Scott O'Neil | Secrets of Happiness, Leadership, and Success from the CEO of an NBA Team
A good friend of mine randall. Right said you need to publish this like this can actually help. People said you're talking about leading leaders talking about helping build next like what if you can touch somebody like what if you could make an impact. What if what you do actually makes makes a difference and so the process. I see i hired a writer. Show bender whose amazing Because of my age gentler said something really. Funny when i was talking to her. She said you're a book. This is not a book which i thought was really really funny and very humbling. And so she's like i like. Yeah like what's in there but we gotta get what's in there on here. You know it was really funny. So i got real help. Which was great. And then and then the folks at saint martin's on tim bartlett athletes the best editor world Made sense out of the in allowed me in my voice to you know i told you i wanna i wanna make a dent on the world look at night and hopefully the row and this is the unmistakable creative podcast where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements built driving businesses written bestselling books and created insanely interesting for more check out our five hundred episode archive unmistakable. Creative dot com. Doing creative work can be kind of lonely. And that's why we built the unmistakable listener tribe. The tribe is a community for professionals to connect and support each other. Everything is designed to help you grow your business and share what's working and what isn't and that's true whether you're a business owner or an artist you'll get access to feedback live conversations with guests and so much more by joining the tribe you become part of a community of creators who all support each other. And it's completely free. Hopefully you'll see their visit a mystic creative dot com slash tribe to join again that's unmistakable. Creative dot com slash tribe scott. Welcome to the unmistakable. Creative thanks so much for taking the time to join us sri. Thanks for having me. i appreciate all. You're doing to spread the creativity in the world. I'm a listener. I love which you don't. let's it added. Oh it is my absolute pleasure to have you here. I found out about your work and your book by wave. Your publicist and as i was telling you before we hit record the minute i saw the word. Ceo the philadelphia. Seventy sixers. i was. I don't need to read any more of this description. The answer is absolutely yes. Let's do this But before we get into all of that. I want to start by asking what i think is a really relevant question given some of the content in the book and that is what religious or spiritual beliefs were you raised with and how those impacted your life and your career great question so i was born and raised catholic and through life. I look at what's catholic. High school our lady of lords high school in new york and though nova which is augustinian catholic school And generally not a not a christmas day easter catholic. Why we went to church. Most sundays We had a good spiritual base In the house. But but not overly end as i look at my family now. splintered so so very very few of my five of us for four siblings are throws sister and they go sporadically to church in some not at all. We were raised in a house with by two. Phd's a it was a laboratory for sure And whether it was on faith or sports or education or the way we treat each other we always had a pretty simple with three simple rules growing up. Let's put it that way we had No hurting each other. No hurting your mother and no no girls in the bedroom as a as a as a kid now again. It was a different era. So i grew up in the seventies and eighties for not savvy so totally different era. But that was it no curfew. No no no have to do your homework. None of that stuff up a really like I guess we grew up in sort of a hippie type household early in my folks. I was a product of the system. So food stamp kid. When i was really young bummed rice in powdered milk and And then my my folks did very well successfully. So i went from food stamps to country club and then back down again So i i think i learned a ton about Life and people in connection interaction Avalon a hundred stories of my childhood. That would that would be interesting at some longer. Point is it was a grown-up. I absolutely loved it. I had irish data in italian mom. And so you got a lot of energy in a lot of passion But but seeing feast or famine and backed am back to feast in them back. The famine was something that i truly appreciate cherish. I remember reading about that night. I do have questions. But i want to get to those later. How many siblings do you have. I have three brothers and a sister. Okay i was wondering what did being part of such a big family. Teach you about human behavior relationships in resolving conflict in communication. Well we were way so so many lessons. They're my best friends so so we had We had a very very very close all still are They're the they're the ones. I call when things go well. And they're the ones i call when i'm crying my pillow We were definitely like orange into each other so to speak We also my my dad would always say these kind funny. Things are sticking in my head right now but he always. We always competed hard but he didn't like comparisons to say comparison hurts compete compete compete so we competed but he wanted us to compete with ourselves. Not with each other a we. We were very athletic. Grown up on my sister ended up. She was all american lacrosse in high school and college. My other brother played at tends to holy cross one tennis and then the rest of us were just high school. We were almost always captains of all the teams were on typically most of us. I think all of us were student body presidents. so are those guys in in high school and am very active so it was a. It was funny as i as i lean into my children as a dad of three daughters. I think about you know. My parents never asked me to see my report card. I even imagine that you know one of my daughters. I stopped looking for another reason but I never was asked to do homework like they never it was. We were competing. You know it. It was almost like we were there was there was an expectation. But not really in all my devalue education as said both were. Phd's so they own. Actually you know. We appreciate that by moses but there is a family of entrepreneurs so that was different. So you know my my dad inside I guess when i was six started his own company. He's the dean of students at a local college. Mount saint mary college in newburgh and then started his own team building company. And so you know. As young as i can remember i was collating books for my dad on team teamwork and team building leadership which is funny to think about now and then. My mom operated to schools One for kids with special needs and one got matriculated school. I guess it was more like a charter school that you would think of today and And then my mom and dad partnered up my my mom began. The star of the Became a consulting business Xerox adp texaco around the world. So pretty pretty fun business and a great as a you know a as a thirteen year old senior mother up in front of a room back. Then you know committees. you're talking. It's all white males you know. It's a sales managers session. And she is just wowing the room back and forth back and forth making them laugh making them cry teaching lessons in our remember. My mom had made me go see her. I must have been acting up. I don't remember what i did. But i was a tough kid The toughest of the five terms of of their parenting with the deal with but they tried everything back then. It was like they took out sugar. They sent me to my room like they try and take away anything But but i remember watching her and thinking like i wanna do that someday and So i had a wonderful wonderful childhood in whatever way. We just competed and sports are release and it was a way to connect with my dad and my mom and each other and it was pretty special so i wanna i wonder. How old were you when you experienced that transition from food stamps to country club held for your siblings and as a byproduct of that sort of change It and this is something very serious because my dad is also a phd. Happens to be a professor. What what. How did the career advice that each of your siblings got contrast based on where your parents were at in terms of their life circumstances all right so this is a classic of catholic family like we had five kids in six years. So you know. We were effectively the same age growing up. I was the second born but most loved. Least that's the way Story sticking to it. In my. I was on food stamps. I think until age three. My folks started making money when i was about thirteen or fourteen so just hitting high school and junior high school and then lost it all when i was in college so it was the second part of your question how i guess. How did that affect the advice that your parents gave it was so close together. Maybe it's that is. Because i saw what happened when my dad you know. Look my sister. And i are five years apart and my dad was building his career. Lot of money And so my sister. And i have these wildly different experiences growing up like i shared a bedroom with my sister until i was in the ninth grade. Look i didn't even have my own bedroom. And then she got a very different experience. She got to do a lot of things with this much. Yeah love that we. We actually were four of us to bunk beds in a nine by nine bedroom until i was twelve and then i had my own room so it was like literally. It was like almost overnight. We had a. We went from that to a tennis court in a pool in her backyard. That's how stark it was like. It was bizarre and yeah my younger brother and sister definitely had it had a better in those years but then they got hit harder at the end because they were still in the house so they got they got some internal like i can't. I've got one daughter about to get ready taken. Sat's act's in trying to figure out where she's going to school. I never had a conversation with my parents but we're also planning and as far as career advice. I mean i remember. I was at the i was. After i graduated from villanova. i was bouncing at a bar called the princeton in avalon. New jersey and my mom like set up an interview for me that i was not prepared to go on with. Adp and i. It was a total disaster story. I i my car broke down the way from the shore back at. Are my friends close. Because i left my clothes in the car that broke down. And i end up in a in. His suzuki samurai which didn't have doors or a roof in. So i walked into this interview with close for someone the size of andre the giant and hair looking like don king and this guy is saying like you're not ready for this interview you you don't. You're not you're not prepared. Anyone that would work here would have been at nordstrom and gotten i said. Hey it's nine o'clock three in the morning hitchhiking back here. This is a great story. And the guy's name was paul bugling. I stayed in touch with them for philippe passed away about five years ago. And you know. I had a disastrous interview. My first interview and that was my mom's biggest client phone call land so i ducked few days as i was back at the shore and i didn't go particularly well. My mom was just i mean. She's the most wonderful compassionate Lovely supportive mom. I'd never heard her that nasty ever and a- integrate western oughta get right so i mean get prepared like i have a meetings without being prepared now. I don't anybody walks in like that with me. I would throw them out as well. You know but But man what a an kind of shook me back into real life like i went back to the shore and it just wasn't the same most playing hoop twice a day. I was working on a bar of going out all the time and literally two weeks later i just moved back my parents house and i said like hey. It's time to time to get on with this. And getting and my dad is the only career of aragon for my dad which was He said i walk downstairs. They had our office downstairs. Not walk downstairs. I said okay. What's up he said He said what's your plan sign. I said i don't know. What do you think i should do. He said i want to go stairs. I want you to write down twenty places. You wanna work. So i wanna stairs came back in earlier. I said. okay here are. He's like okay. Now you've got to get somebody at each of those places and this is before the internet like no. I'm like what how you know enough people start making phone calls and that. That was the best advice. I got from my dad and the the second was when i got hired at madison square garden. I was president assad's regarding he grew up in bayside queens. You know. and he and his he grew up. There were six of them six ceilings. They all stay in the same bed every night. Okay so he didn't come from a lot of means and so i grew up upstate new york and so working at madison square garden the knicks. I'm the rangers was like dream. Come true and i call them and say hey dad and he said son even. You can't fall this floor. So i thought that was good too. So so now he. He was like he loved. Coached me from when i was could walk in basketball. was always a huge supporter. But i didn't get like counseling today and it wasn't access to information and so so we kind of stumbled through it look. Staying healthy isn't easy watching your diet hitting the gym avoiding stress. But a good night's rest helps boost your overall health and wellness and it couldn't be easier. The new sleep number three sixty smart bet is the only that effortlessly adjusts in response to both of you the result you wake up ready for anything. 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I think a lot about how sound impact says whether we're hearing it on a podcast or from a notification on phone or from some apple using and if you want to learn more about the impact that sound has on our lives listening. Subscribe to e passes powered by audio on a cast. I tuned spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts. It's funny because indian parents. Have the sort of doctor. Lawyer engineer jokingly say the indian parent motivational speeches. You can be any kind of dr laura engineer. You want to be the the thing that i wonder about is. The ceo of an nba team is not something that is. You know you're going to find in a high school. Guidance counselor's recommendations of okay. This is what you need to do to get the job it's not a linear trajectory. So i'm curious like most of the people that i've interviewed. Who have interesting chris. What what was the path the getting there. I mean you sounds like there's all there to have been all this stuff in between. Oh for sure. And a lot. A lot of bumps along the way i i i will say thank three of my brothers are running companies right now so we were definitely trained to be running companies in some some way. I don't think it was by design. But that's how we grew up thinking that we were going to do whatever we wanted. You imagine waking up every day in your dad telling you telling you you are incredible. You can do anything you put your mind to. There is no ceiling in what you can accomplish. Only you will decide limits of what you can. can you imagine. That's how i grew up. Wow every single day. And so. I've believed it. I'm like yes i can. Maybe it my my mom. She said she'd be an astronaut. Has like of course you know But that's how they were. We were taught to dream big Although my my folks were relatively parochial and And so the journey they journey was fascinating. I got hired as a marketing assistant. I make fifty thousand dollars a year living with seven guys in a three bedroom apartment. And i couldn't even afford lunch. You know i've lived in hoboken new jersey and no vacation no benefits no overtime and i spent my days fetching. Coffee picking up dry cleaning in doing crap work in spent my nights picking up projects from the other departments and being fascinated by the business. I love god. Loves like if you if you look for everybody needs a kind of a find some stillness in their life and for me. If bounce a basketball in the gym it could be five year. Old girls are nba players. It's my it's my peace at his zan piece When the business though. That's not what i love about it. What i love about it. Is you have this incredible platform. And i recognized it literally on my first day. You had this platform that brings people together and unifies. And if you've asked board today boy what a what. A great healing tool terms of of a divided nation on so many fronts. This is the one area of life that brings people together and has them like act like children. We screen we route whichever game last night. Losing my mind upstanding doubting because it's your part of that family part of that community but anyway going back to my my story. I was working for this legendary guy. Tiny jon spoelstra. Husan coaches the miami. Heat eric yup. I was gonna ask you. I was wondering about that mr About the same age. So i knew him when he was playing in a college basketball Wonderful wonderful guy Extraordinary coach But his dad was kind of the guy in sports marketing world and and the nets are were be brand at best maybe a siebrand and he decided to hire fifty some odd twenty two year olds and figure it out and i got promoted from the system to a sales job because i was in on a saturday fix the copier and he think about. Yes and he's like what's your name again kit. You know what do you do here kit. Can you come in my office kit when i went in there. You said what do you wanna do. A someone -gratulations you just promoted now. Twenty two years old. He's like take that officer there and then he he would take five us out Once a week for dinner drinks and you think about the president of the team and again i was thinking about lessons in how they impacted influence. Who you are and how you know when i spend time with my twenty zero reps now i want them to know who i am. Because i knew john wasn't he knew who i was and support But that was the first big big promotion if you will. I mean it's so you think back on it. And i didn't know what the heck i was doing. I mean they had these old. Sic bucks which effectively big red thick books probably six inches and they listed every company in the country. We're just call one by one. Mount exactly the marketing as you know these days but anyway and then I'd had an internship advantage or national which was a sports marketing firm in college in and the guy who was my boss there Suggested i call the the jeffey would just off the philadelphia eagles for then record price of one hundred eighty eight million dollars while what is he doing. And it's now worth multiple billions. And i called him out fifty times and doing yeah. I wasn't a good salesman. But i could get anybody on the foreign competition and And i do his assistance. You i was i call every call you every single day for the rest of your life until you let me into. See him until about the call. She put me onto joe. Banner who's now dear friend when up being the president of the eagles for very long times now since retired who hardly so. Yeah so. I was drector shells there. Twenty four years old director knee nfl. I couldn't direct myself to the bathroom and back. I was like learning how to write a budget and write a business plan. Had this incredible new boss commend length. Morowski us now in the ceo. The cleveland cavaliers. For last fifteen years. or so. who taught me You know how to how to in executive In there for harvard business school which was insane and wonderful experience There aren't too many kids from our lady. Lords high school going to harvard business. School is put it that way and and that was special. I mean talk about learning how to dream big. I was around people who were smarter more driven as experience and i loved every bit of it. I've been a lifelong learner forever and loved learning and that place. I couldn't get enough of people with big dreams big ideas and and down and wonderful and an an an attitude where you walked in. And he said hey. We're going to help each other every day every day somebody from the administration or professor would say to us. Hey was some from this class. 'cause you answer it you help them. That's what we do here and it became like this is a family not again going back to that. You know compete. Don't compare like the ikea to work twenty four hours a day. I wouldn't have been. I have done as well as half the kids there. But that's was a barrel about a. Let's figure out how to learn together. Let's go take on the world together. What what are what a great lesson for companies for teams for colleges for any anybody. And i just love that. That retali- there i came back and went back to. The eagles was probably my first moustache. Plenty mistakes but that was probably my first mistake going back there because they thought i was the same kid who left. I thought i should have been the see you. And they were more than i. I i known everything and you'll but that's what hbo is. It's the study of how to make you. Oh you just not yet. You know and then i left. It was the dot com. Boom aris are left to start a startup collapse. Tv with my dear friend. Seth berger who had just If founded and one the sneaker company basketball you may know him one and and iran that into the ground so raised fifteen million dollars some. Vc's some strategic tes. And i found myself outta luck outta working out of money. And seth we were competing the number two site behind. Nba dot com so we had pretty regular interactions with david stern. The former commissioner adam. Silver the commissioner and And so steph call and said you need to see this guy and they hired me that week and that kinda catapulted my career. I was a group called thi marketing and business operations and it was david. Stern's vision to create the mckenzie of sports so we were a consulting outfit that worked for the nba on behalf of the teams and building. Best practices so. I got a chance to work across three leaks. Nba wnba in analogy league. And help everybody from the receptionist to the president operate more efficient effective business. And that is that was so much fun. And eventually i i grew up there in the I ended up running the group and then they gave me a couple of other. You know the crm group an nba canada and then the g. league inside. I started if it was if it was a problem in struggling on the handed it to me. I love fixing things. I love. Turnarounds create culture. I say kind of a bubble cultural culture and then act. I hit that age. I was thirty seven thirty eight. And i went to david stern. The who's since passed away unfortunately and said hey. I'm ready to run something. And he said what are you looking for in. I said big turnaround big city a big challenge. But i want to run it. And he said what the knicks and so three weeks later i was named president madison square garden sports running the knicks and rangers liberty boxing college basketball. Tennis and that was that was an incredible. We spun the company out from from cable vision and created separately traded public company. And then put a billion to into rebuilding it The great transformation of massacre regard and then went out and paid for. Did these incredible deals. And the kind of with the who's who of new york city which is in the center of the universe when it comes to business and commerce so that was that was pretty wild and went through to the court which was fun. knicks arrangers. Both really struggling. When i got there in a both consistent playoff teams so so pretty good. was fired from their analysis. A fascinating experience as well. I'm reading about yourself in the paper. I never had any notoriety if you will not you know and that was the first time i i was like winston saying like. I hope my kids don't read this. I remember that. In the book. I i do want to ask you about that more that it was a fascinating time again. I learned a ton. And then and i met josh harrison. David blitzer you know. They had a really struggling franchise in a big market that was acting like a small market and they want to change the face of sports. Entertainment grow global company. I was all game. I wanted to be around people. I love and respect in love and respect them on the would people incredible dealmakers in and we've grown the business you know. We've grown at five times the size in the last seven years and then some so so that in on the court on the ice to really good stories as well we've had on along the way so it's been a journey to get from from there to here I've learned a ton of lessons along the way. But more importantly i just i don't know i feel like i have friends in every corner of the world in more than anything else that's what i cherish while so many questions. Come from this and we'll start getting into the book one thing that. I wonder you had parents who instilled this very sort of you know clear messages that you could be do or have anything you wanted and i had a mentor. Who worked with me for a really long time and one thing that he always talked about instill talks about to this day. All have to send you that conversation. Because it's one of our best interviews ever. He talked about the difference between probability and possibility and used as absurd examples which cited before so for example as scrawny indian person. The probability that i'm going to go head to head with lebron james even a pickup game is pretty much zero. And i'm pretty sure. My parents never told me something like you're going to be in the nba. Because of that very thing. So i i wonder how you find that balance between like where do you draw. The line between you know. Delusional optimism and rational optimism as i. Guess what i'm saying. Yeah great question. let me think about it. I i would say that. I don't i don't look i got i have physical limitations too. I wanted to play in the nba. And i went to villanova and turn out for the team in doug. West was squaring off in one of the tryouts. And i was like wow. This guy's six six to twenty is faster stronger. Smarter better shooter. Better handle better. Defensively is not going to for me was agreeable but nonetheless. I'm so physically for sure in business. I'm not so sure. That's the case. I'm i'm known from if you if you had my executives With a bright light in their face every one of them would say that. I set unrealistically high expectations And almost all of them would also tell you that we always hit them or exceed them. So i had this expression like why not us like why not you. Why not me. why not like what. What is making the greats of the greets so great like what what is it is it the unwavering belief in who you are and what you can accomplish is it the willingness to fail and be okay in trying to innovate is it. Like a relentless pursuit of perfection is like a unreasonably hard work ethic. Is it and understand your priorities. I guess it's some combination of all that stuff but but it nowhere there. It's like the smartest people don't answer. You're not really saddled by your iq right just you just work hard. That doesn't work You know so. But i do have this sense that that if you if you have the the will you're gonna find a way on. The challenge is a lot of us. Grow up environment where we don't know what's possible or was big enough. I think that's the that's the crime. So i guess i would to to answer question. I would air on the unreasonable. Whatever your expression was not like. I think that you should. I want people to stretch and grow and i want them to take chances and i want them to fail and faw and get up. Try again I want them to be leaders. And and that's what. I'm trying to develop here. I my whole life. i've tried to. I want to consider myself a leader. Leaders everybody needs something to get them out of bed in the morning. Not got two things one is like. I hope to develop the next generation of leaders in this business. I wanted to leave the world better than i found it. So those are two loaded. Things that any cynic in the world would be like. Of course you know blah blah blah. I'm like yeah keeping cynical. I'm gonna keep working In and i think that. I don't know i wouldn't want to put a ceiling on anybody especially kids like i. Yeah i just. I have this this my older daughter. Who's just wonderful wonderful. Incredibly gifted soul with people did awful school now told you like my parents never looked in my report card. I made a joke. That i buy one. My was doing so badly your freshman year and she can't be said you're putting so much pressure on me. I don't care how you doing school. The only thing. I could give a crap about is how hard you work that. That's the only thing that matters to me. And i think view in our education system for people like alexa. My daughter's name is like she is not cut out to sit in a math class. K never going to have And what happened to her. In by the way she's she won national art awards. And i'm like okay you know. Let's let's let's feed the beast a little bit. I know you need a foundation in math but we really need to be taken calculus junior year really so now. She goes off to college and she thinks she's not smart. And like now that that's the prob because you can find smart in so many different ways and And so i. I don't know i i wouldn't i guess. I err on the side of i want people to believe and dream and then be be cognizant enough to understand the kind of work that it takes be successful. I have yet to meet a person in the world who who's successful who hasn't worked or tail off And and so. That's what i want. That's what i want to see that from kids. I want them to be hardworking. That's a core value of what we are always tell you weren't born. Any gifts can't sing. Can't dance game right that good looking. You know what i said. But i do want them to have that at for work and i want them to believe they can. They can take on the world and by the way that same daughter. She's got three last and read me her. Dean's letter word for word. I thought it was a cutest thing. like she hadn't you could take all her. Gpa's from our entire high school and they went ended up three. And here's is like stowe proud on like good for you found your zone. You're in now at a point where she's taking classes in their major that she's passionate about and she's into it and i like the for you kit. Am i think. I want more of those moments for everybody. I want people to be confident. Walked through the walk through life confidently and i think that's some of the secret sauce. That's really really hard to teach harder to find while. I think that it makes a perfect segue to talking specifically about the book. What the of all the things. You could do a ceo of an nba team. Sure you're pretty busy guy like why. Write a book like what the what motivated you to want to do this. Yeah great question again. You're obviously pretty good this so my my best friend in the world. We'll car took his own life couple years ago and with shotgun and he was suffering from depression and he's got five amazing kids in incredible wife successful guy and could not get through it like he could not beat the beast and he fought. He fought for fifteen years of hard breasts in and out of facilities in and out of medication. All that kind of stuff and spoke funeral and aggrieved. I didn't know what i i've never grieved before i didn't know ref- was and i couldn't focus. I was a meeting. Somebody would say something completely unrelated. I would just get out walkout. Start crying and so i was struggling in started to write as my own way to heal and started to talk to friends of mine and ask them. And you have this notion that everything is okay everywhere else. You see a a picture on instagram. Or you see this holiday card it comes to your house like wow that family avoid. They have at all or wow. That's that's amazing that. Ceo boy how smooth in easy was that ride. He must be so lucky. And you look at life. It's just not the way life works. Life is messy. And when i found when i was talking to my friends was they had stories that were as messier more messy than mine and gave me peace and comfort in a strange strange wick. So i started to write. And i had my friends right A good friend of mine randall. Right said you need to publish like this can actually help people. You're talking about leading leaders. You're talking about helping build next-generation he's like what if you can touch somebody but what if you could make an impact if you you do actually makes it makes a difference and so so i just went through the process i see. I hired a writer. Michelle bender whose amazing Because of my age general said something really funny moment was talking to her. She said you're a book. This is not a book which i thought was really really funny very humbling. And so she's like. I like you like what's in there. But we gotta get. What's in there on here so it was really funny sites. I got i got real help. Which was great. And then and then. The folks at saint martin's on tim barley The best in the world Made sense out of up in allowed me in my voice to you know again. I told you i wanna i wanna make a dent on the world and hopefully to starts well. Let's get into this. i think to be. It's funny because my absolute favorite parts of the book were the ones where you wrote about your daughter. And i want to start at the very beginning of this because this is raised a question for me because you start out with this Story of being with your daughter at a camp and you say these three things to her that all of them really struck me. Said friends are terrific. But they come and go in your life boyfriends are fleeting all in connections are just that but our family of five is forever love more lean and lean on and cherish our bonds focus on how you can contribute as well as draw strength from connections And then the other thing you tell her is no matter what it is. How tough how deep you in that valley know that it will always be okay. You always be okay. We'll get better. Sun will come the next day. You have to know that it will always be okay and then third. You said you can count on me. You can call me. You can text me. Facetime me and i'll be there. I'm here for you. I hope to be a sense of comfort. A reality check a loving shoulder support system in the person who you can call when you need to laugh or cry. I will listen. I will not judge on only love. You're never alone. I love you forever. And a day. And i think the reason that i actually highlighted that and it's the first question i chose. Jesse what the book is. Because i have a question that nobody's been able to answer for me but given this relationship with your daughter. Maybe you can. I've always wondered what it is because my sister and my dad are incredibly tight like she calls him every day. I hit a roadblock with him in about fifteen minutes later that i gotta go and but for them. It's this bond where you i don't know if you've ever seen the movie meet joe black but the older sister describe the younger sister as you know when she walks into room your eyes light up the whole the entire mood of the room changes on that my dad and my sister in a nutshell and just based on the way that you wrote about your daughter i am wondering what is it that leads to that kind of a bond between fathers and daughters like why is that so powerful. Love that question and i don't. I'm not going to be able to answer the question. I can tell you though that there is such a special bond between fathers daughters and I have a very very different relationship with each of my daughters in each of them are very very special in terms of relationships. But my my simple lesson is i. Try to meet them where they are. I'm not think dads have the ability to do that. I'm in a different way. The moms do moms oftentimes played the disciplinary role. The oftentimes they play the operational role in the house. Dad's at least traditionally have been free. You know we we're. We're free to take the good stuff if you will to to cuddle up. When they're crying announced make cry to to be to be a support system Somewhere to listen to them But i i'd man that relationship is just it says juror in special as you can possibly get in. I remember my wife's wanna spend time with your kids. You wanna play basketball. Spend time all they want to do is spend time with you and i. I work hundred nights a year. I'm out early out of the pandemic. The best blessing for me ever. I'm home mon Didn't even with family. Dinner was twenty five years. And now i'm home. All the time is fantastic. So but i'm trying to get one on one time with them whether that's driving into basketball practice or sitting up in watching a one hundred which i am with my fourteen year old daughter. Some dark show on netflix. Which is fantastic. But i can't do in watching over fourteen year old daughter and or just chatting on the phone. My oldest is interning with the utah jazz right now just so cool so we can actually talk about business so i i'm just finding them. I tried to meet them where they are and i love them no matter what and they know that i love them but boy oh boy. That's such a good question. I have no idea what the answer is. But what a gift that exists. Yeah it will like. I said i think those were the things that having a younger sister who has spawned my dad. Those are the ones that that struck the most. In fact you mentioned you're not being home in we wanna ask you about this and i think this is my favorite quote from the entire book. You said of the iconic sports franchises nba nhl e sports et cetera. Under my supervision. There's no team. I take more seriously than the rocky. Crushers lisa's basketball team. I even skip out on. Nba all star weekend in chicago a day early. So good coach. The team like i mean you're the ceo of an nba team and that yet. Your daughter's seventh grade basketball team is a bigger priority. Which i appreciate that so much like it. Just that really touched me. That was my favorite line in the entire book. What's informed your philosophy of choosing to prioritize daughter's seventh grade basketball team over the nba work ceo of the damn team. Yeah no such a good question. i do. I coached my daughter's now for fifteen years until high school member. They're free to do their thing either. Playoff light but until then they have a have. A data will coach damage. So i'll i'll bounce out of the office. I'll go late back to gains anything. I can to make practice games with them and and we're never very good. I you know it's it's i get your friends. I wanna know your friends and so this is a way like. Can you imagine having like as a dad as your girls get older. You just don't have time like we wake up this chaos. In the morning. I go to work. They go to school. They have after school sports. Some activity i get home. We rush through dinner. If i'm even home until midnight and they have homework so like how much time do you have like an hour a day to get two hours a day. You get three hours a week of real time. And this kind of forces time. And i i always say like i'll know i know my daughter's if i know they're friends and so this was a way to get them together in and in quality time with them and boy i think sports are the best teacher in particular for girls. Boys have had the competitive advantage for the last hundred years on sports Catching up now. But what you learn to lead into follow into win and to lose the sacrifice for others and to be a good teammate. And you understand. What a bad teammate is. Because you see it you see people on any see their parents and how they interact awkwardly with the referees or the coaches in as a kid. You're taking all this in and it's formulating who. You're going to be as a mom in who you're going to be as an executive as who you're gonna be as a leader and all the stuff and i get to spend time with them every week being part and helping frimley those little things and yes we talk about. What your favorite ice cream is. And what your favorite place to go to vacation. As as much as we talk about switching from his own to amanda man. I will say like i always say the first practice we sit. Sit on the court circle and we talk and we get to know each other. I will tell you like all my my view of success always is how many of the young ladies come back and play the following year and they almost always come back and play and because i want them to love each other. I want them to fall in love with basketball. I want them to appreciate what competition means in. Get crab if you can drain eighteen foot jumper with somebody in your face. I actually don't care. But i do wanna see you give your all every single possession especially on defense. Everybody can give effort and i love that. I love the lessons. The lessons are so applicable to life in family relationships. And and how i go you know. I i will say like I had so many experiences like that. I remember coming home. Look you need people in your life. I'm sure you have someone in your life that tells you the truth my kids. My daughter's will tell me the truth. Some houses it's not great. My wife always tells me choose. Our member out was in the book that was coming on one day. We'd lost again at in new york. All the teams rebuilding. I was all grouchy in difficult. My wife said it's like this. You really re talking about is you're gonna be on. A loss by twenty points is like okay. So how many games. She'll lose a sharon's like hundred. Okay so one every three days. You're gonna you're gonna come here come home and be in a bad mood. This doesn't work for me now. it's not gonna work the girls. I was like all right. So i was like so. She's like yeah. Like in walked away and i was like I can figure this out. And so i'll tell the story because sure have to figure it out like i have to decompress in maryland systems to come in the house. Be fresh. be clean when you walk in at that gym and your coach gals. I better be fresh. I better be present. I better be where my feet are. One hundred percent have to be there and and they know it and i am. There's there's a lake and have to meet them where they are just like your kids are member like this practice. Had this one gal gallo girl and she was on doing tiktok dance. And i was like yo. Hey we're trying to learn a in basketball scored two weeks. Now she's doing to is like okay. You want to dance so we did tiktok dance together. Everyone made a video all over the world wide web for everyone to stay and because i'm meeting where they are i'm with them. You know and and i am the coach to coach them about boys or school or their mom or their dad. Or whatever you know. i'm there in and we all need people in our lives. That are outside of our direct line. Help us and and that's for the gift gift beyond measure so. This is another question i had you share the experience. You both men in the book about going from being on food stamps to being extremely well off to being oregon. Now i assume the of yovany. Nba team is fairly well compensated. Which which makes me wonder having had that experience In your own life. How do you make sure your daughters don't overlook the fact that they're you know growing up in an relatively privileged circumstances. Yeah high compared to most people. Because i'm guessing many of the players on your team's probably came from far worse backgrounds than your daughters do and so how do you instill that sense of humility in them to make them understand that. Hey this is not normal yes no. It's definitely not normal. And i remind them that. And i'm very fortunate my wife i remember. I don't sports step function increases in pay like you. Don't make a lot of money in all sudden you get a big step function. You're like wow so good living and then steph functions up. And i remember i was at the nba. And i was making a good living by anybody's standards. And my boss had left to go. Run the hawks in the thrashers in atlanta and have been given indication by the emission that i was going to be his replacement and mass cinema wife coming to get promotion. The raised like that's awesome as like. Yeah that was it. That went to work in. I'm sitting with david sternum silver He was a really tough guy very abrupt nasty in. I threatened and all that stuff so he was promoting me by yelling at me at the same time. It was kind kinda awesome. And he's in he says you know what you're gonna make. I was like Knows you have any other questions. I was like yeah. I want to hire people. And then he says Continuing to to give me a tough time and he said well what are what are you asking for house like whatever whatever you think is fair walked out and so he called me later afternoon told me what i'd be making which is about double what else making the time before which was still for me at the time like more than i ever thought making. My life is so jam in is cool. Job living dream great family. I'm happily married. Life's good and then. I i get this promotion periods in our home to my wife and i said lisa I gotta raise the making and she says she wants me dead in the is. He's like your magin all the people we can help thought definitely married right one and it's it's to me like the most powerful we intense momment where you understand that my kids are going to be fine now. They have a really grounded house like we get up on saturday and we do chores. We go serve people who need to be served They understand what their obligation as. They understand that this is not. There's and i tell them that all the time you know this is this is not. You haven't earned anything you know And so i think the kids are are grounded. And i know that they understand that. They're blasts they also understand what the world looks like. I've had a daughter. Serve in an orphanage in zambia And sleep on a dirt floor. In a tent. Little barbie doll out in the middle of of the bush leaping attempts. I've had a dog work in a syrian refugee camp in athens which she described as and i quote that extremely dangerous but not as bad as the subway to my hostile by way of not going down as daddy year. I have a daughter this year. We're going together to zambia to build a school starting up nambia to build school and And so for us. I think our girls kind of get it I don't want to come off as like on the perfect data or everything's great. These perfect i struggle. Okay my girls struggle. My wife's we struggle like we are. We are the classic american family. You know we do the best we can with what we have We love each other a lot. We understand the power of family. We understand the blessings. We how we tried to give more than we take and we talk about this stuff. Allies a family and i feel like lisa's the big anchor on that one look. Staying healthy isn't easy watching your diet hitting the gym avoiding stress. Put a good night's rest helps boost your overall health and wellness and it couldn't be easier. The new sleep number three sixty four bet is the only met. That effortlessly adjusts response to both the result. You wake up ready for anything. Proven quality sleep is life changing sleep and now the new queen sleep number three sixty five. Smart bet is only seventeen ninety nine save six hundred dollars. Only for a limited time to learn more go to sleepnumber dot com. Have you ever downloaded a computer and drove yourself insane. Trying to find it. It's a bit like tearing your whole house apart to find your keys. 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That's charlie spelled c. H. a. r. l. i. dot ai slash podcast this episode of the unmistakable creative is supported by remote works podcast that tells extraordinary stories of teams. That made the shift of flexible. Working if there's anything that last your tatas it's at the way we work has changed forever. And in each episode of remote works host. Bowling green tells an inciteful story about how people in companies are adapting talks about the very problems that all of us are dealing with last season in preventing burnout. People learn about the challenges and rewards of working remotely during the pandemic. Now i know about you. But i have definitely felt that their days when i am burned out and sometimes i don't even know when i'm done working because it's all i do. A recent study found that five percent of workers have experienced burnout and forty percents had their burnout was a direct result of the pandemic. But what if we don't know the signs of impending burnout. You'll hear firsthand from someone who has been through burnout as well as get expert advice on how to recognize it and what you can do to prevent it from happening in this season. Remote works explores several other topics related to the new world of work for those of you. Who are baseball fans that are missing those days of eating overpriced hot dogs and drinking oversized beers. They pull back the curtain at major league baseball for a glimpse of how america's most beloved pastime is working remotely. You'll hear how the mlb has had to adjust just about everything but they do from new rules about how we gather to virtual fanton stadium. You'll get to look at how they've embraced this new world of flexible work. I recently listened to the burn out. Episode of the remote works podcasts. And here's what i thought. Melanie does an amazing job. Bringing diverse perspectives from experts and people who are dealing with the issues. These experts are trying to solve. It's basically a combination of great storytelling with practical advice. That you can apply to your life or your work. So search for remote works anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Thanks to remote works for their support. Well i want to get to my my specific. Nba related questions. Like i said. I'm the one who plays sports video games religiously but couldn't tell you most of what's going on in any major sport at any given time lake surprisingly knowledgeable about the nba only because two k. Commentary basically is like an encyclopedia of random. Facts that you get to hear while you're playing the game But one of the things that you said in the book is that being at the top comes with pressure along with the assumption that the best player on the field already has all the answers will be perfect and shots and passes and will score the game winning goal with no time on the clock. I e robotic perfection star athletes internalize these demands often form cold hard walls and barriers between themselves and their teammates coaches and loved ones. And one thing. I wonder so. I've i've had a Nfl player who was here. And you one of the things. I asked him was you know. Why does somebody like tom. Brady become tom brady And you know the rest of the people in the nfl most of them. We don't even know who they are. You know like. I couldn't tell you any single name of a defensive lineman or tackle on any team Because they're pretty anonymous in the grand scheme of things and i distinctly remember that scene from any given sunday where lawrence taylor is talking to jamie foxx. He mentions all these star athlete. He's like for every one of them. There's a million people you never heard of. And so. I wonder you know you've what you've been part of a team. And then i guess the example uses as i've verson because he's the one who drives me crazy onto case since i can't seem to slow him down. I what i wonder is. Why does somebody like alan iverson. And up in his circumstances and white is. How do you get an allen iverson with this insane town. And then how do you get a michael jordan. While wildly different life outcomes like what causes that I'm not sure I mean they grew up in very different circumstances. Allen was not born to a fifteen year old single mom in hampton roads. Virginia in a really difficult time and then ended up in a really racial incident. We ended up. He would argue a maybe many might Unjustly put in jail His life experience was really hard and people in that community wrapped their arms around him and saved him. If you will And one of those savings became john thompson a former coach of georgetown university who brought him in. But alan allowed things. That people don't know about him. I happen to to know him fairly well in love him. I love him for the person he is the person he aspires to be. He was taking care of thirty eight families. Thirty eight is peak. And you know why. Who's taking care of them. Because they took care of him. And i love that and i i wish some of the decisions he made were different than i'm sure he wishes that as well boy. Oh boy here. Here's a a person who wears his harness leave. He takes care of those he loves. He is as passionate as anyone. You'll ever meet and appreciative of the moment. Time that he had That is very different from michael jordan jordan. One grew up in a nice nice family and had a a really good lifestyle growing up and laid. Unc was drafted third overall in in life. Guy good and he. They both have tell you what they have in common. They both have like insatiable appetite to compete in a crazy drive to win and They to be elite elite person at any level. I think it's i think you have to make trade offs. And i think that's the case in business or in your faith or in the community or as an athlete like life is about trade offs and they both made different trade offs for different reasons at different times. Got different outcomes I don't think either of them would would trade what they did or how they did it. appreciate about both of them. I will say that being an athlete. I'm not one as you know being around a lot of them. It's hard and i wouldn't aspire now knowing what i know now. I wouldn't aspire to being pro athlete. It's too hard You don't know it's very very difficult terms of the trust You know relationships are somewhat fleeting and peak by the time. You're twenty eight. And you know. I i look at warren buffett and warren buffett made ninety percent of his wealth after the time he was sixty five as so. I don't know. I think it's i think it's a hard life they live. I agree with the one and a million one you know in a million might be ten million or twenty million or one hundred zero but but i. I think that lifestyle is really really hard. I think though that makes perfect next question i had. I think those of us who are on the outside we look at you. Know sort of Watching the star athletes and we think they live these incredibly glamorous lives. They're all well off after reading andrea gonzales biography and then there was another Book that was written by sports. Journalists called forty million dollar slaves You know and they both talked explicitly about race in the nba. Which i'm curious like you know how all that has affected you. Guys what impact. All the black lives matter movement has had on both the league and individual athletes But i think one of the things. I distinctly remember was the jeremy lin documentary where he had mentioned it was an interview. He did on a podcast where he said. You know the fantasy reality are really different. You know your he's like it's a high paid job but it's a job just like any other job and your asses on the line every single night and there's always the possible you're going to lose their jobs so so two questions. Come from that one is you know what's the what's the difference between the fantasy people have about this life and the reality and you know what is it like what is it that enables guys to perform at the level that they do and do it night after night after night. Yeah the first part is the only thing we see is the gladiator mama. I guess the only thing we say we see them walk on the court as fans and cheered or boot and we will. We don't see is the thousands thousands thousands of hours of work work on their bodies. Work on what. They eat how they take care of themselves working on their craft. We don't see it. I see it by the way. It's unbelievable how hard they were. I think the elite elite guys they have a a drive they have all the physical tools they have all the mental tools and they haven't insatiable appetite to compete. And so you have. Those three things are or what happens when when they stay healthy so But i i. I wish people could really see how hard dwell bead works. Or ben simmons works or jack shoes nico he shorts. I mean it's this is a total complete commitment and think about what you're giving up your giving up any sort of private life right anything you do. You go out to restaurants again photographed in you know anyone you date is public fodder Any mistake you make or you think about last time you were frustrated at work or you said the wrong thing to a friend or you had a bad breakup like want that on. Espn sportscenter and they haven't and it's hard. It is really really really really hard. But i like. I said i don't envy the lifestyle. I meyer now And i do you know what. I am a little bit. Maniacal about is. What i talked to him about is making sure that they're protecting themselves financially to they have to figure out who to trust in her life and and they've got to save their money when you're when you're when you're peak your peak. Economic windfall is between twenty and twenty eight. I mean think about yourself. When you're twenty years old i could. You can find my here. No if i had that much money. I would have absolute squandered it and when you said that reminded me of this podcast that died charles. Barkley was on with dr phil. And i don't remember which player it was. It was a younger player on the team with him and go. Somebody had scolded him. It was one of the older guys on the team because he bought something like two or three cars right when he started playing and the older guy was like. You're an idiot. What are you doing and he said. This is actually one of the reasons. A lot of these guys make all this money but they end up leaving broke because they are just caught up in the lifestyle. Yeah i don't know. I think a lot of misconceptions about that. There are a lot that end up that way. The problem is they're young and they have time and those are too bad too bad things. If i were twenty years old and you gave me five dollars a year. I wouldn't understand taxes. I i wouldn't understood like this is going to end ever of course because i was immortal twenty. I wasn't thinking about retirement. Nouns guys these guys coming through their smart brands. it's it's different than the especially. The league is the ben simmons. Joel embiid they have. They have you know. They have a complete understanding on their their brands. In how they their money they have people around him and that's great so for the league. Is there most of them are really good hands. It's the guys that come in and for anyone else making a million dollars a year should be enough. You do that. Five years should be good to go it. Just as i say wealth is not about what you earn is about what you save and so our council is to save fifty percent of their salaries and get him to a financial adviser before insta check in. Go have fun with whatever else they they make and many cases they'll never know the difference in the wake of when they're thirty forty fifty and have plenty of money for the rest of their lives and their family's life you know but you get that but it's hard it's hard you got people tugging on your left and right not sure who to trust. Everybody has idea Everybody wants to be. Your friend is a ton of ton of pressure. But i think the the the players union has been greet the the nba nhl in terms of education in. I've seen a huge movement from when i came into this league in early nineties to now terms of players managing their brands managing their money managing relationships. It's a it's a whole other world. It's been promise more to go of course but a good practice You know it's funny. Because i the question i had next sort of About the contrast pre internet pre social media Versus now because one of the things you say is a world dominated by instant gratification and obsessed by the spotlight of now trust. The process is a commitment. You'll keep a long term view at the forefront of your planning and decision-making this has implications far beyond basketball. And the reason that struck me in particular is because you have a world particularly for these young athletes right who basically grew up watching. You know people that you've worked with like they saw the early nineties and they've come into a world with instagram and twitter and all the stuff that they didn't have before like effectively like you said they're their own brand and cal newport. Who was a guest here. Who wrote a book called digital minimalism. Another one called deep work had done some work with nba teams and one of the things that he told me that i found really interesting was he said when people tweeted the night before the game their performance actually suffered and so i wonder you one. What's been the contrast it from pre internet. When you see these guys come into now. And how do they not get sort of lose. Their sense of driver caught up in all this instant. Gratification it's yeah i'm not sure it's instant gratification. As the issue. I think that there's so much negative pressure out in the world to stand out that people you know we have seven and a half billion media members now and the way they get attention is to be critical and again i go back to my twenty year old self and what if i got five thousand in my era i guess it would have been handwritten notes. But now it's it's tweets saying how terrible was how awful i was. That couldn't shoot. Couldn't pass should be traded suck. The worst person of all time don't belong in the city like that's what's happening so now you're twenty years old and you have five thousand people and you read every gone. Because you're twenty you can't auto and having had a little bit of hate tweets come my way i will tell you like as a much older much more mature much more secure person just because of my experience it hit me and hurt me and i was thinking about like okay. What is it fans only new impact that they were having when they were nasty with these kids. And that's what they are going to come in the league. I know they grow into men for years. Old you're still a kid. I think it's really really difficult and i. I couldn't imagine when. I say how difficult it is to be a star in. Oh i think it's hard. And i think if fans ever knew the impact that it's their virtual boo what that has on players in their psyches and we've seen it. We've seen players come out and talk about a the mental mental illness. They've had or the mental fragility. They've had in this league. I think a lot of that has to do with social media. And you don't see that in our teens to so forget about athletes. It's happening in junior high levels of depression or up levels of anxiety. Where he does coming from. Like that is eighty. I need to be perfect. I need to be i. I need to be liked. I need to have everything. Go well or reading something. That doesn't feel good or feeling like you're excluded or that. Welcome to real life And i think they're. They're in a fishbowl. And i think it's very very very difficult thing and if i if i had a son and he was playing in the nba or daughter playing the wnba. I tell him to shut it down. Just shut down. We'll go have some fun. Be be president. Beware your feet are in. Let's go you know it's say that. Yeah it's funny. You say. I'll send you the article cal. Newport wrote an article on his blog about bryce harper the baseball player. And i don't know anything about baseball. I just remember this article very distinctly. Because he said you know. Bryce harper doesn't use social media and he apparently landed a four hundred. Thirty million dollar contract was like that's the upside of not using social media that much. I think that that's a pretty strong case right. Yeah we have some players now that if you ask them like some. They're building big brands on social media. that's wonderful to and others. That don't have interested in actually have some doing it for them. So they don't have they're not saddled with it so they're not saddled with someone saying you can't shoot you can't jump can't guard or whatever but it's too much and it's nicely said it is. I mean it is a is a bastion of hate. That doesn't belong world totally. Yeah it's funny because we always so you. We have certain players that we struggle with onto k for some reason me and my roommate really cannot get chris paul to shoot three pointers. And i'm like wait a minute cripples a lights out three point shooter like maybe we should tweet him and ask him like. Is there a reason. We're not able to make threes with you like maybe you'll have an answer But this is a question out of morbid curiosity. So i admire ongoing. Joke is always that the only reason i'd ever need a billion dollars as to buy an nba team and my mentor. Said okay tell me something. What would buying an nba team do for you. Like what all that actually give you. I was like courtside seats. You don't need a billion dollars for that. I'm sure you can find these cheaper way but with that in mind you get the the people who you report. I'm guessing your bosses or the owners of the team. What actually enables somebody to get to a level where they can buy an nba team. Yeah i i. The word owners pet peeve of mine just because it has such such negative connotations on when you're talking about people so i was used managing general partners managing partners. Yes what they're both private equity guys. I'm josh harris. David blitzer Both self made one was at one of the co founders of apollo josh harris and one is one of the early early guys at blackstone They are considered some of the greatest deal makers in the world. Private equity is has been a really good business apparently over the last twenty or thirty years. So yes so they've a they came in Before the steve farmer purchase of the clippers for over two billion dollars which really catapulted the prices so they got in at least. Today's standards are really reasonable number. And if done really Business but he had no. It's it's you have to be you have to have a b. in front of your wealth to to be a control partner in one of these businesses now but boy. What a room like you walk in. You know i've been in the nba boardroom. Now for Eighteen years and i've been at any for twelve years. And i mean everyone you'd want to to be or do business with you know from ted. Leonsis mark cuban to jim dolan to joe lake St bomber titans of industry. Dan gilbert. I'm you have like the the who's who of of the country in a room and they're your partner anna and so that's that's the end inter scarcity only thirty teams. I think that drives a lot of value. Well it's funny. Because i remember even mark cuban said in an interview with chase jarvis on creative live. He said you can become a millionaire through hard work. He said becoming a billionaire involves a bit of luck. Yeah marks very humble. He he happened to get got to know him fairly well over the years and i mean he's brilliant and so he would always say you know when people would give him a hard time when he was first in the league. He's like no no. I was just lucky like that. Guy's never been lucky this life. He is brilliant in hardworking passionate and compassionate and has an incredible high for brand. And he's the best has the best. Pr mind on issues of anyone ever met in my life. But i i appreciate what he's saying and there's a degree of lock that happens to all of us. There's also people who make their luck and he seems to be one of those guys if you want to couch it as lucky. He's a guy who's made made a lot left for himself. And i don't think it's an accident and they're they're look what i have loved for my father to be a billionaire. Impact me down money. Yes i would have Broke unfortunately but however if he did any passing a billion dollars eighty for sure. I'll take you there. Were these sports. I really do love him. And and it is fun and you should tell your mentor. Wherever told you that you can buy courts. It's better than that. You run the thing. So special and spectacular. You're around the greatest athletes and performers in the world. And you have this incredible platform to get out and do good and drive. Change community is. It's i tell you what it is wonderful. Yeah that's that's literally by sort of crazy ridiculous out. Their goal is to basically own an nba team. Oh you'll be my first call. If i ever in the position to be like to actually by a team of oh scott. I'm ready. i actually that. I have a couple more questions for you. And then we'll wrap things up so one of the i wonder is i. There's also lessons here for life. What what goes into a turnaround. It's like you get something. Remember as i was telling you before we hit record when i was in college. The warriors were the worst team in the nba. To the point where you could buy season tickets for sixty dollars on a tarot cheat at the berkeley campus. In fact our season tickets for cows ball team were more expensive season tickets for the warriors at that time. So how does a turnaround like that happen. And then what happens when you have an organization like the spurs where they've just had dominance for so long because i feel like every. Nba team goes through turnaround period. So how do you won you know. Bring the turnaround about and then. How do you handle those transition. Years was rebuilding years. Yes i think in many cases You know turn around. There's a there's a. There is a formal china. Take one is you have to be realistic about where you are when you when you walk in and you truly have to get a real assessment of where you are. Then you have to have a really clear picture of where you're going and then you have to be willing to make the tough choices to get in the that formula will take place in the form of people you know. Do we have the right people in the right places that will take place. Do we have a culture that is inspiring one of accountability one of challenging immobile. Keep our best talent here in going on. And that's you know players otherwise and do we have the resources to get us there. And then there's the great arbitrage which very few people ever talk about patients and that go with life that goes with business and it goes with sports can imagine. Imagine if you said five years from now. I want to be able to speak mandarin or i would like to understand financial accounting or i would like to have two million followers on my podcast or i would like to write another book or i would like whatever that is like key match if you just took a five year view and you said okay now. I understand where i am understand where i'm going now. What tough choices to make to get there. You're gonna have to sacrifice. Give some things up. You're gonna have to bud. Can you imagine if you got incrementally better everyday towards that goal Given our day towards that. How much better would we be. But we don't because we live in this world talking about instant gratification. Right now everything that and this is not the way that you find sustainable success and you find sustainable Over time people who are great but they say overnight success takes about eighteen years. Maybe not now if you want to be a youtube star. But i don't have you know like i'm going to create something meaningful and like i said whether that's a whether it's a an organization or or family or driving change a community just it takes a plan right people time patients while hopefully i'll get to come in sit courtside with you at some tower soon as world opens up. Come see me. we'll have some fun. I d i will absolutely take you up on that despite being the weirdo who never even watch sports. nba gator suitca team to be scrambling to contain. You won't believe how good these guys are. Oh that's like a guaranteed loss for me. It's like when you play those online. I like i always tease my roommate. You know who basically you know. Basically jokingly in our household refers tells says the nba god. I'm like you know what go play some thirteen year. Old kid line and we'll find out how good you really are. Because i done that once. And you look at their records and we're like oh three or four games here there. Each of these kids is like ten thousand games under their belt nearly yet and in ten minutes. They're up by thirty points so fun. Yeah i'm still. Wow so i have two final questions for you has your definition of success and what it means to be wealthy changed over the course of your career and with age yes considerably You know i just read this. Incredible book called the psychology of money. If you haven't read each picked up a read it's on my list on list is it okay get it talks about a couple of things. One is not moving the goalposts and another talks about is when is enough enough So sure when it comes to financial security know having gone through what. I went through with my folks. I'm definitely on the more conservative side in terms of saving. so so that's been good But what would. I have to have to call call on a day if you will feel comfortable. Continues to to increase over time and that may be natural fact. I wish it weren't true but but it is And that's something that is evolving For me But i i'm ma'am way way way to blast like i said i i don't i don't have any material needs my wife doesn't have any material needs So you know. I mean our our view of success is very different. It's you know we live comfortably. Can we not have to worry about money in the future in. There's some number for everybody that can do that and then can we help those. We love along the way on. We've both been helped along the way and oftentimes for some people might be helping them with other people. It might be helping him with the car. It's appropriate data and other people might be buying a car or helping them with some little things and we typically stay close to those we love and are close to us and who are less fortunate financially. They might be made way more than others of life may have a great spiritual center. They may have a wonderfully peaceful family and they might be like thrilled and happy work in a nine to five job and that's a guest in a different way. I don't have that gift you know. I have this insatiable appetite to grow and and the only thing that upsets me status quo. And that's that's that can be. I'm sure you know i know. We're real in towards the end. And i don't want to throw bombshell in. But i the older i get the more i sense that our best drinks are also aquiles. He'll vice versa. And so if you're a slave to saving that might be. That's that's not great for you right. You might miss opportunities to create experiences for you and your family it you know. So so there's this whole notion of you know if you're this route leader is not me but around that might be be great also mike grindstone people out. So i don't know. I just keep the notion of of Sometimes you're should think about that as it might relate to you like your your strength near your achilles heel and related they are so i know i've kept you here well over our time so i want to be mindful of that so i have two final questions for you one quick but i'm wondering what the impact of race relations has been you know particularly in the wake of black lives matter and everything we've seen in in the nba. Because i i know we've seen things like players you know basically not playing first quarter and then stuff like that. If i remember correctly on you'd for you guys like on the management side. How does how this affected your relationships with players and vice versa. Sure well first off. What a gift. What a gift to have a platform that is meaningful enough to drive change. And that's that's not something i ever overload secondly building diverse teams for my career. And when i came here to the sixers. I used to joke. Needs to make everybody uncomfortable. There all looked down. I would say hey. It's great news. We have such a diverse team. We have old white men in young white map and everybody will take their heads and i started putting processes in place to change that and you know. Half of our final candidates had to be diverse. Candidates in time never happens overnight but over time you look forward now. We had one person of color director above. We had one woman vp. Bobby and you look down. Twenty six percent of our staff is african american. And we've got nine women were sdp's or bunk including our sciarrone cr Officers had charges. They can like okay. We're making progress so when this came when this one i mean kind of the the great white awakening is i call it when it came in and hit america finally I wasn't embarrassed. I'm proud of what we are organization. I'm proud of the first to be half. And i'm very well aware that the nba. You know seventy five percent. The league's black. You know and i know that our staff has to reflect america and so in when friends of mine call me scrambling i i said to all like. Hey brace yourself like hiring chief diversity officer. It's a nice step but about five years too late you know. And but it's definitely that will add. It's best time to plant twenty years ago. Second best time right now for sure. I just saying like there is a high risk time for white males running companies for sure and you know what it should be and we have an obligation because we can do better and we should do better and to do it. You know you can have to work harder. And you're gonna have to recruit harder you're gonna have to recruit and you're going have to have a long lens and you're going to have to take some chances and you gotta get out of that notion that. Hey i'm not hire the guy i worked with last time every time because that's what's happening because we're more comfortable hiring people that look like us we just are you know And that's okay. What i what i love is the next generation is much better. The generation of my kids is even better and we're my generation is better than my parents is better than their grandparents. I just wish the rate of change were faster and we were fortunate. We have a doc. Rivers are coach and elton brands are joel manager of to african americans who are incredible kits They they're incredible leaders and inspiring inspiring. Not only to me in our team work but also to the community at large in the world and we need more smart talented people out there ringing the bell. That is not okay and so i feel like it's been have been a blessing. Nba absolutely incredible leadership on. This issue has been been fantastic. And let's hope this is the start. This isn't something that goes away on. This is something that we we spent time. We focus on and hopefully can be a platform to accentuate all the good. That's happening in the world and we're doing we're doing cool stuff. Do we set up a by black program where we highlight. Five minority owned businesses in it by the devil community newark and in philadelphia with the seventy sixers. We've increased vendor spending to have a minimum of vendor spend which is which has been unbelievable education for me We've invested in our first real estate project in a community of need a predominantly african american community in philadelphia. That's the first of many and we're working on some credit programs. Is it enough now. it's not you know. Can it be more of course. Can't do we like to do be an example to others we do and and this is a place. I'm not. i'm not ashamed or afraid to be. I am not afraid or ashamed to trip and fall and sometimes i don't say all the right things sometimes i don't do all the right things as a leader of my heart is in the right place. My intentions are in the right place. And this is organization that cares and it's diverse inclusive enda and we look forward to hopefully being a leader considerably for a long time. Oh wow this has been absolutely incredible. So i have one final question for you. Which is how we finish all of our interviews at the end mistake creative. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable. I want people to be understood by being their authentic self. They used to have this t shirt that said be yourself. Everyone else has been and i wish more people live like that. I mean it's okay to search and to have a mentor teacher. And that's okay to have a role model But the truly unmistakable people or authentic or i find or are authentically. Themselves an amazing. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us and share your story. Your was so is just pin wonderful and funny in an eye opening and insightful. Where can people find out more about you your work the book and everything we up to other than going to a seventy sixers came. We'd love to see the senate. You're definitely coming to a sixers game. Oh i will absolutely take up. On december the world you can go to amazon barnes and noble of course but most importantly i would love for you to go to an indie bookshop near because small businesses are struggling right now and they need your help. So if you're going to buy this book. And i appreciate advance Take care of that local bookstore. The canadian you can find them online wherever you are and keep listening to this podcast because i am visit so matter so thank you. I thank you very much and for everybody listening. We'll wrap the show with that. Thank you for listening to this episode of the unmistakable creative podcast while you're listening for there any moments you've found fascinating inspiring instructive. Maybe even heartwarming. 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