51: Business Opportunity Is Knocking Answer the Door! With Nigel Guisinger
The welcome to the bigger pockets business. Podcast show number fifty one and we went with the business. Philosophy called the week. Zebra find out who your competition is rack and stack your customer base. Figure out who they're using then Iraq stack of your competition that says here's the strongest to the weakest go after market share and take it from the weakest and keep going welcome to a real world. Mba from the school of hard knocks. Were entrepreneurs reveal what it really takes to make it whether you're already in business or you're on your way there this show is for you. This is bigger pockets. How's it going? Everyone I'm Jay Scott. I'm your co host for the bigger pockets business podcast here again with my co host. The lovely Mrs Carol Scott. How's it going today care doing pretty well? All Things considered tell you. What though no offense to you Jay. But I'm missing my people right my goodness this the staying home understand. It's entirely necessary. It's the right thing to do but wow I had to go this morning to pick up some schoolwork for this guy and had to stop myself dead in my tracks because I think it was like five and a half feet within the radius. I'm like Oh my gosh. I don't WanNa Freak anybody out so anyway. Missing People like crazy. But I'm loving zoom calls loving connecting with family members with friends from a long time ago with business owners with entrepreneurs with just other people trying to stay positive and get through this together in. Thank you once again to all of our listeners. Just sticking in there with us through all of this. We have really great episode today and you are going to love it absolutely. We have an amazing episode today and our episode. Today is all about opportunity. There is a whole lot of doom and gloom out there these days understandably a lot of people not sure where things are headed. What's going on but along with that? Potential doom and gloom is always a silver lining and our guest today helps us with that silver lining. His name is Nigel Geissinger and he is an entrepreneur. He's kind of a Hybrid Real Estate Entrepreneur and business entrepreneur. He's figured out how to put those two together to buy great businesses that own real estate and then basically leverage both of them basically make money both on the business and the real estate itself but the important thing is. Nigel talks us today. All about the great opportunity. We have as either entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs who are looking to build our business by a new business. Start a new business and he talks all about. He throws out some amazing statistics and he talks all about how am why today. Maybe the best opportunity in decades for those entrepreneurs are those want to be entrepreneurs to jump in and start building or buying a business. This is amazing. Episode Literally Action Packed in fact stick around until the very end when Nigel tells us his list of very specific actions. That need to be taking today. So that three hundred sixty five days from now you're operating a successful business. Okay now if you want to find out anything more about NIGEL STUFF. We talk about in this episode links to the things we discussed in this episode. Please check out our show notes at bigger pockets dot com slash Biz. Show fifty one again. That's bigger pockets. Dot Com slash Biz. Show fifty-one now. Before we jump into our episode with Nigel let's hear a quick word from our awesome sponsor. Our sponsor today offers a product. That's absolutely perfect for this moment in time. Every plate delivers tasty meals right to your door and each meal is the same price as one cup of coffee so you can stay home. Take a break from cooking every night and you don't have to break the bank. 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Hey I'm doing fantastic. Herrell thank you very much for having me on. Thanks J. Absolutely thank you so much for being here. This is GonNa be a fantastic episode. We've been really excited about getting you on the podcast. Since I met you back I guess it was the bigger pockets conference last September so we talked a little while and I love Your Business Model and it makes even more sense now that we're kind of in the midst of this crisis that we're in the midst of so I'm I'm actually. It's probably good for us in our listeners that we held off a few months getting you want here. But I'm really excited to have you on so just as some backstory for our listeners. Can you give us an idea? Where did you come from? How did you kind of get to where you are today and a little bit about what you're doing today and so yeah so grew up in born and raised in Salem Oregon and my dad was in construction? My mom worked for the local high school and I was fortunate to also grow up in a family that that with my grandparents that had owned their own business. So I'd always been an entrepreneur at heart. I knew from the time I was little. I wanted to be in business. My first job was selling rocks on the beach to kids so that they could skip rocks up in the puget sound and my sister was embarrassed when I was seven years old so I knew from the time I was really little that I wanted to own my own business and I wanted to help other. People achieve getting their own businesses as well. Starting after high school or in high school I went up and got some education financial education from my dad's brother my uncle and my grandma and so truly got that life experience of almost like that rich dad poor dad experience where you know. You've got one uncle who's who's really pushing him business in in a dad who's in construction. GotTa take those. Two skill sets together went to Oregon State. University was originally going to be a business degree. Major was sitting in class listening to the professor. Talk about derivative lending and. I decided you know this isn't for me. I think this could crash the economy. That was two thousand to two thousand and eight derivative lending really screwed up the economy so thankfully I pulled out of that I was. I had gotten my degree. I ended up getting my degree in German of all things because I was already fluent in German and so did that started up a fraternity and and because of that that kind of got me into that mode of like you know anything they can do. I can do so. Why take something on when I can? Just start something up to start up a fraternity that had Had wanted to get back on campus. We recruited ninety six guys in two years and became the third-largest House on campus. And from then on it was it was all about how to be in business outside of school once I graduated sold construction equipment for about a decade for two different companies and then decided that I wanted to get into business myself The town that I lived in Salem has a suburb called Kaiser. That's where it really grew up in. Kaiser had a huge project that took out. It was called Kaiser Station. It's it's a big development and when it happened in two thousand eight there is a big downturn there and as a result the city lost a lot of finances which was further beautification projects for the main part of town because of this new development and it really hurt the community and so I kept hearing all my friends say. Somebody's got to do something about this. Somebody's got to do something about this. Will eventually somebody has to do that. And somebody has to be that person and I got so fed up that I was working on an apartment Rehab Project that I have my best friend said you know. This isn't right. Somebody's got to do something about it. And I I can remember having drinks and I said I've heard that line one time too many never again. Who's going to be that somebody? I'm going to be that somebody in so I looked online right. Then and there found on Biz by sell a business that was up for sale and I called the business broker. Right there we're sitting at a bar I call the business brokers said. Hey is this thing for sale. He says Yeah Sydney. Send me the financials on my iphone. We While sitting there at the Bar. I ended up buying the business and I looked over at my friend and said you know what we're gonNA lead from the front. So did you have any? I mean did you had. Did you have any experience buying businesses I mean? How did you decide? Like how much am I gonNA offer? And what do I get? And what's the risk? I mean that just it is. Isn't it yeah? No that's exactly how American economy works right. You're supposed to go. You know we can figure this out. Smart people can figure this out. So what did I do know? I hadn't really had a large experience into it. I mean I had had some. I take that back while so in construction equipment. I had a customer of mine out some financial hardship. I had some real estate because I'd been saving my money and putting it into real estate. He got in a bind. I told him. Let's use my assets as collateral for your bond as a. I want twenty five percent of the company. Any did it. This was in two thousand ten and so after three years of doing that. I know how business in that Class Company got up to twenty million dollars business. I sold that off here about three years ago but that was literally because I said you know what you need somebody to to be there for the collateral all jump in on that and so I had some sort of business you know where I had my own but I have a group of mentors behind me that I could tap into for better advice and so that's what I did. I wasn't the smartest guy in fact. I'm not ever going to be the smartest guy I was never four point student. I wasn't the guy. Who's you know Suma Cum laude? I wasn't the guy who has ever picked. I for a baseball team. Heck is usually baton night right. I mean I'm also involved. I was on our state football championship team for mcnairy. I'm I'm in the pitcher but I'm not. I didn't play like they didn't win because of me. It just happened to be there right so the thing is is that I take that approach and say I don't have to be the very best what I have to have to find people who are tap into them and then grow this thing because there's so much opportunity and it's just is somebody willing to pick it up. You know going back to that store on Iraq's on the beach when I came back from that summer camp my sister like I said was super embarrassed and my mom says will Kendall. That's my sister. Why are you embarrassed? And she says you know he's just so on rocks on the beach they could have just picked those rocks up themselves. They were just skipping rocks into the PUGET SOUND. And my mom said something. That's just absolutely profound but but small at the same time. He's but they didn't love. I sold rocks on the beach. I went to a summer camp at at seven years old and walked home with one hundred bucks and a whole bunch of candy and t shirts and hats and everything that said the summer camp on it because I picked up a rock on a beach. I'm not the smartest guy but kids want to skip rocks on a beach and a quarter for Iraq to skip. I I love that. Let's go back to this business. I'm intrigued now. So two thousand ten ish. You're sitting in a bar. You're talking about like somebody has to do something you find this businesses that the glass business no so. This is an appliance business. So I've been rehab an apartment complex and I thought. Hey this is great. I can do this and then I looked and said you know. There's there's going to be a better way because I don't want to just be landlord so we're talking about this and I'm looking at these or at appliances. We bought a bunch of appliance about sixteen thousand dollars with appliances. And then the next week. I have another complex just down the street and it gets a repair for an appliance for dishwasher and if anybody owns apartments you'll know that you've got maintenance and repair and all that. I got a bill to fix a dishwasher for four hundred and eighty six dollars and I lost my mind as I go. Buy a new for three hundred. What what the head so I called up the guy who was who was doing the repair and he's like well. Are you GONNA pay the bill not like? Hey let me look into this. Not as something seems off Kendra says the bill and so that prompted me to say there's gotta be a better option for for who I'm using right so then I talked to my buddy who's a contractor and he goes you know there's really nobody who sells to the construction guys and somebody who fixes. There's there's kind of a disconnect between the two you can buy big volume at the box store. You can get the mom and pop to fix but if you've got a big rehab project or you could a new apartment complex or you're building new houses. There's a disconnect between those two and I said Bingo deal so when I went when we're sitting at the bar at the bar I look on Biz by and see that this guy selling appliances is wanting to sell. This was a competitor of the guy who had used and so I said to my buddy who builds apartments said. Hey if I if I sign this deal and by this do I have your business and I'm kind of smiling because I've got the P. L. from this other business I mean you can pull that stuff up on line from Biz by so he goes. Yeah why is it? I want you to shake on it and say that. I'll have your business if we get it and by the way you know about how much you guys spin an appliance for your for your apartment building says Oh not too much. Maybe about seven seven figures just over a million bucks a year. I said okay. I said all by the next round he says what I said. Just shake on that. I got your business he says. Well we've got existing contracts. It's GONNA take about two years to get you into them because I can't cut the people who I'm already doing stuff with it. I totally respect that we signed a week. We shake on it and he goes. Why are you smiling so big? I said well 'cause this guy. Only three hundred and fifty thousand dollars revenue last year. Thanks for triple the size of the business before I even bought. It took four months to buy it. We bought it through an SBA loan. I bought that business for a hundred and fifty thousand in two thousand and seventeen. We did almost nine and a half million dollars revenue. Hold firmly knock shells that's all. We were whirlpools fastest growing dealer in the country three years in a row and we went with the business. Philosophy called the week Zebra which is find out who your competitions rack and stack your customer base based on how much they do figure out who they're using than Iraq and stack your competition that says here's the strongest to the weakest go after market share and take it from the weakest and keep going and once you've taken them and their market share go onto the next week. Zebra okay. Let's just say that again in. I think I sort of got that. Can you say that again in a little bit slower and smaller words for my brain so that we can really get an idea of the strategy? Yeah so if you take your market any market doesn't matter what you do. Everybody has competitors the big fish little fish everywhere between now just because somebody is a bigger business doesn't mean that they're a better business. It just means that they are currently bigger than you are now. Everybody has weaknesses. Some people have logistics issues. Some people have personality issues. Some people just just don't have it in marketing spot. So what we did was. I hired outside. Pr Person and what my PR person did was. She went to all of the property. Management companies all of the home builder's all of the apartment complex manufacturers. All of the the nonprofits that have housing all of the people who could buy appliances more than once. Because you were mean. We're only going to buy a dishwasher in our house every seven to ten years right but the Housing Authority's GonNa buy one every week. The the Union Gospel mission is helping people get into houses. They need a washing machine every week. You know there's some some different things that can be repeatable customers. So I was looking for is not to get that one often on fighting with the big box stores that sell appliances in bulk. What I'm looking for. Who Can. Who can I build a relationship with? And then this must sell it to him and then next to him and then the next month and the next itself so we have to figure out who those customers are I will once we find out who they are we also need to know who are they using and why once. I know who the customer is and who they're using then I can create a business plan of how to get those customers so based on that what do I do. It's really simple Iraq and stack them and say okay. Well this is the guy who's hardest to get and he's hurons business even better than I do. I have a competitor in my own town. It hurts to say but they're actually better at business than I am. You know why they've been doing it for sixty years. They have their systems down. Better doesn't mean anything against my company and the people who work for me. I love the people that work for me. I love my clients. I respect my competition. I'd love to take him out but I hope that through this this This pandemic that. We're suffering. I hope nobody goes away because I'm a better business person because that competitor exists and so what we do. Is we rack and stack them now? There are some people who are not good at business we all have competitors that do that. I'm sure some people think that about me but the facts are as if we can rack and stack and say here's where the customer base is. Here's where my company is. Here's these other ones. That aren't doing us well and to be honest. The customer deserves better. They get they need either a better price. They need better service than he'd better quality. They need better response. Time whatever it is and so figuring out where you're stronger than somebody else find out where those people are weak and attack that competitor that way and so we actually had an excellent spreadsheet and it was color-coded coded there's like thirteen different appliance. Servicers and dealers in our city. We knew exactly who? Every property management company was using every builder who they were using and why and we knew what was their reasoning. Was it price? Was it so now when we went after this this customers? What did we do is really simple? We just simply gave them what they were looking for. Because SOME GUYS ARE PRICE. Some guys are are service. Some people are I wanted now. Some people are hey you know what the aesthetic of the showroom be better than what I've got. Some people just want to go out and have a drink with you some people. There's all sorts of reasons that people do business with other people. And so what I found was if I knew the why I could give the why that they wanted not necessarily the why I was trying to sell. So that's what I did. That's awesome so so. Let me summarize us. Make sure I had this correct so basically step one figure out who your customers are and you did that by hiring outside. Pr People who could do local marketing to businesses and not just any customers. You focused on those customers who are repeat buyers which is really smart. If you think about it I mean you find a repeat buyer and you're marketing to them once maybe twice at to get them coming back you go after those one off customers. You'll have to keep that marketing machine gun because you're constantly finding new customers so step one is finding these repeat customers. Step to figuring out who they're using for their services who your competitors are and kind of ranked them top to bottom who the best ones are to the worst ones are really understand who your competitors are step three figure out what your competitive advantages compared to those competitors. So how can you do things better? What do you do better? What do you? What resources do you have? What what knowledge or expertise that you have that you can really outshine those competitors and then step four within that framework of who your customers are who the competitors are who the what your competitive advantages figure out how you can offer a better service to those specific customers than those specific competitors. Can't sad about right. That's exactly that's exactly it's like. I said we call it the week. Zebra because you'll lie. They don't go attack the heard the entire herd they go and find the weakest one I and they eat that one up and as a result the heard stronger the lion stronger. We consider ourselves attack dogs. We want to be aggressive not reckless but aggressive and so as a result what do we want to be? We Wanna be that hungry lion and we WANNA zebra. That's awesome and it. Sounds like you're not only being hungry lion and attacking and going after the strategy hardcore. It sounds like you're balancing it really nicely by custom tailoring your approach for every one of your customers based on what they want a need you're not just blasting out there just saying this is what we've got. This is how we're going to make this happen. You really tuning in to listen and give them the best thing that resonates most with them. That's exactly there's compassionate aspect of this too. That people need to have so like you're going to knock out competitors. It's going to happen as a result if you do the strategy you have to have the mercy on the backside too so those same guys who sold me a dishwasher that. I got so upset about trust mail when after their business in a year and a half ago. They wrapped up. You know what I did before. They wrapped up. I offered every single one of those people that company a job including the owner. And I said you know what you guys are actually better at appliance. Repair the night. Your techs are better than me. You guys have really bad customer service. Why don't you come? Why don't you come work for us? And what? She has to be the texts. And why don't we make sure that now you can do what you need. But you've got some fulfillment issues that we that we can do because we have the logistics that you guys don't and this guy actually ended up making more money working for me. He still works for me today. I mean we've had these these different things with people getting furloughed this all of the service decks. It came over. Guess what they're all still working every one of them. They're still doing repairs. They're doing repairs right now. I love that. So you're basically you're being honest with yourself. You're saying hey. This is what I'm really good at. I'm really good at the marquee. I'm really good at running the business. I'm really good at reducing expenses. Whatever it is you're really good at and then you're saying you're the things I'm not so good. I'm not good at actually Dixon Appliances. But here we have somebody. That's actually been running this business for five years or fifty years. Who is really good at that? Why not let them keep doing that? Let them do what. They're really good at let them do that. Thing that allowed that business to be in business for five or ten or fifty years while you improve the business by doing what you're really good at basically just that complementary skills. Here's a little secret. I can't actually install a dishwasher like I don't know how to do that. My company last year worked with eighteen thousand customers and I don't know how to install the dishwasher like. I actually don't know how to do that if I wanna to go do a dishwasher. I'd have to go youtube it. I don't know how however I've got a dozen people who know how and I know that if I need. Install a dishwasher. I can call you know David who works for me. Who worked for those other guys in? David can get dishwasher in fifteen minutes. So why would I do love it? Love is because I can pay him and he's amazing and I'm so grateful that you know that this happened. Because he is too because now he doesn't have the headaches and the risk and he's making more money and we talk about that along the show Carolina talk about that a lot in our real estate investing business. I know there are a lot of real estate investors out there but we flipped four hundred plus houses and car will tell you. I still can't change a light bulb and he doesn't and just like you. Why would he? He could call a guy who can have it. Done quicker simpler in easier than he could even mess with it love it love it okay and I think I think that there's a lot of opportunity for people. I mean I found appliances but there are so many opportunities for so many people right now. This market is absolutely prime for the picking in. It's going to be amazing going forward. Okay so this was your first business. But you've bought and built a bunch of businesses. Since and I love Your Business Model you have a very i. Don't call it unique. 'cause you're probably not the only person that's doing it but it's unique enough that I hadn't thought of it or seen it before. Can you talk to us a little bit about what your your strategy for businesses are investing is and what kind of niche? You've kind of built over the last decade absolutely so my wheelhouse is I love businesses. Where you've got an owner. Who wants to retire so let me step back just to hear him years ago. Well it's been about fifteen years ago. I was sitting in a dentist office in. If somebody of that's listening can find this. Please please please send it to me. I would. I would love to melt this thing on my wall. There's an Aarp magazine article in a dentist office that I read and it said that with they were talking about baby boomers and retiring of course because it's a magazine and what they said was ninety percent of businesses have no succession plan whatsoever. Where there's an employee that can take the the business and they were talking specifically about businesses that had a gross revenue of one to ten million with a ten percent EBA which means hundred thousand dollar a year. People minimum that ninety percent of them have no way to sell the business. Give the business employees or anything. If they don't do some sort of seller finance. How sad is that so then it got me looking into some data. And here's some here's some just real basic analytics last year. Three hundred sixty thousand businesses wrapped up only thirty two thousand. Ein numbers were acquired by other companies. That means that three hundred twenty thousand businesses last year wrapped up. Wow so so when we look at this. There's so much opportunity that it's it's there. It's there for the picking right so what. I was reading this magazine. I'm saying wait a second. So you've got a whole bunch of sellers. You have nobody who wants to buy right now and so there are three things. You could negotiate in any deal no matter if it's a business or if it's the Cana soda pop that you're going to drink. There is price. There is rate and there is duration normally when somebody buys something a piece of real estate or business they negotiate the by price with the seller and they negotiate the rate and the duration with the bank now in businesses. It's not that way you take the gloves off and you say hey wait a second. I'm going to negotiate the price. The rate and the duration because in many cases the business owner owns a business with no debt or has minimum amounts to debt or also owns the real estate. The business holds now during that that type of thought process with the SBA that exists. You can go buy business with ten percent down on a business. So the example that I'll give is the real life example of what I bought for another appliance store. See because about the first one and I thought why don't I create a network of a creative regional appliance store where we've got five or six or seven different locations and we can send product from one location to another? We can have some synergies between our delivery staff our service staff in and we can have a few salespeople in if somebody's sick. I could move on from one store to another. You know this helps out just on a cost basis right so I find an appliance store space in Sherwood Oregon and the people own the land and they own the business. Now they're hitting the the senior end of their career and they want to retire and so they say you know what we want to sell. But we don't want to get all the money now. So what do we do so we came up with a really creative solution what if I use the SBA to buy the business and they get all the cash for the business. So they're all paid out and they carry the debt on the land one hundred percent now. That doesn't sound like a big deal for most people. But let's go into some of the numbers in these are the real numbers. We bought the whole thing for one point. Eight million dollars. That's the land in the business. We decided that the business was worth approximately five hundred thousand dollars so they would get five hundred thousand dollars and then carry a note on one point three million for the land on that five hundred thousand. I needed to come up with fifty thousand because the SBA Gimme four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That means that for a one point eight million dollars. Acquisition is spent fifty thousand dollars a mile money. This was a positive cash flowing business. It still exist today. It's open if somebody needs appliances. Come on in. We're ensuring like we'd love to help you. It's still exists. Now here's the kicker I bought that. In two thousand fifteen we are going through some refinance just like a lot of smart people are doing right now. You should be looking at that if you own a business owned land. See where your costs start? We got a three point two million dollar valuation on that land. Wow so now the business. I've got the debt service paid down. We've been paying that for the last four and a half years so we've got that debt-service service down by a couple of hundred thousand. The businesses paid itself off and that fifty thousand dollars equates to almost one point four million dollars asset value so the question is why are more people not doing this? It's not because I'm smarter than anybody else because like I say I'm the guy who picked last in sports. I'm not the smartest in the room. What I found is that there are so many opportunities and nobody's asking the simple question. What do they want? These owners wanted then wanted annuity. They wanted to get revenue every month. They wanted to shotley arm. Which is what the SBA loan gave them. And then they got paid ten thousand dollars a month on that land for three years until we refinanced it and that's what they did was the greatest thing for both people. They mitigated tax expense. Because they didn't take one point. Eight million dollars in all one year they were able to to maneuver this thing to everybody. Benefited because we negotiate a price rate and duration in all three are equally as important. And so what? I'd love to see US people today. Get ill that are listening. I'd love to see people get creative about this. Because ultimately we're going to have to rebuild this economy and it's going to come on the backs of people who are smart enough to figure it out and there are millions of businesses. You know there's twenty. Five million businesses seven point seven million employed to people are more in this country. There's so much opportunity right now. Our government is literally giving away money to people to keep businesses and keep people employed. Why not grab it? It's there there's people who want to walk out of business with two hundred thousand people last year that graduated with. Mba's in this country on an average debt service of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. We have three hundred and twenty eight thousand businesses. That didn't get acquired last year. Why don't we just match up the two hundred thousand people who are walking out with an MBA and the three hundred twenty eight thousand who are GonNa shut down and give it away for nothing and go like this? Oh Hey lo. And behold we don't have businesses. Just you know getting killed because small street main street is as important or more important to me than Wall Street. I don't care what the CEO of Boeing made. When everybody was fighting this out I care about is. How do we preserve every business? How do I preserve that bakery that we shop at? How do I preserve that small? You know Sewing machine may who repair company. How do I save you? Know the the little tax guy you know. How do I save these small businesses because between the seven point seven million of US small businesses? We are as important whereas viable and more important to mainstream because we represent sixty four percent of the people who actually work in this country and we are present sixty one point eight percent of the new employees that are created annually in this country because the back of this country was built on small business. It wasn't built on Wall Street and so my stance is. Why am I here today? And I'm so blessed to be here with you guys is one thing and one thing. I WANNA see us. Come back I WANNA see US rocket and I believe that we can and I think it's not going to happen by one company taking a million steps. It's GonNa Happen because seven point. Seven million business owners say you know what not today? We're taken one more step than we should have. We just need one more step and if we do that as a country it's going to be amazing we're GONNA see a change as this thing comes out and I'm so jack because I know that we're GONNA see huge changes we've already seen this socially changing our country you know. Nobody's complaining about what bathrooms he is right. Now it's the one with toilet paper so you know he's going to solve that the small mom and pop. Yeah I need to tell a little story here just to reinforce this because you're absolutely correct and I never shy away from talking about my mistake so a bunch of years ago I started a company and company went well for a little while but turns out that our costs were way to hide where we were designing and building a product or margin for low and after a couple of years. We basically had to give up. We shut the business down looking back. There was no reason why we needed to shut the business down. We weren't generating the profit margins that made the business worth for us but it was a mildly profitable business. It was profitable enough that I guarantee you. There are people out there. That would have been thrilled to own this business. They probably could held on for a few years. As as technology costs came down and and if they were better at At at optimizing certain types of supply chains than I was. They probably could really profitable business so we shut the business down without even trying to sell it. And I know there are all these people out there that think. Well why would an owner sell us a business at practically nothing? Why would an owner be willing to basically hand our business? Well let me tell you something. Six years ago I shut down a business that I would have been thrilled to sell for fifty K. or one hundred k. Or Two hundred K. On terms I would have taken no money down offer from from another business owner. Who came in and said let me just give you ten percent of our profits for the next ten years. I would've taken anything because I shut that business down into nothing even ten dollars. Somebody comes in and says I'll give you a ten dollars for your business. I would've made ten dollars more and so that goes to exactly what you were saying. Ninety percent of these business owners don't realize it. I think I'm pretty good at this. And still I walked away from this business without giving it a second thought. Ninety percent of business owners think about it even less than I do. You catch them when they're ready to walk away and they're going to be happy to hand you the keys to their business because they're gonNA make something as opposed to nothing so I wish I would have talked to you six seven years ago because I would have made a whole lot more money. Everybody needs to listen to this. Well it might my stance is. I believe that right now. We have an opportunity to grow Mineta country. There has never been greater time then right now. I mean. This isn't some sort of movement that's going to happen. This is the moment if you want to know you. You'RE GONNA go back twenty years thirty years one hundred years from now your kids. Your grandkids are going to hit. What did you do on tooth in April two thousand twenty because in April? Two thousand twenty we as a country every decision. Are we going to step up and say hey you know what we're going to go and we're we're not gonNA let any business go behind and we're GONNA make sure that the ones that the people are tired and beat up because emotionally. It's tough I mean I'd be lying if I said that last night I didn't come home and cry because I love people who who worked for me and I've got to make tough decisions I did. It's hard and this is the real talk of how business goes in a Lotta guys. Y'All were Gore women. Please don't take it wrong if I use the word guys. It's just a colloquialism I use. But but a lot of a lot of folks that are business owners you know. This is not easy. It's hard. It's really hard. It's so hard that people don't try it because they're scared and people give up too early and the reason that we shouldn't give up is because there's so much opportunity right now the amount of opportunity that we have is ridiculous and right now we have government the government literally given small businesses loans. And don't be surprised if you see debt-forgiveness on it for some of this stuff you know I mean you're never going to mitigate the risk one hundred percent so jump in because if you don't you know what what do you got to lose. I mean if you're going to go broke you might as well go for swing for the fence so let. Let's talk actionable here for a second. So let's say you've convinced me and you have convinced me that I need to go out today and by business and now maybe it's a business like you said where there's the business in the underlying land which we kind of skipped over this which this was another other mazing tip here which is literally if you buy a business where the owner owns the land underneath you've now purchased two independent assets that you can grow independently you can grow the business you can allow the the land underneath a to to grow and appreciate and yet some point you can sell the business and keep the land you can sell the land to keep the business you can keep both land in the business if you sell the business now you have a ten at the the new owner of the business is GONNA come in. He becomes your tenant as long as the businesses successful. He's going to be paying you your rent on the land. I mean amazing. Amazing Strategy There. Now let me ask you a question though actionable. I'm ready to do this today. Our listeners are ready to do this today. How do we find that business or does that? We can do couplet absolutely a couple of different ways number one main. We all have to be quarantined. That doesn't mean you can't go take a drive down your street right. Go go go by the businesses of the people who who are baby boomers that you think these guys might be tired. You know it's not hard right now. Bunch of these businesses are open so drive by and see which ones aren't open see which ones are open and just call them. Hey I've been a customer of yours for twenty years customer of yours for two weeks. Hey I see this. This is something you can you tell me about? Your Business. I'm yet to ever find a business owner. Who's not passionate about what they'll never found a guy who goes you know. I've had this plumbing company for thirty two years in you know what the heck with you know. They're not they're they're like. Hey you know I built this from the ground up and that toilet back there. I fixed forty three times. You know everybody talks about because they're passionate about what they done. It's what people have their lives into and so go in and find somebody who is tired because there's a lot of people that are tired inject that energy to him inject that energy and say so what can I do to make sure that we come back together. You know. We've all closed down. How do I make this earth? The comeback is that you've got a shot of energy and you because you've got the know how and I got the energy so what I'm GonNa do as a shot of my energy and a year. No how and you're GONNA get shot a your know-how into my energy and together we're gonNA forge us because you know what no business employer that I know of doesn't have compassion for their employees? Nobody wants when you wrapped up your business guarantee. The thing that was on your mind the most was the people who worked for me is this right. Should I stick around a little bit longer for my people because everybody has compassion? Had that in their head. How do I take care of my people? That's what I care about most whenever I had to do something this last week to buy walking in and seeing those owners saying hey how do I keep people employed and keep this thing going? That's what it is that's awesome and so basically what I'm hearing is. We're we're all sitting here thinking okay. We're going to go and we're going to offer the the owner money because that's what the owner wants. We do the same thing real estate. We always think the only thing to offer to seller is money. That's all they care about but we know that there are problems that people have when they're selling real estate or selling a business one of the big ones is this continuity and we don't think about that but there are a lot of owners out there who would probably be happy to say take my business or take it for a really small amount. All I ask him return that you keep paying my employees. You keep the business going because this is my legacy this is. This is not a tool to a lot of business owners. This is emotional. And they want to see that their business lives on. They WANNA see maybe their names on the business or maybe maybe these employees. They've had for twenty years and they wanna see that live on. This is a legacy for them as much as it is a financial windfall again. A lot of business owners. They'll take ten dollars because it's ten more than they would have made but if you promise the continuity you're offering something that they otherwise could not have. That's exactly that I have never had an owner. I've bought so we bought out. I think nine appliance stores. I bought a laundry mat. I bought a glass company. I started up a homebuilding company. I have never had an opposing owner. Say the most important thing was the money. It's always been so. Hey you know so. And so I brought him on for years ago because at a drug problem and watch this person because I care about them and I gave them a chance. Make sure that you protect this person. Hey you know. This person is a single mom. And she's she's really fought about. She's a hard worker and all she needs somebody to to let her come in eight fifteen. It's the eight because she's GonNa take her voice to school. You know this is. This is what people actually care about. We we get into all this business you know talk about all these different analytics and all that and we can get into it but but it really comes down to an emotional connection. And how can you serve your employees? And how can you serve the sellers employees? Because that's what they care about. I have yet to ever have one say you know what? Here's the check writer to me too. Heck with them out. Everybody says hey. How do I take this person? I go to church with and I care about them. Make sure you protect them. Every single business that I've ever bought as had that story and those are very very real examples and if my employer listening they know exactly who. I was just talking about awesome. Okay so the next step I'm starting a little notional here. These are very this all especially right now with everything that's going on in. We're all just like you said earlier. Society's changing so massive we were all connecting in new in different ways than we have before it just. I think makes all of this so massively relevant right now so. Thank you for sharing these great examples. So let's say you go ahead and you identify what that potential business right might be right. So will you take us through the next step Nigel? Now that you've found it. How do you negotiate? How negotiate those terms duration the price? And so on. How do you know how much to offer? How do you know what to ask for? What is that next? Step so the first and foremost most important things stood cashflow. How much does this business cash flow and these are the important words to know as is how is where is so as it sits how it is where it sits. How do I make sure that this business cash flow so that I can give you as the investor in the buyer of this business as it sits now assuming that I don't approve at all? How can I make sure you get the most amount of cash if you're going to carry some of this note as a creative finance solution so based off that if we know what the cash flow is we can reverse engineer. What the monthly payments can be once we figure out what the monthly payments can be. We can then adjust what the price the rate and the duration are. If you just get into a simple google alone calculator you can figure it out. Based on what it is now you need to retain some of that profitability for a safety net and as a new business owner. You're going to have some hiccups that are GONNA dip down. So there's some risk tolerance but you're also gonNA have some new ideas that are going to put this thing on steroids and Jack it up as well so you've gotta find where that happy medium is and what to find that happy medium. You just hit that price. I always offer Azziz. How is where is that? It's GonNa Finance based on that so we can negotiate the rate we can negotiate the press. We negotiate the terms. And we'd just maneuver the so that it works for everybody what I want is. I want that business owner to win. I WANNA win. I want employees to win. I want everybody to win Michael. Most of all with all of this and why I wanted to be on here specifically this week is I believe that we cannot leave a single business behind. Not One I love that show just to kind of reiterate this because again we have a lot of real estate investors out there who might think in terms of real estate in the real estate world. If you if I'm going to go buy an apartment building. Let's say there's always the struggle between what the seller it's worth and what the buyer thinks it's worth and the sellers thinking about well next year when you do some renovations and you raise the rents and you get better tenants in. It's going to be worth X. And you the buyer you think well based on the amount of renovations you have today and the amount of rent that's bringing in the occupancy today this is what it's worth today and when you say as is how as whereas you're essentially talking about what the situation is today and so you're not going to be paying again in the real estate world. You're not paying an owner. What you're building is going to be generating in rent next year you're paying based on what it's generating today. So if I find a business and I find out the cash flow and the cash flow is basically your profit like after all. Your expenses are paid at the end of the day before taxes. This is how much money you're bringing in. Let's say you have a business that's bringing twenty thousand dollars a month. You're Dow thinking okay. I know this business bringing twenty thousand dollars a month. I want to take some of that. Home is my profit but then there's going to be some of that that's left over that I can then use to pay be paying the owner the seller financing. I've been using that to pay off the business so if you know a business is generating twenty thousand a month. Maybe you're saying okay. I want half of that for me. I want half of that is my cash flow for the work. I'm doing the business building and then I'm willing to take the other half. Let's say ten thousand and give that to the business owner and so maybe that's ten thousand a month now over a year. That's one hundred twenty thousand dollars a year and I WANNA pay three hundred sixty thousand for this business so. I'm going to do that for the next three years. Is that kind of how the how you're thinking. That's exactly what I said. Well what if we what if we carry this through? And what were you making before? What were you keeping yourself? What were you reinjecting back in? And how do we get the number that you need to know what cash flow is and now we know what number they need now? We can fix price and we can fix rate and we can fix terms based on that. That's awesome I absolute as is how is where is because we don't need to pay for blue sky and this might sound harsh but the facts are is. I shouldn't pay somebody else for my efforts. Should pay me for my efforts in in that owners should also respect in the fact that if they want this to continue on they need me to be profitable and that doesn't mean take advantage of that of that buyer or take advantage of that seller from either side. I never want to beat up the by the seller of the business. Because they're carrying the no. We're in this together. This isn't a me versus them. This is a me and them if they're carrying on this and we're doing creative solution financing you know where they're carrying the land in and I got the SBA loan. Why would I want to beat them up? I WanNa take care of these people. These are my partners in this and so I can get into a business that I don't necessarily know everything about because they have the expertise. The one caveat on every single deal I've cut is that I have to deliver the checks to them personally every month. I do that because those people ask me. Hey what's going on in the business this week? Hey this is the problem. Here's what's going on. Here's what I've got. You know what they WANNA do. They've been in the game for thirty years. They want back in. They don't want the headaches but they want to solve that solution. They want that drop dopamine in their brand that goes. Hey I just solved this. I've got I've got my dairy favorite people in the world that carried on this Sherwood deal and talk to him every month. They're smarter than either way better and appliances then and when I need advice you know what I do. I Call Tom and Carol. That's that's there and and they're amazing and I drop off the check for the land. I dropped that. I dropped off in their living room and we sit down and we have a soda pop or a beer at lunchtime and carols and amazing. Cook and she'll she'll make something in have some brownies. I walk out of their three pounds heavier than I should. But I'm smarter because it because they have thirty plus years of experience and while they're tired they're still passionate about their people and so when I have to make that tough decision they can make it form. The funny thing is you're walking into their living room hand delivering a check. They feel like you're doing them a favor. Your hand delivering them a check. You're giving them their money. You're making sure they get paid. They're like wow. This guy's great. He's he's literally coming into our living room. And meanwhile you're sitting there thinking no they're doing me a favor. I get to go stand in their living room and talk to these people that ran business for however many years that no part of this business better than you ever will. And they're going to sit there basically free consults and they're they're thanking you for it because your hand delivering them a check and not just really consultants. They're passionate consultants. They're absolutely passionate. They have a stake in the game to know this thing's going to succeed you know they're my best pr people. They don't even live in the town anymore. They live about an hour and a half drive south. You know I post something on facebook for our business in the first person who will like in. Every single time is going to be Carol Vincent I guarantee and why some because she cares she cares and we just refinanced the property out and and the one caveat she said when we pay them out because we refinance a land because we did get a heck of a deal in and they had some health issues that said. Hey here's what we're GONNA do. I don't want to get into that. But we refinance out because it was in everybody's best best case for everybody and when she did she says. Here's the one caveat assign this to do this because we we want to do this but you start come by once a month You don't get a not come by on the seventeenth of the month. I'm like please you guys know how to navigate this because they were there in there in eighty seven there were there in seventy two. You know they. They've done it and their way better than me. And so the one thing I will say is when when I came into business as a young guy. I was probably the most arrogant cocky ruthless. Go at type of guy the last few years might shift has changed one hundred percent and I care more about that relationship. I know that if I went broke tomorrow. Three hundred sixty five days from now. I'm still sitting seven figures because I can figure it out and I believe that anybody can do it. I'm not any smarter than anybody else. I have one skill that stronger than anybody else. And that is I m relentless I'm absolutely relentless and I believe in this economy. I believe that we're GONNA come back and I believe that the people who are listening right now can go make it happen. And I believe that they can be relentless we just have to go and we just have to fight have to go and have to go and have to go. I I love it. Yeah we're definitely a situation these days where there's a lot of opportunity to find these and you can call them sellers but what they are is they're partners we can go and we can find these partners. These people that that are looking for a solution for their business problem and that solution is you being able to give them an annuity monthly cash that you're paying them for their business to give them continuity to give them a paying them every month to the land underneath their property. Basically you're helping them. They're helping you and together. You're helping all of your customers in their employees. Yeah and that's exactly where we need to be. I mean we're going to rebuild this thing back up in thirty sixty ninety days. There's going to be people who are tired. They're going to be people who say you know? How much more risk do I need to take? And so what I'd ask everybody. Who's listening right now? Find that business. That in thirty days doesn't reopen that. The people say you know what I'm just tired. Call HIM UP. Get on lengthy and get on instagram. Get on facebook. Find out where these people are going to go to the good of the Chamber of Commerce. Find out where they are in. Don't leave one single business behind without saying. Hey how do I resurrect this? How do I build this? Because if it existed ninety days it'll exist one hundred ninety days from now you know we just have to look and say how do we retain that as as a country and there's so much opportunity you know with with the real estate market doing what it is? There's a lot of risk in that. What if people don't pay right well? Why don't we control the variables we can when we build back our towns one small business at a time. Start WITH ANYBODY. Who's listening right now? Should have no excuse why they don't get on Biz. Buy-sell dot com or just swing by one of the businesses. That had look up and say. Hey you know what? Xyz mom-and-pop business about you. I WanNa make sure you make it through and if you're too tired to do it here's my back right on me. I love it and let me put something else out. And I I assume that this is probably purposeful and I'll let you talk about this more. Maybe it's it's probably obvious to you. Which is why you didn't mention it but it's probably not obvious to a lot of us the types of businesses that you mentioned laundromat appliance repair glass. These are all businesses that are recession proof industry their service industries the recession proof and these are businesses. That if you're buying today it doesn't matter if six months from now we recovering the economy's fantastic and and the Dow was at thirty thousand again worth six months from now. Unemployment still at eight percent and the stock market is down and real estate values shutdown. It doesn't matter. These are the types of businesses that are gonNA do well throughout any phase of the economic cycle and so it just adds an extra layer protection. Is that something? You've you've purposely focused owners that just absolutely okay so I have A. I have a super huge passion. I think our education systems kind of flawed personally. And I think that we've we've overvalued you know like I said I got my degree in German after high school for a year. I was junior ambassador. Us Congress and spent a year and a half in Germany different education system than us. And I I see the same thing that Robert Chiaki talks about our education. We have a lot of schooling but not a lot of educated people and the problem is is right now. You know that blue collar job. That's important you know. There's nothing too shy at plumber. Who's making eighty five grand a year because a lot of plumbers are making eighty-five grant a lot of here's the thing when I with the glazing company when I sold out we had one hundred fifty employees and over one hundred of a made six figures a year? We didn't have twenty five of those guys that had graduated college. We didn't have fifty those guys that had gone to college. These are union glazer's that were making one hundred thousand bucks now putting in storefront window recession proof because the facts are that bank still needs windows. Skyscrapers still needs windows. That applebee's that whatever you've got they need windows' so we have to put him in store windows. It was there but to many people say I need to go school. I need to do this. And so they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this education to go get a bachelor of Arts in whatever studies that they've got they've got two hundred thousand dollars in debt and then they owe thirty they make thirty five thousand dollars a year. And then there snickering at the guy. Who's a Union Guy? Who's making eighty five thousand bucks a year putting in windows or my service exit or making twenty twenty five thirty bucks an hour as a service tech fixing appliances today? That are working today while those guys that have their bachelor's at two hundred thousand dollars debt or one hundred thousand dollars debt or leaving their you know their nonessential job at forty thousand bucks a year. You know we've got we've got it wrong because it doesn't look like those guys are successful in the eyes of instagram. I don't care what instagram says I wear I wear baseball hat and a polo shirt. Most of the time you know I don't care. I drive a Toyota Corolla with crack in the windshield. I don't need instagram to know who who I am or what I am you know. I want to know what the banker when I walk in the business to the bank. I want the small local banker. The Guy who's a prison at bank to stand up and go Mr Geissinger. It's good to see you today. I don't care if somebody recognizes me at the bar or offer this feed or anywhere else. What carries that John Wilburn? Who's the president of pioneer dress? Knows who I am that the guys at Willamette Valley Bank my local bank know who I am. That's what's important that the guy that will admit community bank Norway see I build relationships with the small banks because those are the guys that are going to be there. It's not going to be J. P. Morgan Chase Jamie Dimon at J.P. Morgan is now at Jason's. Never GonNa take a call from me you know. He's the CEO of that bank. But John Wilburn at pioneer trust if I called him right now on this podcast. He picked up into rinks. That's what you want. That's the relationship because businesses ultimately about relationships and for so long. We've skewed this to say it's about the flash in the cash. It's not it's about. How do I fix one washing machine at a time? I don't WanNa make it so that when you know the biggest story I can say about my industry to this is added Gal call. I'm just before Thanksgiving with a broken broken range in her issue was it wasn't about the the the range at all she broke down starts crying and says you know what this isn't about dinner. This isn't about this. It's at my mother-in-law is GonNa be here tomorrow and for thirty years. She stopped that I wasn't a good enough wife. So what did I do? It was six o'clock at night and I by myself delivered stove. I don't know how to install the stove. I learned literally Youtube how to put this thing together as the owner of the company. But I couldn't let this go because this wasn't about the stove this Gal's breaking down because it's not about the stove. It's not about any of that. It's about the relationship behind it and that she wanted to prove. Hey I'm a good wife for my husband and to my mother-in-law and so there's so many of those small stories and we we missed this. This is so much more important than the marketing than anything else. This is what we have in. This is what small businesses built on in. I can't build back. You know the economy by myself what I need is I need seven million people come with me and said we're going to take one more step. There are so many amazing stories in here so many good nuggets so many I mean it's not about the flash in the cash in the. I don't care about instagram. Knowing me I care about my small local banker knowing me. They're just so many powerful messages throughout all of this. So what's next for you? I mean I can only I can't even begin to imagine you've done so many amazing things. What is next for Nigel? So you know. I don't know to be honest. I'm trying to grow You know and and build this back what I'm really passionate about. In fact I called Duck Talk to my state representative last week. Instead you'll my passion is one thing right now it is. I WanNa make sure that as we come out of this that we don't leave one business behind not one. I don't want to lose a single business and I don't WanNa see any of these three hundred and sixty thousand businesses that wrapped up last year. Just wrap up. I WANNA see two hundred thousand. Mba students that graduate come in and take these businesses. I WANNA see businesses be built where we have the relationship. I in that we actually care about our employees and what I've done here in the last week if you'd asked me this two weeks ago at a city ham just gonNa grow my business and do me but in the last two weeks. I've probably had about five hundred people call me and says hey how do I? How do I navigate this shift? How do I navigate through the cares act? How do I navigate through? Sba navigate for this growth. And so one of my buddies who has a company called all the leads. His name's Chad Corbett. He says you know what we're in now is. We're not in a small economy anymore. We're GONNA professional market. We need professionals to come in. Sba SBA graduates to come in and fix this thing. One business owner at a time and step up our game and so he and I started and we just launched it. It's a website called your small business. Hub Dot Com. And what we're going to do is we're GONNA just give out advice of how to buy businesses how to purchase businesses creative financing some mentorship some consulting how to navigate the cares process. We're not trying to generate revenue. What we want is we want to retain every business. My Passion is. I don't WanNa see anybody go behind even the competitors who. I was dogfighting out with three weeks ago. I WANNA fight him again. I don't WANNA see them lose to this. I don't want to knock them out. I don't want that Zebra to die because of hunger. I want it because is ally and I'm GonNa go attack and take them out. I don't want them to die of famine and right now what's that mean it means that? I got prop them up and so I believe that we all need to prop businesses right now and we need to start locally and this is going to happen one person in your town today saying you know what not today this far no further. I love it I absolutely love it. Okay I want you to leave us before we jump into the four more segment of the show. I want you to leave us with a call to action for all of our listeners. Out there who are listening to this and thinking. I'm excited I'm inspired. I am ready to go. Be One of those seven million. That's going to buy a small business and grow a small business and I WANNA do it tomorrow. Give us a call to action perfect. Okay here's call what I want you to do tomorrow. Is I want you to list? Three businesses right amount find out who of those businesses in your town find the businesses that are owned by somebody. Who's a baby boomer and I want you to actually make contact with them? I want you to call them up. And just say hey. How's Your Business Doing? How can I support you? Are you thinking about wrapping it up and if so how can I stop that from happening? What support can I give you? Not Economic Aid. How can I go buy a gift card at Your restaurant? I mean how can I partner with you? I want you to call three businesses. I want you to find out who the owners are. I want you to actually make contact with them. What you have meaningful conversation with them and I want you to ask them. What do they need to that together? You and them three hundred sixty five days from now. Arcachon button taking names and that that business is thriving and so unique call. Three two of them are gonNA tell you to pound sand. One of them is going to say. You know what let's do this and if all three of them a tech with it you know what you need to call three more and then call three more and call three more until you get one person who says you know what I'm tired. I don't have the energy to do this. Back by like your spunk. And we're GONNA do this together. So once they action step before you go back to work with people are laid off right now. Listen to this before you go back to work. You better find somebody because there are ample businesses and social. Media's amazing we can get on facebook we'd get on linked in we can get on. Instagram. You can find who these people are. You know if you Google my name. I guarantee you'll be able to find my home. Address drive to their house holdup note like love. Actually I loved Your Business. Can I buy? What can we do together? I don't care how you do get creative but action step is actually do something if people are listening to this and they don't make a step. I'm just going to say I'm disappointed because the reason that I'm on here with you guys today. The reason I'm taking my time is because I actually believe that this can be fixed and it's not going to be fixed because somebody in the White House because of the four hundred and somewhat people in Congress one hundred one hundred senators that we have. It's going to be taken in seven million steps one step at a time in seven billion people saying. I'm not letting this business bill. I'm not letting this happen to my town so I'm drawing the line and I'll take the first step I love it and I just need to say one more thing because this is so important all the people out there I talked to again. I'm taking this back to real estate. I always take it back to real estate but all the people out there that I talked to that say yes. It's too hard to find. Good real estate deals these days. I wish I were doing this. Back in two thousand ten and eleven and twelve. Because that's what all the good deals were. And I missed the boat and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Let me tell you something in the business world to day tomorrow next month next year is the two thousand nine ten and eleven of the real estate world. These are going to be the best opportunities that we could see any in the last decade and potentially in the next decade. So don't ignore what Nigel saying here. Don't find yourself in two or five or ten years looking back and saying Damn I wish I would have taken action on on a business back in two thousand twenty when I first heard this because now now is the time that you're going to look back and say this was the opportunity. That's exactly. This is the moment I'm telling you you'RE GONNA see a lot of changes happen as things go politically interest culturally in our country in the near future as we come out of this thing and they're going to call it a movement of some sore. This isn't a movement. This isn't a movement. This is the moment jump on it right now. If you don't you're only cheating yourself I love it okay. I could talk for another ten hours. But we're about an hour and so so I think it's time to jump into that final segment of the show that we call four more where we ask you the same four questions that we ask all of our guests and then give you an opportunity to tell us more about where our listeners can connect and find out more about you. Sound good perfect excellent okay. I'm GonNa take the first question. What is your very first. You've already told a show. I I don't I don't I don't WanNa hear the first your first. You're selling rocks on the beach. Which was awesome. I want to hear about the worst job you ever had. And what you learn from it. Oh man so to pay my way through school at Oregon State. I was a sewer. Pipe Layer. And I don't WanNa get edited here but that means exactly what you think it means. It means that you are in live. Human feces like lane sewer pipe yet. No it's a really crappy job like as bad as gets but the thing that I got from. I have a superintendent who worked for me who super blessed to have this guy. He's built like a Mike an ox guy. Six Foot Five. Six thousand six former bodybuilder. Just yoked and he and I were working in chess. Waiters dry waiters in human feces working on wrenching. In this this big pipe that was coming in and he dropped his wrench in live sewer and he reaches down their hand picks up his wrench and goes back to work. And I can see. Your spaces just cringing right now. And that's exactly what my face did. And he looked at me and he says wanted to remember. This is the guy. Who's WHO's your form as your superintendent. I want you to remember this. I'm never going to ask you to do something I wouldn't do myself and I'll reach him. Light Shit he says. If you're going to be a leader you lead from the front. You never tell people to do something. You won't do but know that if I ask you how to do this. This is how serious I am. And he reached down and grabbed his wrench and went back to work. Didn't cringe didn't do anything. Just did it. Now that's where we are as an economy and that's that's the most important lesson I got from the worst job ever did because nothing sounds horrible. Like you have to change your clothes before getting your car every day. That's what we had to do at is an amazing story. Oh my goodness okay. Second question is if you had to go back in time. So what would you do differently? And the point of this question is what can you. What action items? What tips can you give to an entrepreneur? Who's just starting out. So they don't have to learn the hard way something that you learn the hard way on. I would have been a heck of a lot less cocky. I was really overly cocky individual coming into business because I've always found success through tenacity through relentlessness. Whatever it is and eventually we all go up and we all go down and so if I could give my my younger self some better advice it would have been. Hey on the way up. Be a lot nicer. You know. Be a lot more. Have a lot more mercy. I didn't have that. And and that's that's a character flaw that I had and I'd be line of I said I'm nasty dead because I haven't I'm working at IT I. I would have told myself be way more compassionate because there's a lot of effort that these other competitors have put in and it sucks watching this thing get hurt and so we're all GonNa. We're all going to experience a highs. We're all GONNA experience lows. I was absolutely jacked when we when we build somebody up and or take somebody out and you know. I shouldn't have let that high gets so high and shouldn't let the low skit Solo so that would be my advice. You know even when you're when you're in the mess don't don't get too high. Don't get too low and That's advice that I have to tell myself. Even as soon as as last night I was a little sad because I had to for people who I love and That's that's just what happens in so I I had to do what what other people have to do before. So knowing that we're all gonna be there in so have that compassion that you should have never as good as it seem. It's never as bad as seems. That's right okay. Number three This one is going to be a little bit lighter. Note which favorite book ooh favorite book. Boy I took a challenge this year and I'm working on it of reading the Bible all the way through and and so. I'm doing the daily Bible thing this this year. So that's my very favorite book but when it comes to business. There's a book that most people haven't ever heard there's a book called. Give them the pickle by Robert Ferrell and Bob Farrell owned Farrell's ice cream parlor on the west coast in Seattle and Portland. They were an old timey ice cream store. And Bob Farrow's book given the pickle talks about customer service and why he started up. Farrell's ice cream parlor Farrell's ICE CREAM PARLOR. When he sold out had a one hundred percent success rate in an industry that has a ninety percent failure rate and the reason in the story of give him the pickle as he had a customer who came in and ate lunch every single day and he had a new employees who've made their sandwich and didn't give a pickle. The people wanted an the guy wanted a pickle with his meal every single day. That was what he wanted with his sandwich. And the customer. The guy comes up to the counter. And says hey. I didn't get my pickle and they said well that'll be twenty five cents and Bob. Farrell lost his mind and he right in front of in front of a customer in front of in front of the employee said. Let me break down the math for you. Bob Fare wasn't amazing analytical mind. He says this guy has been in here for ten years eating lunch every day. That's three hundred sixty five days a year at five dollars a year times ten years. This pickle doesn't mean anything. He grabbed a jar pickles and handed it to him. And said anytime you come in you can have a jar of pickles will give you the pickle and they made a big sign then afterwards every one of his employees. Give them the pickle. This guy has spent I five thousand bucks in solely because they gave him a free pickle and so he says you know what what are we. We're tripping over this life customer. Who eats with US every single day? Over twenty five cent pickle. How STUPID ARE WE BUSINESS? If we don't give them the pickle just give them the pickle. Give him the pickle and he was. He was an amazing amazing businessman. He had Newport Bay restaurant he had Stanford's and and Farrell's ice cream parlor. He's since passed a his company he sold before he passed but amazing businessman. He lived it and it's a really quick read. You could probably read it in twenty minutes but it's called. Give them the pickle. Give him the Pequot not often that somebody recommends a book on here that. I'd never even heard of but I Because you did. I actually ordered that while you're telling the story so the story that I've ordered the book you can go back and play this. Podcast engage is good for everybody. I want the book. There's a spot on your bookshelf. Just for it okay. So here is our fourth question of the former so Nigel. A lot of people we talked to. You're not in a fancy cars. I mean you told us about your Toyota Corolla with crack windshield. Were the same way. A lot of entrepreneurs are so what is something in your personal or professional life that you've splurged on along the way that was totally worth it. Yes so that's a hard one because I really don't splurge a lot and this was out of all the things when we filled out the paperwork. What's the one that's a difficult to fill out? We bought a about four years ago. We bought a through my property holding company. We bought a Lake. House that we use we were able to. We hadn't moved up on anybody for a long time. And so I mean for like years and so we made a modest move of about fifty dollars per unit up on everybody and we have a couple of hundred units and so then we bought the town home style. Lake House In Lincoln City devils. Like and you know when things get stressful. That's where we went. You know that's where we go and we go and you'll go kayaking in so it's just a small little lake. It's called Devil's Lake in Lincoln City and It's about a mile away from the beach. So you can be on the beach you can be at the lake. I didn't spend a lot of spent like two hundred and thirty thousand bucks on a two bedroom condo. I've got four kids. You know I mean this thing's tight but it's just enough that we can all go in and relaxing. Get away from from our house. It's about an hour drive away and it allows me especially if I have a difficult day. Go sit and I do work there. I've called customers from there since it's an hour drive to my house and said going to office sometimes. I'll do my work from there Just to to have a little bit different scenery so I haven't really ever splurged on cars. No big trips. I'm not a Extreme lifestyle type. A Guy I get to sit and watch my kids go fishing off the dock and never catch a fish and I get to watch you know my kids You Know Kayak and get to go out there and just around in a Kayak or canoe or whatever we've got one of those paddle boats you know that we bought it for three hundred bucks off craigslist. I mean we're just just relaxing to spend time on the family because if anything right now know that families the very very most important that exists. And that's why I say it's all about the small business. It's all about the small community. It's all about your family in. I don't ever WanNa be that guy with the Ferrari. That's not my that's my my ideal say I don't I don't want to be flashy. I don't want everybody know me. I want the banker to know me. And that's what's important loving awesome okay. That's the four. Let's jump into the more part of the four more and that's where you tell our listeners where they can find out more about you how they can connect with you and anything else you want to tell us about pitch so I guess saying is like I said earlier starting up a website or just just getting up and going for called your small business hub dot com. That's where we're going to be helping people with just assets and information as to how to buy and sell businesses how to get creative financing assistance for some mentorship some consulting and how to navigate the cares package right now. This thing's going to be ever evolving. It's mainly just a passion project to help people. Just get out there and keep this economy going and keeping small businesses going. I do have linked in but I don't know how to log into to. Don't get me up there because I don't even know. I don't even know what the Password is. I am on instagram. I am on facebook and my commitment is if you send me a message through instagram. I will respond back to you no matter who it is no matter what it is. I will respond back and I will do whatever I can because I truly believe that right now. My my obligation to society is that I need to help. Businesses thrive and to help people grow. And I WANNA help people who've never been in business. Get there so it's just Nigel. Geissinger at instagram and Just all spelled out so you guys need anything. I'm here. I want to support people and I know that No one person can do it by themselves. Awesome Nigel for everybody out there listening. If you want to see links everything you just mentioned there in the show notes so check out our show notes Nadia. This is fantastic. I ASSUME WE'RE GONNA be back at the bigger pockets conference later this year. So hopefully we'll have a chance to chat again. I'm very interested to see what what's in store for you the next six months and I've feel you're going to be pretty busy so looking forward to chat with you in a few months but thank you so much for being here and would love to have you back next year just to hear what opportunities you were able to take advantage of during the tumultuous economic time. Absolutely anytime you guys want me. I'm here for you guys anytime awesome. Thanks Nigel thank you so okay. I gotta be honest. If after listening to that episode. Everybody is listening to this. Show doesn't get off their butts in the next twenty four hours and go out there and start driving around if you're willing to drive around people don't WanNa leave their house. If you're not looking to leave your house then go hop on google earth or Google maps or would ever use and do a search of all the businesses around your area and start doing some research and start picking up the phone and calling those owners just to talk to them and say. Hey what's going on? How can I help you and start working on putting together a deal because Nigel made a great point? If you start today three hundred and sixty five days from now you're going to be in a much much much better position a creed and let's not forget here reminded us that if we don't jump on it right about now we are going to be kicking ourselves a few years from now saying why did it. I go after that opportunity when it was right there in front of me. So this episode. I feel exactly exactly exactly what we all needed to hear right about now. It was uplifting inspirational and it was full of action packed tips. So thank you so much until that was fantastic. Yeah fantastic episode. Okay everybody you have a Wonderful Week. Go Get out there start. Finding businesses calling business owners talking business owners and put together some offers this week everybody. She's Carol I'm Jay. Pick up that phone call three businesses today. Three three three three is the magic number of people. Get OUT THERE. Get after it. Stay safe stay healthy. Thanks for tuning in see everybody.