EP80: Emma Hammett - Nurse to Online Course Creator
Uh-huh. I think it just helped to. It's just like you'll never get in perfect it you off forever striving for perfection. Then you will never do it. Welcome to escape the rat race radio. I'm your host Christian. Not well, MRs your ticket to a state the ninety five. Always be outer, I remember my, my cousin saying to me, hope, you know, Anna will anyone ever pay twenty-five course. Yes. More as well. There have confidence and faith in yourself, speak to other founding boards could very useful and listen to them as a reality check. But if you feel confident that it is right for you. Then do it. Hello, welcome to another episode over the rat race radio. My name's Christian Rodwell and today. I'm talking with Emma Hammett. The found of I eight for life online first aid dot com, and I ate for pets is an author press, spokesperson and expert on health, and first aid, she's also, the provider of a ward winning tailored, first aid training with thirty eight different online training courses available across her different businesses, and as here today, the ability to package, your knowledge into product, such as a book, or digital course, is a very powerful way to build your business, and your brand, and has never been easier to accomplish is today, thanks to the many different platforms that are available now before setting up her business back in two thousand seven Emma was working as a nurse in London before moving into hospital management, and, as you can imagine she was working long hours. And when it came to that time when Emma wanted to start around family, she knew that something would have to change will this led her to look at teaching all the skills that she already knew an after gaining her teaching qualification. She then had the idea to combine all of our knowledge and skills to launch an online first aid training business. So in today's conversation, you'll hit the ups and downs Emmerick counted as she launched her new business along with some great advice. If your currently at the early stages of planning, your own escape plan a, let's do this. Let's head on over to my conversation with Emma Hammond. Hello, welcome to the radio. How are you today? I'm fine. Thank you very much for fighting me, very welcome. I can see the glorious sunshine and blue skies behind you where in the world are you right now? I'm in sunny, ballum say southwest London. Just not far from me down, the road from me, so emigrate half you on the show today and Amelie looking forward to hearing your story. And I'm sure our listeners will as well and would you mind giving us a little bit background about your company, the current run and what involves on a day-to-day basis for you at the moment? Okay. So I run I state for life online. I ate dot com and I ate the pets, and I also have a social cause called stay safe and stay safe dot support, which might businesses enabled me to fund set up. So I take for life is practical first aid training. So. Just as jonelle the Red Cross, or other first aid training providers are able to offer except we're all medical health and emergency services professionals, so online. I dot com is allowing us to scales business that they are provided as blended learning with the practical training that will go to later and also online first aid training, so that we can sell internationally and that's been written by myself, and with, with the first aid experts and it to Naples, me scale, and I ate pets dot net, which is a brand new market. It's mainstream in the US, so since John on the Red Cross of a first aid to pets as born everyday offerings. It's a brand new mock in the UK. We haven't quite enough competitors to make it completely viable, but we have. The times newspaper coming to join us on Monday to come in bright above us, and we get quite a little, too publicity, because it's new and it's directly related to the state the humans because it's very, very similar and the same principles apply. So we've worked with vets to create those courses, and I have written books that accompany, the pet side and the human side. Very good. And if the business for for a number of years now, when was it that you set up two thousand seven so a low time we're well, established and would you mind sharing with our listeners what it was that you were doing before you started your own business? Absolutely. So I was unearth. So my background is nursing. I trained Thomas his eons ago, and I've worked all over the place in from burnt units to pediatrics to once with prison. And really joint my nursing, and then went into hospital management is a clinical manager, so I would Hammersmith insuring cross for ten years, and then children does up your career little bit. We do. Love them, though. So I became a niece ole teacher, so I gained a teaching qualification that I was able to use as well. And then I was able to combine all those things together and start up a first aid training business, which was something that always being passionate about doing so the k- there is you actually started. Right. You actually took is something so many, many escape race listeners. They are still currently employed. And on that commute everyday back and forth to work, and, you know, perhaps not enjoying the work as much as they could do thinking is, perhaps, greater things out there for them in life. So how'd you come about sort of making that decision? See new, you had a family on the way and things needed to perhaps change you needed bit more time. I'm presuming I'm sure it's very demanding job. But how did you just kind of figure out in your head, how you were going to transition from a monthly paycheck to actually generating an income from a business and you know what point did you say? Okay. Well, it's, it's the right time to make. The switch. I don't think there's ever a right time. So I think you just have to do it. It's just like you'll never get it perfect. So if you forever striving for perfection, then you will never do it. I think we'll always be out as I remember my cousin saying to me, hope you know, will anyone ever pay twenty-five pants for course site. Well, yes. And a lot more as well because we run very quality courses, and it will be viable business, and, and it will grow so have confidence in faith in yourself, you're obviously speak to others as sounding boards, 'cause ever useful and listen to the misery, -ality check. But if you feel confident that it is right for you. Then do it, and it will be hard work. So only starts up thing if you are passionate about it. I I'm a mental I will businesses through the. British library, and one of my first men tease wills who she called herself a serial entrepreneur, but actually, they hadn't screened properly, and she had lots of ideas that she never got any of them off the ground. So shouldn't have got in the process, and she wasn't possible to mental because the, the premise of what they are offering is that you have to have a viable business is actually, making some money or at least it's trading. So she thought she was a serial entrepreneur, but she was cereal dreamer, and as a big difference, and there's quite a few serial dreamers at their and the rule. So people actually go with it. And unfortunately, when you look at the statistics women, all statistically more likely to strive for perfection before we will launch, I think there was a study that said something night. Different market. But looking at the job market's, if a man applies if a women applies for job, and it has set criteria. They will only apply for the job, if they have all those criteria. They take all the boxes whereas a man will apply for the job, huge generalization. Hip a man will apply for the job if they can take sixty percent of those books as and I think women very often do over think it. And they do want to get up. And if you are over thinking all the time, you'll never do it. So do it. Get is good as you can get a Beata type, and go if you're still working in your business at the same time in your in your day job, then, that's what you have to do, but put that time to one side us you evenings manage your time differently. Make those extra hours create what you want to create and launch it. And then when you get to a point that you are making enough money that you can then leave your job. Then do it. And if you haven't got to that point, but you can see the potential, you might have to take the plunge anyway, because there will be some businesses, which you simply will not be able to grow. Whilst doing a fulltime job, it's not possible, because it takes a lot of time to get your business of the grand, so you might need to think of some financial bridging in order to get yourself so that you can still ache. Start it. Tell you agree there. It will be different for every person, right? You have to take into account your your circumstances. And as you say, you know, when you get rid of the job, you might not have quite the same amount of money, you might have to make some sacrifices. But if you're then going to have all that more time than is going to be the payoff that you're going to be able to then increase your revenue quickly that way. So one of the other things I'm interested to learn about from your Murray's, is really the proof of concept. So back in two thousand seven. How did you how did you validate your idea? How did you kinda says the market and prove to yourself that, yes, there are people out there willing to pay and what some of the steps that you took to, to go about that a bit of clear research? So there's a lot of people with great ideas and it easier if you start with a proven idea, whether our competitors in the market, so sip times when I'm talking to people, they're looking for that unknown exciting. Nobody's done it before. So there's got to be a market. Yes. To some industries that is right. But actually, very often for the maturity if it's there, isn't if there's no one doing it at their that may not be a market. All you have to create the market, and that's a much slower process. So that's what I'm doing with Dokes. It's a tiny market at the moment because it's a new online. I dot com. We were. One of the first to market we're in a very mature market, so do your research. Find out. It's so easy with online. It's so easy to, to Google to see different. Search terms, always somebody out, she looking for Hugh are likely to offer and if they're not looking directly because it doesn't exist. Are they looking for different things? The other asking the questions that your product or service console so that can let you have an idea as to whether there is actually a market is that is that sort of thing that you're looking at on this comes down to, you know, the, the argument over quality versus price and. Often going to shape that can that can bring it. So in problems. Roy. No, that's something you've addressed as well. Absolutely. That was some of the best advice I was given when I started by someone who said, don't go into cheap. I mean if you go in at the cheap end then generally, you're offering low equality. You're in more fickle market place where they will play you off quickly quicker against other competitors. Whereas if you differentiate on quality differentiate with a proper clear point of difference, then you're in a much easier marketplace to appreciated and you'll make it much easier for you. And if you start with your strategy, as a price base strategy, it's very hard to then move to a quality one. Was thinking very carefully what sort of market, you won't what sort of customers you want. So say I rule, you know you've got to be doing something passionate about. It's got it's going to be keeping you up at night. The idea of you escaped the rat race and you've got more time. You've go more flexible time, but actually if I go out. So if I take a day off and go and have a really nice day, and go and do I dunno suddenly in some holidays with my family? I then have to make that time that I've taken out. I'm probably were later in the evening or maybe work through some of my weekend because actually that time and the things that need to be done. Don't go away even with delegation and an an apportioning allot of the stuff in that something else, I feel very passionate about that. You can't do everything and you shouldn't be doing everything. People very often. Weekly when they start out think, well, if I'm not paying someone, then it's a saving, but it's not a saving. 'cause if you work out how much your time is worth based on what you're selling you'll sell oil product. Then you will soon. Find out actually your time is worth a lot more than the amount, you could be paying for someone to do your Adleman or take off take your your, your your, your banking type things, and we'll let the finance element away or some of the other type of tasks, which you can end up getting buried into and then you're not being productive because if you're training all the time. So all the different trainers bit your personal, trainers, or coaches, or whatever if you're at their training, then you're not there on the phone, and replying to emails, which is where your business is coming in. You can't be. Be in three places at once. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. We were having this conversation last night between in a circle mastermind group and talking about these ten dollar tasks like designing things online or creating a lead magnet to try and build your mailing list. And it's a ten dollar task that you could go to a website like five or outsource it somewhere, and it would be done in a day as opposed to you trying to learn some new software, or trying to be a designer when you're not a designer, and you're absolutely right. I think a lot of people at the beginning, though, will will question, and ask, well, if I haven't really got much money coming in at the beginning, how can I afford to outsource and have other people do these things for me? And that's a difficult balance isn't it is knowing when is the right time to start outsourcing. And when not any advice on that, I think you need to listen to your cell, and your family, because there are only so many hours in the day. And if you are. Stretching yourself too far into sin than you're not gonna be any good to anyone to your work or to yourself or to your family. So there are all sorts of ways as you said. If outsourcing I Mike graphic designer is important as areas so you can work remotely with so many different people. You can share someone to help with your admin but until you were happy and comfortable outsourcing, at least some elements, even if it's someone just onto your phone whilst you're training, you're not going to be able to scale knock-about grow. And until you are able to grow your actually know in business, you are operating a woman panned, which is purely training your time for money. They will deliver as well as you and they were to live differently, and you clients will like them and they will deliver better than new in an awful lot of ways, so until you're able to offer that. You can't scale I mean, somedays on inset days. We got a couple of I think it's timber end of August September. We've already got bookings for nine or ten trainers on one day. So I couldn't do that myself. There's no way. So if I haven't been able to offer that scale ability, yes, that takes time because he would quality trainers, because they're they're out there and they are being you and they're being the front of your business. So don't brush, in take kids steadily understand what your core values are. So you've got to be at a point where your businesses got an entity. So you are able to communicate clearly mission is your values and what you're trying to achieve so that you can empower somebody else to do that alongside you or on your behalf. And if you're in a. Business where actually, you know were. It is only use it can leverage it, and I knew some people are in that sort of niche business where it is then outsource everything else. You know, you shouldn't be fiddling with your receipts and things get a bookkeeper to do that for you. There needs to be somebody else they can be done virtually, and you can do it very cheaply. But again, go back to what you were saying about the ten dollar tasks go back look at your time, falure your time and make sure that you are able to bring it in less than you would be spending yourself. And also think of your sanity and the sanity if those around because if you are a frazzled heap your business isn't gonna grow, and there's no point in leaving the rat race. And sadly, that's why so many businesses fail in that first I five years, and so many people do end up going back to being employed again, which is very sad. Because if they go that passion and they want to make it all happen. Then they should be able to do it. But it just takes us thought process to understand what you're doing. Why are you doing it? Cain to rewind you back to that first year of your business. Artwork. What was some of the realize, Asians, and overstay your business? Looks very, very different today to how it looked then you've got many online trainings now. And back in two thousand and seven I mean we're probably talking about the launch of YouTube and Faye. These platforms were only just kind of become popular then so. How did how did it go that first year? What was some of the real realize ations that someone starting a business perhaps, doesn't think about until they're actually in the Fiqh of it. Well, there's also things that you can save money on so my initial logo was produced myself by word and looking back at it. It's not something. I'm proud of. And it looks much better with appropriate designed logo, which in my properly designed logo I did three nine thousand nine hundred nine but then if you used that again, it's a very cheap way of going forward, but you need some money in the Bank. I so we've never had external funding and I didn't want to external funding so any money we needed. I had to set it up. So. Initially were very creative, canvas, another great free much smarter. That wasn't available in two thousand seven of his magic canvas is just the most amazing. For it's amazing. And the paid one is worth going for as well. And but two thousand seven confident exist, it was what it was. Yep. No great. But actually got me out there. So. Then I'm trading. So I will I sat down really hard read my cost materials created it'll, and then I was ready to go. And one of the very first people are trained with Sarah beanie, that was likely nerve. Wracking. So I went along and then she wrote me, a really fabulous review Annan certainly on there. So she setting up a business. Surprisingly easy, it's, it's really easy. You go to companies house and choose claims fifteen minutes and your. You're in business. Wow. This is quite fighting, and then you choose your, your, your website, your trading trading name and off you go. Don't spend a huge amount on websites, initially you need. Shop window and it needs to be smart. But actually a good quality WordPress. One. You can probably get a very simple, but slick WordPress website, set up for not very much money. As is your shop window. I would say, don't cut corners on that, but also bisque extravagant. So just be frugal have a simple one with couple of pages. That's nicely set out and. And again, don't go for perfection. You need a short window, where people can find you, you need to work on your search engine optimization, which can to yourself. So if you've got a WordPress site, and again, I would say, don't go fanned alone, bespoke sites, get something like WordPress, because if it gets in any difficulties, or if you need new plug ins that you wanna put in, you can get that done for you very cheaply through five or through somewhere else. So if you could have WordPress site, you're keeping your options open. Whereas if you go for bespoke site, it's gonna cost you up front, it's going to become obsolete, and you got to be in the pocket of whoever's designed that for we forever for any changes. So what press you can do the simple chase changes yourself and he can prob- way, I would say it's worth going on a basic WordPress. Course yourself, which, again you could. Due line, so that, you know, the basics so that you can set it up, it user friendly, and then you'd go short window there, you want some business cards. So new is what us 'cause again, they're cheap and then nice to design, and they look slick, so whatever you want, you want to be showing people at chilly your bigger than you are. And please don't go round telling people, Loma new stole type. You'll say you're in pacis, you're doing a grand job, doing whatever you're doing, and you will always be very well prepared when you're straight client facing, and you will too absolutely spot on brilliant job. And all the little fancies about getting your logo perfect and things can be tweaked and changed when you more money to do it. Hey, it's Christian here and I'd like to give you the opportunity to download a free copy of my brand new book, sack your boss, the ultimate guide to scape- your nine five by visiting WWW dot eighty or Dr nine four slash sack. Your boss in the book. I share my own story of escaping, the rat race along with a simple five-step formula, which I believe, is the foundation, you need to have in place. If you're serious about staking the rat race within the next twelve to eighteen months. So head on over to WWW dot eighty Donlon poured slash sack your boss and download your free coffee right now. I'm sure you'll agree at the beginning. You just put out your your version one, right website, your logo even even how you describe what your business does is version one, and it's going to change so many times, probably over those first four months that, as you rightly, say, don't spend a lot of money because free months later, it's probably going to change anyway, and it should change because you will learn the whole point of being business being business doing business. Well is to get feedback from people and to learn and the whole beauty of being a small business is the we can move. So if things aren't quite what we would have a strategic plan. So have a strategy in place and have your clear objectives. But if things in the marketplace comes through, or for charities, come through big prepared to say. Yes. And be prepared to then think out of the books as to how you can supply wherever someone's gum. Grab those opportunities because they may not come again. So there's usually way if a big a bit of work comes your way, providing it's paying sufficiently eight make it worth your world. So be very careful with local tenders, because you don't want to lot of work ridiculous below cost very aware of your costs. Are to supply wherever your supplying bitter service or bid to physical good be very aware, your fix Costa, and. And. So that then you will sorting out. And if initially you not make a prophet. It doesn't matter so long as you're covering your costs. It might match if you're supporting your family in my situation, it didn't matter initially I had a little bit cushioning. And so I was able to work my way through. Don't don't offer free. There's if my online courses, I offer free because I've covered my costs, and I haven't got fixed cost to worry about. So I've got much more flexibility for your practical training or your coaching or whatever else you're doing. Particularly service-based people are really tempted to offer it for free, and I would urge against that because what happens particularly things like if you're setting up a children's activity, there's a culture, where leave to not as a whole lotta parents could actually go for the freebies, and they can take their children to lots and lots of different clubs, particularly in the likes of element Wimbledon and never have to pay and there's no loyalty there. So, you know, you can do other incentives, but people will always ask you to do it for free, and I would honestly say that people don't valley free. They've finally extra valley, they value different ways of doing it this way of them coming at a discounted price. Or giving them extra value on top, but free put you in the wrong marketplace, and it can it can come back and bite you off the bun on the bump, because people will expect it to be free again. All their friends will want it for free 'cause you did it for free for them. The only time I would recommend to, to clients I work with to do something for free is perhaps, in that very, very early validation stage just to do two or three to get the feedback and also to use as a testimonial and only just, you know, in that very instance there, but I totally agree that, when you offer things for free, you know, we're both authors, right? And if people want a copy of the book, you know, if you give it away at some of free chances are they're not going to read it because, as you rightly said, they just don't value. It actually I disagree on that. I do give my book away for two as well. But I don't think many people read it when they get it for free as opposed to when they pay for it. I can I think it depends why you've written the book, so I think your book can be your ultimate business card, so some here 'cause I've just got back from the Royal College voting on videos. Anyone listening to podcasts. Then check out the YouTube skied rat race because we're looking at the books right now. Okay. So if I give this to you because you're interested in you're interested in child, first aid, and I give this to you, particularly if you're say you're running a school. If I send this to you, it's going to mean far more than me, sending a business card. It, it actually says Gina, what there's some authority here. She knows what she's talking about. She's working with the child accident prevention trust. This was working with age UK, and rospa. It positions you and it depends. Why written your book for me? It was a positioning. And it was as I said to no thirty statement, and it's opened up a lot of those I have this for free in various promotions on my site where people can pay postage and packing, which covers my costs. And then sent it up for free for core clients, I will post a copy of. My. Yeah. My school's outpost, a copy of this ad with Brocha and it works. I think coaching a ten minute telephone fact-finding, call is absolutely valid. And essentially really good way. But sometimes people attempted to offer an hour long. And then and then you find that people are milking you for the paid stuff definitely where is it different from ten minute finding the other things? It's really useful that can fit in with that, if you want your, your fact, finding and then take your take your customer through, and even better sales journey. It's to start with something like quiz. And they can work really well to evaluate where someone is. And then follow them into your ten minute phone call, and then you can take them on the journey to, whatever it is that you offer an all of this, of course, if would fall under the banner marketing, and Mark is an essential skill of any business, if people don't know that you exist, then you're going to struggle so marketing experience, did you have when you started your business in the house, this volved over the last eleven or twelve years? Well what was a hospital manager. I was sent off to do my Yemen, diplo very management, studies and various things by Hammersmith special helpful charities, it was them. And the marketing, I learned then although the basic premise of what you're doing. Was found in terms of taking a month three were here awareness interest desire action, and that site, and whatever it's being called now, however, there was no social media. So in terms of learning marketing, and learning the very. Core slightly cold elements that you learned before it's so different. It's actually fairly worthless in many ways, what I learned previously. And what you're doing now. It's amazing. There are so many opportunities to get yourself noticed. Absolutely. Just huge people like video people like blokes as well. Not people, very often people saying, you know what the, the days of the blog are dead. I disagree, certainly my marketplace. I made the decision when I started to go into to content marketing. That's what I did whether I called it that will not is now the handle that, but I had a WordPress, blog and the beauty of keeping your blog fresh and up to date means that when the little Google spiders go across looking for anything new, if you are regularly blogging on your site, they will always find something new. And that means that in Google and there is always an active site that will encourage people to come if you are then going to Facebook or Twitter. Or Lincoln and you're driving people from those audiences through to your side. Then Google says. Wow, you've got new visitors coming all the time. And that's really exciting. This must be quite a good site. And if you're able to do that more and more than they ranked key higher. And if he writes, so I write for myself, I also write for the nothing times for the British dental journal for the British journal school nursing to authority and also links, I write for the British library, a link from the particular every hugely valuable a link from the nursing times is huge value valuable I write for the mail online to go the bell on stop very high. But you know what the male or line is one of the highest read millions and my mouth. It read it. So people say the important thing is hang out, where your customers are and initially, I didn't quite understand what they were going on 'cause in the pediatric market, it's like I don't really want to be hanging out with the kids all the time. It's not. I've done that. But if you think about who's buying for the kids, it's the parents. So I want to hang out with the new mums. It doesn't mean physically hang out, necessarily, although physically hanging out with GP at the Royal College achieve Jeep general dishes this morning. It's about understanding where your market is likely to come into contact with you, because we've all heard in order to know, like, and trust, you, they're going to have to say you at least seven times in different places. So if they can see me in the mail, when they in the newspaper if they can then follow up and see I come up, maybe a couple of days later on the mail online, and then. They are sitting in the GP surgery, and they pick up. I don't know copybook 'cause I've given it to them for free. And if they then see a flyer that I've got because I've got nicely printed flyers that people like because it's got things they wanna keep, so if they see a flyer on a friend's bridge and someone shares something that I've written on Facebook or Twitter then certainly I'm in the head. And I've gone from somebody, there's sort of fake Lee wear off. They don't need me yet they may have no interest in buying from me. But if the have an accident, and they found that they weren't didn't know how to help all if the pregnant, and they want to know how to help the new baby or if the teenager. Wants to do that. You hadn't Burr wants to know how to do once to their skill. Then certainly if they're looking on Google. They're searching and I come up, I'm familiar to them and none of that. Will have cost me very much. Although Facebook is now a paid platform, and I think we as a business, we all need to understand that, that to push it properly, you will need to pay intensive Google arts. I burned quite early on with Google ads at Schramm back to them again. And that working for me. I understand everything much better now and if Google will help for free. So when you start spending a certain amount on a regular basis nor a huge amount, but it's certain amount on Google, or on Facebook. They will contact you and they will offer you free marketing advice. So one to one call with someone who knows what they're doing for an hour, and they will share screens. And they will take me through setting up my ads the way that will perform best. And then when I get reports back, they will then help too. To optimize them and that's invaluable. So we are drawing towards the end of our time. But I just want to squeeze a few more things in review before we go online courses, and on setting up an online business is something that is, is, you know, one of the top ranking things that people who come to my skate, various meetings. They all want an online business. They want this passive income, and I know you're businesses, a combination of online and offline but in terms of online business, and, you know, the courses that you sell you know what is some of the benefits advantages? Why do you think that, that is a good way for people to perhaps begin learning on my world? It's, it's, it's been pivotal to growing my business that, that little bit further. And I, we sell online, I eight dogs courses in America, and Australia, whether very popular, and it's great. You know it's, it's. It it, it's a great prophet because once you've covered your costs Salang as you're paying for a major platform. So again, very careful, there are various plug into you can use WordPress, that can give you tremendous functionality in your online courses. So we've got thirty six online courses in fact, actually, we got thirty eight now because I wrote to more. Thirty eight and they're all a bit different, but the, the rule in the basic format where you've got videos. You've got step-by-step directions. You've got infographics you got pictures. You've got test yourself, sections that interactive, you can stop and start after nece- like, and there is a big test yourself section at the end, don't pay too much as up front costs to create them. It will cost you money. It will cost you good faith thousands, but spend a lot of time researching different options. I would say. Think carefully st- you want to provide there's lots of platforms the offi the ability to do short video courses and if that fits and let you Daimiel something, and then they will market them for you. But they will also take cuts if you want troll created yourself and I'd say that is usually no need to pay. Long term costs. So you shouldn't be paying your platform, 'cause if you're paying your platform, then you've got a continuous fixed cost. Whereas if you paid for your costs up front, then you knows that you've got pretty much one hundred percent prophet, which is very nice situation to be in the night can't give them away. So then have the flexibility in the gift to give something that would have value of ninety seven pounds for example, and the content is incredibly valuable and worth entirely that, but I can offer it to you for free, and it's not costing me anything, so we is a great value to you. And it's a real gift for me. But generally, and it is a generalization if you've got to really make tech business, then you might be up there, and that might be the best place for you and you might just go back. Generally sort of teaching coaching product type businesses, I think start whether is the markets and then differentiated through it dentistry agree with that. Absolutely. Always always. Yes. As you said, it begins with identifying someone out there willing to pay some money know if you don't know one of my mentors Roger Hamilton, who said, you don't have business when you have a product you have a business when you have a customer. So you can spend lots of money and lots of time creating something that in your own head, you think is the next best thing. But if no one's she paid you any money for yet. Then you aren't she and got a business yet. Absolutely not go back again to see what people are searching for. Is there a problem there, thirteen for that your product or service solves, if so you need to probe further so it might not be that you're there, but probe further, and you could well be on with the winner? Okay. So what advice, would you give to someone who's listening right now who wants to start your own baseness, Burt? They're being held back by fair. Maybe there on that commute back and forth to work each day. You know, they're just know that something bigger and better within the haven't made that leap of faith will take an action. What would you like to leave your parting words for them? So Emmer advice, would you give for someone who's listening right now? Maybe they are squashed up on the train, or stuck in traffic, dry on their way to work, and they really want start your rhyme business. Something's holding them back, most likely. It's fair. What would be your parting words for those people? Well, look around that cheap, there appropriately three quarters of them feeling exactly the same one of you gotta take the leap, otherwise you're still be doing it in the next three years, but just be sure if you passion, just be show, you want to be living, and breathing that for the next few years, 'cause that's what you will. Doing if you'll make business. It's not to Matic panacea. It won't give you more time. It will give you flexibility to your time and for goodness, sake, if it's what is in your head, and what you feel passionate about and you've done it. You get your together and go and do it. Grow voice will. Thanks so much for sharing your story. New experiences today with our listeners on Skype radio. And good luck fuel business moving forwards. Thank you very much. Joy speaking to you k.