Rewind 1921 - The Safe Negro Podcast Show (LoveCraft Country Review S01 E09)

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Blackout by. Your now nothing to. Be Same. Gas. Fooled. And welcome back winthrop houseguests to another incredible episode of this safe Negro. PODCAST show featuring one of your host myself Tatyana King. Aka, hippolyte him up also joined by the very merch out. A blog. Excellent and also coming in hot with a bang we have. coyotes. Patterson Heights Aka bitten avoidable banging today. Lou Yes invulnerable black woman I like you're begging though love it curls on fleet Thank you all for joining us as usual. We are here to discuss review analyze dissect HBO's lovecraft country. Today we are talking about rewind nineteen, twenty, one episode nine of the show. Is directed by Jeffrey Natural off Tele Play by Michel Green. Jonathan is kid and Sonya Winston Abington and for your trigger warnings today are racial slurs homophobic slow slur excuse me. Gordon blood and most importantly the overall killing death of terrorism against and brutality against black people I say that with big emphasis because this was a very difficult episode for me to get through I was generally angry throughout most of the episode I know other people will feel differently to. Degrees as they watch at the same time it was it was a lot of triggers and a lot of violence against black people because it's centered around the Tulsa massacre but we're GONNA get into this shortly. I I just want to congratulate Dj Ben, How mean for twenty two term blog off the blacks shogun. It was actually picked up by the official lovecraft country social media account. So make sure y'all hit up. Hbo Lovecraft Hbo and let them Know How dopey are big him up at DJ bottoming. Let them know who created that and also big other Dj but I mean for the Rockstar Remix of the blog off seen that seen the blow off came through and wreck shop gave els to all the cops in front of the winthrop house Dj about on mean being DJ and being. So musically inclined he remixed that scene with Rockstar from any R. D and it was chefs casse. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I really really love seeing a reaction to it. I always love that song and anytime there are cop cars being burnt I always think of it. It is always the first thing I. think whenever I see a cop car cop standing rent you can't be me I'm a Rockstar. Another. Cop Car? That song. Yes so yeah incredible. Are All right. So for the Before scientific. Before we get into, like you said, I am merch out right now the fuck out. So we do on a shout out bounce comics who created this you know as you see behind me, the get the fuck up. Now we is a great warrior design which we've actually sent some to sue Faye is I said Hey. Super Pai Bradshaw who will be getting their very own and as you see, I got the shirt I got to cook. You know you can get all this on T. The dot com slash for all nerds. You can pick yourself up a phone case. You know really beautiful goes on and on I got no books I got all kinds of stuff but that's how. To retry now but you know you see to get the fuck up now we as a great warriors, the designed t public dot com slash for all nervous you know all kinds of other stuff popping over there but make sure you over there and get you some and thank you for this creation because I'm loving it. As you see personally I copped eight different variations. Any of the pillow don't you got a pillow the way you'll see that necessarily trust you see. You will see me sleeping on a pillow is we wrap up our ten episodes of this show excellent because we can use a break child. Let's into the basic plot of this episode Rewind Nineteen Twenty One. Okay. It's black to the future this week as Letty Montross and atticus travel back to Tulsa Oklahoma nineteen twenty one in order to find the book of names. Ruby makes an ill advised decision Christina hasn't learned hadn't seen to learn anything from last week's the buckle and hippolyte a once again proves that black women are the center of the universe. And less move forward into the themes of the show. The first that we have here is a recurring theme in kind of a double entendre but the idea of returning to the source repeating time even repeating history and you also see there right in the title of the show Rewind twenty-one the fact that this all centers around the gang going back words in time going back to the source of. A lot of. Trauma brutality, but also back to a place where they can potentially Save D. and that's Tulsa during the Tulsa, massacre. Today of the Tulsa massacre which is wild. They are going back as we know because they need to retrieve the book of names in order to to heal and please keep me both of you. Please keep me honest getting the book of names for what? Because the book names contain some magic of their family and spells, etc, and probably some other stuff, and so they hope that they can use it to cure or do something for. To get I mean yes. also display. That wasn't explained bizarre. Minded to be. The story was finally getting. They're finally finding a plot device to get to the book we kept seeing hinted at with no water running away with it was like. I mean at this, but do we have to go through like an actual black trauma? Air. To. Get to this book. I could they went back another time now the reason why? Back. To happen and I get. What sucks I remember like you know how we actually this is what the family has the books they have the Leger. And Leger was put into a bank ball I get that and then I can see the also like this hosted episode. That corresponds with Montross his journey in the book whenever yeses been yet or whatever, and he goes he relives his memory in in a way. so I see what we're trying to do, but I also was like, but this is how he had to do it. Explain it away a little bit because. They have no totem if you will get back to that particular to get back to the family except for the picture that machos has in his pocket. And that picture is if I'm not mistaken, they explained that picture it might have been I don't know if it was taking the day. I. Don't know when that picture was taken, but it was specifically for that point in time and Tulsa. For the problem was it taking? But he got his ass beat that day I. Don't think that they. You Know I. I've my mind made the assumption now that we're thinking about it was that photo taken the 'cause the way my mind assumed was and what I believed. I heard was that photo was from that day and they needed as I mentioned that that a totem or a? I don't have another better word for it but some type of item that can help hippolyte of focusing on a certain point in time she doesn't have coordinates she doesn't have all this other stuff. So she needs something and the best thing she has it has sentimental value and something she can focus on mentally because she's controlling this whole process is that photo he has an artifact, an artifact or something right? Akaka photo was really just well shot just to quickly show you about the family or about the father and his sons because he has his arms wrapped around George and Montrose standing behind the two of them and you know right there shows you everything about how father feels about his two sons the family dynamics, they ever mission bob like their Mama Alive at this point. The crickets that occurred to. Like Be On the front lawn I was like bill even have a command ran out or Alcohol so Is, Montross and and George like Disney princesses they don't have a mom. Guess not so. That being said another. Saints the enemy still thinking about it. Today rematch their mom at any point. Whenever they win that way he was over at their persons house who's over at doors house and they say, oh, which Wi bay was talking about where the kids wearing how to go out and then also is he is their kind of like key in that like he's out here like in a time line, we don't see that die. We're going to return to this. And I'm like. Are we about to get clowned Bhai our audience you know? All the my chore. Someone. Joe The Georgia somebody at some point in the eight nine episodes we've been in now have mentioned their mom. Maybe the MOM died earlier in the book is one thing we understand. But in the show is different time on the situations going on if there was a con mentioned anywhere Y'all or listening to tell us no no. No? No. Okay. We're buckling. I do remember everything now his mom is atticus mentions his mom his mom has died earlier. This mom is the magic and family, but it's that mysterious death and. My Mom. Talking about Montrose. Georgia's mom. Where's homegirl? That's what I'm saying? Okay we gotta move on Okay this is the bookmark in your mind right. Just back to this theme of returning to the source repeating time reversal. If you will rewinding this spell that Christina Cass, which is I guess is supposed to be a temporary reversal of her demonic possession. You see literally it reveal first of all her arm was completely black ravaged out and the black. Vines or whatever you want to call it the veins will are stem going towards her face and it's literally converting her body. She's turning into a topsy demon which was incredible because. She just had the bad aren't in the next scene she was topsy and I was like Oh shit. Oh, my God. So reminded me of this. What is that? I'm GonNa, get you sucker but I'm GonNa have to make that. Reverend's online. So people will see it now. But yeah. Wow. Okay. In, and so in that like you see this happening she d is turning. And back spelled the Christina cast reverts Diana's bodies Baxter's original state. Her. Then, we don't need this right now. During this thing you see flies and maggots start to appear the magazine arm flies are buzzing around for for those that don't know maggots are the larva flies. That's when they're babies. So you actually see the reversal of the life cycle happening and they appear on and around the still spell as being cast. And then they turned flies correct. It's the same thing you saw in the last episode when he first task curse and you see it on the ground, you see maggots up here and then they turned into flaws and. Now another thing flies represents particularly in biblical terms and other places five represent the devil evil demonic. So and be as about one of the names of the double literally means Lord of the flies. So every time these white people cast spells on Mike, the devil is in the room because ain't no way. Ain't no way there is there is there are they say light magic or white magic going on or or this white? It's funny because it's kind of a a reversal of the term white magic typically like when you when you watch or read fantasy stories, white magic is supposed to be that healing nice magic and the magic it's good quote unquote the white magic and this motherfucker. I mean that's the reality of it. You know like we we were talking about dark elves and the blog off last week. It's the same thing with black magic and white magic wiser said that you know wired about black hats bad look like this one. It's so ridiculous that we take it all his jokes, but it's all for reason for it. There's not all that stuff is put in place. For reason, it's all a system that keeps reinforcing the idea that black is bad. Absolutely. For. Example. So we're literally doesn't I ten minutes okay. Another area where we talking about like the re rewinding repetition time, there were turning back to the winthrop observatory, and this is one of the first things I mean one of the many things the one of the first things I started pissing me off about since. They return to the scene of of the observatory where they have that multi-dimensional machine as as hippolyte notes. This is what bothers me? And perhaps might be slightly different everyone watches but it's minute about minute fifty to forty something like that in this episode where the title Card says. That, they are in Kentucky and then the next scene literally the next slide you see them at the observatory however. In the Episode Hippolyte of found the Observatory in Mayfield Kansas. What the fuck is going on how is the observatory in one whole state? And now in one in one episode and now complete somewhere else in the Knicks, is the observatory fucking moving yes. How? We're talking about before the show we think it's just a reference to a lot of different science fiction and fantasy stories. Once again, like the dark tower and Stephen King series the dark tower moves out the world's the lost, and in the TV show lost the island moves around Porsche mentioned a doctor WHO's The Tartus Yep Moose in through space and time, but also like. An fiction there's I'm. Thinking just had it with me. It's really good to. Go, get it. I'm just I'm just going to just reiterate again I thought I was fucking tripping. I went back to all of our notes. I went back to notre other places and articles. I. Scrub through both episodes and the observatory is indeed in two different places. Yeah, the one is which conviction Terry, pressure there's discworld Literally, the whole world is on top of the back of a turtle the. That's the whole setup and this world is reference in dark tower because they have he has a giant turtle that's One of the I can't remember what they are but these great beasts in the giant turtles referencing dips were under always moving as well. and. Also, in the reversal rewind being we see the cops again trying to restore the Catherine I got fucked up by the. They're attaching once again, new body parts of more random black people that they cannot kidnapped, but it doesn't work this time Humpty dumpty. Gross they tried the bill. Boy was working to stop no, all the courses and all the king's men no, and also in continuation of that theme Christina mentioned that every time she changes back from William. She's William Most of the days when he turns back to herself every time she chanukah million is like Williams dying all over again. And she wishes she can see that happen to the captain a thousand times over, but she'll she'll be happy watching him die and she and I thought that was the most colds move her watching the captaincy she waited for the light to out his I. Yeah and I had to watch the scene a few times to figure out exactly what was going on or what my idea what's on is at least and it seems that that totem that Ruby plays into desk is used as a regeneration spell, but it's used to curse the captain instead with a regeneration that keeps regenerating his wounds. No matter. How many times the other. dudes perform this spell on him of Humpty dumpty in his ass for black people. It doesn't work because the wounds from blog officers are regenerating no matter what and she wishes that she could do something where he would regenerate over and over again. But I, think that's the case. He I think she died she said I'll just settle for this one time and watch you. But once again, I feel like Christina does not learn anything or how know because last episode you know she had that emit till thing which still what? No motherfucking sense and this episode she sits there. And watches him die and gives him this look into is like Oh. That was quite right. You know. Was that fun. No wasn't all that but it's like a man much I love. The trust levels just like? How could you have trust Christina from jump I've never had trust her period I still don't into words of Ruby you. Thank You know. Here has earned my trust never go. There we go. Preach. Now Okay Not The one. I wish they had a dog. You know it's like you could trust the dog. The logoff. Yes. The blog off I'm definitely putting. Putting my whole faith in that dog. Awesome. Like as Different horror montages. Sifi montages like that kind of like the sheriff sort of becomes Frankenstein's monster away you Christina's Frankenstein like putting in that spell and kind of like Nestle up all. Live. Re Re see kind of. I would say both transformation but also a rewind things we've seen before particularly hippolyte a returning to embody in the flesh basically Harithi blue. At the point where advocates is is just coaching her almost to to hold on and and keep the portal open when hippolyte is putting going beyond her limits at this point she plus ultra. Arm and he just you know he's there hippolyte. `As Plus Ultra Light, it is limit break. He's. The guy like never eliminate giving birth and Mike Or whoever is giving birth? Gender never they're giving birth and whoever the person is with, that has been there like. Do it. I. Know You're dying but you can do it pretty been out. We. Know though. So he's quoting are and. At that point, I don't know if it's just the power and electricity and just all of it all of creation going through flowing through hippolyte as such a rate that she's arts floating in mid air and she sees foaming at the mouth and her hair turns like this electric blue collar which looks exactly like the character she embodied when she was in that review blue dimension. And she and in that in essence, you can say she, she's she's always been Arabia blue. That's what Diana modeled this character after about after her mother and a the Blue Saves Diana in different ways and in reality he the lighter as Diana's mother she's Becoming Arabia again to save her daughter. And it's something like you. I noticed something starting to sets you later on it's like the Terminator. Thing. Where it's the predestine of it all. And she was always hippolyte of blue I mean it would. Not Fast Hashtag. We go yes it is not a term coined by Dj ben I mean ladies and Jemma put that put the claps clamps that up. All right. Thank you. Excellent. We. This is. The Terminator and and destiny and all this other stuff this this again, the part that upset me when I say I don't mean I'm angry I'm just upset because it's a lot of confusion is stuff happening and potential. Red Herrings we don't fucking now. Atticus the scene where atticus and modules are in the Alley and atticus at first he thinking he has a whole machos back from saving Montross is friend Thomas from getting killed by the White folks in the massacre. As they have this conversation. Essentially. Montrose narrates the whole thing as is happening and. Macho says at this point where the stranger rolled up with the bat and saved. US. and. He says that stranger says I gotcha kid. Atticus says that same line I gotcha kid simultaneously. And that's when things that happened there. Advocates realizes this happened in his dream episode one of Lovecraft Country of this show during atticus is dream when Jackie Robson literally shows up, beat the shit out of with the bat he says to advocate I. got you kid so advocates is realizing Oh shit that's my dream and also as they're sitting at so funny too because as they're sitting there watching this abacus like that was in my dream. So they sit there and continued watching what's happening but the kids are still getting beat up and nothing's happening. So advocates says, wait something's wrong and that's when he slowly realizes that the stranger is him. And I pretty much. I, think we all you know different people, guests that the stranger was going to be someone from the crew. You know people thought hip Elida it'd be hippolyte coming through but pretty much for a while that we are figuring and then once he started seeing evidence or ideas a time traveling show that it was going to be one of the crew and personally I just thought that scene was just so beautiful and so like I mean everything leading up to the conversation the that conversation was beautiful and the fact that they were able to display their emotions and cry and try to heal. Even though they're both as you say in a trash bag Olympics, still still running but also you know you're seeing wider in the trash bag on the bits. Of their trash. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There it is bad lady bad bad boy. You know it's not bad ladies not just for women. You know it's A. Catch all term you know But I love that scene right there and. When added Kaz steps up in the bat roles at his feet. You know it was just that moment reminded me like field of dreams and even a field of dreams isn't a time travel movie because has baseball and it you know nobody's didn't beat over the head is the yeah you know to bat being there and him we're having a moment where he's like Oh, I am that person you know like hippolyte I am I am stranger and comes through. I. And and I I loved it because of those reasons that you mentioned on I also still hated it because also. This is the part. So, if you're telling me Montreal's comes, they're already having a memory of the stranger. With the BAT. Now. We know that the stranger with the bat is Abacus does this mean that atticus already came into the past before to save? Kid Montrose. Because the bat was the bat was there because Machos border with him at he uses to smash the car window open to get the get the booze. Does this mean that this is them trying to fix thing in the past again has it happened already? Are we in Terminator? This means to me and this is something I meant to bring up the all before the episode starter but. Dropped a bomb on you is this a one season show GotTa. Be. They killed my uncle George like. A. Seeming to be because and this is my reason for it in his hurt my feelings one I've seen degreen talk about projects that she wants to do after this. They advertised as a mini series, and at this point, these tier does have grown in such powerful ways as. You say is a polite a God. Now there is just so stains happening where it's I don't see it, and also the problem with that is that hurts me because also feel like with watchmen where we never get to see a show where the black people have power. Tell everyone's yelling about Tortola turn blue in the water. Washington. And now we got hippolyte of and we're into media feels like a limited series job. Sorry. I just feel like this to be a nets episode in that's. is sign up on changed Sino hip, and Isla blue reminds me of deep sea dragon balls because blue the highest. Shit Talk. Most powerful. Yes. Version. We need to we need it from bounce nobody gonNA. Hit a lot of blue with the super sale here. Now. But but yeah so amassing. Because, it feels to me like a warning. It may hurt, but I also think it makes sense I. think we're also. It makes it listen hear me out. It makes sense because also if you look at at least the last few hits of HBO has had that hasn't been a pattern that of a miniseries and bringing it to where you get so engrossed and so attaches cash and then they ended and then you're screaming your this now you're stuck in limbo forever fan. Oh, I love that all can you do that and then we're sitting here doing fan fictions in our head you're sitting here analyzing on a podcast called the Safe Negroponte cash like you're sitting here. In your psyche and in your imagination, and that might be the overall goal to keep this sitting with you as an experience as opposed to an ongoing series where by the time. I don't know season seven you go yo this series fell off a cliff. Why? Hem. But but but I'm just saying And then just one more other reason why I think this case also is because if you look at our and you should subscribe to four owners on your favorite podcast platform because you would have been listening to the Matt Rough episode that we had about a month back or a month or so back where we interviewed him and he explained that low craft country historian like even though he was he was interested in making another book it was going to be completely different a different direction perhaps that conversation with. Like Fam- I feel you. Let's go somewhere else which makes me feel like maybe this is the ultimate side of me. Save me this is actually going to become an anthology series much like what we get with American stories in this is what love and she's going to become. I'm different. We're going to see George Friedman the younger have his journey and we'll see what that looks. That I like. You in the right of. This I wanNA say I. WanNa, see I wanna see the eighties version of low craft country. I. Want to see that. Means you hire us. Right here. Rounding, out this theme of rewinding and things like that Porsche. You had a very good point here about about the exploration of these personas. Can you talk about that? Yeah. So so in that kind of like Kurtz me and seeing how especially with these character How a lot of these things that you're mentioning as like. are also kind of like people having embraced or a kind of removing themselves from personas that from put on them. So advocates, for example, with Jackie Robinson such danger thing is because that's what Montrose believed him to be like because he believed there's a stranger that came and saved the day. That's who advocates took up the mantle to become and that one in. and for me that kind of like, Hey, partner I that's a big symbol in like one of the Harry Potter books is that there's a time loop that Harry. Reminding close where he thinks his father comes to save him but his father's dead and he realizes that like him being told the whole time. Oh, you look just like her father actually comes out to like him actually saving him. So in the Middle Ulster. Big. So this this moment reminded me a lot of that like in this atticus is becoming like this like big hotel figure and he's saving people that like his Yes. Complicating feelings about and then his father who he's literally used like he just owned his father and this is where Muesli saving them as children especially in big like. Massacre and this means much like black folk. So it's just a lot of over sons fair for hip Elida Herbie a aren't the a blue it's kids her daughter visualized her life. If it has, it would have been fantasy setting as she was able to go to school when you sign stuff she told. The about. So mantras in the trauma that he goes through that we see during the episode specifically when it comes to like what he's lived there until Saturday him. With relationship with his father. We see that he liked kind of excess that whatever the pursuit that his father's forcing onto him like is forcing him to keep his real self quelled not actually live at out he has decided like. In the original timeline of this loop, we see him actually deciding that he's going to accept that wishing away and the person that helps him realize like who he is and like. Through that. and. So we see a lot of like how much his trauma of like himself is also until his trauma from living through this massacre then like isn't that like about a black like you can't even take away liquor own personal journey from all of like actual like lives trauma that goes along with a like there's just no separating the two they informed the. Food absolutely. I think that's something that I'll. Hurt me especially and we'll get into this when I was doing the research for this episode. It just makes you feel like America expects you to destroy, go on living and go on doing everything that any white person I'll say does. While you're living with this generational trauma, we've been best been forced upon us and it just blows my mind. It's somewhat I. I guess what they say ignorance is bliss because the fact that we don't learn all of this and school makes it easier because if I've learned everything that I just learned just by doing a quick google searches. I. Probably would have rioted. Early, age because even I knew certain things that I didn't I knew about Tulsa. But I didn't know nearly as much learn like I said today and that's something else that we talked about last week but I just want to make this pointing real quick because I feel like there's a lot of people who reviewed his show and they are not doing the work and it's just so highly insulting on. So many levels because one when it comes to fantasy fiction sci fi we do so much work at so much research just in general like I spend hours on various Mickey's about various genres and everything just because of my interest and it's all fantasy. You know that's all just made up my while this is actual history incorporated into this show and people won't even Dude A. Minimum of time that it takes do the research just like you said, a couple Google searches just laid out for you in this episode, Montrose List lists names that you can just Google gives you list right there and people aren't doing that and then they're rating to shore review in the show and saying, oh, it's not. It's not is not that. But you're not doing the work that it tastes really understand what their shows doing while being in entertaining science fiction fantasy epic. You know that's what's really salt is not it it? It just blows my mind how much work we have to do in this country because not only is this show being entertaining like I said science fiction fantasy show it's also. Uncovering and showing people so much black history that is hidden from us. And it's flooring the TRAUMAS that are generated by this black history. And showing what that does to us as a people and show a why does that to us as a people and it's just so many levels that people are not appreciating and a show or movie like Indiana Jones files anything lost. One of my favorite of all time does not have to deal with on. You know basically like they could pay lip service to race Damon, Lindelof admit to that. As he has as he has and on episode four owners when we interviewed him. Checker. Nothing No. You know saying. We appreciate and again this just everyone who's been listening and supporting us. Thank you very much because you have already said he recognized that the work that gets put into this and you recognize that the deep nece that this particular show goes into, we talked about levels and everything being. Levels model levels and the lotus flower and all that stuff, and that leads us to the next theme of dreams and we mentioned it briefly already where atticus. Has that he says that's simultaneous phrase with Montrose he says. What I got you kid I gotcha kid and we realized that that that is reminiscent of atticus dream in episode one when this show I open and open up with a bang where it started within Attica stream where he was in the trenches fighting reveals to a wide shot of a World War of the worlds type of situation going on and all sorts of man is happening around him. What we come to realize what I've come to realize now is episode one is actually an amalgamation of premonitions which are generally vision of the future, and it really is a Maga mation of all the events that he and his family goes through throughout the series ever watching. So for example, things, I pointed out fighting in the trenches when he was in a Korean War the planes bombing that can also be war. But also in this episode, we see the planes bombing Tulsa the aliens. And monsters attacking that that thought of World War of the worlds you can approximate as an allegory for for white people attacking black people, and if you saw how it was with the monsters and and the aliens attacking the the ground troops, it was that it was a no contest hyper situation it they were the the aliens. Mosser's were just completely overcoming the people on the ground and that's essentially what a looked like. When you saw the Tulsa massacre episode this episode we're talking about now. A You can also talk about how that could be standing for black people at work racism and the the how you combat with with all of these monsters, and then actually showing the literal monsters such as the show. Gos-. At. ONE POINT IN THAT DREAM The dream that he had the there was of quick, and if you blinked, you missed it, there was a quick scene in the background of a woman in like that Roman Greek type of armor fighting and that is and indicative of the IM. So when we saw the home Yamazaki so now we and the rest of them fighting. Gi's is stars the Princess of Mars. The fact that she she gi's a Camille who sees the future. For those who are into the comics of of the old school principal of Mars, danger thought there. There's a point where they time travel's like a lot of parallels there between all of these characters. Porsche talked about this before Jackie Robinson the idea of baseball and the significance or Jackie Robinson's significance, the Montrose and also the the the cross reference of DD, ends up loving baseball as we talked about last episode. And then of course, I got you kid freeze and the fact that Atticus essentially becomes Jackie Robinson for for Kid Montross. And I just thought the reason why the other reason why that this was such a mind fuck for me is because there was actually a famine interview with Michele Green again, who wrote this lovely piece of Art along with other emeny amazing people. But she said in her interview about episode one she says I think that opening was laying the groundwork for where we were going. Using found audio and aliens, and having all these monsters and then really setting up the idea that life is but a dream and it's kind of in a way that magic is in this world is like you can use it to create what you want it to be. So with Michel saying that and then with all of this happening with with everything. referencing back to advocates dream I'm just like Yo Misha's fucking with us. And also I think that quotas really because that's other. We talk about a lot on phone hurts into general is that you can. You know the world is and we talked about this earlier in this show is well like that the world when you break down when you get down to the scientific nature of beans at its smallest. Level everything in this universe is made of the same type of matter and we only perceive this world as one way because we perceive it this way, it's just like the idea to matrix toward idea of the force that you know you can affect your world. If you. If you think of Danes, this comes what you think of it. You know what you put your mind to become real. and. We see that happened with leading advocates, they they they both have the same dream of running through the breath white mansion chasing behind Hannity ancestor, and then they both being engulfed in flames and his sorry fossil talked about magic. When they say the intention, it tastes intention to cast spells. It's your intention to cast spells that been affected to reality, and that's the real world saying like it your intention behind thing is not just thinking of things but also put an intention binded they create your world. And this also, this last part about dreams falls a little bit into the Easter Egg category, but the showing of the Dreamland theater, which was an actual theater in Tulsa that was also burnt down and. Just just riding along with the understanding of dreams and everything, and in the context of the show, it's theater. It's it's entertainment. It's it's showing you a story. However using real life contexts. And also the double entendre dream versus stream rate could. Your dreams are like fictional can be in your head and whatever. But then like also like how banana something about it like it's intention behind. James if you put into Schmolly, if your goal is to be a screenwriter whatever anti pitch analogy behind that, then you dream can become your liberty variants right so it's like that's the the whole Johner of dreaming can vote you both like something that's except conscious. This comes to you in the middle of the night or it can be a literal lived dream and how do you do it? Already. Make a real absolutely which tension behind your thoughts. For lunch. I said it earlier but I got getting pissed 'cause I might guilty, we just get dropped into the terminator because it leads us to the theme of time travel and the. This. Is kind of a well known thing for a lot of people but call the butterfly effect, which basically is an it's an implication about how your current actions can have a ripple effect into things that happened into your future and how if we were to go back into the past and change even the slightest thing and may have massive repercussions for your present or for your feature. So for example, something that could be really innocuous you trip over Iraq perhaps that. Could lead to a series of events that ends up you end up beating your your husband or your wife or some shit like that, and it seems really ridiculous on its face. But when you think about it in a real world context, like let's say like this, if you're a student, perhaps you majored in a certain a major in a certain major and because you were in that major in that school, you actually met someone who later on the line helped you. Jenny maybe they major life a living hell. But the point is that would have never happened if you didn't take certain steps to get there. So that and the idea that that understanding happens is repeated in this episode particularly before they jump into the portal hit is very clear to instruct Montross advocates and letty that they cannot do anything in Tulsa Nineteen, twenty one that could. Change the future or they would F-. Everything out so and they could not change the course of history and what that means is people who have died back. Then they have to remain on a path to death they can't warn people that can't save people and as we see even if it's your own kin, your own people's your family, your own blood, you cannot do anything. And I thought that was also as episode display. This I thought it was powerful because I put myself in that position, I could imagine. I go back in the past. Could I trust myself? And I know people do stuff by accident but from a willing perspective, could you trust yourself not to? Warn, or try to help yourself or even people in your pass even people in your family not to change. Like if you knew something terrible was going to happen at this particular day. Could you find yourself not to change a thing and let it occur in front of you? Arm. I'll say this episodes very tough for me on a lot of like I. said before earlier you know my mother passed away just less than two years ago now. And win seeing. Atticus call out for his mother. You know for Mama he sees her just broke my heart. I just absolutely broke my heart I. Add, up for nets two days after that you know. Y- like this. I'll just add up you know I didn't even realize the time. It wasn't till later on I realized how Mathiot moment crush me. and. I don't know you know I. Don't know what I would do in that situation. You know given that chance I have no idea because I I would. You know people say about. Senator has you have any dangerous for another minute another chance to say something to someone you know and so I don't I don't know what I would do in that situation. Is Tough. everything I. You know seen Montross sitting there with the person he loved he said to young Boy Thomas Yeah. Yeah it was bad. You know all of that I I felt every Madaka said that scene was so powerful to me and the bat rolling up and the predestination of it all and this is something that I the very doubtful kid and this is Minded. Thought about win as I. Let's say you're standing on street corner and you decide to go left to right on that street. Now, you go left right on three will instantly change the rest of your life. But you can sit there on that street corner for the rest of your life as well. Trying to figure out. For right right but once you made that decision. That is your life. There is no right. You know if you went left there is no, there is no right. You know that's it and you won't not effective that until. Well you probably won't ever really but it says, you know it's like there is only one thing there is only one there is. No. If there is only is basically there's no, there's no try there is do right yeah there. Yeah there it is. You know and in all seriousness, it really is like that and I also WanNa. Add that everyone listening has to understand that. Not doing anything is also making decision has been I mean with the with the metaphor use of standing on a street corner. Go you have a choice going going right and the third choice is doing nothing that's a choice. And to your detriment or to your. To you winning something that's great. But it's just you have to realize that every thing you do like our entire lives are a series of small decision making this that happened and whether or not they feel significant in the moment, they can have massive repercussions later on Maxine a question about the like. What would you like I? Feel like it depends on what you're set up to do right like in. In cases like they go back into this, like a this one room that they note that this happens to be untouched like at the beginning and end of their insurance in like where they. Actually. Set Up to do right like if they came back with like. glocks in Mike was UCA's in like things that can take them down right? Like they were ready to do that. That's a whole different setup than my them literally only having time to like trait and get a main and come back. So I feel like it depends on what you're set up to do honestly. And we've seen in a million time travel movies ware says like when you do decide you wanna come through and fuck shit up ya the future big being worse. And ends up just being a place where you really don't want to be there and it's just like do and it's a it's a moral conundrum right? Do you allow these these moral atrocities to happen in order for? You to be alive or certain people in history alive, and these are these are and I want to scare anybody because I, know this also such A. Lot to think about as a lots of contemplate and at the same time, you're also human live your life I know as I said, yes your life is a series of of multiple decisions and any one of the season's could could. Become something else but you can't sit there just thinking about whole your. Yeah. Like what do I do like you have to live I'm an indecisive SPIC. So that's all I do and. But at the same time, you have to make movement and you have to make choices and that's what I've learned being indecisive. I am I've also learned that you know whenever I put my foot forward. You know the universe also conspires to help me move the wretched you always got to keep moving forward. Yup. Lastly, in this start of time travel and I mentioned the butterfly effect and we gave you several. Examples there of on the Dreamland Theater Marquee in the show, they wanted the movie that showing it's called the goal starring Buster Keaton and Virginia Foxx and looking at up the movie itself is a series of events or. Events set in motion by one action you know basically the main character he ends up being mistaken for like of criminal and. Everything thereof that happens like literally happens because he he he does one thing which is like he kicks a horseshoe and an end is against the noxious action that ends up having wide ranging effects on the rest of the story, and that also leads into our net steam because sadly the Tulsa massacre was also the effect of someone being a mistaken. I. Light light on that. Led to disastrous result with wide ranging effects. Once again, someone basically someone means someone white try to it like a black man rate a white woman. which which set off a series of actions that led to the essentially today massacre. and. Yes you know like if it's an ethnic massacre like that was no that was a wet. SET ANYTHING OFF. It's literally waiting board to do what they wanted to do in the first place. Stafford. So I'm not gonNA cover everything about the massacre but just so people have an understanding. It happened in the Greenwood neighborhood of Tulsa, which had a population of about ten thousand people. And that area was was deemed as a chance for black people to escape the harsher racial realities of life. Black Tulsen's were segregated into Greenwood but it's there where they built a thriving business district known as Black Wall Street it was. A. Wealthy Landowner from Arkansas moved here and started opening businesses for black resonance and of course, the whack residents live there followed suit and and continue to build up the area. That main street was actually named after Greenwood Mississippi and was later extended to the whole neighborhood up to thirty residents own grocery stores they own different types of businesses like hotels and theaters and transportation services all run by black entrepreneurs and as As quote goals we have that kind of prosperity in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, one this was black Wall Street for a reason and it was burned down and destroyed for reason. Yeah. to get into this just a little bit. I was watching this episode. The destruction of Tulsa everything didn't hit me as much because I feel like I personally had become a bit desensitized to it after having watched watchmen and knowing about it for as long as I've personally known about you know the destruction of Black Wall Street I, I learned about it when I got to Howard University now when I first learned about it and And so. I wanted to do a little research as we do for the show, and so I wanted to see because I was wondering I. Okay. Why is it that one? We keep being shown Tosa right like in the space of a year we've seen it on watchmen and Allan this show. One you know we're approaching one hundred year anniversary. So it's Guys, it's on everyone's mind. But doing the research for this show I learned about what they was coined as the red summer, which was coined by James Weldon Johnson composer who wrote the Negro national anthem you know the jam. And he said the period of racial terror between nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty three point is the red summer. Right nineteen seventeen to nineteen twenty-three remember this is when America's going to World War One right in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, nine, think join over one So during this time, not only engage in a world war, we still have time to engage a war on black people. another often another author Abram, X. Kennedy said the Red Summer described off blood spilled in the deadliest series of white invasions of black neighborhood since reconstruction reconstruction our cars right after the civil war which ends in eighteen sixty five. So this is what blew my mind about this and I've known this. But when you see it laid out, it is just so disturbing the constant, right? Okay. The civil war just in four hundred something years of. Slavery. Or more or Saturday, say right or change to a different form. One of the worst forms of slavery seen throughout history three seen throughout the history of humankind that former slavery would never been seen before. Until came until it was used the pump black people along with the genocide of native Americans, which is happening concurrently at the same time. Right all right. So so we're at you. Okay, civil war ends this we have reconstruction which this man says was the deadliest series of why we're having reconstruction, which is on its you know surface supposedly about giving back to black people to fixing the problems of slavery. But at the same time, white people are coming in invading black neighborhoods and you know what is the deadliest series until this happens in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventeen how many years of that in-between that real quick of fifty something not even like the generation of people. And so in nineteen seventeen, in one, thousand, nine, twenty, three and six years you have a series of riots are not even riots massacres. Let's use the right word where white people went into black neighborhoods and just a across the nation of America not at one place. This is in Chicago this happens in Washington DC. This happens in Florida with Rosewood. This is. All over the nation, you know to pay riot order. Perry. Massacre is also another one that happened in Flo-. Florida you all these things up like I said Montross tissue list of names of people. You mentioned docker chats and he mentioned ped- leg images, all these people that you can google. These are actual residents of Tulsa but going back to the whole series of. Inflection of terror and everything upon black people even in somewhere like Perry where they all day destroyed schools, the churches the stores like they didn't kill everyone people left behind black people would leave and leave behind their resources, their homes everything and never returned. None of these tribes forever reported as we all know that are not included in history books for the most part, and this is Perry Florida Perry Florida, this on an. Immortal cases and these instances. That's the same thing that happened a white woman accused some black man and like Porsche said, they're just waiting for us to take away everything. There's this book. that. I WANNA shout to the color of money because Tana House coach mentioned recently the Color Money Blankson the racial wealth gap by mezro Barrett End, and this book talks about how when everyone whenever you hear someone say, why don't black people do like the Jews black people do like the Chinese I don't black people. Do you know whoever you want and there's a reason why? Because whenever we have attempted debris response by Whiteness has been? Insane to say the least violently insane and okay. So going back to this red summer nineteen, seventeen to nine, hundred, twenty, three don't add late this stops there. And Ben. You're right at this happened during the World War One because World War One and in one thousand, nine, hundred. At the same time they got time. But recently That is going to come into attention a lot in the near future but a lot of people don't know about is the bombing in Philly of the move. Organization. This isn't a nine hundred, sixty two right that's in the seventies seventies. Okay. Jesus Christ and there's Oh excuse me. No. Now. Because there was a few things that happened. So they were happening. Night Yeah. So there was something happened in the seventies where there was a standoff with with with injuries and officers, gifts and stuff, but then. When they dropped the bomb that was eighty, five, eighty five let the fire burn speaking of fire which comes up so many times in this episode, let the Fire Burn is a excellent documentary up two years ago on the move bombing and everything, and there was an article in the source magazine years ago when I was growing up, that's when I first learned about district saint in being none of your history but please dropped a bomb on a residential district, a residential neighborhood in Philadelphia. Anyone who's in like Tahoe's talked to Chris Maura who grew up in Philly anyone group in Philly knows you know it's like this is this happened. You know this is what they do, and at this point you're all I'll be honest. I am really looking for my options for moving away from this country because I do not see it changing because this is what it was built and designed to do and change will be very incremental at best because the system people always say you know worked from inside to fix the system and everything systems built exactly. It's doing its acted with a bill designed to do. What's also interesting. Sorry. I had. This is this is good. This is good education. This is good. There's good reminder and even in the context of the show of lovecraft country should be oh, this all fits into all of the things we've been talking about The Butterfly Effect the aspect of rewinding time time repeating itself. All of these real life massacres and violent events keep repeating themselves happening over and over again up through. Something as agreed just bombing, a residential neighborhood happened through the eighties, which is not that long ago if you think about it and then obviously the ongoing police brutality and other things that continue to happen to black Americans in this country. So just the idea that these are all e even from a context of a show, this all feeds into the same storyline. And it is on I mean it's just so many instances like. I mean I don't like pylon bring the some of the things that are like the less well known stories because there is like, no like these big massacres, there's also disliked the general like There's this call finished in. They looked at this case of this mentor banks who he helped, build up a community in Arkansas where it was like it was black folk and then it was doing proffering so much that white people built us a town nearby and kind of like you. Had this happened in Israel or banks is a black man who built up like his own sharecropper. He had his plan of blank figured out how to like own the land that he'd been share cropping on in the a good farming land and then. Mysteriously he some like the sheriff is also in charge of collecting taxes in somehow he says, that is behind on paying taxes whenever all the accounting book show the door was always up to up to date and taking care of his taxes. And then he he was a big part of the community. He was like a councilman or something, and he again like it's mostly black who had had the small town and then like this other. Brandit. He decided that he was going to link up with Lacey Peterson within a year of Henley cannot with. They start having a lot of trouble with white folks in town. And is it was like Oh cameras in my family to go live in like the more and then within like a couple of doing that he died. And nobody would tell them what happened to him. That's not like a frigging like one story that happened so much throughout the south that people actually were big land owners and farmers, and so many of southerners like our people how to do farmland and they just got pushed out of being able to even owned land and get the money subsidizing that they would need to run arms anymore. So there's so many people who Again like twenty eight years in a meal like that was supposed to be a thing and people were like really onto it already. So many people forty diggers. Sony people who like they actually tried to build that out like they actually did what they need to do to get it happening and then it was all taken away from them. And that's when we talk about on for nerds far we say inclusion and include everyone because I've often thought about the word minority is such a both as word and is meant to divide people and the attack on people from Whiteness has come on every angle like we mentioned before and. Genocide of native Americans is taking place at the same time. During World War Two determined of Japanese Americans on American soil just because they were Japanese because we evolved war with. Japan. At the time these are being said just happen. You know we're an people at like it's nothing when we talk about the native American. But you're talking about stealing shit agreement after agreement and the land is stolen from them. You know to form this country. Now, that's why you know the phrase your we're all standing on stolen land is truth. Indeed. And I know this is a lot of process everyone take a deep breath. All, right but one more one more thing. I'd say because I read into blows my mind it's like we're expected to this does work. Did go on with life you know. and. When you speak of The population you know the Holocaust is constantly reminded you know nine eleven now we're constantly reminded. We're talking about now right now we're living in a world where we have two, hundred, ten at four, hundred, fourteen. You know dead Americans from the coronavirus had the time recording? Yes. Two, hundred, fourteen, thousand you know turn Fourteen K thousand dead at his Hamas recording. If we lived in a just society, you know we'd be reminded of that because we're living in his BS right now we're not gonNA talk about that. Go sweep that under the rug as much as possible while it's three thousand people on nine eleven that you're minded about every year but we're not reminded about this. You know we're not taught about this and even if you were, you would still be expected to just go on. Like even still love this country. Yeah. I like all these stories being hidden is all like to it all helps the whole story of light. When will time by will to just get over it like? The whole lake idea behind. You know we're resilient because we have all these awful things happen to us what black people just keep on pushing on trust and it's sweet we overcome we shall overcome every single time and we're the ones you're supposed to be the ones who are. The ones who are the better person we're always better people. We always like forgive I wanNA something bad happens to us like that's how we're supposed to do because they told they've hidden these stories from my so it's like what are you actually angry about like angry about a lot of different things and you're telling me that I'm not supposed to be because it would then make. You have to do something and you don't want to do anything about it. So No and it's just like we say so many hidden stories just this year I learned about call Hampton like I grew up in Houston and call Hampton part of the Black Panthers or Houston that I didn't even know existed. You know why? Because They Kill Car Hampton at twenty one years old. I. Mean that they're getting Marshall went to my small town. Aimed I'd never. Thurgood. Marshall is so famous. So. Famous and you're Mahalia learn about Tulsa like at Howard I learned about also like Lincoln under the age we see you like I didn't they're good march with my you had no idea that was all connected to my small town because he got out of it. Yeah. I. Know About Thurgood. Because my mother in a tissue school law is where she went and attended Texas Southern University. So that's how but yeah. We just don't learn this stuff. I, do like that. This show is, as we say, a teacher has about American history black history, which is American history teaching us about our past and our president, and also teaching us about the different abilities of people and and the things they go through like we learn things like machos being dyslexic so they. Enter that into the to the thoughts. We also are learning about alcoholism as a disease. Liquor played a big prominent role. In this episode, it has appeared in the last episode particularly Machos, but it continuously appeared in this episode. And you can look at it as both a conduit for causing alleviating pain as we saw, montrose us at all to uses alcohol to drown out his demons and his his his internal debate within himselves He saw him drinking like this moonshine top of type of concoction that he says Uncle George or excuse me his brother George Calls Road rash. Montrose being drunk facilitates his emotional. Violence against advocates particularly when he was a child and even now just him just going in on attic is usually he's he's drunk when his happening and has always called him out on it macho father especially, as we see in this rewind nineteen, twenty, one episode, his father was also drunk and under the influence as he was physically abused abusing. Montross in it was wild because you actually saw machos get the biggest switch in his life to beat Machos s and what was more unnerving is that the direction of this episode sat there major? Watch. And you saw letty both leading advocates wincing like seen as corporal punishment happening in front of them. But then you as the audience you're watching this, you're watching him beat kid montrose bloody. Yeah. Is Tough. You know like I didn't grow up you know I mean I grew up feeling like all people I think deal figuring out what this? Is, but I definitely grew up with a father who is a functional alcoholic And I grew up with that rage that was caused by alcoholism and by being a black man deal with it dealing with America you know and alcoholism together and. All you know I grew up, you know I've been hit with everything and so that that scene was you know. Like. Most of this episode. And then have adequate cry for his mom mother at the same. You know in the same scene you know like I say hit me it. Does me as a child you know basically running from dad you know doing my mom and so it was tough man this is tough. About that dynamic between Montrose and advocates when they did have at finally into Porsche Porsche was waiting for this. They did finding the shop have that conversation where where Macho Sake Yo the more. You you're not the father came out and he said Yo I'll Georgia's probably your dead homie. I loved how quick turnaround was radically Yo after this is. You had in my life and. This like I'm ready to cut up for real. It was like that, Song The daddy something came out in the early thousands or whatever like you ain't my daddy should like own. Literally. Came at Montross he's doing my daddy. I JUST WANNA big up Jonathan Majors. He's a hell of an actor. Of and he's an act toll, the emphasis on that's off like. The way he you saw him doing the calculations into mental and emotional and physical calculation than this head of you're not my dad then what the fuck was all of this. Bullshit I went through my entire life with you and he says it at one point I wanted it to be my father. Because of all this stuff I had to go through enter. FINAU. Now, he really was an all trio because it was a pack essentially between Montrose Dora and and. George that this was just going going be. Man and like I had those feelings too, and then I think advocates had to wrestle with the same things that I had to wrestle with is the fact you had to understand one I didn't have any of the boss. George, in my life who wasn't nobody else I wish my mom and married him you. Heck is all. Be. Retrace. But I was just like more. So I had to understand that without my father being my father I wouldn't be me. You know and me and my father had a different relationship. Now I love my bad and I understand a lot of the things that he put upon me where because of his own trauma. I understand that and I'm not carrying that forward you know and I forgive them for that. But for a time, I, was there with you know. Atticus where I felt that way. But then I understand that you know everything that is is because of who I am now, he the new stand that just because George was there. Is One of the things Montross and still daddy and that's a macho says he's. I've wanted you. Yes. You know I raised you now whether or not are as you the best way I raise you the best way I could or the best way I knew, and that's what I understand about my own father. He was raised in meet a best way. He knew you know which probably ain't the best but you know you doing the best and he also supported me in a lot of ways and all that too and Montrose for all his trash is still is doing the same. And Atticus dropped so much trash himself that he can't talk about nobody whenever you're going down a little bit of bitch ass in there too. I if we're being very honest. ooh Boy conversations trip had. Conversations could be had, and that's why I everything is such a complicated truth and it annoys me a bit because I feel like all of these cancers are so smart so for them. Constantly run into these complicated truths and as Ben kept saying images has had a conversation they wouldn't be one contradicting each other every step of the way they wouldn't be losing leverage against a common enemy or presumed common enemy the white folks, white magic and Christina, and they would be moving as a unit considering they all have gone through this magic gauntlet in many different ways and even people who is not supposed to be witted Diana. Does innocent and she got got maybe the worst. They also live yet let got shot and technically die but she here. But don't you didn't that Kinda ties in with like Black families and what we do in don't know by omission like what they've chosen to tell us what toys chosen to give a nice overtime in what the insulate a of the times like they're. You know they're not rapping her place kind of situation from the job of like should I share this or should I not and they ended up keeping to themselves and then doesn't happen to be without them only like rhythm making the choice of not telling her whatever they didn't think they would have percussions on her but it did. Yeah. Yeah The Repercussions Macho. And this is a different type of rubber question. But when Marshall's revealed to the whole story about what actually the full story of what happened to him as a kid in Tulsa and his friend Thomas and having to watch that scene. When letty revealed to advocate that she already gave the pages Christine when she gave her senior the negatives of the photos and she did it in an effort to protect Abacus but atticus was already working on this Bell Montrose. was saying right there because this is something so truest. Black parents have to deal with just yet another level like what do I tell my kids because me especially I've know growing up I was A. Boy You know when it came politics and stuff and white people into religion into a lot of things. I just had a lot of thoughts you know and I know my mom would try and curb me where she'd be like bad I didn't. You know look why Graca for What they do, and she knows you know I have like older cousins who marched mckean literally like handing in their pitcher him McCain. My mom was the first black city councilwoman ours a cow something in the city of Cheyenne. Wyoming, which if you know fucking Wyoming, it is nothing but white people and there's a reason wider is wonder bread. You know they drove every black person out. I. Ernest recently, people always talk about like Utah and places like that. White people I mean black people just didn't. WanNa live there. and. That's not the case you know white people drove black people out of these places out of Wyoming Montana out of Utah out of the Mid West. You know drove them out literally and my mom was the first black woman there. So. This is I in my history, my blood you know. I could go on and on, but that's Not, the point the point is like. She would not tell you tell me a lot of things she would educate me on black history. Of course you know she was very much all that but there's a lot of stuff that she knew that you just don't tell your kids because how do you tell them that inspect them to go on with life? You know I. It's this choice in country to we have to deal with it. So many things that we have this fucking tight rope. To Walk in Yeah. and. The cracker so much on this show y'all. On getting it you know because I'm tired of it. I'm tired of walking tyrod. Twin telling me that man. That fucking Tiro well even and these characters keep walking the tightrope and very. Smart Point Porsche like you have to be smart about what type of information you share and what you don't and has been says walking tight of how much information do you give I thought it was comedy when Letty try to explain the true to Hattie a abacus great grandmother when the House was being burnt and atticus will right before they have adequate great-grandmother Ranan caught letty rummaging through the doors and it was like Bro. What are you doing I? Knew you as suspect you had on them convert shoe what's going on and then letty just look. She was like, yeah, I might as well every inch e the way. Let me try to explain what was happening. She was the future I felt like it was like every black person trying to explain lovecraft country to they cousins like because it was just well you my cousins aunts uncle and I'm GonNa have your great grandbaby and I need this because we need the magic spell like she just. Was Comedy and again just just an indicative of the truth being absolutely complicated and also just a quick question to the both of you if you was that ancestor and somebody from the claiming from the future showed up at some wild time and they said Joe I, need you I need you to give me I need to me this special book. Because all this is happening. Would you believe them? My mind you. There's some wearing this dress from the twenties and converse sneakers which of believe him. But I wake I saw not everybody knows about that book so. So I felt like NFL curbing the Guardian That was when that was my main question, I, WanNa, talk in its at CR actually was. D- think that The grandma had shared the information about the book with at least someone else besides herself about like being the Guardian like with like what is their family like bank about passing it on like when do they get to know because from what we can tell from advocates his mom was either adamant about not talking about it or literally just like. Didn't know what the conference of the book where because her grandma didn't know the book where she just knew that she was tasked with having the message on top of it and keeping it safe. She was side opening, right? So I'm like someone but someone in your family line someone had have opened it in figuring you know like you know there's someone always the line. Right well, that's someone. Just Hattie. Yeah because having said that she was told not to open it right but the words, the words the. Open yet there's a magic spell just even open the book yet been saying like somebody had to be curious to open it before atticus we don't think. Listen, we talked about families especially in black families keeping secrets and they've kept it well secret for years and sometimes zeal hundred years so And and I think Hattie because she knows. You know I think there is something where these women in the family know some magic at the very least might not even be on all the you know in the book they might have pages outside book whatever. But she was you when she saw shorty right away she knew what was the year as soon as I saw. The fucking converse is on the Cortez's I was just like Oh yeah that's that's wild that she don't belong. Industry, I was like. Look man looked older. She kinda looks they're trying to blend she wild places them sneakers on. Have you over here like how did you hit on sneakers? I come everytime, bitch. Every fucking Saturday I come up empty and you over here on. The Nike APP. And he was pissed. This abbot passionately said. With? You turn to make work here, but it doesn't work. Out of my house but to your point because like basically, no, one would know about the book and the fact that Letty did and also the fact that letty basically saw you got that Harry Potter birthmark on you and no one else then maybe that's why. Okay sure all right a big ups though too Regina Taylor the actor who played Gaddis adequate great grandmother she's been in everything. Damn near everything for years and so. Can we talk about people having conversations not have conversations about rubies? We're we're talking about that right now it's. Time to bring it up. Yeah because a Porsche called Ruby. Salad? Brother Mellow Marketer who said Atticus is the villain of the series early. Early as But I'm not sure I feel like we terminated happen happening right now now that making me feel like maybe he is but we all. We also have to say that like we said earlier, we trust none of these. Ruby especially though. Listen I. DON'T I've said it before and I said it again I don't trust Ruby nor Christina I don't trust their relationship because at the end of the day I. Feel like Ruby is still a means to an end for Christina. Christina has developed some type of true feelings and they both have maybe have some type of true feelings. They are both textbook definitions of individualism as as Christina Lectured Ruby about you want it what you wanted and Christina's same Christina. Will Not stop until she's immortal like just seem to think about that that concept of a human being saying I am not going to stop until I memorial. You mortal like what? She even so I wanna see forever I and all that, and this is like. Him and you like is just out of control and also just the fact that rubies falling right into the trap of Christina like when when, when Ruby. Lambasts letty trying to make her feel stupid for Pharma behind advocates in them and I'm just like. I don't trust you. At all at all. I do I will say this about the writing on the show it is even when cared of made decisions that I don't agree with understand them you know and doing her characters are behaving themselves and understand why they would make that decision because I understand we'll be like if somebody came out with like, Oh, you ain't gotta deal with this bullshit. nomo. I might be like word and they kept their word. That's. WHO SAYS I but like in the I mean boosted on a huge level to. Do, it boasted of American. Everything is good. You know all you gotta do that football over there die. Literally. She's over here. Water headed his she. Out. Here, totally for her Avatar. Trying to customize her Barbie that's one she was all in. She says, she shut off the she sought up the life for her Sim. Life. fucked up I WANNA say oh. Now. Ruby is completely sold into this life. She literally said. I don't know about this over here Mexico for advocates in casinos like how? I only braddock institutes like only advocates. You only muster Care Kill. To others shot. Mama you think about it in full lovecraft country world context. She not wrong issue. She could give a fuck about advocates like. Ruby. Yes. No and advocacy trash. He does. His bed almost attacked her sister like. These territories music understandable. But at the same time though like I know a being a assists there. You don't be likened some of the dudes that your siblings newish. You sometimes like you would you be down like kill sister found out that he was ready whenever it came down to the kill order you're like look I just said you're safe I think it's not like you'll be fine with saying that to your sibling I didn't care for your person died. My sister my. Baby Daddy I? Mean No, you know. But some of the mother if somebody's that, you ain't got to deal with the bullshit of American know moby. homeboy slip. For one of them chats be no question. Dow. Up. Ever, so this is a few more. Lines like is still. Wow Wow Billion Dollars on the elevator. Okay. Listen another theme that catch the fire and fire. This is huge. This. Display twice actually in two different ways. So kesse fires actually the name of a poem by Sonia Sanchez. Sonia Sanchez and She's a she's an American poet writer professor leading black figure black woman in the Black Arts Movement She's been part of the the the. One I'm trying to say she's a member of core the Congress for racial equality she met Malcolm X. like she was part of the whole civil rights situation. She she she she been there she's been with it. Ben had some great extra notes about this this poem, catch the fire like where it's from In nineteen ninety-four as a in one not not bill cosby had been on that bullshit since nineteen, ninety four but basically a response to bill cosby's admonition are monitoring of the youth of black people saying that they had no fire and so this is something you're saying catch fire black people, and even in the show I was taken aback by the words of it like I love Sonya, I, love most of. Which is I you know? Catch fire but don't do that gains through shadow you know and this is nineteen, ninety four. So she's obvious talking against rap music and she's a huge fan of hop in general but I'll been against the rap is misunderstood and cast as bad thing. So now my one thing and then my other question was like you wrote this as I oh yeah bill you're right. About that. Well And Most famous people knew about bill early might not have known a being. People knew men, and so it's you know it's interesting. Yeah you know. Well so the cash afire poem, the voiceover happens when after a basically Hattie, the grandmother Great Grandmother Essentially agreed to die in a fire and lead and that's another reason why this is so hard for me to watch. So let watches her. Catch by. Again why ask before like if that was used the answers, could you agree to that but if it meant the securing of your bloodline is occurring on the future of your family would you do it probably will? Write. Her. A Lot. But yes, the that poem started playing on the voice over for the poem. Sorry. Playing the actual voice over Sonia Sanchez and the. I wanted to readjust just a quick stanza from it Here, we go. Where is your fire? I say, where is your fire? Can you smell it coming out of our pass the fire of living not dying the fire of loving not killing the five black Miss Not Gangsta shadows where is our beautiful fire that gave light to the world the fire of Pyramids, the fire that burnt through the holes of slave ships and made us breath. I encourage you all to google the catch fire poem by Sonia Sanchez to really read everything about it and really interrogate the words that she saying and the way I read it because I'm just reading through but she says it in a rhythmic way 'cause it's also watch the video of you can but she doesn't very rhythmic way she employees things like Haiku and and and. That that soprano sounds and things like that to to help put emphasis on award. So so listen to it and read it. But the reason why I'm bringing up is because this is essential to this episode of how your history helps make you who you are of how you have to use your ability to uplift your family and community recognizing your power. In this case, your blackness as your fire as as your source of progression of movement towards the future and you see this happening through the episode. Using one example atticus. When he grabs that Bay, he goes wailing on the white people and you hear the Catcher, you hit the opera version but you hear the catcher fire songs are to play and the fact that he's doing this is secure the future of his family's future of black. People. It also makes me think of a very and I said this on four owners before but very disrespectful thing that has been going on with people where they were like, Oh, I'm not my ancestor. Let me tell you something you are here because of your ancestors, you are your ancestors, your ancestors fuck shit up for you. There and I know people try to quite say, well, you know what? About the respectability politics people? That's not what I'm talking about here. Your ancestor very reason you breathe. So never in your life, should you ever say anything so ridiculous Ever over. Just want to make that point. Also about fire, the idea of fire has cleansing. For, new things you when when fire, the natural occuring fire occurs in a in a forest whatever clears the brush, it makes way for new growth There's lots of allegory here and I mentioned Hattie burning right in front of. Is. Ben You said it. Had A-. Had he had a comment about her faith becoming flesh? One of the reasons why she decides to just let history happened as it's supposed to happens because she has his unwavering faith that she's like an her grant, her great triple great grandson or whatever. That baby I let summit represents that is the continuation of her faith. There's also some other. References that caught my I was ready walking through the streets and the fire bombs dropping all around her her walking through through the fire. Reminded me of one reminded me of the film apocalypse now by Vietnam. And bombings that they show NFL and also reminded me of letty being the Phoenix you know and being reborn in this lame and walking through the fire and still surviving and coming out of the ashes Tulsa something greater and stronger through it. He sang through the fire. Gave me shock con so Oh. and famously tiny through the why And also there's a famous poem of by Delmore Schwartz where he has the line time is the fire in which we burn time is the fire in which you learn. As always struck me those lines and at that time is fire either way did you learn to it and you burn it? You know either way we burn away through the pass it to time and you know it's also how we learn. Yeah, and all of these I. Again, we have to say this as a masterclass in writing also, the series miniseries is because all of this stuff connects with previous things character said that connects with with previous themes of previous episodes that idea fire next dream that both leading advocates have have kept having a Bernie in the braithwaite manner. But as we see now, ladies and vulnerable, she can come through with no suffering connects back to I episode of with that Fire Song by mother's finest the band. and again, just the idea of fire being a force and unstoppable force. That could be used for. Both growth and Sometimes a whole things back. Yeah and we see a few. Houses getting it was just. It was difficult to watch I just. Again, a direction choice to allow us to watch Hattie burn in real time. Ever seen that before in my life. In her hand being safe because it was what was it was in buddies hand yeah. In the book also being safe because it was like in inlays other hands like who she streets protecting like the legacy of the family is the oldest living person family in like their oldest like artifact issues leading the vote that moment. Just a lot of overtones there And her hold in the future at a family owned. And a book you know being future families. Welcome. Just read family. Your. Standard, everybody. Everybody involved here. Okay and once again. People talk about the terror and horror in this series, and you see like the monsters are one thing but the real monster all off for people at least is dealing with America itself and. One of the most horrific moments this series is not inflicted by any magic or any of that. It's just by. You know white people being white people. Porsche you had a theme here. That I. Love You talk through. Through. Up Noticing as we've been watching these different episodes of this. Now episode, nine of the series like we care heartbeat said really intricate different parts of the stories. and. I personally found a like for this episode. HEARD THEM I when William slept in talking to the cops? As he's like not healing from his wounds like you can hear we'll. We'll see right it's hard. William but also Christina, it's also Christina we'll. Stena. COPS. and. then. We also your heart beets when. We hear and see it in the movement of the portal. Whenever. hippolyte is conducting the machine. You can literally see the portal like pump like a hard pulse on apple states, and it kind of makes a con on a heartbeat sound but it's like it moves like a heartbeat can inflate rhythm in the. and. Then also, we hear heartbeats when letty walks through the bombs looking here like the music you hear the bombs, but you also hear like a faint heartbeat of. A little bit Kabaddi, the heartbeat of her child, her unborn baby. It'd be a lot of things. It's and overall heartbeats. Heart signifies love truth the inner you the it could be a heartbeat of the community of family and all of the characters have embraced and combated these themes throughout the miniseries and also as said before black women are beating hardy universe. Thank you for coming to your tedtalk never forget never get. Rounding out with the themes I just asked in bold letters is hippolyte ascended to God now. The mini series folks, this is a mini. Bombing was alluding to win. He said everyone's kind of a little powerful in game. He was a little opie right now. So what's going on? You know a little too much. How much further can you go with this story? Perhaps spinoff opportunity. The of interest movement, the of blue. Number One. Number One how does she get back because cynically the machine was supposed to be broke and it was still broke when they showed up and is no carpet her to drive back with? What hippolyte says that she was on Earth Five, zero, four, four, the equivalent for about two hundred years when they ask her, where was you, Bro. And she talks about the infinite. She was on a place where there was infinite possibilities when it wisdom and she's and. That wisdom that I did and I up only. In comics that idea of having infinite. Power and wisdom reminds me of of Gods of the ultimate of the what are the delivering plan is. All the stuff is just like. Are. You even human at this point we saw that we saw in the episode that Serafin or whomever in. These crystals or things in her in hippolyte his risks what they are I still have no idea. And then she holds a crystal at one point and says, I can use this to restart the machine like. Who is she? What's going on when she becomes hippolyte a blue This could be referenced but I took it as a reference. Her Eyes Turn White. You heard pupils are GonNa Remind Me Superhero Storm. Lightning bolts from out of lightning bolts come out of her storm is one of the most powerful mutants, all of the Marvel Universe and a black woman and one of the few black women as well. It's a lot going on here. Why Five Oh folks. area call for the way the Anna. Holy Bible. That's. Yes I mean my my only big into my. Mind lines on the wall and everything I was thinking about how you know beyond say is from Houston and her mom is from New Orleans right so rice the connection, right? Also. I okay, Ivy and if you know your mathematics economics. Lugosi ceilings above her okay. The light ago she went into space the Arnaud seal release. People say you reach it? Seems. That's actually good point been A. When. You said that before I thought of New Orleans. New Orleans is a place of rebirth. What we call now. On our born when I was in New Orleans but you know you can call it that. I'm talking there's a lot of spiritual energy. Shrew is going on there. And also disappoint I WANNA make. During that that comment when hippolyte is first of all, she shows up the fucking hurricane comes through and says Joe we gotta go like she knows absolutely everything and she explains why you know infinite possibilities all that she says and I'm going to use that to save my daughter now get in the car. It reminded me was to me it echoed now we speech in the IM episode where she says now, get the fuck now we explained you know you have all of this learning and this thought in all these abilities now get the fuck up as Ben I'm means beautiful sweatshirts says. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And also again while I'm like she, a God was going on with her what issue at this point because when she to control the multidimensional machine the multi-dimensional. Machine. hippolyte says requires a motherboard in the fifties and I. I don't know all the history of the fifties. I don't think they have that tech yet. So she explains that she can be a stand in for it a conduit. If you will for those who don't know what a motherboard, it basically processes the communication to all of the different crucial electric electronic components of a system. So in the case of your computer that you're using to watch us on right now. It connects all of the central core processing units memory. It helps you connect it connects other things to your computer like the reason why your keyboards working with your computer right now, the reason why your mouse works that motherboard is necessary and this story. Is figuratively, and literally the motherboard of the series she is the connecting tissue for all the cavs of the show and her return is the only reason that they can save d. and the entire family and progress story forward. Wild Shit. Within say. Be. I'm just saying there's a lot right now that is messing meal and finally finally last theme Vampirism. was waiting to. Say Christine is vampire. We talk about the idea of blood being lifeblood rejuvenation transformation. We see we'll. We'll stay in a explained that the blood of these closest relatives is required in order for that that spell to help reverse her curse to work temporarily reverse the curse Christina shares with Ruby that atticus blood is a major component of her immortality spell and that she needs quote all of it in order to successfully. Get immortality. which Ben. And also I personally personal standpoint every time I. See William Christina's William he reminds me of Eric North men from blood And when I looked it up des. Jordan Patrick. Smith who plays William. Looks like he can be Alexander Skarsgard fucking brother. They look just like so there's your vampire right there, and of course, Christina wearing that blood readdress standing out very much throughout the episode and even let he's wearing a readdress. Scary. That is the theme of this episode as far as Easter eggs miseration. We already talked about a lot of them already mentioned. Sony Sanchez and catch the fire definitely watch and listen to that poem as you get when you moment another Easter. Inspiration, as the exorcists when embiid turning into the top of the human, they try to remove the curse. It. It just gives me shades of the exorcist where see that her face really wild into monarch and then. Christina drawing the the curse of Hera just reminded me of Harvey's like Amityville Horror the flies going all over the place. It was a lot. Mike Pence. A. Accordion and just to give you the context according to some political references like flies follow you immed- you happiness And it will continue to be that way into the flies gone. Some people say that flies following you is a sign that you should repent your sins and work towards redemption otherwise everything will go wrong in your life. Right parents. And as we mentioned before Lord of the flies, the devil. Musical notes for this episode include the Song Avalon Al Jolson. The song my baby's Fox Trot. Enter Tulsa nine hundred, twenty, one Don't kill Dub says rob featuring Sonia Sanchez what what it is a Remix of Sonia Sanchez. Poem her speaking the poem and then the it's called Tulsa nine hundred, twenty, one catch fire, which is the operatic version of the Sonia Sanchez Poem Sung. Composed Qassam by Janai Brugere of the Metropolitan Opera. Very. Beautiful. So very stateful ns hard as Tulsa burning right during the end. During ladies walk down the. Streets Yeah and deny Brugere. She is a black woman, a beautifully gifted lyric soprano. That is it for the details we ran through so much this episode. And also, we think this is this I think this is the first time at the end credits at the song is Centerman. Wasn't potentially because. I like every episode Centerman plays right. At. The end of this episode, they just continued the catch a fire opera. Interesting. Now, what does that mean I don't know could signal that we are not in Kansas anymore is a lot going on Kentucky or Kentucky I don't know where the hell we at I don't know where the hell we going but I'm intrigued. Thank you very much for listening to. Everyone who has supported US continues to support us. We appreciate you shut off to everyone hit us up on the T. Public Merch page. That's t public dot com slash for all nerds get your beautiful get the fuck up now. Design on. Everything Cups Books Pillow's mask. Sweat shirts make sure that. You are following us on socials again. Just I follow four on their heads on every. Platform podcasts by phone that you listen to that way, you can listen to this podcast show. Also make sure you're following us on social media I'm at Tatyana King. Jamie. And I were she? Excellent. Please help. Let us know what you think and you've been doing a great job at it. 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