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The ousting of Kim Darroch and Corbyn's latest travails on anti-Semitism and Brexit


This Financial Times podcast is supported by capital. One capital one is re imagining banking by offering accounts with no fiercer minimums that can be opened from anywhere in five minutes capital one. What's in your Wallet Capital One N._A.? Hey welcome to politics and weekly discussion on what's happening in Westminster from the Financial Times. I'm sebastian pain in this episode. We'll be discussing Kim gate the leaked cables ensuing diplomatic row the costs Britain's ambassador the U._S.. His Job plus tells us about the impending Boris Johnson government and how he'll be treated by the civil service plus. We'll we digging into the B._B._C.'s latest expose on Antisemitism in the Labor Party on whether the so called for m's of on Jeremy Corbyn losing that grip on power. I'm delighted to be joined by our political editor. George Parker columnist Robert Shrimp XLII White Wpro edited James Blitz and chief political correspondent Jim Picard were also allies to welcome Special Guest Bronwyn Maddocks director of the Institute for Government think-tank. Thank you all for joining and if you find yourself liking this episode of F. T. politics than do subscribe through all the usual through channels to receive it every Saturday morning. We also do like a good positive review until last weekend. Kim Dalek was the relatively unknown British Ambassador to the United States that Oh chain following the explosive release of confidential essential diplomatic cables that expose all top on buses private views on Donald Trump's celtic whitehouse on troublingly some details of relations with Iran a diplomatic row broke out with Mr trump blasting both cirque him and Theresa May in very personal terms then after growing pressure boss Johnson failed to defend him his position became untenable and he resigned on Wednesday Stooge Park. Let's go back to the publication of those cables last Sunday in in the Mail on Sunday the story was Isabel shot a prominent brexit tear journalists who put this out down the story was very much painted as here's our civil servant Lifelong Career Mandarin putting forward his views on the trump White House else which were not particularly friendly and the vow became more about the leaking of it than what they actually said Yeah. I think that's true I think initially there was a few in the Foreign Office that this might be containable as a story they got wind of the fact that Mellon Sunday was about to break the story on the Friday calls were put into the White House in the State Department and obviously it was hugely embarrassing problematic but they thought they might be able to contain it but a couple of things happened. The first one was the way the melon Sunday treated the story was very much focused on the individual himself succumbed Eric Eric was our man. It wasn't just about the cables it was about him. Personally and in the eyes of Brexit is at least the embodiment of the troy you establishment elites and all the rest of it and the second thing of course was the way that Donald Trump subsequently reacted wants the tweets were put out there criticizing succumb building up the crescendo where he called him a pompous fool and all the rest of it then it became very different for stay on but initially there was a view in the diplomatic community in London in Washington. It could be contained James Blessed. I said this was quite unprecedented. Because the cables booze went back two years whoever leaked this and we're still none the wiser about where this really came from although there's a general sense in Westminster that wasn't a spy that wasn't necessarily a foreign agent involved there was different levels of classification some some of it was what you might call political gossip about who's up and who's down in the White House but there was some more classified things as well made the league all the more troubling. Yes I think unlike leaks of the past this was actually a sustained operation by the person or the person who carried it out on the one hand you had what are called diplomatic telegrams written by sock'em which have a very wide circulation across Whitehall gang up to around a thousand people possibly go to most departments just to inform form people on what the British ambassador's view is on the U._S.. In terms of all the issues that affect will departments but then there was a more specific group of what are called diplomatic letters or emailed letters which would have gone to a much smaller circulation of people maybe only five or ten even smaller than that and there are a couple in particular which had very small circulation indeed and where I suspect the focus of the inquiry will be there have been leaks before and sick himself was leaked back in two thousand sixteen. It's not unusual but the scale and intensity of this and coming at this particular moment and the reaction from president trump on the lack of proper response from Boris Johnson made this something completely different scale will bomb and maddox when this row I broke out. Everybody seemed to rally around Kim's position saying you know the fault was on the leaker not him he was doing his job as a British diplomat to be honest as he saw things and you heard eventually Jomie Hunt Kevin Batman in fairly strong terms that was described as his love actually moment about that moment in the Richard Curtis film where the British Prime Minister's speaks up against the U._S. president but then things started to turn as Brexit of said well in fact this. Guy Is just not delivering the best interest of the British state and he's not really close enough understanding trumpworld yes though I think the reactions in the beginning was slightly more mixed. The new said Jeremy Hunt Foreign Secretary in the beginning distance himself a bit from the remarks and said. I don't share those views about the U._S.. Then as the heat began to rise he did rush to embrace Kim Darken set look. I stand behind him as Foreign Secretary I think what is significant is I. I the League yes have been leaks before but we are in very politicized times. We've seen all kinds of ways leaks in the cabinet and so on with people feel legitimized by the strength of their convictions that the view on the outcome of Brexit is right right and someone else is is completely wrongly legitimized to break convention rules. Even perhaps the Official Secrets Act. We have to see what the exact circumstances this league were in order to get what they want in order to get their view out so I think there was a tone around this that matters and it matters how that leak is pursued and then the second thing is that Boris Johnson in particular did not stand behind Kim dark and Boris Johnson is as we know they front run out to be the next prime minister and that seems to me immensely damaging because the civil service has been taking a lot of heat over brexit. It has really been required in what you might call. A vacuum of political leadership to this is the way we're going to keep producing solutions knowing that even though they're giving their best advice one side or the other is bound to disagree very very strongly and Theresa May was trying to bridge all sides this service called on video solutions that sometimes it may well have found close to implausible and so they've been put in a very difficult position and now you've got trouble next prime minister not backing up a very very senior civil seven but saying it is more important to the country that we get on with a notoriously thin-skinned president who doesn't like any criticism of him a tool than that I stand up for the institutions of this government and I think that is very damaging. George what was the kind of moment that can decided to step out of this because initially as we said Theresa he's a make did rallied pretty stony behind him although she didn't appear publicly until Wednesday accused by which time he'd already handed in his notice but it did seem as if he wasn't going to go and the sense that we got from speaking to people who knew his thinking was that he actually felt it would be a really bad precedent if he resigned. What was the crucial thing? Do you think that changed his decision to actually decide. You know what I'm just GONNA walk away from this thing we are right on the Tuesday. We were all asking the question is Kim going to fall on his sword. <hes> one of his friends said I don't know whether Kim possesses a sword but if he has he won't fall on it because it was a terrible precedent and just twenty four hours later that's exactly what he did so what changed the interesting thing was that he was determined to stay was being encouraged by the Foreign Office to stay the the cabinet met on Tuesday. They censor unanimous message of support to him. The Prime Minister sent a note to succumb telling him that he enjoyed her full support. I think he realized that things were getting very tricky once. He'd been disinvited that dinner at the White House president trump was attending for the emir of Qatar it was then blocked from attending a meeting at the White House with Liam Fox the trade sector who was meeting Ivanka trump the president's daughter and it was clear that there was another meeting with Wilbur Ross which was also going to be canceled so he was starting to consider whether this this was a sustainable position and he was mulling this during Tuesday blamed told the final factor and it was a factor but not probably the only factor. I think it's fair to say that was Boris Johnson's performance in that televised debate on Tuesday nights on T._V. succumbed didn't watch the debate. I'm told that he was giving a full account of how it transpired and Father Boris Johnson's Bromo Saint didn't give him his full support or indeed any support at all and I think he decided that evening that he would quit a telephone's Simon Donald the permanent secretary of Foreign Office early the next morning <hes> about four o'clock in the morning Washington time he got very much sleep and then finally confirmed that Theresa may later that morning so in that T._V.. Debate jomie hunt came out in very strong terms saying <music> absolute has my backing he can stay as long as he wants and trying to push both Johnson into giving the same kind of reassurance and boys in typical boy style us lots of fluffy language and said I and I alone will make the key decisions but he didn't say hey. I'm fully behind Sa- came down and said that we must have close relations with the U._S.. And ever since then boys has been trying to spin it in a very different way saying that though I often my personal support to Kim I spoke to apply for leave but you know you can't have off the decisions made no not in power but do you think boys knew what he was doing them in that debate if he did. It's a regrettable decision. They suck through the question about this at the House of Commons on Thursday the share anger in the House of Commons on all sides lights and dismay that someone who was going to be probably the next prime minister had a choice between standing with a British diplomat undefined that we'd sent abroad to represent the country or siding with the American President he went with the American president. I think Boris Johnson quickly realized that he probably forty misjudged the mood his team admit that he could have been clearer which is code for he screwed up and since then he's been trying to repair the damage there anything I would say this is not going to make all that much difference to his prospects of becoming prime minister because a most stories of already voted and. Be The question of the face of ambassador in a distant land is not high on their list of concerns. James Attention has now turned to who is going to be the next ambassador an easy going to be a career civil servant in the vein of succumbed out <music> all given everything we've seen when Bush Johnson becomes prime minister will he want to political appointees that somebody who is not trained in the phone service but speaks the language of trump's speaks the language of brexit would seem to be the master with getting. I'm from Mr Johnston Dot TV debates and of course his already been named in circulation because the ad the complication of this whole story SA- Kim was due to retire next year anyway and we'd been told that he was either GonNa go in January which is when his four year term camp <music> all at the end of next year which would have been after the next presidential election. What have you been hearing on there? I think it's very difficult to say because events have taken everybody by surprise I mean the first question is is there any chance of Theresa may actually making the appointment herself in in the final thirteen or fourteen days then you might see it wouldn't be a bold move because in the end you'd be appointing an ambassador to Washington who might or might not have the premature Boris Johnson and I think that would be an extremely risky thing to do. I mean somebody might be up for it possibly but that would be a difficult thing. I think what Boris Johnson needs to do is reflect on the arguments generally that Bronwyn has been making because the most important thing about this whole affair is not as Georgia said the impact on the leadership collection and it's not in fact in many ways on U._S. U._k.. Relations which will go on as a very deep relationship it is on this relationship between political masters and the Civil Service and that has been terribly damaged and there is the deep lack of morale inside the civil service and I think the question now for Johnson really as if you go down this road of making a political appointment to Washington somebody who goes against the grain of what the civil service might want you are going to do more damage and there are other appointments as well just to widen this out which will really define whether he's going to work with the civil service or wants something much more brexit he radical those two other appointments are governor of the Bank of England. That's the key appointment coming up which will define what kind of attitude he takes to the civil service on the institutions and the cabinet secretary the has been a lot of bad blood with mark said we'll the cabinet secretary and the head of the civil service if he were to make a very preemptive move against said we'll move him out he really would be breaking a lot of the institutional atmosphere we have in this country and that's actually something we had heard before this route that before the league cables those already some vague plans in place to move to a place of Kim at some point next year Butman John to pick up on that aware this is going to leave the relationship between the Johnson government and the civil service. You know he's going to become prime. Minister probably in two weeks time and at that point it's going to quite hostile for him that when he arrives given how he acted in the TV debate his comments regarding the whole data cafe and his views on Brexit of course because he's played alot like many other breakfasts blaming people like olive opens Mrs Maes Chief Brexit Negotiator for the failure to get a deal that could pass the House of Commons. I think it matters enormously and this isn't just about the Boris Johnson government from Labor waiting in the wings a lot of very direct comments particularly from John Donnelly Shadow chancellor about how he would like to break the treasury up reeducate many in the treasury a new kind of economics the whole relationship between government and the civil service is if you'd like in play in a way that I think is potentially very damaging for the U._k.. That you could turn this make as to say look our prime minister needs in some key positions someone who is on his or her side who really gets what she's trying to do and speaks to that program and is an advocate if you like not just a neutral public servant. I don't think the ambassador to Washington is one of those even if you bought that argument and bondage I don't the ambassador to Washington is there to do what Kim dark was doing and it's easy to forget in the U._k.. That the president isn't everything an awful lot of trade. Deals are done is done on Capitol Hill with Congress and some of the most effective use ambassadors. I've seen have simply when the U._k.. Working Day has ended slogged up to Capitol Hill and sat outside Senator's offices waiting Info the audience knowing that that's how you get British influences well so I think we could and should have tufted out and I think Johnson needs to pivot as we have seen Johnson do before in some circumstances and repair relations with the civil service in order as you're saying to uphold these institutions to make clear that he understands the principal and yes as you're saying incidentally to get his administration off on a smooth footing and a question for you on James. Do you think there's any chance we're going to head towards politicized politicize either diplomatic service all civil service that there's been this argument around from some this week that in this brave new world we're about to enter in fact what we do need people who take a much more politically ruthless approach to doing that businesses opposed to the British tradition of having political civil servants who are permanent they don't change with the government of the day you can as I said possibly make an argument that in one or two posts a prime minister needs deserves such. Dr Person and for example one of the names that has been around for Kim darks success might be Liam Fox now the trade secretary so that would be a political flavored appointment. I think it would be very damaging and that really begins to change the whole flavor of the civil service absolutely changes its morale but changes even more this relationship between the government and the civil service is a civil service there to stand up and give impartial advice particularly when the government doesn't want that and I think it's important that they do agree with. I think what I would add. Is that look you could conceive of moving to a U._S.. Style Spoil System in which the incoming government has its own people in the key civil service roles but that's a colossal change. I mean we have had the so-called Northcote Trevelyan in system in the U._K.. For about one hundred seventy years is in many ways the jewel in the crown of the British system of government and to start to carry out this change. This is the key point at a time of Brexit when the civil service is already and this is the point that isn't made in this discussion Russian under enormous pressure because of no deal with civil servants having been ramped up for a no deal Brexit on the twenty ninth of March then brought down again because we didn't have it now by Johnson government about to be moved back up to no deal on October thirty first potentially Ashley to then on top of all that start moving your own political people. It's too much I think he has to recognize that things have to be done carefully and I think there's a risk that you can actually do some quite serious damage if he tries to bring in too many political people. I mean the big danger the U._K.. Foreign policy is that it becomes all about trade because we need trade deals after brexit and so all kinds of other concerns which ambassador there to assess including human rights record golden on foreign governments all has swept aside and that would happen more quickly with political appointments and very briefly George One final question this is all about leaking and it's been a coach of leaking Westminster as long as anyone can remember but it's clearly escalated in the past six months to a year with the S._e._C. About Hawaii which was blamed on Gavin Williamson. The cabinet is leaking like sieve pretty much every week now when Boris Johnson comes in. Do you think you'll be able to reset that coacher. I think is unlikely the culture leaking think comes from two principal things one is the government doesn't have a majority. There's very little authority. The premise that doesn't really lead a government at the moment is listing and people feel emboldened to destabilize the prime minister and Cabinet government and the other thing is bruins mentioning A._M._c. brexit which cuts across everything and has broken so many conventions is Boris Johnson going to be able to fix that I think lessee quick repairs relations with a civil service so that you could find quite a few people they wouldn't say this of course public or maybe even privately. They'll be a lot of people. Let's get the other major story in Westminster. This squeak was Labour's late travails with brexit antisemitism a big B._B._C.. Panama expose revealed the extent which those around Jeremy Corbyn Open appeared to have interfered with the party disciplinary procedures regarding racism rumors have been around at least one of the crucial four ams around the Labour leader might be about to leave that position plus Labor took another slight right step towards becoming the party of the main in all circumstances now Jeremy Corbyn has said they will support a referendum unless there is a Labor government so jim cod. Let's just begin with the Panorama pogrom this week. This has been long anticipated depicted by Mr Corbin's inner circle and they've been very agitated by there's been so much pre briefing and warnings and some very expensive legal threats going out to these key labor officials who spoke to the BBC what was revealed in the Pogo that we didn't know before and what did you make of it so I think one thing that Panorama really succeeded in his that they managed to get hold of a vast number of former Labor officials so they had about twenty people spokesman they had eight former Labor officials of which seven had been in the party's he's complaints and Disputes Unit and the fads people space the B._B._C. in many cases breaking nondisclosure agreements was in itself quite a coup Panorama and what they said to some extent. We've heard some bit before so the fact that there was a huge increase an anti Semitic instance or claims of instant since Jeremy Corbyn became leader the fact that there was disagreement between the leaders office and headquarters and Victoria streets and there was some specific instances well which they reported on which don't necessarily look good for some of the people place to Jeremy Corbyn and is be a lot of reporting on how the Labor leaders office has allegedly interfered with these case before because there was a proper complaints and disciplinary procedure what the Panorama to me me seemed to show as well as the general overall atmosphere that has grown within the Labor Party was consisted that people are on Jeremy Corbyn didn't feel on this and they've always said that this was not the case they were always falling due process and having watched that program. I came away saying well. They they also didn't follow Ju- closest nature's really did whatever they wanted to do. Yep So one the accusations was the in lots of cases where that should have been automatic. Suspensions will narrow automatic that was advice from people around Cubans officer that should be downgraded to some kind of lesser slap on the wrist and then you have specific instance for example March twenty eighteen shameless Mellon. WHO's the dark communications written an email the disciplinary process antisemitism complaints should be reviewed? He said something's going wrong and we're muddling up political disputes with racism. I think going forward we need to review wearing how during the line and that basinas accenture intervention by some of the people in Victoria Strait Labor's been very angry about this claiming they've shot back and they said panoramic cuts out a line which specified that shame is known was talking about where we're accusing Jewish people anti Semitism in more than just a few instances then clearly something has gone wrong but bear mind. This was a few weeks before the Jackie Walker case where there was quite a few people source quite an open case Anti Semitism chucky Walker is Jewish. The points on making is that there are labour rebuttals for an awful lot of this and you get into quite tricky League award quite quickly on some of the so for example. The panoramic claim that the leaders office intervened the point Labor makes is that certainly on some of these instances some matthews he's he was the head of discipline had asked people leader's Office for their advice and so they're saying it's very unfair about to be twisted not way but don't get me wrong. The overall impression accurately given by this program is that a lot of people felt really uncomfortable an upset about interference what they saw as being the mind by the leaders office that much came across loud and clear whatever labour might say in that very complicated explanations for all this love it shows you what did you make the plug on the you've written before about labor and the growing antisemitism within the party and it was just astounding watching as well as all of the things that Jim talked about revealed about Mr Corbin's office at painted a very stark profile of how Labor has changed in the past four years for activists and the Labour Party's had a very strong tradition within the Jewish community in the U._K.. And very strong ties and I think what chemicals above anything else was that those ties have been completely ripped apart. Yeah I found it a very disturbing and distressing program. I thought there were a couple of dimensions mentioned with the really were rammed home to me. Jim talked about the Labor staff. What the program did also was interspersed those people with experiences of ordinary rank and file Labor Party members who were Jewish and some of the stories they've told about I would go to meeting my be called Jewish pig and all of a sudden it seemed okay to turn on me and atmosphere and I have to I've got friends and I've had relatives who described precisely these experiences to me at Audrey constituency party meetings so what you're seeing is a massive influx of people who initially because of their commitment into Palestine have just turned on any Jew who isn't ready to completely disavow the state of Israel and there's been an incredibly toxic air built up around these people and an influx of people who are very anti capitalist who see Israel as an agent of imperialism and who have a paranoid tendency in their approach? One of the guys who was interviewed talked about how at the end of interview conducted in Liverpool when he was doing a disputes case the party where are you from this book had the most British accent you could imagine where you from Ah from Israel and that's the Tennessee has come with a number of the people who flocked into the Party Sport Jeremy Corbyn because of his past foreign policy positions that was one thing I took from the program. The other was in the response of the official party after the program and advance the program being screened on this was very revealing because what it shows that leash it doesn't so much think it's got a problem with antisemitism as think he's gotTa pay our problem with antisemitism and it was all about winning the spin war against this and all of the Labor outright all the carbonite outright even all the media Powell's swamped onto to twitter to say how this program is outrageous and it distorted but the fact is even if you accept some of the arguments that were made by the Labor leader's office about things that were not fair in the program. Actually I think the point that Jim raised is a red herring because what do things we've got to protect our people in our Cuban out riding group but even if you accept some of those points it is impossible to watch that program not seeing that there is a real problem and that the leaders office doesn't actually care very much about it and the fun thing. I'll say I think about this. I think the point about the way the cartilage of Labor Party works that is completely committed to its cause and everything else is subordinate to that so whether it's accusations of antisemitism where there's accusations of sexual harassment the point is we have allies and we don't daub allies in that's the fundamental view and I think another thing that really came across in his promise that some of the foam stocks that have left the Labour party from stress as one is talking about having a breakdown and there was some matthews he was the head of disputes he opening saying that he considered suicide because the situation was so crave and there was a very unpleasant moment this morning I think on the B._B._C. where our own Bustani who's probably the most unpleasant of the corporate outriders who works for Navarro Media. He was suggesting that it was a very low. He's the word low to describe some Mattie saying he's felt suicidal about this and these were the people who back in two thousand fifteen talked about a kinda politics and they generally believed that they were the good guys and I do wonder whether they should be being that way too they should you this program and the whole coverage of the antisemitism issue. Yes you have raised questions about the so called for ems which I believe according to Wikipedia at least were first defined on this very podcast by yourself which are the people who are directly around Jomie Corbin who are propping up his leadership and in some way some say running running the Labor Party and it's not just the antisemitism it's brexit too because those four ems are very much against a second referendum and they've been under huge pressure this week because labor as I said before have taken a couple more steps towards being the remain party Yep so on the Anti Semitism issue SHAIMAA SMELL HITS head of communications was tracked into the Panorama programme also Jenny formby. Who's the G._M.? Executive Labor who's a close ally of Kuban. No question marks about how it looked in semi mouses. As if she tried to reconstitute some sort of disciplinary panel looking at the Jackie Walker case she says in her defense that there's no evidence that she was trying to repopulate this committee in the more Jackie Walker friendly way so this is an element of ambiguity there but yet advises round coping criticized by M._p.'s pilot of labor people for various things at Jeremy Corbyn does such as inverted commas turning a blind eye to anti semitism or his brexit stunts. There are questions on always things as to whether the advises all just reflecting the king in some respects we saw on brexit possibly a major developed this week regular listeners to this podcast should be aware that every time we think that been steps forward on Brexit policy. There's usually a step back at some point and but if you compare where Labor is now to where they were a year ago a year ago there was sucking on Smith as the shuttle New Orleans sexy for wanting a second referendum now we can see that they do want a second referendum on a Tory brexit deal and they want the second referendum in basically any circumstances the they've still left wide open and the reason why I find it a little bit surprising that lots of Europhile Labor impeded jumping up and down with excitement and claim to have one is that we still don't know what Labor's policy would be. If if there's a snap general election it's still open as to whether they would remain or whether they would be leaving if you look at Chula which is the general secretaries who had their own meeting on Monday and popped up with their own policy. The union leaders is still saying that if there's a general election we should have a kind of soft brexit brexit policy and then we decide whether we remain or leave when it came to Jim's favor metaphor of porn pushing macaroni up a mountain for Labor's Brexit policy has gone a bit more towards remain because essentially if there isn't a general election Labour's policies to back them back House of Commons motions and bills that would give a referendum now but if we do have an election this autumn which I think everyone now podcasting is very possible outcome then Labor would still be going into that as a brexit party. It's not going thing by saying. We need to get two thousand sixteen to Overturn Brexit. I need to start afresh so it's not going to help them win. Back the votes. They've been hemorrhaging to the Liberal Democrats. I'm not completely sure agree with that last point. I think that if you take a step back from this what has happened is fundamentally Labor has reached a place where it is inconceivable that it would face an election before brexit without supporting a referendum what we're not sure about is where they would be in that referendum oopsy. If they were to win an election they might attempt to negotiate a different brexit position but they were still put it to a referendum. I think that's the real advance. I think it's inconceivable that in any circumstance Labor will not be offering a referendum on a brexit deal if they get to power before brexit has happened where you're right overseas. What we don't know is whether they would be campaigning to remain Maine in the E._U.? Or campaigning for the deal that they had negotiated so I think there is a distinction but I do think that actually offering a referendum alone is enough to pull back some of the support they've lost to the Liberal Democrats and equally not committing to not having brexit of some kind or another helps them not lose too much more support to the brexit party so I think they're almost in the place where I think they were inevitably going to be. The point that year far Labor people who've made in this week is that they would be some included cruise five meeting where where all of the stakeholders Labor would gather to discuss what the election policy would be if a general election and they were saying the balance of opinion among M._P.'s crossroads constituencies union leaders. If you had altogether there's now an overwhelming waste in favor have remained position and therefore it's ludicrous to suggest that they would adopt appropriate position. The counter argument is that if there's a snap general election that might not be enough time for one of these meetings. If you look at twenty seventeen the close five meeting did not see happen because there was so little time and that's how they rammed through Andrew Fisher's 2017 manifesto which tends to be really popular with a lot of people but it was not put out the usual discussion of the entire Party and those the second times is wearing theory lend mccloskey and the forums the advises around Corden could still just about in theory come up with some kind of fudge by the way I think we're talking about the foreign it's worth making the point based on the Anti Semitism issue on the Brexit plsy is the absolute hegemony of the Unite Union in the late part in which about the people around the leaders office lend mccloskey is not she in the office the leader of Unite Jenny Foamy the general secretary his former partner. You have Andrea Murray who is chief of staff in unite and you have cary murphy very close friend of mccloskey so four of the five most important people around the lead essentially his Praetorian guard a not just like minded people but they're not union exactly and if you to believe the pulling of unite members there's a majority of unite members in favor of stopping brexit and remain but when the General Secretaries I've listened listens then then this and that's it for this week's episode thank you to George Robert Jacomb James Bond for joining in the meantime if you've liked what you've heard would like to see more journalism than do take a look at all the subscription office which you can find F. T. dot compost offer politics presented by me Sebastian pain by Anna Data and Salami policy until next time. Thanks for listening. Are you looking to achieve new educational and career goals in two thousand nineteen consider N._Y._U.. starnes master science in risk management.

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