Voicemail from Trump attorney to Flynn lawyer released
There's only one Nick Kristof Pulitzer prize winning columnist for the New York Times. And this is one of those days when we wish there were more many more, he delivered extraordinary reporting to the New York Times today from Guatemala where he asked people why they leave Tamala and head north toward our southern border. He basically handed his column over to those people in Guatemala today and let them speak. And what I read in their stories of why they come is the story of why my people came to America from a starving country where they could not survive, you will hear their stories later in this hour, and listen for something that might sound like the story of something that happened that made your people come to this country. And as soon as I read that piece this morning, I asked if Nick Kristof could join us tonight and luckily he can't. And so you will hear more of what Nick Kristof learned in Guatemala. And this was. A week in which President Trump kept coming uncomfortably, close to his personal decision to avoid service in the military during the war of his era, and then my last word tonight at the end of this hour, I'll review what the president said about not being a fan of the Vietnam war. He doesn't know that the soldiers in those graves that he saw at Normandy, today, we're not fans of the war, but they fought, it's Donald Trump's complete lack of comprehension of things like war that allow him to use words like that. When talking about war, I'll have much more to say about that. Donald Trump and Vietnam at the end of this hour, we begin tonight with the president, who was enormity today to attend a ceremony marking the seventy fifth anniversary of d day. President Trump read speech on a teleprompter written by a team of speechwriters that paid due respect to the hundred and seventy World War Two veterans at the event. And the thousands more who are buried near Normandy beach, then we heard what was really on the president's mind in his own words when he used soldiers graves as a backdrop to attack Robert Mueller and Nancy Pelosi. Do you mind if he testifies still before you said he didn't care? He made such a fool out of himself to last time she because what people don't report is the letter he had to do to straighten out his testimony because testimony was wrong. But Nancy Pelosi will nervous Nancy Nancy Pelosi doesn't talk about it. Nancy Pelosi is a disaster. Okay. She's a disaster and let her do what she wants. You know what I think they're in big trouble war is hell that defies explanation. There's no explaining who lives and who dies in war. Robert Mueller was in the thick of it in Vietnam. As a US marine, Robert Muller is the kind of combat veteran who would have the full respect of everyone in those graves behind Donald Trump today. House speaker Nancy Pelosi was also at that event in Normandy today. And when asked about Donald Trump, she refused to discuss him on foreign soil. She said and when she was asked about impeachment, she did the same thing. Then with all due respect, you question, my here talking about impeachment. But I do say that on the subject of our veterans, we always strive to work in bipartisan way. So this is nothing at not a departure from what we said is a stint wherever we can, we try to be as month, bipartisan nonpartisan as possible, that's a comfort to veterans New York Times columnist, Roger Cohen, who has lived in France wrote this about the president's day, how small he is small and spirit in valor indignity in statecraft this American president who knows nothing of history and cares still less. And now bestrides Europe with his family until, like some tinpot dictator with a terrified entourage have Donald Trump. The bone spur evader of the Vietnam draft, the cobbler of autocrats, the would be destroyer of the European Union. The pay up now denigrated of NATO, the apologised for the white supremacists of Charlottesville. Ville, commemorate? The boys from Kansas City and Saint Paul who gave their lives for freedom is to understand the word impostor. You can't make a sculpture from rotten wood here is some of what the president read from his teleprompter today. To all of our friends and partners. Our cherished alliance was forged in the heat of battle. Tested in the trials of war and prove it in the blessings of peace. Our bond is unbreakable. President Trump has been trying to break those bonds in many ways, including breaking up the European Union by encouraging Britain to leave the European Union, which was a cherished goal of the British Prime minister who won World War Two Winston Churchill in his memoir, World War Winston Churchill saw the war as the culmination of a thousand years of war in Europe between France and Germany and thought that peace would depend, not just on winning the war, but on establishing a new economic union in Europe, that would eliminate the friction of international trade, and other frictions that had repeatedly flared into war here is that passage from the audiobook of Winston, Churchill's, the gathering storm. To me, the of ending the thousand strife between France and Germany seemed a supreme object. If we could only we've gold and tuten, so closely together economically, socially immorally, as to prevent the occasion of new quarrels and make old antagonisms die in the realization of mutual, prosperity and interdependence Europe would rise again. It seemed to me that the supreme interest of the British people in Europe lay in the assuage -ment of the Franco-German feud, and that they had no other interests comparable contrary to that this is still my view today. That is what statesmanship sounds like that is, how statesman think Quinlan's Lisbeth gave Donald Trump a copy of that book by Winston Churchill this week? It was either the ultimate act of optimism by the Queen, or a joke for a world in which we all know Donald Trump is incapable of reading books with the president in Europe today, a federal judge in Washington overseeing, Michael Flynn's case ordered the release of some of the audio evidence in the obstruction of Justice section of the mullahs report. Here is the recording a voicemail. But Donald Trump's lawyer, John Dodd left for Michael Flynn's attorney on the day that Michael Flynn withdrew from a joint defense agreement with the Trump team. This is John again. Maybe a sympathetic. I understand your situation. Let me see if I can. Stayed in star parents. If you have. Will surprise me if he's off to race. If you. Work will. On the other hand. Relation. Implicates the prison. Then we've got a national security issue. We need sometime heads. Just for the sake of. Protecting all only just become remember what was all about. Through. Oh, that's nice. Let me know and I appreciate your listening and taking the time. By school. Joining us now, congressman is going to have to evaluate that as evidence comes congressman Jamie Raskin, a democrat from Maryland. He's on the judiciary committee in the house, and the oversight committee Barbara mcquade is with us. She's the former US attorney for the eastern district of Michigan. She is also an MSNBC legal contributor and John Heilemann is the national affairs analyst for NBC news and MSNBC, he is co host and executive producer of Showtime's. The circus karston Raskin, let me begin with you in what you're hearing on that audio from a John Dowd. And this strikes me as the kind of evidence that you're actually trying to obtain from the Justice department when you're asking for not just the unredacted Mullah report. But the underlying documentation for it. Yeah. And we moved on the floor of the house today to get a federal district court in DC. A citation water that we hoped they would send out so we could get all of the material. The unredacted report, the grand jury material and all of the underlying evidence and. As you know, if you read the report seriously, and you understand what obstruction of Justice is it's all in there. There's overwhelming evidence based on what special counsel Muller is written that the president committed obstruction of Justice, on ten or eleven different episodes. But what we get. Doing audio evidence that video evidence, whatever the documents are is the whole case coming to life, and obviously that's important to make it comprehensible and digestible for people. What about in that phone call? Did you hear obstruction of Justice there? Well, John dad was a little circumspect but. Yeah. I mean look, the president has clearly engaged in far more overt instances of obstruction than that is when he told the White House counsel to go ahead and fire the special counsel into concocted story about conflicts of interest. But the report is replete with instances of the president unleashing his emissaries to go and talk to people to coach their testimony to encourage people to drop cases against this defendant, or that defendant, interfere. I mean you have to rewind the clock to before Donald Trump days to think how extraordinarily it is to have a president interfering in any criminal investigation at all to try to affect any witness or any testimony and then to zero in on an investigation in an ongoing prosecution affecting him. It's just stupefying Barbara mcquade, visit experienced prosecutor what do you hear in that telephone message? Well. Well, I hear a couple of things that are concerning. One is the request for a heads up if Flynn is going to cooperate. That is a request to continue to share information. Even if Michael Flynn is engaged in a cooperation agreement with the government, which would be. You there for the audience. So if people are engaged in joint defense agreement, and one of those people decides okay, I've just made my decision. I'm going to go cooperate with the prosecutors can that person alert the other defendants that he was basically had joined forces with I'm leaving the group. I'm going to cooperate with the prosecutors. Yes. Typically, they do say I'm leaving Lou group. They don't often say it's because I'm cooperating with the prosecutors, but most people understand. That's what that means. And so, you know, the agreement is dictated by the terms of their green, and it can say whatever they want it to say, but typically, when someone withdraws, the most common assumption is that, that person is going to cooperate, but to ask them to continue to provide information even after they've withdrawn would be improper, the other thing that he says, in this call is that remember how the president feels about Michael Flynn, suggesting that, you know, he's, he's situated to do him favors, if he wants to, and what's most remarkable isn't just this call, but, you know, of course, it's important, not to look at it in isolation, but in the totality of the circumstances. And if you read Robert Muller's report, what he says, was most important was the ensuing phone call, where the call was returned Flynn's attorney called the lawyer back and said. We can't provide this information anymore. John Dowd was indignant. He expressed feelings that he thought that Michael Flynn was showing hostility toward President Trump and that they were going to tell President Trump on Michael Flynn, which they took to be an effort to intimidate Michael Flynn from cooperating of John Hoven. This strikes me as one of the elements of, of what we would see if Carson Raskin's committee moves into an impeachment inquiry mode audiotapes like this possibly witnesses, like John Dowd being called. He might claim an attorney client privilege on, on some things might not on others. There are a lot of arguments for proceeding with impeachable with an impeachment inquiry, and calling it an impeachment inquiry. One of them is this right where I I'm not lawyer and barb and others may know more about the idea. But my impression having listened to people talk about it, including congressman, and people who know a lot about this stuff is that under the rubric of an impeachment inquiry? It would make it easier. Or to accumulate the kind of evidence that would build the political case, then anti closely things is necessary if he wanted to impeach the president. And so I think the more the strongest arguments beyond the institutional arguments beyond the house doing its job beyond the fact that every democratic member of the house things. The president is a criminal, that is obstructed Justice beyond all that is the argument for doing this for going forward with an impeachment inquiry. Is that it would create the context in which the maximum amount of information, the maximum amount of oversight information, relevant to oversight, and to again building the popular case for impeachment? If there is one, this is the way to do it in this is just one small piece of evidence that indicates, and there are a hundred thousand I probably literally close to a hundred thousand pieces of evidence like this, that the public deserves to see, and that would be brought forward under those circumstances. Carson Raskin in the last twenty four hours. We've had a report indicating that you're chairman of judiciary committee. Jerry, Nadler's, actually eager to move to the impeachment inquiry, Nancy Pelosi is holding that back. She's blocking that according some reports, but speaker Pelosi also quoted in a meeting as saying she wants to see Donald Trump go to prison. How, how do you line up all of that? And, and how does that tension play out in the deliberations of your committee, are you one of the members of that committee, who's pushing the committee to go to an impeachment inquiry now? Yes. Yeah, I've been for it because we've been presented with overwhelming evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, which we shouldn't ignore. And we also know that since the Muller report was released, albeit in redacted form. The administration has been on a full blown wholesale campaign to shut down production of evidence witnesses documents and to refuse compliance with the lawful subpoenas that congress has ordered. So they're in a total shutdown defiance mode towards congress, which in itself is an impeachable offense. That was one of the articles article three in the Nixon impeachment contempt of congress and here, we're. Seeing a far more sweeping and unprecedented attack on our article one factfinding powers. So. You don't understand these huge schmancy Pelosi to come to your view of this. Who I'm sorry. Do you expect Nancy Pelosi to join eventually with your view of this, and move to an impeachment inquiry? I think that all of us are moving together. We're, we're right now very unified that we need to counter, and stop the lawlessness in the obstructionism of the administration. And I do think that events are moving very quickly in the dynamics are such that it's going to be clear, what it is that we've got to do the key thing, understand about the discussion about impeachment or prison. Is that impeachment is not a criminal process? They end of it is not putting the president in jail. We don't use a beyond a reasonable doubt standard proof and going to the other guests statements were not trying to prove the violation of a criminal statute. We're looking at whether this conduct conforms to what we expect of the president of the United States, where whether he's committing high crimes and misdemeanors against the office. That's what it's about. It's protecting the office of the president. In the constitution in the rule of law against the president, who's trampling the rule of law and acting like a king Joan before we go to break. I want to get you on the politics of the week from Donald Trump. You know, unloading attacks on Twitter as Air Force One landing in London on the London mayor to not being a fan of the Vietnam war to what we saw in Normandy today, including his interview today logo. Potpourri just pick pick your pick your your poison here. I think one of the things you see with president often as you saw today sitting in front of those gravestones a horrific behaviors behavior. I if Laura Ingram was a real journalist, she would say, you know, really your big president. Do you recognize what are backdrop is here to launch partisan attacks as we sit here in front of the graves of the fallen totally wildly inappropriate? But of course, she does not ask that question because she wants she wants us for Donald Trump to attack Nancy Pelosi Robert Muller and the thing from the NC, Pelosi's point of view, and I was glad you played the video is that Trump so makes it so easy for his opponents where his rivals to claim the moral and political high ground, you know, it takes no effort for Nancy Pelosi to do what you did today and whether it gains her in the grand scheme of things where the gains you're much. I don't know. But I do think that for people for the millions of veterans for people who serve in active duty who look at the behavior of one of them being respectful the other being totally disrespectful, and totally political, I can't help, but feel that they look at that, and, again, they get the point that the contrast makes the point of how bad the president's behavior is well, he's. A guy who's clearly never been in a military cemetery until this new job. He has forced him to do it cars from Jamie Raskin. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Barbara mcquade. Thank you, John. Holliman. Thank you for joining us and starting us off tonight we shared it. And when we come back from this break Senator, Chris ban hall, and has sent a letter demanding that the Federal Reserve investigate deutchebanks handling of suspicious this suspicious activity in Donald Trump's, and Jared Kushner's accounts. There a Senator van Holland has gotten other senators to sign onto this letter including Senator Elizabeth, Warren, Senator, Chris Ben Holland joins us next. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the NBC daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. Democrats under Chris van hone joined by six other democratic senators including presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren have written to the chairman of the Federal Reserve and the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York requesting that top officials examined, whether Deutsche Bank complied with anti money laundering, and other laws after Vang Deutsche Bank employees flagged transactions tied to President Trump as potentially suspicious. The letter was sent in response from New York Times article that said specialists at Deutsche Bank, had recommended that transactions by legal entities controlled by President Trump and Jared Kushner be reported to the federal financial crime. Regulator managers at the Bank, did not then report those transactions the senators write quote, only by conducting a thorough review of the full range of this activity. Can we better understand what happened in these cases? What practices procedures personnel may need to be? Changed at the Bank, and what regulators should do to ensure the Federal Reserve's ability effectively to monitor compliance with anti money laundering laws. The letter also asks the federal officials for information about their interactions with Deutsche Bank, including whether they have investigated the issues that several former Bank employees, publicly raised in that near times article joining us now is the author of that letter democratic Senator Chris van, Holland of Maryland. He's a member of the Senate budget committee Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. So this letter strikes me as a follow up a natural follow up to that New York Times reporting. And what is are you asking of the Federal Reserve in this letter? Well, that's right. Lawrence, it is a follow up and what we're asking is the Federal Reserve do its job. They are the Bank regulator for big banks, like Deutsche Bank. I don't your Bank already has a dismal track record when it comes to anti money laundering active. Vity. They've been penalized many times. And now we have a report from the specialist at Deutsche Bank, who track anti money laundering activities. They were filing preparing a suspicious activity report about these Trump related entities, and they were overturned by higher ups. And by the way, not higher ups in the chain of command higher ups outside the chain of command in the private banking section of Deutsche Bank, the folks who deal with people like Donald Trump. And so the Federal Reserve really has an obligation to open investigation into this matter, and hold the Deutsche Bank accountable. I just want to read some of the questions that you're asking the Federal Reserve on this in your letter, you say, has anyone from the White House, or the department of the treasury communicated with the fed board of the New York fed regarding Deutsche Bank, including instructions related to the release of documents to congress. Or to law enforcement, if so, please describe any such context. What? What is the likelihood of you being able to get real answers from the fed on this? Well, look, the banking committee oversees, the fed there in front of the committee, often, I'm joined on this letter by the senior democrat shared Brown, as well as others. We're going to be pushing this very hard in at every opportunity Lawrence. I wrote a letter back in two thousand seventeen right at the beginning of this administration asking the Federal Reserve for sure Ince's that it would continue to act, independently and do its job specifically with respect to oversight of Deutsche Bank. I also asked now chairman Powell the same question during his confirmation hearing before the Senate banking committee, would he uphold the independence of the fed, and make sure that they monitored Deutsche Bank in both cases, the Federal Reserve assured me they would do their job. This is the test. This is a real test of whether they will do their job. And regulate Deutsche Bank, which is part of their mandate. And their responsibility. Well, it based on what you've said it sounds like what they promised you is a basically, what you're asking for here, another of your questions are did any of the activity involved entities located overseas. Did any implicate companies involving prominent Russians as the whistle blowers in the New York Times allege so you have every reason to believe that you will eventually get those answers? Whoa. That's right. I mean look, this whistle blower, provided a lot of information in a lot of evidence. So it would be grossly negligent, for the Federal Reserve as the regulator of Deutsche Bank to do nothing in the face of all this evidence. So at the very least they have to launch an investigation, and ask the questions that we've asked them to present and get back to us with that information. I should say, all also asked FinCEN, which is the unit at the treasury department that oversees federal financial crimes to invest. Gate, this we had a witness in front of the banking committee with the last couple of weeks, and we insisted that they move forward out. He declined to answer questions publicly about what they're gonna do, but we're going to continue to pursue this because this is part of their job. And this is part of their job for looking after the public, and this will be a test case Lawrence of whether or not the fed is really independent or not. And, you know, you have Donald Trump taking all these potshots at them their job is to focus on their mandate, and this will be, you know, this'll be the test for whether or not they do what they're supposed to do. Well, they have passed that test many times in the past before the Trump presidency. So we'll find out this time, Senator Crispin home. And thank you very much for joining us tonight with this important news really with you. Thank you. And when we come back, Nick, Kristof turned his New York Times, call them today, over to people in water Moller, who are leaving to. Tell in telling their stories about why they are leaving when you hear those stories listen to anything that sounds like the reason your relatives came from their countries to try to find the hope of a better life in this country. Food doesn't grow here anymore. That's why they come and they're not the first, they're not the first people trying to get to the United States of America because food doesn't grow here anymore. The Irish famine of the nineteenth century began the wave of millions of Irish citizens leaving their country headed for the United States because food didn't grow there anymore. There were people like Donald Trump in the United States, then who didn't want the Irish to come people who wanted them to stay in Ireland and starve to death as over a million of them did the British government, which controlled all Ireland, then made the famine much worse by some of the actions, the government took and did not take, and now the United States is making the situation worse for people in Guatemala where so many want to leave because food doesn't grow here anymore. The Trump administration wants to cut back on the kind of international aid programs that. Could help farmers who are struggling against drought and climate change in Guatemala. The Trump administration is making a bad situation worse than than complaining about what happens when the situation gets worse complaining about people who come to the United States because food doesn't grow here anymore in today's New York Times, nNcholas Kristof has delivered invaluable reporting on why people leave Guatemala to try to come to the United States under the headline food doesn't grow here anymore. That's why I would send my son north. The woman who said that has lost two of her son's age seven and fourteen to malnutrition. It's your other son Juan who is now eleven who she would send north to Mexico and then possibly the United States for his revival. She had to take issue to take one out of school in second grade to go to work in the fields. That's just one of the families Nick Kristof. Met when he went to out Amal to listen to people's reasons for going north one nine thousand nine year old woman told Nick Kristof the weather has changed. Clearly, her husband went north to find work in Mexico, and then she noted that drought. An unprecedented wins have destroyed successive corn crops, leaving the family destitute, adding, and because I had no money. My children died, both her children. He Samara envy, Dalia died as infants in the last couple of years if you Dalia just six months ago, a principal of middle school told Nick Kristof, the great majority of these kids will migrate. There is not enough rain. So their only option is to migrate. There's one success story. Nick kristof. Reporting Rosa Mendoza. Raymundo told me christoph-. My husband is in the US because there is nothing here. It's a sadness that our community has no water. That's why. People are leaving. She said, her husband squall, also took their daughter, Susanna seventeen because the trafficker offered a thirty percent discount, if he brought a minor to take advantage of the American practice of releasing a parent with a child now pus squall is cleaning houses in Kansas City, Missouri. And Susanna is attending school there. She had dropped out in the third grade in the village that is what success sounds like in that village getting job in Kansas City that no American wants to do and living in a place where your daughter can go to school. Nick Kristoff reports luckier households build new homes, or buy motorcycles, because of money sent back by a relative working in the US. Some of these new homes have US flags painted on them. So what would you do? What would you do? If doesn't grow here anymore. I know what I'd do because my people did it. They came to the United States. They did whatever it took to get out of our land and come to the United States after this break, we will be joined by Nick Kristof with more of what he learned in Guatemala about why they come. Nick Kristof did what Nick Kristof does with so much talk in our politics, about people trying to cross our southern border, Nick Kristof, went to Guatemala and asked people why they come. He delivered a simple and chillingly powerful report in his column in the New York Times today in which he used none of the space for his opinion, and all of it for the words of the people, he met in Guatemala. He let those people tell a story, which is theirs to tell the last line of Nick Christos report goes to a forty two year old man in Guatemala, who tightly summarizes, what everyone else in the article has to say, there's no rain and no way to grow crops, one camp live here. Joining us now is Pulitzer prize winning columnist for the New York Times, nNcholas Kristof and Nick, thank you so much for being with us tonight as I read this this morning. The first thing I wanted to do is get you here tonight, so you get down there with that. Very simple. Christian question of why are you leaving? And you have to report you saw the answer. Everywhere you looked in with everyone. You talk to. That's right. And I mean, clearly the answers are different some degree depending on where in Central America you, but in the western highlands, where I was climate change was a huge driver of migration, and look people are aiming for a better life, but it's also that they don't really have any alternative when their corn crops are, are withering in the deal when they have nothing to feed their kids. When you mentioned one woman, I talked to nineteen years old. She has had two kids, and she has lost them. Both what we tell her, you know. And there's just this desperation in some of these villages seventy percent of the kids are stunted for Mel nutrition, and that means the extended physically, but they're also being stunted mentally if you love your children, you wanna try to provide some alternative for them. And in some cases, they take the most. We're in Guatemala, and other cases they take them to Mexico. And in some cases, they try to take them to America and, and the new, it's risky. You know, we in one village I went to six people had died recently trying to reach the United States. And that word comes back to them. They know the back. Is there they absolutely no. And so, I think what President Trump may be doesn't realize is that he can put up a few more obstacles, make life a little bit more brutal for these people. But this is in the context of them taking enormous risks already knowing that they may die in the desert when women may be trafficked into brothels. So this is one of the motivation answers for what we're seeing when we see these photographs of, of a parent, and a child trying to get across this border and the repentant, people, Trump supporters who watch that and think they're watching irresponsible parenting. How could this parent, put this child in this kind of danger this tells the story of the danger, they left look there, there are so many loving parents who? Precisely because they love their children. They're trying desperately to get them to the US in the western highlands. It's, it's climate change in Honduras, its gangs. If again, comes after your twelve year old daughter, and the gang leader says he wants her to be your girlfriend. If you love your child, you will get her out of there to safety and I've seen that over and over and, you know, there are things we can do to mitigate this situation. I don't believe in completely open borders, and letting everybody through but one thing that would work is trying to improve governance, in some of these countries, we actually did made some real progress in all Salvador and over two years. The number of people detained here, dropped by half Guatemala another hint is going in a downward spiral, and we're doing nothing to try to address that. We can also try to provide in these areas affected by climate change, or climate change our carbon emissions. Of course, we can try to provide drought resistant seeds aid. Programs and they really do make a difference. Instead, we cutting off that aid, and, you know, it's such a sad combination of policies that are both heartless and ineffective and counterproductive. If I were a Pulitzer prize voter it'd be voting for this column today. Thank you, my good to see you Lawrence appreciate it. Thank you. And when we come back, a Trump family lesson about military service. Donald trumps will cabriolet is, and always has been the size of his mind, which is to say, very, very small. It takes a small man to produce the kind of angry and hateful tweets that Donald Trump does at all hours of the day and night, including from Air Force One, using government paid for telecommunications. And that's small man is always limited to that very, very small vocabulary of his, and that's why he said yesterday in London that he was never a fan of the Vietnam war, that's the way his tiny vocabulary, expresses his likes and dislikes either fan or not a fan. He actually has no idea that wars do not have fans has no idea that war is how, and that though, some people might be proud of their military service during war. They are not fans of the war, they had to fight Donald Trump said more about. About the Vietnam war, and why he avoided service in the Vietnam war yesterday. And I'll have more to say about what Donald Trump said, much more right after this break. Yesterday in London, the only person in the world who seems to believe that Donald Trump did not serve in the military because of a bone spur asked him if he would have liked to serve in the military, if it weren't for that pesky bone spur. You will not able to serve in van because of the bugs conditioning, you'll fate. Do you wish she'd been able to serve would you'd like to Sergio country? Well, I was never a fan of that war. I'll be honest with you. I thought it was a terrible war. I thought it was very far away, nobody ever you know, you're talking about Vietnam. And at that time, nobody ever heard of the country today. They're doing very well. In fact on trade, they are brutal. They're very brutal. They great negotiators great business people. But nobody heard of it. I mean they say what are we doing so many people dying? What is happening over there? So I was never a fan, this isn't like I'm fighting against Nazi Germany. I'm fighting fighting against it ler. And I was like a lot of people now wasn't out in streets, marching, I wasn't saying, you know, I'm going to move to Canada, which a lot of people did. But I was not a fan of that war that war was not something generally about snow, but I would not have minded that at all. I would've been honored. I would have been honored that would've made Donald Trump, the very first person named Trump honored by military service because that is something Trump's just do not do Donald Trump's grandfather Friedrich did not do his mandatory military service, when he was living in Bavaria, when he tried to return to Bavaria after he obtained American citizenship. He was ordered to leave the kingdom of Bavaria in one thousand nine hundred five or be deported, and unfortunately, for history, he returned to the United States. Donald Trump's father was thirty six years old when World War Two started in the United States. The United States participation started all men up to age forty five had to register for the draft during World War. Two in this country. Plenty of men of Donald Trump's father's age and don't transpired this situation served in World War Two, but no one in Donald Trump's family did that that's just not what? They do when Donald Trump was asked about this yesterday. He knew no sane person could believe his bone Spurs story. And so he simply stressed that he wasn't a fan of the war, because we weren't fighting Hitler and Nazi Germany and enemy. The dunk Trump's father chose not to fight and remember the Donald Trump's father was actually arrested at a Ku Klux Klan rally in New York City years before that. So we don't really know just how sympathetic to Hitler. Donald Trump's father might have been. It's hard to find an American Donald Trump's age, who is not related to anyone who fought on the American side in World War, Two his other complaint about Vietnam, is that it is very far away, which would rule out, Donald Trump's participate participation in every war. The United States has fought except maybe. These civil war. But in those days for genu- was considered very far away from New York City, Donald Trump says, nobody ever heard of Vietnam by which he means he had never heard of Vietnam. But that's not true. Donald Trump got medical deferments to avoid military service from nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy-two during that time two presidential campaigns nineteen sixty eight and nine thousand nine hundred seventy two were run with the Vietnam war as the number one issue in the presidential campaign. Bobby Kennedy got into the nineteen sixty eight presidential campaign as an anti Vietnam, war candidate, Donald Trump knew that Bobby Kennedy died from an assassin's bullet on this day fifty one years ago, after he won the California primary even Donald Trump couldn't have missed that news sixteen days after he graduated from college. In one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. Donald Trump knew all about Vietnam. And he knew he didn't wanna die there. And like millions of other young men in those years, he tried to find a way out. He found the rich kid way out his father had a doctor who was a tenant in one of his buildings and the doctor wrote a note to the draft board about Donald Trump's bone spur Donald Trump seems very proud that he did not protest the war, but that is what is so wrong about Donald Trump's history, he says, he was never a fan of the war, but he wasn't going to say that out loud. He says, I wasn't out in the streets marching, and that's the problem Donald Trump's moral failure was that he was not out in the streets, marching, the Vietnam war, presented a moral challenge to America and a challenge to our definition of the responsibilities of citizenship. John Kerry met that challenge by volunteering for the navy. And after he after he graduated from Yale, he then served. In combat in Vietnam. And when he left the navy he continued to do what he was trying to do in Vietnam. Save lives. And the way to save lives. When John Carey returned from Vietnam was to try to stop the war to do what Donald Trump is so proud he did not do John Kerry did go out into the streets marching, John Kerry did testify to the United States Senate against the Vietnam war. John Kerry, joined the millions, and millions and millions of war protesters in the United States, who kept marching and kept protesting and kept changing minds every day in America, including in congress, and eventually turned this country against what was an immoral and unwinnable war for the United States in Vietnam. The war ended when it did in nineteen seventy five because the peace movement, which Donald Trump had no part of forced that. War to end when it did the peace movement saved lives saved American military lives by ending that war when it did. And so the real answer to what Donald Trump did during the Vietnam war is nothing he chose. None of the morally justifiable options that he was confronted with because he didn't even know what they were. He is proud that he did not serve in the war, because he wasn't a fan of the war, and he was proud that he wasn't out in the streets marching on Donald Trump's father got him that doctor's note that got him out of the draft, the minimal morally responsible thing to do was to take to the streets marching to try to stop that war to try to save the life of the boy, who was going to be drafted instead of Donald Trump, and Donald Trump did not do that. Donald Trump did nothing because in war. That's what Trump's always do. That's tonight's less word pay. This is Rachel motto. The way you spell. My first name is R. A. H E L, and the reason you need to know that is you should text the word Rachel, two six six eight six six to subscribe to our shows newsletter for clips from the latest episodes and updates from motto blog and all that other good stuff. Text Rachel two six six eight six six.