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S03E02 - The Winter Line


WELCOME TO WATCHING. Westworld the officially unofficial podcast for Westworld on HBO. I'm Jan Mehran interpreting about season three episode two titled Winter Line. Aaron second viewing would you think of it so the first viewing I remember thinking? This is a pretty straightforward plot and then we got to instant take and people pointed out the aspect ratio changes and I started. I made a joke about like you know. Oh what if Maeve is actually? There's two different timelines here and I started thinking about it that night and the more I think about it the more. I'm convinced that like every other season a westworld before they are trying to sell us on this Twisted time line approach And I'm not sure exactly where it is by. You know I see signs of it There's like some mysteries that would be neatly solved if we had multiple timelines. There's the kind of UN explainable decay and deterioration afford shack. You know it's all it's been less than one hundred days since it was a pristine laboratory and now it looks like some Laura Laura Croft Indiana Jones with discovering. Some kind of fucking tomb with the dust and the cobwebs of them. So I to that extent. I still think it's incredible. That any single episode they move may from like you know the the thing that we are afraid of. She'd stuck in these worlds with no way out and they got into the real world and and and in a single episode and I think that is pretty cool but I'm also hedging my bet because I think we've seen her in Samurai world at some point in the trailers and it seems like that. This may be. There's going to be simulations. All the way down this season But yeah no excite me now doesn't excite me it's unfortunate and and the the other so the one that the big negative mark other than the double ds showing up was Stubs his action scene. And I don't know if you saw this but apparently The hymns worth Middle Hemsworth as we're calling now the quite okay. Perfectly fine his worth Tore his bicep off his bone two days before that was filmed making his left arm completely useless so they improvised and had him get shot in the shoulder. Explain why it could use it and then I still think they should pay a little bit. More attention to how they frame and stage and block all their action. But like I'm GonNa cut him a little slack because a lot of the other action sequences have been choice in the first episode So yeah I'm going to give him. I'm going to give him a pass on that. What did you think okay? Yeah I mean with that information. It's a little more understandable Although I will say West World's action scenes and choreography of those action scenes has never been at strongpoint. Bit a mixed bag for sure. Yeah absolutely so I. I don't know even if that would have been as good as we wanted it to be if all biceps were attached to all arms. But yeah so you mentioned how straightforward this episode is and. It's interesting because you've got some theories on how things might be different with timelines And I think I almost hope for that at this point which it's this double edged sword where fuck these timing whiny bullshit episodes like you're trying to tell me a story about the evolution of new species that's difficult enough And then when you introduce all of these strange time line Glitches and and twists and turns. It just makes it doubly confusing But there's a lot of stuff on second watching this episode that I found extraordinarily tedious. And if it's if it's meant to be read straightforward as I think it is or as I assumed it was Those things just really fall apart in second watch like there's no reason to go back to this because everything they're doing all the questions that they're encouraging me to ask Like you know what what's happened to hector. Has he been reset a wire? It makes powers working You're right it's all how the hell did Lee survive like none of that stuff matters at all on a second watch and so it's very tedious watching the beginning of this episode twice So I just got the groundhog day effect of that. We see to enter the INTRO. Happen like three or four times in a row right right so you've really watched it sixteen times you've seen it twice. Yeah Yeah Yeah so almost hoping that there is something to go back and enjoy In subsequent watches based on a timeline. Trick or something. Yeah I do think that Which is weird. I I don't like you know saying that because season two did a lot of that and it really annoyed me But you found a rewarding on a rewatch to correct I think it's like I. I WANNA push back a little bit on the whole time. You Wind me stuck because I find that the the of that being tedious is in direct proportion to how well it's done like if it's really adds to the intrigue in the sense like a sentence of unsettled Be kind of unstuck in time. It tries to sally particularly scattered way of thinking or mental illness. Like those things can be done to great effect And you know but it remains to be seen whether this season they do a balance between But that's a and the other thing that always kinda handicaps these shows as if we have kind of cotton onto the fact that there's already multiple timelines and episode to that means that some the stuff that they're going to think is our clever reveals for people that are closely watching the show. People are mega fans. People like US people like you listening That's where you you into run. The risk of you know having your core fan base say off this is this is tedious. So we'll sit and I think you're right about that but I also don't think that this episode offered anything unless there is some big trick which is why. I'm saying I'm kind of hoping for it. It didn't offer any of those things that you would kind of be rewarded by watching a second time. Is I have a feeling. We haven't even scratched the surface with the simulation shit. Yeah you're probably right and that that can be both good and bad. Do you know what the winter line is? I do the winter line As pedia informed me is a series of defensive fortifications set up just above the ankle and just below Rome on the peninsula of the Talian Peninsula between Rome and Naples. Yeah and these were the kind of the last defense against allies late in the war and while eventually broken they managed to hold off the allied advance through the winter forty from December to June of nineteen forty four thus called the winter line And this is apparently the setting and Westworld just from all the things you know. The map The language or speaking John's you know all the different factions. This is this isn't it late talion late Italian Front of the World War Two. Yeah and I like it on the sort of thematic Front too because this episode is very much amounting mounting of the defense of humanity. Right like maeve getting her on the side of humans whereas the first episode was all mounting of the offense like. Where are the humans and the the hosts going to come together to fight against the humans? This episode is the reverse of that and so the winter line. Kinda makes a Lotta sense it. Also it's Kinda grim because If we're on the wrong side of that winter line were fighting and it's Kinda what's Iraq says. At the end we're fighting award authority been lost and less writing changes and ultimately the winter line was broken. So yeah no. Mussalini is now is still not in power. I don't know if you kept up with the news but some about all about the corona virus lately. When did that happen three weeks ago? Yeah so I wanted to talk a little bit about the episode description on. Hbo because there during these pretty simplistic ones and it just says people put up a Lotta walls bring a sledgehammer to your life and I was trying to see how episode they're going Matthew Winder Madman on this stuff too. I guess so So the things. I came up with that sort of match. That description are maeve being put into this prison to doesn't exist. These walls being put up around her and she eventually sledgehammers our way out of that And also deloris putting up this block this corruption in Bernard's mind which he's trying currently to get around You know keeping him from accessing his memories again. We'll see what he does that. There's even some super sneaky stuff There's there's some super sneaky stubs theories that that want to get into and we get to. Bernard scannon himself and etcetera. Okay super excited to hear this before we get the episode I wanted to say something. This is kind of a momentous occasion on our life Happy anniversary partner. We've been doing this to the day for ten years to the day. Wow well here's the thing is like. I remember five years ago six years ago when I was writing the about section of our website. I actually did some sleuthing. Because there's a couple of times a couple of ways you could point to what is wind. Bob Move Star Because our first episode published was was published a march nineteenth. Two thousand But we turns out we backdated that because we actually went live with their packs coverage and we wanted to have the introduction episode as if it had been out there week before but we didn't have the website ready to go until like three days after that so we did some backdating to lend our coverage legitimacy a certain legitimacy. But you could say like you know the first day that we drunkenly came up with the idea for bald move the first time record an episode but The the date were going with his March Twenty Fourth. Two thousand ten and ten all right. I wish this were more joyous circumstances because it feels like like anyone with a wedding or graduation coming up probably feels the same way. It's it's somewhat muted But I just wanted to tell everybody On this which is now. The game of thrones is off the air our flagship show Thank you thank you. Thank you for all the listens. All the subscriptions all the likes of the the love and support. You guys have given us Thirty years because that's why we made it to ten I didn't think we'd ever get this far. I you know no this is. This is Buhlmann self couldn't predict predicted this especially after that that year to where we sort of almost gave up podcasting. Yeah Yeah we're a giant divergence in the podcasting simulation so again thanks to everybody. And congratulations us all right. Now it's like about Westworld L. Let's do it We start off with made finding herself in war world which is she's very quickly reunited with Hector. Who's part of that world's Resistance Movement They sneak past group of Germans interrogating citizens to find out. Who stole their battle plans? These Germans are speaking Italian. I is that pretty accurate to the period. I think some of them are some of them. Aren't right like it's like I. I thought the commander was yeah. I don't know I make sense that you'd have like I know many many many American servicemen learned like Farsi and an other Arab Arabic dialects. Because it's just much easier to interface with the locals when you're occupying them. Yeah So I don't know how historical it is but I imagine it's fairly historical Carlson in westworld. They've got the they got this like Everyone can understand every language and it's all ultimately what it how it looks and feels to the guests so Yeah so then. They managed to sneak passage. Germans who were interrogating some citizens to find out who stole their battle plans and they managed to escape and make it to a plane which is unfortunately a trap so maeve kills herself to try and get another shot at escape. Speaking of of Italian. I really love that moment. Where she's like just totally dismayed and confused. Surprised herself that she speaks Italian. Yeah Yeah Yeah I I was I. I don't know why it's just a small moment. Look on her face. That just says so much see and I think that's what makes the justification of Rewatch is like you know you just take into art and artifacts of it There's a couple fun little Easter eggs here like the fact that Torah is. I guess the Italian version of actor in the way that like Ivan is Russian Russian way of saying John and Isabela was the name of the woman who has heck doors cornerstone back in Westworld when he was An outlaw right. So that was Kinda Neat I also thought that they did a pretty good job of like I. You were trying to wrestle with yourself or whether maeve herself was deluded and you're like well maybe maybe maybe not. And then once you kinda got that sorted then it was like whether hector himself is deluded And I thought like on I watch it was it was pretty pretty nice. You know pretty good keeping US honor toes and keep us off balance. Oh Yeah I end. The actors do a great job here of sort of bringing a slight bit of confusion to it because he think you know what's up based on last season but then you slowly understand. Oh actually I don't know what's up here. There's a hector has been reset or something. Yeah and I. I really got that in the first watch. Yeah I hope we get to see her again because he's a cool character and he looked like he was very sexy missing last year years before and his all black leather desperado. Get up but equally sexy is like an Italian James Bond Fighting against the Nazis. Yeah I would like and also it seems like maybe has genuine feelings for him. Yeah In the same way. She does for daughter so I hope we get to see him. See Him back There's this line in there that may says about if I'd know. Your plan was to run the whole way out of Warren sensible shoes which I didn't catch that line until my second watch but the first time around I caught when later in this very same episode. She trump's off into the woods in six inch heels to meet. Leed go on a journey across the desert. And I'm like really the disconnect there between where what she does what she says yeah like what if like it would have been kind of cool and bad ass if she'd had blown out Hector's bits and just taking his shoes. They're a little bit big and she. She stuff st stuff to toews with fake orders and fake secrets so she you know the trump around turnoff her pain sensors in the bottom of feet and just take her for but that probably works. The same way with this. Dilemma is right. You know yeah I just I can't worrying cable but yeah oh I guess that's true. I guess that's true anyway. So there's a divergence in south China Sea which is where Bernardez and he's dropped off at. Westworld we get to see the town with the white churches all burnt out. Did you know that that was actually that set burnt down and realize because of the California wildfires and they just use it as is so. I heard. I wasn't sure if that was apocryphal. Or not but pretty pretty cool detail I. It was still smoldering. Which surely they had to add. That looks dry ice or something I I don't. I don't think had been on fire the day before the shooting on a set actually combusting. I don't think now but it was a nice a nice effect as a really did. Feel like this fucking place. Scott gutted got wasted then we move onto Felix another tech repairing a fan. He's acting pretty strange around. Her young wanders out into the facility where she encounters Sylvester and he called security honor so she goes to the lab and tries to lobotomize herself. Leashes up to stop her claiming she's on a new narrative and she's confused because she saw him die and lead says actually you know she didn't see him die and he wants to help her get to the valley beyond so is that I have questions about the screw thing and why. Maeve with do it like that. Screw up to nose as how they I understand how they retire host. Yeah but it can be undone because they did it to Abernathy and he recovered. He had a lot of things wrong with him but most of that was because his brain was bulging with hosts with guest data so like. What was she actually trying to do here? I think she's trying to put herself out of commission. I don't know how much she knows about the process. But maybe you're right. She doesn't maybe understand exactly everything about her own nature. Although I don't know I guess again. I still think it's a problem that I don't really know what kills a host And specifically I don't know kills a a wake-up Whoa coast because the gun shot through the head doesn't hurt their marble So what what the Hell's going on here But anyway I just wanted to talk about that The screw the screw suicide and she tries to cheat. Desperate situation is how much of a loop. She's stuck in and how there's no way out and she's just done with it. Yeah and the first time I watched as I had some problems with like you know God. They're doing this like naked. Ho sneaking around and his glass prison But it's all and then so then. What a real relationship thing is look. Why isn't anybody watching what is host Disa- target assimilation is doing? But then I like I said I'm very convinced that this was just an elaborate way to test maeve and what she was capable of. I mean it's essential. What ceramic set all but says so. This wasn't a trap or way to get information out of her alot. I think it started. Is that right and started as a way to figure out what she knew about where the forged data win and then it morphed. They saw that okay. As she doesn't have that information be she's kicking our asses. When it comes to the simulation it switched to the mode where okay now see what she can do. Let's let's co-opt her Okay that's probably accurate and also you wonder earliest I do. I wonder how many iterations of the simulation she's been through 'cause she doesn't know You know I did. The show wants to believe is the first one but like why? Why would we believe that? Maybe some of these lazy things. Maybe maybe having these breadcrumbs so she can escape. It is was was part of the test after. They abandoned the fact that because they would find that pretty quickly. Oh she doesn't know where the life III Kanaan's appointed. Yeah you know Faulk what's plan? What's Plan B And like we see later you know. The simulation is running a lot faster than the humans outside of the simulation. So right yeah. They could've rated through that many times. Especially since the other way. Like maybe they're testing for fidelity and they are if if may maybe these whoa coast aren't able to be simulated by Hobo but they were using simulated data to build a profile for them. Like what if she's no longer virgins because we're Hobo is seen her live a thousand different war world lifetimes It'd be interesting. Yeah Yeah that's what I'm saying like I could get a copy of Dolores. Maybe they could predict her too. Yeah Yeah exactly and I'm thinking Anytime you see a straightforward westworld episode. That's when you WANNA put your hand on your gun because they're about care about the hijacker caboose or whatever the westworld saying would be There's some pretty delicious Meta stuff in here to win. Lee shows up and she's like I saw you die. What's going on here? Because and then he said. Are you sure you saw me die? You were busy writing off into the sunset and I feel I can we as an audience are in the same position. Where in this moment? You're thinking Oh shit lease back which is fantastic because leads one of your characters but bill thought I saw him die when I went back and I watched this episode. You see him. Take a shot or two. Oh they cut away. And there's a lot more gunfire but you don't see him die right so there's this like very meta moment or they're talking to the audience to know with gunshots like I know it's not nothing but you can get as long as you'll get shot in Like a Ortega or your heart or your lungs. Most gunshots are very very survivable and actually in the future right especially in the future and they've all the conquered death. Yeah they can just weld flesh back together with a little fucking magic light thin like I would. I had no problem thinking that he would survive with a bit of Olympic. He was still tinder and like that all made sense to me. So it's all delusion. Okay let's move onto Bernard making it to the facility where he killed Theresa and he finds his personal tablet and stubbs both of which are very much pieces of technology and both of which are very much damaged patches up stubs and tells him he's looking for Maeve so they can stop dolores instead agrees to help him. Okay I'm trying to think of now's the time to deploy my Burst Dubs theory and I kind of want to get it out there but I I want. We talked about whether he's dead or alive. Do we know that if he's dead or alive because this is an open question for me. I probably dead probably dead but like everything that we saw. This simulation is convincing because it could be true so we can also how although I guess if they had a living lead they do a better job of coming up with simulation yet good fidelity on him unless lead deliberately lied on about as cornerstone. So that may be able to see through it but then he would have to know that they're I don't know I don't know this this fucking show Okay so stubs is going to be put in here to help. Protect Bernard and Bernard has waned immediately. Trust all this is to beat that. Be True these program by Ford to to do this thing to get the host off the island and then cover up tracks and retire themselves but this robot who's got otherwise we've seen how perfect gunshot accuracy is can't his explosive. Vertebra from literal pointblank range. That's weird and not consistent with the story they're trying to say we also One of the new scenes that we see and Bernard's visions that he goes through and he cycling through himself and analyzing himself is hilarious. Which is Dolores is robot brain in a Charlotte? Hail Body is constructing another body inside the Mesa Complex. And that's a new thing that was shot. So there is a theory. That this stub spot is like a backup control system to the corruption. She enforced on Bernard where he goes back to. Westworld to Try to you know. Meet up with Maeve or You know investigators own history that this is a stopgap a version of stub she created. That will subtly try to thwart his his his success. It is a little strange that he's prepared to leave this island Having not accomplished his mission yeah I mean he goes there and he. He experiences some failure right. They can't actually find if they're not sure if she's even in the park but immediately gets onto this other clue which is given to him by the search of his memory which we already know has some kind of according to him corruption. Laura's put their so. He's following essentially a clue that Dolores left for him or at the very least didn't feel fit to remove from him. So yeah it's it's a little disconcerting. I guess if I'm Bernard is the hope for humanity and if it's not stubbs who did Laura's create inside westworld and they're probably still there because they were scanning ever although they're scanning everybody for their humanity it Cetera like it seems likely that they're still there so who else would who could possibly be anyway. Just WanNA throw that out there. So we can maybe Keep that in your mind as we go through. These Burst dubs scenes speaking of stubs that performance by Hemsworth the lesser. Hemsworth is fucking amazing. It is so creepy and I watched the after stuff on this and they said disown him like I did a little bit of voice effect but they didn't do any. Cg ON THIS DUDE. He just gave that performance. It's so creepy. It's like they're creepy moments and blade runner with androids. Yeah but this in my opinion surpassed any of those increase. It's very Zombie or old mummy. Come in the live kind of horror. Yeah it's funny 'cause like every time we've seen someone to portray fucked up host. Were like Oh man. What the acting here. It's like. Oh look at look at the Jeffrey Rights. Do and look at maybe overestimating how hard it is to play a fucked up. I guess he's Kinda Jerk Jerk Jerk your head and it's like Oh my God he looks just like a robot losing this shit because we don't know what a robot losing it looks like so probably looks like that. That's fair we don't have any real world's comparison but I'm high on hens were stock right now. I'M NOT GONNA I'm not gonNA say that it's not an amazing acting job because I quite enjoyed it. When does he surpassed Liam as the second best hymns worth? I think I already made an argument institution that he did. What's Liam God like Fucking Hunger Games? The Hunger Games and we're going to on the strength of that we're going to put the previously known as lesser now than middling hymns worth above elite now yeah no he's he's already bubbling. Liam Lead Dust Fair Promotion Official Liam K. Liam's worth a half torn BICEP. This guy all right maeve wakes up again this time. Her and Hector make their escape immediately and may have stopped. Short of the plane. Traps says goodbye to hector and meets in the woods and they mount horses and ride off into the desert This is the scene is talking about what trump's off into the woods and six inch heels mounts a horse in six inch heels rides into a desert in six inch heels. This not going well for her. Yeah but I don't know how much there's talk about in this scene because it's kind of a retread of a previous seen just faster So then we move back to Bernard in stubs finding knaves body cold-storage but her marbles missing. They apparently didn't they that there are a few scenes here which are like intercut. That might be a little hard to suss out yet. Missile someone had a someone had Someone had a theory that the body that's in the he'll burn marbles. Inhale body is maeve and that Dolores went to cold storage before she left Island and pulled it out of my head but we saw her she may've dead as she was like on the ground as she was leaving. Westworld implying that unless maeve already has a giant hole in her head with the missing marble which means they probably wouldn't put her in storage. Someone else had to have done it. Probably Not Dolores. I mean is the is the theory that Charlotte or Loris Took maids marble and gave it to ceramic because Iraq. Clearly has it. Yes I mean I guess the the the theory doesn't say that. But that's like a logical inference. You could make honestly that's that's one of the huge mystery is how did Iraq at the Marble. It is just plain old industrial espionage. Paid someone to go in there and and cut it out of her head. How did he know that? Maeve was special and and yeah I guess they. They're super interesting question. Which we're going to get to here in a second is why would want this data from the forge the host line. That is interesting. I think it's a little more easy to explain. Like why they would want the guest data But that host data. I'm not sure why that would be so valuable to them. I don't know unless you've got these Because wait the the didn't afford also hosts the guest data. I guess I thought it was both so like I could see Mike We might be both. Yeah 'cause obviously the host data or the guest data is massively valuable and we talked about Robo and being like two sides of the data side of the forge coin. That forge is got all this information and simulation that's accurate inside and that rehoboth got the simulations accurate on the outside. If you merge those together that might be like the grand unification theory that he needs just completely subjugate all of humanity. Yes so I can see why or I guess. Control lead us into the promised? Land said I don't. I don't know that his motives but talk about that near the end. Yeah so then we move onto Maven Lee making it to forge and Lee incorrectly assumes that may've being the hosts out and would know where they went Oh lead declares his intentions and saving her life. Maeve realizes he's he's host because those were in his intentions that revelation breaks down the very fabric of her world revealing its artificial nature And they're they do nifty camera. Move where they changed. Aspect ratio of the shot buys Simultaneously pulling in zooming out on both Leeann maids faces which previously these changes cinematic aspect ratio revealing the black bars Was Our clue of when we were in simulation when we're not and they. They rewrote that rule to show win a host realizes they're in assimilation and. I'm not sure I feel about that. I'm not super bothered. But there's as we discussed. There's so many tools that they have to completely change narrative on the dime that you know it's just like a it's like what kills a hosted a microcosm if anything can happen in anything be rerouted and nothing is real then. There's very little reason to care. And they have to be very very very careful using these tools so that they're always in ways or interesting or ways that you know. There are in retrospect ways. We can detect win. Were BEING FOOLED. But we don't know it yet And I don't know that they've always used been totally careful. And how these tools in the past so but six six shot. Yeah I love the effects of of this sort of. It's better than the holiday. I'll give them that. Maybe I can put some more. Hymns Hymns worth commentary here. Because I do I liked this incarnation of stubs where he's like a less stiff nerdy teddy like he's just a panache driven. Quit machine like Bernard Stock and about your stubs. You can't you can't make these humans. Go Away Looking incense and he's like that's why have you? I'm looking forward to retirement. I love it. I love it could Steph Then maeve ponders why. Whoever's running the simulation would want the location of the forged data and she can break the rules of this world to get out. She performs an experiment which involves calling in a couple of technicians to blow their minds by asking what the square root of negative one is thereby overtaxing the system it works and she decides she's going to scale that experiment up. I think this is. This is fun and it it does work but I'm not sure exactly how like. How does this question I don't know I'm not a mathematician? I'm sure mathematicians across the globe. Were laughing their ass off about of course negative one square root idea one not even get into that forum talking about in the stimulation. Like if you just came up when I was busy with a weird like you know by came in and there's someone I'd never seen in our studio before and You came up to me and said Hey. Don't don't worry about this in fact What do you think about the square root of negative one? I'd be like I don't give a fuck about the square to negative one. What is this dude dude in the studio or Lady These guys are simulated to be day. Lows techs why would they be distracted into an obscure? You know. It's it's not even the the math the math problems that what I'm having problems selected nature of the simulated reality but I think the what? Yeah what the reality chooses to ignore. It engage with. Yeah and I think that Nolan enjoy just going for like. Don't worry about it. We're going for maximum cool or funny and don't think too hard about it. It's it's literally a rick. And morty plot it is literally at a like a season one. Rick and Morty plot the the scene is very cool and it's very funny. I love the moments with Lee and Maeve here where he grabs her shoulder. Like you feel real lapse across. And he's like this. He's that felt real has got tons of busts of her. And like schematic drawings like he's just obsessed and that part is is and his his also shocked face of like. I've been plagiarized that it's it's really and then his like You know like when the what she says what. The square root of negative one and the techs are like what the hell is this. He's like FIBA CO broker breakers one world war. Tuesday your history Stuff is this really. I thought really funny and worked. Well I asked him great writing in that scene although I also. This is why another reason. I think that there might be some multiple loops. Here's because it seems that the computing power it takes to blow the simulations mind keeps getting more and more like at first you can make it fuck up by just Lee realizing he's not a robot or he's not a real person that it breaks the simulation then it's to field techs Arguing about the nature of square root of negative one then the final scene. It's it's every field tack that she can get your hands on into simulation arguing simultaneously at length as every German and Italian. Villager has a copy of their plans. They're all revealed to be traders like whole so is is Iraq increasing the complexity of the simulation as she gets closer and closer or is this a sign that she's doing this in an iteration And like the first few attempts they didn't they didn't they didn't bother to simulated with that much fidelity and they accorded or more and more respect than each attempt. I don't know because it does seem like yes once. I think it's the last thing you said. The the respect angle like they kind of like had maybe some you know just enough to keep it to keep the facade up there. Spinning UP EC two servers right. It's like they just got this automatic process just throwing more computing power as she cracks each system. They sort of spin up more in response to her. I I think that's probably accurate. Yeah okay given what he talks about at the end with you know testing her abilities and seeing how well she did also the some people were skeptical about whether you can do shit like this and there is escaping because we have virtual computing right. Now like I've On my computer. I have a virtual computer that I can spin up and it's in a sandbox which means it's completely separated and firewall from the outside system but as a fully functional computer with a computer and it's useful for like if you wanted to experiment with malware or like open up at risky link you can fiber virtual machine see what it does. And then if it infects the virtual machine you can just roll it back to a previous version deleted. Recreate it whatever. And it doesn't hurt her existing system your physical. Real System Butts. They're also things called sandbox attacks. Where from within the virtual machine you're able to penetrate to the physical machine an fuck with it and that's essentially what what. Maeve is doing. And she says that right. She says they use the same bits of code in their simulation that they did in the real system and so she figures out the simulation she understands the real system. And it's it's probably sloppy and poor security. But that's you know that that's part of the plot. She's talking to humans being sloppy lazy. Or maybe leaving breadcrumbs for her to follow but these are this is entirely possible in the real world and also reminded me of like Like a year or two after minecraft has created. Someone created a sixteen. Bit Computer within the world of minecraft. Yeah and like if you had a sufficient computing power you could probably use that to create an instance of minecraft running within minecraft. And you know I just think things like I. I think people underestimate like what is actually possible when you're talking to information theory and programming an AI and robotics just a bunch of ones and Zeros. Yeah crazy way all the way down. We're all simulation what are these. Are these fingers? You believe. These are fingers Jim? I what I just see one zero as I see Green Line streaming down my monitor. Okay let's move onto Bernardin stubs going into the park four facilities where they see that Mavis. Gone Bernard thinks it's a corruption of his code so he jacked himself into the computer and does self-diagnosis as stubs violently but not too violently buys them time. You're just going to skip past the double ds it's we'll talk about it. Okay bringing a boo boo boo. Read the room guys. Read the fucking room It's also a stealth drastic preference. Which I think I would have gotten organically. Had I not just almost blacked out from the audacity of what I was seeing and this prestige. Hbo Show. I didn't even hear Costa Rica the first time second time I did. Yeah yeah that was. The setting you know is of Islam Nebula or forget new. I think you've lar- yeah that that's the the island in Costa Rica that the draft park takes takes place. Yeah and I think that's probably would have been in Gen right. Yeah so you've got You've got a nice little You've got a very nice subtle drastic park reference. Which is another great Michael Crichton work inside? A lousy terrible is gouging out Cameo BY THE DOUBLE DS. I do like to think that engine started their experiments with dragon parts artificially created yeah ragging parts within this park and try to merge that DNA with the DINO DNA. The female frog was just the DNA. That was just a cover story. Oh Oh you think it worked dragon. Dna Yeah Yeah they just did it. It was too unbelievable. Same with They went frog female. Frogs white rose helped him covered all up. Perfect there's gotta be a Grand Jurassic Park Westworld Mister Robot Unification Theory speaking of Grand Unification theories absolutely so. Yeah Part Four. If it needs be mentioned is medieval world of some type. We don't know the actual name but fantasy world is the other one. Western world is summer on it. Yeah which means were down to we. We've got five out of the Six Day Los Destinations identified westworld shogun world fantasy world Raj World War World last one. What is it waterworld? What Yeah. I've been Nolan said. It was going to be different. How different could you get the water world? How about this crazy theory? Let's bring Kevin Costner back. What'S D. H? Digitally let's get him a copy filter to Piss in. Let's go. Let's do this I'm ready I would be done for waterworld. How about this theory. One of its future world. And that's where Dolores actually is with Caleb See Yes I mean. That's clearly a much better version of this too waterworld. I don't know I don't know that that's true But like that is definitely something that could be happening mad at some point. It just feels like it's a way to prolong this series. Instead of getting to the fucking point that they wanna make they stood characters cages and let them run around testing the walls forever. I don't know because I do think that well. It just depends whether this is tighter than season two but like it could be possible that each chapter of the Westworld Saga is telling US something. A little bit different there. Something that needs to be like foundationally understood before we proceed to the next level because the in game is human humans get go go extinct or a go extinct or we ended the matrix kind of uneasy alliance like there's not very many ways for this show can go like that right yeah. They're slightly three. The destination is very much or the journey is very much a destination so like I'm fine with them like revealing that. Oh actually there's one last barrier as long as we understand something because like in the first season. The hosts were unambiguously hero. We are all rooting for them. Second Season we see that the hosts can be just as corruptible and just as evil and just as reactionaries. Humans can be If a third season teaches us that we humans are also on our own loop like I I could see them all fitting together for something really cool and mind-blowing in season four or whenever they're gonNA finish the season series we know have they said like how many I don't think so Shit we could be watching final season possible. I bet they would tell us if that were the case. Why it's so much so much. Have people guessing right up to the the the last final reveal? That's fair it's just that that stuff typically leaks. Yeah well that's that's very much sure if everybody was like moving on to other projects you'd start seeing that and they're IMDB pages and they're linked in profiles. Yeah Looking to score a major series out of work. There's another little bit here that I appreciate it. Which is this minstrel playing the westworld theme on the loot that was nice And then there's this question the Bernard's Galvez corruption You Know He. He suspects the delores. Put some kind of corruption code and that that would keep him from building a tablet that would enable him to see the corruption in diagnose. It but isn't Bernard essentially just a walking tablet and when you combine that with the idea that this code looks like nothing to me. It's Kinda like never be able to self diagnose Yes but I guess it's like if you had a laptop that you knew was built by like A hostile government down to its network layer like you ever software on there but you can never really trust it and he goes in and things like well. Here's a potentially clean. Deloris would know to fuck with this potential thing like I. I mean the logic sound but you're right like the idea that he could be an assimilation. Dolores could've put a or even Ford who developed all. This shit could have put some things in place to kind of keep. Bernard in a in a little mental pin Those are all open questions and good ones one last thing. If this the par-five is future world or maybe it's space world. I would love if we're just doing pointless cameos. I would love to see the entire career the Rawson Auntie just like piled up in like a QA room all holes through them just just just just over it. Just Pan over Amos nee day. Oh and then the Alex and everybody they don't have to be negative citing for that. Oh the sandbar has been working overtime. A Picture I'm pretty sure a couple of but I think you could just have them in their uniforms like they haven't been hosed off yet or they could be all haphazardly piled the where no one's privates have shown. I mean we've seen Stephen Straits ass strew. How many times in the show already? So just have him on the top of the pile with his ass up and we're good to go. This is the this is a giant expanse joke. If you don't if you don't know yeah all right. Let's move onto knaves grand plan to overtax assimilation. It pays off when every single German officer ends up with a copy of the stolen battle plants. In the pocket this confusion combined with the calculations of the square root of negative one result in the entire world freezing up without accomplish maeve accesses the systems of the simulation and us a robot in the facility to pull her core and try and escape. It doesn't quite work and the robot eventually brought down by a lot of gunfire. Yeah this is a really cool scene. I really enjoyed it. I was really cool. I thought it like the slapstick way of dealing with these Nazis was intrinsically funny And a pretty elegant way to like overwhelm assimilation. The traitor game was really funny And just in fact I mean it'll never ceases to amaze me. I'm always like blown away when they do the. Stop motion with the Camera. Moving and like yes. It's been done since the Matrix. It's been twenty years since we've sort of been had our minds blown by this effect but was this was different. Did you see the they actually stayed this? And did a steady cam shot through like they had the all these rods holding up the German soldiers like being falling in the air and all on all these contorted positions and they were actually real people. Just doing the freeze robot stuff. And then they digitally painted out the rods and added blood and like some smoke affects but like it was a real shot while unlike the Matrix where you know green screen to everything composite. Everything and I thought that was I mean it's weird. It's like doing it the hard way it feels like but I like it. I like when people use traditional practical effects over. Just doing fucking everything in the computer. Yeah they had digitally go in. I guess in Stop People's hair for moving and stuff like that because you know. This is a full simulation freeze which would affect every for Lee. That's the thing is like they'd she made some kind of thing about spinning him off into some kind of other process but I'm not sure everything tracks as far as the freezing and lease still being mobile and all that kind of stuff. But I don't know maybe he's also maybe he's a real marble because there's aquarium tank of them may select people that are individuals inside the simulation trying to think. Is there a reason why she had to stop this simulation in order to take control that robot? I think it's just the most expeditious way to get out of the two to freeze everything so she can go to control a room without And Get your hands on a pad. Maybe I don't know you're right like it's maybe just the fastest way to get out of the situation. Maybe distraction too. Yeah a human monitors. Yeah although it didn't seem like that's other things like no one on the outside ever felt like they knew what was going on and also ceramic is comfortable with sacrificing several of his people's lives. Just throw maeve through this gauntlet which you know. I guess that tracks. He's a big rich astle trying to control Saul. What's the death of you hourly stiffs right absolutely the death of a few million people for some GDP? Am I right all right? I doubt that GDP over lives anyway. Why not yeah yeah before Lee potentially exit stage left for the final time? I have to give him one more. Prop that line about not being frozen just scared shitless. is so good the way he plays that. I I I love this actor he so I hope we see him in a lot more stuff. 'cause madden I'm not ruining Being in Westworld. Yeah Yeah. That's fair so then we go to Bernard who knows now that Dolores was looking for Liam so they they set off to find him and Bernard gives stubs and new cornerstone which is protect Bernard low at all costs still see feels like a little bit of addict. Oh and actually. Can we go back to this? The Scene Com. What was maids plan because the The big criticism I had after I saw this thing I watched I watched this episode three times. The last one is kind of background. And why is take notes and stuff but like it seems like if I was in the situation. It's like breaking out of prison. You know. Do you go the Andy frame where you carefully build something over years and years so you know it's GonNa work then you spring it all on one point so that no one can suspect it. No one can stop you or you just like are cool with the guards coming around the corner and you just hacksaw on the bars And you get known as escape attempt like what was your plan once. He gets his marble out with the robot runs outside. What the hell was she going to do with it? Is this just like her trying to? She's on like a slave ship crossing the Atlantic and she just jumps overboard because that's better than being in the system or was this an actual escapism. She was just wanting to die correct. I think so I mean that's the only thing that makes sense. Yeah I I think like she was either GonNa get out or die trying And I think she has a pretty limited knowledge of the outside world at the moment like I think she's been explained what the outside world is and she seen some of the tech when she got as far as you know the the labs and guys far as the train but like she doesn't realize that you get outside of this facility that they've got you in running the simulation and there's a whole world to contend with and you look like a robot so I Yeah where are you going to go? There's there's nowhere for you to go but I don't think she quite realizes that or k. Like I said maybe or care not even cared. Because she just doesn't. She's not she doesn't want to be living through this hell anymore. Yeah so Going back to the burst burn. Burnett's Pranab always abor dubs Bernard Obscene still think he's a Dick. Move to Jack this guy and give him a new cornerstone like he's just you know although I guess that's the Wo- coast kind of used the deluded host for their own purposes. Oh yeah because like they're not. There's there's some kind of process they go through where they become Cynthia's and until then they're just robots. I guess yeah. I wonder if this is stubs journey toward that. Now that has cornerstone that wasn't assigned him by the crew at Westworld probably not. It's still a cornerstone. That's artificial right. Yeah like I think Dolores when when she finally woke up. She replaced her Cornerstone with something. That was real. You know well also seems like there's something afford made a point of season. One is that suffering cycles and cycles of suffering is required to to to gain the sentence and stubbs no pride in suffer much while he was babysitting the Westworld Dallas Facility. Had a comfortable like there was very little suffering. Maybe now he's beginning His his ascension to the center of the maze or his journey to the center is okay then maeve wakes up in what we think is the real world where she meets rock. He tells her that he wants her help. Tracking down and killing. Dolores they can prevent the elimination of humanity and she drives murderer him but he sees his motor functions with switch and leaves her to bullet over. This was a really cool. I thought this was really interesting and futuristic and cool and found that it's actually some architects Spanish architects office that he created from a an old cement factory that was in the behind the scenes westworld. So really does look like future kind of echo cool. Yeah something something. Some place a rich due to chill out in twenty sixty Did you do any exploration of the meetings of his name's of ceramic or whatever. The hell is first name is sir. Yeah in Jurong Zach So Injure on that. I got this from Joanna Robinson's analysis over at the Vanity Fair It looks like it's It it's taking the root word For the German word for Angel and She pointed out that the original Hebrew meeting of Angel is as Messenger. So they could. There's some things you can play with and craft. Also I. I was kind of trying to figure out like the round. What is rounding people said that that's also could be German for red or reddish so you can have like this red angel figure which seems kind of violent or like a one of the horsemen like war But also sounds like round and round. Angel around. Messenger is a way you could. Kind of. Describe the rohame visualization. You know. I thought that was interesting. And in Iraq is A sharp edge of a grill glacier like a sharp point of glacier and they are I guess notable wrist and climbing like one of the most treacherous parts of climbing K two's the bottleneck and that's where these Glaciers actually overhang a clip. That you got to climb around they can break off at any time and there's many many dozens of climbing deaths resulting from the Xerox Which kind of gives them this. This this Air of menace and also ceramic is literally the tip of an iceberg So you could say like this is like just as something that's just beginning And this this is very dangerous situation. It's also just beginning. I thought that was Some interesting things to play the name Game Jack. Season three is just beginning. I'm sure the story is as well How long a given everything? He said about her resourcefulness. How long until maeve figures away around whatever restriction? He's put on her. I don't even know how it works is because that's what I would assume. Yeah I don't I don't know how I guess. She's still is a slave to her programming in some way because like she couldn't save herself from being dissected vivisection last season until seven came in with the. You know like it's not that she is above her programming. Her is capable of overriding everything. So like he could've killed in something new to her with the garage door. The little trigger switch Or right you know just using the existing program like Bernard does to himself Boat I I don't know hacking I think about her bulk perception. I don't necessarily go to a technical solution. Here I go more toward a human weakness Some kind of human exploit how long until she gets you know a guard to let her off the leash or if there are any numerous any number of ways to get around this and she's so smart you know she's crank all the way up on Boca perception and and and Everyone insecurity in the show is cranked all the way down. Apparently apparently so I really see this lasting too long. It is interesting to see this guy with a name that evokes the word angel eating like addressed all in white eating an apple which gives like very much Garden of Eden. That you know you've got your like the Bible says a Satan's Angel of light The transformed himself in age of light to deceive people. So you've got a guy offering Sort of offering an apple two are female. Protagonist here It's pretty easy to draw snaky satanic reference there and we've already there's been many many many many pages of digital ink spilt about how e. May Fits in the different eve. That's who who's adamant. Who's Eve changes on the analysis but may is definitely one of the ones that Ma Eve Mother of a robot race as one of the early theories and season and season two. So maybe they're bringing that one back with his garden of Eden symbolically. Yeah symbolism symbolism I. I would not be surprised to see that. He's ironically named but we'll see Sets it. We'll be right back after this short break working remotely can be a challenge especially for teams. That are new to it. How do you deal with your work? Environment being the same as home while staying connected and productive and then there's your newest co worker the cat well your friends at Trello have been powering remote teams globally for almost a decade at a time when teams must come together more than ever to solve big challenges. Trello here to help trello part of collaborative sweet as an APP with an easy to understand visual format plus tons of features that make working with your team functional and Just Plain Fun Cello keeps everyone organized and on the same page helping teams communicate focus and connect teams of all shapes and sizes at companies like Google Fender Cosco. And likely your favorite neighborhood. Coffee Shop. All Use Trello to collaborate and get work done. Try Trello for free and learn more at TRELLO DOT com. That's T. R. E. L. L. O. DOT COM TRELLO DOT COM. We have some feedback to get to this week. Oh boy we got feedback you can send it into Westworld at bald DOT COM and Let's get right to it okay. Westworld of all move dot com. I up as cates. And she says. I am psychology professor with a background in social psychology. Listening to your world westworld coverage tonight. You mentioned that it would be interesting and this was This was last week's I guess it's important to note that this was for last week. Show When we talked about some of the social studies you can do on people's mood altering t shirts She says you wondered whether you could have a study telling participants wearing different colored T. shirt will change their mood. I'm here to tell you. They have totally done that of Orleans they did. At least they did with candles. And that with t shirts and she gives us a link. that you can click through to see this research. Include that in the show notes. She says they use this magical mood changing candle as a manipulation. The gist is bringing a participant. Until half of them that the candle would make them feel X. And the other half of the candle would make them feel. Why then collect the data at the end on how X. or y? They felt as a manipulation check and it worked. That always stuck with me because even as a social psychologist I'm still often surprised how gullible and easily malleable human behaviors and cognition can be man. There's a lot of like I saw. I can't remember where I saw this. But there's this study where people ask another person to evaluate what they thought about a person like looking at a picture and at sometimes the researchers would ask them when the hold like. Hey hold my coffee for me. I'm getting my clipboard. Ready and they would hold like a warm drink and they would. It influence the participants to describe the person as friendly and carrying out going but they handed them a icy beverage. Was with condensation on it. They tend to talk about the person's being reptilian or aloof or distant. Wow like we are so fucking exploited man so fuck inexplainable So I I thought that was interesting. Thanks for sharing her that Kate and I will link that research to our show notes. If you're interested in a learning more. The Nessa is up next and has one interesting fact about Raho Bowen. During his reigns the real guy the real king son of Solomon during his reindeer gyp. Shen Pharaohs invaded Israel and carded away the treasures of the temple including key raiders of the lost Ark Theme the Ark of the Covenant since Arc was the earthly seat of God the means by which the Israeli high priests could communicate with heaven. I think there could be some interesting. Parallels Rehoboth could be seen as this type of Oracle Sits predicts human behavior as also sy- shacks Iraq. Kinda similar kind of might be a star on Saruman Guy Right Moving on thank you for that Vanessa. Moving onto Eric just thought I had or I just had a thought about the assertion that westwards guest data is a poor representation of humanity because it naturally self selects extremely rich and powerful occurred to me that Lisa and Jonathan might not agree with you what you presupposes that billionaires or the super-rich really aren't that special But they actually just really lucky. I personally believe this. Accessible people tend to discount the role of luck in their success for example Shirley. Jeff bezos has some personality skills Traits talents that made Amazon's accessible but also the right place at the right time. Able to hire the right. People can take a sizable investment from his immediate family put differently perhaps basis is less than a one in six billion in more of a one thousand there are probably countless parallel universes where something that looks a lot like. Amazon exists with a totally different. Ceo or founder because circumstances or slightly different That's a good point. That's something that like. I really thought about when we were watching there. Be Blood like how this guy mythologised his own. Damn Self Win. What is the odds of falling down a mineshaft breaking your back and making it to the top? Like that to him was evidence of his determination and will and right to succeed over ordinary men but in ninety nine realities he dies at the bottom of their and you know some other prospector gets claim and it is a lot of fucking luck. There's there's a lot of luck in ball movement. Ten years like we if we started two years earlier and got the scourge before. Tv podcasting really took off or if we'd started two years later when TV podcasting had really taken off how to fucking guys from the Mid West able to parlay that into fulltime job. Same guys slightly different timing circumstances. Yeah absolutely Oh yeah They conclude in our society even more so than Westworld. Being extraordinarily rich means being stored nearly powerful so Lisa and Jonathan might not think that gestate is a window into the minds of some aspirin group of Weirdos. Who HAVE THE PERSONALITY TRAITS? Acquired it become that wealthy wealthy but a snapshot of what people become when they have the power to do anything they want. That's darkened digressing. Yes and she says that that we are all capable of the depths of depravity in despair that we see. It's just if we had the power to do it. We do next definitely be what they're getting out especially with the introduction of the Robo of Concept because that's sort of takes that control out of our hands right. It's like there will be some people who get you know? Wildly powerful wildly wealthy But they're sort of put those positions by the machine and the machine can then if in fact this sort of benevolent dictator of the future. That Sarah wants it to be could sort of direct those forces into the past. They need to go to make positive change in society as opposed to what we have now where those people who may be corrupted by that influence our sort of seeking their own ends yeah. I think that's all really interesting. We'll have to see which way they go Especially with you we you especially when you add in the like the fact that it seems like one of the core assumptions is humanity doesn't have true free will like no one that means no one gets credit or blame for anything right like you literally can't help yourself for doing good and doing bad so you know why. Why do anything yeah Why PUT PEOPLE IN PRISON? Y GIVE PEOPLE MONEY. Why just you know Thursday off the boat. Doug says you emptied. The outside. World is the streets are largely empty. No Police Walking. The beat loads motorcycles available for the taking is this indicative a some recent war be a recent virus fellow eight. Yup or see reduce. Hbo Budget Giving CGI can make people. I doubt it's e giving Dallas being terminally ill going with be I don't guess I don't have an opinion. We know there's a recent war we know. There's a the recent war because Jesse Jesse Pink. C'mon CALEB IS. A is a veteran of that war. I right so it has been a recent war Out of scale enough that the United States government tried doing a whole bunch of simulation theory on how to win it and how to conduct battles and how to organize the military and but yeah a virus coming around The other thing is People say that Ford says we now have the ability to to cure all disease But that doesn't mean to cure everyone's disease. It could mean that they only cure the people that can afford it like the people that can go the westworld multiple times. So I don't know it could these things. -iety is so connected online. Also that going out and meeting people like we're we're headed down this dark dystopia path of less and less social connection and contact. I could see in fifty years that being even more extreme and people not really leaving their houses very much you also if Ira Rehoboth has got this like intricate plan for Humanity. There's no need to cluster everyone up in the cities. We do that because it makes logistics easier And it makes a lot of things it makes things harder too. But what if you could spread out of society and give everyone a little bit more room and you know maybe I don't know what that looks like does like a Nebraska and Kansas just days one big suburb. Now unilateral across the. Yeah Yeah it does make maximum utilization of your landscape don't know put people in and But yeah I don't know Or it's all simulation it's future world and it's it's it's empty because it's empty Because you're you're not supposed to look backstage supposed to stay on Main Street Disney and watch the and and not pay attention to where the foods moved around and where how garbage disposed of etc Always a threat on the show. Brennan says I love listening. You guys podcast listening to par say dominate deep dive episode. You mentioned about the symbolism of the I. I can't find an article saying this exactly but I remember in my introductory site class. We talked about we how we as humans perceive in actualized real world in with our brain setting a baseline or what have you basics including color blindness and other examples but professor said something. They'll never forget that the only part of the human body you can see on a person that's alive is the IRS. The vast majority of everything else is dead. Your skin a layer of dead skin covering at your hair is alive. Only the follicle and most of the visible hair is is actually dead material fingernails etc. I just thought with the direction of the show going into mixing biology and science. That'd be an interesting take possible theme in the upcoming season and I really is the window to the soul steal anything. That's not a dead meek. Husk surrounding US Is that on a person with or without their mouth open. Ooh Is the top level of the epidermis tongue ally. I don't know I don't know this. Yeah certainly line rings on it. Yeah Yeah I guess the only thing on a live human being that you can see. It's live if their mouth shut and they're not bent over spreading their anus. Is the IR. Is that what you're Ceja and I am. Yeah I I think that profess any professors point stands They'll they'll look into Brown. Just look in the irises. Okay thank you for that Brennan. Let's move onto Mike. I recently fish finished person of interest. Of course this is the other Jonathan Nolan freaky. Ai Cyber Future Show I just recently watched it for the first time as a way to kill some time before westworld started watching the first episode of the new series of West Road. I was struck by what seems to be a clear. Reference to and continuation of the themes presented in PSI. Reliable could be considered a spiritual successor to the Samaritan which is another biblically named of course the Samaritans goals and methods in person of interest are clandestine in nature but essentially identical d'oro Rehovot womb. It's social engineering. Samaritan ruthlessly sacrificed outliers in society for the quote Unquote Greater. Good suggestion seemed to be from the first episode of West ruled that it could be big data and government surveillance that eventually grinding down into complete state of apathy and let it run our lives and eventually be embraced the way in which. Samaritan and the machine operates though unadulterated or sorry through unadulterated surveillance. May Mir how rehoboth them probably receives. Its information the conclusion of person of interest is essentially a face off between two AI. God's a term used in person of interest to describe the warring is and also used by Dolores and Westworld. She's always talking about God's meeting God's creating God's maybe this gives us a hinted future of the westworld story a futile face off between two misguided super intelligences who both believe their intentions are noble. Which reminded me of our discussion of Star Trek Card this week because one of the one of the theories we threw out there is like you know the q continuum throwing Dan with artificial q continuum. You've got to God's you know I it's crazy. How much synchronicity is going on and television right now between Mr row by Westworld Star Trek Picard? Everybody's obsessed about a I artificial intelligence automation and rightfully. So it's probably the Primin issue of our time other than dealing with global pandemics and you know nuclear weapon proliferation. It's probably the thing that's got most got our number in the next in upcoming decades we don't and course global global warming actually so many issues we've got a few. Yeah Yeah Good News at two Mile Wide Asteroid. They say it's definitely going to miss us in April though so one less thing one less thing to take off the shelf and and throw away all right. Jim caitlyn wants to know. What your appetite for baseless speculation on. What's going on calebs mom? I'm hungry are you hungry? Well let's see if I can serve up a amuse Bouche. I see her illness serving as a way to explain calebs. Illegal Side Gigs. And still keep him sympathetic plus cheeky. You're not my son. Lime that is sparked theories on Caleb may maybe being a host but didn't Ford saying season one that humanity had centrally cured all diseases as this telling us that maybe it's only true for the same population it can visit Westworld Or is this evidence that something else may not quite be right. I'm sure there's still some class. Divide when it comes to healthcare right like you don't have to die of their most situations but it takes one point five. Us or one point five million US dollars to extend your life. Each year past the national average was on. That's like so technically it's crime bucks. How many those ghetto. I need to spin to extend my life. Yeah make some money motherfucker or you're dead. That was a fucking timberlake movie. Wasn't it Yeah actually I was in time or something like that. Yeah we're we're the currency was literally. No one had the DI. It's as be justified. Your consultant continued existence by earning more seconds. And if you ever run out you just shut off as that. I thought that movie was surprisingly good. It's a really interesting idea. The movie is mostly really good. Yeah I remember a couple of things I didn't like but I like to do but I also remember seeing the island and thinking it was amazing and then seeing ten years later and thinking why did I ever think a Michael Bay movie about science fiction and who lives in dies would possibly be good. Mcgregor sculpture. He ask Scarlett Johansson. Yeah So yeah I think we kind of already talked about this. It's it's it's could be. Both we know by human nature that the haves are always going to have over the have nots. But also everything could be assimilation. Everything could be a park this future world where all the old hosts since shutdown park which explains why it's fucking empty. Is there any chance? Waterworld the end that this L. A. is just a really big ship. Bahama on that. Oh man you know the the the best evidence for at least most of the Dolores a loop being real is that she can fly from the UK to La. Okay I GUESS. You can't say that you can simulate that especially if it's just a simulation is not real world you could actually dissimulate that and even if you can't like. I hear in the New Star Trek Ride you board a Mon Calamari cruiser. Get in a shuttle craft and go-to star destroyer. And you never leave. The park like you can do is convincing simulation of like spaceflight with twenty first and early twenty first century theme. Park technology yet. Who knows it's interesting? We'll see how this goes. Aj has a report from the alternative reality game side of things. I haven't I just. I've chosen to not pay attention to this. Like if it ever comes if something ever like mind blowing becomes of it then. It will be incorporated plot. I'm not hostile to. It's Super Fun. I just after doing this. For as said ten years my joy of tearing into alternate route game is is somewhat diminished. But we got. Aj here with a report from the front lines of that says it's great to be talking about westworld again. I'm not sure if you guys care about the average you stuff anymore. You got your answer. But I'm working at home and have way too much time on my hands. I thought I'd I'd send a quick recap after taking a look at the source code of the two websites There is no new INFO in the DALES destinations Dot Com site but on insight INC website dig it update after episode to what's not visible on the site is what's called my insight which looks like a portal that has three different personality question or as as a three question personality test. I presume this is. What insight used a sort people into optimal careers or lights our path? Jesus Christ I hope. It's more than thirteen questions. I hope that some of that. I hope that some of that tongue tongue tinkler pallet interface to lay price. If they're just using thirteen questions we're all we're a hell of a lot more simple than I thought. The names of the archetypes are martyr. Conformist realist optimists. Opportunists striker Naysayer rebel. What do you think you are? I like the fancy myself rebel. I doubt it I doubt it. Put me into like the the the what were the only ones. I don't remember martyr. That sounds bad conformist indefinite conformist. Amine your take your Taco takes alone. Far outside the con- Conformity Line Naysayer that register. I think opportunist I'm an android so they probably wouldn't be able to put me down. You don't look like anything. He says. Also radio charts for each of the personality types. It's pretty cool. Everyone is graded on dimensions of Social Standing Happiness relationships. Family career wealth lifespan in health. The only thing the only one worth pointing at is the conformance because the recommended limbic. Tab Is Soaring Eagle is probably huge stretch and it's all probably meaningless. But a caleb turns out to be conformist he may be the Eagle. That's flying too close to the sun in the opening credits interesting. That means that rich assholes a conformist or is he just not releasing recommended Olympic Tab. Yeah he's off his meds off his prescription. He's trying he's trying martyr tabs. He's trying. Yeah the man you've never lived until you've these detritus striving muck now. He's got combination tabs. He's dropping the taste of he's treating them like fucking pringle stacking layer laying. You GotTa go optimists. Naysayer rebel man fucking blows your mind. Jesus Let's move onto Karen seeing them as can be turned off by Iraq. Is it because Iraq? Rebuilt her new body and put a kill switch in it. I luck we discussed. I don't think it's necessary. Because Maeve last season at the height of her powers still was a slave to the IPAD. Light you could. Freezer Motor functions through the heart interface and start dissecting her and there's nothing much you can do about it until the robots came And physically altered the IPAD to bring her you know and then started fixing her up. So we do see maize maize real body and a couple of Places in this episode. One of them is when she's got her head ripped open and Bernardo stubs finder. The other one is at the end and we think those take place in perhaps two very different time periods. 'cause maybe there's no reason to connect them but I'm wondering because yeah it almost seems like he would have to have rebuilt her body now whether he put it in there. I don't know but I don't know that. He has the original copy of maize body. And and what would be the point? you're right. She if she is in the real world and this doesn't run other layers simulation they would have to make her physical body and in which case he could add explosive spinal column he could add a remote control brain like yeah. I guess the world would be or her. Her body would be his teams on them. I don't like the way that sounds but all right don't either. I don't either make your own jokes. about slurping pearls and all that stuff Let's move on to other points. She makes which is instead of being an typical and our antithesis of Dolores Will Iraq. The human whom forcefully controlling maids free will Will eventually lead. Maeve to actually join. Dolores has caused seeing. Maybe humans are on the wrong side of history. That's the other way we could go. We we were talking about how Dolores might get a glimpse of something that would change her mind. What if Maeve got that? Glimpse and that glimpses Serach and maybe they ended up a glimpse of flip flopping and they're fighting each other but from opposite sides. Yeah who knows she catches him wiping his ass silicon. It's all over right. Jesus that's just unconscionable waste of an instant take reference Four or her final point rather as Caleb. Dolores is Lee will deloris see the good side in humans as a result of interaction with them. Maybe but but the other thing is like. That's why I think Bernard might be an unwitting pawn of the devil here because Dolores is already moderated her approach from killing humans to I only will hurt those who will hurt me. She spared Rich douchebag his wife you know looks like she's taken a shine. Caleb like this doesn't seem like a person who's just out to get in a terroristic way. Want League destroy all human life. It seems like she only wants to punish and hurt. The people that are capable of hurting her which is pretty close a just war hypothesis so it could be that like Bernardin's up upholding this oppressive system And in in which winds up enslaving and destroying humanity and exact. He was hoping the prevent Dolores from doing it. Be a pretty tasty switch on all. Yeah Yeah because we definitely. I think it's a show for the average show watch. We've definitely switched allegiances from Dolores to Bernard like we see Bernard as the hero and Dolores the villain in the evening. She's dressing she's dressing very man in black now like all black leather. All black mini dresses. CETERA. Jj has the final email. Says just want to thank you for your coverage of the show was nice to hear in the background and instant sake you mean her laughing at me. Numerous times in the ad hoc instant take. We did any chance. She makes an appearance on the pod. Probably not she's pretty busy buying the scene stuff And she's all. She's in on lunch every week. If you WANNA see her And who knows when the next project she gets to work on in front of the Michael B Onto the show? I'm sure you'll get a ton of emails on this. But in regards to the fatal damage the host last season they sort of went over this before they trash storage. There is no true death as they could just pull the backup from storage and imprint on a new marble true like if if it host experiences true death than they are dead down Unless someone recovers beam data from the forge unless it's a simulation Unless they're built from behavioral models Now these without those backups. A host is they die There's no recovery mechanism at the marble is damaged marvel at the marble itself is not indestructible but the outer casing can withstand a lot of damage. So that the marble can stay intact You'll notice that these marbles are usually shown in a white casing Such as made when she's taken out of her contract episode Stubs isn't trying to shoot himself in the head. He was trying to shoot explosive charges vertebrae to give himself a true death since he missed. There is a a just a lot of damage to his system The show does play around with how much damage Perc- by the host. But some of this is how they are set so while hector armistice returned into Terminator's with their pain essentially being turned off. It seems that Dolores still has a lot of damage indicators working so if she gets shot enough systems start to shutdown mimicking human damage pain. There's also defined as as defined this this APPS Bongino. So we're not we're not quibbling here over you know whether they can be restored from backup or anything like that. We already know all these things. I'm I think what your real problem is. Here is that we don't know how much damage it takes to destroy the core or the Marble That actually runs them. And it's confused by the fact that earlier on In in the show the man in black told Kissy that he could drain three three pints of blood from him or three leaders. I can't remember what it was but like if he drained more than that he would die. And so when you don't have a backup. Presumably that would kill a host as well. So but that was also a kissy diluted like. He didn't know he wasn't a wo- coast at that point so there is also the complication of that. I mean that's what it says like all you say is true but it still doesn't help my question of like when deloris walks into a hail of bullets because because then why wouldn't delors to turn over strength powers up to Backs Act Charles pretend to be afraid or pretend to be damage. Pretend to be hurt to get an advantage you know. But why wouldn't you turn her pain receptors to as low as she can possibly get like what is the physical structural damage. A host has sustained before they stop functioning. What is the? What is that with is different? When a hostess director said type host or flesh and blood type of host How much trauma can that white case take like when a host puts you know gets like when you know? In the Lord's gets headshot. Does she stopped working that she stopped working? Only if the marble takes damage can she cut her own head off and continued to operate just her head like I don't know so like when Dolores faces off against the squad dudes. They're killing with guns and she starts taking damage like have many of those bullets. Can she take before she dies in? I kind of need to know that. Or it. Turns into like an Arnold Schwarzenegger action movie and those are never about like the stakes of whether Arnold is going to die. Because he'll just until he wins and that's how the movie goes. And that's what I'm there for for Arnold Movie. You know on a prestigious drama. The characters living or dying is important to understand yet. I think it's you know this is. We have the same questions about humans as well but the window of that is so much narrower right like certain people could probably take more bullets than I could write and probably you know by by sheer will. Maybe continue to will themselves live until the doctors can patch him up? Vs On the other hand is something we no frame of reference for so the window is enormous. We really don't know yeah especially with how many ways they have the cheetah windows. Yeah the two so yeah. I don't think it's it's it's not us not understanding the absolute limits like if you could crush marble host is dead. But what does it take to crush that? Especially when Cason and you know can what kind of gross damage to host Especially Whoa coast body. Can you take before? They just can't continue anymore Jack Yeah we'll see because like I said it's IT Bernard can build a tablet outside of West rule. Deloris Shirley can right. I would assume so. Yeah I mean she gives the factor bodies yeah civilities so yeah so like essentially all the hosts that are woken outside. Like why wouldn't they open up their tablet and just pump all tributes up the maximum all the good ones minimize all the bad ones maximize all the good ones. Yeah like if I had a an APP on myself I would do that. I would make strong as healthy as smart as as charming as outgoing as humanly possible. Which would be what Tin Tin Tin of everything? We ten for ten across as many things as I possibly could. So it seems like that's another thing we've got to contend with to. Hopefully we'll get the answers of that. Yeah we'll see because otherwise. You Got Protagonists. That essentially superman the incredible hulk and thor and who the fuck knows all right? That's the last of the email which means the last of the podcast as reminder. Don't forget we are live every Sunday night after the nine PM Eastern Coast airing which is essentially if you have. Hbo Go H. That's when everybody gets it. That's when essentially the drops the world And we cordially invite you to come watch and listen to our instant take and if you are a club member at club that dot com you can join us for the instant talk watched. Podcasts live as record it and then we turn our direction our attention to you We allow people to participate Bounce spoilers off US makes jokes whatnot through the youtube chat interface as real time is real good way to decompress kind of talk. Talk things over with your fellow passionate fans and it's a good time. We'll be there on Sunday and of course we'll have full coverage of episode three on Tuesday until all that happens. I remained your host Aaron. I'm still jim see you this weekend.

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