Heather Dawn Church /// Part 2 /// 340

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

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It's off the busy but it's on the STITCHER APP APP yet. Check that out that is enough of the business. Everybody gathered around grab chair grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime breath it took almost two years to find the remains of Heather Church and the crime scene where the remains were found offered offered no clues as to who the perpetrator of this abduction and murder could be the daily sentinel ran an article with the headline girls remains pains found after two year search this from the Associated Press the article labeled Timothy Belbek. The man who found her skull and reported ended his findings as a transient camper and states the death was ruled a homicide and the coroner's report indicates. Heather suffered blunt force trauma trauma to the head. This article has some interesting pieces of information in here as well. It goes on to say heather was last seen wearing white cotton mm pajamas and no shoes she had laid out an outfit for school and her wedding was rumbled as if she was asleep until something Ed awaken her enter Lou Smit who is loose mic captain his detective that likes to climb in and out of windows. NDO is probably best known for his involvement in the Jon Benet Ramsey case. I think he's on the smaller side to captain that might make give him the the extra super ability of climbing in and out of windows you'd think so. I don't think he looks small to me. I didn't either but I read read some story where he decided. When he first became a police officer he needed to balk up because he was like I want to say he was like five have six to maybe five seven but like one hundred and fifty pounds when he first started on the force he got into some situation where he said a A large woman was attempting to drag him across the street and she was having some success and that's when he decided I got to start going to the gym. I got beef up if I'm going to be there. I think that was my mother. Well you know I like to use the term supercop loose-knit. It is certainly a super cop in his career. He worked on more than two hundred murder cases in which a suspect had been arrested and tried for for their crimes he was a detective with the Colorado Springs Police Department. He joined the force way back in nineteen sixty six and worked his way way all the way up to the rank of detective. Liu help to get the arrest and conviction of spree killer Freddie Glenn and his accomplice. This Michael Corbett Glenn was found guilty of murdering three people in Nineteen seventy five at one of them being a Karen grammer. That's correct correct this including the killing of Karen grammer younger sister of actor Kelsey grammer he was also involved in the arrest and conviction Shen of Michael Corbett. This was Freddie Glenn's accomplice so together we have. Glenn who was found guilty of murdering three people nineteen seventy five Glenn Corbett together were responsible for a total of five deaths in and around Colorado Springs back in nineteen seventy five so now I would like to introduce you to another man John Anderson now. I'm not talking about money in the bank in Seminole Wind John Anderson no I'm talking about the John Anderson who I will deem to be another supercop. Anderson was sworn in in January of Nineteen Ninety five have as El Paso County's new sheriff and with him came loose smit Anderson wanted two things one for Lou Smith to take over as captain of detectives in El Paso County and to to solve heather churches case which by this time nineteen ninety-five was looking like it would never be solved in the over three years of the case law enforcement really only developed per the evidence evidence in interviews a few suspects some of the members of Heather's Church at one point turned on one another heather's Sunday schoolteacher teacher and a family friend were questioned extensively as we're heather's parents everyone police in the FBI looked at either had an the iron clad alibi passed a polygraph test or both again this included heather's parents Diane and might definitely a lot of suspicion towards awards the parents. I think when you have a case like this where you have no leads no clues. That's Kinda where the direction that it just naturally takes on yeah now in nineteen ninety five loose-knit took over as captain of detectives and he took over the Heather Church investigation. Lou is pretty old school and he said that regardless of what other people thought that they knew about the case case Mike and Diane Church were not suspects. He said he knew very early on in his investigation that they together nor separate were involved loved in any way after meeting them both and speaking with them separately. Smith believed they were truly victims and far too good of people to do something so terrible is not clear whether or not they took polygraph test and passed or not right the information nation. I have that came from the sheriff's. Department states that they did okay now. Smith also offered up after speaking with the parents he offered up. Some of his expert opinions on the case to the parents have either. He told them he would catch the man that killed her. He said he he believed the perpetrator was an intelligent mail and that his name was already in the case file he also believed unlike the FBI that the motive behind why the PERP entered the church home may not have been sexual. Smith wanted to start his investigation at the very very beginning and reviewing the case he noted the recovery of fingerprints from the Crime Scene Captain Schmidt recognized that although the prince had been forwarded to both the FBI in the CBI he was aware that there were in fact ninety two separate automated fingerprint identification systems or Apis for short so here we are once more capped at the latent fingerprints left on the master bedroom window screen from from inside Heather Churches House. Yet seems like that's the biggest piece of evidence. We have forensics expert. Thomas Carney was is the man who educated smit on the trouble with the fingerprint systems in fact Carney he came from Miami. He worked in law enforcement and and Miami he was the first person to compile a list of the eighth systems in the United States Canada and Mexico and Short North America as said this number as of nineteen ninety five was ninety two of these systems. Carney Arne put together ninety two sets of black and white photographs of the prince that they found on the window screen and this was to be mailed off off to all ninety two automated finger printing identification systems in March of Nineteen ninety-five. They got the call they were waiting on for years so sound the trumpets Captain Burke where we're still working on the trumpets your occur at that was good taking lessons. That was good but I mean we. We need some actual real trumpets. They got a match and fact they got two matches one in California and one in Louisiana so ninety two of these different places they send off these photographs two of them. Call back and say hey we we gotta match for you on those fingerprints that you sent us the fingerprints were matched to forty two year old. Felon Robert Charles Brown who who lived at one six six six zero eastern Ville road and he was one of the churches nearest neighbors. He lived in a double wide about half a mile from the churches home where he lived with his wife. Brown worked tree farm located on his property where he lived dipped brown was arrested for burglary and vehicle theft in Louisiana where he served ten months he was also charged with something in California California and I believe he may have served a little bit of time there but his record he has a record but it's for nothing nearly as heinous abduction or murder order in one thousand nine hundred seven his parole was transferred from Louisiana to the state of Colorado the fingerprints found inside the crime scene at the Church's house were submitted and resubmitted over the years to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation but for whatever reason when Brown Brown when his parole was transferred his prints were never entered into the CBI system so even though they're checking them. There's nothing there to match them to four days. After they got the match they arrested Brown outside of a store in town and brought him into the station for questioning the first thing that they wanted to know of course did Brown know the churches. He said no in in fact he said he was a loner and he and his wife did not socialize much but we know their neighbors but he'd lives a half a mile away right so so again it's when we talk about these different cases. It's important to always keep in mind the lay of the land they own that big property pretty. He owned a decent sized property as well. He was what I believe is reported to be their nearest neighbor but that's half a mile away. They really really wanted to know had he ever been to the Church's house and this would be for any reason at all right. No he said in fact the closest to their home home that he had ever been was when he assisted a delivery truck that broke down on the side of the road near the churches long driveway out to the road that is exactly what they wanted here got him got him captain righty yeah because if if this guy was known if Robert Brown was known to do like handiwork and the area and they go. Hey were you ever in their house. Oh yeah why was wasn't friends with them but I I did some painting and for them row. Where did you do the painting. Oh master bedroom the other bet you know what I mean. By then put the gives you gives a reason why by the fingerprint should or could be there yeah and really that that is so key to this case as you just stated he he has given no reason at all for his fingerprints to be there. Let alone be inside of the home while mind you dumb ass where where the prints were found were found technically inside the home because the here's the thing is they ask you about your neighbors. Y- you know that this girl girl was abducted right so if you just start lying insane y yeah you'd I went over there a couple of times and I'm sure they asked for the family and I'm sure they didn't but I don't know that'd be covering your ass a little bit. Let's get into that a bit because this. This part of the story is quite interesting. I think really when they arrested him at this store. That was not their intention. They actually wanted to set up they wanted to catch him meaning. They wanted to get him in a conversation asking him questions about the the church homicide and and catch him that way but catch him off guard meaning that he doesn't know that they are looking specifically at him right so once they get the match on the fingerprints. Their idea is okay. Let's send a handful of officers and detectives out into the area and let's knock on everybody's door again and let's ask. D- sets of questions that way. He thinks it's all this is just all routine you you know we're we're doing a routine questioning of everybody in the area. We're not specifically looking at you right. This is where they were hoping saying that he would say. I've never been to their house and the problem was when they sent all the officers out into the area. He was already under surveillance. At that point he left to go shopping and at some point they got nervous. Though law enforcement got nervous and said we have to arrest the sky they were really worried that when they place him in cuffs and say look you're being arrested for the murder of heather dawn church rate as you said he's a dumb ass that he would wise up and go. Oh yeah I I was there to do yard work or whatever yeah I babysat him yeah because even even if the churches said No. That's that's not the truth now you. She said you yeah you have his word against theirs. Yeah now the reason why police believe that he she wasn't smart enough to come up with some like that. No actually they think that that he was so convinced convinced that he never left his fingerprints their meaning they believed that he was wearing gloves during the abduction and he may have taken them off very briefly to replace the the screen right and very likely he's being questioned about this three years later he remembers that he wore gloves to the crime scene but doesn't remember taking them off for a very brief time yeah that makes sense so he so surprised by this whole deal of leaving fingerprints there they. He tells them straight up. He's he's without a lawyer at this point in the questioning and he's telling them. There's no way possible that those are my fingerprints he said. I don't doubt that you found fingerprints there. I doubt that their mind and they say well. We have your fingerprints back from when you were arrested in Louisiana and we check them. They got a match in Louisiana. We gotta match with your old fingerprints. In California. He goes well. That's well and good but people make mistakes. My fingerprints could have been mixed up with was somebody else's you know what testing or pictures he saying. Take my fingerprints right now and test them again because I'm telling you my fingerprints were not there. That's that's how adamant he was and they did so and they checked it again right so now you have that in your back pocket as the detectives are questioning Robert Charles Brown yeah and during all of this remember he's he's asking for everything to be tested again. Take new fingerprints. They're doing all this tested again now and while they're doing this they talk him into a polygraph test yeah and later he's told he failed the test and he's told again again doesn't matter how many times we fingerprint you run the test. They're still matching the set that we found on the window screen at the churches home. Right the other thing too captain is during these interviews while they're being conducted. The police were at Brown's home. They're searching the place. They already had a search warrant before they arrested him there. They found girls clothing and girls jewelry stuffed into a pillow case. He has no children Um. This is a bit unexplained. What this stuff was or where it came from? What is explained. Is that none of it belonged to heather. They also go. It's probably trophies of some kind yeah so they found stolen items from another home. There was another residence that was kind of nearby so these could've just been things that they don't have to be from another murder victim. They could be things that he stole from. Somebody's home they found this is just straight up bazaar. I've never heard of this before but I do know. People steal these types of things. I've just I've never found one in any of the cases we've covered. They found a stolen. Bob Cat Earth mover machine worth eighteen thousand dollars a captain you and I I both know that is not a small machine That's a large thing to have stolen from. Someone apparently I. I don't know why he stole it. He must have used it for some kind of work. Keep in mind. He had that tree farm. He had a big plot of land there. Some suspicions says to what he could have used it for but his his wife was aware that he stole this large machine. She said he used it. The only thing that she he knew that he used it for was he dug a big hole with it drove the machine into the hole and then attempted to cover it up attempted to bury it or just covered very the machine as said he they found stolen items from another house or other residences in the area area this. Is You know some of the more alarming stuff they found newspaper clippings a lot of them. Regarding Heather Churches case he was is in fact arrested that day and charged with murder he would be offered eventually actually pretty quickly. After the arrest he was offered a deal deal offer to his public defender. This would be so he could avoid the death penalty and this likely may have been the best case scenario for the investigators seeing that at this point when they make this offer all they have as far as evidence goes is his fingerprints right later on they did get Brown's wife to admit that he was not home. The night heather vanished so have a fingerprint and we have no solid alibi correct now he brown maintained his innocence when he spoke with the police but he did ultimately ended up pleading guilty to murder this so he could avoid the death penalty and trade. He got life in prison. This move was quite interesting the prosecutor they they didn't really think that that Brown or his attorney would take the bait. Take the plea deal right because again such little evidence they they really made a strong push and what they did was they were venting this guy. They were calling where they knew he was from. This guide moved around a lot. They called his hometown where he lived for a long period of time and realized it former neighbors of his one of them had gone missing and one of them was murdered. Oh great both of those cases unsolved in fact the missing money on top of on top of heather churches this case correct yeah and so what they're threat was will call it a threat there are threat to the defense attorney was he. He should probably hurry up and plead guilty to this before we find another body right so ultimately that's what took place the prosecutor did take with. Heather's parents first to make sure that they were okay with them. Making an offer heather's mother Diane said if he is willing adding to plead guilty she is willing to let him sit in prison for the rest of his life. Would you buy tee shirt for fifty dollars if you knew it only costs seven to make no we want it ever ever. Lane only makes premium essentials using the finest materials without traditional markups. 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So why not get started today go to better help dot com slash garage then simply fill out a questionnaire to help them them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash garage all right welcome back Jack Cheers. Everybody cheers Jesus be Colonel Cheers to you through the glass. crispy save separated us. I feel like I'm in solitary. Take confinement. That's where you belong. I can't see you all I do is hear voices so while Robert Brown never confessed to the detectives and never confessed in court. It's believed that he confess to Susan Lawrence. This was his placement counselor and what he told her. She passed along to authorities so let's go through this. What what she told the authorities he said to her. She said that he he brown enjoyed roaming his neighborhood at night looking for houses to burglarize. Sometimes he would take things sometimes he wouldn't when he went to the churches residents. There were two lights on inside the house no cars in the driveway and he did not think the anyone was home. He was surprised by Heather Church inside the House and killing her. He says was unintentional. Brown said that he did kill heather inside the home. He placed one hand over her mouth and one hand on her neck. He demonstrated this to Miss Lawrence when he's telling her story and said he recalled doing this for only a couple of seconds against he thought but now believes it must have been for a longer period of time. He assumed that he had strangled her because she she was dead. When it was over now Mrs Lawrence asked Brown if it was possible that he had broke her neck and to which he replied that that was a possibility yet because I mean Brown's a pretty big guys like six three roughly yeah. Robert Brown said he placed Heather Churches Body in the back of his pickup truck and drove to the mountains where he disposed of the body he denied having any sexual sexual contact with heather church all right so Bam Boom Bang case closed. Get my coat tip my hat and ride nope. You're you're locked up. You're right Kevin that is not it because there's much more to the story. In Nineteen ninety-six Robert Charles Brown who is supposed to be rotting away in his cell and Colorado strict state corrections. He receives receives a letter. This is an anonymous letter. The letter says you got screwed and here's why there was something wrong with Colorado Auto State Law and from July ninth to September twentieth of one thousand nine hundred ninety nine there fucker. I was good up to September twentieth of Nineteen. ninety-one. Colorado was without a death penalty. This is truly really bizarre. We've never come across anything like this. In any of our cases so what that means is when the night when she was abducted when heather was removed from the home technically the state of Colorado for that very brief time period less than ninety days days didn't have the death penalty does not have the death penalty so offer then of hey plead guilty and we take the death penalty off the table. It was never on the table because it didn't exist during the the timeframe in which she disappeared bullshit offer yeah so this gets pointed out tomb and now we have the appeals process who whoever's pointed out to this scumbag yeah. Why is this is also scumbag. Let it be got screwed. Well well good right unless it was one of those things where the guy was trying to rub it in his face. You know like you're so no this but you know got screwed because the case took so many years to apprehend somebody bright. I don't think that the prosecutor cuter did anything malicious here. I don't think they were aware either. No like you said it was a small window like ninety day window yeah. It's just one of these weird inconsistencies. One of these weird weird little glitches that was that was going on there unaware of it so anyway now. We have the appeals process. He's got a pretty damn good appeal when you think about it. Hey I plead guilty to something that only because the death penalty was being thrown in my face in the face in the face well the current prosecutor though the one that now has to face these appeals comes up with a great plan. He says to the court system look. She was abducted on the seventeenth this whole thing with with the no death penalty expired on the twentieth. That's just a couple of days later. He's also saying it took us all this time to solve the case. She was found over over twenty miles away from her home where she was abducted. We the prosecutor's office believed that the crime was sexual in nature that the motive was sexual nature and based off of all of that evidence in theory and thought it is our argument that we cannot say for certain certain that her murder occurred on the seventeenth that it's very likely he may have kept her for a couple of days and the murder occurred on the twentieth or even later to this. The appeals courts at least two of them that I could find. They agreed with that. They said look you can't prove approve the date of when she was killed and if you do you know he's in all kinds of trouble and all kinds of mass here because now if you go back to he proves what day she was killed and he proves that he killed her and he boom he still ends up with life in prison break so. I think that's just truly fascinating. The prosecutor later came out and said look. I thought my argument was a good one but a week one. It was intelligent argument but it was a very weak one. He thought they would lose turns out that they win. This thing got all the way up to. I believe the Colorado Supreme Court State Supreme Court to which which I think they tossed it out and said we don't even WanNa look at this thing truly. When you have a child killer nobody wants this guy to get out on some kind of tech technicality while yeah and on top of that you think he's possibly linked to other crimes. That's correct act and that's still not the end of our story captain because on March Thirtieth Two thousand Robert Brown's sent an unsolicited letter letter to the Fourth Judicial District Attorney's office in Colorado Springs the letter was addressed to whom it may concern inside inside this letter and I don't have the full letter itself. I don't know if the full letter has ever been released to the public but there is within in this letter a statement from Brown. This says this is very cryptic. Seven sacred virgins entombed side-by-side. Those less worthy are scattered wide. The letter taunted investigators claiming the score. Is You one the other team forty eight the obvious reference here being that he was arrested tried and convicted uh of the murder of heather dawn church. They scored one. The other team must be him Robert Brown. He's got a score forty eight eight so obviously he's implying that he's involved in other crimes. Possibly other murders another statement included in this letter letter says if you were to drive to the end zone in a white transam score could be nine to forty eight that would complete your homecourt homecourt sphere a real dumb. Ass Brown closed the letter by demanding that he not be contacted. Now there was a second letter that was sent so he sent a letter and then he said don't contact me and here's a letter. They sent another letter yeah. The second letter from my understanding I believe even less of that letter has been reported over the years. Maybe maybe even some of the statements I just read could have been from the second letter itself. It's all very cryptic. His writings and what has been released is it's not clear if it's if some of the letters are just short and they were released in their entirety and then other letters were longer and only bits and pieces were actually released but what we do know with the second letter there that one included a map and we would later learn the map was he took took a piece of paper put it over over a map like an atlas and made the outlines of several different states and so he outlined the state of Washington California Colorado New Mexico Oklahoma Texas Arkansas Mississippi and Louisiana an inside each one of those states outlined he put a number this number totaling up up to forty eight so almost indicating that within side this state for instance state of Washington wrote the number one. I've killed one person in the state of Colorado. He put the number nine in Louisiana the number being the highest of all the numbers was seventeen. this captain captain. I believe probably would have went nowhere because he's writing to the District Attorney's Office in Colorado Springs Rings. They don't seem to have any interest in corresponding with inmate. Rob Brown turns out then about two years later a man named Charlie. Hess is going to send a letter to Robert Brown. He doesn't know their Robert Brown has in fact sent these letters already to the District Attorney's Office Charlie has is a former CIA agent and he was working with a guy and I say working they were kind of doing this as as a hobby but Charlie Hassle along with some other individuals working with Lou Smit all these guys guys were pretty much retired by this time what they would do is they would get together about once a week they would hang out they would eat pastries. Drink coffee smoke cigarettes and they would talk about old cases and really what we're focusing on was. They were wanting to take on some cold cases uses. All of these individuals were involved in law enforcement or the CIA at some time. This would be a good group of people to volunteer to take on a cold case now during some of their discussions it comes up that one of the individuals wants to know. Hey Lou or anybody here in our group. Has Anybody worked and putting away. A murderer that they believe was truly a very dangerous interest person. That was was a serial killer was one of these people that had numbers you know multiple murders the today's committed. Lou Smith says to his group. I always fell Robert. Charles Brown was serial killer and so much so that when working to put him away. We were aware that way back in Louisiana. A neighbor of his one went missing and another neighbor was found dead was was found murdered so there's already a bit of a connection. I seen a lot of people cover this portion of the story and a lot of people done a good job in doing so but what is usually lost in this other churches case is usually kind of a a by the way or a way to kick start the whole story of Robert Brown and his communications with these cold-case volunteer investigators gators Brian and often. It's reported that Lou smit just had some kind of six cents that he was It was a gut feeling that he'd been working in these types of cases so long that he just had a six cents. The Robert Brown was a serial killer. He had he had a sense. Robert Brow was a serial killer because they were aware aware of a missing former neighbor of his. Na murdered former neighbor of his doesn't take much. You know you don't have to have a sick sense to come up with that. Heather Dawn Church was a neighbor of his as well so you see a similar type of M. Oh it's really a bit of a shame that when we talk about these cases from Louisiana it I find it strange that within just a handful of months it's these two cases take place. We have a murder. Somebody goes missing. Both of these individuals were neighbors of his but they were neighbors within the same apartment apartment complex as him and further. Robert Brown worked as the maintenance man for this apartment complex. His brother. I believe was the owner or the landlord of these apartments. It's really strange to me that they weren't able to make any type of connection. Shen I think with the missing woman with her case that the husband was under suspicion and that would make an obvious reason why you wouldn't connect them but with with the missing woman she apparently had the doors had the locks John. Her doors changed the day before by the maintenance man of the apartment complex who in fact was Robert Brown. It seems like there would have been a connection to some of these individuals yeah and even though Robert Brown claim that he didn't want to be contacted. There'd be a bunch of corresponding emails emails for years yeah well letters right and so it's almost like. Charlie has kind of befriended. Robert Charles Does Brown and got him to open up. We have a man who says he doesn't WanNa talk. It is in Charlie's arsenal though that he was aware the look. This is the guy that opened up the dialogue. He started the dialogue on some psychological level. He does want to talk and so I'm going to work doc that angle and see what I can get from. It's interesting that you have a guy. A serial killer locked up and I will. I will say serial killer because I believe him to be just that but we have someone like. We've seen so many times before now. He's coming out playing this game of. I know more than you know and here's all the other bad things that I've done but I'm not going to tell you all the bad things that I've done. I'm going to hint and Nudge and wink you through it and you. You've got to figure it out on your own. it's all really truly. I mean it's a lot of it. I feel is bullshit and I don't really want to waste anybody's time here by going through all of the correspondence because as you said this goes on for quite some time and really all Charles has wants wants to do is he wants to sit down and speak with Robert Brown face to face that's what Charlie early has did in the CIA back in the day of Vietnam War. He was somebody they interviewed people. During wartime he gave lie detector tests during during wartime he is extremely good at communicating with people getting people to open up getting people to tell the story tell the truth and figuring out what are the truths and what are the lies with inside their story he eventually through befriending or at least leading Robert Charles Brown around believe that the to our friends got brown to allow him to speak with him face to face and this all it did was open up correspondents respondents because Brown was giving little hints and winks nudges saying. I've killed roughly like you said captain. I've killed forty. The eight people forty seven of them. You don't know about in some of their talks and correspondence. He had the number as high as fifty one but he he was really giving them nothing to go off. He's like look. They keep telling him you gotta tell us more. If you want us to clear any of these cases we can't do anything with this and if you don't give us more information. We don't think you're serious. We think that either you're making the shit up or you've lost it and you believe it to be true and it's is not true at all. Eventually they get him to talk and give more details on some of these cases where he will Oko. Maybe give a nickname of an individual. Maybe give a spot where he dumped the body so on and so forth and this leads them to drought months and years of working on this this leads them to starting to complete some of the story now mind you all of the states he listed he drew on that map he did live in those states and they could find evidence that he in fact lived in those states at one point and the three states that he listed having the highest number of kills interestingly enough are the three states where he spent the most time so there was some stuff if there was some meat on the bone in the beginning for these investigators to believe that there could be some truth to Robert Brown's story. Now we know with these psychopaths in these narcissists none of this would come without him getting something in return for offering up this information yeah. He was unhappy with the way that he was being treated. He did not like where he was being housed and he also didn't feel that he was receiving proper medical treatment basically he wanted to transfer and again. Charlie has pushed him and said we can't help you unless you help us eventually eventually through a lot of back and forth and through a lot of working and a lot of hard work what we ended up getting is we get another solved case because because in July of two thousand six brown pled guilty to the murder of Rocio sperry this he he was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for forty years now. Unfortunately this did not come without brown getting something in return. Turn Brown was then transferred to the state of Minnesota to serve out his time there. What's very weird here. Captain uh-huh is I found an interview with Heather Churches Father Mike and I believe it was from two thousand and fifteen or sixteen ecksteen where he had a complaint and a very valid complaint he saying because of Brown's manipulation of the system because because he's working these deals to get moved and and plead guilty to an unsolved case that he he did not know where the killer of his daughter was being housed and he felt that that was unfair and I agree one hundred percent because at some point Roy Brown was moved and it wasn't public knowledge to know where he was located. I found a letter that is believed. I I have plenty of reason to believe that it was written by Robert Brown where he states the at that time he was housed in Florida in the state of Florida and there he is complaining that they reneged on the plea agreement that he was supposed to be in Minnesota a soda and after being Minnesota for four years they transferred him to Florida where he does not want to be and I hope he stays where he does not want to be. We welcome to Florida the captain that we have here and I do want to say I am very and the thing that I want to say here. Captain is that I think that is great. The work that Charlie has loose-knit and all of their little cold-case cold-case volunteer work that they did is fantastic. Yeah I don't WanNa say it's all bullshit and it's all for not because they did get a conviction in the Rocio sperry case and that was so important not just to get another case off the books not just to get some answers but for so many years her husband was thought to be the one that was guilty eh of her disappearance and we now know that that's not true and that guy was a victim himself not just from being the husband of a of murder victim but he was a victim of being thought of as being guilty of her disappearance in her murder for so many years so. I'm very glad I'm very happy that they got that one off the books. I do think that a lot of Brown's communication and a lot of what what he hints at we talk about a number of forty eight possible victims. I think that that's total bogus bogus. I think it's a bogus number that he he came up with. We're talking about he saying this in the early two thousands and at the time I believe a number of forty eight would put put him at the highest number for a serial killer. That's who he wants to be. He's never been anybody important. He wants to be somebody important and he does is not mind the attention why because he is so guilty of heather dawn church is murder and now he's locked up in a place. He does not want to be for life and he has nothing to do. He is to put it quite frankly. He is board everything that he did when he was on the outside a lot of it being illegal a a lot of it being perverted deviant behavior he cannot do now and so he's come up with some kind of game to pass the time. He's come up with a number that makes him important when he is not. I also think that part of this game is he feels screwed by the prosecutor by the District Attorney's Office of Colorado that because he as you said was dumb enough to one one not give a good reason why he would have been at the Churches House to didn't lawyer up three agreed to a polygraph test in which he failed and then four please guilty so he can avoid the death penalty yet. There was no death penalty yeah so welcomed the Florida dumb ass yes. I think he feels tricked because he was he was an idiot. He was stupid. He was a moron. He feels tricked and now his way of retaliating alienating is to send them on this wild goose chase keep in mind. Who did he direct his letter to. He didn't send it to the media he he didn't send it to the El Paso County sheriff's office he sent it to the District Attorney's office the same district attorney's office that was able to put him in prison is in for life for the death for the murder of heather dawn church. Now I do believe within side. This forty eight this magical number or forty-eight captain. I do believe that there are some other victims in their of note of of of no of ones that he actually provided some detailed information this would be the murder of Catherine Hayes from Louisiana Wanda Hudson Hudson and Faye self also of Louisiana Melody Bush and Ninety Mendoza both from Texas and then when Lisa Lowe who was killed an Arkansas so while I do feel that a lot of his stuff is probably bullshit. I would love love to see some further movement on some of these other cases where there was some detailed information provided by Robert Brown. Unfortunately loose-knit has passed away. He passed away. He had cancer and by the time the cancer was founded. It's spread to his entire body yeah but I agree a lot of good work here. In Robert Charles Brown deserves any bad thing. That's coming his way the other thing about his his. If you WANNA try to call them confessions regarding these murders even the ones where he offers detailed information. What so you will see is him minimizing his involvement? Hemmitt minimizing his role in the murder of of these individuals. I personally believe that most of his murders if not all of them were sexual in nature they they seem to be that that was the motive the driving force for his actions. I don't know about when he set out to enter the home to heather dawn on Churches House but what I will say here regarding his bullshit confession that he offered up to his placement counselor. What what do you see there straight up minimizes his involvement in the whole situation it makes it. It's all so confusing to him. He killed killed her. He didn't even really know why he killed her he didn't he didn't intend to kill her and I think that is absolute bs. I think that there's a lot of evidence that will show that there was no reason for him to remove her from that house. His confession somewhat makes it sound like she surprised him and he reacted in before he could realize what was going on. She was dead. There's evidence to suggest that she may have been sleeping when he came upon her that night and if he was afraid or got scared off son because he entered a home that he thought was empty and he reacted in. That was the result assault. You just can't believe that because if she was sleeping he had the opportunity to be afraid and then leave the home after he was in the home and when he left there the only thing that was missing from that home was that little girl whatever struggles you are facing from depression. Shen and anxiety to trauma grieve better help can connect you with a professional counselor at safe and private online environment. It's so convenient you can schedule secure secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely confidential best of all. It's a truly affordable option in our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started simply go to better help dot com slash garage and fill out a questionnaire questionnaire to get matched with the counselor. You'll love today. Check out better help. Dot Com slash garage a lot of really good sources for or this case here captain one of the better ones is the newspaper the gazette they covered this case pretty extensively over the years and did a very good the job one of the best sources is this week's recommended reading. It's a book titled. The Devil's right hand man the true story of serial. Oh killer Robert Charles Brown. You can write that title down now so you can pick that up and find out more. If you're busy just go to our website later. Go Go to our recommended page. Go True Crime Garage Dot Com. We will have that title there for you so you can make that selection and add that to your library. We want to thank everybody for listening. We want to thank everybody for the wonderful five star reviews and we WANNA thank you all for telling your friends about true. Crime Garage urgent till next time be good be kind. Don't let

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