40 Years of Broadcasting The Weather
On the outside looking in living in the midwest during winter months can be brutal. You've got frigid temperatures that can take your breath away blizzards that will stack the snow over the roof of your house. But today's guests knows a thing to about mid west winters. Tip of the iceberg. Tom skilling has been the chief meteorologist WGN TV in Chicago since nineteen seventy eight. Now, if you're counting that's forty years in that span of time, it can feel like the media in television industry can change as much as the weather will talk about these changes and so much more with legendary broadcast meteorologist, Tom skilling I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia, and this is the weather podcasts top. Thank you so much for joining us marshal. It is an absolute pleasure. And finally to meet you, you know, funneled your work for for years, but we've never had a chance to actually visit. So I'm flattered you'd ask and advised me on here and I'm looking forward to talking with isn't, isn't that amazing? I know we've shared a couple of emails and almost gas pass a few times when I was AMS president but have not actually had a chance to speak with each other. So it's it's my honor. It's an honor for me to be. Able to talk to you right back at you Marshall. It's it's a real honor here in by the way. I think what you do in educating the public on meteorology is just amazing. Your Forbes column, all of your outreach is is amazing. So thank you for including me in this podcast, it's going to be fun. Well, I think that first of all, thank you so much, but really it's, it's my honor your legend in meteorology, and it's someone we've wanted to have on the weather podcasts. And so I want wanna take a journey through your career. We're gonna start at the beginning and then town of midway through talk a little bit more about sort of your WGN years. And then I wanna get your thoughts on a variety of topics at the end. But I wanted to dive in to sort of just telling the listeners where you grew up in, what was it like growing up in those midwest winters? Well, tell you Marcia was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Don't remember it only live there two years. My folks are natives of the Pittsburgh area, and then my dad. Was transferred out commuted into New York everyday from New Jersey. So I lived thirteen years in a commuter suburb Westfield, New Jersey, and then my dad was transferred out to the mid west in nineteen sixty five. So the whole family moved out here and it's been a delight. I worked grownup and worked here all those years. I went up to the university of Wisconsin. That's where I studied from seventy seventy four and worked in Milwaukee, three years worked in Jacksonville, Florida for a year. But basically I've been here in the mid west and I've been here at WGN since nineteen seventy eight. And you know, Marshall, I needn't tell you. I tell our young interns in the young people with whom I work, who are always amazing if you had to parachute into a profession at a fascinating time in its history. The past fifty years in meteorology has been stunning. I, it's just. Amazing. You know, one of my dear friends and he was finishing his doctorate when I was up at the university of Wisconsin is Louie Seleny and. Yes, indeed. And another past president of the m s and of course they head of our weather service. But you know, I remember we would gather on the fourteenth floor of the space science and engineering building. We call ourselves the facts rats when I was going to school back in the early seventies and as an undergrad, I'd be there with the grad students and marveling at their command of the subject. And wondering if ever there would be a moment where I had anything close to their level of expertise as we discussed the impending storm in its development. I learned so much in those though sessions, but I say to Louis, when I see him now Louis, would you have imagined this profession would have come as far as it has in terms of remote-sensing modeling it. It's been an amazing revolution as series of revolutions that we've all been party to. Yeah, I wanted to actually ask you about that. Tom. I actually spent a little time. There at the university of Wisconsin. Oh, probably about a year and a half to go. I was invited up to give a talk, and I was, I think at the top of that building that you were talking about, it was really an amazing view, but you you were there. It was kansin during a time when things like satellites were still new weather presentation software was being developed. So I was curious what the energy like is young meteorologist at that time just to see some of these things really in their infancy that we sort of take for granted now. Oh, your show your show accurate on that, you know, that was an amazing. It was a kind of a scary time during the Vietnam war that there was a lot of instability on that campus and all related to the war. But I kind of kept by sanity by hanging out in the the weather, building there and with fellow meteorology students. And I'll tell you something we would sit in classes and watch Dr. Bernard Asumi was there. Of course, the FAA. Other of the geosynchronous orbit weather satellite Madison. The w campus is considered the birthplace of satellite meteorology, and indeed it is. It is one of my professors at Florida State University was Eric Smith who working closely with Verne Sumi. Yes, it's incredible. We sham and watched land falling hurricanes. Real time at this would seem amazing young people in our profession today, but we had never seen that before. And of course they develop a kite up there, which was, you know a system that naval you to lay atmospheric parameters on top of satellite imagery and understand the mechanisms that were driving the weather's development. We had not seen that before it was in stunning. And in very real sense all the databases we use today have at their core, you know, mckiness which is still in use at the national weather service. Sure, sure. It's, it's stunning. But you know, I met Dr sue me one time at a gathering Christmas gathering years later, and I said, you know, you really were visionary. How in the world did you understand is completely as you did, what having these space platforms would allow us to see how we could remotely sense the atmosphere. And of course he was very much in favor of all the countries of the world talking to their respective governments, getting them involved in the launching of satellites and heave envisioned a world in which we would see every weather system from birth to death, which of course has become a total reality and we're able to remotely sensed the poorly observed. Oceanic areas in initialized are incredible numerical models bottles that get better and better with each passing day and here. So it was. A lot of stuff going on up there at the time and just amazing. I can't imagine being there at that time. We're talking with Tom skilling WGN TV chief meteorologist who celebrated his fortieth anniversary with WGN TV homework. Tell you something. Homework, but I, you know, I have to give credit to my colleagues here the Weather Channel as well. They, they do nice job of doing research and allow me to come in and talk to great. I mean, let's just keep. Can I keep it real with the listeners for a second. Tom skilling is a legend in the field. Is I can't imagine that that's not the case if you're listening to this podcast. I mean, I grew up in the Atlanta, Georgia area, Tom and GM being one of the super stations we could get you in in Georgia. So I mean, I grew up watching you at times. I know one of my good friends Allen seals even worked with you for time. There's a cop. Yeah. What are you any good story Allen St., seal stories. He's current president or outgoing president of the. Oh, tell you something. It's been fun to watch that career takeoff in Allan carries the same passion toward this profession that you and I and so many of our colleagues have. There's a unique love and affection. I think, for science in for the way nature works among people in our line of work and Alan definitely possessed that, and his career has been a testament to just the what an amazing Graf of a grasp of the subject and passion for it. That Allen exudes. You know, something else I used to get together with John Coleman here who did the weather on the local station and is he was envisioning putting the Weather Channel together. We would get together after our respective ten o'clock shows here and go to a little restaurant in downtown Chicago. We remember one time Kerry Carey. The famous legendary baseball announcer walk by. Yes, he walked by one night as we were all sitting there and I'd be there with John and Pam Penniston his article, his artist, and I remember he was frustrated because he did the weather on good Morning America by the lack of time he had and I one day John, there's going to come day when there's a twenty four hour Weather Channel and we're gonna have all the time we need. And he kind of looked at the curiously in several weeks later during the subsequent dinner, he said, you know that whether channel you were talking about, I've been working on putting that together, he would do. He was approached by the today, show to go to work for them and do the weather and had a handshake agreement with his management here in Chicago that if an at work opportunity came along, they would let him go. But the several general managers had passed since this end shake agreement had been reached. And when he went into the today show's after me, they said, well, I, we don't recognize that agreement. You have to stay here on our local show. Oh, so he would do the evening news stay up all night. Get ready for good Morning America and then get on planes to New York or wherever where he would talk to Madison Avenue folks and proposed the idea of a Weather Channel. And he did a demo tape in Merv Griffin studio. The first one that laid out what a Weather Channel might look like because nobody at that time had any idea what a Weather Channel would be. So we went out there spent a whole weekend, produce a half hour Taeb. And I remember thinking, wow, how are we gonna pull this off in real time what it takes two days to make a half hour, Tim o. tape, but clearly it's happened. You know, the Weather Channel is a phenomenon and you know, I don't know what happened with John on the climate change issue. I, he and I would have some very Frank discussions about that today. I wanna talk to you later about some of that because as you will know, as I do former president of EMS and you being such a sort of Nikon in our field, they're sort of some divergence even in the broadcast community on the whole notion of weather presentation versus climate. I know. Yeah. Let's say that because I wanna I wanna I wanna that towards the end, but I'm going to circle back to that. I, I want to kind of get to something when you talking about Alan that I'm curious about with you because I know you actually started some on air work as early as age fourteen, but what made you want to pursue? Meteorology. And did you know even if that point that you always wanted to be on camera Marshall? I had no idea. I never shut out to be a media, whether type never from a little boy. I had paper routes, and I made four or five dollars a week and miam- vision was to put a bedroom radar set in and I even wrote Bendix corporation and you know, to get the price stats, it was so foolish to think that with my four dollar a week paper road, I might be able at some point to buy a radar, but I used to buy whether quit, I went through the Belfort instrument company, catalogs and sciences soci-. It's and I used to dream about the Instrum. I was going to buy. And as it turns out I only had enough money to buy a sling, say cropper and a, you know, a barometer in a mid match their monitor. I couldn't afford the the really cool stuff. And I remember my price possession was the wind scope. Anna monitor and win vein, which my dad talk to somebody and got it half price. It was one hundred dollars at the time. We got it for fifty dollars and I put that on my roof and at any rate when we moved from New Jersey out here to the midwest used to get the daily weather map out of the office of the superintendent of documents. It was a daily weather map publication, beautifully done done by the by the United States weather bureau at that time and subsequently renamed the weather service of, but I get it the next day because it was mailed from Washington, and you get a surface map of five hundred milligrams chart. And as young person, we didn't have the internet. There was no way to get an upper air chart, and I used to wonder when I watch. I looked at the weather pages in the New York Times, the Newark evening news how it was when they put that little insert map that showed you what the weather map tomorrow was going to be like how they knew that that front which had no waves on it was going to develop a wave on it. That would turn into a big storm. I used to think that was amazing and I figured, well, it must have something to do with the upper air. Any rate that I could kind of follow with the daily weather map through the upper heard map. But the problem was when I moved out here to Chicago, this came four days later. It was too late to, you know, look at a real time reflection of what was going on in the weather, and I was frustrated. So I wrote a radio station in Aurora western suburb of Chicago. I'm told it was an eight page letter, and I said, look, if you can get me some current weather maps, how do a forecast for you this from a fourteen year old? And they thought, well, it's kind of an intriguing cuts. The guests Russ. He Tim was a program director and I got the car. We drove in here to the. Then United States weather bureau office on the university of Chicago campus top to guide show folks who is head of the office here, and he agreed to send out maps. We'd provide self addressed stamped envelopes, and they had a big Bruening architects type reproduction machine. 'cause they hand plotted a lot of maps in those days within the office. And the Chicago office was doing the forecast for Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa's. If memory serves me completely that all came out of Chicago, and and so they would send these maps out and we would pay the reproduction costs and I got my weather maps, but I also got a foot in the door and media weather, and that's how I started on the media track. So Laos was kind of it was sparked by this interest and curiosity, and then an opportunity presented itself. And I guess the rest forty plus years later history. Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. You know, you have been pretty much in Chicago most of your career. Do you think you could live in a city and forecast in another city or have even even presented it? So I know you said you were there at some other cities prior, but really people know you as Chicago. Yeah, you know, Marshall us spent a career following the weather in a given area and yet develop an expertise and only gained through year after year and decade after decade in an area, I feel so totally comfortable. I grew up in New Jersey. I did hurricane tracking charts and all figured when I moved out to the mid west, the the only thing I would miss out here would be hurricanes and tropical cyclones that we'd have about everything else. Well, you know, we have these severe weather up breaks. I've been here and witness to the coldest temperature ever recorded on record out here in eighty two and eighty five. We had the biggest snowstorm that changed the mayor through and the entire political structure of the city and chaos in seventy eight with mayor Jane Byrne and Michael Bowland Bowland was mayor at the time said everything was going just swell and get a snowstorm crippled the city and everybody in the city knew it wasn't and he lost his job to Jane Byrne. I've been here for the the horrible Plainfield tornado that struck without warming warning and a late August day in nineteen ninety. We saw that terrible heatwave disaster. The largest it to this day is the largest loss of life do a natural disaster in our city. It was the heat in July of nineteen ninety-five which takes on great relevance in our discussions of climate change. Yeah, and t ninety five. I remember that well, and it really speaks to this notion that he can be as deadly as some of the more genyk or sort of dramatic weather like tornadoes and hurricanes. So true. So true and we proved it here. We lost over seven hundred Chicagoans many of whom never were properly dente fide. There were all kinds of sociological studies done afterwards about the elderly and the young perished in that and and how it was related to. The breakdown of the family structure and and our neighborliness looking in on others and the elderly that live in our midst and how important it is. We do that in these extreme weather events, so it was amazing a year later, we had a catastrophic flood. The biggest ever in the state of annoy seventeen inches of rain fell in twenty four hours. We had homes with water up to the third floor dorms after that. So I the experience here in the mid west has been phenomenal. I can't see moving anywhere else at this late stage in my life and I wouldn't want to I, I remember news consoles one time. So would you consider job on the west coast? I said in those days we didn't have the mess. Oh scale. Modeling, we do today and the satellite imagery I said to them. No, I I remember attending a weather conference where the meteorologist can be said the most exciting thing that goes on here in Los Angeles is the. Rise in the ascension and the sinking of the inversion layer with direly out there. Yep, exactly. And I thought that's not for me. And yet, you know, the weather is fascinating in every region of the country in its own way. I just happened to feel comfortable after all these years with our mid west weather and it's victories and they are something to to see. You're listening to this podcast, there's a good chance you love weather, and if you love whether there's no better place to visit than we love whether dot TV, we love weather. Dot TV is an online community for people fascinated with mother nature, whether you're a casual weather fan who simply likes looking at photos or hardcore weather. He wants to know more about why tornadoes form a what the goes, our satellite launch with really about. We love whether dot TV is the site for you. And since we love whether dot TV was created by the Weather Channel, there's no other website that will bring you closer to your favorite meteorologist from the network articles and watch videos from people like Jim cantore, Alex Wilson, real LaRosa and the rest of the Weather Channel year old. Just, you know and love. They're also fun whether quizzes, online forums and exclusive giveaways that only we love whether members can receive join for free today to receive a weekly news. Later and be a part of the most passionate weather fan base at love, weather dot TV. And welcome back to the weather podcast. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd from the university of Georgia, and I'm having a great time talking to Tom skilling WGN TV chief meteorologist. I wanna pivot you. You've heard me mention a few times at Tom, a pioneer allege. Let me just put some proof behind those statements. Tom's known for his extended an in-depth weather forecast at g. and over a decade ago, he coordinated the launch of the Tribune weather center, which combined television station with the Chicago Tribune newspaper. Those are pioneering in addition to being in Volva WGN, which is one of the early super stations that reach people all across the nation. So those pioneering efforts and there are many other things as well. What was your motivation for some of the types of unique things that you've brought to the broadcast meteorology field? Well, I'll tell you one thing. You know, we in the weather. Profession. All of us are great at conceptualizing how nature's putting our weather together. We have to do that in order to be able to forecast it. So in in terms of my television presentations, I always was frustrated by the plexiglas boards and the magnetic the blinking highs and lows. You know, which constituted a weather show years ago. I thought this so much more in this story to put a cross. So we were among the first stations in this market to computerize our weather graphics, I always felt that was the way to go as well as accessing the amazing satellite imagery and putting this across. We've been excited to put the model data that all of us in meteorology in broadcast meteorology can put across and share with our viewers today in terms of the newspaper weather page. I was always frustrated at how poor a lot of these weather pages were. They've improved a great deal since then, but I always thought. What the Tribune weather page would be a success. If it was hanging on the wall of the classrooms around the area, and if we could use not only the page is a means to communicate tomorrow's weather in the weather and the, you know the days ahead but also to educate somehow. So we incorporate a little vignette every day which tries to describe how and conceptualized graphically how the weather's going to be put together. I always thought that Dr Ted Fujita and his ability to visualize tornadoes and micro Burson down person on the work he did over the years, you go through his catalog of papers and and the visuals he produced. He was a master at that, and it made it clear to people how the weather was working. And I think there's an increased relevance to the weather when that's the case. Yeah, I, I hear you completely which. As you noted earlier, that's one of the things I try to do in the Forbes that I write, and we had Greg Forbes on the weather geeks podcast earlier in the year, and he talked about some of that very thing. Now, one thing that you mentioned though you talked about the in depth weather forecast that you do WGN and you talk about these. Marshall, what I was going to say. I've driven many TV producer crazy. I, you know, they. Meteorologist in the country time is always one of the biggest complaint. So yeah, I bet it is director is going crazy, but hey, when you're Tom skilling, you can do that because one. Well. Well, no, it's serious. People might be listening to this. The weather block of newscast is very important to a newscast and also one of them, one of the more commercially viable parts of the newscasts. And when you have one of the best in the buildings, give them all the time they need is my philosophy. But I wanted to ask you something about the evolution of weather casting. So many people get their weather information from smartphones from apps maybe from. So has that changed in any way or forced you to change your presentation style. Oh, the whole media world has been transformed. We when I started, you prepared a radio programs broadcast in you, you you did television whether shows today were on all the platforms are media. Companies realize they've got to go where the audiences in the audience is on hand held devices and online, and tracking Facebook and Twitter, and all the rest show. You know, the job today is become of far more broadly based. We're on as we say on all the platforms and working on that. Did or bad thing, Tom that we have the chance because I've heard mixed feelings. Here's some younger colleagues have gotten into the business that have gotten out because they feel like they can't focus just on being a meteorologist. They're having to do so many things. What's your thought on this is someone has seen it all. Oh, I think I think there is some legitimate criticism of that. I find many television stations. They go up and contract with outside whether providers for, for instance, a lot of the digital conic forecasts. You get on these handheld devices and they put our names on it, but we really don't do those forecasts. We're concentrating on our television and so forth, but they want to have a presence, twenty four hours and and of course I always feel find conic forecast terribly lacking anyway. They simp- the weather is far more complex than what I can communicate on a forecast. And I think our severe weather coverage at times gets a little out of hand. I, you know, well, you know, I'm often put at the top of the show with an inch of snow forecast in January or a cold era break. And I've, I've had. Any discussions with producers. I feel that position in the newscast oughta be reserved for a true catastrophe or something that's really of life threatening consequence. And I'm told in rebuttal that, well, you know, you've got rush hour traffic and an inch of snow can cause much trouble is sometimes sixteen inch snow. And there's, we certainly know about that down here in Atlanta, if you're. Couple of early CDC's sort of the sort of pushback back on either side of that given the importance of whether to the overall station bottom line to some degree. Well, I think you know if we, if we overreact to some of these situations, I think we diminish the credibility. I think people people pretty well understand how the media works and they've you. It is hyping situation for ratings, and I must tell you that I have never in my career, had a news director coming and say, look, you're going to invent a situation that isn't developing that isn't real in order for us to get higher ratings. What's been discovered. The Marshall, as you well know is an has so eloquently put across is the fact that weather is very important. I when I started forty fifty years ago, you were told by the news consultants that they referring to your audience. We're. Only interested in if it's going to rain what the temperature is going to be only for tomorrow, the five day forecast was not really. You know something people waited for that his radically changed. Now, if there's a reason to put the weather on its viewed as a reason to go with the weather and in a way, I'm grateful that that's happened because it it reinforces my view that that I've always had that people are inherently interested in this amazing atmosphere within which all of us operate and the its workings. I would agree. I would agree with that as well. Tom, that's how the whole weather geeks concept came about here at the women. Mike, just or feel who's from Naperville executive producer of weather, geeks and director of graphics and presentations here. I'm not sure if it's exact title. You know, they sort of tapped into this notion at people, love weather and they, they didn't want it sort of at a cursory level. They wanted a deep dive in the what we meteorologists were doing and the concepts that we're using. And even with this podcast, they're getting eavesdrop onto experts in the field. And so it's right. This is the whole concept of what we're trying to do with whether geeks, well, I, you've taken it to a new level and I and you know, it's it's so fun to see somebody else who shares such deep passion but also has developed a means to communicate with the public because I think people are interested in this and why not. We swim in this oceanic atmosphere every single day at affects the way our bodies work. It affects our outlook on life, whether we can work on certain days or go to school, our health, our, our fitness it in affects every aspect of our lives. So little wonder that people would find it interesting. Even down to the basic, how do I dress for tomorrow? There's so many levels in which the weather impacts our lives every single day and every moment of every. Take the guesswork out of your morning routine and start your mornings off, right with AM HQ on the Weather Channel. Every weekday, starting at five AM eastern Jim cantore, Stephanie Abrams, Jen fag. No. Tell you everything you need to know to prepare for the day ahead. You'll get more than just the forecast. You'll get stories of the day and the science behind the forecast with unrivalled expertise and unparalleled weather presentation start your day with AM HQ starting at five AM eastern only on the weather. We are back on the weather gets podcast. I'm Dr Marshall shepherd in. We are in our last segment and I've enjoyed it so much, but I wanna use this last segment to just pick Tom skilling brain on a couple of things. He's a big believer in education. I know he has some thoughts on climate and the climate change discussion. But before I get to those two things, I did want to ask you what is Chicago's toughest forecast over your years there? Forty years. What is the most difficult sort of forecasts area that you deal with their? I think these wetter storms, which often can produce a variety of whether across the same viewing area. I literally one day had a situation which there was flash flooding going on. The show ended do page county are western media western county here, and there was a blizzard in progress in the north end of it. And I had people calling me names on both sides of the rain, snow line and. And you know the, the people in the blizzard area says, what are you talking about a flash flood? We're, we've got zero visibility out here and then hung up from that call and we, you know, we laid it out beautifully. I thought and clearly. But then somebody called from the rainy side of the rain. Snow line said, you're crazy. I, you know, what's his talk snow? It's raining like crazy and my road is flooding and my yard. So the variety of weather and placing these rings snow lines continues even in this day and age to be a real challenge. And and one that's interesting too, and challenging to communicate though. We have marvelous graphics today that allow us to do this in. Of course, the commu- computer modeling that's been done is just amazing. Yeah, the high resolution stuff coming out now, the h our model just unbelievable. Yeah, but living in Atlanta and having lived in DC area that reigns. Snow line. I would agree as a significant headache as well. I want to kind of pivot to discussion that you kind of tease earlier in the podcast and this this sort of divergent view at times among even broadcast meteorologist colleagues on climate change. What is your on this and has it evolved any or has it sort of been pretty steady all along? Oh, it's volved amazingly. I am absolutely convinced. I don't think there's any any question that our climate is changing and it's doing so profoundly and rapidly and with incredible consequences. I mean, look at this past summer wildfires in the west flooding Florence representing, you know. To stage producing two states record tropical cyclone rainfalls an ad that to Wii and Texas, and it's done it within a year. We've had four flood situations in the Chicago area at one point or another. During the past year, you have drought and in Europe and wildfires in northern Scandinavia. Drought in Australia, Japan, going from high heat to floods, you know, an incredible heat in the Pakistan and India and so forth. This is happening and what's really distressing is that the current political leadership in Washington doesn't get it. You feel inclined to say, I wish somebody out there would pick up a book or bring a scientist into the mix to inform them about what's going on. This is not the time to be taking the approach, burn, baby burn when it comes to fossil fuels. I just bought an electric car. It's the best thing I've ever done. It's definitely the wave of the future. I think the day will come Marshall when we look at gas stations as being a part of antiquity. The way we do the blacksmiths I could see that being the case, but I wanna pick up on something. You just said, because it was a question I wanted to ask you because I know how big you are giving talks and going out in the schools. Do you think we're doing enough? Because I think part of the issue, some some of the sort of whole climate pushback is just a misinformation campaign because as in clear his said, it's difficult to get a man to understand something when a salary depends on him, not understanding it. So some of that play, but do. Do you think we're getting enough science in elementary schools and lessons across the country. Some of this? No, I don't. And and I think we in the media have to do more as well. Look, you don't want to shove this down people's throat because it'll be an obvious adverse reaction to that. And that's not our intention. This first of all is not a political issue. It's a scientific issue where it becomes politicals. We need policymakers to do make informed judgments on what to do about it or try and do about it. But no, I think we have to, I think, using real time, I think this effort to attribute extreme weather events and climate changes role in them where it's possible is a good move. Talking about attribution science for those just kind of the forefront of the climate science and I agree it has potential can be can be misused, but I think you're right. It's something that we certainly need to go down that road. I think you're right, Marshall, and and I know you do it in your column regularly and and eloquently I've worked, I have the joy of working with Don wobbles out of the university of Illinois. He's one of the major, yes. He's Beijing behind the national climate assessments. He was one of the movers and shakers and getting the Montreal protocol passed. It banned chlorofluorocarbon propellant from our aerosol cans. They were destroying our own layer and we found recently the Chinese are cheating on that and releasing CFC back into the air. Again, they've been addenda fide and something presumably will be done about that, but it, you know, the Montreal protocol proved one thing. We got all the countries of the world together at working toward one goal, and we proved that we can have an impact on a negative trends in our environment, and we should be approaching this the same way. I, I'm. Horrified. What I've seen go on with the policy is dismantling of the EPA those scrubbing of climate change data and mention from EPA websites among others. The banning of the use of the term climate change in Florida among state officials. I think this is preposterous and ill-timed to put it mildly. So I think we must continue to educate and point out to people because unless it happens in people's backyards, I don't think they understand that this really is an issue, but Dan, but Tom, one of the things that I've heard from tallies in our field and is, you know your broadcaster and you, you have a certain standard there. Some, I'm, you know, this was something that I with wells president of AMS this notion in some markets. There are some broadcast, you're all are hesitant to talk about the topic or even what even mention it for fear of pushback ratings. Oh, coming across. How, how have you. Navigated that Marshall. I think just longevity in the market. I'm able to say things that a young broadcaster and meteorologist might not be able to say, and I absolutely concur with you. I think there's some markets. We're pretty progressive up here in Chicago. You could talk about climate change, and when I look at the forums that we do, I've been working with a lot of our congress people and all who have put together public forums on this that turn outs are amazing. The level of question it questioning that goes on in this indicates we've got a population that understands this is an issue and is curious and interested in forming themselves more about it. There are some markets where you couldn't do that, I'm sure, and it's a shame I, that's a real dilemma about it. You you talked about forums. I wanted to make sure I talked to a little bit about tornado and severe storms seminar at Fermilab that's going on thirty thirty five years or so. That is happening. It will. You know, this was the first year we didn't do it it. We've done it every April and we have had a literal who's who of the science, the severe weather research and forecasts community. And gosh, we've had Ted foot Gino we've had Chuck does well run down the list. Burgess has been in even Kelvin. Tro Ghimire was one of our speakers on science adviser. Just recently confirmed for the president. Oh, I tell you his his presentation on numerical modelling, the atmosphere which I had to Google to remember the year that we had Kelvin in. It was two thousand five. I know lie Marshall. This was one of the best presentations. Ida sat there and all listening to him. Describe to a lay audience. What's involved in this? The presentation was engaging. It was fascinating. It was articulate and and beautifully. Done as any I've ever heard on a complex subject like this. He is amazing as have been so many Don Burgess talking about Doppler radars role in the work he's done over career. In this in this arena, we've had folks from NASA, your al-matar, one of them, and I, you know what an amazing organization that is. That's why we've got to watch carefully and make sure that an incredible operation like NASA. One of the gems in this country's crown is not as properly funded and not restrained by the political climate. I completely agree and I serve on Nasr's cheer Nasr's earth science advisory committee. And I will say that Minnesota Brian Stein has been very. Saying the right things and doing the right things on that topic that I'm running out of time, but I wanted to get your final thoughts on what you think the future of weather forecasting on air weather presentation is, is there something that you see in your crystal ball and zero to five year out hero the ten year timeframe that you just see coming? Well, I tell you something. I think this immersion graphic technology that the Weather Channel employed to describe storm surge. For instance, we're going to see more of this where this improvement in visualization of science, including meteorology, is going to continue as we have better and better computers and better and better software to put these. These sorts of presentations across the modeling that's done is getting better by the day, and it's really standing. We're going to see that continue to improve. I think. The outlook is is very sunny there lot of platforms on which this information will be communicated and that reach a greater number of people. And so I think I think for those of us who are engaged in this line of work, it's going to be a fascinating period. And I include the research community that on who shoulders, all of us stand as media types. It's, you know, it's one of the things that was big that we try to do my tenure AMS really foster this notion of the weather enterprise. I think you're a big part of it. If if my career ended today, this is one of the highlights of it having a chance to spend little under an hour with Trump skilling. I'm gracious, and thank you so so much for joining us on the weather geeks, podcast, Marshall. It has been an honor beyond words to work with you on this. And I, I hope we do it again, and I'm just thrilled that I've had a chance finally. Tonight look forward to doing it finished phase. Thank you. Jim.