The Chris and Joe Show: Carter Coughlin Breakdown
Are you troubled by strange hockey traits in the middle of the night do you experienced feelings of dread about NHL Free Agency? Have you or your family ever seen in New York islanders game if the answer is yes? Don't wait another minute. Pick up your mobile device and subscribe to Lighthouse Hockey podcasts. From espy nation today are courteous and efficient hosts are ready to serve. All of your islander needs and worries lighthouse hockey podcasts for New York islanders fans in the seventh round of the twenty twenty. Nfl draft the giants had four selections for Opportunities To add some Nice developmental backup. Potential players to impacted improved the roster in those final pieces essentially grabbing the highest priority undrafted free agents. The first guy. We're going to be talking about in this seventh round on today's episode is Carter Coughlin. This is the Christian Joe Show. I'm Jodi Leone. Joined by Chris Phlegm here on Big Blue View. Radio presented you by S B nation. We are talking as I said about Mr Carter Coughlan. Who was a guy that Chris? You really really liked on draft day and you talked very highly of him how you thought that. He was drafted with very good value. A guy that you saw as going in earlier rounds ended up falling to the giants in the seventh round but we see with. Coughlin is an edge player. He's also has a potential to play outside linebacker. Six foot three two two two thirty six not super long arms with thirty one inch arms and he was an all big ten second team selection. But what I see though with him Chris overall he's a really really smart guy. Might not be super athletic. But he is so instinctive and he knows exactly what he needs to do on every single play. Yeah that that I think is the thing that just jumps off the film. When it comes to Coughlan he pretty much knows what he's doing all the time he reacts quickly he reacts well and he doesn't hesitate. Maybe a slight hesitation here. Or there that you're gonNA see that in everybody's game. He commits quickly. He commits fully. He has a white hot wide open motor and he just never slows down. He is he's limited athletically and personally. I'm kind of on the side that I think he's going to have to make a bit of a position switch. I I kind of like him. As a canal or invictus longtime biglou view. Readers know him mentioned Carter. Coughlin is kind of a poor man's Zach backbone and I liked that comparison I think that could be his path forward in the NFL. Just moving from edge to off all linebacker and really putting that those smarts that instinctive nature of his to use. I love that conversation that you just brought up there that point that and you even mentioned this after the draft that he really is the poorest of Man's version of Zach bond in being a little bit versatile has experienced as an edge rusher but he seems much better off playing as an off ball outside linebacker he knows how to pass rush like I said but he has that instinctive ability to always locate the football and always come down and make a play on it. We'RE GONNA get into talking about all these various traits that he does the things that what we're going to cover on today's show or his ability to pass rush and also even cover a little bit his ability to defend the run and then also with any linebacker edge rusher defensive chess piece if you will his tackling in his awareness now at Minnesota he was coming off the edge a lot in a standup two point. Position Coming off. The edge against offensive tackles and tight ends. There were some instances where they did move him back a little bit but his primary usage was defending the run on the edge and also pass rushing. Now if we're talking about his pass rush he has not really a lot of athletic explosiveness. That makes you think. Oh he can really do this fulltime and I think that's partially inspiring you Chris to say that he's probably better off as an off ball linebacker that lack of explosiveness and bursts really kinda hindered him and for some whatever reason. Chris and it frustrated the hell out of me watching him. He constantly was trying to bullrushes these gigantic. Three hundred pounds when he's not even two hundred and forty pounds so I kept watching him just straight out him. Lock Arms Out. And then he kept getting halted after a couple of yards of of pushing. The offense of I'm back but as soon as an offensive lineman regains their balance. You're not really going to go anywhere if they're able to wrap up. Grab your hands inside with his shorter arms. He's not gonNa make any progress but the one thing I did really like to see is whenever he ripped. Sometimes he spun. That stuff was very hard for some of these tackles. Somebody's good tackles in the big ten to keep track of because it fits a little bit better of what his style and his size makes more of an advantage ram. Yeah I noticed that as well I think part of it comes down to just his aggression as a player. He wants to get after guys. He wants to be tackles not just give pass them but beat them. I think that might be at least one of the things that leads him to constantly bull rush guys and like you said he just doesn't have the frame to beat a three hundred three hundred thirty pound tackle who's GonNa have arms almost five inches longer than him and have anywhere between seven hundred pounds on him that that just should not be his game. We were talking before the before we serve recording. The the two options for him are kind of either bulk up and try to get to be the size of a traditional edge. Somewhere between two sixty in two seventy to eighty whatever or transition to off all linebacker and personally. I'm not a big fan of asking guys to gain weight because there's just a certain size. You should be that genetics but he does have enough athleticism to be able to move well enough space and there were a few times. Where he saw him rushed from a wide alignment. You mentioned it with him doing some speed rushes through were also some cases where he rushed up the middle. I believe either as a your begat blitzer as linebacker and while he is athletic for an edge ran a four five forty. Thirty six inch vertical. Jump to add ten six broad jump so in just completely linear situations he does have some burst to so he can get him wide or get him up the middle. He can use that to be blockers but if he's kind of in a more traditional edge alignment as a five technique seven technique. Whatever he's not gonna be able to do it. It's interesting you bring up that speed number. And he doesn't really flash that a ton because of where he was lined up in what he was doing again. We're talking about how he's trying to use a a skill set. That didn't work for him. He's trying to pass rush like he was a two hundred and eighty pounder coming out. These big offensive lineman almost like he thought he was. Aj Nessa with all that size and bulk to bull rush these players. But he doesn't have that size so if you coach them up you give them to work a little bit more. Are Your faster quick? You're not really flexible and twitchy. But you have that that long speed you can use that to your advantage. And I saw in instances where they did stunt him and they also lined him up more towards the middle in like a three technique. Look still standing up. He was able to get through and also not even get home and get that sack but he was at least able to cause a little bit of disruption caused some awkward sliding by the offensive line. Some instances leading to sacks by other guys hurries on the back. End of the pass rush. I think he has some athletic abilities to cause some problems on passing downs. Along the line of scrimmage but might not be his his time duty because he's not really built and equipped physically to do that and I think the big thing though kristen again. We're talking about this before the show when we were trying to make sense of WHO. He was as a prospect. He doesn't really have that HIP FLEXIBILITY. That you want an edge rusher you want guys that have really really strong fluid hips. That can Ben. Gin contorted themselves into a position. That makes it too awkward for an offensive Lineman to get at them and the reason why he kept getting halted was because he wasn't able to really controlled himself. That much and his chest was wide open whenever he was coming at guys with lockdown arms. Yeah exactly I think that might be the other reason why. He Bull rushed so many times. I did notice when he was rushing from a more traditional alignment when he tried to take an outside pass he would lose his feet his feet which is go out from underneath him and he would wind up on the ground and to me. That really does kind of hint towards stiff ankles stiff hips and just an inability to corner with speed and keep your feet flat on the ground. It's not easy. There's a reason why the guys who can do that are drafted at the top of the first round. Those are the traits that really separate guys like von Miller or Khalil. Mack or a couple of other things we brought up before the show Elvis. Doom reveal three million mathis when they were with the colts as undersize guys but guys who can really bend and use their speed around the edge Carter. Offline has a lot of really positive traits. But that just isn't one of them the other thing too and he he barely did it at like at all because his again is primary usage was as an edge defender. A guy that was right. On the line of scrimmage coming after these offensive tackles when he did do it. Though I I would say for an edge player. He does a decent job of dropping and pass owns in just a coming on the opposite side and they need him to drop out and fill certain gap he was able to do it. Pretty fluidly not to the extent of a linebacker that does it consistently but for an edge defender with hip problems. I don't think he he looked terrible doing it. So it makes me a little bit more comfortable thinking all right. We could see a transition to an off ball outside linebacker because he did it a couple of times here and there and he was able to do it relatively fine. Yeah and maybe that's he can get better at just. Wouldn't we get to that section of breakdown? Maybe that's something he can get better at as he doesn't more if he does make that transition to he's playing off ball in space. Seventy eighty percent of the snaps is only rushing as a blitzer every once in a while. When Patrick riles pressure Chris I have to say though watching him for fact his best trait and it was very very good when I talk about being his best. Trait is his ability to defend the run. There were a lot of plays the one game that I watched the most of was the Penn state game. I was able to get access to the twenty two for that game. And Man and watching him against Penn state he was causing some serious problems in the run game for whatever reason they kept trying to run at him run these RPO's in his direction and he was not having any of it. He was limiting any gains more than a couple of yards. He was able to wrap guys up if the ball was coming in the opposite direction. And he was the unblocked man on the end. Of THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. He tracked the ball down he came. Parallel to land scrimmage down the line and was able to take those guys down for a couple of yards. He is when we were talking about instincts. He is so instinct of in finding the ball and that is such a hard thing sometimes to coach up and guys there are some guys that are athletic freaks but have no clue how to find the football for example. That was a big knock on Sean Gary. When he was coming out of Michigan that he's really athletic. He can get a free a lot but does he actually have the ability to find the football and make plays Carter. Coughlin has that he might not have this twitchy. S and this overall overpowering athletic ability. But he knows where the football is against the run and he finds it and he makes really really good place to limit any gains. Yeah I I noticed that as well. He is a really sound run-defender. He's smart like you said he diagnosis well. I was also impressed with his discipline. You talked about the Penn state game. I like this one from the Iowa. Game where Iowa runs a reverse normally when you think of Iowa football you think downhill rushing attack. They've got these big honking law offensive. Lineman guys like our Johnson or our Jackson. Our or Tristan works where they can just move dudes well in this game. They decided to run a reverse and pretty much. The entire Minnesota defend fights except for Carter Coughlin. He stays disciplined. He keeps his eye on. The ball follows it well and he doesn't exactly make the play but he gets great outside contain playing against Tristan worse forces the ball back inside and slow the play down enough where the rest of the defense can rally to it so they get the tackled for the loss said. It's plays like that that you just love to see especially for a guy who might just be transitioning to a linebacker role. Certainly he really does not get sucked in or bites too hard on situations where there could be multiple reads. If he's that unblock is sometimes players that are undisputed. There might not really know what they need to be doing or how to react properly. Sometimes they'll crash down and leave that spot on the outside the line. Wide Open for open rushing but he sits as soon as you realize. No one's blocking him. He sits you weighed. Sees if there's one pulling and then he was able to react and limit those rushing games. He was able to do that on some kept quarterback runs. He was able to do that against running Max. And then the other thing too and he was unblocked against on these. Rpo place he was able to disrupt the flow in the timing of things to make. The opposing quarterback overthinking a little bit. Too much not really get the gain that they were trying to get out of it. Overall though Chris I just have to say though that this is really really good to see a guy that is able to know where he has to be in the right situation always there to make the right play and again you said though exactly the point that this might make him a really really good asset as a transition to more of an off ball linebacker. It's just a matter of if we can find out if he can move properly in space instead of a tighter window. Along the Line of scrimmage yet definitely and the way offense in the NFL or trending. They're going more and more towards putting defenders in bed Positions they want to create conflicts. They WANNA create indecision and they want to use that to simplify the game for the quarterback and create opportunities their skill position players. We saw a couple of years ago the Philadelphia Eagles win a super bowl basically running in. Rpo College offense and having a Guy Light Coughlan who can be disciplined? React quickly react crow. It reacts quickly react correctly I really do think the giants got a great value getting him in the seventh round. It is really tremendous value in the last thing. Though Chris that we want to address here with Carter Coughlin because he's a linebacker and he could might end up turning into an off ball. Linebacker is his tackling and when I saw him in one on one solo tackle situations. I really saw a guy that has very good tackling technique. He's always understanding where that point of pressure that he can tack. He'll go down pretty easily. Doesn't always need to lay a big hit or a big boom on someone but in the right position does not get too overly excited and dive guys or try and go for that huge hidden lifts or Mrs just technically sound able to wrap those guys up. And if he doesn't maybe completely stop the penetration and Upfield progress of Guy. He at least can slow them down to the point where the swarm tackling can come and play and they can prevent a ball carrier from getting any further yard so just a very overall. Technically sound tackler again. I think that is enough to make him more proof that he should be an off ball linebacker. Yeah and really isn't a surprise looking at the entire rest of his game. You see a guy who is as smart as he is disciplined as he is who has the motor that he does. It would be a surprise if he wasn't a good solid tackler next. We're going to discuss things. He needs to work on as well as the ceiling. And the floor for him as a prospect. But before we get onto that folks we're GonNa take a short commercial break. Hi I'm Ariel dumb. Ross host of the tech podcast reset. And I'm here to tell you about some of the stories. We're following on reset this month stories about how were adapting to the pandemic with a little help from technology and science like what does teach him look like right. Now I can tell you. There's teachers right now. Who have been conducting their phone calls and check INS with students from random parking. Lots just anywhere that you can get. Wi Fi in for folks who can work from home. How is that working out now? It's my whole life is conducted via this Internet connection depending because even changed what you might think of uppers. The preparatory were at home not going to costco and waiting in line for twelve hours standing next to a bunch of other people. So if you want to understand the new normal how science and technology or shaping the way we live during the pandemic listen to reset subscribe for free on Apple podcasts. Spotify or in your favorite podcast APP later nerds four Carter Coughlin. There are a number of key things that he needs to work on and they're a bit more related to his ability to rush the passer for him though Chris. The one thing that we can't really fix on him is athletic. Ability is his flex. Twitch is hip flexibility. That kind of stuff. What he can do in terms of physical mobility? That's not really going to be very easy to adjust work on for a guy that was drafted in the seventh round. But we do see him as a pass rusher. We can all agree here that he needs to diversify is pass rush moves. It was more often than not a bull rush. And then if he wasn't rushing he'd come with a rip the I saw spin wants net. Was it so he needs to do more. He needs to add more to that. If you want to be more successful the best pass rushers in this league. Have a ton of moves that they can work with. And they're really good with their hands. Now he doesn't need to have a huge skill set of it but if he wants to get more of a role as a pass rusher he's GonNa need to add a couple moves to keep offensive lineman guessing definitely an part of that. I think we'll be getting used in a more diverse role. Getting rush up the middle. Getting to rush from a wide alignment getting used in more stunts and twists. Just not using him as a traditional pinior ears back and Russian offensive tackle edge. I think that will definitely help his pass rush but also like you say getting more moves a more diverse skillset maybe adding a long arm getting better with his or a club rip. Adding more spin moves really trying to make use of the fact that he does have a bit of quickness advantage and he does have a naturally low Will be kind to your say naturally low center of gravity and I would also say he just keep coming back to a transition to an off ball roll work on an improved on really Polish. Up The skills that make you a good off ball linebacker. He's got good awareness. He's got good instincts but really Polish those up for playing in space he is. He has a reputation as a film. Junkie play to that strength. Be The smartest guy on the field. No at the offense is going to do before it even does it and that will help him play fast. Which will really help play to his strengths. Anti Lot of his weaknesses in that also helps them stay on the roster and stick around longer these guys that are so Dovan into understanding the scheme and knowing what they need to do and helping everyone around them. Those guys are going to stick around longer. Even if they're not starting coaches love guys like that that can elevate the quality of play of everyone around them because he always knows his assignment and to the point where he can no the assignments of guys around him instinctive smart like you said being a film junkie again. If he doesn't get on the field for a couple years there's nothing wrong with him still being that really smart instinct of backup player that comes in in certain situations and can have an impact because he always knows his role on the Defense Chris. The other thing too in terms of things that he needs to work on this could go either way. This isn't like a definite. He has to do this because if he decides or the giants rather decide he is an edge. Rusher WE'RE GONNA use you on the edge. He needs to add more weight if he makes that. Move to off ball outside linebacker maybe even inside linebacker. He'll probably stick around to thirty six. Maybe get a little bit heavier two to forty five but if he's going to be An outside linebacker coming off the edge as a pass rusher or just an edge defender. He's got to get up to at least two sixty five to thirty six is not gonna cut it against some really big mauling tackles uneven even guards if depending on where he's lined up yet. Definitely but I I would be disappointed. I think if the giants coaching staff really do decides to go that route with him. I sent her the first half. I am not a big fan of asking guys to gain weight. I figure find your playing weight and then it's the coach's job to put you in a role where you can maximize your skill set at that way. Getting too big. That's what you start putting strain on joints injury. Start CROPPING UP. You really run the risk of losing your athleticism which for a guy like Carter Coughlin he doesn't have a whole lot of athleticism to move to lose so yet to me. That's that's a big risk if they decide to go that route. I'm really in agreement with you on that one because the other thing too is when you ask a guy to add weight you don't really know what the product you're going to get. You could get a guy that because he's heavier struggles to move. Even more and Carter coffin already has some issues with hip flexibility. So can you really guarantee adding weight will do the right thing for him so realistically getting up to two forty five playing as an off ball? Linebacker is probably his best. Bet As we've both been saying in this show his physical frame his mental capacities football. Iq All favor that as a linebacker rather than being in edge rusher now Christopher talking about quarter coughlin ceiling what. I really saw him in. What we've pretty much discussed. This whole show is that I think you can get out of him. Best possible situation as being a mainstay as a sub packaged linebacker edge defender. And the way that I see him more so is as a base. Look Guy so whenever you're in that base four three you can keep him on the field based on the variations. That Patrick grants wants to run. If you want to keep them off the line of scrimmage if you WANNA put him on the line of scrimmage to blitz him or send him off the edge or defend the the edge against the run you can do all that and I like him in these early down situations because he has the instincts to find the ball. He has that mental awareness football IQ ability to track the ball make plays against the run on first and second down. I don't really see a role where he could be third down player. That comes in to rush the passer on third down or is consistently dropping in pass coverage thirds. Now third down so after. You'RE OUT OF THAT BASE. Look and you. WanNa bring your nickel on your dime quarter dollar. Whatever it is if you WANNA bring in those sub packages that have extra defensive backs I would assume Kharkov and we'll be the first guy coming off the field because it's not really is skillset but because of his skill said when you're facing offenses that have extra tight ends on the field or coming out and single back. They're coming out in two Two running backs twenty one personnel twelve personnel. All that stuff that is when I want a coffin on field. I tend to agree. I think whether or not he is a third down player. Might depend on the other guys on the field if the giants get enough. Range from Xavier mckinney derulo peppers. Julian loves Lorenzo. Carter like if they can get enough coverage out of those guys where they don't have to rely on Carter Coughlin to drop into coverage all the time hang with running backs tight ends or potentially even slot receivers and maybe they can blitz him if he does prove to be an effective blitzer. If that happens I think he could be an every down player but that is a pretty big. If in fact that's that's a couple fs and when you start stacking on top of each other. That's when you start to really get into the realm of hoping so if we're just saying a realistic ceiling. I pretty much agree with you. I think just a sub package or maybe a heavy package linebacker guy who can do a little bit of everything but if you want your fastest guys on the field for a big third down I would probably want somebody else. If we're looking Carter Coughlin now you don't really want him in those situations. Maybe he does develop like you said. There's a really big if on that. He does have potential for that but the more realistic high ceiling for him is primarily a base. Look I that is going to be a really good defender for you. But you don't really need him in those passing situations because you have a defense. That's molded around all right. When we know that they're gonNA throw the ball. We can bring in all of those defensive backs that you named and be able to work with their strengths on those various downs talking about his floor. I think he has probably one of the best floors out of the seventh rounders. Better than CAM browns to like. We were saying earlier before the show Chris. I see for him special teams. He seems like he fits the perfect mold of what you want in a seventh rounder. A guy that is going to be a mainstay on special teams. I see as his floor being a guy that can stick around for a very long time. And you had this really good comparison before we started of saying that he could be like a Mark Hers. Liquor Chase Blackburn Guy. That is around for a long time. A couple of contracts and is that core special teamer. That knows where he has to be is always lined up in the right spot helping elevate the level of play an intelligence of younger guys guys around him in a couple of years just having that Natural Football Iq. I think makes them a perfect candidate to be a really stand out special teams player? And if you don't get him on the field for a few years because of all that stuff. There's nothing wrong with that. You know really if you don't think he's physically ready work in on these various rotations at the linebacker position. Keep him on special teams. He's going to go out there. He's going to be productive and at the very least he's GonNa stick around for a while. Barring any crazy circumstance he has what you're looking for terms of mental processing to be a really really good special teamer. Yeah I agree completely. And I think I think Mark Kerr's lick might actually be a best case scenario for Kharkov Or at least a realistic best case scenario when her hers like finally retired it was honestly surprising how long he had been with the giants he'd been with the giants for almost a decade which is really good for a guy who a cancer to get into the NFL and be was an undrafted free agent. And I think that might be a good comment for Carter. Coughlin markers like after cancer because if you think back to him playing for Boston College before cancer. He was probably a top twenty pick. Maybe even better than that. He was phenomenal but after cancer. You know that really stopped a lot of his athleticism car coughlan. I don't think he is as big as hers. Lake was but they have very similar football. Iq very similar instincts. Great Motor Great leadership hers like voice a consistent performer on special teams. He was a guy who like you said really smart could help. Everybody always knew where to be and he was always there but then I think he was actually a little bit underrated as a linebacker particularly as a run defending linebacker he was very sound. He was able to execute his assignments and he didn't have a whole lot of lapses when it came to defending the raw now defending the past. That was another. That was another thing where again athleticism came into play but I think if the giants could get basically another mark hers. Lick out of Carter Coughlin. I think it would be absolutely thrilled with that. As a second round pick give that'd be that'd be tremendous value if that's what you got out of them if you got a guy that sticks around for a long period of time a special teams captain constant contributor. Highly productive getting tackles making plays opening up lanes on kick and punt returns. All that stuff would be huge value. I seventh rounder. If that's all you get out of him. I would be a static. If that's what you can get out of a player like Carter Coughlin that is going to be it from US folks. Thank you for tuning in as always to the Christian Joe. Show be sure to rain. Subscribe wherever you are listening to us and give us your thoughts on the show. You can also tweet us on twitter at big blue view between me at Joe Dealy own and at Raptor M. K. I. Four Chris onto our next show. We have three more players in this draft class. That we'RE GONNA be getting too for you folks after this. We are going to be talking about Chris. Williamson the tea made of offline defensive back from Minnesota. Are you troubled by strange? Hockey trades in the middle of the night experience feelings of dread about NHL Free Agency. Have you or your family ever seen New York Islanders Game? If the answer is yes then. Don't wait another minute. Pick up your mobile device and subscribe to Lighthouse Hockey podcasts from SP nation today. Our courteous and efficient hosts are ready to serve. All of your islander needs and worries lighthouse hockey podcasts for New York islanders fans.