Episode 444: The Man Who Fell to Earth (1976)
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Are you taking me. WHO's like everybody else? He's he's he's a fake. Please don't understand. You might be able to save him Mary a new help me command the the man who nfl to Earth is a powerful love story a cosmic mystery spectacular fantasy a shocking mind stretching. Experience this site in space and sayings welcome come to the projection booth. I'm your host. Mike quite join me. This week is Mr Schism. Everything begins and ends in eternity. Also back in the booth is Ms Sam Degan we kick off Sifi December what they look at Nicholas rogues. The man who fell to Earth based on the book by Walter Tavist the Film Stars. Ars David Bowie as Thomas. Jerome Newton a strange man who appears in the office of a patent attorney with some big ideas that help them start on the road to untold wealth. Along the way he meets some colorful characters such as Candy Clark as Mary Lou a hotel worker and rip torn as a college professor. We will be spoiling doing this film all to hack. So if you haven't seen it police check it out and come back. We will still be here so when was the first time you saw the man who fell to Earth and what did you think I think I've only seen the film three times and I think that the first time was in the early nineties when I was working in a video store I mean. I'm a huge Bowie fan so I was very much aware of it. I saw pictures from the film in magazines for years. But it wasn't until I actually found a vhs copy that I could sit down and watch it. I wasn't sure what I thought. What about it? Of course they thought Bowie was really cool. And and I like Nicholas rogues filmmaking but yeah I kind of scratching my head a little bit after after. You're watching this one. I've now seen it a third time. I just watched it yesterday. Prep preparation for this recording. And I like it a lot more now than I did comb still scratching my head a little bit parts of it. How about you SAM? When Netflix I became a thing? I was so excited about it. That I added all these movies. I would just do sort of net flicks roulette and like not really see what was coming the next week. It was something that had always been on my list of things to see because of Bowie. But I didn't know anything about it and I think that was the best way for me at least to go into Hewitt and I just absolutely fell in love with it. I think because it's sort of my idea of what I want. Science fiction to be rather than this sort of like star wars generic space opera type thing. If if that makes sense you mean all them. Yoda's and Shit no baby Yoda's in this movie. I think I also saw the Swan. I'm vhs the first time and end cadrillion remember how old I was. But I will admit that I really didn't understand this movie very well at all the first probably two two or three times that I saw and maybe even more than that. But it's one of those movies that I keep going back to because I feel like I want to crack the code. Like there's more to this. I think reading Walter Services novel definitely helped. There are more things that can kind of understand now the filmmaking and the way that the story is told puts me off sometimes but not in a bad way. I mean we've talked about nick rogue on this show uh-huh before and I like this kind of fractured time. That he does and some of the more. I don't know just interesting at its that he chooses uses to do. I'm still trying to figure out a lot of this movie so this isn't going to be like. Hey we're going to tell you everything that there is in the man who fell to Earth. Because I don't know if I necessarily understand everything but that's what makes it great. There's an awful lot of detail in the film. That doesn't seem all that necessary necessary that I figured is probably There's probably more explanation for it in the book and a but then at the same time. There's a lot of stuff that isn't explained explained in the film that if they removed the unnecessary stuff they would have more time to explain the stuff that isn't explained. What are some of the things that feel that way for for you I I kind of feel like the whole back story of Bryce the whole You know sleeping with all the the students at the college. I don't really know how that is necessary to his character. Once he finally becomes part of the story but it seemed like there was a lot of time. And I kind of get the feeling that was a chance to throw throwing a lot of gratuitous nudity. It kinda seemed like all right we get it this guy. He's sleeping with these students. You know there's things that you know when I'm done watching the film I'm and thinking okay. What was that all about? And why did they explain that. But then I think about things like well. We sat there and watched all those sex scenes. They could have cut those out made room for explanations of other things. How how many other movies do you get? were girl talks into returns penis. Are there have to be at least one or two other ones. I would hope so may be made store. Yeah Yeah I don't I don't know I feel like that's why I love it so much because I tend to like a real thing. Long Art House movies views with minimal scenes of exposition. And I know that that's not for everyone but I think in a lot of ways that's what this is it just he kind of let the camera go and you do get the sense. That there's a fair amount of Improv. Which I love but I definitely think it makes this an acquired taste like I don't think I would ever meet a casual sci fi fan and say a all man if you love science fiction you really need to watch the man who fell to Earth? But you're right though. This is minimal science fiction. Yes David. Bowie is playing playing an alien but I think you could eliminate that and have this just a story of isolation and someone. WHO's not not of this time this was made in the mid Seventies? This is around the time where a lot of the stories about Howard Hughes and how he was locked away way in Las Vegas and had jars zone urine and all those kind of things and Thomas Jerome Newton to me. Feels like he and Howard Hughes could have been buds Hudson that way like he doesn't go so far as collecting his own urine but I think he would be fine being isolated from other people just because he is literally. I'm not the earth but figuratively as well. That's what a lot of the other scenes. Kind of underline is that everyone is extremely isolated. And I mean. Maybe that's just me at this point having seen a lot of roques films where that's kind of the predominant theme team and so I feel like those rip torn scenes provide Kevin Important contrast or even maybe a comparison to show you that. Yes he's from another planet or at least you know there's a reading of this film where he's not actually an alien he's just really paranoid. Hi De Imagining those sequences. But in either case it's like everyone is so isolated it's so depressing. Rip Torn introduced to him as being this Lothar. Eeo College professor. WHO's sleeping with his students and we get him with? I'm thinking three girls but there are two girls during this one sequence where we're cutting back and forth between these two sequences quences and it really feels to me like they just said okay. We're going to film the same sequenced two times with two different actresses and then we're going to cut the two things together because the lions are almost exactly the same but to your point. Sam If feels then like this is all scripted and this is just so wrote with with this guy that almost every encounter. He has with one of his students is going to end up sounding acting almost exactly the same some some of rogues editing style makes it as both of you explain the first time you watch this. You're just like what the hell sometimes in a good way. But sometimes in a way where it's like two disorienting. To make sense of it there will be moments where the camera will just be like. I don't know riding riding around in the back of a limousine and then we'll see fireworks and it's like okay. I'm not sure we're these. Fireworks are coming from. I'm not exactly sure how they fit into the story but there they are and so then it's up to us. I guess to try to figure out what's going on with this and sometimes I just want to say it's just there because it's there sometimes I think things in this movie are just there because they're pretty but I do WanNa talk about the star of the film because a lot of times David Bowie will overshadow this film as being film and I think that this film works so much better because billy is in it because Bowie has the weight that his persona has star persona had especially at this moment. David Bowie is. He's immortal I mean he's they always had that that presents to him at least as far as I'm concerned and then having him as this alien I think worked so well because he is super fucking skinny. He's got the the two-tone hair going on he's got the two different colored is the one I that's always more dilated than than the other. And he gives off that presence. Not just because he's got the English accent and he he is pretending to be an Englishman here in the United States. Very much like everybody. who was making? This movie was coming over from England but he also also has that that other worldliness of his own body. I can't imagine this with anyone else. It's a stupid redundant thing to say. Oh it wouldn't and do the same thing. If a different actor was cast elite but I just I feel like this is one of those performances. Where with certain like to provide provide a comparison? I guess with certain of those like great. Hollywood films are great British films where the central performance is just a really powerful stage actor. Sometimes I feel like you could swap some of those people out and he would get a different movie but an equally effective movie and I think to your point if it it. was anyone other than Bowie. I think the movie would just really fall flat because without his her sonal on his sort of charisma you wouldn't care about the character boase said and a lot of interviews that that he was pretty much playing himself you know. I saw the list of people that were considered. For the role Mick Jagger and stuff and they probably would've played themselves as well so anybody else in that row would have made that character completely clearly different than it definitely would not have been anything like the movie we ended up with and I can't think of another person that could have been cast in there. I think a lot of the reason the film is the film has a lot to do with. Because it's Bowie. Yeah it may still become a cult film with somebody else but it's really hard to imagine what this film could have been like with with somebody else. Yeah love that whole thing of rogue using rockstars in his films with Jagger and performance or Garfunkel uncle and bad timing and then Bowie in this one it felt like it was the perfect people to be in these roles and the I imagine that Jagger would have brought something think to this but Jagger. Yeah he's kind of funny looking but he doesn't have that alienness and then that character his it's Stage Persona for a long time was an alien. And so it's just it just felt like such a perfect match Bowie also seems like the intellectual Rockstar Rockstar and even the stories about making this thing when he showed up with three hundred books and they they laughed about how he didn't read enough. Who else would have shown up on set with three hundred books? I don't think for some reason I don't think Mick Jagger would have I think Mick Jagger would have shown up with cabinet full liquor and three three hundred teenage girls drugs definitely play a good role as far as this otherworldliness too. I mean I think he was pretty I don't think he was necessarily really doing drugs at the time while this movie is being shot or maybe. I'm just naive committed. That he said he said he was. He said he was doing like a pretty big bag of coke pretty much every day on set and was very paranoid than the way he got through who it was. He didn't really read the full script. He just would like look at what he was supposed to do that day and would just get through the day and so I think that's part of why he seems so alien. Guess and like he was saying in this interview that I was just reading. He was talking about how he was feeling like a person living in two different worlds at the time because of how he he just wasn't handling his fame very well or it was starting to exhaust him and I think probably the combination of a diet of milk in cocaine. It will make you extremely dissociated paranoid. Having seen a lot of people on Coke. Look at it's like I can't imagine how much coke you would have to do to act like that. Well that's why I was wondering if it's heroin because it just seems more like a A. He's kind of out of it rather than being hyped up. which is what I always associate with cocaine? Well I think if you do a lot of cocaine over a sustained period period of time. You're alert but you're not hyped up like ready to party you enter a sort of a my understanding is that. It's it's kind of like when you have bipolar. And you're in sort of an upswing. You're in this a manic state or with different kinds Bipolar there's a state called Hypo mania where you're just really alert and focused on things and it can make you seem a little standoffish. And so I feel like it's just because he did so much and you also have to think that like if he wasn't eating regular meals that probably contributed to eh however he was behaving it's amazing he lived through that I mean in the film seems like there's an awful lot of alcohol it's on I you know I would expect that on a real film set they would You know they might have the real bottles but fake liquid in them but you never know there could have been. Alcohol added to that that makes yeah and that's really at the heart of both the book and the movie I think is the this whole thing of alcoholism and the way that we see. Thomas Your Own Newton move from water and how precious water is to him to going into lying and then engine and then harder spirit says he goes along and that is so much of a part of the book is almost every character in every chapter is drinking or being offered drinks. I mean the first time that he meets with the Buck Henry Character. He's being offered a drink and he chooses to do water. And that really makes sense because water is like the most precious commodity on the planet that he's from if he's even from another planet because I think that's one of the things too is that while doing the research is hearing Bowie. Say That you know. He's assumed to be an alien from outer space. But it's is that necessarily true and the more that I think about it the more I wonder if those instances of him being in outer space or any of those things if that's all like delusions. I know that that doesn't necessarily add up with the Mary Lou stuff though once she tries to. Oh Oh my God that whole scene. It's okay She sees that he has alien form and then she pretty pretty much immediately after she wets herself she kind of swallows her pride or something and then tries to have sex with them. And I'm like really. You're going to do that right now. Now this just seems a little soon. Don't King Shame I'm trying to Yuck your yama anything but in even that whole scene is just so so trippy with like the the milk and the bodies and The the slow motion all of those things going on. So I'm just like is this even real. I'm very curious. Is the film trying to tell us. Maybe we shouldn't believe everything that we necessarily see. Is that that that moment that the fireworks that is bringing up earlier where. I'm just throwing it away. Should I think of these things as being more of what's inside of Newton's head than what's actually happening the real world. There's no question that he's an alien because he I guess the proof for me is that he has this technology the patents in everything that it sounds like no human could have come up with all of these. No human being would stack books like this like he would have to be the smartest person on the planet but it would have been interesting to really leave it open like is he or isn't he like I mean I guess that's sort of what we're discussing right now but I feel like there's almost too much stuff saying that. He is and not leaving it open to to a question you're familiar with the phrase man's reach exceeds his grass. Men's grasp exceeds is not society only tolerates one change. At the time. I I might try to change the world. I was hailed as visionary second time it was asked politely to retire those sequences that we're talking talking about with her could kind of be explained away by. DT's like she could be hallucinating from alcohol abuse. But I have to agree that overall the way it ends where he sees everyone age and he remains the same name. That's not super open ended but I also think this is the kind of film where it doesn't care like I don't think rogue rogue cares whether you think he's an alien or a paranoid genius with alcoholism I like. I don't think the film is more or less effective. If one explanation or the other it makes more sense like it's equally impactful. I think an equally tragic because either way he ends up being alone again at the end and depending on whether Oh you read the book or watch movie. He's either blinded by xrays or the X rays caused the context that he's wearing diffuse onto his eyes so help never be able to be the person that he once was. Never be able to be that alien again or at least feeling that he might think that he is. And the only reason why I'm harping on this whole thing of like him possibly not being an alien is because of some of those things like. There's a great shot of Mary. Lou Peeling offer fake nails. And I'm just like well. That's Kinda similar to what he has to do when he's peeling off his nails because his hands have no nails nails on them when he's in his alien form or peeling off the contacts those kind of things and then also when it comes to is we have so many themes of is is in this movie and looking and all that but especially the buck henry character with those crazy coke bottle glasses wearing and the other thing that I love love is when Candy Clark as Mary. Lou throws her wig at him and says you're an alien. You know what happened. Is they found out your visa expired. You don't know how could you your simple simple understand how we live here. We can read alien in those different ways as a as a nice touch as well but there are other hints of him definitely not being who he says he is and one of them die didn't even realize until doing the research on this was when Mary Lou takes him to church coach and they say we're going to sing this this him at which For an English friend of ours and they start singing Jerusalem which I associate associate with monty python because they were doing parodies of the song and he doesn't know the words and it's just like that's supposed to be a clue for us to know that he is not who he says he is right. Yeah I felt like there. Were other clues where he was the the Latin phrase that he didn't know asked me the question you've been wanting to ask ever since we went. Are You Lithuanian. And I come from us. Not so terrible. perodua AD Astra think about it. That's must know that. England Royal Air Force their motto Auto Ad Astra through difficulties to the stars. So Yeah I. I didn't believe he was British. I believe from outer space pretending to be British that scene I love the set. Set that glowing or but that they have and then those sound deadening cones that around. It's just one of the Best Sifi assets in what is this obsessively a non Scifi science fiction movie. That's the cover of station station the Bowie. Yes my impression or what I always thought to be true wasn't that he was supposed to do the score for this but there was some sort sort of timing issue or contract issues. We wound up not doing it but I just listen to this interview with him where he said that he he thought he was supposed to do the music but no one told him that and so he just started composing music and a couple months is into it found out like no one ever said that and so obviously he didn't do the score but he used the music he composed during during shooting some of it for station to station at some of it for low and I had no idea about that until recently there seems to be a lot of conflicting electing stories about the music and interviews. At the time he was saying that he was doing the music for it. And you would think that somebody with the film would have seen those interviews and said hey he's got the wrong idea but then there's also a report where he was paid like two hundred fifty thousand dollars to make music for the film. I forget where I read that but I just saw that while researching today and I was like so. He was paid to make music that he was asked to make like. Something doesn't really make sense there. And then in in the end they give it to the Mamas and the guy to do the thing I listen to him a Nicholas Roeg and Nicolas Roeg is like. Yeah no you weren't aren't supposed to do in like in a friendly way. And they both said that like the way that it turned out was the best possible away and so it wasn't like an angry like remember when you told me to to write this album you lacquer I feel like maybe we some of it is him giving interviews in drug field stayed and maybe you know thirty years after the fact people not remembering things clearly but either way I I actually really love the score to the film and so I'm glad that we have both music in whatever form IOS very surprised that the John Phillips Music was as good as it is and it really does seem to fit the peace and I- moreover I appreciate the other music the real songs that they bring into this especially Roy Orbison blue by I love that sequence when he is in front of all all of those. TV's and Mary Lou yelling at him and he's got blue by you on. That is probably that in the scene. where she wets herself are are probably the most memorable things from that? First Time of me watching this movie. The Roy orbison seen really stood out to me again because it was early nineties. I started the video store and suddenly had access to all these movies like Blue Velvet. Which also has a great Roy Orbison Song used in a number remember barring all these tapes and just dubbing all these scenes on the one tape that just featured cool music in them so I you know I had blue velvet? I had manifield Arison Some Alex Cox Movies but Yeah it's it's just sort of seemed like you can't go wrong putting Over Roy Orbison Song into a scene and the one thing that we we haven't really touched onto is that you can look at this whole movie as like some sort of a Christian allegory with this man who falls from the sky very Jesus e and then of course he's going to be betrayed and you could compare. It's interesting that the Mary Lou character was Eddie Joe in the book and then they made her Mary Mary Lou. So I'm like okay. Is that supposed to bring us even closer to Mary. Magdalene is that how we're supposed to look at this character and then you've got Bryce who mostly. Oh so he's just doubting Thomas he just really wants to know if Thomas Jerome Newton is who he says he is or if he something else and that's what drives him throughout the entire story is his not knowing and his suspicion that Newton is. It's not what he says he is or is something else and is interesting. There's none of this banging college coeds in the book. It's basically weekly him coming home. Finding these caps that some kids left in the hallway. Him lighting them on fire expecting them to explode would and when they do he doesn't smell gun powder and then he eventually starts to tie that in with a camera and with the film that Newton is producing goosing and then that drives him such that he actually quits working at the college where he's at and then begins working for Newton and works way all the way up to this outer space project that he's on and so yeah there's none of that dirty old man kind of stuff but it's ripped ktar it is rip torn and it's a prime rip torn. I am mostly use rip torn being older torn so seeing his prime is really quite astounding and I love watching him hosting an intergalactic Kager down here dodge. ORIG- your your bone you almost have to cast somebody with that much kind of explosive presence because otherwise otherwise how I mean as the film's antagonised. If he can't compete with David Bowie in some way like why would would you even care about the things that he's doing he needs presence and rip torn certainly had a lot of presence. I think it's also not coincidental told that we've got mentions of Christmas and here that there just seemed to be a lot of things where we're supposed to play into this whole idea of a Christian in allegory. But you can take it or leave it you know. It was just the same thing as what I was saying. As far as alien is he not Amelean is a delusion is a drug fueled whatever. Yeah if you want to read this as a Christian allegory go right ahead and knock yourself out. I don't think that ever occurred to me but I I also am a person who almost never reads things that way. I read the Narnia books as a kid and then when I was in college I took like a lot of medieval studies classes. And they're somebody said something like Oh you know of course is he. S Lois writing. All these Christian allegories I was like wait. Wait what guy just had no idea and so I guess I'm maybe the wrong person and having opinion about that yeah. I'm sure somebody much more well versed in Bible studies could probably draw more parallels and be like. Oh well the Farnsworth character character is. I don't know Peter Paul. I don't know when the Arthur character is definitely Judas because X. Y. Z.. But that's not me. I'm not able to go down that path. Unfortunately I didn't even realize that strange brew was a Shakespeare play I it took me years to figure that one out as well. So don't worry about it. See that one. I got because I really love Shakespeare. I haven't read the play before I saw the movie so it probably would what. I was ten when I saw not in I will be honest. I read the first line the witch in the wardrobe the CS Lewis Book and I never got Christian allegory. Out of it. Maybe maybe later on it gets much more but feel better okay. Yeah don't don't sweat it so I never made it to Christian allegory. No I I was just really turned on by that winter. Which while watching the cartoon my poor child how cold you look come? Sit with me here on this lineage manage and I will put my robe around you and we will talk for hats. Something oft oft tutoring there and would you like something to themm deny. I thought she was so scary to super hot to me. I don't know don't Yuk-mai Yum the Bernie Casey characters also not part of the mix. When it comes to the book? He is wholly made up for the movie. And I'm still like once last weekend into that area is just like okay. Well this kind of makes sense that we've got this. I'm guessing working for the government kind of angle going on here but I really am. Frankly I didn't need that. I was okay with when the net closes on Newton that the government was aware of this stuff all along. Especially because there's that guy at the very beginning who sees Newton coming down and coming down that hill that he traverses a- and he shows up a couple times and he just seems like to me seems like the government because he's dressed in a suit and he's there watching and it feels like okay. They're always gonNA know whatever moves we make so this guy represents the government. I didn't necessarily need a different personification right so it's not let me. They actually don't explain who that guy was right. No no those scenes are the least fulfiling. Some of that. I kind of wish had been trimmed a little. I guess I'm fine with the rip torn sex scene staying in will yeah. Let's not be crazy. I know come on and maybe guys can tell me a little bit what you take away from the gun. Play that Newton Mary Lou have. That's it's just always struck me as weird to act can only assume that it's insanity from being cooped up tested so much but why he even has the gun John. Let's give this crazy guy testing a gun. I would assume you know when he pulled it out that there wouldn't be any bullets in it because again why would he have it if it were a loaded weapon but he also was able to just kind of walk out of there that anyone stopping them so I not completely sure like what that place place was and how he was being held you know again. That's one of those things that I feel isn't explained perfectly in the film or isn't explain it all I don't think But maybe you guys got something from it that whole sequence. Where like with the gun play but also how he just kind of magically magically walked out of there? I think that is sort of a strong some strong evidence for the fact that he is just having a delusion but I also think that it's just very Nicolas Roeg I mean. He has in almost all of his movies. These very intense transgressive kind of raw sex scenes. And so it seems to me. And I definitely didn't didn't think this the first time I watched the film but like now that I've seen it a few times I've seen some of his other films. It seems kind of inevitable that he would have some sort sort of crazy hallucinatory sex scene and so I guess my takeaway is like yes. Of course this is in here. I don't really know exactly why there guns guns involved but I think it may be just to show the state of their mental deterioration delusions probably the best explanation nation for all of it. Yeah the only thing I really got out of. It was possibly a callback to those caps that I was talking about. How how the World Enterprises Corporation they make all these things but they seem to mostly make cameras photographic equipment Phil but then of all the things that they make they make caps for cap guns which is seemed like the most incongruence thing I mean when he switches everything anything to spaceflight? Then it's like okay. I guess this makes sense. Just because he's got all the money it doesn't necessarily make sense in a business sense and then of course in twenty nineteen. I'm laughing because I'm thinking of like an Elon. Musk character because I'm just like Oh. So you're GONNA DO SPACEX as well all right. Yeah that makes sense one one of the things that we haven't really talked much about. Is this whole the way that this kind of anti capitalist anti the big government thread is wound in there until I think some of it has to do with that. It doesn't even seem like it's just talking about the government but but it seems like it's also talking about America overall. I mean going back to the idea of him having this gun one of the first things that he encounters counters when he goes in and tries to sell his ring to this woman in a shop. It's not a pawnshop when she opens a drawer there's there's a gun laying there and that's one of the first of many guns that we get through this whole thing and us being Americans. We know that we love our guns and don't try to take him from us. It also kind of breaks that rule though that that you know when you see a gun in one act. It's going to play an important role in another act. I forget what that rules called but check check off. I thought Oh I know. They're saying Russia that so this movie you know. It doesn't really doesn't really work. I think the only time we see a gun being fired is that that crazy sexy. That's true of so many things in this movie where something is introduced introduced and then it's just never resolved explained. He gets twenty bucks. I rang and the next time we see him. He's counting this huge wad of one hundred dollar rebels. I'm like wait a second. What the hell happened between here? Did he have that. Many rings pulled out that that collection of rings. So I mean I'm guessing. He just came with a whole bunch of rings that he went around and sold and that's how he got all this cash but yet did seem kind of kind of quick and I guess that's one of the first hints that like like time in this film is in the pacing in the actual progress of time are not what you're expecting out of a movie in this film now that I've seen it a few times. It's one of my favorite things about the film. But if you're not used to this kind of more art house experimental experimental editing style. And you've never seen any rogue films. I can see how it would be a little bit of a challenge for somebody the first time around. Especially because it's over over two hours long right when they cut back to Buck Henry at one point and he's now an old man and Mary Lewis still the same age she is and rip torn seems to be the same H.. Is I'm just like well. Wait a second. When did he meet Mary? Lou and when did he meet Professor Brice versus when he met Farnsworth because Thou farnsworth earns worth is old. And I'm just like immediately trying to do this whole time. Line in my head and then also wondering if I'm going back and forth in time when I'm watching these things and that's also a possibility so it's a really nice touch to. This is the way that we're moving through time that Thomas Jerome Newton is moving through time untouched touched whereas all of the human characters are aging. Time is a flat circle. I really do appreciate the way that they put all that stuff together in that we don't know exactly how long he has been on earth and that we also had that interesting for lack of a better term time travel sequence once where he is riding in the back of the Limo again and he looks out and CONC- The early American settlers looking back at him writing in Lamelo and they see him and he sees them. And we have that crazy. Cornball Western type music going on and then the car just disappears. I thought there's interesting because not only do they see him but they also see telephone poles in twenty nineteen digitally remove those telephone poles. Don't say that out loud because because then we'll wind up with some awful blade runner type situation where some producer will be like yes. Let's edit a more futuristic version of the man who fell to Earth you're using lots of CGI we can make David Bowie. Look better as this alien. And then he just looks like an abomination he looks like judge banks. Could you imagine that's what they would do to that like. Sweat Lodge on rails that they have in this well and The sex scenes yet. Now I don't I don't WanNa picture this scrub this from my brain. I like Hell Nicholas. roeg thought that that would everything was looked like a dog Kennel. I thought it looked like a cake was like a a big cake with windows. Yeah and they keep going back to that. I forgot how many times that go back to his family on whatever and then the or I can't remember they call it in the book but or Mars for lack of better term. I went down the rabbit hole of. I know it's wrong and I know I shouldn't have don it but I went down the rabbit hole of reading more. Contemporary reviews of this film and one of them is reviewer. Basically basically was saying the tone was very much like even though this is the seventies film. It's still worth your time. Which one thousand nine hundred? Ninety six is my favorite year for cinema period ever and so I immediately was enraged by the first paragraph off but at the end as he's closing and he he liked the film overall but as he's closing he was like the only parts that I really had a lot of trouble. With where the parts were they. Show David Bowie's alien family back on his home planet or back. Oh what must be his home planet. Who's like it really just can't hold up to today's CGI? And I was like part of me just died. I read one where the guy was bitching about. The film that developed developed itself in the can and he was just like well polaroid's were invented in nineteen forty six so this isn't really that spectacular technology. No I read that too. It was like really that guy was so fucking snotty. I could not stay in that review. I know. Better than to read reviews news of Sixties or seventies films of Art House films especially at exploitation films. But sometimes it's like I just can't help myself. I'm like possessed by some spirit. I wanted to just mention before I forget about it. The the alienness of Newton again the way that he almost like astro projects projects to the bryce character when braces out fishing and he shows up and he's just like hey there's nothing to worry about and disappears and then when he meets him the next day it's supposed has to be for the first time I kind of appreciate that one as well that Bryce has this vision and I guess maybe that maybe that takes me back to the whole Christian allegory. Gory thing maybe that's another thing. That one of the disciples had a vision of Jesus before he met him. So why do you persecute me. I am Jesus whom you persecute tomorrow. Dr Bryce then NBA suspicious but that was a nice touch that it's also strange that bryce lives on one side of the lake and Newton lives on the other side of the likes. So they're like constantly could be looking at each other and never actually talking. Yes I kind of wondered if that was imagined or if that was real I mean David Lynch territory there. This film must've been an influence on him. I mean I know that rogue had to have been in general. Just it's like based on the editing style but it does seem very like I think if you watched men fell to Earth and then you watch the most recent season season of twin peaks. You see a lot of weird similarities. Do they see that candy. Clark was in twenty six. Oh yes and again Roy orbison well yeah and then Phillip Jeffries who turns into a giant teapot. He also does not talk about Judy in this movie. Either it's a crime against cinema in if I were not gonNA talk about Judy at all. I feel like I'm picking on this movie a lot but I have to say that I still find it infinitely fascinating and I really really enjoy pulling this movie apart and putting it back together because there are so many different ways that you can read it and it is sensual no and I love the audio mix. I love the way that this looks. I really like a lot of the performances. I mean I was watching the scene earlier with the when he is about to take off in the gym level is there and the you've got the different broadcasts going on and either ear which is nice and watching this movie with headphones on on his surreal treat. Yeah this is something I've always really wanted to see in a theater and hopefully that will happen one day but that is probably true of all of his films that they're just not meant to be watched on television. I mean like walkabout performance. It's like they're supposed to be in your face and in your ears. I guess as as it were I've seen walkabout on the screen and that was amazing. I would I'd love to see Don't look now on the big screen because you really WanNa see a giant version of Donald Sutherland's ass exactly. I mean me to more than when I got to see it in a national Lampoon's animal house because frankly I haven't seen don't look now yet and I would love to see but just kind of waiting for it on the big screen. Yeah you should. You should wait. Have you seen performance. I have but only on an old vhs tape performance as one of those things that I think because of the Weird Warner brothers rights issues sort of like with the devils. I don't think it has like it's ever GonNa. You're not anytime soon. Going to get some kind of like Torrington theater release or thirty thirty five released but I I would really love if it did will. There are so many different avenues that you can take when you talk about this movie and I know that we're kind of all over the map but it feels inappropriate for this film to not necessarily talk about linear way and that sort of what I was thinking earlier today is that I feel like with the projection booths. You tend to be really good at sort of working through a film in particular like logical order and this is one of those movies where you really can't do that but I think that would also be true if you talked about walkabout or performance and to a different extent. Don't look now it just. I think that's just his style as a filmmaker. What you were saying about how it's rewarding because there are so many different ways to talk about it or think about it? It makes it difficult to do a critical analysis because like there's no only a to Z discussion. It's just sort of all over the place as movie. I don't find it any coincidence. That the editor of this movie also worked on. Don't look now which was another wrote but also worked on images because I feel like they're rogues work and Altman's work at least in images feel feel like they were kind of sharing the same error. Oh definitely three women as well. Oh Wow yeah yeah. I wonder if if he worked on that too because the there are a lot of similarities like my brain always wants to group things by team and that would be a really intense hence five or six movie marathon. You probably would would need a drink at at the end of that during it graeme Clifford also just Since we're talking about this also directed an episode of Twin Peaks. So there you go bringing it all together episode. Oh two point five so sometime in that weird second season so I'm not sure if that was before they talked about who actually killed Laura or if that was Maybe be more of a James on his road trip. Don't say that I james was in town recently at. I couldn't bring myself to go now. James is so cool. He's always been cool. He never had David Bowie on the other hand always always cool. Yeah always always eternally even when he's dancing in the street even when he's in just a Gigolo which like I heard someone talk about films like like labyrinths and men fell to Earth and their their argument was like these are only good. It was a stupid David argument but it was. These are only good films because they have somebody as charismatic. David Bowie clearly. You haven't seen just a Gigolo which he David Bowie could definitely not save. He's still cool. But you're also like I was really hoping that you meant that he was in the David Lee Roth music video for Justice Tikolo he stars in it actually. Oh Wow it's him with the ship's captain hat on. It's not really David Lee Roth. Holy cow is an actor and a half wow. He learned how to do split cakes gesture that video there are certain movies and certain musicals and certain works of art that I'd like to go back to time and again even though the end in tragedy and this is another one of those. This is like Jesus Christ superstar or Vida. I know that things are going to go bad at a certain point in this movie. It always happens and I always hope it doesn't happen but it still happens nevertheless because as lonely as Thomas Jaren Newton is at the beginning. He's going to be worse than that at the end of it. It's so hard to watch. It's almost like it's like vampire movies. Where everybody they know grows old and dies but they stay the same age in here? He is at the end of the movie. Still young and good looking but you know completely smashed and everybody that he's known throughout the movie. Is You know they're they're elderly at this point after we're he passed after David Bowie passed away. I wish I was very upset about a normally. I don't like get that worked up about celebrity thirty deaths but I- unwisely that day did a double feature of the man who fell to Earth in the hunger. There's a lot of crying all right. Let me tell you. The hookers. Almost good. Follow it because he goes from not aging at all to all of a sudden over aging in that one but they have a lot lot of very similar themes about isolation and loneliness in sort of trying to trying to figure out what being human means in trying to make connections and to me even more than the ending. That's what's so tragic about the man who fell to Earth is. He's sort of trying through Mary. Lou's character is sort of trying to figure out what it means to be human and he just winds up with all these horrible vices vices. He it seems like he doesn't get any of the positive experiences. Just awful ones. We're going to take a break break. Play a series of interviews. First up you'll hear the conclusion with our interview with candy. Clark you can hear the first part of that over on our more American graffiti episode after that you'll hear from author author Sam Omlund and last but not least you'll hear from author Susan COMPO and we'll be back with all of those right after this brief messages. Did you know you can get more value from your Medicare coverage. Choose optima Medicare HMO and get medical and prescription drug coverage plus and he adds benefits like dental vision and allowance for over the counter products with plans starting at just your dollars per month. The Medicare annual enrollment period carried ends on December seventh. So visit US online today. Learn more at OPTIMA health dot com slash Medicare. I'm Chris Cooling from Forgotten Gotten TV. And you're listening to the projection booth the ultimate movie podcast you like classic movies how about classic. TV OVER IT forgotten TV. I've I have covered everything from obscure Saturday morning. TV too short live shows like other world. The Phoenix the highway. Man and cliffhangers. You can find the show over it for Gotten DOT TV or at all the usual podcast places. I hope you'll join me soon at forgotten TV. Hey do you like movies movies. Of course you do. Your listened to Mike White's phenomenal podcast the projection booth. I'm here however to tell you about another movie loving podcast shaming list picture. Show my name is Michael Vice and the show was created by myself. and my good buddy filmmaking. Nick Richards Twenty six years away for him and I had to stay connected and to keep movies in our lives premise. Thomas is simple. Each of US composed a list of shame filled with movies. We've I've missed. had no interest in or just feel the scene. We've covered a wide range of films on Heather's The godfather the exorcist your the hunter from the future Phantom tollbooth ace. Salou Amazing Vinegar Syndrome. Titles and some that are not so good plus our massive rocky episode that features in new interview with Lloyd. 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The projection booths brings you new show possibly even to focusing on all genres of cinema. If you've sat through the seven hour Conan episode the Six Hour Star Wars also'd or even the our Lam's superb Manam sewed you know that Mike and his co host put forth a lot of work and range of researching the movies tracking down the interview subjects and putting together one of the best podcast on the Internet. Now I'm asking you if you can repay all that hard work by giving back to the projection. The show has a patron fund razer at Patriot that spe-. At All E. O. N. dot com forward slash projection booth. You can mm donate as little as a dollar a month. That's twelve dollars a year. At least fifty great shows and to terrible ones that surprise to me tickets how is the projection booths would fit once again that's Patriot dot com slash projection booth donate day. It's the bright thing to do. Well how did you get cast in the man who felt earth. Let's say I was introduced introduced nick road by living off and then I hit it off like instantly. One day I was with him and at the Beverly Hills Hotel And he had a meeting with Producer type and he said wait out here. And here's the script might want you to read it. You can read this while I'm in the meeting and So I thought okay so I was reading it with nothing in mind except just to read it. I I read the script Nixon the meeting for our two. I'm reading the script and it was really great. I loved it and when he comes out he said well what did you think I said. Oh it's fantastic. You need to do this movie us as great and he said. Do you want the part art. I'm like yes And then that was before anyone was cast that before there was any money or you know any production the money any production office. Nothing and I was just hired just then in there and it was so I got to watch the whole process process of this thing getting off the ground and The cast being hired. And you know wonderful behind the scenes stuff. Have you ever had that experience before. The first one higher for a project Now I don't think so. That was just a lucky lucky. Lucky break I got to watch everything as it unfolds that you know and it unfolded fairly quickly and it was the first time on all British Crew to Nick Rob you know as an established director in England so he had his people you know that he wanted to work with and they brought the a home All of his people n from England so it was all British crew now is great. Do ever worked with that much makeup before. Because I know that you go through a pretty amazing transformation and the film they call it a appliances and they do them so much. You know. They're so much more realistic today. Like you know inanity Murphy plays on a his character. You can't even tell and everything seems to move you've so well you know the rubber and the latex but I had never worked with that many appliances you know the neck the cheeks the hands and all the Glynn and it would just I. I spent a couple of weeks in that make up and I tallied up my out hours every redel right down my hours of just spending time in the chair and The turtle was ninety six and a half hours. I've just been glued and and hovered over and made up and and once you've got that make up on. They tell you you I try not to use your mouth. You know much because it was start cracking around the lips and the cheeks and all of that and so so I would tell her when you know. Don't marry laugh. Don't laugh and I had to drink through a straw. You know it was. It was a challenge. It was really fun and I thought that You know I came across it really. Did you know the aging aging and that film was we had to keep track of time because David boies character never aged and so every senior like how many years have passed. You know so you would kinda know anti Yeah it was very complicated but it was Much Fun and in David and I had a lot of dialogue and by then I'd gone to acting classes so I know a little better of how to you know. Make a character and all that but David Bowie was wonderful to work with and he was a hard worker he liked to rehearse. And we'd be working on one seeing you know. Oh shooting wants him back then you know at lighting and all that was it was real film so It took a long time to light and set up up and they've had to put down Dolly tracks and stuff like that which would be very time consuming now with the steady cam and and with digital cameras as is not as much down time as it used to be but When we were doing a scene like Ping simpons thing? You know we would be doing that but on our brakes which were many and they had to rely and re locate all the lining. We'd these you know sitting on the floor. Run in the next scene the lines for the next thing so we were always like one scene ahead getting it perfectly memorized so You know came out smooth and like real conversation but I thought David who was so beautiful at that you know as skin is translucent and his hair was I mean it was just gorgeous person and I was really lucky that I had never seen him in concert. So I wasn't impr- you know I was. He was just another actor but after the movie was over shot a got invited to one of his concerts became like a groupie. Oh my God you know. I was a totally different scene. And I was so happy that I hadn't hadn't had been influenced by you. Know his being on stage because then it went up. I've been a little more. I Dunno referential or something. Take me a little more good guy but I was glad I never been to concerts until after in that case. It's like the shoes a little bit on the other foot because by this time you're the experienced sector and this is one of his first roles. Well he had other roles but He was really into the character he loved the script and he was very respectful of the script. And I mean we didn't really we. You didn't change any dialogue. It was as written by Paul Mars Burke and the the dialogue was so beautifully written and the responses in the back and forth. That you did not you. You did not want to change anything because it was perfect and my and mine and I think David's David. David is a big reader to and so am I so we knew we know good riding when we read it when you're jumping back and forth in time so much at least in the the the movie as I watch it. Were you shooting that in order you also shooting that out of order I think The scenes were determined by the location nation. You know so all the things that were done at that kind of Japanese the house. We're all done at once and you know it's all all determined by the locations. Is it true that you're also the alien woman as well I am I asked. It's a play the life on the planet and also I played David Bowie thing. I heard about that. How did that happen? At the time. He wouldn't didn't fly. He was very superstitious about flying and So there was a scene where he's coming out of his characters coming out of the world enterprises Office building and Since he wouldn't fly volunteered. I'll go to New York and but So that's me when his costume and I have on a Little Red Wig and I'm walking out of the office building and into a Limo And I had a little barricade setup but there wasn't a lot of people watching us but the few that were watching. They're saying there's David Bowie. There's there's David Bowie and I'm like yes. I fooled him. But you know our job. Lines were not alike so I and that scene I have my hand ended up to my job my chant as I'm walking tasks 'cause I knew you know he has a man John Line and I don't itself so I just try to cover up that make up for being the alien. I mean that was before they had perfected contact. Lenses and stuff severely hurt. No well. I'M A I've been wearing contacts since the sixties hard lenses to this day so it was a no no big deal although we did kind of have a little bit of a crises and We couldn't see through them because they were painted. But some sort of maybe oil base taint Into those cats so there was no pupil hole or anything and then they put over that some of the urethane or Vera. Thing to feel it and So you could not see through them so you were really working blind and you had to be guided by the director. Okay a move this way turn that way go straight go straight okay. Slow down you know and So you see us. We're coming down a hill of sand and the customer had put us in these plexiglass shoes with a high Soul may not clear plastic plexiglas. And we had those on to make us look like I. I guess she wanted us to look like we were floating down the hill which is a great effect but they were like skis. We couldn't wear so we had to wind up walking barefoot but yeah We tried those David Hammer likes Liden and like you know it was like impossible but we had these tanks on our backs with a pink water than the tanks hoses were springing lakes. And we're out in the white sands of Alamogordo and You know it was the costumes. Were this real thin thin Dan Stretchy fabric that was pretty much see through although it. You don't see much on film but when you're standing there and in the thing is getting wet you know and nobody cared you know. They'd seen US naked before so I there's like more of the same but yeah it was Really Yeah I like playing the wife on the planet and you know. His help never arrived. Jason you know we die out there me and the kids and we had a little hologram. That was one of the first. holograms that It is in a film you know you really couldn't see it but you kind of see and I'm holding up this plastic thing that's called Hologram and back then that was real cutting edge edge but As it was amazing adventure and we were in New Mexico for a couple of months fabulous place. How did took it into that head space of that complete breakdown after you see him as the alien that day where where I I'm going Tommy Tommy? You know. I'm like waiting in bed and I'm painting my nails anyway. And we're knocking on the door. And I've Kinda goofing around and going Tommy can you hear me. You know. Just been stupid between takes that day he got at six. David got sick so when they opened the door all. That was there with the camera and cameraman David. Bowie was not there. I just had to pretend kindy was there and I had to pretend that I'm seeing my boyfriend. Has He really is for the first time. And I was in an Improv class and There was a this was an idea that I stole from another actor. That was in an Improv class. Where the actor actor got scared and for a split second? His feet were on the wall. He was suspended and then if he came down. I thought that looks neat. So when I the the character Newton for the first time as he really is I thought I will see him and throw myself back and behind me was a wall and a bookcase and I would just be projected back. You know like just by force fear and I just would throw myself back over and over again and then So I was really bruised up the backs of my arms and my legs but it was effective and then I was the characters in the script runs into the bathroom and throws up. That's how it was written but I drank. There's this thing called EPA CAC which is a a medicine to make you throw up if you've been poisoned or something so I drank this if attack and we're waiting around for it to take us back because I really wanted to throw up the first person that throw up on screen for real and It didn't work drink the whole bottle. Nothing so well well you know I had no nothing from it and anyway so we regrouped and so I had this image of Mary Lou. You like when you touch a frog toad. How a toad will you pick him up and he just peas all over your hands and so I had? There's image of Mary Lou. She gets touched by her boyfriend. who like totally different? That causes her to be like the frog. You know all over the place so that was a i. I don't think anyone's ever done that but that wasn't real. That was done with two being and all of that I couldn't and do that on command That was all living a little bulb and you know so colored water put Mary. Lou is like recoiling wailing. This thing comes out of the bathroom and touches her face and she's just like you know that scene in particular just hours florist may just how real you make that. I just have to imagine it really hard. And what what what would you do is after years of being with someone they they take off all their stuff and they're they are Yeah ask you'RE GONNA are. You GonNa Throw Up or pee your pants one. What are you GONNA do? Run Run for the hills or try to go up rate somehow. It's your wife you know so. Anyway Mary allude goes into the bedroom. And there's Newton and you know he's just looked like a kind of big little salamander she tries her best. But it's too revolting stuff. Gets all over my hands like and then the next time you see Marilu issues in the kitchen and it's all this warped vision in like a fish. Islands his down on the floor in the kitchen going in crying and go and why why why put a little strain on the relationship chip. Suddenly you kind of change your mind about your your husband or your wife or your boyfriend boyfriend now It's a lot to handle a lot and so I read. That David Bowie was on a skateboard for you to pull him. But I always was curious how you pulled off picking him up and carrying him. I don't imagine that was you actually carrying him. I thought that's what happened and it might have happened in some of the things but my brothers said there was a list on the camera camera and he was on the list. But I do remember US capable when I pulled him out of the elevator. He's Kinda just easy to a slide. You see pull him out of the alligators L. Elevator and he just kinda glides and he had he was balanced on a skateboard at that point. So you know and then Mary Lou real heavy let me pick him up so you know the cameras right there. Aaron David I the my task was to keep his his head and his legs in the frame keep him bowed up so and he was his thing. He's passed out so you know I really had to work with an actor that's supposed to be passed out and not helping so but required a lot of arm strength and plus getting them down the hall and I had something between my legs and it was you know I had to get him into the bed and and I kept my shins kept hitting the bed frame and so you you know but you can't. You're getting hurt but you can't react to that you just kind of have to the thin it out and just do do what you're supposed to do and look at the damage later but yeah it was. It was fun house the Group to work with as a director well back then directors were onset. Now they're an on in another room looking at a monitor which is not as much fun but back then he was right just right out of frame name and you know he was very specific and had a lot of instruction and great ideas. Who was like a coach just you know and and he just got us through it and you know it was his vision and we just kind of portrayed his vision you know he was really really good with with Direction huge fantastic and it really helped fund your coaches right there just out of frame. You know it's just inches away and you can kind of see why you're doing the scene. You can still have peripheral vision so you can still see him. You know his excitement or are you know a body language which is kind of helping you along to you. Know like like like a Boxing coach you know you'll see if you see a boxing coach and as boxers in the ring you'll see their their body language is like they're fighting to you know so the director is is fighting to get you through the scene because it's film and if you stop or halt or go forget your lines then as you have to start completely Over and so as expensive. Now it's all digital so you can pick up a scene. You know you foul up and just start where you left off basically basically. That's not the same. I don't share too many scenes with him but how has returned to work with easy as he was quite the Hansel Hansel when we did scenes like once sing together where the restaurant is easy as Pie Wonderful Book Henry does amazing in glasses and I tried those on. I you know I said. Let me see what these are like. You couldn't see it was like you're wearing to magna fires on on your. You couldn't see to walk you couldn't and if you put your hand down like you're sitting on the Sofa and you reach for the arm of the SOFA. It was so distorted. You would think that the arm was like lower or higher than then. You thought so you're just kind of feeling around because everything was totally distorted boarded and he managed to get through it even though he could not see a thing. There was just like wearing to like magnifying. Glasses is on your eyes. Try walking around that that. Yeah we overcame. Did you end up there premier for that did you go to that. There was one in England. I went for that one. Yes well I was supposed to go on a two week tour to promote the film and it was put out by this. This company called Cinema Five. A man named Dan Rogov on that. And that was a real art house disturbing company and they took pride and putting out director's cuts. You know the total director's vision and it was kind of like I can't think of the name of the company Anthony that Did Real classy until the guy got. Oh like Miramax Yeah. It was like near Mac but smaller and like Miramax when it started out with do art art style and you know real unique not not your action hero stuff but real solid anyway. Cinema five was like that and So Nick was very thrilled. He'd spent like a year editing being the film and they had a premier in England and it was very successful and I went over there for that and then it was time for it to open in the US. And I was to go on a two week tour. Promotional tour which I like doing promoting is not hard for me. I enjoy it and I asked Don Ruge Office. I can see the film. Just refresh myself so I can know what I'm talking about. You know it'd been awhile mile and so they're so sure we're in a big old theater and I and I like there are a couple of other people there but big movie house and I'm watching this fill and it was had been chopped to ribbons and I without EPA CAC. I almost threw up in the theater. I was so upset. And they had reduced the the film from two hours than twenty three minutes to to our flat movie and I guess they're theory was that I thought it was going to like clean up and two hours as as long enough to get the next crowded. Well that really backfired. So I'm watching this mess of a film and it turned out I discovered ever that they had hired a guy who edits commercials to edit the film and he had just handed the bit. It took him a week. To edit edit what Nicaragua and Graeme Clifford took a year to shoot to edit. So he just did it willy. Nilly it was just like scenes scenes. were out of out of order from Nick Growth Cut. They were edited. It was just like what the heck has happened. You know. You've lost a fifth of the film. One fifth is gone so I had the bad. I had to call Nick and say well you know it's all been chopped up and ruined and believe I think he was. I don't know how he reacted but he did not sound happy and I was to go on the road with this and promote this and they wanted me to lie and say that's how that's the director's cut and so ah I remember my first appointment. They put me up at a really Nice Hotel and I remember it was. The village voice was my first. You Know Oh appointment and I'm supposed to be discussing this film and I'm in my sweet and I remember they. They had their PR guy sitting there. Listening to everything I'm saying and I'm like trying to sell this film film and you know be real positive about it but I was just so nervous and so upset and I'm lying I'm really you know and I'm lying for the wrong. The people I don't know these people I don't know you know cinema five. I know nick grow you know and I just at one point the the Pr Guy goes to the bathroom. And then I just quickly said to the village voice people. I'm lying it's terrible. They've cut it to this. You know I was like yeah. I spill the beans and then the PR guy comes back out. And he's like so you know and then I pick up on the story so yeah. David boy was Leonard me. I'm like but I felt like a prisoner of war. You know in the warden in a just left and I'm like trying to get help anyway. Call my manager Pat McLean. I said Pat. You know. Here's what's happened. I can't. I can't can't do this. I can't lie and say this is how the film is. She said. Check out get on a plane. Come on and I just bailed eld and years later that was the only company. put it out and you know VHS and it was just this horrible. And I'd get so many any bad people like what's going on. You know it just makes no sense terrible movie and you know. It's getting horrible horrible reviews by Rex Reed and and this other guy named John Simon they said Richard said. We're all running around in fright wigs and John. Simon who is a you know a high end review or a films you know slaughtered it and then everyone did. Everyone did of course. Didn't make two pennies to rub together. You know for cinema five but years later I was living in New Jersey and I read that Don Rogov was no longer with the company so I thought maybe I'll give them a call and I call the company company and I said Hi. My Name is candy. Clark and I I said you know I am constantly being asked about this movie which wasn't true but I said that and I said you know you ought to bring out the uncut version. I think you guys can make a lot of money. Just use the same poster. Strap strap a banner across it saying director's cut uncut version. I guarantee you're GONNA make a lot of money. I said if you want me to go out and promote it and sell let. I said that's easy for me to do. I'd love to do it so hayes that you know the man. I spoke to really liked the idea India and I and so a couple of weeks later. I Say I'M GONNA follow up on that and see how it's going and I spoke to the same man and he said well bad news. I'm like like what and he said are Negative as all the negative was the dopey auto commercial editor cut the negatives and so instead of printing the negative so there's two copies Nah they just chop up the original. I'm like well I said well I know where it is. I said call these people British lion there in England and they'll help you out and they did and to this day. The horrible cut version is totally gone. And all you see is the uncut the director's cut and you know it's as it took a while but mission accomplished yeah And I'm so glad 'cause I hated so much that chopped up version. Oh Yeah you lost a fifth of the movie plus it was put all in Other orders and it's like you were in one that I love that I don't know no I don't think you like it as much. which was your next film that was released which was citizen spanned business ban? Yes I did that with you. Know they were at that time you know Two way radios. And you know breaker breaker and all of that stuff was going on on and I guess I thought they you know the writer. I think it was Marshall Brickman. If I remember correctly anyway he was Jonathan. Demme and Freddie Sills was the producer and he had a script that I really wanted to do which was more of a character study called a looking for Mr Good Bar Which Diane Keaton eventually got but my motivation for doing citizens band was hoping to get looking for Mr Good Bar and You know of course that didn't happen but You know citizen band I haven't seen it in years ears. I was with Paula. Matt you know I don't know I just didn't care if I really wanted looking for Mr good bar. I thought that was better writing writing and I liked the book and everything so anyway. We got it into the White House though you did. Yeah Jimmy Carter along the way Jimmy Carter was running for president and they had a Like a meet and greet Jimmy Carter at the Beverly Wilshire Your Hotel so I I went and while I was there I met this his poster whose name was packed Cadel and I said you know Jimmy Carter is GonNa win and I said I'd like an autograph photo of him. 'cause he's GonNa win you know you just have a hunch and you just say it out loud and Pat Cadel and I stayed in contact and he got me an autographed picture. Jimmy Carter and sure enough. He won so patent cadel and I had you know we talk here and there and I said Pat thank. You can get this film into the White House because they had a screening room there and he said Yeah I can try and next enough me and Freddie fills are in Washington. DC and we're in the screening room The White House and Jimmy Carter didn't serve wine. You only serve water. It was a teetotaler unlike his brother and It was folding chairs and a screen like a projection screen. That was the screening room at the time and I remember the lights. We're all sitting on these folding chairs and the lights go down and Oh right before the lights go down little. Amy Comes in and she's sitting on the first row and Ross Win and lights go down the movie starts and amy has a flashlight and she sitting on the first row and she has this briefcase case open and she the whole movie she is looking into this briefcase. I don't know if she had a hamster I don't know if she was doing her homework. I have I've no idea but it was such a distraction and nobody said the little amy. Hey Amy you know. Shut the briefcase. We're trying to watch a movie. We saw the homeland was spent with those light in the first row and this flashlight anyway it was a real pleasure and it was a real treat and and went out after the movie Me Pat Cadel Hamilton Jordan. Jody Powell went bar hopping and I just remember. They took us. Pat showed me at one of the press bars where the press drink and socialize and I guess talk about you know the events of the day I swear to God the whole town. That whole bar was smashed. I mean moving and drunk and I and then we went to a nightclub and everyone there was drunk like you never saw. Oh not even when I grew up in Texas that some of the songs and I'm thinking God. These people are running the country Jesus but it was so noticeable that that the press corps everyone was just drunk whether they are now. I don't know but that was my first impression of Washington has four just smashed. Anyway we got it in the White House citizens band I did. I read that you are the voice of Stella Star in Star Crash. That is a total rumor. I I've never even seen seen that movie. I've never been hired to reduce someone's boys ever. I don't know where that came from but it's on the Internet. Well it's gotTa that'd be true then yes but I you know I will deny it forever. I don't know her. I never did it her voice. I never adopter ever. What was it like for you working with David Lynch? When you're on twin peaks that was quite the treat I I just remember. I had that character and it was. I played this Y. Who's kind of at the end of a rope with her husband? My husband's the sheriff. And I just I have a litany of complaints about mold and water overflowing dog shit everywhere and and how how you know cars. Don't work and you know I just come in. And just give him a big Riemann out and so we were on in in Washington state anyway. So I'm all in costume and I come barreling into that room and the door slams you now I just fling the door open and I les into Guy Who's playing my husband and I do all the dialogue and then I look over and this was just a rehearsal and I look over. And there's it was a real small offense and David Lynch sitting in the corner with a with with a megaphone like a red and white oh battery operated megaphone as only like three feet away way. I started laughing so hard. I'd never seen that in my life. I was like who does that Yeah it was like a twelve by ten room tiny with a megaphone action. You know like what what the heck is funny. So that was a good quirky little thing that I discovered about David Lynch and then I got used you know. Oh well then we did another thing and at that point you know the novelty has worn off and yeah hey says action and cut through the megaphone but yeah a little quirk that I like. What are you working on these days? criminal minds and. Let's see what am my working on. Nothing at the time I work in my garden. I do a lot of hot. Rod Shows Personal appearances at hot rod shows. And you just never know with acting you know when something will come up you know but meanwhile you know you just leave your life you've been doing that The one character on criminal minds for a Lotta years I know was A lot of fun and unfortunately it's over the the As you know it's its its final years. And I'm so bummed because I really wanted to come back have more conflict with my daughter who's just doesn't understand me resentful eventful. Figure it out if only she was just calm down and just let live and let live a little bit. You Know God. That was really a lot of fun. Really appreciated those people bringing back. We'll Miss Clark. Thank you so much for your time. This has been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank thank you I really appreciate you calling and I hope it works out and Org I'm I'm very curious how you came to write about the man who fell to Earth. was that the canal connection. Yes the book was actually more years in the making than you might realize when Rebecca and I were working on the the Donald cammell biography men. My was went to California a foreign to meet David at one point David Camel and we were talking about I actually. I was interested in a hearing about his career and he made it off in common about the man who failed earth or maybe I asked him about it because I remember his name being on it a- and he made it off comment you ought to write about it and so that was many years ago and there was a a book series out Dan Dan Call Culpa Griffey's on cult films so I'd actually contacted the editors of that and ask. They would be interested in they were. They said were several years behind. You know. We'll get to it when we can get to it. And so I I didn't really pursue it and I remember that at one point. David wrote me an email and ask me. How's that going? I said well I really haven't started it because I haven't been contacted. By the editors I don't think they blew me off or anything I think it was just a backlogged and they had all kinds of titles coming out so I did. I really didn't think about it much. And then what happened with with the man who fell to Earth was that I saw that that that Arrow aero video the with whom I worked on the Donald Cammell film in a wider the eye to provide the audio commentary was doing a book series so I approached Francesco seamy Oni at Arrow and said. Well I bought title might be interested in and so he wrote back mask me about it gave me you know broad ideas. Here's what we're looking for lengths and all of that stuff so that's when I came back and I said well I'd love to do if if you if you're interested. I love to do the man who fell earth and so that's how that all came about so it was a long just station period and went in it knock. I said I'm not gonNA say it went from one publishing another was just. I didn't seem to be going anywhere. That is the previous idea. And I thought I'd love David I love to write this book. David has a lot of information formation about the production and so that's how I approached Fran at Arrow books and said are you asking. Are you interested. And he said yes. And that's what that started. I'm curious how you decided. What aspects to cover? Because I noticed that you cover a lot of that production was at because David was such a wealth information. He was a wealth of information and he had met Walter Davis and had long discussions with him about the of novel He was there during the entire production. And as you know from reading the book it was David who really started the project act. Who wanted to make the movie in the first place? So yes I mean that's There was a lot I felt that. That Data David had a lot to offer. The people didn't know about right a lot of information that people didn't know about it's a strange he's listed as what miscellaneous crew. Yeah there's a little I'm fine little fine little credit. You know tightening in a line in the opening credits. You know thanking the the the participation in assistance of David Campbell and that was all contractual because when the thing started and I talk about this in the book when the the whole man who who beller project started David was actually going to be indeed the producer and when neck road joined Due to a number of complicated negotiations nations that I go in to in the book David was essentially told. You can't produce it. It has to be it's going to be you know British British British lion and You know subsequently he was reduced to this miniscule little role although he says that actually actually I can. I contributed a lot to that film Little bits and pieces throughout so but yeah I mean it's one of those film business things right in terms of how these contracts are signed in negotiating and that. So that's how he was relegated to that little miniscule opening you know credit were you fan of the movie before he started writing about it. I was when I first saw it and I thought it was intriguing and mysterious. It was unusual and I actually one of my courses many years ago I actually taught both the novel in home and I went through a period where I didn't think about it very much and Intel again. It sort of came back when David and I started talking about it all that came back in my interest in it. Yeah I think being away from it Mike Mike For A for a few years Allowed me to approach in a in a way a new way right what I tried to do when I wrote the book was just to approach it as if I knew nothing about it. Yes I did of course but I mean I was trying to you know avoid neglect neglect everything that I had originally thought my original perceptions on seeing it in the theater and just to try to write about it without any preconceptions views about what I wanted to do with it. So that's how that came about so yeah that's a good question. I I do feel that I left. I left it for a while. I didn't watch the film for a long time. I haven't seen it for years and and I felt that was good. I felt that that that was a good thing. Because it allowed me to renew my relationship to it putting that aside a little bit as far as trying to forget the movie when you're looking at it how was it comparing what you are seeing at your age now versus when it first came out at film was forty three years ago now so when I wrote this I was you know it was forty one years earlier. Era The book of his forty one years earlier and so I was that much younger longer. It's changed it changed For me that's not unusual but it there were things is that I felt interested me more about things that interested me lasse. So did I change my. Did I change my attitude towards the film yeah. I don't know if that comes through in the book or not but yeah it was a reevaluation anyway. Sh into the films for me and I wanted to be that way. I wanted to try to ride about it as if I were re evaluating it and I also watched it with Rebecca who had never. We're seeing it in and that was fun for me. Because she was an you know. We wrote the camel book together biography together and so she had never seen it so so it was interesting to just watch it with someone who literally was screening the film for the first time. What was her takeaways? Because it's such a rich tapestry. Yeah I think that she was very engaged in the film for but say two thirds towards the way and then the last third. I think that her interest began to wane. I think it became a little more disjointed the the lot of ellipses gaps and in the narrative and we attended disorder. And I wrote about that in the book not prompted by her comment but I felt that there was a kind of deliberate alien nation happening Uh in our on our relationship with Thomas Jerome Newton and that Alienated Factor Good Dardanelle Alien Nation nations. They used to call it and so I think that she experienced that the because towards the end of the film that lasts third. Yeah her her her their relationship her perception of the film change and that was very instructive for me to have someone who knew of the film. I mean it's it's at least it's titled It is famous but who had never seen so that helped me rethink a lot of things. What were some of the most surprising things that you found out when you're doing your investigation? The extent to which David Campbell's original idea conception of the film was so drastically different from Paul Maier's Berg the screenwriter and Nick Rowe because it was David who brought in Paul Maier's Berg he knew him and he he Paul was according to David was enthusiastic about it and they had kind the similar wavelength. They were thinking about the film in a very what the film might be. The adaptation might be a very similar way that began to change. As soon as Nick Road road came on board and so the direction of the film the conception of the film alter and so you can see a little bit perhaps of the original idea now and then but the fact that it became a different film than it was originally conceived to be was the biggest revelation for me. David camel approached in Walter. Walter Travis with the idea that it would be a kind of grand mystery that we wouldn't know much about up. Thomas Jerome Newton that he would remain a mystery mysterious. Is He truly a Martian is he. The insane is he a mad genius and he wanted in that kind of tradition. A kind of mystery of a great man who you may be mad the fact that he claims that he's an alien miss sort of preposterous and so on. So I think that the the for instance I can give you an example. One of the biggest differences between original conception in the in the realized film are the scenes shot. I'm using Mars because I think that's the only logical place he comes from okay And I talk about that in the book. And although tavist doesn't say Mars but it clearly the all the textual evidence is book. He's he's he's referring these using Mars. Is that David in David's mine. There should be no scenes. No nothing at all in the movie revealing Thomas Drome on his home planet so we have those scenes where we see this desert. Ride this this this planet. That's now a desert and we see Newton with his family family and his children and that was a departure that was a huge change from their original conception. Because in David's mind there should never be it. All it should always have remains a mystery that of a puzzle whether Newton was it was crazy. you know a crackpot whatever or or somehow just human. Who has this delusion something like that that? So those things in his mind never existed. They never would've been part of the film and I don't know you take bets. It's a something thing I thought about. What would that be if you remove all of that right? Remove all of those scenes. Just cut them out just if it were possible to take the existing movie movie right and go through and just chop those pieces out of Newton on his home planet and see how it plight you know and so. That's that's one of the things that I thought was intriguing in one of the things that was altered about the film now in defense. Of course I that in the novel Newton does talk about his planner and He he does talk about home and it's had I mean the monopoly Merton the novel emerged out of the fifties that great fear of nuclear war and so there has been a nuclear war war nuclear devastation on Newton's home planet. So you know in defense that materials there but the way that David pitched two tablets was that he would do it as a kind of grand mystery story. So it's not that at all as it. I mean it's nothing to do about Newton's Hi de entity at all I mean we just allow the fact you know. It's a given that he's an alien. I'm really glad that you went into the backstory of who Walter Tavist says in a little bit more about his life into the novel was famous. The movie was famous and I I wanted people to know more about who was in. How how the book in some respect reflected aspects of his own life? I've found as as you know from from the book I found that Great Book A kind of biography written by his Jamie Tabas who was his first wife. WHO talks about how? What a sickly child he was I elements of that are in Thomas Newton? How tall and thin gangly? He was He felt he felt awkward. You Know He. He was named by his as he when he was a schoolteacher. Sure when he was in English teacher you know students called him. Make Abbad Crane That was invaluable and an. I felt that no-one on wall understanding there was a novel out. There really didn't know much about its author in how the author's own biography impacted what that novel became. You know is and I. I really thought that was important. Aspect of the book because no one had Britain about that before. I mean everybody knew Waller Texas. Everybody knew he'd written other books he was famous for the Hustler ride and which became the the the highly regarded film With Paul Newman Releasing sixty one people knew that aspect of tavist study. Was this this author. But I don't think they realize had ever realized how much of that novel grew Devos's own experienced so her book was it was just a really fascinating you know and I felt that was important. Understand to en- like I said my initial approach going showing at the Shell to go at the film to write about. It was to try to come at it in a way that I hadn't before in one of the things that I thought was important to to go the took to approach the film was understand. More about the novel's author and the novel itself and then go back and look at the film again as glad that you brought up the idea of them. Changing the dates a few times in the novel revise. Et tempus himself. Did that and I don't. I never understood quite why he did that. Because went through printings you know there was the original first edition in sixty three and then there was a second edition in One thousand nine hundred seventy which is the the version of the press pressing if you will the publication of the novel the David Gemmell found and then there was the addition that was published when the movie came out the kind of movie tie in as they used to call it most days when they reissued it in all of those had they were his original dates and then after the movie came out some years the next edition which was by Bantam which was eighty two. He had altered the dates in cut a little bit material out. And I I don't know why ever did that. I thought legal listenable the book for you know just as you wrote it so yeah I thought people would find that interesting too that he he had Altered the book because the book became sort of you know I don't know about how to say it. Maybe not a best seller but the novel sort of took off after after the film and so maybe felt that he would try to contemporary. Is it by changing the dates or whatever. Where in the project did David Campbell? Kind of lose control. What did you say it was when British line took over the production I think so because at that point he was told that they they were going to going to make make the movie but he wasn't going to produce it and you know he said that was a huge blow because does he spent years developing and my guess I mean? I don't know precisely what year he optioned the novel but but I mean because he himself was one option. I mean it wasn't British line. It wasn't any other company. David himself option the novel Based on the pitch he gave Abbas didn't tavist would allow him to make it so he was able to option. Because Tab is light is idea so David had it for. Let's just say seventy two you because you know. There was a a company a television company in Britain The name escapes me at the moment. who was interested in turning turning it into a TV series which is a really interesting idea? I mean what. What if the man who were the WHO had become a TV show that radio him on a weekly series right with the the continuing adventures of Thomas Jerome but that never happened at interesting idea that never happens and so as soon as the company led the Knob of the novel goal he snapped it up? So let's say that seventy two somewhere in there and and so he had been developing this thing for a number of years and so the fact that he was removed right from producer Sir was was hit. He said Yeah. That was a loot huge blow. Because I'd spent so much time in so much money on in you know getting it made and he said you know Paul Maier's Berg who I'd approach to write the screenplay was doing his favor. He was writing it as a favor to me in other other words that he wasn't doing it I didn't have to pay him. He so believed in it that he was doing it on his. You know on his own because he's so much wanted the movie to be made so I'm going to say in David says it's essentially. He lost control after Nick. Robe agreed to make it and that was very quickly very soon after Negro agreed. He became his movie. Even though Paul Maier's Berg had been working on it for quite like some time he in mayors Bergen Nick Rogue went off in essentially wrote their version. And that's what they went with those early versions by mayors Harrisburg like that when he was writing for camel never seen them. I wish I had read some I could never get. I don't know whether David himself it has any. I could never get a a version. I did come across some years ago. I did come across. A script of the man who fell to Earth and facts was interesting because after we had prepared to to to talk tonight I went looking for it and I couldn't find it but a version of that script but it's interesting because the music was totally different for instance at the opening of the film. You know they're playing you. You know rocket man by John You know that's when we see the capsule's splashdown You know in that Mountain Lake and you know that the whole sequence where we're up in you know the NASA footage of the of the three-stage rocket you know the stages dropping off is at inner space a S- in that that some of that material we have now in the opening credits but over that would have been in one draft of it was rocket. Man I can tell you that much other parts of that script is I recall at a nice shirt. Certainly wish I had it in front of me and I can't find it Other parts of that script read pretty much not exactly but pretty closely to what we have now right. Not every part of it but parts of it read pretty closely and so I'm going to guess that if production started right in in early the June of nineteen seventy-five than that was the version that was sometime after Rogue came aboard which was early seventy five. Let's say February in April somewhere in there I think it was a version right in that in that range and it was moving in the direction of the film. We see now so that's the earliest version I've seen but I haven't seen anyone version earlier that now. I can't imagine that it was written in that fractured lead story style. No couldn't have been those kinds of changes right or that approach happened in the editing room. Yeah it it it had to Worry at became. I mean I I described Nick Rogue in the book is you know. A kind of one of the premier premier modernist cinema by that I mean it became that elliptic goal narrative of Out of sequence flashbacks partial flashbacks in other words only fragments of a flashback. Partial out of out of sequence flashbacks axe. That whole thing. I believe happened in the editing room which was You know somewhere. After September of seventy I five and and prior to the premiere because it was in the editing room for several months and you know of course that it was going to be distributed by paramount the then head of paramount. Who saw right they who saw Nick grow the cut right. The Negro had prepared that's when paramount essentially backed out and said we don't want it anymore and and so it went through this. You know we're going to sue you. It's all you know. This is all legal now. And we're going to. You're the YOU'RE GONNA regret this and so on. It was Berry Diller who was then head of paramount paramount had released nick robes. Don't now which had done very well. So they were interested in working with him again. So paramount had had agreed to to to do essentially pay offset introduction costs if they got American distribution rights. And so when Michael Dealy who was you know the producer screened it for Barry diller in New York robes rough cut in New York and dillard become chairman of paramount in nineteen seventy seventy four. That is after. Don't look now but prior to don't you know the man who felt errors and Berry dealer screened it and Said said absolutely no way. Are we going to release this movie. We ask for linear film. This is not the movie movie. That paramount bought the picture. We bought as linear. And this isn't was what Michael Daly said. Andy Lee he said Wall is only a rough caught without any Polish or without any music. There's no posts sink or sound effects and Berry diller according to him I'm was unmoved and diller said. Forget it we're forget were out of this deal and so that put them in a bad way. Ride that as you know. Michael deleon very spicy things right. I mean that they were now in trouble and so that's one. They went to cinema in. I know cinema five right. Donald Ru Goff's New York based cinema five. which is the the the distribution company that released it in the united that states and he agreed to give them model? I don't remember the figure I think he gave them. Between eight hundred nine hundred thousand dollars for the North north-american North American rights to the film. deely said that helped us a lot. I mean the the fact that he agreed to take it and to give us is that amount helped us mentally but the point is that that after that screening that disastrous screening in New York were diller said no way no how the man who fell earth was now understood in. The industry considered in the industry is as a damage damage goods right. There's something wrong with this movie. We're not touching it with a ten foot pole so the fact that cinema five that's liked offbeat On usual European import films picked it up. Help them but no Hollywood. You Know Studio was GonNa pick that film up No way no how right. So that is it is a result right of of Nick Robes decision to due to make it a what do you WanNa say a modernist. You know our house film and I don't I don't necessarily say that pejoratively but I mean that was his decision to cut it that way and and turn it into that. That kind hips disjointed highly elliptical narrative. I looked up what David Bowie said the movie. I don't think he especially liked it. I mean if you look at interviews with him when he talks about it he says he says I don't know I I don't I don't find that the the the the film is there's nothing warm about it the scene the intimate scenes. Were you know With Mary Lou. The sex scenes were strange and odd. He he found the film. Sort of interesting. I mean. He just didn't he didn't eat himself. Didn't really care for it now. He didn't say that at the time I mean he you know he so he did his duty to promote the movie but personally years later and of course I don't mean two or three years I mean this is twenty years later right or he admitted that he. I didn't care for the film very much. But then he revisited the film in its own work which I found interesting yes. One of his last works with Lazarus Right which which premiered shortly before his death. And you know Nick Rowe had made a statement I think which was interesting about the man who felt earthy said imagine the movie. Imagine them out. Man Fell to Earth as all all the The hallucination of a of a dying industrial magnate all in his head. It's all a fantasy and it's it's almost like Bowie. Took that idea with Lazarus right and said Okay and in an sort of staged at around the idea that Thomas Jerome Newton was in this confined aimed at a misanthrope confined. If you will like a like a Howard or Jews misanthrope right in this room look reliving his life and with elements that come out of the man who fell to her earth so yeah that is interesting. He returned to that. I mean I did that is but maybe he's trying to rethink the movie itself. Haussa fight a little ironic. That one of Bowie's in my opinion best roles was when he was Nikola Tesla. And I can see Tesla almost falling from the heavens at some point yeah prestige. Yes he was. He was very good at that movie. I can't imagine rogue working with rip torn because towards personality was another oversized oversized one. I don't know if it's very spiting might have been who brought both rip torn and Buck Henry into it. In other words that was part of the producers deal that they represented them or they were clients or some connection. So That's how both canyon and and rip torn he got involved in. The first place was not Negro but that Kinda came with the producers that came with them that they were part of the deal. And that point is you know Negro was involved with Romantically involved with Candy Clark and that sort of how she came in the movie. Yeah I did find and noted in the book that he and Candy Clark absolutely detested one. Another I don't know whether that whether the affected what finally is on the screaming but he during the production from what I gather you know he had his own Coterie And he kept himself with them and the it was minimal contact between him and candy. Clark and mm-hmm how Nick Robes your did there. I don't know but their relationship was not a good one during the filming you can see photos from the together and everything looks great but but it wasn't rip torn that raises an interesting question. I think Buck Henry raises an interesting question. It's kind of an odd casting. It it you know you wonder who might have been a better choice. And I don't know I I don't know who might have been. I'd never thought about the movie that way. If you don't have rip torn who would be if you don't have buck Henry who would be but let's say that you replace one or the other. You have a totally different movie. So that's how they they got involved in. It is Rather A. It's not a big cast by need citizen. The only character I mean there is no I mean there is the the equivalent of a Buck Henry. The lawyer right is as lawyer. There is a character that is is rip torn in fact he's the one correct who suspects that there's something odd or strange about Thomas Jerome Newton and he becomes as it were the kind of Judas figure they are in the novel and I think that their roles rules are approximate. What we see in the film now We don't have a sequence equivalent to where the buck Henry character is thrown out the window for instance There's nothing like that what we have we have seen somewhat like the scene when Rip Torn takes the takes the X Ray photograph of Thomas Drum Newton which reveals his identity. Right which where he sees that strange lack of internal structure. There is a scene like that in the novel title but You know again I think that one of the things that was changed from the novel and an Eh from the novel in his in the the film is that kind of nebulous vague corporate presence. There's the character earlier earlier in the film. This is America Corporate America and we tend to keep we intend to keep it that way. So there you have it. Strange Figur- you're on the hill at the beginning when Newton I lands and he's kind of is trying to climb down that that that Slag tape near the you know the the old coal mine at the beginning and you see that figured simply called the watcher in any literature attorney. Any anything I've ever read about the film that's in addition for instance But the idea's there in other words that there was a sense at some point point the C. I. A. and the American Government learned about Thomas Drome Newton's landing. So I think that did they sort of concretize. I mean made an actual character. The one the watcher who appears watching Boise because he stumbles and slides down that slag heap at the beginning of the movie. And then we see him later staring at Bowie asleep right when he's confined in that apartment building right that that decrepit apartment building at the end and he now has a beard. And he's simply staring at the sleeping Bowie figure. Sure so I think they added him just to liberalise to make actual that idea that somehow the moment that Thomas Jerome Newton landed he he was known about that the CIA. The American government had known about it. So yeah that that paranoid aspect of it is there but I guess as they had sort of actualize that in some way or another. What were your biggest challenge? Just putting this together I wanted to write about it in a fresh new way. I remember getting comments from people colleagues and others people. I know comments through facebook comments on email to the effect and it was. It was a challenge. I took it as a challenge but the comments essentially were. What else is there to say about it? And we'll have all a book that could have been done. Why this one I mean? What else do we want to know what do you what do you think you can add? Well you know. I've told you think I could add. Ah Information about the author. I think I get added information about how the project started with David Campbell the competing visions of what the film should should be. I don't think that's been published. I don't think any of that's been published so but I took that as a challenge in other words it didn't offend me as like okay. I'll show you what I think we need need to know right. The book is a book about. What don't we know about the movie so mile operating procedure throughout how was Detroit to explore the movie talking about things we don't know or haven't considered before so that was that was? The biggest challenge is just is to convince people that another book should be written about the man who felt earth on the other hand. I don't know that there's been that many. But apparently they're they're commentary and eyesight some of them in my bibliography. Of course there's others on it but they're nothing like mine and they're more about Bowie and more about this and that than the actual production The actual day to day production the actual individuals were involved in all of that I think To my knowledge in my research had been had been talked about before I didn't approach it as autour film. I'm an okay. This is another yet. Another a tourist film made eight my neck rogue. I didn't want to do that. I didn't think that was particularly informative. And and yeah I mean you start exploring. What do we know about the film it? They're actually you're right. There isn't that much and I mean there's some out there but a lot of it surrounds Bowie in his mythology allergy and Tourist criticism about front based on rag is an autour that kind of thing but I mean the actual sort of specifics fix production development production and so on. I just didn't think there was enough out there and and so I think in that way I find a contribution to our understanding. You know I'd like to Dan. There are many other films out there one would love to write That probably need you in my opinion the kind of research that I I did on the man who shelter earth and has done very well I might say it's is done I know that. There's an Alamo draft house in Omaha where they have copies continually available when they continually sell. They continue replaced. I I mean that's a small index. That's a small indicator but you know it seems to me to be doing pretty well because I think people are interested in the movie and they wanna a they want to know more about it in in ways. That aren't just simply more Bowie. You're more more row but but other kinds of approaches and other other kinds of questions. I'm happy to say it's done pretty well so I think I've answered the question the question. Why another book or why this book I think because does it answered the kind of questions people had about the movie early cycle? So that's why selling well what's next. What are you working on now? Rebecca I are are working working on a Another book together. It's a change. You might be surprised with what we wanted to do was called nuances of feeling and it's about sentiment in cinema and sentiment and so what we're trying to explore are what I would recall what are perceived to be conventional films that have an element of strangeness. An ominous to them so for instance a film that we are very much intrigued by is now voyager. The bette Davis film From may aid virtually at the same time back to back overlapping with Casablanca in nineteen forty. Two and that movie is very very strange. I think it's a I showed it this semester to my students and they loved it they absolutely loved it and they never heard of it but I tried to approach it. As if I'm glad you you know good. I'm glad you loved it. It's a great film but there's so much we can't account for in it. There's so much strangeness snus In it there are so many things that give it a kind of quality that let's say classic Hollywood films don't have and actually let me digress a second. I think that's part of what always attracted me about. The man who fell earth is trying to account for its strangeness. And so I guess I'm I I guess I'm drawn to films like that where there seems to be something about them. You can't quite identify but what you need to which you want to because it's like an itch like how does this thing work. Why is that stuff there? And so that's what we're working on. And this is a major thing a major project in its. We've been working being on now a long time and it's coming together but it's very difficult but that's a model film and it's coming out in a criterion a couple of weeks. Finally they went out of print. You know it's interesting. I'll tell you an interesting anecdote when people always discovered that I teach film film history. Straighten film genre on Blah Blah Blah. One of the questions. I've I've I've been asked over and over and over is oh well do you teach now voyager and so I think there's a huge cultural interest in that movie which criterion I guess finally realized. Those are the kinds of films that were were seeking thing to talk about. And that's what we're doing right now. So yeah it's a big change from a film like The man who seller but I've learned so much and of course we we've written together before in that's always a good thing for for both of us. The the usual joke from people when they were working on a new book together How's it going in? You know our our stock schick responses that we're we're not divorced yet but yeah we we like working together and we bring in different things to the project. So that's what we're working on. That's a long answer so it's a change you know. It's a change from what I've I normally have been. I'm doing you know in terms. I mean I I have an article I'm working on. That's going to be published in a book on the continuing influence of fifty science science fiction. And I'm working on that individually Becky's working on a project on British novels and and That's her own independent project so we were on individual things. But that's the one that that's the book project were both working on. Well Sam thank you so much for your time. Climate is always a pleasure talking with you. Oh likewise well. I don't know we always seem to have a good time. Don't we Uh I'm very curious how you got into in writing. Oh always wrote. I wrote from the age of eight so I had to kind of you know sort of vaguely traumatic childhood. Do some good recipe for an author. So yeah so just started writing and all through high school college everything from what I understand. You did a zing back in the day I sure did I did defensing in in Los Angeles in nineteen seventy seven that was really pretty. UK Guy No UK central. I look at copies online now. And they sell for way more than I've ever made out of my book That's okay we were doing like Xerox and glue stick or exactly Xerox and Yeah on little ransom. Note letter styles and all that Really just sort of interviewed damned blondie all kinds of things and then got bored with it. Early on on and SORTA stopped midsummer. Seventy seven so ephemeral. But that's kind of how my attention span wins however you connected with music scene I. It's just always loved it. I mean to having been a Bowie fan and then transition in London in seventy seven. When punk was well it was breaking broken for for most English people when we were first becoming aware of it and So just forgot all about Bowie and went onto the punk thing with passion and pretty much every other cult that followed I did. I went along with that so but music music. Writing was the first kind of well. I suppose the first writing I did for for money when I was little I was writing any thing about Surfing Ping or other things that I did but from what I understand he wrote for like Mo Jo and span and some of the other met music magazines. Yeah that was a great thing and then also. I got not really interested in English soccer and I wrote about for some soccer magazines in England and a little bit here as well. So that's a kind of strange transition. But that's what I did. When did you switch? It's too Reading books. Let's see I wrote my first book when I was in Grad school at USC so in in the eighties I was yeah was doing still both both things. Music writing and writing A novel or Novella and short stories and in fact that the novella short stories is going to be. Reissued hasn't e-book early in the New Year so it was kind of strange to see that. Come around yeah a Lotta Lotta Bowie in it and a lot of punk and all that stuff. It's nice to have a second life of some sort I guess. And how did you transition and start writing about wore notes. Yeah it's a good question. I get that a lot I think I'll probably alienated a lot of my war notes of fans by writing about Bowie but there you go I was wanting to do a book I was wanting to do a nonfiction books because fiction was so uncertain a friend said. Why don't you write a book about your favorite actor and I thought okay my favorite actors? Warren oates without must be a book about war notes. That I don't know of that amazingly there wasn't so there I jumped in and did it. And what a wild ride I had so it was so much fun book received when it came out. Yeah well will. It got really good reviews and that was so rewarding because I really got so lost in it it took me four years and actually what I turned in was like two hundred pages which is longer than what eventually came out and I'm really got carried away with so much indepth things it. Yeah it's been it's been very consistent and nice and I. I loved working key with the university. Press of Kentucky on it. They were a great home and continue to be. You said that you've written about Bowie since the mid seventies so I'm curious the how did you decide that you're going to just focus on the man who fell to Earth period. I was out with some friends in Santa Fe trying to find something to follow up word oath. Oh it's with which was really proving difficult because it was just so rewarding and so much fun that I thought well what can I do next. And nothing was appealing to be and A writer about writer friends suggested what about us. You know favorite Biography of a movie type book and I thought Okay and then Amanda fell to Earth came to mind eventually. When I'd gone through other films I thought I might write about an authentic that that would be very cool and it was it was it is yeah big Fan of the movie before you started writing? Think about Oh definitely seen it probably already about sixteen times because well. Yeah I know. I know I'm going into almost thirty. It's really yeah but And a bunch of probably up there to see both so many times down. The man who fell to Earth is not necessarily the easiest movie to get into. And I'm curious. What was your initial impression impression of it when you saw it all those years ago it was so much better than we then I thought and it was very quite dreamy and we love the depiction of Bowie is sort of other? Well it it was otherworldly. But that was that was great At gone to premiere in We'll premier with no one there in Westwood are screening. It was in Westwood and on the big screen to see you know my hero was something terrific so and I i. I liked the film. I thought he would definitely I did. I'm not sure that I realized that was New Mexico when I thought the first time but I think that adds so much to the the look of it especially considering that when the book was written it was setting in Kentucky Coming Back Kentucky but it would not have been the same film. I don't think with the Kentucky Landscape you talk to. I don't know how many people writing this book. I was just floored by your footnotes. Just all of the interviews that you did for this and I've got to ask. How long did it take to put the book together? We'll actually compared to warn for years Just a couple to two or three years so not two and a half. Maybe I just really got my head down and got on with it so I didn't didn't take as long as all that. Just the Presley patrol those people down it. Will you know who I never tracked down. Still haunts me to this day is the girl who played the daughter her that helium daughter and she was a Hollywood actor. Kid and it's impossible to find her and peop-. Nobody remembers her name anything. It just drives me crazy other than that. I found pretty much everybody. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. I mean you're talking to the costume designers. The makeup people everybody behind the scenes scenes and so many people in front of the camera. I was just amazed by the depth of research that you did thank you. That's my thing I just get so into it that I almost go. Oh baby too far into it. But I love the dimension that the extras and like the key the casting agent into Mexico the younger guy. it was so much fun to get their take on things because a lot of people had told their stories many times before the the people of the line and It was fun to get people who were right. They're seeing it from a totally different perspective. And you know watching David Bowie. Go fishing and crazy things like that. You know it was just charming. Yeah what what's your approach to. Just go out and just start finding interviews or do you go into the archives and start looking through like the local New Mexico papers or what is your way to did. I use the paper in the newspapers. A lot and archives if I can and then generally if I if you find one name with any luck you can kind of find some more. So but that's about a lot of time spent in New Mexico kind of nosing around and always always librarians and people from the historical societies are just invaluable. What what were some of the most surprising things for you to uncover because I know that you're a fan of this film? To begin with how Bowie was really for anything how he did not play the superstar role at all. It was willing to you know even with damage to his. I wear these contact lenses for that. Created the cats. Is You know for the alien that were really quite painful. And he was not a pre Madonna at all. He was willing to do anything that he was asked to do. And I thought that was pretty impressive. What was the relationship like between him and Nick Roque? I think I think it was respectful but I always felt that he was being kept out of the loop at times for Getting scripts and so on because I think rogue wants wanted to keep them off balance to keep you know the character more Estranged that was not sitting so well with with with Bowie Bowie but overall I don't think there were any stocks or any big fights or anything like that so although I don't know how close they remained after the film I think was was initially stressed out from the The the doing the role and written a song word on the word on the wing. That's on station to station about traumatized. He was to have made the film so he didn't really do a lot to promote. Of course it was not all that well received when it came out but he was not behind it he was already onto the next thing so oh a little disgruntled. That he didn't get to do the soundtrack which there's a variety of theories as to why that didn't happen but in a way I think it'd probably was for the best. Well Yeah it's feels like a real. He said he said kind of thing. When it comes to then I'm curious? What your take is on that whole situation? I think they're three the things that may be that Bowie got bored. Doing the soundtracks are that Nicaragua's not happy with what go ahead given him. If there was anything in fact or leslie that was offered less money than than he was promised and he was just miffed about at all so. I think that might have been something that would make you stop creating. And maybe he just wasn't really behind it to begin with. I'm not sure but I have a feeling money. Money would always be a thing as Bowie. Fan Dan when you went to see it for the first time. Were you upset or said that there was no boy music in it. No I think it was a good thing. I think I agree with Nick Rogue about that that it would have taken in You in wrong direction. To have his music would have made you know Bowie Singer and star and I know there were some songs initially included in one of the versions of the screenplay Palmeiras burks versions. But I think that was just to make it more saleable when they had rocket Nan and changes space oddity in there but I was I think Graeme Clifford Toby Elvis Standard Practice to get a script filmed in those days. Maybe even still today. I was very surprised when Graeme Clifford was talking about using pink floyd as a temporary score. That would be strange. Wouldn't it I mean he was still really firmly behind that but I I don't know myself I I think I think with John Phillips put together in a really ridiculously short period of time is pretty darn good. I can almost hear and no pun intended. I can almost hear. Echoes of pink. Floyd Loyd through some of some parts of that I agree I agree. And that's probably his. His remit was probably told that we need something like this and the still move. You must've stuff quite beautiful. pull its yeah I no soundtrack came out but I think they're. The pilot was disappointed in hell. How it how? It was released a couple of years go year ago two years ago New Mexico was kind of a rough and tumble area. At that point. I've heard stories of Dennis Hopper and his is commune for lack of a better term in towse and just how wild it was. Did they have any sort of issues with filming there from the local us. I mean that's one of my interviewees in Majid said that Some of the locals were a little unhappy because maybe they had a little sideline growing something. That was still illegal and no longer legal in California that still illegal in New Mexico and they didn't want to have any of that appear on film. I think there was a little some tension in a bar would between Bowie was out with Martin. Samuel his who did the fact that wonderful hair for that. I think there is a little. Yeah seen in the bar where it got a little testy and I always liked that bowie refers to border bar but they never really got that close to Mexico. All I can think of is maybe they were close to Texas so which could be could be a border of another kind. Strategic The furthest South they've gone and that's that's a tough town so where he would have they would have more certainly stood out well really anywhere they went including Santa Fe and Albuquerque. Yeah I mean I think people I know one of my interviewees said we didn't people like that. We didn't see people like Bowie or even in particular. Angie when Angie Bowie rolled into talented thought they had never seen anything like that so I was really glad that you you covered having Angie and to pronounce it Zoe Zoe so e okay but we but I've heard all kinds of all kinds kinds of pronunciations and of course now it's easy to say Dunkin so I think she's often given short shrift because she's probably not easiest person but then neither was he so I think it's it's deserved that she gets her day. He would not have had the same style or ideas at all without her. And I'm trying to remember the name of the other woman who ooh slashes mother. I can't remember. Yeah on the Hudson. Those beautiful suits. Yeah Yeah that that is true she. She contributed a lot to the his look is more tailored look in in the film that it also breaks my heart to think of all those clothes were donated to the Salvation Army in Albuquerque. Not when they left they wanted maybe not the older Hudson close but all the rest of the things that they had put together. That may routed brought in they just got rid of so. What a field day if you were into thrift? The store that day any any any number of things I'd love to have. I'm really glad that you gave the history of the FIDORA's. Oh yeah that's yeah that's it's fun. It's hard to. Yeah that's an amazing story to see What actually happened lower? They all ended up onto. Obviously there are more than one but that moby had one loss did did and so on and so forth. It's pretty incredible. How was rip torn at this time? Well I know like to go fishing. I know that he was drinking gene heavily but he was not alone in that or any other kind of substances that might of been floating around I think he was not the real to be in the film but he was happy to be working and he had friends there so he you know he was fine. I don't know that he bowie were best buddies but they worked worked. Okay together. I mean that's terrific and I think I know I know he was at one point very concerned about filming a love scene well several but are a couple and He didn't WANNA look out of shape with these young coeds and so he's trying very hard to get fit like in a couple of days and obviously that it doesn't quite work so funny I've Read Different Accounts About how Candy Clark along with Bowie. It seems like from reading in your book it seems like they got along well and then I read other accounts where they didn't get along. Well what's your take on that. From people have told me he really felt that she overacted overacted or stepped on his lines a lot and then I in other ways I mean I never. He never said anything against her or the or really much of anything at all. I know he thought her best acting was done in that. That ad libbed Scene where they're in the LIMO and the train goes bar. Yeah their away. They're stopped at the the level crossing the train goes by and she kind of goes into a thing about what the trains used to be like when she was young and he really complemented that. I don't know without outlet. I mean it's it's hard to say I mean it's rumored that maybe they had a dalliance but I know she's denied that and not many people would deny David Bowie so then she was also going with broke at the same time. I believe true true but Angie had kind of intimated that who knows what was going on during their script meetings back in their house onto heaney Dr who were the most challenging people to get in touch with rogue's held Nicaragua. Health was not so good. Although they were he was very wife wife facilitated it so graciously Couldn't get Palmares Berg. Oh Henry sadly not just couldn't get him so yeah so that would be but everybody Eddie US was fairly easy. It's kind of like if you know one English person you know the mall. I forget who said that in my book maybe it was Howard. Rubin if you know one person and you know them all so one person and it's still kind of that way a little bit so for previous book from the previous book I had known Katie Haber and she's like the best liaison. The person could dream of his second secretary and she's still knows everybody in town so like the best thing in the world just to know her in many many ways did your opinion that the movie chain while you were doing all this research I see it so many times. Some things are creaky a little certainly. The pace by modern. Modern standards is painfully slow I still never got my head around the pingpong seen I just I can't I don't know what that point. I just WanNa make it stop. I can't count. I don't like that seeing I feel like it makes the movie way too long beyond that. No I think it's still very lyrical. And a serial and kind of has Bowie said it had to a real sense of magic and forboding about it and I think that holds true. Why do you think Bowie revisited? That with the whole Lazarus is so interesting interesting to me because he had so much material he could have chosen from but he must have strongly connected with the character. I know he once he had some distance. This is from the film. He tended to to speak really fondly of it as I say when it came out I think he distance himself a little bit because it had been cut and also because it the reviews these were not spectacular. But certainly now it's much more highly Sada's and and deservedly. So how do you think that affected his relationship with Hollywood because he would go on to be in so many other films after that it is so true I I don't know I think maybe people had seen seen him in it and see knew that he was people deliver the goods. I mean here. He was essentially a first time after definitely in a major film. Yeah I think probably one thing led to another trophy did continue. Can you to be continue to work in film right up to the end. So what's next for you kind of like a little prequel collaborating on us. Sort of pre prequel pull of to the man who fell to Earth. So I'll let that the mystery but any Bowie fan would probably say I know what that is and that's collaborating with an artist in London doing a pretty looking book. I've not that not that Earth bound is pretty. I think my publisher did a beautiful job putting it together Susan Campbell. Where's the best place for people to keep in touch with you or keep up on your work like facebook and then I I should be putting together a better site than that but will thank thank you so much for your time? This is great with so much fun talking to you. All right. We're back and we're talking about the man who fell to Earth and did you guys get a chance chance to see the TV movie. Pleased up you did. I tried and I couldn't do it of all the things that I've made Andrea Watch over the last however many years we've been together twenty. Some years she put her foot down when it came to the T. V.. She she was just like after this. I get with a remote back and you are not watching anything in this house with the next one four hours. She should have made a forty eight. Oh it is bad it is really. I don't know why they would do that. It's so I definitely person who hates remakes and I'm sure there are some exceptions exceptions and you know anytime I say I hate remakes. People always are obnoxious and say what about the thing. And what about invasion of the body. Saturday's like yeah shut. That's fine this sort of need to say okay. We have this really great film. I know instead of making another interesting film. Let's just make this one again. And this is a perfect example of how that is a horrible concept. That should just shouldn't be done. It doesn't help that. This is nineteen eighty seven when they're making this version so by that time all of these other movies and TV shows and all. This stuff have happened so now. Oh the man who fell to Earth. TV movie feels like it's a pilot for something else and it feels like it's a pilot. For almost like a star man reboot like I know there was the star Man TV series and the Star main movie. It feels a little like that. If feels a little V when he takes his contacts out and he's got the cats I kind of thing if feels a little cash ever a bunch of other things while I was watching him just like this. It seemed so similar to other things and he doesn't necessarily have the brains that Thomas Jerome Newton had. He doesn't necessarily have love. The doesn't have the looks. I mean this is the guy that played perfect Tommy in Baku Banzai and he doesn't even have the same name it goes by John Dory which I guess sounds like John Doe but not enough and man it's just really strange and then also that his big invention is the first gigabyte computer chip bad on so many levels And in this one. It's not Mary Lou. It is Eva Milton so I don't know if they're making John Milton reference there but I might be over thinking thinking this and that's Beverley D.. Ngelo and she's got a bratty son. Who is into wearing a lot of fringe on his jacket and shoplifting? Uplifting records and cassette tapes from places played by the one and only Mr will wheaton which is horrible. Like how can you make an adaptation of men who fell to Earth worse. Let's add will wheaton into the mix you got another star trek alum with Robert Cardo as the FBI agent. WHO's chasing him? And then you've got Bruce McGill as the brace character who has vernon gauge. For whatever reason they couldn't name any of the characters the same names which was just absolutely bizarre. There must be some sort of weird rights thing going on with this but yeah and then it ends on a hopeful note of him possibly rescuing his family so as it ends. I'm just like was this a TV pilot. It really feels like it was and I. I know that they're actually making a TV series or trying to. I'm not sure if it's been shot yet or if it's just in the pre production stages but Alex Kirkman is working on a TV series of the man who fell to Earth. And I'm just afraid of what that's going to be. It's horrible did either of you guys see Lazarus the David Bowie play. 'CAUSE I didn't even know that this existed until doing research for this I have not seen it. I mean it wasn't that like the the opening of it was the last time he appeared in public. I want to say I think you're right. That's something that I would love to see but haven't I would love to see it as well because it's interesting that his last project ends up going back to man who fell to Earth you know of all the things in his career. You're that he could look back on that. He ends up revise at revising and revitalizing this. Thomas Jerome Newton character. I don't remember which because I think they've had like seven different productions but I think the New York production was Michael Hall as Thomas Jerome Newton which chypre find very interesting. Because I think he's a very interesting actor and skits. I can't remember it was you that turned me onto this or not but the David Bowie is the the man who fell from Earth. Two thousand seventeen documentary. I found that really interesting. Yeah I did too I was I found it on video. Thanks for free. I kind of got the feeling that had been based on the quality of the film clips that maybe it coincided with the release of the BLU ray or something I don't own the the film on DVD. Or Blu. Ray I haven't seen the creek criterion so I don't really know what kind of extras are on them. But that this film felt like they had a lot of access to material and really high quality material and rights to a music and film clips. So I assumed sooner had something there was some kind of official promotion for for the movie coming out on Blu Ray or something. Yeah I think it's one of the extras. They're a bunch of them including the the interview that I talked about with Bowie and rogue is part of so they they included did a commentary track. But it's not like a conventional commentary it's basically interviews with different people cut together the running length of the film and some of those are Bowie and broke and presumably. They're watching the film while they're talking about live but it's not just like them for two hours to great. I love how the documentaries put together. I mean sometimes it shows if you've just watched the movie and then you watch this documentary. It it shows entire scenes thinking I just watched this but I love how it layers scenes from the movies with scenes from Bowie's music career. I don't it's it's really well put together. I thought yeah. I ended up buying this thing three times just for research for this. So you got the criterion the Anchor Bay version that was Just on DVD. Thank because there is one extra there that I couldn't find and otherwise and then the lions gate release. which is the thick box? It's a three disc set which is interesting. And they've got. I think they have more extras on their than they do. On the criterion which just seems really strange to me I feel like criterion has kind of given up a little. I would not argue with that because especially when it comes to extras. It feels like they're not porting over pre existing getting extras and they're just not making or buying or paying for new Extras Keno has recently been releasing a Mel Films on Blu Ray and I got to do some of the commentaries and I've had people writing me like why don't criteria do this like I'm not in charge of anything I don't know but it is a good point like why do I don't WanNa say less reputable bowl but why does sort of less prestigious companies seem to still be putting an effort into making extras whereas criterion. I feel like in the last asked maybe three or so years. It's like they've stopped making any new extras very frustrating and it feels like disrespectful respectful to the films and just for preservation interests. You would think that they would want to have all the things on their discs well criteria on. If you're listening you've been judged you been judged lacking all right we're gonNA take another break in play a preview for next week show. The creation of the humanoids out of the atomic war came perfect man. They humanoids man's own creation. Aw physically mentally perfect created to serve them masters men and women what could man compete with his creation. The perfect man. You love that that that machine. I love packs. He's dedicated to keeping me. Happy and I am happy. The robots quads are machines. They must be made like machines. The perfect man created needed via man becomes man's worst enemy PROC- the most provocative story of film the most unusual story ever filmed. You must see to believe that the creation of the humanoid the perfect man. That's where it will be back next week with a look at the creation of the humanoids until then I want this week's coho Salmon Skills Sam. What has been keep you busy a lot of things that I? I'm always terrible this because usually what I'm working on hasn't been announced yet so I always play this game of what. What can I say last month? Might this book that I wrote on Fritz Lang's film 'em came out And I somewhat recently lays started a new podcast called the evil eye which is all about goth movies or they're not really all Gotha movies but were making a case. So those are the two things off the top of my head. What would you consider goth movie one of the things that we're looking at our movies with like explicitly Goth characters? So you know for that to count. It's mostly things made made after nineteen eighty so like we could. We're going to definitely cover the hunger at some point but we also have been covering some do things with more sort of broadly literary gothic themes. Like we just did a bunch of vincent price episodes. And you know it's our podcast cast so we were being a little flexible with what that means. PODCASTS are step off yeah. We'll do we want. You're not the boss of this. This I hear you have some big news to share sir. Yes the film. I guess I've talked about every time I've been on this show that I've worked on since nineteen ninety nine nine ice. Pick to the moon. The documentary about Fred Lane I'm sending it off to the. DVD manufacturer any day now and we have a big DVD release party at the end of January in Birmingham Alabama. Where not only is it the DVD release? It's also the album released party for Fred lanes new album album which nobody saw coming including me otherwise I would have given the film a different name because it's the same name as the album is picked to the Mon.. Not only that but Fred Lane will be making his first publicized public appearance since nineteen seventy six. So getting ready for that uh-huh and next time I'll be able to talk about my my new film well and for folks who have been anxiously awaiting ice pick to the moon the movie to come out I will be releasing our audio commentary tracks. Oh folks can play at home and if you listen to that as a podcast or actually a by the movie and listen to the commentary track on the DVD yeah. There's there's a nice picture when we recorded that. There was a young the lady in the audience who asked a question. She also took a picture and her picture is used on one of the DVD menus. And so you can see would mike and I both look like Oh you poor people. Well thank you again guys for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening please head on over to the website projection booths podcast dot com. Where you can find out more about today's episode? He also find a link of a Patriot where he can make donation to the show every donation weekend house a projection projection booth take over the world uh-huh uh-huh And UP IN HAVE A. I've got scars that can't see I've drawn can't be stolen and everybody do those. Aw uh-huh with him nothing Aleph So makes my brain world myself down below And your okay. Zero shoot a chefs talk shows. Thank and and uh-huh yeah uh-huh In fact my bags last night preflight zero hour. Nine am such It's GONNA be Judge Joe. Find the man they. Yeah earning fuse here. Alot in touch with again. I'm not walk eight plates to raise a kid. In fact it's cold as hell veterans and Saddam. Draw the brings. Pomeroy forthing on this. I think it's GonNa. Peo Long brings on again. I on the EH Oh well Split you know that his critics review valet acted space back. Good jump roof you like Bowie. deep-space making Nichols get points. Do you use your tipple's telescopic on tonight'd transmitted ulta purchase nude freaky out bastards. You do you have one really funky sequence. He couldn't spacesuit belly or do you have several changes to this graph not experience this as jet blue receiving John's mission David Nicholl anti reading. Ed this is Yep Thursday. Aw the JAL Shindo Johnny the Mike Judge. ooh Is unknown after A. I'm thinking by Kenya. 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