Fall Brawl '96

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Doc going man and you're listening to three weeks. They're off Eric. What's going on man? How are you? I'm doing great looking forward to a busy week coming up a little bit of travel a little bit of pay per view the business new smackdown coming. Everybody's way so a lot of great stuff going on having a blast lots of great stuff happening here on eighty three weeks as well our topic today Eh is such an important show to me fall brawl nineteen ninety-six and we should mention today's episode is brought to you by boost mobile the switch that gives you more this show. We're going to talk about today Eric. I told you off air that if you were here in person we were together I now I would give you a hug for because I I sort of put wrestling down and Maria view mirror and I was not watching for ninety three ninety four ninety five and then one day I'm flipping flipping through the channels probably late August nineteen ninety-six and I see Hogan and all black and I think that whole co what does this. I'm so used to the baby face red and yellow all American Hulk Hogan Old Cogan wearing all black and growing a beard was just weird so it captivated me caught my attention and I had never even seen diesel razor amount so I didn't know who those guys were. Just knew this guy is supposed has to be good guy. What in the world and I found myself falling in love with Nitro and this is my first pay per view back so watching this show this week was such a joy brings me back to the height of my phantom and I can only imagine what it must feel like for you because when you go back and watch this all these years later you guys are certainly roll in here and you've got some momentum but you know what's about to come and you're about to fucking own the wrestling world? That's never more evident than this. Show say well you know. I don't think it's fair to say that you know we knew what was to come because we were taking you know one day to time one show at a time I clearly you know we're on the beginning of a massive role in in terms of our success but you know as you know I've talked about this before on this show you know oftentimes when I go back and I look at these episodes these pay per views from twenty years ago or more or a nitro or whatever it is you know you kind kind of cringe a little you know because everything has advanced so much further you know the in ring product has advanced in many respects or evolved. I should say some people may not think of it as an advancement but I do but the in ring product has evolved the production techniques that we use today are so advanced compared to what we used to do. Formatting the way we set up backstage promos so many of the things that we do today have advanced so much further when you go back and look at them. It's kind of like going back and looking looking at your high school yearbook and seniors a picture of yourself when you thought you were really all about it and you look look at it twenty years later my case much longer than that and you go dork and sometimes I have that same feeling when I go back unless he shows but I have to say hey you know what I knew we were going to do this show I went back and watched it on the wwe network as I always do and this is one of the shows I think probably one of taper views really that I really got excited watching this. We did so many things right for this. Pay Per view even leading into it you know the way we set up our stories the the intrigue around who's the fourth man some really advanced storytelling devices vices that we use it. We'll talk about throughout the show. I'm sure there's so many things that we did that. Were so far ahead of our time and were probably in the day considered to be massive risks and breaking the the the paradigm of what everybody thought was the rustling model in the day day in the way story should be told during the day or at that time that it really I had so much fun watching it. I could probably sit back can watch it again in pick out even more things that I'm I'm excited about. There's there's and we'll talk about it. I don't WanNa give the whole thing away. As the show goes on we'll talk about those moments that I wish I could have do over or if we were going to re book at how would I would have I would have probably approach it today having twenty some odd years more experience and and you know the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight but for the most part really really proud of this effort by the entire. WCW A. B. C. W. team at that time yeah. I'm going to recommend if you're an ulcer wrestling fan go onto the show this week. There's so much good stuff on here and there's some there's some stuff off the might doesn't age as well but gosh what a great show and what a great time to be a wrestling fan of course we're talking about fall brawl nineteen ninety-six with Donald September fifteenth paint so the anniversary the show just a few days ago from Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Winston Salem North Carolina as eleven eleven thousand three hundred in the building ten thousand seven hundred and fourteen of those paid a decent gate but not nearly what's to come for WCW in the future one hundred fifty the three grand and then another fifty thousand in merchandise it does point six Albar eight for one point six two million dollars pay per view revenue it would as you probably figured out Hulk Hogan is now a bad guy that happened in July so just two months prior to this of course he won the World Title L. and spray painted the interview onto the big gold belt one month prior at the very first hog wild before it would be renamed renamed road wild and now we're back in a more traditional sort of WCW pay per view fall brawl you know that means war games and we're in the Carolinas and we've talked about this a little bit before about how WCW just sort of made annual events at the same building so for a long time stark arcade was at the MCI Center and for a long time Halloween havoc was in Las Vegas and here for an extended run fall brawl finds itself in the Carolinas is that just sort of Omar's to Jim Crockett promotions or or North Carolina the right fit for Fall Brawl d thing I think part of it was the ammash factor as you as you pointed out. I think that there was still a desire on our part art. Kinda create a tradition. Keep in mind you know as a kid growing up in I'll I'll I'll talk about my my wrestling. Phantom in Minneapolis is probably the most influential on me although I watched it obviously when I watched wrestling when I was a kid growing up in Detroit but you know once I got to be a teenager ager into my early mid teens and I was able to travel with my friends and go to wrestling events without mom or dad you know Thanksgiving was a big wrestling day and eh traditionally in Minneapolis. You know Christmas Day Christmas evening I should say was a big traditional wrestling event Minneapolis. I've I've always believed at least I believe that at that time things have changed now but I believed at the time that you know rusting was a family event in the tradition. was a part of the reason why families kept coming back year after year. You know professional wrestling has been a multi generational family affair if you will that's it's kind of been passed down from father to son father to son for Sunday father you know for decades into this day you know you and I both both have gone to conventions together and sign autographs and you see a gentleman in his sixties or seventies coming up with his son and his thirties and forties news and he's got his son who's in his teens early or early teaser to early adolescent and they all watch wrestling together so I think that sense of generational of ewing in participation and experience is something that kind of just lent itself to trying to do the same thing in the same venues each time time of year and I think for a long time at work and part of it was again. WCW formerly the NWEA I guess the heritage of of many of our performers including sting and Luger Anderson and many of the other ones that we use at the time early on a WCW we're all born in that southeastern part of the the United States so it was just a natural fit well and it's probably a natural fit for this podcast and some of our listeners over at express express services graduation season just right now in the rear view mirror so a lot of folks probably looking to get the first GIG and you're looking for a new job. Maybe you should just let job genius power your job search. Here's the deal job genius offers free advice on job searching resume writing interviewing taking the tips. You need to Asia first day on the job visit expresspros dot com slash job genius today search job genius on Youtube unless that educational the video series be your guide for entering the workforce job genius is brought to you by express employment professionals a leading staffing company that employs more than half a million people a year express offers good paying jobs and administrative roles including customer service sales accounting positions as well as the skilled labor jobs like drivers forklift operators welders I and even CNC programs apply now at Expresspros Dot Com. Just call your local office. You can even complete your application over the phone C. Express nose jobs jobs. It's time for you to get to know express and express associate in New York said express is far more professional than other staffing agencies and they found me work right away a job seeker in New Jersey said expressed is simply the best. They're effective efficient and do what they say. When you apply for a job you need a callback an opportunity to to interview so let your local express employment specialists help yeah Dobson never pay a fee at expressed and each week express has thousands of open positions nations so don't go it alone in your job search get to know express and find your local office right now at expresspros dot com or on the express jobs APP and I should mention that business here continues to climb and this is sort of the story of W W in this era September ninety-five which by the way is the month that Nitra started your average attendance is two thousand one hundred forty fans now because of the hype of the and the consistency of good shows on nitro where ref sixty one percent or three thousand four hundred and fifty four fans by September of Ninety six and your gate? That's not up sixty one percent. That's a hundred hundred and fifteen percent average gay and September of ninety five is a paltry eighteen thousand seven hundred and fifty bucks one year later over forty grand forty thousand four hundred and three dollars in ratings by the way they're up twenty one percent as well. He did a one point nine in September of ninety five a two point three here and September number of ninety-six. We should mention that raw was preempted on September second. of course the holiday weekend so nitro does a great rating four point three the next week raw comes back to a two point four nitro still on top three point seven the September sixteenth show which would be the night after this pay-per-view nitro once again three point seven rows down to a two point one on September twenty third three point four for Nitro too for all and let's close out September on the thirtieth three point three for Nitro two point three for raw every single week you're winning. I feel L. and September of ninety six well. It was very validating to say the least and again. It's hard to describe the feeling AH I don't WANNA be redundant in this but you know when you've when you've been a distant number two you know when I came to WCW you were the number two wrestling company in the world but the gap between number one and number two it was so distant that it might have been measured better in light years as opposed to numerically and I it kind of beat you down you start looking at yourself in a way as you know the inevitable number two and nothing is ever going to change range. Nobody really believes it can no matter how much we try to convince ourselves and we would try to be each other's cheerleader and WCW even when I first got into the management side of the equation deep down inside we were kind of always resolved to be maybe a better number number two and maybe you know make a little more money and increase revenues and profit Martha so forth but deep down inside we we knew that we were kidding ourselves most of the time until we started thinking about the product differently and I don't generally like to put myself over in in these things but again it wasn't because I was you know lying in bed awake at night. You know coming up with ways to improve the product liked initially at least it was because I had a figurative gun to the back of my head once nitro. Was You know put on my radar Karen. I was it was a mandate. It was a request it was a mandate and I knew I had to either sink or swim. The there was no there was nothing in the middle and that forced forced me to start thinking about the product as differently as I possibly could. I know I've said this before but I don't think I can overstated stated or say it too often. You know when you're in a competitive environment and I'm talking about a generally competitive environment like television was and still is to this date so in many many respects is far more competitive. Now there's ever been simply because you're not just competing against the product had your same genre you're competing against all other forms of you know platform viewing and just viewing habits and patterns have changed so much over the last twenty or twenty five years but I think in anytime you're in a in a comp- really do or die kind of competitive situation and I remember saying to myself. I have three choices I can be better than A. WWF The time it was a wwf. I could try to be better than them at what they're already great at. I looked at the odds of that. If I was a gambler and I was putting money on our our proposition as far as being better than them at what they were already good at with an audience that they already had there was a very loyal audience the odds of winning that were pretty slim if existent at all I knew I could be different than them. That was completely within within my control there was nobody preventing me from making a list of things that that we could do that would make us decidedly different than the WWF and give the fans a chance to vote on it with their remotes or by default. If I wasn't different than in a way that was compelling for the audience and interesting testing for the audience I would be by default less than so it was the better than different than less than kind of formula that I focused I don I immediately you know eliminated any effort or or resolve to try to be better than the WWF at what they were already fantastic at and try to take away an audience that was already loyal to them for decades. I knew I didn't want to be less than the. WWF that wasn't an option so so I was forced out after thinking through it and visualizing it I was forced to find as many ways to be as different as I could possibly be and not just the colors of the ring mat in the ring ropes and the lighting and the graphics are all superficial. Things are all important. Don't get me wrong but they they fundamentally. They don't change the way someone feels about a product about a television product. I knew I had to change the way the audience felt belts about us US meaning. WCW felt about our brand felt about the way we told our stories. I had to change the way that the audience felt it's about our characters and once that became clear to me I didn't make wholesale change across the board but many of the things that we did in terms of the way we were telling stories in the way we presented our characters started having pretty dramatic almost instantaneous detaineees kind of positive reactions as you kind of pointed out by this time in fall of nineteen ninety-six you know in terms of your what your question was. How did it make me feel? It was validating because those changes that I envisioned that forced us to be different than the competition were beginning to manifest in higher ratings higher gates as you pointed out better pay per view buy rates and just general energy whether it's in the arena when we were putting on whether it was a pay per view or live evanger nitro whatever was whether it was the energy in the arena whether it was the energy in the Locker Kareem was the energy production staff who had previously for five or six years been walking around like whip puppies the just were defeated before they even got to work every morning they felt defeated. They felt unwanted. They didn't really feel like part of the Turner Organization because it was made clear to them that nobody nobody really wanted them to be on the in the catalog anyway and then all of a sudden to to completely turn that on its head and have people within Turner Broadcasting that all of them not the ones that were really important other than Ted but many of the people that up until that point in really WanNa will be seen hanging around with WCW people then really WanNa talk about ww as part of the Turner Organization all of a sudden those people were calling and asking for backstage passes and hey by kids you know needs to have somebody come and talk to the class could someone from WCW calm that had never happened before foreign is insignificant as that may seem from an organizational perspective. It was massive. It changed the way everybody felt not just the fans. The ants not just the talent but everybody from production to people that worked in the office to the security guard you know in the C. N. N. Center everybody felt different about the product and that I think was one of the most rewarding things and this time in particular is when it really be really became obvious to us and we started really feeling it for the first time what became obvious that the interview was a growing organization here as well on the August twenty six nitro. DRC shows up in the crowd and he's counting from four and then five the implication being he's the fourth member of the interview. Oh behind of course Scott Hall Kevin Nash Hulk Hogan That would make him the number four but then he shows the thumb meaning. Hey Fifth guy coming up allegedly according to the rumor Innuendo Saviozzi was supposed to be the fifth and maybe somebody else was supposed to be in there before and there's been some names that have been discussed Sean Wallman anti-british A and British bulldog. Do you remember having discussions about perhaps bringing bulldog in here absolutely none and that is no nothing disparaging urging it all meant in that statement but again casting now one thing that I did do well at least in the beginning in one thing that I learned very quickly and I want to be honest about this. It's not you know when when the whole N. W. O. Idea was just loosely forming in my head long before I knew Scott Hall on and Kevin Nash would even be available. I don't want to suggest that I had envision. This takeover. Hostile takeover group is this referred to here and I think it's important also now historically. I think we hear the term takeover used a lot. Now I don't know if this was the first time it was ever used but I think in terms of the context of how we introduced the NWF Scott Hall and Kevin Nash and establish the hostile takeover specifically typically on this pay per view. We branded fairly strongly. it might have been the first if not the first very close to it and I think it was probably one of the more at least at the very least if it wasn't the first time the hostile takeover kind of theme had been introduced Sports Entertainment. If it wasn't the first time it was was probably done better than any time previous to that but I don't want to suggest that I had this casting vision that I I wanted. Did you know the characters in this hostile takeover to be you know kind of the anarchists and street thugs abuse and the look that we ultimately came up with but once we saw Kevin once we saw Scott once the end wwl began to take shape and form you know we were careful at least in the beginning a about how we cast it now admitted this so many times on this show. I've talked about it at nauseam. Yes the end eventually grew too big. The casting became weaker and weaker and weaker but at the early stages when we're talking about the fourth of the Fifth Guy show-me woman was discussed because he was a natural fit if you're casting director in Hollywood and you were producing a movie on the WWL wwl you even if you didn't know who shown Waldman was as a as a performer he had that look he had that vibe about him and obviously with a character in the history that he had Wisconsin Kevin it was even more of a fit but British bulldog was a square peg in that round casting hole if you will there was no fit at all with British bulldog and there it was never a conversation about great talent valuable for former an amazing asset knock no question about that but not in that role we should also mentioned this is the nitro where Hogan Hall and Nash Attack Sting Luger in the horsemen basically leave him all laying and then Hogan spray paints in w on everyone except zipped Lex Luger and then spray spray paints like a black streak down the middle of ric flair's head and back amazing heat here one of the first times uh-huh that we get to see this spray painting all guys act and for whatever reason there's lots of people who always always sort of raise their hand and take credit for this thing or that thing but something a lot of people say that when it came to building heat for the interview oh every week on Nitro oh Kevin Sullivan was pretty hard to beat pretty integral in that process everything dimmer. No I would agree with that kind of I'm sorry to cut you off. I absolutely would agree to that in one of the reasons Kevin Sullivan came to WCW when dusty was was really booking early on when I took over management in WCW is does he said I need somebody that can that can book heat right now and that was that was Kevin s according wanting to dusty and I had you know I had no experience in creative you know when I took over. WCW Zero I hadn't spent five minutes creative meeting when I took over. WCW So it was all new to me and not by choice but out of necessity I had to rely on people that had more experienced than I did whether it was the talent in some cases or the booker who was in that chair that particular time and in this instance it was st roads and does he said when it comes to book and Heat Kevin is one of the best I will say that you know in watching this show as I told you offline before we started this broadcasts looking back at it yeah. There's some do-overs I wish I could do. There's some bad choices it clearly there are some and we'll get we'll talk about it but Kevin for his false which we all. Have you know. None of us are a hundred percent complete when it comes to creative Kevin Strength without question was booking heat and many of the the more successful finishes or beats or moments that really stand out when you look at the body of work you know that is the in wwl were generated if not completely by Kevin in large part by Kevin. I'm curious what you think today when you know wrestling is is thriving again whether it's Emel W or impact or Japan or you know obviously w W. and wwe and there's there's so much opportunity in the wrestling landscape. Why don't you think Kevin Sullivan is involved somewhere behind the scenes so as much as he's this book and created and thick as his resume is? It's like a natural fit for him to have a spot somewhere more freestyle guests as to why maybe that's it's not the cash you know I've thought about that myself. Especially after you know having reconnected with Kevin thanks to you at star cast and a couple of other events yeah I ran into the cavern and about a year and a half ago at star cast and that's really the first time Kevin and I had been in the same room together in over twenty years and it was such a great great opportunity to reconnect with Kevin and he is like all of us. I think he's got wiser probably able to reflect flecked back at some of the the choices you know that he made business wise and and personally and reflecting probably much better personnel way around you you know as a result of just getting older and wiser He's a very talented guy. I think he probably still could if he wanted to be and I think that's it's probably my answer. This Kevin Kevin Sutherland really want to be involved in the business again. He hasn't gotten he hasn't lost any feel he he. Maybe maybe he's been dormant for a long time. Trust me I know that feeling when you're not thinking about the business of the wrestling business especially on the creative side for five ten fifteen twenty years you know it's a little bit like ring rust. It doesn't come back overnight. It's not like you can flip a switch and be right back to where you were five ten fifteen twenty years ago in terms of your feel for what works and what doesn't work combine that with the fact that what works today today or excuse me what were twenty years ago or fifteen years ago or even five years ago won't necessarily work today so you too the things you have to do. If if I'm Kevin Sullivan and I was his manager I would say an and he said to me okay manager. I'm thinking about maybe breaking back into the business again and tapping in one unless time. How should I go about that I can tell you from personal experience just even most recently with wwe the first thing that I would do would be to immerse myself in the product that exists today? Look at what works today because a natural tendency for anybody is and I don't care how atop the top of your game you are and how active you may be in this business today. Your natural instinct is to go out to what worked recently light or five years ago or four years ago as a starting-point doesn't mean you're going to do it but as a starting point you're going to reflect back to and I think the same thing happens with movie producers and television producers. That's why we see so many you know the new whatever you know in the feature film business there were there rebranding reintroducing being hold brands. You know people go back to a formula that works in in I think in wrestling e for Guy like Kevin Sullivan or anybody else. It's been out of it for for a long time. I think you have to really understand what's working today and why it's working today and then start applying once you've kind of you know reengaged reengaged that creative muscle again in and cause that that muscle that in your brain that created much like the muscles in your body. There's a muscle so memory there. There's a creative muscle memory. I think that exists but before you start trying to use it you've got a condition. It and I think you have to condition it into in a way that allows you to really understand what's currently working and then start applying. I think some of the formulas that have worked for you in a Paso I think with Kevin Evan he's been out of it so long and I don't know and I certainly don't want to say anything that would offend Kevin but I don't know if he has the confidence because he's been out of it so long to re-engage. I don't know if he's waiting for somebody to give them a call and say Hey Kevin Yeah. We'd like to bring the Anna just have you give us some thoughts on on on how we might make our products better product or maybe he's just happy living warriors living and doing what he's doing and I can understand that too. That's also the big part of it as you get older and he settled into a good life when I talked to him at stark asked he was the head of a very good life living in you know in Washington he he likes being by the water. He likes fishing his. It's just always been his life and he's pretty content so he may not feel the need to. I don't know but I think he's a valuable asset. I I would agree and if he wants to do something I hope he finds a spot. Excuse me I don't know that he wants to but another Chris Jericho was I was looking for a spot and he dated a Byu here on August twenty six that same nitro that we talked about that ended with the end of you leaving everybody lying he's going to make his debut you against Alex Wright and of course most recently you've probably seen him on television and he did the when worlds collide pay per view with you guys and this is really his first the big break in that episode by the way does a four point three rating and a seven point to share so homerun episode to Wrap Up August for WCW and there's some other good news they restraining order hearing involving the WBF Lawsuit Against WCW for trademark infringement was found to be settled out of court. You guys were able to figure out a compromise and a consent order was signed by both sides and meltzer would say w should I be agreed to not have any employees or independent contractors who worked for the company Call Scott Hall Either Razor Ramon or the bad guy or call Kevin Nash either diesel or big daddy cool so in addition. WCW's not allowed to state that either hall or Nash currently work for the WWF since ww wasn't about to do that anyway it appeared to be you pretty much an amicable deal. Now I mentioned this because famously. It's GonNa come out that he has had some sort of internal memo where he referred to Scott Hall as razor and they're going to sort of hang their hat on that. What do you remember about hearing that Hey hey somehow got a hold of our memo and somebody at the office typed razor not Scott Hall and now they've got heartburn about it yeah the the WWF MC dividend his team got well through Discovery they were able to request all of our formats documents minson internal memos emails and all the things that go along with this type of litigation and they were able to find in a rough draft that was internal attornal only obviously that someone had referred to Scott Hall as Razor Ramon a razor we we did it happened? There's no way around it was there in black and white now. Let's put some context around that and I'm not trying to defend it or justified it. It is what it is. It was what it was however I think common sense would suggest that we knew do we were never going to present Scott Hall as razor or Razor Ramon on camera we didn't when he first showed up he was Scott Hall but as is often the case and this is just kind of something that happens in this unique little universe that we live in called sports entertainment or the professional wrestling at the time that out of respect you ten one. I should say one tends to refer to a Rustler's you referred to by their character name not by their first name and that's to me I I when I'm out in public in and and I'm with my friend Terry Belaya. I never call him Jerry. I always call them hulk. If there's just one other person in the room I refer to him as hawk. That's that that's that's not mark them. That's not fandom. That's respect and I think whoever was putting that one sheet or rough draft together together just kind of fell into that natural sociological kind of mandate date that you you refer to character as or an individual as their most recent character name so inadvertently the not with any intent to exploit that name or that trademark once that format where to hit air. It's somebody wrote down razer referring to to Scott Hall instead of referring to him as Scott Hall. I understand how it happened. Why it happened is I just explained? It was just kind of natural you know what I see talent today in WWe I I don't I don't refer to them by their real names refer to them by their character names. It's just what I've grown up learning to do. It's how I was trained. It's how I was conditioned in this business. It's it's like martial arts. You know when I first got really really involved in in martial arts. You were taught that anybody who is brown belt or above above you refer to them as Mr as a sign of respect because they've achieved a level of success or or a certain level of discipline I and in that and with that comes respect from lower belt rankings and to this day when I see seat Ernest Miller and if we're in a group of people he's not ernest. He's Mr Miller not because he was my instructor or not because of any other reason other then he he has attained a very high level of success in his sport and just the way I've been conditioned. I referred to him Mr Miller when I'm in public now. The same kind of thing is true in professional wrestling at least it was maybe not as much as it used to be but like I say I know how it happened and I know why it happened but it's it's kind of funny the WWF Juerg it's not funny it's understandable turmeric difference great lawyer and he was able to camp out on that and make a point in in in one on that point we should mention there is another legal issue sorta hanging out there Sean Waldman volley could leave and they agreed to give him a release but now because because of the way they've handled hall and Nash they're not really wanting to allow him to appear on TV and you use any of his old mannerisms or or dress the same way or look the same way. Obviously you know everybody knows you can't use the name one two three kid and allegedly he was going to be the guy who debuted before DRC but this legal wrangling meant that DRC would debut I instead what are you remember about them trying to tie Wallman here. I don't remember the details of it. I wasn't involved in it so the reason I don't remember is because I wasn't involved. I know that there was an issue but the details of that issue were being dealt with by probably Nick Lambros and Diana Myers at that time but I I know that there was a challenge and I know that it was it wasn't smooth transition. Let's put it that way I do. I do remember the one element of it. Is You know okay. We can't use one-two-three kid. We knew that that was is it like news to us but that's how he became six and that was my idea. It's like okay. Let's one two three the eagles six. Let's put it out a pool ball and now he's six. That's where that came from and I think incidentally he became the sixth member member as well so and work a few different ways he debuts right after this fall brawl show that we're talking about but I guess it's the next night on Nitro September sixteenth lengthened facts but allegedly he's ready to go and thinking he would be good to go hog wild back in August but all of this wwf back and forth nonsense sense delays it Mike today debuts as the third announcer on the September second nitro talk to me a little bit about Mike today and we haven't really spent much time talking about him on the show here. How does he I come to you? How do you become acquainted with him? And why is he the right guy for the third seats. Mike Today came aim to me through Breslau off the late Breslau who was pretty pretty close friend of Mine Zane used to love going to Las Vegas he used to love the gamble all on sports and might today was very active in that space at the time my Tony was also very knowledgeable bull wrestling fan when it came to all things going on outside of the US he really had a close watch on what was going on in Japan Dan he understood and was very knowledgeable about Lucia Lebron and the things that were going on in Mexico and Zane introduce reduce me to him and I was so impressed with his knowledge that really didn't exist in. WCW You know a lot of new of you know Lucci Ray we knew all of of what was going on in Mexico and kind of had a very very well we had a very little understanding of it all we knew it was going on we were familiar earlier with it but in terms of what was really happening and why and who is really influential in Mexico and why we weren't paying attention to it it just it wasn't it was Mike on the other hand was walking talking encyclopedia and I felt like that was missing. I knew that I wanted to introduce introduce a lot more international type talent in our in type. I want to introduce more international talent on our show. I wanted to bring in a lot more of the deluged doors for Mexico I wanted to bring in more Japanese and just bringing in the loser doors bringing in the Japanese just for the sake of bringing them in without being able to do a great job in the announce team on the announcing in telling their back stories in a lot being able to comment went on those performers in a way that allowed the audience to feel like they were learning something and all of a sudden you know care about some of his talent in a way that you wouldn't achieve if you just plop them out dropped him out in the middle of the ring and had a great match great a great badge but if you don't what if you don't know their backstory you can't make them relatable to to the audience that it's just no more than a great match and Mike was Fantastic at that he was I loved him being not a you know. You have a play by play guy who's really his play-by-play persons in my opinion is to help dramatically relay the story of what's going on inside of the ring and vern guy new used to tell me you know a good play by play man. is someone who could describe what's going on in the ranks so someone who perhaps was blind could imagine that match and your color commentator is there to do just that to provide color to give context to create emotion that may not be created in calling a match and describing what's really going on inside side of the ring in a in an exciting way obviously but you're caller commentator can kind of tilt that commentary and help tell those stories from a a protagonist kind of position or an antagonise position her baby face whatever you WanNa call it and just add life to the commentary but my feeling was a guy like Mike today could come in as the third man and really at a level of detail and back story history and context to the play by play and color in a way that would make the the the commentary booth a much more efficient and effective way way of painting the picture for audience from an from an audio perspective who are paint a picture for you right now and it's a picture about saving money. My friends ends when you switch to boost mobile. You'RE GONNA get more so much more that you're going to be surprised how much more at every turn about this it's because boosts doesn't offer just just one great thing and offers many great things like are super reliable super fast nationwide network but there's more about four lines for just twenty five dollars per line per month with unlimited gigs for data talk and text unlimited as even more though check this out four free. LG Stilo five phones with the whole family of course we're talking about boost mobile the switch that issue more and this is such a cool offer I I I don't know that I've ever even heard of unlimited gigs of data with with four lines and four free phones. This is power that making money on this. I don't know brother I since you last week the only way this deal could get any better is boost mobile was paying its customers to use service and I use this guy and he used to joke about that. I guess it's not really funny but in a way it is when things are really really tough vern either. I know how I can make more money. I'll get the wrestlers to pay me to be on my television show well. This is about the same thing I'm sure boosters in great shape but the only way that this deal could get any better is if the customers were being paid by boost to use it. I don't know how a deal can get in better. I really don't it's unbelievable. Wartime four lines twenty five dollars per line per month unlimited gigs of data. We're talking talk text the whole thing but there's more for free. LG Stilo five phones perfect for the whole family boost mobile the switch that gives you more offers coverage not available everywhere free phone requires port in additional terms and conditions apply visit boost mobile dot com for your nearest retailer for details. I just don't know how they're making I. I know we talk about business a lot here but I don't know how they're making money for that. Look ahead to check when we first got the copy for this a couple the weeks ago before I did this. I was paying more for just one line. I mean not not counting what everybody else is doing. I'm saving money. You will to boost mobile mm-hmm the switch that gives you more. Let's talk a little bit about The British pulled Argon. I know you said that there wasn't a plan for him to come into the end of you. Oh but I mean that's clearly a talent you'd like to have in. WCW and was reported multiple different ways. You guys were in negotiations here. In Ninety six the X. Course he winds up resigning with the F. instead what would the creative have been I mean he'd been with. WCW before and obviously you are in the middle it'll a little bit of a war what he had been on the WCW side of things in this interview war would he not really have participated in that angle at all think well there was no creative put in place prior to negotiations during negotiations looking back clearly he would have been when I say they clearly because he as we talked about earlier from casting perspective he would just would not have fit really on the NWF side but he to answer a question yeah I I can imagine he would very easily fit on the WCW side of the equation the real impetus and desire to sign David boy had a lot more to do with his value for us in terms of international touring so it wasn't as much of a creative decision necessarily not that that there wouldn't have been created for them and not that that wasn't important but the the reason that we really wanted to sign Davey boy Smith was because of his value internationally so it was more of a the strategic acquisition as opposed to a creative one talks to me about the giant you know we we haven't spent a ton of time talking about his situation here but just a couple of weeks after Hulk Hogan beats him for the title at Hog wild turns on Randy savage to join the end of you. Oh while the sudden turn for the giant lots of people including people you don't really like have sort of freestyle that maybe the original plan and was that Davey boy was coming into the interview and you've shot that down and when that doesn't happen and he winds up resigning with every half you feel like well we need to deliver liver another member and that other member becomes the giant and there would be some criticism that this is a swerve for the sake swerve a surprise for the sake of a surprise because he didn't sort of fit the mold of or coming down from the other company to take over. He was never with the F. talks talk to me about the giant and and do you think in hindsight maybe that was one. You wish you had back you know first of all that rumor rumor innuendo that suggested that Davey boy Smith was going to be a part of the N W was flat out Wong it just was in the same individual who last week when we didn't beat up on this too much but last week you know the same individual wrote you know in his dirt sheet that that the ready to rumble movie was really about the tragic circumstances surrounding Owen Hart. I mean that's that's what he reported and and nothing was further from the truth which is usually the case or so often the case in so much of what is reported in that kind of format a dirt sheet. It's just flat out wrong wrong so the premise of that rumor innuendo suggesting that well since Davey boy Smith wasn't going to be the fourth guy there's pressure on her Bischoff to deliver liver force guy so he just chose the giant is again fundamentally profoundly incorrect. It's just is so since the the entire premise of that rumor nyu it was false. I can only talk about why the decision was made which had nothing to do with the rumor Innuendo clearly. We knew we wanted to read a we wanted to have a war. We knew going. We knew we had something hot. We knew in order to have this. WCW Byu vs N W O war we had to build up the WWL Rosser you can't have a war when you've got a a roster of thirty five guys or forty five guys in WCW against against three guys in N. wwl I think even dirty writers could do the math and figure that one out so we knew going into this war premise in the the storyline that we had hoped would last for quite a while that we had to build a wrecks and the rationale behind Paul was to give of the NWF because they were outnumbered to give into bureau that one massive heater that won the giant that you know even though the odds may it'd be stacked against WCW WCW had the heavy artillery you know in addition to hall and Nash and and Obviously Hogan so that was the logic behind it. It was nothing to do with the pressure in the swerve and feeling to you know I know that's the underlying narrative that certain people like to write about or did back then but it just wasn't true it that wasn't true. It had nothing to do with the creative. It wasn't like I was trying to. I didn't wake up every Monday morning thinking okay. How am I going to swerve my audience tonight? I know that's the narrative because we did. We did use a lot of swerves. We did keep the audience guessing. If you notice you know one of the the things that launched this whole story line was who's the third man a big surprise a swerve yes and by the way it worked the underlying premise here or theme. I shouldn't say promised the theme here is WHO's. WCW's fourth man. We went back to something that worked. Yes we use a lot of diversions and a lot of swerves as they're called in a wrestling business misdirect if you want if you want to be more technical about it we use a lot of directs to keep the audience off balance and guessing again going back to the launch of nitro one of the things that came out of that. I'M GONNA go a little into the weeds here so be prepared one of the things that really really became crystal clear to me as we were developing the strategy and the creative strategy for Nitro business strategy and creative strategy was we did a tremendous amount of research we did focus groups all over the United States we did focus groups with current. WWF fans at that time we did focus groups with laps. WWF Fans we same thing with WCW fast current laps we did focus groups with people that kind of peripherally a few late they'll watch every once in a while but they weren't huge fans and over the course of a gun. I think we did this research. I don't know fifteen or twenty different cities it was there was a lot of work I was traveling all over the country doing it and we'd sit and we would watch these and there were some Times fifteen twenty twenty-five people in these focus groups of all age age you know all ages men women and we would they would watch a show for example they would watch. WWF show on tape and they would all be hooked up to these dial meters in these dial meters were all integrated together so that all of us from WCW or turn broadcasting who were sitting behind this one way mirror so that we could see out and they can see us. We were watching this focus group. Watch watch the product and while the product was while they were watching the product the the focus groups were instructed that when they saw something they liked turn the dial to the right they really love it. Turn it all the way to the right and pegged the meter if there was something that they didn't like turn into the left if they hated it just peg it to the left so what would happen as these down meters were integrated on a computer we could literally watch the average reaction of twenty five fifteen twenty twenty-five different people in a graph on our version of that same same show so we could look almost like minute by minute second by seconds we could see how the audience was reacting to certain interviews to backstage wjr promos. If you will to entering promos to action to the events at LE- led up to action so that you could really we get a sense of what the audience really enjoyed and out of all of that out of all of that research. I walked away with two two or three different in every every every focus group. You'd walk away with a little piece of information that you could apply you know. Research is something I'm going to go into the weeds even deeper here research is great. I'm a firm believer for in research the more data I have to work with the better I like it. However research can be a very dangerous? Things Wchs thing if it's in the wrong hands. It's like you know giving a five year old the loaded weapon you know if they don't know how to use it. It can be a horrible tragic. Adjective Event and research almost have the same devastating impact on a product if you have people if you have executives don't really understand how to apply that research then it can it can work against you so despite the fact that we got tons of data you know the two or three things things that I took away from that. There's probably more but let's say there's three things I took away from it won. The audience wants to be surprised they crave it when they're watching a wrestling show. Despite the you know four Star five-star mentality that is so prevalent in today's product the fee and maybe you know today's a little bit different. I'll admit that but back in the this period of time ninety five ninety six ninety seven ninety eight the wrestling audiences that we did massive focus groups abso- suggested to us that they really above all else they wanted to be surprised above all else they loved the tension attention right before the action and to kind of give you a parallel example of that. It would be like if you're watching a western amazing myself here but if you're watching A. Wester and there's always that scene in the old western from the fifty sixty seventy s whatever eighties where the two gunfires neatness the middle of the street at at at noon or whatever and there's a tension that builds right before you know somebody draws i. The same kind of love reaction happens in wrestling wrestling fans are focus groups back then things have changed admittedly back then it wasn't so so much the action that they appreciate it was the build up to the action those moments Conrad of you and I were coming face to face in the middle of the ring and you're the baby face and I was the heel the slower we came together and more tension we built in that one moment before one of us actually landed a blow that is the peak or was I should say that was the peak across the boards in our focus groups so yes I did. I tried to surprise the audience of course I did did I did I do which who often maybe I did but it it worked really well. As as we've talked talked about here in this era they really love cliffhangers they wanted. They wanted you to leave them wanting more not give them so much that they wanted less. So did I try as best I could as often as I could to create a show that rather than leaving leaving with a finish or leaving in a way that kind of put a period at the end of the sentence for that particular episode that I try to find ways to create eighty cents of a cliffhanger of course I did did I overdo it. You could argue that a by that. I'll take it but the surprise this or the swerve or the bist direct however you want to call it was something that the audience in our focus groups told us they wanted more of and yes. I did it a lot but not just because I was in the mood because I was informed by a vast amount of research that didn't come from dirt sheets sheets that that's what the audience wanted and had nothing to do with my personal taste and me just doing it for the fun of doing at Nance swerving the boys as an all that kind of worship that that's been floating around out there for twenty seven years so if you had to do over again you would still put the giant interview yeah. I think I would've yeah I would've again context at that time under those conditions yeah I would've do want to circle back something you said a minute ago 'cause I hadn't heard that I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just maybe I missed you. Read or heard somewhere that Owen Hart was supposed to be a topic in the movie not a topic topic of the movie hold on. I'm going to pull it up because I I saw last week to notes and I thought it was so unbelievable. Hold on as I'm scrolling. Let me tell you why you're scrolling when you go to box of awesome dot com if you're constantly on the go grinding away at the office hanging out with friends and there's not much time to think about upgrading your style or your apartment. That's all I can. I love getting new box also from spoke post every month you guys were scouting out for quality and unique products ascendant each box and now you you can experience the two at box awesome dot com and I just got a new box of awesome myself. They call it refresh. It's a classy DOPP kit. That's pretty cool. Oh Man when when the House the wife said who sent you that because with that cool and she thought and you don't have the taste to pick something out like that on your own made me look cool man box of awesome dot com do that for you to to get started visit box of awesome dot com answer a few short questions and that will help them get a feel for the boxes that will go with your style. Whether you're looking for the perfect drink or well-kept pat or just jet-set now how spoke post improves your life one box at a time and check this out. Each box goes for under fifty bucks but there's more than seventy dollars worth of stuff inside really cool unique gear waiting just for you the first of each month you'll receive an email with all your box details and then from there. 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His podcast bag is the weekender bag from bespoke post. It's a cool bag. He gets compliments every goes. You're GONNA love it. Check it out box of awesome dot com okay so I find my notes from last week and I did to your point. I did speak. I did Miss B but here let me read it to you this from Dave Meltzer and again from last week's show now. I'm reading from your notes here. The wrestling movie which by the way was called Roy ready to rumble is was far too long meaning. It couldn't be dropped. This was all within the context of me leaving. WCW and some of the ideas that I brought to to the table that presumably were dropped because now I was gone but the movie according to Meltzer was far too long and will be produced next month Bischoff who was to star in the movie as something of a Vince McMahon character now keep in mind. I was the heel authority figure before Vincent man was the Heel Authority figures so to suggest last or imply that I was trying to become a vincent man version of WCW is kind of inauthentic or Horse Shit just from the get go but Eric Bischoff was to star in the in the movie as something of Vince McMahon character in a terribly scripted story based on what what happened to breath heart now to win heart Bret Hart now while I misspoke and said Oh and heart the fact that it was a according to Dave Meltzer in in again this is something by the way I'm going to try not to be too aggressive here or too much worse his ass but it but it but honestly if you're going to write something about a movie first of all the movie wasn't my idea as I said last week Warner Brothers came to me I I didn't go to Warner Brothers. This wasn't the you know the the the rumor and Innuendo and rumor and Innuendo easy for me to say and the narrative specifically by Meltzer at the the time was that I wanted to be a Hollywood guy. Okay Warner Brothers came to me and said we want to do this. Movie okay that that wasn't you know what I mean. What am I supposed to have said no Jesus? That's a bad idea. I don't WanNa take that to my bosses because that would make it look like I'm actually working with super mega entertainment powerhouse. That's about to invest in US and acquire us so I'm GONNA. I'M GONNA camp out and say no Dave Dave meltzer might not like it but anyway the movie was too far along and we'll be produced next month the Vince McMahon based on what happened to Bret Hart. Nothing is further from the truth nothing and if Dave Meltzer was even pretending to be a journalist or pretending to have a modicum of credibility it would have been very easy for him to find out what the movie script was about. He was too fucking lazy to pick up the phone and do the work so instead he went with the narrative that Eric Bishop because he wanted to be a Hollywood guy his got Warner Brothers to do a movie script about what happened to Bret Hart profoundly telling about Dave Meltzer's credibility not only then but now we'll just let it go at that here. We thought we'd get through a freaking episode without having to get into this shit and I leaned into it I did. It's my fault. It's it's my bad I couldn't I couldn't lead out of this. We could have gotten by the so easily but but it just still drives me crazy how people so many many people believe the Horsh it that these people right because they have their own little personal you know in for their own insecurities insecurities they've got their own agendas and they you know they have a platform and they put this stupid shit out there and unfortunately people read it and they believe it well people did believe believe is that razor in diesel coming back to the WWF on the Friday edition of Monday night raw because they called it rawls championship Friday Tayer Championship Prodi Rohr whatever Jr is saying that diesel and razor are coming back to the WWF of course he doesn't say Scott Hall or Kevin Nash Owning the names diesel and razor and he says the breaking story. We talked about earlier in the show that I really believe will be the big story of the year here in the World Wrestling Federation is this big daddy cool diesel and the bad Guy Razor Ramon or on their way back to the world wrestling federation I have that on good authority from some very reliable sources and Kevin Kelly would respond unbelievable news. Jr what a huge story that would be Jr reiterates Maas sources tell me and they've been very reliable sources. It had them for years that this in fact is the big daddy cool and Razor Razor Ramon and they're on their way back to the World Wrestling Federation that is awesome. I mean as oh awesome. I just love it well behind the scenes of course you know Scott Hall and Kevin Nash of Particularly Kevin Nash of double down on the idea that when you heard this you panicked a little thinking that oh no we never officially signed these guys contracts you just had deal memos maybe we need take them contracts and put a little more cheese on their Burger Forum Kevin Good Friends of mine and and a Oh Gosh I can't remember what event it was but about six months ago we were together the three of us you're at the for the love of of wrestling over in the UK now is no it was here. It was a domestic one here here in the states. It doesn't matter where it was but we we did a panel together and there was a one hundred fifty hundred people in the audience. I guess give or take and you know you get quite when you're sitting there. All three of us are sitting there and you you get these questions about things that have been said over the over the years and sometimes we contradict each other Kevin Remembers things one way. I remember them differently. Scott Gallery members things one way. I remember them differently. It happens. You know I it to this day. Some of my best friends have recollections of things that I don't think ever happened put and I'm sure that I have recollections of things that are substantially different than than some of my friends but nonetheless we get out when we're in a live situation or quote unquote shoot interview and we try to be as entertaining and as interesting and recall things the way we do or the or the way we think we recall call them and there's always a conflict I will tell you that I did not panic. They were under contract. There were no deal memos and by the way a deal memo is a binding ending is a binding two forms at your mom's one binding non-binding ours were binding deal memos meaning you you agree to all of the fundamental title terms of an agreement you sign it anticipating a long form to come at a later date long-form off and take a long time to draft but if you have all of the principal elements of deal agreed upon and it's a binding letter of intent or a binding deal memo than this is legal as any contract acting would prevent anybody from leaving anywhere so for whatever reason they may have suggested either to either because the way they remembered it or possibly to be more interesting in an interview for them to suggest that I was in a panic would be incorrect. I can tell you if I can tell you if I was in a panic or not and I was not in a panic. They weren't living inside of my head any more than they tell you back in on this date nineteen ninety-six whether whether I was hungry for pizza or pineapple so you know to suggest that I was in a panic because these guys weren't locked up contractually in my opinion from my perspective is factually incorrect well here's something that is factually correct me gene says his goodbyes and he's saying goodbye to a lot of the company early in this week on the way to fall brawl and on Thursday morning all. WCW employees in the office get in a memo saying that Oakland is no longer with the company and he does appear on the pre show and the countdown package for the pay per view but by that point he's no longer with the company meltzer would say between Oakland's base contracts in his cut of the nine hundred law and it was believed that he was earning somewhere in the neighborhood or four hundred and twenty grand a year here was looking for a raise depending on which store you choose to believe Oakland either a few weeks ago over the past few days spoke with with ran about coming back but not a lot of interest shown on that side uncle and had been playing the going to tighten card and negotiations with WCW and since the Titan Card has been played Oakland is expected to come back to the negotiating initiating table with WCW and most field. There's a good chance he'll end up returning. Jj Dylan is one of the key talent liaisons and booker's in the world wrestling Dunk Federation resigned on Thursday afternoon the same day this memo comes out about mean Jean no longer being with the company and we've we've talked a little bit about both of these things but I do find that interesting then they sort of both happen on the same day and other parts of the country. What are you remember about mean Jean you know leaving? Obviously he's GonNa come right back not too terribly long. After as Meltzer have the assessment of correct he was playing the I'm I'm floatin with Titan and I need more money and you called his bluff and then there was no deal there. Yes I think think for the most part he he does. I will say I wasn't handling genes negotiation. Despite again the perception it's not even rumor innuendo but the perception that every deal that came that was signed by WCW was a was a deal that I negotiated personally is not true I I may have chimed in on certain elements of a deal if it was something unusual to come but for the most part deals were negotiated associated by Turner legal had nothing to do with me now when it came to the financial side of it the you know how it affected my budget and so forth with of course I had input on that but in terms of the actual negotiation up you know day to day back and forth and dealing with agents and attorneys there there were a couple of instances where I was involved and sometimes directly but for the most part I was ten gentle to the process in jeans case I really wasn't part part of the process but I think the I think the way Dave described. There's probably generally pretty accurate. I know there's a lot of meat on the bone about JJ AJ Dylan and and we'll talk more about that a little later but did you know how quickly after he resigns with Vince did you know that he was available and or interested before same day soon. After how did you learn about it and what we told you I didn't. Jj Dylan was no disrespect to JJ. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or say anything to receive at anyway. Somebody intent but I just didn't know who he was. and Kevin Nash came to me probably the day he was let go or shortly thereafter Kevin Nash she came to me because we did need somebody talent. Relations talent relations was a weak spot in in on our management team. You know Taylor enough said that was our kind of talent relations guy you. We knew that that was a weak spot. It's impossible in my opinion. It was impossible for me to find somebody a former talent a former wrestler that you could take out of that wrestling category now groom them to be management because most most talents have very difficult time and eventually can get there but most of them have a difficult time with their transition from being one of the guys in the locker room to now being management. It's a very uncomfortable spot to be in. We've talked about that before it even even even as a writer or as they used to call them booker's you know ric flair was put in an impossible position because he had so much legacy as one of quote unquote the the boys than to take control over people's lives creatively put him in a horrible spot that he just didn't function while under well the same thing is true. I think when it comes to new talent relations you know you it's really difficult to go from being one of the quota Gua- boys to be the boss and for that reason when Kevin Nash came to me and said hey you know. Jj Dillon has been doing this Roland. WWF and he's good at it and you guys have respect for him and Blah Blah Blah. Johnny's not one of the boys at least hadn't been a long time you know and I'm not gonNA. I'M NOT GONNA get into all all of the details here but there was two reasons that I brought him in one because I needed somebody to fill that role and to because I really felt like at that time of his life. Jj Jj needed a great opportunity and because he was in the business and I know how hard it is for people first of all it's hard in in this industry. It's hard to find people I'll say in nineteen ninety six thousand nine hundred seven hundred ninety eight the way the the wrestling industry was managed in the way it operated back then it was hard to take somebody from the outside of the industry unless it was legal or finance finance or some other aspect of the business it is more traditional across other businesses but when it came down to the nuts and bolts in the inner workings workings of the professional wrestling industry it was hard to find people that could fill certain roles and talent relations is one of them so I needed somebody that could fill that role Jay had previously done that role in. WWF Kevin Nash gave me an endorsement and again after talking to jj and even Kevin the one kind of took me offers to what Jj's you know. Personal situation was like. I thought you know what the hell it. We kind of. Check all the boxes. It's it's kind of the right thing to do from my perspective at the time it was the right thing to do generally and you know there's a couple of other reasons. I need to check these boxes and he he seemed to be the guy to fit the bill so yeah I hired him shortly. After he left I don't know if it was a day or two or three but it was pretty soon after he left. Wwf let's let's talk a little bit about the angle that really sold this pay per view the Monday prior is a big show the September ninth nitro the go home home nitro before this pay per view and there's a limo outside. It's raining million dollar man's out there with his umbrella and lex Luger as wanting to know who's in this limo because we assume it's it's the W. O. And we hear stings voice coming from a limo. DB OSCE gets out Luger's there and here stinks. I something like I'm I'm tired of this stuff this. DTA stuff don't trust anybody. He's got to go. You know why you have to learn to trust somebody right now. You've got no way out to the you. Trust him or you. Don't look at me in the eye you know I'll look at you guys and you know you can trust him and then of course stinging attacks lex Luger and this is a really really cool angle. I remember watching this live when it happened thinking. What the hell am I seeing Hogan and sting are bad guys now? I gotta buy this damn pay per view now of course the war games is supposed to be the original three members of the W Hogan Scott Hall Kevin Nash and a fourth man against what we believe to be not just the four horsemen it was maybe it was the original idea but now it's rick and Orne the to sort of stalwarts of the horsemen and stinging lex Luger the the franchise Chaz baby faces of the organization and of course in reality. This isn't Steve Borden. It's Jeff farmer who is previously wrestled ASELTON. WCW's Cobra and he's dressed up like staying and this entire week a lot of fans myself included the holy shits things finally finally a bad guy can't believe this is real. How did the WHO I realized hey jeff former under the paint with the with the right tights and boots and jacket he could pass for staying here is that is that who sees them Jeff Farmer Guy? You're going to ask you that question ever trying to find Jeff farmer farmer I I was with Jeff. We had lunch together in Tokyo right in a restaurant right up right next to the Tokyo Dome back in February and we reminisce I'm an is an and I wished I would have asked him. You know where that idea really originated because as we've said here before most ideas are a collaboration right. You know somebody says hey if we do this and read. What are we doing blue well? Let's run blue. Hey purples great but this is such a important pivot point in this story. You know the fake sting that when I'm going to do I promise you by next week. I'm going to have the answer in fact I may even petition. I know we don't do interviews on the show. I may even petition that we asked you farmer to join us for just a few moments and and describe how that all went down because I always wanted it wasn't my idea. Let's make that clear. It would be really easy for me to say oh I did that. It wasn't my idea somebody somebody came to us. When I say US I mean the creative team and said hey this might work now? It could have been Terry Taylor could have been Kevin Sullivan Kuban Jeff Farmer himself. I don't know but rather than saying I don't know I want to get to the bottom of it in if it's possible to have jeff in his own words enlighten us as S. a. how that really happened because so often like we talked about before you know people remember things different ways and some of it is just because time has passed and you tell the same story over and over and over you give the same answer over and over and over again and you tend to try to find ways to make it a little more interesting than the way told the last time and sometimes forces you or or creates a situation where you're kind of veering off the factual path a little bit and I don't WanNa do that with this. I'm going to say for the record. I don't know it wasn't my idea but we will get to the bottom of it and hopefully next week. We'll talk about it really really great stuff. Go Out of your way to watch this this. This bill is just phenomenal and you're putting over you know that this is the most disappointing thing you've seen in your six years with. WCW You you're doing a great job selling here on commentary as everybody is and it sold me on the pay per view. This was my first pay per view purchased back as a wrestling fan I didn't I didn't decide to pick up summer slam or Hog Wild or in your house mind games for the competition here in September but I did not miss this one man and and I it was this angle the help sell it. I am curious though you know wh- whether other ideas for the the sort of fake sting king concept before or is this really the first time you heard it because it does feel like something that you know with the Blackhawks in being attempted before you were really there. Maybe it could have been a retread but could have also been you know bizarro sting type thing that we had seen before with the undertaker in the under faker and that type of thing it was the first time I had heard it now. I was aware of the Black Scorpion because it was kind of a tongue in cheek. We don't joke that that I had heard it happened before I got the WCW originally but nonetheless the legend of the Black Scorpion lived on as a punchline so I I was aware of it as a result of that but the idea you know the way it was presented again. I can't wait to find out exactly where it started but the way it was presented to me felt fresh and it was a good idea I mean we knew the reason we did it is because we had looked at Jeff in in his his fake sting gear. We knew that we could we could fool the audience you know by that time. Sings hair had grown dark. You know he wasn't bleaching it blonde anymore. Physically they were very very close and because of the face paint it wasn't that difficult to you know to pull this off and when we saw jeff farmer in his fake stink year it was like Holy Shit we can make this work and even even going back and watching this for the first first time you know because it was part of the cold open of the pay per view I what the hell probably it's like you did because again my mind was thinking where we the ad what's the story line I didn't I didn't immediately call back to where we were at fall brawl ninety six so when I saw that the cold open I'm thinking what in the hell were we do we wear and then after a few seconds and all kind of fell into place made sense but the if you put jeff farmer in Histon gear and sting interesting gear side-by-side side by side from ten feet away was you you'd be hard pressed to pick them out unless you knew them both really really well and with you know camera work and lighting and so forth we knew we could pull it off so if it were yes I knew about the undertaker and I knew about the Black Scorpion. I knew about all that stuff but to me they weren't there was no risk of falling into either of those categories. It's amazing to me too when you really think about it you know the WWF is going to get crapped on so hard for this whole fake razor fake diesel thing ah but then sort of teas that until Friday of that week but that Monday you're presenting your own fakes thing right away so you're beating them to the punch and you're doing much more effectively because nobody hated this. This was very very well done and we should mention that the wrestling observer reader poll only gave the the readers. I only gave this a forty five percent thumbs up for this fall brawl which really shocked me because I don't know maybe I'm just nostalgic about this show because it was my first show back doc but gets thirty five percent thumbs down. I totally disagree with the readers of the Observer on this one. I love this show. Just because of this particular storyline let's get into the show first match on the Card Diamond Dallas page chabot Guerrero Junior it feels like dominoes page opened every pay per view for about thirty two years with WCW thirteen thirteen minutes and then of course you know what's going to happen diamond cutter in just a few months he's going to have an opportunity to landed diamond cutter on the N. W. O. and he's a made man in January of ninety seven but we're still working to get there in September of Nineteen ninety-six meltzer locked though every three and a half stars and he says has that page was really impressive and carrying Guerrero who is still very green. Although we have potential they called shockingly good but maybe it went a few minutes too long long. What'd you think for the most part I think most batches go a little too long but I think this one did? I think you know as I was watching the match this morning. again watched pages entrance and again as you pointed out this is before the kind of remake he was hard for me to watch that entrance you know that old. DDP character Kinda gala nerves but once the bell rang you know the working the ring was really pretty. Good a little sloppy you know there was a couple of times throughout the match at things that are a little bit off I think part of that was still as good as DDP was at this point as much as he had vastly improved at this point people need to remember he was still pretty new at this. He may have been a little older older than most people but in terms of his time in the ring and trainy you know depending on who you talk to I would say he was still pretty green himself but he did it very very good job and I thought the same for travel I mean Chavez. Oh you know we we gotta look at you. Know one the reasons why China will not travel out to be a great performer. He did a lot of exciting things. He worked well with page. Some of his aerial stuff was a a little less less than Chris but there was a lot of it that was so I thought overall it was. I don't know if I thought highly of it is is Dave Meltzer it did but I thought it was a pretty solid batch yeah. I don't know that we're all the way there's parts of the show that feel like it's very much. WWe Evolution Aleutian like it's it's not peak. Ww but it's real close but you can still feel some things that are still hanging onto like ninety four ninety five maybe early ninety six six Diamond Dallas page here for instance doesn't have near the gimmicks that he did just a year prior year prior he was like smoking a cigar and had a toothpick in his mouth and issue and gum and sunglasses and rings on every finger and tape and self hyphen and banging and he just hey walking souvenir stand but here he's he's on his way the next match though that's a little out of place as ice train and Scott Norton Jordan they were attacking called Fire and ice for about that long and now they're breaking up and we're going to put these two behemoths and a submission match because when I think ah strain I think of a fucking submission match star and a quarter teddy long looks like he's been sucking on an air hose Estonia Shivani with I didn't even recognize him here. What did you think of the match and we offer refunds to anyone who purchased this all this time later because I feel like you owe me? At least I five dollars for having orange this one as such a bad thing to say a so mean meaning bitter two big guys we've talked before about a rustling buffet. Some people still love those larger than life. You know I don't WanNa say cartoonish but you know animated type characters characters in come on. This is the worst match on the show worry. No no no. I'M NOT GONNA. I'm not suggesting that wasn't wasn't the worst matching wasn't a great mash but some people like watching watching big powerful well. I mean I it's it's aspirational you you you live through characters. You know some people do and so people were wish you know you're sitting at home. One hundred twenty pounds rocks in your sockets Iraq said your pockets and oxen your sockets that sounds horrible but with rocks in your pockets your one hundred twenty pounder and you wish you two hundred eighty five pound guy with twenty four arms and that's what these two guys represented was was it a great match for people that love great matches absolutely not arguably it was may have been the worst match on the card for many people but for some people who like watching these big powerful larger than life character characters beat the hell out of each other. Perhaps they enjoyed it. Not Everybody that goes to the buffet likes anchovies but for those who do they do so. This is my anchovy batch. Let's move on. I love that you're trying to sell it and just hurry it along. The the wrestling observer readers agreed with me worse match on the show and you're maybe onto something with the buffet and maybe it's time we talk about the buffet. You're you're offering your dog. 'cause you're serving up some dog food here with this offering. Wonder why every dog food pretty the bag is or the brand or the price so sort of like dry smelly burnt brown pellet. Why don't we feed this stuff to our beloved pets for every meal of their life well L. now? We don't have to thanks to the farmers. The farmers dog makes it easy to feed your dog real fresh food actual food that you can see smell well if you really want to you can take the delivered it right to my house exactly when I needed it and I just retried into the fridge open and poor there's real real. USDA FRESH VEGGIES and I love my dogs Turkey recipe with carrots and spinach. There's no wondering what's in my dog's food because I can actually see the ingredients every time and the farmer's dog worked with top vets to make sure their food has a complete and balanced diet for your dog so you you know they're getting the nutrition they need to Brown. It's been pre portioned for them. You don't have to worry about over or under feeding and a fresh food diet is linked to a wealth of health benefits offense from a smooth coat and regulated wait to oil better poops and fresher breath which was definitely an issue in my house we had some stinky pinky breath and plans now are starting at just three bucks a day which is less than your morning coffee these days. I'm able to make it work for my family. And of course I've got four legged family members. I have peace of mind knowing that I've made a long term investment in my dogs hell this is something that you and I believe in a great deal right. I'm passionate about this and I I love all of our sponsors and we have to say we've got great sponsors but this swabs near and dear to my heart out those of you who follow me on twitter at Ebisu off no that my dog Nikki I should say our dog Nikki. My Mississippi and and myself is much part of our family as any other family member we love our dog and I spend as much time with my doctors. I possibly again and her health is really critically important to me and I spent the last four years doing a tremendous amount a matter of research on dog food because so often you know if you just go by commercial food in the store. You really don't know what's in it. There's a lot of filler. There's a lot of horrible stuff in most dog foods or many dog food. I should say and even the super high quality ones up until I I started getting my dog's food from farmers dog. I'm not gonNA name the name brand because it's a good quality brand and I was paying a lot of money. Ninety four is it was a dry dog food and I had done a lot of research. I talked to breeders Tucker vets and I really did my homework defined the very best food I could buy my dog it and even that dog food because it was a dry dog food in order for it to dry it has to be cooked and unfortunately when you cook dog food to to create a dry product the heat in the cooking process destroys or eliminates a lot of the nutrients that went into the formula align so you put together a great formula to create this really high quality very expensive dry dog food then you have to heat it up in the manual for manufacturing process in order they put it in the bag and sell it and at the final stages as you as you cook it to put it in the bag you're killing off almost all the nutrients or many of the nutrients at least so so on paper it looks like a great product in reality by the time it gets into your dog's bowl not so much so as far as you know signed auto become a sponsor they sent us for shipment and said here try it up. Make sure you like it and I did the research on farmer stock and their ingredients and was really really comfortable comfortable with it and obviously it's shipped fresh frozen but it gets your home frozen still completely one hundred percent filled with nutrients that it was packaged in and you you you know we thought out refrigerator and we feed to our dog fresh and our dog absolutely loves it now. We didn't have breath issue but I will tell you not to get super graphic. It's not what people are interested in but you know cleaning up after a dog is a lot easier without going into graphic detail. Hervey tabacum seems to be much more regulated and consistent and she's just a happier doc so I'm a firm believer in this product. I'm a firm believer in Oliver sponsor's products because you're you're not get the test them. We don't promote things that we don't like we don't believe in but this is one. That's real high up on my list. I have a friend who has tried the this the food and his dog had allergies and so he just thought that his dog had hours. He's got his all over in. You could see like this coloration on the skin Dan and within like six weeks of using this new food. It's completely gone. I'm not saying that's going to be the results for you. Just saying this is good stuff. It's really helping our dogs. You should check it out. If you have your dog you're GonNa love the farmer's dog because the farmer's dog a smarter healthier pet food and they make it as simple as possible to give your dog a better diet starts to trial today. Go to the farmer's dog dot com slash eighty three weeks and you'll get fifty percent off. Get Free Shipping. I can't believe that's real guys. The the farmers dot Gov dot com slash eighty three weeks fifty percent off your trial plus free shipping. Why wouldn't you do it? The farmer's dog dot com slash eighty eighty three weeks let's get to our next match and this was an interesting one. who've into Guerrero's here what am I guilty pleasures the WCW absolutely love his work. He's going to be challenging Conan for the Mexican heavyweight title now in reality if the AAA title but she has a referring to it as the Mexican heavyweight title I really liked this match Conan and and who've been too but I love these performers and there's one power bomb in here. This is devastating I it's it's a cool contrast of of Conan as a as more of a power move guy and and who've until you really showcase all of his incredible hotspots really really good stuff tough. I dug it. What'd you think I do too and I think the bump you're talking about if you're GonNa Watch? WWE Network I picked it up at about forty three minutes and seventeen seconds seconds ran through forty three minutes and thirty seconds let me take back that bump occurred about fifty minutes is is when it took place I loved it. I thought it was a great match. the only again as I said at the beginning of the show there's some things I wish I could go back and do over having Conan in the dungeon of doom and having Jimmy out there and his fluorescent Hulk Hogan Gimmick with a megaphone is about is out the places anything I can imagine in my life. I wish I could pull that back. I wouldn't have changed anything about the match I just wouldn't have Jimmy Hart out there dancing around like you know like he just jumped out of a clown car. That's the only thing that kind of rub your own. It was just nothing against Jimmy against what you know some of the great things that he's done in the past but again really really bad casting here didn't make any sense Conan into the dungeon of doom made absolutely no sense. They're gonNA do more all cartoon characters and if you look at Conan in the ways being presented here uses a street guy he's an og as he referred to himself. It's just you know just so bad but aside aside from that the match itself phenomenal I loved it. There's also a spot in here in this match. Where Conan who've you make great use of the two rings? I don't remember what the movie was but he's he's jumping. He does like a springboard from the outside to that rope then over to the other corner and then I mean so it's like from rope to rope to rope movies just moving around and it's funny because when I watched it this week I had I love this paper you so much I invited some friends from out of town to come. Watch it with me and we made a night of it and it was finding one of my buddies from art. Why did Conan just stand there and I said Fuck? Nobody could predict what hoover he was GONNA do. I didn't know he's bouncing around. You're just looking at him. Like what the fuck is he. Where's where's it going and then why am trouble drop hit great stuff? It was really fun to watch. It's just made me. I wish I would have appreciated it more in the moment. Sometimes you don't appreciate things until after for it happens in this case. I don't think I always enjoyed movie in his matches. maybe because you know the issues and the challenges that that came along with him personally kind of affected the way I looked at his performances but you know as I look back now you know twenty seven years later what a great masses was who he was a great performer a former I think this was an excellent match up to different contracts styles but both out of the Lucia you know genre. If you will or category category I loved it. I loved everything about it except for except for the dungeon of doom part really really good stuff out of your way to watch this one we should mention we're on a roll here. The first match with DP CHABOT got three and a half stars is training Scott Norton not as good star on a quarter but this one gets three and three quarter stars and the hits keep coming man. I can't believe this is real but Chris Jericho fresh off of his debut is about to make his. WCW Pay per view debut and he's taken on Crispin Wa the fourteen minutes and thirty six seconds unbelievably great match four stars early Jerko early been wa but man everything and I know this is people get weird about talking about Benoit matches but he had such snap on everything that he did everything just looked believable. Wall and impactful and full-bore man really really fun to watch. I dug this one. What did you think same I mean I just Lau Chris Jericho Fan? I've always loved his work. You know we've had our ups and downs over the years personally but that goes with the territory good friends with them now and all all that but you know I love going back in Washington early Chris Jericho. I love his car stuff. You guys reinvented himself you know over and over and over again every time he does. He seem up up his game to a new level a different character and I think that's amazing testament to who Chris Jericho is but I will go back having said all that in putting them overs over as much as I possibly can I'll go back and say to me this is this is Chris Jericho. This is Chris Jericho that as a character I fell in love with as a talent and I went holy Shit. This is the next evolution and went on to be the next evolution or one of but this match is so good and because of both guys you know because of Chris certainly because of Chris and because of Christians Christian wa I mean they were both his are ever been. Anyone sends crispin was awkward as it is to put him over and let's forget about for the moment not forget about. Let's set aside for for the purposes of this discussion. The horrific way his life in his fam- family's life ended set off to the side for a moment and analyze the work in the ring. has there been anybody nobody since Christmas wa that has been able to consistently deliver the kind of crispness in believability and ring work that been brought to the table now occasionally not every now and then every time every time with no matter who is wrestling no matter who it was you put them in there with all Koga you put them in there with Kevin Nash you put him in there with Ramos Zero you put him in there with tugboat. Whatever it's an example Zampa not an actual match you could put him in a in a match with anybody and he would deliver at least on his end up performance? It was so crisp in so believable achievable almost didn't matter who he was working with so amazing yeah if if you can watch been wall matches mouths word right this from our technical wrestling wrestling standpoint this was the best match on the card and as good a match as you'll see anywhere so really really high marks and continues again. I can't believe this streak continues Ramos mysterious looking to retain his cruiserweight title in fifteen minutes and forty seven seconds over Super Calo who believe debuted in like the prior thirty or forty eighty five days on Saturday night and he's got a title shot here and that's not a good match. It's another great match four stars and it does a little weird appeared that Super Calo is getting a title shot but I'm glad he did because the result is bad ass and I don't know that we spent a lot of time talking about Super Calo but he really really showed what he was capable of here and this young Nineteen ninety-six Ramos Aereo is still even now unlike anything anybody seen before just another level the finish and hurricane run into the pin combination outstanding really really good showing I douglas what say you dug it as well and one for the reasons I liked it as much as I did is it wasn't the Lucia it was the psychology and the ring action was more grounded. I think there was a lot of stuff in there. There were a lot of great high spots in there are a lot of great Ramos cereal moments in this match and calum moments but it was very well balanced with some great kind of crowded ring work as well and psychology oftentimes oftentimes when you get two great stars they would bring you know the most aerial aspects of their art form to their match and it's spectacular watch but sometimes the story and the psychology got kind of marginalized in the process this had great psychology and I felt a great balance balance between the kind of high flying aerial you know Louis style presentation along with just good grounded pound storytelling so I I loved it for for that reason. Go Out of your way to watch it and just really really good stuff a stereo in his promises hard to beat an unbelievably hits. Keep coming. We're on quite a streak. You're on the UNDERCARD card. The Harlem Heat retain the tag titles against the Nasty Boys and fifteen minutes thirty one seconds and I know what you're thinking okay gas Mistero Been Wa Jericho Co.. WHO'VE UNTUTORED CONAN AREN'T I'm getting that this is a good wrestling show but you're GONNA put over Harlem Heat and the Nasty Boys yes? We are even meltzer debt. He said after the previous two matches this figure to hold up but it was a surprise and he would even say a surprisingly good match ending when Sherry Kane over knobs head booker not pinned him. This is the Sheree of old. She's got a lot of heat going in this match. It's a good brawl and it is definitely a contrast you know you had had some flippant and flying in the last match. This is just ask kicking three and a half stars worth there is a fun moment on commentary though Remember Harlem he or the Champs and Bobby says something like it does no good for heat to try to win by count out. You can't win the titles on account out but they're already the champs three and a half stars. What did you think that was a great match? A Lotta great moving pieces in this Sherri Martel you know as I said you know in recent weeks I think is probably one of the more underrated performers are under appreciated performers over the last twenty or thirty years. She was a great character. She could do it. All she was great on the Mike she could get heat in the ring you she could. She could be sexy. She could be provocative. She could beat ass-kicker she she could do it. All she had a great range and I think that's one of the things that so often talent. You know doesn't pay enough attention to you know you you can you may be great at certain type of character you know for a year or two but you gotTa have range. If you're going to have longevity you've got to be able to do it all and you have to be able to tell different stories with your character or be able to be inserted into different types of stories because you have the ability to adapt to your situation nations and I think Sherry because he had so much rain and because she was so capable and so many different ways in this you know I I can't say this was Sherri Martel artillery peak because I didn't work with Sherri Martel. WWF and I'll be honest I didn't watch her a lot in WWF early WWF but I can't say in terms of our relationship relationship with Sherry this might have been sherry at her peak she was she was awesome and I think that's one of not the only one of the reasons this match was as well received as a was was because you had some great moving pieces you sherry with with all of the great things she just brought as we just described as she brought to the table yet. Harlem Heat was in there working asses off and they were in there with the nasty boys and everybody's got opinions about the nasty boys because they were all friends and you were kind of one dimensional themselves. They weren't able to have a whole a lot of different types of matches were technicians by any stretch of the magic nation but in a match like this there were two the toughest bastard you could ever put it in a ring. You know Brian Announce could take some abuse Jerry sags one tough. Sob and in a match like this. I don't think he could have cast it any better and again and was Sherry out there and the story that they were telling I I had like so many when I saw this oh I saw this all. We're going to have to cover over this batch. Oh my God it's going to be painful. Conrad's GonNa Make Fun of me. He's going to beat my ass put dispatch on the pay per view and then I watched it when Okay Brigham Big Man Yeah Uh really really good stuff man I we've talked about it before but the nasty boys have always been a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. I think the the bad rap when it comes to brawling ass ask kicking mass. They're about as good as it gets and I like a lot of other folks for further. He'll stuff over the baby face south but we do need to. I guess we should probably mention right now. Maybe haven't seen Brian knobs going through a tough time right now. It's like you need so full knee replacement and he set up a gofundme man. They're more than halfway there but every little bit helps so if if you're a fan of the nasty boys back in the day check it out on go fund me and Brock could easily hot tag action right now our main event is coming up but first we've got at the giant and Randy savage and we mentioned a little while earlier that the giant was on the WCW things of course he just dropped the world title to Hulk Hogan a month month prior Hog wild but joined the bureau by turning his back on Randy savage. They'RE GONNA go seven minutes and forty seven seconds. the giant gets the win here. The military would say the match had a lot of heat was well put together but the finish was lame. Savage has body slammed the giant gives them the off the top and if this whole Okocha comes out chases savage chases him to the back then he's ambushed by cheer shots and Nash and Hogan or GonNa throw him into the ring paint him rough course magically referee Nick Patrick misses all of this arguing with the giant he gives it a star and a half but I understand the method didn't like the finish finish because it wasn't a traditional match but it is heavy on story. It's heavy on heat. It's probably exactly what you were looking for at the time well because we were going with randy savage and Hulk Hogan at Halloween Halloween having too much so it was a story based match it wasn't designed to to provide fulfilling finish in conclusion as most most matches on a pay per view should do this this was I guess I want to call it a transitional kind of story match. It was what it was in watching it. You know this kind of the Finnish did I don't mind technically if you if I were to read the finish on a format it might might not bother me too much probably would today just because it's so overdone but even at that time if other read that finish finish on pay per hour to an okay I wanNA take a note of it but I probably would have let it slide but in the execution of it you know the way halt how was walking back whereas kept looking back over his shoulder. I mean it. I if you're GONNA go with that finish. I think it could have been executed in a much much better way so you could have gotten to the same point but executed it away. That would have been less obvious less of a letdown so that it may have gotten a better response from the audience good stuff man I it's hard for me to watch a randy the savage match and not take notice of his hair though and of course I think about here in wrestling I think about you because have you recently reminded us not only do you have perfect hair but you're too perfect to be real right well. I don't like to put myself over too much. You know occasionally I will when I feel like I deserve it and Anka's because no one else will but my wife and my dog but I do a perfect here I mean it's not even something that anybody can argue about even Charles Robinson you know w w referee who who has probably the second best head of hair out agrees sports entertainment even Charles Robinson Evanson bows down you know to my hair so it is true has nothing to do with me. I don't work at it was his born this way genetics my mom and dad didn't I had nothing to do with it but I'm the beneficiary of it yes. I do have perfect air. I I know what you're excited about now alice to share perfect your hair is when it comes to your daycare. God well listen. Listen grass is so crass was not a sacred that you're using the new lawn more two point no because you don't want to snag your nuts and you know you won't because of their proprietary skin and safe technology and now you're not sure smooth as a baby's bottom manscaping accidents or finally a thing of the past and really it's probably time that he's a little logic here. You shouldn't use the same trimmer on your face that using on your ball sack that's just nasty. Manscaping also has the crop preserver and and Eric. You're telling me off air how much you love the brand new anti chafing ball the odor and moisturizer here already put on your armpits. 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I'm not going to get into the graphic details. mysexy mcclair Dick will say I will say that as more enlightened man in two thousand nineteen I think hygiene sure is critically important. I think maintain your look in and out of the bedroom is critically important and I think a product like manscaping is just absolutely perfect product for today's. We'll just let it go at that. You don't need you don't need to get into the graphic details by God is nothing sacred sacred anymore. No it's not here's the clearly Huntington now. Are you like since you've got the tools now. Did you like fashion the the end of your logo because you always spray painted on deeds backs and to me you could like really put on a real presentation you know for like with the uh-huh in W. O. in the Dick he didn't do that yet now. That's not my thing but can you imagine had this product available. Marcus Bagwell was in the end. wwl Yeah well or how about Macho Man. That's the story for a live show. That's that's that's another story for a live show but absolutely man I could say this with all due respect to the macho such a man. May he rest in peace rather. Don't bid for be saying yes. He would've loved this product well. Of course he would not support for eighty three weeks of course council manscaping. They're number one in men's below the belt grooming manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels get twenty percent off and free free shipping with Promo Code Eighty three weeks manscaping dot com tech carrier Dick hair so all right. Let's get to the main event pretty excited about this on the way here here. We go to backstage interview with Mike Today. Rick is so fired up that he's calling Mike Tonight. Gene Gene Not even with the company but four uh-huh. I Love Green Peacock Robe of course we got woman in the background and we got Miss Elizabeth in the background. We've got our Anderson they got lex Luger and they see someone approach them and their backstage interview area and you hear the voice and then you see the back of sting and he's saying saying something like You're just GONNA have to see I'll show you I'll prove to you and of course we're set up for the war games super heat here eighteen eighteen minutes fifteen seconds Scott Hall's GonNa Start Against Arn Anderson pretty run of the mill. The interview wins the coin flip by the way have the baby faces ever won the coin flip ever in war games that you know Oh hell no dammit I think the heels easing double-sided coins bullshit bullshit either way. This is going to be a fun match on one side of course we know Hulk Hogan Kevin Nash Scott Hall on the other side. It's very clear lex Luger Arn Anderson and Ric flair and then when we're down to the nitty gritty outcomes quote unquote sting and of course he starts immediately attacking the goodguys lex Luger Arn Anderson Require Heroes here in North Carolina and stings have nothing to do with attacking them all and he's he's got the jacket on and the whole deal eventually the real staying Steve borden comes out and now everybody is like wait a minute what's going on and it. It's very quickly revealed. That staying has not turned his back. This is a double cross. The interview has had someone get plastic plastic surgery to look like staying and stolen his gear had identical gear made it was not him all along. He's been wrongly accused well once he he comes in and clears house on everybody he looks to his quote Unquote Best Friend Lex Luger tells them to stick it and walks out and this is going to be the birth breath of crow staying at this point. It's weird how it all sort of just melts together. Someone someone makes the approach and says hey you know if this guy dressed like sting. We can really do something cool here. See You have this Guy Cobra on the squad anyway away and now you're going to dress him up do this angle and then it just sorta evolves into crow sting but if one idea doesn't happen maybe we never get grossing thing right. That's true but there was a lot more thought given to this once we knew we were going with the fake sting the the NWF sting we knew we wanted that crow character what I'm what I'm going to say it. A long way is that there was some pre planning on this and a little bit of long turn planning. We knew we were going with the story once. We embraced the idea of the W. O. Sting we knew that we wanted to have staying the real saying during be that loan. I hate to use this term because it's been so reused for so many decades but that one lone wolf you know he was there for his friends. He tried to approve it wasn't him that attacked Lex Luger the previous week you know lex Luger didn't believe him. He went in there. He did the right thing but at this point he he had just lost all faith in humanity because of what has happened to the N. wwl friends turning on friends kind of a situation and that's when you know sing was going to send ended up into the rafters at kind of looming over trying to find the right time to bring it all back together getting fix it. That was the premise of that story but it was it wasn't a spontaneous is is and I don't think he meant to make it sound spontaneous but it wasn't a spontaneous as anybody might think it was so much of the stuff we did was this wasn't this was something that was planned out out and we'd agreed earlier before this match and before the scene before the NWEA thing we knew that we had something viable and we're gonNA use it to kind of chemical sting into the rafters or to the next level so to speak and we wouldn't have if somebody whoever it was and would hopefully next week we'll have farmer on the show or or at least we'll get his direct quote as to how this idea the original iteration you know how it was developed presented. If it were not for that we would not have crow sting we had some other version of it but it wouldn't have been the thing that we saw lurking in the shadows for almost a year or over here. It's just so cool to see it all really fall into the place in the end to look back and say you know if this little thing here doesn't happen none of that happens and the little twists and turns as this the story evolves are just fascinating to me. This was such a great match to me just because of the story obviously the in ring action that you're able to do with all these guys I sort of running around almost feel all the war games matches you know to me were probably more hype than execution while there may have been some good blood it does it it does if that's what you're into it does feel like a bit of a battle royal where there's just so much going on. It's really hard to shoot and then the and the element of the cage and you know somebody's got to quit. Antonioni never really liked that because he thinks that fans are more conditioned for the big pop on a three count and this maybe some flaws with it but the the idea about the match beyond the most brutal match and the hype in anticipation behind it was always next level and now with this other wrinkle of the in W. O. and interesting with them or not really a great story. the action got a star and three quarters. I think that's probably a little low just based on the story. What did you think again? I'm I'm with you on that. I think look it was not from a technical point of view is that Chris Benoit Chris Jericho level match absolutely not was designed to be absolutely -lutely not if you've had you know nine or ten or eleven matches on the card that would have all look like all would have been to the same level of Saint Presentation Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit people were getting bored stiff with it and lets you were like the the the one percent of the top one percent of the audience that loves that kind of stuff this was a different kind of match. It was a story match. This was advancing the N. W. O. versus. WCW which was the reason why we were drawing as much money money as we were drawing. I it was the reason why the ratings were what they were all of the other things underneath it were very important and helped contribute and gave us a sense of of a variety of different kinds of styles and presentations and characters that we can all relate to in our own way going back to the wrestling buffet you know ideology but at the same time in terms of what was moving the needle what was driving revenue what was creating the opportunities to bring in a lot of the Lucci talents and a lot of the cruiserweights user weights and do all the other things we're doing was this story and this story did a great job of advancing what we needed to advance to your point destroy Oy launched a twelve month story with sting which by the way we're still talking about twenty some odd years later and by the way you can still buy that sting merchandise crow Esq merchandise indies you know to this day or the wwe shop by the way you can still see sting in his crow character at conventions around on the world so the fact that you know was it a four Star match hell no was it designed to be hell no was at one of the most important pivot points so I think in. WCW's history that has resonated to this day in two thousand nine hundred hell yeah great stuff the next day on Nitro. He comes out and cuts. The Promo should mentioned that Sean Waldman's at ringside when he's interviewed he acts like he has no no clue really what's going on later in the show. Though it's revealed he has a new name six. stink comes out to do the Promo he says. I think thank you does it with his back to the hard camera. I want a chance to explain something that happened last Monday night nitro last Monday I was on an airplane flying from Illinois Atlanta when I got to Atlanta a tuned in to the TV Nitro and I thought it was watching a rerun and often imitated but never duplicate it. So what else do I see. I see people I see wrestlers and see commentators. See My best friend's doubting Stinger. Try the doubted the singer the Stinger so hard lex Luger saying I know where he lives. I know where he works out. I'm going to go and get him so I said to myself. I'll go into this conclusion. I'll wait and see what happens on Saturday night and tune in Saturday night and what did I see. I I see more of the same more doubt which brings me to fall brawl. I knew I had to get to fall brawling face to face with total package to let him know it wasn't me and when I get out of that was no staying. I don't believe you staying well. I gotTa say is I've been a mediator. I've been a babysitter for lex Luger. I've given the benefit of the data thousand times in the last twelve months and carry the WCW banner. I'm giving my blood sweat and my tears. WCW So for all those fans out there and those wrestlers people that never doubted the Stinger. I'll stand by you if you stand stand by me but for all the people all the commentators and wrestlers all the best friends who did doubt me you can stick it from now on. I consider myself a free agent. That doesn't mean that you won't see in the Stinger from time to time. I'm GonNa pop in when you least expect it of course the next week he's out in all black and white face paint and the crows roasting is born and this show is really the birth of at Fall Brawl Nineteen Ninety six. I found it fascinating that you know the reader. Poll in The Observer didn't really love the show. I thought this was a really really solid undercard as we know not a huge fan of the ice train Scott Norton masks but the rest of the stuff really really good and the story in the main event that was outstanding. If you had to sort of give this pay per view writing one to ten. What would you give this one eight I? I can't argue that man. I like it. I think it's good to again. We have the benefit of the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight you know in the moment you know if you go back to Nineteen ninety-six when whoever you know in search dirt sheet writer here whoever was writing reading about this pay per view and rating editor or putting it overbearing it or whatever none of us not them not me not you it could have known how successful that sting story would become over the course of the next year plus right so we look at it now you and I in in retrospect as this huge important pivot point as I said you could still buy this picture dice you know from. WWe You can still go see sting. You have to pay a lot of money to do what if you want to get a picture an autograph but you can still go meet and greet staying in his crow character what I don't even know how many years later does not twenty some odd years later so clearly it was a story in a moment that has resonated throughout this industry for decades. Nobody's but he's GonNa take that away from anybody. However in the moment we didn't know that you know it's it's easy to go back for you and I look at the show now knowing knowing what we know twenty years later and say wow this is really a great show because it it achieves so many things but unless you had a crystal ball you didn't know how important this show was until years later so I get why you know some people may not have liked it in rated as highly as possibly your I I think they should have but from a storytelling point of view from an overall balance of great wrestling action great characters great story I think it was one of the better efforts efforts under my tenure at? WCW certainly could have improved a lot of things I think what are the other things that I wish I could get a do over on. Was that backstage interview view sin came into plead his case and try to tell Lexi it wasn't him if I could only do that scene over again today I would. I would love to do this scene feet over against it because I think it would have not made it. It would have made it much more interesting and much more dramatic had that backstage set it up. Properly sing just walked in. We saw the back of his head on his back which I know why we did that. We did that because we didn't want. We don't want people to kind of discern between the facing facing the real thing any more than necessary so there's a reason for it but it's still look awkward at best but less Luger was if I was GonNa do that over again today I would have had stink probably come in I would have had them come in with a little more passion it and pleading his case I would have also had those four guys. Would I'm whatever I would have had you know lax in Rick in a tear into him in the beginning at create kind of a pull apart I would have had that dialogue between LEX sting take place while they were each being restrained rained brought more emotion to that that's my point there. Just wasn't nearly the amount of emotion in that scene as there should have been given the circumstances in the story and I had it been physical and almost got to the point where the three of them were pounding the hell out of sting because they just were firmly firmly convinced that he attacked lex Luger the week before I think stinks showing up the real sting in doing what he did would have had a more interesting impact on the audience audience but more importantly than that I think his final farewell as the original sting and now you know ascending to become this crow character what have had even more meaning an and would have made the store even more interesting because it would have been more of a reason for it you know they not only doubted him but they beat the shit out of them in the process and I think that that could have just made the story stick even harder well. We hope you'll stick with US hard next week. Maybe that means which you'll be back. We'll have to wait and see but we do have a fun show coming up next week. We are really really good feedback. I don't know what you saw but I had you watch an episode Monday night raw a couple of months ago and we've got such strong feedback from you watching. WWF show really for the first time and giving your sort of fresh perspective and how excited you were at the end of that show when the cane mask comes off and is revealed that in fact was the undertaker that I've decided I listed that again next week and we're going to do it with a very historic raw from nineteen ninety seven just about a week after this pay-per-view here at fall brawl of course we're aw GONNA swing for the fences when they go to Madison Square Garden where you guys just were here in two thousand nineteen and here we're GONNA see Stone Cold Steve Austin Stun Vince McMahon and we'll see the debut of Cactus Jack The character that Mick Foley portrayed in WCW healed debut here at Madison Square Garden so tune in next week when we watch the September twenty second nineteen ninety-seven Monday night raw and then finish up the month of September with something that I know that you I don't know are are you reading or looking forward to talking about TNA. I feel like it's something you almost block out. Sometimes Oh oh it depends on the day you know. One of the challenges I'm going to have with that. Show is that there was some good things that happen. You know there I mean I and we'll save it for next week. But there's some memories I have that are quite fond and very personal to me that that I'm grateful for you know then there are moments probably more than I care to enumerate on

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