Caught Offside: Previously on "The Bundesliga"...


They caught off side to betty. Yes offside me my God from the upper west side of Manhattan. I wish I wait. No no from a suburb of New York City and from Brooklyn. It's Andrew Grumbling and J. J. Davani. What's up brother? I am so excited about this podcast. We are going to take you round. The world in in kind of discovery are expiration. A fine football culture a certain night yet. None of this is this. Podcast will be fun on multiple levels. What you're referencing. We're going to speak with James Montague who's been on this podcast a couple of times in the past. We're going to talk with him a little bit later on because he he's an author. He's a journalist and he just wrote a book about a subject. That is so fascinating to you. And I and we've talked about many times on this show and that is a book centered around the topic of ultras and that culture within this sport and he's his to say that he did a deep dive on. It is really selling short. The research that he did he traveled for essentially a year. I think he said ten months. He traveled the world going and for lack of a better term embedding himself within different ultra groups And just kind of observing the way they go about their their fandom their politics so he will join us later on in this podcast and like. I said it's something that we've talked about on this podcast. A lot is ultras and that culture. And he's GonNa go. He's going to go deep and it's not always pretty We've detailed many red card on the behavior of ultras so he James Montague will join us. I think you're going to want to listen to that. Because it's really fascinating and the Bundesliga is back Andrew. All that is why I am. I am truly excited. Because we're actually gonNA talk sought like actual substantive soccer like it's coming back. One of the major leagues in this world is coming back this weekend. And so we are almost treating this podcast like its own mini season preview. Nine Games remaining. And so we're going to give you five questions to kind of detail. The remainder of the season his final sprint. I think it's more of a case of previously on the Bundesliga rather than a preview. I think it's a nice little little thing to to wet the appetite for the weekend and also I think it's great for US Andrew because it's a league that gets short shrift from us because of the the behemoth Premier League and often I've watched games like adult drab lester so again and then I i. It's wrong twelve thirty thinking over in. It's maybe the second half of a brilliant thing game and I'm like why am I watching more of this? And then we get. We get the chance to kind of focus in on it. I'm excited actually. It's GonNa be fun by the way. I think you're witnessing history right now. You can see me through this this this program we use. I think this is the longest that my hair has actually ever been in my entire life. What he thinks about while. I actually think it suits you. I think it's I mean you've got nice hair anyway I would venture to say I would say at some point though knowing you. The sides will become too unkempt for your ears create. It'll create an ear problem. I'm I'm I'm in that area too. I've had on because my hair is just a greasy mass. I don't go outside. I'm looking at troll. Under a bridge I will be doing on either Thursday or Friday. I will be doing the home haircut. I've I can go no further. I've bought the conair clippers. It will be happening so shooting for more hair co taught next week when I when I clearly have to shave it off because I butchered it Godspeed by the way I wanted to follow up on something so I'm not I won't use his name. Casey didn't want it out there. But a buddy of mine you know as well works in the advertising world he helps right and create commercials that you have all seen and so. He texted me because he listened to our last podcast and he actually loved our conversation about what happened in the ad world and he kind of gave me a little bit like we talked. We kind of mocked what the AD world going wrong with krona virus. How every single company simultaneously came out with the same exact commercial emotional piano emotional. Play that all in this together emotional plea to buy their product. They all did it. And so he He said to me he said Yeah. Most good agencies ad agencies tried to tell their that this was happening that all of these companies were demanding the same type of ads but most clients didn't care and wanted anyway. I mean that's incredible to me because they've all melded together into one ad. Which is basically this product loves you. This products being there for you through the hard times. Chua a shot of the troops at Kua shot of hospital. Curious shot of a child being lifted up all those things that are you know that touch our hearts drinks very much in that are very close to us but this company will be there for you in the sense that we will continue to take your money for that kind of and then leave and but it was. I thought it was cool him to kind of. Give me like the backstory that yes well he basically saying yes we are. All everyone in. Advertising is keenly aware of. What's happening and we're trying to kind of move into a different direction. Thank him for the thanks for the insight That's really good and I would just like to say that. I have an intro for our Bundesliga chat. Are you ready? Oh welcome to good. Good having the Bundesliga back so here we go five questions about the return of the Bundesliga. Now here's the first one and I really. I said we're GONNA talk soccer and will but I do think that it is important for fans who haven't been following every step of the way. Just exactly what protocols are going to be in place for when the League returns and I think it's important for people to kind of know when they turn on their. Tv's like what they should be expecting to see because this is all whatever you remember from nine weeks ago in the way things looked. It's going to be different now so here. It is so the first question is what is the Bundesliga's actual plan in returning. So I kind of have it all here for you and jump in. Jj whenever you want. I'm GonNa just roll through this until you stop me. So Saturday is when it really begins. Borussia Dortmund shock is probably your most marquee match huge Darby. You're the key things to know like we said this is GonNa be a sprint. The plan is for everyone to be finished by June twenty-seventh so that is nine games in seven weeks plus there's rumors of one and a half the DSP POCO semifinals completed by then as well. So you're talking about cramming in ten matchdays within seven weeks. That is a lot. There will obviously be no fans in stadiums. You all know that teams are going to be allowed five substitutions per match now. Here's some of the interesting quirks. No more than three hundred and twenty two people will be allowed into the stadium for a game and within that three hundred twenty two essentially breaks down to this. They've they've gone deep here. Ninety eight people allowed pitch side that includes the teams referees all that Var officials Hundred fifteen in the stands which I think is a lot of security personnel And then one hundred nine outside of the stadium and this includes everyone from Tv personnel vard. More Vortex engineers things like that so essentially. They've said that there are basically three hundred. Twenty two essential people to make a game televised game of football. Go off now. There's also been reports that there's going to be random checks from club medical personnel to ensure that players are observing all the proper guidelines. When they're not at the stadium in terms of social distancing. So now here's some of the things that I know. People are wondering about. So what will happen when a goal is scored were so used to seeing hugging high? Fiving team celebrations. Allow me to read this to you from ESPN JJ and this is stuff that I really find. Jarring the Bundesliga told the club's on Friday that players are not allowed to celebrate together exchange high fives or embrace quote. Short contact with elbow or foot is permitted. The players are so creative. I'm excited to see what will happen if somebody scores. Phobic says that's Freddy Boba. Sporting director from on-track Frankfurt players are also asked not to spit other than during rehydration. So that is what will happen after a goal is scored short contact with elbow or foot. We're going to see some funky chicken dances. I think the elbow can touch the funky chicken as we know again. Very nice very cool but it was the same as taking up the handshake in the Premier League game. And then you're GONNA start crashing into people in tackles for over nineteen minutes. Well what I'm curious about is so and there's more than I want to get to but I wanted to ask you specifically what like so. Let's say they disobey that. The referees have been read into this if players are hugging like are the referees within their rights to to hand out a yellow card. If this is an order. That's been handed down than that if the referees have been told to to regulate celebrations in the same way. If you take Your Jersey off the referees of being told to give yellowcard then I guess I guess they will but this. This is so name and silly. When you consider that you're going to be man-marking someone cheek-to-jowl on a corner kick. It's a celebration minimizing risk. I don't know all right also this fans because there's concern now. Okay no fans in the stadium. You know how passionate these fans are. They're gonNA show up like we saw with PS G. Well not so fast my friend to quote Lee Corso fans show up in large groups outside the stadium. Their team will automatically lose that match so up to this point. Brunettes League officials team officials said that they've heard nothing whether it be on social media or wherever that their fan bases are intending to do this so it seems like two now. We'll see what happens on Saturday up to now. Everybody is planning on following the rules. Now here's the big one and this is. This is a tough one. What if somebody tests positive? I think this is what leads. All around the world in every sport had been grappling with. How do we handle this eventuality? Which is almost a certainty. I feel like So I've seen some conflicting numbers here but I'm GONNA go with. Espn is reporting. That a player will be players are going to be tested twice a week the day before a match and then another day during the week. And if there's a midweek match they'll be tested the day before that mid week match. Now here's where it gets kind of confusing if a player test positive they're gonNA go into quarantine for mandatory fourteen days along with anyone that they've been in contact with Being stressed that this does not mean in tire team will have their matches put on hold however it's confusing because in the second division right now in Germany. They're dealing with this already dynamo. Dresden just had two players test positive and the entire club is going into quarantine thus putting their return on. Hold so to me. It almost looks like Dresden. Is Setting the precedent here whether or not the Bundesliga is telling you that this is what's going to happen if that's already what a club has deemed to be the safest course of action will will it be okay for another club to not do the same. I don't know what they're basically saying is a player test positive. They're going to ask that player. The people he's been in contact with and they're kind of categorizing the level of that contact if you were in direct contact with somebody for fifteen minutes or more. They're saying that person also needs to go into quarantine. This is going to be this to me. This is going to be. The hard part is managing this kind of situation. Because I don't know I don't know what's right. I don't I'm not a doctor. I can't tell you what the proper amount of time is before the virus could become dangerous to somebody you've been in contact with. I have no idea and I don't know if these wounds legal officials know either so people are going to be relying on local health officials. The government for for what their standard is and they're just bay are the Guinea pig now for the world will find out if this is good enough or not yet. The eyes of the world are the football word at least in the sporting more will be on the Bundesliga this weekend. Finally just before we move on from this. It's been report. Players will drive to home games rather than travel together while people carriers will bring them in small groups to away matches. It has also been reported as you said. Medical professionals will turn up without warning to make sure they're observing the guidelines on to make sure that incidents like the solemn Kalou incident where he don't happen again but anyway let's get to the vehicle. We'll hang on before we do that. I do have one more thing because I do think that this is important too. I want to read you one thing and then I swear we'll focus on football but I'm reading stuff about this and I just want to say that I I really really hope that. They're getting back to games because they truly believe they're in a place where it's safe to do so and not because other forces are play this is from. Espn FC JJ. They write as many as eighteen of the thirty six teams. In Germany's top. Two divisions could have faced severe financial difficulties had the league's not returned the season according to Boondocks. Ceo Christian Cypher. He said if the leagues were cancelled they would lose in the region of eight hundred million dollars now. Hans Yo came wasco Bruce Dorfman. Ceo said ominously. The Bundesliga would not exist in its current form if the season was canceled. This what the DFL executive committee said in April and their quote was we do not want economic crisis to lead to structural damage that could be irreparable and radically changed the face of professional football and so getting the Games back on television. Even without spectators was established as a priority. I just hope I know money's important Not going to be so naive to not think that. But if they're doing this because money trump's safety then that I don't know I'm going to choose to trust them Andrew. Of course it's about the money. It is a massive part of it. And they've even began talks about how they need to restructure German football. So it doesn't happen again so if there is a crisis. They're not so beholden to the final payment from a TV company which ultimately controls fit their face. I would just say this before we move on if there is a country that I have faith in to execute diligent scientific protocol to make a league safe. It's Germany and that is just based on what I know about them based on their leaders and their their prime minister. They're they're President who is a scientists are so this is this is a frigging Black Mirror episode. Like that show isn't isn't like I never want anymore. I never watched it but I feel like that show. It's this is all become so real that that shows not even interesting anymore. What else Israel? Andrew what football football Israel. I'm sorry with with bogging you down with important and pertinent information. I'm stuck head I can't do much more of it. I'm at breaking point with this stuff. All right so and there's a constituency of people out there that will be in our DM's you're scaring people whatever we do this so I'm not scaring anybody. I'm giving the information I agree you are is. I'm not speculating. I'm just saying this is what the Bundesliga is going to look like when it comes back. Okay here's the animals alright for second question. I football question. Just how much is this? Byron's title to lose and that's such an interesting question and I think usually it's not an interesting question because they've had their seasons on both. They've had their bit of upheaval with new manager. Bought it's typical Byron. We've come into the business ended the season or rather a little bit later and therefore points there at the top but yeah we should go through. What the top of the table actually looks like byner on top fifty five points Bruder second on fifty one RB Leipzig next with fifty Borussia. Moenchengladbach aren't fourth on forty nine. So you don't even mention Gladbach at forty nine points like is it likely no but I still would say that. They're part of this title race. But if you rewind weeks and say things are absolutely normal and you go into the next Bundesliga match week. I'm expecting Barron Munich to win. I'm expecting them to go on and win. The league like they have in previous despite their early season upheavals. No we've had this break and so there's a few questions that need to be asked. So how might that affect? Is striker like Robert Lantos ski? Who was in top form? I'm we say. For example Thomas Muller who is being rejuvenated since Hassi Flick took the job. How does a new manager bounce worked for Hansi Flick when the bounces being interrupted by mobile no longer? The ball has stopped announcing well. Yeah but I mean are the things that he implemented that that really turned Munich season around. Are those things going to kick into gear when we go back playing football now? Younger players like Nabri Davis. I don't think they get roast but maybe say someone like Jerome Boy. Tang gets a little bit of rust. How're players affected by no games in two months so ordinarily I would say this is barren fight to lose but all these kind of intangibles we really have no answers for so I suppose from that point of view we don't know you're right but look ultimately though. I do believe that when you're buying Munich you've won seven straight titles and you have a four point lead with nine matches to go. I mean ultimately yes. I'm not saying that it's not in question but it is right now. They're title to lose. They have a fairly difficult schedule from here on out. They still have to go to Bruce. Dorfman after two Beyer Leverkusen they'll host Gladbach so that's three of the top five that they still do have to play now. Look going to Dortmund in an empty stadium. I don't know is. Is that still a disadvantage going there without fans being? They're not really. I guess other than the fact that it's not their own stadium that they're used to but no fans. I don't know how much it's GonNa even Matter Road Games Verse Home Games. The thing that you bring up it's interesting to me. Is the the question of form like we've had this two month to month gap so does form even matter? I? I'm looking at Byron's. Most recent results their last four matches before this coming weekend to nil over. Augsburg a win one win over Schulkin in the cup six nil win back in the League over. Hoffa Heim and then that three nil win at Stanford Bridge Against Chelsea in the Champions League they haven't lost since December seven th and that was against Gladbach so in Gladbach so no shame in that necessarily they've had only one draw in that span which against Leipzig. So they've been truly dominant for months now but like I said. Does that form come to just kind of like screeching halt kicked ball. You don't have match fitness so we are entering in imagine starting next season if teams and players hadn't done a full preseason. We're kind of not zone. There's only so much they'll have been able to do in the controlled environment that they've had to train in the last few days so it fascinating that question. I don't know maybe barons rhythm is is is upset and it opens the door for Dortmund to do something. Maybe I guess before we move to the next one. I kind of in a moment like this. Lean on the idea of this is the same situation for everyone. Everyone is dealt with the same gap. These training issues anti stadiums. So I kinda just in a moment like that you throw out like momentum neutra variables and you just. Kinda have to lean on okay. Who Actually has the best team? Who's the most talented team? And I still think as good as Dorman and Leipzig are still think that it's Barnum unit and with them being spotted a four point lead. They're still going to be my pick. Go on and do this next one. Yes Sir all right. Which player are you most excited about watching? I want to start to caveat straightaway. I'm excited about this brochure. Dortmund Team Giovanni Riina Jen Sancho Holland. Obviously they are look. They're going to be box office. They are box office already. But I WANNA talk about Miller Rashiq out of Vertebra Andrew. Ten goals and five assists across a very tough season for Virga brench now. He's a busy energetic forward. He plays off the left hand side. He's in demand everywhere including Red Liverpool and West Ham strangely and rb Leipzig. Apparently because you can get him cheap. There's something in his contract that says he could move for thirty million and a twenty three years of age he just seems like the modern footballer. That would play into three upfront anytime. I've I've tuned into watch further and he's been such a lively presence and if they're going to stay up they need them to really restart. This season. Strong Hives Leverkusen will be stiff opposition to restart with but he's a key player here Andrew. I don't need to tell you. Verner Brennan Josh Sergeant on the guys are in serious trouble there. Seventeen to the table on gem four points off for Tuna Docile Darfur relegation playoff position. So you know this is this is really bad. And if you'd said at the start of the season while Verte Bremen are gonNA finish below Berlin. I mean I wouldn't have believed it. But that's a that's really possible now and this was a manager. Their manager at the start of the season was talking about euro per league spots new. So will they've been. They've been horrifying defensively given up. I think they've got more goals than anybody in the league up to this point. Yeah and they've got a decent squad. They've got a solid enough squad but the problem is you know if you're leaky at the back you're going to end up in these kind of Struggle Regina for me as a grit there to watch on at the risk of you know kind of he reminds me of a player that could come into like a Uragan klopp style on unfit in seamlessly. He's not going to player. Let's see I went over to Leipzig with Christopher and Kuku from rb lights you know the website who scored dot com. They keep track of players form from leads all over the world so over. His last six appearances and conquer the only player in the League in the Bundesliga with an average rating above eight at eight point zero nine which is honestly that's astounding for that number over six games. He's only twenty. Two years old started out. The season is kind of a fringe starter for them. And now you simply can't take him out fifteen assists So far in the season five in his last six games before the stoppage. But sometimes the stat that I like even more For a playmaker like Kuku isn't necessarily the assist because you're kind of relying on somebody else to finish the job that you started. I kinda like key passes in. His last Games is at four point seven per match. That is by far best in the League in this window. Just to put that number in perspective overall for the entire season across Europe's top. Five Leagues. Dmitri Pyatt is I At four per game so I know to smaller sample size and Kuku hasn't six Just six games but four point seven tells you just how good of a number of that is. He is consistently putting guys in the right positions to score goals. So he would be somebody for May like I. I agree with you. Ultimately I think Borussia Dortmund is is true box office. There were a Lotta guys that I could have chosen from them. Like when they're playing. I feel like no matter what that's kind of the game that I feel like I'm going to gravitate towards but rb. Leipzig is right there in this title race. Oh Christopher Kuku somebody would put on your radar. Only twenty two years old also Premier League fans. So you know these big clubs with all their money are gonNA come calling for guys like him at some point next question. Which remaining match are you most excited for Saturday? June twentieth? Twenty twenty or be Leipzig. Who were right in the mix in this race will host Borussia Dortmund? We chose the same one. God Adam let me let let me just let over people If if you want exciting football you know in Europe. And in the Bundesliga this season or be Leipzig under NATO's men have been pretty much one of the teams to watch us to watch. And you know if you look at Borussia Dortmund look at all these young players. I'm about to list off all in on one field playing against each other. So you've got sasho Holland GAMY BRANDT VERSUS TIM O. Warriner bits are schick atoms for spark. I mean this just could be real fun. And I'm assuming the likes of Russia Dortmund are gonNA still be in the mix comb the penultimate game the disease. It's the second to last game of the year so yeah I would agree and the race remember to the race. The top four race is not settle. 'cause Beyer Leverkusen is right there and fit right for one of these two teams even if they fallen out of the title race. Second the last game of the year got to believe one of them may still be battling to stay up For Champions League places Yeah you mentioned all that you say it's funny you cut. How did you determine you said this could be really exciting? Well I would tell you it already has been because when these two teams face back in December. It ended three three. It was one of the Games of the year. Bruce Dorfman throughway to nil lead early on. Komo verner score two goals in the first eight minutes of the second-half tie it than Jaden Sancho put. Dortmund back up front. And then Patrick. Schick in the seventy eighth foot home rebound to level up at three three thrilling game who was in the pouring rain. Leipzig had a goal. Taken off for For A close offsides call. It was just up and down like you said you mentioned all the names just like high drama and now yet you throw Gio Raina and Erling Holland into the next. Two guys who weren't obviously Holland wasn't a part of it at that point. Raina was not really a first team for Doorman yet. So yeah that was the one that I circle to. And it's funny because Byron still do play Borussia Dortmund on matchday twenty eight which is always one of the Marquis Games of the year but yeah I went to Leipzig as well. Forget Dortmund's propensity to be brilliant going forward and give up a lot of chances is just. It's mouth watering. When you consider NATO's Manny's tactical ability and and the way they always play or more or less always play on the Front Foot Greg Game. Yeah all right last one for the American centric Fan. Is this actually the best league to have come back? There's no question for me. Andrew Weston mckennie tighter atoms date. You look at those two central midfield players. We expect an how crucial we think they will be in the future of the US. Men's national team. This gives us a chance to really hone in on them unto watch them. You've got Josh Sergeant. Who's at this weird moment in his career where I honestly don't believe he's out and out goalscorer but he needs to come up. Big Goals is only three this season. Vertebra in a relegation bound team. And you just look at the obviously the emerges of g arena. You could say the spine from centre forward number ten Josh Sergeant to the midfield to maybe even another number ten or more creative midfielder and Geoana attacking player you've got like almost the spine of the future for the US men's national now. If you WANNA throw in John Brooks I for center back then you truly have a spine absolutely and if you WANNA go with goalkeeper. I know he's injured. So that's unfortunate but ZAC staff and we'll be laying out for Fortuna Dusseldorf so but if you did imagine he was fit then the keys to the future for this. Your spends asking team are playing in Germany. So this is obviously the league to Also that guy at Chelsea but your point Oh yes I'll come on you. I just need to let people know that. Jj did not forget about the Christian Pulisic. So I was reading Stars and Stripes. Fc Their blog about American soccer and they were writing about this and they said between the first and second divisions of German football you want to guess. How many clubs have at least one American on their roster Fifteen eighteen so essentially half so? Yes this if you're an American if you are somebody who just loves American Soccer. Yes this is. This is the league The guy you mentioned. I'm so curious. Jj I wonder if you are to about Gio Raina because like what a weird time to have this all kind of go away like you've you've just broken through and are playing at this high level. Remember the goal that he set up in the Champions League first leg against PS G. Y. The goal that he scored of course against Vertebrae Yeah so I mean he was really beginning to emerge and then boop just taken out from under him I just you know we keep talking about forum I I. I hope so badly that at least for this season not permanently but hope this hasn't stunted whatever sort of forward momentum. He was building Heading into the final stretch. I don't think I think that will affect players at the other end of their careers more sudden stoppage rather than the younger players. I wouldn't worry hugely about that. There was a cool feature on. Espn about go raina. Just sort of like diving into what his life has been like Before this corona virus and kind of now into it. It's him an early Holland it makes sense. They're both like to the youngest guys on the team. Dave apparently struck up a great friendship where I didn't know this but Raina I guess is too young to be able to drive right now. In Germany so Holland has served as his chauffeur and it sounds like Holland. Raina and Jaden Sancho have become like fast friends. How can we become friends with them and hang out with them? I need them to be my friend. Thing your we've been sure too much andrew for that there's more than a decade between us and them and that that hurts us in the becoming friends with young rising star. Now you're right like georamas seventeen. I can't like I could be his dad. Well I prefer. The daddy actually has he. Is he had a much better. I touch thing you by the way he's as we've met his father. I met a dot on several occasions. Now and he's just a very calm. Level-headed person. Oh my God. He's such a nice man. He is indeed. And you mentioned just sergeant through. I just wanted to. I kind of like a not not rooting for anything bad. Obviously to happen to Verte Brennan but I sort of liked that Josh. Sergeant is going to be thrown into some really really high stakes. Important matches like him rise to the occasion and now they don't get a chance to defend themselves because the Fox broadcast team will not be on the broadcast going forward. But I saw an argument between can't quite remember who it was but it was. It was Ian. Ian Joy was arguing that he needs to score more goals. He needs to do this or do that. I actually think he is the second Stryker. If you pay up front and I think he's a link man I think he's actually more creative force than he is. A note goal score always said that I have always said that. The best moments you've seen from him is not being scoring goals on he. He's got that in his locker. It's more more linking the play dropping off. And he does that for note. There's veterans verb classes and. There's no resigned in the midfield. That maybe need to to find him. Are they need to find a relationship? With Watt. Sergeant is doing but I think he brings more than just goals and it's unfortunate. Now that the pressure the only metric may be measured by unless it's assists will be goals because they need goals badly also last bit on this did you see what. Western mckinney said the other day to zone except for me the next goal is England is always been my dream to play in the premier league. Well this is your chance to To Be Seen Weston. You're doing fine western. You're doing fine so there you go Bundesliga kicks off this weekend. All I haven't seen the actual channel listings but it's a Fox lead here in the United States so Checkout F S ONE F S to wonder if regular Fox like what is regular Fox. Going TO BE AIRING. That is so important that time of day on. Weekends. They couldn't be airing. Whatever the Marquee Bundesliga matches feel they should. They should get on that. Yeah actually. Why are the airing dishes that throat on their? What's the worst that can happen right? Why not man? I can't wait like this is actual games of of importance. It's GonNa it's GonNa look weird at first but I I don't know I think we'll get used to it sadly like I don't want to get used to not seeing fans at games like fans and soccer sports in general are such a huge part of the action and the atmosphere and like I don't know I just love that element other but you know right. Now we're kind of sports fans like beggars can't be choosers. Like this is what it is. We're going to enjoy it. Look people can't complain. It's live competitive football. Just watch it. Yeah let's see we'll get to James Montague and just a couple minutes but there's a couple other quick things both in mls and in the Premier League that we felt like we needed to be mentioned here Wanted to mention. Mls I jj sounds like. They're getting closer to at least having plan whether or not this is made official. I guess we'll find out in the coming days but right now it's being reported that what they ideally would like to have everyone go to. Disney's wide world of Sports Complex so all teams will go there and start training on around June first. So they'll all be in this. Mls bubble at Disneyworld and then in lieu of a season. They're looking at a tournament involving all twenty six teams which would begin somewhere like three to four weeks after this training begins multiple sources told. Espn that one proposed format for the tournament with see the League's teams divided into groups with each team playing around five games during the group stage. This would be followed by a knockout stage with constellation games stage to make sure each team played the same number of matches so obviously soccer fans are familiar with this kind of format Here's what I would say about it. I you know moments ago. I just got finished saying beggars can't be choosers. And that certainly applies here These are crazy times. You take what you get and be happy with it and I will be and I will watch this and it'll be cool and fun. However it's such an extreme break from the norm in terms of the League itself that like I'll like it and if if if the Philadelphia Union or to go on and win I'll be happy about it but this this season if they do kind of have a season of this format it will always carry an asterisk like it would be hard for a team to win the season and like go on telling everyone. Yeah we also have an MLS Cup like this feels like a fun thing that is of just separate unto the League itself. I think if it gets viewership and the tournament is a success or broadly enjoyed by fan bases. Mls have no no qualms with having truncated regular season and then a an almost march madness style twice. Odd you've lost your so that's it now so get this so if people watch this what would ever be the the gauge to determine that this is now going to replace the League as we know it. This is this. Is You throwing hot? Takes out there? I Honestly Andrew. Until we see a full proposal them for what they're going to do in their tournament. I don't know I'm I'm kind of with you. we'll see what they do. What's what's interesting is the news? That's com today. I suppose not really news with Syria. I hope for a June. Thirteenth return again pending. It's important yeah. But it's it's pending. Government Vosa was see how that goes and then their sources saying that the the championship will return before the Premier League And then I saw a counter report to that. Championship is having a kind of a flight within itself in the AFL along the same lines as the primarily fight which is over the relegated teams wanting to remove relegation because of possible neutral venues indicates that the championship. They just want relegation removed from this season. Which I don't know how it's going to work. And then another conflicting report. We all thought it would be neutral. Grounds for the Premier League restart but ATV issued this at six thirteen pm. Today are yesterday was testimony so yesterday police are open to finishing the premier league season. Homegrown is after all the Premier League campaign to scrap the plan for neutral venues appears to have been successful. Sources said the country's top football police officer Deputy Chief Constable Mark Roberts has softened his stance on insisting that behind closed doors matches to finish. The season are not played at home. That was a security issue again about Fines congregating outside. So that seems to be a another. I won't say spanner in the works flying the Something else that's cropped up. We'll have to see whether the police stick with that or not but yeah I mean. I don't know I'm seeing so many conflicting things day today. This project Greece dark does not seem as sentenced on our as thoroughly thought out as we thought it had or I thirty agreed upon. I think is is really the question definitely. That's their problem right now. Is I don't know that the players we've been hearing this but I don't know that the players want this right now. daddy rose weighing in saying football. Shouldn't even be spoken about until the numbers have dropped. Massively people's lives are at risk ream sterling also weighed in saying the moment we do go back just needs to be a moment where it's not just for footballing reasons which you and. I kind of talked about earlier It's safe for not just UH footballers. But the whole medical staff referees He said this on his youtube channel sterling went on. I don't know how that's GonNa work but I feel like once that side of the people safety and the players safety is secured and their wellbeing as looked after that. That's the right time to go back until then I'm how can I say not scared but reserved and thinking what the worst outcome could be so some of these guys you know. Danny Rose Raheem Sterling. These are prominent names. Aren't they're not like yeah. Let's go let's get back out there and play. That's that's I'm sure they're not alone in feeling that way. Andrew this is nothing new. We heard this two weeks ago from Sergio Aguayo that there clearly is a groundswell of opinion amongst players. That they're really they have reservations about going back and and like you said before. And IT'S THE SALIENT POINT. Going back for the right reasons You know I don't necessarily believe from from the data that I've seen think that corona virus could affect detrimentally somebody in their twenties or in their thirties as a professional athlete. But at the same time I'm reading articles about how one of the key problems that medical professionals are having with this virus is that in some cases attacks people as old as are as young as thirty seven or thirty eight. It causes blood clots. It causes all sorts of attacks. Some of the major organs. It's different in different organs for a lot of people and we can't say for sure that every single premier league footballer that sets onto the field is one hundred percent safe and they have every right to voice their concerns of this while there you go so I guess for now like the Premier League with the championship within the last Even Italy like you mentioned Spain like we still don't know what we don't know so for now the focus it's next week we'll be doing a podcast we'll be recapping soccer action from the Bundesliga so great. That's good man. Brilliant and honestly with the stuff we've been doing. We have not been still for soccer talk in a way in a way this season the football never ends G. Yeah that's not a thing we've said hundreds of times before. I'll tell you what we're going to talk to James Monarchy in a SEC I. Jj I wanna tell you something about Shipu. Ecommerce businesses shipping in two days or last as the new standard as a growing business. 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They're offering their best discount available anywhere. Get a ship consultation and ship. Oh pro plan six month. Trial for free at go. Shipu DOT com slash offside. That's up to a seven hundred dollars value for free at go. Shipu DOT com slash. Offside go right now. Get your shipping consultation and ship. Oh pro plan six month trial for free at go. Shipu DOT COM slash offside O F F S. I D go shipu James Monica. We talked to on what was the last time. J. J. around the World Cup. He was he was in Croatia. He was in Belgrade and he joined us to talk about how Croatia I've been this footballing miracle from such a small population rising from the ashes of the war to to create a team. That goes all the way to a World Cup final yet. But he's a renowned author renown journalists one of our favorite guys to talk about this sport with and really to talk about we. We've always enjoyed talking fan culture with him so he's Kinda taken that passionate and just gone all in on it and he's written this unbelievable book about Ultras It's called one. Three one two among the ultras and the explosive inside story of the world's most extreme fans I it's a fascinating look. I can't wait to talk about at the one three one two. It's like this code within ultra culture. It's like a kind of an like an anti police code within ultras and it's sort of just like a thing that they share among one another. Yeah they use the use codes a lot in ultra Unin fire right fringe culture. They'll have numbers to denote. Certain things dates names and things like that. And this is one of the yeah. There's certainly a lot going on with ultra culture that we that we've spoken about it length that we don't necessarily agree with but James was was embedded within this and can kind of share the INS and outs of what it's all about and we're really excited talk to him now about this book. James Montague back on the show James. What's up man? How are you off a pretty decent certain? Yeah it's been. It's been two months of the lockdown and I guess we're all in the same boat but you know I've I've planned my escape back cones Istanbul so I think in two weeks maybe we be on the move but I mean England now and hopefully. Yeah hopefully things change. I mean it get better at some point. Yeah Yeah You talked about how you've been on the move so much. I was actually curious because I know for this book. You're traveling was so extensive. I mean like if what we're in now had happened. Whenever you wouldn't have been able to write this book right like are screwed. I it would have stopped. I mean in a way. What's interesting about ultra culture is the of? It's a coach that exists could. Have you know attached to put boob in many respects except was well? I you actually think. Few stories about kind of charitable work could incidents that? Oh Treasury could be involved in like I didn't instant grab where the five blue boys of of Tina Bozo grab. Were actually if you heard. This doesn't earthquake there few about six weeks ago and I rushed to the hospital when we're involved in like evacuates yet and stuff and there's been lots of German ultra groups who vote in like a rising money full. Pp for health workers getting food for them and stuff. So there has been you know still goes on but it wouldn't have been World has now become very very small whereas before they said no just this book I mean every other book in my writing you know it was a very big could go anywhere. I kind of lucky for that and so now. My world is literally. I reckon. Two hundred meters in diameter right in. And so. Yeah if this happened a year ago then that book yet. This probably wouldn't be finished before we get into the book itself which is absolutely fascinating. I've been enjoying reading it although not finished it yet. I've yet to get `Albania Indonesia and places like that which fascinated to see what kind of support culture is there an James? How would the ultras are the at least the people that you have talked to and communicate and being amongst for writing this book? How will they take the resumption of Leagues Without Fans in the stadium? Quite badly We've already seen that. I mean one of the things that either does big chapter Germany and the reason. Why focusing on Germany's because it has I mean they have pretty much the most politically active out your seat in the world. I mean it's fantastic when you see. There's some of this far left this fall right. There's a lot of key Especially the fall right is. There is some trumpeting connections but even the the groups the from a kaleidoscope of political backgrounds old could have campaign on very similar issue so against ticket prices. You know a Monday night football. Which is you know against working. People will keep. Let's take Monday off if they want to travel around Germany Logistic like the the ownership structure in German for fifty plus one which is quite complex. Pau beans the power kicked in the hands of the fines so so they always been involved in the decision making and as soon as they roost Now looks like it will be. The first major could a will lead to restart that that they dead against it know without without fans for nothing and I think there is a there is also a fed that took place this Pandemic and the lobby. What uses an excuse to take away the power from which is in German football. Because just before this happened that if you of this but there was a really interesting issue that took place involving at deep mall. Halt of yet of Hoffman. Heim and ultra is in Germany against often. Hyman AGAINST ALL BE LEIPZIG. Because they see the two teams is having around this find ownership multiple. They have this fifty plus a bit more complicated that but basically it gives them a little power and so the odors of being they. There was one matching particular. They're abusing hall from there giving him you know. There's a banner I mean it was quite distaste for us but it was interesting. Was the players start playing amongst themselves against Munich. And they're talking amongst themselves because they disagreed with the coaches are saying. There's a big debate with the ultra it going fall. I should be crackdown on and it was. It was a city debate ready because the main outages in Germany of German football honest the reason why Jovan boys the best fan experience in the world is the down to the ultras for keeping the ownership. Which is something you can't imagine in American sports but the fines. Kate owners feet to the fire on almost every single wishing and so. I can I can see the fans that against the every out to group is against it saving. It's in Atlanta's ultras of said. They have in the season of their lives. But the epicenter initially was in Burgum. Oh has one of the most famous ultra groups in the world pretty much like even though we're doing so good we called celebrating this win out our family. Oh people are dying so we also use these over whatever you decide today. So yeah across the world which is Trae much dead against it and Germany is going to be the first rule out ground for it James. The book itself is fascinating. But there's actually there's some questions I have for you just about almost worth like the process of having written the book now. You can tell me if I'm wrong but I guess my outsider. Perception of ultra culture. That it's just a little bit closed off to the mainstream And mainstream sports society so with that in mind I mean how cooperative were some of these groups to take you in. I mean you were essentially indebted among these ultra groups. Were they they were on board with all of this yeah. I had a few months ago. Something they wrote up offers like I was undercover I wasn't undercover was. I couldn't go on the cover that UPI sniff out in east and then and then I really would be in trouble. No I the reason why be on. I've always been fascinated by fan culture and and it's a weird thing to say but I agents read anything off right for the written for the bleacher poll the Times you know. I never really actually about football. You know so so case. Is You know it's everything around it and I've always found that the fines of always been the most fascinating Interesting Paul of it. So over the past fifteen years traveling around going quite obscure places I think going quite deep into law the stories that I've done a uppercut of network of contacts. No doubt I was always aware of outside and I'd never really be truly taking in as one of them. I was allowed access to people who were the foundational figures within the Italian. Ultra Saline Within Argentina managed to speak to referee desire. Who'S THE HEAD OF LHASA? Which is the of Boca Juniors? He's he's he's he's a celebrity in Argentina but also one of the most could've infamous family in the world. I so it was also about finding the right. People say it was. It was just a network of contacts that I can fill up over the years as a low tastes. I wrote this up late running the book but it all the time. I turned to why they didn't want anything to do with me. I'm so it was it was. I mean I lived in Belgrade until very recently. I have good friends WHO RITZ FINES. Many of the India. Who which is the ultras group that you know it even someone that they trusted a new and you would have a beer with. I was British journalists. You know there's just no way we can do anything so were they. Were tools that were close to me. They were Insane numbers were open space. Because of I I actually found one. Those one incident where I an interview with Diabolic Brit say. Who's the most the leader of the energy which is the far right's must neo? Nazi group of of of Dot Ca and we kind of we have a coincides to going back and forth took by doing the interview. And what can seal? The deal wasn't necessarily it was about the previous book. I've always told the previous Britain which was called the billionaires club which is about you know why the super rich taking over soccer. And how much a bad thing and how super-rich really just messed up wherever they go and that was an issue that widely in the whole shoe shape of the political spectrum with you electoral. On Your if you're on the fall like the fall right. That's an issue. They on their also writing against globalization railing against the super-rich. So it was. It was like okay. He's one of them We'll give you and so you know ends up. We have this crazy to our interview very intensive at the headquarters in Rome Way You know. He's very open. Very honest about Fascism and I mean when he gets out the call cases the headquarters he you know everybody gives him the Roman Salute With the next big portrait Mussalini it but but that would have been like to try on to think so but yeah it was just it was just crazy and then you know it was. It was a retains interview. Then three months later he was shot dead in a Paul him wrong because he was also involved in all sorts of extracurricular activities which you see in in the Italian ultra saying about astrology in Argentina is kind of moved into organized crime as well as far as politics so it was I think in the one hand once once she started speaking to some groups and they heard in spoken to people who conveyed in the same which diabolic caused by certain side of it then than that that kind of opened the doors for me as well so it was just. It was a very Hustle basically to not hustling in trying to get one over ninety one but like I was constantly thinking who to get what to do how to speak. Sometimes there's once on words in Morocco to meet someone and they can have ghosted me as soon as I got there. They will ghosted me because I turned up at one of the match. I've got the early so there was a a game before the Casablanca spiced by and I got there and the police immediately sold me kind of start questioning me. But oh the guys in the COF- soul the police talking to me and because they like intense police surveillance that was it it was it was not replied to go back to this day. I never got reply from any message. I've a right to them. So yeah it was. It was a hustle. But it was it was it was. It was the absolute best jams. You were talking about the doors that were open to you and one of the fascinating doors were open to you. Begins the chapter on the Italian ultras. And that's where you spoke to basically a lawyer for the ultra who represents ultras in. I think what we would call. Are We know as football banning orders? Yeah he was a former ultra himself. H. E. leads teach us. I mean he was kind of entry into Rome There's this one of the reasons why I manage. Speak to so many people if you guys cup of ninety Martinez La Big Galaxy. Fine but is Italian. American speaks at five languages. He's stuck polymath on a polyglot. Like Superintendent it should be built. Rocket ships are often be obsessed with football fan coaches which is which is what he what he is and you know. He's family advice enrollment so we we went around and he could have found these people speak so one of them. I've never heard of Lorenzo. Before we went and him and he'd he'd broken his leg. I like the interviews While he's just cancelled as used a broken. His leg in a in a moped acts. Call the Roman things. You can imagine anything like it more if it was in black and white in his statue of the Virgin Mary. The helicopter company to me. I it was Yes this guy was to me. The bridge between what happens when you're not notre which basically you're always an ultra ultra sounds like a youth. See this is one of the biggest youth movements in the world and continue grew up on the AS Roma Fan on the curve sued in the study Olympic had seen grown during its heyday in the one thousand nine hundred ninety s and then what happens when you get too old to go you family Commitments you call him. Ocho trains to go beyond you know to go beyond support your team in a insane white twenty four hours seven days a week but when you when you fully ECON do it anymore. And if he can't do anymore there's lots of other things that probably court wrong in your life but you looked out quite good middle ground. Which was his. He studied Spidla. He became a lawyer and then he decided to dedicate his life to overturning defeated like the banning orders. They ate in Italy to deal with the Oakland in the metoo thousands because he arrested how unfair it was because he is completely arbitrary. Mean one of the big things out around the world kick against this police control then some Casey's you can see why this police control because there is this constant friction between the two groups and you know the ultrasound They on they on angels they. This is a subculture that kicks against authorities of course authorities get a is gonNA kick back but still that doesn't give the police the Roy or the authorities royds put these autism place with there's no judicial oversight there is a human rights issue and he picked up on that and now that's his job that's what he does he's facing This little firm represents lawyers older ultras all around Italy from rival firms. Ultras groups can of overturning this these defeated because you know this original the original sin was him having in the first place so it was he was a fascinating character. Oldest two hours again in in his hospital bed these leg could a wingstop and And that to me you know that was. That was a good opening. That's a good opening place to understand Sorry Andrew Code across you just a just on one thing. They're JEN's we see this kind of a very solid framework in terms of. Let's just say Rolm politically speaking. We say lots your fire right there Mussalini supporters and roll. Na are are communists are left wing but it's much more malleable than that and it. It seems to change over the decades in the book it does and I think the identify if either guys afraid I mean Frankie full David go blots Simon Cooper these guys in I one of the Detroit to realize as well as these guys have been writing about the idea of football stadiums and terraces being really reflection of society or at least a certain structuring society and Italian stadiums. He's a brilliant example of that I drove is probably the best example you can give because yes the reason why that that political I think the exists is because let's fan base was representative kind of slightly out of suburbs Rome. That was much more right wing. But the inner city areas of Rome were bastions of the Communist Party could have ultra left-wing so when those groups arrived in the Curva sued. You know they. They took the names of of of of leftist political causes the days the feds. Ie for instance which is one of the one of my one of the main. You know stat. Surname was taken from from the Palestinian liberation struggle over the nineteen seventies which is a massive co celeb- for for the for the left of that time. But what happens? It's any changes changes. The inner city of Rome changes immigration becomes a much bigger. Political ISSUE IS EXPLOITED. And so those as as you know the fall of communism communism and socialism becomes a fall less popular political identity. You know then changes it moves right. Woodson roads and Roy. And then what you find. Is the Rowing Club? Cover sued then changes right with as well so now when you walk into. I mean you find. Left-wing rugby found a couple of left wing. Let's coaches as well. I mean they. They keep themselves themselves. But you know you find them. But what's interesting is is actually how similar these these two groups politically are I you know another thing. Is that the control so much that they don't really meet in the same way anymore Fly in the same way. Italian football is a very different place. What it was in the eighties and nineties even though TV companies love to make it. Look like it's you know pyro wooden drums. You know and Cappos but it has been you know they've kind of legislated the lifestyle of it but yeah it's that's that's something I know. It's almost in every stadium around the world is even in La AFC. You know the the the stadium. The Stein's presents the community comes from ends and to me find that I find that endlessly fascinating James One thing. I've always wondered about with some of these groups. The people within an ultra group. Do they love soccer? Like to a man or do they just kind of loved the culture that they're a part of I. A survey of both to be founded the further down the could appear maids. The goes you have the CAP. It's all put your foot soldiers below them. The the the ranking fall right in the ultras movement absolutely live and love that scene like religion. You know fought for it. Shed Blood for it. I just for the team but for the concept of having a subculture the is is outside of To control you know they will fight almost sometimes to the death to protect that and that is you know it's route that something that is based on an absolute love for. I mean in Italy case. Love Your belltower. You know. It's a love your city in your town but it's that team that really takes in without love so yes the root of it is but why found is the more that I spoke to people. Higher up the organizes the founders. You know. It's actually surprised how little they liked or enjoyed football. I'm how little they knew about football. And then you realize it. Wasn't you know people were attracted to it as well? Not just because of the football. They're attracted to it because they needed to be attracted to something they needed to be part of a game and it's the funding identity direction. Something that gives it gives them some hope in their lives And so it could have been a biker gang. It could've been you death metal. It could have been any any kind of graffiti. Could be any kind of subculture but they found themselves in in the ultras and I mean a family in Italy except I would often. I asked everybody basically the same question. Which is how do you define Notre Everybody struggled with it. Everybody like you can have a slightly different officer. You know d like lovable. I mean I remember when our all star Bollock they. He was like to be honest. I couldn't tell you if I play on. My I mean to Fahey being banned from the stadiums. Watch TV but then you know you come across someone like at the end of the chapter on Italy. I Il Botch WHO's the leader of Atlanta Ultras Then then it made sense to me before they lose all this stuff about crime in the connections of the fall right and then he may in Bochum who's probably the purest for the platonic ideal of a of a of a cafo. Who just has lived lived just to give his team. You know the the boost it needs from from the Stein's but also turned realized that the ultra still have a role to play in improving the lives of the people that are attracted to that subculture. So whether that's could. Have you know helping out drug addicts campaigning? To the homeless sickle is be banned from stadiums to twenty years. Now confront it off and so but there's every game in Bergamo you see graffiti you know free bought. Sure they have like twenty thousand people marched to let him to come back to the stadium so he's kind of like a folk hero in that town. So yeah I it's. It's you know there are people that made you question like why. B- vote in this but there are others. That's that's why I'll do it if I was if I was in. Burgum oh I would have followed that. The terrorist is no doubt about James. I'm in the midst of the chapter on Serbia and Red Star Belgrade in particular which which again so fascinating to me and actually is helping me understand the collapse of the former Yugoslavia. In a way that a lot of books haven't been able to do but one thing that comes through. Is that the defense in the seventies and eighties offer at starbucks grid. That will go on to to be alturas. They were influenced by English culture. And there's a there's a couple of moments I think it's with hijacks pledges well earlier in the book where they talk about certain English influences coming into their realm and them. Adopting them on my question to you is. Why has an English football reciprocated? There doesn't seem to be an ultra culture in English. Football and one of the reasons is because I mean we did have an indigenous fan coach. That was kind of a distillation away. I'll get tonight in a second but you know we had our hooligans and when you go I mean living in Belgrade's one of my good friend suggests that every single book this being written like there's a whole genre I'm not talking about among the thugs but there's a whole genre of like like excavate liked firm leaders who've written Barbara of all the up safe had around England's in the seventies nineteen thousands of books of them. You know they're not in Serbia. They're not kind of like translating. Can a Multi Mitch to translate those books? Because they sell well people love. That kind of stuff is bright. English hooliganism is still to this day. Still an extremely influential thing and I tried to watch expanding. The book is that ultras. It's not just Italy. I mean before. Then you had the office and the Tosa in Brazil and you had the hooliganism hooligans in England as well and so in a way. The fashion achieves as organization the LINGUA FRANCA. The psalms the PYRO. All these things get mashed up from all of them so the English British detox. This thing that was very well respected in this cross polarization because of globalization that gets sped up because it technology over the years but then what happens in England is that we have a series of stadium disasters hooliganism's out of control but we have We have Heizo. You know which which leads to British English teams being to the banned from European competition. Then we had hillsborough which has nothing to do with hooliganism by the police You know find some Liverpool campaigned tirelessly for decades to get justice for the people that were killed there It was the stadiums are in a really bad way. The police were treating people like animals. It's something has to change and so the that followed hillsborough basically ended. Everything it was known is no way that the that coach or that can have a more to the fan. Coach is rooted in the terraces that Get close to the community. That couldn't really survive that interest. Then you had all seater stadiums you had pre ticket prices going up cheaper priced out the game you know. It became mortgage payment product than it was a game. What was interesting. Is You know the reason why these fine culture exists everywhere will have addicts is because it was a space that people could could You know colonize. You can't do that in an seat to say you can't do ask candlestick but this kind of parks exist. No no no. We can't definitely can't do it there. But I'm just trying to think of American like Baseball Stadium and it's not a spicy. Could go and you know. Have a kind of like a sub coach there where you're kind of in control of your stadium. You know it's you know your ticket is your seat number and not say even by beard he come back and so added Off The hills burn off the start the premier league in tighter fool in everything that happens with English football there is no space fill subculture like just to come in and influence because if you look at Germany like the ultras come in and actually. That's what happened. They still space. They had a very hooligan influence seen until the late nineties. When people started watching Syria are free to heirloom German television and they thought coping and so now they have an ultra scene because they had a space that allowed it to develop whereas we never had that at. And what's what's most interesting. I think there's two things. He's the one who is English. And there's no chapter on hooligans in this but they are constant thread through the book is still hugely influential amongst youth around the world. I mean don't if you've ever watched green street sometimes called spree street hooligans which kind of people make a joke about it in England because it's Elijah Wood is could've American. Who was time you know people who are high? That's funny but in Indonesia. It was like it was a documentary to them. It was you know the funny thing I'll say about this as well as the the authorities a Salih almost every country that you know. The authorities struggled to control these whether it's the battle whether the the ultra wherever whichever group is they try to control they look to England as that's what we have to do. That's what we should do. That's how we cut this out. We follow that off. So it's Yeah. It's a complicated issue. But it's one like you do not coming into in England very much lower lower leagues. This is a big group in a celtics will space in Scottish football. So you very much in English thing but yet some said we had a very different circumstance could have means so possible for for fancying in talk. Division Put Down Roots in the same light. James One more from me. Your we talk about your travels for this. Were so extensive. Your access for this book was unbelievable. I'm just wondering you know you're running with some interesting characters here in the process of writing this. Did you ever have a moment where you kind of took a step back? And we're sort of thinking. I don't know if I should be here right now. There's a couple of women that was the end those in Indonesia. I was traveling across Java with the Osiris full procedure which is the biggest savings. Carter and those like an administrative mix-up from coach. We had to get off on the highway. We ended up getting chased by from Gaza. Michetti off is one of those. Yeah I arrived in the in the last chapter. Which is like. I'm like four thirty nine forty now so I'm about to hit forty running down an unlit highway somewhere. Between in the middle of JAL with fifty people. Screaming is terrifying. I'm just thinking like Kombi. Large icon die here. I like to I actually. You know thought there's no way out. Because they were chasing behind in a group came in front of us. So we're we're blocked I that we ended up getting out of it but I it's just like I was thinking about how his one thing saying? You go to war or daddy was a soldier. Always a war correspondent like fighting the good fight until the truth that what was happening around the world is a different thing to say you've been hacked to death on the side of a motorway by engineers Notre Like was that about. I saw that I mean quite quite interesting people in Ukraine and spent time with ultra sane. Was I mean it's ready connected to the fall roy? So Tom's spent a Lotta time around people who had very extreme views because you know out traditional centrist. They're you know they're they're they're on the fringes in we there's one instance Voted the or went to as an observer for the arranged fighting seen in Sweden and this is another thing that's the kind of like a subculture on the fringes of ultra culture. Is that there. There are literally thousands of people every weekend across your meeting up. In these highly organized fights in forests in forest clearings like away from the police even numbers. Ten hundred hundred. No weapons people like properly hinch. They're working out like the monsters. You know based out of ultraviolet very seeks very difficult get gave in I. I get involved in Sweden. But the other side didn't turn out who's be a seventy seventy brew up so the leader just like okay. Let's go to where they all and so we ended up and say you know ends up in a riot outside the pub Which was the police turnoff? I realize I'm not kept running away from the police. Because how am I going to explain that? So these the police that like. Oh it's not something you can pull the ripcord out in. Say A guy you know. I'm ready to leave now. Eat ME UP SCOTTY I it was. It was impossible so there were quite a few. I there many of those moments and they've made a few in my work can something that I I see it but I said to somebody else before but one was i. I read that maybe want to do this. Kind of stuff was homeys colonia but Joel and not necessarily do in that way immediate short in the neck. I WanNa try to avoid that as much as possible. He was. You know if you WanNa if you wanna find out about something about it then you've just go you just go throw yourself into date by saying that. I'm not sure I kind of do that Like old of my nine lives are up so I mean again. We're in the middle of pandemics. Maybe ninety decisions being taken out with me my go-to Rodney blogs about either no type seats or some ignite well jams thank God for the warm corporate embrace of L. AFC which which kind of saved you. From what I mean I love the AFC. I mean it was. It was at the end of this. You know I it. It was it. Been EXHAUSTING EMOTIONAL WRECK Arthur. Lots with my family have seen I I chose. Nfc Immune Club. And I was interested. How how you feel like an coach for nothing you know and you know American Fan. Cultures Sane is really plastic in in In Europe especially I I knew about it especially through Martinez and weed seen Atalanta. Sorry sorry I always Lines of mixed up. And you know I knew. Things are happening Clubs Athletic Club a guy that I knew Bradley from a going to Egypt and seeing him there and you can call well so sick night Bubka common. He could have put me in touch with a couple of the guys in the family. As on scene and to be honest it was like it was just incredible. Being bad you know they build something very real. You It was much enjoyable than guy in watching. English football match almost anywhere and it was you know is it. I'd seen it's a very patriarchal seen organize fan coach around the world. You know you don't see very many women it's particular diverse bunch you know. It's mainly can could've could've white working class men pretty much and this was. This was a place. Yeah overseas has strong light next feel to it but not just I mean the future right. I mean every every nation is there and so that's reflected in three to five to is I for me. The the best of it was. I mean I was there when they had a pride Stefo. Which would if try that at like Shalva. It'd be. I mean that from the bottom the stadium from the air. You know so You know they had that. And but the only that women in the Catholic Female Capos wanting particular member speaking to breezy. Who is just I mean? She's I mean she was taking up on it and she got into the cage and she was like I like fifteen foot like a Colossus. I and so it was like okay. This is this is one way we can. You can mix a Much more cooper environment than in Europe. But you can do that in a way. That still has some integrity. A Germany's no surprise that they look to Germany and Russia Influence from my experience in kid if they can maintain that you know I always keep an open that same Baha James Monarchy One. Three one two among the ultras. The explosive inside story of the world's most extreme fans is out nice being out for a few months oversee through the pandemic by there's going to be. Us Edition. I hope coming out in the full as well like well this is. This is a so-called I'm glad you're safe from having written the book from the current situation right now that we're all dealing with Thanks so much James. This is great appreciate appropriate anytime our thanks to James. Oh my God. What an incredible experience. Just the writing of this. This book was for him. My Sony. I only got the book yesterday so I. I flew through the chapters the initial chapters. I've read the Italian chapter. Which is stoning and the Serbian chapter is so so interesting. As I mentioned we didn't get to talk about fully about it but mean you are always saying how the break-up of the former Yugoslavia is something that we're not quite one hundred percent shore I would game. But when he discusses the I guess Yugoslavia before the war in terms of football and find culture. Your kind of breaks it down a little bit in that explanation on. I kind of understand it a bit worn up. Well historian about his experience in Indonesia being chased by people with machetes like this is the research that went into this was he's. He's clearly an authority on this topic. So Yeah Great. Stuff from James Gladis He's doing well. That's about it for me. Though the only other thing I wanted to mention something I just saw before we started recording tonight. That was once again. I don't know what category this goes under other than just like a weird few months that continue to go on at Tottenham a story tonight that Daily Allie was robbed at knife. Point after thieves broke into his home. In the early hours of Wednesday morning stealing thousands of pounds worth of jewellery of Tottenham midfielder was at his north London residence isolating from the Corona virus pandemic with his long-term his step and his girlfriend. Another friend is is leading with them. A scuffle ensued after two. Two men armed with knives entered the property after midnight. Police said a man in his twenty's believed to be. Allie was struck in the face and suffered minor injuries before the robbers took various items including expensive watches prior to fleeing alley has gone on social media and thank people for their support that it was a horrible experience. But everybody's okay for now just a little bit shook up but Jeez what a what a terrifying. Terrifying happened Gladis. Okay yeah and I got. Sounds like opportunists sued. I Guess Planet realized that things would be quiet during the lockdown. That's weird to me. Like you say opportunists but so when I I used to have a police officer who lived a cop who live next door to me and he was talking to us about how most how most robberies occur during the day because that's when robbers they they usually don't want an any kind of counter they just want to like get what they want to get and get out. He said when robberies happen at night. Those are the ones that that you have to be scared of more because that's when the burglar pretty much knows someone is going to be home and they're crazy enough they just don't care. Are they knew who was there? And they had enough people that they knew they could deal with it on overpower them. Not Study Scary. It's really scary. One thing before we get out get who's been watching the last dance on. Espn a net flicks. No did you see what he said about it. Now don't care you relates to Jordan. He's now he said something like now. People know what it is to work with a winner. You can either handle it or not. Yeah Okay Yeah I don't get that. When are you going to say a winner but not exactly a leader soul? Am The Manchester evening. News tweeted this out. Only GonNa Solve Shar on the last dance. It takes me back to when I was a player on the team. What Sir Alex Michael Jordan as a leader you think Roy Keane straightaway so many similarities to my see to my to my team seeing that team on I just I'm like okay all your other pages me now. I said there's two weeks ago last week was like the Roy. Keane episode it. Wants the bearing of the grudges. No men in the history of sport have borne grudges longer and harder than Roy. Keane and Michael Jordan like Jordan with who was at Bj what was his name. Ej Armstrong. He had stuff with Steve. Steve Kerr the face right on and I just think of Roy Keane. When he's asked to do a piece of analysis on Carlos Queiroz on the rainy team during the World Cup. What does he start talking about? He starts talking about the time. When Queer was coach at United that he threw him up front and didn't show any respect and he brings that grudge straightaway the similarities between these two men. We have to get them in a room. I was thinking we get them in a room with the Unfortunately we can't do it now. But with the dearly departed Jerry Stiller. I'm we have an airing of grievances. Yeah that's amazing. Oh good for you. So you were on this Speaking of which by the way I also saw I saw Gary Lineker. Jj had a a stream of tweets about his run in with Michael Jordan wants. I'm trying to find it here but I guess Jordan and a bunch of friends were in England and wanted access to some golf course that Gary Lineker was a member at so somehow Jordan got in touch with Lineker to get him in and so they all wound up playing around a golf together. It was it was a pretty cool pretty cool story. He goes through it. If you find it on his twitter timeline he kinda runs through like the sequence of events and just how cool Of An experience it was so. Yeah Pretty Neat so sad that there's only on Sunday is it for last. It's aimed me for the last five weeks. Jaba one of my one of the most interesting stories in all of sports is the subject of one of their upcoming for documentaries thirty fraternities and that's Lance Armstrong who. I just can't get enough really all. I've read so many books about him. I read his book. I've watched everything of documentary. That's their about him including the give me one. Which right now is on Netflix and available and not as the seminal account of of Lance Armstrong's Times and in some cases crimes. I suppose incredible. I'm really looking forward to the Armstrong documentary or good stuff. I'm looking forward to some Bundesliga. This weekend should be a a great time like I said. Just check out on your you know one of the best ones F S. Twos for games because they're becoming fast and furious. Hey this was fun man to you. I say check you later. Phone boy is good listening. Caught Offside suckered podcast.

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