exclaiming once again dad sued to be purposely ignoring looking toward the scoreboard clock as he fills out his penalty. Car the details of the foul shula. So unhappy about alabama won that game thirty two fourteen. The third from last win of shoeless. Four your tuscaloosa. Ten six weeks later he was far. They replaced him with some guy named nick sabin. What when. I look at that picture of what i think about as amount of pressure. These coaches are under. When mike shula was unload normally me that night. he probably already knew he was finished. It's a reminder that you never truly know what's going on with a coach behind closed doors. The reality is that over. Four hundred and four games of college football officiating. Almost all of it on the sideline our member a few towns. When a coach trilogies flipped out on me and looking back like shula that night throws almost always something else behind it. I think football fans assume and officials out there looking for a reason to throw his penalty flag but the good ones have the complete opposite approach. Typically if a player draws unsportsmanlike penalty or even something like a holding is a really good chance at an official has already warned about it at least once. Keep that up and we're going to have to flag anyone who doesn't believe that needs to do what we have always done it really watch. How good sideline official reacts to coach misfit. A ridiculous amount of time in the game screaming. Yelling and complaints official will walk away from a coach like that. They were warned him directly they will even go to other people on the sideline and say hey. Someone needs to calm him down before he draws sportsmanlike keeps up after that is going to be a penalty or if he breaks to go rule. The clock is ticking. Down to the end of the first half and he's just getting louder and louder. I'm watching the clock thinking okay. We're going to be saved by the bell here. Then with about thirty eight seconds remaining coach young lane. Right into my ear and screamed. You guys were just a bunch of goddamn son of a bitches. Aren't you through my flag personal foul fifteen yards. I went into the white hat. Bob cooper and he said what the hell if you're done that's probably the nicest head coach in america. I said well. I just flagged bob said why what did he say he called me a goddamn son of a bitch. Oh bob said well you are a goddamn son of a bitch. And i told bob well he said you a goddamn some of its to bob said jimmy that damn football. They marked off a fifteen yard story of well. I think i think you did that. Just you can make the president of a former madman sheet averts it it's like picking that section. Yeah appreciate that efforts ask you talked before the break about the early chapters and vote if you can fish night segment of the pikes. You can work rose bowl and talk about that jerry. I come chapters. The puck from Else pasco with college all liver cows landscape of talk a little bit twang which you did initially in urals. Why you can make the statement that you can do that. I guess you can. You can eventually vicious russell. Well i was always broke when i was in college. I could make just enough money in the summer to to pay my bills. And i got back to school but i never had any spending money so i had to have a part time. Job hours outta. I was out playing football game. And i was bored out of my mind when officials said was that you replace the footballs at your to come out and help us fish and so i said well. Maybe i'll try that. So i went out and started -ficiating. Some games may two dollars a game and pretty soon. I found myself recruiting other officials and out training and officials eventually becoming head of the program but usually the the sigma new patient game was played this right after a keg party and usually when we knew we were in trouble when went out for the coin toss nobody could understand us and so there was a little pushing and shoving and and Just a just a smidge profanity and and and you know those kind of the two top social fraternities and so they were a little testosterone and bother to. They were trying to prove who the best fraternity on campus. And at least when you do the michigan notre dame it's an old there we do have rules and we are. There's a coach's controlling them you know. The use of the coach of the new team was the most raucous guy layer so it was a little different than what we dealt with later. Jerry talked about fishing football football. Something you really joy. I take it that there's a lot of camaraderie that occurred after the game with ficials. Remember one story from the book you talked about officiating perha restaurant where everybody always went after the game except tell us what happened after one game. You fish When you went to ed emery was was the coach there. He had went on his the head coach at carolinas he. He was quite a football and He was coaching high and he would always. After the game we go to beaumont's they'd have a little private room for for officials and we go back and we'd have a stake and all compliments coach emrick and we go up there one night to fish a game and three of the four officials were east. Carolina guys of course added played at east carolina and one of his former teammates. Jason brooks was was one of the fficials in the game and so he had laughed. Hasn't got made tonight three east carolina gals here. I'm good late in the game. When a young man for riseborough broke long run apparently win the game. His former college teammate had called holding and so the play got called back and ways. Borough lost the game so in the locker room. The i said guys. We're not going to get a steak tonight out. All of us like that is. It's too nice ago. So we got dressed and we walked into bowman's and and scott like ron said it's kinda like the old west where the slayer walks into barn about it. Stops turns looks at it the way they looked at us and and the manager said what the hell are you know there. We said we didn't then coach. Him recall is yeah. He called and said if y'all came in here to have your wrist state on that day but it was really funny because they had remained friends forever. When i when i was president william he actually had a he had a president's. Pass the come in a game. You could come to come. Sit with me in the press box. Because i loved him as a friend a new more about football than anybody scrape society been younger. You have a family story but you ought to tell swelled for some reason. This always ends up coming back to that. Virginia north carolina game when i was ten years old and it was just a big day for both ryan in me Because like he said he's down there with his camera that santa claus body Standing beside two guys with a giant lenses in the expensive cameras and he probably got the best picture of the day of berry word score scoring a winning touchdown of course. He got clobbered by a unc defensive. Back which might have been only clean edited by unc. Had all day news only about fourteen. Yeah yeah and weighed. Probably you know nanny six pounds and a but apparently at that game Or so i have been told I walked out onto the field Dirt a time out tug don't dad's jersey and And standing at the fifth yard line. And i wanna tell you you guys. Are you guys doing a great job diet. Never i've never confessed to this crime. But dad swears that's the way it went down. I don't know what the the less the least credible part of that story is that i went out of the field that i told them they were doing story. Enron you saying that As a child watching your father In your career theus satellites new lots of stories here about officials with the site to. I'm sorry the coaches with the officials about how they feel. I think there's one where that catches running field holding the card up tonight card calling you be. He's going to go back to high school. And there's a certain industrially. Gerry ford says this fucking catava perspective watching on the sidelines. Did you sometimes feel like Protective of unani feel protective officials general. Now as you watch games. What is your perspective. 'cause you're there to cover what people wanna watch which is the actual sporting contests. They don't necessarily care about officials. But you've got this history. Yeah well and i think i've been labelled officials apologised. Sometimes but the reality is that i have always seen it as part of my job. Just because i'm fortunate enough to have the platform with college football to humanize officials you know and this is what we talked about in the book. Dad set it off the top of the show. Which is you know. Officials are human beings first and foremost and i'm not naive. And i've learned the hard way that i knew that when we wrote this book you know. Hopefully thousands of people aren't Illegal read the book. But i don't expect any of them. The man i love referees books over with but but i think that they're going to respect them a little bit and so that's always been. My goal is on to explain. This is how this happened even when they get it wrong you are. This is how this went down and Years ago for espn the magazine. I used to do a column. That was an official scouting report. And so there's five big games coming up. That weekend i would talk to officials a lot of. I've known since i was a kid and i would say all right. Would you expect to see this weekend from west virginia in texas. And i would say i know this is what it's like on the sideline and this is what this author of what i was trying to illustrate. Underline was how smart officials were and they've done their work and they scouted the teams and they know the teams just like the opposing teams. And just like the the listed and a lot of cases no more than most cases no more than a lot of my television colleagues. Do but i got in trouble with that deal because i started talking to officials anonymously and i got a little too specific. Let's say what. I wouldn't give a name but i'd say a big east umpire said someone's up and it was. It was west virginia dana. Holson houston now. He head coach west virginia At the end of that season those stories. I did got a lot of traffic and and i think it helped a kind of illustrate while trying to say which is officials. Really no football way better than you think they don't just show up and do the game lead and they're not out during a evil are trying to take them down but they understand the teams in the tendencies that they're going to see all saturdays and i got a call from doug rhodes who at the time was the coordinator of football officiating. Jc and as you know from the book was one of das- longest tenured sideline colleagues and doug colleagues. Hey man he says. Will noah just left our end of season officiating meeting with all the coordinators around the country. I said yeah because yeah you gotta stop writing this column at your rights. He said he said we all agree that you make officials look great. He gives me manny is. We've had so. They had to implement a rule that stands to this day. It's been ten years. Which is officials aren't allowed to talk to the media directly and a lot of the officials on the ryan gero because they know they they're the ones that's talked to me the gave me the information and put it out there and now i've ruined it for everyone so this another's a designated person or you just go through the coordinator if you have efficient in question but yeah that's a really long way of saying yes I like to try to educate the public with the platform. Been given on officials and to the point to a lot of my colleagues are like. Yeah yeah ryan. We heard your dad. Was ref thanks for bringing that up again. Jerry we're talking about Evaluations you got the anyway by staff looked after the officials you also gotta valuated about people coming out at church restaurant one of people who kill fan at one time said in a game that you officiated drive out an exception that we've made a difference. Some lady said she said. I wanna ask you. Bet your temperamental because you have people screaming ear critical of the after the fact too that can be wearing when you set headed you separate that sort of because you're part of a community was dealing with it and you sort of had people lean on or how did you deal with that. Because you're you're a best you're used to being in charge and telling people are being worth staying there. You're taking a bronco and you can't really stand up and fend yourself because that's not true position to do it right a deer. The game's only once or twice in four hundred games. I kind of lose it on the field when it comes just went all in all only the and but but usually i i. I wasn't aware it was there. I just i just just built in disag- nor it on a one of my high school. Teammates asked me a couple of years ago as i have the world of you concentrated officiate. Eighty five thousand people screaming at you. And i said you know i never knew there. Will there a. you're doing your job. You're focused on twenty two players and six other officials in two head coaches net. Nobody else is in the stadium. But but During you know when i lived in raleigh. Especially if a game at maryland or virginia. Florida state and clemson. I never heard a word. But if i had a game will the four north carolina schools. When i went to church on sunday morning. Get follow to the car by. Somebody suggested what we could have done are asking me a question. What happened or whatever and i just kinda went with it and smiled and laughed. It would just it would just part of it. I think that anytime in my life or those president wing it or officiating My wife took the criticisms a lot more seriously than i did. It would hurt her feelings and our discount rush off. Because if you think this guy's mad way do you see the guy next week. He's going to be matter. You know just cry stories to and as you look back because around us down from book barry switzer take remarked Don't send booker mckee back next. Time sent jesse. James cam because at least i know that's exactly right. That's how the coaches field i think. Sometimes they when they see us walk in. We slept bridge night before none of us had jobs. And we you know all these apparent only close. We had what we were the game on. Saturday had but you know there were shocked to find out. We were fairly highly educated and and then reasonable people talk shifted. Samsung is this book. Samba's as much about Family as it is anything else some. There's friendships family. You talk a little bit of metro. Mother This is not just you and your brother and your father. It was a family. Yeah yet absolutely was that. I even remember the first college football games i went to before we started traveling. At dad's games mom would take us over the gardner webb seat gardner webb game. Because that's where. Dave is working time and then we ended up living in the triangle. You know from ballboy Nc state to go into a ton of games. By the time. I was looking at where i want to go to college. I had been all these places ten times but with us always was a family trips. Most of the time it was all four of a school in somewhere like dad was saying earlier. There were also times. Where he you know he he would take just ryan or just me As you know. Landis i've done a lot of cases that involve wrongful death and a lot of times what you hear people talking about. Is that time my dad or my mom or whoever the person is that that's died at time that just two of us went to the beach and that time just the two of us did this or that and With us a lot of those memories are at that time. Dad took me to. Uva that time datuk round clumps And it's really it was. It was always the four of us and most of the time was four. I was really enjoying these trips together. Spending time together. And when i look back on it that's what i see i see us as a family and interestingly you know as our our as we all got busy and ram working for the football team at tennessee and dad was Officiating still and taking mom on most of the weekends with him and was at wake forest or later later on in the northeast. So we you know what we ended up talking. Dad's like well. I had boston college west. virginia day. Let me tell you about that ryan's like let me tell you about tennessee. Auburn game and And mom would be like Let me tell you how. Cool the Shopping around boston college. But or i might say. I have to go post from the but but hopers and either we worked together. It was such an integral part of us as a family. We would sort of catch back up at the end of saturday's or maybe on sunday afternoon and say what was what was your life and football today yet. Your mother has passed on a nesovic. Proud of the suffered all three together. Rally thanks. she'd had about to this collection that the three of us put it's Every day is about so and so but there are some days that are much more impactful when it comes to that question and others and the day that book came and i'd they sent three boxes books to the house and mmediately drove. Dad's house said who you go and have a daughter women. We got to watch him. Open it up in a winning brothers houses said who you go and right there in their brand new house in the kitchen. I got to watch them open house. Best part so yeah. What i've always wondered is how would have been you know head. She'd been able to experience that but she listened from the time i was. I can remember elementary school in shelby north carolina and I was very fortunate very early on have teacher in the second grade was l it was like you know she would keep after class and we would talk about writing and she would help me. Do the old construction paper stapled in the middle and turn it into a book is now. I want you to write a book about this. I want to write a about that. And i would come home and talk them all about it. Malls are one day. You're going to write a book real book like one of these books in here and so that's that's Yeah i think about that. Yes so Before we have our reading here we do. We do this on the showers. Podcasts ryan discussion necessarily come good transition to that run of. Let me start jerry. Did you ever thank god. I know you mentioned before the paper saying that. Write this down. jared thank. You would help breidenbach eventually like sports. Also how gratifying. Now have this. Well it is very gratifying. it's And not only did we get to spend a lot of time together but The reminiscent brought us back into the company of a lot of people that we loved and cared about over the years. And i'll a quite a few of the officials who help me get started in college football and the ones who helped me move to the acc along with us but it was really fun. Just to reminisce about them and remind ourselves of the we would not have had this great experience had not been some other people mucinous along the way and sometimes they were very. They were very critical and they were just trying to help you get better and back with them was for a special and no. I never thought we'd we'd ever get the book put together. I thought we'd just like most officials we talk about it till the end of time and never get it done but it. It is very special to the book of remembrance of a almost forty years atlanta's also to you know i'm a big believer in you. Know you need to get their names on the record you know Alan gatty normal. Nave and hannah mcgee and Can rank in you know emory and these people that everybody knows who bobby bowden is and everyone knows you know who ray lewis is and and you know all the big names are in the book but to me is important to get the names of those people there in the library of congress. Now right i mean. They're they're out there. They're the library. You check out a book and you can read about these people to me. It's important that these people had such an impact on dazzling life is such an impact on our lives Now now they're on the record you know. Now they're out there. And and i think they deserve that in their lives and so i i felt that i always take very seriously working on any project or particular project like this that you know i won't i won't some also guy you're who's i'm never going to meet to read this book and know about mom all right and to know about sam and to know about You know these people. They've never heard of and That if it wasn't for them my dad wouldn't have done what he did and result salmon. I would not have ever done what we did. And the people at work so hard behind the scenes these these officials Acc big e small college high school. Whatever i people know you have supported me to get their names imprint. And get them on the record for for forever. Well because terms hackers turn out. The samsung is dead. Who rule enforcement. Snow's lawyer yell at right before same with this question. When i asked you you running ride of peon. You also disallowed Book for this one. How is this project of writing. Different advice would you give to other families who have stories like this. I wanna tell to collaborate on this. Well i would say that even if you don't believe there's any chance that you could write a book you need to get those conversations recorded you know and you need to get them transcribed and you need to have handed down. You know. I have one tape of me sitting in front porch talking to my grandmother when i was a teenager about our family history Man i wouldn't. I'll fight you to the ground. You try to take that thing away from me and so to me. It's just important even if it's just put in a folder in your own home or to put on a zip drive in your own home is to get those things down. But what always tell her by the of written other books But i never felt pressure like this one because number one. I wanted to get story right number two. I wanted you look to cover. This book said all the time Three gentlemen on the cover that book we share six college degrees and i barely got one of them will make sure that i do that. Make sure i did those guys right so tip tip the hall. The listeners wanna be writers in take a college degree to route. you take. It might take one but you don't have to be great say you. I'm your lawyer of rice books. You're actually work novel now. That's a whole nother topic about lawyers turned authors. Go there but what attracted you to riding and mean you're in the courtroom fight me to fight on the other side of cases together a pretty intense environment sometimes. What what's the always said Recovering lawyer challenges that. I enjoyed writing that conflict that joy experiencing what what attracts. You will always say landis about you. Know being litigator like like. You've been a long time. Like i've been it would be as if you're a surgeon and you're working on somebody in someone else's paid very well to smack your hands away or pulled a scalpel out of your hands. You we have one of the few careers where someone else is always paid every day to try to stop us from doing our job I've you know and and we do a lot of his lawyers but it's just a completely different kind of writing. It's very adversarial style writing. I've always loved to write dislike. Ron will say and i had a. I had a third grade teacher who got me interested in running. A seventh grade. Teacher had another added steam lady joanne clinton for english in the ninth and the eleventh grade when my novel comes out next year her. Name's school being the acknowledged that she convinced that not only did. She showed me that. I could love writing but she convinced me. I might be okay at But yeah it's to make it. It's a creative process. That's fun it's something that you're like rancid putting something down putting it on the record having it out there like the novel working own about our family story from the nineteenth century But there definitely is that aspect of it of this. It's a heck of a lot more peaceful than what. I do Sixty hours a week. You know so I it's something that is also like a hobby for me. That is a that's relaxing in a way not quite as relaxing standing in a river with a fly rod. But i think those two go hand in an how many times you spent some nice time outdoors. My brain immediately goes to something. I want to ride or a story. I want to tell But yeah there's definitely a a search for peace aspect for it for me compared to my daily adversary ally. We've had been lawyers. A turned authors of showers kissed trying to sign his quoted. We only so many months of but it is a ramp up here with the ratings of the Added human housing officials. Start with ryan reading section or Followed by sam. We're gonna finish with the reading. Your father the starts chapters abra america's with also that check the morning after das- last game. I made the ultimate sports writer. I opened. Espn dot com clicked on my story a day with the bcs rafts and scroll down to the comments section. This was the first sentence that i read. Of course this idiot would write something. Nice about these referee idiots. His last name is the same as the field judge. It's his damn dad. Refs suck in the years since the last game. I have written about him often. I have talked about it. maybe more. i've done it so much. it has become a running joke with. Espn college football co workers. Hey ron your dabbles aref. Wow you never mentioned that. But why wouldn't i now have the opportunity to cover college. Football the very dream. That was ignited on the sideline of virginia ninety three and my perspective on the game. Which i believe to be. Unique comes directly from officiating. Bloodline as result. It will always be my ongoing mission to humanize officials to try and help. Sports fans develop a better understanding of that third team on the field. People don't have to like officials. Most number will and i know that however honestly believed that can be smarter football fans if they have a better understanding of the men and women who blow their whistles not just on autumn weekends but in every sport at every level heck. That's why the book you currently hold in your hands exists. I've seen firsthand that watching the officials at addition to the teams make the game more interesting. I've seen that happen with. My friends. Started watching dad because i made them. I know probably drove him crazy with it in the beginning but then one of the might say man. Your dad was all over that pass downfield and that feels like a win. But we aren't naive here. We know there will always be way. More people boo initials are making fun of them and paid attention to them or respecting them. Especially now down eclipse one day. I was running off the field with dr ernie benson the groundbreaking hcc educator another official. Who was an attorney between us. We had nine college degrees this. Oh boy and a blue ribbon hat. Who had about three teeth shook a beard austin yale. Y'alls the three dumbest some bitches. I've been down here. We're probably never gonna convince that guy that officials are actually pretty good pretty smart people who love football even the he does. And that's okay but that doesn't mean we stop try great jerry's we wrap this not like so give you the last word year. You've had this first of all you're holding your hand on your yes run. I lift weights. We always said that That prostitutes football referees wore the goddess. Go this jewelry. And i've the most obscene rings that this is not the worst one but it's a but we always usually if we had game of any kind of importance they would give us a ring or watch or something which you know. We all appreciate having this memento but but that's that one's pretty special. That was the second time to the rose bowl and it was a southern callum in michigan is great game. It was nice having memento of it just sort of found worse injury of with his career at the beginning to fish rose bowl national championship games. A lot of this happened over that time of you've had a great experience yourself tag along wife with As well it's time now you're you're young boys to demand. Who were you help you tell the story. What does that mean to you as you reflect on. This is a thicker. I it makes me feel like i've done my job. You know my my dad made it. My my biological dad died when i was in Had a wonderful father and he used to say to me all the time the most support job he would ever have was was given direction to mom brother myself. Help us become in. And i kind of feel locked job. That's kind of where i am in life. Now when i when. I look and see sam and his family healthy and happy successful has run. His family healthy happy and successful. I feel like well. It's up most important job oil window that bits. And that's a great way to end it on a on a thank sam. Thanks for being showed absolutely rod. Thanks for being here but yeah most is great. Usually when i talked to say his lawyer friends islah boring and get sound. Have you on the show. You bring your your young boys. Neil turn into action. Well that's it for today. Another found author giving voice to the written word next tuesday. We'll have another in-depth episode with readings and conversations about the written word and the writing life of a local or regional author who before then be on the lookout for another under the covers episode where we do much the same thing we do here but quicker and sometimes away from the studio because there are just too many good authors. Not enough town if you like what we're doing. Please consider leaving short written review on apple podcasts or the podcast platform of your choice. Because when you do our authors voices travel much further and wider in podcast land. And if you're inclined to help us help authors give voice to the written words and you'd like some member content cultivated by authors and me as our thanks. Please consider becoming a member support. You can find out how to become a member supporter and more about today's show and all previous episodes at charlotte readers. Podcast dot com. You can keep up with news about the show. Join our email list and engaging with us on social media we promise not to spain me because that takes too much time and if you do join our email list we'll give you a free e book written. Thank you for listening. We really appreciate until next week. I'm landis wave for charlotte readers pockets charlotte readers. Podcast is a member of the twin city. Podcast network powered by ortho carolina now offering video visits. So you can take control of your orthopedic care from the comfort of your home schedule online at ortho carolina dot com ortho carolina you improved.