Harriet the Spy with Jenna Ushkowitz
Forgotten is a new podcast about hundreds of young women who have disappeared and turned up dead in Juarez Mexico right across the border from El Paso Texas it's a story about borders, migration and corruption. We talked to victims, families, FBI agents and a former US ambassador to understand why these crimes remained unsolved. Listen to forgotten women of whereas on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your put costs. On the dog cast, questions asked movies have within minutes. Are All discussions, boyfriends and has been. Do they have individualism? The Patriarchy's FM. Start Changing with back. The time has come. The woman said to the other woman to talk of many things of shoes and ships and sealing wax of cabbages and Queens File Caitlin, and why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have jeans rhyme with queens jeans. I was like I was like. Is that a feminist thing? She instead of wings seems more. Wait just needed to. That's true. And that's you know. That's my bad. Genes are a prison for all genders. And so in that way, it's a very inclusive piece of restrictive clothing. Praise true in conclusion I liked your poem. Thank you so much It is from today's movie, but before we get there. Hello and welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name is Caitlin Toronto my name's Jamie LOFTA and this is our feminists movie podcast where we examined the representation of women in film and we use. Something called the Bechtel Test Jamie. What is that even while I think I remember? Here's what I if. If memory serves. Here's what it is. The Bechtel test is a media metric invented by cartoonist Alison Bechtol sometimes called the Bechtol Wallace test that requires a piece of media do the following there has to be to female identifying characters with names for our purposes who speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue or more, most movies can't make it happen. Absolutely, can't. wiz I just watched that new movie with Chris Hemsworth on Net flicks and I had. It doesn't pass and anything. It doesn't pass the good movie test. She does a pass. The Bechtel tests. It doesn't pass the I finished the movie test. A. Lotta movies don't pass which ones that extraction extraction more like I want to extract myself out of this movie watching. Experience show loving. I haven't seen it yet. But today's movie I. Feel Like Today's movie will do okay on the Bechtel test not to not to spoil. It would be imagine how deeply gut wrenching disappointing it would be. If this movie somehow did not pass the test, right, it'd be devastating or recovering. Harriet the spy, and before we even introduce our guest who we are very excited to have on the show. We wanted to jump to a quick. We had with friend of the show. She played Janey in the movie. Harriet the spy. It's Vanessa Lee Chester. Hi Vanessa welcome back. To be back I honestly when I got caitlyn's email. I was like what is going on. Because I just been thinking about you guys and I was like. Yeah, you posted. Something on Instagram and I was like she's so fucking funny and I literally was like I had such a great time chatting with you guys and all my friends who like listen to the episode were like this is such a fucking legit show and I was like I. Know Right, and so when you guys sent me up. I was like they like me. We love you. Welcome back. I'm excited so so recovering. Harriet, the spy and I guess we just wanted to start by talking to you about like your experience on that movie. How do you? How do you remember that time in that shooting experience now? It was fantastic like I can't speak for a lot of other child actors, but I loved being on that set so much I feel like of all the characters that I've ever played i. feel like the most similar to Jamie like she's weird. She's very expressive in the way that she dresses and that denote so much of her character. She's passionate about science, which is something that you don't see a lot in young women and I'm obsessed I swear. That is my friend, but we've never met. and. Like in my mind like Neil, degrasse Tyson is my uncle, and then his best friend. Is Bill Nye and we're just all this huge great family. But yeah like working on that sat was just so fantastic. I feel like the story is just. It's like everything. A precocious curious kid wants to live out and then getting a chance to actually bring it to the big screen with such an honor like I loved every moment of it. Yeah I'm still like I'm still friends with everyone like Greg and I talk. Yes, Greg is like my boy like I. He will have a special place in my heart for the rest of my life. Yeah and then so now years later. What for you or just based on? You know because I'm. I'm sure people talk to you about it. fairmount. What is what is the legacy of this movie? SORTA like become over time. I feel like that's a really difficult question, because I feel like there's something really special about this movie, but it resonates in different ways for everyone. I got a really sweet DM I. WanNa say at the end of last year from this. Lady on Instagram and I'm only saying race, because it's relative to the, it's important to the story and happens to be white and she was like Hey you know I. Just wanted to reach out to you and see if there was any way you could possibly send me an autograph for my sister. She's adopted and she happens to be black. And we used to watch Harriet the spy all the time when we were little because we were like Janey and Harriet are basically sisters, and we looked at it like us like two little girls who are outcast, but are be grounded in who they are and I was like crying, reading the DM you know. And I sent her like I sent her an autograph copy of my DVD, and like a poster and I was like this is for you, your sister, your brother, because like you guys are basically Janey hurry in sport That's the. It was. Like. We're friends on link to now. Just so random like. A dove job I'm an actor trying to lay beyond more movies. It always surprises me when I hear from fans of Harriet the spy, and just how resonated for them and I feel like a lot of girls who I've heard some women from the Lgbtq community say that like I kind of felt like Harry may have been like the first lesbian that I read about you. Know and I was like Whoa. That's something that I've never thought about, and I just think that that's cool that like it's almost a for interpretation, but you can see yourself in it regardless for sure. I love it. a quick question I had because neither Jamie never have read the book that the film was based on, and we were trying our research to figure out if the Janey character was specifically written as black, and we couldn't find anything out about that, so we were wondering if if you knew about that, or if maybe the character was just written pen of ethnically ambiguous and they. Know, it's really interesting that you brought that up. I'm glad that you said that because I was going to bring it up myself. Once, you guys asked me to do this. I started. Pick the book back up and I was like I. Need to refresh my solvency with in I. WanNa say the second chapter. When Harry is going back to school, they're describing all of the kids and they describe Janey, and they're like Jenny is a shy meet grow with freckles, and like doesn't really like making eye contact with people and I was like Whoa. I mean freckles could be any race, but they're generally associated with people Robin Caucasian and I was like Whoa. You know and it kind of. Of made me think like I feel like Jamie might have been white, but the director didn't want that and I remember auditioning, and they were like we want you to be bold, and we want you to be like charismatic and have a lot of confidence, and like I loved it I was like she's wild. Like this is the version of me. That I wish I could bring to school every day, but it seems as if Janey in the book is actually a little bit more questions herself a little bit, which I thought was an interesting adaptation Cool Yeah Janey in the movie definitely feels like it aspirational like care like you WanNa. Be Like! Oh, my Gosh! I remember like I knew I was getting paid but I didn't really care. I was like, but how can I have? Giannis entire wardrobe bats. We really need to talk about like again like I go to college with this money that I'm allegedly making, but what about those suspenders that you guys made I walked though. Does, he get to keep anything I don't remember to honest I'm sure I did and who knows? Justice for the overalls. GotTa find them. They're like some type of like. It's a wrap type of thrift store in Burbank and I just got to find right. do you have any other kind of final thoughts that you want to share any thoughts at all about your experience being in the movie or just with the story itself or anything along those lines we'll now that were chatting. I'm really excited to revisit the book and just read it now that I'm older and have a different type of analytical I because when I was younger I remember starting the book and I. I dropping it because I was like Oh like I. don't even want to read the rest. I just WanNa get a notebook and I thought it was really funny. Because I was actually in the movie I just finished shooting, it and I went back to school with a notebook and I think it's really funny as an adult looking back on. How though I knew that I had filmed this entire spectacular movie like? My imagination was so sparked by what she was doing. All I wanted to do was run on roofs and spy on people and my mom was like. Don't try that Shit. Do not even try it. Like I went to school with a notebook like basically pretending I. Was Harriet before the movie came out. That's amazing. I had the same experience where I saw the movie as a young child and was obsessed with Harriet and her notebook. By gear and I. Wanted to be Harry it. Yeah, and that's what's so amazing about it. We all wanted to be Harry. You know like just something so courageous about her like. That's what we all want to do is pretend older and like that's the thing that I find to be very endearing about. Harriet is a lot of young kids. We all feel like we're adults like I. Remember telling my mom I could run. The country at ten was confident that I would be a better president than all the people that I saw on TV and maybe I was right I mean. Are you wrong? I know it was like you're right out. Who knows I was a pretty wold little nine year old, whatever but. It's amazing how mature Harry is and like in the book they denote the parts that are specifically her writing in her notebook with different font. So you know that those are thoughts, and there's a part in the book where Ole Golly says to her like you need to write down everything you don't need to like. It right down things in the way that you see you know and as you guys remember the movie like her friends see the notebook and everyone loses it, and I'm like. When I was little I used to be like Oh. My God Harry so me and she so messed up, but like now that I'm older on Mike. She's a child and children are amazing because they're so honest like she wasn't actually trying to be malicious. She was just documenting in writing down what she saw without trying to impress anyone because she didn't feel like her. Thoughts would be out in public, you know. I don't know there's just a thought that I had no totally I have I have the same feeling. Like he's like Giannis Weird and my blow up the world. Yeah, if you had a friend who was always talking about blowing up the world at ten, you might be a little skeptical a little. That's I. that's like part of what I really love about. The movie like is that it makes like friendships with kids like it takes their friendship seriously, and they're like complicated, but they're also like. Yeah, of course, a kid would say that if they or I mean. If they didn't think anyone else would ever see it, so you can like feel for her, but also be like you can't do johnny like that. and. That's a really great point is like it definitely brings like a drama. That's that's their world and you know we're sitting here. You're in sixth grade. It'll be fine, but like sixth grade is everything when you're in sixth grade. So Yeah I love that point Jamie. That's really legit. Well Vanessa, thank you so much for contributing for giving your amazing thoughts and firsthand experience of being in the movie and thank you for being in the movie and. You guys are so amazing. Thank you so much for inviting me back. This has been such a great little piece of joy during what we're all going through being able to discuss one of the projects that I've been in that I absolutely adored being part of and I cannot wait to hear this episode and how you guys, break it down because you guys kill it and I know you're gonNA. Do It justice. Yes again and we'll have to have you back. Like a a legitimate episode like a full episodes license. Don't don't play me I will stock you if you. Know that it's all on. We've got it documented. The challenge love it all right. You guys are awesome you to talk to you. Thank you so much have a good day. Thanks again Vanessa for chatting with us, and that brings us to our wonderful guest for today's episode. She is a podcast hosts a producer and actress best known from Glee. It's Jenna USCCA wits, hello. On you guys so excited to be here or so excited to have you love a good quarantine. Record you now and. Oh Yeah. It's a good time to watch lots and lots of movies. It's true. Yes, it's full on Escape Zone I. Love it right right. Tell us about your relationship and your history with Harriet the spy well. I loved Harriet the spy. This is totally like we're similar in age Michelle, Trachtenberg, and I, and when this came I was like finally a girl who can wear jeans and sneakers and doesn't have to wear dresses all the time, and like somebody who kind of like is wearing what I would want to wear bats. The I thought I had when I when I saw. The really cool, little yellow raincoat and I started acting when I was really really young and I would do voice overs a lot in I got a call to do some looping, which is the background voices throughout the film that they need to fill in like a playground or at school, or whatever, and so I went into do looping for Harriet the spy, so in some of these teens I'm actually like whispering like especially in the the carry like blue paint scene. Yeah, I whispered like into the girls ear, and it was so cool. That's your voice and so I still get these like many checks from paramount for ten cents. From! Every once in a while. It'll be like sixty cents you're like. GOING OUT And yeah, and Michelle and I actually modeled together a lot growing up. We were just you know we kind of cross paths a lot in the business so? but I love the film and actually also loved it so much that I got a note. A marble notebook I'm duplicated the private on it and I wrote all these like crazy things about my family in them and one day I walk in my room. My Mom's like what is this she's like what did you write and she's like? This movie is no good for you and I. It was all maintenance staff, but she was like I was really my. Parents have an interesting relationship with this movie because like I'm sure. That's such an amazing connection. That's so cool. Your Voice has a presence a life in the movie. David Lee remember standing in this big, a voiceover room and like booth. Boot though and the movie was like in this on this massive screen on the wall, and they would just start, and then you had. You don't have to play and like being a playground with like other kids. It was the most fun that's so cool. That's so fun. Jamie. What's your relationship with the movie I? Have a very. Complicated relationship with this movie in that I was not allowed I was I was pretty I was like I was like three or four when this movie came out so I didn't see it when it first came out, but I wasn't allowed to watch it when I was little because I had like I. I was like a full on like undiagnosed OCD child, and so I took a notebook literally everywhere, and I would get in trouble. At school about it because I did this thing from. I I remember doing it in first grade, but I had this like real child. OCD fixation on. Down everyone in a room was wearing and saying. For no real like it was unlike Harriet, I had no endgame. There was no objective or career goal attached to my notebooks but I just did it compulsively, and I would get in trouble for it. All the time and people were like this makes me uncomfortable. Why should keep writing down that I'm wearing a yellow shirt and So it was like such shake chronicle problem for me that my mom was like movie about girl with notebook. We can't have it in the house like so I. Didn't get to see it and I'm so bummed because now that I've seen it I'm like first of all. My mom was kind of right, and it definitely would've made made my notebook problem. A million times worse and it was already pretty bad. But I it's such a good movie, and it's so like I I, just like I love it in every single way I love movies that let kids be like complicated and kind of messy, but not fall into that precocious child trope that is so annoying and. I just think it's so well done I. Love like the direction style of it. It seems like everyone in the movie is like having the time of their life and. I just wish I could have seen it when I was younger, but I'll hand it to Jill. She was probably right not to show it to me. Yeah Jill being a good parent. Well. She's just like I don't want my kid to get bullied at school for her horse notebooks anymore than she this. What's your experience with this movie Caitlin? I did watch it when I was a youth I was deeply impacted by this movie, but what? I remember way more than the movie itself was what I did in response to the movie like I think probably saw it only once or twice, it came out in ninety six. I was ten so I was kind of the exact. Exact right age for it. Yeah, but I think I saw few enough times that I don't remember what the story was at all, but again it impacted me so much that the movie made me want to be a spy. I had my mom get me a notebook just like Harry. It's one of those like marble notebooks I put together this little like kit of spice stuff. Stuff anything I could get my hands on which was mostly just like a magnifying glass, and like a pen, but I was like I'm going to be a spy and I. I started eating mayonnaise sandwiches because I didn't like tomato, but so I didn't Wanna eat the tomato part of the tomato and Manny's sandwiches that Harry it makes, but I liked mayonnaise so I would just. Just eat just plain mayonnaise sandwiches. I would do this thing where I would slurp soup very obnoxiously and then say good soup like Harriet does in the movie like I picked up all these habits from the movie, but I re watching. It prepped for this episode I realized I had no idea what this movie was about. I like completely forgotten everything about the story so. But again? It really really had a major. Impact on me when I was a child, so That's It's it's iconic. It really is. It had such a like so interesting, and had such an effect, even though you didn't even get to see it like it was really impactful in like finally seeing a girl who's not so dainty and like wanting to have a notebook to write things down like I. Just I think it was impactful in a positive way, even though parents probably had a very toward relationship with the film for their children. But I feel the same way. I definitely made those sandwiches and I definitely like I fell very like I just wanted to be her I wanted to replicate her I wanted to be her. She made it really cool like she. She was really cool. Totally I feel like Yeah I. This is this movie is good representation for people who double down on disgusting sandwiches and. And I include myself in that community. Someone's like. Yeah, this is the worst food you could possibly eat every single day, and I'm doing it proudly all right. I mean it also speaks to and I'm sure we'll talk about this a lot, but it just speaks for the need for representation of movies, about little girls like doing cool things and doing things that like. Other little girls or little children as viewers can aspire to, because there's just isn't much of that still, and the fact that this movie exists and was so impactful for so many people just like speaks to that need. Yeah, and just being like reflective of what a six graders interests actually are, because I like movies for like targeted at young girls and sometimes young young boys as well as like. Like eleven year, olds that are like there's a crush narrative that's takes ton of real estate, then like I don't know there's so many like sixth graders are weird, and their interests are weird, and their friendships are like intense, and I liked it. This movie kind of reflects all of that for sure we'll. Should we talk about the story and then go from there? I say as okay couldn't hurt. Okay so we meet Harriet Michelle Trachtenberg of course She is a young girl who wants to be a writer. She learns everything she can, and she writes down everything. She sees in this private notebook that she always carries around, and that's why she's a spy. She's a spy because she's gearing up for a career as a writer. We cut to her at school. She and her Best Friends Sport Gregory Smith. And Janey of course played by Vanessa Chester who you just heard. They are insects. Grade and Harriet is nominated for class president along with her arch. Nemesis Marion Hawthorne. And the best perk of being class president is being editor of the sixth grade newspaper, which is a weird day. That was I was like. Wow, what a strange to powers to connect regimes like the president shouldn't edit the newspaper. Yeah, that would be like if Donald trump was like the head of all news right now. He's the head of some news. Yeah! I'll add to say. It seemed like a conflict of interest to me I agree also I don't know about like yours schools, but like we didn't have a sixth grade newspaper. There was no journalism of any kind is for me like yeah. Yeah, it was like high schools when school newspaper right okay, just just making sure. Yeah, before that it's just all you just trust what you hear over the loudspeaker. That isn't a totalitarian regime exact very envious of those classes where you'd see like. They have the morning news where you got to be like a newscaster. I would have totally been that girl, but like I didn't. We didn't have that I have that. We had like a teenager that went to the principal's office to do the announcements every day, so the principle wouldn't have to. Just, had the principal outsourcing their job to children well food, yeah. Well unfortunately for Harriet Marian her enemy WYNN's class president then after school Harry. It goes off on. Her spy wrote. She spies on this guy who has a bunch of cats, of cats and now's a great time to mention Catholics. Caitlin cats have eight Nipples, and there were many guy I don't know how many cannibals, but there's a lot anyway. I was counting my cat's nipples day and I couldn't I couldn't get to aid some of them. Don't have that many. Factors! Why not getting facts? Because that's what Google told me the one time I looked it up fake news. Cancel me. Cat Faxes fakeness. Anyway okay so. Harry, it's on her spy out. She's looking at the guy with a bunch of cats. Then she spies on the Hong Phat family at the supermarket. She spies on the delivery guy who she thinks stealing vegetables, and then she's writing all of this down in her notebook. Then we meet Harry. It's nanny goalie played by Rosie O'Donnell. She is a very important figure in mentor inherits life. She's like she's a better parent than Harry. It's parents right. Who are these kind of upper crust? Don't seem to spend a lot of time with Harry. I think her dad is like a comedy, screenwriter or something. There's exchange of dialogue where he's like I'm the funny man. I do the comedy. The other guys are the money men and I like to think this is commentary on how most male comedy writers are actually very uptight and not funny at all. Agree Yeah What an interesting choice of job for this ever crossed family. Right yeah. What were you writing on Sir? I'd like to know, is he? What show 'cause this show kind, we'll part of what I love about. The aesthetic of this movie is like it could kind of happen basically. Whenever like they do that. Cool thing where there's not any dated tech really included in the story, so you can kind of project it to be whenever, but yeah like what? What if he was like I'm a Seinfeld writer and you're like no. Canonical, what is he supposed to be writing? That's really interesting. I was thinking that. Yeah, who knows anyway one night A date over, and it turns out to be the vegetable steeler guy and the go out for dinner and a movie and their late getting back to Harry it's house and when they return Harry. It's mom is super worried because she's like where I didn't know where Harriet was, so she fires Golly but then like immediately takes it back, but even so this all transpires to Gauley, deciding to leave. It's time for me to go Harry. It is grown up enough now and yeah I'm GonNa piece out also Harry. It's mom was being very unreasonable in that situation straight, yes. Like this woman is raising your child for you. Can you chill? Yeah, I mean well women be lashing ounce. You know. Good, things she has her comedy. Writer husbanded deeper in check. Psych what? anyways without your parents are weird, they are thing is weird. But golly leaves and parting words to Harry it. Are you know keep being a spy and keep writing, so she does she. She does her normal spy route with the the cat guy and the Hong phat market, and she sees her friends sport, struggling to pay for groceries and she pretends that he dropped a dollar outside so that she can like help pavers groceries, and then she snoops around Earth Kits House. Random. What a fun treat because you hear Earth a kit before you see her, and so I was just like no way what what what and then she it's. It's her and it's just. It's clear that she was on set for five hours and then. I'm so I was so, what a treat so happy to see! Oh yes, but it's at the kits house that Harry gets caught and good spies never get caught, so she's down herself. For having been caught so the next day instead of doing her usual spy route, she decides to play with her friends. She's like. To be a spy, I'll do normal kid stuff so during a game of bumper tag. It drops her notebook and her nemesis Marion Hawthorne picks it up and starts reading it to a group of kids, and it becomes clear that it's basically a burn book where Harry is just saying pretty mean stuff about Oliver classmates, including her best friends, Janey and sport. So now that this is all out in the public, everyone hates her and her friends ignore her, and the kids at school are like passing around notes saying that Harry it smells, and they built a clubhouse for catching spies, and just A. It's a cool club. Thoroughly. High want that Clubhouse, right? They duct tape it together. It's it's. It's built the way that kids would build a clubhouse and I appreciated that exactly. Yeah, then her parents are like you're obsessed with being a spy, and it's not healthy, and they make her give up her notebook. And then there's an incident at school where Marian and her friends dumped blue paint on her, and she freaks out, she goes home. She ripped her notebook up very big fat liar. Even though this movie came before big. Liar I'm just? Paul Giamati got blue painted to it happened Oh. Yep, I haven't seen. Children's movie trope just getting dumped on by blue paint by blue pain. I don't know I don't know all right I. Think piece on it. and. Then Harry decides to get revenge on her classmates for doing this and she carves like a hit list to her desk and. Afraid. She gets revenge by cutting off girl's ponytail. She ruins various school projects. She tells Marian Her dad doesn't love her pretty traumatic things like that. Terry retaliate very rebellious. She's listen Harry. It's a flawed character. It's true we'll talk about it. Mean there's like there's little moments, too. I Love Harriet so much but I'm like Oh. Yes, she's also a rich Brat. Hassle Dude things where I'm just like. Oh, you just like have so much privilege you can't see. She lives in an enormous apartment, really nice. Upper East side I I was like A. I. I mean so much. It boggles the mind, and it's also such a cool movie house. It's rent controlled. You guys there. They pay seven hundred dollars a month to live there. She inherited it from her grandma's grandma, okay. It's like frightens. Right. So her parents are like Oh. Something's happening with our daughter. She's really lashing out, so they take her to a child psychologist and this is one. She's maybe starting to realize that what she was writing in. Her notebook was Kinda Nasty, and it hurt people's feelings, so her parents give notebook back and golly comes back for a visit and Golly is like here's. Here's the thing you need to apologize, and you need to tell some white lies, because white lies are okay and also maybe try writing something other than notes in your notebook, so then Harriet goes to apologize to Janea sport. They're still sour at first, and then in class Harriet suggests that people besides just the class president should get to write the school newspaper. The kid with the purple socks is like yeah. I agree and Harry is a really good writer. I nominate her to be the editor of the newspaper. It's kind of incredible. How much the kid and the purple socks ends up coming through and happening narrative significance and bright. Don't see it coming, and this is someone who Harry it said should hang themselves. It's really and he really gets over it. He this is the thing piece I want. The kid with purple socks went home and was like you know what and stones may break my bones, but good journalism is good journalist. that he advocates for. Sure does so everyone else's is like Yeah Harry. You're the new editor of the newspaper. So then she writes a retraction apologizing, saying the things that she had written before weren't fair. She was too quick to judge people and jump to conclusions. And then the movie ends with her class dancing around during their winter pageant like in a gravy boat in a gravy though. Harriet is an onion I think they're. The costumes are pretty fun. It reminded me so much of. Does anyone remember that episode of Hey Arnold where their fruits in the play? Yes. Another like fun. Children's immediate trope. We got an address. The kids like food. People love it a million. It's so good. And that's the story, so let's take a quick break, and then we will come back to discuss. You Know Me. I'm always watching movies for fun and for my job. But How am I supposed to watch movies? When there's a huge glare on my TV from all the sun coming in through my windows, but then other times I want natural light in my home like when I'm taking hundreds of pictures of my roommate's cat. The good news is blinds dot. com has me covered. They make it simple to shop from home for top quality, blinds, shades and interior shutters with easy online, ordering and free shipping. A lot of us are spending way more time at home right now. Now so now more than ever. 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Is that because I didn't remember what the movie was about like my ten year old brain just completely forgot I assumed that this story was going to be kind of like a Nancy drew type story where like Harry it would have. have to solve a mystery because she's a spine. She comes across a thing that she needs to figure out interesting, but I think what happens in this movie is way more realistic to what an eleven year old girl would get involved in rather than like somehow being able to solve this like this mystery ray, so I thought that was actually really cool, because I as I was watching. It I was like what's what's the Miss? Wins the mystery going to happen? When are they going to establish on? I'm like Oh. Wait a minute. That's not what this movie is about. It's about her. I like that she like it. They make it clear that she's devoted to what she does. And she is good at it, but you're also like, but like what is she doing? which is how all of us when we were eleven? Did things like we were like? Yeah, this is important, and this is cool, and then at the end they're like well. What did you accomplish your like not? Nothing I got into a fight with my mom right? Hey is such a cool complicated character where I was I was really like kind of like really impressed with how this movie just like goes there with like parents, conflicts and the like subtleties of communicating that Harriet parents are like kind, have failed her in some ways, and that there has to be a conversation about how they have failed her in some ways, and how they just don't really understand her, and there's like class. Stuff tackled in this movie where like? It doesn't clear I mean clearly demonstrate through how she treats. Sport doesn't understand. Class really at all and has to learn that and she's like Fox up, but still I don't know. Yeah, it like the movie tackles so many different. Things, that are all like stuff that affects kids, but it does it in a way that is still appealing to kids. It's like it's incredible. Yeah, doing a job because it's nickelodeon. I think he was one of the first movies at Nickelodeon had released and I was reading about it, because I think it's interesting that the book by Louise Video is has been banned It's on ban books list for different like school children's libraries and school libraries and things like that. Yeah I don't. Don't remember ever seeing it in a school library, which is like because it goes back to the thing of like. Are you know appearance probably have this weird toward relationship with the movie because it's like the parents failing and they're not. You know failing their child, and not being there for her, but I like the idea of like the power of words like teaching the kids with the power that they have with their what they say, and what they think and how they express it. I also thinking about like sweet little golly. And her relationship I love that that relationship between the two ladies, but. You know I was like Oh. This is how I'll be able to teach my kid about how to white lie and how that's okay. I was like I'm GonNa. Take that. Even. That seen as such a cool like big swing of like I. Don't know like just like that just shows. How seriously the like writers of this movie take her kid audience of like. They don't doubt that that will like. You know resonate with them. Yeah, I, mean I! Think like the whole way through with Harry like she is flawed so I go back and forth on like am I supposed to be like rooting for her this whole time? Where am I supposed to kind of I'm learning things as a thirty four year old woman from Harriet? But you know at the end of the day like with that sweet scene at the end, it's like sometimes you have to lie, but Chee Yourself. You must always tell the truth. Not set you know so I think there were really really great messages along the way for a nuggets for these kids to actually take even though. Our Year ten-year-old brains or like I. Want to be a spy. But like having a these nonconformist women at the helm of film. Were you go like? You know the underrepresented is represented in a way, yeah. I love her relationship with Golly I think they. Her relationship with Golly is so. Beautiful and cool, and I feel like a really good model of like how adults can treatment children not with kid gloves, and it can be like a very like that's just like how you should treat a kid generally. I love like that scene where. Golly like listens to Harriet. She cares about her interest. She supports what Harriet interested, and then also like. Does that cool thing where like it's like an adult takes you seriously, and then tries to expand your knowledge where she like brought her to see that movie about Mata Hari and she knows about Josephine Baker like all these female spies or I. Yeah I think. Golly is such a cool character and the fact that we also get a little look into her personal life and her interior life, because they feel like in in his movies that mostly hang out in the upper crust. Class, the only poor characters UC have no interior life that were made aware of, but it's like golly has a life and she has interest and she. She advocates for herself. When like Harry it's mom. You know like treats or like Shit. She's like no I'm Outta here I don't I? Don't need to put up with this I. Also Love The FEM fatal movie theater I was like okay. Because they went to some fatalities film festival. Right yeah yeah yeah and then they like saw. I think it was a real movie based on like Mata. Hari is adventure. and. These are like women that are like wrote a like a report on Mata Hari when I was a kid like Oh, spies, but It's yeah. Their relationship is great, and it made me cry. When colley left the first time. It's really. Maybe I'll travel like now. Like. I WANNA. Go with Golly. Other things that I like that. We've already touched on, but like I guess in terms of Harry. It's friend group, so you? You heard what Vanessa had to say, but the the fact that you know Harrods to friends are Janey. Who is a a woman of color in stem? It's so rare to see little black girls, doing science on screen or having an interest in science in any media that was really remarkable and also doesn't like. Make I feel like a big thing. There is also just like normal. And not making it this like big focal point. It's like Cheney like scientists is what she does. This is how she acts Blah Blah, and like it just is. She's also has like a fascination with very destructive science. Like I love the H. Bomb I on crowd, Manhattan Project Let's do it and we're like like. She's obsessed with laser beams that would disintegrate people. She'll work it out and therapy later. All these kids are in therapy hang. Yeah Janey is awesome and I was also. Kind of just based on other movies that we've covered in like tropes that we've noticed over the years I think I'm thinking of the craft where? Normally you know in in a movie where there's only one person of color, usually specifically a black character. You don't get to see their home, life or their home. Life is kind of excluded from the narrative, and that again is just like a not the case for Janey, and it's done in a very like. Just a normalized way of like you see her mom. Her Mom's like. Stop blowing things up and you're like all right cool there. We are You get a peek at the home and like. I guess to be not in the same amount of detail that we get for Harriet and for sport but you do get to see her home life her relationship with her mom, and it's you know it's like a meaningful part of the story and then I mean speaking of sport I also like that. The movie normalizes girls being friends with boys because I think a lot of media targeted to children would try to emphasize a divide between girls and boys, and like how ooh girls we're turning into like our crush narrative to yeah, but they're just. You know platonic friends. There's no indication at least in the movie that any of them have binny's. Crush on anyone else now. They're busy. Too busy being spies and you know making spores in their bedroom and stuff like that, and then with with sport. There is like you said Jamie Some attention is drawn to class. Because you know Harry it comes from a well to do family whereas spore to say the least your right. He's her dad Larry David like. How was a comedy writer having that how? Knows Yeah Sport comes from a poor family who his dad is also a writer, but you know there's a line where Harriet says. Something like my dad would call guys like your dad a starving artist. Get a real job. Yeah, why won't Harry IT'S DAD staff sport? If he's the show. Runner of Seinfeld give sports data job on the show now. If he's a shitty writer. Could be it well. He does sell something for ten thousand dollars at the end. So that's that's that's something I like this sweet, little senior. She climbs up and she's spying unsportsmanlike. She sees sport with his with his dad, and the running around like with you know having this like grand old time with chicken hat or whatever? That thing was yeah. But yeah. I think it also shows that like happiness comes in different forms, and and being fulfilled in a different way for children to kind of understand that like that. You don't need money to to have a happy family. was also like pretty pretty powerful I thought for sure I mean there's definitely an existing trope. Children from poor families or just poor families in general are. Able and often there's like this idea that like. Oh, parents of a poor family are abusive or negligent, or you know any. Really negative stereotypes and we don't see that at all with sports family. Well I will say just a a little bit that like sport I guess. I think that sports dad is kind of weirdly written in some moments of like he's not a good. He's not reading to be a good parent. Because export is the one who is doing the cooking and like buying groceries, because his dad is rest, Fahrenheit right his shady book so I feel like it is not like entire like. Yeah Fair point that yeah I I feel like I. Mean this. This movie in this story goes out of the way to give kids a lot of agency, but like sport is literally. Seems, to be running the House and he is you know ten or eleven, right? That's fair. I mean which does mean we see a little boy doing. Domestic chores which we never see the context of it though. Is I mean yeah, it seems like he has. A depressive parent, but then they were like well. Depressive episodes art so best not to deal with it so I don't know I was a little concerned for sport, even when things started working out for the family. good like are we does. Does sport still have to cook tonight like? Can this dad learn how to make a box of MAC and cheese for his son, please. I was just worried about is board. there. There is a an exchange of dialogue. That I thought was really powerful, and I think would have been especially powerful to see if I had remembered it as a child when I saw it, but you know Harry. It says something like I hate money and sport replies with. You'd like it a lot more if you didn't have any right. which is such a like you know Harry is coming from this really privilege place of course like she gets to hate money, because money doesn't ah. Lack of money isn't affecting her like she doesn't have to worry about that. She's never had. Yes, she's never had to really think about it. One of the things where I feel okay, so Harry I i. like that the that there is some class diversity in this movie as well and one of the I think cool things that Harriet does as a little rich New York. Kid is that she gets to go to therapy and I was kind of like. When the scene came up, I was like Oh. You know it's like ninety six. You don't really know which way this is. GonNa go because I feel like especially during this. This time there is still like significant stigma against any kind of therapy, and you would sometimes see therapy characters made out to be kind of like Kooky, and like kind of like snake, oil, salesmen and the like. How are you feeling and they don't actually understand. They're not actually listening, but I I. Really Love the direction that this movie takes it which is that it is helpful for Harry like and and the fact that she went to therapy, even though she herself was skeptical of it. Ends Up Improve I. Mean Ninety I mean like really improving her parents understanding of her more so than her understanding of herself, but I was happy to see that therapy and like mental health. Stuff was not made a joke of because I think that's an easy job that you kind of see a lot in movies in the. Nineties early two thousands true. Yeah. I think there's a long way to go with therapy stellan mental health, even though we're moving in a forward motion, but I I'm actually. We're watching Sopranos for first time right now where? I think they're doing a really wonderful job with the way in that world like you know handling an approaching the topic of mental health, but like they bring their son to their son's not paying attention. They think he has add. He's GonNa. Get tested. It's like I I WANNA see people go, who don't have major overlaying issues meeting that like you have to go to therapy. Just because of that like I. we always see kids being. Being brought to therapy because they're troubled rather than just being able to say like they're happy is okay for everybody true you know, and it's ultimately in this case. It seems like Harriet is big. Part of the reason to Harriet is being sent to therapy is because her parents are not doing the work they need to like it's. It's just as much of them like they should also be in therapy and I hope that they are. All the movie kind of frames at the Gauley leaving is the catalyst for trauma. Yeah, it's it's Harry. It's trauma and it's why she sort of lashes out, and because like what happens is that people find her notebook where she has said all these? You know perhaps truthful, but still mean things about all of her classmates. And, then they they retaliate against her 'cause. They're like you can't say this horrible stuff about us. That's mean and they kind of shun her, but she. Retaliates against them again for having been shunned really doubles down. Doubles down and it's like but like that's also a realistic thing that I think a lot of eleven year. Olds would do I honestly watching this I'm like. Any anytime. I see a movie where kids like kind of act out in a funny way, and like I wish I was I. Wish I was like a boulder? Child and I like recognize at the time then like this really isn't going to have that much of an effect on my life. I should just do some fucked up weird. She gets like. Their she really doubles down in a way. I would not have been brave enough to attempt as as an eleven year old. It's inspiring. Because, I think a maybe a movie that had a lesser. Children's behavior and psychology would just have it so that her book got found all of her. You know mean notes were revealed, and then she would just be like. Oh, my Gosh! I'm so sorry. Everyone better now, but like no. It spirals out of control and I could totally see myself like me I don't think I ever did anything quite like that. But like you know when you're a kid, and you don't know how to hold yourself accountable for any misdeeds you did. You're going to keep lashing out because you just don't know how else to process anything. I had a really embarrassing like not. I mean not as it wasn't a mean thing, but when I was in fifth grade I I left an open document at the computer lab. Saying that I was like trying to. I don't know and she might. Teacher was Mister Brewster and I typed the words Mister Brewster hot, and it became a thing that was you know it was not an easy time to have been the girl that type Mister Brewster high. because. I meant it as a question. Not as a statement, not one would believe me. I met Mister. Brewster high. But the punctuation wasn't there so it and and I just doubled down in saying that it was a question and not a statement, which made the whole thing worse and being a child is a full full fledged nightmare. It's traumatic dramatic. You really. I think about it all even thinking about it now just still puts a pit in my stomach like, don't you? Dan should have just pressed backs. It have been so easy. That's basically the plot of love Simon by the way I. It's actually based on me and Mr Bruce Restore. The they licensed it from us well incredible. Yeah, let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back for more discussion. Working from. Conference calls. On me, a John with everything we have going on right now. It's never been more important to get to sleep. We need while we sleep is a natural immune booster and only sleep number three sixty smart beds senses. Your movements automatically adjust your comfort and support on both sides your sleep number setting so all those other things we're doing to stay healthy and happy well. They'll work better to. And now during the lowest prices of the season, the queen's sleep number three sixty four smart bet is only twelve ninety nine save four hundred dollars, only for a limited time to learn more. GO TO SLEEPNUMBER DOT COM. He would go. There's a DJ Vlad. Now would like to check out the VLAD TV podcast since two thousand eight Vlad TV has been giving hard hitting no-holds-barred interviews with some of the biggest rappers, singers, actors, professional athletes, former criminals and everyone in between. We've interviewed celebrities like the baby. Cardi B. me goes little baby DOJ cat Omar Ya WWe champion Marquette, twenty-one Savage Warren South. DC young fly fat Joe Daddy trae whole and Charlemagne and many many more. We're regular guests like rap legend Busey Media Titan mechanic. Comedy Legend d.l Hughley an NBA champion John South. We're the only ones brave enough to ask a question that everyone else's too scared. Ask and when we interview someone, it becomes your biggest interview F, so listen to the Vlad TV podcast on iheartradio, APP, apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back. There are some is as well as this movie does at exploring the intricacies of what it's like to be an eleven year, old girl with abundant resources and Parents who don't seem to be able to keep track of where their daughter is most of the time because she's off doing spice stuff and a New, York version of New York that is very safe, very safe and quite white. which brings me to some of the issues that the movie has so one of? Her spy targets is the Hong Phat family. And she says something like Oh. They have a son Frankie. He's cool American style. And then the parents are cool Chinese style, and then she makes a comment about how the parents would rather have frankie working in the store, selling milk, and bread and lizards look so. It's this joke made at the expense of the immigrant family like ooh, this thing they do. That's unfamiliar to me. It must be gross or it's weird. It's other does not h well. especially, because it's like there's no I mean. That's the end of. There's no commentary like it's just like there's so many things, and it sucks. Because they I I wanted to believe better of this movie of there's so many things in this movie that Harry is wrong about, and then she learns that she's. and. Get some perspective on it, and you would think that this would be a great opportunity for you to know. You're like a rich little white girl. You don't know what you're talking about. You're right, but it just it. It never comes for this. Storyline no, it doesn't unfortunately not as not. I was also kind of bummed that I, don't even she? They they give this character name, but Marion's I. Guess like side Kick. Yes, her name is Rachel Yeah. I don't love how that character is treated as one of the only like non white students that we get to know and that she's kind of like relegated to this sidekick role. Yeah, and I also I mean Marion's character in general I. Don't know I. Guess I don't know how I and. Weird class thing happen here because we've got sport, who is very clearly from a low income family? We've got Harriet. who is rich, but then Marian is even richer, and so she's the villain. Right and like I don't know I know that like rich people technically have feelings. We're supposed to like really care about it, but it was just that whole storyline. I was just like what is this like what? No one of it's just like a rich girl being mean to another rich girl, and then like I should have thought more about the richer girls and your dislike. Read care about any of this is it's like the demonizing extra extreme excessive wealth in Marian? Because they like have her stay. These really goofy things like Oh horseback riding. If you can afford, it is a super fun activity. And then her idea for like a fun game that all the children can play is let's role play buying a Volvo you'll pretend to be the rich couple, and you'll pretend to be the car salesman and everyone's like Bhutto your idiot. Kinda hates her like they lock day, but then Harry. You're also rich. Like what do you like she? I guess slightly less rich than Marian and so Harry. It's like cool by everyone else I don't like. I ended up just kind of shrugging. Because I'm just like I, don't. I guess that I made to an extent where supposed to like just be like we love Harriet. No matter what, but it's like yeah. Harry like check yourself a little bit here. You're like you're in your three percent or and Marion's a one percenter. What's The fucking? One relax also during that scene. Where like all the children are pitching games that they might play? Someone says something and then Harry. It says no, that's our word. She says the word. which again a very nineties thing to do even very like thousand. To some degree, two thousand ten's thing to like that word was being used very casually. It's still kicked around to this day. Right infinite frustration That was. I like jump to. Know there are nineteen ninety-six. How did you get? How'd you get in here? Can we talk about the queer reading of this story? Please so I was doing I have been known to do a little context. Corner myself every once in a while. not to step on your toes. Jamie I, know I'm so sorry. Don't worry, don't worry. But I was doing some reading and full disclosure I. Have Not read the book that this is adopted from. It was banned. It was we were. To it was. So the author Louise Fitzhugh was a queer woman. The book has a pretty substantial queer following the way and I think it has a lot to do with the way Harry. It was described in the book and just various actions and behaviors of hers throughout the story I wanted to read an excerpt from an article that I found from the Guardian entitled Harriet. The spy helped me come to terms with my queer identity who by Cat Patrick quote. Harry, the spy blurred the lines between right and wrong in a way that liberated my nine year old brain as a kid who already felt left out by the mechanisms of femininity that everyone around me seemed to adopt with ease. Harry it was the Blue Denim baby butch. I needed among the endless bothering narratives back then I didn't have the words for what I felt fizzing through my inside and even. Even now fifteen years after coming out, I'm only just learning to feel comfortable with how I present non Binary Butch end quote. I recommend reading this entire Article because the the writer goes on to offer a queer reading on Harriet spy route the idea of having to tell you no little white lies to survive but also remaining true to yourself, all of these themes that are explored. Listeners let us know how the movie resonated with you and the book. If you've read it if you could get your hands on one if you can even get your hands on. As far as the movie and we're, we always like to know more about what our. Thinking and what you're redes-, but I think like a a strength of the movie is that it doesn't force heterosexuality on its child characters like they're just being kids. There aren't like those contracts aren't there's no external pressure for that really coming from any direction, which is very I, didn't really I mean I didn't I was like so refreshed by it then I'm like. Wow, this really does happen in every other kids Mufi. Is it. It makes create so much room in the story for. Interpretation and just doing other things by by not taking up too much real estate with like boy girl crushes, which is also just boring and bad writing. Use. I have some context. Steph on the production of please. Yes, this movie there I. Mean I pretty much love all of it. So, this was directed by a woman, pretty young woman as well I think she was like twenty eight or twenty. Nine Ritchie directed the movie. It was her first big production. Her name's Bronwyn Hughes and everything I've read about her. Love she still is directing mostly like Prestige TV now. She directed a better call Saul episode this year like she's out here, but this was her first movie and. I just look really interested in how she was able to direct kids in a way. That feels so organic, because Caitlin and I have like joked around before like the way that some child actors directed, it just does them no favours and the way that some trial characters are written, does no favours, but like Harriet. The spy feels like this big out liar and so. I wanted to learn more about her direction style and everything i. read about her was that they were just like she just had like the highest energy, and she was like dancing with the kids all day and so. Takes. What happened right after like Michelle Trachtenberg was like dancing around and then round when he is like okay now go and Dat would like. Bring the energy into the scene, so here's a quote from Michelle Trachtenberg about it. She says I. Don't remember her. Not Dancing on set and music was always playing. It was really cool, and in terms of performance art was pretty ahead of her time. It was also a great way to direct children, and keep things alive, and so I. I just I don't know I ended up finding a director that I really WanNa. See like more of her work just based off of an even like the pacing of it. It has such a cool like jazzy kind of pacing and some of the shots. You're like Oh. This is Kinda like art school for kids movie I. Like it right totally. Yeah, that just the colors and like the tone of the whole thing is like it's like a little quirky, but yet still like a little gritty at the same time like New, York. Grit to it and I agree I just wanted to know more about her because I thought she did a fabulous job, and it's really hard to direct kids I. Mean Yeah, I'll tell you like when I was a kid, they would always just like there would be really good directors in really better. and I recently had to direct a child and he's a bit younger, so that was even harder, but like it's. It's A. It's a mighty task to take on. Yeah, and she just like kills it and. And you have to imagine that. Having a female director on this movie made a big difference, too, and just like. How do we see the kids? And so there's also to credited writers on this movie. One is a man named Douglas Petri who has done a ton of mostly TV writing, but on shows with a pretty good reputation for representing women you. He was like a staff writer on Buffy the vampire slayer forever you wrote on. Angel he's written a lot of well regarded female comic Book Characters Ownership Comic. Books don't ask me. And then the other writer is Theresa Reback who is famous for? She's like a legendary female mystery writer, and is known for Writing Lake mysteries that have like a feminist character at the center, so it seems like just really brought together a really solid team of majority women to make this happen, and it's. It feels like a great example of like. A great product that you can get if you just kind of get some. At least some of the right people in the room I wonder how passionate they were in finding the director and finding Bronwyn like how passionate they were about finding a female director for this film because I think it could have been completely different film without a female director. And a perfume perspective, and like you know nowadays there it's it's a requirement for a lot of films and so I. I would just be curious in that time. You know how much of a stickler they were forward or if she was just the right. Who is pushing for it? It's interesting because I feel like especially in this era like nickelodeon. has kind of a better track record with how it's females, characters are written and treated then it. You know if if you're going pound for pound against Disney, which you know, their history was women s maybe not so great I was also kind of surprised that this movie was not particularly well reviewed. It was not at the time and and a lot of this I will chalk up to especially in the nineties older white. White male film critics being like fun and see any. This wasn't for me and then just kind of being like Sia, but yeah, it seems like it was a movie that was misjudged in its time as well which is which was just I, guess kind of strange to me because I've truly never heard a bad word about this movie before going back to the original reviews, and I disagree with all of them like. Like. She didn't even solve a mystery I'm pissed. I had that same at my bad. Your. Double Candle kids. But in any case, it's definitely I think a movie that's reputation has really liked solidified over time. Apparently, it didn't in in the moment I mean it has to be a bit of a cult following right a little man and I i. think totally those weird. You know that art feel that I think I. Think you mentioned earlier. It's like some people get it. And some people don't and the tone of this is really quirky. a lot of off kilter and I feel like if you're if you know, you're not the blockbuster that they're looking for or the the mainstream. It's not going to be well reviewed, but. Other people will again yeah I feel like the the core. The intended audience of this movie got it, and like it wasn't written for old guys, and so they perhaps did not get it. I also wanted to mention just because I'm like this is interesting. Theresa Reebok she wrote the screenplay for the Halle. Berry Cat woman movie Oh. My medics masterpiece CATTLEMAN, yeah! Yeah so you know Peop-, people contain multitudes they sure do. I wanted to touch a little bit on some of the. In the movie one I appreciate that the teacher was not villain is the way that a lot of kids movies will villain is educators sure she was made to seem? A little oblivious perhaps, but she wasn't this like mean authoritarian teacher, the way that a lot of again kid movies will be like teacher. Bad I understand. The kids perspective perspective like sure teachers or sometimes they're hot. Something to consider hot question, mark or not question mark. At the teacher also magically disappears after cleaning up Harriet with the blue paint, which also gave me a slight panic attack like everybody. Get off her. She just disappears. Let's clean here it up and then. Married like spill and then. I wish the discipline. those just a quick little thing I had and then another quick very quick moment in the movie, but I appreciated this. It's after Harriet has tormented her entire class and cut their hair off and strong bra up on the flagpole, and like all this stuff she is at home and her parents come in, and they are trying to figure out like what's happening. Why did she do this? And Her dad comes in? And he says something like I used to mess around in school to US trying to make light of the situation, and then her mom says something like you always do that. You always make jokes than I have to come in here and be grumpy one. One which like it's not what this movie is about at all. It's like this tiny little moment that you would probably blinken. You Miss it kind of thing, but I just appreciate that small attempts to show that it is any like mother Father Household. It is often the mother who has to bear the kind of emotional burden, and the emotional labor of like being the disciplinarian, whereas the dad gets to be like who goofy and fun I. Don't Know How to discipline kids. It's not my job I think. We talked about this a lot in the MRS doubtfire episode IV and that's also true of IBM. Every family is show I remember watching as a kid was like. You know shrew, mom, that occasionally has a scene that's like, but I love you, and then like Goofy Dad, right? It's cannon it may I remember. My Dad used to get really mad about it. I mean it's not really a fair of like. But he was just like. Not all DADS are stupid. I'm like. How does it feel to be negatively portrayed in media, Dad? I like just the Mon- acknowledging that that frustration of like you get to be the fun one and I have to come in here and be the grumpy one like I found that just to be a little a little sliver of something. I enjoyed to sit now. Get just leave it there. And and I liked that you do get a scene with Harriet and her mother. Where like Harry I mean we, we as an audience already know that Harriet parents are very flawed parents that don't really understand their child because they haven't time with her and listen to her like if they had spent the same kind of time that golly had, they would have a better understanding of her. And I I like I mean it's just like another shade of Grey that this movie shows you like how kids relate to people in their lives that I thought was really nice of like her mother, admitting that she was wrong, and she doesn't understand her daughter, and that like that can be true, and she can be trying to better, and you hope that move moving forward that like I don't know it's. It's nice. That Harry got because Harriet. Harriet does does like deserve an apology from for how her parents treat her, and it would have been nice for it to come from both parents, but I did lake. That mother daughter scene. Where you, even though. I'm like this mom needs to get it together. You're also like well, okay. She acknowledges that she has worked to do and that both parents have worked to do. And I thought it was handled. You know pretty well. Yeah, for sure. There's another. One less thing is the, and this is like hardly anything, but there are two different scenes in the movie where the kids are watching like. You're developing. Body's going through puberty. This is how. All really old videos right so. This? From the sixties or something. And then like the fact that Harriet. Pretty much body shames one of her classmates for like having grown boobs over the summer is again not something that we admire or recommend children do, but it is again just such A. A realistic thing because like you know as young kids that our bodies are changing. They're going through puberty. They don't know what's happening they if they see someone else going through puberty I think it's weird and gross like again. Every basically everything that Harry does in her thoughts well, some of them are pretty violent and I. Don't condone at all like the like. The kid with purple socks should hang himself that other girl someone should just. Just kick her like those obviously are not okay, and there's no justification for them, but other ones I'm just like. Of course you think that because it's such an eleven year, old understanding of bodies or of like socio economic class, and you know just different things like that, so while some of them were quite troubling, violent other ones Mike I. Mean I don't like that. She said this, but I understand because it's super realistic yeah yeah. It's it's. Complicated, it is now. With Harriet, the spy, you know why that just speaks to like. It's so refreshing to see like a complicated depiction of a little girl of any female care I. Mean We? Yeah characters are so often written to be so flat and stock and stereotypical that it is nice to i. mean we talk about like when should be allowed to be mediocre in movies? Women should be allowed to like. Fuck up and make mistakes and like that's really most of what Harriet is doing is like. Having to learn major life lessons having to apologize for very misdeeds, things like that and yeah I think it's. It's actually very refreshing to get to see like a little girl. Go through that ARC. It's true. This movie is fun could have to the NICKELODEON for 'cause they're saying like age. Nine is like the common sentence age, and like most would be too pure. You know and not allow any of these issues to really come to the forefront of the phone, so yeah I really yeah. It's like it's very hard to imagine a d like Disney and nineteen ninety-six, taking a female protagonists. This seriously so I'm glad that. Hurry, it was therefore. Does anyone else have any final thoughts about the film. I think so. The last thing I want to say is feminist icon. Agatha! K Plumber Aka. Earth a kits character. Agatha Chris. I was like. Is this an Agatha Christie reference? What is Earth Kid doing in there I like I? Don't know but one of the few lines of dialogue she has is. She's talking on the phone with someone and she says I have the secret of life. You simply crawl into your bed and never ever leave it again. Which in the quarantine? been doing so, thank you British or for that. Agatha K I'm just like I feel like it's an especially because it's like a female mystery story like this has to be some weird Agatha Christie. At least reference I guess. Yeah. MAYBE NO SHRUG Does Harriet the spy past the Bechtel tests by any chance. Yeah all the time. Lots of different combinations of characters Harry talks to Golly to Janey to her mom to her teacher to Marianne. Yeah lots of different combinations of characters and they're. They're not talking about boys sermon hardly ever, and there's also non Harriet Kambas to like rainy talks to her mom. Marian talks to Rachel and there's yeah. There's a lot of good this this. Handle a pass the test, but -solutely. Let's rated on her nipples scales zero to five nipples based on its representation of women. I would I would give this I think like a four I'll take some points off for the very nine nineties punching down humor in language that we see here and there especially because I read that in the book, it's an Italian family that she spies on its the disantle family so the station deliberately changed it to the Hong Phat family and then made Harry. It'd be kind of racist, so you know. You don't get a nipple for that. You don't get for that also just like I mean even though the movie does address class, it is still like and here's this. You know wealthy white girl and her story. Because that's the story that you know, we feel needs to be told more than other people's stories, so you know not not a perfect film or story, but I I do think. Think that much closer than most movies we've covered foreshore. I'll give it. Four apples I'll give one to Janey okay. I'll give one to johnny the character anal- give one to Vanessa Chester thanks again so much to her for chatting with us and giving her input I will give one to your voice. Jonah, that is present in the playground or the you know the various scenes. And I'll give one to Harriet. No, actually I'm GONNA give my fourth nipple to Earth, a kit and her just wanting to stay in bed for the rest of her life can relate. Yeah I'M GONNA. Go with for Nipples on this too I think for nineteen. ninety-six movie does very well, but still has as we discussed it has its shortcomings has its dated nece, and it has as most children's media, a fixation on rich white family above any other family, it loses the nipple for that, but in terms of creating a fleshed out not hyper sexualize female character that makes mistakes that learned from those mistakes, maybe not as mistake. Many mistakes as we would have liked, but more than I expected to be honest. Yeah dislike has a full life in is allowed to fuck up and learn and have interests that are not hyper feminine, and and Eat Menes sandwiches and shit like it's all great and and I do general. I like the small class commentary I mean you know probably could go a little further, but I it's a great movie. I really like it I like it. It super. Hold up in in most ways so I'll give one nipple to Jainism Nisshin Voice. Give one nipple to Michelle. Trachtenberg one to Vanessa Chester and I'll I'll complete earth kits set. Give her give her another net incredible. Jenna. What about you yeah I would give it four nipples. One Nipple definitely does not get given any any attention. Yeah for you know the little. A I don't WanNa. Call them slip ups. Shortcomings with the. US Socioeconomic class and this young girl of really who has quite a lot of privilege, but I do I do want to say like. I give the four four. The representation for kids and females to be specific young girls who like Harriet have. Sort of found their purpose in the world in a way like as a writer, and is just trying to figure out where it fits in the world, and to have a kid who has purpose I think that's why we you know. As kids related to her I at least I did as a young girl who had a purpose to work. I wanted her purpose in that moment in time, and I think that was not an still is not represented enough in media, so I definitely give. The nipples to rosy to Jake. Cameron to Michelle and to Vanessa. Jenner. Thank you so much for being here for joining us today last. Thanks for having me so much fun to. Break down the at the spot I'm this. Louis but would you like to plug? Yeah, I'm I'm mainly on instagram at Josh quits, and my last name is spelled. US H. W. I t. z.. Yeah, we have. I have a podcast called Shonan Glee podcast. You can find out where refined podcasts on spotify apple, podcasts, and podcast one and yeah, that's that's pretty much some I didn't mention before, but I am Glee Stan. Scene! Of Glee and I love it. All, of it, I think you were the one how many viewers seasons where they're six. Oh, yeah, I lied. I think I only made it to five. I'm so sorry, so you were. Pretty good. No No, no, that's. Pretty good, thank you. It started long before that. That's awesome. Thank you so much. I you can fall. You can follow us on twitter and Instagram at Bechtel cast, you can subscribe to our Patron Aka. Matron by going to Patriot dot com slash Bechtel cast, and subscribing for five dollars a month. Get two bonus episodes, the good deals our entire back catalogue. Bonus episodes hefty. and. We can get our merch at public dot. com slash the Bechtel cast if you feel like stuff. And thank you for listening Oh and thanks again to Vanessa Chester for taking the time to talk to us. Be Sure to follow her on social media and go back and listen to our episode with her on the movie book smart. She's the best and with that. In spy with social distancing. That's kind of what spying is. It's true is just truth observing people at a distance so buying is hot right now here. We all social distancing. That's right. ALL RIGHT BYE! Bye Bye! twenty-seven seven club is a podcast about famous musicians who died prematurely in sometimes mysteriously at the age twenty seven. This podcast is hosted by me. Jake, Brennan Creator and host of the award winning music and true crime podcast disgrace, graceland season, two features, twelve episodes of life and death of Jim Morrison of the doors, and the twenty seven club contains adult content and explicit linkage. You can listen to the twenty seven club on the iheartradio, APP, apple, podcasts or every getting podcasts. Are you a fan of professional wrestling. 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