Enemy of the State With Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, and Chris Ryan
Today's episode of the Re watchable is brought to you by state farm around here. We love talking about movies that we watch we watch and watch again because they're just that good the thoughtful details the little things other movies. Don't have keep us coming back. Here's the deal when it comes to insurance. We can't get enough estate farm. They had all the details. We appreciate they make insurance easy. Monitor your coverage pair bill. Even file claims through their APP which was awarded. Best Insurance Mobile Two thousand nineteen and thanks to their network in nineteen thousand agents. You have someone local to walk through options. Now choose a policy that meets your individual needs verse Cookie Cutter Coverage Best of all to give you a straight no gimmicks no games just guidance. You can count on to no-brainer. Go Out and get the insurance. You deserve get state. Farm like a good neighbor state. Farm IS THERE. Get a quote or find an agent at State Farm. Dot Com. We are also brought to you by world central kitchen. Their relief teams working across America. To safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals communities. That need support. They formed Hashtag chefs for America. Coalition restaurants tech companies working together provide meals to Americans that need assistant and they're supporting workers local hospitals who are working wartime time conditions. Right now those are the true heroes you can directly help them in hospitals and clinics fighting for us and learn about initiatives like frontline foods off their plate feed the frontline. Los Angeles in East Bay feed. Er help keep your local restaurants alive as well. Learn more at W. C. K. Dot Org. We're also brought to you by the Ringer. Dot Com and the ringer podcast network. Where you can find a couple of new book basketball roads this week including the two thousand one draft which I did with Zach Lowe. Shawn's movie podcast is still humming the big picture. Chris Ryan's pop culture podcast. The watch that's still happening and also if you like Chris Ryan who's about to be in this podcast. His music exists podcast with chuck close where they break a lot of big picture ideas about music. You can find that exclusively on spotify. The government spend in bed with the entire telecommunications industry since the forties enemy of the State. Coming up next. This thanksgiving threat is closer signal sweeping transmitters or just a party. Animal secrets are bigger. You're too young watching Spiderman and the enemy is a law abiding citizen my whole life one day with you shoot produced by Jerry Bruckheimer. He took a seventeen directed by Tony. Scott Will Smith with Gene Hackman. The state rated R. Starts this Friday. Chris Reiner here. I'm bill since we're doing enemy. The state a nineteen ninety eight action classic Akebono watchable a movie that I watched on Monday to do take notes for this and then it was on last night Tuesday night and I was just like Oh all right and I watched the last forty minutes and my wife walked into the room and said. Didn't you just watch this? And I'm like yeah. And she goes. Why are you watch again? And I'm like 'cause it was on interesting. Just walked away in disgust Chris Ryan. Why is this movies so watchable because it's a techno version of north by northwest? It's just it's an incredible paranoid thriller of the classical sense of the hitchcock sense of the Coppola conversations since but it shot through the Tony. Scott everything is like turned up to twelve or thirteen helicopters everywhere and it pre-stages like a lot of stuff that would wind up being major themes of the twenty first century peak. Tony Scott Sean. No definitely not peak but it's in that second tier it's in that you're really really great isn't it? It's not top gun you know. It's not quite at that. It's not Beverly Hills cop two. You can't quite get to that God level but It's really great. And it's also a beautiful sequel. Also to the paranoia thrillers of the Seventies. It's like a big callback. Two parallel view three days of the condor. The conversation obviously with Hackman's character and even though it's way more sort of schizophrenic than those movies it's pretty much in dialogue with them the whole time so it's fun to watch them kind of in succession. Which is what I did. It's fun to Rewatch from Gene Hackman standpoint. And we've never really had the full fledged Gene Hackman conversation. The rewatch ables were about to do it. I just wanted to quickly say you know the time. We're in right now and and some of the civil liberties things that are happening. And and you know we're in the middle of the quarantine and people are wondering how much autonomy should the government have and stuff like this? This is all stuff that Tony Scott seems. Really Concerned about in this movie. And you think about this in the context of what was going on mid-nineties of some of these movies. The net which at some point in life is going to be a rewatch -able because it's just so bad shit crazy and disclosure was another one where you look like ninety four ninety five how people perceived of this technology and how it was coming and how could potentially change our lives and it was all like this could be bad. They'll be able to take all your stuff in five seconds enemy. The State is the smart version of that. They actually have a little more knowledge of how this stuff might works. Chris it's still bachelet crazy. Some of the stuff that happens that they're when they're doing the two hundred seventy degree lingerie shop camera which is like technology the NFL doesn't have now into the twenty. Th there are moments that were Jack. Black is like let me see what's inside of his bag from outer space but the film making style actually really lends itself to this. Because you can you can imagine. Twenty Scott really had an understanding of this material because his camera is always like poking in places where it shouldn't be you know what I mean. It's like those rack focuses. Those jump those jump cuts. Everything is kind of like trying to be more and more invasive. So I think he understood this on a kind of almost elemental level yet sean. Anything to add on that. Yeah I mean I think one of the fascinating things about the Ark of the movie is in Nineteen Ninety when it comes out. I think people thought well you know. Maybe it's a little bit too paranoid for its time. Let's see how things shake out. The Internet takes over our lives. More and more Y. Two K. happens or rather doesn't happen and people are like okay. We're over it technologies not that bad. It's actually very useful to our lives. We get more and more comfortable with it over the years. Everybody has their phone stitched their hand at all times. And then the last five years this incredible distrust. And this you know the movie becomes a lot more oppression and it's obviously completely like coke out version of Internet paranoia. The movie that we're talking about here but a lot of the ideas and the the notion of the NSA is doing and how it's peering in on our lives is more or less documentary. I mean it's really really close to a lot of the things. We got really concerned about that. You know you saw in a lot of the Edward snowden story and a lot of the wikileaks story and everything that happened in that sort of twenty thirteen to two thousand seventeen period. There's a lot of dialogue especially between Carla and Robert the Regina King and Will Smith characters. That is pretty much three or four years ahead of time of the kind of conversations people were having right after nine eleven in terms of if this is going to be what we're protecting ourselves against it's okay if they wanNA listen to my phone calls and people were having those kinds of debates about what is an acceptable amount of oversight or even surveillance it means quote unquote safety wire member in like ninety seven ninety eight when when Amazon starts to get going the concept of putting your credit card online was still pretty scary. Yes I'm GonNa do this and somebody's just GonNa take all my info and I remember being like fuck it. I make thirty five thousand dollars a year. Somebody steals steals. The worst that can happen. I'll lose a credit card. I'm going in on Ebay and I'm cleaning up with some of stupid things. That are available The we have it as a R- watchable seeing that we're going to dive into later. But the the the key kind of big picture point for why they made this movie. When when will smith goes to Hackman's getaway lehrer and Hackman says the government's been in bed with the entire telecommunications industry since the four days Dave infected everything they get into your bank statements computer files email listener phone calls everywhere every airwave more technology. Use The easier. It is to keep tabs on you. It's a brave new world out there. That's kind of it's twenty two years old. It's it's it's kind of true Gene Hackman calls it in this movie that is. That's not an accurate. Yeah it's pretty amazing how much it's looking ahead and I when you when you guys I saw it was there any part of you. The felt like this was a realistic depiction of the way that the government and technocrats worked together to spy on our lives. No I don't think so. I mean I remember especially in terms of its its relationship to technology. You have to remember like in ninety eight like I think. I had a cell phone in case of emergencies that I was supposed to use if I was in like a car accident to call AAA or something but I. I don't think I was even really like texting with any fluidity until the mid first decade of the two thousands I was still a beeper guy in one thousand nine hundred beeper pretty great. I gotta be honest. I don't think I had anything I don't. I don't even think I had a cell phone yet guide. Oh I might have had a phone in my car right and so there there is some extent. This is an extension of the stuff that happens. A Little Bit Matrix is ninety nine but this vision of a kind of William Gibson's cyberpunk future that we were about to enter into still felt really far away in at at this time yeah it was good fodder for movies and Hollywood definitely a as I said earlier was starting to get in on it in that ninety four range and couldn't put all the pieces together. This is the first I feel like big budget modern movie that felt some I- realistic and it still has some absurd moments which we'll get into some some positives here so shot says secretary peak. Tony Scott I'm GONNA say Secretary Peak Jerry Bruckheimer A fantastic cast will smith right as he's becoming a real a-list Alpha dog which will get into a second and then more most important gene Hackman so gene. Hackman turns down this film according to the research several times. And then Tony Scott ultimately convinces him to come in. We don't see gene Hackman until the fifty five minute marker this movie it feels like a Gene Hackman movie. A whole hour goes by before we even see his face but I wanted to start here. Gene Hackman's run from nineteen eighty six to nineteen ninety. Eight is lost in. The Shuffle of great movie runs of every actor. Here's here's here's a list hoosiers no way out. Mississippi burning narrow margin unforgiven wins an Oscar. Geronimo the firm Wyatt. Urp The quick and the dead Crimson tide get shorty the birdcage the chamber absolute power enemy the state show. Why did he? Why was he able to pick script so well what was it about gene? Hackman's I for. Oh I should be in this. It's a really good question. I think I don't necessarily know how he honed it. He was obviously very fortunate to come on the scene at a time when some of the best film makers of all time were putting guys like him in the center of movies guys weren't conventionally handsome who maybe were a little bit you know grungy or a little bit more unconventional But the thing that he does starting in the mid eighty s and that he really followed through in the late into the late nineties he keeps picking projects where he goes opposite a really traditional younger leading man and then goes toe to toe with them and then blows them off the screen. You know. We talked about him a little bit in the firm where he's kind of really kind of going toe to toe with crews and then Jeanne tripplehorn is well. He's doing some amazing weird erotic shit in that movie But like go through all of those movies that we're talking about the quick and the dead opposite Leo Crimson Tide Opposite Denzel Washington. You know the birdcage opposite Robin Williams. He keeps choosing these ends in some cases like In the chamber he just nihilists Chris O'Donnell like he just wipes the floor with Chris O'Donnell and he knows that he can be the Alpha even if he isn't the leading figure in the movie and it's such a smart move than most actors don't make when they enter their forties and fifties and sixties and he is so confident and so so powerful in his screen presence that it kind of doesn't matter if the movie's good or not. This is a movie that if he's not in it it might. It's just not going to be as good as it feels. Now he really. He's he's a rare guy who can elevate that kind of like be material into something that feels much more credible and crucially. I don't think he ever played those parts particularly like Murtaugh style he never said. I'm too old for this shit. All of those characters that you mentioned in those movies from Crimson Tide. The firm like yeah. They're getting a little bit older but they still have their fastball. And I think that sometimes older actors start taking a rules where they're really like in the twilight there in decline and they're trying to find someone new to kind of help them out in these situations and in all of those movies including this one it's not like he turns to will Smith's character in enemy of the state and he's like you figure it out. It's like he's the one who basically saves the day will. Smith's character picks up a cat. That's it you know. Hackman is the hero of this movie. Yes oh went toe to toe against Denzel too. Yeah you're right if you look at the Gene Hackman run that I just laid out. It's a little like Michael Jordan. In the nineties. He picks every superstar in the league to go against and Denzel probably plays them to a draw. Eastwood's eastward like I don't even know how you go ahead with Eastwood. You're just kind of in his movie but you're right. I think gene Hackman realized probably after hoosiers. I carry a movie with an awesome director in a big budget. Unless there's somebody else awesome in it like I'm almost. I gotta be Scottie Pippen. But when I'm Scottie Pippen I'll be. I'll be completely over qualified to be Scotty Pippin. The the the crazy thing is he's one of those actors I feel like he's Gene Hackman in every movie. It's not that much of a variance of gene Hackman. But yet each character feels different. But it's not like keys Daniel Day Lewis like oh man he became the Phantom Threat Guy. I always feel like it's gene. Hackman like a novel is legit Hackman. The other thing is he'd just as an age which is a joke. That's happened a million times. But he's just ageless. Yeah that's exactly what I was GONNA say. He was born to be sixty one years old when he when he came out of the womb. He looked like Benjamin Button and so he's so perfect for pretty much that he it's like he's frozen in amber from that run. You're talking about bill from like Nineteen ninety-six until his last movie. Welcome to Moose port. He looks exactly the same the whole time. For thirty five years it's fascinating. He and Robert Duvall were born to be thinning hair. Middle aged guys. You can't watch young Hackman or young duval rules. They just don't make any sense. We also we found out. We mentioned in previous podcast. We found out. I found the mcnichols book. That Dustin Hoffman Gene. Hackman and Robert Duvall all live together in one apartment for years in New York City which is the greatest documentary time. Nobody could because there's no footage but I just can't imagine them arguing about the phone bill and who's at grocery sin just yeah. Gene Hackman gets to the point. I think because he was in so many good movies that in the research of this they have an awesome cast partly because people found out gene. Hackman was going to be in the movie and that was like one of the reasons. Will Smith really want to do it. Because Gene Hackman was going to be a little bit of a pay cut for it right. And there's I just don't think a lot of actors in history that have hit that point which makes me wonder. Why don't we talk about Gene Hackman with the same reverence that we talk about Tom? Hanks Stenzel Pacino. Deniro these guys because I do feel Gene Hackman there for twelve thirteen years like if he's in your movie there was a credibility that just became inherent. It's a really hard stage to get to. How Sean how many guys right now do you think are in that at that point of their career. Is it less than ten? Like if Daniel Day Lewis Movie. There's there's like Oh shit. He's in it. Yeah I'll do it but is there anybody else Leo Leo. Every time he comes to play usually makes a great movie. He's got so few misses. I feel like he's in a different kind of conversation. Also don't think Gene Hackman is traditional movie star. The same way that somebody like Leo is. He's that perfect Combo of can be in the center of the movie. But as an actor's actor and like you said all these people wanted to come to the table to be in this movie because he was in it which is kind of strange because he doesn't share any scenes with anybody except for will smith like it's cool that Gabriel Byrne really wanted to be in this movie. But it's a good time with Jack. Black in the van you know at the very that's true but I don't. I really don't think that there's pretty much anybody who try to think of who could come out of retirement right now. That people will be like wow. I think Robert Redford. Is SOMEBODY STILL? Who when he whenever he makes a movie. People say I just really wanted to meet and get to work with. Robert Redford if you look at like the old man the gun and some recent films that he's made the people who are in those movies are so jazzed and Paul Newman. At the end of his career was the same way where people are like you know what even if twilight isn't that great. I just really WANNA do it. Because it's Paul Newman but that whole generation of actors. I don't know you like Dustin Hoffman Al Pacino Robert De Niro. Those guys have made a lot of movies. That just feel junkie. So it's not the same kind of feeling of specialness that Hackman brought to the table. Yeah Hackman never really got to the rocky winkle I I would say that the the era that you're talking about bill to it's worth noting that even in the thrillers of the pulpy or stuff that he was doing during that era you look at the credits on those movies like they were still pouring a lot of talent and a lot of money into movies like that back then which they don't really do any more but like every work in Tony. Gilroy are credited writers on enemy of the State. David People's wrote unforgiving we we've talked about the people who worked on the firm like he was going where the good scripts were and these were the good strips and then the scripts kind of dried up after this point because we go into a different era filmmaking bill. What's your favorite Hackman Hoosiers? I figured what about what's number two. I really like his performance in the firm. I thought it was the Mo we talked about it. When did the firm Rewatch bows but I thought it was probably the most interesting performance he did? It was kind of kind of nothing part and he made it. He made that guy so interesting. I'm a huge huge huge. No way out. Fan Huge. Yeah I love that movie. That to me is like a prototypical awesome thriller the way it moves. I would love to do it on. Rewatch ables at some point. I think he's really good in that and unforgiving would be my other one just from yeah from the eighties. Nineties run unforgiven was. I saw that movie with my dad and Cape Cod. And it was like a significant. It was like we're excited for this. It delivered it was incredible. It was clint in his ninety. Eight final stage of M J where it's just like the one last great clint performance of feel like and and Hackman so big in that move in so important. Who did that movie come out? That was like ninety ninety two. Yeah I remember early high school and I saw it with my my dad and so I would have been like fourteen or fifteen or something like that. That's the best movie I've ever seen only seen like one hundred movies that's right. My Dad was a huge eastward guy. So that was one of the Being the Eastwood for the sixty five to seventy five age guys now he was like the guy he had such a great run in the seventies. My favorite underrated. Hackman is this movie. Called night moves that he made five at. It's such a great like noir thriller where he plays like a private eye. Great Melanie Griffith performance. Is that because the seventeen year old Melanie Griffith performance straight. I was I was. I was serving that up for you. God heard Appalachia corleones Chris Writing crisis. We'll ask Sean movie nerd question for you. Yeah it's the unofficial sequel to the conversation and there's been a lot of film there'd stuff about was was brill. An enemy the state. Really this guy. All these years later and there are some hints and he's got same jacket at one point. He's got the Weird Lehrer. Do you consider this the unofficial conversation sequel. I mean I. I think that's what Tony Scott wanted you to feel when it was being written. I'm sure that was a part of it. And that's why they waited until Hackworth become available. I mean the two movies could not be more different like in terms of the way that they're made the you know. The conversation is so quiet and and paranoid in in a different kind of away. And it's so meticulous way that it's made and it's so specific to that time period and the idea of listening in on people and the privacy aspect of it wouldn't technology fell very handmade. This movie is so bombastic in the way that it portrays that stuff that you know. It's not so much a sequel as it is like if you just put steroids inside of the conversation you know you if you amplified it. Then turn it all the way to eleven. But you know. Edward Brill Lyle and Harry Call. They're all kind of like the same word. You know those those two names but the characters have so. The illusions are super obvious. I think it would have been if this was a true sequel to the conversation. The movie would have been about like Seth Green's character and we would have liked gone back to his apartment and seen his sad life when he logged onto like early message boards for people listening. You can find enemy. The states on Amazon prime for free. And it's also an cinemax and it's in the cable rotational now but the conversation is on Amazon prime to and at some point. When if Sean cared on the big picture he would go through Amazon prime and find like the best ten seventies movies. Because yes sean. When are you going to start caring more about the big picture shown care just put more effort into it for God's sakes like Downhill Racer? There's there's just to my I feel like nobody under forty might have made even know about Another good one is crackle which is free but you have to watch some ads on it. But they have a ton of seventy stuff. That's why I watched shampoo. There's a lotta great movies out there. That are pretty accessible Will Smith this was his young stage. Ninety five to ninety eight puts a bad boys Independence Day. Men In black enemy of the state also puts big willie style which was a huge job of ninety eight and was and it was also when he turned down neo to make wild west a classic. Imdb fork in the road. Such a bad call so I wrote this about Will Smith in two thousand eleven He's trapped in the fresh prince of bel-air set in the early nineties. Dreaming of starring in movies instead of selling a Alfonso Ramirez Jokes Smith and his manager James Lassiter steadied a list of the top. Ten grossing films ever. Here's what Smith told. Time magazine in two thousand seven. We looked at the list and said okay. What are the patterns? We realize that ten out of ten had special effects nine out of ten had special effects with creatures eight out of ten special effects with creatures in a love story. He moved shifts into. I am only making giant action thrillers movies with Aliens and I'm just an maybe an and that's it and I'm just going to grab this corner. Do you feel like will. Smith sold himself short. Sean well it's so funny. We just voted twenty minutes Hackman. We've never really had a deep hagman conversation. This is the first will Smith movie that we've ever done the rewatch ables which is just crazy. Because there's more coming I mean. He is one of the three or four most important people to movies in the last twenty five years especially for your regular moviegoing audience. He even to this day is a megastar. Bad Boys for life is the biggest movie of the year and it may end up becoming the biggest movie of the year depending on the way the movie shake out this year. I don't think that he sold himself short. The problem is is that he has much better taste in mainstream entertainment than he does in Prestige movies. And even when he got himself into a prestige movie he got a lot of bad luck by getting the not quite great version of that like Ali should be the greatest movie ever made. If you look at the people that are participating in the making of Ali and the story that they're telling in that movie it should be on paper the best movie ever and when you watch it you can't help but feel like why isn't this working. Why isn't a congealing? And it's not that will smith is bad. He's not bad but he brings so much baggage to every movie. Because we know that about him what you're describing bill this idea that he is like very meticulous and very strategic about what kind of movies he makes and every time he makes a choice. I can't get out of my head as if you're like okay. He's doing this so that he can do the next independence style movie. That's GonNa come after this and that's not you want more mystery. I feel like will. Smith doesn't have a lot of mystery. So when you take on serious work. It doesn't feel a strong. I Dunno Chris. What do you think about him trying to like? Make a pop entertainment like enemy of the state into something more prestigious. The thing I always notice about his filmography is the compression. So I mean I feel like he has like Tom. Cruise's entire career in six years and winds up where Tom Cruise eventually winds up. Now he gets there in two thousand and three where it's just sequels and special effects spectacles and a couple of misguided dramas. I. It's interesting anecdote you told. Bill is really fascinating because it's almost like he's trying to reverse engineer a successful career because yes that's true of what what these huge box office successes are. Actors themselves need to diversify the rules that they take in diversify the kind of movies that they make to keep themselves interesting to wind up in those kinds of big box office hits and I think that after Ali but even really after enemy the State. Ali's almost an outlier Smith. Just kind of like tries to build will Smith Industries which he has a lot of success doing but it doesn't make for very interesting movies. I I would argue. That Ali is the last great movie he makes right. Allie was probably a better six hour. Netflix series. Because it's trying to do so. Many things and Ali was is just so fertile. All the stuff all the different directions that could go. And it's just like zipping through you know the from basically nineteen sixty nine nine hundred seventy five frustrating movie re watchable and a lot of ways. I think it has some good sections but there's just too much too much territory to cover. It'd be like trying to do all three godfathers in two and a half hours. You know you can't do I. You know it's funny. He had some really good moments on fresh prince which some of them have lived. Don like the scene when he talks to Uncle Phil after his dad leaves again and he. Yeah when Ben Vereen breaks his heart he he unleashes like this unbelievable two minutes and I think everybody who liked that show including myself really had high expectations for him as a movie actor and then he does six degrees of separation. Which is a movie that I really like. And he's awesome in that and you start thinking like. Oh this guy's Denzel this guy he's going to have basically the the higher profile version of Denzel's career 'cause Denzel for eight nine years was toiling away and move at a lot of people I hadn't seen and it just didn't seem like he wanted it and I think I wrote when I wrote about him in two thousand eleven or whenever that was about when he turned down Django unchained. Jamie Foxx ends up taking the role. He just kind of never wanted the smoke. He never wanted to do anything to controversial. He was always protecting like the. Brenner reminds me a little bit of the Michael Jordan Knight. The Republicans don't buy sneakers staff where he was just like one appeal to the most people possible. And that's tough because I think he could have. I think there are a couple of choices he could've made. That really would have been incredible. You like what would we if he was in pulp fiction? You Know Jackie Brown. They think just playing bit parts being will Smith for twenty minutes in somebody else's movie like he just never seemed interested in that. It's too bad I think you just get to a place when you're a powerful person where there's an expectation that you should be at the center of the frame. All the time. The truth is is that he came up in a time in the last gasp of the mega movie star. Who could make a movie happen? And so he has sponsored bill for making almost every movie that he made happen up and up to and including now and you know we. We actually did talk about this a lot on the big picture last year because he was in Aladdin and Gemini Man and then bad boys for life early this year and it seemed like he spent the last couple of years. Just kind of channeling his past. You know trying to find a way to reflect on the things that he did. I mean Gemini. Man is a very weird movie. Some of it is great. I mean it's made by Ang Lee and some of it is just a mess and terrible and uses his odd technology to tell some of the story. But it's literally about a guy looking at a younger version of himself and trying to tell him not to make the same mistakes that he made and I wonder if we'll Smith has regrets. I wonder if he thinks maybe I have taken Django. You know maybe I should have pushed it a little bit. I do think that he was able to make a lot of very very good. Mainstream movies though. Which shouldn't be overlooked. I mean he he really made people happy for like fifteen years and even the stuff that I don't love as much like I am. Legend in Hancock like those movies are huge. Hits and people still really like them so I don't to say he's like a failure by any means he just. It does feel like we missed out on like two or three great things. I think there's like whether it's the choices that he in terms of the people. He works with filmmaker wise. Or I mean because you can see even in Concussion. The germ of a good idea. You know that could be his version of spotlight or dark water. Or whatever where it's like I'm GonNa make this like traditional nineties. Us against them Civil Action Style thriller and that movie obviously just kind of got lost in being memed and then forgotten because people are like. I'm going to watch the NFL. You know this doesn't change anything. I do think that he makes an interesting. Like we've joked about it. But focus is not a bad movie. It's like a pre entertaining movie. It's just like it should be those favorite movie of all time. It should be like the Fifteenth Best Will Smith Movie. Not The sixth. And that's and that's kind of where we are focused because it's like we'll Smith being will smith and we're nitpicking. He had one of the best careers of anyone in the last thirty years. He's a major giant movie star. He made a JILLION dollars. I think all of us are probably a tiny bit disappointed that he wasn't Denzel or or a Leo like that. He didn't challenge himself Tomorrow that's why I wrote the piece in two thousand eleven and the piece that I wrote was born out of At at lunch with lean Goldman and I had asked him because he always used to read about movie stardom and who are the biggest movie stars and how that would change year to year and his concept. Izzo is how many guys could actually just open a movie. Just because they're on the poster and by two thousand eleven golden was saying it's only will Smith. He's the only movie star we have. He's the only person that if he's on a movie poster. That movie will make one hundred fifty million dollars now. I think we probably have a couple more stars you know. I feel like Leo. Any movie he's in is going to be taken seriously I that's because he only makes serious movies true But I think there's other people who are kind of conditional stars you know athletic depending on the movie if it's the right kind of everything if it's gone girl and he's the centerpiece of a movie that's also a fincher movie in. It's really well done. And all the people all the pieces around he can be an a list movie star but he can also be the guy in runner runner I think what what was interesting about will Smith was. It didn't matter if the movies were good or not. They still made money. I am legend was not a good movie. I saw it in the theater. You know because it's like the next will smith movies out so really fascinating career and you can see in this movie there he's GonNa come up in the In the new award there's going to be. Will Smith came to see. He's he's a major star and he's still kind of figuring out who is as an actor. I thought Ali was the best performance of his career. I that some of the stuff he did in that movie was really great I certainly think it's the best like film of his career. Yeah but I mean should will Smith of won an Oscar. I would argue. Yeah at he should have been in a movie that he was able to deliver an Oscar performance. The fact that he is going to end up what did he get one Oscar nomination for Ali. That's it he lost the Denzel. Yeah into print in training day that year and that's it like that. That feels disappointed to me. I mean he's got to figure out a way to be an actor in his fifties. You know I think he's he and crews are as Chris was saying like they're now at the same place even will Smith got there ahead of him. They're both still just trying to make super mainstream movies and trying to tap into an audience. That was very powerful in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty. Sometimes it works at times. It doesn't Aladdin and bad boys for life were huge hits and Gemini. Man was a huge flop. And so it's a little bit hard to see what choices he makes going forward but I completely agree with you. He said Bill. Which is that in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. He's just not ready to go toe-to-toe with Hackman like he's just there are some scenes where you're like whoa. He has not refined his shit yet where he's trying to amp it up any scene where he's yelling in this movie and trying to be serious econo- takes me out of it a little bit because he's ready to do that kind of work and he actually like some of the humor in this movie is is. Improv from him that he asks or he he inserts into the movie like some of the lingerie jokes and stuff like that. I do think 'cause we're Kinda ragging on him a little bit. It's worth noting that a time of any enemy of the state he's coming off of Batboys Independence Day was the third one men in black men in black so he's arguably the biggest movie star in the world and the list of people who can convincingly be a labor attorney and outrun a Camaro in the fort. Mchenry tunnel is a list of like people. It's Tom Cruise in and will Smith. I mean whether or not it's because Leonardo Capris never tried to do that in a movie whatever but like that list is super short. Where you're like. I believe that this man is a lawyer and also like an action star. Who can jump around roofs? I don't feel like we're ragging on them I to me. It's like we're talking about him having a chance to be have one of the all-time great careers and from a success. Box Office standpoint. He had there. I think I'm probably lower on them. Then you guys. I'm just saying that like in this movie. It's just like oh you can kind of see the specialty Special Spice. That he has yeah. I wish he had challenged himself a couple more times. He so right now. He's fifty one years old. When Gene Hackman made this movie he was sixty eight. So you've got seventeen years of movies for will Smith now to take on those projects that we're talking about to do that kind of stuff to use his power to challenge himself and make interesting movies. It's not I mean. He's actually fairly young because he got started so young so. I don't think that we need to throw in the towel on him. Having like one of the great acting careers by any means. I just hope that he doesn't I hope he stops trying to replicate the success that he had at the time that we're talking about here. I forgot to mention. I really liked him in pursuit of happiness. The the movie when he's basically homeless trying to get a job with his son and I thought he did really good stuff in that and I can't remember if he got nominated for an Oscar or not but I thought that was an unusually good performance by him and at that point. He knows what he's doing. And when we talk about an enemy of the state where he's you know he's he's kind of self parody and a couple of these scenes I think by the time they made that movie he's peak command of his powers. I wish he had done Django. I think that's such a fascinating fork in the road for him and I just would love to have seen him with Tarantino and you think like the choices that Leo made. I don't think I don't think Leo's necessarily better worse actor than Will Smith He. He's probably a better act. I don't know if he's got a higher upside. The Most Smith Does but Leo is always so careful about working with awesome directors and trying to surround himself with the best people like he was fanatical about it and at some point. It didn't seem like will Smith WANNA do that. let's take a break and then we're going to talk about The categories because we have a lot to get through here AIDS Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make sure you're listening to podcasts on spotify. Here's how you do it. I search for your favorite podcasts. On spotify APP they have a library of over seven hundred fifty thousand podcast this point. So let's say you're searching for the Bill Simmons podcast with Rewatch ables Dave Chang Shower. Binge abode of the ring are NFL. Show once you find them. Click on the follow button. That's as subscribe then. Click on those letters near the top of the APP. That say podcasts. You can't miss it all the PODCASTS. You're following will pop up separated by episodes downloads and shows wait. It gets better on spotify. You can adjust the speed of the pods to seven. Different speeds zero point five. Times IS THE SLOWEST. Actually sound drunk zero point five. Listen this survey Cast on the Ringer High Kasteler. Yet you can get drunk bill. You can also do zero point eight times one point two times. Which is my favorite. Everyone sounds like they had a good cup of coffee. You can do one point five times you can do two times and if you're completely insane you do three times. Here's what that sounds like. Why would you do that? I think that's how we communicate with aliens anyway. Spotify ZAP connects directly to many of the best automobiles in the world. It even as a car play feature. That's pretty cool. It's really really good. Best of all. It's free download spotify and any device and you are good to go look. I don't Wanna APP. Shame you but you should actually be embarrassed if you not listen to podcasts on spotify and if you don't believe me listen to junk bill at zero point five speed. Zip Serve Back Tell Junk Bill. The Bill Simmons podcast. Listen on spotify. Okay so we mentioned. This movie is now known as being way ahead of its time because discounts at three years for nine eleven comes out before the Patriot. Act Edward Snowden All the things that was bringing up a national security and privacy was the first time a really successful movie did that ninety million dollar budget made two hundred and fifty million Roger Ebert three stars. I bet he's coming back after the Tommy boy disaster which is GonNa Stain his two thousand twenty. And it's really difficult really difficult to come back from that. That was the comeback. Shirley loved total recall. We did that one last. And now he's he's two for two here. He said quote by and large the movie works. Most re watchable seen I have. I have five. There's another one throat in The Jason Lee chasing when they break into his apartment he escapes is just like Tony. Scott just flexing it. It's it's I want no other director Tony Scott for those six minutes targeting North on rooftop Colombian eighteen support over running camera cuts Barry Pepper. Just being evil. Things is on the roof. He's hopping is going through said laundry stories stealing a bike. He's coming around. Oh there's a bus. This scene is Apex Mountain for running out of the back of stores. But you never really think about this but like do I guess all stores. Do you have a back door? But like they find every single one movie. Yeah it's really great At some good Jason Lee but This is this is on. I'm watching it if it's I I I'm in for these seven minutes. What's weird is. It's really the only seen in the first fifty minutes of this movie. This movie is really stacked for the second half so I got that one. I have Hackman Meeting Will Smith and your phone was A. Gps Tracker Pulses at twenty four Gigahertz. I don't know what that means. It's like a low. Jack only two generations better than what the police have. And what does that mean? Speak English? Obviously not that. Well kind of a jerk. Aren't you means the. Nsa can read the time off your fucking wristwatch. Bullshit Greet Hackman introduction. He's immediately throwing ninety nine miles an hour. He's picking. He's picking bugs off will Smith's close staff reminds me how much I love things when things are bugged that the whole It's a it's a device that works every movie. There's an incredible job by the Asian hotel couple with Wolf smelling in there to hide. And they don't know what's going on but they're kind of weirdly enjoying a and then you got the Will Smith climbing from room to room balcony the balcony and seth green kind of narrating it like Jeff probst and laughing when he's the Guy. He got down to the fiftieth floor. Like I can't believe this. It is a little Jeff prosise. He's again Boston Rob Shopping and then it ends with the Insane Hotel classify which will come up later and picking it and then says that an ambulance escape Hannibal. Lecter ask very satisfying seven minutes third. Seen Smith go into the getaway. Lehrer Hackman's getaway layer. I think if I could Redo one thing about this movie I would've wanted to spend at least fifteen minutes in there and maybe cut to scenes from the first forty five minutes. There's so many questions I had. I just wanted to be there longer. It goes fast. But that's just a great action seeing the building blowing up another classic. Tony Scott. They're going away. The fucking thing folds completely. They end up escaping on a train. There's punching Foreseen I just like when somehow they had gone to breakfast after this Hackman and Smith. It's kind of out down for a second. It's like hey when it gets a big sure at a bar that let's cats come in. It's just it's back to normal for five minutes here. Meanwhile Jack Black has the hand of God from the sky could follow them anywhere and He does have via Kong analogy of you got you got to win the wars. You know you could win win the small battles get them on their heels you on guerrilla warfare trying to use your weaknesses strengths. Such as well if they're big in your smaller than your mobile and they're slow your hidden and they're exposed the only fight battles. You know you can win. Capture the weapons and then you use them against the next time you grow stronger as they grow weaker I like that and then the fifth one is is. I know. Chris's favourite seen in this. When Will Smith crashes the the Mafia dinner And True True Romance to exactly Jon voight sitting there and size Mars just eating. He wants it back what he wants. Could we have some privacy? Please maybe should consider you. And it's not one of those things where he's like. Hey man this is a. We're filming a lot of take. Sarah I don't know if I can each this much spaghetti sizemore psych in animal. What can I do how much? How much pasta can I eat? I I just WanNa know for that size. And we're seeing. Is the sweat real or was that makeup? Like were they like. You're Kinda like your secreting lot during this seat. And it's just you just reeks of garlic in that room. It's just unbelievable. He's he's gaming is gave me that whole saints. So that's what I have for five. We can go through them in a second any other watchable you throw in there. I would definitely nominate the opening scene. Which makes you think it's going to be a different kind of movie. But you get five minutes of Jason Robards and Jon voight going toe to toe which I love. Also I've mentioned before on the show that anytime you open a movie at a wedding. It's going to be great. I also think if you open a movie with a mysterious conversation on a Park Bench. It's also going to be great. This has this like JFK. There are some great scenes in movie history and this one is really really great as you're watching these two kind of a really famous historical actors feel each other out robarts playing this like very chuck. Schumer esque kind of powerbroker in in Congress and real bad vibes. Yes yes A grand agree a grand man of the Senate and then the kill the Berry. Pepper needle kill is great stuff like the movie really kicks into high gear as soon as robarts catches a needle in the neck and his poor dog is dog. It's left behind as the car gets pushed off into the lake. I love that whole sequence. I think it's really really well done. Tough break for the dog that sequence. Also it's like you have to wait like fourteen minutes before you see an actor. You don't recognize this movie because you've got Loren Dean who is really big. Coming off billy bathgate. God it's pepper. It's Ian Harte. Who had been? I think he was in backbeat. The movie remember the movie. I think he's leading that movie and like an robards and boy and you're just like what the fuck did they just empty the entire bank for this? I still have some Loren Dean rookie cards. Turn Out Abbas Ninety. Four flare rookie never happened. What's going on Ebay? Not Allow twelve bucks six bucks. The dog tough break go into the lake with Dad. Maybe take we weird weird weird movie for pets a lot of them. A lot of imperil. I don't think Mallory Could Watch this movie. Do they? Tony Scott Peck Guy or not pet guy. I think he had like a probably like a really rustic like outdoor dog. Who just came around every once in a while very self reliant? Yeah Chris. What was your favorite mostly watchable sitting down. It's gotta get the Jason Lee Pancake Man. It is one of the all-time chasing all-time fucking bike truck deaths. 'cause they're like this guy made it? He got away as trying to think. What director is better suited for that seven minutes? And then Tony Scott. If we're doing like a fantasy draft he's got to be the first pick absolutely. Yeah there's like a little shuttled accidents. No because he I like Hackman is obviously best known. Probably for the French connection and that is one of the all-time chase sequences in this movie. Features a couple of the all time chase sequences. My most watchable scene is also a chase sequence when they're escaping the layer. It's basically the lair getting to see all everything that he has. And then when they get in the car and they drive away which and then the movie kind of turns into a prequel unstoppable where it's like a train movie for a second but the moment that they have in the car together where Smith CA Smith's character is like what the hell is happening. Bro I blew up the building and we'll miss like why he's like because he made a phone call happening a billion which is like the the trailer moment in the movie you know like every time. You saw the trailer for that that moment you were like. I got a fucking see that movie. That movie looks awesome. Gene Hackman is blowing up buildings. I'm in so that's definitely my favorite. Iso have that as my sainted because to me. This is a hackman movie. I so for most watchable. He has to be in the scene. And as I said I love the lair. Soon as they're in there I'm just saying they have like Faraday cage. Yeah Will Smith kind of figured out at least had to go toe to toe with hacking and a little bit at that point. And there's some good back and forth this good one liners. That's like to me. That could have been the whole movie. You have just started the movie when Hackman comes in and I honestly would have been okay. Lose THE JASON. Lee's seen in some other stuff but All right what's age the best. Lisa Bonet Yeah just an icon capital. I I kind icon iconic icon from the Eighties Mount Rushmore. You could do your four from the eighties. You can have the girl from just one of the guys Kelly Preston eight go any direction. You want four but Lisa. Bodet has to be on the Mount Rushmore. She just has to. I will never understand why she was one of the biggest stars in the world every person from the eighties. Who was my age? Younger older was in love with her Angel Heart We don't need to get into But she's she comes back here and it's like oh she married Lenny. Kravitz basically fell off. The map had a kid and then comes back in this. Just reclaim your territory. Like she looks amazing ever seen with hers. Great that's it. That's by Lisa Bonet Monologue. I like that He. He has cheated on his wife with her. That's very realistic. I liked that. They aren't like no. It's just all it's all a set-up it was all like a ally told by the NSA like these. Like I did cheat on you for years ago. With Lisa Bonet happened and justifiable. Cause it's Lisa Bonet. I feel like everywhere saying all right. Yes if it's a less less attractive person than the most beautiful person who has ever lived than you might take issue with it but you're looking at Lisa bone annually. This is crazy. It's also just downright eerie. How much she looks exactly like her daughter. Like at the same age I mean they. She looks like Zoey Crab in this movie and obviously they are mother and daughter but further to be such a one to one replication of that look is so confusing the other thing too is Wilson Scott kind of a checkered history with romantic leads in his movies and he doesn't always cast the right person. It's not always clear if he has like sexual chemistry with the woman opposite him and and this movie. You both credibly by that. He cheated with Lisa Bonet and then he's married to Regina King who also is like a good enough actor to be going toe to toe with him even though this is way before she won an Oscar and was as well known. But she's coming off Jerry Maguire. And she's kind of staking territory as like the Regina King of Jean King Time and You like by him as a romantic lead in the movie. In a way that you don't always and a lot of his stuff if focus is the only other one when him? Margot Robbie really had. I'm I'm going to sell focus to our audience until the bitter end. Lisa Bonet so beautiful that even when she had a child it was just a child had to be beautiful. Her jeans was gonNA overpower. Dad Is of course she marries Lenny Kravitz Handsome Guy. And when it was like they're having a kid. I think everybody's reaction was like. Oh that's GONNA be the most beautiful child anyone's ever had and it was. He should've challengeable if she'd like. Maybe she should marry Giamatti till like really challenge yourself. Eric Ricochet sick. I have no idea why she wasn't in more things. I don't know anybody who is one hundred percent in on her and I love Lisa Bonet so there you go another. What's age the best little late nineties? Jason Lee does I love. Mallrats chasing Amy Kissing Fool Enemy. The state almost famous dogma. Just rips it off and five years and then when does he do he goes to? Tv like after that right like a couple of years after that. Eminem is earl really liked him. I think he was. He was he was like a bill. You always talk about loving Chandler on friends and like br identifying with the wise ass character he was like the Sundance wise ass to me. He was like the hipster wise ass and anybody who thought that they were a clever sarcastic asshole like we're was modeling themselves after Jason Leak Actors. Unfortunately he. He reaches kind of a grim fate in this movie. But for the most part he always going to seem like the smartest guy in the room. I I always loved him. I love his one. Line of obviously improvised dialogue. Like fuck aid duck. Well the funny thing is he could have played like eleven parts in this movie. He could have any of the guys. Any of the bad guys sarcastic. Bad guys Another what's age the best berry peppers. Evil sprinting face. It's tough to really look evil. When you're running full speed like very few people can have the sneer in place at Barry Pepper. Does it. He a nice little run here. I I really liked the Roger Marris Mickey Mantle Movie. I thought that was one of the best. Hbo Movies and I Love Twenty Fifth Hour. I thought he was great in that Incredible and Saving Private Ryan. Yeah and then and he had a couple more in there and then I think it's just got weird battle. Battlefield Earth happens and the wheels kind of come off but Nice little right. He's knock around guy who's really good in the troika of of Scott Caan Jacob you see and Barry Pepper is really like it might be Apex Mountain for White Guy Flops. Yeah I got kind of hair coming up later okay. Let's talk about the hair soon. Another words age the best which it will be my winner for this. The INCREDIBLE SUPPORTING CAST. This is like one of the best. Imdb pages you take ten IMDB pages on a desert island. This'll be one of the ten. There's like twenty five people at this movie. It's ridiculous you WANNA run down. I mean some of the highlights. Yeah Jon Voight Jason Lee Regina King Barry Pepper. Seth Green Tom Sizemore. Gabriel Byrne Jack. Black Lisa Bonet. The God learn Dean. Jason Robards Philip Baker Hall. Scott Caan Jamie Kennedy and Chris's Guy James gross how `Bout also just like Anna Gunn Skyler white just show enough as John F. in there. Yeah I mean it's sort of bizarre because there are some movies really. Oh that's so incredible like Alec Baldwin. Did that scene in Glengarry. I totally get it. I don't know why Philip Baker Hall is in this movie. You know it's like there's actually no reason for Jason Robards to do one scene and get stabbed with a syringe. But they're all in it and it just makes it a movie. I personally love when movies do this because I think you do the half ass version. Where like forty percent of those people are in a and then you do sixty percent names or younger actors. Whatever I like when they go. We're going all in the first twenty parts of this movie are going to be people who are really good at their job. It's been nineties Bro. Goon squad man. Yeah Yeah you could have fielded a hockey team with the guys who were who were playing the NSA agents in the FBI military guys or the military guys. I mean it's just such an incredible crew bill. It's also like a real feat of good casting not just because of the big names that are involved because most of the people that are in in in those vans and looking at the people all the young actors. Just hadn't really done a lot like Seth Green Jack Black Jamie Kennedy Jake Berry Pepper. All of those people were not famous. I mean there were like yeah. I know a little bit well known to people but it it. Those are smart choices to to dot the movie with all these people who knew. We're going to have bigger careers. Yes it's true. I have another what sage. The Best Hackman's his sneaky tricks in this movie like how he always looks down or straight ahead because the satellite is looking at him. I Like I could've done another ten minutes in this movie off. Brill's little tricks from his institutional knowhow of you know. I don't even know how somebody would think of how to do that. any other. What stage the best? I guess I think just the cheese sequences in general of really just the best like the the this is i. I can't I can't verify this with my own. My own accounting work but the average shot length in this movie is apparently like two and a half seconds. And you feel that in the In the chase sequences where? It's just like unstoppable which we've also done watchable as we did that with Tarantino and we talk a lot about how you always know where the train is and like. It's everything is like these sort of wider master shots that you're constantly oriented in this movie you have no sense of orientation like it'll be cut away and there's a helicopter flying and then it's a cut away and there's a guy running down the hallway and then picking up a phone and then you're in an office somewhere in the. Nsa disorientation is supposed to put you in. Will Smith's shoes so that you never know where the danger is coming from. And I think that that just works great such a great addition to the chase dynamic. I have I forgot one other. What's age the Best Washington DC is an action thriller setting. It has a batting average of a hundred every time it works. It's the same kind of beats the wide shots of some of the recognizable things. The parks the highways with weird shit going on on the side. Just everything. And it's one of those places when you actually go to Washington DC. You just feel like you're in a movie. 'cause it's such a perfect setting no way outs and other one where they it's like. Virginia that whole dmv area though is just works for me for movies but for what stage the best I would go Lisa benet one and the cast too. I mean the whole premise of the movie has to be number one right the whole idea of the government watching and your technology invades our lives. That seems like pretty profoundly aging. Well you're right. I'm still going Lisa Bonet one. What's age the worst? The movie does really get going for twenty solid minutes after. The robot's saying it's just a I would have rather lost some stuff in the first twenty. And we gotTa Brag Kado seen though you know. Yeah it's just like come on Episode PBS Nova titled Spy Factory. They basically shot to hell a lot of the stuff in this movie. With the NSA's capabilities basically the agency can intercept transmissions That's about it. None of the stuff that they're doing the satellite. I'm not even sure you could do now. Much less than nineteen ninety eight. Like the Victoria's secret seen in two thousand one the NSA director at the time general. Michael Hayden said quote. I made the judgment that we couldn't survive with the popular impression of this agency being formed by the last will Smith movie they actually did a PR campaign to combat. Some people coming out of this movie thinking Oh the. Nsa can do all this and then it turns out they probably could Most of it did ended in other words as the worse. Scott cons hair. I don't know what what's going on. He's got a beehive on his head. It gets so crazy as the movie goes on like it gets. Yeah making. And they're making jokes in the movie about Scott what's age. I'm not sure why Jon voight characters become p whipped in the second half of the movie where his wife's just like just like killing him and it's like I'm supposed to be afraid of Jon. Voight Jon Voight is evil mastermind of this whole thing and his wife's yelling at him because he didn't bring home milk and eggs like. Why is this in here as they try to humanize Jon voight character? We should ask. I think there's a reason for a bill. I think she's obviously thirty years younger than him. And his second wife and they have a young child and he is sexually enslaved Tan a gun. And that's why but why walks into the bedroom with a glass of warm milk getting ready for a native action with with a skyler white. I don't know when Jon voight character actor started. It was somewhere in the mid nineties but this becomes a really nice. He's basically the championship bout holder of evil character in the movie where all the way through the varsity blues but you can basically put him in any movie and he could be the evil guy congrats to him for that any other possible. I feel like right mission. Impossible is where your cracks the code on that and then he does it like ten times in a row. What's age the worse anything else you WANNA do? You WANNA go with void being whipped. That is that is that aging the worst. I'm GonNa go with that just because I'd never never thought of it before and it's still podcast casting. What if this is a familiar? Refrain for ninety s movies. Tom Cruise originally signed on to star in this movie and then had to drop out because of eyes wide shut like fifteen movies every compilation of Tom Cruise performances Mel Gibson and George Clooney also considered for will Smith's part and will Smith took the role because he wanted worker Gene Hackman. He even took a reduced salary and he picked this movie over. Stake is a movie that I know deep down. Chris Really Likes Oh yeah for sure. Yeah Sean Connery the backup choice for Gene Hackman. The National Security Agency what happens if connery and Hackman flip roles in this and the rock. That's pretty interesting. I think it worked out correctly. 'cause this is a better movie and it needed. Gene Hackman more and I liked the conversation parallels but as you could have your right. They could've flipped gene. Hackman if Gene Hackman's in the rock it's a much better movie. I love the rock. It's one of my favorites connery's Kinda going for that movie. Have we done the rock as no? I don't think so. That could be a fist fight to see. Who's hosting that one? We're going to have a fifty five persons zoom zoom for rock. It's my favorite Michael Bay movie by Far Best. That Guy Aka the Joey Pants award. There's really only two nominees Anna Gunn from breaking bad. Who is I just need? Do people know her as well to rights wife or they know her as a gun. I need a ruling. It's like most people know her as Seth Bullock's away on deadwood. So I think the first. She's Deadwood is the first time. I really noticed her and then obviously she goes on and does does bring back so is she in a gun or is she breaking bad lady. Thanks you may be in a gun. I think she's she's like Tom sure well. Then that leaves us with the guy from the Bronx Tale. Lebron Kado no they. Just don't miss the guy for the Bronx Tale who's us on the Sopranos and then went to jail so he has to win this. The Vincent handed they knew award is it's lively. It's something this category. We have Every time sizemore seen this is not that lively it. This isn't one of one. Well there's some will smith moments especially where now the Philip Baker Hall Speech? Seen with will Smith when I for inexplicably he just dials it up to nineteen and does the whole you ever been off in the shower jazz. Ever beat off in the shower Bryan have any homosexual thoughts buddy. That is none of my fucking business. You Damn Right. It's not I love my wife and I love my son with no equivocations. And that's none of your fucking business. Either I've straight. He's like brick Tamblyn. I Don I don't know what he's doing it's it's really bad but The totality of size board. This movie he has to be the winner. I think bill you ever like if I ever like mildly disagreeing with you on a conference call you scream you ever paid off in the shower thousand percent right so we'll go size by the word apologies to barry pepper at his evil. Sprinting face and apologies to Tom. Sizemore an epic probably cocaine avid performance. But at least as in this movie throwing a hundred thirty miles an hour and she's Dion raiders everytime there's nothing to some of whom you don't have quite so complicated a history. I don't know why she wasn't a more scenes. I feel sad every time. She's dead. More than robards. Yeah the recasting couch. If you could recast any part where would you recap I would recast the robards part with Lisa Bonet? I think it just gives it a different. It gives it a different kind of Heaviness in meaning if if is is replacing the man who popularized Ben Bradlee as one of the Great Eugene. O'neill thespians of all time. You gotta get Bone Day batting leadoff in this movie. I have my recasting coach. I would have LISA BONE. And Will Smith switch parts and make will smith though the person she had the affair with any POPs in three times and Lisa Pony Lisa. Bonet is the hero of this movie and Regina King is actually her husband. And it's just the Lisa Bonet action vehicle because I wanted that my whole life and it never happened so Regina King is actually her wife or Regina. No no the Regina character would be like Blair underwood Y- pick pick Omar Underwood so one. Tony Scott. Kind of makes that movie a couple of years later. He makes Domino which is basically cure nightly playing the bad ass figure at the center of the movie also day. This is a rare movie where I feel like you could scramble the whole cast. You could take every actor and put them in a different part and it would be kind of entertaining like if you put Jason Lee in the Will Smith Part and you put Hackman in the robards part and you put voight in the Hackman part like you could move everybody around like puzzle pieces and it's still be entertaining. That's how much talent is inside the movie. If you put Jack Black and the Regina King Part Frit Paklin easily could have been the Jon. Voight part easily. And He's played that part. I mean that's basically the no way out I'm glad I'm glad they stuck. Were they were half? As senator research mentioned. Aaron Sorkin Henry. Bean Antoni go right. Performed unaccredited rewrites of the script. Descript bounced around the. Nsa refused to cooperate with the production. What a shocker. The portable video game. Nsa being like yeah sure guys. Let's see we can do? Is We have a lot of resources. Owns yes the portable video game system that Will SMITH SON USES IN THE DISK? That won't work was an NEC turbo. Express a gameboy competitor that Failed Miserably Thomas Reynolds the Gene Smith character? I don't I'm sorry. Thomas Reynolds the Jon voight character. His birthday in the movie was nine eleven. Nineteen forty zero is when a bell labs researcher George. Stitz demonstrated the first remote operation over phone line of computer machine. Just weird three years later. Nine eleven happens That's got an research apex mountain weirdly like nobody except for Post cosby show. Lisa Banana. Don't really know what else he would put here for Apex Mountain. Da Guys Avenue candidates. Lisa Bonet is a mountain is the day that Zoe Kravitz. Was born. Just for the record would you? Would you give this apex? Mountain for Bodey Healthman Jacob UC? I feel like JB. Uc has a couple of. Isn't he in Predator to Starship troopers is Jacob? Uc's Apex Mountain that's right. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah are you guys cool. With changing apex. Mountain to Lisa Bonet is apex. Mountain sponsoring having a sponsor. Or do you want to talk a little bit about how you feel about? Lisa Bonet Ed. I don't feel like you had a chance to share my only chance ever on the rewatch unless you've ever been until we know Angel Heart. Yeah yeah that's like season. Twelve of the REWATCH ables severe like Angel Heart Lewis. Cypher Lewis Cypher. Get in other than that. I don't I don't really know Apex bound. I don't feel like every bit anybody's it's bigger powers Pinette. I think it might be Apex Mountain for the DMV on film with the exception of all the presence minutes the one of the Great DC Baltimore movies all right pick a nets. I have a few. I'm just going to read this from wikipedia. This is the premise of the movie. The first scene. Nsa official Jon voight meets with us. Congressman Jason Robards in a public park to discuss support for a new piece of counter-terrorism legislation the US Congress is pushing that dramatically expands the surveillance powers of intelligence agencies over individuals and groups. Robards believes it would destroy the privacy of US citizens Reynolds Watson NSA promotion. So he has his team murder Hamersley. Are there better ways to get a promotion than murdering a US congressman and a park? Just feels like maybe maybe this could have been massaged a little easier than an assassination. Basically what are your thoughts on that? Why is he present? Why is he there for that? Like obviously it makes a great scene where they sit on that park bench like I talked about. But in in what universe would have the deputy director of the NSA be present for the assassination of a sitting congressmen. That's insane it's insane and it's like basically. The premise would be well if I can talk them into this. We won't kill him but you already told like the three other. People were killing this guy if he doesn't go along with it and then he does go with it. And it's like cool and just fucking murders congressman. Feels like this would have been a bigger deal. They don't really do it in a very like private area like did they didn't really check out the other side of the river and that leads to the second ridiculous part of that scene. Which is they're borrowing from blowout Travolta which barred from a whole bunch of other movies but Jason Lee. Just filming a park that day just putting his camera the whole concept of these cameraman's migrations ban. Yeah Oh wow wait. There's murder at that park. I should check the tape. Like Oh is a flimsy polemis premise. For a movie And then him going back to get the tape and somebody studying it and realizing like oh. Oh that's a little Dicey but it is. Tony's got action movie. Why did will Smith handle the first mafia meeting so aggressively and so badly that whole scenes? Just weird I know they had to introduce sizemore. And all those guys to you know to bring them back later but he's just so kind of agro in that and I didn't really understand as a lawyer. Why are you even playing that way that scene? I've seen this movie twelve times. I'm always confused by just that. Whole Arc will. Smith seems like a really bad lawyer. He just seems like a bad lawyer. Yeah I'm not sure I understand all the like the labor law stuff. That's going on in there in the beginning. I don't think James Grow does either. My picking is human velocity in this movie. There's a scene in the during the during the Jason Lee Chase. Barry Pepper is nearly keeping up on foot with Jason Lee on a bicycle for about like thirty seconds. Like where it's like. Yeah is is he? Steroid Era Ben. Johnson like it is unclear. Jason Lee is barely getting away from a man. Sprinting after while he's riding a bike and then later when they're in the tunnel will smith out runs a Camaro so like I just think that there's a couple of really like luke playing fast and loose with like the ability of man to out pace machine. Sean what's favorite scene? Ever in a tunnel where the guy escapes by going through one of the sewage sewage things and the guys are running and he's gone and they go dare. That obviously a fugitive the great one of the greatest sequences ever but shawshank probably got a claim to. I always like when the That that just that trustee sewage saying that opens up and the human body can just easily fit through it and they get if anyone could face like wha- that should be where like the entire homeless population lives of that easy to just go and tunnels the hotel classified with Will Smith. How many times will smith catch on fire in this movie? Three twice twice. He's just GonNa First of all what's your plan. I'm going to set myself on fire in this closet. Like how is that going to play out then? Second how does he not immediately die and then third? Why doesn't he have like major burns? It's just kind of glossed over. It's rough now. You guys think this was the inspiration for Tony. Scottsville men on fire. Maybe maybe he was seen as like I have an idea and then we mentioned earlier. The Jack Black going two thousand twenty did Odell Beckham. Cross the planning the goal line. Let's use all of our cameras in the end zone with the seventy degree. Turn just magically. Does this fucking lingerie show but the bachelor the Voice of reason this movie where he's like? Yeah but maybe it's not in his bag. You'll be great John good point. Yeah let's forget about this whole out. It may be pound for pound the single most ridiculous scene of any nineties action movie other than the bus and speed being able to make that jump in the over the missing part of the highway and somehow going up and going fifty yards and landing. This two hundred seventy degree replayed technology. Jack Black has. I'll never understand whether ever thought this was a good idea to put the movie. Is the security camera the underwear store freeze their rotator? Seventy five degrees around the verdict freeze their times. Ten focus on the drop. Now it'd be ridiculous in two thousand twenty people that's weird it's one of the all-time enhance sharpen enhance enhance like there were so many movies where you would. The camera would move in closer and closer and closer and you would get incredible resolution on things that you would never be able to see even if it was ten feet away from you in person like yeah that that technology actually does not exist. Now I have a by last picking. It is just I just feel like pets. Play too big a rule in this movie babe. The cat great cat actor but really gets a lot of screen time and there's a lot of like going back for the cat stuff that really drives me nuts and these movies and just find like the poor she the dog that Carla and Robert. Half to be kind of annoying. I have a tiny picking net. I just don't feel like Regina King is forgiving him in the garage. When the why. Why is she wearing lingerie? Why isn't she matter? He had an affair. They got through the counseling. He still hanging out with this person there. There are pictures of them from the day. He's still lying to after the affairs over and then she does the whole. I miss you baby. Does that whole thing? It's like I I just feel like there's GonNa be a longer grudge. Especially because the hottest woman of all time I. She's just going to be madder. She's not forgiving him. Best quote we. We hit everything I think. Is there a best quote dimension You made a phone call is probably the best quote. Yeah I don't I don't find this to be like a very scintillating dialogue wise but a lot of cocoa. Get them. We lost them. There's a there is a true romance callback. That is that I like. Which is when Wilson says. Actually I believe the term shyster is reserved for attorneys of the Jewish persuasion. I believe the proper term for me Eggplants eggplants which is pretty clearly the the the the extra later too. Yeah could this be remade as a ten episode Netflix Show? I'm going with yes. I actually would be kind of excited for this. I think. I think it's a pretty good idea if we're going to remake movies like this is a movie that you really could've dove into the robards voiced characters could've gone into we could add more. Jason Lee The whole Mafia stuff gene Hackman. We get like really spent some time in his lair. Like you could do like a wire type of yeah wire type of show like twenty characters in go deep dive and have some sort of catalyst and then you know an essay. I think is juice. Adam think it's a bad idea. I also think man on the man on the run is like a great premise for a TV. Show the fainted in a while. Yeah in a lot of ways I mean when this twenty four start when they when at twenty four come on this is a real like this is a really like a blueprint for twenty four like the frantic camerawork like constant movement. So I feel like it definitely could lend itself to that kind of meditation. Probably answerable questions. I only have to Carla Has Regina kings character. His wife in this movie definitely on the rettig Conspiracy Board of two thousand twenty. I think very early early adapter. She's getting newsletters man. She's like she's getting newsletters at like left wing bookshops. She's on the record. Spiracy board right now. Talking about Bill Gates wanting to put microchips and everybody and and the the business elite put the virus out. Like she's definitely commenting allow those pose. This one's really for Chris. You know we love having Chris the Rewatch ables. But there's a couple times or it's like you gotTa let let the Chef Cook. This is one of those times Chris. What happened to Tom Sizemore from heat to this movie? Because it's only four years. It's one presidential term. It's it's an Olympics. It's it's nothing. It's a small sliver of time heat. Tom Sizemore versus enemy of the state. Tom Sizemore somehow twenty. Seven years have passed. I think when you think about the action being the Jews you really gotTa make sure you balance out the action with the juice and I just ask juice. It's just nickel. I have to say on that whole the whole subject. If you ought to know about the dangers of a baby you know illegal substances go watch word heat and then watch Tom Sizemore in this movie and know that there's no makeup or anything other than that's just. This is probably the last movie he was in right. I I mean he. He makes appearances and stuff. But Yeah but the last movie with a real performance. This is probably it. I think also if you want to look at the dangers of Big Bowls of Spaghetti. Also you can check this movie out because my guy seems to have been crushing. A lot of pasta time clam sauce Last question who won the movie. Well I would say Hackman but I have a feeling bonet is charging from behind here. I Have Hackman. I think this is a great hackman performance. One Life I think Hackman wins as movie. Lisa wins everything else. All other Beggars Sean. Do you have definitely Hackman. As soon as he comes on screen. The this is like a B. movie and the plus comes from Hackman isn't Tony Scott's best isn't will Smith's best it definitely isn't gene Hackman's best but when he shows up in every scene he's in. You're like wow. This is really fucking important. He doesn't make movies feel important and I. He's the man I love him. It's interesting this is the last kind of Gene Hackman in his prime movie or whatever this version of it is because it starts getting weird after enemy of the state he makes under suspicion he makes the replacements which is kind of become a belatedly entertaining movie but was not a great look for him in two thousand and he's basically playing the hoosiers coach. It's at the time was Kinda ridiculed movie. I I enjoy it now as a reliable Then does heist two thousand one. So now the wheels of come off. He's in Royal Tannenbaums last last kind of good movies as I would. I would say two. Thousand One is legitimately great for him. Because I really like heist. I think it's underrated if you want to go return to it. Tenenbaums is great. I mean ten abounds. He was nominated for a lot of awards and behind enemy lines. He's good into. I actually really liked that year as almost like his farewell. I pretend two thousand three and two thousand four didn't happen Chris. Where do you stand on Heist? I don't really have an opinion on them of okay. I need to watch it again. Nothing in two thousand and two runaway jury in two thousand three welcome to two thousand four drops the MIC. Still Alive hasn't acted for sixteen years. He's nizing unbelievable. It's amazing nobody's just said here's ten million dollars being my movie or I think I think people have been trying to lure him out of retirement for the last ten years every single thing down he just will not do it he just he. He lives in New Mexico. He Paints all the time and he's very happy with his life. First of all the fact gene lived. He's amazing he strikes me as a guy who lives pretty fucking hard and he's still out there doing it. It's pretty impressive. Yeah well maybe he'll make one more. We survived grand trying to kill him straight. We talked about that. The firm thing where we had a kind of a headline that made it see. My Kid died even though we were just appreciating them and then it became a new story that Gene Hackman was dead and then it was. I actually had to change the headline the whole thing but Yeah Gene Hackman. Ninety years old is he. Would he be your number one big picture? Podcast guests choice Sean. I'm a little I don't. We definitely shouldn't do it in person. That's that's that's important that he stays safe. Good Point Speaking of Stan safe stay safe. Evernote they're shocked Chris. Pleasure is always will be bad or bill on Monday with the PODCASTS. That's GonNa get all of us. Fired basic instinct. Where we'RE WE'RE LETTING MALLER RUBEN. On the on the podcast to talk about Base against things so good luck that would be the official end of civilization. Stay safe thanks for listening to the.