The Butcher | Aftershow
Wow. So we did it. We did it. We actually put this thing together this this was an ambitious project from the very beginning. And we're here, and we're here, and if you're listening to this we've launched yes. Yeah. We've lost. Who knows how it's doing? Hopefully, very well. Like. And you're saying that because we're we're having to record this a few days before launch because we made the decision to actually put out the entire first story on the first day followed very quickly by the second story. And so after each individual story, which consists of two parts we're going to have a little after show like this where we actually talk about the behind the scenes and our process for how we put this episode together. And there was no shortage of work here. No there wasn't. It was a nonstop for months and months and months, but it was super enjoyable and definitely different than anything. I've ever done in my entire life. It was the wild ride, man. Still is it is different. That is for sure. And one of things I did want to talk about is how it is different. And how it's different from both your show dark topic and my show sword and scale. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you when you first sent me you sent me your first draft of arm in right in the beginning there. And I remember listening to it and getting back to you and saying while this is this is the best thing ever heard, and that's not blowing smoke. I still feel that way about it. Both of us have this storytelling vibe that we're trying to be almost similar to like a Robert stack from unsolved mysteries or rod sterling from the twilight zone, and that's why we work. So well together, I think but what you did hear rate of the gecko. What I caught was like, man. This guy's telling a bedtime story. Almost you know. Yeah. It's it's really Lulling me into it. I'm not falling asleep. That's for sure. But I mean, I'm really getting into this. It's immersive. Yeah. And that's the one thing I really wanted to be able to create its. A little challenging to be able to put a listener into this world and get them to create the images of what it looks like in their own mind. Yeah. Exactly other doing their part as well with their imagination. And that's what any good book will do for you. Right. And in the past radio shows and all that podcast too. But like you said, it's almost like a movie play going through your mind. And what really struck me is that. When I first heard it. I was like I I've been searching for this. I didn't know I was searching for this. But I've been searching for this like an immersive true crime podcast puts you in the shoes, not only of the victims of the killer themselves and unapologetically explores the world to there is you know, and and that that sounds risky. It sounds like something that would be off putting and it is, of course at times. But it's not in the spirit of justifying the crimes like I've said before it's in the spirit of explaining his best. We can how we imagine killers came to be. You know, there's a whole new perspective when he stopped being and just try to understand, and that's a risk that we're taking here. And I think I think it will pay off. My name is Evans e woman. This is Evan. I am a producer at incongruity media months before Jack. Luna became involved in monster. Oh, we are busy at work imagining what this new show could be monster was different from certain scale. Because it's a singular focus certain scale comes at the story from multiple different angles and gives you all the details. Montrose approaches it from the mindset of the killer. You're you're in the killers shoes you step into their life their hometown, you're living in their home. You're growing up with them. And then you're also reliving some of the most gruesome acts of humanity at first I didn't know exactly how he would pull this off. I just knew we wanted to create something unlike anything we'd ever heard before. We wanted to create a podcast that we wanted to hear when Mike I approach me about this. I, you know, my first thought was you know, whatever you want boss will do it. But once I actually started getting into it. I was a little hesitant. Just because of how you know sick and twisted. Some of this subject matter can be and you know, sometimes I found myself a little a little lost down the rabbit holes. We say, so I think as much of a part of Arman that I became or as much of a part of me that Arben McCain you can since then through the storytelling in the beginning. We wanted to pick some of the most disturbing stories that we could find, and there's a lot that we can't share on sort and scale because certain scales clip based so we took these stories usually from the far corners of the earth. We couldn't share those either due to the language barrier or due to the last. Lack of audio or due to the age of the story, and we wanted to share these. So we had to recreate what happened without the aid of existing audio to develop an immersive seen. I wanted to be able to give the audience everything that's going on not just you typically narration of inside the mind of the character. But I also took the sights and sounds and the harder to convey, smells, even for instance, the train scene in the beginning when we're introducing burned the trains coming in from a distance as we're describing the similarities in color between the grey sky in the silver train. The sound starts to build in the background of the train wheels and the engine, and then you hear the hiss of the breaks. And before you realize I mean, you're in the episode your burnt your. Standing next burned on the track waiting for that nine o'clock train to castle. That's what I enjoy about this show is that it's so immersive because of the layers of audio and music, and you're not listening to it. Your feeling you're living it so every time I found myself in a place with this character. I'd ask myself. You know, what do you see would you smell? What you feel is it cold? Is there a taste in the air? Those little details. Really pull in listener those little details. Create the story. I remember being forced to go outside to get things done these days questionable. Introvert can stay indoors in order. Just about anything they need, right. Karen, Karen came in the mail a couple of months ago. She's a real doll. I call her my forever sweetheart. But lately, she's been a little quiet. Too, quiet. Garrod wanna say, hi, I know what it is. It's your hair, isn't it? How the hell was I supposed to know that beat use would make it purple? I'm not a professional, but I found a way girl Madison read my friends with fading ends and questionable roots. This is how we can get this done from home that got her attention. She just fell at share their up, see daisy care bear. There used to be two options. Head over to the salon and dropping him certain amount of money to get the right color or grab a box from the drugstore and pray that you did it right Madison Reed. Clients rave of how their new hair color is changed their lives for the better women. Love the results gorgeous, shiny multidimensional looking hair. This is great hovering game changing color. You can do at home. 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And you know, this particular story there there really wasn't all that much. I mean, and you didn't need it you need what you need to know is that he had a farm house. You know, he had access to the internet his parents passed away, and he was close to them. And that he wanted to eat a man, and from there, you know, you have them sitting there cracking bottles of wine and setting the mood and all that kind of stuff, and and his intimidation leading up to what was actually going to go on it kinda wrote itself. It's a it's a great story. It's amazing. I always thought that I need boatloads of information to be able to create an episode for my podcast turns out you just need enough. You know, you need to know what the crime was he needed a little bit of background information. How it finished? And you could do the rest. That's what we've done. And this first episode about Arman is much more graphic than a lot of the rest of the series. Yeah. It's it's a real punch in the gut. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I didn't write this Tyler bell who the two of us in writing almost all the other episodes any. No, this is let's be honest. This is very homo erotic or. No, it's like, and I can't take any credit for that enforce him a huge fan of homo erotic fiction. That's what I hear. Yeah. I just you know, I'm glad it and had to put my spin on this one like Tyler. And I we've worked together quite a bit. When I walk into the rooms that he's created, you know, the rooms of which is my part to adjust accentuate or tidy up. It's always familiar, but with what you guys did with Armand. I would have walked in and been like, you know, what the fuck are you guys doing in here? You know, all over the room. You know, like this is fucking madness. This is crazy. It's just and I'm not, I'm not homophobic. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I grew. I actually grew up around a lot of a lot of gay people. But that's a lot of homo erotica going on this story, man, it's wild. And I didn't have to turn it off for that reason. I had to turn off just for how like you said how graphic it is like chewing chewing somebody's penis off of your teeth. Like holy fuck, dude. Or trying to one of the challenges that I had because I did a lot of the editing this one, right? And like, you said Evan wrote the majority of it, but there's a lot of editing that had to occur because when I got it there were so many different ways that the word penis was described. Right. That it it was it started to feel almost comical in a way, even though it's there's nothing really funny about this story. But it's it got to that point where I mean, there's only so many ways you can describe. A dick and. And they were all in this story originally, and it just started to feel a little. Like inappropriately comical. Yeah. Just because I guess Dick's are funny. Not when you cut him off your victim and burn them. And they look like a frigging overcooked hotdog and all that stuff globally and go too far that way, so my my fiance's shift, and I asked her how do you cook steak specifically if I wanted to cook, I don't know a bull penis, and she said, it would be really sinewy. And I said I'm stealing that word, and it is in the it's in the episodes, sinewy, Google it. If you don't know what that means. It just means to is all get out. So so there's a situations where I I'm not I'm not a good cook. Like to dabble, I would try to convince someone coming over to my house that I am good cook. But imagining cooking human flesh, let alone a phallus that was difficult. So basically, I just kind of try to imagine something else and describe it in a horrible way. So I mean, but if you think about it cooking any slam me. It's kind of gross. So you can I mean, if you just put your put your mind into that into that set the blood and the the flash in the just it's it's it's primeval burning and cooking flesh. I dunno. So you've heard you've heard the term. It's it's so believable. It's got to be true. I didn't make that up. That's the actually the meal he had the Princess croquet potatoes. Which is apparently a popular way to prepare it in Europe. I had to look up. You know, exactly what that is. And it just seems like regular potatoes to me. So I just imagine, you know, his, you know, this guy lives alone. He's got a giant house. He's lonely. He goes in the kitchen. He cooks a meal offer himself, and he sets the table. And he's you know, if he sits he sets the table for one with the best dinner where I magic, you know, like when you're when you're alone, and you're stuck in that repetition that grind that. He had at that point. It's life get up go to work, come home. See the neighbors. You know, go home go to bed wake up do all over again that you know, you probably cope with that. Loneliness some strange ways and extravagant dinner parties by himself is one of them. You know, when you look at the story the way that we did from arms war perspective. Suddenly you have a coming of age tale. Like, a love story, almost you know, these two in a strange way, we were soulmates not based on love. But based on what their fantasies were, you know? And yes, we could explain for bird's eye view. What went down on that farm house and have a pretty compelling episode? But. Like, he said, you know, sitting at the table with Armand as you set the table lights a candle and quirks. The wine really drives home how how normal he was. But how home and his fantasies were were way out there. And there's probably very few arm and Mavis out there in the world, you'd think right? Well, there's there's probably very few of either of these characters, and I like what you said about it being sort of a almost a just tragic love story because it's true. I mean, these two people there's probably only one of them in the entire history of the universe. And they found each other through the internet one who wants to eat someone and one who wants to be eaten. I mean, what are the odds? What are the very low? I mean. Yeah. I mean, a lot of them the he was reaching out to online they had the fantasy part of it. They weren't actually going to go through with it. But you know, burn was was willing to go, and you know, at some. Ear almost start to wish them all the best. You know, you crazy kids go for do you grab life for the balls? Or, you know. Well, I mean, you're doing it with your teeth there, buddy relaxed, but whatever makes them happy. You know? That's how I felt. I don't know if I lotta people will feel that way. But I had no problem with it. You know, they're both into it messed up as it sounds. I look back on it now. And I kinda think about him fondly. I mean eight a guy, but if you watched in read as much about him as I did preparing to write this episode, especially his posting Carson nation interview. I don't know. He's just a likable guy. I mean, he's a little creepy. I mean, especially if you know what he did. But I wanted to portray him that way. Because I thought it was a little more a little more disturbing to the listener. By the time, you get to the end, and you find out exactly what he's been planning on doing. And how he goes about doing it. It's disgusting in its own right? But at that point in the story, you've almost developed a sympathy for him his loneliness burned on the other hand is not a sympathetic character. There's a line in the story where he says he's accustomed to lying, and he covers up the fact that he's leaving and going to be with Armin his subversive lifestyle was hidden from everyone he knew so by the time you meet him and he's running away from his dad his boyfriend his career, essentially disappearing. He's not a very like. Character. Even though he's the victim any, and, you know, he might typical story arc you know, that would be the sympathetic character. I'm glad you said that because I was about to ask you, how do you feel about? Let's say Arman who is. I mean, technically the killer here. D- d-, feel empathy form at some point. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if empathy form, but I just feel the same way. I feel like anybody who has any different fantasies than I do like, I'm not a homosexual. But I don't care if you if you like men are if you like women, I really don't care if you're into eating people and you're into being eaten go nuts. I mean who wasn't any of my business? They were both willing participants. You know, that's that is truly my opinion. So I take it you see this more as a cyst suicide then murder. I don't think the burn was even I mean know if he really wanted to I guess he wanted to die. It's not so much. He wanted to die. He wanted the experience that the most intense possible sexual experience that he could possibly have. And the most intense just so happen to include him having to die. So I think his fantasy was assisted more. So than his suicide to be honest. You know, you know, you want those scifi movies with his Topi and futures. And and there's there's a societies like like the society he belongs to and that's where you know. Maybe maybe it's okay. If somebody gave him permission. How do I feel about it it certainly disturbing? And I think that's the worst part is where does he go from there from my basic research about criminal minds it always escalates. And so I'm intially his one rule of willing. Participants would be broken and even in the story. Even in the story. He he run he starts running out of burned way before he thought he would. And immediately starts rolling the internet looking for, you know, new participants. If he couldn't find one, you know, the next step. This is an unwilling participant. It's it's it's it's a it's a very interesting case man, it is in is. It is one that makes you wonder what how you really feel about. How far how far you go with being tolerant of of some of the fantasies of others in your own mind. And and as a society, how far should we go to be accepting of someone else's fantasies when it can result in an ending this? Yeah. Yeah. Again, if burns okay with I'm okay with it. I didn't touch on the legality of it very much in this story because it's it's not really what what it's about. But that's the big question you're left with is. This was a willing participant. I mean in the United States, we had, you know, doctor Kevorkian this was assisted suicide, basically sure he did it in the most bizarre and macabre way possible hanging from the ceiling and quartering him like any other animal. You lied to slaughter murdered with permission, and they actually had to change the law in Germany just to be able to put this guy in jail. So he he was originally only. Charged or only sentenced to eight years in prison on some bogus charge that you know, they could come up with or the best charge. I could come up with was like manslaughter or something like that. But the ended up changing it, and so well, technically gross cannibalisms, not illegal and snow laws against it. At least not Germany say ended up changing the largest to be able to put him away for life. And that's where he is now. And who knows what he was thinking once his his penis was cut off. And he was bleeding out. Now, he maybe he was just afraid we don't know. Right. And that would be a shame arm and puts them out of his misery by like, you know, sticking it into a throat and all that. So if he wanted to go that exact way when we're not sure either. So he signed up for it though. He showed up he came to arm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I think that's going to do it for this one. And we'll see a here again in just one day one day for the next story hits you right in the mouth, bam. Bam. Enjoy. We'll see there. Moan stroke is an incongruity media production. The original soundtrack demonstrable is available on I tunes apple music, Amazon Google play Spotify. And just about everywhere else. You listen to music merch, such as t shirts tank tops and caps can be ordered at Munster podcast dot com. If you liked the show, please subscribe and leave us a positive review.