The Small Town Murders /// Part 1 /// 249
Finally, it's back. The wait is over in two thousand fifteen net flicks making a murder introduced the world to Steven Avery and his nephew, Brendan dasy to Wisconsin man whose trials and convictions of a brutal murder lit up the world. The convictions, however, were just the beginning. The next chapter of making a murderer filmmakers, lore Ricciardi, MR demoss explore crucial new evidence and take an in-depth. Look at the post conviction, watch making a murderer part two on October nineteenth, only on Netflix. Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host. Nick in with me as always is a man who does know Kevin McAllister is he is the captain and keep the change filthy animal. It's good to be seen as good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling friends. This week, we are drinking brick, kiln, bourbon barrel aged by the fabulous folks, Jackie O's brewery, grad grade. We need a trumpet sound for when we do this because we don't do it very often. But here you go. Five at a five bottlecaps. This is a delicious barley wine age in the one and only Woodford reserve barrels one of the best bourbons out there, but please keep in mind. Brick kiln has an AB of eleven point, eight percent. So you drink this one at home or in your garage and stay off the roads. All right. This week's beer was brought to us by first up a huge. Thank you in a big shout out to Paula m and I think Paula is in Maryland, but I'm not sure. So we will give her residency in the beautiful town of parts. Unknown big. We like you to Anna and Poland. Next we have John from Vermont Johnson, Vermont is the craft beer capital. Also, Vermont, we have gale and big shots, Charlotte and Berlin, Germany. Next up, we have a lease in Jonesboro, Arkansas last, but not least we have Mandy in San Antonio, Texas Mandy you came in. You gave with that the game. Captain. I'm going to give that trumpet sound a big garage one and a half bottle caps out of. All right. Everybody check us out at true crime, garage dot com. Join in the conversation on our blog. We talk about each of the cases there. Check out the store page, check out the recommended page, and if you want fool archives, if you want the old great episodes, true crime Dhiraj check us out on the Stitcher app and check out our new show are awesome show only available on Stitcher premium off the record, and that is enough of the be is sets right? Everybody gathered around, grab share, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Logan just about fifty miles away from Columbus, the heart of Ohio back in nineteen eighty-two Logan's population was just a touch over sixty five hundred salt of the earth. People carving out an existence in southeastern Ohio. Logan is arguably one of the most beautiful areas in Ohio Ashkaeli cedar falls. And of course, the Hocking hills state park. These are gorgeous sceneries and landscapes. But as we all know, evil can lurk anywhere even in the most beautiful of living spaces. Evil can be waiting for you in the caves or stalking you on the hills. Often, evil is even closer to home than any of us would dare to believe. There was much excitement for the people of Logan back in the fall of eighty two on October. Second, Logan, hosted their annual fall festival of bands, a gathering of some of a high owes best high school marching bands, and later that month trick or treat beggars night and Halloween. Greg Schultz described the time saying when I grew up, we had the run of the town because it was a small town. We take off in the morning, BA gone all day and come back home at night. When the street lights came on, you went home. Everyone kept an eye on us. The youth of nineteen eighty-two Logano high O-share the same sentiment. They had never heard of horrific murders before other than from the fictional slasher films of their day. But that all changed in early October. When the drains killers from the movie seemingly jumped off of the movie theater screens and into the hills of Logan causing the public to panic and wonder where the murders of a smart well liked young couple, an isolated incident, or was it a sign of what was to come this week? We discussed the murders that terrified community and left more victims. Than we will ever know. Margaret and net Cooper later in life. She would go by the beautiful name of a net and that was born June eleventh nineteen sixty four Zeena, Ohio. And that was a pretty blonde many referred to her as a local beauty. Other said she had a bit of a troubled pass after high school. She was off to Hocking college and eighteen year old student full of life and dreams, and as of October nineteen eighty two. And that was in a year long relationship with nineteen year old. Todd Schultz, Todd from Nelson Ville. Hi. Oh, he was born just less than a year before net and their relationship was pretty serious. What started off as a courtship, based off of mostly physical attraction had blossomed into a possible wedding engagement. Todd's mother said the two had not made it official, but they were certainly talking about it. Now. Todd was a good kid with the Grayson's of humor, and everybody said that he loved children. After high school, he went to vocational school and studied graphic design. It was well known that Todd was quite the photographer. He hoped to find a career where he could get into something where he could take pictures and write articles. Todd was nineteen years old and a volunteer firefighter. There are typical teenage couple from a typical small town. Now leading up to Tober nineteen eighty-two net was living with Todd and his family at Todd's parents house. She shared a room, Todd sister, Kendra an came from what some if not, most locals referred to as a strange family, and that's family was for the most part considered to be outsiders to the people and the community of Logan. And anyone from Logan will tell you that still to this very day that most people born and raised in Logan, don't much care for transplants or outsiders and that Scholtz her stepfather. Dale Johnson was very much considered to be an. Outsider by the locals of Logan. Several years before the fall of eighty two Dale Johnson and his wife. Sarah left their previous marriages and together they moved from Zena Ohio to be together and race, heirs to doctors, Michelle, and net question for you. So you're saying that people from Logan don't like outsiders, right? But a lot of people from Logan drive to clump his for work. Right. Okay. Dale and Sarah purchase. Beautiful fifty three acre farm situated on an unpaved road just about ten miles from downtown Logan. It was known to others in the community that Dale and Sarah occasionally embraced a clothing optional lifestyle on their large secluded. Property free Bolland. Dale was a country boy, and he loved being outdoors. So so much so that when the four of them moved to the farm, he his new wife and two stepdaughters. They actually lived in tents for a while. This was to enjoy the land and to hold them over and until their trailer arrived for the property. Once the trailer arrived, they packed up their tents and moved in. They built a barn and used it to house horses, and the horses could often be seen running and drinking from a stream running through the property. But there was a nasty, rumor going around Logan, one that many wished not to discuss, but obviously they did the rumor was that Dale Johnson was molesting his stepdaughter net and it was widely believed. The net was now staying with her boyfriend and the Scholtz family because the rumored accusation might just be true Monday evening, October fourteenth nineteen year old, Todd Scholtz in his eighteen year old girlfriend. Net Cooper left Todd's parents house. They didn't tell anyone where they were going, which was a little out of character. But what was eve. Even more out of character. The two usually very reliable young adults did not return that night to Scholtz home the next morning, Tuesday, October. Fifth, the two still had not returned and Todd's mother. Sandra had a bad feeling. A mother's intuition was telling her something bad had happened, and the feeling was getting worse than stronger as the morning dragged on stressed to her limit. She broke down picked up the phone and called a nets mother, Sarah. She wanted to know if an and perhaps Todd had gone to a nets house the night before or at the very least that morning, did they check the tents there? There were no tense at this time. You don't know that for sure a nets. Mother said, no, she had not seen either of them, but she was not going to let Todd's mom off the hook. She wanted to know why net was living at the Scholtz house and Santa responded abruptly Lau. Loudly because Dale can't keep his hands off of her. And that was pretty much the end of this conversation. Neither one of them happy and both worried about the young couple shortly after the police and local authorities were notified and soon to they would join in the search for Todd and Annette days past in there was still no sign of either of them. Now, no one had seen them nor had either of them called home or showed up to work or school during this time, either family members of the two founded incredibly strange in disconcerting. The couple very rarely went anywhere most of the time. They would just go out for a walk. So defined odd that nets. Parents don't even know why she's not staying there. Not neces-. I mean, I do find it odd, but not at home as I mean, yeah, I do find it a little odd, but not one hundred percent. I mean, thinking back when I was eighteen I didn't. You know, sometimes they didn't come home for a couple of days. I think this is a situation where she probably went over to her boyfriend's houses like they were very much in love and she stayed the night one night. It turned into a couple nights. Next thing. You know, she's there for weeks or maybe even a month, and it sounds to me like her mother didn't wanna rock the boat too much, and it wasn't until she believed that something was wrong that her daughter was missing and her boyfriend was missing as well that she was kind of pushed her limit and decided, hey, yeah, but it wasn't like, hey, I'm just going to stay over at your house. 'cause I like it here better than mine. There was a reason why they're leading her stay there. Yeah. And obviously Todd's parents or at least his mother seemed to believe that. A net stepfather Dale was doing something wrong. I mean, that was that was the statement that was made to the newspapers. And this was a statement that Sarah a nets own mother made to the newspapers said this is a conversation that me and Todd's mother had Sandra was Todd's mother's name, and this is a conversation that we had in this is how it went down. She told the papers that Sanders said that day'll can't keep her hands his hands off of a net, right? But what's not clear as did she have a conversation with the net about that? Or is this just I mean from the rumors town that we don't know what I mean like, well, she says she likes it better over here. We don't mind her stay in here because of these rumors or did she have a conversation with the net about this? Right. And I also wonder too, like. If if Todd's parents really believed that something terrible was going on that had was being molested or whatever bright, it seems to me like they may have done more than just housed this eighteen year old woman that maybe that charges maybe you would recommend, hey, maybe you should press charges against this guy. I, I don't know. You know it was. It wasn't a million years ago, but it was a different time back then, especially when you're talking about a town like Logan sixty five hundred people, right? But here's where things are going to get a little stranger captain because on Saturday, October ninth. This is just about four five days after the, the couple was last seen, Dale Johnson. And at step-father he shows up uninvited and unannounced at the Scholtz house and he's asking a lot of questions wearing clothes, I believe so. Okay. Now besides the expected questions of, have you seen my stepdaughter type things Dale. Demanded that the Scholtz family turnover, any of nets belongings to him specifically asking for a nets. Close. Sandra Schultz refused in said, no. Now when asked why he came to the house to collect a nets clothing. Dale Johnson yelled at Sandra and said, it's because that's all her mom has to remember her by Sandra was shocked by this statement, and she would soon tell police that we meaning the Scholtz family thought that the two teenagers were missing. But Dale was acting like they were dead and he's talking about them in the past tents. She wondered if she wasn't thinking they were dead. Why was why was he thinking that they were dead? Right? So not only did the Scholtz family. Think Dale Johnson impossibly. His wife's hair were acting extremely suspicious, but the police thought, so too one that would be your motive for murder or could be a motive for murder. If everybody in the. Town is suspecting you of molesting your stepdaughter than if you get rid of her, then you can't have those charges brought against you. Well, all fairness to the Johnson family, there was a lot of suspicious behavior going around. In fact, within days of the couple having gone missing the local police department, they were receiving a lot of phone calls. Most of the callers were simply asking for a status update on the case, things like had the couple been located, and if not, did the police have any idea as to where they could be, did the couple run off together or could they have been murdered? And if so, did the police have any suspects? So in fairness, Dale Johnson, people in the town are calling the police in the sheriff's department, and they are asking if the law enforcement thinks that the kids could be could have been murdered. And if so, by whom if they had any suspect. So he and his wife are not the only two that are thinking something bad could have happened to these. Missing to now, some people called in to say that they saw a couple or saw the couple at different times on the evening of October fourth, the night that it is believed that the two vanished the different callers had similar statements. These were potential eye witnesses that saw the couple or at least two young adults matching the couple's description and the couple were in a in the presence of a man. Now, there's a couple different stories here. Captain some of these stories say that they were in the presence of Dale Johnson. Some of the other stories say they were in the presence of an unknown man. Somebody that the I witnessed in no. Obviously, an extensive police search was well underway. Friends. Teachers of the teens were interviewed several giving disturbing reports about Dale Johnston. Some of the interviewee said, Dale Johnson was a was full of jealousy possessiveness over a net and wreck. What they called DALE'S hatred for a nets male France. Sarah Johnson also came under suspicion with several reports coming that can only be called mixed while a lot of these reports are unclear as to the details. But state, Sarah Johnston was seen with the teens and net and Todd the night that they went missing police found the behavior of Dale and Sarah Johnston to be extremely odd. Most noteworthy, the mothers and the stepfather's behavior. In the early interviews when police believed them both to not only be deceptive, but quite unemotional for parents of a missing child right? Win, providing police with items to assist in the search for the teens, Dale and Sarah surrendered nude, photographs of a net. This sent into motion a theory of what happened to the two missing teens. Hold on, say sust lowdown a little bit. So. So the police are talk into the missing girls mother and the missing girls stepfather, and they say, hey, do you have any items that would help us in the search and they go, here's some nudie picks. Yes. So I think I should clean this up a bit because I think you should most of the most of the reports about this case. Sage is simply that that, hey, they actually a lot of the reports state that Dale Johnston gave the police nude photographs of his stepdaughter. Right? I think what has happened this cases. Extremely interesting to me because there is a lot of local legend involved. In this case, there's a lot of folklore and I think that what we have is it's like when you go fishing and you catch a decent size fish and every time you tell nother person about your fishing trip. That fish gets a little bigger and a little bigger and a little bigger. I, I like to make it smaller because. Because by the tenth time you tell it is about this big. Well, I forgot to tell you last time I went, I caught a thirty footer. Yeah. It's it's hanging up on my wall. Now, I think what has happened here captain. I think that in this is just my speculation. I think that the parents provided police and sheriff's with items to help find a net. And I think that they probably provided them with several photographs in amongst those photographs. There may have been one or two photos of net that maybe she wasn't fully dressed. I think over the years, the stories have blossomed into this Dale Johnston handed over nude photos of his stepdaughter or what's gonna set about this cases. She was she was a pretty girl, and so that's the main focus, you know, even read. So earlier's she's very pretty and everybody in town thought she was pretty. And then you talk about the boyfriend and it's like, well, he's really talented and he was smart and, and it's like, because she was, you know, a beautiful girl like by default, that's all people talk about now. So. So the the two are missing, right? And this sets into motion theory of what happened to the two missing teens police used the photographs of a net along with the circulating rumors that Annette stepfather Dale had molested her and must have killed her and Todd Scholtz in either a jealous rage or as a means of covering up the molest Asians, police also theorized that either Sarah and that's mother assisted in one or all of the following, the disappearance murder and the concealment of their remains or at the very least knew about it. Yeah, Logan, police detective, James Thomson is brought in and he begins a crusade against Dale Johnston, believing he is responsible for the teen's disappearance. Each interview with police reveals more details of what police refer to as a sexually dysfunctional Johnston, household, Dale John. Is desperately seeking supporters. So he contacts friend of his who claims to be a psychic. This is Raymond mills, okay, Raymond, using his quote, unquote gifts believes Dale Johnson is the murderer and he publicly sides with police against Dale Johnson. Can you imagine that. So so Dale is desperate for he's desperate for somebody to support him. He's like, I'm being accused of all this stuff. Let me reach out to my buddy. He can see he's the all CNI is a psychic and psychic comes back and says, while my friend, what I see is that you kill them. I'm telling you, man, this is I have to. We have to really look at this for what it is. Especially back then in this town, he, you know, the old black and white Frankenstein movie where where Frankenstein's monster is in the village in the town, people are gathering torches and pick axes, and there's like a mob of people that are going to chase him out of town or kill him. Yeah, this this was a similar man Taliban to these missing teenagers in these rumors that Dale Johnson had molested his stepdaughter. The townspeople are all up in arms. They want Dale Johnson arrested immediately. The shares. Coming after him. The detective is building a crusade against him and within his own four walls of the trailer on his fifty three acre property. He's he's complaining to his wife. Everybody in town thinks that molested and killed these kids and his wife is going Honey. I know you didn't do it, but you're the stepfather. They're going to come after you, right? And you walk around in the nude and you take nudie picks of your stepdaughter. There's rumors happened. They're gonna come after what's also going on. Captain is the police department and the sheriff's office there telephones are ringing off of the hook with conflicting reports some stating that they had heard shots fired in the riverbank cornfield area. And then listen to this. There were reported sightings of mysterious men who appear out of the mist and odd shaped hats. 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Everyone's worst fears were realised to torsos were found floating in the Hocking river police later located a spot from where they believe the two torsos were placed in the river sheriff. James Jones said a path led from that spot in the river to a makeshift burial ground following this path. This led to the discovery of six bloody holes in the cornfield berry. Just a few inches down where the limbs into heads. The heads and limbs were actually located about two days after they found the torsos police theorized that the blood found near some of the holes indicated that the victims may have been slain and dismembered right there. What. Confusing about this report is it says, buried at one point, then it says six bloody holes. So when I think six thirty halls, I'm thinking these holes were dug and then body parts were put into these holes, but there were never filled back in. I think they probably were. I mean, all report stated these these limbs and heads were found buried, just a few inches into the ground. So I do believe that they were buried. I think that this is just a reporter making a description, and you have to keep in mind too. We're talking about this is not right off the roadside. This is out in the middle of nowhere. There's a very good chance that the the description given by the newspaper reporter on October fourteenth or fifteenth of nineteen. Eighty-one never saw that that ground or that area before writing up the article. Now, as I was saying police, they arise at the. Blood found near some of the quote, unquote holes indicated that the victims may have been slain dismembered right there. Then the torsos later dragged to the river officials found no weapons or digging implements in the cornfield. The only clothing found was a pair of socks that authorities could not link to either victim. The bloody pieces facilitated positive identification of two nude, human torsos removed from the Hocking river. Now, this means that the the limbs in the head matched that of the two torsos that they found right, and they recovered the bodies of nineteen year old Todd Scholtz eighteen year old. A net Cooper, Logan residents stunned by the gruesome deaths, talked in small groups near the river after the discovery. And one resident actually told a reporter that quote, there's never been anything as grotesque as this. What do you think that all means a mean? You're gonna. You're going to bury limbs, but that you're going to have the torsos go in to the river. You think that's a symbol of something I don't know. And I can only imagine what the rumors would be or what kind of stories. So people have to try to make sense of this right? This is never happened in in this area before, and so that's why these small groups of people are meeting near this area. They wanna see what's coming out of there. What police in what people were pulling out of there, but they're, they're also going to theorize and come up with their own theories as to why do we find dismember torsos in the river and then we found some parts buried elsewhere. Yeah, almost seems like a symbol of something from the killers perspective, it could be. I think it probably looks that way to the citizens of Logan. However, from the killers perspective, to me, it looks more like just trying to conceal the the bodies themselves. I mean we're talking nineteen eighty two. I don't know when the first murder conviction without a body being recovered occurred in this state or in the country. But at one point, if you didn't have a body, there was no, there was no murder. There was no murder trial by, but you'd have the limbs 'cause they're bearing the limb. So if you found the limbs. Well, yeah. But I mean, it's obviously trying to conceal all pieces in parts of these individuals. Now, the Logan residents, they also said to the newspapers that the bodies were just too well hid. This is a quote, the bodies were just too well hid. It must be somebody local. I think that's very telling of where they found these torsos and topsy was performed on the torsos in Franklin county. The other body parts were sent to the coroner's office for examination hockey counting coroner, Dr. Robert Rouch said that the two were shot today. Death, and he was quote not at liberty to divulge further details about the shootings. Logan police said they are working the case. The Scholtz's asked the police to release whatever information they can about the slayings saying, quote, we feel people should know what really happened. So parents can watch out for their children said MRs Scholtz and we don't want somebody else to go through. What we've had to go through positive identification is made using dental records of both of these individuals with f. b. i. ballistics expert claiming twenty two caliber bullets killed the victims and alleged boop. Rindt is discovered in shallow water near the riverbank and the county is on high alert with a mandatory nine pm curfew on the day when the limbs were found a police officer guarding and securing the location, he sees a man lurking in the corner. Stocks. This turns out to be Kenny Lyn Scott. He's a local man twenty two years old and he's nursing a badly cut arm. Now, this is not a fresh cut police question. This man right there in the cornfield Kenny Lyn Scott lived nearby and was known to police as a small time drug dealer. He is referred to as a local river rat someone that has always fishing in the river and hunting in the nearby fields. Police of course want to know what he's doing in the cornfield near the crime scene, but he simply is out hunting and had seen all of the police in the area wanted to know if they were looking for the missing teens there. And if they found anything regarding KENNY'S arm, he had cut it on a broken window, received medical attention at a hospital shortly afterward after the heinous fine of the body parts news crews, swarmed the religiously tight-knit ca. Immunity. And the story is broadcasted nationally in the county is now on high alert. Searching the crime scene continues and additional interviews with victims. Parents are taking place as said, they had used dental records to positively ide- the bodies after positive identifications are made. This sets Don Scholtz Todd's father into a frenzy. He is convinced as many others are in Logan that Dale Johnson killed his son. So Don Scholtz gets his rifle jumps in his truck and drives out to the Johnson property. Google again, that's right there with gun in hand, he demands that Dale turn himself in and confess to the double homicide. Now, let's go through this double murder investigation because most of the reports out there that still exist, they don't tell you what was going on as far as the investigation goes. Most reports don't tell you the true story of the investigation. Now captain. I don't. Want to go through everything in great detail because we would end up doing eight episodes on this case. But what I will tell you is this anyone that followed this case back in nineteen eighty two will agree with me. The investigation in the events that took place in Logan after they found the bodies. Well, to be quite Frank, it was a damn circus down there. So with you have a victim's father going off to another victims stepfather and say, turn yourself in him by gun point. That's pretty pretty nuts Allred. And despite the police already stating that they think the missing teens were killed in the cornfield where the body parts were found brain. They also have a 'nother theory one that the officers in charge believed very strongly, and that is Dale had shot and killed the teens at his farm butchered them bag their bodies through their torsos in the river and buried the rest of the remains in the cornfield. And as. As the motive is Johnson had sexually molested his stepdaughter and was jealous about her impending marriage. So please have this theory, but as their crime scene at stepfather's house, not that we're aware of and it's it's one of those weird situations where you have you have investigators that are publicly stating two opposing theories, you know, they publicly state that, hey, there's enough blood in the cornfield that we believe that these victims were killed here and dismembered here. But the working theory that we're we're rolling with that we're investigating is Dale Johnson, killed them at his farm butchered him at his farm bagged the bodies and brought them to this area, right? Even though we don't have evidence of that yet, correct. Well, under questioning, Dale and his wife, Sarah and Sarah's other daughter, Michelle, they denied all the accusations. And what I mean by that is they denied any knowledge about the disappearance, the murders dismembering, the burial. And the molest Asian. Right? You know. So we have Dale, of course, we're going to have Dale saying, yes, I didn't molest my stepdaughter, but we also have his wife and the stepdaughters biological sister real sister stating that stuff was not going on. I know it's rumored, but that was not happening here. And then there was Kevin Meyer. So detective, Robert Snyder from Columbus, Ohio, police departments, organized crime squad. He becomes unofficially involved in the case, believing that Kevin Meyer is the killer. This is twenty six year old. Kevin Meyer a strange individual by all reports, I could find, and a butcher by trade with mental problems is reported by his employers, Jill and Dan fray. So the dude with mental problems has the job of handling the sharp knives. Yes. So Jill, Dan fray become involved with this investigation when they were. Port, they report that they believe that their employees was involved in this, and then we have a local woman who wished to stay anonymous and using the alias. Jane Doe gives a detailed account of seeing the victims talking with a peculiar looking older man fitting. The description of Kevin Meyer the this is on the evening when the two teens went missing. We do have to point out though captain sheriff Jones who is running the showdown there. He is friends with Kevin Meyer in defends his friend publicly. Now, one of the more bizarre theories, demon. Allah, just Jeff hilson becomes involved in the case by giving his theory to the media in which he stated that he believes that a group of drug using satanist butchered, the young couple FBI agent, Herman Henry is brought in and gives a psychological profile of the killer. This profile. Does not steer them away from anyone already mentioned right. Sheriff Jones continues to publicly defend his friend Kevin Meyer and by now has become uncooperative with the FBI and detective Snyder from Columbus to know anything about this profile. Like what entails I do not. I did not could not find the details of other than stated just what what we had said, all the persons named publicly or named to the media as potential suspects, whether they were suspects of the actual investigation or just by the people of Logan. It didn't rule any of them out, right? We what we have here though captain is we got sheriff Jones. We have the f. b. i. we have detective Snyder. We have several different agencies working this investigation as said, sheriff Jones is running the show, but plain and simple. What we have right now is we have three different agencies and all. All of them are not agreeing on a prime suspect. You know, sheriff Jones thinks Dale Johnston, did it agent Henry thinks Johnson is not the guy and detective Snyder believes that the sheriff's friend Kevin Meyer is the killer and Kevin's employers continue to report him to police revealing more bizarre reasons why he is the killer. They haven't fired him yet. Yeah, it's a little strange that they would. I don't know that they are publicly stating the Kevin Meyer. They believe him to be the killer brighter. If they're just calling the cops behind the scenes. Well, they've they've at least reported this to the Columbus PD Mitch. Now, keep in mind is almost an hour's drive away. The reason how this comes about is that the the, the lady that is the employer of Kevin Meyer. I think her brother-in-law she somehow related to this detective that she says, hey. I think this weird guy that works for me who also happens to be a butcher is the killer one because she's not publicly stayed in the stuff. We don't know actually what this weird stuff. This weird guys doing. We have to really understand focus on what's going on in this area. At this time. This is a media circus down there. Okay. We have a town of only sixty five hundred people and after the bodies are found chopped up, which there's really no nice way to put it. I apologize, but that's the case. But then some could argue, well, Kevin has the means to chop them up. I mean, just based off of his job yet, but what what where I'm going with this is that it's a media circus down there. This is like the Casey, Anthony, Scott Peterson situation where we have everybody looking for a killer and all this media comes to town and probably not as much media, but it's also much smaller town than. Where Casey Anthony was from her or Scott Peterson was from, but what you obviously have is everybody wanting to become involved in this case amount. There's a giant spotlight on the small town of Logano Hieaux and a lot of people want to push their way to the forefront and be in that spotlight. And so everyone somehow feels connected to the case and they feel like they have an opinion and something to say regarding the case on, there's definitely some suspicious stuff with the stepfather Ming talking about his stepdaughter past tense. That's little odd. You know the rumors around town. We don't know if those are true or not, but those are those are some damning rumors if you're molesting your step daughter. Well, and I think that's exactly what you have here. Okay, we've seen this. The thing that is so interesting and intriguing about this real life case is that so many times on television and in movies. This. Situation is imitated. And what I mean by that is think about this, we have the local guy, the sheriff Jones. He knows the area. He's the man in charge, and he's been enforcing the law and Logan for a long time. I am the law. And of course, who does he think killed this couple. It's it involves local rumors. It involves a guy that lives there that was under his watch that he says, you know what? I've heard all the rumors about this guy. I believe them to be true. He's an outsider that came in here and he's not only an outsider by by moving and transplanting into Logan. He's an outsider in the sense that guy walks around with his clothes off, but I don't get him. I don't understand him. He's a weird. Oh, so he is a suspect under the local sheriff's is and then you have the FBI agent agent Henry comes into town and he says, you know what? I'm not going to get consumed by local rumor bright. I'm. I'm I'm of a better class of law enforcement in the sense I'm from the FBI I'm the bed or law. Well, I'm going to come into the area and I'm going to use my experience to actually hone in on a real suspect. I'm not going to allow local rumor to point me in the direction. I'm going to use the facts and the evidence of the case. And really we don't have a ton of evidence. I mean, we have possibly these socks that are left by the crime scene where they think the crime scene could happen the cornfield and then we have this boot or was awesome imprint. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, that's pretty much all they got going form right now. There's not a lot of evidence, and there's a lot of speculation. And what I mean by that is not just by f. b. i. r. law enforcement. It's by the locals and the locals are not only telling the media about who they think did this. They're calling the police department in the sheriff's department. I mean, can you imagine the phone calls that they're getting right. We have a demon quote, unquote. Demon knowledge is that comes to the area and says, look, here's what actually happened. A group of drug induced satanists killed and butchered these kids, right? But there is no evidence other than possibly the mutilation that would lead this for anybody to believe that this is a satanic ritual or some type of maybe the six holes, six, six, six. Maybe that would be some sign. Well, I think that what we have here is really the mutilation to the bodies. The dismemberment is something that is so foreign to this area it, you know, there are, unfortunately, there's a lot of murders out there who start podcast. Most of the time, the person that kills the victim doesn't go to the length of of cutting them up into small pieces and that is horrifying that that is something that has does not sit well with. With any of us, right? We don't. We most of us can't comprehend how somebody could dissect somebody like that. And so therefore I think that you try to make sense out of it, the community as a whole tries to make sense out of it. And that's when you have people coming forward and saying, well, listen to what the kids are listening to these days. It's, you know, listen to the music that's out these days. All these kids are doing drugs these days. It's gotta be a bunch of satanist. It's the only thing that makes sense to some of the people in the community. And so where we have no evidence that there is any type of to use a term from the west Memphis, three satanic trappings. What did they call that? The say, Tanic droppings they called it something like that. The trappings of a ritual Listrik killing dropping or sacrafice killing, but. Where we don't have any true evidence of that. You can have people coming out of the woodwork that are going like you just said, was there six holes? Will that must mean six. Six, right. Well, was the was the hand separated from the forearm? Well, that must mean that must mean something. And anytime you. Decapitate somebody that means that's a satanic trapping and where we have no real evidence of that. We also don't have any real evidence that Dale Johnston killed these kids other than rumors really is the Tanic crap anything more than a rumor know. And as far as his, his family states, as far as Dale Johnson's wife in other stepdaughter state, all of the rumors of him molesting the murder victim. Annette are nothing more than rumors. Just like the satanic panic going on nothing more than a rumor. There's no evidence. There's nobody stating that they had witnessed that happen. And so the problem with this double homicide here. I don't know. I don't know that I would claim this to be that we have a bunch of keystone cops that don't know what they're doing. I don't think that's the situation here. Yes, is murder a rarity there? Yes. Is the dismemberment of the bodies super rare, one hundred percent. You have the towns people saying, we've never seen anything like this before. Never even heard of anything like this before, but at the same time, I think really what is happening here in this very moment is that they are getting so many people coming forward stating so many different things from different ends of the spectrum of what could be a possible good lead to something that might just be crazy talk. They have people coming to the police department, the sheriff's department stating I saw some guys that just seem to appear out of nowhere with weird hat. They're wearing funny hats. I think they were in the cornfield out and they must to kill those kids. 'cause I've. Seen them before and maybe they were demons. Maybe they were ghost. I don't know. That's the kind of calls that they're getting. Right. And where I think that this thing goes goes off the rails of it. And I say that and I laugh to myself because it's very, obviously already off the rails. And plus you find yourself Klarius. But I think that there was probably some truth in some of those earlier statements given to police and some of those earlier calls that were fed in as possible leads. Some of them were truthful, and some of them were just wrong. And the problem I think we had here is who knows which lead to follow when you receive a ton of them, some of them are completely crazy. Some of them are complete may be completely right, but on the surface until you investigate until you look at each one of those, you can't tell which is which. Lot more to get into tomorrow. If you haven't been checking out our show off the record you need to. It's it's heating up like they say, it's heating up. Garage hits a huge hit. It's a big hit and Sweden big hit and Channa. So check that out at Stitcher, premium dot com. Backslash true crime garage use promo code garage Raj. So check that out and until tomorrow be good become and don't let.