Bonus Interview: Changing How We Farm
Today's episode is brought to you by splendid table this thanksgiving. Make sure that the splendid table podcast and radio show is your kitchen companion throughout November Francis lamb and the splendid table team will be covering all the bases from life-changing gravy techniques to drinking more and better. Champagne, we always approve of that to a soul food thanksgiving celebration with chef Carla hall and on Thanksgiving Day. Don't miss their annual Turkey, confidential. It's alive Colin show for a full two hours Francis. And it's liberty guests Dorie Greenspan summing Nosrat and Patty hitch will answer whatever questions you may have on the busiest cooking day of the year. You can listen and call in from splendid table dot org or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello and welcome to savor. I'm and I'm Laurin vocal bomb. And we've got another bonus episode for you today on another another one just when you thought you were rid of them. Bonus episodes of saver will want your podcast queue forever. That was her are evil plan. We're going to present you with more content. I think that is a thing entertainment overload. It's a thing. Anyway, this is a positive thing. It's a wonderful interviewee. Did I out in the woods? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We were interviewing Jamie, acre of hickory nut gap farms, which he's a he's a fourth generation farmer, and he invited us out to his farm and our podcast studio for the day was like in a Glenn of the woods with a babbling brook next to us. We were sitting on rocks. It was so it was so if you hear a lot of those nature noises in the spun it's because it's because we were having a beautiful time. Yeah. We didn't. We didn't ask you for producer till into those in really happened. We have pictures to prove it. But yeah, this was another great interview that we were fortunate enough to get and we thought that we would share it with you. So here we go. How did how did the farm start start out four generations? Well, my great grandparents moved here in nineteen sixteen. Then they migrate. Grandfather was a minister he was a Presbyterian minister from the northern suburbs of Chicago. And he fell in love with a banker's daughter. My great grandmother was Elizabeth Skinner, Kramer McClure, and she the came through western Carolina on their honeymoon. And they found this farm, and it was owned at that time by eighty year old man and his twenty two year old wife, and the story is that Nygard grandfather went upstairs to kind of make a deal on the farm, right? But the real deal happened on the porch where my great grandmother whose father had the money to buy the farm and the twenty two year old wife discussed the fact that the twenty two year old wife need. To get back to towns. He was really tired of being so far out here in the middle of nowhere. So my mother said I think we need to do this. And so no now, I've got twenty some cousins around here. And and we're pretty rooted in this little piece of land. It is beautiful. What particular part of the property? Are we sitting on right now? So right now, we're sitting on when I was a little boy we had a dairy farm here. We milked about forty some cows. And we my wife, Amy, and I graduated from college in two thousand from Warren Wilson college, and we got interested in the whole idea of local food and direct marketing, and and sort of raising animals in a way that was good for the environment. That was a more humane for the animals and doing all those types of things. But in addition to that. Deform here, we realized was pretty close to ashville. And so we could also do some agritourism out here. And so when I was a little boy, this was all sort of concrete we had dairy cows in here, and it was year everywhere. And all that and overtime. We kind of took a lot of that concrete out and planted grass and just kind of made it more as statically appealing. And so this stays here is just a nice little tucked away area. Can sit by the creek, and relax and. Yeah, this I do have to say this is one of the loveliest places we've ever podcast from where are usually in a room about the size of this rock. Mary. Nice real nothing. Nothing against our studios. Back home. But oh, heck. So so you say that you you got interested in this in like after you graduated from college did. Before that point. Did you think that you weren't gonna come back into the family business? So when I was little, of course, the farm was hard work and you got all sweaty. And it wasn't necessarily something that you really wanted to do all the time. But then when I was in high school, you start to be able to physically be able to do stuff, and it feels good, and there's something about the human experience when you're a teenager where you want to sort of use your muscles and use your body and just be physical. And and so I liked it. I liked working in high school a lot. But my parents never really maybe my parents would disagree with that. Just want to put that. But, but I was never really encouraged to like try to make a living with the farm that was never really making us any money or anything like that. So so whenever I went to Warren Wilson, I kinda got introduced all these ideas of how you can, you know, ro- animals in a more sustainable manner that than, you know, the costs with growing, you know, farmers for the past one hundred years I've been incentivized on economic level with one thing, and that's just a low cost because there's no way to control the price because everything was commodity driven. And so so the fact that we were sort of trying to do things and environmentally friendly. Way was exciting to us sort of his young idealistic people straight out of college trying to save the world, and we can do this. You know? And so that concept to me was really exciting. And so and it's funny because now forty we have three boys and they're fourteen and eleven eight, and I'm still fired up and idealistic and feel like maybe a little bit more, you know realistic now. But yeah, that's basically that that experience of of feeling like you can make something happen and make change. And and and be on the land in pay attention to to the grasses. You know, it's amazing to be able to see a cycle over and over and over again, something like a farm because farm is a, you know, the seasons and the weather matter and so every day there's an awareness to. How the weather impacts the land. And so, and that's and that's like one statement that that is very complicated. And so, you know, one example of that is always fun whenever we see like that. I really hot day of the year, maybe like towards the end of may or early June, and we hit ninety some degrees and all the little crabgrass. And all the warm season. Grasses you start to see come up or the wind berries, grow in the woods, become right? But it's sort of like, okay. That's what happened the morning that Amy we had Cyrus are fourteen year old son. I mean, I picked wind berries. And so you have all these sort of connections to to the civil land over time that kind of multiplies, and it's it's really amazing to see. And then you. After a big rainstorm. It's like, wow. This. This whole thing is just crazy right now. Yeah. Yeah. You feel it becomes a party. What about this land produces good product in the end. But but good healthy animals. Let me one. So the farm here are our general philosophy is to promote biodiversity on the landscape. And and so, you know, in in nature, you want sort of a mixture of pasture land and woods and creeks and healthy water. And so in order to have that diversity you need to have you know, animals that compliment that. And so I was feel like cattle in grasses the impact they have with the soil. Are are really amazing because you're taking a grassland ecosystem, basically. And if you go out and do one of our pastures, you'll find ten different species out there yesterday with a group, and you know, we've got Timothy right now, you've got some crabgrass. Ragweed red clover, white clover fescue, all Brome grass all these different types of grasses. And and you know, basically with cattle and. Raising management you're turning those grasses into high quality beef. And if you can take those grasses and we'd practice what's called a rotational grazing, which means you rotate, the cattle on a frequent basis, and so the grass gets to grow up big thick and deep, and then you graze it off, and you leave a lot of poop and pee behind. And then you move the cattle on and it, and it sort of mimics the way that nature has always been grazed like the bison on the planes because you have this prey animal like a cow or vice in her deer that travel in herds, and so those animals in nature travel come to an area grays at off and then they move on. And so we we can manage that with electric fence on the farm, and and when you do that you you end up with a grazing management system that actually build soil. And so it's it's sort of beyond the whole concept of sustainable, and it becomes a much more concept of regenerative because you're taking the soil when you when you graze this way, you're you're stopping down a lot of the grass right because it's big and tall and the cows recouping on it. And so that soil surface decay in manure and all that actually build soil organic matter, and so the the plants utilized carbon out of the atmosphere when they grow because that's the plant human relationship, and then and that's just to photosynthesis. And then whenever you graze off a lot of that litter comes back, you're building soil organic matters. We'll organic matter is basically carbon so you're putting carbon back into the soil here regenerating healthy soil through that grazing process. And not, you know, I feel like a lot of the environmental. Language deals with sort of mitigating our environmental impact, you know, lessening damage so to speak. Whereas it's exciting to me when we look at these systems that we can actually build soil, and that concept is like, wow. That's that's a really cool about human nature dynamic. It's exciting. So so if you were starting about twenty years ago, you you got in kind of on the on the ground floor of Asheville sort of Morphing into what it is today from it. It had been so economically depressed for a long time. And yeah, you guys kind of came up alongside the the beer scene, and and the and the restaurant scene downtown how. How has? The business and the area changed since you've been working pretty remarkable over the last, you know, since my great grandfather came here in nineteen sixteen western North Carolina was basically sort of just post civil war poverty. Appalachia you know, that sort of negative stereotype that the Snuffy Smith cartoon sort of a pit of my sins. Oh, you know. It's it's it's neat to see the blossoming of an incredible food scene. And and for us. It's been really amazing to get to be a part of that. Because it's something much bigger than what we are out here at this specific farm, but the whole the whole appreciation of quality the appreciation of care, you know, the human relationships that that get developed through that process. You know, there's chefs in town now that one example is the chef Zomba's, and they have copper crown to and they're good friends of ours and their children and our children all go to school together. And I remembered making delivery there maybe fourteen years ago it was like a big fifty pound case short ribs. I'd had them as freezer guys this like, yeah, I'll take it. And chefs love short ribs. And nobody's no cutting people don't know what the. Do with short ribs. But chefs not to make them really good. And so they had just had a baby. And and I had just had a baby of here before our oldest is Cyrus. And so. You know now now this past year, I got to coach their son is in seventh grade now and basketball. So it's kinda like I get to like, you know, we we sort of seeing each other all mold and change in grows human beings in the process and not just as like business relationship, chef farmer kind of things, but it's we're we're sort of, you know, community basically and the community part of of, you know, looking after each other's kids in and caring about how each other's businesses are doing because they matter to to us for economic purposes. But then there's also the emotional friends and connections that really make a living. We have even more of our interview with Jamie. But first we're going to pause for a quick break for word from our sponsor. Over three hundred twenty five years ago. The community of Salem, Massachusetts was rocked by something that few ever thought possible. It's been called an outbreak a wave of hysteria or the perfect storm at the confluence of seemingly unrelated ideas events, and beliefs, whatever, we try to call it, though, we always seem to miss the Mark what bothers me so much so many people say how ignorant people were back that that's historian. Emerson Baker professor of American history at Salem state university. How could they possibly believe in witches? And that they were well I remember in sixteen ninety two which is were real everybody believed in university ministers. Doctors of theology governors pope's, which is our real the Salem witch trials are equal parts universally known and barely understood by most people. That's why this series exists. New episodes of this twelve part series. Air every Wednesday. Learn more and find links to subscribe over at history on obscured dot com. And we're back. Thank you sponsor and back to the interview. How how do you guys collaborate with other entities community? You know, what we we have a we sell to about forty different accounts all over ashville. And so that's a lot of weekly collaboration and partnership, and you know, really tell the story about the history and about our philosophy because what we've realized in this was sort of interesting thing to realize is that you know, when we first started we were thinking about grasp it beef and how we can do a good job raising. These cattle in and focusing on better systems for Cal in halls and raising hogs outside and developing those systems, but what we what what's what's exciting to me is that we can not only, you know, have neat little story here the farm, but also because we've done the hard work of marketing. In branding and sales, which drives business that we've been able to really think about how do we change agriculture and the in the way people think about food and are much more comprehensive manner. And not just the fact that you know, it's it's from this. You know, there's this unique production model that really think about how do we how do we change farming? And how do we how do we rethink how farmers produced? So we actually now have a producer group of farmers that we have a wholesale side of the business that we work with a bunch of other farmers. And so now, they don't wanna be out marketing and selling and all that stuff they wanted just produce. And so now, we feel like we can go to these guys and say, hey and girls, we say, hey, guys. This is this is a good opportunity. This is workable, we have a market. Here's the program. And and it allows folks to. To stay on the farm, which is a big deal and be developed a different model for for their farms that they don't have to just stay on this commodity gain. And so that's always a a win for for everybody. And so. To me. It's exciting to sort of consider how we are production paradigm because like feedlots and all the big agriculture stuck came about just because of the business opportunity that was there and somebody started figuring it out. And and so now people, you know, there's a whole nother generation of people asking questions about how does this get done? Who's the how do we how do we sort of understand the impact of our eating when I eat a steak or some hamburger or something? What what does that look like all the way through back to the farm back to the environment? And and so, and that's those are not questions that people have historically pushed on and so now it's like, well, let's let's get that all that consideration. Which is a big thing because the meat and culture are big industries. So oh, sure. Yeah. It's you know, it's this is the second time. I've said this today sorry podcast listeners. But yeah, it's checkers once said like we've we've got to eat and. That's right. And yet, it's it. It's gigantic. And it's it's like I was sorry. No, no, no, no. I was thinking about one time. Oh, the whole marketing and sales dynamic and a member one time I was trying to sell Abon in rack like a pork chop Iraq with ten bones in it, and I was selling chef in town, and we're trying to get cut right? And our butcher was kind of a small butcher. And he didn't quite know how to cut it just ride aid. And and this is there's a million challenges in the whole local meat seeing. This is just an example of one. But I remember I had done deliveries that day and dropped it off. And it was frozen when you got it. So you couldn't really look at it. You know? So he thought it, and then I came back to the farm, and I out with the pigs way out there doing something, you know, fixing the fence or checking them out, and then he calls. He's a pass not quite wri. Can you? Can you bring van and he brought up now not sure ran Eyal. Yeah. Let me go look in the freezer, and so that I can find so I'm like back in the freezer like manure on my moods. Trying to find some frozen, pork. And I'm like five title, this cool, and until it's not doable. So, you know, there is some supply chain segregation that might be appropriate. That that was a good example for me on what I what I was the entrepreneur side of of table meeting, a roadblock. It's it's cool to hear you talk about other other farmers in the community, and what they're doing, you know, the idea of lifting everybody of it one of the common threads everyone that we've talked to in town has has talked about how it's it's more spirit of collaboration than competition. Right. What? Could could you talk a little bit about some of the specific breeds that you guys. For for hogs. We use mostly Berkshire dear we have a red wattle bore at the farm here right now. So some of them were heirloom tight breeds that are a little bit more marveling a little bit more fat. That's always yummy. And so that's that's certainly the breeds using Hong side for for cattle. Well, we've found for grass finishing cattle is that you know, when in a feed lot, there's a lot of corn, and soybeans, and whatever sort of cheap by products are available and that puts a lot of weight on these animals quit when you're in a grazing paradigm. You're not going to get that consistent kind of weight games ever. And so we we look for animals that you don't have to take the fourteen fifteen hundred pounds to get fat. We want a smaller frame the animal, and so we use a lot of like Angus genetics of smaller frame thing is there's a lot of different breeds within that that we use. But smaller framed animals that will and primarily what it ends up being the English breeds work. The best like Angus Hereford Devon those type breeds. Because it seems like there's the continental breeds which is more like the French name limousine sharla and all those breeds. We have a harder time finishing adequately in aggress based system. And so so those are the breeds we mostly used. How much is scientific and technological developments changed what you do since. He started. I think that there's there's more transparency there's and I'd say like, you know, social media in these types of things are the real. People asking questions, there's there's a lot more of AOL ability for information. And so and then people are really clueless about stuff. And so we should probably do this podcast. And so I feel like, you know, what's like the technology. You know farm is electric fencing. That's really like it's not super new. But it certainly is a technology that we use all the time every day because it's very portable and it easy to change. And so when you're in the farming systems that we use that's an important feature. Because you're kinda like, oh, it's this grass got away from us. There's a ton of grass in here, we can cut this paddock and half. And not have everything so bins. He just wants drain electric takes ten minutes to put up get hot. Bam. You're good to go. So that would be really good technology. Square for a little farm store is great. That's a pretty mainstream, ipads and stuff like that. But then there's also technology that I see coming like blockchain and stuff like that. That's going to help us. You know, take a animal one animal, and whenever it's somebody's eating it on a plate. It'll be some app that'll easily that animal to the farm. You know, what I mean, which I think is going to only continue to build this line of of communication of partnership that that we really wanna promote. So I think I see that as like something that we want to embrace. But it's also how much does it constant? And every all these all these techies are trying to figure out what there's like three or four different companies trying to figure that out. And then you don't wanna like. Be their protocol necessarily. I mean. Yeah. Always going to be that. But it's also like the you have it, right? Or do you have it right because I don't know any of this -nology stuffing now, usually like guys or girls that don't have any real experience on a farm. So it's like, you know, we can just stick it on this thing. And then you gotta go to the creek. And it's not gonna you know, not work, then the farmers alike. That's that's always a good balance. What kind of what can I I know this is a large answer. But, but what kind of products, do you guys create, and and how has that changed over the course here, so we create, you know, a on a live animal basis, we raise or live livestock or farm production here at the farm. We have cattle if pigs we have some pasteurize chickens, and so we we have a portable house and move those chickens every day, I'm gonna let me process them on the farm here and sell them through our farm store and two local restaurants and stuff like that. And then we have. Blueberries that we do when we also have some apples. And so when people come out here, you know, our mission here is to sort of connect people do the family farm experience and give them a place to come to learn about agriculture is that's kind of who we are. And what we're about is is is a place to kind of come, touch and feel it and not just kind of reading the book because that's different. And so. But that's the physical items that we pretty so importantly when you kill a cow process. Cow harvest account, whatever you want to say kill Spahn you end up with one animal equals fifty different items. You have rib is by vets they ground, sir. Long lane ground beef. Blooms mixed bone backbones, the head cheek all these different pieces and parts. And so you've gotta figure out how to market and sell those parts evenly. And so it's one of the big challenges of the sort of local pasture based industry is we end up with a lot of sales on your rib is and your New York strips, but you end up with lung ground beef or chalk or boosts net pieces are round or whatever. And you can't you know from a cash flow standpoint. You know, this animal, you know, you have a lot of cost in the NFL. And so your margin on selling all that stuff isn't great. And so you're forced to make sure you sell evenly because you have a customer that consistently. Want stakes just killing an animal for the stakes. We kept we we also their stuff piles up, and you're gonna lose money. And so you got gotta find sort of an even market for all that stuff. So making sure that you pay attention to that. And so some items that help with that are, you know, like meat sticks and stuff like that. Which also happened to be very popular with people when they drink a lot of beer, and they are at a brewer there's a meat stick where it's nice and salty, and it costs you two bucks. It's like, yeah. I mean that thing so it's a good good partnership for that. The local folks in Asheville, we've got a little bit more of this interview left. But first we've got one more quick break for word from our sponsor. Humanity has spent a long time distancing ourselves from the animal kingdom, we wear clothes over our nakedness use the stock market and go to the bathroom and specially designated areas. But if you take a closer look at the animal kingdom, you'll find blood bands and treachery that make game of thrones seemed like a dumb show for babies, I'm Katie golden. I studied psychology and biology at Harvard, and I pretend to be a bird on Twitter, and my new podcast creature feature brings you tales of love murder, sex, betrayal and deception in the lives of both animals and humans. 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I mean, we we've we've talked about how you know. They're being more information and people ask you questions are just like the the cuts of meat or the or the types of. Types of stuff that that chefs that consumers are asking points. Not changed. Yeah. I mean, I think people nowadays like no of it, flat irons. There's more vernacular common knowledge about those cuts, and then it's funny because some chefs, you know, one of feature a local item, and so they'll they wanna do like appetizer like pig years or something like that. Which is great. But it's also like, wait. You can't just let figures like we also have other too. Sort of this whole movement towards using the whole animal, which is great. But it's like all of a sudden piggy years become the most valuable piece on the animal, and you're like, this is we we still have to move the whole pork chop and everything else too. So that was a funny moment. That kind of just all he wants us figures. Like, okay. What do you do about that? So I think people are more acceptable. Like nowadays, you can go to restaurant and order pig years. Right. I mean, that's something that happens legitimately eight. Yeah. The love it. It's fun. And it's a sighting and its inventor sums up feel like people are, you know, more stepping out of their box and looking for that creative artistic experience of that chef provides an Ashley Scott, those people, and I feel the kind of town that. You know, it's becoming more like you can just get a job. But people that wanted to live here you just had to figure out how to make it work for yourself. That'd be an entrepreneur you had to, you know, get through the money making a living is important when kids and and so the ultra preneurs seen here and the service based economy that we have all the tourists, certainly lends itself towards people that live here are artistic types. And so a lot of chefs for like, those great let's start a restaurant, and it's just kind of blossomed into an artisanal place to do business. Do you have a favorite part of the job? I guess it's changed like, yeah. You know, you're you're always changing as a human being. So so like always I've enjoyed this walking around the phone, you know, and like not being super focused on this is hard, but not being super focused on. All the tasks that need to be done. But just sort of trying to be delivered mindful of just like, let's just be in it and walk around the farm in that space and not in the sort of that needs to be done this needs to be done on their. And so so that sort of just just watching paying attention. I think that's my favorite part is just like. Just being being watching the change happen. You know, paying attention. You got a good warm day in February and see what grad school a little bit. It's like cheer not you know, and then. And then people I like people and the people person. So it's neat for me to interact with customers to see to see what this looks like to work with farmers to see what that looks like how do we solve problems too? So I kind of like stress bringing this is a good problem. Let's figure it out, you know, and that's an and this type agriculture where the prototypes are not dial. In yet. You know, what I mean like feel like we can wrote gross will pretty high quality grass-fed beef at this point. But we have an apples and do I feel like we can do our Ganic apples feel convincing that that's a good idea for other farmers to do. I don't feel that way. You know? I feel like we have we're not we're very humble in our approach towards sort of the concept of sustainability. And then the the the reality of the marketability and sales and the business side of executing on that vision. And so we we keep our eyes sort of wide open in both those places. And so it's you know, there's a lot of great concepts and ideas. Out there. How to improve things, but you know, there's a jillion details in that that you have to pay attention to and then you have to sort of wrap it up for the consumer and make sure it's clear what we're doing. And not just a then not just a concept that has no basis in reality. Like, you can grow organic apples. It looks like crud that you can sell for twice as much that doesn't work. Yeah. People people want pretty apple and I picked about apples out of the band, but my kids are human beings. And they haven't really been educated. Like, I have been they always go for the pretty one. I'm like, yeah. You're that's just that that what you just did drives me crazy. That is who you are. And you it's it's almost like something to do with the garden of Eden or something. I feel like sometimes ugly winds tastes better. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Maybe there's this whole ugly food and ugly fruit movement that's going to have some traction. But my retail experience apples in the falls led me to believe that people like Big Apple with no blemishes and. And that's that's hard to do our weekly consistently year in our area. I you you managed to answering the question. But is there anything that you're experimenting with right now that you're looking forward to future? So that's one. We're we're doing a lot of different things. We're also we're actually I'm sort of an idea person in some ways having lots of ideas, which which can get kind of overwhelming sometimes for everybody. So I'll put a moratorium on new ideas for the time being, but you know, everything from making these sausages and the butcher shop here to trying to do the apples organically to we had a little project last year with some. What was it? The. The the soldier flies where you can generate that we had bringing it a little bit of brewers grains, and trying to ferment that and turn it into soldier fly larvae that we could feed the chickens sort of took off kind of. A nice concept, but it was very sort of rotten base porn of the barnesville pretty bad. You know, experimenting with the best way to. Get your kids to like farming. So that's a big one. That's a big experiment. And I'm happy to say that my fourteen year old says, that's what he wants to do behind number two behind being a professional athlete. And so I'm cool with that. I feel like that's a winning to. That's good. An NBA star or. Yeah. Something like, yeah. That's that's that's that's that's that's way, better than I anticipated. And it's funny because I didn't really know this until he does like a presentation to school about what he wants to be. I'm like, really? Okay. I just learned a lot about you. How do you? How do your parents feel about all this seems all these changes? They like it. They they're into it, a mom mom's around all tongue and mom trumps anything. She's I think I meant charge or you know, we might have some conception that we should make decisions. But if she disagrees then. Just what you do. But we get along just fine and me, and my mom are pretty similar. We kinda liked to go and do it and have fun together. And it is she wears a blue sweatshirt as often as she can't especially in the winter. That says the boss, that's so that helps clarify any confusion. Anybody might have about the situation, but they liked being around the farm. They've been around the farm their whole lives. And so it's neat to, you know, integrate summer camp and all that stuff, and there's a million things in the middle of it all in all eating, and they didn't tell us this. And on having me crazy. Where's the tracker? Mom's got her. Bob got started. And she calls me because mom does all this. She drives the tractors. He does all those. It's kind of fun too. But in the back of her mind, she's annoyed by me because I took this little piece off. I don't see I can't find it. And so that's that's that's partly a relationship. You know being on a family farm them being annoyed by one another's inadequacies. That's human nature. That's what we do. And so Willie Nelson said you can either enjoy that. And appreciate it or you can get really frustrated annoyed by that. So Willie's got good advice. Just about just just be in it. Stay cool. What are some of your favorite things? What do you think makes ashville ashville? What do you love about it? So I think I think like all sort of artistic parts of of the people here that are that are want to be creative that wanna be things differently and think about things differently. And how do we? Think about what it means to have a really crazy type of beer, and that you can actually sell it and people are coming here for these different products. And it's not just a story. You know, this is like we're experimenting with really unique in crazy ideas in sort of this entrepreneurial artistic ecosystem that is generating some really interesting stuff. And that to me is probably my favorite part about sort of being an Asheville and going to check out a new restaurant. And there's there's enough people that are sort of part of that experience. Now that are able to. For period that other seas. And you see it more out of their cities to now. And so it's cool to be able to to have been on the ground with a lot of that got started. And so that and then just the sort of community piece of it. It's still pretty small town. And so you get to know other people, and you see people around, and you know, communities great because you sort of accountable to one another, but it's also in Wayne 'cause you're accountable to one another. Yeah. That's that's I like that. It's been here being annoyed. What about if you could? Share some message that you think the average American consumer doesn't know what what would you tell them? He could grab my shoulders, and it'd be pushing. That there's more more to sort of just an item on the shelf. You know, like story back there. There's a people back there, and we all impact each other. And and and the sort of old paradigm of of regulating, the correct behavior is ineffective, and obviously to some degree. And so we've got to find a way to build accountability, and integrity, and all the things that we want with food with products all that kind of stuff consumers drive in that at the end of the day all day long, and that Matt so they're buying choices matter, you know, you vote with your dollar way more every day than you do with your vote boats matter to, but, but you know, there's a there's a sort of general everyday vote that also really matters and incentivizes the type of future that you want as if. They're a dish to you that you're kind of like. Miss Daljeet four the is like when you think of Asheville of your childhood. What is the food that you think? Well, I grew up with my parents on a big garden. So that's all kind of what my experience was with like summertime, pork chops. That was always favorites his kids like mashed potatoes out of the garden that are new potatoes. Yeah. Just hanging out of the garden and small and really yummy. And they lots of butter and then. And like, you know, maybe some. My salad something like that. Or some peas PD's were always good. Although we never really picked these because we went out there and ate him, Bradley. That was on. So I guess with Asheville gosh, it's probably like crispy figures are alive. What what can we make out of this? And and so. I'll always order that you know, as an appetizer. And then share? Do you have a favorite of of meat? Do you have a favorite like if you're going to? Yeah. Like, I mean, I think that it's hard to be rid by. But at the same time, some of the more unusual ones like a flat iron stay because really good state for the price point. It's you know, if I like had to buy meat, which I'm lucky I'll have to really, but that's what I would probably buy more frequently just for the prices and then. Pork chops. For up to release good. Yeah. Can argue true science. I do love. We've heard a lot that ashes artistic community. I think a lot of people forget that cooking can be artists tick. So I love that. That's happening here. Yeah. And it's chefs artists. Yeah. Yeah. That's it's like artists can make a living. Cool. Let's chef like. I think it's great. This brings us to the end of our interview with Jamie. It was such a pleasure. It was a lovely day. And I hope that we can do more. More outdoor interviews on rocks. Absolutely. Yeah. We can goals. We can make happen happen. Thank you so much to all of you for listening for joining us on this and other bonus if you would like to Email as you can our Email is Hello at saver pod dot com or you can get in touch with us via social media. We are on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at saver pod. Thank you as always for super producer Dylan Fagin. Thank you for listening. And we hope that lots work things are coming your way. Hello. My name is Kevin Pollack. Yes. The award winning funny fellow from that film and TV thing that makes you smile every darn time. You see folks, did, you know, I've got a new comedy podcast that was created with you and mine 'cause I do it's called alchemy this, and it was designed with a single purpose, you laughing a lot I'm talking, please. Let some of those drive when listening if you enjoy laughing uncontrollably while running errands exercising or building a crispy cream Dona machine and your basement from parts you stole while working there as an assistant manager whole, buddy. Boy, I've got the comedy podcast for you each episode. I'm the puppet master who sets the scene and then five genius improvisers. And I will make you laugh and feel better alchemy. This the do funny podcast from me. Kevin pollick? Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheart. Radio app or wherever you listen the podcast.