Post-Convention Politics & The Dark Force Farce

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This episode of Hacks on tap is presented by a brand new documentary podcast series. We highly recommend called. It was said, which was written and narrated by our friend Pulitzer Prize winning and best selling author historian Jon Meacham it explores tended the most powerful important and timeless speeches in American history. It was said created, directed and produced by see thirteen original studios is available now wherever. You listen to podcasts and we can't recommend this important series enough. Please listen. Well, it's a mad house here at acts on tap hacker route studios because acts is so excited to share with you a brand new limited documentary podcast series called. It was said that we highly recommend this series will move you teach you and inspire you, and frankly is a must-listen especially in these times. And especially, if you're a history, not like we are the ten episode documentary, Podcast Limited Series Explores and brings to life ten of the most historic speeches in American history it was said was written and narrated by Pulitzer Prize winning and bestselling author and historian Jon. meacham. A good friend of both of ours and it was created directed and produced by peabody nominated see thirteen original studio in association with history in covering some of the most impactful and timeless speeches. In American history, it would said draws on a selection powerful figures like Martin, Luther King Ronald Reagan Jfk John Lewis Edward R Murrow, Barbara Jordan and more and. Puts you in these moments in time that are still so relevant and important today meacham will offer expert insight and analysis is only he can into their origins, the orator, the context of the time they were given and why they're still relevant today and the importance of never forgetting them. Each episode of this documentary series will also bring together some of the top historians, authors, journalists, all relevant, each respective speech and figure together context and inspiration for this generation and every generation after it was set is now available to subscribe and listen for free on apple podcasts, spotify radio, DOT COM and wherever you listen to your podcasts. A pulpit share tax on tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy. I'd. Ask. Yourself. Why looked like a radical socialist with a soft for riders? Really. I want to safe America. SAFE from covert. SAFE from crime and looted safe from racially motivated violence safe from bad cops. Let me be crystal. Clear. Safe from four more years of Donald Trump will murphy that kind of cuts to the. The. Crux of it does you know Joe. Biden. is really a frustrating target for Donald Trump because he doesn't look the part. of the radical left-wing Socialists whose tearing society apart. Well you know I I thought that was a great line. When he said you know look at me I'm not a radical socialist I can tell you in the spirit of Jack Benny I was thinking for a minute but no I i. don't think he is I think there are some headwinds in one wing of his party, but I thought that was great. Political. Move in a needed one to get out in front and define himself and not be swept up, and you know all trump's rhetoric to try to move the campaign to something other than firing. Trump's a great day for Biden good speech and Let's talk about it with our guest. Today we have A. Hacker ru joining us you want to introduce David introduced David Work Together, I show. Well, we actually we will be working together. Because a disavow demissie is gonNA be a a fellow at University of Chicago, Institute of Politics this fall. But most recently, he he managed the the Democratic National Convention for the Biden Campaign I worked with our Buddy Stephanie Cutter who who managed it from the DNC side and AMD before that was cory, Booker's campaign manager and one of the brightest lights I dealt with during that campaign as I was covering that campaign for CNN. So welcome my friend. Yeah. Well, thank you good to be here with two of the greatest acts. ACURAS. While the oldest acts, that's probably truer to to the point there. But Unite before we get into, I want we we are at this pivotal moment in the campaign and I. Really you know we should lay it out as it is before we do want your quick thoughts on the RNC from the standpoint of someone who was deeply involved in constructing the DNC what was what what did they accomplish? What didn't they accomplish? What was your sense watching it as a? Competing producer yeah. I I don't think they accomplished much but you know our convention the Democratic. Convention was intended to both sort of solidify our base and reach out to disaffected Republicans moderates independence who may have voted for trump and twenty sixteen. But who are are skeptical. Now, if not totally decided not to vote for him this time and and I think we accomplish both those things trump essentially doubled down on his base which was already with him. To start with and you know made a few token Appear. Attempts to outreach to to the center but even the polling we've seen from ABC and others. This week has shown that it didn't really move the needle for him. It certainly moved the needle for the Democrats in terms of Biden's favorability rating at least at this point that's what I'm looking at I'm not looking at the Horse Race of looking at do people you don't like Joe Biden, do they like Donald Trump? Do they think he deserves four more years? Do they think? Biden will be a viable replacement and I think Democrats did what we needed to do as in terms of putting Biden in that position and Trump. Just did more of the same. We've seen for three and a half years and I don't think it's going to do much for having a long run. Did you guys expect anything different though because trump's always says what I call primary itis every everything to him is a Republican primer I I don't know if he got the memo that he won So I that was the trump convention i. kind of expected doubling down on the voters has which are not the voters. He needs I give them a better grade than I would have going in just based on the general incompetence I see around trump land that they were smart enough not to be too ambitious with production pick one set. A fairly attractive place in the mental library and just locked down and then two big set pieces and you can argue about the use of you know some of those buildings I, find it offensive. But from a pure television point of view I think they did do a pretty good job in optics. I thought the Penn speech looked really good. Yeah. I thought the offensive is the kind of you know dictator for life aspect of the White House name was it was visually good TV So I'll I'll give the Republicans a little benefit there but the medically I agree it was you were worried they do though the thought that might be a better fastball I feel like they trotted every Republican person of color out there to try to in my opinion had nothing to do with appealing to voters of color but trying to make white voters politically suburban white voters except in the audience at the White House that. That was kind of bizarre the reverse shot where we're all those black friends of Donald Trump. Exactly. There are too smart to be there. To help. That is exactly right. But nine hours of you know playing this game of of showing that you know no seriously, he's not a racist and then suddenly you go to this one hour of trump doing trump things at the White House with an all white audience et Cetera so I did think you know. I thought they might change especially because you know. This was their last best opportunity certainly before the debates to to to make any kind of pivot but it turns out Donald Trump is donald trump and donald trump Republican party is not going to let that happen. Let me just limits pose the alternative theory here not that Donald Trump isn't donald trump I. think that theory's been proven but I'm I'm talking about what they were trying to do The fact of the matter is he is a base only guy and their theory has always been that there are enough. White particularly white non college voters out there to win and they need to get some of the suburban vote back in and you know they've adopted a strategy and that should lead into the discussion of where we are right now I mean the convention was really the most forceful roll out of a strategy, which is that you know anarchists and looters and rioters. Arsonists in parenthesis black people are destroying the country and America's cities. They're gonNA creep up on the border like The mccloskey's warned you they're gonNA, they're gonNA come to your house next and be very afraid and you know and there's a reason for this. I mean. It may not be you know I I'm not making a value judgment about the strategy or about its ultimate efficacy. If, you're the president of the United States and you're presiding over a pandemic in which over one hundred, eighty thousand people have now died and largely judged to have mishandled it and you were gonNA run on an economy that is now in the ditch with over ten percent unemployment, we'll see where the numbers at the end of this week many small businesses gone You know he needs an alternative narrative and his his style is to try and change the subject and he spent the whole convention trying to do that. the pandemic made you know only cameo appearances, but it isn't a cameo in the lives of American so that that's his problem but he's doubling down the anti on the on this anti Murphy. He's headed to Kenosha today he you know last night he came out. at a press conference that was extensively about Cova de to two minutes on all miraculous things that are happening with covert, and then the rest of it was just a screed on on Biden which he followed up on look I've been around race all my life in politics I covered it as a reporter I've seen it as a strategist worked for a lot of candidates of color. And in venues where they were a breaking barriers down to to their election I think this is a serious. It's a serious issue, Murphy I don't. You know you've seen it to I. Think this what he's playing his audacious it's disgusting in many ways but but we shouldn't dismiss the fact that it could have power Oh not at all look trump's problem is so clumsy if he were more deft. Some, you know some of those issues. Do, have power I. Think Trump's mistake has been as usual overplaying it doing it in a way that alienate suburban voters he's trying to get now that said if I were judging the first couple of days out of the convention, I would scorn for trump until yesterday when biden kind of rick locked narrative because it is a fact that the more. Ultra Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party is a target rich environment for the Republicans and you've seen plenty of that, and the rhetoric Biden's job is to not let that define him as the key element of the election and in the primary he did a pretty good job of that. He kind of went to his Biden Path and ultimately after some early setbacks he prevailed with it but he can't let that go and I think yesterday he moved to reclaim that ground but you know if you back. Up We have been talking about looting and violence and tension for the last a week plus and that's not bad for trump if that that debate is not the debate of firing trump is not the debate of covid and it's not the debate of the economy falling off the cliff. So I think Biden. Moved aggressively yesterday maybe a day or two late but he did it and I think you'll have to prosecute for awhile to reset the race back back on fire Donald Trump is kind. Of, wants to be. But yeah, anytime we're debating whether or not the Democratic Party is tough enough on looters and there's just enough noise from the activists left to cloud this up a little bit. They're not helping Biden you know trump trump's got some oxygen and if I were bide being into cutting off oxygen and I, think he again made a big move in that way you know with the speech which I thought was excellent dramatically right on and I like quickly that he's opening up this. New Front of a message I've always thought which wait a minute. I'm the stability guy you know the cities are on fire the academy screwed up covert is a clown show because of Donald Trump you know I'm the opposite of that I'm Mr Safety and I think that's a powerful move for Biden any ought to stay on it every day the do it seems like to me that burden is is is threading a needle here because there is a a a great deal of outrage about. Police involved shootings of of black people of. Color. African Americans it is a You know it is a crisis but You know the other hand he doesn't want to side with those who've taken the protests to. Looting arson rioting, and so on How do you feel he struck that balance yesterday? I think yesterday was about as good as I've seen them and and I do think it's a needle, but it's not a needle with the particularly small opening here I mean peaceful protests good. Violent protest bad is is the message and it's the one that that Biden's been saying since the beginning of this back in back in May. June. And just reiterated it yesterday as forcefully as as I've seen him do it but it is not hard to before peaceful protests end against protests against those who are trying to exploit this moment for their own. Ends that are not racial justice and justice in policing and and what have you and so I agree one hundred percent with what makes said as well, which is, which is as the more we're talking about this the less we're talking about what Joe Biden wants to talk about, and frankly as you said, what Americans want to talk about, which is our country is in the midst of crisis that has been made worse by and in some instances been caused by Donald Trump, and his presidency and and those primarily are the Cova crisis and the economic crisis that comes from it and so. Shifting back to that turf is good for for Joe. Biden's exactly what he tried to do yesterday and I think did did very effectively and I do think this is a a blip the this conversation that we're having right now because the Republicans had Donald. Trump had four days to essentially put this front and center. But we've got nine weeks to go and I think the American this is not a Cami over the American people covert as it is still number one issue and it's where this. This campaign is going to be fought for for the rest of it's Joe Biden stuff. All right. Let's take a minute to hear from one of our esteem sponsors. Mike One of the most foundational experiences of my young life was the nineteen sixty election with John, F. Kennedy when a razor thin victory over Richard Nixon for president, and now you can relive it with a new podcast sixty twenty which tells the story of the election of nineteen sixty decided by just two tenths of a percent. 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Biden did two things a few things yesterday I thought were important One is that he was unequivocal in his positioning on on the riots in in in some of the destruction that's been done. Let's let's take a listen to that clip. Riding is not protested looting is not protesting setting fires is not protesting. None of this protesting is lawlessness plain and simple. And those do it should be prosecuted. Yeah there you go. Yeah that that was very very clear. But the other thing he did was challenged trump to to to make the same unequivocal statement to his own supporters essentially saying I am against violence wherever it emanates from including violence against citizens of from police But you know the president is unwilling to make that Declaration and a little bit later in the day trump. Responded to by at this press conference, and here's what he had to say about this caravan of people, supporters of his who gathered in the suburbs and rode into Portland I in a caravan miles long with paintball guns to shoot at protesters One of the one of the vigilantes ended up being a shot in in all of this. But here's what trump said when he was asked about these these folks who who stirred who came into. PORTLAND. Essentially to stir up. Trouble. The, Seine they had large numbers of people that were supporters but that was a peaceful protest and paint and paint as a defensive mechanism. Paint is not bullets your supporters, your supporters, and they are year supporters indeed date shot a young gentleman who and killed him. Not with paint but with a bullet. And I think it's disgraceful. These people protested peacefully. They went in very peacefully. Murphy, he went on to defend the the seventeen year old kid who drove to. Kenosha with an a semiautomatic weapon and ended up killing two people he's now been charged with. Six crimes including first degree homicide and the president really laid out the argument that this kid was just acting in self defense. Doesn't just make Biden's point I think. So you know again trump is always you can tell trump is feeling like it's slipping away from him because he's jabbing Kinda wildly he's. Focused on quote his people he sees the world through this prism of two hockey teams and Oh my team went out there and they only use paint. Ball guns on people. Therefore, they're the good guys I mean it's just it's a quagmire form of style and it it does fuel the fire I don't think his version of kind of the Frank Rizzo School of policing. Is Going to get his folks back. So that said it is a limited victory for trump whenever we're talking about disorder and I frankly think the governor of Washington needs to get a phone call from somebody in the Democratic Party and say look this Portland thing has gone on for months and months and months you know we have national guards we have curfews, they can step it up a little bit or we're going to have the nightly Portland. Show was going to take over the campaign that's better for trump than biden even with Biden, doing a better job of pushing back. So well, the governor of Washington be interested in getting that called the Governor Oregon probably would. Oh. Sorry. Late night poker game but you. Take my point kate the good governor of Oregon there's something going wrong and Portland in it there needs to be you know you know you know what that is true, but it is also true that when the when the situation Portland was calming down trump's sent in federal agents and it all got inflamed again, the situation important was coming get down get then and this miles long caravan came in and stirred the thing up. We're about see the same thing and Kenosha, I. Mean. This is what he does. He he he is I I saw the lieutenant governor of Wisconsin. Say this yesterday it's like a big barrel of gasoline coming in to the fire is what he does. He wants it to happen and so it is if you are governor Brown or if you are the mayor of Portland or if you're the mayor of Kenosha Governor Uber's Wisconsin. You are you you are trying to put out the fire. You have this great big barrel of gasoline from the White House that keeps shooting at it and it's up to us. Honestly it's up to the press others to to not take the bait at some level because there's only so much you can do the White House is a big platform. He's he's got a big bully pulpit to try to that guy i. hear you guys on all that and I know trump is the ultimate arsonist fireman needs setting the fire and then running around the corner with a fire hat on five minutes later, saying pay me to put out the fire. But the point is we're talking about trump's agenda set. Now in yesterday was Biden's first big move to re clock I. Applaud that and Biden I woke department of the Biden campaign might have slowed them down a few days before he could say you know lueders ought to be prosecuted he did and now I think it's turning Biden's way. But again, if I were the Democratic governor of Oregon, there's things I can do to help because you the litigation on blamed place to trump getting portland headlines getting it. So trump supporters can't do suv parades through crowds by controlling things tighter even if you get into the curfew business for a while. That's going to be important. A distant could keep going and that is good for trump. Yeah. One question I have for you guys as if you're biding yes he made a very good speech yesterday. I think he hit all the right notes but what do you do? You know what strategically should you do because trump's gonna continue this now do you just wait and counterpunch and hope that he oversteps as he undoubtedly will as you know and we`ll He went he went even or later in the evening on Laura Ingraham Show which will here in a second but do you my thought was do you carve that spot up that he did do you carve that speech up and and do a sixty second spot and run it you know and try and make sure because what the hard thing is he doesn't have the megaphone that trump has he doesn't have the White House, he can't command national. You can't command the sort of attention that trump does in part because he won't light himself on fire the way trump does but you know that speech can fade pretty quickly and a lot of people will not have seen it. Oh Yeah. I would I mean I. I. would just say look we have ten days to move the needle on Joe Biden. Is For law and order people know Joe. Biden's police perform, and you know for social justice he he's he's doing right there. But he he needs to buttresses up and I think he he can't which it away of one speech he now has the messaging right I think Biden. Has Two challenges. One is to protect his flank on this stuff and he's he's making progress. He's got the right message now. So go all in Gaul in force it through, and then pivot taking the economy away from trump because that is still trump's lifeline that is perceived as better economic manager and I don't want to be Joe Biden going through October with a mania in the media about coming vaccines and trump fanning the fire of that whether it's true. Or not and people thinking about who can reset the economy and being behind Donald trump in that perception I think if he can do those things, he will hold his position and when when race but I I don't think. I, think you're right on this David giving one really good speech doesn't make it go away particularly when as I think these was somebody said. Trump's going to be in this business as long as he can get away with it. So I would I would engage. I agree. I. Don't think you cannot not engage I think I. Think you gotTa counterpunching pivot. You know not to get too boxing analogy on it, but you gotta spin off of this a little bit as well and I think that's more than the the direct counter attack on on. Law and order that the Joe Biden made yesterday. It was also the to me the most effective piece was he is the chaos candidate Donald. Trump is candidate for four years. He's been the chaos candidate and he is the problem. Let's listen to that. Keeps telling me. He was president your feel safe while he is president whether he knows it or not. Whether he knows it or not. Yeah. Nice. By the way, I got to plug who was the most accurate pundit an all of American politics for once not me predicting trump would be the chaos presidency before anybody else did he's totally thought. Governor Jeb Bush said it during the campaign. And he? was totally right about this is where we only reason that he was out front on that was that nobody at that time actually contemplated the reality that trump could be president. And that was a big mistake because here we here we are. Let's take a minute to do an ad be right back. Well. Access episode is brought to you by what we like to call the spoon magic spoon. Yeah, and I I love it. You know I can't I. Don't have my pajamas with feed anymore I don't have my special cereal bowl but I can still eat cereal and you know why? Because of Magic Spoon I've been trying to cut down on carbs and sugar on unhealthy food I realized I basically can't eat anything anymore but magic spoon makes it possible to eat cereal again absolutely acts and the good thing about magic spoon that let you have that serial experience in a healthy way. I. Mean Look at the ingredients zero sugar. Twelve grams of protein and only three net grams of carbs in each serving four flavors cocoa, fruity frosted, and my personal favorite blueberry. It tastes amazing. Honestly just about too good to be true. No kidding. Yeah I mean I love that cocoa but they're all good. 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He's going there to increase enthusiasm but not enthusiasm for American, Uzi he thinks it's going to cruise increase enthusiasm among his voters. Everything is M and We is and that I think and I think that Trent when that becomes. Transparent and Biden hammered away at this yesterday I think it is a you know his strength then becomes or what he perceives as strength then becomes his weakness I mean he's define the mayor, the police chief, the governor everyone asked him not to come and he's coming on the less. So we'll see what happens We'll see what happens today. So later in the evening, he went to see Laura Ingram where she came to see him I don't even like to mention because he's not controlling anything controlling Biden strings is it former Obama email that you've never heard of? People that are in the dark shadows people that what does that mean? That sounds like conspiracy theory dark show example that you haven't heard of the people that are on the streets there are people that are controlling the streets even Laura. Ingram. Had to interject and try and save trump from himself in his clip when he met something by the way and. When she said well, that sounds like a conspiracy theory were trump you know where trump says that Hints that he biden is not hints says by not being controlled by dark forces they're the people who are on the streets there the. You know that the question is, how far does that? Go you know before it just boomerangs on him and he looks Like what is well, it gets much worse because if this eight point data is true and you know I think polls are lagging indicator. He's hit about the most bottom. He can. It's not like the Laura Ingram audiences now going to be, oh, my goodness, racial sensitivities killing me I'm going to switch to away in negate no of course of course, but but the but but that clip went viral and it was on all the news casts outside of Fox News this morning. I'm just saying I think there's an up, you know now on the flip side I I gotTa tell you guys the story back in nineteen eighty three I was covering the mayoral race in Chicago Jane. Byrne was the incumbent mayor. she had a lot of a lot of problems She's being challenged by rich daily who ultimately became air years later and Harrow Washington the first african-american to make a serious challenge for mayor. Late in the race daily was taking white too many white votes from burn. She decided to go full racial she showed up at a housing project and I'm watching the news covering this race and watching the news there she is walking through Cabrini-green and she's being essentially a hassle jostled pushed around by. Residents of Cabrini-green and I'm thinking where's her detail? Why aren't they around her and the answer was that was exactly the picture they wanted on TV that night and I thought about that when I saw rand Paul leaving the White House and pro you know dem demonstrators jostling him I wondered by the way why he wasn't why he was ushered out the way. He was ushered out but you know you, you heard the you heard the Biden folks exulting about these pictures and others like it Kellyanne Conway saying if you know this is the more disorder the better for us you mean the trump folks trump. Yeah. Yeah. To say you said the bite said, no, no, no, the terrarium trouble there you got. Wait a second man at least I know who the governor of Oregon is anyway now go ahead. But yeah. So I mean I do think those images have to be concerning to Democrats, and this goes to your point before my Democrats have to you know. It is not in their interest is not in the country's interest, but is also not in their interest to allow these pictures of trump by the same token. I think that trump thinks it is in his interest and therefore he is not averse to stirring up trouble. Absolutely. No that's I. Think we are taping this before he goes to Kenosha but I think this is exactly why he is going to Kenosha he wants to be protested he wants to be shouted down he wants to stir up trouble in a place that was you know healing after what happened to Jacob Blake, and what's happened over the last week or so starting to calm down, he can't afford for it to calm down. He wanted to heat up he wants Rand Paul Picture to go out there and I do think that is something that Democrats don't want or need but this is what You were saying before this sort of the power of the presidency where he goes cameras follow and where he goes protests follows for very good reason and so it's going to be a difficult. That's a difficult needle to thread because it's something over which the Biden campaign and the Democratic Party has no control and it's you know it's Catnip for the press and I don't mean that pejoratively it's just it's. It's very hard to not cover the president of the United States, going to a protest hotspot and being protested and and so I think t to that end what what Mike, what you were saying. Earlier. The Biden campaign probably has to do a lot of this through paid media and not just through earned media. They have to put ads out there and put content into social media that pushes their message and just not be afraid to counterpunch and put it right back on trump and characterize it for what it is, which is him stewing chaos for political game. I'm a big fan of using September drain the energy at of issues. I don't want to deal with an October, and so I think engaging with Biden doing his officer Oh biden routine and allowed and unshoveled wake Biden campaign I think. Is Realizing that there? They've got the woke vote woke votes done net. Now we're into scared white suburbanites. Okay. So reassuring the Biden you know gets the cop part of the good cop part of the equation member. Biden has the police unions. They can have some good media with real cops who play like real good cops saying look you know you want things back to normalcy with the law and order president is not out of his mind making our job worse making situation worse. You know you got Joe. Biden. Okay. Let's take a break right here for word from our sponsor and we'll be right back. While, you know the stress of daily life ways on all particularly in this era of politics. 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If it subsides and if trump doesn't succeed and stirring it up yet but the third or fourth stirrup starts to be weaker ones Biden's established himself is being on the lawn or he'll. He'll you know trump is responding to a perceived opportunity that you know Biden is an oh as C. beatty as left wing police suspicious. Democrat and Biden's not that guy is a speech made clear yesterday. So if the by guys make some piven and WanNa and this thing has less energy in ten or twelve days. What's the best move to pivot to the economy and how does Biden prosecute that case because to me? That's the ballgame. You know I think well, we'll get a little bit of clue on this on Friday when the jobs numbers come out but you know I I think one of the controlling factors in this campaign in DC I'm interested in your view on. This is GonNa to be the path of this virus and how quickly you know progress can can be made in terms of. You know and I think the answer is. Very little toward normalcy. I think we're in a status quo situation until there's a vaccine and You know you see schools now, New York City today postponed the of the opening of their schools. By several weeks I just think that you know the college stuff is going poorly i. I just think there are. The promised trump is a reality show and realities encroaching on him, and there's only so much. He can do to change the subject and at some point, it's going to appear You know his unwillingness to talk about the actual state of the country is, is GonNa be a evident and is going to be more and more of a problem for him and they need to weapon is that Democrats need to weapon I says Biden began to do yesterday has he's been trying to do the other things I. Don't think that they. You know you in this were Murphy and I may part. I don't think should except that trump's economic record obviously where we are today is dismal who has benefited is also not a good message for most of America and I think both of those I mean pound away at that I buy DC on I I have to tell you the one critique I have of the Democratic convention which I thought was excellent and really well done much better than I think anybody anticipated could be done in such a short period of time was The absence of a sustained discussion on the economy it was Kinda shoehorned into a place on Wednesday. Night probably could've used about twenty percent more economy in that presentation. It's a fair critique I. Think we did as much as we could to tie, and this is where I would point the Biden campaign to as well and I know they're thinking about this tied trump's mismanagement of the cova crisis to his inability to manage the recovery and covert is still the number. One issue in America people are still at. Home it's been six months. Nothing has changed. Nothing has gotten better and when it's gotten better to mealy gotten worse and I think trump has the this is his sort of enduring strength as he has not just three years of being president but fifteen years of being the number one rated TV show in America and thirty years of a brand as being a businessman that is going to be very difficult to break through in the in the last two months of this campaign. So I think the best strategy is. The Cova crisis where people remain at home businesses remain closed people continue to lose their jobs to tie has an ability to to to tackle this crisis effectively and manage it to prove the case or to at least be evidence for the case that he is unable to unable to to fix this economy and Dulles back better as Joe Biden says, and so to me the the chaos versus versus steadiness is obviously a critical piece of this but the ability of Joe Biden to The ability of Joe Biden to Make sure that that this campaign is about Donald trump as about his inability to to manage his inability to get us to the next stage of Our economic growth is is how we're GONNA make an economic case that actually resonates with the American people. You know what surprises me is. They don't lean into surrogates on that more. They've got some you know gate ner Type Clinton and Obama era people who. Can claim to be part of a management team that ran a great economy. You know the buffets of the world to from outside government and I think joe ought to be surrounded by those people because Joe doesn't have any built in economic credibility trump has this perception that he was the wizard of the economy whether it's true or false, and I'm not asking Democrats to accept anything. But I I've been sitting in these endless focus groups in Florida for Republican voters against trump with these undecided suburbanites and you know we try the Cova disaster equals economic disaster argument and the pushback we get is look we know trump's kind of a clown but he didn't create covid it could have happened any president. And so you know when they find a cure, what trump knows how to do is do the economy we throw a bunch of spots Adam and everything, and it's kind of hard slogging. Biden is very undefined on the academy. There's no biden equals good economic management there at all binds a nice guy in a long-term Washington politician. So it's just it's the thing that bugs me because I think we could have a vaccine mania it's coming. It's coming. It's great even. Before might be and trump. Of course, is already tried to stack the FDA with campaign hacks, control the messaging. Yeah it's perfect. You're going to get it in a week and so that's just I. I think that is a code the Biden people have to crack next. So I'm going to be interested in watching how they they tackle it look I, don't know that and I. I would with Tim Geithner work with Larry. Summers. I have high regard for them. I'm not sure. Who is are the right people out there, and there is a story to tell for. Biden are around his economic advocacy but I I also I. also think that there are questions to be raised about who the economy that trump claims to have built up. Emmy Great Economies Biden said and it isn't great now but Be Accepting that people give him credit for it questions who who, who benefited from that, and who will benefit in the future I. Think there is room there I do want to say this Relative to our earlier discussion you ask you talk you guys talk about maximizing you talk about him speaking to his base. Here's their theory. Okay. Wisconsin. Eighty, six, percent white state forty, seven percent of the vote was non college white voters in two, thousand and and sixteen. They see hundreds of thousands of people who haven't been reached who fit that cohort trump got sixty, two percent of them. They want to maximize they wanNA, bring them out. So they're trying to excite those people. The same is true in. Pennsylvania where forty percent of the vote was non college whites Michigan forty-two percent, and you know they're talking about Minnesota, which has a wider state than the other three but only thirty seven percent of non college whites voted in two thousand and sixteen I mean there is a method to their madness, which is they think there's a reserve of voters out there that they. Can Excite and polarize and activate and that is their key to winning the Electoral College. They know in the unless they're completely smoking something they don't know they know they're not GonNa win the popular vote they're gonNA lose it by more than they did last time but this is their theory be a I, think it ultimately, the math will not work. Out For them because you can't just excite one element of the electorate not the rest of the electorate suburbanites will be turned off by the vehemence with which trump is pushing what is race based strategy but but they do have a theory of the case and we should acknowledge it. Yeah. They absolutely do have a theory of the case but math. Unfortunately gets in the way which is You know forty percent or thirty, seven percent or forty, two percent. Whatever you said is not fifty one percent and I you know for every for every vote of a white non college voter that they may excite or bring to the table they may be losing in a one and a half votes on the other side of. Voter from suburban Philadelphia or suburban Detroit who took a chance on trump last time and and like you said, feels like he's gone too far off the deep end or for that matter of voter of color who didn't vote last time because they weren't excited about. Hillary Clinton or were depressed by the Russians or whatever it might be who now has decided that this enough is enough. After seeing for you and Young Peo- and young people. Yeah. You name it. So so it is not a zero sum game, but there is no doubt in my mind that that is their strategy increased white non college voter shows share as high as it can possibly get I just. I think that as long as Joe Biden continues down this path and as long as Donald. Trump. Continues to fail it's going to be very hard to keep any trump voter from thousand sixteen who sort of took a chance on him in the trump fold and run as long as iovine acceptable alternative They may be adding one here but losing more on the other side the problem with that strategy because it's been tried a million times and basically it it comes to. It is the strategy guys totally right. But you come up with that strategy because you don't have anything else while we're going to lose this election. Oh, we better get a new election. We gotTA bring a lot of people in we need a ton of rigors 'cause a under the current rules were. It's like we're losing the baseball game. We gotta add three innings here while you. Can do it in theory. But as you know in a presidential year, turning non-voters into voters looks great on the powerpoint chart but is really really hard to do. But Mike they have some experience right they. They actually were rewarded for this in two thousand and sixteen. Well. Yeah. But you know they had the trump movement they attracted him I don't think there's a whole bunch of. Voters who somehow missed the trump movement for the last four years in our deciding to get on I mean look they have to try it because they've got nothing else is just really really hard to do I mean you can see it in the convention all the Minnesotans they kept parading up are desperate, and that's the state they only lost about forty four thousand Republicans always come. Closer to big dream state is one of the interesting states is still full of White Democrats and it's just hard to do but I get it. That's their strategy. I just think it's a choice of last resort rather than strategically strong choice, and finally a diesel is right. The demography is killed them. If you look at WHO's died and who's become a voter in the last four years. Trump has lost more voters than he's gained because his vote skewed old white, and the lot of them have gone to the the Magon the sky in. So it's just the headwinds are tremendous I try to if I were them. Insert your people voting in Chicago Joe. I was as anything other than Gina Raimondo. That's the most oft mentioned line of yours in all of our last. Known. Cook. County. where I predict that Biden narrowly up victory due to the the hard work of the desk Florida. Man I wanNA talk about. Florida. I mean I really see it. It's very hard for trump to put this together without it. Oh, we can't, and so it's you you are. You are the Republican voters against trump strategist and Florida Tell me you just tell me that you you had some You know you saw some resistance. To your messaging in in some suburban groups, wh how do you? Size up Florida right now, I you know I So our vet Dot Org, we encourage people to join up. We've been doing what we call the permission campaign of phrase familiar to you. David. From some of the work you've done in the Great Lakes stakes for awhile with real Republicans who make these kind of Web ads and we pushed the best ones out on digital and we've had some success. Our goal is to chip trump from the normal ninety three to ninety, six percent of the Republican vote get him down to the mid eighties, which will be a material difference in Michigan, Wisconsin etc Pennsylvania. So we've started this new offensive in Florida I worked a lot and I have never bought that trump has a lock on Florida. The State is changing if you look at the public polling. You go to the polling averages from realclearpolitics sort of places you know Biden's Ben Ahead about though I'd say nine of the last eleven months there, and when trump's ahead, it's only two points it's a swing state it goes narrowly thirteen million of thirteen, almost fourteen million registered voters in about ten million last time in the margin was still under one hundred, twenty, thousand votes, the last election. So it is doable and one place you have to operate is where the Republicans historically been better than the Democrats, the of one six governor races in a row there, and that that fulcrum vote is more moderate either retired or suburban Republicans some whom relocated from the Midwest and other higher. Tax Areas. Often, and the spine of West West Coast of Florida all the way down to Collier county from the Tampa Bay area and then areas you know in the space coast tends to be a little more conservative Jacksonville these pockets. So you WanNa work there and you wanted to also get white college educated independence who act a lot like Republicans when they vote on wallet issues but don't quite can't quite take it to say the Republicans. So you know we're doing something we cooperation orange crush and we are focused on those. Voters only about four, hundred, thousand of them because we think they're the fulcrum and You know what they like about trump is I think trump is better for their wallet and they don't know much about Biden other than decency right now what they don't like about trump is the phrase you here's I'm tired of being embarrassed, which is in some of our advertising that a great kid Berry Ruben did with Real Republicans, spot this testing well so it's kind of a Jewish kid into Florida was. Doing Pretty Good Wisconsin to. but but anyway. So that's the jump ball and that is one thing that has sharpened my interest because I think that this is one thing I didn't like about the Democratic convention I know everybody in the world liked it. But the woman talking about trump essentially killing her father because he believed in trump why believe every word of that to be true and because I've psychotically hate trump and have since I doubt them in new, Jersey in the early nineties, for governor, Whitman out there in that world. Of kind of soft Republicans and independents they do not blame trump for Kobe they think it would have been trouble under any president and so that that silver bullet at least in that world doesn't have quite the power and they even get little upset because they think it's unfair to say so you gotta get their pocketbook that's who they are and chaos chaos and safety defend yourself a zoo. Now I think I will I will defend I I went to high school to college together I we found are actually but She's she's a friend of Mine I. Hear You I. Think this is what Kristen said at the convention and what I think is the truth is that Donald Trump didn't try to solve the problem once it started she told her she told Kristen's father. It was okay to go back and Sing Karaoke, and it was okay to go out without a mask and everything was going to be fine and this thing was going to be taken care of it's under at center and that is mismanagement and it goes back to what I was saying. He has mismanaged the response to the crisis. It's not the be created it. It's that we are still sitting at home six months later no better because our president and our federal leadership has failed and that comes from the top of the line was tough though the line was very the line. Mike's Mike's Point is the line but I. But anyway, can I just say about Florida talk about Florida Yeah Yeah let's go because you know there was a piece this morning in axios and we've been talking about this for some time. The danger this election is that Democrats are more sent are being told. To if. They WanNa vote by mail they should because that is that may be the sensible way to do it in Covid era and every poll suggests Democrats over over Republicans. Are Much, more likely to vote by mail the result of it is going to be a lot republicans, GonNa. Vote at the polling place and trump's numbers on election day are going to look. much better than they will at the end and so when the mail ballots get counted in the days subsequent to the election, his lead will vanish he will claim fraud. The the the potential for chaos. Is and the and the thing that could save us his Florida. Because Florida. Florida counts their ballots on election day. Yeah and yes Laura comes in in or around election day and it is in Biden's column. It will be clear what the verdict is going to be I think. Yeah, I mean if you look at the math. Hillary Clinton, Two Thousand Sixteen States plus Florida plus Pennsylvania. Gets you well, above two hundred seventy electoral votes. It's two states you know we talk and it's not to discount the other swing states that are out there Zona, Michigan Wisconsin, and potentially Minnesota. ETC But Florida and Pennsylvania and I remember back in two thousand sixteen when I was sitting, there were sort of wanting to one a one B in the states that we cared about back then because there's so many electoral votes forty nine between the two I agree with you one, hundred percent. There's one thing that keeps me up at night. It's the exact scenario that you just talked about which I'm I'm familiar with out here in California Iran. Governor newsome's campaign here I believe we ended on election night with about fifty seven percent of the vote in two thousand eighteen, and by the time all the ballots counted we were above sixty. So that's how that's California obviously is a state that does have vote by mail and I think we'll see a more California like situation and other states, and we've seen more than a few congressional races. There were words out of candidates were trailing in. Yeah vote by mail runs California. Yeah and so the eye. So that's normal here were used to it. Right. But another states where this might be the first situation where something like that happens I think trump is a hundred percent going to try to drive a truck through what ultimately is nothing at all and if we see that kind of movement, it's GonNa, it's GonNa be scary but I want everybody who's listening to this understand totally normal for for for racist to move to three points after election to hand out late late arriving. Balance. That is par for the course for elections for decades in states that have heavy vote by. So just acco little the good news about Florida's one no Republicans one in one hundred years without it as a decent just said you in Florida, you only need one more. You know US need to go grab Arizona there are millions scenarios with the others you gotta put three dimensional jets together which. They do but Florida plus one wins second Florida's good absentee they're used to it. They're used to heavy absentee ballot and they they count very quickly because they count the absentees come in the other thing is that traditionally the exit polling for all the problems have said two components the one everybody talks about which is have people with you know boxes you on your way into the polls. They also do a late phone poll of absentee ballot voters and I think the networks ought to report that data very transparently on election day as. Dual count say here's our estimated absentee vote and here's our election day vote to blur this a little bit and not cover up the absentee ballot because those polls aren't perfect but they can give you a fairly scientific estimate. The balance out the election day reporting network world has to figure out how to cover an election day that now may be a week long and they're going to have to be some new techniques because otherwise these Bloomberg guys who did the data I think they are right that in many states you could get very. Only sixty percent of the vote counted and reported, which is very different than what the reality can be. So we got to rethink the whole deal or trump's gonNA have something. You can make a lot of trouble with well as this podcast can't be a week long I, think it's time for the mail bag. Let's do it. Experts Segue by the way. That's why you guys are the Hacker Reuss. And I've just a special guest. You're you're you're you fit right in okay. It's the magic mailbag here. Thank you hacker ruse for sending in your questions. If you have one, send it to us at hacks on tap a g mail DOT COM, and don't forget to rate us on apple podcasts. You really helped the podcast when you do that and send. US. Your comments. Okay. A diesel for you from Doug just like team trump set the bar low for Biden speech by calling him sleepy and implying he's senile doesn't the expectation gap hurt Kamla in the opposite direction liberal stinker prosecutor Chops Will Destroy Mike Pence but as the bar set too high and skillful, Judiciary Committee questioning translate into a good vp. Debate. Good question. I think it's a great question and a really good point and I think you know that is amongst the political media and political observers. Right. But the folks who are actually watching the debate don't know cobble hair certainly don't have as as deepen understanding of WHO Kamla Harris is. As as the you know the folks are going to be shaping opinion afterwards. So I don't think that's a that's an incorrect concern. I. Do think we need to be careful with setting expectations for a total obliteration of Mike Pence who is vice president of the United States was the governor was a congressman and is a pretty good debate. He is a good debate we saw that against Tim Kaine. Way Underestimated and I think Camara's way overestimated. So this is a good question. I think it's a good question and it's something that Democrats should be careful of this is you know we may relish what actually does happen, but we don't want set the bar. Yeah. You want to buy low and sell high essentially when it comes to the expectations game Murphy Jennifer says. I always hear that trump campaigners go after non college educated. White. Voters we just had that discussion wise having graduated college considered such a big deal for pollsters what when pollsters analyze the electric that liked to break it up in the groups to kind of showed the different pieces of the electorate that campaigns can go after in different ways and traditionally trump has done. Really really well, with white voters who were non college educated that's been really his core area the voters who in other elections Lean Republican who've not been as good for trump tend to be white voters who have a college education. So there's kind of a big circle around that subgroup, the electorate as a place that has the most opportunity for Democrats went appeal voters who Don't like trump style or his policies often him. So because that seems to be some soft tissue here, a vulnerability for trump or an opportunity for biden that group gets a lot of attention in the polling and just so happens that there are other what we call cuts, differences, sacks, men, women, you can add to cuts together, college educated, White, and female, and then you. Get a real group where trump underperforms. It's just a way of zeroing in on electorates and seemed to be behaving in a in a way that's an opportunity for one side or the other. Well, and let's let just to put a finer point on this I mean D- trump is a white cultural warrior and he any thrives on the politics of resentment and loss and. and so there are there are among non college voters, white voters in this country, a sense of be besiegement and a sense of loss and a sense of place a loss of place that trump just he picks at that scab again and again and again, and that is the status, the core power of his politics So you know if you look. At the behavior of voters I mean trump lost He lost college educated whites. He lost a voters of color and he rolled up his score among the Non College Whites Evangelical voters who he got eighty percent of the vote among and that is his constituency. So it's the voters who sort of lead pollsters to their conclusion here. No, absolutely it's. Trump's secret sauce and resentment is the glue now acts for you from Jeff Oh. A journalism question warning to viewers all right The New York Times in Washington Post to a great job fact, checking all the president's lies unquote. But what about papers around the country while the demise of the daily press allow politicians to lie with impunity now what's the solution? Very good question. It is a good question and it's one that's near to my heart and my concerns as a former a reporter for the Chicago Tribune and someone who believes deeply in journalism and the importance of local journalism limoges say parenthetically before I answer that question that you know the times the post CNN and others do a great job. Of fact, checking trump. The disturbing thing is just how numb we've become to it that they're the he doesn't appear to pay a penalty for a telling untruths the alternative facts approach that he has You know as largely has largely worked for him that that's not to say that he shouldn't be called on it he should, but we also demand more. From our public officials and there is real danger when public officials don't tell truth look at this cove at. crisis that has been made worse because the president hasn't leveled with the American people about the severity of the situation. In terms of local journalism, we've seen thousands of local news house across the country fail and we have news desert's across this country. In which there is no on shining a bright light in the dark corners of local governments of county governments of state governments and That is of real concern that is a real threat to our democracy. What we've seen are You know we've seen ideologically oriented You know corporations buying up at bargain basement, price bargain-basement prices. Local news stations and Sinclair being the lead one to try and proselytize rather than report. In many cases this is a danger and in terms of what the answer is, we need know both altruistic people who want to support their local communities and want good journalism to step up and by news organizations not for profit journalism has become more and more. Powerful across the country but we need to and and obviously at the end of the day, a a subscription model that works for local organ news organizations. The way it does for the post and the Times would be would be very, very helpful but it's a slog. It's hard. It's a threat to our democracy and I'm glad you raised it. Yes. Can I just add? A real quick on that I I want to underscore I. think the federal officials will be we can hold them to account because of national news organizations because of whether it be cable news or newspapers like the Tribune or the New York Times or what have you it is the to me the local the state that's where the danger is real, which is there are folks who are. Controlling big budgets making huge decisions over everything from policing to hospitals in our in our neighborhoods in our cities that now have nobody watching watching over them except for you know vigilance citizens and so I would just encourage folks to subscribe to your local newspapers as you were saying David and and also if you want to be a citizen journalist yourself and do so in in A. Not. Alternative. Facts Way it's not nothing to engage. It's GONNA require citizens to engage in their politics at the local level even more than than at the federal level because we're all that stands between between you know a government that's working for us in the government is working in the dark corners like you said, this is something I can totally agree with the problem particularly God. Is You know look I hate the damn liberal press as much as any good conservative but but the problem is without the threat of bad publicity. There's no deterrent and local and state government to real trouble. It's set up for real trouble and the other problem is people say, Oh, we have the social media the Internet. Yeah we have all that and it can have a role, but it's not curated. So there's a lot of crap on it and what what good journalism does is curate this stuff. So you as a citizen can do you're damn job and find the truth and act on it. So this is a growing crisis and I I couldn't agree more and that was a great question. To people who WANNA go out and protest in a peaceful way that is part of the American way. But to those who who have other ideas, you're not helping anything here. You really not helping anything here and I hope you'll reconsider that's my last call. I'll add a quick Republican version of that protesting is great. Is What Liberty is all about but throw a brick. I'm okay. If you're going to jail and can I make a quick pitch today Tuesday the first is national poll worker Recruitment Day Oh yeah and I the one of the organizations I work with more than a vote is starting to launch an effort to recruit young people young people have colored to work the polls. We cannot let our grandmothers and grandfathers and aunties and uncles be the ones who are working the polls this year. So if you are a young person in particular I'd like to consider myself one still But if you are in your twenties thirties. And you have the ability to work the polls in your in your neighborhood and make sure that we have a smoothly running election in nonpartisan way. I just encourage everybody out there to please go do that power the polls dot org is the organization that we're partnering with Recruit Point you in the right direction and make sure that your election run smoothly and not just to your civic duty. But in some places actually get paid for it great note and by the way you're you're much older than you were when this podcast began. Murphy good to see brother. I'll see you next week. All right guys. Thank you. Get to see a DC. We hope you'll come back off and see if. BUBBA. Blow.

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