The Third Corey - 183
Fred stood out you heretic. I'm dan i'm doug and this is your users guide to life on the outside yes sir. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of abuts. it can also be a scary world things differently. Now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio and with help from good friends and experts all sorts of fields. We're gonna share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all. You only get the one that we know so you better making gentlemen. Hello hello hello. How are you hope. I'll just just so so good. Good i i am reaching out to you from my 'isolation my solitary in tower in toronto in it's wonderful by that's right i look at this. I can actually leave the room that i'm in. I unlike you cannot under under federal mandates soon enough soon enough anyway. What a show despite us being a divided by border we are not divided by anything else. I don't know what that means. But today i am going to talk about some very scary geometry. I however am going to talk about a cool guy in a really really stupid book. The accidental hero of a book. Right exactly yeah. And then i am going to take on the anti vaccine movement a they exist so quick note. We realized that we all had so much great information this week. We're running really long so to any patrons who jumped in this past week and i know we have. We haven't i know we have to. We want to beg your indulgence to push that off till next week and we will give you all the love then but we just wanna keep the show under twelve hours today. So yeah if everybody's cool with that. Let's do it uncle dan. Well hello You know when. I when i was younger and i was in elementary school. Think maybe junior high school. I read the quote by lincoln about better angles of our of our character and i never heard it spoken out loud so for several years i was left trying to figure out what exactly that meant. You got the wind. You got the one under your arm and then the elbow one just assume that whatever angle you have you wanna make sure it's a right one. Yeah he was very into ninety degrees. But i think oncle marquez. Some something to talk about the not so great angles. He's are not the great angles. These are not the better angels of our nature. Let me tell you so you know we try to have some fun on this. Show guys we. We try to laugh at the absurd and silly every chance we get. That's great but sometimes when you sit out to make a podcast about the comedic side of cults and craziness the colts and craziness outweighs the comedy just a little bit and while there is some funny stuff about today's very peculiar subject. There is some very very not funny stuff about it as well. So let's laugh and then let's talk for a while Content warning there are references to sexual violence and sexual violence against children in this segment. Help me if this is another anthill thing. I am leaving the podcast. It feels like it's gonna go that way but it doesn't go all the way there. So hey yeah so. It's not graphic descriptions like it was with the hill kids just a mention of it so but it's kind of impossible to tell the story without it so be warned so we've talked before on the show about the satanic panic that not really over nationwide hysteria of the nineteen eighties and nineties. That drove this city at country. Well that one. I'm not there at the moment. I'm in canada. Out of its uptight. Mind and saw masses of false accusations arrests imprisonments and other assorted bullshit for a primer on. Please refer back to episode twenty three well sort of satanists that actually rape kidnap and murder people at random that were the shadowy villains for this decades long long. Cultural nightmare didn't really exist but a pin that for just a minute. The sweetness that were around were mostly adherence and imitators of the church of satan. The brainchild of the hard to take seriously anton levay the church of saint was really instill as just another expression of sixties counterculture and Rejection of the stuffy conservative stifling american culture that preceded it The church of satan is mostly a hedonistic movement of pure individuality inspired by among others. The works of ayn rand you can listen to doug segment on her. What a wonderful person. She wasn't episode ninety and while many accused them of being kind sexist and pricks online. They aren't kidnapping anyone's babies for human sacrifices in the forest. That's not who they are right and more recently. Of course most people will be familiar with the satanic temple featured in last year's wonderful documentary hail satan and co founded by lucian greaves whom we spoke to an episode sixteen loosen in the satanic temple are the farthest thing from the murderous cannibals haunting the long dark american night of the nineteen eighty s. They are in fact. Merry pranksters and first amendment heroes haunting southern and square state legislatures with their truck mounted bathroom at statue trying to fend off the worst accesses of creeping christian nationalism child-murdering bad guys. They are certainly not that we know about that. We lucian. you've been served your on blast. Keep it tight lucien. they They they've used our -rageous religion prison religious presumptions in this country as an act of judo. Against those who ceaselessly abuse it so well played the satanic temple. Well remember when. I said those be movies satanic warlocks who kill and rape at random didn't exist. Well it turns out they kind of do and just to give the devils lily. Aren't madly violent. Nazis isn't that fun guys get. You had me at ardent madly violent nazi. So today we pay a visit to the satanic that could cause that should cause some panics. The order of nine angles or the oh nine a. If you're nasty. The order of nine angles is a pretty weird little outfit for a variety of reasons. The semi mysterious people that have authored. It's literatures literature and occasionally spoken for it have purposely surrounded it in loads of mystery and autobiographical legend alleged to have been founded in the late sixties by an unnamed woman in the west of england when she brought together three separate satanic temples and covens in the early seventies. a man who called himself anton long joined and in short order had risen through. Its ranks. those being neophyte initiate external adapt internal adept master grandmaster and immortal to become its master longhand wrote thousands of pages laying out the philosophy and magical with a k. practices defining the order as a highly secretive left hand path practice to reach the gods of the a causal room. It's a morpheus anarchistic and totally decentralized they follow what's called the path matthaus the path of suffering to come to know themselves to become masters of the causal realm and eventually masters of the aac causal realm as. Well i shall explain below. It wasn't really until the nineteen eighties. The oh nine. A really even made itself known by publishing articles in already existing occultist. And far right nationalist magazines it also began distributing its founding scriptures most notably the black book of satan and its own magazine ferrier named for the fierce wolf of norse mythology much of the literature was written by anton long and an artist and musician who went by christos beast but has been identified as richard moult. I should also also note that. Most scholars and journalists who studied nine a far more than i have identify anton long as very fascinating and peculiar man whose real name is david miot some disagree including my it himself who vehemently denies any association with the oh nine a going so far as to challenge journalist who said he was to a duel with the nazi dagger. Sound like something someone from the. Oh nine eight i mean. That's just he protested to little but the preponderance of evidence seems to support. It is in fact my it. But we'll call him anton long for for the most part in here Unlike the church of satan or the satanic temple the order of nine angles very much believe in the theistic evil satan and with him pantheon of so-called dark dodds including a sinisterly female version of baffled. Matt who in their version looks very much like the hindu god of destruction kali Who will bring about a violent revolution that allows for a new system of racially superior tribal warlord governments called the imperium and that golden age of hellish violence and total destruction of the former magin nazarene as they call it basically their term for judeo-christian of the magic nazarene order that has enfeebled and poisoned the natural violence of the human spirit preventing ascendancy to uber manche. And then in this mad max. Version of the future will set out to conquer and colonize. The galaxy led by the dark lord. The dark. god vindicates into a neo-pagan hitlerian interstellar satanic eternity. You had vendex. Where do i sign. That was a that was quite a sentence. A lot Yeah i was trying to distill it down to the the essence. And i think i got there so i think so. I didn't understand any of what you said. But i think you nailed it so the oneida believes there have been five aons of men each one lasting around two thousand years the primal the hyper boren for some more. Wholesome nazi content. Check out our segment on hyper-area episode one forty eight the sumerian the hellenistic and the current one. The western each ends and a few hundred years of increased authoritarianism and militarism and this a owns period of dictatorship they predict will begin sometime between nineteen ninety and two thousand eleven and will ask them tell twenty three ninety so any minute ten years ago now right at that point will You know up until this year. It seems like they kind of had a guy you know he figures very very prominently with a lot of these neo nazi satanic people like trump really. They saw as the guy which should come as no surprise. So at that point we'll we'll commence the sixth grade age. The a on a fire their own new satanic timescale begins in the year eighteen eighty nine. The birth year of middling watercolor colorist turned eager. European real estate tycoon adolf hitler. They have praised hitler's reich. As quote a practical expression of satanic spirit. a burst of lusa therrien lights obssessed in power in an otherwise nazarene pacified. Boring world. boy. I never thought i would hear the word zesty applied to the third reich. Yeah citrusy also nazarene being used like i'd or whatever is an interesting phrasing nazarene bay just weakened us it made us all feeble and weirdly for jew hyper violent racists. They are adamant in their holocaust. Denial saying it was a myth constructed by the magin nazarene world order to denigrate the nazis and therefore discredit them. It's so weird to me. How some of the most rabid neo nazis who foment for another holocaust feel the need to deny the actual one. Yeah no it's so crazy. So people in occult circles used to joke about the The order of nine angles of night angles as the order of no members Which is funny and true because they may be had a dozen members for a decade or more. Some people think as few as five but this gets to part of what is so different about them. They weren't really looking for any not in the normal cult since they flew almost entirely under the radar other than then my it slash anton long. They really have no leader pretty much. All their literature is available for free. They don't want money they don't want to meet you. They may be the most uncut like called. I've ever study so remember when we had my friend former Undercover fbi agent. Greg rogers on the show in episode one fifty four when dan talked to him about operation underground railroad and all the bullshit around human trafficking myths. We remember our secret. Asian man well in his career at the bureau. One of his beats was taken down. American neo nazis and he took down a lot of them And i asked him how he could keep doing it again. And again and they never got wise to it. He said it was because a they were fucking stupid and be. They were so preoccupied with taking power over whatever small group they were in so bitterly hateful of all the other groups and so consumed with infighting. They never thought to make a website where they could post all the pictures of the fed's that we're taking them down right right. i just. I couldn't believe they weren't comparing notes. Said they hate each other. The order the order of nine angles seems totally immune to any of that. There's no leadership to usurp. There's no money to embezzle. there's no power to be had by taking control called death. Ribs are just boring not boring. that's for sure cold. Expert steve. Hassen says the motivation behind cults is always some combination of money sex and power right but none of that really exists here it. It's really kind of a free open source radical ideology concocted by true believers and just left out on the dusky edge of society's view for anyone to find fucking hiep's according to china's own faq page on their ancient wordpress website. I i did promise a little bit of comedy her when when when one finds their literature one should do what they want with it if they want to become a member. They don't really have membership so they wanna become associated grape That's what they call them. People who are connected to them are just associates right right It's like gig satanism. But you're you're free to interpret it your own way or even start your own temple. Notice nexen on or not. It's up to you right and when you do that. There's no fees there's that you don't have to buy anything. It's very strange. So should you decide to actually live by the groups of what they call sevenfold. Who initiates you. Well you do dummy. And it's rather fucking tents one of the easiest. Initiation rituals is finding a secluded wild spot and laying there for an entire night without sleeping or even moving okay. Most people could probably do that. Another is to live into wilderness with zero contact with anyone with anyone else for six months the ritual of the. Yeah i have the rich. We've all seen the show alone. I don't think it's going to happen for most people at right. The ritual of the abyss has one living totally alone again this time in the depths of a cave for a month another. You're finding these caves i. There's they're they're they're here about Another is to walk alone over rough terrain covering three hundred miles in just fifteen days twenty miles a day. Which is that's dirty substantial for two weeks all this. Do you get your nazi merit badge. Well here's the other thing that's really fascinating about it. It's nobody checks funds. They have this dedication to this radical self honesty. And you've if you didn't if you didn't do it you know you failed and that's enough right. It's really fascinating. So this is some next level commitment and all you have to do to become a moment. This have the bad luck of turning eight and casserole country right right so it gets. It gets even more intense. Once you've passed those hermetic mind breaking tests. You're ready for what they call an insight role that means doing something so outside any experience you've ever had or joining a group never would have considered for at least six and up to eighteen months. It could be joining the police or the military traveling around the world on foot without dollar begging and stealing to do it joining isis seriously. You know normal gap here kind of things. Yeah this sounds. A lot. Like batman begins like a little bit does. It's like this evil kind of samurai coda right this. It's it's very. It's highly disciplined also not learning to make a lot of sense that they had no members that that part starting to make way more sense to me very few people can can pass these crucibles right or would want to or want to but some do so getting comfortable with violence and weapons training ceteris pretty normal neo nazi fair but specifically for the order of nine angles it serves a purpose called calling specifically calling of offers which is the german word for victims part of the rite of passage in self development for someone following the nine oneida paths is ritually ridding the species of unworthy garbage. This is literally part of their doctrine as laid out in several publications including a guide to human sacrifice calling a guide to sacrifice part to and victims a sinister expose and guidelines for testing of offers. You see these guys aren't just nihilist. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism dude. At least it's an ethos right an opt for must quote self. Select what they don't. They don't know that they're being tested. But they are being watched and when an up for is called not only. Is the species less filthy but it meant like in many cannibal cultures. The murderer inherits the life force of the victim bringing them closer to being the adila uber match. The uber rich. This is not okay. Nothing nothing that's happening is is okay. No and it doesn't get better and more than a few targeted uppers have indeed been cold meaning fucking murdered by order of nine angles. Initiates more on that tick in preparation for the segment. I read many articles than one very interesting one just on neo-fascist generally in the online journal belling cat dot com by robert evans. He as an excellent quote here that could apply to so many of the segments. We do about this stuff. I should note that one of the more frustrating elements about covering the fastest right. Is that much of what they say. Sounds ridiculous and makes them appear less than serious. This is why it is important to remember that these groups have a body count and represent a real threat. There absurdity does not negate their danger and there is some silly shit about the order of nine angles. Like the fact they can't or won't get their story straight about how they got their name or that one of their most important rituals is a board game called the game of stars. They they think of it as something like the lament cube from hellraiser like a puzzle that opens up the membrane between the causal world and the acosta world Where the dark gods live. But you laugh if you see it. Because it's exactly spock's multilevel chessboard from the old star trek series right silly but these people are deadly fucking serious bright. The goal of china is chaos. Pandemonium rape murder criminality and the total implosion of the magin nazarene order to bring about the anna fire to quote from an official oh nine. Publication to acts of assault are most commonly recommended lynching and sexual assault. Jesus they ardently encourage rape as terrorism. They are also one hundred percent pro. Violent pedophilia again as a vehicle. Not only for terror and chaos but in assertion of the superior will of nine a associate to dominate the weak and the useless god. Yeah we can the useless meaning children children. Of course they are. I mean they are weak and useless in another publication. It says children must never be cold. So they they have guys ethics. They don't know they just believe they can be raped will Week so the founder of the main us us order of nine angles. next a called. The temple of blood of his lovie is a guy. Guy named joshua caleb sutter who was a real peach in addition to fashioning himself as a hyper pro north korean propagandist among a few other daffyd he was actually contacted by north korean intelligence and they were working with him and at some point they decided his just fucked in the head tweet. The north koreans are like nope can't do business with this guy among a few other daffy things he wrote a bit of ona a nine hundred nazi fanfest called iron gates. It's horrific both in envision and grammar suffices suffice it to say it paints a sloppy but nightmarish. John mcnaughton style portrait of the future. The order of nine angles wishes to foment mass murder of the intervention and endless days of child rape and torture in service of the triumph of mediocre white men. This salacious future has become an inspiration to the violent neo. Fascist paramilitary the atom waffen division whose rallying cry is iron gates. Now right so that's the future. They want horrific of course stupid without question but it has ignited the passions of more than a few hyper-violent motherfuckers everywhere. Here in america we have a lot of violent neo nazi movements. Most like my friend. Greg said are fucking idiots. Who are more likely to blow their own brains out by mistake than they are to hurt anyone else but some are not just. Here's your some of the crimes and on long's ona. Eight nine tax inspired david david copeland to play several nail bombs around the areas in london frequented by gay and immigrant communities in nineteen ninety. Nine nailbombs killed three people and injured a hundred and forty others. The british anti fast fascist group hope not hate records at least six oneida associates being prosecuted for terrorism. Twenty twenty alone here in toronto and associate of the order quote cold to south asian men who had nothing to do with anything by stabbing them in the throats in the states. Order devotee jared. William smith and army specialist was charged with leaking classified material on high explosives and weapons of mass destruction in order to kill federal agents for quote the glory of his neck religion another. Us soldier ethan. Meltzer stationed at. Us based in italy passed on information to help oneida members and an affiliated group called the rape waffen division. Who are exactly as they sound. God to ambush and kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. Luckily the plow stopped. He's facing life in prison of his arrest. Exposed other order associates within the military including one station in kuwait and one of the national guard who intended to use his presence at the george floyd protests last summer to start a satanic racial holy war by crazy piece of luck. He was apprehended before he can start shooting. He was also a member of the Oneida affiliated rape waffen division. That i mentioned a terror group hell bent on using rape as a weapon there. Several more known cases of murder and attempt and attempted murder and terrorism connected to the order of nine angles and groups. They have major influence over like the atom waffen division national action the sonnen craig division and the nordic resistance movement now as the order is declared not only pro human sacrifice pro rape and pro sexual violence directed at children. You may have correctly surmised that when one of the oh nine a is run to ground by the authorities. They are very likely to be in possession of a lot of images of child pornography and child rape no need to dwell any further on that but it seems to be standard equipment for apprehended associates including a teenager. Who is the youngest person ever charged with terrorism in the uk. I think he was fifteen. So what of their semi leadership. Richard moult aka christos beast went underground for several years and seems to have denounced the group. He was living as a catholic. In a rural part of england. And it wasn't until he resurfaced as a fairly prominent of folk musician. His past was rediscovered by his bandmates. Who kicked him to the curb. Although having sworn off his past he seems once again to be active in the order. And what about david. Miot aka anton long very likely the actual originator of the order as i mentioned at the top. He's a fascinating figure. In addition to kicking the lid off this nightmare. He's a classical. Greek scholar has lived all over. the world. lived for a time as both a christian and buddhist monk And in the two thousands converted to islam moved to the middle east and in fluent arabic became the west most ardent spokesperson for an advocate of osama bin laden and called for total jihad against the decadent magin nazarene order of the west. He's lived a hell of life guys. I was gonna say that. Sounds like three lifetime three completely mistrial lifetimes. But he's a horrible human being but he's also incredibly fascinating He spent ten years doing this before. Renouncing islam and moving home to rural england as well where he apparently still lives and perhaps still quietly guides the order of nine angles from his keyboard. Many people think his time in islam was just another of his many insight roles infiltrate infiltrating a group in order to raise one's awareness and possibly destroyed from within. This may also have been the motivation for richard mulched renunciation of the order his conversion to catholicism and his time in the folksy but in either case these men seem to be still at large now in their later years and despite having unleashed a methodology for very disturbed disordered minds everywhere to become the worst versions of themselves. They seem unbel- unmolested by the police which is baffling to me. Well except that the what four members there are are all in the police. Now they well. That's the thing is. They think that there's different levels of association with the order. And you kind of choose and they see they have names. There's artists who can be associated with it. There's street gangs there's Individual black black magicians can have different associations with it and they are. There's a lot of worry about how infiltrated they are into the military and police forces in the united states canada germany. Least so they're the best estimates that these anti fascist groups make is. There might be two thousand of them in the world but that seems like a couple thousand too many. Yeah most definitely so. It's a really fascinating horrible. Evil truly truly evil but very fascinating group of people right and i've never heard of them. Never got all all american law enforcement has only recently become even aware of them while they stay have managed to keep themselves in the shadow so successfully and and you know what what one of the journalists i read was talking about is they. Don't you if you come across an order of nine angles member. He's not gonna tell you right. It's a secret orders rule of fight club. Not the sloppy s. Stupid skinheads right there. There are a whole different level of discipline does not proud boys so really fascinating. But how about that raged. I'll i'm gonna sleep. Great tonight fantastic. Thanks for that. And let's move on doc if well you're a little younger than me but if you're like me you know kid kid of the child of the eighties right. I grew up with. I'd grew up with the the youth pop culture. What i was allowed to see as a young mormon which wasn't a lot like the goebbert's and he sh- he man you know yeah. Gi joe but you know what was a huge. What was a huge thing in in movies and culture at the time was the corey's right You had corey haim corey feldman they. They were writer died together. Right those two little cuties and they were just the lost boys and probably other movies. Yeah i can't remember but it was all about the corey's i remember corey wasn't in the goonies sure was that was sean asks to no no. I think they're the same person. Okay all right fair enough. Four heyman shan weiss ganz edges the same person. Yeah so anyway. I don't know if did did you enjoy the corey's daniela. Well not as much as you did. But i probably i mean you know. Only one of them made it this far and we're and the truth is while one of them did die. I don't know which one of them actually made it this far. I don't know if corey feldman who who lived. I don't know if he's the one that we can say made it because he's distance. Yeah anyway look. I am going to talk about a corey To but before we get there I wanted to talk a little bit about something. I i recently watched and i think i think you guys may have watched at least some of this too I watched as much as i was able to stomach of a debate. It took place a few weeks ago on zoom and pitted friend of the show and full attorney andrew seidel against christian gas bag and kim adventure movie bad guy. Tom trento closing statement which was beautiful extraordinary job with that. Yeah throughout the whole thing. Andrew was clear and incisive and fair in his treatment of the subject where trento unfortunately league couldn't even see or hear andrew And instead was having a totally different debate with the ender shaped straw man that he had set up next to his webcam which is that he completely ignored the reality of the person. He was debating and just plowed forward with a plan. He had crafted ahead of time. That plan had nothing to do with the extendable topic of the debate nor did he address or even acknowledge anything that the good mr seidel had said after a while the whole thing descended into chaos with trento trying desperately to trap andrew with multiple choice questions that didn't include the correct answers and throwing tantrums when he wouldn't just choose one of the options and shut up. Well how is it going to win a debate right. Exactly i wouldn't bother watching the whole thing If i were any of you though as uncle mark says andrews opening and closing speeches both knock it out of the park. So he's so he's so brilliant and and decent. Yeah and and easy on the eyes to a handsome music if you like those clean cut types. The reason i bring this up is because it is the latest for me in a very long line of moments where a believer has decided that the atheist that they've constructed in their mind is obviously far more honest and real than anything an actual atheist might say so they just ignore the real people that are right in front of them and valiantly goes to battle against the straw man army of their imaginations. They applaud each other as they bravely. Scare as bravely sleighs scarecrow after scarecrow never bothering themselves with the distant sounds of real honest arguments. Meanwhile we nonbelievers sit on our park benches watching the whole live action role play as they stabbed their dull prop swords into dummies with our name scrawled on them and then they go off to regale their churches with the noble story of their righteous victory over the savage heathens. It's a tales oldest time. And today i'm gonna prove that. I'm going to talk about an og straw man that goes back more than two thousand years. But only if you actually believe what. Mormons believe otherwise it goes back two hundred years. Because that's why. And joseph smith fabricated a pretend ancient record of jews in the americas for today's lesson. We're going to talk about one of the great characters in the book of mormon not that there's much competition corridor so core hor comes to us and leaves us in a single chapter of the book of alma for anyone stupid enough to have attempted to have read the book of mormon all the way through. You know that alma which is book. Nine of fifteen is the one where you finally lose the will to live completely Coming in at sixty three chapters. It's almost twice as long as any of the other books are boy. Horror comes in Joins the party in chapter thirty. So it's it's a brutal brutal book log i. I often encouraged our listeners. To like go ahead and go to the source material and learn stuff for yourself. Obviously but like. Don't don't read this book. not this book. yeah believe me. read this book. We're we're doing it so you don't have exactly so chapter thirty starts. In the land of zahra hemlock which was one of our favorite ones with the neophytes who are gods good white and delight some little boys and girls burying their dead after a huge with the layman knights who are gods dark skinned baddies. The surviving laminates are kicked out. The fights have some of their have some days of fasting and morning in prayer and then since they got rid of all the dark people quote there began to be continual peace throughout the land. God not racist at all. No no shut up Literally everybody was good and kept all the commandments. and shit. it's it's it's weird. That cliven bundy loves this book. Isn't it. I just had that right. Yeah strange will. And it's such a trope in throughout the book of mormon Especially in the book of alma bit but throughout that entire populations just all act as one character. You know individual no individuality or there's no fax percent. yeah there's no factions. There's no nuance opinion. Yeah the richest people were evil. The people were evil. The people are righteous fucking well and that's exactly it. This is a classic joseph smith. Move here you fix all of the problems literally make everything perfect for years then realize that you have that you have to have conflict to have a story and little they turn their hearts away from god again again right which does make me wonder how many angry frustrated grumbles martin harris heard from behind the curtain as joseph was dictating. I i imagine it to be something like this. Joseph says does the people did have no disturbance in all the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of knee fi and it came to pass in the commencement of the seventeenth. Year of the reign of the judges. There was continual piece. So it's amazing. It's amazing how long you can. You can stretch out. Nothing happened right. Exactly or martin harris is probably like hey joseph is going to pick up anytime soon right. Oh yeah yeah sure. sure sure. Let's take lunch and then we'll come back and Pick it up so anyway when they did get back from lunch. Joseph introduces the story of cora. Hor and it's a hell of an introduction comes out swinging at this guy quote. There came a man into the land of zahra hamila and he was anti christ for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets concerning the coming of christ boom. That's what passes for character building this. Yep he's new in down and he's anti christ that says bad guy yeah exactly and he literally might be one of the most nuanced characters in the book of mormon. It's to that in that moment. That joseph smith didn't invent a pre pre columbian railroad for him to tie a woman to one hundred percent. Yes exactly now. He's not the anti christ mind you. he's just anti christ. Yeah later he is. He's handed la- leader. He's an anti christ. So lots of ways to use that phrase. I guess anyway. The point is that we're supposed to hate him and that's all we know about him for a minute. Then the ebook answers the question. We're all asking which is if he's preaching against the prophecies. Why isn't he getting his ass kicked. Well now. now we get to several versus. About the hemlock criminal justice system it turns out that in ancient mesoamerica you were legally allowed to believe or not believe. Isn't that nice. And there are several versus justifying this position. Because old joseph was clearly deeply ambivalent about whether heathens should be allowed to speak or not right but the knee of hemlock landed on yes you can be a disgusting evil satan worshipping shit bag atheist if you want to perv and the good book gives a series of reasons why god wants it that way. God wants an open society where people are free to believe what they want and they have the legal right to talk about their beliefs freely. Put a pin in that anyway. Seven versus later. We're back to this anti christ. Which in this book is hyphenated with. Both words capitalized. By the way he finally gets a name the name corridor and even though we just had an entire opening arguments episode about alternative religious views in fight law. It is once again emphasized that he's legally allowed to do this. No matter how mad that makes you anyway. Core is preaching. There will be no christ remember. This takes place before. Jesus this is like bbc. Seventy five or something like that. So there's still waiting for this messiah and that there's no god and that there's no evidence that the prophecies are true. He says quote. Oh ye that are bound down under a foolish and vain. Hope whitey. yoke yourselves with such foolish things. Why do you look for christ for. No man can know anything which is to come. Behold these things which ye call prophecies which you say are handed down by holy prophets behold. They are foolish. Traditions of your father's so i like this guy feels pretty right. I'm with you great. And here's what's interesting about this chapter. Joseph smith like all the screenwriters of all of the best godawful movie episodes has to thread a needle here if you want the character to be at all believable which you know. It's a book of mormon. Why start now but whatever he has to try to make him make some sense but it can't make too much sense or you know readers might realize that he's actually you know the one who's right. So joseph smith throws in classic the classic the a straw man which is people who leave the church. Just want to sin now. This one's ubiquitous in the modern era. If you google why do people come become atheists or why do people leave the church and you find a christian websites answer. I guarantee you somewhere on that page. You'll find this. They just want us in. yeah now. Nobody that i've ever met or even heard of became an atheist because they wanted to sit no way and religious people have no problem sending they do it all the time to church on sunday. It's not fucking biggie. Right considering a source of this material reading right now exactly yeah totally. Now i will say this. There are some folks who eventually noticed that. God's rules about sex were stupid and that led them to realize that god might not be real and then they went on to have a delightful and less fettered sex life. But that's not leaving because you want to sin that's leaving because you realize that you were lied to and then sending well. Inside the central contradiction. There is that if i'm not into religion those religious religiously mandated since or not since right. It's just having a drink or get though. They often though they they will often say. I've heard many a believer. Say well you still believe you just want to send so you pretend like you don't believe also put a pin in that anyway. Oh quarterhorse horse said quote. There could be no atonement made for the sins of men but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature. I guess meeting were all just animals. Therefore every man prospered according to his genius and and that every man conquered according to his strength and whatsoever. A man did was no crime right. Yeah what atheists believe is that you can do whatever you want. And since there's no god to tell you what's right or wrong there's no such thing as crime and everything is god. Damn free parole. Yeah yup that's added wildlife entirely. It's what we're all about. It's why they're the prisons are packed with atheists positively overflowing Now regardless of that stupidity apparently a guy talking mostly reasonably about the logical problems of magic. Daddy's in the sky and wizards predicting the future was a welcome diversion in perfect step. Fortunes are a hamlet and a bunch of people started listening and liking what they were hearing and women and men immediately turned to quote committing horde. Them that's what worry orden's yeah exactly. Ooh his own. He should get a t shirt. Well that's his podcast. Exactly yeah any who core a horror did didn't stay in zor He took a show on the road. You went to the land of jerry sean. To preach to the people of ammon who used to be lamen nights They're the evil dark skinned ones remember. But here's a twist. These guys were more wise than the knee fights. It literally says that and they immediately bound core whore and dragged him in front of ammon who was the high priest who him to be quote carried out of the land. Didn't we spend an oddly. Long amount of time talking about how it was good and god or deigned. The people be free to preach whatever they want. Shut up is it really. It's a different time now idiot. Exactly literally. I guess i just love the place where they are. More wise is the place where they're going against. God's idea of how the law is supposed to go but anyway the idea that martin harris was probably from behind the curtain going. Hey you know you wrote that stuff about really no freedom of speech. Does she want to set up a theocracy. Shit it's literally this. This chapter goes back and forth on that issue a dozen times. It's it's your head starts to spin anyway. Then cora hor tried his shtick in the land of gideon and they bound him and took him to the high priest and the chief judge of the land named good dona. Now i'm i'm not. I'm going to read a pretty big section of this because it's the first time we actually hear what cohorts says and well. It's pretty fucking compelling so this is him talking to godot the high-priced you say this people is a free people. Behold i say they are in bondage. You say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold i say you don't know that they are true you say that these people This is a guilty and fallen people because of the transgression of apparent hold. I say that a child is not guilty because of his parents and he also say that christ show come but behold i say he do not know the that you didn't do not know that there she'll be a christ and you also say that he shall be slain for the sins of the world. And thus you lead the people you lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers and according to your own desires and you keep them down even as they were in bondage that they might glut. Oh the might glut yourselves. With the labors of their hands and they durst not look look up with boldness and they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges. They not make use of that which is their own less they should be less should offend their priests who do yoke them according to their desires and have brought them to believe by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their and their visions and their pretend mysteries that they should if they did not do according to their words of offend some unknown being who they say is god a being who has never. Who's who is who never has been seen or known who never was nor ever will be to me. That is a pretty shocking slam. Dunk corey i wanna come on the show. Yeah excellent work. Yeah reading from an outsider's perspective. That is some hard hitting skepticism. Yeah anyway very reasonable totally reasonable. Yeah anyway the high priest did what all believers do. When they hear a skeptic challenge their beliefs he told horror that his heart was hard and shipped back to our hemlock. Because that's good writing. Why did we leave anyway. Where if we're just going back to stand before the big boss alma skunk done done now almaz guy who's going to set things right. He's the great wise high priest who has the apologetic to put cohort hitchens in his place. First he tackles the claim that the priests make money off the labor of the people and for this. He uses the classic apologetic do not. He literally takes several paragraphs to say. I make my own money so shut up. Then they say they get to the real stuff all my ass core if he believes in god and in christ core horse says a new. Hasn't he clear although rates. Yeah exactly almost says almost starts to do the classic logical fallacy and says what evidence have you that there is no god or that christ cometh not i say unto you that you have none save it is your word only thereby demonstrating that not only does he not understand who has the burden of proof but that he doesn't recognize that his own arguments can be turned back to him because guess who's word only is also the only evidence for the other side. Then he makes his big proof that god does indeed exist things. You know all the things that's literally as argument. He's shocked the coral can't see it. Frankly yeah so does the final gambit he asks for evidence that god is real. Show me a sign. He says i'll believe now in real life that is a one hundred percent reasonable thing to ask but almaz like but the things look at all the things that's your goddamn sign so core just refuses to acknowledge the things and and says that's not a very good argument. He's such a stubborn. It's acquaintances five ways. Right right a look. There's a world someone made the stars move. Someone makes it's like okay. That's pretty deep. Just the same argument over and over again. Obviously yeah where did it alone from. Yeah so this is the point in the story where it takes a tarantino pivot where we take one moment in this godforsaken book that feels slightly realistic and we plunge into adolescent doofus style. Magic reality revenge stupidity alma. Says you wanna sign. I'll show you assign since you won't shut up and stop ruining god for everybody. God will shut you up. And with that corps is struck dumb permanently and with that corridor like a good and consistent skeptic that he has always been admits in writing that he was wrong and that god must exist. because he can't speak anymore do you think he was carrying his own. Gold-plate jot that down on or do they provide you with one in the courts. What's really funny. And i didn't write this. But what's really funny. Is that when they ask him believing in god now somebody writes it to him as though so such a dumb as just ask him. It's far anyway anyway. yes there's another popular believers straw man right there because about how he always they throw the throw the in this a straw man about how he always secretly believed deep down and that satan tricked him by coming to him like an angel to tell him that there was no god because as we all know god right. Yeah non-belief so often starts with an angelic visitation skepticism. A supernatural right here. Exactly but honestly really. Who's the bad guy here. Cora horror has conflicting beliefs based on lack of evidence and once he gets good evidence even though it fucks him up for life he acknowledges it but that's not the takeaway that we're supposed to get no cora. Hor is pronounced wicked and ends up going door to door begging for food because apparently mute people can't work and everyone who has believed him reverts back to being a good little good little church mouse and eventually core horror was viciously trampled to death. Oh my god and lest you think that i'm skewing. How the book presents this fate you with the actual final verse of the chapter which has a rare moral of the story style ending and thus we see the end of him who perverted the ways of the lord thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day but deaths speedily drag them down to hell and the name of jesus christ amen. Yeah so he's he should stand as a shining example of the power of the gospel right and he should be like what you know. That's what they were teaching missionaries and the mtc is cory horwitz convinced. It took striking mute and then there were some scribblings in the courtroom yada yada but but the hardest of hearts can be changed and and according to their own belief system. Harp became a good guy. The am i wrong. Yeah oh yeah. But i think the takeaway from this story at least from their perspective is don't ask questions yeah right. It's meant to chill to put a chill into the spine of anyone who would dare ask for a sign or ask for evidence or ask for any kind of reality based reason to believe this. Well i don't know dan if you're gonna if you're gonna go go here but i do know a lot of people who had a faith crisis because of the story. Oh really in the same way that. I know of some people who had faith crises because of the story of jesus in the fig tree because if says in that story it wasn't fixed season just went up to the victory didn't have figs so fucked up. Yeah yeah in. This story like corridor is making valid points. He has questions you wants to know and god strikes him dumb right and he says i believe and it ends up being a poor beggar and and getting trampled today. Yeah what's the what's the point of changing your mind. You know like what value is there. Yeah and if you read the story and you're like okay. Here's the problem. I'm having the lesson of the story is not supposed to ask questions. But the story has caused me to have questions fucking. We're supposed to do with that. Yeah it's a mess it's a it's a fun little thing and again. Every time we do a story in the book of mormon. It's just a lesson in why we don't why we edit why we don't claim that our book was directly translating from another book that's directly from god and the and thus make it so that we can't actually like you know edit the other stuck with this garbage mess a story forever it's an albatross around their necks but there you go there you go The third corey. Yep go get out there and have a have a corey horror of time and let's move on. Hey uncle mark yes sir. I know that you you recently crossed a border that is that is somewhat impenetrable right now. Because you know we're still in the middle of a pandemic. I managed to slide through into a closed country. The largest undefended border in the world. Which is quite something. You just got a loop up a lot got you gotta make a run for it anyway. The one of the things that you did before you went there was to get yourself A shot in the arm. I sure did. And i'm glad i did. Yeah and i've got my appointment. I finally got an appointment. Because i finally utah in utah. I'm in an age group. That's going to get them. So i in a in a week and a half. I'm going to be getting my first. Shot they the oh. That's good so they finally lowered it to uncles exactly. It's now well yeah exactly like mark old people style but like you know as young spry uncles can get them to now here teenagers. Well that's right but the question is do i really want it. I think there's a lot to unpack their no it just venting. This disease is not a good idea for some reason. I'm not sure why. But i'm pretty sure that uncle doug you can tell me. Well i'm gonna do my best to convince you otherwise okay Yeah like uncle. Dan just referenced uncle mark and i have both been vaccinated. I'm so happy to hear about that down. He didn't know that that you're getting your vaccine in a in short order. Yeah that's great news and once the government has managed to get all podcasters vaccinated. They can move onto doctors nurses teachers and the general public so essential workers. That's right right so hopefully many of you out there have either received your first vaccination or getting close to being able to something tells me joe rogan's not going to be getting one but that's a subject for another needle would break trying to penetrate is fuck and skin. It's crazy that it's basically been one year since this all started depending on obviously where you are and so it's it's hard not to take stock of what we've all been through in these last twelve interminable months but as the experts keep telling us we are not through this yet and whether we actually get out of this depends on the vast majority of doing the right things. We still need to wash our hands. Practice proper social distancing stay away from parties sporting events and concerts wear masks diligently and get the fucking vaccine as soon as we all can. There is still a real possibility that this virus could mutate into something that makes all the sacrifice effort for nothing so the subject of my segments could not be more timely today. I wanna talk about anti vaccine and the anti vaccine movement like on this show. We've talked about every form and fashion of out. There of wu there. An anti vaccine is definitely a woo. But most moves are basically harmless. If you wanna get your palm read go for it. If you don't want to leave the house until you've read your daily horoscope cares if you want to try and communicate with your dead relatives via a ouija board. I light the candles for you if you want to stick ajay up your recently steamed gene. Cram the fucker up there. Just don't do it during allergy season. Jade is hypoallergenic. Of course these was. These lose can be harmful if say by following some fortune cookie prediction. You make bad decisions. And there are wounds that are that are inherently harmful like trepidation or reputation trepidation grimace conjuring. Being being reluctant is not a woo. Yeah but there is only one wou that is on the world health organization's top ten list of global health threats. And that's antitax or as they put it vaccine hesitancy want to know what else is on that list. Well covid nineteen obviously poor third world third world health. Care you bulla. Dang gay fever. Hiv and climate change. That's right guy fieri. You're that's right. The world health organization sees anti vacs as dangerous as aids and climate change. Jesus there is no real way to know how many people die every year due to anti vaccine damage it causes but the. Who believes that. At least one point five million people a year could be saved if vaccine distribution was marginally improved and one of the biggest impediments to that. Marginal improvement is the anti vaccine movement. So yeah i see you know the the numbers get big real fast As we'll discuss the anti vaccine movement could actually derail our defeat. Derail our efforts to defeat cove in nineteen plunging. His back into the pit where we we were all a year ago and killing millions more people unlike the viruses of the body this movement seeks to protect anti vaccine viruses of the mind and as such might be one of the deadliest viruses in history underlying all of this is the fact that anti vaccine stupid belligerent anti-science often racist and easily disapproval. Not only that. But it's also inconsistently applied illogical to its core and poorly thought out if any of its adherents think about it all. Oh they think they think hard they have developed many many vo ciprusov ways of defending their positions. So well if you say so. But we're not saying good or smartwatch. Just many many ways. Let's agree on loud. Okay unlike other words this one has to be confronted and defeated or were doomed. I would never tell you to slap the tarot cards out of the hands of the yoga instructor. You're trying to have sex with but if you know any anti vaccine you should really talk to them and try and change their mind. If this virus of the mind is not confronted and treated it could kill us all. So let's dig in shall we As early as the tenth century in china someone noticed that those who had previously had a mild case of a deadly disease where less susceptible to that disease later this led to a practice called variation wherein poss- or scabs from an infected person are blown up the nasal passages rubbed on scratches on the skin of an uninfected individual. I know this just sexy as it said. I know this sounds disgusting but honestly it was probably the least disgusting thing to have happened to you. On any given day in the tenth century why this practice worked in would would would remain a mystery for centuries but by the sixteenth and seventeenth century. It was in fairly wide use in china india and turkey before making its way to england in the eighteenth century. Now here's the thing. Eighteenth century england was certainly somewhat enlightened Certainly somewhat enlightened place for the world back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't still barbaric. Yeah so some of the first True scientific experiments of vaccines were carried out on children prisoners and slaves. None of who are you going to do it. On good like grown up white people essentially aldrin. This would pretty disposable. Then the children's a bad show for kids man doubt this would unfortunately be a part of the development and experimentation to vaccines for well over one hundred years as we'll see these evil practices would become a bit a small bit of the fodder that would become the anti vaccine movement But before we get to that let's talk about. How what what a game. Changing development vaccine science was for the human race prior to their development. When a disease crossover from some animal to humanity. All we can really do is just wait for it to run. Its course outbreaks of cholera influenza. And of course ends long. That's known as the trump plan. That's exactly right exactly so yeah. Outbreaks of cholera influenza and of course bubonic plague would kill millions of people per outbreak. The version of the botanic plague known as the black death killed between seventy five and two hundred million people between thirteen forty-six and thirteen fifty three. Jeez yeah bad guys. They were just week from. Hiv aids is still a global pandemic has killed more than thirty six million people. Since nineteen eighty-one of course there is not a vaccine yet for this disease but the therapeutics are incredible. If expensive and hiv aids is very preventable. The reasons that it has and continues to spread basically racism and religious are very much a part of the anti vaccine movement as we'll discuss but yeah i mean that you know. We were all alive during the aids crisis in the eighties. Although you know pretty young and pretty dumb but that was a terribly preventable disease. That was treated as a gay disease. A black disease on african disease and was able to spread. So that's good stuff and and and when people died of it it was horrid. It was absolutely horrible. Fact that these therapeutics are now exist when and guys that caught it in the original wave are dying of old age is incredible. It's incredible bears mentioning. We'll get back to this. That's not happening everywhere that aids problem but of course it's right exactly so in the eighteen eighties. Louis pasteur brought. What was a pretty chaotic and unorganized field of science into the modern age when he developed microbial fermentation and pasteurization. Since then we have developed vaccines for pure peer parl. Fever rabies anthrax cholera polio measles. Tetanus smallpox chickenpox influenza. hpv. Hepatitis lime disease. Rubella whooping cough wrote rotavirus mumps diptheria dang game malaria tuberculosis among others so It's you know it's been a game changing development for the human species. This of course brings us to today and the emergence of covid nineteen as we have all become acutely aware. This disease is incredibly contagious. Having spread from wuhan china to every corner of the globe in a matter of months as of the time of this record covid nineteen has killed two point six nine million people worldwide with the us accounting for five hundred thirty nine thousand of those deaths. So where number. One and because of the incumbent national governments the selfishness of far too many and the vast amounts of disinformation ready in the psychological bloodstream. From the anti vaccine movement this disease was poised to simply just wash around the globe over and over until mcnew and more resistant and more deadly strains evolved and let's not be too optimistic. This could still happen. We are in desperate. Yeah yeah we're we're in a desperate foot race against these variants as we speak the only way we can beat this virus back and stop the carnage let alone get back to some sort of normalcy is for enough of us in our fellow humans all over the world not just in our own countries to get the vaccines that are now available to reach her immunity. Now we've all heard that term. It is of course the critical mass of humans that have to have immunity such that the the the disease cannot spread with impunity. Excuse me the former president called it herd mentality suggests wrong in the most apt freudian slip in history once herd immunity is reached. The reproduction number reaches zero. This is called are not right or rs. Zero right now covid. Nineteen is between our two and our three meaning that each person who gets it can infect two to three other people in order to return immunity or not with covid nineteen fifty and sixty seven percent of the population needs the vaccine in america. This means one hundred and sixty four million two hundred twenty four million people need to be vaccinated but but more would be better always better. This is the baseline just to stop the the you know the the spread on but remember this is a global pandemic and the longer this disease persists anywhere. The higher the chance of chances that dangerous variants can evolve. Defeat the vaccines so to win this fifty to sixty seven percent of the populations of england china iraq togo and benin needs to be vaccinated worldwide. That is three point. Eight to five point. One billion people need to get vaccinated and fast as of now. Seventy seven or so million americans have received at least their first dose of the vaccine which is a good start but globally only four hundred ten million people have been vaccinated so far. That's bad that's only eight to eleven percent of where we need to be We are not through this yet and there is no time to spare and there is certainly not time for the disinformation campaign by the anti vaccine movement and its erstwhile allies The mere fact that we have these vaccines at all is truly incredible. And i've heard you know including us have referred to it is miraculously because that word by its very definition is meant to apply to events that defy explanation or explanation explanation or expectations. But this was not a miracle this was the achievement of scientists and the body of work. They have all contributed to. So let's talk about these vaccines for a second because it will. It will inform where we end up while the covid nineteen virus was new to humanity hence the term novel there was a robust body of knowledge of corona viruses out there due to the previous corona vices. Like sars and mers right. This data was shared globally in an open source initiative. Call g sad or id which shares genomic data on influenza viruses with anybody that wants it because of that body of knowledge we were not starting out from zero but even still Not only had to take years to develop vaccines in the past. There was not any vaccine in existence for any kind of corona virus so the challenge was extreme as the pandemic enveloped the globe in there in early. Two thousand twenty scientists were able to isolate covid. Nineteen genetic sequence on january eleventh twenty twenty which in itself is incredible next. there was. Yeah that's really quick. Super super quick next. There was an unprecedented collaborative Undertaken by national governments drug companies and research universities to find a vaccine. The main vehicles for this effort were the. Who an initiative by the g. twenty called access to covid nineteen tools. Accelerator so these are the two main bodies that kind of tried to coordinate all this research. I think you mean president. Trump's warp speed initiative. Well i'll i'll get to that for so k. and yes that's the w. h. o. That said donald trump pulled us from in may of twenty twenty because he needed to blame someone for his failures and this is true because they refuse to call it. The china virus which is something that would have no evil consequences at all right. Yeah that hasn't turned into anything even shittier nope no. It's been great so ankle. Dan mentioned warp speed in. May trump announced operation warp speed which was an effort to fast track. Funding clinical trials approval and distribution of potential vaccines. It was named operation warp speed because donald trump is a child. Yeah but the the the thing is also you think he ever watched star trek like he. The i'm guessing that was a that was a jared kushner name or don jr. something yeah i know like he doesn't seem to watch something like that in glean anything from it. He's just too fucking self is was the fact that it wasn't operation. Trump speed is pretty surprising. So the thing is it's not a bad idea to do this. But trump ran it early like he's run everything else in his life Into the ground basically. So although moderna moderna and johnson and johnson did take funding from warp speed to develop vaccines pfizer did not not wanting to infect pun intended their research with the trump administration's incompetence as for the distribution phase of warp speed. Trump did basically nothing right. God only knows how this would append out. Had he won the election point of order. He didn't do nothing. he took full credit for. That's exactly right it's true that's not nothing. That's what's so funny. Not only you know. He's claiming credit to this day for the vaccines. I think should give him some. You know some credit and respect because we all remember how much credit and respect trump gave the previous administration for the economy right exactly so trump is claiming credit for this to this day which sets up one of the many contradictions in the story. The foot soldiers in trump's army are by and large q. on believing anti vaccine and here we have trump winking at them while demanding credit for the vaccines yeah and very typically encouraging people to get vaccinated but keeping his own vaccination secret. This will not. It's but but you we know that the cue brain is incredibly incoherency is it's not a problem truly and i'm i remain convinced that trump didn't show a picture of getting the vaccine because he didn't want to see him in short sleeved shirt with his shirt pulled up. I believe right well. None of us wanted to see. That's i think him for it. That's fair so with all that context. Let's get to the anti vaccine. Since the first vaccinations there have been anti vaccine. There's there were those who objected to having scabs blown up their nostrils because it was gross and it was weird and no one understood why it worked or in many cases because religious leaders railed against these religious arguments ran the gamut from scientists devil worship to viruses were created by god to punish the wicked and any attempt to stop them was fighting against the will of god all right. It's it's the same reason that when ben franklin put a lightning rod on wherever it was town hall and philadelphia or whatever and all the churches inveighed against as as yup subverting god's will and then two years later they all had lightning round exactly. Yeah so in the nineteenth century there were anti vaccination leagues that sprung up in the us and the uk that slowed down the vaccination campaigns against smallpox and led to untold numbers of unnecessary deaths. Similar leagues appeared. All around the world. is that campaign continued. Most of these leagues focused on. What would become the main fear of all anti vaccine harm to children. Most current anti vaccine fall into two buckets with one being far larger and more nefarious than the other. The biggest grin. We just keep them in the bucket. Really we could seal it then. That would be great. the biggest group or those. That believe they are. There is some conspiracy or several conspiracies behind vaccines. And we'll get to that he's ranged from the profit motive of the pharmaceutical and medical industry all the way to alien experimentation of course whatever their particular belief is it's based on a belief in dark forces with no regard regard for public health. The second much smaller bucket are those that simply. Don't care enough to get vaccinated. They're part of the problem. So don't feel any need to be part of the solution so while the latter is certainly a cause for concern. It's the former group that is a global crisis and there are different kinds of anti vaccine. There's some who to completely deny an issue any kind of accent. There are some that want to spread out. Vaccinations over time. Only get this one or that one so the kind of run the gamut but they pretty much all believe the same things. they're all looking at the same materials and so we're going to keep them in a single group for the purpose of this discussion. Because whatever you're doing if you're slowing down vaccines or you're not getting him. You're the effect is the same right. Modern yeah the modern iteration of this insanity has its roots in the campaign to vaccinate against it. Fury tetanus pertussis hope. I said that right process. I think in the nineteen seventies conflicting and spurious reports appeared in the uk press that there was significant neurological after effects from this vaccine in children. Not true but in the history of followed a film called vaccination roulette and a book called a shot in the dark hit the market. These two works described. Dark conspiracies joins stuck what this was in the nineteen seventies late nineteen seventies early august. Okay this you know what we call the anti vaccine movement isn't that old you know and i thought actually well it didn't get get it's real. We'll get to early where it kinda got so it's injection so to speak right But the so both these films were films. Booker complete hui. But they're still around today. There's still in circulation then came the inciting incident of the modern anti vaccine movement in nineteen ninety eight a british physician named andrew wakefield released a paper in the lancet called iliad lymphoid najah hyperplasia nonspecific colitis and pervasive developmental disorder. In children. try saying that three times or just once The paper claimed a link between vaccinations for measles. Mumps rubella and autism in children right given the wakefield was a doctor at the time. He's not anymore right and the paper sounded scientific. It caused a major stir one that we are still feeling today. I don't want to spend too much time on wakefield because he is truly one of the world's greatest monsters and quite literally may have as much blood on his hands. As any of history's greatest villains. Yeah he's essentially a baby murderer. Yeah yeah Except to say that it turns out that he was paid by various organizations to produce the paper and the paper itself was so completely spurious. That lancet retracted wakefield with stripped of his medical license. That hasn't stopped him though he was behind. The you know quote unquote documentary faxed. That came out in the in the two thousands with the tagline. The movie they don't want you to see gotta love that. That's a that all conspiracy theories that's catnap right exactly and it's basically the citizen kane of the anti vaccine movement. Glenn watch the trailer for this monster. Snipe nightmare if you're up to it. And if you're not filled with boiling hate for wakefield. I don't wanna know you. It's necessary it's manipulative. It's grotesque it's shocking. The godawful movies guys did it right. Yeah i think they pound a nail. It's horrible and not for nothing but because you know autism is tragic and it's very difficult for families of autistic people to you know to raise autistic children and And again i'm. I'm not trying to shame her or anyone out. There is offended by. I don't mean that. By any stretch. I i would i would. I would ask to modify tragic. I think it's just simply a a different way of being that yes can be more challenging. Yeah of course and but to try and manipulate people with autistic children autistic family members and use that video to manipulate others. I think his tragic up and completely missing from the conversation is the fact that autism is way better than most of the diseases. Which vaccines present promote google fucking picture of smallpox. So in the in the research or polio polio. And the research for this. I saw a lot of. What's so fucked up. Is i saw a lot of photos about this stuff. From recent like not pictures of people with smallpox in eighteen ninety smallpox is as it recurred it. The smallpox hasn't but polio has had some outbreaks and stuff like that. Because of this fucking shit so the sequel to this piece of shit vacs movie faxed to the people's truth. Electric google was released in november of two thousand nineteen mere months before the covid pandemic and. I don't want to wish ill on people. So i'm gonna stop talking about wakefield right now But this this fear that these vaccines caused autism was based on the fact Pounded in these documentaries that these vaccines contain traced can contained trace amounts of mercury in the form of a chemical called mirasol which contains forty nine percent methylmercury ever so little mirasol was used in these vaccines that it came nowhere near a dose that could potentially cause harm and in fact in two thousand three danish researchers conducted a study involving thousands of children who who received vaccines containing and thousands who receive vaccines that contain none and they found that the instances of autism was exactly the same in both groups. This these vaccines the mirasol. A methylmercury are not causing autism but the mirasol has been removed from almost every major vaccine simply due to the public perception. Yeah so The unfortunate truth though is this fear vaccines and medical science. Being less than forthright and ethical is not entirely without cause. I mentioned earlier. That the first vaccination experiments were carried out on slaves children and prisoners. Not good then. I don't want slaves and prisoners to get it but i'm just wondering why the children are thrown in there. I think it is i think. No i think it's because a lot of these diseases struck children's childhood okay. So they're they're like oh we'll just use children to experiment with ren of course there were. There were the tuskegee. Experiments carried out by the public. Health service tuskegee university. And the cdc in which african american men were told. They were being given free healthcare to treat their syphilis when in reality they were not and for forty years. They were observed to see what long term syphilis would do to the human body. Yeah this led to the painful and miserable death of one hundred twenty eight of the men. It is one of the darkest chapters in american medical history and has been a consistent reason for mistrust of the us government particularly by african americans. Ever since for good reason yeah there are. There are some people that are that. I think are justified in their hesitancy. Yep but it's not fucking jenny mccarthy and you know her fucking social set of white upper class liberals in hollywood bowl right. Yeah and we'll definitely we'll we'll dig into that and hate on some people here in a minute But the tuskegee experiments diddley disa- major reforms in the us health industry that remain today including the creation of the office for human research protections within the health and human health and human services administration so these exist specifically to prevent anything like that from ever happening again. The body of law that exists because of to gigi is significant but if your natural inclination is to mistrust the government will the tuskegee experiment. Certainly don't help yeah Another tenant of the anti vaccine movement is something called vaccine overload. This is not a medical term by the way but essentially means that too much vaccine or vaccines administered in two rapid a succession will weaken the immune system and lead to adverse affects again. This is hogwash. Not only have so. This is a really interesting fact. Not only a vaccine become so efficacious over the last several decades such that the immune immunological components in the fourteen. Vaccines administered to children. Today is less than ten percent of what it was in the seven. Vaccines administered in nineteen eighty hour. Yeah it's the vaccine. Science has has come a long way and not for nothing but many vaccines must be administered on a specific timeline. In order to work yet right yeah vaccine overload. Unfortunately it's still a common try amongst Anti vaxxers ironically the success of many vaccines one of the main driving forces behind behind the anti vaccine trump actually brought that up at one of the debates for he was president. Yeah it just saying well. Why don't we just space it out more exactly. Yep so the success of many vaccines ironically working against them. You know quote. Nobody has measles or polio anymore. So why do they keep injecting us with. It is like a common trope of anti vaccine so while the answer to this seems so obvious as to be mind-blowing it's very common Because of this. Ironically antibac- sentiment has caused outbreaks of cholera whooping cough measles mumps into brick yellow says in the united states in the last several years I'm all of which were basically eliminated up exactly. I mentioned before that there is inherent racism to anti vaccine movement because there is the firstly the anti vaccine movement is heavily involved in all things conspiratorial including and on which are inherently racist. Nobody wants to be called a racist especially racist. Most anti actors don't even wanna called bat preferring the moniker vaccine risk aware and you know anti vaccine is by no means only a white phenomenon however the communities often hit first and hit hardest by disease outbreaks or black and brown communities one of the best ways to combat and curb the spread of of viral diseases is to get them where they start which is oftentimes poorer countries so back in two thousand fourteen. We went to west african. We the us went to west africa to help prevent the spread of a bola and successfully managed to keep this terrible disease from spreading out of control. Guess what anti vaccine are often against funding for efforts in these poor often black and brown countries. We're seeing this in real time now with covid. Nineteen the reasons that black and brown communities are medically disadvantaged are many and systemic but they are undeniable. Yeah so i'm sorry. If you're unsubstantiated ridiculous and easily just provable. Beliefs lead to bad outcomes in primarily black and brown communities. I don't know what else to that racist. Anti vaccine just stinks of white privilege front. Yes it does for sure yet it unfortunately. This movement has garnered some famous kind of and powerful adherents for minor. Celebrities like jessica biel jim carey jenny. Mccarthy leashes still re silverstone gentleman juliette lewis. Charlie sheen rob Danny masterson selma blair and to a certain extent bill. Maher up to god. help me robert deniro. I know that. Oh that one hurts. Yeah yeah really why. Well i mean. I guess i still want my money back for bad grandpa but expect good actor but i never thought of is an idiot. Yeah exactly yeah well and then not to mention like you said. Uncle mark the forty fifth president of the united states donald j trump among many tweets and outbursts on the subject. He tweeted in two thousand fourteen quote healthy young child goes to doctor gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines doesn't feel good and changes autism. Many such doesn't feel good and changes was. It was a good tweet though. We gotta give him credit for that. That's a solid there. So yeah the man. In charge of project warp speed the government initiative to generate and distribute a vaccine from may of twenty twenty two january of two thousand twenty. One was an anti vaccine and then of course the overwhelming scientific consensus is that vaccines are widely safe in effect ineffective. There aren't many things that have such a consensus if four out of five. Dentists recommend a toothbrush. You're going to go buy it yet. That's nothing compared to the consensus on vaccines right and not for nothing. We've harped on this before. The scientific method that led to vaccines is the same method. That has led to air travel smartphones. Gps viagra the germ theory of disease. Chris larynx jar jar. Binks electricity the internet and grimace conjuring. You don't get to pick and choose here you believe in reputable science or you don't and if you don't that's fine but pleased to be handing your car keys and laptop. You can be skeptical about it but once the once you examine the evidence right. There's nothing to support the anti vaccine position exactly well except that they've got their own evidence and a they've got a whole cadre of their own doctors and their own scientists to save the opposite things and go ahead go ahead. I was going to say and you're going to mention this but the catholic church of course just came out and said cat. Catholic shouldn't get the johnson and johnson vaccine because fetal tissue was part of the research. I didn't even know that. Yep i'm gonna. I'm gonna go punch a hole in my television real quick. Yeah so this brings us to our current crisis throughout the covert bent pandemic anti vaccines have been howling that this was a hoax or that it was a bio weapon that the chinese either released on purpose lost control of and now that the vaccines are untested and dangerous. This was all spelled out in yet another quote unquote documentary released in two thousand twenty called. Plan democ oh yeah. This piece of propaganda push push the conspiracy. That covid was manmade. The doctors and hospitals use the pandemic as a money making venture. That masks actually caused disease and that hydroxychloroquine is active in stopping cove. It absolutely none of this is true and his counterproductive dangerous. But if you know any anti vaccine is you can bet money. They've seen it. So the filmmakers have been discredited the whole thing is a piece of shit But it's out there and the final piece of the puzzle to talk about is the speed with which the covid vaccines were developed. Rather than with develop. Because that's a big trope of anti vaccine is this came out too fast Rather than seeing this as a towering achievement of medical science anti factors point to it as proof that it's all rigged their point being that the government had them all along or they weren't tested rigorously enough and we don't know what's in them or both or both legs to believe all the things that can believe all the things regardless of what it whether it makes any sense to the first point i can only say that if donald trump had been hiding the vaccine this whole time and the early release would have guaranteed victory. Is there any personal life. That thinks he would not have blurted it out at some point tolerate to the second point we do know what's in these vaccines you can look it up online. The thing is if you're not a medical or virological expert or can speak english like me. You're probably not going to fully understand the you know what's in the stuff but again i don't fully understand how the internal combustion engine works but i don't think it's a government conspiracy to get me to work on time in your car. People know it's fucking pizza when they order. That's exactly what i find it. Hard to stomach the argument that we should refuse to put something in her body unless we fully understand what it's what it's from. What's in it from the people who celebrate the return of the mcrib right right Yeah i mean think about that. The next time you cram doritos in your mouth and wash it. Down with vodka tonic so anyway And they were rigorous rigorously tested. No steps were skipped in stroke of genius. Many of the steps necessary to create and test vaccine were run concurrently rather than in sequence and insert and some of the funding for this process. Came from you guessed. It operation warp speed so through the teeth. If you must you can tell your antitax friends. That trump deserves some credit here although with five hundred thirty nine thousand caveats. Yeah so we're getting a little long in the tooth here. I thought it was important to cover all this ground. So let's just sum up. Vaccines do not cause autism. In children there is no such thing as vaccine overload. We know exactly what's in the covid vaccines they were absolutely tested are very safe and you should not be taking your medical advice from charlie sheen adam right. Take it from us exactly. Take it from your doctor. So you know i hate to do this. But if there are any anti vaccine in your life it might be a worthwhile effort to engage with them and try if you can to convince them or enlighten them or move them because this thing is bad. It's real bad and we need everybody onboard. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of well they're only risking their own lives because they're not. There's there's no peeing section. The public pool is it. Is it so dangerous to them. They're willing to go through another fucking year of this right. You know four or five years because who knows if a variant pops up that's trickier. That's harder to make a vaccine for. Yeah we're all fucked so thank. God we've got a vaccine yup get it get. Let's get the herd immunity so that you were okay. We need to do this together. And and you know someone's going to have to talk to these people going to have to be us. It's gonna have to be us if if not now when if not who us. That's right all right okay. Well thanks uncle doug. I know there was a lot of work. Yeah all right. let's move on. Well friends that is it for this week's barn burner of show. Hey you hate vaccinations. We'd love to hear from you because we want to yell at you send us an email at how to and how to heretic dot com or if you're an anti galactic safeness some kind don't bother calling us about it at nine zero three eight eight to nine three hundred four six hundred six. I'm also twitter heretic and always thinks where patrons who we will get back with next week and thanks to our dark lord cody layton frenzy show and thanks to all of you friends for tuning in by friends.