The Mojo Radio Show Ep 282: Where do we find complete freedom? Jaimal Yogis
The radio show we scare the planet to find the biggest names in health, creativity, wellness, strategy, brand, management, and more. This is going to be crazy. This Jason Overcome. Coach I. This is cal new author of deep workday. This is Brian that Richard Davies. Injury from the Canadian national. Women's Rugby Team Street in the state bludger. Radio. I'll be. We ask the big questions Miss Degree. Question actually landed right on March another really good question talking to you. Harvard's norm. Than that I had the I lake five hundred interviews. Nobody asked me about this Wow, sometimes, we talk about darts. Can I tell you Dana Gary Favorite Sport? He's dots. HOW ATHLETIC! I think it's interesting that at your favorite. Sport that I know a prerequisite. A cigarette. Come on, let's be honest. We take ourselves too seriously wrong half dozen. A. Welcome. To. Radio show. Everybody and welcome to this week's dishing of the merger radio show welcome aboard the big bread bus if you're new on the bus. And you have your ticket. What does this little program about? What can you expect well? It really is quite simple. We just find interesting people that we think. Have the merger working point of view. and. We just want to have a chat to find out what it is they do so we can apply to our own world or maybe someone. We know who's struggling at the moment. In order to get them Joe working this week. We are heading to freedom town, which is due north and we're heading up there with the salt water. He's going to be onboard the bus so one before we start your only price to get on board. The Big Red Bus east to leave us a review on I. Tunes throws a bone. Folks just the shows, no advertised, sadly no sponsors. It. Lets US know you're out there. It keeps the fuel in the tank and to be honest. We feed off that so if you can. Just one line destroys the bone, just going. They give us review a something. Let's say you're out. The that'd be good teams all aboard. The Bar Fridge is well stocked. I see rabbi puts. You've talked up on Tim's In fact, did you know? On US kit, isn't it I'm sorry I was going to say. There's a tea shop opening. But there is A. There is a keep cat store opening up based on the influence of the Japanese on live is kit cats. I don't know you you. Could you take the kitten will? Look I could walk away from team Tam but. I'm just thinking I can barely see through the moving boxes in here because voters sounds about to move premises I need a few cats. Because when you have a break, you need a Kit Kat apparently. ovallis remarkable facts. Well I took some cues from our guest this week. Our guests seems to enjoy basing their titles of these books around surfing so I figured the obvious question was for me, anyway was who surfed the biggest wave in history. And exactly how big was it now turns out. That record belongs to a guy called Garrett. McNamara Garrett Job Dean on get these one hundred foot wave back in two thousand eleven. That's thirty odd Mehta's or about a third of a football field in Robbo speak. Ever Humble Garrett, said it was really like any other wife I had no idea I was on what would become the world record? Wife remember thinking the entire time that I wish I was DEEPA, but after looking at the footage realized my jet Ski Partner had put me in the perfect spot. You can see. He's well record. Ride on Youtube. It's absolutely incredible. If you're a surfer, you will not believe it if you want to check it out, take a pick it out. FACEBOOK page and also get GB. Drop that in the show nights, butter a hundred foot. I'm not sure, I would be brave enough thankfully. Garrett's big fan of the show, so he could I might be good to have you on board. The the big red bus. I think he listened to Eddie would go episode. Any would go and now. I've got something remarkable impact of the virus. This I I saw stats in the. New York Times. and. I don't know that we are. We totally grasp the impact of this pandemic. Been Ninety. Six percent decrease in travelers, passing through the US airport security up that was that was between in March. April and this. Said Ninety six percent less travel imagine the impact that's having on hotels and security guys, starbucks, coffee teams news agencies claim caterers taxis That's. The but the flip side. Of thousand a suffering. Ease the Americans what six point one billion hours of Netflix in April alone. While I find it astonishing and the US box office revenues who are really suffering right now a macho pains we back a little grand couple of weeks with three hundred grand. That would normally be eleven million last year half the Americans. Employed before the virus are now working remotely and has been a thirty times. In zooms ten million in December thirty million people in April. That's what it is today. So when you dig into the stats and Lucky country here we think we're starting to get on top of things, but I'll tell you what this a long long wedding. Play up particularly for your business can't particularly if you're in America to you, but you know the thing that I find surprising about that. Ninety six percent through the airports, thing for me is actually would have gone not. Not Lower than that actually would have gone higher I wish we would've thought in ninety nine ninety eight percent with the whole country, being in lockdown and stuff I find ninety-six percent remarkable interested, in terms of maybe more than I would have thought now there is still some flights going, so there are still the right warriors Herat. They doing stuff so the not the airport's closed. But it's pretty restricted we'd we'd be. We'd going. It'd BE LINEUPS VIA STARBUCKS S. Radio show. Al Guest this week is Jamal Yoga's who is known as the Salt Boorda Buddha and that's how I I came across. It was a cool name. This is a guy who had a young age found himself in trouble. He ran away to Hawaii to follow his Lifelong Dream of surfing. He ended up in a Buddhist monastery. He then seven of the best beaches in the world, and then he had a dream to be a writer and. What's curious about your Mollahs in doing so? He let more about himself that he did. Just atop a here was writing about and. That all became his first book. Which is the best selling book is? kind of a memoir called the salt water. The Salt Water Buddha. which has been adapted into a beautiful film and I'll put that in the show nuts for everybody to go to. You can find youtube easy enough. He was a guest on episode, one, forty, five and his Rodney. He's been very successful mace writings Zepeda. DidN'T SPF magazine Washington Post. He's done stuff with Oprah and Jamal's a guy who's probably seeking searching for peace. In an out of control distracted. Overly busy world and he takes lessons from. His time in the monastries like he's lessons from Zen, in applies them to our busy, corporate and personal lives. To help us, I guess better handle all the chaos. That normally surrounds us. Jamal's about to launch his first children's book. which actually goes out this week? It's called. Mop Rides the waves of life. It's small. It's Kinda cool issues to gripe thing to sit with a kid and read lovely lessons in that and he's agreed to bring his set board to the studio to take through that book and lots more Jamal Welcome back by thank you. We kind of sucked too bad if you're gonNA, come back on time and time. Is Being Generous. I loved loved being on the last time, so just looking for an excuse to get back on will. Pretty good one! Yeah, you know what's interesting. There was a time times for your life. We describe yourself as a but Mian. Dan We know you was an author. We know you as a Buddhist. You were a monk for period. We know you're a surfer and then going back through your books, we now you've been a runaway. Has You. Sit there today. Had you see your identity? You know It feels like different dimensions being a dad I, mean you just you sort of? I think the first. Three kids Four, six eight. And the first couple of years. Like. Everything I knew about identity was dying, I was dying. And it was this weird experience of. The. New kind of joy in love. Being with your kid and I. Genuinely feel that I've felt this simultaneously liked I I was. Digging my own grave every day I had no identity annum. Sort of slowly. In a child. Parenting just profound in in a spiritual sense because you really, your life does become about tyrod -tising other people ahead of yourself, no matter what. I think no matter what kind of. Regiment I was putting myself in to try to do that Meditational Yoga or being on. Reading books about. Getting you know lessening the ego at an feeling more compassion for all business. No! Really I think I was able to live a selfish life. Do ever want with my tunnel and then all of a sudden. You know you don't have that choice and you have to really look at. What does it mean? To. Really put these guys as the priority and Is a bumpy road, but I feel like now that I'm here. You know an our oldest is eight. Is More like surrender. Slow to it where it's about big president with them and. And trying to balance that with you know getting some work done. But our lives are. Really chaotic and so every day. It's about getting that mindset of like this is going to be a challenge to get everything done and. While so I can either look at it as like. This sucks or visit a gray right. Expand Comfort zone yet again to that in this eighteen year marathon so So that's a long winded way of saying I don't even know what my identity is. I just tried it. And I think that. Is a daily question. I just trying to. Keep my head above water. And still do the things I love it. Share them with them. It's funny, though, isn't it? Because three your Jenny always Y- you went. Will I guess in reflection of your journey? You've always been apple two liable that part of your identity. From Your Education Growing up. Running Away Zoe's been this tag. You've been able to put onto it. And then today to say you still kind of trying to work that out with when you look at those times, and you are a guy who thinks a lot of stuff, and you ponder, and you meditate on things. What have you learnt? What have you learned about identity from that period of knowing and being able to liable in retrospect? Today not. Really being sure Dad's an absolutely critical part of that, and then the other stuff you do. What have you learned about identity in your journey on reflection, you know when you take when you get into Buddhism deeply in your in the monastery. You're really. Daily looking into that. How how does the identity form every day? And how is it form in a single sought, and you have the time meditating to really watch the settled nuances of that? And and yet you're. You've also on this new identity as like a monk who is separate from those crazy people out there who are like not taking the time to reflect and get. So you, so you kind of have this chip on your shoulder to and yet you're wear of that. You have this Meta analysis of light. I'm aware that I have ego about this that I've on one of the wise once. He's got Nas of the wheel of some time. And you're criticizing yourself so that in analyzing it but. There's no question that the whole model of like religion and shaving her head, wearing a robe of being part of this community. It gives you this new identity that. and. The catch with Buddhism is that it's an identity that is. EXPLICITLY FOR QUESTIONING IDENTITY End So. It's like you. You're using this raft to cross the shore of suffering, which is too much attachment. To Ego. And once as the Buddhist said once you get to that shore, it would be silly to carry the raft around on your head. You have to put it down. and. You know when I left the monastery. I definitely was searching for what? What is my new identity? And Surf. Bum became the thing that I wanted to do, and it's like once. You pick up that surfboard that becomes your identity. And I merged that into being a writer and. To writes about erode about my our journey and. I mean the truth is. At every one of those stages. It's felt just like being in the monastery where it's like. I feel. All detachment when one of my books comes out to doing well, and that creates all kinds of struggles inside myself I. WanNa be loved that I want to be accepted with each one and yet. With. I'm also observing that struggle. And how that brings up a lot of discomfort in myself just like when I was in a monastery and with each book. I feel like I. Unable to let go a little bit. But at the same time, you build confidence with each one two and you say well, you know people. People didn't. Say Go home never tried this again after I did my first book and say. You build confidence and I think that's just the paradox of Riddick. You know it's like we're all. It's important to build up confidence in what you do, and it's just to be human in society, and to feel like I can stand up for myself and. Go into room. Sell an idea to my editor work. Do those things and yet? The other side of it is, you can see how like. When you become too rigidly identified with Im Jamal Yoga's the author. An all your happiness is attached to that. You suffer so. I feel as though like I'm in the same boat I will. I was always I'm just I'm trying to analyze. Trying to be self aware of how. my identity is always shifting. An how I'm still at need that forty. Four an identity and an for feedback from the community where social animals and yet I hope that I'm developing a little more. Flexibility and slow like right now. I'm coming out of doing just. My new book is a fantasy novel. That has nothing to do serve. And I know it's GonNa be. There's a bunch of cognitive dissonance there of like, but am I. Who am I now? If I'm doing these other kinds of books, or who am I now now that I'm doing children's books and A. But you know. I really feel like. Life is about. Really opening up to. Your passions and finding purpose in sometimes that purpose doesn't sit a box or Doesn't none of us fit into a box. It's like social media accounts. WanNa. Put us in like you this your Gary, you're on, you do interviews on the radio. and. They have to be these sorts, but you know obviously you're much more nuanced person than just your public persona, and so I think. You've got made to stage now. picky about it out loud where I'm really exploring flexible. Trying to have a flexible identity and allowed for all the things that I want to pursue creatively and as a parent to come through and not be shy about sharing. Those different hearts myself Knowing that it will, it may be a little feel, a little scarier weird Because I'm not just. A good a surfer and that's all I. Live eat sleep and breathe. Put a link in the show Charton. Put a few things together I'm GonNa, try and produce era in merger reddish raft here to take us between a couple of places. I'll put a link in the show starts to your wall on Youtube. I watched your documentary, which is absolutely beautiful. It is just. Infect robot needs to have look at it. The editing is amazing. The way you'll music blends with your story with the visuals Shimao. That really is something and I. Wonder it's done so well. You know at the at the film festivals. The. This piece this piece in there I. WanNa tie back to build the raft and talk about that word paradox. You said You surfing the Santa Cruz Bryk and thank you describe it as being very territorial. And this is a place. Where are very tribal and some guys start screaming obscenities at you. And you said you will almost a yell back when you remember the story of the Summer I. Who asked Zen-master? Please teach me the difference between Heaven and Hell. And when I heard you talk about the would paradox and building a raft, it made me think about will. The ultimate is heaven and Hell. Can you just run that story for us? Absolutely I mean. The San Lies Story. Is One of these classic tales that gets retold. Over many generations in. Basically. This. Is Sam comes to amount Danny says teach me the difference between Heaven and Hell and the the monk. Looks at him and this time when Samurai were very revered. And respected an. Says why would I I teach this uncouth creek like you such a high teaching in your not worthy of that and the Samurai Raises Sword in his. He has. All the signs of anger you know bulging veins and whatnot, and he's about to slice the monk and. The monk stops him says way. That's how. The Samurai realizes how profound teaching is, and he he he bows down ingratitude. Among says that is hadn't. Really Beautiful Story and Out in the lineup You know how it was. taught in what do I do? Do I respond. And I was feeling a bunch of anger myself. Anger Insecurity and all these other things and And realized you know when you're carrying those things. Yeah, you're the one suffering. I still have to have his lesson every day with my kids like what sometimes they'll remind me like even when I'm. Right. Don't hit your brother. You know and I find myself getting really wild up angry and red, says the battle sometimes about four year old will. Say Dad. Why are you so angry? An. Angry 'cause you're actually little. You're not supposed to doing. That we talked about this. But I realized when I'm doing that. I'm. I'm taking a toll on my house for one, but I'm also. They're looking at me and say. They're not seeing where the bad ones. They're all of a sudden seeing themselves as the victims. Of Angry Dad's. Rather than hearing the lesson of life. Why don't we hit you know? Do you appreciate it when you get? Stay calm at I feel like. I have to learn this lesson every single day, but if I stay calm them a bit more patient than we have the conversation. The lesson gets through. They respect me I've I've haven't had this connection. So, it's it's just one of those teachings that is so profound and Still Come back to all the time, so you ran away went to Maui lent to surf. And one day you go from. The Time said that she didn't pretty good. You a competition. And so you'll egos started to grow, and you start to say actually I'm pretty good. So sometime later your route the back. You'll looking at picking up. Some grunts cutting on you and you let fly shoe. You Yell at them. And you catch yourself. I guess my question just by some what you're doing with the kids is how do we? had. We stay the pop because when I. What I saw in the documentary talked about it. It reminded me of the Matrix morpheus saints. Neo. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. and. I find this Jamila. A lot with podcasts softened with books and blogs videos, and there's a lot of stuff we know. But we don't actually walk the path. We know the path. We walk the path whether it be food or thinking mindset resilience courtesy. Smiling. What have you learned about the difference between knowing the path and walking the path, and actually trying to stay in the woking pot, and not just sitting in the knowing pot in ever gonNA, walk the path perfectly. Know there's that model outs. self-improvement or spirituality where? There's an end goal and once you hit it. You're sort of perfect year. You never make another mistake, but I think that's the best. Thank you I, think we're always on an ever evolving. Pass. Of Growth and expansion in learning and there's always. I don't think Buddha Hood is is absurd finished product. So. You know we were always going R-, always making mistakes and we become. We become what we judge and. A. Human experience that think. We need that you need the fall down and make a mistake and and. You know, get angry once in a while and see why it didn't work. And hopefully just do it in a way where. When you become. When you when you do know that pass. The! The selling down moments are. You hope that they're not disastrous to others. But sometimes I think we just have to be compassionate with ourselves in realized that. The past is really about falling off of it and getting back on and trying again and and And you over correct you under correct than up. There's no, but there's no perfect. It's just it's. It's really about setting your compass. Is this little as a set your compass compassionate? You always end up on the best island. But which sounds Nice, but when you set your compass to compaction, it doesn't mean that that you're perfect. Just because that's where your compasses that you're going to run into icebergs in rocks, there's going to be storms and. As you do that if if your mindset. Is Well. This is about. Learning and growth than those mistakes are the way you. The way that you get. Way You approve a little bit so that when somebody else? Is Making in. Maybe your child is making the same stakes. Ubaid you can, you can help them out. But A. Yeah, there's no. There's no perfect you know and. I don't know I. Don't know what else to say the. Other than Nino. I think a lot of us. WanNa. Give you know. Things are trendy now, so it's easy to be especially when you're in the business of helping, other people learnt to meditate or writing books about it. It's easy to become a preacher and not do the work to. and. I say like with say with mindfulness practice. It's like. The Talking about mindfulness practice doesn't really help you all you have to actually. Do it. And so that's that's the walking the path by its front allotted. Some People Love to talk about surfing and get lots of boards and things, but not really go out, but she. Just out. You don't get any better. That way does no debt particularly in your early part of your journey. You're a guy who is see she. Seeking a freedom was important to. You is seeking freedom. and. During the documentary in some of the interviews I've heard you say that you know people. A lot of people have a desire to find freedom. And we normally in my mind associated with freedom to work when you want. The job you want, do what you WanNa do had you? WanNa do it. We speak of freedom in terms of things we could do, but then I hate you. Talk about freedom of the mind. Which I thought was really interesting. Is that I think a lot of people struggle with having freedom in mind? Head we do that Jamal. How do we find that freedom in Erin minding Aaron thoughts. What have you learned about that? We WanNa, find freedom and circumstances and set it up just right, or it's like you've got the you've got the perfect house. The perfect little beach and the wet know. Were you have the waves to yourself and? There's nothing wrong with pursuing that and there's if you get there, there isn't. There are. Lots of practical. Ways! That circumstances can help you feel more free, no doubt amid. You're working hundred hour weights, and you're getting paid less than minimum wage or something. It is difficult more difficult for you so this I don't want discount that circumstances are important. But I think as a society we. We. We put out of all our eggs in that basket of seeking out street in the circumstantial Censo- like about having that convertible in the board house in the In the right. But. All that stuff is constantly changing. It's bound to go bad at some point. It's like the best laid plans fall apart, you know wealthy people are often unsatisfied with their wealth. You know it's like everything. Everything has a every year has a Yang in circumstantial world. But inside your mind. It's a bit different. In that. You, know if you. Really take the time. Every day. To Do these basic practices of watching your brass and letting your mind. Signs. Some space between. The pounding waves of thought there really is. This sort of Fettered Bliss that is. Has Sages throughout? The ages have talked about it as your natural birthright. and. Is this Or John Masters Call it a wish fulfilling gem that it's like it's always been yours and. It's the most obvious thing when he when you even get a glimmer of it like why have I been such an idiot? Not Seeing that I have joy inside. And, even now saying that I feel like a fake segment that because. I'm so busy with. Being a dad and work, and what not that? I don't get enough time always to tap into that. But at times when I've really dedicated. Time to to doing the practices. Of finding internal. Peace. It's really real. That you can. Tap into your original sorta birthright of of of this natural state of bliss that is in your mind in your heart, whatever you WanNa. Call it! At that, but it takes practice, it takes work. Again anything else, and there is for sure like this you can. You don't have to do it by any one school like it doesn't mean you have to cross your legs. Their loud is for ten hours a dozen. There are all kinds of. Artists Stumble on this surfers people out in Many things they give us all poetry. But I do think there's something special about the stability. That you can find in In Meditation. And sort of the the mastery of mind that you can find with A. Structured practice. Gym I think that's really important. Because if you don't have that stability, you said it's still even if you're finding these ecstatic moments like wind and sex poetry. Who Does love all that? You can you can does are all windows doorways to the same kind of joy, but. This this quiet kind of practice that. I, think these yogis throughout the ages developed I. THINK IS A. It's like a stable way of. Having it available. that. I've been talked into AS A. Felt myself is is really powerful. I think a couple of seasons go. We had a guy on the shows cold. Akai Nevada he right Fianna. And he told us the story of the Buddha and the second era, and I've heard you talk about the second Arrow and I've got a couple things just to ask you about if you can fill seen on. Your take on the secondary and. It seems like that Second Arrow, is that gap between the pounding wives of thought you're talking about, so it seems like there's something in that if you could elaborate on it and then. In the same vein. How have you used that with your writing? Because I suspect there were times, and on now there are times when you've lost vibe on your writing and. Gone through that whole thing about comparison and concern and worries stuff. Give us your take on the second Darrow is, is that in your mind that gap in between the panting wives? And how have you applied that to your own site writing? Yeah Yeah. I love that story of the Second Arrow basically You know the Buddhist talking to all the monks. And as as licensed to, and he's saying you guys, you do slides, mindfulness, stash and everything else And you might notice. You still have some pain in your life, and you're still have disatisfaction. So. What's the difference between people who? Practice by the tation and this path been an ordinary person and. He says well, you know the ordinary person who's not mindful gets shot with an Arrow and feel the pain of the era. and. and. And then beat his breast and laments. freaks out about it and complains. You know who shot that era at Y. always with arrows sent it triggers triggers you into as many stories of like. Why does life suck? And all of that the says is the second era. You basically jabbing yourself with the second half when you go on and on into these. Stories. So the minds will want still feels pain, but it's just one era. And Yeah I mean that's the story of our days I. Think is like. As. I was saying before with my kids. I'm getting. Shot with Arrows all day where they say if I just take the IPAD away from them, they can start arriving on the floor at. I could say okay. This is a Bummer I. DON'T WANNA deal with Tantrum. But here it is I'm just GONNA wait. I'm just GONNA. Wait so it passes and say you now added. I told you that I've had time is up and. Or I can. Eat out start shouting at him and then go into a big like Courtney session about. My life is so hot. Right, now why can't get anywhere bent? Whatever whatever the stories that day or like? And, that's just a bunch of. Two three four. I might get into ten Eros. and. But the window the. Point is. Our sears, our emotional systems are faster than we are. So by the time you've noticed year, afraid or angry. You're already afraid or angry. You can't beat yourself. Consciously you have to train to find that gap so That's why you have to forgive yourself. When you notice, you've shot ten more house. You know it's like okay. It's fine by motion. System is faster than I am so. I've I've done it. And then you sort of deescalate from their attack can go and take some breasts down. Travis. Try to restart. But the gap between the waves that you're talking about is if you really. Are! Getting good at this way like able to watch how you react in every situation. Becoming kind of dangerous surfer of your mental waves, yet you can. Find that space of light here goes on about to react. and. I'm not going to take a breath Just realized this is uncomfortable. That discomfort is and that's okay. And then. Decide, then you sort of in the position of like will now if I could fix the problem from a calm in a calm way. Let me do that. If I can't fix it. I'm just GONNA. Let go move on You know like the Dalai Lama says if you have. If you have a problem and you can fix it, don't worry about it. If you have a problem at, you can't fix it. Don't worry. The worry is the second era. It's like if you if you can succeeding, go do the thing. Fix It if you can't. The worry doesn't help you at all is just going to happen so You know how I use that in writing I guess. Is. That, it's really like anything writing as hard like most jobs are and so. I can if I have a deadline or something. I'm on procrastinating Faking about how bad it's going to be when I have to go, sit in front of my computer and I'm already tired. That just adds a bunch of suffering, but if I just take the fake out, can start typing. I'm okay. And San goes for like once the the. the book is coming out is up things like you have all these expectations in hopes for it? And A. Never, met. It's like you never become a I haven't yet determined the. Beaten Stephen King or something selling books so. You you're not gonNA. You're going to be disappointed on some level and I guess seeing that is like well. That's okay, I'll be disappointed. And I'll just when I feel that I won't turn it into a big story about like. How I've sailed how it's just like well. That is the mindsets itself up to want more and when that comes, that's an era and you just great it about tear than say all right moving on now. Did a Ninja Sipa of you'll mental wives that will be on a t-shirt by Friday. That's cool that is. A needs. Of you'll mental as Daddy's going on the studio will that's gulled. Semi that semi side I would have it up if I if I take you back. Because there are people who he is like all of us, we hear this, so we hear about mindfulness, and we hear about Zen and Buddhism, but it's kind of. Got Right back out of the shower. They can't see that in their identity and we fear it. We can't see it. We done in Bryce it yet. What's really fascinated by a kid growing up you? Dad was in the military. which is how you ended up going to Hawaii when he got deployed there. And you born into Yoga see you got this. Dad's in the military in a spiritual family. You have surrounded by Yoga. Had added you dead. Navigate that dichotomy like? Did you think that's it was? It seems quite odd to have all those things wrapped up while he's on deployment so much so that your son can observe all that and it can influence. He's upbringing. How did you dead? Navigate or surf that dichotomy yeah hints phenomenal personalizing. I was thinking about. A passed away a few years ago. In his ability to really be himself. But a little break up into of C sections one I think. When you when you are a military brat or in the military, I think you realize how many people don't fit the mold of military person who like the stereotype. And So I really I always bristle against A. I'm a pretty progressive guy politically and like I'm all for. For example, we're having these huge George, floyd protests which. A against police, brutality and And sometimes that gets turned into. All cops are like a brutal racist now and. That always rubs me the wrong way like. Do you know like how many of these people actually know? Cops are live I've lived in or or or like. No military people in a lot of my dad's friends in the military works, immigrants, or black or gay. A lot of his. Most of his good friends in Didn't fit like this tough Guy Republican. Kind of. Image and And so. So I think in some ways. It wasn't as hard for for him to be a little bit different than than you'd expect A. End. And then, but also I think she. was just one of those guys who. You know we come from a long line of soldiers like. His Grandfather had fought. In the wars in Europe, and then my grandfather was in World War Two. And then, but he also grew up kind of the Bohemian did he was? He was raised Catholic, but was aggressor. He went to jazz ships. He served A lot of people who ended up in the military have that kind of. Diverse background than their adventure seekers, and they had been up saying hey i. don't know what else to ago. This looks like from getting on a submarine and And so But. Having said that. I think it was difficult for him. At times, he sell torn in different directions and when he was sending like. It out people underneath him to desert. Storm and he didn't really believe in the war felt deeply conflicted. I remember what I think. That was one of the reasons he he wrestled with drinking and all the stress that So. But, what that has done to his kids, I think is that. You don't eat out. I really strives not to put myself in any one box of. Of identity, and not just you know even though I, I mostly identified with progressive politics sometimes, I disagree and I I. I. Try to be one of those people who's like a critical thinker who doesn't say hey. We always have to tow. The tribal party line hair like every person has such a unique. Imprint? And what makes humanity beautiful is our ability to when we really live that and. IN DEBATE IN? Out Differ and so I think I bristle against this social media culture where it feels like. Sometimes whether no matter who you are, if you step outside of that. A image that people think you are in public like is almost like a tendency for the tribe to kind of beat you down and put you back in line. At A. I think we really have to watch that as humans right now because there's this sort of. We're all living this outward online persona. and that. Can Be good and have value, but it also We can fall into these More easily I think fall into these real. Tribal. Limited? Ways of being a couple of things to straight together here, Jamal. You talked about the day your dad came home and said on leaving. and Uh suspected when you think back at that, that's a very traumatic emotional When Your Dad, who you think is a fabulous guy. Goes I'm him gone. And then you talk about the fact that. A negative thought about yourself attached to other past negative thoughts about yourself. And your term was. It connects the same negative real estate in your Bryant compounds. Did that Hell Long. Did that compound view you? Dad Leaves. There's an emotional moment there. And all sorts of stories three of mine as a kid. Hen, long did that compound you and at what point were you able to break the disrupt that pathway? To create a different story, which helps you deal with it? Learn from it. and. Take something for the future. I mean I didn't know I wasn't aware at all that that. Those synopsys had tied together so. The anger at my dad from that moment the story that ran from it. Started running through it with your kind of that relationships are doomed or And and. Also. the this the. Anger that I had. Toward becoming a father as well. It's it was it was a slow at winding to that because I had to go through like seventy kids just to sort of. Rebellion feel of just living through my emotions and trying to make sense of them, and that was part of running away. And then But when I did run away was my daddy can't get man. We ended up having this time in Hawaii where we we felt. A reconnection to the water. and. It's only in retrospect having learned a lot about neuroscience since you're framing in terms of pathways in a really writing fear project I learned how. Memories, do have real estate. And each time you do, remember a traumatic. Experience. You're actually tapping that original real estate, but your altering it. You're altering it. And compounding it with with. This state of mind you're in as you remember it so I think when he and I were out in the waves sixteen and he came to get me. I was. We were that was positive exposure that I had had with him in years of exposure to. Each Other. and that this real exposure? The ocean or something. Like Klay for can provide was healing, but I didn't know you know any of that was happening was only later at writing it and writing was another way that that healing happened. I remember Writing Saltwater. Buddha cried through those first chapters. AD! And not being a healing, then seeing his reaction to the book of feeling sad about it. About an regretting some of the things that happened, but ultimately being really proud. Of made. A not being part of the healing. And then. And then it was really when I you know with my. Current wife's. My by aiming. The only married current wise makes it sound like married a bunch of women. And plans to marry anymore. But. But. When I met Avian was terrified to propose. Was Thinking about it. and. It was interesting I was at the same time I was I was researching this neuroscience I was pushing myself to surf bigger waves because I was reading the fear project was trying to get out there, and it was really getting over this fear of Surfing Mavericks I. Never Really got over, but I was able to do it successfully. And that was like a nuclear bomb that went off in my consciousness when I went down the face of at first Babic's waves. Where was like something from my childhood? Mice fear about that wave broke and it was like. Oh, you can break these fears. These things are in there. Was that real experience? Literally? When I came in that way I said on the I can do it I can propose the amy I can get through this. At that point. I was conscious that I had this real sheer of commitment. AB. And it was, it was palpable. So anyway, that's just to say. It's been a process. It's a process. I'm still in doubt but But I do feel this after many years of feeling like. My relationship with my dad was troubled. I now, really look back on our relationship with fondness and would love and don't feel I. Don't feel that trauma. Would I sell? As he was walking out the door. I have more understanding of where he was out and really. Admire in many ways how he lived. It leads you under something. I heard you talk to Dan. Harris about on his podcast, which is a really really good show. And that was. It was a terrific interview. Danza Big Ben about show. Hi, Dan we HARRA. The Harris Hair Haranadha. you. You told this beautiful story. About it's a menu met. And is that she agenda behind it. And he said to you very said. No probable. Way that story originate, and why does that statement means so much to you? That was. A monk that I became good friends with. THEM SO on. So The elevator version is is I. I've been to together with a woman for a few years of. Same deal I'd had a bunch of its. Commitments Years and then I'd finally come. Around was ready to commit What I got there. She said I've out of there and done that at a time when we were supposed to India together. And she was. indian-american. And so I ended up going anyway and was just a wreck. never felt more heartbroken by lives and never felt like. My life has just never gonNA amount to anything. But I made it up to the Himalayas. was trying to do. Of Journalism to get ready for graduate school and also some meditation. At Iran, a on. And gradually I learned that he was. Really grieving the loss of his family because he had come over. The Himalayas at age eleven to Ordain with the Dalai Lama. Hoping that he would then. Be Able to. Still keep in touch with his family. But which as the political situation with China wrapped up? He was never able to get back and he he didn't. have any APP had lost touch with them for fifteen years didn't know if they were all right. Two's very sad about this, but he was simultaneously the most joyful person I'd ever bet he just every every minute. He just exuded beamed. And yet, sometimes he would cry as he talked about his family. And I really felt like I was grieving, and I was just depressed, pissed off and angry at I I wanted to know. How Hubby's together. As, I was at a point in my practice, where I really wasn't I was using meditation as a way to sort of push emotional I was had this zen warrior approach route is like. It's about. Jetting tops for light. Eliminating emotion. And so I was doing a lot of meditation, but I don't think I was really contacting. Any of the real emotion I was just wanting it to go away. and. So? One day domino hiking the hills. Above this town McLeod Ganges and he was looking at the snow it. He got emotional Vicky about the snow into bat and I said. I saw. That he was getting teary, I said I'm I'm just so sorry that I can't. We can't find themselves and. He started laughing and he does. JEMMA Hugh Friday This fatty said no problem. And that? We laughed about it and. It was such a profound. Statement in one that I just realized that I wasn't incorporating into my life at all, because my very sad was a huge problem. It was my main righteous wanted to south and But it was after that that I ended up going on the tree, and it was church retreat ever that I ended up just. Bawling through the whole thing. Days Three. Is something cracked and I realized. That I just I couldn't stop crying I didn't it will again? It wasn't like this conscious thing like so told me that, and now I'm GonNa. Go on retreating cry. It just sort of those things happened together, but all the while I had that. Sort of mantra in my in my head. This very sad, no problem it was really helpful, and maybe he just gave me permission as this guy. Who was this very high bunk. Who to still have emotion like you don't have to. Being peaceful doesn't mean you don't. You're not Shearman? So. That was so helpful it still. Still really helpful to me. We've gotta eat against coming up on the show. Called Beth, Kinison, who wrote a Beautiful Book Cool Wabi Sabi and is a Japanese tomb that Japanese have a hard time. Actually explaining, but now what it is, but it's have a hard time explaining what it is. And in her book, Wabi, Sabi Beth talked about. Washing dishes without doing anything else being intensely in that moment. Noticing water in your hands, the feeling of the soap. The sound of the water flowing. and IT S he's A. It's a beautiful book that I porta. and. It made me think about you when I read that passage Jamal. Now we're going to talk today. Do. You have a practice like that that brings you back to that that gap between the pounding of the waves it. Do you have that that ritual? You have that process we go back to something to. Santa yourself with the census to experience that with the Japanese cooled Wabi Sabi. Yes, absolutely I mean I think I feel lucky to have lots of them. I mean certainly serving his one. but that feels like too easy because it's. It's one of those things that you sort of separate from the rest of live. It's like now I. Get to relax. Go Surfing, but. I've seen. Cooking has always been one of those things for me aware. Go to. Really. Just, sort of chopped onions in. An have experienced this real Shield really connected to. The grounded aspect of of being alive like. Soul sensory experience that helps foods just good. You're smelling everything and I but I definitely have moments With food. Where did that full process of whether? You're growing it? Cooking it eating it. It's such a chewed in of itself is like. A mindfulness? Is the full package Gino Fit 'cause it connects us. To To the cycle lives and deaths and. If you really WANNA burst in. You know. I guess the joy of of of the cycle of lots seems like. Cooking is in and eating. Our IT and Here on. Court during core gene. We've been getting back to that because we can't go out to eat as much and. It's been really lovely to. Every night. In my wife and I've been just going through the cookbooks cooking with our kids and it's something. Amazingly like? Kids really. They just they click in two different mode around food. Our kids do we have three wild boys. They cannot focus together on one project. Calmly. Usually at all. But if we do like at? We do cooking project. Sometimes, the whole family will be in there. In a really beautiful present way. Ensure House the time something breaks in one of the brothers bites each other or something, but it still on I'm amazed. I'm amazed how many times like? On most mindful moments, present moments together are often. Yeah measuring flower. Beating eggs. They seem to be a poem or a piece from a poet Rumi that seems to be at the core of your being and a lot of your writing. and. The poet Rumi wrote. We are not a drop in the ocean. We are an ocean in a drop. Why Y that statement. What's that mean to you? What does it resonate so much with Jubail well? There's there's the amazing kind of. Quantum aspect of where you just. Physics aspect where we're always trying to make sense of this. Idea that. There is no inherent south as we know it like. Here we are. Now I have a physical body identity. Around that body around the memories and thoughts that I have. And yet every day. Whatever it is that I think I am is exchanging out with the natural world. Right like I. Eat a carrot, some of that care it becomes and. And some moves back into nature than also we learned that our our atoms are constantly being switched out. So, what is it the? There's very little actual batter, sh-. Jamal comes out this little ball. That ball of manages expands and then dies and. And that? Matters, the same. The matter has completely been switched out lots of times over by the time Jamal is is. A returns to the Earth or my body returns they had so, what was it made me? That's the mystery right it was. It was the set of of Said of memories for shore at a set of actions, but also. and, perhaps like A. A, A mind streamers soul as the. Buddhist like the intensive. but But it's clear not getting under the spiritual around on a physical route, physical level that We really are in his continuous flow with. All of reality much like a wave has. A distinct look and you can follow that waves across the sea, and then it breaks on the ocean. Waves life and say that was a distinct way, but all the while the wave was just the ocean. It was. Energy moving through the media of Ocean, and it looks like it has all these distinct qualities in you can name it, but actually always was the entire ocean and and that seems to be the way that. Just reality is like everything is a way that actually down to the quantum level. Everything is moving as a particle or wave, and it's largely empty space. That we that we don't even understand at this point so I think it's a very satisfying quote on this. On an intellectual level of what we understand the paradox of being. In, roommate seemed to know that. End In lots of of a mystic have seemed to sense that. We are at once. The drop and the ocean. And And that every drops. Contained sort of. The. The. The potential of Of a of the whole. It contains the same basic essence. And And of course you can take that into real weird. Quantum, levels! Will maybe there are universes inside each Ataman? And I would not get into just mind boggling staff that is beyond my realm, but I've always found that somebody's likes to dabble in the quantum realm is really satisfying. Way of sending that up poetically and then at, but it's also. It's really what the White Ruby was looking at. It was like I think more. Of like a co on that was getting you to experience yourself as. An question the identity. And that's like more like zag level of like. Trying to break us out of our entrenched patterns at experience of that Satori you're like. This more here. There's more of. I don't have to be so locked in to my story of suffering. Do you know I could talk to you for hours Jamal I. Find Your stuff, so thought provoking Just encourage you to stop Ponda think re-address. A very conscious of your time and. You've got a new book coming out. wishes kids book. It's your first kids book right and it's coming at the end of June. Tell us about mop, yes. Really I realized that I. What I was trying to say a lot of words in Migra books. I could probably distill into a handful. And and. Actually mocked him to be just because one of the other things. I like Wabi Sabi things I like to do is doodle. I disliked to draw little stick figures in waves and things. Senator Dry, this one character, big curly hair like I had its kid and. I just really like drawing him, and then he just took on a character and live before I knew I had the story about this kid mop. WHO's nicknamed? Mop 'cause with them all But it keeps getting into. Big Emotions at school that Rodman to trouble. and. And so he learns what I learned I wish I'd learned at age seven or eight, but did until I was twenty that. Are lotions moves like waves. You can ride. The good ones happy feelings come and when they do absolutely shredded enjoy celebrated. But when those bad feelings come, that's okay. Storm ways or natural and. But you don't have to ride the storm wet right you can be. What did I. Say before the Ninja Surfer fear beds away. You get Ninja surf of your mental wives. You can you can duck dive on you can. and. If you do happen to get caught one, you could not fight it and relax, and so that really mopped learns that Metaphor. In August Satin. It clicks for him, but he can go back to school and. Anna and it's again and things. Don't go perfectly for he still gets angry. It's really like, but it's that lesson Saddam very said no problem. Is is sort of translating that sure kids and has absolutely stunning are by lies. Stick figures did. Didn't. With the publishers, so we were last defined. That Matthew Allergies A. artists in southern California. He did a really stunning job. With it, so I'm just having some fun with mop in the books I hope I can keep doing. We have a second one coming out basically like eight months later. And I just love it so where where do people check it out? Jim Moscow. There's a Lotta lead. Different Books an Yvette. You being doing quite a bit rotting since we last saw you in two thousand seventeen I think we caught up Where's the HUB FRILL? You're stuffy books or bet you you work. the DACA. Was the West simple? People J. A., R. M. A., L. Y. O.. G. I S. Dot net Jamal Yoga's dot net has. All my books and Mother good steps. You can watch the DOC on Youtube Right now during quarantine, the the producers put up there for free so. That's easy to find there and But yet mop is available anywhere. Books are sold. As are all my books. I think Dan way you guys are to that you can. You can order online or get him at your local bookstore so if your local store doesn't have until, tell him. This thing right will. We'll send you I A A T shirt when we've got the might. Ninja surfer. Ninjas surfer of your mental wives I think it's called out, thank. You might say good to catch up with the agree slice of book. In fact, the Curtis all the books and the doctor. It's beautiful. I'll put a loadings show nights and might we'll keep in touch great. Thank you so much great. Chatting against the radio, show. What did you get a massive headache? Call down. What's the so wash? So. What is my favorite part of that interview? Wendy's shed that story of the summary and zen-master. And the Difference Between Heaven and Hell. I thought that was. Gold is how simple and happen found that story was that it all has to do with their mind now I think thing that's. If, we look at Jamal and we didn't go into this show because we cover off in the last show, but he's very big on meditation. And I didn't. I intentionally didn't go down that offramp. But for those that are interested in meditation. Do you remember Giovanni? Defeats men, indeed. His what about a year ago was the last episode of one of seasons episodes two three, which Ma Bane to the end of season five. Yep. Anybody interested in meditation should listen to that shows a cracker in Giovanni talks about demystify it and talks about Ole all the different ways that we can gal about finding. Mindfulness and meditation, which is what Jamal is very very big on beacon. You can that in his previous episode? But, I thought. I thought. We would close with something that sits between Kinda. What Meditation Brings You? And the story of the summer I in mass of the differences between Heaven and hell that when you could find that place. I think that brings you freedom, but when you. He would freedom what I've been pondering talking to Jamal. As we think, freedom is freedom to do what you want when you want. But I think the biggest thing that Jamal brings to the show and Giovanni. The story that he told is when you could free your mind the burden of the past. or Opinions. And you can free your mind the heaven and Hell it's taking control of all your thoughts and your mind I think that. Is True Freedom. Among junk radio show well. We should probably think about closing out the show. Wide I, we throw the word freedom at Ula and see what you can come up with has. The first time I heard that song was my first ever radio station I worked at and I heard that song and I nearly fell off the chair. That is such a good song. But unfortunately I. Don't think it's US and it's probably a little. Bit Cliche Yeah Yeah. What else you got! A Now there's a classic. DOMINANT SKIN! Free But I. Don't know if they're audiences old enough to remember. Era, of free good, is it sad yuppie. Very. Seven other correct. What are you got? That'd be in your wheelhouse. That's that's that's brought up my alley absolutely, but apparently not yours. You're not much on a meal. Young Fan. I just don't see the attraction I mean that's a cracking song. Don't get me wrong if you're in the car with the windows down some of. You'd you'd crank it, but it's just I just wouldn't buy. And Neil young album put. There are millions of people lose. The plants on it sounds like it's best. That particular song sounds very. Let's do it. People say. Talk. Way Don Tonight. I'm Marie. The MOJO radio show is produced and recorded in the basement of food. Sound the law tips and tools to get your Mojo working. Check us out on facebook at the MOJO radio show or online at the MOJO radio show dot com to help us get better and get more people the opportunity to touch up them Ojha. You can now find us on unpatriotic. Follow the links on the front page of our website and for a coffee two a month you'll get bonus material and a copy of expressive hits nineteen. The best of the MOJO radio show. In the meantime to Polish your next radio production checkout through sound dot com Dodi you the about Gary. See Gary was dot com. And to book me Go to Andrew Pieces Dot Com. Andrew Pizzas speaking. See next time.