Bonus: The Digital Imperative
welcome to ovation a weekly conversation with people. Who are shaping the technology landscape? I'm Peter Hi. President of Meta Strategy Advisor Technology Technology Executives Forbes columnist book author and your host each episode of innovation features insights from top executives thought leaders at the intersection of business technology and innovation. If you like what you hear we'd be grateful that you give us a rating on itunes or through. Whatever other sources you use for podcasts? Please subscribe so you. Don't miss a thing. Thank you welcome to this Special Bonus episode of Techno Vacation. I wanted to share a conversation from our Meta Strategy Summit in Twenty Nineteen and tell me introduce the session is the person who led the conversation sation not a strategy vice president west coast lead. I welcome thanks. Peter Happened to be the topic of the panel that you lead was digital bill transformation and I know some listeners. Here that topic and think that it's a bit stale but you come from the perspective that it's a topic that remains on the essense and brass. Maybe even it is a bit misunderstood and therefore it's important to revisit progress that leaders are charting So that others can learn from them. Can you talk a bit about your own perspective on the topic. Yeah happy to Peter. I think when you look at the economy when you look at the business landscape what's apparent to me. Is that the speed with which which things are changing is ever increasing. I don't see it slowing down. And there's there's no evidence that it will and so when you think about speed when you think about the need for organizational agility the time to market to capture new opportunities to respond to things that aren't going in your favor all all of that points directly to harnessing digital in a way. That is more effective more well-thought-out but also permits your entire business a lot of organizations approach approach technology generally speaking but this notion of quote unquote digital as its new business unit as a separate endeavor as this thing that they're going to do on top above all of the other prostitutes that they have and I challenged that. I think that we need to rethink this term digital so we think about digital in three ways Peter the first is digitisation. This is taking the paper format and turning it into an electron format so for US manufacturing organization in as the example. This is your paper checklists. That is moving into an IPAD or some other sort of digital workflow. The second example is digitalization. Asian is taking an existing business process. Neither automating it or putting it in electronic format so that it can get done in a self service men or or a human even assisted way so an example might be used to call up a sales agent to reorder apart. That broke now. You might be able to transact online order it. Find out when it's being shipped text message when it's on its way and you have a portal to manage your entire supply chain the third element which is really where are a lot of the jargon and probably the hype cycle has has gone up and down on. Is this term digital transformation for us. Peter we think about this as a complete retooling and rethinking of your business model this is looking at the people you have deployed processes that you're using the technology of course at some place but also how you measure and capture value in a fundamentally different way an example again with manufacturing might be well people used to just call you to shoe binu parts when something broke They retire things that were already being news. Well what if you decided you know the things that we produce USA really expensive. They're large. We're GONNA create an aftermarket. It's going to be a marketplace for our customers can sell refurbish products to each other. And we're just GONNA capture percentage of ood doc fundamentally new way to create value obviously driven in scale through digital but that the company didn't have exposure before so we think Peter Digital's becoming only more important and we don't see it slowing down. That's great context. Chris I appreciate that I WanNa talk a did about the speakers who joined you on stage. The conversation featured Andy Kerr Buddha's former chief information officer of Del Former executive vice president technology is a solutions in some corporate heirs biogen and now the chief information officer and Chief Digital Officer of National Grid a Major Energy Corporation based in the UK but with major operations of both sides of the Atlantic. I should also mention a board member of advance auto parts in para go as well as Diane shores of former chief information officer of textron now the chief information officer certain chief digital officer of hunt consolidated so a different sort of energy company in her case and so wanted to talk a bit about these two you leaders who explicitly entitle and indeed we digital for their companies Cure the full conversation momentarily. But maybe provide us a little bit of an introduction as to what what you found compelling about their conversation Peter. What's so interesting is that both of these executives are in the industrial space whether it's literally oil discovery we joke about? Data's the new oil like this is a company. That's in the business of doing that for for oil as well as the electric grid. So when you think about these two industries the pace with which they need to operate the level of sensor information the screens data data the screens Internet of things and these organizations that have to be operationally excellent on not just so that they can just keep up with the volume of transactions. The work that comes their way but also for safety so we joked at the outset. A we're taking digital back you can think about digital in terms of products and services says digital is in the customer experience there's also a huge component is. How do digitalize your operations and so this isn't just a cute shop by here ear an ECOMMERCE out there? This is mission critical stuff that these companies collapse if technology quote unquote digital isn't driving the agenda and it's not just about being reactive. It's about being proactive. So that they can think about how they unlock new sources of value. So what I love about the conversation. Peter is both Diane and Andy had some great soundbites. Andy When asked about how do you drive the digital agenda in a a company of your size in a new industry for you said well you know when I came in I observed lots of random acts of digital it's not unlike rhythms at acts of kindness and she had to find a way to harness all of those random acts and coordinate them and put some intention on prioritization behind and with Dan? We talked about the the battle for talent and the need to have rape people to help drive this type of transformation and building on her industry in background. She said you know we had to get creative with our ability ability to find talent so we went fracture talent and but they an Andy I think have really unique Very informative view about how as chief digital officers officers who were born out of it. This wasn't something that just came out as in parallel. But they have both a chief information officer in digital digital officer remains to their organization and really enjoy their points of view on on how to drive the degeorge. Excellence well without Out further. Let's go to your conversation. Chris with Andy Kerr Buddha's and Diane Schwartz. I'M GONNA call this the James Bond panel when you think about the experiences dances that that my two panels have it pieces together. The perfect art of the opening scene of a James Bond movie. You can imagine a villain stealing some state secrets. They're running away and they're getting in a fast car. That car goes off a ledge as the car is going into the water. The James Bond is jumping onto a helicopter that helicopter turns into an airplane which turns into a spaceship and all along the computer hacker from behind. The scene is connecting the dots so so between the two of them we have aerospace and defense experience. GM and Ford from a a car experience security. So when do you think about digital a lot of people think about well the the chat. Bot How do I make acute apt that engages customers and I said this morning but this is going to take digital back. These are companies national grid and hunt consolidated. Where digital provides mission uncritical business capability? We're talking about people's lives. We're talking about safety. We're talking about unlocking customer value. Note no doubt about audit but it really changes the paradigm in my opinion that it's not about digital on the edge digital just with sales and marketing but we're here to talk about digital in helping businesses compete and so I'll start by asking both of you to introduce yourselves and provide a little bit of context and then we'll peel back the onion a little bit further so Dan. I wonder if you can hunt. Consolidated is a large company. That has lots of different pieces. And you're not new to to that Textron similar paradigm and Honeywell before before that. So can you provide the audience just a little bit of a spectrum into all of the different components that fit under Hula large umbrella so so yes I'm new to hunt consolidated and know that brand that most people don't know although if you're in the Dallas Alice area or in Texas the hunt family is relatively iconic they value their privacy and view privacy's a competitive advantage. Which makes it difficult when you're navigating a new job really investigating that company her but We're very big in both domestic and international oil and gas asks exploration and production. That's a mouthful so we do both upstream and we do midstream. People know the industry's while we also I do alternative energies and working in wind farms and production of batteries for solar farms and really doing assume. Rnd on where energy is going to go But we also have some great plays in real estate most of it here locally so if any maybe no reunion tower the big ball lights up for example that's one of our fantastic properties and when you are in oil and gas you owned lots of land in you can multipurpose that land so we also have ranching as one of the business units that we have so I have a very diverse portfolio that I am and getting my arms around so then in the role of joined last August and we talk about taking digital back one thing to note so When when they put out the The job search. It was a pretty typical chief information officer description and as I worked through the interview process and got down to the end with the CEO. I really influenced the chief digital and information officer to send a very intentional message to the organization that I and this position and technology isn't what it was when it was running the previous legacy and so yeah I took digital back when I negotiated the final offer. That's great thanks. San Any national grid is a British firm and so may not be a household name for for all everyone here but fifteen billion dollar British pounds or fifteen billion British pounds which the conversion today is a little bit lower so we're talking nineteen billion. USD talked a little bit about the scope of National Grid. Yes Oh thanks for so as you said. National Grid is a British multinational shnell utility company in essence we do electricity and gas transmission in the UK. which is a B. Two B. Business if you think about it as just transmission? It's all of England Wales part of Scotland and in the US. We have portions of Massachusetts Rhode Island New York most people in the US. It's an American company most people in the UK considered only only a British company. But it is a British multinational. The only thing I can claim about real estate is I can look out my window on Trafalgar Square and see Lord Nelson but we don't own him the statue or the real estate. But I had to do something exciting here too. You know for that continuum if you think about what Diane just described about being an energy source. What National Grid does? We don't own the energy but we own all of the assets that transmit that energy and in the US were beat is C. Company whereas we also do the distribution. So we take the high-voltage we step it down through substations to lower voltage and do the last mile to houses and businesses can't emphasize the size enough. What Chris said relative to the fact that I did a stint in biotech and I thought how do you? How do you top helping? Save people's lives until so you go to a utility company and realize that if you don't work to the level of six sigma you can take people's lives and that really is a calling and so so as the world's Moose forward on digital and we think about a utility company which is at the low end digital it is not up where retailer financial services are it's really at the low end of digital. You think well it just needs to be a state entity that just transmits. You don't worry about but you think about forest worst fires in California and you think about if there were sensors potentially on holes they could say I have something. That's butting up against me right now that shouldn't be and that can set alarms if you think about a few weeks ago. We had someone who lost both legs. When a massive metal plate that usually covers construction? Construction sites slid off truck and severed someone's legs. Who was working for National Grid? You think about if we had sensors and if we had how digital capabilities that could form those things what could we have done. So both the customer community and Internal Eight to our national grid employees digital becomes really important and like Diane. When I got the call I thought to myself? Why would I go to a utility company until some of those scenarios were painted for me and realize that this isn't just a cio role it's a it's a C- ideal role and it's actually two roles because they are very distinctive different? And so that's kind Kinda my story on why I'm here that's fantastic. So I want to connect the dots because in both of your introductions the thing that screams out to me especially for this space when you think about the term digital it can be products and services it could be customer experience. It could be core information and the common moniker is people process technology but for me in digital you have to add information to that and it's when you combine those four things that you then enable that great customer smer Experience Dan. I wanted to start with you when you think about the role. Data plays and unlocking new capability whether it's in oil exploration or other facets of the hunt consolidated umbrella Where do you think the possibilities go? Because you're industry is one where Iot not is not hype Not is very a very material opportunity to drive better decision making to improve business operations so I wonder if you could just sort of expand on the business opportunity of digital especially with data at the center of it. So it's it's hard to imagine anything anything in and I'll I'll focus on the oil aspects of our business how to find an area where data's not impacting it. We were at a I'm a large supplier yesterday. Halliburton in Houston With our a bunch of drilling and exploration geologists they are all highly technical business. snus guys guys and every bit. The six hours of reason Haitians that we sat through was all about `bout digital data right so we weren't talking about FRAC fluid and we weren't talking about drill bits and we weren't talking about workover costs it wasn't all of the traditional conversations it it was all how they're using. Ai And predictive analytics and and visualization in what they're doing as a supplier to make a difference in how we drill rig so it was really interesting to me me to see real time. How data is changing their business and therefore impacting us? But what was really fascinating to me. So I'm new in learning this. This business obviously obviously since I came from a aerospace defense and manufacturing is how complicated the earth is. You're blind literally you're blind wind when you're drilling so you go down about a mile and you go out to miles and the rocks are not uniform in. So you're making all all of these assumptions. About what kind of drill bit you put in and how you're going to get all of this fluid out of the earth and how you GonNa do that over a number careers and so when you think about how data can help with that. Hey I is absolutely one but you need to gather all this data in very creative ways as on the earth is billions of years old in our knowledge relative to that is just this much. Data's absolutely transforming the oil industry. But we have a long way to go. Because there's so much that we don't know so that's that's one aspect but when you said we do two jobs ups and Wayne. You pointed out if we don't do the I part of our job we're not getting anywhere on the D.. So equipping people with basics getting them out of excel. Hell has an a large part of my role the last six months hitting them out of email email. So it's great that we can talk about all these fantastic analytics in a on digitalization of what it's GonNa do except that when the tip hit the iceberg. There's just a whole bunch of weight underneath the water that it's going to take years to get them thinking on a different plane and acting on a different plane So to that end and you mentioned it when you first were approached with the job it was a cio in recrafted in broaden the horizon and so part of this and we heard this in earlier conversations. And I think One of the earlier panel said that quote unquote digital transformation is changing every function of the company. And Wayne might have might have been you and so a lot of it is this mindset shift and so both firms have been around for a long time maybe on its face value wouldn't scream Technology or or changing the way things work Oil Or electricity have been foundational to economic success in a little bit of if you have that opportunity you just sort of milk the cow and keep making the best of it but any you're a recent winner of the Forbes Innovation Award At our London conference last year and part of that was is the national labs and how you came in and tried to infuse digital DNA into the organization. I wonder if you can sort of for for people where where the business partners or the rest of the organization isn't quite there. How do you break through? How how do you pick a point to start to go from excel? Hell uh-huh to add to the excitement of opportunity just to get the momentum going so when I came into national grid due to what you always do listen for a while. Do you watch etcetera. You have to talk to the board and the senior executive team in your CEO on what they really think digital is and then you have to share observations. We had random acts of digital good. Rin Max we had we prioritized. We had sparks. We've got people excited. We did things and they were great except half of them and forgive me. We're optimizing the word on an elephant spot that we didn't even want in the room right and so the CEO recognized together with the digital digital side of my shot which was very small very weak. And we've built up since that we really need big hairy audacious goals to talk about what what we want to do in a digital world. And so I'll tell you exactly what it is so to your point. A few minutes ago Chris you said it's internal operations costumer costumer enablement engagement new products and services. So we looked at all three and we said what do we WANNA do. We had to do something on internal operations which we ended up doing employees. And we're still during now which is new intranet so that we could get rid of friction because until you can actually show your employees. This is a real initiative this is real action and culture change. You're not going to get that energy so first thing we did something simple. We're putting in a new internet. We got Unilever. We did all the things we needed to do. Do Co sponsored with corporate affairs. Because you can't just put wire frames out there. You need really great content for Internet's so that's one piece but the board and the CEO. Oh and I actually sat down and said what we really see as our North Star for digital is customer engagement enablement not a better IVR. But you don't need an IV are what you do. Is You need a portal where customers can say. I'M GOING IN I. I have a new house I need need someone to hook me up. Can you slot book me. I have three days available and you get a date. That's reliable on the operation side the grid operations rations side. We said we don't want anybody hurt again. And we want the most reliable grid. That's the North Star. And how do you do that. You no longer son a man or a woman up to the top of a substation to see if a bushing is discharging it. There's a sensor up there and it phones home to tell you that the bushing is discharging or that the circuit circuit breaker is wearing and so do we believe that. We're never going to have a call center. That's personalized or man Louis. Do we believe that we're never going to have grid operations that will never require a human being no but that is the Northstar and until you set some kind of a vision like that then the projects that you work on won't be leading in that right direction. So I'll give you a perfect example and I'll get back to the digital apps here and a sack perfect example go to digital labs one in the UK one in the US started out at about twenty five people. It's less than fifty. It will stay less than fifty. That's how how we WANNA keep that nucleus glorious going in we prioritize what goes through it I went into the digital labs in the US. What's the latest and greatest that's come through our pipeline of digital ideas? You're working on. We're working on a watch that when the person goes out to the house to turn off gas because someone hasn't paid their bill they can discreetly hit a button. The state feel threatened when somebody comes out with a gun because get off my property. You can't turn off my gas. Isn't that great. And I said that is great but our north as far says we want to be able to turn off gas without somebody needing to go out to the house therefore go ahead and finish your watches. short-term recognize it's not part of the big big hairy audacious goal doesn't make it less important it's important for the short game but the long game says we have to have advanced advanced metering infrastructure. Where we can remotely turn off gas and not still walk up to people's houses with pliers on this that and the other thing? Why are those things important because if we all keep doing random random acts of digital and exciting things and they some of things might release value etc.? You really not going to that long-term that your board and your CEO and you won't have agreed that you want to go so you have to keep that way so back to your to digital teams. It's outstanding. They have learned their agile. Gile they drive agile. They're teaching the rest of the organizational schedule scaled agile. We actually now have the Agile Center of Excellence for the company. Because your business people need to go through agile training right. You can't be an tea or just a digital team doing it. They have to go through agile training. And so these these Both of these teams are great. We rotate people. We'll throw in some of the best talent that we get straight out of the universities. People that are not tainted. Somebody's senator earlier. If you start with all the reasons why you can't do something we're putting an s four is a digital financials platform right. If you start with all the things you can too. Then you've already constrained yourself so we get a lot of young talent. Want coming through that and I'm just now actually looking to hire a chief digital officer. We had some. Who is who had started out? It's one of these things. What got you here won't get you there so you're constantly solely having to rotate that talent? Did I answer any part of your question. Just say what. I wanted to say because I don't do that. The audience enjoyed it either. Okay I'M GONNA move on the Diane one of the interesting things Hunt consolidated the word consolidate implies different business snus units and so a question. I've always found fascinating is when many companies start quote unquote digital journey. It's more more of an agency model. They create a team where it's all things digital flow through me and then over time you recognize that. Yes maybe that works in ECOMMERCE. Yes maybe that works for marketing landing pages. Maybe it works for a few mobile APPS that you want to build. But eventually that doesn't scale and that digital needs to permeate and be core to the actual fabric fabric of how all of the different businesses are operating so. I wonder if you can comment on how you think about. What is sort of common digital capability that you want to build across? What's the enterprise and what you want to sort of infuse as sources of differentiation for each of the units? That are under the umbrella so a little difficult to say that we have something in common because we have such diverse businesses. But you can really say things that differentiate a business stay in the business and things like delivering cloud capabilities. So the business can build off of them are going to be more more of the core competencies but we'll talk a little bit about the structure of how we have innovation so we absolutely have random acts of kindness. I'M GONNA play dry random attack so I don't have shadow. It because right out there in the open and it's pervasive in the oil company And then we we have a some the new business unit Innovation Hubs where they are specifically funded to find the next great business unit of the future. So those are absolutely going on but something that we're starting to tap into it's not yet digital but I'll call it innovation so our our CFO. Oh started a year and a half ago so she got her head. Start ahead of me before that. There hadn't been much infusion of new blood so she started what's called all the collaboration resource group or collaborative resource groups Group of volunteers that really want exposure of the business and talent development. So we'll come up with an idea and say columnists sprint for six to eight weeks. Who wants to take some extra time out of their job and work on this project so just a couple of examples one of them? I mentioned reunion tower. which we own will be to go and be like secret? Shoppers over there in Rian Vision. What that visitor experience to look like another one was developing being a business plan for some of our energy operations in Mexico? Another one was much simpler but should we put room reservations on outlook the because we had territories that were everywhere and so we're getting visibility all kinds of talent across the organization and that are raising their hands says I want to be part of this new generation so. I'm really hoping that we can start to marry this. Talent with digital initiatives as we start to get some momentum so you have the well funded enterprises I WANNA tap into. It's like fracking and fracking for talent. That's what I'm doing. When you you're pushing? Water and sand in all the little crevices to get oil backout Christian trademarking everything refracting talent random acts of digital. I haven't come up with anything good yet. So you both have digital in your title and I think that that's a controversial thing for some companies and it's sort of one of two minds some companies exists. This there's a chief digital officer and chief information officer sometimes in both of your cases it's a shared title and you're making it explicit that that there is is that customer orientation that external value orientation but for others in the room. Who maybe they're a chief information officer Sir and they have a peer whose chief digital officer or boss? Perhaps Would you how does that working relationship evolve like is the chief digital officer title. Here to stay is a moment in time. That's rebranding the role. That technology leaders have like. Where do we go from here? And what's what's the utility in in the term digital in once title so I'll start Is it's not a bad thing to have to write. And and it is risky to be two in Wong. I'll be very honest because a matter of fact Harvard Business Review just had an article not too long ago about this but CIO's that becomes the ideas. There is a bigger propensity for failure than not. Now I took that heated it and said that just means we have to work even harder and make sure we're doing this right and the reason is exactly what we said before three reasons why digital strategies he's fail is you get mired in all of the. It legacy stuff that you say you have to fix before you can go do become a digital business digital concentric around costumer. That's one you don't have a strategy. You just have a lot of random acts. That's two and three. Never change the culture and it is. It is huge each to change the culture the part about getting mired in it foundational things that need to change is the risks that I see a sea idea Eddie O or whatever you WanNa call it runs and that is because you do say well. I have to upgrade my legacy systems. I've got to get my the billing systems done. We have to get off V. C. Nanda as for and it never ends two and one's need to think about what is it. I absolutely have to upgrade in order to make a digital capability more be able to put it out there. What is it that I'm just gonNA build enfold in and replace and what is the dominant perfect till we make it right? You'RE GONNA figure out how to do this fast. I'm going to get the billing and pricing. I'M NOT GONNA wait till tomorrow to be as successful for me chief digital information. Officer you have to really decide what where everything falls on that spectrum. If you don't decide then you fall the risk by having a separate CTO and CIO. It's actually easier and I know some of you can say well good for you princess. You're up there with both titles. The reality is it it is easier because the the CIO will just focus heavily on this partner and the structure your organizations such that you set those constructs. It's and you're aware that pitfall in it is a big pitfall it really is. So that's kind of how I think about it. And if you think about it that way maturely for those companies that have a cio a CTO CDO partner with the Kazan. You could use serpent right. Don't fight it. Don't be doing the this because once you do that. The company opening loses Angelou Zoo right so embrace whatever construct there is and deliver it all. Open up the questions. Just one minute Dan. What are your thoughts well I've always thought that chief information officer was a terrible title anyway. It doesn't describe the bulk of what we have historically done. So I'm looking looking forward when we build out all these new business capabilities that we can reinvent a more appropriate title for what we actually do. Though I I don't know I don't have the an the proposal out there I think will The the future in time will tell I want to open it up to questions Yes please Atticus Tyson of into maybe ask the controversial question. I've I've kind of always thought that if you had a CD Oh admit you had the wrong cio. Because they weren't really thinking forward enough. You're you're both. What do you think of this idea that the CD Oh was maybe a passing fad until the CIO's got more strategic? And what. What do you see has been the real advantage of having both titles purses just calling yourself a CIO? But doing it in a forward thinking way. Hey practicably if you're the CIO CTO. You have outward facing an import facing you doing customer systems throughout their customers some would say that's the CTO not oh by the way solar. There's that whole thing going on if you're in tech companies especially tech company that's so is it a passing fad look. There's there's a work. There is a view that there is Customer centrisly products and services that digital tied together in retail it's platforms of physical and digital. Oh come virtual coming together for me. It's all about embracing all of that work and whatever construct in the company works it works. It's sort sort of like digital models. You touched on it before Chris. Right there is the federated there is concentric and then there is the hub and spoke. There is no right answer. It's it's just that work exists. Pick the model that works for your industry and your company. We happen to be hub-and-spoke I happen to be the ideal I think if they put a CD. Oh in the company you probably for where we are down here it. It might in in our industry. It might confuse things even more but if I was a different person it might have been something better or I don't know so I'm not so sure I'd get that hung up on what the right construct is versus wrong. Because it's different by industry it's different by Company the important thing is to get the work done on to meet the strategic goals. The organization says The as one additional anecdote. Peter published a podcast S.. With who is the chief data officer Schneider Electric a couple of weeks ago and everybody was the chief information officer for something like ten years and then they created the chief digital officer role where it reports in the Iot Analytical Schneider Electric elevators so you can imagine they were doing iot before that was was a term the corden analytics team among product management and some other functions. And what he talks about is the benefit was and in. This is a little but what Andy was alluding to they were finding that. It was too and we focus and by elevating that role in actually having a reporting relationship it it provided clarity that it's could be explicitly internal business operations and that there were other teams that were external. But because there's one reporting relationship it's not contentious but it's collaborative and I think that that's you were doing the fist bumping. That's certainly the thing. I think we're all trying to solve for We have time for one more question. Even if there there's any Anyone in the audience that but fast anything our all ask one more sedan. You mentioned. You're you're in a meeting with a number of oil executives noted they were all men but We'll we'll hope that that gets better and you're single it's all about. Ai and data analytics further the the oil gas and electricity industry. What is hype? And what is real like. What are the technologies that are truly excited about and what are the the ones you think are just sort of drops in the bucket in? It's all marketing. That's tough so in this supplier deep dive that we had yesterday. There's all of these great stories about how they can improve productivity of a while ten then fifteen percent a little bit of ai put onto it and you walk away from that meeting and and on the plane back with with my associates. They yeah but they're too expensive and we'd rather go with this other supplier anyway. So we're just good with what we've had look at us. They they just demonstrated how you can have a fifteen percent improvement. That's millions of dollars that you're gonNA drop directly to the bottom line is site now. We know what we're doing so I'm still teasing that out because I'm new to the organization. Think new to the hype but I really believe that you can apply data to understand what's underneath our earth and factor. How you're going to get more of it Out and better and continue to do that. It's just a matter of winning over the hearts and minds of everyone who's been doing the same way for thirty five years. I'll tell they of Farrah's hype. Is these mobile APP MOBILE APPS or not. I'm GONNA say something. Controversial or not digital mobile APPS are not digital rate with digits. So you know we have the we have APPs. The was the first random acts of digital of people showed me that we download. And it'll talk show you the weather. And there's outage in this part of Rhode Island's and when's the outage outage going away that's interesting cocktail hour information and when you look at the downloads. Compared to a twenty million people we serve it's miniscule. What's real is it is? You can't store electricity today. You can store gas in tanks but electricity is something that gets traded back and forth and it can't be stored easily yes working with Tuzla were putting the number one battery size battery insulation in Antioch It with Tuzla Energy. But what's real is. How do you use technology allergies like block chain which are a little height but are very real as well to do electricity balancing and trading? So that you're optimizing the cost to do those are the real all things. It is making sure that you can sense those outages so that they don't happen Napa downloadable apps so we all need to get over our mobile APPs right when I was in the biotech industry. We had the health apps that they are real. I don't mean to minimize them but that's not true digital at the heart of meeting the objectives of your your corporate goals what you WanNa do so. Let me summarize here to to close out first is identify the random acts of digital the the second is Frac for talent so that you can identify the people who are excited to go on with the journey identify the North Star in so even in pursuit of things that maybe well intentioned you can craft and make sure that you're really advancing the ultimate goal that it's not the the watch that an internal problem but it really solves the root cause caused so please join me in thanking Diana. Thanks for tuning in. Please join me next week when my guests will be Naresh shocker the chief technology officer of Xerox.