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Episode 133: Juan Antonio Fernandez


Hello Hello Hello probably five here now today. I bring you a very special episode well. Actually it's an episode of another podcast which is called the art people podcast. Some of you may know I have a whole nother podcast and so on my travels <hes> installing art I install I do big installation Asian work if you I don't know <hes> I meet a lot of really great people and I get to interview a lot of people and it's one of my favorite things to do is connecting with these amazing art people from all around and you know Latinos who launches a great platform platform to air those interviews but sometimes there's just no time to do it with lava lethal or to coordinate the interview so I said I need a whole nother platform to put interviews. There and I have interviewed a lot of Latino artists so if you WANNA go check it out. I think we're about twenty one twenty two episodes deep in the art people podcast <hes> but this specific interview our friend Juan Antonio Nandes <hes> who we mentioned on the podcast several times did an interview with me for our apple podcasts and I thought you know what I want. The Latinos who lunch listeners to hear this because I think he's such an important figure. He's a really great friend friend of the POD and so I'm bringing you the episode that we did on the on our feet today so I hope you enjoy and without further do Kwan Antonio Fernandez on the art people podcast hi I'm Justin in Phila- and this is the art people podcast. It's the podcast about art people get it okay on this show. I bring you the conversations I have with art. People my hometown of Las Vegas and the folks I get to meet on my travels around the world. In December of twenty eighteen I was in Oakland California and I got the chance to sit down and talk to cultural producer media scholar and full time hold little one and Boniol Fernandez listen in as we talk about the nineties La producing shows in New York Academics Party Lines instagram archives and much much more <hes> also we were we were at his house and we were eating cheetos. So if you don't like the sound of people eating cheetos maybe fast forward thirty seconds starting now rounds to have while you're interviewing somebody until microphone. It's going to be an A._S.. Amar Yeah Yeah let me grab the ball the Ball Mrs Tucci does at once okay. Let's talk one yes. Are you recording yeah. Oh Shit okay. That red light means recording blinks. If it's not recording I learned that the hard way when I interviewed Tammie Brown I thought I interviewed Tammie Brown and then it didn't record any of the do you want to you Tommy Brown. Do you want to interview Tammie Brown. Yeah why was it dragged on okay and I and I tried to interview her but my thing was i. I interviewed her for like five minutes okay but my thing wasn't recording so sad. The last icon my friend Joe is friends with her. Oh really and he was like working with her and so my friend Jesse who was doing a piece for the New Yorker like yeah we were able to get a little thing from Tammy yeah. You're very well connected. You know so many people yeah sometimes by accident but yeah I guess I do know people so I guess on the show I've been trying to I've been trying to like label. People three things like like on the first episode was bobby lethal and it was like an art historian curator podcast or right the second episodes ballade. She's a print maker a visual artist and a community leader. So what are your three things three viewer to choose three things okay so homosexual again so I would say we'll scholar thinker and producer Yeah Yeah Yeah. Let's get into that <hes> and gray right like we were talking before like the gray area right like is really like a space like an idea that I'm trying to <hes> I wouldn't say embody but like definitely own yeah because I think that I spent spent so much time trying to work on my spiel and on my like what am I right like the identity the three things and I'm finding that I'm most comfortable when I'm not like having to perform any of those identities where or I can just be a person who likes to make connections and and make use of my resources and the people that I know and like space right like when I was in New York a spate of somebody who owns the theater space in the Bronx you can use our space and so it's like how can I use this space and that's you know and then I did movie that right and so I did like storytelling a storytelling project where he invited people to come in like do live storytelling with performance but it wasn't that like I had originally originally wanted to curate that concept it was I had access to a space. How can I use it and so it's a lot of that right yeah so I get really uncomfortable when I start to just kind of hone in on like artist or like the producer or a producer or writer scholar academic it's like I can't I can't fully embody all of those things at once? I feel like I have to let my give myself the room to flux right yeah. I like that well. Let's get into your your academic background. I because I think that's a that's a cool foundation. Where are you from originally though because you're not from Oakland right no I'm not from? I'm from California. I but I'm not from Oakland. I'm from Ma okay. A I grew up. I grew up in in the valley and McCoy I so I grew up in Tacoma. I have four sisters. They're all older and they all have a bunch of kids now but I I grew up in Tacoma and it was a really isolated place. My sisters were really how to deal with a lot of shit and they had to deal with a lot of racism and so for them. It was really important for me to not have an accent and so I I learned English pop culture and I learned how you know what I mean. I learned how to not have an accident on purpose like that was something that I was raised with that. Because of their own issues and there was no internet there was no empowerment right like they have to survive navigate and so for them I the idea was that if they can show me how to navigate the world that they had that they were you know that the way that they had to that life would be easier so I grew up watching eighties movies right like problematic as eighties movies. You know I think I came into my started coming into my identity junior high and I was like <hes> outed by a teacher and I think that it was like a curse and a blessing because on one hand and it was like my whole social world opened to this whole other place like I started going to arena in these nightclubs and but then also my home life like the love and affection that I was getting at home like completely disappeared as as soon as how would you. How are you outed? What did what did they find? <hes> there was a teacher in junior high yeah who had like a parent teacher conference and and my sister had to translate from my mom and my sister my sister had to translate to my mom. On that my teacher was telling her that I was gay because the teacher had overheard conversations with friends and whatever so there was no way for me to even process my own sexuality because you know what I mean because it was like and I think that my uncle <unk> had passed of AIDS in the late eighties and so I think that really affected the way that my mom reacted because he was her friend and and she had that initial reaction back then everyone was having like if he came over. It's like you throw away all the dishes you like anything that he touched scrub with alcohol like that really was the way that we were you know that my mom was react but it was it was society was reacting that weight or an an educated Yeah Yeah A. and so all of those things she really like. It was just like her biggest fear right so I can't blame her like we're cool like we're super cool now but like but it was rough and so shortly after I met this girl her name was betraying butch a queer chick at school. Sorry Chick and I'm I'm. I'm from the nineties and that's not an east so I she. I like you like correcting. You're checking. I'm watching them rallying. I'm growing gets you growth but no but she took us to arena we like snuck out one night. In like went took took the bus like two hours into Hollywood and we're out and I was the first time I've seen gay people on mass and like and like Latinos right like it wasn't like it wasn't just like gay people. It was like Latino Gay Latinos from all over L. A.. It was just all ages club. I met my first boyfriend that night. Yeah it was crazy like it was an all ages club that was an all ages club in Hollywood and there was so circus disco was behind it and that was like twenty one and over and then you had arena on Santa Monica which was at that time all ages and it was like for that little while it was really like a utopia right like it was like I made a lot of friends and I met a lot of people and it was like pre instagram pre Internet so like you really had to like utilize phones Jones and like you're calling people and I remember one time like all of a sudden this other person named Rosie like just kind of called me randomly and was like 'cause eight. My friends called me Johnny back then and they were like because my family called me Johnny but they were like she called and was like you're Johnny Right Alabama. It's like yeah and she's like. I'm a lesbian to like. Having a kickback you should come over. I got your number from so and so and like it was just like and so then it was like little network of people that lived in my neighborhood started like meeting through all of these other networks the people that were partying at arena right and so eventually over really quick time you know by the time I was in ninth grade was caravans of us just like going to arena by the time I was ninth grade and Oh my Gosh I can't even imagine and so and so that was that was Kinda early nineties. It was like yeah like it was like ninety two ninety three until the fucking wheels fell off very like I just did that forever like for a long time so yeah so that's kind of where I'm from and like where I come from right and what I come from and it's been a really interesting thing now to see like this resurgence of like people talking about these histories and historic sizing leaving it you know I have friends that are writing books and doing all of this work on like on the historic sizing arena or like historic sizing you know let Latina than the ninety s and so. I think you know it's it's a beautiful thing to see because I survived right like not everyone did. I lost a lot of friends and so like and and it's nice to revisit it now and have like a more positive affection towards that time yeah <hes> all of that to say that I didn't graduate high school so I didn't have like a my academic. Career didn't start until much later it happened shortly. After I got sober. I hit a wall like I was. I was partying you know and like my lifestyle revolved around all of that like you know like a tweaker and I was drinking all the time and just like things snowballed so that by the time I was like twenty eight. I looked like you know haggard like just messy person who is not fucking fun to be around it was dark but but I got clean I survived in and and that was kind of like the first major shift in my life right it was like I came out at fourteen and then twenty I got clean or sober. I got sober. I I oceanside clean same checking myself and and I got sober and then that opened kind of all possibilities because I was like just kind of restarting my life privately and kind of do anything right yeah and what were you doing that time like like in your in your twenties partying just party yeah. I mean you know California in L._A.. Yeah I mean but it was dark. It wasn't like even though it was just survival you know and there was a lot of <hes> you know oh I can look back on it now and and be glad about it yeah but you know there were definitely really dark times and moments where it was just like fuck like I'm probably going to die right now right like jumping in car right like just jumping in random cars prison and going to you know these older men's houses and just kind of like shacking up there until they were sick of you and you go to the next one and I really was my lifestyle right and so and you learn how to survive five and perform and navigate life that way you know and so I didn't know how to like not. I didn't know how to not do that. Getting involved in sober lifestyle was definitely like needed. <hes> maybe somewhere in my thirties I decided to go back to community college and and it was back back then you still didn't need like a high school diploma to go to Community College. You could just take classes and I started excelling community in college. Graduates College transferred to U._C._L._A.. <hes> graduated in Twenty fifteen and then went to Grad School in New York and did a media studies program at Queens College and I think I definitely at U._C._l._A.. was when I was able to really start looking at these at my at my own personal history and at all of that like dark stuff in a new light and tear like reshift and refrain how I was thinking about those experiences right and not an glorifying way not to say that it was like fabulous but to enough to say that like there's there's a history there and I wasn't the only one who experienced things and so how do you how do we make these connections in and tell these stories right you know and it's like not one dimensional. I mean there was so much so many scenes that I was a part of <hes> I definitely made good use of my time in New York and I was there for a couple of years and I feel like it was it was like a duck to water in New York like I just immediately fell in love with the people that I would meeting and it was like a really fertile time right <hes> so I was able to collaborate with people and make stuff and make things happen. I did movie that at the Bronx Academy of Arts and Dance I did visine getty that and I gave a you know in that allowed me to talk walk here and I worked with the Bronx. Museum moderated some talks and it just got me really proactive and thinking of how I can utilize all of my experiences right yeah. Let's get into those projects. Tell me about that a little. You Bet it was it was like I said it was. It was just kind of like it just kind of happened really quick like it was shortly after pulse and I was experiencing firsthand like agreed that the Puerto Rican community was experiencing and like the erasure of like the Puerto Rican narrative out of that tragedy and I had been talking a lot to my friends and so I had friend I gathered some some could people that I already was hanging out with New York Louis Fonseca who does the onus and my friend Jose Rodin. WHO's an actor Bianco Out Anna who's like a six sexologist scholar in like fucking fears and Charles Rice Gonzales who's a writer and he runs the theater space and I kind of rallied everyone up? Let's do something. Let's tell our story so. The first event was storytelling project of. Like your for like tell the story of your first Latte night like your first Latin mate and it was really fun and it was like a packed house and people came and we're like really enthusiastic and then so the then the second installment was you'll see matt did like a like a test run. You'll see moderates did a test run of Prieto wow and like a workshop kind of test run of it cool with along with you know Fox who is now area based in Dino Fox does like a queer burlesque and and that was fucking fears it was so cool like Dino Fox's fears and so yeah a- and it was just like two installments but it was really like fruit for and just exciting to like produce in it got my lake by juices flowing like what it could look like to produce not feel like it has to be one contain and then a couple of years ago Hong passed away yeah and you decided to put together a really cool zine yeah around his his life and his influence and thank you so much yeah you included Latino lunch in the in the zine transcribed one of our episodes yeah yeah we did a special episode for you yeah but nobody lethal transcribed it. He was all transparent uh-huh. Oh that's how he was really generous to do that and Y'all both of you were really generates to air that that pedia it was really exciting for me. Yeah I mean again you know he was like my mom's fave and he's he's always been in my consciousness and when we would go to Donna La to my mom my mom's from in May he go go like every summer in the eighties and get either had come out one of those summers and so like the lyrics to that Song Getty that are like embedded in my brain brain like I I've known the lyrics since I was a kid it made me reflect on not only him and like an how could he that came into my consciousness in how he came into my consciousness but just my own queasiness my Donna La during the summers had a she had like basically a houseboy right and she she was she ran Michael and all stand and so he was like her he was like her guy and he was like this big queen like he we had a big fro and he wore tight seventies close. It was eighty. You're like politic type polyester and he was really really like fierce and he got a Lotta Shit though but he was really like proud like he was really like he wasn't trying into hide any of this don't ally in the eighties and he disappeared like he just disappeared and so they don't know his fate so all of those things were kind of ruminating when died and so way years mean route who's like a she's a journalist in L._A.. Hit me up and said hey like I want to invite you to do this. Talk about one guy like a really helped. Get get that project going because I wanted to just kind of wanted I wanted. Do everything like it was like really it was really like meaningful and so it was one of those things where like you just kind of like the project is guiding. You like you're not really doing like <hes> like takes over you and so I was like I'm just going fucking. Call everyone that I know will want to do this right or participate and so I hit a you guys <hes> Gabriela Roman fears like love his work. Yeah he's Yes yes. He was like a touchtone when I was in New York like he was so fucking cool to just like spend time with like he's so chill like no and I was kind of starstruck when I met him in New York this last time Oh yeah I was like too shy to actually engage mhm conversation but we hung out. It was cool what I loved when I first met him was that like I wasn't nervous to meet him because he had already been producing work and so it wasn't so much but he made it easy to talk but we had take a full it was like as if we'd known each other for a long time like we were talking about relationships and like like our Latina's than our queen. It's like all of these things in like failed relationships in our party lives like we talked about everything at a coffee shop like the first day I met him so we became quick friends and like he he like <hes>. Let me use a piece that he had me of wombat cover which I was lucky enough to be able to print in color so that you would get the full effect of it. Klaudia Rodriguez the poet row helio CD. Do you know who yeah clause. Let me use his collage story and Dorian would did an original piece. He's for it manual Paul Paul of Anti Trade. Let me use some Wonga images that he had made some graphic art he had made previous so it was like it was just like working with a bunch of friends you know and so then I got you know and then I went and I did this talk and curated a whole performance piece in around it so then Doreen would and Oscar from sisters Manthos and Sancha came out in like saying some did some covers offers to coincide with the release of Zine at this talk that and then he has mean screen to a short doc that she'd made that was awesome following impersonators impersonators yeah it was a full fucking doper van. It was really fun. I mean it was just like what do you do when you lose someone like that. Like how do you how do you honor someone. That's so special and so if out really good and my sisters came in you know my cousin as in came into the talk and you know just to kind of share that kind of space on this side of my life right like it was really cool. Yeah that's amazing. It's also really amazing how small the art world is and specifically like the Queer Latin ex art world for sure like all those people you mentioned I've crossed paths with them and I'm friends with some of them. Now which is so incredible right. It's incredible super small yeah and everyone's fucking Rad. I Love Oscar from sisters. Month owes like like he's brilliant and like so even when we have like quick little text message is or like instagram chats or whatever like it's it's just like it's refreshing to know that there's there are folks out there that think like you right and I think that has that makes me really it. Comforts me because you know growing up in Bitcoin like isolated like close enough to L._A.. That like you can technically get there but you still live in this place. That's like way out in the valley. It's a whole other world and it's like Super Far Away especially. When you're kidding you don't like or you're young and you don't have like a car or like access to you like you're? It's it's like a whole other world. You know now that I get to connect with folks like at this capacity like it's like feeding the that part of me that needed it for so long. Yeah we've been talking a lot about why have any way with with different friends but with you specifically about like different transitions in our lives right and I feel like we talked about it now like you're transitioned from you know this this party animals to an academic scholar to an academic right and it Kinda sobriety to push you. It was a whole new world for you and I feel like now aw you're in another place right of transition yeah I it's been it's been interesting moving. I immediately just kind of like sunk might toes into the east coast. I was just like this is ed like it just felt really fertile and fruitful like fuck I want I want to do everything right now and then just kind of like moving to the east back to the West Coast <hes> like I have family in the bay area I make my grandfather their lives in San Jose and my cousins live in San Jose grew up out here and so <hes> like I definitely have connections to the bay area but I've never lived here his allowed me to just kind of retreat and like and and do some self care and like stop and like forced me to stop rate because I was going from the second I started community college. I was like working fulltime in retail and then going to school full time and I didn't stop like I did like winter spring summer fall like I just over turning out like not stopping and then I started producing stuff and so then it was like going going going going working working going going so landing here well first of all when I when I had initially got here. I was still working on my thesis. My master's thesis so like a lot of a lot of that early time spent in the Bayer was just like hold up in this dining room like writing and reading and writing and reading in like turning out that work and then it was done and and even then I got a job and so I was working at a college full time and then writing pieces so over the summer I was really forced to just kind of stop and it opened the door for like self care right and like what does self care look like for me now because when I initially you know the first time I had ever experienced self-care it was like when I was in Rico starting a recovery from drugs and alcohol and so like that was kind of laid out for me though right eight like those things are really rigid and very there's a lot of rules and a lot of things in in these programs and so which are super helpful in life saving for people never what I diminished that experience but what it did was it made me really judgmental and really like rigid aged and like like a soldier right like in a scary way right and so everything had to be very regimented in like in a box right. I've been able to relax here and it's really uncomfortable because that's hard for for you as a working artist to who was like very proactive like it's hard to just sit. Just take care of yourself. How you're feeling that day you know and so now how like I was telling a friend earlier like I I realized that like I'm way too in touch with my feelings? Now right opposite went the other way like now it's kind of like so now in that like like in this in this now in this phase of transition it's like being okay with imbalance being okay with with the gray right like with the gray area with like with fertility and with like anything you know like but not not putting expectations on it this time where before it had very like like tunnel vision right like I'm going to get a masters all right this is my project like boom like just going at it like without anything in the periphery and now allowing myself to just like sit down and not have to feel like I have to produce anything today right yeah. You know it's it's hard because then you're alone with your thoughts but like at the end of the day like our bodies bodies need to like I thought about doing the thing where you like unplug on Sundays and I don't get on your phone or check emails or anything. I'm GONNA try that but I'm already stressed out thinking about that. Yeah I mean that was one thing I did in the like you know in the last few months was just like not engaging on social media so much now giving so much away and like the last time you were here I was my main instagram was deactivated. I remember yeah and like but it was you. We know like I had to let you know. I don't always have to create content. I don't always have to create like I don't know I don't have to put everything out there and I know that there is empowerment in that for some personally at this point in in in my life like I need to recharge and part of that is also just like laying low and and that's uncomfortable sometimes yeah yeah. It's also like the foam oh thing like if you're missing out one hundred percent I had I too. I remember I was this past summer. I was feeling really sad because I wasn't with my friends. You know and I had to stop looking at instagram because I would get so sad just like seeing everybody hanging out and I'm just like and some random city doing whatever you know very by myself in the woods somewhere so yeah it definitely is healthy to unplug sometimes yeah I mean I definitely experienced that when we first moved here in like you know I had left all of this all of this community in New York and so like just kind of watching them continue on being awesome and like not being able to be there to even just to fucking clap for them right like it sucks you know yeah yeah. So what was your thesis on for Your Masters Funny. You should ask I so I researched the idea of well I I basically it was looking at instagram archives. That's right and so looking at the incident instagram archive as an artistic medium <hes> it was a critique and it was basically I zeroed in on I mean it's it's pretty complicated but I was looking at the effects of of specific instagram archives and gentrification and the connections and <hes> the process of art washing and how he could have you know how these how these things manifest and so then looking as cons- instagram as a site for slumming like digital slumming so when we think of historically I think in pop culture the what we think of the most is usually the Harlem Renaissance Right and and we and we <hes> we can see in the history how like white folks occupied reappropriated jazz or like or like would go into Harlem and basically watch US right or watch black folks the <hes> and and and like so that's what's happening on instagram before going onto these archives yeah and like and and watching it and taking it take taking it re appropriating it and then going specifically to those sites right great and to those people and to those people and so and so like <hes> and also the fact that like instagram is like a huge multi billion dollar corporation that is owned by facebook that is now basically the owner of these images right and so it's like well. How freely are we willing to just like give our our personal history upright and because it's just going to end up in some database and so I look at everything that I approach critically right and so I just I just wanted to have that conversation really it was just it was just to pinpoint kind of one way that this could be a problem right that <hes> <hes> like an instagram page like Andrew Cass rate than that is like really fruitful and really you know has been has had a beautiful effect on the community that it's working with but then there's like folks on the periphery like <hes> you know institutions you know mainstream institutions galleries museums that are looking at it very differently and and not the way that we honor it right as Brown folks as as Latinos she connects let necks like <hes> and then also what's left out from that history right because it's like one person that's manning the ship? It's like well. We can make an argument that yes you are bringing in preserving a history but <hes> where the black folks that were in this community where the Queer folks that created these communities I mean party crews and backyard parties are queer functions and so <hes> I you know I participated in them so like I know you know and and even then you know thinking about arena and being a part of it and and and experiencing when when <hes> party crews would come in and like be really hostile towards our spaces so like <hes> there was just you know it was just the way for me to process what I experienced. Personally you know given my history and then also away from me to process what I had been studying at the time and also for me to process the way our histories United Chicano Studies Chicano studies at U._C._l._a.. So I was very much embedded. It was very fresh in my mind. Histories were fresh in my mind I had done a project with the mighty collective previous where I like preserved some some of the things that they had produced in like did a whole thing at the Chicano Resource Center at U._C._l._A.. These histories were very fresh in my mind so it was like a natural progression to jump into this project. I still don't feel like I explained it as thoughtfully they could've but <hes> but you know there is this theory this theory of the middle class gays that a woman her name escapes me last. Last night I went to the I went to the Eagle and there was this drag show happening and it was like a movie on these two reminded me of Paris is burning or something these two white people that looked like from the eighties almost take business attire but maybe it was like business cocktail attire were there and like and it was like a guy with brown hair a tall man that looked like a lawyer with like kind of like goofy looking white dude with in his forties with what appeared appeared to be his wife who had like that beautiful like helmet hair till the shoulders you know what I had like a shoulder padded like blazer thing and like a a nice leg skirt pearls maybe yeah and they stood at the very front of the of the drag show at the very end I was at the very front and they like stood in front of me so I was like watching this drag show in between these two white people yeah and and I'm like what the fuck what are they doing in the way and I think what was going on is like they knew one of the let the there was all three. Let the drag Queens. They knew one of them and they were it was so weird they were there to be like. Look we support you like I don't know like if I stuck out that much you know it's not my space gay bar. You know what I mean right. It was such a weird thing yeah and but for them to not even see that they were in their they were physically literally in everybody's way taking in that experience that wasn't it wasn't for them Rhino Yeah Anyway and so it's like so something like that so then that's perfect you know something like like like you know like an instagram page is accessible to everyone right yeah and it's public right. It's like hell a public and so like even though essentially it was made for are US anyone can access it and eventually you know as as as some of these have ended up in like mainstream institutions and it's like well who's funding this and why and where is it going to go from here right the and then and then we can easily just look to East L. A. and Boyle Heights and the struggles that they're having with galleries right now and it's like you know I don't want to get into that whole conversation but these things don't happen out of thin air like there is is a domino effect that occurs right. It's not that I'm not trying to uplift the artists in our community but we start we do have to start having we have to start critiquing ourselves right like we have to start looking at each other and being like what are you. What what are we doing? Just you know I'll say a friend of mine mentioned you know Brown. The Brown critique of Brown are right like <hes> I think it's time I'm all for an open to people pushing back on any of the work that I produced on these topics but I also would expect it. We have the saint we create the same kind of questions push back towards each other as well yeah and and also to be careful careful because I see white white supremacy is real right and it's very strong and I see these very public archives and like <hes> very <hes> inclusive for the people for that next the people for Queer people organizations and communities they start to have gatekeepers gatekeepers and that's dangerous. That's so dangerous because Oh my God i read this quote by Roxane Gay recently that I'm totally going to butcher right now but I just found it so amazing. She says that she doesn't like to be called an expert because once you're an expert on something you're put on a pedestal and once you're put on a pedestal you have to remain very still so people could admire are you right and then you stop growing as race and and you know that's power more addicted to power. I love it yeah yeah. Of course that's why I have my own podcast so south but it's dangerous when you when you don't reflect on your own community and are critical of your own community that's what we do a lot and Latinos lunch totally and appreciate <hes> and we're critical than are within that on the show itself but <hes> but then also on the other end of that is just like people also give people passes. They're like Oh. They're trying. They're Latinos in. They're trying gap there. It's bad it's bad. It's bad art yeah. It was a bad show I'm never going to be I'm not going to support that anymore or just offensive or your tone deaf or even God. Can I talk about John Leguizamo Netflix special. There's case awesome the girl like what yeah I was yeah. I mean we saw at Joe's pub and I think you know we left with that initial side lie and so and we saw it at the public we had left through that initial afterglow of like isn't it great for us to finally see ourselves and by the time we were on the subway we were like that was fucking homophobic like that was so like and a historical and like decontextualize and it was like for who who is this for the right and that's how I feel about and that's I think initially what triggered my wanting to work on these on these archives is that even just the misuse of the idea of an archive archives are like colonial concepts concepts right and like you know like you know I mean years and years and centuries of tribes that have had their like artifacts taken from them so that they can be archived in a museum. I mean come on and so what so now we're just giving it to the museums like for you know a write up into a lot like yeah I know I feel you meet the lat. Next artist eases hot cheetos Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I know my Gosh. I know it's like it's the lat next artist that does giant pinatas. I know her well but ah eventually it just becomes fluff right and yeah we just start so then we start doing it for that like we just start doing it for that kind of notoriety right because it's easy and it's an it's like access you know but do we all need access like do we do we all need to be front and center like probably not in and I'm okay with not being front and center or well like our and ask you unless question is like for your work for your research. What is something that that you want to work on like a dream project free to work on Omega or and or like? What are you looking forward to producing like? What do you want to do next? I'm looking. I'm looking forward to producing with my friend Dino again and we worked together here. In the city in October I produced a play called the homophobes which was written by Argentinian. Dan Playwright means us on a cook and think oh directed and it was kind of his his concept in I just kind of rolled with it because I respect him and we go way back I met him. I met him when <hes> back in my arena. Today's like yeah we were really young so I've known him for a really long time and I kind of just blindly went into the project and ended up having a really good time and I love I love I love theater. You know like I love theater. I Love I love that atmosphere sphere in that excitement and the energy and and then watching creative people just unravel in front of you fucking beautiful and so we're talking about putting it on again next summer and so I'm excited to work on that again <hes> with him and yeah and so I'll let you know when that happens and it was just a really funny irreverent like it was a really cool piece and a dream project would be <hes> so my sexual experiences where through party lines Oh shit and and so I'm interested in both researching that that media and that that type of media and that medium and maybe an you explain party lines really quick yeah so I I'm thinking of a very specific. There's different ones. There's the ones that you would see in the magazines and you would call the nine hundred number and it was like a chat roulette right and so. then there was some that in in l._a. specifically i can only speak for l._a. i'm sure they were everywhere but they were like the latino one right and it was like chat roulette but it was like real people like you would hook up and like so it was kind of like scruff grinder her but like on phone lines right and like in you would and the thing is what i what really makes me wanna like continue like do this work is is the performance involved in how like people would code switch and change voices and talk and deep voices and like hyper masculine and like you could just kind of like embody whatever you thought would make someone want to have sex with but it was always very like much cheese he's more like challah aesthetics right like all of these things and so i'm and then also the friends that you make through those in the communities you make through those in <hes> like i'm interested in that like a really big part of like my awakening mm sexually in like it got me in a lot of trouble but it was also it's like something that we're not we don't really talk about i so remember there used to be party lines in las vegas to i remember going on them yeah when i was like like my first couple of years of college when i still had a flip phone so there was no on your phone i've never talked about that before yeah that was an interesting it was interesting i i met some really cool people abberley scary people i you know like i said you know just fucking jumping cars right like you all right let's go because there was no other way to connect and so like yeah that would be like that would be a fun interesting personal project yeah i love you like both research it talk to people some more about that have experienced and then it could be some type of installation right and maybe find some disconnections nations right yeah that could be really cool that's exciting the audio component of it too that'd be so great you found some audio like let's just think of the fact that these were like landlines and we we had very like the phones where it's like media archaeology right it's like this whole other layer to it really interesting yeah well one thank you for talking to me thank you so much fun yeah what's tried and thank you for these cheetos oh you're mark can you wanna do it with me sure oh my god okay we're going to end with some as amar okay we're done you can follow on instagram at no underscore on thrillers that's an underscore c. o. n. t. r. o. l. e. s. if you're in the bay area check out the exhibition chosen amelia's at the g. l. b._t. historical society in san francisco co curated by one fernandez himself send me your emails if you have any questions or you want some advice please send your emails the people pod at g. mel dot com and i might read them on a future episode subscribed to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and if you like what you've heard please make sure you rate and review the show you can follow us on social media <music> at art people pod today's episode was producing edited by me justin fabella with music by mike mcdonald a few quick announcements this july twentieth at the barrett museum of art you can go check out the show sorry for the mess <hes> by yours truly and that miracle mess and we'll be doing a community day so meet me there from twelve to five p._m. we'll be doing a paper plant workshop and there'll be many other things going on that day again the marjorie barrick museum on july twentieth all day <hes> parking is free that day on campus so even if it staff parking i know a lot of people that go to new u._n._l._v. <hes> are to park in those spots because they do ticket but not on that day all right r._j. burke museum july twentieth see all their also showed to the santa cruz museum of art history free installation their what a beautiful amazing community i hope to go back there and do some more work <hes> chat with people there they were incredible so <hes> if you're in the area in the bay area again go down to santa cruz check out the santa cruz museum of art history i didn't installation they're honoring as though career a really amazing she kinda murless that was part of the community there <hes> for many years one of his murals was erased in the nineteen seventies and <hes> we brought it back to life so again thank you so much to the santa cruz museum of art and history okay that's it bye bye well hope you all enjoyed that thank you thank you thank you one that was <hes> such a great time and i also want to let you know that that interview was done a long time ago over six months ago so much has changed one told me he's a whole different person now i'm so you know what they're probably be another official wanfen on this interview on latinos who lunch again in the future so thank you and and yet if you again if you're in the bay area if you're in san francisco check out the show that one helped curate <hes> and then also <hes> if you are near santa cruz please visit the santa cruz museum or history check them out i will be doing a lot of traveling in the next year so if you are in des moines iowa i we'll be in des moines iowa next week <hes> hit me up on instagram let's hang out <hes> let's go eat also i will be in fort worth texas all of august or most of august and september at the aim and carter museum of american art self anybody wants to help or hang out please let me know mostly help because i'm gonna be so i'm going to be tired i know i will and i'm not going to want to go out at night <hes> but if i want to come through and check it out let me know so total shameless plug if y'all wanna go see so my art work i have several installations up at the moment if you are in houston texas the houston center for contemporary craft has a show up right now mine's called justin avella all you can eat it's all about tex-mex food and tex-mex history which is really fun i made giant nachos giant fajitas might eat does a combination plate of puffy offi taco g-l-a-c on gartner and it's all like honey i blew up the kid <hes> size which is really fun or honey i shrunk the kid i don't know one of those white people movies okay and then if you're in pennsylvania the berman museum has one of my installations upright now in collegeville pennsylvania that's near philly then insulation is up through july twenty eighth it's called the valley of oaxaca go check that out <hes> if you're in new york sugarhill children's museum of our storytelling as one of mine solutions up through september go that's a really great museum check them out <hes> let's see what else what else again the marjorie barrick museum of art has the show up right now sorry for the mess with <hes> myself and ramiro gomez and again join us for the community day on july twentieth okay that's enough and as always you can visit us at latinos who lunch dot com you can dan send us letters emails voice messages to ask l. w. l. at g mail dot com if you have a minute please release five stars five stars only because the more reviews we get the more visible we dr and visibility leads to representation and representation matters today's episode was

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